[blindkid] What are your thoughts on coloring?

Meng, Debi Meng at sccompanies.com
Tue Oct 4 18:41:04 UTC 2011


Exactly!   When the child does not enjoy coloring, but is forced to
complete the project, which took his peers half the time, then it is a
negative experience.  I like the idea of putting it in the IEP that he
coloring should be kept to a specified minimum, not a daily activity.
That way he gets the experience, without it being a daily chore.  

Thank you to everyone for the great ideas and comments.  I have lots to
share. 

Debi

-----Original Message-----
From: blindkid-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindkid-bounces at nfbnet.org]
On Behalf Of Brandy W
Sent: Monday, October 03, 2011 10:46 AM
To: Deborah Kent Stein; NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List,(for parents of
blind children)
Subject: Re: [blindkid] What are your thoughts on coloring?

While many of us had these experiences the problem is the child
continuing to be forced to color while his classmates move on.

Bran



"When we treat children's play as seriously as it deserves, we are
helping them feel the joy that's to be found in the creative spirit.
It's the things we play with and the people who help us play that make a
great difference in our lives."
- Fred Rogers

Brandy Wojcik
Discovery Toys Educational Consultant and Team Leader
www.playtoachieve.com
(512) 689-5045

Looking for team members nation wide!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Deborah Kent Stein" <dkent5817 at att.net>
To: "NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List,(for parents of blind children)" 
<blindkid at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, October 03, 2011 10:28 AM
Subject: Re: [blindkid] What are your thoughts on coloring?


>
>
> I'd like to weigh into this discussion on coloring.  I very much
enjoyed 
> coloring as a blind child, although I didn't use standard coloring
books. 
> I would draw with crayons because I could feel the wax on the page. 
> Sometimes my mother would make a raised line picture for me to color, 
> using pinpricks or a sewing tracing wheel to make the outline.  I
labeled 
> my crayons so I knew what color I was using.  I think this was very 
> valuable play for me. Filling in an outline was certainly good for
fine 
> motor coordination and tactile discrimination.  Also, coloring helped
me 
> learn a lot about how three-dimensional objects are rendered in two 
> dimensions.  I learned about profile, front view, and aerial view,
even a 
> bit about perspective.  By asking questions and following directions I

> learned what colors are appropriate for what pictures - a house might
be 
> white or yellow but probably not purple or orange, for instance; and
brown 
> was for a rabbit but not blue or green.  Coloring was something that
all 
> of my sighted peers did on a regular basis, and I wanted to do what
they 
> did.  Fortunately my family was supportive and helped me find ways to
make 
> coloring a fun and meaningful activity.  When we did coloring at
school 
> the teacher would hand me a blank sheet of paper and I'd make my own 
> pictures.
>
> Today there are a number of raised-line coloring books available, and
by 
> using a coloring screen an adult can easily create a raised outline
for a 
> child to explore and fill in.  In our increasingly
graphically-oriented 
> world, it's important for blind kids to understand the basics of how 
> pictures work.
>
> Debbie
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Heather Field" <missheather at comcast.net>
> To: "NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List,(for parents of blind children)" 
> <blindkid at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Saturday, October 01, 2011 10:21 PM
> Subject: Re: [blindkid] What are your thoughts on coloring?
>
>
>> Hi Richard,
>> Always pleased to hear your comments and I love your perspective as a
dad 
>> of a blind child who is negotiating the inclusion experience. :)
>>
>> I agree with you 100%that blind children should participate in
learning 
>> as much about the world as they can. Crayons, markers, pencils,
print, 
>> glue, scissors, paint and paint brushes, water-colours, oil paints;
you 
>> name it, I believe that blind children should experience it and learn
how 
>> to use the items correctly. I knew all my print letters by age eight
and, 
>> when appropriate, engaged in art activities in which I could
meaningfully 
>> and successfully participate. But, "successfully" is the operative
word. 
>> In the example you shared with us, there was no "right way" for the 
>> children to decorate their super hero cape. Therefore, your child's 
>> choice to use markers and to create her own designs made it a
successful 
>> art experience for her. She made her own choices and she did the work
and 
>> made the designs, creatively engaging with the medium. When she was 
>> finished, no one could look at her cape and say that her artistic 
>> expression was "wrong".
>>
>> However, the problem arises when we start talking about coloring.
There 
>> is a "right way" and a very "wrong way" to do coloring. I disagree
that 
>> there is a time when blind children should be made to color so we can
all 
>> pretend that they're doing what the other children are doing after 
>> preschool. We need to deal with reality and it doesn't do the blind
child 
>> any favours to make them color so that they consistently show their 
>> sighted peers how incompent they are at coloring while the sighted 
>> children improve. Even adapting the activity so that it's done on
screen 
>> is not artistically pleasing because the colors cannot be
appreciated. 
>> The purpose of coloring is to cover up the white space inside the 
>> outlined picture and to keep the color inside the lines. Everyone who
can 
>> see can immediately tell, upon seeing the blind child's work, that it
is 
>> wrong. This is not a positive inclusion experience for the blind
child.
>>
>> Most blind children have been in preschool since three years of age.
By 
>> the time they are in Kindergarten they have had had more than enough 
>> opportunities, assuming a normal learning situation, to have all the 
>> experience with crayons which they need. Note, I say need. The TVIs
with 
>> whom these parents have been dealing are claiming flat out that these

>> blind children "need" to be coloring. In one case the poor child is
being 
>> forced to waste his time coloring with crayons long after the other 
>> children are finished. Furthermore, this is not a one or two time art

>> activity/inclusion experience. This is a case where blind children
are 
>> being forced to color again and again, day after day just to pretend
that 
>> they are being included, or that they are receiving some physical 
>> benefits which are patently not occurring.
>>
>> We all agree that there is no perfect system and, just aschools for
the 
>> blind have their drawbacks, the inclusion setting has some serious 
>> problems unless some really dedicated and skillful people are
involved in 
>> making it work to truly educate blind children. I regularly go to IEP

>> meetings and have to fight alongside parents to stop the foolishness 
>> being forced on blind children in the name of inclusion.
>>
>> There is no place for coloring for blind children on a regular basis
in 
>> my opinion. Certainly, to claim that the blind child should endure it
day 
>> after day in the name of inclusion, or to benefit physically, when 
>> evidence demonstrates that the benefits simply do not occur,is 
>> unconscionable in my opinion.
>>
>> I would let the profoundly deaf child attend a violin concert in 
>> kindergarten if the class were attending one, but I would not send
her 
>> day after day to violin lessons, nor would I insist that she stay and

>> practise her violin long after the other hearing students have left. 
>> Indeed, I would be willing to ascert that the teacher of the deaf
would 
>> agree. A one-time experience is different from regular pretense.
>>
>> So, to summarise. I am not saying blind children shouldn't be allowed
to 
>> play with crayons, to draw and color to their hearts content in
preschool 
>> and at home if they choose. However, I can see no educational value
in 
>> forcing blind children to color pictures they can't see with colors
they 
>> can't see during school lesson time. I remain unconvinced by any of
the 
>> reasons that TVIs have given me for the benefits of this practise.
And, 
>> blind children, in my opinion, should not always be doing identical 
>> activities to their classmates in the name of inclusion. When they
cannot 
>> learn or express themselves creatively in the activity their sighted 
>> classmates are doing, then the activity needs to be replaced with 
>> another.
>> You have made some important points   regarding the need to ensure
that 
>> young blind children be given lots of experiences, including
interacting 
>> with the same learning media used by their sighted peers. With these 
>> points I heartily agree. However, I believe that enforced, prolonged 
>> coloring has no benefits, educational, social or otherwise for the 
>> functionally blind child.  I remain absolutely convinced that parents

>> should prevent teachers from forcing blind students to color in the 
>> elementary school classroom. I recommend that they get it written in
the 
>> IEPs of their blind children that no coloring will be engaged in in
the 
>> classroom.
>> I always enjoy Carol's thoughtful posts and await her response to my 
>> question with interest.
>>
>> Warmest regards,
>> Heather
>>
>> -----Original Message----- 
>> From: Richard Holloway
>> Sent: Saturday, October 01, 2011 12:08 AM
>> To: NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List,(for parents of blind children)
>> Subject: Re: [blindkid] What are your thoughts on coloring?
>>
>> Heather,
>>
>> I hope you don't mind if I weigh in on something you were directing 
>> towards Carol.
>>
>> Your point is well taken, but I think there is at least a little 
>> (underscore "little") merit in letting blind children, particularly 
>> interested younger blind children, color a bit, if simply to do what
the 
>> other kids are doing. I also think that's pretty much the only reason
to 
>> have a completely blind student coloring with crayons in class. (I'm
not 
>> too convinced as far as the finger strength claims.) Let's not deny
blind 
>> kids the experience of feeling the sticky feel of crayon wax or
knowing 
>> that "crayon smell" up close, for example. Some kids even learn the 
>> taste, but I'm not encouraging that "common experience"! I do still 
>> remember that sticky sound they make when they are lifted from the
page, 
>> and that takes me straight back to my grade school, if not pre-school

>> days. It isn't so much doing the same exact activity, it is sharing
the 
>> same common experience, at least as much as possible.
>>
>> My concern here is, to borrow the example of the profoundly deaf
child, 
>> that this could be like telling a profoundly deaf child she MUST NOT
go 
>> and sit with friends for a violin demonstration in a music
appreciation 
>> class. There are socially appropriate reasons to offer these 
>> opportunities, and in that case, some visual learning that would
sneak in 
>> to at least slightly offset the lost auditory learning opportunity.
>>
>> With that said, why not use raised glue lines or perhaps screen wire
to 
>> make this more interesting and yet be a sharing opportunity for the
same 
>> general (crayon) experience, or better still (it seems to me) after
the 
>> child has experienced the crayon drawing a bit, why not offer a
related, 
>> but more tactile activity that is similar to what the other kids are 
>> doing in the same place at the same time? This is the point where the

>> poor planning really comes in from a teaching standpoint-- now being
the 
>> time to start crafting the same cow the other kids are
crayon-coloring 
>> out of play-doh, for example.
>>
>> Ideally (though it rarely seems to happen) some teachers even think
to 
>> replace at least some highly visual activities for the WHOLE CLASS
(like 
>> coloring with crayons) with other things at times which are more
tactile. 
>> (Pipe cleaners, cotton balls, gluing pasta or sequins or beads,
play-doh, 
>> clay, etc.) Some also give ALL the kids a couple of choices and make 
>> certain that at least one is non-visually focused. We have in fact 
>> sometimes found that the sighted kids think it is "not fair" that
they 
>> cannot do the "cool things" Kendra gets to do. (A whole different 
>> discussion, but remember these are just kids...) So when feasible,
why 
>> can't they? Let the sighted kids use clay instead of coloring. In
fact, 
>> let the sighted kids use braillers too. Several of Kendra's sighted 
>> friends have learned a bit of basic braille during school, for
example.
>>
>> Let me offer another real-world story: Not log ago on a group family 
>> camping weekend, all the kids were decorating capes (there was a 
>> "superhero" theme). Kids each got a plain white plastic cape and
there 
>> were markers to draw on them. Kendra has no light perception, but she

>> knew what the other kids were doing so she asked for markers and even

>> specified her marker colors. She then scribbled a fairly random but
even 
>> distribution of various colors all over the cape. She was quite
pleased 
>> with her cape and wore it proudly for the rest of the weekend. I
would 
>> not dream of taking that opportunity from her. I realize you are not 
>> suggesting I should. I just want to be cautious before we start
offering 
>> a "thou shalt not" approach for these sorts of things. Other things
can 
>> get lost in the process of preventing "wasted time" on seemingly 
>> inappropriate activities.
>>
>> Kendra has a favorite color, though she doesn't even know what a
color 
>> really is. Her friends have favorites, so she does too. She wants to
know 
>> people's eye color, hair color, clothing color-- you name it. She
enjoys 
>> (conventional) letter shapes and knowing what at least some letters
feel 
>> like. She doesn't  need to know print for most things she does, but
she 
>> runs into A-frames, I-beams, D-rings, L-brackets, U-turns J-bolts 
>> V-belts, Y-splits. C-clamps, P-traps and S-curves just like we all
do. We 
>> used to tell her not to "W-sit" when she was young and to this day, I

>> doubt she has made the connection with a print letter. She hears that
"X" 
>> marks the spot in drawings and maps, and she wants to know what the
"K" 
>> in Kendra "looks" like to her sighted friends when it is on her
shirt, 
>> for example. Only recently did she learn why an "O" and a zero ("0")
are 
>> so easily confused for print readers. After all, for braille readers,
a 
>> zero gets confused with a "J" but has nothing to do with an "O". Same

>> thing with a lower-case print "L" and a one ("1"). If we shield her 
>> entirely from print learning because it may seem inappropriate, none
of 
>> those things will make sense to her. It is, in a way, a similar
problem 
>> as faced by non-braille reading teachers have when they fail to grasp
D/F 
>> and H/J or other braille reversals or to get that a simple finger
slip 
>> can quickly turn a "q" into a "p" or "r".
>>
>> As to finger strength, you know what I think is a great tool to help 
>> build finger strength for brailling? A brailler. (Why not try one
instead 
>> of crayons?) If the student is not a braille user yet, have the child

>> "scribble" on a brailler. Likewise with a slate and stylus. Many of
our 
>> kids have done it. Surely Kendra did. Working with Play-Doh or Clay
also 
>> builds strength, and there are various little devices for that as
well as 
>> specialized putty (whatever they call it) for various sorts of
therapy. 
>> ("Theraputty", is it?) It comes in different formulas. Some are
softer, 
>> others more firm. Crayon-drawing as a routine approach for building
blind 
>> kids finger strength is surely not the most practical or advisable 
>> approach, and using it all the time for a blind child surely is 
>> inappropriate.
>>
>> With all of this said, do I think that TVI's needs to spend time
working 
>> with crayons or even clay? Well, not unless these TVI's have way too
much 
>> time assigned per student. Far more than simply needed to complete
much 
>> more appropriate braille-related lessons. Maybe the classroom
teachers or 
>> a para-pros might work on this but it doesn't sound like the ideal
path 
>> to learning braille as far as I am concerned.
>>
>> Surely you are right that there is too much incompetence and ill 
>> preparedness that many of our kids deal with. I just don't want us to

>> react so strongly to it that we deprive our kids certain basic 
>> experiences when we respond to the incompetence. That's how it all 
>> strikes me-- your mileage may vary.
>>
>> Richard
>>
>>
>> On Sep 30, 2011, at 7:02 PM, Heather Field wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Carol,
>>> As, in the circumstances described in these posts by mothers whose 
>>> children have no usable vision, I can think of absolutely no useful 
>>> purpose to be served by colorin. Even coloring within raised lines
has 
>>> very small value, except for older children who have attained hand 
>>> strength, co-ordination and abstract reasoning ability, and are
working 
>>> on some kind of diagraming/graphinc or tactile art project.
>>>
>>> I liken this to insisting that profoundly deaf 5-year-olds attend
violin 
>>> music appreciation classes. While your point on how much wasted time
is 
>>> too much, is well taken, I don't believe this is the issue in this
case. 
>>> The blind children are being compelled to take part in an activity
under 
>>> false pretenses. It does not develop hand strength, co-ordination or

>>> fine motor skills for what the blind child needs. When pursued in 
>>> individual circumstances with TVIs and blind children with no usable

>>> vision, I have found in 100% of cases that the activity is chosen
out of 
>>> teacher incompetence or ill preparedness.
>>> I would be interested to hear your thoughts on how coloring benefits

>>> blind children.
>>> Regards,
>>> Heather Field
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message----- From: Carol Castellano
>>> Sent: Friday, September 30, 2011 1:56 PM
>>> To: NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List,(for parents of blind children)
>>> Subject: Re: [blindkid] What are your thoughts on coloring?
>>>
>>> I have a feeling there could be some middle ground on this issue.
>>>
>>> Some coloring may be a useful experience for some blind children.  I
>>> don't think coloring itself is the real issue--the real issue is the
>>> idea of wasting a child's time when he/she could be doing more
useful
>>> things.  I think the fact is that in any classroom on any given day,
>>> part of the time of some child--not just a blind child--might be
>>> being wasted.  Is it okay to waste some of a child's time?  How much
>>> would be acceptable? Parents of many kinds of children--not just
>>> blind children--grapple with this issue.  Teachers do, too.  If
>>> parents/the team determines that the coloring is taking up too large
>>> an amount of time and is really wasting all of that time, then it
>>> should be stopped.  But if it's determined that the coloring serves
>>> some purpose and isn't taking up an inordinate amount of time, then
>>> it could be continued.  The answer would vary, depending on the
child
>>> and the circumstances.
>>>
>>> If we take the idea of not wasting a child's time to its logical
>>> extreme, we find some difficulties.  In a classroom setting, we
can't
>>> realistically eliminate any and all activities that might be wasting
>>> the time of any individual child.  Since classrooms contain a mix of
>>> children with a mix of abilities and interests, there will be times
>>> when the subject or activity is not completely appropriate for a
>>> particular child's abilities and needs.  My own feeling is that this
>>> can help a child to learn self discipline and self control :-),
>>> attributes that can help them in their later academic work and
>>> career.  It's a matter of degree.
>>>
>>> Carol
>>>
>>> At 11:28 AM 9/30/2011, you wrote:
>>>> Hi,
>>>> I am a TVI and blind myself. It is my experience that most TVI's
aren't 
>>>> really very well trained in the area of early childhood. Thus, they

>>>> find it difficult to come up with activities that really do develop

>>>> fine motor skills for blind children. Further, many of them don't 
>>>> actually know the alternative, nonvisual methods that blind
children 
>>>> will actually use to perform fine motor tasks, such as buttoning, 
>>>> snapping, zipping, tying, identifying coins, pouring, measuring
etc. so 
>>>> they don't know the precursors to those skills. Also, as many of
them 
>>>> are itinerant and must travel between schools, it is quite a
challenge 
>>>> to organise and carry all kinds of hands-on activities/equipment
for 
>>>> young blind children, replacing it often. So, it's not easy to do
it 
>>>> well under the usual circumstances of the included/mainstreamed,
young 
>>>> blind child needing fine motor skill development. It is much easier
at 
>>>> the end of a tiring day when the children are doing art to simply 
>>>> justify the blind child's coloring with nonsense about fine motor 
>>>> skills and inclusion.
>>>>
>>>> In my opinion, this nonsense about coloring is simply a result of 
>>>> teachers not knowing appropriate alternative activities. Holding a 
>>>> pencil is a very specific fine motor skill that benefits writing
for 
>>>> sighted writers. I have seen no evidence that it develops the kind
of 
>>>> finger eexterity and sensitivity, or strength for that matter, that

>>>> TVIs claim it does for blind children. It makes my blood absolutely

>>>> boil when I hear of children's time being wasted on such rubbish.
This 
>>>> is a skill that they will never use for anything. Yes, I've heard
the 
>>>> old "strengthening for the slate for the slate and stylus and the 
>>>> braille writer", but I'm a blind adult and I never had my time
wasted 
>>>> with coloring and I use my stylus and slate just fine. Also, the 
>>>> braille writer has three keys for each hand to push. If this
rediculous 
>>>> coloring is supposed to be so important for developing hand
strength, 
>>>> shouldn't the children be using a crayon or pencil in both hands?
How 
>>>> does it mystically develop strength in the hand not used to hold
the 
>>>> marker? This is clearly nonsense. Furthermore, Creative expression
is 
>>>> supposed to be part of art and, unless children are specifically 
>>>> Coloring as part of an activity such as a math worksheet - "color
the 
>>>> six dogs blue" - all the sighted children are expressing themselves

>>>> creatively. I cannot agree with denying blind children this
creative 
>>>> expression. When do they get to decide how their art will look?
>>>>
>>>> As for using coloring to justify inclusion this is perhaps the
silliest 
>>>> reason of all. The blind child clearly cannot color and all his 
>>>> classmates see his incompetence. worse, they see that, unlike all
of 
>>>> them who improve during the year, even with the help of an aide or 
>>>> teacher the blind child continues to be a pitifully bad colorer.
How 
>>>> can this be seen as a positive factor in the inclusion of a blind 
>>>> child. Does anyone imagine for a moment that the blind child
doesn't 
>>>> know that he can't color and that his coloring is worse than the
other 
>>>> children? Why is it that TVIs will force children to color, telling

>>>> them that they must learn to do what they don't like, but will not
push 
>>>> them in areas of independence, such as being organised or
travelling 
>>>> quickly down the hallway, even if they don't like doing so? these 
>>>> inconsistencies expose this coloring issue for the travesty is
really 
>>>> is.
>>>>
>>>> there are so many things that young blind children should be
learning. 
>>>> Threading, cutting, modelling, ripping, screwing - bolts & nuts,
jar 
>>>> lids/containers - paper folding and twisting, a million and one 
>>>> manipulative/construction toys designed to strengthen small
muscles. 
>>>> This coloring is just an excuse for lack of teacher versatility and

>>>> imaginativeness.
>>>>
>>>> I have actually attended IEP meetings where we have challenged the 
>>>> TVI's claims for coloring for blind children. When closely
questioned 
>>>> about their claims for its value, especially in reference to 
>>>> preparation for brailling when only one hand is actually being
used, 
>>>> and with reference to future use of this skill beyond signing one's

>>>> name in 10 years or so, they concede that it isn't really that
useful. 
>>>> We then get it specifically written into the IEP that this child
will 
>>>> "NOT be made to color with any medium for any reason. The child may
use 
>>>> a crayon to mark with a check mark when correcting their work".
Guess 
>>>> what, we have had to fight over it during the year, showing them
the 
>>>> IEP to get them to stop making the blind child use scented markers
in 
>>>> coloring; to stop them pretending to themselves that they are
somehow 
>>>> providing a meaningful art experience to a child who has no idea
what 
>>>> they're doing besides moving their hand randomly on the paper until
the 
>>>> aide says "yes, that's good." The fact that the TVI agrees in an
IEP 
>>>> meeting that it's meaningless as an art experience and inferior as
a 
>>>> fine motor development activity, and agrees to have it prohibited
in 
>>>> the IEP itself, and then proceeds to try to make a blind child
color in 
>>>> class when they think they can do so without anyone knowing, speaks
to 
>>>> me of the true nature of this activity.
>>>>
>>>> Can anyone tell that I am passionate about the topic of blind 
>>>> children's time being wasted by teachers making them color? If I
were a 
>>>> parent of a blind child being made to color, I would immediately
call 
>>>> an IEP meeting and have it written into the IEP that my child would
not 
>>>> be made to color in any medium under any circumstances. Naturally
they 
>>>> will argue but if you add up the time in any given week that your
child 
>>>> is wasting his young life coloring, you will be convinced it's
worth 
>>>> the trouble.
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>> Heather Field
>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Meng, Debi
>>>> Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2011 2:40 PM
>>>> To: Katie Cochrane ; NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List,(for parents of 
>>>> blind children)
>>>> Subject: Re: [blindkid] What are your thoughts on coloring?
>>>>
>>>> I did see the benefit at 3 and 4 but he should be beyond that.
Thanks 
>>>> for the advice.  I guess I need to find out what the goals are and
if 
>>>> we can achieve them in another way.
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: blindkid-bounces at nfbnet.org
[mailto:blindkid-bounces at nfbnet.org] 
>>>> On Behalf Of Katie Cochrane
>>>> Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2011 2:05 PM
>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List,(for parents of blind children)
>>>> Subject: Re: [blindkid] What are your thoughts on coloring?
>>>>
>>>> My son is 3, and they spend a lot of time on coloring, too.  He is 
>>>> totally blind.  Our TVI explained to me it is important to build
finger 
>>>> strength and dexterity for learning Braille, using a stylus to make

>>>> Braille notes later, etc.  They also want him to get used to 
>>>> participating in tasks just like the rest of the kids in the class.

>>>> They do a lot of coloring of raised line papers, and they put
textures 
>>>> under it.  We also have one of those musical coloring tablets (I
think 
>>>> it's from Crayola) where it plays music as you scribble...the
faster 
>>>> you scribble the faster the music plays. No matter what we do, it
is 
>>>> not his favorite task, either, but I think the reasons they gave
were 
>>>> reasonable. Have you asked your TVI what the reasons are for
focusing 
>>>> on coloring at this point in his education?  I know my son is
younger, 
>>>> but I would imagine all of these reasons will still be relevant
when he 
>>>> is in kindergarten.
>>>>
>>>> Take care.
>>>> Katie
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>
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