[blindkid] blindkid Digest, Vol 87, Issue 27
Maureen Austen
mkausten at gmail.com
Mon Aug 1 15:36:22 UTC 2011
Hi, I recently came across this low vision aid for reading sheet music. I
suggested it to my son who thought it sounded worth investigating:
www.dancingdots.com//limelighter/limelightermain.htm
Maureen Austen
On Sat, Jul 30, 2011 at 12:32 AM, <blindkid-request at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> Send blindkid mailing list submissions to
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> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of blindkid digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: interesting article (Carol Castellano)
> 2. Re: Print Music (Moses Whitaker Jr)
> 3. US Dept of Justice's & US Dept of Education's New Accessible
> Technology Guidelines (DrV)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2011 13:40:49 -0400
> From: Carol Castellano <carol.joyce.castellano at gmail.com>
> To: "NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List, \(for parents of blind children\)"
> <blindkid at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [blindkid] interesting article
> Message-ID: <4e32f0a4.a9b3340a.7df7.0815 at mx.google.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
>
> Hi Heidi,
>
> Glad you posted this article. Our family heard about ONCE at an NFB
> convention way back when. In 2002, we took a family trip to Spain
> and visited their incredible museum in Madrid.
>
> There they had beautifully crafted scale models of Spain's most
> famous buildings and in another room, the famous buildings and
> monuments of the world, such as the Leaning Tower of Pisa and the
> Eiffel Tower. My personal favorite was the Roman Aqueduct of
> Segovia, Spain, which was set in a giant diarama showing the start
> of the aqueduct up in the hills and following it all the way down to
> the city. Truly incredible.
>
> Our daughter Serena was in heaven because they also had audio, which
> she could listen to in Spanish (she loves languages), and a guide in
> Spanish braille that she could take home. So she ended up with her
> own tour book of all the places we were going to visit. It was just
> terrific. We advise, if anyone is going to Spain, to go directly to
> this museum from the airport and then on to the rest of your
> trip. That way your blind child will have as good an introduction to
> the touring you will do as the rest of the family. We had a most
> wonderful time.
>
> Carol
>
>
> At 02:05 PM 7/11/2011, you wrote:
>
> >I found this article very interesting, thought I share.
> >
> >
> >
> >Heidi
> >
> >
> >http://articles.latimes.com/2000/jul/02/news/mn-46882
> >_______________________________________________
> >blindkid mailing list
> >blindkid at nfbnet.org
> >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindkid_nfbnet.org
> >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> >for blindkid:
> >
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindkid_nfbnet.org/carol.joyce.castellano%40gmail.com
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2011 14:35:29 -0400
> From: Moses Whitaker Jr <mwhitakerj at hotmail.com>
> To: blind Kids Request NFB <blindkid at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [blindkid] Print Music
> Message-ID: <COL111-W388AFEFCC1E24120E46640D7370 at phx.gbl>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252"
>
>
> Hi Holly,Contact Dr. Dalia Sakas (Coordinator of the Comprehensive Music
> Program for Young People), at The Filomen M. D?Agostino Greenberg Music
> School at Lighthouse International. It's one of the schools Matthew attends
> every Saturday. They teach blind/visually impaired students music. I'm
> sure she can help...tell her that we asked you to call her. They are very
> good people. Dalia's # is 212-821-9368
> > From: blindkid-request at nfbnet.org
> > Subject: blindkid Digest, Vol 87, Issue 26
> > To: blindkid at nfbnet.org
> > Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2011 12:00:15 -0500
> >
> > Send blindkid mailing list submissions to
> > blindkid at nfbnet.org
> >
> > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindkid_nfbnet.org
> > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> > blindkid-request at nfbnet.org
> >
> > You can reach the person managing the list at
> > blindkid-owner at nfbnet.org
> >
> > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> > than "Re: Contents of blindkid digest..."
> >
> >
> > Today's Topics:
> >
> > 1. Re: how do you teach a child to say yes? (Barbara Hammel)
> > 2. Re: Large Print music (Doreen Franklin)
> > 3. Re: Large Print music (Holly Baker Miller)
> > 4. Re: Large Print music (Kayleigh Joiner)
> > 5. Re: Large Print music (Doreen Frappier)
> > 6. Re: art class: Danger! (insert irony here) (Joy Orton)
> > 7. Re: art class: Danger! (insert irony here) (Dr. S. Merchant)
> > 8. Re: art class: Danger! (insert irony here) (Penny Duffy)
> > 9. Re: "Its not safe...." (Debbie Gabe)
> > 10. Re: Independence Check Lists (Debbie Gabe)
> > 11. Re: Independence Check Lists (DrV)
> > 12. Re: Independence Check Lists (Debbie Gabe)
> >
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 1
> > Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2011 12:07:17 -0500
> > From: "Barbara Hammel" <poetlori8 at msn.com>
> > To: <rholloway at gopbc.org>, "NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List, \(for
> > parents of blind children\)" <blindkid at nfbnet.org>
> > Subject: Re: [blindkid] how do you teach a child to say yes?
> > Message-ID: <SNT139-ds642E3F4A2514AEC989D0BEB340 at phx.gbl>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="utf-8";
> > reply-type=original
> >
> > Yeah, I'm familiar with the term. Twins are 9 and on the autism
> spectrum.
> > Barbara
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Let every nation know whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay
> > any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose
> > any foe, in order to assure the survival and the success of
> liberty.--John
> > F. Kennedy
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: rholloway at gopbc.org
> > Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2011 9:51 PM
> > To: NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List,(for parents of blind children)
> > Subject: Re: [blindkid] how do you teach a child to say yes?
> >
> > Sounds like something called "echolalia" which is really common with
> blind
> > kids. Before you begin to worry about some new diagnosis, it is a
> behavior
> > that is generally outgrown.
> >
> > My best guess is it happens so much with blind kids because they may be
> > getting words very clearly, but attaching the words to actual physical
> > things and concepts comes more slowly, especially at first, because it
> takes
> > time to fill in the gaps caused by missing visual information as compared
> to
> > the knowledge base and timeline for typically sighted kids.
> >
> > If you're not familiar with it, definitely google that term and see if it
> > sounds familiar. Again, no need to panic over this one, it happens a lot.
> > Sent on the Sprint? Now Network from my BlackBerry?
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: "Barbara Hammel" <poetlori8 at msn.com>
> > Sender: blindkid-bounces at nfbnet.org
> > Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2011 21:21:28
> > To: <blindkid at nfbnet.org>
> > Reply-To: "NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List,
> > \(for parents of blind children\)" <blindkid at nfbnet.org>
> > Subject: [blindkid] how do you teach a child to say yes?
> >
> > Our semiverbal twin has ?no thank you please? down pat. He uses it very
> > appropriately but if he wants the thing we?re asking him about he?ll just
> > repeat the name of the thing.
> > I?m just wondering if anyone has ideas about how to choose between yes
> and
> > no. For example ?do you want a beef stick?? The inferred choices are
> yes
> > and no but he doesn?t know what to do with that kind of question. So
> far, I?ve
> > asked if he wants something and if he repeats it, I tell him we?re going
> to
> > try again and I want you to say yes. I repeat the question and say the y
> > sound to prompt him before he has a chance to think of copying the
> requested
> > item?s name.
> > I forgot the name of those books that nonverbal people use that has all
> the
> > pictures of things and if you choose say the hurt picture, you?d turn to
> the
> > correct page to point out a body part. He needs to know how to say yes
> or
> > no to be able to do the book with his teachers.
> > Would you say I?m on the right track, or do you have other tips for
> teaching
> > this skill?
> > Barbara
> >
> > Let every nation know whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay
> > any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose
> > any foe, in order to assure the survival and the success of
> liberty.--John
> > F. Kennedy
> > _______________________________________________
> > blindkid mailing list
> > blindkid at nfbnet.org
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindkid_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > blindkid:
> >
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindkid_nfbnet.org/rholloway%40gopbc.org
> > _______________________________________________
> > blindkid mailing list
> > blindkid at nfbnet.org
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindkid_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > blindkid:
> >
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindkid_nfbnet.org/poetlori8%40msn.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 2
> > Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2011 10:08:16 -0700 (PDT)
> > From: Doreen Franklin <doreenproverbs3 at bellsouth.net>
> > To: "NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List, \(for parents of blind children\)"
> > <blindkid at nfbnet.org>
> > Subject: Re: [blindkid] Large Print music
> > Message-ID:
> > <1311872896.64493.YahooMailRC at web180202.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
> >
> > Holly
> > just thought of something .... collect your own data .... take a video
> camera
> > into?Hanks next lesson and tape how he is reading/straining to see?...
> you know
> > ... then after the lesson?- while teacher is still there, have teacher
> come over
> > and ask Hank "how do you think you did ... how was the music on the stand
> -
> > could you see it easily, what can "I" as teacher?do to help you?" -- kind
> of
> > another way to build your case .... that way, it's not PROMPTED from MOM
> but
> > from the teacher. Don't tell?Hank about questions so that he is answering
> off
> > the cuff .... just some random thoughts to help.
> >
> >
> > I would start to video tape EVERYTHING and download to?cds that can be
> "given"
> > to whoever ... another way to collect your data and document everything!
> >
> >
> > Let me know how it goes ....
> > ?Doreen
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: Holly Baker Miller <hollym12 at gmail.com>
> > To: "NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List, (for parents of blind children)"
> > <blindkid at nfbnet.org>
> > Sent: Thu, July 28, 2011 11:37:21 AM
> > Subject: [blindkid] Large Print music
> >
> > We have a budding drummer on our hands and are running into sheet music
> > issues.
> > Hank (going into 5th) normally needs 20-ish point font when he reads and
> > will hold that 6-8 inches from his face to read.? The music teacher made
> > enlarged copies of the pages onto 11x17 paper, laminated it to give it
> some
> > body and put a spiral binding at the top.? Problem is once it's on a
> music
> > stand it's too far for him to see and I think the lamination is creating
> > glare that doesn't help the situation. Add to that it's a photo copy so
> not
> > the greatest contrast.
> > Today I watched his lesson and he was leaning way over the drum and
> > squinting hard just to see some very basic beats.
> >
> > Any thoughts on how to better format sheet music for him?? I'm thinking
> > maybe landscape pages would be easier to put on a music stand but copying
> > from the book puts it in portrait.? Can large print blank music sheets be
> > bought or printed somewhere?? I'm wondering if I can bribe my older
> drummer
> > son to hand transcribe the music with a 20/20 marker to get bolder print.
> > I have zero musical talent myself so all of this is confusing to begin
> with!
> >
> > Braille is not an option at this point unfortunately as we are still in
> > dispute with the district about him learning/using braille (long story,
> we
> > do have a lawyer)
> >
> > Thanks!
> > Holly
> >
> > --
> > We are raising funds for the National Federation of the Blind
> > http://www.raceforindependence.org/goto/hankspage
> > _______________________________________________
> > blindkid mailing list
> > blindkid at nfbnet.org
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindkid_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindkid:
> >
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindkid_nfbnet.org/doreenproverbs3%40bellsouth.net
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 3
> > Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2011 15:08:11 -0400
> > From: Holly Baker Miller <hollym12 at gmail.com>
> > To: "NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List, (for parents of blind children)"
> > <blindkid at nfbnet.org>
> > Subject: Re: [blindkid] Large Print music
> > Message-ID:
> > <CA+Xp9po14bscAK=Z+6iBtODQMrJYVgncfi9wbhAh=
> i46r0iztg at mail.gmail.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
> >
> > I appreciate the thought but unfortunately today was the last day of
> lessons
> > until school start, it was just a short summer intro.
> >
> > To be fair, the music teacher is great and she wants to be helpful, she
> just
> > doesn't know a better way to do things. I'm sure she'll be receptive to
> any
> > ideas I can come up with :-)
> >
> > Holly
> >
> > On Thu, Jul 28, 2011 at 1:08 PM, Doreen Franklin <
> > doreenproverbs3 at bellsouth.net> wrote:
> >
> > > Holly
> > > just thought of something .... collect your own data .... take a video
> > > camera
> > > into Hanks next lesson and tape how he is reading/straining to see ...
> you
> > > know
> > > ... then after the lesson - while teacher is still there, have teacher
> come
> > > over
> > > and ask Hank "how do you think you did ... how was the music on the
> stand -
> > > could you see it easily, what can "I" as teacher do to help you " --
> kind
> > > of
> > > another way to build your case .... that way, it's not PROMPTED from
> MOM
> > > but
> > > from the teacher. Don't tell Hank about questions so that he is
> answering
> > > off
> > > the cuff .... just some random thoughts to help.
> > >
> > >
> > > I would start to video tape EVERYTHING and download to cds that can be
> > > "given"
> > > to whoever ... another way to collect your data and document
> everything!
> > >
> > >
> > > Let me know how it goes ....
> > > Doreen
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > > From: Holly Baker Miller <hollym12 at gmail.com>
> > > To: "NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List, (for parents of blind children)"
> > > <blindkid at nfbnet.org>
> > > Sent: Thu, July 28, 2011 11:37:21 AM
> > > Subject: [blindkid] Large Print music
> > >
> > > We have a budding drummer on our hands and are running into sheet music
> > > issues.
> > > Hank (going into 5th) normally needs 20-ish point font when he reads
> and
> > > will hold that 6-8 inches from his face to read. The music teacher
> made
> > > enlarged copies of the pages onto 11x17 paper, laminated it to give it
> some
> > > body and put a spiral binding at the top. Problem is once it's on a
> music
> > > stand it's too far for him to see and I think the lamination is
> creating
> > > glare that doesn't help the situation. Add to that it's a photo copy so
> not
> > > the greatest contrast.
> > > Today I watched his lesson and he was leaning way over the drum and
> > > squinting hard just to see some very basic beats.
> > >
> > > Any thoughts on how to better format sheet music for him? I'm thinking
> > > maybe landscape pages would be easier to put on a music stand but
> copying
> > > from the book puts it in portrait. Can large print blank music sheets
> be
> > > bought or printed somewhere? I'm wondering if I can bribe my older
> drummer
> > > son to hand transcribe the music with a 20/20 marker to get bolder
> print.
> > > I have zero musical talent myself so all of this is confusing to begin
> > > with!
> > >
> > > Braille is not an option at this point unfortunately as we are still in
> > > dispute with the district about him learning/using braille (long story,
> we
> > > do have a lawyer)
> > >
> > > Thanks!
> > > Holly
> > >
> > > --
> > > We are raising funds for the National Federation of the Blind
> > > http://www.raceforindependence.org/goto/hankspage
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > blindkid mailing list
> > > blindkid at nfbnet.org
> > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindkid_nfbnet.org
> > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > > blindkid:
> > >
> > >
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindkid_nfbnet.org/doreenproverbs3%40bellsouth.net
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > blindkid mailing list
> > > blindkid at nfbnet.org
> > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindkid_nfbnet.org
> > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > > blindkid:
> > >
> > >
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindkid_nfbnet.org/hollym12%40gmail.com
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > We are raising funds for the National Federation of the Blind
> > http://www.raceforindependence.org/goto/hankspage
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 4
> > Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2011 14:10:41 -0500
> > From: Kayleigh Joiner <kayleigh281 at yahoo.com>
> > To: "NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List, (for parents of blind children)"
> > <blindkid at nfbnet.org>
> > Subject: Re: [blindkid] Large Print music
> > Message-ID:
> > <CAAQMvFAC7ECbKdukEoThfQ9rZCQz+=
> KQnCXtKzebRMSb-Dih0Q at mail.gmail.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
> >
> > Here is the link to a product called Lime Lighter that Dancing Dots just
> > came out with.
> http://www.dancingdots.com//limelighter/limelightermain.htm
> > This might be able to help.
> > Kayleigh
> >
> > On Thu, Jul 28, 2011 at 12:08 PM, Doreen Franklin <
> > doreenproverbs3 at bellsouth.net> wrote:
> >
> > > Holly
> > > just thought of something .... collect your own data .... take a video
> > > camera
> > > into Hanks next lesson and tape how he is reading/straining to see ...
> you
> > > know
> > > ... then after the lesson - while teacher is still there, have teacher
> come
> > > over
> > > and ask Hank "how do you think you did ... how was the music on the
> stand -
> > > could you see it easily, what can "I" as teacher do to help you " --
> kind
> > > of
> > > another way to build your case .... that way, it's not PROMPTED from
> MOM
> > > but
> > > from the teacher. Don't tell Hank about questions so that he is
> answering
> > > off
> > > the cuff .... just some random thoughts to help.
> > >
> > >
> > > I would start to video tape EVERYTHING and download to cds that can be
> > > "given"
> > > to whoever ... another way to collect your data and document
> everything!
> > >
> > >
> > > Let me know how it goes ....
> > > Doreen
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > > From: Holly Baker Miller <hollym12 at gmail.com>
> > > To: "NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List, (for parents of blind children)"
> > > <blindkid at nfbnet.org>
> > > Sent: Thu, July 28, 2011 11:37:21 AM
> > > Subject: [blindkid] Large Print music
> > >
> > > We have a budding drummer on our hands and are running into sheet music
> > > issues.
> > > Hank (going into 5th) normally needs 20-ish point font when he reads
> and
> > > will hold that 6-8 inches from his face to read. The music teacher
> made
> > > enlarged copies of the pages onto 11x17 paper, laminated it to give it
> some
> > > body and put a spiral binding at the top. Problem is once it's on a
> music
> > > stand it's too far for him to see and I think the lamination is
> creating
> > > glare that doesn't help the situation. Add to that it's a photo copy so
> not
> > > the greatest contrast.
> > > Today I watched his lesson and he was leaning way over the drum and
> > > squinting hard just to see some very basic beats.
> > >
> > > Any thoughts on how to better format sheet music for him? I'm thinking
> > > maybe landscape pages would be easier to put on a music stand but
> copying
> > > from the book puts it in portrait. Can large print blank music sheets
> be
> > > bought or printed somewhere? I'm wondering if I can bribe my older
> drummer
> > > son to hand transcribe the music with a 20/20 marker to get bolder
> print.
> > > I have zero musical talent myself so all of this is confusing to begin
> > > with!
> > >
> > > Braille is not an option at this point unfortunately as we are still in
> > > dispute with the district about him learning/using braille (long story,
> we
> > > do have a lawyer)
> > >
> > > Thanks!
> > > Holly
> > >
> > > --
> > > We are raising funds for the National Federation of the Blind
> > > http://www.raceforindependence.org/goto/hankspage
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > blindkid mailing list
> > > blindkid at nfbnet.org
> > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindkid_nfbnet.org
> > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > > blindkid:
> > >
> > >
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindkid_nfbnet.org/doreenproverbs3%40bellsouth.net
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > blindkid mailing list
> > > blindkid at nfbnet.org
> > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindkid_nfbnet.org
> > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > > blindkid:
> > >
> > >
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindkid_nfbnet.org/kayleigh281%40yahoo.com
> > >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 5
> > Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2011 12:21:41 -0700 (PDT)
> > From: Doreen Frappier <dcfrappier at yahoo.com>
> > To: " \(for parents of blind children\)NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List"
> > <blindkid at nfbnet.org>
> > Subject: Re: [blindkid] Large Print music
> > Message-ID:
> > <1311880901.97844.YahooMailClassic at web35603.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
> >
> > Hi Holly,
> > My VI twins took sax and clarinet in school. They had their music books
> printed in large print through American Printing House for the Blind????
> http://www.aph.org/
> > The VI teacher had the books enlarged just like any other school book.
> The pages are in landscape on 8.5 x 14 in paper. The books are spiral bound.
> One is taking guitar lessons right now, not associated with the school. I
> spoke with the state rehabilitation services for the blind and they had the
> lesson book printed free of charge. It took a little while to get this done,
> so I scanned the first few pages into the computer, and then enlarged the
> print. Then I printed that landscape style onto the paper.? Hope this helps.
> >
> > The other Doreen
> >
> > --- On Thu, 7/28/11, Holly Baker Miller <hollym12 at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > From: Holly Baker Miller <hollym12 at gmail.com>
> > Subject: [blindkid] Large Print music
> > To: "NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List, (for parents of blind children)" <
> blindkid at nfbnet.org>
> > Date: Thursday, July 28, 2011, 10:37 AM
> >
> > We have a budding drummer on our hands and are running into sheet music
> > issues.
> > Hank (going into 5th) normally needs 20-ish point font when he reads and
> > will hold that 6-8 inches from his face to read.? The music teacher made
> > enlarged copies of the pages onto 11x17 paper, laminated it to give it
> some
> > body and put a spiral binding at the top.? Problem is once it's on a
> music
> > stand it's too far for him to see and I think the lamination is creating
> > glare that doesn't help the situation. Add to that it's a photo copy so
> not
> > the greatest contrast.
> > Today I watched his lesson and he was leaning way over the drum and
> > squinting hard just to see some very basic beats.
> >
> > Any thoughts on how to better format sheet music for him?? I'm thinking
> > maybe landscape pages would be easier to put on a music stand but copying
> > from the book puts it in portrait.? Can large print blank music sheets be
> > bought or printed somewhere?? I'm wondering if I can bribe my older
> drummer
> > son to hand transcribe the music with a 20/20 marker to get bolder print.
> > I have zero musical talent myself so all of this is confusing to begin
> with!
> >
> > Braille is not an option at this point unfortunately as we are still in
> > dispute with the district about him learning/using braille (long story,
> we
> > do have a lawyer)
> >
> > Thanks!
> > Holly
> >
> > --
> > We are raising funds for the National Federation of the Blind
> > http://www.raceforindependence.org/goto/hankspage
> > _______________________________________________
> > blindkid mailing list
> > blindkid at nfbnet.org
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindkid_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindkid:
> >
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindkid_nfbnet.org/dcfrappier%40yahoo.com
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 6
> > Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2011 14:48:33 -0500
> > From: Joy Orton <ortonsmom at gmail.com>
> > To: blindkid at nfbnet.org
> > Subject: Re: [blindkid] art class: Danger! (insert irony here)
> > Message-ID:
> > <
> CANYJZ-d6QPQUELFcqRUTB4PhaAMk7YyKKpe+KabMCgfd908kgA at mail.gmail.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
> >
> > Dear Penny,
> > Ouch! It does hurt our hearts as parents when someone makes such a
> > broad statement, denying access for our children!
> >
> > One response would be to write a letter to the park director,
> > outlining the facts of your interaction with the artist-in-residence.
> > (If you are still emotional, try letting the letter sit for a couple
> > of days before you send it.) Put it on paper, not email, if you can,
> > and hand-write the address on the envelope. Possibly it would be more
> > likely to be read. Notice I said outlining the facts. Facts are, I
> > said this, she said that, I felt this. More facts you can include are
> > "the law says this."
> >
> > You might want to take it as just a note to the park director, telling
> > him or her that you KNOW that it is not park policy to discriminate
> > against people with disabilities, and so you just KNOW that the artist
> > in residence was not aware or informed of the policy. This is an
> > opportunity for the director to train his staff about dealing with all
> > kinds of people, eh?
> >
> > It sounds like the person you talked to didn't even know how to sign
> > up for the class or whether it was full or empty, so try to realize
> > that she was just as uninformed about the appropriate audience for the
> > class. Art class is dangerous? Really? Also try to keep your sense of
> > humor. I know, easier said than done.
> >
> > Good job on not making it an issue on a day that was supposed to be
> > about your son.
> >
> > Hope this helps.
> >
> > Joy
> >
> >
> > Penny wrote:
> > I really don't feel this artist was projecting official national park
> policy
> > but she is still an employee of the park so she should have just not said
> > anything. ...
> >
> > I feel I should say something. I just don't know what is a proper
> response
> > and what is me over reacting.
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 7
> > Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2011 17:19:53 -0500
> > From: "Dr. S. Merchant" <smerchant at vetmed.lsu.edu>
> > To: "'NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List, \(for parents of blind
> > children\)'" <blindkid at nfbnet.org>
> > Subject: Re: [blindkid] art class: Danger! (insert irony here)
> > Message-ID: <00df01cc4d74$79766890$6c6339b0$@lsu.edu>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> >
> > Just to add to the misinformed bordering on ridiculous things that people
> > say about the blind, we visited Epcot while at the national Convention
> this
> > year. My 18 year old 6 foot 2 inch blind son and my family went to the
> > entrance of an exhibit. It was one that had a tunnel or walkway to walk
> > through and wait in until the main area was reached. A female employee
> at
> > the entrance to this exhibit said that it would be better to use the side
> > handicapped entrance because the tunnel/walkway was DARK and may be
> trouble
> > for Michael to navigate. Really???? We all had a good laugh
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: blindkid-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindkid-bounces at nfbnet.org]
> On
> > Behalf Of Joy Orton
> > Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2011 2:49 PM
> > To: blindkid at nfbnet.org
> > Subject: Re: [blindkid] art class: Danger! (insert irony here)
> >
> > Dear Penny,
> > Ouch! It does hurt our hearts as parents when someone makes such a
> > broad statement, denying access for our children!
> >
> > One response would be to write a letter to the park director,
> > outlining the facts of your interaction with the artist-in-residence.
> > (If you are still emotional, try letting the letter sit for a couple
> > of days before you send it.) Put it on paper, not email, if you can,
> > and hand-write the address on the envelope. Possibly it would be more
> > likely to be read. Notice I said outlining the facts. Facts are, I
> > said this, she said that, I felt this. More facts you can include are
> > "the law says this."
> >
> > You might want to take it as just a note to the park director, telling
> > him or her that you KNOW that it is not park policy to discriminate
> > against people with disabilities, and so you just KNOW that the artist
> > in residence was not aware or informed of the policy. This is an
> > opportunity for the director to train his staff about dealing with all
> > kinds of people, eh?
> >
> > It sounds like the person you talked to didn't even know how to sign
> > up for the class or whether it was full or empty, so try to realize
> > that she was just as uninformed about the appropriate audience for the
> > class. Art class is dangerous? Really? Also try to keep your sense of
> > humor. I know, easier said than done.
> >
> > Good job on not making it an issue on a day that was supposed to be
> > about your son.
> >
> > Hope this helps.
> >
> > Joy
> >
> >
> > Penny wrote:
> > I really don't feel this artist was projecting official national park
> policy
> > but she is still an employee of the park so she should have just not said
> > anything. ...
> >
> > I feel I should say something. I just don't know what is a proper
> response
> > and what is me over reacting.
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > blindkid mailing list
> > blindkid at nfbnet.org
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindkid_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > blindkid:
> >
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindkid_nfbnet.org/smerchant%40vetmed
> > .lsu.edu
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 8
> > Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2011 22:03:44 -0400
> > From: Penny Duffy <pennyduffy at gmail.com>
> > To: "NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List, (for parents of blind children)"
> > <blindkid at nfbnet.org>
> > Subject: Re: [blindkid] art class: Danger! (insert irony here)
> > Message-ID:
> > <CABb_=QfJ=c=NfOUJj3-R14=NBK_PM=
> tAw0cnhO-on-iYF36+rg at mail.gmail.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
> >
> > Ok Joy you rename of my subject is making me giggle so much. I like your
> > idea about a letter. I wonder if I should cc someone higher up in the
> > National Park service then just the park its self. I think sometimes
> being
> > reminded about issues is never a bad thing.
> >
> > I walked out of the studio and I had this horrible horrible knot in my
> > gut. I am so glad I remember to talk with Sam about it. After we talked
> in
> > the car he asked me about an hour later "I don't understand why she said
> > Abby couldn't take that class" That mean he thought about it and he saw
> it
> > as wrong and in the end of the day that is an important lesson.
> >
> > I am a pretty reasonable person.
> >
> > If anyone is wondering we visited Saint-Gaudens Historic Site Its really
> > a beautiful historic place about an artist that many people don't know
> > anymore. I was reading the accessibility section and they will let
> > blind/VI visitor touch some of the artwork with special gloves. We are
> > thinking about going back with Abby on Sunday and it would offer
> > an interesting thing to share her actual experience at the Park.
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Jul 28, 2011 at 3:48 PM, Joy Orton <ortonsmom at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Dear Penny,
> > > Ouch! It does hurt our hearts as parents when someone makes such a
> > > broad statement, denying access for our children!
> > >
> > > One response would be to write a letter to the park director,
> > > outlining the facts of your interaction with the artist-in-residence.
> > > (If you are still emotional, try letting the letter sit for a couple
> > > of days before you send it.) Put it on paper, not email, if you can,
> > > and hand-write the address on the envelope. Possibly it would be more
> > > likely to be read. Notice I said outlining the facts. Facts are, I
> > > said this, she said that, I felt this. More facts you can include are
> > > "the law says this."
> > >
> > > You might want to take it as just a note to the park director, telling
> > > him or her that you KNOW that it is not park policy to discriminate
> > > against people with disabilities, and so you just KNOW that the artist
> > > in residence was not aware or informed of the policy. This is an
> > > opportunity for the director to train his staff about dealing with all
> > > kinds of people, eh?
> > >
> > > It sounds like the person you talked to didn't even know how to sign
> > > up for the class or whether it was full or empty, so try to realize
> > > that she was just as uninformed about the appropriate audience for the
> > > class. Art class is dangerous? Really? Also try to keep your sense of
> > > humor. I know, easier said than done.
> > >
> > > Good job on not making it an issue on a day that was supposed to be
> > > about your son.
> > >
> > > Hope this helps.
> > >
> > > Joy
> > >
> > >
> > > Penny wrote:
> > > I really don't feel this artist was projecting official national park
> > > policy
> > > but she is still an employee of the park so she should have just not
> said
> > > anything. ...
> > >
> > > I feel I should say something. I just don't know what is a proper
> response
> > > and what is me over reacting.
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > blindkid mailing list
> > > blindkid at nfbnet.org
> > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindkid_nfbnet.org
> > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > > blindkid:
> > >
> > >
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindkid_nfbnet.org/pennyduffy%40gmail.com
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > --Penny
> > ----------
> > Adventures with Abby - visionfora.blogspot.com
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 9
> > Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2011 20:04:11 -0700
> > From: "Debbie Gabe" <gabe808 at hawaiiantel.net>
> > To: "'NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List, \(for parents of blind
> > children\)'" <blindkid at nfbnet.org>
> > Subject: Re: [blindkid] "Its not safe...."
> > Message-ID: <002a01cc4d9c$31e267e0$95a737a0$@net>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> >
> > Unfortunately, many sighted people do not understand anything about
> > blindness, other than their own fears.
> > The word "safety" andfolks. "liability" usually come up in classes such
> as
> > this, job applications, volunteer work, etc, for us blind people.
> > My suggestion is, depending on the age of your daughter, is to discuss
> the
> > situation and ask her what did she think about that and what could you or
> > she do the next time she runs into this problem. She needs to become
> aware
> > of thse prejudices early and start learning how to handle them with class
> > and dignity yet still be assertive. Because I guarantee it will happen
> again
> > and again hundreds of times during her life, as it has happened to all of
> us
> > blind
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: blindkid-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindkid-bounces at nfbnet.org]
> On
> > Behalf Of Penny Duffy
> > Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2011 7:26 AM
> > To: NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List, (for parents of blind children)
> > Subject: [blindkid] "Its not safe...."
> >
> > I posted this on the wrong list serv (blind talk) last night oops LOL.
> Here
> > is my original message. I wanted to follow up and say the reason I even
> > threw in there and mentioned Abby's blindness was I was I saw the class
> as
> > great way for her to non-visually learn something. I was more sharing
> > my excitement not asking permission. I think that is what made the
> > whole situation so upsetting. I realize these things will happen again
> I
> > just wasn't prepared for it to happen yesterday for that activity or
> > prepared for it to happen to us.
> >
> >
> > ------
> >
> >
> > I am still very upset over this but I want to know what a good response
> > would be.
> >
> > Today I had a wonderful visit to an historic site that is part of the
> > National Park service with my son Sam. My daughter Abby who is blind is
> > away this week at the Perkins School. There was an artist in residence
> > there. She was a little odd but i heard her mention that they where
> having
> > a class there for children . the children would make casts of their
> hands.
> > It seemed like a great activity for Abby.
> >
> > The artist didn't know if there was space or if they where even having
> the
> > class (due to no enrollment) really she didn't know anything (there is a
> > number you call to make reservations) When I mentioned my daughter who
> is
> > blind would really love to go to this class she told me she would NOT
> > recommend it. That it was unsafe for blind person and said but your son
> is
> > welcome to take part if there is space and its sill going on. I should
> have
> > responded right away I should have went right to visitor center and
> > complained. I was shocked. I am still shocked. The only reason I didn't
> > talk to someone there is the day was about my son Sam and having an "Abby
> > Free" day. That and honestly I was so taken back by what happened. I
> spoke
> > with Sam in the car so he understood that what was said was WRONG.
> >
> > I really don't feel this artist was projecting official national park
> policy
> > but she is still an employee of the park so she should have just not said
> > anything. I would never have mentioned Abby's blindness when making
> > reservations because I would have seen it has irrelevant. If its safe
> for a
> > sighted child 6 to 11 then it would be safe to a blind child 6 to 11. We
> are
> > talking about an art class not driving a car over a single lane bridge
> over
> > glass.
> >
> > We are not really interested in the class anymore (we have a lot of stuff
> > going on) I am just really upset over comments by this artist. I have
> never
> > had any one say Abby couldn't do anything. I know there was people who
> > thought that but no one ever pretty much implied "Your child is not
> welcome"
> > Mind you I am only been dealing with Abby being blind for a year.
> >
> > I feel I should say something. I just don't know what is a proper
> response
> > and what is me over reacting.
> >
> > --
> > --Penny
> > ----------
> > Adventures with Abby - visionfora.blogspot.com
> > _______________________________________________
> > blindkid mailing list
> > blindkid at nfbnet.org
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindkid_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > blindkid:
> >
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindkid_nfbnet.org/gabe808%40hawaiian
> > tel.net
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 10
> > Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2011 20:31:35 -0700
> > From: "Debbie Gabe" <gabe808 at hawaiiantel.net>
> > To: "'NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List, \(for parents of blind
> > children\)'" <blindkid at nfbnet.org>
> > Subject: Re: [blindkid] Independence Check Lists
> > Message-ID: <002b01cc4da0$054a8e20$0fdfaa60$@net>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
> >
> > Well, these are the million dollar questions.....
> >
> > I would begin with the basics. I don't know how old your child is or what
> he or she can and cannot do, but....
> > Just thinking back to when my kids were in school, there were always kids
> from the class who went to the office to deliver things, counted the lunch
> money, delivered messages to the library or school nurse, etc. So if your
> kid needs help with mobility, I would expect him/her to be included in the
> rotation to take on any and all classroom chores, as any other kid would do.
> > If he's learning about money and food, he should learn how to count
> money, about decimals, identifying coins, how to fold money, how to shop
> with customer service, the layout of most grocery stores, etc. Don't let the
> teacher teach him how to use wallets with a bunch of different zippered
> pockets. Make sure he learns how to fold his currency. So it all depends on
> what his curriculum is. ADL and mobility skills can be fitted in in a lot of
> places in different subjects.
> > A trip to the grocery store includes mobility, money, math, percentages
> for sale prices, use of talking calculators, , besides nutrition,
> classifying fruits, vegetables, etc., learning to read nutrition labels,
> math again (percentage of calories from fat, etc), cchemical names of
> ingredients or vitamins and minerals, geography (where is the food grown,
> packaged, bottled, etc), ecology (how did the food get to your store, how
> long did it have to travel, how did it travel, what kind of energy was used
> to transport it, what kind of carbon "footprint" does it leave).
> >
> > And whatever lessons were being done at school, I would try to do them at
> home as well. I think a lot of ADL tasks can be taught just as part of
> living. If school is working on math at the store, take the kid with you and
> talk about figuring out costs with the 20% off sale or how much you saved at
> the market when you used your store awards card, what percentage does that
> equal, or what is the family budget for groceries for the week and did you
> make it or overspend, and what happens when you overspend or have money left
> over for the week? Let him ask for customer service for help shopping for,
> at first, just one or two items, and then increase the number. Have him help
> you unpack the groceries at home, identify them, put them away, discuss what
> they will be used for in what recipes, which foods support goodhealth and
> which are special treat items, which are grown locally and which are
> imported, etc. Is there a nearby store you can walk to so he can get used
> to that, as well as carrying packages home after shopping? Does he know how
> to listen for parallel and perpendicular traffic at street corners and
> listening to the flow of traffic as the lights change?
> >
> > This is where a good blind mentor might be able to help you.
> >
> > Don't know if any of that helps.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > I appreciate your enthusiasm & passion, & also agree with much of what
> you
> > say, but as far as ADLs, what would you suggest adding to a child's IEP
> > that would actually accomplish something of significance?
> > How would you phrase goals?
> > Young adults may catch on quickly, but many kids require lots of practice
> > & repetition to really master ADLs independently.
> > Beyond the "lack of time" issue that I hear oh too often in TVI forums,
> > the unspoken, but very real reality is that many, likely most, VI
> teachers
> > don't have the experience and training to teach ADLs any better than a
> > parent. They also don't have the experience and training to explain to a
> > parent how to teach these activities at home. ADLs are a huge deficiency
> > gap in their training.
> > Respectfully,
> > Eric V
> >
> >
> > On 7/25/11 8:29 PM, "Debbie Gabe" <gabe808 at hawaiiantel.net> wrote:
> >
> > >Hi,
> > >I work with your kids when they get out of high school. I am a personal
> > >and
> > >home management instructor at an adult blind orientation center in
> > >Honolulu.
> > >And I'm also partially blind myself.
> > >
> > >I hope that no one takes what I will say the wrong way. But my primary
> > >concern is for the blind kid. My center is built on the belief that
> > >blindness can be reduced to a mere inconvenience with the proper
> training,
> > >and we have high expectations for all of our students. We encourage them
> > >to
> > >problem solve as often as possible in all sorts of situations. We
> > >encourage
> > >them to strive for independence and self confidence. So what I have to
> say
> > >comes from those thoughts and intentions, not to put anyone down.
> Because
> > >I
> > >am also a parent, and I know how hard raising kids is.
> > >
> > >It's really a struggle for those kids who grew up blind and have been
> > >overprotected. They often do not know how to explore. And moving their
> > >bodies to explore a countertop or cabinet or floor is really crucial to
> > >learning how to sweep, clean, wipe counters, mop, look for items in a
> > >closet
> > >or cabinet or refrigerator, clean a stove, etc, etc. It's even crucial
> > >when
> > >trying to teach them how to stir fry, saut?, turn over hamburgers they
> > >have
> > >placed on a grill, scrambling eggs, ironing.
> > >
> > >Please, please let them, teach them how to explore, encourage them to
> > >move,
> > >let them try anything their sighted peers or siblings would try (within
> > >reason, of course, like not driving). Encourage them, no expect them,
> to
> > >do
> > >their chores (or face the consequences), to help out around the house,
> > >setting the table, clearning the table, cleaning dishes, scrubbing the
> > >toilet and tub, loading and starting the washer. Teach them how to label
> > >their clothes so they can separate their own clothes for laundry loads.
> > >They
> > >will need to know how to do this when they go off to college anyway.
> Let
> > >them help you in the kitchen: chopping, using real chef knives even,
> > >stirring, frying, baking, grilling, lighting birthday cake candles. Yes,
> > >there are ways to do these things safely. If you are worried about
> fires,
> > >teach them simple first aid and by all means, please teach them how to
> > >use a
> > >fire extinguisher and let them find out where your are. Speaking of
> that,
> > >teach them how to change the batteries in the smoke alarms and how to
> > >check
> > >the batteries once a month. Let them help you mark the microwave and
> oven
> > >controls, washer and dryer controls, iron controls, etc so that they can
> > >use
> > >these independently after learning how.
> > >
> > >Believe me, you are hindering your child by not allowing and expecting
> > >him/her to learn how to do these simple household/family activities.
> > >And if you just don't know how to teach some of these things, or don't
> > >have
> > >the time, ask to have some of these things put on their IEPs. I have had
> > >several school teachers of the blind contact me for suggestions and
> > >tip-sharing for teaching these activities.
> > >But the most important thing to teach is how to be inquisitive and to
> > >explore anything and everything!
> > >
> > >Sorry to go on so long, but I had to add my 2 cents.
> > >Good luck to you all.
> > >Debbie
> > >
> > >-----Original Message-----
> > >From: blindkid-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindkid-bounces at nfbnet.org]
> On
> > >Behalf Of Bonnie Lucas
> > >Sent: Monday, July 25, 2011 4:09 PM
> > >To: 'NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List, (for parents of blind children)'
> > >Subject: Re: [blindkid] Independence Check Lists
> > >
> > >That is so cool. I know he won't regret learning these things while he
> is
> > >young. He will be able to truly fit in with his peers.
> > >Bonnie
> > >
> > >-----Original Message-----
> > >From: DrV [mailto:icdx at earthlink.net]
> > >Sent: Monday, July 25, 2011 6:40 AM
> > >To: NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List, (for parents of blind children)
> > >Subject: [blindkid] Independence Check Lists
> > >
> > >Hi All,
> > >I'm sure most, if not all, of the parents on this listserv can relate to
> > >the
> > >sentiment of "there is just not enough time to teach my son or daughter
> > >everything". While I don't have "the answer", I wanted to share an
> > >approach
> > >that seems to be working out well for us.
> > >As my older son is about to start his freshman year at high school, I
> keep
> > >asking myself "Where has all the time gone? How could it possibly have
> > >slipped by so quickly?" In 4 short years collage tuition will be due.
> > >It is also becoming increasingly clear that there is still a lot to
> cover
> > >on
> > >the non-academic side in order for him (& us) to feel comfortable with
> him
> > >living & getting around on his own, potentially in a new city. There is
> > >shopping, laundry, & a host of other stuff he will need to be able to do
> > >on
> > >his own.
> > >My older son really wants be ready on a social level for high school.
> > >Those
> > >that know him are quite aware he is very talkative & social, but it is
> all
> > >the other skills that need work (independent mobility, organization,
> more
> > >advanced technology awareness, more appropriate table manners &
> > >independence
> > >so he can confidently, comfortably go out to eat & party with friends,
> > >maintain a neat room & bathroom for when friends come over, etc). There
> > >is a
> > >lot that still needs to be covered - these are things that for many
> blind
> > >kids end up not really getting covered to a truly adequate degree at
> > >school.
> > >I'm sure some of you have heard of the "Expanded Core Curriculum for
> Blind
> > >and VI Children and Youths" ? it?s supposed to be part of every IEP? As
> > >someone who is slowly becoming a more seasoned veteran (as a parent), I
> > >hope
> > >no one is holding his or her breath for the educational system to
> address
> > >everything.
> > >For years we have been approaching this is in "baby steps" you might
> say;
> > >we
> > >sit down several times a year & list out a finite number of things that
> we
> > >want to specifically address with our boys for the next few months (the
> > >number varies with what is on the list). If we don't go through that
> > >process, then the time just seems to slip by without really actively
> > >addressing all but the most pressing issues. In recent years we have had
> > >the
> > >boys contribute their wishes to that process ? figuring everyone has
> > >different priorities & because they will likely put more effort into
> what
> > >they perceive to be most important. We try to when possible make it fun
> ?
> > >walking to the local minimart to buy a Sunday newspaper involves O&M as
> > >well
> > >as manipulation of money (& it is amazing what comes up on conversation
> > >during those walks where we are not focused on other things). Some
> things
> > >turn in to expected chores ? the list gradually expands over time. It is
> > >never too early to start. Some things like learning to zip a vest or
> > >organize a backpack or tie shoes just have to be barreled through. &
> yes,
> > >we
> > >too can relate to toothpaste challenges.
> > >This summer my younger son is out of town with my wife due to his recent
> > >eye
> > >surgery; the older one is too old for the Buddy Program & not old enough
> > >for
> > >the next level up. Since he is motivated & this is an important
> transition
> > >year before high school, we decide to make the most of this summer & our
> > >focus is to tackle a longer list of things to address.
> > >At the beginning of the summer I asked my older son to generate a list
> of
> > >things he wanted to & he felt he needed work on. I asked him to think
> big
> > >&
> > >to be ambitious. That he did!
> > >We were pleasantly surprised to get his list ? much of what was on there
> > >were things that my wife & I too felt needed to be addressed, but
> > >importantly, it is his list. We sat down & categorized the items on the
> > >list
> > >& are working through those. He is now downloading books on his own,
> > >working
> > >on his laptop skills (getting a handle on iTunes & Bookshare are both
> > >motivating & empowering). He has been making his own breakfast everyday,
> > >working on other meals, & even cleaning off the table. (He did share
> with
> > >me
> > >that he is now consciously trying to eat neater, so that there is less
> to
> > >wipe off the table - & it has been totally clean even before he wiped it
> > >off
> > >a number of times now). ?Kitchen O&M? is a great experience & he now is
> > >beginning to realize how much effort is takes to prepare for meals (with
> > >my
> > >wife out of town, he & I have to go buy everything as well). He has
> really
> > >taken ownership for his list & is enthusiastically pursuing things that
> my
> > >otherwise have been taxing.
> > >An unanticipated "side-effect" of being apart for a few weeks is that
> when
> > >the boys talk to each other on the phone, they each are somewhat envious
> > >of
> > >what the other is doing or learning & now are asking to try things on
> the
> > >other is working on! :-)
> > >We still have about a month to go before the start of the upcoming
> school
> > >year. Both boys will have accomplished & learned a lot of skills by that
> > >time. We are making nice progress through the list, taking on items on
> as
> > >seems most natural throughout the course of this summer. They will have
> > >mastered some, but not all. We will however at least address each item
> > >more
> > >than just superficially - to a level that will be their solid foundation
> > >for
> > >this next year when they can follow through & practice until they reach
> > >proficiency.
> > >Honestly, the sense of pride & confidence that emanates from each of
> them
> > >the first time they do the task totally on their own is precious. It is
> > >very
> > >gratifying to see how with time & further practice they refine each new
> > >skill until it becomes commonplace. What once provoked anxiety or unease
> > >has
> > >been transformed into their routine. They actually seem to enjoy coming
> up
> > >with goals to work on.
> > >It?s never too early to start working on things in a more focused
> fashion.
> > >Time flies by oh so fast?
> > >Eric V
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >_______________________________________________
> > >blindkid mailing list
> > >blindkid at nfbnet.org
> > >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindkid_nfbnet.org
> > >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > >blindkid:
> > >
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindkid_nfbnet.org/gabe808%40hawaii
> > >an
> > >tel.net
> > >
> > >
> > >_______________________________________________
> > >blindkid mailing list
> > >blindkid at nfbnet.org
> > >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindkid_nfbnet.org
> > >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > >blindkid:
> > >
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindkid_nfbnet.org/icdx%40earthlink
> > >.net
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > blindkid mailing list
> > blindkid at nfbnet.org
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindkid_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindkid:
> >
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> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 11
> > Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2011 22:34:53 -0700
> > From: DrV <icdx at earthlink.net>
> > To: "NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List, (for parents of blind children)"
> > <blindkid at nfbnet.org>
> > Subject: Re: [blindkid] Independence Check Lists
> > Message-ID: <CA578528.6BB9%icdx at earthlink.net>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
> >
> > Hi Debbie,
> > Thanks for elaborating & for the thoughtful response. It is great to have
> > you as a resource.
> > I agree that those are important things to think about & to learn.
> > Perhaps our definitions of what constitutes ADLs (activities of daily
> > living) differs a bit.
> > While learning is certainly intertwined, & while mobility is critical for
> > independence, my understanding is that in the ECC, ADLs are separated out
> > from O&M.
> > The Expanded Core Curriculum is broken down into 9 categories
> > (
> www.afb.org/Section.asp?SectionID=44&TopicID=189&SubTopicID=4&DocumentID=2
> > 117):
> > My opinion of the ECC & who really addresses the components hasn't
> changed
> > much over time.
> > Here's my take on this:
> > 1. Compensatory or functional academic skills, including communication
> > modes -> something that the whole IEP Team works on.
> > 2. Orientation and mobility -> Hopefully O&M Instructor addresses this,
> > though by the time many students graduate they still don t really have
> the
> > independent travel skills they need. Too often the childhood O&M
> > instructors don't cover all that needs to be covered to be truly
> > independent & essentially pass the buck to rehab. The educational systems
> > largely overlooks the reality that many kids will have traveled in far
> > more environments & will have covered many more miles with their parents
> > than with a formally trained O&M instructor.
> > 3. Social interaction skills -> Addressed be parents & hopefully by the
> > school.
> > 4. Independent living skills -> I still am of the belief that the bulk of
> > this rests on the parents & summer programs like the Buddy Program (If
> > this were appropriately addressed, fewer young adults would need to take
> > 6-9 months or so off work on these skills in post-high school programs).
> > In the school setting an OT is probably better trained to address these
> > skills than the average VI teacher.
> > 5. Recreation and leisure skills -> This one is mostly the up to the
> > parents.
> > 6. Career education -> Parents & rehab.
> > 7. Use of assistive technology -> TVI though often only because of the
> > persistence of the parents - unfortunately many TVIs struggle with
> > technology, especially the newer stuff, but often even the basics.
> > 8. Sensory efficiency skills (unless one includes echolocation as part of
> > this skill set, short of a hearing aide or special magnification devises,
> > I'm not clear to me how often or formally this one is addressed)
> > 9. Self-determination -> This one is again mostly the parents & youth
> > programs like those put on by the NFB that both role model & foster this.
> > Obviously the buy-in & attitude of the student is critical, for they are
> > the most important component, but the reality is that most TVIs don't
> > really have the time or experience to cover all the components of the
> ECC.
> > Given the current caseloads & the limited time: 45-60 minutes with a TVI
> 2
> > or 3 times a week, or even daily & 45-90 minutes with an O&M instructor a
> > week, it is no great surprise that this is not adequately covered. Beyond
> > that, many (perhaps most) General Ed administrators & teachers have never
> > heard of the ECC.
> > A number of the components of The Expanded Core Curriculum are covered
> > indirectly & superficially, if at all, by the formal IEP process & the
> ECC
> > is rarely covered with the same vigor & level of high expectations as the
> > General Education Curriculum.
> >
> >
> > I couldn't agree with you more that the input of good blind mentors &
> > blind peers are an amazing asset for a blind child & their families -
> > unfortunately I don't know of many IEP teams that actively incorporate or
> > encourage blind mentors.
> > I wish things were different, but such is my perspective.
> > Eric
> >
> > On 7/28/11 8:31 PM, "Debbie Gabe" <gabe808 at hawaiiantel.net> wrote:
> >
> > >Well, these are the million dollar questions.....
> > >
> > >I would begin with the basics. I don't know how old your child is or
> what
> > >he or she can and cannot do, but....
> > >Just thinking back to when my kids were in school, there were always
> kids
> > >from the class who went to the office to deliver things, counted the
> > >lunch money, delivered messages to the library or school nurse, etc. So
> > >if your kid needs help with mobility, I would expect him/her to be
> > >included in the rotation to take on any and all classroom chores, as any
> > >other kid would do.
> > >If he's learning about money and food, he should learn how to count
> > >money, about decimals, identifying coins, how to fold money, how to shop
> > >with customer service, the layout of most grocery stores, etc. Don't let
> > >the teacher teach him how to use wallets with a bunch of different
> > >zippered pockets. Make sure he learns how to fold his currency. So it
> all
> > >depends on what his curriculum is. ADL and mobility skills can be fitted
> > >in in a lot of places in different subjects.
> > >A trip to the grocery store includes mobility, money, math, percentages
> > >for sale prices, use of talking calculators, , besides nutrition,
> > >classifying fruits, vegetables, etc., learning to read nutrition labels,
> > >math again (percentage of calories from fat, etc), cchemical names of
> > >ingredients or vitamins and minerals, geography (where is the food
> grown,
> > >packaged, bottled, etc), ecology (how did the food get to your store,
> how
> > >long did it have to travel, how did it travel, what kind of energy was
> > >used to transport it, what kind of carbon "footprint" does it leave).
> > >
> > >And whatever lessons were being done at school, I would try to do them
> at
> > >home as well. I think a lot of ADL tasks can be taught just as part of
> > >living. If school is working on math at the store, take the kid with you
> > >and talk about figuring out costs with the 20% off sale or how much you
> > >saved at the market when you used your store awards card, what
> percentage
> > >does that equal, or what is the family budget for groceries for the week
> > >and did you make it or overspend, and what happens when you overspend or
> > >have money left over for the week? Let him ask for customer service for
> > >help shopping for, at first, just one or two items, and then increase
> the
> > >number. Have him help you unpack the groceries at home, identify them,
> > >put them away, discuss what they will be used for in what recipes, which
> > >foods support goodhealth and which are special treat items, which are
> > >grown locally and which are imported, etc. Is there a nearby store you
> > >can walk to so he can get used to that, as well as carrying packages
> home
> > >after shopping? Does he know how to listen for parallel and
> perpendicular
> > >traffic at street corners and listening to the flow of traffic as the
> > >lights change?
> > >
> > >This is where a good blind mentor might be able to help you.
> > >
> > >Don't know if any of that helps.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >I appreciate your enthusiasm & passion, & also agree with much of what
> you
> > >say, but as far as ADLs, what would you suggest adding to a child's IEP
> > >that would actually accomplish something of significance?
> > >How would you phrase goals?
> > >Young adults may catch on quickly, but many kids require lots of
> practice
> > >& repetition to really master ADLs independently.
> > >Beyond the "lack of time" issue that I hear oh too often in TVI forums,
> > >the unspoken, but very real reality is that many, likely most, VI
> teachers
> > >don't have the experience and training to teach ADLs any better than a
> > >parent. They also don't have the experience and training to explain to a
> > >parent how to teach these activities at home. ADLs are a huge deficiency
> > >gap in their training.
> > >Respectfully,
> > >Eric V
> > >
> > >
> > >On 7/25/11 8:29 PM, "Debbie Gabe" <gabe808 at hawaiiantel.net> wrote:
> > >
> > >>Hi,
> > >>I work with your kids when they get out of high school. I am a personal
> > >>and
> > >>home management instructor at an adult blind orientation center in
> > >>Honolulu.
> > >>And I'm also partially blind myself.
> > >>
> > >>I hope that no one takes what I will say the wrong way. But my primary
> > >>concern is for the blind kid. My center is built on the belief that
> > >>blindness can be reduced to a mere inconvenience with the proper
> > >>training,
> > >>and we have high expectations for all of our students. We encourage
> them
> > >>to
> > >>problem solve as often as possible in all sorts of situations. We
> > >>encourage
> > >>them to strive for independence and self confidence. So what I have to
> > >>say
> > >>comes from those thoughts and intentions, not to put anyone down.
> Because
> > >>I
> > >>am also a parent, and I know how hard raising kids is.
> > >>
> > >>It's really a struggle for those kids who grew up blind and have been
> > >>overprotected. They often do not know how to explore. And moving their
> > >>bodies to explore a countertop or cabinet or floor is really crucial to
> > >>learning how to sweep, clean, wipe counters, mop, look for items in a
> > >>closet
> > >>or cabinet or refrigerator, clean a stove, etc, etc. It's even crucial
> > >>when
> > >>trying to teach them how to stir fry, saut?, turn over hamburgers they
> > >>have
> > >>placed on a grill, scrambling eggs, ironing.
> > >>
> > >>Please, please let them, teach them how to explore, encourage them to
> > >>move,
> > >>let them try anything their sighted peers or siblings would try (within
> > >>reason, of course, like not driving). Encourage them, no expect them,
> to
> > >>do
> > >>their chores (or face the consequences), to help out around the house,
> > >>setting the table, clearning the table, cleaning dishes, scrubbing the
> > >>toilet and tub, loading and starting the washer. Teach them how to
> label
> > >>their clothes so they can separate their own clothes for laundry loads.
> > >>They
> > >>will need to know how to do this when they go off to college anyway.
> Let
> > >>them help you in the kitchen: chopping, using real chef knives even,
> > >>stirring, frying, baking, grilling, lighting birthday cake candles.
> Yes,
> > >>there are ways to do these things safely. If you are worried about
> fires,
> > >>teach them simple first aid and by all means, please teach them how to
> > >>use a
> > >>fire extinguisher and let them find out where your are. Speaking of
> that,
> > >>teach them how to change the batteries in the smoke alarms and how to
> > >>check
> > >>the batteries once a month. Let them help you mark the microwave and
> > >>oven
> > >>controls, washer and dryer controls, iron controls, etc so that they
> can
> > >>use
> > >>these independently after learning how.
> > >>
> > >>Believe me, you are hindering your child by not allowing and expecting
> > >>him/her to learn how to do these simple household/family activities.
> > >>And if you just don't know how to teach some of these things, or don't
> > >>have
> > >>the time, ask to have some of these things put on their IEPs. I have
> had
> > >>several school teachers of the blind contact me for suggestions and
> > >>tip-sharing for teaching these activities.
> > >>But the most important thing to teach is how to be inquisitive and to
> > >>explore anything and everything!
> > >>
> > >>Sorry to go on so long, but I had to add my 2 cents.
> > >>Good luck to you all.
> > >>Debbie
> > >>
> > >>-----Original Message-----
> > >>From: blindkid-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindkid-bounces at nfbnet.org]
> On
> > >>Behalf Of Bonnie Lucas
> > >>Sent: Monday, July 25, 2011 4:09 PM
> > >>To: 'NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List, (for parents of blind children)'
> > >>Subject: Re: [blindkid] Independence Check Lists
> > >>
> > >>That is so cool. I know he won't regret learning these things while he
> is
> > >>young. He will be able to truly fit in with his peers.
> > >>Bonnie
> > >>
> > >>-----Original Message-----
> > >>From: DrV [mailto:icdx at earthlink.net]
> > >>Sent: Monday, July 25, 2011 6:40 AM
> > >>To: NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List, (for parents of blind children)
> > >>Subject: [blindkid] Independence Check Lists
> > >>
> > >>Hi All,
> > >>I'm sure most, if not all, of the parents on this listserv can relate
> to
> > >>the
> > >>sentiment of "there is just not enough time to teach my son or daughter
> > >>everything". While I don't have "the answer", I wanted to share an
> > >>approach
> > >>that seems to be working out well for us.
> > >>As my older son is about to start his freshman year at high school, I
> > >>keep
> > >>asking myself "Where has all the time gone? How could it possibly have
> > >>slipped by so quickly?" In 4 short years collage tuition will be due.
> > >>It is also becoming increasingly clear that there is still a lot to
> cover
> > >>on
> > >>the non-academic side in order for him (& us) to feel comfortable with
> > >>him
> > >>living & getting around on his own, potentially in a new city. There is
> > >>shopping, laundry, & a host of other stuff he will need to be able to
> do
> > >>on
> > >>his own.
> > >>My older son really wants be ready on a social level for high school.
> > >>Those
> > >>that know him are quite aware he is very talkative & social, but it is
> > >>all
> > >>the other skills that need work (independent mobility, organization,
> more
> > >>advanced technology awareness, more appropriate table manners &
> > >>independence
> > >>so he can confidently, comfortably go out to eat & party with friends,
> > >>maintain a neat room & bathroom for when friends come over, etc). There
> > >>is a
> > >>lot that still needs to be covered - these are things that for many
> blind
> > >>kids end up not really getting covered to a truly adequate degree at
> > >>school.
> > >>I'm sure some of you have heard of the "Expanded Core Curriculum for
> > >>Blind
> > >>and VI Children and Youths" ? it?s supposed to be part of every IEP? As
> > >>someone who is slowly becoming a more seasoned veteran (as a parent), I
> > >>hope
> > >>no one is holding his or her breath for the educational system to
> address
> > >>everything.
> > >>For years we have been approaching this is in "baby steps" you might
> say;
> > >>we
> > >>sit down several times a year & list out a finite number of things that
> > >>we
> > >>want to specifically address with our boys for the next few months (the
> > >>number varies with what is on the list). If we don't go through that
> > >>process, then the time just seems to slip by without really actively
> > >>addressing all but the most pressing issues. In recent years we have
> had
> > >>the
> > >>boys contribute their wishes to that process ? figuring everyone has
> > >>different priorities & because they will likely put more effort into
> what
> > >>they perceive to be most important. We try to when possible make it fun
> ?
> > >>walking to the local minimart to buy a Sunday newspaper involves O&M as
> > >>well
> > >>as manipulation of money (& it is amazing what comes up on conversation
> > >>during those walks where we are not focused on other things). Some
> things
> > >>turn in to expected chores ? the list gradually expands over time. It
> is
> > >>never too early to start. Some things like learning to zip a vest or
> > >>organize a backpack or tie shoes just have to be barreled through. &
> yes,
> > >>we
> > >>too can relate to toothpaste challenges.
> > >>This summer my younger son is out of town with my wife due to his
> recent
> > >>eye
> > >>surgery; the older one is too old for the Buddy Program & not old
> enough
> > >>for
> > >>the next level up. Since he is motivated & this is an important
> > >>transition
> > >>year before high school, we decide to make the most of this summer &
> our
> > >>focus is to tackle a longer list of things to address.
> > >>At the beginning of the summer I asked my older son to generate a list
> of
> > >>things he wanted to & he felt he needed work on. I asked him to think
> big
> > >>&
> > >>to be ambitious. That he did!
> > >>We were pleasantly surprised to get his list ? much of what was on
> there
> > >>were things that my wife & I too felt needed to be addressed, but
> > >>importantly, it is his list. We sat down & categorized the items on the
> > >>list
> > >>& are working through those. He is now downloading books on his own,
> > >>working
> > >>on his laptop skills (getting a handle on iTunes & Bookshare are both
> > >>motivating & empowering). He has been making his own breakfast
> everyday,
> > >>working on other meals, & even cleaning off the table. (He did share
> with
> > >>me
> > >>that he is now consciously trying to eat neater, so that there is less
> to
> > >>wipe off the table - & it has been totally clean even before he wiped
> it
> > >>off
> > >>a number of times now). ?Kitchen O&M? is a great experience & he now is
> > >>beginning to realize how much effort is takes to prepare for meals
> (with
> > >>my
> > >>wife out of town, he & I have to go buy everything as well). He has
> > >>really
> > >>taken ownership for his list & is enthusiastically pursuing things that
> > >>my
> > >>otherwise have been taxing.
> > >>An unanticipated "side-effect" of being apart for a few weeks is that
> > >>when
> > >>the boys talk to each other on the phone, they each are somewhat
> envious
> > >>of
> > >>what the other is doing or learning & now are asking to try things on
> the
> > >>other is working on! :-)
> > >>We still have about a month to go before the start of the upcoming
> school
> > >>year. Both boys will have accomplished & learned a lot of skills by
> that
> > >>time. We are making nice progress through the list, taking on items on
> as
> > >>seems most natural throughout the course of this summer. They will have
> > >>mastered some, but not all. We will however at least address each item
> > >>more
> > >>than just superficially - to a level that will be their solid
> foundation
> > >>for
> > >>this next year when they can follow through & practice until they reach
> > >>proficiency.
> > >>Honestly, the sense of pride & confidence that emanates from each of
> them
> > >>the first time they do the task totally on their own is precious. It is
> > >>very
> > >>gratifying to see how with time & further practice they refine each new
> > >>skill until it becomes commonplace. What once provoked anxiety or
> unease
> > >>has
> > >>been transformed into their routine. They actually seem to enjoy coming
> > >>up
> > >>with goals to work on.
> > >>It?s never too early to start working on things in a more focused
> > >>fashion.
> > >>Time flies by oh so fast?
> > >>Eric V
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>_______________________________________________
> > >>blindkid mailing list
> > >>blindkid at nfbnet.org
> > >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindkid_nfbnet.org
> > >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > >>blindkid:
> > >>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindkid_nfbnet.org/gabe808%40hawai
> > >>i
> > >>an
> > >>tel.net
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>_______________________________________________
> > >>blindkid mailing list
> > >>blindkid at nfbnet.org
> > >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindkid_nfbnet.org
> > >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > >>blindkid:
> > >>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindkid_nfbnet.org/icdx%40earthlin
> > >>k
> > >>.net
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >_______________________________________________
> > >blindkid mailing list
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> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 12
> > Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2011 23:51:08 -0700
> > From: "Debbie Gabe" <gabe808 at hawaiiantel.net>
> > To: "'NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List, \(for parents of blind
> > children\)'" <blindkid at nfbnet.org>
> > Subject: Re: [blindkid] Independence Check Lists
> > Message-ID: <000a01cc4dbb$e5ff5200$b1fdf600$@net>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> >
> > Hi Eric,
> > Is there a local NFB chapter in your area? I would contact them and ask
> for help, in the form of either a blind mentor for the family and an
> advocate for the IEP meetings.
> >
> > I've never been part of the school system, always been outside of it, and
> I've always seen school systems as a big mystery.
> > I know that in the schools, the OT is probably the best professional to
> deal with certail ADL tasks, but OTs as a rule have low expectations for
> blind people and no little about blindness. Believe, I used to work with
> some very good OTs, and they knew nothing about blindness and what blind
> people were capable of.
> >
> > If I was in your boat, I'd try to make friends with some blind adults and
> pick their brains and invite them on family outings and over for dinners as
> a friend and as a role model for your child and as a resource for you.
> >
> > I do know that here in Hawaii, we did have a few high school students
> attend our adult orientation center on a part time basis during their senior
> years. All different schedules: one was 2 days a week, one was every
> afternoon, and one was 2 mornings and 3 afternoons. It got into their IEPs,
> thanks to someone from the local NFB chapter who went to IEP meetings along
> with a VR counselor from our center.
> > But it's great for your kid that at least you are connected with the NFB
> and their parents division. It's a great division - I've attended a few of
> their meetings at national conventions. So you are doing more for your kid
> just from that that many parents are I'm talking about the parents who
> don't get their kid or themselves involved with NFB type activities. Good
> for you!
> > Being a parent of anyone is a challenge, regardless of whether they are
> sighted or blind!
> > debs
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: blindkid-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindkid-bounces at nfbnet.org]
> On Behalf Of DrV
> > Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2011 10:35 PM
> > To: NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List, (for parents of blind children)
> > Subject: Re: [blindkid] Independence Check Lists
> >
> > Hi Debbie,
> > Thanks for elaborating & for the thoughtful response. It is great to have
> > you as a resource.
> > I agree that those are important things to think about & to learn.
> > Perhaps our definitions of what constitutes ADLs (activities of daily
> > living) differs a bit.
> > While learning is certainly intertwined, & while mobility is critical for
> > independence, my understanding is that in the ECC, ADLs are separated out
> > from O&M.
> > The Expanded Core Curriculum is broken down into 9 categories
> > (
> www.afb.org/Section.asp?SectionID=44&TopicID=189&SubTopicID=4&DocumentID=2
> > 117):
> > My opinion of the ECC & who really addresses the components hasn't
> changed
> > much over time.
> > Here's my take on this:
> > 1. Compensatory or functional academic skills, including communication
> > modes -> something that the whole IEP Team works on.
> > 2. Orientation and mobility -> Hopefully O&M Instructor addresses this,
> > though by the time many students graduate they still don t really have
> the
> > independent travel skills they need. Too often the childhood O&M
> > instructors don't cover all that needs to be covered to be truly
> > independent & essentially pass the buck to rehab. The educational systems
> > largely overlooks the reality that many kids will have traveled in far
> > more environments & will have covered many more miles with their parents
> > than with a formally trained O&M instructor.
> > 3. Social interaction skills -> Addressed be parents & hopefully by the
> > school.
> > 4. Independent living skills -> I still am of the belief that the bulk of
> > this rests on the parents & summer programs like the Buddy Program (If
> > this were appropriately addressed, fewer young adults would need to take
> > 6-9 months or so off work on these skills in post-high school programs).
> > In the school setting an OT is probably better trained to address these
> > skills than the average VI teacher.
> > 5. Recreation and leisure skills -> This one is mostly the up to the
> > parents.
> > 6. Career education -> Parents & rehab.
> > 7. Use of assistive technology -> TVI though often only because of the
> > persistence of the parents - unfortunately many TVIs struggle with
> > technology, especially the newer stuff, but often even the basics.
> > 8. Sensory efficiency skills (unless one includes echolocation as part of
> > this skill set, short of a hearing aide or special magnification devises,
> > I'm not clear to me how often or formally this one is addressed)
> > 9. Self-determination -> This one is again mostly the parents & youth
> > programs like those put on by the NFB that both role model & foster this.
> > Obviously the buy-in & attitude of the student is critical, for they are
> > the most important component, but the reality is that most TVIs don't
> > really have the time or experience to cover all the components of the
> ECC.
> > Given the current caseloads & the limited time: 45-60 minutes with a TVI
> 2
> > or 3 times a week, or even daily & 45-90 minutes with an O&M instructor a
> > week, it is no great surprise that this is not adequately covered. Beyond
> > that, many (perhaps most) General Ed administrators & teachers have never
> > heard of the ECC.
> > A number of the components of The Expanded Core Curriculum are covered
> > indirectly & superficially, if at all, by the formal IEP process & the
> ECC
> > is rarely covered with the same vigor & level of high expectations as the
> > General Education Curriculum.
> >
> >
> > I couldn't agree with you more that the input of good blind mentors &
> > blind peers are an amazing asset for a blind child & their families -
> > unfortunately I don't know of many IEP teams that actively incorporate or
> > encourage blind mentors.
> > I wish things were different, but such is my perspective.
> > Eric
> >
> > On 7/28/11 8:31 PM, "Debbie Gabe" <gabe808 at hawaiiantel.net> wrote:
> >
> > >Well, these are the million dollar questions.....
> > >
> > >I would begin with the basics. I don't know how old your child is or
> what
> > >he or she can and cannot do, but....
> > >Just thinking back to when my kids were in school, there were always
> kids
> > >from the class who went to the office to deliver things, counted the
> > >lunch money, delivered messages to the library or school nurse, etc. So
> > >if your kid needs help with mobility, I would expect him/her to be
> > >included in the rotation to take on any and all classroom chores, as any
> > >other kid would do.
> > >If he's learning about money and food, he should learn how to count
> > >money, about decimals, identifying coins, how to fold money, how to shop
> > >with customer service, the layout of most grocery stores, etc. Don't let
> > >the teacher teach him how to use wallets with a bunch of different
> > >zippered pockets. Make sure he learns how to fold his currency. So it
> all
> > >depends on what his curriculum is. ADL and mobility skills can be fitted
> > >in in a lot of places in different subjects.
> > >A trip to the grocery store includes mobility, money, math, percentages
> > >for sale prices, use of talking calculators, , besides nutrition,
> > >classifying fruits, vegetables, etc., learning to read nutrition labels,
> > >math again (percentage of calories from fat, etc), cchemical names of
> > >ingredients or vitamins and minerals, geography (where is the food
> grown,
> > >packaged, bottled, etc), ecology (how did the food get to your store,
> how
> > >long did it have to travel, how did it travel, what kind of energy was
> > >used to transport it, what kind of carbon "footprint" does it leave).
> > >
> > >And whatever lessons were being done at school, I would try to do them
> at
> > >home as well. I think a lot of ADL tasks can be taught just as part of
> > >living. If school is working on math at the store, take the kid with you
> > >and talk about figuring out costs with the 20% off sale or how much you
> > >saved at the market when you used your store awards card, what
> percentage
> > >does that equal, or what is the family budget for groceries for the week
> > >and did you make it or overspend, and what happens when you overspend or
> > >have money left over for the week? Let him ask for customer service for
> > >help shopping for, at first, just one or two items, and then increase
> the
> > >number. Have him help you unpack the groceries at home, identify them,
> > >put them away, discuss what they will be used for in what recipes, which
> > >foods support goodhealth and which are special treat items, which are
> > >grown locally and which are imported, etc. Is there a nearby store you
> > >can walk to so he can get used to that, as well as carrying packages
> home
> > >after shopping? Does he know how to listen for parallel and
> perpendicular
> > >traffic at street corners and listening to the flow of traffic as the
> > >lights change?
> > >
> > >This is where a good blind mentor might be able to help you.
> > >
> > >Don't know if any of that helps.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >I appreciate your enthusiasm & passion, & also agree with much of what
> you
> > >say, but as far as ADLs, what would you suggest adding to a child's IEP
> > >that would actually accomplish something of significance?
> > >How would you phrase goals?
> > >Young adults may catch on quickly, but many kids require lots of
> practice
> > >& repetition to really master ADLs independently.
> > >Beyond the "lack of time" issue that I hear oh too often in TVI forums,
> > >the unspoken, but very real reality is that many, likely most, VI
> teachers
> > >don't have the experience and training to teach ADLs any better than a
> > >parent. They also don't have the experience and training to explain to a
> > >parent how to teach these activities at home. ADLs are a huge deficiency
> > >gap in their training.
> > >Respectfully,
> > >Eric V
> > >
> > >
> > >On 7/25/11 8:29 PM, "Debbie Gabe" <gabe808 at hawaiiantel.net> wrote:
> > >
> > >>Hi,
> > >>I work with your kids when they get out of high school. I am a personal
> > >>and
> > >>home management instructor at an adult blind orientation center in
> > >>Honolulu.
> > >>And I'm also partially blind myself.
> > >>
> > >>I hope that no one takes what I will say the wrong way. But my primary
> > >>concern is for the blind kid. My center is built on the belief that
> > >>blindness can be reduced to a mere inconvenience with the proper
> > >>training,
> > >>and we have high expectations for all of our students. We encourage
> them
> > >>to
> > >>problem solve as often as possible in all sorts of situations. We
> > >>encourage
> > >>them to strive for independence and self confidence. So what I have to
> > >>say
> > >>comes from those thoughts and intentions, not to put anyone down.
> Because
> > >>I
> > >>am also a parent, and I know how hard raising kids is.
> > >>
> > >>It's really a struggle for those kids who grew up blind and have been
> > >>overprotected. They often do not know how to explore. And moving their
> > >>bodies to explore a countertop or cabinet or floor is really crucial to
> > >>learning how to sweep, clean, wipe counters, mop, look for items in a
> > >>closet
> > >>or cabinet or refrigerator, clean a stove, etc, etc. It's even crucial
> > >>when
> > >>trying to teach them how to stir fry, saut?, turn over hamburgers they
> > >>have
> > >>placed on a grill, scrambling eggs, ironing.
> > >>
> > >>Please, please let them, teach them how to explore, encourage them to
> > >>move,
> > >>let them try anything their sighted peers or siblings would try (within
> > >>reason, of course, like not driving). Encourage them, no expect them,
> to
> > >>do
> > >>their chores (or face the consequences), to help out around the house,
> > >>setting the table, clearning the table, cleaning dishes, scrubbing the
> > >>toilet and tub, loading and starting the washer. Teach them how to
> label
> > >>their clothes so they can separate their own clothes for laundry loads.
> > >>They
> > >>will need to know how to do this when they go off to college anyway.
> Let
> > >>them help you in the kitchen: chopping, using real chef knives even,
> > >>stirring, frying, baking, grilling, lighting birthday cake candles.
> Yes,
> > >>there are ways to do these things safely. If you are worried about
> fires,
> > >>teach them simple first aid and by all means, please teach them how to
> > >>use a
> > >>fire extinguisher and let them find out where your are. Speaking of
> that,
> > >>teach them how to change the batteries in the smoke alarms and how to
> > >>check
> > >>the batteries once a month. Let them help you mark the microwave and
> > >>oven
> > >>controls, washer and dryer controls, iron controls, etc so that they
> can
> > >>use
> > >>these independently after learning how.
> > >>
> > >>Believe me, you are hindering your child by not allowing and expecting
> > >>him/her to learn how to do these simple household/family activities.
> > >>And if you just don't know how to teach some of these things, or don't
> > >>have
> > >>the time, ask to have some of these things put on their IEPs. I have
> had
> > >>several school teachers of the blind contact me for suggestions and
> > >>tip-sharing for teaching these activities.
> > >>But the most important thing to teach is how to be inquisitive and to
> > >>explore anything and everything!
> > >>
> > >>Sorry to go on so long, but I had to add my 2 cents.
> > >>Good luck to you all.
> > >>Debbie
> > >>
> > >>-----Original Message-----
> > >>From: blindkid-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindkid-bounces at nfbnet.org]
> On
> > >>Behalf Of Bonnie Lucas
> > >>Sent: Monday, July 25, 2011 4:09 PM
> > >>To: 'NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List, (for parents of blind children)'
> > >>Subject: Re: [blindkid] Independence Check Lists
> > >>
> > >>That is so cool. I know he won't regret learning these things while he
> is
> > >>young. He will be able to truly fit in with his peers.
> > >>Bonnie
> > >>
> > >>-----Original Message-----
> > >>From: DrV [mailto:icdx at earthlink.net]
> > >>Sent: Monday, July 25, 2011 6:40 AM
> > >>To: NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List, (for parents of blind children)
> > >>Subject: [blindkid] Independence Check Lists
> > >>
> > >>Hi All,
> > >>I'm sure most, if not all, of the parents on this listserv can relate
> to
> > >>the
> > >>sentiment of "there is just not enough time to teach my son or daughter
> > >>everything". While I don't have "the answer", I wanted to share an
> > >>approach
> > >>that seems to be working out well for us.
> > >>As my older son is about to start his freshman year at high school, I
> > >>keep
> > >>asking myself "Where has all the time gone? How could it possibly have
> > >>slipped by so quickly?" In 4 short years collage tuition will be due.
> > >>It is also becoming increasingly clear that there is still a lot to
> cover
> > >>on
> > >>the non-academic side in order for him (& us) to feel comfortable with
> > >>him
> > >>living & getting around on his own, potentially in a new city. There is
> > >>shopping, laundry, & a host of other stuff he will need to be able to
> do
> > >>on
> > >>his own.
> > >>My older son really wants be ready on a social level for high school.
> > >>Those
> > >>that know him are quite aware he is very talkative & social, but it is
> > >>all
> > >>the other skills that need work (independent mobility, organization,
> more
> > >>advanced technology awareness, more appropriate table manners &
> > >>independence
> > >>so he can confidently, comfortably go out to eat & party with friends,
> > >>maintain a neat room & bathroom for when friends come over, etc). There
> > >>is a
> > >>lot that still needs to be covered - these are things that for many
> blind
> > >>kids end up not really getting covered to a truly adequate degree at
> > >>school.
> > >>I'm sure some of you have heard of the "Expanded Core Curriculum for
> > >>Blind
> > >>and VI Children and Youths" ? it?s supposed to be part of every IEP? As
> > >>someone who is slowly becoming a more seasoned veteran (as a parent), I
> > >>hope
> > >>no one is holding his or her breath for the educational system to
> address
> > >>everything.
> > >>For years we have been approaching this is in "baby steps" you might
> say;
> > >>we
> > >>sit down several times a year & list out a finite number of things that
> > >>we
> > >>want to specifically address with our boys for the next few months (the
> > >>number varies with what is on the list). If we don't go through that
> > >>process, then the time just seems to slip by without really actively
> > >>addressing all but the most pressing issues. In recent years we have
> had
> > >>the
> > >>boys contribute their wishes to that process ? figuring everyone has
> > >>different priorities & because they will likely put more effort into
> what
> > >>they perceive to be most important. We try to when possible make it fun
> ?
> > >>walking to the local minimart to buy a Sunday newspaper involves O&M as
> > >>well
> > >>as manipulation of money (& it is amazing what comes up on conversation
> > >>during those walks where we are not focused on other things). Some
> things
> > >>turn in to expected chores ? the list gradually expands over time. It
> is
> > >>never too early to start. Some things like learning to zip a vest or
> > >>organize a backpack or tie shoes just have to be barreled through. &
> yes,
> > >>we
> > >>too can relate to toothpaste challenges.
> > >>This summer my younger son is out of town with my wife due to his
> recent
> > >>eye
> > >>surgery; the older one is too old for the Buddy Program & not old
> enough
> > >>for
> > >>the next level up. Since he is motivated & this is an important
> > >>transition
> > >>year before high school, we decide to make the most of this summer &
> our
> > >>focus is to tackle a longer list of things to address.
> > >>At the beginning of the summer I asked my older son to generate a list
> of
> > >>things he wanted to & he felt he needed work on. I asked him to think
> big
> > >>&
> > >>to be ambitious. That he did!
> > >>We were pleasantly surprised to get his list ? much of what was on
> there
> > >>were things that my wife & I too felt needed to be addressed, but
> > >>importantly, it is his list. We sat down & categorized the items on the
> > >>list
> > >>& are working through those. He is now downloading books on his own,
> > >>working
> > >>on his laptop skills (getting a handle on iTunes & Bookshare are both
> > >>motivating & empowering). He has been making his own breakfast
> everyday,
> > >>working on other meals, & even cleaning off the table. (He did share
> with
> > >>me
> > >>that he is now consciously trying to eat neater, so that there is less
> to
> > >>wipe off the table - & it has been totally clean even before he wiped
> it
> > >>off
> > >>a number of times now). ?Kitchen O&M? is a great experience & he now is
> > >>beginning to realize how much effort is takes to prepare for meals
> (with
> > >>my
> > >>wife out of town, he & I have to go buy everything as well). He has
> > >>really
> > >>taken ownership for his list & is enthusiastically pursuing things that
> > >>my
> > >>otherwise have been taxing.
> > >>An unanticipated "side-effect" of being apart for a few weeks is that
> > >>when
> > >>the boys talk to each other on the phone, they each are somewhat
> envious
> > >>of
> > >>what the other is doing or learning & now are asking to try things on
> the
> > >>other is working on! :-)
> > >>We still have about a month to go before the start of the upcoming
> school
> > >>year. Both boys will have accomplished & learned a lot of skills by
> that
> > >>time. We are making nice progress through the list, taking on items on
> as
> > >>seems most natural throughout the course of this summer. They will have
> > >>mastered some, but not all. We will however at least address each item
> > >>more
> > >>than just superficially - to a level that will be their solid
> foundation
> > >>for
> > >>this next year when they can follow through & practice until they reach
> > >>proficiency.
> > >>Honestly, the sense of pride & confidence that emanates from each of
> them
> > >>the first time they do the task totally on their own is precious. It is
> > >>very
> > >>gratifying to see how with time & further practice they refine each new
> > >>skill until it becomes commonplace. What once provoked anxiety or
> unease
> > >>has
> > >>been transformed into their routine. They actually seem to enjoy coming
> > >>up
> > >>with goals to work on.
> > >>It?s never too early to start working on things in a more focused
> > >>fashion.
> > >>Time flies by oh so fast?
> > >>Eric V
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>_______________________________________________
> > >>blindkid mailing list
> > >>blindkid at nfbnet.org
> > >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindkid_nfbnet.org
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> > >>blindkid:
> > >>
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> > >>i
> > >>an
> > >>tel.net
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>_______________________________________________
> > >>blindkid mailing list
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> > >>k
> > >>.net
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >_______________________________________________
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> > >
> > >
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> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
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> > End of blindkid Digest, Vol 87, Issue 26
> > ****************************************
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2011 21:31:48 -0700
> From: DrV <icdx at earthlink.net>
> To: "NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List, (for parents of blind children)"
> <blindkid at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: [blindkid] US Dept of Justice's & US Dept of Education's New
> Accessible Technology Guidelines
> Message-ID: <CA58D744.6C62%icdx at earthlink.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Hi All,
>
> I sat down & read through the documents & have to say "WOW!" Take the time
> to read these eye-opening documents ? especially the FAQ (Frequently Asked
> Questions). What a powerful set of guidelines for students, parents, &
> TVIs!
>
> The bar of expectations set forth by the US Departments of Justice &
> Education has been set surprisingly high! I would love to know whose input
> went into composing the guidelines - for it looks like they did a Great
> Job!
>
> The FAQ is a MUST Read - The statements of what is expected of school
> districts & universities & the examples they use are very clear.
>
> I have attached PDFs of the 2 letters & of the FAQ & took the liberty of
> highlighting some points & examples (the links are at the end of this if
> you
> want clean copies).
>
> In summary, the FAQ makes the following points:
>
> Point #1: The FAQ makes the point the Dear Colleague Letters do not impose
> new legal obligations, but rather reflect long-standing law as it applies
> to
> new technologies.
>
> 2. Does the DCL apply in the context of students with other disabilities
> that affect the ability to use printed materials?
> Electronic Book Reader vs. Audiobook Example: The school is replacing the
> history textbooks with electronic book readers as the principal means of
> conveying curriculum content, including all homework assignments. In this
> example, the electronic book readers provide greater functionality than
> audiobooks provide, with the result that an audiobook would not afford the
> benefits of the educational program in an equally effective and equally
> integrated manner. For this reason the school may not continue to rely on
> audiobooks to provide equal access to the curriculum. (Presumably this
> would
> apply to embossed books as well ? ie: an embossed textbook or even
> electronic file of a textbook is not the same as an electronic book reader
> file.)
>
> 3. Does the DCL mean that schools cannot use emerging technology?
> Answer: No. On the contrary, the Department encourages schools to employ
> innovative learning tools. The purpose of the DCL is to remind everyone
> that
> equal access for students with disabilities is the law and must be
> considered as new technology is integrated into the educational
> environment.
>
> 4. Does the DCL apply to elementary and secondary schools?
> Answer: Yes.
>
> 5. Does the DCL apply to all school operations and all faculty and staff?
> Answer: Yes - all faculty and staff must comply with these requirements.
> The law applies to all faculty and staff - So, for example, if an adjunct
> faculty member denies a student who is blind an equal opportunity to
> participate in a course by assigning inaccessible course content, the
> school
> can be held legally responsible for the faculty member's actions.
> Therefore,
> schools should provide, and faculty and staff should participate in,
> professional development about accessibility and emerging technology, and
> about the role of faculty and staff in helping the school to comply with
> disability discrimination laws.
>
> 6. Does the DCL apply beyond electronic book readers to other forms of
> emerging technology?
> Answer: Yes - whether in a ?brick and mortar,? online, or other ?virtual?
> context - must be operated in a manner that complies with Federal
> disability
> discrimination laws.
>
> 7. Does the DCL apply to ? online content, such as online ?. class
> assignments??
> Answer: Yes
>
> 8. Does the DCL apply to pilot programs ? ?
> Answer: Yes
>
> 9. Does the DCL apply when planning to use an emerging technology in a
> class
> or school where no students with visual impairments are currently enrolled?
> Answer: Yes - the legal obligations described in the DCL always apply. Just
> as a school system would not design a new school without addressing
> physical
> accessibility, the implementation of an emerging technology should always
> include planning for accessibility.
>
> 10. What questions should a school ask in determining whether emerging
> technology is accessible, or can be made accessible, to students with
> disabilities?
> Answer: Schools should begin by considering accessibility issues up front,
> when they are deciding whether to create or acquire emerging technology and
> when they are planning how the technology will be used. To that end,
> schools
> should include accessibility requirements and analyses as part of their
> acquisition procedures.
>
> Example: A school intends to establish a Web mail system so that students
> can: communicate with each other and with faculty and staff; receive
> important messages from the school (e.g., a message about a health or
> safety
> concern); and communicate with individuals outside the school. The school
> must ensure that the educational benefits, services, and opportunities
> provided to students through a Web mail system are provided in an equally
> effective and equally integrated manner. Before deciding what system to
> purchase, the school should make an initial inquiry into whether the system
> is accessible to students who are blind or have low vision, e.g., whether
> the system is compatible with screen readers and whether it gives users the
> option of using large fonts.
>
> 11. The DCL states that where accessible technology is not available, a
> school can comply with Section 504 and the ADA if it provides students with
> disabilities ?accommodations or modifications that permit them to receive
> all the educational benefits provided by the technology in an equally
> effective and equally integrated manner.?
>
> Example: A high school teacher creates an online course that includes
> instruction, posting of assignments and other course content, and a forum
> where students can discuss their course work with the teacher and each
> other. The teacher would like to incorporate video clips into the course,
> but is unable to obtain the video clips with audio descriptions. As a
> modification, the teacher creates separate audio descriptions for each
> video
> clip that narrate what is taking place in the video, and places them in a
> separate section of the online course. The online course includes links
> that
> enable persons who use screen readers to bypass the video clips completely
> and instead listen to the audio descriptions. Here, the use of detailed
> audio descriptions that are a part of the online course would provide
> students with disabilities access to the same opportunities and benefits in
> an equally effective and equally integrated manner.
>
> In short:
> 1. Each teacher's webpage, the assignments they post, & websites
> (including all video materials) they suggest or require have to all be
> accessible.
>
> 2. Calendar ? assignment ? grade posting programs that
> schools/districts use, such as Edline, Grade Book Wizard, and others need
> to
> be fully accessible.
>
> 3. If a teacher refers students to textbook publisher websites the
> web-based materials such as quizzes, study guides, and videos have to be
> fully accessible.
>
>
> The bar has appropriately been set high by the US Dept of Justice & the US
> Dept of Education.
> I wonder how many, if any, districts are truly in compliance with these
> guidelines?
> I'd love to hear VI teacher input & VI program administrator on this topic.
> Respectfully,
> Eric V
> -----
> 1. June 29, 2010 US Department of Education Dear Colleague
> letter:
> www2.ed.gov/about/offices/list/ocr/letters/colleague-20100629.html.
>
> 2. Guidelines in the form of Frequently Asked Questions:
> www2.ed.gov/about/offices/list/ocr/docs/dcl-ebook-faq-201105.html.
>
> 3. May 26, 2011 second US DOE Dear Colleague letter stating that
> the same legal obligations apply to elementary and secondary schools:
>
> www2.ed.gov/about/offices/list/ocr/letters/colleague-201105-ese.html
>
>
>
>
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