[blindkid] blindkid Digest, Vol 84, Issue 15

v_woodward at comcast.net v_woodward at comcast.net
Wed Apr 13 18:19:26 UTC 2011


My daughter started at FSDB in St. Augustine this year and she loves the school. I think she feels like she fits in and really enjoys all that they do there. Academically I was hoping to see more progress but I'm hoping that her second year will show much improvement. Your welcome to email me privatly v_woodward at comcast.net 

Vickie 



----- Original Message ----- 
From: blindkid-request at nfbnet.org 
To: blindkid at nfbnet.org 
Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2011 1:00:12 PM 
Subject: blindkid Digest, Vol 84, Issue 15 

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Today's Topics: 

1. St Augustine School for the Blind (janice) 
2. Re: St Augustine School for the Blind (Bo Page) 
3. Re: St Augustine School for the Blind (Shayla Lovett) 
4. Re: School Programs for 3 Year Old Student in Texas 
(Richard Holloway) 
5. Re: St Augustine School for the Blind (Doreen Franklin) 
6. Re: St Augustine School for the Blind (Richard Holloway) 
7. Re: St Augustine School for the Blind (Lenora J. Marten) 
8. Re: St Augustine School for the Blind (Lynda Zwinger) 


---------------------------------------------------------------------- 

Message: 1 
Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2011 17:02:54 +0000 
From: "janice" <jjordan_pa at yahoo.com> 
To: "NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List, \(for parents of blind children\)" 
<blindkid at nfbnet.org> 
Subject: [blindkid] St Augustine School for the Blind 
Message-ID: 
<1286334465-1302627773-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-993744716- at bda2178.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> 

Content-Type: text/plain 

Anyone out there familiar with the Florida School for the Blind? I am wanting to enroll my 10 yo daughter in a school for the blind and liked that they boast 75% of their students go on to higher education. I am willing to move to St Augustine or surrounding area. 

Janice 
Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T 

-----Original Message----- 
From: "Marie" <empwrn at bellsouth.net> 
Sender: blindkid-bounces at nfbnet.org 
Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2011 11:31:05 
To: 'NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List,\(for parents of blind children\)'<blindkid at nfbnet.org> 
Reply-To: "NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List, 
\(for parents of blind children\)" <blindkid at nfbnet.org> 
Subject: Re: [blindkid] Stages of cane use? 

Funny but it is very reassuring to hear that other kiddos do this too. I 
guess with time they will adapt to this as they adapt to all other things. 
It sure is hard that we can't just make life smooth for them, right? But 
then what kind of people would they grow up to be? such a balancing act! 

Marie (mother of Jack, born May 2005) 
Check out our blog at http://www.allaccesspasstojack.blogspot.com for 
glimpses into our busy life with a boy who is busy growing and developing in 
his own way in his own time 


-----Original Message----- 
From: blindkid-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindkid-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
Behalf Of Penny Duffy 
Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2011 11:25 AM 
To: NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List, (for parents of blind children) 
Subject: Re: [blindkid] Stages of cane use? 

Marie.. 

I think as parents we want our kids to do mobility tools and techniques 
correctly. Its hard because we know how hard it is. Kids sometimes have 
other ideas. LOL My daughter has a lot of of her peripheral vision so at 
times I feel it gives her too much confidence and she will end up running 
into something. Those times when my daughter has a lot of problems seeing 
her cane skills get a lot less lazy. 

On Tue, Apr 12, 2011 at 12:17 PM, Marie <empwrn at bellsouth.net> wrote: 

> Thanks everyone for your ideas and support. We're gonna try to keep it 
> light 
> and easy and not overly stress. The reason I asked if this was a phase is 
> he 
> previously did use the cane to find curbs and what not. His cane skills 
> seem 
> to vary with use and his visual abilities of the day....honestly, if it's 
> one of those days where we are amazed that he seems to see stuff that he 
> "should not" be able to see, it's going to be a frustrating cane day. It's 
> kind of ironic really... 
> 
> Thanks for the ideas. We are going to try games to keep him moving quickly 
> like everyone suggested and take some calculated fall/bump risks. Thanks 
> again! 
> 
> Marie (mother of Jack, born May 2005) 
> Check out our blog at http://www.allaccesspasstojack.blogspot.com for 
> glimpses into our busy life with a boy who is busy growing and developing 
> in 
> his own way in his own time 
> 
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: blindkid-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindkid-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
> Behalf Of Richard Holloway 
> Sent: Monday, April 11, 2011 10:01 PM 
> To: NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List, (for parents of blind children) 
> Subject: Re: [blindkid] Stages of cane use? 
> 
> Very true, and it still goes on from what I understand. I know that we met 
> with HEAVY resistance over our daughter's using an actual cane as opposed 
> to 
> a so-called "pre-cane-device" when working with a local center for the 
> blind. (This would have been about seven years ago-- mid 2004.) I thought 
> (and continue to think) very highly of that center which works with the 
> blind from newborns clear through to adults, but we absolutely went to WAR 
> over the cane issue. 
> 
> We were told what many people have heard: kids need to be able to 
> understand 
> the concept of using a cane before they try so they don't have to 
> "un-learn" 
> bad habits. I think that sounds rather convincing for about 5 or 10 
> seconds, 
> but then I take pause and realize that sighted kids don't "understand" 
> walking at first either. Who exactly tells parents of SIGHTED children to 
> stop them from trying to walk until THEY fully understand the concept? 
That 
> isn't how learning works in ANY early development concept of which I'm 
> aware, and I'm fully convinced it has nothing to do with walking with a 
> cane. Parents who are new to this situation (at least from what I recall) 
> may tend to think they are waiting for some professional-- (maybe a 
> doctor?) 
> to "prescribe" a cane. It doesn't work that way of corse, but how would 
> they 
> know? And it isn't like there is a white cane department at Wal-Mart. 
> Doctors rarely (if ever) are going to tell parents to go and get a white 
> cane for their child. Many vision centers, by-and-large, tend to delay 
> suggesting canes early on. Many O&M instructors in schools are slow to get 
> canes into young kids hands as well. I know of cases where they have also 
> brought canes for O&M lessons but taken them away between lessons to 
> control 
> the canes and insure they are being used (and learned about) properly. 
> 
> This is no exaggeration-- in our situation at the local center they 
> literally took every other parent in our daughter's class aside when she 
> was 
> around 18 months old and told them that they objected to use of a cane for 
> a 
> child so young as ours. They told these parents that they were supporting 
> our specific wishes AGAINST their better judgement. (Meanwhile my wife and 
> I 
> were distributing free NFB canes to all the other kids in the class we 
> could 
> behind the scenes, so to speak.) 
> 
> If any of you are not aware, "pre-cane-devices" are generally little PVC 
> trapezoids with the narrow end at the top (where it is held) and the wide 
> end at the bottom. Larger PVC rollers are typically added on the bottom 
> (big 
> pipe around small) and allegedly assist the walker with forward liner 
> motion. In fact, I'll agree they probably do that. Unfortunately, they 
also 
> are heavy and cumbersome. (Compare the weight to a fiberglass NFB cane I'd 
> estimate it is at least 10x the weight, probably more.) The devices 
> generally cause children to lean forward, creating posture issues, and 
> let's 
> face it, the last thing we need to do is encourage blind kids to look down 
> all the time, right? How many of us are constantly trying to get kids with 
> little or no vision to sit straight and keep their face looking forward 
(so 
> to speak). These devices prevent in-step motion with the hands which we 
all 
> need to develop. They occupy both hands as well and they are entirely 
> useless for navigating stairs, needing to be carried by an adult or 
hoisted 
> onto the child's shoulder as they attempt to traverse a staircase. I'd 
also 
> suggest they make a child stand out a lot more than a cane. There may be 
> cases where some small percentage of blind kids benefit from such devices, 
> but I don't believe there are many cases where children, at least children 
> with blindness as their sole impairment, need to use pre-cane-devices over 
> a 
> white cane. I say, if you feel you need something like that for a very 
> young 
> child, give them a push toy that is fun and age appropriate and can serve 
> the same purpose. If they can move about with a toy shopping cart in front 
> of them, they'll be ready for a cane soon enough instead. Besides, they 
can 
> explore with a cane when just standing or even sitting down as well. Very 
> early cane use is as much about extending a blind child's reach and world 
> as 
> it is about learning to walk effectively. 
> 
> "Old school" O&M practices would have the general public as well as the 
> blind population believe they know all the answers and there is some 
> "secret 
> formula" involved in teaching cane travel, especially to small children. I 
> have huge respect for many in the O&M profession, but the ones I respect 
> the 
> most are the ones who realize that since traditional O&M was developed as 
a 
> model for rehabilitation of previously sighted adults who had lost their 
> vision in World War II, some adaptations may be appropriate in the 
teaching 
> method needed for use with children, especially when they are very young 
> and 
> have had little if any vision ever. (Not that I have a strong opinion on 
> the matter or anything like that, LOL...) 
> 
> 
> 
> On Apr 11, 2011, at 8:30 PM, Carol Castellano wrote: 
> 
> > Some historical perspective: it wasn't that long ago that kids were not 
> even getting canes till they were 14 or 15 years old (there WERE no little 
> canes!). (See 
> < 
> 
http://www.blind.net/alternative-techniques/mobility/cane-and-preschoolers- 
> the-eight-year-revolution.html> 
> http://www.blind.net/alternative-techniques/m 
> obility/cane-and-preschoolers-the-eight-year-revolution.html for some 
> history.) 
> > 
> > Virtually all of the adults you see walking with canes who are in their 
> 30s or older learned these techniques after they were 15 years old. So 
> your little guys who have had canes in their hands since they could stand 
> up 
> are really ahead of the game. I'm sure you've seen many extremely good 
> travelers who are older than 30. If they can get that good even tho they 
> started late, just imagine how terrific your kids are going to be!!! 
> > 
> > Cheers, 
> > Carol 
> > 
> > Carol Castellano 
> > Director of Programs 
> > National Organization of Parents of Blind Children 
> > 973-377-0976 
> > carol_castellano at verizon.net 
> > www.nopbc.org 
> > 
> > At 03:40 PM 4/11/2011, you wrote: 
> >> Our phrase has become "get your good grip" (or "is that your good 
> grip?") 
> because that used to be the key issue-- not holding it correctly. Now she 
> actually may have her good grip, but she's either not going side-to-side 
> (fairly common for her), or using the "magical floating technique" with 
the 
> tip hovering just above curb height in front of her. Mentioning her grip 
> usually gets the fastest response. 
> >> 
> >> The other thing I keep working on is her remembering when to go to a 
> staff grip, like in close quarters with others, when standing in a line, 
or 
> at stairs. All I have to say now is "staff" if she forgets, and I think 
> that 
> is getting to be needed less often as well. 
> >> 
> >> There is a lot to remember and there are so many distractions for us 
all 
> when we're out and about-- it is no wonder it takes a while for all of 
this 
> to become automatic... 
> >> 
> >> Richard Holloway, Vice President 
> >> Georgia Organization of Parents of Blind Children 
> >> www.gopbc.org 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> On Apr 11, 2011, at 3:00 PM, Samantha Parker wrote: 
> >> 
> >> > I agree with "tough love" in a safe way! My 6 year old doesn't use a 
> sweeping motion in front and wow...she misses things...all I have to say 
is 
> "Bev, that's why I tell you..." and she finishes with "sweep your cane." 
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > --- On Mon, 4/11/11, Richard Holloway <rholloway at gopbc.org> wrote: 
> >> > 
> >> > From: Richard Holloway <rholloway at gopbc.org> 
> >> > Subject: Re: [blindkid] Stages of cane use? 
> >> > To: "NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List, (for parents of blind children)" 
> <blindkid at nfbnet.org> 
> >> > Date: Monday, April 11, 2011, 11:08 AM 
> >> > 
> >> > Merry-Noel and Brandy both make good points. Our daughter spent a 
good 
> deal of time dragging the cane behind her for a while. No matter what, I'd 
> remind him that you're glad he has his cane with him because if he starts 
> leaving it or throwing it down then you have another battle to fight. 
> >> > 
> >> > When Kendra would fail to use her cane properly, apart from reminding 
> her over and over, I'd sometimes let her walk into things, trip, and 
> sometimes even enhance the opportunity for her to have a minor crash. 
(That 
> may overstate, but I would not always give her any verbal warning of 
> something in her way for example.) Mind you, I was always poised and ready 
> to grab her when she was very little before a major crash or fall. It 
> sounds 
> a little mean, but far better to have a few trips and falls when we're 
> there 
> to help than for her than to figure someone will always be around to guide 
> her. Someday, we won't be there, and we know that. 
> >> > 
> >> > Ultimately, we could often make this into a funny discussion and 
avoid 
> any crashes up front-- "Your cane is telling you what's behind you-- you 
> already know where you've been. Don't you want to know what's in front of 
> you?"... That sort of thing. Kendra uses her cane very well now, but at 
> times she still "floats" her cane in the air and stops clearing her path 
> properly. Then I may remind her that her cane is just telling her what's 
in 
> the air in front of her-- not on the ground, but after that, I will let 
her 
> trip herself on a curb or stair if it is in a fairly safe place (no cars 
> nearby, nothing major to fall over if she stumbles). It is all sort of a 
> calculated risk in "tough love" trying to let her learn from small 
mistakes 
> to avoid huge ones later on. 
> >> > 
> >> > Richard 
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > On Apr 10, 2011, at 8:47 PM, Merry-Noel Chamberlain wrote: 
> >> > 
> >> >> 
> >> >> 
> >> >> 
> >> >> 
> >> >> 
> >> >> Marie, 
> >> >> Has Jack ever had O&M without using his eyes; aka using sleepshades? 
> Perhaps I would try that. If wearing shades is difficult for him - locate 
> a 
> dark room (a room that has no windows) and shut off the lights. Sometimes 
> I 
> use a school gym. I will play games in the gym such as Red-light, 
> Green-Light with no light on. We practice running in there, too. This 
> builds some confidance in the cane. Also, tell Jack he needs to hold his 
> head up when he walks because that is the proper posture. By wearing 
> sleep-shades he learns the cane lets him know things such as curbs and 
> stairs. Prase him (or the cane - smile) when you notice that his cane 
> found 
> something that his feet didn't find. Walking faster helps quite a bit. 
> >> >> Merry-Noel 
> >> >> 
> >> >> --- On Sun, 4/10/11, Marie <empwrn at bellsouth.net> wrote: 
> >> >> 
> >> >> 
> >> >> From: Marie <empwrn at bellsouth.net> 
> >> >> Subject: [blindkid] Stages of cane use? 
> >> >> To: "Blindkid email" <blindkid at nfbnet.org> 
> >> >> Date: Sunday, April 10, 2011, 11:19 PM 
> >> >> 
> >> >> 
> >> >> I am getting very frustrated with Jack who is slowing down and using 
> his feet rather than maintaining his rhythm and using his cane to find 
> curbs/obstacles. Yet he insists on carrying his cane. Is this just a 
phase? 
> Tips anyone? 
> >> >> 
> >> >> 
> >> >> Marie (mother of Jack, born May 2005) 
> >> >> Check out our blog at http://www.allaccesspasstojack.blogspot.comfor 
> glimpses into our busy life with a boy who is busy growing and developing 
> in 
> his own way in his own time 
> >> >> 
> >> >> _______________________________________________ 
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> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > _______________________________________________ 
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-- 
--Penny 
---------- 
Adventures with Abby - visionfora.blogspot.com 
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------------------------------ 

Message: 2 
Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2011 10:10:31 -0700 (PDT) 
From: Bo Page <bo.page at sbcglobal.net> 
To: jjordan_pa at yahoo.com, "NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List, \(for 
parents of blind children\)" <blindkid at nfbnet.org> 
Subject: Re: [blindkid] St Augustine School for the Blind 
Message-ID: <521119.61216.qm at web180005.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 

I had my daughter attend FSDB for one year and then left.? You can email me 
directly and I'll share my experience with you. bo.page at sbcglobal.net 
Bo 




________________________________ 
From: janice <jjordan_pa at yahoo.com> 
To: "NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List, (for parents of blind children)" 
<blindkid at nfbnet.org> 
Sent: Tue, April 12, 2011 1:02:54 PM 
Subject: [blindkid] St Augustine School for the Blind 

Anyone out there familiar with the Florida School for the Blind? I am wanting to 
enroll my 10 yo daughter in a school for the blind and liked that they boast 75% 
of their students go on to higher education. I am willing to move to St 
Augustine or surrounding area.? 


Janice 
Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T 

-----Original Message----- 
From: "Marie" <empwrn at bellsouth.net> 
Sender: blindkid-bounces at nfbnet.org 
Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2011 11:31:05 
To: 'NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List,\(for parents of blind 
children\)'<blindkid at nfbnet.org> 
Reply-To: "NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List, 
??? \(for parents of blind children\)" <blindkid at nfbnet.org> 
Subject: Re: [blindkid] Stages of cane use? 

Funny but it is very reassuring to hear that other kiddos do this too. I 
guess with time they will adapt to this as they adapt to all other things. 
It sure is hard that we can't just make life smooth for them, right? But 
then what kind of people would they grow up to be? such a balancing act! 

Marie (mother of Jack, born May 2005) 
Check out our blog at http://www.allaccesspasstojack.blogspot.com for 
glimpses into our busy life with a boy who is busy growing and developing in 
his own way in his own time 


-----Original Message----- 
From: blindkid-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindkid-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
Behalf Of Penny Duffy 
Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2011 11:25 AM 
To: NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List, (for parents of blind children) 
Subject: Re: [blindkid] Stages of cane use? 

Marie.. 

I think as parents we want our kids to do mobility tools and techniques 
correctly. Its hard because we know how hard it is.? Kids sometimes have 
other ideas. LOL? My daughter has a lot of of her peripheral vision so at 
times I feel it gives her too much confidence and she will end up running 
into something.? Those times when my daughter has a lot of problems seeing 
her cane skills get a lot less lazy. 

On Tue, Apr 12, 2011 at 12:17 PM, Marie <empwrn at bellsouth.net> wrote: 

> Thanks everyone for your ideas and support. We're gonna try to keep it 
> light 
> and easy and not overly stress. The reason I asked if this was a phase is 
> he 
> previously did use the cane to find curbs and what not. His cane skills 
> seem 
> to vary with use and his visual abilities of the day....honestly, if it's 
> one of those days where we are amazed that he seems to see stuff that he 
> "should not" be able to see, it's going to be a frustrating cane day. It's 
> kind of ironic really... 
> 
> Thanks for the ideas. We are going to try games to keep him moving quickly 
> like everyone suggested and take some calculated fall/bump risks. Thanks 
> again! 
> 
> Marie (mother of Jack, born May 2005) 
> Check out our blog at http://www.allaccesspasstojack.blogspot.com for 
> glimpses into our busy life with a boy who is busy growing and developing 
> in 
> his own way in his own time 
> 
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: blindkid-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindkid-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
> Behalf Of Richard Holloway 
> Sent: Monday, April 11, 2011 10:01 PM 
> To: NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List, (for parents of blind children) 
> Subject: Re: [blindkid] Stages of cane use? 
> 
> Very true, and it still goes on from what I understand. I know that we met 
> with HEAVY resistance over our daughter's using an actual cane as opposed 
> to 
> a so-called "pre-cane-device" when working with a local center for the 
> blind. (This would have been about seven years ago-- mid 2004.) I thought 
> (and continue to think) very highly of that center which works with the 
> blind from newborns clear through to adults, but we absolutely went to WAR 
> over the cane issue. 
> 
> We were told what many people have heard: kids need to be able to 
> understand 
> the concept of using a cane before they try so they don't have to 
> "un-learn" 
> bad habits. I think that sounds rather convincing for about 5 or 10 
> seconds, 
> but then I take pause and realize that sighted kids don't "understand" 
> walking at first either. Who exactly tells parents of SIGHTED children to 
> stop them from trying to walk until THEY fully understand the concept? 
That 
> isn't how learning works in ANY early development concept of which I'm 
> aware, and I'm fully convinced it has nothing to do with walking with a 
> cane. Parents who are new to this situation (at least from what I recall) 
> may tend to think they are waiting for some professional-- (maybe a 
> doctor?) 
> to "prescribe" a cane. It doesn't work that way of corse, but how would 
> they 
> know? And it isn't like there is a white cane department at Wal-Mart. 
> Doctors rarely (if ever) are going to tell parents to go and get a white 
> cane for their child. Many vision centers, by-and-large, tend to delay 
> suggesting canes early on. Many O&M instructors in schools are slow to get 
> canes into young kids hands as well. I know of cases where they have also 
> brought canes for O&M lessons but taken them away between lessons to 
> control 
> the canes and insure they are being used (and learned about) properly. 
> 
> This is no exaggeration-- in our situation at the local center they 
> literally took every other parent in our daughter's class aside when she 
> was 
> around 18 months old and told them that they objected to use of a cane for 
> a 
> child so young as ours. They told these parents that they were supporting 
> our specific wishes AGAINST their better judgement. (Meanwhile my wife and 
> I 
> were distributing free NFB canes to all the other kids in the class we 
> could 
> behind the scenes, so to speak.) 
> 
> If any of you are not aware, "pre-cane-devices" are generally little PVC 
> trapezoids with the narrow end at the top (where it is held) and the wide 
> end at the bottom. Larger PVC rollers are typically added on the bottom 
> (big 
> pipe around small) and allegedly assist the walker with forward liner 
> motion. In fact, I'll agree they probably do that. Unfortunately, they 
also 
> are heavy and cumbersome. (Compare the weight to a fiberglass NFB cane I'd 
> estimate it is at least 10x the weight, probably more.) The devices 
> generally cause children to lean forward, creating posture issues, and 
> let's 
> face it, the last thing we need to do is encourage blind kids to look down 
> all the time, right? How many of us are constantly trying to get kids with 
> little or no vision to sit straight and keep their face looking forward 
(so 
> to speak). These devices prevent in-step motion with the hands which we 
all 
> need to develop. They occupy both hands as well and they are entirely 
> useless for navigating stairs, needing to be carried by an adult or 
hoisted 
> onto the child's shoulder as they attempt to traverse a staircase. I'd 
also 
> suggest they make a child stand out a lot more than a cane. There may be 
> cases where some small percentage of blind kids benefit from such devices, 
> but I don't believe there are many cases where children, at least children 
> with blindness as their sole impairment, need to use pre-cane-devices over 
> a 
> white cane. I say, if you feel you need something like that for a very 
> young 
> child, give them a push toy that is fun and age appropriate and can serve 
> the same purpose. If they can move about with a toy shopping cart in front 
> of them, they'll be ready for a cane soon enough instead. Besides, they 
can 
> explore with a cane when just standing or even sitting down as well. Very 
> early cane use is as much about extending a blind child's reach and world 
> as 
> it is about learning to walk effectively. 
> 
> "Old school" O&M practices would have the general public as well as the 
> blind population believe they know all the answers and there is some 
> "secret 
> formula" involved in teaching cane travel, especially to small children. I 
> have huge respect for many in the O&M profession, but the ones I respect 
> the 
> most are the ones who realize that since traditional O&M was developed as 
a 
> model for rehabilitation of previously sighted adults who had lost their 
> vision in World War II, some adaptations may be appropriate in the 
teaching 
> method needed for use with children, especially when they are very young 
> and 
> have had little if any vision ever.? (Not that I have a strong opinion on 
> the matter or anything like that, LOL...) 
> 
> 
> 
> On Apr 11, 2011, at 8:30 PM, Carol Castellano wrote: 
> 
> > Some historical perspective:? it wasn't that long ago that kids were not 
> even getting canes till they were 14 or 15 years old (there WERE no little 
> canes!).? (See 
> < 
> 
http://www.blind.net/alternative-techniques/mobility/cane-and-preschoolers- 
> the-eight-year-revolution.html> 
> http://www.blind.net/alternative-techniques/m 
> obility/cane-and-preschoolers-the-eight-year-revolution.html for some 
> history.) 
> > 
> > Virtually all of the adults you see walking with canes who are in their 
> 30s or older learned these techniques after they were 15 years old.? So 
> your little guys who have had canes in their hands since they could stand 
> up 
> are really ahead of the game.? I'm sure you've seen many extremely good 
> travelers who are older than 30.? If they can get that good even tho they 
> started late, just imagine how terrific your kids are going to be!!! 
> > 
> > Cheers, 
> > Carol 
> > 
> > Carol Castellano 
> > Director of Programs 
> > National Organization of Parents of Blind Children 
> > 973-377-0976 
> > carol_castellano at verizon.net 
> > www.nopbc.org 
> > 
> > At 03:40 PM 4/11/2011, you wrote: 
> >> Our phrase has become "get your good grip" (or "is that your good 
> grip?") 
> because that used to be the key issue-- not holding it correctly. Now she 
> actually may have her good grip, but she's either not going side-to-side 
> (fairly common for her), or using the "magical floating technique" with 
the 
> tip hovering just above curb height in front of her. Mentioning her grip 
> usually gets the fastest response. 
> >> 
> >> The other thing I keep working on is her remembering when to go to a 
> staff grip, like in close quarters with others, when standing in a line, 
or 
> at stairs. All I have to say now is "staff" if she forgets, and I think 
> that 
> is getting to be needed less often as well. 
> >> 
> >> There is a lot to remember and there are so many distractions for us 
all 
> when we're out and about-- it is no wonder it takes a while for all of 
this 
> to become automatic... 
> >> 
> >> Richard Holloway, Vice President 
> >> Georgia Organization of Parents of Blind Children 
> >> www.gopbc.org 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> On Apr 11, 2011, at 3:00 PM, Samantha Parker wrote: 
> >> 
> >> > I agree with "tough love" in a safe way!? My 6 year old doesn't use a 
> sweeping motion in front and wow...she misses things...all I have to say 
is 
> "Bev, that's why I tell you..." and she finishes with "sweep your cane." 
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > --- On Mon, 4/11/11, Richard Holloway <rholloway at gopbc.org> wrote: 
> >> > 
> >> > From: Richard Holloway <rholloway at gopbc.org> 
> >> > Subject: Re: [blindkid] Stages of cane use? 
> >> > To: "NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List, (for parents of blind children)" 
> <blindkid at nfbnet.org> 
> >> > Date: Monday, April 11, 2011, 11:08 AM 
> >> > 
> >> > Merry-Noel and Brandy both make good points. Our daughter spent a 
good 
> deal of time dragging the cane behind her for a while. No matter what, I'd 
> remind him that you're glad he has his cane with him because if he starts 
> leaving it or throwing it down then you have another battle to fight. 
> >> > 
> >> > When Kendra would fail to use her cane properly, apart from reminding 
> her over and over, I'd sometimes? let her walk into things, trip, and 
> sometimes even enhance the opportunity for her to have a minor crash. 
(That 
> may overstate, but I would not always give her any verbal warning of 
> something in her way for example.) Mind you, I was always poised and ready 
> to grab her when she was very little before a major crash or fall. It 
> sounds 
> a little mean, but far better to have a few trips and falls when we're 
> there 
> to help than for her than to figure someone will always be around to guide 
> her. Someday, we won't be there, and we know that. 
> >> > 
> >> > Ultimately, we could often make this into a funny discussion and 
avoid 
> any crashes up front-- "Your cane is telling you what's behind you-- you 
> already know where you've been. Don't you want to know what's in front of 
> you?"... That sort of thing. Kendra uses her cane very well now, but at 
> times she still "floats" her cane in the air and stops clearing her path 
> properly. Then I may remind her that her cane is just telling her what's 
in 
> the air in front of her-- not on the ground, but after that, I will let 
her 
> trip herself on a curb or stair if it is in a fairly safe place (no cars 
> nearby, nothing major to fall over if she stumbles). It is all sort of a 
> calculated risk in "tough love" trying to let her learn from small 
mistakes 
> to avoid huge ones later on. 
> >> > 
> >> > Richard 
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > On Apr 10, 2011, at 8:47 PM, Merry-Noel Chamberlain wrote: 
> >> > 
> >> >> 
> >> >> 
> >> >> 
> >> >> 
> >> >> 
> >> >> Marie, 
> >> >> Has Jack ever had O&M without using his eyes; aka using sleepshades? 
> Perhaps I would try that.? If wearing shades is difficult for him - locate 
> a 
> dark room (a room that has no windows) and shut off the lights.? Sometimes 
> I 
> use a school gym.? I will play games in the gym such as Red-light, 
> Green-Light with no light on.? We practice running in there, too.? This 
> builds some confidance in the cane.? Also, tell Jack he needs to hold his 
> head up when he walks because that is the proper posture.? By wearing 
> sleep-shades he learns the cane lets him know things such as curbs and 
> stairs.? Prase him (or the cane - smile) when you notice that his cane 
> found 
> something that his feet didn't find.? Walking faster helps quite a bit. 
> >> >> Merry-Noel 
> >> >> 
> >> >> --- On Sun, 4/10/11, Marie <empwrn at bellsouth.net> wrote: 
> >> >> 
> >> >> 
> >> >> From: Marie <empwrn at bellsouth.net> 
> >> >> Subject: [blindkid] Stages of cane use? 
> >> >> To: "Blindkid email" <blindkid at nfbnet.org> 
> >> >> Date: Sunday, April 10, 2011, 11:19 PM 
> >> >> 
> >> >> 
> >> >> I am getting very frustrated with Jack who is slowing down and using 
> his feet rather than maintaining his rhythm and using his cane to find 
> curbs/obstacles. Yet he insists on carrying his cane. Is this just a 
phase? 
> Tips anyone? 
> >> >> 
> >> >> 
> >> >> Marie (mother of Jack, born May 2005) 
> >> >> Check out our blog at http://www.allaccesspasstojack.blogspot.comfor 
> glimpses into our busy life with a boy who is busy growing and developing 
> in 
> his own way in his own time 
> >> >> 
> >> >> _______________________________________________ 
> >> >> blindkid mailing list 
> >> >> blindkid at nfbnet.org 
> >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindkid_nfbnet.org 
> >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
for 
> blindkid: 
> >> >> 
> 
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindkid_nfbnet.org/owinm%40yahoo.com 
> >> >> _______________________________________________ 
> >> >> blindkid mailing list 
> >> >> blindkid at nfbnet.org 
> >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindkid_nfbnet.org 
> >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
for 
> blindkid: 
> >> >> 
> 
> 
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindkid_nfbnet.org/rholloway%40gopbc. 
> org 
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > _______________________________________________ 
> >> > blindkid mailing list 
> >> > blindkid at nfbnet.org 
> >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindkid_nfbnet.org 
> >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindkid: 
> >> > 
> 
> 
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindkid_nfbnet.org/sparkaspirit%40yah 
> oo.com 
> >> > _______________________________________________ 
> >> > blindkid mailing list 
> >> > blindkid at nfbnet.org 
> >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindkid_nfbnet.org 
> >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindkid: 
> >> > 
> 
> 
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindkid_nfbnet.org/rholloway%40gopbc. 
> org 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> _______________________________________________ 
> >> blindkid mailing list 
> >> blindkid at nfbnet.org 
> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindkid_nfbnet.org 
> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindkid: 
> >> 
> 
> 
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindkid_nfbnet.org/blindchildren%40ve 
> rizon.net 
> > _______________________________________________ 
> > blindkid mailing list 
> > blindkid at nfbnet.org 
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindkid_nfbnet.org 
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindkid: 
> > 
> 
> 
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> org 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________ 
> blindkid mailing list 
> blindkid at nfbnet.org 
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindkid_nfbnet.org 
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindkid: 
> 
> 
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindkid_nfbnet.org/empwrn%40bellsouth 
> .net 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________ 
> blindkid mailing list 
> blindkid at nfbnet.org 
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindkid_nfbnet.org 
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindkid: 
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> 
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.com 
> 



-- 
--Penny 
---------- 
Adventures with Abby - visionfora.blogspot.com 
_______________________________________________ 
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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
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------------------------------ 

Message: 3 
Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2011 10:12:38 -0700 (PDT) 
From: Shayla Lovett <shayla_lovett at yahoo.com> 
To: jjordan_pa at yahoo.com, "NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List, \(for 
parents of blind children\)" <blindkid at nfbnet.org> 
Subject: Re: [blindkid] St Augustine School for the Blind 
Message-ID: <922459.18231.qm at web37401.mail.mud.yahoo.com> 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii 

I have a nine year old in third grade at the FSDB and we love it. WE moved to 
st Augustine for her to go there and have no regrets. The city and school are 
great! 

Feel free to contact me off list if you like. 

Thanks 

shayla 



________________________________ 
From: janice <jjordan_pa at yahoo.com> 
To: "NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List, (for parents of blind children)" 
<blindkid at nfbnet.org> 
Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2011 13:02:54 
Subject: [blindkid] St Augustine School for the Blind 

Anyone out there familiar with the Florida School for the Blind? I am wanting to 
enroll my 10 yo daughter in a school for the blind and liked that they boast 75% 
of their students go on to higher education. I am willing to move to St 
Augustine or surrounding area. 


Janice 
Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T 

-----Original Message----- 
From: "Marie" <empwrn at bellsouth.net> 
Sender: blindkid-bounces at nfbnet.org 
Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2011 11:31:05 
To: 'NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List,\(for parents of blind 
children\)'<blindkid at nfbnet.org> 
Reply-To: "NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List, 
\(for parents of blind children\)" <blindkid at nfbnet.org> 
Subject: Re: [blindkid] Stages of cane use? 

Funny but it is very reassuring to hear that other kiddos do this too. I 
guess with time they will adapt to this as they adapt to all other things. 
It sure is hard that we can't just make life smooth for them, right? But 
then what kind of people would they grow up to be? such a balancing act! 

Marie (mother of Jack, born May 2005) 
Check out our blog at http://www.allaccesspasstojack.blogspot.com for 
glimpses into our busy life with a boy who is busy growing and developing in 
his own way in his own time 


-----Original Message----- 
From: blindkid-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindkid-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
Behalf Of Penny Duffy 
Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2011 11:25 AM 
To: NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List, (for parents of blind children) 
Subject: Re: [blindkid] Stages of cane use? 

Marie.. 

I think as parents we want our kids to do mobility tools and techniques 
correctly. Its hard because we know how hard it is. Kids sometimes have 
other ideas. LOL My daughter has a lot of of her peripheral vision so at 
times I feel it gives her too much confidence and she will end up running 
into something. Those times when my daughter has a lot of problems seeing 
her cane skills get a lot less lazy. 

On Tue, Apr 12, 2011 at 12:17 PM, Marie <empwrn at bellsouth.net> wrote: 

> Thanks everyone for your ideas and support. We're gonna try to keep it 
> light 
> and easy and not overly stress. The reason I asked if this was a phase is 
> he 
> previously did use the cane to find curbs and what not. His cane skills 
> seem 
> to vary with use and his visual abilities of the day....honestly, if it's 
> one of those days where we are amazed that he seems to see stuff that he 
> "should not" be able to see, it's going to be a frustrating cane day. It's 
> kind of ironic really... 
> 
> Thanks for the ideas. We are going to try games to keep him moving quickly 
> like everyone suggested and take some calculated fall/bump risks. Thanks 
> again! 
> 
> Marie (mother of Jack, born May 2005) 
> Check out our blog at http://www.allaccesspasstojack.blogspot.com for 
> glimpses into our busy life with a boy who is busy growing and developing 
> in 
> his own way in his own time 
> 
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: blindkid-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindkid-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
> Behalf Of Richard Holloway 
> Sent: Monday, April 11, 2011 10:01 PM 
> To: NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List, (for parents of blind children) 
> Subject: Re: [blindkid] Stages of cane use? 
> 
> Very true, and it still goes on from what I understand. I know that we met 
> with HEAVY resistance over our daughter's using an actual cane as opposed 
> to 
> a so-called "pre-cane-device" when working with a local center for the 
> blind. (This would have been about seven years ago-- mid 2004.) I thought 
> (and continue to think) very highly of that center which works with the 
> blind from newborns clear through to adults, but we absolutely went to WAR 
> over the cane issue. 
> 
> We were told what many people have heard: kids need to be able to 
> understand 
> the concept of using a cane before they try so they don't have to 
> "un-learn" 
> bad habits. I think that sounds rather convincing for about 5 or 10 
> seconds, 
> but then I take pause and realize that sighted kids don't "understand" 
> walking at first either. Who exactly tells parents of SIGHTED children to 
> stop them from trying to walk until THEY fully understand the concept? 
That 
> isn't how learning works in ANY early development concept of which I'm 
> aware, and I'm fully convinced it has nothing to do with walking with a 
> cane. Parents who are new to this situation (at least from what I recall) 
> may tend to think they are waiting for some professional-- (maybe a 
> doctor?) 
> to "prescribe" a cane. It doesn't work that way of corse, but how would 
> they 
> know? And it isn't like there is a white cane department at Wal-Mart. 
> Doctors rarely (if ever) are going to tell parents to go and get a white 
> cane for their child. Many vision centers, by-and-large, tend to delay 
> suggesting canes early on. Many O&M instructors in schools are slow to get 
> canes into young kids hands as well. I know of cases where they have also 
> brought canes for O&M lessons but taken them away between lessons to 
> control 
> the canes and insure they are being used (and learned about) properly. 
> 
> This is no exaggeration-- in our situation at the local center they 
> literally took every other parent in our daughter's class aside when she 
> was 
> around 18 months old and told them that they objected to use of a cane for 
> a 
> child so young as ours. They told these parents that they were supporting 
> our specific wishes AGAINST their better judgement. (Meanwhile my wife and 
> I 
> were distributing free NFB canes to all the other kids in the class we 
> could 
> behind the scenes, so to speak.) 
> 
> If any of you are not aware, "pre-cane-devices" are generally little PVC 
> trapezoids with the narrow end at the top (where it is held) and the wide 
> end at the bottom. Larger PVC rollers are typically added on the bottom 
> (big 
> pipe around small) and allegedly assist the walker with forward liner 
> motion. In fact, I'll agree they probably do that. Unfortunately, they 
also 
> are heavy and cumbersome. (Compare the weight to a fiberglass NFB cane I'd 
> estimate it is at least 10x the weight, probably more.) The devices 
> generally cause children to lean forward, creating posture issues, and 
> let's 
> face it, the last thing we need to do is encourage blind kids to look down 
> all the time, right? How many of us are constantly trying to get kids with 
> little or no vision to sit straight and keep their face looking forward 
(so 
> to speak). These devices prevent in-step motion with the hands which we 
all 
> need to develop. They occupy both hands as well and they are entirely 
> useless for navigating stairs, needing to be carried by an adult or 
hoisted 
> onto the child's shoulder as they attempt to traverse a staircase. I'd 
also 
> suggest they make a child stand out a lot more than a cane. There may be 
> cases where some small percentage of blind kids benefit from such devices, 
> but I don't believe there are many cases where children, at least children 
> with blindness as their sole impairment, need to use pre-cane-devices over 
> a 
> white cane. I say, if you feel you need something like that for a very 
> young 
> child, give them a push toy that is fun and age appropriate and can serve 
> the same purpose. If they can move about with a toy shopping cart in front 
> of them, they'll be ready for a cane soon enough instead. Besides, they 
can 
> explore with a cane when just standing or even sitting down as well. Very 
> early cane use is as much about extending a blind child's reach and world 
> as 
> it is about learning to walk effectively. 
> 
> "Old school" O&M practices would have the general public as well as the 
> blind population believe they know all the answers and there is some 
> "secret 
> formula" involved in teaching cane travel, especially to small children. I 
> have huge respect for many in the O&M profession, but the ones I respect 
> the 
> most are the ones who realize that since traditional O&M was developed as 
a 
> model for rehabilitation of previously sighted adults who had lost their 
> vision in World War II, some adaptations may be appropriate in the 
teaching 
> method needed for use with children, especially when they are very young 
> and 
> have had little if any vision ever. (Not that I have a strong opinion on 
> the matter or anything like that, LOL...) 
> 
> 
> 
> On Apr 11, 2011, at 8:30 PM, Carol Castellano wrote: 
> 
> > Some historical perspective: it wasn't that long ago that kids were not 
> even getting canes till they were 14 or 15 years old (there WERE no little 
> canes!). (See 
> < 
> 
http://www.blind.net/alternative-techniques/mobility/cane-and-preschoolers- 
> the-eight-year-revolution.html> 
> http://www.blind.net/alternative-techniques/m 
> obility/cane-and-preschoolers-the-eight-year-revolution.html for some 
> history.) 
> > 
> > Virtually all of the adults you see walking with canes who are in their 
> 30s or older learned these techniques after they were 15 years old. So 
> your little guys who have had canes in their hands since they could stand 
> up 
> are really ahead of the game. I'm sure you've seen many extremely good 
> travelers who are older than 30. If they can get that good even tho they 
> started late, just imagine how terrific your kids are going to be!!! 
> > 
> > Cheers, 
> > Carol 
> > 
> > Carol Castellano 
> > Director of Programs 
> > National Organization of Parents of Blind Children 
> > 973-377-0976 
> > carol_castellano at verizon.net 
> > www.nopbc.org 
> > 
> > At 03:40 PM 4/11/2011, you wrote: 
> >> Our phrase has become "get your good grip" (or "is that your good 
> grip?") 
> because that used to be the key issue-- not holding it correctly. Now she 
> actually may have her good grip, but she's either not going side-to-side 
> (fairly common for her), or using the "magical floating technique" with 
the 
> tip hovering just above curb height in front of her. Mentioning her grip 
> usually gets the fastest response. 
> >> 
> >> The other thing I keep working on is her remembering when to go to a 
> staff grip, like in close quarters with others, when standing in a line, 
or 
> at stairs. All I have to say now is "staff" if she forgets, and I think 
> that 
> is getting to be needed less often as well. 
> >> 
> >> There is a lot to remember and there are so many distractions for us 
all 
> when we're out and about-- it is no wonder it takes a while for all of 
this 
> to become automatic... 
> >> 
> >> Richard Holloway, Vice President 
> >> Georgia Organization of Parents of Blind Children 
> >> www.gopbc.org 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> On Apr 11, 2011, at 3:00 PM, Samantha Parker wrote: 
> >> 
> >> > I agree with "tough love" in a safe way! My 6 year old doesn't use a 
> sweeping motion in front and wow...she misses things...all I have to say 
is 
> "Bev, that's why I tell you..." and she finishes with "sweep your cane." 
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > --- On Mon, 4/11/11, Richard Holloway <rholloway at gopbc.org> wrote: 
> >> > 
> >> > From: Richard Holloway <rholloway at gopbc.org> 
> >> > Subject: Re: [blindkid] Stages of cane use? 
> >> > To: "NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List, (for parents of blind children)" 
> <blindkid at nfbnet.org> 
> >> > Date: Monday, April 11, 2011, 11:08 AM 
> >> > 
> >> > Merry-Noel and Brandy both make good points. Our daughter spent a 
good 
> deal of time dragging the cane behind her for a while. No matter what, I'd 
> remind him that you're glad he has his cane with him because if he starts 
> leaving it or throwing it down then you have another battle to fight. 
> >> > 
> >> > When Kendra would fail to use her cane properly, apart from reminding 
> her over and over, I'd sometimes let her walk into things, trip, and 
> sometimes even enhance the opportunity for her to have a minor crash. 
(That 
> may overstate, but I would not always give her any verbal warning of 
> something in her way for example.) Mind you, I was always poised and ready 
> to grab her when she was very little before a major crash or fall. It 
> sounds 
> a little mean, but far better to have a few trips and falls when we're 
> there 
> to help than for her than to figure someone will always be around to guide 
> her. Someday, we won't be there, and we know that. 
> >> > 
> >> > Ultimately, we could often make this into a funny discussion and 
avoid 
> any crashes up front-- "Your cane is telling you what's behind you-- you 
> already know where you've been. Don't you want to know what's in front of 
> you?"... That sort of thing. Kendra uses her cane very well now, but at 
> times she still "floats" her cane in the air and stops clearing her path 
> properly. Then I may remind her that her cane is just telling her what's 
in 
> the air in front of her-- not on the ground, but after that, I will let 
her 
> trip herself on a curb or stair if it is in a fairly safe place (no cars 
> nearby, nothing major to fall over if she stumbles). It is all sort of a 
> calculated risk in "tough love" trying to let her learn from small 
mistakes 
> to avoid huge ones later on. 
> >> > 
> >> > Richard 
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > On Apr 10, 2011, at 8:47 PM, Merry-Noel Chamberlain wrote: 
> >> > 
> >> >> 
> >> >> 
> >> >> 
> >> >> 
> >> >> 
> >> >> Marie, 
> >> >> Has Jack ever had O&M without using his eyes; aka using sleepshades? 
> Perhaps I would try that. If wearing shades is difficult for him - locate 
> a 
> dark room (a room that has no windows) and shut off the lights. Sometimes 
> I 
> use a school gym. I will play games in the gym such as Red-light, 
> Green-Light with no light on. We practice running in there, too. This 
> builds some confidance in the cane. Also, tell Jack he needs to hold his 
> head up when he walks because that is the proper posture. By wearing 
> sleep-shades he learns the cane lets him know things such as curbs and 
> stairs. Prase him (or the cane - smile) when you notice that his cane 
> found 
> something that his feet didn't find. Walking faster helps quite a bit. 
> >> >> Merry-Noel 
> >> >> 
> >> >> --- On Sun, 4/10/11, Marie <empwrn at bellsouth.net> wrote: 
> >> >> 
> >> >> 
> >> >> From: Marie <empwrn at bellsouth.net> 
> >> >> Subject: [blindkid] Stages of cane use? 
> >> >> To: "Blindkid email" <blindkid at nfbnet.org> 
> >> >> Date: Sunday, April 10, 2011, 11:19 PM 
> >> >> 
> >> >> 
> >> >> I am getting very frustrated with Jack who is slowing down and using 
> his feet rather than maintaining his rhythm and using his cane to find 
> curbs/obstacles. Yet he insists on carrying his cane. Is this just a 
phase? 
> Tips anyone? 
> >> >> 
> >> >> 
> >> >> Marie (mother of Jack, born May 2005) 
> >> >> Check out our blog at http://www.allaccesspasstojack.blogspot.comfor 
> glimpses into our busy life with a boy who is busy growing and developing 
> in 
> his own way in his own time 
> >> >> 
> >> >> _______________________________________________ 
> >> >> blindkid mailing list 
> >> >> blindkid at nfbnet.org 
> >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindkid_nfbnet.org 
> >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
for 
> blindkid: 
> >> >> 
> 
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> 
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> org 
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > _______________________________________________ 
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> >> > 
> 
> 
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindkid_nfbnet.org/sparkaspirit%40yah 
> oo.com 
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> >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
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> 
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> org 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> _______________________________________________ 
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> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
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> >> 
> 
> 
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindkid_nfbnet.org/blindchildren%40ve 
> rizon.net 
> > _______________________________________________ 
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> > blindkid at nfbnet.org 
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindkid_nfbnet.org 
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
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> > 
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> 
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> 
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.com 
> 



-- 
--Penny 
---------- 
Adventures with Abby - visionfora.blogspot.com 
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------------------------------ 

Message: 4 
Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2011 13:32:22 -0400 
From: Richard Holloway <rholloway at gopbc.org> 
To: "NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List, \(for parents of blind children\)" 
<blindkid at nfbnet.org> 
Subject: Re: [blindkid] School Programs for 3 Year Old Student in 
Texas 
Message-ID: <C017AA88-3159-4B1F-8C46-E15B014CD32D at gopbc.org> 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii 

I probably should have added our original reason for trying the Montessori school for Kendra. We were trying for the personal level of care and support that many of us have come to expect from a private school setting-in-general and we thought we had better than average reasons to expect it-- 

I have mentioned Kendra's little brother in a number of posts. Kendra is 8 and he is 5. She also has a big sister who is now 17 (typically sighted). When Kendra was starting at the Montessori School, her big sister had already been at the school for something like 6 years (since around Kindergarten age) and we were very pleased with the school. We knew the people well and were very involved with the school. I was frequently at activities and often a driver on field trips with the kids and had even sung for a while with the school director in our church choir by chance-- this at our personal church (unrelated to the school in any way). 

The school prided itself (in Montessori tradition) with acceptance and tolerance. We had provided the school an abundance of information and support on matters of blindness through the several sources both local and through the NOPBC and NFB. I'm talking about extensive efforts on our part, starting a good year or more before we ever decided to move forward with Kendra actually going there. I would never have thought they would shift their behavior towards us or our child in a million years, but sure as the world something changed about a year into school there and we never learned what it was. We asked them point blank and never got an answer. It was a very strange business indeed. 

By the approach of the third year's start, they basically indicated that they supposed they would be willing to try again-- this with great reluctance and hesitation. We, as Erin suggests, felt much more that they should feel privileged to have her there. It was clearly time to move elsewhere. I still reflect good thoughts on year one but much of year two was a complete waste. 

Could a private setting work for others? Possibly. In fact, I suspect someone here has had a positive response with a longer term private setting, but I hear a lot of stories similar to ours with private attempts. I don't think these schools have any grasp of the amount of support and adaptation which will be required, and probably (at least in our case) having to call parents to the school with some frequency to put prosthetic eyes back in then they turn or fall out is a little off-putting as well. 

As parents. we deal with all of these little issues more or less second nature. And public schools deal with this (some well and some not so well) because they also have no choice. Ultimately though, a great many of us are going to be forced into a public school model because we will have little if any support for TVI and O&M resources after age 5 from most school systems. 

I should end this on a positive note-- that we remain very pleased overall with how things have gone in public school. After the two years in Montessori, Kendra has been in public school in the same county for what will be 4 years at the end of this school year and we plan to remain here for the foreseeable future. 

Richard 



On Apr 12, 2011, at 12:38 PM, Erin Teply wrote: 

> Hi Liz, 
> 
> I have recently gone through what you are about to go through. My son Max, now 5 with light perception only, is in Pre-K and at his second school. He started preschool at the age of 2 1/2 at a 'private yet contracted with the school district' school that was supposed to be ideal for special needs kids, definitely has the best reputation in the area for such. I gave it two years and wish I would have pulled him out earlier, for many reasons. One, it was purely chaotic. 18-20 kids in one classroom (and three teachers). The ratio was supposed to be 1/2 special needs and 1/2 role model kids. I think they did stick close to that ratio, but what I didn't do was look at what the other issues were--lots of autistic, behavioral issues and speech delayed kids. This resulted in two main issues - one, the teachers were really focused on 'calming down' the kids with behavioral issues and therefore did not spend enough time adapting things for Max, and two, putting blind children with autistic kids and speech delayed kids is not a great mix! Max needs kids that are not sensitive if they get run into and most of all, he needs kids to talk! Lots of our kids are probably ahead verbally and that is so important. 
> 
> For these reasons, I moved him to our home public school in an Early Education program. It's not a normal Pre-K class but it has turned out well for us. One, there are anywhere from 6-8 kids in the class to two teachers on most given days. It is quiet and calm, which I think these kids need to not be overwhelmed. The classroom is well organized and easy to get around. The daily routine is very routine and rarely gets off course. The teacher is acceptable (I'm just being honest). Her heart is in the right place and she does try to do what is best for Max, but he has his TVI and O&M instructor there almost every day for a while to help her with things. He has OT also twice a week with a fabulous person who really 'gets it' with Max. She goes out of her way to help Max experience things he wouldn't normally be offered at school. And, what I like also is that he is getting set for next year (he'll be mainstreamed kindergarten). He is the first and only blind student the school has ever had, so I like that the other kids are getting to know him and the other teachers. My Max is a pretty social guy and has made many friends at school...students and teachers alike. I will say that the mix of other kids is not ideal, but at least there are a few that he likes to play with and that are really good for him. He's getting to know his way around the school and that makes me a bit more comfortable for next year. And, most of all, the school year is coming to an end and he still tells me he 'likes school' :) So trust the feelings you get from your child as the days go on! Max did not seem as happy at the earlier school. 
> 
> I will also add that I have been down the private school path and still do wish that I could get our school to accept Max, but as Richard said, they cannot act as if they are doing you a favor. They should be privileged to have your child and if they don't see that, it's probably not a good fit! I have a 2nd grader at a private school and have kept him there as I feel it is right for him. I also have a 2 year old at a Montessori school and am not sure what direction I will go with her, but at least I have some time. So, while I drive a lot of hours each day to/from schools, I know they are all in the right places and I think that is important. I just thought I'd add this in case you have other children. It's not easy to accept they are at different schools, but again, they are at the right places. 
> 
> I am getting ready to now write my letter to the school for my requests for Max's placement next year. I'm not sure this is necessary, but I feel better if I know my opinions have been stated. And what I get from this list, is make sure our opinions are heard! 
> 
> Please feel free to call or email me with any questions! 
> 
> Best of luck!! Go with your gut and everything will be ok! 
> 
> -Erin 
> 
> 
> On Apr 11, 2011, at 11:27 PM, Richard Holloway wrote: 
> 
>> And Carol, if I might add-- with our daughter, at one point we were advised that the best choice would be a particular school in our county where they preferred to send all of the blind students her age, mainly because of the "resource room" available there. 
>> 
>> I could share many details, but save to say we went and saw two blind students our daughter's age in their classroom (her would-be classroom) and we didn't like what we saw. Things were really poorly adapted and managed and the short version of the story is there was no way our child was going to that school. (Long version on request-- just email me off list.) 
>> 
>> If there is any opportunity not only to learn how they think they would adapt and work with you, but also to see their plan for a similar child "in action", by all means, have a look. Ask questions-- take a list of them, and ask how they have dealt with this in the past or how they would adapt things now. 
>> 
>> We actually went and had tours of a number of schools in our area and asked them all a LOT of questions. After that, for our pre-first grade IEP, we had representatives from three or four different schools at the IEP, trying to persuade the committee why their school was most appropriate. It was a rather bizarre 4-hour-plus meeting, but the results were just what we wanted. 
>> 
>> Liz, I'm sure many here could direct you to (or help you freshly prepare) a list of things which you may want to explore in some detail when exploring your options if that might be helpful. 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Apr 11, 2011, at 10:43 PM, Carol Castellano wrote: 
>> 
>>> Hi Liz, 
>>> 
>>> Welcome to the list! 
>>> 
>>> One thing I would do is this--as you visit the various classrooms, see if you can picture your son in that room joining in activities and taking part in the school day. I found that helpful when we were looking at preschools for our daughter. 
>>> 
>>> Another factor to look at is what is emphasized in the classroom. For example, we saw rooms where the children were being taught to be be quiet and sit still. This would not have been right for our child who needed encouragement to move around and be curious and active. 
>>> 
>>> Expectations are important, as others have said. You--and the teachers--should expect your son to participate in all classroom activities. Teachers may need to learn how to adapt lessons and materials so that your son can be included in all activities throughout the school day. If he cannot do this independently yes, the team needs to think in terms of facilitating the development of age-appropriate independence. If he has serious delays or multiple disabilities, you can think of this as "stage-appropriate" independence. 
>>> 
>>> Hope this helps. 
>>> 
>>> Carol 
>>> 
>>> Carol Castellano 
>>> Director of Programs 
>>> National Organization of Parents of Blind Children 
>>> 973-377-0976 
>>> carol_castellano at verizon.net 
>>> www.nopbc.org 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> At 02:15 PM 4/11/2011, you wrote: 
>>>> Hi there, 
>>>> 
>>>> I just found this list and have already found so much helpful information! 
>>>> 
>>>> I wanted to see if anyone had feedback regarding school programs for a 3 
>>>> year old student either specifically in the Houston, Texas area, or just in 
>>>> general. 
>>>> 
>>>> We are looking at the options being offered by each school district in the 
>>>> area, as well as private school options with an Itinerant teacher. Just 
>>>> trying to figure out where to start! Our son is not quite 2, so we have 
>>>> some time, but wanted any suggestions you all had in terms of what is 
>>>> important to look for, as well as any specifics you might have in our area. 
>>>> 
>>>> Thanks so much! 
>>>> Liz 
>>>> _______________________________________________ 
>>>> blindkid mailing list 
>>>> blindkid at nfbnet.org 
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindkid_nfbnet.org 
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindkid: 
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindkid_nfbnet.org/blindchildren%40verizon.net 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________ 
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>>> blindkid at nfbnet.org 
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>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindkid: 
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindkid_nfbnet.org/rholloway%40gopbc.org 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________ 
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> 
> 
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------------------------------ 

Message: 5 
Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2011 10:38:04 -0700 (PDT) 
From: Doreen Franklin <doreenproverbs3 at bellsouth.net> 
To: jjordan_pa at yahoo.com, "NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List, \(for 
parents of blind children\)" <blindkid at nfbnet.org> 
Subject: Re: [blindkid] St Augustine School for the Blind 
Message-ID: <569386.415.qm at web180210.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 

We live in FL and are in the process of applying to FSDB for our 6-yr 
old/kindergarten daughter for next school year. I have?had outreach services 
thru them from 3-6?yrs old. We are planning a tour of FSDB for May also. 
Presently in our school district, she has an IEP which is not being implemented 
... she is being overhelped and not responsible for numerous "tools" ... she is 
the exception where she is. We are hoping that being "one of the kids" will 
definitely be a positive for her. When she has gone to the state and national 
conventions, she jumps right in and is able to do a "good" cane technique (at 
school, she doesn't even do a "technique") .... And if you do the "comparison" 
of reading rate/fluency and writing, she is well below the average for her 
peers. 


As an FYI ... they have a parent weekend the end of June to spend the weekend at 
the school to see what your child will be doing. Info?is on their website. 


Feel free to email me privately?... I have some more info that might help you 
also. 

?Doreen 




________________________________ 
From: janice <jjordan_pa at yahoo.com> 
To: "NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List, (for parents of blind children)" 
<blindkid at nfbnet.org> 
Sent: Tue, April 12, 2011 1:02:54 PM 
Subject: [blindkid] St Augustine School for the Blind 

Anyone out there familiar with the Florida School for the Blind? I am wanting to 
enroll my 10 yo daughter in a school for the blind and liked that they boast 75% 
of their students go on to higher education. I am willing to move to St 
Augustine or surrounding area.? 


Janice 
Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T 

-----Original Message----- 
From: "Marie" <empwrn at bellsouth.net> 
Sender: blindkid-bounces at nfbnet.org 
Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2011 11:31:05 
To: 'NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List,\(for parents of blind 
children\)'<blindkid at nfbnet.org> 
Reply-To: "NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List, 
??? \(for parents of blind children\)" <blindkid at nfbnet.org> 
Subject: Re: [blindkid] Stages of cane use? 

Funny but it is very reassuring to hear that other kiddos do this too. I 
guess with time they will adapt to this as they adapt to all other things. 
It sure is hard that we can't just make life smooth for them, right? But 
then what kind of people would they grow up to be? such a balancing act! 

Marie (mother of Jack, born May 2005) 
Check out our blog at http://www.allaccesspasstojack.blogspot.com for 
glimpses into our busy life with a boy who is busy growing and developing in 
his own way in his own time 


-----Original Message----- 
From: blindkid-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindkid-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
Behalf Of Penny Duffy 
Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2011 11:25 AM 
To: NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List, (for parents of blind children) 
Subject: Re: [blindkid] Stages of cane use? 

Marie.. 

I think as parents we want our kids to do mobility tools and techniques 
correctly. Its hard because we know how hard it is.? Kids sometimes have 
other ideas. LOL? My daughter has a lot of of her peripheral vision so at 
times I feel it gives her too much confidence and she will end up running 
into something.? Those times when my daughter has a lot of problems seeing 
her cane skills get a lot less lazy. 

On Tue, Apr 12, 2011 at 12:17 PM, Marie <empwrn at bellsouth.net> wrote: 

> Thanks everyone for your ideas and support. We're gonna try to keep it 
> light 
> and easy and not overly stress. The reason I asked if this was a phase is 
> he 
> previously did use the cane to find curbs and what not. His cane skills 
> seem 
> to vary with use and his visual abilities of the day....honestly, if it's 
> one of those days where we are amazed that he seems to see stuff that he 
> "should not" be able to see, it's going to be a frustrating cane day. It's 
> kind of ironic really... 
> 
> Thanks for the ideas. We are going to try games to keep him moving quickly 
> like everyone suggested and take some calculated fall/bump risks. Thanks 
> again! 
> 
> Marie (mother of Jack, born May 2005) 
> Check out our blog at http://www.allaccesspasstojack.blogspot.com for 
> glimpses into our busy life with a boy who is busy growing and developing 
> in 
> his own way in his own time 
> 
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: blindkid-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindkid-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
> Behalf Of Richard Holloway 
> Sent: Monday, April 11, 2011 10:01 PM 
> To: NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List, (for parents of blind children) 
> Subject: Re: [blindkid] Stages of cane use? 
> 
> Very true, and it still goes on from what I understand. I know that we met 
> with HEAVY resistance over our daughter's using an actual cane as opposed 
> to 
> a so-called "pre-cane-device" when working with a local center for the 
> blind. (This would have been about seven years ago-- mid 2004.) I thought 
> (and continue to think) very highly of that center which works with the 
> blind from newborns clear through to adults, but we absolutely went to WAR 
> over the cane issue. 
> 
> We were told what many people have heard: kids need to be able to 
> understand 
> the concept of using a cane before they try so they don't have to 
> "un-learn" 
> bad habits. I think that sounds rather convincing for about 5 or 10 
> seconds, 
> but then I take pause and realize that sighted kids don't "understand" 
> walking at first either. Who exactly tells parents of SIGHTED children to 
> stop them from trying to walk until THEY fully understand the concept? 
That 
> isn't how learning works in ANY early development concept of which I'm 
> aware, and I'm fully convinced it has nothing to do with walking with a 
> cane. Parents who are new to this situation (at least from what I recall) 
> may tend to think they are waiting for some professional-- (maybe a 
> doctor?) 
> to "prescribe" a cane. It doesn't work that way of corse, but how would 
> they 
> know? And it isn't like there is a white cane department at Wal-Mart. 
> Doctors rarely (if ever) are going to tell parents to go and get a white 
> cane for their child. Many vision centers, by-and-large, tend to delay 
> suggesting canes early on. Many O&M instructors in schools are slow to get 
> canes into young kids hands as well. I know of cases where they have also 
> brought canes for O&M lessons but taken them away between lessons to 
> control 
> the canes and insure they are being used (and learned about) properly. 
> 
> This is no exaggeration-- in our situation at the local center they 
> literally took every other parent in our daughter's class aside when she 
> was 
> around 18 months old and told them that they objected to use of a cane for 
> a 
> child so young as ours. They told these parents that they were supporting 
> our specific wishes AGAINST their better judgement. (Meanwhile my wife and 
> I 
> were distributing free NFB canes to all the other kids in the class we 
> could 
> behind the scenes, so to speak.) 
> 
> If any of you are not aware, "pre-cane-devices" are generally little PVC 
> trapezoids with the narrow end at the top (where it is held) and the wide 
> end at the bottom. Larger PVC rollers are typically added on the bottom 
> (big 
> pipe around small) and allegedly assist the walker with forward liner 
> motion. In fact, I'll agree they probably do that. Unfortunately, they 
also 
> are heavy and cumbersome. (Compare the weight to a fiberglass NFB cane I'd 
> estimate it is at least 10x the weight, probably more.) The devices 
> generally cause children to lean forward, creating posture issues, and 
> let's 
> face it, the last thing we need to do is encourage blind kids to look down 
> all the time, right? How many of us are constantly trying to get kids with 
> little or no vision to sit straight and keep their face looking forward 
(so 
> to speak). These devices prevent in-step motion with the hands which we 
all 
> need to develop. They occupy both hands as well and they are entirely 
> useless for navigating stairs, needing to be carried by an adult or 
hoisted 
> onto the child's shoulder as they attempt to traverse a staircase. I'd 
also 
> suggest they make a child stand out a lot more than a cane. There may be 
> cases where some small percentage of blind kids benefit from such devices, 
> but I don't believe there are many cases where children, at least children 
> with blindness as their sole impairment, need to use pre-cane-devices over 
> a 
> white cane. I say, if you feel you need something like that for a very 
> young 
> child, give them a push toy that is fun and age appropriate and can serve 
> the same purpose. If they can move about with a toy shopping cart in front 
> of them, they'll be ready for a cane soon enough instead. Besides, they 
can 
> explore with a cane when just standing or even sitting down as well. Very 
> early cane use is as much about extending a blind child's reach and world 
> as 
> it is about learning to walk effectively. 
> 
> "Old school" O&M practices would have the general public as well as the 
> blind population believe they know all the answers and there is some 
> "secret 
> formula" involved in teaching cane travel, especially to small children. I 
> have huge respect for many in the O&M profession, but the ones I respect 
> the 
> most are the ones who realize that since traditional O&M was developed as 
a 
> model for rehabilitation of previously sighted adults who had lost their 
> vision in World War II, some adaptations may be appropriate in the 
teaching 
> method needed for use with children, especially when they are very young 
> and 
> have had little if any vision ever.? (Not that I have a strong opinion on 
> the matter or anything like that, LOL...) 
> 
> 
> 
> On Apr 11, 2011, at 8:30 PM, Carol Castellano wrote: 
> 
> > Some historical perspective:? it wasn't that long ago that kids were not 
> even getting canes till they were 14 or 15 years old (there WERE no little 
> canes!).? (See 
> < 
> 
http://www.blind.net/alternative-techniques/mobility/cane-and-preschoolers- 
> the-eight-year-revolution.html> 
> http://www.blind.net/alternative-techniques/m 
> obility/cane-and-preschoolers-the-eight-year-revolution.html for some 
> history.) 
> > 
> > Virtually all of the adults you see walking with canes who are in their 
> 30s or older learned these techniques after they were 15 years old.? So 
> your little guys who have had canes in their hands since they could stand 
> up 
> are really ahead of the game.? I'm sure you've seen many extremely good 
> travelers who are older than 30.? If they can get that good even tho they 
> started late, just imagine how terrific your kids are going to be!!! 
> > 
> > Cheers, 
> > Carol 
> > 
> > Carol Castellano 
> > Director of Programs 
> > National Organization of Parents of Blind Children 
> > 973-377-0976 
> > carol_castellano at verizon.net 
> > www.nopbc.org 
> > 
> > At 03:40 PM 4/11/2011, you wrote: 
> >> Our phrase has become "get your good grip" (or "is that your good 
> grip?") 
> because that used to be the key issue-- not holding it correctly. Now she 
> actually may have her good grip, but she's either not going side-to-side 
> (fairly common for her), or using the "magical floating technique" with 
the 
> tip hovering just above curb height in front of her. Mentioning her grip 
> usually gets the fastest response. 
> >> 
> >> The other thing I keep working on is her remembering when to go to a 
> staff grip, like in close quarters with others, when standing in a line, 
or 
> at stairs. All I have to say now is "staff" if she forgets, and I think 
> that 
> is getting to be needed less often as well. 
> >> 
> >> There is a lot to remember and there are so many distractions for us 
all 
> when we're out and about-- it is no wonder it takes a while for all of 
this 
> to become automatic... 
> >> 
> >> Richard Holloway, Vice President 
> >> Georgia Organization of Parents of Blind Children 
> >> www.gopbc.org 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> On Apr 11, 2011, at 3:00 PM, Samantha Parker wrote: 
> >> 
> >> > I agree with "tough love" in a safe way!? My 6 year old doesn't use a 
> sweeping motion in front and wow...she misses things...all I have to say 
is 
> "Bev, that's why I tell you..." and she finishes with "sweep your cane." 
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > --- On Mon, 4/11/11, Richard Holloway <rholloway at gopbc.org> wrote: 
> >> > 
> >> > From: Richard Holloway <rholloway at gopbc.org> 
> >> > Subject: Re: [blindkid] Stages of cane use? 
> >> > To: "NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List, (for parents of blind children)" 
> <blindkid at nfbnet.org> 
> >> > Date: Monday, April 11, 2011, 11:08 AM 
> >> > 
> >> > Merry-Noel and Brandy both make good points. Our daughter spent a 
good 
> deal of time dragging the cane behind her for a while. No matter what, I'd 
> remind him that you're glad he has his cane with him because if he starts 
> leaving it or throwing it down then you have another battle to fight. 
> >> > 
> >> > When Kendra would fail to use her cane properly, apart from reminding 
> her over and over, I'd sometimes? let her walk into things, trip, and 
> sometimes even enhance the opportunity for her to have a minor crash. 
(That 
> may overstate, but I would not always give her any verbal warning of 
> something in her way for example.) Mind you, I was always poised and ready 
> to grab her when she was very little before a major crash or fall. It 
> sounds 
> a little mean, but far better to have a few trips and falls when we're 
> there 
> to help than for her than to figure someone will always be around to guide 
> her. Someday, we won't be there, and we know that. 
> >> > 
> >> > Ultimately, we could often make this into a funny discussion and 
avoid 
> any crashes up front-- "Your cane is telling you what's behind you-- you 
> already know where you've been. Don't you want to know what's in front of 
> you?"... That sort of thing. Kendra uses her cane very well now, but at 
> times she still "floats" her cane in the air and stops clearing her path 
> properly. Then I may remind her that her cane is just telling her what's 
in 
> the air in front of her-- not on the ground, but after that, I will let 
her 
> trip herself on a curb or stair if it is in a fairly safe place (no cars 
> nearby, nothing major to fall over if she stumbles). It is all sort of a 
> calculated risk in "tough love" trying to let her learn from small 
mistakes 
> to avoid huge ones later on. 
> >> > 
> >> > Richard 
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > On Apr 10, 2011, at 8:47 PM, Merry-Noel Chamberlain wrote: 
> >> > 
> >> >> 
> >> >> 
> >> >> 
> >> >> 
> >> >> 
> >> >> Marie, 
> >> >> Has Jack ever had O&M without using his eyes; aka using sleepshades? 
> Perhaps I would try that.? If wearing shades is difficult for him - locate 
> a 
> dark room (a room that has no windows) and shut off the lights.? Sometimes 
> I 
> use a school gym.? I will play games in the gym such as Red-light, 
> Green-Light with no light on.? We practice running in there, too.? This 
> builds some confidance in the cane.? Also, tell Jack he needs to hold his 
> head up when he walks because that is the proper posture.? By wearing 
> sleep-shades he learns the cane lets him know things such as curbs and 
> stairs.? Prase him (or the cane - smile) when you notice that his cane 
> found 
> something that his feet didn't find.? Walking faster helps quite a bit. 
> >> >> Merry-Noel 
> >> >> 
> >> >> --- On Sun, 4/10/11, Marie <empwrn at bellsouth.net> wrote: 
> >> >> 
> >> >> 
> >> >> From: Marie <empwrn at bellsouth.net> 
> >> >> Subject: [blindkid] Stages of cane use? 
> >> >> To: "Blindkid email" <blindkid at nfbnet.org> 
> >> >> Date: Sunday, April 10, 2011, 11:19 PM 
> >> >> 
> >> >> 
> >> >> I am getting very frustrated with Jack who is slowing down and using 
> his feet rather than maintaining his rhythm and using his cane to find 
> curbs/obstacles. Yet he insists on carrying his cane. Is this just a 
phase? 
> Tips anyone? 
> >> >> 
> >> >> 
> >> >> Marie (mother of Jack, born May 2005) 
> >> >> Check out our blog at http://www.allaccesspasstojack.blogspot.comfor 
> glimpses into our busy life with a boy who is busy growing and developing 
> in 
> his own way in his own time 
> >> >> 
> >> >> _______________________________________________ 
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> >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
for 
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> >> >> 
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> >> >> _______________________________________________ 
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> org 
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > _______________________________________________ 
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> oo.com 
> >> > _______________________________________________ 
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> >> 
> >> 
> >> _______________________________________________ 
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> rizon.net 
> > _______________________________________________ 
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> _______________________________________________ 
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> 



-- 
--Penny 
---------- 
Adventures with Abby - visionfora.blogspot.com 
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------------------------------ 

Message: 6 
Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2011 14:32:41 -0400 
From: Richard Holloway <rholloway at gopbc.org> 
To: "NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List, \(for parents of blind children\)" 
<blindkid at nfbnet.org> 
Subject: Re: [blindkid] St Augustine School for the Blind 
Message-ID: <CF0C1364-25E7-4232-ABD8-AD75961CD9DD at gopbc.org> 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii 

At least in Georgia, we have found all the schools we have asked are also quite willing to allow tours of the schools on request with just a bit of advanced notice. If possible, I'd try to get a look at what goes on in a typical day as well as what they choose to showcase in more of an "open house" sort of forum like a parent weekend. (Hopefully the two will give a very similar impression...) 


On Apr 12, 2011, at 1:38 PM, Doreen Franklin wrote: 

> We live in FL and are in the process of applying to FSDB for our 6-yr 
> old/kindergarten daughter for next school year. I have had outreach services 
> thru them from 3-6 yrs old. We are planning a tour of FSDB for May also. 
> Presently in our school district, she has an IEP which is not being implemented 
> ... she is being overhelped and not responsible for numerous "tools" ... she is 
> the exception where she is. We are hoping that being "one of the kids" will 
> definitely be a positive for her. When she has gone to the state and national 
> conventions, she jumps right in and is able to do a "good" cane technique (at 
> school, she doesn't even do a "technique") .... And if you do the "comparison" 
> of reading rate/fluency and writing, she is well below the average for her 
> peers. 
> 
> 
> As an FYI ... they have a parent weekend the end of June to spend the weekend at 
> the school to see what your child will be doing. Info is on their website. 
> 
> 
> Feel free to email me privately ... I have some more info that might help you 
> also. 
> 
> Doreen 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ________________________________ 
> From: janice <jjordan_pa at yahoo.com> 
> To: "NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List, (for parents of blind children)" 
> <blindkid at nfbnet.org> 
> Sent: Tue, April 12, 2011 1:02:54 PM 
> Subject: [blindkid] St Augustine School for the Blind 
> 
> Anyone out there familiar with the Florida School for the Blind? I am wanting to 
> enroll my 10 yo daughter in a school for the blind and liked that they boast 75% 
> of their students go on to higher education. I am willing to move to St 
> Augustine or surrounding area. 
> 
> 
> Janice 
> Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T 
> 
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: "Marie" <empwrn at bellsouth.net> 
> Sender: blindkid-bounces at nfbnet.org 
> Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2011 11:31:05 
> To: 'NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List,\(for parents of blind 
> children\)'<blindkid at nfbnet.org> 
> Reply-To: "NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List, 
> \(for parents of blind children\)" <blindkid at nfbnet.org> 
> Subject: Re: [blindkid] Stages of cane use? 
> 
> Funny but it is very reassuring to hear that other kiddos do this too. I 
> guess with time they will adapt to this as they adapt to all other things. 
> It sure is hard that we can't just make life smooth for them, right? But 
> then what kind of people would they grow up to be? such a balancing act! 
> 
> Marie (mother of Jack, born May 2005) 
> Check out our blog at http://www.allaccesspasstojack.blogspot.com for 
> glimpses into our busy life with a boy who is busy growing and developing in 
> his own way in his own time 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: blindkid-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindkid-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
> Behalf Of Penny Duffy 
> Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2011 11:25 AM 
> To: NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List, (for parents of blind children) 
> Subject: Re: [blindkid] Stages of cane use? 
> 
> Marie.. 
> 
> I think as parents we want our kids to do mobility tools and techniques 
> correctly. Its hard because we know how hard it is. Kids sometimes have 
> other ideas. LOL My daughter has a lot of of her peripheral vision so at 
> times I feel it gives her too much confidence and she will end up running 
> into something. Those times when my daughter has a lot of problems seeing 
> her cane skills get a lot less lazy. 
> 
> On Tue, Apr 12, 2011 at 12:17 PM, Marie <empwrn at bellsouth.net> wrote: 
> 
>> Thanks everyone for your ideas and support. We're gonna try to keep it 
>> light 
>> and easy and not overly stress. The reason I asked if this was a phase is 
>> he 
>> previously did use the cane to find curbs and what not. His cane skills 
>> seem 
>> to vary with use and his visual abilities of the day....honestly, if it's 
>> one of those days where we are amazed that he seems to see stuff that he 
>> "should not" be able to see, it's going to be a frustrating cane day. It's 
>> kind of ironic really... 
>> 
>> Thanks for the ideas. We are going to try games to keep him moving quickly 
>> like everyone suggested and take some calculated fall/bump risks. Thanks 
>> again! 
>> 
>> Marie (mother of Jack, born May 2005) 
>> Check out our blog at http://www.allaccesspasstojack.blogspot.com for 
>> glimpses into our busy life with a boy who is busy growing and developing 
>> in 
>> his own way in his own time 
>> 
>> -----Original Message----- 
>> From: blindkid-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindkid-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
>> Behalf Of Richard Holloway 
>> Sent: Monday, April 11, 2011 10:01 PM 
>> To: NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List, (for parents of blind children) 
>> Subject: Re: [blindkid] Stages of cane use? 
>> 
>> Very true, and it still goes on from what I understand. I know that we met 
>> with HEAVY resistance over our daughter's using an actual cane as opposed 
>> to 
>> a so-called "pre-cane-device" when working with a local center for the 
>> blind. (This would have been about seven years ago-- mid 2004.) I thought 
>> (and continue to think) very highly of that center which works with the 
>> blind from newborns clear through to adults, but we absolutely went to WAR 
>> over the cane issue. 
>> 
>> We were told what many people have heard: kids need to be able to 
>> understand 
>> the concept of using a cane before they try so they don't have to 
>> "un-learn" 
>> bad habits. I think that sounds rather convincing for about 5 or 10 
>> seconds, 
>> but then I take pause and realize that sighted kids don't "understand" 
>> walking at first either. Who exactly tells parents of SIGHTED children to 
>> stop them from trying to walk until THEY fully understand the concept? 
> That 
>> isn't how learning works in ANY early development concept of which I'm 
>> aware, and I'm fully convinced 

[Message truncated] 




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