[blindkid] Guide dogs for twelve year olds?
Heather
craney07 at rochester.rr.com
Thu Jan 21 02:55:35 UTC 2010
Good point. I have known people whose dogs have caused damage in many ways,
and those who were proactive and responsible about it, avoided legal action
and things were resolved with no detrement to the handler or the dog. I
know a woman who acted deffensive, ignorant and neglegent, and her dog was
put to sleep over a miss-understanding. I would not risk a dog's life on
the control, intelligence, life skills and coping skills of a twelve year
old, it is just not worth it.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Freeman" <k7uij at panix.com>
To: "NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List,(for parents of blind children)"
<blindkid at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2010 5:50 PM
Subject: Re: [blindkid] Guide dogs for twelve year olds?
> Moreover, if, perchance, the dog causes some damage (and, let's be honest,
> it happens), it is the *parents* who are liable, not the teen. This
> muddies the waters of who is responsible for what.
>
> Mike
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Heather" <craney07 at rochester.rr.com>
> To: "NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List,(for parents of blind children)"
> <blindkid at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2010 10:30 AM
> Subject: Re: [blindkid] Guide dogs for twelve year olds?
>
>
>> That's a nice sentament, Really, it is. but that is the point, they
>> can't handel the responsibilities. Even if they accademically understand
>> the ramifications, they, not their parents, they, personally, cannot take
>> the dog to the vet by them self, they can not afford the dog's food, vet
>> care, medications, training equipment, etc, by them self. The dog would
>> have to be owned exclusively by and handeled exclusively by the blind
>> pre-teen, not by the parent, and that simply would not happen in ninety
>> five percent of homes. If the child forgot to feed the dog, the parents
>> would just yell at their kid and then do it for them. They wouldn't let
>> the dog go hungry, and they certainly wouldn't call the school and be
>> honest and admit that their child was not always remembering to feed the
>> dog and reccomend that it be taken away. If the dog was sick, the parent
>> would take the dog to the vet and would never let the child miss school
>> to go with the dog to the vet, and that is what has to happen. A twelve
>> year old does not have the savvey or the clout to realize that vets,
>> doctors, professionals, I.E. professional adults don't always know
>> everything. A twelve year old would never have the confidence or the
>> social position to argue with a vet who wants to give a vaccine, when a
>> tyder would sufice. . If someone is still young enough to be told to go
>> to their room, then they are not old enough to handel a dog. What if the
>> child is grounded for doing something they should not? That dog still
>> needs to be walked and more importantly, worked, and the parents cannot
>> walk, let alone work the dog for their child. The whole thing that makes
>> guide dogs great for independence is for people who take the city bus
>> every day, the subway, walk several blocks, make dangerous street
>> crossings, traverse complex routes. Twelve year olds, unless they live
>> in downtown Manhattan do not have those needs for a dog. For instance,
>> twelve-year-olds take school busses, which pick up within a block of
>> their house, and this is simply not enough work for a guide dog, walking
>> one block twice a day. Walking around one school building all day, as in
>> middle school or junior high is not acceptable either. Now, a college
>> student on a large campus is a whole different thing. Even some blind
>> adults do not have challenging enough travel needs to warrent getting a
>> guide dog. I am all for fostering independence in young people with
>> disabilities, but not at the expense of the dogs, or the rest of the
>> guide dog using community. All it will take is a few twelve and thirteen
>> year olds that can't handel their dogs in public, who might jump up on
>> someone, get into it with another dog on the street, nip at a person's
>> pant leg, for the reputation of successful guide dog teams to be affected
>> by association. Any guide dog could jump on someone, bite someone, grab
>> food off of a restaurant table, knock over a display of china in a store.
>> They are dogs after all. What keeps this from happening is good
>> socialization, good training and good maintainence of that training,
>> which requires a great deal of consistancy, aptitude and maturity. Think
>> about an access issue. It is difficult for some blind adults to deal
>> with a cabbie or a restaurant owner who doesn't want their dog in their
>> cab or their place of business. How is a twelve year old going to cope
>> with this? What adult, who is causing the access issue is going to take a
>> tween seriously? Pre-teens can still be independent, but independent at
>> the level of their sighted, pre-teen counter-parts, not independent on
>> the level of blind and sighted adults. Would you give a car to a twelve
>> year old? A car can be dangerous, a car requires maturity and
>> responsibility, a car is a privilage, not a right, just as is a guide
>> dog. Just some food for thought.
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Albert J Rizzi" <albert at myblindspot.org>
>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List,(for parents of blind children)'"
>> <blindkid at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2010 10:09 AM
>> Subject: Re: [blindkid] Guide dogs for twelve year olds?
>>
>>
>> Here here! Wy set the bar low when in fact a child of 12 years or 13
>> years
>> has the capacity and maturity to handle the responsibility? Isn't it our
>> responsibility to give all children those tools they need based upon
>> their
>> individual abilities to achieve all things possible in their lives. I do
>> not
>> see the reason for nor the reluctance to allow any teenager an
>> opportunity
>> to exercise their choice for mobility and that it include a guide dog.
>>
>> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
>> CEO/Founder
>> My Blind Spot, Inc.
>> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
>> New York, New York 10004
>> www.myblindspot.org
>> PH: 917-553-0347
>> Fax: 212-858-5759
>> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who
>> is
>> doing it."
>>
>>
>> Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: blindkid-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindkid-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf Of Doreen Frappier
>> Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2010 9:40 AM
>> To: (for parents of blind children)NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [blindkid] Guide dogs for twelve year olds?
>>
>> I am not opposed to having responsible 12 year olds own and care for a
>> guide
>> dog. I believe that children mature at different rates. For example, 4-H
>> children own and care for animals (on their own) at very young ages. They
>> are responsible for feeding and caring for that animal. One of my
>> children,
>> (sighted) is 13, and has been the sole trainer of a dog since she was 9
>> years old. She has won many awards and competitions with her dog,
>> including
>> adult dog shows. She is responsible for feeding and caring for that dog.
>> When the dog gets her check ups at the vet, she comes to the vets office.
>> It's true, a young person can not take care of the expenses of a guide
>> dog,
>> but I am all for training teaching blind children to be independent as
>> early
>> as possible. I think each situation is different. I am not aware of
>> everything that goes into caring for and owning a guide dog, but I think
>> some children are capable and should not be excluded because of
>> age.
>>
>> Doreen
>>
>> --- On Wed, 1/20/10, Heather <craney07 at rochester.rr.com> wrote:
>>
>> From: Heather <craney07 at rochester.rr.com>
>> Subject: [blindkid] Guide dogs for twelve year olds?
>> To: "NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List, (for parents of blind children)"
>> <blindkid at nfbnet.org>
>> Date: Wednesday, January 20, 2010, 7:22 AM
>>
>> I just wanted to get some feedback on this from some parents of blind
>> children and teens. I, personally, was absolutely apalled to hear that a
>> local guide dog school, not mentioning names *coughs* Freedom guide Dogs
>> *Coughs* has preposed a program to place guide dogs with twelve year
>> olds.
>> All of the other schools in the US accept teens no younger than sixteen
>> or
>> eighteen years of age, depending on the school, but twelve? I am happy to
>> note that at present, no O and M instructors, parents or twelve year olds
>> have contacted the school to enquire about this program, but I am
>> dreading
>> the day. This makes a mockery of those exceptional blind teens who are,
>> at
>> sixteen or seventeen, responsible enough, committed enough and have
>> demanding enough schedules to properly care for, utalize and actually
>> need a
>> guide dog. At what age would you consider supporting your teen in
>> researching guide dog schools? At what age would you support them
>> actually
>> submitting applications? How old would you want your teen to be before
>> actually being placed with a guide dog? Do you think that you would have
>> the blunt honesty to deny your support of your child getting a dog guide,
>> if
>> they were not emotionally, mentally, etc capable of utalizing a guide
>> dog,
>> at that time in their life? Do you think that you could restrain yourself
>> from taking care of the dog, interacting with the dog, or doing things
>> that
>> would undermine the ownership of the dog by your blind teen,
>> acknowledging
>> their sole ownership and responsibility for the dog, even if you, as
>> their
>> mother or father still have all other rule-making power in the
>> house-hold?
>> Finally, would you ever, honestly let your twelve year old apply for a
>> guide
>> dog? I just felt this should be brought to the list's attention. Just me
>> personally, I would not encourage my blind teen to start researching
>> guide
>> dog schools until age fourteen or fifteen, and I would not
>> allow them to apply to schools until they were at least fifteen, and that
>> is assuming that they are emotionally ready to deal with the demands of a
>> guide dog, such as handeling an emergency vet situation, mentally able to
>> care for the dog, such as, researching and selecting safe toys, effective
>> medications and appropriate foods, mature enough to deal with the social
>> implications, such as access issues, and that they actually had a need,
>> not
>> just a want for a guide dog, due to a challenging travel area or complex
>> and
>> demanding schedule of activities and classes. Please share your thoughts.
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>>
>>
>>
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>
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