[blindkid] MacBook Pro

Albert J Rizzi albert at myblindspot.org
Sat Feb 27 16:06:07 UTC 2010


I agree with you on as I have in  other instances, education and mitigation
are key here. There is a broad world wide movement to make things as
accessible as possible, and it is moving ever slowly but moving it is. I did
not mean to relay anything other then the fact that small business  or
large, there are key tax incentives which off set the costs to make sites
compliant. If we educate techies on the importance of universal design we
will ensure that all sites built going forward, and yes I feel all is
possible, they will build sites right the first time and then tweak them as
technologies improve. By making this a focus, we ensure equal access to
information for our children in the schools and most definitely in the work
arena as well. Most do go kicking and screaming but those of us dependent on
assistive technologies must scream louder to keep the doors of hope and
opportunity open for our blind youth.

Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
CEO/Founder
My Blind Spot, Inc.
90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
New York, New York  10004
www.myblindspot.org
PH: 917-553-0347
Fax: 212-858-5759
"The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who is
doing it."


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-----Original Message-----
From: blindkid-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindkid-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Richard Holloway
Sent: Friday, February 26, 2010 5:46 PM
To: NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List,(for parents of blind children)
Subject: Re: [blindkid] MacBook Pro

I don't want to turn this into another huge debate as it seems a bit  
beyond the scope of the question that was asked as well as outside of  
this forum's general area of discussion.

I don't think it is rhetoric to suggest that $10,000 is beyond the  
budget of a great many small companies or that there are a literally  
millions of personal and other small sites of various non-business- 
related functions which would have no reasonable chance of compliance.  
Now factor in every non-US based web site on the planet. This is just  
not simple to solve.

Going after a Target or a Wal Mart sort of a company that is being  
unreasonable makes a good deal of sense but we're never going to  
**force** everyone to comply and even if we did, the negative reaction  
towards blind people by many who had been, at the least frustrated,  
and possibly even forced to remove web sites due to non-compliance  
could be substantial, to say the least.

How about making businesses as aware as possible of the benefits of  
compliant sites and working with the likes of Adobe and other web  
design software sources to encourage every effort be made to help  
fledgling web designers produce sites that are as easy as possible for  
the physically disabled to navigate.

At least that's where I'd start.

Richard



On Feb 26, 2010, at 9:04 AM, Albert J Rizzi wrote:

> I am familiar with this lawsuit. I would ask you to keep your mind  
> open to
> considering how simple it is to make any site accessible, provided  
> one has
> the IT knowledge, appreciation and understanding of universal design  
> when
> crafting or updating a site. Without having all companies, federal or
> otherwise, adhere to the section 508 compliance issues, our  
> community of
> blind students and adults will forever be at a critical  
> disadvantage  and
> will continue to be unemployed  or under employed. It is not just  
> the web
> sites we search that complicate it is the intra nets which also need  
> to be
> accessible in order to shift the 70 to 80% unemployment rates  
> amongst the
> blind. it is a simple coding process which would allow assistive
> technologies and software to work. It is also not that expensive. My  
> company
> and I have partnered  with tecaccess.net to make accessibility for  
> all a
> reality. It costs a little over 10k for a small to mid size  
> business  to
> make it's intra and inter nets accessible, and before you say how  
> expensive
> that is, know that the government gives a 10k tax incentive or  
> credit once a
> business makes their sites accessible. Schools, municipalities and any
> institution getting federal funding are required by law to adhere to  
> these
> laws, and there are federal grants available to offset the costs to  
> make
> sites compliant. I am working on making my county on long island the  
> most
> compliant in our state and have meetings with every school district
> scheduled for the 14th of April and a meeting with our town and county
> officials to educate and mitigate this unfortunate  avoidance of  
> adherence.
> it is not all that expensive and when a tech team is introduced to the
> concept they get it and say what have we been waiting for and they  
> get on
> it. do not fall prey to the rhetoric of it is to expensive. it is  
> not in
> comparison to the dollars spent on public assistance and the loss of  
> tax
> revenues when we block employment for nearly 40 million people who  
> can work.
> Assistive technologies are also options in peoples lives with  
> paralysis and
> cognitive delays. It is economics 101, supply and demand. Demand
> accessibility and they will supply it.
>
> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
> CEO/Founder
> My Blind Spot, Inc.
> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
> New York, New York  10004
> www.myblindspot.org
> PH: 917-553-0347
> Fax: 212-858-5759
> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one  
> who is
> doing it."
>
>
> Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindkid-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindkid- 
> bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Richard Holloway
> Sent: Friday, February 26, 2010 12:44 AM
> To: NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List,(for parents of blind children)
> Subject: Re: [blindkid] MacBook Pro
>
> The NFB actually already sued Target over web concerns back in 2006.
>
> Here is a USA Today article from when this was first filed:
> http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2006-10-25-blind_x.htm
>
> If you google Case No.:  C 06-01802 MHP you can find many details of
> the NFB case and the settlement.
>
> Part of me wants to jump on board and say yes, make everyone comply
> but in reality the very nature of the web makes that unrealistic or
> really just plain impossible. While we may be able to get a big
> company like Target to comply by law, we have to remember too that
> many web pages are setup by small groups or single individuals with
> little budget or very often for no money.
>
> Many people could not afford to make existing sites compliment, and if
> they were forced, all they could do would be to take the site off-
> line; sort of the opposite result of what I think most of us would
> hope to achieve.
>
> On the brighter side, I do think that over time design software
> improvements alone will help future sites a lot. For example when I
> upgraded to the CS3 release of Dreamweaver (web design software I like
> to use) they had set a default to remind you to add alternative text
> descriptions-- something that can be easy to overlook. I really think
> that better educated web designers and improved software are the most
> probable ways that most sites are going to improve in the future.
>
> Richard
>
>
>
>
> On Feb 25, 2010, at 3:53 PM, Albert J Rizzi wrote:
>
>> In that vein what are we as an organization  doing to educate and
>> mitigate
>> in these instances? Ignorance is bliss but it is putting our
>> community at a
>> needless disadvantage. With all the technological advancements and  
>> the
>> present legislation in place how do we effectively voice our need for
>> attention to these details? It is simple to do yet without a law
>> suit or a
>> screaming match it seems little attention is paid to our inter and
>> intra net
>> access needs.
>>
>> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
>> CEO/Founder
>> My Blind Spot, Inc.
>> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
>> New York, New York  10004
>> www.myblindspot.org
>> PH: 917-553-0347
>> Fax: 212-858-5759
>> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one
>> who is
>> doing it."
>>
>>
>> Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: blindkid-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindkid-
>> bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf Of Thea Eaton
>> Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2010 11:48 PM
>> To: 'NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List,(for parents of blind children)'
>> Subject: Re: [blindkid] MacBook Pro
>>
>> Yes, all Flash content is accessible to JAWS, Window Eyes and Hal,
>> as long
>> as - just like in HTML- the content is tagged and set up for
>> accessibility.
>>
>> Especially for older kids, I would choose a computer that can access
>> Flash.
>> Most high school textbooks are being migrated to the web, and will
>> have
>> Flash content. We have just finished a line of accessible enrichment
>> activities for Harcourt School, for example, that accompany their
>> online
>> textbooks. All these activities are on the web, in Flash and go hand
>> in hand
>> with their textbooks. Pearson education is also migrating their
>> assessments
>> online, in Flash. Many of their educational eBooks are also Flash
>> based. All
>> these learning materials will not be accessible on a Mac, because
>> you will
>> only be limited to HTML content, which might be fine for browsing a
>> large
>> portion of the web, but any interactivity such as eBooks, learning
>> materials, audio and video, will be inaccessible.
>>
>> Thea Eaton
>> DoodleDoo
>> www.doodledoo.com
>> Where early birds learn.
>> 1-888-42 DOODLE
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: blindkid-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindkid-
>> bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf Of Sally Thomas
>> Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2010 7:04 PM
>> To: NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List, (for parents of blind children)
>> Subject: Re: [blindkid] MacBook Pro
>>
>> I'm interested in the usefulness of the Mac for older kids.  I hear
>> comments
>>
>> like Heather's about her friend using the Mac so I'm really
>> curious.  My son
>>
>> is past the Cartoon Network stage.
>>
>> When he was younger, Flash sites he tried to access with JAWS were  
>> not
>> accessible.  I guess some of it depends on how the site is
>> designed.  I am
>> sure that all Flash content is not compatible with JAWS.  I'm going
>> to check
>>
>> with the NFB Access Technology Team as Treva suggested to check on
>> usefulness of the Mac for older kids.  I think the suggestion to
>> check with
>> the student division is a good one too.
>>
>> Since it sounds like Apple is going to try to get the iPad placed as
>> an
>> academic tool and since NFB has worked with Apple to improve
>> accessibility,
>> I think the Mac may be a serious contender for older kids.
>>
>> Sally Thomas
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Thea Eaton" <thea at doodledoo.com>
>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List,(for parents of blind children)'"
>> <blindkid at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2010 3:49 PM
>> Subject: Re: [blindkid] MacBook Pro
>>
>>
>>> Apple's Voice Over screen reader is not compatible with Adobe Flash
>>> content.
>>> Screen readers that are Flash compatible like JAWS, Window Eyes and
>>> Hal do
>>> not have a Mac version. This would make all Flash websites for
>>> children,
>>> like Cartoon Network and other accessible Flash sites, inaccessible
>>> on a
>>> Mac. I would therefore not recommend a Mac for children who are
>>> wanting to
>>> use a screen reader to access the web.
>>>
>>>
>>> Thea Eaton
>>> DoodleDoo
>>> www.doodledoo.com
>>> Where early birds learn.
>>> 1-888-42 DOODLE
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: blindkid-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindkid-
>>> bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>> Behalf Of Sally Thomas
>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2010 12:37 PM
>>> To: NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List, (for parents of blind children)
>>> Subject: Re: [blindkid] MacBook Pro
>>>
>>> I believe that it is only the Apple mobile devices that don't  
>>> support
>>> Flash.
>>>
>>> Sally Thomas
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Thea Eaton" <thea at doodledoo.com>
>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List,(for parents of blind  
>>> children)'"
>>> <blindkid at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2010 11:05 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [blindkid] MacBook Pro
>>>
>>>
>>>> As far as I know, most of the screen readers do not run on the Mac.
>>>> Apple's
>>>> own screen reader is very limited to the OS, I think, and is not
>>>> compatible
>>>> with all internet content, like Flash. Because more and more Flash
>>>> content
>>>> is now made accessible to screen reader users, especially  
>>>> children's
>>>> content, I would not recommend getting a Mac, but a PC with an MSAA
>>>> compatible screen reader like JAWS.
>>>>
>>>> Thea Eaton
>>>> DoodleDoo
>>>> www.doodledoo.com
>>>> Where early birds learn.
>>>> 1-888-42 DOODLE
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: blindkid-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindkid-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>>> ] On
>>>> Behalf Of Sally Thomas
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2010 10:27 AM
>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List, (for parents of blind children)
>>>> Subject: [blindkid] MacBook Pro
>>>>
>>>> Do any blind kids you know use a MacBook for school work?  My son
>>>> has an
>>>> iPod Touch which he loves.  He is even able to type and send email
>>>> from
>>>> it
>>>> despite the touch screen.  This has convinced him that a MacBook
>>>> is the
>>>> best
>>>>
>>>> computer for him.  I'm wondering about the limitations of the
>>>> built in
>>>> screen reader or any other idiosyncrasies that would limit its use.
>>>> Since
>>>> it doesn't require the purchase of JAWS or other screen reading
>>>> software,
>>>> it
>>>>
>>>> might be a good choice.
>>>>
>>>> Sally Thomas
>>>>
>>>>
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