[blindkid] discussion threads, was Re: Technology and Little Kid

Fri Feb 19 14:07:08 UTC 2010

    Exactly.  This really is quite civilized.  No one here is being 
disrespectful in my opinion.  Strong willed?  Heck yeah.  Passionate about 
their views?  No doubt.  Even a bit frustrated or sharp?  Sometimes.  But, 
this is how people in the real world talk and discuss.  Some of the best 
things I have learned, the most ensightful trains of thought that I have 
come up with or listened to other people come up with, some of the most 
enlightening exchanges contain a few hot words, a bit of hyperbole and a lot 
of genuine thought and feeling.  When we debate raw meaty bones type feeding 
vs the BARF raw diet for dogs on my german shepherd list, people often toss 
around words and phrases like "Yeah, if you want to kill your dog with 
that." or "I'd never do that in a million years."  On my attachment 
parenting list, there are very empassioned debates about vaxenes, in which 
things can get a bit hairy, and they even do sware on that list, but we are 
all suportive of one another, and understand that with issues you feel 
strongly about sometimes things get said that are a bit crazy, but the same 
woman who responded to my question about whether or not she would give her 
child the swine flue vaxine with "Like hell, you've got to be joking, 
Heather." was also there to tell me to hang in there when Jeremy's biting 
stage and some cloth diapering issues were making me question some of my 
attachment parenting ideals.  A very brilliant, very opinionated woman on 
our GSD list basically strongly critasized some of the practices of my, at 
the time, current guide dog school, calling them irrisponsible and 
neglegent.  Some of what she said was true, some was false, and some was 
true, but blown out of preportion, but when I had to retire my GSD guide 
because of health and work issues, her reaction of sympathy for my loss and 
my greeving was just as honest and intense as her arguements against some of 
Fidelco's practices.  Rambling again, but point is, human beings have 
emotions, and those creep into their accademic debates, especially when 
those debates center around issues that have affected them or could affect 
their children, and as long as no one is being intentionally cruel, that is 
a good thing.  I always try to be blunt and honest.  I find myself many many 
times a day writing to someone's post "You said A B and C, and I think 
you're dead wrong, but I think your points D E And F were spot on and I 
never would have thought of E, that is very insightful.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Albert J Rizzi" <albert at myblindspot.org>
To: "'NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List,(for parents of blind children)'" 
<blindkid at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, February 19, 2010 8:20 AM
Subject: Re: [blindkid] Technology and Little Kid


>I agree with you here. Just because expressive language is used, and simple
> text without inflection  should not be interpreted as disrespectful. We
> should not read our own emotions into someone else's posts. I also agree
> with you that the simple one line answer of slate and stylus  set me off
> because  it just did not, in my opinion, answer the question. It did
> however, get one great thread going.
>
> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
> CEO/Founder
> My Blind Spot, Inc.
> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
> New York, New York  10004
> www.myblindspot.org
> PH: 917-553-0347
> Fax: 212-858-5759
> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who is
> doing it."
>
>
> Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindkid-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindkid-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Heather
> Sent: Thursday, February 18, 2010 9:15 PM
> To: NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List,(for parents of blind children)
> Subject: Re: [blindkid] Technology and Little Kid
>
> Wo, hold up.  A.  I am deffinitly strong minded, but I wouldn't say
> disrespectful.  I hate that emotion and expression cannot be easily 
> conveyed
>
> online.  Anything I say, I say, erm, not in gest, how to put it, with an
> aimiable expression on my face, with a veahament but not nasty tone in my
> voice.  If I wanted to be disrespectful, which I do not, I could easily go
> around spouting "Your opinions are sh--, and you are f-----g stupid" 
> calling
>
> names and being horrible and childish.  I don't call names, but I do 
> totally
>
> rib people.  I admit it freely, but I do the same things in person in
> everything from my classes in college to professional conventions and
> forums, and no one seems to get this offended, so some of it must really 
> be
> the electronic barrier.  B.  The origional post that really pushed my, 
> let's
>
> get debating and discussing button was a post with only the words "Braille
> slate" or "Slate and styalis" in it.  This bothered me as a mother of a
> blind child a blind toddler, and an early childhood educator, because when
> asked what technologies a four year old should have to keep up with their
> peers, the first things should be adapted games that they can play with
> their blind and sighted friends, toys that will encourage their
> imaginations, and educational toys that premote early math and early
> literacy skills, and to just toss out a one word response that is a cold
> fully adult product, with no thought to psychosocial, or social-emotional
> development really concerned me.  I never, ever, ever said "Slates have no
> value whatsoever, keep them far away from all children everywhere."  I
> questioned their importance and workability when compared with other tools
> that premote literacy, I questioned at what age a child would be 
> cognatively
>
> and physically ready to use one, and I expressed the great importance of 
> so
> many other benificial, and not always strictly educational technologies in 
> a
>
> young child's life.  and C.  Um, I am blind, totally blind, have a slate,
> hate it, but can use it and would not refuse to teach it to my son, simply
> because as a visual learner and big fan of instant gratification
> *impatiently sneeks a finger under the edge of the slate to try and see 
> what
>
> is coming out on the back of the paper, and gets pinched* I am not a big 
> fan
>
> of the slate.
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "David Andrews" <dandrews at visi.com>
> To: "NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List,(for parents of blind children)"
> <blindkid at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Thursday, February 18, 2010 3:48 PM
> Subject: Re: [blindkid] Technology and Little Kid
>
>
>> Heather:
>>
>> I hate getting into this (smile) because everybody won't agree, but .....
>>
>> First I must ask you and others to treat the opinions and positions of
>> others with more respect.  While they may be different from yours, the
>> people who state them presumably have good reasons for stating them, as 
>> do
>
>> you.
>>
>> Next, I find your generalizations about the slate to be disturbing and
>> depressing.  I don't know you, or your place in life, but I would guess
>> you are a sighted person, possibly with a blind child.  You mention a
>> blind Mother.
>>
>> Would you, as a sighted person give up a pencil or pen and paper.  I 
>> doubt
>
>> it.  While you may not use them all the time, when you need them, nothing
>> else will do.  This is in part what the slate and stylus are for blind
>> persons.  Yes, many people, including blind persons will put them down,
>> but I suspect that in many instances they have not been taught well, so
>> are minimized.  While we teach kids to write with a pencil before e 
>> giving
>
>> them a computer as a primary tool, we think nothing about having them
>> learn to write with a Braille Writer, then give them a slate.  Who would
>> want it then.
>>
>> I am one of those over-50 persons you mention.  I use the slate 
>> regularly,
>
>> as I also use technology.  I have used technology heavily since the early
>> 80's, and was the first Director of the NFB's International Braille and
>> Technology Center, and still make my living with technology.  So, I don't
>> think you can plausibly say I couldn't adjust to technology.  Likewise,
>> Mike  Freeman who wrote the original message which you seemed to hold in
>> such disdain has been a computer programmer since the early 80's I think,
>> uses talking cell phone, Braille Sense, etc.  We love our technology, but
>> want to have all possible tools available to us, including the slate.
>>
>> A couple years ago, I attended a training session, costing over $500.  It
>> was Minnesota and the winter and I slipped and fell, on the ice, on my 
>> way
>
>> there.  When I got there, I discovered my Pac Mate wouldn't work.  So, if
>> I hadn't also had a slate and stylus and been proficient with their use,
>> it would have been $500 down the drain because I couldn't take notes.
>>
>> Blind people need all the tools we can get, and we need to use the right
>> one at the right time.  That includes the slate and stylus which is good
>> for quick notes, in emergencies, where there is no electricity or when
>> batteries are dead, and much more.
>>
>> Dave
>>
>>
>> At 07:05 AM 2/18/2010, you wrote:
>>>No disrespect, but you've got to be kidding me.  No blind people I know,
>>>children or adults, down right brilliant to mentally challenged, men or
>>>women use those anymore.  Many own them, and could use them in a pinch,
>>>but honestly, no one uses them as a main means of writing or on a regular
>>>basis. Some people in the fifty or older set still rely on them, because
>>>they were not able to keep up with the changing technology, which I can
>>>understand and sympathize with, but even my sixty year old blind mother
>>>laughed when I showed her this, or rather told her that this had come up
>>>on list.  For confidentiality reasons I never show any one who is not on
>>>the list, list emails, and never give names or any spacifics..  I could
>>>honestly say that I know over two hundred to three hundred blind people,
>>>and I asked on a list serve for guide dog users, one for blind parents 
>>>and
>
>>>one for blind students, and the uunanomous answer was "You've got to be
>>>kidding"  I think her four year old would best be served to learn how to
>>>use a cell phone or home phone to call his mother and to dial 911.  I
>>>think he should be learning on a braille note, voice recorder or how to
>>>use a victor reader or ipod touch. Things like that, plus basic braille
>>>and print literacy.
>>>----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Freeman" <k7uij at panix.com>
>>>To: "NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List,(for parents of blind children)"
>>><blindkid at nfbnet.org>
>>>Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2010 10:46 PM
>>>Subject: Re: [blindkid] Technology and Little Kid
>>>
>>>
>>>>A slate and stylus!
>>>>
>>>>Mike
>>>>
>>>>----- Original Message ----- From: "David Andrews" <dandrews at visi.com>
>>>>To: <blindkid at nfbnet.org>
>>>>Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2010 7:01 PM
>>>>Subject: [blindkid] Technology and Little Kid
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>I got asked a question, the other day, and since most of my experience
>>>>>is with blind adults -- I didn't know quite what to say.  A woman said
>>>>>she had a four year old totally blind daughter, and she wanted her to
>>>>>keep up with her peers in technology, so what assistive
>>>>>technology/technology is here  -- should she start using with her 
>>>>>child?
>>>>>
>>>>>Dave
>>
>>
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