[blindkid] Please unsubscribe me

Carrie Gilmer carrie.gilmer at gmail.com
Fri Jul 2 12:55:51 UTC 2010


Dear Heather,
I was employed at one of the NFB centers for five years, in addition I
volunteered there for various activities or was around at times with some
frequency for another five (at which times I was still able to observe the
training and the student's progress/reactions). You misunderstand the
training philosophy. Caning, or Braille or technology or any other aspect
including "shop" is never thought of as "supplemental" or taught in
abbreviation. It is a wholistic approach, totally. And the purpose in that
is not only clear to those who experience it but in its outcomes of over
85-90% success rates, light years ahead of any other training centers in the
world. It would take some time and open mindedness to understand the true
whole benefits of the wholistic approach~but it might be valuable to think
that one does not live life in segments or abbreviations...

Many students come with some common-ness only wanting pieces of any part of
the curriculum. IF it was changed for each student who wanted less sleep
shades, less Braille, less technology or geared differently to what THEY
perceive as weakness or strength or valuable or "choice" in methodology of
skill we would have no standard practice and would be all over the place. It
is less like "family" and more like college degree programs who understand a
certain mix and load of courses BEST prepares for life and a certain career
route. Because people are different, ONE reason the wholistic and structured
discovery method works is because it is transferable to new places and times
in life. Students are prepared to learn and grow on their own~for life.

In my years at the center I never observed a dog or owner harmed by the
"policy" or rather, practice. You speak as if it is near abuse of the dog.
My daughter owns a rottweiller and a German Shepherd. They are kenneled all
day while she is at work. I own a schnauzer, same thing. This is a very
common practice, the dogs are not harmed. At the center dogs get out more
frequently, with morning, lunch and afternoon breaks. People are allowed to
take their dogs out after 4:30 or the end of the class day, but are also
encouraged to use their canes simultaneously. 100% of those who stuck with
the program in my observation became not only better travelers, but better
guide dog owners as a whole.

I am also quite sure the guide dog schools are relieved that our centers do
not teach it in their curriculum, as they are struggling enough to stay in
business without that competition. Our centers have gone up against a deeply
entrenched establishment and in order to survive, grow and thrive and become
established they had to focus on what they do best.

Sincerely,

Carrie Gilmer

-----Original Message-----
From: blindkid-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindkid-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Heather
Sent: Friday, July 02, 2010 7:14 AM
To: NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List,(for parents of blind children)
Subject: Re: [blindkid] Please unsubscribe me

Yes, I have strong feelings about how I run my family, but I would not 
require people coming into my house to do something detremental to their own

family.  It's the underlying phylosophy that is expressed by the polocy, not

just the polocy.  NFB provides some training that is of a much higher 
quality then other centers around, so if the person with the guide dog wants

that, they must sacrafice a good working team?  That is so wrong on many 
levels.  If the focus is that much on canes, then the center should put the 
best interest of the dog handler team and the dog first, telling the student

"We have a very cane heavy ciriculum, that would not be served by your 
bringing your dog, and while we realize how important it is for you to use 
your guide, we suggest that you contact one of these O and M instructors 
trained by NFB who can provide supplemental cane skills training to you, in 
an abreviated setting, so that you may improve and uphold your cane skills 
while not jepordizing your relationship with your dog."  and or, they should

offer a blindness skills session just for guide dog users that has all of 
the other skills featured, which one can certainly learn while the dog is 
present, and then the dogs could remain in crate or on tie down for maybe an

hour or two a day for some cane skills training.  But several months of this

is just unacceptable.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "H. Field" <missheather at comcast.net>
To: "NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List,(for parents of blind children)" 
<blindkid at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2010 11:27 PM
Subject: Re: [blindkid] Please unsubscribe me


> Hi Heather,
> The NFB has set up it's training centers to be a certain kind of
> center. In the same way you have set up your family to be a certain
> kind of family. You have carefully considered your values and your
> approach to parenting your children. If people meet you and make
> friends with you and then decide that they don't like your values or
> parenting methods, you, as would I, simply tell them that they are
> welcome to make other friends with whom they have more in common.
>
> The analogy is useful for considering your apparent thoughts on NFB
> center policies. Nobody is forcing anybody to go to the NFB centers.
> Furthermore, there are numerous choices that blind people can choose.
> For some reason, folks want to fight and argue about how the NFB has
> chosen to establish and implement their training center curriculum.
> You are welcome to disagree but why would you, so passionately
> committed to your view on such matters as education, parenting etc.
> appear to be so unwilling to admit the the NFB has every right to
> choose the philosophy and methods which it uses in it's training?
>
> Nobody is forced to attend an NFB center. Also, it is sadly just not
> true that all guide dogs schools insist on great cane skills with all
> of their students. Some do, but not all.
>
> It is ironic to me that you appear to have difficulty accepting why
> some folks on the list might take acception to your strong opinions
> when you express them and yet, you are so quick to react negatively to
> the NFB centers staff expressing their opinions regarding best
> practice and exercising their right to run whatever kind of private
> enterprise they wish. Though it may not be the choice that you,
> personally would make for,  your, own blindness skills education
> experience, it is undeniable
> that NFB centers are indeed serving a certain portion of the
> population of blind people because people keep going there and at
> least one centter has been in operation for over twenty years. If the
> curriculum and attendance criteria are so onerous, these centers would
> simply fail for lack of attendees. However, it appears, for a
> significant group of blind people, the NFB centers provide a blindness
> skills training experience that they do want, irrespective of the
> rules and stipulations. Why would you want to deny them their right to
> choose and a viable choice of training center?
>
> I don't think the reasons you've shared, brief as they have been,
> should send you off our list.
>
> Very warmest regards,
>
> Heather Field
>
>
>
> --- 
> From: "Heather" <craney07 at rochester.rr.com>
> To: "NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List,(for parents of blind children)"
> <blindkid at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2010 8:58 PM
> Subject: Re: [blindkid] Please unsubscribe me
>
>
> Lots of people go to the centers to learn other things, like
> technology
> training, braille, many compitant blind people are great with
> computers but
> can't read braille well or at all, or can live on their own, but with
> a
> lower quality of life because of not having such skills as cooking
> with a
> stove vs a microwave, or purchasing clothing that requires any but the
> simplest machine washing, because they can't set washers and dryers or
> iron,
> etc.  No guide dog school would accept someoone for training if their
> cane
> skills were not already very good, so while the institute might
> reasonably
> ask them for a few lessons on some new technique or with a demo of a
> new
> type of cane, to leave their dog in it's crate, not using it at all
> however
> during the training would more or less distroy the dog handler
> relationship
> and potentially the dog, period.  Hope that helps explain better.
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Kim Cunningham" <kim at gulfimagesphoto.com>
> To: " (for parents of blind children)NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List"
> <blindkid at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2010 3:58 PM
> Subject: Re: [blindkid] Please unsubscribe me
>
>
> Heather,
> I have a child who is attending one of the NFB training centers. One
> of the
> many reasons I wanted my daughter to attend the training center was to
> receive intensive O&M. I want her to feel free to travel anywhere,
> anytime
> she wants. Why would anyone want to take their guide dog to a facility
> where
> you would be learning cane travel? From what I understand, you can
> only get
> a guide dog AFTER you show competent cane travel skills. So, if
> someone
> wishes to attend a program at one of the centers, shouldn't you
> embrace all
> the training while there?
> Just my thoughts on the subject. Have a nice summer.
> Kim
>
>
> --- On Thu, 7/1/10, Heather <craney07 at rochester.rr.com> wrote:
>
>
> From: Heather <craney07 at rochester.rr.com>
> Subject: [blindkid] Please unsubscribe me
> To: "NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List, (for parents of blind children)"
> <blindkid at nfbnet.org>
> Date: Thursday, July 1, 2010, 8:55 AM
>
>
> I always seem to be rubbing someone's fur the wrong way on this list,
> and
> that coupled with some disturbing information I have just come across
> has
> caused me to wish to unsubscribe from this and one other NFB list that
> I was
> on. That one had a link to unsubscribe, but this one directs me to a
> web
> page and I am at school right now, about to go out of town, and need
> to
> catch a bus, so no time to go poking around on the internet, when the
> server
> at school is running very sluggishly due to online administration of
> finals
> for summer courses today. Long story very short, I was under the
> impression
> that NFB's antiguidedog sentaments had disipated, but I have just
> spoken
> with two individuals who were being told at an NFB training center
> that
> their dogs had to stay in their rooms and that they were not to use
> them. I
> saw this come up in NAGDU and GDUI lists many many years ago, and
> assumed
> that something so backwards thinking and detremental to guide dog
> teams would have been resolved. You know what they say about
> assumptions.
> Bottom line, I do not feel that I am being an honest and responsible
> advocate of guide dogs if I continue to interact with an organization
> that
> premotes such detremental ideas. There are some awsum people on this
> list,
> and everyone, even the people I don't particularly like, all have
> awsum
> kids, it's about the list affiliation, and nothing more. If anyone
> ever
> wishes to write me off list in the future, my email address is
> craney07 at rochester.rr.com. Have a nice summer all.
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