[blindkid] Guide dogs for twelve year olds?

Heather craney07 at rochester.rr.com
Thu Jan 21 04:22:18 UTC 2010


As I said in a previous email, a large percentage of blind individuals are 
either senior citizens, who lost their sight because of old age, or have 
severe multiple handicaps such as blindness and mental retardation, 
blindness and major mobility issues or blindness and other developmental and 
or neurological disorders.  I would be very interested to find out how many 
blind or low vision individuals there are, for whom blindness is their only 
disability, between the ages of sixteen and sixty living in the united 
states.  Ultimately, it is not up to you.  It is not up to me.  It is up to 
the people who know the dogs best, the trainers, as it should be, because 
this is about the dogs, not the kids.  If we were talking about canes, I 
would say that it is about the kids, because canes are objects, but dogs are 
living brething beings with rights and needs, even if those rights and needs 
are different from those of humans.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Albert J Rizzi" <albert at myblindspot.org>
To: "'NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List,(for parents of blind children)'" 
<blindkid at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2010 9:37 PM
Subject: Re: [blindkid] Guide dogs for twelve year olds?


> My research tells me that there are 15 million people with a visual
> impairment and of those percentages from usable vision to complete 
> blindness
> only 10,000 use guide dogs according to school figures  and add to that
> maybe 1000 or more owner trained, and then reported figures of only 
> 115,000
> cane users, probably not taking into account children and youth. The only
> reason guide dogs are 2nd to cane use is there is no other option for
> independent mobility, perhaps if we nurtured this option for our blind 
> youth
> there would be a shift in more then just choices in mobility but doors 
> will
> be opened for choices in education, employment, etc. freedom to move and
> freedom to choose are key for our youth. Let them get a guide, if they can
> meet the standards who are we to deny them the option simply because some
> think that their parents would be helping them with veterinary decisions 
> and
> the like. When I got my first car I turned to my dad to learn how to care
> for my car and he taught me. I did not wait until I was 21  to consider
> choosing that option for my mobility and then learn about cars over night. 
> A
> child is as responsible as the parents raised them to be and who are we to
> determine if that parent did a sufficient job or not? A responsibly raised
> child should have all the responsibility  and options they can handle.
> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
> CEO/Founder
> My Blind Spot, Inc.
> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
> New York, New York  10004
> www.myblindspot.org
> PH: 917-553-0347
> Fax: 212-858-5759
> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who is
> doing it."
>
>
> Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindkid-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindkid-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Heather
> Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2010 12:40 PM
> To: NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List,(for parents of blind children)
> Subject: Re: [blindkid] Guide dogs for twelve year olds?
>
> I have to disagree with one statement that you made, regarding Guide Dogs
> not being a primary means of mobility for most blind adults.  Not counting
> senior citizens who are blind because of their old age and complications
> there of, guide dogs are second only to canes in terms of numbers of 
> people
> using them for mobility, and they are no small fraction of the number of
> cane travelers.  I don't know the most recent statistic off the top of my
> head, but we are talking about a half or a third here, not one point
> something percent comparatively.  One must also take in to consideration
> blind individuals with mental retardation or severe multiple disabilities,
> as these persons would not, of course, be considered for guide dogs.  So,
> out of blind individuals who have average or above mental functioning, and
> who are not septagenerians, I would guess that guide dogs make up half, or
> even more than half of the choice mobility aids.  I will agree that many
> other factors must be taken into consideration, other than age, primarily
> living skills compitance, mibility aptitude and personality and temperment
> of the perspective handeler.  That is absolutely true, but I was asking
> purely about the age component.  Thanks for your thoughts.
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Richard Holloway" <rholloway at gopbc.org>
> To: "NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List,(for parents of blind children)"
> <blindkid at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2010 11:18 AM
> Subject: Re: [blindkid] Guide dogs for twelve year olds?
>
>
>> Carol,
>>
>> Having no direct knowledge of the process by which guide dog ownership
>> and placement is determined, I would assume that your main concerns 
>> would
>
>> (or should) all be addressed in the process of applying to get a  guide
>> dog for people of ANY age, is it not?
>>
>> It seems like guide dogs are not the primary choice of most blind  adults
>> and I would suspect they are appropriate for even a smaller  percentage 
>> of
>
>> young people, but I cannot see the harm in additional  study to determine
>> if this is a good and helpful option for some  (however few) kids under
>> 16.
>>
>> To be sure, your concerns are well received and I agree with them in
>> general, but again, I am very hesitant to decide something is a bad  idea
>> for everyone when (as far as I know) this has really never been  tried. I
>> guess what I'm driving at the most is I think this would be  best
>> determined by many factors apart from age, per se. One person  might be
>> ready at 12 or 15, Another, not until his or her mid-20's (if  ever).
>>
>> Richard
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Jan 20, 2010, at 10:53 AM, Carol Castellano wrote:
>>
>>> Well, I'll chime in with a different view.  My experience observing
>>> young guide dog users leads me to believe that even at 16 or 17, it  is
>>> the RARE young person who has the required all-around ability to  use a
>>> guide dog.  I have no statistics for this; my opinion is based  only on
>>> observations...over the past 20 years or so.
>>>
>>> Another concern I would have for allowing a 12-year-old to use a dog  is
>>> that in order to be a good traveler with a dog, the blind person  needs
>>> to be a good traveler in general.  A person would need a lot  of
>>> experience in all aspects of travel in order to be successful  with a
>>> dog.  For example, much information needs to be kept in mind  when
>>> traveling without the direct contact with landmarks, etc., that  cane
>>> travel provides.  How many 12-year-olds have such experience?   Have 
>>> they
>
>>> traveled much independently at that point?
>>>
>>> Last but not least, many people out there--some parents included-- 
>>> believe that a guide dog would protect their child and take him/her
>>> places safely.  They see dog use as a panacea for what they perceive  as
>>> the travel difficulties and safety issues facing their blind  child.
>>> This is no basis for getting a guide dog!
>>>
>>> So, all in all, my feeling would be against this idea.
>>>
>>> Carol
>>>
>>> Carol Castellano, President
>>> National Organization of Parents of Blind Children
>>> 973-377-0976
>>> carol_castellano at verizon.net
>>> www.nfb.org/nopbc
>>>
>>> At 10:09 AM 1/20/2010, you wrote:
>>>> Here here!  Wy set the bar low when in fact a child of 12 years or  13
>>>> years
>>>> has the capacity and maturity to handle the responsibility? Isn't  it
>>>> our
>>>> responsibility  to give all children those tools they need based  upon
>>>> their
>>>> individual abilities to achieve all things possible in their lives.  I
>>>> do not
>>>> see the reason for nor the reluctance  to allow any teenager an
>>>> opportunity
>>>> to exercise their choice for mobility and that it include a guide  dog.
>>>>
>>>> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
>>>> CEO/Founder
>>>> My Blind Spot, Inc.
>>>> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
>>>> New York, New York  10004
>>>> www.myblindspot.org
>>>> PH: 917-553-0347
>>>> Fax: 212-858-5759
>>>> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one 
>>>> who
>
>>>> is
>>>> doing it."
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: blindkid-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindkid- bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>> On
>>>> Behalf Of Doreen Frappier
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2010 9:40 AM
>>>> To: (for parents of blind children)NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List
>>>> Subject: Re: [blindkid] Guide dogs for twelve year olds?
>>>>
>>>> I am not opposed to having responsible 12 year olds own and care  for a
>>>> guide
>>>> dog.  I believe that children mature at different rates. For  example,
>>>> 4-H
>>>> children own and care for animals (on their own) at very young  ages.
>>>> They
>>>> are responsible for feeding and caring for that animal. One of my
>>>> children,
>>>> (sighted) is 13, and has been the sole trainer of a dog since she  was 
>>>> 9
>>>> years old.  She has won many awards and competitions with her dog,
>>>> including
>>>> adult dog shows. She is responsible for feeding and caring for that
>>>> dog.
>>>> When the dog gets her check ups at the vet, she comes to the vets
>>>> office.
>>>> It's true, a young person can not take care of the expenses of a  guide
>>>> dog,
>>>> but I am all for training teaching blind children to be independent  as
>>>> early
>>>> as possible. I think each situation is different.  I am not aware of
>>>> everything that goes into caring for and owning a guide dog, but I
>>>> think
>>>> some children are capable and should not be excluded because of
>>>> age.
>>>>
>>>> Doreen
>>>>
>>>> --- On Wed, 1/20/10, Heather <craney07 at rochester.rr.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> From: Heather <craney07 at rochester.rr.com>
>>>> Subject: [blindkid] Guide dogs for twelve year olds?
>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List, (for parents of blind children)"
>>>> <blindkid at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Date: Wednesday, January 20, 2010, 7:22 AM
>>>>
>>>> I just wanted to get some feedback on this from some parents of blind
>>>> children and teens.  I, personally, was absolutely apalled to hear 
>>>> that
>
>>>> a
>>>> local guide dog school, not mentioning names *coughs* Freedom guide
>>>> Dogs
>>>> *Coughs* has preposed a program to place guide dogs with twelve  year
>>>> olds.
>>>> All of the other schools in the US accept teens no younger than 
>>>> sixteen
>
>>>> or
>>>> eighteen years of age, depending on the school, but twelve?  I am 
>>>> happy
>
>>>> to
>>>> note that at present, no O and M instructors, parents or twelve  year
>>>> olds
>>>> have contacted the school to enquire about this program, but I am
>>>> dreading
>>>> the day.  This makes a mockery of those exceptional blind teens who
>>>> are, at
>>>> sixteen or seventeen, responsible enough, committed enough and have
>>>> demanding enough schedules to properly care for, utalize and  actually
>>>> need a
>>>> guide dog.  At what age would you consider supporting your teen in
>>>> researching guide dog schools?  At what age would you support them
>>>> actually
>>>> submitting applications?  How old would you want your teen to be 
>>>> before
>>>> actually being placed with a guide dog?  Do you think that you  would
>>>> have
>>>> the blunt honesty to deny your support of your child getting a dog
>>>> guide, if
>>>> they were not emotionally, mentally, etc capable of utalizing a  guide
>>>> dog,
>>>> at that time in their life?  Do you think that you could restrain
>>>> yourself
>>>> from taking care of the dog, interacting with the dog, or doing  things
>>>> that
>>>> would undermine the ownership of the dog by your blind teen,
>>>> acknowledging
>>>> their sole ownership and responsibility for the dog, even if you,  as
>>>> their
>>>> mother or father still have all other rule-making power in the
>>>> house-hold?
>>>> Finally, would you ever, honestly let your twelve year old apply  for a
>>>> guide
>>>> dog?  I just felt this should be brought to the list's attention. 
>>>> Just
>
>>>> me
>>>> personally, I would not encourage my blind teen to start  researching
>>>> guide
>>>> dog schools until age fourteen or fifteen, and I would not
>>>> allow them to apply to schools until they were at least fifteen,  and
>>>> that
>>>> is assuming that they are emotionally ready to deal with the  demands 
>>>> of
>
>>>> a
>>>> guide dog, such as handeling an emergency vet situation, mentally  able
>>>> to
>>>> care for the dog, such as, researching and selecting safe toys,
>>>> effective
>>>> medications and appropriate foods, mature enough to deal with the
>>>> social
>>>> implications, such as access issues, and that they actually had a 
>>>> need,
>
>>>> not
>>>> just a want for a guide dog, due to a challenging travel area or
>>>> complex and
>>>> demanding schedule of activities and classes.  Please share your
>>>> thoughts.
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
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