[blindkid] Need Tech help

Sally Thomas seacknit at gmail.com
Mon Jul 12 15:43:07 UTC 2010 

My son prefers the Mac interface because it is easier to use and less prone 
to jamming up.  While JAWS can access some Flash content, the information it 
gives you is not always useful.   I'm told that on many sites it reads links 
as "button," providing no useful information about the content.  Also, in 
our schools, the Cartoon Network is blocked by the district network so it is 
inaccessible to all students.  The usefulness of different computer types 
depends on the child's needs.

A good thing about a Mac is that it is easy to set up a virtual machine on 
it and run Windows as well as the Mac software.  Many people who like 
Microsoft Office and the Apple hardware do this.  Apple is working hard on 
accessibility.  The iPhone is the most fully accessible phone available 
right now and the Apple website lists all the braille devices with which it 
is compatible.  My son was able to connect his BrailleNote to a Mac at the 
Apple store in about 5 minutes without any assistance.  He's 13.

While I think it is great that there are people working on accessible 
technology for kids, it is too simple to say that there is one perfect 
solution right now.  We've struggled with JAWS and a PC for several years. 
A blind person cannot get the full internet experience with that technology 
right now because not all Flash content is accessible with JAWS.

Sally Thomas


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Thea Eaton" <thea at doodledoo.com>
To: "'NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List,(for parents of blind children)'" 
<blindkid at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, July 12, 2010 10:00 AM
Subject: Re: [blindkid] Need Tech help


>
> With the Mac, you will not get a full internet experience, however. The
> voice over screen reader is very limited. A 9 year old child, will want to
> access educational content and games online that will be Flash. We are
> working with Cartoon Network right now, for example, in making a fully
> accessible children's site for kids about nutrition. If they would access
> this in the classroom, then Mac users would not be able to access this
> content, or play the accessible Flash games that come with it. I would
> therefore strongly recommend against Macs for children at this time, until
> they become more accessible.
>
> Thea Eaton
> DoodleDoo
> Where early birds learn.
> www.doodledoo.com
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindkid-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindkid-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Brandy W
> Sent: Monday, July 12, 2010 9:36 AM
> To: NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List,(for parents of blind children)
> Subject: Re: [blindkid] Need Tech help
>
> Mac is also a great option for 2 reasons. It comes with voice over which
> many many blind people are using and for a child they wouldn't have the
> prior knowledge of a windows computer. Mac is also supporting Braille
> desplays. So Yes Mac is an option. Each has their Pros and cons.
>
> Bran
>
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> Discovery Toys Educational Leader
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>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Thea Eaton" <thea at doodledoo.com>
> To: "'NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List,(for parents of blind children)'"
> <blindkid at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Monday, July 12, 2010 9:04 AM
> Subject: Re: [blindkid] Need Tech help
>
>
>>
>> For a 9 year old computer user, we would recommend a PC with a screen
>> reader
>> that is MSAA compatible, such as JAWS or Window Eyes. These screen 
>> readers
>> can access Flash content, wich will allow your daughter to access
>> accessible
>> Flash games and children's content on the web, and also any Flash modules
>> that they use at school.
>>
>> We build accessible Flash applications for educational publishers such as
>> Harcourt School and Pearson, who are increasingly putting their book
>> content
>> out there online. Most of their ebOok and enrichment content is Flash
>> content, so I would make sure that you choose a screen reader that is
>> Flash
>> compatible. Most these screen readers do not work on a Mac, I'm afraid, 
>> so
>
>> I
>> would not get a Mac.
>>
>> Thea Eaton
>> DoodleDoo
>> Where early birds learn.
>> www.doodledoo.com
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: blindkid-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindkid-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf Of Sally Thomas
>> Sent: Monday, July 12, 2010 6:42 AM
>> To: NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List,(for parents of blind children)
>> Subject: Re: [blindkid] Need Tech help
>>
>> There are several different screen readers.  Besides JAWS there are 
>> Window
>> Eyes, NVDA, and System Access. I believe they all have free demos.
>> Serotek
>> offers a free version of their software to kids K-12
>> (http://serotek.com/kk-main ).  We've found the biggest issue to be
>> dealing
>> with what the school will allow on their computers and what the teacher 
>> of
>> blind students will support.  For several years the only software
>> supported
>> was JAWS.  Now we are leaning towards a Mac for a laptop with its built 
>> in
>> VoiceOver screen reader and using a BrailleNote as a braille display and
>> note taker.  Unfortunately there is not one definitive answer.  We've 
>> been
>> very happy with the tech support we've received from Humanware with the
>> BrailleNote.  Freedom Scientific has become more helpful in the past year
>> with questions about JAWS.
>>
>> The most cost effective solution is free screen reader software on a
>> laptop
>> but for a braille reader, getting braille under your fingers is very
>> important at age 9.  I think that some sort of refreshable braille is
>> great.
>>
>> The new notetakers are so light and can do so much.  You might want to
>> call
>> the different note taker companies and see if they will have a sales rep
>> come to the school to demonstrate the technology.  It is a big purchase 
>> so
>> you should be able to take a look at it before you buy.
>>
>> Sally Thomas
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Richard Holloway" <rholloway at gopbc.org>
>> To: <jjordan_pa at yahoo.com>; "NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List,(for parents 
>> of
>> blind children)" <blindkid at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Sunday, July 11, 2010 8:01 PM
>> Subject: Re: [blindkid] Need Tech help
>>
>>
>>> We have been through similar frustrations. I expect we all have to  sort
>>> through this business at one time or another. Not to state the  obvious,
>>> but it depends on what her peers are doing exactly. There are 
>>> definitely
>>> a lot of questions to ask before you get out your checkbook  and you 
>>> also
>>> need to have some idea of your budget limit because this  can get costly
>>> very quickly. (Yet it may also be fairly cheap to start!)
>>>
>>> Here are a few questions that come to mind for starters--
>>>
>>> Mac or PC?
>>> Blind or Low Vision (or both)? (This drives discussions about screen
>>> readers and refreshable braille and so forth).
>>> Assuming she's a braille reader are you trying to come up with
>>> refreshable braille?
>>> Are you hoping to produce embossed output in braille?
>>> Are you wanting to use a screen reader?
>>> What computer applications do you hope to use?
>>> Do you need web access?
>>> Are you certain you want a conventional computer as compared to
>>> something
>>
>>> like a PAC Mate or a Braille Note?
>>>
>>>
>>> The first thing to do would be to list out your goals and probably to
>>> prioritize them as well. If this is a low vision situation as compared
>>> to
>>
>>> a blindness issue for example, there are ways to magnify text and
>>> increase contrast that aren't terribly expensive or even free in some
>>> cases. Is this mostly about web access or maybe printing out stories 
>>> she
>>> writes? The questions go on and on...
>>>
>>> If you're using a PC and want a screen reader, JAWS costs $900 to  $1100
>>> but you can also get a demo version (for free!) that runs about  45 or 
>>> 50
>>> minutes. After that you have to restart the machine before it  will work
>>> again, but again, it is free to try.
>>>
>>> If you have or will get a BrailleNote or PAC Mate you may have a no-
>>> additional-cost solution right there for refreshable braille  (depending
>>> on the model).
>>>
>>> For embossing braille you either need to think used equipment or  budget
>>> close $3000 for that alone, but if you have a decent PC  available and
>>> just want a screen reader, you may be able to get a  temporary solution
>>> going with only a free download. Sometimes, you can  get the school to
>>> print things out for you and avoid buying an  embosser & the related
>>> software for that.
>>>
>>> What does she use at school? Do they have any equipment to let her use
>>> at
>>
>>> home? Do you have to buy a new PC or do you already have one for  her?
>>> Ideally, I'd say go to NFB convention and see all sorts of things  on
>>> display but that just happened last week, so unless you have a  state
>>> convention coming up with a technology display, that may not be  soon
>>> enough since the Dallas National convention was only last week  (the
>>> national convention won't happen again until Orlando in July 2011).
>>>
>>> Feel free to reply with more details for more suggestions though it  may
>>> be best to take this off list as the discussion can become tedious  for
>>> so
>>
>>> many to be reading through.
>>>
>>> Richard
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Jul 11, 2010, at 6:54 PM, jjordan_pa at yahoo.com wrote:
>>>
>>>> Anybody out there know what would be the best set up for my daughter 
>>>> as
>>>> far as computer technology? There are so many "things" out there  and 
>>>> it
>>>> is all so expensive. Can't exactly buy it and "hope" that it  is 
>>>> useful.
>>>> I need to "know" that it is useful before I purchase.  What do I need 
>>>> so
>>>> that my 9 year old can use a computer like her  peers? I am so
>>>> frustrated
>>
>>>> right now and don't know where to turn.  HELP!!
>>>> Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
>>>
>>>
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