[blindlaw] Bar Review Materials

Rod Alcidonis roddj12 at hotmail.com
Mon Nov 10 15:31:54 UTC 2008


In fact, Jack, I am thinking of taking the MBE on cassettes as well. I 
certainly do not want to face a terrible reader on the day of the exam.

Rod Alcidonis
Criminal Defense Clinic Student Attorney
Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009.
Roger Williams University School of Law
10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003
Bristol, RI 02809
Cell: 718-704-4651
Home: 401-824-8685

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jack Chen" <jackchenonline at hotmail.com>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 6:17 AM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Bar Review Materials


> Rod
>
> I also took the Barbri courses at home.  They provided me with all of the 
> lectures on CD and the files electronically (Can't remember if they are 
> Word Perfect or Word).  The only thing that I remember having trouble with 
> was the study schedule -- it was in PDF.  However, I just had someone read 
> it to me early on.
>
> As a second note, I also took PMBR for the Multistate, which was equally 
> as accomodating.
>
> One other thing that I found helpful was to figure out how I was going to 
> take the exam and simulate it.  NCBE refused to give me the exam in 
> computer format, despite my protests that I would not be practicing law 
> with a reader, and that it wouldn't measure my abilities.  They were only 
> willing to give me the exam on casette, so I recorded my computer reading 
> the entire practice exams at approximately the speed I thought I would 
> listen to the exam.  Then, on practice day, I took the exam just as I 
> would on the real day with the casette.
>
> Hope this helps and good luck.
>
> jack
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Rod Alcidonis" <roddj12 at hotmail.com>
> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 4:37 AM
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Bar Review Materials
>
>
>> Thanks, Ronza. I will seek further advice from you soon.
>>
>> Rod Alcidonis
>> Criminal Defense Clinic Student Attorney
>> Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009.
>> Roger Williams University School of Law
>> 10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003
>> Bristol, RI 02809
>> Cell: 718-704-4651
>> Home: 401-824-8685
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: <AZNOR99 at aol.com>
>> To: <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 11:41 PM
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Bar Review Materials
>>
>>
>>>I took the Bar Exam two years ago.  I registered for and took  BarBri, 
>>>which
>>> worked out very well.  They provided me with all the course  materials 
>>> in
>>> electronic format, though it was WordPerfect.  Such files can  be easily 
>>> converted
>>> to Word format though, so don't let that be a  deterrent.   I physically
>>> attended all of the classes, and I highly  recommend you do the same. 
>>> The
>>> instructors give all kinds of useful tips  that don't appear in the 
>>> written
>>> materials.  I actually could hear the  ConLaw and CivPro professors in 
>>> my head during
>>> the exam, and I know I did better  because of it.  They also have an 
>>> Ipod
>>> upgrade option, so you pay a little  more and receive an Ipod with the 
>>> lectures
>>> already programmed onto it.  I  also opted for this, and it helped when 
>>> I had to
>>> miss a physical lecture or  needed to go over some material more 
>>> thoroughly.
>>> But this is not an Ipod  you can sync with your computer or ITunes, as 
>>> it will
>>> wipe itself if you  do.  If you can figure out a way to access it, it's
>>> great.  If not,  it'd be a waste of money.  For me, I put it under a 
>>> CCTV and
>>> selected the  lectures I needed for that day.  Or, you can just start it 
>>> playing
>>> and move  forward until you find the lecture you want by listening for 
>>> it.
>>>
>>> I registered for PMBR, but I didn't go to the lectures because of a 
>>> family
>>> emergency.  But I did use the materials they sent, which took the format 
>>> of
>>> electronic documents sent to me on a CD.  This was most useful for the 
>>> practice
>>> exams and question bank.  If you want to study for the MBE only,  PMBR 
>>> might
>>> be a better bet, as it is much cheaper than BarBri.  If you're  taking 
>>> an
>>> entire exam, I highly recommend BarBri.
>>>
>>> Feel free to email me off-list if you would like to chat with someone 
>>> who's
>>> done it before.  _aznor99 at aol.com_ (mailto:aznor99 at aol.com) .  Good 
>>> luck.
>>>
>>> Ronza
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> In a message dated 11/9/2008 11:07:17 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
>>> roddj12 at hotmail.com writes:
>>>
>>> John,  did you take the courses in the classroom?
>>> I am debating which is  better.
>>> If they will give me the same thing on Cd, then there won't be the  need 
>>> to
>>> go and sit in a room to watch a video and take notes -- I can do  that 
>>> in my
>>> own quiet time, at my chosen location.
>>> Have anyone taken  those review classes privately before?
>>> I will be making a choice  soon!
>>>
>>> Rod Alcidonis
>>> Criminal Defense Clinic Student  Attorney
>>> Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009.
>>> Roger Williams University School  of Law
>>> 10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003
>>> Bristol, RI 02809
>>> Cell:  718-704-4651
>>> Home: 401-824-8685
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "john" <joramsey at cox.net>
>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing  List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 7:35  PM
>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Bar Review Materials
>>>
>>>
>>>>I had good  luck with PMBR and BAR/BRI for the multi-state. The courses 
>>>>were
>>>> on CD  and I had the accompanying outlines and handouts in electronic
>>>>  format.
>>>> Take care,
>>>> John
>>>>
>>>> John Ramsey  Esq.
>>>>
>>>> Gainesville, FL 32609
>>>>
>>>> Phone: (352)  505-6642
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>  From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] 
>>>> On
>>>> Behalf Of Garry and Joy Relton
>>>> Sent: Sunday, November 09,  2008 6:44 PM
>>>> To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>> Subject: [blindlaw] Bar  Review Materials
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hi folks. I graduated from law school  about twenty years ago when the
>>>> format
>>>> of law review  materials was cassettes. I am now thinking about taking 
>>>> the
>>>> bar and  would like to try out one of the digital bar review packages.
>>>>  Could
>>>> some of you share your experiences with the various courses out  there
>>>> today?
>>>> I am especially interested in finding out about  the MBE for now. I 
>>>> would
>>>> appreciate any input you can give  me.
>>>>
>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>
>>>> Joy Relon -----Original  Message-----
>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org  [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] 
>>>> On
>>>> Behalf Of  blindlaw-request at nfbnet.org
>>>> Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 1:00  PM
>>>> To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>> Subject: blindlaw Digest, Vol 54,  Issue 7
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Send blindlaw mailing list submissions  to
>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>
>>>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via  the World Wide Web, visit
>>>>  http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>> or, via  email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>>>>  blindlaw-request at nfbnet.org
>>>>
>>>> You can reach the person managing  the list at
>>>> blindlaw-owner at nfbnet.org
>>>>
>>>> When replying,  please edit your Subject line so it is more specific 
>>>> than
>>>> "Re:  Contents of blindlaw digest..."
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Today's  Topics:
>>>>
>>>>   1. Re: blindlaw Digest, Vol 54, Issue 6  (kdb)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>>  Message: 1
>>>> Date: Sat, 8 Nov 2008 12:50:05 -0800 (PST)
>>>> From:  kdb <kdbenterprises at yahoo.com>
>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] blindlaw  Digest, Vol 54, Issue 6
>>>> To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>> Message-ID:  <311704.5198.qm at web57309.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
>>>> Content-Type:  text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>>>>
>>>> Update needed: Have any suits  been filed to address the disciminatory
>>>> practices of companies  creating, distributing and selling cell phones 
>>>> and
>>>> other equipment  that via software that is currently AVAILABLE can be 
>>>> made
>>>> speakable  and use of voice command to operate the items made useable
>>>> throughout  each menu and submenu component, yet continues to be sold
>>>>  without
>>>> adequate accessibility, especially for Apple/mac users?   When 
>>>> approached
>>>> regarding this issue and reminded that the owners did  provide for
>>>> accessibility via TTY I remind them that is fine for the  hard of 
>>>> hearing
>>>> but
>>>> the blind and low vision groups seem to  continue to be ignored 
>>>> regarding
>>>> total accessibility for ALL. Thanks  for any information on this issue.
>>>>
>>>>  kdbenterprises
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  ________________________________
>>>> From: "blindlaw-request at nfbnet.org"  <blindlaw-request at nfbnet.org>
>>>> To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>  Sent: Saturday, November 8, 2008 1:00:03 PM
>>>> Subject: blindlaw Digest,  Vol 54, Issue 6
>>>>
>>>> Send blindlaw mailing list submissions  to
>>>>    blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>
>>>> To subscribe or  unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>>>>     http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>> or, via  email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>>>>     blindlaw-request at nfbnet.org
>>>>
>>>> You can reach the person managing  the list at
>>>>    blindlaw-owner at nfbnet.org
>>>>
>>>>  When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific 
>>>> than
>>>> "Re: Contents of blindlaw digest..."
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  Today's Topics:
>>>>
>>>>   1. Re: Loan Forgiveness Programs  (tim and vickie shaw)
>>>>   2. Re: Fwd Free tuition for law  school (Ray Wayne)
>>>>   3. Re: Fwd Free tuition for law school  (Rod Alcidonis)
>>>>   4. Re: Fwd Free tuition for law school  (Leslie Fairall)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>>  Message: 1
>>>> Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2008 18:11:43 +0000
>>>> From: tim and  vickie shaw <timandvickie at hotmail.com>
>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw]  Loan Forgiveness Programs
>>>> To: <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>>  Message-ID: <BAY139-W469A1D758B394144C3B0F2CF190 at phx.gbl>
>>>>  Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> these  sites have some good general info about loan forgiveness, but it
>>>>  does
>>>> look lke most really only apply if you are working in public  service 
>>>> law
>>>> or
>>>> for a nonprofit
>>>>
>>>>  http://www.gradloans.com/law_school_loans/law_loan_forgiveness.php
>>>>  http://www.finaid.org/loans/forgiveness.phtml
>>>>  http://www.abanet.org/legalservices/sclaid/lrap/home.html
>>>>>  -----Original Message-----> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>>>>  [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On> Behalf Of john> Sent: 
>>>>> Friday,
>>>> November 07, 2008 4:44 AM> To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing  List'> 
>>>> Subject:
>>>> [blindlaw] Loan Forgiveness Programs> > On a  somewhat related topic to
>>>> free
>>>> tuition, does anyone know of  any loan> forgiveness programs?> 
>>>> Cordially,>
>>>> John> >  > John Ramsey Esq.> > Gainesville, FL 32609> > Phone:  (352)
>>>> 505-6642> > >  _______________________________________________> 
>>>> blindlaw
>>>> mailing  list> blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>>  http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org> To
>>>>  unsubscribe,
>>>> change your list options or get your account info for>  blindlaw:>
>>>>
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/clucas%40disabilit
>>>>>  ypride.com> > >  _______________________________________________>
>>>>>  blindlaw
>>>> mailing list> blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>>  http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org> To
>>>>  unsubscribe,
>>>> change your list options or  get your account info  for blindlaw:>
>>>>
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/timandvickie%40hot
>>>>  mail.com 
>>>> _________________________________________________________________
>>>> See  how Windows? connects the people, information, and fun that are 
>>>> part
>>>>  of
>>>> your life  http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/119463819/direct/01/
>>>>
>>>>  ------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> Message: 2
>>>> Date: Fri, 7  Nov 2008 21:58:58 -0500
>>>> From: "Ray Wayne"  <RWayne1 at nyc.rr.com>
>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Fwd Free tuition  for law school
>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List"  <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Message-ID:  <005901c9414d$f2194780$13560e62 at nyc.rr.com>
>>>> Content-Type:  text/plain;    charset="iso-8859-1"
>>>>
>>>> Nothing could  make me repeat law school!  Smile!
>>>> Ray
>>>>
>>>> -----  Original Message -----
>>>> From: "David Andrews"  <dandrews at visi.com>
>>>> To: <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>>  Sent: Friday, November 07, 2008 5:31 AM
>>>> Subject: [blindlaw] Fwd Free  tuition for law school
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> >Anybody  want to transfer?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>  Dave
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> >news:  free tuition in 2009 for UC
>>>>> >Irvine law school  students]
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> >-
>>>>>  >Subject:        CAPVI news: free tuition in 2009 for  UC Irvine law
>>>>> >school
>>>>> >students
>>>>>  >Date:   Wed, 5 Nov 2008 08:16:49 -0800
>>>>>  >From:   Anne Ward <inland2wards at att.net>
>>>>>  >
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> >Law School Free for UC  Irvine?s Entering 2009 Class
>>>>> >Posted Oct 22, 2008, 08:34 am  CST
>>>>> >By Debra Cassens Weiss
>>>>>  >Students
>>>>> >who enroll at the University of California?s new  law school in 
>>>>> >Irvine
>>>>> >next fall will get their legal education  for free. The law school is
>>>>> >giving full tuition scholarships  worth about $100,000 to its first
>>>>> >2009 class of about 60  students, the National Law Journal reports.
>>>>> >Charles Cannon,  assistant dean of development and external affairs
>>>>> >at the law  school, told the publication UC Irvine hopes to attract
>>>>>  >high-quality students with the offer. The free tuition is expected 
>>>>> to
>>>>> >cost the school about $6 million, he said.
>>>>>  >The school is seeking donations to cover the scholarships and has so 
>>>>> far
>>>>> >raised about a third of the money.
>>>>> >The  story also reports that the law school had originally called
>>>>>  >itself the Donald Bren School of Law in honor of a $20 million 
>>>>> donor,
>>>>> >but the school is dropping the name. It will be called  the 
>>>>> >University
>>>>> >of California, Irvine, a name that is parallel  to other UC  schools.
>>>>>
>>>>><mhtml:%7B627D47F7-C9EA-44ED-8864-7097818D7533%7Dmid://00000160/%21x-us
>>>>>c:ma
>>>>  i
>>>>> >
>>>>>  >lto:Mail2Corbett%40yahoo.com>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>  _______________________________________________
>>>>> blindlaw mailing  list
>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>>  http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To  unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>  blindlaw:
>>>>>
>>>>
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rwayne1%40nyc.rr.c
>>>>  om
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  ------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> Message: 3
>>>> Date: Sat, 8  Nov 2008 00:30:58 -0500
>>>> From: "Rod Alcidonis"  <roddj12 at hotmail.com>
>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Fwd Free tuition  for law school
>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List"  <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Message-ID:  <BAY105-DAV3729486C39881EBC8DCD8BB180 at phx.gbl>
>>>> Content-Type:  text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
>>>>     reply-type=original
>>>>
>>>> Shame on Ray for discouraging!!!! (Smile).  I am preparing to take the 
>>>> MPRE
>>>> this morning, and there is not much  motivation in one's 3l year.
>>>>
>>>> Rod Alcidonis
>>>> Criminal  Defense Clinic Student Attorney
>>>> Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009.
>>>>  Roger Williams University School of Law
>>>> 10 Metacom Ave., Box:  9003
>>>> Bristol, RI 02809
>>>> Cell: 718-704-4651
>>>> Home:  401-824-8685
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>> From: "Ray  Wayne" <RWayne1 at nyc.rr.com>
>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List"  <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Friday, November 07, 2008 9:58  PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Fwd Free tuition for law  school
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Nothing could make me repeat law  school!  Smile!
>>>>> Ray
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original  Message -----
>>>>> From: "David Andrews"  <dandrews at visi.com>
>>>>> To:  <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Friday, November 07, 2008 5:31  AM
>>>>> Subject: [blindlaw] Fwd Free tuition for law  school
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >Anybody  want to transfer?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  Dave
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  >news: free tuition in 2009 for UC
>>>>>> >Irvine law school  students]
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>>  >-
>>>>>> >Subject:        CAPVI news: free  tuition in 2009 for UC Irvine law
>>>>>> >school
>>>>>>  >students
>>>>>> >Date:   Wed, 5 Nov 2008 08:16:49  -0800
>>>>>> >From:   Anne Ward  <inland2wards at att.net>
>>>>>> >
>>>>>>  >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >Law School Free for UC Irvine?s  Entering 2009 Class
>>>>>> >Posted Oct 22, 2008, 08:34 am  CST
>>>>>> >By Debra Cassens Weiss
>>>>>>  >Students
>>>>>> >who enroll at the University of California?s  new law school in
>>>>>> >Irvine next fall will get their legal  education for free. The law
>>>>>> >school is giving full tuition  scholarships worth about $100,000 to
>>>>>> >its first 2009 class  of about 60 students, the National Law Journal
>>>>>> >reports.  Charles Cannon, assistant dean of development and external
>>>>>>  >affairs at the law school, told the publication UC Irvine hopes  to
>>>>>> >attract high-quality students with the offer. The free  tuition is
>>>>>> >expected to cost the school about $6 million,  he said.
>>>>>> >The school is seeking donations to cover the  scholarships and has 
>>>>>> >so
>>>>>> >far
>>>>>> >raised  about a third of the money.
>>>>>> >The story also reports that  the law school had originally called
>>>>>> >itself the Donald  Bren School of Law in honor of a $20 million 
>>>>>> >donor,
>>>>>> >but  the school is dropping the name. It will be called the 
>>>>>> >University
>>>>>> >of California, Irvine, a name that is parallel  to other UC 
>>>>>> >schools.
>>>>>>
>>>>>><mhtml:%7B627D47F7-C9EA-44ED-8864-7097818D7533%7Dmid://00000160/%21x-u
>>>>>>sc:ma
>>>>>  i
>>>>>> >
>>>>>>  >lto:Mail2Corbett%40yahoo.com>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  _______________________________________________
>>>>>> blindlaw  mailing list
>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>  http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To  unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>>>> for
>>>>>  blindlaw:
>>>>>>
>>>>> 
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rwayne1%40ny
>>>>>  c.rr.c
>>>>> om
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>  _______________________________________________
>>>>> blindlaw mailing  list
>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>>  http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To  unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>  blindlaw:
>>>>>
>>>>
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail.
>>>>  com
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  ------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> Message: 4
>>>> Date: Sat, 8  Nov 2008 01:36:06 -0500 (EST)
>>>> From: Leslie Fairall  <fairall at shellworld.net>
>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Fwd Free  tuition for law school
>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List  <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Message-ID:  <Pine.BSF.4.64.0811080130360.3624 at server1.shellworld.net>
>>>>  Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
>>>>
>>>> As a  struggling part-time 1L, the prospect is tempting since my law 
>>>> school
>>>>  is not approved by the ABA because the school is online. However, you 
>>>> have
>>>> to have a way to pay the bills, which my GS-11 Federal job  provides at 
>>>> the
>>>>  moment.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  ------------------------------
>>>>
>>>>  _______________________________________________
>>>> blindlaw mailing  list
>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>  http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  End of blindlaw Digest, Vol 54, Issue 6
>>>>  ***************************************
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  ------------------------------
>>>>
>>>>  _______________________________________________
>>>> blindlaw mailing  list
>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>  http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  End of blindlaw Digest, Vol 54, Issue 7
>>>>  ***************************************
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>>
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>>
>>
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