[Blind-rollers] Blind-rollers Digest, Vol 37, Issue 4

Mon Aug 9 19:59:30 UTC 2010

Well then I wish u could help me, too, Cynthia. Unlike most of the
folks here, I use a walker, as my problems are more balance-related
than an inability to walk per se. & it's a pain w/a cane. Yeah, I
know--I'm a poet etc. I had a sonar device called the wheelchair
pathfinder, but the manufacturer, Nazir Ali, died in 2k1 (tremendous
loss to the blindness community, btw), &, with him, so did support for
the device. Most of the time I feel like I'm yelling down a sewer, &
the only answer I get back is the echo of my own questions regarding
how to regain my mobility. & I think a lot of folks on this list feel
pretty similarly.

On 8/9/10, Cynthia Barty <Cynthia.Barty at cnib.ca> wrote:
> Jewel and other users (smile) I am an O&M Specialist in Canada with CNIB and
> understand your frustrations. I have the ability though to think outside of
> the box and am versed in O&M for a wheelchair user. If you have an
> instructor locally that is shooting you down let me know and if they are
> willing to hear me out I am more than willing to give them a different
> perspective. I am sorry to hear that specialists in the O&M field are not
> open to this as an option to instruct. O&M can be a versatile creature if
> you just give it some common sense thought! Good luck and please provide me
> with an email if there is a glimmer of hope detected in their tone. Thanks!
>
> Cynthia Barty- OMS
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blind-rollers-bounces at nfbnet.org
> [mailto:blind-rollers-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
> blind-rollers-request at nfbnet.org
> Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 1:00 PM
> To: blind-rollers at nfbnet.org
> Subject: Blind-rollers Digest, Vol 37, Issue 4
>
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>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. Re: New Member and Question (Erica Cole)
>    2. Re: New Member and Question (Sasha Ayres)
>    3. Re: New Member and Question (Jewel S.)
>    4. Re: New Member and Question (Erica Cole)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2010 19:24:13 +0100
> From: "Erica Cole" <ejcole at fmail.co.uk>
> To: "'Blind wheelchair users list'" <blind-rollers at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [Blind-rollers] New Member and Question
> Message-ID: <F61A327E06164FE69E1AE69EC6A17FB3 at EZZIEBOOK>
> Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="us-ascii"
>
> Hi Jewel
> There is a community on Livejournal called GDHAW (guidedog handlers all
> ways) which is affiliated with Guidedogs for the Blind (am I right thinking
> that that's what GDF stands for?) I'min the UK and we only have one
> guidedog
> organisation here.
>
> I finally won with my doctor recently and they are referring me to get a
> wheelchair. The one I use at the moment is ropy at best, not the right size
> and very uncomfortable. Still, its better than needing to  sit down every
> few minutes and not being able to go anywhere.
> I'm sorry you're having such a shitty week. I've learnt not to
> underestimate
> my condition because it's so darn changeable.
> Your local O and M person or place sounds like a useless waste of space.
> Definitely go further afield and if you can get into a specialist centre
> for
> the blind then this will be well worth it. I'm stumbling along on my own at
> the moment because I'm unaware of anyone that can give a wheelchair userO
> and M in this country.
> My local authority (government agency) only will give you 6 weeks of Rehab
> training and then you're on your own.
>
>
> If you use MSN, AIM or Skype, feel free to write to me offlist if you want
> to talk more and I'll give you the details.
> Best
> Erica.
>
>
>   ---Original Message-----
> From: blind-rollers-bounces at nfbnet.org
> [mailto:blind-rollers-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jewel S.
> Sent: 07 August 2010 11:27
> To: Blind wheelchair users list
> Subject: Re: [Blind-rollers] New Member and Question
>
> Hi Erica,
>
> Thanks for the welcome and suggestions. I considered having someone carry
> my
> stuff...I don't tink it's practical in the end because I have learned from
> hard experience that the only person I can truly count on to help me is
> myself. Other people will offer help often, but I have learned time and
> time
> again that they rarely do what they say they will, so I need to rely on
> myself and do things I know I can do without help. This is my experience
> since I was very little, having grown up in a dysfunctional family with an
> abusive mother, having been disappointed by people time and time over the
> years, and still finding myself trying to accept that people want to help,
> only to be let down once again. If I let someone carry my stuff for me,
> what
> will happen when they don't show up one day?
>
> The only thing I have come up with that doesn't involve a wheelchair or
> walker is the guide dog I plan on getting next  May/June. I plan on going
> to
> GDF (almost done with the application, just need to get my refrences to
> finish up), and they are willing to train my guide dog to also use a
> balance
> harness. They can also train my guide dog to guide with me from a
> wheelchair, which I know will be needed for short periods of time, such as
> at Disney World next year. Once I have a guide dog he/she will be mobility
> aid, support for balance, and traveling companion all in one. Right now I
> have my white cane and my support cane, but with a guide dog, I'll have
> only
> one hand needed for my mobility aid, as long as they train my dog to be on
> my right side.
> If they train him/her on my left side, I will still need a cane on the
> right
> because I lean so far to the right that's the way I will fall when/if I do.
> GDF says they are willing to train a dog to the right side if it is
> necessary, and I am sure it will be necessary...what's the point of the
> balance harness if I'm going to end up falling the other way and may not
> have enough balance to force a lean to the left?
>
> I have been dealing with doctors for seven years, not quite ready to give
> up
> on them yet. But in the meantime, I am doing things on my own.
> I am trying to exercise daily for about 15 to 30 minutes. I try to keep to
> a
> low-glucose diet (easy to do with a diabetic boyfriend!) and am trying to
> encorporate gluten-free meals into my diet (suggestions from a friend with
> fibromyalgia who is doing incredibly well for having had fibromyalgia for
> several decades). I also make sure to take a nap every afternoon between
> 3:30 and 4pm, for half an hour to an hour, depending on how I slept the
> night before. Like, I'll probably take at least an hour nap today because I
> have slept horribly tonight...I'm not usually up this early, really.
>
> Have you ever used a white cane while using a wheelchair? I have heard that
> the O&M is completely different. My local O&M instructor said it is too
> difficult, that I couldn't do it. So I know if I were to start using a
> wheelchair, I'd have to go elsewhere for O&M instruction. It may be just
> the
> excuse I need to go to the Louisiana Center for the Blind, which I want to
> go for intensive Braille classes, too (I read 50 wpm one-handed, and want
> to
> learn two-handed). I may go that route if my doctor agrees that a motorized
> wheelchair would be appropriate for me to use part-time. I guess I'm
> getting
> used to the idea, especially since this week has all been bad days,
> struggling to get out of bed and go places every day of the week. I'm used
> to one or two days a week being bad days, not the whole week.
>
> Do any of you use a wheelchair and work with a guide dog? I know one person
> on the NAGDU list who is a guide dog handler and a wheelchair user. What is
> that like? Does it work well for you?
>
> ~Jewel
>
> On 8/6/10, Erica Cole <rebellion220 at hotmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi Jewel.
>> I too have chronic back, shoulder and hip pain, but I've found since I
>> told the medical profession to stuff itself (wasn't getting any
>> support anyway) and got myself a wheelchair, I can get a lot more
>> done, am not in so much pain and feel I can slowly get on with my life.
>>
>> I'm really sorry about your college woes, I used to carry a rolling
>> case before I had most of my physical probs, but Ihaven't tried it
> recently.
>> When I'm  going away, I sit in my wheelchair,  sans footrests, put the
>> case between my feet - handle pointed up to my chin and steer as usual
>> - rather blindly in fact - with my arms on the rims.
>>
>> The only thing I can think of is if you can get a frien to carry your
>> things to enable you to concentrate on walking etc. I know its not
>> ideal, and you may not even want to do that kind of thing  considering
>> your independence, but that's all I can think up.
>>
>> Welcome to the list by the way.
>> Best,
>> Erica in the UK
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: blind-rollers-bounces at nfbnet.org
>> [mailto:blind-rollers-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jewel S.
>> Sent: 05 August 2010 03:38
>> To: blind-rollers at nfbnet.org
>> Subject: [Blind-rollers] New Member and Question
>>
>> Dear list,
>>
>> Hello everyone! My name is Jewel. I am 25 years old and live in
>> Raleigh, North Carolina. I posted a question to the NABS (student
>> division) list, and they suggested this list to me. If I had realized
>> it was here, I would have joined long ago!
>>
>> So, a bit about me. Before I lost my sight, I was a nanny (both
>> live-in and live-out). When I lost my sight due to a chemical burn
>> (drain cleaner splashed in my face), I lost my job as a nanny, and
>> private employees of families are not covered by the ADA. So, I
>> decided I needed to find a new profession and am going back to school
>> in the fall to become a TVI (teacher of the visually impaired).
>>
>> So, like I said, I lost my vision due to a chemical burn. It was
>> 20/70, but then secondary glaucoma set in and brought it down to its
>> current, which is 3/350 in the right eye and some light perception in
>> the left. But I'm going to back up to discuss my physical condition,
>> the main reason I joined this last after all.
>>
>> Ever since I can remember, I have had physical problems. I could never
>> run without twisting an ankle, hurting my back, or hurting my knees. I
>> thought I just wasn't athletic. I was raised Catholic, and I remember
>> as a kid squirming as I kneeled at the pew to make my knee crack
>> because it would cramp until it cracked.
>>
>> In 2003, I joined the Army, but was unable to pass the physical tests
>> for two reasons: my knees do not lock in place, so they wouldn't count
>> my push-ups because my knees dropped a fraction of an inch every time,
>> and I couldn't run...when I did the mile run, toward the end, my knee
>> completely gave out and I fell on the ground. The drill sergeant of
>> course thought I was being lazy and yelled at me, and I walked on a
>> knee that wasn't working right until the end (about a hundred yards).
>> While at Fort Jackson for basic training, while still in "intake" or
>> whatever, I developed tendonitis so bad I was put on a dead man's
>> profile.
>> If you know anything about the military, dead man's profile means no
>> exercise, no walking, stay in bed and do nothing, and we'll bring your
>> meals to you. My ankles and my knees would not hold my weight, period.
>>
>> Ever since then, I have slowly been deteriorating. It started with my
>> right knee and hip and only one bad day a month approximately. Then it
>> spread to my right arm and shoulder, and then to my back, then to my
>> left shoulder, and now it is all over my body. It's hard to describe,
>> though. It's like constant pulsing of pain in all my joints nad
>> muscles. My muscles get so tense they are almost as hard as bone
>> itself, and my joints, especially my elbow, shoulder, and jaw,
>> sometimes lock. I have severe tremors at times, and the headaches come
>> and go. Earaches also come and go. But my back, hips, knees, and wrists
> hurt non-stop.
>>
>> The worst thing for me is walking. When I walk, I use my white cane
>> and my support cane, but I have such poor balance that sometimes I
>> have to use both the support cane and my boyfriend's arm just to stay
>> walking straight. I stumble, I fall, and my right foot drags to the
>> point if there's a crack in the sidewalk, my right foot will get stuck
>> on it because I can't lift it even that little bit.
>>
>> My feet turn outward, and my chiropractor told me that my head is
>> literally on crooked. I have two slipped discs in my neck (at the
>> top), and my skull, because of these slipped discs, is actually on
>> sideways, leaning to the left. My neck is also misshapen in that it
>> has only an eleven degree curvature instead of the normal forty-five.
>> My back is misaligned, my hips are off to the point that my right leg
>> is made to be half an inch shorter (not really, but the hip lifts it
>> up half an inch more than the left side), and my wrists have bones out
>> of place (my left wrist was broken when I was a kid and didn't set
> properly).
>>
>> I think worse than all of this, though, is that my condition, after
>> seven years of doctors and tests and physical therapy and drugs, is
>> still undiagnosed. The diagnosises have included a tonsular
>> herniation, a chiari 1 malformation, multiple scelorosis, lupus,
>> rheumatoid arthritis, osteoarthritis, chronic pain, and chronic
>> fatigue syndrome. All of these have been turned down (except the
>> general diagnosis of chronic pain and chronic fatigue syndrome) and
>> the latest possibility is firbromyalgia, which my father had in
>> connection to Desert Storm Syndrome, so they thnk it's a good
>> possibility.
> But seven years and no diagnosis is really getting to me.
>> I've been told I'm faking, I have a low pain threshold, I'm asking for
>> attention, and that it's not really so bad. I've been told that
>> nothing can be done and that I should just live with it. I've been
>> given Oxycodone, Percocet, ultracet, Rizalle (can't spell that one),
>> prescription ibuprofen, muscle relaxants, and pretty much anything
>> short of morphine and tranquilizers. I've even gotten steroid shots and
>> IV
> pain medicines.
>>
>> My doctor has suggested that I start using a walker or wheelchair, and
>> I am really pushing against it. I know it's not so bad to be a
>> wheelchair user, but I want to walk...I worry that using a wheelchair
>> will mean less and less walking, more and more deterioration. I worry
>> that people will be even harder to deal with, and that I will have to
>> learn O&M all over again when it was so hard in the first place
>> because of my memory problems and bad days when I get completely
>> confused, kinda like I'm in a fog. If O&M was so hard for me when Ic
>> ould walk, how much harder will it be when I'm in a wheelchair?
>>
>> I'm not worried about how it'll affect having a guide dog...I'm going
>> to get a guide dog next summer sometime hopefully, and Guide Dog
>> Foundation has said that they will train my dog to work with a
>> motorized wheelchair if they need to, so that won't be a problem. The
>> dog will also be trained with a balance harness for when I walk, because
>> I
> have so much trouble with that.
>>
>> So, that's all about my problems...now on to the inquiry.
>>
>> I have two hands, of course...I have one hand for the white cane, one
>> hand for the support cane, and...one hand for the rolling backpack?
>> Nope. Dang it! I need a third hand. I'm not allowed to carry more than
>> about five pounds on my back or shoulder, so I can't carry the
>> backpack. It wil lhave my laptop (5 to 7 pounds), a refreshable
>> Braille display, an extra keyboard (laoptop keyboards cramp my hands
>> badly), and a few other items...not books, not binders. Those stay at
>> home. But that's going to be about 10 pounds minimum. Now, I've tried
>> to pull my backpack with the hand that holds the cane, but I stumble
>> and trip because I can't put enough weight on the support cane. I've
>> also tried carrying it in the hand using the white cane, but I can't
>> sweep the cane well and miss obstacles (I ran into a pole that way
>> *blush*). I spoke to the college's disability office, and they did not
>> know what to suggest. I asked the student division people, and their
>> suggests were to go without the backpack (need the laptop and can't
>> carry it, sot hat's out) or use a wheelchair (really don't want to, and I
> don't know if I could get one anyway).
>>
>> So my question is, is there anyway for me to walk with two canes and a
>> rolling backpack? Does anyone have any creative solutinos? I was
>> thinking a rope attached to the t-grip and wrapped around my wrist or
>> forearm, but that would put too much weight on wrist or forearm and
>> would hurt too badly. For the same reason, a waist harness would not
>> work because of my back and hips, and anything on my harness would be
>> too much for shoulders and back. I'm just totally stumped here. Does
> anyone have suggestions?
>>
>> And that's the end of my ever so long e-mail...
>> --
>> ~Jewel
>> Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind!
>> Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Blind-rollers mailing list
>> Blind-rollers at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blind-rollers_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> Blind-rollers:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blind-rollers_nfbnet.org/rebelli
>> on220%
>> 40hotmail.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Blind-rollers mailing list
>> Blind-rollers at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blind-rollers_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> Blind-rollers:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blind-rollers_nfbnet.org/herekit
>> tykat2%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> --
> ~Jewel
> Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind!
> Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> Blind-rollers mailing list
> Blind-rollers at nfbnet.org
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Blind-rollers:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blind-rollers_nfbnet.org/ejcole%40fmai
> l.co.uk
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2010 19:27:02 +0000 (GMT)
> From: Sasha Ayres <sashaallears at yahoo.co.uk>
> To: Blind wheelchair users list <blind-rollers at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [Blind-rollers] New Member and Question
> Message-ID: <510621.35559.qm at web29701.mail.ird.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
>
>
> Hello Jewel,
>
> I am sorry I don't have any suggestions of how you can carry your bag and
> use a support cane in one hand and white cane in the other. It'd be nice to
> have an extra hand or two wouldn't it? :)
>
> I understand your reluctance to use a wheelchair but it can be a liberating
> experience! Carrying heavy things in a power wheelchair is a breeze and you
> don't have to worry about whether somewhere is too far for you to walk.
>
> I use a cane and a Miniguide from my power chair. O&M from a wheelchair is
> different but it isn't too hard. Like Erica, I am in the UK and couldn't get
> any training so have had to work it out for myself, which isn't ideal but
> I've done it.
>
> If you could go to the Louisiana centre that would be great for you. I hear
> so much about it and it sounds excellent.
>
> I am sorry I can't help more but wish you good luck!
>
> Sasha
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2010 16:17:03 -0400
> From: "Jewel S." <herekittykat2 at gmail.com>
> To: Blind wheelchair users list <blind-rollers at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [Blind-rollers] New Member and Question
> Message-ID:
>         <AANLkTi=GWB=AoQwE0o3y08+B+qd_hv=rF50O_4wxXBtq at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Actually, GDF in this case stands for Guide Dog Foundation, a guide
> dog school in Long Island, New York, different from Guide Dogs for the
> Blind (GDB).
>
> Yes, the local O&M people are useless when it comes to blind people
> with physical disabilities. I asked about using a wheelchair, and the
> instructor said to avoid it, because he couldn't think of how in the
> world I could use my cane from a wheelchair...I know some people do
> it, so there is a way, but he's clueless, and so is the other.  Grrr.
> Definitely going to go elsewhere if I need O&M with a wheelchair...if
> I start using a wheelchair even part-time, I will definitely need the
> training.
>
> I thought our state's maximum of 15 weeks was bad! How can you learn
> anything of much use in six weeks? That's absolutely ridiculous! Is
> there no long-term training centers in the UK, like the NFB centers
> here in the U.S., which do 6 month to 9 month periods of training?
>
> On 8/8/10, Sasha Ayres <sashaallears at yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Hello Jewel,
>>
>> I am sorry I don't have any suggestions of how you can carry your bag and
>> use a support cane in one hand and white cane in the other. It'd be nice
>> to
>> have an extra hand or two wouldn't it? :)
>>
>> I understand your reluctance to use a wheelchair but it can be a
>> liberating
>> experience! Carrying heavy things in a power wheelchair is a breeze and
>> you
>> don't have to worry about whether somewhere is too far for you to walk.
>>
>> I use a cane and a Miniguide from my power chair. O&M from a wheelchair
>> is
>> different but it isn't too hard. Like Erica, I am in the UK and couldn't
>> get
>> any training so have had to work it out for myself, which isn't ideal but
>> I've done it.
>>
>> If you could go to the Louisiana centre that would be great for you. I
>> hear
>> so much about it and it sounds excellent.
>>
>> I am sorry I can't help more but wish you good luck!
>>
>> Sasha
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Blind-rollers mailing list
>> Blind-rollers at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blind-rollers_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> Blind-rollers:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blind-rollers_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> --
> ~Jewel
> Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind!
> Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2010 21:53:35 +0100
> From: "Erica Cole" <ejcole at fmail.co.uk>
> To: "'Blind wheelchair users list'" <blind-rollers at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [Blind-rollers] New Member and Question
> Message-ID: <BF0096ED292F42D4B9C543FCEDD56BD9 at EZZIEBOOK>
> Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="us-ascii"
>
> Ah, OK. Thanks for the info. I guess I could go to a residential college to
> learn where you do a course on top of independence / rehab stuff. I already
> did one residential college but that was before I had most of my symptoms
> get worse.
> As it is I think I need to   do something because I think there's a lot I
> don't know.
> There's nowhere that does solely rehab work.
> Thanks for the idea
> Erica
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blind-rollers-bounces at nfbnet.org
> [mailto:blind-rollers-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jewel S.
> Sent: 08 August 2010 21:17
> To: Blind wheelchair users list
> Subject: Re: [Blind-rollers] New Member and Question
>
> Actually, GDF in this case stands for Guide Dog Foundation, a guide dog
> school in Long Island, New York, different from Guide Dogs for the Blind
> (GDB).
>
> Yes, the local O&M people are useless when it comes to blind people with
> physical disabilities. I asked about using a wheelchair, and the instructor
> said to avoid it, because he couldn't think of how in the world I could use
> my cane from a wheelchair...I know some people do it, so there is a way,
> but
> he's clueless, and so is the other.  Grrr.
> Definitely going to go elsewhere if I need O&M with a wheelchair...if I
> start using a wheelchair even part-time, I will definitely need the
> training.
>
> I thought our state's maximum of 15 weeks was bad! How can you learn
> anything of much use in six weeks? That's absolutely ridiculous! Is there
> no
> long-term training centers in the UK, like the NFB centers here in the
> U.S.,
> which do 6 month to 9 month periods of training?
>
> On 8/8/10, Sasha Ayres <sashaallears at yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Hello Jewel,
>>
>> I am sorry I don't have any suggestions of how you can carry your bag
>> and use a support cane in one hand and white cane in the other. It'd
>> be nice to have an extra hand or two wouldn't it? :)
>>
>> I understand your reluctance to use a wheelchair but it can be a
>> liberating experience! Carrying heavy things in a power wheelchair is
>> a breeze and you don't have to worry about whether somewhere is too far
> for you to walk.
>>
>> I use a cane and a Miniguide from my power chair. O&M from a
>> wheelchair is different but it isn't too hard. Like Erica, I am in the
>> UK and couldn't get any training so have had to work it out for
>> myself, which isn't ideal but I've done it.
>>
>> If you could go to the Louisiana centre that would be great for you. I
>> hear so much about it and it sounds excellent.
>>
>> I am sorry I can't help more but wish you good luck!
>>
>> Sasha
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Blind-rollers mailing list
>> Blind-rollers at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blind-rollers_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> Blind-rollers:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blind-rollers_nfbnet.org/herekit
>> tykat2%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> --
> ~Jewel
> Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind!
> Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com
>
> _______________________________________________
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> End of Blind-rollers Digest, Vol 37, Issue 4
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-- 
Change the world--1 deed at a time
Jackie McBride
Scripting Classes: http://jawsscripting.lonsdalemedia.org
homePage: www.abletec.serverheaven.net
For technophobes: www.technophoeb.com