[blindkid] Guide dogs for twelve year olds?

Albert J Rizzi albert at myblindspot.org
Thu Jan 21 13:39:30 UTC 2010 

Well it is apparent you know and knew your limitations and used them in
determining your choices in life. that is all we are talking about here.
Another individual regardless of age understanding their limitations and
their obvious abilities and coupling them together for one remarkable option
in life to advance on any and all levels. 

Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
CEO/Founder
My Blind Spot, Inc.
90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
New York, New York  10004
www.myblindspot.org
PH: 917-553-0347
Fax: 212-858-5759
"The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who is
doing it."


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-----Original Message-----
From: blindkid-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindkid-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Heather
Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2010 10:23 PM
To: NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List,(for parents of blind children)
Subject: Re: [blindkid] Guide dogs for twelve year olds?

I hope that no reputable school would grant priority to someone who puppy 
raised for them.  That is just not a good scene.  I would have to disagree, 
as I am the blind daughter of a blind mother, and the blind mother of a 
blind son.  My mother and I are both successful guide dog users.  I got my 
first dog at sixteen, and as smart, mature and capable a twelve year old as 
I was, I admit that I would not have been at all ready for a guide dog at 
twelve.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Peter Donahue" <pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net>
To: "NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List,(for parents of blind children)" 
<blindkid at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2010 2:53 PM
Subject: Re: [blindkid] Guide dogs for twelve year olds?


> Hello Heather and listers,
>
>    What if the blind parents themselves are guide dog users? In this
> situation it seems that some role modeling would occur and the blind child
> wanting a guide dog would have a deeper understanding of what is required 
> of
> a blind person to benefit from the use of such dogs having observed their
> blind parents. In the past there has been too much generalizing and no
> emphasis on determining a blind child's ability to use a guide dog on an
> individual basis. There are a few instances where blind children have 
> raised
> guide dog puppies for several guide dog programs. In my mind these would
> receive priority in consideration for a guide dog as they would have all
> ready learned the basics and developed a clearer understanding of what is
> required of a guide dog handler of any age.
>
> Peter Donahue
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Heather" <craney07 at rochester.rr.com>
> To: "NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List,(for parents of blind children)"
> <blindkid at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2010 12:30 PM
> Subject: Re: [blindkid] Guide dogs for twelve year olds?
>
>
> That's a nice sentament, Really, it is.  but that is the point, they can't
> handel the responsibilities.  Even if they accademically understand the
> ramifications, they, not their parents, they, personally, cannot take the
> dog to the vet by them self, they can not afford the dog's food, vet care,
> medications, training equipment, etc, by them self.  The dog would have to
> be owned exclusively by and handeled exclusively by the blind pre-teen, 
> not
> by the parent, and that simply would not happen in ninety five percent of
> homes.  If the child forgot to feed the dog, the parents would just yell 
> at
> their kid and then do it for them.  They wouldn't let the dog go hungry, 
> and
> they certainly wouldn't call the school and be honest and admit that their
> child was not always remembering to feed the dog and reccomend that it be
> taken away.  If the dog was sick, the parent would take the dog to the vet
> and would never let the child miss school to go with the dog to the vet, 
> and
> that is what has to happen.  A twelve year old does not have the savvey or
> the clout to realize that vets, doctors, professionals, I.E. professional
> adults don't always know everything.  A twelve year old would never have 
> the
> confidence or the social position to argue with a vet who wants to give a
> vaccine, when a tyder would sufice.  .  If someone is still young enough 
> to
> be told to go to their room, then they are not old enough to handel a dog.
> What if the child is grounded for doing something they should not?  That 
> dog
> still needs to be walked and more importantly, worked, and the parents
> cannot walk, let alone work the dog for their child.  The whole thing that
> makes guide dogs great for independence is for people who take the city 
> bus
> every day, the subway, walk several blocks, make dangerous street 
> crossings,
> traverse complex routes.  Twelve year olds, unless they live in downtown
> Manhattan do not have those needs for a dog.  For instance, 
> twelve-year-olds
> take school busses, which pick up within a block of their house, and this 
> is
> simply not enough work for a guide dog, walking one block twice a day.
> Walking around one school building all day, as in middle school or junior
> high is not acceptable either.  Now, a college student on a large campus 
> is
> a whole different thing.  Even some blind adults do not have challenging
> enough travel needs to warrent getting a guide dog.  I am all for 
> fostering
> independence in young people with disabilities, but not at the expense of
> the dogs, or the rest of the guide dog using community.  All it will take 
> is
> a few twelve and thirteen year olds that can't handel their dogs in 
> public,
> who might jump up on someone, get into it with another dog on the street,
> nip at a person's pant leg, for the reputation of successful guide dog 
> teams
> to be affected by association.  Any guide dog could jump on someone, bite
> someone, grab food off of a restaurant table, knock over a display of 
> china
> in a store.  They are dogs after all.  What keeps this from happening is
> good socialization, good training and good maintainence of that training,
> which requires a great deal of consistancy, aptitude and maturity.  Think
> about an access issue.  It is difficult for some blind adults to deal with

> a
> cabbie or a restaurant owner who doesn't want their dog in their cab or
> their place of business.  How is a twelve year old going to cope with 
> this?
> What adult, who is causing the access issue is going to take a tween
> seriously?  Pre-teens can still be independent, but independent at the 
> level
> of their sighted, pre-teen counter-parts, not independent on the level of
> blind and sighted adults.  Would you give a car to a twelve year old?  A 
> car
> can be dangerous, a car requires maturity and responsibility, a car is a
> privilage, not a right, just as is a guide dog.  Just some food for 
> thought.
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Albert J Rizzi" <albert at myblindspot.org>
> To: "'NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List,(for parents of blind children)'"
> <blindkid at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2010 10:09 AM
> Subject: Re: [blindkid] Guide dogs for twelve year olds?
>
>
> Here here!  Wy set the bar low when in fact a child of 12 years or 13 
> years
> has the capacity and maturity to handle the responsibility? Isn't it our
> responsibility  to give all children those tools they need based upon 
> their
> individual abilities to achieve all things possible in their lives. I do 
> not
> see the reason for nor the reluctance  to allow any teenager an 
> opportunity
> to exercise their choice for mobility and that it include a guide dog.
>
> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
> CEO/Founder
> My Blind Spot, Inc.
> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
> New York, New York  10004
> www.myblindspot.org
> PH: 917-553-0347
> Fax: 212-858-5759
> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who is
> doing it."
>
>
> Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindkid-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindkid-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Doreen Frappier
> Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2010 9:40 AM
> To: (for parents of blind children)NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [blindkid] Guide dogs for twelve year olds?
>
> I am not opposed to having responsible 12 year olds own and care for a 
> guide
> dog. I believe that children mature at different rates. For example, 4-H
> children own and care for animals (on their own) at very young ages. They
> are responsible for feeding and caring for that animal. One of my 
> children,
> (sighted) is 13, and has been the sole trainer of a dog since she was 9
> years old. She has won many awards and competitions with her dog, 
> including
> adult dog shows. She is responsible for feeding and caring for that dog.
> When the dog gets her check ups at the vet, she comes to the vets office.
> It's true, a young person can not take care of the expenses of a guide 
> dog,
> but I am all for training teaching blind children to be independent as 
> early
> as possible. I think each situation is different. I am not aware of
> everything that goes into caring for and owning a guide dog, but I think
> some children are capable and should not be excluded because of
> age.
>
> Doreen
>
> --- On Wed, 1/20/10, Heather <craney07 at rochester.rr.com> wrote:
>
> From: Heather <craney07 at rochester.rr.com>
> Subject: [blindkid] Guide dogs for twelve year olds?
> To: "NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List, (for parents of blind children)"
> <blindkid at nfbnet.org>
> Date: Wednesday, January 20, 2010, 7:22 AM
>
> I just wanted to get some feedback on this from some parents of blind
> children and teens. I, personally, was absolutely apalled to hear that a
> local guide dog school, not mentioning names *coughs* Freedom guide Dogs
> *Coughs* has preposed a program to place guide dogs with twelve year olds.
> All of the other schools in the US accept teens no younger than sixteen or
> eighteen years of age, depending on the school, but twelve? I am happy to
> note that at present, no O and M instructors, parents or twelve year olds
> have contacted the school to enquire about this program, but I am dreading
> the day. This makes a mockery of those exceptional blind teens who are, at
> sixteen or seventeen, responsible enough, committed enough and have
> demanding enough schedules to properly care for, utalize and actually need

> a
> guide dog. At what age would you consider supporting your teen in
> researching guide dog schools? At what age would you support them actually
> submitting applications? How old would you want your teen to be before
> actually being placed with a guide dog? Do you think that you would have
> the blunt honesty to deny your support of your child getting a dog guide, 
> if
> they were not emotionally, mentally, etc capable of utalizing a guide dog,
> at that time in their life? Do you think that you could restrain yourself
> from taking care of the dog, interacting with the dog, or doing things 
> that
> would undermine the ownership of the dog by your blind teen, acknowledging
> their sole ownership and responsibility for the dog, even if you, as their
> mother or father still have all other rule-making power in the house-hold?
> Finally, would you ever, honestly let your twelve year old apply for a 
> guide
> dog? I just felt this should be brought to the list's attention. Just me
> personally, I would not encourage my blind teen to start researching guide
> dog schools until age fourteen or fifteen, and I would not
> allow them to apply to schools until they were at least fifteen, and that
> is assuming that they are emotionally ready to deal with the demands of a
> guide dog, such as handeling an emergency vet situation, mentally able to
> care for the dog, such as, researching and selecting safe toys, effective
> medications and appropriate foods, mature enough to deal with the social
> implications, such as access issues, and that they actually had a need, 
> not
> just a want for a guide dog, due to a challenging travel area or complex 
> and
> demanding schedule of activities and classes. Please share your thoughts.
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