[Blind-Rollers] Guiding wheelchairs

Sun Aug 16 19:31:09 UTC 2020

OK, will this sounds like there are some Federationists Who might actually remember Wilkes-Barre.  Hang onto those guys for dear life.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 15, 2020, at 3:17 PM, Lauren Merryfield via Blind-Rollers <blind-rollers at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> Talk to TreLegal in CAA; Goldstein, Borgen, Dardarian & Ho (Dardarian is with a D as in dog). Also in CA. They specialize in disabled rights Tim Elder, of TreLegal, is the Pres. Of the CA affiliate of the NFB.
> 
> Thanks,
> Lauren
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Blind-Rollers <blind-rollers-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Leah Campbell via Blind-Rollers
> Sent: Friday, August 14, 2020 8:16 PM
> To: Blind wheelchair users list <blind-rollers at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Leah Campbell <scottish_lass at outlook.com>
> Subject: Re: [Blind-Rollers] Guiding wheelchairs
> 
> Hi,
> I know. They were just giving an excuse, but when you can't find anyone to pursue the matter, what can you do? 
> 
> Leah Campbell
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Blind-Rollers <blind-rollers-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of maureen Pranghofer via Blind-Rollers
> Sent: Friday, August 14, 2020 7:10 PM
> To: 'Blind wheelchair users list' <blind-rollers at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: maureensmusic at comcast.net
> Subject: Re: [Blind-Rollers] Guiding wheelchairs
> 
> Hi
> Before I found Can-Do-Canines that's what all the schools I contacted told me I wouldn't know what the dog was picking up but Walter picks up things I didn't even realize had fallen like when doing laundry if a piece of clothing drops he (on his own) will go in the bedroom and come and hand me something. Unless you have a bunch of stuff on the floor and something is like poisonous for a dog there wouldn't ever be any danger and when something has dropped like once a bottle of pills spilled I just say leave it and it isn't touched, so like Jane says, they are just giving an excuse not to work with you.
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Blind-Rollers <blind-rollers-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Jane Lansaw via Blind-Rollers
> Sent: Friday, August 14, 2020 6:19 PM
> To: Blind wheelchair users list <blind-rollers at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Jane Lansaw <lansaw at icloud.com>
> Subject: Re: [Blind-Rollers] Guiding wheelchairs
> 
> Hi Lea,
> Thanks for telling us all about pause for a purpose. I was going to check out the other organization that Becky mentioned but this one is closer to home.
> As for the company they said it would be dangerous because you wouldn’t know what the dog was bringing you I would posit that if it is not safe for me to take in my hand, it is not safe for the dog to pick up in his mouth.  That is just an excuse. I think that they are doing this because they don’t know how to work with blind people and they don’t know enough or care enough to stop and ask us. I don’t trainers naturally assume that they know everything in the world and that their students know nothing. Not all trainers of course but most of the ones in the orthodox training centers behave this way. They are the experts and we are the students. I think that other trainers must also feel this way and are not willing to recognize our expertise.  I would expect the blind person to be the expert on blindness and the service dog trainer to be the expert on dogs.  
> Occasionally I’ve had a chance to change minds by participating in training provided for orientation and mobility instructors at three different schools and being allowed to show them how a blind person really can’t be the expert. Still, the condescending trainers outnumber the higher expectation trainers. I am so glad you found pause for a purpose and I can’t wait to hear how your experience is.  Fingers crossed,
> 
> Jane Lansaw
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Aug 14, 2020, at 5:46 PM, Leah Campbell via Blind-Rollers <blind-rollers at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi, Becky,
>> 
>> I started my search into dogs that could guide for wheelchair users in May 2019. I found at https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fassistancedogsinternational.org%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cde2c1aae0456495e950b08d840c9b7e4%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637330582399582713&sdata=dbeqlsDPA0Uja591LtuKXq27v0TeEYlC991bVXknyWY%3D&reserved=0  3 schools that listed guide and service work. KSDS in Kansas and Southeast Guide Dogs said they did guide or service work not guide and service work. Guide Dog Foundation said they no longer had their trainer that did both. When I asked about a service dog from them, Guide Dog Foundation said they only did service dogs for vets. There was only one trainer that said they would work with the owner's dog anywhere in the country. That was Canines for Mobility in Wyoming. When I called them, they said they were no longer doing their guide and service program. When I called back and asked about getting a dog trained just for service work since I met their qualifications of previously having a guide dog. The trainer left me a message stating it would be a danger for a blind person to have a service dog since I wouldn't know what the dog was bringing me. When I had a lawyer contact her, she said it would be a danger for the dog. I am now working with the owner of Paws for Purpose here in Oklahoma to train a puppy for service work for me.
>> 
>> Leah Campbell
>> [https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fass
>> istancedogsinternational.org%2Fclientuploads%2Fdirectory%2Fsite_&d
>> ata=02%7C01%7C%7Cfca8783d70bb48e5024208d840afc1be%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb4
>> 35aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637330470892761680&sdata=4aDkWfO70%2BsHi%
>> 2BoImQ%2Bj9Nh3kNOIZdEVQIQyLU2BttY%3D&reserved=0
>> settings/og-puppies.jpg]<https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.co
>> m/?url=https%3A%2F%2Feur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.co%2F&data
>> =02%7C01%7C%7Cde2c1aae0456495e950b08d840c9b7e4%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435a
>> aaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637330582399592708&sdata=60Hs%2BWeyNNaP595OB
>> FrVrLTYh0u0AQC9vwyYd09DZo4%3D&reserved=0
>> m/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fassistancedogsinternational.org%2F&data=02%7C
>> 01%7C%7Cfca8783d70bb48e5024208d840afc1be%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaa
>> aaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637330470892761680&sdata=iKsQODmhK5o43C89gmdCa4W%2
>> F01vEBT9UznguIC3rnUM%3D&reserved=0>
>> Assistance Dogs
>> International<https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http
>> s%3A%2F%2Fassistancedogsinternational.org%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cfca
>> 8783d70bb48e5024208d840afc1be%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7
>> C0%7C637330470892761680&sdata=iKsQODmhK5o43C89gmdCa4W%2F01vEBT9Uzn
>> guIC3rnUM%3D&reserved=0> Who we are. Assistance Dogs 
>> International, Inc. (ADI) is a worldwide coalition of non-profit programs that train and place Assistance Dogs. Founded in 1986 from a group of seven small programs, ADI has become the leading authority in the Assistance Dog industry.
>> assistancedogsinternational.org
>> 
>> 
>> Leah Campbell
>> ________________________________
>> From: Blind-Rollers <blind-rollers-bounces at nfbnet.org> on behalf of 
>> Jane Lansaw via Blind-Rollers <blind-rollers at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Friday, August 14, 2020 12:39 PM
>> To: Blind wheelchair users list <blind-rollers at nfbnet.org>
>> Cc: Jane Lansaw <lansaw at icloud.com>
>> Subject: Re: [Blind-Rollers] Guiding wheelchairs
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone hi Lauren,
>> What state are you in now? Are you in touch with your local NFB 
>> chapter? This sounds like a civil rights issue if they will not let you drive your wheelchair outside your room. You may need a little bit of instruction with a longer cane and wheelchair but maybe your local chapter can help you find someone local who can come in and work with you.  I can’t imagine that you would need that much instruction given your history as a cane user at all. All you need to practice is making a turn without taking off a door jam and centering yourself on a ramp. Otherwise it’s just like walking, you clear your path and drive at a speed that lets you have enough warning of drop off‘s and obstacles. I always recommend that my wheelchair users start out very slowly and crank up their governor as they get more experience. Eventually they can rule at the same speed that they walked when they were on 2 feet.
>> 
>> About tapping people in the foot, what would they do to me? If I walk in there and tap somebody on the foot because I don’t know that I am to close? They would have no choice. Naturally I would excuse myself politely but I would still tapped him on the foot because I would rather do that then smack into them. They need to be educated and if you can get some help from your local chapter to visit with the people in charge, they might be able to do an in-service for the staff. Then you could be the leader of the in-service.
>> 
>> 
>>>> On Aug 14, 2020, at 11:34 AM, Lauren Merryfield via Blind-Rollers <blind-rollers at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi, Jane,
>>> The biggest stumbling block is getting the staff to allow me to even do that outside of my room. They were successful in refusing to allow me to use my power chair anywhere except in my room. There really is not much space at all in my room to maneuver my wheelchair.  Of course, they allow me to be wheeled outside of my room.
>>> 
>>> The nurses wouldn't be that bad, haha, but the c n a's and other residents would complain if I accidentally tapped them on the foot or leg. Not that this would hurt them, but they would complain anyway.  I would have to contact our ombudsman about it again if the staff here didn't allow me to travel on my own here.
>>> 
>>> How do I learn from those guys, Doug Boone is someone I certainly remember. The guy in Louisiana I have not heard of.
>>> 
>>> How do I find leather/synthetic kits that I could do; that would be easy enough for a beginner? I need to find other things to do besides the computer and crocheting.
>>> 
>>> My upper body is fairly strong; I do workouts with a pt lady, Debbie.
>>> 
>>> Blessings,
>>> Lauren
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Blind-Rollers <blind-rollers-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of 
>>> Jane Lansaw via Blind-Rollers
>>> Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2020 1:49 PM
>>> To: Blind wheelchair users list <blind-rollers at nfbnet.org>
>>> Cc: Jane Lansaw <lansaw at icloud.com>
>>> Subject: Re: [Blind-Rollers] Guiding wheelchairs
>>> 
>>> Hey Loren, good to hear from you again. I am so sorry to hear about your health issues and will keep you in my prayers. I did get to talk to your sister a little bit and some of the convention zooms and I got to watch her on the Nebraska anniversary zoom. I don’t know what the cylinder is but knowing Barbara, it probably has a different name. LOL.
>>> As for wheelchair mobility, we were taught by Doug Boone some cool techniques but I have picked up more since then from a man named Scott Crawford out of the affiliate a blind of Louisiana.
>>> If you still have your upper body strength and mobility, you can get a longer cane so you can clear a path and find your obstacles and drop offs. You just have to make sure you don’t roll backward without sweeping first just like when you’re walking. Your terms are going to be a little more difficult but with a little practice, you should be experienced enough with a cane to figure them out. Just try not to take any door jams off or take out any nurses. LOL.  OK, one or two nurses but no more.
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>>>> On Aug 13, 2020, at 12:13 PM, Lauren Merryfield via Blind-Rollers <blind-rollers at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Hi,
>>>> And I can't help it!  I want my guide leopard!
>>>> Lauren
>>>> 
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Blind-Rollers <blind-rollers-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of 
>>>> Jane Lansaw via Blind-Rollers
>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2020 8:41 AM
>>>> To: Blind wheelchair users list <blind-rollers at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Cc: Jane Lansaw <lansaw at icloud.com>
>>>> Subject: Re: [Blind-Rollers] Guiding wheelchairs
>>>> 
>>>> Hi Becky and Maureen,
>>>> About a year and a half ago, I went through every dog guide school in the United States, calling them one by one. Every dog guide school referred me to another except for guide dogs for the blind in San Rafael.  I had a client in a wheelchair who wanted a dog guide. Unfortunately, when I ended at California, they told me that they stopped training dog guides for wheelchair users because they were not getting enough applicants to used wheelchairs and their trainers were not working at keeping their skills up as blind wheelchair travelers.
>>>> I think if you get enough wheelchair users interested in getting dog guides, you might be able to persuade them to revisit the program but it will take some time because they will have to retrain all of their trainers. I actually approved of this because I was glad to see that they were working at their blindness skills. You always hear stories about dog guide trainers being required to travel with the dog nonvisual late to make sure that the dog can do everything he or she is purported to be able to do. Still, I don’t think that dog guide trainers get very much non-visual training.
>>>> I was fortunate enough to be allowed to train for apprentices at guide dogs to Texas when I was teaching can travel down there.  I spent two days under blindfold with me and did a very good job. Go dog trainers tend to be a bit more athletic and aware of their bodies in space than most folks and usually catch on pretty quickly. With a regular student I wouldn’t expect to have them crossing major later dinner sections on the second day but with these guys I was able to take them to a major intersection in San Antonio where we had five streets coming together. I checked everyone’s blindfold and one by one, ask them to tell me what the cars were doing. They did a fantastic job of identifying they’re turning traffic and when it was safe to cross. I was thrilled with their performance.
>>>> I can’t promise That all dog guide trainers do that well under blindfold but it made me feel better about the amount of time that the trainer spends under the blindfold. When San Rafael told me that their trainers were out of practice, I appreciated their desire to stop training dogs for wheelchair users if they could not maintain their own skills.
>>>> This is why I think if you get maybe 10 or so people together who want to get dog guides, you might be able to convince one of the schools to return to wheelchair training the trainers. Then when they are ready for you, they could do specialized classes and be prepared as they need to be.   This is a great list to talk about this. If everyone gets together and picks one or two schools to petition, you might have some luck.
>>>> 
>>>> Jane Lansaw
>>>> NOMC
>>>> Tulsa Oklahoma
>>>> 
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>> 
>>>>>> On Aug 13, 2020, at 9:43 AM, maureen Pranghofer via Blind-Rollers <blind-rollers at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Hi Becky
>>>>> I went down the road several years ago and at that time Southeast 
>>>>> Guidedog in Florida was doing it but only to graduates of that school.
>>>>> Since then I'd heard that Paws with a Cause and Leader Dog were 
>>>>> doing it but that was several years ago.
>>>>> Maureen
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: Blind-Rollers <blind-rollers-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of 
>>>>> Becky Frankeberger via Blind-Rollers
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2020 9:23 AM
>>>>> To: 'Blind wheelchair users list' <blind-rollers at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Cc: Becky Frankeberger <b.butterfly at comcast.net>
>>>>> Subject: [Blind-Rollers] Guiding wheelchairs
>>>>> 
>>>>> Are there any schools flexible enough to train a dog for a 
>>>>> wheelchair user who is totally blind. I am asking for my friend and 
>>>>> maybe myself for the future.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Warmly,
>>>>> 
>>>>> Becky
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Blind-Rollers mailing list
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>>>>> 
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>>>> 
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>> mp;data=02%7C01%7C%7Cfca8783d70bb48e5024208d840afc1be%7C84df9e7fe9f640
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