[Art_beyond_sight_theory_and_research] Movies for the blind

Wed Dec 9 21:15:39 UTC 2009

Hi, Listers

I'm finding this thread of particular interest as I am a completely blind 
but formerly sighted movie fan with a master's in media studies. I know the 
cultural attitudes toward blind people's ability to appreciate film and tv 
is pretty shallow at times, and I often read people on public forums and 
blogs making jokes about what a funny idea it is that blind people might be 
able to get anything out of visual media, so I understand how frustrating 
and dismissive those kind of comments can feel.

In my experience, however, most blind people are very aware of how visual 
media is different, that it involves more immediacy in the narrative, along 
with the presence of costume, setting, costume, sound effects, and 
soundtracks, usually on a much more detailed level than other media, such as 
ebooks. Even when one can't access a spoken description, one can often 
deduce or imagine what those elements of the story are like. Also, the best 
actors are able to convey expression through voice and, I believe, physical 
expression which manage to come through in the audio of film.

Most of all, however, even if one is blind, there is usually no lack of 
description, plot synopsis, and many other details, which are available in 
trailers, reviews, discussions, online movie transcripts, TVTropes.com, 
merchandising, fan fiction, idle comments, whatever, and a lot of that gets 
absorbed into the viewing experience. I don't believe a blind viewer's 
experience of a movie or tv show is ever as thin as many people assume, 
because if it were, there wouldn't be so many blind people with televisions 
and subscriptions to NetFlix. Just the amount of information we absorb 
through our cultural contacts with other people means many of us already 
carry around a lot of info about these media forms, and that's the aspect to 
this subject which I find so amazing that so many people overlook it: our 
knowledge of visual media is just like the way many of us could sing the 
question and answer format to "Jeopardy" or the theme song to "Gilligan's 
Island"--media is our atmosphere and we absorb it like water.

Kes

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mike Sivill" <mike.sivill at viewplus.com>
To: "'Valerie'" <descriptionto at gmail.com>
Cc: <artbeyondsightmuseums at nfbnet.org>; <valerie at moviesfortheblind.com>; 
<art_beyond_sight_educators at nfbnet.org>; 
<art_beyond_sight_advocacy at nfbnet.org>; 
<art_beyond_sight_learning_tools at nfbnet.org>; 
<accessibleimage at freelists.org>; "'Art Beyond Sight Theory and Research'" 
<art_beyond_sight_theory_and_research at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, December 09, 2009 2:14 PM
Subject: Re: [Art_beyond_sight_theory_and_research] Movies for the blind

> Hi all,
> Thanks for responding, Valerie, I see your point. You do say listening to 
> an
> audio described film is like listening to an ebook, which does make sense.
> The act of listening is similar in any case. It just bites me when
> generalizations are made that imply that blind people are participating in
> such a different manner that we aren't even actually participating in the
> same event. I would say that most blind people would say that they "watch"
> TV or movies even though it is listening alone, but that not one blind
> person would ever say that they 'watched' a book. I know it seems like
> semantics but I feel it is important to make certain distinctions.
> Anyway, I'm glad the announcement was posted. I had not heard of the 
> movies
> for the blind website and the descriptions there are really well done. I 
> did
> enjoy "watching" some of the TV episodes and hope that category continues 
> to
> expand. I also look forward to seeing further  discussion. What do other
> people think? Are we in our right to say we're "watching?" Maybe even when
> the video portion is not present? I watch TV at home through the sound
> system without turning my TV on half the time too.
> Mike
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Valerie [mailto:descriptionto at gmail.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, December 09, 2009 10:32 AM
> To: Mike Sivill
> Cc: Art Beyond Sight Theory and Research; accessibleimage at freelists.org;
> art_beyond_sight_educators at nfbnet.org; 
> art_beyond_sight_advocacy at nfbnet.org;
> art_beyond_sight_learning_tools at nfbnet.org;
> artbeyondsightmuseums at nfbnet.org; valerie at moviesfortheblind.com
> Subject: Re: [Art_beyond_sight_theory_and_research] Movies for the blind
>
> Hello Mike and everyone.
>
> I'm sorry to be crashing, but Mike cc'd me on this, so I feel obligated to
> respond to everyone who read it. If there have been other responses I have
> not had a chance to look at yet, having just received this, please forgive
> me for any redundancy.
>
> My two main points to respond to Mike are that I merely say people can
> listen to Movies for the Blind *like* an audiobook, and that he gives my
> abilities too much credit. :-)
>
> The About page of Movies for the Blind is intended for people who have no
> prior knowledge of description and the many terms we can apply to it 
> ("audio
> description", "described video", "descriptive video", etc.). While I refer
> to DVS because it is one of the higher-profile describers in North 
> America,
> "descriptive video" is not exactly what Movies For the Blind has most of 
> the
> time. With a few exceptions, MFTB is audio-only, and the audience does not
> experience it with video, which would have additional benefits for people
> who aren't totally blind, people with vision-impairments consuming media
> with friends or family with sight, and sighted people which include those
> learning a language or developing literacy.
>
> I think everybody knows what an audiobook is, so I use it as a point of
> comparison. Under the definition I'm suggesting (though perhaps not 
> strongly
> enough), an audiobook is a book adapted into audio form so a person can
> listen to it without looking at text - walking along the street, driving 
> in
> a car, doing household chores, or perhaps resting with eyes closed
> somewhere. This was the only point of comparison I wished to make: that 
> MFTB
> is also an audio adaptation of another form of media (in this case, tv or
> movies) which can be listened to without looking at a screen. It speaks to
> the purpose of creating something that anyone with hearing can enjoy
> regardless of sight, with no special adjustments necessary.
>
> While different audiobooks have differing levels of production which 
> assist
> the listener's imagination (some are just someone reading, others have
> readers cast for their expression consistent to the tone of the book, 
> others
> have readers adopting different character voices and set in front of 
> music),
> Mike is correct that Movies For the Blind does fill in more detail. 
> However,
> a perennial point of discussion among those who write and listen to
> description is how much to describe and what to describe. There are
> different schools of thought on that, but no matter how much we debate it,
> the fact remains that each describer is limited by time (even when
> description is expanded outside of the original's real time) and his/her 
> own
> perspective. No matter how hard we try, we will never, ever be able to
> describe everything, we will never evoke every visual cue for which an 
> image
> is intended, and we will never look at a scene in exactly the same way. We
> will never be a complete substitute for the sight someone does not have.
>
> In my opinion, the describer's purpose is to help tell a story. Only 
> tell -
> not show. A story is nothing without the contribution of the audience, and
> all the creators involved serve that audience.  The words I choose are
> essentially lines for the listener to colour in between (or outside, if
> he/she wants) to give the story its ultimate life. And while I like to 
> think
> I'm pretty good at what I do, the listener's imagination still has a lot 
> of
> work to do (hopefully enjoyable) to make it worth anything.
>
> Thanks very much for getting through this. :-) Thanks to Lisa for 
> mentioning
> MFTB, and thanks to Mike for his opinion and for bringing this to my
> attention.
>
> Peace,
> Valerie
> -- 
> Movies For the Blind
> http://moviesfortheblind.com/
>
>
>
> On Wed, Dec 9, 2009 at 11:42 AM, Mike Sivill <mike.sivill at viewplus.com>
> wrote:
>
>
> I really don't agree that descriptive video is like an audio book.
> Listening
> to action and dialog going on is very different from reading a book
> and
> using your own imagination to form the voices and images in your
> head.
> Just my humble opinion, they are two entirely separate experiences.
> Mike
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: art_beyond_sight_theory_and_research-bounces at nfbnet.org
> [mailto:art_beyond_sight_theory_and_research-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf
> Of Lisa Yayla
> Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 11:51 PM
> To: 'accessibleimage at freelists.org';
> 'art_beyond_sight_educators at nfbnet.org';
> 'art_beyond_sight_advocacy at nfbnet.org';
> 'art_beyond_sight_learning_tools at nfbnet.org';
> 'artbeyondsightmuseums at nfbnet.org';
> 'art_beyond_sight_theory_and_research at nfbnet.org';
> 'artbeyondsightmuseums at nfbnet.org'
> Subject: [Art_beyond_sight_theory_and_research] Movies for the blind
>
> Got this tip from another list
>
>
>
> http://moviesfortheblind.com/
>
>
>
> from site
> What is all this?
> Well, this is a podcast of public-domain films where I've added
> something
> called "audio description," which is additional narration telling
> people who
> are vision-impaired important visual elements of a show as they
> happen,
> helping the film tell its story. This means everyone can listen to
> it like
> an audiobook.
>
> To learn more about the history of description and where else it is
> used
> (hint: quite a few places but not enough!), check out the wikipedia
> articles
> on the Descriptive Video Service and audio description.
>
> Have any questions or suggestions? Email
> valerie at moviesfortheblind.com<mailto:valerie at moviesfortheblind.com>.
>
> Regards,
>
> Lisa
>
>
> -Scanned by Exchange Hosted Services-
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