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<DIV><FONT face=Calibri>you know, I am learning so much from everyone on this
list about things that need to go into these vehicles to make them work for us
and this is all so wonderful honestly I'm learning a lot. My next question is
what can I, Daniel Perry do to make my voice heard and with whom may I speak
about accessibility solutions to put in the vehicles and what ideas can I give?
let me have some information please and Donald, you could probably come in very
handy here, but what can I do to help be one of the vocal blind people who can
help make sure that these vehicles work for all of us even those of us who are
totally blind. Have a wonderful day and I look forward to hearing from you
soon.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt Tahoma">
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV style="BACKGROUND: #f5f5f5">
<DIV style="font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A
title=autonomousvehicles@nfbnet.org
href="mailto:autonomousvehicles@nfbnet.org">Donald Winiecki via
AutonomousVehicles</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, June 6, 2018 12:25 PM</DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> <A title=autonomousvehicles@nfbnet.org
href="mailto:autonomousvehicles@nfbnet.org">autonomousvehicles@nfbnet.org</A>
</DIV>
<DIV><B>Cc:</B> <A title=dwiniecki@handid.org
href="mailto:dwiniecki@handid.org">Donald Winiecki</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> Re: [AutonomousVehicles] hello from a very interested
andexcitednfbmember</DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr>
<DIV class=gmail_default
style="FONT-SIZE: small; FONT-FAMILY: arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Yes. A blind
individual could not address a situation visually. <BR></DIV>
<DIV class=gmail_default
style="FONT-SIZE: small; FONT-FAMILY: arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><BR></DIV>
<DIV class=gmail_default
style="FONT-SIZE: small; FONT-FAMILY: arial,helvetica,sans-serif">However, if
the car were narrating things that it was 'seeing' and how it was making
decisions, the driver would have more information about what is happening. This
information might be somewhat analogous to what a sighed driver would have --
sort of like what we get with a screen reader for your computer. In some
circumstances, I can imagine a self-driving car would require decisions to be
made by the driver, and if the car was continually updating the driver with
relevant information he or she could respond and command the car, rather than
expecting that the car is making all the decisions. (I would expect that
there would be settings that allow the car to be more or less `chatty` in this
regard. Some individuals would want lots of information, while others would want
a functional minimum of information from the car.<BR></DIV>
<DIV class=gmail_default
style="FONT-SIZE: small; FONT-FAMILY: arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><BR></DIV>
<DIV class=gmail_default
style="FONT-SIZE: small; FONT-FAMILY: arial,helvetica,sans-serif">For example,
if you are driving to work in the morning and encounter heavy traffic or a
stoppage, the car could tell you this and ask for your decision on whether to
continue the same route, or offer one of several alternative routes. You
would have to tell the car what to do.</DIV>
<DIV class=gmail_default
style="FONT-SIZE: small; FONT-FAMILY: arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><BR></DIV>
<DIV class=gmail_default
style="FONT-SIZE: small; FONT-FAMILY: arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Similarly, in
the event of any accident of any sort, the car would have to be able to tell the
driver what has happened and advise the driver on options, as well as
automatically contacting relevant authorities.</DIV>
<DIV class=gmail_default
style="FONT-SIZE: small; FONT-FAMILY: arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><BR></DIV>
<DIV class=gmail_default
style="FONT-SIZE: small; FONT-FAMILY: arial,helvetica,sans-serif">What I am
getting at, is the idea that no matter who is `driving,` the human will still
have to be in the loop somehow, and to be a responsible agent in some
circumstances. So far this has not been emphasized in the development of
autonomous vehicles, but I will say that I expect this to become an important
feature in the future.<BR></DIV>
<DIV class=gmail_default
style="FONT-SIZE: small; FONT-FAMILY: arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><BR></DIV>
<DIV class=gmail_default
style="FONT-SIZE: small; FONT-FAMILY: arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Designing an
interface that permits these things will absolutely require active participation
from drivers who are blind or visually-impaired.<BR></DIV>
<DIV class=gmail_default
style="FONT-SIZE: small; FONT-FAMILY: arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><BR
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<DIV dir=ltr><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma,sans-serif"><FONT
size=2>_don</FONT></SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma,sans-serif"></SPAN><BR><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma,sans-serif"></SPAN>
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<DIV><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma,sans-serif"><FONT size=2>
<DIV style="DISPLAY: inline">
<DIV style="DISPLAY: inline"></DIV>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<BR>Don Winiecki,
Ed.D., Ph.D.<BR><I>Professor of Ethics & Morality in Professional
Practice</I><BR>Boise State University, College of Engineering<BR>E-mail: <A
href="mailto:dwiniecki@boisestate.edu"
target=_blank>dwiniecki@boisestate.edu</A><BR>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~d</DIV><BR></FONT></SPAN></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV><BR><BR>
<DIV class=gmail_quote>
<DIV dir=ltr>On Wed, Jun 6, 2018 at 10:02 AM Ali via AutonomousVehicles <<A
href="mailto:autonomousvehicles@nfbnet.org">autonomousvehicles@nfbnet.org</A>>
wrote:<BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=gmail_quote
style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid">If
the systems were ever to require the driver to take control, <BR>this would be
impossible for a blind person to safely do.<BR><BR>Ali<BR><BR> -----
Original Message -----<BR>From: Donald Winiecki via AutonomousVehicles
<BR><<A href="mailto:autonomousvehicles@nfbnet.org"
target=_blank>autonomousvehicles@nfbnet.org</A><BR>To: <A
href="mailto:autonomousvehicles@nfbnet.org"
target=_blank>autonomousvehicles@nfbnet.org</A><BR>Date sent: Wed, 6 Jun 2018
08:25:44 -0600<BR>Subject: Re: [AutonomousVehicles] hello from a very
interested <BR>andexcitednfbmember<BR><BR>As a faculty member in a College of
Engineering, my primary<BR>responsibilities are in the areas of ethics and
morality in <BR>engineering.<BR>Autonomous vehicles are a principal interest
of mine.<BR><BR>All of the crashes of autonomous vehicles that have been
<BR>publicized, have<BR>been as a result of failures not of single systems,
but in the <BR>intersection<BR>of systems in the vehicles. In the case of the
Uber crash in <BR>Arizona that<BR>killed a cyclist/pedestrian, the LIDAR
(laser radar) 'saw' the <BR>person early<BR>enough to brake and to steer
around her. However, the system <BR>that 'makes<BR>sense of' what the
LIDAR detects, was switched to a mode that <BR>delayed such<BR>a reaction --
it was in a very conservative mode where the car's <BR>systems<BR>would have
had to be closer to 100% certain of what was being <BR>detected by<BR>the
LIDAR before automatically responding.<BR><BR>In the TESLA crashes, early
analysis of the cars' black-boxes <BR>indicates<BR>that systems were
attempting to alert the drivers to take control <BR>because<BR>the cars'
systems were detecting situations that they were not <BR>designed
to<BR>handle. In these cases, the handoff of control from car to human
<BR>driver was<BR>missed.<BR><BR>Looking outside the cars and their
technology, Arizona has <BR>established the<BR>most lax regulation on testing
of autonomous vehicles, of any <BR>state that<BR>allows such testing. It was
as a side-effect of this lax <BR>regulation that<BR>Uber was able to get away
with only one safety-driver in the <BR>vehicle.<BR>Other states that allow
testing of autonomous vehicles on public <BR>roadways<BR>require two
safety-drivers (one behind the wheel ready to take <BR>control, and<BR>one who
monitors the car's systems in real time). Uber's history <BR>of<BR>business
practices that take large risks may have been a <BR>contributing<BR>factor
somehow.<BR><BR>In the cases of Tesla crashes, we know that marketing
information <BR>has<BR>heavily hyped what Tesla calls its 'auto pilot'
autonomous <BR>driving mode.<BR>There have even been television commercials
with Elon Musk <BR>driving/riding a<BR>car with his hands out the window,
yelling and boasting of its <BR>autonomous<BR>capabilities. Compare this with
the safety information that comes <BR>with the<BR>cars that cautions drivers
to not treat 'auto pilot' as a safe <BR>autonomous<BR>mode.<BR><BR>A lot of
what we are seeing with autonomous vehicles has to do <BR>with the<BR>fact
that the companies and consumers are not necessarily <BR>prepared to
deal<BR>with the intersection of so many technical and social systems <BR>that
we are<BR>suddenly faced with. In fact, no engineering innovation is
ever <BR>'only<BR>technical'. Every engineering innovation pushes small or
large <BR>impacts on<BR>us in terms of how we know and behave in the
world. Those who <BR>adapt to the<BR>new limits of technologies are able
to benefit, but those who do <BR>not<BR>understand those limits will run the
risk of the failure of these <BR>multiple<BR>systems.<BR><BR>There is
absolutely no question in my mind that successful <BR>development in<BR>the
technologies of autonomous vehicles will occur. However,
<BR>successful<BR>social adaptation may not be so clearly possible for
everyone. <BR>This is why<BR>every stakeholder group -- including and perhaps
especially those <BR>with<BR>visual impairments that prevent them from getting
a driver's <BR>license<BR>currently -- has to be active in the latter.
This listserv is a <BR>touchpoint<BR>for all of us who are stakeholders in
this particular way. Your<BR>involvement locally, in your State
policy-making branches, and <BR>even more<BR>broadly, is very
needed!<BR><BR>_don<BR><BR><BR><BR>On Wed, Jun 6, 2018 at 7:50 AM Ali via
AutonomousVehicles <<BR><A href="mailto:autonomousvehicles@nfbnet.org"
target=_blank>autonomousvehicles@nfbnet.org</A>>
wrote:<BR><BR> Probably just because I'm extremely afraid of accidents
LOL.<BR><BR> ----- Original Message -----<BR> From: Daniel Perry
via AutonomousVehicles<BR> <<A
href="mailto:autonomousvehicles@nfbnet.org"
target=_blank>autonomousvehicles@nfbnet.org</A><BR> To: "autonomous
Vehicles Discussion"<BR> <<A
href="mailto:autonomousvehicles@nfbnet.org"
target=_blank>autonomousvehicles@nfbnet.org</A><BR> Date sent: Wed, 6 Jun
2018 08:18:18 -0400<BR> Subject: Re: [AutonomousVehicles] hello from a
very interested<BR> and excitednfbmember<BR><BR> me too, but I've
been told not to wurry since everyone seems to<BR> be
behind<BR> them. I think the crashes are all just a part of the
process<BR> morbid as
that<BR> sounds.<BR><BR> --------------------------------------------------<BR> From:
"Ali via AutonomousVehicles" <BR><<A
href="mailto:autonomousvehicles@nfbnet.org"
target=_blank>autonomousvehicles@nfbnet.org</A><BR> Sent: Tuesday, June
5, 2018 11:13 PM<BR> To: "autonomous Vehicles Discussion"<BR> <<A
href="mailto:autonomousvehicles@nfbnet.org"
target=_blank>autonomousvehicles@nfbnet.org</A><BR> Cc: "Ali" <<A
href="mailto:aliherky@gmail.com"
target=_blank>aliherky@gmail.com</A><BR> Subject: Re:
[AutonomousVehicles] hello from a very interested<BR> and
excited<BR> nfbmember<BR><BR> I have high hopes for the future, but
right now am too worried<BR> about the<BR> multiple crashes that
have been had.<BR><BR> Ali<BR><BR> ----- Original Message
-----<BR> From: Daniel Perry via AutonomousVehicles<BR> <<A
href="mailto:autonomousvehicles@nfbnet.org"
target=_blank>autonomousvehicles@nfbnet.org</A><BR> To: <<A
href="mailto:autonomousvehicles@nfbnet.org"
target=_blank>autonomousvehicles@nfbnet.org</A><BR> Date sent: Tue, 5
Jun 2018 14:59:30 -0400<BR> Subject: [AutonomousVehicles] hello from a
very interested and<BR> excited<BR> nfbmember<BR><BR> Hello
everyone, my name is Daniel Perry and I found this list<BR> and<BR>
immediately signed up because I'm extremely excited about
the<BR> prospect of<BR> autonomous vehicles being a reality as well
as we the totally<BR> blind being<BR> able to use them. I can't
wait to own one as soon as they're<BR> afordable<BR> enough for
your average blind person to purchase and own. I'll<BR> be very<BR>
excited to see how Waymo progresses after its launch later on<BR> this
year.<BR> What's the latest in our efforts to make these
vehicles<BR> accessible to the<BR> blind? have a wonderful day and
I look forward to hearing from<BR> you soon.<BR><BR>
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