[blindkid] Audio Description; art or skill?

Carrie Gilmer carrie.gilmer at gmail.com
Fri Dec 5 15:01:54 UTC 2008


Dear Mike, and Eric,

I disagree that description is an art--I would say it is a skill, and a
trainable one. It is my understanding that a major part of the NFB's
perceived resistance to audio description was that as usual first things did
not come first. We wanted (and still do) description (reading) of the
running text, especially for emergency broadcast information as one
important example. They are finally including that seriously in the
discussion/proposals. It is kind of like the money--yes we would like it
more accessible, but we really want jobs, and we want the money done in a
way that is reasonable and makes sense and benefits the blind without
putting an undue burden on society or giving some false notion of what the
blind need.

That said, when Jordan was in sixth grade he came home with the following
first term grade slip for social studies:
A,A,A,A,D,A,A,D,A,A,A,C-,A,Excused,A,A,A,A,A,A,D.

All the D's, the C- and the excused were classroom videos with accompanying
assignments. He had been given no access. It was my first clear indication
of how often video got used in the higher grades (use has increased both
yearly and in type of class all the way through) and how often it was graded
or a key component to curriculum.  

I became concerned about access for kids and educational videos. It was a
huge problem to have a classmate or even teacher try and describe: as has
been mentioned they often describe things that don't matter like hair color
or talk over dialogue...I found a company based in Minnesota that does audio
description, CaptionMax. I began to talk with them. The owner and chief
scientist I found to be much like Ray Kurzweil. He valued the people who
would be using his product, and included deaf, blind and deaf-blind people
in his employment and in advisory positions. He understood that things had
to be designed from real people's experience and perspective from the ground
up. One also has to have a master's in English to do the actual description
or captioning at his company. He has taken all feedback seriously, and
listened to my concerns too about control for the blind individual.

When Jordan came to high school age he was asked to join their consumer
advisory board and we have worked closely with them ever since. They only do
educational video at this point. However, increasingly Movies considered
entertainment are used in the classroom: Schindler's List, Romeo and Juliet,
The Great Debaters are recent examples of films that were actually part of
Jordan's curriculum, and had written assignments with the viewing of the
film. Including testing on the analysis.

Hopefully, text like you speak of Mike, on a Braille display, could become
available and would be valuable for the deaf/blind population as well. I can
tell you these things are being thought of. In the post I sent with the
links to the CaptionMax videos, there are many great choices, lots of
science ones too, and they make feedback a requirement (as it is part of the
grant) but it is a way to get a lot more consumer feedback too, which they
definitely want.

We have a long way to go, but it is being done, I feel it is important for
educational access in many instances and I feel it is important to get our
voice in there. I agree with the positions we have taken to get first things
first. 


Sincerely, 
 
Carrie Gilmer, President
National Organization of Parents of Blind Children
A Division of the National Federation of the Blind
NFB National Center: 410-659-9314
Home Phone: 763-784-8590
carrie.gilmer at gmail.com
www.nfb.org/nopbc

-----Original Message-----
From: blindkid-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindkid-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Mike Freeman
Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 11:27 PM
To: NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List,(for parents of blind children)
Subject: Re: [blindkid] Fwd: Once a rider, always a rider

Eric:

If description is an art, as you say, how can one legitimately require 
it? After all, if one requires something in law, one has to have a valid 
standard by which to measure whether or not an entity has complied with 
the law.

That was and is NFB's problem with *mandating* described video; we 
certainly aren't opposed to having it made available. But if it's an 
art, mandating it could present some First Amendment problems. 
(Incidentally, are symphony orchestras in violation of the law because 
they cannot present their output to the deaf?)

In a slightly diferent vein, although I agree with you that well-done 
described video is fairly unobtrusive ("Saving Private Ryan" was quite 
well-done), it's still hard not to cover up sound effects -- sounds 
which, both in life and in movies, are often vital to comprehension by 
the blind.

What *I'd* like to see is descriptions be made available as braille 
booklets that one could read along with the movies rather than as audio 
descriptions. That way, one could encourage braille reading and one 
would avoid completely the hassle of trying to figure out how to fit 
descriptions into DVD menus which, after all, aren't really standard --  
at least not yet. And the sound wouldn't be interfered with. I might 
even grudgingly be in favor of such booklets being available in large 
print. (grin)

Mike Freeman

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "DrV" <icdx at earthlink.net>
To: "NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List,(for parents of blind children)" 
<blindkid at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 5:22 PM
Subject: Re: [blindkid] Fwd: Once a rider, always a rider


Carrie-> You have a (another) natural talent! Beautiful description! I
imagined my boys on that Harley!

On the more serious side, being able to audiodescribe what is on the 
screen
really is an art.
I have seen/heard very good & very poor descriptions.
Most of the professionally done audiodescriptions for movies have made 
it
more enjoyable & completely tangible for my kids & when done well the
narration naturally blends into the movie & is not really all that 
obvious.
Most of us get pretty good at describing things over time, but I have to
admit it is nice to kick back & enjoy a movie & then just add in my own
commentaries like I would with anyone, sighted or not.
I know this gets debated.
For many movies, the added description is not absolutely critical to
enjoying & getting the gist of the movie, but the added description does
enhance the experience if done well.
It really would not be all that hard to add the audiodescription track
option to DVDs & I would be in favor of just requiring it.
I think this videoclip illustrates this very nicely.
Best wishes,
Eric V

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Carrie Gilmer" <carrie.gilmer at gmail.com>
To: "'NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List,(for parents of blind children)'"
<blindkid at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 11:33
Subject: Re: [blindkid] Fwd: Once a rider, always a rider


>I was thinking as I watched it that without audio description you would
>miss
> much, well everything as there is no dialougue. A man with dark 
> glasses
> and
> a cane walks into a obvious motorcycle harley Davidson store with a 
> woman,
> they go down some stairs he holds her arm but also uses his cane and a
> store
> sales clerk approaches. The woman motions to indicate it is not me 
> here to
> look but him, the store clerk begins to show the man a bike (harley 
> motor
> cycle), he looks at several bikes, walks around using his cane, and 
> uses
> his
> cane to tap one like someone might stereotypically kick a car tire at 
> a
> car
> lot when buying. Then he finds one he likes and he rather dramatically
> hands
> his cane to the store clerk who takes it and the man climbs on the 
> bike,
> he
> looks very happy about trying it like he found the one he wanted. Then 
> the
> next thing you see is it appears a close up of this man driving the 
> bike
> down the road. Then the camera pans out and he is on the bike on a 
> trailer
> being pulled by a car being driven by the woman who gives some visual
> indication expression of okay he is happy now so I am happy kind of 
> thing.
> Then it shows the back of he man wearing a harley leather jacket with 
> the
> words "born to be blind" with two canes crossed like an X and then 
> there
> is
> the words: Lotto millionaires are not like ordinary millionaires.
>
> Like I said it is not perfect...but it is not bad unless I am missing
> something.
>
>
>
> Carrie Gilmer, President
> National Organization of Parents of Blind Children
> A Division of the National Federation of the Blind
> NFB National Center: 410-659-9314
> Home Phone: 763-784-8590
> carrie.gilmer at gmail.com
> www.nfb.org/nopbc
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindkid-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindkid-bounces at nfbnet.org] 
> On
> Behalf Of trising at sbcglobal.net
> Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 12:52 PM
> To: NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List,(for parents of blind children)
> Subject: Re: [blindkid] Fwd: Once a rider, always a rider
>
> I was thinking the same thing. I did not get it.
>
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