[blindkid] blindkid Digest, Vol 96, Issue 25
v_woodward at comcast.net
v_woodward at comcast.net
Mon Apr 30 18:24:19 UTC 2012
Heidi,
My daughter is 12 and blind from ROP as well. She does the same exact thing and reminding her only last for a few minutes or seconds if something is really exciting. She eye pokes to and we have had no luck with getting her to stop that as well.
I would love to hear feedback on how we may help them stop this unacceptable behavior.
Vickie
----- Original Message -----
From: blindkid-request at nfbnet.org
To: blindkid at nfbnet.org
Sent: Monday, April 30, 2012 1:00:50 PM
Subject: blindkid Digest, Vol 96, Issue 25
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Today's Topics:
1. rocking (hpscheffer at aol.com)
2. Re: rocking (Arielle Silverman)
3. Re: rocking (hpscheffer at aol.com)
4. Re: rocking (Dr. Denise M Robinson)
5. Technology question (Rosina Solano)
6. Re: rocking (hpscheffer at aol.com)
7. Re: Technology question (Tom and Deb OConnor)
8. Re: Technology question (hpscheffer at aol.com)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2012 10:12:51 -0400 (EDT)
From: hpscheffer at aol.com
To: blindkid at nfbnet.org
Subject: [blindkid] rocking
Message-ID: <8CEF4F276C4E8E3-8D4-123B1 at webmail-d075.sysops.aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Hi, I'm looking for suggestions or your feedback on how to help my daughter to stop rocking. She is gotten a lot better, but as some of you may know, when she gets excited or really into something she will do it without realizing it. I'm thinking we are missing something, because just reminding her does not do it. I've heard about the vestibular stimulation rocking will do for a blind person, but her OT and her PT have never worked with a blind child and they do not seem to have an answer. She is 12 and soon to be 13, she is blind from ROP.
Any information will be appreciated.
Heidi
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2012 08:44:44 -0600
From: Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com>
To: "Blind Kid Mailing List, (for parents of blind children)"
<blindkid at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [blindkid] rocking
Message-ID:
<CALAYQJC8gRD7yNk9BJBQrjp75TKxsLyEUDDre=ea9TDSHvR8aQ at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Hi Heidi and all,
I've posted on this topic before and I have some unconventional views
on the rocking issue. I don't think rocking while excited is an issue
of vestibular stimulation. Rather, we know that all people (blind and
sighted alike, of all ages) tend to instinctively move about in some
way when they get excited or passionate about something. However,
sighted people learn to express their feelings in specific ways by
watching those around them, such as using hand or body gestures. Those
of us who have been born blind have never seen these movements and so
instead of copying others around us, we engage in movements that make
instinctive sense. Rocking is an easy repetitive motion that requires
no observation in order to learn, so blind children pick it up. You're
right that reminders are not very effective because the rocking
happens just as automatically as "talking with one's hands" does. My
suggestion would be to talk with Heidi about this and try to teach her
something specific to do with her hands or body when she gets excited.
You could teach her some basic gestures to use while talking, or
perhaps she can learn to do some discreet movement, like wiggling her
toes, when she is excited or bored. Have her practice during normal
conversation. It will take a while but eventually she may start to
automatically use the new movements when she gets excited. Above all,
teaching blind children they aren't allowed to move their bodies at
all while in conversation is unrealistic and only sets them up for
shame or frustration. But giving them a real alternative to rocking
will address the underlying issue and empower them to overcome the
issue themselves. Best of luck.
Arielle
On 4/30/12, hpscheffer at aol.com <hpscheffer at aol.com> wrote:
> Hi, I'm looking for suggestions or your feedback on how to help my daughter
> to stop rocking. She is gotten a lot better, but as some of you may know,
> when she gets excited or really into something she will do it without
> realizing it. I'm thinking we are missing something, because just reminding
> her does not do it. I've heard about the vestibular stimulation rocking will
> do for a blind person, but her OT and her PT have never worked with a blind
> child and they do not seem to have an answer. She is 12 and soon to be 13,
> she is blind from ROP.
>
>
> Any information will be appreciated.
>
>
> Heidi
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindkid mailing list
> blindkid at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindkid_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindkid:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindkid_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2012 10:59:14 -0400 (EDT)
From: hpscheffer at aol.com
To: blindkid at nfbnet.org
Subject: Re: [blindkid] rocking
Message-ID: <8CEF4F8F140100B-8D4-12907 at webmail-d075.sysops.aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Thank you Arielle, this was very interesting. I know we are "missing" a piece here, and we actually have been talking about gestures, and body language, she has great movement and some postures that are very natural to her. I think I will explain to her your view, I'm sure it will make sense to her.
I appreciate your feedback.
Heidi
-----Original Message-----
From: Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com>
To: Blind Kid Mailing List, (for parents of blind children) <blindkid at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Mon, Apr 30, 2012 10:45 am
Subject: Re: [blindkid] rocking
Hi Heidi and all,
I've posted on this topic before and I have some unconventional views
on the rocking issue. I don't think rocking while excited is an issue
of vestibular stimulation. Rather, we know that all people (blind and
sighted alike, of all ages) tend to instinctively move about in some
way when they get excited or passionate about something. However,
sighted people learn to express their feelings in specific ways by
watching those around them, such as using hand or body gestures. Those
of us who have been born blind have never seen these movements and so
instead of copying others around us, we engage in movements that make
instinctive sense. Rocking is an easy repetitive motion that requires
no observation in order to learn, so blind children pick it up. You're
right that reminders are not very effective because the rocking
happens just as automatically as "talking with one's hands" does. My
suggestion would be to talk with Heidi about this and try to teach her
something specific to do with her hands or body when she gets excited.
You could teach her some basic gestures to use while talking, or
perhaps she can learn to do some discreet movement, like wiggling her
toes, when she is excited or bored. Have her practice during normal
conversation. It will take a while but eventually she may start to
automatically use the new movements when she gets excited. Above all,
teaching blind children they aren't allowed to move their bodies at
all while in conversation is unrealistic and only sets them up for
shame or frustration. But giving them a real alternative to rocking
will address the underlying issue and empower them to overcome the
issue themselves. Best of luck.
Arielle
On 4/30/12, hpscheffer at aol.com <hpscheffer at aol.com> wrote:
> Hi, I'm looking for suggestions or your feedback on how to help my daughter
> to stop rocking. She is gotten a lot better, but as some of you may know,
> when she gets excited or really into something she will do it without
> realizing it. I'm thinking we are missing something, because just reminding
> her does not do it. I've heard about the vestibular stimulation rocking will
> do for a blind person, but her OT and her PT have never worked with a blind
> child and they do not seem to have an answer. She is 12 and soon to be 13,
> she is blind from ROP.
>
>
> Any information will be appreciated.
>
>
> Heidi
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindkid mailing list
> blindkid at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindkid_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindkid:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindkid_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>
_______________________________________________
blindkid mailing list
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http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindkid_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindkid:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindkid_nfbnet.org/hpscheffer%40aol.com
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2012 08:15:20 -0700
From: "Dr. Denise M Robinson" <deniserob at gmail.com>
To: "Blind Kid Mailing List, (for parents of blind children)"
<blindkid at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [blindkid] rocking
Message-ID:
<CAAxsd_6Jh+7rMeUaqUD9RmjSn40FTKLsBeGJWN+17xxa-VFzkw at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Heidi
In addition to Arielle's comments---Role play with her so she knows exactly
what she should be doing. Put your words into action so she clearly
understands --I role play constantly with my students--in all areas.
Wearing a girl necklace around her neck all the time...or a chain boy
necklace...never take it off and rub it instead of moving--or a bracelet.
This works for my other rockers. Older girls or boys where cool glasses and
girls--makeup to help eye poking also.
Denise
On Mon, Apr 30, 2012 at 7:59 AM, <hpscheffer at aol.com> wrote:
> Thank you Arielle, this was very interesting. I know we are "missing" a
> piece here, and we actually have been talking about gestures, and body
> language, she has great movement and some postures that are very natural to
> her. I think I will explain to her your view, I'm sure it will make sense
> to her.
> I appreciate your feedback.
>
>
> Heidi
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com>
> To: Blind Kid Mailing List, (for parents of blind children) <
> blindkid at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Mon, Apr 30, 2012 10:45 am
> Subject: Re: [blindkid] rocking
>
>
> Hi Heidi and all,
> I've posted on this topic before and I have some unconventional views
> on the rocking issue. I don't think rocking while excited is an issue
> of vestibular stimulation. Rather, we know that all people (blind and
> sighted alike, of all ages) tend to instinctively move about in some
> way when they get excited or passionate about something. However,
> sighted people learn to express their feelings in specific ways by
> watching those around them, such as using hand or body gestures. Those
> of us who have been born blind have never seen these movements and so
> instead of copying others around us, we engage in movements that make
> instinctive sense. Rocking is an easy repetitive motion that requires
> no observation in order to learn, so blind children pick it up. You're
> right that reminders are not very effective because the rocking
> happens just as automatically as "talking with one's hands" does. My
> suggestion would be to talk with Heidi about this and try to teach her
> something specific to do with her hands or body when she gets excited.
> You could teach her some basic gestures to use while talking, or
> perhaps she can learn to do some discreet movement, like wiggling her
> toes, when she is excited or bored. Have her practice during normal
> conversation. It will take a while but eventually she may start to
> automatically use the new movements when she gets excited. Above all,
> teaching blind children they aren't allowed to move their bodies at
> all while in conversation is unrealistic and only sets them up for
> shame or frustration. But giving them a real alternative to rocking
> will address the underlying issue and empower them to overcome the
> issue themselves. Best of luck.
> Arielle
>
> On 4/30/12, hpscheffer at aol.com <hpscheffer at aol.com> wrote:
> > Hi, I'm looking for suggestions or your feedback on how to help my
> daughter
> > to stop rocking. She is gotten a lot better, but as some of you may know,
> > when she gets excited or really into something she will do it without
> > realizing it. I'm thinking we are missing something, because just
> reminding
> > her does not do it. I've heard about the vestibular stimulation rocking
> will
> > do for a blind person, but her OT and her PT have never worked with a
> blind
> > child and they do not seem to have an answer. She is 12 and soon to be
> 13,
> > she is blind from ROP.
> >
> >
> > Any information will be appreciated.
> >
> >
> > Heidi
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > blindkid mailing list
> > blindkid at nfbnet.org
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindkid_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > blindkid:
> >
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindkid_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindkid mailing list
> blindkid at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindkid_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindkid:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindkid_nfbnet.org/hpscheffer%40aol.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindkid mailing list
> blindkid at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindkid_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindkid:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindkid_nfbnet.org/deniserob%40gmail.com
>
--
Denise
Denise M. Robinson, TVI, Ph.D.
CEO, TechVision, LLC
Specialist in Technology/Training/Teaching for blind/low vision
509-674-1853
Website with hundreds of informational articles & lessons on PC, Office
products, Mac, iPad/iTools and more, all done with
keystrokes: www.yourtechvision.com
"The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who is
doing it." --Chinese Proverb
Computers are incredibly fast, accurate, and stupid: humans are incredibly
slow, inaccurate and brilliant; together they are powerful beyond
imagination.
--Albert Einstein
It's kind of fun to do the impossible.
--Walt Disney
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2012 08:30:02 -0700 (PDT)
From: Rosina Solano <colemangirly at yahoo.com>
To: blindkid at nfbnet.org
Subject: [blindkid] Technology question
Message-ID:
<1335799802.80061.YahooMailClassic at web111708.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Okay, I have a tech question for you older kids or parents out there.? We are tech deficient and stupid so hoping for input for you more experienced users.
?
What do you use your tech for?? For example do you find that you use your notetakers for writting assignments and such?? Do you use it for internet or do you use your laptop more for internet?? For those with smart phones, what do you use them for other than phones??
?
My son has a notetaker and uses it a little for school work, but it will get used lots more this coming year.? He is interested in getting his own email and maybe FB to stay in contact with his friends and some of his mentors.? I am thinking of getting him his own laptop, but JAWS is so expensive, does anyone use any cheaper programs?? What do you use them for?? He wants to keep in touch with his friends far away, and to play online games and look stuff up himself.? I am tech ignorant so don't even know what way to go.? I know all of the items can do this, but realistically what do you use for what applications.
?
I hope that I am not rambling;
?
Thanks;
Rosina, Missouri
?
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2012 11:32:57 -0400 (EDT)
From: hpscheffer at aol.com
To: blindkid at nfbnet.org
Subject: Re: [blindkid] rocking
Message-ID: <8CEF4FDA6EC0E28-8D4-12DE7 at webmail-d075.sysops.aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Thank you Denise, we did try the bracelet years ago, she would fiddle with it while rocking, and she no longer wanted to use it. But we may try it again.
Heidi
-----Original Message-----
From: Dr. Denise M Robinson <deniserob at gmail.com>
To: Blind Kid Mailing List, (for parents of blind children) <blindkid at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Mon, Apr 30, 2012 11:16 am
Subject: Re: [blindkid] rocking
Heidi
In addition to Arielle's comments---Role play with her so she knows exactly
what she should be doing. Put your words into action so she clearly
understands --I role play constantly with my students--in all areas.
Wearing a girl necklace around her neck all the time...or a chain boy
necklace...never take it off and rub it instead of moving--or a bracelet.
This works for my other rockers. Older girls or boys where cool glasses and
girls--makeup to help eye poking also.
Denise
On Mon, Apr 30, 2012 at 7:59 AM, <hpscheffer at aol.com> wrote:
> Thank you Arielle, this was very interesting. I know we are "missing" a
> piece here, and we actually have been talking about gestures, and body
> language, she has great movement and some postures that are very natural to
> her. I think I will explain to her your view, I'm sure it will make sense
> to her.
> I appreciate your feedback.
>
>
> Heidi
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com>
> To: Blind Kid Mailing List, (for parents of blind children) <
> blindkid at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Mon, Apr 30, 2012 10:45 am
> Subject: Re: [blindkid] rocking
>
>
> Hi Heidi and all,
> I've posted on this topic before and I have some unconventional views
> on the rocking issue. I don't think rocking while excited is an issue
> of vestibular stimulation. Rather, we know that all people (blind and
> sighted alike, of all ages) tend to instinctively move about in some
> way when they get excited or passionate about something. However,
> sighted people learn to express their feelings in specific ways by
> watching those around them, such as using hand or body gestures. Those
> of us who have been born blind have never seen these movements and so
> instead of copying others around us, we engage in movements that make
> instinctive sense. Rocking is an easy repetitive motion that requires
> no observation in order to learn, so blind children pick it up. You're
> right that reminders are not very effective because the rocking
> happens just as automatically as "talking with one's hands" does. My
> suggestion would be to talk with Heidi about this and try to teach her
> something specific to do with her hands or body when she gets excited.
> You could teach her some basic gestures to use while talking, or
> perhaps she can learn to do some discreet movement, like wiggling her
> toes, when she is excited or bored. Have her practice during normal
> conversation. It will take a while but eventually she may start to
> automatically use the new movements when she gets excited. Above all,
> teaching blind children they aren't allowed to move their bodies at
> all while in conversation is unrealistic and only sets them up for
> shame or frustration. But giving them a real alternative to rocking
> will address the underlying issue and empower them to overcome the
> issue themselves. Best of luck.
> Arielle
>
> On 4/30/12, hpscheffer at aol.com <hpscheffer at aol.com> wrote:
> > Hi, I'm looking for suggestions or your feedback on how to help my
> daughter
> > to stop rocking. She is gotten a lot better, but as some of you may know,
> > when she gets excited or really into something she will do it without
> > realizing it. I'm thinking we are missing something, because just
> reminding
> > her does not do it. I've heard about the vestibular stimulation rocking
> will
> > do for a blind person, but her OT and her PT have never worked with a
> blind
> > child and they do not seem to have an answer. She is 12 and soon to be
> 13,
> > she is blind from ROP.
> >
> >
> > Any information will be appreciated.
> >
> >
> > Heidi
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > blindkid mailing list
> > blindkid at nfbnet.org
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindkid_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > blindkid:
> >
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindkid_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindkid mailing list
> blindkid at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindkid_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindkid:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindkid_nfbnet.org/hpscheffer%40aol.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindkid mailing list
> blindkid at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindkid_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindkid:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindkid_nfbnet.org/deniserob%40gmail.com
>
--
Denise
Denise M. Robinson, TVI, Ph.D.
CEO, TechVision, LLC
Specialist in Technology/Training/Teaching for blind/low vision
509-674-1853
Website with hundreds of informational articles & lessons on PC, Office
products, Mac, iPad/iTools and more, all done with
keystrokes: www.yourtechvision.com
"The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who is
doing it." --Chinese Proverb
Computers are incredibly fast, accurate, and stupid: humans are incredibly
slow, inaccurate and brilliant; together they are powerful beyond
imagination.
--Albert Einstein
It's kind of fun to do the impossible.
--Walt Disney
_______________________________________________
blindkid mailing list
blindkid at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindkid_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindkid:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindkid_nfbnet.org/hpscheffer%40aol.com
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2012 12:09:54 -0400 (EDT)
From: Tom and Deb OConnor <toc6642 at charter.net>
To: "Blind Kid Mailing List, (for parents of blind children)"
<blindkid at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [blindkid] Technology question
Message-ID: <78bce249.10ce29.1370403eafa.Webtop.45 at charter.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed; delsp=no
NVDA is a free screen reading program that may be a good alternative to
JAWS for him now. Just type in NVDA and check out the site. Maybe his
vision teacher would be able to help him with this.
Tom & Debbie O'Connor
toc6642 at charter.net
On Mon, Apr 30, 2012 at 10:30 AM, Rosina Solano wrote:
> Okay, I have a tech question for you older kids or parents out there.?
> We are tech deficient and stupid so hoping for input for you more
> experienced users.
> ?
> What do you use your tech for?? For example do you find that you use
> your notetakers for writting assignments and such?? Do you use it for
> internet or do you use your laptop more for internet?? For those with
> smart phones, what do you use them for other than phones?? ?
> My son has a notetaker and uses it a little for school work, but it
> will get used lots more this coming year.? He is interested in getting
> his own email and maybe FB to stay in contact with his friends and
> some of his mentors.? I am thinking of getting him his own laptop, but
> JAWS is so expensive, does anyone use any cheaper programs?? What do
> you use them for?? He wants to keep in touch with his friends far
> away, and to play online games and look stuff up himself.? I am tech
> ignorant so don't even know what way to go.? I know all of the items
> can do this, but realistically what do you use for what applications.
> ?
> I hope that I am not rambling;
> ?
> Thanks;
> Rosina, Missouri
> ?
> _______________________________________________
> blindkid mailing list
> blindkid at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindkid_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindkid:
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindkid_nfbnet.org/toc6642%40charter.net
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2012 12:31:36 -0400 (EDT)
From: hpscheffer at aol.com
To: blindkid at nfbnet.org
Subject: Re: [blindkid] Technology question
Message-ID: <8CEF505D8AA19E8-8D4-135DF at webmail-d075.sysops.aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
My daughter should be the one writing you, but as a quick one. She loves anything apple, iphone, ipad, macbook, and anything i that she can find. On the iphone as with any apple device, like the ipad, there is a voice over feature that makes it real easy to use. She can text, it reads texts back, she can surf the internet, listen to music or download apps, play games, and anything else that is "in" right now. She thought herself how to use it, figuring it out was not hard. Denise has a great site called www.yourtechvision.com I use for consulting and has great information.
Have fun,
Heidi
-----Original Message-----
From: Rosina Solano <colemangirly at yahoo.com>
To: blindkid <blindkid at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Mon, Apr 30, 2012 12:06 pm
Subject: [blindkid] Technology question
Okay, I have a tech question for you older kids or parents out there. We are
tech deficient and stupid so hoping for input for you more experienced users.
What do you use your tech for? For example do you find that you use your
notetakers for writting assignments and such? Do you use it for internet or do
you use your laptop more for internet? For those with smart phones, what do you
use them for other than phones?
My son has a notetaker and uses it a little for school work, but it will get
used lots more this coming year. He is interested in getting his own email and
maybe FB to stay in contact with his friends and some of his mentors. I am
thinking of getting him his own laptop, but JAWS is so expensive, does anyone
use any cheaper programs? What do you use them for? He wants to keep in touch
with his friends far away, and to play online games and look stuff up himself.
I am tech ignorant so don't even know what way to go. I know all of the items
can do this, but realistically what do you use for what applications.
I hope that I am not rambling;
Thanks;
Rosina, Missouri
_______________________________________________
blindkid mailing list
blindkid at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindkid_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindkid:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindkid_nfbnet.org/hpscheffer%40aol.com
------------------------------
_______________________________________________
blindkid mailing list
blindkid at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindkid_nfbnet.org
End of blindkid Digest, Vol 96, Issue 25
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