[blindkid] Guide dogs for twelve year olds?

Mike Freeman k7uij at panix.com
Fri Jan 22 03:02:36 UTC 2010


Heather:

I must beg to differ with you slightly. In theory, you are correct: the 
schools expect a good working knowledge of O&M including use of the long 
cane before they will consider an applicant for guide dog use. However, 
all-too-often, I have seen this honored more in theory than in the breech.

Mike

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Heather" <craney07 at rochester.rr.com>
To: "NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List,(for parents of blind children)" 
<blindkid at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2010 6:46 PM
Subject: Re: [blindkid] Guide dogs for twelve year olds?


> You are right, about the mobility skills portion, but the perceaved 
> maturity level is important.  I would not let the most mature twelve year 
> old in the world care for my dog long term or my child for an afternoon. 
> It is a risk that I am not willing to take and that most schools, and I 
> agree with them, are not willing to take.  I did not realize that you are 
> a guide dog user. You do realize, of course, that you are an exception to 
> the rule, as most schools would not take someone who has only used a cane 
> for six months into their program.  You must be an unusually hard-working 
> individual, who had a very good O and M instructor, and i commend you on 
> that, but I think you are letting your personal achievements color your 
> view of the issue.  It is good to here some guide dog users chiming in, it 
> really is.  I love these debates, when people really invest themselves in 
> them.  I am just curious, which school is your dog from?
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Albert J Rizzi" <albert at myblindspot.org>
> To: "'NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List,(for parents of blind children)'" 
> <blindkid at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2010 6:30 PM
> Subject: Re: [blindkid] Guide dogs for twelve year olds?
>
>
>>A child using a guide dog would most certainly  need to be held to the 
>>same
>> standards as others looking to use a guide dog. Cane skills are key. So 
>> if a
>> child has proper cane technique and is a strong independent traveler why
>> preclude them from that option. I was a cane traveler who had to touch
>> everything as I walked by. With a guide I do not hit things so I do not 
>> care
>> to touch them any more and get to and from more quickly.  An achiever of
>> skills sometimes is a young person who has parents who support their
>> independence and choice of mobility if all criteria are met should not be
>> withheld simply because of a perceived level of immaturity instead of
>> embracing  the Childs unique ability to rise above his peers and be a 
>> leader
>> rather then accept being lumped into what others perceive his abilities
>> should be based upon a number rather then his own or her own ability. If 
>> I
>> were to agree with your thinking I would not be a guide dog user at 
>> present
>> because I only used a cane for 6 months before I transition into a guide. 
>> I
>> am 4 tears into m blind life,, I would think a twelve year old blind 
>> since
>> birth has worlds of experience over me and should be permitted this 
>> option.
>>
>> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
>> CEO/Founder
>> My Blind Spot, Inc.
>> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
>> New York, New York  10004
>> www.myblindspot.org
>> PH: 917-553-0347
>> Fax: 212-858-5759
>> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who 
>> is
>> doing it."
>>
>>
>> Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: blindkid-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindkid-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf Of Carol Castellano
>> Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2010 10:54 AM
>> To: NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List,(for parents of blind children)
>> Subject: Re: [blindkid] Guide dogs for twelve year olds?
>>
>> Well, I'll chime in with a different view.  My experience observing
>> young guide dog users leads me to believe that even at 16 or 17, it
>> is the RARE young person who has the required all-around ability to
>> use a guide dog.  I have no statistics for this; my opinion is based
>> only on observations...over the past 20 years or so.
>>
>> Another concern I would have for allowing a 12-year-old to use a dog
>> is that in order to be a good traveler with a dog, the blind person
>> needs to be a good traveler in general.  A person would need a lot of
>> experience in all aspects of travel in order to be successful with a
>> dog.  For example, much information needs to be kept in mind when
>> traveling without the direct contact with landmarks, etc., that cane
>> travel provides.  How many 12-year-olds have such experience?  Have
>> they traveled much independently at that point?
>>
>> Last but not least, many people out there--some parents
>> included--believe that a guide dog would protect their child and take
>> him/her places safely.  They see dog use as a panacea for what they
>> perceive as the travel difficulties and safety issues facing their
>> blind child.  This is no basis for getting a guide dog!
>>
>> So, all in all, my feeling would be against this idea.
>>
>> Carol
>>
>> Carol Castellano, President
>> National Organization of Parents of Blind Children
>> 973-377-0976
>> carol_castellano at verizon.net
>> www.nfb.org/nopbc
>>
>> At 10:09 AM 1/20/2010, you wrote:
>>>Here here!  Wy set the bar low when in fact a child of 12 years or 13 
>>>years
>>>has the capacity and maturity to handle the responsibility? Isn't it our
>>>responsibility  to give all children those tools they need based upon 
>>>their
>>>individual abilities to achieve all things possible in their lives. I do
>> not
>>>see the reason for nor the reluctance  to allow any teenager an 
>>>opportunity
>>>to exercise their choice for mobility and that it include a guide dog.
>>>
>>>Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
>>>CEO/Founder
>>>My Blind Spot, Inc.
>>>90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
>>>New York, New York  10004
>>>www.myblindspot.org
>>>PH: 917-553-0347
>>>Fax: 212-858-5759
>>>"The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who 
>>>is
>>>doing it."
>>>
>>>
>>>Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: blindkid-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindkid-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>Behalf Of Doreen Frappier
>>>Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2010 9:40 AM
>>>To: (for parents of blind children)NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List
>>>Subject: Re: [blindkid] Guide dogs for twelve year olds?
>>>
>>>I am not opposed to having responsible 12 year olds own and care for a
>> guide
>>>dog.  I believe that children mature at different rates. For example, 4-H
>>>children own and care for animals (on their own) at very young ages. 
>>>They
>>>are responsible for feeding and caring for that animal. One of my 
>>>children,
>>>(sighted) is 13, and has been the sole trainer of a dog since she was 9
>>>years old.  She has won many awards and competitions with her dog,
>> including
>>>adult dog shows. She is responsible for feeding and caring for that dog.
>>>When the dog gets her check ups at the vet, she comes to the vets office.
>>>It's true, a young person can not take care of the expenses of a guide 
>>>dog,
>>>but I am all for training teaching blind children to be independent as
>> early
>>>as possible. I think each situation is different.  I am not aware of
>>>everything that goes into caring for and owning a guide dog, but I think
>>>some children are capable and should not be excluded because of
>>>  age.
>>>
>>>Doreen
>>>
>>>--- On Wed, 1/20/10, Heather <craney07 at rochester.rr.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>From: Heather <craney07 at rochester.rr.com>
>>>Subject: [blindkid] Guide dogs for twelve year olds?
>>>To: "NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List, (for parents of blind children)"
>>><blindkid at nfbnet.org>
>>>Date: Wednesday, January 20, 2010, 7:22 AM
>>>
>>>I just wanted to get some feedback on this from some parents of blind
>>>children and teens.  I, personally, was absolutely apalled to hear that a
>>>local guide dog school, not mentioning names *coughs* Freedom guide Dogs
>>>*Coughs* has preposed a program to place guide dogs with twelve year 
>>>olds.
>>>All of the other schools in the US accept teens no younger than sixteen 
>>>or
>>>eighteen years of age, depending on the school, but twelve?  I am happy 
>>>to
>>>note that at present, no O and M instructors, parents or twelve year olds
>>>have contacted the school to enquire about this program, but I am 
>>>dreading
>>>the day.  This makes a mockery of those exceptional blind teens who are, 
>>>at
>>>sixteen or seventeen, responsible enough, committed enough and have
>>>demanding enough schedules to properly care for, utalize and actually 
>>>need
>> a
>>>guide dog.  At what age would you consider supporting your teen in
>>>researching guide dog schools?  At what age would you support them 
>>>actually
>>>  submitting applications?  How old would you want your teen to be before
>>>actually being placed with a guide dog?  Do you think that you would have
>>>the blunt honesty to deny your support of your child getting a dog guide,
>> if
>>>they were not emotionally, mentally, etc capable of utalizing a guide 
>>>dog,
>>>at that time in their life?  Do you think that you could restrain 
>>>yourself
>>>from taking care of the dog, interacting with the dog, or doing things 
>>>that
>>>would undermine the ownership of the dog by your blind teen, 
>>>acknowledging
>>>their sole ownership and responsibility for the dog, even if you, as 
>>>their
>>>mother or father still have all other rule-making power in the 
>>>house-hold?
>>>Finally, would you ever, honestly let your twelve year old apply for a
>> guide
>>>dog?  I just felt this should be brought to the list's attention.  Just 
>>>me
>>>personally, I would not encourage my blind teen to start researching 
>>>guide
>>>dog schools until age fourteen or fifteen, and I would not
>>>  allow them to apply to schools until they were at least fifteen, and 
>>> that
>>>is assuming that they are emotionally ready to deal with the demands of a
>>>guide dog, such as handeling an emergency vet situation, mentally able to
>>>care for the dog, such as, researching and selecting safe toys, effective
>>>medications and appropriate foods, mature enough to deal with the social
>>>implications, such as access issues, and that they actually had a need, 
>>>not
>>>just a want for a guide dog, due to a challenging travel area or complex
>> and
>>>demanding schedule of activities and classes.  Please share your 
>>>thoughts.
>>>_______________________________________________
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>>>.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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