[blindkid] can I get the other side? "Hassle to get Braille?"

Mon Mar 2 22:58:15 UTC 2009

Exactly Eric, and excellent point. This is exactly why I say it from my same
experiences that it is evident that the unreasonable bent towards large
print and the excuses for not giving Braille come from nothing but plain ol'
sighted bias.

Carrie Gilmer, President
National Organization of Parents of Blind Children
A Division of the National Federation of the Blind
NFB National Center: 410-659-9314
Home Phone: 763-784-8590
carrie.gilmer at gmail.com
www.nfb.org/nopbc
-----Original Message-----
From: blindkid-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindkid-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of DrV
Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 3:44 PM
To: NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List,(for parents of blind children)
Subject: Re: [blindkid] can I get the other side? "Hassle to get Braille?"

Carrie,
You mention the "hassle to get Braille" factor.
We have certainly have had (& continue to experience) struggles getting some

materials brailled & brailled on time - this is exasperating to be sure, but

when it comes to novels for school & books for pleasure reading it seems 
like it with increasing frequency, it is much easier to get our hands on a 
braille version than it might be to get a large-print version.
I am on a California Dept of Ed TVI/Transcriber list-serve, & while have not

kept a tally, it seems like there are many more requests seeking out large 
print versions of books.
In an effort to be proactive, a month or so ago I sought out a copy of the 
7th grade summer reading list. I was able to download all but 2 or 3 of the 
books from either Bookshare or Webbraille. We put in a request to Bookshare 
for the remaining 2 or 3 books & they have already been done or soon will be

completed. This is nothing short of amazing! And the selection of braille 
accessible books, especially for kids, seems to be growing at an incredible 
rate.
Before the Braille Readers are Leaders I end up searching through Bookshare 
or Webbraille for interesting books & sometimes have downloaded 20-100 in 
just one evening - & it all fits on a tiny compact flash card. Can you do 
that with large print?
Eric V

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Carrie Gilmer" <carrie.gilmer at gmail.com>
To: "'NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List,(for parents of blind children)'" 
<blindkid at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, March 01, 2009 12:29
Subject: Re: [blindkid] can I get the other side?

> Dear Leah,
> First let me say, I think you are an extraordinarily wonderful and
> thoughtful person.
>
> Second as regards #2: "Braille cannot be learned by those with some 
> vision".
> Well, there are decades and decades of evidence that vision itself has
> nothing to do with the ability or inability to learn Braille by touch. (it
> is about practice by the way-shockingly like anything else, smile) If it
> could not be learned by touch if you have vision then what about the
> thousands of blind people with low vision who have learned it by touch?
> Thousands can not be a mere exception to some rule.
>
> My own son is one of them. He has some low vision, and he is a primary
> Braille reader (Meaning for anything over a few sentences he strongly
> prefers Braille or must have Braille for access or fatigue issues), and a
> dual reader (meaning he can read large print with magnifying glasses, and
> sometimes it is convenient especially for graphs, maps and photos and
> illustrations, for the first time in years he has chosen to read his giant
> print bible chapter by chapter, he likes giant comics and drawing them
> himself, sometimes the thing just doesn't come in Braille and he is
> fortunate now to have that convenience--we don't know how long it will 
> last)
> and a dual writer (He can write long things faster on his six key
> braillenote than anything, he can type very well, and he though often
> chooses to read his math book with his left hand and write the (now
> calculus) answers with his right. He uses a standard black pen or pencil 
> and
> can read his writing and it is about 14-16 point in size. This only works
> well for math or fill in the blanks.
>
> HOWEVER--he is only proficient in Braille because he was love-forced to 
> read
> it with his fingers and not his eyes and he began to actually get it and 
> use
> it ALL DAY LONG. It is kind of (not quite) like touch typing-those who 
> have
> to look can never type as fast as those who can by touch. Dr. Ruby Ryles
> expects her graduates to read Braille by sight at a minimum 70 wpm I
> believe. I suppose that one could read it by sight much quicker, but again
> that would be someone who had full sight and could scan ahead quickly and 
> it
> did not take energy to just see it.
>
> But it is ridiculous and makes no sense to have a blind or low vision 
> child
> read it by sight up to their noses too and slowed down putting energy into
> seeing it. That is the whole point of Braille for them in that it requires
> no vision.
>
> So why do they say it can not be done? It is because they do not WANT it 
> to
> be done. They do not want the child to HAVE to learn that hard ol',
> stigmatizing, bulky, slow,(all the myths about it) Braille and then if 
> they
> do, well that means they are going to have to work a bit harder (and hone
> their own skills with it) for awhile themselves. It is much easier for the
> teacher to stick a CCTV in the room than to get each lesson ahead and plan
> and carry out the Brailling. But, I have seen teachers go to ridiculous
> lengths and cost and create workspace, to enlarge something, but cry it is
> so much work, expense, and space taking, and a hassle to get Braille. This
> is nothing but the nature of prejudice in my opinion and experience. It is

> a
> belief that print like vision is superior no matter how inefficient or
> unreasonable in reality.
>
> And force simply means pushes or pulls, or keeps a thing where it is, or
> changes direction of a thing. Force can be applied with evil intent, often
> is, and of course that is a bad thing. But force can be applied with the
> intents of true love too, and it is I think then the strongest force in 
> the
> universe. Sometimes things must be pulled or pushed or moved or changed in
> direction, or kept where they are, for the good.
>
> It would be such a fun lunch to have with you and Mike Freeman about the
> philosophical and physical forces in the universe! Hey Mike? Smile
>
>
>
> Carrie Gilmer, President
> National Organization of Parents of Blind Children
> A Division of the National Federation of the Blind
> NFB National Center: 410-659-9314
> Home Phone: 763-784-8590
> carrie.gilmer at gmail.com
> www.nfb.org/nopbc
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindkid-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindkid-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Leah
> Sent: Sunday, March 01, 2009 11:46 AM
> To: blindkid at nfbnet.org
> Subject: Re: [blindkid] can I get the other side?
>
> I certainly got some meaty answers to my questions!
>
> Joe, thank you for your story. I'm not dead set on learning Braille by
> touch, but there are two reasons I am experimenting lightly with it:
> 1. I have a little eye problem myself, and I wonder if I was someday
> able to read by touch, if I could save some function. I use my eyes to
> compensate for a damaged balance mechanism and it can be overly
> demanding on the eyes.
> 2. I am still curious at the belief of some who say Braille cannot be
> learned by those with some vision (unfortunately they are our local
> professionals). So I feel the letters just watching my learning
> process, to see if something really does come up that prevents me from
> identifying by touch. I'm going to keep doing this a little longer,
> because I can only identify some letters and no words.
>
> But, I will try to remember what you say and will give myself
> permission to read it visually to get the job done if need be!
>
> Carrie, thank you. I especially liked what you said about
> stigmatization affecting people's ability to deal with accommodating
> their own disability. And I thought what you said about being forceful
> was very bold! I had not thought about it in degrees. You certainly
> reclaim the word force as a positive thing!
>
> And Steve, I really appreciate practical examples because that is how
> I best learn. In fact, I would like to ask if you would mind if I
> quoted your examples anonymously if I write an article about extremism
> on my blog. I will totally understand if you decline and I am still
> grateful for what you wrote.
>
> Leah
>
>
>
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