[Ag-eq] Taming wild yeasties

Sat Dec 15 17:04:27 UTC 2018

Thanks Aaron.
The house drops down to around 65 at night, so I suspect that's what's
slowing down the process.
Your method sounds much more flour-intensive than mine.  I'll have to think
about that.
Good to know I don't have to be so careful about weighing out just the right
amount of flour.
Tracy

-----Original Message-----
From: Ag-eq [mailto:ag-eq-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Aaron Cannon via
Ag-eq
Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2018 11:24 AM
To: Agricultural and Equestrean Division List
Cc: Aaron Cannon
Subject: Re: [Ag-eq] Taming wild yeasties

There are about as many ways to start a starter as there are to make bread,
so I suspect that that method would probably work eventually. However, I
will say, based on all of my reading, that that is rather unusual.
Generally, the formula I like to use for starting starters is a simple 1:1
ratio. So on the first day, I'd mix 50 grams of flour with 50 grams of
water. Then I'd let that sit for 48 hours.

On day 3, and all subsequent days, I'd toss out roughly half the starter,
then add 50 grams of flour, and 50 grams of water.

I'd do the same on day 4, and day 5, and so on. You should have something
you can bake with between day 14 and day 21.

Since you've already got something going, I'd probably keep around 50 to 100
grams of starter, and feed with water and flour, 50 grams of each, and then
do the same the next day, and so on.

When making measurements when making starter, precision is not nearly as
important as it is when making bread. Rough estimates are likely fine. 

Summer or winter shouldn't really matter much, as long as you have a
kitchen, or another room where you can keep the starter, that stays around
70 degrees. a little warmer than that is probably fine, but if you get too
much cooler than that, it will probably just take a bit longer.

The concern I have with the method you are using is that you are trying to
establish a balance, and I worry that throwing out so much of the starter
each time is going to make that balance very difficult to reach.

The hardest part of creating a starter I think is sticking with it. There
will be days when it will smell terrible, like a bad batch of sauerkraut.
There will be days where it seems like nothing at all is happening, and you
are just wasting your time, energy, and flour. But eventually, if you
persist, you will eventually find yourself with something that smells
amazing, and does a great job with levening your loaves.

Good luck. Let me know if there is anything else I can help with, or if you
would like some additional resources to read. It's a fascinating and
delicious topic. :)

Aaron

--
This message was sent from a mobile device

> On Dec 15, 2018, at 09:04, Tracy Carcione via Ag-eq <ag-eq at nfbnet.org>
wrote:
> 
> Thanks Aaron.  How long did it take for your starter to get going?  Did
you
> start it in winter or summer?
> My book does say that the flour should have enough yeast to get started,
> with patience.
> The method I'm using is to combine 100 grams of water and 50 grams of
flour,
> stir them up good, and put the mix in a clean jar or bowl, cover it
loosely,
> and leave it on the counter for as long as it takes to smell/taste right.
> Then mix it up, take a tablespoonful, and add it to another 100 grams of
> water and 50 grams of flour.  Repeat until it actually leavens, and still
> tastes and smells good.
> Mine does taste and smell good, kind of like wine or beer with no hops.
> It's zingy, and not bitter.  But so far it doesn't leaven.
> I'm happy to keep trying, though.  It's only about half a cup of flour at
a
> time, so it's not a big investment.
> If you think it makes a difference, and mine doesn't take off in the next
> couple weeks, I'll hold off until the weather gets warmer.
> Tracy
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ag-eq [mailto:ag-eq-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Aaron Cannon
via
> Ag-eq
> Sent: Friday, December 14, 2018 7:03 PM
> To: Agricultural and Equestrean Division List
> Cc: Aaron Cannon
> Subject: Re: [Ag-eq] Taming wild yeasties
> 
> My wife and I have been making sourdough for years, and we love it!
> Unfortunately, the reality is that there is a lot of bad advice that's
been
> passed down through the years that just isn't true. One of the biggest
> misconceptions is that you can help jumpstart your starter by adding yeast
> from other sources, such as grapes, leaves or other things. I've even
heard
> of an old guy who swore that he kept his starter very healthy by spitting
in
> it every so often. :) The truth is that there are hundreds of thousands of
> types of yeast, and you are only interested in a very few kinds. Namely,
you
> want the ones that are adapted to living on wheat. You're also looking for
> lactobacilli, which is a type of bacteria that consumes the dead yeast,
and
> produces lactic acid. These acids are what give your bread the sour
flavor,
> and that also act as a type of antibiotic, to keep your culture from being
> invaded by less desirable microorganisms, such as mold and such. Anyway,
the
> best place to find this 
> type of bacteria and yeast is on the plants they are adapted for, I.E.
> wheat/flour.
> 
> They did a study a while back, where they heated the flour to kill off all
> the yeast on it. They wanted to see if the yeast in sourdough starter were
> caught from the air, or already found on the grain. The result was that
they
> were unable to get a starter started from the staralized flour, but
feeding
> that already staralized flour to an existing starter showed no ill
effects.
> 
> I'd be happy to mail you some of our starter. It can sometimes be easier
to
> start out with an established starter, and then try creating your own,
once
> you know what healthy starter smells/feels like.
> 
> Can you tell me more about the process you used to create your own
starter?
> Perhaps I can offer some tips.
> 
> Once you get a starter going, unless you plan to make bread with it often,
> you should probably keep it in the fridge. Keeping it on the counter
> requires at least daily feedings, whereas with starter kept in the fridge,
> you are fine with once every week or two.
> 
> Good luck. Sourdough is amazing!
> 
> Aaron
> 
> --
> This message was sent from a mobile device
> 
> 
>> On Dec 14, 2018, at 14:06, dogwood farm via Ag-eq <ag-eq at nfbnet.org>
> wrote:
>> 
>> Tracy,
>> 
>> I don't know much about wild yeast except when it comes to fruit wines
>> and some beers that are brewed in Germany.  However, reference yeast
>> starters for breads, you need to put your starter in a warm place and
>> covered.  Matt puts his starter in a container with an airtight lid.
>> This traps the heat from the yeast as it firments and that also helps
>> keep it warm.  His starters, which have different names depending on
>> the process and what kind of bread he is making.
>> 
>> Susan
>> dogwoodfarm62 at gmail.com
>> 
>>> On 12/14/18, Tracy Carcione via Ag-eq <ag-eq at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>> I'm having some fun, running experiments in microbiology, aka creating
my
>>> own sourdough starter, trying to convince wild yeasts to come play with
> me.
>>> 
>>> I have a guidebook, The Sullivan Street Bakery cookbook.  It describes
> well
>>> how the starter should smell and taste when it's ready to use.  I
thought
>>> mine could be ready to go, but it didn't actually leaven, so I added
some
>>> store-bought yeast and made bread anyway.  Even so, it added a nice
taste
>>> to
>>> the bread.
>>> 
>>> The book says that, when the yeasts have done their thing, there will be
> a
>>> foamy residue of flour on the side of the jar.  I thought I could feel
>>> that,
>>> but maybe I'm mistaken.
>>> 
>>> The book also says that I could catch more yeast by getting some off
> leaves
>>> in the garden, like kale or cabbage leaves.  It says the yeast is a
>>> powdery,
>>> water-resistant layer on the underside of a leaf, but I'm not sure how
to
>>> tell that from dirt or whatever.  Not to mention that most of my leaves
>>> have
>>> now frozen.  I'm sure the cold isn't helping my experiments, even
inside.
>>> 
>>> However, it's a small investment in time and flour, so I'll keep
carrying
>>> on.  According to the book, I can create a starter that is to my taste,
> and
>>> not as sour and sharp as the stuff sold commercially.
>>> 
>>> Tracy
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
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