[blindkid] Signs ETC

Arielle Silverman arielle71 at gmail.com
Wed Feb 27 15:45:18 UTC 2013


The silent car issue doesn't magically disappear when blind kids
become blind adults and are no longer protected by "blind child"
signs. What happens then? We train them the best we can to be careful,
attentive pedestrians, to come to a full stop and listen before
crossing the street, to cross the street efficiently at the beginning
of a green light rather than stepping out mid-cycle, etc. All those
techniques reduce the odds of colliding with a quiet car though they
don't eliminate it altogether. Nor does the issue of eye
contact/gesturing disappear in adulthood either, but again, cautionand
attention reduce the chances of a dangerous encounter. That's the best
we can do.
Arielle

On 2/27/13, Richard Holloway <rholloway at gopbc.org> wrote:
> Perhaps calling the police and having such persons arrested for assault,
> malicious mischief, or the like would be a more appropriate approach than
> removing cautionary signs for drivers.
>
> By your logic, we would be better off still taking our kids white canes away
> along with the signs, or better yet, just keep kids in the house under lock
> and key.
>
> And again, I ask how we should train our kids to detect an ever growing
> number of nearly silent cars on our roadways.
>
> On Feb 27, 2013, at 9:40 AM, Peter Donahue wrote:
>
>> Good morning everyone,
>>
>>    If the sign draws the attention of neighborhood bullies and others who
>>
>> take delight in harassing blind children by throwing objects and all the
>> other mean things such brats do all children on that street are in danger.
>>
>> "Train blind kids, forget the signs!"
>>
>> Peter Donahue
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Julie Yanez" <jyanez112 at gmail.com>
>> To: "Support For The Blind:)" <blindkid at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2013 12:06 AM
>> Subject: Re: [blindkid] Signs ETC
>>
>>
>> I thought this was all in reference to a dead end private street in which
>> this family will be residing in for years. Such streets are usually
>> flooded
>> with children because of its open, less trafficked space. And for someone
>> not aware of the area, I think a sigh at the beginning of the street is
>> not
>> a bad idea.
>> This is supposed to be a place where parents and fellow blind can ask for
>> opinions and advice.  Not be crucified for a suggestion or put on trial
>> for
>> their parenting. Even I let my blind daughter play with others in the
>> dead
>> end street so she'll have a sense of normalcy and not feel sheltered from
>> the world. All this madness has gone on long enough already. Ill
>> defendantly be putting my notifications on silent till this is all over.
>> On Feb 26, 2013 9:37 PM, "Heather Field" <missheather at comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Hello all,
>>> If a child, blind or sighted, cannot be trusted to act reliably playing
>>> or
>>> crossing busy streets unsupervised, then they need to be supervised  by
>>> a
>>> responsible adult who knows the child's developmental level and
>>> likelihood
>>> of putting themselves in danger. The adult can then prevent the child
>>> from
>>> injury. When the child, blind or sighted, is developmentally mature
>>> enough
>>> to play beside busy streets, then they do not need supervision. The
>>> issue
>>> of signs warning others that a child who is blind sometimes plays in
>>> this
>>> street doesn't factor into the equation as I see it. Irrespective of the
>>> child's age or amount of vision, if they are likely to put themselves in
>>> danger with traffic then I do not let them play near it unsupervised.
>>> Unfortunately, special signs do inform the public that blind people need
>>> "special" treatment and employers generally don't differentiate between
>>> the
>>> blind children referred to by the signs and the blind adults whom they
>>> don't want to employ. While we know that blind does not mean inferior, a
>>> large percentage of society does not, or does not believe our claim. So,
>>> while such signs appear to afford some parents a feeling of having done
>>> a
>>> positive thing to protect their child, any actual gains for the
>>> child--which I have never been able to identify in my discussions on
>>> this
>>> topic--are far outweighed by the reinforcement of negative stereotypes
>>> about the abilities of the blind to keep themselves safe. I simply see
>>> it
>>> as a child issue; children who aren't yet able to keep themselves safe
>>> need
>>> another adult to keep them safe; blindness is not the issue but
>>> maturity,
>>> skills and experience using them. I have thoroughly enjoyed this
>>> discussion
>>> and, I believe, it has been great for us all to look at what we believe
>>> and
>>> why we believe it. Having read everything posted so far, and considered
>>> it
>>> very thoughtfully, I have to say that I have still not been convinced
>>> that
>>> street safety is a blindness issue, nor that the safety of blind
>>> children
>>> can be improved by something like a "blind child at play" sign. I have,
>>> on
>>> the other hand, seen the influence that signs publicly proclaiming
>>> blindness as a reason for others to behave in ways that imply they are
>>> responsible for the blind person's safety can have, and this is a
>>> negative,
>>> not a positive influence. I really want to thank everyone for sharing
>>> their
>>> perspectives, it really has been a great exchange so far.
>>> Warmly,
>>> Heather Field
>>>
>>> -----Original Message----- From: Richard Holloway
>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2013 10:01 PM
>>> To: Blind Kid Mailing List,(for parents of blind children)
>>> Subject: Re: [blindkid] Signs ETC
>>>
>>> Right, by all means, let's train these kids, and until they are trained
>>> let them risk the dangers of traffic. Survival of the fittest may just
>>> come
>>> into play, right? Probably my child DESERVES to be hit by a car if she
>>> stands in the road and fails to move out of the way of a car. And how
>>> dare
>>> someone's blind two year old try to play with the sighted kids in the
>>> neighborhood before he has been properly trained as well. Is that what
>>> you
>>> are suggesting? I think you're right-- these blind kids just don't know
>>> their place.
>>>
>>> I'm very sorry if you feel stigmatized by what some parents do to
>>> protect
>>> their own blind children, but that is not a reason which motivates me to
>>> put my child at the slightest bit of enhanced risk in her own
>>> neighborhood.
>>>
>>> -RH
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Feb 26, 2013, at 10:46 PM, Mary Donahue wrote:
>>>
>>> Good evening again everyone,
>>>>
>>>> The sentiment against the use of anything that stigmatizes the blind
>>>> as incapable and unable to travel safely is very much alive and well in
>>>> this
>>>> organization. This was strongly evident in 1987 when we picketed the
>>>> Lighthouse of the Palm Beaches in West Palm Beach Florida during the
>>>> NAC
>>>> demonstration. That year NAC met in Fort Lauderdale. In addition to
>>>> picketing the NAC meetings themselves we would picket NAC-accredited
>>>> agencies for the blind in the area. Since the Lighthouse of the Palm
>>>> beaches
>>>> operated a sheltered workshop and regularly paid its blind workers less
>>>> than
>>>> the Federal minimum wage and was accredited by NAC they were a target
>>>> for
>>>> one of our protests that year.
>>>>
>>>> Both of us walked the picket line that year. It was quickly
>>>> discovered that in addition to the audio pedestrian signal at the
>>>> intersection near the lighthouse there were several "Blind Pedestrian"
>>>> signs
>>>> throughout the area. Whenever the APS which was a bell sounded we
>>>> chanted
>>>> "When the blind are taught well we don't need a bell!" we let out boos
>>>> that
>>>> could be heard for miles around! Another chant that resounded through
>>>> the
>>>> picket line was "Train the blind, get rid of the sign!" We know because
>>>>
>>>> we
>>>> were there!
>>>>
>>>> This is further proof that anything that draws unnecessary attention
>>>> to our blindness is highly undesirable and in the long run creates more
>>>> problems than it solves.    Federationists from around the country
>>>> gathered
>>>> in Florida and in other locations to let our voices be heard. NAC
>>>> tracking
>>>> was fun. Both of us took part in several NAC demonstrations including
>>>> the
>>>> one in Florida. Those words are still true today as they were back
>>>> then.
>>>> "Train the blind, get rid of the sign!"
>>>>
>>>> Peter and Mary Donahue
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: blindkid
>>>> [mailto:blindkid-bounces@**nfbnet.org<blindkid-bounces at nfbnet.org>]
>>>> On Behalf Of Peter
>>>> Donahue
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2013 8:41 PM
>>>> To: Blind Kid Mailing List, (for parents of blind children)
>>>> Subject: Re: [blindkid] Signs for Susan
>>>>
>>>> Good evening everyone,
>>>>
>>>>   I heard that we never could get a resolution passed concerning
>>>> dining-in-the-dark, but one was successfully passed last summer in
>>>> Dallas.
>>>> The convention ultimately decides which resolutions are adopted and
>>>> which
>>>> will not. We have taken stands on other types of programs and behaviors
>>>> that
>>>> stigmatize blind people and have adopted resolutions concerning many of
>>>> them. Perhaps it's time that a position concerning the use of "Blind
>>>> Child/Pedestrian" signs is brought to the convention for consideration.
>>>> All
>>>> the best.
>>>>
>>>> Peter Donahue
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Arielle Silverman" <arielle71 at gmail.com>
>>>> To: "Blind Kid Mailing List,(for parents of blind children)"
>>>> <blindkid at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2013 7:52 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [blindkid] Signs for Susan
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hi all,
>>>> As my (hopefully) last post on this topic, I would just like to make
>>>> the observation that all the former blind children on this list who
>>>> chose to comment expressed opposition to putting up "blind child"
>>>> signs as opposed to "child at play" signs. That is, all the blind
>>>> adults on this list who have personal experience growing up blind
>>>> oppose use of the signs. (Albert, since you said you have only been
>>>> blind for seven years, I am assuming that you lost your sight in
>>>> adulthood-correct me if I am wrong). I think this sentiment among
>>>> former blind children is something worth considering if you find
>>>> yourself grappling with this decision. We can argue about whether or
>>>> not the signs confer benefit to a blind child or if they actually
>>>> address risks blind children experience that sighted children do not
>>>> experience. But we also need to keep in mind that the potential stigma
>>>> and self-esteem threat posed by a blind-child sign is a real problem
>>>> that former blind children have picked up on. As former blind children
>>>> we know what it is like to be told, directly or indirectly, that
>>>> blindness is an inferior condition of being, or to be labeled as
>>>> different in the eyes of others. A sign is a label saying that someone
>>>> is blind and therefore deserving of special treatment. Perhaps this is
>>>> justified in certain situations, perhaps not, but either way it is
>>>> stigmatizing and threatening to one's sense of positive identity. I
>>>> know you want to keep your children safe, but I also think you want to
>>>> raise children who are ultimately comfortable with themselves and OK
>>>> with their blindness. I think it's important to keep both of those
>>>> things in mind when deciding whether or not to get a sign or to do any
>>>> number of things that call special attention to a blind child. While I
>>>> don't personally support an NFB resolution to oppose signs and am
>>>> confident such a resolution would not pass, I do think that former
>>>> blind children need to be consulted when evaluating these kinds of
>>>> accommodations. I think that is one of the great things about NOPBC.
>>>> Similarly, I think that people in the deaf community, and especially
>>>> those who were once deaf children, are the best ones to comment on the
>>>> benefits and risks of "deaf child" signs. I'm glad this topic was
>>>> brought up as, to be honest, I didn't even know such signs existed
>>>> before we began this discussion.
>>>> Best,
>>>> Arielle
>>>>
>>>> On 2/26/13, Rene Harrell <rjharrell at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Richard,
>>>>>
>>>>> I think you did an excellent job of outlining risks and concerns. :) I
>>>>> simply struggle with understanding how it translates in the practical
>>>>> reality of a sign. Unless your child is carrying a cane, her
>>>>> disability
>>>>> is
>>>>> INVISIBLE to the drivers coming down the road. They have no way to
>>>>> discern
>>>>> if your child is the Blind one that the sign refers to, or whether or
>>>>> not
>>>>> to treat every child walking down the road as if they might be the
>>>>> blind
>>>>> one. All they know is that there might be a blind child in the area
>>>>> but
>>>>> without a way of identifying a blind child, there is no way for them
>>>>> to
>>>>> see
>>>>> a 10 year old walking down the street and prepare themselves for the
>>>>> chance
>>>>> they might veer off into the road unexpectedly. As a driver then, I am
>>>>> not
>>>>> looking at your 10 year old and being any more careful about them than
>>>>> I
>>>>> would for any other ten year old, even with the "Blind Child" sign.
>>>>>
>>>>> If your child is carrying a cane, then I don't need a Blind Child sign
>>>>>
>>>>> to
>>>>> recognize that your child is blind and to be extra vigilant about her
>>>>> crossing the road. Everywhere Clare goes with her cane, and when we
>>>>> are
>>>>> crossing roads, when drivers see that she is carrying a cane they
>>>>> assume
>>>>> the responsibility of being more aware of themselves and their
>>>>> driving.
>>>>> Most of them probably have no idea that white cane laws exist. This is
>>>>> how
>>>>> we safely navigate areas with no such sign in sight.
>>>>>
>>>>> Same thing with "deaf child" and "autistic child" signs. When there is
>>>>>
>>>>> no
>>>>> way to actually differentiate the child who is the reason for the
>>>>> sign,
>>>>> you
>>>>> have no way discernible way to know for whom to be vigilant *for*. The
>>>>> sign
>>>>> then actually provides no benefit if you can't figure out *who* it is
>>>>> that
>>>>> is requiring this caution. If I see a 10 year old walking by the "deaf
>>>>> child sign" but he doesn't "appear" deaf to me, then I am not going to
>>>>> presume he's deaf.
>>>>>
>>>>> I am not meaning to insult any one for choosing to use such a sign, and
>>>>>
>>>>> I
>>>>> don't think any one needs to feel guilty, shamed, or browbeaten for
>>>>> choosing to something they believe protects their child's safety,  nor
>>>>> needs to apologize for it. That was in no way the intent of my
>>>>> original
>>>>> post on this topic, and I apologize if my words came across in that
>>>>> manner.
>>>>> When determining this for ourselves, I ultimately concluded that
>>>>> people
>>>>> may
>>>>> not be able to identify my blind child if she were outside without her
>>>>> cane, but people CAN readily identify children. As I happen to have
>>>>> six
>>>>> young children, it is far more practical that people know to keep
>>>>> aware
>>>>> for
>>>>> little ones in general than my blind child in specific, and with her
>>>>> cane
>>>>> she would require no extra explanation that she is blind. Therefore,
>>>>> when
>>>>> the town wanted to put up a "BLIND CHILD" sign we declined, but my
>>>>> when
>>>>> across the street neighbor told me that he shifted a couple of signs
>>>>> he
>>>>> put
>>>>> up around my next door neighbor's house back when they had four small
>>>>> kids
>>>>> so that they encompassed my house, I smiled and said "thank you". As
>>>>> it
>>>>> is,
>>>>> we live on the corner of a half-forgotten street that dead ends into
>>>>> an
>>>>> even smaller and more forgotten street with only four additional
>>>>> houses.
>>>>> The road is so narrow that only one car can be on it at a time and if
>>>>> there
>>>>> are two cars going in opposite directions, one needs to pull off in a
>>>>> neighbor's yard for the other one to pass by. We have a couple of
>>>>> teenagers
>>>>> in the back who like to hot-rod their way down the road and have
>>>>> friends
>>>>> who like to do the same, but they know us personally because the
>>>>> neighborhood is incredibly small, and they keep a watchful eye for my
>>>>> kids
>>>>> in our yard. I think in reality, even the "Children at Play" sign does
>>>>> nothing practical, but as they were already there, I saw no harm in
>>>>> keeping
>>>>> them.
>>>>>
>>>>> Rene--- mom to six amazing kids, including Miss Clare age 11 (ROP) and
>>>>> Seraphina, 8 months (ONH)
>>>>> On Tue, Feb 26, 2013 at 4:41 PM, Albert J Rizzi
>>>>> <albert at myblindspot.org>wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Amen and testify Richard. Great post.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: blindkid
>>>>>> [mailto:blindkid-bounces@**nfbnet.org<blindkid-bounces at nfbnet.org>]
>>>>>> On Behalf Of Richard
>>>>>> Holloway
>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2013 6:05 PM
>>>>>> To: Blind Kid Mailing List, (for parents of blind children)
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindkid] Signs for Susan
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Steve, I appreciate your question. I'm happy to discuss these
>>>>>> matters.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Purely from a driver's standpoint, I expect different reactions from
>>>>>> different situations in a driving environment. In that specific
>>>>>> example,
>>>>>> certainly, if the kids were going to be playing, particularly in a
>>>>>> location
>>>>>> where there were limited range of vision for a driver, either sign
>>>>>> would
>>>>>> be
>>>>>> appropriate and helpful. In that specific case, kids are indeed
>>>>>> playing.
>>>>>> If,
>>>>>> as a driver, you're in an alert status, looking for either "kids at
>>>>>> play",
>>>>>> or a "blind child" you'll probably react safely, so in that case I
>>>>>> suggest
>>>>>> either sign might be helpful.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Now, put a blind child near the street in a yard or on a sidewalk. I
>>>>>> might
>>>>>> actually expect ANY two-year-old to dart in any direction virtually
>>>>>> randomly, so I would slow down, especially if I didn't see an adult
>>>>>> holding
>>>>>> such a child's hand. But make the child a bit older. 5 or 6 perhaps.
>>>>>> A
>>>>>> kid
>>>>>> that age, I believe, would be less likely to jump out in traffic. By
>>>>>> that
>>>>>> age, I more expect kids to be chasing balls without looking, but
>>>>>> otherwise
>>>>>> reasonably attentive. Blind kids at that age, or at least my blind
>>>>>> daughter
>>>>>> was probably MORE likely to bolt into the street than at a more
>>>>>> docile
>>>>>> age
>>>>>> 2
>>>>>> or 3. By 6 or 7, she was much more driven to abrupt movement, yet not
>>>>>>
>>>>>> at
>>>>>> all
>>>>>> clear about the concept of cars coming down the street.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Now as a 4th grader, my daughter is perhaps slightly less likely to
>>>>>> do
>>>>>> something abrupt than at age 6, but still FAR more likely than her
>>>>>> sighted
>>>>>> peers to walk arbitrarily into the street if she looses her bearings.
>>>>>> This
>>>>>> sort of situation is NOT what "child at play" brings to mind.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> When driving, if I see a 10 or 12-year-old walking in a straight line
>>>>>> across
>>>>>> the street, I would not anticipate the child making a sharp turn or
>>>>>> reversal. Most sighted kids I know don't generally do that. My blind
>>>>>> 10-year-old daughter certainly might. Again, from a car driver's
>>>>>> perspective, my daughter's behavior is not what is typical from a
>>>>>> child
>>>>>> her
>>>>>> age. A confused driver is, in my opinion, a good deal more likely do
>>>>>> do
>>>>>> something dangerous in that sort of situation. I think knowing she's
>>>>>> blind,
>>>>>> might keep her safer from that driver, if only slightly so.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Most important to me, again, as a driver, I often make eye contact or
>>>>>> exchange gestures with people on the road. I don't know how universal
>>>>>> that
>>>>>> is. Maybe it is a regional thing. Down south, we wave to say "thanks"
>>>>>> when
>>>>>> a
>>>>>> driver lets us merge in front of them, and in fact failing to wave is
>>>>>> often
>>>>>> taken as an insult. We wave people-- both kids and adults, across the
>>>>>> street
>>>>>> all the time, or the pedestrian may wave off the driver. The exchange
>>>>>>
>>>>>> is
>>>>>> a
>>>>>> very visual business. I slow down sometimes and wait for eye contact
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> feel
>>>>>> as sure as I can that I'm aware of a pedestrian's intention. Well if
>>>>>> you
>>>>>> "make eye contact with my daughter" what you inferred isn't going to
>>>>>> be
>>>>>> very
>>>>>> accurate. I can just imagine the later discussion-- "I saw her, she
>>>>>> looked
>>>>>> right AT me, then she walked right in front of my car!!! I had no
>>>>>> idea
>>>>>> she
>>>>>> couldn't see me! I'm so sorry!!!" I feel ill at just the notion.
>>>>>> That's
>>>>>> what
>>>>>> I want to avoid with such signs. "Child at Play" is no help there.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In my opinion, in my situation here, I think that if we were not on
>>>>>> SUCH
>>>>>> a
>>>>>> quiet street, I would have already requested signs to protect my
>>>>>> daughter
>>>>>> and minimize potential driver frustration, however, our street is
>>>>>> really
>>>>>> VERY quiet, and we watch our daughter very carefully.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> With that said, she's old enough that at some point, I'm going to
>>>>>> have
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> give her a little more freedom near the road. If I decide she's not
>>>>>> 100%
>>>>>> safe, I reserve the right to request such a sign. I don't want a lot
>>>>>> of
>>>>>> flack if I do so.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As I think I mentioned before, I feel like a deaf child could easily
>>>>>> react
>>>>>> differently as well. If the parents of a deaf child are worried the
>>>>>> child
>>>>>> won't hear certain sounds and it puts them at increased risk, from a
>>>>>> driver's standpoint, I like to know that someone won't react to the
>>>>>> warning
>>>>>> of a horn, for example. In that case, I'd prefer a "deaf child" sign.
>>>>>> The
>>>>>> information is more specific; more useful to keep the child safe.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The differences are subtle, but important. I think this is a personal
>>>>>> choice
>>>>>> for each parent, and it really concerns me that pressure of any kind
>>>>>> is
>>>>>> being exerted by others to avoid somehow casting aspersions on the
>>>>>> blind
>>>>>> population by requesting these signs.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> With that said, I also think this is a personal choice for a blind
>>>>>> adult
>>>>>> as
>>>>>> well-- a choice the adult makes for himself, mind you. I think what
>>>>>> happened
>>>>>> in Colorado was really inappropriate, because others were deciding
>>>>>> this
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> the blind travelers. That doesn't mean if some adults feel safer with
>>>>>> these
>>>>>> signs in place that they should be prevented because it reflects
>>>>>> poorly
>>>>>> on
>>>>>> those who don't want the signs. If others disagree, but I feel it is
>>>>>> pest
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> err to the side of caution.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The social connection you mention is great. If added safety, no
>>>>>> matter
>>>>>> how
>>>>>> little it may be, from the sign helps some parents feel slightly more
>>>>>> comfortable letting kids have a little more freedom to play or
>>>>>> otherwise
>>>>>> go
>>>>>> about their business, that does indeed increase the chance for these
>>>>>> very
>>>>>> important connections.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I will add one thing more as well. After giving this a lot of thought,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I
>>>>>> think such signs do one thing more. After more than 10 years of
>>>>>> observing
>>>>>> and watching reactions to the "what are you doing letting your blind
>>>>>> child
>>>>>> go and do dangerous things like that" mentality-- crazy things like
>>>>>> riding
>>>>>> a
>>>>>> bike, jumping into a pool without a sighted helper holding onto her,
>>>>>> playing
>>>>>> in and around trampolines, running across the yard, going to
>>>>>> gymnastics
>>>>>> classes or yoga classes... maybe some of us like the idea of telling
>>>>>> others
>>>>>> that our kids may be out there and we know it, and they have every
>>>>>> right
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> be there, yet we'd appreciate it if they'd be just a little bit extra
>>>>>> careful in case their behavior or reaction to a passing car is a
>>>>>> little
>>>>>> different. I'm not inviting a great debate on this matter, and the
>>>>>> last
>>>>>> part
>>>>>> (this paragraph) is just a thought that recently occurred to me, but
>>>>>> I
>>>>>> think
>>>>>> maybe there is a touch of truth in that for some of us as well.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks again for the discussion.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Richard
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Feb 26, 2013, at 2:09 PM, Steve Jacobson wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Richard,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> While you and I seem to disagree on this, I would truly like to
>>>>>>> understand your position better.  Are you really saying that the
>>>>>>> two-year-old sighted kids that are racing with her child are totally
>>>>>>> responsible and in need of no protection?  If there is no separation
>>>>>>> between the street and where these kids are playing, I do not see
>>>>>>> how
>>>>>>> a blind child is going to be at a greater risk, there is some risk
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> all of them and a warning that there are children at play is
>>>>>>> probably
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> appropriate.  Connecting her ability to get a sign with the child's
>>>>>> opportunity to play with other kids completely baffles me.  .  The
>>>>>> solution
>>>>>> isn't in the sign, it is in making the social connections, and I,
>>>>>> too,
>>>>>> am
>>>>>> glad to see that Susan's child, certainly with her help, made those
>>>>>> connections, but I truly do not see that a sign is necessary to make
>>>>>> that
>>>>>> possible.  Have I misunderstood your note?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Steve Jacobson
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Mon, 25 Feb 2013 23:09:07 -0500, Richard Holloway wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Susan,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I don't see anything wrong with requesting such a sign for your
>>>>>>> child
>>>>>>>> at that age, or at any age where you, the parent, feel it
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> is appropriate.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You did a good thing. More parents should find solutions to get
>>>>>>> their
>>>>>>>> kids, be they sighted or blind, out and playing in
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> situations like that!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> (How I wish they'd had jeeps like that when I was a kid!!!)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Richard
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Feb 25, 2013, at 8:39 PM, SUSAN POLANSKY wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We moved on to a dead end court when our son was 2. We asked our
>>>>>>>>> town for a sign at the entrance to the street. I feel it was
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> totally appropriate to have a sign when our little one was out
>>>>>>>> playing
>>>>>>> with the other kids and basically drag racing the other little ones
>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>> his toddler jeep. Would we not have asked for a sign if he had been
>>>>>>> older. Each parent needs to look at their child and their
>>>>>>> neighborhood
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> make their own decision. I think this subject has been beaten to
>>>>>> death.
>>>>>> No
>>>>>> more "to sign or not to sign"  emails for me, any more will be
>>>>>> deleted
>>>>>> without opening.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Susan T. Polansky
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ______________________________**__
>>>>>>>>> From: Bernadette Jacobs <bernienfb75 at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>> To: "Blind Kid Mailing List, (for parents of blind children)"
>>>>>>>>> <blindkid at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, February 25, 2013 8:11 PM
>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindkid] To Sign or not To Sign
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I am a very strong opponent of blind, deaf, Autism, or any other
>>>>>>>>> signage.  None of us needs to be put on that kind of display!
>>>>>>>>> Only
>>>>>>>>> thing this says to me is, "Walking Target!" Target!" Walking
>>>>>>>>> Target.
>>>>>>>>> When I had my hysterectomy at an inner city hospital here, when I
>>>>>>>>> came out of surgery and into my room, my husband mentioned to me
>>>>>>>>> that there was a sign on my door, "Blind Patient!"  If I wasn't
>>>>>>>>> sick
>>>>>>>>> enough from just having had surgery, I sure was sickened then.
>>>>>>>>> So,
>>>>>>>>> my husband tore down the first sign.  Bright and early next
>>>>>>>>> morning
>>>>>>>>> when he came in vack in to visit me, another signed had replaced
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> first one.  He went out to find that nurse.  Before long, suddenly
>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>> heard the nurse arguing with my husband.  I forced myself up out
>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>> bed, grabbed my cane and began walking down the hall, holding onto
>>>>>>>>> the rails for dear life and simply excused myself quietly and then
>>>>>>>>> proceeded to waste no bones about how that woman oughtta do
>>>>>>>>> something real quick.  After all, who was her bread and butta???
>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>> had insurance.  I didn't feel guilty in the least.  She turned on
>>>>>>>>> me
>>>>>>>>> and I simply went back to my room; called my doctor at his home;
>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>> Hmmm!  For some strange reason I never heard from or saw that
>>>>>>>>> woman
>>>>>>>>> again and the sign soon disappeared.  Then when someone called
>>>>>>>>> weeks
>>>>>>>>> after I had been released from the hospital to ask me about how I
>>>>>>>>> felt about my hospital experience, I really laid it on thick that
>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> post blind signs, or any other Special Needs' sign, would only
>>>>>>>>> serve
>>>>>>>>> to identify those individuals as vulnerable walking targets and no
>>>>>>>>> matter what the intent, it was truly a bad idea.  After all, Seems
>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>> actually remember Dr. Jernigan saying once, that "The road to Hell
>>>>>>>>> is paved with good intentions."  I'm sure I need not say more.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Bernie
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 2/22/13, Carly B <barnesraiser at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Hi Merry-Noel,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I've thought about this, too. There are a couple of signs on
>>>>>>>>>> streets near our own. We have not pursued trying to get a sign
>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>> our neighborhood. I haven't really thought that through, I think
>>>>>>>>>> it's just a gut feeling that I don't want to put more of a
>>>>>>>>>> spotlight
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>> my child than there already is.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Know what I mean? I'm not really sure the benefits of having a
>>>>>>>>>> sign...
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Thanks for bringing it up. I look forward to hearing what others
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> think!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> :) Carolynn
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Feb 22, 2013 at 7:40 PM, Merry-Noel Chamberlain
>>>>>>>>>> <owinm at yahoo.com>wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>>>>> My daughter, Ashleah, is working on a girl scout project and
>>>>>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>>>>>> like to know your thoughts about the "Special Needs" sign.  She
>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>> blind and walks to and from school independently.  Do you think
>>>>>>>>>>> having a Special Needs sign by our house is a good thing?  Why
>>>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>>> why not?
>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>>>>>>> Merry-Noel
>>>>>>>>>>> ______________________________**_________________
>>>>>>>>>>> blindkid mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>> blindkid at nfbnet.org
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>>>>>>>>>>> info
>>>>>>>>>>> for
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>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/blindkid_nfbnet.org/**
>>>>>>>>>>> barnesraiser<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindkid_nfbnet.org/barnesraiser>
>>>>>>>>>>> %40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> ______________________________**_________________
>>>>>>>>>> blindkid mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> blindkid at nfbnet.org
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>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>>>> for
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>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/blindkid_nfbnet.org/**
>>>>>>>>>> bernienfb75%4
>>>>>>>>>> 0gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ______________________________**_________________
>>>>>>>>> blindkid mailing list
>>>>>>>>> blindkid at nfbnet.org
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>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> blindkid:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/blindkid_nfbnet.org/**
>>>>>>>>> sepolansky%40v<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindkid_nfbnet.org/sepolansky%40v>
>>>>>>>>> erizon.net ______________________________**_________________
>>>>>>>>> blindkid mailing list
>>>>>>>>> blindkid at nfbnet.org
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>>>>>>>>> rholloway%40go<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindkid_nfbnet.org/rholloway%40go>
>>>>>>>>> pbc.org
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ______________________________**_________________
>>>>>>>> blindkid mailing list
>>>>>>>> blindkid at nfbnet.org
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>>>>>>> blindkid:
>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>> steve.jacobson%
>>>>>>>> 40visi.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ______________________________**_________________
>>>>>>> blindkid mailing list
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>>>>>>> rholloway%40gopb<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindkid_nfbnet.org/rholloway%40gopb>
>>>>>>> c.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ______________________________**_________________
>>>>>> blindkid mailing list
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>>>>>> blindkid:
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>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/blindkid_nfbnet.org/**
>>>> albert%40myblindspot.o<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindkid_nfbnet.org/albert%40myblindspot.o>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> rg<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/blindkid_nfbnet.org/**
>>>> albert%40myblindspo<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindkid_nfbnet.org/albert%40myblindspo>
>>>> t.o%0Arg>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----
>>>>>> No virus found in this message.
>>>>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>>>>> Version: 2013.0.2899 / Virus Database: 2639/6119 - Release Date:
>>>>>> 02/20/13
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ______________________________**_________________
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>>>> rjharrell%40gmail.com<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindkid_nfbnet.org/rjharrell%40gmail.com>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> " I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended
>>>>>
>>>>> up
>>>>> where I needed to be."
>>>>> -- Douglas Adams
>>>>> ______________________________**_________________
>>>>> blindkid mailing list
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>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/blindkid_nfbnet.org/**
>>>> arielle71%40gmail.com<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindkid_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> ______________________________**_________________
>>>> blindkid mailing list
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>>>> pdonahue2%40satx.rr.co<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindkid_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.co>
>>>> m
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ______________________________**_________________
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ______________________________**_________________
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>>>>
>>>
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