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<DIV><FONT face=Calibri>you know, I'm glad that I joined up with this list. Not
just because I'm excited about the prospect of one day owning one of these
fassinating new machines but also because I'm learning so much and getting so
many good ideas from other blind people like myself who know more about what
goes into these machines than I ever will.</FONT></DIV>
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<DIV style="BACKGROUND: #f5f5f5">
<DIV style="font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A
title=autonomousvehicles@nfbnet.org
href="mailto:autonomousvehicles@nfbnet.org">Angela Daniel via
AutonomousVehicles</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, June 6, 2018 1:30 PM</DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> <A title=autonomousvehicles@nfbnet.org
href="mailto:autonomousvehicles@nfbnet.org">autonomous Vehicles Discussion</A>
</DIV>
<DIV><B>Cc:</B> <A title=msangela48@gmail.com
href="mailto:msangela48@gmail.com">Angela Daniel</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> Re: [AutonomousVehicles] hello from a very
interestedandexcitednfbmember</DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>I totally share your enthusiasm. Can't wait to own my own car. Or be a part
of a community car that provide service to my family. For sure autonomous
vehicles will change everything. Policing, insurance, and no more need for
parking lots because the cars will constantly be picking up or dropping off the
next person. So happy to be a member of NFB who are on the forefront of
accessibility issues regarding the blind. We are moving from a Transportation
era, to a people moving era.
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Best regards</DIV>
<DIV>Angela</DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=gmail_extra><BR>
<DIV class=gmail_quote>On Jun 6, 2018 12:52 PM, "Donald Winiecki via
AutonomousVehicles" <<A
href="mailto:autonomousvehicles@nfbnet.org">autonomousvehicles@nfbnet.org</A>>
wrote:<BR type="attribution">
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yes! Accessibility is essential across the spectrum. <BR></DIV>
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size=2>_don<BR></FONT></SPAN></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV><BR></DIV><BR>
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<DIV dir=ltr>On Wed, Jun 6, 2018 at 10:45 AM Ali via AutonomousVehicles <<A
href="mailto:autonomousvehicles@nfbnet.org"
target=_blank>autonomousvehicles@nfbnet.org</A><WBR>> wrote:<BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=gmail_quote
style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid">Something
that should be kept in mind is that the interface <BR>should be able to be
voice controlled by the blind person.<BR><BR>Ali<BR><BR> ----- Original
Message -----<BR>From: Donald Winiecki via AutonomousVehicles <BR><<A
href="mailto:autonomousvehicles@nfbnet.org"
target=_blank>autonomousvehicles@nfbnet.org</A><BR>To: <A
href="mailto:autonomousvehicles@nfbnet.org"
target=_blank>autonomousvehicles@nfbnet.org</A><BR>Date sent: Wed, 6 Jun
2018 10:25:24 -0600<BR>Subject: Re: [AutonomousVehicles] hello from a very
<BR>interestedandexcitednfbmember<BR><BR>Yes. A blind individual could not
address a situation visually.<BR><BR>However, if the car were narrating
things that it was 'seeing' <BR>and how it<BR>was making decisions, the
driver would have more information <BR>about what is<BR>happening. This
information might be somewhat analogous to what a <BR>sighed<BR>driver would
have -- sort of like what we get with a screen <BR>reader for
your<BR>computer. In some circumstances, I can imagine a self-driving
<BR>car would<BR>require decisions to be made by the driver, and if the car
was <BR>continually<BR>updating the driver with relevant information he or
she could <BR>respond and<BR>command the car, rather than expecting that the
car is making all <BR>the<BR>decisions. (I would expect that there
would be settings that <BR>allow the car<BR>to be more or less `chatty` in
this regard. Some individuals <BR>would want<BR>lots of information, while
others would want a functional minimum <BR>of<BR>information from the
car.<BR><BR>For example, if you are driving to work in the morning and
<BR>encounter heavy<BR>traffic or a stoppage, the car could tell you this
and ask for <BR>your<BR>decision on whether to continue the same route, or
offer one of <BR>several<BR>alternative routes. You would have to tell
the car what to do.<BR><BR>Similarly, in the event of any accident of any
sort, the car <BR>would have to<BR>be able to tell the driver what has
happened and advise the <BR>driver on<BR>options, as well as automatically
contacting relevant <BR>authorities.<BR><BR>What I am getting at, is the
idea that no matter who is <BR>`driving,` the<BR>human will still have to be
in the loop somehow, and to be a <BR>responsible<BR>agent in some
circumstances. So far this has not been emphasized <BR>in
the<BR>development of autonomous vehicles, but I will say that I expect
<BR>this to<BR>become an important feature in the future.<BR><BR>Designing
an interface that permits these things will absolutely <BR>require<BR>active
participation from drivers who are blind or
<BR>visually-impaired.<BR><BR>_don<BR>​<BR>​<BR>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<BR>Don
Winiecki, Ed.D., Ph.D.<BR>*Professor of Ethics & Morality in
Professional Practice*<BR>Boise State University, College of
Engineering<BR>E-mail: <A href="mailto:dwiniecki@boisestate.edu"
target=_blank>dwiniecki@boisestate.edu</A><BR>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~d​<BR><BR><BR><BR>On
Wed, Jun 6, 2018 at 10:02 AM Ali via AutonomousVehicles <<BR><A
href="mailto:autonomousvehicles@nfbnet.org"
target=_blank>autonomousvehicles@nfbnet.org</A>> wrote:<BR><BR> If
the systems were ever to require the driver to take control,<BR> this
would be impossible for a blind person to safely
do.<BR><BR> Ali<BR><BR> ----- Original Message
-----<BR> From: Donald Winiecki via AutonomousVehicles<BR> <<A
href="mailto:autonomousvehicles@nfbnet.org"
target=_blank>autonomousvehicles@nfbnet.<WBR>org</A><BR> To: <A
href="mailto:autonomousvehicles@nfbnet.org"
target=_blank>autonomousvehicles@nfbnet.org</A><BR> Date sent: Wed, 6
Jun 2018 08:25:44 -0600<BR> Subject: Re: [AutonomousVehicles] hello
from a very interested<BR> andexcitednfbmember<BR><BR> As a
faculty member in a College of Engineering, my
primary<BR> responsibilities are in the areas of ethics and morality
in<BR> engineering.<BR> Autonomous vehicles are a principal
interest of mine.<BR><BR> All of the crashes of autonomous vehicles
that have been<BR> publicized, have<BR> been as a result of
failures not of single systems, but in the<BR> intersection<BR> of
systems in the vehicles. In the case of the Uber crash in<BR> Arizona
that<BR> killed a cyclist/pedestrian, the LIDAR (laser radar) 'saw'
the<BR> person early<BR> enough to brake and to steer around
her. However, the system<BR> that 'makes<BR> sense of' what
the LIDAR detects, was switched to a mode that<BR> delayed
such<BR> a reaction -- it was in a very conservative mode where the
car's<BR> systems<BR> would have had to be closer to 100% certain
of what was being<BR> detected by<BR> the LIDAR before
automatically responding.<BR><BR> In the TESLA crashes, early analysis
of the cars' black-boxes<BR> indicates<BR> that systems were
attempting to alert the drivers to take
<BR>control<BR> because<BR> the cars' systems were detecting
situations that they were not<BR> designed to<BR> handle. In these
cases, the handoff of control from car to human<BR> driver
was<BR> missed.<BR><BR> Looking outside the cars and their
technology, Arizona has<BR> established the<BR> most lax
regulation on testing of autonomous vehicles, of any<BR> state
that<BR> allows such testing. It was as a side-effect of this
lax<BR> regulation that<BR> Uber was able to get away with only
one safety-driver in the<BR> vehicle.<BR> Other states that allow
testing of autonomous vehicles on public<BR> roadways<BR> require
two safety-drivers (one behind the wheel ready to take<BR> control,
and<BR> one who monitors the car's systems in real time). Uber's
history<BR> of<BR> business practices that take large risks may
have been a<BR> contributing<BR> factor somehow.<BR><BR> In
the cases of Tesla crashes, we know that marketing
<BR>information<BR> has<BR> heavily hyped what Tesla calls its
'auto pilot' autonomous<BR> driving mode.<BR> There have even been
television commercials with Elon Musk<BR> driving/riding a<BR> car
with his hands out the window, yelling and boasting of
its<BR> autonomous<BR> capabilities. Compare this with the safety
information that <BR>comes<BR> with the<BR> cars that cautions
drivers to not treat 'auto pilot' as a
safe<BR> autonomous<BR> mode.<BR><BR> A lot of what we are
seeing with autonomous vehicles has to do<BR> with the<BR> fact
that the companies and consumers are not necessarily<BR> prepared to
deal<BR> with the intersection of so many technical and social
systems<BR> that we are<BR> suddenly faced with. In fact, no
engineering innovation is ever<BR> 'only<BR> technical'. Every
engineering innovation pushes small or large<BR> impacts on<BR> us
in terms of how we know and behave in the world. Those
who<BR> adapt to the<BR> new limits of technologies are able to
benefit, but those who do<BR> not<BR> understand those limits will
run the risk of the failure of
<BR>these<BR> multiple<BR> systems.<BR><BR> There is
absolutely no question in my mind that successful<BR> development
in<BR> the technologies of autonomous vehicles will occur.
However,<BR> successful<BR> social adaptation may not be so
clearly possible for everyone.<BR> This is why<BR> every
stakeholder group -- including and perhaps especially
<BR>those<BR> with<BR> visual impairments that prevent them from
getting a driver's<BR> license<BR> currently -- has to be active
in the latter. This listserv is a<BR> touchpoint<BR> for all
of us who are stakeholders in this particular way.
Your<BR> involvement locally, in your State policy-making branches,
and<BR> even more<BR> broadly, is very
needed!<BR><BR> _don<BR><BR><BR><BR> On Wed, Jun 6, 2018 at 7:50
AM Ali via AutonomousVehicles <<BR> <A
href="mailto:autonomousvehicles@nfbnet.org"
target=_blank>autonomousvehicles@nfbnet.org</A><WBR>>
wrote:<BR><BR> Probably just because I'm extremely afraid of accidents
LOL.<BR><BR> ----- Original Message -----<BR> From: Daniel
Perry via AutonomousVehicles<BR> <<A
href="mailto:autonomousvehicles@nfbnet.org"
target=_blank>autonomousvehicles@nfbnet.org</A><BR> To: "autonomous
Vehicles Discussion"<BR> <<A
href="mailto:autonomousvehicles@nfbnet.org"
target=_blank>autonomousvehicles@nfbnet.org</A><BR> Date sent: Wed, 6
Jun 2018 08:18:18 -0400<BR> Subject: Re: [AutonomousVehicles] hello
from a very interested<BR> and excitednfbmember<BR><BR> me too,
but I've been told not to wurry since everyone seems to<BR> be
behind<BR> them. I think the crashes are all just a part of the
process<BR> morbid as that<BR> sounds.<BR><BR>
------------------------------<WBR>--------------------<BR> From: "Ali
via AutonomousVehicles"<BR> <<A
href="mailto:autonomousvehicles@nfbnet.org"
target=_blank>autonomousvehicles@nfbnet.<WBR>org</A><BR> Sent:
Tuesday, June 5, 2018 11:13 PM<BR> To: "autonomous Vehicles
Discussion"<BR> <<A href="mailto:autonomousvehicles@nfbnet.org"
target=_blank>autonomousvehicles@nfbnet.org</A><BR> Cc: "Ali" <<A
href="mailto:aliherky@gmail.com"
target=_blank>aliherky@gmail.com</A><BR> Subject: Re:
[AutonomousVehicles] hello from a very interested<BR> and
excited<BR> nfbmember<BR><BR> I have high hopes for the
future, but right now am too worried<BR> about the<BR>
multiple crashes that have been had.<BR><BR>
Ali<BR><BR> ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: Daniel Perry via AutonomousVehicles<BR> <<A
href="mailto:autonomousvehicles@nfbnet.org"
target=_blank>autonomousvehicles@nfbnet.org</A><BR> To: <<A
href="mailto:autonomousvehicles@nfbnet.org"
target=_blank>autonomousvehicles@nfbnet.org</A><BR> Date sent:
Tue, 5 Jun 2018 14:59:30 -0400<BR> Subject: [AutonomousVehicles]
hello from a very interested and<BR> excited<BR>
nfbmember<BR><BR> Hello everyone, my name is Daniel Perry
and I found this list<BR> and<BR> immediately signed up
because I'm extremely excited about the<BR> prospect of<BR>
autonomous vehicles being a reality as well as we the
totally<BR> blind being<BR> able to use them. I can't wait
to own one as soon as they're<BR> afordable<BR> enough for
your average blind person to purchase and own. I'll<BR> be
very<BR> excited to see how Waymo progresses after its launch
later on<BR> this year.<BR> What's the latest in our
efforts to make these vehicles<BR> accessible to the<BR>
blind? have a wonderful day and I look forward to hearing
from<BR> you soon.<BR><BR>
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