[Blind-international-students] meeting minutes
Philip So
pcs2001 at caa.columbia.edu
Mon Nov 1 07:05:28 UTC 2010
Jan, you are assuming that serving people whose vision loss is not
"significant" enough will take away resources from people who are
totally blind. This is not the case as illustrated below. This is not
a zero-sum game but actually a win-win situation. Stating in our
mission statement that we only serve people with significant vision
loss may actually hurt the very people we want to serve.
Example:
Suppose our group has $100 to spend. Suppose at a school for the blind
in China there are 100 totally blind students, as well as 100 students
who are studying at this school simply because they lack regular
glasses and therefore cannot read writings on the board or read books.
All 200 students share one computer at school. If I ask you to
increase the blind students' access to the computer at this school
with your $100, how would you achieve this?
Under the mission of serving only those with "significant" vision
loss, we could only assist the totally blind students. But $100 can't
even buy us one computer equipped with JAWS. Therefore, we cannot
improve the situation unless we ask for donation. Basically we would
not be able to achieve our objective on our own.
But this doesn't have to be the case. On the other hand, if our
mission does not say "significant" vision loss, then the smart way
would be to spend the $100 to make a huge impact for the totally blind
students by purchasing 100 pairs of glasses, at $1 per pair, for the
students whose vision loss is not significant. How does this help the
totally blind students? With glasses, the students whose vision loss
are not "significant" can now transfer to regular schools, and thus we
have immediately reduced the class size at the school for the blind by
half, immediately doubled the chances a blind student can use the
computer. You could not have achieved these kinds of results under
the "significant vision loss" mission statement.
If we want our organization to achieve real impactful results, then I
suggest that we take out the word "significant" vision loss from our
draft mission statement. With limited resources, we need flexibility
in our mission statement to work smart.
What do you think?
Phil
On 10/31/10, Jan Wright <jan.wrightfamily5 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> OK, philip,
> I do understand what you are saying
> and Yes,
> I tend to be a bit rule driven.
> But:
> think about this:
> the person who can't see at night, but can see perfectly in the daytime,
> sure, he has limitations.
> But, are those limitations as severe as the person who can't see in the
> night and in the day?
> While, (Let's call him Patrick) Patrick's vision might limit him at night
> when he might want to go out and enjoy or relax or spend time with his
> family,
> John's vision loss places more limitations if he can't do his work or read
> his class text books or write in print or .... .... ....
> do you understand what I am saying?
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Philip So" <pcs2001 at caa.columbia.edu>
> To: "Blind International Students Mailing List"
> <blind-international-students at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Saturday, October 30, 2010 12:11 AM
> Subject: Re: [Blind-international-students] meeting minutes
>
>
> Maybe the man who sees well during daytime cannot see well at night,
> and that's why he needs a guide dog. Or maybe a person who can read
> street signs still needs a dog because he or she cannot see staircases
> due to lack of depth perception.
>
> Every person's disability is a bit different and only that person
> knows what works best for him or her. Isn't that what we always try
> to tell our rehab counselors? Our organization should be more
> flexible and nimble than a government agency, and as long as we are
> transparent about our policy that we want to serve those who are most
> in need, we should not explicitly exclude certain people because their
> vision loss is not "significant" enough based on our definition that
> doesn't take into account each person's unique disability.
>
> The bottom line is, do we want to be a rule-driven organization that
> dictates what people need, or a client-oriented organization that
> serves their expressed needs.
>
> Phil
>
> On 10/30/10, Philip So <philipso101 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Yes, keep mission statement simple and non-controversial.
>> Phil
>>
>>
>> On 10/29/10, Info <info at causesforchange.org> wrote:
>>> Phillip and Anmol,
>>> Very well said. In a mission statement, fewer words the better.
>>> Simplicity
>>> is key, say what you mean and mean what you say.
>>>
>>> Mission Statements are to guide, remember also that the name of the
>>> organization includes the word "Network" , you refer to other groups and
>>> organizations if it does not meet your requirements, no one is left out
>>> there without having their needs met, questions answered. It is a mission
>>> with a heart.
>>> Sent from Zully
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Anmol Bhatia <anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com>
>>> Sender: blind-international-students-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>> Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2010 08:18:59
>>> To: Blind International Students Mailing
>>> List<blind-international-students at nfbnet.org>
>>> Reply-To: Blind International Students Mailing List
>>> <blind-international-students at nfbnet.org>
>>> Subject: Re: [Blind-international-students] meeting minutes
>>>
>>> Phillip,
>>> I totally agree with you. Thanks for saying what I have been wanting to
>>> say
>>> but did not know how to say it. Lets not get caught up on small technical
>>> issues and leave it like Philip said it.
>>> Anmol
>>> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps
>>> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a
>>> breeze
>>> among flowers.
>>> Hellen Keller
>>>
>>>
>>> --- On Thu, 10/28/10, Philip So <philipso101 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> From: Philip So <philipso101 at gmail.com>
>>>> Subject: Re: [Blind-international-students] meeting minutes
>>>> To: "Blind International Students Mailing List"
>>>> <blind-international-students at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Date: Thursday, October 28, 2010, 9:16 PM
>>>> No need to worry about technical
>>>> specifics like what is low vision,
>>>> legally blind, etc. in our mission statement.
>>>> At the end of the day, we simply want to serve people who
>>>> are most in
>>>> need, so we can just say in our mission something along the
>>>> line of
>>>> "people who are blind, visually impaired or have vision
>>>> loss,
>>>> particularly those who are most in need".
>>>> Phil
>>>>
>>>> On 10/28/10, Anmol Bhatia <anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> > Jan I agree with you, but. This is why we need to
>>>> define what is low vision.
>>>> > Someone who can drive and read regular print does need
>>>> our services, but
>>>> > what about those read large print or can read regular
>>>> print with corrective
>>>> > measures such as glasses? I think that those who are
>>>> totally blind or those
>>>> > who read braille and need cane or a dog to get around
>>>> need our services
>>>> > first because those are the people who have it the
>>>> hardest and then those
>>>> > who have low enough vision to read large print and
>>>> need glasses to carry out
>>>> > everyday tasks. The ironic thing is that in my country
>>>> there would be alot
>>>> > more people who would be considered legally blind if
>>>> they used the same
>>>> > standard as they used in this country and alot more
>>>> people would be
>>>> > attending blind schools. This is just my oppinion and
>>>> it is off topic, but
>>>> > most people who attend blind school do not really have
>>>> a vision problem
>>>> > enough to alter their lives and could make it in
>>>> regular public schools, but
>>>> > attend blind schools because it is easy. But
>>>> this is best left for another
>>>> > discussion.
>>>> > Anmol
>>>> > I seldom think about my limitations, and they never
>>>> make me sad. Perhaps
>>>> > there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is
>>>> vague, like a breeze
>>>> > among flowers.
>>>> > Hellen Keller
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > --- On Thu, 10/28/10, Jan Wright <jan.wrightfamily5 at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >> From: Jan Wright <jan.wrightfamily5 at gmail.com>
>>>> >> Subject: Re: [Blind-international-students]
>>>> meeting minutes
>>>> >> To: "Blind International Students Mailing List"
>>>> >> <blind-international-students at nfbnet.org>
>>>> >> Date: Thursday, October 28, 2010, 1:22 PM
>>>> >>
>>>> >> So, is "low vision" the same as "legally blind?"
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Here is the problem, when we say that we want to
>>>> serve
>>>> >> "those with significant vision loss,"
>>>> >> we mean those who actually have enough vision
>>>> loss
>>>> >> which effects their daily living.
>>>> >> Those who can drive or read small print, (and I
>>>> don't
>>>> >> know the other qualifications) yet are termed
>>>> "legally
>>>> >> blind,"
>>>> >> would not really "need" our services or assistance
>>>> and we
>>>> >> don't want them to use them.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> I understand the sunglasses as a preventative
>>>> measure for
>>>> >> those who can already see and don't want to go
>>>> blind.
>>>> >> Zully, have you tried contacting industries that
>>>> use
>>>> >> "safety glasses?" they are a bit different, but
>>>> would be
>>>> >> durable and they might be able to help. Actually,
>>>> it seems
>>>> >> that safety glasses would work better because they
>>>> fit
>>>> >> closer to the eye and will not allow
>>>> dirt/sand/dust to get
>>>> >> between the lense and the eye. The industries (I
>>>> think) get
>>>> >> new glasses every so often, so will have lots of
>>>> old ones
>>>> >> lying around. I am sure that the manufacturers
>>>> might have an
>>>> >> inspection process that they go through.
>>>> >> Since you might not demand the same durability as:
>>>> "Let's
>>>> >> say a welding company" you might be able to tap
>>>> into
>>>> >> their glasses that did not make the cut in terms
>>>> of the
>>>> >> welders, yet could serve your purpose well.
>>>> >> And, I am not saying that we should not do a
>>>> project to
>>>> >> collect glasses and such.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> But, in my opinion,
>>>> >> and this is just my own opinion
>>>> >> (I respect the collectiveness of the group and
>>>> will yield
>>>> >> to majority)
>>>> >> I think that there is a larger need with those
>>>> whose vision
>>>> >> loss effects many of their daily living skills in
>>>> such a way
>>>> >> that they are unable to find work without some
>>>> types of
>>>> >> accommodation or
>>>> >> they are not able to read&write or receive an
>>>> education
>>>> >> comparable to their sighted peers.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> We still should find the exact definition of "low
>>>> vision"
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Anmol Bhatia"
>>>> <anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com>
>>>> >> To: "Blind International Students Mailing List"
>>>> >> <blind-international-students at nfbnet.org>
>>>> >> Sent: Thursday, October 28, 2010 11:28 AM
>>>> >> Subject: Re: [Blind-international-students]
>>>> meeting
>>>> >> minutes
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> I agree Jan.
>>>> >> This is the problem with us saying significant
>>>> vision
>>>> >> loss and I think I mentioned it in the last
>>>> meeting.
>>>> >> What does significant vision loss mean and to
>>>> what
>>>> >> degree will we consider significant vision
>>>> loss?
>>>> >> Unless and until we define what we consider
>>>> >> significant vision loss it will present a
>>>> problem for
>>>> >> us when we provide services. Therefore, it is
>>>> probally
>>>> >> better for us to leave it at legally blind and we
>>>> can
>>>> >> determine who receives our services based on
>>>> various factors
>>>> >> such need, lack of funds and various factors. I
>>>> think we
>>>> >> need to say that we will provide tools and
>>>> services to
>>>> >> anyone who needs it in order to be successful
>>>> which
>>>> >> would include providing eye glasses for legally
>>>> blind people
>>>> >> in Equidor. Low vision I think is anyone who is
>>>> >> legally blind which means that low vision is just
>>>> a better
>>>> >> term for legally blind. We could say that people
>>>> with low
>>>> >> vision excluding those with high parshel vision
>>>> but again
>>>> >> what do we consider high parshel? Proper language
>>>> is vary
>>>> >> important and significant vision loss is the
>>>> same
>>>> >> arguement like reasonable
>>>> >> accomadation. Americans with Disabilities mandates
>>>> that
>>>> >> employeers provide reasonable accomadation, but
>>>> does not
>>>> >> define what is considered reasonable
>>>> accomadation.
>>>> >> Just my thoughts.
>>>> >> Anmol
>>>> >>
>>>> >> I seldom think about my limitations, and they
>>>> never make me
>>>> >> sad. Perhaps there is just a touch of yearning at
>>>> times; but
>>>> >> it is vague, like a breeze among flowers.
>>>> >> Hellen Keller
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> --- On Thu, 10/28/10, Jan Wright <jan.wrightfamily5 at gmail.com>
>>>> >> wrote:
>>>> >>
>>>> >> > From: Jan Wright <jan.wrightfamily5 at gmail.com>
>>>> >> > Subject: Re: [Blind-international-students]
>>>> meeting
>>>> >> minutes
>>>> >> > To: "Blind International Students Mailing
>>>> List"
>>>> >> > <blind-international-students at nfbnet.org>
>>>> >> > Date: Thursday, October 28, 2010, 10:39 AM
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > I think that it will exclude those who do not
>>>> have
>>>> >> > significant vision loss.
>>>> >> > Because... .... they don't have significant
>>>> vision
>>>> >> loss and
>>>> >> > therefore, we
>>>> >> > are saying that when the vision loss is not
>>>> >> > "significant," it does not
>>>> >> > detour them from their daily living.
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > but, we probably should define
>>>> "Significant."
>>>> >> > Maybe "significant vision loss," is the same
>>>> as "low
>>>> >> > vision."
>>>> >> > If that has been defined, then, we can go
>>>> with it.
>>>> >> > I mean,
>>>> >> > what exactly is "low,"
>>>> >> > If there are definitions, let us know.
>>>> >> > We did not like the "legally blind,"
>>>> definitions
>>>> >> because we
>>>> >> > felt that there
>>>> >> > were some "legally blind" individuals who
>>>> could see
>>>> >> quite
>>>> >> > well and would not
>>>> >> > need our services.
>>>> >> > I know some here in the USA.
>>>> >> > Jan
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Causes
>>>> for Change
>>>> >> International (CCI)" <Info at CausesforChange.org>
>>>> >> > To: "'Blind International Students Mailing
>>>> List'"
>>>> >> > <blind-international-students at nfbnet.org>
>>>> >> > Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2010 6:58 PM
>>>> >> > Subject: Re: [Blind-international-students]
>>>> meeting
>>>> >> > minutes
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > >A question. What percentage of the
>>>> >> > > Population has "significant vision
>>>> loss"?
>>>> >> > > How is that defined? Will this exclude
>>>> those
>>>> >> > > That do not have "significant vision
>>>> loss"?
>>>> >> > >
>>>> >> > >
>>>> >> > > -----Original Message-----
>>>> >> > > From: blind-international-students-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>>> >> > > [mailto:blind-international-students-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>> >> > On Behalf Of Hina
>>>> >> > > Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2010 5:22
>>>> PM
>>>> >> > > To: Blind International Students Mailing
>>>> List
>>>> >> > > Subject: Re:
>>>> [Blind-international-students]
>>>> >> meeting
>>>> >> > minutes
>>>> >> > >
>>>> >> > > hi jan,
>>>> >> > > no, but please send it to me both goals
>>>> and
>>>> >> mission
>>>> >> > statement because i
>>>> >> > > and
>>>> >> > > philip are going to work on our web site
>>>> this
>>>> >> > weekend.
>>>> >> > > hina.
>>>> >> > > ----- Original Message ----- > From:
>>>> "Jan
>>>> >> Wright" <jan.wrightfamily5 at gmail.com>
>>>> >> > > To: "Blind International Students
>>>> Mailing List"
>>>> >> > > <blind-international-students at nfbnet.org>
>>>> >> > > Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2010 1:35
>>>> PM
>>>> >> > > Subject: Re:
>>>> [Blind-international-students]
>>>> >> meeting
>>>> >> > minutes
>>>> >> > >
>>>> >> > >
>>>> >> > >
>>>> >> > > Hi Hina,
>>>> >> > > Yes. we decided to change it to "Those
>>>> with
>>>> >> > significant vision loss."
>>>> >> > > That will be in the goals.
>>>> >> > > Do you want a new copy sent to the list
>>>> with the
>>>> >> > revisions?
>>>> >> > > Jan
>>>> >> > >
>>>> >> > > ----- Original Message ----- > From:
>>>> "hina
>>>> >> altaf" <hinaaltaf1983 at gmail.com>
>>>> >> > > To: "Blind International Students
>>>> Mailing List"
>>>> >> > > <blind-international-students at nfbnet.org>
>>>> >> > > Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2010 11:04
>>>> AM
>>>> >> > > Subject: Re:
>>>> [Blind-international-students]
>>>> >> meeting
>>>> >> > minutes
>>>> >> > >
>>>> >> > >
>>>> >> > > dear jan, thanks for sending out the
>>>> minutes. I
>>>> >> think
>>>> >> > instead of
>>>> >> > > legally blind, we should use words like
>>>> people
>>>> >> with
>>>> >> > significant vision
>>>> >> > > lose. The time for next meeting is this
>>>> coming
>>>> >> sunday
>>>> >> > at 6 pm central
>>>> >> > > time. if anyone has any other plans
>>>> please let me
>>>> >> know
>>>> >> > ahead of time.
>>>> >> > > any suggestions of what are some of the
>>>> projects
>>>> >> we
>>>> >> > can work on? zully
>>>> >> > > the braille writer was already taken by
>>>> someone
>>>> >> else
>>>> >> > and if you still
>>>> >> > > did not recieve one, i can try a few
>>>> other
>>>> >> resources.
>>>> >> > thanks.
>>>> >> > > hina.
>>>> >> > >
>>>> >> > > On 10/26/10, jan wright <jan.wrightfamily5 at gmail.com>
>>>> >> > wrote:
>>>> >> > >> The meeting Began at 8:15 P.M.
>>>> (EST).
>>>> >> > >>
>>>> >> > >> Those in attendance were Hina,
>>>> Anmol,
>>>> >> > Zaby, Jan, Philip and Imran.
>>>> >> > >>
>>>> >> > >> The goals and mission statement were
>>>> read
>>>> >> again.
>>>> >> > It was suggested and
>>>> >> > >> adopted to change " Legally blind,"
>>>> and
>>>> >> "Blind and
>>>> >> > Low Vision" to
>>>> >> > >> "Those with significant vision
>>>> loss."
>>>> >> > >> It was pointed out that there are
>>>> already
>>>> >> > international databases of
>>>> >> > >> organizations. So, instead of
>>>> reinventing
>>>> >> the
>>>> >> > wheel, we will
>>>> >> > >> "evaluate" already existing
>>>> databases and
>>>> >> make
>>>> >> > attempts to add to them
>>>> >> > >> or correct them if/when possible.
>>>> >> > >> The goals and mission statement were
>>>> accepted
>>>> >> as
>>>> >> > corrected.
>>>> >> > >>
>>>> >> > >>
>>>> >> > >> Zaby is going to Pakistan, Karachi
>>>> to
>>>> >> > evaluate an organization where
>>>> >> > >> blind people live and work. He will
>>>> give us
>>>> >> a
>>>> >> > report of his findings
>>>> >> > >> when he returns. We wish him luck
>>>> and a safe
>>>> >> > trip.
>>>> >> > >> There was much discussion
>>>> concerning
>>>> >> publicity.
>>>> >> > >> Anmol was to write an add for us to
>>>> put on
>>>> >> the
>>>> >> > email lists, etc.
>>>> >> > >> We realize that we don't have a
>>>> website, yet,
>>>> >> but
>>>> >> > we could advertise
>>>> >> > >> the blind-international-student
>>>> mailing list
>>>> >> > >> and our conference calls.
>>>> >> > >> Anmol talked about putting an
>>>> advertisement
>>>> >> > in the Ziggler Magazine,
>>>> >> > >> MIUSA and the Braille forum.
>>>> >> > >> Hina will put something on the
>>>> technology
>>>> >> > list.
>>>> >> > >> Everyone should put a blurb about
>>>> the
>>>> >> > organization on their email
>>>> >> > >> lists,
>>>> >> > >> etc.
>>>> >> > >> We could also advertise on newsline,
>>>> Braille
>>>> >> > Monitor and the Student
>>>> >> > >> division.
>>>> >> > >> We also discussed making a web
>>>> site.
>>>> >> > >> Philip and Imran can create the web
>>>> page.
>>>> >> > >> Imran will look into setting up a
>>>> website
>>>> >> > and have a mailing list on
>>>> >> > >> freelists.
>>>> >> > >>
>>>> >> > >> We discussed grant writing and
>>>> defining
>>>> >> projects
>>>> >> > that are important to
>>>> >> > >> us. Hina would talk to Katy about
>>>> grant
>>>> >> writing.
>>>> >> > Anmol would
>>>> >> > >> investigate the grant from AAPD.
>>>> >> > >> Next meeting is on
>>>> >> > Halloween. The exact time is to be
>>>> announced.
>>>> >> > >> This meeting was adjourned at 9:25
>>>> P.M.
>>>> >> > >>
>>>> >> > >> Respectfully submitted,
>>>> >> > >> Jan Wright (am in the process of
>>>> changing my
>>>> >> last
>>>> >> > name to Ahmed)
>>>> >> > >>
>>>> >> > >>
>>>> >>_______________________________________________
>>>> >> > >> Blind-international-students mailing
>>>> list
>>>> >> > >> Blind-international-students at nfbnet.org
>>>> >> > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blind-international-students_nfbnet.org
>>>> >> > >> To unsubscribe, change your list
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>>>> >> get
>>>> >> > your account info for
>>>> >> > >> Blind-international-students:
>>>> >> > >>
>>>> >> > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blind-international-students_nfbnet.org/hi
>>>> >> > > naaltaf1983%40gmail.com
>>>> >> > >>
>>>> >> > >
>>>> >> > >
>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>> >> > > Blind-international-students mailing
>>>> list
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>>>> >> > > n.wrightfamily5%40gmail.com
>>>> >> > >
>>>> >> > >
>>>> >> > >
>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>> >> > > Blind-international-students mailing
>>>> list
>>>> >> > > Blind-international-students at nfbnet.org
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>>>> >> > > ltaf%40carrollu.edu
>>>> >> > >
>>>> >> > >
>>>> >> > >
>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>> >> > > Blind-international-students mailing
>>>> list
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>>>> >> > > fo%40causesforchange.org
>>>> >> > > No virus found in this incoming
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>>>> >> > > 01:34:00
>>>> >> > >
>>>> >> > >
>>>> >> > >
>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>> >> > > Blind-international-students mailing
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>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >
>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>> >> > Blind-international-students mailing list
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>>>> >> >
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>_______________________________________________
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>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>_______________________________________________
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>>>> >>
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >_______________________________________________
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>>>> >
>>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>
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