From jimi-law at dc.rr.com Tue Dec 1 18:00:51 2009 From: jimi-law at dc.rr.com (James Weisberg) Date: Tue, 1 Dec 2009 10:00:51 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel Message-ID: <6DADEA76DA0C4638934878F4CD771EB9@screnci.local> Hi Folks: Anyone on the lists have experience or knowledge regarding the ADA and suits against air carriers for violations available for quick consult? Thanks. James W. Weisberg, Esq. Law Office of J. William Weisberg 299 South Patencio Road #3 Palm Springs, California 92262 V: 916.425.1010 F: 916.374.7667 E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com Admitted in Wisconsin Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil Rights Advocacy for Children with Diabetes This message contains information which may be confidential and privileged. Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from your system. This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client relationship nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William Weisberg expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in accordance with this disclaimer. From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov Tue Dec 1 17:59:02 2009 From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel) Date: Tue, 1 Dec 2009 11:59:02 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] FW: Southeast DBTAC Director Position Opening Message-ID: ________________________________ From: CMPDL's Disability Discussion Docket (3D) [mailto:CMPDL-3D at MAIL.ABANET.ORG] On Behalf Of Phelan, William Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 7:12 AM To: CMPDL-3D at MAIL.ABANET.ORG Subject: FW: Southeast DBTAC Director Position Opening Job position in Atlanta, GA. See below. William J. Phelan, IV, Esq. Special Projects and Technology Coordinator Commission on Mental and Physical Disability Law American Bar Association 740 15th Street, NW, 9th Floor Washington, DC 20005-1022 T: 202.662.1576 F: 202.442.3439 phelanw at staff.abanet.org www.abanet.org/disability ________________________________ From: Eve L Hill [mailto:ehill at law.syr.edu] Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 10:20 AM To: Eve L Hill Subject: Southeast DBTAC Director Position Opening Hi all I'm sorry to bother you right before the holiday. But I'm trying to get the word out about a really good job opening at the Burton Blatt Institute. The Director position for the Southeast DBTAC ADA Center is open. It's located in Atlanta. The job description is attached, but I'd be happy to talk to anyone who might be interested. It's really a good job and a good opportunity to make change in the disability rights field. Happy Thanksgiving! Thank you. Eve Eve Hill, Esq. Senior Vice President Burton Blatt Institute 1667 K St. NW Suite 640 Washington, DC 20006 (202) 296-2044 ehill at law.syr.edu This e-mail may contain confidential information that may also be legally privileged and that is intended only for the use of the Addressee(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient or an authorized agent of the recipient, please be advised that any dissemination or copying of this e-mail, or taking of any action in reliance on the information contained herein, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify me immediately by use of the Reply button, and then delete the e-mail from your system. Thank you! --------- Going to respond to this message? Be sure to hit "Reply All" when doing so. [http://www.abanet.org/disability/images/3Dlogo.jpg] Disability Discussion Docket (3D) ABA Commission on Mental and Physical Disability Law http://www.abanet.org/disability --------- To leave this list at any time, please send a message to listserv at mail.abanet.org. In the body of the message type "sign off cmpdl-3d." If you have any questions about 3D or the CMPDL in general, please contact William Phelan at phelanw at staff.abanet.org. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: DBTAC Director Position Announcement.doc Type: application/msword Size: 27136 bytes Desc: DBTAC Director Position Announcement.doc URL: From jimi-law at dc.rr.com Tue Dec 1 18:04:56 2009 From: jimi-law at dc.rr.com (James Weisberg) Date: Tue, 1 Dec 2009 10:04:56 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] ada and air travel Message-ID: Hi Folks: Anyone on the lists have experience or knowledge regarding the ADA and suits against air carriers for violations available for quick consult? Thanks James W. Weisberg, Esq. Law Office of J. William Weisberg 299 South Patencio Road #3 Palm Springs, California 92262 V: 916.425.1010 F: 916.374.7667 E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com Admitted in Wisconsin Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil Rights Advocacy for Children with Diabetes This message contains information which may be confidential and privileged. Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from your system. This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client relationship nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William Weisberg expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in accordance with this disclaimer. From rthomas at rjtlawfirm.com Tue Dec 1 19:30:37 2009 From: rthomas at rjtlawfirm.com (Russell J. Thomas, Jr.) Date: Tue, 1 Dec 2009 11:30:37 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel In-Reply-To: <6DADEA76DA0C4638934878F4CD771EB9@screnci.local> References: <6DADEA76DA0C4638934878F4CD771EB9@screnci.local> Message-ID: Off the top of my head, and without any new research, the only case I remember is a case challenging the accessibility of airline websites with respect to attempting to make reservations and ordering tickets on line. I also think that there are regulations on the subject, especially dealing with how disabled passengers are to be treated (or perhaps on some occasions mistreated). I often thought it would be a good idea for the NFB to put together a short guide book concerning travel, including air travel, based upon experiences of NFB members, to be used as a reference guide for blind people who use air travel. Certainly things have changed since 911--some changes for the good, and others not so good. Respectfully, Russell J. Thomas, Jr. THOMAS & ASSOCIATES www.californiaemployersattorneys.com Orange County Office 4121 Westerly Place, Suite 101 Newport Beach, California 92660 T: (949) 752-0101 F: (949) 257-4756 M: (949) 466-7238 Beverly Hills Office 9107 Wilshire Boulevard, Suite 450 Beverly Hills, California 90210 T: (310) 461-3561 -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of James Weisberg Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 10:01 AM To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel Hi Folks: Anyone on the lists have experience or knowledge regarding the ADA and suits against air carriers for violations available for quick consult? Thanks. James W. Weisberg, Esq. Law Office of J. William Weisberg 299 South Patencio Road #3 Palm Springs, California 92262 V: 916.425.1010 F: 916.374.7667 E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com Admitted in Wisconsin Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil Rights Advocacy for Children with Diabetes This message contains information which may be confidential and privileged. Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from your system. This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client relationship nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William Weisberg expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in accordance with this disclaimer. _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rthomas%40rjtlawfi rm.com From pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net Tue Dec 1 19:59:10 2009 From: pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net (Peter Donahue) Date: Tue, 1 Dec 2009 13:59:10 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] ada and air travel References: Message-ID: <003101ca72c0$c08b4380$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn> Good afternoon, The ADA does not apply to airlines. Airlines are covered by the United States Air Carrier Access Act, (ACAA.) I don't remember the exact numbers and such but if there are charges to be filed against an airline due to alleged discrimination against the disabled they must be brought under the Air Carrier Access Act, not the Americans With Disabilities Act. Here's hoping this puts you on the correct litigation path. Peter Donahue ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Weisberg" To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 12:04 PM Subject: [blindlaw] ada and air travel Hi Folks: Anyone on the lists have experience or knowledge regarding the ADA and suits against air carriers for violations available for quick consult? Thanks James W. Weisberg, Esq. Law Office of J. William Weisberg 299 South Patencio Road #3 Palm Springs, California 92262 V: 916.425.1010 F: 916.374.7667 E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com Admitted in Wisconsin Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil Rights Advocacy for Children with Diabetes This message contains information which may be confidential and privileged. Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from your system. This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client relationship nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William Weisberg expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in accordance with this disclaimer. _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglobal.net From stiehm.law at juno.com Tue Dec 1 20:57:43 2009 From: stiehm.law at juno.com (stiehm.law) Date: Tue, 1 Dec 2009 15:57:43 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel Message-ID: <20091201.125747.428.71023@mailpop05.vgs.untd.com> In addition to the airlines, I have recently become curious as to what if any, accommodations for the TSA makes with respect to disabled people going through security and being picked up by somebody at the gate at the terminal at the other end of the flight. For example, do they permit a blind person who is traveling alone to be accompanied through security, down to the airline check-in counter at the gate by a non-ticketed person. At the other end, is a non-ticketed person permitted through security to go to the gate to meet a blind person flying alone? If TSA does not provide for such accommodations do the airlines take it on themselves to provide this service? Has anybody had any experience in this regard? Is the accommodation, if any, voluntary on the part of the TSA and/or the airlines or is it governed by regulation? Patrick H. Stiehm Stiehm Law Office Alexandria, VA 22309 703-360-1089 (Voice) 703-935-8266 (Fax) Tue, 1 Dec 2009 11:30:37 -0800 "Russell J. Thomas, Jr." writes: > Off the top of my head, and without any new research, the only case > I > remember is a case challenging the accessibility of airline websites > with > respect to attempting to make reservations and ordering tickets on > line. > > I also think that there are regulations on the subject, especially > dealing > with how disabled passengers are to be treated (or perhaps on some > occasions > mistreated). > > I often thought it would be a good idea for the NFB to put together > a short > guide book concerning travel, including air travel, based upon > experiences > of NFB members, to be used as a reference guide for blind people who > use air > travel. Certainly things have changed since 911--some changes for > the good, > and others not so good. > > > > > Respectfully, > > > > Russell J. Thomas, Jr. > > THOMAS & ASSOCIATES > > www.californiaemployersattorneys.com > > > > Orange County Office > > 4121 Westerly Place, Suite 101 > > Newport Beach, California 92660 > > T: (949) 752-0101 > > F: (949) 257-4756 > > M: (949) 466-7238 > > > > Beverly Hills Office > > 9107 Wilshire Boulevard, Suite 450 > > Beverly Hills, California 90210 > > T: (310) 461-3561 > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of James Weisberg > Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 10:01 AM > To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' > Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > > Hi Folks: > > > > Anyone on the lists have experience or knowledge regarding the ADA > and suits > against air carriers for violations available for quick consult? > Thanks. > > > > James W. Weisberg, Esq. > > Law Office of J. William Weisberg > > 299 South Patencio Road #3 > > Palm Springs, California 92262 > > V: 916.425.1010 > > F: 916.374.7667 > > E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com > > Admitted in Wisconsin > > Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil > Rights > Advocacy for Children with Diabetes > > This message contains information which may be confidential and > privileged. > Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the > addressee), > you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any > information > contained in this message. If you have received this message in > error, > please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from > your > system. > > This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client > relationship > nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William > Weisberg > expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information > in > accordance with this disclaimer. > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rthomas%40rjtla wfi > rm.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stiehm.law%40ju no.com > ____________________________________________________________ Hotel Hotel pics, info and virtual tours. Click here to book a hotel online. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/c?cp=ewJKbyZ61QloDsW_i_oQ_wAAJ1BdROy9vkzpR6E_Fj7jZTbnAAYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAATRAAAAAA= From stevep.deeley at insightbb.com Tue Dec 1 22:41:01 2009 From: stevep.deeley at insightbb.com (Steve P. Deeley) Date: Tue, 1 Dec 2009 17:41:01 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] ada and air travel In-Reply-To: <003101ca72c0$c08b4380$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn> References: <003101ca72c0$c08b4380$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn> Message-ID: That is interesting. What sort of claims have been filed by blind individuals. What were some of the situations? Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Donahue" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 2:59 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ada and air travel > Good afternoon, > > The ADA does not apply to airlines. Airlines are covered by the United > States Air Carrier Access Act, (ACAA.) I don't remember the exact numbers > and such but if there are charges to be filed against an airline due to > alleged discrimination against the disabled they must be brought under the > Air Carrier Access Act, not the Americans With Disabilities Act. Here's > hoping this puts you on the correct litigation path. > > Peter Donahue > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "James Weisberg" > To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" > Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 12:04 PM > Subject: [blindlaw] ada and air travel > > > Hi Folks: > > > > Anyone on the lists have experience or knowledge regarding the ADA and > suits > against air carriers for violations available for quick consult? Thanks > > > > > > James W. Weisberg, Esq. > > Law Office of J. William Weisberg > > 299 South Patencio Road #3 > > Palm Springs, California 92262 > > V: 916.425.1010 > > F: 916.374.7667 > > E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com > > Admitted in Wisconsin > > Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil Rights > Advocacy for Children with Diabetes > > This message contains information which may be confidential and > privileged. > Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), > you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information > contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, > please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from your > system. > > This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client > relationship > nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William > Weisberg > expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in > accordance with this disclaimer. > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglobal.net > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.426 / Virus Database: 270.14.89/2539 - Release Date: 12/01/09 19:32:00 From stevep.deeley at insightbb.com Tue Dec 1 22:42:59 2009 From: stevep.deeley at insightbb.com (Steve P. Deeley) Date: Tue, 1 Dec 2009 17:42:59 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel In-Reply-To: <20091201.125747.428.71023@mailpop05.vgs.untd.com> References: <20091201.125747.428.71023@mailpop05.vgs.untd.com> Message-ID: <8611BFC2E17B41FC9A7317D4997CED77@StevePC> I've seen Sky Caps escort blind individuals and other persons with disabilities through security. These are usually individuals employed by the airport authority. ----- Original Message ----- From: "stiehm.law" To: Cc: Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 3:57 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > In addition to the airlines, I have recently become curious as to what if > any, accommodations for the TSA makes with respect to disabled people > going through security and being picked up by somebody at the gate at the > terminal at the other end of the flight. For example, do they permit a > blind person who is traveling alone to be accompanied through security, > down to the airline check-in counter at the gate by a non-ticketed > person. > > At the other end, is a non-ticketed person permitted through security to > go to the gate to meet a blind person flying alone? > > If TSA does not provide for such accommodations do the airlines take it > on themselves to provide this service? > > Has anybody had any experience in this regard? Is the accommodation, if > any, voluntary on the part of the TSA and/or the airlines or is it > governed by regulation? > > Patrick H. Stiehm > Stiehm Law Office > Alexandria, VA 22309 > 703-360-1089 (Voice) > 703-935-8266 (Fax) > > > > Tue, 1 Dec 2009 11:30:37 -0800 "Russell J. Thomas, Jr." > writes: >> Off the top of my head, and without any new research, the only case >> I >> remember is a case challenging the accessibility of airline websites >> with >> respect to attempting to make reservations and ordering tickets on >> line. >> >> I also think that there are regulations on the subject, especially >> dealing >> with how disabled passengers are to be treated (or perhaps on some >> occasions >> mistreated). >> >> I often thought it would be a good idea for the NFB to put together >> a short >> guide book concerning travel, including air travel, based upon >> experiences >> of NFB members, to be used as a reference guide for blind people who >> use air >> travel. Certainly things have changed since 911--some changes for >> the good, >> and others not so good. >> >> >> >> >> Respectfully, >> >> >> >> Russell J. Thomas, Jr. >> >> THOMAS & ASSOCIATES >> >> www.californiaemployersattorneys.com >> >> >> >> Orange County Office >> >> 4121 Westerly Place, Suite 101 >> >> Newport Beach, California 92660 >> >> T: (949) 752-0101 >> >> F: (949) 257-4756 >> >> M: (949) 466-7238 >> >> >> >> Beverly Hills Office >> >> 9107 Wilshire Boulevard, Suite 450 >> >> Beverly Hills, California 90210 >> >> T: (310) 461-3561 >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf Of James Weisberg >> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 10:01 AM >> To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' >> Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel >> >> Hi Folks: >> >> >> >> Anyone on the lists have experience or knowledge regarding the ADA >> and suits >> against air carriers for violations available for quick consult? >> Thanks. >> >> >> >> James W. Weisberg, Esq. >> >> Law Office of J. William Weisberg >> >> 299 South Patencio Road #3 >> >> Palm Springs, California 92262 >> >> V: 916.425.1010 >> >> F: 916.374.7667 >> >> E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com >> >> Admitted in Wisconsin >> >> Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil >> Rights >> Advocacy for Children with Diabetes >> >> This message contains information which may be confidential and >> privileged. >> Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the >> addressee), >> you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any >> information >> contained in this message. If you have received this message in >> error, >> please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from >> your >> system. >> >> This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client >> relationship >> nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William >> Weisberg >> expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information >> in >> accordance with this disclaimer. >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for >> blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rthomas%40rjtla > wfi >> rm.com >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stiehm.law%40ju > no.com >> > > ____________________________________________________________ > Hotel > Hotel pics, info and virtual tours. Click here to book a hotel online. > http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/c?cp=ewJKbyZ61QloDsW_i_oQ_wAAJ1BdROy9vkzpR6E_Fj7jZTbnAAYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAATRAAAAAA= > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.426 / Virus Database: 270.14.89/2539 - Release Date: 12/01/09 19:32:00 From ukekearuaro at valtdnet.com Tue Dec 1 22:52:20 2009 From: ukekearuaro at valtdnet.com (Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc.) Date: Tue, 1 Dec 2009 15:52:20 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel References: <20091201.125747.428.71023@mailpop05.vgs.untd.com> Message-ID: <85DE4073835C47F28015FC74C33ED11D@valtd> Hi Patrick: I have experienced no complications traveling alone by air. The airline staff have been superb and extremely helpful. They've helped me with boarding details and even shown me how to PUT ON AN OXYGEN MASK in the event that one drops during an emergency. Here in Denver, a non ticketed individual has accompanied me to the gate. When I got there, the airline in question takes over. If there is no such individual available to accompany me, I have been met at the CHECK-IN counter by airline staff and they have helped me all the way. The caveat is to ensure that these arrangements are in place at the time you purchase your ticket. Otherwise, the airline MAY NOT NECESSARILY be well prepared! All in all, my experience traveling by myself has been great, not just on airlines, but even on cruise lines! Sincerely, Olusegun Denver, Colorado From goldflash9 at sbcglobal.net Tue Dec 1 23:59:26 2009 From: goldflash9 at sbcglobal.net (Sarah Clark) Date: Tue, 1 Dec 2009 15:59:26 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel References: <20091201.125747.428.71023@mailpop05.vgs.untd.com> Message-ID: <007c01ca72e2$50c6ed70$6701a8c0@computer2> Hello Patrick, I have traveled alone a few times in recent years and have been able to be accompanied to the gate by someone who is not a ticketed passenger. The person checks in with me at the ticket counter and is given a special pass to get through security. I don't know whether this is a TSA regulation or something instituted by the airlines themselves, but I've done it with several airlines. I haven't tried to have someone meet me at the gate at the other end, so I have no experience of whether they do this. I just ask the person meeting me at my destination to meet me at the security checkpoint and I have a skycap escort me there. Sarah Clark ----- Original Message ----- From: "stiehm.law" To: Cc: Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 12:57 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > In addition to the airlines, I have recently become curious as to what if > any, accommodations for the TSA makes with respect to disabled people > going through security and being picked up by somebody at the gate at the > terminal at the other end of the flight. For example, do they permit a > blind person who is traveling alone to be accompanied through security, > down to the airline check-in counter at the gate by a non-ticketed > person. > > At the other end, is a non-ticketed person permitted through security to > go to the gate to meet a blind person flying alone? > > If TSA does not provide for such accommodations do the airlines take it > on themselves to provide this service? > > Has anybody had any experience in this regard? Is the accommodation, if > any, voluntary on the part of the TSA and/or the airlines or is it > governed by regulation? > > Patrick H. Stiehm > Stiehm Law Office > Alexandria, VA 22309 > 703-360-1089 (Voice) > 703-935-8266 (Fax) > > > > Tue, 1 Dec 2009 11:30:37 -0800 "Russell J. Thomas, Jr." > writes: >> Off the top of my head, and without any new research, the only case >> I >> remember is a case challenging the accessibility of airline websites >> with >> respect to attempting to make reservations and ordering tickets on >> line. >> >> I also think that there are regulations on the subject, especially >> dealing >> with how disabled passengers are to be treated (or perhaps on some >> occasions >> mistreated). >> >> I often thought it would be a good idea for the NFB to put together >> a short >> guide book concerning travel, including air travel, based upon >> experiences >> of NFB members, to be used as a reference guide for blind people who >> use air >> travel. Certainly things have changed since 911--some changes for >> the good, >> and others not so good. >> >> >> >> >> Respectfully, >> >> >> >> Russell J. Thomas, Jr. >> >> THOMAS & ASSOCIATES >> >> www.californiaemployersattorneys.com >> >> >> >> Orange County Office >> >> 4121 Westerly Place, Suite 101 >> >> Newport Beach, California 92660 >> >> T: (949) 752-0101 >> >> F: (949) 257-4756 >> >> M: (949) 466-7238 >> >> >> >> Beverly Hills Office >> >> 9107 Wilshire Boulevard, Suite 450 >> >> Beverly Hills, California 90210 >> >> T: (310) 461-3561 >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf Of James Weisberg >> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 10:01 AM >> To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' >> Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel >> >> Hi Folks: >> >> >> >> Anyone on the lists have experience or knowledge regarding the ADA >> and suits >> against air carriers for violations available for quick consult? >> Thanks. >> >> >> >> James W. Weisberg, Esq. >> >> Law Office of J. William Weisberg >> >> 299 South Patencio Road #3 >> >> Palm Springs, California 92262 >> >> V: 916.425.1010 >> >> F: 916.374.7667 >> >> E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com >> >> Admitted in Wisconsin >> >> Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil >> Rights >> Advocacy for Children with Diabetes >> >> This message contains information which may be confidential and >> privileged. >> Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the >> addressee), >> you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any >> information >> contained in this message. If you have received this message in >> error, >> please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from >> your >> system. >> >> This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client >> relationship >> nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William >> Weisberg >> expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information >> in >> accordance with this disclaimer. >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for >> blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rthomas%40rjtla > wfi >> rm.com >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stiehm.law%40ju > no.com >> > > ____________________________________________________________ > Hotel > Hotel pics, info and virtual tours. Click here to book a hotel online. > http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/c?cp=ewJKbyZ61QloDsW_i_oQ_wAAJ1BdROy9vkzpR6E_Fj7jZTbnAAYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAATRAAAAAA= > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/goldflash9%40sbcglobal.net From rumpole at roadrunner.com Wed Dec 2 00:12:59 2009 From: rumpole at roadrunner.com (Ross Doerr) Date: Tue, 1 Dec 2009 19:12:59 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel References: <20091201.125747.428.71023@mailpop05.vgs.untd.com> <85DE4073835C47F28015FC74C33ED11D@valtd> Message-ID: <65B1F3660CE04287A5CB73EECD6595A3@none8a46117901> Hi - I would go on to add only one or two observations here - first, it helps to call and remind the air carrier of your pre-arrangements. Sometimes they just plain misplace them or forget. Second, I have much better luck dealing with my air carrier rather than asking the T S A for any kind of help in any way. I have found that old joke of: "T S A stands for "thousands standing around"" to be, sadly, accurate at times. It is not their job to help disabled passengers and they make certain that they do their job. I travel alone by air a lot and find the airlines to be pretty good about things. Having said this, I don't trust them to be flawless. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc." To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 5:52 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > Hi Patrick: > > I have experienced no complications traveling alone by air. The airline > staff have been superb and extremely helpful. They've helped me with > boarding details and even shown me how to PUT ON AN OXYGEN MASK in the > event > that one drops during an emergency. > > Here in Denver, a non ticketed individual has accompanied me to the gate. > When I got there, the airline in question takes over. If there is no such > individual available to accompany me, I have been met at the CHECK-IN > counter by airline staff and they have helped me all the way. The caveat > is > to ensure that these arrangements are in place at the time you purchase > your > ticket. Otherwise, the airline MAY NOT NECESSARILY be well prepared! > > > All in all, my experience traveling by myself has been great, not just on > airlines, but even on cruise lines! > > Sincerely, > Olusegun > Denver, Colorado > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rumpole%40roadrunner.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.426 / Virus Database: 270.14.89/2539 - Release Date: 12/01/09 19:32:00 From pattichang at att.net Wed Dec 2 01:16:52 2009 From: pattichang at att.net (Patti Gregory-Chang) Date: Tue, 1 Dec 2009 19:16:52 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel References: <20091201.125747.428.71023@mailpop05.vgs.untd.com><85DE4073835C47F28015FC74C33ED11D@valtd> <65B1F3660CE04287A5CB73EECD6595A3@none8a46117901> Message-ID: <75A7E3060F8F4054BD7ECE1CB762B66A@D3J75Z91> I am travelling more and more alone and my bigger issue sometimes is when they are too helpful. I know O'Hare quite well and sometimes new people just won't accept that I can travel alone in United's terminal no matter how nice I am about telling them. P.S. National Federation of the Blind of Illinois is now on twitter at www.twitter.com/nfbi. We also have a facebook page. Just search for our full name. Patti Gregory-Chang President, National Federation of the Blind of Illinois pattichang at att.net www.nfbofillinois.org ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ross Doerr" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 6:12 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > Hi - > I would go on to add only one or two observations here - first, it helps > to call and remind the air carrier of your pre-arrangements. Sometimes > they just plain misplace them or forget. > Second, I have much better luck dealing with my air carrier rather than > asking the T S A for any kind of help in any way. > I have found that old joke of: "T S A stands for "thousands standing > around"" to be, sadly, accurate at times. It is not their job to help > disabled passengers and they make certain that they do their job. > I travel alone by air a lot and find the airlines to be pretty good about > things. Having said this, I don't trust them to be flawless. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc." > > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 5:52 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > > >> Hi Patrick: >> >> I have experienced no complications traveling alone by air. The airline >> staff have been superb and extremely helpful. They've helped me with >> boarding details and even shown me how to PUT ON AN OXYGEN MASK in the >> event >> that one drops during an emergency. >> >> Here in Denver, a non ticketed individual has accompanied me to the gate. >> When I got there, the airline in question takes over. If there is no >> such >> individual available to accompany me, I have been met at the CHECK-IN >> counter by airline staff and they have helped me all the way. The caveat >> is >> to ensure that these arrangements are in place at the time you purchase >> your >> ticket. Otherwise, the airline MAY NOT NECESSARILY be well prepared! >> >> >> All in all, my experience traveling by myself has been great, not just on >> airlines, but even on cruise lines! >> >> Sincerely, >> Olusegun >> Denver, Colorado >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rumpole%40roadrunner.com > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.426 / Virus Database: 270.14.89/2539 - Release Date: 12/01/09 > 19:32:00 > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pattichang%40att.net From pattichang at att.net Wed Dec 2 01:18:13 2009 From: pattichang at att.net (Patti Gregory-Chang) Date: Tue, 1 Dec 2009 19:18:13 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] state computer system case Message-ID: <66954123AD474303BCB4E25041063AC8@D3J75Z91> I know that there was a big computer access case against a state, maybe Arizona or Arkansas, in the past few years. Does anyone know the name of the case or have a copy of the settlement if any? P.S. National Federation of the Blind of Illinois is now on twitter at www.twitter.com/nfbi. We also have a facebook page. Just search for our full name. Patti Gregory-Chang President, National Federation of the Blind of Illinois pattichang at att.net www.nfbofillinois.org From benkarpilow at gmail.com Wed Dec 2 02:03:04 2009 From: benkarpilow at gmail.com (Ben Karpilow) Date: Tue, 1 Dec 2009 18:03:04 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] Bar Exam/ Air travel/ practice question Message-ID: Hello fello listers, first of all, I'm happy to report I passed the july 2009 california bar examination on my first attempt. I managed to secure an electronic version of the MBE's thanks to a pilot program run by the NCBE. I understand a lawsuit has been filed on behalf of a blind law student to make this accomidation available as a matter of law to qualified bar candidates. I understand the plaintiff is is being represented by a fellow lister.Good luck, and please keep us updated as to developments in this case. On the subject of air travel, I recall there being an extensive document posted not too long ago on this list which contained precisely the type of information that was the subject of Mr. Weisberg's original inquiry. Perhaps it would be helpful for the original sender, whose name I cannot remember, to repost the information. Finally, a practice question along the lines of one recently asked by Rod : when it comes to filling out forms, does anyone have experience with software that would enable one to digitize a form, i.e., scan it into a computer, then fill it out and print it, without altering the form's original format or look. Also, does any such software allow the user to read the form, in addition to what he/ she has written? Thank you in advance for your responces. Ben Karpilow From b75205 at gmail.com Wed Dec 2 02:15:01 2009 From: b75205 at gmail.com (James Pepper) Date: Tue, 1 Dec 2009 20:15:01 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] state computer system case In-Reply-To: <66954123AD474303BCB4E25041063AC8@D3J75Z91> References: <66954123AD474303BCB4E25041063AC8@D3J75Z91> Message-ID: It was Texas. The state of Texas changed its database software which was then inaccessible to the blind and so they lost thier access to do their jobs. I beleive they won the case. James From rthomas at rjtlawfirm.com Wed Dec 2 02:24:40 2009 From: rthomas at rjtlawfirm.com (Russell J. Thomas, Jr.) Date: Tue, 1 Dec 2009 18:24:40 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel In-Reply-To: <20091201.125747.428.71023@mailpop05.vgs.untd.com> References: <20091201.125747.428.71023@mailpop05.vgs.untd.com> Message-ID: Usually people known as TSA personnel will accompany you from the ticket counter through security to your gate. A person without a ticket, or without a pass stamped by the airline, cannot accompany you past security. The same is true on arrival; a TSA person will take you from the gat to baggage claim or outside the airport. The closest that anyone can come to you on arrival without a pass is to wait for you outside the security check in. I am sure that the service provided by TSA various from airport to airport. The service at John Wayne Airport in Orange County California is excellent. One other suggestion--if you are in a position to do so, it doesn't hurt to tip the TSA representative. If you travel often enough, you will be recognized, and the help for you will be readily available. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of stiehm.law Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 12:58 PM To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org Cc: blindlaw at nfbnet.org Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel In addition to the airlines, I have recently become curious as to what if any, accommodations for the TSA makes with respect to disabled people going through security and being picked up by somebody at the gate at the terminal at the other end of the flight. For example, do they permit a blind person who is traveling alone to be accompanied through security, down to the airline check-in counter at the gate by a non-ticketed person. At the other end, is a non-ticketed person permitted through security to go to the gate to meet a blind person flying alone? If TSA does not provide for such accommodations do the airlines take it on themselves to provide this service? Has anybody had any experience in this regard? Is the accommodation, if any, voluntary on the part of the TSA and/or the airlines or is it governed by regulation? Patrick H. Stiehm Stiehm Law Office Alexandria, VA 22309 703-360-1089 (Voice) 703-935-8266 (Fax) Tue, 1 Dec 2009 11:30:37 -0800 "Russell J. Thomas, Jr." writes: > Off the top of my head, and without any new research, the only case > I > remember is a case challenging the accessibility of airline websites > with > respect to attempting to make reservations and ordering tickets on > line. > > I also think that there are regulations on the subject, especially > dealing > with how disabled passengers are to be treated (or perhaps on some > occasions > mistreated). > > I often thought it would be a good idea for the NFB to put together > a short > guide book concerning travel, including air travel, based upon > experiences > of NFB members, to be used as a reference guide for blind people who > use air > travel. Certainly things have changed since 911--some changes for > the good, > and others not so good. > > > > > Respectfully, > > > > Russell J. Thomas, Jr. > > THOMAS & ASSOCIATES > > www.californiaemployersattorneys.com > > > > Orange County Office > > 4121 Westerly Place, Suite 101 > > Newport Beach, California 92660 > > T: (949) 752-0101 > > F: (949) 257-4756 > > M: (949) 466-7238 > > > > Beverly Hills Office > > 9107 Wilshire Boulevard, Suite 450 > > Beverly Hills, California 90210 > > T: (310) 461-3561 > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of James Weisberg > Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 10:01 AM > To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' > Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > > Hi Folks: > > > > Anyone on the lists have experience or knowledge regarding the ADA > and suits > against air carriers for violations available for quick consult? > Thanks. > > > > James W. Weisberg, Esq. > > Law Office of J. William Weisberg > > 299 South Patencio Road #3 > > Palm Springs, California 92262 > > V: 916.425.1010 > > F: 916.374.7667 > > E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com > > Admitted in Wisconsin > > Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil > Rights > Advocacy for Children with Diabetes > > This message contains information which may be confidential and > privileged. > Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the > addressee), > you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any > information > contained in this message. If you have received this message in > error, > please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from > your > system. > > This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client > relationship > nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William > Weisberg > expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information > in > accordance with this disclaimer. > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rthomas%40rjtla wfi > rm.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stiehm.law%40ju no.com > ____________________________________________________________ Hotel Hotel pics, info and virtual tours. Click here to book a hotel online. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/c?cp=ewJKbyZ61QloDsW_i_oQ_wAAJ1BdRO y9vkzpR6E_Fj7jZTbnAAYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAATRAAAAAA= _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rthomas%40rjtlawfi rm.com From rwayne1 at nyc.rr.com Wed Dec 2 02:38:33 2009 From: rwayne1 at nyc.rr.com (ray wayne) Date: Tue, 01 Dec 2009 21:38:33 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] state computer system case In-Reply-To: <66954123AD474303BCB4E25041063AC8@D3J75Z91> References: <66954123AD474303BCB4E25041063AC8@D3J75Z91> Message-ID: <20091202023833.rwayne1@nyc.rr.com> Patti: I think they were in Arkansas and Pennsylvania, but that's all I know. We have one in progress in New York, which BGL is handling. I know the plaintiff, but I must admit I've fallen out of the loop as to the status of the case. Ray ----- Original Message ----- From: "Patti Gregory-Chang" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Date: Tuesday, Dec 1, 2009 20:50:47 Subject: [bllaw] state computer system case > > > I know that there was a big computer access case against a state, maybe > Arizona or Arkansas, in the past few years. Does anyone know the name of > the case or have a copy of the settlement if any? > > P.S. National Federation of the Blind of Illinois is now on twitter at > www.twitter.com/nfbi. > We also have a facebook page. Just search for our full name. > > Patti Gregory-Chang > President, National Federation of the Blind of Illinois > pattichang at att.net > www.nfbofillinois.org > > > _______________________________________________ > bllaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for bllaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rwayne1%40nyc.rr.com From rthomas at rjtlawfirm.com Wed Dec 2 02:29:07 2009 From: rthomas at rjtlawfirm.com (Russell J. Thomas, Jr.) Date: Tue, 1 Dec 2009 18:29:07 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel In-Reply-To: <75A7E3060F8F4054BD7ECE1CB762B66A@D3J75Z91> References: <20091201.125747.428.71023@mailpop05.vgs.untd.com><85DE4073835C47F28015FC74C33ED11D@valtd><65B1F3660CE04287A5CB73EECD6595A3@none8a46117901> <75A7E3060F8F4054BD7ECE1CB762B66A@D3J75Z91> Message-ID: <83EEC38076E344AFBEDBBD9FB6BF0013@russ> Regretably, the people at airports who are supposed to help the disabled are probably trained from a form book. The notion is that one glove fits all. Don't be afraid to assert your independence (tastefully of course) when you truly don't need help. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Patti Gregory-Chang Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 5:17 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel I am travelling more and more alone and my bigger issue sometimes is when they are too helpful. I know O'Hare quite well and sometimes new people just won't accept that I can travel alone in United's terminal no matter how nice I am about telling them. P.S. National Federation of the Blind of Illinois is now on twitter at www.twitter.com/nfbi. We also have a facebook page. Just search for our full name. Patti Gregory-Chang President, National Federation of the Blind of Illinois pattichang at att.net www.nfbofillinois.org ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ross Doerr" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 6:12 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > Hi - > I would go on to add only one or two observations here - first, it helps > to call and remind the air carrier of your pre-arrangements. Sometimes > they just plain misplace them or forget. > Second, I have much better luck dealing with my air carrier rather than > asking the T S A for any kind of help in any way. > I have found that old joke of: "T S A stands for "thousands standing > around"" to be, sadly, accurate at times. It is not their job to help > disabled passengers and they make certain that they do their job. > I travel alone by air a lot and find the airlines to be pretty good about > things. Having said this, I don't trust them to be flawless. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc." > > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 5:52 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > > >> Hi Patrick: >> >> I have experienced no complications traveling alone by air. The airline >> staff have been superb and extremely helpful. They've helped me with >> boarding details and even shown me how to PUT ON AN OXYGEN MASK in the >> event >> that one drops during an emergency. >> >> Here in Denver, a non ticketed individual has accompanied me to the gate. >> When I got there, the airline in question takes over. If there is no >> such >> individual available to accompany me, I have been met at the CHECK-IN >> counter by airline staff and they have helped me all the way. The caveat >> is >> to ensure that these arrangements are in place at the time you purchase >> your >> ticket. Otherwise, the airline MAY NOT NECESSARILY be well prepared! >> >> >> All in all, my experience traveling by myself has been great, not just on >> airlines, but even on cruise lines! >> >> Sincerely, >> Olusegun >> Denver, Colorado >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rumpole%40roadrunn er.com > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.426 / Virus Database: 270.14.89/2539 - Release Date: 12/01/09 > 19:32:00 > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pattichang%40att.n et _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rthomas%40rjtlawfi rm.com From benkarpilow at gmail.com Wed Dec 2 03:08:46 2009 From: benkarpilow at gmail.com (Ben Karpilow) Date: Tue, 1 Dec 2009 19:08:46 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel References: <20091201.125747.428.71023@mailpop05.vgs.untd.com><85DE4073835C47F28015FC74C33ED11D@valtd><65B1F3660CE04287A5CB73EECD6595A3@none8a46117901> <75A7E3060F8F4054BD7ECE1CB762B66A@D3J75Z91> Message-ID: Hello fello listers, first of all, I'm happy to report I passed the july 2009 california bar examination on my first attempt. I managed to secure an electronic version of the MBE's thanks to a pilot program run by the NCBE. I understand a lawsuit has been filed on behalf of a blind law student to make this accomidation available as a matter of law to qualified bar candidates. I understand the plaintiff is is being represented by a fellow lister.Good luck, and please keep us updated as to developments in this case. On the subject of air travel, I recall there being an extensive document posted not too long ago on this list which contained precisely the type of information that was the subject of Mr. Weisberg's original inquiry. Perhaps it would be helpful for the original sender, whose name I cannot remember, to repost the information. Finally, a practice question along the lines of one recently asked by Rod : when it comes to filling out forms, does anyone have experience with software that would enable one to digitize a form, i.e., scan it into a computer, then fill it out and print it, without altering the form's original format or look. Also, does any such software allow the user to read the form, in addition to what he/ she has written? Thank you in advance for your responces. Ben Karpilow ----- Original Message ----- From: "Patti Gregory-Chang" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 5:16 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel >I am travelling more and more alone and my bigger issue sometimes is when >they are too helpful. I know O'Hare quite well and sometimes new people >just won't accept that I can travel alone in United's terminal no matter >how nice I am about telling them. > > P.S. National Federation of the Blind of Illinois is now on twitter at > www.twitter.com/nfbi. > We also have a facebook page. Just search for our full name. > > Patti Gregory-Chang > President, National Federation of the Blind of Illinois > pattichang at att.net > www.nfbofillinois.org > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ross Doerr" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 6:12 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > > >> Hi - >> I would go on to add only one or two observations here - first, it helps >> to call and remind the air carrier of your pre-arrangements. Sometimes >> they just plain misplace them or forget. >> Second, I have much better luck dealing with my air carrier rather than >> asking the T S A for any kind of help in any way. >> I have found that old joke of: "T S A stands for "thousands standing >> around"" to be, sadly, accurate at times. It is not their job to help >> disabled passengers and they make certain that they do their job. >> I travel alone by air a lot and find the airlines to be pretty good about >> things. Having said this, I don't trust them to be flawless. >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc." >> >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 5:52 PM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel >> >> >>> Hi Patrick: >>> >>> I have experienced no complications traveling alone by air. The airline >>> staff have been superb and extremely helpful. They've helped me with >>> boarding details and even shown me how to PUT ON AN OXYGEN MASK in the >>> event >>> that one drops during an emergency. >>> >>> Here in Denver, a non ticketed individual has accompanied me to the >>> gate. >>> When I got there, the airline in question takes over. If there is no >>> such >>> individual available to accompany me, I have been met at the CHECK-IN >>> counter by airline staff and they have helped me all the way. The >>> caveat is >>> to ensure that these arrangements are in place at the time you purchase >>> your >>> ticket. Otherwise, the airline MAY NOT NECESSARILY be well prepared! >>> >>> >>> All in all, my experience traveling by myself has been great, not just >>> on >>> airlines, but even on cruise lines! >>> >>> Sincerely, >>> Olusegun >>> Denver, Colorado >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rumpole%40roadrunner.com >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 8.5.426 / Virus Database: 270.14.89/2539 - Release Date: >> 12/01/09 19:32:00 >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pattichang%40att.net > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/benkarpilow%40gmail.com From timandvickie at hotmail.com Wed Dec 2 03:08:58 2009 From: timandvickie at hotmail.com (Tim Shaw) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 03:08:58 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] state computer system case In-Reply-To: References: <66954123AD474303BCB4E25041063AC8@D3J75Z91>, Message-ID: Ha, no doubt. I work for the state of Texas and I know of many peices of software they use in other agencies than mine that arent accessible. There are whole agencies that JAWS users can work in. > Date: Tue, 1 Dec 2009 20:15:01 -0600 > From: b75205 at gmail.com > To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] state computer system case > > It was Texas. The state of Texas changed its database software which was > then inaccessible to the blind and so they lost thier access to do their > jobs. I beleive they won the case. > > James > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/timandvickie%40hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live Hotmail gives you a free,exclusive gift. http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowslive/hotmail_bl1/hotmail_bl1.aspx?ocid=PID23879::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-ww:WM_IMHM_7:092009 From keith-vick at msn.com Wed Dec 2 03:54:29 2009 From: keith-vick at msn.com (Keith Vick) Date: Tue, 1 Dec 2009 20:54:29 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] ada and air travel In-Reply-To: <003101ca72c0$c08b4380$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn> References: <003101ca72c0$c08b4380$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn> Message-ID: As a follow on to Mr. Donahue's email, the below are some links related to air travel. Complaints with the DOT http://airconsumer.ost.dot.gov/ Some guidelines are posted here: http://www.ada.gov/cguide.htm#anchor63814 According to the ada.gov site people may enforce rights under the Air Carrier Access Act by filing a complaint with the U.S. Department of Transportation, or by bringing a lawsuit in Federal court. Regards, Keith Vick -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Peter Donahue Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 12:59 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ada and air travel Good afternoon, The ADA does not apply to airlines. Airlines are covered by the United States Air Carrier Access Act, (ACAA.) I don't remember the exact numbers and such but if there are charges to be filed against an airline due to alleged discrimination against the disabled they must be brought under the Air Carrier Access Act, not the Americans With Disabilities Act. Here's hoping this puts you on the correct litigation path. Peter Donahue ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Weisberg" To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 12:04 PM Subject: [blindlaw] ada and air travel Hi Folks: Anyone on the lists have experience or knowledge regarding the ADA and suits against air carriers for violations available for quick consult? Thanks James W. Weisberg, Esq. Law Office of J. William Weisberg 299 South Patencio Road #3 Palm Springs, California 92262 V: 916.425.1010 F: 916.374.7667 E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com Admitted in Wisconsin Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil Rights Advocacy for Children with Diabetes This message contains information which may be confidential and privileged. Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from your system. This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client relationship nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William Weisberg expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in accordance with this disclaimer. _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglo bal.net _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/keith-vick%40msn.c om From keith-vick at msn.com Wed Dec 2 04:01:32 2009 From: keith-vick at msn.com (Keith Vick) Date: Tue, 1 Dec 2009 21:01:32 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel In-Reply-To: References: <20091201.125747.428.71023@mailpop05.vgs.untd.com><85DE4073835C47F28015FC74C33ED11D@valtd><65B1F3660CE04287A5CB73EECD6595A3@none8a46117901> <75A7E3060F8F4054BD7ECE1CB762B66A@D3J75Z91> Message-ID: Just as a follow on to my prior email the number of complaints filed with the DOT against airlines regarding disabilities totaled 14,006. Of these, "failure to provide assistance" constituted 8,536 of the complaints. Thanks should be given to the investigators who are probably swamped. Regards, Keith Vick -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ben Karpilow Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 8:09 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel Hello fello listers, first of all, I'm happy to report I passed the july 2009 california bar examination on my first attempt. I managed to secure an electronic version of the MBE's thanks to a pilot program run by the NCBE. I understand a lawsuit has been filed on behalf of a blind law student to make this accomidation available as a matter of law to qualified bar candidates. I understand the plaintiff is is being represented by a fellow lister.Good luck, and please keep us updated as to developments in this case. On the subject of air travel, I recall there being an extensive document posted not too long ago on this list which contained precisely the type of information that was the subject of Mr. Weisberg's original inquiry. Perhaps it would be helpful for the original sender, whose name I cannot remember, to repost the information. Finally, a practice question along the lines of one recently asked by Rod : when it comes to filling out forms, does anyone have experience with software that would enable one to digitize a form, i.e., scan it into a computer, then fill it out and print it, without altering the form's original format or look. Also, does any such software allow the user to read the form, in addition to what he/ she has written? Thank you in advance for your responces. Ben Karpilow ----- Original Message ----- From: "Patti Gregory-Chang" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 5:16 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel >I am travelling more and more alone and my bigger issue sometimes is when >they are too helpful. I know O'Hare quite well and sometimes new people >just won't accept that I can travel alone in United's terminal no matter >how nice I am about telling them. > > P.S. National Federation of the Blind of Illinois is now on twitter at > www.twitter.com/nfbi. > We also have a facebook page. Just search for our full name. > > Patti Gregory-Chang > President, National Federation of the Blind of Illinois > pattichang at att.net > www.nfbofillinois.org > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ross Doerr" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 6:12 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > > >> Hi - >> I would go on to add only one or two observations here - first, it helps >> to call and remind the air carrier of your pre-arrangements. Sometimes >> they just plain misplace them or forget. >> Second, I have much better luck dealing with my air carrier rather than >> asking the T S A for any kind of help in any way. >> I have found that old joke of: "T S A stands for "thousands standing >> around"" to be, sadly, accurate at times. It is not their job to help >> disabled passengers and they make certain that they do their job. >> I travel alone by air a lot and find the airlines to be pretty good about >> things. Having said this, I don't trust them to be flawless. >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc." >> >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 5:52 PM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel >> >> >>> Hi Patrick: >>> >>> I have experienced no complications traveling alone by air. The airline >>> staff have been superb and extremely helpful. They've helped me with >>> boarding details and even shown me how to PUT ON AN OXYGEN MASK in the >>> event >>> that one drops during an emergency. >>> >>> Here in Denver, a non ticketed individual has accompanied me to the >>> gate. >>> When I got there, the airline in question takes over. If there is no >>> such >>> individual available to accompany me, I have been met at the CHECK-IN >>> counter by airline staff and they have helped me all the way. The >>> caveat is >>> to ensure that these arrangements are in place at the time you purchase >>> your >>> ticket. Otherwise, the airline MAY NOT NECESSARILY be well prepared! >>> >>> >>> All in all, my experience traveling by myself has been great, not just >>> on >>> airlines, but even on cruise lines! >>> >>> Sincerely, >>> Olusegun >>> Denver, Colorado >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rumpole%40roadrunn er.com >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- >> >> >> >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 8.5.426 / Virus Database: 270.14.89/2539 - Release Date: >> 12/01/09 19:32:00 >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pattichang%40att.n et > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/benkarpilow%40gmai l.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/keith-vick%40msn.c om From timandvickie at hotmail.com Wed Dec 2 04:28:32 2009 From: timandvickie at hotmail.com (Tim Shaw) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 04:28:32 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] state computer system case In-Reply-To: <20091202023833.rwayne1@nyc.rr.com> References: <66954123AD474303BCB4E25041063AC8@D3J75Z91>, <20091202023833.rwayne1@nyc.rr.com> Message-ID: The disability determination services agency in Texas as a system they use that isnt accessible so blind people cant work for them, but they blame it on the IRS whos program they are using. > From: rwayne1 at nyc.rr.com > To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org > Date: Tue, 1 Dec 2009 21:38:33 -0500 > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] state computer system case > > Patti: > I think they were in Arkansas and Pennsylvania, but that's all I know. We have one in progress in New York, which BGL is handling. I know the plaintiff, but I must admit I've fallen out of the loop as to the status of the case. > Ray > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Patti Gregory-Chang" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Date: Tuesday, Dec 1, 2009 20:50:47 > Subject: [bllaw] state computer system case > > > > > > > I know that there was a big computer access case against a state, maybe > > Arizona or Arkansas, in the past few years. Does anyone know the name of > > the case or have a copy of the settlement if any? > > > > P.S. National Federation of the Blind of Illinois is now on twitter at > > www.twitter.com/nfbi. > > We also have a facebook page. Just search for our full name. > > > > Patti Gregory-Chang > > President, National Federation of the Blind of Illinois > > pattichang at att.net > > www.nfbofillinois.org > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > bllaw mailing list > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for bllaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rwayne1%40nyc.rr.com > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/timandvickie%40hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live Hotmail is faster and more secure than ever. http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowslive/hotmail_bl1/hotmail_bl1.aspx?ocid=PID23879::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-ww:WM_IMHM_1:092009 From billreif at ameritech.net Wed Dec 2 06:37:21 2009 From: billreif at ameritech.net (Bill Reif) Date: Wed, 02 Dec 2009 00:37:21 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] state computer system case In-Reply-To: <66954123AD474303BCB4E25041063AC8@D3J75Z91> References: <66954123AD474303BCB4E25041063AC8@D3J75Z91> Message-ID: <4B160B21.60805@ameritech.net> Hi Patti and list, I believe the caption of the case is: Jim W. Thatcher, National Federation of the Blind (NFB) v The State of Arkansas. Our final Press Release is below. PA sued the same software company. Bill Reif National Federation of the Blind of Arkansas Agrees to Settlement of Lawsuit Over Accessibility of Software to Blind State Employees Little Rock, Arkansas (August 11, 2008): The National Federation of the Blind of Arkansas and two blind state employees have agreed to a settlement among themselves, the state of Arkansas, and software provider SAP Public Services, Inc. The agreement resolves a lawsuit brought by blind state employees in 2001 because the blind could not access the Arkansas Administrative Statewide Information System (AASIS). The state, in turn, brought suit against SAP, which had substantially designed AASIS. Under the agreement, SAP will upgrade AASIS to include accessibility features that will allow blind state employees using text-to-speech screen access technology to perform employment functions using AASIS. The upgrade is to be in place by August 1, 2009. Chris McKenzie, president of the National Federation of the Blind of Arkansas, said: “We are pleased that the state of Arkansas and SAP are taking steps to ensure that blind state employees will be able to perform their jobs efficiently and effectively using the same tools as all other state employees. We will continue to monitor the situation until we are certain that all of the necessary functions of AASIS are fully accessible to blind employees of this state.” Dustin McDaniel, attorney general of the state of Arkansas, said: “We are pleased with the settlement that was reached in this matter and are glad to put this lengthy litigation behind us. It was a good resolution for the State as well as blind state employees who will now have equal access to the State's computer system." Patti Gregory-Chang wrote: > I know that there was a big computer access case against a state, > maybe Arizona or Arkansas, in the past few years. Does anyone know the > name of the case or have a copy of the settlement if any? > > P.S. National Federation of the Blind of Illinois is now on twitter at > www.twitter.com/nfbi. > We also have a facebook page. Just search for our full name. > > Patti Gregory-Chang > President, National Federation of the Blind of Illinois > pattichang at att.net > www.nfbofillinois.org > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/billreif%40ameritech.net > > From dandrews at visi.com Wed Dec 2 07:40:26 2009 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Wed, 02 Dec 2009 01:40:26 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] state computer system case In-Reply-To: <66954123AD474303BCB4E25041063AC8@D3J75Z91> References: <66954123AD474303BCB4E25041063AC8@D3J75Z91> Message-ID: There was a suit in Arkansas -- also one in Texas. Dave At 07:18 PM 12/1/2009, you wrote: >I know that there was a big computer access case against a state, >maybe Arizona or Arkansas, in the past few years. Does anyone know >the name of the case or have a copy of the settlement if any? > >P.S. National Federation of the Blind of Illinois is now on twitter >at www.twitter.com/nfbi. >We also have a facebook page. Just search for our full name. > >Patti Gregory-Chang >President, National Federation of the Blind of Illinois >pattichang at att.net >www.nfbofillinois.org > >_______________________________________________ >blindlaw mailing list >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >for blindlaw: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40visi.com > > >__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus >signature database 4653 (20091201) __________ > >The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > >http://www.eset.com > > From dandrews at visi.com Wed Dec 2 07:43:40 2009 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Wed, 02 Dec 2009 01:43:40 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] state computer system case In-Reply-To: References: <66954123AD474303BCB4E25041063AC8@D3J75Z91> <20091202023833.rwayne1@nyc.rr.com> Message-ID: I believe the Texas suit was over the system the state uses where employees have to enter time worked, and other HR matters. I believe it was a Peoplesoft application -- they are now owned by Oracle. Dave At 10:28 PM 12/1/2009, you wrote: >The disability determination services agency in Texas as a system >they use that isnt accessible so blind people cant work for them, >but they blame it on the IRS whos program they are using. > > > From: rwayne1 at nyc.rr.com > > To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > Date: Tue, 1 Dec 2009 21:38:33 -0500 > > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] state computer system case > > > > Patti: > > I think they were in Arkansas and Pennsylvania, but that's all I > know. We have one in progress in New York, which BGL is handling. I > know the plaintiff, but I must admit I've fallen out of the loop as > to the status of the case. > > Ray > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Patti Gregory-Chang" > > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > > Date: Tuesday, Dec 1, 2009 20:50:47 > > Subject: [bllaw] state computer system case > > > > > > > > > > > I know that there was a big computer access case against a state, maybe > > > Arizona or Arkansas, in the past few years. Does anyone know the name of > > > the case or have a copy of the settlement if any? From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Wed Dec 2 08:05:31 2009 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 00:05:31 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel In-Reply-To: <20091201.125747.428.71023@mailpop05.vgs.untd.com> References: <20091201.125747.428.71023@mailpop05.vgs.untd.com> Message-ID: <2997A66A10B2433784B58824BE3EF4BA@spike> I travel frequently alone and the air lines and/or HSA provide needed assistence upon my request. including through security check points and picking up baggage and assistence with procuring ground transportation or to a waiting party. I have found HSA and airport staff to be very cooperative. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "stiehm.law" To: Cc: Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 12:57 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > In addition to the airlines, I have recently become curious as to what if > any, accommodations for the TSA makes with respect to disabled people > going through security and being picked up by somebody at the gate at the > terminal at the other end of the flight. For example, do they permit a > blind person who is traveling alone to be accompanied through security, > down to the airline check-in counter at the gate by a non-ticketed > person. > > At the other end, is a non-ticketed person permitted through security to > go to the gate to meet a blind person flying alone? > > If TSA does not provide for such accommodations do the airlines take it > on themselves to provide this service? > > Has anybody had any experience in this regard? Is the accommodation, if > any, voluntary on the part of the TSA and/or the airlines or is it > governed by regulation? > > Patrick H. Stiehm > Stiehm Law Office > Alexandria, VA 22309 > 703-360-1089 (Voice) > 703-935-8266 (Fax) > > > > Tue, 1 Dec 2009 11:30:37 -0800 "Russell J. Thomas, Jr." > writes: >> Off the top of my head, and without any new research, the only case >> I >> remember is a case challenging the accessibility of airline websites >> with >> respect to attempting to make reservations and ordering tickets on >> line. >> >> I also think that there are regulations on the subject, especially >> dealing >> with how disabled passengers are to be treated (or perhaps on some >> occasions >> mistreated). >> >> I often thought it would be a good idea for the NFB to put together >> a short >> guide book concerning travel, including air travel, based upon >> experiences >> of NFB members, to be used as a reference guide for blind people who >> use air >> travel. Certainly things have changed since 911--some changes for >> the good, >> and others not so good. >> >> >> >> >> Respectfully, >> >> >> >> Russell J. Thomas, Jr. >> >> THOMAS & ASSOCIATES >> >> www.californiaemployersattorneys.com >> >> >> >> Orange County Office >> >> 4121 Westerly Place, Suite 101 >> >> Newport Beach, California 92660 >> >> T: (949) 752-0101 >> >> F: (949) 257-4756 >> >> M: (949) 466-7238 >> >> >> >> Beverly Hills Office >> >> 9107 Wilshire Boulevard, Suite 450 >> >> Beverly Hills, California 90210 >> >> T: (310) 461-3561 >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf Of James Weisberg >> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 10:01 AM >> To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' >> Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel >> >> Hi Folks: >> >> >> >> Anyone on the lists have experience or knowledge regarding the ADA >> and suits >> against air carriers for violations available for quick consult? >> Thanks. >> >> >> >> James W. Weisberg, Esq. >> >> Law Office of J. William Weisberg >> >> 299 South Patencio Road #3 >> >> Palm Springs, California 92262 >> >> V: 916.425.1010 >> >> F: 916.374.7667 >> >> E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com >> >> Admitted in Wisconsin >> >> Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil >> Rights >> Advocacy for Children with Diabetes >> >> This message contains information which may be confidential and >> privileged. >> Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the >> addressee), >> you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any >> information >> contained in this message. If you have received this message in >> error, >> please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from >> your >> system. >> >> This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client >> relationship >> nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William >> Weisberg >> expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information >> in >> accordance with this disclaimer. >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for >> blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rthomas%40rjtla > wfi >> rm.com >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stiehm.law%40ju > no.com >> > > ____________________________________________________________ > Hotel > Hotel pics, info and virtual tours. Click here to book a hotel online. > http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/c?cp=ewJKbyZ61QloDsW_i_oQ_wAAJ1BdROy9vkzpR6E_Fj7jZTbnAAYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAATRAAAAAA= > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net From info at michaelhingson.com Wed Dec 2 08:30:47 2009 From: info at michaelhingson.com (Michael Hingson) Date: Wed, 02 Dec 2009 02:30:47 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] KnfbReader Mobile END OF YEAR CELEBRATION Message-ID: KnfbReader Mobile END OF YEAR CELEBRATION Greetings all, We are finishing our first year of providing the KnfbReader Mobile to the blind of the Nation. KNFB Technologies has told me and our NFB board that at present we are #1 in sales in the world. This is, I believe, due to our technical support of the Reader and our ability to provide the Readers at good prices and most of all to you who recognize the value of the Reader. To celebrate our first year's accomplishments we are offering some end of year special pricing to anyone who wishes to purchase a KnfbReader by the end of 2009. If you purchase a KnfbReader from The Michael Hingson Group or any of its dealers on or before December 31, 2009 you can take advantage of these special prices. 1. Purchase a KnfbReader Mobile including a Nokia N82 and either Talks or MobileSpeak at $100 off our normal price and get the package for $1,495.00 plus shipping. We have plenty of Nokia N82s and can get more. Even though Nokia has discontinued this product we have access to them for now. Because of your faith and the buying power you have given us this year we have unique access to this hardware in the US for the best price anywhere. If you would rather have the new Nokia N86 you can buy the KnfbReader Mobile using this platform, again including either Talks or MobileSpeak, but now get $150 off our regular price and get the entire package for $1,620.00 plus shipping. As always you get full support and one year of software upgrades. Each unit comes fully integrated and ready for you to use. We offer some accessories including extended batteries for the Nokia N82, Bluetooth headsets, and WayFinder Access GPS. Feel free to ask about these items when calling or emailing with questions or to place an order. Remember, to qualify for the special end of year prices you must place your order by the end of December 31, 2009. If you want your KnfbReader Mobile in time for Christmas please order by December 15. We will work with state agencies and other organizations to accommodate their purchasing procedures so they may also take advantage of this special pricing. Thank you all for the support you have given us this year. I and the entire team appreciate all your questions and assistance in spreading the word about the NFB KnfbReader Mobile sales project. We will continue to provide all the support we can as we move into next year. As new phones and new Reader features become available you can be assured that we will assist you in getting your questions answered as well as in insuring that you have the best products available. Please visit our web site, http://knfbreader.michaelhingson.com, to keep up with the latest information about the Reader. Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to all, Mike Hingson The Michael Hingson Group "Speaking with Vision" Michael Hingson, President (415) 827-4084 info at michaelhingson.com www.michaelhingson.com for info on the new KNFB Reader Mobile, visit: http://knfbreader.michaelhingson.com From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Wed Dec 2 08:41:02 2009 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 00:41:02 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel In-Reply-To: <85DE4073835C47F28015FC74C33ED11D@valtd> References: <20091201.125747.428.71023@mailpop05.vgs.untd.com> <85DE4073835C47F28015FC74C33ED11D@valtd> Message-ID: <310AF3C9782240EE9AA780A4AD12CEAB@spike> That's good to know about cruise lines as I can remember the days where certain cruise lines discriminated against blind passengers traveling alone. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc." To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 2:52 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > Hi Patrick: > > I have experienced no complications traveling alone by air. The airline > staff have been superb and extremely helpful. They've helped me with > boarding details and even shown me how to PUT ON AN OXYGEN MASK in the > event that one drops during an emergency. > > Here in Denver, a non ticketed individual has accompanied me to the gate. > When I got there, the airline in question takes over. If there is no such > individual available to accompany me, I have been met at the CHECK-IN > counter by airline staff and they have helped me all the way. The caveat > is to ensure that these arrangements are in place at the time you purchase > your ticket. Otherwise, the airline MAY NOT NECESSARILY be well prepared! > > > All in all, my experience traveling by myself has been great, not just on > airlines, but even on cruise lines! > > Sincerely, > Olusegun > Denver, Colorado > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Wed Dec 2 09:55:26 2009 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 01:55:26 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] Bar Exam/ Air travel/ practice question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <755BC5BBB6924782846D2E4A3F5ADF96@spike> congratulations on passing the bar! I'm not what actual forms you're looking for but you may want to check out Martin Dean's publisher of California essential forms at www.essentialpublishers.com. I have met with the distributor at various trade shows through the California Association of Legal Document Assistants and I am told that the forms should work with screen reading software. He also told me of a client that uses them with dictation software as well. This is much less expensive than Legal Solutions and as that software is going away as we know it this is much more user friendly. Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal 1237 P Street Fresno ca 93721 559-266-9237 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ben Karpilow" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 6:03 PM Subject: [blindlaw] Bar Exam/ Air travel/ practice question > Hello fello listers, > > first of all, I'm happy to report I passed the july 2009 california bar > examination on my first attempt. I managed to secure an electronic version > of the MBE's thanks to a pilot program run by the NCBE. I understand a > lawsuit has been filed on behalf of a blind law student to make this > accomidation available as a matter of law to qualified bar candidates. I > understand the plaintiff is is being represented by a fellow lister.Good > luck, and please keep us updated as to developments in this case. > > On the subject of air travel, I recall there being an extensive document > posted not too long ago on this list which contained precisely the type of > information that was the subject of Mr. Weisberg's original inquiry. > Perhaps it would be helpful for the original sender, whose name I cannot > remember, to repost the information. > > Finally, a practice question along the lines of one recently asked by Rod > : when it comes to filling out forms, does anyone have experience with > software that would enable one to digitize a form, i.e., scan it into a > computer, then fill it out and print it, without altering the form's > original format or look. Also, does any such software allow the user to > read the form, in addition to what he/ she has written? Thank you in > advance for your responces. > > Ben Karpilow > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net From pattichang at att.net Wed Dec 2 12:45:54 2009 From: pattichang at att.net (Patti Gregory-Chang) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 06:45:54 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] state computer system case References: <66954123AD474303BCB4E25041063AC8@D3J75Z91> <4B160B21.60805@ameritech.net> Message-ID: Thanks. P.S. National Federation of the Blind of Illinois is now on twitter at www.twitter.com/nfbi. We also have a facebook page. Just search for our full name. Patti Gregory-Chang President, National Federation of the Blind of Illinois pattichang at att.net www.nfbofillinois.org ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Reif" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 12:37 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] state computer system case Hi Patti and list, I believe the caption of the case is: Jim W. Thatcher, National Federation of the Blind (NFB) v The State of Arkansas. Our final Press Release is below. PA sued the same software company. Bill Reif National Federation of the Blind of Arkansas Agrees to Settlement of Lawsuit Over Accessibility of Software to Blind State Employees Little Rock, Arkansas (August 11, 2008): The National Federation of the Blind of Arkansas and two blind state employees have agreed to a settlement among themselves, the state of Arkansas, and software provider SAP Public Services, Inc. The agreement resolves a lawsuit brought by blind state employees in 2001 because the blind could not access the Arkansas Administrative Statewide Information System (AASIS). The state, in turn, brought suit against SAP, which had substantially designed AASIS. Under the agreement, SAP will upgrade AASIS to include accessibility features that will allow blind state employees using text-to-speech screen access technology to perform employment functions using AASIS. The upgrade is to be in place by August 1, 2009. Chris McKenzie, president of the National Federation of the Blind of Arkansas, said: “We are pleased that the state of Arkansas and SAP are taking steps to ensure that blind state employees will be able to perform their jobs efficiently and effectively using the same tools as all other state employees. We will continue to monitor the situation until we are certain that all of the necessary functions of AASIS are fully accessible to blind employees of this state.” Dustin McDaniel, attorney general of the state of Arkansas, said: “We are pleased with the settlement that was reached in this matter and are glad to put this lengthy litigation behind us. It was a good resolution for the State as well as blind state employees who will now have equal access to the State's computer system." Patti Gregory-Chang wrote: > I know that there was a big computer access case against a state, maybe > Arizona or Arkansas, in the past few years. Does anyone know the name of > the case or have a copy of the settlement if any? > > P.S. National Federation of the Blind of Illinois is now on twitter at > www.twitter.com/nfbi. > We also have a facebook page. Just search for our full name. > > Patti Gregory-Chang > President, National Federation of the Blind of Illinois > pattichang at att.net > www.nfbofillinois.org > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/billreif%40ameritech.net > _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pattichang%40att.net From attorney at alcidonislaw.com Wed Dec 2 13:21:55 2009 From: attorney at alcidonislaw.com (Rod Alcidonis) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 08:21:55 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Congrads Ben on passing the bar In-Reply-To: References: <20091201.125747.428.71023@mailpop05.vgs.untd.com><85DE4073835C47F28015FC74C33ED11D@valtd><65B1F3660CE04287A5CB73EECD6595A3@none8a46117901><75A7E3060F8F4054BD7ECE1CB762B66A@D3J75Z91> Message-ID: Ben: Congrads on passing the bar. Rod Alcidonis Attorney and Counselor at Law Philadelphia, PA Licensed in PA -- NJ pending C. 718-704-4651 Attorney at alcidonislaw.com "A lawyer is either a social engineer or a parasite." - Charles Hamilton Houston -------------------------------------------------- From: "Ben Karpilow" Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 10:08 PM To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > Hello fello listers, > > first of all, I'm happy to report I passed the july 2009 california bar > examination on my first attempt. I managed to secure an electronic version > of the MBE's thanks to a pilot program run by the NCBE. I understand a > lawsuit has been filed on behalf of a blind law student to make this > accomidation available as a matter of law to qualified bar candidates. I > understand the plaintiff is is being represented by a fellow lister.Good > luck, and please keep us updated as to developments in this case. > > On the subject of air travel, I recall there being an extensive document > posted not too long ago on this list which contained precisely the type of > information that was the subject of Mr. Weisberg's original inquiry. > Perhaps it would be helpful for the original sender, whose name I cannot > remember, to repost the information. > > Finally, a practice question along the lines of one recently asked by Rod > : when it comes to filling out forms, does anyone have experience with > software that would enable one to digitize a form, i.e., scan it into a > computer, then fill it out and print it, without altering the form's > original format or look. Also, does any such software allow the user to > read the form, in addition to what he/ she has written? Thank you in > advance for your responces. > > Ben Karpilow > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Patti Gregory-Chang" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 5:16 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > > >>I am travelling more and more alone and my bigger issue sometimes is when >>they are too helpful. I know O'Hare quite well and sometimes new people >>just won't accept that I can travel alone in United's terminal no matter >>how nice I am about telling them. >> >> P.S. National Federation of the Blind of Illinois is now on twitter at >> www.twitter.com/nfbi. >> We also have a facebook page. Just search for our full name. >> >> Patti Gregory-Chang >> President, National Federation of the Blind of Illinois >> pattichang at att.net >> www.nfbofillinois.org >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Ross Doerr" >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 6:12 PM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel >> >> >>> Hi - >>> I would go on to add only one or two observations here - first, it >>> helps to call and remind the air carrier of your pre-arrangements. >>> Sometimes they just plain misplace them or forget. >>> Second, I have much better luck dealing with my air carrier rather than >>> asking the T S A for any kind of help in any way. >>> I have found that old joke of: "T S A stands for "thousands standing >>> around"" to be, sadly, accurate at times. It is not their job to help >>> disabled passengers and they make certain that they do their job. >>> I travel alone by air a lot and find the airlines to be pretty good >>> about things. Having said this, I don't trust them to be flawless. >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc." >>> >>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 5:52 PM >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel >>> >>> >>>> Hi Patrick: >>>> >>>> I have experienced no complications traveling alone by air. The >>>> airline >>>> staff have been superb and extremely helpful. They've helped me with >>>> boarding details and even shown me how to PUT ON AN OXYGEN MASK in the >>>> event >>>> that one drops during an emergency. >>>> >>>> Here in Denver, a non ticketed individual has accompanied me to the >>>> gate. >>>> When I got there, the airline in question takes over. If there is no >>>> such >>>> individual available to accompany me, I have been met at the CHECK-IN >>>> counter by airline staff and they have helped me all the way. The >>>> caveat is >>>> to ensure that these arrangements are in place at the time you purchase >>>> your >>>> ticket. Otherwise, the airline MAY NOT NECESSARILY be well prepared! >>>> >>>> >>>> All in all, my experience traveling by myself has been great, not just >>>> on >>>> airlines, but even on cruise lines! >>>> >>>> Sincerely, >>>> Olusegun >>>> Denver, Colorado >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rumpole%40roadrunner.com >>> >>> >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> >>> >>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>> Version: 8.5.426 / Virus Database: 270.14.89/2539 - Release Date: >>> 12/01/09 19:32:00 >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pattichang%40att.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/benkarpilow%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/attorney%40alcidonislaw.com From Yasmin.Reyazuddin at montgomerycountymd.gov Wed Dec 2 13:22:57 2009 From: Yasmin.Reyazuddin at montgomerycountymd.gov (Reyazuddin, Yasmin) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 08:22:57 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel In-Reply-To: <20091201.125747.428.71023@mailpop05.vgs.untd.com> Message-ID: Hi Patrick I just returned back from India, and I can give you the international view on this matter. The airlines are supposed to know about your travel plans. I got assistance getting to the security points and beyond. At the same time in London I was told something interesting. When we purchase the ticket we can select our meals and the seat in advance. We need to inform about needing assistance. Under the disability we could say (wheelchair R,) meaning we just need assistance with getting from point to point. If we choose (wheelchair S) it will mean that we need a wheelchair and we will need assistance if aircraft is reached by climbing steps. TSA is not very helpful in working with blind passengers. One security guard snatched my passport and ticket out of my hand without asking or informing me about it. Of course, I screamed and then she asked by looks from a fellow passenger. I gave her some harsh words and she left. Yasmin Reyazuddin Information & Referral unit Department of Health & human services 401 Hungerford Drive (1st floor) Rockville MD 20850 Phone 240-777-1245 (info line) 240-777-1556 (personal line) Fax: 240-777-4636 TTY: 240-777-1295 Office hours 8:30 am to 5:00 pm Languages English, Hindi, Urdu This message may contain protected health information or other information that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by return mail and destroy any copies of this material. Thank you. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of stiehm.law Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 3:58 PM To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org Cc: blindlaw at nfbnet.org Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel In addition to the airlines, I have recently become curious as to what if any, accommodations for the TSA makes with respect to disabled people going through security and being picked up by somebody at the gate at the terminal at the other end of the flight. For example, do they permit a blind person who is traveling alone to be accompanied through security, down to the airline check-in counter at the gate by a non-ticketed person. At the other end, is a non-ticketed person permitted through security to go to the gate to meet a blind person flying alone? If TSA does not provide for such accommodations do the airlines take it on themselves to provide this service? Has anybody had any experience in this regard? Is the accommodation, if any, voluntary on the part of the TSA and/or the airlines or is it governed by regulation? Patrick H. Stiehm Stiehm Law Office Alexandria, VA 22309 703-360-1089 (Voice) 703-935-8266 (Fax) Tue, 1 Dec 2009 11:30:37 -0800 "Russell J. Thomas, Jr." writes: > Off the top of my head, and without any new research, the only case > I > remember is a case challenging the accessibility of airline websites > with > respect to attempting to make reservations and ordering tickets on > line. > > I also think that there are regulations on the subject, especially > dealing > with how disabled passengers are to be treated (or perhaps on some > occasions > mistreated). > > I often thought it would be a good idea for the NFB to put together > a short > guide book concerning travel, including air travel, based upon > experiences > of NFB members, to be used as a reference guide for blind people who > use air > travel. Certainly things have changed since 911--some changes for > the good, > and others not so good. > > > > > Respectfully, > > > > Russell J. Thomas, Jr. > > THOMAS & ASSOCIATES > > www.californiaemployersattorneys.com > > > > Orange County Office > > 4121 Westerly Place, Suite 101 > > Newport Beach, California 92660 > > T: (949) 752-0101 > > F: (949) 257-4756 > > M: (949) 466-7238 > > > > Beverly Hills Office > > 9107 Wilshire Boulevard, Suite 450 > > Beverly Hills, California 90210 > > T: (310) 461-3561 > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of James Weisberg > Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 10:01 AM > To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' > Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > > Hi Folks: > > > > Anyone on the lists have experience or knowledge regarding the ADA > and suits > against air carriers for violations available for quick consult? > Thanks. > > > > James W. Weisberg, Esq. > > Law Office of J. William Weisberg > > 299 South Patencio Road #3 > > Palm Springs, California 92262 > > V: 916.425.1010 > > F: 916.374.7667 > > E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com > > Admitted in Wisconsin > > Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil > Rights > Advocacy for Children with Diabetes > > This message contains information which may be confidential and > privileged. > Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the > addressee), > you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any > information > contained in this message. If you have received this message in > error, > please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from > your > system. > > This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client > relationship > nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William > Weisberg > expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information > in > accordance with this disclaimer. > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rthomas%40rjtl a wfi > rm.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stiehm.law%40j u no.com > ____________________________________________________________ Hotel Hotel pics, info and virtual tours. Click here to book a hotel online. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/c?cp=ewJKbyZ61QloDsW_i_oQ_wAAJ1 BdROy9vkzpR6E_Fj7jZTbnAAYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAATRAAAAA A= _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/yasmin.reyazud din%40montgomerycountymd.gov From stiehm.law at juno.com Wed Dec 2 14:27:07 2009 From: stiehm.law at juno.com (stiehm.law) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 09:27:07 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel Message-ID: <20091202.062746.16959.73094@mailpop08.vgs.untd.com> Thank you to everyone who provided in put on the assistance that is available during air travel and at the airport. It was really most informative. Patrick H. Stiehm Stiehm Law Office Alexandria, VA 22309 703-360-1089 (Voice) 703-935-8266 (Fax) ____________________________________________________________ Love Spell Click here to light up your life with a love spell! http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/c?cp=CI1jo0JpDt36YkyFk2AXDQAAJ1BdROy9vkzpR6E_Fj7jZTbnAAYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARwAAAAA= From Tim.Ford at cdph.ca.gov Wed Dec 2 16:00:01 2009 From: Tim.Ford at cdph.ca.gov (Ford, Tim (CDPH-OLS)) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 08:00:01 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] Confidential Story, state computer system In-Reply-To: References: <66954123AD474303BCB4E25041063AC8@D3J75Z91> Message-ID: <839F18076C66C345BD1C0A4ACA67A1F60413E549@dhsexcmsg12.intra.dhs.ca.gov> Hi All, Before I go any further, I would prefer that the following be kept among ourselves and not forwarded to other lists; I could perhaps get a bit of flack for telling what is essentially an inside story. So if you cannot honor that, please stop here and delete this message. I have a little story from here in California state government that bears on this issue of inaccessible state government computer systems. Back some years ago, we started having to use a new travel claim system. That same process is also for reimbursement of small expenditures that an employee paid for out of their own money but was for official purposes. Anyway, the system was not accessible. Our state rehabilitation agency solved the problem by sticking with its own accessible system, but that left behind blind employees like myself who worked for other agencies. So I started checking in to it, and after a number of non-returned phone calls, I finally got the name and contact information for the head guy. He was very candid, and explained the significant efforts he had gone to trying to figure out a solution to the access problem. After our phone call, he even went so far as to contract with a blind computer tech expert I referred him to, and that expert verified that the access problem could not be solved due to fundamental limitations inherent in the old system. I put the matter aside, and several months later, the guy called me out of the blue to tell me that they had just received permission to fund a purchase of the newer generation of the travel claim software, and that fixing the accessibility problem was the specific goal of the purchase. When I asked him how much it cost, the price was somewhere around $700,000. I choked a bit, and told him I felt a bit bad that the fix was so expensive. He chuckled a bit, then told me that he had been trying for several years to get the new software system, for all sorts of non-accessible reasons, and had always been refused. However, when after my phone call he raised the access issue, the purchase was approved. So he thanked me very much for giving him the idea of the approach that actually turned the tide. Now to put this all in perspective. This new computer system was for all of state government, several hundred thousand users in all, and the upgrade was sorely needed since the base platform was over a decade old, even prior to Windows XP, and the cost per user was something like three dollars. So this turned out to be a win-win situation, and in this case, I found the irony of the situation to make for a good yarn, and that as they say, is the rest of the story. Sincerely, Tim Ford From timandvickie at hotmail.com Wed Dec 2 16:40:55 2009 From: timandvickie at hotmail.com (Tim Shaw) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 16:40:55 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] state computer system case In-Reply-To: References: <66954123AD474303BCB4E25041063AC8@D3J75Z91>, <20091202023833.rwayne1@nyc.rr.com>, , Message-ID: ah yes that particular system is a pain even for a sighted person > Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 01:43:40 -0600 > To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org > From: dandrews at visi.com > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] state computer system case > > I believe the Texas suit was over the system the state uses where > employees have to enter time worked, and other HR matters. I believe > it was a Peoplesoft application -- they are now owned by Oracle. > > Dave > > At 10:28 PM 12/1/2009, you wrote: > > >The disability determination services agency in Texas as a system > >they use that isnt accessible so blind people cant work for them, > >but they blame it on the IRS whos program they are using. > > > > > From: rwayne1 at nyc.rr.com > > > To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > > Date: Tue, 1 Dec 2009 21:38:33 -0500 > > > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] state computer system case > > > > > > Patti: > > > I think they were in Arkansas and Pennsylvania, but that's all I > > know. We have one in progress in New York, which BGL is handling. I > > know the plaintiff, but I must admit I've fallen out of the loop as > > to the status of the case. > > > Ray > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Patti Gregory-Chang" > > > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > > > Date: Tuesday, Dec 1, 2009 20:50:47 > > > Subject: [bllaw] state computer system case > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I know that there was a big computer access case against a state, maybe > > > > Arizona or Arkansas, in the past few years. Does anyone know the name of > > > > the case or have a copy of the settlement if any? > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/timandvickie%40hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ Chat with Messenger straight from your Hotmail inbox. http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowslive/hotmail_bl1/hotmail_bl1.aspx?ocid=PID23879::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-ww:WM_IMHM_4:092009 From jimi-law at dc.rr.com Wed Dec 2 16:44:50 2009 From: jimi-law at dc.rr.com (James Weisberg) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 08:44:50 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] follow up on ADA and Air Travel Message-ID: As the original poster of this thread I wanted to point out the reason for my inquiry was not related to accommodations but rather being publicly humiliated by air carrier staff (stew) which of course is a common carrier and that's a big "no no." Since the humiliation was based upon the presence of a guide dog the ADA first came to mind. Finally, Ben you rock dude!! James W. Weisberg, Esq. Law Office of J. William Weisberg 299 South Patencio Road #3 Palm Springs, California 92262 V: 916.425.1010 F: 916.374.7667 E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com Admitted in Wisconsin Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil Rights Advocacy for Children with Diabetes This message contains information which may be confidential and privileged. Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from your system. This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client relationship nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William Weisberg expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in accordance with this disclaimer. From jimi-law at dc.rr.com Wed Dec 2 16:45:45 2009 From: jimi-law at dc.rr.com (James Weisberg) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 08:45:45 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] further Message-ID: OH, and I'm going the federal court route . . . naturally. James W. Weisberg, Esq. Law Office of J. William Weisberg 299 South Patencio Road #3 Palm Springs, California 92262 V: 916.425.1010 F: 916.374.7667 E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com Admitted in Wisconsin Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil Rights Advocacy for Children with Diabetes This message contains information which may be confidential and privileged. Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from your system. This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client relationship nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William Weisberg expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in accordance with this disclaimer. From jimi-law at dc.rr.com Wed Dec 2 16:52:39 2009 From: jimi-law at dc.rr.com (James Weisberg) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 08:52:39 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] Confidential Story, state computer system In-Reply-To: <839F18076C66C345BD1C0A4ACA67A1F60413E549@dhsexcmsg12.intra.dhs.ca.gov> References: <66954123AD474303BCB4E25041063AC8@D3J75Z91> <839F18076C66C345BD1C0A4ACA67A1F60413E549@dhsexcmsg12.intra.dhs.ca.gov> Message-ID: <7644025F768E4B439212EA4897383630@screnci.local> Hey Tim: Can you get me a new laptop? :-) James W. Weisberg, Esq. Law Office of J. William Weisberg 299 South Patencio Road #3 Palm Springs, California 92262 V: 916.425.1010 F: 916.374.7667 E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com Admitted in Wisconsin Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil Rights Advocacy for Children with Diabetes This message contains information which may be confidential and privileged. Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from your system. This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client relationship nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William Weisberg expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in accordance with this disclaimer. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ford, Tim (CDPH-OLS) Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 8:00 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: [blindlaw] Confidential Story, state computer system Hi All, Before I go any further, I would prefer that the following be kept among ourselves and not forwarded to other lists; I could perhaps get a bit of flack for telling what is essentially an inside story. So if you cannot honor that, please stop here and delete this message. I have a little story from here in California state government that bears on this issue of inaccessible state government computer systems. Back some years ago, we started having to use a new travel claim system. That same process is also for reimbursement of small expenditures that an employee paid for out of their own money but was for official purposes. Anyway, the system was not accessible. Our state rehabilitation agency solved the problem by sticking with its own accessible system, but that left behind blind employees like myself who worked for other agencies. So I started checking in to it, and after a number of non-returned phone calls, I finally got the name and contact information for the head guy. He was very candid, and explained the significant efforts he had gone to trying to figure out a solution to the access problem. After our phone call, he even went so far as to contract with a blind computer tech expert I referred him to, and that expert verified that the access problem could not be solved due to fundamental limitations inherent in the old system. I put the matter aside, and several months later, the guy called me out of the blue to tell me that they had just received permission to fund a purchase of the newer generation of the travel claim software, and that fixing the accessibility problem was the specific goal of the purchase. When I asked him how much it cost, the price was somewhere around $700,000. I choked a bit, and told him I felt a bit bad that the fix was so expensive. He chuckled a bit, then told me that he had been trying for several years to get the new software system, for all sorts of non-accessible reasons, and had always been refused. However, when after my phone call he raised the access issue, the purchase was approved. So he thanked me very much for giving him the idea of the approach that actually turned the tide. Now to put this all in perspective. This new computer system was for all of state government, several hundred thousand users in all, and the upgrade was sorely needed since the base platform was over a decade old, even prior to Windows XP, and the cost per user was something like three dollars. So this turned out to be a win-win situation, and in this case, I found the irony of the situation to make for a good yarn, and that as they say, is the rest of the story. Sincerely, Tim Ford _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jimi-law%40dc.rr.c om __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4655 (20091202) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4655 (20091202) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4655 (20091202) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com From mruniverse08 at gmail.com Wed Dec 2 16:59:02 2009 From: mruniverse08 at gmail.com (WB) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 10:59:02 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] state computer system case In-Reply-To: References: <66954123AD474303BCB4E25041063AC8@D3J75Z91>, <20091202023833.rwayne1@nyc.rr.com>, , Message-ID: <021f01ca7370$c03b8ce0$40b2a6a0$@com> Are they still working on the time system? -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Tim Shaw Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 10:41 AM To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org Subject: Re: [blindlaw] state computer system case ah yes that particular system is a pain even for a sighted person > Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 01:43:40 -0600 > To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org > From: dandrews at visi.com > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] state computer system case > > I believe the Texas suit was over the system the state uses where > employees have to enter time worked, and other HR matters. I believe > it was a Peoplesoft application -- they are now owned by Oracle. > > Dave > > At 10:28 PM 12/1/2009, you wrote: > > >The disability determination services agency in Texas as a system > >they use that isnt accessible so blind people cant work for them, > >but they blame it on the IRS whos program they are using. > > > > > From: rwayne1 at nyc.rr.com > > > To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > > Date: Tue, 1 Dec 2009 21:38:33 -0500 > > > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] state computer system case > > > > > > Patti: > > > I think they were in Arkansas and Pennsylvania, but that's all I > > know. We have one in progress in New York, which BGL is handling. I > > know the plaintiff, but I must admit I've fallen out of the loop as > > to the status of the case. > > > Ray > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Patti Gregory-Chang" > > > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > > > Date: Tuesday, Dec 1, 2009 20:50:47 > > > Subject: [bllaw] state computer system case > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I know that there was a big computer access case against a state, maybe > > > > Arizona or Arkansas, in the past few years. Does anyone know the name of > > > > the case or have a copy of the settlement if any? > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/timandvickie%40hot mail.com _________________________________________________________________ Chat with Messenger straight from your Hotmail inbox. http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowslive/hotmail_bl1/hotmail_bl1.aspx?oc id=PID23879::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-ww:WM_IMHM_4:092009 _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniverse08%40gma il.com From angie.matney at gmail.com Wed Dec 2 17:17:34 2009 From: angie.matney at gmail.com (Angie Matney) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 12:17:34 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Confidential Story, state computer system In-Reply-To: <839F18076C66C345BD1C0A4ACA67A1F60413E549@dhsexcmsg12.intra.dhs.ca.gov> References: <66954123AD474303BCB4E25041063AC8@D3J75Z91> <839F18076C66C345BD1C0A4ACA67A1F60413E549@dhsexcmsg12.intra.dhs.ca.gov> Message-ID: <08E32850852243778D8B2DF05E8FB575@arm4rPC> Hi, This list does have a public archive. Angie From jimi-law at dc.rr.com Wed Dec 2 17:25:38 2009 From: jimi-law at dc.rr.com (James Weisberg) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 09:25:38 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] ada and air travel follow-up Message-ID: As the original poster of this thread I wanted to point out the reason for my inquiry was not related to accommodations but rather being publicly humiliated by air carrier staff (stew) which of course is a common carrier and that's a big "no no." Since the humiliation was based upon the presence of a guide dog the ADA first came to mind. Finally, Ben you rock dude!! James W. Weisberg, Esq. Law Office of J. William Weisberg 299 South Patencio Road #3 Palm Springs, California 92262 V: 916.425.1010 F: 916.374.7667 E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com Admitted in Wisconsin Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil Rights Advocacy for Children with Diabetes This message contains information which may be confidential and privileged. Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from your system. This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client relationship nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William Weisberg expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in accordance with this disclaimer. From AZNOR99 at aol.com Wed Dec 2 17:24:41 2009 From: AZNOR99 at aol.com (AZNOR99 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 12:24:41 EST Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel Message-ID: Hello, This is an interesting subject. TSA is generally not responsible for providing a traveler with a guide as a passenger goes through screening. You can always request a Companion Pass from the airline for someone to accompany you; however, it is at the discretion of the airline as to whether or not they grant this request. Most do grant the Pass as long as you give them a valid reason, and most accept accompanying a minor or passenger with a disability or elderly individual as a valid reason. You can request a Companion Pass from the airline at the time of check-in if you bring someone with you to drop you off - you don't necessarily have to let the airline know in advance that you plan to do this. If you want someone to meet you at the gate when you arrive though, you'll need to let the airline know in advance. This is because you won't actually be with the person when they obtain the Companion Pass, so the airline can't verify that they know you or that you'd want them to pick you up. Companions are subject to the same screening and security measures as passengers - valid State or Federal ID, human and belonging scans, etc. TSA does not have jurisdiction over Companion Pass issuance - that is at the discretion of the airlines - they are subject to the regs of the FAA. You can ask for a Guide at the airport as well. Generally airlines prefer you do this in advance, but you can certainly choose to make such a request when you arrive at the airport or land at your destination. If you don't let them know you need someone in advance though, you might have to wait longer for someone to arrive, as airlines try to have staff waiting for passengers about whom they know. We've all seen the line of wheel chairs and uniformed staff waiting when we deplane? Well, they're each usually assigned to a particular person, and they usually know who that person is ahead of time. Airlines, and sometimes airports, are increasingly creating "Passenger Assistance Departments," and escorting passengers is one of their primary functions. There are some airports that utilize the airport police or other airport staff as escorts rather than airline personnel. Sometimes this is because it is incredibly difficult to credential staff for all areas of an airport, which such staff need to possess. Sometimes it may be a small airport, and it would be more efficient to assign escort responsibilities to one person for all the airlines. Or there might be other reasons. However, TSOs - Transportation Security Officers) are trained in how to interact with disabled passengers. For example, if you place your cane on the conveyer belt, a TSO may offer to position you prior to entering the human scanner and reach out to hold your hands to guide you forward. Due to the nature of the scanning equipment, a passenger must not touch the scanning machine - it will not function properly if anything comes into contact with it. Some of us have had the experience of bumping the machine and setting it off in the past. If you run your cane through the baggage scanner and ask for it back to take through the human scanner, you have to be very careful, once again, not to tap the scanner walls with the cane - it will likely set the machine off. Also, if your cane has metal - many of us use metal tips - then it may cause the scanner to go off, necessitating the individual be referred to secondary screening or wanding. I've personally had the experience of placing my cane on the baggage scanning belt and walking toward the human scanner. I walked through the scanner very slowly and did not set it off. However, I was referred to secondary. I always ask why I'm being referred to Secondary (I'm in the business of wanting to know if I'm being discriminated against because of my religion, national origin, or disability). The answer I usually get (not always though, and I've got some funny stories about other times) is "it's random." I conveyed to the TSO that I could not move to the secondary screening area until someone retrieved my cane from the conveyer belt. He got it for me and asked, "Oh, is the reason you moved so slowly through the scanner because you are blind?" I answered that it was, and he told me I was free to go. I insisted on going to Secondary, and he said, "Well you don't need to. Your behavior isn't suspicious. I just thought it was because I didn't know you were being careful not to bump the machine since you couldn't see well." Part of their jobs as TSOs is to monitor suspicious behavior; part of my job is to convey the difference between suspicious behavior and cultural norms. Needless to say I insisted on going to Secondary because I wanted the chance to talk the issue through with the TSO. It was a teachable moment, and I think he really got there could be hundreds of reasons why someone might move slowly through a machine. But for those that have had really bad experiences at TSA or CBP checkpoints, there are a couple of different avenues you can take. If you believe you have been the subject of discrimination, you may file a CRCL (DHS Office for Civil Rights and Civil Liberties - and where I work) complaint. Go to _www.dhs.gov/civilliberties_ (http://www.dhs.gov/civilliberties) to download the form or send an email to _civil.liberties at dhs.gov_ (mailto:civil.liberties at dhs.gov) explaining what happened. Please be sure to give as much detail as possible, including the date, airport name, terminal number, time of day, the name of anyone you obtain, and a narrative explaining what happened. If you have a customer service issue - for example a TSO was rude or dismissive, you may ask for a supervisor, a comment card, or both. You can also contact your local field office after the fact to convey what happened. My message is substantially longer than I intended, and I apologize for the length. Regards, Ronza In a message dated 12/2/2009 4:25:21 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, ckrugman at sbcglobal.net writes: I travel frequently alone and the air lines and/or HSA provide needed assistence upon my request. including through security check points and picking up baggage and assistence with procuring ground transportation or to a waiting party. I have found HSA and airport staff to be very cooperative. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "stiehm.law" To: Cc: Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 12:57 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > In addition to the airlines, I have recently become curious as to what if > any, accommodations for the TSA makes with respect to disabled people > going through security and being picked up by somebody at the gate at the > terminal at the other end of the flight. For example, do they permit a > blind person who is traveling alone to be accompanied through security, > down to the airline check-in counter at the gate by a non-ticketed > person. > > At the other end, is a non-ticketed person permitted through security to > go to the gate to meet a blind person flying alone? > > If TSA does not provide for such accommodations do the airlines take it > on themselves to provide this service? > > Has anybody had any experience in this regard? Is the accommodation, if > any, voluntary on the part of the TSA and/or the airlines or is it > governed by regulation? > > Patrick H. Stiehm > Stiehm Law Office > Alexandria, VA 22309 > 703-360-1089 (Voice) > 703-935-8266 (Fax) > > > > Tue, 1 Dec 2009 11:30:37 -0800 "Russell J. Thomas, Jr." > writes: >> Off the top of my head, and without any new research, the only case >> I >> remember is a case challenging the accessibility of airline websites >> with >> respect to attempting to make reservations and ordering tickets on >> line. >> >> I also think that there are regulations on the subject, especially >> dealing >> with how disabled passengers are to be treated (or perhaps on some >> occasions >> mistreated). >> >> I often thought it would be a good idea for the NFB to put together >> a short >> guide book concerning travel, including air travel, based upon >> experiences >> of NFB members, to be used as a reference guide for blind people who >> use air >> travel. Certainly things have changed since 911--some changes for >> the good, >> and others not so good. >> >> >> >> >> Respectfully, >> >> >> >> Russell J. Thomas, Jr. >> >> THOMAS & ASSOCIATES >> >> www.californiaemployersattorneys.com >> >> >> >> Orange County Office >> >> 4121 Westerly Place, Suite 101 >> >> Newport Beach, California 92660 >> >> T: (949) 752-0101 >> >> F: (949) 257-4756 >> >> M: (949) 466-7238 >> >> >> >> Beverly Hills Office >> >> 9107 Wilshire Boulevard, Suite 450 >> >> Beverly Hills, California 90210 >> >> T: (310) 461-3561 >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf Of James Weisberg >> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 10:01 AM >> To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' >> Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel >> >> Hi Folks: >> >> >> >> Anyone on the lists have experience or knowledge regarding the ADA >> and suits >> against air carriers for violations available for quick consult? >> Thanks. >> >> >> >> James W. Weisberg, Esq. >> >> Law Office of J. William Weisberg >> >> 299 South Patencio Road #3 >> >> Palm Springs, California 92262 >> >> V: 916.425.1010 >> >> F: 916.374.7667 >> >> E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com >> >> Admitted in Wisconsin >> >> Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil >> Rights >> Advocacy for Children with Diabetes >> >> This message contains information which may be confidential and >> privileged. >> Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the >> addressee), >> you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any >> information >> contained in this message. If you have received this message in >> error, >> please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from >> your >> system. >> >> This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client >> relationship >> nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William >> Weisberg >> expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information >> in >> accordance with this disclaimer. >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for >> blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rthomas%40rjtla > wfi >> rm.com >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stiehm.law%40ju > no.com >> > > ____________________________________________________________ > Hotel > Hotel pics, info and virtual tours. Click here to book a hotel online. > http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/c?cp=ewJKbyZ61QloDsW_i_oQ_wAAJ1BdROy9vkzpR6E_Fj7jZTbnAAYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAATRAAAAAA= > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/aznor99%40aol.com From jimi-law at dc.rr.com Wed Dec 2 17:30:22 2009 From: jimi-law at dc.rr.com (James Weisberg) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 09:30:22 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] ada and air travel follow-up Message-ID: As the original poster of this thread I wanted to point out the reason for my inquiry was not related to accommodations but rather being publicly humiliated by air carrier staff (stew) which of course is a common carrier and that's a big "no no." Since the humiliation was based upon the presence of a guide dog the ADA first came to mind. Finally, Ben you rock dude!! James W. Weisberg, Esq. Law Office of J. William Weisberg 299 South Patencio Road #3 Palm Springs, California 92262 V: 916.425.1010 F: 916.374.7667 E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com Admitted in Wisconsin Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil Rights Advocacy for Children with Diabetes This message contains information which may be confidential and privileged. Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from your system. This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client relationship nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William Weisberg expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in accordance with this disclaimer. From jimi-law at dc.rr.com Wed Dec 2 18:01:26 2009 From: jimi-law at dc.rr.com (James Weisberg) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 10:01:26 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel In-Reply-To: <20091201.125747.428.71023@mailpop05.vgs.untd.com> References: <20091201.125747.428.71023@mailpop05.vgs.untd.com> Message-ID: As the original poster of this thread I wanted to point out the reason for my inquiry was not related to accommodations but rather being publicly humiliated by air carrier staff (stew) which of course is a common carrier and that's a big "no no." Since the humiliation was based upon the presence of a guide dog the ADA first came to mind. Finally, Ben you rock dude!! James W. Weisberg, Esq. Law Office of J. William Weisberg 299 South Patencio Road #3 Palm Springs, California 92262 V: 916.425.1010 F: 916.374.7667 E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com Admitted in Wisconsin Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil Rights Advocacy for Children with Diabetes This message contains information which may be confidential and privileged. Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from your system. This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client relationship nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William Weisberg expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in accordance with this disclaimer. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of stiehm.law Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 12:58 PM To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org Cc: blindlaw at nfbnet.org Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel In addition to the airlines, I have recently become curious as to what if any, accommodations for the TSA makes with respect to disabled people going through security and being picked up by somebody at the gate at the terminal at the other end of the flight. For example, do they permit a blind person who is traveling alone to be accompanied through security, down to the airline check-in counter at the gate by a non-ticketed person. At the other end, is a non-ticketed person permitted through security to go to the gate to meet a blind person flying alone? If TSA does not provide for such accommodations do the airlines take it on themselves to provide this service? Has anybody had any experience in this regard? Is the accommodation, if any, voluntary on the part of the TSA and/or the airlines or is it governed by regulation? Patrick H. Stiehm Stiehm Law Office Alexandria, VA 22309 703-360-1089 (Voice) 703-935-8266 (Fax) Tue, 1 Dec 2009 11:30:37 -0800 "Russell J. Thomas, Jr." writes: > Off the top of my head, and without any new research, the only case > I > remember is a case challenging the accessibility of airline websites > with > respect to attempting to make reservations and ordering tickets on > line. > > I also think that there are regulations on the subject, especially > dealing > with how disabled passengers are to be treated (or perhaps on some > occasions > mistreated). > > I often thought it would be a good idea for the NFB to put together > a short > guide book concerning travel, including air travel, based upon > experiences > of NFB members, to be used as a reference guide for blind people who > use air > travel. Certainly things have changed since 911--some changes for > the good, > and others not so good. > > > > > Respectfully, > > > > Russell J. Thomas, Jr. > > THOMAS & ASSOCIATES > > www.californiaemployersattorneys.com > > > > Orange County Office > > 4121 Westerly Place, Suite 101 > > Newport Beach, California 92660 > > T: (949) 752-0101 > > F: (949) 257-4756 > > M: (949) 466-7238 > > > > Beverly Hills Office > > 9107 Wilshire Boulevard, Suite 450 > > Beverly Hills, California 90210 > > T: (310) 461-3561 > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of James Weisberg > Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 10:01 AM > To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' > Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > > Hi Folks: > > > > Anyone on the lists have experience or knowledge regarding the ADA > and suits > against air carriers for violations available for quick consult? > Thanks. > > > > James W. Weisberg, Esq. > > Law Office of J. William Weisberg > > 299 South Patencio Road #3 > > Palm Springs, California 92262 > > V: 916.425.1010 > > F: 916.374.7667 > > E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com > > Admitted in Wisconsin > > Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil > Rights > Advocacy for Children with Diabetes > > This message contains information which may be confidential and > privileged. > Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the > addressee), > you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any > information > contained in this message. If you have received this message in > error, > please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from > your > system. > > This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client > relationship > nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William > Weisberg > expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information > in > accordance with this disclaimer. > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rthomas%40rjtla wfi > rm.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stiehm.law%40ju no.com > ____________________________________________________________ Hotel Hotel pics, info and virtual tours. Click here to book a hotel online. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/c?cp=ewJKbyZ61QloDsW_i_oQ_wAAJ1BdRO y9vkzpR6E_Fj7jZTbnAAYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAATRAAAAAA= _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jimi-law%40dc.rr.c om __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4652 (20091201) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4652 (20091201) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4653 (20091201) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4655 (20091202) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4655 (20091202) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com From benkarpilow at gmail.com Wed Dec 2 18:01:02 2009 From: benkarpilow at gmail.com (Ben Karpilow) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 10:01:02 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] Bar Exam/ Air travel/ practice question References: <755BC5BBB6924782846D2E4A3F5ADF96@spike> Message-ID: <3E00CAC442384C5EB9971997C576778C@benbpgavlhgwwr> Fantastic, Chuck. Rod, you may want to check this out as well to find out if there is a PAor NJ counterpart. While this will likely meet most of my form needs, and I was referring to all forms in general, my broader question is whether there exists a program like adobe, with which I have very limited experience, which allows one to scan in a document, fill it out, and reprint it without altering the form's original format. Naturally, the program would have to allow the user to read the form-- as well as what gets filled in-- with a screen reader. Will adobe acrobat do this? Is there a cheaper, blind-friendlier alternative? Thanks in advance for the feedback. Ben Karpilow ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 1:55 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Bar Exam/ Air travel/ practice question > congratulations on passing the bar! I'm not what actual forms you're > looking for but you may want to check out Martin Dean's publisher of > California essential forms at www.essentialpublishers.com. I have met with > the distributor at various trade shows through the California Association > of Legal Document Assistants and I am told that the forms should work with > screen reading software. He also told me of a client that uses them with > dictation software as well. This is much less expensive than Legal > Solutions and as that software is going away as we know it this is much > more user friendly. > Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal > 1237 P Street > Fresno ca 93721 > 559-266-9237 > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ben Karpilow" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 6:03 PM > Subject: [blindlaw] Bar Exam/ Air travel/ practice question > > >> Hello fello listers, >> >> first of all, I'm happy to report I passed the july 2009 california bar >> examination on my first attempt. I managed to secure an electronic >> version of the MBE's thanks to a pilot program run by the NCBE. I >> understand a lawsuit has been filed on behalf of a blind law student to >> make this accomidation available as a matter of law to qualified bar >> candidates. I understand the plaintiff is is being represented by a >> fellow lister.Good luck, and please keep us updated as to developments >> in this case. >> >> On the subject of air travel, I recall there being an extensive document >> posted not too long ago on this list which contained precisely the type >> of information that was the subject of Mr. Weisberg's original inquiry. >> Perhaps it would be helpful for the original sender, whose name I cannot >> remember, to repost the information. >> >> Finally, a practice question along the lines of one recently asked by Rod >> : when it comes to filling out forms, does anyone have experience with >> software that would enable one to digitize a form, i.e., scan it into a >> computer, then fill it out and print it, without altering the form's >> original format or look. Also, does any such software allow the user to >> read the form, in addition to what he/ she has written? Thank you in >> advance for your responces. >> >> Ben Karpilow >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/benkarpilow%40gmail.com From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Wed Dec 2 18:01:49 2009 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 10:01:49 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] follow up on ADA and Air Travel In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I know this is reaching but would the humiliation constitute a hate crime under the new Federal hate crimes law? Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal 1237 P Street Fresno ca 93721 559-266-9237 ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Weisberg" To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 8:44 AM Subject: [blindlaw] follow up on ADA and Air Travel > As the original poster of this thread I wanted to point out the reason for > my inquiry was not related to accommodations but rather being publicly > humiliated by air carrier staff (stew) which of course is a common carrier > and that's a big "no no." Since the humiliation was based upon the > presence > of a guide dog the ADA first came to mind. > > > > Finally, Ben you rock dude!! > > > > James W. Weisberg, Esq. > > Law Office of J. William Weisberg > > 299 South Patencio Road #3 > > Palm Springs, California 92262 > > V: 916.425.1010 > > F: 916.374.7667 > > E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com > > Admitted in Wisconsin > > Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil Rights > Advocacy for Children with Diabetes > > This message contains information which may be confidential and > privileged. > Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), > you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information > contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, > please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from your > system. > > This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client > relationship > nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William > Weisberg > expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in > accordance with this disclaimer. > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net From mruniverse08 at gmail.com Wed Dec 2 18:18:10 2009 From: mruniverse08 at gmail.com (WB) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 12:18:10 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel In-Reply-To: References: <20091201.125747.428.71023@mailpop05.vgs.untd.com> Message-ID: <024001ca737b$ce917010$6bb45030$@com> Is this message coming through repeatedly? I've gotten the same one three times already. Is this happening to everyone? -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of James Weisberg Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 12:01 PM To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel As the original poster of this thread I wanted to point out the reason for my inquiry was not related to accommodations but rather being publicly humiliated by air carrier staff (stew) which of course is a common carrier and that's a big "no no." Since the humiliation was based upon the presence of a guide dog the ADA first came to mind. Finally, Ben you rock dude!! James W. Weisberg, Esq. Law Office of J. William Weisberg 299 South Patencio Road #3 Palm Springs, California 92262 V: 916.425.1010 F: 916.374.7667 E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com Admitted in Wisconsin Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil Rights Advocacy for Children with Diabetes This message contains information which may be confidential and privileged. Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from your system. This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client relationship nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William Weisberg expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in accordance with this disclaimer. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of stiehm.law Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 12:58 PM To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org Cc: blindlaw at nfbnet.org Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel In addition to the airlines, I have recently become curious as to what if any, accommodations for the TSA makes with respect to disabled people going through security and being picked up by somebody at the gate at the terminal at the other end of the flight. For example, do they permit a blind person who is traveling alone to be accompanied through security, down to the airline check-in counter at the gate by a non-ticketed person. At the other end, is a non-ticketed person permitted through security to go to the gate to meet a blind person flying alone? If TSA does not provide for such accommodations do the airlines take it on themselves to provide this service? Has anybody had any experience in this regard? Is the accommodation, if any, voluntary on the part of the TSA and/or the airlines or is it governed by regulation? Patrick H. Stiehm Stiehm Law Office Alexandria, VA 22309 703-360-1089 (Voice) 703-935-8266 (Fax) Tue, 1 Dec 2009 11:30:37 -0800 "Russell J. Thomas, Jr." writes: > Off the top of my head, and without any new research, the only case > I > remember is a case challenging the accessibility of airline websites > with > respect to attempting to make reservations and ordering tickets on > line. > > I also think that there are regulations on the subject, especially > dealing > with how disabled passengers are to be treated (or perhaps on some > occasions > mistreated). > > I often thought it would be a good idea for the NFB to put together > a short > guide book concerning travel, including air travel, based upon > experiences > of NFB members, to be used as a reference guide for blind people who > use air > travel. Certainly things have changed since 911--some changes for > the good, > and others not so good. > > > > > Respectfully, > > > > Russell J. Thomas, Jr. > > THOMAS & ASSOCIATES > > www.californiaemployersattorneys.com > > > > Orange County Office > > 4121 Westerly Place, Suite 101 > > Newport Beach, California 92660 > > T: (949) 752-0101 > > F: (949) 257-4756 > > M: (949) 466-7238 > > > > Beverly Hills Office > > 9107 Wilshire Boulevard, Suite 450 > > Beverly Hills, California 90210 > > T: (310) 461-3561 > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of James Weisberg > Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 10:01 AM > To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' > Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > > Hi Folks: > > > > Anyone on the lists have experience or knowledge regarding the ADA > and suits > against air carriers for violations available for quick consult? > Thanks. > > > > James W. Weisberg, Esq. > > Law Office of J. William Weisberg > > 299 South Patencio Road #3 > > Palm Springs, California 92262 > > V: 916.425.1010 > > F: 916.374.7667 > > E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com > > Admitted in Wisconsin > > Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil > Rights > Advocacy for Children with Diabetes > > This message contains information which may be confidential and > privileged. > Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the > addressee), > you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any > information > contained in this message. If you have received this message in > error, > please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from > your > system. > > This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client > relationship > nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William > Weisberg > expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information > in > accordance with this disclaimer. > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rthomas%40rjtla wfi > rm.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stiehm.law%40ju no.com > ____________________________________________________________ Hotel Hotel pics, info and virtual tours. Click here to book a hotel online. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/c?cp=ewJKbyZ61QloDsW_i_oQ_wAAJ1BdRO y9vkzpR6E_Fj7jZTbnAAYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAATRAAAAAA= _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jimi-law%40dc.rr.c om __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4652 (20091201) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4652 (20091201) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4653 (20091201) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4655 (20091202) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4655 (20091202) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniverse08%40gma il.com From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Wed Dec 2 18:34:31 2009 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 10:34:31 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel In-Reply-To: <024001ca737b$ce917010$6bb45030$@com> References: <20091201.125747.428.71023@mailpop05.vgs.untd.com> <024001ca737b$ce917010$6bb45030$@com> Message-ID: <09E1135FBCF5474BA8D47D6949F68A5A@spike> your message has only came through once. The original message from James has been posted three times or so. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "WB" To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 10:18 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > Is this message coming through repeatedly? I've gotten the same one three > times already. Is this happening to everyone? > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of James Weisberg > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 12:01 PM > To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > > As the original poster of this thread I wanted to point out the reason for > my inquiry was not related to accommodations but rather being publicly > humiliated by air carrier staff (stew) which of course is a common carrier > and that's a big "no no." Since the humiliation was based upon the > presence > of a guide dog the ADA first came to mind. > > > > Finally, Ben you rock dude!! > > > James W. Weisberg, Esq. > > Law Office of J. William Weisberg > > 299 South Patencio Road #3 > > Palm Springs, California 92262 > > V: 916.425.1010 > > F: 916.374.7667 > > E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com > > Admitted in Wisconsin > > Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil Rights > Advocacy for Children with Diabetes > > This message contains information which may be confidential and > privileged. > Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), > you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information > contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, > please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from your > system. > > This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client > relationship > nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William > Weisberg > expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in > accordance with this disclaimer. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of stiehm.law > Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 12:58 PM > To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org > Cc: blindlaw at nfbnet.org > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > > In addition to the airlines, I have recently become curious as to what if > any, accommodations for the TSA makes with respect to disabled people > going through security and being picked up by somebody at the gate at the > terminal at the other end of the flight. For example, do they permit a > blind person who is traveling alone to be accompanied through security, > down to the airline check-in counter at the gate by a non-ticketed > person. > > At the other end, is a non-ticketed person permitted through security to > go to the gate to meet a blind person flying alone? > > If TSA does not provide for such accommodations do the airlines take it > on themselves to provide this service? > > Has anybody had any experience in this regard? Is the accommodation, if > any, voluntary on the part of the TSA and/or the airlines or is it > governed by regulation? > > Patrick H. Stiehm > Stiehm Law Office > Alexandria, VA 22309 > 703-360-1089 (Voice) > 703-935-8266 (Fax) > > > > Tue, 1 Dec 2009 11:30:37 -0800 "Russell J. Thomas, Jr." > writes: >> Off the top of my head, and without any new research, the only case >> I >> remember is a case challenging the accessibility of airline websites >> with >> respect to attempting to make reservations and ordering tickets on >> line. >> >> I also think that there are regulations on the subject, especially >> dealing >> with how disabled passengers are to be treated (or perhaps on some >> occasions >> mistreated). >> >> I often thought it would be a good idea for the NFB to put together >> a short >> guide book concerning travel, including air travel, based upon >> experiences >> of NFB members, to be used as a reference guide for blind people who >> use air >> travel. Certainly things have changed since 911--some changes for >> the good, >> and others not so good. >> >> >> >> >> Respectfully, >> >> >> >> Russell J. Thomas, Jr. >> >> THOMAS & ASSOCIATES >> >> www.californiaemployersattorneys.com >> >> >> >> Orange County Office >> >> 4121 Westerly Place, Suite 101 >> >> Newport Beach, California 92660 >> >> T: (949) 752-0101 >> >> F: (949) 257-4756 >> >> M: (949) 466-7238 >> >> >> >> Beverly Hills Office >> >> 9107 Wilshire Boulevard, Suite 450 >> >> Beverly Hills, California 90210 >> >> T: (310) 461-3561 >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf Of James Weisberg >> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 10:01 AM >> To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' >> Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel >> >> Hi Folks: >> >> >> >> Anyone on the lists have experience or knowledge regarding the ADA >> and suits >> against air carriers for violations available for quick consult? >> Thanks. >> >> >> >> James W. Weisberg, Esq. >> >> Law Office of J. William Weisberg >> >> 299 South Patencio Road #3 >> >> Palm Springs, California 92262 >> >> V: 916.425.1010 >> >> F: 916.374.7667 >> >> E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com >> >> Admitted in Wisconsin >> >> Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil >> Rights >> Advocacy for Children with Diabetes >> >> This message contains information which may be confidential and >> privileged. >> Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the >> addressee), >> you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any >> information >> contained in this message. If you have received this message in >> error, >> please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from >> your >> system. >> >> This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client >> relationship >> nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William >> Weisberg >> expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information >> in >> accordance with this disclaimer. >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for >> blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rthomas%40rjtla > wfi >> rm.com >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stiehm.law%40ju > no.com >> > > ____________________________________________________________ > Hotel > Hotel pics, info and virtual tours. Click here to book a hotel online. > http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/c?cp=ewJKbyZ61QloDsW_i_oQ_wAAJ1BdRO > y9vkzpR6E_Fj7jZTbnAAYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAATRAAAAAA= > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jimi-law%40dc.rr.c > om > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4652 (20091201) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4652 (20091201) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4653 (20091201) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4655 (20091202) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4655 (20091202) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniverse08%40gma > il.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net From stevep.deeley at insightbb.com Wed Dec 2 19:18:36 2009 From: stevep.deeley at insightbb.com (Steve P. Deeley) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 14:18:36 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel In-Reply-To: References: <20091201.125747.428.71023@mailpop05.vgs.untd.com> Message-ID: In your opinion, how were you humiliated? Steve Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Weisberg" To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 1:01 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > As the original poster of this thread I wanted to point out the reason for > my inquiry was not related to accommodations but rather being publicly > humiliated by air carrier staff (stew) which of course is a common carrier > and that's a big "no no." Since the humiliation was based upon the > presence > of a guide dog the ADA first came to mind. > > > > Finally, Ben you rock dude!! > > > James W. Weisberg, Esq. > > Law Office of J. William Weisberg > > 299 South Patencio Road #3 > > Palm Springs, California 92262 > > V: 916.425.1010 > > F: 916.374.7667 > > E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com > > Admitted in Wisconsin > > Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil Rights > Advocacy for Children with Diabetes > > This message contains information which may be confidential and > privileged. > Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), > you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information > contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, > please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from your > system. > > This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client > relationship > nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William > Weisberg > expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in > accordance with this disclaimer. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of stiehm.law > Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 12:58 PM > To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org > Cc: blindlaw at nfbnet.org > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > > In addition to the airlines, I have recently become curious as to what if > any, accommodations for the TSA makes with respect to disabled people > going through security and being picked up by somebody at the gate at the > terminal at the other end of the flight. For example, do they permit a > blind person who is traveling alone to be accompanied through security, > down to the airline check-in counter at the gate by a non-ticketed > person. > > At the other end, is a non-ticketed person permitted through security to > go to the gate to meet a blind person flying alone? > > If TSA does not provide for such accommodations do the airlines take it > on themselves to provide this service? > > Has anybody had any experience in this regard? Is the accommodation, if > any, voluntary on the part of the TSA and/or the airlines or is it > governed by regulation? > > Patrick H. Stiehm > Stiehm Law Office > Alexandria, VA 22309 > 703-360-1089 (Voice) > 703-935-8266 (Fax) > > > > Tue, 1 Dec 2009 11:30:37 -0800 "Russell J. Thomas, Jr." > writes: >> Off the top of my head, and without any new research, the only case >> I >> remember is a case challenging the accessibility of airline websites >> with >> respect to attempting to make reservations and ordering tickets on >> line. >> >> I also think that there are regulations on the subject, especially >> dealing >> with how disabled passengers are to be treated (or perhaps on some >> occasions >> mistreated). >> >> I often thought it would be a good idea for the NFB to put together >> a short >> guide book concerning travel, including air travel, based upon >> experiences >> of NFB members, to be used as a reference guide for blind people who >> use air >> travel. Certainly things have changed since 911--some changes for >> the good, >> and others not so good. >> >> >> >> >> Respectfully, >> >> >> >> Russell J. Thomas, Jr. >> >> THOMAS & ASSOCIATES >> >> www.californiaemployersattorneys.com >> >> >> >> Orange County Office >> >> 4121 Westerly Place, Suite 101 >> >> Newport Beach, California 92660 >> >> T: (949) 752-0101 >> >> F: (949) 257-4756 >> >> M: (949) 466-7238 >> >> >> >> Beverly Hills Office >> >> 9107 Wilshire Boulevard, Suite 450 >> >> Beverly Hills, California 90210 >> >> T: (310) 461-3561 >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf Of James Weisberg >> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 10:01 AM >> To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' >> Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel >> >> Hi Folks: >> >> >> >> Anyone on the lists have experience or knowledge regarding the ADA >> and suits >> against air carriers for violations available for quick consult? >> Thanks. >> >> >> >> James W. Weisberg, Esq. >> >> Law Office of J. William Weisberg >> >> 299 South Patencio Road #3 >> >> Palm Springs, California 92262 >> >> V: 916.425.1010 >> >> F: 916.374.7667 >> >> E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com >> >> Admitted in Wisconsin >> >> Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil >> Rights >> Advocacy for Children with Diabetes >> >> This message contains information which may be confidential and >> privileged. >> Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the >> addressee), >> you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any >> information >> contained in this message. If you have received this message in >> error, >> please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from >> your >> system. >> >> This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client >> relationship >> nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William >> Weisberg >> expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information >> in >> accordance with this disclaimer. >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for >> blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rthomas%40rjtla > wfi >> rm.com >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stiehm.law%40ju > no.com >> > > ____________________________________________________________ > Hotel > Hotel pics, info and virtual tours. Click here to book a hotel online. > http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/c?cp=ewJKbyZ61QloDsW_i_oQ_wAAJ1BdRO > y9vkzpR6E_Fj7jZTbnAAYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAATRAAAAAA= > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jimi-law%40dc.rr.c > om > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4652 (20091201) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4652 (20091201) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4653 (20091201) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4655 (20091202) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4655 (20091202) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.426 / Virus Database: 270.14.90/2540 - Release Date: 12/02/09 07:33:00 From stevep.deeley at insightbb.com Wed Dec 2 19:20:46 2009 From: stevep.deeley at insightbb.com (Steve P. Deeley) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 14:20:46 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Just tip a sky cap to assist you through security and on to your gate. They do this all the time. And, by the way, don't be cheep and slip them, at least, five bucks. You can get real good service when you bring out the bucks. Steve Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 12:24 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > Hello, > > This is an interesting subject. TSA is generally not responsible for > providing a traveler with a guide as a passenger goes through screening. > You > can always request a Companion Pass from the airline for someone to > accompany you; however, it is at the discretion of the airline as to > whether or not > they grant this request. Most do grant the Pass as long as you give them > a valid reason, and most accept accompanying a minor or passenger with a > disability or elderly individual as a valid reason. You can request a > Companion Pass from the airline at the time of check-in if you bring > someone with > you to drop you off - you don't necessarily have to let the airline know > in advance that you plan to do this. If you want someone to meet you at > the > gate when you arrive though, you'll need to let the airline know in > advance. This is because you won't actually be with the person when they > obtain > the Companion Pass, so the airline can't verify that they know you or > that > you'd want them to pick you up. Companions are subject to the same > screening and security measures as passengers - valid State or Federal > ID, human > and belonging scans, etc. TSA does not have jurisdiction over Companion > Pass issuance - that is at the discretion of the airlines - they are > subject > to the regs of the FAA. > > You can ask for a Guide at the airport as well. Generally airlines > prefer > you do this in advance, but you can certainly choose to make such a > request when you arrive at the airport or land at your destination. If > you don't > let them know you need someone in advance though, you might have to wait > longer for someone to arrive, as airlines try to have staff waiting for > passengers about whom they know. We've all seen the line of wheel chairs > and > uniformed staff waiting when we deplane? Well, they're each usually > assigned to a particular person, and they usually know who that person is > ahead of > time. Airlines, and sometimes airports, are increasingly creating > "Passenger Assistance Departments," and escorting passengers is one of > their > primary functions. > > There are some airports that utilize the airport police or other airport > staff as escorts rather than airline personnel. Sometimes this is because > it is incredibly difficult to credential staff for all areas of an > airport, > which such staff need to possess. Sometimes it may be a small airport, > and > it would be more efficient to assign escort responsibilities to one person > for all the airlines. Or there might be other reasons. > > However, TSOs - Transportation Security Officers) are trained in how to > interact with disabled passengers. For example, if you place your cane on > the conveyer belt, a TSO may offer to position you prior to entering the > human > scanner and reach out to hold your hands to guide you forward. Due to the > nature of the scanning equipment, a passenger must not touch the scanning > machine - it will not function properly if anything comes into contact > with > it. Some of us have had the experience of bumping the machine and setting > it off in the past. > > If you run your cane through the baggage scanner and ask for it back to > take through the human scanner, you have to be very careful, once again, > not > to tap the scanner walls with the cane - it will likely set the machine > off. > Also, if your cane has metal - many of us use metal tips - then it may > cause the scanner to go off, necessitating the individual be referred to > secondary screening or wanding. > > I've personally had the experience of placing my cane on the baggage > scanning belt and walking toward the human scanner. I walked through the > scanner very slowly and did not set it off. However, I was referred to > secondary. I always ask why I'm being referred to Secondary (I'm in the > business of > wanting to know if I'm being discriminated against because of my > religion, > national origin, or disability). The answer I usually get (not always > though, and I've got some funny stories about other times) is "it's > random." > I conveyed to the TSO that I could not move to the secondary screening > area > until someone retrieved my cane from the conveyer belt. He got it for me > and asked, "Oh, is the reason you moved so slowly through the scanner > because you are blind?" I answered that it was, and he told me I was free > to go. > I insisted on going to Secondary, and he said, "Well you don't need to. > Your behavior isn't suspicious. I just thought it was because I didn't > know > you were being careful not to bump the machine since you couldn't see > well." Part of their jobs as TSOs is to monitor suspicious behavior; part > of my > job is to convey the difference between suspicious behavior and cultural > norms. Needless to say I insisted on going to Secondary because I wanted > the chance to talk the issue through with the TSO. It was a teachable > moment, > and I think he really got there could be hundreds of reasons why someone > might move slowly through a machine. > > But for those that have had really bad experiences at TSA or CBP > checkpoints, there are a couple of different avenues you can take. If you > believe > you have been the subject of discrimination, you may file a CRCL (DHS > Office > for Civil Rights and Civil Liberties - and where I work) complaint. Go > to > _www.dhs.gov/civilliberties_ (http://www.dhs.gov/civilliberties) to > download the form or send an email to _civil.liberties at dhs.gov_ > (mailto:civil.liberties at dhs.gov) explaining what happened. Please be > sure to give as much > detail as possible, including the date, airport name, terminal number, > time > of day, the name of anyone you obtain, and a narrative explaining what > happened. If you have a customer service issue - for example a TSO was > rude > or dismissive, you may ask for a supervisor, a comment card, or both. > You > can also contact your local field office after the fact to convey what > happened. > > My message is substantially longer than I intended, and I apologize for > the > length. > > Regards, > Ronza > > > > > In a message dated 12/2/2009 4:25:21 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, > ckrugman at sbcglobal.net writes: > > I travel frequently alone and the air lines and/or HSA provide needed > assistence upon my request. including through security check points and > picking up baggage and assistence with procuring ground transportation or > to > a waiting party. I have found HSA and airport staff to be very > cooperative. > Chuck > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "stiehm.law" > To: > Cc: > Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 12:57 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > > >> In addition to the airlines, I have recently become curious as to what >> if >> any, accommodations for the TSA makes with respect to disabled people >> going through security and being picked up by somebody at the gate at >> the >> terminal at the other end of the flight. For example, do they permit a >> blind person who is traveling alone to be accompanied through security, >> down to the airline check-in counter at the gate by a non-ticketed >> person. >> >> At the other end, is a non-ticketed person permitted through security to >> go to the gate to meet a blind person flying alone? >> >> If TSA does not provide for such accommodations do the airlines take it >> on themselves to provide this service? >> >> Has anybody had any experience in this regard? Is the accommodation, if >> any, voluntary on the part of the TSA and/or the airlines or is it >> governed by regulation? >> >> Patrick H. Stiehm >> Stiehm Law Office >> Alexandria, VA 22309 >> 703-360-1089 (Voice) >> 703-935-8266 (Fax) >> >> >> >> Tue, 1 Dec 2009 11:30:37 -0800 "Russell J. Thomas, Jr." >> writes: >>> Off the top of my head, and without any new research, the only case >>> I >>> remember is a case challenging the accessibility of airline websites >>> with >>> respect to attempting to make reservations and ordering tickets on >>> line. >>> >>> I also think that there are regulations on the subject, especially >>> dealing >>> with how disabled passengers are to be treated (or perhaps on some >>> occasions >>> mistreated). >>> >>> I often thought it would be a good idea for the NFB to put together >>> a short >>> guide book concerning travel, including air travel, based upon >>> experiences >>> of NFB members, to be used as a reference guide for blind people who >>> use air >>> travel. Certainly things have changed since 911--some changes for >>> the good, >>> and others not so good. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Respectfully, >>> >>> >>> >>> Russell J. Thomas, Jr. >>> >>> THOMAS & ASSOCIATES >>> >>> www.californiaemployersattorneys.com >>> >>> >>> >>> Orange County Office >>> >>> 4121 Westerly Place, Suite 101 >>> >>> Newport Beach, California 92660 >>> >>> T: (949) 752-0101 >>> >>> F: (949) 257-4756 >>> >>> M: (949) 466-7238 >>> >>> >>> >>> Beverly Hills Office >>> >>> 9107 Wilshire Boulevard, Suite 450 >>> >>> Beverly Hills, California 90210 >>> >>> T: (310) 461-3561 >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>> Behalf Of James Weisberg >>> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 10:01 AM >>> To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' >>> Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel >>> >>> Hi Folks: >>> >>> >>> >>> Anyone on the lists have experience or knowledge regarding the ADA >>> and suits >>> against air carriers for violations available for quick consult? >>> Thanks. >>> >>> >>> >>> James W. Weisberg, Esq. >>> >>> Law Office of J. William Weisberg >>> >>> 299 South Patencio Road #3 >>> >>> Palm Springs, California 92262 >>> >>> V: 916.425.1010 >>> >>> F: 916.374.7667 >>> >>> E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com >>> >>> Admitted in Wisconsin >>> >>> Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil >>> Rights >>> Advocacy for Children with Diabetes >>> >>> This message contains information which may be confidential and >>> privileged. >>> Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the >>> addressee), >>> you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any >>> information >>> contained in this message. If you have received this message in >>> error, >>> please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from >>> your >>> system. >>> >>> This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client >>> relationship >>> nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William >>> Weisberg >>> expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information >>> in >>> accordance with this disclaimer. >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> blindlaw: >>> >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rthomas%40rjtla >> wfi >>> rm.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for blindlaw: >>> >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stiehm.law%40ju >> no.com >>> >> >> ____________________________________________________________ >> Hotel >> Hotel pics, info and virtual tours. Click here to book a hotel online. >> > http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/c?cp=ewJKbyZ61QloDsW_i_oQ_wAAJ1BdROy9vkzpR6E_Fj7jZTbnAAYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAATRAAAAAA= >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/aznor99%40aol.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.426 / Virus Database: 270.14.90/2540 - Release Date: 12/02/09 07:33:00 From attorney at alcidonislaw.com Wed Dec 2 20:03:21 2009 From: attorney at alcidonislaw.com (Rod Alcidonis) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 15:03:21 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Bar Exam/ Air travel/ practice question In-Reply-To: <3E00CAC442384C5EB9971997C576778C@benbpgavlhgwwr> References: <755BC5BBB6924782846D2E4A3F5ADF96@spike> <3E00CAC442384C5EB9971997C576778C@benbpgavlhgwwr> Message-ID: I will take a look on the web... Rod Alcidonis Attorney and Counselor at Law Philadelphia, PA Licensed in PA -- NJ pending C. 718-704-4651 Attorney at alcidonislaw.com "A lawyer is either a social engineer or a parasite." - Charles Hamilton Houston -------------------------------------------------- From: "Ben Karpilow" Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 1:01 PM To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Bar Exam/ Air travel/ practice question > Fantastic, Chuck. Rod, you may want to check this out as well to find out > if there is a PAor NJ counterpart. > > While this will likely meet most of my form needs, and I was referring to > all forms in general, my broader question is whether there exists a > program like adobe, with which I have very limited experience, which > allows one to scan in a document, fill it out, and reprint it without > altering the form's original format. Naturally, the program would have to > allow the user to read the form-- as well as what gets filled in-- with a > screen reader. Will adobe acrobat do this? Is there a cheaper, > blind-friendlier alternative? Thanks in advance for the feedback. > > Ben Karpilow > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 1:55 AM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Bar Exam/ Air travel/ practice question > > >> congratulations on passing the bar! I'm not what actual forms you're >> looking for but you may want to check out Martin Dean's publisher of >> California essential forms at www.essentialpublishers.com. I have met >> with the distributor at various trade shows through the California >> Association of Legal Document Assistants and I am told that the forms >> should work with screen reading software. He also told me of a client >> that uses them with dictation software as well. This is much less >> expensive than Legal Solutions and as that software is going away as we >> know it this is much more user friendly. >> Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal >> 1237 P Street >> Fresno ca 93721 >> 559-266-9237 >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Ben Karpilow" >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 6:03 PM >> Subject: [blindlaw] Bar Exam/ Air travel/ practice question >> >> >>> Hello fello listers, >>> >>> first of all, I'm happy to report I passed the july 2009 california bar >>> examination on my first attempt. I managed to secure an electronic >>> version of the MBE's thanks to a pilot program run by the NCBE. I >>> understand a lawsuit has been filed on behalf of a blind law student to >>> make this accomidation available as a matter of law to qualified bar >>> candidates. I understand the plaintiff is is being represented by a >>> fellow lister.Good luck, and please keep us updated as to developments >>> in this case. >>> >>> On the subject of air travel, I recall there being an extensive document >>> posted not too long ago on this list which contained precisely the type >>> of information that was the subject of Mr. Weisberg's original inquiry. >>> Perhaps it would be helpful for the original sender, whose name I cannot >>> remember, to repost the information. >>> >>> Finally, a practice question along the lines of one recently asked by >>> Rod : when it comes to filling out forms, does anyone have experience >>> with software that would enable one to digitize a form, i.e., scan it >>> into a computer, then fill it out and print it, without altering the >>> form's original format or look. Also, does any such software allow the >>> user to read the form, in addition to what he/ she has written? Thank >>> you in advance for your responces. >>> >>> Ben Karpilow >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/benkarpilow%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/attorney%40alcidonislaw.com From jimi-law at dc.rr.com Wed Dec 2 20:34:07 2009 From: jimi-law at dc.rr.com (James Weisberg) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 12:34:07 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] follow up on ADA and Air Travel In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: worth a little research. I like the approach. Thanks. James W. Weisberg, Esq. Law Office of J. William Weisberg 299 South Patencio Road #3 Palm Springs, California 92262 V: 916.425.1010 F: 916.374.7667 E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com Admitted in Wisconsin Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil Rights Advocacy for Children with Diabetes This message contains information which may be confidential and privileged. Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from your system. This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client relationship nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William Weisberg expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in accordance with this disclaimer. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 10:02 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] follow up on ADA and Air Travel I know this is reaching but would the humiliation constitute a hate crime under the new Federal hate crimes law? Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal 1237 P Street Fresno ca 93721 559-266-9237 ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Weisberg" To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 8:44 AM Subject: [blindlaw] follow up on ADA and Air Travel > As the original poster of this thread I wanted to point out the reason for > my inquiry was not related to accommodations but rather being publicly > humiliated by air carrier staff (stew) which of course is a common carrier > and that's a big "no no." Since the humiliation was based upon the > presence > of a guide dog the ADA first came to mind. > > > > Finally, Ben you rock dude!! > > > > James W. Weisberg, Esq. > > Law Office of J. William Weisberg > > 299 South Patencio Road #3 > > Palm Springs, California 92262 > > V: 916.425.1010 > > F: 916.374.7667 > > E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com > > Admitted in Wisconsin > > Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil Rights > Advocacy for Children with Diabetes > > This message contains information which may be confidential and > privileged. > Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), > you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information > contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, > please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from your > system. > > This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client > relationship > nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William > Weisberg > expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in > accordance with this disclaimer. > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob al.net _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jimi-law%40dc.rr.c om __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4655 (20091202) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4655 (20091202) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4656 (20091202) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4656 (20091202) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com From jimi-law at dc.rr.com Wed Dec 2 20:40:18 2009 From: jimi-law at dc.rr.com (James Weisberg) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 12:40:18 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel In-Reply-To: References: <20091201.125747.428.71023@mailpop05.vgs.untd.com> Message-ID: <93D426D90E0F47678A7E578E71609E06@screnci.local> being marginalized because of something (my case disability)in front of a plane full of passengers is humiliating. No? James W. Weisberg, Esq. Law Office of J. William Weisberg 299 South Patencio Road #3 Palm Springs, California 92262 V: 916.425.1010 F: 916.374.7667 E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com Admitted in Wisconsin Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil Rights Advocacy for Children with Diabetes This message contains information which may be confidential and privileged. Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from your system. This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client relationship nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William Weisberg expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in accordance with this disclaimer. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 11:19 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel In your opinion, how were you humiliated? Steve Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Weisberg" To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 1:01 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > As the original poster of this thread I wanted to point out the reason for > my inquiry was not related to accommodations but rather being publicly > humiliated by air carrier staff (stew) which of course is a common carrier > and that's a big "no no." Since the humiliation was based upon the > presence > of a guide dog the ADA first came to mind. > > > > Finally, Ben you rock dude!! > > > James W. Weisberg, Esq. > > Law Office of J. William Weisberg > > 299 South Patencio Road #3 > > Palm Springs, California 92262 > > V: 916.425.1010 > > F: 916.374.7667 > > E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com > > Admitted in Wisconsin > > Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil Rights > Advocacy for Children with Diabetes > > This message contains information which may be confidential and > privileged. > Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), > you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information > contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, > please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from your > system. > > This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client > relationship > nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William > Weisberg > expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in > accordance with this disclaimer. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of stiehm.law > Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 12:58 PM > To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org > Cc: blindlaw at nfbnet.org > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > > In addition to the airlines, I have recently become curious as to what if > any, accommodations for the TSA makes with respect to disabled people > going through security and being picked up by somebody at the gate at the > terminal at the other end of the flight. For example, do they permit a > blind person who is traveling alone to be accompanied through security, > down to the airline check-in counter at the gate by a non-ticketed > person. > > At the other end, is a non-ticketed person permitted through security to > go to the gate to meet a blind person flying alone? > > If TSA does not provide for such accommodations do the airlines take it > on themselves to provide this service? > > Has anybody had any experience in this regard? Is the accommodation, if > any, voluntary on the part of the TSA and/or the airlines or is it > governed by regulation? > > Patrick H. Stiehm > Stiehm Law Office > Alexandria, VA 22309 > 703-360-1089 (Voice) > 703-935-8266 (Fax) > > > > Tue, 1 Dec 2009 11:30:37 -0800 "Russell J. Thomas, Jr." > writes: >> Off the top of my head, and without any new research, the only case >> I >> remember is a case challenging the accessibility of airline websites >> with >> respect to attempting to make reservations and ordering tickets on >> line. >> >> I also think that there are regulations on the subject, especially >> dealing >> with how disabled passengers are to be treated (or perhaps on some >> occasions >> mistreated). >> >> I often thought it would be a good idea for the NFB to put together >> a short >> guide book concerning travel, including air travel, based upon >> experiences >> of NFB members, to be used as a reference guide for blind people who >> use air >> travel. Certainly things have changed since 911--some changes for >> the good, >> and others not so good. >> >> >> >> >> Respectfully, >> >> >> >> Russell J. Thomas, Jr. >> >> THOMAS & ASSOCIATES >> >> www.californiaemployersattorneys.com >> >> >> >> Orange County Office >> >> 4121 Westerly Place, Suite 101 >> >> Newport Beach, California 92660 >> >> T: (949) 752-0101 >> >> F: (949) 257-4756 >> >> M: (949) 466-7238 >> >> >> >> Beverly Hills Office >> >> 9107 Wilshire Boulevard, Suite 450 >> >> Beverly Hills, California 90210 >> >> T: (310) 461-3561 >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf Of James Weisberg >> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 10:01 AM >> To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' >> Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel >> >> Hi Folks: >> >> >> >> Anyone on the lists have experience or knowledge regarding the ADA >> and suits >> against air carriers for violations available for quick consult? >> Thanks. >> >> >> >> James W. Weisberg, Esq. >> >> Law Office of J. William Weisberg >> >> 299 South Patencio Road #3 >> >> Palm Springs, California 92262 >> >> V: 916.425.1010 >> >> F: 916.374.7667 >> >> E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com >> >> Admitted in Wisconsin >> >> Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil >> Rights >> Advocacy for Children with Diabetes >> >> This message contains information which may be confidential and >> privileged. >> Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the >> addressee), >> you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any >> information >> contained in this message. If you have received this message in >> error, >> please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from >> your >> system. >> >> This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client >> relationship >> nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William >> Weisberg >> expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information >> in >> accordance with this disclaimer. >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for >> blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rthomas%40rjtla > wfi >> rm.com >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stiehm.law%40ju > no.com >> > > ____________________________________________________________ > Hotel > Hotel pics, info and virtual tours. Click here to book a hotel online. > http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/c?cp=ewJKbyZ61QloDsW_i_oQ_wAAJ1BdRO > y9vkzpR6E_Fj7jZTbnAAYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAATRAAAAAA= > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jimi-law%40dc.rr.c > om > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4652 (20091201) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4652 (20091201) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4653 (20091201) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4655 (20091202) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4655 (20091202) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in sightbb.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.426 / Virus Database: 270.14.90/2540 - Release Date: 12/02/09 07:33:00 _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jimi-law%40dc.rr.c om __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4656 (20091202) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4656 (20091202) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4656 (20091202) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com From mruniverse08 at gmail.com Wed Dec 2 21:06:10 2009 From: mruniverse08 at gmail.com (WB) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 15:06:10 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel In-Reply-To: <93D426D90E0F47678A7E578E71609E06@screnci.local> References: <20091201.125747.428.71023@mailpop05.vgs.untd.com> <93D426D90E0F47678A7E578E71609E06@screnci.local> Message-ID: <027601ca7393$4693d280$d3bb7780$@com> Well, exactly how wer you marginalized is what the question is I think. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of James Weisberg Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 2:40 PM To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel being marginalized because of something (my case disability)in front of a plane full of passengers is humiliating. No? James W. Weisberg, Esq. Law Office of J. William Weisberg 299 South Patencio Road #3 Palm Springs, California 92262 V: 916.425.1010 F: 916.374.7667 E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com Admitted in Wisconsin Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil Rights Advocacy for Children with Diabetes This message contains information which may be confidential and privileged. Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from your system. This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client relationship nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William Weisberg expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in accordance with this disclaimer. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 11:19 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel In your opinion, how were you humiliated? Steve Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Weisberg" To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 1:01 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > As the original poster of this thread I wanted to point out the reason for > my inquiry was not related to accommodations but rather being publicly > humiliated by air carrier staff (stew) which of course is a common carrier > and that's a big "no no." Since the humiliation was based upon the > presence > of a guide dog the ADA first came to mind. > > > > Finally, Ben you rock dude!! > > > James W. Weisberg, Esq. > > Law Office of J. William Weisberg > > 299 South Patencio Road #3 > > Palm Springs, California 92262 > > V: 916.425.1010 > > F: 916.374.7667 > > E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com > > Admitted in Wisconsin > > Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil Rights > Advocacy for Children with Diabetes > > This message contains information which may be confidential and > privileged. > Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), > you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information > contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, > please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from your > system. > > This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client > relationship > nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William > Weisberg > expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in > accordance with this disclaimer. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of stiehm.law > Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 12:58 PM > To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org > Cc: blindlaw at nfbnet.org > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > > In addition to the airlines, I have recently become curious as to what if > any, accommodations for the TSA makes with respect to disabled people > going through security and being picked up by somebody at the gate at the > terminal at the other end of the flight. For example, do they permit a > blind person who is traveling alone to be accompanied through security, > down to the airline check-in counter at the gate by a non-ticketed > person. > > At the other end, is a non-ticketed person permitted through security to > go to the gate to meet a blind person flying alone? > > If TSA does not provide for such accommodations do the airlines take it > on themselves to provide this service? > > Has anybody had any experience in this regard? Is the accommodation, if > any, voluntary on the part of the TSA and/or the airlines or is it > governed by regulation? > > Patrick H. Stiehm > Stiehm Law Office > Alexandria, VA 22309 > 703-360-1089 (Voice) > 703-935-8266 (Fax) > > > > Tue, 1 Dec 2009 11:30:37 -0800 "Russell J. Thomas, Jr." > writes: >> Off the top of my head, and without any new research, the only case >> I >> remember is a case challenging the accessibility of airline websites >> with >> respect to attempting to make reservations and ordering tickets on >> line. >> >> I also think that there are regulations on the subject, especially >> dealing >> with how disabled passengers are to be treated (or perhaps on some >> occasions >> mistreated). >> >> I often thought it would be a good idea for the NFB to put together >> a short >> guide book concerning travel, including air travel, based upon >> experiences >> of NFB members, to be used as a reference guide for blind people who >> use air >> travel. Certainly things have changed since 911--some changes for >> the good, >> and others not so good. >> >> >> >> >> Respectfully, >> >> >> >> Russell J. Thomas, Jr. >> >> THOMAS & ASSOCIATES >> >> www.californiaemployersattorneys.com >> >> >> >> Orange County Office >> >> 4121 Westerly Place, Suite 101 >> >> Newport Beach, California 92660 >> >> T: (949) 752-0101 >> >> F: (949) 257-4756 >> >> M: (949) 466-7238 >> >> >> >> Beverly Hills Office >> >> 9107 Wilshire Boulevard, Suite 450 >> >> Beverly Hills, California 90210 >> >> T: (310) 461-3561 >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf Of James Weisberg >> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 10:01 AM >> To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' >> Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel >> >> Hi Folks: >> >> >> >> Anyone on the lists have experience or knowledge regarding the ADA >> and suits >> against air carriers for violations available for quick consult? >> Thanks. >> >> >> >> James W. Weisberg, Esq. >> >> Law Office of J. William Weisberg >> >> 299 South Patencio Road #3 >> >> Palm Springs, California 92262 >> >> V: 916.425.1010 >> >> F: 916.374.7667 >> >> E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com >> >> Admitted in Wisconsin >> >> Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil >> Rights >> Advocacy for Children with Diabetes >> >> This message contains information which may be confidential and >> privileged. >> Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the >> addressee), >> you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any >> information >> contained in this message. If you have received this message in >> error, >> please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from >> your >> system. >> >> This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client >> relationship >> nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William >> Weisberg >> expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information >> in >> accordance with this disclaimer. >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for >> blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rthomas%40rjtla > wfi >> rm.com >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stiehm.law%40ju > no.com >> > > ____________________________________________________________ > Hotel > Hotel pics, info and virtual tours. Click here to book a hotel online. > http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/c?cp=ewJKbyZ61QloDsW_i_oQ_wAAJ1BdRO > y9vkzpR6E_Fj7jZTbnAAYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAATRAAAAAA= > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jimi-law%40dc.rr.c > om > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4652 (20091201) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4652 (20091201) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4653 (20091201) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4655 (20091202) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4655 (20091202) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in sightbb.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.426 / Virus Database: 270.14.90/2540 - Release Date: 12/02/09 07:33:00 _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jimi-law%40dc.rr.c om __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4656 (20091202) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4656 (20091202) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4656 (20091202) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniverse08%40gma il.com From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov Wed Dec 2 21:14:00 2009 From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 15:14:00 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] FW: Attorney Vacancies at the U.S. Department of Justice Message-ID: ________________________________ From: jobs-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:jobs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Maurer, Patricia Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 9:07 AM To: jobs at nfbnet.org Subject: [Jobs] FW: Attorney Vacancies at the U.S. Department of Justice ________________________________ From: Hunter, Sue [mailto:Sue.Hunter at usdoj.gov] Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 12:06 PM To: Maurer, Patricia; nijc at aol.com; nlove at opd.state.md.us; nmcconnell at jackscamp.com; noconnell at tabinc.org; noryrp at cox.net; nromulus at gmail.com; ntb at boglechang.com; nwpatton at law.stanford.edu; ocaaba at cox.net; omanager at lawyerscomm.org; palsd at hotmail.com; patel at fr.com; pchanster at yahoo.com; pchapman at koonz.com; pgrewal at daycasebeer.com; pkim at lordbissell.com; Maurer, Patricia; pmorrison at state.wv.us; poppy.johnston at unlv.edu; president at abaw.org; president at adc.org Subject: FW: Attorney Vacancies at the U.S. Department of Justice To learn more about our attorneys and what they like most about working at DOJ, please visit our attorney profiles at, http://www.usdoj.gov/oarm/arm/profiles.htm, and the video clips of our attorneys and interns available at https://www.avuedigitalservices.com/ads/jobsatdojoarm/index.jsp We encourage you to share this email with interested colleagues and peers. If you no longer wish to receive these periodic email announcements, please respond to this email address and ask to be removed from our mailing list. Thank you. Current Department of Justice Attorney Vacancies * UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE EASTERN DISTRICT OF CALIFORNIA ASSISTANT UNITED STATES ATTORNEY FRESNO, CALIFORNIA NOVEMBER 30, 2009 10-EDCA-06A Applications should be postmarked no later than Friday, December 18, 2009. Date posted: 11-30-2009 * UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE EASTERN DISTRICT OF CALIFORNIA ASSISTANT UNITED STATES ATTORNEY FRESNO, CALIFORNIA NOVEMBER 30, 2009 10-EDCA-05A Applications should be postmarked no later than Friday, December 18, 2009. Date posted: 11-30-2009 * U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE EXECUTIVE OFFICE FOR UNITED STATES ATTORNEYS NATIONAL INDIAN COUNTRY TRAINING COORDINATOR (NICTC) ATTORNEY ADVISOR GS-0905-15 Submission Process and Deadline Date Open: 11/30/2009 Close: 12/11/2009 Date posted: 11-30-2009 * ASSISTANT UNITED STATES ATTORNEY UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE NORTHERN DISTRICT OF TEXAS FT. WORTH, TX. Hand-Delivered applications must be received by 5:00pm December 16, 2009. Mailed applications must be postmarked by December 16, 2009 Date posted: 11-25-2009 * U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE DRUG ENFORCEMENT ADMINISTRATION OFFICE OF CHIEF COUNSEL / CIVIL LITIGATION SECTION EXPERIENCED ATTORNEYS / GS-11 to GS-14 (PROMOTION POTENTIAL to GS-15) Applications must be received by January 2, 2010 Date posted: 11-25-2009 * GENERAL ATTORNEY, GS 12/13/14/15 OFFICE OF PROFESSIONAL RESPONSIBILITY (OPR) FEDERAL BUREAU OF INVESTIGATION WASHINGTON, D.C Submissions must be received by DECEMBER 10, 2009. Date posted: 11-25-2009 * ASSISTANT UNITED STATES ATTORNEY VACANCY (2 POSITIONS) UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE NORTHERN DISTRICT OF IOWA This announcement will remain open until the position(s) are filled, with first consideration given to those application materials postmarked by December 2, 2009. Date posted: 11-25-2009 * U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE TAX DIVISION, CIVIL TRIAL SECTIONS WASHINGTON, D.C. Applications will be considered on a rolling basis and should be submitted no later than January 11, 2010. Date posted: 11-25-2009 * U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE TAX DIVISION, CRIMINAL ENFORCEMENT SECTIONS WASHINGTON, D.C. The positions will remain open until filled. Date posted: 11-25-2009 * ASSISTANT UNITED STATES ATTORNEY UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE DISTRICT OF KANSAS VACANCY ANNOUNCEMENT NUMBER: 10-KS-AUSA-01 Applications must be received by December 18, 2009. Date posted: 11-24-2009 * U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE CRIMINAL DIVISION ASSET FORFEITURE AND MONEY LAUNDERING SECTION DEPUTY CHIEF, GS-905-15 09-CRM-AFMLS-048 All applications must be received by December 22, 2009. Applications received after that date will not be considered. Date posted: 11-24-2009 * ASSISTANT UNITED STATES ATTORNEY UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE WESTERN DISTRICT OF WASHINGTON SEATTLE, WASHINGTON VACANCY ANNOUNCEMENT: 10-WDWA-AUSA-03 (CRMINAL OR CIVIL) 14 MONTH APPOINTMENT NOVEMBER 23, 2009 - DECEMBER 7, 2009 Applications will be accepted through December 7, 2009. Date posted: 11-24-2009 * ASSISTANT UNITED STATES ATTORNEY UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE WESTERN DISTRICT OF WASHINGTON SEATTLE, WASHINGTON VACANCY ANNOUNCEMENT: 10-WDWA-AUSA-02 (CRIMINAL) NOVEMBER 23, 2009 - DECEMBER 7, 2009 Applications will be accepted through December 7, 2009. Date posted: 11-24-2009 * CHIEF, PUBLIC INTEGRITY SECTION, ES-905 PUBLIC INTEGRITY SECTION, CRIMINAL DIVISION, WASHINGTON, DC VACANCY ANNOUNCEMENT NUMBER: 09-SES-CRM-03 Applications must be received by 11:59 EST of the closing date December 27, 2009. Date posted: 11-23-2009 * ASSISTANT UNITED STATES ATTORNEY UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE District of Oregon 10-OR-01 Position is open until filled, but no later than November 27, 2009. Date posted: 11-20-2009 * U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE U.S. TRUSTEE'S OFFICE -- INDIANAPOLIS, INDIANA EXPERIENCED ATTORNEY/GS-12 to GS-15 This position will be open until December 14, 2009. Date posted: 11-20-2009 * ASSISTANT UNITED STATES ATTORNEY UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE DISTRICT OF SOUTH DAKOTA 10-SD-001 Applications must be post marked by November 30, 2009. Date posted: 11-20-2009 * FEDERAL BUREAU OF PRISONS FEDERAL CORRECTIONAL COMPLEX CONSOLIDATED LEGAL CENTER BEAUMONT, TEXAS ATTORNEY-ADVISOR GS-905-12/13 This position is open until filled, but no later than November 24, 2009. Date posted: 11-20-2009 * UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE DISTRICT OF MINNESOTA ASSISTANT UNITED STATES ATTORNEY MINNEAPOLIS, MINNESOTA VACANCY ANNOUNCEMENT NO. 10-MN-03 The positions are opened until filled. The initial cut-off date for the receipt of applications is December 4, 2009. Date posted: 11-19-2009 * ATTORNEY-ADVISOR FEDERAL BUREAU OF PRISONS NORTHEAST REGIONAL OFFICE (CONSOLIDATED LEGAL CENTER) PHILADELPHIA, PENNSYLVANIA GS-905-11/12/13 his position is open until filled, but no later than December 1, 2009. Date posted: 11-18-2009 * ASSISTANT UNITED STATES ATTORNEY UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE NORTHERN DISTRICT OF TEXAS DALLAS, TEXAS NOVEMBER 17, 2009 - DECEMBER 1, 2009 VACANCY ANNOUNCEMENT #09-NDTX-AUSA-D03 Hand-Delivered applications must be received by 5:00pm December 1, 2009. Mailed applications must be postmarked by December 1, 2009. Date posted: 11-18-2009 * ASSISTANT UNITED STATES ATTORNEY UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE DISTRICT OF WYOMING VACANCY ANNOUNCEMENT NUMBER 10-WY-001 Applications must be postmarked or hand-delivered by 5:00 p.m., Mountain Time, on Wednesday, December 30, 2009. Date posted: 11-17-2009 * ASSISTANT ATTORNEY GENERAL OFFICE OF THE ATTORNEY GENERAL OF VIRGINIA AND SPECIAL ASSISTANT UNITED STATES ATTORNEY UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA NORFOLK OFFICE Position is open until filled. In order to ensure consideration of application, it should be received by the Office of the Attorney General by 11/23/2009. Date posted: 11-17-2009 * ASSISTANT UNITED STATES ATTORNEY UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE DISTRICT OF NEVADA ANNOUNCEMENT NUMBER 10-NV-01-AUSA OPENS: 11/10/09 CLOSES: 12/04/09 To receive consideration for this vacancy, resumes must be received by 5:00 p.m. Pacific Standard Time on the closing date of this announcement. Date posted: 11-17-2009 * UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE EASTERN DISTRICT OF CALIFORNIA ASSISTANT UNITED STATES ATTORNEY FRESNO, CALIFORNIA NOVEMBER 16, 2009 10-EDCA-03A Applications should be postmarked no later than Monday, November 30, 2009. Date posted: 11-16-2009 * UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE EASTERN DISTRICT OF CALIFORNIA ASSISTANT UNITED STATES ATTORNEY FRESNO, CALIFORNIA NOVEMBER 16, 2009 10-EDCA-02A Applications should be postmarked no later than Monday, November 30, 2009. Date posted: 11-16-2009 * UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE EASTERN DISTRICT OF CALIFORNIA ASSISTANT UNITED STATES ATTORNEY SACRAMENTO, CALIFORNIA NOVEMBER 16, 2009 10-EDCA-01A Applications should be postmarked no later than Monday, November 30, 2009. Date posted: 11-16-2009 * ASSISTANT UNITED STATES ATTORNEY UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE WESTERN DISTRICT OF NEW YORK 10-WDNY-003 Applications will be accepted until the position is filled, with a first cut-off date of December 4, 2009. Selection may be made from those applications received by December 4, 2009. Date posted: 11-16-2009 * ASSISTANT UNITED STATES ATTORNEYUNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE WESTERN DISTRICT OF NEW YORK 10-WDNY-002 Applications will be accepted until the position is filled, with a first cut-off date of December 4, 2009. Selection may be made from applications received by December 4, 2009. Date posted: 11-16-2009 * U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE EXECUTIVE OFFICE FOR U.S. TRUSTEES WASHINGTON, D.C. (1) EXPERIENCED TRIAL ATTORNEY (CIVIL ENFORCEMENT), GS-13/14/15 ANNOUNCEMENT NO. 09-46-14001 Applications must be postmarked by the closing date of December 07, 2009. Date posted: 11-16-2009 * U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE U.S. TRUSTEE'S OFFICE -- WILMINGTON, DE TRIAL ATTORNEY VACANCY ANNOUNCEMENT NUMBER DELA-ATTY-1101 Applications must be postmarked by the closing date of 12/02/2009 and will be accepted up to five calendar days after the closing date. Date posted: 11-16-2009 * U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE EXECUTIVE OFFICE FOR U.S. TRUSTEES WASHINGTON, D.C. (1) EXPERIENCED TRIAL ATTORNEY, ASSOCIATE GENERAL COUNSEL (GENERAL AND ADMINISTRATIVE LAW), GS-905-15 ANNOUNCEMENT NO. 09-45-14002 Applications must be postmarked by the closing date of December 11, 2009. Date posted: 11-13-2009 * U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE EXECUTIVE OFFICE FOR U.S. TRUSTEES WASHINGTON, D.C. (1) EXPERIENCED TRIAL ATTORNEY, ASSOCIATE GENERAL COUNSEL (CHAPTER 11), GS-905-15 ANNOUNCEMENT NO. 09-45-14003 Applications must be postmarked by the closing date of December 11, 2009. Date posted: 11-13-2009 * UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE EASTERN DISTRICT OF CALIFORNIA ASSISTANT UNITED STATES ATTORNEY SACRAMENTO, CALIFORNIA NOVEMBER 13, 2009 10-EDCA-04A Date posted: 11-13-2009 * UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE EASTERN DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA ASSISTANT UNITED STATES ATTORNEY RALEIGH, NORTH CAROLINA 10-EDNC-AUSA-01 Positions are opened until filled. The initial cut-off date for the receipt of applications is November 18, 2009. Date posted: 11-10-2009 * U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE CIVIL RIGHTS DIVISION, OFFICE OF THE ASSISTANT ATTORNEY GENERAL SPECIAL COUNSEL FOR FAIR LENDING, GS-15 This position is open until December 1, 2009. Date posted: 11-10-2009 * U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE U.S. TRUSTEE PROGRAM -- ALEXANDRIA, VA ASSISTANT UNITED STATES TRUSTEE VACANCY ANNOUNCEMENT #AX-0016 This position will be open until December 4, 2009. Date posted: 11-10-2009 The purpose of this email is to advise potential interested persons of employment opportunities at the Department of Justice. The Department of Justice cannot control further dissemination and/or posting of this information. Such posting and/or dissemination is not an endorsement by the Department of the organization or group disseminating and/or posting the information. -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Jobs mailing list Jobs at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/jobs_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Jobs: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/jobs_nfbnet.org/noel.nightingale%40ed.gov From ukekearuaro at valtdnet.com Wed Dec 2 22:40:50 2009 From: ukekearuaro at valtdnet.com (Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc.) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 15:40:50 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel References: <20091201.125747.428.71023@mailpop05.vgs.untd.com><85DE4073835C47F28015FC74C33ED11D@valtd> <310AF3C9782240EE9AA780A4AD12CEAB@spike> Message-ID: Chuck, I sell cruises amongst other things I do; mostly on Carnival; they have been extremely good with all my passengers whether disabled or not. I have three groups going out in July and August of 2010, narrowly missed a chance to get a group out to Alaska. Sincerely, Olusegun Denver, Colorado From jimi-law at dc.rr.com Wed Dec 2 23:08:54 2009 From: jimi-law at dc.rr.com (James Weisberg) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 15:08:54 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel In-Reply-To: <027601ca7393$4693d280$d3bb7780$@com> References: <20091201.125747.428.71023@mailpop05.vgs.untd.com> <93D426D90E0F47678A7E578E71609E06@screnci.local> <027601ca7393$4693d280$d3bb7780$@com> Message-ID: <003B92E643764A4EBC61041B985FF563@screnci.local> In retrospect it's actually kind of funny although at the time it wasn't. I travel with a Guide Dog. So, as it was discussed in this thread, I made advance arrangements to be seated in the "bulkhead" seat which affords more foot space so the dog can be in a position whereby she is not entirely on my feet nor the feet of the person next to me. No problem. When I get to the airport to check in I get assistance to the gate since the dog has yet to learn to read much to my consternation. When I get to the gate I check in and inform the attendant about the Guide Dog and confirm the placement in the bulkhead seat. At this time I also inquire if the plane is full, sometimes it is not, as in this instance. I inform the attendant they may wish to juggle the passengers around and leave the seat next to me empty so they do not have a paying passenger with a dog on their legs for the entire trip. Never had a problem when put in these terms. I also inform them the window seat is necessary to keep the dog from sticking into the isle. So a window, bulkhead seat with and empty seat next to me is ideal for me, the dog, and the passenger who would otherwise be seated next to me. Get on the plane and in my window bulk head seat which has been assigned to me along with leaving the seat next to me empty which was arranged at the gate. I am traveling with a cat in a container which I have paid to bring on the plane and immediately after taking my seat I place the cat container in the seat next to me to get "situated." As soon as I am seated I am confronted by a stew who says I will have to change seats to another row; non bulkhead. I think it was the cat container b/c the rules I believe are it has to be placed under the seat in front of you and a bulkhead seat has no seat in front of it so . . . On my travels the other way with the cat six months earlier the container was taken and moved to an appropriate place on the plane to the entertainment of the other passengers. Anyways, I politely inform the stew I cannot move to another row and attempt to explain my particular circumstances which make this so. He interrupts me and starts to berate me, and here comes the funny part, he actually says to me, "we have disabled passengers who have paid for these seats (the two next to me)." Keep in mind I am sitting there with a dog in harness that says "Guide Dogs for the Blind." This guy is a real genius. I just tell him after that to het his supervisor. The sup shows and gives me the same routine stating there is an entire empty row in the rear of the plane (where of course only I would be inconvenienced without a place for MY feet). So instead of moving the passengers across the isle in the bulkhead row to the empty row of seats and allowing the other disabled passengers to take the bulk head across the row from me they instead stuck a nice old woman and her daughter next to me (nobody disabled) and this nice woman took it in stride with grace and dealt with a dog on her feet for four plus hours. The humiliation comes from, if not obvious, having my disability pointed out to all on the plane who hadn't already noticed in a demeaning manner (which would not have occurred but for the disability)thereafter followed up by their non accommodating my request to me indicates indifference to the needs of those similarly situated as I when traveling. Seems like the airline I refer is in need of some modification to their training. I think I may help them out toward that end. James W. Weisberg, Esq. Law Office of J. William Weisberg 299 South Patencio Road #3 Palm Springs, California 92262 V: 916.425.1010 F: 916.374.7667 E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com Admitted in Wisconsin Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil Rights Advocacy for Children with Diabetes This message contains information which may be confidential and privileged. Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from your system. This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client relationship nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William Weisberg expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in accordance with this disclaimer. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of WB Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 1:06 PM To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel Well, exactly how wer you marginalized is what the question is I think. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of James Weisberg Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 2:40 PM To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel being marginalized because of something (my case disability)in front of a plane full of passengers is humiliating. No? James W. Weisberg, Esq. Law Office of J. William Weisberg 299 South Patencio Road #3 Palm Springs, California 92262 V: 916.425.1010 F: 916.374.7667 E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com Admitted in Wisconsin Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil Rights Advocacy for Children with Diabetes This message contains information which may be confidential and privileged. Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from your system. This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client relationship nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William Weisberg expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in accordance with this disclaimer. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 11:19 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel In your opinion, how were you humiliated? Steve Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Weisberg" To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 1:01 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > As the original poster of this thread I wanted to point out the reason for > my inquiry was not related to accommodations but rather being publicly > humiliated by air carrier staff (stew) which of course is a common carrier > and that's a big "no no." Since the humiliation was based upon the > presence > of a guide dog the ADA first came to mind. > > > > Finally, Ben you rock dude!! > > > James W. Weisberg, Esq. > > Law Office of J. William Weisberg > > 299 South Patencio Road #3 > > Palm Springs, California 92262 > > V: 916.425.1010 > > F: 916.374.7667 > > E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com > > Admitted in Wisconsin > > Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil Rights > Advocacy for Children with Diabetes > > This message contains information which may be confidential and > privileged. > Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), > you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information > contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, > please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from your > system. > > This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client > relationship > nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William > Weisberg > expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in > accordance with this disclaimer. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of stiehm.law > Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 12:58 PM > To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org > Cc: blindlaw at nfbnet.org > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > > In addition to the airlines, I have recently become curious as to what if > any, accommodations for the TSA makes with respect to disabled people > going through security and being picked up by somebody at the gate at the > terminal at the other end of the flight. For example, do they permit a > blind person who is traveling alone to be accompanied through security, > down to the airline check-in counter at the gate by a non-ticketed > person. > > At the other end, is a non-ticketed person permitted through security to > go to the gate to meet a blind person flying alone? > > If TSA does not provide for such accommodations do the airlines take it > on themselves to provide this service? > > Has anybody had any experience in this regard? Is the accommodation, if > any, voluntary on the part of the TSA and/or the airlines or is it > governed by regulation? > > Patrick H. Stiehm > Stiehm Law Office > Alexandria, VA 22309 > 703-360-1089 (Voice) > 703-935-8266 (Fax) > > > > Tue, 1 Dec 2009 11:30:37 -0800 "Russell J. Thomas, Jr." > writes: >> Off the top of my head, and without any new research, the only case >> I >> remember is a case challenging the accessibility of airline websites >> with >> respect to attempting to make reservations and ordering tickets on >> line. >> >> I also think that there are regulations on the subject, especially >> dealing >> with how disabled passengers are to be treated (or perhaps on some >> occasions >> mistreated). >> >> I often thought it would be a good idea for the NFB to put together >> a short >> guide book concerning travel, including air travel, based upon >> experiences >> of NFB members, to be used as a reference guide for blind people who >> use air >> travel. Certainly things have changed since 911--some changes for >> the good, >> and others not so good. >> >> >> >> >> Respectfully, >> >> >> >> Russell J. Thomas, Jr. >> >> THOMAS & ASSOCIATES >> >> www.californiaemployersattorneys.com >> >> >> >> Orange County Office >> >> 4121 Westerly Place, Suite 101 >> >> Newport Beach, California 92660 >> >> T: (949) 752-0101 >> >> F: (949) 257-4756 >> >> M: (949) 466-7238 >> >> >> >> Beverly Hills Office >> >> 9107 Wilshire Boulevard, Suite 450 >> >> Beverly Hills, California 90210 >> >> T: (310) 461-3561 >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf Of James Weisberg >> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 10:01 AM >> To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' >> Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel >> >> Hi Folks: >> >> >> >> Anyone on the lists have experience or knowledge regarding the ADA >> and suits >> against air carriers for violations available for quick consult? >> Thanks. >> >> >> >> James W. Weisberg, Esq. >> >> Law Office of J. William Weisberg >> >> 299 South Patencio Road #3 >> >> Palm Springs, California 92262 >> >> V: 916.425.1010 >> >> F: 916.374.7667 >> >> E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com >> >> Admitted in Wisconsin >> >> Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil >> Rights >> Advocacy for Children with Diabetes >> >> This message contains information which may be confidential and >> privileged. >> Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the >> addressee), >> you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any >> information >> contained in this message. If you have received this message in >> error, >> please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from >> your >> system. >> >> This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client >> relationship >> nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William >> Weisberg >> expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information >> in >> accordance with this disclaimer. >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for >> blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rthomas%40rjtla > wfi >> rm.com >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stiehm.law%40ju > no.com >> > > ____________________________________________________________ > Hotel > Hotel pics, info and virtual tours. Click here to book a hotel online. > http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/c?cp=ewJKbyZ61QloDsW_i_oQ_wAAJ1BdRO > y9vkzpR6E_Fj7jZTbnAAYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAATRAAAAAA= > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jimi-law%40dc.rr.c > om > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4652 (20091201) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4652 (20091201) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4653 (20091201) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4655 (20091202) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4655 (20091202) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in sightbb.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.426 / Virus Database: 270.14.90/2540 - Release Date: 12/02/09 07:33:00 _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jimi-law%40dc.rr.c om __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4656 (20091202) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4656 (20091202) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4656 (20091202) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniverse08%40gma il.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jimi-law%40dc.rr.c om __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4656 (20091202) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4656 (20091202) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4656 (20091202) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com From stevep.deeley at insightbb.com Wed Dec 2 23:09:22 2009 From: stevep.deeley at insightbb.com (Steve P. Deeley) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 18:09:22 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel In-Reply-To: <93D426D90E0F47678A7E578E71609E06@screnci.local> References: <20091201.125747.428.71023@mailpop05.vgs.untd.com> <93D426D90E0F47678A7E578E71609E06@screnci.local> Message-ID: How, in your opinion were your marginalized. I don't know your definition of marginalized. Give us a little of the vignette that took place in front of the passengers. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Weisberg" To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 3:40 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > being marginalized because of something (my case disability)in front of a > plane full of passengers is humiliating. No? > > James W. Weisberg, Esq. > > Law Office of J. William Weisberg > > 299 South Patencio Road #3 > > Palm Springs, California 92262 > > V: 916.425.1010 > > F: 916.374.7667 > > E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com > > Admitted in Wisconsin > > Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil Rights > Advocacy for Children with Diabetes > > This message contains information which may be confidential and > privileged. > Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), > you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information > contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, > please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from your > system. > > This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client > relationship > nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William > Weisberg > expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in > accordance with this disclaimer. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 11:19 AM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > > In your opinion, how were you humiliated? > Steve > Steve > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "James Weisberg" > To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 1:01 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > > >> As the original poster of this thread I wanted to point out the reason >> for >> my inquiry was not related to accommodations but rather being publicly >> humiliated by air carrier staff (stew) which of course is a common >> carrier >> and that's a big "no no." Since the humiliation was based upon the >> presence >> of a guide dog the ADA first came to mind. >> >> >> >> Finally, Ben you rock dude!! >> >> >> James W. Weisberg, Esq. >> >> Law Office of J. William Weisberg >> >> 299 South Patencio Road #3 >> >> Palm Springs, California 92262 >> >> V: 916.425.1010 >> >> F: 916.374.7667 >> >> E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com >> >> Admitted in Wisconsin >> >> Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil Rights >> Advocacy for Children with Diabetes >> >> This message contains information which may be confidential and >> privileged. >> Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the >> addressee), >> you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any >> information >> contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, >> please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from your >> system. >> >> This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client >> relationship >> nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William >> Weisberg >> expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in >> accordance with this disclaimer. >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf Of stiehm.law >> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 12:58 PM >> To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> Cc: blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel >> >> In addition to the airlines, I have recently become curious as to what if >> any, accommodations for the TSA makes with respect to disabled people >> going through security and being picked up by somebody at the gate at the >> terminal at the other end of the flight. For example, do they permit a >> blind person who is traveling alone to be accompanied through security, >> down to the airline check-in counter at the gate by a non-ticketed >> person. >> >> At the other end, is a non-ticketed person permitted through security to >> go to the gate to meet a blind person flying alone? >> >> If TSA does not provide for such accommodations do the airlines take it >> on themselves to provide this service? >> >> Has anybody had any experience in this regard? Is the accommodation, if >> any, voluntary on the part of the TSA and/or the airlines or is it >> governed by regulation? >> >> Patrick H. Stiehm >> Stiehm Law Office >> Alexandria, VA 22309 >> 703-360-1089 (Voice) >> 703-935-8266 (Fax) >> >> >> >> Tue, 1 Dec 2009 11:30:37 -0800 "Russell J. Thomas, Jr." >> writes: >>> Off the top of my head, and without any new research, the only case >>> I >>> remember is a case challenging the accessibility of airline websites >>> with >>> respect to attempting to make reservations and ordering tickets on >>> line. >>> >>> I also think that there are regulations on the subject, especially >>> dealing >>> with how disabled passengers are to be treated (or perhaps on some >>> occasions >>> mistreated). >>> >>> I often thought it would be a good idea for the NFB to put together >>> a short >>> guide book concerning travel, including air travel, based upon >>> experiences >>> of NFB members, to be used as a reference guide for blind people who >>> use air >>> travel. Certainly things have changed since 911--some changes for >>> the good, >>> and others not so good. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Respectfully, >>> >>> >>> >>> Russell J. Thomas, Jr. >>> >>> THOMAS & ASSOCIATES >>> >>> www.californiaemployersattorneys.com >>> >>> >>> >>> Orange County Office >>> >>> 4121 Westerly Place, Suite 101 >>> >>> Newport Beach, California 92660 >>> >>> T: (949) 752-0101 >>> >>> F: (949) 257-4756 >>> >>> M: (949) 466-7238 >>> >>> >>> >>> Beverly Hills Office >>> >>> 9107 Wilshire Boulevard, Suite 450 >>> >>> Beverly Hills, California 90210 >>> >>> T: (310) 461-3561 >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>> Behalf Of James Weisberg >>> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 10:01 AM >>> To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' >>> Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel >>> >>> Hi Folks: >>> >>> >>> >>> Anyone on the lists have experience or knowledge regarding the ADA >>> and suits >>> against air carriers for violations available for quick consult? >>> Thanks. >>> >>> >>> >>> James W. Weisberg, Esq. >>> >>> Law Office of J. William Weisberg >>> >>> 299 South Patencio Road #3 >>> >>> Palm Springs, California 92262 >>> >>> V: 916.425.1010 >>> >>> F: 916.374.7667 >>> >>> E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com >>> >>> Admitted in Wisconsin >>> >>> Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil >>> Rights >>> Advocacy for Children with Diabetes >>> >>> This message contains information which may be confidential and >>> privileged. >>> Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the >>> addressee), >>> you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any >>> information >>> contained in this message. If you have received this message in >>> error, >>> please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from >>> your >>> system. >>> >>> This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client >>> relationship >>> nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William >>> Weisberg >>> expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information >>> in >>> accordance with this disclaimer. >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> blindlaw: >>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rthomas%40rjtla >> wfi >>> rm.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for blindlaw: >>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stiehm.law%40ju >> no.com >>> >> >> ____________________________________________________________ >> Hotel >> Hotel pics, info and virtual tours. Click here to book a hotel online. >> > http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/c?cp=ewJKbyZ61QloDsW_i_oQ_wAAJ1BdRO >> y9vkzpR6E_Fj7jZTbnAAYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAATRAAAAAA= >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jimi-law%40dc.rr.c >> om >> >> __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus >> signature >> database 4652 (20091201) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus >> signature >> database 4652 (20091201) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus >> signature >> database 4653 (20091201) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus >> signature >> database 4655 (20091202) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus >> signature >> database 4655 (20091202) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in > sightbb.com > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.426 / Virus Database: 270.14.90/2540 - Release Date: 12/02/09 > 07:33:00 > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jimi-law%40dc.rr.c > om > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4656 (20091202) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4656 (20091202) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4656 (20091202) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.426 / Virus Database: 270.14.91/2541 - Release Date: 12/02/09 19:43:00 From mruniverse08 at gmail.com Wed Dec 2 23:14:17 2009 From: mruniverse08 at gmail.com (WB) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 17:14:17 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel In-Reply-To: <003B92E643764A4EBC61041B985FF563@screnci.local> References: <20091201.125747.428.71023@mailpop05.vgs.untd.com> <93D426D90E0F47678A7E578E71609E06@screnci.local> <027601ca7393$4693d280$d3bb7780$@com> <003B92E643764A4EBC61041B985FF563@screnci.local> Message-ID: <02cc01ca73a5$2c438120$84ca8360$@com> After reading this detail, the earlier e-mails you sent now make sense to me. That's very sad that those attendants were not in line with whatever training they received. I'm sure they had to have had some and from what you say, it doesn't seem like they put any of it into practice. Has the airline powers that be turned their noses up to your requests for information on their training program or requests for some type of being made whole? I'm curious as I've never experienced anything to the level of which you speak. Thanks for sharing. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of James Weisberg Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 5:09 PM To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel In retrospect it's actually kind of funny although at the time it wasn't. I travel with a Guide Dog. So, as it was discussed in this thread, I made advance arrangements to be seated in the "bulkhead" seat which affords more foot space so the dog can be in a position whereby she is not entirely on my feet nor the feet of the person next to me. No problem. When I get to the airport to check in I get assistance to the gate since the dog has yet to learn to read much to my consternation. When I get to the gate I check in and inform the attendant about the Guide Dog and confirm the placement in the bulkhead seat. At this time I also inquire if the plane is full, sometimes it is not, as in this instance. I inform the attendant they may wish to juggle the passengers around and leave the seat next to me empty so they do not have a paying passenger with a dog on their legs for the entire trip. Never had a problem when put in these terms. I also inform them the window seat is necessary to keep the dog from sticking into the isle. So a window, bulkhead seat with and empty seat next to me is ideal for me, the dog, and the passenger who would otherwise be seated next to me. Get on the plane and in my window bulk head seat which has been assigned to me along with leaving the seat next to me empty which was arranged at the gate. I am traveling with a cat in a container which I have paid to bring on the plane and immediately after taking my seat I place the cat container in the seat next to me to get "situated." As soon as I am seated I am confronted by a stew who says I will have to change seats to another row; non bulkhead. I think it was the cat container b/c the rules I believe are it has to be placed under the seat in front of you and a bulkhead seat has no seat in front of it so . . . On my travels the other way with the cat six months earlier the container was taken and moved to an appropriate place on the plane to the entertainment of the other passengers. Anyways, I politely inform the stew I cannot move to another row and attempt to explain my particular circumstances which make this so. He interrupts me and starts to berate me, and here comes the funny part, he actually says to me, "we have disabled passengers who have paid for these seats (the two next to me)." Keep in mind I am sitting there with a dog in harness that says "Guide Dogs for the Blind." This guy is a real genius. I just tell him after that to het his supervisor. The sup shows and gives me the same routine stating there is an entire empty row in the rear of the plane (where of course only I would be inconvenienced without a place for MY feet). So instead of moving the passengers across the isle in the bulkhead row to the empty row of seats and allowing the other disabled passengers to take the bulk head across the row from me they instead stuck a nice old woman and her daughter next to me (nobody disabled) and this nice woman took it in stride with grace and dealt with a dog on her feet for four plus hours. The humiliation comes from, if not obvious, having my disability pointed out to all on the plane who hadn't already noticed in a demeaning manner (which would not have occurred but for the disability)thereafter followed up by their non accommodating my request to me indicates indifference to the needs of those similarly situated as I when traveling. Seems like the airline I refer is in need of some modification to their training. I think I may help them out toward that end. James W. Weisberg, Esq. Law Office of J. William Weisberg 299 South Patencio Road #3 Palm Springs, California 92262 V: 916.425.1010 F: 916.374.7667 E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com Admitted in Wisconsin Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil Rights Advocacy for Children with Diabetes This message contains information which may be confidential and privileged. Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from your system. This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client relationship nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William Weisberg expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in accordance with this disclaimer. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of WB Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 1:06 PM To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel Well, exactly how wer you marginalized is what the question is I think. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of James Weisberg Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 2:40 PM To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel being marginalized because of something (my case disability)in front of a plane full of passengers is humiliating. No? James W. Weisberg, Esq. Law Office of J. William Weisberg 299 South Patencio Road #3 Palm Springs, California 92262 V: 916.425.1010 F: 916.374.7667 E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com Admitted in Wisconsin Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil Rights Advocacy for Children with Diabetes This message contains information which may be confidential and privileged. Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from your system. This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client relationship nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William Weisberg expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in accordance with this disclaimer. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 11:19 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel In your opinion, how were you humiliated? Steve Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Weisberg" To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 1:01 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > As the original poster of this thread I wanted to point out the reason for > my inquiry was not related to accommodations but rather being publicly > humiliated by air carrier staff (stew) which of course is a common carrier > and that's a big "no no." Since the humiliation was based upon the > presence > of a guide dog the ADA first came to mind. > > > > Finally, Ben you rock dude!! > > > James W. Weisberg, Esq. > > Law Office of J. William Weisberg > > 299 South Patencio Road #3 > > Palm Springs, California 92262 > > V: 916.425.1010 > > F: 916.374.7667 > > E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com > > Admitted in Wisconsin > > Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil Rights > Advocacy for Children with Diabetes > > This message contains information which may be confidential and > privileged. > Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), > you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information > contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, > please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from your > system. > > This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client > relationship > nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William > Weisberg > expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in > accordance with this disclaimer. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of stiehm.law > Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 12:58 PM > To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org > Cc: blindlaw at nfbnet.org > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > > In addition to the airlines, I have recently become curious as to what if > any, accommodations for the TSA makes with respect to disabled people > going through security and being picked up by somebody at the gate at the > terminal at the other end of the flight. For example, do they permit a > blind person who is traveling alone to be accompanied through security, > down to the airline check-in counter at the gate by a non-ticketed > person. > > At the other end, is a non-ticketed person permitted through security to > go to the gate to meet a blind person flying alone? > > If TSA does not provide for such accommodations do the airlines take it > on themselves to provide this service? > > Has anybody had any experience in this regard? Is the accommodation, if > any, voluntary on the part of the TSA and/or the airlines or is it > governed by regulation? > > Patrick H. Stiehm > Stiehm Law Office > Alexandria, VA 22309 > 703-360-1089 (Voice) > 703-935-8266 (Fax) > > > > Tue, 1 Dec 2009 11:30:37 -0800 "Russell J. Thomas, Jr." > writes: >> Off the top of my head, and without any new research, the only case >> I >> remember is a case challenging the accessibility of airline websites >> with >> respect to attempting to make reservations and ordering tickets on >> line. >> >> I also think that there are regulations on the subject, especially >> dealing >> with how disabled passengers are to be treated (or perhaps on some >> occasions >> mistreated). >> >> I often thought it would be a good idea for the NFB to put together >> a short >> guide book concerning travel, including air travel, based upon >> experiences >> of NFB members, to be used as a reference guide for blind people who >> use air >> travel. Certainly things have changed since 911--some changes for >> the good, >> and others not so good. >> >> >> >> >> Respectfully, >> >> >> >> Russell J. Thomas, Jr. >> >> THOMAS & ASSOCIATES >> >> www.californiaemployersattorneys.com >> >> >> >> Orange County Office >> >> 4121 Westerly Place, Suite 101 >> >> Newport Beach, California 92660 >> >> T: (949) 752-0101 >> >> F: (949) 257-4756 >> >> M: (949) 466-7238 >> >> >> >> Beverly Hills Office >> >> 9107 Wilshire Boulevard, Suite 450 >> >> Beverly Hills, California 90210 >> >> T: (310) 461-3561 >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf Of James Weisberg >> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 10:01 AM >> To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' >> Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel >> >> Hi Folks: >> >> >> >> Anyone on the lists have experience or knowledge regarding the ADA >> and suits >> against air carriers for violations available for quick consult? >> Thanks. >> >> >> >> James W. Weisberg, Esq. >> >> Law Office of J. William Weisberg >> >> 299 South Patencio Road #3 >> >> Palm Springs, California 92262 >> >> V: 916.425.1010 >> >> F: 916.374.7667 >> >> E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com >> >> Admitted in Wisconsin >> >> Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil >> Rights >> Advocacy for Children with Diabetes >> >> This message contains information which may be confidential and >> privileged. >> Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the >> addressee), >> you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any >> information >> contained in this message. If you have received this message in >> error, >> please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from >> your >> system. >> >> This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client >> relationship >> nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William >> Weisberg >> expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information >> in >> accordance with this disclaimer. >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for >> blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rthomas%40rjtla > wfi >> rm.com >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stiehm.law%40ju > no.com >> > > ____________________________________________________________ > Hotel > Hotel pics, info and virtual tours. Click here to book a hotel online. > http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/c?cp=ewJKbyZ61QloDsW_i_oQ_wAAJ1BdRO > y9vkzpR6E_Fj7jZTbnAAYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAATRAAAAAA= > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jimi-law%40dc.rr.c > om > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4652 (20091201) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4652 (20091201) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4653 (20091201) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4655 (20091202) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4655 (20091202) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in sightbb.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.426 / Virus Database: 270.14.90/2540 - Release Date: 12/02/09 07:33:00 _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jimi-law%40dc.rr.c om __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4656 (20091202) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4656 (20091202) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4656 (20091202) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniverse08%40gma il.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jimi-law%40dc.rr.c om __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4656 (20091202) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4656 (20091202) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4656 (20091202) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniverse08%40gma il.com From stevep.deeley at insightbb.com Wed Dec 2 23:20:05 2009 From: stevep.deeley at insightbb.com (Steve P. Deeley) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 18:20:05 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel In-Reply-To: <027601ca7393$4693d280$d3bb7780$@com> References: <20091201.125747.428.71023@mailpop05.vgs.untd.com> <93D426D90E0F47678A7E578E71609E06@screnci.local> <027601ca7393$4693d280$d3bb7780$@com> Message-ID: <343B81A82AB34AD19538ADDD33AA3F65@StevePC> Exactly!!! ----- Original Message ----- From: "WB" To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 4:06 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > Well, exactly how wer you marginalized is what the question is I think. > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of James Weisberg > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 2:40 PM > To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > > being marginalized because of something (my case disability)in front of a > plane full of passengers is humiliating. No? > > James W. Weisberg, Esq. > > Law Office of J. William Weisberg > > 299 South Patencio Road #3 > > Palm Springs, California 92262 > > V: 916.425.1010 > > F: 916.374.7667 > > E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com > > Admitted in Wisconsin > > Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil Rights > Advocacy for Children with Diabetes > > This message contains information which may be confidential and > privileged. > Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), > you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information > contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, > please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from your > system. > > This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client > relationship > nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William > Weisberg > expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in > accordance with this disclaimer. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 11:19 AM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > > In your opinion, how were you humiliated? > Steve > Steve > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "James Weisberg" > To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 1:01 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > > >> As the original poster of this thread I wanted to point out the reason >> for >> my inquiry was not related to accommodations but rather being publicly >> humiliated by air carrier staff (stew) which of course is a common >> carrier >> and that's a big "no no." Since the humiliation was based upon the >> presence >> of a guide dog the ADA first came to mind. >> >> >> >> Finally, Ben you rock dude!! >> >> >> James W. Weisberg, Esq. >> >> Law Office of J. William Weisberg >> >> 299 South Patencio Road #3 >> >> Palm Springs, California 92262 >> >> V: 916.425.1010 >> >> F: 916.374.7667 >> >> E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com >> >> Admitted in Wisconsin >> >> Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil Rights >> Advocacy for Children with Diabetes >> >> This message contains information which may be confidential and >> privileged. >> Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the >> addressee), >> you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any >> information >> contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, >> please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from your >> system. >> >> This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client >> relationship >> nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William >> Weisberg >> expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in >> accordance with this disclaimer. >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf Of stiehm.law >> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 12:58 PM >> To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> Cc: blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel >> >> In addition to the airlines, I have recently become curious as to what if >> any, accommodations for the TSA makes with respect to disabled people >> going through security and being picked up by somebody at the gate at the >> terminal at the other end of the flight. For example, do they permit a >> blind person who is traveling alone to be accompanied through security, >> down to the airline check-in counter at the gate by a non-ticketed >> person. >> >> At the other end, is a non-ticketed person permitted through security to >> go to the gate to meet a blind person flying alone? >> >> If TSA does not provide for such accommodations do the airlines take it >> on themselves to provide this service? >> >> Has anybody had any experience in this regard? Is the accommodation, if >> any, voluntary on the part of the TSA and/or the airlines or is it >> governed by regulation? >> >> Patrick H. Stiehm >> Stiehm Law Office >> Alexandria, VA 22309 >> 703-360-1089 (Voice) >> 703-935-8266 (Fax) >> >> >> >> Tue, 1 Dec 2009 11:30:37 -0800 "Russell J. Thomas, Jr." >> writes: >>> Off the top of my head, and without any new research, the only case >>> I >>> remember is a case challenging the accessibility of airline websites >>> with >>> respect to attempting to make reservations and ordering tickets on >>> line. >>> >>> I also think that there are regulations on the subject, especially >>> dealing >>> with how disabled passengers are to be treated (or perhaps on some >>> occasions >>> mistreated). >>> >>> I often thought it would be a good idea for the NFB to put together >>> a short >>> guide book concerning travel, including air travel, based upon >>> experiences >>> of NFB members, to be used as a reference guide for blind people who >>> use air >>> travel. Certainly things have changed since 911--some changes for >>> the good, >>> and others not so good. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Respectfully, >>> >>> >>> >>> Russell J. Thomas, Jr. >>> >>> THOMAS & ASSOCIATES >>> >>> www.californiaemployersattorneys.com >>> >>> >>> >>> Orange County Office >>> >>> 4121 Westerly Place, Suite 101 >>> >>> Newport Beach, California 92660 >>> >>> T: (949) 752-0101 >>> >>> F: (949) 257-4756 >>> >>> M: (949) 466-7238 >>> >>> >>> >>> Beverly Hills Office >>> >>> 9107 Wilshire Boulevard, Suite 450 >>> >>> Beverly Hills, California 90210 >>> >>> T: (310) 461-3561 >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>> Behalf Of James Weisberg >>> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 10:01 AM >>> To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' >>> Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel >>> >>> Hi Folks: >>> >>> >>> >>> Anyone on the lists have experience or knowledge regarding the ADA >>> and suits >>> against air carriers for violations available for quick consult? >>> Thanks. >>> >>> >>> >>> James W. Weisberg, Esq. >>> >>> Law Office of J. William Weisberg >>> >>> 299 South Patencio Road #3 >>> >>> Palm Springs, California 92262 >>> >>> V: 916.425.1010 >>> >>> F: 916.374.7667 >>> >>> E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com >>> >>> Admitted in Wisconsin >>> >>> Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil >>> Rights >>> Advocacy for Children with Diabetes >>> >>> This message contains information which may be confidential and >>> privileged. >>> Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the >>> addressee), >>> you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any >>> information >>> contained in this message. If you have received this message in >>> error, >>> please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from >>> your >>> system. >>> >>> This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client >>> relationship >>> nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William >>> Weisberg >>> expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information >>> in >>> accordance with this disclaimer. >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> blindlaw: >>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rthomas%40rjtla >> wfi >>> rm.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for blindlaw: >>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stiehm.law%40ju >> no.com >>> >> >> ____________________________________________________________ >> Hotel >> Hotel pics, info and virtual tours. Click here to book a hotel online. >> > http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/c?cp=ewJKbyZ61QloDsW_i_oQ_wAAJ1BdRO >> y9vkzpR6E_Fj7jZTbnAAYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAATRAAAAAA= >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jimi-law%40dc.rr.c >> om >> >> __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus >> signature >> database 4652 (20091201) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus >> signature >> database 4652 (20091201) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus >> signature >> database 4653 (20091201) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus >> signature >> database 4655 (20091202) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus >> signature >> database 4655 (20091202) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in > sightbb.com > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.426 / Virus Database: 270.14.90/2540 - Release Date: 12/02/09 > 07:33:00 > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jimi-law%40dc.rr.c > om > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4656 (20091202) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4656 (20091202) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4656 (20091202) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniverse08%40gma > il.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.426 / Virus Database: 270.14.91/2541 - Release Date: 12/02/09 19:43:00 From stevep.deeley at insightbb.com Thu Dec 3 00:19:03 2009 From: stevep.deeley at insightbb.com (Steve P. Deeley) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 19:19:03 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel In-Reply-To: <003B92E643764A4EBC61041B985FF563@screnci.local> References: <20091201.125747.428.71023@mailpop05.vgs.untd.com> <93D426D90E0F47678A7E578E71609E06@screnci.local> <027601ca7393$4693d280$d3bb7780$@com> <003B92E643764A4EBC61041B985FF563@screnci.local> Message-ID: <5C3F1B998E56410090FAE5D9E278050A@StevePC> I think you just get some thicker skin and go on with your life. A bad break but not worth monetary damages. Steve----- Original Message ----- From: "James Weisberg" To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 6:08 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > In retrospect it's actually kind of funny although at the time it wasn't. > I > travel with a Guide Dog. So, as it was discussed in this thread, I made > advance arrangements to be seated in the "bulkhead" seat which affords > more > foot space so the dog can be in a position whereby she is not entirely on > my > feet nor the feet of the person next to me. No problem. When I get to > the > airport to check in I get assistance to the gate since the dog has yet to > learn to read much to my consternation. When I get to the gate I check in > and inform the attendant about the Guide Dog and confirm the placement in > the bulkhead seat. At this time I also inquire if the plane is full, > sometimes it is not, as in this instance. I inform the attendant they may > wish to juggle the passengers around and leave the seat next to me empty > so > they do not have a paying passenger with a dog on their legs for the > entire > trip. Never had a problem when put in these terms. I also inform them > the > window seat is necessary to keep the dog from sticking into the isle. So > a > window, bulkhead seat with and empty seat next to me is ideal for me, the > dog, and the passenger who would otherwise be seated next to me. > > Get on the plane and in my window bulk head seat which has been assigned > to > me along with leaving the seat next to me empty which was arranged at the > gate. I am traveling with a cat in a container which I have paid to bring > on the plane and immediately after taking my seat I place the cat > container > in the seat next to me to get "situated." As soon as I am seated I am > confronted by a stew who says I will have to change seats to another row; > non bulkhead. I think it was the cat container b/c the rules I believe > are > it has to be placed under the seat in front of you and a bulkhead seat has > no seat in front of it so . . . On my travels the other way with the cat > six months earlier the container was taken and moved to an appropriate > place > on the plane to the entertainment of the other passengers. Anyways, I > politely inform the stew I cannot move to another row and attempt to > explain > my particular circumstances which make this so. He interrupts me and > starts > to berate me, and here comes the funny part, he actually says to me, "we > have disabled passengers who have paid for these seats (the two next to > me)." Keep in mind I am sitting there with a dog in harness that says > "Guide Dogs for the Blind." This guy is a real genius. I just tell him > after that to het his supervisor. The sup shows and gives me the same > routine stating there is an entire empty row in the rear of the plane > (where > of course only I would be inconvenienced without a place for MY feet). So > instead of moving the passengers across the isle in the bulkhead row to > the > empty row of seats and allowing the other disabled passengers to take the > bulk head across the row from me they instead stuck a nice old woman and > her > daughter next to me (nobody disabled) and this nice woman took it in > stride > with grace and dealt with a dog on her feet for four plus hours. > > The humiliation comes from, if not obvious, having my disability pointed > out > to all on the plane who hadn't already noticed in a demeaning manner > (which > would not have occurred but for the disability)thereafter followed up by > their non accommodating my request to me indicates indifference to the > needs > of those similarly situated as I when traveling. Seems like the airline I > refer is in need of some modification to their training. I think I may > help > them out toward that end. > > James W. Weisberg, Esq. > > Law Office of J. William Weisberg > > 299 South Patencio Road #3 > > Palm Springs, California 92262 > > V: 916.425.1010 > > F: 916.374.7667 > > E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com > > Admitted in Wisconsin > > Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil Rights > Advocacy for Children with Diabetes > > This message contains information which may be confidential and > privileged. > Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), > you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information > contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, > please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from your > system. > > This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client > relationship > nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William > Weisberg > expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in > accordance with this disclaimer. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of WB > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 1:06 PM > To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > > Well, exactly how wer you marginalized is what the question is I think. > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of James Weisberg > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 2:40 PM > To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > > being marginalized because of something (my case disability)in front of a > plane full of passengers is humiliating. No? > > James W. Weisberg, Esq. > > Law Office of J. William Weisberg > > 299 South Patencio Road #3 > > Palm Springs, California 92262 > > V: 916.425.1010 > > F: 916.374.7667 > > E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com > > Admitted in Wisconsin > > Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil Rights > Advocacy for Children with Diabetes > > This message contains information which may be confidential and > privileged. > Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), > you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information > contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, > please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from your > system. > > This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client > relationship > nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William > Weisberg > expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in > accordance with this disclaimer. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 11:19 AM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > > In your opinion, how were you humiliated? > Steve > Steve > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "James Weisberg" > To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 1:01 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > > >> As the original poster of this thread I wanted to point out the reason >> for >> my inquiry was not related to accommodations but rather being publicly >> humiliated by air carrier staff (stew) which of course is a common >> carrier >> and that's a big "no no." Since the humiliation was based upon the >> presence >> of a guide dog the ADA first came to mind. >> >> >> >> Finally, Ben you rock dude!! >> >> >> James W. Weisberg, Esq. >> >> Law Office of J. William Weisberg >> >> 299 South Patencio Road #3 >> >> Palm Springs, California 92262 >> >> V: 916.425.1010 >> >> F: 916.374.7667 >> >> E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com >> >> Admitted in Wisconsin >> >> Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil Rights >> Advocacy for Children with Diabetes >> >> This message contains information which may be confidential and >> privileged. >> Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the >> addressee), >> you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any >> information >> contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, >> please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from your >> system. >> >> This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client >> relationship >> nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William >> Weisberg >> expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in >> accordance with this disclaimer. >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf Of stiehm.law >> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 12:58 PM >> To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> Cc: blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel >> >> In addition to the airlines, I have recently become curious as to what if >> any, accommodations for the TSA makes with respect to disabled people >> going through security and being picked up by somebody at the gate at the >> terminal at the other end of the flight. For example, do they permit a >> blind person who is traveling alone to be accompanied through security, >> down to the airline check-in counter at the gate by a non-ticketed >> person. >> >> At the other end, is a non-ticketed person permitted through security to >> go to the gate to meet a blind person flying alone? >> >> If TSA does not provide for such accommodations do the airlines take it >> on themselves to provide this service? >> >> Has anybody had any experience in this regard? Is the accommodation, if >> any, voluntary on the part of the TSA and/or the airlines or is it >> governed by regulation? >> >> Patrick H. Stiehm >> Stiehm Law Office >> Alexandria, VA 22309 >> 703-360-1089 (Voice) >> 703-935-8266 (Fax) >> >> >> >> Tue, 1 Dec 2009 11:30:37 -0800 "Russell J. Thomas, Jr." >> writes: >>> Off the top of my head, and without any new research, the only case >>> I >>> remember is a case challenging the accessibility of airline websites >>> with >>> respect to attempting to make reservations and ordering tickets on >>> line. >>> >>> I also think that there are regulations on the subject, especially >>> dealing >>> with how disabled passengers are to be treated (or perhaps on some >>> occasions >>> mistreated). >>> >>> I often thought it would be a good idea for the NFB to put together >>> a short >>> guide book concerning travel, including air travel, based upon >>> experiences >>> of NFB members, to be used as a reference guide for blind people who >>> use air >>> travel. Certainly things have changed since 911--some changes for >>> the good, >>> and others not so good. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Respectfully, >>> >>> >>> >>> Russell J. Thomas, Jr. >>> >>> THOMAS & ASSOCIATES >>> >>> www.californiaemployersattorneys.com >>> >>> >>> >>> Orange County Office >>> >>> 4121 Westerly Place, Suite 101 >>> >>> Newport Beach, California 92660 >>> >>> T: (949) 752-0101 >>> >>> F: (949) 257-4756 >>> >>> M: (949) 466-7238 >>> >>> >>> >>> Beverly Hills Office >>> >>> 9107 Wilshire Boulevard, Suite 450 >>> >>> Beverly Hills, California 90210 >>> >>> T: (310) 461-3561 >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>> Behalf Of James Weisberg >>> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 10:01 AM >>> To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' >>> Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel >>> >>> Hi Folks: >>> >>> >>> >>> Anyone on the lists have experience or knowledge regarding the ADA >>> and suits >>> against air carriers for violations available for quick consult? >>> Thanks. >>> >>> >>> >>> James W. Weisberg, Esq. >>> >>> Law Office of J. William Weisberg >>> >>> 299 South Patencio Road #3 >>> >>> Palm Springs, California 92262 >>> >>> V: 916.425.1010 >>> >>> F: 916.374.7667 >>> >>> E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com >>> >>> Admitted in Wisconsin >>> >>> Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil >>> Rights >>> Advocacy for Children with Diabetes >>> >>> This message contains information which may be confidential and >>> privileged. >>> Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the >>> addressee), >>> you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any >>> information >>> contained in this message. If you have received this message in >>> error, >>> please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from >>> your >>> system. >>> >>> This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client >>> relationship >>> nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William >>> Weisberg >>> expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information >>> in >>> accordance with this disclaimer. >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> blindlaw: >>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rthomas%40rjtla >> wfi >>> rm.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for blindlaw: >>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stiehm.law%40ju >> no.com >>> >> >> ____________________________________________________________ >> Hotel >> Hotel pics, info and virtual tours. Click here to book a hotel online. >> > http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/c?cp=ewJKbyZ61QloDsW_i_oQ_wAAJ1BdRO >> y9vkzpR6E_Fj7jZTbnAAYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAATRAAAAAA= >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jimi-law%40dc.rr.c >> om >> >> __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus >> signature >> database 4652 (20091201) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus >> signature >> database 4652 (20091201) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus >> signature >> database 4653 (20091201) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus >> signature >> database 4655 (20091202) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus >> signature >> database 4655 (20091202) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in > sightbb.com > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.426 / Virus Database: 270.14.90/2540 - Release Date: 12/02/09 > 07:33:00 > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jimi-law%40dc.rr.c > om > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4656 (20091202) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4656 (20091202) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4656 (20091202) __________ > >The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniverse08%40gma > il.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jimi-law%40dc.rr.c > om > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4656 (20091202) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4656 (20091202) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4656 (20091202) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.426 / Virus Database: 270.14.91/2541 - Release Date: 12/02/09 19:43:00 From rthomas at rjtlawfirm.com Thu Dec 3 00:25:08 2009 From: rthomas at rjtlawfirm.com (Russell J. Thomas, Jr.) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 16:25:08 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel In-Reply-To: <003B92E643764A4EBC61041B985FF563@screnci.local> References: <20091201.125747.428.71023@mailpop05.vgs.untd.com> <93D426D90E0F47678A7E578E71609E06@screnci.local><027601ca7393$4693d280$d3bb7780$@com> <003B92E643764A4EBC61041B985FF563@screnci.local> Message-ID: If you travel enough you will encounter your share of idiots. Most of the time, airline and airport personnel try to be helpful--sometimes too helpful; and then there is the idiot. Respectfully, Russell J. Thomas, Jr. THOMAS & ASSOCIATES www.californiaemployersattorneys.com Orange County Office 4121 Westerly Place, Suite 101 Newport Beach, California 92660 T: (949) 752-0101 F: (949) 257-4756 M: (949) 466-7238 Beverly Hills Office 9107 Wilshire Boulevard, Suite 450 Beverly Hills, California 90210 T: (310) 461-3561 -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of James Weisberg Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 3:09 PM To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel In retrospect it's actually kind of funny although at the time it wasn't. I travel with a Guide Dog. So, as it was discussed in this thread, I made advance arrangements to be seated in the "bulkhead" seat which affords more foot space so the dog can be in a position whereby she is not entirely on my feet nor the feet of the person next to me. No problem. When I get to the airport to check in I get assistance to the gate since the dog has yet to learn to read much to my consternation. When I get to the gate I check in and inform the attendant about the Guide Dog and confirm the placement in the bulkhead seat. At this time I also inquire if the plane is full, sometimes it is not, as in this instance. I inform the attendant they may wish to juggle the passengers around and leave the seat next to me empty so they do not have a paying passenger with a dog on their legs for the entire trip. Never had a problem when put in these terms. I also inform them the window seat is necessary to keep the dog from sticking into the isle. So a window, bulkhead seat with and empty seat next to me is ideal for me, the dog, and the passenger who would otherwise be seated next to me. Get on the plane and in my window bulk head seat which has been assigned to me along with leaving the seat next to me empty which was arranged at the gate. I am traveling with a cat in a container which I have paid to bring on the plane and immediately after taking my seat I place the cat container in the seat next to me to get "situated." As soon as I am seated I am confronted by a stew who says I will have to change seats to another row; non bulkhead. I think it was the cat container b/c the rules I believe are it has to be placed under the seat in front of you and a bulkhead seat has no seat in front of it so . . . On my travels the other way with the cat six months earlier the container was taken and moved to an appropriate place on the plane to the entertainment of the other passengers. Anyways, I politely inform the stew I cannot move to another row and attempt to explain my particular circumstances which make this so. He interrupts me and starts to berate me, and here comes the funny part, he actually says to me, "we have disabled passengers who have paid for these seats (the two next to me)." Keep in mind I am sitting there with a dog in harness that says "Guide Dogs for the Blind." This guy is a real genius. I just tell him after that to het his supervisor. The sup shows and gives me the same routine stating there is an entire empty row in the rear of the plane (where of course only I would be inconvenienced without a place for MY feet). So instead of moving the passengers across the isle in the bulkhead row to the empty row of seats and allowing the other disabled passengers to take the bulk head across the row from me they instead stuck a nice old woman and her daughter next to me (nobody disabled) and this nice woman took it in stride with grace and dealt with a dog on her feet for four plus hours. The humiliation comes from, if not obvious, having my disability pointed out to all on the plane who hadn't already noticed in a demeaning manner (which would not have occurred but for the disability)thereafter followed up by their non accommodating my request to me indicates indifference to the needs of those similarly situated as I when traveling. Seems like the airline I refer is in need of some modification to their training. I think I may help them out toward that end. James W. Weisberg, Esq. Law Office of J. William Weisberg 299 South Patencio Road #3 Palm Springs, California 92262 V: 916.425.1010 F: 916.374.7667 E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com Admitted in Wisconsin Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil Rights Advocacy for Children with Diabetes This message contains information which may be confidential and privileged. Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from your system. This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client relationship nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William Weisberg expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in accordance with this disclaimer. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of WB Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 1:06 PM To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel Well, exactly how wer you marginalized is what the question is I think. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of James Weisberg Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 2:40 PM To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel being marginalized because of something (my case disability)in front of a plane full of passengers is humiliating. No? James W. Weisberg, Esq. Law Office of J. William Weisberg 299 South Patencio Road #3 Palm Springs, California 92262 V: 916.425.1010 F: 916.374.7667 E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com Admitted in Wisconsin Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil Rights Advocacy for Children with Diabetes This message contains information which may be confidential and privileged. Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from your system. This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client relationship nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William Weisberg expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in accordance with this disclaimer. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 11:19 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel In your opinion, how were you humiliated? Steve Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Weisberg" To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 1:01 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > As the original poster of this thread I wanted to point out the reason for > my inquiry was not related to accommodations but rather being publicly > humiliated by air carrier staff (stew) which of course is a common carrier > and that's a big "no no." Since the humiliation was based upon the > presence > of a guide dog the ADA first came to mind. > > > > Finally, Ben you rock dude!! > > > James W. Weisberg, Esq. > > Law Office of J. William Weisberg > > 299 South Patencio Road #3 > > Palm Springs, California 92262 > > V: 916.425.1010 > > F: 916.374.7667 > > E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com > > Admitted in Wisconsin > > Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil Rights > Advocacy for Children with Diabetes > > This message contains information which may be confidential and > privileged. > Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), > you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information > contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, > please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from your > system. > > This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client > relationship > nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William > Weisberg > expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in > accordance with this disclaimer. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of stiehm.law > Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 12:58 PM > To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org > Cc: blindlaw at nfbnet.org > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > > In addition to the airlines, I have recently become curious as to what if > any, accommodations for the TSA makes with respect to disabled people > going through security and being picked up by somebody at the gate at the > terminal at the other end of the flight. For example, do they permit a > blind person who is traveling alone to be accompanied through security, > down to the airline check-in counter at the gate by a non-ticketed > person. > > At the other end, is a non-ticketed person permitted through security to > go to the gate to meet a blind person flying alone? > > If TSA does not provide for such accommodations do the airlines take it > on themselves to provide this service? > > Has anybody had any experience in this regard? Is the accommodation, if > any, voluntary on the part of the TSA and/or the airlines or is it > governed by regulation? > > Patrick H. Stiehm > Stiehm Law Office > Alexandria, VA 22309 > 703-360-1089 (Voice) > 703-935-8266 (Fax) > > > > Tue, 1 Dec 2009 11:30:37 -0800 "Russell J. Thomas, Jr." > writes: >> Off the top of my head, and without any new research, the only case >> I >> remember is a case challenging the accessibility of airline websites >> with >> respect to attempting to make reservations and ordering tickets on >> line. >> >> I also think that there are regulations on the subject, especially >> dealing >> with how disabled passengers are to be treated (or perhaps on some >> occasions >> mistreated). >> >> I often thought it would be a good idea for the NFB to put together >> a short >> guide book concerning travel, including air travel, based upon >> experiences >> of NFB members, to be used as a reference guide for blind people who >> use air >> travel. Certainly things have changed since 911--some changes for >> the good, >> and others not so good. >> >> >> >> >> Respectfully, >> >> >> >> Russell J. Thomas, Jr. >> >> THOMAS & ASSOCIATES >> >> www.californiaemployersattorneys.com >> >> >> >> Orange County Office >> >> 4121 Westerly Place, Suite 101 >> >> Newport Beach, California 92660 >> >> T: (949) 752-0101 >> >> F: (949) 257-4756 >> >> M: (949) 466-7238 >> >> >> >> Beverly Hills Office >> >> 9107 Wilshire Boulevard, Suite 450 >> >> Beverly Hills, California 90210 >> >> T: (310) 461-3561 >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf Of James Weisberg >> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 10:01 AM >> To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' >> Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel >> >> Hi Folks: >> >> >> >> Anyone on the lists have experience or knowledge regarding the ADA >> and suits >> against air carriers for violations available for quick consult? >> Thanks. >> >> >> >> James W. Weisberg, Esq. >> >> Law Office of J. William Weisberg >> >> 299 South Patencio Road #3 >> >> Palm Springs, California 92262 >> >> V: 916.425.1010 >> >> F: 916.374.7667 >> >> E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com >> >> Admitted in Wisconsin >> >> Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil >> Rights >> Advocacy for Children with Diabetes >> >> This message contains information which may be confidential and >> privileged. >> Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the >> addressee), >> you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any >> information >> contained in this message. If you have received this message in >> error, >> please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from >> your >> system. >> >> This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client >> relationship >> nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William >> Weisberg >> expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information >> in >> accordance with this disclaimer. >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for >> blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rthomas%40rjtla > wfi >> rm.com >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stiehm.law%40ju > no.com >> > > ____________________________________________________________ > Hotel > Hotel pics, info and virtual tours. Click here to book a hotel online. > http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/c?cp=ewJKbyZ61QloDsW_i_oQ_wAAJ1BdRO > y9vkzpR6E_Fj7jZTbnAAYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAATRAAAAAA= > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jimi-law%40dc.rr.c > om > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4652 (20091201) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4652 (20091201) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4653 (20091201) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4655 (20091202) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4655 (20091202) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in sightbb.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.426 / Virus Database: 270.14.90/2540 - Release Date: 12/02/09 07:33:00 _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jimi-law%40dc.rr.c om __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4656 (20091202) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4656 (20091202) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4656 (20091202) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniverse08%40gma il.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jimi-law%40dc.rr.c om __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4656 (20091202) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4656 (20091202) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4656 (20091202) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rthomas%40rjtlawfi rm.com From dennisgclark at sbcglobal.net Thu Dec 3 00:44:23 2009 From: dennisgclark at sbcglobal.net (Dennis Clark) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 16:44:23 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel References: <20091201.125747.428.71023@mailpop05.vgs.untd.com> <93D426D90E0F47678A7E578E71609E06@screnci.local><027601ca7393$4693d280$d3bb7780$@com> <003B92E643764A4EBC61041B985FF563@screnci.local> Message-ID: <000b01ca73b1$c2409b20$6601a8c0@server> Hi James, Which airline was this? Thanks, Dennis ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Weisberg" To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 3:08 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > In retrospect it's actually kind of funny although at the time it wasn't. > I > travel with a Guide Dog. So, as it was discussed in this thread, I made > advance arrangements to be seated in the "bulkhead" seat which affords > more > foot space so the dog can be in a position whereby she is not entirely on > my > feet nor the feet of the person next to me. No problem. When I get to > the > airport to check in I get assistance to the gate since the dog has yet to > learn to read much to my consternation. When I get to the gate I check in > and inform the attendant about the Guide Dog and confirm the placement in > the bulkhead seat. At this time I also inquire if the plane is full, > sometimes it is not, as in this instance. I inform the attendant they may > wish to juggle the passengers around and leave the seat next to me empty > so > they do not have a paying passenger with a dog on their legs for the > entire > trip. Never had a problem when put in these terms. I also inform them > the > window seat is necessary to keep the dog from sticking into the isle. So > a > window, bulkhead seat with and empty seat next to me is ideal for me, the > dog, and the passenger who would otherwise be seated next to me. > > Get on the plane and in my window bulk head seat which has been assigned > to > me along with leaving the seat next to me empty which was arranged at the > gate. I am traveling with a cat in a container which I have paid to bring > on the plane and immediately after taking my seat I place the cat > container > in the seat next to me to get "situated." As soon as I am seated I am > confronted by a stew who says I will have to change seats to another row; > non bulkhead. I think it was the cat container b/c the rules I believe > are > it has to be placed under the seat in front of you and a bulkhead seat has > no seat in front of it so . . . On my travels the other way with the cat > six months earlier the container was taken and moved to an appropriate > place > on the plane to the entertainment of the other passengers. Anyways, I > politely inform the stew I cannot move to another row and attempt to > explain > my particular circumstances which make this so. He interrupts me and > starts > to berate me, and here comes the funny part, he actually says to me, "we > have disabled passengers who have paid for these seats (the two next to > me)." Keep in mind I am sitting there with a dog in harness that says > "Guide Dogs for the Blind." This guy is a real genius. I just tell him > after that to het his supervisor. The sup shows and gives me the same > routine stating there is an entire empty row in the rear of the plane > (where > of course only I would be inconvenienced without a place for MY feet). So > instead of moving the passengers across the isle in the bulkhead row to > the > empty row of seats and allowing the other disabled passengers to take the > bulk head across the row from me they instead stuck a nice old woman and > her > daughter next to me (nobody disabled) and this nice woman took it in > stride > with grace and dealt with a dog on her feet for four plus hours. > > The humiliation comes from, if not obvious, having my disability pointed > out > to all on the plane who hadn't already noticed in a demeaning manner > (which > would not have occurred but for the disability)thereafter followed up by > their non accommodating my request to me indicates indifference to the > needs > of those similarly situated as I when traveling. Seems like the airline I > refer is in need of some modification to their training. I think I may > help > them out toward that end. > > James W. Weisberg, Esq. > > Law Office of J. William Weisberg > > 299 South Patencio Road #3 > > Palm Springs, California 92262 > > V: 916.425.1010 > > F: 916.374.7667 > > E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com > > Admitted in Wisconsin > > Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil Rights > Advocacy for Children with Diabetes > > This message contains information which may be confidential and > privileged. > Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), > you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information > contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, > please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from your > system. > > This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client > relationship > nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William > Weisberg > expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in > accordance with this disclaimer. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of WB > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 1:06 PM > To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > > Well, exactly how wer you marginalized is what the question is I think. > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of James Weisberg > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 2:40 PM > To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > > being marginalized because of something (my case disability)in front of a > plane full of passengers is humiliating. No? > > James W. Weisberg, Esq. > > Law Office of J. William Weisberg > > 299 South Patencio Road #3 > > Palm Springs, California 92262 > > V: 916.425.1010 > > F: 916.374.7667 > > E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com > > Admitted in Wisconsin > > Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil Rights > Advocacy for Children with Diabetes > > This message contains information which may be confidential and > privileged. > Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), > you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information > contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, > please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from your > system. > > This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client > relationship > nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William > Weisberg > expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in > accordance with this disclaimer. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 11:19 AM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > > In your opinion, how were you humiliated? > Steve > Steve > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "James Weisberg" > To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 1:01 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > > >> As the original poster of this thread I wanted to point out the reason >> for >> my inquiry was not related to accommodations but rather being publicly >> humiliated by air carrier staff (stew) which of course is a common >> carrier >> and that's a big "no no." Since the humiliation was based upon the >> presence >> of a guide dog the ADA first came to mind. >> >> >> >> Finally, Ben you rock dude!! >> >> >> James W. Weisberg, Esq. >> >> Law Office of J. William Weisberg >> >> 299 South Patencio Road #3 >> >> Palm Springs, California 92262 >> >> V: 916.425.1010 >> >> F: 916.374.7667 >> >> E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com >> >> Admitted in Wisconsin >> >> Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil Rights >> Advocacy for Children with Diabetes >> >> This message contains information which may be confidential and >> privileged. >> Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the >> addressee), >> you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any >> information >> contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, >> please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from your >> system. >> >> This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client >> relationship >> nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William >> Weisberg >> expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in >> accordance with this disclaimer. >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf Of stiehm.law >> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 12:58 PM >> To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> Cc: blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel >> >> In addition to the airlines, I have recently become curious as to what if >> any, accommodations for the TSA makes with respect to disabled people >> going through security and being picked up by somebody at the gate at the >> terminal at the other end of the flight. For example, do they permit a >> blind person who is traveling alone to be accompanied through security, >> down to the airline check-in counter at the gate by a non-ticketed >> person. >> >> At the other end, is a non-ticketed person permitted through security to >> go to the gate to meet a blind person flying alone? >> >> If TSA does not provide for such accommodations do the airlines take it >> on themselves to provide this service? >> >> Has anybody had any experience in this regard? Is the accommodation, if >> any, voluntary on the part of the TSA and/or the airlines or is it >> governed by regulation? >> >> Patrick H. Stiehm >> Stiehm Law Office >> Alexandria, VA 22309 >> 703-360-1089 (Voice) >> 703-935-8266 (Fax) >> >> >> >> Tue, 1 Dec 2009 11:30:37 -0800 "Russell J. Thomas, Jr." >> writes: >>> Off the top of my head, and without any new research, the only case >>> I >>> remember is a case challenging the accessibility of airline websites >>> with >>> respect to attempting to make reservations and ordering tickets on >>> line. >>> >>> I also think that there are regulations on the subject, especially >>> dealing >>> with how disabled passengers are to be treated (or perhaps on some >>> occasions >>> mistreated). >>> >>> I often thought it would be a good idea for the NFB to put together >>> a short >>> guide book concerning travel, including air travel, based upon >>> experiences >>> of NFB members, to be used as a reference guide for blind people who >>> use air >>> travel. Certainly things have changed since 911--some changes for >>> the good, >>> and others not so good. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Respectfully, >>> >>> >>> >>> Russell J. Thomas, Jr. >>> >>> THOMAS & ASSOCIATES >>> >>> www.californiaemployersattorneys.com >>> >>> >>> >>> Orange County Office >>> >>> 4121 Westerly Place, Suite 101 >>> >>> Newport Beach, California 92660 >>> >>> T: (949) 752-0101 >>> >>> F: (949) 257-4756 >>> >>> M: (949) 466-7238 >>> >>> >>> >>> Beverly Hills Office >>> >>> 9107 Wilshire Boulevard, Suite 450 >>> >>> Beverly Hills, California 90210 >>> >>> T: (310) 461-3561 >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>> Behalf Of James Weisberg >>> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 10:01 AM >>> To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' >>> Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel >>> >>> Hi Folks: >>> >>> >>> >>> Anyone on the lists have experience or knowledge regarding the ADA >>> and suits >>> against air carriers for violations available for quick consult? >>> Thanks. >>> >>> >>> >>> James W. Weisberg, Esq. >>> >>> Law Office of J. William Weisberg >>> >>> 299 South Patencio Road #3 >>> >>> Palm Springs, California 92262 >>> >>> V: 916.425.1010 >>> >>> F: 916.374.7667 >>> >>> E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com >>> >>> Admitted in Wisconsin >>> >>> Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil >>> Rights >>> Advocacy for Children with Diabetes >>> >>> This message contains information which may be confidential and >>> privileged. >>> Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the >>> addressee), >>> you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any >>> information >>> contained in this message. If you have received this message in >>> error, >>> please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from >>> your >>> system. >>> >>> This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client >>> relationship >>> nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William >>> Weisberg >>> expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information >>> in >>> accordance with this disclaimer. >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> blindlaw: >>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rthomas%40rjtla >> wfi >>> rm.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for blindlaw: >>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stiehm.law%40ju >> no.com >>> >> >> ____________________________________________________________ >> Hotel >> Hotel pics, info and virtual tours. Click here to book a hotel online. >> > http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/c?cp=ewJKbyZ61QloDsW_i_oQ_wAAJ1BdRO >> y9vkzpR6E_Fj7jZTbnAAYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAATRAAAAAA= >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jimi-law%40dc.rr.c >> om >> >> __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus >> signature >> database 4652 (20091201) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus >> signature >> database 4652 (20091201) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus >> signature >> database 4653 (20091201) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus >> signature >> database 4655 (20091202) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus >> signature >> database 4655 (20091202) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in > sightbb.com > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.426 / Virus Database: 270.14.90/2540 - Release Date: 12/02/09 > 07:33:00 > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jimi-law%40dc.rr.c > om > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4656 (20091202) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4656 (20091202) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4656 (20091202) __________ > >The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniverse08%40gma > il.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jimi-law%40dc.rr.c > om > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4656 (20091202) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4656 (20091202) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4656 (20091202) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dennisgclark%40sbcglobal.net From pattichang at att.net Thu Dec 3 00:59:50 2009 From: pattichang at att.net (Patti Gregory-Chang) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 18:59:50 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel References: Message-ID: <663494BE8082450E98549523FC343713@D3J75Z91> I can top that one, when my daughter was weeks old she was snatched out of my hands by airline personnel. I still can't believe it. P.S. National Federation of the Blind of Illinois is now on twitter at www.twitter.com/nfbi. We also have a facebook page. Just search for our full name. Patti Gregory-Chang President, National Federation of the Blind of Illinois pattichang at att.net www.nfbofillinois.org ----- Original Message ----- From: "Reyazuddin, Yasmin" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 7:22 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > > Hi Patrick > I just returned back from India, and I can give you the international > view on this matter. > The airlines are supposed to know about your travel plans. I got > assistance getting to the security points and beyond. At the same time > in London I was told something interesting. When we purchase the ticket > we can select our meals and the seat in advance. We need to inform about > needing assistance. Under the disability we could say (wheelchair R,) > meaning we just need assistance with getting from point to point. If we > choose (wheelchair S) it will mean that we need a wheelchair and we will > need assistance if aircraft is reached by climbing steps. > TSA is not very helpful in working with blind passengers. One security > guard snatched my passport and ticket out of my hand without asking or > informing me about it. Of course, I screamed and then she asked by looks > from a fellow passenger. I gave her some harsh words and she left. > Yasmin Reyazuddin > Information & Referral unit > Department of Health & human services > 401 Hungerford Drive (1st floor) > Rockville MD 20850 > Phone 240-777-1245 (info line) > 240-777-1556 (personal line) > Fax: 240-777-4636 > TTY: 240-777-1295 > > Office hours 8:30 am to 5:00 pm > > Languages English, Hindi, Urdu > > This message may contain protected health information or other > information that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the > intended recipient, please contact the sender by return mail and destroy > any copies of this material. > > Thank you. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] > On Behalf Of stiehm.law > Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 3:58 PM > To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org > Cc: blindlaw at nfbnet.org > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > > In addition to the airlines, I have recently become curious as to what > if > any, accommodations for the TSA makes with respect to disabled people > going through security and being picked up by somebody at the gate at > the > terminal at the other end of the flight. For example, do they permit a > blind person who is traveling alone to be accompanied through security, > down to the airline check-in counter at the gate by a non-ticketed > person. > > At the other end, is a non-ticketed person permitted through security to > go to the gate to meet a blind person flying alone? > > If TSA does not provide for such accommodations do the airlines take it > on themselves to provide this service? > > Has anybody had any experience in this regard? Is the accommodation, if > any, voluntary on the part of the TSA and/or the airlines or is it > governed by regulation? > > Patrick H. Stiehm > Stiehm Law Office > Alexandria, VA 22309 > 703-360-1089 (Voice) > 703-935-8266 (Fax) > > > > Tue, 1 Dec 2009 11:30:37 -0800 "Russell J. Thomas, Jr." > writes: >> Off the top of my head, and without any new research, the only case >> I >> remember is a case challenging the accessibility of airline websites >> with >> respect to attempting to make reservations and ordering tickets on >> line. >> >> I also think that there are regulations on the subject, especially >> dealing >> with how disabled passengers are to be treated (or perhaps on some >> occasions >> mistreated). >> >> I often thought it would be a good idea for the NFB to put together >> a short >> guide book concerning travel, including air travel, based upon >> experiences >> of NFB members, to be used as a reference guide for blind people who >> use air >> travel. Certainly things have changed since 911--some changes for >> the good, >> and others not so good. >> >> >> >> >> Respectfully, >> >> >> >> Russell J. Thomas, Jr. >> >> THOMAS & ASSOCIATES >> >> www.californiaemployersattorneys.com >> >> >> >> Orange County Office >> >> 4121 Westerly Place, Suite 101 >> >> Newport Beach, California 92660 >> >> T: (949) 752-0101 >> >> F: (949) 257-4756 >> >> M: (949) 466-7238 >> >> >> >> Beverly Hills Office >> >> 9107 Wilshire Boulevard, Suite 450 >> >> Beverly Hills, California 90210 >> >> T: (310) 461-3561 >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf Of James Weisberg >> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 10:01 AM >> To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' >> Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel >> >> Hi Folks: >> >> >> >> Anyone on the lists have experience or knowledge regarding the ADA >> and suits >> against air carriers for violations available for quick consult? >> Thanks. >> >> >> >> James W. Weisberg, Esq. >> >> Law Office of J. William Weisberg >> >> 299 South Patencio Road #3 >> >> Palm Springs, California 92262 >> >> V: 916.425.1010 >> >> F: 916.374.7667 >> >> E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com >> >> Admitted in Wisconsin >> >> Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil >> Rights >> Advocacy for Children with Diabetes >> >> This message contains information which may be confidential and >> privileged. >> Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the >> addressee), >> you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any >> information >> contained in this message. If you have received this message in >> error, >> please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from >> your >> system. >> >> This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client >> relationship >> nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William >> Weisberg >> expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information >> in >> accordance with this disclaimer. >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for >> blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rthomas%40rjtl > a > wfi >> rm.com >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stiehm.law%40j > u > no.com >> > > ____________________________________________________________ > Hotel > Hotel pics, info and virtual tours. Click here to book a hotel online. > http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/c?cp=ewJKbyZ61QloDsW_i_oQ_wAAJ1 > BdROy9vkzpR6E_Fj7jZTbnAAYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAATRAAAAA > A= > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/yasmin.reyazud > din%40montgomerycountymd.gov > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pattichang%40att.net From jimi-law at dc.rr.com Thu Dec 3 01:28:18 2009 From: jimi-law at dc.rr.com (James Weisberg) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 17:28:18 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel In-Reply-To: <02cc01ca73a5$2c438120$84ca8360$@com> References: <20091201.125747.428.71023@mailpop05.vgs.untd.com> <93D426D90E0F47678A7E578E71609E06@screnci.local> <027601ca7393$4693d280$d3bb7780$@com><003B92E643764A4EBC61041B985FF563@screnci.local> <02cc01ca73a5$2c438120$84ca8360$@com> Message-ID: <939B98E432004FC4BA69464FA4D211B1@screnci.local> This incident was NOTHING. With my first dog I was asked after taking my seat if my dog had a "license" to be on the plane. Of course I knew this was absurd. The stew in this particular case was Asian and it was apparent to me (still had some vision at the time) she had some cultural issues going on. Anyways, same situation; I ask to speak with the supervisor who comes over and backs up his staff. I tell him to blow off (keep in mind I am litigating in civil court all the time). A short while passes when several people obviously from the airline ask me to exit my seat (which by the way was a bulkhead seat, i.e., in front of all the passengers)and come with them. They removed me from the plane and took me with my Guide Dog out into the breezeway where the airline biggie took out a manual and found a regulation to show me indicating if I was asked for identification the service animal was indeed a service animal I was required to produce it. Unfortunately, once again the staff was untrained and after producing the "card" issued me by Guide Dogs was let back on the plane to my seat. Asked for a license but only really needed to show proof of the fact the dog was a service animal. Pathetic. Didn't sue then but vowed I wouldn't be pushed around in the future. James W. Weisberg, Esq. Law Office of J. William Weisberg 299 South Patencio Road #3 Palm Springs, California 92262 V: 916.425.1010 F: 916.374.7667 E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com Admitted in Wisconsin Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil Rights Advocacy for Children with Diabetes This message contains information which may be confidential and privileged. Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from your system. This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client relationship nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William Weisberg expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in accordance with this disclaimer. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of WB Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 3:14 PM To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel After reading this detail, the earlier e-mails you sent now make sense to me. That's very sad that those attendants were not in line with whatever training they received. I'm sure they had to have had some and from what you say, it doesn't seem like they put any of it into practice. Has the airline powers that be turned their noses up to your requests for information on their training program or requests for some type of being made whole? I'm curious as I've never experienced anything to the level of which you speak. Thanks for sharing. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of James Weisberg Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 5:09 PM To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel In retrospect it's actually kind of funny although at the time it wasn't. I travel with a Guide Dog. So, as it was discussed in this thread, I made advance arrangements to be seated in the "bulkhead" seat which affords more foot space so the dog can be in a position whereby she is not entirely on my feet nor the feet of the person next to me. No problem. When I get to the airport to check in I get assistance to the gate since the dog has yet to learn to read much to my consternation. When I get to the gate I check in and inform the attendant about the Guide Dog and confirm the placement in the bulkhead seat. At this time I also inquire if the plane is full, sometimes it is not, as in this instance. I inform the attendant they may wish to juggle the passengers around and leave the seat next to me empty so they do not have a paying passenger with a dog on their legs for the entire trip. Never had a problem when put in these terms. I also inform them the window seat is necessary to keep the dog from sticking into the isle. So a window, bulkhead seat with and empty seat next to me is ideal for me, the dog, and the passenger who would otherwise be seated next to me. Get on the plane and in my window bulk head seat which has been assigned to me along with leaving the seat next to me empty which was arranged at the gate. I am traveling with a cat in a container which I have paid to bring on the plane and immediately after taking my seat I place the cat container in the seat next to me to get "situated." As soon as I am seated I am confronted by a stew who says I will have to change seats to another row; non bulkhead. I think it was the cat container b/c the rules I believe are it has to be placed under the seat in front of you and a bulkhead seat has no seat in front of it so . . . On my travels the other way with the cat six months earlier the container was taken and moved to an appropriate place on the plane to the entertainment of the other passengers. Anyways, I politely inform the stew I cannot move to another row and attempt to explain my particular circumstances which make this so. He interrupts me and starts to berate me, and here comes the funny part, he actually says to me, "we have disabled passengers who have paid for these seats (the two next to me)." Keep in mind I am sitting there with a dog in harness that says "Guide Dogs for the Blind." This guy is a real genius. I just tell him after that to het his supervisor. The sup shows and gives me the same routine stating there is an entire empty row in the rear of the plane (where of course only I would be inconvenienced without a place for MY feet). So instead of moving the passengers across the isle in the bulkhead row to the empty row of seats and allowing the other disabled passengers to take the bulk head across the row from me they instead stuck a nice old woman and her daughter next to me (nobody disabled) and this nice woman took it in stride with grace and dealt with a dog on her feet for four plus hours. The humiliation comes from, if not obvious, having my disability pointed out to all on the plane who hadn't already noticed in a demeaning manner (which would not have occurred but for the disability)thereafter followed up by their non accommodating my request to me indicates indifference to the needs of those similarly situated as I when traveling. Seems like the airline I refer is in need of some modification to their training. I think I may help them out toward that end. James W. Weisberg, Esq. Law Office of J. William Weisberg 299 South Patencio Road #3 Palm Springs, California 92262 V: 916.425.1010 F: 916.374.7667 E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com Admitted in Wisconsin Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil Rights Advocacy for Children with Diabetes This message contains information which may be confidential and privileged. Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from your system. This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client relationship nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William Weisberg expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in accordance with this disclaimer. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of WB Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 1:06 PM To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel Well, exactly how wer you marginalized is what the question is I think. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of James Weisberg Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 2:40 PM To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel being marginalized because of something (my case disability)in front of a plane full of passengers is humiliating. No? James W. Weisberg, Esq. Law Office of J. William Weisberg 299 South Patencio Road #3 Palm Springs, California 92262 V: 916.425.1010 F: 916.374.7667 E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com Admitted in Wisconsin Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil Rights Advocacy for Children with Diabetes This message contains information which may be confidential and privileged. Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from your system. This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client relationship nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William Weisberg expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in accordance with this disclaimer. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 11:19 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel In your opinion, how were you humiliated? Steve Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Weisberg" To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 1:01 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > As the original poster of this thread I wanted to point out the reason for > my inquiry was not related to accommodations but rather being publicly > humiliated by air carrier staff (stew) which of course is a common carrier > and that's a big "no no." Since the humiliation was based upon the > presence > of a guide dog the ADA first came to mind. > > > > Finally, Ben you rock dude!! > > > James W. Weisberg, Esq. > > Law Office of J. William Weisberg > > 299 South Patencio Road #3 > > Palm Springs, California 92262 > > V: 916.425.1010 > > F: 916.374.7667 > > E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com > > Admitted in Wisconsin > > Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil Rights > Advocacy for Children with Diabetes > > This message contains information which may be confidential and > privileged. > Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), > you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information > contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, > please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from your > system. > > This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client > relationship > nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William > Weisberg > expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in > accordance with this disclaimer. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of stiehm.law > Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 12:58 PM > To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org > Cc: blindlaw at nfbnet.org > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > > In addition to the airlines, I have recently become curious as to what if > any, accommodations for the TSA makes with respect to disabled people > going through security and being picked up by somebody at the gate at the > terminal at the other end of the flight. For example, do they permit a > blind person who is traveling alone to be accompanied through security, > down to the airline check-in counter at the gate by a non-ticketed > person. > > At the other end, is a non-ticketed person permitted through security to > go to the gate to meet a blind person flying alone? > > If TSA does not provide for such accommodations do the airlines take it > on themselves to provide this service? > > Has anybody had any experience in this regard? Is the accommodation, if > any, voluntary on the part of the TSA and/or the airlines or is it > governed by regulation? > > Patrick H. Stiehm > Stiehm Law Office > Alexandria, VA 22309 > 703-360-1089 (Voice) > 703-935-8266 (Fax) > > > > Tue, 1 Dec 2009 11:30:37 -0800 "Russell J. Thomas, Jr." > writes: >> Off the top of my head, and without any new research, the only case >> I >> remember is a case challenging the accessibility of airline websites >> with >> respect to attempting to make reservations and ordering tickets on >> line. >> >> I also think that there are regulations on the subject, especially >> dealing >> with how disabled passengers are to be treated (or perhaps on some >> occasions >> mistreated). >> >> I often thought it would be a good idea for the NFB to put together >> a short >> guide book concerning travel, including air travel, based upon >> experiences >> of NFB members, to be used as a reference guide for blind people who >> use air >> travel. Certainly things have changed since 911--some changes for >> the good, >> and others not so good. >> >> >> >> >> Respectfully, >> >> >> >> Russell J. Thomas, Jr. >> >> THOMAS & ASSOCIATES >> >> www.californiaemployersattorneys.com >> >> >> >> Orange County Office >> >> 4121 Westerly Place, Suite 101 >> >> Newport Beach, California 92660 >> >> T: (949) 752-0101 >> >> F: (949) 257-4756 >> >> M: (949) 466-7238 >> >> >> >> Beverly Hills Office >> >> 9107 Wilshire Boulevard, Suite 450 >> >> Beverly Hills, California 90210 >> >> T: (310) 461-3561 >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf Of James Weisberg >> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 10:01 AM >> To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' >> Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel >> >> Hi Folks: >> >> >> >> Anyone on the lists have experience or knowledge regarding the ADA >> and suits >> against air carriers for violations available for quick consult? >> Thanks. >> >> >> >> James W. Weisberg, Esq. >> >> Law Office of J. William Weisberg >> >> 299 South Patencio Road #3 >> >> Palm Springs, California 92262 >> >> V: 916.425.1010 >> >> F: 916.374.7667 >> >> E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com >> >> Admitted in Wisconsin >> >> Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil >> Rights >> Advocacy for Children with Diabetes >> >> This message contains information which may be confidential and >> privileged. >> Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the >> addressee), >> you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any >> information >> contained in this message. If you have received this message in >> error, >> please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from >> your >> system. >> >> This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client >> relationship >> nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William >> Weisberg >> expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information >> in >> accordance with this disclaimer. >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for >> blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rthomas%40rjtla > wfi >> rm.com >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stiehm.law%40ju > no.com >> > > ____________________________________________________________ > Hotel > Hotel pics, info and virtual tours. Click here to book a hotel online. > http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/c?cp=ewJKbyZ61QloDsW_i_oQ_wAAJ1BdRO > y9vkzpR6E_Fj7jZTbnAAYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAATRAAAAAA= > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jimi-law%40dc.rr.c > om > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4652 (20091201) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4652 (20091201) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4653 (20091201) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4655 (20091202) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4655 (20091202) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in sightbb.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.426 / Virus Database: 270.14.90/2540 - Release Date: 12/02/09 07:33:00 _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jimi-law%40dc.rr.c om __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4656 (20091202) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4656 (20091202) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4656 (20091202) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniverse08%40gma il.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jimi-law%40dc.rr.c om __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4656 (20091202) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4656 (20091202) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4656 (20091202) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniverse08%40gma il.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jimi-law%40dc.rr.c om __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4656 (20091202) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4656 (20091202) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4656 (20091202) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com From jimi-law at dc.rr.com Thu Dec 3 01:34:44 2009 From: jimi-law at dc.rr.com (James Weisberg) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 17:34:44 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel In-Reply-To: <5C3F1B998E56410090FAE5D9E278050A@StevePC> References: <20091201.125747.428.71023@mailpop05.vgs.untd.com><93D426D90E0F47678A7E578E71609E06@screnci.local><027601ca7393$4693d280$d3bb7780$@com><003B92E643764A4EBC61041B985FF563@screnci.local> <5C3F1B998E56410090FAE5D9E278050A@StevePC> Message-ID: <9A3F144C9DC6403A80C345AD22A8F619@screnci.local> Assumptions. Who said anything about money damages? I referenced their need to adequately train their staff I think. Who is going to advocate for people like me? If I can do it for myself should I not? It takes thick skin to fight the good fight and not go along to get along. James W. Weisberg, Esq. Law Office of J. William Weisberg 299 South Patencio Road #3 Palm Springs, California 92262 V: 916.425.1010 F: 916.374.7667 E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com Admitted in Wisconsin Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil Rights Advocacy for Children with Diabetes This message contains information which may be confidential and privileged. Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from your system. This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client relationship nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William Weisberg expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in accordance with this disclaimer. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 4:19 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel I think you just get some thicker skin and go on with your life. A bad break but not worth monetary damages. Steve----- Original Message ----- From: "James Weisberg" To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 6:08 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > In retrospect it's actually kind of funny although at the time it wasn't. > I > travel with a Guide Dog. So, as it was discussed in this thread, I made > advance arrangements to be seated in the "bulkhead" seat which affords > more > foot space so the dog can be in a position whereby she is not entirely on > my > feet nor the feet of the person next to me. No problem. When I get to > the > airport to check in I get assistance to the gate since the dog has yet to > learn to read much to my consternation. When I get to the gate I check in > and inform the attendant about the Guide Dog and confirm the placement in > the bulkhead seat. At this time I also inquire if the plane is full, > sometimes it is not, as in this instance. I inform the attendant they may > wish to juggle the passengers around and leave the seat next to me empty > so > they do not have a paying passenger with a dog on their legs for the > entire > trip. Never had a problem when put in these terms. I also inform them > the > window seat is necessary to keep the dog from sticking into the isle. So > a > window, bulkhead seat with and empty seat next to me is ideal for me, the > dog, and the passenger who would otherwise be seated next to me. > > Get on the plane and in my window bulk head seat which has been assigned > to > me along with leaving the seat next to me empty which was arranged at the > gate. I am traveling with a cat in a container which I have paid to bring > on the plane and immediately after taking my seat I place the cat > container > in the seat next to me to get "situated." As soon as I am seated I am > confronted by a stew who says I will have to change seats to another row; > non bulkhead. I think it was the cat container b/c the rules I believe > are > it has to be placed under the seat in front of you and a bulkhead seat has > no seat in front of it so . . . On my travels the other way with the cat > six months earlier the container was taken and moved to an appropriate > place > on the plane to the entertainment of the other passengers. Anyways, I > politely inform the stew I cannot move to another row and attempt to > explain > my particular circumstances which make this so. He interrupts me and > starts > to berate me, and here comes the funny part, he actually says to me, "we > have disabled passengers who have paid for these seats (the two next to > me)." Keep in mind I am sitting there with a dog in harness that says > "Guide Dogs for the Blind." This guy is a real genius. I just tell him > after that to het his supervisor. The sup shows and gives me the same > routine stating there is an entire empty row in the rear of the plane > (where > of course only I would be inconvenienced without a place for MY feet). So > instead of moving the passengers across the isle in the bulkhead row to > the > empty row of seats and allowing the other disabled passengers to take the > bulk head across the row from me they instead stuck a nice old woman and > her > daughter next to me (nobody disabled) and this nice woman took it in > stride > with grace and dealt with a dog on her feet for four plus hours. > > The humiliation comes from, if not obvious, having my disability pointed > out > to all on the plane who hadn't already noticed in a demeaning manner > (which > would not have occurred but for the disability)thereafter followed up by > their non accommodating my request to me indicates indifference to the > needs > of those similarly situated as I when traveling. Seems like the airline I > refer is in need of some modification to their training. I think I may > help > them out toward that end. > > James W. Weisberg, Esq. > > Law Office of J. William Weisberg > > 299 South Patencio Road #3 > > Palm Springs, California 92262 > > V: 916.425.1010 > > F: 916.374.7667 > > E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com > > Admitted in Wisconsin > > Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil Rights > Advocacy for Children with Diabetes > > This message contains information which may be confidential and > privileged. > Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), > you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information > contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, > please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from your > system. > > This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client > relationship > nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William > Weisberg > expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in > accordance with this disclaimer. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of WB > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 1:06 PM > To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > > Well, exactly how wer you marginalized is what the question is I think. > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of James Weisberg > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 2:40 PM > To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > > being marginalized because of something (my case disability)in front of a > plane full of passengers is humiliating. No? > > James W. Weisberg, Esq. > > Law Office of J. William Weisberg > > 299 South Patencio Road #3 > > Palm Springs, California 92262 > > V: 916.425.1010 > > F: 916.374.7667 > > E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com > > Admitted in Wisconsin > > Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil Rights > Advocacy for Children with Diabetes > > This message contains information which may be confidential and > privileged. > Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), > you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information > contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, > please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from your > system. > > This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client > relationship > nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William > Weisberg > expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in > accordance with this disclaimer. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 11:19 AM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > > In your opinion, how were you humiliated? > Steve > Steve > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "James Weisberg" > To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 1:01 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > > >> As the original poster of this thread I wanted to point out the reason >> for >> my inquiry was not related to accommodations but rather being publicly >> humiliated by air carrier staff (stew) which of course is a common >> carrier >> and that's a big "no no." Since the humiliation was based upon the >> presence >> of a guide dog the ADA first came to mind. >> >> >> >> Finally, Ben you rock dude!! >> >> >> James W. Weisberg, Esq. >> >> Law Office of J. William Weisberg >> >> 299 South Patencio Road #3 >> >> Palm Springs, California 92262 >> >> V: 916.425.1010 >> >> F: 916.374.7667 >> >> E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com >> >> Admitted in Wisconsin >> >> Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil Rights >> Advocacy for Children with Diabetes >> >> This message contains information which may be confidential and >> privileged. >> Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the >> addressee), >> you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any >> information >> contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, >> please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from your >> system. >> >> This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client >> relationship >> nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William >> Weisberg >> expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in >> accordance with this disclaimer. >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf Of stiehm.law >> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 12:58 PM >> To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> Cc: blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel >> >> In addition to the airlines, I have recently become curious as to what if >> any, accommodations for the TSA makes with respect to disabled people >> going through security and being picked up by somebody at the gate at the >> terminal at the other end of the flight. For example, do they permit a >> blind person who is traveling alone to be accompanied through security, >> down to the airline check-in counter at the gate by a non-ticketed >> person. >> >> At the other end, is a non-ticketed person permitted through security to >> go to the gate to meet a blind person flying alone? >> >> If TSA does not provide for such accommodations do the airlines take it >> on themselves to provide this service? >> >> Has anybody had any experience in this regard? Is the accommodation, if >> any, voluntary on the part of the TSA and/or the airlines or is it >> governed by regulation? >> >> Patrick H. Stiehm >> Stiehm Law Office >> Alexandria, VA 22309 >> 703-360-1089 (Voice) >> 703-935-8266 (Fax) >> >> >> >> Tue, 1 Dec 2009 11:30:37 -0800 "Russell J. Thomas, Jr." >> writes: >>> Off the top of my head, and without any new research, the only case >>> I >>> remember is a case challenging the accessibility of airline websites >>> with >>> respect to attempting to make reservations and ordering tickets on >>> line. >>> >>> I also think that there are regulations on the subject, especially >>> dealing >>> with how disabled passengers are to be treated (or perhaps on some >>> occasions >>> mistreated). >>> >>> I often thought it would be a good idea for the NFB to put together >>> a short >>> guide book concerning travel, including air travel, based upon >>> experiences >>> of NFB members, to be used as a reference guide for blind people who >>> use air >>> travel. Certainly things have changed since 911--some changes for >>> the good, >>> and others not so good. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Respectfully, >>> >>> >>> >>> Russell J. Thomas, Jr. >>> >>> THOMAS & ASSOCIATES >>> >>> www.californiaemployersattorneys.com >>> >>> >>> >>> Orange County Office >>> >>> 4121 Westerly Place, Suite 101 >>> >>> Newport Beach, California 92660 >>> >>> T: (949) 752-0101 >>> >>> F: (949) 257-4756 >>> >>> M: (949) 466-7238 >>> >>> >>> >>> Beverly Hills Office >>> >>> 9107 Wilshire Boulevard, Suite 450 >>> >>> Beverly Hills, California 90210 >>> >>> T: (310) 461-3561 >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>> Behalf Of James Weisberg >>> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 10:01 AM >>> To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' >>> Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel >>> >>> Hi Folks: >>> >>> >>> >>> Anyone on the lists have experience or knowledge regarding the ADA >>> and suits >>> against air carriers for violations available for quick consult? >>> Thanks. >>> >>> >>> >>> James W. Weisberg, Esq. >>> >>> Law Office of J. William Weisberg >>> >>> 299 South Patencio Road #3 >>> >>> Palm Springs, California 92262 >>> >>> V: 916.425.1010 >>> >>> F: 916.374.7667 >>> >>> E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com >>> >>> Admitted in Wisconsin >>> >>> Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil >>> Rights >>> Advocacy for Children with Diabetes >>> >>> This message contains information which may be confidential and >>> privileged. >>> Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the >>> addressee), >>> you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any >>> information >>> contained in this message. If you have received this message in >>> error, >>> please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from >>> your >>> system. >>> >>> This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client >>> relationship >>> nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William >>> Weisberg >>> expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information >>> in >>> accordance with this disclaimer. >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> blindlaw: >>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rthomas%40rjtla >> wfi >>> rm.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for blindlaw: >>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stiehm.law%40ju >> no.com >>> >> >> ____________________________________________________________ >> Hotel >> Hotel pics, info and virtual tours. Click here to book a hotel online. >> > http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/c?cp=ewJKbyZ61QloDsW_i_oQ_wAAJ1BdRO >> y9vkzpR6E_Fj7jZTbnAAYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAATRAAAAAA= >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jimi-law%40dc.rr.c >> om >> >> __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus >> signature >> database 4652 (20091201) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus >> signature >> database 4652 (20091201) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus >> signature >> database 4653 (20091201) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus >> signature >> database 4655 (20091202) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus >> signature >> database 4655 (20091202) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in > sightbb.com > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.426 / Virus Database: 270.14.90/2540 - Release Date: 12/02/09 > 07:33:00 > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jimi-law%40dc.rr.c > om > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4656 (20091202) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4656 (20091202) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4656 (20091202) __________ > >The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniverse08%40gma > il.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jimi-law%40dc.rr.c > om > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4656 (20091202) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4656 (20091202) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4656 (20091202) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in sightbb.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.426 / Virus Database: 270.14.91/2541 - Release Date: 12/02/09 19:43:00 _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jimi-law%40dc.rr.c om __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4656 (20091202) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4656 (20091202) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4656 (20091202) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com From jimi-law at dc.rr.com Thu Dec 3 01:35:31 2009 From: jimi-law at dc.rr.com (James Weisberg) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 17:35:31 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel In-Reply-To: References: <20091201.125747.428.71023@mailpop05.vgs.untd.com> <93D426D90E0F47678A7E578E71609E06@screnci.local><027601ca7393$4693d280$d3bb7780$@com><003B92E643764A4EBC61041B985FF563@screnci.local> Message-ID: Agreed! James W. Weisberg, Esq. Law Office of J. William Weisberg 299 South Patencio Road #3 Palm Springs, California 92262 V: 916.425.1010 F: 916.374.7667 E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com Admitted in Wisconsin Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil Rights Advocacy for Children with Diabetes This message contains information which may be confidential and privileged. Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from your system. This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client relationship nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William Weisberg expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in accordance with this disclaimer. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Russell J. Thomas, Jr. Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 4:25 PM To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel If you travel enough you will encounter your share of idiots. Most of the time, airline and airport personnel try to be helpful--sometimes too helpful; and then there is the idiot. Respectfully, Russell J. Thomas, Jr. THOMAS & ASSOCIATES www.californiaemployersattorneys.com Orange County Office 4121 Westerly Place, Suite 101 Newport Beach, California 92660 T: (949) 752-0101 F: (949) 257-4756 M: (949) 466-7238 Beverly Hills Office 9107 Wilshire Boulevard, Suite 450 Beverly Hills, California 90210 T: (310) 461-3561 -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of James Weisberg Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 3:09 PM To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel In retrospect it's actually kind of funny although at the time it wasn't. I travel with a Guide Dog. So, as it was discussed in this thread, I made advance arrangements to be seated in the "bulkhead" seat which affords more foot space so the dog can be in a position whereby she is not entirely on my feet nor the feet of the person next to me. No problem. When I get to the airport to check in I get assistance to the gate since the dog has yet to learn to read much to my consternation. When I get to the gate I check in and inform the attendant about the Guide Dog and confirm the placement in the bulkhead seat. At this time I also inquire if the plane is full, sometimes it is not, as in this instance. I inform the attendant they may wish to juggle the passengers around and leave the seat next to me empty so they do not have a paying passenger with a dog on their legs for the entire trip. Never had a problem when put in these terms. I also inform them the window seat is necessary to keep the dog from sticking into the isle. So a window, bulkhead seat with and empty seat next to me is ideal for me, the dog, and the passenger who would otherwise be seated next to me. Get on the plane and in my window bulk head seat which has been assigned to me along with leaving the seat next to me empty which was arranged at the gate. I am traveling with a cat in a container which I have paid to bring on the plane and immediately after taking my seat I place the cat container in the seat next to me to get "situated." As soon as I am seated I am confronted by a stew who says I will have to change seats to another row; non bulkhead. I think it was the cat container b/c the rules I believe are it has to be placed under the seat in front of you and a bulkhead seat has no seat in front of it so . . . On my travels the other way with the cat six months earlier the container was taken and moved to an appropriate place on the plane to the entertainment of the other passengers. Anyways, I politely inform the stew I cannot move to another row and attempt to explain my particular circumstances which make this so. He interrupts me and starts to berate me, and here comes the funny part, he actually says to me, "we have disabled passengers who have paid for these seats (the two next to me)." Keep in mind I am sitting there with a dog in harness that says "Guide Dogs for the Blind." This guy is a real genius. I just tell him after that to het his supervisor. The sup shows and gives me the same routine stating there is an entire empty row in the rear of the plane (where of course only I would be inconvenienced without a place for MY feet). So instead of moving the passengers across the isle in the bulkhead row to the empty row of seats and allowing the other disabled passengers to take the bulk head across the row from me they instead stuck a nice old woman and her daughter next to me (nobody disabled) and this nice woman took it in stride with grace and dealt with a dog on her feet for four plus hours. The humiliation comes from, if not obvious, having my disability pointed out to all on the plane who hadn't already noticed in a demeaning manner (which would not have occurred but for the disability)thereafter followed up by their non accommodating my request to me indicates indifference to the needs of those similarly situated as I when traveling. Seems like the airline I refer is in need of some modification to their training. I think I may help them out toward that end. James W. Weisberg, Esq. Law Office of J. William Weisberg 299 South Patencio Road #3 Palm Springs, California 92262 V: 916.425.1010 F: 916.374.7667 E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com Admitted in Wisconsin Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil Rights Advocacy for Children with Diabetes This message contains information which may be confidential and privileged. Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from your system. This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client relationship nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William Weisberg expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in accordance with this disclaimer. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of WB Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 1:06 PM To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel Well, exactly how wer you marginalized is what the question is I think. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of James Weisberg Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 2:40 PM To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel being marginalized because of something (my case disability)in front of a plane full of passengers is humiliating. No? James W. Weisberg, Esq. Law Office of J. William Weisberg 299 South Patencio Road #3 Palm Springs, California 92262 V: 916.425.1010 F: 916.374.7667 E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com Admitted in Wisconsin Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil Rights Advocacy for Children with Diabetes This message contains information which may be confidential and privileged. Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from your system. This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client relationship nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William Weisberg expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in accordance with this disclaimer. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 11:19 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel In your opinion, how were you humiliated? Steve Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Weisberg" To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 1:01 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > As the original poster of this thread I wanted to point out the reason for > my inquiry was not related to accommodations but rather being publicly > humiliated by air carrier staff (stew) which of course is a common carrier > and that's a big "no no." Since the humiliation was based upon the > presence > of a guide dog the ADA first came to mind. > > > > Finally, Ben you rock dude!! > > > James W. Weisberg, Esq. > > Law Office of J. William Weisberg > > 299 South Patencio Road #3 > > Palm Springs, California 92262 > > V: 916.425.1010 > > F: 916.374.7667 > > E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com > > Admitted in Wisconsin > > Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil Rights > Advocacy for Children with Diabetes > > This message contains information which may be confidential and > privileged. > Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), > you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information > contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, > please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from your > system. > > This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client > relationship > nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William > Weisberg > expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in > accordance with this disclaimer. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of stiehm.law > Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 12:58 PM > To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org > Cc: blindlaw at nfbnet.org > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > > In addition to the airlines, I have recently become curious as to what if > any, accommodations for the TSA makes with respect to disabled people > going through security and being picked up by somebody at the gate at the > terminal at the other end of the flight. For example, do they permit a > blind person who is traveling alone to be accompanied through security, > down to the airline check-in counter at the gate by a non-ticketed > person. > > At the other end, is a non-ticketed person permitted through security to > go to the gate to meet a blind person flying alone? > > If TSA does not provide for such accommodations do the airlines take it > on themselves to provide this service? > > Has anybody had any experience in this regard? Is the accommodation, if > any, voluntary on the part of the TSA and/or the airlines or is it > governed by regulation? > > Patrick H. Stiehm > Stiehm Law Office > Alexandria, VA 22309 > 703-360-1089 (Voice) > 703-935-8266 (Fax) > > > > Tue, 1 Dec 2009 11:30:37 -0800 "Russell J. Thomas, Jr." > writes: >> Off the top of my head, and without any new research, the only case >> I >> remember is a case challenging the accessibility of airline websites >> with >> respect to attempting to make reservations and ordering tickets on >> line. >> >> I also think that there are regulations on the subject, especially >> dealing >> with how disabled passengers are to be treated (or perhaps on some >> occasions >> mistreated). >> >> I often thought it would be a good idea for the NFB to put together >> a short >> guide book concerning travel, including air travel, based upon >> experiences >> of NFB members, to be used as a reference guide for blind people who >> use air >> travel. Certainly things have changed since 911--some changes for >> the good, >> and others not so good. >> >> >> >> >> Respectfully, >> >> >> >> Russell J. Thomas, Jr. >> >> THOMAS & ASSOCIATES >> >> www.californiaemployersattorneys.com >> >> >> >> Orange County Office >> >> 4121 Westerly Place, Suite 101 >> >> Newport Beach, California 92660 >> >> T: (949) 752-0101 >> >> F: (949) 257-4756 >> >> M: (949) 466-7238 >> >> >> >> Beverly Hills Office >> >> 9107 Wilshire Boulevard, Suite 450 >> >> Beverly Hills, California 90210 >> >> T: (310) 461-3561 >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf Of James Weisberg >> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 10:01 AM >> To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' >> Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel >> >> Hi Folks: >> >> >> >> Anyone on the lists have experience or knowledge regarding the ADA >> and suits >> against air carriers for violations available for quick consult? >> Thanks. >> >> >> >> James W. Weisberg, Esq. >> >> Law Office of J. William Weisberg >> >> 299 South Patencio Road #3 >> >> Palm Springs, California 92262 >> >> V: 916.425.1010 >> >> F: 916.374.7667 >> >> E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com >> >> Admitted in Wisconsin >> >> Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil >> Rights >> Advocacy for Children with Diabetes >> >> This message contains information which may be confidential and >> privileged. >> Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the >> addressee), >> you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any >> information >> contained in this message. If you have received this message in >> error, >> please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from >> your >> system. >> >> This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client >> relationship >> nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William >> Weisberg >> expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information >> in >> accordance with this disclaimer. >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for >> blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rthomas%40rjtla > wfi >> rm.com >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stiehm.law%40ju > no.com >> > > ____________________________________________________________ > Hotel > Hotel pics, info and virtual tours. Click here to book a hotel online. > http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/c?cp=ewJKbyZ61QloDsW_i_oQ_wAAJ1BdRO > y9vkzpR6E_Fj7jZTbnAAYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAATRAAAAAA= > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jimi-law%40dc.rr.c > om > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4652 (20091201) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4652 (20091201) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4653 (20091201) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4655 (20091202) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4655 (20091202) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in sightbb.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.426 / Virus Database: 270.14.90/2540 - Release Date: 12/02/09 07:33:00 _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jimi-law%40dc.rr.c om __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4656 (20091202) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4656 (20091202) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4656 (20091202) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniverse08%40gma il.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jimi-law%40dc.rr.c om __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4656 (20091202) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4656 (20091202) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4656 (20091202) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rthomas%40rjtlawfi rm.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jimi-law%40dc.rr.c om __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4656 (20091202) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4656 (20091202) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4656 (20091202) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com From jimi-law at dc.rr.com Thu Dec 3 01:36:19 2009 From: jimi-law at dc.rr.com (James Weisberg) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 17:36:19 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel In-Reply-To: <000b01ca73b1$c2409b20$6601a8c0@server> References: <20091201.125747.428.71023@mailpop05.vgs.untd.com> <93D426D90E0F47678A7E578E71609E06@screnci.local><027601ca7393$4693d280$d3bb7780$@com><003B92E643764A4EBC61041B985FF563@screnci.local> <000b01ca73b1$c2409b20$6601a8c0@server> Message-ID: USAir James W. Weisberg, Esq. Law Office of J. William Weisberg 299 South Patencio Road #3 Palm Springs, California 92262 V: 916.425.1010 F: 916.374.7667 E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com Admitted in Wisconsin Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil Rights Advocacy for Children with Diabetes This message contains information which may be confidential and privileged. Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from your system. This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client relationship nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William Weisberg expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in accordance with this disclaimer. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Dennis Clark Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 4:44 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel Hi James, Which airline was this? Thanks, Dennis ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Weisberg" To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 3:08 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > In retrospect it's actually kind of funny although at the time it wasn't. > I > travel with a Guide Dog. So, as it was discussed in this thread, I made > advance arrangements to be seated in the "bulkhead" seat which affords > more > foot space so the dog can be in a position whereby she is not entirely on > my > feet nor the feet of the person next to me. No problem. When I get to > the > airport to check in I get assistance to the gate since the dog has yet to > learn to read much to my consternation. When I get to the gate I check in > and inform the attendant about the Guide Dog and confirm the placement in > the bulkhead seat. At this time I also inquire if the plane is full, > sometimes it is not, as in this instance. I inform the attendant they may > wish to juggle the passengers around and leave the seat next to me empty > so > they do not have a paying passenger with a dog on their legs for the > entire > trip. Never had a problem when put in these terms. I also inform them > the > window seat is necessary to keep the dog from sticking into the isle. So > a > window, bulkhead seat with and empty seat next to me is ideal for me, the > dog, and the passenger who would otherwise be seated next to me. > > Get on the plane and in my window bulk head seat which has been assigned > to > me along with leaving the seat next to me empty which was arranged at the > gate. I am traveling with a cat in a container which I have paid to bring > on the plane and immediately after taking my seat I place the cat > container > in the seat next to me to get "situated." As soon as I am seated I am > confronted by a stew who says I will have to change seats to another row; > non bulkhead. I think it was the cat container b/c the rules I believe > are > it has to be placed under the seat in front of you and a bulkhead seat has > no seat in front of it so . . . On my travels the other way with the cat > six months earlier the container was taken and moved to an appropriate > place > on the plane to the entertainment of the other passengers. Anyways, I > politely inform the stew I cannot move to another row and attempt to > explain > my particular circumstances which make this so. He interrupts me and > starts > to berate me, and here comes the funny part, he actually says to me, "we > have disabled passengers who have paid for these seats (the two next to > me)." Keep in mind I am sitting there with a dog in harness that says > "Guide Dogs for the Blind." This guy is a real genius. I just tell him > after that to het his supervisor. The sup shows and gives me the same > routine stating there is an entire empty row in the rear of the plane > (where > of course only I would be inconvenienced without a place for MY feet). So > instead of moving the passengers across the isle in the bulkhead row to > the > empty row of seats and allowing the other disabled passengers to take the > bulk head across the row from me they instead stuck a nice old woman and > her > daughter next to me (nobody disabled) and this nice woman took it in > stride > with grace and dealt with a dog on her feet for four plus hours. > > The humiliation comes from, if not obvious, having my disability pointed > out > to all on the plane who hadn't already noticed in a demeaning manner > (which > would not have occurred but for the disability)thereafter followed up by > their non accommodating my request to me indicates indifference to the > needs > of those similarly situated as I when traveling. Seems like the airline I > refer is in need of some modification to their training. I think I may > help > them out toward that end. > > James W. Weisberg, Esq. > > Law Office of J. William Weisberg > > 299 South Patencio Road #3 > > Palm Springs, California 92262 > > V: 916.425.1010 > > F: 916.374.7667 > > E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com > > Admitted in Wisconsin > > Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil Rights > Advocacy for Children with Diabetes > > This message contains information which may be confidential and > privileged. > Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), > you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information > contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, > please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from your > system. > > This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client > relationship > nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William > Weisberg > expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in > accordance with this disclaimer. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of WB > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 1:06 PM > To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > > Well, exactly how wer you marginalized is what the question is I think. > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of James Weisberg > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 2:40 PM > To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > > being marginalized because of something (my case disability)in front of a > plane full of passengers is humiliating. No? > > James W. Weisberg, Esq. > > Law Office of J. William Weisberg > > 299 South Patencio Road #3 > > Palm Springs, California 92262 > > V: 916.425.1010 > > F: 916.374.7667 > > E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com > > Admitted in Wisconsin > > Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil Rights > Advocacy for Children with Diabetes > > This message contains information which may be confidential and > privileged. > Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), > you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information > contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, > please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from your > system. > > This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client > relationship > nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William > Weisberg > expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in > accordance with this disclaimer. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 11:19 AM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > > In your opinion, how were you humiliated? > Steve > Steve > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "James Weisberg" > To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 1:01 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > > >> As the original poster of this thread I wanted to point out the reason >> for >> my inquiry was not related to accommodations but rather being publicly >> humiliated by air carrier staff (stew) which of course is a common >> carrier >> and that's a big "no no." Since the humiliation was based upon the >> presence >> of a guide dog the ADA first came to mind. >> >> >> >> Finally, Ben you rock dude!! >> >> >> James W. Weisberg, Esq. >> >> Law Office of J. William Weisberg >> >> 299 South Patencio Road #3 >> >> Palm Springs, California 92262 >> >> V: 916.425.1010 >> >> F: 916.374.7667 >> >> E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com >> >> Admitted in Wisconsin >> >> Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil Rights >> Advocacy for Children with Diabetes >> >> This message contains information which may be confidential and >> privileged. >> Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the >> addressee), >> you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any >> information >> contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, >> please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from your >> system. >> >> This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client >> relationship >> nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William >> Weisberg >> expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in >> accordance with this disclaimer. >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf Of stiehm.law >> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 12:58 PM >> To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> Cc: blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel >> >> In addition to the airlines, I have recently become curious as to what if >> any, accommodations for the TSA makes with respect to disabled people >> going through security and being picked up by somebody at the gate at the >> terminal at the other end of the flight. For example, do they permit a >> blind person who is traveling alone to be accompanied through security, >> down to the airline check-in counter at the gate by a non-ticketed >> person. >> >> At the other end, is a non-ticketed person permitted through security to >> go to the gate to meet a blind person flying alone? >> >> If TSA does not provide for such accommodations do the airlines take it >> on themselves to provide this service? >> >> Has anybody had any experience in this regard? Is the accommodation, if >> any, voluntary on the part of the TSA and/or the airlines or is it >> governed by regulation? >> >> Patrick H. Stiehm >> Stiehm Law Office >> Alexandria, VA 22309 >> 703-360-1089 (Voice) >> 703-935-8266 (Fax) >> >> >> >> Tue, 1 Dec 2009 11:30:37 -0800 "Russell J. Thomas, Jr." >> writes: >>> Off the top of my head, and without any new research, the only case >>> I >>> remember is a case challenging the accessibility of airline websites >>> with >>> respect to attempting to make reservations and ordering tickets on >>> line. >>> >>> I also think that there are regulations on the subject, especially >>> dealing >>> with how disabled passengers are to be treated (or perhaps on some >>> occasions >>> mistreated). >>> >>> I often thought it would be a good idea for the NFB to put together >>> a short >>> guide book concerning travel, including air travel, based upon >>> experiences >>> of NFB members, to be used as a reference guide for blind people who >>> use air >>> travel. Certainly things have changed since 911--some changes for >>> the good, >>> and others not so good. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Respectfully, >>> >>> >>> >>> Russell J. Thomas, Jr. >>> >>> THOMAS & ASSOCIATES >>> >>> www.californiaemployersattorneys.com >>> >>> >>> >>> Orange County Office >>> >>> 4121 Westerly Place, Suite 101 >>> >>> Newport Beach, California 92660 >>> >>> T: (949) 752-0101 >>> >>> F: (949) 257-4756 >>> >>> M: (949) 466-7238 >>> >>> >>> >>> Beverly Hills Office >>> >>> 9107 Wilshire Boulevard, Suite 450 >>> >>> Beverly Hills, California 90210 >>> >>> T: (310) 461-3561 >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>> Behalf Of James Weisberg >>> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 10:01 AM >>> To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' >>> Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel >>> >>> Hi Folks: >>> >>> >>> >>> Anyone on the lists have experience or knowledge regarding the ADA >>> and suits >>> against air carriers for violations available for quick consult? >>> Thanks. >>> >>> >>> >>> James W. Weisberg, Esq. >>> >>> Law Office of J. William Weisberg >>> >>> 299 South Patencio Road #3 >>> >>> Palm Springs, California 92262 >>> >>> V: 916.425.1010 >>> >>> F: 916.374.7667 >>> >>> E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com >>> >>> Admitted in Wisconsin >>> >>> Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil >>> Rights >>> Advocacy for Children with Diabetes >>> >>> This message contains information which may be confidential and >>> privileged. >>> Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the >>> addressee), >>> you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any >>> information >>> contained in this message. If you have received this message in >>> error, >>> please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from >>> your >>> system. >>> >>> This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client >>> relationship >>> nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William >>> Weisberg >>> expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information >>> in >>> accordance with this disclaimer. >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> blindlaw: >>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rthomas%40rjtla >> wfi >>> rm.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for blindlaw: >>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stiehm.law%40ju >> no.com >>> >> >> ____________________________________________________________ >> Hotel >> Hotel pics, info and virtual tours. Click here to book a hotel online. >> > http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/c?cp=ewJKbyZ61QloDsW_i_oQ_wAAJ1BdRO >> y9vkzpR6E_Fj7jZTbnAAYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAATRAAAAAA= >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jimi-law%40dc.rr.c >> om >> >> __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus >> signature >> database 4652 (20091201) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus >> signature >> database 4652 (20091201) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus >> signature >> database 4653 (20091201) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus >> signature >> database 4655 (20091202) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus >> signature >> database 4655 (20091202) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in > sightbb.com > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.426 / Virus Database: 270.14.90/2540 - Release Date: 12/02/09 > 07:33:00 > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jimi-law%40dc.rr.c > om > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4656 (20091202) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4656 (20091202) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4656 (20091202) __________ > >The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniverse08%40gma > il.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jimi-law%40dc.rr.c > om > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4656 (20091202) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4656 (20091202) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4656 (20091202) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dennisgclark%40sbc global.net _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jimi-law%40dc.rr.c om __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4656 (20091202) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4656 (20091202) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4656 (20091202) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com From mruniverse08 at gmail.com Thu Dec 3 01:58:02 2009 From: mruniverse08 at gmail.com (WB) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 19:58:02 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel In-Reply-To: <939B98E432004FC4BA69464FA4D211B1@screnci.local> References: <20091201.125747.428.71023@mailpop05.vgs.untd.com> <93D426D90E0F47678A7E578E71609E06@screnci.local> <027601ca7393$4693d280$d3bb7780$@com><003B92E643764A4EBC61041B985FF563@screnci.local> <02cc01ca73a5$2c438120$84ca8360$@com> <939B98E432004FC4BA69464FA4D211B1@screnci.local> Message-ID: <030f01ca73bc$0c6741e0$2535c5a0$@com> If you're continually having these problems, maybe try going to the powers that be of the airline...not simply a supervisor. Maybe the airline you're using isn't aware of what's going on...especially if they don't have blind travelers on a regular basis. I know that may sound like an excuse but the average person does not know. I know you mentioned advocating for yourself. The more efficient way may be just dealing with airline executives. Then that problem may happen less for you or others. Just a thought on my part. Have a great night. This was an interesting read. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of James Weisberg Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 7:28 PM To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel This incident was NOTHING. With my first dog I was asked after taking my seat if my dog had a "license" to be on the plane. Of course I knew this was absurd. The stew in this particular case was Asian and it was apparent to me (still had some vision at the time) she had some cultural issues going on. Anyways, same situation; I ask to speak with the supervisor who comes over and backs up his staff. I tell him to blow off (keep in mind I am litigating in civil court all the time). A short while passes when several people obviously from the airline ask me to exit my seat (which by the way was a bulkhead seat, i.e., in front of all the passengers)and come with them. They removed me from the plane and took me with my Guide Dog out into the breezeway where the airline biggie took out a manual and found a regulation to show me indicating if I was asked for identification the service animal was indeed a service animal I was required to produce it. Unfortunately, once again the staff was untrained and after producing the "card" issued me by Guide Dogs was let back on the plane to my seat. Asked for a license but only really needed to show proof of the fact the dog was a service animal. Pathetic. Didn't sue then but vowed I wouldn't be pushed around in the future. James W. Weisberg, Esq. Law Office of J. William Weisberg 299 South Patencio Road #3 Palm Springs, California 92262 V: 916.425.1010 F: 916.374.7667 E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com Admitted in Wisconsin Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil Rights Advocacy for Children with Diabetes This message contains information which may be confidential and privileged. Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from your system. This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client relationship nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William Weisberg expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in accordance with this disclaimer. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of WB Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 3:14 PM To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel After reading this detail, the earlier e-mails you sent now make sense to me. That's very sad that those attendants were not in line with whatever training they received. I'm sure they had to have had some and from what you say, it doesn't seem like they put any of it into practice. Has the airline powers that be turned their noses up to your requests for information on their training program or requests for some type of being made whole? I'm curious as I've never experienced anything to the level of which you speak. Thanks for sharing. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of James Weisberg Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 5:09 PM To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel In retrospect it's actually kind of funny although at the time it wasn't. I travel with a Guide Dog. So, as it was discussed in this thread, I made advance arrangements to be seated in the "bulkhead" seat which affords more foot space so the dog can be in a position whereby she is not entirely on my feet nor the feet of the person next to me. No problem. When I get to the airport to check in I get assistance to the gate since the dog has yet to learn to read much to my consternation. When I get to the gate I check in and inform the attendant about the Guide Dog and confirm the placement in the bulkhead seat. At this time I also inquire if the plane is full, sometimes it is not, as in this instance. I inform the attendant they may wish to juggle the passengers around and leave the seat next to me empty so they do not have a paying passenger with a dog on their legs for the entire trip. Never had a problem when put in these terms. I also inform them the window seat is necessary to keep the dog from sticking into the isle. So a window, bulkhead seat with and empty seat next to me is ideal for me, the dog, and the passenger who would otherwise be seated next to me. Get on the plane and in my window bulk head seat which has been assigned to me along with leaving the seat next to me empty which was arranged at the gate. I am traveling with a cat in a container which I have paid to bring on the plane and immediately after taking my seat I place the cat container in the seat next to me to get "situated." As soon as I am seated I am confronted by a stew who says I will have to change seats to another row; non bulkhead. I think it was the cat container b/c the rules I believe are it has to be placed under the seat in front of you and a bulkhead seat has no seat in front of it so . . . On my travels the other way with the cat six months earlier the container was taken and moved to an appropriate place on the plane to the entertainment of the other passengers. Anyways, I politely inform the stew I cannot move to another row and attempt to explain my particular circumstances which make this so. He interrupts me and starts to berate me, and here comes the funny part, he actually says to me, "we have disabled passengers who have paid for these seats (the two next to me)." Keep in mind I am sitting there with a dog in harness that says "Guide Dogs for the Blind." This guy is a real genius. I just tell him after that to het his supervisor. The sup shows and gives me the same routine stating there is an entire empty row in the rear of the plane (where of course only I would be inconvenienced without a place for MY feet). So instead of moving the passengers across the isle in the bulkhead row to the empty row of seats and allowing the other disabled passengers to take the bulk head across the row from me they instead stuck a nice old woman and her daughter next to me (nobody disabled) and this nice woman took it in stride with grace and dealt with a dog on her feet for four plus hours. The humiliation comes from, if not obvious, having my disability pointed out to all on the plane who hadn't already noticed in a demeaning manner (which would not have occurred but for the disability)thereafter followed up by their non accommodating my request to me indicates indifference to the needs of those similarly situated as I when traveling. Seems like the airline I refer is in need of some modification to their training. I think I may help them out toward that end. James W. Weisberg, Esq. Law Office of J. William Weisberg 299 South Patencio Road #3 Palm Springs, California 92262 V: 916.425.1010 F: 916.374.7667 E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com Admitted in Wisconsin Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil Rights Advocacy for Children with Diabetes This message contains information which may be confidential and privileged. Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from your system. This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client relationship nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William Weisberg expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in accordance with this disclaimer. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of WB Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 1:06 PM To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel Well, exactly how wer you marginalized is what the question is I think. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of James Weisberg Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 2:40 PM To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel being marginalized because of something (my case disability)in front of a plane full of passengers is humiliating. No? James W. Weisberg, Esq. Law Office of J. William Weisberg 299 South Patencio Road #3 Palm Springs, California 92262 V: 916.425.1010 F: 916.374.7667 E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com Admitted in Wisconsin Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil Rights Advocacy for Children with Diabetes This message contains information which may be confidential and privileged. Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from your system. This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client relationship nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William Weisberg expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in accordance with this disclaimer. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 11:19 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel In your opinion, how were you humiliated? Steve Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Weisberg" To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 1:01 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > As the original poster of this thread I wanted to point out the reason for > my inquiry was not related to accommodations but rather being publicly > humiliated by air carrier staff (stew) which of course is a common carrier > and that's a big "no no." Since the humiliation was based upon the > presence > of a guide dog the ADA first came to mind. > > > > Finally, Ben you rock dude!! > > > James W. Weisberg, Esq. > > Law Office of J. William Weisberg > > 299 South Patencio Road #3 > > Palm Springs, California 92262 > > V: 916.425.1010 > > F: 916.374.7667 > > E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com > > Admitted in Wisconsin > > Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil Rights > Advocacy for Children with Diabetes > > This message contains information which may be confidential and > privileged. > Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), > you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information > contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, > please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from your > system. > > This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client > relationship > nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William > Weisberg > expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in > accordance with this disclaimer. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of stiehm.law > Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 12:58 PM > To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org > Cc: blindlaw at nfbnet.org > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > > In addition to the airlines, I have recently become curious as to what if > any, accommodations for the TSA makes with respect to disabled people > going through security and being picked up by somebody at the gate at the > terminal at the other end of the flight. For example, do they permit a > blind person who is traveling alone to be accompanied through security, > down to the airline check-in counter at the gate by a non-ticketed > person. > > At the other end, is a non-ticketed person permitted through security to > go to the gate to meet a blind person flying alone? > > If TSA does not provide for such accommodations do the airlines take it > on themselves to provide this service? > > Has anybody had any experience in this regard? Is the accommodation, if > any, voluntary on the part of the TSA and/or the airlines or is it > governed by regulation? > > Patrick H. Stiehm > Stiehm Law Office > Alexandria, VA 22309 > 703-360-1089 (Voice) > 703-935-8266 (Fax) > > > > Tue, 1 Dec 2009 11:30:37 -0800 "Russell J. Thomas, Jr." > writes: >> Off the top of my head, and without any new research, the only case >> I >> remember is a case challenging the accessibility of airline websites >> with >> respect to attempting to make reservations and ordering tickets on >> line. >> >> I also think that there are regulations on the subject, especially >> dealing >> with how disabled passengers are to be treated (or perhaps on some >> occasions >> mistreated). >> >> I often thought it would be a good idea for the NFB to put together >> a short >> guide book concerning travel, including air travel, based upon >> experiences >> of NFB members, to be used as a reference guide for blind people who >> use air >> travel. Certainly things have changed since 911--some changes for >> the good, >> and others not so good. >> >> >> >> >> Respectfully, >> >> >> >> Russell J. Thomas, Jr. >> >> THOMAS & ASSOCIATES >> >> www.californiaemployersattorneys.com >> >> >> >> Orange County Office >> >> 4121 Westerly Place, Suite 101 >> >> Newport Beach, California 92660 >> >> T: (949) 752-0101 >> >> F: (949) 257-4756 >> >> M: (949) 466-7238 >> >> >> >> Beverly Hills Office >> >> 9107 Wilshire Boulevard, Suite 450 >> >> Beverly Hills, California 90210 >> >> T: (310) 461-3561 >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf Of James Weisberg >> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 10:01 AM >> To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' >> Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel >> >> Hi Folks: >> >> >> >> Anyone on the lists have experience or knowledge regarding the ADA >> and suits >> against air carriers for violations available for quick consult? >> Thanks. >> >> >> >> James W. Weisberg, Esq. >> >> Law Office of J. William Weisberg >> >> 299 South Patencio Road #3 >> >> Palm Springs, California 92262 >> >> V: 916.425.1010 >> >> F: 916.374.7667 >> >> E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com >> >> Admitted in Wisconsin >> >> Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil >> Rights >> Advocacy for Children with Diabetes >> >> This message contains information which may be confidential and >> privileged. >> Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the >> addressee), >> you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any >> information >> contained in this message. If you have received this message in >> error, >> please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from >> your >> system. >> >> This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client >> relationship >> nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William >> Weisberg >> expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information >> in >> accordance with this disclaimer. >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for >> blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rthomas%40rjtla > wfi >> rm.com >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stiehm.law%40ju > no.com >> > > ____________________________________________________________ > Hotel > Hotel pics, info and virtual tours. Click here to book a hotel online. > http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/c?cp=ewJKbyZ61QloDsW_i_oQ_wAAJ1BdRO > y9vkzpR6E_Fj7jZTbnAAYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAATRAAAAAA= > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jimi-law%40dc.rr.c > om > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4652 (20091201) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4652 (20091201) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4653 (20091201) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4655 (20091202) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4655 (20091202) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in sightbb.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.426 / Virus Database: 270.14.90/2540 - Release Date: 12/02/09 07:33:00 _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jimi-law%40dc.rr.c om __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4656 (20091202) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4656 (20091202) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4656 (20091202) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniverse08%40gma il.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jimi-law%40dc.rr.c om __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4656 (20091202) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4656 (20091202) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4656 (20091202) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniverse08%40gma il.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jimi-law%40dc.rr.c om __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4656 (20091202) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4656 (20091202) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4656 (20091202) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniverse08%40gma il.com From stevep.deeley at insightbb.com Thu Dec 3 02:26:32 2009 From: stevep.deeley at insightbb.com (Steve P. Deeley) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 21:26:32 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel In-Reply-To: <939B98E432004FC4BA69464FA4D211B1@screnci.local> References: <20091201.125747.428.71023@mailpop05.vgs.untd.com> <93D426D90E0F47678A7E578E71609E06@screnci.local> <027601ca7393$4693d280$d3bb7780$@com> <003B92E643764A4EBC61041B985FF563@screnci.local> <02cc01ca73a5$2c438120$84ca8360$@com> <939B98E432004FC4BA69464FA4D211B1@screnci.local> Message-ID: <5D5CF0C688C44497AF90C7D727DC263A@StevePC> Yeah, I would talk with the executives of that particular airline and let them know that if you can't come to some of agreement, you will litigate. Maybe some free trips would be nice or, at least, an apology!! Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Weisberg" To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 8:28 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > This incident was NOTHING. With my first dog I was asked after taking my > seat if my dog had a "license" to be on the plane. Of course I knew this > was absurd. The stew in this particular case was Asian and it was > apparent > to me (still had some vision at the time) she had some cultural issues > going > on. Anyways, same situation; I ask to speak with the supervisor who > comes > over and backs up his staff. I tell him to blow off (keep in mind I am > litigating in civil court all the time). A short while passes when > several > people obviously from the airline ask me to exit my seat (which by the way > was a bulkhead seat, i.e., in front of all the passengers)and come with > them. They removed me from the plane and took me with my Guide Dog out > into > the breezeway where the airline biggie took out a manual and found a > regulation to show me indicating if I was asked for identification the > service animal was indeed a service animal I was required to produce it. > Unfortunately, once again the staff was untrained and after producing the > "card" issued me by Guide Dogs was let back on the plane to my seat. > Asked > for a license but only really needed to show proof of the fact the dog was > a > service animal. Pathetic. Didn't sue then but vowed I wouldn't be pushed > around in the future. > > James W. Weisberg, Esq. > > Law Office of J. William Weisberg > > 299 South Patencio Road #3 > > Palm Springs, California 92262 > > V: 916.425.1010 > > F: 916.374.7667 > > E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com > > Admitted in Wisconsin > > Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil Rights > Advocacy for Children with Diabetes > > This message contains information which may be confidential and > privileged. > Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), > you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information > contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, > please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from your > system. > > This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client > relationship > nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William > Weisberg > expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in > accordance with this disclaimer. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of WB > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 3:14 PM > To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > > After reading this detail, the earlier e-mails you sent now make sense to > me. > > That's very sad that those attendants were not in line with whatever > training they received. I'm sure they had to have had some and from what > you say, it doesn't seem like they put any of it into practice. > > Has the airline powers that be turned their noses up to your requests for > information on their training program or requests for some type of being > made whole? > > I'm curious as I've never experienced anything to the level of which you > speak. > > Thanks for sharing. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of James Weisberg > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 5:09 PM > To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > > In retrospect it's actually kind of funny although at the time it wasn't. > I > travel with a Guide Dog. So, as it was discussed in this thread, I made > advance arrangements to be seated in the "bulkhead" seat which affords > more > foot space so the dog can be in a position whereby she is not entirely on > my > feet nor the feet of the person next to me. No problem. When I get to > the > airport to check in I get assistance to the gate since the dog has yet to > learn to read much to my consternation. When I get to the gate I check in > and inform the attendant about the Guide Dog and confirm the placement in > the bulkhead seat. At this time I also inquire if the plane is full, > sometimes it is not, as in this instance. I inform the attendant they may > wish to juggle the passengers around and leave the seat next to me empty > so > they do not have a paying passenger with a dog on their legs for the > entire > trip. Never had a problem when put in these terms. I also inform them > the > window seat is necessary to keep the dog from sticking into the isle. So > a > window, bulkhead seat with and empty seat next to me is ideal for me, the > dog, and the passenger who would otherwise be seated next to me. > > Get on the plane and in my window bulk head seat which has been assigned > to > me along with leaving the seat next to me empty which was arranged at the > gate. I am traveling with a cat in a container which I have paid to bring > on the plane and immediately after taking my seat I place the cat > container > in the seat next to me to get "situated." As soon as I am seated I am > confronted by a stew who says I will have to change seats to another row; > non bulkhead. I think it was the cat container b/c the rules I believe > are > it has to be placed under the seat in front of you and a bulkhead seat has > no seat in front of it so . . . On my travels the other way with the cat > six months earlier the container was taken and moved to an appropriate > place > on the plane to the entertainment of the other passengers. Anyways, I > politely inform the stew I cannot move to another row and attempt to > explain > my particular circumstances which make this so. He interrupts me and > starts > to berate me, and here comes the funny part, he actually says to me, "we > have disabled passengers who have paid for these seats (the two next to > me)." Keep in mind I am sitting there with a dog in harness that says > "Guide Dogs for the Blind." This guy is a real genius. I just tell him > after that to het his supervisor. The sup shows and gives me the same > routine stating there is an entire empty row in the rear of the plane > (where > of course only I would be inconvenienced without a place for MY feet). So > instead of moving the passengers across the isle in the bulkhead row to > the > empty row of seats and allowing the other disabled passengers to take the > bulk head across the row from me they instead stuck a nice old woman and > her > daughter next to me (nobody disabled) and this nice woman took it in > stride > with grace and dealt with a dog on her feet for four plus hours. > > The humiliation comes from, if not obvious, having my disability pointed > out > to all on the plane who hadn't already noticed in a demeaning manner > (which > would not have occurred but for the disability)thereafter followed up by > their non accommodating my request to me indicates indifference to the > needs > of those similarly situated as I when traveling. Seems like the airline I > refer is in need of some modification to their training. I think I may > help > them out toward that end. > > James W. Weisberg, Esq. > > Law Office of J. William Weisberg > > 299 South Patencio Road #3 > > Palm Springs, California 92262 > > V: 916.425.1010 > > F: 916.374.7667 > > E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com > > Admitted in Wisconsin > > Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil Rights > Advocacy for Children with Diabetes > > This message contains information which may be confidential and > privileged. > Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), > you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information > contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, > please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from your > system. > > This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client > relationship > nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William > Weisberg > expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in > accordance with this disclaimer. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of WB > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 1:06 PM > To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > > Well, exactly how wer you marginalized is what the question is I think. > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of James Weisberg > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 2:40 PM > To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > > being marginalized because of something (my case disability)in front of a > plane full of passengers is humiliating. No? > > James W. Weisberg, Esq. > > Law Office of J. William Weisberg > > 299 South Patencio Road #3 > > Palm Springs, California 92262 > > V: 916.425.1010 > > F: 916.374.7667 > > E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com > > Admitted in Wisconsin > > Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil Rights > Advocacy for Children with Diabetes > > This message contains information which may be confidential and > privileged. > Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), > you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information > contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, > please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from your > system. > > This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client > relationship > nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William > Weisberg > expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in > accordance with this disclaimer. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 11:19 AM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > > In your opinion, how were you humiliated? > Steve > Steve > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "James Weisberg" > To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 1:01 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > > >> As the original poster of this thread I wanted to point out the reason >> for >> my inquiry was not related to accommodations but rather being publicly >> humiliated by air carrier staff (stew) which of course is a common >> carrier >> and that's a big "no no." Since the humiliation was based upon the >> presence >> of a guide dog the ADA first came to mind. >> >> >> >> Finally, Ben you rock dude!! >> >> >> James W. Weisberg, Esq. >> >> Law Office of J. William Weisberg >> >> 299 South Patencio Road #3 >> >> Palm Springs, California 92262 >> >> V: 916.425.1010 >> >> F: 916.374.7667 >> >> E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com >> >> Admitted in Wisconsin >> >> Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil Rights >> Advocacy for Children with Diabetes >> >> This message contains information which may be confidential and >> privileged. >> Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the >> addressee), >> you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any >> information >> contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, >> please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from your >> system. >> >> This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client >> relationship >> nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William >> Weisberg >> expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in >> accordance with this disclaimer. >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf Of stiehm.law >> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 12:58 PM >> To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> Cc: blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel >> >> In addition to the airlines, I have recently become curious as to what if >> any, accommodations for the TSA makes with respect to disabled people >> going through security and being picked up by somebody at the gate at the >> terminal at the other end of the flight. For example, do they permit a >> blind person who is traveling alone to be accompanied through security, >> down to the airline check-in counter at the gate by a non-ticketed >> person. >> >> At the other end, is a non-ticketed person permitted through security to >> go to the gate to meet a blind person flying alone? >> >> If TSA does not provide for such accommodations do the airlines take it >> on themselves to provide this service? >> >> Has anybody had any experience in this regard? Is the accommodation, if >> any, voluntary on the part of the TSA and/or the airlines or is it >> governed by regulation? >> >> Patrick H. Stiehm >> Stiehm Law Office >> Alexandria, VA 22309 >> 703-360-1089 (Voice) >> 703-935-8266 (Fax) >> >> >> >> Tue, 1 Dec 2009 11:30:37 -0800 "Russell J. Thomas, Jr." >> writes: >>> Off the top of my head, and without any new research, the only case >>> I >>> remember is a case challenging the accessibility of airline websites >>> with >>> respect to attempting to make reservations and ordering tickets on >>> line. >>> >>> I also think that there are regulations on the subject, especially >>> dealing >>> with how disabled passengers are to be treated (or perhaps on some >>> occasions >>> mistreated). >>> >>> I often thought it would be a good idea for the NFB to put together >>> a short >>> guide book concerning travel, including air travel, based upon >>> experiences >>> of NFB members, to be used as a reference guide for blind people who >>> use air >>> travel. Certainly things have changed since 911--some changes for >>> the good, >>> and others not so good. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Respectfully, >>> >>> >>> >>> Russell J. Thomas, Jr. >>> >>> THOMAS & ASSOCIATES >>> >>> www.californiaemployersattorneys.com >>> >>> >>> >>> Orange County Office >>> >>> 4121 Westerly Place, Suite 101 >>> >>> Newport Beach, California 92660 >>> >>> T: (949) 752-0101 >>> >>> F: (949) 257-4756 >>> >>> M: (949) 466-7238 >>> >>> >>> >>> Beverly Hills Office >>> >>> 9107 Wilshire Boulevard, Suite 450 >>> >>> Beverly Hills, California 90210 >>> >>> T: (310) 461-3561 >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>> Behalf Of James Weisberg >>> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 10:01 AM >>> To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' >>> Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel >>> >>> Hi Folks: >>> >>> >>> >>> Anyone on the lists have experience or knowledge regarding the ADA >>> and suits >>> against air carriers for violations available for quick consult? >>> Thanks. >>> >>> >>> >>> James W. Weisberg, Esq. >>> >>> Law Office of J. William Weisberg >>> >>> 299 South Patencio Road #3 >>> >>> Palm Springs, California 92262 >>> >>> V: 916.425.1010 >>> >>> F: 916.374.7667 >>> >>> E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com >>> >>> Admitted in Wisconsin >>> >>> Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil >>> Rights >>> Advocacy for Children with Diabetes >>> >>> This message contains information which may be confidential and >>> privileged. >>> Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the >>> addressee), >>> you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any >>> information >>> contained in this message. If you have received this message in >>> error, >>> please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from >>> your >>> system. >>> >>> This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client >>> relationship >>> nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William >>> Weisberg >>> expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information >>> in >>> accordance with this disclaimer. >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> blindlaw: >>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rthomas%40rjtla >> wfi >>> rm.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for blindlaw: >>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stiehm.law%40ju >> no.com >>> >> >> ____________________________________________________________ >> Hotel >> Hotel pics, info and virtual tours. Click here to book a hotel online. >> > http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/c?cp=ewJKbyZ61QloDsW_i_oQ_wAAJ1BdRO >> y9vkzpR6E_Fj7jZTbnAAYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAATRAAAAAA= >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jimi-law%40dc.rr.c >> om >> >> __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus >> signature >> database 4652 (20091201) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus >> signature >> database 4652 (20091201) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus >> signature >> database 4653 (20091201) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus >> signature >> database 4655 (20091202) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus >> signature >> database 4655 (20091202) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in > sightbb.com > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.426 / Virus Database: 270.14.90/2540 - Release Date: 12/02/09 > 07:33:00 > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jimi-law%40dc.rr.c > om > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4656 (20091202) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4656 (20091202) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4656 (20091202) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniverse08%40gma > il.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jimi-law%40dc.rr.c > om > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4656 (20091202) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4656 (20091202) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4656 (20091202) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniverse08%40gma > il.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jimi-law%40dc.rr.c > om > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4656 (20091202) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4656 (20091202) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4656 (20091202) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.426 / Virus Database: 270.14.91/2541 - Release Date: 12/02/09 19:43:00 From jimi-law at dc.rr.com Thu Dec 3 03:01:21 2009 From: jimi-law at dc.rr.com (James Weisberg) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 19:01:21 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel In-Reply-To: <5D5CF0C688C44497AF90C7D727DC263A@StevePC> References: <20091201.125747.428.71023@mailpop05.vgs.untd.com><93D426D90E0F47678A7E578E71609E06@screnci.local><027601ca7393$4693d280$d3bb7780$@com><003B92E643764A4EBC61041B985FF563@screnci.local><02cc01ca73a5$2c438120$84ca8360$@com><939B98E432004FC4BA69464FA4D211B1@screnci.local> <5D5CF0C688C44497AF90C7D727DC263A@StevePC> Message-ID: yeah, free trips on another airline! James W. Weisberg, Esq. Law Office of J. William Weisberg 299 South Patencio Road #3 Palm Springs, California 92262 V: 916.425.1010 F: 916.374.7667 E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com Admitted in Wisconsin Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil Rights Advocacy for Children with Diabetes This message contains information which may be confidential and privileged. Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from your system. This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client relationship nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William Weisberg expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in accordance with this disclaimer. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 6:27 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel Yeah, I would talk with the executives of that particular airline and let them know that if you can't come to some of agreement, you will litigate. Maybe some free trips would be nice or, at least, an apology!! Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Weisberg" To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 8:28 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > This incident was NOTHING. With my first dog I was asked after taking my > seat if my dog had a "license" to be on the plane. Of course I knew this > was absurd. The stew in this particular case was Asian and it was > apparent > to me (still had some vision at the time) she had some cultural issues > going > on. Anyways, same situation; I ask to speak with the supervisor who > comes > over and backs up his staff. I tell him to blow off (keep in mind I am > litigating in civil court all the time). A short while passes when > several > people obviously from the airline ask me to exit my seat (which by the way > was a bulkhead seat, i.e., in front of all the passengers)and come with > them. They removed me from the plane and took me with my Guide Dog out > into > the breezeway where the airline biggie took out a manual and found a > regulation to show me indicating if I was asked for identification the > service animal was indeed a service animal I was required to produce it. > Unfortunately, once again the staff was untrained and after producing the > "card" issued me by Guide Dogs was let back on the plane to my seat. > Asked > for a license but only really needed to show proof of the fact the dog was > a > service animal. Pathetic. Didn't sue then but vowed I wouldn't be pushed > around in the future. > > James W. Weisberg, Esq. > > Law Office of J. William Weisberg > > 299 South Patencio Road #3 > > Palm Springs, California 92262 > > V: 916.425.1010 > > F: 916.374.7667 > > E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com > > Admitted in Wisconsin > > Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil Rights > Advocacy for Children with Diabetes > > This message contains information which may be confidential and > privileged. > Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), > you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information > contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, > please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from your > system. > > This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client > relationship > nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William > Weisberg > expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in > accordance with this disclaimer. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of WB > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 3:14 PM > To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > > After reading this detail, the earlier e-mails you sent now make sense to > me. > > That's very sad that those attendants were not in line with whatever > training they received. I'm sure they had to have had some and from what > you say, it doesn't seem like they put any of it into practice. > > Has the airline powers that be turned their noses up to your requests for > information on their training program or requests for some type of being > made whole? > > I'm curious as I've never experienced anything to the level of which you > speak. > > Thanks for sharing. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of James Weisberg > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 5:09 PM > To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > > In retrospect it's actually kind of funny although at the time it wasn't. > I > travel with a Guide Dog. So, as it was discussed in this thread, I made > advance arrangements to be seated in the "bulkhead" seat which affords > more > foot space so the dog can be in a position whereby she is not entirely on > my > feet nor the feet of the person next to me. No problem. When I get to > the > airport to check in I get assistance to the gate since the dog has yet to > learn to read much to my consternation. When I get to the gate I check in > and inform the attendant about the Guide Dog and confirm the placement in > the bulkhead seat. At this time I also inquire if the plane is full, > sometimes it is not, as in this instance. I inform the attendant they may > wish to juggle the passengers around and leave the seat next to me empty > so > they do not have a paying passenger with a dog on their legs for the > entire > trip. Never had a problem when put in these terms. I also inform them > the > window seat is necessary to keep the dog from sticking into the isle. So > a > window, bulkhead seat with and empty seat next to me is ideal for me, the > dog, and the passenger who would otherwise be seated next to me. > > Get on the plane and in my window bulk head seat which has been assigned > to > me along with leaving the seat next to me empty which was arranged at the > gate. I am traveling with a cat in a container which I have paid to bring > on the plane and immediately after taking my seat I place the cat > container > in the seat next to me to get "situated." As soon as I am seated I am > confronted by a stew who says I will have to change seats to another row; > non bulkhead. I think it was the cat container b/c the rules I believe > are > it has to be placed under the seat in front of you and a bulkhead seat has > no seat in front of it so . . . On my travels the other way with the cat > six months earlier the container was taken and moved to an appropriate > place > on the plane to the entertainment of the other passengers. Anyways, I > politely inform the stew I cannot move to another row and attempt to > explain > my particular circumstances which make this so. He interrupts me and > starts > to berate me, and here comes the funny part, he actually says to me, "we > have disabled passengers who have paid for these seats (the two next to > me)." Keep in mind I am sitting there with a dog in harness that says > "Guide Dogs for the Blind." This guy is a real genius. I just tell him > after that to het his supervisor. The sup shows and gives me the same > routine stating there is an entire empty row in the rear of the plane > (where > of course only I would be inconvenienced without a place for MY feet). So > instead of moving the passengers across the isle in the bulkhead row to > the > empty row of seats and allowing the other disabled passengers to take the > bulk head across the row from me they instead stuck a nice old woman and > her > daughter next to me (nobody disabled) and this nice woman took it in > stride > with grace and dealt with a dog on her feet for four plus hours. > > The humiliation comes from, if not obvious, having my disability pointed > out > to all on the plane who hadn't already noticed in a demeaning manner > (which > would not have occurred but for the disability)thereafter followed up by > their non accommodating my request to me indicates indifference to the > needs > of those similarly situated as I when traveling. Seems like the airline I > refer is in need of some modification to their training. I think I may > help > them out toward that end. > > James W. Weisberg, Esq. > > Law Office of J. William Weisberg > > 299 South Patencio Road #3 > > Palm Springs, California 92262 > > V: 916.425.1010 > > F: 916.374.7667 > > E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com > > Admitted in Wisconsin > > Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil Rights > Advocacy for Children with Diabetes > > This message contains information which may be confidential and > privileged. > Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), > you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information > contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, > please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from your > system. > > This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client > relationship > nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William > Weisberg > expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in > accordance with this disclaimer. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of WB > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 1:06 PM > To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > > Well, exactly how wer you marginalized is what the question is I think. > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of James Weisberg > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 2:40 PM > To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > > being marginalized because of something (my case disability)in front of a > plane full of passengers is humiliating. No? > > James W. Weisberg, Esq. > > Law Office of J. William Weisberg > > 299 South Patencio Road #3 > > Palm Springs, California 92262 > > V: 916.425.1010 > > F: 916.374.7667 > > E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com > > Admitted in Wisconsin > > Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil Rights > Advocacy for Children with Diabetes > > This message contains information which may be confidential and > privileged. > Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), > you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information > contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, > please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from your > system. > > This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client > relationship > nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William > Weisberg > expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in > accordance with this disclaimer. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 11:19 AM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > > In your opinion, how were you humiliated? > Steve > Steve > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "James Weisberg" > To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 1:01 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > > >> As the original poster of this thread I wanted to point out the reason >> for >> my inquiry was not related to accommodations but rather being publicly >> humiliated by air carrier staff (stew) which of course is a common >> carrier >> and that's a big "no no." Since the humiliation was based upon the >> presence >> of a guide dog the ADA first came to mind. >> >> >> >> Finally, Ben you rock dude!! >> >> >> James W. Weisberg, Esq. >> >> Law Office of J. William Weisberg >> >> 299 South Patencio Road #3 >> >> Palm Springs, California 92262 >> >> V: 916.425.1010 >> >> F: 916.374.7667 >> >> E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com >> >> Admitted in Wisconsin >> >> Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil Rights >> Advocacy for Children with Diabetes >> >> This message contains information which may be confidential and >> privileged. >> Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the >> addressee), >> you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any >> information >> contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, >> please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from your >> system. >> >> This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client >> relationship >> nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William >> Weisberg >> expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in >> accordance with this disclaimer. >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf Of stiehm.law >> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 12:58 PM >> To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> Cc: blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel >> >> In addition to the airlines, I have recently become curious as to what if >> any, accommodations for the TSA makes with respect to disabled people >> going through security and being picked up by somebody at the gate at the >> terminal at the other end of the flight. For example, do they permit a >> blind person who is traveling alone to be accompanied through security, >> down to the airline check-in counter at the gate by a non-ticketed >> person. >> >> At the other end, is a non-ticketed person permitted through security to >> go to the gate to meet a blind person flying alone? >> >> If TSA does not provide for such accommodations do the airlines take it >> on themselves to provide this service? >> >> Has anybody had any experience in this regard? Is the accommodation, if >> any, voluntary on the part of the TSA and/or the airlines or is it >> governed by regulation? >> >> Patrick H. Stiehm >> Stiehm Law Office >> Alexandria, VA 22309 >> 703-360-1089 (Voice) >> 703-935-8266 (Fax) >> >> >> >> Tue, 1 Dec 2009 11:30:37 -0800 "Russell J. Thomas, Jr." >> writes: >>> Off the top of my head, and without any new research, the only case >>> I >>> remember is a case challenging the accessibility of airline websites >>> with >>> respect to attempting to make reservations and ordering tickets on >>> line. >>> >>> I also think that there are regulations on the subject, especially >>> dealing >>> with how disabled passengers are to be treated (or perhaps on some >>> occasions >>> mistreated). >>> >>> I often thought it would be a good idea for the NFB to put together >>> a short >>> guide book concerning travel, including air travel, based upon >>> experiences >>> of NFB members, to be used as a reference guide for blind people who >>> use air >>> travel. Certainly things have changed since 911--some changes for >>> the good, >>> and others not so good. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Respectfully, >>> >>> >>> >>> Russell J. Thomas, Jr. >>> >>> THOMAS & ASSOCIATES >>> >>> www.californiaemployersattorneys.com >>> >>> >>> >>> Orange County Office >>> >>> 4121 Westerly Place, Suite 101 >>> >>> Newport Beach, California 92660 >>> >>> T: (949) 752-0101 >>> >>> F: (949) 257-4756 >>> >>> M: (949) 466-7238 >>> >>> >>> >>> Beverly Hills Office >>> >>> 9107 Wilshire Boulevard, Suite 450 >>> >>> Beverly Hills, California 90210 >>> >>> T: (310) 461-3561 >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>> Behalf Of James Weisberg >>> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 10:01 AM >>> To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' >>> Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel >>> >>> Hi Folks: >>> >>> >>> >>> Anyone on the lists have experience or knowledge regarding the ADA >>> and suits >>> against air carriers for violations available for quick consult? >>> Thanks. >>> >>> >>> >>> James W. Weisberg, Esq. >>> >>> Law Office of J. William Weisberg >>> >>> 299 South Patencio Road #3 >>> >>> Palm Springs, California 92262 >>> >>> V: 916.425.1010 >>> >>> F: 916.374.7667 >>> >>> E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com >>> >>> Admitted in Wisconsin >>> >>> Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil >>> Rights >>> Advocacy for Children with Diabetes >>> >>> This message contains information which may be confidential and >>> privileged. >>> Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the >>> addressee), >>> you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any >>> information >>> contained in this message. If you have received this message in >>> error, >>> please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from >>> your >>> system. >>> >>> This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client >>> relationship >>> nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William >>> Weisberg >>> expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information >>> in >>> accordance with this disclaimer. >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> blindlaw: >>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rthomas%40rjtla >> wfi >>> rm.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for blindlaw: >>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stiehm.law%40ju >> no.com >>> >> >> ____________________________________________________________ >> Hotel >> Hotel pics, info and virtual tours. Click here to book a hotel online. >> > http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/c?cp=ewJKbyZ61QloDsW_i_oQ_wAAJ1BdRO >> y9vkzpR6E_Fj7jZTbnAAYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAATRAAAAAA= >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jimi-law%40dc.rr.c >> om >> >> __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus >> signature >> database 4652 (20091201) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus >> signature >> database 4652 (20091201) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus >> signature >> database 4653 (20091201) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus >> signature >> database 4655 (20091202) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus >> signature >> database 4655 (20091202) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in > sightbb.com > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.426 / Virus Database: 270.14.90/2540 - Release Date: 12/02/09 > 07:33:00 > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jimi-law%40dc.rr.c > om > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4656 (20091202) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4656 (20091202) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4656 (20091202) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniverse08%40gma > il.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jimi-law%40dc.rr.c > om > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4656 (20091202) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4656 (20091202) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4656 (20091202) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniverse08%40gma > il.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jimi-law%40dc.rr.c > om > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4656 (20091202) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4656 (20091202) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4656 (20091202) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in sightbb.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.426 / Virus Database: 270.14.91/2541 - Release Date: 12/02/09 19:43:00 _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jimi-law%40dc.rr.c om __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4656 (20091202) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4656 (20091202) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4656 (20091202) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com From b75205 at gmail.com Thu Dec 3 03:44:35 2009 From: b75205 at gmail.com (James Pepper) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 21:44:35 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] state computer system case In-Reply-To: <021f01ca7370$c03b8ce0$40b2a6a0$@com> References: <66954123AD474303BCB4E25041063AC8@D3J75Z91> <20091202023833.rwayne1@nyc.rr.com> <021f01ca7370$c03b8ce0$40b2a6a0$@com> Message-ID: Yes it was Peoplesoft and you are right it is a pain for anyone! I know the state of Texas got the message and they were instituting procedures to check out every accessibility issue since the incident. James From b75205 at gmail.com Thu Dec 3 04:29:56 2009 From: b75205 at gmail.com (James Pepper) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 22:29:56 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] Congrads Ben on passing the bar In-Reply-To: References: <20091201.125747.428.71023@mailpop05.vgs.untd.com> <85DE4073835C47F28015FC74C33ED11D@valtd> <65B1F3660CE04287A5CB73EECD6595A3@none8a46117901> <75A7E3060F8F4054BD7ECE1CB762B66A@D3J75Z91> Message-ID: Ben on the forms. The problem with forms is they use fonts that are too small for OCR software to decode and so you are always going to have problems with scanning them. What I do not understand is how can these documents be legal if you the reciever are made responsible to try to interpret what the sender sent to you. Why is it your responsibility? The smaller fonts are actually not the full font but a cut down version of a font and so they are not valid and the OCR software gets messed up. It is best to rebuild the form to be accessible and I can do that so you can read all of the other content on the page besides what you have written. Actually I am trying to figure out and I could use some help on this from the members of this list, I am trying to figure out which companies to approach with my new format? I developed this after regaining my eyesight and I can lay out PDF files to be accessible where all of the content can be read and you only need a text to speech engine to read the content. It works with JAWS, Window Eyes and Zoom Text and I just had AFB Tech test it, they are the technology division of the American Foundation for the Blind and they called it a "Raising the Floor" technology. So if you all have insights into who can use this, that would be helpful. My format is backwards compatible so people who do not have the latest version of screen readers can access content. And the same document used for the blind can be used for everyone else. I can lay out the LSAT, and I can do this in multiple languages and this process can be encrypted so I can lay out accessible e-books in PDF format capable of being read with Adobe Reader using free screen readers. The font size problem is significant because most government forms use fonts that are only half size, 6 points or 8 points, they are cut down so much that you can barely recognize the font with your eyes let alone with OCR. This is because there isn't enough information being given to distinguish the characters. If you noticed for example you may get a lot of the letter "L" being read to you, that is because the OCR software is not picking up the letters correctly, it is actually breaking up the strokes you make to write the letter. You see this problem when you scan text that is in a box. The sides of the boxes become "L's" and you hear a lot of underscores. The solution is to make the form an electronic form from the start. And the reason you do not have that in PDF format is because Adobe sells this as part of their Livecycle server systems which are very expensive and only the government and big corporations can afford it. So for everyone else you have the situation where you can fill out the form and then you have to scan it to record a copy of it for your records. If you want to change anything you will have to start over again with a new form. You cannot save those files because that function is not enabled in ordinary PDF forms. So you should be demanding that all government offices, agencies and colleges make their content electronic for accessibility so you can use digital signatures, and you can save these files after you sign them so you have a copy on hand to access in the future. And I can lay out these forms so you can access all of the document with free screen readers. Sincerely, James G. Pepper From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Thu Dec 3 07:07:51 2009 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 23:07:51 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel In-Reply-To: References: <20091201.125747.428.71023@mailpop05.vgs.untd.com><85DE4073835C47F28015FC74C33ED11D@valtd><310AF3C9782240EE9AA780A4AD12CEAB@spike> Message-ID: <19C9E95F558047C2943BC90D7FF97592@spike> That's good to know as I think that Carnival was one of the cruise lines that had issues regarding blind travelers several years ago. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc." To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 2:40 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > Chuck, I sell cruises amongst other things I do; mostly on Carnival; they > have been extremely good with all my passengers whether disabled or not. > > I have three groups going out in July and August of 2010, narrowly missed > a chance to get a group out to Alaska. > > Sincerely, > Olusegun > Denver, Colorado > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net From b75205 at gmail.com Thu Dec 3 09:01:06 2009 From: b75205 at gmail.com (James Pepper) Date: Thu, 3 Dec 2009 03:01:06 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel In-Reply-To: <19C9E95F558047C2943BC90D7FF97592@spike> References: <20091201.125747.428.71023@mailpop05.vgs.untd.com> <85DE4073835C47F28015FC74C33ED11D@valtd> <310AF3C9782240EE9AA780A4AD12CEAB@spike> <19C9E95F558047C2943BC90D7FF97592@spike> Message-ID: I always get a skycap to wheel me through Detroit airport because they have this underground walkway between terminals and it has a light show that will induce a migraine in me and would affect anyone who is flash sensitive. You all need to work on this because it is just a terrible thing for those who do not expect it, and you can't go around it, you have to walk this gauntlet. So I have to move through the airport with my hands over my eyes as we go through that gauntlet. I believe I mentioned this when you had the convention in Detroit. James Pepper From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Thu Dec 3 10:25:01 2009 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Thu, 3 Dec 2009 02:25:01 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel In-Reply-To: <939B98E432004FC4BA69464FA4D211B1@screnci.local> References: <20091201.125747.428.71023@mailpop05.vgs.untd.com> <93D426D90E0F47678A7E578E71609E06@screnci.local> <027601ca7393$4693d280$d3bb7780$@com><003B92E643764A4EBC61041B985FF563@screnci.local><02cc01ca73a5$2c438120$84ca8360$@com> <939B98E432004FC4BA69464FA4D211B1@screnci.local> Message-ID: <4961A1C332E64B71811DB7E0451C9EAA@spike> litigating these issues is the only they will learn as it sets a precedent. Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal 1237 P Street Fresno ca 93721 559-266-9237 ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Weisberg" To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 5:28 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > This incident was NOTHING. With my first dog I was asked after taking my > seat if my dog had a "license" to be on the plane. Of course I knew this > was absurd. The stew in this particular case was Asian and it was > apparent > to me (still had some vision at the time) she had some cultural issues > going > on. Anyways, same situation; I ask to speak with the supervisor who > comes > over and backs up his staff. I tell him to blow off (keep in mind I am > litigating in civil court all the time). A short while passes when > several > people obviously from the airline ask me to exit my seat (which by the way > was a bulkhead seat, i.e., in front of all the passengers)and come with > them. They removed me from the plane and took me with my Guide Dog out > into > the breezeway where the airline biggie took out a manual and found a > regulation to show me indicating if I was asked for identification the > service animal was indeed a service animal I was required to produce it. > Unfortunately, once again the staff was untrained and after producing the > "card" issued me by Guide Dogs was let back on the plane to my seat. > Asked > for a license but only really needed to show proof of the fact the dog was > a > service animal. Pathetic. Didn't sue then but vowed I wouldn't be pushed > around in the future. > > James W. Weisberg, Esq. > > Law Office of J. William Weisberg > > 299 South Patencio Road #3 > > Palm Springs, California 92262 > > V: 916.425.1010 > > F: 916.374.7667 > > E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com > > Admitted in Wisconsin > > Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil Rights > Advocacy for Children with Diabetes > > This message contains information which may be confidential and > privileged. > Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), > you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information > contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, > please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from your > system. > > This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client > relationship > nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William > Weisberg > expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in > accordance with this disclaimer. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of WB > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 3:14 PM > To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > > After reading this detail, the earlier e-mails you sent now make sense to > me. > > That's very sad that those attendants were not in line with whatever > training they received. I'm sure they had to have had some and from what > you say, it doesn't seem like they put any of it into practice. > > Has the airline powers that be turned their noses up to your requests for > information on their training program or requests for some type of being > made whole? > > I'm curious as I've never experienced anything to the level of which you > speak. > > Thanks for sharing. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of James Weisberg > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 5:09 PM > To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > > In retrospect it's actually kind of funny although at the time it wasn't. > I > travel with a Guide Dog. So, as it was discussed in this thread, I made > advance arrangements to be seated in the "bulkhead" seat which affords > more > foot space so the dog can be in a position whereby she is not entirely on > my > feet nor the feet of the person next to me. No problem. When I get to > the > airport to check in I get assistance to the gate since the dog has yet to > learn to read much to my consternation. When I get to the gate I check in > and inform the attendant about the Guide Dog and confirm the placement in > the bulkhead seat. At this time I also inquire if the plane is full, > sometimes it is not, as in this instance. I inform the attendant they may > wish to juggle the passengers around and leave the seat next to me empty > so > they do not have a paying passenger with a dog on their legs for the > entire > trip. Never had a problem when put in these terms. I also inform them > the > window seat is necessary to keep the dog from sticking into the isle. So > a > window, bulkhead seat with and empty seat next to me is ideal for me, the > dog, and the passenger who would otherwise be seated next to me. > > Get on the plane and in my window bulk head seat which has been assigned > to > me along with leaving the seat next to me empty which was arranged at the > gate. I am traveling with a cat in a container which I have paid to bring > on the plane and immediately after taking my seat I place the cat > container > in the seat next to me to get "situated." As soon as I am seated I am > confronted by a stew who says I will have to change seats to another row; > non bulkhead. I think it was the cat container b/c the rules I believe > are > it has to be placed under the seat in front of you and a bulkhead seat has > no seat in front of it so . . . On my travels the other way with the cat > six months earlier the container was taken and moved to an appropriate > place > on the plane to the entertainment of the other passengers. Anyways, I > politely inform the stew I cannot move to another row and attempt to > explain > my particular circumstances which make this so. He interrupts me and > starts > to berate me, and here comes the funny part, he actually says to me, "we > have disabled passengers who have paid for these seats (the two next to > me)." Keep in mind I am sitting there with a dog in harness that says > "Guide Dogs for the Blind." This guy is a real genius. I just tell him > after that to het his supervisor. The sup shows and gives me the same > routine stating there is an entire empty row in the rear of the plane > (where > of course only I would be inconvenienced without a place for MY feet). So > instead of moving the passengers across the isle in the bulkhead row to > the > empty row of seats and allowing the other disabled passengers to take the > bulk head across the row from me they instead stuck a nice old woman and > her > daughter next to me (nobody disabled) and this nice woman took it in > stride > with grace and dealt with a dog on her feet for four plus hours. > > The humiliation comes from, if not obvious, having my disability pointed > out > to all on the plane who hadn't already noticed in a demeaning manner > (which > would not have occurred but for the disability)thereafter followed up by > their non accommodating my request to me indicates indifference to the > needs > of those similarly situated as I when traveling. Seems like the airline I > refer is in need of some modification to their training. I think I may > help > them out toward that end. > > James W. Weisberg, Esq. > > Law Office of J. William Weisberg > > 299 South Patencio Road #3 > > Palm Springs, California 92262 > > V: 916.425.1010 > > F: 916.374.7667 > > E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com > > Admitted in Wisconsin > > Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil Rights > Advocacy for Children with Diabetes > > This message contains information which may be confidential and > privileged. > Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), > you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information > contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, > please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from your > system. > > This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client > relationship > nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William > Weisberg > expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in > accordance with this disclaimer. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of WB > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 1:06 PM > To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > > Well, exactly how wer you marginalized is what the question is I think. > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of James Weisberg > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 2:40 PM > To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > > being marginalized because of something (my case disability)in front of a > plane full of passengers is humiliating. No? > > James W. Weisberg, Esq. > > Law Office of J. William Weisberg > > 299 South Patencio Road #3 > > Palm Springs, California 92262 > > V: 916.425.1010 > > F: 916.374.7667 > > E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com > > Admitted in Wisconsin > > Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil Rights > Advocacy for Children with Diabetes > > This message contains information which may be confidential and > privileged. > Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), > you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information > contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, > please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from your > system. > > This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client > relationship > nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William > Weisberg > expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in > accordance with this disclaimer. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 11:19 AM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > > In your opinion, how were you humiliated? > Steve > Steve > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "James Weisberg" > To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 1:01 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > > >> As the original poster of this thread I wanted to point out the reason >> for >> my inquiry was not related to accommodations but rather being publicly >> humiliated by air carrier staff (stew) which of course is a common >> carrier >> and that's a big "no no." Since the humiliation was based upon the >> presence >> of a guide dog the ADA first came to mind. >> >> >> >> Finally, Ben you rock dude!! >> >> >> James W. Weisberg, Esq. >> >> Law Office of J. William Weisberg >> >> 299 South Patencio Road #3 >> >> Palm Springs, California 92262 >> >> V: 916.425.1010 >> >> F: 916.374.7667 >> >> E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com >> >> Admitted in Wisconsin >> >> Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil Rights >> Advocacy for Children with Diabetes >> >> This message contains information which may be confidential and >> privileged. >> Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the >> addressee), >> you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any >> information >> contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, >> please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from your >> system. >> >> This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client >> relationship >> nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William >> Weisberg >> expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in >> accordance with this disclaimer. >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf Of stiehm.law >> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 12:58 PM >> To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> Cc: blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel >> >> In addition to the airlines, I have recently become curious as to what if >> any, accommodations for the TSA makes with respect to disabled people >> going through security and being picked up by somebody at the gate at the >> terminal at the other end of the flight. For example, do they permit a >> blind person who is traveling alone to be accompanied through security, >> down to the airline check-in counter at the gate by a non-ticketed >> person. >> >> At the other end, is a non-ticketed person permitted through security to >> go to the gate to meet a blind person flying alone? >> >> If TSA does not provide for such accommodations do the airlines take it >> on themselves to provide this service? >> >> Has anybody had any experience in this regard? Is the accommodation, if >> any, voluntary on the part of the TSA and/or the airlines or is it >> governed by regulation? >> >> Patrick H. Stiehm >> Stiehm Law Office >> Alexandria, VA 22309 >> 703-360-1089 (Voice) >> 703-935-8266 (Fax) >> >> >> >> Tue, 1 Dec 2009 11:30:37 -0800 "Russell J. Thomas, Jr." >> writes: >>> Off the top of my head, and without any new research, the only case >>> I >>> remember is a case challenging the accessibility of airline websites >>> with >>> respect to attempting to make reservations and ordering tickets on >>> line. >>> >>> I also think that there are regulations on the subject, especially >>> dealing >>> with how disabled passengers are to be treated (or perhaps on some >>> occasions >>> mistreated). >>> >>> I often thought it would be a good idea for the NFB to put together >>> a short >>> guide book concerning travel, including air travel, based upon >>> experiences >>> of NFB members, to be used as a reference guide for blind people who >>> use air >>> travel. Certainly things have changed since 911--some changes for >>> the good, >>> and others not so good. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Respectfully, >>> >>> >>> >>> Russell J. Thomas, Jr. >>> >>> THOMAS & ASSOCIATES >>> >>> www.californiaemployersattorneys.com >>> >>> >>> >>> Orange County Office >>> >>> 4121 Westerly Place, Suite 101 >>> >>> Newport Beach, California 92660 >>> >>> T: (949) 752-0101 >>> >>> F: (949) 257-4756 >>> >>> M: (949) 466-7238 >>> >>> >>> >>> Beverly Hills Office >>> >>> 9107 Wilshire Boulevard, Suite 450 >>> >>> Beverly Hills, California 90210 >>> >>> T: (310) 461-3561 >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>> Behalf Of James Weisberg >>> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 10:01 AM >>> To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' >>> Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel >>> >>> Hi Folks: >>> >>> >>> >>> Anyone on the lists have experience or knowledge regarding the ADA >>> and suits >>> against air carriers for violations available for quick consult? >>> Thanks. >>> >>> >>> >>> James W. Weisberg, Esq. >>> >>> Law Office of J. William Weisberg >>> >>> 299 South Patencio Road #3 >>> >>> Palm Springs, California 92262 >>> >>> V: 916.425.1010 >>> >>> F: 916.374.7667 >>> >>> E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com >>> >>> Admitted in Wisconsin >>> >>> Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil >>> Rights >>> Advocacy for Children with Diabetes >>> >>> This message contains information which may be confidential and >>> privileged. >>> Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the >>> addressee), >>> you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any >>> information >>> contained in this message. If you have received this message in >>> error, >>> please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from >>> your >>> system. >>> >>> This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client >>> relationship >>> nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William >>> Weisberg >>> expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information >>> in >>> accordance with this disclaimer. >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> blindlaw: >>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rthomas%40rjtla >> wfi >>> rm.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for blindlaw: >>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stiehm.law%40ju >> no.com >>> >> >> ____________________________________________________________ >> Hotel >> Hotel pics, info and virtual tours. Click here to book a hotel online. >> > http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/c?cp=ewJKbyZ61QloDsW_i_oQ_wAAJ1BdRO >> y9vkzpR6E_Fj7jZTbnAAYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAATRAAAAAA= >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jimi-law%40dc.rr.c >> om >> >> __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus >> signature >> database 4652 (20091201) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus >> signature >> database 4652 (20091201) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus >> signature >> database 4653 (20091201) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus >> signature >> database 4655 (20091202) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus >> signature >> database 4655 (20091202) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in > sightbb.com > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.426 / Virus Database: 270.14.90/2540 - Release Date: 12/02/09 > 07:33:00 > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jimi-law%40dc.rr.c > om > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4656 (20091202) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4656 (20091202) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4656 (20091202) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniverse08%40gma > il.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jimi-law%40dc.rr.c > om > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4656 (20091202) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4656 (20091202) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4656 (20091202) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniverse08%40gma > il.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jimi-law%40dc.rr.c > om > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4656 (20091202) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4656 (20091202) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4656 (20091202) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net From jimi-law at dc.rr.com Thu Dec 3 10:40:51 2009 From: jimi-law at dc.rr.com (James Weisberg) Date: Thu, 3 Dec 2009 02:40:51 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel In-Reply-To: References: <20091201.125747.428.71023@mailpop05.vgs.untd.com><85DE4073835C47F28015FC74C33ED11D@valtd><310AF3C9782240EE9AA780A4AD12CEAB@spike><19C9E95F558047C2943BC90D7FF97592@spike> Message-ID: <8EB2FF1BE24A49EABE16A577652149D7@screnci.local> As a former escapee of Detroit. . . I mean product of the Detroit public school system (might go along way in explaining my lack of a HS Diploma -- another story) I'd have to surmise this was strategically planned. James W. Weisberg, Esq. Law Office of J. William Weisberg 299 South Patencio Road #3 Palm Springs, California 92262 V: 916.425.1010 F: 916.374.7667 E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com Admitted in Wisconsin Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil Rights Advocacy for Children with Diabetes This message contains information which may be confidential and privileged. Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from your system. This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client relationship nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William Weisberg expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in accordance with this disclaimer. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of James Pepper Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 1:01 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel I always get a skycap to wheel me through Detroit airport because they have this underground walkway between terminals and it has a light show that will induce a migraine in me and would affect anyone who is flash sensitive. You all need to work on this because it is just a terrible thing for those who do not expect it, and you can't go around it, you have to walk this gauntlet. So I have to move through the airport with my hands over my eyes as we go through that gauntlet. I believe I mentioned this when you had the convention in Detroit. James Pepper _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jimi-law%40dc.rr.c om __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4656 (20091202) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4656 (20091202) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4656 (20091202) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Thu Dec 3 11:26:19 2009 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Thu, 3 Dec 2009 03:26:19 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel In-Reply-To: References: <20091201.125747.428.71023@mailpop05.vgs.untd.com><85DE4073835C47F28015FC74C33ED11D@valtd><310AF3C9782240EE9AA780A4AD12CEAB@spike><19C9E95F558047C2943BC90D7FF97592@spike> Message-ID: <09B7AC0886A54DA68BC6900D4FA6EAB0@spike> That would make an interesting ADA complaint regarding public access, I would think. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Pepper" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 1:01 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel >I always get a skycap to wheel me through Detroit airport because they have > this underground walkway between terminals and it has a light show that > will > induce a migraine in me and would affect anyone who is flash sensitive. > You > all need to work on this because it is just a terrible thing for those who > do not expect it, and you can't go around it, you have to walk this > gauntlet. So I have to move through the airport with my hands over my eyes > as we go through that gauntlet. > > I believe I mentioned this when you had the convention in Detroit. > > James Pepper > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Thu Dec 3 11:32:48 2009 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Thu, 3 Dec 2009 03:32:48 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel In-Reply-To: <8EB2FF1BE24A49EABE16A577652149D7@screnci.local> References: <20091201.125747.428.71023@mailpop05.vgs.untd.com><85DE4073835C47F28015FC74C33ED11D@valtd><310AF3C9782240EE9AA780A4AD12CEAB@spike><19C9E95F558047C2943BC90D7FF97592@spike> <8EB2FF1BE24A49EABE16A577652149D7@screnci.local> Message-ID: <42FC529EB7E54EBF9404A453C5A09462@spike> I'm glad to know that I'm not the only escapee from Michigan on this list growing up in Grand Rapids and living in Ann Arbor for several years before moving to California in the mid-80's. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Weisberg" To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 2:40 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > As a former escapee of Detroit. . . I mean product of the Detroit public > school system (might go along way in explaining my lack of a HS > iploma -- > another story) I'd have to surmise this was strategically planned. > > James W. Weisberg, Esq. > > Law Office of J. William Weisberg > > 299 South Patencio Road #3 > > Palm Springs, California 92262 > > V: 916.425.1010 > > F: 916.374.7667 > > E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com > > Admitted in Wisconsin > > Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil Rights > Advocacy for Children with Diabetes > > This message contains information which may be confidential and > privileged. > Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), > you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information > contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, > please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from your > system. > > This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client > relationship > nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William > Weisberg > expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in > accordance with this disclaimer. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of James Pepper > Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 1:01 AM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > > I always get a skycap to wheel me through Detroit airport because they > have > this underground walkway between terminals and it has a light show that > will > induce a migraine in me and would affect anyone who is flash sensitive. > You > all need to work on this because it is just a terrible thing for those who > do not expect it, and you can't go around it, you have to walk this > gauntlet. So I have to move through the airport with my hands over my eyes > as we go through that gauntlet. > > I believe I mentioned this when you had the convention in Detroit. > > James Pepper > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jimi-law%40dc.rr.c > om > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4656 (20091202) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4656 (20091202) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4656 (20091202) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net From stevep.deeley at insightbb.com Thu Dec 3 12:32:18 2009 From: stevep.deeley at insightbb.com (Steve P. Deeley) Date: Thu, 3 Dec 2009 07:32:18 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel In-Reply-To: <19C9E95F558047C2943BC90D7FF97592@spike> References: <20091201.125747.428.71023@mailpop05.vgs.untd.com> <85DE4073835C47F28015FC74C33ED11D@valtd> <310AF3C9782240EE9AA780A4AD12CEAB@spike> <19C9E95F558047C2943BC90D7FF97592@spike> Message-ID: <79A12D04AC5E45CD85D66B3837E56F45@StevePC> These issues should be mediated prior to litigation. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 2:07 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > That's good to know as I think that Carnival was one of the cruise lines > that had issues regarding blind travelers several years ago. > Chuck > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc." > > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 2:40 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > > >> Chuck, I sell cruises amongst other things I do; mostly on Carnival; they >> have been extremely good with all my passengers whether disabled or not. >> >> I have three groups going out in July and August of 2010, narrowly missed >> a chance to get a group out to Alaska. >> >> Sincerely, >> Olusegun >> Denver, Colorado >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.426 / Virus Database: 270.14.91/2541 - Release Date: 12/02/09 19:43:00 From AZNOR99 at aol.com Thu Dec 3 13:55:58 2009 From: AZNOR99 at aol.com (AZNOR99 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 3 Dec 2009 08:55:58 EST Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel Message-ID: A couple of my blind friends and I are avid cruisers - we try to go at least once a year, and Carnival is our cruiseline of choice. In 2007, they refused to allow us to sign up for a scuba diving excursion because of our blindness - they said we'd be dangerous to other scuba divers. This was absurd for all the obvious reasons and because we're all strong swimmers and most of us are accomplished scuba divers. Carnival said that since they contract with local venders to provide the excursions, and since those venders aren't in the United States, then the ADA does not apply. We tried to educate the cruise line, and I think they got it. But the scuba diving contract holder did not and would not let us participate no matter what we said. I wish we'd have fought harder. That same year, we had a lot of trouble getting the onboard materials in Braille or electronic formatting. We followed up with Corporate, and by the time we arrived for our 2008 cruise, everything had been sorted out to our liking in terms of materials. They now will send you a CD with menus, guide books, and all the other material that's in the state room, and they'll either Braille out the daily newsletter or put it on a flash drive for you. In terms of excursions, we just always find an outside vender ourselves now. We can discuss blindness beforehand if we want, and we end up not feeling beholden to the cruiseline for our fun off-ship. And we save a lot of money in the process. My point is that I'm not sure if the cruiselines are all totally accessible now, but I think Carnival is doing a much better job then it used to do. Also, I have no idea if the contracting venders in the ports are discriminating against blind people - I bet they still are. Ronza In a message dated 12/3/2009 2:36:49 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, ckrugman at sbcglobal.net writes: That's good to know as I think that Carnival was one of the cruise lines that had issues regarding blind travelers several years ago. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc." To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 2:40 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > Chuck, I sell cruises amongst other things I do; mostly on Carnival; they > have been extremely good with all my passengers whether disabled or not. > > I have three groups going out in July and August of 2010, narrowly missed > a chance to get a group out to Alaska. > > Sincerely, > Olusegun > Denver, Colorado > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/aznor99%40aol.com From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Thu Dec 3 23:22:47 2009 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Thu, 3 Dec 2009 15:22:47 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel In-Reply-To: <79A12D04AC5E45CD85D66B3837E56F45@StevePC> References: <20091201.125747.428.71023@mailpop05.vgs.untd.com><85DE4073835C47F28015FC74C33ED11D@valtd><310AF3C9782240EE9AA780A4AD12CEAB@spike><19C9E95F558047C2943BC90D7FF97592@spike> <79A12D04AC5E45CD85D66B3837E56F45@StevePC> Message-ID: Courts generally require all issues to be mediated prior to being litigated or as part of the process. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. Deeley" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 4:32 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > These issues should be mediated prior to litigation. > Steve > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 2:07 AM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > > >> That's good to know as I think that Carnival was one of the cruise lines >> that had issues regarding blind travelers several years ago. >> Chuck >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc." >> >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 2:40 PM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel >> >> >>> Chuck, I sell cruises amongst other things I do; mostly on Carnival; >>> they >>> have been extremely good with all my passengers whether disabled or not. >>> >>> I have three groups going out in July and August of 2010, narrowly >>> missed >>> a chance to get a group out to Alaska. >>> >>> Sincerely, >>> Olusegun >>> Denver, Colorado >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.426 / Virus Database: 270.14.91/2541 - Release Date: 12/02/09 > 19:43:00 > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net From cdanielsen8 at aol.com Fri Dec 4 00:08:36 2009 From: cdanielsen8 at aol.com (Chris Danielsen) Date: Thu, 3 Dec 2009 19:08:36 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4AB1D9B2FD1142EC9CAFDEFD47ACA108@Scorpio13> Interesting observations about Carnival. When I went on the cruise that was organized by the NFB of Colorado in March, we had all of the Braille materials in our cabins. Our waiter was very nice about reading the menus each evening, even though he didn't speak English that well. I will definitely ask for the menus on CD next time. Also, I wasn't aware there was any way to get the daily newsletter, so I'll be sure to ask about that the next time I go. And I do intend to cruise again. When I was booking tours, the guy at the desk casually informed me that he would let the tour providers know that I was blind. This raised a red flag with me and I asked him why. He said it was to make sure that the providers could accommodate and that there would be no access issues. I explained that blind people have very few "access issues" and that he was giving the providers an opportunity to discriminate. I probed him a little on whether he thought there were certain things a blind guest couldn't do. He informed me that he had seen blind guests participate in all kinds of activities, I think he specifically mentioned cliff diving, and was not trying to discriminate. I let it go. None of the providers I did tours with gave me or any of the other NFB folks any problems, and I did not hear from other NFB friends about any problems. Of course, the tours I went on were not particularly strenuous; I am a wimp. I had some concerns about the dolphin encounter, but that went fine. In fact, the trainer even made a point of letting me and a friend touch the dolphin's teeth while he held her mouth open (they normally discourage folks from touching the mouth.) He didn't let us touch the nose or blowhole, which are off limits. I plan to try swimming with dolphins next time; the dolphin encounter is when you are on a shallow platform and the dolphin swims up to you. All of the Carnival folks were extremely friendly and I think they were trying to do the right thing. I came away with a mostly favorable impression of the company, although it still concerns me that they "flag" disabled guests even if they really are doing it only to make sure that the guest has a good experience. I am sure that some contractors do discriminate, and while Carnival is of course protecting itself, I wonder if they have a legal point. Other countries do not necessarily have the disability laws that we do in the USA, and once you are on shore at a foreign port of call I am not sure U.S. law would "reach" businesses there. It reaches foreign cruise lines only because their ships have ports of call in the U.S., if I understand the law correctly. Carnival could make a point of not contracting with vendors who discriminate, however, and that would make a difference. Chris -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of AZNOR99 at aol.com Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 8:56 AM To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel A couple of my blind friends and I are avid cruisers - we try to go at least once a year, and Carnival is our cruiseline of choice. In 2007, they refused to allow us to sign up for a scuba diving excursion because of our blindness - they said we'd be dangerous to other scuba divers. This was absurd for all the obvious reasons and because we're all strong swimmers and most of us are accomplished scuba divers. Carnival said that since they contract with local venders to provide the excursions, and since those venders aren't in the United States, then the ADA does not apply. We tried to educate the cruise line, and I think they got it. But the scuba diving contract holder did not and would not let us participate no matter what we said. I wish we'd have fought harder. That same year, we had a lot of trouble getting the onboard materials in Braille or electronic formatting. We followed up with Corporate, and by the time we arrived for our 2008 cruise, everything had been sorted out to our liking in terms of materials. They now will send you a CD with menus, guide books, and all the other material that's in the state room, and they'll either Braille out the daily newsletter or put it on a flash drive for you. In terms of excursions, we just always find an outside vender ourselves now. We can discuss blindness beforehand if we want, and we end up not feeling beholden to the cruiseline for our fun off-ship. And we save a lot of money in the process. My point is that I'm not sure if the cruiselines are all totally accessible now, but I think Carnival is doing a much better job then it used to do. Also, I have no idea if the contracting venders in the ports are discriminating against blind people - I bet they still are. Ronza In a message dated 12/3/2009 2:36:49 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, ckrugman at sbcglobal.net writes: That's good to know as I think that Carnival was one of the cruise lines that had issues regarding blind travelers several years ago. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc." To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 2:40 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > Chuck, I sell cruises amongst other things I do; mostly on Carnival; they > have been extremely good with all my passengers whether disabled or not. > > I have three groups going out in July and August of 2010, narrowly missed > a chance to get a group out to Alaska. > > Sincerely, > Olusegun > Denver, Colorado > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob al.net _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/aznor99%40aol.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4658 (20091203) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4659 (20091203) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From stevep.deeley at insightbb.com Fri Dec 4 00:51:34 2009 From: stevep.deeley at insightbb.com (Steve P. Deeley) Date: Thu, 3 Dec 2009 19:51:34 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel In-Reply-To: <4AB1D9B2FD1142EC9CAFDEFD47ACA108@Scorpio13> References: <4AB1D9B2FD1142EC9CAFDEFD47ACA108@Scorpio13> Message-ID: <4B8F57570DE6486A93743958EB603CAC@StevePC> That is very interesting. How did you navigate around an unfamiliar large ship? Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Danielsen" To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 7:08 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > Interesting observations about Carnival. When I went on the cruise that > was > organized by the NFB of Colorado in March, we had all of the Braille > materials in our cabins. Our waiter was very nice about reading the menus > each evening, even though he didn't speak English that well. I will > definitely ask for the menus on CD next time. Also, I wasn't aware there > was > any way to get the daily newsletter, so I'll be sure to ask about that the > next time I go. And I do intend to cruise again. When I was booking tours, > the guy at the desk casually informed me that he would let the tour > providers know that I was blind. This raised a red flag with me and I > asked > him why. He said it was to make sure that the providers could accommodate > and that there would be no access issues. I explained that blind people > have > very few "access issues" and that he was giving the providers an > opportunity > to discriminate. I probed him a little on whether he thought there were > certain things a blind guest couldn't do. He informed me that he had seen > blind guests participate in all kinds of activities, I think he > specifically > mentioned cliff diving, and was not trying to discriminate. I let it go. > None of the providers I did tours with gave me or any of the other NFB > folks > any problems, and I did not hear from other NFB friends about any > problems. > Of course, the tours I went on were not particularly strenuous; I am a > wimp. > I had some concerns about the dolphin encounter, but that went fine. In > fact, the trainer even made a point of letting me and a friend touch the > dolphin's teeth while he held her mouth open (they normally discourage > folks > from touching the mouth.) He didn't let us touch the nose or blowhole, > which > are off limits. I plan to try swimming with dolphins next time; the > dolphin > encounter is when you are on a shallow platform and the dolphin swims up > to > you. All of the Carnival folks were extremely friendly and I think they > were > trying to do the right thing. I came away with a mostly favorable > impression > of the company, although it still concerns me that they "flag" disabled > guests even if they really are doing it only to make sure that the guest > has > a good experience. I am sure that some contractors do discriminate, and > while Carnival is of course protecting itself, I wonder if they have a > legal > point. Other countries do not necessarily have the disability laws that we > do in the USA, and once you are on shore at a foreign port of call I am > not > sure U.S. law would "reach" businesses there. It reaches foreign cruise > lines only because their ships have ports of call in the U.S., if I > understand the law correctly. Carnival could make a point of not > contracting > with vendors who discriminate, however, and that would make a difference. > > Chris > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of AZNOR99 at aol.com > Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 8:56 AM > To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > > A couple of my blind friends and I are avid cruisers - we try to go at > least > once a year, and Carnival is our cruiseline of choice. In 2007, they > refused to allow us to sign up for a scuba diving excursion because of our > blindness - they said we'd be dangerous to other scuba divers. This was > absurd for all the obvious reasons and because we're all strong swimmers > and most of us are accomplished scuba divers. Carnival said that since > they contract with local venders to provide the excursions, and since > those > venders aren't in the United States, then the ADA does not apply. We > tried > to educate the cruise line, and I think they got it. But the scuba diving > contract holder did not and would not let us participate no matter what we > said. > I wish we'd have fought harder. > > That same year, we had a lot of trouble getting the onboard materials in > Braille or electronic formatting. We followed up with Corporate, and by > the time we arrived for our 2008 cruise, everything had been sorted out to > our liking in terms of materials. They now will send you a CD with menus, > guide books, and all the other material that's in the state room, and > they'll either Braille out the daily newsletter or put it on a flash drive > for you. > > In terms of excursions, we just always find an outside vender ourselves > now. > We can discuss blindness beforehand if we want, and we end up not feeling > beholden to the cruiseline for our fun off-ship. And we save a lot of > money in the process. > > My point is that I'm not sure if the cruiselines are all totally > accessible > now, but I think Carnival is doing a much better job then it used to do. > Also, I have no idea if the contracting venders in the ports are > discriminating against blind people - I bet they still are. > > Ronza > > > > In a message dated 12/3/2009 2:36:49 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, > ckrugman at sbcglobal.net writes: > > That's good to know as I think that Carnival was one of the cruise lines > that had issues regarding blind travelers several years ago. > Chuck > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc." > > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 2:40 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > > >> Chuck, I sell cruises amongst other things I do; mostly on Carnival; > they >> have been extremely good with all my passengers whether disabled or not. >> >> I have three groups going out in July and August of 2010, narrowly > missed >> a chance to get a group out to Alaska. >> >> Sincerely, >> Olusegun >> Denver, Colorado >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob > al.net > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/aznor99%40aol.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. > com > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature > database 4658 (20091203) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature > database 4659 (20091203) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.426 / Virus Database: 270.14.92/2543 - Release Date: 12/03/09 19:36:00 From stevep.deeley at insightbb.com Fri Dec 4 00:52:03 2009 From: stevep.deeley at insightbb.com (Steve P. Deeley) Date: Thu, 3 Dec 2009 19:52:03 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel In-Reply-To: References: <20091201.125747.428.71023@mailpop05.vgs.untd.com> <85DE4073835C47F28015FC74C33ED11D@valtd> <310AF3C9782240EE9AA780A4AD12CEAB@spike> <19C9E95F558047C2943BC90D7FF97592@spike> <79A12D04AC5E45CD85D66B3837E56F45@StevePC> Message-ID: <38794818698C44979350ED0A23FF344D@StevePC> good ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 6:22 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > Courts generally require all issues to be mediated prior to being > litigated > or as part of the process. > Chuck > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Steve P. Deeley" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 4:32 AM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > > >> These issues should be mediated prior to litigation. >> Steve >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 2:07 AM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel >> >> >>> That's good to know as I think that Carnival was one of the cruise lines >>> that had issues regarding blind travelers several years ago. >>> Chuck >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc." >>> >>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>> Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 2:40 PM >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel >>> >>> >>>> Chuck, I sell cruises amongst other things I do; mostly on Carnival; >>>> they >>>> have been extremely good with all my passengers whether disabled or >>>> not. >>>> >>>> I have three groups going out in July and August of 2010, narrowly >>>> missed >>>> a chance to get a group out to Alaska. >>>> >>>> Sincerely, >>>> Olusegun >>>> Denver, Colorado >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 8.5.426 / Virus Database: 270.14.91/2541 - Release Date: >> 12/02/09 >> 19:43:00 >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.426 / Virus Database: 270.14.92/2543 - Release Date: 12/03/09 19:36:00 From almomani at optonline.net Fri Dec 4 01:39:41 2009 From: almomani at optonline.net (Mudhaffer Al-Momani) Date: Thu, 03 Dec 2009 20:39:41 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel References: <20091201.125747.428.71023@mailpop05.vgs.untd.com> <85DE4073835C47F28015FC74C33ED11D@valtd> <310AF3C9782240EE9AA780A4AD12CEAB@spike> <19C9E95F558047C2943BC90D7FF97592@spike> <79A12D04AC5E45CD85D66B3837E56F45@StevePC> <38794818698C44979350ED0A23FF344D@StevePC> Message-ID: <1DD1F232DA1B41D8ABB164FF39CAB6D0@FJP7MG1> Hi All, I just want to say that just last week I went to New Zealand from New York and I took Qantas airlines. All I had to say is I am visually impaired and I need meet and assist and from the check desc in JFK to L A international and from L A to Auckland in NZ and 2 more planes locally in NZ so that is 4 airplanes each way I was treated like a king inside the airports and inside the planes and they helped me every step of the way both ways. I tell you guys and gals the service was unlike anything I have ever seen or heard or even imagined. they would come get me from inside the plane and did everything from security to check points to customes to getting my bags to even handing me to the people that were waiting for me, they never left my side for a second I am just amazed. I just wanted to share that with you all. Have happy holidays. Mudhaffer ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. Deeley" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 7:52 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > good > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 6:22 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > > >> Courts generally require all issues to be mediated prior to being >> litigated >> or as part of the process. >> Chuck >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Steve P. Deeley" >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 4:32 AM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel >> >> >>> These issues should be mediated prior to litigation. >>> Steve >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: >>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>> Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 2:07 AM >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel >>> >>> >>>> That's good to know as I think that Carnival was one of the cruise >>>> lines >>>> that had issues regarding blind travelers several years ago. >>>> Chuck >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc." >>>> >>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 2:40 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel >>>> >>>> >>>>> Chuck, I sell cruises amongst other things I do; mostly on Carnival; >>>>> they >>>>> have been extremely good with all my passengers whether disabled or >>>>> not. >>>>> >>>>> I have three groups going out in July and August of 2010, narrowly >>>>> missed >>>>> a chance to get a group out to Alaska. >>>>> >>>>> Sincerely, >>>>> Olusegun >>>>> Denver, Colorado >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> blindlaw: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com >>> >>> >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> >>> >>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>> Version: 8.5.426 / Virus Database: 270.14.91/2541 - Release Date: >>> 12/02/09 >>> 19:43:00 >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.426 / Virus Database: 270.14.92/2543 - Release Date: 12/03/09 > 19:36:00 > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/almomani%40optonline.net > From mildredrivera at yahoo.com Fri Dec 4 03:19:14 2009 From: mildredrivera at yahoo.com (Millie Rivera-Rau) Date: Thu, 3 Dec 2009 19:19:14 -0800 (PST) Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel / Canes In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <368035.91609.qm@web33006.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I have a question. Lately my long white cane has been taken from me after I get on the plane. Sometimes I can convince the personnel that I should be permitted to keep it but other times I am not successful. Is there something that I can site that would get through to them? Or, am I required to relinquish it? For some reason it has been a problem more in the last two years then ever before. I push it to a point just after making a scene. smile. The thing that really gets me is that they want to put it in an overhead bin and usually it falls out as soon as the bin is opened and hits someone on the head! Then the other passengers realize I was right. Any thoughts.   Millie   --- On Wed, 12/2/09, AZNOR99 at aol.com wrote: From: AZNOR99 at aol.com Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org Date: Wednesday, December 2, 2009, 12:24 PM Hello, This is an interesting subject.  TSA is generally not  responsible for providing a traveler with a guide as a passenger goes  through screening.  You can always request a Companion Pass from the  airline for someone to accompany you; however, it is at the discretion of the  airline as to whether or not they grant this request.  Most do grant the  Pass as long as you give them a valid reason, and most accept accompanying a  minor or passenger with a disability or elderly individual as a valid  reason.  You can request a Companion Pass from the airline at the time of  check-in if you bring someone with you to drop you off - you don't necessarily  have to let the airline know in advance that you plan to do this.  If you  want someone to meet you at the gate when you arrive though, you'll need to let  the airline know in advance.  This is because you won't actually be with  the person when they obtain the Companion Pass, so the airline can't verify that  they know you or that you'd want them to pick you up.  Companions are  subject to the same screening and security measures as passengers - valid State  or Federal ID, human and belonging scans, etc.  TSA does not have  jurisdiction over Companion Pass issuance - that is at the discretion of the  airlines - they are subject to the regs of the FAA. You can ask for a Guide at the airport as well.  Generally airlines  prefer you do this in advance, but you can certainly choose to make such a  request when you arrive at the airport or land at your destination.  If you  don't let them know you need someone in advance though, you might have to wait  longer for someone to arrive, as airlines try to have staff waiting for  passengers  about whom they know. We've all seen the line of wheel chairs  and uniformed staff waiting when we deplane?  Well, they're each usually  assigned to a particular person, and they usually know who that person is ahead  of time.  Airlines, and sometimes airports, are increasingly creating  "Passenger Assistance Departments," and escorting passengers is one of their  primary functions. There are some airports that utilize the airport police or other airport  staff as escorts rather than airline personnel.  Sometimes this is because  it is incredibly difficult to credential staff for all areas of an airport,  which such staff need to possess.  Sometimes it may be a small airport, and  it would be more efficient to assign escort responsibilities to one person for  all the airlines.  Or there might be other reasons.  However, TSOs - Transportation Security Officers) are trained in how to  interact with disabled passengers.  For example, if you place your cane on  the conveyer belt, a TSO may offer to position you prior to entering the human scanner and reach out to hold your hands to guide you forward.  Due to the nature of the scanning equipment, a passenger must not touch the scanning  machine - it will not function properly if anything comes into contact with it.  Some of us have had the experience of bumping the machine and setting it off in the past. If you run your cane through the baggage scanner and ask for it back to  take through the human scanner, you have to be very careful, once again, not to  tap the scanner walls with the cane - it will likely set the machine off.   Also, if your cane has metal - many of us use metal tips - then it may cause the  scanner to go off, necessitating the individual be referred to secondary  screening or wanding. I've personally had the experience of placing my cane on the baggage  scanning belt and walking toward the human scanner.  I walked through the  scanner very slowly and did not set it off.  However, I was referred to  secondary.  I always ask why I'm being referred to Secondary (I'm in the  business of wanting to know if I'm being discriminated against because of my  religion, national origin, or disability).  The answer I usually get (not  always though, and I've got some funny stories about other times) is "it's  random."  I conveyed to the TSO that I could not move to the secondary  screening area until someone retrieved my cane from the conveyer belt.  He  got it for me and asked, "Oh, is the reason you moved so slowly through the  scanner because you are blind?" I answered that it was, and he told me I was  free to go. I insisted on going to Secondary, and he said, "Well you don't  need to. Your behavior isn't suspicious. I just thought it was because I didn't  know you were being careful not to bump the machine since you couldn't see  well."  Part of their jobs as TSOs is to monitor suspicious behavior; part  of my job is to convey the difference between suspicious behavior and cultural  norms.  Needless to say I insisted on going to Secondary because I wanted  the chance to talk the issue through with the TSO. It was a teachable moment,  and I think he really got there could be hundreds of reasons why someone might  move slowly through a machine. But for those that have had really bad experiences at TSA or CBP  checkpoints, there are a couple of different avenues you can take.  If you  believe you have been the subject of discrimination, you may file a CRCL (DHS  Office for Civil Rights and Civil Liberties - and where I work) complaint.   Go to _www.dhs.gov/civilliberties_ (http://www.dhs.gov/civilliberties)   to download the form or send an email to _civil.liberties at dhs.gov_ (mailto:civil.liberties at dhs.gov)  explaining  what happened.  Please be sure to give as much detail as possible,  including the date, airport name, terminal number, time of day, the name of  anyone you obtain, and a narrative explaining what happened.  If you have a  customer service issue - for example a TSO was rude or dismissive, you may ask  for a supervisor, a comment card, or both.  You can also contact your local  field office after the fact to convey what happened. My message is substantially longer than I intended, and I apologize for the length. Regards, Ronza In a message dated 12/2/2009 4:25:21 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,  ckrugman at sbcglobal.net writes: I travel  frequently alone and the air lines and/or HSA provide needed assistence  upon my request. including through security check points and picking up  baggage and assistence with procuring ground transportation or to a  waiting party. I have found HSA and airport staff to be very  cooperative. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "stiehm.law"  To: Cc:  Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 12:57  PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > In addition  to the airlines, I have recently become curious as to what if > any,  accommodations for the TSA makes with respect to disabled people > going  through security and being picked up by somebody at the gate at the >  terminal at the other end of the flight. For example, do they permit a >  blind person who is traveling alone to be accompanied through  security, > down to the airline check-in counter at the gate by a  non-ticketed > person. > > At the other end, is a  non-ticketed person permitted through security to > go to the gate to  meet a blind person flying alone? > > If TSA does not provide for  such accommodations do the airlines take it > on themselves to provide  this service? > > Has anybody had any experience in this regard?  Is the accommodation, if > any, voluntary on the part of the TSA and/or  the airlines or is it > governed by regulation? > > Patrick  H. Stiehm > Stiehm Law Office > Alexandria, VA 22309 >  703-360-1089 (Voice) > 703-935-8266  (Fax) > > > > Tue, 1 Dec 2009 11:30:37 -0800 "Russell  J. Thomas, Jr." > writes: >> Off  the top of my head, and without any new research, the only case >>  I >> remember is a case challenging the accessibility of airline  websites >> with >> respect to attempting to make  reservations and ordering tickets on >> line. >> >>  I also think that there are regulations on the subject, especially >>  dealing >> with how disabled passengers are to be treated (or perhaps  on some >> occasions >> mistreated). >> >>  I often thought it would be a good idea for the NFB to put  together >> a short >> guide book concerning travel,  including air travel, based upon >> experiences >> of NFB  members, to be used as a reference guide for blind people who >> use  air >> travel.  Certainly things have changed since 911--some  changes for >> the good, >> and others not so  good. >> >> >> >> >>  Respectfully, >> >> >> >> Russell J.  Thomas, Jr. >> >> THOMAS &  ASSOCIATES >> >>  www.californiaemployersattorneys.com >> >> >> >>  Orange County Office >> >> 4121 Westerly Place, Suite  101 >> >> Newport Beach, California  92660 >> >> T: (949) 752-0101 >> >> F:  (949) 257-4756 >> >> M: (949)  466-7238 >> >> >> >> Beverly Hills  Office >> >> 9107 Wilshire Boulevard, Suite  450 >> >> Beverly Hills, California  90210 >> >> T: (310) 461-3561 >> >>  -----Original Message----- >> From:  blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]  On >> Behalf Of James Weisberg >> Sent: Tuesday, December  01, 2009 10:01 AM >> To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' >>  Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel >> >> Hi  Folks: >> >> >> >> Anyone on the lists  have experience or knowledge regarding the ADA >> and  suits >> against air carriers for violations available for quick  consult? >> Thanks. >> >> >> >>  James W. Weisberg, Esq. >> >> Law Office of J. William  Weisberg >> >> 299 South Patencio Road  #3 >> >> Palm Springs, California   92262 >> >> V:  916.425.1010 >> >>  F:  916.374.7667 >> >> E-Mail:   jimi-law at dc.rr.com >> >> Admitted in  Wisconsin >> >> Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration  Removal Defense & Civil >> Rights >> Advocacy for  Children with Diabetes >> >> This message contains  information which may be confidential and >> privileged. >>  Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the >>  addressee), >> you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the  message or any >> information >> contained in this message.  If you have received this message in >> error, >> please  advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from >>  your >> system. >> >> This exchange of information  does not create an attorney-client >> relationship >> nor  does it constitute legal advice.  The Law Office of J.  William >> Weisberg >> expects the recipient will  independently evaluate this information >> in >> accordance  with this disclaimer. >> >> >> >>  _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing  list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>  http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To  unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>  for >> blindlaw: >> >  http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rthomas%40rjtla >  wfi >>  rm.com >> >> >> >> >>  _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing  list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>  http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To  unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for  blindlaw: >> >  http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stiehm.law%40ju >  no.com >> > >  ____________________________________________________________ >  Hotel > Hotel pics, info and virtual tours.  Click here to book a  hotel online. >  http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/c?cp=ewJKbyZ61QloDsW_i_oQ_wAAJ1BdROy9vkzpR6E_Fj7jZTbnAAYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAATRAAAAAA= > >  _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing  list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org >  http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To  unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >  blindlaw: >  http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net  _______________________________________________ blindlaw  mailing  list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To  unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for  blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/aznor99%40aol.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mildredrivera%40yahoo.com From almomani at optonline.net Fri Dec 4 06:14:08 2009 From: almomani at optonline.net (Mudhaffer Al-Momani) Date: Fri, 04 Dec 2009 01:14:08 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel / Canes References: <368035.91609.qm@web33006.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Why? that sounds stupid. I had my cane all along and noone said a word to me, I just fold it and put it in the seat pouch in front of me or under the seat. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Millie Rivera-Rau" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 10:19 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel / Canes I have a question. Lately my long white cane has been taken from me after I get on the plane. Sometimes I can convince the personnel that I should be permitted to keep it but other times I am not successful. Is there something that I can site that would get through to them? Or, am I required to relinquish it? For some reason it has been a problem more in the last two years then ever before. I push it to a point just after making a scene. smile. The thing that really gets me is that they want to put it in an overhead bin and usually it falls out as soon as the bin is opened and hits someone on the head! Then the other passengers realize I was right. Any thoughts. Millie --- On Wed, 12/2/09, AZNOR99 at aol.com wrote: From: AZNOR99 at aol.com Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org Date: Wednesday, December 2, 2009, 12:24 PM Hello, This is an interesting subject. TSA is generally not responsible for providing a traveler with a guide as a passenger goes through screening. You can always request a Companion Pass from the airline for someone to accompany you; however, it is at the discretion of the airline as to whether or not they grant this request. Most do grant the Pass as long as you give them a valid reason, and most accept accompanying a minor or passenger with a disability or elderly individual as a valid reason. You can request a Companion Pass from the airline at the time of check-in if you bring someone with you to drop you off - you don't necessarily have to let the airline know in advance that you plan to do this. If you want someone to meet you at the gate when you arrive though, you'll need to let the airline know in advance. This is because you won't actually be with the person when they obtain the Companion Pass, so the airline can't verify that they know you or that you'd want them to pick you up. Companions are subject to the same screening and security measures as passengers - valid State or Federal ID, human and belonging scans, etc. TSA does not have jurisdiction over Companion Pass issuance - that is at the discretion of the airlines - they are subject to the regs of the FAA. You can ask for a Guide at the airport as well. Generally airlines prefer you do this in advance, but you can certainly choose to make such a request when you arrive at the airport or land at your destination. If you don't let them know you need someone in advance though, you might have to wait longer for someone to arrive, as airlines try to have staff waiting for passengers about whom they know. We've all seen the line of wheel chairs and uniformed staff waiting when we deplane? Well, they're each usually assigned to a particular person, and they usually know who that person is ahead of time. Airlines, and sometimes airports, are increasingly creating "Passenger Assistance Departments," and escorting passengers is one of their primary functions. There are some airports that utilize the airport police or other airport staff as escorts rather than airline personnel. Sometimes this is because it is incredibly difficult to credential staff for all areas of an airport, which such staff need to possess. Sometimes it may be a small airport, and it would be more efficient to assign escort responsibilities to one person for all the airlines. Or there might be other reasons. However, TSOs - Transportation Security Officers) are trained in how to interact with disabled passengers. For example, if you place your cane on the conveyer belt, a TSO may offer to position you prior to entering the human scanner and reach out to hold your hands to guide you forward. Due to the nature of the scanning equipment, a passenger must not touch the scanning machine - it will not function properly if anything comes into contact with it. Some of us have had the experience of bumping the machine and setting it off in the past. If you run your cane through the baggage scanner and ask for it back to take through the human scanner, you have to be very careful, once again, not to tap the scanner walls with the cane - it will likely set the machine off. Also, if your cane has metal - many of us use metal tips - then it may cause the scanner to go off, necessitating the individual be referred to secondary screening or wanding. I've personally had the experience of placing my cane on the baggage scanning belt and walking toward the human scanner. I walked through the scanner very slowly and did not set it off. However, I was referred to secondary. I always ask why I'm being referred to Secondary (I'm in the business of wanting to know if I'm being discriminated against because of my religion, national origin, or disability). The answer I usually get (not always though, and I've got some funny stories about other times) is "it's random." I conveyed to the TSO that I could not move to the secondary screening area until someone retrieved my cane from the conveyer belt. He got it for me and asked, "Oh, is the reason you moved so slowly through the scanner because you are blind?" I answered that it was, and he told me I was free to go. I insisted on going to Secondary, and he said, "Well you don't need to. Your behavior isn't suspicious. I just thought it was because I didn't know you were being careful not to bump the machine since you couldn't see well." Part of their jobs as TSOs is to monitor suspicious behavior; part of my job is to convey the difference between suspicious behavior and cultural norms. Needless to say I insisted on going to Secondary because I wanted the chance to talk the issue through with the TSO. It was a teachable moment, and I think he really got there could be hundreds of reasons why someone might move slowly through a machine. But for those that have had really bad experiences at TSA or CBP checkpoints, there are a couple of different avenues you can take. If you believe you have been the subject of discrimination, you may file a CRCL (DHS Office for Civil Rights and Civil Liberties - and where I work) complaint. Go to _www.dhs.gov/civilliberties_ (http://www.dhs.gov/civilliberties) to download the form or send an email to _civil.liberties at dhs.gov_ (mailto:civil.liberties at dhs.gov) explaining what happened. Please be sure to give as much detail as possible, including the date, airport name, terminal number, time of day, the name of anyone you obtain, and a narrative explaining what happened. If you have a customer service issue - for example a TSO was rude or dismissive, you may ask for a supervisor, a comment card, or both. You can also contact your local field office after the fact to convey what happened. My message is substantially longer than I intended, and I apologize for the length. Regards, Ronza In a message dated 12/2/2009 4:25:21 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, ckrugman at sbcglobal.net writes: I travel frequently alone and the air lines and/or HSA provide needed assistence upon my request. including through security check points and picking up baggage and assistence with procuring ground transportation or to a waiting party. I have found HSA and airport staff to be very cooperative. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "stiehm.law" To: Cc: Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 12:57 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > In addition to the airlines, I have recently become curious as to what if > any, accommodations for the TSA makes with respect to disabled people > going through security and being picked up by somebody at the gate at the > terminal at the other end of the flight. For example, do they permit a > blind person who is traveling alone to be accompanied through security, > down to the airline check-in counter at the gate by a non-ticketed > person. > > At the other end, is a non-ticketed person permitted through security to > go to the gate to meet a blind person flying alone? > > If TSA does not provide for such accommodations do the airlines take it > on themselves to provide this service? > > Has anybody had any experience in this regard? Is the accommodation, if > any, voluntary on the part of the TSA and/or the airlines or is it > governed by regulation? > > Patrick H. Stiehm > Stiehm Law Office > Alexandria, VA 22309 > 703-360-1089 (Voice) > 703-935-8266 (Fax) > > > > Tue, 1 Dec 2009 11:30:37 -0800 "Russell J. Thomas, Jr." > writes: >> Off the top of my head, and without any new research, the only case >> I >> remember is a case challenging the accessibility of airline websites >> with >> respect to attempting to make reservations and ordering tickets on >> line. >> >> I also think that there are regulations on the subject, especially >> dealing >> with how disabled passengers are to be treated (or perhaps on some >> occasions >> mistreated). >> >> I often thought it would be a good idea for the NFB to put together >> a short >> guide book concerning travel, including air travel, based upon >> experiences >> of NFB members, to be used as a reference guide for blind people who >> use air >> travel. Certainly things have changed since 911--some changes for >> the good, >> and others not so good. >> >> >> >> >> Respectfully, >> >> >> >> Russell J. Thomas, Jr. >> >> THOMAS & ASSOCIATES >> >> www.californiaemployersattorneys.com >> >> >> >> Orange County Office >> >> 4121 Westerly Place, Suite 101 >> >> Newport Beach, California 92660 >> >> T: (949) 752-0101 >> >> F: (949) 257-4756 >> >> M: (949) 466-7238 >> >> >> >> Beverly Hills Office >> >> 9107 Wilshire Boulevard, Suite 450 >> >> Beverly Hills, California 90210 >> >> T: (310) 461-3561 >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf Of James Weisberg >> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 10:01 AM >> To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' >> Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel >> >> Hi Folks: >> >> >> >> Anyone on the lists have experience or knowledge regarding the ADA >> and suits >> against air carriers for violations available for quick consult? >> Thanks. >> >> >> >> James W. Weisberg, Esq. >> >> Law Office of J. William Weisberg >> >> 299 South Patencio Road #3 >> >> Palm Springs, California 92262 >> >> V: 916.425.1010 >> >> F: 916.374.7667 >> >> E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com >> >> Admitted in Wisconsin >> >> Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil >> Rights >> Advocacy for Children with Diabetes >> >> This message contains information which may be confidential and >> privileged. >> Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the >> addressee), >> you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any >> information >> contained in this message. If you have received this message in >> error, >> please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from >> your >> system. >> >> This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client >> relationship >> nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William >> Weisberg >> expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information >> in >> accordance with this disclaimer. >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for >> blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rthomas%40rjtla > wfi >> rm.com >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stiehm.law%40ju > no.com >> > > ____________________________________________________________ > Hotel > Hotel pics, info and virtual tours. Click here to book a hotel online. > http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/c?cp=ewJKbyZ61QloDsW_i_oQ_wAAJ1BdROy9vkzpR6E_Fj7jZTbnAAYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAATRAAAAAA= > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/aznor99%40aol.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mildredrivera%40yahoo.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/almomani%40optonline.net From jimi-law at dc.rr.com Fri Dec 4 11:36:12 2009 From: jimi-law at dc.rr.com (James Weisberg) Date: Fri, 4 Dec 2009 03:36:12 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel / Canes In-Reply-To: <368035.91609.qm@web33006.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <368035.91609.qm@web33006.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <27D8A78BB0DF477DBDCCAF0D2A602EBF@screnci.local> I use a folding cane, which none of the airline personnel would have reason to know, and have NEVER had that issue with a fair amount of air travel. I take my folding cane after taking my seat and place it in the magazine compartment in front of me on the seat back (cane = no dog as dog is far superior! Fact!!) Perhaps you don't resemble a dirt bag like myself which may account for your additional obstacles? :-) James W. Weisberg, Esq. Law Office of J. William Weisberg 299 South Patencio Road #3 Palm Springs, California 92262 V: 916.425.1010 F: 916.374.7667 E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com Admitted in Wisconsin Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil Rights Advocacy for Children with Diabetes This message contains information which may be confidential and privileged. Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from your system. This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client relationship nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William Weisberg expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in accordance with this disclaimer. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Millie Rivera-Rau Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 7:19 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel / Canes I have a question. Lately my long white cane has been taken from me after I get on the plane. Sometimes I can convince the personnel that I should be permitted to keep it but other times I am not successful. Is there something that I can site that would get through to them? Or, am I required to relinquish it? For some reason it has been a problem more in the last two years then ever before. I push it to a point just after making a scene. smile. The thing that really gets me is that they want to put it in an overhead bin and usually it falls out as soon as the bin is opened and hits someone on the head! Then the other passengers realize I was right. Any thoughts.   Millie   --- On Wed, 12/2/09, AZNOR99 at aol.com wrote: From: AZNOR99 at aol.com Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org Date: Wednesday, December 2, 2009, 12:24 PM Hello, This is an interesting subject.  TSA is generally not  responsible for providing a traveler with a guide as a passenger goes  through screening.  You can always request a Companion Pass from the  airline for someone to accompany you; however, it is at the discretion of the  airline as to whether or not they grant this request.  Most do grant the  Pass as long as you give them a valid reason, and most accept accompanying a  minor or passenger with a disability or elderly individual as a valid  reason.  You can request a Companion Pass from the airline at the time of  check-in if you bring someone with you to drop you off - you don't necessarily  have to let the airline know in advance that you plan to do this.  If you  want someone to meet you at the gate when you arrive though, you'll need to let  the airline know in advance.  This is because you won't actually be with  the person when they obtain the Companion Pass, so the airline can't verify that  they know you or that you'd want them to pick you up.  Companions are  subject to the same screening and security measures as passengers - valid State  or Federal ID, human and belonging scans, etc.  TSA does not have  jurisdiction over Companion Pass issuance - that is at the discretion of the  airlines - they are subject to the regs of the FAA. You can ask for a Guide at the airport as well.  Generally airlines  prefer you do this in advance, but you can certainly choose to make such a  request when you arrive at the airport or land at your destination.  If you  don't let them know you need someone in advance though, you might have to wait  longer for someone to arrive, as airlines try to have staff waiting for  passengers  about whom they know. We've all seen the line of wheel chairs  and uniformed staff waiting when we deplane?  Well, they're each usually  assigned to a particular person, and they usually know who that person is ahead  of time.  Airlines, and sometimes airports, are increasingly creating  "Passenger Assistance Departments," and escorting passengers is one of their  primary functions. There are some airports that utilize the airport police or other airport  staff as escorts rather than airline personnel.  Sometimes this is because  it is incredibly difficult to credential staff for all areas of an airport,  which such staff need to possess.  Sometimes it may be a small airport, and  it would be more efficient to assign escort responsibilities to one person for  all the airlines.  Or there might be other reasons.  However, TSOs - Transportation Security Officers) are trained in how to  interact with disabled passengers.  For example, if you place your cane on  the conveyer belt, a TSO may offer to position you prior to entering the human scanner and reach out to hold your hands to guide you forward.  Due to the nature of the scanning equipment, a passenger must not touch the scanning  machine - it will not function properly if anything comes into contact with it.  Some of us have had the experience of bumping the machine and setting it off in the past. If you run your cane through the baggage scanner and ask for it back to  take through the human scanner, you have to be very careful, once again, not to  tap the scanner walls with the cane - it will likely set the machine off.   Also, if your cane has metal - many of us use metal tips - then it may cause the  scanner to go off, necessitating the individual be referred to secondary  screening or wanding. I've personally had the experience of placing my cane on the baggage  scanning belt and walking toward the human scanner.  I walked through the  scanner very slowly and did not set it off.  However, I was referred to  secondary.  I always ask why I'm being referred to Secondary (I'm in the  business of wanting to know if I'm being discriminated against because of my  religion, national origin, or disability).  The answer I usually get (not  always though, and I've got some funny stories about other times) is "it's  random."  I conveyed to the TSO that I could not move to the secondary  screening area until someone retrieved my cane from the conveyer belt.  He  got it for me and asked, "Oh, is the reason you moved so slowly through the  scanner because you are blind?" I answered that it was, and he told me I was  free to go. I insisted on going to Secondary, and he said, "Well you don't  need to. Your behavior isn't suspicious. I just thought it was because I didn't  know you were being careful not to bump the machine since you couldn't see  well."  Part of their jobs as TSOs is to monitor suspicious behavior; part  of my job is to convey the difference between suspicious behavior and cultural  norms.  Needless to say I insisted on going to Secondary because I wanted  the chance to talk the issue through with the TSO. It was a teachable moment,  and I think he really got there could be hundreds of reasons why someone might  move slowly through a machine. But for those that have had really bad experiences at TSA or CBP  checkpoints, there are a couple of different avenues you can take.  If you  believe you have been the subject of discrimination, you may file a CRCL (DHS  Office for Civil Rights and Civil Liberties - and where I work) complaint.   Go to _www.dhs.gov/civilliberties_ (http://www.dhs.gov/civilliberties)   to download the form or send an email to _civil.liberties at dhs.gov_ (mailto:civil.liberties at dhs.gov)  explaining  what happened.  Please be sure to give as much detail as possible,  including the date, airport name, terminal number, time of day, the name of  anyone you obtain, and a narrative explaining what happened.  If you have a  customer service issue - for example a TSO was rude or dismissive, you may ask  for a supervisor, a comment card, or both.  You can also contact your local  field office after the fact to convey what happened. My message is substantially longer than I intended, and I apologize for the length. Regards, Ronza In a message dated 12/2/2009 4:25:21 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,  ckrugman at sbcglobal.net writes: I travel  frequently alone and the air lines and/or HSA provide needed assistence  upon my request. including through security check points and picking up  baggage and assistence with procuring ground transportation or to a  waiting party. I have found HSA and airport staff to be very  cooperative. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "stiehm.law"  To: Cc:  Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 12:57  PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > In addition  to the airlines, I have recently become curious as to what if > any,  accommodations for the TSA makes with respect to disabled people > going  through security and being picked up by somebody at the gate at the >  terminal at the other end of the flight. For example, do they permit a >  blind person who is traveling alone to be accompanied through  security, > down to the airline check-in counter at the gate by a  non-ticketed > person. > > At the other end, is a  non-ticketed person permitted through security to > go to the gate to  meet a blind person flying alone? > > If TSA does not provide for  such accommodations do the airlines take it > on themselves to provide  this service? > > Has anybody had any experience in this regard?  Is the accommodation, if > any, voluntary on the part of the TSA and/or  the airlines or is it > governed by regulation? > > Patrick  H. Stiehm > Stiehm Law Office > Alexandria, VA 22309 >  703-360-1089 (Voice) > 703-935-8266  (Fax) > > > > Tue, 1 Dec 2009 11:30:37 -0800 "Russell  J. Thomas, Jr." > writes: >> Off  the top of my head, and without any new research, the only case >>  I >> remember is a case challenging the accessibility of airline  websites >> with >> respect to attempting to make  reservations and ordering tickets on >> line. >> >>  I also think that there are regulations on the subject, especially >>  dealing >> with how disabled passengers are to be treated (or perhaps  on some >> occasions >> mistreated). >> >>  I often thought it would be a good idea for the NFB to put  together >> a short >> guide book concerning travel,  including air travel, based upon >> experiences >> of NFB  members, to be used as a reference guide for blind people who >> use  air >> travel.  Certainly things have changed since 911--some  changes for >> the good, >> and others not so  good. >> >> >> >> >>  Respectfully, >> >> >> >> Russell J.  Thomas, Jr. >> >> THOMAS &  ASSOCIATES >> >>  www.californiaemployersattorneys.com >> >> >> >>  Orange County Office >> >> 4121 Westerly Place, Suite  101 >> >> Newport Beach, California  92660 >> >> T: (949) 752-0101 >> >> F:  (949) 257-4756 >> >> M: (949)  466-7238 >> >> >> >> Beverly Hills  Office >> >> 9107 Wilshire Boulevard, Suite  450 >> >> Beverly Hills, California  90210 >> >> T: (310) 461-3561 >> >>  -----Original Message----- >> From:  blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]  On >> Behalf Of James Weisberg >> Sent: Tuesday, December  01, 2009 10:01 AM >> To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' >>  Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel >> >> Hi  Folks: >> >> >> >> Anyone on the lists  have experience or knowledge regarding the ADA >> and  suits >> against air carriers for violations available for quick  consult? >> Thanks. >> >> >> >>  James W. Weisberg, Esq. >> >> Law Office of J. William  Weisberg >> >> 299 South Patencio Road  #3 >> >> Palm Springs, California   92262 >> >> V:  916.425.1010 >> >>  F:  916.374.7667 >> >> E-Mail:   jimi-law at dc.rr.com >> >> Admitted in  Wisconsin >> >> Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration  Removal Defense & Civil >> Rights >> Advocacy for  Children with Diabetes >> >> This message contains  information which may be confidential and >> privileged. >>  Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the >>  addressee), >> you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the  message or any >> information >> contained in this message.  If you have received this message in >> error, >> please  advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from >>  your >> system. >> >> This exchange of information  does not create an attorney-client >> relationship >> nor  does it constitute legal advice.  The Law Office of J.  William >> Weisberg >> expects the recipient will  independently evaluate this information >> in >> accordance  with this disclaimer. >> >> >> >>  _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing  list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>  http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To  unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>  for >> blindlaw: >> >  http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rthomas%40rjtla >  wfi >>  rm.com >> >> >> >> >>  _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing  list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>  http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To  unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for  blindlaw: >> >  http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stiehm.law%40ju >  no.com >> > >  ____________________________________________________________ >  Hotel > Hotel pics, info and virtual tours.  Click here to book a  hotel online. >  http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/c?cp=ewJKbyZ61QloDsW_i_oQ_wAAJ1BdRO y9vkzpR6E_Fj7jZTbnAAYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAATRAAAAAA= > >  _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing  list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org >  http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To  unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >  blindlaw: >  http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob al.net  _______________________________________________ blindlaw  mailing  list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To  unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for  blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/aznor99%40aol.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mildredrivera%40ya hoo.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jimi-law%40dc.rr.c om __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4659 (20091203) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4659 (20091203) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4660 (20091204) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4660 (20091204) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com From Yasmin.Reyazuddin at montgomerycountymd.gov Fri Dec 4 13:06:11 2009 From: Yasmin.Reyazuddin at montgomerycountymd.gov (Reyazuddin, Yasmin) Date: Fri, 4 Dec 2009 08:06:11 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel / Canes In-Reply-To: <368035.91609.qm@web33006.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Millie, It has happened to me too. I have given them the cane and they have placed in a secure place. I was in the ile seat and had no wall near me. They also put the cane in the overhead bin but are careful that it does not fall out. The airline staff are willing to help me get to the bathroom or bring me soft drinks. I am talking about long flights lasting 7 to 9 hours. Yasmin Reyazuddin Information & Referral unit Department of Health & human services 401 Hungerford Drive (1st floor) Rockville MD 20850 Phone 240-777-1245 (info line) 240-777-1556 (personal line) Fax: 240-777-4636 TTY: 240-777-1295 Office hours 8:30 am to 5:00 pm Languages English, Hindi, Urdu This message may contain protected health information or other information that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by return mail and destroy any copies of this material. Thank you. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Millie Rivera-Rau Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 10:19 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel / Canes I have a question. Lately my long white cane has been taken from me after I get on the plane. Sometimes I can convince the personnel that I should be permitted to keep it but other times I am not successful. Is there something that I can site that would get through to them? Or, am I required to relinquish it? For some reason it has been a problem more in the last two years then ever before. I push it to a point just after making a scene. smile. The thing that really gets me is that they want to put it in an overhead bin and usually it falls out as soon as the bin is opened and hits someone on the head! Then the other passengers realize I was right. Any thoughts.   Millie   --- On Wed, 12/2/09, AZNOR99 at aol.com wrote: From: AZNOR99 at aol.com Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org Date: Wednesday, December 2, 2009, 12:24 PM Hello, This is an interesting subject.  TSA is generally not  responsible for providing a traveler with a guide as a passenger goes  through screening.  You can always request a Companion Pass from the  airline for someone to accompany you; however, it is at the discretion of the  airline as to whether or not they grant this request.  Most do grant the  Pass as long as you give them a valid reason, and most accept accompanying a  minor or passenger with a disability or elderly individual as a valid  reason.  You can request a Companion Pass from the airline at the time of  check-in if you bring someone with you to drop you off - you don't necessarily  have to let the airline know in advance that you plan to do this.  If you  want someone to meet you at the gate when you arrive though, you'll need to let  the airline know in advance.  This is because you won't actually be with  the person when they obtain the Companion Pass, so the airline can't verify that  they know you or that you'd want them to pick you up.  Companions are  subject to the same screening and security measures as passengers - valid State  or Federal ID, human and belonging scans, etc.  TSA does not have  jurisdiction over Companion Pass issuance - that is at the discretion of the  airlines - they are subject to the regs of the FAA. You can ask for a Guide at the airport as well.  Generally airlines  prefer you do this in advance, but you can certainly choose to make such a  request when you arrive at the airport or land at your destination.  If you  don't let them know you need someone in advance though, you might have to wait  longer for someone to arrive, as airlines try to have staff waiting for  passengers  about whom they know. We've all seen the line of wheel chairs  and uniformed staff waiting when we deplane?  Well, they're each usually  assigned to a particular person, and they usually know who that person is ahead  of time.  Airlines, and sometimes airports, are increasingly creating  "Passenger Assistance Departments," and escorting passengers is one of their  primary functions. There are some airports that utilize the airport police or other airport  staff as escorts rather than airline personnel.  Sometimes this is because  it is incredibly difficult to credential staff for all areas of an airport,  which such staff need to possess.  Sometimes it may be a small airport, and  it would be more efficient to assign escort responsibilities to one person for  all the airlines.  Or there might be other reasons.  However, TSOs - Transportation Security Officers) are trained in how to  interact with disabled passengers.  For example, if you place your cane on  the conveyer belt, a TSO may offer to position you prior to entering the human scanner and reach out to hold your hands to guide you forward.  Due to the nature of the scanning equipment, a passenger must not touch the scanning  machine - it will not function properly if anything comes into contact with it.  Some of us have had the experience of bumping the machine and setting it off in the past. If you run your cane through the baggage scanner and ask for it back to  take through the human scanner, you have to be very careful, once again, not to  tap the scanner walls with the cane - it will likely set the machine off.   Also, if your cane has metal - many of us use metal tips - then it may cause the  scanner to go off, necessitating the individual be referred to secondary  screening or wanding. I've personally had the experience of placing my cane on the baggage  scanning belt and walking toward the human scanner.  I walked through the  scanner very slowly and did not set it off.  However, I was referred to  secondary.  I always ask why I'm being referred to Secondary (I'm in the  business of wanting to know if I'm being discriminated against because of my  religion, national origin, or disability).  The answer I usually get (not  always though, and I've got some funny stories about other times) is "it's  random."  I conveyed to the TSO that I could not move to the secondary  screening area until someone retrieved my cane from the conveyer belt.  He  got it for me and asked, "Oh, is the reason you moved so slowly through the  scanner because you are blind?" I answered that it was, and he told me I was  free to go. I insisted on going to Secondary, and he said, "Well you don't  need to. Your behavior isn't suspicious. I just thought it was because I didn't  know you were being careful not to bump the machine since you couldn't see  well."  Part of their jobs as TSOs is to monitor suspicious behavior; part  of my job is to convey the difference between suspicious behavior and cultural  norms.  Needless to say I insisted on going to Secondary because I wanted  the chance to talk the issue through with the TSO. It was a teachable moment,  and I think he really got there could be hundreds of reasons why someone might  move slowly through a machine. But for those that have had really bad experiences at TSA or CBP  checkpoints, there are a couple of different avenues you can take.  If you  believe you have been the subject of discrimination, you may file a CRCL (DHS  Office for Civil Rights and Civil Liberties - and where I work) complaint.   Go to _www.dhs.gov/civilliberties_ (http://www.dhs.gov/civilliberties)   to download the form or send an email to _civil.liberties at dhs.gov_ (mailto:civil.liberties at dhs.gov)  explaining  what happened.  Please be sure to give as much detail as possible,  including the date, airport name, terminal number, time of day, the name of  anyone you obtain, and a narrative explaining what happened.  If you have a  customer service issue - for example a TSO was rude or dismissive, you may ask  for a supervisor, a comment card, or both.  You can also contact your local  field office after the fact to convey what happened. My message is substantially longer than I intended, and I apologize for the length. Regards, Ronza In a message dated 12/2/2009 4:25:21 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,  ckrugman at sbcglobal.net writes: I travel  frequently alone and the air lines and/or HSA provide needed assistence  upon my request. including through security check points and picking up  baggage and assistence with procuring ground transportation or to a  waiting party. I have found HSA and airport staff to be very  cooperative. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "stiehm.law"  To: Cc:  Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 12:57  PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > In addition  to the airlines, I have recently become curious as to what if > any,  accommodations for the TSA makes with respect to disabled people > going  through security and being picked up by somebody at the gate at the >  terminal at the other end of the flight. For example, do they permit a >  blind person who is traveling alone to be accompanied through  security, > down to the airline check-in counter at the gate by a  non-ticketed > person. > > At the other end, is a  non-ticketed person permitted through security to > go to the gate to  meet a blind person flying alone? > > If TSA does not provide for  such accommodations do the airlines take it > on themselves to provide  this service? > > Has anybody had any experience in this regard?  Is the accommodation, if > any, voluntary on the part of the TSA and/or  the airlines or is it > governed by regulation? > > Patrick  H. Stiehm > Stiehm Law Office > Alexandria, VA 22309 >  703-360-1089 (Voice) > 703-935-8266  (Fax) > > > > Tue, 1 Dec 2009 11:30:37 -0800 "Russell  J. Thomas, Jr." > writes: >> Off  the top of my head, and without any new research, the only case >>  I >> remember is a case challenging the accessibility of airline  websites >> with >> respect to attempting to make  reservations and ordering tickets on >> line. >> >>  I also think that there are regulations on the subject, especially >>  dealing >> with how disabled passengers are to be treated (or perhaps  on some >> occasions >> mistreated). >> >>  I often thought it would be a good idea for the NFB to put  together >> a short >> guide book concerning travel,  including air travel, based upon >> experiences >> of NFB  members, to be used as a reference guide for blind people who >> use  air >> travel.  Certainly things have changed since 911--some  changes for >> the good, >> and others not so  good. >> >> >> >> >>  Respectfully, >> >> >> >> Russell J.  Thomas, Jr. >> >> THOMAS &  ASSOCIATES >> >>  www.californiaemployersattorneys.com >> >> >> >>  Orange County Office >> >> 4121 Westerly Place, Suite  101 >> >> Newport Beach, California  92660 >> >> T: (949) 752-0101 >> >> F:  (949) 257-4756 >> >> M: (949)  466-7238 >> >> >> >> Beverly Hills  Office >> >> 9107 Wilshire Boulevard, Suite  450 >> >> Beverly Hills, California  90210 >> >> T: (310) 461-3561 >> >>  -----Original Message----- >> From:  blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]  On >> Behalf Of James Weisberg >> Sent: Tuesday, December  01, 2009 10:01 AM >> To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' >>  Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel >> >> Hi  Folks: >> >> >> >> Anyone on the lists  have experience or knowledge regarding the ADA >> and  suits >> against air carriers for violations available for quick  consult? >> Thanks. >> >> >> >>  James W. Weisberg, Esq. >> >> Law Office of J. William  Weisberg >> >> 299 South Patencio Road  #3 >> >> Palm Springs, California   92262 >> >> V:  916.425.1010 >> >>  F:  916.374.7667 >> >> E-Mail:   jimi-law at dc.rr.com >> >> Admitted in  Wisconsin >> >> Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration  Removal Defense & Civil >> Rights >> Advocacy for  Children with Diabetes >> >> This message contains  information which may be confidential and >> privileged. >>  Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the >>  addressee), >> you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the  message or any >> information >> contained in this message.  If you have received this message in >> error, >> please  advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from >>  your >> system. >> >> This exchange of information  does not create an attorney-client >> relationship >> nor  does it constitute legal advice.  The Law Office of J.  William >> Weisberg >> expects the recipient will  independently evaluate this information >> in >> accordance  with this disclaimer. >> >> >> >>  _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing  list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>  http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To  unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>  for >> blindlaw: >> >  http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rthomas%40rjtla >  wfi >>  rm.com >> >> >> >> >>  _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing  list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>  http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To  unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for  blindlaw: >> >  http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stiehm.law%40ju >  no.com >> > >  ____________________________________________________________ >  Hotel > Hotel pics, info and virtual tours.  Click here to book a  hotel online. >  http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/c?cp=ewJKbyZ61QloDsW_i_oQ_wAAJ1BdROy9vkzpR6E_Fj7jZTbnAAYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAATRAAAAAA= > >  _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing  list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org >  http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To  unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >  blindlaw: >  http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net  _______________________________________________ blindlaw  mailing  list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To  unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for  blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/aznor99%40aol.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mildredrivera%40yahoo.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/yasmin.reyazuddin%40montgomerycountymd.gov From mildredrivera at yahoo.com Fri Dec 4 14:03:02 2009 From: mildredrivera at yahoo.com (Millie Rivera-Rau) Date: Fri, 4 Dec 2009 06:03:02 -0800 (PST) Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel / Canes In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <407279.40284.qm@web33006.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I prefer to use a long white cane. When I sit in the aisle, I just ask the person near the window if I can stow it there and no one has ever turned me down. I was wondering if anyone knows, maybe Ronza, if I have a right to have the cane at my reach? I maintain that I do, but don't know any reg or airline policy that actually says that I do. Have a blessed day !!! :), Millie  --- On Fri, 12/4/09, Reyazuddin, Yasmin wrote: From: Reyazuddin, Yasmin Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel / Canes To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Date: Friday, December 4, 2009, 8:06 AM Hi Millie, It has happened to me too. I have given them the cane and they have placed in a secure place. I was in the ile seat and had no wall near me. They also put the cane in the overhead bin but are careful that it does not fall out. The airline staff are willing to help me get to the bathroom or bring me soft drinks. I am talking about long flights lasting 7 to 9 hours. Yasmin Reyazuddin Information & Referral unit Department of Health & human services 401 Hungerford Drive (1st floor) Rockville MD 20850 Phone 240-777-1245 (info line) 240-777-1556 (personal line) Fax: 240-777-4636 TTY: 240-777-1295 Office hours 8:30 am to 5:00 pm Languages English, Hindi, Urdu This message may contain protected health information or other information that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by return mail and destroy any copies of this material. Thank you. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Millie Rivera-Rau Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 10:19 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel / Canes I have a question. Lately my long white cane has been taken from me after I get on the plane. Sometimes I can convince the personnel that I should be permitted to keep it but other times I am not successful. Is there something that I can site that would get through to them? Or, am I required to relinquish it? For some reason it has been a problem more in the last two years then ever before. I push it to a point just after making a scene. smile. The thing that really gets me is that they want to put it in an overhead bin and usually it falls out as soon as the bin is opened and hits someone on the head! Then the other passengers realize I was right. Any thoughts.   Millie   --- On Wed, 12/2/09, AZNOR99 at aol.com wrote: From: AZNOR99 at aol.com Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org Date: Wednesday, December 2, 2009, 12:24 PM Hello, This is an interesting subject.  TSA is generally not  responsible for providing a traveler with a guide as a passenger goes  through screening.  You can always request a Companion Pass from the  airline for someone to accompany you; however, it is at the discretion of the  airline as to whether or not they grant this request.  Most do grant the  Pass as long as you give them a valid reason, and most accept accompanying a  minor or passenger with a disability or elderly individual as a valid  reason.  You can request a Companion Pass from the airline at the time of  check-in if you bring someone with you to drop you off - you don't necessarily  have to let the airline know in advance that you plan to do this.  If you  want someone to meet you at the gate when you arrive though, you'll need to let  the airline know in advance.  This is because you won't actually be with  the person when they obtain the Companion Pass, so the airline can't verify that  they know you or that you'd want them to pick you up.  Companions are  subject to the same screening and security measures as passengers - valid State  or Federal ID, human and belonging scans, etc.  TSA does not have  jurisdiction over Companion Pass issuance - that is at the discretion of the  airlines - they are subject to the regs of the FAA. You can ask for a Guide at the airport as well.  Generally airlines  prefer you do this in advance, but you can certainly choose to make such a  request when you arrive at the airport or land at your destination.  If you  don't let them know you need someone in advance though, you might have to wait  longer for someone to arrive, as airlines try to have staff waiting for  passengers  about whom they know. We've all seen the line of wheel chairs  and uniformed staff waiting when we deplane?  Well, they're each usually  assigned to a particular person, and they usually know who that person is ahead  of time.  Airlines, and sometimes airports, are increasingly creating  "Passenger Assistance Departments," and escorting passengers is one of their  primary functions. There are some airports that utilize the airport police or other airport  staff as escorts rather than airline personnel.  Sometimes this is because  it is incredibly difficult to credential staff for all areas of an airport,  which such staff need to possess.  Sometimes it may be a small airport, and  it would be more efficient to assign escort responsibilities to one person for  all the airlines.  Or there might be other reasons.  However, TSOs - Transportation Security Officers) are trained in how to  interact with disabled passengers.  For example, if you place your cane on  the conveyer belt, a TSO may offer to position you prior to entering the human scanner and reach out to hold your hands to guide you forward.  Due to the nature of the scanning equipment, a passenger must not touch the scanning  machine - it will not function properly if anything comes into contact with it.  Some of us have had the experience of bumping the machine and setting it off in the past. If you run your cane through the baggage scanner and ask for it back to  take through the human scanner, you have to be very careful, once again, not to  tap the scanner walls with the cane - it will likely set the machine off.   Also, if your cane has metal - many of us use metal tips - then it may cause the  scanner to go off, necessitating the individual be referred to secondary  screening or wanding. I've personally had the experience of placing my cane on the baggage  scanning belt and walking toward the human scanner.  I walked through the  scanner very slowly and did not set it off.  However, I was referred to  secondary.  I always ask why I'm being referred to Secondary (I'm in the  business of wanting to know if I'm being discriminated against because of my  religion, national origin, or disability).  The answer I usually get (not  always though, and I've got some funny stories about other times) is "it's  random."  I conveyed to the TSO that I could not move to the secondary  screening area until someone retrieved my cane from the conveyer belt.  He  got it for me and asked, "Oh, is the reason you moved so slowly through the  scanner because you are blind?" I answered that it was, and he told me I was  free to go. I insisted on going to Secondary, and he said, "Well you don't  need to. Your behavior isn't suspicious. I just thought it was because I didn't  know you were being careful not to bump the machine since you couldn't see  well."  Part of their jobs as TSOs is to monitor suspicious behavior; part  of my job is to convey the difference between suspicious behavior and cultural  norms.  Needless to say I insisted on going to Secondary because I wanted  the chance to talk the issue through with the TSO. It was a teachable moment,  and I think he really got there could be hundreds of reasons why someone might  move slowly through a machine. But for those that have had really bad experiences at TSA or CBP  checkpoints, there are a couple of different avenues you can take.  If you  believe you have been the subject of discrimination, you may file a CRCL (DHS  Office for Civil Rights and Civil Liberties - and where I work) complaint.   Go to _www.dhs.gov/civilliberties_ (http://www.dhs.gov/civilliberties)   to download the form or send an email to _civil.liberties at dhs.gov_ (mailto:civil.liberties at dhs.gov)  explaining  what happened.  Please be sure to give as much detail as possible,  including the date, airport name, terminal number, time of day, the name of  anyone you obtain, and a narrative explaining what happened.  If you have a  customer service issue - for example a TSO was rude or dismissive, you may ask  for a supervisor, a comment card, or both.  You can also contact your local  field office after the fact to convey what happened. My message is substantially longer than I intended, and I apologize for the length. Regards, Ronza In a message dated 12/2/2009 4:25:21 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,  ckrugman at sbcglobal.net writes: I travel  frequently alone and the air lines and/or HSA provide needed assistence  upon my request. including through security check points and picking up  baggage and assistence with procuring ground transportation or to a  waiting party. I have found HSA and airport staff to be very  cooperative. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "stiehm.law"  To: Cc:  Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 12:57  PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > In addition  to the airlines, I have recently become curious as to what if > any,  accommodations for the TSA makes with respect to disabled people > going  through security and being picked up by somebody at the gate at the >  terminal at the other end of the flight. For example, do they permit a >  blind person who is traveling alone to be accompanied through  security, > down to the airline check-in counter at the gate by a  non-ticketed > person. > > At the other end, is a  non-ticketed person permitted through security to > go to the gate to  meet a blind person flying alone? > > If TSA does not provide for  such accommodations do the airlines take it > on themselves to provide  this service? > > Has anybody had any experience in this regard?  Is the accommodation, if > any, voluntary on the part of the TSA and/or  the airlines or is it > governed by regulation? > > Patrick  H. Stiehm > Stiehm Law Office > Alexandria, VA 22309 >  703-360-1089 (Voice) > 703-935-8266  (Fax) > > > > Tue, 1 Dec 2009 11:30:37 -0800 "Russell  J. Thomas, Jr." > writes: >> Off  the top of my head, and without any new research, the only case >>  I >> remember is a case challenging the accessibility of airline  websites >> with >> respect to attempting to make  reservations and ordering tickets on >> line. >> >>  I also think that there are regulations on the subject, especially >>  dealing >> with how disabled passengers are to be treated (or perhaps  on some >> occasions >> mistreated). >> >>  I often thought it would be a good idea for the NFB to put  together >> a short >> guide book concerning travel,  including air travel, based upon >> experiences >> of NFB  members, to be used as a reference guide for blind people who >> use  air >> travel.  Certainly things have changed since 911--some  changes for >> the good, >> and others not so  good. >> >> >> >> >>  Respectfully, >> >> >> >> Russell J.  Thomas, Jr. >> >> THOMAS &  ASSOCIATES >> >>  www.californiaemployersattorneys.com >> >> >> >>  Orange County Office >> >> 4121 Westerly Place, Suite  101 >> >> Newport Beach, California  92660 >> >> T: (949) 752-0101 >> >> F:  (949) 257-4756 >> >> M: (949)  466-7238 >> >> >> >> Beverly Hills  Office >> >> 9107 Wilshire Boulevard, Suite  450 >> >> Beverly Hills, California  90210 >> >> T: (310) 461-3561 >> >>  -----Original Message----- >> From:  blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]  On >> Behalf Of James Weisberg >> Sent: Tuesday, December  01, 2009 10:01 AM >> To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' >>  Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel >> >> Hi  Folks: >> >> >> >> Anyone on the lists  have experience or knowledge regarding the ADA >> and  suits >> against air carriers for violations available for quick  consult? >> Thanks. >> >> >> >>  James W. Weisberg, Esq. >> >> Law Office of J. William  Weisberg >> >> 299 South Patencio Road  #3 >> >> Palm Springs, California   92262 >> >> V:  916.425.1010 >> >>  F:  916.374.7667 >> >> E-Mail:   jimi-law at dc.rr.com >> >> Admitted in  Wisconsin >> >> Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration  Removal Defense & Civil >> Rights >> Advocacy for  Children with Diabetes >> >> This message contains  information which may be confidential and >> privileged. >>  Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the >>  addressee), >> you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the  message or any >> information >> contained in this message.  If you have received this message in >> error, >> please  advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from >>  your >> system. >> >> This exchange of information  does not create an attorney-client >> relationship >> nor  does it constitute legal advice.  The Law Office of J.  William >> Weisberg >> expects the recipient will  independently evaluate this information >> in >> accordance  with this disclaimer. >> >> >> >>  _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing  list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>  http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To  unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>  for >> blindlaw: >> >  http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rthomas%40rjtla >  wfi >>  rm.com >> >> >> >> >>  _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing  list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>  http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To  unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for  blindlaw: >> >  http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stiehm.law%40ju >  no.com >> > >  ____________________________________________________________ >  Hotel > Hotel pics, info and virtual tours.  Click here to book a  hotel online. >  http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/c?cp=ewJKbyZ61QloDsW_i_oQ_wAAJ1BdROy9vkzpR6E_Fj7jZTbnAAYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAATRAAAAAA= > >  _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing  list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org >  http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To  unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >  blindlaw: >  http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net  _______________________________________________ blindlaw  mailing  list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To  unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for  blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/aznor99%40aol.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mildredrivera%40yahoo.com       _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/yasmin.reyazuddin%40montgomerycountymd.gov _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mildredrivera%40yahoo.com From stevep.deeley at insightbb.com Fri Dec 4 16:59:23 2009 From: stevep.deeley at insightbb.com (Steve P. Deeley) Date: Fri, 4 Dec 2009 11:59:23 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel / Canes In-Reply-To: <27D8A78BB0DF477DBDCCAF0D2A602EBF@screnci.local> References: <368035.91609.qm@web33006.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <27D8A78BB0DF477DBDCCAF0D2A602EBF@screnci.local> Message-ID: <3A18ED1C06D3401AA8C99D87EA1966E7@StevePC> Maybe we should form a consulting firm and offer disability training to all airlines. ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Weisberg" To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 6:36 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel / Canes I use a folding cane, which none of the airline personnel would have reason to know, and have NEVER had that issue with a fair amount of air travel. I take my folding cane after taking my seat and place it in the magazine compartment in front of me on the seat back (cane = no dog as dog is far superior! Fact!!) Perhaps you don't resemble a dirt bag like myself which may account for your additional obstacles? :-) James W. Weisberg, Esq. Law Office of J. William Weisberg 299 South Patencio Road #3 Palm Springs, California 92262 V: 916.425.1010 F: 916.374.7667 E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com Admitted in Wisconsin Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil Rights Advocacy for Children with Diabetes This message contains information which may be confidential and privileged. Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from your system. This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client relationship nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William Weisberg expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in accordance with this disclaimer. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Millie Rivera-Rau Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 7:19 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel / Canes I have a question. Lately my long white cane has been taken from me after I get on the plane. Sometimes I can convince the personnel that I should be permitted to keep it but other times I am not successful. Is there something that I can site that would get through to them? Or, am I required to relinquish it? For some reason it has been a problem more in the last two years then ever before. I push it to a point just after making a scene. smile. The thing that really gets me is that they want to put it in an overhead bin and usually it falls out as soon as the bin is opened and hits someone on the head! Then the other passengers realize I was right. Any thoughts. Millie --- On Wed, 12/2/09, AZNOR99 at aol.com wrote: From: AZNOR99 at aol.com Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org Date: Wednesday, December 2, 2009, 12:24 PM Hello, This is an interesting subject. TSA is generally not responsible for providing a traveler with a guide as a passenger goes through screening. You can always request a Companion Pass from the airline for someone to accompany you; however, it is at the discretion of the airline as to whether or not they grant this request. Most do grant the Pass as long as you give them a valid reason, and most accept accompanying a minor or passenger with a disability or elderly individual as a valid reason. You can request a Companion Pass from the airline at the time of check-in if you bring someone with you to drop you off - you don't necessarily have to let the airline know in advance that you plan to do this. If you want someone to meet you at the gate when you arrive though, you'll need to let the airline know in advance. This is because you won't actually be with the person when they obtain the Companion Pass, so the airline can't verify that they know you or that you'd want them to pick you up. Companions are subject to the same screening and security measures as passengers - valid State or Federal ID, human and belonging scans, etc. TSA does not have jurisdiction over Companion Pass issuance - that is at the discretion of the airlines - they are subject to the regs of the FAA. You can ask for a Guide at the airport as well. Generally airlines prefer you do this in advance, but you can certainly choose to make such a request when you arrive at the airport or land at your destination. If you don't let them know you need someone in advance though, you might have to wait longer for someone to arrive, as airlines try to have staff waiting for passengers about whom they know. We've all seen the line of wheel chairs and uniformed staff waiting when we deplane? Well, they're each usually assigned to a particular person, and they usually know who that person is ahead of time. Airlines, and sometimes airports, are increasingly creating "Passenger Assistance Departments," and escorting passengers is one of their primary functions. There are some airports that utilize the airport police or other airport staff as escorts rather than airline personnel. Sometimes this is because it is incredibly difficult to credential staff for all areas of an airport, which such staff need to possess. Sometimes it may be a small airport, and it would be more efficient to assign escort responsibilities to one person for all the airlines. Or there might be other reasons. However, TSOs - Transportation Security Officers) are trained in how to interact with disabled passengers. For example, if you place your cane on the conveyer belt, a TSO may offer to position you prior to entering the human scanner and reach out to hold your hands to guide you forward. Due to the nature of the scanning equipment, a passenger must not touch the scanning machine - it will not function properly if anything comes into contact with it. Some of us have had the experience of bumping the machine and setting it off in the past. If you run your cane through the baggage scanner and ask for it back to take through the human scanner, you have to be very careful, once again, not to tap the scanner walls with the cane - it will likely set the machine off. Also, if your cane has metal - many of us use metal tips - then it may cause the scanner to go off, necessitating the individual be referred to secondary screening or wanding. I've personally had the experience of placing my cane on the baggage scanning belt and walking toward the human scanner. I walked through the scanner very slowly and did not set it off. However, I was referred to secondary. I always ask why I'm being referred to Secondary (I'm in the business of wanting to know if I'm being discriminated against because of my religion, national origin, or disability). The answer I usually get (not always though, and I've got some funny stories about other times) is "it's random." I conveyed to the TSO that I could not move to the secondary screening area until someone retrieved my cane from the conveyer belt. He got it for me and asked, "Oh, is the reason you moved so slowly through the scanner because you are blind?" I answered that it was, and he told me I was free to go. I insisted on going to Secondary, and he said, "Well you don't need to. Your behavior isn't suspicious. I just thought it was because I didn't know you were being careful not to bump the machine since you couldn't see well." Part of their jobs as TSOs is to monitor suspicious behavior; part of my job is to convey the difference between suspicious behavior and cultural norms. Needless to say I insisted on going to Secondary because I wanted the chance to talk the issue through with the TSO. It was a teachable moment, and I think he really got there could be hundreds of reasons why someone might move slowly through a machine. But for those that have had really bad experiences at TSA or CBP checkpoints, there are a couple of different avenues you can take. If you believe you have been the subject of discrimination, you may file a CRCL (DHS Office for Civil Rights and Civil Liberties - and where I work) complaint. Go to _www.dhs.gov/civilliberties_ (http://www.dhs.gov/civilliberties) to download the form or send an email to _civil.liberties at dhs.gov_ (mailto:civil.liberties at dhs.gov) explaining what happened. Please be sure to give as much detail as possible, including the date, airport name, terminal number, time of day, the name of anyone you obtain, and a narrative explaining what happened. If you have a customer service issue - for example a TSO was rude or dismissive, you may ask for a supervisor, a comment card, or both. You can also contact your local field office after the fact to convey what happened. My message is substantially longer than I intended, and I apologize for the length. Regards, Ronza In a message dated 12/2/2009 4:25:21 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, ckrugman at sbcglobal.net writes: I travel frequently alone and the air lines and/or HSA provide needed assistence upon my request. including through security check points and picking up baggage and assistence with procuring ground transportation or to a waiting party. I have found HSA and airport staff to be very cooperative. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "stiehm.law" To: Cc: Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 12:57 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > In addition to the airlines, I have recently become curious as to what if > any, accommodations for the TSA makes with respect to disabled people > going through security and being picked up by somebody at the gate at the > terminal at the other end of the flight. For example, do they permit a > blind person who is traveling alone to be accompanied through security, > down to the airline check-in counter at the gate by a non-ticketed > person. > > At the other end, is a non-ticketed person permitted through security to > go to the gate to meet a blind person flying alone? > > If TSA does not provide for such accommodations do the airlines take it > on themselves to provide this service? > > Has anybody had any experience in this regard? Is the accommodation, if > any, voluntary on the part of the TSA and/or the airlines or is it > governed by regulation? > > Patrick H. Stiehm > Stiehm Law Office > Alexandria, VA 22309 > 703-360-1089 (Voice) > 703-935-8266 (Fax) > > > > Tue, 1 Dec 2009 11:30:37 -0800 "Russell J. Thomas, Jr." > writes: >> Off the top of my head, and without any new research, the only case >> I >> remember is a case challenging the accessibility of airline websites >> with >> respect to attempting to make reservations and ordering tickets on >> line. >> >> I also think that there are regulations on the subject, especially >> dealing >> with how disabled passengers are to be treated (or perhaps on some >> occasions >> mistreated). >> >> I often thought it would be a good idea for the NFB to put together >> a short >> guide book concerning travel, including air travel, based upon >> experiences >> of NFB members, to be used as a reference guide for blind people who >> use air >> travel. Certainly things have changed since 911--some changes for >> the good, >> and others not so good. >> >> >> >> >> Respectfully, >> >> >> >> Russell J. Thomas, Jr. >> >> THOMAS & ASSOCIATES >> >> www.californiaemployersattorneys.com >> >> >> >> Orange County Office >> >> 4121 Westerly Place, Suite 101 >> >> Newport Beach, California 92660 >> >> T: (949) 752-0101 >> >> F: (949) 257-4756 >> >> M: (949) 466-7238 >> >> >> >> Beverly Hills Office >> >> 9107 Wilshire Boulevard, Suite 450 >> >> Beverly Hills, California 90210 >> >> T: (310) 461-3561 >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf Of James Weisberg >> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 10:01 AM >> To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' >> Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel >> >> Hi Folks: >> >> >> >> Anyone on the lists have experience or knowledge regarding the ADA >> and suits >> against air carriers for violations available for quick consult? >> Thanks. >> >> >> >> James W. Weisberg, Esq. >> >> Law Office of J. William Weisberg >> >> 299 South Patencio Road #3 >> >> Palm Springs, California 92262 >> >> V: 916.425.1010 >> >> F: 916.374.7667 >> >> E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com >> >> Admitted in Wisconsin >> >> Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil >> Rights >> Advocacy for Children with Diabetes >> >> This message contains information which may be confidential and >> privileged. >> Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the >> addressee), >> you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any >> information >> contained in this message. If you have received this message in >> error, >> please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from >> your >> system. >> >> This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client >> relationship >> nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William >> Weisberg >> expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information >> in >> accordance with this disclaimer. >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for >> blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rthomas%40rjtla > wfi >> rm.com >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stiehm.law%40ju > no.com >> > > ____________________________________________________________ > Hotel > Hotel pics, info and virtual tours. Click here to book a hotel online. > http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/c?cp=ewJKbyZ61QloDsW_i_oQ_wAAJ1BdRO y9vkzpR6E_Fj7jZTbnAAYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAATRAAAAAA= > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob al.net _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/aznor99%40aol.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mildredrivera%40ya hoo.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jimi-law%40dc.rr.c om __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4659 (20091203) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4659 (20091203) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4660 (20091204) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4660 (20091204) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.426 / Virus Database: 270.14.93/2544 - Release Date: 12/04/09 07:32:00 From AZNOR99 at aol.com Fri Dec 4 23:19:51 2009 From: AZNOR99 at aol.com (AZNOR99 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 4 Dec 2009 18:19:51 EST Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel / Canes Message-ID: I'm not sure. DHS doesn't have jurisdiction over what happens on the planes themselves - that's Department of Transportation, so Craig might know. However, I know there are regs that prohibit loose items from being permitted to remain loose during take-off and landing. That's usually how the air carriers get us to give up our canes. I lay my cane along the fusalage as well, Millie, and no one has ever said a word about that either. In a message dated 12/4/2009 9:34:40 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, mildredrivera at yahoo.com writes: I prefer to use a long white cane. When I sit in the aisle, I just ask the person near the window if I can stow it there and no one has ever turned me down. I was wondering if anyone knows, maybe Ronza, if I have a right to have the cane at my reach? I maintain that I do, but don't know any reg or airline policy that actually says that I do. Have a blessed day !!! :), Millie --- On Fri, 12/4/09, Reyazuddin, Yasmin wrote: From: Reyazuddin, Yasmin Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel / Canes To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Date: Friday, December 4, 2009, 8:06 AM Hi Millie, It has happened to me too. I have given them the cane and they have placed in a secure place. I was in the ile seat and had no wall near me. They also put the cane in the overhead bin but are careful that it does not fall out. The airline staff are willing to help me get to the bathroom or bring me soft drinks. I am talking about long flights lasting 7 to 9 hours. Yasmin Reyazuddin Information & Referral unit Department of Health & human services 401 Hungerford Drive (1st floor) Rockville MD 20850 Phone 240-777-1245 (info line) 240-777-1556 (personal line) Fax: 240-777-4636 TTY: 240-777-1295 Office hours 8:30 am to 5:00 pm Languages English, Hindi, Urdu This message may contain protected health information or other information that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by return mail and destroy any copies of this material. Thank you. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Millie Rivera-Rau Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 10:19 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel / Canes I have a question. Lately my long white cane has been taken from me after I get on the plane. Sometimes I can convince the personnel that I should be permitted to keep it but other times I am not successful. Is there something that I can site that would get through to them? Or, am I required to relinquish it? For some reason it has been a problem more in the last two years then ever before. I push it to a point just after making a scene. smile. The thing that really gets me is that they want to put it in an overhead bin and usually it falls out as soon as the bin is opened and hits someone on the head! Then the other passengers realize I was right. Any thoughts. Millie --- On Wed, 12/2/09, AZNOR99 at aol.com wrote: From: AZNOR99 at aol.com Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org Date: Wednesday, December 2, 2009, 12:24 PM Hello, This is an interesting subject. TSA is generally not responsible for providing a traveler with a guide as a passenger goes through screening. You can always request a Companion Pass from the airline for someone to accompany you; however, it is at the discretion of the airline as to whether or not they grant this request. Most do grant the Pass as long as you give them a valid reason, and most accept accompanying a minor or passenger with a disability or elderly individual as a valid reason. You can request a Companion Pass from the airline at the time of check-in if you bring someone with you to drop you off - you don't necessarily have to let the airline know in advance that you plan to do this. If you want someone to meet you at the gate when you arrive though, you'll need to let the airline know in advance. This is because you won't actually be with the person when they obtain the Companion Pass, so the airline can't verify that they know you or that you'd want them to pick you up. Companions are subject to the same screening and security measures as passengers - valid State or Federal ID, human and belonging scans, etc. TSA does not have jurisdiction over Companion Pass issuance - that is at the discretion of the airlines - they are subject to the regs of the FAA. You can ask for a Guide at the airport as well. Generally airlines prefer you do this in advance, but you can certainly choose to make such a request when you arrive at the airport or land at your destination. If you don't let them know you need someone in advance though, you might have to wait longer for someone to arrive, as airlines try to have staff waiting for passengers about whom they know. We've all seen the line of wheel chairs and uniformed staff waiting when we deplane? Well, they're each usually assigned to a particular person, and they usually know who that person is ahead of time. Airlines, and sometimes airports, are increasingly creating "Passenger Assistance Departments," and escorting passengers is one of their primary functions. There are some airports that utilize the airport police or other airport staff as escorts rather than airline personnel. Sometimes this is because it is incredibly difficult to credential staff for all areas of an airport, which such staff need to possess. Sometimes it may be a small airport, and it would be more efficient to assign escort responsibilities to one person for all the airlines. Or there might be other reasons. However, TSOs - Transportation Security Officers) are trained in how to interact with disabled passengers. For example, if you place your cane on the conveyer belt, a TSO may offer to position you prior to entering the human scanner and reach out to hold your hands to guide you forward. Due to the nature of the scanning equipment, a passenger must not touch the scanning machine - it will not function properly if anything comes into contact with it. Some of us have had the experience of bumping the machine and setting it off in the past. If you run your cane through the baggage scanner and ask for it back to take through the human scanner, you have to be very careful, once again, not to tap the scanner walls with the cane - it will likely set the machine off. Also, if your cane has metal - many of us use metal tips - then it may cause the scanner to go off, necessitating the individual be referred to secondary screening or wanding. I've personally had the experience of placing my cane on the baggage scanning belt and walking toward the human scanner. I walked through the scanner very slowly and did not set it off. However, I was referred to secondary. I always ask why I'm being referred to Secondary (I'm in the business of wanting to know if I'm being discriminated against because of my religion, national origin, or disability). The answer I usually get (not always though, and I've got some funny stories about other times) is "it's random." I conveyed to the TSO that I could not move to the secondary screening area until someone retrieved my cane from the conveyer belt. He got it for me and asked, "Oh, is the reason you moved so slowly through the scanner because you are blind?" I answered that it was, and he told me I was free to go. I insisted on going to Secondary, and he said, "Well you don't need to. Your behavior isn't suspicious. I just thought it was because I didn't know you were being careful not to bump the machine since you couldn't see well." Part of their jobs as TSOs is to monitor suspicious behavior; part of my job is to convey the difference between suspicious behavior and cultural norms. Needless to say I insisted on going to Secondary because I wanted the chance to talk the issue through with the TSO. It was a teachable moment, and I think he really got there could be hundreds of reasons why someone might move slowly through a machine. But for those that have had really bad experiences at TSA or CBP checkpoints, there are a couple of different avenues you can take. If you believe you have been the subject of discrimination, you may file a CRCL (DHS Office for Civil Rights and Civil Liberties - and where I work) complaint. Go to _www.dhs.gov/civilliberties_ (http://www.dhs.gov/civilliberties) to download the form or send an email to _civil.liberties at dhs.gov_ (mailto:civil.liberties at dhs.gov) explaining what happened. Please be sure to give as much detail as possible, including the date, airport name, terminal number, time of day, the name of anyone you obtain, and a narrative explaining what happened. If you have a customer service issue - for example a TSO was rude or dismissive, you may ask for a supervisor, a comment card, or both. You can also contact your local field office after the fact to convey what happened. My message is substantially longer than I intended, and I apologize for the length. Regards, Ronza In a message dated 12/2/2009 4:25:21 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, ckrugman at sbcglobal.net writes: I travel frequently alone and the air lines and/or HSA provide needed assistence upon my request. including through security check points and picking up baggage and assistence with procuring ground transportation or to a waiting party. I have found HSA and airport staff to be very cooperative. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "stiehm.law" To: Cc: Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 12:57 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > In addition to the airlines, I have recently become curious as to what if > any, accommodations for the TSA makes with respect to disabled people > going through security and being picked up by somebody at the gate at the > terminal at the other end of the flight. For example, do they permit a > blind person who is traveling alone to be accompanied through security, > down to the airline check-in counter at the gate by a non-ticketed > person. > > At the other end, is a non-ticketed person permitted through security to > go to the gate to meet a blind person flying alone? > > If TSA does not provide for such accommodations do the airlines take it > on themselves to provide this service? > > Has anybody had any experience in this regard? Is the accommodation, if > any, voluntary on the part of the TSA and/or the airlines or is it > governed by regulation? > > Patrick H. Stiehm > Stiehm Law Office > Alexandria, VA 22309 > 703-360-1089 (Voice) > 703-935-8266 (Fax) > > > > Tue, 1 Dec 2009 11:30:37 -0800 "Russell J. Thomas, Jr." > writes: >> Off the top of my head, and without any new research, the only case >> I >> remember is a case challenging the accessibility of airline websites >> with >> respect to attempting to make reservations and ordering tickets on >> line. >> >> I also think that there are regulations on the subject, especially >> dealing >> with how disabled passengers are to be treated (or perhaps on some >> occasions >> mistreated). >> >> I often thought it would be a good idea for the NFB to put together >> a short >> guide book concerning travel, including air travel, based upon >> experiences >> of NFB members, to be used as a reference guide for blind people who >> use air >> travel. Certainly things have changed since 911--some changes for >> the good, >> and others not so good. >> >> >> >> >> Respectfully, >> >> >> >> Russell J. Thomas, Jr. >> >> THOMAS & ASSOCIATES >> >> www.californiaemployersattorneys.com >> >> >> >> Orange County Office >> >> 4121 Westerly Place, Suite 101 >> >> Newport Beach, California 92660 >> >> T: (949) 752-0101 >> >> F: (949) 257-4756 >> >> M: (949) 466-7238 >> >> >> >> Beverly Hills Office >> >> 9107 Wilshire Boulevard, Suite 450 >> >> Beverly Hills, California 90210 >> >> T: (310) 461-3561 >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf Of James Weisberg >> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 10:01 AM >> To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' >> Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel >> >> Hi Folks: >> >> >> >> Anyone on the lists have experience or knowledge regarding the ADA >> and suits >> against air carriers for violations available for quick consult? >> Thanks. >> >> >> >> James W. Weisberg, Esq. >> >> Law Office of J. William Weisberg >> >> 299 South Patencio Road #3 >> >> Palm Springs, California 92262 >> >> V: 916.425.1010 >> >> F: 916.374.7667 >> >> E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com >> >> Admitted in Wisconsin >> >> Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil >> Rights >> Advocacy for Children with Diabetes >> >> This message contains information which may be confidential and >> privileged. >> Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the >> addressee), >> you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any >> information >> contained in this message. If you have received this message in >> error, >> please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from >> your >> system. >> >> This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client >> relationship >> nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William >> Weisberg >> expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information >> in >> accordance with this disclaimer. >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for >> blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rthomas%40rjtla > wfi >> rm.com >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stiehm.law%40ju > no.com >> > > ____________________________________________________________ > Hotel > Hotel pics, info and virtual tours. Click here to book a hotel online. > http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/c?cp=ewJKbyZ61QloDsW_i_oQ_wAAJ1BdRO y9vkzpR6E_Fj7jZTbnAAYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAATRAAAAAA= > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob al.net _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/aznor99%40aol.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mildredrivera%40ya hoo.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/yasmin.reyazuddin% 40montgomerycountymd.gov _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mildredrivera%40ya hoo.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/aznor99%40aol.com From cdanielsen8 at aol.com Fri Dec 4 23:55:26 2009 From: cdanielsen8 at aol.com (Chris Danielsen) Date: Fri, 4 Dec 2009 18:55:26 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel In-Reply-To: <4B8F57570DE6486A93743958EB603CAC@StevePC> References: <4AB1D9B2FD1142EC9CAFDEFD47ACA108@Scorpio13> <4B8F57570DE6486A93743958EB603CAC@StevePC> Message-ID: I went exploring the first day and figured out the layout. The Carnival Pride was laid out in a fairly straightforward manner. It had several decks, but there was a listing in the Braille brochure of what was on each one so that you could find things. The cabin numbers and elevator buttons were all Brailled. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 7:52 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel That is very interesting. How did you navigate around an unfamiliar large ship? Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Danielsen" To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 7:08 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > Interesting observations about Carnival. When I went on the cruise that > was > organized by the NFB of Colorado in March, we had all of the Braille > materials in our cabins. Our waiter was very nice about reading the menus > each evening, even though he didn't speak English that well. I will > definitely ask for the menus on CD next time. Also, I wasn't aware there > was > any way to get the daily newsletter, so I'll be sure to ask about that the > next time I go. And I do intend to cruise again. When I was booking tours, > the guy at the desk casually informed me that he would let the tour > providers know that I was blind. This raised a red flag with me and I > asked > him why. He said it was to make sure that the providers could accommodate > and that there would be no access issues. I explained that blind people > have > very few "access issues" and that he was giving the providers an > opportunity > to discriminate. I probed him a little on whether he thought there were > certain things a blind guest couldn't do. He informed me that he had seen > blind guests participate in all kinds of activities, I think he > specifically > mentioned cliff diving, and was not trying to discriminate. I let it go. > None of the providers I did tours with gave me or any of the other NFB > folks > any problems, and I did not hear from other NFB friends about any > problems. > Of course, the tours I went on were not particularly strenuous; I am a > wimp. > I had some concerns about the dolphin encounter, but that went fine. In > fact, the trainer even made a point of letting me and a friend touch the > dolphin's teeth while he held her mouth open (they normally discourage > folks > from touching the mouth.) He didn't let us touch the nose or blowhole, > which > are off limits. I plan to try swimming with dolphins next time; the > dolphin > encounter is when you are on a shallow platform and the dolphin swims up > to > you. All of the Carnival folks were extremely friendly and I think they > were > trying to do the right thing. I came away with a mostly favorable > impression > of the company, although it still concerns me that they "flag" disabled > guests even if they really are doing it only to make sure that the guest > has > a good experience. I am sure that some contractors do discriminate, and > while Carnival is of course protecting itself, I wonder if they have a > legal > point. Other countries do not necessarily have the disability laws that we > do in the USA, and once you are on shore at a foreign port of call I am > not > sure U.S. law would "reach" businesses there. It reaches foreign cruise > lines only because their ships have ports of call in the U.S., if I > understand the law correctly. Carnival could make a point of not > contracting > with vendors who discriminate, however, and that would make a difference. > > Chris > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of AZNOR99 at aol.com > Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 8:56 AM > To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > > A couple of my blind friends and I are avid cruisers - we try to go at > least > once a year, and Carnival is our cruiseline of choice. In 2007, they > refused to allow us to sign up for a scuba diving excursion because of our > blindness - they said we'd be dangerous to other scuba divers. This was > absurd for all the obvious reasons and because we're all strong swimmers > and most of us are accomplished scuba divers. Carnival said that since > they contract with local venders to provide the excursions, and since > those > venders aren't in the United States, then the ADA does not apply. We > tried > to educate the cruise line, and I think they got it. But the scuba diving > contract holder did not and would not let us participate no matter what we > said. > I wish we'd have fought harder. > > That same year, we had a lot of trouble getting the onboard materials in > Braille or electronic formatting. We followed up with Corporate, and by > the time we arrived for our 2008 cruise, everything had been sorted out to > our liking in terms of materials. They now will send you a CD with menus, > guide books, and all the other material that's in the state room, and > they'll either Braille out the daily newsletter or put it on a flash drive > for you. > > In terms of excursions, we just always find an outside vender ourselves > now. > We can discuss blindness beforehand if we want, and we end up not feeling > beholden to the cruiseline for our fun off-ship. And we save a lot of > money in the process. > > My point is that I'm not sure if the cruiselines are all totally > accessible > now, but I think Carnival is doing a much better job then it used to do. > Also, I have no idea if the contracting venders in the ports are > discriminating against blind people - I bet they still are. > > Ronza > > > > In a message dated 12/3/2009 2:36:49 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, > ckrugman at sbcglobal.net writes: > > That's good to know as I think that Carnival was one of the cruise lines > that had issues regarding blind travelers several years ago. > Chuck > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc." > > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 2:40 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > > >> Chuck, I sell cruises amongst other things I do; mostly on Carnival; > they >> have been extremely good with all my passengers whether disabled or not. >> >> I have three groups going out in July and August of 2010, narrowly > missed >> a chance to get a group out to Alaska. >> >> Sincerely, >> Olusegun >> Denver, Colorado >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob > al.net > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/aznor99%40aol.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. > com > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature > database 4658 (20091203) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature > database 4659 (20091203) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in sightbb.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.426 / Virus Database: 270.14.92/2543 - Release Date: 12/03/09 19:36:00 _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4661 (20091204) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4661 (20091204) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From cdanielsen8 at aol.com Sat Dec 5 00:26:31 2009 From: cdanielsen8 at aol.com (Chris Danielsen) Date: Fri, 4 Dec 2009 19:26:31 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] state computer system case In-Reply-To: <66954123AD474303BCB4E25041063AC8@D3J75Z91> References: <66954123AD474303BCB4E25041063AC8@D3J75Z91> Message-ID: <9DED4B7FFF0E43C38271B04C0056EEAD@Scorpio13> There have been a couple, one against Arkansas which I know was settled and one against Texas which I don't know the status of. I think I have some of the documents and will get them to you on Monday if noone else has. Chris -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Patti Gregory-Chang Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 8:18 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: [blindlaw] state computer system case I know that there was a big computer access case against a state, maybe Arizona or Arkansas, in the past few years. Does anyone know the name of the case or have a copy of the settlement if any? P.S. National Federation of the Blind of Illinois is now on twitter at www.twitter.com/nfbi. We also have a facebook page. Just search for our full name. Patti Gregory-Chang President, National Federation of the Blind of Illinois pattichang at att.net www.nfbofillinois.org _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4656 (20091202) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4661 (20091204) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From editor.nftb at gmail.com Sat Dec 5 00:32:38 2009 From: editor.nftb at gmail.com (Will May) Date: Fri, 4 Dec 2009 19:32:38 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Canes on Planes .... I am not blind, and actually am an Air Transport Pilot Message-ID: Hi all; I will check the FAR/AIM (Federal Aviation Regulations/Airmen's Information Manual) for the cane question. Does anyone here know any ruling that requires newspapers to be accessible to the blind? I don't fly for pay anymore, I am editing a narrated newspaper; www.NewspapersForTheBlind.ORG for the hearing-impaired blind. Nice evening, Will May From AZNOR99 at aol.com Sat Dec 5 00:42:04 2009 From: AZNOR99 at aol.com (AZNOR99 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 4 Dec 2009 19:42:04 EST Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel/cruises Message-ID: We arranged for a tour of the ship prior to the muster drill. They do this for anyone that asks, not only folks with disabilities. It really helped. In a message dated 12/4/2009 7:31:55 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, cdanielsen8 at aol.com writes: I went exploring the first day and figured out the layout. The Carnival Pride was laid out in a fairly straightforward manner. It had several decks, but there was a listing in the Braille brochure of what was on each one so that you could find things. The cabin numbers and elevator buttons were all Brailled. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 7:52 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel That is very interesting. How did you navigate around an unfamiliar large ship? Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Danielsen" To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 7:08 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > Interesting observations about Carnival. When I went on the cruise that > was > organized by the NFB of Colorado in March, we had all of the Braille > materials in our cabins. Our waiter was very nice about reading the menus > each evening, even though he didn't speak English that well. I will > definitely ask for the menus on CD next time. Also, I wasn't aware there > was > any way to get the daily newsletter, so I'll be sure to ask about that the > next time I go. And I do intend to cruise again. When I was booking tours, > the guy at the desk casually informed me that he would let the tour > providers know that I was blind. This raised a red flag with me and I > asked > him why. He said it was to make sure that the providers could accommodate > and that there would be no access issues. I explained that blind people > have > very few "access issues" and that he was giving the providers an > opportunity > to discriminate. I probed him a little on whether he thought there were > certain things a blind guest couldn't do. He informed me that he had seen > blind guests participate in all kinds of activities, I think he > specifically > mentioned cliff diving, and was not trying to discriminate. I let it go. > None of the providers I did tours with gave me or any of the other NFB > folks > any problems, and I did not hear from other NFB friends about any > problems. > Of course, the tours I went on were not particularly strenuous; I am a > wimp. > I had some concerns about the dolphin encounter, but that went fine. In > fact, the trainer even made a point of letting me and a friend touch the > dolphin's teeth while he held her mouth open (they normally discourage > folks > from touching the mouth.) He didn't let us touch the nose or blowhole, > which > are off limits. I plan to try swimming with dolphins next time; the > dolphin > encounter is when you are on a shallow platform and the dolphin swims up > to > you. All of the Carnival folks were extremely friendly and I think they > were > trying to do the right thing. I came away with a mostly favorable > impression > of the company, although it still concerns me that they "flag" disabled > guests even if they really are doing it only to make sure that the guest > has > a good experience. I am sure that some contractors do discriminate, and > while Carnival is of course protecting itself, I wonder if they have a > legal > point. Other countries do not necessarily have the disability laws that we > do in the USA, and once you are on shore at a foreign port of call I am > not > sure U.S. law would "reach" businesses there. It reaches foreign cruise > lines only because their ships have ports of call in the U.S., if I > understand the law correctly. Carnival could make a point of not > contracting > with vendors who discriminate, however, and that would make a difference. > > Chris > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of AZNOR99 at aol.com > Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 8:56 AM > To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > > A couple of my blind friends and I are avid cruisers - we try to go at > least > once a year, and Carnival is our cruiseline of choice. In 2007, they > refused to allow us to sign up for a scuba diving excursion because of our > blindness - they said we'd be dangerous to other scuba divers. This was > absurd for all the obvious reasons and because we're all strong swimmers > and most of us are accomplished scuba divers. Carnival said that since > they contract with local venders to provide the excursions, and since > those > venders aren't in the United States, then the ADA does not apply. We > tried > to educate the cruise line, and I think they got it. But the scuba diving > contract holder did not and would not let us participate no matter what we > said. > I wish we'd have fought harder. > > That same year, we had a lot of trouble getting the onboard materials in > Braille or electronic formatting. We followed up with Corporate, and by > the time we arrived for our 2008 cruise, everything had been sorted out to > our liking in terms of materials. They now will send you a CD with menus, > guide books, and all the other material that's in the state room, and > they'll either Braille out the daily newsletter or put it on a flash drive > for you. > > In terms of excursions, we just always find an outside vender ourselves > now. > We can discuss blindness beforehand if we want, and we end up not feeling > beholden to the cruiseline for our fun off-ship. And we save a lot of > money in the process. > > My point is that I'm not sure if the cruiselines are all totally > accessible > now, but I think Carnival is doing a much better job then it used to do. > Also, I have no idea if the contracting venders in the ports are > discriminating against blind people - I bet they still are. > > Ronza > > > > In a message dated 12/3/2009 2:36:49 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, > ckrugman at sbcglobal.net writes: > > That's good to know as I think that Carnival was one of the cruise lines > that had issues regarding blind travelers several years ago. > Chuck > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc." > > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 2:40 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > > >> Chuck, I sell cruises amongst other things I do; mostly on Carnival; > they >> have been extremely good with all my passengers whether disabled or not. >> >> I have three groups going out in July and August of 2010, narrowly > missed >> a chance to get a group out to Alaska. >> >> Sincerely, >> Olusegun >> Denver, Colorado >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob > al.net > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/aznor99%40aol.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. > com > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature > database 4658 (20091203) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature > database 4659 (20091203) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in sightbb.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.426 / Virus Database: 270.14.92/2543 - Release Date: 12/03/09 19:36:00 _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4661 (20091204) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4661 (20091204) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/aznor99%40aol.com From stevep.deeley at insightbb.com Sat Dec 5 01:11:32 2009 From: stevep.deeley at insightbb.com (Steve P. Deeley) Date: Fri, 4 Dec 2009 20:11:32 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel In-Reply-To: References: <4AB1D9B2FD1142EC9CAFDEFD47ACA108@Scorpio13> <4B8F57570DE6486A93743958EB603CAC@StevePC> Message-ID: <92534B77C8CE4CD3BB61A886D19D6E20@StevePC> I think that is remarkable!!! I've heard that most sighted folks can't find their way around a large cruise ship Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Danielsen" To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 6:55 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel >I went exploring the first day and figured out the layout. The Carnival > Pride was laid out in a fairly straightforward manner. It had several > decks, > but there was a listing in the Braille brochure of what was on each one so > that you could find things. The cabin numbers and elevator buttons were > all > Brailled. > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley > Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 7:52 PM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > > That is very interesting. How did you navigate around an unfamiliar large > ship? > > Steve > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Chris Danielsen" > To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" > Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 7:08 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > > >> Interesting observations about Carnival. When I went on the cruise that >> was >> organized by the NFB of Colorado in March, we had all of the Braille >> materials in our cabins. Our waiter was very nice about reading the menus >> each evening, even though he didn't speak English that well. I will >> definitely ask for the menus on CD next time. Also, I wasn't aware there >> was >> any way to get the daily newsletter, so I'll be sure to ask about that >> the >> next time I go. And I do intend to cruise again. When I was booking >> tours, >> the guy at the desk casually informed me that he would let the tour >> providers know that I was blind. This raised a red flag with me and I >> asked >> him why. He said it was to make sure that the providers could accommodate >> and that there would be no access issues. I explained that blind people >> have >> very few "access issues" and that he was giving the providers an >> opportunity >> to discriminate. I probed him a little on whether he thought there were >> certain things a blind guest couldn't do. He informed me that he had seen >> blind guests participate in all kinds of activities, I think he >> specifically >> mentioned cliff diving, and was not trying to discriminate. I let it go. >> None of the providers I did tours with gave me or any of the other NFB >> folks >> any problems, and I did not hear from other NFB friends about any >> problems. >> Of course, the tours I went on were not particularly strenuous; I am a >> wimp. >> I had some concerns about the dolphin encounter, but that went fine. In >> fact, the trainer even made a point of letting me and a friend touch the >> dolphin's teeth while he held her mouth open (they normally discourage >> folks >> from touching the mouth.) He didn't let us touch the nose or blowhole, >> which >> are off limits. I plan to try swimming with dolphins next time; the >> dolphin >> encounter is when you are on a shallow platform and the dolphin swims up >> to >> you. All of the Carnival folks were extremely friendly and I think they >> were >> trying to do the right thing. I came away with a mostly favorable >> impression >> of the company, although it still concerns me that they "flag" disabled >> guests even if they really are doing it only to make sure that the guest >> has >> a good experience. I am sure that some contractors do discriminate, and >> while Carnival is of course protecting itself, I wonder if they have a >> legal >> point. Other countries do not necessarily have the disability laws that >> we >> do in the USA, and once you are on shore at a foreign port of call I am >> not >> sure U.S. law would "reach" businesses there. It reaches foreign cruise >> lines only because their ships have ports of call in the U.S., if I >> understand the law correctly. Carnival could make a point of not >> contracting >> with vendors who discriminate, however, and that would make a difference. >> >> Chris >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf Of AZNOR99 at aol.com >> Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 8:56 AM >> To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel >> >> A couple of my blind friends and I are avid cruisers - we try to go at >> least >> once a year, and Carnival is our cruiseline of choice. In 2007, they >> refused to allow us to sign up for a scuba diving excursion because of >> our >> blindness - they said we'd be dangerous to other scuba divers. This was >> absurd for all the obvious reasons and because we're all strong swimmers >> and most of us are accomplished scuba divers. Carnival said that since >> they contract with local venders to provide the excursions, and since >> those >> venders aren't in the United States, then the ADA does not apply. We >> tried >> to educate the cruise line, and I think they got it. But the scuba >> diving >> contract holder did not and would not let us participate no matter what >> we >> said. >> I wish we'd have fought harder. >> >> That same year, we had a lot of trouble getting the onboard materials in >> Braille or electronic formatting. We followed up with Corporate, and by >> the time we arrived for our 2008 cruise, everything had been sorted out >> to >> our liking in terms of materials. They now will send you a CD with >> menus, >> guide books, and all the other material that's in the state room, and >> they'll either Braille out the daily newsletter or put it on a flash >> drive >> for you. >> >> In terms of excursions, we just always find an outside vender ourselves >> now. >> We can discuss blindness beforehand if we want, and we end up not feeling >> beholden to the cruiseline for our fun off-ship. And we save a lot of >> money in the process. >> >> My point is that I'm not sure if the cruiselines are all totally >> accessible >> now, but I think Carnival is doing a much better job then it used to do. >> Also, I have no idea if the contracting venders in the ports are >> discriminating against blind people - I bet they still are. >> >> Ronza >> >> >> >> In a message dated 12/3/2009 2:36:49 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, >> ckrugman at sbcglobal.net writes: >> >> That's good to know as I think that Carnival was one of the cruise lines >> that had issues regarding blind travelers several years ago. >> Chuck >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc." >> >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 2:40 PM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel >> >> >>> Chuck, I sell cruises amongst other things I do; mostly on Carnival; >> they >>> have been extremely good with all my passengers whether disabled or >>> not. >>> >>> I have three groups going out in July and August of 2010, narrowly >> missed >>> a chance to get a group out to Alaska. >>> >>> Sincerely, >>> Olusegun >>> Denver, Colorado >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob >> al.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/aznor99%40aol.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. >> com >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >> signature >> database 4658 (20091203) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >> signature >> database 4659 (20091203) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in > sightbb.com > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.426 / Virus Database: 270.14.92/2543 - Release Date: 12/03/09 > 19:36:00 > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. > com > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature > database 4661 (20091204) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature > database 4661 (20091204) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.426 / Virus Database: 270.14.94/2545 - Release Date: 12/04/09 19:34:00 From pattichang at att.net Sat Dec 5 13:46:09 2009 From: pattichang at att.net (Patti Gregory-Chang) Date: Sat, 5 Dec 2009 07:46:09 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel / Canes References: Message-ID: <27D47090A64E4986A8D5EFBF6EC655D0@D3J75Z91> There is a subsection e in the regs that allows us to keep our canes as long as they are by the window. P.S. National Federation of the Blind of Illinois is now on twitter at www.twitter.com/nfbi. We also have a facebook page. Just search for our full name. Patti Gregory-Chang President, National Federation of the Blind of Illinois pattichang at att.net www.nfbofillinois.org ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 5:19 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel / Canes > I'm not sure. DHS doesn't have jurisdiction over what happens on the > planes themselves - that's Department of Transportation, so Craig might > know. > However, I know there are regs that prohibit loose items from being > permitted to remain loose during take-off and landing. That's usually how > the air > carriers get us to give up our canes. I lay my cane along the fusalage > as > well, Millie, and no one has ever said a word about that either. > > > > In a message dated 12/4/2009 9:34:40 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, > mildredrivera at yahoo.com writes: > > I prefer to use a long white cane. When I sit in the aisle, I just ask > the > person near the window if I can stow it there and no one has ever turned > me down. I was wondering if anyone knows, maybe Ronza, if I have a right > to > have the cane at my reach? I maintain that I do, but don't know any reg > or > airline policy that actually says that I do. > > Have a blessed day !!! :), Millie > > --- On Fri, 12/4/09, Reyazuddin, Yasmin > wrote: > > > From: Reyazuddin, Yasmin > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel / Canes > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Date: Friday, December 4, 2009, 8:06 AM > > > Hi Millie, > It has happened to me too. I have given them the cane and they have > placed > in a secure place. I was in the ile seat and had no wall near me. They > also put the cane in the overhead bin but are careful that it does not > fall > out. The airline staff are willing to help me get to the bathroom or > bring me > soft drinks. I am talking about long flights lasting 7 to 9 hours. > > Yasmin Reyazuddin > Information & Referral unit > Department of Health & human services > 401 Hungerford Drive (1st floor) > Rockville MD 20850 > Phone 240-777-1245 (info line) > 240-777-1556 (personal line) > Fax: 240-777-4636 > TTY: 240-777-1295 > > Office hours 8:30 am to 5:00 pm > > Languages English, Hindi, Urdu > > This message may contain protected health information or other > information > that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended > recipient, > please contact the sender by return mail and destroy any copies of this > material. > > Thank you. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of Millie Rivera-Rau > Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 10:19 PM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel / Canes > > I have a question. Lately my long white cane has been taken from me after > I get on the plane. Sometimes I can convince the personnel that I should > be > permitted to keep it but other times I am not successful. Is there > something that I can site that would get through to them? Or, am I > required to > relinquish it? For some reason it has been a problem more in the last two > years then ever before. I push it to a point just after making a scene. > smile. > The thing that really gets me is that they want to put it in an overhead > bin and usually it falls out as soon as the bin is opened and hits > someone on > the head! Then the other passengers realize I was right. Any thoughts. > > Millie > > > > > > --- On Wed, 12/2/09, AZNOR99 at aol.com wrote: > > > From: AZNOR99 at aol.com > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org > Date: Wednesday, December 2, 2009, 12:24 PM > > > Hello, > > This is an interesting subject. TSA is generally not responsible for > providing a traveler with a guide as a passenger goes through screening. > You > can always request a Companion Pass from the airline for someone to > accompany you; however, it is at the discretion of the airline as to > whether or not > they grant this request. Most do grant the Pass as long as you give > them > a valid reason, and most accept accompanying a minor or passenger with a > disability or elderly individual as a valid reason. You can request a > Companion Pass from the airline at the time of check-in if you bring > someone with > you to drop you off - you don't necessarily have to let the airline know > in advance that you plan to do this. If you want someone to meet you at > the > gate when you arrive though, you'll need to let the airline know in > advance. This is because you won't actually be with the person when > they > obtain > the Companion Pass, so the airline can't verify that they know you or > that > you'd want them to pick you up. Companions are subject to the same > screening and security measures as passengers - valid State or Federal > ID, human > and belonging scans, etc. TSA does not have jurisdiction over Companion > Pass issuance - that is at the discretion of the airlines - they are > subject > to the regs of the FAA. > > You can ask for a Guide at the airport as well. Generally airlines > prefer > you do this in advance, but you can certainly choose to make such a > request when you arrive at the airport or land at your destination. If > you don't > let them know you need someone in advance though, you might have to wait > longer for someone to arrive, as airlines try to have staff waiting for > passengers about whom they know. We've all seen the line of wheel chairs > and > uniformed staff waiting when we deplane? Well, they're each usually > assigned to a particular person, and they usually know who that person is > ahead of > time. Airlines, and sometimes airports, are increasingly creating > "Passenger Assistance Departments," and escorting passengers is one of > their > primary functions. > > There are some airports that utilize the airport police or other airport > staff as escorts rather than airline personnel. Sometimes this is > because > > it is incredibly difficult to credential staff for all areas of an > airport, > which such staff need to possess. Sometimes it may be a small airport, > and > it would be more efficient to assign escort responsibilities to one > person > for all the airlines. Or there might be other reasons. > > However, TSOs - Transportation Security Officers) are trained in how to > interact with disabled passengers. For example, if you place your cane > on > > the conveyer belt, a TSO may offer to position you prior to entering the > human > scanner and reach out to hold your hands to guide you forward. Due to > the > nature of the scanning equipment, a passenger must not touch the scanning > machine - it will not function properly if anything comes into contact > with > it. Some of us have had the experience of bumping the machine and > setting > it off in the past. > > If you run your cane through the baggage scanner and ask for it back to > take through the human scanner, you have to be very careful, once again, > not > to tap the scanner walls with the cane - it will likely set the machine > off. > Also, if your cane has metal - many of us use metal tips - then it may > cause the scanner to go off, necessitating the individual be referred to > secondary screening or wanding. > > I've personally had the experience of placing my cane on the baggage > scanning belt and walking toward the human scanner. I walked through the > scanner very slowly and did not set it off. However, I was referred to > secondary. I always ask why I'm being referred to Secondary (I'm in the > business of > wanting to know if I'm being discriminated against because of my > religion, > national origin, or disability). The answer I usually get (not always > though, and I've got some funny stories about other times) is "it's > random." > I conveyed to the TSO that I could not move to the secondary screening > area > until someone retrieved my cane from the conveyer belt. He got it for > me > and asked, "Oh, is the reason you moved so slowly through the scanner > because you are blind?" I answered that it was, and he told me I was > free > to go. > I insisted on going to Secondary, and he said, "Well you don't need to. > Your behavior isn't suspicious. I just thought it was because I didn't > know > you were being careful not to bump the machine since you couldn't see > well." Part of their jobs as TSOs is to monitor suspicious behavior; > part > of my > job is to convey the difference between suspicious behavior and cultural > > norms. Needless to say I insisted on going to Secondary because I wanted > the chance to talk the issue through with the TSO. It was a teachable > moment, > and I think he really got there could be hundreds of reasons why someone > might move slowly through a machine. > > But for those that have had really bad experiences at TSA or CBP > checkpoints, there are a couple of different avenues you can take. If > you > believe > you have been the subject of discrimination, you may file a CRCL (DHS > Office > for Civil Rights and Civil Liberties - and where I work) complaint. Go > to > _www.dhs.gov/civilliberties_ (http://www.dhs.gov/civilliberties) to > download the form or send an email to _civil.liberties at dhs.gov_ > (mailto:civil.liberties at dhs.gov) explaining what happened. Please be > sure to give as much > detail as possible, including the date, airport name, terminal number, > time > of day, the name of anyone you obtain, and a narrative explaining what > happened. If you have a customer service issue - for example a TSO was > rude > or dismissive, you may ask for a supervisor, a comment card, or both. > You > can also contact your local field office after the fact to convey what > happened. > > My message is substantially longer than I intended, and I apologize for > the > length. > > Regards, > Ronza > > > > > In a message dated 12/2/2009 4:25:21 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, > ckrugman at sbcglobal.net writes: > > I travel frequently alone and the air lines and/or HSA provide needed > assistence upon my request. including through security check points and > picking up baggage and assistence with procuring ground transportation > or > to > a waiting party. I have found HSA and airport staff to be very > cooperative. > Chuck > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "stiehm.law" > To: > Cc: > Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 12:57 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > > >> In addition to the airlines, I have recently become curious as to what > if >> any, accommodations for the TSA makes with respect to disabled people >> going through security and being picked up by somebody at the gate at > the >> terminal at the other end of the flight. For example, do they permit a >> blind person who is traveling alone to be accompanied through > security, >> down to the airline check-in counter at the gate by a non-ticketed >> person. >> >> At the other end, is a non-ticketed person permitted through security >> to >> go to the gate to meet a blind person flying alone? >> >> If TSA does not provide for such accommodations do the airlines take it >> on themselves to provide this service? >> >> Has anybody had any experience in this regard? Is the accommodation, if >> any, voluntary on the part of the TSA and/or the airlines or is it >> governed by regulation? >> >> Patrick H. Stiehm >> Stiehm Law Office >> Alexandria, VA 22309 >> 703-360-1089 (Voice) >> 703-935-8266 (Fax) >> >> >> >> Tue, 1 Dec 2009 11:30:37 -0800 "Russell J. Thomas, Jr." >> writes: >>> Off the top of my head, and without any new research, the only case >>> I >>> remember is a case challenging the accessibility of airline websites >>> with >>> respect to attempting to make reservations and ordering tickets on >>> line. >>> >>> I also think that there are regulations on the subject, especially >>> dealing >>> with how disabled passengers are to be treated (or perhaps on some >>> occasions >>> mistreated). >>> >>> I often thought it would be a good idea for the NFB to put together >>> a short >>> guide book concerning travel, including air travel, based upon >>> experiences >>> of NFB members, to be used as a reference guide for blind people who >>> use air >>> travel. Certainly things have changed since 911--some changes for >>> the good, >>> and others not so good. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Respectfully, >>> >>> >>> >>> Russell J. Thomas, Jr. >>> >>> THOMAS & ASSOCIATES >>> >>> www.californiaemployersattorneys.com >>> >>> >>> >>> Orange County Office >>> >>> 4121 Westerly Place, Suite 101 >>> >>> Newport Beach, California 92660 >>> >>> T: (949) 752-0101 >>> >>> F: (949) 257-4756 >>> >>> M: (949) 466-7238 >>> >>> >>> >>> Beverly Hills Office >>> >>> 9107 Wilshire Boulevard, Suite 450 >>> >>> Beverly Hills, California 90210 >>> >>> T: (310) 461-3561 >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>> Behalf Of James Weisberg >>> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 10:01 AM >>> To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' >>> Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel >>> >>> Hi Folks: >>> >>> >>> >>> Anyone on the lists have experience or knowledge regarding the ADA >>> and suits >>> against air carriers for violations available for quick consult? >>> Thanks. >>> >>> >>> >>> James W. Weisberg, Esq. >>> >>> Law Office of J. William Weisberg >>> >>> 299 South Patencio Road #3 >>> >>> Palm Springs, California 92262 >>> >>> V: 916.425.1010 >>> >>> F: 916.374.7667 >>> >>> E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com >>> >>> Admitted in Wisconsin >>> >>> Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil >>> Rights >>> Advocacy for Children with Diabetes >>> >>> This message contains information which may be confidential and >>> privileged. >>> Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the >>> addressee), >>> you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any >>> information >>> contained in this message. If you have received this message in >>> error, >>> please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from >>> your >>> system. >>> >>> This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client >>> relationship >>> nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William >>> Weisberg >>> expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information >>> in >>> accordance with this disclaimer. >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> blindlaw: >>> >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rthomas%40rjtla >> wfi >>> rm.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for blindlaw: >>> >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stiehm.law%40ju >> no.com >>> >> >> ____________________________________________________________ >> Hotel >> Hotel pics, info and virtual tours. Click here to book a hotel online. >> > http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/c?cp=ewJKbyZ61QloDsW_i_oQ_wAAJ1BdRO > y9vkzpR6E_Fj7jZTbnAAYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAATRAAAAAA= >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob > al.net > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/aznor99%40aol.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mildredrivera%40ya > hoo.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/yasmin.reyazuddin% > 40montgomerycountymd.gov > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mildredrivera%40ya > hoo.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/aznor99%40aol.com > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pattichang%40att.net From stevep.deeley at insightbb.com Sat Dec 5 14:30:54 2009 From: stevep.deeley at insightbb.com (Steve P. Deeley) Date: Sat, 5 Dec 2009 09:30:54 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel/cruises In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <529DD1D6839D461DB9D1CA95CD612986@StevePC> That is pretty good. Those ships are pretty large and getting bigger. Steve ----- Original Message --- -- From: To: Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 7:42 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel/cruises > We arranged for a tour of the ship prior to the muster drill. They do > this for anyone that asks, not only folks with disabilities. It really > helped. > > > > > In a message dated 12/4/2009 7:31:55 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, > cdanielsen8 at aol.com writes: > > I went exploring the first day and figured out the layout. The Carnival > Pride was laid out in a fairly straightforward manner. It had several > decks, > but there was a listing in the Braille brochure of what was on each one > so > that you could find things. The cabin numbers and elevator buttons were > all > Brailled. > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley > Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 7:52 PM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > > That is very interesting. How did you navigate around an unfamiliar > large > ship? > > Steve > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Chris Danielsen" > To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" > Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 7:08 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > > >> Interesting observations about Carnival. When I went on the cruise that >> was >> organized by the NFB of Colorado in March, we had all of the Braille >> materials in our cabins. Our waiter was very nice about reading the >> menus >> each evening, even though he didn't speak English that well. I will >> definitely ask for the menus on CD next time. Also, I wasn't aware there >> was >> any way to get the daily newsletter, so I'll be sure to ask about that > the >> next time I go. And I do intend to cruise again. When I was booking > tours, >> the guy at the desk casually informed me that he would let the tour >> providers know that I was blind. This raised a red flag with me and I >> asked >> him why. He said it was to make sure that the providers could >> accommodate >> and that there would be no access issues. I explained that blind people >> have >> very few "access issues" and that he was giving the providers an >> opportunity >> to discriminate. I probed him a little on whether he thought there were >> certain things a blind guest couldn't do. He informed me that he had >> seen >> blind guests participate in all kinds of activities, I think he >> specifically >> mentioned cliff diving, and was not trying to discriminate. I let it go. >> None of the providers I did tours with gave me or any of the other NFB >> folks >> any problems, and I did not hear from other NFB friends about any >> problems. >> Of course, the tours I went on were not particularly strenuous; I am a >> wimp. >> I had some concerns about the dolphin encounter, but that went fine. In >> fact, the trainer even made a point of letting me and a friend touch the >> dolphin's teeth while he held her mouth open (they normally discourage >> folks >> from touching the mouth.) He didn't let us touch the nose or blowhole, >> which >> are off limits. I plan to try swimming with dolphins next time; the >> dolphin >> encounter is when you are on a shallow platform and the dolphin swims up > >> to >> you. All of the Carnival folks were extremely friendly and I think they >> were >> trying to do the right thing. I came away with a mostly favorable >> impression >> of the company, although it still concerns me that they "flag" disabled >> guests even if they really are doing it only to make sure that the guest >> has >> a good experience. I am sure that some contractors do discriminate, and >> while Carnival is of course protecting itself, I wonder if they have a >> legal >> point. Other countries do not necessarily have the disability laws that > we >> do in the USA, and once you are on shore at a foreign port of call I am >> not >> sure U.S. law would "reach" businesses there. It reaches foreign cruise >> lines only because their ships have ports of call in the U.S., if I >> understand the law correctly. Carnival could make a point of not >> contracting >> with vendors who discriminate, however, and that would make a > difference. >> >> Chris >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >> On >> Behalf Of AZNOR99 at aol.com >> Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 8:56 AM >> To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel >> >> A couple of my blind friends and I are avid cruisers - we try to go at >> least >> once a year, and Carnival is our cruiseline of choice. In 2007, they >> refused to allow us to sign up for a scuba diving excursion because of > our >> blindness - they said we'd be dangerous to other scuba divers. This was >> absurd for all the obvious reasons and because we're all strong swimmers >> and most of us are accomplished scuba divers. Carnival said that since >> they contract with local venders to provide the excursions, and since >> those >> venders aren't in the United States, then the ADA does not apply. We >> tried >> to educate the cruise line, and I think they got it. But the scuba > diving >> contract holder did not and would not let us participate no matter what > we >> said. >> I wish we'd have fought harder. >> >> That same year, we had a lot of trouble getting the onboard materials in >> Braille or electronic formatting. We followed up with Corporate, and by >> the time we arrived for our 2008 cruise, everything had been sorted out > to >> our liking in terms of materials. They now will send you a CD with > menus, >> guide books, and all the other material that's in the state room, and >> they'll either Braille out the daily newsletter or put it on a flash > drive >> for you. >> >> In terms of excursions, we just always find an outside vender ourselves >> now. >> We can discuss blindness beforehand if we want, and we end up not >> feeling >> beholden to the cruiseline for our fun off-ship. And we save a lot of >> money in the process. >> >> My point is that I'm not sure if the cruiselines are all totally >> accessible >> now, but I think Carnival is doing a much better job then it used to do. >> Also, I have no idea if the contracting venders in the ports are >> discriminating against blind people - I bet they still are. >> >> Ronza >> >> >> >> In a message dated 12/3/2009 2:36:49 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, >> ckrugman at sbcglobal.net writes: >> >> That's good to know as I think that Carnival was one of the cruise >> lines >> that had issues regarding blind travelers several years ago. >> Chuck >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc." >> >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 2:40 PM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel >> >> >>> Chuck, I sell cruises amongst other things I do; mostly on Carnival; >> they >>> have been extremely good with all my passengers whether disabled or > not. >>> >>> I have three groups going out in July and August of 2010, narrowly >> missed >>> a chance to get a group out to Alaska. >>> >>> Sincerely, >>> Olusegun >>> Denver, Colorado >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob >> al.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/aznor99%40aol.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. >> com >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >> signature >> database 4658 (20091203) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >> signature >> database 4659 (20091203) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in > sightbb.com > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.426 / Virus Database: 270.14.92/2543 - Release Date: > 12/03/09 > > 19:36:00 > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. > com > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature > database 4661 (20091204) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature > database 4661 (20091204) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/aznor99%40aol.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.426 / Virus Database: 270.14.94/2545 - Release Date: 12/04/09 19:34:00 From dandrews at visi.com Sat Dec 5 16:23:34 2009 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Sat, 05 Dec 2009 10:23:34 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] Last Chance to Help Braille Literacy with Coin Purchase Message-ID: Christmas Header The holiday season is upon us—a time when we turn our focus, more than any other part of the year, to giving. This year, give a gift that really counts—a future full of opportunity for a blind child! Today far too many blind children and adults in America are being refused Braille instruction by both schools and rehabilitation agencies, and many who are receiving a Braille education are given inadequate instruction. There is a way you can help. When you purchase the Louis Braille Bicentennial Silver Dollar, not only will you receive the first U.S. coin to feature readable, tactile Braille, but $10 from the sale of each coin will also go to the National Federation of the Blind’s efforts to end this Braille literacy crisis. That’s a gift anyone would be proud to give. But time is running out! You have just a few days left to purchase this exceptional coin and leave your mark on this crisis. Visit the U.S. Mint’s Web site or www.braille.org, or call 1-800-USA-MINT (872-6468) by December 11, 2009, to give the gift of Braille literacy today. The United States Mint guarantees delivery by December 25, 2009, on any in-stock item, anywhere in the United States on orders placed by December 7, 2009, for standard delivery, and December 11, 2009, for express delivery. Orders over $300 will receive free expedited shipping. If you've already purchased the Louis Braille Bicentennial Silver Dollar, consider making a matching gift to the “Braille Readers are Leaders” campaign. It is a great way to multiply the impact of your purchase. We at the National Federation of the Blind thank you for your devotion to America’s blind and wish you the happiest of holiday seasons! Braille Coin (Black & White) To learn more about the 2009 Louis Braille Bicentennial Silver Dollar, the Braille literacy crisis, and the Braille Readers are Leaders campaign, visit www.braille.org. National Federation of the Blind 200 East Wells Street at Jernigan Place Baltimore, Maryland 21230 (410) 659-9314 Fax (410) 659-5129 From jimi-law at dc.rr.com Sat Dec 5 17:31:23 2009 From: jimi-law at dc.rr.com (James Weisberg) Date: Sat, 5 Dec 2009 09:31:23 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel / Canes In-Reply-To: <27D47090A64E4986A8D5EFBF6EC655D0@D3J75Z91> References: <27D47090A64E4986A8D5EFBF6EC655D0@D3J75Z91> Message-ID: Can you provide me a citation so I can check it out? Thanks. James W. Weisberg, Esq. Law Office of J. William Weisberg 299 South Patencio Road #3 Palm Springs, California 92262 V: 916.425.1010 F: 916.374.7667 E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com Admitted in Wisconsin Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil Rights Advocacy for Children with Diabetes This message contains information which may be confidential and privileged. Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from your system. This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client relationship nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William Weisberg expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in accordance with this disclaimer. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Patti Gregory-Chang Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 5:46 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel / Canes There is a subsection e in the regs that allows us to keep our canes as long as they are by the window. P.S. National Federation of the Blind of Illinois is now on twitter at www.twitter.com/nfbi. We also have a facebook page. Just search for our full name. Patti Gregory-Chang President, National Federation of the Blind of Illinois pattichang at att.net www.nfbofillinois.org ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 5:19 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel / Canes > I'm not sure. DHS doesn't have jurisdiction over what happens on the > planes themselves - that's Department of Transportation, so Craig might > know. > However, I know there are regs that prohibit loose items from being > permitted to remain loose during take-off and landing. That's usually how > the air > carriers get us to give up our canes. I lay my cane along the fusalage > as > well, Millie, and no one has ever said a word about that either. > > > > In a message dated 12/4/2009 9:34:40 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, > mildredrivera at yahoo.com writes: > > I prefer to use a long white cane. When I sit in the aisle, I just ask > the > person near the window if I can stow it there and no one has ever turned > me down. I was wondering if anyone knows, maybe Ronza, if I have a right > to > have the cane at my reach? I maintain that I do, but don't know any reg > or > airline policy that actually says that I do. > > Have a blessed day !!! :), Millie > > --- On Fri, 12/4/09, Reyazuddin, Yasmin > wrote: > > > From: Reyazuddin, Yasmin > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel / Canes > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Date: Friday, December 4, 2009, 8:06 AM > > > Hi Millie, > It has happened to me too. I have given them the cane and they have > placed > in a secure place. I was in the ile seat and had no wall near me. They > also put the cane in the overhead bin but are careful that it does not > fall > out. The airline staff are willing to help me get to the bathroom or > bring me > soft drinks. I am talking about long flights lasting 7 to 9 hours. > > Yasmin Reyazuddin > Information & Referral unit > Department of Health & human services > 401 Hungerford Drive (1st floor) > Rockville MD 20850 > Phone 240-777-1245 (info line) > 240-777-1556 (personal line) > Fax: 240-777-4636 > TTY: 240-777-1295 > > Office hours 8:30 am to 5:00 pm > > Languages English, Hindi, Urdu > > This message may contain protected health information or other > information > that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended > recipient, > please contact the sender by return mail and destroy any copies of this > material. > > Thank you. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of Millie Rivera-Rau > Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 10:19 PM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel / Canes > > I have a question. Lately my long white cane has been taken from me after > I get on the plane. Sometimes I can convince the personnel that I should > be > permitted to keep it but other times I am not successful. Is there > something that I can site that would get through to them? Or, am I > required to > relinquish it? For some reason it has been a problem more in the last two > years then ever before. I push it to a point just after making a scene. > smile. > The thing that really gets me is that they want to put it in an overhead > bin and usually it falls out as soon as the bin is opened and hits > someone on > the head! Then the other passengers realize I was right. Any thoughts. > > Millie > > > > > > --- On Wed, 12/2/09, AZNOR99 at aol.com wrote: > > > From: AZNOR99 at aol.com > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org > Date: Wednesday, December 2, 2009, 12:24 PM > > > Hello, > > This is an interesting subject. TSA is generally not responsible for > providing a traveler with a guide as a passenger goes through screening. > You > can always request a Companion Pass from the airline for someone to > accompany you; however, it is at the discretion of the airline as to > whether or not > they grant this request. Most do grant the Pass as long as you give > them > a valid reason, and most accept accompanying a minor or passenger with a > disability or elderly individual as a valid reason. You can request a > Companion Pass from the airline at the time of check-in if you bring > someone with > you to drop you off - you don't necessarily have to let the airline know > in advance that you plan to do this. If you want someone to meet you at > the > gate when you arrive though, you'll need to let the airline know in > advance. This is because you won't actually be with the person when > they > obtain > the Companion Pass, so the airline can't verify that they know you or > that > you'd want them to pick you up. Companions are subject to the same > screening and security measures as passengers - valid State or Federal > ID, human > and belonging scans, etc. TSA does not have jurisdiction over Companion > Pass issuance - that is at the discretion of the airlines - they are > subject > to the regs of the FAA. > > You can ask for a Guide at the airport as well. Generally airlines > prefer > you do this in advance, but you can certainly choose to make such a > request when you arrive at the airport or land at your destination. If > you don't > let them know you need someone in advance though, you might have to wait > longer for someone to arrive, as airlines try to have staff waiting for > passengers about whom they know. We've all seen the line of wheel chairs > and > uniformed staff waiting when we deplane? Well, they're each usually > assigned to a particular person, and they usually know who that person is > ahead of > time. Airlines, and sometimes airports, are increasingly creating > "Passenger Assistance Departments," and escorting passengers is one of > their > primary functions. > > There are some airports that utilize the airport police or other airport > staff as escorts rather than airline personnel. Sometimes this is > because > > it is incredibly difficult to credential staff for all areas of an > airport, > which such staff need to possess. Sometimes it may be a small airport, > and > it would be more efficient to assign escort responsibilities to one > person > for all the airlines. Or there might be other reasons. > > However, TSOs - Transportation Security Officers) are trained in how to > interact with disabled passengers. For example, if you place your cane > on > > the conveyer belt, a TSO may offer to position you prior to entering the > human > scanner and reach out to hold your hands to guide you forward. Due to > the > nature of the scanning equipment, a passenger must not touch the scanning > machine - it will not function properly if anything comes into contact > with > it. Some of us have had the experience of bumping the machine and > setting > it off in the past. > > If you run your cane through the baggage scanner and ask for it back to > take through the human scanner, you have to be very careful, once again, > not > to tap the scanner walls with the cane - it will likely set the machine > off. > Also, if your cane has metal - many of us use metal tips - then it may > cause the scanner to go off, necessitating the individual be referred to > secondary screening or wanding. > > I've personally had the experience of placing my cane on the baggage > scanning belt and walking toward the human scanner. I walked through the > scanner very slowly and did not set it off. However, I was referred to > secondary. I always ask why I'm being referred to Secondary (I'm in the > business of > wanting to know if I'm being discriminated against because of my > religion, > national origin, or disability). The answer I usually get (not always > though, and I've got some funny stories about other times) is "it's > random." > I conveyed to the TSO that I could not move to the secondary screening > area > until someone retrieved my cane from the conveyer belt. He got it for > me > and asked, "Oh, is the reason you moved so slowly through the scanner > because you are blind?" I answered that it was, and he told me I was > free > to go. > I insisted on going to Secondary, and he said, "Well you don't need to. > Your behavior isn't suspicious. I just thought it was because I didn't > know > you were being careful not to bump the machine since you couldn't see > well." Part of their jobs as TSOs is to monitor suspicious behavior; > part > of my > job is to convey the difference between suspicious behavior and cultural > > norms. Needless to say I insisted on going to Secondary because I wanted > the chance to talk the issue through with the TSO. It was a teachable > moment, > and I think he really got there could be hundreds of reasons why someone > might move slowly through a machine. > > But for those that have had really bad experiences at TSA or CBP > checkpoints, there are a couple of different avenues you can take. If > you > believe > you have been the subject of discrimination, you may file a CRCL (DHS > Office > for Civil Rights and Civil Liberties - and where I work) complaint. Go > to > _www.dhs.gov/civilliberties_ (http://www.dhs.gov/civilliberties) to > download the form or send an email to _civil.liberties at dhs.gov_ > (mailto:civil.liberties at dhs.gov) explaining what happened. Please be > sure to give as much > detail as possible, including the date, airport name, terminal number, > time > of day, the name of anyone you obtain, and a narrative explaining what > happened. If you have a customer service issue - for example a TSO was > rude > or dismissive, you may ask for a supervisor, a comment card, or both. > You > can also contact your local field office after the fact to convey what > happened. > > My message is substantially longer than I intended, and I apologize for > the > length. > > Regards, > Ronza > > > > > In a message dated 12/2/2009 4:25:21 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, > ckrugman at sbcglobal.net writes: > > I travel frequently alone and the air lines and/or HSA provide needed > assistence upon my request. including through security check points and > picking up baggage and assistence with procuring ground transportation > or > to > a waiting party. I have found HSA and airport staff to be very > cooperative. > Chuck > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "stiehm.law" > To: > Cc: > Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 12:57 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > > >> In addition to the airlines, I have recently become curious as to what > if >> any, accommodations for the TSA makes with respect to disabled people >> going through security and being picked up by somebody at the gate at > the >> terminal at the other end of the flight. For example, do they permit a >> blind person who is traveling alone to be accompanied through > security, >> down to the airline check-in counter at the gate by a non-ticketed >> person. >> >> At the other end, is a non-ticketed person permitted through security >> to >> go to the gate to meet a blind person flying alone? >> >> If TSA does not provide for such accommodations do the airlines take it >> on themselves to provide this service? >> >> Has anybody had any experience in this regard? Is the accommodation, if >> any, voluntary on the part of the TSA and/or the airlines or is it >> governed by regulation? >> >> Patrick H. Stiehm >> Stiehm Law Office >> Alexandria, VA 22309 >> 703-360-1089 (Voice) >> 703-935-8266 (Fax) >> >> >> >> Tue, 1 Dec 2009 11:30:37 -0800 "Russell J. Thomas, Jr." >> writes: >>> Off the top of my head, and without any new research, the only case >>> I >>> remember is a case challenging the accessibility of airline websites >>> with >>> respect to attempting to make reservations and ordering tickets on >>> line. >>> >>> I also think that there are regulations on the subject, especially >>> dealing >>> with how disabled passengers are to be treated (or perhaps on some >>> occasions >>> mistreated). >>> >>> I often thought it would be a good idea for the NFB to put together >>> a short >>> guide book concerning travel, including air travel, based upon >>> experiences >>> of NFB members, to be used as a reference guide for blind people who >>> use air >>> travel. Certainly things have changed since 911--some changes for >>> the good, >>> and others not so good. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Respectfully, >>> >>> >>> >>> Russell J. Thomas, Jr. >>> >>> THOMAS & ASSOCIATES >>> >>> www.californiaemployersattorneys.com >>> >>> >>> >>> Orange County Office >>> >>> 4121 Westerly Place, Suite 101 >>> >>> Newport Beach, California 92660 >>> >>> T: (949) 752-0101 >>> >>> F: (949) 257-4756 >>> >>> M: (949) 466-7238 >>> >>> >>> >>> Beverly Hills Office >>> >>> 9107 Wilshire Boulevard, Suite 450 >>> >>> Beverly Hills, California 90210 >>> >>> T: (310) 461-3561 >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>> Behalf Of James Weisberg >>> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 10:01 AM >>> To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' >>> Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel >>> >>> Hi Folks: >>> >>> >>> >>> Anyone on the lists have experience or knowledge regarding the ADA >>> and suits >>> against air carriers for violations available for quick consult? >>> Thanks. >>> >>> >>> >>> James W. Weisberg, Esq. >>> >>> Law Office of J. William Weisberg >>> >>> 299 South Patencio Road #3 >>> >>> Palm Springs, California 92262 >>> >>> V: 916.425.1010 >>> >>> F: 916.374.7667 >>> >>> E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com >>> >>> Admitted in Wisconsin >>> >>> Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil >>> Rights >>> Advocacy for Children with Diabetes >>> >>> This message contains information which may be confidential and >>> privileged. >>> Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the >>> addressee), >>> you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any >>> information >>> contained in this message. If you have received this message in >>> error, >>> please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from >>> your >>> system. >>> >>> This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client >>> relationship >>> nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William >>> Weisberg >>> expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information >>> in >>> accordance with this disclaimer. >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> blindlaw: >>> >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rthomas%40rjtla >> wfi >>> rm.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for blindlaw: >>> >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stiehm.law%40ju >> no.com >>> >> >> ____________________________________________________________ >> Hotel >> Hotel pics, info and virtual tours. Click here to book a hotel online. >> > http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/c?cp=ewJKbyZ61QloDsW_i_oQ_wAAJ1BdRO > y9vkzpR6E_Fj7jZTbnAAYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAATRAAAAAA= >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob > al.net > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/aznor99%40aol.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mildredrivera%40ya > hoo.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/yasmin.reyazuddin% > 40montgomerycountymd.gov > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mildredrivera%40ya > hoo.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/aznor99%40aol.com > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pattichang%40att.n et _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jimi-law%40dc.rr.c om __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4661 (20091204) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4661 (20091204) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4662 (20091205) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4662 (20091205) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com From joramsey at cox.net Sat Dec 5 17:56:07 2009 From: joramsey at cox.net (John Ramsey) Date: Sat, 5 Dec 2009 12:56:07 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Research list Message-ID: <4DB75B50A8F5412A87528ADCC34271D2@noneeb869fea9a> A couple of weeks ago there was a discussion about finding caseslaw on Google and it sounded like it was a research specific version of Google. Does anyone know if this is a good resource to find free articles? If so, what is the address? Thanks, John John A. Ramsey Jr., Esq. Gainesville, FL 32609 (352) 505-6642 This communication contains information that may be confidential and/or legally privileged. It is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. If you have received this communication in error, please call us at (352) 505-6642 and destroy any associated printed materials and delete the electronic material from any computer. Please be aware that any unauthorized disclosure, use or publication of this communication or the information it contains may result in criminal and/or civil liability. Due to this message being transmitted over the Internet, John Ramsey cannot assure that the messages are secure. If you are uncomfortable with such risks, you may decide not to use email to communicate with John Ramsey. Please contact us immediately at (352) 505-6642 if you decide not to use email. You must also be aware that email messages may be delayed or undelivered through circumstances beyond our control. Thank you. From timandvickie at hotmail.com Sat Dec 5 20:11:45 2009 From: timandvickie at hotmail.com (Tim Shaw) Date: Sat, 5 Dec 2009 20:11:45 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel / Canes In-Reply-To: References: , <27D47090A64E4986A8D5EFBF6EC655D0@D3J75Z91>, Message-ID: Anyone happen to have a contact number I can use for requesting assistance within the airport from American Airlines/American Eagle? I have been searchign and can not seem to finda number. There sight says I can request assistance when checking in the day of trvel, but I would like to set it up in advance if possible and I want to check in online so wouldnt have to wait in the long lines at the counter. > From: jimi-law at dc.rr.com > To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org > Date: Sat, 5 Dec 2009 09:31:23 -0800 > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel / Canes > > Can you provide me a citation so I can check it out? Thanks. > > James W. Weisberg, Esq. > > Law Office of J. William Weisberg > > 299 South Patencio Road #3 > > Palm Springs, California 92262 > > V: 916.425.1010 > > F: 916.374.7667 > > E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com > > Admitted in Wisconsin > > Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil Rights > Advocacy for Children with Diabetes > > This message contains information which may be confidential and privileged. > Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), > you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information > contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, > please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from your > system. > > This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client relationship > nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William Weisberg > expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in > accordance with this disclaimer. > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of Patti Gregory-Chang > Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 5:46 AM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel / Canes > > There is a subsection e in the regs that allows us to keep our canes as long > > as they are by the window. > > P.S. National Federation of the Blind of Illinois is now on twitter at > www.twitter.com/nfbi. > We also have a facebook page. Just search for our full name. > > Patti Gregory-Chang > President, National Federation of the Blind of Illinois > pattichang at att.net > www.nfbofillinois.org > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 5:19 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel / Canes > > > > I'm not sure. DHS doesn't have jurisdiction over what happens on the > > planes themselves - that's Department of Transportation, so Craig might > > know. > > However, I know there are regs that prohibit loose items from being > > permitted to remain loose during take-off and landing. That's usually how > > > the air > > carriers get us to give up our canes. I lay my cane along the fusalage > > as > > well, Millie, and no one has ever said a word about that either. > > > > > > > > In a message dated 12/4/2009 9:34:40 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, > > mildredrivera at yahoo.com writes: > > > > I prefer to use a long white cane. When I sit in the aisle, I just ask > > the > > person near the window if I can stow it there and no one has ever turned > > me down. I was wondering if anyone knows, maybe Ronza, if I have a right > > to > > have the cane at my reach? I maintain that I do, but don't know any reg > > or > > airline policy that actually says that I do. > > > > Have a blessed day !!! :), Millie > > > > --- On Fri, 12/4/09, Reyazuddin, Yasmin > > wrote: > > > > > > From: Reyazuddin, Yasmin > > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel / Canes > > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > > Date: Friday, December 4, 2009, 8:06 AM > > > > > > Hi Millie, > > It has happened to me too. I have given them the cane and they have > > placed > > in a secure place. I was in the ile seat and had no wall near me. They > > also put the cane in the overhead bin but are careful that it does not > > fall > > out. The airline staff are willing to help me get to the bathroom or > > bring me > > soft drinks. I am talking about long flights lasting 7 to 9 hours. > > > > Yasmin Reyazuddin > > Information & Referral unit > > Department of Health & human services > > 401 Hungerford Drive (1st floor) > > Rockville MD 20850 > > Phone 240-777-1245 (info line) > > 240-777-1556 (personal line) > > Fax: 240-777-4636 > > TTY: 240-777-1295 > > > > Office hours 8:30 am to 5:00 pm > > > > Languages English, Hindi, Urdu > > > > This message may contain protected health information or other > > information > > that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended > > recipient, > > please contact the sender by return mail and destroy any copies of this > > material. > > > > Thank you. > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > > Behalf Of Millie Rivera-Rau > > Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 10:19 PM > > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel / Canes > > > > I have a question. Lately my long white cane has been taken from me after > > I get on the plane. Sometimes I can convince the personnel that I should > > be > > permitted to keep it but other times I am not successful. Is there > > something that I can site that would get through to them? Or, am I > > required to > > relinquish it? For some reason it has been a problem more in the last two > > years then ever before. I push it to a point just after making a scene. > > smile. > > The thing that really gets me is that they want to put it in an overhead > > bin and usually it falls out as soon as the bin is opened and hits > > someone on > > the head! Then the other passengers realize I was right. Any thoughts. > > > > Millie > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Wed, 12/2/09, AZNOR99 at aol.com wrote: > > > > > > From: AZNOR99 at aol.com > > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > > To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > Date: Wednesday, December 2, 2009, 12:24 PM > > > > > > Hello, > > > > This is an interesting subject. TSA is generally not responsible for > > providing a traveler with a guide as a passenger goes through screening. > > You > > can always request a Companion Pass from the airline for someone to > > accompany you; however, it is at the discretion of the airline as to > > whether or not > > they grant this request. Most do grant the Pass as long as you give > > them > > a valid reason, and most accept accompanying a minor or passenger with a > > disability or elderly individual as a valid reason. You can request a > > Companion Pass from the airline at the time of check-in if you bring > > someone with > > you to drop you off - you don't necessarily have to let the airline know > > in advance that you plan to do this. If you want someone to meet you at > > the > > gate when you arrive though, you'll need to let the airline know in > > advance. This is because you won't actually be with the person when > > they > > obtain > > the Companion Pass, so the airline can't verify that they know you or > > that > > you'd want them to pick you up. Companions are subject to the same > > screening and security measures as passengers - valid State or Federal > > ID, human > > and belonging scans, etc. TSA does not have jurisdiction over Companion > > Pass issuance - that is at the discretion of the airlines - they are > > subject > > to the regs of the FAA. > > > > You can ask for a Guide at the airport as well. Generally airlines > > prefer > > you do this in advance, but you can certainly choose to make such a > > request when you arrive at the airport or land at your destination. If > > you don't > > let them know you need someone in advance though, you might have to wait > > longer for someone to arrive, as airlines try to have staff waiting for > > passengers about whom they know. We've all seen the line of wheel chairs > > and > > uniformed staff waiting when we deplane? Well, they're each usually > > assigned to a particular person, and they usually know who that person is > > ahead of > > time. Airlines, and sometimes airports, are increasingly creating > > "Passenger Assistance Departments," and escorting passengers is one of > > their > > primary functions. > > > > There are some airports that utilize the airport police or other airport > > staff as escorts rather than airline personnel. Sometimes this is > > because > > > > it is incredibly difficult to credential staff for all areas of an > > airport, > > which such staff need to possess. Sometimes it may be a small airport, > > and > > it would be more efficient to assign escort responsibilities to one > > person > > for all the airlines. Or there might be other reasons. > > > > However, TSOs - Transportation Security Officers) are trained in how to > > interact with disabled passengers. For example, if you place your cane > > on > > > > the conveyer belt, a TSO may offer to position you prior to entering the > > human > > scanner and reach out to hold your hands to guide you forward. Due to > > the > > nature of the scanning equipment, a passenger must not touch the scanning > > machine - it will not function properly if anything comes into contact > > with > > it. Some of us have had the experience of bumping the machine and > > setting > > it off in the past. > > > > If you run your cane through the baggage scanner and ask for it back to > > take through the human scanner, you have to be very careful, once again, > > not > > to tap the scanner walls with the cane - it will likely set the machine > > off. > > Also, if your cane has metal - many of us use metal tips - then it may > > cause the scanner to go off, necessitating the individual be referred to > > secondary screening or wanding. > > > > I've personally had the experience of placing my cane on the baggage > > scanning belt and walking toward the human scanner. I walked through the > > scanner very slowly and did not set it off. However, I was referred to > > secondary. I always ask why I'm being referred to Secondary (I'm in the > > business of > > wanting to know if I'm being discriminated against because of my > > religion, > > national origin, or disability). The answer I usually get (not always > > though, and I've got some funny stories about other times) is "it's > > random." > > I conveyed to the TSO that I could not move to the secondary screening > > area > > until someone retrieved my cane from the conveyer belt. He got it for > > me > > and asked, "Oh, is the reason you moved so slowly through the scanner > > because you are blind?" I answered that it was, and he told me I was > > free > > to go. > > I insisted on going to Secondary, and he said, "Well you don't need to. > > Your behavior isn't suspicious. I just thought it was because I didn't > > know > > you were being careful not to bump the machine since you couldn't see > > well." Part of their jobs as TSOs is to monitor suspicious behavior; > > part > > of my > > job is to convey the difference between suspicious behavior and cultural > > > > norms. Needless to say I insisted on going to Secondary because I wanted > > the chance to talk the issue through with the TSO. It was a teachable > > moment, > > and I think he really got there could be hundreds of reasons why someone > > might move slowly through a machine. > > > > But for those that have had really bad experiences at TSA or CBP > > checkpoints, there are a couple of different avenues you can take. If > > you > > believe > > you have been the subject of discrimination, you may file a CRCL (DHS > > Office > > for Civil Rights and Civil Liberties - and where I work) complaint. Go > > to > > _www.dhs.gov/civilliberties_ (http://www.dhs.gov/civilliberties) to > > download the form or send an email to _civil.liberties at dhs.gov_ > > (mailto:civil.liberties at dhs.gov) explaining what happened. Please be > > sure to give as much > > detail as possible, including the date, airport name, terminal number, > > time > > of day, the name of anyone you obtain, and a narrative explaining what > > happened. If you have a customer service issue - for example a TSO was > > rude > > or dismissive, you may ask for a supervisor, a comment card, or both. > > You > > can also contact your local field office after the fact to convey what > > happened. > > > > My message is substantially longer than I intended, and I apologize for > > the > > length. > > > > Regards, > > Ronza > > > > > > > > > > In a message dated 12/2/2009 4:25:21 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, > > ckrugman at sbcglobal.net writes: > > > > I travel frequently alone and the air lines and/or HSA provide needed > > assistence upon my request. including through security check points and > > picking up baggage and assistence with procuring ground transportation > > or > > to > > a waiting party. I have found HSA and airport staff to be very > > cooperative. > > Chuck > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "stiehm.law" > > To: > > Cc: > > Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 12:57 PM > > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > > > > > >> In addition to the airlines, I have recently become curious as to what > > if > >> any, accommodations for the TSA makes with respect to disabled people > >> going through security and being picked up by somebody at the gate at > > the > >> terminal at the other end of the flight. For example, do they permit a > >> blind person who is traveling alone to be accompanied through > > security, > >> down to the airline check-in counter at the gate by a non-ticketed > >> person. > >> > >> At the other end, is a non-ticketed person permitted through security > >> to > >> go to the gate to meet a blind person flying alone? > >> > >> If TSA does not provide for such accommodations do the airlines take it > >> on themselves to provide this service? > >> > >> Has anybody had any experience in this regard? Is the accommodation, if > >> any, voluntary on the part of the TSA and/or the airlines or is it > >> governed by regulation? > >> > >> Patrick H. Stiehm > >> Stiehm Law Office > >> Alexandria, VA 22309 > >> 703-360-1089 (Voice) > >> 703-935-8266 (Fax) > >> > >> > >> > >> Tue, 1 Dec 2009 11:30:37 -0800 "Russell J. Thomas, Jr." > >> writes: > >>> Off the top of my head, and without any new research, the only case > >>> I > >>> remember is a case challenging the accessibility of airline websites > >>> with > >>> respect to attempting to make reservations and ordering tickets on > >>> line. > >>> > >>> I also think that there are regulations on the subject, especially > >>> dealing > >>> with how disabled passengers are to be treated (or perhaps on some > >>> occasions > >>> mistreated). > >>> > >>> I often thought it would be a good idea for the NFB to put together > >>> a short > >>> guide book concerning travel, including air travel, based upon > >>> experiences > >>> of NFB members, to be used as a reference guide for blind people who > >>> use air > >>> travel. Certainly things have changed since 911--some changes for > >>> the good, > >>> and others not so good. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Respectfully, > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Russell J. Thomas, Jr. > >>> > >>> THOMAS & ASSOCIATES > >>> > >>> www.californiaemployersattorneys.com > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Orange County Office > >>> > >>> 4121 Westerly Place, Suite 101 > >>> > >>> Newport Beach, California 92660 > >>> > >>> T: (949) 752-0101 > >>> > >>> F: (949) 257-4756 > >>> > >>> M: (949) 466-7238 > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Beverly Hills Office > >>> > >>> 9107 Wilshire Boulevard, Suite 450 > >>> > >>> Beverly Hills, California 90210 > >>> > >>> T: (310) 461-3561 > >>> > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org > >>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > >>> Behalf Of James Weisberg > >>> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 10:01 AM > >>> To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' > >>> Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > >>> > >>> Hi Folks: > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Anyone on the lists have experience or knowledge regarding the ADA > >>> and suits > >>> against air carriers for violations available for quick consult? > >>> Thanks. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> James W. Weisberg, Esq. > >>> > >>> Law Office of J. William Weisberg > >>> > >>> 299 South Patencio Road #3 > >>> > >>> Palm Springs, California 92262 > >>> > >>> V: 916.425.1010 > >>> > >>> F: 916.374.7667 > >>> > >>> E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com > >>> > >>> Admitted in Wisconsin > >>> > >>> Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil > >>> Rights > >>> Advocacy for Children with Diabetes > >>> > >>> This message contains information which may be confidential and > >>> privileged. > >>> Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the > >>> addressee), > >>> you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any > >>> information > >>> contained in this message. If you have received this message in > >>> error, > >>> please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from > >>> your > >>> system. > >>> > >>> This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client > >>> relationship > >>> nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William > >>> Weisberg > >>> expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information > >>> in > >>> accordance with this disclaimer. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> blindlaw mailing list > >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > >>> for > >>> blindlaw: > >>> > >> > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rthomas%40rjtla > >> wfi > >>> rm.com > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> blindlaw mailing list > >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > >>> for blindlaw: > >>> > >> > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stiehm.law%40ju > >> no.com > >>> > >> > >> ____________________________________________________________ > >> Hotel > >> Hotel pics, info and virtual tours. Click here to book a hotel online. > >> > > > http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/c?cp=ewJKbyZ61QloDsW_i_oQ_wAAJ1BdRO > > y9vkzpR6E_Fj7jZTbnAAYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAATRAAAAAA= > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> blindlaw mailing list > >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> blindlaw: > >> > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob > > al.net > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > blindlaw mailing list > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > blindlaw: > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/aznor99%40aol.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > blindlaw mailing list > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > blindlaw: > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mildredrivera%40ya > > hoo.com > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > blindlaw mailing list > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > blindlaw: > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/yasmin.reyazuddin% > > 40montgomerycountymd.gov > > > > _______________________________________________ > > blindlaw mailing list > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > blindlaw: > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mildredrivera%40ya > > hoo.com > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > blindlaw mailing list > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > blindlaw: > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/aznor99%40aol.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > > blindlaw mailing list > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > blindlaw: > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pattichang%40att.n > et > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jimi-law%40dc.rr.c > om > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature > database 4661 (20091204) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature > database 4661 (20091204) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature > database 4662 (20091205) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature > database 4662 (20091205) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/timandvickie%40hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ Chat with Messenger straight from your Hotmail inbox. http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowslive/hotmail_bl1/hotmail_bl1.aspx?ocid=PID23879::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-ww:WM_IMHM_4:092009 From editor.nftb at gmail.com Sat Dec 5 20:29:07 2009 From: editor.nftb at gmail.com (Will May) Date: Sat, 5 Dec 2009 15:29:07 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel / Canes In-Reply-To: References: <27D47090A64E4986A8D5EFBF6EC655D0@D3J75Z91> Message-ID: Reservations at (800)433-7300 for Future Travel Disability Related Services -American Air On Sat, Dec 5, 2009 at 3:11 PM, Tim Shaw wrote: > > Anyone happen to have a contact number I can use for requesting assistance within the airport from American Airlines/American Eagle? I have been searchign and can not seem to finda  number. There sight says I can request assistance when checking in the day of trvel, but I would like to set it up in advance  if possible and I want to check in online so wouldnt have to wait in the long lines at the counter. > >> From: jimi-law at dc.rr.com >> To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> Date: Sat, 5 Dec 2009 09:31:23 -0800 >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel / Canes >> >> Can you provide me a citation so I can check it out? Thanks. >> >> James W. Weisberg, Esq. >> >> Law Office of J. William Weisberg >> >> 299 South Patencio Road #3 >> >> Palm Springs, California 92262 >> >> V: 916.425.1010 >> >> F: 916.374.7667 >> >> E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com >> >> Admitted in Wisconsin >> >> Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil Rights >> Advocacy for Children with Diabetes >> >> This message contains information which may be confidential and privileged. >> Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), >> you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information >> contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, >> please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from your >> system. >> >> This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client relationship >> nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William Weisberg >> expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in >> accordance with this disclaimer. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf Of Patti Gregory-Chang >> Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 5:46 AM >> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel / Canes >> >> There is a subsection e in the regs that allows us to keep our canes as long >> >> as they are by the window. >> >> P.S. National Federation of the Blind of Illinois is now on twitter at >> www.twitter.com/nfbi. >> We also have a facebook page. Just search for our full name. >> >> Patti Gregory-Chang >> President, National Federation of the Blind of Illinois >> pattichang at att.net >> www.nfbofillinois.org >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: >> To: >> Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 5:19 PM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel / Canes >> >> >> > I'm not sure. DHS doesn't have jurisdiction over what happens on the >> > planes themselves - that's Department of Transportation, so Craig might >> > know. >> > However, I know there are regs that prohibit loose items from being >> > permitted to remain loose during take-off and landing. That's usually how >> >> > the air >> > carriers get us to give up our canes. I lay my cane along the fusalage >> > as >> > well, Millie, and no one has ever said a word about that either. >> > >> > >> > >> > In a message dated 12/4/2009 9:34:40 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, >> > mildredrivera at yahoo.com writes: >> > >> > I prefer to use a long white cane. When I sit in the aisle, I just ask >> > the >> > person near the window if I can stow it there and no one has ever turned >> > me down. I was wondering if anyone knows, maybe Ronza, if I have a right >> > to >> > have the cane at my reach? I maintain that I do, but don't know any reg >> > or >> > airline policy that actually says that I do. >> > >> > Have a blessed day !!! :), Millie >> > >> > --- On Fri, 12/4/09, Reyazuddin, Yasmin >> > wrote: >> > >> > >> > From: Reyazuddin, Yasmin >> > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel / Canes >> > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> > Date: Friday, December 4, 2009, 8:06 AM >> > >> > >> > Hi Millie, >> > It has happened to me too. I have given them the cane and they have >> > placed >> > in a secure place. I was in the ile seat and had no wall near me. They >> > also put the cane in the overhead bin but are careful that it does not >> > fall >> > out. The airline staff are willing to help me get to the bathroom or >> > bring me >> > soft drinks. I am talking about long flights lasting 7 to 9 hours. >> > >> > Yasmin Reyazuddin >> > Information & Referral unit >> > Department of Health & human services >> > 401 Hungerford Drive (1st floor) >> > Rockville MD 20850 >> > Phone 240-777-1245 (info line) >> > 240-777-1556 (personal line) >> > Fax: 240-777-4636 >> > TTY: 240-777-1295 >> > >> > Office hours 8:30 am to 5:00 pm >> > >> > Languages English, Hindi, Urdu >> > >> > This message may contain protected health information or other >> > information >> > that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended >> > recipient, >> > please contact the sender by return mail and destroy any copies of this >> > material. >> > >> > Thank you. >> > >> > >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> > Behalf Of Millie Rivera-Rau >> > Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 10:19 PM >> > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >> > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel / Canes >> > >> > I have a question. Lately my long white cane has been taken from me after >> > I get on the plane. Sometimes I can convince the personnel that I should >> > be >> > permitted to keep it but other times I am not successful. Is there >> > something that I can site that would get through to them? Or, am I >> > required to >> > relinquish it? For some reason it has been a problem more in the last two >> > years then ever before. I push it to a point just after making a scene. >> > smile. >> > The thing that really gets me is that they want to put it in an overhead >> > bin and usually it falls out as soon as the bin is opened and hits >> > someone on >> > the head! Then the other passengers realize I was right. Any thoughts. >> > >> > Millie >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > --- On Wed, 12/2/09, AZNOR99 at aol.com wrote: >> > >> > >> > From: AZNOR99 at aol.com >> > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel >> > To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> > Date: Wednesday, December 2, 2009, 12:24 PM >> > >> > >> > Hello, >> > >> > This is an interesting subject. TSA is generally not responsible for >> > providing a traveler with a guide as a passenger goes through screening. >> > You >> > can always request a Companion Pass from the airline for someone to >> > accompany you; however, it is at the discretion of the airline as to >> > whether or not >> > they grant this request. Most do grant the Pass as long as you give >> > them >> > a valid reason, and most accept accompanying a minor or passenger with a >> > disability or elderly individual as a valid reason. You can request a >> > Companion Pass from the airline at the time of check-in if you bring >> > someone with >> > you to drop you off - you don't necessarily have to let the airline know >> > in advance that you plan to do this. If you want someone to meet you at >> > the >> > gate when you arrive though, you'll need to let the airline know in >> > advance. This is because you won't actually be with the person when >> > they >> > obtain >> > the Companion Pass, so the airline can't verify that they know you or >> > that >> > you'd want them to pick you up. Companions are subject to the same >> > screening and security measures as passengers - valid State or Federal >> > ID, human >> > and belonging scans, etc. TSA does not have jurisdiction over Companion >> > Pass issuance - that is at the discretion of the airlines - they are >> > subject >> > to the regs of the FAA. >> > >> > You can ask for a Guide at the airport as well. Generally airlines >> > prefer >> > you do this in advance, but you can certainly choose to make such a >> > request when you arrive at the airport or land at your destination. If >> > you don't >> > let them know you need someone in advance though, you might have to wait >> > longer for someone to arrive, as airlines try to have staff waiting for >> > passengers about whom they know. We've all seen the line of wheel chairs >> > and >> > uniformed staff waiting when we deplane? Well, they're each usually >> > assigned to a particular person, and they usually know who that person is >> > ahead of >> > time. Airlines, and sometimes airports, are increasingly creating >> > "Passenger Assistance Departments," and escorting passengers is one of >> > their >> > primary functions. >> > >> > There are some airports that utilize the airport police or other airport >> > staff as escorts rather than airline personnel. Sometimes this is >> > because >> > >> > it is incredibly difficult to credential staff for all areas of an >> > airport, >> > which such staff need to possess. Sometimes it may be a small airport, >> > and >> > it would be more efficient to assign escort responsibilities to one >> > person >> > for all the airlines. Or there might be other reasons. >> > >> > However, TSOs - Transportation Security Officers) are trained in how to >> > interact with disabled passengers. For example, if you place your cane >> > on >> > >> > the conveyer belt, a TSO may offer to position you prior to entering the >> > human >> > scanner and reach out to hold your hands to guide you forward. Due to >> > the >> > nature of the scanning equipment, a passenger must not touch the scanning >> > machine - it will not function properly if anything comes into contact >> > with >> > it. Some of us have had the experience of bumping the machine and >> > setting >> > it off in the past. >> > >> > If you run your cane through the baggage scanner and ask for it back to >> > take through the human scanner, you have to be very careful, once again, >> > not >> > to tap the scanner walls with the cane - it will likely set the machine >> > off. >> > Also, if your cane has metal - many of us use metal tips - then it may >> > cause the scanner to go off, necessitating the individual be referred to >> > secondary screening or wanding. >> > >> > I've personally had the experience of placing my cane on the baggage >> > scanning belt and walking toward the human scanner. I walked through the >> > scanner very slowly and did not set it off. However, I was referred to >> > secondary. I always ask why I'm being referred to Secondary (I'm in the >> > business of >> > wanting to know if I'm being discriminated against because of my >> > religion, >> > national origin, or disability). The answer I usually get (not always >> > though, and I've got some funny stories about other times) is "it's >> > random." >> > I conveyed to the TSO that I could not move to the secondary screening >> > area >> > until someone retrieved my cane from the conveyer belt. He got it for >> > me >> > and asked, "Oh, is the reason you moved so slowly through the scanner >> > because you are blind?" I answered that it was, and he told me I was >> > free >> > to go. >> > I insisted on going to Secondary, and he said, "Well you don't need to. >> > Your behavior isn't suspicious. I just thought it was because I didn't >> > know >> > you were being careful not to bump the machine since you couldn't see >> > well." Part of their jobs as TSOs is to monitor suspicious behavior; >> > part >> > of my >> > job is to convey the difference between suspicious behavior and cultural >> > >> > norms. Needless to say I insisted on going to Secondary because I wanted >> > the chance to talk the issue through with the TSO. It was a teachable >> > moment, >> > and I think he really got there could be hundreds of reasons why someone >> > might move slowly through a machine. >> > >> > But for those that have had really bad experiences at TSA or CBP >> > checkpoints, there are a couple of different avenues you can take. If >> > you >> > believe >> > you have been the subject of discrimination, you may file a CRCL (DHS >> > Office >> > for Civil Rights and Civil Liberties - and where I work) complaint. Go >> > to >> > _www.dhs.gov/civilliberties_ (http://www.dhs.gov/civilliberties) to >> > download the form or send an email to _civil.liberties at dhs.gov_ >> > (mailto:civil.liberties at dhs.gov) explaining what happened. Please be >> > sure to give as much >> > detail as possible, including the date, airport name, terminal number, >> > time >> > of day, the name of anyone you obtain, and a narrative explaining what >> > happened. If you have a customer service issue - for example a TSO was >> > rude >> > or dismissive, you may ask for a supervisor, a comment card, or both. >> > You >> > can also contact your local field office after the fact to convey what >> > happened. >> > >> > My message is substantially longer than I intended, and I apologize for >> > the >> > length. >> > >> > Regards, >> > Ronza >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > In a message dated 12/2/2009 4:25:21 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, >> > ckrugman at sbcglobal.net writes: >> > >> > I travel frequently alone and the air lines and/or HSA provide needed >> > assistence upon my request. including through security check points and >> > picking up baggage and assistence with procuring ground transportation >> > or >> > to >> > a waiting party. I have found HSA and airport staff to be very >> > cooperative. >> > Chuck >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> > From: "stiehm.law" >> > To: >> > Cc: >> > Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 12:57 PM >> > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel >> > >> > >> >> In addition to the airlines, I have recently become curious as to what >> > if >> >> any, accommodations for the TSA makes with respect to disabled people >> >> going through security and being picked up by somebody at the gate at >> > the >> >> terminal at the other end of the flight. For example, do they permit a >> >> blind person who is traveling alone to be accompanied through >> > security, >> >> down to the airline check-in counter at the gate by a non-ticketed >> >> person. >> >> >> >> At the other end, is a non-ticketed person permitted through security >> >> to >> >> go to the gate to meet a blind person flying alone? >> >> >> >> If TSA does not provide for such accommodations do the airlines take it >> >> on themselves to provide this service? >> >> >> >> Has anybody had any experience in this regard? Is the accommodation, if >> >> any, voluntary on the part of the TSA and/or the airlines or is it >> >> governed by regulation? >> >> >> >> Patrick H. Stiehm >> >> Stiehm Law Office >> >> Alexandria, VA 22309 >> >> 703-360-1089 (Voice) >> >> 703-935-8266 (Fax) >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Tue, 1 Dec 2009 11:30:37 -0800 "Russell J. Thomas, Jr." >> >> writes: >> >>> Off the top of my head, and without any new research, the only case >> >>> I >> >>> remember is a case challenging the accessibility of airline websites >> >>> with >> >>> respect to attempting to make reservations and ordering tickets on >> >>> line. >> >>> >> >>> I also think that there are regulations on the subject, especially >> >>> dealing >> >>> with how disabled passengers are to be treated (or perhaps on some >> >>> occasions >> >>> mistreated). >> >>> >> >>> I often thought it would be a good idea for the NFB to put together >> >>> a short >> >>> guide book concerning travel, including air travel, based upon >> >>> experiences >> >>> of NFB members, to be used as a reference guide for blind people who >> >>> use air >> >>> travel. Certainly things have changed since 911--some changes for >> >>> the good, >> >>> and others not so good. >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> Respectfully, >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> Russell J. Thomas, Jr. >> >>> >> >>> THOMAS & ASSOCIATES >> >>> >> >>> www.californiaemployersattorneys.com >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> Orange County Office >> >>> >> >>> 4121 Westerly Place, Suite 101 >> >>> >> >>> Newport Beach, California 92660 >> >>> >> >>> T: (949) 752-0101 >> >>> >> >>> F: (949) 257-4756 >> >>> >> >>> M: (949) 466-7238 >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> Beverly Hills Office >> >>> >> >>> 9107 Wilshire Boulevard, Suite 450 >> >>> >> >>> Beverly Hills, California 90210 >> >>> >> >>> T: (310) 461-3561 >> >>> >> >>> -----Original Message----- >> >>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >> >>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> >>> Behalf Of James Weisberg >> >>> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 10:01 AM >> >>> To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' >> >>> Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel >> >>> >> >>> Hi Folks: >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> Anyone on the lists have experience or knowledge regarding the ADA >> >>> and suits >> >>> against air carriers for violations available for quick consult? >> >>> Thanks. >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> James W. Weisberg, Esq. >> >>> >> >>> Law Office of J. William Weisberg >> >>> >> >>> 299 South Patencio Road #3 >> >>> >> >>> Palm Springs, California 92262 >> >>> >> >>> V: 916.425.1010 >> >>> >> >>> F: 916.374.7667 >> >>> >> >>> E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com >> >>> >> >>> Admitted in Wisconsin >> >>> >> >>> Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil >> >>> Rights >> >>> Advocacy for Children with Diabetes >> >>> >> >>> This message contains information which may be confidential and >> >>> privileged. >> >>> Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the >> >>> addressee), >> >>> you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any >> >>> information >> >>> contained in this message. If you have received this message in >> >>> error, >> >>> please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from >> >>> your >> >>> system. >> >>> >> >>> This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client >> >>> relationship >> >>> nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William >> >>> Weisberg >> >>> expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information >> >>> in >> >>> accordance with this disclaimer. >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >> >>> blindlaw mailing list >> >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> >>> for >> >>> blindlaw: >> >>> >> >> >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rthomas%40rjtla >> >> wfi >> >>> rm.com >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >> >>> blindlaw mailing list >> >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> >>> for blindlaw: >> >>> >> >> >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stiehm.law%40ju >> >> no.com >> >>> >> >> >> >> ____________________________________________________________ >> >> Hotel >> >> Hotel pics, info and virtual tours. Click here to book a hotel online. >> >> >> > >> http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/c?cp=ewJKbyZ61QloDsW_i_oQ_wAAJ1BdRO >> > y9vkzpR6E_Fj7jZTbnAAYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAATRAAAAAA= >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> blindlaw mailing list >> >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> >> blindlaw: >> >> >> > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob >> > al.net >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > blindlaw mailing list >> > blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> > blindlaw: >> > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/aznor99%40aol.com >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > blindlaw mailing list >> > blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> > blindlaw: >> > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mildredrivera%40ya >> > hoo.com >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > blindlaw mailing list >> > blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> > blindlaw: >> > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/yasmin.reyazuddin% >> > 40montgomerycountymd.gov >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > blindlaw mailing list >> > blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> > blindlaw: >> > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mildredrivera%40ya >> > hoo.com >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > blindlaw mailing list >> > blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> > blindlaw: >> > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/aznor99%40aol.com >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > blindlaw mailing list >> > blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> > blindlaw: >> > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pattichang%40att.n >> et >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jimi-law%40dc.rr.c >> om >> >> __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature >> database 4661 (20091204) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature >> database 4661 (20091204) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature >> database 4662 (20091205) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature >> database 4662 (20091205) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/timandvickie%40hotmail.com > > _________________________________________________________________ > Chat with Messenger straight from your Hotmail inbox. > http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowslive/hotmail_bl1/hotmail_bl1.aspx?ocid=PID23879::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-ww:WM_IMHM_4:092009 > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/editor.nftb%40gmail.com > From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Sun Dec 6 07:44:04 2009 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Sat, 5 Dec 2009 23:44:04 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel / Canes In-Reply-To: References: , <27D47090A64E4986A8D5EFBF6EC655D0@D3J75Z91>, Message-ID: Try 1-800-433-7300. This came from the Expedia web site where they have a downloadable file that lists toll-free and other numbers for air lines and other types of transportation. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Shaw" To: Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 12:11 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel / Canes > > Anyone happen to have a contact number I can use for requesting assistance > within the airport from American Airlines/American Eagle? I have been > searchign and can not seem to finda number. There sight says I can > request assistance when checking in the day of trvel, but I would like to > set it up in advance if possible and I want to check in online so wouldnt > have to wait in the long lines at the counter. > >> From: jimi-law at dc.rr.com >> To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> Date: Sat, 5 Dec 2009 09:31:23 -0800 >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel / Canes >> >> Can you provide me a citation so I can check it out? Thanks. >> >> James W. Weisberg, Esq. >> >> Law Office of J. William Weisberg >> >> 299 South Patencio Road #3 >> >> Palm Springs, California 92262 >> >> V: 916.425.1010 >> >> F: 916.374.7667 >> >> E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com >> >> Admitted in Wisconsin >> >> Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil Rights >> Advocacy for Children with Diabetes >> >> This message contains information which may be confidential and >> privileged. >> Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the >> addressee), >> you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any >> information >> contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, >> please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from your >> system. >> >> This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client >> relationship >> nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William >> Weisberg >> expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in >> accordance with this disclaimer. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf Of Patti Gregory-Chang >> Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 5:46 AM >> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel / Canes >> >> There is a subsection e in the regs that allows us to keep our canes as >> long >> >> as they are by the window. >> >> P.S. National Federation of the Blind of Illinois is now on twitter at >> www.twitter.com/nfbi. >> We also have a facebook page. Just search for our full name. >> >> Patti Gregory-Chang >> President, National Federation of the Blind of Illinois >> pattichang at att.net >> www.nfbofillinois.org >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: >> To: >> Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 5:19 PM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel / Canes >> >> >> > I'm not sure. DHS doesn't have jurisdiction over what happens on the >> > planes themselves - that's Department of Transportation, so Craig might >> > know. >> > However, I know there are regs that prohibit loose items from being >> > permitted to remain loose during take-off and landing. That's usually >> > how >> >> > the air >> > carriers get us to give up our canes. I lay my cane along the fusalage >> > as >> > well, Millie, and no one has ever said a word about that either. >> > >> > >> > >> > In a message dated 12/4/2009 9:34:40 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, >> > mildredrivera at yahoo.com writes: >> > >> > I prefer to use a long white cane. When I sit in the aisle, I just ask >> > the >> > person near the window if I can stow it there and no one has ever >> > turned >> > me down. I was wondering if anyone knows, maybe Ronza, if I have a >> > right >> > to >> > have the cane at my reach? I maintain that I do, but don't know any reg >> > or >> > airline policy that actually says that I do. >> > >> > Have a blessed day !!! :), Millie >> > >> > --- On Fri, 12/4/09, Reyazuddin, Yasmin >> > wrote: >> > >> > >> > From: Reyazuddin, Yasmin >> > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel / Canes >> > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> > Date: Friday, December 4, 2009, 8:06 AM >> > >> > >> > Hi Millie, >> > It has happened to me too. I have given them the cane and they have >> > placed >> > in a secure place. I was in the ile seat and had no wall near me. They >> > also put the cane in the overhead bin but are careful that it does not >> > fall >> > out. The airline staff are willing to help me get to the bathroom or >> > bring me >> > soft drinks. I am talking about long flights lasting 7 to 9 hours. >> > >> > Yasmin Reyazuddin >> > Information & Referral unit >> > Department of Health & human services >> > 401 Hungerford Drive (1st floor) >> > Rockville MD 20850 >> > Phone 240-777-1245 (info line) >> > 240-777-1556 (personal line) >> > Fax: 240-777-4636 >> > TTY: 240-777-1295 >> > >> > Office hours 8:30 am to 5:00 pm >> > >> > Languages English, Hindi, Urdu >> > >> > This message may contain protected health information or other >> > information >> > that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended >> > recipient, >> > please contact the sender by return mail and destroy any copies of this >> > material. >> > >> > Thank you. >> > >> > >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >> > On >> > Behalf Of Millie Rivera-Rau >> > Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 10:19 PM >> > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >> > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel / Canes >> > >> > I have a question. Lately my long white cane has been taken from me >> > after >> > I get on the plane. Sometimes I can convince the personnel that I >> > should >> > be >> > permitted to keep it but other times I am not successful. Is there >> > something that I can site that would get through to them? Or, am I >> > required to >> > relinquish it? For some reason it has been a problem more in the last >> > two >> > years then ever before. I push it to a point just after making a scene. >> > smile. >> > The thing that really gets me is that they want to put it in an >> > overhead >> > bin and usually it falls out as soon as the bin is opened and hits >> > someone on >> > the head! Then the other passengers realize I was right. Any thoughts. >> > >> > Millie >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > --- On Wed, 12/2/09, AZNOR99 at aol.com wrote: >> > >> > >> > From: AZNOR99 at aol.com >> > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel >> > To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> > Date: Wednesday, December 2, 2009, 12:24 PM >> > >> > >> > Hello, >> > >> > This is an interesting subject. TSA is generally not responsible for >> > providing a traveler with a guide as a passenger goes through >> > screening. >> > You >> > can always request a Companion Pass from the airline for someone to >> > accompany you; however, it is at the discretion of the airline as to >> > whether or not >> > they grant this request. Most do grant the Pass as long as you give >> > them >> > a valid reason, and most accept accompanying a minor or passenger with >> > a >> > disability or elderly individual as a valid reason. You can request a >> > Companion Pass from the airline at the time of check-in if you bring >> > someone with >> > you to drop you off - you don't necessarily have to let the airline >> > know >> > in advance that you plan to do this. If you want someone to meet you at >> > the >> > gate when you arrive though, you'll need to let the airline know in >> > advance. This is because you won't actually be with the person when >> > they >> > obtain >> > the Companion Pass, so the airline can't verify that they know you or >> > that >> > you'd want them to pick you up. Companions are subject to the same >> > screening and security measures as passengers - valid State or Federal >> > ID, human >> > and belonging scans, etc. TSA does not have jurisdiction over Companion >> > Pass issuance - that is at the discretion of the airlines - they are >> > subject >> > to the regs of the FAA. >> > >> > You can ask for a Guide at the airport as well. Generally airlines >> > prefer >> > you do this in advance, but you can certainly choose to make such a >> > request when you arrive at the airport or land at your destination. If >> > you don't >> > let them know you need someone in advance though, you might have to >> > wait >> > longer for someone to arrive, as airlines try to have staff waiting for >> > passengers about whom they know. We've all seen the line of wheel >> > chairs >> > and >> > uniformed staff waiting when we deplane? Well, they're each usually >> > assigned to a particular person, and they usually know who that person >> > is >> > ahead of >> > time. Airlines, and sometimes airports, are increasingly creating >> > "Passenger Assistance Departments," and escorting passengers is one of >> > their >> > primary functions. >> > >> > There are some airports that utilize the airport police or other >> > airport >> > staff as escorts rather than airline personnel. Sometimes this is >> > because >> > >> > it is incredibly difficult to credential staff for all areas of an >> > airport, >> > which such staff need to possess. Sometimes it may be a small airport, >> > and >> > it would be more efficient to assign escort responsibilities to one >> > person >> > for all the airlines. Or there might be other reasons. >> > >> > However, TSOs - Transportation Security Officers) are trained in how to >> > interact with disabled passengers. For example, if you place your cane >> > on >> > >> > the conveyer belt, a TSO may offer to position you prior to entering >> > the >> > human >> > scanner and reach out to hold your hands to guide you forward. Due to >> > the >> > nature of the scanning equipment, a passenger must not touch the >> > scanning >> > machine - it will not function properly if anything comes into contact >> > with >> > it. Some of us have had the experience of bumping the machine and >> > setting >> > it off in the past. >> > >> > If you run your cane through the baggage scanner and ask for it back to >> > take through the human scanner, you have to be very careful, once >> > again, >> > not >> > to tap the scanner walls with the cane - it will likely set the machine >> > off. >> > Also, if your cane has metal - many of us use metal tips - then it may >> > cause the scanner to go off, necessitating the individual be referred >> > to >> > secondary screening or wanding. >> > >> > I've personally had the experience of placing my cane on the baggage >> > scanning belt and walking toward the human scanner. I walked through >> > the >> > scanner very slowly and did not set it off. However, I was referred to >> > secondary. I always ask why I'm being referred to Secondary (I'm in the >> > business of >> > wanting to know if I'm being discriminated against because of my >> > religion, >> > national origin, or disability). The answer I usually get (not always >> > though, and I've got some funny stories about other times) is "it's >> > random." >> > I conveyed to the TSO that I could not move to the secondary screening >> > area >> > until someone retrieved my cane from the conveyer belt. He got it for >> > me >> > and asked, "Oh, is the reason you moved so slowly through the scanner >> > because you are blind?" I answered that it was, and he told me I was >> > free >> > to go. >> > I insisted on going to Secondary, and he said, "Well you don't need to. >> > Your behavior isn't suspicious. I just thought it was because I didn't >> > know >> > you were being careful not to bump the machine since you couldn't see >> > well." Part of their jobs as TSOs is to monitor suspicious behavior; >> > part >> > of my >> > job is to convey the difference between suspicious behavior and >> > cultural >> > >> > norms. Needless to say I insisted on going to Secondary because I >> > wanted >> > the chance to talk the issue through with the TSO. It was a teachable >> > moment, >> > and I think he really got there could be hundreds of reasons why >> > someone >> > might move slowly through a machine. >> > >> > But for those that have had really bad experiences at TSA or CBP >> > checkpoints, there are a couple of different avenues you can take. If >> > you >> > believe >> > you have been the subject of discrimination, you may file a CRCL (DHS >> > Office >> > for Civil Rights and Civil Liberties - and where I work) complaint. Go >> > to >> > _www.dhs.gov/civilliberties_ (http://www.dhs.gov/civilliberties) to >> > download the form or send an email to _civil.liberties at dhs.gov_ >> > (mailto:civil.liberties at dhs.gov) explaining what happened. Please be >> > sure to give as much >> > detail as possible, including the date, airport name, terminal number, >> > time >> > of day, the name of anyone you obtain, and a narrative explaining what >> > happened. If you have a customer service issue - for example a TSO was >> > rude >> > or dismissive, you may ask for a supervisor, a comment card, or both. >> > You >> > can also contact your local field office after the fact to convey what >> > happened. >> > >> > My message is substantially longer than I intended, and I apologize for >> > the >> > length. >> > >> > Regards, >> > Ronza >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > In a message dated 12/2/2009 4:25:21 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, >> > ckrugman at sbcglobal.net writes: >> > >> > I travel frequently alone and the air lines and/or HSA provide needed >> > assistence upon my request. including through security check points and >> > picking up baggage and assistence with procuring ground transportation >> > or >> > to >> > a waiting party. I have found HSA and airport staff to be very >> > cooperative. >> > Chuck >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> > From: "stiehm.law" >> > To: >> > Cc: >> > Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 12:57 PM >> > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel >> > >> > >> >> In addition to the airlines, I have recently become curious as to what >> > if >> >> any, accommodations for the TSA makes with respect to disabled people >> >> going through security and being picked up by somebody at the gate at >> > the >> >> terminal at the other end of the flight. For example, do they permit a >> >> blind person who is traveling alone to be accompanied through >> > security, >> >> down to the airline check-in counter at the gate by a non-ticketed >> >> person. >> >> >> >> At the other end, is a non-ticketed person permitted through security >> >> to >> >> go to the gate to meet a blind person flying alone? >> >> >> >> If TSA does not provide for such accommodations do the airlines take >> >> it >> >> on themselves to provide this service? >> >> >> >> Has anybody had any experience in this regard? Is the accommodation, >> >> if >> >> any, voluntary on the part of the TSA and/or the airlines or is it >> >> governed by regulation? >> >> >> >> Patrick H. Stiehm >> >> Stiehm Law Office >> >> Alexandria, VA 22309 >> >> 703-360-1089 (Voice) >> >> 703-935-8266 (Fax) >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Tue, 1 Dec 2009 11:30:37 -0800 "Russell J. Thomas, Jr." >> >> writes: >> >>> Off the top of my head, and without any new research, the only case >> >>> I >> >>> remember is a case challenging the accessibility of airline websites >> >>> with >> >>> respect to attempting to make reservations and ordering tickets on >> >>> line. >> >>> >> >>> I also think that there are regulations on the subject, especially >> >>> dealing >> >>> with how disabled passengers are to be treated (or perhaps on some >> >>> occasions >> >>> mistreated). >> >>> >> >>> I often thought it would be a good idea for the NFB to put together >> >>> a short >> >>> guide book concerning travel, including air travel, based upon >> >>> experiences >> >>> of NFB members, to be used as a reference guide for blind people who >> >>> use air >> >>> travel. Certainly things have changed since 911--some changes for >> >>> the good, >> >>> and others not so good. >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> Respectfully, >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> Russell J. Thomas, Jr. >> >>> >> >>> THOMAS & ASSOCIATES >> >>> >> >>> www.californiaemployersattorneys.com >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> Orange County Office >> >>> >> >>> 4121 Westerly Place, Suite 101 >> >>> >> >>> Newport Beach, California 92660 >> >>> >> >>> T: (949) 752-0101 >> >>> >> >>> F: (949) 257-4756 >> >>> >> >>> M: (949) 466-7238 >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> Beverly Hills Office >> >>> >> >>> 9107 Wilshire Boulevard, Suite 450 >> >>> >> >>> Beverly Hills, California 90210 >> >>> >> >>> T: (310) 461-3561 >> >>> >> >>> -----Original Message----- >> >>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >> >>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> >>> Behalf Of James Weisberg >> >>> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 10:01 AM >> >>> To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' >> >>> Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel >> >>> >> >>> Hi Folks: >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> Anyone on the lists have experience or knowledge regarding the ADA >> >>> and suits >> >>> against air carriers for violations available for quick consult? >> >>> Thanks. >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> James W. Weisberg, Esq. >> >>> >> >>> Law Office of J. William Weisberg >> >>> >> >>> 299 South Patencio Road #3 >> >>> >> >>> Palm Springs, California 92262 >> >>> >> >>> V: 916.425.1010 >> >>> >> >>> F: 916.374.7667 >> >>> >> >>> E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com >> >>> >> >>> Admitted in Wisconsin >> >>> >> >>> Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil >> >>> Rights >> >>> Advocacy for Children with Diabetes >> >>> >> >>> This message contains information which may be confidential and >> >>> privileged. >> >>> Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the >> >>> addressee), >> >>> you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any >> >>> information >> >>> contained in this message. If you have received this message in >> >>> error, >> >>> please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from >> >>> your >> >>> system. >> >>> >> >>> This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client >> >>> relationship >> >>> nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. 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Click here to book a hotel online. >> >> >> > >> http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/c?cp=ewJKbyZ61QloDsW_i_oQ_wAAJ1BdRO >> > y9vkzpR6E_Fj7jZTbnAAYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAATRAAAAAA= >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> blindlaw mailing list >> >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> >> blindlaw: >> >> >> > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob >> > al.net >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > blindlaw mailing list >> > blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> > blindlaw: >> > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/aznor99%40aol.com >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > blindlaw mailing list >> > blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> > blindlaw: >> > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mildredrivera%40ya >> > hoo.com >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > blindlaw mailing list >> > blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> > blindlaw: >> > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/yasmin.reyazuddin% >> > 40montgomerycountymd.gov >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > blindlaw mailing list >> > blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> > blindlaw: >> > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mildredrivera%40ya >> > hoo.com >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > blindlaw mailing list >> > blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> > blindlaw: >> > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/aznor99%40aol.com >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > blindlaw mailing list >> > blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> > blindlaw: >> > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pattichang%40att.n >> et >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jimi-law%40dc.rr.c >> om >> >> __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus >> signature >> database 4661 (20091204) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus >> signature >> database 4661 (20091204) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus >> signature >> database 4662 (20091205) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus >> signature >> database 4662 (20091205) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/timandvickie%40hotmail.com > > _________________________________________________________________ > Chat with Messenger straight from your Hotmail inbox. > http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowslive/hotmail_bl1/hotmail_bl1.aspx?ocid=PID23879::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-ww:WM_IMHM_4:092009 > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net From benkarpilow at gmail.com Mon Dec 7 15:50:03 2009 From: benkarpilow at gmail.com (Ben Karpilow) Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2009 07:50:03 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] Westlaw or Lexis Message-ID: Fellow Listers, do you preferWestlaw or Lexis, and why? (I'm on the verge of beginning my legal career and would like your collective insight). Thanks, Ben From jimi-law at dc.rr.com Mon Dec 7 16:15:23 2009 From: jimi-law at dc.rr.com (James Weisberg) Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2009 08:15:23 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] Westlaw or Lexis In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8F2F30B555C345D1A4AD5AD2438CB2C7@screnci.local> My preference is Westlaw as they have some pretty good support for JAWS. I have a contact name and number but have never used it for JAWS training on Westlaw (which is provided by West). James W. Weisberg, Esq. Law Office of J. William Weisberg 299 South Patencio Road #3 Palm Springs, California 92262 V: 916.425.1010 F: 916.374.7667 E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com Admitted in Wisconsin Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil Rights Advocacy for Children with Diabetes This message contains information which may be confidential and privileged. Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from your system. This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client relationship nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William Weisberg expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in accordance with this disclaimer. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ben Karpilow Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 7:50 AM To: blind law mailing list Subject: [blindlaw] Westlaw or Lexis Fellow Listers, do you preferWestlaw or Lexis, and why? (I'm on the verge of beginning my legal career and would like your collective insight). Thanks, Ben _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jimi-law%40dc.rr.c om __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4667 (20091207) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4667 (20091207) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4667 (20091207) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com From agtolentino at gmail.com Mon Dec 7 16:42:58 2009 From: agtolentino at gmail.com (Aser Tolentino) Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2009 08:42:58 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] Westlaw or Lexis In-Reply-To: <8F2F30B555C345D1A4AD5AD2438CB2C7@screnci.local> References: <8F2F30B555C345D1A4AD5AD2438CB2C7@screnci.local> Message-ID: I like Westlaw because of the text only interface, which is good enough to accomplish most research tasks. On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 8:15 AM, James Weisberg wrote: > My preference is Westlaw as they have some pretty good support for JAWS. I > have a contact name and number but have never used it for JAWS training on > Westlaw (which is provided by West). > > James W. Weisberg, Esq. > > Law Office of J. William Weisberg > > 299 South Patencio Road #3 > > Palm Springs, California 92262 > > V: 916.425.1010 > > F: 916.374.7667 > > E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com > > Admitted in Wisconsin > > Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil Rights > Advocacy for Children with Diabetes > > This message contains information which may be confidential and privileged. > Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), > you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information > contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, > please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from your > system. > > This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client > relationship > nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William Weisberg > expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in > accordance with this disclaimer. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of Ben Karpilow > Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 7:50 AM > To: blind law mailing list > Subject: [blindlaw] Westlaw or Lexis > > Fellow Listers, do you preferWestlaw or Lexis, and why? (I'm on the verge > of > beginning my legal career and would like your collective insight). Thanks, > Ben > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jimi-law%40dc.rr.c > om > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature > database 4667 (20091207) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature > database 4667 (20091207) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature > database 4667 (20091207) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/agtolentino%40gmail.com > From Susan.Kelly at pima.gov Mon Dec 7 16:57:45 2009 From: Susan.Kelly at pima.gov (Susan Kelly) Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2009 09:57:45 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Westlaw or Lexis In-Reply-To: <8F2F30B555C345D1A4AD5AD2438CB2C7@screnci.local> References: <8F2F30B555C345D1A4AD5AD2438CB2C7@screnci.local> Message-ID: <1C09B58171332F49B237676A5158B1F7033D68D4@EVS02.central.pima.gov> Our office has a Westlaw contract, so we didn't get much choice, When I first started needing an adaptive tool for the computer, I was very annoyed with it, because it was not working well with my screen magnifier/reader (WinZoom) - then our rep told me about www.text.westlaw.com, the text-only version - and it is working quite well. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of James Weisberg Sent: Monday, 07 December, 2009 9:15 AM To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Westlaw or Lexis My preference is Westlaw as they have some pretty good support for JAWS. I have a contact name and number but have never used it for JAWS training on Westlaw (which is provided by West). James W. Weisberg, Esq. Law Office of J. William Weisberg 299 South Patencio Road #3 Palm Springs, California 92262 V: 916.425.1010 F: 916.374.7667 E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com Admitted in Wisconsin Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil Rights Advocacy for Children with Diabetes This message contains information which may be confidential and privileged. Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from your system. This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client relationship nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William Weisberg expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in accordance with this disclaimer. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ben Karpilow Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 7:50 AM To: blind law mailing list Subject: [blindlaw] Westlaw or Lexis Fellow Listers, do you preferWestlaw or Lexis, and why? (I'm on the verge of beginning my legal career and would like your collective insight). Thanks, Ben _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jimi-law%40dc. rr.c om __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4667 (20091207) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4667 (20091207) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4667 (20091207) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40 pima.gov From angie.matney at gmail.com Mon Dec 7 20:12:09 2009 From: angie.matney at gmail.com (Angie Matney) Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2009 15:12:09 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Westlaw or Lexis In-Reply-To: <1C09B58171332F49B237676A5158B1F7033D68D4@EVS02.central.pima.gov> References: <8F2F30B555C345D1A4AD5AD2438CB2C7@screnci.local> <1C09B58171332F49B237676A5158B1F7033D68D4@EVS02.central.pima.gov> Message-ID: <37377A4018494CDE8467A107DD5AA342@arm4rPC> I have had positive experiences with both. the Lexis customer service people were very helpful when I called with a JAWS-related issue two years back. I'd say I probably prefer Westlaw because of the optional text site, but I don't use that as my default. I find the main site quite navigable with JAWS. I will use the text site if I have a very good idea of what I want to find, or if I want to pull up specific sources. Angie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Susan Kelly" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 11:57 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Westlaw or Lexis > Our office has a Westlaw contract, so we didn't get much choice, When I > first started needing an adaptive tool for the computer, I was very > annoyed with it, because it was not working well with my screen > magnifier/reader (WinZoom) - then our rep told me about > www.text.westlaw.com, the text-only version - and it is working quite > well. > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] > On Behalf Of James Weisberg > Sent: Monday, 07 December, 2009 9:15 AM > To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Westlaw or Lexis > > My preference is Westlaw as they have some pretty good support for JAWS. > I > have a contact name and number but have never used it for JAWS training > on > Westlaw (which is provided by West). > > James W. Weisberg, Esq. > > Law Office of J. William Weisberg > > 299 South Patencio Road #3 > > Palm Springs, California 92262 > > V: 916.425.1010 > > F: 916.374.7667 > > E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com > > Admitted in Wisconsin > > Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil > Rights > Advocacy for Children with Diabetes > > This message contains information which may be confidential and > privileged. > Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the > addressee), > you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any > information > contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, > please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from > your > system. > > This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client > relationship > nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William > Weisberg > expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in > accordance with this disclaimer. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] > On > Behalf Of Ben Karpilow > Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 7:50 AM > To: blind law mailing list > Subject: [blindlaw] Westlaw or Lexis > > Fellow Listers, do you preferWestlaw or Lexis, and why? (I'm on the > verge of > beginning my legal career and would like your collective insight). > Thanks, > Ben > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jimi-law%40dc. > rr.c > om > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4667 (20091207) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4667 (20091207) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4667 (20091207) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40 > pima.gov > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie.matney%40gmail.com > From rumpole at roadrunner.com Mon Dec 7 22:33:09 2009 From: rumpole at roadrunner.com (Ross Doerr) Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2009 17:33:09 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Westlaw or Lexis References: <8F2F30B555C345D1A4AD5AD2438CB2C7@screnci.local> <1C09B58171332F49B237676A5158B1F7033D68D4@EVS02.central.pima.gov> Message-ID: <22FF7A097ABD489282DB77581BCA094D@none8a46117901> I would ekoe that -- our office has a contract with westlaw so there wasn't much choice for me. Having said that, I use the text only version exclusively simply because I got myself trained on it and am sufficiently busy that using only one research tool is all that I can handle. I find their tech support to be pretty good too. I suppose my remaining complaint would be that What I'd really like is to be able to get a Black's law dictionary installed on my hard drive. I like being able to look things up from a hard drive and not have to go online just because its accessible there. But thats just me - the computerized crowd view me, and justly so, as being a bit of a ludite. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Susan Kelly" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 11:57 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Westlaw or Lexis > Our office has a Westlaw contract, so we didn't get much choice, When I > first started needing an adaptive tool for the computer, I was very > annoyed with it, because it was not working well with my screen > magnifier/reader (WinZoom) - then our rep told me about > www.text.westlaw.com, the text-only version - and it is working quite > well. > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] > On Behalf Of James Weisberg > Sent: Monday, 07 December, 2009 9:15 AM > To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Westlaw or Lexis > > My preference is Westlaw as they have some pretty good support for JAWS. > I > have a contact name and number but have never used it for JAWS training > on > Westlaw (which is provided by West). > > James W. Weisberg, Esq. > > Law Office of J. William Weisberg > > 299 South Patencio Road #3 > > Palm Springs, California 92262 > > V: 916.425.1010 > > F: 916.374.7667 > > E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com > > Admitted in Wisconsin > > Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil > Rights > Advocacy for Children with Diabetes > > This message contains information which may be confidential and > privileged. > Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the > addressee), > you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any > information > contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, > please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from > your > system. > > This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client > relationship > nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William > Weisberg > expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in > accordance with this disclaimer. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] > On > Behalf Of Ben Karpilow > Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 7:50 AM > To: blind law mailing list > Subject: [blindlaw] Westlaw or Lexis > > Fellow Listers, do you preferWestlaw or Lexis, and why? (I'm on the > verge of > beginning my legal career and would like your collective insight). > Thanks, > Ben > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jimi-law%40dc. > rr.c > om > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4667 (20091207) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4667 (20091207) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4667 (20091207) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40 > pima.gov > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rumpole%40roadrunner.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.426 / Virus Database: 270.14.96/2548 - Release Date: 12/06/09 07:30:00 From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Mon Dec 7 22:42:49 2009 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2009 14:42:49 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] Westlaw or Lexis In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I have used both. Both are accessible with screen reading software. My pereference is Westlaw mainly because I prefer their style of organization and it was what I was first trained with back in the days of research using books and live readers. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ben Karpilow" To: "blind law mailing list" Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 7:50 AM Subject: [blindlaw] Westlaw or Lexis > Fellow Listers, do you preferWestlaw or Lexis, and why? (I'm on the verge > of beginning my legal career and would like your collective insight). > Thanks, Ben > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net From r.g.munro at gmail.com Mon Dec 7 23:03:35 2009 From: r.g.munro at gmail.com (Robert Munro) Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2009 18:03:35 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Westlaw or Lexis In-Reply-To: <1C09B58171332F49B237676A5158B1F7033D68D4@EVS02.central.pima.gov> References: <8F2F30B555C345D1A4AD5AD2438CB2C7@screnci.local> <1C09B58171332F49B237676A5158B1F7033D68D4@EVS02.central.pima.gov> Message-ID: <4b1d89c4.47c1f10a.3322.ffffd492@mx.google.com> Westlaw and Lexis are about the same, except for the Westlaw digest. This was extremely useful the past two summers when I worked for judges. Have your Westlaw rep show you how it works, and you'll be a goldmine of information to your colleagues. Onward! Rob Munro -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Susan Kelly Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 11:58 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Westlaw or Lexis Our office has a Westlaw contract, so we didn't get much choice, When I first started needing an adaptive tool for the computer, I was very annoyed with it, because it was not working well with my screen magnifier/reader (WinZoom) - then our rep told me about www.text.westlaw.com, the text-only version - and it is working quite well. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of James Weisberg Sent: Monday, 07 December, 2009 9:15 AM To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Westlaw or Lexis My preference is Westlaw as they have some pretty good support for JAWS. I have a contact name and number but have never used it for JAWS training on Westlaw (which is provided by West). James W. Weisberg, Esq. Law Office of J. William Weisberg 299 South Patencio Road #3 Palm Springs, California 92262 V: 916.425.1010 F: 916.374.7667 E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com Admitted in Wisconsin Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil Rights Advocacy for Children with Diabetes This message contains information which may be confidential and privileged. Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from your system. This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client relationship nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William Weisberg expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in accordance with this disclaimer. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ben Karpilow Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 7:50 AM To: blind law mailing list Subject: [blindlaw] Westlaw or Lexis Fellow Listers, do you preferWestlaw or Lexis, and why? (I'm on the verge of beginning my legal career and would like your collective insight). Thanks, Ben _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jimi-law%40dc. rr.c om __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4667 (20091207) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4667 (20091207) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4667 (20091207) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40 pima.gov _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/r.g.munro%40gmail. com From dandrews at visi.com Tue Dec 8 12:59:52 2009 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Tue, 08 Dec 2009 06:59:52 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] Amazon's Kindle to get audible menus, bigger font Message-ID: Amazon's Kindle to get audible menus, bigger font By Jessica Mintz Associated Press Posted: 12/07/2009 01:55:11 PM PST Updated: 12/07/2009 03:47:24 PM PST SEATTLE ­ Amazon.com will add two features to the Kindle e-book reader to make the gadget more accessible to blind and vision-impaired users. Monday's announcement comes a month after Syracuse University in Syracuse, N.Y., and the University of Wisconsin-Madison said they would not consider widely deploying the device as an alternative to paper textbooks until Amazon makes it easier for blind students to use. Both universities bought some Kindles to test this fall. The Kindle has a read-aloud feature that could be a boon to blind students and those with other disabilities including dyslexia, but turning it on requires navigating through screens of text menus. Amazon said Monday it is working on audible menus, which would let the Kindle speak menu options out loud. It's also working on an extra-large font for people with impaired vision. The additions should reach the Kindle next summer, Amazon said. Chris Danielsen, a spokesman for the National Federation of the Blind, said Monday that the organization doesn't know enough about the new features to say whether they adequately address concerns of the blind community. But, he said, it's a good sign Amazon is expressing commitment to improve the Kindle. Amazon released this year the $489 Kindle DX, a large-screen model aimed at textbook and newspaper readers. Several colleges including Arizona State University are testing the gadget this academic year and sending feedback to the company. The federation for the blind, which is based in Baltimore, teamed up with another advocacy group, the American Council of the Blind, to sue Arizona State in an attempt to block it from using the Kindle as a way to distribute electronic textbooks because the devices can't be used by blind students. It also filed complaints with the Justice Department against five other schools participating in the Kindle trial with Amazon: Case Western Reserve University in Cleveland, the Darden School of Business at the University of Virginia in Charlottesville, Va., Pace University in New York, Princeton University in Princeton, N.J., and Reed College in Portland, Ore. Syracuse University and the University of Wisconsin were not among the pilot-test schools. Danielsen declined to comment when asked if Amazon's proposed changes would lead the federation to abandon its complaints. From m_b_gilmore at yahoo.com Tue Dec 8 18:05:11 2009 From: m_b_gilmore at yahoo.com (Mike Gilmore) Date: Tue, 8 Dec 2009 10:05:11 -0800 (PST) Subject: [blindlaw] Westlaw question Message-ID: <399885.76182.qm@web112407.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Hello everyone.   I've been monitoring the Westlaw versus Lexis debate and I'm a Westlaw man. When I was a 1L, I began using Lexis and Westlaw a semester ahead of my sighted folks because they were learning the old-fashioned way of print materials. My law school had (and still does) a strict policy against collaboration for 1L's. (On a side note, this meant that I could use a sighted 2L or 3L to look up how to cite something in the blue book and then I would do the exercises.) I loved the text only Westlaw site and found Lexis to be frustrating. I could Sheppardize to my heart's content; I just found Westlaw easier to find the stuff that I was looking for.   So, what's this about the West Digest on Westlaw? How do you access it and what type of information does it provide? Also, if I recall correctly, Westlaw only goes back to the late '70's or early '80's for the code of federal regulations. If any of you use the C.F.R. and need a reg that dates prior to Westlaw's collection, where do you go on the Internet to find it?   Thanks.   Mike From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov Wed Dec 9 22:37:52 2009 From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel) Date: Wed, 9 Dec 2009 16:37:52 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] Amazon Working on Accessibility Features for Kindle, WebProNews, December 7 2009 Message-ID: Link: http://www.webpronews.com/topnews/2009/12/07/amazon-working-on-accessibility-features-for-kindle Text: Amazon Working on Accessibility Features for Kindle Amazon Making Kindle Improvements for Blind and Dyslexic By Chris Crum Amazon is making some enhancements to its Kindle electronic reader, aimed at improving the reading experience for people who are blind, visually impaired, or dyslexic. "Kindle is for anyone who loves to read-in fact, we've heard from thousands of vision-impaired customers and customers with learning disabilities over the past two years who have been helped tremendously by Kindle," said Amazon Kindle Vice President Ian Freed, Vice President. "With some key modifications, we believe Kindle can be a breakthrough device for the blind, and the team is excited about making these enhancements," added Freed. To make Kindle more useful for the blind, the Kindle team is currently working on an audible menuing system so blind and vision-impaired readers can easily navigate to books without the need for assistance. Blind people will also be able to listen to books with the "Read to Me" feature, just as they can currently do with the Kindle. Amazon will also include a new "super size" font, which increases the number of font sizes from six to eleven. The seventh size will be twice the height and width of the current largest font. Amazon's new Kindle features are scheduled to be released next summer. The device saw record sales in November. Amazon said it was the most "wished" for, the most "gifted," and the number one best-selling product across all of Amazon's product categories. Amazon was of course one of the top retail sites for Thanksgiving and Black Friday, and will likely be up there for the holiday season as a whole. From darlene.olsen at gmail.com Thu Dec 10 02:36:32 2009 From: darlene.olsen at gmail.com (Darlene Olsen) Date: Wed, 9 Dec 2009 18:36:32 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel / Canes References: <368035.91609.qm@web33006.mail.mud.yahoo.com><27D8A78BB0DF477DBDCCAF0D2A602EBF@screnci.local> <3A18ED1C06D3401AA8C99D87EA1966E7@StevePC> Message-ID: I strongly suggest that the training include international ships that travel inside the U.S. territory. Holland America Cruise Lines could use some assistance in this venue. Darlene Olsen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. Deeley" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 8:59 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel / Canes > Maybe we should form a consulting firm and offer disability training to > all airlines. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "James Weisberg" > To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" > Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 6:36 AM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel / Canes > > > I use a folding cane, which none of the airline personnel would have > reason > to know, and have NEVER had that issue with a fair amount of air travel. > I > take my folding cane after taking my seat and place it in the magazine > compartment in front of me on the seat back (cane = no dog as dog is far > superior! Fact!!) Perhaps you don't resemble a dirt bag like myself > which > may account for your additional obstacles? :-) > > James W. Weisberg, Esq. > > Law Office of J. William Weisberg > > 299 South Patencio Road #3 > > Palm Springs, California 92262 > > V: 916.425.1010 > > F: 916.374.7667 > > E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com > > Admitted in Wisconsin > > Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil Rights > Advocacy for Children with Diabetes > > This message contains information which may be confidential and > privileged. > Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), > you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information > contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, > please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from your > system. > > This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client > relationship > nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William > Weisberg > expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in > accordance with this disclaimer. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of Millie Rivera-Rau > Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 7:19 PM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel / Canes > > I have a question. Lately my long white cane has been taken from me after > I > get on the plane. Sometimes I can convince the personnel that I should be > permitted to keep it but other times I am not successful. Is there > something > that I can site that would get through to them? Or, am I required to > relinquish it? For some reason it has been a problem more in the last two > years then ever before. I push it to a point just after making a scene. > smile. The thing that really gets me is that they want to put it in an > overhead bin and usually it falls out as soon as the bin is opened and > hits > someone on the head! Then the other passengers realize I was right. Any > thoughts. > > Millie > > > > > > --- On Wed, 12/2/09, AZNOR99 at aol.com wrote: > > > From: AZNOR99 at aol.com > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org > Date: Wednesday, December 2, 2009, 12:24 PM > > > Hello, > > This is an interesting subject. TSA is generally not responsible for > providing a traveler with a guide as a passenger goes through screening. > You > can always request a Companion Pass from the airline for someone to > accompany you; however, it is at the discretion of the airline as to > whether or not > they grant this request. Most do grant the Pass as long as you give them > a valid reason, and most accept accompanying a minor or passenger with a > disability or elderly individual as a valid reason. You can request a > Companion Pass from the airline at the time of check-in if you bring > someone with > you to drop you off - you don't necessarily have to let the airline know > in advance that you plan to do this. If you want someone to meet you at > the > gate when you arrive though, you'll need to let the airline know in > advance. This is because you won't actually be with the person when they > obtain > the Companion Pass, so the airline can't verify that they know you or that > you'd want them to pick you up. Companions are subject to the same > screening and security measures as passengers - valid State or Federal ID, > human > and belonging scans, etc. TSA does not have jurisdiction over Companion > Pass issuance - that is at the discretion of the airlines - they are > subject > to the regs of the FAA. > > You can ask for a Guide at the airport as well. Generally airlines prefer > you do this in advance, but you can certainly choose to make such a > request when you arrive at the airport or land at your destination. If you > don't > let them know you need someone in advance though, you might have to wait > longer for someone to arrive, as airlines try to have staff waiting for > passengers about whom they know. We've all seen the line of wheel chairs > and > uniformed staff waiting when we deplane? Well, they're each usually > assigned to a particular person, and they usually know who that person is > ahead of > time. Airlines, and sometimes airports, are increasingly creating > "Passenger Assistance Departments," and escorting passengers is one of > their > primary functions. > > There are some airports that utilize the airport police or other airport > staff as escorts rather than airline personnel. Sometimes this is because > it is incredibly difficult to credential staff for all areas of an > airport, > > which such staff need to possess. Sometimes it may be a small airport, and > > it would be more efficient to assign escort responsibilities to one person > for all the airlines. Or there might be other reasons. > > However, TSOs - Transportation Security Officers) are trained in how to > interact with disabled passengers. For example, if you place your cane on > the conveyer belt, a TSO may offer to position you prior to entering the > human > scanner and reach out to hold your hands to guide you forward. Due to the > nature of the scanning equipment, a passenger must not touch the scanning > machine - it will not function properly if anything comes into contact > with > it. Some of us have had the experience of bumping the machine and setting > it off in the past. > > If you run your cane through the baggage scanner and ask for it back to > take through the human scanner, you have to be very careful, once again, > not > > to tap the scanner walls with the cane - it will likely set the machine > off. > Also, if your cane has metal - many of us use metal tips - then it may > cause the scanner to go off, necessitating the individual be referred to > secondary screening or wanding. > > I've personally had the experience of placing my cane on the baggage > scanning belt and walking toward the human scanner. I walked through the > scanner very slowly and did not set it off. However, I was referred to > secondary. I always ask why I'm being referred to Secondary (I'm in the > business of > wanting to know if I'm being discriminated against because of my religion, > national origin, or disability). The answer I usually get (not always > though, and I've got some funny stories about other times) is "it's > random." > I conveyed to the TSO that I could not move to the secondary screening > area > > until someone retrieved my cane from the conveyer belt. He got it for me > and asked, "Oh, is the reason you moved so slowly through the scanner > because you are blind?" I answered that it was, and he told me I was free > to go. > I insisted on going to Secondary, and he said, "Well you don't need to. > Your behavior isn't suspicious. I just thought it was because I didn't > know > > you were being careful not to bump the machine since you couldn't see > well." Part of their jobs as TSOs is to monitor suspicious behavior; part > of my > job is to convey the difference between suspicious behavior and cultural > norms. Needless to say I insisted on going to Secondary because I wanted > the chance to talk the issue through with the TSO. It was a teachable > moment, > and I think he really got there could be hundreds of reasons why someone > might move slowly through a machine. > > But for those that have had really bad experiences at TSA or CBP > checkpoints, there are a couple of different avenues you can take. If you > believe > you have been the subject of discrimination, you may file a CRCL (DHS > Office > for Civil Rights and Civil Liberties - and where I work) complaint. Go to > _www.dhs.gov/civilliberties_ (http://www.dhs.gov/civilliberties) to > download the form or send an email to _civil.liberties at dhs.gov_ > (mailto:civil.liberties at dhs.gov) explaining what happened. Please be sure > to give as much > detail as possible, including the date, airport name, terminal number, > time > > of day, the name of anyone you obtain, and a narrative explaining what > happened. If you have a customer service issue - for example a TSO was > rude > or dismissive, you may ask for a supervisor, a comment card, or both. You > can also contact your local field office after the fact to convey what > happened. > > My message is substantially longer than I intended, and I apologize for > the > length. > > Regards, > Ronza > > > > > In a message dated 12/2/2009 4:25:21 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, > ckrugman at sbcglobal.net writes: > > I travel frequently alone and the air lines and/or HSA provide needed > assistence upon my request. including through security check points and > picking up baggage and assistence with procuring ground transportation or > to > a waiting party. I have found HSA and airport staff to be very > cooperative. > Chuck > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "stiehm.law" > To: > Cc: > Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 12:57 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > > >> In addition to the airlines, I have recently become curious as to what if >> any, accommodations for the TSA makes with respect to disabled people >> going through security and being picked up by somebody at the gate at the >> terminal at the other end of the flight. For example, do they permit a >> blind person who is traveling alone to be accompanied through security, >> down to the airline check-in counter at the gate by a non-ticketed >> person. >> >> At the other end, is a non-ticketed person permitted through security to >> go to the gate to meet a blind person flying alone? >> >> If TSA does not provide for such accommodations do the airlines take it >> on themselves to provide this service? >> >> Has anybody had any experience in this regard? Is the accommodation, if >> any, voluntary on the part of the TSA and/or the airlines or is it >> governed by regulation? >> >> Patrick H. Stiehm >> Stiehm Law Office >> Alexandria, VA 22309 >> 703-360-1089 (Voice) >> 703-935-8266 (Fax) >> >> >> >> Tue, 1 Dec 2009 11:30:37 -0800 "Russell J. Thomas, Jr." >> writes: >>> Off the top of my head, and without any new research, the only case >>> I >>> remember is a case challenging the accessibility of airline websites >>> with >>> respect to attempting to make reservations and ordering tickets on >>> line. >>> >>> I also think that there are regulations on the subject, especially >>> dealing >>> with how disabled passengers are to be treated (or perhaps on some >>> occasions >>> mistreated). >>> >>> I often thought it would be a good idea for the NFB to put together >>> a short >>> guide book concerning travel, including air travel, based upon >>> experiences >>> of NFB members, to be used as a reference guide for blind people who >>> use air >>> travel. Certainly things have changed since 911--some changes for >>> the good, >>> and others not so good. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Respectfully, >>> >>> >>> >>> Russell J. Thomas, Jr. >>> >>> THOMAS & ASSOCIATES >>> >>> www.californiaemployersattorneys.com >>> >>> >>> >>> Orange County Office >>> >>> 4121 Westerly Place, Suite 101 >>> >>> Newport Beach, California 92660 >>> >>> T: (949) 752-0101 >>> >>> F: (949) 257-4756 >>> >>> M: (949) 466-7238 >>> >>> >>> >>> Beverly Hills Office >>> >>> 9107 Wilshire Boulevard, Suite 450 >>> >>> Beverly Hills, California 90210 >>> >>> T: (310) 461-3561 >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>> Behalf Of James Weisberg >>> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 10:01 AM >>> To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' >>> Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel >>> >>> Hi Folks: >>> >>> >>> >>> Anyone on the lists have experience or knowledge regarding the ADA >>> and suits >>> against air carriers for violations available for quick consult? >>> Thanks. >>> >>> >>> >>> James W. Weisberg, Esq. >>> >>> Law Office of J. William Weisberg >>> >>> 299 South Patencio Road #3 >>> >>> Palm Springs, California 92262 >>> >>> V: 916.425.1010 >>> >>> F: 916.374.7667 >>> >>> E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com >>> >>> Admitted in Wisconsin >>> >>> Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil >>> Rights >>> Advocacy for Children with Diabetes >>> >>> This message contains information which may be confidential and >>> privileged. >>> Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the >>> addressee), >>> you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any >>> information >>> contained in this message. If you have received this message in >>> error, >>> please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from >>> your >>> system. >>> >>> This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client >>> relationship >>> nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William >>> Weisberg >>> expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information >>> in >>> accordance with this disclaimer. >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> blindlaw: >>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rthomas%40rjtla >> wfi >>> rm.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for blindlaw: >>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stiehm.law%40ju >> no.com >>> >> >> ____________________________________________________________ >> Hotel >> Hotel pics, info and virtual tours. Click here to book a hotel online. >> > http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/c?cp=ewJKbyZ61QloDsW_i_oQ_wAAJ1BdRO > y9vkzpR6E_Fj7jZTbnAAYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAATRAAAAAA= >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob > al.net > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/aznor99%40aol.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mildredrivera%40ya > hoo.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jimi-law%40dc.rr.c > om > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4659 (20091203) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4659 (20091203) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4660 (20091204) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4660 (20091204) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.426 / Virus Database: 270.14.93/2544 - Release Date: 12/04/09 > 07:32:00 > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/darlene.olsen%40gmail.com > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature database 4661 (20091204) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4674 (20091209) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From ms at browngold.com Thu Dec 10 17:24:36 2009 From: ms at browngold.com (Mehgan Sidhu) Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2009 12:24:36 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Help request re MPRE / Bar Exam accommodations matter Message-ID: Dear All, As you may know, we are working on a case involving the denial of a test-taker's request to take the Bar Exam and MPRE using JAWS and ZoomText. In connection with that matter, 1. Does anyone know anything about an optometrist named David Damari? 2. Can anyone tell me of instances in which other standardized tests have allowed screen reader and/or screen magnification software to be used? 3. Does anyone know of someone who ended up using a reader for the multi-state or the MPRE and has a horror story to share about using a reader? Any help you can offer is appreciated. Thank you! Mehgan Sidhu Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP 120 East Baltimore Street, Suite 1700 Baltimore, Maryland 21202 410-962-1030 x1324 410-385-0869 (fax) ms at browngold.com www.browngold.com Celebrating our 25th Anniversary 1984 - 2009 Please consider the environment before printing this email. Confidentiality Notice This e-mail may contain confidential information that may also be legally privileged and that is intended only for the use of the addressee(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient or an authorized agent of the recipient, please be advised that any dissemination or copying of this e-mail, or taking of any action in reliance on the information contained herein, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify me immediately by use of the reply button, and then delete the e-mail from your system. Thank you! From jsorozco at gmail.com Thu Dec 10 19:46:09 2009 From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco) Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2009 14:46:09 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Help request re MPRE / Bar Exam accommodations matter In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <51C2773D5F66467987C61FA687948165@Rufus> In response to your second question, I just took the LSAT this past weekend and used JAWS on a laptop for the writing section. I used the same arrangement for the GRE two and a half years ago. Joe Orozco "A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the crowd."--Max Lucado -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Mehgan Sidhu Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2009 12:25 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: [blindlaw] Help request re MPRE / Bar Exam accommodations matter Dear All, As you may know, we are working on a case involving the denial of a test-taker's request to take the Bar Exam and MPRE using JAWS and ZoomText. In connection with that matter, 1. Does anyone know anything about an optometrist named David Damari? 2. Can anyone tell me of instances in which other standardized tests have allowed screen reader and/or screen magnification software to be used? 3. Does anyone know of someone who ended up using a reader for the multi-state or the MPRE and has a horror story to share about using a reader? Any help you can offer is appreciated. Thank you! Mehgan Sidhu Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP 120 East Baltimore Street, Suite 1700 Baltimore, Maryland 21202 410-962-1030 x1324 410-385-0869 (fax) ms at browngold.com www.browngold.com Celebrating our 25th Anniversary 1984 - 2009 Please consider the environment before printing this email. Confidentiality Notice This e-mail may contain confidential information that may also be legally privileged and that is intended only for the use of the addressee(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient or an authorized agent of the recipient, please be advised that any dissemination or copying of this e-mail, or taking of any action in reliance on the information contained herein, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify me immediately by use of the reply button, and then delete the e-mail from your system. Thank you! _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jsoroz co%40gmail.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4677 (20091210) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4677 (20091210) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From slabarre at labarrelaw.com Thu Dec 10 23:03:57 2009 From: slabarre at labarrelaw.com (Scott C. LaBarre) Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2009 16:03:57 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] this is a test, please disregard Message-ID: <548BD93673FC40319142AFD042D17303@labarre> Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. LaBarre Law Offices P.C. 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 Denver, Colorado 80222 303 504-5979 (voice) 303 757-3640 (fax) slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) www.labarrelaw.com (website) CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. From jimi-law at dc.rr.com Fri Dec 11 15:36:57 2009 From: jimi-law at dc.rr.com (James Weisberg) Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2009 07:36:57 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] Help request re MPRE / Bar Exam accommodations matter In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8EB46D1E7016481690749C4631C67464@Blind> Got the ultimate "Reader" horror story for you if you wish to give me a call. James W. Weisberg, Esq. Law Office of J. William Weisberg 299 South Patencio Road, Ste. 3 Palm Springs, CA 92262 V: 916-425-1010 F: 916-374-7667 E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com Admitted in Wisconsin Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil Rights Advocacy for Children with Diabetes This message contains information which may be confidential and privileged. Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from your system. This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client relationship nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William Weisberg expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in accordance with this disclaimer. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Mehgan Sidhu Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2009 9:25 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: [blindlaw] Help request re MPRE / Bar Exam accommodations matter Dear All, As you may know, we are working on a case involving the denial of a test-taker's request to take the Bar Exam and MPRE using JAWS and ZoomText. In connection with that matter, 1. Does anyone know anything about an optometrist named David Damari? 2. Can anyone tell me of instances in which other standardized tests have allowed screen reader and/or screen magnification software to be used? 3. Does anyone know of someone who ended up using a reader for the multi-state or the MPRE and has a horror story to share about using a reader? Any help you can offer is appreciated. Thank you! Mehgan Sidhu Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP 120 East Baltimore Street, Suite 1700 Baltimore, Maryland 21202 410-962-1030 x1324 410-385-0869 (fax) ms at browngold.com www.browngold.com Celebrating our 25th Anniversary 1984 - 2009 Please consider the environment before printing this email. Confidentiality Notice This e-mail may contain confidential information that may also be legally privileged and that is intended only for the use of the addressee(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient or an authorized agent of the recipient, please be advised that any dissemination or copying of this e-mail, or taking of any action in reliance on the information contained herein, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify me immediately by use of the reply button, and then delete the e-mail from your system. Thank you! _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jimi-law%40dc.rr.c om __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4674 (20091209) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4674 (20091209) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com From benkarpilow at gmail.com Fri Dec 11 18:46:07 2009 From: benkarpilow at gmail.com (Ben Karpilow) Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2009 10:46:07 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] Westlaw or Lexis References: Message-ID: Chuck, The following link is to a page that has all the judicial council forms, which appear accessible insofar as a jaws user can read/ fill them out. It's also free. Hope this helps. http://www.essentialpublishers.com/ ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 2:42 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Westlaw or Lexis >I have used both. Both are accessible with screen reading software. My >pereference is Westlaw mainly because I prefer their style of organization >and it was what I was first trained with back in the days of research using >books and live readers. > Chuck > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ben Karpilow" > To: "blind law mailing list" > Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 7:50 AM > Subject: [blindlaw] Westlaw or Lexis > > >> Fellow Listers, do you preferWestlaw or Lexis, and why? (I'm on the verge >> of beginning my legal career and would like your collective insight). >> Thanks, Ben >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/benkarpilow%40gmail.com From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Fri Dec 11 19:02:32 2009 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2009 11:02:32 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] Westlaw or Lexis In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Ben, Yes, this is the company that I told you about. I am planning to order the software after the first of the year. Where are you in California and what are you planning to do now that you passed the bar? Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal 1237 P Street Fresno, ca 93721 559-266-9237 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ben Karpilow" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 10:46 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Westlaw or Lexis > Chuck, The following link is to a page that has all the judicial council > forms, which appear accessible insofar as a jaws user can read/ fill them > out. It's also free. Hope this helps. > > http://www.essentialpublishers.com/ > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 2:42 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Westlaw or Lexis > > >>I have used both. Both are accessible with screen reading software. My >>pereference is Westlaw mainly because I prefer their style of organization >>and it was what I was first trained with back in the days of research >>using books and live readers. >> Chuck >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Ben Karpilow" >> To: "blind law mailing list" >> Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 7:50 AM >> Subject: [blindlaw] Westlaw or Lexis >> >> >>> Fellow Listers, do you preferWestlaw or Lexis, and why? (I'm on the >>> verge of beginning my legal career and would like your collective >>> insight). Thanks, Ben >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/benkarpilow%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net From benkarpilow at gmail.com Fri Dec 11 19:25:59 2009 From: benkarpilow at gmail.com (Ben Karpilow) Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2009 11:25:59 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] Westlaw or Lexis References: Message-ID: <7176AEDEA4914DB39A2341AB87D0835D@benbpgavlhgwwr> Chuck, i'm in Santa Rosa. I'm trying to get some contract work and am also considering going off on my own in the event nothing pans out for me. Call me sometime so we can talk over the phone. My # is 707- 548-8555. Regards, Ben ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 11:02 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Westlaw or Lexis > Hi Ben, > Yes, this is the company that I told you about. I am planning to order the > software after the first of the year. Where are you in California and what > are you planning to do now that you passed the bar? > Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal > 1237 P Street > Fresno, ca 93721 > 559-266-9237 > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ben Karpilow" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 10:46 AM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Westlaw or Lexis > > >> Chuck, The following link is to a page that has all the judicial council >> forms, which appear accessible insofar as a jaws user can read/ fill them >> out. It's also free. Hope this helps. >> >> http://www.essentialpublishers.com/ >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 2:42 PM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Westlaw or Lexis >> >> >>>I have used both. Both are accessible with screen reading software. My >>>pereference is Westlaw mainly because I prefer their style of >>>organization and it was what I was first trained with back in the days of >>>research using books and live readers. >>> Chuck >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Ben Karpilow" >>> To: "blind law mailing list" >>> Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 7:50 AM >>> Subject: [blindlaw] Westlaw or Lexis >>> >>> >>>> Fellow Listers, do you preferWestlaw or Lexis, and why? (I'm on the >>>> verge of beginning my legal career and would like your collective >>>> insight). Thanks, Ben >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/benkarpilow%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/benkarpilow%40gmail.com From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Sat Dec 12 03:44:16 2009 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2009 19:44:16 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] Westlaw or Lexis In-Reply-To: <7176AEDEA4914DB39A2341AB87D0835D@benbpgavlhgwwr> References: <7176AEDEA4914DB39A2341AB87D0835D@benbpgavlhgwwr> Message-ID: <050ACDC4FA3A4D3FA4019ACD944EFCE4@spike> I will give you a call. I meant to post this individually but sent it to the whole list. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ben Karpilow" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 11:25 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Westlaw or Lexis > Chuck, i'm in Santa Rosa. I'm trying to get some contract work and am also > considering going off on my own in the event nothing pans out for me. Call > me sometime so we can talk over the phone. My # is 707- 548-8555. Regards, > Ben > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 11:02 AM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Westlaw or Lexis > > >> Hi Ben, >> Yes, this is the company that I told you about. I am planning to order >> the software after the first of the year. Where are you in California and >> what are you planning to do now that you passed the bar? >> Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal >> 1237 P Street >> Fresno, ca 93721 >> 559-266-9237 >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Ben Karpilow" >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 10:46 AM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Westlaw or Lexis >> >> >>> Chuck, The following link is to a page that has all the judicial >>> council forms, which appear accessible insofar as a jaws user can read/ >>> fill them out. It's also free. Hope this helps. >>> >>> http://www.essentialpublishers.com/ >>> >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: >>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>> Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 2:42 PM >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Westlaw or Lexis >>> >>> >>>>I have used both. Both are accessible with screen reading software. My >>>>pereference is Westlaw mainly because I prefer their style of >>>>organization and it was what I was first trained with back in the days >>>>of research using books and live readers. >>>> Chuck >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Ben Karpilow" >>>> To: "blind law mailing list" >>>> Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 7:50 AM >>>> Subject: [blindlaw] Westlaw or Lexis >>>> >>>> >>>>> Fellow Listers, do you preferWestlaw or Lexis, and why? (I'm on the >>>>> verge of beginning my legal career and would like your collective >>>>> insight). Thanks, Ben >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> blindlaw: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/benkarpilow%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/benkarpilow%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net From cathrynisfinally at verizon.net Sat Dec 12 17:44:05 2009 From: cathrynisfinally at verizon.net (Cathryn Bonnette) Date: Sat, 12 Dec 2009 12:44:05 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Help request re MPRE / Bar Exam accommodations matter In-Reply-To: <8EB46D1E7016481690749C4631C67464@Blind> References: <8EB46D1E7016481690749C4631C67464@Blind> Message-ID: <99E6C1DCA64246FF99E28EE9382101D8@14bd0130080a469> I failed the MPRE the first time in CA because the reader could not hear the difference between "b" and "d", and I didn't realize that until after the test! Cathryn Bonnette -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of James Weisberg Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 10:37 AM To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Help request re MPRE / Bar Exam accommodations matter Got the ultimate "Reader" horror story for you if you wish to give me a call. James W. Weisberg, Esq. Law Office of J. William Weisberg 299 South Patencio Road, Ste. 3 Palm Springs, CA 92262 V: 916-425-1010 F: 916-374-7667 E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com Admitted in Wisconsin Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil Rights Advocacy for Children with Diabetes This message contains information which may be confidential and privileged. Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from your system. This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client relationship nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William Weisberg expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in accordance with this disclaimer. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Mehgan Sidhu Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2009 9:25 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: [blindlaw] Help request re MPRE / Bar Exam accommodations matter Dear All, As you may know, we are working on a case involving the denial of a test-taker's request to take the Bar Exam and MPRE using JAWS and ZoomText. In connection with that matter, 1. Does anyone know anything about an optometrist named David Damari? 2. Can anyone tell me of instances in which other standardized tests have allowed screen reader and/or screen magnification software to be used? 3. Does anyone know of someone who ended up using a reader for the multi-state or the MPRE and has a horror story to share about using a reader? Any help you can offer is appreciated. Thank you! Mehgan Sidhu Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP 120 East Baltimore Street, Suite 1700 Baltimore, Maryland 21202 410-962-1030 x1324 410-385-0869 (fax) ms at browngold.com www.browngold.com Celebrating our 25th Anniversary 1984 - 2009 Please consider the environment before printing this email. Confidentiality Notice This e-mail may contain confidential information that may also be legally privileged and that is intended only for the use of the addressee(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient or an authorized agent of the recipient, please be advised that any dissemination or copying of this e-mail, or taking of any action in reliance on the information contained herein, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify me immediately by use of the reply button, and then delete the e-mail from your system. Thank you! _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jimi-law%40dc.rr.c om __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4674 (20091209) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4674 (20091209) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cathrynisfinally%4 0verizon.net No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.427 / Virus Database: 270.14.104/2560 - Release Date: 12/12/09 07:38:00 From rwayne1 at nyc.rr.com Sat Dec 12 19:08:29 2009 From: rwayne1 at nyc.rr.com (ray wayne) Date: Sat, 12 Dec 2009 14:08:29 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Help request re MPRE / Bar Exam accommodations matter In-Reply-To: <99E6C1DCA64246FF99E28EE9382101D8@14bd0130080a469> References: <8EB46D1E7016481690749C4631C67464@Blind> <99E6C1DCA64246FF99E28EE9382101D8@14bd0130080a469> Message-ID: <20091212190829.rwayne1@nyc.rr.com> Wow! Next time try military code: alpha, bravo, charlie, delta, echo, etc. Ray ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cathryn Bonnette" To: "'Ationfbnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Date: Saturday, Dec 12, 2009 13:14:51 Subject: Re: [bllaw] Help request re MPRE / Bar Exam accommodations matter > > > I failed the MPRE the first time in CA because the reader could not hear the > difference between b and d, and I didn't realize that until after the > test! > > Cathryn Bonnette > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of James Weisberg > Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 10:37 AM > To: 'Ationfbnet Blind Law Mailing List' > Subject: Re: [bllaw] Help request re MPRE / Bar Exam accommodations > matter > > Got the ultimate "Reader" horror story for you if you wish to give me a > call. > > James W. Weisberg, Esq. > > Law Office of J. William Weisberg > > 299 South Patencio Road, Ste. 3 > > Palm Springs, CA 92262 > > V: 916-425-1010 > > F: 916-374-7667 > > E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com > > Admitted in Wisconsin > > Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil Rights > Advocacy for Children with Diabetes > > This message contains information which may be confidential and privileged. > Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), > you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information > contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, > please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from your > system. > > This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client relationship > nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William Weisberg > expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in > accordance with this disclaimer. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of Mehgan Sidhu > Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2009 9:25 AM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: [bllaw] Help request re MPRE / Bar Exam accommodations matter > > Dear All, > > As you may know, we are working on a case involving the denial of a > test-taker's request to take the Bar Exam and MPRE using JAWS and ZoomText. > In connection with that matter, > > > 1. Does anyone know anything about an optometrist named David Damari? > 2. Can anyone tell me of instances in which other standardized tests have > allowed screen reader and/or screen magnification software to be used? > 3. Does anyone know of someone who ended up using a reader for the > multi-state or the MPRE and has a horror story to share about using a > reader? > > Any help you can offer is appreciated. Thank you! > > Mehgan Sidhu > Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP > 120 East Baltimore Street, Suite 1700 > Baltimore, Maryland 21202 > 410-962-1030 x1324 > 410-385-0869 (fax) > ms at browngold.com > www.browngold.com > > Celebrating our 25th Anniversary 1984 �� 2009 > Please consider the environment before printing this email. > > Confidentiality Notice > > This e-mail may contain confidential information that may also be legally > privileged and that is intended only for the use of the addressee(s) named > above. If you are not the intended recipient or an authorized agent of the > recipient, please be advised that any dissemination or copying of this > e-mail, or taking of any action in reliance on the information contained > herein, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, > please notify me immediately by use of the reply button, and then delete the > e-mail from your system. Thank you! > > _______________________________________________ > bllaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > bllaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jimi-law%40dc.rr.c > om > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature > database 4674 (20091209) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature > database 4674 (20091209) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > bllaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > bllaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cathrynisfinally%4 > 0verizon.net > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG �� www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.427 / Virus Database: 270.14.104/2560 �� Release Date: 12/12/09 > 07:38:00 > > > _______________________________________________ > bllaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for bllaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rwayne1%40nyc.rr.com From rumpole at roadrunner.com Sat Dec 12 21:31:19 2009 From: rumpole at roadrunner.com (Ross Doerr) Date: Sat, 12 Dec 2009 16:31:19 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Westlaw or Lexis References: <7176AEDEA4914DB39A2341AB87D0835D@benbpgavlhgwwr> <050ACDC4FA3A4D3FA4019ACD944EFCE4@spike> Message-ID: <30F2BABC2CA94BF8A6B91179DCC72A05@none8a46117901> Dear listers: I have a slightly off-topic question - this is in regards to Audible.com books - can anyone tell me if the monthly charge for an audible subscription includes the price of books, or if that monthly charge is in addition to the full cost of the book, or if tyhe books you order come at a discounted price because you are a subscriber? The web site isn't really clear on that issue - and before I buy a subscription as a gift, I was wondering if anyone could contact me off-list with some practical information about being an audible.com subscriber. I see that they have a deal going for just over $7 a month -- but I don't know much more than that. My off-list email is: rumpole at roadrunner.com Just curious how others who use it like it. Thank you. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 10:44 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Westlaw or Lexis >I will give you a call. I meant to post this individually but sent it to >the > whole list. > Chuck > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ben Karpilow" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 11:25 AM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Westlaw or Lexis > > >> Chuck, i'm in Santa Rosa. I'm trying to get some contract work and am >> also >> considering going off on my own in the event nothing pans out for me. >> Call >> me sometime so we can talk over the phone. My # is 707- 548-8555. >> Regards, >> Ben >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 11:02 AM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Westlaw or Lexis >> >> >>> Hi Ben, >>> Yes, this is the company that I told you about. I am planning to order >>> the software after the first of the year. Where are you in California >>> and >>> what are you planning to do now that you passed the bar? >>> Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal >>> 1237 P Street >>> Fresno, ca 93721 >>> 559-266-9237 >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Ben Karpilow" >>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>> Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 10:46 AM >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Westlaw or Lexis >>> >>> >>>> Chuck, The following link is to a page that has all the judicial >>>> council forms, which appear accessible insofar as a jaws user can read/ >>>> fill them out. It's also free. Hope this helps. >>>> >>>> http://www.essentialpublishers.com/ >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: >>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>> Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 2:42 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Westlaw or Lexis >>>> >>>> >>>>>I have used both. Both are accessible with screen reading software. My >>>>>pereference is Westlaw mainly because I prefer their style of >>>>>organization and it was what I was first trained with back in the days >>>>>of research using books and live readers. >>>>> Chuck >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Ben Karpilow" >>>>> To: "blind law mailing list" >>>>> Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 7:50 AM >>>>> Subject: [blindlaw] Westlaw or Lexis >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Fellow Listers, do you preferWestlaw or Lexis, and why? (I'm on the >>>>>> verge of beginning my legal career and would like your collective >>>>>> insight). Thanks, Ben >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> blindlaw: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/benkarpilow%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/benkarpilow%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rumpole%40roadrunner.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.427 / Virus Database: 270.14.104/2560 - Release Date: 12/12/09 07:38:00 From angie.matney at gmail.com Sat Dec 12 22:21:29 2009 From: angie.matney at gmail.com (Angie Matney) Date: Sat, 12 Dec 2009 17:21:29 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Help request re MPRE / Bar Exam accommodations matter In-Reply-To: <99E6C1DCA64246FF99E28EE9382101D8@14bd0130080a469> References: <8EB46D1E7016481690749C4631C67464@Blind> <99E6C1DCA64246FF99E28EE9382101D8@14bd0130080a469> Message-ID: <9861FC2C3BD9406486D40CE7E8712F70@arm4rPC> When I went to take the LSAT, my proctor started out by informing me that he was "just a little hard-of-hearing." For a second, I panicked. In the end, I asked him to repeat b and d answers phonetically . I'm really glad he did that, because I wouldn't have gotten the score I did otherwise. I also failed the MPRE the first time. I don't know if it was the proctor or not--I had a lot of other things going on at the time. But I didn't study that much more the second time, and my score increased 41 points. I did not really have confidence in the first proctor. But I don't know if we had some of those "b" and "d" issues or not. I was a little concerned that this person might not have fully blackened in some of the circles. But as I said, there were other issues that weren't related to the proctor. Either way, it's all over now! Angie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cathryn Bonnette" To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Sent: Saturday, December 12, 2009 12:44 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Help request re MPRE / Bar Exam accommodations matter >I failed the MPRE the first time in CA because the reader could not hear >the > difference between "b" and "d", and I didn't realize that until after the > test! > > Cathryn Bonnette > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of James Weisberg > Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 10:37 AM > To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Help request re MPRE / Bar Exam accommodations > matter > > Got the ultimate "Reader" horror story for you if you wish to give me a > call. > > James W. Weisberg, Esq. > > Law Office of J. William Weisberg > > 299 South Patencio Road, Ste. 3 > > Palm Springs, CA 92262 > > V: 916-425-1010 > > F: 916-374-7667 > > E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com > > Admitted in Wisconsin > > Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil Rights > Advocacy for Children with Diabetes > > This message contains information which may be confidential and > privileged. > Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), > you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information > contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, > please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from your > system. > > This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client > relationship > nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William Weisberg > expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in > accordance with this disclaimer. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of Mehgan Sidhu > Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2009 9:25 AM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: [blindlaw] Help request re MPRE / Bar Exam accommodations matter > > Dear All, > > As you may know, we are working on a case involving the denial of a > test-taker's request to take the Bar Exam and MPRE using JAWS and > ZoomText. > In connection with that matter, > > > 1. Does anyone know anything about an optometrist named David Damari? > 2. Can anyone tell me of instances in which other standardized tests have > allowed screen reader and/or screen magnification software to be used? > 3. Does anyone know of someone who ended up using a reader for the > multi-state or the MPRE and has a horror story to share about using a > reader? > > Any help you can offer is appreciated. Thank you! > > Mehgan Sidhu > Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP > 120 East Baltimore Street, Suite 1700 > Baltimore, Maryland 21202 > 410-962-1030 x1324 > 410-385-0869 (fax) > ms at browngold.com > www.browngold.com > > Celebrating our 25th Anniversary 1984 - 2009 > Please consider the environment before printing this email. > > Confidentiality Notice > > This e-mail may contain confidential information that may also be legally > privileged and that is intended only for the use of the addressee(s) named > above. If you are not the intended recipient or an authorized agent of > the > recipient, please be advised that any dissemination or copying of this > e-mail, or taking of any action in reliance on the information contained > herein, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in > error, > please notify me immediately by use of the reply button, and then delete > the > e-mail from your system. Thank you! > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jimi-law%40dc.rr.c > om > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4674 (20091209) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4674 (20091209) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cathrynisfinally%4 > 0verizon.net > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.427 / Virus Database: 270.14.104/2560 - Release Date: > 12/12/09 > 07:38:00 > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie.matney%40gmail.com > From editor.nftb at gmail.com Sat Dec 12 23:06:20 2009 From: editor.nftb at gmail.com (Will May) Date: Sat, 12 Dec 2009 18:06:20 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Westlaw or Lexis In-Reply-To: <30F2BABC2CA94BF8A6B91179DCC72A05@none8a46117901> References: <7176AEDEA4914DB39A2341AB87D0835D@benbpgavlhgwwr> <050ACDC4FA3A4D3FA4019ACD944EFCE4@spike> <30F2BABC2CA94BF8A6B91179DCC72A05@none8a46117901> Message-ID: Hi; All Audible.com gives you is audible access..... they don't send you a printed book that some one else can read..... Audible is Bezos poor effort at reaching the vision impaired; it doesn't really work well..... Cheers, Will Editor at NewspapersForTheBlind.ORG On Sat, Dec 12, 2009 at 4:31 PM, Ross Doerr wrote: > Dear listers: > > I have a slightly off-topic question - this is in regards to Audible.com > books - > can anyone tell me if the monthly charge for an audible  subscription > includes the price of books, or if that monthly charge is in addition to the > full cost of the book, or if tyhe books you order come at a discounted price > because you are a subscriber? > The web site isn't really clear on that issue - and before I buy a > subscription as a gift, I was wondering if anyone could contact me off-list > with some practical information about being an audible.com subscriber. I see > that they have a deal going for just over $7 a month -- but I don't know > much more than that. > My off-list email is: > rumpole at roadrunner.com > Just curious how others who use it like it. > Thank you. > > ----- Original Message ----- From: > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 10:44 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Westlaw or Lexis > > >> I will give you a call. I meant to post this individually but sent it to >> the >> whole list. >> Chuck >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ben Karpilow" >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 11:25 AM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Westlaw or Lexis >> >> >>> Chuck, i'm in Santa Rosa. I'm trying to get some contract work and am >>> also >>> considering going off on my own in the event nothing pans out for me. >>> Call >>> me sometime so we can talk over the phone. My # is 707- 548-8555. >>> Regards, >>> Ben >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: >>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>> Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 11:02 AM >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Westlaw or Lexis >>> >>> >>>> Hi Ben, >>>> Yes, this is the company that I told you about. I am planning to order >>>> the software after the first of the year. Where are you in California >>>> and >>>> what are you planning to do now that you passed the bar? >>>> Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal >>>> 1237 P Street >>>> Fresno, ca 93721 >>>> 559-266-9237 >>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ben Karpilow" >>>> >>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>> Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 10:46 AM >>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Westlaw or Lexis >>>> >>>> >>>>> Chuck,  The following link is to a page that has all the judicial >>>>> council forms, which appear accessible insofar as a jaws user can read/ >>>>> fill them out. It's also free. Hope this helps. >>>>> >>>>> http://www.essentialpublishers.com/ >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: >>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>> Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 2:42 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Westlaw or Lexis >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> I have used both. Both are accessible with screen reading software. My >>>>>> pereference is Westlaw mainly because I prefer their style of >>>>>> organization and it was what I was first trained with back in the days >>>>>> of research using books and live readers. >>>>>> Chuck >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ben Karpilow" >>>>>> >>>>>> To: "blind law mailing list" >>>>>> Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 7:50 AM >>>>>> Subject: [blindlaw] Westlaw or Lexis >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> Fellow Listers, do you preferWestlaw or Lexis, and why? (I'm on the >>>>>>> verge of beginning my legal career and would like your collective >>>>>>> insight). Thanks, Ben >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/benkarpilow%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> blindlaw: >>>>> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/benkarpilow%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rumpole%40roadrunner.com > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.427 / Virus Database: 270.14.104/2560 - Release Date: 12/12/09 > 07:38:00 > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/editor.nftb%40gmail.com > From slabarre at labarrelaw.com Sat Dec 12 23:30:04 2009 From: slabarre at labarrelaw.com (Scott C. LaBarre) Date: Sat, 12 Dec 2009 16:30:04 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Westlaw or Lexis References: <7176AEDEA4914DB39A2341AB87D0835D@benbpgavlhgwwr><050ACDC4FA3A4D3FA4019ACD944EFCE4@spike> <30F2BABC2CA94BF8A6B91179DCC72A05@none8a46117901> Message-ID: The monthly charge gives you a certain number of credits each month depending upon the plan. I had the gold plan which gave you one credit a month. So, for $14.95 a month or whatever it was, I could get one book a month. If you don't use the credit every month, they build up. The monthly fee is less than the cost of most books etc. Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. LaBarre Law Offices P.C. 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 Denver, Colorado 80222 303 504-5979 (voice) 303 757-3640 (fax) slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) www.labarrelaw.com (website) CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ross Doerr" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Saturday, December 12, 2009 2:31 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Westlaw or Lexis > Dear listers: > > I have a slightly off-topic question - this is in regards to Audible.com > books - > can anyone tell me if the monthly charge for an audible subscription > includes the price of books, or if that monthly charge is in addition to > the full cost of the book, or if tyhe books you order come at a discounted > price because you are a subscriber? > The web site isn't really clear on that issue - and before I buy a > subscription as a gift, I was wondering if anyone could contact me > off-list with some practical information about being an audible.com > subscriber. I see that they have a deal going for just over $7 a month -- > but I don't know much more than that. > My off-list email is: > rumpole at roadrunner.com > Just curious how others who use it like it. > Thank you. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 10:44 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Westlaw or Lexis > > >>I will give you a call. I meant to post this individually but sent it to >>the >> whole list. >> Chuck >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Ben Karpilow" >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 11:25 AM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Westlaw or Lexis >> >> >>> Chuck, i'm in Santa Rosa. I'm trying to get some contract work and am >>> also >>> considering going off on my own in the event nothing pans out for me. >>> Call >>> me sometime so we can talk over the phone. My # is 707- 548-8555. >>> Regards, >>> Ben >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: >>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>> Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 11:02 AM >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Westlaw or Lexis >>> >>> >>>> Hi Ben, >>>> Yes, this is the company that I told you about. I am planning to order >>>> the software after the first of the year. Where are you in California >>>> and >>>> what are you planning to do now that you passed the bar? >>>> Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal >>>> 1237 P Street >>>> Fresno, ca 93721 >>>> 559-266-9237 >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Ben Karpilow" >>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>> Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 10:46 AM >>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Westlaw or Lexis >>>> >>>> >>>>> Chuck, The following link is to a page that has all the judicial >>>>> council forms, which appear accessible insofar as a jaws user can >>>>> read/ >>>>> fill them out. It's also free. Hope this helps. >>>>> >>>>> http://www.essentialpublishers.com/ >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: >>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>> Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 2:42 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Westlaw or Lexis >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>I have used both. Both are accessible with screen reading software. My >>>>>>pereference is Westlaw mainly because I prefer their style of >>>>>>organization and it was what I was first trained with back in the days >>>>>>of research using books and live readers. >>>>>> Chuck >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: "Ben Karpilow" >>>>>> To: "blind law mailing list" >>>>>> Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 7:50 AM >>>>>> Subject: [blindlaw] Westlaw or Lexis >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> Fellow Listers, do you preferWestlaw or Lexis, and why? (I'm on the >>>>>>> verge of beginning my legal career and would like your collective >>>>>>> insight). Thanks, Ben >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/benkarpilow%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> blindlaw: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/benkarpilow%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rumpole%40roadrunner.com > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.427 / Virus Database: 270.14.104/2560 - Release Date: > 12/12/09 07:38:00 > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/slabarre%40labarrelaw.com > From angie.matney at gmail.com Sat Dec 12 23:57:13 2009 From: angie.matney at gmail.com (Angie Matney) Date: Sat, 12 Dec 2009 18:57:13 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Audible.com was Re: Westlaw or Lexis In-Reply-To: References: <7176AEDEA4914DB39A2341AB87D0835D@benbpgavlhgwwr><050ACDC4FA3A4D3FA4019ACD944EFCE4@spike><30F2BABC2CA94BF8A6B91179DCC72A05@none8a46117901> Message-ID: <35637859E3D04FAF94BAD2C80391D198@arm4rPC> If this conversation is to take place on this list, please change the subject header. Thanks, Angie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Will May" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Saturday, December 12, 2009 6:06 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Westlaw or Lexis Hi; All Audible.com gives you is audible access..... they don't send you a printed book that some one else can read..... Audible is Bezos poor effort at reaching the vision impaired; it doesn't really work well..... Cheers, Will Editor at NewspapersForTheBlind.ORG On Sat, Dec 12, 2009 at 4:31 PM, Ross Doerr wrote: > Dear listers: > > I have a slightly off-topic question - this is in regards to Audible.com > books - > can anyone tell me if the monthly charge for an audible subscription > includes the price of books, or if that monthly charge is in addition to > the > full cost of the book, or if tyhe books you order come at a discounted > price > because you are a subscriber? > The web site isn't really clear on that issue - and before I buy a > subscription as a gift, I was wondering if anyone could contact me > off-list > with some practical information about being an audible.com subscriber. I > see > that they have a deal going for just over $7 a month -- but I don't know > much more than that. > My off-list email is: > rumpole at roadrunner.com > Just curious how others who use it like it. > Thank you. > > ----- Original Message ----- From: > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 10:44 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Westlaw or Lexis > > >> I will give you a call. I meant to post this individually but sent it to >> the >> whole list. >> Chuck >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ben Karpilow" >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 11:25 AM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Westlaw or Lexis >> >> >>> Chuck, i'm in Santa Rosa. I'm trying to get some contract work and am >>> also >>> considering going off on my own in the event nothing pans out for me. >>> Call >>> me sometime so we can talk over the phone. My # is 707- 548-8555. >>> Regards, >>> Ben >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: >>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>> Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 11:02 AM >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Westlaw or Lexis >>> >>> >>>> Hi Ben, >>>> Yes, this is the company that I told you about. I am planning to order >>>> the software after the first of the year. Where are you in California >>>> and >>>> what are you planning to do now that you passed the bar? >>>> Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal >>>> 1237 P Street >>>> Fresno, ca 93721 >>>> 559-266-9237 >>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ben Karpilow" >>>> >>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>> Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 10:46 AM >>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Westlaw or Lexis >>>> >>>> >>>>> Chuck, The following link is to a page that has all the judicial >>>>> council forms, which appear accessible insofar as a jaws user can >>>>> read/ >>>>> fill them out. It's also free. Hope this helps. >>>>> >>>>> http://www.essentialpublishers.com/ >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: >>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>> Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 2:42 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Westlaw or Lexis >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> I have used both. Both are accessible with screen reading software. >>>>>> My >>>>>> pereference is Westlaw mainly because I prefer their style of >>>>>> organization and it was what I was first trained with back in the >>>>>> days >>>>>> of research using books and live readers. >>>>>> Chuck >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ben Karpilow" >>>>>> >>>>>> To: "blind law mailing list" >>>>>> Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 7:50 AM >>>>>> Subject: [blindlaw] Westlaw or Lexis >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> Fellow Listers, do you preferWestlaw or Lexis, and why? (I'm on the >>>>>>> verge of beginning my legal career and would like your collective >>>>>>> insight). Thanks, Ben >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/benkarpilow%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> blindlaw: >>>>> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/benkarpilow%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rumpole%40roadrunner.com > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.427 / Virus Database: 270.14.104/2560 - Release Date: > 12/12/09 > 07:38:00 > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/editor.nftb%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie.matney%40gmail.com From cathrynisfinally at verizon.net Sun Dec 13 21:34:41 2009 From: cathrynisfinally at verizon.net (Cathryn Bonnette) Date: Sun, 13 Dec 2009 16:34:41 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Help request re MPRE / Bar Exam accommodations matter In-Reply-To: <20091212190829.rwayne1@nyc.rr.com> References: <8EB46D1E7016481690749C4631C67464@Blind> <99E6C1DCA64246FF99E28EE9382101D8@14bd0130080a469> <20091212190829.rwayne1@nyc.rr.com> Message-ID: Done! I just didn't have that military mindset initially! -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of ray wayne Sent: Saturday, December 12, 2009 2:08 PM To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Help request re MPRE / Bar Exam accommodations matter Wow! Next time try military code: alpha, bravo, charlie, delta, echo, etc. Ray ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cathryn Bonnette" To: "'Ationfbnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Date: Saturday, Dec 12, 2009 13:14:51 Subject: Re: [bllaw] Help request re MPRE / Bar Exam accommodations matter > > > I failed the MPRE the first time in CA because the reader could not hear the > difference between b and d, and I didn't realize that until after the > test! > > Cathryn Bonnette > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of James Weisberg > Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 10:37 AM > To: 'Ationfbnet Blind Law Mailing List' > Subject: Re: [bllaw] Help request re MPRE / Bar Exam accommodations > matter > > Got the ultimate "Reader" horror story for you if you wish to give me a > call. > > James W. Weisberg, Esq. > > Law Office of J. William Weisberg > > 299 South Patencio Road, Ste. 3 > > Palm Springs, CA 92262 > > V: 916-425-1010 > > F: 916-374-7667 > > E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com > > Admitted in Wisconsin > > Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil Rights > Advocacy for Children with Diabetes > > This message contains information which may be confidential and privileged. > Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), > you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information > contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, > please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from your > system. > > This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client relationship > nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William Weisberg > expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in > accordance with this disclaimer. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of Mehgan Sidhu > Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2009 9:25 AM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: [bllaw] Help request re MPRE / Bar Exam accommodations matter > > Dear All, > > As you may know, we are working on a case involving the denial of a > test-taker's request to take the Bar Exam and MPRE using JAWS and ZoomText. > In connection with that matter, > > > 1. Does anyone know anything about an optometrist named David Damari? > 2. Can anyone tell me of instances in which other standardized tests have > allowed screen reader and/or screen magnification software to be used? > 3. Does anyone know of someone who ended up using a reader for the > multi-state or the MPRE and has a horror story to share about using a > reader? > > Any help you can offer is appreciated. Thank you! > > Mehgan Sidhu > Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP > 120 East Baltimore Street, Suite 1700 > Baltimore, Maryland 21202 > 410-962-1030 x1324 > 410-385-0869 (fax) > ms at browngold.com > www.browngold.com > > Celebrating our 25th Anniversary 1984  2009 > Please consider the environment before printing this email. > > Confidentiality Notice > > This e-mail may contain confidential information that may also be legally > privileged and that is intended only for the use of the addressee(s) named > above. If you are not the intended recipient or an authorized agent of the > recipient, please be advised that any dissemination or copying of this > e-mail, or taking of any action in reliance on the information contained > herein, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, > please notify me immediately by use of the reply button, and then delete the > e-mail from your system. Thank you! > > _______________________________________________ > bllaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > bllaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jimi-law%40dc.rr.c > om > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature > database 4674 (20091209) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature > database 4674 (20091209) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > bllaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > bllaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cathrynisfinally%4 > 0verizon.net > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG  www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.427 / Virus Database: 270.14.104/2560  Release Date: 12/12/09 > 07:38:00 > > > _______________________________________________ > bllaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for bllaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rwayne1%40nyc.rr.c om No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.427 / Virus Database: 270.14.104/2560 - Release Date: 12/12/09 07:38:00 From william.odonnell1 at yahoo.com Mon Dec 14 06:48:16 2009 From: william.odonnell1 at yahoo.com (William ODonnell) Date: Sun, 13 Dec 2009 22:48:16 -0800 (PST) Subject: [blindlaw] T-mobile Message-ID: <59364.26897.qm@web30901.mail.mud.yahoo.com> This email is being sent on behalf of William O’Donnell in care of Yvetta Scott, The below post is lengthy; however, it is in regard to T-Mobile and some customer service issues that she is having. I have been a t-mobile customer since 2005. I am currently locked into a contract until 2011. My issue is the inaccessibility of both t-mobiles products and the insensitivity toward my visual impairment by the representatives from t-mobile. I prefer a product that has both a screen-reader and a screen magnification program. However, screen magnification (ability to increase font to at least 14 PT) is absolutely necessary for me to use my phone affectively. I use phones that have complete data functionality as this is my main source of internet use especially email exchange. Over the years, I have had phones such as the dash, Samsung slider, and most recently, a blackberry 8320. These phones that I have had provided the ability to increase the font to a suitable size; however, I ran in to many technical difficulties. These difficulties ranged from frequent system failures with the phones, as well as the phones rebooting themselves during calls or other important activities. My problem with the screen magnification capabilities is as follows. My newest blackberry 9700 does not save the font changes to be applied on all the phones functions. In addition, when I am on the internet, and try to use the zoom-in function feature, the words become jumbled and unreadable. I proseaded to obtain a phone that met my needs. This is where the problems began with both the custimor service representatives from T-mobile as well as the account specialty department. Over the past few months, I have had many conversations in an attempt at finding an accessible phone for my needs. Many times, I have been misinformed about t-mobiles products wich turned out to be inaccessible. An example of this was the G1 and the My touch. In a finall attempt at finding an accessible phone, I visited the T-mobile store located at 735 6TH Avenue in New York City on Friday, December 11, 2009 at 4:00PM. The in-store representative was understanding of my needs and spent an hour trying to find a phone for me. In his attempts, He contacted the custimor care call center for some sudgestions. After a few moments, a request was given to the representative for me to speek with the custimor care agent. Although I can not recollect the agents name, I do recall him saying that “as the technology becomes newer, they are taking out the feature which enables custimors to increase the font size. The call concluded with me realizing that I must cancel my service with this company. The in-store representative then showed me his personal HTC Touch Pro 2 which has the ability to increase the font size; however, the font can only be increased to an approximate size of 10PT. I have done some research and found that AT&T is able to successfully meet my needs. I am ready to cancel my contract with T-mobile As a result of T-mobile’s inability to provide an accessible phone for me. This evening, I contacted T-Mobile to discuss canceling my contract. Once again, the representative tried to offer me several phones such as the G1 and My touch. In addition, she informed me that “by law, T-mobile offers phones for the hearing impared and the blind; however, these are simple phones that do not support data plans.” She proseaded to tell me that most of there visually impared custimors “don’t use data plans.” She told me that I would have to pay a cancellation fee of $200.00. I asked to speek to a supervizer about this since I feel that I should not be subjected to pay this fee. She then told me that I should contact there legal department at the following address. T-mobile wireless: Legal department 12920 South East 38TH Street Bellevue Washington 98006-1350 I would appreciate any help in this matter as I feel I should not be penalized for canceling a service that I can not use. I can be reached via email and telephone at the following. Email: yvtscott at gmail.com and (917)407-5666. Thank you in advance, Yvetta Scott From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Mon Dec 14 08:06:29 2009 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2009 00:06:29 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] T-mobile In-Reply-To: <59364.26897.qm@web30901.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <59364.26897.qm@web30901.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5558C609862F4E8AB6B5E6865834315F@spike> If NFB doesn't get involved with this there is a consumer organization that advocates regarding issues of cell phone contracts called mywireless.org. Their contact information is as follows: I don't know that they would become individual litigation of this matter but they may be interested. Contact MyWireless.org® Mailing Address MyWireless.org www.mywireless.org 1400 16th Street, NW, Suite 600 Washington, D.C. 20036 Phone and Email 202-736-3889 direct 1-888-MYWLESS toll-free 202-736-3688 fax info at mywireless.org Press Inquiries Brian Johnston Director of Communications & Federal Advocacy 202-736-2980 desk 202-431-4866 cell press at mywireless.org Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal 1237 P Street Fresno ca 93721 559-266-9237 ----- Original Message ----- From: "William ODonnell" To: Sent: Sunday, December 13, 2009 10:48 PM Subject: [blindlaw] T-mobile > This email is being sent on behalf of William O’Donnell in care of Yvetta > Scott, The below post is lengthy; however, it is in regard to T-Mobile > and some customer service issues that she is having. > I have been a t-mobile customer since 2005. I am currently locked into a > contract until 2011. My issue is the inaccessibility of both t-mobiles > products and the insensitivity toward my visual impairment by the > representatives from t-mobile. > I prefer a product that has both a screen-reader and a screen > magnification program. However, screen magnification (ability to increase > font to at least 14 PT) is absolutely necessary for me to use my phone > affectively. > I use phones that have complete data functionality as this is my main > source of internet use especially email exchange. Over the years, I have > had phones such as the dash, Samsung slider, and most recently, a > blackberry 8320. These phones that I have had provided the ability to > increase the font to a suitable size; however, I ran in to many technical > difficulties. These difficulties ranged from frequent system failures > with the phones, as well as the phones rebooting themselves during calls > or other important activities. > My problem with the screen magnification capabilities is as follows. My > newest blackberry 9700 does not save the font changes to be applied on all > the phones functions. In addition, when I am on the internet, and try to > use the zoom-in function feature, the words become jumbled and unreadable. > I proseaded to obtain a phone that met my needs. This is where the > problems began with both the custimor service representatives from > T-mobile as well as the account specialty department. Over the past few > months, I have had many conversations in an attempt at finding an > accessible phone for my needs. Many times, I have been misinformed about > t-mobiles products wich turned out to be inaccessible. An example of this > was the G1 and the My touch. In a finall attempt at finding an accessible > phone, I visited the T-mobile store located at 735 6TH Avenue in New York > City on Friday, December 11, 2009 at 4:00PM. The in-store representative > was understanding of my > needs and spent an hour trying to find a phone for me. In his attempts, > He contacted the custimor care call center for some sudgestions. After a > few moments, a request was given to the representative for me to speek > with the custimor care agent. Although I can not recollect the agents > name, I do recall him saying that “as the technology becomes newer, they > are taking out the feature which enables custimors to increase the font > size. The call concluded with me realizing that I must cancel my service > with this company. The in-store representative then showed me his > personal HTC Touch Pro 2 which has the ability to increase the font size; > however, the font can only be increased to an approximate size of 10PT. > I have done some research and found that AT&T is able to successfully meet > my needs. I am ready to cancel my contract with T-mobile As a result of > T-mobile’s inability to provide an accessible phone for me. This evening, > I contacted T-Mobile to discuss canceling my contract. Once again, the > representative tried to offer me several phones such as the G1 and My > touch. In addition, she informed me that “by law, T-mobile offers phones > for the hearing impared and the blind; however, these are simple phones > that do not support data plans.” She proseaded to tell me that most of > there visually impared custimors “don’t use data plans.” She told me that > I would have to pay a cancellation fee of $200.00. I asked to speek to a > supervizer about this since I feel that I should not be subjected to pay > this fee. She then told me that I should contact there legal department > at the following address. T-mobile wireless: Legal department 12920 South > East 38TH Street Bellevue Washington 98006-1350 > I would appreciate any help in this matter as I feel I should not be > penalized for canceling a service that I can not use. I can be reached > via email and telephone at the following. Email: yvtscott at gmail.com and > (917)407-5666. Thank you in advance, > Yvetta Scott > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net > From william.odonnell1 at yahoo.com Mon Dec 14 08:19:29 2009 From: william.odonnell1 at yahoo.com (William ODonnell) Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2009 00:19:29 -0800 (PST) Subject: [blindlaw] needed to re-post. Message-ID: <405365.81793.qm@web30907.mail.mud.yahoo.com> This email is being sent on behalf of William O’Donnell in care of Yvetta Scott, The below post is lengthy; however, it is in regard to T-Mobile and some customer service issues that she is having. I have been a t-mobile customer since 2005. I am currently locked into a contract until 2011. My issue is the inaccessibility of both t-mobiles products and the insensitivity toward my visual impairment by the representatives from t-mobile. I prefer a product that has both a screen-reader and a screen magnification program. However, screen magnification (ability to increase font to at least 14 PT) is absolutely necessary for me to use my phone affectively. I use phones that have complete data functionality as this is my main source of internet use especially email exchange. Over the years, I have had phones such as the dash, Samsung slider, and most recently, a blackberry 8320. These phones that I have had provided the ability to increase the font to a suitable size; however, I ran in to many technical difficulties. These difficulties ranged from frequent system failures with the phones, as well as the phones rebooting themselves during calls or other important activities. My problem with the screen magnification capabilities is as follows. My newest blackberry 9700 does not save the font changes to be applied on all the phones functions. In addition, when I am on the internet, and try to use the zoom-in function feature, the words become jumbled and unreadable. I proceeded to obtain a phone that met my needs. This is where the problems began with both the customer service representatives from T-mobile as well as the account specialty department. Over the past few months, I have had many conversations in an attempt at finding an accessible phone for my needs. Many times, I have been misinformed about t-mobiles products which turned out to be inaccessible. An example of this was the G1 and the touch. In a final attempt at finding an accessible phone, I visited the T-mobile store located at 735 6TH Avenue in New York City on Friday, December 11, 2009 at 4:00PM. The in-store representative was understanding of my needs and spent an hour trying to find a phone for me. In his attempts, He contacted the customer care call center for some suggestions. After a few moments, a request was given to the representative for me to speak with the customer care agent. Although I can not recollect the agent’s name, I do recall him saying that “as the technology becomes newer, they are taking out the feature which enables customers to increase the font size. The call concluded with me realizing that I must cancel my service with this company. The in-store representative then showed me his personal HTC Touch Pro 2 which has the ability to increase the font size; however, the font can only be increased to an approximate size of 10PT. I have done some research and found that AT&T is able to successfully meet my needs. I am ready to cancel my contract with T-mobile As a result of T-mobile’s inability to provide an accessible phone for me. This evening, I contacted T-Mobile to discuss canceling my contract. Once again, the representative tried to offer me several phones such as the G1 and My touch. In addition, she informed me that “by law, T-mobile offers phones for the hearing impaired and the blind; however, these are simple phones that do not support data plans.” She proceeded to tell me that most of their visually impaired customers “don’t use data plans.” She told me that I would have to pay a cancellation fee of $200.00. I asked to speak to a supervisor about this since I feel that I should not be subjected to pay this fee. She then told me that I should contact their legal department at the following address. T-mobile wireless: Legal department 12920 South East 38TH Street Bellevue Washington 98006-1350 I would appreciate any help in this matter as I feel I should not be penalized for canceling a service that I can not use. I can be reached via email and help in this matter as I feel I should not be penalized for canceling a service that I can not use. I can be reached via email and telephone at the following. My contact email is yvtscott at gmail.com and my phone number is (917)407-5666. Thank you in advance, Yvetta Scott From rthomas at rjtlawfirm.com Mon Dec 14 14:23:22 2009 From: rthomas at rjtlawfirm.com (Russell J. Thomas, Jr.) Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2009 06:23:22 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] needed to re-post. In-Reply-To: <405365.81793.qm@web30907.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <405365.81793.qm@web30907.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1C68F39873B84CE1BA07E309DB39C9E2@russ> I attended a seminar last summer concerning cell phone accessibility for the blind in San Francisco. I believe it was arranged by the San Francisco Lighthouse for the Blind. The major companies, including Tmobile, had representatives present, each of whom stressed theire awareness of the needs of blind customers. Try to find out from someone in TMobile the name of the person who is responsible for these issues. Dealing with local store people on these issues is a waste of time. None of them have any real product knowledge and are absolutely clueless when it comes to our needs. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of William ODonnell Sent: Monday, December 14, 2009 12:19 AM To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org Subject: [blindlaw] needed to re-post. This email is being sent on behalf of William O'Donnell in care of Yvetta Scott, The below post is lengthy; however, it is in regard to T-Mobile and some customer service issues that she is having. I have been a t-mobile customer since 2005. I am currently locked into a contract until 2011. My issue is the inaccessibility of both t-mobiles products and the insensitivity toward my visual impairment by the representatives from t-mobile. I prefer a product that has both a screen-reader and a screen magnification program. However, screen magnification (ability to increase font to at least 14 PT) is absolutely necessary for me to use my phone affectively. I use phones that have complete data functionality as this is my main source of internet use especially email exchange. Over the years, I have had phones such as the dash, Samsung slider, and most recently, a blackberry 8320. These phones that I have had provided the ability to increase the font to a suitable size; however, I ran in to many technical difficulties. These difficulties ranged from frequent system failures with the phones, as well as the phones rebooting themselves during calls or other important activities. My problem with the screen magnification capabilities is as follows. My newest blackberry 9700 does not save the font changes to be applied on all the phones functions. In addition, when I am on the internet, and try to use the zoom-in function feature, the words become jumbled and unreadable. I proceeded to obtain a phone that met my needs. This is where the problems began with both the customer service representatives from T-mobile as well as the account specialty department. Over the past few months, I have had many conversations in an attempt at finding an accessible phone for my needs. Many times, I have been misinformed about t-mobiles products which turned out to be inaccessible. An example of this was the G1 and the touch. In a final attempt at finding an accessible phone, I visited the T-mobile store located at 735 6TH Avenue in New York City on Friday, December 11, 2009 at 4:00PM. The in-store representative was understanding of my needs and spent an hour trying to find a phone for me. In his attempts, He contacted the customer care call center for some suggestions. After a few moments, a request was given to the representative for me to speak with the customer care agent. Although I can not recollect the agent's name, I do recall him saying that "as the technology becomes newer, they are taking out the feature which enables customers to increase the font size. The call concluded with me realizing that I must cancel my service with this company. The in-store representative then showed me his personal HTC Touch Pro 2 which has the ability to increase the font size; however, the font can only be increased to an approximate size of 10PT. I have done some research and found that AT&T is able to successfully meet my needs. I am ready to cancel my contract with T-mobile As a result of T-mobile's inability to provide an accessible phone for me. This evening, I contacted T-Mobile to discuss canceling my contract. Once again, the representative tried to offer me several phones such as the G1 and My touch. In addition, she informed me that "by law, T-mobile offers phones for the hearing impaired and the blind; however, these are simple phones that do not support data plans." She proceeded to tell me that most of their visually impaired customers "don't use data plans." She told me that I would have to pay a cancellation fee of $200.00. I asked to speak to a supervisor about this since I feel that I should not be subjected to pay this fee. She then told me that I should contact their legal department at the following address. T-mobile wireless: Legal department 12920 South East 38TH Street Bellevue Washington 98006-1350 I would appreciate any help in this matter as I feel I should not be penalized for canceling a service that I can not use. I can be reached via email and help in this matter as I feel I should not be penalized for canceling a service that I can not use. I can be reached via email and telephone at the following. My contact email is yvtscott at gmail.com and my phone number is (917)407-5666. Thank you in advance, Yvetta Scott _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rthomas%40rjtlawfi rm.com From ukekearuaro at valtdnet.com Mon Dec 14 17:13:46 2009 From: ukekearuaro at valtdnet.com (Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc.) Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2009 10:13:46 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] T-mobile References: <59364.26897.qm@web30901.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hello Yvetta: Why not file a complaint with the FCC? It does have a department that can address the issues you have. I am away from my desk as I type this; if no one else provides the info before I can get to it, I shall repost the FCC contact info here or send them to you privately. Sincerely, Olusegun Denver, Colorado From steve.jacobson at visi.com Mon Dec 14 17:15:24 2009 From: steve.jacobson at visi.com (Steve Jacobson) Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2009 11:15:24 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] needed to re-post. In-Reply-To: <405365.81793.qm@web30907.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: William, I am not a lawyer so I don't know how solid your legal position is. However, in talking with T-Mobile, keep in mind that the fee they want when you cancel a contract is mostly to reclaim the subsidy they gave you when you chose a phone. You likely signed something saying you were aware of the cancellation fee, and there probably was a grace period of some kind. It AT&T truly offering you a completely accessible phone without the addition of Mobile Speak or TALKS? I know that they subsidize the purchase of these programs, but I believe AT&T is the only one that does. T-Mobile will be able to claim that you have the same options, but that they simply don't match AT&T's price. If you are thinking of going with the I Phone, there are lots of people who probably would like to get out of their contract to get it, blind or sighted, and that will water down your position some. The I Phone is nice, but you should be completely sure you want to switch to that phone before committing. There is a learning curve to using it and there are some limitations as to the availability of bluetooth devices and such. Also, because the I Phone is accessible does not mean that all applications for it are. My point is not to start an argument with you, but to highlight issues for which you need to be prepared if you work with T-Mobile. They might let you out just to avoid the hassle, but they are going to be very careful not to set a precedence allowing people to leave a contract because a nicer phone became available somewhere else. Best regards, Steve Jacobson On Mon, 14 Dec 2009 00:19:29 -0800 (PST), William ODonnell wrote: >This email is being sent on behalf of William O����"Donnell in care of Yvetta Scott, The below post is lengthy; however, it is in regard to T-Mobile and some customer service issues that she is having. > I have been a t-mobile customer since 2005. I am currently locked into a contract until 2011. My issue is the inaccessibility of both t-mobiles products and the insensitivity toward my visual impairment by the representatives from t-mobile. > I prefer a product that has both a screen-reader and a screen magnification program. However, screen magnification (ability to increase font to at least 14 PT) is absolutely necessary for me to use my phone affectively. > I use phones that have complete data functionality as this is my main source of internet use especially email exchange. Over the years, I have had phones such as the dash, Samsung slider, and most recently, a blackberry 8320. These phones that I have had provided the ability to increase the font to a suitable size; however, I ran in to many technical difficulties. These difficulties ranged from frequent system failures with the phones, as well as the phones rebooting themselves during calls or other important activities. > My problem with the screen magnification capabilities is as follows. My newest blackberry 9700 does not save the font changes to be applied on all the phones functions. In addition, when I am on the internet, and try to use the zoom-in function feature, the words become jumbled and unreadable. I proceeded to obtain a phone that met my needs. This is where the problems began with both the customer service representatives from T-mobile as well as the account specialty department. Over the past few months, I have had many conversations in an attempt at finding an accessible phone for my needs. Many times, I have been misinformed about t-mobiles products which turned out to be inaccessible. An example of this was the G1 and the touch. In a final attempt at finding an accessible phone, I visited the T-mobile store located at 735 6TH Avenue in New York City on Friday, December 11, 2009 at 4:00PM. The in-store representative was understanding of my >needs and spent an hour trying to find a phone for me. In his attempts, He contacted the customer care call center for some suggestions. After a few moments, a request was given to the representative for me to speak with the customer care agent. Although I can not recollect the agent����"s name, I do recall him saying that ����Sas the technology becomes newer, they are taking out the feature which enables customers to increase the font size. The call concluded with me realizing that I must cancel my service with this company. The in-store representative then showed me his personal HTC Touch Pro 2 which has the ability to increase the font size; however, the font can only be increased to an approximate size of 10PT. > I have done some research and found that AT&T is able to successfully meet my needs. I am ready to cancel my contract with T-mobile As a result of T-mobile�� ��"s inability to provide an accessible phone for me. This evening, I contacted T-Mobile to discuss canceling my contract. Once again, the representative tried to offer me several phones such as the G1 and My touch. In addition, she informed me that ����Sby law, T-mobile offers phones for the hearing impaired and the blind; however, these are simple phones that do not support data plans.����_ She proceeded to tell me that most of their visually impaired customers ����Sdon����"t use data plans.����_ She told me that I would have to pay a cancellation fee of $200.00. I asked to speak to a supervisor about this since I feel that I should not be subjected to pay this fee. She then told me that I should contact their legal department at the following address. T-mobile wireless: Legal department 12920 > South >East 38TH Street Bellevue Washington 98006-1350 >I would appreciate any help in this matter as I feel I should not be penalized for canceling a service that I can not use. I can be reached via email and help in this matter as I feel I should not be penalized for canceling a service that I can not use. I can be reached via email and telephone at the following. My contact email is yvtscott at gmail.com and my phone number is (917)407-5666. Thank you in advance, >Yvetta Scott > >_______________________________________________ >blindlaw mailing list >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40visi.com From mruniverse08 at gmail.com Tue Dec 15 14:42:41 2009 From: mruniverse08 at gmail.com (WB) Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2009 08:42:41 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] Blind Paralegal Looking for Work...Yet Again Message-ID: <021701ca7d94$dbdbb000$93931000$@com> Hi Folks! I hope everyone is doing well. I've placed some postings on here in months past asking for advice on how to find work as a blind paralegal. I've taken most of the suggestions I've received to no avail. I've been on interviews and through trial and error, figured that I would take my laptop to explain how the assistive technology works. I've taken the suggestions of how to set up a freelance business with no luck. Is anyone else having this problem? I could really use some tangible, effective help. I'm drowning here. Thanks for any help. Will From rthomas at rjtlawfirm.com Tue Dec 15 16:16:12 2009 From: rthomas at rjtlawfirm.com (Russell J. Thomas, Jr.) Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2009 08:16:12 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] Blind Paralegal Looking for Work...Yet Again In-Reply-To: <021701ca7d94$dbdbb000$93931000$@com> References: <021701ca7d94$dbdbb000$93931000$@com> Message-ID: <5F659D9DF4EF4908B611A10AA7FAAD78@russ> Blind or sighted--this is the worst job market for the legal profession in decades. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of WB Sent: Tuesday, December 15, 2009 6:43 AM To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: [blindlaw] Blind Paralegal Looking for Work...Yet Again Hi Folks! I hope everyone is doing well. I've placed some postings on here in months past asking for advice on how to find work as a blind paralegal. I've taken most of the suggestions I've received to no avail. I've been on interviews and through trial and error, figured that I would take my laptop to explain how the assistive technology works. I've taken the suggestions of how to set up a freelance business with no luck. Is anyone else having this problem? I could really use some tangible, effective help. I'm drowning here. Thanks for any help. Will _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rthomas%40rjtlawfi rm.com From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov Tue Dec 15 16:55:49 2009 From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel) Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2009 10:55:49 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] Dept. of Labor FW: Vacancy Announcement Message-ID: ________________________________ From: Banjo, Akinyemi - ODEP [mailto:banjo.akinyemi at dol.gov] Sent: Monday, December 14, 2009 4:21 PM Subject: Vacancy Announcement Dear Colleague, The Department of Labor, Office of the Solicitor (SOL), has an exciting job opportunity that we would like to share with your office in an effort to diversify our recruiting efforts. We would like for you to disseminate this information within your community of job seekers. If you have questions please feel free to contact: Ade'Leaka Gore, HR Specialist at 202.693.5420 and/or email gore.adeleaka at dol.gov Also, the attached is a flyer on Department of Labor's STEP Career Fair for students with disabilities. Thanks. <> Are you a current Federal employee, Veteran eligible to apply under the Veteran's Employment Opportunity Act of 1988 (VEOA), eligible family member under Executive Order 12721, or a military spouse eligible under Executive Order 13473 looking for a new and exciting job opportunity? Come join the Department of Labor - Office of the Solicitor, where Opportunities are open! The Office of the Solicitor's mission is to meet the legal service demands of the entire Department of Labor. As the Secretary of Labor and other Department officials seek to accomplish the Department's overall mission and to further specific priorities, the Office of the Solicitor (SOL) provides legal advice regarding how to achieve those goals. SOL ensures that the Nation's labor laws are forcefully and fairly applied to protect the Nation's workers. SOL is currently recruiting for a Lead Human Resources Specialist position (GS-201-13/14) and two Human Resources Specialists to make an impact in support of our mission. These positions are located in the Management and Administrative Legal Services Division (MALS), Human Resources Office. These positions are posted on USAJOBS; to view these jobs in its entirety, select one of the links provided below. Lead Human Resources Specialist (GS-201-13/14) http://jobview.usajobs.gov/GetJob.aspx?JobID=85049745&JobTitle=Lead+Human+Resources+Specialist&jbf574=DL*&FedEmp=Y&FedPub=Y&sort=rv%2c-dtex&vw=d&re=4&caller=basic.aspx&pg=2&AVSDM=2009-12-09+17%3a50%3a00 Human Resources Specialist (GS-201-12/13) http://jobview.usajobs.gov/GetJob.aspx?JobID=85069606&JobTitle=Human+Resources+Specialist&jbf574=DL*&FedEmp=Y&FedPub=Y&sort=rv%2c-dtex&vw=d&re=4&caller=basic.aspx&pg=2&AVSDM=2009-12-10+16%3a29%3a00 Human Resources Specialist (GS-201-11/12/13) http://jobview.usajobs.gov/GetJob.aspx?JobID=85071094&JobTitle=Human+Resources+Specialist&jbf574=DL*&FedEmp=Y&FedPub=Y&sort=rv%2c-dtex&vw=d&re=134&caller=basic.aspx&AVSDM=2009-12-10+17%3a26%3a00 NOTE: You must submit your application, along with your supporting documents, online via USAJOBS in order to be considered for any one of these positions. To be eligible for a VEOA appointment, a veteran must: * be a preference eligible OR veteran separated after 3 or more years of continuous active service performed under honorable conditions. Veterans who were released shortly before completing a 3-year tour are considered to be eligible. ("Active service" defined in title 37, United States Code, means active duty in the uniformed services and includes full-time training duty, annual training duty, full-time National Guard duty, and attendance, while in the active service, at a school designated as a service school by law or by the Secretary concerned.) ------------------------- Akinyemi Banjo U.S. Department of Labor Phone: 202-693-7919 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Dear Colleague - STEP Career Fair External.doc Type: application/msword Size: 49152 bytes Desc: Dear Colleague - STEP Career Fair External.doc URL: From cathrynisfinally at verizon.net Wed Dec 16 11:45:36 2009 From: cathrynisfinally at verizon.net (Cathryn Bonnette) Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 06:45:36 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Dept. of Labor FW: Vacancy Announcement In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <33DCE8F285C848B1927D01BE4B8AA609@14bd0130080a469> This does not seem to include Schedule A for persons with targeted disabilities - does it? -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Nightingale, Noel Sent: Tuesday, December 15, 2009 11:56 AM To: 'blindlaw at nfbnet.org' Subject: [blindlaw] Dept. of Labor FW: Vacancy Announcement ________________________________ From: Banjo, Akinyemi - ODEP [mailto:banjo.akinyemi at dol.gov] Sent: Monday, December 14, 2009 4:21 PM Subject: Vacancy Announcement Dear Colleague, The Department of Labor, Office of the Solicitor (SOL), has an exciting job opportunity that we would like to share with your office in an effort to diversify our recruiting efforts. We would like for you to disseminate this information within your community of job seekers. If you have questions please feel free to contact: Ade'Leaka Gore, HR Specialist at 202.693.5420 and/or email gore.adeleaka at dol.gov Also, the attached is a flyer on Department of Labor's STEP Career Fair for students with disabilities. Thanks. <> Are you a current Federal employee, Veteran eligible to apply under the Veteran's Employment Opportunity Act of 1988 (VEOA), eligible family member under Executive Order 12721, or a military spouse eligible under Executive Order 13473 looking for a new and exciting job opportunity? Come join the Department of Labor - Office of the Solicitor, where Opportunities are open! The Office of the Solicitor's mission is to meet the legal service demands of the entire Department of Labor. As the Secretary of Labor and other Department officials seek to accomplish the Department's overall mission and to further specific priorities, the Office of the Solicitor (SOL) provides legal advice regarding how to achieve those goals. SOL ensures that the Nation's labor laws are forcefully and fairly applied to protect the Nation's workers. SOL is currently recruiting for a Lead Human Resources Specialist position (GS-201-13/14) and two Human Resources Specialists to make an impact in support of our mission. These positions are located in the Management and Administrative Legal Services Division (MALS), Human Resources Office. These positions are posted on USAJOBS; to view these jobs in its entirety, select one of the links provided below. Lead Human Resources Specialist (GS-201-13/14) http://jobview.usajobs.gov/GetJob.aspx?JobID=85049745&JobTitle=Lead+Human+Re sources+Specialist&jbf574=DL*&FedEmp=Y&FedPub=Y&sort=rv%2c-dtex&vw=d&re=4&ca ller=basic.aspx&pg=2&AVSDM=2009-12-09+17%3a50%3a00 Human Resources Specialist (GS-201-12/13) http://jobview.usajobs.gov/GetJob.aspx?JobID=85069606&JobTitle=Human+Resourc es+Specialist&jbf574=DL*&FedEmp=Y&FedPub=Y&sort=rv%2c-dtex&vw=d&re=4&caller= basic.aspx&pg=2&AVSDM=2009-12-10+16%3a29%3a00 Human Resources Specialist (GS-201-11/12/13) http://jobview.usajobs.gov/GetJob.aspx?JobID=85071094&JobTitle=Human+Resourc es+Specialist&jbf574=DL*&FedEmp=Y&FedPub=Y&sort=rv%2c-dtex&vw=d&re=134&calle r=basic.aspx&AVSDM=2009-12-10+17%3a26%3a00 NOTE: You must submit your application, along with your supporting documents, online via USAJOBS in order to be considered for any one of these positions. To be eligible for a VEOA appointment, a veteran must: * be a preference eligible OR veteran separated after 3 or more years of continuous active service performed under honorable conditions. Veterans who were released shortly before completing a 3-year tour are considered to be eligible. ("Active service" defined in title 37, United States Code, means active duty in the uniformed services and includes full-time training duty, annual training duty, full-time National Guard duty, and attendance, while in the active service, at a school designated as a service school by law or by the Secretary concerned.) ------------------------- Akinyemi Banjo U.S. Department of Labor Phone: 202-693-7919 No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.427 / Virus Database: 270.14.105/2562 - Release Date: 12/15/09 07:52:00 From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov Wed Dec 16 19:33:09 2009 From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel) Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 13:33:09 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] FW: Attorney Vacancies at the U.S. Department of Justice Message-ID: ________________________________ From: jobs-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:jobs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Maurer, Patricia Sent: Tuesday, December 15, 2009 11:21 AM To: jobs at nfbnet.org Subject: [Jobs] FW: Attorney Vacancies at the U.S. Department of Justice ________________________________ From: Hunter, Sue [mailto:Sue.Hunter at usdoj.gov] Sent: Tuesday, December 15, 2009 2:18 PM To: nawl at nawl.org; ncai at ncai.org; nedy at wyjlaw.com; newmedia at ja.org; Neysas at dnfsb.gov; Maurer, Patricia; nijc at aol.com; nlove at opd.state.md.us; nmcconnell at jackscamp.com; noconnell at tabinc.org; noryrp at cox.net; nromulus at gmail.com; ntb at boglechang.com; nwpatton at law.stanford.edu; ocaaba at cox.net; omanager at lawyerscomm.org; palsd at hotmail.com; patel at fr.com; pchanster at yahoo.com; pchapman at koonz.com; pgrewal at daycasebeer.com; pkim at lordbissell.com; Maurer, Patricia; pmorrison at state.wv.us; poppy.johnston at unlv.edu Subject: FW: Attorney Vacancies at the U.S. Department of Justice To learn more about our attorneys and what they like most about working at DOJ, please visit our attorney profiles at, http://www.usdoj.gov/oarm/arm/profiles.htm, and the video clips of our attorneys and interns available at https://www.avuedigitalservices.com/ads/jobsatdojoarm/index.jsp We encourage you to share this email with interested colleagues and peers. If you no longer wish to receive these periodic email announcements, please respond to this email address and ask to be removed from our mailing list. Thank you. Current Department of Justice Attorney Vacancies * ASSISTANT UNITED STATES ATTORNEY UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE DISTRICT OF NEW JERSEY VACANCY ANNOUNCEMENT NUMBER 10-NJ-01 Our hiring process is open and continuous. To be considered for the current vacancies, applications must be received by December 21, 2009. Date posted: 12-14-2009 * BUREAU OF ALCOHOL TOBACCO FIREARMS AND EXPLOSIVES OFFICE OF THE CHIEF COUNSEL DIVISION COUNSEL, HOUSTON TX GS-905-15 Applications must be received by January 13, 2010 the closing date of this announcement. Date posted: 12-14-2009 * DEPUTY DIRECTOR, LEGAL RECRUITMENT AND OUTREACH OFFICE OF THE ATTORNEY RECRUITMENT AND MANAGEMENT U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE GS-15 This position will be open until filled, but applications must be received by January 22, 2010. Date posted: 12-11-2009 * ASSISTANT UNITED STATES ATTORNEY UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE NORTHERN DISTRICT OF OHIO VACANCY ANNOUNCEMENT NUMBER: NDOH-10-02 Applications must be received no later than January 11, 2010. Date posted: 12-09-2009 * ASSISTANT UNITED STATES ATTORNEY UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA NORFOLK OFFICE10-EDVA-02 Positions are open until filled, but resumes must be received by December 23, 2009. Date posted: 12-09-2009 * ASSISTANT UNITED STATES ATTORNEY UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA ALEXANDRIA OFFICE10-EDVA-01 Positions are open until filled, but resumes must be received by December 23, 2009. Date posted: 12-09-2009 * IMMIGRATION JUDGE EXECUTIVE OFFICE FOR IMMIGRATION REVIEW HONOLULU, HAWAII VACANCY ANNOUNCEMENT NUMBER: EOIR-10-0058 All applications must be received in the Human Resources Office by the close of business on December 29, 2009. Date posted: 12-09-2009 * MMIGRATION JUDGE EXECUTIVE OFFICE FOR IMMIGRATION REVIEW SAN FRANCISCO, CA VACANCY ANNOUNCEMENT NUMBER: EOIR-10-0057 All applications must be received in the Human Resources Office by the close of business on December 29, 2009. Date posted: 12-09-2009 * IMMIGRATION JUDGE EXECUTIVE OFFICE FOR IMMIGRATION REVIEW BATAVIA (BUFFALO SERVICE PROCESSING CENTER), NY VACANCY ANNOUNCEMENT NUMBER: EOIR-10-0056 All applications must be received in the Human Resources Office by the close of business on December 29, 2009. Date posted: 12-09-2009 * IMMIGRATION JUDGE EXECUTIVE OFFICE FOR IMMIGRATION REVIEW PORTLAND, OREGON VACANCY ANNOUNCEMENT NUMBER: EOIR-10-0055 All applications must be received in the Human Resources Office by the close of business on December 29, 2009. Date posted: 12-09-2009 * IMMIGRATION JUDGE EXECUTIVE OFFICE FOR IMMIGRATION REVIEW LOS ANGELES, CALIFORNIA VACANCY ANNOUNCEMENT NUMBER: EOIR-10-0054 All applications must be received in the Human Resources Office by the close of business on December 29, 2009. Date posted: 12-09-2009 * ASSISTANT UNITED STATES ATTORNEY UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE NORTHERN DISTRICT OF TEXAS DALLAS, TEXAS Hand-Delivered applications must be received by 5:00pm December 18, 2009. Mailed applications must be postmarked by December 18, 2009. Date posted: 12-04-2009 * U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE CRIMINAL DIVISION ASSET FORFEITURE AND MONEY LAUNDERING SECTION TRIAL ATTORNEY, GS-13/14/15 09-CRM-AFMLS-050 All applications must be received by December 10, 2009. Applications received after that date will not be considered. Date posted: 12-03-2009 * U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE CRIMINAL DIVISION APPELLATE SECTION DEPUTY CHIEF, GS-905-15 ANNOUNCEMENT #: 09-CRM-APP-049 All applications must be received by December 18, 2009. Applications received after that date will not be considered. Date posted: 12-03-2009 * IMMIGRATION JUDGE EXECUTIVE OFFICE FOR IMMIGRATION REVIEW HOUSTON, TX (SPC) VACANCY ANNOUNCEMENT NUMBER: EOIR-10-0049 All applications must be received in the Human Resources Office by the close of business on December 22, 2009. Date posted: 12-02-2009 * IMMIGRATION JUDGE EXECUTIVE OFFICE FOR IMMIGRATION REVIEW NEWARK, NJ VACANCY ANNOUNCEMENT NUMBER: EOIR-10-0048 All applications must be received in the Human Resources Office by the close of business on December 22, 2009. Date posted: 12-02-2009 * IMMIGRATION JUDGE EXECUTIVE OFFICE FOR IMMIGRATION REVIEW PHILADELPHIA, PA VACANCY ANNOUNCEMENT NUMBER: EOIR-10-0047 All applications must be received in the Human Resources Office by the close of business on December 22, 2009. Date posted: 12-02-2009 * IMMIGRATION JUDGE EXECUTIVE OFFICE FOR IMMIGRATION REVIEW HOUSTON, TX VACANCY ANNOUNCEMENT NUMBER: EOIR-10-0046 All applications must be received in the Human Resources Office by the close of business on December 22, 2009. Date posted: 12-02-2009 * IMMIGRATION JUDGE EXECUTIVE OFFICE FOR IMMIGRATION REVIEW CHICAGO, IL VACANCY ANNOUNCEMENT NUMBER: EOIR-10-0045 All applications must be received in the Human Resources Office by the close of business on December 22, 2009. Date posted: 12-02-2009 * IMMIGRATION JUDGE EXECUTIVE OFFICE FOR IMMIGRATION REVIEW NEW YORK, NY VACANCY ANNOUNCEMENT NUMBER: EOIR-10-0044 All applications must be received in the Human Resources Office by the close of business on December 22, 2009. Date posted: 12-02-2009 * IMMIGRATION JUDGE EXECUTIVE OFFICE FOR IMMIGRATION REVIEW DETROIT, MI VACANCY ANNOUNCEMENT NUMBER: EOIR-10-0043 All applications must be received in the Human Resources Office by the close of business on December 22, 2009. Date posted: 12-02-2009 * IMMIGRATION JUDGE EXECUTIVE OFFICE FOR IMMIGRATION REVIEW MIAMI, FL VACANCY ANNOUNCEMENT NUMBER: EOIR-10-0036 All applications must be received in the Human Resources Office by the close of business on December 22, 2009. Date posted: 12-02-2009 * ASSISTANT UNITED STATES ATTORNEY UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE DISTRICT OF MASSACHUSETTS Position is open until filled. Date posted: 12-02-2009 * SUPERVISORY GENERAL ATTORNEY EXECUTIVE OFFICE FOR IMMIGRATION REVIEW FALLS CHURCH, VA VACANCY ANNOUNCEMENT NUMBER: EOIR-10-0039 Applications received after December 24, 2009, will not be considered. Date posted: 12-01-2009 The purpose of this email is to advise potential interested persons of employment opportunities at the Department of Justice. The Department of Justice cannot control further dissemination and/or posting of this information. Such posting and/or dissemination is not an endorsement by the Department of the organization or group disseminating and/or posting the information. -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Jobs mailing list Jobs at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/jobs_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Jobs: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/jobs_nfbnet.org/noel.nightingale%40ed.gov From benkarpilow at gmail.com Wed Dec 16 22:35:44 2009 From: benkarpilow at gmail.com (Ben Karpilow) Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 14:35:44 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] Blind Paralegal Looking for Work...Yet Again References: <021701ca7d94$dbdbb000$93931000$@com> Message-ID: I'm a big fan of networking. If you know any lawyers socially, start with them. If you have friends or family in the area, ask them whether they know any lawyers, then contact those lawyers as a friend or relative of whoever it was that mentioned their name. This will create added pressure to give you the time of day since there's a personal connection involved. Then, keep contacting those lawyers, ask them who they know, who they can refer you to, etc. You may even want to consider doing some volunteer work so people can see the quality of your work without going out of pocket. Then, once they see your quality, and that you're capable of doing the job, they may feel more inclined to offer you steady, paying work. These are just suggestions, and I hope they help. Keep plugging away and hang in there. Sincerely, Ben Karpilow From: "WB" To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Sent: Tuesday, December 15, 2009 6:42 AM Subject: [blindlaw] Blind Paralegal Looking for Work...Yet Again > Hi Folks! I hope everyone is doing well. > > > > I've placed some postings on here in months past asking for advice on how > to > find work as a blind paralegal. I've taken most of the suggestions I've > received to no avail. > > > > I've been on interviews and through trial and error, figured that I would > take my laptop to explain how the assistive technology works. I've taken > the suggestions of how to set up a freelance business with no luck. > > > > Is anyone else having this problem? I could really use some tangible, > effective help. I'm drowning here. > > > > Thanks for any help. > > > > Will > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/benkarpilow%40gmail.com From mruniverse08 at gmail.com Wed Dec 16 22:37:20 2009 From: mruniverse08 at gmail.com (WB) Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 16:37:20 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] Blind Paralegal Looking for Work...Yet Again In-Reply-To: References: <021701ca7d94$dbdbb000$93931000$@com> Message-ID: <05ae01ca7ea0$5528e110$ff7aa330$@com> Hi Ben! Thanks so much for those suggestions. I've been plugging away at those quite a bit. Smile! I am part of a paralegal association and have contacted some attorneys and done some volunteer work at some of the legal clinics we have here. I keep running into the same problem...either there is not enough work to outsource or they do not outsource period. I'm still trudging along with this though. Hopefully something will come along soon. Will -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ben Karpilow Sent: Wednesday, December 16, 2009 4:36 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Blind Paralegal Looking for Work...Yet Again I'm a big fan of networking. If you know any lawyers socially, start with them. If you have friends or family in the area, ask them whether they know any lawyers, then contact those lawyers as a friend or relative of whoever it was that mentioned their name. This will create added pressure to give you the time of day since there's a personal connection involved. Then, keep contacting those lawyers, ask them who they know, who they can refer you to, etc. You may even want to consider doing some volunteer work so people can see the quality of your work without going out of pocket. Then, once they see your quality, and that you're capable of doing the job, they may feel more inclined to offer you steady, paying work. These are just suggestions, and I hope they help. Keep plugging away and hang in there. Sincerely, Ben Karpilow From: "WB" To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Sent: Tuesday, December 15, 2009 6:42 AM Subject: [blindlaw] Blind Paralegal Looking for Work...Yet Again > Hi Folks! I hope everyone is doing well. > > > > I've placed some postings on here in months past asking for advice on how > to > find work as a blind paralegal. I've taken most of the suggestions I've > received to no avail. > > > > I've been on interviews and through trial and error, figured that I would > take my laptop to explain how the assistive technology works. I've taken > the suggestions of how to set up a freelance business with no luck. > > > > Is anyone else having this problem? I could really use some tangible, > effective help. I'm drowning here. > > > > Thanks for any help. > > > > Will > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/benkarpilow%40gmai l.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniverse08%40gma il.com From dandrews at visi.com Thu Dec 17 02:56:32 2009 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 20:56:32 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] FW: A truly great statement by US delegation at WIPO SCCR Message-ID: >FYI: >Forwarded with permission. Kathie > >Below please find the U.S. Delegation's turnabout and embracing of >the proposed WIPO international treaty on copyright exceptions for >the blind, forwarded to me by Carrie Russell from the ALA Washington >Office of Information and Technology Policy. I'd like to think that >the comments from the various stakeholders recorded by LC helped >with the determination. Let's hope Western European nations follow suit. > > >Mike L. Marlin, Manager >California Braille and Talking Book Library >Sacramento, CA >mmarlin at library.ca.gov >Phone: (916) 651-0812 > >-----Original Message----- >From: Carrie Russell [mailto:crussell at alawash.org] >Sent: Tuesday, December 15, 2009 8:32 AM >To: Susan Hornung; Michael.york at dcr.nh.gov; Marlin. Mike; Jessica M. >Brodey; Kendall Wiggin >Subject: A truly great statement by US delegation at WIPO SCCR > >This is very great news. The US delegation under Obama appears to >understand the importance of copyright limitations and exceptions >and access to information for the visually impaired. We should all >be celebrating! > > >http://www.wo.ala.org/districtdispatch/?p=4144 > >World Intellectual Property Organization > Standing Committee on Copyright and Related Rights (SCCR) > Nineteenth Session > December 14-18, 2009 > > United States of America > > Statement on Copyright Exceptions and Limitations for > Persons with Print Disabilities > > As Delivered > > December, 2009 > > Geneva, Switzerland > > > > >Thank you, Mr. Chairman. > > >The United States is proud to have a series of specific exceptions >and limitations in our copyright law, including for education, >libraries, and persons with print disabilities. > > >The law of the United States has these exceptions because we believe >access to information, cultural expression, and ideas is essential >and we know that governments have a role to play in facilitating >that access and reducing barriers to information, education and full >participation in a democratic society. So while the United States >believes profoundly, in the words of our Supreme Court, that >copyright law is "the engine of free expression,"1we are also >committed to policies that ensure everyone has a chance to get the >information and education they need and to live independently as >full citizens in their communities. > > >Because education and civic engagement can be severely limited when >information is not available in accessible formats, under US >copyright law qualified non-profit organizations and government >agencies are free to reproduce and distribute published literary >works under copyright in specialized formats for use by blind >persons or persons with other print disabilities. We acknowledge >that more is needed, but we are proud of what this copyright >exception has achieved. One of the main providers of materials under >this exception, the National Library Service, distributes two (2) >million Braille and audiobook copies of works to nearly 800,000 >users each year. And we have had this provision in our law since 1996. > > >Of course, the United States is not alone in serving those with >print disabilities through carefully crafted limitations and >exceptions in copyright law. As we all know, over 50 countries have >specific statutory exceptions addressed to the needs of the >visually-impaired and persons with print disabilities. Other >countries like India are in the midst of thoughtful deliberations on >their own national exceptions. > > >So the United States is pleased that WIPO is addressing this issue. >We believe that WIPO can move forward on this issue meaningfully and seriously. > > >In that respect, the United States wants to first acknowledge the >WIPO Study on Copyright Limitations and Exceptions for the Visually >Impaired, prepared by Ms. Judith Sullivan, and presented to the >Standing Committee in 2006.2 This Study represents the kind of >thorough comparative work we must always do as a foundation for the >development of new norms in international copyright law. We also >recognizes the on-going work of the WIPO Stakeholders' Platform, >which continues to explore in detail how the needs of persons with >print disabilities can be better addressed through trusted >intermediaries, new technologies, better formats, and improved "best >practices" in the publishing industry. > > >The United States also wants to acknowledge and express our >appreciation for the draft treaty language prepared by the World >Blind Union and submitted as a formal proposal at the last session >of the Standing Committee by our colleagues from Brazil, Ecuador, >and Paraguay.3 We want to recognize the tremendous work on that >draft that was done by the World Blind Union, the International >Federation of Library Associations, the DAISY Consortium, and >several other groups and individuals. The WBU treaty proposal will >help the Standing Committee focus on this problem and find the right >means of addressing access to materials for people with print >disabilities through well-crafted exceptions to copyright protection >that can become an integral part of the international copyright system. > > >As we explained in the last meeting of the Standing Committee, the >United States has been engaged in a process of understanding the >problems that confront persons with print disabilities in our own >country. This has been a joint effort of the U.S. Patent and >Trademark Office and the U.S. Copyright Office with leadership from >the White House. This process included a Notice of Inquiry in March >2009 that generated numerous public responses; a public roundtable >in May with many stakeholder representatives presenting different >perspectives on making copyrighted works accessible to persons with >print disabilities; a further public comment period in October and >December that included specific questions on the WBU treaty >proposal; and, just last week, an informal White House meeting of >representatives from our country's leading organizations for the >blind and visually-impaired, our library community, and our >copyright industries. > > >Those of us working on this issue in the U.S. Government believe >that we are genuinely studentsof this problem; we are still in the >process of learning. But we are committed to doing our homework and >doing it well. > > >Having said that we are still learning and studying, the United >States comes to this meeting with greater clarity and conviction in >our views on how the international copyright community should >proceed in addressing the needs of those with print disabilities. > > > Our commitment to reaching an international consensus > > on copyright exceptions for persons with print disabilities > > >First, the United States believes that the time has come for WIPO >Members to work toward some form of international consensus on >basic, necessary limitations and exceptions in copyright law for >persons with print disabilities. This international consensus could >take multiple forms, including a model law endorsed by the SCCR, a >detailed Joint Recommendation to be adopted by the WIPO General >Assemblies, and/or a multilateral treaty. The United States is open >to discussing and exploring all these options. > >The United States believes that the initial most productive course >of action may be a work program that begins with a series of >serious, focused consultations aimed at producing a >carefully-crafted Joint Recommendation of the Berne Assembly and the >WIPO General Assembly. We further believe this initial Joint >Recommendation could be a step toward the development of a treaty >establishing basic copyright limitations and exceptions for persons >with print disabilities. > > > The first goal of international consensus in this area > > >In our consultations and review it has become clear to us that the >most pressing problem - the one identified repeatedly by experts - >is the cross-border distribution of special format materials made >for persons with print disabilities, whether these special format >materials are made under copyright exceptions in national law or >special licensing arrangements. Therefore, the United States >believes that our first goal should be to reach international >consensus on the free exportation and importation of special format >materials for persons with print disabilities in all countries. > > >We are confident that this body, the Berne Assembly, and the WIPO >General Assembly have the expertise, wisdom, and resolve to find a >suitable solution to this problem. We are prepared to work with >other countries to explore creative solutions to this problem, >including, but not limited to, [a] the establishment of a >properly-limited international rule of exhaustion in relation to >special format copies made under existing national law exceptions >for persons with print disabilities and/or [b] an international >legal norm that trusted intermediaries and non-profit organizations >working for persons with print disabilities must be able to exchange >special format copies without fear that copyright law bars such activities. > > >We believe that a solution to the problem of cross-border >distribution of special format materials, properly delineated to >prevent abuses,would solve the foremost problems identified by the >print disability and visually-impaired communities. > > > Further international consensus on basic exceptions for print > disabilities > > >The United States is also prepared to participate in a WIPO work >program to establish further international consensus on specific >exceptions and limitations for persons with print disabilities that >should be part of national copyright laws. > > >As a practical matter, we believe that this project will take longer >than finding common ground on the cross-border distribution of >special format copies made under existing national exceptions. >First, any such consensus should acknowledge the diversity of >established national laws in this area and the diversity of >successful experiences with copyright exceptions for persons with >print disabilities that WIPO Members have had. Second, any such >consensus should ensure that WIPO Members retain the flexibility to >craft copyright exceptions and limitations to meet changing social, >economic, and technological conditions that affect the print >disability community. Third, the specific exceptions and limitations >that emerge from such a process should acknowledge - as many in the >visually impaired and print disability communities have told us >-- that market practices can often help to solve problems of access >to materials and that mandatory exceptions are most needed to >address market failures. Finally, consensus on basic copyright >exceptions for the print disability communities can and should be >reached within the framework of the Berne acquis; Berne Article >9(2); and the corresponding provisions of TRIPS, the WCT, and the WPPT. > > > A balanced system of international copyright law > > >We recognize that some in the international copyright community >believe that any international consensus on substantive limitations >and exceptions to copyright law would weaken international copyright >law. The United States does not share that point of view. The United >States is committed to both better exceptions in copyright law and >better enforcement of copyright law. Indeed, as we work with >countries to establish consensus on proper, basic exceptions within >copyright law, we will ask countries to work with us to improve the >enforcement of copyright. This is part and parcel of a balanced >international system of intellectual property. > > >Thank you. > > ># # # > > >1 Harper & Row, Publishers. v. Nation Enterprises., 471 U.S. 539, 558 >(1985) ("it should not be forgotten that the Framers intended >copyright itself to be the engine of free expression.") 2 >http://www.wipo.int/meetings/en/doc_details.jsp?doc_id=75696 >3 http://www.wipo.int/meetings/en/doc_details.jsp?doc_id=122732 > > >_______________________________________________ >kei-staff mailing list >kei-staff at lists.keionline.org >http://lists.keionline.org/mailman/listinfo/kei-staff_lists.keionline.or >g > > > > > > >-- >James Love, Director, Knowledge Ecology International >http://www.keionline.org | http://www.twitter.com/jamie_love >Wk: +1.202.332.2670 | US Mobile +1.202.361.3040 | Geneva Mobile >+41.76.413.6584 > >_______________________________________________ >LawfulUse mailing list >LawfulUse at lists.publicknowledge.org >http://lists.publicknowledge.org/mailman/listinfo/lawfuluse > >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >The ASCLA Membership List is the official electronic discussion list >of the Association of Specialized and Cooperative Library Agencies, >a division of the American Library Association. The list's address >is ASCLA-l at ala.org. When posting messages to this discussion list, >please be sure they are sent from the e-mail address recorded in >your member profile. Messages intended for distribution to everyone >on the discussion list should be sent to ASCLA-l at ala.org. When >responding to an individual please reply to that individual in order >to reduce unnecessary e-mail traffic for others on the discussion list. > >PLEASE NOTE: When sending commands to the list--to unsubscribe, for >instance--you need to use the address of the server, not the list. >The server address is sympa at ala.org. Please read the instructions >below carefully, with this note in mind. > >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >LIST OWNER(s) >If you have questions or problems, contact the discussion list owner >at dvicha at ala.org. > >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >TO MANAGE YOUR ASCLA LIST SUBSCRIPTION > >Please go to http://lists.ala.org and signup to manage your subscription. >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >UNSUBSCRIBING > >Should you wish to unsubscribe from this list, simply send a message >to sympa at ala.org. Include the "unsubscribe" command in the body of >the message, as follows: > >unsubscribe ASCLA-l >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >Version: 8.5.427 / Virus Database: 270.14.110/2568 - Release Date: >12/16/09 08:02:00 > > >__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus >signature database 4694 (20091216) __________ > >The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > >http://www.eset.com From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Thu Dec 17 15:01:31 2009 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2009 07:01:31 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] Blind Paralegal Looking for Work...Yet Again In-Reply-To: References: <021701ca7d94$dbdbb000$93931000$@com> Message-ID: This strategy definitely works. As a freelancer I have used it successfully. It sometimes takes time especially with the current economic conditions where operating and trial costs are a significant factor. It sometimes takes several contacts reminding the attorney that you are available and willing to work. Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal 1237 P Street Fresno ca 93721 559-266-9237 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ben Karpilow" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Wednesday, December 16, 2009 2:35 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Blind Paralegal Looking for Work...Yet Again > I'm a big fan of networking. If you know any lawyers socially, start with > them. If you have friends or family in the area, ask them whether they > know any lawyers, then contact those lawyers as a friend or relative of > whoever it was that mentioned their name. This will create added pressure > to give you the time of day since there's a personal connection involved. > Then, keep contacting those lawyers, ask them who they know, who they can > refer you to, etc. You may even want to consider doing some volunteer work > so people can see the quality of your work without going out of pocket. > Then, once they see your quality, and that you're capable of doing the > job, they may feel more inclined to offer you steady, paying work. These > are just suggestions, and I hope they help. Keep plugging away and hang > in there. Sincerely, > > Ben Karpilow > From: "WB" > To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" > Sent: Tuesday, December 15, 2009 6:42 AM > Subject: [blindlaw] Blind Paralegal Looking for Work...Yet Again > > >> Hi Folks! I hope everyone is doing well. >> >> >> >> I've placed some postings on here in months past asking for advice on how >> to >> find work as a blind paralegal. I've taken most of the suggestions I've >> received to no avail. >> >> >> >> I've been on interviews and through trial and error, figured that I would >> take my laptop to explain how the assistive technology works. I've taken >> the suggestions of how to set up a freelance business with no luck. >> >> >> >> Is anyone else having this problem? I could really use some tangible, >> effective help. I'm drowning here. >> >> >> >> Thanks for any help. >> >> >> >> Will >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/benkarpilow%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Thu Dec 17 15:04:03 2009 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2009 07:04:03 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] Blind Paralegal Looking for Work...Yet Again In-Reply-To: <05ae01ca7ea0$5528e110$ff7aa330$@com> References: <021701ca7d94$dbdbb000$93931000$@com> <05ae01ca7ea0$5528e110$ff7aa330$@com> Message-ID: <2CF8339CC0D7418992F168B1058DF5BB@spike> Focus on solo practitioners in fields of law that you have expertise or interest in. I get my referrals predominantly from solo practitioners that do not require the services of a paralegal on a regular basis. Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal 1237 P Street Fresno ca 93721 559-266-9237 ----- Original Message ----- From: "WB" To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Sent: Wednesday, December 16, 2009 2:37 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Blind Paralegal Looking for Work...Yet Again > Hi Ben! > > Thanks so much for those suggestions. I've been plugging away at those > quite a bit. Smile! > > I am part of a paralegal association and have contacted some attorneys and > done some volunteer work at some of the legal clinics we have here. > > I keep running into the same problem...either there is not enough work to > outsource or they do not outsource period. > > I'm still trudging along with this though. Hopefully something will come > along soon. > > Will > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of Ben Karpilow > Sent: Wednesday, December 16, 2009 4:36 PM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Blind Paralegal Looking for Work...Yet Again > > I'm a big fan of networking. If you know any lawyers socially, start with > them. If you have friends or family in the area, ask them whether they > know > any lawyers, then contact those lawyers as a friend or relative of whoever > it was that mentioned their name. This will create added pressure to give > you the time of day since there's a personal connection involved. Then, > keep > > contacting those lawyers, ask them who they know, who they can refer you > to, > > etc. You may even want to consider doing some volunteer work so people can > see the quality of your work without going out of pocket. Then, once they > see your quality, and that you're capable of doing the job, they may feel > more inclined to offer you steady, paying work. These are just > suggestions, > and I hope they help. Keep plugging away and hang in there. Sincerely, > > Ben Karpilow > From: "WB" > To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" > Sent: Tuesday, December 15, 2009 6:42 AM > Subject: [blindlaw] Blind Paralegal Looking for Work...Yet Again > > >> Hi Folks! I hope everyone is doing well. >> >> >> >> I've placed some postings on here in months past asking for advice on how >> to >> find work as a blind paralegal. I've taken most of the suggestions I've >> received to no avail. >> >> >> >> I've been on interviews and through trial and error, figured that I would >> take my laptop to explain how the assistive technology works. I've taken >> the suggestions of how to set up a freelance business with no luck. >> >> >> >> Is anyone else having this problem? I could really use some tangible, >> effective help. I'm drowning here. >> >> >> >> Thanks for any help. >> >> >> >> Will >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/benkarpilow%40gmai > l.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniverse08%40gma > il.com > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net From cathrynisfinally at verizon.net Fri Dec 18 09:05:16 2009 From: cathrynisfinally at verizon.net (Cathryn Bonnette) Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2009 04:05:16 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] DVA Dispute Resolution Program Manager Breaches Confidentiality Message-ID: <63BAD34531454447AD59B310A6BA2AB2@14bd0130080a469> All: A sum of events follows in my federal employment. I will be very appreciative of ideas you may wish to offer. Thanks in advance for your time. I've been an Alternative Dispute Resolution, ADR, Specialist at the Department of Veterans Affairs, DVA for 3 years next March. I'm experiencing ongoing retaliation in a hostile environment, and trying to tolerate it to remain employed and achieve career status. The situation is now intolerable I was recruited into a Schedule A, (disability related hiring authority), and moved from California to Washington DC 3/07. I was given opportunities above my grade level, GS-11, within the first 6 months, completed assignments successfully and promoted to GS-12 in 3/08. In 5/08 a manager was promoted to become my direct supervisor. Days before her promotion was finalized, I asked my current boss, the Deputy Assistant Secretary, DAS for a transfer since I had experienced this manager's verbal abuse and discriminatory treatment from the start of the application process. The DAS assured me the manager would not bother me but denied my request. In the next rating period after my promotion, the manager rated me as "needs improvement'". In 12/08 the oral threats of termination at any time began coming from the manager with no guidance, counseling, etc. and I filed an EEO Complaint in 1/09. The manager terminated me in 2/09. I appealed to the Secretary of VA, and his Chief of Staff, John Gingrage, stated "We will make this right." The termination was reversed, but I was placed back in the same office under the same manager. I was given to understand it was a "take it or leave it" proposition. I resumed work but the same pattern continued with the set up for failure becoming more blatant. I hired Gebhardt and Assoc. to represent me in the EEO process. As my complaint moved to the formal stage, the manager placed me on a Plan to Improve Performance, PIP in 7/09, required me to change software from what I had used, and team members continued to use, increased my work load and added unfamiliar assignments . The manager also designated an incompetent reader/sighted assistance and has ignored all my communications of ineffective reasonable accommodation. 11/09 she reported I failed the PIP and proposed my removal. We are preparing a response given a deadline of 12/24/09. Yesterday as the manager and I discussed my assignments and I asked for clarification on a change to my performance standard she made lest week that ensures my failure, the ombudsman walked into the meeting and I agreed to spend 15 minutes articulating the issue to him. At that point the manager said, "Well, I don't think I'm speaking out of turn, but- "and proceeded to disclose that I was on a PIP, had failed the PIP, and she had proposed my removal. I have never discussed my personnel history with team members or other employees. I confronted the manager with the breach of my confidential records and observed as she rationalized her conduct stating that the ombudsman is acting to resolve a dispute, and the information was relevant to him- as though discussion of any performance question with this manager must include the ombudsman and my agreement to meet with him a few minutes gave the manager license to disclose my confidential record. I was unable to concentrate on work due to my own experience of shock and the manager's continued oral harassment as she repeatedly entered my office through the remainder of the day. I guess the only way to get away from her is to take sick leave today and Monday to determine next steps. I am very close to achieving career status- March 5 2010. I believe this manager intends to ensure I never accomplish it, and that her determination to be rid of me is of utmost importance to her. Meanwhile it is difficult for me to decide a best course to take at present. Again, thanks for listening. Cathryn Bonnette (cathrynisfinally at verizon.net) From DFrye at nfb.org Fri Dec 18 13:57:56 2009 From: DFrye at nfb.org (Frye, Dan) Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2009 08:57:56 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] DVA Dispute Resolution Program Manager BreachesConfidentiality In-Reply-To: <63BAD34531454447AD59B310A6BA2AB2@14bd0130080a469> Message-ID: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6B01C89BD2@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local> Cathryn: During my years as a Federal employee (I'm no longer serving in this capacity), I served as a union representative. Consequently, I have a variety of experiences that I can share with you that could prove helpful in resolving your situation. Give me a call or write privately (my contact details are below) if you wish to communicate. In the interim, follow your current course of action. Get your appeal filed, continue doing your job, document your efforts at resolution, and minimize your verbal, undocumented communication with your manager to instances of absolute necessity and preferably limit conversation with her to circumstances in the presence of reliable others. Stay strong while you're fighting the system because you're always at a disadvantage if somebody with authority over you has decided to target your performance. You either have to make your way through the process of acquitting yourself or decide to leave. If you've chosen to try and stay, you seem to be doing what you must. Finally, begin discretely looking for other employment opportunities so that you have options if matters become intolerable or a decision on the merits of your EEO and other complaints are not favorable. I know nothing about the substantive merits of your case, but these are my superficial first thoughts. Write or call if You'd like to discuss this further. Dan Frye -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Cathryn Bonnette Sent: Friday, December 18, 2009 4:05 AM To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: [blindlaw] DVA Dispute Resolution Program Manager BreachesConfidentiality All: A sum of events follows in my federal employment. I will be very appreciative of ideas you may wish to offer. Thanks in advance for your time. I've been an Alternative Dispute Resolution, ADR, Specialist at the Department of Veterans Affairs, DVA for 3 years next March. I'm experiencing ongoing retaliation in a hostile environment, and trying to tolerate it to remain employed and achieve career status. The situation is now intolerable I was recruited into a Schedule A, (disability related hiring authority), and moved from California to Washington DC 3/07. I was given opportunities above my grade level, GS-11, within the first 6 months, completed assignments successfully and promoted to GS-12 in 3/08. In 5/08 a manager was promoted to become my direct supervisor. Days before her promotion was finalized, I asked my current boss, the Deputy Assistant Secretary, DAS for a transfer since I had experienced this manager's verbal abuse and discriminatory treatment from the start of the application process. The DAS assured me the manager would not bother me but denied my request. In the next rating period after my promotion, the manager rated me as "needs improvement'". In 12/08 the oral threats of termination at any time began coming from the manager with no guidance, counseling, etc. and I filed an EEO Complaint in 1/09. The manager terminated me in 2/09. I appealed to the Secretary of VA, and his Chief of Staff, John Gingrage, stated "We will make this right." The termination was reversed, but I was placed back in the same office under the same manager. I was given to understand it was a "take it or leave it" proposition. I resumed work but the same pattern continued with the set up for failure becoming more blatant. I hired Gebhardt and Assoc. to represent me in the EEO process. As my complaint moved to the formal stage, the manager placed me on a Plan to Improve Performance, PIP in 7/09, required me to change software from what I had used, and team members continued to use, increased my work load and added unfamiliar assignments . The manager also designated an incompetent reader/sighted assistance and has ignored all my communications of ineffective reasonable accommodation. 11/09 she reported I failed the PIP and proposed my removal. We are preparing a response given a deadline of 12/24/09. Yesterday as the manager and I discussed my assignments and I asked for clarification on a change to my performance standard she made lest week that ensures my failure, the ombudsman walked into the meeting and I agreed to spend 15 minutes articulating the issue to him. At that point the manager said, "Well, I don't think I'm speaking out of turn, but- "and proceeded to disclose that I was on a PIP, had failed the PIP, and she had proposed my removal. I have never discussed my personnel history with team members or other employees. I confronted the manager with the breach of my confidential records and observed as she rationalized her conduct stating that the ombudsman is acting to resolve a dispute, and the information was relevant to him- as though discussion of any performance question with this manager must include the ombudsman and my agreement to meet with him a few minutes gave the manager license to disclose my confidential record. I was unable to concentrate on work due to my own experience of shock and the manager's continued oral harassment as she repeatedly entered my office through the remainder of the day. I guess the only way to get away from her is to take sick leave today and Monday to determine next steps. I am very close to achieving career status- March 5 2010. I believe this manager intends to ensure I never accomplish it, and that her determination to be rid of me is of utmost importance to her. Meanwhile it is difficult for me to decide a best course to take at present. Again, thanks for listening. Cathryn Bonnette (cathrynisfinally at verizon.net) _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dfrye%40nfb.or g From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov Fri Dec 18 16:23:46 2009 From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel) Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2009 10:23:46 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] FW: Nominate a Talented Lawyer with a Disability at Your Firm for ABA Lawyer Spotlight Message-ID: ________________________________ From: ABA Commission on Mental and Physical Disability Law [mailto:cmpdl at abanet.org] Sent: Friday, December 18, 2009 3:55 AM To: Nightingale, Noel Subject: Nominate a Talented Lawyer with a Disability at Your Firm for ABA Lawyer Spotlight If you cannot view this e-mail, please visit: http://www.abanet.org/disability/spotlight/ad2.html. Nominate a talented lawyer with a disability for the ABA LAWYER SPOTLIGHT Chosen candidates, along with their affiliated employers, will appear on our website! [http://www.abanet.org/disability/images/logo.gif] Each month, the American Bar Association Commission on Mental and Physical Disability Law highlights an attorney with a mental, physical, or sensory disability who has demonstrated great legal skill and talent. These individuals are role models and leaders within the legal community. If you know someone who should be given the Spotlight, please fill out this nomination form. Self-nominations are allowed. Past recipients include: Claudia L. Gordon (January 2009): As a senior policy advisor for the Department of Homeland Security (DHS), Office for Civil Rights and Civil Liberties, Ms. Gordon provides advice and technical assistance to the leadership and components of DHS that are geared towards implementation and enforcement of disability civil rights laws. Doug Heir (November 2008): A world-class athlete and gold-medal paralympian, Mr. Heir draws on his knowledge and experience from dealing with his disability, as well as his legal training, as he travels the world to deliver motivational speeches. Isaac J. Lidsky (September 2008): In addition to clerking for the U.S. Supreme Court, Mr. Lidsky is founder, chairman, and president of Hope for Vision, a nonprofit that helps raise awareness and funding for treatments and cures for blinding diseases. Andrew J. Imparato (April 2008): As president and CEO of the American Association of People with Disabilities (AAPD), Mr. Imparato advances a cause he cares passionately about while also mitigating the effects of his disability. SIGN OUR PLEDGE FOR CHANGE! The Commission is promoting "Disability Diversity in the Legal Profession: A Pledge for Change," a one-page pledge for legal employers to sign. ________________________________ Your e-mail address will only be used within the ABA and its entities. We do not sell or rent e-mail addresses to anyone outside the ABA. Update your profile | Unsubscribe | Privacy Policy American Bar Association | 321 N Clark | Chicago, IL 60654 | 1-800-285-2221 From cathrynisfinally at verizon.net Fri Dec 18 20:50:04 2009 From: cathrynisfinally at verizon.net (Cathryn Bonnette) Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2009 15:50:04 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] DVA Dispute Resolution Program ManagerBreachesConfidentiality In-Reply-To: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6B01C89BD2@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local> References: <63BAD34531454447AD59B310A6BA2AB2@14bd0130080a469> <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6B01C89BD2@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local> Message-ID: Dan: Thanks for responding. I found your e-mail, but not a phone #. If you are open to discussing- my # is 703-553-0477. Interested to hear your input. Cathryn -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Frye, Dan Sent: Friday, December 18, 2009 8:58 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] DVA Dispute Resolution Program ManagerBreachesConfidentiality Cathryn: During my years as a Federal employee (I'm no longer serving in this capacity), I served as a union representative. Consequently, I have a variety of experiences that I can share with you that could prove helpful in resolving your situation. Give me a call or write privately (my contact details are below) if you wish to communicate. In the interim, follow your current course of action. Get your appeal filed, continue doing your job, document your efforts at resolution, and minimize your verbal, undocumented communication with your manager to instances of absolute necessity and preferably limit conversation with her to circumstances in the presence of reliable others. Stay strong while you're fighting the system because you're always at a disadvantage if somebody with authority over you has decided to target your performance. You either have to make your way through the process of acquitting yourself or decide to leave. If you've chosen to try and stay, you seem to be doing what you must. Finally, begin discretely looking for other employment opportunities so that you have options if matters become intolerable or a decision on the merits of your EEO and other complaints are not favorable. I know nothing about the substantive merits of your case, but these are my superficial first thoughts. Write or call if You'd like to discuss this further. Dan Frye -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Cathryn Bonnette Sent: Friday, December 18, 2009 4:05 AM To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: [blindlaw] DVA Dispute Resolution Program Manager BreachesConfidentiality All: A sum of events follows in my federal employment. I will be very appreciative of ideas you may wish to offer. Thanks in advance for your time. I've been an Alternative Dispute Resolution, ADR, Specialist at the Department of Veterans Affairs, DVA for 3 years next March. I'm experiencing ongoing retaliation in a hostile environment, and trying to tolerate it to remain employed and achieve career status. The situation is now intolerable I was recruited into a Schedule A, (disability related hiring authority), and moved from California to Washington DC 3/07. I was given opportunities above my grade level, GS-11, within the first 6 months, completed assignments successfully and promoted to GS-12 in 3/08. In 5/08 a manager was promoted to become my direct supervisor. Days before her promotion was finalized, I asked my current boss, the Deputy Assistant Secretary, DAS for a transfer since I had experienced this manager's verbal abuse and discriminatory treatment from the start of the application process. The DAS assured me the manager would not bother me but denied my request. In the next rating period after my promotion, the manager rated me as "needs improvement'". In 12/08 the oral threats of termination at any time began coming from the manager with no guidance, counseling, etc. and I filed an EEO Complaint in 1/09. The manager terminated me in 2/09. I appealed to the Secretary of VA, and his Chief of Staff, John Gingrage, stated "We will make this right." The termination was reversed, but I was placed back in the same office under the same manager. I was given to understand it was a "take it or leave it" proposition. I resumed work but the same pattern continued with the set up for failure becoming more blatant. I hired Gebhardt and Assoc. to represent me in the EEO process. As my complaint moved to the formal stage, the manager placed me on a Plan to Improve Performance, PIP in 7/09, required me to change software from what I had used, and team members continued to use, increased my work load and added unfamiliar assignments . The manager also designated an incompetent reader/sighted assistance and has ignored all my communications of ineffective reasonable accommodation. 11/09 she reported I failed the PIP and proposed my removal. We are preparing a response given a deadline of 12/24/09. Yesterday as the manager and I discussed my assignments and I asked for clarification on a change to my performance standard she made lest week that ensures my failure, the ombudsman walked into the meeting and I agreed to spend 15 minutes articulating the issue to him. At that point the manager said, "Well, I don't think I'm speaking out of turn, but- "and proceeded to disclose that I was on a PIP, had failed the PIP, and she had proposed my removal. I have never discussed my personnel history with team members or other employees. I confronted the manager with the breach of my confidential records and observed as she rationalized her conduct stating that the ombudsman is acting to resolve a dispute, and the information was relevant to him- as though discussion of any performance question with this manager must include the ombudsman and my agreement to meet with him a few minutes gave the manager license to disclose my confidential record. I was unable to concentrate on work due to my own experience of shock and the manager's continued oral harassment as she repeatedly entered my office through the remainder of the day. I guess the only way to get away from her is to take sick leave today and Monday to determine next steps. I am very close to achieving career status- March 5 2010. I believe this manager intends to ensure I never accomplish it, and that her determination to be rid of me is of utmost importance to her. Meanwhile it is difficult for me to decide a best course to take at present. Again, thanks for listening. Cathryn Bonnette (cathrynisfinally at verizon.net) _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dfrye%40nfb.or g _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cathrynisfinally%4 0verizon.net No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.427 / Virus Database: 270.14.105/2562 - Release Date: 12/18/09 07:35:00 From dfrye at nfb.org Sat Dec 19 02:27:27 2009 From: dfrye at nfb.org (Dan Frye) Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2009 21:27:27 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] DVA Dispute Resolution ProgramManagerBreachesConfidentiality Message-ID: Kathryn: My contact details are below. Please call over the weekend. Reaching me on my mobile will be easiest, but my home number is also (410) 243-1818. I have a chapter meeting in the morning, but I will be otherwise free. Daniel B. Frye Office: (410) 659-9314, Ext 2208 Mobile: (410) 241-7006 Note: This message has been issued remotely from the BrailleNote. > ----- Original Message ----- >From: "Cathryn Bonnette" To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Date sent: Fri, 18 Dec 2009 15:50:04 -0500 >Subject: Re: [blindlaw] DVA Dispute Resolution ProgramManagerBreachesConfidentiality >Dan: >Thanks for responding. I found your e-mail, but not a phone #. If you are >open to discussing- my # is 703-553-0477. Interested to hear your input. >Cathryn >-----Original Message----- >From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >Behalf Of Frye, Dan >Sent: Friday, December 18, 2009 8:58 AM >To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >Subject: Re: [blindlaw] DVA Dispute Resolution Program >ManagerBreachesConfidentiality >Cathryn: >During my years as a Federal employee (I'm no longer serving in this >capacity), I served as a union representative. Consequently, I have a >variety of experiences that I can share with you that could prove >helpful in resolving your situation. Give me a call or write privately >(my contact details are below) if you wish to communicate. In the >interim, follow your current course of action. Get your appeal filed, >continue doing your job, document your efforts at resolution, and >minimize your verbal, undocumented communication with your manager to >instances of absolute necessity and preferably limit conversation with >her to circumstances in the presence of reliable others. Stay strong >while you're fighting the system because you're always at a disadvantage >if somebody with authority over you has decided to target your >performance. You either have to make your way through the process of >acquitting yourself or decide to leave. If you've chosen to try and >stay, you seem to be doing what you must. Finally, begin discretely >looking for other employment opportunities so that you have options if >matters become intolerable or a decision on the merits of your EEO and >other complaints are not favorable. I know nothing about the substantive >merits of your case, but these are my superficial first thoughts. Write >or call if You'd like to discuss this further. >Dan Frye >-----Original Message----- >From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >On Behalf Of Cathryn Bonnette >Sent: Friday, December 18, 2009 4:05 AM >To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' >Subject: [blindlaw] DVA Dispute Resolution Program Manager >BreachesConfidentiality >All: >A sum of events follows in my federal employment. I will be very >appreciative of ideas you may wish to offer. Thanks in advance for your >time. >I've been an Alternative Dispute Resolution, ADR, Specialist at the >Department of Veterans Affairs, DVA for 3 years next March. I'm >experiencing ongoing retaliation in a hostile environment, and trying to >tolerate it to remain employed and achieve career status. The situation >is now intolerable >I was recruited into a Schedule A, (disability related hiring >authority), and moved from California to Washington DC 3/07. I was >given opportunities above my grade level, GS-11, within the first 6 >months, completed assignments successfully and promoted to GS-12 in >3/08. In 5/08 a manager was promoted to become my direct supervisor. >Days before her promotion was finalized, I asked my current boss, the >Deputy Assistant Secretary, DAS for a transfer since I had experienced >this manager's verbal abuse and discriminatory treatment from the start >of the application process. The DAS assured me the manager would not >bother me but denied my request. In the next rating period after my >promotion, the manager rated me as "needs improvement'". In 12/08 the >oral threats of termination at any time began coming from the manager >with no guidance, counseling, etc. and I filed an >EEO Complaint in 1/09. The manager terminated me in 2/09. I appealed >to >the Secretary of VA, and his Chief of Staff, John Gingrage, stated "We >will make this right." The termination was reversed, but I was placed >back in the same office under the same manager. I was given to >understand it was a "take it or leave it" proposition. >I resumed work but the same pattern continued with the set up for >failure >becoming more blatant. I hired Gebhardt and Assoc. to represent me in >the >EEO process. As my complaint moved to the formal stage, the manager >placed me on a Plan to Improve Performance, PIP in 7/09, required me to >change software from what I had used, and team members continued to use, >increased my work load and added unfamiliar assignments . The manager >also designated an incompetent reader/sighted assistance and has ignored >all my communications of ineffective reasonable accommodation. 11/09 she >reported I failed the PIP and proposed my removal. >We are preparing a response given a deadline of 12/24/09. >Yesterday as the manager and I discussed my assignments and I asked for >clarification on a change to my performance standard she made lest week >that ensures my failure, the ombudsman walked into the meeting and I >agreed to spend 15 minutes articulating the issue to him. At that point >the manager said, "Well, I don't think I'm speaking out of turn, but- >"and proceeded to disclose that I was on a PIP, had failed the PIP, and >she had proposed my removal. I have never discussed my personnel >history with team members or other employees. I confronted the manager >with the breach of my confidential records and observed as she >rationalized her conduct stating that the ombudsman is acting to resolve >a dispute, and the information was relevant to him- as though discussion >of any performance question with this manager must include the ombudsman >and my agreement to meet with him a few minutes gave the manager license >to disclose my confidential record. >I was unable to concentrate on work due to my own experience of shock >and the manager's continued oral harassment as she repeatedly entered my >office through the remainder of the day. I guess the only way to get >away from her is to take sick leave today and Monday to determine next >steps. I am very close to achieving career status- March 5 2010. I >believe this manager intends to ensure I never accomplish it, and that >her determination to be rid of me is of utmost importance to her. >Meanwhile it is difficult for me to decide a best course to take at >present. >Again, thanks for listening. >Cathryn Bonnette (cathrynisfinally at verizon.net) >_______________________________________________ >blindlaw mailing list >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >blindlaw: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dfrye%4 0nfb.or >g >_______________________________________________ >blindlaw mailing list >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >blindlaw: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cathryn isfinally%4 >0verizon.net >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >Version: 8.5.427 / Virus Database: 270.14.105/2562 - Release Date: 12/18/09 >07:35:00 >_______________________________________________ >blindlaw mailing list >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dfrye%4 0nfb.org From dandrews at visi.com Sat Dec 19 04:35:46 2009 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2009 22:35:46 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] White House Fellows program Message-ID: > >President Obama and Mrs. Obama would like your help to encourage >talented leaders with disabilities to apply to the White House >Fellows program. > > Obviously, we are committed to inclusion of people with > disabilities but we need you all to spread the word and help > identify qualified candidates. > > Please very carefully review the type of candidate that should > apply to this type of program. > > > >The White House Fellowship is one of the nation's most prestigious >programs for leadership and public service. Each year, 11-19 >exceptional young men and women are selected to spend a year in >Washington, D.C. to gain first-hand experience in the process of >governing the nation at the highest levels of the Federal government. > > > >Candidates need to be promising young leaders who are excelling >early in their careers and are committed to leadership and public >service. Thus, this is not for students but rather for individuals >already into their careers. > > > >Attached is a letter from President and Mrs. Obama. Please share >this message with qualified applicants and/or organizations in your >network that can help identify such candidates. > > > >Learn more about the White House Fellowship >http://www.whitehouse.gov/fellows > > > >Download the application >http://www.whitehouse.gov/about/fellows/apply1 > > > > > > >The information about the program is on the website. Applicants >should follow the procedures using the on-line links above. The >deadline is February 1. > > > >__________________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: President and First Lady Obama White House Fellows Message.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 65298 bytes Desc: not available URL: From cathrynisfinally at verizon.net Sun Dec 20 15:51:42 2009 From: cathrynisfinally at verizon.net (Cathryn Bonnette) Date: Sun, 20 Dec 2009 10:51:42 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] DVA Dispute ResolutionProgramManagerBreachesConfidentiality In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Dan: I thoroughly enjoyed talking with you today. Thanks much for your time and listening ear. My contact details follow. Please use home contacts first: Home e-mail: cathrynisfinally at verizon.net Hone phone: 703-553-0477 Work contacts are not preferred at present, but here's the info: Office e-mail: Cathryn.bonnette at va.gov Office phone: 202-461-0513 Feel free to share with Fred S. as we discussed. Also, my plan is to e-mail my atty re: 1) contacting Jim Moran, and 2) trying other political moves such as Christine Griffin, NFB, and/or the media. OK, Dan, be well, and enjoy the blizzard!!!!!! -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf of Dan Frye Sent: Friday, December 18, 2009 9:27 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] DVA Dispute ResolutionProgramManagerBreachesConfidentiality Kathryn: My contact details are below. Please call over the weekend. Reaching me on my mobile will be easiest, but my home number is also (410) 243-1818. I have a chapter meeting in the morning, but I will be otherwise free. Daniel B. Frye Office: (410) 659-9314, Ext 2208 Mobile: (410) 241-7006 Note: This message has been issued remotely from the BrailleNote. > ----- Original Message ----- >From: "Cathryn Bonnette" To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Date sent: Fri, 18 Dec 2009 15:50:04 -0500 >Subject: Re: [blindlaw] DVA Dispute Resolution ProgramManagerBreachesConfidentiality >Dan: >Thanks for responding. I found your e-mail, but not a phone #. If you are >open to discussing- my # is 703-553-0477. Interested to hear your input. >Cathryn >-----Original Message----- >From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >Behalf Of Frye, Dan >Sent: Friday, December 18, 2009 8:58 AM >To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >Subject: Re: [blindlaw] DVA Dispute Resolution Program >ManagerBreachesConfidentiality >Cathryn: >During my years as a Federal employee (I'm no longer serving in this >capacity), I served as a union representative. Consequently, I have a >variety of experiences that I can share with you that could prove >helpful in resolving your situation. Give me a call or write privately >(my contact details are below) if you wish to communicate. In the >interim, follow your current course of action. Get your appeal filed, >continue doing your job, document your efforts at resolution, and >minimize your verbal, undocumented communication with your manager to >instances of absolute necessity and preferably limit conversation with >her to circumstances in the presence of reliable others. Stay strong >while you're fighting the system because you're always at a disadvantage >if somebody with authority over you has decided to target your >performance. You either have to make your way through the process of >acquitting yourself or decide to leave. If you've chosen to try and >stay, you seem to be doing what you must. Finally, begin discretely >looking for other employment opportunities so that you have options if >matters become intolerable or a decision on the merits of your EEO and >other complaints are not favorable. I know nothing about the substantive >merits of your case, but these are my superficial first thoughts. Write >or call if You'd like to discuss this further. >Dan Frye >-----Original Message----- >From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >On Behalf Of Cathryn Bonnette >Sent: Friday, December 18, 2009 4:05 AM >To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' >Subject: [blindlaw] DVA Dispute Resolution Program Manager >BreachesConfidentiality >All: >A sum of events follows in my federal employment. I will be very >appreciative of ideas you may wish to offer. Thanks in advance for your >time. >I've been an Alternative Dispute Resolution, ADR, Specialist at the >Department of Veterans Affairs, DVA for 3 years next March. I'm >experiencing ongoing retaliation in a hostile environment, and trying to >tolerate it to remain employed and achieve career status. The situation >is now intolerable >I was recruited into a Schedule A, (disability related hiring >authority), and moved from California to Washington DC 3/07. I was >given opportunities above my grade level, GS-11, within the first 6 >months, completed assignments successfully and promoted to GS-12 in >3/08. In 5/08 a manager was promoted to become my direct supervisor. >Days before her promotion was finalized, I asked my current boss, the >Deputy Assistant Secretary, DAS for a transfer since I had experienced >this manager's verbal abuse and discriminatory treatment from the start >of the application process. The DAS assured me the manager would not >bother me but denied my request. In the next rating period after my >promotion, the manager rated me as "needs improvement'". In 12/08 the >oral threats of termination at any time began coming from the manager >with no guidance, counseling, etc. and I filed an >EEO Complaint in 1/09. The manager terminated me in 2/09. I appealed >to >the Secretary of VA, and his Chief of Staff, John Gingrage, stated "We >will make this right." The termination was reversed, but I was placed >back in the same office under the same manager. I was given to >understand it was a "take it or leave it" proposition. >I resumed work but the same pattern continued with the set up for >failure >becoming more blatant. I hired Gebhardt and Assoc. to represent me in >the >EEO process. As my complaint moved to the formal stage, the manager >placed me on a Plan to Improve Performance, PIP in 7/09, required me to >change software from what I had used, and team members continued to use, >increased my work load and added unfamiliar assignments . The manager >also designated an incompetent reader/sighted assistance and has ignored >all my communications of ineffective reasonable accommodation. 11/09 she >reported I failed the PIP and proposed my removal. >We are preparing a response given a deadline of 12/24/09. >Yesterday as the manager and I discussed my assignments and I asked for >clarification on a change to my performance standard she made lest week >that ensures my failure, the ombudsman walked into the meeting and I >agreed to spend 15 minutes articulating the issue to him. At that point >the manager said, "Well, I don't think I'm speaking out of turn, but- >"and proceeded to disclose that I was on a PIP, had failed the PIP, and >she had proposed my removal. I have never discussed my personnel >history with team members or other employees. I confronted the manager >with the breach of my confidential records and observed as she >rationalized her conduct stating that the ombudsman is acting to resolve >a dispute, and the information was relevant to him- as though discussion >of any performance question with this manager must include the ombudsman >and my agreement to meet with him a few minutes gave the manager license >to disclose my confidential record. >I was unable to concentrate on work due to my own experience of shock >and the manager's continued oral harassment as she repeatedly entered my >office through the remainder of the day. I guess the only way to get >away from her is to take sick leave today and Monday to determine next >steps. I am very close to achieving career status- March 5 2010. I >believe this manager intends to ensure I never accomplish it, and that >her determination to be rid of me is of utmost importance to her. >Meanwhile it is difficult for me to decide a best course to take at >present. >Again, thanks for listening. >Cathryn Bonnette (cathrynisfinally at verizon.net) >_______________________________________________ >blindlaw mailing list >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >blindlaw: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dfrye%4 0nfb.or >g >_______________________________________________ >blindlaw mailing list >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >blindlaw: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cathryn isfinally%4 >0verizon.net >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >Version: 8.5.427 / Virus Database: 270.14.105/2562 - Release Date: 12/18/09 >07:35:00 >_______________________________________________ >blindlaw mailing list >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dfrye%4 0nfb.org _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cathrynisfinally%4 0verizon.net No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.427 / Virus Database: 270.14.105/2562 - Release Date: 12/18/09 07:35:00 From joramsey at cox.net Sun Dec 20 18:08:05 2009 From: joramsey at cox.net (John Ramsey) Date: Sun, 20 Dec 2009 13:08:05 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] DVA Dispute ResolutionProgramManagerBreachesConfidentiality In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <910E00AA0DA740309667AE4A9AEF60F6@noneeb869fea9a> Dan and Katherine, Do you want your personal contact information posted to this list? John A. Ramsey Jr., Esq. Gainesville, FL 32609 (352) 505-6642 This communication contains information that may be confidential and/or legally privileged. It is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. If you have received this communication in error, please call us at (352) 505-6642 and destroy any associated printed materials and delete the electronic material from any computer. Please be aware that any unauthorized disclosure, use or publication of this communication or the information it contains may result in criminal and/or civil liability. Due to this message being transmitted over the Internet, John Ramsey cannot assure that the messages are secure. If you are uncomfortable with such risks, you may decide not to use email to communicate with John Ramsey. Please contact us immediately at (352) 505-6642 if you decide not to use email. You must also be aware that email messages may be delayed or undelivered through circumstances beyond our control. Thank you. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Cathryn Bonnette Sent: Sunday, December 20, 2009 10:52 AM To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: Re: [blindlaw] DVA Dispute ResolutionProgramManagerBreachesConfidentiality Dan: I thoroughly enjoyed talking with you today. Thanks much for your time and listening ear. My contact details follow. Please use home contacts first: Home e-mail: cathrynisfinally at verizon.net Hone phone: 703-553-0477 Work contacts are not preferred at present, but here's the info: Office e-mail: Cathryn.bonnette at va.gov Office phone: 202-461-0513 Feel free to share with Fred S. as we discussed. Also, my plan is to e-mail my atty re: 1) contacting Jim Moran, and 2) trying other political moves such as Christine Griffin, NFB, and/or the media. OK, Dan, be well, and enjoy the blizzard!!!!!! -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf of Dan Frye Sent: Friday, December 18, 2009 9:27 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] DVA Dispute ResolutionProgramManagerBreachesConfidentiality Kathryn: My contact details are below. Please call over the weekend. Reaching me on my mobile will be easiest, but my home number is also (410) 243-1818. I have a chapter meeting in the morning, but I will be otherwise free. Daniel B. Frye Office: (410) 659-9314, Ext 2208 Mobile: (410) 241-7006 Note: This message has been issued remotely from the BrailleNote. > ----- Original Message ----- >From: "Cathryn Bonnette" To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Fri, 18 Dec 2009 15:50:04 -0500 >Subject: Re: [blindlaw] DVA Dispute Resolution ProgramManagerBreachesConfidentiality >Dan: >Thanks for responding. I found your e-mail, but not a phone #. If you are >open to discussing- my # is 703-553-0477. Interested to hear your input. >Cathryn >-----Original Message----- >From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >Behalf Of Frye, Dan >Sent: Friday, December 18, 2009 8:58 AM >To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >Subject: Re: [blindlaw] DVA Dispute Resolution Program >ManagerBreachesConfidentiality >Cathryn: >During my years as a Federal employee (I'm no longer serving in this >capacity), I served as a union representative. Consequently, I have a >variety of experiences that I can share with you that could prove >helpful in resolving your situation. Give me a call or write privately >(my contact details are below) if you wish to communicate. In the >interim, follow your current course of action. Get your appeal filed, >continue doing your job, document your efforts at resolution, and >minimize your verbal, undocumented communication with your manager to >instances of absolute necessity and preferably limit conversation with >her to circumstances in the presence of reliable others. Stay strong >while you're fighting the system because you're always at a disadvantage >if somebody with authority over you has decided to target your >performance. You either have to make your way through the process of >acquitting yourself or decide to leave. If you've chosen to try and >stay, you seem to be doing what you must. Finally, begin discretely >looking for other employment opportunities so that you have options if >matters become intolerable or a decision on the merits of your EEO and >other complaints are not favorable. I know nothing about the substantive >merits of your case, but these are my superficial first thoughts. Write >or call if You'd like to discuss this further. >Dan Frye >-----Original Message----- >From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >On Behalf Of Cathryn Bonnette >Sent: Friday, December 18, 2009 4:05 AM >To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' >Subject: [blindlaw] DVA Dispute Resolution Program Manager >BreachesConfidentiality >All: >A sum of events follows in my federal employment. I will be very >appreciative of ideas you may wish to offer. Thanks in advance for your >time. >I've been an Alternative Dispute Resolution, ADR, Specialist at the >Department of Veterans Affairs, DVA for 3 years next March. I'm >experiencing ongoing retaliation in a hostile environment, and trying to >tolerate it to remain employed and achieve career status. The situation >is now intolerable >I was recruited into a Schedule A, (disability related hiring >authority), and moved from California to Washington DC 3/07. I was >given opportunities above my grade level, GS-11, within the first 6 >months, completed assignments successfully and promoted to GS-12 in >3/08. In 5/08 a manager was promoted to become my direct supervisor. >Days before her promotion was finalized, I asked my current boss, the >Deputy Assistant Secretary, DAS for a transfer since I had experienced >this manager's verbal abuse and discriminatory treatment from the start >of the application process. The DAS assured me the manager would not >bother me but denied my request. In the next rating period after my >promotion, the manager rated me as "needs improvement'". In 12/08 the >oral threats of termination at any time began coming from the manager >with no guidance, counseling, etc. and I filed an >EEO Complaint in 1/09. The manager terminated me in 2/09. I appealed >to >the Secretary of VA, and his Chief of Staff, John Gingrage, stated "We >will make this right." The termination was reversed, but I was placed >back in the same office under the same manager. I was given to >understand it was a "take it or leave it" proposition. >I resumed work but the same pattern continued with the set up for >failure >becoming more blatant. I hired Gebhardt and Assoc. to represent me in >the >EEO process. As my complaint moved to the formal stage, the manager >placed me on a Plan to Improve Performance, PIP in 7/09, required me to >change software from what I had used, and team members continued to use, >increased my work load and added unfamiliar assignments . The manager >also designated an incompetent reader/sighted assistance and has ignored >all my communications of ineffective reasonable accommodation. 11/09 she >reported I failed the PIP and proposed my removal. >We are preparing a response given a deadline of 12/24/09. >Yesterday as the manager and I discussed my assignments and I asked for >clarification on a change to my performance standard she made lest week >that ensures my failure, the ombudsman walked into the meeting and I >agreed to spend 15 minutes articulating the issue to him. At that point >the manager said, "Well, I don't think I'm speaking out of turn, but- >"and proceeded to disclose that I was on a PIP, had failed the PIP, and >she had proposed my removal. I have never discussed my personnel >history with team members or other employees. I confronted the manager >with the breach of my confidential records and observed as she >rationalized her conduct stating that the ombudsman is acting to resolve >a dispute, and the information was relevant to him- as though discussion >of any performance question with this manager must include the ombudsman >and my agreement to meet with him a few minutes gave the manager license >to disclose my confidential record. >I was unable to concentrate on work due to my own experience of shock >and the manager's continued oral harassment as she repeatedly entered my >office through the remainder of the day. I guess the only way to get >away from her is to take sick leave today and Monday to determine next >steps. I am very close to achieving career status- March 5 2010. I >believe this manager intends to ensure I never accomplish it, and that >her determination to be rid of me is of utmost importance to her. >Meanwhile it is difficult for me to decide a best course to take at >present. >Again, thanks for listening. >Cathryn Bonnette (cathrynisfinally at verizon.net) >_______________________________________________ >blindlaw mailing list >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >blindlaw: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dfrye%4 0nfb.or >g >_______________________________________________ >blindlaw mailing list >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >blindlaw: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cathryn isfinally%4 >0verizon.net >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >Version: 8.5.427 / Virus Database: 270.14.105/2562 - Release Date: 12/18/09 >07:35:00 >_______________________________________________ >blindlaw mailing list >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dfrye%4 0nfb.org _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cathrynisfinally%4 0verizon.net No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.427 / Virus Database: 270.14.105/2562 - Release Date: 12/18/09 07:35:00 _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joramsey%40cox.net From dfrye at nfb.org Sun Dec 20 19:15:47 2009 From: dfrye at nfb.org (Dan Frye) Date: Sun, 20 Dec 2009 14:15:47 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] DVA DisputeResolutionProgramManagerBreachesConfidentiality Message-ID: John: I have no problem with my contact details being posted to this list. Most on this list are friends or acquaintances, all interested in promoting the practice of law with blind attorneys, helping blind people with blindness-related legal challenges, or circulating information of interest to the NFB. So, I have no problem with posting my data to the list? If I didn't want it posted, I'd not include it in my email. Is it proving bothersome or representing too much traffic? Daniel B. Frye Office: (410) 659-9314, Ext 2208 Mobile: (410) 241-7006 Note: This message has been issued remotely from the BrailleNote. > ----- Original Message ----- >From: "John Ramsey" To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Date sent: Sun, 20 Dec 2009 13:08:05 -0500 >Subject: Re: [blindlaw] DVA DisputeResolutionProgramManagerBreachesConfidentiality >Dan and Katherine, >Do you want your personal contact information posted to this list? >John A. Ramsey Jr., Esq. >Gainesville, FL 32609 >(352) 505-6642 >This communication contains information that may be confidential and/or >legally privileged. It is intended only for the use of the individual or >entity to which it is addressed. If you have received this communication in >error, please call us at (352) 505-6642 and destroy any associated printed >materials and delete the electronic material from any computer. Please be >aware that any unauthorized disclosure, use or publication of this >communication or the information it contains may result in criminal and/or >civil liability. Due to this message being transmitted over the Internet, >John Ramsey cannot assure that the messages are secure. If you are >uncomfortable with such risks, you may decide not to use email to >communicate with John Ramsey. Please contact us immediately at (352) >505-6642 if you decide not to use email. You must also be aware that email >messages may be delayed or undelivered through circumstances beyond our >control. Thank you. >-----Original Message----- >From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >Behalf Of Cathryn Bonnette >Sent: Sunday, December 20, 2009 10:52 AM >To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' >Subject: Re: [blindlaw] DVA Dispute >ResolutionProgramManagerBreachesConfidentiality >Dan: >I thoroughly enjoyed talking with you today. Thanks much for your time and >listening ear. My contact details follow. >Please use home contacts first: >Home e-mail: cathrynisfinally at verizon.net >Hone phone: 703-553-0477 >Work contacts are not preferred at present, but here's the info: Office >e-mail: Cathryn.bonnette at va.gov Office phone: 202-461-0513 Feel free to >share with Fred S. as we discussed. >Also, my plan is to e-mail my atty re: 1) contacting Jim Moran, and 2) >trying other political moves such as Christine Griffin, NFB, and/or the >media. >OK, Dan, be well, and enjoy the blizzard!!!!!! >-----Original Message----- >From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >Behalf of Dan Frye >Sent: Friday, December 18, 2009 9:27 PM >To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >Subject: Re: [blindlaw] DVA Dispute >ResolutionProgramManagerBreachesConfidentiality >Kathryn: >My contact details are below. Please call over the weekend. >Reaching me on my mobile will be easiest, but my home number is >also (410) 243-1818. I have a chapter meeting in the morning, >but I will be otherwise free. >Daniel B. Frye >Office: (410) 659-9314, Ext 2208 >Mobile: (410) 241-7006 >Note: This message has been issued remotely from the BrailleNote. >> ----- Original Message ----- >>From: "Cathryn Bonnette" >To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >Fri, 18 Dec 2009 15:50:04 -0500 >>Subject: Re: [blindlaw] DVA Dispute Resolution >ProgramManagerBreachesConfidentiality >>Dan: >>Thanks for responding. I found your e-mail, but not a phone #. >If you are >>open to discussing- my # is 703-553-0477. Interested to hear >your input. >>Cathryn >>-----Original Message----- >>From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >[mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>Behalf Of Frye, Dan >>Sent: Friday, December 18, 2009 8:58 AM >>To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>Subject: Re: [blindlaw] DVA Dispute Resolution Program >>ManagerBreachesConfidentiality >>Cathryn: >>During my years as a Federal employee (I'm no longer serving in >this >>capacity), I served as a union representative. Consequently, I >have a >>variety of experiences that I can share with you that could prove >>helpful in resolving your situation. Give me a call or write >privately >>(my contact details are below) if you wish to communicate. In >the >>interim, follow your current course of action. Get your appeal >filed, >>continue doing your job, document your efforts at resolution, and >>minimize your verbal, undocumented communication with your >manager to >>instances of absolute necessity and preferably limit conversation >with >>her to circumstances in the presence of reliable others. Stay >strong >>while you're fighting the system because you're always at a >disadvantage >>if somebody with authority over you has decided to target your >>performance. You either have to make your way through the >process of >>acquitting yourself or decide to leave. If you've chosen to try >and >>stay, you seem to be doing what you must. Finally, begin >discretely >>looking for other employment opportunities so that you have >options if >>matters become intolerable or a decision on the merits of your >EEO and >>other complaints are not favorable. I know nothing about the >substantive >>merits of your case, but these are my superficial first thoughts. >Write >>or call if You'd like to discuss this further. >>Dan Frye >>-----Original Message----- >>From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >[mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>On Behalf Of Cathryn Bonnette >>Sent: Friday, December 18, 2009 4:05 AM >>To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' >>Subject: [blindlaw] DVA Dispute Resolution Program Manager >>BreachesConfidentiality >>All: >>A sum of events follows in my federal employment. I will be very >>appreciative of ideas you may wish to offer. Thanks in advance >for your >>time. >>I've been an Alternative Dispute Resolution, ADR, Specialist at >the >>Department of Veterans Affairs, DVA for 3 years next March. I'm >>experiencing ongoing retaliation in a hostile environment, and >trying to >>tolerate it to remain employed and achieve career status. The >situation >>is now intolerable >>I was recruited into a Schedule A, (disability related hiring >>authority), and moved from California to Washington DC 3/07. I >was >>given opportunities above my grade level, GS-11, within the first >6 >>months, completed assignments successfully and promoted to GS-12 >in >>3/08. In 5/08 a manager was promoted to become my direct >supervisor. >>Days before her promotion was finalized, I asked my current boss, >the >>Deputy Assistant Secretary, DAS for a transfer since I had >experienced >>this manager's verbal abuse and discriminatory treatment from the >start >>of the application process. The DAS assured me the manager would >not >>bother me but denied my request. In the next rating period after >my >>promotion, the manager rated me as "needs improvement'". In >12/08 the >>oral threats of termination at any time began coming from the >manager >>with no guidance, counseling, etc. and I filed an >>EEO Complaint in 1/09. The manager terminated me in 2/09. I >appealed >>to >>the Secretary of VA, and his Chief of Staff, John Gingrage, >stated "We >>will make this right." The termination was reversed, but I was >placed >>back in the same office under the same manager. I was given to >>understand it was a "take it or leave it" proposition. >>I resumed work but the same pattern continued with the set up for >>failure >>becoming more blatant. I hired Gebhardt and Assoc. to >represent me in >>the >>EEO process. As my complaint moved to the formal stage, the >manager >>placed me on a Plan to Improve Performance, PIP in 7/09, required >me to >>change software from what I had used, and team members continued >to use, >>increased my work load and added unfamiliar assignments . The >manager >>also designated an incompetent reader/sighted assistance and has >ignored >>all my communications of ineffective reasonable accommodation. >11/09 she >>reported I failed the PIP and proposed my removal. >>We are preparing a response given a deadline of 12/24/09. >>Yesterday as the manager and I discussed my assignments and I >asked for >>clarification on a change to my performance standard she made >lest week >>that ensures my failure, the ombudsman walked into the meeting >and I >>agreed to spend 15 minutes articulating the issue to him. At >that point >>the manager said, "Well, I don't think I'm speaking out of turn, >but- >>"and proceeded to disclose that I was on a PIP, had failed the >PIP, and >>she had proposed my removal. I have never discussed my personnel >>history with team members or other employees. I confronted the >manager >>with the breach of my confidential records and observed as she >>rationalized her conduct stating that the ombudsman is acting to >resolve >>a dispute, and the information was relevant to him- as though >discussion >>of any performance question with this manager must include the >ombudsman >>and my agreement to meet with him a few minutes gave the manager >license >>to disclose my confidential record. >>I was unable to concentrate on work due to my own experience of >shock >>and the manager's continued oral harassment as she repeatedly >entered my >>office through the remainder of the day. I guess the only way to >get >>away from her is to take sick leave today and Monday to >determine next >>steps. I am very close to achieving career status- March 5 2010. >I >>believe this manager intends to ensure I never accomplish it, and >that >>her determination to be rid of me is of utmost importance to her. >>Meanwhile it is difficult for me to decide a best course to take >at >>present. >>Again, thanks for listening. >>Cathryn Bonnette (cathrynisfinally at verizon.net) >>_______________________________________________ >>blindlaw mailing list >>blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >for >>blindlaw: >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dfrye%4 >0nfb.or >>g >>_______________________________________________ >>blindlaw mailing list >>blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >for >>blindlaw: >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cathryn >isfinally%4 >>0verizon.net >>No virus found in this incoming message. >>Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>Version: 8.5.427 / Virus Database: 270.14.105/2562 - Release >Date: 12/18/09 >>07:35:00 >>_______________________________________________ >>blindlaw mailing list >>blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >for blindlaw: >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dfrye%4 >0nfb.org >_______________________________________________ >blindlaw mailing list >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >blindlaw: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cathryn isfinally%4 >0verizon.net >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >Version: 8.5.427 / Virus Database: 270.14.105/2562 - Release Date: 12/18/09 >07:35:00 >_______________________________________________ >blindlaw mailing list >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >blindlaw: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joramse y%40cox.net >_______________________________________________ >blindlaw mailing list >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dfrye%4 0nfb.org From dfrye at nfb.org Sun Dec 20 19:15:49 2009 From: dfrye at nfb.org (Dan Frye) Date: Sun, 20 Dec 2009 14:15:49 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] DVA DisputeResolutionProgramManagerBreachesConfidentiality Message-ID: Thanks, Kathryn. I've forwarded your details to Fred Schroeder to see what advocacy or political support that our Virginia affiliate might be able to offer. Good luck and enjoy your trip to North Carolina. Daniel B. Frye Office: (410) 659-9314, Ext 2208 Mobile: (410) 241-7006 Note: This message has been issued remotely from the BrailleNote. > ----- Original Message ----- >From: "Cathryn Bonnette" To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Date sent: Sun, 20 Dec 2009 10:51:42 -0500 >Subject: Re: [blindlaw] DVA DisputeResolutionProgramManagerBreachesConfidentiality >Dan: >I thoroughly enjoyed talking with you today. Thanks much for your time and >listening ear. My contact details follow. >Please use home contacts first: >Home e-mail: cathrynisfinally at verizon.net >Hone phone: 703-553-0477 >Work contacts are not preferred at present, but here's the info: >Office e-mail: Cathryn.bonnette at va.gov >Office phone: 202-461-0513 >Feel free to share with Fred S. as we discussed. >Also, my plan is to e-mail my atty re: 1) contacting Jim Moran, and 2) >trying other political moves such as Christine Griffin, NFB, and/or the >media. >OK, Dan, be well, and enjoy the blizzard!!!!!! >-----Original Message----- >From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >Behalf of Dan Frye >Sent: Friday, December 18, 2009 9:27 PM >To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >Subject: Re: [blindlaw] DVA Dispute >ResolutionProgramManagerBreachesConfidentiality >Kathryn: >My contact details are below. Please call over the weekend. >Reaching me on my mobile will be easiest, but my home number is >also (410) 243-1818. I have a chapter meeting in the morning, >but I will be otherwise free. >Daniel B. Frye >Office: (410) 659-9314, Ext 2208 >Mobile: (410) 241-7006 >Note: This message has been issued remotely from the BrailleNote. >> ----- Original Message ----- >>From: "Cathryn Bonnette" >To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >Date sent: Fri, 18 Dec 2009 15:50:04 -0500 >>Subject: Re: [blindlaw] DVA Dispute Resolution >ProgramManagerBreachesConfidentiality >>Dan: >>Thanks for responding. I found your e-mail, but not a phone #. >If you are >>open to discussing- my # is 703-553-0477. Interested to hear >your input. >>Cathryn >>-----Original Message----- >>From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >[mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>Behalf Of Frye, Dan >>Sent: Friday, December 18, 2009 8:58 AM >>To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>Subject: Re: [blindlaw] DVA Dispute Resolution Program >>ManagerBreachesConfidentiality >>Cathryn: >>During my years as a Federal employee (I'm no longer serving in >this >>capacity), I served as a union representative. Consequently, I >have a >>variety of experiences that I can share with you that could prove >>helpful in resolving your situation. Give me a call or write >privately >>(my contact details are below) if you wish to communicate. In >the >>interim, follow your current course of action. Get your appeal >filed, >>continue doing your job, document your efforts at resolution, and >>minimize your verbal, undocumented communication with your >manager to >>instances of absolute necessity and preferably limit conversation >with >>her to circumstances in the presence of reliable others. Stay >strong >>while you're fighting the system because you're always at a >disadvantage >>if somebody with authority over you has decided to target your >>performance. You either have to make your way through the >process of >>acquitting yourself or decide to leave. If you've chosen to try >and >>stay, you seem to be doing what you must. Finally, begin >discretely >>looking for other employment opportunities so that you have >options if >>matters become intolerable or a decision on the merits of your >EEO and >>other complaints are not favorable. I know nothing about the >substantive >>merits of your case, but these are my superficial first thoughts. >Write >>or call if You'd like to discuss this further. >>Dan Frye >>-----Original Message----- >>From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >[mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>On Behalf Of Cathryn Bonnette >>Sent: Friday, December 18, 2009 4:05 AM >>To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' >>Subject: [blindlaw] DVA Dispute Resolution Program Manager >>BreachesConfidentiality >>All: >>A sum of events follows in my federal employment. I will be very >>appreciative of ideas you may wish to offer. Thanks in advance >for your >>time. >>I've been an Alternative Dispute Resolution, ADR, Specialist at >the >>Department of Veterans Affairs, DVA for 3 years next March. I'm >>experiencing ongoing retaliation in a hostile environment, and >trying to >>tolerate it to remain employed and achieve career status. The >situation >>is now intolerable >>I was recruited into a Schedule A, (disability related hiring >>authority), and moved from California to Washington DC 3/07. I >was >>given opportunities above my grade level, GS-11, within the first >6 >>months, completed assignments successfully and promoted to GS-12 >in >>3/08. In 5/08 a manager was promoted to become my direct >supervisor. >>Days before her promotion was finalized, I asked my current boss, >the >>Deputy Assistant Secretary, DAS for a transfer since I had >experienced >>this manager's verbal abuse and discriminatory treatment from the >start >>of the application process. The DAS assured me the manager would >not >>bother me but denied my request. In the next rating period after >my >>promotion, the manager rated me as "needs improvement'". In >12/08 the >>oral threats of termination at any time began coming from the >manager >>with no guidance, counseling, etc. and I filed an >>EEO Complaint in 1/09. The manager terminated me in 2/09. I >appealed >>to >>the Secretary of VA, and his Chief of Staff, John Gingrage, >stated "We >>will make this right." The termination was reversed, but I was >placed >>back in the same office under the same manager. I was given to >>understand it was a "take it or leave it" proposition. >>I resumed work but the same pattern continued with the set up for >>failure >>becoming more blatant. I hired Gebhardt and Assoc. to >represent me in >>the >>EEO process. As my complaint moved to the formal stage, the >manager >>placed me on a Plan to Improve Performance, PIP in 7/09, required >me to >>change software from what I had used, and team members continued >to use, >>increased my work load and added unfamiliar assignments . The >manager >>also designated an incompetent reader/sighted assistance and has >ignored >>all my communications of ineffective reasonable accommodation. >11/09 she >>reported I failed the PIP and proposed my removal. >>We are preparing a response given a deadline of 12/24/09. >>Yesterday as the manager and I discussed my assignments and I >asked for >>clarification on a change to my performance standard she made >lest week >>that ensures my failure, the ombudsman walked into the meeting >and I >>agreed to spend 15 minutes articulating the issue to him. At >that point >>the manager said, "Well, I don't think I'm speaking out of turn, >but- >>"and proceeded to disclose that I was on a PIP, had failed the >PIP, and >>she had proposed my removal. I have never discussed my personnel >>history with team members or other employees. I confronted the >manager >>with the breach of my confidential records and observed as she >>rationalized her conduct stating that the ombudsman is acting to >resolve >>a dispute, and the information was relevant to him- as though >discussion >>of any performance question with this manager must include the >ombudsman >>and my agreement to meet with him a few minutes gave the manager >license >>to disclose my confidential record. >>I was unable to concentrate on work due to my own experience of >shock >>and the manager's continued oral harassment as she repeatedly >entered my >>office through the remainder of the day. I guess the only way to >get >>away from her is to take sick leave today and Monday to >determine next >>steps. I am very close to achieving career status- March 5 2010. >I >>believe this manager intends to ensure I never accomplish it, and >that >>her determination to be rid of me is of utmost importance to her. >>Meanwhile it is difficult for me to decide a best course to take >at >>present. >>Again, thanks for listening. >>Cathryn Bonnette (cathrynisfinally at verizon.net) >>_______________________________________________ >>blindlaw mailing list >>blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >for >>blindlaw: >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dfrye%4 >0nfb.or >>g >>_______________________________________________ >>blindlaw mailing list >>blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >for >>blindlaw: >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cathryn >isfinally%4 >>0verizon.net >>No virus found in this incoming message. >>Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>Version: 8.5.427 / Virus Database: 270.14.105/2562 - Release >Date: 12/18/09 >>07:35:00 >>_______________________________________________ >>blindlaw mailing list >>blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >for blindlaw: >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dfrye%4 >0nfb.org >_______________________________________________ >blindlaw mailing list >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >blindlaw: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cathryn isfinally%4 >0verizon.net >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >Version: 8.5.427 / Virus Database: 270.14.105/2562 - Release Date: 12/18/09 >07:35:00 >_______________________________________________ >blindlaw mailing list >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dfrye%4 0nfb.org From dandrews at visi.com Sun Dec 20 20:01:32 2009 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Sun, 20 Dec 2009 14:01:32 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] NFBNet.org Users Can Submit Recipes for Braille Monitor Message-ID: As you know the Braille Monitor publishes a few recipes each month. The practice, for some time is to go through the states alphabetically, one at a time, then to give Divisions a chance if they wish. We are about through the states in this cycle, and are about to go to Divisions. I have asked, and Dan Frye has agreed that NFBNET.ORG Users will get a chance to submit recipes for one of these months, June of 2010. So, I am putting out a call for recipes. I will establish a couple ground rules. First, of course, good recipes only, none of the a can of this, a can of that, and a can of mushroom soup, and bake for an hour. The recipes should be original, and not published in the Monitor previously. You can submit multiple recipes, but unless we don't get enough submissions, we will only publish one recipe per submitter to give the most people a chance. The Monitor uses six recipes per month. Finally, since I run NFBNet.org, and have for 18 years, I am the final judge. I may seek assistance, but ultimately it is my decision. Please submit your recipes to me at david.andrews at nfbnet.org Dave From joramsey at cox.net Sun Dec 20 21:04:36 2009 From: joramsey at cox.net (John Ramsey) Date: Sun, 20 Dec 2009 16:04:36 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] DVADisputeResolutionProgramManagerBreachesConfidentiality In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <88E97B05B21F42B7ACDE2F84FF20E086@noneeb869fea9a> Hi Dan, No problem and it is not bothersome. John A. Ramsey Jr., Esq. Gainesville, FL 32609 (352) 505-6642 This communication contains information that may be confidential and/or legally privileged. It is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. If you have received this communication in error, please call us at (352) 505-6642 and destroy any associated printed materials and delete the electronic material from any computer. Please be aware that any unauthorized disclosure, use or publication of this communication or the information it contains may result in criminal and/or civil liability. Due to this message being transmitted over the Internet, John Ramsey cannot assure that the messages are secure. If you are uncomfortable with such risks, you may decide not to use email to communicate with John Ramsey. Please contact us immediately at (352) 505-6642 if you decide not to use email. You must also be aware that email messages may be delayed or undelivered through circumstances beyond our control. Thank you. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Dan Frye Sent: Sunday, December 20, 2009 2:16 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] DVADisputeResolutionProgramManagerBreachesConfidentiality John: I have no problem with my contact details being posted to this list. Most on this list are friends or acquaintances, all interested in promoting the practice of law with blind attorneys, helping blind people with blindness-related legal challenges, or circulating information of interest to the NFB. So, I have no problem with posting my data to the list? If I didn't want it posted, I'd not include it in my email. Is it proving bothersome or representing too much traffic? Daniel B. Frye Office: (410) 659-9314, Ext 2208 Mobile: (410) 241-7006 Note: This message has been issued remotely from the BrailleNote. > ----- Original Message ----- >From: "John Ramsey" To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Sun, 20 Dec 2009 13:08:05 -0500 >Subject: Re: [blindlaw] DVA DisputeResolutionProgramManagerBreachesConfidentiality >Dan and Katherine, >Do you want your personal contact information posted to this list? >John A. Ramsey Jr., Esq. >Gainesville, FL 32609 >(352) 505-6642 >This communication contains information that may be confidential and/or >legally privileged. It is intended only for the use of the individual or >entity to which it is addressed. If you have received this communication in >error, please call us at (352) 505-6642 and destroy any associated printed >materials and delete the electronic material from any computer. Please be >aware that any unauthorized disclosure, use or publication of this >communication or the information it contains may result in criminal and/or >civil liability. Due to this message being transmitted over the Internet, >John Ramsey cannot assure that the messages are secure. If you are >uncomfortable with such risks, you may decide not to use email to >communicate with John Ramsey. Please contact us immediately at (352) >505-6642 if you decide not to use email. You must also be aware that email >messages may be delayed or undelivered through circumstances beyond our >control. Thank you. >-----Original Message----- >From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >Behalf Of Cathryn Bonnette >Sent: Sunday, December 20, 2009 10:52 AM >To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' >Subject: Re: [blindlaw] DVA Dispute >ResolutionProgramManagerBreachesConfidentiality >Dan: >I thoroughly enjoyed talking with you today. Thanks much for your time and >listening ear. My contact details follow. >Please use home contacts first: >Home e-mail: cathrynisfinally at verizon.net >Hone phone: 703-553-0477 >Work contacts are not preferred at present, but here's the info: Office >e-mail: Cathryn.bonnette at va.gov Office phone: 202-461-0513 Feel free to >share with Fred S. as we discussed. >Also, my plan is to e-mail my atty re: 1) contacting Jim Moran, and 2) >trying other political moves such as Christine Griffin, NFB, and/or the >media. >OK, Dan, be well, and enjoy the blizzard!!!!!! >-----Original Message----- >From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >Behalf of Dan Frye >Sent: Friday, December 18, 2009 9:27 PM >To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >Subject: Re: [blindlaw] DVA Dispute >ResolutionProgramManagerBreachesConfidentiality >Kathryn: >My contact details are below. Please call over the weekend. >Reaching me on my mobile will be easiest, but my home number is >also (410) 243-1818. I have a chapter meeting in the morning, >but I will be otherwise free. >Daniel B. Frye >Office: (410) 659-9314, Ext 2208 >Mobile: (410) 241-7006 >Note: This message has been issued remotely from the BrailleNote. >> ----- Original Message ----- >>From: "Cathryn Bonnette" >To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >Fri, 18 Dec 2009 15:50:04 -0500 >>Subject: Re: [blindlaw] DVA Dispute Resolution >ProgramManagerBreachesConfidentiality >>Dan: >>Thanks for responding. I found your e-mail, but not a phone #. >If you are >>open to discussing- my # is 703-553-0477. Interested to hear >your input. >>Cathryn >>-----Original Message----- >>From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >[mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>Behalf Of Frye, Dan >>Sent: Friday, December 18, 2009 8:58 AM >>To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>Subject: Re: [blindlaw] DVA Dispute Resolution Program >>ManagerBreachesConfidentiality >>Cathryn: >>During my years as a Federal employee (I'm no longer serving in >this >>capacity), I served as a union representative. Consequently, I >have a >>variety of experiences that I can share with you that could prove >>helpful in resolving your situation. Give me a call or write >privately >>(my contact details are below) if you wish to communicate. In >the >>interim, follow your current course of action. Get your appeal >filed, >>continue doing your job, document your efforts at resolution, and >>minimize your verbal, undocumented communication with your >manager to >>instances of absolute necessity and preferably limit conversation >with >>her to circumstances in the presence of reliable others. Stay >strong >>while you're fighting the system because you're always at a >disadvantage >>if somebody with authority over you has decided to target your >>performance. You either have to make your way through the >process of >>acquitting yourself or decide to leave. If you've chosen to try >and >>stay, you seem to be doing what you must. Finally, begin >discretely >>looking for other employment opportunities so that you have >options if >>matters become intolerable or a decision on the merits of your >EEO and >>other complaints are not favorable. I know nothing about the >substantive >>merits of your case, but these are my superficial first thoughts. >Write >>or call if You'd like to discuss this further. >>Dan Frye >>-----Original Message----- >>From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >[mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>On Behalf Of Cathryn Bonnette >>Sent: Friday, December 18, 2009 4:05 AM >>To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' >>Subject: [blindlaw] DVA Dispute Resolution Program Manager >>BreachesConfidentiality >>All: >>A sum of events follows in my federal employment. I will be very >>appreciative of ideas you may wish to offer. Thanks in advance >for your >>time. >>I've been an Alternative Dispute Resolution, ADR, Specialist at >the >>Department of Veterans Affairs, DVA for 3 years next March. I'm >>experiencing ongoing retaliation in a hostile environment, and >trying to >>tolerate it to remain employed and achieve career status. The >situation >>is now intolerable >>I was recruited into a Schedule A, (disability related hiring >>authority), and moved from California to Washington DC 3/07. I >was >>given opportunities above my grade level, GS-11, within the first >6 >>months, completed assignments successfully and promoted to GS-12 >in >>3/08. In 5/08 a manager was promoted to become my direct >supervisor. >>Days before her promotion was finalized, I asked my current boss, >the >>Deputy Assistant Secretary, DAS for a transfer since I had >experienced >>this manager's verbal abuse and discriminatory treatment from the >start >>of the application process. The DAS assured me the manager would >not >>bother me but denied my request. In the next rating period after >my >>promotion, the manager rated me as "needs improvement'". In >12/08 the >>oral threats of termination at any time began coming from the >manager >>with no guidance, counseling, etc. and I filed an >>EEO Complaint in 1/09. The manager terminated me in 2/09. I >appealed >>to >>the Secretary of VA, and his Chief of Staff, John Gingrage, >stated "We >>will make this right." The termination was reversed, but I was >placed >>back in the same office under the same manager. I was given to >>understand it was a "take it or leave it" proposition. >>I resumed work but the same pattern continued with the set up for >>failure >>becoming more blatant. I hired Gebhardt and Assoc. to >represent me in >>the >>EEO process. As my complaint moved to the formal stage, the >manager >>placed me on a Plan to Improve Performance, PIP in 7/09, required >me to >>change software from what I had used, and team members continued >to use, >>increased my work load and added unfamiliar assignments . The >manager >>also designated an incompetent reader/sighted assistance and has >ignored >>all my communications of ineffective reasonable accommodation. >11/09 she >>reported I failed the PIP and proposed my removal. >>We are preparing a response given a deadline of 12/24/09. >>Yesterday as the manager and I discussed my assignments and I >asked for >>clarification on a change to my performance standard she made >lest week >>that ensures my failure, the ombudsman walked into the meeting >and I >>agreed to spend 15 minutes articulating the issue to him. At >that point >>the manager said, "Well, I don't think I'm speaking out of turn, >but- >>"and proceeded to disclose that I was on a PIP, had failed the >PIP, and >>she had proposed my removal. I have never discussed my personnel >>history with team members or other employees. I confronted the >manager >>with the breach of my confidential records and observed as she >>rationalized her conduct stating that the ombudsman is acting to >resolve >>a dispute, and the information was relevant to him- as though >discussion >>of any performance question with this manager must include the >ombudsman >>and my agreement to meet with him a few minutes gave the manager >license >>to disclose my confidential record. >>I was unable to concentrate on work due to my own experience of >shock >>and the manager's continued oral harassment as she repeatedly >entered my >>office through the remainder of the day. I guess the only way to >get >>away from her is to take sick leave today and Monday to >determine next >>steps. I am very close to achieving career status- March 5 2010. >I >>believe this manager intends to ensure I never accomplish it, and >that >>her determination to be rid of me is of utmost importance to her. >>Meanwhile it is difficult for me to decide a best course to take >at >>present. >>Again, thanks for listening. >>Cathryn Bonnette (cathrynisfinally at verizon.net) >>_______________________________________________ >>blindlaw mailing list >>blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >for >>blindlaw: >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dfrye%4 >0nfb.or >>g >>_______________________________________________ >>blindlaw mailing list >>blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >for >>blindlaw: >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cathryn >isfinally%4 >>0verizon.net >>No virus found in this incoming message. >>Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>Version: 8.5.427 / Virus Database: 270.14.105/2562 - Release >Date: 12/18/09 >>07:35:00 >>_______________________________________________ >>blindlaw mailing list >>blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >for blindlaw: >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dfrye%4 >0nfb.org >_______________________________________________ >blindlaw mailing list >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >blindlaw: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cathryn isfinally%4 >0verizon.net >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >Version: 8.5.427 / Virus Database: 270.14.105/2562 - Release Date: 12/18/09 >07:35:00 >_______________________________________________ >blindlaw mailing list >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >blindlaw: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joramse y%40cox.net >_______________________________________________ >blindlaw mailing list >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dfrye%4 0nfb.org _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joramsey%40cox.net From cathrynisfinally at verizon.net Mon Dec 21 00:04:49 2009 From: cathrynisfinally at verizon.net (Cathryn Bonnette) Date: Sun, 20 Dec 2009 19:04:49 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] DVADisputeResolutionProgramManagerBreachesConfidentiality In-Reply-To: <88E97B05B21F42B7ACDE2F84FF20E086@noneeb869fea9a> References: <88E97B05B21F42B7ACDE2F84FF20E086@noneeb869fea9a> Message-ID: Hi, Dan Something to consider in the future, though I do not expect it to be misused in this group. Thanks -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of John Ramsey Sent: Sunday, December 20, 2009 4:05 PM To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: Re: [blindlaw]DVADisputeResolutionProgramManagerBreachesConfidentiality Hi Dan, No problem and it is not bothersome. John A. Ramsey Jr., Esq. Gainesville, FL 32609 (352) 505-6642 This communication contains information that may be confidential and/or legally privileged. It is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. If you have received this communication in error, please call us at (352) 505-6642 and destroy any associated printed materials and delete the electronic material from any computer. Please be aware that any unauthorized disclosure, use or publication of this communication or the information it contains may result in criminal and/or civil liability. Due to this message being transmitted over the Internet, John Ramsey cannot assure that the messages are secure. If you are uncomfortable with such risks, you may decide not to use email to communicate with John Ramsey. Please contact us immediately at (352) 505-6642 if you decide not to use email. You must also be aware that email messages may be delayed or undelivered through circumstances beyond our control. Thank you. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Dan Frye Sent: Sunday, December 20, 2009 2:16 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] DVADisputeResolutionProgramManagerBreachesConfidentiality John: I have no problem with my contact details being posted to this list. Most on this list are friends or acquaintances, all interested in promoting the practice of law with blind attorneys, helping blind people with blindness-related legal challenges, or circulating information of interest to the NFB. So, I have no problem with posting my data to the list? If I didn't want it posted, I'd not include it in my email. Is it proving bothersome or representing too much traffic? Daniel B. Frye Office: (410) 659-9314, Ext 2208 Mobile: (410) 241-7006 Note: This message has been issued remotely from the BrailleNote. > ----- Original Message ----- >From: "John Ramsey" To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Sun, 20 Dec 2009 13:08:05 -0500 >Subject: Re: [blindlaw] DVA DisputeResolutionProgramManagerBreachesConfidentiality >Dan and Katherine, >Do you want your personal contact information posted to this list? >John A. Ramsey Jr., Esq. >Gainesville, FL 32609 >(352) 505-6642 >This communication contains information that may be confidential and/or >legally privileged. It is intended only for the use of the individual or >entity to which it is addressed. If you have received this communication in >error, please call us at (352) 505-6642 and destroy any associated printed >materials and delete the electronic material from any computer. Please be >aware that any unauthorized disclosure, use or publication of this >communication or the information it contains may result in criminal and/or >civil liability. Due to this message being transmitted over the Internet, >John Ramsey cannot assure that the messages are secure. If you are >uncomfortable with such risks, you may decide not to use email to >communicate with John Ramsey. Please contact us immediately at (352) >505-6642 if you decide not to use email. You must also be aware that email >messages may be delayed or undelivered through circumstances beyond our >control. Thank you. >-----Original Message----- >From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >Behalf Of Cathryn Bonnette >Sent: Sunday, December 20, 2009 10:52 AM >To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' >Subject: Re: [blindlaw] DVA Dispute >ResolutionProgramManagerBreachesConfidentiality >Dan: >I thoroughly enjoyed talking with you today. Thanks much for your time and >listening ear. My contact details follow. >Please use home contacts first: >Home e-mail: cathrynisfinally at verizon.net >Hone phone: 703-553-0477 >Work contacts are not preferred at present, but here's the info: Office >e-mail: Cathryn.bonnette at va.gov Office phone: 202-461-0513 Feel free to >share with Fred S. as we discussed. >Also, my plan is to e-mail my atty re: 1) contacting Jim Moran, and 2) >trying other political moves such as Christine Griffin, NFB, and/or the >media. >OK, Dan, be well, and enjoy the blizzard!!!!!! >-----Original Message----- >From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >Behalf of Dan Frye >Sent: Friday, December 18, 2009 9:27 PM >To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >Subject: Re: [blindlaw] DVA Dispute >ResolutionProgramManagerBreachesConfidentiality >Kathryn: >My contact details are below. Please call over the weekend. >Reaching me on my mobile will be easiest, but my home number is >also (410) 243-1818. I have a chapter meeting in the morning, >but I will be otherwise free. >Daniel B. Frye >Office: (410) 659-9314, Ext 2208 >Mobile: (410) 241-7006 >Note: This message has been issued remotely from the BrailleNote. >> ----- Original Message ----- >>From: "Cathryn Bonnette" >To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >Fri, 18 Dec 2009 15:50:04 -0500 >>Subject: Re: [blindlaw] DVA Dispute Resolution >ProgramManagerBreachesConfidentiality >>Dan: >>Thanks for responding. I found your e-mail, but not a phone #. >If you are >>open to discussing- my # is 703-553-0477. Interested to hear >your input. >>Cathryn >>-----Original Message----- >>From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >[mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>Behalf Of Frye, Dan >>Sent: Friday, December 18, 2009 8:58 AM >>To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>Subject: Re: [blindlaw] DVA Dispute Resolution Program >>ManagerBreachesConfidentiality >>Cathryn: >>During my years as a Federal employee (I'm no longer serving in >this >>capacity), I served as a union representative. Consequently, I >have a >>variety of experiences that I can share with you that could prove >>helpful in resolving your situation. Give me a call or write >privately >>(my contact details are below) if you wish to communicate. In >the >>interim, follow your current course of action. Get your appeal >filed, >>continue doing your job, document your efforts at resolution, and >>minimize your verbal, undocumented communication with your >manager to >>instances of absolute necessity and preferably limit conversation >with >>her to circumstances in the presence of reliable others. Stay >strong >>while you're fighting the system because you're always at a >disadvantage >>if somebody with authority over you has decided to target your >>performance. You either have to make your way through the >process of >>acquitting yourself or decide to leave. If you've chosen to try >and >>stay, you seem to be doing what you must. Finally, begin >discretely >>looking for other employment opportunities so that you have >options if >>matters become intolerable or a decision on the merits of your >EEO and >>other complaints are not favorable. I know nothing about the >substantive >>merits of your case, but these are my superficial first thoughts. >Write >>or call if You'd like to discuss this further. >>Dan Frye >>-----Original Message----- >>From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >[mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>On Behalf Of Cathryn Bonnette >>Sent: Friday, December 18, 2009 4:05 AM >>To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' >>Subject: [blindlaw] DVA Dispute Resolution Program Manager >>BreachesConfidentiality >>All: >>A sum of events follows in my federal employment. I will be very >>appreciative of ideas you may wish to offer. Thanks in advance >for your >>time. >>I've been an Alternative Dispute Resolution, ADR, Specialist at >the >>Department of Veterans Affairs, DVA for 3 years next March. I'm >>experiencing ongoing retaliation in a hostile environment, and >trying to >>tolerate it to remain employed and achieve career status. The >situation >>is now intolerable >>I was recruited into a Schedule A, (disability related hiring >>authority), and moved from California to Washington DC 3/07. I >was >>given opportunities above my grade level, GS-11, within the first >6 >>months, completed assignments successfully and promoted to GS-12 >in >>3/08. In 5/08 a manager was promoted to become my direct >supervisor. >>Days before her promotion was finalized, I asked my current boss, >the >>Deputy Assistant Secretary, DAS for a transfer since I had >experienced >>this manager's verbal abuse and discriminatory treatment from the >start >>of the application process. The DAS assured me the manager would >not >>bother me but denied my request. In the next rating period after >my >>promotion, the manager rated me as "needs improvement'". In >12/08 the >>oral threats of termination at any time began coming from the >manager >>with no guidance, counseling, etc. and I filed an >>EEO Complaint in 1/09. The manager terminated me in 2/09. I >appealed >>to >>the Secretary of VA, and his Chief of Staff, John Gingrage, >stated "We >>will make this right." The termination was reversed, but I was >placed >>back in the same office under the same manager. I was given to >>understand it was a "take it or leave it" proposition. >>I resumed work but the same pattern continued with the set up for >>failure >>becoming more blatant. I hired Gebhardt and Assoc. to >represent me in >>the >>EEO process. As my complaint moved to the formal stage, the >manager >>placed me on a Plan to Improve Performance, PIP in 7/09, required >me to >>change software from what I had used, and team members continued >to use, >>increased my work load and added unfamiliar assignments . The >manager >>also designated an incompetent reader/sighted assistance and has >ignored >>all my communications of ineffective reasonable accommodation. >11/09 she >>reported I failed the PIP and proposed my removal. >>We are preparing a response given a deadline of 12/24/09. >>Yesterday as the manager and I discussed my assignments and I >asked for >>clarification on a change to my performance standard she made >lest week >>that ensures my failure, the ombudsman walked into the meeting >and I >>agreed to spend 15 minutes articulating the issue to him. At >that point >>the manager said, "Well, I don't think I'm speaking out of turn, >but- >>"and proceeded to disclose that I was on a PIP, had failed the >PIP, and >>she had proposed my removal. I have never discussed my personnel >>history with team members or other employees. I confronted the >manager >>with the breach of my confidential records and observed as she >>rationalized her conduct stating that the ombudsman is acting to >resolve >>a dispute, and the information was relevant to him- as though >discussion >>of any performance question with this manager must include the >ombudsman >>and my agreement to meet with him a few minutes gave the manager >license >>to disclose my confidential record. >>I was unable to concentrate on work due to my own experience of >shock >>and the manager's continued oral harassment as she repeatedly >entered my >>office through the remainder of the day. I guess the only way to >get >>away from her is to take sick leave today and Monday to >determine next >>steps. I am very close to achieving career status- March 5 2010. >I >>believe this manager intends to ensure I never accomplish it, and >that >>her determination to be rid of me is of utmost importance to her. >>Meanwhile it is difficult for me to decide a best course to take >at >>present. >>Again, thanks for listening. >>Cathryn Bonnette (cathrynisfinally at verizon.net) >>_______________________________________________ >>blindlaw mailing list >>blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >for >>blindlaw: >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dfrye%4 >0nfb.or >>g >>_______________________________________________ >>blindlaw mailing list >>blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >for >>blindlaw: >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cathryn >isfinally%4 >>0verizon.net >>No virus found in this incoming message. >>Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>Version: 8.5.427 / Virus Database: 270.14.105/2562 - Release >Date: 12/18/09 >>07:35:00 >>_______________________________________________ >>blindlaw mailing list >>blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >for blindlaw: >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dfrye%4 >0nfb.org >_______________________________________________ >blindlaw mailing list >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >blindlaw: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cathryn isfinally%4 >0verizon.net >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >Version: 8.5.427 / Virus Database: 270.14.105/2562 - Release Date: 12/18/09 >07:35:00 >_______________________________________________ >blindlaw mailing list >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >blindlaw: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joramse y%40cox.net >_______________________________________________ >blindlaw mailing list >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dfrye%4 0nfb.org _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joramsey%40cox.net _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cathrynisfinally%4 0verizon.net No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.427 / Virus Database: 270.14.115/2577 - Release Date: 12/20/09 07:35:00 From william.odonnell1 at yahoo.com Tue Dec 22 16:47:46 2009 From: william.odonnell1 at yahoo.com (William ODonnell) Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2009 08:47:46 -0800 (PST) Subject: [blindlaw] (no subject) Message-ID: <59054.97169.qm@web30905.mail.mud.yahoo.com> forwarded message below: From: Albert J Rizzi Date: Tuesday, December 22, 2009, 11:11 AM “It is a terrible thing to see and have no vision.  “ - Helen Keller   Dear friend,   With the Holidays already upon us, perhaps you would like to help me share a little blind faith, vision and good will by helping My Blind Spot advance its mission of equality and accessibility for all.   This year brings many reasons for me to be thankful and for taking this moment to make this request for a pledge from you and anyone whom you think would like to affect a national shift in the perspectives on blindness.    After living life for the past 4 years completely blind, I can tell you wholeheartedly that I consider my new way of seeing life as a gift to be shared and looked at by one and all.  For too many years, we have all turned a blind eye, myself included, to people living with the types of sensory loss which strike fear to the core of our being. I have learned that blindness itself is not my major limitation. The hardest part of being blind is the emotional and physical barriers put there by others.        What have we accomplished so far? Well, due in great part to the strength and determination I drew from you all, I was able to be the best I could be in this new and exciting way I view life.   My Blind Spot was incorporated in March and approved as a formal 501c3 this past September.  In  November we received blessings in the form of a grant from the Chatlos Foundation’s President, William Chatlos. His gift is very meaningful because he is a man who happens to be blind and is also redefining blindness and has been doing so since 1970!    Then too, we were given a swanky Manhattan address from members of our board, Jim Brock and Ted Locke, and presently we have 6 committed and dedicated individuals on our board.  We also landed contracts with educational institutions in New York and have partnered with others by providing internship opportunities to young blind and sighted adults who are transitioning from school to post secondary endeavors.   Now let me make this simple request:  As you take the time to collect remembrances for your loved ones for the Holiday season,   help us make a social change of global proportions. Simply click on the link below and pledge either $5 or $10 to My Blind Spot.    Your tax-deductable donation will be used to plant the seeds of hope and opportunity and further the legislative, technological and humanitarian efforts for those of us living with blindness.   You can help eradicate the antiquated myths and misperceptions about blindness and visual impairments.   Yes, technological advancements and legislative enactments in the last 20 plus years have improved the lives of people living with blindness. But much progress is still needed to create a positive, affirming and inclusive mentality.   This year give the gift of vision and hope to those of us who see things through a different looking glass.  To give, please click on the link below. While you're there, take a moment and stroll through the site to learn more about My Blind Spot and who we are.  If you would be kind enough to share this request with your circle of friends or colleagues, it would be greatly appreciated. http://www.myblindspot.org/?q=donate   Wishing You and Yours a Happy and Healthy Holiday Season!   Albert and Doxology     Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed. CEO/Founder My Blind Spot, Inc. 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl. New York , New York   10004 www.myblindspot.org PH: 917-553-0347 Fax: 212-858-5759 "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who is doing it." Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn   -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Jobs mailing list Jobs at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/jobs_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Jobs: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/jobs_nfbnet.org/william.odonnell1%40yahoo.com -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 115657 bytes Desc: not available URL: From johnrsheehan at yahoo.com Tue Dec 22 18:21:47 2009 From: johnrsheehan at yahoo.com (John Sheehan) Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2009 10:21:47 -0800 (PST) Subject: [blindlaw] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <59054.97169.qm@web30905.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <59054.97169.qm@web30905.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <218333.46219.qm@web53803.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Are we now allowing commercials on this list? If so, I've got one too - but I had rather thought this list had other purposes, and I felt that it would inappropriate to advertise here and solicit for funds. Clarification? Fr. John R. Sheehan, SJ Chairman Xavier Society for the Blind 154 E. 23rd St NYC 10010 212 473-7800, ext 119 Help us raise money for the Xavier Society for the Blind just by searching the Internet or shopping online with GoodSearch - www.goodsearch.com - powered by Yahoo! Free for you - and money for us! Thank you. Residence: 53 E 83rd St New York, NY 10028 Room Phone: 212 606-3420 Cell: 646 853-1820 Blog: www.frjohnsj.blogspot.com ________________________________ From: William ODonnell Sent: Tue, December 22, 2009 11:47:46 AM Subject: [blindlaw] (no subject) forwarded message below: From: Albert J Rizzi Date: Tuesday, December 22, 2009, 11:11 AM “It is a terrible thing to see and have no vision. “ - Helen Keller Dear friend, With the Holidays already upon us, perhaps you would like to help me share a little blind faith, vision and good will by helping My Blind Spot advance its mission of equality and accessibility for all. This year brings many reasons for me to be thankful and for taking this moment to make this request for a pledge from you and anyone whom you think would like to affect a national shift in the perspectives on blindness. After living life for the past 4 years completely blind, I can tell you wholeheartedly that I consider my new way of seeing life as a gift to be shared and looked at by one and all. For too many years, we have all turned a blind eye, myself included, to people living with the types of sensory loss which strike fear to the core of our being. I have learned that blindness itself is not my major limitation. The hardest part of being blind is the emotional and physical barriers put there by others. What have we accomplished so far? Well, due in great part to the strength and determination I drew from you all, I was able to be the best I could be in this new and exciting way I view life. My Blind Spot was incorporated in March and approved as a formal 501c3 this past September. In November we received blessings in the form of a grant from the Chatlos Foundation’s President, William Chatlos. His gift is very meaningful because he is a man who happens to be blind and is also redefining blindness and has been doing so since 1970! Then too, we were given a swanky Manhattan address from members of our board, Jim Brock and Ted Locke, and presently we have 6 committed and dedicated individuals on our board. We also landed contracts with educational institutions in New York and have partnered with others by providing internship opportunities to young blind and sighted adults who are transitioning from school to post secondary endeavors. Now let me make this simple request: As you take the time to collect remembrances for your loved ones for the Holiday season, help us make a social change of global proportions. Simply click on the link below and pledge either $5 or $10 to My Blind Spot. Your tax-deductable donation will be used to plant the seeds of hope and opportunity and further the legislative, technological and humanitarian efforts for those of us living with blindness. You can help eradicate the antiquated myths and misperceptions about blindness and visual impairments. Yes, technological advancements and legislative enactments in the last 20 plus years have improved the lives of people living with blindness. But much progress is still needed to create a positive, affirming and inclusive mentality. This year give the gift of vision and hope to those of us who see things through a different looking glass. To give, please click on the link below. While you're there, take a moment and stroll through the site to learn more about My Blind Spot and who we are. If you would be kind enough to share this request with your circle of friends or colleagues, it would be greatly appreciated. http://www.myblindspot.org/?q=donate Wishing You and Yours a Happy and Healthy Holiday Season! Albert and Doxology Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed. CEO/Founder My Blind Spot, Inc. 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl. New York , New York 10004 www.myblindspot.org PH: 917-553-0347 Fax: 212-858-5759 "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who is doing it." Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Jobs mailing list Jobs at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/jobs_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Jobs: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/jobs_nfbnet.org/william.odonnell1%40yahoo.com From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov Tue Dec 22 19:07:14 2009 From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel) Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2009 13:07:14 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] Google Offers Legal Research for the Average Citizen-and Lawyers, Too, ABA Journal, November 18 2009 Message-ID: Link: http://www.abajournal.com/news/article/google_offers_legal_research_for_the_average_citizenand_lawyers_too Text: Google Offers Legal Research for the Average Citizen-and Lawyers, Too Nov 18, 2009 By Debra Cassens Weiss Google has announced it is adding a new search function that will find full-text legal opinions from federal and state courts. Users can go to the Google Scholar online search engine and type in case names, topics or key words to find the relevant cases. "We think this addition to Google Scholar will empower the average citizen by helping everyone learn more about the laws that govern us all," Google says in an announcement posted at TaxProf Blog. Researchers can try an "advanced scholar" search link that narrows searches to opinions in specific states, according to the Supreme Court of Texas Blog. Users can also specify whether they want to search for "all of the words," an exact phrase, or at least one of the words. They can also add date and author restrictions. Case law goes back about 80 years for federal cases and more than 50 years for state cases, according to Information Today Inc. The opinions will have "cited by" and "related articles" links that take readers to other opinions and articles that will help them understand the information. But there is no citator service that flags when an opinion is overruled or called into question. The Supreme Court of Texas Blog says the new search option is "quite polished and looks like it might be usable for serious legal work." Josh Blackman's Blog is also impressed with the results. "Extremely quick, efficient, and free," the blog says. "And it doesn't just link to FindLaw or Cornell. It actually has an original, full text version. I just entered in a few key Supreme Court cases, and a few prominent circuit cases, and they were all in Google. Pretty cool." There are some shortcomings, however, according to the story by Information Today Inc. "This product is not going to put Lexis or Westlaw out of business," Carol Ebbinghouse, law library director at the California 2nd District Court of Appeals, writes for the blog. "These files do not cover the time dating from the beginning of our country, nor to the beginnings of the individual states." Ebbinghouse notes that although there are hyperlinks within cases to other opinions, hyperlinks to other materials are not there. "There are no hyperlinks to statutes, codes, regulations, administrative opinions, or anything else quoted or referred to in the text of the opinions," she says. "Finally, there is no citator service to verify that a particular opinion has not been overruled or vacated, distinguished, or otherwise declared of dubious value." From jim at knfbreader.com Tue Dec 22 21:37:14 2009 From: jim at knfbreader.com (James Gashel) Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2009 15:37:14 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] More phones and trial version now supported by KNFB Reader Mobile Message-ID: From: James Gashel [mailto:jim at knfbreader.com] Sent: Tuesday, December 22, 2009 12:45 PM To: Reader users list (reader-users at nfbnet.org) Subject: More phones and trial version now supported All -- Please see the notice below which announces a new release of the Mobile Reader software. This release is limited to adding support for several additional Nokia phones and to allow use of a trial license for a 14 day free evaluation period. This release does not include other new features, such as color recognition and glare detection, which have been discussed and are still being developed. Please note that installation of the release announced below is not considered necessary to replace version 6.1.11 since new functionality for the Mobile Reader itself is not being added. NOTICE OF NEW SUPPORTED PHONES AND TRIAL VERSION NOW AVAILABLE This notice is being distributed to announce two important developments intended to make K-NFB Reading Technology's Mobile Reader products more widely available throughout the United States and around the world. These changes have also required a new release, version 6.3.1, of the Mobile Reader software now available for download at knfbreader.com. Please note that this release does not contain new features or functionality aside from supporting additional phones and allowing the software to operate for a time-limited trial period. Therefore, installation of this version is not considered necessary for current users. NEW SUPPORTED PHONES The phones now supported with the initial release of version 6.3.1 are the Nokia E71 (best used with the kReader Mobile), N79, N82, N85, N86, N95 8 GB, N95 North American model, and the Nokia 6220 Classic. Please note that changes in phone models and availability must be expected. However, phones which become unavailable from suppliers will continue to be supported for use with the Mobile Reader software when changes are made to support newer phones and models which become available. This applies at present to the N82 and the 6220 Classic. For more information on each of these devices please visit our supported phones web page at http://www.knfbreader.com/phone_info.php This page includes important information about each supported phone as well as links to obtain detailed specifications. Please check back periodically to keep up to date as more phones are added to the list. Checking with various suppliers for availability and price is recommended. TRIAL VERSION We have been asked to create a means for trying out either the kReader Mobile or the knfbReader Mobile before making a purchasing decision, which is now possible with version 6.3.1. The trial is a full version of the kReader Mobile or the knfbReader Mobile, whichever is chosen, but the activation period is limited to 14 days. The procedures used to install and activate the trial version are identical to the purchased product, but a special trial license must be obtained from an authorized Mobile Reader dealer http://knfbreader.com/purchase.php or from K-NFB Reading Technology's technical support service by email at: support at knfbreader.com or by phone at: (877) 547-1500. Best Regards, James Gashel Vice President of Business Development K-NFB Reading Technology, Inc. Direct phone: (720) 878-4248 Fax: (781) 263-9999 Skype: james.gashel email: jim at knfbreader.com http://www.knfbreader.com From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov Tue Dec 22 21:48:10 2009 From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel) Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2009 15:48:10 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] Goal of New ABA Web Effort: All the Federal Decisions that Are Fit to Print, ABA Journal, November 17 2009 Message-ID: Link: http://www.abajournal.com/news/article/goal_of_new_aba_website_all_the_federal_decisions_that_are_fit_to_print Text: Goal of New ABA Web Effort: All the Federal Decisions that Are Fit to Print Posted Nov 17, 2009 By Debra Cassens Weiss Want to know more about a 9th Circuit opinion on the First Amendment rights of a citizen ejected from a city council meeting for giving a Nazi salute? Or the 5th Circuit opinion allowing a Halliburton employee to sue over her alleged rape in Iraq? You can find those opinions summarized on a revamped Media Alerts on Federal Courts of Appeals page on ABAnet.org. Students and professors at four law schools are choosing the opinions most likely to be of interest to journalists and the public for the pilot project, sponsored by the ABA Standing Committee on Federal Judicial Improvements. The pilot project, which officially launches on Wednesday, now covers the U.S. Courts of Appeals for the 3rd, 5th and 9th Circuits. The plan is to eventually add all of the circuits. Judge M. Margaret McKeown of the 9th Circuit, a special adviser to the project, says the idea for the special coverage of the circuits grew out of some discussions between judges and journalists at a meeting at the First Amendment Center earlier this year. About 60,000 cases are filed every year in the federal courts of appeals, McKeown told the ABA Journal. "Most courts have very good websites, but there is a lot of information out there, so this provides a special niche," she says. "There is a certain needle-in-the-haystack element for someone to go through them every day in every jurisdiction of interest to find cases." "Our view is that fair and accurate reporting about the courts is important, both for the public and also in order to emphasize judicial independence," says McKeown, whose three-year term as chair of the ABA Standing Committee on Federal Judicial Improvements ended in August. Law schools working on the project are the University of Texas School of Law, Temple University Beasley School of Law, the University of Arizona James E. Rogers College of Law, and the University of San Diego School of Law. UT law professor Stefanie Lindquist says each law school is making its own decisions on how the work gets done. At UT, Lindquist is supervising five students this semester and seven next semester who are doing the work as part of a pass-fail class she is teaching. Students had to apply for the class, and Lindquist decided which ones made the cut. One of the students is a former Dallas Morning News reporter; others are on law review or will be going on to federal clerkships. Lindquist and another professor handle the final edits. "It's a wonderful teaching opportunity in the law school and a wonderful opportunity to publicize information about the courts," Lindquist told the ABA Journal. Students are trying to keep legalese to a minimum, and are scouring the decisions for parties and subjects likely to be of interest. Sometimes, she admits, the law can be pretty complicated, and the issues "incredibly varied in terms of topics and substantive areas." "It's actually not as easy as I thought originally," Lindquist says. "It's fun, though-it's challenging and fun." From rthomas at rjtlawfirm.com Tue Dec 22 23:41:32 2009 From: rthomas at rjtlawfirm.com (Russell J. Thomas, Jr.) Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2009 15:41:32 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] Goal of New ABA Web Effort: All the Federal Decisions that Are Fit to Print, ABA Journal, November 17 2009 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <85890A75AE7846048EC9542B1F518CC9@RThomas> This sounds good in theory, but it is probably virtually useless in practice. Those cases thought to be "newsworthy" or possessing some type of "sex appeal" in the public mind, are usually not the kinds of cases we will be interested in the day-to-day, nuts-and-bolts aspects of our respective practices. I read a sample of a one-day of output from this project and I was not impressed. We can put this in the "something is better than nothing" category. Respectfully, Russell J. Thomas, Jr. THOMAS & ASSOCIATES www.californiaemployersattorneys.com Orange County Office 4121 Westerly Place, Suite 101 Newport Beach, California 92660 T: (949) 752-0101 F: (949) 257-4756 M: (949) 466-7238 Beverly Hills Office 9107 Wilshire Boulevard, Suite 450 Beverly Hills, California 90210 T: (310) 461-3561 -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Nightingale, Noel Sent: Tuesday, December 22, 2009 1:48 PM To: 'blindlaw at nfbnet.org' Subject: [blindlaw] Goal of New ABA Web Effort: All the Federal Decisions that Are Fit to Print, ABA Journal, November 17 2009 Link: http://www.abajournal.com/news/article/goal_of_new_aba_website_all_the_feder al_decisions_that_are_fit_to_print Text: Goal of New ABA Web Effort: All the Federal Decisions that Are Fit to Print Posted Nov 17, 2009 By Debra Cassens Weiss Want to know more about a 9th Circuit opinion on the First Amendment rights of a citizen ejected from a city council meeting for giving a Nazi salute? Or the 5th Circuit opinion allowing a Halliburton employee to sue over her alleged rape in Iraq? You can find those opinions summarized on a revamped Media Alerts on Federal Courts of Appeals page on ABAnet.org. Students and professors at four law schools are choosing the opinions most likely to be of interest to journalists and the public for the pilot project, sponsored by the ABA Standing Committee on Federal Judicial Improvements. The pilot project, which officially launches on Wednesday, now covers the U.S. Courts of Appeals for the 3rd, 5th and 9th Circuits. The plan is to eventually add all of the circuits. Judge M. Margaret McKeown of the 9th Circuit, a special adviser to the project, says the idea for the special coverage of the circuits grew out of some discussions between judges and journalists at a meeting at the First Amendment Center earlier this year. About 60,000 cases are filed every year in the federal courts of appeals, McKeown told the ABA Journal. "Most courts have very good websites, but there is a lot of information out there, so this provides a special niche," she says. "There is a certain needle-in-the-haystack element for someone to go through them every day in every jurisdiction of interest to find cases." "Our view is that fair and accurate reporting about the courts is important, both for the public and also in order to emphasize judicial independence," says McKeown, whose three-year term as chair of the ABA Standing Committee on Federal Judicial Improvements ended in August. Law schools working on the project are the University of Texas School of Law, Temple University Beasley School of Law, the University of Arizona James E. Rogers College of Law, and the University of San Diego School of Law. UT law professor Stefanie Lindquist says each law school is making its own decisions on how the work gets done. At UT, Lindquist is supervising five students this semester and seven next semester who are doing the work as part of a pass-fail class she is teaching. Students had to apply for the class, and Lindquist decided which ones made the cut. One of the students is a former Dallas Morning News reporter; others are on law review or will be going on to federal clerkships. Lindquist and another professor handle the final edits. "It's a wonderful teaching opportunity in the law school and a wonderful opportunity to publicize information about the courts," Lindquist told the ABA Journal. Students are trying to keep legalese to a minimum, and are scouring the decisions for parties and subjects likely to be of interest. Sometimes, she admits, the law can be pretty complicated, and the issues "incredibly varied in terms of topics and substantive areas." "It's actually not as easy as I thought originally," Lindquist says. "It's fun, though-it's challenging and fun." _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rthomas%40rjtlawfi rm.com From dandrews at visi.com Wed Dec 23 03:31:01 2009 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2009 21:31:01 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <59054.97169.qm@web30905.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <59054.97169.qm@web30905.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: This message is inappropriate and off topic for this list! David Andrews, List Owner At 10:47 AM 12/22/2009, William ODonnell wrote: >forwarded message below: >From: Albert J Rizzi > >Date: Tuesday, December 22, 2009, 11:11 AM > > > > > > > > >“It is a terrible thing to see and have no vision.  “ - Helen Keller > >Dear friend, > >With the Holidays already upon us, perhaps you >would like to help me share a little blind >faith, vision and good will by helping My Blind >Spot advance its mission of equality and accessibility for all. > >This year brings many reasons for me to be >thankful and for taking this moment to make this >request for a pledge from you and anyone whom >you think would like to affect a national shift >in the perspectives on blindness. > >After living life for the past 4 years >completely blind, I can tell you wholeheartedly >that I consider my new way of seeing life as a >gift to be shared and looked at by one and >all. For too many years, we have all turned a >blind eye, myself included, to people living >with the types of sensory loss which strike fear >to the core of our being. I have learned that >blindness itself is not my major limitation. The >hardest part of being blind is the emotional and >physical barriers put there by others.  > > >What have we accomplished so far? Well, due in >great part to the strength and determination I >drew from you all, I was able to be the best I >could be in this new and exciting way I view >life.  My Blind Spot was incorporated in >March and approved as a formal 501c3 this past >September. In November we received blessings >in the form of a grant from the Chatlos >Foundation’s President, William Chatlos. His >gift is very meaningful because he is a man who >happens to be blind and is also redefining >blindness and has been doing so since 1970!  > Then too, we were given a swanky Manhattan >address from members of our board, Jim Brock and >Ted Locke, and presently we have 6 committed and >dedicated individuals on our board. We also >landed contracts with educational institutions in New York and have > partnered with others by providing internship > opportunities to young blind and sighted adults > who are transitioning from school to post secondary endeavors. > >Now let me make this simple request: As you >take the time to collect remembrances for your >loved ones for the Holiday season,  help us >make a social change of global proportions. >Simply click on the link below and pledge either >$5 or $10 to My Blind Spot.   Your >tax-deductable donation will be used to plant >the seeds of hope and opportunity and further >the legislative, technological and humanitarian >efforts for those of us living with blindness. > You can help eradicate the antiquated myths >and misperceptions about blindness and visual impairments. > >Yes, technological advancements and legislative >enactments in the last 20 plus years have >improved the lives of people living with >blindness. But much progress is still needed to >create a positive, affirming and inclusive mentality. > >This year give the gift of vision and hope to >those of us who see things through a different >looking glass. To give, please click on the >link below. While you're there, take a moment >and stroll through the site to learn more about >My Blind Spot and who we are. If you would be >kind enough to share this request with your >circle of friends or colleagues, it would be greatly appreciated. >http://www.myblindspot.org/?q=donate > >Wishing You and Yours a Happy and Healthy Holiday Season! > >Albert and Doxology > > >Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed. >CEO/Founder >My Blind Spot, Inc. >90 Broad Street - 18th Fl. >New York , New York  10004 >www.myblindspot.org >PH: 917-553-0347 >Fax: 212-858-5759 >"The person who says it cannot be done, >shouldn't interrupt the one who is doing it." >Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn > >-----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > >_______________________________________________ >Jobs mailing list >Jobs at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/jobs_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Jobs: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/jobs_nfbnet.org/william.odonnell1%40yahoo.com > > > >__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, >version of virus signature database 4710 (20091222) __________ > >The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > >http://www.eset.com > > > >_______________________________________________ >blindlaw mailing list >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >your account info for blindlaw: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40visi.com From dandrews at visi.com Wed Dec 23 03:31:45 2009 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2009 21:31:45 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <218333.46219.qm@web53803.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <59054.97169.qm@web30905.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <218333.46219.qm@web53803.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: The message shouldn't have been sent here. David Andrews, List Owner At 12:21 PM 12/22/2009, you wrote: >Are we now allowing commercials on this list? If >so, I've got one too - but I had rather thought >this list had other purposes, and I felt that it >would inappropriate to advertise here and >solicit for funds. Clarification? Fr. John R. >Sheehan, SJ Chairman Xavier Society for the >Blind 154 E. 23rd St NYC 10010 212 473-7800, ext >119 Help us raise money for the Xavier Society >for the Blind just by searching the Internet or >shopping online with GoodSearch - >www.goodsearch.com - powered by Yahoo! Free for >you - and money for us! Thank you. Residence: 53 >E 83rd St New York, NY 10028 Room Phone: 212 >606-3420 Cell: 646 853-1820 Blog: >www.frjohnsj.blogspot.com >________________________________ From: William >ODonnell Sent: >Tue, December 22, 2009 11:47:46 AM Subject: >[blindlaw] (no subject) forwarded message below: >From: Albert J Rizzi >Date: Tuesday, December 22, 2009, 11:11 AM “It >is a terrible thing to see and have no >vision. “ - Helen Keller Dear friend, With >the Holidays already upon us, perhaps you would >like to help me share a little blind faith, >vision and good will by helping My Blind Spot >advance its mission of equality and >accessibility for all. This year brings many >reasons for me to be thankful and for taking >this moment to make this request for a pledge >from you and anyone whom you think would like to >affect a national shift in the perspectives on >blindness. After living life for the past 4 >years completely blind, I can tell you >wholeheartedly that I consider my new way of >seeing life as a gift to be shared and looked at >by one and all. For too many years, we have all >turned a blind eye, myself included, to people >living with the types of sensory loss which >strike fear to the core of our being. I have >learned that blindness itself is not my major >limitation. The hardest part of being blind is >the emotional and physical barriers put there by >others. What have we accomplished so far? >Well, due in great part to the strength and >determination I drew from you all, I was able to >be the best I could be in this new and exciting >way I view life. My Blind Spot was >incorporated in March and approved as a formal >501c3 this past September. In November we >received blessings in the form of a grant from >the Chatlos Foundation’s President, William >Chatlos. His gift is very meaningful because he >is a man who happens to be blind and is also >redefining blindness and has been doing so since >1970! Then too, we were given a swanky >Manhattan address from members of our board, Jim >Brock and Ted Locke, and presently we have 6 >committed and dedicated individuals on our >board. We also landed contracts with >educational institutions in New York and have >partnered with others by providing internship >opportunities to young blind and sighted adults >who are transitioning from school to post >secondary endeavors. Now let me make this simple >request: As you take the time to collect >remembrances for your loved ones for the Holiday >season, help us make a social change of global >proportions. Simply click on the link below and >pledge either $5 or $10 to My Blind >Spot. Your tax-deductable donation will be >used to plant the seeds of hope and opportunity >and further the legislative, technological and >humanitarian efforts for those of us living with >blindness. You can help eradicate the >antiquated myths and misperceptions about >blindness and visual impairments. Yes, >technological advancements and legislative >enactments in the last 20 plus years have >improved the lives of people living with >blindness. But much progress is still needed to >create a positive, affirming and inclusive >mentality. This year give the gift of vision From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov Thu Dec 24 19:24:58 2009 From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel) Date: Thu, 24 Dec 2009 13:24:58 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] FW: Deputy Director Legal Recruitment Ad Message-ID: ________________________________ From: jobs-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:jobs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Maurer, Patricia Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 1:13 PM To: jobs at nfbnet.org Subject: [Jobs] FW: Deputy Director Legal Recruitment Ad ________________________________ From: Hunter, Sue [mailto:Sue.Hunter at usdoj.gov] Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 3:24 PM To: noconnell at tabinc.org; noryrp at cox.net; nromulus at gmail.com; ntb at boglechang.com; nwpatton at law.stanford.edu; ocaaba at cox.net; omanager at lawyerscomm.org; palsd at hotmail.com; patel at fr.com; pchanster at yahoo.com; pchapman at koonz.com; pgrewal at daycasebeer.com; pkim at lordbissell.com; Maurer, Patricia; pmorrison at state.wv.us; poppy.johnston at unlv.edu; president at abaw.org; president at adc.org; president at apabala.org; president at blackwomenlawyersla.org; president at dominicanbarassociation.org; president at mabl.org; president at msba.org; president at phillybarristers.org; president at sabasc.org; president at southasianbar.org; rbreiter at law.miami.edu; rcohen at sra.state.md.us; recruiting at uchastings.edu; rfhagans at cox.net; rharnais at mahaweb.org; Rhonda_Harjo at indian.senate.gov; richard at ffbanc.org; rlindsey at law.gwu.edu; rqharr at wm.edu; rsheen at fccila.net Subject: Deputy Director Legal Recruitment Ad To learn more about our attorneys and what they like most about working at DOJ, please visit our attorney profiles at, http://www.usdoj.gov/oarm/arm/profiles.htm, and the video clips of our attorneys and interns available at https://www.avuedigitalservices.com/ads/jobsatdojoarm/index.jsp We encourage you to share this email with interested colleagues and peers. If you no longer wish to receive these periodic email announcements, please respond to this email address and ask to be removed from our mailing list. Thank you. <> The purpose of this email is to advise potential interested persons of employment opportunities at the Department of Justice. The Department of Justice cannot control further dissemination and/or posting of this information. Such posting and/or dissemination is not an endorsement by the Department of the organization or group disseminating and/or posting the information. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Depty Director Legal Recruitment.wpd Type: application/octet-stream Size: 34683 bytes Desc: Depty Director Legal Recruitment.wpd URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Jobs mailing list Jobs at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/jobs_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Jobs: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/jobs_nfbnet.org/noel.nightingale%40ed.gov From joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com Mon Dec 28 01:14:42 2009 From: joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com (RJ Sandefur) Date: Sun, 27 Dec 2009 20:14:42 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] PDF file Message-ID: <001501ca875b$24b4e8d0$0302a8c0@hometwxakonvzn> Does any one know of a good OCR I as a blind person can use for these types of files? RJ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 4uvwlm45ho2rbi45hbl3zl55[1].pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 6941730 bytes Desc: not available URL: From joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com Mon Dec 28 12:39:01 2009 From: joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com (RJ Sandefur) Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2009 07:39:01 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] testing Message-ID: <002d01ca87ba$bc237e70$0302a8c0@hometwxakonvzn> Testing this out. RJ From joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com Mon Dec 28 15:00:51 2009 From: joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com (RJ Sandefur) Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2009 10:00:51 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] question Message-ID: <005c01ca87ce$8e6be990$0302a8c0@hometwxakonvzn> Does any one know of an OCR program for PDFS which have been scaned? My email address is: joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com RJ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 4uvwlm45ho2rbi45hbl3zl55[1].pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 6941730 bytes Desc: not available URL: From joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com Mon Dec 28 15:25:59 2009 From: joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com (RJ Sandefur) Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2009 10:25:59 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] qiestion Message-ID: <000701ca87d2$11748010$0302a8c0@hometwxakonvzn> Does any one know of a good OCR that can read these types of files? My email is joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com RJ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 4uvwlm45ho2rbi45hbl3zl55[1].pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 6941730 bytes Desc: not available URL: From almomani at optonline.net Tue Dec 29 00:42:41 2009 From: almomani at optonline.net (Mudhaffer Al-Momani) Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2009 19:42:41 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] PDF file References: <001501ca875b$24b4e8d0$0302a8c0@hometwxakonvzn> Message-ID: Hi This is what I do Open the PDF file the print it out by pressing control P then choose vertual printer if you have Kersweil on your computer then hit enter. It will open it in Kersweil then you can read it or save it as a word document. Good luck Mudhaffer ----- Original Message ----- From: "RJ Sandefur" To: Sent: Sunday, December 27, 2009 8:14 PM Subject: [blindlaw] PDF file > Does any one know of a good OCR I as a blind person can use for these > types of files? RJ > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/almomani%40optonline.net > From dnepple at hotmail.com Tue Dec 29 02:05:38 2009 From: dnepple at hotmail.com (don nepple) Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2009 20:05:38 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] testing In-Reply-To: <002d01ca87ba$bc237e70$0302a8c0@hometwxakonvzn> References: <002d01ca87ba$bc237e70$0302a8c0@hometwxakonvzn> Message-ID: got your email good job.don frum idaho. > From: joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com > To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org > Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2009 07:39:01 -0500 > Subject: [blindlaw] testing > > Testing this out. RJ > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dnepple%40hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222986/direct/01/ From cjmc404 at gmail.com Tue Dec 29 06:13:49 2009 From: cjmc404 at gmail.com (cory McMahon) Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2009 00:13:49 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] testing References: <002d01ca87ba$bc237e70$0302a8c0@hometwxakonvzn> Message-ID: Message received. Cory ----- Original Message ----- From: "RJ Sandefur" To: Sent: Monday, December 28, 2009 6:39 AM Subject: [blindlaw] testing > Testing this out. RJ > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cjmc404%40gmail.com From dandrews at visi.com Tue Dec 29 06:25:47 2009 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2009 00:25:47 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] PDF file In-Reply-To: <001501ca875b$24b4e8d0$0302a8c0@hometwxakonvzn> References: <001501ca875b$24b4e8d0$0302a8c0@hometwxakonvzn> Message-ID: This list is not a technology list, but for discussion of blindness and the law. Dave At 07:14 PM 12/27/2009, you wrote: >Does any one know of a good OCR I as a blind person can use for >these types of files? RJ > > >__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus >signature database 4723 (20091228) __________ > >The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > >http://www.eset.com > > > >_______________________________________________ >blindlaw mailing list >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >for blindlaw: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40visi.com From deepa.goraya at gmail.com Tue Dec 29 08:58:36 2009 From: deepa.goraya at gmail.com (Deepa Goraya) Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2009 03:58:36 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] a friend in need of a lawyer Message-ID: Hello List, My friend Angela Garey is battling in court for custody over her son. She is almost totally blind and so far the court has only granted her visitation rights and has given full custody to the father who is sighted. She is due back in court in mid January and cannot afford a lawyer. The father, however, has an attorney. Is there anyone in southern California who can take her case or does anyone know of any attorneys who can? Her case will take place in Riverside. Please contact me for more info. Thanks so much, Deepa Goraya From stiehm.law at juno.com Tue Dec 29 14:43:24 2009 From: stiehm.law at juno.com (stiehm.law) Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2009 09:43:24 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] PDF file Message-ID: <20091229.064330.428.140252@mailpop05.vgs.untd.com> Is there a technology list and how does one subscribe? Patrick H. Stiehm Stiehm Law Office Alexandria, VA 22309 703-360-1089 (Voice) 703-935-8266 (Fax) On Tue, 29 Dec 2009 00:25:47 -0600 David Andrews writes: > This list is not a technology list, but for discussion of blindness > and the law. > > Dave > > At 07:14 PM 12/27/2009, you wrote: > >Does any one know of a good OCR I as a blind person can use for > >these types of files? RJ > > ____________________________________________________________ Diet Help Cheap Diet Help Tips. Click here. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/c?cp=pMGT45yQb0F_5_YcCzr7ZwAAJ1BdROy9vkzpR6E_Fj7jZTbnAAYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYQAAAAAA= From DFrye at nfb.org Tue Dec 29 15:02:25 2009 From: DFrye at nfb.org (Frye, Dan) Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2009 10:02:25 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] 2010 Jacobus tenBroek Law Symposium Announcement Message-ID: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6B01D40407@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local> List Colleagues: Lou Ann Blake, the NFB's Jacobus tenBroek Law Symposium coordinator, has asked that I post the following announcement about the 2010 expanded event here. We do seem able to attract a high caliber of participants to this event, which seems to have become an annual affair within the legal disability community. She urges as many as are able and inclined from this list to make plans to participate in this function during the spring. The announcement is pasted below in the text of this message and is also attached for your reference and for further distribution. Thank you. The announcement follows: Assistant Attorney General for Civil Rights Tom Perez and Former Congressman Tony Coelho are Keynote Speakers for the 2010 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium Equality, Difference, and the Right to Live in the World April 15-16, 2010 at the National Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute Baltimore, Maryland Assistant Attorney General for Civil Rights Tom Perez and former Congressman Tony Coelho head the list of distinguished law professors, practitioners, and advocates who will discuss the concepts of equality and difference as they relate to the disabled in employment, education, medical treatment, and access to technology. With an expanded format to incorporate workshops, the 2010 symposium will provide more time for discussion, collaboration, and networking. 2010 plenary session presenters: * Adrienne Asch, Director, Center for Ethics, Yeshiva University * Dan Brock, Director, Division of Medical Ethics, Harvard Medical School * Richard Brown, Chief Judge, Wisconsin Court of Appeals * David Ferleger, Esquire, Law Office of David Ferleger * Dan Goldstein, Partner, Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP * Andrew Imparato, President and CEO, American Association of People with Disabilities * Leslie Seid Margolis, Managing Attorney, Education Unit, Maryland Disability Law Center * Mark Weber, Vincent dePaul Professor of Law, DePaul University College of Law 2010 workshop facilitators: * Charles Brown, Director, Volunteer Lawyers for the Blind, American Action Fund for Blind Children and Adults * Ira Burnim, Legal Director, Bazelon Center for Mental Health Law * Claudia Center, Senior Staff Attorney, The Legal Aid Society Employment Law Center * Marc Charmatz, Senior Attorney, National Association of the Deaf * Robert Dinerstein, Professor of Law and Director of Clinical Programs, American University Washington College of Law * Eve Hill, Senior Vice President, Burton Blatt Institute * Sharon Krevor-Weisbaum, Partner, Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP * Christopher Kuczynski, Esquire, Equal Employment Opportunity Commission * Jennifer Mathis, Deputy Legal Director, Bazelon Center for Mental Health Law * Ruby Moore, Executive Director, Georgia Advocacy Office, Inc. * Ari Ne'eman, President, Autistic Self-Advocacy Network * Steven Schwartz, Executive Director, Center for Public Representation Documentation for CLE credits will be provided. Registration fee: $175 Student registration fee: $25 A limited number of scholarships to cover the registration fee will be available to individuals with demonstrated financial need. To learn more about the symposium and symposium sponsorship opportunities, view the agenda, and register online, please visit http://www.nfb.org/nfb/Law_Symposium.asp . You may also download from this Web site a registration form to mail or fax. Hotel information is also available on the symposium Web site. For additional information, contact: Lou Ann Blake, JD Law Symposium Coordinator Jacobus tenBroek Library Jernigan Institute NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND 200 East Wells Street at Jernigan Place Baltimore, Maryland 21230 Telephone: 410-659-9314, ext. 2221 E-mail: lblake at nfb.org *********************** Daniel B. Frye, J.D. Associate Editor The Braille Monitor National Federation of the Blind Office of the President 200 East Wells Street at Jernigan Place Baltimore, Maryland 21230 Telephone: (410) 659-9314 Ext. 2208 Mobile: (410) 241-7006 Fax: (410) 685-5653 Email: DFrye at nfb.org Web Address: www.nfb.org "Voice of the Nation's Blind" The Braille literacy crisis in America jeopardizes opportunities for blind people throughout the country. You can be part of the solution. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 2010 symposium promotional e-mail.doc Type: application/msword Size: 31744 bytes Desc: 2010 symposium promotional e-mail.doc URL: From rthomas at rjtlawfirm.com Wed Dec 30 13:33:49 2009 From: rthomas at rjtlawfirm.com (Russell J. Thomas, Jr.) Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2009 05:33:49 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] a friend in need of a lawyer In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4D7F1573307442C38F35D3C877748E67@russ> Contact the Riverside County Bar Association and see if they have a lawyer referral service, or a list of attorneys who will take cases on a pro bono basis. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Deepa Goraya Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 12:59 AM To: blindlaw Subject: [blindlaw] a friend in need of a lawyer Hello List, My friend Angela Garey is battling in court for custody over her son. She is almost totally blind and so far the court has only granted her visitation rights and has given full custody to the father who is sighted. She is due back in court in mid January and cannot afford a lawyer. The father, however, has an attorney. Is there anyone in southern California who can take her case or does anyone know of any attorneys who can? Her case will take place in Riverside. Please contact me for more info. Thanks so much, Deepa Goraya _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rthomas%40rjtlawfi rm.com From craig.borne at dot.gov Wed Dec 30 13:39:55 2009 From: craig.borne at dot.gov (craig.borne at dot.gov) Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2009 08:39:55 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Tampa, FL Area Collections Attorney Needed In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <74679E5C9A6C114F9793FAD7217A7A0CAC73AB@OSTMAIL03VS3.ad.dot.gov> Hello list, Can anyone refer to me a collections/contracts attorney in the Tampa, Florida area for some plaintiff's work? Thank you, Craig From mike.sandi at comcast.net Wed Dec 30 15:17:26 2009 From: mike.sandi at comcast.net (Mike Groat) Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2009 07:17:26 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] blindlaw Digest, Vol 67, Issue 26 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Morning all, I use Adobe Acrobat 9 to create and read PDF files. I chose it because it is fully functional with the keyboard. I like the ability to print files to the PDF format. Also there is a convert feature that allows many files to be converted to the PDF format. I use Openbook to for scanning documents into MS Word. The Openbook has the Freedom Import Printer that allows the PDF file to be printed into a text file. The screen reader, JAWS, works very well with the Acrobat 9. I have found the print to PDF feature to be very useful when printing emails in to a PDF file for saving and/or sending as an attachment to someone. I have researched other PDF creators, but they required the use of a mouse. The Adobe Acrobat 9 is available in a trial version which allows for testing for an individual's requirements. I hope that this helps. For further details, please contact me offline at mike.sandi at comcast.net Michael -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of blindlaw-request at nfbnet.org Sent: Sunday, December 27, 2009 5:17 PM To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org Subject: blindlaw Digest, Vol 67, Issue 26 Send blindlaw mailing list submissions to blindlaw at nfbnet.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to blindlaw-request at nfbnet.org You can reach the person managing the list at blindlaw-owner at nfbnet.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of blindlaw digest..." Today's Topics: 1. PDF file (RJ Sandefur) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Sun, 27 Dec 2009 20:14:42 -0500 From: "RJ Sandefur" Subject: [blindlaw] PDF file To: Message-ID: <001501ca875b$24b4e8d0$0302a8c0 at hometwxakonvzn> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Does any one know of a good OCR I as a blind person can use for these types of files? RJ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 4uvwlm45ho2rbi45hbl3zl55[1].pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 6941730 bytes Desc: not available URL: ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org End of blindlaw Digest, Vol 67, Issue 26 **************************************** From t.l.cantrell at comcast.net Wed Dec 30 19:57:41 2009 From: t.l.cantrell at comcast.net (tammy cantrell) Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2009 13:57:41 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] Intro and request for assistance Message-ID: <017101ca898a$58b17f00$b2f16b4c@ownera23efd7c3> Hello! My name is Tammy. I was referred to this list because I am trying to help a College student with a challenging problem. I do look forward to hearing your comments and suggestions. I will just copy my email that got me pointed in your direction. Thanks so much for your help! Hello! I am looking for some input on behalf of a College student. I will share her story and hopefully somebody would offer some suggestions or a resource. This student is blind and is currently working on a bachelor's degree in Political Science. Her plans are to become a lawyer. She has tried to participate in Mock Trials but has met up with problems. The professor says she can only be the witness but because she is blind she can not be the lawyer. He says since she can't quickly read through the documents, she will not be able to question the witness and present her case. This student has high expectations for herself and I hate to see her fall short of her goals because of discrimination or ignorance. I have been given permission to share her email address; soldiergirl2010 at aol.com If you would be willing to share ideas with her, it would be so very much appreciated! If you don't have ideas and know somebody that might, please pass this on to them. Your help is greatly needed. Thanks for all of your help! Smile! GOD loves you! From editor.nftb at gmail.com Wed Dec 30 19:59:09 2009 From: editor.nftb at gmail.com (Will May) Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2009 14:59:09 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] question In-Reply-To: <005c01ca87ce$8e6be990$0302a8c0@hometwxakonvzn> References: <005c01ca87ce$8e6be990$0302a8c0@hometwxakonvzn> Message-ID: I don't think OCR can work on PDF without printing out and flatbedding.... Do you need something read to you; Send it, and I will send you an MP3 of the audible verbatim transcription....Will On Mon, Dec 28, 2009 at 10:00 AM, RJ Sandefur wrote: > Does any one know of an OCR program for PDFS which have been scaned? My email address is: joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com > RJ > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/editor.nftb%40gmail.com > > From craig.borne at dot.gov Wed Dec 30 20:05:18 2009 From: craig.borne at dot.gov (craig.borne at dot.gov) Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2009 15:05:18 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] PDF file In-Reply-To: References: <001501ca875b$24b4e8d0$0302a8c0@hometwxakonvzn> Message-ID: <74679E5C9A6C114F9793FAD7217A7A0CAC7411@OSTMAIL03VS3.ad.dot.gov> RJ -- Kurzweil is expensive, if you don't already have it. The ABBYYY Fine Reader is cheaper than Kurzweil; probably around $400. If you have Adobe professional, there is an internal OCR that works pretty well. I know there are some free websites that will convert PDFs to text, but I haven't used any of these. Craig Craig Borne NHTSA/DOT (202) 493-0627 craig.borne at dot.gov ----- Original Message ----- From: "RJ Sandefur" To: Sent: Sunday, December 27, 2009 8:14 PM Subject: [blindlaw] PDF file > Does any one know of a good OCR I as a blind person can use for these > types of files? RJ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------- > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/almomani%40opt online.net > _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/craig.borne%40 dot.gov From joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com Wed Dec 30 21:21:20 2009 From: joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com (RJ Sandefur) Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2009 16:21:20 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] PDF file References: <001501ca875b$24b4e8d0$0302a8c0@hometwxakonvzn> Message-ID: <001201ca8996$085ca730$0302a8c0@hometwxakonvzn> I don't have courswall. How long does it take to print out this document on verchoal pinteral? RJ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mudhaffer Al-Momani" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Monday, December 28, 2009 7:42 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] PDF file > Hi > This is what I do > Open the PDF file the print it out by pressing control P then choose > vertual printer if you have Kersweil on your computer then hit enter. It > will open it in Kersweil then you can read it or save it as a word > document. > Good luck > Mudhaffer > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "RJ Sandefur" > To: > Sent: Sunday, December 27, 2009 8:14 PM > Subject: [blindlaw] PDF file > > >> Does any one know of a good OCR I as a blind person can use for these >> types of files? RJ >> > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/almomani%40optonline.net >> > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com From joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com Thu Dec 31 12:01:57 2009 From: joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com (RJ Sandefur) Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2009 07:01:57 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] PDF file References: <001501ca875b$24b4e8d0$0302a8c0@hometwxakonvzn> <74679E5C9A6C114F9793FAD7217A7A0CAC7411@OSTMAIL03VS3.ad.dot.gov> Message-ID: <000501ca8a11$0e18bda0$0302a8c0@hometwxakonvzn> I have abb, but am not shure how to use it. RJ ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 3:05 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] PDF file > RJ -- > > Kurzweil is expensive, if you don't already have it. The ABBYYY Fine > Reader is cheaper than Kurzweil; probably around $400. If you have > Adobe professional, there is an internal OCR that works pretty well. > > I know there are some free websites that will convert PDFs to text, but > I haven't used any of these. > > Craig > > Craig Borne > NHTSA/DOT > (202) 493-0627 > craig.borne at dot.gov > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "RJ Sandefur" > To: > Sent: Sunday, December 27, 2009 8:14 PM > Subject: [blindlaw] PDF file > > >> Does any one know of a good OCR I as a blind person can use for these >> types of files? RJ >> > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > -------- > > >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/almomani%40opt > online.net >> > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/craig.borne%40 > dot.gov > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com From joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com Thu Dec 31 14:12:29 2009 From: joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com (RJ Sandefur) Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2009 09:12:29 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Messege for will Message-ID: <000d01ca8a23$4a2ef400$0302a8c0@hometwxakonvzn> Well, What is your email adress, and I'll email the file to you. RJ From mahdighafoori at gmail.com Thu Dec 31 14:40:48 2009 From: mahdighafoori at gmail.com (Mahdi Ghafoori) Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2009 19:10:48 +0430 Subject: [blindlaw] Congratulation Message-ID: <242AB9CE51374DD7A4770EB55F571989@pc> Hello, I've just liked to send my warm congratulation for the beginning of the new year. I hope this new year is full of success and happiness for you and peace and wealth for the world. Happy new year, Sincerely, Mahdi Tehran- Iran __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4537 (20091023) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4537 (20091023) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4537 (20091023) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From rjaquiss at earthlink.net Thu Dec 31 15:17:20 2009 From: rjaquiss at earthlink.net (Robert Jaquiss) Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2009 09:17:20 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] question References: <005c01ca87ce$8e6be990$0302a8c0@hometwxakonvzn> Message-ID: Hello: I know this is a technology topic on the law list, but since attorneys deal with unique types of documents, here is a brief answer. Unreadable PDF files can be sent through Kurzweil K1000 and I think Openbook software. There is no need for print and scanning. In fact, this should be avoided since it will introduce more errors. Hope this makes sense. Happy Holidays, Robert Jaquiss, Member Committee on Research and DEvelopment National Federation of the Blind Email: rjaquiss at earthlink.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "Will May" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 1:59 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] question >I don't think OCR can work on PDF without printing out and flatbedding.... > > Do you need something read to you; Send it, and I will send you an MP3 > of the audible verbatim transcription....Will > > On Mon, Dec 28, 2009 at 10:00 AM, RJ Sandefur > wrote: >> Does any one know of an OCR program for PDFS which have been scaned? My >> email address is: joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com >> RJ >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/editor.nftb%40gmail.com >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rjaquiss%40earthlink.net From rthomas at rjtlawfirm.com Thu Dec 31 16:56:11 2009 From: rthomas at rjtlawfirm.com (Russell J. Thomas, Jr.) Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2009 08:56:11 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] question In-Reply-To: References: <005c01ca87ce$8e6be990$0302a8c0@hometwxakonvzn> Message-ID: PDF converter will do it. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Will May Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 11:59 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] question I don't think OCR can work on PDF without printing out and flatbedding.... Do you need something read to you; Send it, and I will send you an MP3 of the audible verbatim transcription....Will On Mon, Dec 28, 2009 at 10:00 AM, RJ Sandefur wrote: > Does any one know of an OCR program for PDFS which have been scaned? My email address is: joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com > RJ > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/editor.nftb%40gmai l.com > > _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rthomas%40rjtlawfi rm.com From craig.borne at dot.gov Thu Dec 31 17:10:09 2009 From: craig.borne at dot.gov (craig.borne at dot.gov) Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2009 12:10:09 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] PDF file In-Reply-To: References: <001501ca875b$24b4e8d0$0302a8c0@hometwxakonvzn> Message-ID: <74679E5C9A6C114F9793FAD7217A7A0CAC7446@OSTMAIL03VS3.ad.dot.gov> Dave, If one who is blind is to be a successful attorney, isn't the knowledge of what that individual's colleagues are doing with respect to greater access of documents on topic? This list has always been not only for the discussion of blindness and the law but a list for blind attorneys to collaborate and not reinvent the wheel. In my humble opinion, if questions related to converting legal documents sent as PDFs is off topic, then perhaps the participation by non-attorneys or non-legal professionals/law students on this list is also not appropriate? Respectfully, Craig Craig Borne, Esq. NHTSA/DOT (202) 493-0627 craig.borne at dot.gov -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of David Andrews Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 1:26 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] PDF file This list is not a technology list, but for discussion of blindness and the law. Dave At 07:14 PM 12/27/2009, you wrote: >Does any one know of a good OCR I as a blind person can use for >these types of files? RJ > > >__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus >signature database 4723 (20091228) __________ > >The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > >http://www.eset.com > > > >_______________________________________________ >blindlaw mailing list >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >for blindlaw: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40vi si.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/craig.borne%40 dot.gov From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov Thu Dec 31 17:58:13 2009 From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel) Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2009 11:58:13 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] FW: Attorney Vacancies at the U.S. Department of Justice Message-ID: ________________________________ From: jobs-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:jobs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Maurer, Patricia Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 12:39 PM To: jobs at nfbnet.org Subject: [Jobs] FW: Attorney Vacancies at the U.S. Department of Justice ________________________________ From: Hunter, Sue [mailto:Sue.Hunter at usdoj.gov] Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 2:34 PM To: mail at dallashispanicbar.com; mail at equaljusticeworks.org; mail at naicja.org; main at aabany.org; MamieLDavis at msn.com; Maricela.Siew at bakernet.com; mcalvet at morganlewis.com; mcle at vsb.org; mcox at law.miami.edu; mdalal at mhmlaw.com; mdsaa at bellatlantic.net; meiklejohns at sullcrom.com; melissa-tatum at tulsa.edu; mike at imba.com; Mikediv201 at aol.com; minorities at abanet.org; mjain at gdblegal.com; mlorenzo at graycary.com; nawl at nawl.org; ncai at ncai.org; nedy at wyjlaw.com; newmedia at ja.org; Neysas at dnfsb.gov; Maurer, Patricia Subject: FW: Attorney Vacancies at the U.S. Department of Justice To learn more about our attorneys and what they like most about working at DOJ, please visit our attorney profiles at, http://www.usdoj.gov/oarm/arm/profiles.htm, and the video clips of our attorneys and interns available at https://www.avuedigitalservices.com/ads/jobsatdojoarm/index.jsp We encourage you to share this email with interested colleagues and peers. If you no longer wish to receive these periodic email announcements, please respond to this email address and ask to be removed from our mailing list. Thank you. Current Department of Justice Attorney Vacancies * U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE OFFICE OF LEGAL POLICY EXPERIENCED ATTORNEY / GS-14/15 ANNOUNCEMENT NUMBER OLP-ATY-012 Applications must be received by December 31, 2009. Date posted: 12-24-2009 * U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE OFFICE OF LEGAL COUNSEL SEEKS EXPERIENCED ATTORNEYS TO SERVE A ONE YEAR, NON-REIMBURSABLE DETAIL All applications must be received in the Office of Legal Counsel by the close of business January 29, 2010. Date posted: 12-24-2009 * ASSISTANT UNITED STATES ATTORNEY CRIMINAL DIVISION, UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE MIDDLE DISTRICT OF TENNESSEE 10-MDTN-01 Cover letter and resume must be received by January 15, 2010. Date posted: 12-24-2009 * TRIAL ATTORNEY(GS-0905-13/14/15) PUBLIC INTEGRITY SECTION WASHINGTON, DC 09-CRM-PIN-054 Applications must be postmarked by January 14, 2010. Date posted: 12-24-2009 * FEDERAL BUREAU OF PRISONS OFFICE OF GENERAL COUNSEL LABOR LAW BRANCH ATTORNEY-ADVISOR GS-905-12/13/14 This position is open until filled, but no later than January 6, 2010. Date posted: 12-24-2009 * EXPERIENCED WHITE-COLLAR CRIMINAL ATTORNEY (GS-0905-13/14/15) FRAUD SECTION CRIMINAL DIVISION U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE WASHINGTON, DC 09-CRM-FRD-053 Applications will be accepted until January 15, 2010. Date posted: 12-23-2009 * TRIAL ATTORNEY (GS-0905-13/14/15) DOMESTIC SECURITY SECTION/OFFICE OF SPECIAL INVESTIGATIONS WASHINGTON, DC VACANCY ANNOUNCEMENT NUMBER: 09-CRM-DSS-052 The positions are open until February 26, 2010. The initial cut-off date for the receipt of applications is January 8, 2010. Date posted: 12-23-2009 * EXPERIENCED ATTORNEY(GS-0905-/14/15) DIRECTOR OF ELECTION CRIMES BRANCH PUBLIC INTEGRITY SECTION WASHINGTON, DC 09-CRM-PIN-051 Applications must be postmarked by January 29, 2010. Date posted: 12-18-2009 * U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE OFFICE OF INFORMATION POLICY EXPERIENCED ATTORNEY / GS-12 ANNOUNCEMENT NUMBER OIP-09-005 This position is open until filled, but applications must be received no later than January 7, 2010. Date posted: 12-17-2009 * IMMIGRATION JUDGE EXECUTIVE OFFICE FOR IMMIGRATION REVIEW OAKDALE, LA VACANCY ANNOUNCEMENT NUMBER: EOIR-10-0064 All applications must be received in the Human Resources Office by the close of business on January 5, 2010. Date posted: 12-16-2009 * ASSISTANT U.S. ATTORNEY U.S. ATTORNEY'S OFFICE EASTERN DISTRICT OF TEXAS PLANO, TEXAS VACANCY ANNOUNCEMENT NO: 10-EDTX-07 (AUSA) OPENING DATE: DECEMBER 16, 2009 CLOSING DATE: DECEMBER 31, 2009 Applications must be received by 5:00 p.m. Central Standard/Daylight Time on December 31, 2009. Date posted: 12-16-2009 * SPECIAL ASSISTANT UNITED STATES ATTORNEY VACANCY UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE - NORTHERN DISTRICT OF IOWA & OFFICE OF THE LINN COUNTY ATTORNEY ANNOUNCEMENT NUMBER: 2010-SAUSA-NDIA-01 Hand-carried applications must be received by 12/31/2009 mailed applications must be postmarked by 12/31/2009. Date posted: 12-16-2009 * IMMIGRATION JUDGE EXECUTIVE OFFICE FOR IMMIGRATION REVIEW EL PASO SPC, TX VACANCY ANNOUNCEMENT NUMBER: EOIR-10-0063 All applications must be received in the Human Resources Office by the close of business on January 5, 2010. Date posted: 12-16-2009 * IMMIGRATION JUDGE EXECUTIVE OFFICE FOR IMMIGRATION REVIEW PEARSALL, TX VACANCY ANNOUNCEMENT NUMBER: EOIR-10-0062 All applications must be received in the Human Resources Office by the close of business on January 5, 2010. Date posted: 12-16-2009 * IMMIGRATION JUDGE EXECUTIVE OFFICE FOR IMMIGRATION REVIEW EAST MESA, CA VACANCY ANNOUNCEMENT NUMBER: EOIR-10-0061 All applications must be received in the Human Resources Office by the close of business on January 5, 2010. Date posted: 12-16-2009 * IMMIGRATION JUDGE EXECUTIVE OFFICE FOR IMMIGRATION REVIEW CHARLOTTE, NC VACANCY ANNOUNCEMENT NUMBER: EOIR-10-0060 All applications must be received in the Human Resources Office by the close of business on January 5, 2010. Date posted: 12-16-2009 * UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE EASTERN DISTRICT OF CALIFORNIA ASSISTANT UNITED STATES ATTORNEY SACREMENTO, CALIFORNIA DECEMBER 15, 2009 10-EDCA-07A Applications should be postmarked no later than Wednesday, December 30, 2009. Date posted: 12-15-2009 The purpose of this email is to advise potential interested persons of employment opportunities at the Department of Justice. The Department of Justice cannot control further dissemination and/or posting of this information. Such posting and/or dissemination is not an endorsement by the Department of the organization or group disseminating and/or posting the information. -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Jobs mailing list Jobs at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/jobs_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Jobs: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/jobs_nfbnet.org/noel.nightingale%40ed.gov From dandrews at visi.com Thu Dec 31 22:40:20 2009 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2009 16:40:20 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] PDF file In-Reply-To: <20091229.064330.428.140252@mailpop05.vgs.untd.com> References: <20091229.064330.428.140252@mailpop05.vgs.untd.com> Message-ID: Yes, there are several -- but probably the most general one is gui-talk, for the discussion of the graphical user interface, windows etc. To subscribe either go to: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gui-talk_nfbnet.org or send e-mail to gui-talk-request at nfbnet.org and put the word subscribe in the subject line. Dave At 08:43 AM 12/29/2009, you wrote: > Is there a technology list and how does one subscribe? > >Patrick H. Stiehm >Stiehm Law Office >Alexandria, VA 22309 >703-360-1089 (Voice) >703-935-8266 (Fax) > >On Tue, 29 Dec 2009 00:25:47 -0600 David Andrews >writes: > > This list is not a technology list, but for discussion of blindness > > and the law. > > > > Dave > > > > At 07:14 PM 12/27/2009, you wrote: > > >Does any one know of a good OCR I as a blind person can use for > > >these types of files? RJ > > > >____________________________________________________________ >Diet Help >Cheap Diet Help Tips. Click here. >http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/c?cp=pMGT45yQb0F_5_YcCzr7ZwAAJ1BdROy9vkzpR6E_Fj7jZTbnAAYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYQAAAAAA= > >_______________________________________________ >blindlaw mailing list >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >for blindlaw: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40visi.com > > >__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus >signature database 4732 (20091231) __________ > >The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > >http://www.eset.com From joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com Thu Dec 31 23:49:52 2009 From: joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com (RJ Sandefur) Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2009 18:49:52 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Intro and request for assistance References: <017101ca898a$58b17f00$b2f16b4c@ownera23efd7c3> Message-ID: <000c01ca8a73$f2e3d4d0$0302a8c0@hometwxakonvzn> I think the professior is mis guided, and she is going to have to sho this professior she can do what is expected. RJ ----- Original Message ----- From: "tammy cantrell" To: Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 2:57 PM Subject: [blindlaw] Intro and request for assistance > Hello! > My name is Tammy. I was referred to this list because I am trying to help > a College student with a challenging problem. I do look forward to > hearing your comments and suggestions. I will just copy my email that got > me pointed in your direction. Thanks so much for your help! > Hello! > I am looking for some input on behalf of a College student. I will share > her story and hopefully somebody would offer some suggestions or a > resource. > > This student is blind and is currently working on a bachelor's degree in > Political Science. Her plans are to become a lawyer. She has tried to > participate in Mock Trials but has met up with problems. The professor > says she can only be the witness but because she is blind she can not be > the lawyer. He says since she can't quickly read through the documents, > she will not be able to question the witness and present her case. > > This student has high expectations for herself and I hate to see her fall > short of her goals because of discrimination or ignorance. > > I have been given permission to share her email address; > soldiergirl2010 at aol.com > > If you would be willing to share ideas with her, it would be so very much > appreciated! If you don't have ideas and know somebody that might, please > pass this on to them. Your help is greatly needed. > > Thanks for all of your help! > Smile! GOD loves you! > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com From jimi-law at dc.rr.com Tue Dec 1 18:00:51 2009 From: jimi-law at dc.rr.com (James Weisberg) Date: Tue, 1 Dec 2009 10:00:51 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel Message-ID: <6DADEA76DA0C4638934878F4CD771EB9@screnci.local> Hi Folks: Anyone on the lists have experience or knowledge regarding the ADA and suits against air carriers for violations available for quick consult? Thanks. James W. Weisberg, Esq. Law Office of J. William Weisberg 299 South Patencio Road #3 Palm Springs, California 92262 V: 916.425.1010 F: 916.374.7667 E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com Admitted in Wisconsin Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil Rights Advocacy for Children with Diabetes This message contains information which may be confidential and privileged. Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from your system. This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client relationship nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William Weisberg expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in accordance with this disclaimer. From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov Tue Dec 1 17:59:02 2009 From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel) Date: Tue, 1 Dec 2009 11:59:02 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] FW: Southeast DBTAC Director Position Opening Message-ID: ________________________________ From: CMPDL's Disability Discussion Docket (3D) [mailto:CMPDL-3D at MAIL.ABANET.ORG] On Behalf Of Phelan, William Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 7:12 AM To: CMPDL-3D at MAIL.ABANET.ORG Subject: FW: Southeast DBTAC Director Position Opening Job position in Atlanta, GA. See below. William J. Phelan, IV, Esq. Special Projects and Technology Coordinator Commission on Mental and Physical Disability Law American Bar Association 740 15th Street, NW, 9th Floor Washington, DC 20005-1022 T: 202.662.1576 F: 202.442.3439 phelanw at staff.abanet.org www.abanet.org/disability ________________________________ From: Eve L Hill [mailto:ehill at law.syr.edu] Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 10:20 AM To: Eve L Hill Subject: Southeast DBTAC Director Position Opening Hi all I'm sorry to bother you right before the holiday. But I'm trying to get the word out about a really good job opening at the Burton Blatt Institute. The Director position for the Southeast DBTAC ADA Center is open. It's located in Atlanta. The job description is attached, but I'd be happy to talk to anyone who might be interested. It's really a good job and a good opportunity to make change in the disability rights field. Happy Thanksgiving! Thank you. Eve Eve Hill, Esq. Senior Vice President Burton Blatt Institute 1667 K St. NW Suite 640 Washington, DC 20006 (202) 296-2044 ehill at law.syr.edu This e-mail may contain confidential information that may also be legally privileged and that is intended only for the use of the Addressee(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient or an authorized agent of the recipient, please be advised that any dissemination or copying of this e-mail, or taking of any action in reliance on the information contained herein, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify me immediately by use of the Reply button, and then delete the e-mail from your system. Thank you! --------- Going to respond to this message? Be sure to hit "Reply All" when doing so. [http://www.abanet.org/disability/images/3Dlogo.jpg] Disability Discussion Docket (3D) ABA Commission on Mental and Physical Disability Law http://www.abanet.org/disability --------- To leave this list at any time, please send a message to listserv at mail.abanet.org. In the body of the message type "sign off cmpdl-3d." If you have any questions about 3D or the CMPDL in general, please contact William Phelan at phelanw at staff.abanet.org. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: DBTAC Director Position Announcement.doc Type: application/msword Size: 27136 bytes Desc: DBTAC Director Position Announcement.doc URL: From jimi-law at dc.rr.com Tue Dec 1 18:04:56 2009 From: jimi-law at dc.rr.com (James Weisberg) Date: Tue, 1 Dec 2009 10:04:56 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] ada and air travel Message-ID: Hi Folks: Anyone on the lists have experience or knowledge regarding the ADA and suits against air carriers for violations available for quick consult? Thanks James W. Weisberg, Esq. Law Office of J. William Weisberg 299 South Patencio Road #3 Palm Springs, California 92262 V: 916.425.1010 F: 916.374.7667 E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com Admitted in Wisconsin Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil Rights Advocacy for Children with Diabetes This message contains information which may be confidential and privileged. Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from your system. This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client relationship nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William Weisberg expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in accordance with this disclaimer. From rthomas at rjtlawfirm.com Tue Dec 1 19:30:37 2009 From: rthomas at rjtlawfirm.com (Russell J. Thomas, Jr.) Date: Tue, 1 Dec 2009 11:30:37 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel In-Reply-To: <6DADEA76DA0C4638934878F4CD771EB9@screnci.local> References: <6DADEA76DA0C4638934878F4CD771EB9@screnci.local> Message-ID: Off the top of my head, and without any new research, the only case I remember is a case challenging the accessibility of airline websites with respect to attempting to make reservations and ordering tickets on line. I also think that there are regulations on the subject, especially dealing with how disabled passengers are to be treated (or perhaps on some occasions mistreated). I often thought it would be a good idea for the NFB to put together a short guide book concerning travel, including air travel, based upon experiences of NFB members, to be used as a reference guide for blind people who use air travel. Certainly things have changed since 911--some changes for the good, and others not so good. Respectfully, Russell J. Thomas, Jr. THOMAS & ASSOCIATES www.californiaemployersattorneys.com Orange County Office 4121 Westerly Place, Suite 101 Newport Beach, California 92660 T: (949) 752-0101 F: (949) 257-4756 M: (949) 466-7238 Beverly Hills Office 9107 Wilshire Boulevard, Suite 450 Beverly Hills, California 90210 T: (310) 461-3561 -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of James Weisberg Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 10:01 AM To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel Hi Folks: Anyone on the lists have experience or knowledge regarding the ADA and suits against air carriers for violations available for quick consult? Thanks. James W. Weisberg, Esq. Law Office of J. William Weisberg 299 South Patencio Road #3 Palm Springs, California 92262 V: 916.425.1010 F: 916.374.7667 E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com Admitted in Wisconsin Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil Rights Advocacy for Children with Diabetes This message contains information which may be confidential and privileged. Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from your system. This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client relationship nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William Weisberg expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in accordance with this disclaimer. _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rthomas%40rjtlawfi rm.com From pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net Tue Dec 1 19:59:10 2009 From: pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net (Peter Donahue) Date: Tue, 1 Dec 2009 13:59:10 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] ada and air travel References: Message-ID: <003101ca72c0$c08b4380$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn> Good afternoon, The ADA does not apply to airlines. Airlines are covered by the United States Air Carrier Access Act, (ACAA.) I don't remember the exact numbers and such but if there are charges to be filed against an airline due to alleged discrimination against the disabled they must be brought under the Air Carrier Access Act, not the Americans With Disabilities Act. Here's hoping this puts you on the correct litigation path. Peter Donahue ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Weisberg" To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 12:04 PM Subject: [blindlaw] ada and air travel Hi Folks: Anyone on the lists have experience or knowledge regarding the ADA and suits against air carriers for violations available for quick consult? Thanks James W. Weisberg, Esq. Law Office of J. William Weisberg 299 South Patencio Road #3 Palm Springs, California 92262 V: 916.425.1010 F: 916.374.7667 E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com Admitted in Wisconsin Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil Rights Advocacy for Children with Diabetes This message contains information which may be confidential and privileged. Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from your system. This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client relationship nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William Weisberg expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in accordance with this disclaimer. _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglobal.net From stiehm.law at juno.com Tue Dec 1 20:57:43 2009 From: stiehm.law at juno.com (stiehm.law) Date: Tue, 1 Dec 2009 15:57:43 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel Message-ID: <20091201.125747.428.71023@mailpop05.vgs.untd.com> In addition to the airlines, I have recently become curious as to what if any, accommodations for the TSA makes with respect to disabled people going through security and being picked up by somebody at the gate at the terminal at the other end of the flight. For example, do they permit a blind person who is traveling alone to be accompanied through security, down to the airline check-in counter at the gate by a non-ticketed person. At the other end, is a non-ticketed person permitted through security to go to the gate to meet a blind person flying alone? If TSA does not provide for such accommodations do the airlines take it on themselves to provide this service? Has anybody had any experience in this regard? Is the accommodation, if any, voluntary on the part of the TSA and/or the airlines or is it governed by regulation? Patrick H. Stiehm Stiehm Law Office Alexandria, VA 22309 703-360-1089 (Voice) 703-935-8266 (Fax) Tue, 1 Dec 2009 11:30:37 -0800 "Russell J. Thomas, Jr." writes: > Off the top of my head, and without any new research, the only case > I > remember is a case challenging the accessibility of airline websites > with > respect to attempting to make reservations and ordering tickets on > line. > > I also think that there are regulations on the subject, especially > dealing > with how disabled passengers are to be treated (or perhaps on some > occasions > mistreated). > > I often thought it would be a good idea for the NFB to put together > a short > guide book concerning travel, including air travel, based upon > experiences > of NFB members, to be used as a reference guide for blind people who > use air > travel. Certainly things have changed since 911--some changes for > the good, > and others not so good. > > > > > Respectfully, > > > > Russell J. Thomas, Jr. > > THOMAS & ASSOCIATES > > www.californiaemployersattorneys.com > > > > Orange County Office > > 4121 Westerly Place, Suite 101 > > Newport Beach, California 92660 > > T: (949) 752-0101 > > F: (949) 257-4756 > > M: (949) 466-7238 > > > > Beverly Hills Office > > 9107 Wilshire Boulevard, Suite 450 > > Beverly Hills, California 90210 > > T: (310) 461-3561 > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of James Weisberg > Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 10:01 AM > To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' > Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > > Hi Folks: > > > > Anyone on the lists have experience or knowledge regarding the ADA > and suits > against air carriers for violations available for quick consult? > Thanks. > > > > James W. Weisberg, Esq. > > Law Office of J. William Weisberg > > 299 South Patencio Road #3 > > Palm Springs, California 92262 > > V: 916.425.1010 > > F: 916.374.7667 > > E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com > > Admitted in Wisconsin > > Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil > Rights > Advocacy for Children with Diabetes > > This message contains information which may be confidential and > privileged. > Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the > addressee), > you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any > information > contained in this message. If you have received this message in > error, > please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from > your > system. > > This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client > relationship > nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William > Weisberg > expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information > in > accordance with this disclaimer. > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rthomas%40rjtla wfi > rm.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stiehm.law%40ju no.com > ____________________________________________________________ Hotel Hotel pics, info and virtual tours. Click here to book a hotel online. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/c?cp=ewJKbyZ61QloDsW_i_oQ_wAAJ1BdROy9vkzpR6E_Fj7jZTbnAAYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAATRAAAAAA= From stevep.deeley at insightbb.com Tue Dec 1 22:41:01 2009 From: stevep.deeley at insightbb.com (Steve P. Deeley) Date: Tue, 1 Dec 2009 17:41:01 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] ada and air travel In-Reply-To: <003101ca72c0$c08b4380$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn> References: <003101ca72c0$c08b4380$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn> Message-ID: That is interesting. What sort of claims have been filed by blind individuals. What were some of the situations? Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Donahue" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 2:59 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ada and air travel > Good afternoon, > > The ADA does not apply to airlines. Airlines are covered by the United > States Air Carrier Access Act, (ACAA.) I don't remember the exact numbers > and such but if there are charges to be filed against an airline due to > alleged discrimination against the disabled they must be brought under the > Air Carrier Access Act, not the Americans With Disabilities Act. Here's > hoping this puts you on the correct litigation path. > > Peter Donahue > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "James Weisberg" > To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" > Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 12:04 PM > Subject: [blindlaw] ada and air travel > > > Hi Folks: > > > > Anyone on the lists have experience or knowledge regarding the ADA and > suits > against air carriers for violations available for quick consult? Thanks > > > > > > James W. Weisberg, Esq. > > Law Office of J. William Weisberg > > 299 South Patencio Road #3 > > Palm Springs, California 92262 > > V: 916.425.1010 > > F: 916.374.7667 > > E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com > > Admitted in Wisconsin > > Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil Rights > Advocacy for Children with Diabetes > > This message contains information which may be confidential and > privileged. > Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), > you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information > contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, > please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from your > system. > > This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client > relationship > nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William > Weisberg > expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in > accordance with this disclaimer. > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglobal.net > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.426 / Virus Database: 270.14.89/2539 - Release Date: 12/01/09 19:32:00 From stevep.deeley at insightbb.com Tue Dec 1 22:42:59 2009 From: stevep.deeley at insightbb.com (Steve P. Deeley) Date: Tue, 1 Dec 2009 17:42:59 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel In-Reply-To: <20091201.125747.428.71023@mailpop05.vgs.untd.com> References: <20091201.125747.428.71023@mailpop05.vgs.untd.com> Message-ID: <8611BFC2E17B41FC9A7317D4997CED77@StevePC> I've seen Sky Caps escort blind individuals and other persons with disabilities through security. These are usually individuals employed by the airport authority. ----- Original Message ----- From: "stiehm.law" To: Cc: Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 3:57 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > In addition to the airlines, I have recently become curious as to what if > any, accommodations for the TSA makes with respect to disabled people > going through security and being picked up by somebody at the gate at the > terminal at the other end of the flight. For example, do they permit a > blind person who is traveling alone to be accompanied through security, > down to the airline check-in counter at the gate by a non-ticketed > person. > > At the other end, is a non-ticketed person permitted through security to > go to the gate to meet a blind person flying alone? > > If TSA does not provide for such accommodations do the airlines take it > on themselves to provide this service? > > Has anybody had any experience in this regard? Is the accommodation, if > any, voluntary on the part of the TSA and/or the airlines or is it > governed by regulation? > > Patrick H. Stiehm > Stiehm Law Office > Alexandria, VA 22309 > 703-360-1089 (Voice) > 703-935-8266 (Fax) > > > > Tue, 1 Dec 2009 11:30:37 -0800 "Russell J. Thomas, Jr." > writes: >> Off the top of my head, and without any new research, the only case >> I >> remember is a case challenging the accessibility of airline websites >> with >> respect to attempting to make reservations and ordering tickets on >> line. >> >> I also think that there are regulations on the subject, especially >> dealing >> with how disabled passengers are to be treated (or perhaps on some >> occasions >> mistreated). >> >> I often thought it would be a good idea for the NFB to put together >> a short >> guide book concerning travel, including air travel, based upon >> experiences >> of NFB members, to be used as a reference guide for blind people who >> use air >> travel. Certainly things have changed since 911--some changes for >> the good, >> and others not so good. >> >> >> >> >> Respectfully, >> >> >> >> Russell J. Thomas, Jr. >> >> THOMAS & ASSOCIATES >> >> www.californiaemployersattorneys.com >> >> >> >> Orange County Office >> >> 4121 Westerly Place, Suite 101 >> >> Newport Beach, California 92660 >> >> T: (949) 752-0101 >> >> F: (949) 257-4756 >> >> M: (949) 466-7238 >> >> >> >> Beverly Hills Office >> >> 9107 Wilshire Boulevard, Suite 450 >> >> Beverly Hills, California 90210 >> >> T: (310) 461-3561 >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf Of James Weisberg >> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 10:01 AM >> To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' >> Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel >> >> Hi Folks: >> >> >> >> Anyone on the lists have experience or knowledge regarding the ADA >> and suits >> against air carriers for violations available for quick consult? >> Thanks. >> >> >> >> James W. Weisberg, Esq. >> >> Law Office of J. William Weisberg >> >> 299 South Patencio Road #3 >> >> Palm Springs, California 92262 >> >> V: 916.425.1010 >> >> F: 916.374.7667 >> >> E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com >> >> Admitted in Wisconsin >> >> Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil >> Rights >> Advocacy for Children with Diabetes >> >> This message contains information which may be confidential and >> privileged. >> Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the >> addressee), >> you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any >> information >> contained in this message. If you have received this message in >> error, >> please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from >> your >> system. >> >> This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client >> relationship >> nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William >> Weisberg >> expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information >> in >> accordance with this disclaimer. >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for >> blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rthomas%40rjtla > wfi >> rm.com >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stiehm.law%40ju > no.com >> > > ____________________________________________________________ > Hotel > Hotel pics, info and virtual tours. Click here to book a hotel online. > http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/c?cp=ewJKbyZ61QloDsW_i_oQ_wAAJ1BdROy9vkzpR6E_Fj7jZTbnAAYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAATRAAAAAA= > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.426 / Virus Database: 270.14.89/2539 - Release Date: 12/01/09 19:32:00 From ukekearuaro at valtdnet.com Tue Dec 1 22:52:20 2009 From: ukekearuaro at valtdnet.com (Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc.) Date: Tue, 1 Dec 2009 15:52:20 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel References: <20091201.125747.428.71023@mailpop05.vgs.untd.com> Message-ID: <85DE4073835C47F28015FC74C33ED11D@valtd> Hi Patrick: I have experienced no complications traveling alone by air. The airline staff have been superb and extremely helpful. They've helped me with boarding details and even shown me how to PUT ON AN OXYGEN MASK in the event that one drops during an emergency. Here in Denver, a non ticketed individual has accompanied me to the gate. When I got there, the airline in question takes over. If there is no such individual available to accompany me, I have been met at the CHECK-IN counter by airline staff and they have helped me all the way. The caveat is to ensure that these arrangements are in place at the time you purchase your ticket. Otherwise, the airline MAY NOT NECESSARILY be well prepared! All in all, my experience traveling by myself has been great, not just on airlines, but even on cruise lines! Sincerely, Olusegun Denver, Colorado From goldflash9 at sbcglobal.net Tue Dec 1 23:59:26 2009 From: goldflash9 at sbcglobal.net (Sarah Clark) Date: Tue, 1 Dec 2009 15:59:26 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel References: <20091201.125747.428.71023@mailpop05.vgs.untd.com> Message-ID: <007c01ca72e2$50c6ed70$6701a8c0@computer2> Hello Patrick, I have traveled alone a few times in recent years and have been able to be accompanied to the gate by someone who is not a ticketed passenger. The person checks in with me at the ticket counter and is given a special pass to get through security. I don't know whether this is a TSA regulation or something instituted by the airlines themselves, but I've done it with several airlines. I haven't tried to have someone meet me at the gate at the other end, so I have no experience of whether they do this. I just ask the person meeting me at my destination to meet me at the security checkpoint and I have a skycap escort me there. Sarah Clark ----- Original Message ----- From: "stiehm.law" To: Cc: Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 12:57 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > In addition to the airlines, I have recently become curious as to what if > any, accommodations for the TSA makes with respect to disabled people > going through security and being picked up by somebody at the gate at the > terminal at the other end of the flight. For example, do they permit a > blind person who is traveling alone to be accompanied through security, > down to the airline check-in counter at the gate by a non-ticketed > person. > > At the other end, is a non-ticketed person permitted through security to > go to the gate to meet a blind person flying alone? > > If TSA does not provide for such accommodations do the airlines take it > on themselves to provide this service? > > Has anybody had any experience in this regard? Is the accommodation, if > any, voluntary on the part of the TSA and/or the airlines or is it > governed by regulation? > > Patrick H. Stiehm > Stiehm Law Office > Alexandria, VA 22309 > 703-360-1089 (Voice) > 703-935-8266 (Fax) > > > > Tue, 1 Dec 2009 11:30:37 -0800 "Russell J. Thomas, Jr." > writes: >> Off the top of my head, and without any new research, the only case >> I >> remember is a case challenging the accessibility of airline websites >> with >> respect to attempting to make reservations and ordering tickets on >> line. >> >> I also think that there are regulations on the subject, especially >> dealing >> with how disabled passengers are to be treated (or perhaps on some >> occasions >> mistreated). >> >> I often thought it would be a good idea for the NFB to put together >> a short >> guide book concerning travel, including air travel, based upon >> experiences >> of NFB members, to be used as a reference guide for blind people who >> use air >> travel. Certainly things have changed since 911--some changes for >> the good, >> and others not so good. >> >> >> >> >> Respectfully, >> >> >> >> Russell J. Thomas, Jr. >> >> THOMAS & ASSOCIATES >> >> www.californiaemployersattorneys.com >> >> >> >> Orange County Office >> >> 4121 Westerly Place, Suite 101 >> >> Newport Beach, California 92660 >> >> T: (949) 752-0101 >> >> F: (949) 257-4756 >> >> M: (949) 466-7238 >> >> >> >> Beverly Hills Office >> >> 9107 Wilshire Boulevard, Suite 450 >> >> Beverly Hills, California 90210 >> >> T: (310) 461-3561 >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf Of James Weisberg >> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 10:01 AM >> To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' >> Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel >> >> Hi Folks: >> >> >> >> Anyone on the lists have experience or knowledge regarding the ADA >> and suits >> against air carriers for violations available for quick consult? >> Thanks. >> >> >> >> James W. Weisberg, Esq. >> >> Law Office of J. William Weisberg >> >> 299 South Patencio Road #3 >> >> Palm Springs, California 92262 >> >> V: 916.425.1010 >> >> F: 916.374.7667 >> >> E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com >> >> Admitted in Wisconsin >> >> Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil >> Rights >> Advocacy for Children with Diabetes >> >> This message contains information which may be confidential and >> privileged. >> Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the >> addressee), >> you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any >> information >> contained in this message. If you have received this message in >> error, >> please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from >> your >> system. >> >> This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client >> relationship >> nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William >> Weisberg >> expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information >> in >> accordance with this disclaimer. >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for >> blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rthomas%40rjtla > wfi >> rm.com >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stiehm.law%40ju > no.com >> > > ____________________________________________________________ > Hotel > Hotel pics, info and virtual tours. Click here to book a hotel online. > http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/c?cp=ewJKbyZ61QloDsW_i_oQ_wAAJ1BdROy9vkzpR6E_Fj7jZTbnAAYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAATRAAAAAA= > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/goldflash9%40sbcglobal.net From rumpole at roadrunner.com Wed Dec 2 00:12:59 2009 From: rumpole at roadrunner.com (Ross Doerr) Date: Tue, 1 Dec 2009 19:12:59 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel References: <20091201.125747.428.71023@mailpop05.vgs.untd.com> <85DE4073835C47F28015FC74C33ED11D@valtd> Message-ID: <65B1F3660CE04287A5CB73EECD6595A3@none8a46117901> Hi - I would go on to add only one or two observations here - first, it helps to call and remind the air carrier of your pre-arrangements. Sometimes they just plain misplace them or forget. Second, I have much better luck dealing with my air carrier rather than asking the T S A for any kind of help in any way. I have found that old joke of: "T S A stands for "thousands standing around"" to be, sadly, accurate at times. It is not their job to help disabled passengers and they make certain that they do their job. I travel alone by air a lot and find the airlines to be pretty good about things. Having said this, I don't trust them to be flawless. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc." To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 5:52 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > Hi Patrick: > > I have experienced no complications traveling alone by air. The airline > staff have been superb and extremely helpful. They've helped me with > boarding details and even shown me how to PUT ON AN OXYGEN MASK in the > event > that one drops during an emergency. > > Here in Denver, a non ticketed individual has accompanied me to the gate. > When I got there, the airline in question takes over. If there is no such > individual available to accompany me, I have been met at the CHECK-IN > counter by airline staff and they have helped me all the way. The caveat > is > to ensure that these arrangements are in place at the time you purchase > your > ticket. Otherwise, the airline MAY NOT NECESSARILY be well prepared! > > > All in all, my experience traveling by myself has been great, not just on > airlines, but even on cruise lines! > > Sincerely, > Olusegun > Denver, Colorado > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rumpole%40roadrunner.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.426 / Virus Database: 270.14.89/2539 - Release Date: 12/01/09 19:32:00 From pattichang at att.net Wed Dec 2 01:16:52 2009 From: pattichang at att.net (Patti Gregory-Chang) Date: Tue, 1 Dec 2009 19:16:52 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel References: <20091201.125747.428.71023@mailpop05.vgs.untd.com><85DE4073835C47F28015FC74C33ED11D@valtd> <65B1F3660CE04287A5CB73EECD6595A3@none8a46117901> Message-ID: <75A7E3060F8F4054BD7ECE1CB762B66A@D3J75Z91> I am travelling more and more alone and my bigger issue sometimes is when they are too helpful. I know O'Hare quite well and sometimes new people just won't accept that I can travel alone in United's terminal no matter how nice I am about telling them. P.S. National Federation of the Blind of Illinois is now on twitter at www.twitter.com/nfbi. We also have a facebook page. Just search for our full name. Patti Gregory-Chang President, National Federation of the Blind of Illinois pattichang at att.net www.nfbofillinois.org ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ross Doerr" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 6:12 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > Hi - > I would go on to add only one or two observations here - first, it helps > to call and remind the air carrier of your pre-arrangements. Sometimes > they just plain misplace them or forget. > Second, I have much better luck dealing with my air carrier rather than > asking the T S A for any kind of help in any way. > I have found that old joke of: "T S A stands for "thousands standing > around"" to be, sadly, accurate at times. It is not their job to help > disabled passengers and they make certain that they do their job. > I travel alone by air a lot and find the airlines to be pretty good about > things. Having said this, I don't trust them to be flawless. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc." > > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 5:52 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > > >> Hi Patrick: >> >> I have experienced no complications traveling alone by air. The airline >> staff have been superb and extremely helpful. They've helped me with >> boarding details and even shown me how to PUT ON AN OXYGEN MASK in the >> event >> that one drops during an emergency. >> >> Here in Denver, a non ticketed individual has accompanied me to the gate. >> When I got there, the airline in question takes over. If there is no >> such >> individual available to accompany me, I have been met at the CHECK-IN >> counter by airline staff and they have helped me all the way. The caveat >> is >> to ensure that these arrangements are in place at the time you purchase >> your >> ticket. Otherwise, the airline MAY NOT NECESSARILY be well prepared! >> >> >> All in all, my experience traveling by myself has been great, not just on >> airlines, but even on cruise lines! >> >> Sincerely, >> Olusegun >> Denver, Colorado >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rumpole%40roadrunner.com > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.426 / Virus Database: 270.14.89/2539 - Release Date: 12/01/09 > 19:32:00 > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pattichang%40att.net From pattichang at att.net Wed Dec 2 01:18:13 2009 From: pattichang at att.net (Patti Gregory-Chang) Date: Tue, 1 Dec 2009 19:18:13 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] state computer system case Message-ID: <66954123AD474303BCB4E25041063AC8@D3J75Z91> I know that there was a big computer access case against a state, maybe Arizona or Arkansas, in the past few years. Does anyone know the name of the case or have a copy of the settlement if any? P.S. National Federation of the Blind of Illinois is now on twitter at www.twitter.com/nfbi. We also have a facebook page. Just search for our full name. Patti Gregory-Chang President, National Federation of the Blind of Illinois pattichang at att.net www.nfbofillinois.org From benkarpilow at gmail.com Wed Dec 2 02:03:04 2009 From: benkarpilow at gmail.com (Ben Karpilow) Date: Tue, 1 Dec 2009 18:03:04 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] Bar Exam/ Air travel/ practice question Message-ID: Hello fello listers, first of all, I'm happy to report I passed the july 2009 california bar examination on my first attempt. I managed to secure an electronic version of the MBE's thanks to a pilot program run by the NCBE. I understand a lawsuit has been filed on behalf of a blind law student to make this accomidation available as a matter of law to qualified bar candidates. I understand the plaintiff is is being represented by a fellow lister.Good luck, and please keep us updated as to developments in this case. On the subject of air travel, I recall there being an extensive document posted not too long ago on this list which contained precisely the type of information that was the subject of Mr. Weisberg's original inquiry. Perhaps it would be helpful for the original sender, whose name I cannot remember, to repost the information. Finally, a practice question along the lines of one recently asked by Rod : when it comes to filling out forms, does anyone have experience with software that would enable one to digitize a form, i.e., scan it into a computer, then fill it out and print it, without altering the form's original format or look. Also, does any such software allow the user to read the form, in addition to what he/ she has written? Thank you in advance for your responces. Ben Karpilow From b75205 at gmail.com Wed Dec 2 02:15:01 2009 From: b75205 at gmail.com (James Pepper) Date: Tue, 1 Dec 2009 20:15:01 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] state computer system case In-Reply-To: <66954123AD474303BCB4E25041063AC8@D3J75Z91> References: <66954123AD474303BCB4E25041063AC8@D3J75Z91> Message-ID: It was Texas. The state of Texas changed its database software which was then inaccessible to the blind and so they lost thier access to do their jobs. I beleive they won the case. James From rthomas at rjtlawfirm.com Wed Dec 2 02:24:40 2009 From: rthomas at rjtlawfirm.com (Russell J. Thomas, Jr.) Date: Tue, 1 Dec 2009 18:24:40 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel In-Reply-To: <20091201.125747.428.71023@mailpop05.vgs.untd.com> References: <20091201.125747.428.71023@mailpop05.vgs.untd.com> Message-ID: Usually people known as TSA personnel will accompany you from the ticket counter through security to your gate. A person without a ticket, or without a pass stamped by the airline, cannot accompany you past security. The same is true on arrival; a TSA person will take you from the gat to baggage claim or outside the airport. The closest that anyone can come to you on arrival without a pass is to wait for you outside the security check in. I am sure that the service provided by TSA various from airport to airport. The service at John Wayne Airport in Orange County California is excellent. One other suggestion--if you are in a position to do so, it doesn't hurt to tip the TSA representative. If you travel often enough, you will be recognized, and the help for you will be readily available. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of stiehm.law Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 12:58 PM To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org Cc: blindlaw at nfbnet.org Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel In addition to the airlines, I have recently become curious as to what if any, accommodations for the TSA makes with respect to disabled people going through security and being picked up by somebody at the gate at the terminal at the other end of the flight. For example, do they permit a blind person who is traveling alone to be accompanied through security, down to the airline check-in counter at the gate by a non-ticketed person. At the other end, is a non-ticketed person permitted through security to go to the gate to meet a blind person flying alone? If TSA does not provide for such accommodations do the airlines take it on themselves to provide this service? Has anybody had any experience in this regard? Is the accommodation, if any, voluntary on the part of the TSA and/or the airlines or is it governed by regulation? Patrick H. Stiehm Stiehm Law Office Alexandria, VA 22309 703-360-1089 (Voice) 703-935-8266 (Fax) Tue, 1 Dec 2009 11:30:37 -0800 "Russell J. Thomas, Jr." writes: > Off the top of my head, and without any new research, the only case > I > remember is a case challenging the accessibility of airline websites > with > respect to attempting to make reservations and ordering tickets on > line. > > I also think that there are regulations on the subject, especially > dealing > with how disabled passengers are to be treated (or perhaps on some > occasions > mistreated). > > I often thought it would be a good idea for the NFB to put together > a short > guide book concerning travel, including air travel, based upon > experiences > of NFB members, to be used as a reference guide for blind people who > use air > travel. Certainly things have changed since 911--some changes for > the good, > and others not so good. > > > > > Respectfully, > > > > Russell J. Thomas, Jr. > > THOMAS & ASSOCIATES > > www.californiaemployersattorneys.com > > > > Orange County Office > > 4121 Westerly Place, Suite 101 > > Newport Beach, California 92660 > > T: (949) 752-0101 > > F: (949) 257-4756 > > M: (949) 466-7238 > > > > Beverly Hills Office > > 9107 Wilshire Boulevard, Suite 450 > > Beverly Hills, California 90210 > > T: (310) 461-3561 > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of James Weisberg > Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 10:01 AM > To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' > Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > > Hi Folks: > > > > Anyone on the lists have experience or knowledge regarding the ADA > and suits > against air carriers for violations available for quick consult? > Thanks. > > > > James W. Weisberg, Esq. > > Law Office of J. William Weisberg > > 299 South Patencio Road #3 > > Palm Springs, California 92262 > > V: 916.425.1010 > > F: 916.374.7667 > > E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com > > Admitted in Wisconsin > > Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil > Rights > Advocacy for Children with Diabetes > > This message contains information which may be confidential and > privileged. > Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the > addressee), > you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any > information > contained in this message. If you have received this message in > error, > please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from > your > system. > > This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client > relationship > nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William > Weisberg > expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information > in > accordance with this disclaimer. > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rthomas%40rjtla wfi > rm.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stiehm.law%40ju no.com > ____________________________________________________________ Hotel Hotel pics, info and virtual tours. Click here to book a hotel online. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/c?cp=ewJKbyZ61QloDsW_i_oQ_wAAJ1BdRO y9vkzpR6E_Fj7jZTbnAAYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAATRAAAAAA= _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rthomas%40rjtlawfi rm.com From rwayne1 at nyc.rr.com Wed Dec 2 02:38:33 2009 From: rwayne1 at nyc.rr.com (ray wayne) Date: Tue, 01 Dec 2009 21:38:33 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] state computer system case In-Reply-To: <66954123AD474303BCB4E25041063AC8@D3J75Z91> References: <66954123AD474303BCB4E25041063AC8@D3J75Z91> Message-ID: <20091202023833.rwayne1@nyc.rr.com> Patti: I think they were in Arkansas and Pennsylvania, but that's all I know. We have one in progress in New York, which BGL is handling. I know the plaintiff, but I must admit I've fallen out of the loop as to the status of the case. Ray ----- Original Message ----- From: "Patti Gregory-Chang" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Date: Tuesday, Dec 1, 2009 20:50:47 Subject: [bllaw] state computer system case > > > I know that there was a big computer access case against a state, maybe > Arizona or Arkansas, in the past few years. Does anyone know the name of > the case or have a copy of the settlement if any? > > P.S. National Federation of the Blind of Illinois is now on twitter at > www.twitter.com/nfbi. > We also have a facebook page. Just search for our full name. > > Patti Gregory-Chang > President, National Federation of the Blind of Illinois > pattichang at att.net > www.nfbofillinois.org > > > _______________________________________________ > bllaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for bllaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rwayne1%40nyc.rr.com From rthomas at rjtlawfirm.com Wed Dec 2 02:29:07 2009 From: rthomas at rjtlawfirm.com (Russell J. Thomas, Jr.) Date: Tue, 1 Dec 2009 18:29:07 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel In-Reply-To: <75A7E3060F8F4054BD7ECE1CB762B66A@D3J75Z91> References: <20091201.125747.428.71023@mailpop05.vgs.untd.com><85DE4073835C47F28015FC74C33ED11D@valtd><65B1F3660CE04287A5CB73EECD6595A3@none8a46117901> <75A7E3060F8F4054BD7ECE1CB762B66A@D3J75Z91> Message-ID: <83EEC38076E344AFBEDBBD9FB6BF0013@russ> Regretably, the people at airports who are supposed to help the disabled are probably trained from a form book. The notion is that one glove fits all. Don't be afraid to assert your independence (tastefully of course) when you truly don't need help. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Patti Gregory-Chang Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 5:17 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel I am travelling more and more alone and my bigger issue sometimes is when they are too helpful. I know O'Hare quite well and sometimes new people just won't accept that I can travel alone in United's terminal no matter how nice I am about telling them. P.S. National Federation of the Blind of Illinois is now on twitter at www.twitter.com/nfbi. We also have a facebook page. Just search for our full name. Patti Gregory-Chang President, National Federation of the Blind of Illinois pattichang at att.net www.nfbofillinois.org ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ross Doerr" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 6:12 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > Hi - > I would go on to add only one or two observations here - first, it helps > to call and remind the air carrier of your pre-arrangements. Sometimes > they just plain misplace them or forget. > Second, I have much better luck dealing with my air carrier rather than > asking the T S A for any kind of help in any way. > I have found that old joke of: "T S A stands for "thousands standing > around"" to be, sadly, accurate at times. It is not their job to help > disabled passengers and they make certain that they do their job. > I travel alone by air a lot and find the airlines to be pretty good about > things. Having said this, I don't trust them to be flawless. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc." > > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 5:52 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > > >> Hi Patrick: >> >> I have experienced no complications traveling alone by air. The airline >> staff have been superb and extremely helpful. They've helped me with >> boarding details and even shown me how to PUT ON AN OXYGEN MASK in the >> event >> that one drops during an emergency. >> >> Here in Denver, a non ticketed individual has accompanied me to the gate. >> When I got there, the airline in question takes over. If there is no >> such >> individual available to accompany me, I have been met at the CHECK-IN >> counter by airline staff and they have helped me all the way. The caveat >> is >> to ensure that these arrangements are in place at the time you purchase >> your >> ticket. Otherwise, the airline MAY NOT NECESSARILY be well prepared! >> >> >> All in all, my experience traveling by myself has been great, not just on >> airlines, but even on cruise lines! >> >> Sincerely, >> Olusegun >> Denver, Colorado >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rumpole%40roadrunn er.com > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.426 / Virus Database: 270.14.89/2539 - Release Date: 12/01/09 > 19:32:00 > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pattichang%40att.n et _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rthomas%40rjtlawfi rm.com From benkarpilow at gmail.com Wed Dec 2 03:08:46 2009 From: benkarpilow at gmail.com (Ben Karpilow) Date: Tue, 1 Dec 2009 19:08:46 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel References: <20091201.125747.428.71023@mailpop05.vgs.untd.com><85DE4073835C47F28015FC74C33ED11D@valtd><65B1F3660CE04287A5CB73EECD6595A3@none8a46117901> <75A7E3060F8F4054BD7ECE1CB762B66A@D3J75Z91> Message-ID: Hello fello listers, first of all, I'm happy to report I passed the july 2009 california bar examination on my first attempt. I managed to secure an electronic version of the MBE's thanks to a pilot program run by the NCBE. I understand a lawsuit has been filed on behalf of a blind law student to make this accomidation available as a matter of law to qualified bar candidates. I understand the plaintiff is is being represented by a fellow lister.Good luck, and please keep us updated as to developments in this case. On the subject of air travel, I recall there being an extensive document posted not too long ago on this list which contained precisely the type of information that was the subject of Mr. Weisberg's original inquiry. Perhaps it would be helpful for the original sender, whose name I cannot remember, to repost the information. Finally, a practice question along the lines of one recently asked by Rod : when it comes to filling out forms, does anyone have experience with software that would enable one to digitize a form, i.e., scan it into a computer, then fill it out and print it, without altering the form's original format or look. Also, does any such software allow the user to read the form, in addition to what he/ she has written? Thank you in advance for your responces. Ben Karpilow ----- Original Message ----- From: "Patti Gregory-Chang" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 5:16 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel >I am travelling more and more alone and my bigger issue sometimes is when >they are too helpful. I know O'Hare quite well and sometimes new people >just won't accept that I can travel alone in United's terminal no matter >how nice I am about telling them. > > P.S. National Federation of the Blind of Illinois is now on twitter at > www.twitter.com/nfbi. > We also have a facebook page. Just search for our full name. > > Patti Gregory-Chang > President, National Federation of the Blind of Illinois > pattichang at att.net > www.nfbofillinois.org > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ross Doerr" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 6:12 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > > >> Hi - >> I would go on to add only one or two observations here - first, it helps >> to call and remind the air carrier of your pre-arrangements. Sometimes >> they just plain misplace them or forget. >> Second, I have much better luck dealing with my air carrier rather than >> asking the T S A for any kind of help in any way. >> I have found that old joke of: "T S A stands for "thousands standing >> around"" to be, sadly, accurate at times. It is not their job to help >> disabled passengers and they make certain that they do their job. >> I travel alone by air a lot and find the airlines to be pretty good about >> things. Having said this, I don't trust them to be flawless. >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc." >> >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 5:52 PM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel >> >> >>> Hi Patrick: >>> >>> I have experienced no complications traveling alone by air. The airline >>> staff have been superb and extremely helpful. They've helped me with >>> boarding details and even shown me how to PUT ON AN OXYGEN MASK in the >>> event >>> that one drops during an emergency. >>> >>> Here in Denver, a non ticketed individual has accompanied me to the >>> gate. >>> When I got there, the airline in question takes over. If there is no >>> such >>> individual available to accompany me, I have been met at the CHECK-IN >>> counter by airline staff and they have helped me all the way. The >>> caveat is >>> to ensure that these arrangements are in place at the time you purchase >>> your >>> ticket. Otherwise, the airline MAY NOT NECESSARILY be well prepared! >>> >>> >>> All in all, my experience traveling by myself has been great, not just >>> on >>> airlines, but even on cruise lines! >>> >>> Sincerely, >>> Olusegun >>> Denver, Colorado >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rumpole%40roadrunner.com >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 8.5.426 / Virus Database: 270.14.89/2539 - Release Date: >> 12/01/09 19:32:00 >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pattichang%40att.net > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/benkarpilow%40gmail.com From timandvickie at hotmail.com Wed Dec 2 03:08:58 2009 From: timandvickie at hotmail.com (Tim Shaw) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 03:08:58 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] state computer system case In-Reply-To: References: <66954123AD474303BCB4E25041063AC8@D3J75Z91>, Message-ID: Ha, no doubt. I work for the state of Texas and I know of many peices of software they use in other agencies than mine that arent accessible. There are whole agencies that JAWS users can work in. > Date: Tue, 1 Dec 2009 20:15:01 -0600 > From: b75205 at gmail.com > To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] state computer system case > > It was Texas. The state of Texas changed its database software which was > then inaccessible to the blind and so they lost thier access to do their > jobs. I beleive they won the case. > > James > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/timandvickie%40hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live Hotmail gives you a free,exclusive gift. http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowslive/hotmail_bl1/hotmail_bl1.aspx?ocid=PID23879::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-ww:WM_IMHM_7:092009 From keith-vick at msn.com Wed Dec 2 03:54:29 2009 From: keith-vick at msn.com (Keith Vick) Date: Tue, 1 Dec 2009 20:54:29 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] ada and air travel In-Reply-To: <003101ca72c0$c08b4380$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn> References: <003101ca72c0$c08b4380$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn> Message-ID: As a follow on to Mr. Donahue's email, the below are some links related to air travel. Complaints with the DOT http://airconsumer.ost.dot.gov/ Some guidelines are posted here: http://www.ada.gov/cguide.htm#anchor63814 According to the ada.gov site people may enforce rights under the Air Carrier Access Act by filing a complaint with the U.S. Department of Transportation, or by bringing a lawsuit in Federal court. Regards, Keith Vick -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Peter Donahue Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 12:59 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ada and air travel Good afternoon, The ADA does not apply to airlines. Airlines are covered by the United States Air Carrier Access Act, (ACAA.) I don't remember the exact numbers and such but if there are charges to be filed against an airline due to alleged discrimination against the disabled they must be brought under the Air Carrier Access Act, not the Americans With Disabilities Act. Here's hoping this puts you on the correct litigation path. Peter Donahue ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Weisberg" To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 12:04 PM Subject: [blindlaw] ada and air travel Hi Folks: Anyone on the lists have experience or knowledge regarding the ADA and suits against air carriers for violations available for quick consult? Thanks James W. Weisberg, Esq. Law Office of J. William Weisberg 299 South Patencio Road #3 Palm Springs, California 92262 V: 916.425.1010 F: 916.374.7667 E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com Admitted in Wisconsin Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil Rights Advocacy for Children with Diabetes This message contains information which may be confidential and privileged. Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from your system. This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client relationship nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William Weisberg expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in accordance with this disclaimer. _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglo bal.net _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/keith-vick%40msn.c om From keith-vick at msn.com Wed Dec 2 04:01:32 2009 From: keith-vick at msn.com (Keith Vick) Date: Tue, 1 Dec 2009 21:01:32 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel In-Reply-To: References: <20091201.125747.428.71023@mailpop05.vgs.untd.com><85DE4073835C47F28015FC74C33ED11D@valtd><65B1F3660CE04287A5CB73EECD6595A3@none8a46117901> <75A7E3060F8F4054BD7ECE1CB762B66A@D3J75Z91> Message-ID: Just as a follow on to my prior email the number of complaints filed with the DOT against airlines regarding disabilities totaled 14,006. Of these, "failure to provide assistance" constituted 8,536 of the complaints. Thanks should be given to the investigators who are probably swamped. Regards, Keith Vick -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ben Karpilow Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 8:09 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel Hello fello listers, first of all, I'm happy to report I passed the july 2009 california bar examination on my first attempt. I managed to secure an electronic version of the MBE's thanks to a pilot program run by the NCBE. I understand a lawsuit has been filed on behalf of a blind law student to make this accomidation available as a matter of law to qualified bar candidates. I understand the plaintiff is is being represented by a fellow lister.Good luck, and please keep us updated as to developments in this case. On the subject of air travel, I recall there being an extensive document posted not too long ago on this list which contained precisely the type of information that was the subject of Mr. Weisberg's original inquiry. Perhaps it would be helpful for the original sender, whose name I cannot remember, to repost the information. Finally, a practice question along the lines of one recently asked by Rod : when it comes to filling out forms, does anyone have experience with software that would enable one to digitize a form, i.e., scan it into a computer, then fill it out and print it, without altering the form's original format or look. Also, does any such software allow the user to read the form, in addition to what he/ she has written? Thank you in advance for your responces. Ben Karpilow ----- Original Message ----- From: "Patti Gregory-Chang" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 5:16 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel >I am travelling more and more alone and my bigger issue sometimes is when >they are too helpful. I know O'Hare quite well and sometimes new people >just won't accept that I can travel alone in United's terminal no matter >how nice I am about telling them. > > P.S. National Federation of the Blind of Illinois is now on twitter at > www.twitter.com/nfbi. > We also have a facebook page. Just search for our full name. > > Patti Gregory-Chang > President, National Federation of the Blind of Illinois > pattichang at att.net > www.nfbofillinois.org > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ross Doerr" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 6:12 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > > >> Hi - >> I would go on to add only one or two observations here - first, it helps >> to call and remind the air carrier of your pre-arrangements. Sometimes >> they just plain misplace them or forget. >> Second, I have much better luck dealing with my air carrier rather than >> asking the T S A for any kind of help in any way. >> I have found that old joke of: "T S A stands for "thousands standing >> around"" to be, sadly, accurate at times. It is not their job to help >> disabled passengers and they make certain that they do their job. >> I travel alone by air a lot and find the airlines to be pretty good about >> things. Having said this, I don't trust them to be flawless. >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc." >> >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 5:52 PM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel >> >> >>> Hi Patrick: >>> >>> I have experienced no complications traveling alone by air. The airline >>> staff have been superb and extremely helpful. They've helped me with >>> boarding details and even shown me how to PUT ON AN OXYGEN MASK in the >>> event >>> that one drops during an emergency. >>> >>> Here in Denver, a non ticketed individual has accompanied me to the >>> gate. >>> When I got there, the airline in question takes over. If there is no >>> such >>> individual available to accompany me, I have been met at the CHECK-IN >>> counter by airline staff and they have helped me all the way. The >>> caveat is >>> to ensure that these arrangements are in place at the time you purchase >>> your >>> ticket. Otherwise, the airline MAY NOT NECESSARILY be well prepared! >>> >>> >>> All in all, my experience traveling by myself has been great, not just >>> on >>> airlines, but even on cruise lines! >>> >>> Sincerely, >>> Olusegun >>> Denver, Colorado >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rumpole%40roadrunn er.com >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- >> >> >> >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 8.5.426 / Virus Database: 270.14.89/2539 - Release Date: >> 12/01/09 19:32:00 >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pattichang%40att.n et > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/benkarpilow%40gmai l.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/keith-vick%40msn.c om From timandvickie at hotmail.com Wed Dec 2 04:28:32 2009 From: timandvickie at hotmail.com (Tim Shaw) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 04:28:32 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] state computer system case In-Reply-To: <20091202023833.rwayne1@nyc.rr.com> References: <66954123AD474303BCB4E25041063AC8@D3J75Z91>, <20091202023833.rwayne1@nyc.rr.com> Message-ID: The disability determination services agency in Texas as a system they use that isnt accessible so blind people cant work for them, but they blame it on the IRS whos program they are using. > From: rwayne1 at nyc.rr.com > To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org > Date: Tue, 1 Dec 2009 21:38:33 -0500 > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] state computer system case > > Patti: > I think they were in Arkansas and Pennsylvania, but that's all I know. We have one in progress in New York, which BGL is handling. I know the plaintiff, but I must admit I've fallen out of the loop as to the status of the case. > Ray > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Patti Gregory-Chang" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Date: Tuesday, Dec 1, 2009 20:50:47 > Subject: [bllaw] state computer system case > > > > > > > I know that there was a big computer access case against a state, maybe > > Arizona or Arkansas, in the past few years. Does anyone know the name of > > the case or have a copy of the settlement if any? > > > > P.S. National Federation of the Blind of Illinois is now on twitter at > > www.twitter.com/nfbi. > > We also have a facebook page. Just search for our full name. > > > > Patti Gregory-Chang > > President, National Federation of the Blind of Illinois > > pattichang at att.net > > www.nfbofillinois.org > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > bllaw mailing list > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for bllaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rwayne1%40nyc.rr.com > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/timandvickie%40hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live Hotmail is faster and more secure than ever. http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowslive/hotmail_bl1/hotmail_bl1.aspx?ocid=PID23879::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-ww:WM_IMHM_1:092009 From billreif at ameritech.net Wed Dec 2 06:37:21 2009 From: billreif at ameritech.net (Bill Reif) Date: Wed, 02 Dec 2009 00:37:21 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] state computer system case In-Reply-To: <66954123AD474303BCB4E25041063AC8@D3J75Z91> References: <66954123AD474303BCB4E25041063AC8@D3J75Z91> Message-ID: <4B160B21.60805@ameritech.net> Hi Patti and list, I believe the caption of the case is: Jim W. Thatcher, National Federation of the Blind (NFB) v The State of Arkansas. Our final Press Release is below. PA sued the same software company. Bill Reif National Federation of the Blind of Arkansas Agrees to Settlement of Lawsuit Over Accessibility of Software to Blind State Employees Little Rock, Arkansas (August 11, 2008): The National Federation of the Blind of Arkansas and two blind state employees have agreed to a settlement among themselves, the state of Arkansas, and software provider SAP Public Services, Inc. The agreement resolves a lawsuit brought by blind state employees in 2001 because the blind could not access the Arkansas Administrative Statewide Information System (AASIS). The state, in turn, brought suit against SAP, which had substantially designed AASIS. Under the agreement, SAP will upgrade AASIS to include accessibility features that will allow blind state employees using text-to-speech screen access technology to perform employment functions using AASIS. The upgrade is to be in place by August 1, 2009. Chris McKenzie, president of the National Federation of the Blind of Arkansas, said: “We are pleased that the state of Arkansas and SAP are taking steps to ensure that blind state employees will be able to perform their jobs efficiently and effectively using the same tools as all other state employees. We will continue to monitor the situation until we are certain that all of the necessary functions of AASIS are fully accessible to blind employees of this state.” Dustin McDaniel, attorney general of the state of Arkansas, said: “We are pleased with the settlement that was reached in this matter and are glad to put this lengthy litigation behind us. It was a good resolution for the State as well as blind state employees who will now have equal access to the State's computer system." Patti Gregory-Chang wrote: > I know that there was a big computer access case against a state, > maybe Arizona or Arkansas, in the past few years. Does anyone know the > name of the case or have a copy of the settlement if any? > > P.S. National Federation of the Blind of Illinois is now on twitter at > www.twitter.com/nfbi. > We also have a facebook page. Just search for our full name. > > Patti Gregory-Chang > President, National Federation of the Blind of Illinois > pattichang at att.net > www.nfbofillinois.org > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/billreif%40ameritech.net > > From dandrews at visi.com Wed Dec 2 07:40:26 2009 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Wed, 02 Dec 2009 01:40:26 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] state computer system case In-Reply-To: <66954123AD474303BCB4E25041063AC8@D3J75Z91> References: <66954123AD474303BCB4E25041063AC8@D3J75Z91> Message-ID: There was a suit in Arkansas -- also one in Texas. Dave At 07:18 PM 12/1/2009, you wrote: >I know that there was a big computer access case against a state, >maybe Arizona or Arkansas, in the past few years. Does anyone know >the name of the case or have a copy of the settlement if any? > >P.S. National Federation of the Blind of Illinois is now on twitter >at www.twitter.com/nfbi. >We also have a facebook page. Just search for our full name. > >Patti Gregory-Chang >President, National Federation of the Blind of Illinois >pattichang at att.net >www.nfbofillinois.org > >_______________________________________________ >blindlaw mailing list >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >for blindlaw: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40visi.com > > >__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus >signature database 4653 (20091201) __________ > >The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > >http://www.eset.com > > From dandrews at visi.com Wed Dec 2 07:43:40 2009 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Wed, 02 Dec 2009 01:43:40 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] state computer system case In-Reply-To: References: <66954123AD474303BCB4E25041063AC8@D3J75Z91> <20091202023833.rwayne1@nyc.rr.com> Message-ID: I believe the Texas suit was over the system the state uses where employees have to enter time worked, and other HR matters. I believe it was a Peoplesoft application -- they are now owned by Oracle. Dave At 10:28 PM 12/1/2009, you wrote: >The disability determination services agency in Texas as a system >they use that isnt accessible so blind people cant work for them, >but they blame it on the IRS whos program they are using. > > > From: rwayne1 at nyc.rr.com > > To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > Date: Tue, 1 Dec 2009 21:38:33 -0500 > > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] state computer system case > > > > Patti: > > I think they were in Arkansas and Pennsylvania, but that's all I > know. We have one in progress in New York, which BGL is handling. I > know the plaintiff, but I must admit I've fallen out of the loop as > to the status of the case. > > Ray > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Patti Gregory-Chang" > > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > > Date: Tuesday, Dec 1, 2009 20:50:47 > > Subject: [bllaw] state computer system case > > > > > > > > > > > I know that there was a big computer access case against a state, maybe > > > Arizona or Arkansas, in the past few years. Does anyone know the name of > > > the case or have a copy of the settlement if any? From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Wed Dec 2 08:05:31 2009 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 00:05:31 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel In-Reply-To: <20091201.125747.428.71023@mailpop05.vgs.untd.com> References: <20091201.125747.428.71023@mailpop05.vgs.untd.com> Message-ID: <2997A66A10B2433784B58824BE3EF4BA@spike> I travel frequently alone and the air lines and/or HSA provide needed assistence upon my request. including through security check points and picking up baggage and assistence with procuring ground transportation or to a waiting party. I have found HSA and airport staff to be very cooperative. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "stiehm.law" To: Cc: Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 12:57 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > In addition to the airlines, I have recently become curious as to what if > any, accommodations for the TSA makes with respect to disabled people > going through security and being picked up by somebody at the gate at the > terminal at the other end of the flight. For example, do they permit a > blind person who is traveling alone to be accompanied through security, > down to the airline check-in counter at the gate by a non-ticketed > person. > > At the other end, is a non-ticketed person permitted through security to > go to the gate to meet a blind person flying alone? > > If TSA does not provide for such accommodations do the airlines take it > on themselves to provide this service? > > Has anybody had any experience in this regard? Is the accommodation, if > any, voluntary on the part of the TSA and/or the airlines or is it > governed by regulation? > > Patrick H. Stiehm > Stiehm Law Office > Alexandria, VA 22309 > 703-360-1089 (Voice) > 703-935-8266 (Fax) > > > > Tue, 1 Dec 2009 11:30:37 -0800 "Russell J. Thomas, Jr." > writes: >> Off the top of my head, and without any new research, the only case >> I >> remember is a case challenging the accessibility of airline websites >> with >> respect to attempting to make reservations and ordering tickets on >> line. >> >> I also think that there are regulations on the subject, especially >> dealing >> with how disabled passengers are to be treated (or perhaps on some >> occasions >> mistreated). >> >> I often thought it would be a good idea for the NFB to put together >> a short >> guide book concerning travel, including air travel, based upon >> experiences >> of NFB members, to be used as a reference guide for blind people who >> use air >> travel. Certainly things have changed since 911--some changes for >> the good, >> and others not so good. >> >> >> >> >> Respectfully, >> >> >> >> Russell J. Thomas, Jr. >> >> THOMAS & ASSOCIATES >> >> www.californiaemployersattorneys.com >> >> >> >> Orange County Office >> >> 4121 Westerly Place, Suite 101 >> >> Newport Beach, California 92660 >> >> T: (949) 752-0101 >> >> F: (949) 257-4756 >> >> M: (949) 466-7238 >> >> >> >> Beverly Hills Office >> >> 9107 Wilshire Boulevard, Suite 450 >> >> Beverly Hills, California 90210 >> >> T: (310) 461-3561 >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf Of James Weisberg >> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 10:01 AM >> To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' >> Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel >> >> Hi Folks: >> >> >> >> Anyone on the lists have experience or knowledge regarding the ADA >> and suits >> against air carriers for violations available for quick consult? >> Thanks. >> >> >> >> James W. Weisberg, Esq. >> >> Law Office of J. William Weisberg >> >> 299 South Patencio Road #3 >> >> Palm Springs, California 92262 >> >> V: 916.425.1010 >> >> F: 916.374.7667 >> >> E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com >> >> Admitted in Wisconsin >> >> Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil >> Rights >> Advocacy for Children with Diabetes >> >> This message contains information which may be confidential and >> privileged. >> Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the >> addressee), >> you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any >> information >> contained in this message. If you have received this message in >> error, >> please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from >> your >> system. >> >> This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client >> relationship >> nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William >> Weisberg >> expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information >> in >> accordance with this disclaimer. >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for >> blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rthomas%40rjtla > wfi >> rm.com >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stiehm.law%40ju > no.com >> > > ____________________________________________________________ > Hotel > Hotel pics, info and virtual tours. Click here to book a hotel online. > http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/c?cp=ewJKbyZ61QloDsW_i_oQ_wAAJ1BdROy9vkzpR6E_Fj7jZTbnAAYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAATRAAAAAA= > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net From info at michaelhingson.com Wed Dec 2 08:30:47 2009 From: info at michaelhingson.com (Michael Hingson) Date: Wed, 02 Dec 2009 02:30:47 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] KnfbReader Mobile END OF YEAR CELEBRATION Message-ID: KnfbReader Mobile END OF YEAR CELEBRATION Greetings all, We are finishing our first year of providing the KnfbReader Mobile to the blind of the Nation. KNFB Technologies has told me and our NFB board that at present we are #1 in sales in the world. This is, I believe, due to our technical support of the Reader and our ability to provide the Readers at good prices and most of all to you who recognize the value of the Reader. To celebrate our first year's accomplishments we are offering some end of year special pricing to anyone who wishes to purchase a KnfbReader by the end of 2009. If you purchase a KnfbReader from The Michael Hingson Group or any of its dealers on or before December 31, 2009 you can take advantage of these special prices. 1. Purchase a KnfbReader Mobile including a Nokia N82 and either Talks or MobileSpeak at $100 off our normal price and get the package for $1,495.00 plus shipping. We have plenty of Nokia N82s and can get more. Even though Nokia has discontinued this product we have access to them for now. Because of your faith and the buying power you have given us this year we have unique access to this hardware in the US for the best price anywhere. If you would rather have the new Nokia N86 you can buy the KnfbReader Mobile using this platform, again including either Talks or MobileSpeak, but now get $150 off our regular price and get the entire package for $1,620.00 plus shipping. As always you get full support and one year of software upgrades. Each unit comes fully integrated and ready for you to use. We offer some accessories including extended batteries for the Nokia N82, Bluetooth headsets, and WayFinder Access GPS. Feel free to ask about these items when calling or emailing with questions or to place an order. Remember, to qualify for the special end of year prices you must place your order by the end of December 31, 2009. If you want your KnfbReader Mobile in time for Christmas please order by December 15. We will work with state agencies and other organizations to accommodate their purchasing procedures so they may also take advantage of this special pricing. Thank you all for the support you have given us this year. I and the entire team appreciate all your questions and assistance in spreading the word about the NFB KnfbReader Mobile sales project. We will continue to provide all the support we can as we move into next year. As new phones and new Reader features become available you can be assured that we will assist you in getting your questions answered as well as in insuring that you have the best products available. Please visit our web site, http://knfbreader.michaelhingson.com, to keep up with the latest information about the Reader. Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to all, Mike Hingson The Michael Hingson Group "Speaking with Vision" Michael Hingson, President (415) 827-4084 info at michaelhingson.com www.michaelhingson.com for info on the new KNFB Reader Mobile, visit: http://knfbreader.michaelhingson.com From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Wed Dec 2 08:41:02 2009 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 00:41:02 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel In-Reply-To: <85DE4073835C47F28015FC74C33ED11D@valtd> References: <20091201.125747.428.71023@mailpop05.vgs.untd.com> <85DE4073835C47F28015FC74C33ED11D@valtd> Message-ID: <310AF3C9782240EE9AA780A4AD12CEAB@spike> That's good to know about cruise lines as I can remember the days where certain cruise lines discriminated against blind passengers traveling alone. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc." To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 2:52 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > Hi Patrick: > > I have experienced no complications traveling alone by air. The airline > staff have been superb and extremely helpful. They've helped me with > boarding details and even shown me how to PUT ON AN OXYGEN MASK in the > event that one drops during an emergency. > > Here in Denver, a non ticketed individual has accompanied me to the gate. > When I got there, the airline in question takes over. If there is no such > individual available to accompany me, I have been met at the CHECK-IN > counter by airline staff and they have helped me all the way. The caveat > is to ensure that these arrangements are in place at the time you purchase > your ticket. Otherwise, the airline MAY NOT NECESSARILY be well prepared! > > > All in all, my experience traveling by myself has been great, not just on > airlines, but even on cruise lines! > > Sincerely, > Olusegun > Denver, Colorado > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Wed Dec 2 09:55:26 2009 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 01:55:26 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] Bar Exam/ Air travel/ practice question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <755BC5BBB6924782846D2E4A3F5ADF96@spike> congratulations on passing the bar! I'm not what actual forms you're looking for but you may want to check out Martin Dean's publisher of California essential forms at www.essentialpublishers.com. I have met with the distributor at various trade shows through the California Association of Legal Document Assistants and I am told that the forms should work with screen reading software. He also told me of a client that uses them with dictation software as well. This is much less expensive than Legal Solutions and as that software is going away as we know it this is much more user friendly. Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal 1237 P Street Fresno ca 93721 559-266-9237 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ben Karpilow" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 6:03 PM Subject: [blindlaw] Bar Exam/ Air travel/ practice question > Hello fello listers, > > first of all, I'm happy to report I passed the july 2009 california bar > examination on my first attempt. I managed to secure an electronic version > of the MBE's thanks to a pilot program run by the NCBE. I understand a > lawsuit has been filed on behalf of a blind law student to make this > accomidation available as a matter of law to qualified bar candidates. I > understand the plaintiff is is being represented by a fellow lister.Good > luck, and please keep us updated as to developments in this case. > > On the subject of air travel, I recall there being an extensive document > posted not too long ago on this list which contained precisely the type of > information that was the subject of Mr. Weisberg's original inquiry. > Perhaps it would be helpful for the original sender, whose name I cannot > remember, to repost the information. > > Finally, a practice question along the lines of one recently asked by Rod > : when it comes to filling out forms, does anyone have experience with > software that would enable one to digitize a form, i.e., scan it into a > computer, then fill it out and print it, without altering the form's > original format or look. Also, does any such software allow the user to > read the form, in addition to what he/ she has written? Thank you in > advance for your responces. > > Ben Karpilow > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net From pattichang at att.net Wed Dec 2 12:45:54 2009 From: pattichang at att.net (Patti Gregory-Chang) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 06:45:54 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] state computer system case References: <66954123AD474303BCB4E25041063AC8@D3J75Z91> <4B160B21.60805@ameritech.net> Message-ID: Thanks. P.S. National Federation of the Blind of Illinois is now on twitter at www.twitter.com/nfbi. We also have a facebook page. Just search for our full name. Patti Gregory-Chang President, National Federation of the Blind of Illinois pattichang at att.net www.nfbofillinois.org ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Reif" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 12:37 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] state computer system case Hi Patti and list, I believe the caption of the case is: Jim W. Thatcher, National Federation of the Blind (NFB) v The State of Arkansas. Our final Press Release is below. PA sued the same software company. Bill Reif National Federation of the Blind of Arkansas Agrees to Settlement of Lawsuit Over Accessibility of Software to Blind State Employees Little Rock, Arkansas (August 11, 2008): The National Federation of the Blind of Arkansas and two blind state employees have agreed to a settlement among themselves, the state of Arkansas, and software provider SAP Public Services, Inc. The agreement resolves a lawsuit brought by blind state employees in 2001 because the blind could not access the Arkansas Administrative Statewide Information System (AASIS). The state, in turn, brought suit against SAP, which had substantially designed AASIS. Under the agreement, SAP will upgrade AASIS to include accessibility features that will allow blind state employees using text-to-speech screen access technology to perform employment functions using AASIS. The upgrade is to be in place by August 1, 2009. Chris McKenzie, president of the National Federation of the Blind of Arkansas, said: “We are pleased that the state of Arkansas and SAP are taking steps to ensure that blind state employees will be able to perform their jobs efficiently and effectively using the same tools as all other state employees. We will continue to monitor the situation until we are certain that all of the necessary functions of AASIS are fully accessible to blind employees of this state.” Dustin McDaniel, attorney general of the state of Arkansas, said: “We are pleased with the settlement that was reached in this matter and are glad to put this lengthy litigation behind us. It was a good resolution for the State as well as blind state employees who will now have equal access to the State's computer system." Patti Gregory-Chang wrote: > I know that there was a big computer access case against a state, maybe > Arizona or Arkansas, in the past few years. Does anyone know the name of > the case or have a copy of the settlement if any? > > P.S. National Federation of the Blind of Illinois is now on twitter at > www.twitter.com/nfbi. > We also have a facebook page. Just search for our full name. > > Patti Gregory-Chang > President, National Federation of the Blind of Illinois > pattichang at att.net > www.nfbofillinois.org > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/billreif%40ameritech.net > _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pattichang%40att.net From attorney at alcidonislaw.com Wed Dec 2 13:21:55 2009 From: attorney at alcidonislaw.com (Rod Alcidonis) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 08:21:55 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Congrads Ben on passing the bar In-Reply-To: References: <20091201.125747.428.71023@mailpop05.vgs.untd.com><85DE4073835C47F28015FC74C33ED11D@valtd><65B1F3660CE04287A5CB73EECD6595A3@none8a46117901><75A7E3060F8F4054BD7ECE1CB762B66A@D3J75Z91> Message-ID: Ben: Congrads on passing the bar. Rod Alcidonis Attorney and Counselor at Law Philadelphia, PA Licensed in PA -- NJ pending C. 718-704-4651 Attorney at alcidonislaw.com "A lawyer is either a social engineer or a parasite." - Charles Hamilton Houston -------------------------------------------------- From: "Ben Karpilow" Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 10:08 PM To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > Hello fello listers, > > first of all, I'm happy to report I passed the july 2009 california bar > examination on my first attempt. I managed to secure an electronic version > of the MBE's thanks to a pilot program run by the NCBE. I understand a > lawsuit has been filed on behalf of a blind law student to make this > accomidation available as a matter of law to qualified bar candidates. I > understand the plaintiff is is being represented by a fellow lister.Good > luck, and please keep us updated as to developments in this case. > > On the subject of air travel, I recall there being an extensive document > posted not too long ago on this list which contained precisely the type of > information that was the subject of Mr. Weisberg's original inquiry. > Perhaps it would be helpful for the original sender, whose name I cannot > remember, to repost the information. > > Finally, a practice question along the lines of one recently asked by Rod > : when it comes to filling out forms, does anyone have experience with > software that would enable one to digitize a form, i.e., scan it into a > computer, then fill it out and print it, without altering the form's > original format or look. Also, does any such software allow the user to > read the form, in addition to what he/ she has written? Thank you in > advance for your responces. > > Ben Karpilow > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Patti Gregory-Chang" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 5:16 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > > >>I am travelling more and more alone and my bigger issue sometimes is when >>they are too helpful. I know O'Hare quite well and sometimes new people >>just won't accept that I can travel alone in United's terminal no matter >>how nice I am about telling them. >> >> P.S. National Federation of the Blind of Illinois is now on twitter at >> www.twitter.com/nfbi. >> We also have a facebook page. Just search for our full name. >> >> Patti Gregory-Chang >> President, National Federation of the Blind of Illinois >> pattichang at att.net >> www.nfbofillinois.org >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Ross Doerr" >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 6:12 PM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel >> >> >>> Hi - >>> I would go on to add only one or two observations here - first, it >>> helps to call and remind the air carrier of your pre-arrangements. >>> Sometimes they just plain misplace them or forget. >>> Second, I have much better luck dealing with my air carrier rather than >>> asking the T S A for any kind of help in any way. >>> I have found that old joke of: "T S A stands for "thousands standing >>> around"" to be, sadly, accurate at times. It is not their job to help >>> disabled passengers and they make certain that they do their job. >>> I travel alone by air a lot and find the airlines to be pretty good >>> about things. Having said this, I don't trust them to be flawless. >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc." >>> >>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 5:52 PM >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel >>> >>> >>>> Hi Patrick: >>>> >>>> I have experienced no complications traveling alone by air. The >>>> airline >>>> staff have been superb and extremely helpful. They've helped me with >>>> boarding details and even shown me how to PUT ON AN OXYGEN MASK in the >>>> event >>>> that one drops during an emergency. >>>> >>>> Here in Denver, a non ticketed individual has accompanied me to the >>>> gate. >>>> When I got there, the airline in question takes over. If there is no >>>> such >>>> individual available to accompany me, I have been met at the CHECK-IN >>>> counter by airline staff and they have helped me all the way. The >>>> caveat is >>>> to ensure that these arrangements are in place at the time you purchase >>>> your >>>> ticket. Otherwise, the airline MAY NOT NECESSARILY be well prepared! >>>> >>>> >>>> All in all, my experience traveling by myself has been great, not just >>>> on >>>> airlines, but even on cruise lines! >>>> >>>> Sincerely, >>>> Olusegun >>>> Denver, Colorado >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rumpole%40roadrunner.com >>> >>> >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> >>> >>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>> Version: 8.5.426 / Virus Database: 270.14.89/2539 - Release Date: >>> 12/01/09 19:32:00 >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pattichang%40att.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/benkarpilow%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/attorney%40alcidonislaw.com From Yasmin.Reyazuddin at montgomerycountymd.gov Wed Dec 2 13:22:57 2009 From: Yasmin.Reyazuddin at montgomerycountymd.gov (Reyazuddin, Yasmin) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 08:22:57 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel In-Reply-To: <20091201.125747.428.71023@mailpop05.vgs.untd.com> Message-ID: Hi Patrick I just returned back from India, and I can give you the international view on this matter. The airlines are supposed to know about your travel plans. I got assistance getting to the security points and beyond. At the same time in London I was told something interesting. When we purchase the ticket we can select our meals and the seat in advance. We need to inform about needing assistance. Under the disability we could say (wheelchair R,) meaning we just need assistance with getting from point to point. If we choose (wheelchair S) it will mean that we need a wheelchair and we will need assistance if aircraft is reached by climbing steps. TSA is not very helpful in working with blind passengers. One security guard snatched my passport and ticket out of my hand without asking or informing me about it. Of course, I screamed and then she asked by looks from a fellow passenger. I gave her some harsh words and she left. Yasmin Reyazuddin Information & Referral unit Department of Health & human services 401 Hungerford Drive (1st floor) Rockville MD 20850 Phone 240-777-1245 (info line) 240-777-1556 (personal line) Fax: 240-777-4636 TTY: 240-777-1295 Office hours 8:30 am to 5:00 pm Languages English, Hindi, Urdu This message may contain protected health information or other information that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by return mail and destroy any copies of this material. Thank you. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of stiehm.law Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 3:58 PM To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org Cc: blindlaw at nfbnet.org Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel In addition to the airlines, I have recently become curious as to what if any, accommodations for the TSA makes with respect to disabled people going through security and being picked up by somebody at the gate at the terminal at the other end of the flight. For example, do they permit a blind person who is traveling alone to be accompanied through security, down to the airline check-in counter at the gate by a non-ticketed person. At the other end, is a non-ticketed person permitted through security to go to the gate to meet a blind person flying alone? If TSA does not provide for such accommodations do the airlines take it on themselves to provide this service? Has anybody had any experience in this regard? Is the accommodation, if any, voluntary on the part of the TSA and/or the airlines or is it governed by regulation? Patrick H. Stiehm Stiehm Law Office Alexandria, VA 22309 703-360-1089 (Voice) 703-935-8266 (Fax) Tue, 1 Dec 2009 11:30:37 -0800 "Russell J. Thomas, Jr." writes: > Off the top of my head, and without any new research, the only case > I > remember is a case challenging the accessibility of airline websites > with > respect to attempting to make reservations and ordering tickets on > line. > > I also think that there are regulations on the subject, especially > dealing > with how disabled passengers are to be treated (or perhaps on some > occasions > mistreated). > > I often thought it would be a good idea for the NFB to put together > a short > guide book concerning travel, including air travel, based upon > experiences > of NFB members, to be used as a reference guide for blind people who > use air > travel. Certainly things have changed since 911--some changes for > the good, > and others not so good. > > > > > Respectfully, > > > > Russell J. Thomas, Jr. > > THOMAS & ASSOCIATES > > www.californiaemployersattorneys.com > > > > Orange County Office > > 4121 Westerly Place, Suite 101 > > Newport Beach, California 92660 > > T: (949) 752-0101 > > F: (949) 257-4756 > > M: (949) 466-7238 > > > > Beverly Hills Office > > 9107 Wilshire Boulevard, Suite 450 > > Beverly Hills, California 90210 > > T: (310) 461-3561 > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of James Weisberg > Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 10:01 AM > To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' > Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > > Hi Folks: > > > > Anyone on the lists have experience or knowledge regarding the ADA > and suits > against air carriers for violations available for quick consult? > Thanks. > > > > James W. Weisberg, Esq. > > Law Office of J. William Weisberg > > 299 South Patencio Road #3 > > Palm Springs, California 92262 > > V: 916.425.1010 > > F: 916.374.7667 > > E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com > > Admitted in Wisconsin > > Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil > Rights > Advocacy for Children with Diabetes > > This message contains information which may be confidential and > privileged. > Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the > addressee), > you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any > information > contained in this message. If you have received this message in > error, > please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from > your > system. > > This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client > relationship > nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William > Weisberg > expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information > in > accordance with this disclaimer. > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rthomas%40rjtl a wfi > rm.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stiehm.law%40j u no.com > ____________________________________________________________ Hotel Hotel pics, info and virtual tours. Click here to book a hotel online. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/c?cp=ewJKbyZ61QloDsW_i_oQ_wAAJ1 BdROy9vkzpR6E_Fj7jZTbnAAYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAATRAAAAA A= _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/yasmin.reyazud din%40montgomerycountymd.gov From stiehm.law at juno.com Wed Dec 2 14:27:07 2009 From: stiehm.law at juno.com (stiehm.law) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 09:27:07 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel Message-ID: <20091202.062746.16959.73094@mailpop08.vgs.untd.com> Thank you to everyone who provided in put on the assistance that is available during air travel and at the airport. It was really most informative. Patrick H. Stiehm Stiehm Law Office Alexandria, VA 22309 703-360-1089 (Voice) 703-935-8266 (Fax) ____________________________________________________________ Love Spell Click here to light up your life with a love spell! http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/c?cp=CI1jo0JpDt36YkyFk2AXDQAAJ1BdROy9vkzpR6E_Fj7jZTbnAAYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARwAAAAA= From Tim.Ford at cdph.ca.gov Wed Dec 2 16:00:01 2009 From: Tim.Ford at cdph.ca.gov (Ford, Tim (CDPH-OLS)) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 08:00:01 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] Confidential Story, state computer system In-Reply-To: References: <66954123AD474303BCB4E25041063AC8@D3J75Z91> Message-ID: <839F18076C66C345BD1C0A4ACA67A1F60413E549@dhsexcmsg12.intra.dhs.ca.gov> Hi All, Before I go any further, I would prefer that the following be kept among ourselves and not forwarded to other lists; I could perhaps get a bit of flack for telling what is essentially an inside story. So if you cannot honor that, please stop here and delete this message. I have a little story from here in California state government that bears on this issue of inaccessible state government computer systems. Back some years ago, we started having to use a new travel claim system. That same process is also for reimbursement of small expenditures that an employee paid for out of their own money but was for official purposes. Anyway, the system was not accessible. Our state rehabilitation agency solved the problem by sticking with its own accessible system, but that left behind blind employees like myself who worked for other agencies. So I started checking in to it, and after a number of non-returned phone calls, I finally got the name and contact information for the head guy. He was very candid, and explained the significant efforts he had gone to trying to figure out a solution to the access problem. After our phone call, he even went so far as to contract with a blind computer tech expert I referred him to, and that expert verified that the access problem could not be solved due to fundamental limitations inherent in the old system. I put the matter aside, and several months later, the guy called me out of the blue to tell me that they had just received permission to fund a purchase of the newer generation of the travel claim software, and that fixing the accessibility problem was the specific goal of the purchase. When I asked him how much it cost, the price was somewhere around $700,000. I choked a bit, and told him I felt a bit bad that the fix was so expensive. He chuckled a bit, then told me that he had been trying for several years to get the new software system, for all sorts of non-accessible reasons, and had always been refused. However, when after my phone call he raised the access issue, the purchase was approved. So he thanked me very much for giving him the idea of the approach that actually turned the tide. Now to put this all in perspective. This new computer system was for all of state government, several hundred thousand users in all, and the upgrade was sorely needed since the base platform was over a decade old, even prior to Windows XP, and the cost per user was something like three dollars. So this turned out to be a win-win situation, and in this case, I found the irony of the situation to make for a good yarn, and that as they say, is the rest of the story. Sincerely, Tim Ford From timandvickie at hotmail.com Wed Dec 2 16:40:55 2009 From: timandvickie at hotmail.com (Tim Shaw) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 16:40:55 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] state computer system case In-Reply-To: References: <66954123AD474303BCB4E25041063AC8@D3J75Z91>, <20091202023833.rwayne1@nyc.rr.com>, , Message-ID: ah yes that particular system is a pain even for a sighted person > Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 01:43:40 -0600 > To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org > From: dandrews at visi.com > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] state computer system case > > I believe the Texas suit was over the system the state uses where > employees have to enter time worked, and other HR matters. I believe > it was a Peoplesoft application -- they are now owned by Oracle. > > Dave > > At 10:28 PM 12/1/2009, you wrote: > > >The disability determination services agency in Texas as a system > >they use that isnt accessible so blind people cant work for them, > >but they blame it on the IRS whos program they are using. > > > > > From: rwayne1 at nyc.rr.com > > > To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > > Date: Tue, 1 Dec 2009 21:38:33 -0500 > > > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] state computer system case > > > > > > Patti: > > > I think they were in Arkansas and Pennsylvania, but that's all I > > know. We have one in progress in New York, which BGL is handling. I > > know the plaintiff, but I must admit I've fallen out of the loop as > > to the status of the case. > > > Ray > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Patti Gregory-Chang" > > > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > > > Date: Tuesday, Dec 1, 2009 20:50:47 > > > Subject: [bllaw] state computer system case > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I know that there was a big computer access case against a state, maybe > > > > Arizona or Arkansas, in the past few years. Does anyone know the name of > > > > the case or have a copy of the settlement if any? > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/timandvickie%40hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ Chat with Messenger straight from your Hotmail inbox. http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowslive/hotmail_bl1/hotmail_bl1.aspx?ocid=PID23879::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-ww:WM_IMHM_4:092009 From jimi-law at dc.rr.com Wed Dec 2 16:44:50 2009 From: jimi-law at dc.rr.com (James Weisberg) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 08:44:50 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] follow up on ADA and Air Travel Message-ID: As the original poster of this thread I wanted to point out the reason for my inquiry was not related to accommodations but rather being publicly humiliated by air carrier staff (stew) which of course is a common carrier and that's a big "no no." Since the humiliation was based upon the presence of a guide dog the ADA first came to mind. Finally, Ben you rock dude!! James W. Weisberg, Esq. Law Office of J. William Weisberg 299 South Patencio Road #3 Palm Springs, California 92262 V: 916.425.1010 F: 916.374.7667 E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com Admitted in Wisconsin Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil Rights Advocacy for Children with Diabetes This message contains information which may be confidential and privileged. Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from your system. This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client relationship nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William Weisberg expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in accordance with this disclaimer. From jimi-law at dc.rr.com Wed Dec 2 16:45:45 2009 From: jimi-law at dc.rr.com (James Weisberg) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 08:45:45 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] further Message-ID: OH, and I'm going the federal court route . . . naturally. James W. Weisberg, Esq. Law Office of J. William Weisberg 299 South Patencio Road #3 Palm Springs, California 92262 V: 916.425.1010 F: 916.374.7667 E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com Admitted in Wisconsin Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil Rights Advocacy for Children with Diabetes This message contains information which may be confidential and privileged. Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from your system. This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client relationship nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William Weisberg expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in accordance with this disclaimer. From jimi-law at dc.rr.com Wed Dec 2 16:52:39 2009 From: jimi-law at dc.rr.com (James Weisberg) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 08:52:39 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] Confidential Story, state computer system In-Reply-To: <839F18076C66C345BD1C0A4ACA67A1F60413E549@dhsexcmsg12.intra.dhs.ca.gov> References: <66954123AD474303BCB4E25041063AC8@D3J75Z91> <839F18076C66C345BD1C0A4ACA67A1F60413E549@dhsexcmsg12.intra.dhs.ca.gov> Message-ID: <7644025F768E4B439212EA4897383630@screnci.local> Hey Tim: Can you get me a new laptop? :-) James W. Weisberg, Esq. Law Office of J. William Weisberg 299 South Patencio Road #3 Palm Springs, California 92262 V: 916.425.1010 F: 916.374.7667 E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com Admitted in Wisconsin Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil Rights Advocacy for Children with Diabetes This message contains information which may be confidential and privileged. Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from your system. This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client relationship nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William Weisberg expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in accordance with this disclaimer. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ford, Tim (CDPH-OLS) Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 8:00 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: [blindlaw] Confidential Story, state computer system Hi All, Before I go any further, I would prefer that the following be kept among ourselves and not forwarded to other lists; I could perhaps get a bit of flack for telling what is essentially an inside story. So if you cannot honor that, please stop here and delete this message. I have a little story from here in California state government that bears on this issue of inaccessible state government computer systems. Back some years ago, we started having to use a new travel claim system. That same process is also for reimbursement of small expenditures that an employee paid for out of their own money but was for official purposes. Anyway, the system was not accessible. Our state rehabilitation agency solved the problem by sticking with its own accessible system, but that left behind blind employees like myself who worked for other agencies. So I started checking in to it, and after a number of non-returned phone calls, I finally got the name and contact information for the head guy. He was very candid, and explained the significant efforts he had gone to trying to figure out a solution to the access problem. After our phone call, he even went so far as to contract with a blind computer tech expert I referred him to, and that expert verified that the access problem could not be solved due to fundamental limitations inherent in the old system. I put the matter aside, and several months later, the guy called me out of the blue to tell me that they had just received permission to fund a purchase of the newer generation of the travel claim software, and that fixing the accessibility problem was the specific goal of the purchase. When I asked him how much it cost, the price was somewhere around $700,000. I choked a bit, and told him I felt a bit bad that the fix was so expensive. He chuckled a bit, then told me that he had been trying for several years to get the new software system, for all sorts of non-accessible reasons, and had always been refused. However, when after my phone call he raised the access issue, the purchase was approved. So he thanked me very much for giving him the idea of the approach that actually turned the tide. Now to put this all in perspective. This new computer system was for all of state government, several hundred thousand users in all, and the upgrade was sorely needed since the base platform was over a decade old, even prior to Windows XP, and the cost per user was something like three dollars. So this turned out to be a win-win situation, and in this case, I found the irony of the situation to make for a good yarn, and that as they say, is the rest of the story. Sincerely, Tim Ford _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jimi-law%40dc.rr.c om __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4655 (20091202) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4655 (20091202) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4655 (20091202) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com From mruniverse08 at gmail.com Wed Dec 2 16:59:02 2009 From: mruniverse08 at gmail.com (WB) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 10:59:02 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] state computer system case In-Reply-To: References: <66954123AD474303BCB4E25041063AC8@D3J75Z91>, <20091202023833.rwayne1@nyc.rr.com>, , Message-ID: <021f01ca7370$c03b8ce0$40b2a6a0$@com> Are they still working on the time system? -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Tim Shaw Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 10:41 AM To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org Subject: Re: [blindlaw] state computer system case ah yes that particular system is a pain even for a sighted person > Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 01:43:40 -0600 > To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org > From: dandrews at visi.com > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] state computer system case > > I believe the Texas suit was over the system the state uses where > employees have to enter time worked, and other HR matters. I believe > it was a Peoplesoft application -- they are now owned by Oracle. > > Dave > > At 10:28 PM 12/1/2009, you wrote: > > >The disability determination services agency in Texas as a system > >they use that isnt accessible so blind people cant work for them, > >but they blame it on the IRS whos program they are using. > > > > > From: rwayne1 at nyc.rr.com > > > To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > > Date: Tue, 1 Dec 2009 21:38:33 -0500 > > > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] state computer system case > > > > > > Patti: > > > I think they were in Arkansas and Pennsylvania, but that's all I > > know. We have one in progress in New York, which BGL is handling. I > > know the plaintiff, but I must admit I've fallen out of the loop as > > to the status of the case. > > > Ray > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Patti Gregory-Chang" > > > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > > > Date: Tuesday, Dec 1, 2009 20:50:47 > > > Subject: [bllaw] state computer system case > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I know that there was a big computer access case against a state, maybe > > > > Arizona or Arkansas, in the past few years. Does anyone know the name of > > > > the case or have a copy of the settlement if any? > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/timandvickie%40hot mail.com _________________________________________________________________ Chat with Messenger straight from your Hotmail inbox. http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowslive/hotmail_bl1/hotmail_bl1.aspx?oc id=PID23879::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-ww:WM_IMHM_4:092009 _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniverse08%40gma il.com From angie.matney at gmail.com Wed Dec 2 17:17:34 2009 From: angie.matney at gmail.com (Angie Matney) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 12:17:34 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Confidential Story, state computer system In-Reply-To: <839F18076C66C345BD1C0A4ACA67A1F60413E549@dhsexcmsg12.intra.dhs.ca.gov> References: <66954123AD474303BCB4E25041063AC8@D3J75Z91> <839F18076C66C345BD1C0A4ACA67A1F60413E549@dhsexcmsg12.intra.dhs.ca.gov> Message-ID: <08E32850852243778D8B2DF05E8FB575@arm4rPC> Hi, This list does have a public archive. Angie From jimi-law at dc.rr.com Wed Dec 2 17:25:38 2009 From: jimi-law at dc.rr.com (James Weisberg) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 09:25:38 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] ada and air travel follow-up Message-ID: As the original poster of this thread I wanted to point out the reason for my inquiry was not related to accommodations but rather being publicly humiliated by air carrier staff (stew) which of course is a common carrier and that's a big "no no." Since the humiliation was based upon the presence of a guide dog the ADA first came to mind. Finally, Ben you rock dude!! James W. Weisberg, Esq. Law Office of J. William Weisberg 299 South Patencio Road #3 Palm Springs, California 92262 V: 916.425.1010 F: 916.374.7667 E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com Admitted in Wisconsin Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil Rights Advocacy for Children with Diabetes This message contains information which may be confidential and privileged. Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from your system. This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client relationship nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William Weisberg expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in accordance with this disclaimer. From AZNOR99 at aol.com Wed Dec 2 17:24:41 2009 From: AZNOR99 at aol.com (AZNOR99 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 12:24:41 EST Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel Message-ID: Hello, This is an interesting subject. TSA is generally not responsible for providing a traveler with a guide as a passenger goes through screening. You can always request a Companion Pass from the airline for someone to accompany you; however, it is at the discretion of the airline as to whether or not they grant this request. Most do grant the Pass as long as you give them a valid reason, and most accept accompanying a minor or passenger with a disability or elderly individual as a valid reason. You can request a Companion Pass from the airline at the time of check-in if you bring someone with you to drop you off - you don't necessarily have to let the airline know in advance that you plan to do this. If you want someone to meet you at the gate when you arrive though, you'll need to let the airline know in advance. This is because you won't actually be with the person when they obtain the Companion Pass, so the airline can't verify that they know you or that you'd want them to pick you up. Companions are subject to the same screening and security measures as passengers - valid State or Federal ID, human and belonging scans, etc. TSA does not have jurisdiction over Companion Pass issuance - that is at the discretion of the airlines - they are subject to the regs of the FAA. You can ask for a Guide at the airport as well. Generally airlines prefer you do this in advance, but you can certainly choose to make such a request when you arrive at the airport or land at your destination. If you don't let them know you need someone in advance though, you might have to wait longer for someone to arrive, as airlines try to have staff waiting for passengers about whom they know. We've all seen the line of wheel chairs and uniformed staff waiting when we deplane? Well, they're each usually assigned to a particular person, and they usually know who that person is ahead of time. Airlines, and sometimes airports, are increasingly creating "Passenger Assistance Departments," and escorting passengers is one of their primary functions. There are some airports that utilize the airport police or other airport staff as escorts rather than airline personnel. Sometimes this is because it is incredibly difficult to credential staff for all areas of an airport, which such staff need to possess. Sometimes it may be a small airport, and it would be more efficient to assign escort responsibilities to one person for all the airlines. Or there might be other reasons. However, TSOs - Transportation Security Officers) are trained in how to interact with disabled passengers. For example, if you place your cane on the conveyer belt, a TSO may offer to position you prior to entering the human scanner and reach out to hold your hands to guide you forward. Due to the nature of the scanning equipment, a passenger must not touch the scanning machine - it will not function properly if anything comes into contact with it. Some of us have had the experience of bumping the machine and setting it off in the past. If you run your cane through the baggage scanner and ask for it back to take through the human scanner, you have to be very careful, once again, not to tap the scanner walls with the cane - it will likely set the machine off. Also, if your cane has metal - many of us use metal tips - then it may cause the scanner to go off, necessitating the individual be referred to secondary screening or wanding. I've personally had the experience of placing my cane on the baggage scanning belt and walking toward the human scanner. I walked through the scanner very slowly and did not set it off. However, I was referred to secondary. I always ask why I'm being referred to Secondary (I'm in the business of wanting to know if I'm being discriminated against because of my religion, national origin, or disability). The answer I usually get (not always though, and I've got some funny stories about other times) is "it's random." I conveyed to the TSO that I could not move to the secondary screening area until someone retrieved my cane from the conveyer belt. He got it for me and asked, "Oh, is the reason you moved so slowly through the scanner because you are blind?" I answered that it was, and he told me I was free to go. I insisted on going to Secondary, and he said, "Well you don't need to. Your behavior isn't suspicious. I just thought it was because I didn't know you were being careful not to bump the machine since you couldn't see well." Part of their jobs as TSOs is to monitor suspicious behavior; part of my job is to convey the difference between suspicious behavior and cultural norms. Needless to say I insisted on going to Secondary because I wanted the chance to talk the issue through with the TSO. It was a teachable moment, and I think he really got there could be hundreds of reasons why someone might move slowly through a machine. But for those that have had really bad experiences at TSA or CBP checkpoints, there are a couple of different avenues you can take. If you believe you have been the subject of discrimination, you may file a CRCL (DHS Office for Civil Rights and Civil Liberties - and where I work) complaint. Go to _www.dhs.gov/civilliberties_ (http://www.dhs.gov/civilliberties) to download the form or send an email to _civil.liberties at dhs.gov_ (mailto:civil.liberties at dhs.gov) explaining what happened. Please be sure to give as much detail as possible, including the date, airport name, terminal number, time of day, the name of anyone you obtain, and a narrative explaining what happened. If you have a customer service issue - for example a TSO was rude or dismissive, you may ask for a supervisor, a comment card, or both. You can also contact your local field office after the fact to convey what happened. My message is substantially longer than I intended, and I apologize for the length. Regards, Ronza In a message dated 12/2/2009 4:25:21 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, ckrugman at sbcglobal.net writes: I travel frequently alone and the air lines and/or HSA provide needed assistence upon my request. including through security check points and picking up baggage and assistence with procuring ground transportation or to a waiting party. I have found HSA and airport staff to be very cooperative. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "stiehm.law" To: Cc: Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 12:57 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > In addition to the airlines, I have recently become curious as to what if > any, accommodations for the TSA makes with respect to disabled people > going through security and being picked up by somebody at the gate at the > terminal at the other end of the flight. For example, do they permit a > blind person who is traveling alone to be accompanied through security, > down to the airline check-in counter at the gate by a non-ticketed > person. > > At the other end, is a non-ticketed person permitted through security to > go to the gate to meet a blind person flying alone? > > If TSA does not provide for such accommodations do the airlines take it > on themselves to provide this service? > > Has anybody had any experience in this regard? Is the accommodation, if > any, voluntary on the part of the TSA and/or the airlines or is it > governed by regulation? > > Patrick H. Stiehm > Stiehm Law Office > Alexandria, VA 22309 > 703-360-1089 (Voice) > 703-935-8266 (Fax) > > > > Tue, 1 Dec 2009 11:30:37 -0800 "Russell J. Thomas, Jr." > writes: >> Off the top of my head, and without any new research, the only case >> I >> remember is a case challenging the accessibility of airline websites >> with >> respect to attempting to make reservations and ordering tickets on >> line. >> >> I also think that there are regulations on the subject, especially >> dealing >> with how disabled passengers are to be treated (or perhaps on some >> occasions >> mistreated). >> >> I often thought it would be a good idea for the NFB to put together >> a short >> guide book concerning travel, including air travel, based upon >> experiences >> of NFB members, to be used as a reference guide for blind people who >> use air >> travel. Certainly things have changed since 911--some changes for >> the good, >> and others not so good. >> >> >> >> >> Respectfully, >> >> >> >> Russell J. Thomas, Jr. >> >> THOMAS & ASSOCIATES >> >> www.californiaemployersattorneys.com >> >> >> >> Orange County Office >> >> 4121 Westerly Place, Suite 101 >> >> Newport Beach, California 92660 >> >> T: (949) 752-0101 >> >> F: (949) 257-4756 >> >> M: (949) 466-7238 >> >> >> >> Beverly Hills Office >> >> 9107 Wilshire Boulevard, Suite 450 >> >> Beverly Hills, California 90210 >> >> T: (310) 461-3561 >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf Of James Weisberg >> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 10:01 AM >> To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' >> Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel >> >> Hi Folks: >> >> >> >> Anyone on the lists have experience or knowledge regarding the ADA >> and suits >> against air carriers for violations available for quick consult? >> Thanks. >> >> >> >> James W. Weisberg, Esq. >> >> Law Office of J. William Weisberg >> >> 299 South Patencio Road #3 >> >> Palm Springs, California 92262 >> >> V: 916.425.1010 >> >> F: 916.374.7667 >> >> E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com >> >> Admitted in Wisconsin >> >> Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil >> Rights >> Advocacy for Children with Diabetes >> >> This message contains information which may be confidential and >> privileged. >> Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the >> addressee), >> you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any >> information >> contained in this message. If you have received this message in >> error, >> please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from >> your >> system. >> >> This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client >> relationship >> nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William >> Weisberg >> expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information >> in >> accordance with this disclaimer. >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for >> blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rthomas%40rjtla > wfi >> rm.com >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stiehm.law%40ju > no.com >> > > ____________________________________________________________ > Hotel > Hotel pics, info and virtual tours. Click here to book a hotel online. > http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/c?cp=ewJKbyZ61QloDsW_i_oQ_wAAJ1BdROy9vkzpR6E_Fj7jZTbnAAYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAATRAAAAAA= > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/aznor99%40aol.com From jimi-law at dc.rr.com Wed Dec 2 17:30:22 2009 From: jimi-law at dc.rr.com (James Weisberg) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 09:30:22 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] ada and air travel follow-up Message-ID: As the original poster of this thread I wanted to point out the reason for my inquiry was not related to accommodations but rather being publicly humiliated by air carrier staff (stew) which of course is a common carrier and that's a big "no no." Since the humiliation was based upon the presence of a guide dog the ADA first came to mind. Finally, Ben you rock dude!! James W. Weisberg, Esq. Law Office of J. William Weisberg 299 South Patencio Road #3 Palm Springs, California 92262 V: 916.425.1010 F: 916.374.7667 E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com Admitted in Wisconsin Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil Rights Advocacy for Children with Diabetes This message contains information which may be confidential and privileged. Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from your system. This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client relationship nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William Weisberg expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in accordance with this disclaimer. From jimi-law at dc.rr.com Wed Dec 2 18:01:26 2009 From: jimi-law at dc.rr.com (James Weisberg) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 10:01:26 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel In-Reply-To: <20091201.125747.428.71023@mailpop05.vgs.untd.com> References: <20091201.125747.428.71023@mailpop05.vgs.untd.com> Message-ID: As the original poster of this thread I wanted to point out the reason for my inquiry was not related to accommodations but rather being publicly humiliated by air carrier staff (stew) which of course is a common carrier and that's a big "no no." Since the humiliation was based upon the presence of a guide dog the ADA first came to mind. Finally, Ben you rock dude!! James W. Weisberg, Esq. Law Office of J. William Weisberg 299 South Patencio Road #3 Palm Springs, California 92262 V: 916.425.1010 F: 916.374.7667 E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com Admitted in Wisconsin Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil Rights Advocacy for Children with Diabetes This message contains information which may be confidential and privileged. Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from your system. This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client relationship nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William Weisberg expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in accordance with this disclaimer. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of stiehm.law Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 12:58 PM To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org Cc: blindlaw at nfbnet.org Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel In addition to the airlines, I have recently become curious as to what if any, accommodations for the TSA makes with respect to disabled people going through security and being picked up by somebody at the gate at the terminal at the other end of the flight. For example, do they permit a blind person who is traveling alone to be accompanied through security, down to the airline check-in counter at the gate by a non-ticketed person. At the other end, is a non-ticketed person permitted through security to go to the gate to meet a blind person flying alone? If TSA does not provide for such accommodations do the airlines take it on themselves to provide this service? Has anybody had any experience in this regard? Is the accommodation, if any, voluntary on the part of the TSA and/or the airlines or is it governed by regulation? Patrick H. Stiehm Stiehm Law Office Alexandria, VA 22309 703-360-1089 (Voice) 703-935-8266 (Fax) Tue, 1 Dec 2009 11:30:37 -0800 "Russell J. Thomas, Jr." writes: > Off the top of my head, and without any new research, the only case > I > remember is a case challenging the accessibility of airline websites > with > respect to attempting to make reservations and ordering tickets on > line. > > I also think that there are regulations on the subject, especially > dealing > with how disabled passengers are to be treated (or perhaps on some > occasions > mistreated). > > I often thought it would be a good idea for the NFB to put together > a short > guide book concerning travel, including air travel, based upon > experiences > of NFB members, to be used as a reference guide for blind people who > use air > travel. Certainly things have changed since 911--some changes for > the good, > and others not so good. > > > > > Respectfully, > > > > Russell J. Thomas, Jr. > > THOMAS & ASSOCIATES > > www.californiaemployersattorneys.com > > > > Orange County Office > > 4121 Westerly Place, Suite 101 > > Newport Beach, California 92660 > > T: (949) 752-0101 > > F: (949) 257-4756 > > M: (949) 466-7238 > > > > Beverly Hills Office > > 9107 Wilshire Boulevard, Suite 450 > > Beverly Hills, California 90210 > > T: (310) 461-3561 > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of James Weisberg > Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 10:01 AM > To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' > Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > > Hi Folks: > > > > Anyone on the lists have experience or knowledge regarding the ADA > and suits > against air carriers for violations available for quick consult? > Thanks. > > > > James W. Weisberg, Esq. > > Law Office of J. William Weisberg > > 299 South Patencio Road #3 > > Palm Springs, California 92262 > > V: 916.425.1010 > > F: 916.374.7667 > > E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com > > Admitted in Wisconsin > > Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil > Rights > Advocacy for Children with Diabetes > > This message contains information which may be confidential and > privileged. > Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the > addressee), > you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any > information > contained in this message. If you have received this message in > error, > please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from > your > system. > > This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client > relationship > nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William > Weisberg > expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information > in > accordance with this disclaimer. > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rthomas%40rjtla wfi > rm.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stiehm.law%40ju no.com > ____________________________________________________________ Hotel Hotel pics, info and virtual tours. Click here to book a hotel online. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/c?cp=ewJKbyZ61QloDsW_i_oQ_wAAJ1BdRO y9vkzpR6E_Fj7jZTbnAAYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAATRAAAAAA= _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jimi-law%40dc.rr.c om __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4652 (20091201) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4652 (20091201) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4653 (20091201) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4655 (20091202) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4655 (20091202) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com From benkarpilow at gmail.com Wed Dec 2 18:01:02 2009 From: benkarpilow at gmail.com (Ben Karpilow) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 10:01:02 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] Bar Exam/ Air travel/ practice question References: <755BC5BBB6924782846D2E4A3F5ADF96@spike> Message-ID: <3E00CAC442384C5EB9971997C576778C@benbpgavlhgwwr> Fantastic, Chuck. Rod, you may want to check this out as well to find out if there is a PAor NJ counterpart. While this will likely meet most of my form needs, and I was referring to all forms in general, my broader question is whether there exists a program like adobe, with which I have very limited experience, which allows one to scan in a document, fill it out, and reprint it without altering the form's original format. Naturally, the program would have to allow the user to read the form-- as well as what gets filled in-- with a screen reader. Will adobe acrobat do this? Is there a cheaper, blind-friendlier alternative? Thanks in advance for the feedback. Ben Karpilow ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 1:55 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Bar Exam/ Air travel/ practice question > congratulations on passing the bar! I'm not what actual forms you're > looking for but you may want to check out Martin Dean's publisher of > California essential forms at www.essentialpublishers.com. I have met with > the distributor at various trade shows through the California Association > of Legal Document Assistants and I am told that the forms should work with > screen reading software. He also told me of a client that uses them with > dictation software as well. This is much less expensive than Legal > Solutions and as that software is going away as we know it this is much > more user friendly. > Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal > 1237 P Street > Fresno ca 93721 > 559-266-9237 > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ben Karpilow" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 6:03 PM > Subject: [blindlaw] Bar Exam/ Air travel/ practice question > > >> Hello fello listers, >> >> first of all, I'm happy to report I passed the july 2009 california bar >> examination on my first attempt. I managed to secure an electronic >> version of the MBE's thanks to a pilot program run by the NCBE. I >> understand a lawsuit has been filed on behalf of a blind law student to >> make this accomidation available as a matter of law to qualified bar >> candidates. I understand the plaintiff is is being represented by a >> fellow lister.Good luck, and please keep us updated as to developments >> in this case. >> >> On the subject of air travel, I recall there being an extensive document >> posted not too long ago on this list which contained precisely the type >> of information that was the subject of Mr. Weisberg's original inquiry. >> Perhaps it would be helpful for the original sender, whose name I cannot >> remember, to repost the information. >> >> Finally, a practice question along the lines of one recently asked by Rod >> : when it comes to filling out forms, does anyone have experience with >> software that would enable one to digitize a form, i.e., scan it into a >> computer, then fill it out and print it, without altering the form's >> original format or look. Also, does any such software allow the user to >> read the form, in addition to what he/ she has written? Thank you in >> advance for your responces. >> >> Ben Karpilow >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/benkarpilow%40gmail.com From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Wed Dec 2 18:01:49 2009 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 10:01:49 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] follow up on ADA and Air Travel In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I know this is reaching but would the humiliation constitute a hate crime under the new Federal hate crimes law? Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal 1237 P Street Fresno ca 93721 559-266-9237 ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Weisberg" To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 8:44 AM Subject: [blindlaw] follow up on ADA and Air Travel > As the original poster of this thread I wanted to point out the reason for > my inquiry was not related to accommodations but rather being publicly > humiliated by air carrier staff (stew) which of course is a common carrier > and that's a big "no no." Since the humiliation was based upon the > presence > of a guide dog the ADA first came to mind. > > > > Finally, Ben you rock dude!! > > > > James W. Weisberg, Esq. > > Law Office of J. William Weisberg > > 299 South Patencio Road #3 > > Palm Springs, California 92262 > > V: 916.425.1010 > > F: 916.374.7667 > > E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com > > Admitted in Wisconsin > > Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil Rights > Advocacy for Children with Diabetes > > This message contains information which may be confidential and > privileged. > Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), > you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information > contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, > please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from your > system. > > This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client > relationship > nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William > Weisberg > expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in > accordance with this disclaimer. > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net From mruniverse08 at gmail.com Wed Dec 2 18:18:10 2009 From: mruniverse08 at gmail.com (WB) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 12:18:10 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel In-Reply-To: References: <20091201.125747.428.71023@mailpop05.vgs.untd.com> Message-ID: <024001ca737b$ce917010$6bb45030$@com> Is this message coming through repeatedly? I've gotten the same one three times already. Is this happening to everyone? -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of James Weisberg Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 12:01 PM To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel As the original poster of this thread I wanted to point out the reason for my inquiry was not related to accommodations but rather being publicly humiliated by air carrier staff (stew) which of course is a common carrier and that's a big "no no." Since the humiliation was based upon the presence of a guide dog the ADA first came to mind. Finally, Ben you rock dude!! James W. Weisberg, Esq. Law Office of J. William Weisberg 299 South Patencio Road #3 Palm Springs, California 92262 V: 916.425.1010 F: 916.374.7667 E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com Admitted in Wisconsin Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil Rights Advocacy for Children with Diabetes This message contains information which may be confidential and privileged. Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from your system. This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client relationship nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William Weisberg expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in accordance with this disclaimer. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of stiehm.law Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 12:58 PM To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org Cc: blindlaw at nfbnet.org Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel In addition to the airlines, I have recently become curious as to what if any, accommodations for the TSA makes with respect to disabled people going through security and being picked up by somebody at the gate at the terminal at the other end of the flight. For example, do they permit a blind person who is traveling alone to be accompanied through security, down to the airline check-in counter at the gate by a non-ticketed person. At the other end, is a non-ticketed person permitted through security to go to the gate to meet a blind person flying alone? If TSA does not provide for such accommodations do the airlines take it on themselves to provide this service? Has anybody had any experience in this regard? Is the accommodation, if any, voluntary on the part of the TSA and/or the airlines or is it governed by regulation? Patrick H. Stiehm Stiehm Law Office Alexandria, VA 22309 703-360-1089 (Voice) 703-935-8266 (Fax) Tue, 1 Dec 2009 11:30:37 -0800 "Russell J. Thomas, Jr." writes: > Off the top of my head, and without any new research, the only case > I > remember is a case challenging the accessibility of airline websites > with > respect to attempting to make reservations and ordering tickets on > line. > > I also think that there are regulations on the subject, especially > dealing > with how disabled passengers are to be treated (or perhaps on some > occasions > mistreated). > > I often thought it would be a good idea for the NFB to put together > a short > guide book concerning travel, including air travel, based upon > experiences > of NFB members, to be used as a reference guide for blind people who > use air > travel. Certainly things have changed since 911--some changes for > the good, > and others not so good. > > > > > Respectfully, > > > > Russell J. Thomas, Jr. > > THOMAS & ASSOCIATES > > www.californiaemployersattorneys.com > > > > Orange County Office > > 4121 Westerly Place, Suite 101 > > Newport Beach, California 92660 > > T: (949) 752-0101 > > F: (949) 257-4756 > > M: (949) 466-7238 > > > > Beverly Hills Office > > 9107 Wilshire Boulevard, Suite 450 > > Beverly Hills, California 90210 > > T: (310) 461-3561 > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of James Weisberg > Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 10:01 AM > To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' > Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > > Hi Folks: > > > > Anyone on the lists have experience or knowledge regarding the ADA > and suits > against air carriers for violations available for quick consult? > Thanks. > > > > James W. Weisberg, Esq. > > Law Office of J. William Weisberg > > 299 South Patencio Road #3 > > Palm Springs, California 92262 > > V: 916.425.1010 > > F: 916.374.7667 > > E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com > > Admitted in Wisconsin > > Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil > Rights > Advocacy for Children with Diabetes > > This message contains information which may be confidential and > privileged. > Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the > addressee), > you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any > information > contained in this message. If you have received this message in > error, > please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from > your > system. > > This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client > relationship > nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William > Weisberg > expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information > in > accordance with this disclaimer. > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rthomas%40rjtla wfi > rm.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stiehm.law%40ju no.com > ____________________________________________________________ Hotel Hotel pics, info and virtual tours. Click here to book a hotel online. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/c?cp=ewJKbyZ61QloDsW_i_oQ_wAAJ1BdRO y9vkzpR6E_Fj7jZTbnAAYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAATRAAAAAA= _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jimi-law%40dc.rr.c om __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4652 (20091201) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4652 (20091201) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4653 (20091201) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4655 (20091202) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4655 (20091202) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniverse08%40gma il.com From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Wed Dec 2 18:34:31 2009 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 10:34:31 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel In-Reply-To: <024001ca737b$ce917010$6bb45030$@com> References: <20091201.125747.428.71023@mailpop05.vgs.untd.com> <024001ca737b$ce917010$6bb45030$@com> Message-ID: <09E1135FBCF5474BA8D47D6949F68A5A@spike> your message has only came through once. The original message from James has been posted three times or so. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "WB" To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 10:18 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > Is this message coming through repeatedly? I've gotten the same one three > times already. Is this happening to everyone? > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of James Weisberg > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 12:01 PM > To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > > As the original poster of this thread I wanted to point out the reason for > my inquiry was not related to accommodations but rather being publicly > humiliated by air carrier staff (stew) which of course is a common carrier > and that's a big "no no." Since the humiliation was based upon the > presence > of a guide dog the ADA first came to mind. > > > > Finally, Ben you rock dude!! > > > James W. Weisberg, Esq. > > Law Office of J. William Weisberg > > 299 South Patencio Road #3 > > Palm Springs, California 92262 > > V: 916.425.1010 > > F: 916.374.7667 > > E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com > > Admitted in Wisconsin > > Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil Rights > Advocacy for Children with Diabetes > > This message contains information which may be confidential and > privileged. > Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), > you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information > contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, > please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from your > system. > > This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client > relationship > nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William > Weisberg > expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in > accordance with this disclaimer. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of stiehm.law > Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 12:58 PM > To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org > Cc: blindlaw at nfbnet.org > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > > In addition to the airlines, I have recently become curious as to what if > any, accommodations for the TSA makes with respect to disabled people > going through security and being picked up by somebody at the gate at the > terminal at the other end of the flight. For example, do they permit a > blind person who is traveling alone to be accompanied through security, > down to the airline check-in counter at the gate by a non-ticketed > person. > > At the other end, is a non-ticketed person permitted through security to > go to the gate to meet a blind person flying alone? > > If TSA does not provide for such accommodations do the airlines take it > on themselves to provide this service? > > Has anybody had any experience in this regard? Is the accommodation, if > any, voluntary on the part of the TSA and/or the airlines or is it > governed by regulation? > > Patrick H. Stiehm > Stiehm Law Office > Alexandria, VA 22309 > 703-360-1089 (Voice) > 703-935-8266 (Fax) > > > > Tue, 1 Dec 2009 11:30:37 -0800 "Russell J. Thomas, Jr." > writes: >> Off the top of my head, and without any new research, the only case >> I >> remember is a case challenging the accessibility of airline websites >> with >> respect to attempting to make reservations and ordering tickets on >> line. >> >> I also think that there are regulations on the subject, especially >> dealing >> with how disabled passengers are to be treated (or perhaps on some >> occasions >> mistreated). >> >> I often thought it would be a good idea for the NFB to put together >> a short >> guide book concerning travel, including air travel, based upon >> experiences >> of NFB members, to be used as a reference guide for blind people who >> use air >> travel. Certainly things have changed since 911--some changes for >> the good, >> and others not so good. >> >> >> >> >> Respectfully, >> >> >> >> Russell J. Thomas, Jr. >> >> THOMAS & ASSOCIATES >> >> www.californiaemployersattorneys.com >> >> >> >> Orange County Office >> >> 4121 Westerly Place, Suite 101 >> >> Newport Beach, California 92660 >> >> T: (949) 752-0101 >> >> F: (949) 257-4756 >> >> M: (949) 466-7238 >> >> >> >> Beverly Hills Office >> >> 9107 Wilshire Boulevard, Suite 450 >> >> Beverly Hills, California 90210 >> >> T: (310) 461-3561 >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf Of James Weisberg >> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 10:01 AM >> To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' >> Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel >> >> Hi Folks: >> >> >> >> Anyone on the lists have experience or knowledge regarding the ADA >> and suits >> against air carriers for violations available for quick consult? >> Thanks. >> >> >> >> James W. Weisberg, Esq. >> >> Law Office of J. William Weisberg >> >> 299 South Patencio Road #3 >> >> Palm Springs, California 92262 >> >> V: 916.425.1010 >> >> F: 916.374.7667 >> >> E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com >> >> Admitted in Wisconsin >> >> Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil >> Rights >> Advocacy for Children with Diabetes >> >> This message contains information which may be confidential and >> privileged. >> Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the >> addressee), >> you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any >> information >> contained in this message. If you have received this message in >> error, >> please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from >> your >> system. >> >> This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client >> relationship >> nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William >> Weisberg >> expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information >> in >> accordance with this disclaimer. >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for >> blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rthomas%40rjtla > wfi >> rm.com >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stiehm.law%40ju > no.com >> > > ____________________________________________________________ > Hotel > Hotel pics, info and virtual tours. Click here to book a hotel online. > http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/c?cp=ewJKbyZ61QloDsW_i_oQ_wAAJ1BdRO > y9vkzpR6E_Fj7jZTbnAAYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAATRAAAAAA= > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jimi-law%40dc.rr.c > om > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4652 (20091201) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4652 (20091201) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4653 (20091201) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4655 (20091202) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4655 (20091202) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniverse08%40gma > il.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net From stevep.deeley at insightbb.com Wed Dec 2 19:18:36 2009 From: stevep.deeley at insightbb.com (Steve P. Deeley) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 14:18:36 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel In-Reply-To: References: <20091201.125747.428.71023@mailpop05.vgs.untd.com> Message-ID: In your opinion, how were you humiliated? Steve Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Weisberg" To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 1:01 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > As the original poster of this thread I wanted to point out the reason for > my inquiry was not related to accommodations but rather being publicly > humiliated by air carrier staff (stew) which of course is a common carrier > and that's a big "no no." Since the humiliation was based upon the > presence > of a guide dog the ADA first came to mind. > > > > Finally, Ben you rock dude!! > > > James W. Weisberg, Esq. > > Law Office of J. William Weisberg > > 299 South Patencio Road #3 > > Palm Springs, California 92262 > > V: 916.425.1010 > > F: 916.374.7667 > > E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com > > Admitted in Wisconsin > > Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil Rights > Advocacy for Children with Diabetes > > This message contains information which may be confidential and > privileged. > Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), > you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information > contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, > please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from your > system. > > This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client > relationship > nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William > Weisberg > expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in > accordance with this disclaimer. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of stiehm.law > Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 12:58 PM > To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org > Cc: blindlaw at nfbnet.org > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > > In addition to the airlines, I have recently become curious as to what if > any, accommodations for the TSA makes with respect to disabled people > going through security and being picked up by somebody at the gate at the > terminal at the other end of the flight. For example, do they permit a > blind person who is traveling alone to be accompanied through security, > down to the airline check-in counter at the gate by a non-ticketed > person. > > At the other end, is a non-ticketed person permitted through security to > go to the gate to meet a blind person flying alone? > > If TSA does not provide for such accommodations do the airlines take it > on themselves to provide this service? > > Has anybody had any experience in this regard? Is the accommodation, if > any, voluntary on the part of the TSA and/or the airlines or is it > governed by regulation? > > Patrick H. Stiehm > Stiehm Law Office > Alexandria, VA 22309 > 703-360-1089 (Voice) > 703-935-8266 (Fax) > > > > Tue, 1 Dec 2009 11:30:37 -0800 "Russell J. Thomas, Jr." > writes: >> Off the top of my head, and without any new research, the only case >> I >> remember is a case challenging the accessibility of airline websites >> with >> respect to attempting to make reservations and ordering tickets on >> line. >> >> I also think that there are regulations on the subject, especially >> dealing >> with how disabled passengers are to be treated (or perhaps on some >> occasions >> mistreated). >> >> I often thought it would be a good idea for the NFB to put together >> a short >> guide book concerning travel, including air travel, based upon >> experiences >> of NFB members, to be used as a reference guide for blind people who >> use air >> travel. Certainly things have changed since 911--some changes for >> the good, >> and others not so good. >> >> >> >> >> Respectfully, >> >> >> >> Russell J. Thomas, Jr. >> >> THOMAS & ASSOCIATES >> >> www.californiaemployersattorneys.com >> >> >> >> Orange County Office >> >> 4121 Westerly Place, Suite 101 >> >> Newport Beach, California 92660 >> >> T: (949) 752-0101 >> >> F: (949) 257-4756 >> >> M: (949) 466-7238 >> >> >> >> Beverly Hills Office >> >> 9107 Wilshire Boulevard, Suite 450 >> >> Beverly Hills, California 90210 >> >> T: (310) 461-3561 >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf Of James Weisberg >> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 10:01 AM >> To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' >> Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel >> >> Hi Folks: >> >> >> >> Anyone on the lists have experience or knowledge regarding the ADA >> and suits >> against air carriers for violations available for quick consult? >> Thanks. >> >> >> >> James W. Weisberg, Esq. >> >> Law Office of J. William Weisberg >> >> 299 South Patencio Road #3 >> >> Palm Springs, California 92262 >> >> V: 916.425.1010 >> >> F: 916.374.7667 >> >> E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com >> >> Admitted in Wisconsin >> >> Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil >> Rights >> Advocacy for Children with Diabetes >> >> This message contains information which may be confidential and >> privileged. >> Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the >> addressee), >> you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any >> information >> contained in this message. If you have received this message in >> error, >> please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from >> your >> system. >> >> This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client >> relationship >> nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William >> Weisberg >> expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information >> in >> accordance with this disclaimer. >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for >> blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rthomas%40rjtla > wfi >> rm.com >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stiehm.law%40ju > no.com >> > > ____________________________________________________________ > Hotel > Hotel pics, info and virtual tours. Click here to book a hotel online. > http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/c?cp=ewJKbyZ61QloDsW_i_oQ_wAAJ1BdRO > y9vkzpR6E_Fj7jZTbnAAYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAATRAAAAAA= > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jimi-law%40dc.rr.c > om > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4652 (20091201) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4652 (20091201) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4653 (20091201) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4655 (20091202) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4655 (20091202) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.426 / Virus Database: 270.14.90/2540 - Release Date: 12/02/09 07:33:00 From stevep.deeley at insightbb.com Wed Dec 2 19:20:46 2009 From: stevep.deeley at insightbb.com (Steve P. Deeley) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 14:20:46 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Just tip a sky cap to assist you through security and on to your gate. They do this all the time. And, by the way, don't be cheep and slip them, at least, five bucks. You can get real good service when you bring out the bucks. Steve Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 12:24 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > Hello, > > This is an interesting subject. TSA is generally not responsible for > providing a traveler with a guide as a passenger goes through screening. > You > can always request a Companion Pass from the airline for someone to > accompany you; however, it is at the discretion of the airline as to > whether or not > they grant this request. Most do grant the Pass as long as you give them > a valid reason, and most accept accompanying a minor or passenger with a > disability or elderly individual as a valid reason. You can request a > Companion Pass from the airline at the time of check-in if you bring > someone with > you to drop you off - you don't necessarily have to let the airline know > in advance that you plan to do this. If you want someone to meet you at > the > gate when you arrive though, you'll need to let the airline know in > advance. This is because you won't actually be with the person when they > obtain > the Companion Pass, so the airline can't verify that they know you or > that > you'd want them to pick you up. Companions are subject to the same > screening and security measures as passengers - valid State or Federal > ID, human > and belonging scans, etc. TSA does not have jurisdiction over Companion > Pass issuance - that is at the discretion of the airlines - they are > subject > to the regs of the FAA. > > You can ask for a Guide at the airport as well. Generally airlines > prefer > you do this in advance, but you can certainly choose to make such a > request when you arrive at the airport or land at your destination. If > you don't > let them know you need someone in advance though, you might have to wait > longer for someone to arrive, as airlines try to have staff waiting for > passengers about whom they know. We've all seen the line of wheel chairs > and > uniformed staff waiting when we deplane? Well, they're each usually > assigned to a particular person, and they usually know who that person is > ahead of > time. Airlines, and sometimes airports, are increasingly creating > "Passenger Assistance Departments," and escorting passengers is one of > their > primary functions. > > There are some airports that utilize the airport police or other airport > staff as escorts rather than airline personnel. Sometimes this is because > it is incredibly difficult to credential staff for all areas of an > airport, > which such staff need to possess. Sometimes it may be a small airport, > and > it would be more efficient to assign escort responsibilities to one person > for all the airlines. Or there might be other reasons. > > However, TSOs - Transportation Security Officers) are trained in how to > interact with disabled passengers. For example, if you place your cane on > the conveyer belt, a TSO may offer to position you prior to entering the > human > scanner and reach out to hold your hands to guide you forward. Due to the > nature of the scanning equipment, a passenger must not touch the scanning > machine - it will not function properly if anything comes into contact > with > it. Some of us have had the experience of bumping the machine and setting > it off in the past. > > If you run your cane through the baggage scanner and ask for it back to > take through the human scanner, you have to be very careful, once again, > not > to tap the scanner walls with the cane - it will likely set the machine > off. > Also, if your cane has metal - many of us use metal tips - then it may > cause the scanner to go off, necessitating the individual be referred to > secondary screening or wanding. > > I've personally had the experience of placing my cane on the baggage > scanning belt and walking toward the human scanner. I walked through the > scanner very slowly and did not set it off. However, I was referred to > secondary. I always ask why I'm being referred to Secondary (I'm in the > business of > wanting to know if I'm being discriminated against because of my > religion, > national origin, or disability). The answer I usually get (not always > though, and I've got some funny stories about other times) is "it's > random." > I conveyed to the TSO that I could not move to the secondary screening > area > until someone retrieved my cane from the conveyer belt. He got it for me > and asked, "Oh, is the reason you moved so slowly through the scanner > because you are blind?" I answered that it was, and he told me I was free > to go. > I insisted on going to Secondary, and he said, "Well you don't need to. > Your behavior isn't suspicious. I just thought it was because I didn't > know > you were being careful not to bump the machine since you couldn't see > well." Part of their jobs as TSOs is to monitor suspicious behavior; part > of my > job is to convey the difference between suspicious behavior and cultural > norms. Needless to say I insisted on going to Secondary because I wanted > the chance to talk the issue through with the TSO. It was a teachable > moment, > and I think he really got there could be hundreds of reasons why someone > might move slowly through a machine. > > But for those that have had really bad experiences at TSA or CBP > checkpoints, there are a couple of different avenues you can take. If you > believe > you have been the subject of discrimination, you may file a CRCL (DHS > Office > for Civil Rights and Civil Liberties - and where I work) complaint. Go > to > _www.dhs.gov/civilliberties_ (http://www.dhs.gov/civilliberties) to > download the form or send an email to _civil.liberties at dhs.gov_ > (mailto:civil.liberties at dhs.gov) explaining what happened. Please be > sure to give as much > detail as possible, including the date, airport name, terminal number, > time > of day, the name of anyone you obtain, and a narrative explaining what > happened. If you have a customer service issue - for example a TSO was > rude > or dismissive, you may ask for a supervisor, a comment card, or both. > You > can also contact your local field office after the fact to convey what > happened. > > My message is substantially longer than I intended, and I apologize for > the > length. > > Regards, > Ronza > > > > > In a message dated 12/2/2009 4:25:21 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, > ckrugman at sbcglobal.net writes: > > I travel frequently alone and the air lines and/or HSA provide needed > assistence upon my request. including through security check points and > picking up baggage and assistence with procuring ground transportation or > to > a waiting party. I have found HSA and airport staff to be very > cooperative. > Chuck > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "stiehm.law" > To: > Cc: > Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 12:57 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > > >> In addition to the airlines, I have recently become curious as to what >> if >> any, accommodations for the TSA makes with respect to disabled people >> going through security and being picked up by somebody at the gate at >> the >> terminal at the other end of the flight. For example, do they permit a >> blind person who is traveling alone to be accompanied through security, >> down to the airline check-in counter at the gate by a non-ticketed >> person. >> >> At the other end, is a non-ticketed person permitted through security to >> go to the gate to meet a blind person flying alone? >> >> If TSA does not provide for such accommodations do the airlines take it >> on themselves to provide this service? >> >> Has anybody had any experience in this regard? Is the accommodation, if >> any, voluntary on the part of the TSA and/or the airlines or is it >> governed by regulation? >> >> Patrick H. Stiehm >> Stiehm Law Office >> Alexandria, VA 22309 >> 703-360-1089 (Voice) >> 703-935-8266 (Fax) >> >> >> >> Tue, 1 Dec 2009 11:30:37 -0800 "Russell J. Thomas, Jr." >> writes: >>> Off the top of my head, and without any new research, the only case >>> I >>> remember is a case challenging the accessibility of airline websites >>> with >>> respect to attempting to make reservations and ordering tickets on >>> line. >>> >>> I also think that there are regulations on the subject, especially >>> dealing >>> with how disabled passengers are to be treated (or perhaps on some >>> occasions >>> mistreated). >>> >>> I often thought it would be a good idea for the NFB to put together >>> a short >>> guide book concerning travel, including air travel, based upon >>> experiences >>> of NFB members, to be used as a reference guide for blind people who >>> use air >>> travel. Certainly things have changed since 911--some changes for >>> the good, >>> and others not so good. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Respectfully, >>> >>> >>> >>> Russell J. Thomas, Jr. >>> >>> THOMAS & ASSOCIATES >>> >>> www.californiaemployersattorneys.com >>> >>> >>> >>> Orange County Office >>> >>> 4121 Westerly Place, Suite 101 >>> >>> Newport Beach, California 92660 >>> >>> T: (949) 752-0101 >>> >>> F: (949) 257-4756 >>> >>> M: (949) 466-7238 >>> >>> >>> >>> Beverly Hills Office >>> >>> 9107 Wilshire Boulevard, Suite 450 >>> >>> Beverly Hills, California 90210 >>> >>> T: (310) 461-3561 >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>> Behalf Of James Weisberg >>> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 10:01 AM >>> To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' >>> Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel >>> >>> Hi Folks: >>> >>> >>> >>> Anyone on the lists have experience or knowledge regarding the ADA >>> and suits >>> against air carriers for violations available for quick consult? >>> Thanks. >>> >>> >>> >>> James W. Weisberg, Esq. >>> >>> Law Office of J. William Weisberg >>> >>> 299 South Patencio Road #3 >>> >>> Palm Springs, California 92262 >>> >>> V: 916.425.1010 >>> >>> F: 916.374.7667 >>> >>> E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com >>> >>> Admitted in Wisconsin >>> >>> Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil >>> Rights >>> Advocacy for Children with Diabetes >>> >>> This message contains information which may be confidential and >>> privileged. >>> Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the >>> addressee), >>> you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any >>> information >>> contained in this message. If you have received this message in >>> error, >>> please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from >>> your >>> system. >>> >>> This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client >>> relationship >>> nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William >>> Weisberg >>> expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information >>> in >>> accordance with this disclaimer. >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> blindlaw: >>> >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rthomas%40rjtla >> wfi >>> rm.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for blindlaw: >>> >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stiehm.law%40ju >> no.com >>> >> >> ____________________________________________________________ >> Hotel >> Hotel pics, info and virtual tours. Click here to book a hotel online. >> > http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/c?cp=ewJKbyZ61QloDsW_i_oQ_wAAJ1BdROy9vkzpR6E_Fj7jZTbnAAYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAATRAAAAAA= >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/aznor99%40aol.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.426 / Virus Database: 270.14.90/2540 - Release Date: 12/02/09 07:33:00 From attorney at alcidonislaw.com Wed Dec 2 20:03:21 2009 From: attorney at alcidonislaw.com (Rod Alcidonis) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 15:03:21 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Bar Exam/ Air travel/ practice question In-Reply-To: <3E00CAC442384C5EB9971997C576778C@benbpgavlhgwwr> References: <755BC5BBB6924782846D2E4A3F5ADF96@spike> <3E00CAC442384C5EB9971997C576778C@benbpgavlhgwwr> Message-ID: I will take a look on the web... Rod Alcidonis Attorney and Counselor at Law Philadelphia, PA Licensed in PA -- NJ pending C. 718-704-4651 Attorney at alcidonislaw.com "A lawyer is either a social engineer or a parasite." - Charles Hamilton Houston -------------------------------------------------- From: "Ben Karpilow" Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 1:01 PM To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Bar Exam/ Air travel/ practice question > Fantastic, Chuck. Rod, you may want to check this out as well to find out > if there is a PAor NJ counterpart. > > While this will likely meet most of my form needs, and I was referring to > all forms in general, my broader question is whether there exists a > program like adobe, with which I have very limited experience, which > allows one to scan in a document, fill it out, and reprint it without > altering the form's original format. Naturally, the program would have to > allow the user to read the form-- as well as what gets filled in-- with a > screen reader. Will adobe acrobat do this? Is there a cheaper, > blind-friendlier alternative? Thanks in advance for the feedback. > > Ben Karpilow > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 1:55 AM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Bar Exam/ Air travel/ practice question > > >> congratulations on passing the bar! I'm not what actual forms you're >> looking for but you may want to check out Martin Dean's publisher of >> California essential forms at www.essentialpublishers.com. I have met >> with the distributor at various trade shows through the California >> Association of Legal Document Assistants and I am told that the forms >> should work with screen reading software. He also told me of a client >> that uses them with dictation software as well. This is much less >> expensive than Legal Solutions and as that software is going away as we >> know it this is much more user friendly. >> Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal >> 1237 P Street >> Fresno ca 93721 >> 559-266-9237 >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Ben Karpilow" >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 6:03 PM >> Subject: [blindlaw] Bar Exam/ Air travel/ practice question >> >> >>> Hello fello listers, >>> >>> first of all, I'm happy to report I passed the july 2009 california bar >>> examination on my first attempt. I managed to secure an electronic >>> version of the MBE's thanks to a pilot program run by the NCBE. I >>> understand a lawsuit has been filed on behalf of a blind law student to >>> make this accomidation available as a matter of law to qualified bar >>> candidates. I understand the plaintiff is is being represented by a >>> fellow lister.Good luck, and please keep us updated as to developments >>> in this case. >>> >>> On the subject of air travel, I recall there being an extensive document >>> posted not too long ago on this list which contained precisely the type >>> of information that was the subject of Mr. Weisberg's original inquiry. >>> Perhaps it would be helpful for the original sender, whose name I cannot >>> remember, to repost the information. >>> >>> Finally, a practice question along the lines of one recently asked by >>> Rod : when it comes to filling out forms, does anyone have experience >>> with software that would enable one to digitize a form, i.e., scan it >>> into a computer, then fill it out and print it, without altering the >>> form's original format or look. Also, does any such software allow the >>> user to read the form, in addition to what he/ she has written? Thank >>> you in advance for your responces. >>> >>> Ben Karpilow >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/benkarpilow%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/attorney%40alcidonislaw.com From jimi-law at dc.rr.com Wed Dec 2 20:34:07 2009 From: jimi-law at dc.rr.com (James Weisberg) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 12:34:07 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] follow up on ADA and Air Travel In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: worth a little research. I like the approach. Thanks. James W. Weisberg, Esq. Law Office of J. William Weisberg 299 South Patencio Road #3 Palm Springs, California 92262 V: 916.425.1010 F: 916.374.7667 E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com Admitted in Wisconsin Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil Rights Advocacy for Children with Diabetes This message contains information which may be confidential and privileged. Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from your system. This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client relationship nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William Weisberg expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in accordance with this disclaimer. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 10:02 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] follow up on ADA and Air Travel I know this is reaching but would the humiliation constitute a hate crime under the new Federal hate crimes law? Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal 1237 P Street Fresno ca 93721 559-266-9237 ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Weisberg" To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 8:44 AM Subject: [blindlaw] follow up on ADA and Air Travel > As the original poster of this thread I wanted to point out the reason for > my inquiry was not related to accommodations but rather being publicly > humiliated by air carrier staff (stew) which of course is a common carrier > and that's a big "no no." Since the humiliation was based upon the > presence > of a guide dog the ADA first came to mind. > > > > Finally, Ben you rock dude!! > > > > James W. Weisberg, Esq. > > Law Office of J. William Weisberg > > 299 South Patencio Road #3 > > Palm Springs, California 92262 > > V: 916.425.1010 > > F: 916.374.7667 > > E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com > > Admitted in Wisconsin > > Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil Rights > Advocacy for Children with Diabetes > > This message contains information which may be confidential and > privileged. > Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), > you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information > contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, > please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from your > system. > > This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client > relationship > nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William > Weisberg > expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in > accordance with this disclaimer. > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob al.net _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jimi-law%40dc.rr.c om __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4655 (20091202) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4655 (20091202) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4656 (20091202) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4656 (20091202) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com From jimi-law at dc.rr.com Wed Dec 2 20:40:18 2009 From: jimi-law at dc.rr.com (James Weisberg) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 12:40:18 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel In-Reply-To: References: <20091201.125747.428.71023@mailpop05.vgs.untd.com> Message-ID: <93D426D90E0F47678A7E578E71609E06@screnci.local> being marginalized because of something (my case disability)in front of a plane full of passengers is humiliating. No? James W. Weisberg, Esq. Law Office of J. William Weisberg 299 South Patencio Road #3 Palm Springs, California 92262 V: 916.425.1010 F: 916.374.7667 E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com Admitted in Wisconsin Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil Rights Advocacy for Children with Diabetes This message contains information which may be confidential and privileged. Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from your system. This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client relationship nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William Weisberg expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in accordance with this disclaimer. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 11:19 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel In your opinion, how were you humiliated? Steve Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Weisberg" To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 1:01 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > As the original poster of this thread I wanted to point out the reason for > my inquiry was not related to accommodations but rather being publicly > humiliated by air carrier staff (stew) which of course is a common carrier > and that's a big "no no." Since the humiliation was based upon the > presence > of a guide dog the ADA first came to mind. > > > > Finally, Ben you rock dude!! > > > James W. Weisberg, Esq. > > Law Office of J. William Weisberg > > 299 South Patencio Road #3 > > Palm Springs, California 92262 > > V: 916.425.1010 > > F: 916.374.7667 > > E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com > > Admitted in Wisconsin > > Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil Rights > Advocacy for Children with Diabetes > > This message contains information which may be confidential and > privileged. > Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), > you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information > contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, > please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from your > system. > > This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client > relationship > nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William > Weisberg > expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in > accordance with this disclaimer. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of stiehm.law > Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 12:58 PM > To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org > Cc: blindlaw at nfbnet.org > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > > In addition to the airlines, I have recently become curious as to what if > any, accommodations for the TSA makes with respect to disabled people > going through security and being picked up by somebody at the gate at the > terminal at the other end of the flight. For example, do they permit a > blind person who is traveling alone to be accompanied through security, > down to the airline check-in counter at the gate by a non-ticketed > person. > > At the other end, is a non-ticketed person permitted through security to > go to the gate to meet a blind person flying alone? > > If TSA does not provide for such accommodations do the airlines take it > on themselves to provide this service? > > Has anybody had any experience in this regard? Is the accommodation, if > any, voluntary on the part of the TSA and/or the airlines or is it > governed by regulation? > > Patrick H. Stiehm > Stiehm Law Office > Alexandria, VA 22309 > 703-360-1089 (Voice) > 703-935-8266 (Fax) > > > > Tue, 1 Dec 2009 11:30:37 -0800 "Russell J. Thomas, Jr." > writes: >> Off the top of my head, and without any new research, the only case >> I >> remember is a case challenging the accessibility of airline websites >> with >> respect to attempting to make reservations and ordering tickets on >> line. >> >> I also think that there are regulations on the subject, especially >> dealing >> with how disabled passengers are to be treated (or perhaps on some >> occasions >> mistreated). >> >> I often thought it would be a good idea for the NFB to put together >> a short >> guide book concerning travel, including air travel, based upon >> experiences >> of NFB members, to be used as a reference guide for blind people who >> use air >> travel. Certainly things have changed since 911--some changes for >> the good, >> and others not so good. >> >> >> >> >> Respectfully, >> >> >> >> Russell J. Thomas, Jr. >> >> THOMAS & ASSOCIATES >> >> www.californiaemployersattorneys.com >> >> >> >> Orange County Office >> >> 4121 Westerly Place, Suite 101 >> >> Newport Beach, California 92660 >> >> T: (949) 752-0101 >> >> F: (949) 257-4756 >> >> M: (949) 466-7238 >> >> >> >> Beverly Hills Office >> >> 9107 Wilshire Boulevard, Suite 450 >> >> Beverly Hills, California 90210 >> >> T: (310) 461-3561 >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf Of James Weisberg >> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 10:01 AM >> To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' >> Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel >> >> Hi Folks: >> >> >> >> Anyone on the lists have experience or knowledge regarding the ADA >> and suits >> against air carriers for violations available for quick consult? >> Thanks. >> >> >> >> James W. Weisberg, Esq. >> >> Law Office of J. William Weisberg >> >> 299 South Patencio Road #3 >> >> Palm Springs, California 92262 >> >> V: 916.425.1010 >> >> F: 916.374.7667 >> >> E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com >> >> Admitted in Wisconsin >> >> Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil >> Rights >> Advocacy for Children with Diabetes >> >> This message contains information which may be confidential and >> privileged. >> Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the >> addressee), >> you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any >> information >> contained in this message. If you have received this message in >> error, >> please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from >> your >> system. >> >> This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client >> relationship >> nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William >> Weisberg >> expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information >> in >> accordance with this disclaimer. >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for >> blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rthomas%40rjtla > wfi >> rm.com >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stiehm.law%40ju > no.com >> > > ____________________________________________________________ > Hotel > Hotel pics, info and virtual tours. Click here to book a hotel online. > http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/c?cp=ewJKbyZ61QloDsW_i_oQ_wAAJ1BdRO > y9vkzpR6E_Fj7jZTbnAAYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAATRAAAAAA= > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jimi-law%40dc.rr.c > om > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4652 (20091201) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4652 (20091201) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4653 (20091201) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4655 (20091202) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4655 (20091202) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in sightbb.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.426 / Virus Database: 270.14.90/2540 - Release Date: 12/02/09 07:33:00 _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jimi-law%40dc.rr.c om __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4656 (20091202) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4656 (20091202) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4656 (20091202) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com From mruniverse08 at gmail.com Wed Dec 2 21:06:10 2009 From: mruniverse08 at gmail.com (WB) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 15:06:10 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel In-Reply-To: <93D426D90E0F47678A7E578E71609E06@screnci.local> References: <20091201.125747.428.71023@mailpop05.vgs.untd.com> <93D426D90E0F47678A7E578E71609E06@screnci.local> Message-ID: <027601ca7393$4693d280$d3bb7780$@com> Well, exactly how wer you marginalized is what the question is I think. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of James Weisberg Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 2:40 PM To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel being marginalized because of something (my case disability)in front of a plane full of passengers is humiliating. No? James W. Weisberg, Esq. Law Office of J. William Weisberg 299 South Patencio Road #3 Palm Springs, California 92262 V: 916.425.1010 F: 916.374.7667 E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com Admitted in Wisconsin Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil Rights Advocacy for Children with Diabetes This message contains information which may be confidential and privileged. Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from your system. This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client relationship nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William Weisberg expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in accordance with this disclaimer. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 11:19 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel In your opinion, how were you humiliated? Steve Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Weisberg" To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 1:01 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > As the original poster of this thread I wanted to point out the reason for > my inquiry was not related to accommodations but rather being publicly > humiliated by air carrier staff (stew) which of course is a common carrier > and that's a big "no no." Since the humiliation was based upon the > presence > of a guide dog the ADA first came to mind. > > > > Finally, Ben you rock dude!! > > > James W. Weisberg, Esq. > > Law Office of J. William Weisberg > > 299 South Patencio Road #3 > > Palm Springs, California 92262 > > V: 916.425.1010 > > F: 916.374.7667 > > E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com > > Admitted in Wisconsin > > Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil Rights > Advocacy for Children with Diabetes > > This message contains information which may be confidential and > privileged. > Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), > you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information > contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, > please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from your > system. > > This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client > relationship > nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William > Weisberg > expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in > accordance with this disclaimer. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of stiehm.law > Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 12:58 PM > To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org > Cc: blindlaw at nfbnet.org > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > > In addition to the airlines, I have recently become curious as to what if > any, accommodations for the TSA makes with respect to disabled people > going through security and being picked up by somebody at the gate at the > terminal at the other end of the flight. For example, do they permit a > blind person who is traveling alone to be accompanied through security, > down to the airline check-in counter at the gate by a non-ticketed > person. > > At the other end, is a non-ticketed person permitted through security to > go to the gate to meet a blind person flying alone? > > If TSA does not provide for such accommodations do the airlines take it > on themselves to provide this service? > > Has anybody had any experience in this regard? Is the accommodation, if > any, voluntary on the part of the TSA and/or the airlines or is it > governed by regulation? > > Patrick H. Stiehm > Stiehm Law Office > Alexandria, VA 22309 > 703-360-1089 (Voice) > 703-935-8266 (Fax) > > > > Tue, 1 Dec 2009 11:30:37 -0800 "Russell J. Thomas, Jr." > writes: >> Off the top of my head, and without any new research, the only case >> I >> remember is a case challenging the accessibility of airline websites >> with >> respect to attempting to make reservations and ordering tickets on >> line. >> >> I also think that there are regulations on the subject, especially >> dealing >> with how disabled passengers are to be treated (or perhaps on some >> occasions >> mistreated). >> >> I often thought it would be a good idea for the NFB to put together >> a short >> guide book concerning travel, including air travel, based upon >> experiences >> of NFB members, to be used as a reference guide for blind people who >> use air >> travel. Certainly things have changed since 911--some changes for >> the good, >> and others not so good. >> >> >> >> >> Respectfully, >> >> >> >> Russell J. Thomas, Jr. >> >> THOMAS & ASSOCIATES >> >> www.californiaemployersattorneys.com >> >> >> >> Orange County Office >> >> 4121 Westerly Place, Suite 101 >> >> Newport Beach, California 92660 >> >> T: (949) 752-0101 >> >> F: (949) 257-4756 >> >> M: (949) 466-7238 >> >> >> >> Beverly Hills Office >> >> 9107 Wilshire Boulevard, Suite 450 >> >> Beverly Hills, California 90210 >> >> T: (310) 461-3561 >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf Of James Weisberg >> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 10:01 AM >> To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' >> Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel >> >> Hi Folks: >> >> >> >> Anyone on the lists have experience or knowledge regarding the ADA >> and suits >> against air carriers for violations available for quick consult? >> Thanks. >> >> >> >> James W. Weisberg, Esq. >> >> Law Office of J. William Weisberg >> >> 299 South Patencio Road #3 >> >> Palm Springs, California 92262 >> >> V: 916.425.1010 >> >> F: 916.374.7667 >> >> E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com >> >> Admitted in Wisconsin >> >> Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil >> Rights >> Advocacy for Children with Diabetes >> >> This message contains information which may be confidential and >> privileged. >> Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the >> addressee), >> you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any >> information >> contained in this message. If you have received this message in >> error, >> please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from >> your >> system. >> >> This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client >> relationship >> nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William >> Weisberg >> expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information >> in >> accordance with this disclaimer. >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for >> blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rthomas%40rjtla > wfi >> rm.com >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stiehm.law%40ju > no.com >> > > ____________________________________________________________ > Hotel > Hotel pics, info and virtual tours. Click here to book a hotel online. > http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/c?cp=ewJKbyZ61QloDsW_i_oQ_wAAJ1BdRO > y9vkzpR6E_Fj7jZTbnAAYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAATRAAAAAA= > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jimi-law%40dc.rr.c > om > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4652 (20091201) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4652 (20091201) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4653 (20091201) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4655 (20091202) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4655 (20091202) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in sightbb.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.426 / Virus Database: 270.14.90/2540 - Release Date: 12/02/09 07:33:00 _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jimi-law%40dc.rr.c om __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4656 (20091202) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4656 (20091202) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4656 (20091202) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniverse08%40gma il.com From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov Wed Dec 2 21:14:00 2009 From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 15:14:00 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] FW: Attorney Vacancies at the U.S. Department of Justice Message-ID: ________________________________ From: jobs-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:jobs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Maurer, Patricia Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 9:07 AM To: jobs at nfbnet.org Subject: [Jobs] FW: Attorney Vacancies at the U.S. Department of Justice ________________________________ From: Hunter, Sue [mailto:Sue.Hunter at usdoj.gov] Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 12:06 PM To: Maurer, Patricia; nijc at aol.com; nlove at opd.state.md.us; nmcconnell at jackscamp.com; noconnell at tabinc.org; noryrp at cox.net; nromulus at gmail.com; ntb at boglechang.com; nwpatton at law.stanford.edu; ocaaba at cox.net; omanager at lawyerscomm.org; palsd at hotmail.com; patel at fr.com; pchanster at yahoo.com; pchapman at koonz.com; pgrewal at daycasebeer.com; pkim at lordbissell.com; Maurer, Patricia; pmorrison at state.wv.us; poppy.johnston at unlv.edu; president at abaw.org; president at adc.org Subject: FW: Attorney Vacancies at the U.S. Department of Justice To learn more about our attorneys and what they like most about working at DOJ, please visit our attorney profiles at, http://www.usdoj.gov/oarm/arm/profiles.htm, and the video clips of our attorneys and interns available at https://www.avuedigitalservices.com/ads/jobsatdojoarm/index.jsp We encourage you to share this email with interested colleagues and peers. If you no longer wish to receive these periodic email announcements, please respond to this email address and ask to be removed from our mailing list. Thank you. Current Department of Justice Attorney Vacancies * UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE EASTERN DISTRICT OF CALIFORNIA ASSISTANT UNITED STATES ATTORNEY FRESNO, CALIFORNIA NOVEMBER 30, 2009 10-EDCA-06A Applications should be postmarked no later than Friday, December 18, 2009. Date posted: 11-30-2009 * UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE EASTERN DISTRICT OF CALIFORNIA ASSISTANT UNITED STATES ATTORNEY FRESNO, CALIFORNIA NOVEMBER 30, 2009 10-EDCA-05A Applications should be postmarked no later than Friday, December 18, 2009. Date posted: 11-30-2009 * U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE EXECUTIVE OFFICE FOR UNITED STATES ATTORNEYS NATIONAL INDIAN COUNTRY TRAINING COORDINATOR (NICTC) ATTORNEY ADVISOR GS-0905-15 Submission Process and Deadline Date Open: 11/30/2009 Close: 12/11/2009 Date posted: 11-30-2009 * ASSISTANT UNITED STATES ATTORNEY UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE NORTHERN DISTRICT OF TEXAS FT. WORTH, TX. Hand-Delivered applications must be received by 5:00pm December 16, 2009. Mailed applications must be postmarked by December 16, 2009 Date posted: 11-25-2009 * U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE DRUG ENFORCEMENT ADMINISTRATION OFFICE OF CHIEF COUNSEL / CIVIL LITIGATION SECTION EXPERIENCED ATTORNEYS / GS-11 to GS-14 (PROMOTION POTENTIAL to GS-15) Applications must be received by January 2, 2010 Date posted: 11-25-2009 * GENERAL ATTORNEY, GS 12/13/14/15 OFFICE OF PROFESSIONAL RESPONSIBILITY (OPR) FEDERAL BUREAU OF INVESTIGATION WASHINGTON, D.C Submissions must be received by DECEMBER 10, 2009. Date posted: 11-25-2009 * ASSISTANT UNITED STATES ATTORNEY VACANCY (2 POSITIONS) UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE NORTHERN DISTRICT OF IOWA This announcement will remain open until the position(s) are filled, with first consideration given to those application materials postmarked by December 2, 2009. Date posted: 11-25-2009 * U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE TAX DIVISION, CIVIL TRIAL SECTIONS WASHINGTON, D.C. Applications will be considered on a rolling basis and should be submitted no later than January 11, 2010. Date posted: 11-25-2009 * U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE TAX DIVISION, CRIMINAL ENFORCEMENT SECTIONS WASHINGTON, D.C. The positions will remain open until filled. Date posted: 11-25-2009 * ASSISTANT UNITED STATES ATTORNEY UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE DISTRICT OF KANSAS VACANCY ANNOUNCEMENT NUMBER: 10-KS-AUSA-01 Applications must be received by December 18, 2009. Date posted: 11-24-2009 * U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE CRIMINAL DIVISION ASSET FORFEITURE AND MONEY LAUNDERING SECTION DEPUTY CHIEF, GS-905-15 09-CRM-AFMLS-048 All applications must be received by December 22, 2009. Applications received after that date will not be considered. Date posted: 11-24-2009 * ASSISTANT UNITED STATES ATTORNEY UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE WESTERN DISTRICT OF WASHINGTON SEATTLE, WASHINGTON VACANCY ANNOUNCEMENT: 10-WDWA-AUSA-03 (CRMINAL OR CIVIL) 14 MONTH APPOINTMENT NOVEMBER 23, 2009 - DECEMBER 7, 2009 Applications will be accepted through December 7, 2009. Date posted: 11-24-2009 * ASSISTANT UNITED STATES ATTORNEY UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE WESTERN DISTRICT OF WASHINGTON SEATTLE, WASHINGTON VACANCY ANNOUNCEMENT: 10-WDWA-AUSA-02 (CRIMINAL) NOVEMBER 23, 2009 - DECEMBER 7, 2009 Applications will be accepted through December 7, 2009. Date posted: 11-24-2009 * CHIEF, PUBLIC INTEGRITY SECTION, ES-905 PUBLIC INTEGRITY SECTION, CRIMINAL DIVISION, WASHINGTON, DC VACANCY ANNOUNCEMENT NUMBER: 09-SES-CRM-03 Applications must be received by 11:59 EST of the closing date December 27, 2009. Date posted: 11-23-2009 * ASSISTANT UNITED STATES ATTORNEY UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE District of Oregon 10-OR-01 Position is open until filled, but no later than November 27, 2009. Date posted: 11-20-2009 * U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE U.S. TRUSTEE'S OFFICE -- INDIANAPOLIS, INDIANA EXPERIENCED ATTORNEY/GS-12 to GS-15 This position will be open until December 14, 2009. Date posted: 11-20-2009 * ASSISTANT UNITED STATES ATTORNEY UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE DISTRICT OF SOUTH DAKOTA 10-SD-001 Applications must be post marked by November 30, 2009. 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Date posted: 11-18-2009 * ASSISTANT UNITED STATES ATTORNEY UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE NORTHERN DISTRICT OF TEXAS DALLAS, TEXAS NOVEMBER 17, 2009 - DECEMBER 1, 2009 VACANCY ANNOUNCEMENT #09-NDTX-AUSA-D03 Hand-Delivered applications must be received by 5:00pm December 1, 2009. Mailed applications must be postmarked by December 1, 2009. Date posted: 11-18-2009 * ASSISTANT UNITED STATES ATTORNEY UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE DISTRICT OF WYOMING VACANCY ANNOUNCEMENT NUMBER 10-WY-001 Applications must be postmarked or hand-delivered by 5:00 p.m., Mountain Time, on Wednesday, December 30, 2009. Date posted: 11-17-2009 * ASSISTANT ATTORNEY GENERAL OFFICE OF THE ATTORNEY GENERAL OF VIRGINIA AND SPECIAL ASSISTANT UNITED STATES ATTORNEY UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA NORFOLK OFFICE Position is open until filled. In order to ensure consideration of application, it should be received by the Office of the Attorney General by 11/23/2009. Date posted: 11-17-2009 * ASSISTANT UNITED STATES ATTORNEY UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE DISTRICT OF NEVADA ANNOUNCEMENT NUMBER 10-NV-01-AUSA OPENS: 11/10/09 CLOSES: 12/04/09 To receive consideration for this vacancy, resumes must be received by 5:00 p.m. Pacific Standard Time on the closing date of this announcement. Date posted: 11-17-2009 * UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE EASTERN DISTRICT OF CALIFORNIA ASSISTANT UNITED STATES ATTORNEY FRESNO, CALIFORNIA NOVEMBER 16, 2009 10-EDCA-03A Applications should be postmarked no later than Monday, November 30, 2009. Date posted: 11-16-2009 * UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE EASTERN DISTRICT OF CALIFORNIA ASSISTANT UNITED STATES ATTORNEY FRESNO, CALIFORNIA NOVEMBER 16, 2009 10-EDCA-02A Applications should be postmarked no later than Monday, November 30, 2009. Date posted: 11-16-2009 * UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE EASTERN DISTRICT OF CALIFORNIA ASSISTANT UNITED STATES ATTORNEY SACRAMENTO, CALIFORNIA NOVEMBER 16, 2009 10-EDCA-01A Applications should be postmarked no later than Monday, November 30, 2009. Date posted: 11-16-2009 * ASSISTANT UNITED STATES ATTORNEY UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE WESTERN DISTRICT OF NEW YORK 10-WDNY-003 Applications will be accepted until the position is filled, with a first cut-off date of December 4, 2009. Selection may be made from those applications received by December 4, 2009. Date posted: 11-16-2009 * ASSISTANT UNITED STATES ATTORNEYUNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE WESTERN DISTRICT OF NEW YORK 10-WDNY-002 Applications will be accepted until the position is filled, with a first cut-off date of December 4, 2009. Selection may be made from applications received by December 4, 2009. Date posted: 11-16-2009 * U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE EXECUTIVE OFFICE FOR U.S. TRUSTEES WASHINGTON, D.C. (1) EXPERIENCED TRIAL ATTORNEY (CIVIL ENFORCEMENT), GS-13/14/15 ANNOUNCEMENT NO. 09-46-14001 Applications must be postmarked by the closing date of December 07, 2009. Date posted: 11-16-2009 * U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE U.S. TRUSTEE'S OFFICE -- WILMINGTON, DE TRIAL ATTORNEY VACANCY ANNOUNCEMENT NUMBER DELA-ATTY-1101 Applications must be postmarked by the closing date of 12/02/2009 and will be accepted up to five calendar days after the closing date. Date posted: 11-16-2009 * U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE EXECUTIVE OFFICE FOR U.S. TRUSTEES WASHINGTON, D.C. (1) EXPERIENCED TRIAL ATTORNEY, ASSOCIATE GENERAL COUNSEL (GENERAL AND ADMINISTRATIVE LAW), GS-905-15 ANNOUNCEMENT NO. 09-45-14002 Applications must be postmarked by the closing date of December 11, 2009. Date posted: 11-13-2009 * U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE EXECUTIVE OFFICE FOR U.S. TRUSTEES WASHINGTON, D.C. (1) EXPERIENCED TRIAL ATTORNEY, ASSOCIATE GENERAL COUNSEL (CHAPTER 11), GS-905-15 ANNOUNCEMENT NO. 09-45-14003 Applications must be postmarked by the closing date of December 11, 2009. Date posted: 11-13-2009 * UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE EASTERN DISTRICT OF CALIFORNIA ASSISTANT UNITED STATES ATTORNEY SACRAMENTO, CALIFORNIA NOVEMBER 13, 2009 10-EDCA-04A Date posted: 11-13-2009 * UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE EASTERN DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA ASSISTANT UNITED STATES ATTORNEY RALEIGH, NORTH CAROLINA 10-EDNC-AUSA-01 Positions are opened until filled. The initial cut-off date for the receipt of applications is November 18, 2009. Date posted: 11-10-2009 * U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE CIVIL RIGHTS DIVISION, OFFICE OF THE ASSISTANT ATTORNEY GENERAL SPECIAL COUNSEL FOR FAIR LENDING, GS-15 This position is open until December 1, 2009. Date posted: 11-10-2009 * U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE U.S. TRUSTEE PROGRAM -- ALEXANDRIA, VA ASSISTANT UNITED STATES TRUSTEE VACANCY ANNOUNCEMENT #AX-0016 This position will be open until December 4, 2009. Date posted: 11-10-2009 The purpose of this email is to advise potential interested persons of employment opportunities at the Department of Justice. The Department of Justice cannot control further dissemination and/or posting of this information. Such posting and/or dissemination is not an endorsement by the Department of the organization or group disseminating and/or posting the information. -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Jobs mailing list Jobs at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/jobs_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Jobs: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/jobs_nfbnet.org/noel.nightingale%40ed.gov From ukekearuaro at valtdnet.com Wed Dec 2 22:40:50 2009 From: ukekearuaro at valtdnet.com (Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc.) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 15:40:50 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel References: <20091201.125747.428.71023@mailpop05.vgs.untd.com><85DE4073835C47F28015FC74C33ED11D@valtd> <310AF3C9782240EE9AA780A4AD12CEAB@spike> Message-ID: Chuck, I sell cruises amongst other things I do; mostly on Carnival; they have been extremely good with all my passengers whether disabled or not. I have three groups going out in July and August of 2010, narrowly missed a chance to get a group out to Alaska. Sincerely, Olusegun Denver, Colorado From jimi-law at dc.rr.com Wed Dec 2 23:08:54 2009 From: jimi-law at dc.rr.com (James Weisberg) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 15:08:54 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel In-Reply-To: <027601ca7393$4693d280$d3bb7780$@com> References: <20091201.125747.428.71023@mailpop05.vgs.untd.com> <93D426D90E0F47678A7E578E71609E06@screnci.local> <027601ca7393$4693d280$d3bb7780$@com> Message-ID: <003B92E643764A4EBC61041B985FF563@screnci.local> In retrospect it's actually kind of funny although at the time it wasn't. I travel with a Guide Dog. So, as it was discussed in this thread, I made advance arrangements to be seated in the "bulkhead" seat which affords more foot space so the dog can be in a position whereby she is not entirely on my feet nor the feet of the person next to me. No problem. When I get to the airport to check in I get assistance to the gate since the dog has yet to learn to read much to my consternation. When I get to the gate I check in and inform the attendant about the Guide Dog and confirm the placement in the bulkhead seat. At this time I also inquire if the plane is full, sometimes it is not, as in this instance. I inform the attendant they may wish to juggle the passengers around and leave the seat next to me empty so they do not have a paying passenger with a dog on their legs for the entire trip. Never had a problem when put in these terms. I also inform them the window seat is necessary to keep the dog from sticking into the isle. So a window, bulkhead seat with and empty seat next to me is ideal for me, the dog, and the passenger who would otherwise be seated next to me. Get on the plane and in my window bulk head seat which has been assigned to me along with leaving the seat next to me empty which was arranged at the gate. I am traveling with a cat in a container which I have paid to bring on the plane and immediately after taking my seat I place the cat container in the seat next to me to get "situated." As soon as I am seated I am confronted by a stew who says I will have to change seats to another row; non bulkhead. I think it was the cat container b/c the rules I believe are it has to be placed under the seat in front of you and a bulkhead seat has no seat in front of it so . . . On my travels the other way with the cat six months earlier the container was taken and moved to an appropriate place on the plane to the entertainment of the other passengers. Anyways, I politely inform the stew I cannot move to another row and attempt to explain my particular circumstances which make this so. He interrupts me and starts to berate me, and here comes the funny part, he actually says to me, "we have disabled passengers who have paid for these seats (the two next to me)." Keep in mind I am sitting there with a dog in harness that says "Guide Dogs for the Blind." This guy is a real genius. I just tell him after that to het his supervisor. The sup shows and gives me the same routine stating there is an entire empty row in the rear of the plane (where of course only I would be inconvenienced without a place for MY feet). So instead of moving the passengers across the isle in the bulkhead row to the empty row of seats and allowing the other disabled passengers to take the bulk head across the row from me they instead stuck a nice old woman and her daughter next to me (nobody disabled) and this nice woman took it in stride with grace and dealt with a dog on her feet for four plus hours. The humiliation comes from, if not obvious, having my disability pointed out to all on the plane who hadn't already noticed in a demeaning manner (which would not have occurred but for the disability)thereafter followed up by their non accommodating my request to me indicates indifference to the needs of those similarly situated as I when traveling. Seems like the airline I refer is in need of some modification to their training. I think I may help them out toward that end. James W. Weisberg, Esq. Law Office of J. William Weisberg 299 South Patencio Road #3 Palm Springs, California 92262 V: 916.425.1010 F: 916.374.7667 E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com Admitted in Wisconsin Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil Rights Advocacy for Children with Diabetes This message contains information which may be confidential and privileged. Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from your system. This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client relationship nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William Weisberg expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in accordance with this disclaimer. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of WB Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 1:06 PM To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel Well, exactly how wer you marginalized is what the question is I think. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of James Weisberg Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 2:40 PM To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel being marginalized because of something (my case disability)in front of a plane full of passengers is humiliating. No? James W. Weisberg, Esq. Law Office of J. William Weisberg 299 South Patencio Road #3 Palm Springs, California 92262 V: 916.425.1010 F: 916.374.7667 E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com Admitted in Wisconsin Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil Rights Advocacy for Children with Diabetes This message contains information which may be confidential and privileged. Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from your system. This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client relationship nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William Weisberg expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in accordance with this disclaimer. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 11:19 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel In your opinion, how were you humiliated? Steve Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Weisberg" To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 1:01 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > As the original poster of this thread I wanted to point out the reason for > my inquiry was not related to accommodations but rather being publicly > humiliated by air carrier staff (stew) which of course is a common carrier > and that's a big "no no." Since the humiliation was based upon the > presence > of a guide dog the ADA first came to mind. > > > > Finally, Ben you rock dude!! > > > James W. Weisberg, Esq. > > Law Office of J. William Weisberg > > 299 South Patencio Road #3 > > Palm Springs, California 92262 > > V: 916.425.1010 > > F: 916.374.7667 > > E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com > > Admitted in Wisconsin > > Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil Rights > Advocacy for Children with Diabetes > > This message contains information which may be confidential and > privileged. > Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), > you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information > contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, > please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from your > system. > > This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client > relationship > nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William > Weisberg > expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in > accordance with this disclaimer. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of stiehm.law > Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 12:58 PM > To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org > Cc: blindlaw at nfbnet.org > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > > In addition to the airlines, I have recently become curious as to what if > any, accommodations for the TSA makes with respect to disabled people > going through security and being picked up by somebody at the gate at the > terminal at the other end of the flight. For example, do they permit a > blind person who is traveling alone to be accompanied through security, > down to the airline check-in counter at the gate by a non-ticketed > person. > > At the other end, is a non-ticketed person permitted through security to > go to the gate to meet a blind person flying alone? > > If TSA does not provide for such accommodations do the airlines take it > on themselves to provide this service? > > Has anybody had any experience in this regard? Is the accommodation, if > any, voluntary on the part of the TSA and/or the airlines or is it > governed by regulation? > > Patrick H. Stiehm > Stiehm Law Office > Alexandria, VA 22309 > 703-360-1089 (Voice) > 703-935-8266 (Fax) > > > > Tue, 1 Dec 2009 11:30:37 -0800 "Russell J. Thomas, Jr." > writes: >> Off the top of my head, and without any new research, the only case >> I >> remember is a case challenging the accessibility of airline websites >> with >> respect to attempting to make reservations and ordering tickets on >> line. >> >> I also think that there are regulations on the subject, especially >> dealing >> with how disabled passengers are to be treated (or perhaps on some >> occasions >> mistreated). >> >> I often thought it would be a good idea for the NFB to put together >> a short >> guide book concerning travel, including air travel, based upon >> experiences >> of NFB members, to be used as a reference guide for blind people who >> use air >> travel. Certainly things have changed since 911--some changes for >> the good, >> and others not so good. >> >> >> >> >> Respectfully, >> >> >> >> Russell J. Thomas, Jr. >> >> THOMAS & ASSOCIATES >> >> www.californiaemployersattorneys.com >> >> >> >> Orange County Office >> >> 4121 Westerly Place, Suite 101 >> >> Newport Beach, California 92660 >> >> T: (949) 752-0101 >> >> F: (949) 257-4756 >> >> M: (949) 466-7238 >> >> >> >> Beverly Hills Office >> >> 9107 Wilshire Boulevard, Suite 450 >> >> Beverly Hills, California 90210 >> >> T: (310) 461-3561 >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf Of James Weisberg >> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 10:01 AM >> To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' >> Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel >> >> Hi Folks: >> >> >> >> Anyone on the lists have experience or knowledge regarding the ADA >> and suits >> against air carriers for violations available for quick consult? >> Thanks. >> >> >> >> James W. Weisberg, Esq. >> >> Law Office of J. William Weisberg >> >> 299 South Patencio Road #3 >> >> Palm Springs, California 92262 >> >> V: 916.425.1010 >> >> F: 916.374.7667 >> >> E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com >> >> Admitted in Wisconsin >> >> Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil >> Rights >> Advocacy for Children with Diabetes >> >> This message contains information which may be confidential and >> privileged. >> Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the >> addressee), >> you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any >> information >> contained in this message. If you have received this message in >> error, >> please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from >> your >> system. >> >> This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client >> relationship >> nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William >> Weisberg >> expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information >> in >> accordance with this disclaimer. >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for >> blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rthomas%40rjtla > wfi >> rm.com >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stiehm.law%40ju > no.com >> > > ____________________________________________________________ > Hotel > Hotel pics, info and virtual tours. Click here to book a hotel online. > http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/c?cp=ewJKbyZ61QloDsW_i_oQ_wAAJ1BdRO > y9vkzpR6E_Fj7jZTbnAAYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAATRAAAAAA= > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jimi-law%40dc.rr.c > om > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4652 (20091201) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4652 (20091201) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4653 (20091201) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4655 (20091202) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4655 (20091202) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in sightbb.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.426 / Virus Database: 270.14.90/2540 - Release Date: 12/02/09 07:33:00 _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jimi-law%40dc.rr.c om __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4656 (20091202) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4656 (20091202) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4656 (20091202) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniverse08%40gma il.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jimi-law%40dc.rr.c om __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4656 (20091202) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4656 (20091202) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4656 (20091202) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com From stevep.deeley at insightbb.com Wed Dec 2 23:09:22 2009 From: stevep.deeley at insightbb.com (Steve P. Deeley) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 18:09:22 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel In-Reply-To: <93D426D90E0F47678A7E578E71609E06@screnci.local> References: <20091201.125747.428.71023@mailpop05.vgs.untd.com> <93D426D90E0F47678A7E578E71609E06@screnci.local> Message-ID: How, in your opinion were your marginalized. I don't know your definition of marginalized. Give us a little of the vignette that took place in front of the passengers. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Weisberg" To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 3:40 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > being marginalized because of something (my case disability)in front of a > plane full of passengers is humiliating. No? > > James W. Weisberg, Esq. > > Law Office of J. William Weisberg > > 299 South Patencio Road #3 > > Palm Springs, California 92262 > > V: 916.425.1010 > > F: 916.374.7667 > > E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com > > Admitted in Wisconsin > > Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil Rights > Advocacy for Children with Diabetes > > This message contains information which may be confidential and > privileged. > Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), > you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information > contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, > please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from your > system. > > This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client > relationship > nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William > Weisberg > expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in > accordance with this disclaimer. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 11:19 AM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > > In your opinion, how were you humiliated? > Steve > Steve > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "James Weisberg" > To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 1:01 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > > >> As the original poster of this thread I wanted to point out the reason >> for >> my inquiry was not related to accommodations but rather being publicly >> humiliated by air carrier staff (stew) which of course is a common >> carrier >> and that's a big "no no." Since the humiliation was based upon the >> presence >> of a guide dog the ADA first came to mind. >> >> >> >> Finally, Ben you rock dude!! >> >> >> James W. Weisberg, Esq. >> >> Law Office of J. William Weisberg >> >> 299 South Patencio Road #3 >> >> Palm Springs, California 92262 >> >> V: 916.425.1010 >> >> F: 916.374.7667 >> >> E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com >> >> Admitted in Wisconsin >> >> Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil Rights >> Advocacy for Children with Diabetes >> >> This message contains information which may be confidential and >> privileged. >> Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the >> addressee), >> you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any >> information >> contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, >> please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from your >> system. >> >> This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client >> relationship >> nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William >> Weisberg >> expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in >> accordance with this disclaimer. >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf Of stiehm.law >> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 12:58 PM >> To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> Cc: blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel >> >> In addition to the airlines, I have recently become curious as to what if >> any, accommodations for the TSA makes with respect to disabled people >> going through security and being picked up by somebody at the gate at the >> terminal at the other end of the flight. For example, do they permit a >> blind person who is traveling alone to be accompanied through security, >> down to the airline check-in counter at the gate by a non-ticketed >> person. >> >> At the other end, is a non-ticketed person permitted through security to >> go to the gate to meet a blind person flying alone? >> >> If TSA does not provide for such accommodations do the airlines take it >> on themselves to provide this service? >> >> Has anybody had any experience in this regard? Is the accommodation, if >> any, voluntary on the part of the TSA and/or the airlines or is it >> governed by regulation? >> >> Patrick H. Stiehm >> Stiehm Law Office >> Alexandria, VA 22309 >> 703-360-1089 (Voice) >> 703-935-8266 (Fax) >> >> >> >> Tue, 1 Dec 2009 11:30:37 -0800 "Russell J. Thomas, Jr." >> writes: >>> Off the top of my head, and without any new research, the only case >>> I >>> remember is a case challenging the accessibility of airline websites >>> with >>> respect to attempting to make reservations and ordering tickets on >>> line. >>> >>> I also think that there are regulations on the subject, especially >>> dealing >>> with how disabled passengers are to be treated (or perhaps on some >>> occasions >>> mistreated). >>> >>> I often thought it would be a good idea for the NFB to put together >>> a short >>> guide book concerning travel, including air travel, based upon >>> experiences >>> of NFB members, to be used as a reference guide for blind people who >>> use air >>> travel. Certainly things have changed since 911--some changes for >>> the good, >>> and others not so good. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Respectfully, >>> >>> >>> >>> Russell J. Thomas, Jr. >>> >>> THOMAS & ASSOCIATES >>> >>> www.californiaemployersattorneys.com >>> >>> >>> >>> Orange County Office >>> >>> 4121 Westerly Place, Suite 101 >>> >>> Newport Beach, California 92660 >>> >>> T: (949) 752-0101 >>> >>> F: (949) 257-4756 >>> >>> M: (949) 466-7238 >>> >>> >>> >>> Beverly Hills Office >>> >>> 9107 Wilshire Boulevard, Suite 450 >>> >>> Beverly Hills, California 90210 >>> >>> T: (310) 461-3561 >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>> Behalf Of James Weisberg >>> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 10:01 AM >>> To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' >>> Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel >>> >>> Hi Folks: >>> >>> >>> >>> Anyone on the lists have experience or knowledge regarding the ADA >>> and suits >>> against air carriers for violations available for quick consult? >>> Thanks. >>> >>> >>> >>> James W. Weisberg, Esq. >>> >>> Law Office of J. William Weisberg >>> >>> 299 South Patencio Road #3 >>> >>> Palm Springs, California 92262 >>> >>> V: 916.425.1010 >>> >>> F: 916.374.7667 >>> >>> E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com >>> >>> Admitted in Wisconsin >>> >>> Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil >>> Rights >>> Advocacy for Children with Diabetes >>> >>> This message contains information which may be confidential and >>> privileged. >>> Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the >>> addressee), >>> you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any >>> information >>> contained in this message. If you have received this message in >>> error, >>> please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from >>> your >>> system. >>> >>> This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client >>> relationship >>> nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William >>> Weisberg >>> expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information >>> in >>> accordance with this disclaimer. >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> blindlaw: >>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rthomas%40rjtla >> wfi >>> rm.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for blindlaw: >>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stiehm.law%40ju >> no.com >>> >> >> ____________________________________________________________ >> Hotel >> Hotel pics, info and virtual tours. Click here to book a hotel online. >> > http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/c?cp=ewJKbyZ61QloDsW_i_oQ_wAAJ1BdRO >> y9vkzpR6E_Fj7jZTbnAAYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAATRAAAAAA= >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jimi-law%40dc.rr.c >> om >> >> __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus >> signature >> database 4652 (20091201) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus >> signature >> database 4652 (20091201) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus >> signature >> database 4653 (20091201) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus >> signature >> database 4655 (20091202) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus >> signature >> database 4655 (20091202) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in > sightbb.com > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.426 / Virus Database: 270.14.90/2540 - Release Date: 12/02/09 > 07:33:00 > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jimi-law%40dc.rr.c > om > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4656 (20091202) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4656 (20091202) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4656 (20091202) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.426 / Virus Database: 270.14.91/2541 - Release Date: 12/02/09 19:43:00 From mruniverse08 at gmail.com Wed Dec 2 23:14:17 2009 From: mruniverse08 at gmail.com (WB) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 17:14:17 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel In-Reply-To: <003B92E643764A4EBC61041B985FF563@screnci.local> References: <20091201.125747.428.71023@mailpop05.vgs.untd.com> <93D426D90E0F47678A7E578E71609E06@screnci.local> <027601ca7393$4693d280$d3bb7780$@com> <003B92E643764A4EBC61041B985FF563@screnci.local> Message-ID: <02cc01ca73a5$2c438120$84ca8360$@com> After reading this detail, the earlier e-mails you sent now make sense to me. That's very sad that those attendants were not in line with whatever training they received. I'm sure they had to have had some and from what you say, it doesn't seem like they put any of it into practice. Has the airline powers that be turned their noses up to your requests for information on their training program or requests for some type of being made whole? I'm curious as I've never experienced anything to the level of which you speak. Thanks for sharing. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of James Weisberg Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 5:09 PM To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel In retrospect it's actually kind of funny although at the time it wasn't. I travel with a Guide Dog. So, as it was discussed in this thread, I made advance arrangements to be seated in the "bulkhead" seat which affords more foot space so the dog can be in a position whereby she is not entirely on my feet nor the feet of the person next to me. No problem. When I get to the airport to check in I get assistance to the gate since the dog has yet to learn to read much to my consternation. When I get to the gate I check in and inform the attendant about the Guide Dog and confirm the placement in the bulkhead seat. At this time I also inquire if the plane is full, sometimes it is not, as in this instance. I inform the attendant they may wish to juggle the passengers around and leave the seat next to me empty so they do not have a paying passenger with a dog on their legs for the entire trip. Never had a problem when put in these terms. I also inform them the window seat is necessary to keep the dog from sticking into the isle. So a window, bulkhead seat with and empty seat next to me is ideal for me, the dog, and the passenger who would otherwise be seated next to me. Get on the plane and in my window bulk head seat which has been assigned to me along with leaving the seat next to me empty which was arranged at the gate. I am traveling with a cat in a container which I have paid to bring on the plane and immediately after taking my seat I place the cat container in the seat next to me to get "situated." As soon as I am seated I am confronted by a stew who says I will have to change seats to another row; non bulkhead. I think it was the cat container b/c the rules I believe are it has to be placed under the seat in front of you and a bulkhead seat has no seat in front of it so . . . On my travels the other way with the cat six months earlier the container was taken and moved to an appropriate place on the plane to the entertainment of the other passengers. Anyways, I politely inform the stew I cannot move to another row and attempt to explain my particular circumstances which make this so. He interrupts me and starts to berate me, and here comes the funny part, he actually says to me, "we have disabled passengers who have paid for these seats (the two next to me)." Keep in mind I am sitting there with a dog in harness that says "Guide Dogs for the Blind." This guy is a real genius. I just tell him after that to het his supervisor. The sup shows and gives me the same routine stating there is an entire empty row in the rear of the plane (where of course only I would be inconvenienced without a place for MY feet). So instead of moving the passengers across the isle in the bulkhead row to the empty row of seats and allowing the other disabled passengers to take the bulk head across the row from me they instead stuck a nice old woman and her daughter next to me (nobody disabled) and this nice woman took it in stride with grace and dealt with a dog on her feet for four plus hours. The humiliation comes from, if not obvious, having my disability pointed out to all on the plane who hadn't already noticed in a demeaning manner (which would not have occurred but for the disability)thereafter followed up by their non accommodating my request to me indicates indifference to the needs of those similarly situated as I when traveling. Seems like the airline I refer is in need of some modification to their training. I think I may help them out toward that end. James W. Weisberg, Esq. Law Office of J. William Weisberg 299 South Patencio Road #3 Palm Springs, California 92262 V: 916.425.1010 F: 916.374.7667 E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com Admitted in Wisconsin Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil Rights Advocacy for Children with Diabetes This message contains information which may be confidential and privileged. Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from your system. This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client relationship nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William Weisberg expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in accordance with this disclaimer. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of WB Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 1:06 PM To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel Well, exactly how wer you marginalized is what the question is I think. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of James Weisberg Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 2:40 PM To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel being marginalized because of something (my case disability)in front of a plane full of passengers is humiliating. No? James W. Weisberg, Esq. Law Office of J. William Weisberg 299 South Patencio Road #3 Palm Springs, California 92262 V: 916.425.1010 F: 916.374.7667 E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com Admitted in Wisconsin Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil Rights Advocacy for Children with Diabetes This message contains information which may be confidential and privileged. Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from your system. This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client relationship nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William Weisberg expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in accordance with this disclaimer. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 11:19 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel In your opinion, how were you humiliated? Steve Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Weisberg" To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 1:01 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > As the original poster of this thread I wanted to point out the reason for > my inquiry was not related to accommodations but rather being publicly > humiliated by air carrier staff (stew) which of course is a common carrier > and that's a big "no no." Since the humiliation was based upon the > presence > of a guide dog the ADA first came to mind. > > > > Finally, Ben you rock dude!! > > > James W. Weisberg, Esq. > > Law Office of J. William Weisberg > > 299 South Patencio Road #3 > > Palm Springs, California 92262 > > V: 916.425.1010 > > F: 916.374.7667 > > E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com > > Admitted in Wisconsin > > Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil Rights > Advocacy for Children with Diabetes > > This message contains information which may be confidential and > privileged. > Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), > you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information > contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, > please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from your > system. > > This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client > relationship > nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William > Weisberg > expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in > accordance with this disclaimer. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of stiehm.law > Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 12:58 PM > To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org > Cc: blindlaw at nfbnet.org > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > > In addition to the airlines, I have recently become curious as to what if > any, accommodations for the TSA makes with respect to disabled people > going through security and being picked up by somebody at the gate at the > terminal at the other end of the flight. For example, do they permit a > blind person who is traveling alone to be accompanied through security, > down to the airline check-in counter at the gate by a non-ticketed > person. > > At the other end, is a non-ticketed person permitted through security to > go to the gate to meet a blind person flying alone? > > If TSA does not provide for such accommodations do the airlines take it > on themselves to provide this service? > > Has anybody had any experience in this regard? Is the accommodation, if > any, voluntary on the part of the TSA and/or the airlines or is it > governed by regulation? > > Patrick H. Stiehm > Stiehm Law Office > Alexandria, VA 22309 > 703-360-1089 (Voice) > 703-935-8266 (Fax) > > > > Tue, 1 Dec 2009 11:30:37 -0800 "Russell J. Thomas, Jr." > writes: >> Off the top of my head, and without any new research, the only case >> I >> remember is a case challenging the accessibility of airline websites >> with >> respect to attempting to make reservations and ordering tickets on >> line. >> >> I also think that there are regulations on the subject, especially >> dealing >> with how disabled passengers are to be treated (or perhaps on some >> occasions >> mistreated). >> >> I often thought it would be a good idea for the NFB to put together >> a short >> guide book concerning travel, including air travel, based upon >> experiences >> of NFB members, to be used as a reference guide for blind people who >> use air >> travel. Certainly things have changed since 911--some changes for >> the good, >> and others not so good. >> >> >> >> >> Respectfully, >> >> >> >> Russell J. Thomas, Jr. >> >> THOMAS & ASSOCIATES >> >> www.californiaemployersattorneys.com >> >> >> >> Orange County Office >> >> 4121 Westerly Place, Suite 101 >> >> Newport Beach, California 92660 >> >> T: (949) 752-0101 >> >> F: (949) 257-4756 >> >> M: (949) 466-7238 >> >> >> >> Beverly Hills Office >> >> 9107 Wilshire Boulevard, Suite 450 >> >> Beverly Hills, California 90210 >> >> T: (310) 461-3561 >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf Of James Weisberg >> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 10:01 AM >> To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' >> Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel >> >> Hi Folks: >> >> >> >> Anyone on the lists have experience or knowledge regarding the ADA >> and suits >> against air carriers for violations available for quick consult? >> Thanks. >> >> >> >> James W. Weisberg, Esq. >> >> Law Office of J. William Weisberg >> >> 299 South Patencio Road #3 >> >> Palm Springs, California 92262 >> >> V: 916.425.1010 >> >> F: 916.374.7667 >> >> E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com >> >> Admitted in Wisconsin >> >> Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil >> Rights >> Advocacy for Children with Diabetes >> >> This message contains information which may be confidential and >> privileged. >> Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the >> addressee), >> you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any >> information >> contained in this message. If you have received this message in >> error, >> please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from >> your >> system. >> >> This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client >> relationship >> nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William >> Weisberg >> expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information >> in >> accordance with this disclaimer. >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for >> blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rthomas%40rjtla > wfi >> rm.com >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stiehm.law%40ju > no.com >> > > ____________________________________________________________ > Hotel > Hotel pics, info and virtual tours. Click here to book a hotel online. > http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/c?cp=ewJKbyZ61QloDsW_i_oQ_wAAJ1BdRO > y9vkzpR6E_Fj7jZTbnAAYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAATRAAAAAA= > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jimi-law%40dc.rr.c > om > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4652 (20091201) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4652 (20091201) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4653 (20091201) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4655 (20091202) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4655 (20091202) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in sightbb.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.426 / Virus Database: 270.14.90/2540 - Release Date: 12/02/09 07:33:00 _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jimi-law%40dc.rr.c om __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4656 (20091202) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4656 (20091202) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4656 (20091202) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniverse08%40gma il.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jimi-law%40dc.rr.c om __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4656 (20091202) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4656 (20091202) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4656 (20091202) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniverse08%40gma il.com From stevep.deeley at insightbb.com Wed Dec 2 23:20:05 2009 From: stevep.deeley at insightbb.com (Steve P. Deeley) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 18:20:05 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel In-Reply-To: <027601ca7393$4693d280$d3bb7780$@com> References: <20091201.125747.428.71023@mailpop05.vgs.untd.com> <93D426D90E0F47678A7E578E71609E06@screnci.local> <027601ca7393$4693d280$d3bb7780$@com> Message-ID: <343B81A82AB34AD19538ADDD33AA3F65@StevePC> Exactly!!! ----- Original Message ----- From: "WB" To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 4:06 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > Well, exactly how wer you marginalized is what the question is I think. > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of James Weisberg > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 2:40 PM > To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > > being marginalized because of something (my case disability)in front of a > plane full of passengers is humiliating. No? > > James W. Weisberg, Esq. > > Law Office of J. William Weisberg > > 299 South Patencio Road #3 > > Palm Springs, California 92262 > > V: 916.425.1010 > > F: 916.374.7667 > > E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com > > Admitted in Wisconsin > > Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil Rights > Advocacy for Children with Diabetes > > This message contains information which may be confidential and > privileged. > Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), > you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information > contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, > please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from your > system. > > This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client > relationship > nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William > Weisberg > expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in > accordance with this disclaimer. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 11:19 AM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > > In your opinion, how were you humiliated? > Steve > Steve > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "James Weisberg" > To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 1:01 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > > >> As the original poster of this thread I wanted to point out the reason >> for >> my inquiry was not related to accommodations but rather being publicly >> humiliated by air carrier staff (stew) which of course is a common >> carrier >> and that's a big "no no." Since the humiliation was based upon the >> presence >> of a guide dog the ADA first came to mind. >> >> >> >> Finally, Ben you rock dude!! >> >> >> James W. Weisberg, Esq. >> >> Law Office of J. William Weisberg >> >> 299 South Patencio Road #3 >> >> Palm Springs, California 92262 >> >> V: 916.425.1010 >> >> F: 916.374.7667 >> >> E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com >> >> Admitted in Wisconsin >> >> Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil Rights >> Advocacy for Children with Diabetes >> >> This message contains information which may be confidential and >> privileged. >> Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the >> addressee), >> you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any >> information >> contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, >> please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from your >> system. >> >> This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client >> relationship >> nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William >> Weisberg >> expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in >> accordance with this disclaimer. >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf Of stiehm.law >> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 12:58 PM >> To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> Cc: blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel >> >> In addition to the airlines, I have recently become curious as to what if >> any, accommodations for the TSA makes with respect to disabled people >> going through security and being picked up by somebody at the gate at the >> terminal at the other end of the flight. For example, do they permit a >> blind person who is traveling alone to be accompanied through security, >> down to the airline check-in counter at the gate by a non-ticketed >> person. >> >> At the other end, is a non-ticketed person permitted through security to >> go to the gate to meet a blind person flying alone? >> >> If TSA does not provide for such accommodations do the airlines take it >> on themselves to provide this service? >> >> Has anybody had any experience in this regard? Is the accommodation, if >> any, voluntary on the part of the TSA and/or the airlines or is it >> governed by regulation? >> >> Patrick H. Stiehm >> Stiehm Law Office >> Alexandria, VA 22309 >> 703-360-1089 (Voice) >> 703-935-8266 (Fax) >> >> >> >> Tue, 1 Dec 2009 11:30:37 -0800 "Russell J. Thomas, Jr." >> writes: >>> Off the top of my head, and without any new research, the only case >>> I >>> remember is a case challenging the accessibility of airline websites >>> with >>> respect to attempting to make reservations and ordering tickets on >>> line. >>> >>> I also think that there are regulations on the subject, especially >>> dealing >>> with how disabled passengers are to be treated (or perhaps on some >>> occasions >>> mistreated). >>> >>> I often thought it would be a good idea for the NFB to put together >>> a short >>> guide book concerning travel, including air travel, based upon >>> experiences >>> of NFB members, to be used as a reference guide for blind people who >>> use air >>> travel. Certainly things have changed since 911--some changes for >>> the good, >>> and others not so good. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Respectfully, >>> >>> >>> >>> Russell J. Thomas, Jr. >>> >>> THOMAS & ASSOCIATES >>> >>> www.californiaemployersattorneys.com >>> >>> >>> >>> Orange County Office >>> >>> 4121 Westerly Place, Suite 101 >>> >>> Newport Beach, California 92660 >>> >>> T: (949) 752-0101 >>> >>> F: (949) 257-4756 >>> >>> M: (949) 466-7238 >>> >>> >>> >>> Beverly Hills Office >>> >>> 9107 Wilshire Boulevard, Suite 450 >>> >>> Beverly Hills, California 90210 >>> >>> T: (310) 461-3561 >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>> Behalf Of James Weisberg >>> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 10:01 AM >>> To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' >>> Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel >>> >>> Hi Folks: >>> >>> >>> >>> Anyone on the lists have experience or knowledge regarding the ADA >>> and suits >>> against air carriers for violations available for quick consult? >>> Thanks. >>> >>> >>> >>> James W. Weisberg, Esq. >>> >>> Law Office of J. William Weisberg >>> >>> 299 South Patencio Road #3 >>> >>> Palm Springs, California 92262 >>> >>> V: 916.425.1010 >>> >>> F: 916.374.7667 >>> >>> E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com >>> >>> Admitted in Wisconsin >>> >>> Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil >>> Rights >>> Advocacy for Children with Diabetes >>> >>> This message contains information which may be confidential and >>> privileged. >>> Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the >>> addressee), >>> you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any >>> information >>> contained in this message. If you have received this message in >>> error, >>> please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from >>> your >>> system. >>> >>> This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client >>> relationship >>> nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William >>> Weisberg >>> expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information >>> in >>> accordance with this disclaimer. >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> blindlaw: >>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rthomas%40rjtla >> wfi >>> rm.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for blindlaw: >>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stiehm.law%40ju >> no.com >>> >> >> ____________________________________________________________ >> Hotel >> Hotel pics, info and virtual tours. Click here to book a hotel online. >> > http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/c?cp=ewJKbyZ61QloDsW_i_oQ_wAAJ1BdRO >> y9vkzpR6E_Fj7jZTbnAAYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAATRAAAAAA= >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jimi-law%40dc.rr.c >> om >> >> __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus >> signature >> database 4652 (20091201) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus >> signature >> database 4652 (20091201) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus >> signature >> database 4653 (20091201) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus >> signature >> database 4655 (20091202) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus >> signature >> database 4655 (20091202) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in > sightbb.com > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.426 / Virus Database: 270.14.90/2540 - Release Date: 12/02/09 > 07:33:00 > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jimi-law%40dc.rr.c > om > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4656 (20091202) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4656 (20091202) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4656 (20091202) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniverse08%40gma > il.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.426 / Virus Database: 270.14.91/2541 - Release Date: 12/02/09 19:43:00 From stevep.deeley at insightbb.com Thu Dec 3 00:19:03 2009 From: stevep.deeley at insightbb.com (Steve P. Deeley) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 19:19:03 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel In-Reply-To: <003B92E643764A4EBC61041B985FF563@screnci.local> References: <20091201.125747.428.71023@mailpop05.vgs.untd.com> <93D426D90E0F47678A7E578E71609E06@screnci.local> <027601ca7393$4693d280$d3bb7780$@com> <003B92E643764A4EBC61041B985FF563@screnci.local> Message-ID: <5C3F1B998E56410090FAE5D9E278050A@StevePC> I think you just get some thicker skin and go on with your life. A bad break but not worth monetary damages. Steve----- Original Message ----- From: "James Weisberg" To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 6:08 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > In retrospect it's actually kind of funny although at the time it wasn't. > I > travel with a Guide Dog. So, as it was discussed in this thread, I made > advance arrangements to be seated in the "bulkhead" seat which affords > more > foot space so the dog can be in a position whereby she is not entirely on > my > feet nor the feet of the person next to me. No problem. When I get to > the > airport to check in I get assistance to the gate since the dog has yet to > learn to read much to my consternation. When I get to the gate I check in > and inform the attendant about the Guide Dog and confirm the placement in > the bulkhead seat. At this time I also inquire if the plane is full, > sometimes it is not, as in this instance. I inform the attendant they may > wish to juggle the passengers around and leave the seat next to me empty > so > they do not have a paying passenger with a dog on their legs for the > entire > trip. Never had a problem when put in these terms. I also inform them > the > window seat is necessary to keep the dog from sticking into the isle. So > a > window, bulkhead seat with and empty seat next to me is ideal for me, the > dog, and the passenger who would otherwise be seated next to me. > > Get on the plane and in my window bulk head seat which has been assigned > to > me along with leaving the seat next to me empty which was arranged at the > gate. I am traveling with a cat in a container which I have paid to bring > on the plane and immediately after taking my seat I place the cat > container > in the seat next to me to get "situated." As soon as I am seated I am > confronted by a stew who says I will have to change seats to another row; > non bulkhead. I think it was the cat container b/c the rules I believe > are > it has to be placed under the seat in front of you and a bulkhead seat has > no seat in front of it so . . . On my travels the other way with the cat > six months earlier the container was taken and moved to an appropriate > place > on the plane to the entertainment of the other passengers. Anyways, I > politely inform the stew I cannot move to another row and attempt to > explain > my particular circumstances which make this so. He interrupts me and > starts > to berate me, and here comes the funny part, he actually says to me, "we > have disabled passengers who have paid for these seats (the two next to > me)." Keep in mind I am sitting there with a dog in harness that says > "Guide Dogs for the Blind." This guy is a real genius. I just tell him > after that to het his supervisor. The sup shows and gives me the same > routine stating there is an entire empty row in the rear of the plane > (where > of course only I would be inconvenienced without a place for MY feet). So > instead of moving the passengers across the isle in the bulkhead row to > the > empty row of seats and allowing the other disabled passengers to take the > bulk head across the row from me they instead stuck a nice old woman and > her > daughter next to me (nobody disabled) and this nice woman took it in > stride > with grace and dealt with a dog on her feet for four plus hours. > > The humiliation comes from, if not obvious, having my disability pointed > out > to all on the plane who hadn't already noticed in a demeaning manner > (which > would not have occurred but for the disability)thereafter followed up by > their non accommodating my request to me indicates indifference to the > needs > of those similarly situated as I when traveling. Seems like the airline I > refer is in need of some modification to their training. I think I may > help > them out toward that end. > > James W. Weisberg, Esq. > > Law Office of J. William Weisberg > > 299 South Patencio Road #3 > > Palm Springs, California 92262 > > V: 916.425.1010 > > F: 916.374.7667 > > E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com > > Admitted in Wisconsin > > Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil Rights > Advocacy for Children with Diabetes > > This message contains information which may be confidential and > privileged. > Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), > you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information > contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, > please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from your > system. > > This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client > relationship > nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William > Weisberg > expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in > accordance with this disclaimer. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of WB > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 1:06 PM > To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > > Well, exactly how wer you marginalized is what the question is I think. > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of James Weisberg > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 2:40 PM > To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > > being marginalized because of something (my case disability)in front of a > plane full of passengers is humiliating. No? > > James W. Weisberg, Esq. > > Law Office of J. William Weisberg > > 299 South Patencio Road #3 > > Palm Springs, California 92262 > > V: 916.425.1010 > > F: 916.374.7667 > > E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com > > Admitted in Wisconsin > > Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil Rights > Advocacy for Children with Diabetes > > This message contains information which may be confidential and > privileged. > Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), > you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information > contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, > please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from your > system. > > This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client > relationship > nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William > Weisberg > expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in > accordance with this disclaimer. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 11:19 AM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > > In your opinion, how were you humiliated? > Steve > Steve > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "James Weisberg" > To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 1:01 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > > >> As the original poster of this thread I wanted to point out the reason >> for >> my inquiry was not related to accommodations but rather being publicly >> humiliated by air carrier staff (stew) which of course is a common >> carrier >> and that's a big "no no." Since the humiliation was based upon the >> presence >> of a guide dog the ADA first came to mind. >> >> >> >> Finally, Ben you rock dude!! >> >> >> James W. Weisberg, Esq. >> >> Law Office of J. William Weisberg >> >> 299 South Patencio Road #3 >> >> Palm Springs, California 92262 >> >> V: 916.425.1010 >> >> F: 916.374.7667 >> >> E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com >> >> Admitted in Wisconsin >> >> Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil Rights >> Advocacy for Children with Diabetes >> >> This message contains information which may be confidential and >> privileged. >> Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the >> addressee), >> you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any >> information >> contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, >> please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from your >> system. >> >> This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client >> relationship >> nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William >> Weisberg >> expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in >> accordance with this disclaimer. >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf Of stiehm.law >> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 12:58 PM >> To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> Cc: blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel >> >> In addition to the airlines, I have recently become curious as to what if >> any, accommodations for the TSA makes with respect to disabled people >> going through security and being picked up by somebody at the gate at the >> terminal at the other end of the flight. For example, do they permit a >> blind person who is traveling alone to be accompanied through security, >> down to the airline check-in counter at the gate by a non-ticketed >> person. >> >> At the other end, is a non-ticketed person permitted through security to >> go to the gate to meet a blind person flying alone? >> >> If TSA does not provide for such accommodations do the airlines take it >> on themselves to provide this service? >> >> Has anybody had any experience in this regard? Is the accommodation, if >> any, voluntary on the part of the TSA and/or the airlines or is it >> governed by regulation? >> >> Patrick H. Stiehm >> Stiehm Law Office >> Alexandria, VA 22309 >> 703-360-1089 (Voice) >> 703-935-8266 (Fax) >> >> >> >> Tue, 1 Dec 2009 11:30:37 -0800 "Russell J. Thomas, Jr." >> writes: >>> Off the top of my head, and without any new research, the only case >>> I >>> remember is a case challenging the accessibility of airline websites >>> with >>> respect to attempting to make reservations and ordering tickets on >>> line. >>> >>> I also think that there are regulations on the subject, especially >>> dealing >>> with how disabled passengers are to be treated (or perhaps on some >>> occasions >>> mistreated). >>> >>> I often thought it would be a good idea for the NFB to put together >>> a short >>> guide book concerning travel, including air travel, based upon >>> experiences >>> of NFB members, to be used as a reference guide for blind people who >>> use air >>> travel. Certainly things have changed since 911--some changes for >>> the good, >>> and others not so good. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Respectfully, >>> >>> >>> >>> Russell J. Thomas, Jr. >>> >>> THOMAS & ASSOCIATES >>> >>> www.californiaemployersattorneys.com >>> >>> >>> >>> Orange County Office >>> >>> 4121 Westerly Place, Suite 101 >>> >>> Newport Beach, California 92660 >>> >>> T: (949) 752-0101 >>> >>> F: (949) 257-4756 >>> >>> M: (949) 466-7238 >>> >>> >>> >>> Beverly Hills Office >>> >>> 9107 Wilshire Boulevard, Suite 450 >>> >>> Beverly Hills, California 90210 >>> >>> T: (310) 461-3561 >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>> Behalf Of James Weisberg >>> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 10:01 AM >>> To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' >>> Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel >>> >>> Hi Folks: >>> >>> >>> >>> Anyone on the lists have experience or knowledge regarding the ADA >>> and suits >>> against air carriers for violations available for quick consult? >>> Thanks. >>> >>> >>> >>> James W. Weisberg, Esq. >>> >>> Law Office of J. William Weisberg >>> >>> 299 South Patencio Road #3 >>> >>> Palm Springs, California 92262 >>> >>> V: 916.425.1010 >>> >>> F: 916.374.7667 >>> >>> E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com >>> >>> Admitted in Wisconsin >>> >>> Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil >>> Rights >>> Advocacy for Children with Diabetes >>> >>> This message contains information which may be confidential and >>> privileged. >>> Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the >>> addressee), >>> you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any >>> information >>> contained in this message. If you have received this message in >>> error, >>> please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from >>> your >>> system. >>> >>> This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client >>> relationship >>> nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William >>> Weisberg >>> expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information >>> in >>> accordance with this disclaimer. >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> blindlaw: >>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rthomas%40rjtla >> wfi >>> rm.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for blindlaw: >>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stiehm.law%40ju >> no.com >>> >> >> ____________________________________________________________ >> Hotel >> Hotel pics, info and virtual tours. Click here to book a hotel online. >> > http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/c?cp=ewJKbyZ61QloDsW_i_oQ_wAAJ1BdRO >> y9vkzpR6E_Fj7jZTbnAAYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAATRAAAAAA= >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jimi-law%40dc.rr.c >> om >> >> __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus >> signature >> database 4652 (20091201) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus >> signature >> database 4652 (20091201) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus >> signature >> database 4653 (20091201) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus >> signature >> database 4655 (20091202) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus >> signature >> database 4655 (20091202) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in > sightbb.com > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.426 / Virus Database: 270.14.90/2540 - Release Date: 12/02/09 > 07:33:00 > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jimi-law%40dc.rr.c > om > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4656 (20091202) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4656 (20091202) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4656 (20091202) __________ > >The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniverse08%40gma > il.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jimi-law%40dc.rr.c > om > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4656 (20091202) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4656 (20091202) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4656 (20091202) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.426 / Virus Database: 270.14.91/2541 - Release Date: 12/02/09 19:43:00 From rthomas at rjtlawfirm.com Thu Dec 3 00:25:08 2009 From: rthomas at rjtlawfirm.com (Russell J. Thomas, Jr.) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 16:25:08 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel In-Reply-To: <003B92E643764A4EBC61041B985FF563@screnci.local> References: <20091201.125747.428.71023@mailpop05.vgs.untd.com> <93D426D90E0F47678A7E578E71609E06@screnci.local><027601ca7393$4693d280$d3bb7780$@com> <003B92E643764A4EBC61041B985FF563@screnci.local> Message-ID: If you travel enough you will encounter your share of idiots. Most of the time, airline and airport personnel try to be helpful--sometimes too helpful; and then there is the idiot. Respectfully, Russell J. Thomas, Jr. THOMAS & ASSOCIATES www.californiaemployersattorneys.com Orange County Office 4121 Westerly Place, Suite 101 Newport Beach, California 92660 T: (949) 752-0101 F: (949) 257-4756 M: (949) 466-7238 Beverly Hills Office 9107 Wilshire Boulevard, Suite 450 Beverly Hills, California 90210 T: (310) 461-3561 -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of James Weisberg Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 3:09 PM To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel In retrospect it's actually kind of funny although at the time it wasn't. I travel with a Guide Dog. So, as it was discussed in this thread, I made advance arrangements to be seated in the "bulkhead" seat which affords more foot space so the dog can be in a position whereby she is not entirely on my feet nor the feet of the person next to me. No problem. When I get to the airport to check in I get assistance to the gate since the dog has yet to learn to read much to my consternation. When I get to the gate I check in and inform the attendant about the Guide Dog and confirm the placement in the bulkhead seat. At this time I also inquire if the plane is full, sometimes it is not, as in this instance. I inform the attendant they may wish to juggle the passengers around and leave the seat next to me empty so they do not have a paying passenger with a dog on their legs for the entire trip. Never had a problem when put in these terms. I also inform them the window seat is necessary to keep the dog from sticking into the isle. So a window, bulkhead seat with and empty seat next to me is ideal for me, the dog, and the passenger who would otherwise be seated next to me. Get on the plane and in my window bulk head seat which has been assigned to me along with leaving the seat next to me empty which was arranged at the gate. I am traveling with a cat in a container which I have paid to bring on the plane and immediately after taking my seat I place the cat container in the seat next to me to get "situated." As soon as I am seated I am confronted by a stew who says I will have to change seats to another row; non bulkhead. I think it was the cat container b/c the rules I believe are it has to be placed under the seat in front of you and a bulkhead seat has no seat in front of it so . . . On my travels the other way with the cat six months earlier the container was taken and moved to an appropriate place on the plane to the entertainment of the other passengers. Anyways, I politely inform the stew I cannot move to another row and attempt to explain my particular circumstances which make this so. He interrupts me and starts to berate me, and here comes the funny part, he actually says to me, "we have disabled passengers who have paid for these seats (the two next to me)." Keep in mind I am sitting there with a dog in harness that says "Guide Dogs for the Blind." This guy is a real genius. I just tell him after that to het his supervisor. The sup shows and gives me the same routine stating there is an entire empty row in the rear of the plane (where of course only I would be inconvenienced without a place for MY feet). So instead of moving the passengers across the isle in the bulkhead row to the empty row of seats and allowing the other disabled passengers to take the bulk head across the row from me they instead stuck a nice old woman and her daughter next to me (nobody disabled) and this nice woman took it in stride with grace and dealt with a dog on her feet for four plus hours. The humiliation comes from, if not obvious, having my disability pointed out to all on the plane who hadn't already noticed in a demeaning manner (which would not have occurred but for the disability)thereafter followed up by their non accommodating my request to me indicates indifference to the needs of those similarly situated as I when traveling. Seems like the airline I refer is in need of some modification to their training. I think I may help them out toward that end. James W. Weisberg, Esq. Law Office of J. William Weisberg 299 South Patencio Road #3 Palm Springs, California 92262 V: 916.425.1010 F: 916.374.7667 E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com Admitted in Wisconsin Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil Rights Advocacy for Children with Diabetes This message contains information which may be confidential and privileged. Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from your system. This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client relationship nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William Weisberg expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in accordance with this disclaimer. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of WB Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 1:06 PM To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel Well, exactly how wer you marginalized is what the question is I think. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of James Weisberg Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 2:40 PM To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel being marginalized because of something (my case disability)in front of a plane full of passengers is humiliating. No? James W. Weisberg, Esq. Law Office of J. William Weisberg 299 South Patencio Road #3 Palm Springs, California 92262 V: 916.425.1010 F: 916.374.7667 E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com Admitted in Wisconsin Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil Rights Advocacy for Children with Diabetes This message contains information which may be confidential and privileged. Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from your system. This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client relationship nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William Weisberg expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in accordance with this disclaimer. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 11:19 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel In your opinion, how were you humiliated? Steve Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Weisberg" To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 1:01 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > As the original poster of this thread I wanted to point out the reason for > my inquiry was not related to accommodations but rather being publicly > humiliated by air carrier staff (stew) which of course is a common carrier > and that's a big "no no." Since the humiliation was based upon the > presence > of a guide dog the ADA first came to mind. > > > > Finally, Ben you rock dude!! > > > James W. Weisberg, Esq. > > Law Office of J. William Weisberg > > 299 South Patencio Road #3 > > Palm Springs, California 92262 > > V: 916.425.1010 > > F: 916.374.7667 > > E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com > > Admitted in Wisconsin > > Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil Rights > Advocacy for Children with Diabetes > > This message contains information which may be confidential and > privileged. > Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), > you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information > contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, > please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from your > system. > > This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client > relationship > nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William > Weisberg > expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in > accordance with this disclaimer. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of stiehm.law > Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 12:58 PM > To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org > Cc: blindlaw at nfbnet.org > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > > In addition to the airlines, I have recently become curious as to what if > any, accommodations for the TSA makes with respect to disabled people > going through security and being picked up by somebody at the gate at the > terminal at the other end of the flight. For example, do they permit a > blind person who is traveling alone to be accompanied through security, > down to the airline check-in counter at the gate by a non-ticketed > person. > > At the other end, is a non-ticketed person permitted through security to > go to the gate to meet a blind person flying alone? > > If TSA does not provide for such accommodations do the airlines take it > on themselves to provide this service? > > Has anybody had any experience in this regard? Is the accommodation, if > any, voluntary on the part of the TSA and/or the airlines or is it > governed by regulation? > > Patrick H. Stiehm > Stiehm Law Office > Alexandria, VA 22309 > 703-360-1089 (Voice) > 703-935-8266 (Fax) > > > > Tue, 1 Dec 2009 11:30:37 -0800 "Russell J. Thomas, Jr." > writes: >> Off the top of my head, and without any new research, the only case >> I >> remember is a case challenging the accessibility of airline websites >> with >> respect to attempting to make reservations and ordering tickets on >> line. >> >> I also think that there are regulations on the subject, especially >> dealing >> with how disabled passengers are to be treated (or perhaps on some >> occasions >> mistreated). >> >> I often thought it would be a good idea for the NFB to put together >> a short >> guide book concerning travel, including air travel, based upon >> experiences >> of NFB members, to be used as a reference guide for blind people who >> use air >> travel. Certainly things have changed since 911--some changes for >> the good, >> and others not so good. >> >> >> >> >> Respectfully, >> >> >> >> Russell J. Thomas, Jr. >> >> THOMAS & ASSOCIATES >> >> www.californiaemployersattorneys.com >> >> >> >> Orange County Office >> >> 4121 Westerly Place, Suite 101 >> >> Newport Beach, California 92660 >> >> T: (949) 752-0101 >> >> F: (949) 257-4756 >> >> M: (949) 466-7238 >> >> >> >> Beverly Hills Office >> >> 9107 Wilshire Boulevard, Suite 450 >> >> Beverly Hills, California 90210 >> >> T: (310) 461-3561 >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf Of James Weisberg >> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 10:01 AM >> To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' >> Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel >> >> Hi Folks: >> >> >> >> Anyone on the lists have experience or knowledge regarding the ADA >> and suits >> against air carriers for violations available for quick consult? >> Thanks. >> >> >> >> James W. Weisberg, Esq. >> >> Law Office of J. William Weisberg >> >> 299 South Patencio Road #3 >> >> Palm Springs, California 92262 >> >> V: 916.425.1010 >> >> F: 916.374.7667 >> >> E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com >> >> Admitted in Wisconsin >> >> Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil >> Rights >> Advocacy for Children with Diabetes >> >> This message contains information which may be confidential and >> privileged. >> Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the >> addressee), >> you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any >> information >> contained in this message. If you have received this message in >> error, >> please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from >> your >> system. >> >> This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client >> relationship >> nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William >> Weisberg >> expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information >> in >> accordance with this disclaimer. >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for >> blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rthomas%40rjtla > wfi >> rm.com >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stiehm.law%40ju > no.com >> > > ____________________________________________________________ > Hotel > Hotel pics, info and virtual tours. Click here to book a hotel online. > http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/c?cp=ewJKbyZ61QloDsW_i_oQ_wAAJ1BdRO > y9vkzpR6E_Fj7jZTbnAAYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAATRAAAAAA= > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jimi-law%40dc.rr.c > om > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4652 (20091201) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4652 (20091201) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4653 (20091201) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4655 (20091202) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4655 (20091202) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in sightbb.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.426 / Virus Database: 270.14.90/2540 - Release Date: 12/02/09 07:33:00 _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jimi-law%40dc.rr.c om __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4656 (20091202) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4656 (20091202) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4656 (20091202) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniverse08%40gma il.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jimi-law%40dc.rr.c om __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4656 (20091202) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4656 (20091202) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4656 (20091202) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rthomas%40rjtlawfi rm.com From dennisgclark at sbcglobal.net Thu Dec 3 00:44:23 2009 From: dennisgclark at sbcglobal.net (Dennis Clark) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 16:44:23 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel References: <20091201.125747.428.71023@mailpop05.vgs.untd.com> <93D426D90E0F47678A7E578E71609E06@screnci.local><027601ca7393$4693d280$d3bb7780$@com> <003B92E643764A4EBC61041B985FF563@screnci.local> Message-ID: <000b01ca73b1$c2409b20$6601a8c0@server> Hi James, Which airline was this? Thanks, Dennis ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Weisberg" To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 3:08 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > In retrospect it's actually kind of funny although at the time it wasn't. > I > travel with a Guide Dog. So, as it was discussed in this thread, I made > advance arrangements to be seated in the "bulkhead" seat which affords > more > foot space so the dog can be in a position whereby she is not entirely on > my > feet nor the feet of the person next to me. No problem. When I get to > the > airport to check in I get assistance to the gate since the dog has yet to > learn to read much to my consternation. When I get to the gate I check in > and inform the attendant about the Guide Dog and confirm the placement in > the bulkhead seat. At this time I also inquire if the plane is full, > sometimes it is not, as in this instance. I inform the attendant they may > wish to juggle the passengers around and leave the seat next to me empty > so > they do not have a paying passenger with a dog on their legs for the > entire > trip. Never had a problem when put in these terms. I also inform them > the > window seat is necessary to keep the dog from sticking into the isle. So > a > window, bulkhead seat with and empty seat next to me is ideal for me, the > dog, and the passenger who would otherwise be seated next to me. > > Get on the plane and in my window bulk head seat which has been assigned > to > me along with leaving the seat next to me empty which was arranged at the > gate. I am traveling with a cat in a container which I have paid to bring > on the plane and immediately after taking my seat I place the cat > container > in the seat next to me to get "situated." As soon as I am seated I am > confronted by a stew who says I will have to change seats to another row; > non bulkhead. I think it was the cat container b/c the rules I believe > are > it has to be placed under the seat in front of you and a bulkhead seat has > no seat in front of it so . . . On my travels the other way with the cat > six months earlier the container was taken and moved to an appropriate > place > on the plane to the entertainment of the other passengers. Anyways, I > politely inform the stew I cannot move to another row and attempt to > explain > my particular circumstances which make this so. He interrupts me and > starts > to berate me, and here comes the funny part, he actually says to me, "we > have disabled passengers who have paid for these seats (the two next to > me)." Keep in mind I am sitting there with a dog in harness that says > "Guide Dogs for the Blind." This guy is a real genius. I just tell him > after that to het his supervisor. The sup shows and gives me the same > routine stating there is an entire empty row in the rear of the plane > (where > of course only I would be inconvenienced without a place for MY feet). So > instead of moving the passengers across the isle in the bulkhead row to > the > empty row of seats and allowing the other disabled passengers to take the > bulk head across the row from me they instead stuck a nice old woman and > her > daughter next to me (nobody disabled) and this nice woman took it in > stride > with grace and dealt with a dog on her feet for four plus hours. > > The humiliation comes from, if not obvious, having my disability pointed > out > to all on the plane who hadn't already noticed in a demeaning manner > (which > would not have occurred but for the disability)thereafter followed up by > their non accommodating my request to me indicates indifference to the > needs > of those similarly situated as I when traveling. Seems like the airline I > refer is in need of some modification to their training. I think I may > help > them out toward that end. > > James W. Weisberg, Esq. > > Law Office of J. William Weisberg > > 299 South Patencio Road #3 > > Palm Springs, California 92262 > > V: 916.425.1010 > > F: 916.374.7667 > > E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com > > Admitted in Wisconsin > > Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil Rights > Advocacy for Children with Diabetes > > This message contains information which may be confidential and > privileged. > Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), > you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information > contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, > please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from your > system. > > This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client > relationship > nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William > Weisberg > expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in > accordance with this disclaimer. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of WB > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 1:06 PM > To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > > Well, exactly how wer you marginalized is what the question is I think. > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of James Weisberg > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 2:40 PM > To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > > being marginalized because of something (my case disability)in front of a > plane full of passengers is humiliating. No? > > James W. Weisberg, Esq. > > Law Office of J. William Weisberg > > 299 South Patencio Road #3 > > Palm Springs, California 92262 > > V: 916.425.1010 > > F: 916.374.7667 > > E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com > > Admitted in Wisconsin > > Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil Rights > Advocacy for Children with Diabetes > > This message contains information which may be confidential and > privileged. > Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), > you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information > contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, > please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from your > system. > > This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client > relationship > nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William > Weisberg > expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in > accordance with this disclaimer. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 11:19 AM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > > In your opinion, how were you humiliated? > Steve > Steve > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "James Weisberg" > To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 1:01 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > > >> As the original poster of this thread I wanted to point out the reason >> for >> my inquiry was not related to accommodations but rather being publicly >> humiliated by air carrier staff (stew) which of course is a common >> carrier >> and that's a big "no no." Since the humiliation was based upon the >> presence >> of a guide dog the ADA first came to mind. >> >> >> >> Finally, Ben you rock dude!! >> >> >> James W. Weisberg, Esq. >> >> Law Office of J. William Weisberg >> >> 299 South Patencio Road #3 >> >> Palm Springs, California 92262 >> >> V: 916.425.1010 >> >> F: 916.374.7667 >> >> E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com >> >> Admitted in Wisconsin >> >> Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil Rights >> Advocacy for Children with Diabetes >> >> This message contains information which may be confidential and >> privileged. >> Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the >> addressee), >> you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any >> information >> contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, >> please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from your >> system. >> >> This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client >> relationship >> nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William >> Weisberg >> expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in >> accordance with this disclaimer. >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf Of stiehm.law >> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 12:58 PM >> To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> Cc: blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel >> >> In addition to the airlines, I have recently become curious as to what if >> any, accommodations for the TSA makes with respect to disabled people >> going through security and being picked up by somebody at the gate at the >> terminal at the other end of the flight. For example, do they permit a >> blind person who is traveling alone to be accompanied through security, >> down to the airline check-in counter at the gate by a non-ticketed >> person. >> >> At the other end, is a non-ticketed person permitted through security to >> go to the gate to meet a blind person flying alone? >> >> If TSA does not provide for such accommodations do the airlines take it >> on themselves to provide this service? >> >> Has anybody had any experience in this regard? Is the accommodation, if >> any, voluntary on the part of the TSA and/or the airlines or is it >> governed by regulation? >> >> Patrick H. Stiehm >> Stiehm Law Office >> Alexandria, VA 22309 >> 703-360-1089 (Voice) >> 703-935-8266 (Fax) >> >> >> >> Tue, 1 Dec 2009 11:30:37 -0800 "Russell J. Thomas, Jr." >> writes: >>> Off the top of my head, and without any new research, the only case >>> I >>> remember is a case challenging the accessibility of airline websites >>> with >>> respect to attempting to make reservations and ordering tickets on >>> line. >>> >>> I also think that there are regulations on the subject, especially >>> dealing >>> with how disabled passengers are to be treated (or perhaps on some >>> occasions >>> mistreated). >>> >>> I often thought it would be a good idea for the NFB to put together >>> a short >>> guide book concerning travel, including air travel, based upon >>> experiences >>> of NFB members, to be used as a reference guide for blind people who >>> use air >>> travel. Certainly things have changed since 911--some changes for >>> the good, >>> and others not so good. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Respectfully, >>> >>> >>> >>> Russell J. Thomas, Jr. >>> >>> THOMAS & ASSOCIATES >>> >>> www.californiaemployersattorneys.com >>> >>> >>> >>> Orange County Office >>> >>> 4121 Westerly Place, Suite 101 >>> >>> Newport Beach, California 92660 >>> >>> T: (949) 752-0101 >>> >>> F: (949) 257-4756 >>> >>> M: (949) 466-7238 >>> >>> >>> >>> Beverly Hills Office >>> >>> 9107 Wilshire Boulevard, Suite 450 >>> >>> Beverly Hills, California 90210 >>> >>> T: (310) 461-3561 >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>> Behalf Of James Weisberg >>> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 10:01 AM >>> To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' >>> Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel >>> >>> Hi Folks: >>> >>> >>> >>> Anyone on the lists have experience or knowledge regarding the ADA >>> and suits >>> against air carriers for violations available for quick consult? >>> Thanks. >>> >>> >>> >>> James W. Weisberg, Esq. >>> >>> Law Office of J. William Weisberg >>> >>> 299 South Patencio Road #3 >>> >>> Palm Springs, California 92262 >>> >>> V: 916.425.1010 >>> >>> F: 916.374.7667 >>> >>> E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com >>> >>> Admitted in Wisconsin >>> >>> Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil >>> Rights >>> Advocacy for Children with Diabetes >>> >>> This message contains information which may be confidential and >>> privileged. >>> Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the >>> addressee), >>> you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any >>> information >>> contained in this message. If you have received this message in >>> error, >>> please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from >>> your >>> system. >>> >>> This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client >>> relationship >>> nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William >>> Weisberg >>> expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information >>> in >>> accordance with this disclaimer. >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> blindlaw: >>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rthomas%40rjtla >> wfi >>> rm.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for blindlaw: >>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stiehm.law%40ju >> no.com >>> >> >> ____________________________________________________________ >> Hotel >> Hotel pics, info and virtual tours. Click here to book a hotel online. >> > http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/c?cp=ewJKbyZ61QloDsW_i_oQ_wAAJ1BdRO >> y9vkzpR6E_Fj7jZTbnAAYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAATRAAAAAA= >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jimi-law%40dc.rr.c >> om >> >> __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus >> signature >> database 4652 (20091201) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus >> signature >> database 4652 (20091201) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus >> signature >> database 4653 (20091201) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus >> signature >> database 4655 (20091202) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus >> signature >> database 4655 (20091202) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in > sightbb.com > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.426 / Virus Database: 270.14.90/2540 - Release Date: 12/02/09 > 07:33:00 > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jimi-law%40dc.rr.c > om > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4656 (20091202) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4656 (20091202) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4656 (20091202) __________ > >The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniverse08%40gma > il.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jimi-law%40dc.rr.c > om > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4656 (20091202) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4656 (20091202) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4656 (20091202) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dennisgclark%40sbcglobal.net From pattichang at att.net Thu Dec 3 00:59:50 2009 From: pattichang at att.net (Patti Gregory-Chang) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 18:59:50 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel References: Message-ID: <663494BE8082450E98549523FC343713@D3J75Z91> I can top that one, when my daughter was weeks old she was snatched out of my hands by airline personnel. I still can't believe it. P.S. National Federation of the Blind of Illinois is now on twitter at www.twitter.com/nfbi. We also have a facebook page. Just search for our full name. Patti Gregory-Chang President, National Federation of the Blind of Illinois pattichang at att.net www.nfbofillinois.org ----- Original Message ----- From: "Reyazuddin, Yasmin" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 7:22 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > > Hi Patrick > I just returned back from India, and I can give you the international > view on this matter. > The airlines are supposed to know about your travel plans. I got > assistance getting to the security points and beyond. At the same time > in London I was told something interesting. When we purchase the ticket > we can select our meals and the seat in advance. We need to inform about > needing assistance. Under the disability we could say (wheelchair R,) > meaning we just need assistance with getting from point to point. If we > choose (wheelchair S) it will mean that we need a wheelchair and we will > need assistance if aircraft is reached by climbing steps. > TSA is not very helpful in working with blind passengers. One security > guard snatched my passport and ticket out of my hand without asking or > informing me about it. Of course, I screamed and then she asked by looks > from a fellow passenger. I gave her some harsh words and she left. > Yasmin Reyazuddin > Information & Referral unit > Department of Health & human services > 401 Hungerford Drive (1st floor) > Rockville MD 20850 > Phone 240-777-1245 (info line) > 240-777-1556 (personal line) > Fax: 240-777-4636 > TTY: 240-777-1295 > > Office hours 8:30 am to 5:00 pm > > Languages English, Hindi, Urdu > > This message may contain protected health information or other > information that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the > intended recipient, please contact the sender by return mail and destroy > any copies of this material. > > Thank you. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] > On Behalf Of stiehm.law > Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 3:58 PM > To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org > Cc: blindlaw at nfbnet.org > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > > In addition to the airlines, I have recently become curious as to what > if > any, accommodations for the TSA makes with respect to disabled people > going through security and being picked up by somebody at the gate at > the > terminal at the other end of the flight. For example, do they permit a > blind person who is traveling alone to be accompanied through security, > down to the airline check-in counter at the gate by a non-ticketed > person. > > At the other end, is a non-ticketed person permitted through security to > go to the gate to meet a blind person flying alone? > > If TSA does not provide for such accommodations do the airlines take it > on themselves to provide this service? > > Has anybody had any experience in this regard? Is the accommodation, if > any, voluntary on the part of the TSA and/or the airlines or is it > governed by regulation? > > Patrick H. Stiehm > Stiehm Law Office > Alexandria, VA 22309 > 703-360-1089 (Voice) > 703-935-8266 (Fax) > > > > Tue, 1 Dec 2009 11:30:37 -0800 "Russell J. Thomas, Jr." > writes: >> Off the top of my head, and without any new research, the only case >> I >> remember is a case challenging the accessibility of airline websites >> with >> respect to attempting to make reservations and ordering tickets on >> line. >> >> I also think that there are regulations on the subject, especially >> dealing >> with how disabled passengers are to be treated (or perhaps on some >> occasions >> mistreated). >> >> I often thought it would be a good idea for the NFB to put together >> a short >> guide book concerning travel, including air travel, based upon >> experiences >> of NFB members, to be used as a reference guide for blind people who >> use air >> travel. Certainly things have changed since 911--some changes for >> the good, >> and others not so good. >> >> >> >> >> Respectfully, >> >> >> >> Russell J. Thomas, Jr. >> >> THOMAS & ASSOCIATES >> >> www.californiaemployersattorneys.com >> >> >> >> Orange County Office >> >> 4121 Westerly Place, Suite 101 >> >> Newport Beach, California 92660 >> >> T: (949) 752-0101 >> >> F: (949) 257-4756 >> >> M: (949) 466-7238 >> >> >> >> Beverly Hills Office >> >> 9107 Wilshire Boulevard, Suite 450 >> >> Beverly Hills, California 90210 >> >> T: (310) 461-3561 >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf Of James Weisberg >> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 10:01 AM >> To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' >> Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel >> >> Hi Folks: >> >> >> >> Anyone on the lists have experience or knowledge regarding the ADA >> and suits >> against air carriers for violations available for quick consult? >> Thanks. >> >> >> >> James W. Weisberg, Esq. >> >> Law Office of J. William Weisberg >> >> 299 South Patencio Road #3 >> >> Palm Springs, California 92262 >> >> V: 916.425.1010 >> >> F: 916.374.7667 >> >> E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com >> >> Admitted in Wisconsin >> >> Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil >> Rights >> Advocacy for Children with Diabetes >> >> This message contains information which may be confidential and >> privileged. >> Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the >> addressee), >> you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any >> information >> contained in this message. If you have received this message in >> error, >> please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from >> your >> system. >> >> This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client >> relationship >> nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William >> Weisberg >> expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information >> in >> accordance with this disclaimer. >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for >> blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rthomas%40rjtl > a > wfi >> rm.com >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stiehm.law%40j > u > no.com >> > > ____________________________________________________________ > Hotel > Hotel pics, info and virtual tours. Click here to book a hotel online. > http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/c?cp=ewJKbyZ61QloDsW_i_oQ_wAAJ1 > BdROy9vkzpR6E_Fj7jZTbnAAYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAATRAAAAA > A= > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/yasmin.reyazud > din%40montgomerycountymd.gov > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pattichang%40att.net From jimi-law at dc.rr.com Thu Dec 3 01:28:18 2009 From: jimi-law at dc.rr.com (James Weisberg) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 17:28:18 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel In-Reply-To: <02cc01ca73a5$2c438120$84ca8360$@com> References: <20091201.125747.428.71023@mailpop05.vgs.untd.com> <93D426D90E0F47678A7E578E71609E06@screnci.local> <027601ca7393$4693d280$d3bb7780$@com><003B92E643764A4EBC61041B985FF563@screnci.local> <02cc01ca73a5$2c438120$84ca8360$@com> Message-ID: <939B98E432004FC4BA69464FA4D211B1@screnci.local> This incident was NOTHING. With my first dog I was asked after taking my seat if my dog had a "license" to be on the plane. Of course I knew this was absurd. The stew in this particular case was Asian and it was apparent to me (still had some vision at the time) she had some cultural issues going on. Anyways, same situation; I ask to speak with the supervisor who comes over and backs up his staff. I tell him to blow off (keep in mind I am litigating in civil court all the time). A short while passes when several people obviously from the airline ask me to exit my seat (which by the way was a bulkhead seat, i.e., in front of all the passengers)and come with them. They removed me from the plane and took me with my Guide Dog out into the breezeway where the airline biggie took out a manual and found a regulation to show me indicating if I was asked for identification the service animal was indeed a service animal I was required to produce it. Unfortunately, once again the staff was untrained and after producing the "card" issued me by Guide Dogs was let back on the plane to my seat. Asked for a license but only really needed to show proof of the fact the dog was a service animal. Pathetic. Didn't sue then but vowed I wouldn't be pushed around in the future. James W. Weisberg, Esq. Law Office of J. William Weisberg 299 South Patencio Road #3 Palm Springs, California 92262 V: 916.425.1010 F: 916.374.7667 E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com Admitted in Wisconsin Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil Rights Advocacy for Children with Diabetes This message contains information which may be confidential and privileged. Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from your system. This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client relationship nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William Weisberg expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in accordance with this disclaimer. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of WB Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 3:14 PM To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel After reading this detail, the earlier e-mails you sent now make sense to me. That's very sad that those attendants were not in line with whatever training they received. I'm sure they had to have had some and from what you say, it doesn't seem like they put any of it into practice. Has the airline powers that be turned their noses up to your requests for information on their training program or requests for some type of being made whole? I'm curious as I've never experienced anything to the level of which you speak. Thanks for sharing. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of James Weisberg Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 5:09 PM To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel In retrospect it's actually kind of funny although at the time it wasn't. I travel with a Guide Dog. So, as it was discussed in this thread, I made advance arrangements to be seated in the "bulkhead" seat which affords more foot space so the dog can be in a position whereby she is not entirely on my feet nor the feet of the person next to me. No problem. When I get to the airport to check in I get assistance to the gate since the dog has yet to learn to read much to my consternation. When I get to the gate I check in and inform the attendant about the Guide Dog and confirm the placement in the bulkhead seat. At this time I also inquire if the plane is full, sometimes it is not, as in this instance. I inform the attendant they may wish to juggle the passengers around and leave the seat next to me empty so they do not have a paying passenger with a dog on their legs for the entire trip. Never had a problem when put in these terms. I also inform them the window seat is necessary to keep the dog from sticking into the isle. So a window, bulkhead seat with and empty seat next to me is ideal for me, the dog, and the passenger who would otherwise be seated next to me. Get on the plane and in my window bulk head seat which has been assigned to me along with leaving the seat next to me empty which was arranged at the gate. I am traveling with a cat in a container which I have paid to bring on the plane and immediately after taking my seat I place the cat container in the seat next to me to get "situated." As soon as I am seated I am confronted by a stew who says I will have to change seats to another row; non bulkhead. I think it was the cat container b/c the rules I believe are it has to be placed under the seat in front of you and a bulkhead seat has no seat in front of it so . . . On my travels the other way with the cat six months earlier the container was taken and moved to an appropriate place on the plane to the entertainment of the other passengers. Anyways, I politely inform the stew I cannot move to another row and attempt to explain my particular circumstances which make this so. He interrupts me and starts to berate me, and here comes the funny part, he actually says to me, "we have disabled passengers who have paid for these seats (the two next to me)." Keep in mind I am sitting there with a dog in harness that says "Guide Dogs for the Blind." This guy is a real genius. I just tell him after that to het his supervisor. The sup shows and gives me the same routine stating there is an entire empty row in the rear of the plane (where of course only I would be inconvenienced without a place for MY feet). So instead of moving the passengers across the isle in the bulkhead row to the empty row of seats and allowing the other disabled passengers to take the bulk head across the row from me they instead stuck a nice old woman and her daughter next to me (nobody disabled) and this nice woman took it in stride with grace and dealt with a dog on her feet for four plus hours. The humiliation comes from, if not obvious, having my disability pointed out to all on the plane who hadn't already noticed in a demeaning manner (which would not have occurred but for the disability)thereafter followed up by their non accommodating my request to me indicates indifference to the needs of those similarly situated as I when traveling. Seems like the airline I refer is in need of some modification to their training. I think I may help them out toward that end. James W. Weisberg, Esq. Law Office of J. William Weisberg 299 South Patencio Road #3 Palm Springs, California 92262 V: 916.425.1010 F: 916.374.7667 E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com Admitted in Wisconsin Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil Rights Advocacy for Children with Diabetes This message contains information which may be confidential and privileged. Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from your system. This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client relationship nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William Weisberg expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in accordance with this disclaimer. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of WB Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 1:06 PM To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel Well, exactly how wer you marginalized is what the question is I think. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of James Weisberg Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 2:40 PM To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel being marginalized because of something (my case disability)in front of a plane full of passengers is humiliating. No? James W. Weisberg, Esq. Law Office of J. William Weisberg 299 South Patencio Road #3 Palm Springs, California 92262 V: 916.425.1010 F: 916.374.7667 E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com Admitted in Wisconsin Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil Rights Advocacy for Children with Diabetes This message contains information which may be confidential and privileged. Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from your system. This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client relationship nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William Weisberg expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in accordance with this disclaimer. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 11:19 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel In your opinion, how were you humiliated? Steve Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Weisberg" To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 1:01 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > As the original poster of this thread I wanted to point out the reason for > my inquiry was not related to accommodations but rather being publicly > humiliated by air carrier staff (stew) which of course is a common carrier > and that's a big "no no." Since the humiliation was based upon the > presence > of a guide dog the ADA first came to mind. > > > > Finally, Ben you rock dude!! > > > James W. Weisberg, Esq. > > Law Office of J. William Weisberg > > 299 South Patencio Road #3 > > Palm Springs, California 92262 > > V: 916.425.1010 > > F: 916.374.7667 > > E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com > > Admitted in Wisconsin > > Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil Rights > Advocacy for Children with Diabetes > > This message contains information which may be confidential and > privileged. > Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), > you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information > contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, > please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from your > system. > > This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client > relationship > nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William > Weisberg > expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in > accordance with this disclaimer. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of stiehm.law > Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 12:58 PM > To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org > Cc: blindlaw at nfbnet.org > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > > In addition to the airlines, I have recently become curious as to what if > any, accommodations for the TSA makes with respect to disabled people > going through security and being picked up by somebody at the gate at the > terminal at the other end of the flight. For example, do they permit a > blind person who is traveling alone to be accompanied through security, > down to the airline check-in counter at the gate by a non-ticketed > person. > > At the other end, is a non-ticketed person permitted through security to > go to the gate to meet a blind person flying alone? > > If TSA does not provide for such accommodations do the airlines take it > on themselves to provide this service? > > Has anybody had any experience in this regard? Is the accommodation, if > any, voluntary on the part of the TSA and/or the airlines or is it > governed by regulation? > > Patrick H. Stiehm > Stiehm Law Office > Alexandria, VA 22309 > 703-360-1089 (Voice) > 703-935-8266 (Fax) > > > > Tue, 1 Dec 2009 11:30:37 -0800 "Russell J. Thomas, Jr." > writes: >> Off the top of my head, and without any new research, the only case >> I >> remember is a case challenging the accessibility of airline websites >> with >> respect to attempting to make reservations and ordering tickets on >> line. >> >> I also think that there are regulations on the subject, especially >> dealing >> with how disabled passengers are to be treated (or perhaps on some >> occasions >> mistreated). >> >> I often thought it would be a good idea for the NFB to put together >> a short >> guide book concerning travel, including air travel, based upon >> experiences >> of NFB members, to be used as a reference guide for blind people who >> use air >> travel. Certainly things have changed since 911--some changes for >> the good, >> and others not so good. >> >> >> >> >> Respectfully, >> >> >> >> Russell J. Thomas, Jr. >> >> THOMAS & ASSOCIATES >> >> www.californiaemployersattorneys.com >> >> >> >> Orange County Office >> >> 4121 Westerly Place, Suite 101 >> >> Newport Beach, California 92660 >> >> T: (949) 752-0101 >> >> F: (949) 257-4756 >> >> M: (949) 466-7238 >> >> >> >> Beverly Hills Office >> >> 9107 Wilshire Boulevard, Suite 450 >> >> Beverly Hills, California 90210 >> >> T: (310) 461-3561 >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf Of James Weisberg >> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 10:01 AM >> To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' >> Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel >> >> Hi Folks: >> >> >> >> Anyone on the lists have experience or knowledge regarding the ADA >> and suits >> against air carriers for violations available for quick consult? >> Thanks. >> >> >> >> James W. Weisberg, Esq. >> >> Law Office of J. William Weisberg >> >> 299 South Patencio Road #3 >> >> Palm Springs, California 92262 >> >> V: 916.425.1010 >> >> F: 916.374.7667 >> >> E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com >> >> Admitted in Wisconsin >> >> Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil >> Rights >> Advocacy for Children with Diabetes >> >> This message contains information which may be confidential and >> privileged. >> Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the >> addressee), >> you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any >> information >> contained in this message. If you have received this message in >> error, >> please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from >> your >> system. >> >> This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client >> relationship >> nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William >> Weisberg >> expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information >> in >> accordance with this disclaimer. >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for >> blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rthomas%40rjtla > wfi >> rm.com >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stiehm.law%40ju > no.com >> > > ____________________________________________________________ > Hotel > Hotel pics, info and virtual tours. Click here to book a hotel online. > http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/c?cp=ewJKbyZ61QloDsW_i_oQ_wAAJ1BdRO > y9vkzpR6E_Fj7jZTbnAAYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAATRAAAAAA= > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jimi-law%40dc.rr.c > om > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4652 (20091201) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4652 (20091201) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4653 (20091201) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4655 (20091202) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4655 (20091202) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in sightbb.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.426 / Virus Database: 270.14.90/2540 - Release Date: 12/02/09 07:33:00 _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jimi-law%40dc.rr.c om __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4656 (20091202) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4656 (20091202) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4656 (20091202) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniverse08%40gma il.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jimi-law%40dc.rr.c om __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4656 (20091202) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4656 (20091202) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4656 (20091202) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniverse08%40gma il.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jimi-law%40dc.rr.c om __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4656 (20091202) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4656 (20091202) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4656 (20091202) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com From jimi-law at dc.rr.com Thu Dec 3 01:34:44 2009 From: jimi-law at dc.rr.com (James Weisberg) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 17:34:44 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel In-Reply-To: <5C3F1B998E56410090FAE5D9E278050A@StevePC> References: <20091201.125747.428.71023@mailpop05.vgs.untd.com><93D426D90E0F47678A7E578E71609E06@screnci.local><027601ca7393$4693d280$d3bb7780$@com><003B92E643764A4EBC61041B985FF563@screnci.local> <5C3F1B998E56410090FAE5D9E278050A@StevePC> Message-ID: <9A3F144C9DC6403A80C345AD22A8F619@screnci.local> Assumptions. Who said anything about money damages? I referenced their need to adequately train their staff I think. Who is going to advocate for people like me? If I can do it for myself should I not? It takes thick skin to fight the good fight and not go along to get along. James W. Weisberg, Esq. Law Office of J. William Weisberg 299 South Patencio Road #3 Palm Springs, California 92262 V: 916.425.1010 F: 916.374.7667 E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com Admitted in Wisconsin Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil Rights Advocacy for Children with Diabetes This message contains information which may be confidential and privileged. Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from your system. This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client relationship nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William Weisberg expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in accordance with this disclaimer. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 4:19 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel I think you just get some thicker skin and go on with your life. A bad break but not worth monetary damages. Steve----- Original Message ----- From: "James Weisberg" To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 6:08 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > In retrospect it's actually kind of funny although at the time it wasn't. > I > travel with a Guide Dog. So, as it was discussed in this thread, I made > advance arrangements to be seated in the "bulkhead" seat which affords > more > foot space so the dog can be in a position whereby she is not entirely on > my > feet nor the feet of the person next to me. No problem. When I get to > the > airport to check in I get assistance to the gate since the dog has yet to > learn to read much to my consternation. When I get to the gate I check in > and inform the attendant about the Guide Dog and confirm the placement in > the bulkhead seat. At this time I also inquire if the plane is full, > sometimes it is not, as in this instance. I inform the attendant they may > wish to juggle the passengers around and leave the seat next to me empty > so > they do not have a paying passenger with a dog on their legs for the > entire > trip. Never had a problem when put in these terms. I also inform them > the > window seat is necessary to keep the dog from sticking into the isle. So > a > window, bulkhead seat with and empty seat next to me is ideal for me, the > dog, and the passenger who would otherwise be seated next to me. > > Get on the plane and in my window bulk head seat which has been assigned > to > me along with leaving the seat next to me empty which was arranged at the > gate. I am traveling with a cat in a container which I have paid to bring > on the plane and immediately after taking my seat I place the cat > container > in the seat next to me to get "situated." As soon as I am seated I am > confronted by a stew who says I will have to change seats to another row; > non bulkhead. I think it was the cat container b/c the rules I believe > are > it has to be placed under the seat in front of you and a bulkhead seat has > no seat in front of it so . . . On my travels the other way with the cat > six months earlier the container was taken and moved to an appropriate > place > on the plane to the entertainment of the other passengers. Anyways, I > politely inform the stew I cannot move to another row and attempt to > explain > my particular circumstances which make this so. He interrupts me and > starts > to berate me, and here comes the funny part, he actually says to me, "we > have disabled passengers who have paid for these seats (the two next to > me)." Keep in mind I am sitting there with a dog in harness that says > "Guide Dogs for the Blind." This guy is a real genius. I just tell him > after that to het his supervisor. The sup shows and gives me the same > routine stating there is an entire empty row in the rear of the plane > (where > of course only I would be inconvenienced without a place for MY feet). So > instead of moving the passengers across the isle in the bulkhead row to > the > empty row of seats and allowing the other disabled passengers to take the > bulk head across the row from me they instead stuck a nice old woman and > her > daughter next to me (nobody disabled) and this nice woman took it in > stride > with grace and dealt with a dog on her feet for four plus hours. > > The humiliation comes from, if not obvious, having my disability pointed > out > to all on the plane who hadn't already noticed in a demeaning manner > (which > would not have occurred but for the disability)thereafter followed up by > their non accommodating my request to me indicates indifference to the > needs > of those similarly situated as I when traveling. Seems like the airline I > refer is in need of some modification to their training. I think I may > help > them out toward that end. > > James W. Weisberg, Esq. > > Law Office of J. William Weisberg > > 299 South Patencio Road #3 > > Palm Springs, California 92262 > > V: 916.425.1010 > > F: 916.374.7667 > > E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com > > Admitted in Wisconsin > > Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil Rights > Advocacy for Children with Diabetes > > This message contains information which may be confidential and > privileged. > Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), > you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information > contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, > please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from your > system. > > This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client > relationship > nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William > Weisberg > expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in > accordance with this disclaimer. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of WB > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 1:06 PM > To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > > Well, exactly how wer you marginalized is what the question is I think. > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of James Weisberg > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 2:40 PM > To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > > being marginalized because of something (my case disability)in front of a > plane full of passengers is humiliating. No? > > James W. Weisberg, Esq. > > Law Office of J. William Weisberg > > 299 South Patencio Road #3 > > Palm Springs, California 92262 > > V: 916.425.1010 > > F: 916.374.7667 > > E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com > > Admitted in Wisconsin > > Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil Rights > Advocacy for Children with Diabetes > > This message contains information which may be confidential and > privileged. > Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), > you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information > contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, > please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from your > system. > > This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client > relationship > nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William > Weisberg > expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in > accordance with this disclaimer. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 11:19 AM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > > In your opinion, how were you humiliated? > Steve > Steve > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "James Weisberg" > To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 1:01 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > > >> As the original poster of this thread I wanted to point out the reason >> for >> my inquiry was not related to accommodations but rather being publicly >> humiliated by air carrier staff (stew) which of course is a common >> carrier >> and that's a big "no no." Since the humiliation was based upon the >> presence >> of a guide dog the ADA first came to mind. >> >> >> >> Finally, Ben you rock dude!! >> >> >> James W. Weisberg, Esq. >> >> Law Office of J. William Weisberg >> >> 299 South Patencio Road #3 >> >> Palm Springs, California 92262 >> >> V: 916.425.1010 >> >> F: 916.374.7667 >> >> E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com >> >> Admitted in Wisconsin >> >> Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil Rights >> Advocacy for Children with Diabetes >> >> This message contains information which may be confidential and >> privileged. >> Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the >> addressee), >> you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any >> information >> contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, >> please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from your >> system. >> >> This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client >> relationship >> nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William >> Weisberg >> expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in >> accordance with this disclaimer. >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf Of stiehm.law >> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 12:58 PM >> To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> Cc: blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel >> >> In addition to the airlines, I have recently become curious as to what if >> any, accommodations for the TSA makes with respect to disabled people >> going through security and being picked up by somebody at the gate at the >> terminal at the other end of the flight. For example, do they permit a >> blind person who is traveling alone to be accompanied through security, >> down to the airline check-in counter at the gate by a non-ticketed >> person. >> >> At the other end, is a non-ticketed person permitted through security to >> go to the gate to meet a blind person flying alone? >> >> If TSA does not provide for such accommodations do the airlines take it >> on themselves to provide this service? >> >> Has anybody had any experience in this regard? Is the accommodation, if >> any, voluntary on the part of the TSA and/or the airlines or is it >> governed by regulation? >> >> Patrick H. Stiehm >> Stiehm Law Office >> Alexandria, VA 22309 >> 703-360-1089 (Voice) >> 703-935-8266 (Fax) >> >> >> >> Tue, 1 Dec 2009 11:30:37 -0800 "Russell J. Thomas, Jr." >> writes: >>> Off the top of my head, and without any new research, the only case >>> I >>> remember is a case challenging the accessibility of airline websites >>> with >>> respect to attempting to make reservations and ordering tickets on >>> line. >>> >>> I also think that there are regulations on the subject, especially >>> dealing >>> with how disabled passengers are to be treated (or perhaps on some >>> occasions >>> mistreated). >>> >>> I often thought it would be a good idea for the NFB to put together >>> a short >>> guide book concerning travel, including air travel, based upon >>> experiences >>> of NFB members, to be used as a reference guide for blind people who >>> use air >>> travel. Certainly things have changed since 911--some changes for >>> the good, >>> and others not so good. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Respectfully, >>> >>> >>> >>> Russell J. Thomas, Jr. >>> >>> THOMAS & ASSOCIATES >>> >>> www.californiaemployersattorneys.com >>> >>> >>> >>> Orange County Office >>> >>> 4121 Westerly Place, Suite 101 >>> >>> Newport Beach, California 92660 >>> >>> T: (949) 752-0101 >>> >>> F: (949) 257-4756 >>> >>> M: (949) 466-7238 >>> >>> >>> >>> Beverly Hills Office >>> >>> 9107 Wilshire Boulevard, Suite 450 >>> >>> Beverly Hills, California 90210 >>> >>> T: (310) 461-3561 >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>> Behalf Of James Weisberg >>> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 10:01 AM >>> To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' >>> Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel >>> >>> Hi Folks: >>> >>> >>> >>> Anyone on the lists have experience or knowledge regarding the ADA >>> and suits >>> against air carriers for violations available for quick consult? >>> Thanks. >>> >>> >>> >>> James W. Weisberg, Esq. >>> >>> Law Office of J. William Weisberg >>> >>> 299 South Patencio Road #3 >>> >>> Palm Springs, California 92262 >>> >>> V: 916.425.1010 >>> >>> F: 916.374.7667 >>> >>> E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com >>> >>> Admitted in Wisconsin >>> >>> Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil >>> Rights >>> Advocacy for Children with Diabetes >>> >>> This message contains information which may be confidential and >>> privileged. >>> Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the >>> addressee), >>> you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any >>> information >>> contained in this message. If you have received this message in >>> error, >>> please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from >>> your >>> system. >>> >>> This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client >>> relationship >>> nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William >>> Weisberg >>> expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information >>> in >>> accordance with this disclaimer. >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> blindlaw: >>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rthomas%40rjtla >> wfi >>> rm.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for blindlaw: >>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stiehm.law%40ju >> no.com >>> >> >> ____________________________________________________________ >> Hotel >> Hotel pics, info and virtual tours. Click here to book a hotel online. >> > http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/c?cp=ewJKbyZ61QloDsW_i_oQ_wAAJ1BdRO >> y9vkzpR6E_Fj7jZTbnAAYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAATRAAAAAA= >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jimi-law%40dc.rr.c >> om >> >> __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus >> signature >> database 4652 (20091201) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus >> signature >> database 4652 (20091201) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus >> signature >> database 4653 (20091201) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus >> signature >> database 4655 (20091202) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus >> signature >> database 4655 (20091202) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in > sightbb.com > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.426 / Virus Database: 270.14.90/2540 - Release Date: 12/02/09 > 07:33:00 > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jimi-law%40dc.rr.c > om > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4656 (20091202) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4656 (20091202) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4656 (20091202) __________ > >The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniverse08%40gma > il.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jimi-law%40dc.rr.c > om > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4656 (20091202) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4656 (20091202) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4656 (20091202) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in sightbb.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.426 / Virus Database: 270.14.91/2541 - Release Date: 12/02/09 19:43:00 _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jimi-law%40dc.rr.c om __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4656 (20091202) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4656 (20091202) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4656 (20091202) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com From jimi-law at dc.rr.com Thu Dec 3 01:35:31 2009 From: jimi-law at dc.rr.com (James Weisberg) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 17:35:31 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel In-Reply-To: References: <20091201.125747.428.71023@mailpop05.vgs.untd.com> <93D426D90E0F47678A7E578E71609E06@screnci.local><027601ca7393$4693d280$d3bb7780$@com><003B92E643764A4EBC61041B985FF563@screnci.local> Message-ID: Agreed! James W. Weisberg, Esq. Law Office of J. William Weisberg 299 South Patencio Road #3 Palm Springs, California 92262 V: 916.425.1010 F: 916.374.7667 E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com Admitted in Wisconsin Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil Rights Advocacy for Children with Diabetes This message contains information which may be confidential and privileged. Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from your system. This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client relationship nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William Weisberg expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in accordance with this disclaimer. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Russell J. Thomas, Jr. Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 4:25 PM To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel If you travel enough you will encounter your share of idiots. Most of the time, airline and airport personnel try to be helpful--sometimes too helpful; and then there is the idiot. Respectfully, Russell J. Thomas, Jr. THOMAS & ASSOCIATES www.californiaemployersattorneys.com Orange County Office 4121 Westerly Place, Suite 101 Newport Beach, California 92660 T: (949) 752-0101 F: (949) 257-4756 M: (949) 466-7238 Beverly Hills Office 9107 Wilshire Boulevard, Suite 450 Beverly Hills, California 90210 T: (310) 461-3561 -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of James Weisberg Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 3:09 PM To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel In retrospect it's actually kind of funny although at the time it wasn't. I travel with a Guide Dog. So, as it was discussed in this thread, I made advance arrangements to be seated in the "bulkhead" seat which affords more foot space so the dog can be in a position whereby she is not entirely on my feet nor the feet of the person next to me. No problem. When I get to the airport to check in I get assistance to the gate since the dog has yet to learn to read much to my consternation. When I get to the gate I check in and inform the attendant about the Guide Dog and confirm the placement in the bulkhead seat. At this time I also inquire if the plane is full, sometimes it is not, as in this instance. I inform the attendant they may wish to juggle the passengers around and leave the seat next to me empty so they do not have a paying passenger with a dog on their legs for the entire trip. Never had a problem when put in these terms. I also inform them the window seat is necessary to keep the dog from sticking into the isle. So a window, bulkhead seat with and empty seat next to me is ideal for me, the dog, and the passenger who would otherwise be seated next to me. Get on the plane and in my window bulk head seat which has been assigned to me along with leaving the seat next to me empty which was arranged at the gate. I am traveling with a cat in a container which I have paid to bring on the plane and immediately after taking my seat I place the cat container in the seat next to me to get "situated." As soon as I am seated I am confronted by a stew who says I will have to change seats to another row; non bulkhead. I think it was the cat container b/c the rules I believe are it has to be placed under the seat in front of you and a bulkhead seat has no seat in front of it so . . . On my travels the other way with the cat six months earlier the container was taken and moved to an appropriate place on the plane to the entertainment of the other passengers. Anyways, I politely inform the stew I cannot move to another row and attempt to explain my particular circumstances which make this so. He interrupts me and starts to berate me, and here comes the funny part, he actually says to me, "we have disabled passengers who have paid for these seats (the two next to me)." Keep in mind I am sitting there with a dog in harness that says "Guide Dogs for the Blind." This guy is a real genius. I just tell him after that to het his supervisor. The sup shows and gives me the same routine stating there is an entire empty row in the rear of the plane (where of course only I would be inconvenienced without a place for MY feet). So instead of moving the passengers across the isle in the bulkhead row to the empty row of seats and allowing the other disabled passengers to take the bulk head across the row from me they instead stuck a nice old woman and her daughter next to me (nobody disabled) and this nice woman took it in stride with grace and dealt with a dog on her feet for four plus hours. The humiliation comes from, if not obvious, having my disability pointed out to all on the plane who hadn't already noticed in a demeaning manner (which would not have occurred but for the disability)thereafter followed up by their non accommodating my request to me indicates indifference to the needs of those similarly situated as I when traveling. Seems like the airline I refer is in need of some modification to their training. I think I may help them out toward that end. James W. Weisberg, Esq. Law Office of J. William Weisberg 299 South Patencio Road #3 Palm Springs, California 92262 V: 916.425.1010 F: 916.374.7667 E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com Admitted in Wisconsin Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil Rights Advocacy for Children with Diabetes This message contains information which may be confidential and privileged. Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from your system. This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client relationship nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William Weisberg expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in accordance with this disclaimer. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of WB Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 1:06 PM To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel Well, exactly how wer you marginalized is what the question is I think. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of James Weisberg Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 2:40 PM To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel being marginalized because of something (my case disability)in front of a plane full of passengers is humiliating. No? James W. Weisberg, Esq. Law Office of J. William Weisberg 299 South Patencio Road #3 Palm Springs, California 92262 V: 916.425.1010 F: 916.374.7667 E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com Admitted in Wisconsin Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil Rights Advocacy for Children with Diabetes This message contains information which may be confidential and privileged. Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from your system. This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client relationship nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William Weisberg expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in accordance with this disclaimer. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 11:19 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel In your opinion, how were you humiliated? Steve Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Weisberg" To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 1:01 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > As the original poster of this thread I wanted to point out the reason for > my inquiry was not related to accommodations but rather being publicly > humiliated by air carrier staff (stew) which of course is a common carrier > and that's a big "no no." Since the humiliation was based upon the > presence > of a guide dog the ADA first came to mind. > > > > Finally, Ben you rock dude!! > > > James W. Weisberg, Esq. > > Law Office of J. William Weisberg > > 299 South Patencio Road #3 > > Palm Springs, California 92262 > > V: 916.425.1010 > > F: 916.374.7667 > > E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com > > Admitted in Wisconsin > > Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil Rights > Advocacy for Children with Diabetes > > This message contains information which may be confidential and > privileged. > Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), > you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information > contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, > please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from your > system. > > This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client > relationship > nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William > Weisberg > expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in > accordance with this disclaimer. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of stiehm.law > Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 12:58 PM > To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org > Cc: blindlaw at nfbnet.org > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > > In addition to the airlines, I have recently become curious as to what if > any, accommodations for the TSA makes with respect to disabled people > going through security and being picked up by somebody at the gate at the > terminal at the other end of the flight. For example, do they permit a > blind person who is traveling alone to be accompanied through security, > down to the airline check-in counter at the gate by a non-ticketed > person. > > At the other end, is a non-ticketed person permitted through security to > go to the gate to meet a blind person flying alone? > > If TSA does not provide for such accommodations do the airlines take it > on themselves to provide this service? > > Has anybody had any experience in this regard? Is the accommodation, if > any, voluntary on the part of the TSA and/or the airlines or is it > governed by regulation? > > Patrick H. Stiehm > Stiehm Law Office > Alexandria, VA 22309 > 703-360-1089 (Voice) > 703-935-8266 (Fax) > > > > Tue, 1 Dec 2009 11:30:37 -0800 "Russell J. Thomas, Jr." > writes: >> Off the top of my head, and without any new research, the only case >> I >> remember is a case challenging the accessibility of airline websites >> with >> respect to attempting to make reservations and ordering tickets on >> line. >> >> I also think that there are regulations on the subject, especially >> dealing >> with how disabled passengers are to be treated (or perhaps on some >> occasions >> mistreated). >> >> I often thought it would be a good idea for the NFB to put together >> a short >> guide book concerning travel, including air travel, based upon >> experiences >> of NFB members, to be used as a reference guide for blind people who >> use air >> travel. Certainly things have changed since 911--some changes for >> the good, >> and others not so good. >> >> >> >> >> Respectfully, >> >> >> >> Russell J. Thomas, Jr. >> >> THOMAS & ASSOCIATES >> >> www.californiaemployersattorneys.com >> >> >> >> Orange County Office >> >> 4121 Westerly Place, Suite 101 >> >> Newport Beach, California 92660 >> >> T: (949) 752-0101 >> >> F: (949) 257-4756 >> >> M: (949) 466-7238 >> >> >> >> Beverly Hills Office >> >> 9107 Wilshire Boulevard, Suite 450 >> >> Beverly Hills, California 90210 >> >> T: (310) 461-3561 >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf Of James Weisberg >> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 10:01 AM >> To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' >> Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel >> >> Hi Folks: >> >> >> >> Anyone on the lists have experience or knowledge regarding the ADA >> and suits >> against air carriers for violations available for quick consult? >> Thanks. >> >> >> >> James W. Weisberg, Esq. >> >> Law Office of J. William Weisberg >> >> 299 South Patencio Road #3 >> >> Palm Springs, California 92262 >> >> V: 916.425.1010 >> >> F: 916.374.7667 >> >> E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com >> >> Admitted in Wisconsin >> >> Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil >> Rights >> Advocacy for Children with Diabetes >> >> This message contains information which may be confidential and >> privileged. >> Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the >> addressee), >> you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any >> information >> contained in this message. If you have received this message in >> error, >> please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from >> your >> system. >> >> This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client >> relationship >> nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William >> Weisberg >> expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information >> in >> accordance with this disclaimer. >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for >> blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rthomas%40rjtla > wfi >> rm.com >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stiehm.law%40ju > no.com >> > > ____________________________________________________________ > Hotel > Hotel pics, info and virtual tours. Click here to book a hotel online. > http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/c?cp=ewJKbyZ61QloDsW_i_oQ_wAAJ1BdRO > y9vkzpR6E_Fj7jZTbnAAYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAATRAAAAAA= > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jimi-law%40dc.rr.c > om > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4652 (20091201) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4652 (20091201) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4653 (20091201) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4655 (20091202) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4655 (20091202) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in sightbb.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.426 / Virus Database: 270.14.90/2540 - Release Date: 12/02/09 07:33:00 _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jimi-law%40dc.rr.c om __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4656 (20091202) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4656 (20091202) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4656 (20091202) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniverse08%40gma il.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jimi-law%40dc.rr.c om __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4656 (20091202) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4656 (20091202) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4656 (20091202) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rthomas%40rjtlawfi rm.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jimi-law%40dc.rr.c om __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4656 (20091202) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4656 (20091202) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4656 (20091202) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com From jimi-law at dc.rr.com Thu Dec 3 01:36:19 2009 From: jimi-law at dc.rr.com (James Weisberg) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 17:36:19 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel In-Reply-To: <000b01ca73b1$c2409b20$6601a8c0@server> References: <20091201.125747.428.71023@mailpop05.vgs.untd.com> <93D426D90E0F47678A7E578E71609E06@screnci.local><027601ca7393$4693d280$d3bb7780$@com><003B92E643764A4EBC61041B985FF563@screnci.local> <000b01ca73b1$c2409b20$6601a8c0@server> Message-ID: USAir James W. Weisberg, Esq. Law Office of J. William Weisberg 299 South Patencio Road #3 Palm Springs, California 92262 V: 916.425.1010 F: 916.374.7667 E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com Admitted in Wisconsin Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil Rights Advocacy for Children with Diabetes This message contains information which may be confidential and privileged. Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from your system. This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client relationship nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William Weisberg expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in accordance with this disclaimer. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Dennis Clark Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 4:44 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel Hi James, Which airline was this? Thanks, Dennis ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Weisberg" To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 3:08 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > In retrospect it's actually kind of funny although at the time it wasn't. > I > travel with a Guide Dog. So, as it was discussed in this thread, I made > advance arrangements to be seated in the "bulkhead" seat which affords > more > foot space so the dog can be in a position whereby she is not entirely on > my > feet nor the feet of the person next to me. No problem. When I get to > the > airport to check in I get assistance to the gate since the dog has yet to > learn to read much to my consternation. When I get to the gate I check in > and inform the attendant about the Guide Dog and confirm the placement in > the bulkhead seat. At this time I also inquire if the plane is full, > sometimes it is not, as in this instance. I inform the attendant they may > wish to juggle the passengers around and leave the seat next to me empty > so > they do not have a paying passenger with a dog on their legs for the > entire > trip. Never had a problem when put in these terms. I also inform them > the > window seat is necessary to keep the dog from sticking into the isle. So > a > window, bulkhead seat with and empty seat next to me is ideal for me, the > dog, and the passenger who would otherwise be seated next to me. > > Get on the plane and in my window bulk head seat which has been assigned > to > me along with leaving the seat next to me empty which was arranged at the > gate. I am traveling with a cat in a container which I have paid to bring > on the plane and immediately after taking my seat I place the cat > container > in the seat next to me to get "situated." As soon as I am seated I am > confronted by a stew who says I will have to change seats to another row; > non bulkhead. I think it was the cat container b/c the rules I believe > are > it has to be placed under the seat in front of you and a bulkhead seat has > no seat in front of it so . . . On my travels the other way with the cat > six months earlier the container was taken and moved to an appropriate > place > on the plane to the entertainment of the other passengers. Anyways, I > politely inform the stew I cannot move to another row and attempt to > explain > my particular circumstances which make this so. He interrupts me and > starts > to berate me, and here comes the funny part, he actually says to me, "we > have disabled passengers who have paid for these seats (the two next to > me)." Keep in mind I am sitting there with a dog in harness that says > "Guide Dogs for the Blind." This guy is a real genius. I just tell him > after that to het his supervisor. The sup shows and gives me the same > routine stating there is an entire empty row in the rear of the plane > (where > of course only I would be inconvenienced without a place for MY feet). So > instead of moving the passengers across the isle in the bulkhead row to > the > empty row of seats and allowing the other disabled passengers to take the > bulk head across the row from me they instead stuck a nice old woman and > her > daughter next to me (nobody disabled) and this nice woman took it in > stride > with grace and dealt with a dog on her feet for four plus hours. > > The humiliation comes from, if not obvious, having my disability pointed > out > to all on the plane who hadn't already noticed in a demeaning manner > (which > would not have occurred but for the disability)thereafter followed up by > their non accommodating my request to me indicates indifference to the > needs > of those similarly situated as I when traveling. Seems like the airline I > refer is in need of some modification to their training. I think I may > help > them out toward that end. > > James W. Weisberg, Esq. > > Law Office of J. William Weisberg > > 299 South Patencio Road #3 > > Palm Springs, California 92262 > > V: 916.425.1010 > > F: 916.374.7667 > > E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com > > Admitted in Wisconsin > > Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil Rights > Advocacy for Children with Diabetes > > This message contains information which may be confidential and > privileged. > Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), > you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information > contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, > please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from your > system. > > This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client > relationship > nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William > Weisberg > expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in > accordance with this disclaimer. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of WB > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 1:06 PM > To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > > Well, exactly how wer you marginalized is what the question is I think. > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of James Weisberg > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 2:40 PM > To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > > being marginalized because of something (my case disability)in front of a > plane full of passengers is humiliating. No? > > James W. Weisberg, Esq. > > Law Office of J. William Weisberg > > 299 South Patencio Road #3 > > Palm Springs, California 92262 > > V: 916.425.1010 > > F: 916.374.7667 > > E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com > > Admitted in Wisconsin > > Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil Rights > Advocacy for Children with Diabetes > > This message contains information which may be confidential and > privileged. > Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), > you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information > contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, > please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from your > system. > > This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client > relationship > nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William > Weisberg > expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in > accordance with this disclaimer. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 11:19 AM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > > In your opinion, how were you humiliated? > Steve > Steve > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "James Weisberg" > To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 1:01 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > > >> As the original poster of this thread I wanted to point out the reason >> for >> my inquiry was not related to accommodations but rather being publicly >> humiliated by air carrier staff (stew) which of course is a common >> carrier >> and that's a big "no no." Since the humiliation was based upon the >> presence >> of a guide dog the ADA first came to mind. >> >> >> >> Finally, Ben you rock dude!! >> >> >> James W. Weisberg, Esq. >> >> Law Office of J. William Weisberg >> >> 299 South Patencio Road #3 >> >> Palm Springs, California 92262 >> >> V: 916.425.1010 >> >> F: 916.374.7667 >> >> E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com >> >> Admitted in Wisconsin >> >> Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil Rights >> Advocacy for Children with Diabetes >> >> This message contains information which may be confidential and >> privileged. >> Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the >> addressee), >> you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any >> information >> contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, >> please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from your >> system. >> >> This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client >> relationship >> nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William >> Weisberg >> expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in >> accordance with this disclaimer. >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf Of stiehm.law >> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 12:58 PM >> To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> Cc: blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel >> >> In addition to the airlines, I have recently become curious as to what if >> any, accommodations for the TSA makes with respect to disabled people >> going through security and being picked up by somebody at the gate at the >> terminal at the other end of the flight. For example, do they permit a >> blind person who is traveling alone to be accompanied through security, >> down to the airline check-in counter at the gate by a non-ticketed >> person. >> >> At the other end, is a non-ticketed person permitted through security to >> go to the gate to meet a blind person flying alone? >> >> If TSA does not provide for such accommodations do the airlines take it >> on themselves to provide this service? >> >> Has anybody had any experience in this regard? Is the accommodation, if >> any, voluntary on the part of the TSA and/or the airlines or is it >> governed by regulation? >> >> Patrick H. Stiehm >> Stiehm Law Office >> Alexandria, VA 22309 >> 703-360-1089 (Voice) >> 703-935-8266 (Fax) >> >> >> >> Tue, 1 Dec 2009 11:30:37 -0800 "Russell J. Thomas, Jr." >> writes: >>> Off the top of my head, and without any new research, the only case >>> I >>> remember is a case challenging the accessibility of airline websites >>> with >>> respect to attempting to make reservations and ordering tickets on >>> line. >>> >>> I also think that there are regulations on the subject, especially >>> dealing >>> with how disabled passengers are to be treated (or perhaps on some >>> occasions >>> mistreated). >>> >>> I often thought it would be a good idea for the NFB to put together >>> a short >>> guide book concerning travel, including air travel, based upon >>> experiences >>> of NFB members, to be used as a reference guide for blind people who >>> use air >>> travel. Certainly things have changed since 911--some changes for >>> the good, >>> and others not so good. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Respectfully, >>> >>> >>> >>> Russell J. Thomas, Jr. >>> >>> THOMAS & ASSOCIATES >>> >>> www.californiaemployersattorneys.com >>> >>> >>> >>> Orange County Office >>> >>> 4121 Westerly Place, Suite 101 >>> >>> Newport Beach, California 92660 >>> >>> T: (949) 752-0101 >>> >>> F: (949) 257-4756 >>> >>> M: (949) 466-7238 >>> >>> >>> >>> Beverly Hills Office >>> >>> 9107 Wilshire Boulevard, Suite 450 >>> >>> Beverly Hills, California 90210 >>> >>> T: (310) 461-3561 >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>> Behalf Of James Weisberg >>> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 10:01 AM >>> To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' >>> Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel >>> >>> Hi Folks: >>> >>> >>> >>> Anyone on the lists have experience or knowledge regarding the ADA >>> and suits >>> against air carriers for violations available for quick consult? >>> Thanks. >>> >>> >>> >>> James W. Weisberg, Esq. >>> >>> Law Office of J. William Weisberg >>> >>> 299 South Patencio Road #3 >>> >>> Palm Springs, California 92262 >>> >>> V: 916.425.1010 >>> >>> F: 916.374.7667 >>> >>> E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com >>> >>> Admitted in Wisconsin >>> >>> Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil >>> Rights >>> Advocacy for Children with Diabetes >>> >>> This message contains information which may be confidential and >>> privileged. >>> Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the >>> addressee), >>> you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any >>> information >>> contained in this message. If you have received this message in >>> error, >>> please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from >>> your >>> system. >>> >>> This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client >>> relationship >>> nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William >>> Weisberg >>> expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information >>> in >>> accordance with this disclaimer. >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> blindlaw: >>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rthomas%40rjtla >> wfi >>> rm.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for blindlaw: >>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stiehm.law%40ju >> no.com >>> >> >> ____________________________________________________________ >> Hotel >> Hotel pics, info and virtual tours. Click here to book a hotel online. >> > http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/c?cp=ewJKbyZ61QloDsW_i_oQ_wAAJ1BdRO >> y9vkzpR6E_Fj7jZTbnAAYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAATRAAAAAA= >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jimi-law%40dc.rr.c >> om >> >> __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus >> signature >> database 4652 (20091201) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus >> signature >> database 4652 (20091201) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus >> signature >> database 4653 (20091201) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus >> signature >> database 4655 (20091202) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus >> signature >> database 4655 (20091202) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in > sightbb.com > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.426 / Virus Database: 270.14.90/2540 - Release Date: 12/02/09 > 07:33:00 > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jimi-law%40dc.rr.c > om > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4656 (20091202) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4656 (20091202) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4656 (20091202) __________ > >The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniverse08%40gma > il.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jimi-law%40dc.rr.c > om > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4656 (20091202) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4656 (20091202) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4656 (20091202) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dennisgclark%40sbc global.net _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jimi-law%40dc.rr.c om __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4656 (20091202) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4656 (20091202) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4656 (20091202) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com From mruniverse08 at gmail.com Thu Dec 3 01:58:02 2009 From: mruniverse08 at gmail.com (WB) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 19:58:02 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel In-Reply-To: <939B98E432004FC4BA69464FA4D211B1@screnci.local> References: <20091201.125747.428.71023@mailpop05.vgs.untd.com> <93D426D90E0F47678A7E578E71609E06@screnci.local> <027601ca7393$4693d280$d3bb7780$@com><003B92E643764A4EBC61041B985FF563@screnci.local> <02cc01ca73a5$2c438120$84ca8360$@com> <939B98E432004FC4BA69464FA4D211B1@screnci.local> Message-ID: <030f01ca73bc$0c6741e0$2535c5a0$@com> If you're continually having these problems, maybe try going to the powers that be of the airline...not simply a supervisor. Maybe the airline you're using isn't aware of what's going on...especially if they don't have blind travelers on a regular basis. I know that may sound like an excuse but the average person does not know. I know you mentioned advocating for yourself. The more efficient way may be just dealing with airline executives. Then that problem may happen less for you or others. Just a thought on my part. Have a great night. This was an interesting read. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of James Weisberg Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 7:28 PM To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel This incident was NOTHING. With my first dog I was asked after taking my seat if my dog had a "license" to be on the plane. Of course I knew this was absurd. The stew in this particular case was Asian and it was apparent to me (still had some vision at the time) she had some cultural issues going on. Anyways, same situation; I ask to speak with the supervisor who comes over and backs up his staff. I tell him to blow off (keep in mind I am litigating in civil court all the time). A short while passes when several people obviously from the airline ask me to exit my seat (which by the way was a bulkhead seat, i.e., in front of all the passengers)and come with them. They removed me from the plane and took me with my Guide Dog out into the breezeway where the airline biggie took out a manual and found a regulation to show me indicating if I was asked for identification the service animal was indeed a service animal I was required to produce it. Unfortunately, once again the staff was untrained and after producing the "card" issued me by Guide Dogs was let back on the plane to my seat. Asked for a license but only really needed to show proof of the fact the dog was a service animal. Pathetic. Didn't sue then but vowed I wouldn't be pushed around in the future. James W. Weisberg, Esq. Law Office of J. William Weisberg 299 South Patencio Road #3 Palm Springs, California 92262 V: 916.425.1010 F: 916.374.7667 E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com Admitted in Wisconsin Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil Rights Advocacy for Children with Diabetes This message contains information which may be confidential and privileged. Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from your system. This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client relationship nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William Weisberg expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in accordance with this disclaimer. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of WB Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 3:14 PM To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel After reading this detail, the earlier e-mails you sent now make sense to me. That's very sad that those attendants were not in line with whatever training they received. I'm sure they had to have had some and from what you say, it doesn't seem like they put any of it into practice. Has the airline powers that be turned their noses up to your requests for information on their training program or requests for some type of being made whole? I'm curious as I've never experienced anything to the level of which you speak. Thanks for sharing. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of James Weisberg Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 5:09 PM To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel In retrospect it's actually kind of funny although at the time it wasn't. I travel with a Guide Dog. So, as it was discussed in this thread, I made advance arrangements to be seated in the "bulkhead" seat which affords more foot space so the dog can be in a position whereby she is not entirely on my feet nor the feet of the person next to me. No problem. When I get to the airport to check in I get assistance to the gate since the dog has yet to learn to read much to my consternation. When I get to the gate I check in and inform the attendant about the Guide Dog and confirm the placement in the bulkhead seat. At this time I also inquire if the plane is full, sometimes it is not, as in this instance. I inform the attendant they may wish to juggle the passengers around and leave the seat next to me empty so they do not have a paying passenger with a dog on their legs for the entire trip. Never had a problem when put in these terms. I also inform them the window seat is necessary to keep the dog from sticking into the isle. So a window, bulkhead seat with and empty seat next to me is ideal for me, the dog, and the passenger who would otherwise be seated next to me. Get on the plane and in my window bulk head seat which has been assigned to me along with leaving the seat next to me empty which was arranged at the gate. I am traveling with a cat in a container which I have paid to bring on the plane and immediately after taking my seat I place the cat container in the seat next to me to get "situated." As soon as I am seated I am confronted by a stew who says I will have to change seats to another row; non bulkhead. I think it was the cat container b/c the rules I believe are it has to be placed under the seat in front of you and a bulkhead seat has no seat in front of it so . . . On my travels the other way with the cat six months earlier the container was taken and moved to an appropriate place on the plane to the entertainment of the other passengers. Anyways, I politely inform the stew I cannot move to another row and attempt to explain my particular circumstances which make this so. He interrupts me and starts to berate me, and here comes the funny part, he actually says to me, "we have disabled passengers who have paid for these seats (the two next to me)." Keep in mind I am sitting there with a dog in harness that says "Guide Dogs for the Blind." This guy is a real genius. I just tell him after that to het his supervisor. The sup shows and gives me the same routine stating there is an entire empty row in the rear of the plane (where of course only I would be inconvenienced without a place for MY feet). So instead of moving the passengers across the isle in the bulkhead row to the empty row of seats and allowing the other disabled passengers to take the bulk head across the row from me they instead stuck a nice old woman and her daughter next to me (nobody disabled) and this nice woman took it in stride with grace and dealt with a dog on her feet for four plus hours. The humiliation comes from, if not obvious, having my disability pointed out to all on the plane who hadn't already noticed in a demeaning manner (which would not have occurred but for the disability)thereafter followed up by their non accommodating my request to me indicates indifference to the needs of those similarly situated as I when traveling. Seems like the airline I refer is in need of some modification to their training. I think I may help them out toward that end. James W. Weisberg, Esq. Law Office of J. William Weisberg 299 South Patencio Road #3 Palm Springs, California 92262 V: 916.425.1010 F: 916.374.7667 E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com Admitted in Wisconsin Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil Rights Advocacy for Children with Diabetes This message contains information which may be confidential and privileged. Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from your system. This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client relationship nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William Weisberg expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in accordance with this disclaimer. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of WB Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 1:06 PM To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel Well, exactly how wer you marginalized is what the question is I think. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of James Weisberg Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 2:40 PM To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel being marginalized because of something (my case disability)in front of a plane full of passengers is humiliating. No? James W. Weisberg, Esq. Law Office of J. William Weisberg 299 South Patencio Road #3 Palm Springs, California 92262 V: 916.425.1010 F: 916.374.7667 E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com Admitted in Wisconsin Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil Rights Advocacy for Children with Diabetes This message contains information which may be confidential and privileged. Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from your system. This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client relationship nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William Weisberg expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in accordance with this disclaimer. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 11:19 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel In your opinion, how were you humiliated? Steve Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Weisberg" To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 1:01 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > As the original poster of this thread I wanted to point out the reason for > my inquiry was not related to accommodations but rather being publicly > humiliated by air carrier staff (stew) which of course is a common carrier > and that's a big "no no." Since the humiliation was based upon the > presence > of a guide dog the ADA first came to mind. > > > > Finally, Ben you rock dude!! > > > James W. Weisberg, Esq. > > Law Office of J. William Weisberg > > 299 South Patencio Road #3 > > Palm Springs, California 92262 > > V: 916.425.1010 > > F: 916.374.7667 > > E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com > > Admitted in Wisconsin > > Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil Rights > Advocacy for Children with Diabetes > > This message contains information which may be confidential and > privileged. > Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), > you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information > contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, > please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from your > system. > > This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client > relationship > nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William > Weisberg > expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in > accordance with this disclaimer. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of stiehm.law > Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 12:58 PM > To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org > Cc: blindlaw at nfbnet.org > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > > In addition to the airlines, I have recently become curious as to what if > any, accommodations for the TSA makes with respect to disabled people > going through security and being picked up by somebody at the gate at the > terminal at the other end of the flight. For example, do they permit a > blind person who is traveling alone to be accompanied through security, > down to the airline check-in counter at the gate by a non-ticketed > person. > > At the other end, is a non-ticketed person permitted through security to > go to the gate to meet a blind person flying alone? > > If TSA does not provide for such accommodations do the airlines take it > on themselves to provide this service? > > Has anybody had any experience in this regard? Is the accommodation, if > any, voluntary on the part of the TSA and/or the airlines or is it > governed by regulation? > > Patrick H. Stiehm > Stiehm Law Office > Alexandria, VA 22309 > 703-360-1089 (Voice) > 703-935-8266 (Fax) > > > > Tue, 1 Dec 2009 11:30:37 -0800 "Russell J. Thomas, Jr." > writes: >> Off the top of my head, and without any new research, the only case >> I >> remember is a case challenging the accessibility of airline websites >> with >> respect to attempting to make reservations and ordering tickets on >> line. >> >> I also think that there are regulations on the subject, especially >> dealing >> with how disabled passengers are to be treated (or perhaps on some >> occasions >> mistreated). >> >> I often thought it would be a good idea for the NFB to put together >> a short >> guide book concerning travel, including air travel, based upon >> experiences >> of NFB members, to be used as a reference guide for blind people who >> use air >> travel. Certainly things have changed since 911--some changes for >> the good, >> and others not so good. >> >> >> >> >> Respectfully, >> >> >> >> Russell J. Thomas, Jr. >> >> THOMAS & ASSOCIATES >> >> www.californiaemployersattorneys.com >> >> >> >> Orange County Office >> >> 4121 Westerly Place, Suite 101 >> >> Newport Beach, California 92660 >> >> T: (949) 752-0101 >> >> F: (949) 257-4756 >> >> M: (949) 466-7238 >> >> >> >> Beverly Hills Office >> >> 9107 Wilshire Boulevard, Suite 450 >> >> Beverly Hills, California 90210 >> >> T: (310) 461-3561 >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf Of James Weisberg >> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 10:01 AM >> To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' >> Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel >> >> Hi Folks: >> >> >> >> Anyone on the lists have experience or knowledge regarding the ADA >> and suits >> against air carriers for violations available for quick consult? >> Thanks. >> >> >> >> James W. Weisberg, Esq. >> >> Law Office of J. William Weisberg >> >> 299 South Patencio Road #3 >> >> Palm Springs, California 92262 >> >> V: 916.425.1010 >> >> F: 916.374.7667 >> >> E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com >> >> Admitted in Wisconsin >> >> Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil >> Rights >> Advocacy for Children with Diabetes >> >> This message contains information which may be confidential and >> privileged. >> Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the >> addressee), >> you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any >> information >> contained in this message. If you have received this message in >> error, >> please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from >> your >> system. >> >> This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client >> relationship >> nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William >> Weisberg >> expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information >> in >> accordance with this disclaimer. >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for >> blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rthomas%40rjtla > wfi >> rm.com >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stiehm.law%40ju > no.com >> > > ____________________________________________________________ > Hotel > Hotel pics, info and virtual tours. Click here to book a hotel online. > http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/c?cp=ewJKbyZ61QloDsW_i_oQ_wAAJ1BdRO > y9vkzpR6E_Fj7jZTbnAAYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAATRAAAAAA= > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jimi-law%40dc.rr.c > om > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4652 (20091201) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4652 (20091201) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4653 (20091201) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4655 (20091202) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4655 (20091202) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in sightbb.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.426 / Virus Database: 270.14.90/2540 - Release Date: 12/02/09 07:33:00 _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jimi-law%40dc.rr.c om __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4656 (20091202) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4656 (20091202) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4656 (20091202) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniverse08%40gma il.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jimi-law%40dc.rr.c om __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4656 (20091202) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4656 (20091202) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4656 (20091202) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniverse08%40gma il.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jimi-law%40dc.rr.c om __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4656 (20091202) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4656 (20091202) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4656 (20091202) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniverse08%40gma il.com From stevep.deeley at insightbb.com Thu Dec 3 02:26:32 2009 From: stevep.deeley at insightbb.com (Steve P. Deeley) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 21:26:32 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel In-Reply-To: <939B98E432004FC4BA69464FA4D211B1@screnci.local> References: <20091201.125747.428.71023@mailpop05.vgs.untd.com> <93D426D90E0F47678A7E578E71609E06@screnci.local> <027601ca7393$4693d280$d3bb7780$@com> <003B92E643764A4EBC61041B985FF563@screnci.local> <02cc01ca73a5$2c438120$84ca8360$@com> <939B98E432004FC4BA69464FA4D211B1@screnci.local> Message-ID: <5D5CF0C688C44497AF90C7D727DC263A@StevePC> Yeah, I would talk with the executives of that particular airline and let them know that if you can't come to some of agreement, you will litigate. Maybe some free trips would be nice or, at least, an apology!! Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Weisberg" To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 8:28 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > This incident was NOTHING. With my first dog I was asked after taking my > seat if my dog had a "license" to be on the plane. Of course I knew this > was absurd. The stew in this particular case was Asian and it was > apparent > to me (still had some vision at the time) she had some cultural issues > going > on. Anyways, same situation; I ask to speak with the supervisor who > comes > over and backs up his staff. I tell him to blow off (keep in mind I am > litigating in civil court all the time). A short while passes when > several > people obviously from the airline ask me to exit my seat (which by the way > was a bulkhead seat, i.e., in front of all the passengers)and come with > them. They removed me from the plane and took me with my Guide Dog out > into > the breezeway where the airline biggie took out a manual and found a > regulation to show me indicating if I was asked for identification the > service animal was indeed a service animal I was required to produce it. > Unfortunately, once again the staff was untrained and after producing the > "card" issued me by Guide Dogs was let back on the plane to my seat. > Asked > for a license but only really needed to show proof of the fact the dog was > a > service animal. Pathetic. Didn't sue then but vowed I wouldn't be pushed > around in the future. > > James W. Weisberg, Esq. > > Law Office of J. William Weisberg > > 299 South Patencio Road #3 > > Palm Springs, California 92262 > > V: 916.425.1010 > > F: 916.374.7667 > > E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com > > Admitted in Wisconsin > > Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil Rights > Advocacy for Children with Diabetes > > This message contains information which may be confidential and > privileged. > Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), > you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information > contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, > please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from your > system. > > This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client > relationship > nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William > Weisberg > expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in > accordance with this disclaimer. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of WB > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 3:14 PM > To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > > After reading this detail, the earlier e-mails you sent now make sense to > me. > > That's very sad that those attendants were not in line with whatever > training they received. I'm sure they had to have had some and from what > you say, it doesn't seem like they put any of it into practice. > > Has the airline powers that be turned their noses up to your requests for > information on their training program or requests for some type of being > made whole? > > I'm curious as I've never experienced anything to the level of which you > speak. > > Thanks for sharing. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of James Weisberg > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 5:09 PM > To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > > In retrospect it's actually kind of funny although at the time it wasn't. > I > travel with a Guide Dog. So, as it was discussed in this thread, I made > advance arrangements to be seated in the "bulkhead" seat which affords > more > foot space so the dog can be in a position whereby she is not entirely on > my > feet nor the feet of the person next to me. No problem. When I get to > the > airport to check in I get assistance to the gate since the dog has yet to > learn to read much to my consternation. When I get to the gate I check in > and inform the attendant about the Guide Dog and confirm the placement in > the bulkhead seat. At this time I also inquire if the plane is full, > sometimes it is not, as in this instance. I inform the attendant they may > wish to juggle the passengers around and leave the seat next to me empty > so > they do not have a paying passenger with a dog on their legs for the > entire > trip. Never had a problem when put in these terms. I also inform them > the > window seat is necessary to keep the dog from sticking into the isle. So > a > window, bulkhead seat with and empty seat next to me is ideal for me, the > dog, and the passenger who would otherwise be seated next to me. > > Get on the plane and in my window bulk head seat which has been assigned > to > me along with leaving the seat next to me empty which was arranged at the > gate. I am traveling with a cat in a container which I have paid to bring > on the plane and immediately after taking my seat I place the cat > container > in the seat next to me to get "situated." As soon as I am seated I am > confronted by a stew who says I will have to change seats to another row; > non bulkhead. I think it was the cat container b/c the rules I believe > are > it has to be placed under the seat in front of you and a bulkhead seat has > no seat in front of it so . . . On my travels the other way with the cat > six months earlier the container was taken and moved to an appropriate > place > on the plane to the entertainment of the other passengers. Anyways, I > politely inform the stew I cannot move to another row and attempt to > explain > my particular circumstances which make this so. He interrupts me and > starts > to berate me, and here comes the funny part, he actually says to me, "we > have disabled passengers who have paid for these seats (the two next to > me)." Keep in mind I am sitting there with a dog in harness that says > "Guide Dogs for the Blind." This guy is a real genius. I just tell him > after that to het his supervisor. The sup shows and gives me the same > routine stating there is an entire empty row in the rear of the plane > (where > of course only I would be inconvenienced without a place for MY feet). So > instead of moving the passengers across the isle in the bulkhead row to > the > empty row of seats and allowing the other disabled passengers to take the > bulk head across the row from me they instead stuck a nice old woman and > her > daughter next to me (nobody disabled) and this nice woman took it in > stride > with grace and dealt with a dog on her feet for four plus hours. > > The humiliation comes from, if not obvious, having my disability pointed > out > to all on the plane who hadn't already noticed in a demeaning manner > (which > would not have occurred but for the disability)thereafter followed up by > their non accommodating my request to me indicates indifference to the > needs > of those similarly situated as I when traveling. Seems like the airline I > refer is in need of some modification to their training. I think I may > help > them out toward that end. > > James W. Weisberg, Esq. > > Law Office of J. William Weisberg > > 299 South Patencio Road #3 > > Palm Springs, California 92262 > > V: 916.425.1010 > > F: 916.374.7667 > > E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com > > Admitted in Wisconsin > > Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil Rights > Advocacy for Children with Diabetes > > This message contains information which may be confidential and > privileged. > Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), > you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information > contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, > please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from your > system. > > This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client > relationship > nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William > Weisberg > expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in > accordance with this disclaimer. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of WB > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 1:06 PM > To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > > Well, exactly how wer you marginalized is what the question is I think. > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of James Weisberg > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 2:40 PM > To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > > being marginalized because of something (my case disability)in front of a > plane full of passengers is humiliating. No? > > James W. Weisberg, Esq. > > Law Office of J. William Weisberg > > 299 South Patencio Road #3 > > Palm Springs, California 92262 > > V: 916.425.1010 > > F: 916.374.7667 > > E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com > > Admitted in Wisconsin > > Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil Rights > Advocacy for Children with Diabetes > > This message contains information which may be confidential and > privileged. > Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), > you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information > contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, > please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from your > system. > > This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client > relationship > nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William > Weisberg > expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in > accordance with this disclaimer. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 11:19 AM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > > In your opinion, how were you humiliated? > Steve > Steve > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "James Weisberg" > To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 1:01 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > > >> As the original poster of this thread I wanted to point out the reason >> for >> my inquiry was not related to accommodations but rather being publicly >> humiliated by air carrier staff (stew) which of course is a common >> carrier >> and that's a big "no no." Since the humiliation was based upon the >> presence >> of a guide dog the ADA first came to mind. >> >> >> >> Finally, Ben you rock dude!! >> >> >> James W. Weisberg, Esq. >> >> Law Office of J. William Weisberg >> >> 299 South Patencio Road #3 >> >> Palm Springs, California 92262 >> >> V: 916.425.1010 >> >> F: 916.374.7667 >> >> E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com >> >> Admitted in Wisconsin >> >> Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil Rights >> Advocacy for Children with Diabetes >> >> This message contains information which may be confidential and >> privileged. >> Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the >> addressee), >> you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any >> information >> contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, >> please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from your >> system. >> >> This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client >> relationship >> nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William >> Weisberg >> expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in >> accordance with this disclaimer. >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf Of stiehm.law >> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 12:58 PM >> To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> Cc: blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel >> >> In addition to the airlines, I have recently become curious as to what if >> any, accommodations for the TSA makes with respect to disabled people >> going through security and being picked up by somebody at the gate at the >> terminal at the other end of the flight. For example, do they permit a >> blind person who is traveling alone to be accompanied through security, >> down to the airline check-in counter at the gate by a non-ticketed >> person. >> >> At the other end, is a non-ticketed person permitted through security to >> go to the gate to meet a blind person flying alone? >> >> If TSA does not provide for such accommodations do the airlines take it >> on themselves to provide this service? >> >> Has anybody had any experience in this regard? Is the accommodation, if >> any, voluntary on the part of the TSA and/or the airlines or is it >> governed by regulation? >> >> Patrick H. Stiehm >> Stiehm Law Office >> Alexandria, VA 22309 >> 703-360-1089 (Voice) >> 703-935-8266 (Fax) >> >> >> >> Tue, 1 Dec 2009 11:30:37 -0800 "Russell J. Thomas, Jr." >> writes: >>> Off the top of my head, and without any new research, the only case >>> I >>> remember is a case challenging the accessibility of airline websites >>> with >>> respect to attempting to make reservations and ordering tickets on >>> line. >>> >>> I also think that there are regulations on the subject, especially >>> dealing >>> with how disabled passengers are to be treated (or perhaps on some >>> occasions >>> mistreated). >>> >>> I often thought it would be a good idea for the NFB to put together >>> a short >>> guide book concerning travel, including air travel, based upon >>> experiences >>> of NFB members, to be used as a reference guide for blind people who >>> use air >>> travel. Certainly things have changed since 911--some changes for >>> the good, >>> and others not so good. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Respectfully, >>> >>> >>> >>> Russell J. Thomas, Jr. >>> >>> THOMAS & ASSOCIATES >>> >>> www.californiaemployersattorneys.com >>> >>> >>> >>> Orange County Office >>> >>> 4121 Westerly Place, Suite 101 >>> >>> Newport Beach, California 92660 >>> >>> T: (949) 752-0101 >>> >>> F: (949) 257-4756 >>> >>> M: (949) 466-7238 >>> >>> >>> >>> Beverly Hills Office >>> >>> 9107 Wilshire Boulevard, Suite 450 >>> >>> Beverly Hills, California 90210 >>> >>> T: (310) 461-3561 >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>> Behalf Of James Weisberg >>> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 10:01 AM >>> To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' >>> Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel >>> >>> Hi Folks: >>> >>> >>> >>> Anyone on the lists have experience or knowledge regarding the ADA >>> and suits >>> against air carriers for violations available for quick consult? >>> Thanks. >>> >>> >>> >>> James W. Weisberg, Esq. >>> >>> Law Office of J. William Weisberg >>> >>> 299 South Patencio Road #3 >>> >>> Palm Springs, California 92262 >>> >>> V: 916.425.1010 >>> >>> F: 916.374.7667 >>> >>> E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com >>> >>> Admitted in Wisconsin >>> >>> Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil >>> Rights >>> Advocacy for Children with Diabetes >>> >>> This message contains information which may be confidential and >>> privileged. >>> Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the >>> addressee), >>> you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any >>> information >>> contained in this message. If you have received this message in >>> error, >>> please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from >>> your >>> system. >>> >>> This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client >>> relationship >>> nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William >>> Weisberg >>> expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information >>> in >>> accordance with this disclaimer. >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> blindlaw: >>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rthomas%40rjtla >> wfi >>> rm.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for blindlaw: >>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stiehm.law%40ju >> no.com >>> >> >> ____________________________________________________________ >> Hotel >> Hotel pics, info and virtual tours. Click here to book a hotel online. >> > http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/c?cp=ewJKbyZ61QloDsW_i_oQ_wAAJ1BdRO >> y9vkzpR6E_Fj7jZTbnAAYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAATRAAAAAA= >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jimi-law%40dc.rr.c >> om >> >> __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus >> signature >> database 4652 (20091201) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus >> signature >> database 4652 (20091201) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus >> signature >> database 4653 (20091201) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus >> signature >> database 4655 (20091202) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus >> signature >> database 4655 (20091202) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in > sightbb.com > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.426 / Virus Database: 270.14.90/2540 - Release Date: 12/02/09 > 07:33:00 > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jimi-law%40dc.rr.c > om > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4656 (20091202) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4656 (20091202) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4656 (20091202) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniverse08%40gma > il.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jimi-law%40dc.rr.c > om > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4656 (20091202) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4656 (20091202) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4656 (20091202) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniverse08%40gma > il.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jimi-law%40dc.rr.c > om > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4656 (20091202) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4656 (20091202) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4656 (20091202) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.426 / Virus Database: 270.14.91/2541 - Release Date: 12/02/09 19:43:00 From jimi-law at dc.rr.com Thu Dec 3 03:01:21 2009 From: jimi-law at dc.rr.com (James Weisberg) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 19:01:21 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel In-Reply-To: <5D5CF0C688C44497AF90C7D727DC263A@StevePC> References: <20091201.125747.428.71023@mailpop05.vgs.untd.com><93D426D90E0F47678A7E578E71609E06@screnci.local><027601ca7393$4693d280$d3bb7780$@com><003B92E643764A4EBC61041B985FF563@screnci.local><02cc01ca73a5$2c438120$84ca8360$@com><939B98E432004FC4BA69464FA4D211B1@screnci.local> <5D5CF0C688C44497AF90C7D727DC263A@StevePC> Message-ID: yeah, free trips on another airline! James W. Weisberg, Esq. Law Office of J. William Weisberg 299 South Patencio Road #3 Palm Springs, California 92262 V: 916.425.1010 F: 916.374.7667 E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com Admitted in Wisconsin Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil Rights Advocacy for Children with Diabetes This message contains information which may be confidential and privileged. Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from your system. This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client relationship nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William Weisberg expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in accordance with this disclaimer. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 6:27 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel Yeah, I would talk with the executives of that particular airline and let them know that if you can't come to some of agreement, you will litigate. Maybe some free trips would be nice or, at least, an apology!! Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Weisberg" To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 8:28 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > This incident was NOTHING. With my first dog I was asked after taking my > seat if my dog had a "license" to be on the plane. Of course I knew this > was absurd. The stew in this particular case was Asian and it was > apparent > to me (still had some vision at the time) she had some cultural issues > going > on. Anyways, same situation; I ask to speak with the supervisor who > comes > over and backs up his staff. I tell him to blow off (keep in mind I am > litigating in civil court all the time). A short while passes when > several > people obviously from the airline ask me to exit my seat (which by the way > was a bulkhead seat, i.e., in front of all the passengers)and come with > them. They removed me from the plane and took me with my Guide Dog out > into > the breezeway where the airline biggie took out a manual and found a > regulation to show me indicating if I was asked for identification the > service animal was indeed a service animal I was required to produce it. > Unfortunately, once again the staff was untrained and after producing the > "card" issued me by Guide Dogs was let back on the plane to my seat. > Asked > for a license but only really needed to show proof of the fact the dog was > a > service animal. Pathetic. Didn't sue then but vowed I wouldn't be pushed > around in the future. > > James W. Weisberg, Esq. > > Law Office of J. William Weisberg > > 299 South Patencio Road #3 > > Palm Springs, California 92262 > > V: 916.425.1010 > > F: 916.374.7667 > > E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com > > Admitted in Wisconsin > > Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil Rights > Advocacy for Children with Diabetes > > This message contains information which may be confidential and > privileged. > Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), > you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information > contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, > please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from your > system. > > This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client > relationship > nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William > Weisberg > expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in > accordance with this disclaimer. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of WB > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 3:14 PM > To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > > After reading this detail, the earlier e-mails you sent now make sense to > me. > > That's very sad that those attendants were not in line with whatever > training they received. I'm sure they had to have had some and from what > you say, it doesn't seem like they put any of it into practice. > > Has the airline powers that be turned their noses up to your requests for > information on their training program or requests for some type of being > made whole? > > I'm curious as I've never experienced anything to the level of which you > speak. > > Thanks for sharing. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of James Weisberg > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 5:09 PM > To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > > In retrospect it's actually kind of funny although at the time it wasn't. > I > travel with a Guide Dog. So, as it was discussed in this thread, I made > advance arrangements to be seated in the "bulkhead" seat which affords > more > foot space so the dog can be in a position whereby she is not entirely on > my > feet nor the feet of the person next to me. No problem. When I get to > the > airport to check in I get assistance to the gate since the dog has yet to > learn to read much to my consternation. When I get to the gate I check in > and inform the attendant about the Guide Dog and confirm the placement in > the bulkhead seat. At this time I also inquire if the plane is full, > sometimes it is not, as in this instance. I inform the attendant they may > wish to juggle the passengers around and leave the seat next to me empty > so > they do not have a paying passenger with a dog on their legs for the > entire > trip. Never had a problem when put in these terms. I also inform them > the > window seat is necessary to keep the dog from sticking into the isle. So > a > window, bulkhead seat with and empty seat next to me is ideal for me, the > dog, and the passenger who would otherwise be seated next to me. > > Get on the plane and in my window bulk head seat which has been assigned > to > me along with leaving the seat next to me empty which was arranged at the > gate. I am traveling with a cat in a container which I have paid to bring > on the plane and immediately after taking my seat I place the cat > container > in the seat next to me to get "situated." As soon as I am seated I am > confronted by a stew who says I will have to change seats to another row; > non bulkhead. I think it was the cat container b/c the rules I believe > are > it has to be placed under the seat in front of you and a bulkhead seat has > no seat in front of it so . . . On my travels the other way with the cat > six months earlier the container was taken and moved to an appropriate > place > on the plane to the entertainment of the other passengers. Anyways, I > politely inform the stew I cannot move to another row and attempt to > explain > my particular circumstances which make this so. He interrupts me and > starts > to berate me, and here comes the funny part, he actually says to me, "we > have disabled passengers who have paid for these seats (the two next to > me)." Keep in mind I am sitting there with a dog in harness that says > "Guide Dogs for the Blind." This guy is a real genius. I just tell him > after that to het his supervisor. The sup shows and gives me the same > routine stating there is an entire empty row in the rear of the plane > (where > of course only I would be inconvenienced without a place for MY feet). So > instead of moving the passengers across the isle in the bulkhead row to > the > empty row of seats and allowing the other disabled passengers to take the > bulk head across the row from me they instead stuck a nice old woman and > her > daughter next to me (nobody disabled) and this nice woman took it in > stride > with grace and dealt with a dog on her feet for four plus hours. > > The humiliation comes from, if not obvious, having my disability pointed > out > to all on the plane who hadn't already noticed in a demeaning manner > (which > would not have occurred but for the disability)thereafter followed up by > their non accommodating my request to me indicates indifference to the > needs > of those similarly situated as I when traveling. Seems like the airline I > refer is in need of some modification to their training. I think I may > help > them out toward that end. > > James W. Weisberg, Esq. > > Law Office of J. William Weisberg > > 299 South Patencio Road #3 > > Palm Springs, California 92262 > > V: 916.425.1010 > > F: 916.374.7667 > > E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com > > Admitted in Wisconsin > > Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil Rights > Advocacy for Children with Diabetes > > This message contains information which may be confidential and > privileged. > Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), > you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information > contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, > please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from your > system. > > This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client > relationship > nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William > Weisberg > expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in > accordance with this disclaimer. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of WB > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 1:06 PM > To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > > Well, exactly how wer you marginalized is what the question is I think. > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of James Weisberg > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 2:40 PM > To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > > being marginalized because of something (my case disability)in front of a > plane full of passengers is humiliating. No? > > James W. Weisberg, Esq. > > Law Office of J. William Weisberg > > 299 South Patencio Road #3 > > Palm Springs, California 92262 > > V: 916.425.1010 > > F: 916.374.7667 > > E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com > > Admitted in Wisconsin > > Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil Rights > Advocacy for Children with Diabetes > > This message contains information which may be confidential and > privileged. > Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), > you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information > contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, > please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from your > system. > > This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client > relationship > nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William > Weisberg > expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in > accordance with this disclaimer. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 11:19 AM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > > In your opinion, how were you humiliated? > Steve > Steve > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "James Weisberg" > To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 1:01 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > > >> As the original poster of this thread I wanted to point out the reason >> for >> my inquiry was not related to accommodations but rather being publicly >> humiliated by air carrier staff (stew) which of course is a common >> carrier >> and that's a big "no no." Since the humiliation was based upon the >> presence >> of a guide dog the ADA first came to mind. >> >> >> >> Finally, Ben you rock dude!! >> >> >> James W. Weisberg, Esq. >> >> Law Office of J. William Weisberg >> >> 299 South Patencio Road #3 >> >> Palm Springs, California 92262 >> >> V: 916.425.1010 >> >> F: 916.374.7667 >> >> E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com >> >> Admitted in Wisconsin >> >> Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil Rights >> Advocacy for Children with Diabetes >> >> This message contains information which may be confidential and >> privileged. >> Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the >> addressee), >> you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any >> information >> contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, >> please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from your >> system. >> >> This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client >> relationship >> nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William >> Weisberg >> expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in >> accordance with this disclaimer. >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf Of stiehm.law >> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 12:58 PM >> To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> Cc: blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel >> >> In addition to the airlines, I have recently become curious as to what if >> any, accommodations for the TSA makes with respect to disabled people >> going through security and being picked up by somebody at the gate at the >> terminal at the other end of the flight. For example, do they permit a >> blind person who is traveling alone to be accompanied through security, >> down to the airline check-in counter at the gate by a non-ticketed >> person. >> >> At the other end, is a non-ticketed person permitted through security to >> go to the gate to meet a blind person flying alone? >> >> If TSA does not provide for such accommodations do the airlines take it >> on themselves to provide this service? >> >> Has anybody had any experience in this regard? Is the accommodation, if >> any, voluntary on the part of the TSA and/or the airlines or is it >> governed by regulation? >> >> Patrick H. Stiehm >> Stiehm Law Office >> Alexandria, VA 22309 >> 703-360-1089 (Voice) >> 703-935-8266 (Fax) >> >> >> >> Tue, 1 Dec 2009 11:30:37 -0800 "Russell J. Thomas, Jr." >> writes: >>> Off the top of my head, and without any new research, the only case >>> I >>> remember is a case challenging the accessibility of airline websites >>> with >>> respect to attempting to make reservations and ordering tickets on >>> line. >>> >>> I also think that there are regulations on the subject, especially >>> dealing >>> with how disabled passengers are to be treated (or perhaps on some >>> occasions >>> mistreated). >>> >>> I often thought it would be a good idea for the NFB to put together >>> a short >>> guide book concerning travel, including air travel, based upon >>> experiences >>> of NFB members, to be used as a reference guide for blind people who >>> use air >>> travel. Certainly things have changed since 911--some changes for >>> the good, >>> and others not so good. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Respectfully, >>> >>> >>> >>> Russell J. Thomas, Jr. >>> >>> THOMAS & ASSOCIATES >>> >>> www.californiaemployersattorneys.com >>> >>> >>> >>> Orange County Office >>> >>> 4121 Westerly Place, Suite 101 >>> >>> Newport Beach, California 92660 >>> >>> T: (949) 752-0101 >>> >>> F: (949) 257-4756 >>> >>> M: (949) 466-7238 >>> >>> >>> >>> Beverly Hills Office >>> >>> 9107 Wilshire Boulevard, Suite 450 >>> >>> Beverly Hills, California 90210 >>> >>> T: (310) 461-3561 >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>> Behalf Of James Weisberg >>> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 10:01 AM >>> To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' >>> Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel >>> >>> Hi Folks: >>> >>> >>> >>> Anyone on the lists have experience or knowledge regarding the ADA >>> and suits >>> against air carriers for violations available for quick consult? >>> Thanks. >>> >>> >>> >>> James W. Weisberg, Esq. >>> >>> Law Office of J. William Weisberg >>> >>> 299 South Patencio Road #3 >>> >>> Palm Springs, California 92262 >>> >>> V: 916.425.1010 >>> >>> F: 916.374.7667 >>> >>> E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com >>> >>> Admitted in Wisconsin >>> >>> Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil >>> Rights >>> Advocacy for Children with Diabetes >>> >>> This message contains information which may be confidential and >>> privileged. >>> Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the >>> addressee), >>> you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any >>> information >>> contained in this message. If you have received this message in >>> error, >>> please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from >>> your >>> system. >>> >>> This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client >>> relationship >>> nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William >>> Weisberg >>> expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information >>> in >>> accordance with this disclaimer. >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> blindlaw: >>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rthomas%40rjtla >> wfi >>> rm.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for blindlaw: >>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stiehm.law%40ju >> no.com >>> >> >> ____________________________________________________________ >> Hotel >> Hotel pics, info and virtual tours. Click here to book a hotel online. >> > http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/c?cp=ewJKbyZ61QloDsW_i_oQ_wAAJ1BdRO >> y9vkzpR6E_Fj7jZTbnAAYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAATRAAAAAA= >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jimi-law%40dc.rr.c >> om >> >> __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus >> signature >> database 4652 (20091201) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus >> signature >> database 4652 (20091201) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus >> signature >> database 4653 (20091201) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus >> signature >> database 4655 (20091202) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus >> signature >> database 4655 (20091202) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in > sightbb.com > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.426 / Virus Database: 270.14.90/2540 - Release Date: 12/02/09 > 07:33:00 > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jimi-law%40dc.rr.c > om > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4656 (20091202) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4656 (20091202) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4656 (20091202) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniverse08%40gma > il.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jimi-law%40dc.rr.c > om > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4656 (20091202) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4656 (20091202) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4656 (20091202) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniverse08%40gma > il.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jimi-law%40dc.rr.c > om > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4656 (20091202) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4656 (20091202) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4656 (20091202) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in sightbb.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.426 / Virus Database: 270.14.91/2541 - Release Date: 12/02/09 19:43:00 _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jimi-law%40dc.rr.c om __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4656 (20091202) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4656 (20091202) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4656 (20091202) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com From b75205 at gmail.com Thu Dec 3 03:44:35 2009 From: b75205 at gmail.com (James Pepper) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 21:44:35 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] state computer system case In-Reply-To: <021f01ca7370$c03b8ce0$40b2a6a0$@com> References: <66954123AD474303BCB4E25041063AC8@D3J75Z91> <20091202023833.rwayne1@nyc.rr.com> <021f01ca7370$c03b8ce0$40b2a6a0$@com> Message-ID: Yes it was Peoplesoft and you are right it is a pain for anyone! I know the state of Texas got the message and they were instituting procedures to check out every accessibility issue since the incident. James From b75205 at gmail.com Thu Dec 3 04:29:56 2009 From: b75205 at gmail.com (James Pepper) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 22:29:56 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] Congrads Ben on passing the bar In-Reply-To: References: <20091201.125747.428.71023@mailpop05.vgs.untd.com> <85DE4073835C47F28015FC74C33ED11D@valtd> <65B1F3660CE04287A5CB73EECD6595A3@none8a46117901> <75A7E3060F8F4054BD7ECE1CB762B66A@D3J75Z91> Message-ID: Ben on the forms. The problem with forms is they use fonts that are too small for OCR software to decode and so you are always going to have problems with scanning them. What I do not understand is how can these documents be legal if you the reciever are made responsible to try to interpret what the sender sent to you. Why is it your responsibility? The smaller fonts are actually not the full font but a cut down version of a font and so they are not valid and the OCR software gets messed up. It is best to rebuild the form to be accessible and I can do that so you can read all of the other content on the page besides what you have written. Actually I am trying to figure out and I could use some help on this from the members of this list, I am trying to figure out which companies to approach with my new format? I developed this after regaining my eyesight and I can lay out PDF files to be accessible where all of the content can be read and you only need a text to speech engine to read the content. It works with JAWS, Window Eyes and Zoom Text and I just had AFB Tech test it, they are the technology division of the American Foundation for the Blind and they called it a "Raising the Floor" technology. So if you all have insights into who can use this, that would be helpful. My format is backwards compatible so people who do not have the latest version of screen readers can access content. And the same document used for the blind can be used for everyone else. I can lay out the LSAT, and I can do this in multiple languages and this process can be encrypted so I can lay out accessible e-books in PDF format capable of being read with Adobe Reader using free screen readers. The font size problem is significant because most government forms use fonts that are only half size, 6 points or 8 points, they are cut down so much that you can barely recognize the font with your eyes let alone with OCR. This is because there isn't enough information being given to distinguish the characters. If you noticed for example you may get a lot of the letter "L" being read to you, that is because the OCR software is not picking up the letters correctly, it is actually breaking up the strokes you make to write the letter. You see this problem when you scan text that is in a box. The sides of the boxes become "L's" and you hear a lot of underscores. The solution is to make the form an electronic form from the start. And the reason you do not have that in PDF format is because Adobe sells this as part of their Livecycle server systems which are very expensive and only the government and big corporations can afford it. So for everyone else you have the situation where you can fill out the form and then you have to scan it to record a copy of it for your records. If you want to change anything you will have to start over again with a new form. You cannot save those files because that function is not enabled in ordinary PDF forms. So you should be demanding that all government offices, agencies and colleges make their content electronic for accessibility so you can use digital signatures, and you can save these files after you sign them so you have a copy on hand to access in the future. And I can lay out these forms so you can access all of the document with free screen readers. Sincerely, James G. Pepper From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Thu Dec 3 07:07:51 2009 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 23:07:51 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel In-Reply-To: References: <20091201.125747.428.71023@mailpop05.vgs.untd.com><85DE4073835C47F28015FC74C33ED11D@valtd><310AF3C9782240EE9AA780A4AD12CEAB@spike> Message-ID: <19C9E95F558047C2943BC90D7FF97592@spike> That's good to know as I think that Carnival was one of the cruise lines that had issues regarding blind travelers several years ago. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc." To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 2:40 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > Chuck, I sell cruises amongst other things I do; mostly on Carnival; they > have been extremely good with all my passengers whether disabled or not. > > I have three groups going out in July and August of 2010, narrowly missed > a chance to get a group out to Alaska. > > Sincerely, > Olusegun > Denver, Colorado > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net From b75205 at gmail.com Thu Dec 3 09:01:06 2009 From: b75205 at gmail.com (James Pepper) Date: Thu, 3 Dec 2009 03:01:06 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel In-Reply-To: <19C9E95F558047C2943BC90D7FF97592@spike> References: <20091201.125747.428.71023@mailpop05.vgs.untd.com> <85DE4073835C47F28015FC74C33ED11D@valtd> <310AF3C9782240EE9AA780A4AD12CEAB@spike> <19C9E95F558047C2943BC90D7FF97592@spike> Message-ID: I always get a skycap to wheel me through Detroit airport because they have this underground walkway between terminals and it has a light show that will induce a migraine in me and would affect anyone who is flash sensitive. You all need to work on this because it is just a terrible thing for those who do not expect it, and you can't go around it, you have to walk this gauntlet. So I have to move through the airport with my hands over my eyes as we go through that gauntlet. I believe I mentioned this when you had the convention in Detroit. James Pepper From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Thu Dec 3 10:25:01 2009 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Thu, 3 Dec 2009 02:25:01 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel In-Reply-To: <939B98E432004FC4BA69464FA4D211B1@screnci.local> References: <20091201.125747.428.71023@mailpop05.vgs.untd.com> <93D426D90E0F47678A7E578E71609E06@screnci.local> <027601ca7393$4693d280$d3bb7780$@com><003B92E643764A4EBC61041B985FF563@screnci.local><02cc01ca73a5$2c438120$84ca8360$@com> <939B98E432004FC4BA69464FA4D211B1@screnci.local> Message-ID: <4961A1C332E64B71811DB7E0451C9EAA@spike> litigating these issues is the only they will learn as it sets a precedent. Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal 1237 P Street Fresno ca 93721 559-266-9237 ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Weisberg" To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 5:28 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > This incident was NOTHING. With my first dog I was asked after taking my > seat if my dog had a "license" to be on the plane. Of course I knew this > was absurd. The stew in this particular case was Asian and it was > apparent > to me (still had some vision at the time) she had some cultural issues > going > on. Anyways, same situation; I ask to speak with the supervisor who > comes > over and backs up his staff. I tell him to blow off (keep in mind I am > litigating in civil court all the time). A short while passes when > several > people obviously from the airline ask me to exit my seat (which by the way > was a bulkhead seat, i.e., in front of all the passengers)and come with > them. They removed me from the plane and took me with my Guide Dog out > into > the breezeway where the airline biggie took out a manual and found a > regulation to show me indicating if I was asked for identification the > service animal was indeed a service animal I was required to produce it. > Unfortunately, once again the staff was untrained and after producing the > "card" issued me by Guide Dogs was let back on the plane to my seat. > Asked > for a license but only really needed to show proof of the fact the dog was > a > service animal. Pathetic. Didn't sue then but vowed I wouldn't be pushed > around in the future. > > James W. Weisberg, Esq. > > Law Office of J. William Weisberg > > 299 South Patencio Road #3 > > Palm Springs, California 92262 > > V: 916.425.1010 > > F: 916.374.7667 > > E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com > > Admitted in Wisconsin > > Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil Rights > Advocacy for Children with Diabetes > > This message contains information which may be confidential and > privileged. > Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), > you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information > contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, > please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from your > system. > > This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client > relationship > nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William > Weisberg > expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in > accordance with this disclaimer. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of WB > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 3:14 PM > To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > > After reading this detail, the earlier e-mails you sent now make sense to > me. > > That's very sad that those attendants were not in line with whatever > training they received. I'm sure they had to have had some and from what > you say, it doesn't seem like they put any of it into practice. > > Has the airline powers that be turned their noses up to your requests for > information on their training program or requests for some type of being > made whole? > > I'm curious as I've never experienced anything to the level of which you > speak. > > Thanks for sharing. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of James Weisberg > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 5:09 PM > To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > > In retrospect it's actually kind of funny although at the time it wasn't. > I > travel with a Guide Dog. So, as it was discussed in this thread, I made > advance arrangements to be seated in the "bulkhead" seat which affords > more > foot space so the dog can be in a position whereby she is not entirely on > my > feet nor the feet of the person next to me. No problem. When I get to > the > airport to check in I get assistance to the gate since the dog has yet to > learn to read much to my consternation. When I get to the gate I check in > and inform the attendant about the Guide Dog and confirm the placement in > the bulkhead seat. At this time I also inquire if the plane is full, > sometimes it is not, as in this instance. I inform the attendant they may > wish to juggle the passengers around and leave the seat next to me empty > so > they do not have a paying passenger with a dog on their legs for the > entire > trip. Never had a problem when put in these terms. I also inform them > the > window seat is necessary to keep the dog from sticking into the isle. So > a > window, bulkhead seat with and empty seat next to me is ideal for me, the > dog, and the passenger who would otherwise be seated next to me. > > Get on the plane and in my window bulk head seat which has been assigned > to > me along with leaving the seat next to me empty which was arranged at the > gate. I am traveling with a cat in a container which I have paid to bring > on the plane and immediately after taking my seat I place the cat > container > in the seat next to me to get "situated." As soon as I am seated I am > confronted by a stew who says I will have to change seats to another row; > non bulkhead. I think it was the cat container b/c the rules I believe > are > it has to be placed under the seat in front of you and a bulkhead seat has > no seat in front of it so . . . On my travels the other way with the cat > six months earlier the container was taken and moved to an appropriate > place > on the plane to the entertainment of the other passengers. Anyways, I > politely inform the stew I cannot move to another row and attempt to > explain > my particular circumstances which make this so. He interrupts me and > starts > to berate me, and here comes the funny part, he actually says to me, "we > have disabled passengers who have paid for these seats (the two next to > me)." Keep in mind I am sitting there with a dog in harness that says > "Guide Dogs for the Blind." This guy is a real genius. I just tell him > after that to het his supervisor. The sup shows and gives me the same > routine stating there is an entire empty row in the rear of the plane > (where > of course only I would be inconvenienced without a place for MY feet). So > instead of moving the passengers across the isle in the bulkhead row to > the > empty row of seats and allowing the other disabled passengers to take the > bulk head across the row from me they instead stuck a nice old woman and > her > daughter next to me (nobody disabled) and this nice woman took it in > stride > with grace and dealt with a dog on her feet for four plus hours. > > The humiliation comes from, if not obvious, having my disability pointed > out > to all on the plane who hadn't already noticed in a demeaning manner > (which > would not have occurred but for the disability)thereafter followed up by > their non accommodating my request to me indicates indifference to the > needs > of those similarly situated as I when traveling. Seems like the airline I > refer is in need of some modification to their training. I think I may > help > them out toward that end. > > James W. Weisberg, Esq. > > Law Office of J. William Weisberg > > 299 South Patencio Road #3 > > Palm Springs, California 92262 > > V: 916.425.1010 > > F: 916.374.7667 > > E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com > > Admitted in Wisconsin > > Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil Rights > Advocacy for Children with Diabetes > > This message contains information which may be confidential and > privileged. > Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), > you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information > contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, > please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from your > system. > > This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client > relationship > nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William > Weisberg > expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in > accordance with this disclaimer. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of WB > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 1:06 PM > To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > > Well, exactly how wer you marginalized is what the question is I think. > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of James Weisberg > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 2:40 PM > To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > > being marginalized because of something (my case disability)in front of a > plane full of passengers is humiliating. No? > > James W. Weisberg, Esq. > > Law Office of J. William Weisberg > > 299 South Patencio Road #3 > > Palm Springs, California 92262 > > V: 916.425.1010 > > F: 916.374.7667 > > E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com > > Admitted in Wisconsin > > Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil Rights > Advocacy for Children with Diabetes > > This message contains information which may be confidential and > privileged. > Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), > you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information > contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, > please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from your > system. > > This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client > relationship > nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William > Weisberg > expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in > accordance with this disclaimer. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 11:19 AM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > > In your opinion, how were you humiliated? > Steve > Steve > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "James Weisberg" > To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 1:01 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > > >> As the original poster of this thread I wanted to point out the reason >> for >> my inquiry was not related to accommodations but rather being publicly >> humiliated by air carrier staff (stew) which of course is a common >> carrier >> and that's a big "no no." Since the humiliation was based upon the >> presence >> of a guide dog the ADA first came to mind. >> >> >> >> Finally, Ben you rock dude!! >> >> >> James W. Weisberg, Esq. >> >> Law Office of J. William Weisberg >> >> 299 South Patencio Road #3 >> >> Palm Springs, California 92262 >> >> V: 916.425.1010 >> >> F: 916.374.7667 >> >> E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com >> >> Admitted in Wisconsin >> >> Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil Rights >> Advocacy for Children with Diabetes >> >> This message contains information which may be confidential and >> privileged. >> Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the >> addressee), >> you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any >> information >> contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, >> please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from your >> system. >> >> This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client >> relationship >> nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William >> Weisberg >> expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in >> accordance with this disclaimer. >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf Of stiehm.law >> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 12:58 PM >> To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> Cc: blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel >> >> In addition to the airlines, I have recently become curious as to what if >> any, accommodations for the TSA makes with respect to disabled people >> going through security and being picked up by somebody at the gate at the >> terminal at the other end of the flight. For example, do they permit a >> blind person who is traveling alone to be accompanied through security, >> down to the airline check-in counter at the gate by a non-ticketed >> person. >> >> At the other end, is a non-ticketed person permitted through security to >> go to the gate to meet a blind person flying alone? >> >> If TSA does not provide for such accommodations do the airlines take it >> on themselves to provide this service? >> >> Has anybody had any experience in this regard? Is the accommodation, if >> any, voluntary on the part of the TSA and/or the airlines or is it >> governed by regulation? >> >> Patrick H. Stiehm >> Stiehm Law Office >> Alexandria, VA 22309 >> 703-360-1089 (Voice) >> 703-935-8266 (Fax) >> >> >> >> Tue, 1 Dec 2009 11:30:37 -0800 "Russell J. Thomas, Jr." >> writes: >>> Off the top of my head, and without any new research, the only case >>> I >>> remember is a case challenging the accessibility of airline websites >>> with >>> respect to attempting to make reservations and ordering tickets on >>> line. >>> >>> I also think that there are regulations on the subject, especially >>> dealing >>> with how disabled passengers are to be treated (or perhaps on some >>> occasions >>> mistreated). >>> >>> I often thought it would be a good idea for the NFB to put together >>> a short >>> guide book concerning travel, including air travel, based upon >>> experiences >>> of NFB members, to be used as a reference guide for blind people who >>> use air >>> travel. Certainly things have changed since 911--some changes for >>> the good, >>> and others not so good. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Respectfully, >>> >>> >>> >>> Russell J. Thomas, Jr. >>> >>> THOMAS & ASSOCIATES >>> >>> www.californiaemployersattorneys.com >>> >>> >>> >>> Orange County Office >>> >>> 4121 Westerly Place, Suite 101 >>> >>> Newport Beach, California 92660 >>> >>> T: (949) 752-0101 >>> >>> F: (949) 257-4756 >>> >>> M: (949) 466-7238 >>> >>> >>> >>> Beverly Hills Office >>> >>> 9107 Wilshire Boulevard, Suite 450 >>> >>> Beverly Hills, California 90210 >>> >>> T: (310) 461-3561 >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>> Behalf Of James Weisberg >>> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 10:01 AM >>> To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' >>> Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel >>> >>> Hi Folks: >>> >>> >>> >>> Anyone on the lists have experience or knowledge regarding the ADA >>> and suits >>> against air carriers for violations available for quick consult? >>> Thanks. >>> >>> >>> >>> James W. Weisberg, Esq. >>> >>> Law Office of J. William Weisberg >>> >>> 299 South Patencio Road #3 >>> >>> Palm Springs, California 92262 >>> >>> V: 916.425.1010 >>> >>> F: 916.374.7667 >>> >>> E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com >>> >>> Admitted in Wisconsin >>> >>> Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil >>> Rights >>> Advocacy for Children with Diabetes >>> >>> This message contains information which may be confidential and >>> privileged. >>> Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the >>> addressee), >>> you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any >>> information >>> contained in this message. If you have received this message in >>> error, >>> please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from >>> your >>> system. >>> >>> This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client >>> relationship >>> nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William >>> Weisberg >>> expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information >>> in >>> accordance with this disclaimer. >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> blindlaw: >>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rthomas%40rjtla >> wfi >>> rm.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for blindlaw: >>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stiehm.law%40ju >> no.com >>> >> >> ____________________________________________________________ >> Hotel >> Hotel pics, info and virtual tours. Click here to book a hotel online. >> > http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/c?cp=ewJKbyZ61QloDsW_i_oQ_wAAJ1BdRO >> y9vkzpR6E_Fj7jZTbnAAYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAATRAAAAAA= >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jimi-law%40dc.rr.c >> om >> >> __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus >> signature >> database 4652 (20091201) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus >> signature >> database 4652 (20091201) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus >> signature >> database 4653 (20091201) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus >> signature >> database 4655 (20091202) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus >> signature >> database 4655 (20091202) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in > sightbb.com > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.426 / Virus Database: 270.14.90/2540 - Release Date: 12/02/09 > 07:33:00 > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jimi-law%40dc.rr.c > om > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4656 (20091202) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4656 (20091202) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4656 (20091202) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniverse08%40gma > il.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jimi-law%40dc.rr.c > om > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4656 (20091202) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4656 (20091202) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4656 (20091202) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniverse08%40gma > il.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jimi-law%40dc.rr.c > om > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4656 (20091202) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4656 (20091202) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4656 (20091202) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net From jimi-law at dc.rr.com Thu Dec 3 10:40:51 2009 From: jimi-law at dc.rr.com (James Weisberg) Date: Thu, 3 Dec 2009 02:40:51 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel In-Reply-To: References: <20091201.125747.428.71023@mailpop05.vgs.untd.com><85DE4073835C47F28015FC74C33ED11D@valtd><310AF3C9782240EE9AA780A4AD12CEAB@spike><19C9E95F558047C2943BC90D7FF97592@spike> Message-ID: <8EB2FF1BE24A49EABE16A577652149D7@screnci.local> As a former escapee of Detroit. . . I mean product of the Detroit public school system (might go along way in explaining my lack of a HS Diploma -- another story) I'd have to surmise this was strategically planned. James W. Weisberg, Esq. Law Office of J. William Weisberg 299 South Patencio Road #3 Palm Springs, California 92262 V: 916.425.1010 F: 916.374.7667 E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com Admitted in Wisconsin Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil Rights Advocacy for Children with Diabetes This message contains information which may be confidential and privileged. Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from your system. This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client relationship nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William Weisberg expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in accordance with this disclaimer. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of James Pepper Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 1:01 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel I always get a skycap to wheel me through Detroit airport because they have this underground walkway between terminals and it has a light show that will induce a migraine in me and would affect anyone who is flash sensitive. You all need to work on this because it is just a terrible thing for those who do not expect it, and you can't go around it, you have to walk this gauntlet. So I have to move through the airport with my hands over my eyes as we go through that gauntlet. I believe I mentioned this when you had the convention in Detroit. James Pepper _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jimi-law%40dc.rr.c om __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4656 (20091202) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4656 (20091202) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4656 (20091202) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Thu Dec 3 11:26:19 2009 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Thu, 3 Dec 2009 03:26:19 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel In-Reply-To: References: <20091201.125747.428.71023@mailpop05.vgs.untd.com><85DE4073835C47F28015FC74C33ED11D@valtd><310AF3C9782240EE9AA780A4AD12CEAB@spike><19C9E95F558047C2943BC90D7FF97592@spike> Message-ID: <09B7AC0886A54DA68BC6900D4FA6EAB0@spike> That would make an interesting ADA complaint regarding public access, I would think. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Pepper" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 1:01 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel >I always get a skycap to wheel me through Detroit airport because they have > this underground walkway between terminals and it has a light show that > will > induce a migraine in me and would affect anyone who is flash sensitive. > You > all need to work on this because it is just a terrible thing for those who > do not expect it, and you can't go around it, you have to walk this > gauntlet. So I have to move through the airport with my hands over my eyes > as we go through that gauntlet. > > I believe I mentioned this when you had the convention in Detroit. > > James Pepper > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Thu Dec 3 11:32:48 2009 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Thu, 3 Dec 2009 03:32:48 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel In-Reply-To: <8EB2FF1BE24A49EABE16A577652149D7@screnci.local> References: <20091201.125747.428.71023@mailpop05.vgs.untd.com><85DE4073835C47F28015FC74C33ED11D@valtd><310AF3C9782240EE9AA780A4AD12CEAB@spike><19C9E95F558047C2943BC90D7FF97592@spike> <8EB2FF1BE24A49EABE16A577652149D7@screnci.local> Message-ID: <42FC529EB7E54EBF9404A453C5A09462@spike> I'm glad to know that I'm not the only escapee from Michigan on this list growing up in Grand Rapids and living in Ann Arbor for several years before moving to California in the mid-80's. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Weisberg" To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 2:40 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > As a former escapee of Detroit. . . I mean product of the Detroit public > school system (might go along way in explaining my lack of a HS > iploma -- > another story) I'd have to surmise this was strategically planned. > > James W. Weisberg, Esq. > > Law Office of J. William Weisberg > > 299 South Patencio Road #3 > > Palm Springs, California 92262 > > V: 916.425.1010 > > F: 916.374.7667 > > E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com > > Admitted in Wisconsin > > Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil Rights > Advocacy for Children with Diabetes > > This message contains information which may be confidential and > privileged. > Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), > you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information > contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, > please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from your > system. > > This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client > relationship > nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William > Weisberg > expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in > accordance with this disclaimer. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of James Pepper > Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 1:01 AM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > > I always get a skycap to wheel me through Detroit airport because they > have > this underground walkway between terminals and it has a light show that > will > induce a migraine in me and would affect anyone who is flash sensitive. > You > all need to work on this because it is just a terrible thing for those who > do not expect it, and you can't go around it, you have to walk this > gauntlet. So I have to move through the airport with my hands over my eyes > as we go through that gauntlet. > > I believe I mentioned this when you had the convention in Detroit. > > James Pepper > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jimi-law%40dc.rr.c > om > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4656 (20091202) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4656 (20091202) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4656 (20091202) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net From stevep.deeley at insightbb.com Thu Dec 3 12:32:18 2009 From: stevep.deeley at insightbb.com (Steve P. Deeley) Date: Thu, 3 Dec 2009 07:32:18 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel In-Reply-To: <19C9E95F558047C2943BC90D7FF97592@spike> References: <20091201.125747.428.71023@mailpop05.vgs.untd.com> <85DE4073835C47F28015FC74C33ED11D@valtd> <310AF3C9782240EE9AA780A4AD12CEAB@spike> <19C9E95F558047C2943BC90D7FF97592@spike> Message-ID: <79A12D04AC5E45CD85D66B3837E56F45@StevePC> These issues should be mediated prior to litigation. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 2:07 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > That's good to know as I think that Carnival was one of the cruise lines > that had issues regarding blind travelers several years ago. > Chuck > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc." > > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 2:40 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > > >> Chuck, I sell cruises amongst other things I do; mostly on Carnival; they >> have been extremely good with all my passengers whether disabled or not. >> >> I have three groups going out in July and August of 2010, narrowly missed >> a chance to get a group out to Alaska. >> >> Sincerely, >> Olusegun >> Denver, Colorado >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.426 / Virus Database: 270.14.91/2541 - Release Date: 12/02/09 19:43:00 From AZNOR99 at aol.com Thu Dec 3 13:55:58 2009 From: AZNOR99 at aol.com (AZNOR99 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 3 Dec 2009 08:55:58 EST Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel Message-ID: A couple of my blind friends and I are avid cruisers - we try to go at least once a year, and Carnival is our cruiseline of choice. In 2007, they refused to allow us to sign up for a scuba diving excursion because of our blindness - they said we'd be dangerous to other scuba divers. This was absurd for all the obvious reasons and because we're all strong swimmers and most of us are accomplished scuba divers. Carnival said that since they contract with local venders to provide the excursions, and since those venders aren't in the United States, then the ADA does not apply. We tried to educate the cruise line, and I think they got it. But the scuba diving contract holder did not and would not let us participate no matter what we said. I wish we'd have fought harder. That same year, we had a lot of trouble getting the onboard materials in Braille or electronic formatting. We followed up with Corporate, and by the time we arrived for our 2008 cruise, everything had been sorted out to our liking in terms of materials. They now will send you a CD with menus, guide books, and all the other material that's in the state room, and they'll either Braille out the daily newsletter or put it on a flash drive for you. In terms of excursions, we just always find an outside vender ourselves now. We can discuss blindness beforehand if we want, and we end up not feeling beholden to the cruiseline for our fun off-ship. And we save a lot of money in the process. My point is that I'm not sure if the cruiselines are all totally accessible now, but I think Carnival is doing a much better job then it used to do. Also, I have no idea if the contracting venders in the ports are discriminating against blind people - I bet they still are. Ronza In a message dated 12/3/2009 2:36:49 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, ckrugman at sbcglobal.net writes: That's good to know as I think that Carnival was one of the cruise lines that had issues regarding blind travelers several years ago. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc." To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 2:40 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > Chuck, I sell cruises amongst other things I do; mostly on Carnival; they > have been extremely good with all my passengers whether disabled or not. > > I have three groups going out in July and August of 2010, narrowly missed > a chance to get a group out to Alaska. > > Sincerely, > Olusegun > Denver, Colorado > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/aznor99%40aol.com From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Thu Dec 3 23:22:47 2009 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Thu, 3 Dec 2009 15:22:47 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel In-Reply-To: <79A12D04AC5E45CD85D66B3837E56F45@StevePC> References: <20091201.125747.428.71023@mailpop05.vgs.untd.com><85DE4073835C47F28015FC74C33ED11D@valtd><310AF3C9782240EE9AA780A4AD12CEAB@spike><19C9E95F558047C2943BC90D7FF97592@spike> <79A12D04AC5E45CD85D66B3837E56F45@StevePC> Message-ID: Courts generally require all issues to be mediated prior to being litigated or as part of the process. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. Deeley" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 4:32 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > These issues should be mediated prior to litigation. > Steve > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 2:07 AM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > > >> That's good to know as I think that Carnival was one of the cruise lines >> that had issues regarding blind travelers several years ago. >> Chuck >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc." >> >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 2:40 PM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel >> >> >>> Chuck, I sell cruises amongst other things I do; mostly on Carnival; >>> they >>> have been extremely good with all my passengers whether disabled or not. >>> >>> I have three groups going out in July and August of 2010, narrowly >>> missed >>> a chance to get a group out to Alaska. >>> >>> Sincerely, >>> Olusegun >>> Denver, Colorado >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.426 / Virus Database: 270.14.91/2541 - Release Date: 12/02/09 > 19:43:00 > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net From cdanielsen8 at aol.com Fri Dec 4 00:08:36 2009 From: cdanielsen8 at aol.com (Chris Danielsen) Date: Thu, 3 Dec 2009 19:08:36 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4AB1D9B2FD1142EC9CAFDEFD47ACA108@Scorpio13> Interesting observations about Carnival. When I went on the cruise that was organized by the NFB of Colorado in March, we had all of the Braille materials in our cabins. Our waiter was very nice about reading the menus each evening, even though he didn't speak English that well. I will definitely ask for the menus on CD next time. Also, I wasn't aware there was any way to get the daily newsletter, so I'll be sure to ask about that the next time I go. And I do intend to cruise again. When I was booking tours, the guy at the desk casually informed me that he would let the tour providers know that I was blind. This raised a red flag with me and I asked him why. He said it was to make sure that the providers could accommodate and that there would be no access issues. I explained that blind people have very few "access issues" and that he was giving the providers an opportunity to discriminate. I probed him a little on whether he thought there were certain things a blind guest couldn't do. He informed me that he had seen blind guests participate in all kinds of activities, I think he specifically mentioned cliff diving, and was not trying to discriminate. I let it go. None of the providers I did tours with gave me or any of the other NFB folks any problems, and I did not hear from other NFB friends about any problems. Of course, the tours I went on were not particularly strenuous; I am a wimp. I had some concerns about the dolphin encounter, but that went fine. In fact, the trainer even made a point of letting me and a friend touch the dolphin's teeth while he held her mouth open (they normally discourage folks from touching the mouth.) He didn't let us touch the nose or blowhole, which are off limits. I plan to try swimming with dolphins next time; the dolphin encounter is when you are on a shallow platform and the dolphin swims up to you. All of the Carnival folks were extremely friendly and I think they were trying to do the right thing. I came away with a mostly favorable impression of the company, although it still concerns me that they "flag" disabled guests even if they really are doing it only to make sure that the guest has a good experience. I am sure that some contractors do discriminate, and while Carnival is of course protecting itself, I wonder if they have a legal point. Other countries do not necessarily have the disability laws that we do in the USA, and once you are on shore at a foreign port of call I am not sure U.S. law would "reach" businesses there. It reaches foreign cruise lines only because their ships have ports of call in the U.S., if I understand the law correctly. Carnival could make a point of not contracting with vendors who discriminate, however, and that would make a difference. Chris -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of AZNOR99 at aol.com Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 8:56 AM To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel A couple of my blind friends and I are avid cruisers - we try to go at least once a year, and Carnival is our cruiseline of choice. In 2007, they refused to allow us to sign up for a scuba diving excursion because of our blindness - they said we'd be dangerous to other scuba divers. This was absurd for all the obvious reasons and because we're all strong swimmers and most of us are accomplished scuba divers. Carnival said that since they contract with local venders to provide the excursions, and since those venders aren't in the United States, then the ADA does not apply. We tried to educate the cruise line, and I think they got it. But the scuba diving contract holder did not and would not let us participate no matter what we said. I wish we'd have fought harder. That same year, we had a lot of trouble getting the onboard materials in Braille or electronic formatting. We followed up with Corporate, and by the time we arrived for our 2008 cruise, everything had been sorted out to our liking in terms of materials. They now will send you a CD with menus, guide books, and all the other material that's in the state room, and they'll either Braille out the daily newsletter or put it on a flash drive for you. In terms of excursions, we just always find an outside vender ourselves now. We can discuss blindness beforehand if we want, and we end up not feeling beholden to the cruiseline for our fun off-ship. And we save a lot of money in the process. My point is that I'm not sure if the cruiselines are all totally accessible now, but I think Carnival is doing a much better job then it used to do. Also, I have no idea if the contracting venders in the ports are discriminating against blind people - I bet they still are. Ronza In a message dated 12/3/2009 2:36:49 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, ckrugman at sbcglobal.net writes: That's good to know as I think that Carnival was one of the cruise lines that had issues regarding blind travelers several years ago. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc." To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 2:40 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > Chuck, I sell cruises amongst other things I do; mostly on Carnival; they > have been extremely good with all my passengers whether disabled or not. > > I have three groups going out in July and August of 2010, narrowly missed > a chance to get a group out to Alaska. > > Sincerely, > Olusegun > Denver, Colorado > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob al.net _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/aznor99%40aol.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4658 (20091203) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4659 (20091203) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From stevep.deeley at insightbb.com Fri Dec 4 00:51:34 2009 From: stevep.deeley at insightbb.com (Steve P. Deeley) Date: Thu, 3 Dec 2009 19:51:34 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel In-Reply-To: <4AB1D9B2FD1142EC9CAFDEFD47ACA108@Scorpio13> References: <4AB1D9B2FD1142EC9CAFDEFD47ACA108@Scorpio13> Message-ID: <4B8F57570DE6486A93743958EB603CAC@StevePC> That is very interesting. How did you navigate around an unfamiliar large ship? Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Danielsen" To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 7:08 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > Interesting observations about Carnival. When I went on the cruise that > was > organized by the NFB of Colorado in March, we had all of the Braille > materials in our cabins. Our waiter was very nice about reading the menus > each evening, even though he didn't speak English that well. I will > definitely ask for the menus on CD next time. Also, I wasn't aware there > was > any way to get the daily newsletter, so I'll be sure to ask about that the > next time I go. And I do intend to cruise again. When I was booking tours, > the guy at the desk casually informed me that he would let the tour > providers know that I was blind. This raised a red flag with me and I > asked > him why. He said it was to make sure that the providers could accommodate > and that there would be no access issues. I explained that blind people > have > very few "access issues" and that he was giving the providers an > opportunity > to discriminate. I probed him a little on whether he thought there were > certain things a blind guest couldn't do. He informed me that he had seen > blind guests participate in all kinds of activities, I think he > specifically > mentioned cliff diving, and was not trying to discriminate. I let it go. > None of the providers I did tours with gave me or any of the other NFB > folks > any problems, and I did not hear from other NFB friends about any > problems. > Of course, the tours I went on were not particularly strenuous; I am a > wimp. > I had some concerns about the dolphin encounter, but that went fine. In > fact, the trainer even made a point of letting me and a friend touch the > dolphin's teeth while he held her mouth open (they normally discourage > folks > from touching the mouth.) He didn't let us touch the nose or blowhole, > which > are off limits. I plan to try swimming with dolphins next time; the > dolphin > encounter is when you are on a shallow platform and the dolphin swims up > to > you. All of the Carnival folks were extremely friendly and I think they > were > trying to do the right thing. I came away with a mostly favorable > impression > of the company, although it still concerns me that they "flag" disabled > guests even if they really are doing it only to make sure that the guest > has > a good experience. I am sure that some contractors do discriminate, and > while Carnival is of course protecting itself, I wonder if they have a > legal > point. Other countries do not necessarily have the disability laws that we > do in the USA, and once you are on shore at a foreign port of call I am > not > sure U.S. law would "reach" businesses there. It reaches foreign cruise > lines only because their ships have ports of call in the U.S., if I > understand the law correctly. Carnival could make a point of not > contracting > with vendors who discriminate, however, and that would make a difference. > > Chris > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of AZNOR99 at aol.com > Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 8:56 AM > To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > > A couple of my blind friends and I are avid cruisers - we try to go at > least > once a year, and Carnival is our cruiseline of choice. In 2007, they > refused to allow us to sign up for a scuba diving excursion because of our > blindness - they said we'd be dangerous to other scuba divers. This was > absurd for all the obvious reasons and because we're all strong swimmers > and most of us are accomplished scuba divers. Carnival said that since > they contract with local venders to provide the excursions, and since > those > venders aren't in the United States, then the ADA does not apply. We > tried > to educate the cruise line, and I think they got it. But the scuba diving > contract holder did not and would not let us participate no matter what we > said. > I wish we'd have fought harder. > > That same year, we had a lot of trouble getting the onboard materials in > Braille or electronic formatting. We followed up with Corporate, and by > the time we arrived for our 2008 cruise, everything had been sorted out to > our liking in terms of materials. They now will send you a CD with menus, > guide books, and all the other material that's in the state room, and > they'll either Braille out the daily newsletter or put it on a flash drive > for you. > > In terms of excursions, we just always find an outside vender ourselves > now. > We can discuss blindness beforehand if we want, and we end up not feeling > beholden to the cruiseline for our fun off-ship. And we save a lot of > money in the process. > > My point is that I'm not sure if the cruiselines are all totally > accessible > now, but I think Carnival is doing a much better job then it used to do. > Also, I have no idea if the contracting venders in the ports are > discriminating against blind people - I bet they still are. > > Ronza > > > > In a message dated 12/3/2009 2:36:49 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, > ckrugman at sbcglobal.net writes: > > That's good to know as I think that Carnival was one of the cruise lines > that had issues regarding blind travelers several years ago. > Chuck > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc." > > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 2:40 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > > >> Chuck, I sell cruises amongst other things I do; mostly on Carnival; > they >> have been extremely good with all my passengers whether disabled or not. >> >> I have three groups going out in July and August of 2010, narrowly > missed >> a chance to get a group out to Alaska. >> >> Sincerely, >> Olusegun >> Denver, Colorado >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob > al.net > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/aznor99%40aol.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. > com > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature > database 4658 (20091203) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature > database 4659 (20091203) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.426 / Virus Database: 270.14.92/2543 - Release Date: 12/03/09 19:36:00 From stevep.deeley at insightbb.com Fri Dec 4 00:52:03 2009 From: stevep.deeley at insightbb.com (Steve P. Deeley) Date: Thu, 3 Dec 2009 19:52:03 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel In-Reply-To: References: <20091201.125747.428.71023@mailpop05.vgs.untd.com> <85DE4073835C47F28015FC74C33ED11D@valtd> <310AF3C9782240EE9AA780A4AD12CEAB@spike> <19C9E95F558047C2943BC90D7FF97592@spike> <79A12D04AC5E45CD85D66B3837E56F45@StevePC> Message-ID: <38794818698C44979350ED0A23FF344D@StevePC> good ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 6:22 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > Courts generally require all issues to be mediated prior to being > litigated > or as part of the process. > Chuck > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Steve P. Deeley" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 4:32 AM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > > >> These issues should be mediated prior to litigation. >> Steve >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 2:07 AM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel >> >> >>> That's good to know as I think that Carnival was one of the cruise lines >>> that had issues regarding blind travelers several years ago. >>> Chuck >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc." >>> >>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>> Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 2:40 PM >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel >>> >>> >>>> Chuck, I sell cruises amongst other things I do; mostly on Carnival; >>>> they >>>> have been extremely good with all my passengers whether disabled or >>>> not. >>>> >>>> I have three groups going out in July and August of 2010, narrowly >>>> missed >>>> a chance to get a group out to Alaska. >>>> >>>> Sincerely, >>>> Olusegun >>>> Denver, Colorado >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 8.5.426 / Virus Database: 270.14.91/2541 - Release Date: >> 12/02/09 >> 19:43:00 >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.426 / Virus Database: 270.14.92/2543 - Release Date: 12/03/09 19:36:00 From almomani at optonline.net Fri Dec 4 01:39:41 2009 From: almomani at optonline.net (Mudhaffer Al-Momani) Date: Thu, 03 Dec 2009 20:39:41 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel References: <20091201.125747.428.71023@mailpop05.vgs.untd.com> <85DE4073835C47F28015FC74C33ED11D@valtd> <310AF3C9782240EE9AA780A4AD12CEAB@spike> <19C9E95F558047C2943BC90D7FF97592@spike> <79A12D04AC5E45CD85D66B3837E56F45@StevePC> <38794818698C44979350ED0A23FF344D@StevePC> Message-ID: <1DD1F232DA1B41D8ABB164FF39CAB6D0@FJP7MG1> Hi All, I just want to say that just last week I went to New Zealand from New York and I took Qantas airlines. All I had to say is I am visually impaired and I need meet and assist and from the check desc in JFK to L A international and from L A to Auckland in NZ and 2 more planes locally in NZ so that is 4 airplanes each way I was treated like a king inside the airports and inside the planes and they helped me every step of the way both ways. I tell you guys and gals the service was unlike anything I have ever seen or heard or even imagined. they would come get me from inside the plane and did everything from security to check points to customes to getting my bags to even handing me to the people that were waiting for me, they never left my side for a second I am just amazed. I just wanted to share that with you all. Have happy holidays. Mudhaffer ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. Deeley" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 7:52 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > good > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 6:22 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > > >> Courts generally require all issues to be mediated prior to being >> litigated >> or as part of the process. >> Chuck >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Steve P. Deeley" >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 4:32 AM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel >> >> >>> These issues should be mediated prior to litigation. >>> Steve >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: >>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>> Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 2:07 AM >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel >>> >>> >>>> That's good to know as I think that Carnival was one of the cruise >>>> lines >>>> that had issues regarding blind travelers several years ago. >>>> Chuck >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc." >>>> >>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 2:40 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel >>>> >>>> >>>>> Chuck, I sell cruises amongst other things I do; mostly on Carnival; >>>>> they >>>>> have been extremely good with all my passengers whether disabled or >>>>> not. >>>>> >>>>> I have three groups going out in July and August of 2010, narrowly >>>>> missed >>>>> a chance to get a group out to Alaska. >>>>> >>>>> Sincerely, >>>>> Olusegun >>>>> Denver, Colorado >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> blindlaw: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com >>> >>> >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> >>> >>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>> Version: 8.5.426 / Virus Database: 270.14.91/2541 - Release Date: >>> 12/02/09 >>> 19:43:00 >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.426 / Virus Database: 270.14.92/2543 - Release Date: 12/03/09 > 19:36:00 > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/almomani%40optonline.net > From mildredrivera at yahoo.com Fri Dec 4 03:19:14 2009 From: mildredrivera at yahoo.com (Millie Rivera-Rau) Date: Thu, 3 Dec 2009 19:19:14 -0800 (PST) Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel / Canes In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <368035.91609.qm@web33006.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I have a question. Lately my long white cane has been taken from me after I get on the plane. Sometimes I can convince the personnel that I should be permitted to keep it but other times I am not successful. Is there something that I can site that would get through to them? Or, am I required to relinquish it? For some reason it has been a problem more in the last two years then ever before. I push it to a point just after making a scene. smile. The thing that really gets me is that they want to put it in an overhead bin and usually it falls out as soon as the bin is opened and hits someone on the head! Then the other passengers realize I was right. Any thoughts.   Millie   --- On Wed, 12/2/09, AZNOR99 at aol.com wrote: From: AZNOR99 at aol.com Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org Date: Wednesday, December 2, 2009, 12:24 PM Hello, This is an interesting subject.  TSA is generally not  responsible for providing a traveler with a guide as a passenger goes  through screening.  You can always request a Companion Pass from the  airline for someone to accompany you; however, it is at the discretion of the  airline as to whether or not they grant this request.  Most do grant the  Pass as long as you give them a valid reason, and most accept accompanying a  minor or passenger with a disability or elderly individual as a valid  reason.  You can request a Companion Pass from the airline at the time of  check-in if you bring someone with you to drop you off - you don't necessarily  have to let the airline know in advance that you plan to do this.  If you  want someone to meet you at the gate when you arrive though, you'll need to let  the airline know in advance.  This is because you won't actually be with  the person when they obtain the Companion Pass, so the airline can't verify that  they know you or that you'd want them to pick you up.  Companions are  subject to the same screening and security measures as passengers - valid State  or Federal ID, human and belonging scans, etc.  TSA does not have  jurisdiction over Companion Pass issuance - that is at the discretion of the  airlines - they are subject to the regs of the FAA. You can ask for a Guide at the airport as well.  Generally airlines  prefer you do this in advance, but you can certainly choose to make such a  request when you arrive at the airport or land at your destination.  If you  don't let them know you need someone in advance though, you might have to wait  longer for someone to arrive, as airlines try to have staff waiting for  passengers  about whom they know. We've all seen the line of wheel chairs  and uniformed staff waiting when we deplane?  Well, they're each usually  assigned to a particular person, and they usually know who that person is ahead  of time.  Airlines, and sometimes airports, are increasingly creating  "Passenger Assistance Departments," and escorting passengers is one of their  primary functions. There are some airports that utilize the airport police or other airport  staff as escorts rather than airline personnel.  Sometimes this is because  it is incredibly difficult to credential staff for all areas of an airport,  which such staff need to possess.  Sometimes it may be a small airport, and  it would be more efficient to assign escort responsibilities to one person for  all the airlines.  Or there might be other reasons.  However, TSOs - Transportation Security Officers) are trained in how to  interact with disabled passengers.  For example, if you place your cane on  the conveyer belt, a TSO may offer to position you prior to entering the human scanner and reach out to hold your hands to guide you forward.  Due to the nature of the scanning equipment, a passenger must not touch the scanning  machine - it will not function properly if anything comes into contact with it.  Some of us have had the experience of bumping the machine and setting it off in the past. If you run your cane through the baggage scanner and ask for it back to  take through the human scanner, you have to be very careful, once again, not to  tap the scanner walls with the cane - it will likely set the machine off.   Also, if your cane has metal - many of us use metal tips - then it may cause the  scanner to go off, necessitating the individual be referred to secondary  screening or wanding. I've personally had the experience of placing my cane on the baggage  scanning belt and walking toward the human scanner.  I walked through the  scanner very slowly and did not set it off.  However, I was referred to  secondary.  I always ask why I'm being referred to Secondary (I'm in the  business of wanting to know if I'm being discriminated against because of my  religion, national origin, or disability).  The answer I usually get (not  always though, and I've got some funny stories about other times) is "it's  random."  I conveyed to the TSO that I could not move to the secondary  screening area until someone retrieved my cane from the conveyer belt.  He  got it for me and asked, "Oh, is the reason you moved so slowly through the  scanner because you are blind?" I answered that it was, and he told me I was  free to go. I insisted on going to Secondary, and he said, "Well you don't  need to. Your behavior isn't suspicious. I just thought it was because I didn't  know you were being careful not to bump the machine since you couldn't see  well."  Part of their jobs as TSOs is to monitor suspicious behavior; part  of my job is to convey the difference between suspicious behavior and cultural  norms.  Needless to say I insisted on going to Secondary because I wanted  the chance to talk the issue through with the TSO. It was a teachable moment,  and I think he really got there could be hundreds of reasons why someone might  move slowly through a machine. But for those that have had really bad experiences at TSA or CBP  checkpoints, there are a couple of different avenues you can take.  If you  believe you have been the subject of discrimination, you may file a CRCL (DHS  Office for Civil Rights and Civil Liberties - and where I work) complaint.   Go to _www.dhs.gov/civilliberties_ (http://www.dhs.gov/civilliberties)   to download the form or send an email to _civil.liberties at dhs.gov_ (mailto:civil.liberties at dhs.gov)  explaining  what happened.  Please be sure to give as much detail as possible,  including the date, airport name, terminal number, time of day, the name of  anyone you obtain, and a narrative explaining what happened.  If you have a  customer service issue - for example a TSO was rude or dismissive, you may ask  for a supervisor, a comment card, or both.  You can also contact your local  field office after the fact to convey what happened. My message is substantially longer than I intended, and I apologize for the length. Regards, Ronza In a message dated 12/2/2009 4:25:21 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,  ckrugman at sbcglobal.net writes: I travel  frequently alone and the air lines and/or HSA provide needed assistence  upon my request. including through security check points and picking up  baggage and assistence with procuring ground transportation or to a  waiting party. I have found HSA and airport staff to be very  cooperative. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "stiehm.law"  To: Cc:  Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 12:57  PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > In addition  to the airlines, I have recently become curious as to what if > any,  accommodations for the TSA makes with respect to disabled people > going  through security and being picked up by somebody at the gate at the >  terminal at the other end of the flight. For example, do they permit a >  blind person who is traveling alone to be accompanied through  security, > down to the airline check-in counter at the gate by a  non-ticketed > person. > > At the other end, is a  non-ticketed person permitted through security to > go to the gate to  meet a blind person flying alone? > > If TSA does not provide for  such accommodations do the airlines take it > on themselves to provide  this service? > > Has anybody had any experience in this regard?  Is the accommodation, if > any, voluntary on the part of the TSA and/or  the airlines or is it > governed by regulation? > > Patrick  H. Stiehm > Stiehm Law Office > Alexandria, VA 22309 >  703-360-1089 (Voice) > 703-935-8266  (Fax) > > > > Tue, 1 Dec 2009 11:30:37 -0800 "Russell  J. Thomas, Jr." > writes: >> Off  the top of my head, and without any new research, the only case >>  I >> remember is a case challenging the accessibility of airline  websites >> with >> respect to attempting to make  reservations and ordering tickets on >> line. >> >>  I also think that there are regulations on the subject, especially >>  dealing >> with how disabled passengers are to be treated (or perhaps  on some >> occasions >> mistreated). >> >>  I often thought it would be a good idea for the NFB to put  together >> a short >> guide book concerning travel,  including air travel, based upon >> experiences >> of NFB  members, to be used as a reference guide for blind people who >> use  air >> travel.  Certainly things have changed since 911--some  changes for >> the good, >> and others not so  good. >> >> >> >> >>  Respectfully, >> >> >> >> Russell J.  Thomas, Jr. >> >> THOMAS &  ASSOCIATES >> >>  www.californiaemployersattorneys.com >> >> >> >>  Orange County Office >> >> 4121 Westerly Place, Suite  101 >> >> Newport Beach, California  92660 >> >> T: (949) 752-0101 >> >> F:  (949) 257-4756 >> >> M: (949)  466-7238 >> >> >> >> Beverly Hills  Office >> >> 9107 Wilshire Boulevard, Suite  450 >> >> Beverly Hills, California  90210 >> >> T: (310) 461-3561 >> >>  -----Original Message----- >> From:  blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]  On >> Behalf Of James Weisberg >> Sent: Tuesday, December  01, 2009 10:01 AM >> To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' >>  Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel >> >> Hi  Folks: >> >> >> >> Anyone on the lists  have experience or knowledge regarding the ADA >> and  suits >> against air carriers for violations available for quick  consult? >> Thanks. >> >> >> >>  James W. Weisberg, Esq. >> >> Law Office of J. William  Weisberg >> >> 299 South Patencio Road  #3 >> >> Palm Springs, California   92262 >> >> V:  916.425.1010 >> >>  F:  916.374.7667 >> >> E-Mail:   jimi-law at dc.rr.com >> >> Admitted in  Wisconsin >> >> Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration  Removal Defense & Civil >> Rights >> Advocacy for  Children with Diabetes >> >> This message contains  information which may be confidential and >> privileged. >>  Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the >>  addressee), >> you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the  message or any >> information >> contained in this message.  If you have received this message in >> error, >> please  advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from >>  your >> system. >> >> This exchange of information  does not create an attorney-client >> relationship >> nor  does it constitute legal advice.  The Law Office of J.  William >> Weisberg >> expects the recipient will  independently evaluate this information >> in >> accordance  with this disclaimer. >> >> >> >>  _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing  list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>  http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To  unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>  for >> blindlaw: >> >  http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rthomas%40rjtla >  wfi >>  rm.com >> >> >> >> >>  _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing  list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>  http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To  unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for  blindlaw: >> >  http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stiehm.law%40ju >  no.com >> > >  ____________________________________________________________ >  Hotel > Hotel pics, info and virtual tours.  Click here to book a  hotel online. >  http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/c?cp=ewJKbyZ61QloDsW_i_oQ_wAAJ1BdROy9vkzpR6E_Fj7jZTbnAAYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAATRAAAAAA= > >  _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing  list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org >  http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To  unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >  blindlaw: >  http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net  _______________________________________________ blindlaw  mailing  list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To  unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for  blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/aznor99%40aol.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mildredrivera%40yahoo.com From almomani at optonline.net Fri Dec 4 06:14:08 2009 From: almomani at optonline.net (Mudhaffer Al-Momani) Date: Fri, 04 Dec 2009 01:14:08 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel / Canes References: <368035.91609.qm@web33006.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Why? that sounds stupid. I had my cane all along and noone said a word to me, I just fold it and put it in the seat pouch in front of me or under the seat. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Millie Rivera-Rau" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 10:19 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel / Canes I have a question. Lately my long white cane has been taken from me after I get on the plane. Sometimes I can convince the personnel that I should be permitted to keep it but other times I am not successful. Is there something that I can site that would get through to them? Or, am I required to relinquish it? For some reason it has been a problem more in the last two years then ever before. I push it to a point just after making a scene. smile. The thing that really gets me is that they want to put it in an overhead bin and usually it falls out as soon as the bin is opened and hits someone on the head! Then the other passengers realize I was right. Any thoughts. Millie --- On Wed, 12/2/09, AZNOR99 at aol.com wrote: From: AZNOR99 at aol.com Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org Date: Wednesday, December 2, 2009, 12:24 PM Hello, This is an interesting subject. TSA is generally not responsible for providing a traveler with a guide as a passenger goes through screening. You can always request a Companion Pass from the airline for someone to accompany you; however, it is at the discretion of the airline as to whether or not they grant this request. Most do grant the Pass as long as you give them a valid reason, and most accept accompanying a minor or passenger with a disability or elderly individual as a valid reason. You can request a Companion Pass from the airline at the time of check-in if you bring someone with you to drop you off - you don't necessarily have to let the airline know in advance that you plan to do this. If you want someone to meet you at the gate when you arrive though, you'll need to let the airline know in advance. This is because you won't actually be with the person when they obtain the Companion Pass, so the airline can't verify that they know you or that you'd want them to pick you up. Companions are subject to the same screening and security measures as passengers - valid State or Federal ID, human and belonging scans, etc. TSA does not have jurisdiction over Companion Pass issuance - that is at the discretion of the airlines - they are subject to the regs of the FAA. You can ask for a Guide at the airport as well. Generally airlines prefer you do this in advance, but you can certainly choose to make such a request when you arrive at the airport or land at your destination. If you don't let them know you need someone in advance though, you might have to wait longer for someone to arrive, as airlines try to have staff waiting for passengers about whom they know. We've all seen the line of wheel chairs and uniformed staff waiting when we deplane? Well, they're each usually assigned to a particular person, and they usually know who that person is ahead of time. Airlines, and sometimes airports, are increasingly creating "Passenger Assistance Departments," and escorting passengers is one of their primary functions. There are some airports that utilize the airport police or other airport staff as escorts rather than airline personnel. Sometimes this is because it is incredibly difficult to credential staff for all areas of an airport, which such staff need to possess. Sometimes it may be a small airport, and it would be more efficient to assign escort responsibilities to one person for all the airlines. Or there might be other reasons. However, TSOs - Transportation Security Officers) are trained in how to interact with disabled passengers. For example, if you place your cane on the conveyer belt, a TSO may offer to position you prior to entering the human scanner and reach out to hold your hands to guide you forward. Due to the nature of the scanning equipment, a passenger must not touch the scanning machine - it will not function properly if anything comes into contact with it. Some of us have had the experience of bumping the machine and setting it off in the past. If you run your cane through the baggage scanner and ask for it back to take through the human scanner, you have to be very careful, once again, not to tap the scanner walls with the cane - it will likely set the machine off. Also, if your cane has metal - many of us use metal tips - then it may cause the scanner to go off, necessitating the individual be referred to secondary screening or wanding. I've personally had the experience of placing my cane on the baggage scanning belt and walking toward the human scanner. I walked through the scanner very slowly and did not set it off. However, I was referred to secondary. I always ask why I'm being referred to Secondary (I'm in the business of wanting to know if I'm being discriminated against because of my religion, national origin, or disability). The answer I usually get (not always though, and I've got some funny stories about other times) is "it's random." I conveyed to the TSO that I could not move to the secondary screening area until someone retrieved my cane from the conveyer belt. He got it for me and asked, "Oh, is the reason you moved so slowly through the scanner because you are blind?" I answered that it was, and he told me I was free to go. I insisted on going to Secondary, and he said, "Well you don't need to. Your behavior isn't suspicious. I just thought it was because I didn't know you were being careful not to bump the machine since you couldn't see well." Part of their jobs as TSOs is to monitor suspicious behavior; part of my job is to convey the difference between suspicious behavior and cultural norms. Needless to say I insisted on going to Secondary because I wanted the chance to talk the issue through with the TSO. It was a teachable moment, and I think he really got there could be hundreds of reasons why someone might move slowly through a machine. But for those that have had really bad experiences at TSA or CBP checkpoints, there are a couple of different avenues you can take. If you believe you have been the subject of discrimination, you may file a CRCL (DHS Office for Civil Rights and Civil Liberties - and where I work) complaint. Go to _www.dhs.gov/civilliberties_ (http://www.dhs.gov/civilliberties) to download the form or send an email to _civil.liberties at dhs.gov_ (mailto:civil.liberties at dhs.gov) explaining what happened. Please be sure to give as much detail as possible, including the date, airport name, terminal number, time of day, the name of anyone you obtain, and a narrative explaining what happened. If you have a customer service issue - for example a TSO was rude or dismissive, you may ask for a supervisor, a comment card, or both. You can also contact your local field office after the fact to convey what happened. My message is substantially longer than I intended, and I apologize for the length. Regards, Ronza In a message dated 12/2/2009 4:25:21 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, ckrugman at sbcglobal.net writes: I travel frequently alone and the air lines and/or HSA provide needed assistence upon my request. including through security check points and picking up baggage and assistence with procuring ground transportation or to a waiting party. I have found HSA and airport staff to be very cooperative. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "stiehm.law" To: Cc: Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 12:57 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > In addition to the airlines, I have recently become curious as to what if > any, accommodations for the TSA makes with respect to disabled people > going through security and being picked up by somebody at the gate at the > terminal at the other end of the flight. For example, do they permit a > blind person who is traveling alone to be accompanied through security, > down to the airline check-in counter at the gate by a non-ticketed > person. > > At the other end, is a non-ticketed person permitted through security to > go to the gate to meet a blind person flying alone? > > If TSA does not provide for such accommodations do the airlines take it > on themselves to provide this service? > > Has anybody had any experience in this regard? Is the accommodation, if > any, voluntary on the part of the TSA and/or the airlines or is it > governed by regulation? > > Patrick H. Stiehm > Stiehm Law Office > Alexandria, VA 22309 > 703-360-1089 (Voice) > 703-935-8266 (Fax) > > > > Tue, 1 Dec 2009 11:30:37 -0800 "Russell J. Thomas, Jr." > writes: >> Off the top of my head, and without any new research, the only case >> I >> remember is a case challenging the accessibility of airline websites >> with >> respect to attempting to make reservations and ordering tickets on >> line. >> >> I also think that there are regulations on the subject, especially >> dealing >> with how disabled passengers are to be treated (or perhaps on some >> occasions >> mistreated). >> >> I often thought it would be a good idea for the NFB to put together >> a short >> guide book concerning travel, including air travel, based upon >> experiences >> of NFB members, to be used as a reference guide for blind people who >> use air >> travel. Certainly things have changed since 911--some changes for >> the good, >> and others not so good. >> >> >> >> >> Respectfully, >> >> >> >> Russell J. Thomas, Jr. >> >> THOMAS & ASSOCIATES >> >> www.californiaemployersattorneys.com >> >> >> >> Orange County Office >> >> 4121 Westerly Place, Suite 101 >> >> Newport Beach, California 92660 >> >> T: (949) 752-0101 >> >> F: (949) 257-4756 >> >> M: (949) 466-7238 >> >> >> >> Beverly Hills Office >> >> 9107 Wilshire Boulevard, Suite 450 >> >> Beverly Hills, California 90210 >> >> T: (310) 461-3561 >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf Of James Weisberg >> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 10:01 AM >> To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' >> Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel >> >> Hi Folks: >> >> >> >> Anyone on the lists have experience or knowledge regarding the ADA >> and suits >> against air carriers for violations available for quick consult? >> Thanks. >> >> >> >> James W. Weisberg, Esq. >> >> Law Office of J. William Weisberg >> >> 299 South Patencio Road #3 >> >> Palm Springs, California 92262 >> >> V: 916.425.1010 >> >> F: 916.374.7667 >> >> E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com >> >> Admitted in Wisconsin >> >> Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil >> Rights >> Advocacy for Children with Diabetes >> >> This message contains information which may be confidential and >> privileged. >> Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the >> addressee), >> you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any >> information >> contained in this message. If you have received this message in >> error, >> please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from >> your >> system. >> >> This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client >> relationship >> nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William >> Weisberg >> expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information >> in >> accordance with this disclaimer. >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for >> blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rthomas%40rjtla > wfi >> rm.com >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stiehm.law%40ju > no.com >> > > ____________________________________________________________ > Hotel > Hotel pics, info and virtual tours. Click here to book a hotel online. > http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/c?cp=ewJKbyZ61QloDsW_i_oQ_wAAJ1BdROy9vkzpR6E_Fj7jZTbnAAYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAATRAAAAAA= > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/aznor99%40aol.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mildredrivera%40yahoo.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/almomani%40optonline.net From jimi-law at dc.rr.com Fri Dec 4 11:36:12 2009 From: jimi-law at dc.rr.com (James Weisberg) Date: Fri, 4 Dec 2009 03:36:12 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel / Canes In-Reply-To: <368035.91609.qm@web33006.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <368035.91609.qm@web33006.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <27D8A78BB0DF477DBDCCAF0D2A602EBF@screnci.local> I use a folding cane, which none of the airline personnel would have reason to know, and have NEVER had that issue with a fair amount of air travel. I take my folding cane after taking my seat and place it in the magazine compartment in front of me on the seat back (cane = no dog as dog is far superior! Fact!!) Perhaps you don't resemble a dirt bag like myself which may account for your additional obstacles? :-) James W. Weisberg, Esq. Law Office of J. William Weisberg 299 South Patencio Road #3 Palm Springs, California 92262 V: 916.425.1010 F: 916.374.7667 E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com Admitted in Wisconsin Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil Rights Advocacy for Children with Diabetes This message contains information which may be confidential and privileged. Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from your system. This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client relationship nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William Weisberg expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in accordance with this disclaimer. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Millie Rivera-Rau Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 7:19 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel / Canes I have a question. Lately my long white cane has been taken from me after I get on the plane. Sometimes I can convince the personnel that I should be permitted to keep it but other times I am not successful. Is there something that I can site that would get through to them? Or, am I required to relinquish it? For some reason it has been a problem more in the last two years then ever before. I push it to a point just after making a scene. smile. The thing that really gets me is that they want to put it in an overhead bin and usually it falls out as soon as the bin is opened and hits someone on the head! Then the other passengers realize I was right. Any thoughts.   Millie   --- On Wed, 12/2/09, AZNOR99 at aol.com wrote: From: AZNOR99 at aol.com Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org Date: Wednesday, December 2, 2009, 12:24 PM Hello, This is an interesting subject.  TSA is generally not  responsible for providing a traveler with a guide as a passenger goes  through screening.  You can always request a Companion Pass from the  airline for someone to accompany you; however, it is at the discretion of the  airline as to whether or not they grant this request.  Most do grant the  Pass as long as you give them a valid reason, and most accept accompanying a  minor or passenger with a disability or elderly individual as a valid  reason.  You can request a Companion Pass from the airline at the time of  check-in if you bring someone with you to drop you off - you don't necessarily  have to let the airline know in advance that you plan to do this.  If you  want someone to meet you at the gate when you arrive though, you'll need to let  the airline know in advance.  This is because you won't actually be with  the person when they obtain the Companion Pass, so the airline can't verify that  they know you or that you'd want them to pick you up.  Companions are  subject to the same screening and security measures as passengers - valid State  or Federal ID, human and belonging scans, etc.  TSA does not have  jurisdiction over Companion Pass issuance - that is at the discretion of the  airlines - they are subject to the regs of the FAA. You can ask for a Guide at the airport as well.  Generally airlines  prefer you do this in advance, but you can certainly choose to make such a  request when you arrive at the airport or land at your destination.  If you  don't let them know you need someone in advance though, you might have to wait  longer for someone to arrive, as airlines try to have staff waiting for  passengers  about whom they know. We've all seen the line of wheel chairs  and uniformed staff waiting when we deplane?  Well, they're each usually  assigned to a particular person, and they usually know who that person is ahead  of time.  Airlines, and sometimes airports, are increasingly creating  "Passenger Assistance Departments," and escorting passengers is one of their  primary functions. There are some airports that utilize the airport police or other airport  staff as escorts rather than airline personnel.  Sometimes this is because  it is incredibly difficult to credential staff for all areas of an airport,  which such staff need to possess.  Sometimes it may be a small airport, and  it would be more efficient to assign escort responsibilities to one person for  all the airlines.  Or there might be other reasons.  However, TSOs - Transportation Security Officers) are trained in how to  interact with disabled passengers.  For example, if you place your cane on  the conveyer belt, a TSO may offer to position you prior to entering the human scanner and reach out to hold your hands to guide you forward.  Due to the nature of the scanning equipment, a passenger must not touch the scanning  machine - it will not function properly if anything comes into contact with it.  Some of us have had the experience of bumping the machine and setting it off in the past. If you run your cane through the baggage scanner and ask for it back to  take through the human scanner, you have to be very careful, once again, not to  tap the scanner walls with the cane - it will likely set the machine off.   Also, if your cane has metal - many of us use metal tips - then it may cause the  scanner to go off, necessitating the individual be referred to secondary  screening or wanding. I've personally had the experience of placing my cane on the baggage  scanning belt and walking toward the human scanner.  I walked through the  scanner very slowly and did not set it off.  However, I was referred to  secondary.  I always ask why I'm being referred to Secondary (I'm in the  business of wanting to know if I'm being discriminated against because of my  religion, national origin, or disability).  The answer I usually get (not  always though, and I've got some funny stories about other times) is "it's  random."  I conveyed to the TSO that I could not move to the secondary  screening area until someone retrieved my cane from the conveyer belt.  He  got it for me and asked, "Oh, is the reason you moved so slowly through the  scanner because you are blind?" I answered that it was, and he told me I was  free to go. I insisted on going to Secondary, and he said, "Well you don't  need to. Your behavior isn't suspicious. I just thought it was because I didn't  know you were being careful not to bump the machine since you couldn't see  well."  Part of their jobs as TSOs is to monitor suspicious behavior; part  of my job is to convey the difference between suspicious behavior and cultural  norms.  Needless to say I insisted on going to Secondary because I wanted  the chance to talk the issue through with the TSO. It was a teachable moment,  and I think he really got there could be hundreds of reasons why someone might  move slowly through a machine. But for those that have had really bad experiences at TSA or CBP  checkpoints, there are a couple of different avenues you can take.  If you  believe you have been the subject of discrimination, you may file a CRCL (DHS  Office for Civil Rights and Civil Liberties - and where I work) complaint.   Go to _www.dhs.gov/civilliberties_ (http://www.dhs.gov/civilliberties)   to download the form or send an email to _civil.liberties at dhs.gov_ (mailto:civil.liberties at dhs.gov)  explaining  what happened.  Please be sure to give as much detail as possible,  including the date, airport name, terminal number, time of day, the name of  anyone you obtain, and a narrative explaining what happened.  If you have a  customer service issue - for example a TSO was rude or dismissive, you may ask  for a supervisor, a comment card, or both.  You can also contact your local  field office after the fact to convey what happened. My message is substantially longer than I intended, and I apologize for the length. Regards, Ronza In a message dated 12/2/2009 4:25:21 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,  ckrugman at sbcglobal.net writes: I travel  frequently alone and the air lines and/or HSA provide needed assistence  upon my request. including through security check points and picking up  baggage and assistence with procuring ground transportation or to a  waiting party. I have found HSA and airport staff to be very  cooperative. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "stiehm.law"  To: Cc:  Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 12:57  PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > In addition  to the airlines, I have recently become curious as to what if > any,  accommodations for the TSA makes with respect to disabled people > going  through security and being picked up by somebody at the gate at the >  terminal at the other end of the flight. For example, do they permit a >  blind person who is traveling alone to be accompanied through  security, > down to the airline check-in counter at the gate by a  non-ticketed > person. > > At the other end, is a  non-ticketed person permitted through security to > go to the gate to  meet a blind person flying alone? > > If TSA does not provide for  such accommodations do the airlines take it > on themselves to provide  this service? > > Has anybody had any experience in this regard?  Is the accommodation, if > any, voluntary on the part of the TSA and/or  the airlines or is it > governed by regulation? > > Patrick  H. Stiehm > Stiehm Law Office > Alexandria, VA 22309 >  703-360-1089 (Voice) > 703-935-8266  (Fax) > > > > Tue, 1 Dec 2009 11:30:37 -0800 "Russell  J. Thomas, Jr." > writes: >> Off  the top of my head, and without any new research, the only case >>  I >> remember is a case challenging the accessibility of airline  websites >> with >> respect to attempting to make  reservations and ordering tickets on >> line. >> >>  I also think that there are regulations on the subject, especially >>  dealing >> with how disabled passengers are to be treated (or perhaps  on some >> occasions >> mistreated). >> >>  I often thought it would be a good idea for the NFB to put  together >> a short >> guide book concerning travel,  including air travel, based upon >> experiences >> of NFB  members, to be used as a reference guide for blind people who >> use  air >> travel.  Certainly things have changed since 911--some  changes for >> the good, >> and others not so  good. >> >> >> >> >>  Respectfully, >> >> >> >> Russell J.  Thomas, Jr. >> >> THOMAS &  ASSOCIATES >> >>  www.californiaemployersattorneys.com >> >> >> >>  Orange County Office >> >> 4121 Westerly Place, Suite  101 >> >> Newport Beach, California  92660 >> >> T: (949) 752-0101 >> >> F:  (949) 257-4756 >> >> M: (949)  466-7238 >> >> >> >> Beverly Hills  Office >> >> 9107 Wilshire Boulevard, Suite  450 >> >> Beverly Hills, California  90210 >> >> T: (310) 461-3561 >> >>  -----Original Message----- >> From:  blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]  On >> Behalf Of James Weisberg >> Sent: Tuesday, December  01, 2009 10:01 AM >> To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' >>  Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel >> >> Hi  Folks: >> >> >> >> Anyone on the lists  have experience or knowledge regarding the ADA >> and  suits >> against air carriers for violations available for quick  consult? >> Thanks. >> >> >> >>  James W. Weisberg, Esq. >> >> Law Office of J. William  Weisberg >> >> 299 South Patencio Road  #3 >> >> Palm Springs, California   92262 >> >> V:  916.425.1010 >> >>  F:  916.374.7667 >> >> E-Mail:   jimi-law at dc.rr.com >> >> Admitted in  Wisconsin >> >> Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration  Removal Defense & Civil >> Rights >> Advocacy for  Children with Diabetes >> >> This message contains  information which may be confidential and >> privileged. >>  Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the >>  addressee), >> you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the  message or any >> information >> contained in this message.  If you have received this message in >> error, >> please  advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from >>  your >> system. >> >> This exchange of information  does not create an attorney-client >> relationship >> nor  does it constitute legal advice.  The Law Office of J.  William >> Weisberg >> expects the recipient will  independently evaluate this information >> in >> accordance  with this disclaimer. >> >> >> >>  _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing  list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>  http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To  unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>  for >> blindlaw: >> >  http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rthomas%40rjtla >  wfi >>  rm.com >> >> >> >> >>  _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing  list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>  http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To  unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for  blindlaw: >> >  http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stiehm.law%40ju >  no.com >> > >  ____________________________________________________________ >  Hotel > Hotel pics, info and virtual tours.  Click here to book a  hotel online. >  http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/c?cp=ewJKbyZ61QloDsW_i_oQ_wAAJ1BdRO y9vkzpR6E_Fj7jZTbnAAYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAATRAAAAAA= > >  _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing  list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org >  http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To  unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >  blindlaw: >  http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob al.net  _______________________________________________ blindlaw  mailing  list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To  unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for  blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/aznor99%40aol.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mildredrivera%40ya hoo.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jimi-law%40dc.rr.c om __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4659 (20091203) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4659 (20091203) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4660 (20091204) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4660 (20091204) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com From Yasmin.Reyazuddin at montgomerycountymd.gov Fri Dec 4 13:06:11 2009 From: Yasmin.Reyazuddin at montgomerycountymd.gov (Reyazuddin, Yasmin) Date: Fri, 4 Dec 2009 08:06:11 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel / Canes In-Reply-To: <368035.91609.qm@web33006.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Millie, It has happened to me too. I have given them the cane and they have placed in a secure place. I was in the ile seat and had no wall near me. They also put the cane in the overhead bin but are careful that it does not fall out. The airline staff are willing to help me get to the bathroom or bring me soft drinks. I am talking about long flights lasting 7 to 9 hours. Yasmin Reyazuddin Information & Referral unit Department of Health & human services 401 Hungerford Drive (1st floor) Rockville MD 20850 Phone 240-777-1245 (info line) 240-777-1556 (personal line) Fax: 240-777-4636 TTY: 240-777-1295 Office hours 8:30 am to 5:00 pm Languages English, Hindi, Urdu This message may contain protected health information or other information that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by return mail and destroy any copies of this material. Thank you. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Millie Rivera-Rau Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 10:19 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel / Canes I have a question. Lately my long white cane has been taken from me after I get on the plane. Sometimes I can convince the personnel that I should be permitted to keep it but other times I am not successful. Is there something that I can site that would get through to them? Or, am I required to relinquish it? For some reason it has been a problem more in the last two years then ever before. I push it to a point just after making a scene. smile. The thing that really gets me is that they want to put it in an overhead bin and usually it falls out as soon as the bin is opened and hits someone on the head! Then the other passengers realize I was right. Any thoughts.   Millie   --- On Wed, 12/2/09, AZNOR99 at aol.com wrote: From: AZNOR99 at aol.com Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org Date: Wednesday, December 2, 2009, 12:24 PM Hello, This is an interesting subject.  TSA is generally not  responsible for providing a traveler with a guide as a passenger goes  through screening.  You can always request a Companion Pass from the  airline for someone to accompany you; however, it is at the discretion of the  airline as to whether or not they grant this request.  Most do grant the  Pass as long as you give them a valid reason, and most accept accompanying a  minor or passenger with a disability or elderly individual as a valid  reason.  You can request a Companion Pass from the airline at the time of  check-in if you bring someone with you to drop you off - you don't necessarily  have to let the airline know in advance that you plan to do this.  If you  want someone to meet you at the gate when you arrive though, you'll need to let  the airline know in advance.  This is because you won't actually be with  the person when they obtain the Companion Pass, so the airline can't verify that  they know you or that you'd want them to pick you up.  Companions are  subject to the same screening and security measures as passengers - valid State  or Federal ID, human and belonging scans, etc.  TSA does not have  jurisdiction over Companion Pass issuance - that is at the discretion of the  airlines - they are subject to the regs of the FAA. You can ask for a Guide at the airport as well.  Generally airlines  prefer you do this in advance, but you can certainly choose to make such a  request when you arrive at the airport or land at your destination.  If you  don't let them know you need someone in advance though, you might have to wait  longer for someone to arrive, as airlines try to have staff waiting for  passengers  about whom they know. We've all seen the line of wheel chairs  and uniformed staff waiting when we deplane?  Well, they're each usually  assigned to a particular person, and they usually know who that person is ahead  of time.  Airlines, and sometimes airports, are increasingly creating  "Passenger Assistance Departments," and escorting passengers is one of their  primary functions. There are some airports that utilize the airport police or other airport  staff as escorts rather than airline personnel.  Sometimes this is because  it is incredibly difficult to credential staff for all areas of an airport,  which such staff need to possess.  Sometimes it may be a small airport, and  it would be more efficient to assign escort responsibilities to one person for  all the airlines.  Or there might be other reasons.  However, TSOs - Transportation Security Officers) are trained in how to  interact with disabled passengers.  For example, if you place your cane on  the conveyer belt, a TSO may offer to position you prior to entering the human scanner and reach out to hold your hands to guide you forward.  Due to the nature of the scanning equipment, a passenger must not touch the scanning  machine - it will not function properly if anything comes into contact with it.  Some of us have had the experience of bumping the machine and setting it off in the past. If you run your cane through the baggage scanner and ask for it back to  take through the human scanner, you have to be very careful, once again, not to  tap the scanner walls with the cane - it will likely set the machine off.   Also, if your cane has metal - many of us use metal tips - then it may cause the  scanner to go off, necessitating the individual be referred to secondary  screening or wanding. I've personally had the experience of placing my cane on the baggage  scanning belt and walking toward the human scanner.  I walked through the  scanner very slowly and did not set it off.  However, I was referred to  secondary.  I always ask why I'm being referred to Secondary (I'm in the  business of wanting to know if I'm being discriminated against because of my  religion, national origin, or disability).  The answer I usually get (not  always though, and I've got some funny stories about other times) is "it's  random."  I conveyed to the TSO that I could not move to the secondary  screening area until someone retrieved my cane from the conveyer belt.  He  got it for me and asked, "Oh, is the reason you moved so slowly through the  scanner because you are blind?" I answered that it was, and he told me I was  free to go. I insisted on going to Secondary, and he said, "Well you don't  need to. Your behavior isn't suspicious. I just thought it was because I didn't  know you were being careful not to bump the machine since you couldn't see  well."  Part of their jobs as TSOs is to monitor suspicious behavior; part  of my job is to convey the difference between suspicious behavior and cultural  norms.  Needless to say I insisted on going to Secondary because I wanted  the chance to talk the issue through with the TSO. It was a teachable moment,  and I think he really got there could be hundreds of reasons why someone might  move slowly through a machine. But for those that have had really bad experiences at TSA or CBP  checkpoints, there are a couple of different avenues you can take.  If you  believe you have been the subject of discrimination, you may file a CRCL (DHS  Office for Civil Rights and Civil Liberties - and where I work) complaint.   Go to _www.dhs.gov/civilliberties_ (http://www.dhs.gov/civilliberties)   to download the form or send an email to _civil.liberties at dhs.gov_ (mailto:civil.liberties at dhs.gov)  explaining  what happened.  Please be sure to give as much detail as possible,  including the date, airport name, terminal number, time of day, the name of  anyone you obtain, and a narrative explaining what happened.  If you have a  customer service issue - for example a TSO was rude or dismissive, you may ask  for a supervisor, a comment card, or both.  You can also contact your local  field office after the fact to convey what happened. My message is substantially longer than I intended, and I apologize for the length. Regards, Ronza In a message dated 12/2/2009 4:25:21 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,  ckrugman at sbcglobal.net writes: I travel  frequently alone and the air lines and/or HSA provide needed assistence  upon my request. including through security check points and picking up  baggage and assistence with procuring ground transportation or to a  waiting party. I have found HSA and airport staff to be very  cooperative. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "stiehm.law"  To: Cc:  Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 12:57  PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > In addition  to the airlines, I have recently become curious as to what if > any,  accommodations for the TSA makes with respect to disabled people > going  through security and being picked up by somebody at the gate at the >  terminal at the other end of the flight. For example, do they permit a >  blind person who is traveling alone to be accompanied through  security, > down to the airline check-in counter at the gate by a  non-ticketed > person. > > At the other end, is a  non-ticketed person permitted through security to > go to the gate to  meet a blind person flying alone? > > If TSA does not provide for  such accommodations do the airlines take it > on themselves to provide  this service? > > Has anybody had any experience in this regard?  Is the accommodation, if > any, voluntary on the part of the TSA and/or  the airlines or is it > governed by regulation? > > Patrick  H. Stiehm > Stiehm Law Office > Alexandria, VA 22309 >  703-360-1089 (Voice) > 703-935-8266  (Fax) > > > > Tue, 1 Dec 2009 11:30:37 -0800 "Russell  J. Thomas, Jr." > writes: >> Off  the top of my head, and without any new research, the only case >>  I >> remember is a case challenging the accessibility of airline  websites >> with >> respect to attempting to make  reservations and ordering tickets on >> line. >> >>  I also think that there are regulations on the subject, especially >>  dealing >> with how disabled passengers are to be treated (or perhaps  on some >> occasions >> mistreated). >> >>  I often thought it would be a good idea for the NFB to put  together >> a short >> guide book concerning travel,  including air travel, based upon >> experiences >> of NFB  members, to be used as a reference guide for blind people who >> use  air >> travel.  Certainly things have changed since 911--some  changes for >> the good, >> and others not so  good. >> >> >> >> >>  Respectfully, >> >> >> >> Russell J.  Thomas, Jr. >> >> THOMAS &  ASSOCIATES >> >>  www.californiaemployersattorneys.com >> >> >> >>  Orange County Office >> >> 4121 Westerly Place, Suite  101 >> >> Newport Beach, California  92660 >> >> T: (949) 752-0101 >> >> F:  (949) 257-4756 >> >> M: (949)  466-7238 >> >> >> >> Beverly Hills  Office >> >> 9107 Wilshire Boulevard, Suite  450 >> >> Beverly Hills, California  90210 >> >> T: (310) 461-3561 >> >>  -----Original Message----- >> From:  blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]  On >> Behalf Of James Weisberg >> Sent: Tuesday, December  01, 2009 10:01 AM >> To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' >>  Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel >> >> Hi  Folks: >> >> >> >> Anyone on the lists  have experience or knowledge regarding the ADA >> and  suits >> against air carriers for violations available for quick  consult? >> Thanks. >> >> >> >>  James W. Weisberg, Esq. >> >> Law Office of J. William  Weisberg >> >> 299 South Patencio Road  #3 >> >> Palm Springs, California   92262 >> >> V:  916.425.1010 >> >>  F:  916.374.7667 >> >> E-Mail:   jimi-law at dc.rr.com >> >> Admitted in  Wisconsin >> >> Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration  Removal Defense & Civil >> Rights >> Advocacy for  Children with Diabetes >> >> This message contains  information which may be confidential and >> privileged. >>  Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the >>  addressee), >> you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the  message or any >> information >> contained in this message.  If you have received this message in >> error, >> please  advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from >>  your >> system. >> >> This exchange of information  does not create an attorney-client >> relationship >> nor  does it constitute legal advice.  The Law Office of J.  William >> Weisberg >> expects the recipient will  independently evaluate this information >> in >> accordance  with this disclaimer. >> >> >> >>  _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing  list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>  http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To  unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>  for >> blindlaw: >> >  http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rthomas%40rjtla >  wfi >>  rm.com >> >> >> >> >>  _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing  list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>  http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To  unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for  blindlaw: >> >  http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stiehm.law%40ju >  no.com >> > >  ____________________________________________________________ >  Hotel > Hotel pics, info and virtual tours.  Click here to book a  hotel online. >  http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/c?cp=ewJKbyZ61QloDsW_i_oQ_wAAJ1BdROy9vkzpR6E_Fj7jZTbnAAYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAATRAAAAAA= > >  _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing  list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org >  http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To  unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >  blindlaw: >  http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net  _______________________________________________ blindlaw  mailing  list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To  unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for  blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/aznor99%40aol.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mildredrivera%40yahoo.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/yasmin.reyazuddin%40montgomerycountymd.gov From mildredrivera at yahoo.com Fri Dec 4 14:03:02 2009 From: mildredrivera at yahoo.com (Millie Rivera-Rau) Date: Fri, 4 Dec 2009 06:03:02 -0800 (PST) Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel / Canes In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <407279.40284.qm@web33006.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I prefer to use a long white cane. When I sit in the aisle, I just ask the person near the window if I can stow it there and no one has ever turned me down. I was wondering if anyone knows, maybe Ronza, if I have a right to have the cane at my reach? I maintain that I do, but don't know any reg or airline policy that actually says that I do. Have a blessed day !!! :), Millie  --- On Fri, 12/4/09, Reyazuddin, Yasmin wrote: From: Reyazuddin, Yasmin Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel / Canes To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Date: Friday, December 4, 2009, 8:06 AM Hi Millie, It has happened to me too. I have given them the cane and they have placed in a secure place. I was in the ile seat and had no wall near me. They also put the cane in the overhead bin but are careful that it does not fall out. The airline staff are willing to help me get to the bathroom or bring me soft drinks. I am talking about long flights lasting 7 to 9 hours. Yasmin Reyazuddin Information & Referral unit Department of Health & human services 401 Hungerford Drive (1st floor) Rockville MD 20850 Phone 240-777-1245 (info line) 240-777-1556 (personal line) Fax: 240-777-4636 TTY: 240-777-1295 Office hours 8:30 am to 5:00 pm Languages English, Hindi, Urdu This message may contain protected health information or other information that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by return mail and destroy any copies of this material. Thank you. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Millie Rivera-Rau Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 10:19 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel / Canes I have a question. Lately my long white cane has been taken from me after I get on the plane. Sometimes I can convince the personnel that I should be permitted to keep it but other times I am not successful. Is there something that I can site that would get through to them? Or, am I required to relinquish it? For some reason it has been a problem more in the last two years then ever before. I push it to a point just after making a scene. smile. The thing that really gets me is that they want to put it in an overhead bin and usually it falls out as soon as the bin is opened and hits someone on the head! Then the other passengers realize I was right. Any thoughts.   Millie   --- On Wed, 12/2/09, AZNOR99 at aol.com wrote: From: AZNOR99 at aol.com Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org Date: Wednesday, December 2, 2009, 12:24 PM Hello, This is an interesting subject.  TSA is generally not  responsible for providing a traveler with a guide as a passenger goes  through screening.  You can always request a Companion Pass from the  airline for someone to accompany you; however, it is at the discretion of the  airline as to whether or not they grant this request.  Most do grant the  Pass as long as you give them a valid reason, and most accept accompanying a  minor or passenger with a disability or elderly individual as a valid  reason.  You can request a Companion Pass from the airline at the time of  check-in if you bring someone with you to drop you off - you don't necessarily  have to let the airline know in advance that you plan to do this.  If you  want someone to meet you at the gate when you arrive though, you'll need to let  the airline know in advance.  This is because you won't actually be with  the person when they obtain the Companion Pass, so the airline can't verify that  they know you or that you'd want them to pick you up.  Companions are  subject to the same screening and security measures as passengers - valid State  or Federal ID, human and belonging scans, etc.  TSA does not have  jurisdiction over Companion Pass issuance - that is at the discretion of the  airlines - they are subject to the regs of the FAA. You can ask for a Guide at the airport as well.  Generally airlines  prefer you do this in advance, but you can certainly choose to make such a  request when you arrive at the airport or land at your destination.  If you  don't let them know you need someone in advance though, you might have to wait  longer for someone to arrive, as airlines try to have staff waiting for  passengers  about whom they know. We've all seen the line of wheel chairs  and uniformed staff waiting when we deplane?  Well, they're each usually  assigned to a particular person, and they usually know who that person is ahead  of time.  Airlines, and sometimes airports, are increasingly creating  "Passenger Assistance Departments," and escorting passengers is one of their  primary functions. There are some airports that utilize the airport police or other airport  staff as escorts rather than airline personnel.  Sometimes this is because  it is incredibly difficult to credential staff for all areas of an airport,  which such staff need to possess.  Sometimes it may be a small airport, and  it would be more efficient to assign escort responsibilities to one person for  all the airlines.  Or there might be other reasons.  However, TSOs - Transportation Security Officers) are trained in how to  interact with disabled passengers.  For example, if you place your cane on  the conveyer belt, a TSO may offer to position you prior to entering the human scanner and reach out to hold your hands to guide you forward.  Due to the nature of the scanning equipment, a passenger must not touch the scanning  machine - it will not function properly if anything comes into contact with it.  Some of us have had the experience of bumping the machine and setting it off in the past. If you run your cane through the baggage scanner and ask for it back to  take through the human scanner, you have to be very careful, once again, not to  tap the scanner walls with the cane - it will likely set the machine off.   Also, if your cane has metal - many of us use metal tips - then it may cause the  scanner to go off, necessitating the individual be referred to secondary  screening or wanding. I've personally had the experience of placing my cane on the baggage  scanning belt and walking toward the human scanner.  I walked through the  scanner very slowly and did not set it off.  However, I was referred to  secondary.  I always ask why I'm being referred to Secondary (I'm in the  business of wanting to know if I'm being discriminated against because of my  religion, national origin, or disability).  The answer I usually get (not  always though, and I've got some funny stories about other times) is "it's  random."  I conveyed to the TSO that I could not move to the secondary  screening area until someone retrieved my cane from the conveyer belt.  He  got it for me and asked, "Oh, is the reason you moved so slowly through the  scanner because you are blind?" I answered that it was, and he told me I was  free to go. I insisted on going to Secondary, and he said, "Well you don't  need to. Your behavior isn't suspicious. I just thought it was because I didn't  know you were being careful not to bump the machine since you couldn't see  well."  Part of their jobs as TSOs is to monitor suspicious behavior; part  of my job is to convey the difference between suspicious behavior and cultural  norms.  Needless to say I insisted on going to Secondary because I wanted  the chance to talk the issue through with the TSO. It was a teachable moment,  and I think he really got there could be hundreds of reasons why someone might  move slowly through a machine. But for those that have had really bad experiences at TSA or CBP  checkpoints, there are a couple of different avenues you can take.  If you  believe you have been the subject of discrimination, you may file a CRCL (DHS  Office for Civil Rights and Civil Liberties - and where I work) complaint.   Go to _www.dhs.gov/civilliberties_ (http://www.dhs.gov/civilliberties)   to download the form or send an email to _civil.liberties at dhs.gov_ (mailto:civil.liberties at dhs.gov)  explaining  what happened.  Please be sure to give as much detail as possible,  including the date, airport name, terminal number, time of day, the name of  anyone you obtain, and a narrative explaining what happened.  If you have a  customer service issue - for example a TSO was rude or dismissive, you may ask  for a supervisor, a comment card, or both.  You can also contact your local  field office after the fact to convey what happened. My message is substantially longer than I intended, and I apologize for the length. Regards, Ronza In a message dated 12/2/2009 4:25:21 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,  ckrugman at sbcglobal.net writes: I travel  frequently alone and the air lines and/or HSA provide needed assistence  upon my request. including through security check points and picking up  baggage and assistence with procuring ground transportation or to a  waiting party. I have found HSA and airport staff to be very  cooperative. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "stiehm.law"  To: Cc:  Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 12:57  PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > In addition  to the airlines, I have recently become curious as to what if > any,  accommodations for the TSA makes with respect to disabled people > going  through security and being picked up by somebody at the gate at the >  terminal at the other end of the flight. For example, do they permit a >  blind person who is traveling alone to be accompanied through  security, > down to the airline check-in counter at the gate by a  non-ticketed > person. > > At the other end, is a  non-ticketed person permitted through security to > go to the gate to  meet a blind person flying alone? > > If TSA does not provide for  such accommodations do the airlines take it > on themselves to provide  this service? > > Has anybody had any experience in this regard?  Is the accommodation, if > any, voluntary on the part of the TSA and/or  the airlines or is it > governed by regulation? > > Patrick  H. Stiehm > Stiehm Law Office > Alexandria, VA 22309 >  703-360-1089 (Voice) > 703-935-8266  (Fax) > > > > Tue, 1 Dec 2009 11:30:37 -0800 "Russell  J. Thomas, Jr." > writes: >> Off  the top of my head, and without any new research, the only case >>  I >> remember is a case challenging the accessibility of airline  websites >> with >> respect to attempting to make  reservations and ordering tickets on >> line. >> >>  I also think that there are regulations on the subject, especially >>  dealing >> with how disabled passengers are to be treated (or perhaps  on some >> occasions >> mistreated). >> >>  I often thought it would be a good idea for the NFB to put  together >> a short >> guide book concerning travel,  including air travel, based upon >> experiences >> of NFB  members, to be used as a reference guide for blind people who >> use  air >> travel.  Certainly things have changed since 911--some  changes for >> the good, >> and others not so  good. >> >> >> >> >>  Respectfully, >> >> >> >> Russell J.  Thomas, Jr. >> >> THOMAS &  ASSOCIATES >> >>  www.californiaemployersattorneys.com >> >> >> >>  Orange County Office >> >> 4121 Westerly Place, Suite  101 >> >> Newport Beach, California  92660 >> >> T: (949) 752-0101 >> >> F:  (949) 257-4756 >> >> M: (949)  466-7238 >> >> >> >> Beverly Hills  Office >> >> 9107 Wilshire Boulevard, Suite  450 >> >> Beverly Hills, California  90210 >> >> T: (310) 461-3561 >> >>  -----Original Message----- >> From:  blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]  On >> Behalf Of James Weisberg >> Sent: Tuesday, December  01, 2009 10:01 AM >> To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' >>  Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel >> >> Hi  Folks: >> >> >> >> Anyone on the lists  have experience or knowledge regarding the ADA >> and  suits >> against air carriers for violations available for quick  consult? >> Thanks. >> >> >> >>  James W. Weisberg, Esq. >> >> Law Office of J. William  Weisberg >> >> 299 South Patencio Road  #3 >> >> Palm Springs, California   92262 >> >> V:  916.425.1010 >> >>  F:  916.374.7667 >> >> E-Mail:   jimi-law at dc.rr.com >> >> Admitted in  Wisconsin >> >> Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration  Removal Defense & Civil >> Rights >> Advocacy for  Children with Diabetes >> >> This message contains  information which may be confidential and >> privileged. >>  Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the >>  addressee), >> you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the  message or any >> information >> contained in this message.  If you have received this message in >> error, >> please  advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from >>  your >> system. >> >> This exchange of information  does not create an attorney-client >> relationship >> nor  does it constitute legal advice.  The Law Office of J.  William >> Weisberg >> expects the recipient will  independently evaluate this information >> in >> accordance  with this disclaimer. >> >> >> >>  _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing  list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>  http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To  unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>  for >> blindlaw: >> >  http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rthomas%40rjtla >  wfi >>  rm.com >> >> >> >> >>  _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing  list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>  http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To  unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for  blindlaw: >> >  http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stiehm.law%40ju >  no.com >> > >  ____________________________________________________________ >  Hotel > Hotel pics, info and virtual tours.  Click here to book a  hotel online. >  http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/c?cp=ewJKbyZ61QloDsW_i_oQ_wAAJ1BdROy9vkzpR6E_Fj7jZTbnAAYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAATRAAAAAA= > >  _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing  list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org >  http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To  unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >  blindlaw: >  http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net  _______________________________________________ blindlaw  mailing  list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To  unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for  blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/aznor99%40aol.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mildredrivera%40yahoo.com       _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/yasmin.reyazuddin%40montgomerycountymd.gov _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mildredrivera%40yahoo.com From stevep.deeley at insightbb.com Fri Dec 4 16:59:23 2009 From: stevep.deeley at insightbb.com (Steve P. Deeley) Date: Fri, 4 Dec 2009 11:59:23 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel / Canes In-Reply-To: <27D8A78BB0DF477DBDCCAF0D2A602EBF@screnci.local> References: <368035.91609.qm@web33006.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <27D8A78BB0DF477DBDCCAF0D2A602EBF@screnci.local> Message-ID: <3A18ED1C06D3401AA8C99D87EA1966E7@StevePC> Maybe we should form a consulting firm and offer disability training to all airlines. ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Weisberg" To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 6:36 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel / Canes I use a folding cane, which none of the airline personnel would have reason to know, and have NEVER had that issue with a fair amount of air travel. I take my folding cane after taking my seat and place it in the magazine compartment in front of me on the seat back (cane = no dog as dog is far superior! Fact!!) Perhaps you don't resemble a dirt bag like myself which may account for your additional obstacles? :-) James W. Weisberg, Esq. Law Office of J. William Weisberg 299 South Patencio Road #3 Palm Springs, California 92262 V: 916.425.1010 F: 916.374.7667 E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com Admitted in Wisconsin Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil Rights Advocacy for Children with Diabetes This message contains information which may be confidential and privileged. Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from your system. This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client relationship nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William Weisberg expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in accordance with this disclaimer. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Millie Rivera-Rau Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 7:19 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel / Canes I have a question. Lately my long white cane has been taken from me after I get on the plane. Sometimes I can convince the personnel that I should be permitted to keep it but other times I am not successful. Is there something that I can site that would get through to them? Or, am I required to relinquish it? For some reason it has been a problem more in the last two years then ever before. I push it to a point just after making a scene. smile. The thing that really gets me is that they want to put it in an overhead bin and usually it falls out as soon as the bin is opened and hits someone on the head! Then the other passengers realize I was right. Any thoughts. Millie --- On Wed, 12/2/09, AZNOR99 at aol.com wrote: From: AZNOR99 at aol.com Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org Date: Wednesday, December 2, 2009, 12:24 PM Hello, This is an interesting subject. TSA is generally not responsible for providing a traveler with a guide as a passenger goes through screening. You can always request a Companion Pass from the airline for someone to accompany you; however, it is at the discretion of the airline as to whether or not they grant this request. Most do grant the Pass as long as you give them a valid reason, and most accept accompanying a minor or passenger with a disability or elderly individual as a valid reason. You can request a Companion Pass from the airline at the time of check-in if you bring someone with you to drop you off - you don't necessarily have to let the airline know in advance that you plan to do this. If you want someone to meet you at the gate when you arrive though, you'll need to let the airline know in advance. This is because you won't actually be with the person when they obtain the Companion Pass, so the airline can't verify that they know you or that you'd want them to pick you up. Companions are subject to the same screening and security measures as passengers - valid State or Federal ID, human and belonging scans, etc. TSA does not have jurisdiction over Companion Pass issuance - that is at the discretion of the airlines - they are subject to the regs of the FAA. You can ask for a Guide at the airport as well. Generally airlines prefer you do this in advance, but you can certainly choose to make such a request when you arrive at the airport or land at your destination. If you don't let them know you need someone in advance though, you might have to wait longer for someone to arrive, as airlines try to have staff waiting for passengers about whom they know. We've all seen the line of wheel chairs and uniformed staff waiting when we deplane? Well, they're each usually assigned to a particular person, and they usually know who that person is ahead of time. Airlines, and sometimes airports, are increasingly creating "Passenger Assistance Departments," and escorting passengers is one of their primary functions. There are some airports that utilize the airport police or other airport staff as escorts rather than airline personnel. Sometimes this is because it is incredibly difficult to credential staff for all areas of an airport, which such staff need to possess. Sometimes it may be a small airport, and it would be more efficient to assign escort responsibilities to one person for all the airlines. Or there might be other reasons. However, TSOs - Transportation Security Officers) are trained in how to interact with disabled passengers. For example, if you place your cane on the conveyer belt, a TSO may offer to position you prior to entering the human scanner and reach out to hold your hands to guide you forward. Due to the nature of the scanning equipment, a passenger must not touch the scanning machine - it will not function properly if anything comes into contact with it. Some of us have had the experience of bumping the machine and setting it off in the past. If you run your cane through the baggage scanner and ask for it back to take through the human scanner, you have to be very careful, once again, not to tap the scanner walls with the cane - it will likely set the machine off. Also, if your cane has metal - many of us use metal tips - then it may cause the scanner to go off, necessitating the individual be referred to secondary screening or wanding. I've personally had the experience of placing my cane on the baggage scanning belt and walking toward the human scanner. I walked through the scanner very slowly and did not set it off. However, I was referred to secondary. I always ask why I'm being referred to Secondary (I'm in the business of wanting to know if I'm being discriminated against because of my religion, national origin, or disability). The answer I usually get (not always though, and I've got some funny stories about other times) is "it's random." I conveyed to the TSO that I could not move to the secondary screening area until someone retrieved my cane from the conveyer belt. He got it for me and asked, "Oh, is the reason you moved so slowly through the scanner because you are blind?" I answered that it was, and he told me I was free to go. I insisted on going to Secondary, and he said, "Well you don't need to. Your behavior isn't suspicious. I just thought it was because I didn't know you were being careful not to bump the machine since you couldn't see well." Part of their jobs as TSOs is to monitor suspicious behavior; part of my job is to convey the difference between suspicious behavior and cultural norms. Needless to say I insisted on going to Secondary because I wanted the chance to talk the issue through with the TSO. It was a teachable moment, and I think he really got there could be hundreds of reasons why someone might move slowly through a machine. But for those that have had really bad experiences at TSA or CBP checkpoints, there are a couple of different avenues you can take. If you believe you have been the subject of discrimination, you may file a CRCL (DHS Office for Civil Rights and Civil Liberties - and where I work) complaint. Go to _www.dhs.gov/civilliberties_ (http://www.dhs.gov/civilliberties) to download the form or send an email to _civil.liberties at dhs.gov_ (mailto:civil.liberties at dhs.gov) explaining what happened. Please be sure to give as much detail as possible, including the date, airport name, terminal number, time of day, the name of anyone you obtain, and a narrative explaining what happened. If you have a customer service issue - for example a TSO was rude or dismissive, you may ask for a supervisor, a comment card, or both. You can also contact your local field office after the fact to convey what happened. My message is substantially longer than I intended, and I apologize for the length. Regards, Ronza In a message dated 12/2/2009 4:25:21 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, ckrugman at sbcglobal.net writes: I travel frequently alone and the air lines and/or HSA provide needed assistence upon my request. including through security check points and picking up baggage and assistence with procuring ground transportation or to a waiting party. I have found HSA and airport staff to be very cooperative. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "stiehm.law" To: Cc: Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 12:57 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > In addition to the airlines, I have recently become curious as to what if > any, accommodations for the TSA makes with respect to disabled people > going through security and being picked up by somebody at the gate at the > terminal at the other end of the flight. For example, do they permit a > blind person who is traveling alone to be accompanied through security, > down to the airline check-in counter at the gate by a non-ticketed > person. > > At the other end, is a non-ticketed person permitted through security to > go to the gate to meet a blind person flying alone? > > If TSA does not provide for such accommodations do the airlines take it > on themselves to provide this service? > > Has anybody had any experience in this regard? Is the accommodation, if > any, voluntary on the part of the TSA and/or the airlines or is it > governed by regulation? > > Patrick H. Stiehm > Stiehm Law Office > Alexandria, VA 22309 > 703-360-1089 (Voice) > 703-935-8266 (Fax) > > > > Tue, 1 Dec 2009 11:30:37 -0800 "Russell J. Thomas, Jr." > writes: >> Off the top of my head, and without any new research, the only case >> I >> remember is a case challenging the accessibility of airline websites >> with >> respect to attempting to make reservations and ordering tickets on >> line. >> >> I also think that there are regulations on the subject, especially >> dealing >> with how disabled passengers are to be treated (or perhaps on some >> occasions >> mistreated). >> >> I often thought it would be a good idea for the NFB to put together >> a short >> guide book concerning travel, including air travel, based upon >> experiences >> of NFB members, to be used as a reference guide for blind people who >> use air >> travel. Certainly things have changed since 911--some changes for >> the good, >> and others not so good. >> >> >> >> >> Respectfully, >> >> >> >> Russell J. Thomas, Jr. >> >> THOMAS & ASSOCIATES >> >> www.californiaemployersattorneys.com >> >> >> >> Orange County Office >> >> 4121 Westerly Place, Suite 101 >> >> Newport Beach, California 92660 >> >> T: (949) 752-0101 >> >> F: (949) 257-4756 >> >> M: (949) 466-7238 >> >> >> >> Beverly Hills Office >> >> 9107 Wilshire Boulevard, Suite 450 >> >> Beverly Hills, California 90210 >> >> T: (310) 461-3561 >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf Of James Weisberg >> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 10:01 AM >> To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' >> Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel >> >> Hi Folks: >> >> >> >> Anyone on the lists have experience or knowledge regarding the ADA >> and suits >> against air carriers for violations available for quick consult? >> Thanks. >> >> >> >> James W. Weisberg, Esq. >> >> Law Office of J. William Weisberg >> >> 299 South Patencio Road #3 >> >> Palm Springs, California 92262 >> >> V: 916.425.1010 >> >> F: 916.374.7667 >> >> E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com >> >> Admitted in Wisconsin >> >> Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil >> Rights >> Advocacy for Children with Diabetes >> >> This message contains information which may be confidential and >> privileged. >> Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the >> addressee), >> you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any >> information >> contained in this message. If you have received this message in >> error, >> please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from >> your >> system. >> >> This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client >> relationship >> nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William >> Weisberg >> expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information >> in >> accordance with this disclaimer. >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for >> blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rthomas%40rjtla > wfi >> rm.com >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stiehm.law%40ju > no.com >> > > ____________________________________________________________ > Hotel > Hotel pics, info and virtual tours. Click here to book a hotel online. > http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/c?cp=ewJKbyZ61QloDsW_i_oQ_wAAJ1BdRO y9vkzpR6E_Fj7jZTbnAAYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAATRAAAAAA= > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob al.net _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/aznor99%40aol.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mildredrivera%40ya hoo.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jimi-law%40dc.rr.c om __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4659 (20091203) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4659 (20091203) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4660 (20091204) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4660 (20091204) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.426 / Virus Database: 270.14.93/2544 - Release Date: 12/04/09 07:32:00 From AZNOR99 at aol.com Fri Dec 4 23:19:51 2009 From: AZNOR99 at aol.com (AZNOR99 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 4 Dec 2009 18:19:51 EST Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel / Canes Message-ID: I'm not sure. DHS doesn't have jurisdiction over what happens on the planes themselves - that's Department of Transportation, so Craig might know. However, I know there are regs that prohibit loose items from being permitted to remain loose during take-off and landing. That's usually how the air carriers get us to give up our canes. I lay my cane along the fusalage as well, Millie, and no one has ever said a word about that either. In a message dated 12/4/2009 9:34:40 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, mildredrivera at yahoo.com writes: I prefer to use a long white cane. When I sit in the aisle, I just ask the person near the window if I can stow it there and no one has ever turned me down. I was wondering if anyone knows, maybe Ronza, if I have a right to have the cane at my reach? I maintain that I do, but don't know any reg or airline policy that actually says that I do. Have a blessed day !!! :), Millie --- On Fri, 12/4/09, Reyazuddin, Yasmin wrote: From: Reyazuddin, Yasmin Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel / Canes To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Date: Friday, December 4, 2009, 8:06 AM Hi Millie, It has happened to me too. I have given them the cane and they have placed in a secure place. I was in the ile seat and had no wall near me. They also put the cane in the overhead bin but are careful that it does not fall out. The airline staff are willing to help me get to the bathroom or bring me soft drinks. I am talking about long flights lasting 7 to 9 hours. Yasmin Reyazuddin Information & Referral unit Department of Health & human services 401 Hungerford Drive (1st floor) Rockville MD 20850 Phone 240-777-1245 (info line) 240-777-1556 (personal line) Fax: 240-777-4636 TTY: 240-777-1295 Office hours 8:30 am to 5:00 pm Languages English, Hindi, Urdu This message may contain protected health information or other information that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by return mail and destroy any copies of this material. Thank you. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Millie Rivera-Rau Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 10:19 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel / Canes I have a question. Lately my long white cane has been taken from me after I get on the plane. Sometimes I can convince the personnel that I should be permitted to keep it but other times I am not successful. Is there something that I can site that would get through to them? Or, am I required to relinquish it? For some reason it has been a problem more in the last two years then ever before. I push it to a point just after making a scene. smile. The thing that really gets me is that they want to put it in an overhead bin and usually it falls out as soon as the bin is opened and hits someone on the head! Then the other passengers realize I was right. Any thoughts. Millie --- On Wed, 12/2/09, AZNOR99 at aol.com wrote: From: AZNOR99 at aol.com Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org Date: Wednesday, December 2, 2009, 12:24 PM Hello, This is an interesting subject. TSA is generally not responsible for providing a traveler with a guide as a passenger goes through screening. You can always request a Companion Pass from the airline for someone to accompany you; however, it is at the discretion of the airline as to whether or not they grant this request. Most do grant the Pass as long as you give them a valid reason, and most accept accompanying a minor or passenger with a disability or elderly individual as a valid reason. You can request a Companion Pass from the airline at the time of check-in if you bring someone with you to drop you off - you don't necessarily have to let the airline know in advance that you plan to do this. If you want someone to meet you at the gate when you arrive though, you'll need to let the airline know in advance. This is because you won't actually be with the person when they obtain the Companion Pass, so the airline can't verify that they know you or that you'd want them to pick you up. Companions are subject to the same screening and security measures as passengers - valid State or Federal ID, human and belonging scans, etc. TSA does not have jurisdiction over Companion Pass issuance - that is at the discretion of the airlines - they are subject to the regs of the FAA. You can ask for a Guide at the airport as well. Generally airlines prefer you do this in advance, but you can certainly choose to make such a request when you arrive at the airport or land at your destination. If you don't let them know you need someone in advance though, you might have to wait longer for someone to arrive, as airlines try to have staff waiting for passengers about whom they know. We've all seen the line of wheel chairs and uniformed staff waiting when we deplane? Well, they're each usually assigned to a particular person, and they usually know who that person is ahead of time. Airlines, and sometimes airports, are increasingly creating "Passenger Assistance Departments," and escorting passengers is one of their primary functions. There are some airports that utilize the airport police or other airport staff as escorts rather than airline personnel. Sometimes this is because it is incredibly difficult to credential staff for all areas of an airport, which such staff need to possess. Sometimes it may be a small airport, and it would be more efficient to assign escort responsibilities to one person for all the airlines. Or there might be other reasons. However, TSOs - Transportation Security Officers) are trained in how to interact with disabled passengers. For example, if you place your cane on the conveyer belt, a TSO may offer to position you prior to entering the human scanner and reach out to hold your hands to guide you forward. Due to the nature of the scanning equipment, a passenger must not touch the scanning machine - it will not function properly if anything comes into contact with it. Some of us have had the experience of bumping the machine and setting it off in the past. If you run your cane through the baggage scanner and ask for it back to take through the human scanner, you have to be very careful, once again, not to tap the scanner walls with the cane - it will likely set the machine off. Also, if your cane has metal - many of us use metal tips - then it may cause the scanner to go off, necessitating the individual be referred to secondary screening or wanding. I've personally had the experience of placing my cane on the baggage scanning belt and walking toward the human scanner. I walked through the scanner very slowly and did not set it off. However, I was referred to secondary. I always ask why I'm being referred to Secondary (I'm in the business of wanting to know if I'm being discriminated against because of my religion, national origin, or disability). The answer I usually get (not always though, and I've got some funny stories about other times) is "it's random." I conveyed to the TSO that I could not move to the secondary screening area until someone retrieved my cane from the conveyer belt. He got it for me and asked, "Oh, is the reason you moved so slowly through the scanner because you are blind?" I answered that it was, and he told me I was free to go. I insisted on going to Secondary, and he said, "Well you don't need to. Your behavior isn't suspicious. I just thought it was because I didn't know you were being careful not to bump the machine since you couldn't see well." Part of their jobs as TSOs is to monitor suspicious behavior; part of my job is to convey the difference between suspicious behavior and cultural norms. Needless to say I insisted on going to Secondary because I wanted the chance to talk the issue through with the TSO. It was a teachable moment, and I think he really got there could be hundreds of reasons why someone might move slowly through a machine. But for those that have had really bad experiences at TSA or CBP checkpoints, there are a couple of different avenues you can take. If you believe you have been the subject of discrimination, you may file a CRCL (DHS Office for Civil Rights and Civil Liberties - and where I work) complaint. Go to _www.dhs.gov/civilliberties_ (http://www.dhs.gov/civilliberties) to download the form or send an email to _civil.liberties at dhs.gov_ (mailto:civil.liberties at dhs.gov) explaining what happened. Please be sure to give as much detail as possible, including the date, airport name, terminal number, time of day, the name of anyone you obtain, and a narrative explaining what happened. If you have a customer service issue - for example a TSO was rude or dismissive, you may ask for a supervisor, a comment card, or both. You can also contact your local field office after the fact to convey what happened. My message is substantially longer than I intended, and I apologize for the length. Regards, Ronza In a message dated 12/2/2009 4:25:21 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, ckrugman at sbcglobal.net writes: I travel frequently alone and the air lines and/or HSA provide needed assistence upon my request. including through security check points and picking up baggage and assistence with procuring ground transportation or to a waiting party. I have found HSA and airport staff to be very cooperative. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "stiehm.law" To: Cc: Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 12:57 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > In addition to the airlines, I have recently become curious as to what if > any, accommodations for the TSA makes with respect to disabled people > going through security and being picked up by somebody at the gate at the > terminal at the other end of the flight. For example, do they permit a > blind person who is traveling alone to be accompanied through security, > down to the airline check-in counter at the gate by a non-ticketed > person. > > At the other end, is a non-ticketed person permitted through security to > go to the gate to meet a blind person flying alone? > > If TSA does not provide for such accommodations do the airlines take it > on themselves to provide this service? > > Has anybody had any experience in this regard? Is the accommodation, if > any, voluntary on the part of the TSA and/or the airlines or is it > governed by regulation? > > Patrick H. Stiehm > Stiehm Law Office > Alexandria, VA 22309 > 703-360-1089 (Voice) > 703-935-8266 (Fax) > > > > Tue, 1 Dec 2009 11:30:37 -0800 "Russell J. Thomas, Jr." > writes: >> Off the top of my head, and without any new research, the only case >> I >> remember is a case challenging the accessibility of airline websites >> with >> respect to attempting to make reservations and ordering tickets on >> line. >> >> I also think that there are regulations on the subject, especially >> dealing >> with how disabled passengers are to be treated (or perhaps on some >> occasions >> mistreated). >> >> I often thought it would be a good idea for the NFB to put together >> a short >> guide book concerning travel, including air travel, based upon >> experiences >> of NFB members, to be used as a reference guide for blind people who >> use air >> travel. Certainly things have changed since 911--some changes for >> the good, >> and others not so good. >> >> >> >> >> Respectfully, >> >> >> >> Russell J. Thomas, Jr. >> >> THOMAS & ASSOCIATES >> >> www.californiaemployersattorneys.com >> >> >> >> Orange County Office >> >> 4121 Westerly Place, Suite 101 >> >> Newport Beach, California 92660 >> >> T: (949) 752-0101 >> >> F: (949) 257-4756 >> >> M: (949) 466-7238 >> >> >> >> Beverly Hills Office >> >> 9107 Wilshire Boulevard, Suite 450 >> >> Beverly Hills, California 90210 >> >> T: (310) 461-3561 >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf Of James Weisberg >> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 10:01 AM >> To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' >> Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel >> >> Hi Folks: >> >> >> >> Anyone on the lists have experience or knowledge regarding the ADA >> and suits >> against air carriers for violations available for quick consult? >> Thanks. >> >> >> >> James W. Weisberg, Esq. >> >> Law Office of J. William Weisberg >> >> 299 South Patencio Road #3 >> >> Palm Springs, California 92262 >> >> V: 916.425.1010 >> >> F: 916.374.7667 >> >> E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com >> >> Admitted in Wisconsin >> >> Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil >> Rights >> Advocacy for Children with Diabetes >> >> This message contains information which may be confidential and >> privileged. >> Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the >> addressee), >> you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any >> information >> contained in this message. If you have received this message in >> error, >> please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from >> your >> system. >> >> This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client >> relationship >> nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William >> Weisberg >> expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information >> in >> accordance with this disclaimer. >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for >> blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rthomas%40rjtla > wfi >> rm.com >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stiehm.law%40ju > no.com >> > > ____________________________________________________________ > Hotel > Hotel pics, info and virtual tours. Click here to book a hotel online. > http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/c?cp=ewJKbyZ61QloDsW_i_oQ_wAAJ1BdRO y9vkzpR6E_Fj7jZTbnAAYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAATRAAAAAA= > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob al.net _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/aznor99%40aol.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mildredrivera%40ya hoo.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/yasmin.reyazuddin% 40montgomerycountymd.gov _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mildredrivera%40ya hoo.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/aznor99%40aol.com From cdanielsen8 at aol.com Fri Dec 4 23:55:26 2009 From: cdanielsen8 at aol.com (Chris Danielsen) Date: Fri, 4 Dec 2009 18:55:26 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel In-Reply-To: <4B8F57570DE6486A93743958EB603CAC@StevePC> References: <4AB1D9B2FD1142EC9CAFDEFD47ACA108@Scorpio13> <4B8F57570DE6486A93743958EB603CAC@StevePC> Message-ID: I went exploring the first day and figured out the layout. The Carnival Pride was laid out in a fairly straightforward manner. It had several decks, but there was a listing in the Braille brochure of what was on each one so that you could find things. The cabin numbers and elevator buttons were all Brailled. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 7:52 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel That is very interesting. How did you navigate around an unfamiliar large ship? Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Danielsen" To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 7:08 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > Interesting observations about Carnival. When I went on the cruise that > was > organized by the NFB of Colorado in March, we had all of the Braille > materials in our cabins. Our waiter was very nice about reading the menus > each evening, even though he didn't speak English that well. I will > definitely ask for the menus on CD next time. Also, I wasn't aware there > was > any way to get the daily newsletter, so I'll be sure to ask about that the > next time I go. And I do intend to cruise again. When I was booking tours, > the guy at the desk casually informed me that he would let the tour > providers know that I was blind. This raised a red flag with me and I > asked > him why. He said it was to make sure that the providers could accommodate > and that there would be no access issues. I explained that blind people > have > very few "access issues" and that he was giving the providers an > opportunity > to discriminate. I probed him a little on whether he thought there were > certain things a blind guest couldn't do. He informed me that he had seen > blind guests participate in all kinds of activities, I think he > specifically > mentioned cliff diving, and was not trying to discriminate. I let it go. > None of the providers I did tours with gave me or any of the other NFB > folks > any problems, and I did not hear from other NFB friends about any > problems. > Of course, the tours I went on were not particularly strenuous; I am a > wimp. > I had some concerns about the dolphin encounter, but that went fine. In > fact, the trainer even made a point of letting me and a friend touch the > dolphin's teeth while he held her mouth open (they normally discourage > folks > from touching the mouth.) He didn't let us touch the nose or blowhole, > which > are off limits. I plan to try swimming with dolphins next time; the > dolphin > encounter is when you are on a shallow platform and the dolphin swims up > to > you. All of the Carnival folks were extremely friendly and I think they > were > trying to do the right thing. I came away with a mostly favorable > impression > of the company, although it still concerns me that they "flag" disabled > guests even if they really are doing it only to make sure that the guest > has > a good experience. I am sure that some contractors do discriminate, and > while Carnival is of course protecting itself, I wonder if they have a > legal > point. Other countries do not necessarily have the disability laws that we > do in the USA, and once you are on shore at a foreign port of call I am > not > sure U.S. law would "reach" businesses there. It reaches foreign cruise > lines only because their ships have ports of call in the U.S., if I > understand the law correctly. Carnival could make a point of not > contracting > with vendors who discriminate, however, and that would make a difference. > > Chris > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of AZNOR99 at aol.com > Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 8:56 AM > To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > > A couple of my blind friends and I are avid cruisers - we try to go at > least > once a year, and Carnival is our cruiseline of choice. In 2007, they > refused to allow us to sign up for a scuba diving excursion because of our > blindness - they said we'd be dangerous to other scuba divers. This was > absurd for all the obvious reasons and because we're all strong swimmers > and most of us are accomplished scuba divers. Carnival said that since > they contract with local venders to provide the excursions, and since > those > venders aren't in the United States, then the ADA does not apply. We > tried > to educate the cruise line, and I think they got it. But the scuba diving > contract holder did not and would not let us participate no matter what we > said. > I wish we'd have fought harder. > > That same year, we had a lot of trouble getting the onboard materials in > Braille or electronic formatting. We followed up with Corporate, and by > the time we arrived for our 2008 cruise, everything had been sorted out to > our liking in terms of materials. They now will send you a CD with menus, > guide books, and all the other material that's in the state room, and > they'll either Braille out the daily newsletter or put it on a flash drive > for you. > > In terms of excursions, we just always find an outside vender ourselves > now. > We can discuss blindness beforehand if we want, and we end up not feeling > beholden to the cruiseline for our fun off-ship. And we save a lot of > money in the process. > > My point is that I'm not sure if the cruiselines are all totally > accessible > now, but I think Carnival is doing a much better job then it used to do. > Also, I have no idea if the contracting venders in the ports are > discriminating against blind people - I bet they still are. > > Ronza > > > > In a message dated 12/3/2009 2:36:49 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, > ckrugman at sbcglobal.net writes: > > That's good to know as I think that Carnival was one of the cruise lines > that had issues regarding blind travelers several years ago. > Chuck > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc." > > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 2:40 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > > >> Chuck, I sell cruises amongst other things I do; mostly on Carnival; > they >> have been extremely good with all my passengers whether disabled or not. >> >> I have three groups going out in July and August of 2010, narrowly > missed >> a chance to get a group out to Alaska. >> >> Sincerely, >> Olusegun >> Denver, Colorado >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob > al.net > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/aznor99%40aol.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. > com > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature > database 4658 (20091203) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature > database 4659 (20091203) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in sightbb.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.426 / Virus Database: 270.14.92/2543 - Release Date: 12/03/09 19:36:00 _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4661 (20091204) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4661 (20091204) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From cdanielsen8 at aol.com Sat Dec 5 00:26:31 2009 From: cdanielsen8 at aol.com (Chris Danielsen) Date: Fri, 4 Dec 2009 19:26:31 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] state computer system case In-Reply-To: <66954123AD474303BCB4E25041063AC8@D3J75Z91> References: <66954123AD474303BCB4E25041063AC8@D3J75Z91> Message-ID: <9DED4B7FFF0E43C38271B04C0056EEAD@Scorpio13> There have been a couple, one against Arkansas which I know was settled and one against Texas which I don't know the status of. I think I have some of the documents and will get them to you on Monday if noone else has. Chris -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Patti Gregory-Chang Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 8:18 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: [blindlaw] state computer system case I know that there was a big computer access case against a state, maybe Arizona or Arkansas, in the past few years. Does anyone know the name of the case or have a copy of the settlement if any? P.S. National Federation of the Blind of Illinois is now on twitter at www.twitter.com/nfbi. We also have a facebook page. Just search for our full name. Patti Gregory-Chang President, National Federation of the Blind of Illinois pattichang at att.net www.nfbofillinois.org _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4656 (20091202) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4661 (20091204) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From editor.nftb at gmail.com Sat Dec 5 00:32:38 2009 From: editor.nftb at gmail.com (Will May) Date: Fri, 4 Dec 2009 19:32:38 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Canes on Planes .... I am not blind, and actually am an Air Transport Pilot Message-ID: Hi all; I will check the FAR/AIM (Federal Aviation Regulations/Airmen's Information Manual) for the cane question. Does anyone here know any ruling that requires newspapers to be accessible to the blind? I don't fly for pay anymore, I am editing a narrated newspaper; www.NewspapersForTheBlind.ORG for the hearing-impaired blind. Nice evening, Will May From AZNOR99 at aol.com Sat Dec 5 00:42:04 2009 From: AZNOR99 at aol.com (AZNOR99 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 4 Dec 2009 19:42:04 EST Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel/cruises Message-ID: We arranged for a tour of the ship prior to the muster drill. They do this for anyone that asks, not only folks with disabilities. It really helped. In a message dated 12/4/2009 7:31:55 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, cdanielsen8 at aol.com writes: I went exploring the first day and figured out the layout. The Carnival Pride was laid out in a fairly straightforward manner. It had several decks, but there was a listing in the Braille brochure of what was on each one so that you could find things. The cabin numbers and elevator buttons were all Brailled. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 7:52 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel That is very interesting. How did you navigate around an unfamiliar large ship? Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Danielsen" To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 7:08 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > Interesting observations about Carnival. When I went on the cruise that > was > organized by the NFB of Colorado in March, we had all of the Braille > materials in our cabins. Our waiter was very nice about reading the menus > each evening, even though he didn't speak English that well. I will > definitely ask for the menus on CD next time. Also, I wasn't aware there > was > any way to get the daily newsletter, so I'll be sure to ask about that the > next time I go. And I do intend to cruise again. When I was booking tours, > the guy at the desk casually informed me that he would let the tour > providers know that I was blind. This raised a red flag with me and I > asked > him why. He said it was to make sure that the providers could accommodate > and that there would be no access issues. I explained that blind people > have > very few "access issues" and that he was giving the providers an > opportunity > to discriminate. I probed him a little on whether he thought there were > certain things a blind guest couldn't do. He informed me that he had seen > blind guests participate in all kinds of activities, I think he > specifically > mentioned cliff diving, and was not trying to discriminate. I let it go. > None of the providers I did tours with gave me or any of the other NFB > folks > any problems, and I did not hear from other NFB friends about any > problems. > Of course, the tours I went on were not particularly strenuous; I am a > wimp. > I had some concerns about the dolphin encounter, but that went fine. In > fact, the trainer even made a point of letting me and a friend touch the > dolphin's teeth while he held her mouth open (they normally discourage > folks > from touching the mouth.) He didn't let us touch the nose or blowhole, > which > are off limits. I plan to try swimming with dolphins next time; the > dolphin > encounter is when you are on a shallow platform and the dolphin swims up > to > you. All of the Carnival folks were extremely friendly and I think they > were > trying to do the right thing. I came away with a mostly favorable > impression > of the company, although it still concerns me that they "flag" disabled > guests even if they really are doing it only to make sure that the guest > has > a good experience. I am sure that some contractors do discriminate, and > while Carnival is of course protecting itself, I wonder if they have a > legal > point. Other countries do not necessarily have the disability laws that we > do in the USA, and once you are on shore at a foreign port of call I am > not > sure U.S. law would "reach" businesses there. It reaches foreign cruise > lines only because their ships have ports of call in the U.S., if I > understand the law correctly. Carnival could make a point of not > contracting > with vendors who discriminate, however, and that would make a difference. > > Chris > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of AZNOR99 at aol.com > Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 8:56 AM > To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > > A couple of my blind friends and I are avid cruisers - we try to go at > least > once a year, and Carnival is our cruiseline of choice. In 2007, they > refused to allow us to sign up for a scuba diving excursion because of our > blindness - they said we'd be dangerous to other scuba divers. This was > absurd for all the obvious reasons and because we're all strong swimmers > and most of us are accomplished scuba divers. Carnival said that since > they contract with local venders to provide the excursions, and since > those > venders aren't in the United States, then the ADA does not apply. We > tried > to educate the cruise line, and I think they got it. But the scuba diving > contract holder did not and would not let us participate no matter what we > said. > I wish we'd have fought harder. > > That same year, we had a lot of trouble getting the onboard materials in > Braille or electronic formatting. We followed up with Corporate, and by > the time we arrived for our 2008 cruise, everything had been sorted out to > our liking in terms of materials. They now will send you a CD with menus, > guide books, and all the other material that's in the state room, and > they'll either Braille out the daily newsletter or put it on a flash drive > for you. > > In terms of excursions, we just always find an outside vender ourselves > now. > We can discuss blindness beforehand if we want, and we end up not feeling > beholden to the cruiseline for our fun off-ship. And we save a lot of > money in the process. > > My point is that I'm not sure if the cruiselines are all totally > accessible > now, but I think Carnival is doing a much better job then it used to do. > Also, I have no idea if the contracting venders in the ports are > discriminating against blind people - I bet they still are. > > Ronza > > > > In a message dated 12/3/2009 2:36:49 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, > ckrugman at sbcglobal.net writes: > > That's good to know as I think that Carnival was one of the cruise lines > that had issues regarding blind travelers several years ago. > Chuck > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc." > > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 2:40 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > > >> Chuck, I sell cruises amongst other things I do; mostly on Carnival; > they >> have been extremely good with all my passengers whether disabled or not. >> >> I have three groups going out in July and August of 2010, narrowly > missed >> a chance to get a group out to Alaska. >> >> Sincerely, >> Olusegun >> Denver, Colorado >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob > al.net > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/aznor99%40aol.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. > com > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature > database 4658 (20091203) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature > database 4659 (20091203) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in sightbb.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.426 / Virus Database: 270.14.92/2543 - Release Date: 12/03/09 19:36:00 _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4661 (20091204) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4661 (20091204) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/aznor99%40aol.com From stevep.deeley at insightbb.com Sat Dec 5 01:11:32 2009 From: stevep.deeley at insightbb.com (Steve P. Deeley) Date: Fri, 4 Dec 2009 20:11:32 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel In-Reply-To: References: <4AB1D9B2FD1142EC9CAFDEFD47ACA108@Scorpio13> <4B8F57570DE6486A93743958EB603CAC@StevePC> Message-ID: <92534B77C8CE4CD3BB61A886D19D6E20@StevePC> I think that is remarkable!!! I've heard that most sighted folks can't find their way around a large cruise ship Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Danielsen" To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 6:55 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel >I went exploring the first day and figured out the layout. The Carnival > Pride was laid out in a fairly straightforward manner. It had several > decks, > but there was a listing in the Braille brochure of what was on each one so > that you could find things. The cabin numbers and elevator buttons were > all > Brailled. > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley > Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 7:52 PM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > > That is very interesting. How did you navigate around an unfamiliar large > ship? > > Steve > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Chris Danielsen" > To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" > Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 7:08 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > > >> Interesting observations about Carnival. When I went on the cruise that >> was >> organized by the NFB of Colorado in March, we had all of the Braille >> materials in our cabins. Our waiter was very nice about reading the menus >> each evening, even though he didn't speak English that well. I will >> definitely ask for the menus on CD next time. Also, I wasn't aware there >> was >> any way to get the daily newsletter, so I'll be sure to ask about that >> the >> next time I go. And I do intend to cruise again. When I was booking >> tours, >> the guy at the desk casually informed me that he would let the tour >> providers know that I was blind. This raised a red flag with me and I >> asked >> him why. He said it was to make sure that the providers could accommodate >> and that there would be no access issues. I explained that blind people >> have >> very few "access issues" and that he was giving the providers an >> opportunity >> to discriminate. I probed him a little on whether he thought there were >> certain things a blind guest couldn't do. He informed me that he had seen >> blind guests participate in all kinds of activities, I think he >> specifically >> mentioned cliff diving, and was not trying to discriminate. I let it go. >> None of the providers I did tours with gave me or any of the other NFB >> folks >> any problems, and I did not hear from other NFB friends about any >> problems. >> Of course, the tours I went on were not particularly strenuous; I am a >> wimp. >> I had some concerns about the dolphin encounter, but that went fine. In >> fact, the trainer even made a point of letting me and a friend touch the >> dolphin's teeth while he held her mouth open (they normally discourage >> folks >> from touching the mouth.) He didn't let us touch the nose or blowhole, >> which >> are off limits. I plan to try swimming with dolphins next time; the >> dolphin >> encounter is when you are on a shallow platform and the dolphin swims up >> to >> you. All of the Carnival folks were extremely friendly and I think they >> were >> trying to do the right thing. I came away with a mostly favorable >> impression >> of the company, although it still concerns me that they "flag" disabled >> guests even if they really are doing it only to make sure that the guest >> has >> a good experience. I am sure that some contractors do discriminate, and >> while Carnival is of course protecting itself, I wonder if they have a >> legal >> point. Other countries do not necessarily have the disability laws that >> we >> do in the USA, and once you are on shore at a foreign port of call I am >> not >> sure U.S. law would "reach" businesses there. It reaches foreign cruise >> lines only because their ships have ports of call in the U.S., if I >> understand the law correctly. Carnival could make a point of not >> contracting >> with vendors who discriminate, however, and that would make a difference. >> >> Chris >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf Of AZNOR99 at aol.com >> Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 8:56 AM >> To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel >> >> A couple of my blind friends and I are avid cruisers - we try to go at >> least >> once a year, and Carnival is our cruiseline of choice. In 2007, they >> refused to allow us to sign up for a scuba diving excursion because of >> our >> blindness - they said we'd be dangerous to other scuba divers. This was >> absurd for all the obvious reasons and because we're all strong swimmers >> and most of us are accomplished scuba divers. Carnival said that since >> they contract with local venders to provide the excursions, and since >> those >> venders aren't in the United States, then the ADA does not apply. We >> tried >> to educate the cruise line, and I think they got it. But the scuba >> diving >> contract holder did not and would not let us participate no matter what >> we >> said. >> I wish we'd have fought harder. >> >> That same year, we had a lot of trouble getting the onboard materials in >> Braille or electronic formatting. We followed up with Corporate, and by >> the time we arrived for our 2008 cruise, everything had been sorted out >> to >> our liking in terms of materials. They now will send you a CD with >> menus, >> guide books, and all the other material that's in the state room, and >> they'll either Braille out the daily newsletter or put it on a flash >> drive >> for you. >> >> In terms of excursions, we just always find an outside vender ourselves >> now. >> We can discuss blindness beforehand if we want, and we end up not feeling >> beholden to the cruiseline for our fun off-ship. And we save a lot of >> money in the process. >> >> My point is that I'm not sure if the cruiselines are all totally >> accessible >> now, but I think Carnival is doing a much better job then it used to do. >> Also, I have no idea if the contracting venders in the ports are >> discriminating against blind people - I bet they still are. >> >> Ronza >> >> >> >> In a message dated 12/3/2009 2:36:49 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, >> ckrugman at sbcglobal.net writes: >> >> That's good to know as I think that Carnival was one of the cruise lines >> that had issues regarding blind travelers several years ago. >> Chuck >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc." >> >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 2:40 PM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel >> >> >>> Chuck, I sell cruises amongst other things I do; mostly on Carnival; >> they >>> have been extremely good with all my passengers whether disabled or >>> not. >>> >>> I have three groups going out in July and August of 2010, narrowly >> missed >>> a chance to get a group out to Alaska. >>> >>> Sincerely, >>> Olusegun >>> Denver, Colorado >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob >> al.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/aznor99%40aol.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. >> com >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >> signature >> database 4658 (20091203) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >> signature >> database 4659 (20091203) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in > sightbb.com > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.426 / Virus Database: 270.14.92/2543 - Release Date: 12/03/09 > 19:36:00 > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. > com > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature > database 4661 (20091204) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature > database 4661 (20091204) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.426 / Virus Database: 270.14.94/2545 - Release Date: 12/04/09 19:34:00 From pattichang at att.net Sat Dec 5 13:46:09 2009 From: pattichang at att.net (Patti Gregory-Chang) Date: Sat, 5 Dec 2009 07:46:09 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel / Canes References: Message-ID: <27D47090A64E4986A8D5EFBF6EC655D0@D3J75Z91> There is a subsection e in the regs that allows us to keep our canes as long as they are by the window. P.S. National Federation of the Blind of Illinois is now on twitter at www.twitter.com/nfbi. We also have a facebook page. Just search for our full name. Patti Gregory-Chang President, National Federation of the Blind of Illinois pattichang at att.net www.nfbofillinois.org ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 5:19 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel / Canes > I'm not sure. DHS doesn't have jurisdiction over what happens on the > planes themselves - that's Department of Transportation, so Craig might > know. > However, I know there are regs that prohibit loose items from being > permitted to remain loose during take-off and landing. That's usually how > the air > carriers get us to give up our canes. I lay my cane along the fusalage > as > well, Millie, and no one has ever said a word about that either. > > > > In a message dated 12/4/2009 9:34:40 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, > mildredrivera at yahoo.com writes: > > I prefer to use a long white cane. When I sit in the aisle, I just ask > the > person near the window if I can stow it there and no one has ever turned > me down. I was wondering if anyone knows, maybe Ronza, if I have a right > to > have the cane at my reach? I maintain that I do, but don't know any reg > or > airline policy that actually says that I do. > > Have a blessed day !!! :), Millie > > --- On Fri, 12/4/09, Reyazuddin, Yasmin > wrote: > > > From: Reyazuddin, Yasmin > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel / Canes > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Date: Friday, December 4, 2009, 8:06 AM > > > Hi Millie, > It has happened to me too. I have given them the cane and they have > placed > in a secure place. I was in the ile seat and had no wall near me. They > also put the cane in the overhead bin but are careful that it does not > fall > out. The airline staff are willing to help me get to the bathroom or > bring me > soft drinks. I am talking about long flights lasting 7 to 9 hours. > > Yasmin Reyazuddin > Information & Referral unit > Department of Health & human services > 401 Hungerford Drive (1st floor) > Rockville MD 20850 > Phone 240-777-1245 (info line) > 240-777-1556 (personal line) > Fax: 240-777-4636 > TTY: 240-777-1295 > > Office hours 8:30 am to 5:00 pm > > Languages English, Hindi, Urdu > > This message may contain protected health information or other > information > that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended > recipient, > please contact the sender by return mail and destroy any copies of this > material. > > Thank you. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of Millie Rivera-Rau > Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 10:19 PM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel / Canes > > I have a question. Lately my long white cane has been taken from me after > I get on the plane. Sometimes I can convince the personnel that I should > be > permitted to keep it but other times I am not successful. Is there > something that I can site that would get through to them? Or, am I > required to > relinquish it? For some reason it has been a problem more in the last two > years then ever before. I push it to a point just after making a scene. > smile. > The thing that really gets me is that they want to put it in an overhead > bin and usually it falls out as soon as the bin is opened and hits > someone on > the head! Then the other passengers realize I was right. Any thoughts. > > Millie > > > > > > --- On Wed, 12/2/09, AZNOR99 at aol.com wrote: > > > From: AZNOR99 at aol.com > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org > Date: Wednesday, December 2, 2009, 12:24 PM > > > Hello, > > This is an interesting subject. TSA is generally not responsible for > providing a traveler with a guide as a passenger goes through screening. > You > can always request a Companion Pass from the airline for someone to > accompany you; however, it is at the discretion of the airline as to > whether or not > they grant this request. Most do grant the Pass as long as you give > them > a valid reason, and most accept accompanying a minor or passenger with a > disability or elderly individual as a valid reason. You can request a > Companion Pass from the airline at the time of check-in if you bring > someone with > you to drop you off - you don't necessarily have to let the airline know > in advance that you plan to do this. If you want someone to meet you at > the > gate when you arrive though, you'll need to let the airline know in > advance. This is because you won't actually be with the person when > they > obtain > the Companion Pass, so the airline can't verify that they know you or > that > you'd want them to pick you up. Companions are subject to the same > screening and security measures as passengers - valid State or Federal > ID, human > and belonging scans, etc. TSA does not have jurisdiction over Companion > Pass issuance - that is at the discretion of the airlines - they are > subject > to the regs of the FAA. > > You can ask for a Guide at the airport as well. Generally airlines > prefer > you do this in advance, but you can certainly choose to make such a > request when you arrive at the airport or land at your destination. If > you don't > let them know you need someone in advance though, you might have to wait > longer for someone to arrive, as airlines try to have staff waiting for > passengers about whom they know. We've all seen the line of wheel chairs > and > uniformed staff waiting when we deplane? Well, they're each usually > assigned to a particular person, and they usually know who that person is > ahead of > time. Airlines, and sometimes airports, are increasingly creating > "Passenger Assistance Departments," and escorting passengers is one of > their > primary functions. > > There are some airports that utilize the airport police or other airport > staff as escorts rather than airline personnel. Sometimes this is > because > > it is incredibly difficult to credential staff for all areas of an > airport, > which such staff need to possess. Sometimes it may be a small airport, > and > it would be more efficient to assign escort responsibilities to one > person > for all the airlines. Or there might be other reasons. > > However, TSOs - Transportation Security Officers) are trained in how to > interact with disabled passengers. For example, if you place your cane > on > > the conveyer belt, a TSO may offer to position you prior to entering the > human > scanner and reach out to hold your hands to guide you forward. Due to > the > nature of the scanning equipment, a passenger must not touch the scanning > machine - it will not function properly if anything comes into contact > with > it. Some of us have had the experience of bumping the machine and > setting > it off in the past. > > If you run your cane through the baggage scanner and ask for it back to > take through the human scanner, you have to be very careful, once again, > not > to tap the scanner walls with the cane - it will likely set the machine > off. > Also, if your cane has metal - many of us use metal tips - then it may > cause the scanner to go off, necessitating the individual be referred to > secondary screening or wanding. > > I've personally had the experience of placing my cane on the baggage > scanning belt and walking toward the human scanner. I walked through the > scanner very slowly and did not set it off. However, I was referred to > secondary. I always ask why I'm being referred to Secondary (I'm in the > business of > wanting to know if I'm being discriminated against because of my > religion, > national origin, or disability). The answer I usually get (not always > though, and I've got some funny stories about other times) is "it's > random." > I conveyed to the TSO that I could not move to the secondary screening > area > until someone retrieved my cane from the conveyer belt. He got it for > me > and asked, "Oh, is the reason you moved so slowly through the scanner > because you are blind?" I answered that it was, and he told me I was > free > to go. > I insisted on going to Secondary, and he said, "Well you don't need to. > Your behavior isn't suspicious. I just thought it was because I didn't > know > you were being careful not to bump the machine since you couldn't see > well." Part of their jobs as TSOs is to monitor suspicious behavior; > part > of my > job is to convey the difference between suspicious behavior and cultural > > norms. Needless to say I insisted on going to Secondary because I wanted > the chance to talk the issue through with the TSO. It was a teachable > moment, > and I think he really got there could be hundreds of reasons why someone > might move slowly through a machine. > > But for those that have had really bad experiences at TSA or CBP > checkpoints, there are a couple of different avenues you can take. If > you > believe > you have been the subject of discrimination, you may file a CRCL (DHS > Office > for Civil Rights and Civil Liberties - and where I work) complaint. Go > to > _www.dhs.gov/civilliberties_ (http://www.dhs.gov/civilliberties) to > download the form or send an email to _civil.liberties at dhs.gov_ > (mailto:civil.liberties at dhs.gov) explaining what happened. Please be > sure to give as much > detail as possible, including the date, airport name, terminal number, > time > of day, the name of anyone you obtain, and a narrative explaining what > happened. If you have a customer service issue - for example a TSO was > rude > or dismissive, you may ask for a supervisor, a comment card, or both. > You > can also contact your local field office after the fact to convey what > happened. > > My message is substantially longer than I intended, and I apologize for > the > length. > > Regards, > Ronza > > > > > In a message dated 12/2/2009 4:25:21 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, > ckrugman at sbcglobal.net writes: > > I travel frequently alone and the air lines and/or HSA provide needed > assistence upon my request. including through security check points and > picking up baggage and assistence with procuring ground transportation > or > to > a waiting party. I have found HSA and airport staff to be very > cooperative. > Chuck > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "stiehm.law" > To: > Cc: > Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 12:57 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > > >> In addition to the airlines, I have recently become curious as to what > if >> any, accommodations for the TSA makes with respect to disabled people >> going through security and being picked up by somebody at the gate at > the >> terminal at the other end of the flight. For example, do they permit a >> blind person who is traveling alone to be accompanied through > security, >> down to the airline check-in counter at the gate by a non-ticketed >> person. >> >> At the other end, is a non-ticketed person permitted through security >> to >> go to the gate to meet a blind person flying alone? >> >> If TSA does not provide for such accommodations do the airlines take it >> on themselves to provide this service? >> >> Has anybody had any experience in this regard? Is the accommodation, if >> any, voluntary on the part of the TSA and/or the airlines or is it >> governed by regulation? >> >> Patrick H. Stiehm >> Stiehm Law Office >> Alexandria, VA 22309 >> 703-360-1089 (Voice) >> 703-935-8266 (Fax) >> >> >> >> Tue, 1 Dec 2009 11:30:37 -0800 "Russell J. Thomas, Jr." >> writes: >>> Off the top of my head, and without any new research, the only case >>> I >>> remember is a case challenging the accessibility of airline websites >>> with >>> respect to attempting to make reservations and ordering tickets on >>> line. >>> >>> I also think that there are regulations on the subject, especially >>> dealing >>> with how disabled passengers are to be treated (or perhaps on some >>> occasions >>> mistreated). >>> >>> I often thought it would be a good idea for the NFB to put together >>> a short >>> guide book concerning travel, including air travel, based upon >>> experiences >>> of NFB members, to be used as a reference guide for blind people who >>> use air >>> travel. Certainly things have changed since 911--some changes for >>> the good, >>> and others not so good. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Respectfully, >>> >>> >>> >>> Russell J. Thomas, Jr. >>> >>> THOMAS & ASSOCIATES >>> >>> www.californiaemployersattorneys.com >>> >>> >>> >>> Orange County Office >>> >>> 4121 Westerly Place, Suite 101 >>> >>> Newport Beach, California 92660 >>> >>> T: (949) 752-0101 >>> >>> F: (949) 257-4756 >>> >>> M: (949) 466-7238 >>> >>> >>> >>> Beverly Hills Office >>> >>> 9107 Wilshire Boulevard, Suite 450 >>> >>> Beverly Hills, California 90210 >>> >>> T: (310) 461-3561 >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>> Behalf Of James Weisberg >>> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 10:01 AM >>> To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' >>> Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel >>> >>> Hi Folks: >>> >>> >>> >>> Anyone on the lists have experience or knowledge regarding the ADA >>> and suits >>> against air carriers for violations available for quick consult? >>> Thanks. >>> >>> >>> >>> James W. Weisberg, Esq. >>> >>> Law Office of J. William Weisberg >>> >>> 299 South Patencio Road #3 >>> >>> Palm Springs, California 92262 >>> >>> V: 916.425.1010 >>> >>> F: 916.374.7667 >>> >>> E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com >>> >>> Admitted in Wisconsin >>> >>> Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil >>> Rights >>> Advocacy for Children with Diabetes >>> >>> This message contains information which may be confidential and >>> privileged. >>> Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the >>> addressee), >>> you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any >>> information >>> contained in this message. If you have received this message in >>> error, >>> please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from >>> your >>> system. >>> >>> This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client >>> relationship >>> nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William >>> Weisberg >>> expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information >>> in >>> accordance with this disclaimer. >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> blindlaw: >>> >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rthomas%40rjtla >> wfi >>> rm.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for blindlaw: >>> >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stiehm.law%40ju >> no.com >>> >> >> ____________________________________________________________ >> Hotel >> Hotel pics, info and virtual tours. Click here to book a hotel online. >> > http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/c?cp=ewJKbyZ61QloDsW_i_oQ_wAAJ1BdRO > y9vkzpR6E_Fj7jZTbnAAYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAATRAAAAAA= >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob > al.net > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/aznor99%40aol.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mildredrivera%40ya > hoo.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/yasmin.reyazuddin% > 40montgomerycountymd.gov > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mildredrivera%40ya > hoo.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/aznor99%40aol.com > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pattichang%40att.net From stevep.deeley at insightbb.com Sat Dec 5 14:30:54 2009 From: stevep.deeley at insightbb.com (Steve P. Deeley) Date: Sat, 5 Dec 2009 09:30:54 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel/cruises In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <529DD1D6839D461DB9D1CA95CD612986@StevePC> That is pretty good. Those ships are pretty large and getting bigger. Steve ----- Original Message --- -- From: To: Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 7:42 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel/cruises > We arranged for a tour of the ship prior to the muster drill. They do > this for anyone that asks, not only folks with disabilities. It really > helped. > > > > > In a message dated 12/4/2009 7:31:55 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, > cdanielsen8 at aol.com writes: > > I went exploring the first day and figured out the layout. The Carnival > Pride was laid out in a fairly straightforward manner. It had several > decks, > but there was a listing in the Braille brochure of what was on each one > so > that you could find things. The cabin numbers and elevator buttons were > all > Brailled. > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley > Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 7:52 PM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > > That is very interesting. How did you navigate around an unfamiliar > large > ship? > > Steve > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Chris Danielsen" > To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" > Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 7:08 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > > >> Interesting observations about Carnival. When I went on the cruise that >> was >> organized by the NFB of Colorado in March, we had all of the Braille >> materials in our cabins. Our waiter was very nice about reading the >> menus >> each evening, even though he didn't speak English that well. I will >> definitely ask for the menus on CD next time. Also, I wasn't aware there >> was >> any way to get the daily newsletter, so I'll be sure to ask about that > the >> next time I go. And I do intend to cruise again. When I was booking > tours, >> the guy at the desk casually informed me that he would let the tour >> providers know that I was blind. This raised a red flag with me and I >> asked >> him why. He said it was to make sure that the providers could >> accommodate >> and that there would be no access issues. I explained that blind people >> have >> very few "access issues" and that he was giving the providers an >> opportunity >> to discriminate. I probed him a little on whether he thought there were >> certain things a blind guest couldn't do. He informed me that he had >> seen >> blind guests participate in all kinds of activities, I think he >> specifically >> mentioned cliff diving, and was not trying to discriminate. I let it go. >> None of the providers I did tours with gave me or any of the other NFB >> folks >> any problems, and I did not hear from other NFB friends about any >> problems. >> Of course, the tours I went on were not particularly strenuous; I am a >> wimp. >> I had some concerns about the dolphin encounter, but that went fine. In >> fact, the trainer even made a point of letting me and a friend touch the >> dolphin's teeth while he held her mouth open (they normally discourage >> folks >> from touching the mouth.) He didn't let us touch the nose or blowhole, >> which >> are off limits. I plan to try swimming with dolphins next time; the >> dolphin >> encounter is when you are on a shallow platform and the dolphin swims up > >> to >> you. All of the Carnival folks were extremely friendly and I think they >> were >> trying to do the right thing. I came away with a mostly favorable >> impression >> of the company, although it still concerns me that they "flag" disabled >> guests even if they really are doing it only to make sure that the guest >> has >> a good experience. I am sure that some contractors do discriminate, and >> while Carnival is of course protecting itself, I wonder if they have a >> legal >> point. Other countries do not necessarily have the disability laws that > we >> do in the USA, and once you are on shore at a foreign port of call I am >> not >> sure U.S. law would "reach" businesses there. It reaches foreign cruise >> lines only because their ships have ports of call in the U.S., if I >> understand the law correctly. Carnival could make a point of not >> contracting >> with vendors who discriminate, however, and that would make a > difference. >> >> Chris >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >> On >> Behalf Of AZNOR99 at aol.com >> Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 8:56 AM >> To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel >> >> A couple of my blind friends and I are avid cruisers - we try to go at >> least >> once a year, and Carnival is our cruiseline of choice. In 2007, they >> refused to allow us to sign up for a scuba diving excursion because of > our >> blindness - they said we'd be dangerous to other scuba divers. This was >> absurd for all the obvious reasons and because we're all strong swimmers >> and most of us are accomplished scuba divers. Carnival said that since >> they contract with local venders to provide the excursions, and since >> those >> venders aren't in the United States, then the ADA does not apply. We >> tried >> to educate the cruise line, and I think they got it. But the scuba > diving >> contract holder did not and would not let us participate no matter what > we >> said. >> I wish we'd have fought harder. >> >> That same year, we had a lot of trouble getting the onboard materials in >> Braille or electronic formatting. We followed up with Corporate, and by >> the time we arrived for our 2008 cruise, everything had been sorted out > to >> our liking in terms of materials. They now will send you a CD with > menus, >> guide books, and all the other material that's in the state room, and >> they'll either Braille out the daily newsletter or put it on a flash > drive >> for you. >> >> In terms of excursions, we just always find an outside vender ourselves >> now. >> We can discuss blindness beforehand if we want, and we end up not >> feeling >> beholden to the cruiseline for our fun off-ship. And we save a lot of >> money in the process. >> >> My point is that I'm not sure if the cruiselines are all totally >> accessible >> now, but I think Carnival is doing a much better job then it used to do. >> Also, I have no idea if the contracting venders in the ports are >> discriminating against blind people - I bet they still are. >> >> Ronza >> >> >> >> In a message dated 12/3/2009 2:36:49 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, >> ckrugman at sbcglobal.net writes: >> >> That's good to know as I think that Carnival was one of the cruise >> lines >> that had issues regarding blind travelers several years ago. >> Chuck >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc." >> >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 2:40 PM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel >> >> >>> Chuck, I sell cruises amongst other things I do; mostly on Carnival; >> they >>> have been extremely good with all my passengers whether disabled or > not. >>> >>> I have three groups going out in July and August of 2010, narrowly >> missed >>> a chance to get a group out to Alaska. >>> >>> Sincerely, >>> Olusegun >>> Denver, Colorado >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob >> al.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/aznor99%40aol.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. >> com >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >> signature >> database 4658 (20091203) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >> signature >> database 4659 (20091203) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in > sightbb.com > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.426 / Virus Database: 270.14.92/2543 - Release Date: > 12/03/09 > > 19:36:00 > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. > com > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature > database 4661 (20091204) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature > database 4661 (20091204) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/aznor99%40aol.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.426 / Virus Database: 270.14.94/2545 - Release Date: 12/04/09 19:34:00 From dandrews at visi.com Sat Dec 5 16:23:34 2009 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Sat, 05 Dec 2009 10:23:34 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] Last Chance to Help Braille Literacy with Coin Purchase Message-ID: Christmas Header The holiday season is upon us—a time when we turn our focus, more than any other part of the year, to giving. This year, give a gift that really counts—a future full of opportunity for a blind child! Today far too many blind children and adults in America are being refused Braille instruction by both schools and rehabilitation agencies, and many who are receiving a Braille education are given inadequate instruction. There is a way you can help. When you purchase the Louis Braille Bicentennial Silver Dollar, not only will you receive the first U.S. coin to feature readable, tactile Braille, but $10 from the sale of each coin will also go to the National Federation of the Blind’s efforts to end this Braille literacy crisis. That’s a gift anyone would be proud to give. But time is running out! You have just a few days left to purchase this exceptional coin and leave your mark on this crisis. Visit the U.S. Mint’s Web site or www.braille.org, or call 1-800-USA-MINT (872-6468) by December 11, 2009, to give the gift of Braille literacy today. The United States Mint guarantees delivery by December 25, 2009, on any in-stock item, anywhere in the United States on orders placed by December 7, 2009, for standard delivery, and December 11, 2009, for express delivery. Orders over $300 will receive free expedited shipping. If you've already purchased the Louis Braille Bicentennial Silver Dollar, consider making a matching gift to the “Braille Readers are Leaders” campaign. It is a great way to multiply the impact of your purchase. We at the National Federation of the Blind thank you for your devotion to America’s blind and wish you the happiest of holiday seasons! Braille Coin (Black & White) To learn more about the 2009 Louis Braille Bicentennial Silver Dollar, the Braille literacy crisis, and the Braille Readers are Leaders campaign, visit www.braille.org. National Federation of the Blind 200 East Wells Street at Jernigan Place Baltimore, Maryland 21230 (410) 659-9314 Fax (410) 659-5129 From jimi-law at dc.rr.com Sat Dec 5 17:31:23 2009 From: jimi-law at dc.rr.com (James Weisberg) Date: Sat, 5 Dec 2009 09:31:23 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel / Canes In-Reply-To: <27D47090A64E4986A8D5EFBF6EC655D0@D3J75Z91> References: <27D47090A64E4986A8D5EFBF6EC655D0@D3J75Z91> Message-ID: Can you provide me a citation so I can check it out? Thanks. James W. Weisberg, Esq. Law Office of J. William Weisberg 299 South Patencio Road #3 Palm Springs, California 92262 V: 916.425.1010 F: 916.374.7667 E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com Admitted in Wisconsin Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil Rights Advocacy for Children with Diabetes This message contains information which may be confidential and privileged. Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from your system. This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client relationship nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William Weisberg expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in accordance with this disclaimer. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Patti Gregory-Chang Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 5:46 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel / Canes There is a subsection e in the regs that allows us to keep our canes as long as they are by the window. P.S. National Federation of the Blind of Illinois is now on twitter at www.twitter.com/nfbi. We also have a facebook page. Just search for our full name. Patti Gregory-Chang President, National Federation of the Blind of Illinois pattichang at att.net www.nfbofillinois.org ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 5:19 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel / Canes > I'm not sure. DHS doesn't have jurisdiction over what happens on the > planes themselves - that's Department of Transportation, so Craig might > know. > However, I know there are regs that prohibit loose items from being > permitted to remain loose during take-off and landing. That's usually how > the air > carriers get us to give up our canes. I lay my cane along the fusalage > as > well, Millie, and no one has ever said a word about that either. > > > > In a message dated 12/4/2009 9:34:40 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, > mildredrivera at yahoo.com writes: > > I prefer to use a long white cane. When I sit in the aisle, I just ask > the > person near the window if I can stow it there and no one has ever turned > me down. I was wondering if anyone knows, maybe Ronza, if I have a right > to > have the cane at my reach? I maintain that I do, but don't know any reg > or > airline policy that actually says that I do. > > Have a blessed day !!! :), Millie > > --- On Fri, 12/4/09, Reyazuddin, Yasmin > wrote: > > > From: Reyazuddin, Yasmin > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel / Canes > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Date: Friday, December 4, 2009, 8:06 AM > > > Hi Millie, > It has happened to me too. I have given them the cane and they have > placed > in a secure place. I was in the ile seat and had no wall near me. They > also put the cane in the overhead bin but are careful that it does not > fall > out. The airline staff are willing to help me get to the bathroom or > bring me > soft drinks. I am talking about long flights lasting 7 to 9 hours. > > Yasmin Reyazuddin > Information & Referral unit > Department of Health & human services > 401 Hungerford Drive (1st floor) > Rockville MD 20850 > Phone 240-777-1245 (info line) > 240-777-1556 (personal line) > Fax: 240-777-4636 > TTY: 240-777-1295 > > Office hours 8:30 am to 5:00 pm > > Languages English, Hindi, Urdu > > This message may contain protected health information or other > information > that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended > recipient, > please contact the sender by return mail and destroy any copies of this > material. > > Thank you. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of Millie Rivera-Rau > Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 10:19 PM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel / Canes > > I have a question. Lately my long white cane has been taken from me after > I get on the plane. Sometimes I can convince the personnel that I should > be > permitted to keep it but other times I am not successful. Is there > something that I can site that would get through to them? Or, am I > required to > relinquish it? For some reason it has been a problem more in the last two > years then ever before. I push it to a point just after making a scene. > smile. > The thing that really gets me is that they want to put it in an overhead > bin and usually it falls out as soon as the bin is opened and hits > someone on > the head! Then the other passengers realize I was right. Any thoughts. > > Millie > > > > > > --- On Wed, 12/2/09, AZNOR99 at aol.com wrote: > > > From: AZNOR99 at aol.com > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org > Date: Wednesday, December 2, 2009, 12:24 PM > > > Hello, > > This is an interesting subject. TSA is generally not responsible for > providing a traveler with a guide as a passenger goes through screening. > You > can always request a Companion Pass from the airline for someone to > accompany you; however, it is at the discretion of the airline as to > whether or not > they grant this request. Most do grant the Pass as long as you give > them > a valid reason, and most accept accompanying a minor or passenger with a > disability or elderly individual as a valid reason. You can request a > Companion Pass from the airline at the time of check-in if you bring > someone with > you to drop you off - you don't necessarily have to let the airline know > in advance that you plan to do this. If you want someone to meet you at > the > gate when you arrive though, you'll need to let the airline know in > advance. This is because you won't actually be with the person when > they > obtain > the Companion Pass, so the airline can't verify that they know you or > that > you'd want them to pick you up. Companions are subject to the same > screening and security measures as passengers - valid State or Federal > ID, human > and belonging scans, etc. TSA does not have jurisdiction over Companion > Pass issuance - that is at the discretion of the airlines - they are > subject > to the regs of the FAA. > > You can ask for a Guide at the airport as well. Generally airlines > prefer > you do this in advance, but you can certainly choose to make such a > request when you arrive at the airport or land at your destination. If > you don't > let them know you need someone in advance though, you might have to wait > longer for someone to arrive, as airlines try to have staff waiting for > passengers about whom they know. We've all seen the line of wheel chairs > and > uniformed staff waiting when we deplane? Well, they're each usually > assigned to a particular person, and they usually know who that person is > ahead of > time. Airlines, and sometimes airports, are increasingly creating > "Passenger Assistance Departments," and escorting passengers is one of > their > primary functions. > > There are some airports that utilize the airport police or other airport > staff as escorts rather than airline personnel. Sometimes this is > because > > it is incredibly difficult to credential staff for all areas of an > airport, > which such staff need to possess. Sometimes it may be a small airport, > and > it would be more efficient to assign escort responsibilities to one > person > for all the airlines. Or there might be other reasons. > > However, TSOs - Transportation Security Officers) are trained in how to > interact with disabled passengers. For example, if you place your cane > on > > the conveyer belt, a TSO may offer to position you prior to entering the > human > scanner and reach out to hold your hands to guide you forward. Due to > the > nature of the scanning equipment, a passenger must not touch the scanning > machine - it will not function properly if anything comes into contact > with > it. Some of us have had the experience of bumping the machine and > setting > it off in the past. > > If you run your cane through the baggage scanner and ask for it back to > take through the human scanner, you have to be very careful, once again, > not > to tap the scanner walls with the cane - it will likely set the machine > off. > Also, if your cane has metal - many of us use metal tips - then it may > cause the scanner to go off, necessitating the individual be referred to > secondary screening or wanding. > > I've personally had the experience of placing my cane on the baggage > scanning belt and walking toward the human scanner. I walked through the > scanner very slowly and did not set it off. However, I was referred to > secondary. I always ask why I'm being referred to Secondary (I'm in the > business of > wanting to know if I'm being discriminated against because of my > religion, > national origin, or disability). The answer I usually get (not always > though, and I've got some funny stories about other times) is "it's > random." > I conveyed to the TSO that I could not move to the secondary screening > area > until someone retrieved my cane from the conveyer belt. He got it for > me > and asked, "Oh, is the reason you moved so slowly through the scanner > because you are blind?" I answered that it was, and he told me I was > free > to go. > I insisted on going to Secondary, and he said, "Well you don't need to. > Your behavior isn't suspicious. I just thought it was because I didn't > know > you were being careful not to bump the machine since you couldn't see > well." Part of their jobs as TSOs is to monitor suspicious behavior; > part > of my > job is to convey the difference between suspicious behavior and cultural > > norms. Needless to say I insisted on going to Secondary because I wanted > the chance to talk the issue through with the TSO. It was a teachable > moment, > and I think he really got there could be hundreds of reasons why someone > might move slowly through a machine. > > But for those that have had really bad experiences at TSA or CBP > checkpoints, there are a couple of different avenues you can take. If > you > believe > you have been the subject of discrimination, you may file a CRCL (DHS > Office > for Civil Rights and Civil Liberties - and where I work) complaint. Go > to > _www.dhs.gov/civilliberties_ (http://www.dhs.gov/civilliberties) to > download the form or send an email to _civil.liberties at dhs.gov_ > (mailto:civil.liberties at dhs.gov) explaining what happened. Please be > sure to give as much > detail as possible, including the date, airport name, terminal number, > time > of day, the name of anyone you obtain, and a narrative explaining what > happened. If you have a customer service issue - for example a TSO was > rude > or dismissive, you may ask for a supervisor, a comment card, or both. > You > can also contact your local field office after the fact to convey what > happened. > > My message is substantially longer than I intended, and I apologize for > the > length. > > Regards, > Ronza > > > > > In a message dated 12/2/2009 4:25:21 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, > ckrugman at sbcglobal.net writes: > > I travel frequently alone and the air lines and/or HSA provide needed > assistence upon my request. including through security check points and > picking up baggage and assistence with procuring ground transportation > or > to > a waiting party. I have found HSA and airport staff to be very > cooperative. > Chuck > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "stiehm.law" > To: > Cc: > Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 12:57 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > > >> In addition to the airlines, I have recently become curious as to what > if >> any, accommodations for the TSA makes with respect to disabled people >> going through security and being picked up by somebody at the gate at > the >> terminal at the other end of the flight. For example, do they permit a >> blind person who is traveling alone to be accompanied through > security, >> down to the airline check-in counter at the gate by a non-ticketed >> person. >> >> At the other end, is a non-ticketed person permitted through security >> to >> go to the gate to meet a blind person flying alone? >> >> If TSA does not provide for such accommodations do the airlines take it >> on themselves to provide this service? >> >> Has anybody had any experience in this regard? Is the accommodation, if >> any, voluntary on the part of the TSA and/or the airlines or is it >> governed by regulation? >> >> Patrick H. Stiehm >> Stiehm Law Office >> Alexandria, VA 22309 >> 703-360-1089 (Voice) >> 703-935-8266 (Fax) >> >> >> >> Tue, 1 Dec 2009 11:30:37 -0800 "Russell J. Thomas, Jr." >> writes: >>> Off the top of my head, and without any new research, the only case >>> I >>> remember is a case challenging the accessibility of airline websites >>> with >>> respect to attempting to make reservations and ordering tickets on >>> line. >>> >>> I also think that there are regulations on the subject, especially >>> dealing >>> with how disabled passengers are to be treated (or perhaps on some >>> occasions >>> mistreated). >>> >>> I often thought it would be a good idea for the NFB to put together >>> a short >>> guide book concerning travel, including air travel, based upon >>> experiences >>> of NFB members, to be used as a reference guide for blind people who >>> use air >>> travel. Certainly things have changed since 911--some changes for >>> the good, >>> and others not so good. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Respectfully, >>> >>> >>> >>> Russell J. Thomas, Jr. >>> >>> THOMAS & ASSOCIATES >>> >>> www.californiaemployersattorneys.com >>> >>> >>> >>> Orange County Office >>> >>> 4121 Westerly Place, Suite 101 >>> >>> Newport Beach, California 92660 >>> >>> T: (949) 752-0101 >>> >>> F: (949) 257-4756 >>> >>> M: (949) 466-7238 >>> >>> >>> >>> Beverly Hills Office >>> >>> 9107 Wilshire Boulevard, Suite 450 >>> >>> Beverly Hills, California 90210 >>> >>> T: (310) 461-3561 >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>> Behalf Of James Weisberg >>> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 10:01 AM >>> To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' >>> Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel >>> >>> Hi Folks: >>> >>> >>> >>> Anyone on the lists have experience or knowledge regarding the ADA >>> and suits >>> against air carriers for violations available for quick consult? >>> Thanks. >>> >>> >>> >>> James W. Weisberg, Esq. >>> >>> Law Office of J. William Weisberg >>> >>> 299 South Patencio Road #3 >>> >>> Palm Springs, California 92262 >>> >>> V: 916.425.1010 >>> >>> F: 916.374.7667 >>> >>> E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com >>> >>> Admitted in Wisconsin >>> >>> Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil >>> Rights >>> Advocacy for Children with Diabetes >>> >>> This message contains information which may be confidential and >>> privileged. >>> Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the >>> addressee), >>> you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any >>> information >>> contained in this message. If you have received this message in >>> error, >>> please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from >>> your >>> system. >>> >>> This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client >>> relationship >>> nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William >>> Weisberg >>> expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information >>> in >>> accordance with this disclaimer. >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> blindlaw: >>> >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rthomas%40rjtla >> wfi >>> rm.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for blindlaw: >>> >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stiehm.law%40ju >> no.com >>> >> >> ____________________________________________________________ >> Hotel >> Hotel pics, info and virtual tours. Click here to book a hotel online. >> > http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/c?cp=ewJKbyZ61QloDsW_i_oQ_wAAJ1BdRO > y9vkzpR6E_Fj7jZTbnAAYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAATRAAAAAA= >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob > al.net > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/aznor99%40aol.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mildredrivera%40ya > hoo.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/yasmin.reyazuddin% > 40montgomerycountymd.gov > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mildredrivera%40ya > hoo.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/aznor99%40aol.com > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pattichang%40att.n et _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jimi-law%40dc.rr.c om __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4661 (20091204) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4661 (20091204) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4662 (20091205) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4662 (20091205) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com From joramsey at cox.net Sat Dec 5 17:56:07 2009 From: joramsey at cox.net (John Ramsey) Date: Sat, 5 Dec 2009 12:56:07 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Research list Message-ID: <4DB75B50A8F5412A87528ADCC34271D2@noneeb869fea9a> A couple of weeks ago there was a discussion about finding caseslaw on Google and it sounded like it was a research specific version of Google. Does anyone know if this is a good resource to find free articles? If so, what is the address? Thanks, John John A. Ramsey Jr., Esq. Gainesville, FL 32609 (352) 505-6642 This communication contains information that may be confidential and/or legally privileged. It is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. If you have received this communication in error, please call us at (352) 505-6642 and destroy any associated printed materials and delete the electronic material from any computer. Please be aware that any unauthorized disclosure, use or publication of this communication or the information it contains may result in criminal and/or civil liability. Due to this message being transmitted over the Internet, John Ramsey cannot assure that the messages are secure. If you are uncomfortable with such risks, you may decide not to use email to communicate with John Ramsey. Please contact us immediately at (352) 505-6642 if you decide not to use email. You must also be aware that email messages may be delayed or undelivered through circumstances beyond our control. Thank you. From timandvickie at hotmail.com Sat Dec 5 20:11:45 2009 From: timandvickie at hotmail.com (Tim Shaw) Date: Sat, 5 Dec 2009 20:11:45 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel / Canes In-Reply-To: References: , <27D47090A64E4986A8D5EFBF6EC655D0@D3J75Z91>, Message-ID: Anyone happen to have a contact number I can use for requesting assistance within the airport from American Airlines/American Eagle? I have been searchign and can not seem to finda number. There sight says I can request assistance when checking in the day of trvel, but I would like to set it up in advance if possible and I want to check in online so wouldnt have to wait in the long lines at the counter. > From: jimi-law at dc.rr.com > To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org > Date: Sat, 5 Dec 2009 09:31:23 -0800 > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel / Canes > > Can you provide me a citation so I can check it out? Thanks. > > James W. Weisberg, Esq. > > Law Office of J. William Weisberg > > 299 South Patencio Road #3 > > Palm Springs, California 92262 > > V: 916.425.1010 > > F: 916.374.7667 > > E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com > > Admitted in Wisconsin > > Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil Rights > Advocacy for Children with Diabetes > > This message contains information which may be confidential and privileged. > Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), > you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information > contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, > please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from your > system. > > This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client relationship > nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William Weisberg > expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in > accordance with this disclaimer. > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of Patti Gregory-Chang > Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 5:46 AM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel / Canes > > There is a subsection e in the regs that allows us to keep our canes as long > > as they are by the window. > > P.S. National Federation of the Blind of Illinois is now on twitter at > www.twitter.com/nfbi. > We also have a facebook page. Just search for our full name. > > Patti Gregory-Chang > President, National Federation of the Blind of Illinois > pattichang at att.net > www.nfbofillinois.org > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 5:19 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel / Canes > > > > I'm not sure. DHS doesn't have jurisdiction over what happens on the > > planes themselves - that's Department of Transportation, so Craig might > > know. > > However, I know there are regs that prohibit loose items from being > > permitted to remain loose during take-off and landing. That's usually how > > > the air > > carriers get us to give up our canes. I lay my cane along the fusalage > > as > > well, Millie, and no one has ever said a word about that either. > > > > > > > > In a message dated 12/4/2009 9:34:40 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, > > mildredrivera at yahoo.com writes: > > > > I prefer to use a long white cane. When I sit in the aisle, I just ask > > the > > person near the window if I can stow it there and no one has ever turned > > me down. I was wondering if anyone knows, maybe Ronza, if I have a right > > to > > have the cane at my reach? I maintain that I do, but don't know any reg > > or > > airline policy that actually says that I do. > > > > Have a blessed day !!! :), Millie > > > > --- On Fri, 12/4/09, Reyazuddin, Yasmin > > wrote: > > > > > > From: Reyazuddin, Yasmin > > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel / Canes > > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > > Date: Friday, December 4, 2009, 8:06 AM > > > > > > Hi Millie, > > It has happened to me too. I have given them the cane and they have > > placed > > in a secure place. I was in the ile seat and had no wall near me. They > > also put the cane in the overhead bin but are careful that it does not > > fall > > out. The airline staff are willing to help me get to the bathroom or > > bring me > > soft drinks. I am talking about long flights lasting 7 to 9 hours. > > > > Yasmin Reyazuddin > > Information & Referral unit > > Department of Health & human services > > 401 Hungerford Drive (1st floor) > > Rockville MD 20850 > > Phone 240-777-1245 (info line) > > 240-777-1556 (personal line) > > Fax: 240-777-4636 > > TTY: 240-777-1295 > > > > Office hours 8:30 am to 5:00 pm > > > > Languages English, Hindi, Urdu > > > > This message may contain protected health information or other > > information > > that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended > > recipient, > > please contact the sender by return mail and destroy any copies of this > > material. > > > > Thank you. > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > > Behalf Of Millie Rivera-Rau > > Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 10:19 PM > > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel / Canes > > > > I have a question. Lately my long white cane has been taken from me after > > I get on the plane. Sometimes I can convince the personnel that I should > > be > > permitted to keep it but other times I am not successful. Is there > > something that I can site that would get through to them? Or, am I > > required to > > relinquish it? For some reason it has been a problem more in the last two > > years then ever before. I push it to a point just after making a scene. > > smile. > > The thing that really gets me is that they want to put it in an overhead > > bin and usually it falls out as soon as the bin is opened and hits > > someone on > > the head! Then the other passengers realize I was right. Any thoughts. > > > > Millie > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Wed, 12/2/09, AZNOR99 at aol.com wrote: > > > > > > From: AZNOR99 at aol.com > > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > > To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > Date: Wednesday, December 2, 2009, 12:24 PM > > > > > > Hello, > > > > This is an interesting subject. TSA is generally not responsible for > > providing a traveler with a guide as a passenger goes through screening. > > You > > can always request a Companion Pass from the airline for someone to > > accompany you; however, it is at the discretion of the airline as to > > whether or not > > they grant this request. Most do grant the Pass as long as you give > > them > > a valid reason, and most accept accompanying a minor or passenger with a > > disability or elderly individual as a valid reason. You can request a > > Companion Pass from the airline at the time of check-in if you bring > > someone with > > you to drop you off - you don't necessarily have to let the airline know > > in advance that you plan to do this. If you want someone to meet you at > > the > > gate when you arrive though, you'll need to let the airline know in > > advance. This is because you won't actually be with the person when > > they > > obtain > > the Companion Pass, so the airline can't verify that they know you or > > that > > you'd want them to pick you up. Companions are subject to the same > > screening and security measures as passengers - valid State or Federal > > ID, human > > and belonging scans, etc. TSA does not have jurisdiction over Companion > > Pass issuance - that is at the discretion of the airlines - they are > > subject > > to the regs of the FAA. > > > > You can ask for a Guide at the airport as well. Generally airlines > > prefer > > you do this in advance, but you can certainly choose to make such a > > request when you arrive at the airport or land at your destination. If > > you don't > > let them know you need someone in advance though, you might have to wait > > longer for someone to arrive, as airlines try to have staff waiting for > > passengers about whom they know. We've all seen the line of wheel chairs > > and > > uniformed staff waiting when we deplane? Well, they're each usually > > assigned to a particular person, and they usually know who that person is > > ahead of > > time. Airlines, and sometimes airports, are increasingly creating > > "Passenger Assistance Departments," and escorting passengers is one of > > their > > primary functions. > > > > There are some airports that utilize the airport police or other airport > > staff as escorts rather than airline personnel. Sometimes this is > > because > > > > it is incredibly difficult to credential staff for all areas of an > > airport, > > which such staff need to possess. Sometimes it may be a small airport, > > and > > it would be more efficient to assign escort responsibilities to one > > person > > for all the airlines. Or there might be other reasons. > > > > However, TSOs - Transportation Security Officers) are trained in how to > > interact with disabled passengers. For example, if you place your cane > > on > > > > the conveyer belt, a TSO may offer to position you prior to entering the > > human > > scanner and reach out to hold your hands to guide you forward. Due to > > the > > nature of the scanning equipment, a passenger must not touch the scanning > > machine - it will not function properly if anything comes into contact > > with > > it. Some of us have had the experience of bumping the machine and > > setting > > it off in the past. > > > > If you run your cane through the baggage scanner and ask for it back to > > take through the human scanner, you have to be very careful, once again, > > not > > to tap the scanner walls with the cane - it will likely set the machine > > off. > > Also, if your cane has metal - many of us use metal tips - then it may > > cause the scanner to go off, necessitating the individual be referred to > > secondary screening or wanding. > > > > I've personally had the experience of placing my cane on the baggage > > scanning belt and walking toward the human scanner. I walked through the > > scanner very slowly and did not set it off. However, I was referred to > > secondary. I always ask why I'm being referred to Secondary (I'm in the > > business of > > wanting to know if I'm being discriminated against because of my > > religion, > > national origin, or disability). The answer I usually get (not always > > though, and I've got some funny stories about other times) is "it's > > random." > > I conveyed to the TSO that I could not move to the secondary screening > > area > > until someone retrieved my cane from the conveyer belt. He got it for > > me > > and asked, "Oh, is the reason you moved so slowly through the scanner > > because you are blind?" I answered that it was, and he told me I was > > free > > to go. > > I insisted on going to Secondary, and he said, "Well you don't need to. > > Your behavior isn't suspicious. I just thought it was because I didn't > > know > > you were being careful not to bump the machine since you couldn't see > > well." Part of their jobs as TSOs is to monitor suspicious behavior; > > part > > of my > > job is to convey the difference between suspicious behavior and cultural > > > > norms. Needless to say I insisted on going to Secondary because I wanted > > the chance to talk the issue through with the TSO. It was a teachable > > moment, > > and I think he really got there could be hundreds of reasons why someone > > might move slowly through a machine. > > > > But for those that have had really bad experiences at TSA or CBP > > checkpoints, there are a couple of different avenues you can take. If > > you > > believe > > you have been the subject of discrimination, you may file a CRCL (DHS > > Office > > for Civil Rights and Civil Liberties - and where I work) complaint. Go > > to > > _www.dhs.gov/civilliberties_ (http://www.dhs.gov/civilliberties) to > > download the form or send an email to _civil.liberties at dhs.gov_ > > (mailto:civil.liberties at dhs.gov) explaining what happened. Please be > > sure to give as much > > detail as possible, including the date, airport name, terminal number, > > time > > of day, the name of anyone you obtain, and a narrative explaining what > > happened. If you have a customer service issue - for example a TSO was > > rude > > or dismissive, you may ask for a supervisor, a comment card, or both. > > You > > can also contact your local field office after the fact to convey what > > happened. > > > > My message is substantially longer than I intended, and I apologize for > > the > > length. > > > > Regards, > > Ronza > > > > > > > > > > In a message dated 12/2/2009 4:25:21 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, > > ckrugman at sbcglobal.net writes: > > > > I travel frequently alone and the air lines and/or HSA provide needed > > assistence upon my request. including through security check points and > > picking up baggage and assistence with procuring ground transportation > > or > > to > > a waiting party. I have found HSA and airport staff to be very > > cooperative. > > Chuck > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "stiehm.law" > > To: > > Cc: > > Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 12:57 PM > > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > > > > > >> In addition to the airlines, I have recently become curious as to what > > if > >> any, accommodations for the TSA makes with respect to disabled people > >> going through security and being picked up by somebody at the gate at > > the > >> terminal at the other end of the flight. For example, do they permit a > >> blind person who is traveling alone to be accompanied through > > security, > >> down to the airline check-in counter at the gate by a non-ticketed > >> person. > >> > >> At the other end, is a non-ticketed person permitted through security > >> to > >> go to the gate to meet a blind person flying alone? > >> > >> If TSA does not provide for such accommodations do the airlines take it > >> on themselves to provide this service? > >> > >> Has anybody had any experience in this regard? Is the accommodation, if > >> any, voluntary on the part of the TSA and/or the airlines or is it > >> governed by regulation? > >> > >> Patrick H. Stiehm > >> Stiehm Law Office > >> Alexandria, VA 22309 > >> 703-360-1089 (Voice) > >> 703-935-8266 (Fax) > >> > >> > >> > >> Tue, 1 Dec 2009 11:30:37 -0800 "Russell J. Thomas, Jr." > >> writes: > >>> Off the top of my head, and without any new research, the only case > >>> I > >>> remember is a case challenging the accessibility of airline websites > >>> with > >>> respect to attempting to make reservations and ordering tickets on > >>> line. > >>> > >>> I also think that there are regulations on the subject, especially > >>> dealing > >>> with how disabled passengers are to be treated (or perhaps on some > >>> occasions > >>> mistreated). > >>> > >>> I often thought it would be a good idea for the NFB to put together > >>> a short > >>> guide book concerning travel, including air travel, based upon > >>> experiences > >>> of NFB members, to be used as a reference guide for blind people who > >>> use air > >>> travel. Certainly things have changed since 911--some changes for > >>> the good, > >>> and others not so good. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Respectfully, > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Russell J. Thomas, Jr. > >>> > >>> THOMAS & ASSOCIATES > >>> > >>> www.californiaemployersattorneys.com > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Orange County Office > >>> > >>> 4121 Westerly Place, Suite 101 > >>> > >>> Newport Beach, California 92660 > >>> > >>> T: (949) 752-0101 > >>> > >>> F: (949) 257-4756 > >>> > >>> M: (949) 466-7238 > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Beverly Hills Office > >>> > >>> 9107 Wilshire Boulevard, Suite 450 > >>> > >>> Beverly Hills, California 90210 > >>> > >>> T: (310) 461-3561 > >>> > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org > >>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > >>> Behalf Of James Weisberg > >>> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 10:01 AM > >>> To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' > >>> Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > >>> > >>> Hi Folks: > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Anyone on the lists have experience or knowledge regarding the ADA > >>> and suits > >>> against air carriers for violations available for quick consult? > >>> Thanks. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> James W. Weisberg, Esq. > >>> > >>> Law Office of J. William Weisberg > >>> > >>> 299 South Patencio Road #3 > >>> > >>> Palm Springs, California 92262 > >>> > >>> V: 916.425.1010 > >>> > >>> F: 916.374.7667 > >>> > >>> E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com > >>> > >>> Admitted in Wisconsin > >>> > >>> Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil > >>> Rights > >>> Advocacy for Children with Diabetes > >>> > >>> This message contains information which may be confidential and > >>> privileged. > >>> Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the > >>> addressee), > >>> you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any > >>> information > >>> contained in this message. If you have received this message in > >>> error, > >>> please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from > >>> your > >>> system. > >>> > >>> This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client > >>> relationship > >>> nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William > >>> Weisberg > >>> expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information > >>> in > >>> accordance with this disclaimer. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> blindlaw mailing list > >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > >>> for > >>> blindlaw: > >>> > >> > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rthomas%40rjtla > >> wfi > >>> rm.com > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> blindlaw mailing list > >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > >>> for blindlaw: > >>> > >> > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stiehm.law%40ju > >> no.com > >>> > >> > >> ____________________________________________________________ > >> Hotel > >> Hotel pics, info and virtual tours. Click here to book a hotel online. > >> > > > http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/c?cp=ewJKbyZ61QloDsW_i_oQ_wAAJ1BdRO > > y9vkzpR6E_Fj7jZTbnAAYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAATRAAAAAA= > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> blindlaw mailing list > >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> blindlaw: > >> > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob > > al.net > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > blindlaw mailing list > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > blindlaw: > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/aznor99%40aol.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > blindlaw mailing list > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > blindlaw: > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mildredrivera%40ya > > hoo.com > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > blindlaw mailing list > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > blindlaw: > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/yasmin.reyazuddin% > > 40montgomerycountymd.gov > > > > _______________________________________________ > > blindlaw mailing list > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > blindlaw: > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mildredrivera%40ya > > hoo.com > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > blindlaw mailing list > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > blindlaw: > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/aznor99%40aol.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > > blindlaw mailing list > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > blindlaw: > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pattichang%40att.n > et > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jimi-law%40dc.rr.c > om > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature > database 4661 (20091204) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature > database 4661 (20091204) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature > database 4662 (20091205) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature > database 4662 (20091205) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/timandvickie%40hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ Chat with Messenger straight from your Hotmail inbox. http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowslive/hotmail_bl1/hotmail_bl1.aspx?ocid=PID23879::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-ww:WM_IMHM_4:092009 From editor.nftb at gmail.com Sat Dec 5 20:29:07 2009 From: editor.nftb at gmail.com (Will May) Date: Sat, 5 Dec 2009 15:29:07 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel / Canes In-Reply-To: References: <27D47090A64E4986A8D5EFBF6EC655D0@D3J75Z91> Message-ID: Reservations at (800)433-7300 for Future Travel Disability Related Services -American Air On Sat, Dec 5, 2009 at 3:11 PM, Tim Shaw wrote: > > Anyone happen to have a contact number I can use for requesting assistance within the airport from American Airlines/American Eagle? I have been searchign and can not seem to finda  number. There sight says I can request assistance when checking in the day of trvel, but I would like to set it up in advance  if possible and I want to check in online so wouldnt have to wait in the long lines at the counter. > >> From: jimi-law at dc.rr.com >> To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> Date: Sat, 5 Dec 2009 09:31:23 -0800 >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel / Canes >> >> Can you provide me a citation so I can check it out? Thanks. >> >> James W. Weisberg, Esq. >> >> Law Office of J. William Weisberg >> >> 299 South Patencio Road #3 >> >> Palm Springs, California 92262 >> >> V: 916.425.1010 >> >> F: 916.374.7667 >> >> E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com >> >> Admitted in Wisconsin >> >> Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil Rights >> Advocacy for Children with Diabetes >> >> This message contains information which may be confidential and privileged. >> Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), >> you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information >> contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, >> please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from your >> system. >> >> This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client relationship >> nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William Weisberg >> expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in >> accordance with this disclaimer. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf Of Patti Gregory-Chang >> Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 5:46 AM >> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel / Canes >> >> There is a subsection e in the regs that allows us to keep our canes as long >> >> as they are by the window. >> >> P.S. National Federation of the Blind of Illinois is now on twitter at >> www.twitter.com/nfbi. >> We also have a facebook page. Just search for our full name. >> >> Patti Gregory-Chang >> President, National Federation of the Blind of Illinois >> pattichang at att.net >> www.nfbofillinois.org >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: >> To: >> Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 5:19 PM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel / Canes >> >> >> > I'm not sure. DHS doesn't have jurisdiction over what happens on the >> > planes themselves - that's Department of Transportation, so Craig might >> > know. >> > However, I know there are regs that prohibit loose items from being >> > permitted to remain loose during take-off and landing. That's usually how >> >> > the air >> > carriers get us to give up our canes. I lay my cane along the fusalage >> > as >> > well, Millie, and no one has ever said a word about that either. >> > >> > >> > >> > In a message dated 12/4/2009 9:34:40 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, >> > mildredrivera at yahoo.com writes: >> > >> > I prefer to use a long white cane. When I sit in the aisle, I just ask >> > the >> > person near the window if I can stow it there and no one has ever turned >> > me down. I was wondering if anyone knows, maybe Ronza, if I have a right >> > to >> > have the cane at my reach? I maintain that I do, but don't know any reg >> > or >> > airline policy that actually says that I do. >> > >> > Have a blessed day !!! :), Millie >> > >> > --- On Fri, 12/4/09, Reyazuddin, Yasmin >> > wrote: >> > >> > >> > From: Reyazuddin, Yasmin >> > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel / Canes >> > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> > Date: Friday, December 4, 2009, 8:06 AM >> > >> > >> > Hi Millie, >> > It has happened to me too. I have given them the cane and they have >> > placed >> > in a secure place. I was in the ile seat and had no wall near me. They >> > also put the cane in the overhead bin but are careful that it does not >> > fall >> > out. The airline staff are willing to help me get to the bathroom or >> > bring me >> > soft drinks. I am talking about long flights lasting 7 to 9 hours. >> > >> > Yasmin Reyazuddin >> > Information & Referral unit >> > Department of Health & human services >> > 401 Hungerford Drive (1st floor) >> > Rockville MD 20850 >> > Phone 240-777-1245 (info line) >> > 240-777-1556 (personal line) >> > Fax: 240-777-4636 >> > TTY: 240-777-1295 >> > >> > Office hours 8:30 am to 5:00 pm >> > >> > Languages English, Hindi, Urdu >> > >> > This message may contain protected health information or other >> > information >> > that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended >> > recipient, >> > please contact the sender by return mail and destroy any copies of this >> > material. >> > >> > Thank you. >> > >> > >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> > Behalf Of Millie Rivera-Rau >> > Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 10:19 PM >> > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >> > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel / Canes >> > >> > I have a question. Lately my long white cane has been taken from me after >> > I get on the plane. Sometimes I can convince the personnel that I should >> > be >> > permitted to keep it but other times I am not successful. Is there >> > something that I can site that would get through to them? Or, am I >> > required to >> > relinquish it? For some reason it has been a problem more in the last two >> > years then ever before. I push it to a point just after making a scene. >> > smile. >> > The thing that really gets me is that they want to put it in an overhead >> > bin and usually it falls out as soon as the bin is opened and hits >> > someone on >> > the head! Then the other passengers realize I was right. Any thoughts. >> > >> > Millie >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > --- On Wed, 12/2/09, AZNOR99 at aol.com wrote: >> > >> > >> > From: AZNOR99 at aol.com >> > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel >> > To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> > Date: Wednesday, December 2, 2009, 12:24 PM >> > >> > >> > Hello, >> > >> > This is an interesting subject. TSA is generally not responsible for >> > providing a traveler with a guide as a passenger goes through screening. >> > You >> > can always request a Companion Pass from the airline for someone to >> > accompany you; however, it is at the discretion of the airline as to >> > whether or not >> > they grant this request. Most do grant the Pass as long as you give >> > them >> > a valid reason, and most accept accompanying a minor or passenger with a >> > disability or elderly individual as a valid reason. You can request a >> > Companion Pass from the airline at the time of check-in if you bring >> > someone with >> > you to drop you off - you don't necessarily have to let the airline know >> > in advance that you plan to do this. If you want someone to meet you at >> > the >> > gate when you arrive though, you'll need to let the airline know in >> > advance. This is because you won't actually be with the person when >> > they >> > obtain >> > the Companion Pass, so the airline can't verify that they know you or >> > that >> > you'd want them to pick you up. Companions are subject to the same >> > screening and security measures as passengers - valid State or Federal >> > ID, human >> > and belonging scans, etc. TSA does not have jurisdiction over Companion >> > Pass issuance - that is at the discretion of the airlines - they are >> > subject >> > to the regs of the FAA. >> > >> > You can ask for a Guide at the airport as well. Generally airlines >> > prefer >> > you do this in advance, but you can certainly choose to make such a >> > request when you arrive at the airport or land at your destination. If >> > you don't >> > let them know you need someone in advance though, you might have to wait >> > longer for someone to arrive, as airlines try to have staff waiting for >> > passengers about whom they know. We've all seen the line of wheel chairs >> > and >> > uniformed staff waiting when we deplane? Well, they're each usually >> > assigned to a particular person, and they usually know who that person is >> > ahead of >> > time. Airlines, and sometimes airports, are increasingly creating >> > "Passenger Assistance Departments," and escorting passengers is one of >> > their >> > primary functions. >> > >> > There are some airports that utilize the airport police or other airport >> > staff as escorts rather than airline personnel. Sometimes this is >> > because >> > >> > it is incredibly difficult to credential staff for all areas of an >> > airport, >> > which such staff need to possess. Sometimes it may be a small airport, >> > and >> > it would be more efficient to assign escort responsibilities to one >> > person >> > for all the airlines. Or there might be other reasons. >> > >> > However, TSOs - Transportation Security Officers) are trained in how to >> > interact with disabled passengers. For example, if you place your cane >> > on >> > >> > the conveyer belt, a TSO may offer to position you prior to entering the >> > human >> > scanner and reach out to hold your hands to guide you forward. Due to >> > the >> > nature of the scanning equipment, a passenger must not touch the scanning >> > machine - it will not function properly if anything comes into contact >> > with >> > it. Some of us have had the experience of bumping the machine and >> > setting >> > it off in the past. >> > >> > If you run your cane through the baggage scanner and ask for it back to >> > take through the human scanner, you have to be very careful, once again, >> > not >> > to tap the scanner walls with the cane - it will likely set the machine >> > off. >> > Also, if your cane has metal - many of us use metal tips - then it may >> > cause the scanner to go off, necessitating the individual be referred to >> > secondary screening or wanding. >> > >> > I've personally had the experience of placing my cane on the baggage >> > scanning belt and walking toward the human scanner. I walked through the >> > scanner very slowly and did not set it off. However, I was referred to >> > secondary. I always ask why I'm being referred to Secondary (I'm in the >> > business of >> > wanting to know if I'm being discriminated against because of my >> > religion, >> > national origin, or disability). The answer I usually get (not always >> > though, and I've got some funny stories about other times) is "it's >> > random." >> > I conveyed to the TSO that I could not move to the secondary screening >> > area >> > until someone retrieved my cane from the conveyer belt. He got it for >> > me >> > and asked, "Oh, is the reason you moved so slowly through the scanner >> > because you are blind?" I answered that it was, and he told me I was >> > free >> > to go. >> > I insisted on going to Secondary, and he said, "Well you don't need to. >> > Your behavior isn't suspicious. I just thought it was because I didn't >> > know >> > you were being careful not to bump the machine since you couldn't see >> > well." Part of their jobs as TSOs is to monitor suspicious behavior; >> > part >> > of my >> > job is to convey the difference between suspicious behavior and cultural >> > >> > norms. Needless to say I insisted on going to Secondary because I wanted >> > the chance to talk the issue through with the TSO. It was a teachable >> > moment, >> > and I think he really got there could be hundreds of reasons why someone >> > might move slowly through a machine. >> > >> > But for those that have had really bad experiences at TSA or CBP >> > checkpoints, there are a couple of different avenues you can take. If >> > you >> > believe >> > you have been the subject of discrimination, you may file a CRCL (DHS >> > Office >> > for Civil Rights and Civil Liberties - and where I work) complaint. Go >> > to >> > _www.dhs.gov/civilliberties_ (http://www.dhs.gov/civilliberties) to >> > download the form or send an email to _civil.liberties at dhs.gov_ >> > (mailto:civil.liberties at dhs.gov) explaining what happened. Please be >> > sure to give as much >> > detail as possible, including the date, airport name, terminal number, >> > time >> > of day, the name of anyone you obtain, and a narrative explaining what >> > happened. If you have a customer service issue - for example a TSO was >> > rude >> > or dismissive, you may ask for a supervisor, a comment card, or both. >> > You >> > can also contact your local field office after the fact to convey what >> > happened. >> > >> > My message is substantially longer than I intended, and I apologize for >> > the >> > length. >> > >> > Regards, >> > Ronza >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > In a message dated 12/2/2009 4:25:21 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, >> > ckrugman at sbcglobal.net writes: >> > >> > I travel frequently alone and the air lines and/or HSA provide needed >> > assistence upon my request. including through security check points and >> > picking up baggage and assistence with procuring ground transportation >> > or >> > to >> > a waiting party. I have found HSA and airport staff to be very >> > cooperative. >> > Chuck >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> > From: "stiehm.law" >> > To: >> > Cc: >> > Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 12:57 PM >> > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel >> > >> > >> >> In addition to the airlines, I have recently become curious as to what >> > if >> >> any, accommodations for the TSA makes with respect to disabled people >> >> going through security and being picked up by somebody at the gate at >> > the >> >> terminal at the other end of the flight. For example, do they permit a >> >> blind person who is traveling alone to be accompanied through >> > security, >> >> down to the airline check-in counter at the gate by a non-ticketed >> >> person. >> >> >> >> At the other end, is a non-ticketed person permitted through security >> >> to >> >> go to the gate to meet a blind person flying alone? >> >> >> >> If TSA does not provide for such accommodations do the airlines take it >> >> on themselves to provide this service? >> >> >> >> Has anybody had any experience in this regard? Is the accommodation, if >> >> any, voluntary on the part of the TSA and/or the airlines or is it >> >> governed by regulation? >> >> >> >> Patrick H. Stiehm >> >> Stiehm Law Office >> >> Alexandria, VA 22309 >> >> 703-360-1089 (Voice) >> >> 703-935-8266 (Fax) >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Tue, 1 Dec 2009 11:30:37 -0800 "Russell J. Thomas, Jr." >> >> writes: >> >>> Off the top of my head, and without any new research, the only case >> >>> I >> >>> remember is a case challenging the accessibility of airline websites >> >>> with >> >>> respect to attempting to make reservations and ordering tickets on >> >>> line. >> >>> >> >>> I also think that there are regulations on the subject, especially >> >>> dealing >> >>> with how disabled passengers are to be treated (or perhaps on some >> >>> occasions >> >>> mistreated). >> >>> >> >>> I often thought it would be a good idea for the NFB to put together >> >>> a short >> >>> guide book concerning travel, including air travel, based upon >> >>> experiences >> >>> of NFB members, to be used as a reference guide for blind people who >> >>> use air >> >>> travel. Certainly things have changed since 911--some changes for >> >>> the good, >> >>> and others not so good. >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> Respectfully, >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> Russell J. Thomas, Jr. >> >>> >> >>> THOMAS & ASSOCIATES >> >>> >> >>> www.californiaemployersattorneys.com >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> Orange County Office >> >>> >> >>> 4121 Westerly Place, Suite 101 >> >>> >> >>> Newport Beach, California 92660 >> >>> >> >>> T: (949) 752-0101 >> >>> >> >>> F: (949) 257-4756 >> >>> >> >>> M: (949) 466-7238 >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> Beverly Hills Office >> >>> >> >>> 9107 Wilshire Boulevard, Suite 450 >> >>> >> >>> Beverly Hills, California 90210 >> >>> >> >>> T: (310) 461-3561 >> >>> >> >>> -----Original Message----- >> >>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >> >>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> >>> Behalf Of James Weisberg >> >>> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 10:01 AM >> >>> To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' >> >>> Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel >> >>> >> >>> Hi Folks: >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> Anyone on the lists have experience or knowledge regarding the ADA >> >>> and suits >> >>> against air carriers for violations available for quick consult? >> >>> Thanks. >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> James W. Weisberg, Esq. >> >>> >> >>> Law Office of J. William Weisberg >> >>> >> >>> 299 South Patencio Road #3 >> >>> >> >>> Palm Springs, California 92262 >> >>> >> >>> V: 916.425.1010 >> >>> >> >>> F: 916.374.7667 >> >>> >> >>> E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com >> >>> >> >>> Admitted in Wisconsin >> >>> >> >>> Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil >> >>> Rights >> >>> Advocacy for Children with Diabetes >> >>> >> >>> This message contains information which may be confidential and >> >>> privileged. >> >>> Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the >> >>> addressee), >> >>> you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any >> >>> information >> >>> contained in this message. If you have received this message in >> >>> error, >> >>> please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from >> >>> your >> >>> system. >> >>> >> >>> This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client >> >>> relationship >> >>> nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William >> >>> Weisberg >> >>> expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information >> >>> in >> >>> accordance with this disclaimer. >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >> >>> blindlaw mailing list >> >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> >>> for >> >>> blindlaw: >> >>> >> >> >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rthomas%40rjtla >> >> wfi >> >>> rm.com >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >> >>> blindlaw mailing list >> >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> >>> for blindlaw: >> >>> >> >> >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stiehm.law%40ju >> >> no.com >> >>> >> >> >> >> ____________________________________________________________ >> >> Hotel >> >> Hotel pics, info and virtual tours. Click here to book a hotel online. >> >> >> > >> http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/c?cp=ewJKbyZ61QloDsW_i_oQ_wAAJ1BdRO >> > y9vkzpR6E_Fj7jZTbnAAYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAATRAAAAAA= >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> blindlaw mailing list >> >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> >> blindlaw: >> >> >> > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob >> > al.net >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > blindlaw mailing list >> > blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> > blindlaw: >> > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/aznor99%40aol.com >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > blindlaw mailing list >> > blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> > blindlaw: >> > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mildredrivera%40ya >> > hoo.com >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > blindlaw mailing list >> > blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> > blindlaw: >> > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/yasmin.reyazuddin% >> > 40montgomerycountymd.gov >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > blindlaw mailing list >> > blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> > blindlaw: >> > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mildredrivera%40ya >> > hoo.com >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > blindlaw mailing list >> > blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> > blindlaw: >> > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/aznor99%40aol.com >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > blindlaw mailing list >> > blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> > blindlaw: >> > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pattichang%40att.n >> et >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jimi-law%40dc.rr.c >> om >> >> __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature >> database 4661 (20091204) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature >> database 4661 (20091204) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature >> database 4662 (20091205) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature >> database 4662 (20091205) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/timandvickie%40hotmail.com > > _________________________________________________________________ > Chat with Messenger straight from your Hotmail inbox. > http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowslive/hotmail_bl1/hotmail_bl1.aspx?ocid=PID23879::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-ww:WM_IMHM_4:092009 > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/editor.nftb%40gmail.com > From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Sun Dec 6 07:44:04 2009 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Sat, 5 Dec 2009 23:44:04 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel / Canes In-Reply-To: References: , <27D47090A64E4986A8D5EFBF6EC655D0@D3J75Z91>, Message-ID: Try 1-800-433-7300. This came from the Expedia web site where they have a downloadable file that lists toll-free and other numbers for air lines and other types of transportation. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Shaw" To: Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 12:11 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel / Canes > > Anyone happen to have a contact number I can use for requesting assistance > within the airport from American Airlines/American Eagle? I have been > searchign and can not seem to finda number. There sight says I can > request assistance when checking in the day of trvel, but I would like to > set it up in advance if possible and I want to check in online so wouldnt > have to wait in the long lines at the counter. > >> From: jimi-law at dc.rr.com >> To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> Date: Sat, 5 Dec 2009 09:31:23 -0800 >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel / Canes >> >> Can you provide me a citation so I can check it out? Thanks. >> >> James W. Weisberg, Esq. >> >> Law Office of J. William Weisberg >> >> 299 South Patencio Road #3 >> >> Palm Springs, California 92262 >> >> V: 916.425.1010 >> >> F: 916.374.7667 >> >> E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com >> >> Admitted in Wisconsin >> >> Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil Rights >> Advocacy for Children with Diabetes >> >> This message contains information which may be confidential and >> privileged. >> Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the >> addressee), >> you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any >> information >> contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, >> please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from your >> system. >> >> This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client >> relationship >> nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William >> Weisberg >> expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in >> accordance with this disclaimer. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf Of Patti Gregory-Chang >> Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 5:46 AM >> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel / Canes >> >> There is a subsection e in the regs that allows us to keep our canes as >> long >> >> as they are by the window. >> >> P.S. National Federation of the Blind of Illinois is now on twitter at >> www.twitter.com/nfbi. >> We also have a facebook page. Just search for our full name. >> >> Patti Gregory-Chang >> President, National Federation of the Blind of Illinois >> pattichang at att.net >> www.nfbofillinois.org >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: >> To: >> Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 5:19 PM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel / Canes >> >> >> > I'm not sure. DHS doesn't have jurisdiction over what happens on the >> > planes themselves - that's Department of Transportation, so Craig might >> > know. >> > However, I know there are regs that prohibit loose items from being >> > permitted to remain loose during take-off and landing. That's usually >> > how >> >> > the air >> > carriers get us to give up our canes. I lay my cane along the fusalage >> > as >> > well, Millie, and no one has ever said a word about that either. >> > >> > >> > >> > In a message dated 12/4/2009 9:34:40 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, >> > mildredrivera at yahoo.com writes: >> > >> > I prefer to use a long white cane. When I sit in the aisle, I just ask >> > the >> > person near the window if I can stow it there and no one has ever >> > turned >> > me down. I was wondering if anyone knows, maybe Ronza, if I have a >> > right >> > to >> > have the cane at my reach? I maintain that I do, but don't know any reg >> > or >> > airline policy that actually says that I do. >> > >> > Have a blessed day !!! :), Millie >> > >> > --- On Fri, 12/4/09, Reyazuddin, Yasmin >> > wrote: >> > >> > >> > From: Reyazuddin, Yasmin >> > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel / Canes >> > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> > Date: Friday, December 4, 2009, 8:06 AM >> > >> > >> > Hi Millie, >> > It has happened to me too. I have given them the cane and they have >> > placed >> > in a secure place. I was in the ile seat and had no wall near me. They >> > also put the cane in the overhead bin but are careful that it does not >> > fall >> > out. The airline staff are willing to help me get to the bathroom or >> > bring me >> > soft drinks. I am talking about long flights lasting 7 to 9 hours. >> > >> > Yasmin Reyazuddin >> > Information & Referral unit >> > Department of Health & human services >> > 401 Hungerford Drive (1st floor) >> > Rockville MD 20850 >> > Phone 240-777-1245 (info line) >> > 240-777-1556 (personal line) >> > Fax: 240-777-4636 >> > TTY: 240-777-1295 >> > >> > Office hours 8:30 am to 5:00 pm >> > >> > Languages English, Hindi, Urdu >> > >> > This message may contain protected health information or other >> > information >> > that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended >> > recipient, >> > please contact the sender by return mail and destroy any copies of this >> > material. >> > >> > Thank you. >> > >> > >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >> > On >> > Behalf Of Millie Rivera-Rau >> > Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 10:19 PM >> > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >> > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel / Canes >> > >> > I have a question. Lately my long white cane has been taken from me >> > after >> > I get on the plane. Sometimes I can convince the personnel that I >> > should >> > be >> > permitted to keep it but other times I am not successful. Is there >> > something that I can site that would get through to them? Or, am I >> > required to >> > relinquish it? For some reason it has been a problem more in the last >> > two >> > years then ever before. I push it to a point just after making a scene. >> > smile. >> > The thing that really gets me is that they want to put it in an >> > overhead >> > bin and usually it falls out as soon as the bin is opened and hits >> > someone on >> > the head! Then the other passengers realize I was right. Any thoughts. >> > >> > Millie >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > --- On Wed, 12/2/09, AZNOR99 at aol.com wrote: >> > >> > >> > From: AZNOR99 at aol.com >> > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel >> > To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> > Date: Wednesday, December 2, 2009, 12:24 PM >> > >> > >> > Hello, >> > >> > This is an interesting subject. TSA is generally not responsible for >> > providing a traveler with a guide as a passenger goes through >> > screening. >> > You >> > can always request a Companion Pass from the airline for someone to >> > accompany you; however, it is at the discretion of the airline as to >> > whether or not >> > they grant this request. Most do grant the Pass as long as you give >> > them >> > a valid reason, and most accept accompanying a minor or passenger with >> > a >> > disability or elderly individual as a valid reason. You can request a >> > Companion Pass from the airline at the time of check-in if you bring >> > someone with >> > you to drop you off - you don't necessarily have to let the airline >> > know >> > in advance that you plan to do this. If you want someone to meet you at >> > the >> > gate when you arrive though, you'll need to let the airline know in >> > advance. This is because you won't actually be with the person when >> > they >> > obtain >> > the Companion Pass, so the airline can't verify that they know you or >> > that >> > you'd want them to pick you up. Companions are subject to the same >> > screening and security measures as passengers - valid State or Federal >> > ID, human >> > and belonging scans, etc. TSA does not have jurisdiction over Companion >> > Pass issuance - that is at the discretion of the airlines - they are >> > subject >> > to the regs of the FAA. >> > >> > You can ask for a Guide at the airport as well. Generally airlines >> > prefer >> > you do this in advance, but you can certainly choose to make such a >> > request when you arrive at the airport or land at your destination. If >> > you don't >> > let them know you need someone in advance though, you might have to >> > wait >> > longer for someone to arrive, as airlines try to have staff waiting for >> > passengers about whom they know. We've all seen the line of wheel >> > chairs >> > and >> > uniformed staff waiting when we deplane? Well, they're each usually >> > assigned to a particular person, and they usually know who that person >> > is >> > ahead of >> > time. Airlines, and sometimes airports, are increasingly creating >> > "Passenger Assistance Departments," and escorting passengers is one of >> > their >> > primary functions. >> > >> > There are some airports that utilize the airport police or other >> > airport >> > staff as escorts rather than airline personnel. Sometimes this is >> > because >> > >> > it is incredibly difficult to credential staff for all areas of an >> > airport, >> > which such staff need to possess. Sometimes it may be a small airport, >> > and >> > it would be more efficient to assign escort responsibilities to one >> > person >> > for all the airlines. Or there might be other reasons. >> > >> > However, TSOs - Transportation Security Officers) are trained in how to >> > interact with disabled passengers. For example, if you place your cane >> > on >> > >> > the conveyer belt, a TSO may offer to position you prior to entering >> > the >> > human >> > scanner and reach out to hold your hands to guide you forward. Due to >> > the >> > nature of the scanning equipment, a passenger must not touch the >> > scanning >> > machine - it will not function properly if anything comes into contact >> > with >> > it. Some of us have had the experience of bumping the machine and >> > setting >> > it off in the past. >> > >> > If you run your cane through the baggage scanner and ask for it back to >> > take through the human scanner, you have to be very careful, once >> > again, >> > not >> > to tap the scanner walls with the cane - it will likely set the machine >> > off. >> > Also, if your cane has metal - many of us use metal tips - then it may >> > cause the scanner to go off, necessitating the individual be referred >> > to >> > secondary screening or wanding. >> > >> > I've personally had the experience of placing my cane on the baggage >> > scanning belt and walking toward the human scanner. I walked through >> > the >> > scanner very slowly and did not set it off. However, I was referred to >> > secondary. I always ask why I'm being referred to Secondary (I'm in the >> > business of >> > wanting to know if I'm being discriminated against because of my >> > religion, >> > national origin, or disability). The answer I usually get (not always >> > though, and I've got some funny stories about other times) is "it's >> > random." >> > I conveyed to the TSO that I could not move to the secondary screening >> > area >> > until someone retrieved my cane from the conveyer belt. He got it for >> > me >> > and asked, "Oh, is the reason you moved so slowly through the scanner >> > because you are blind?" I answered that it was, and he told me I was >> > free >> > to go. >> > I insisted on going to Secondary, and he said, "Well you don't need to. >> > Your behavior isn't suspicious. I just thought it was because I didn't >> > know >> > you were being careful not to bump the machine since you couldn't see >> > well." Part of their jobs as TSOs is to monitor suspicious behavior; >> > part >> > of my >> > job is to convey the difference between suspicious behavior and >> > cultural >> > >> > norms. Needless to say I insisted on going to Secondary because I >> > wanted >> > the chance to talk the issue through with the TSO. It was a teachable >> > moment, >> > and I think he really got there could be hundreds of reasons why >> > someone >> > might move slowly through a machine. >> > >> > But for those that have had really bad experiences at TSA or CBP >> > checkpoints, there are a couple of different avenues you can take. If >> > you >> > believe >> > you have been the subject of discrimination, you may file a CRCL (DHS >> > Office >> > for Civil Rights and Civil Liberties - and where I work) complaint. Go >> > to >> > _www.dhs.gov/civilliberties_ (http://www.dhs.gov/civilliberties) to >> > download the form or send an email to _civil.liberties at dhs.gov_ >> > (mailto:civil.liberties at dhs.gov) explaining what happened. Please be >> > sure to give as much >> > detail as possible, including the date, airport name, terminal number, >> > time >> > of day, the name of anyone you obtain, and a narrative explaining what >> > happened. If you have a customer service issue - for example a TSO was >> > rude >> > or dismissive, you may ask for a supervisor, a comment card, or both. >> > You >> > can also contact your local field office after the fact to convey what >> > happened. >> > >> > My message is substantially longer than I intended, and I apologize for >> > the >> > length. >> > >> > Regards, >> > Ronza >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > In a message dated 12/2/2009 4:25:21 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, >> > ckrugman at sbcglobal.net writes: >> > >> > I travel frequently alone and the air lines and/or HSA provide needed >> > assistence upon my request. including through security check points and >> > picking up baggage and assistence with procuring ground transportation >> > or >> > to >> > a waiting party. I have found HSA and airport staff to be very >> > cooperative. >> > Chuck >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> > From: "stiehm.law" >> > To: >> > Cc: >> > Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 12:57 PM >> > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel >> > >> > >> >> In addition to the airlines, I have recently become curious as to what >> > if >> >> any, accommodations for the TSA makes with respect to disabled people >> >> going through security and being picked up by somebody at the gate at >> > the >> >> terminal at the other end of the flight. For example, do they permit a >> >> blind person who is traveling alone to be accompanied through >> > security, >> >> down to the airline check-in counter at the gate by a non-ticketed >> >> person. >> >> >> >> At the other end, is a non-ticketed person permitted through security >> >> to >> >> go to the gate to meet a blind person flying alone? >> >> >> >> If TSA does not provide for such accommodations do the airlines take >> >> it >> >> on themselves to provide this service? >> >> >> >> Has anybody had any experience in this regard? Is the accommodation, >> >> if >> >> any, voluntary on the part of the TSA and/or the airlines or is it >> >> governed by regulation? >> >> >> >> Patrick H. Stiehm >> >> Stiehm Law Office >> >> Alexandria, VA 22309 >> >> 703-360-1089 (Voice) >> >> 703-935-8266 (Fax) >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Tue, 1 Dec 2009 11:30:37 -0800 "Russell J. Thomas, Jr." >> >> writes: >> >>> Off the top of my head, and without any new research, the only case >> >>> I >> >>> remember is a case challenging the accessibility of airline websites >> >>> with >> >>> respect to attempting to make reservations and ordering tickets on >> >>> line. >> >>> >> >>> I also think that there are regulations on the subject, especially >> >>> dealing >> >>> with how disabled passengers are to be treated (or perhaps on some >> >>> occasions >> >>> mistreated). >> >>> >> >>> I often thought it would be a good idea for the NFB to put together >> >>> a short >> >>> guide book concerning travel, including air travel, based upon >> >>> experiences >> >>> of NFB members, to be used as a reference guide for blind people who >> >>> use air >> >>> travel. Certainly things have changed since 911--some changes for >> >>> the good, >> >>> and others not so good. >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> Respectfully, >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> Russell J. Thomas, Jr. >> >>> >> >>> THOMAS & ASSOCIATES >> >>> >> >>> www.californiaemployersattorneys.com >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> Orange County Office >> >>> >> >>> 4121 Westerly Place, Suite 101 >> >>> >> >>> Newport Beach, California 92660 >> >>> >> >>> T: (949) 752-0101 >> >>> >> >>> F: (949) 257-4756 >> >>> >> >>> M: (949) 466-7238 >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> Beverly Hills Office >> >>> >> >>> 9107 Wilshire Boulevard, Suite 450 >> >>> >> >>> Beverly Hills, California 90210 >> >>> >> >>> T: (310) 461-3561 >> >>> >> >>> -----Original Message----- >> >>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >> >>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> >>> Behalf Of James Weisberg >> >>> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 10:01 AM >> >>> To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' >> >>> Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel >> >>> >> >>> Hi Folks: >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> Anyone on the lists have experience or knowledge regarding the ADA >> >>> and suits >> >>> against air carriers for violations available for quick consult? >> >>> Thanks. >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> James W. Weisberg, Esq. >> >>> >> >>> Law Office of J. William Weisberg >> >>> >> >>> 299 South Patencio Road #3 >> >>> >> >>> Palm Springs, California 92262 >> >>> >> >>> V: 916.425.1010 >> >>> >> >>> F: 916.374.7667 >> >>> >> >>> E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com >> >>> >> >>> Admitted in Wisconsin >> >>> >> >>> Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil >> >>> Rights >> >>> Advocacy for Children with Diabetes >> >>> >> >>> This message contains information which may be confidential and >> >>> privileged. >> >>> Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the >> >>> addressee), >> >>> you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any >> >>> information >> >>> contained in this message. If you have received this message in >> >>> error, >> >>> please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from >> >>> your >> >>> system. >> >>> >> >>> This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client >> >>> relationship >> >>> nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William >> >>> Weisberg >> >>> expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information >> >>> in >> >>> accordance with this disclaimer. >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >> >>> blindlaw mailing list >> >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> >>> for >> >>> blindlaw: >> >>> >> >> >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rthomas%40rjtla >> >> wfi >> >>> rm.com >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >> >>> blindlaw mailing list >> >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> >>> for blindlaw: >> >>> >> >> >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stiehm.law%40ju >> >> no.com >> >>> >> >> >> >> ____________________________________________________________ >> >> Hotel >> >> Hotel pics, info and virtual tours. Click here to book a hotel online. >> >> >> > >> http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/c?cp=ewJKbyZ61QloDsW_i_oQ_wAAJ1BdRO >> > y9vkzpR6E_Fj7jZTbnAAYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAATRAAAAAA= >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> blindlaw mailing list >> >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> >> blindlaw: >> >> >> > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob >> > al.net >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > blindlaw mailing list >> > blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> > blindlaw: >> > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/aznor99%40aol.com >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > blindlaw mailing list >> > blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> > blindlaw: >> > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mildredrivera%40ya >> > hoo.com >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > blindlaw mailing list >> > blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> > blindlaw: >> > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/yasmin.reyazuddin% >> > 40montgomerycountymd.gov >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > blindlaw mailing list >> > blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> > blindlaw: >> > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mildredrivera%40ya >> > hoo.com >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > blindlaw mailing list >> > blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> > blindlaw: >> > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/aznor99%40aol.com >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > blindlaw mailing list >> > blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> > blindlaw: >> > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/pattichang%40att.n >> et >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jimi-law%40dc.rr.c >> om >> >> __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus >> signature >> database 4661 (20091204) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus >> signature >> database 4661 (20091204) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus >> signature >> database 4662 (20091205) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus >> signature >> database 4662 (20091205) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/timandvickie%40hotmail.com > > _________________________________________________________________ > Chat with Messenger straight from your Hotmail inbox. > http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowslive/hotmail_bl1/hotmail_bl1.aspx?ocid=PID23879::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-ww:WM_IMHM_4:092009 > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net From benkarpilow at gmail.com Mon Dec 7 15:50:03 2009 From: benkarpilow at gmail.com (Ben Karpilow) Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2009 07:50:03 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] Westlaw or Lexis Message-ID: Fellow Listers, do you preferWestlaw or Lexis, and why? (I'm on the verge of beginning my legal career and would like your collective insight). Thanks, Ben From jimi-law at dc.rr.com Mon Dec 7 16:15:23 2009 From: jimi-law at dc.rr.com (James Weisberg) Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2009 08:15:23 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] Westlaw or Lexis In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8F2F30B555C345D1A4AD5AD2438CB2C7@screnci.local> My preference is Westlaw as they have some pretty good support for JAWS. I have a contact name and number but have never used it for JAWS training on Westlaw (which is provided by West). James W. Weisberg, Esq. Law Office of J. William Weisberg 299 South Patencio Road #3 Palm Springs, California 92262 V: 916.425.1010 F: 916.374.7667 E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com Admitted in Wisconsin Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil Rights Advocacy for Children with Diabetes This message contains information which may be confidential and privileged. Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from your system. This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client relationship nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William Weisberg expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in accordance with this disclaimer. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ben Karpilow Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 7:50 AM To: blind law mailing list Subject: [blindlaw] Westlaw or Lexis Fellow Listers, do you preferWestlaw or Lexis, and why? (I'm on the verge of beginning my legal career and would like your collective insight). Thanks, Ben _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jimi-law%40dc.rr.c om __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4667 (20091207) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4667 (20091207) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4667 (20091207) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com From agtolentino at gmail.com Mon Dec 7 16:42:58 2009 From: agtolentino at gmail.com (Aser Tolentino) Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2009 08:42:58 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] Westlaw or Lexis In-Reply-To: <8F2F30B555C345D1A4AD5AD2438CB2C7@screnci.local> References: <8F2F30B555C345D1A4AD5AD2438CB2C7@screnci.local> Message-ID: I like Westlaw because of the text only interface, which is good enough to accomplish most research tasks. On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 8:15 AM, James Weisberg wrote: > My preference is Westlaw as they have some pretty good support for JAWS. I > have a contact name and number but have never used it for JAWS training on > Westlaw (which is provided by West). > > James W. Weisberg, Esq. > > Law Office of J. William Weisberg > > 299 South Patencio Road #3 > > Palm Springs, California 92262 > > V: 916.425.1010 > > F: 916.374.7667 > > E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com > > Admitted in Wisconsin > > Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil Rights > Advocacy for Children with Diabetes > > This message contains information which may be confidential and privileged. > Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), > you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information > contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, > please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from your > system. > > This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client > relationship > nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William Weisberg > expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in > accordance with this disclaimer. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of Ben Karpilow > Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 7:50 AM > To: blind law mailing list > Subject: [blindlaw] Westlaw or Lexis > > Fellow Listers, do you preferWestlaw or Lexis, and why? (I'm on the verge > of > beginning my legal career and would like your collective insight). Thanks, > Ben > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jimi-law%40dc.rr.c > om > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature > database 4667 (20091207) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature > database 4667 (20091207) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature > database 4667 (20091207) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/agtolentino%40gmail.com > From Susan.Kelly at pima.gov Mon Dec 7 16:57:45 2009 From: Susan.Kelly at pima.gov (Susan Kelly) Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2009 09:57:45 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Westlaw or Lexis In-Reply-To: <8F2F30B555C345D1A4AD5AD2438CB2C7@screnci.local> References: <8F2F30B555C345D1A4AD5AD2438CB2C7@screnci.local> Message-ID: <1C09B58171332F49B237676A5158B1F7033D68D4@EVS02.central.pima.gov> Our office has a Westlaw contract, so we didn't get much choice, When I first started needing an adaptive tool for the computer, I was very annoyed with it, because it was not working well with my screen magnifier/reader (WinZoom) - then our rep told me about www.text.westlaw.com, the text-only version - and it is working quite well. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of James Weisberg Sent: Monday, 07 December, 2009 9:15 AM To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Westlaw or Lexis My preference is Westlaw as they have some pretty good support for JAWS. I have a contact name and number but have never used it for JAWS training on Westlaw (which is provided by West). James W. Weisberg, Esq. Law Office of J. William Weisberg 299 South Patencio Road #3 Palm Springs, California 92262 V: 916.425.1010 F: 916.374.7667 E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com Admitted in Wisconsin Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil Rights Advocacy for Children with Diabetes This message contains information which may be confidential and privileged. Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from your system. This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client relationship nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William Weisberg expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in accordance with this disclaimer. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ben Karpilow Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 7:50 AM To: blind law mailing list Subject: [blindlaw] Westlaw or Lexis Fellow Listers, do you preferWestlaw or Lexis, and why? (I'm on the verge of beginning my legal career and would like your collective insight). Thanks, Ben _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jimi-law%40dc. rr.c om __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4667 (20091207) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4667 (20091207) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4667 (20091207) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40 pima.gov From angie.matney at gmail.com Mon Dec 7 20:12:09 2009 From: angie.matney at gmail.com (Angie Matney) Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2009 15:12:09 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Westlaw or Lexis In-Reply-To: <1C09B58171332F49B237676A5158B1F7033D68D4@EVS02.central.pima.gov> References: <8F2F30B555C345D1A4AD5AD2438CB2C7@screnci.local> <1C09B58171332F49B237676A5158B1F7033D68D4@EVS02.central.pima.gov> Message-ID: <37377A4018494CDE8467A107DD5AA342@arm4rPC> I have had positive experiences with both. the Lexis customer service people were very helpful when I called with a JAWS-related issue two years back. I'd say I probably prefer Westlaw because of the optional text site, but I don't use that as my default. I find the main site quite navigable with JAWS. I will use the text site if I have a very good idea of what I want to find, or if I want to pull up specific sources. Angie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Susan Kelly" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 11:57 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Westlaw or Lexis > Our office has a Westlaw contract, so we didn't get much choice, When I > first started needing an adaptive tool for the computer, I was very > annoyed with it, because it was not working well with my screen > magnifier/reader (WinZoom) - then our rep told me about > www.text.westlaw.com, the text-only version - and it is working quite > well. > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] > On Behalf Of James Weisberg > Sent: Monday, 07 December, 2009 9:15 AM > To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Westlaw or Lexis > > My preference is Westlaw as they have some pretty good support for JAWS. > I > have a contact name and number but have never used it for JAWS training > on > Westlaw (which is provided by West). > > James W. Weisberg, Esq. > > Law Office of J. William Weisberg > > 299 South Patencio Road #3 > > Palm Springs, California 92262 > > V: 916.425.1010 > > F: 916.374.7667 > > E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com > > Admitted in Wisconsin > > Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil > Rights > Advocacy for Children with Diabetes > > This message contains information which may be confidential and > privileged. > Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the > addressee), > you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any > information > contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, > please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from > your > system. > > This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client > relationship > nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William > Weisberg > expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in > accordance with this disclaimer. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] > On > Behalf Of Ben Karpilow > Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 7:50 AM > To: blind law mailing list > Subject: [blindlaw] Westlaw or Lexis > > Fellow Listers, do you preferWestlaw or Lexis, and why? (I'm on the > verge of > beginning my legal career and would like your collective insight). > Thanks, > Ben > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jimi-law%40dc. > rr.c > om > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4667 (20091207) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4667 (20091207) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4667 (20091207) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40 > pima.gov > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie.matney%40gmail.com > From rumpole at roadrunner.com Mon Dec 7 22:33:09 2009 From: rumpole at roadrunner.com (Ross Doerr) Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2009 17:33:09 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Westlaw or Lexis References: <8F2F30B555C345D1A4AD5AD2438CB2C7@screnci.local> <1C09B58171332F49B237676A5158B1F7033D68D4@EVS02.central.pima.gov> Message-ID: <22FF7A097ABD489282DB77581BCA094D@none8a46117901> I would ekoe that -- our office has a contract with westlaw so there wasn't much choice for me. Having said that, I use the text only version exclusively simply because I got myself trained on it and am sufficiently busy that using only one research tool is all that I can handle. I find their tech support to be pretty good too. I suppose my remaining complaint would be that What I'd really like is to be able to get a Black's law dictionary installed on my hard drive. I like being able to look things up from a hard drive and not have to go online just because its accessible there. But thats just me - the computerized crowd view me, and justly so, as being a bit of a ludite. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Susan Kelly" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 11:57 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Westlaw or Lexis > Our office has a Westlaw contract, so we didn't get much choice, When I > first started needing an adaptive tool for the computer, I was very > annoyed with it, because it was not working well with my screen > magnifier/reader (WinZoom) - then our rep told me about > www.text.westlaw.com, the text-only version - and it is working quite > well. > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] > On Behalf Of James Weisberg > Sent: Monday, 07 December, 2009 9:15 AM > To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Westlaw or Lexis > > My preference is Westlaw as they have some pretty good support for JAWS. > I > have a contact name and number but have never used it for JAWS training > on > Westlaw (which is provided by West). > > James W. Weisberg, Esq. > > Law Office of J. William Weisberg > > 299 South Patencio Road #3 > > Palm Springs, California 92262 > > V: 916.425.1010 > > F: 916.374.7667 > > E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com > > Admitted in Wisconsin > > Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil > Rights > Advocacy for Children with Diabetes > > This message contains information which may be confidential and > privileged. > Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the > addressee), > you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any > information > contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, > please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from > your > system. > > This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client > relationship > nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William > Weisberg > expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in > accordance with this disclaimer. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] > On > Behalf Of Ben Karpilow > Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 7:50 AM > To: blind law mailing list > Subject: [blindlaw] Westlaw or Lexis > > Fellow Listers, do you preferWestlaw or Lexis, and why? (I'm on the > verge of > beginning my legal career and would like your collective insight). > Thanks, > Ben > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jimi-law%40dc. > rr.c > om > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4667 (20091207) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4667 (20091207) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4667 (20091207) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40 > pima.gov > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rumpole%40roadrunner.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.426 / Virus Database: 270.14.96/2548 - Release Date: 12/06/09 07:30:00 From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Mon Dec 7 22:42:49 2009 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2009 14:42:49 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] Westlaw or Lexis In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I have used both. Both are accessible with screen reading software. My pereference is Westlaw mainly because I prefer their style of organization and it was what I was first trained with back in the days of research using books and live readers. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ben Karpilow" To: "blind law mailing list" Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 7:50 AM Subject: [blindlaw] Westlaw or Lexis > Fellow Listers, do you preferWestlaw or Lexis, and why? (I'm on the verge > of beginning my legal career and would like your collective insight). > Thanks, Ben > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net From r.g.munro at gmail.com Mon Dec 7 23:03:35 2009 From: r.g.munro at gmail.com (Robert Munro) Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2009 18:03:35 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Westlaw or Lexis In-Reply-To: <1C09B58171332F49B237676A5158B1F7033D68D4@EVS02.central.pima.gov> References: <8F2F30B555C345D1A4AD5AD2438CB2C7@screnci.local> <1C09B58171332F49B237676A5158B1F7033D68D4@EVS02.central.pima.gov> Message-ID: <4b1d89c4.47c1f10a.3322.ffffd492@mx.google.com> Westlaw and Lexis are about the same, except for the Westlaw digest. This was extremely useful the past two summers when I worked for judges. Have your Westlaw rep show you how it works, and you'll be a goldmine of information to your colleagues. Onward! Rob Munro -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Susan Kelly Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 11:58 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Westlaw or Lexis Our office has a Westlaw contract, so we didn't get much choice, When I first started needing an adaptive tool for the computer, I was very annoyed with it, because it was not working well with my screen magnifier/reader (WinZoom) - then our rep told me about www.text.westlaw.com, the text-only version - and it is working quite well. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of James Weisberg Sent: Monday, 07 December, 2009 9:15 AM To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Westlaw or Lexis My preference is Westlaw as they have some pretty good support for JAWS. I have a contact name and number but have never used it for JAWS training on Westlaw (which is provided by West). James W. Weisberg, Esq. Law Office of J. William Weisberg 299 South Patencio Road #3 Palm Springs, California 92262 V: 916.425.1010 F: 916.374.7667 E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com Admitted in Wisconsin Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil Rights Advocacy for Children with Diabetes This message contains information which may be confidential and privileged. Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from your system. This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client relationship nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William Weisberg expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in accordance with this disclaimer. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ben Karpilow Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 7:50 AM To: blind law mailing list Subject: [blindlaw] Westlaw or Lexis Fellow Listers, do you preferWestlaw or Lexis, and why? (I'm on the verge of beginning my legal career and would like your collective insight). Thanks, Ben _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jimi-law%40dc. rr.c om __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4667 (20091207) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4667 (20091207) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4667 (20091207) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/susan.kelly%40 pima.gov _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/r.g.munro%40gmail. com From dandrews at visi.com Tue Dec 8 12:59:52 2009 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Tue, 08 Dec 2009 06:59:52 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] Amazon's Kindle to get audible menus, bigger font Message-ID: Amazon's Kindle to get audible menus, bigger font By Jessica Mintz Associated Press Posted: 12/07/2009 01:55:11 PM PST Updated: 12/07/2009 03:47:24 PM PST SEATTLE ­ Amazon.com will add two features to the Kindle e-book reader to make the gadget more accessible to blind and vision-impaired users. Monday's announcement comes a month after Syracuse University in Syracuse, N.Y., and the University of Wisconsin-Madison said they would not consider widely deploying the device as an alternative to paper textbooks until Amazon makes it easier for blind students to use. Both universities bought some Kindles to test this fall. The Kindle has a read-aloud feature that could be a boon to blind students and those with other disabilities including dyslexia, but turning it on requires navigating through screens of text menus. Amazon said Monday it is working on audible menus, which would let the Kindle speak menu options out loud. It's also working on an extra-large font for people with impaired vision. The additions should reach the Kindle next summer, Amazon said. Chris Danielsen, a spokesman for the National Federation of the Blind, said Monday that the organization doesn't know enough about the new features to say whether they adequately address concerns of the blind community. But, he said, it's a good sign Amazon is expressing commitment to improve the Kindle. Amazon released this year the $489 Kindle DX, a large-screen model aimed at textbook and newspaper readers. Several colleges including Arizona State University are testing the gadget this academic year and sending feedback to the company. The federation for the blind, which is based in Baltimore, teamed up with another advocacy group, the American Council of the Blind, to sue Arizona State in an attempt to block it from using the Kindle as a way to distribute electronic textbooks because the devices can't be used by blind students. It also filed complaints with the Justice Department against five other schools participating in the Kindle trial with Amazon: Case Western Reserve University in Cleveland, the Darden School of Business at the University of Virginia in Charlottesville, Va., Pace University in New York, Princeton University in Princeton, N.J., and Reed College in Portland, Ore. Syracuse University and the University of Wisconsin were not among the pilot-test schools. Danielsen declined to comment when asked if Amazon's proposed changes would lead the federation to abandon its complaints. From m_b_gilmore at yahoo.com Tue Dec 8 18:05:11 2009 From: m_b_gilmore at yahoo.com (Mike Gilmore) Date: Tue, 8 Dec 2009 10:05:11 -0800 (PST) Subject: [blindlaw] Westlaw question Message-ID: <399885.76182.qm@web112407.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Hello everyone.   I've been monitoring the Westlaw versus Lexis debate and I'm a Westlaw man. When I was a 1L, I began using Lexis and Westlaw a semester ahead of my sighted folks because they were learning the old-fashioned way of print materials. My law school had (and still does) a strict policy against collaboration for 1L's. (On a side note, this meant that I could use a sighted 2L or 3L to look up how to cite something in the blue book and then I would do the exercises.) I loved the text only Westlaw site and found Lexis to be frustrating. I could Sheppardize to my heart's content; I just found Westlaw easier to find the stuff that I was looking for.   So, what's this about the West Digest on Westlaw? How do you access it and what type of information does it provide? Also, if I recall correctly, Westlaw only goes back to the late '70's or early '80's for the code of federal regulations. If any of you use the C.F.R. and need a reg that dates prior to Westlaw's collection, where do you go on the Internet to find it?   Thanks.   Mike From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov Wed Dec 9 22:37:52 2009 From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel) Date: Wed, 9 Dec 2009 16:37:52 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] Amazon Working on Accessibility Features for Kindle, WebProNews, December 7 2009 Message-ID: Link: http://www.webpronews.com/topnews/2009/12/07/amazon-working-on-accessibility-features-for-kindle Text: Amazon Working on Accessibility Features for Kindle Amazon Making Kindle Improvements for Blind and Dyslexic By Chris Crum Amazon is making some enhancements to its Kindle electronic reader, aimed at improving the reading experience for people who are blind, visually impaired, or dyslexic. "Kindle is for anyone who loves to read-in fact, we've heard from thousands of vision-impaired customers and customers with learning disabilities over the past two years who have been helped tremendously by Kindle," said Amazon Kindle Vice President Ian Freed, Vice President. "With some key modifications, we believe Kindle can be a breakthrough device for the blind, and the team is excited about making these enhancements," added Freed. To make Kindle more useful for the blind, the Kindle team is currently working on an audible menuing system so blind and vision-impaired readers can easily navigate to books without the need for assistance. Blind people will also be able to listen to books with the "Read to Me" feature, just as they can currently do with the Kindle. Amazon will also include a new "super size" font, which increases the number of font sizes from six to eleven. The seventh size will be twice the height and width of the current largest font. Amazon's new Kindle features are scheduled to be released next summer. The device saw record sales in November. Amazon said it was the most "wished" for, the most "gifted," and the number one best-selling product across all of Amazon's product categories. Amazon was of course one of the top retail sites for Thanksgiving and Black Friday, and will likely be up there for the holiday season as a whole. From darlene.olsen at gmail.com Thu Dec 10 02:36:32 2009 From: darlene.olsen at gmail.com (Darlene Olsen) Date: Wed, 9 Dec 2009 18:36:32 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel / Canes References: <368035.91609.qm@web33006.mail.mud.yahoo.com><27D8A78BB0DF477DBDCCAF0D2A602EBF@screnci.local> <3A18ED1C06D3401AA8C99D87EA1966E7@StevePC> Message-ID: I strongly suggest that the training include international ships that travel inside the U.S. territory. Holland America Cruise Lines could use some assistance in this venue. Darlene Olsen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. Deeley" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 8:59 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel / Canes > Maybe we should form a consulting firm and offer disability training to > all airlines. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "James Weisberg" > To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" > Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 6:36 AM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel / Canes > > > I use a folding cane, which none of the airline personnel would have > reason > to know, and have NEVER had that issue with a fair amount of air travel. > I > take my folding cane after taking my seat and place it in the magazine > compartment in front of me on the seat back (cane = no dog as dog is far > superior! Fact!!) Perhaps you don't resemble a dirt bag like myself > which > may account for your additional obstacles? :-) > > James W. Weisberg, Esq. > > Law Office of J. William Weisberg > > 299 South Patencio Road #3 > > Palm Springs, California 92262 > > V: 916.425.1010 > > F: 916.374.7667 > > E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com > > Admitted in Wisconsin > > Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil Rights > Advocacy for Children with Diabetes > > This message contains information which may be confidential and > privileged. > Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), > you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information > contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, > please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from your > system. > > This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client > relationship > nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William > Weisberg > expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in > accordance with this disclaimer. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of Millie Rivera-Rau > Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 7:19 PM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel / Canes > > I have a question. Lately my long white cane has been taken from me after > I > get on the plane. Sometimes I can convince the personnel that I should be > permitted to keep it but other times I am not successful. Is there > something > that I can site that would get through to them? Or, am I required to > relinquish it? For some reason it has been a problem more in the last two > years then ever before. I push it to a point just after making a scene. > smile. The thing that really gets me is that they want to put it in an > overhead bin and usually it falls out as soon as the bin is opened and > hits > someone on the head! Then the other passengers realize I was right. Any > thoughts. > > Millie > > > > > > --- On Wed, 12/2/09, AZNOR99 at aol.com wrote: > > > From: AZNOR99 at aol.com > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org > Date: Wednesday, December 2, 2009, 12:24 PM > > > Hello, > > This is an interesting subject. TSA is generally not responsible for > providing a traveler with a guide as a passenger goes through screening. > You > can always request a Companion Pass from the airline for someone to > accompany you; however, it is at the discretion of the airline as to > whether or not > they grant this request. Most do grant the Pass as long as you give them > a valid reason, and most accept accompanying a minor or passenger with a > disability or elderly individual as a valid reason. You can request a > Companion Pass from the airline at the time of check-in if you bring > someone with > you to drop you off - you don't necessarily have to let the airline know > in advance that you plan to do this. If you want someone to meet you at > the > gate when you arrive though, you'll need to let the airline know in > advance. This is because you won't actually be with the person when they > obtain > the Companion Pass, so the airline can't verify that they know you or that > you'd want them to pick you up. Companions are subject to the same > screening and security measures as passengers - valid State or Federal ID, > human > and belonging scans, etc. TSA does not have jurisdiction over Companion > Pass issuance - that is at the discretion of the airlines - they are > subject > to the regs of the FAA. > > You can ask for a Guide at the airport as well. Generally airlines prefer > you do this in advance, but you can certainly choose to make such a > request when you arrive at the airport or land at your destination. If you > don't > let them know you need someone in advance though, you might have to wait > longer for someone to arrive, as airlines try to have staff waiting for > passengers about whom they know. We've all seen the line of wheel chairs > and > uniformed staff waiting when we deplane? Well, they're each usually > assigned to a particular person, and they usually know who that person is > ahead of > time. Airlines, and sometimes airports, are increasingly creating > "Passenger Assistance Departments," and escorting passengers is one of > their > primary functions. > > There are some airports that utilize the airport police or other airport > staff as escorts rather than airline personnel. Sometimes this is because > it is incredibly difficult to credential staff for all areas of an > airport, > > which such staff need to possess. Sometimes it may be a small airport, and > > it would be more efficient to assign escort responsibilities to one person > for all the airlines. Or there might be other reasons. > > However, TSOs - Transportation Security Officers) are trained in how to > interact with disabled passengers. For example, if you place your cane on > the conveyer belt, a TSO may offer to position you prior to entering the > human > scanner and reach out to hold your hands to guide you forward. Due to the > nature of the scanning equipment, a passenger must not touch the scanning > machine - it will not function properly if anything comes into contact > with > it. Some of us have had the experience of bumping the machine and setting > it off in the past. > > If you run your cane through the baggage scanner and ask for it back to > take through the human scanner, you have to be very careful, once again, > not > > to tap the scanner walls with the cane - it will likely set the machine > off. > Also, if your cane has metal - many of us use metal tips - then it may > cause the scanner to go off, necessitating the individual be referred to > secondary screening or wanding. > > I've personally had the experience of placing my cane on the baggage > scanning belt and walking toward the human scanner. I walked through the > scanner very slowly and did not set it off. However, I was referred to > secondary. I always ask why I'm being referred to Secondary (I'm in the > business of > wanting to know if I'm being discriminated against because of my religion, > national origin, or disability). The answer I usually get (not always > though, and I've got some funny stories about other times) is "it's > random." > I conveyed to the TSO that I could not move to the secondary screening > area > > until someone retrieved my cane from the conveyer belt. He got it for me > and asked, "Oh, is the reason you moved so slowly through the scanner > because you are blind?" I answered that it was, and he told me I was free > to go. > I insisted on going to Secondary, and he said, "Well you don't need to. > Your behavior isn't suspicious. I just thought it was because I didn't > know > > you were being careful not to bump the machine since you couldn't see > well." Part of their jobs as TSOs is to monitor suspicious behavior; part > of my > job is to convey the difference between suspicious behavior and cultural > norms. Needless to say I insisted on going to Secondary because I wanted > the chance to talk the issue through with the TSO. It was a teachable > moment, > and I think he really got there could be hundreds of reasons why someone > might move slowly through a machine. > > But for those that have had really bad experiences at TSA or CBP > checkpoints, there are a couple of different avenues you can take. If you > believe > you have been the subject of discrimination, you may file a CRCL (DHS > Office > for Civil Rights and Civil Liberties - and where I work) complaint. Go to > _www.dhs.gov/civilliberties_ (http://www.dhs.gov/civilliberties) to > download the form or send an email to _civil.liberties at dhs.gov_ > (mailto:civil.liberties at dhs.gov) explaining what happened. Please be sure > to give as much > detail as possible, including the date, airport name, terminal number, > time > > of day, the name of anyone you obtain, and a narrative explaining what > happened. If you have a customer service issue - for example a TSO was > rude > or dismissive, you may ask for a supervisor, a comment card, or both. You > can also contact your local field office after the fact to convey what > happened. > > My message is substantially longer than I intended, and I apologize for > the > length. > > Regards, > Ronza > > > > > In a message dated 12/2/2009 4:25:21 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, > ckrugman at sbcglobal.net writes: > > I travel frequently alone and the air lines and/or HSA provide needed > assistence upon my request. including through security check points and > picking up baggage and assistence with procuring ground transportation or > to > a waiting party. I have found HSA and airport staff to be very > cooperative. > Chuck > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "stiehm.law" > To: > Cc: > Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 12:57 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel > > >> In addition to the airlines, I have recently become curious as to what if >> any, accommodations for the TSA makes with respect to disabled people >> going through security and being picked up by somebody at the gate at the >> terminal at the other end of the flight. For example, do they permit a >> blind person who is traveling alone to be accompanied through security, >> down to the airline check-in counter at the gate by a non-ticketed >> person. >> >> At the other end, is a non-ticketed person permitted through security to >> go to the gate to meet a blind person flying alone? >> >> If TSA does not provide for such accommodations do the airlines take it >> on themselves to provide this service? >> >> Has anybody had any experience in this regard? Is the accommodation, if >> any, voluntary on the part of the TSA and/or the airlines or is it >> governed by regulation? >> >> Patrick H. Stiehm >> Stiehm Law Office >> Alexandria, VA 22309 >> 703-360-1089 (Voice) >> 703-935-8266 (Fax) >> >> >> >> Tue, 1 Dec 2009 11:30:37 -0800 "Russell J. Thomas, Jr." >> writes: >>> Off the top of my head, and without any new research, the only case >>> I >>> remember is a case challenging the accessibility of airline websites >>> with >>> respect to attempting to make reservations and ordering tickets on >>> line. >>> >>> I also think that there are regulations on the subject, especially >>> dealing >>> with how disabled passengers are to be treated (or perhaps on some >>> occasions >>> mistreated). >>> >>> I often thought it would be a good idea for the NFB to put together >>> a short >>> guide book concerning travel, including air travel, based upon >>> experiences >>> of NFB members, to be used as a reference guide for blind people who >>> use air >>> travel. Certainly things have changed since 911--some changes for >>> the good, >>> and others not so good. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Respectfully, >>> >>> >>> >>> Russell J. Thomas, Jr. >>> >>> THOMAS & ASSOCIATES >>> >>> www.californiaemployersattorneys.com >>> >>> >>> >>> Orange County Office >>> >>> 4121 Westerly Place, Suite 101 >>> >>> Newport Beach, California 92660 >>> >>> T: (949) 752-0101 >>> >>> F: (949) 257-4756 >>> >>> M: (949) 466-7238 >>> >>> >>> >>> Beverly Hills Office >>> >>> 9107 Wilshire Boulevard, Suite 450 >>> >>> Beverly Hills, California 90210 >>> >>> T: (310) 461-3561 >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>> Behalf Of James Weisberg >>> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 10:01 AM >>> To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' >>> Subject: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel >>> >>> Hi Folks: >>> >>> >>> >>> Anyone on the lists have experience or knowledge regarding the ADA >>> and suits >>> against air carriers for violations available for quick consult? >>> Thanks. >>> >>> >>> >>> James W. Weisberg, Esq. >>> >>> Law Office of J. William Weisberg >>> >>> 299 South Patencio Road #3 >>> >>> Palm Springs, California 92262 >>> >>> V: 916.425.1010 >>> >>> F: 916.374.7667 >>> >>> E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com >>> >>> Admitted in Wisconsin >>> >>> Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil >>> Rights >>> Advocacy for Children with Diabetes >>> >>> This message contains information which may be confidential and >>> privileged. >>> Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the >>> addressee), >>> you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any >>> information >>> contained in this message. If you have received this message in >>> error, >>> please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from >>> your >>> system. >>> >>> This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client >>> relationship >>> nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William >>> Weisberg >>> expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information >>> in >>> accordance with this disclaimer. >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> blindlaw: >>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rthomas%40rjtla >> wfi >>> rm.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for blindlaw: >>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stiehm.law%40ju >> no.com >>> >> >> ____________________________________________________________ >> Hotel >> Hotel pics, info and virtual tours. Click here to book a hotel online. >> > http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/c?cp=ewJKbyZ61QloDsW_i_oQ_wAAJ1BdRO > y9vkzpR6E_Fj7jZTbnAAYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAATRAAAAAA= >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob > al.net > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/aznor99%40aol.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mildredrivera%40ya > hoo.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jimi-law%40dc.rr.c > om > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4659 (20091203) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4659 (20091203) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4660 (20091204) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4660 (20091204) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.426 / Virus Database: 270.14.93/2544 - Release Date: 12/04/09 > 07:32:00 > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/darlene.olsen%40gmail.com > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature database 4661 (20091204) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4674 (20091209) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From ms at browngold.com Thu Dec 10 17:24:36 2009 From: ms at browngold.com (Mehgan Sidhu) Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2009 12:24:36 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Help request re MPRE / Bar Exam accommodations matter Message-ID: Dear All, As you may know, we are working on a case involving the denial of a test-taker's request to take the Bar Exam and MPRE using JAWS and ZoomText. In connection with that matter, 1. Does anyone know anything about an optometrist named David Damari? 2. Can anyone tell me of instances in which other standardized tests have allowed screen reader and/or screen magnification software to be used? 3. Does anyone know of someone who ended up using a reader for the multi-state or the MPRE and has a horror story to share about using a reader? Any help you can offer is appreciated. Thank you! Mehgan Sidhu Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP 120 East Baltimore Street, Suite 1700 Baltimore, Maryland 21202 410-962-1030 x1324 410-385-0869 (fax) ms at browngold.com www.browngold.com Celebrating our 25th Anniversary 1984 - 2009 Please consider the environment before printing this email. Confidentiality Notice This e-mail may contain confidential information that may also be legally privileged and that is intended only for the use of the addressee(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient or an authorized agent of the recipient, please be advised that any dissemination or copying of this e-mail, or taking of any action in reliance on the information contained herein, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify me immediately by use of the reply button, and then delete the e-mail from your system. Thank you! From jsorozco at gmail.com Thu Dec 10 19:46:09 2009 From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco) Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2009 14:46:09 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Help request re MPRE / Bar Exam accommodations matter In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <51C2773D5F66467987C61FA687948165@Rufus> In response to your second question, I just took the LSAT this past weekend and used JAWS on a laptop for the writing section. I used the same arrangement for the GRE two and a half years ago. Joe Orozco "A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the crowd."--Max Lucado -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Mehgan Sidhu Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2009 12:25 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: [blindlaw] Help request re MPRE / Bar Exam accommodations matter Dear All, As you may know, we are working on a case involving the denial of a test-taker's request to take the Bar Exam and MPRE using JAWS and ZoomText. In connection with that matter, 1. Does anyone know anything about an optometrist named David Damari? 2. Can anyone tell me of instances in which other standardized tests have allowed screen reader and/or screen magnification software to be used? 3. Does anyone know of someone who ended up using a reader for the multi-state or the MPRE and has a horror story to share about using a reader? Any help you can offer is appreciated. Thank you! Mehgan Sidhu Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP 120 East Baltimore Street, Suite 1700 Baltimore, Maryland 21202 410-962-1030 x1324 410-385-0869 (fax) ms at browngold.com www.browngold.com Celebrating our 25th Anniversary 1984 - 2009 Please consider the environment before printing this email. Confidentiality Notice This e-mail may contain confidential information that may also be legally privileged and that is intended only for the use of the addressee(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient or an authorized agent of the recipient, please be advised that any dissemination or copying of this e-mail, or taking of any action in reliance on the information contained herein, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify me immediately by use of the reply button, and then delete the e-mail from your system. Thank you! _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jsoroz co%40gmail.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4677 (20091210) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4677 (20091210) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From slabarre at labarrelaw.com Thu Dec 10 23:03:57 2009 From: slabarre at labarrelaw.com (Scott C. LaBarre) Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2009 16:03:57 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] this is a test, please disregard Message-ID: <548BD93673FC40319142AFD042D17303@labarre> Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. LaBarre Law Offices P.C. 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 Denver, Colorado 80222 303 504-5979 (voice) 303 757-3640 (fax) slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) www.labarrelaw.com (website) CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. From jimi-law at dc.rr.com Fri Dec 11 15:36:57 2009 From: jimi-law at dc.rr.com (James Weisberg) Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2009 07:36:57 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] Help request re MPRE / Bar Exam accommodations matter In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8EB46D1E7016481690749C4631C67464@Blind> Got the ultimate "Reader" horror story for you if you wish to give me a call. James W. Weisberg, Esq. Law Office of J. William Weisberg 299 South Patencio Road, Ste. 3 Palm Springs, CA 92262 V: 916-425-1010 F: 916-374-7667 E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com Admitted in Wisconsin Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil Rights Advocacy for Children with Diabetes This message contains information which may be confidential and privileged. Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from your system. This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client relationship nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William Weisberg expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in accordance with this disclaimer. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Mehgan Sidhu Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2009 9:25 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: [blindlaw] Help request re MPRE / Bar Exam accommodations matter Dear All, As you may know, we are working on a case involving the denial of a test-taker's request to take the Bar Exam and MPRE using JAWS and ZoomText. In connection with that matter, 1. Does anyone know anything about an optometrist named David Damari? 2. Can anyone tell me of instances in which other standardized tests have allowed screen reader and/or screen magnification software to be used? 3. Does anyone know of someone who ended up using a reader for the multi-state or the MPRE and has a horror story to share about using a reader? Any help you can offer is appreciated. Thank you! Mehgan Sidhu Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP 120 East Baltimore Street, Suite 1700 Baltimore, Maryland 21202 410-962-1030 x1324 410-385-0869 (fax) ms at browngold.com www.browngold.com Celebrating our 25th Anniversary 1984 - 2009 Please consider the environment before printing this email. Confidentiality Notice This e-mail may contain confidential information that may also be legally privileged and that is intended only for the use of the addressee(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient or an authorized agent of the recipient, please be advised that any dissemination or copying of this e-mail, or taking of any action in reliance on the information contained herein, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify me immediately by use of the reply button, and then delete the e-mail from your system. Thank you! _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jimi-law%40dc.rr.c om __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4674 (20091209) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4674 (20091209) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com From benkarpilow at gmail.com Fri Dec 11 18:46:07 2009 From: benkarpilow at gmail.com (Ben Karpilow) Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2009 10:46:07 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] Westlaw or Lexis References: Message-ID: Chuck, The following link is to a page that has all the judicial council forms, which appear accessible insofar as a jaws user can read/ fill them out. It's also free. Hope this helps. http://www.essentialpublishers.com/ ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 2:42 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Westlaw or Lexis >I have used both. Both are accessible with screen reading software. My >pereference is Westlaw mainly because I prefer their style of organization >and it was what I was first trained with back in the days of research using >books and live readers. > Chuck > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ben Karpilow" > To: "blind law mailing list" > Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 7:50 AM > Subject: [blindlaw] Westlaw or Lexis > > >> Fellow Listers, do you preferWestlaw or Lexis, and why? (I'm on the verge >> of beginning my legal career and would like your collective insight). >> Thanks, Ben >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/benkarpilow%40gmail.com From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Fri Dec 11 19:02:32 2009 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2009 11:02:32 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] Westlaw or Lexis In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Ben, Yes, this is the company that I told you about. I am planning to order the software after the first of the year. Where are you in California and what are you planning to do now that you passed the bar? Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal 1237 P Street Fresno, ca 93721 559-266-9237 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ben Karpilow" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 10:46 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Westlaw or Lexis > Chuck, The following link is to a page that has all the judicial council > forms, which appear accessible insofar as a jaws user can read/ fill them > out. It's also free. Hope this helps. > > http://www.essentialpublishers.com/ > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 2:42 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Westlaw or Lexis > > >>I have used both. Both are accessible with screen reading software. My >>pereference is Westlaw mainly because I prefer their style of organization >>and it was what I was first trained with back in the days of research >>using books and live readers. >> Chuck >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Ben Karpilow" >> To: "blind law mailing list" >> Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 7:50 AM >> Subject: [blindlaw] Westlaw or Lexis >> >> >>> Fellow Listers, do you preferWestlaw or Lexis, and why? (I'm on the >>> verge of beginning my legal career and would like your collective >>> insight). Thanks, Ben >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/benkarpilow%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net From benkarpilow at gmail.com Fri Dec 11 19:25:59 2009 From: benkarpilow at gmail.com (Ben Karpilow) Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2009 11:25:59 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] Westlaw or Lexis References: Message-ID: <7176AEDEA4914DB39A2341AB87D0835D@benbpgavlhgwwr> Chuck, i'm in Santa Rosa. I'm trying to get some contract work and am also considering going off on my own in the event nothing pans out for me. Call me sometime so we can talk over the phone. My # is 707- 548-8555. Regards, Ben ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 11:02 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Westlaw or Lexis > Hi Ben, > Yes, this is the company that I told you about. I am planning to order the > software after the first of the year. Where are you in California and what > are you planning to do now that you passed the bar? > Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal > 1237 P Street > Fresno, ca 93721 > 559-266-9237 > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ben Karpilow" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 10:46 AM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Westlaw or Lexis > > >> Chuck, The following link is to a page that has all the judicial council >> forms, which appear accessible insofar as a jaws user can read/ fill them >> out. It's also free. Hope this helps. >> >> http://www.essentialpublishers.com/ >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 2:42 PM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Westlaw or Lexis >> >> >>>I have used both. Both are accessible with screen reading software. My >>>pereference is Westlaw mainly because I prefer their style of >>>organization and it was what I was first trained with back in the days of >>>research using books and live readers. >>> Chuck >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Ben Karpilow" >>> To: "blind law mailing list" >>> Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 7:50 AM >>> Subject: [blindlaw] Westlaw or Lexis >>> >>> >>>> Fellow Listers, do you preferWestlaw or Lexis, and why? (I'm on the >>>> verge of beginning my legal career and would like your collective >>>> insight). Thanks, Ben >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/benkarpilow%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/benkarpilow%40gmail.com From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Sat Dec 12 03:44:16 2009 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2009 19:44:16 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] Westlaw or Lexis In-Reply-To: <7176AEDEA4914DB39A2341AB87D0835D@benbpgavlhgwwr> References: <7176AEDEA4914DB39A2341AB87D0835D@benbpgavlhgwwr> Message-ID: <050ACDC4FA3A4D3FA4019ACD944EFCE4@spike> I will give you a call. I meant to post this individually but sent it to the whole list. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ben Karpilow" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 11:25 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Westlaw or Lexis > Chuck, i'm in Santa Rosa. I'm trying to get some contract work and am also > considering going off on my own in the event nothing pans out for me. Call > me sometime so we can talk over the phone. My # is 707- 548-8555. Regards, > Ben > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 11:02 AM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Westlaw or Lexis > > >> Hi Ben, >> Yes, this is the company that I told you about. I am planning to order >> the software after the first of the year. Where are you in California and >> what are you planning to do now that you passed the bar? >> Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal >> 1237 P Street >> Fresno, ca 93721 >> 559-266-9237 >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Ben Karpilow" >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 10:46 AM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Westlaw or Lexis >> >> >>> Chuck, The following link is to a page that has all the judicial >>> council forms, which appear accessible insofar as a jaws user can read/ >>> fill them out. It's also free. Hope this helps. >>> >>> http://www.essentialpublishers.com/ >>> >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: >>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>> Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 2:42 PM >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Westlaw or Lexis >>> >>> >>>>I have used both. Both are accessible with screen reading software. My >>>>pereference is Westlaw mainly because I prefer their style of >>>>organization and it was what I was first trained with back in the days >>>>of research using books and live readers. >>>> Chuck >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Ben Karpilow" >>>> To: "blind law mailing list" >>>> Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 7:50 AM >>>> Subject: [blindlaw] Westlaw or Lexis >>>> >>>> >>>>> Fellow Listers, do you preferWestlaw or Lexis, and why? (I'm on the >>>>> verge of beginning my legal career and would like your collective >>>>> insight). Thanks, Ben >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> blindlaw: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/benkarpilow%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/benkarpilow%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net From cathrynisfinally at verizon.net Sat Dec 12 17:44:05 2009 From: cathrynisfinally at verizon.net (Cathryn Bonnette) Date: Sat, 12 Dec 2009 12:44:05 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Help request re MPRE / Bar Exam accommodations matter In-Reply-To: <8EB46D1E7016481690749C4631C67464@Blind> References: <8EB46D1E7016481690749C4631C67464@Blind> Message-ID: <99E6C1DCA64246FF99E28EE9382101D8@14bd0130080a469> I failed the MPRE the first time in CA because the reader could not hear the difference between "b" and "d", and I didn't realize that until after the test! Cathryn Bonnette -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of James Weisberg Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 10:37 AM To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Help request re MPRE / Bar Exam accommodations matter Got the ultimate "Reader" horror story for you if you wish to give me a call. James W. Weisberg, Esq. Law Office of J. William Weisberg 299 South Patencio Road, Ste. 3 Palm Springs, CA 92262 V: 916-425-1010 F: 916-374-7667 E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com Admitted in Wisconsin Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil Rights Advocacy for Children with Diabetes This message contains information which may be confidential and privileged. Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from your system. This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client relationship nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William Weisberg expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in accordance with this disclaimer. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Mehgan Sidhu Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2009 9:25 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: [blindlaw] Help request re MPRE / Bar Exam accommodations matter Dear All, As you may know, we are working on a case involving the denial of a test-taker's request to take the Bar Exam and MPRE using JAWS and ZoomText. In connection with that matter, 1. Does anyone know anything about an optometrist named David Damari? 2. Can anyone tell me of instances in which other standardized tests have allowed screen reader and/or screen magnification software to be used? 3. Does anyone know of someone who ended up using a reader for the multi-state or the MPRE and has a horror story to share about using a reader? Any help you can offer is appreciated. Thank you! Mehgan Sidhu Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP 120 East Baltimore Street, Suite 1700 Baltimore, Maryland 21202 410-962-1030 x1324 410-385-0869 (fax) ms at browngold.com www.browngold.com Celebrating our 25th Anniversary 1984 - 2009 Please consider the environment before printing this email. Confidentiality Notice This e-mail may contain confidential information that may also be legally privileged and that is intended only for the use of the addressee(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient or an authorized agent of the recipient, please be advised that any dissemination or copying of this e-mail, or taking of any action in reliance on the information contained herein, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify me immediately by use of the reply button, and then delete the e-mail from your system. Thank you! _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jimi-law%40dc.rr.c om __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4674 (20091209) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4674 (20091209) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cathrynisfinally%4 0verizon.net No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.427 / Virus Database: 270.14.104/2560 - Release Date: 12/12/09 07:38:00 From rwayne1 at nyc.rr.com Sat Dec 12 19:08:29 2009 From: rwayne1 at nyc.rr.com (ray wayne) Date: Sat, 12 Dec 2009 14:08:29 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Help request re MPRE / Bar Exam accommodations matter In-Reply-To: <99E6C1DCA64246FF99E28EE9382101D8@14bd0130080a469> References: <8EB46D1E7016481690749C4631C67464@Blind> <99E6C1DCA64246FF99E28EE9382101D8@14bd0130080a469> Message-ID: <20091212190829.rwayne1@nyc.rr.com> Wow! Next time try military code: alpha, bravo, charlie, delta, echo, etc. Ray ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cathryn Bonnette" To: "'Ationfbnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Date: Saturday, Dec 12, 2009 13:14:51 Subject: Re: [bllaw] Help request re MPRE / Bar Exam accommodations matter > > > I failed the MPRE the first time in CA because the reader could not hear the > difference between b and d, and I didn't realize that until after the > test! > > Cathryn Bonnette > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of James Weisberg > Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 10:37 AM > To: 'Ationfbnet Blind Law Mailing List' > Subject: Re: [bllaw] Help request re MPRE / Bar Exam accommodations > matter > > Got the ultimate "Reader" horror story for you if you wish to give me a > call. > > James W. Weisberg, Esq. > > Law Office of J. William Weisberg > > 299 South Patencio Road, Ste. 3 > > Palm Springs, CA 92262 > > V: 916-425-1010 > > F: 916-374-7667 > > E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com > > Admitted in Wisconsin > > Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil Rights > Advocacy for Children with Diabetes > > This message contains information which may be confidential and privileged. > Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), > you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information > contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, > please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from your > system. > > This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client relationship > nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William Weisberg > expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in > accordance with this disclaimer. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of Mehgan Sidhu > Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2009 9:25 AM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: [bllaw] Help request re MPRE / Bar Exam accommodations matter > > Dear All, > > As you may know, we are working on a case involving the denial of a > test-taker's request to take the Bar Exam and MPRE using JAWS and ZoomText. > In connection with that matter, > > > 1. Does anyone know anything about an optometrist named David Damari? > 2. Can anyone tell me of instances in which other standardized tests have > allowed screen reader and/or screen magnification software to be used? > 3. Does anyone know of someone who ended up using a reader for the > multi-state or the MPRE and has a horror story to share about using a > reader? > > Any help you can offer is appreciated. Thank you! > > Mehgan Sidhu > Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP > 120 East Baltimore Street, Suite 1700 > Baltimore, Maryland 21202 > 410-962-1030 x1324 > 410-385-0869 (fax) > ms at browngold.com > www.browngold.com > > Celebrating our 25th Anniversary 1984 �� 2009 > Please consider the environment before printing this email. > > Confidentiality Notice > > This e-mail may contain confidential information that may also be legally > privileged and that is intended only for the use of the addressee(s) named > above. If you are not the intended recipient or an authorized agent of the > recipient, please be advised that any dissemination or copying of this > e-mail, or taking of any action in reliance on the information contained > herein, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, > please notify me immediately by use of the reply button, and then delete the > e-mail from your system. Thank you! > > _______________________________________________ > bllaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > bllaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jimi-law%40dc.rr.c > om > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature > database 4674 (20091209) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature > database 4674 (20091209) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > bllaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > bllaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cathrynisfinally%4 > 0verizon.net > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG �� www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.427 / Virus Database: 270.14.104/2560 �� Release Date: 12/12/09 > 07:38:00 > > > _______________________________________________ > bllaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for bllaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rwayne1%40nyc.rr.com From rumpole at roadrunner.com Sat Dec 12 21:31:19 2009 From: rumpole at roadrunner.com (Ross Doerr) Date: Sat, 12 Dec 2009 16:31:19 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Westlaw or Lexis References: <7176AEDEA4914DB39A2341AB87D0835D@benbpgavlhgwwr> <050ACDC4FA3A4D3FA4019ACD944EFCE4@spike> Message-ID: <30F2BABC2CA94BF8A6B91179DCC72A05@none8a46117901> Dear listers: I have a slightly off-topic question - this is in regards to Audible.com books - can anyone tell me if the monthly charge for an audible subscription includes the price of books, or if that monthly charge is in addition to the full cost of the book, or if tyhe books you order come at a discounted price because you are a subscriber? The web site isn't really clear on that issue - and before I buy a subscription as a gift, I was wondering if anyone could contact me off-list with some practical information about being an audible.com subscriber. I see that they have a deal going for just over $7 a month -- but I don't know much more than that. My off-list email is: rumpole at roadrunner.com Just curious how others who use it like it. Thank you. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 10:44 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Westlaw or Lexis >I will give you a call. I meant to post this individually but sent it to >the > whole list. > Chuck > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ben Karpilow" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 11:25 AM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Westlaw or Lexis > > >> Chuck, i'm in Santa Rosa. I'm trying to get some contract work and am >> also >> considering going off on my own in the event nothing pans out for me. >> Call >> me sometime so we can talk over the phone. My # is 707- 548-8555. >> Regards, >> Ben >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 11:02 AM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Westlaw or Lexis >> >> >>> Hi Ben, >>> Yes, this is the company that I told you about. I am planning to order >>> the software after the first of the year. Where are you in California >>> and >>> what are you planning to do now that you passed the bar? >>> Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal >>> 1237 P Street >>> Fresno, ca 93721 >>> 559-266-9237 >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Ben Karpilow" >>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>> Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 10:46 AM >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Westlaw or Lexis >>> >>> >>>> Chuck, The following link is to a page that has all the judicial >>>> council forms, which appear accessible insofar as a jaws user can read/ >>>> fill them out. It's also free. Hope this helps. >>>> >>>> http://www.essentialpublishers.com/ >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: >>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>> Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 2:42 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Westlaw or Lexis >>>> >>>> >>>>>I have used both. Both are accessible with screen reading software. My >>>>>pereference is Westlaw mainly because I prefer their style of >>>>>organization and it was what I was first trained with back in the days >>>>>of research using books and live readers. >>>>> Chuck >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Ben Karpilow" >>>>> To: "blind law mailing list" >>>>> Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 7:50 AM >>>>> Subject: [blindlaw] Westlaw or Lexis >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Fellow Listers, do you preferWestlaw or Lexis, and why? (I'm on the >>>>>> verge of beginning my legal career and would like your collective >>>>>> insight). Thanks, Ben >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> blindlaw: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/benkarpilow%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/benkarpilow%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rumpole%40roadrunner.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.427 / Virus Database: 270.14.104/2560 - Release Date: 12/12/09 07:38:00 From angie.matney at gmail.com Sat Dec 12 22:21:29 2009 From: angie.matney at gmail.com (Angie Matney) Date: Sat, 12 Dec 2009 17:21:29 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Help request re MPRE / Bar Exam accommodations matter In-Reply-To: <99E6C1DCA64246FF99E28EE9382101D8@14bd0130080a469> References: <8EB46D1E7016481690749C4631C67464@Blind> <99E6C1DCA64246FF99E28EE9382101D8@14bd0130080a469> Message-ID: <9861FC2C3BD9406486D40CE7E8712F70@arm4rPC> When I went to take the LSAT, my proctor started out by informing me that he was "just a little hard-of-hearing." For a second, I panicked. In the end, I asked him to repeat b and d answers phonetically . I'm really glad he did that, because I wouldn't have gotten the score I did otherwise. I also failed the MPRE the first time. I don't know if it was the proctor or not--I had a lot of other things going on at the time. But I didn't study that much more the second time, and my score increased 41 points. I did not really have confidence in the first proctor. But I don't know if we had some of those "b" and "d" issues or not. I was a little concerned that this person might not have fully blackened in some of the circles. But as I said, there were other issues that weren't related to the proctor. Either way, it's all over now! Angie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cathryn Bonnette" To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Sent: Saturday, December 12, 2009 12:44 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Help request re MPRE / Bar Exam accommodations matter >I failed the MPRE the first time in CA because the reader could not hear >the > difference between "b" and "d", and I didn't realize that until after the > test! > > Cathryn Bonnette > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of James Weisberg > Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 10:37 AM > To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Help request re MPRE / Bar Exam accommodations > matter > > Got the ultimate "Reader" horror story for you if you wish to give me a > call. > > James W. Weisberg, Esq. > > Law Office of J. William Weisberg > > 299 South Patencio Road, Ste. 3 > > Palm Springs, CA 92262 > > V: 916-425-1010 > > F: 916-374-7667 > > E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com > > Admitted in Wisconsin > > Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil Rights > Advocacy for Children with Diabetes > > This message contains information which may be confidential and > privileged. > Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), > you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information > contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, > please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from your > system. > > This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client > relationship > nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William Weisberg > expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in > accordance with this disclaimer. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of Mehgan Sidhu > Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2009 9:25 AM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: [blindlaw] Help request re MPRE / Bar Exam accommodations matter > > Dear All, > > As you may know, we are working on a case involving the denial of a > test-taker's request to take the Bar Exam and MPRE using JAWS and > ZoomText. > In connection with that matter, > > > 1. Does anyone know anything about an optometrist named David Damari? > 2. Can anyone tell me of instances in which other standardized tests have > allowed screen reader and/or screen magnification software to be used? > 3. Does anyone know of someone who ended up using a reader for the > multi-state or the MPRE and has a horror story to share about using a > reader? > > Any help you can offer is appreciated. Thank you! > > Mehgan Sidhu > Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP > 120 East Baltimore Street, Suite 1700 > Baltimore, Maryland 21202 > 410-962-1030 x1324 > 410-385-0869 (fax) > ms at browngold.com > www.browngold.com > > Celebrating our 25th Anniversary 1984 - 2009 > Please consider the environment before printing this email. > > Confidentiality Notice > > This e-mail may contain confidential information that may also be legally > privileged and that is intended only for the use of the addressee(s) named > above. If you are not the intended recipient or an authorized agent of > the > recipient, please be advised that any dissemination or copying of this > e-mail, or taking of any action in reliance on the information contained > herein, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in > error, > please notify me immediately by use of the reply button, and then delete > the > e-mail from your system. Thank you! > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jimi-law%40dc.rr.c > om > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4674 (20091209) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4674 (20091209) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cathrynisfinally%4 > 0verizon.net > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.427 / Virus Database: 270.14.104/2560 - Release Date: > 12/12/09 > 07:38:00 > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie.matney%40gmail.com > From editor.nftb at gmail.com Sat Dec 12 23:06:20 2009 From: editor.nftb at gmail.com (Will May) Date: Sat, 12 Dec 2009 18:06:20 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Westlaw or Lexis In-Reply-To: <30F2BABC2CA94BF8A6B91179DCC72A05@none8a46117901> References: <7176AEDEA4914DB39A2341AB87D0835D@benbpgavlhgwwr> <050ACDC4FA3A4D3FA4019ACD944EFCE4@spike> <30F2BABC2CA94BF8A6B91179DCC72A05@none8a46117901> Message-ID: Hi; All Audible.com gives you is audible access..... they don't send you a printed book that some one else can read..... Audible is Bezos poor effort at reaching the vision impaired; it doesn't really work well..... Cheers, Will Editor at NewspapersForTheBlind.ORG On Sat, Dec 12, 2009 at 4:31 PM, Ross Doerr wrote: > Dear listers: > > I have a slightly off-topic question - this is in regards to Audible.com > books - > can anyone tell me if the monthly charge for an audible  subscription > includes the price of books, or if that monthly charge is in addition to the > full cost of the book, or if tyhe books you order come at a discounted price > because you are a subscriber? > The web site isn't really clear on that issue - and before I buy a > subscription as a gift, I was wondering if anyone could contact me off-list > with some practical information about being an audible.com subscriber. I see > that they have a deal going for just over $7 a month -- but I don't know > much more than that. > My off-list email is: > rumpole at roadrunner.com > Just curious how others who use it like it. > Thank you. > > ----- Original Message ----- From: > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 10:44 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Westlaw or Lexis > > >> I will give you a call. I meant to post this individually but sent it to >> the >> whole list. >> Chuck >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ben Karpilow" >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 11:25 AM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Westlaw or Lexis >> >> >>> Chuck, i'm in Santa Rosa. I'm trying to get some contract work and am >>> also >>> considering going off on my own in the event nothing pans out for me. >>> Call >>> me sometime so we can talk over the phone. My # is 707- 548-8555. >>> Regards, >>> Ben >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: >>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>> Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 11:02 AM >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Westlaw or Lexis >>> >>> >>>> Hi Ben, >>>> Yes, this is the company that I told you about. I am planning to order >>>> the software after the first of the year. Where are you in California >>>> and >>>> what are you planning to do now that you passed the bar? >>>> Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal >>>> 1237 P Street >>>> Fresno, ca 93721 >>>> 559-266-9237 >>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ben Karpilow" >>>> >>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>> Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 10:46 AM >>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Westlaw or Lexis >>>> >>>> >>>>> Chuck,  The following link is to a page that has all the judicial >>>>> council forms, which appear accessible insofar as a jaws user can read/ >>>>> fill them out. It's also free. Hope this helps. >>>>> >>>>> http://www.essentialpublishers.com/ >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: >>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>> Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 2:42 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Westlaw or Lexis >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> I have used both. Both are accessible with screen reading software. My >>>>>> pereference is Westlaw mainly because I prefer their style of >>>>>> organization and it was what I was first trained with back in the days >>>>>> of research using books and live readers. >>>>>> Chuck >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ben Karpilow" >>>>>> >>>>>> To: "blind law mailing list" >>>>>> Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 7:50 AM >>>>>> Subject: [blindlaw] Westlaw or Lexis >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> Fellow Listers, do you preferWestlaw or Lexis, and why? (I'm on the >>>>>>> verge of beginning my legal career and would like your collective >>>>>>> insight). Thanks, Ben >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/benkarpilow%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> blindlaw: >>>>> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/benkarpilow%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rumpole%40roadrunner.com > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.427 / Virus Database: 270.14.104/2560 - Release Date: 12/12/09 > 07:38:00 > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/editor.nftb%40gmail.com > From slabarre at labarrelaw.com Sat Dec 12 23:30:04 2009 From: slabarre at labarrelaw.com (Scott C. LaBarre) Date: Sat, 12 Dec 2009 16:30:04 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Westlaw or Lexis References: <7176AEDEA4914DB39A2341AB87D0835D@benbpgavlhgwwr><050ACDC4FA3A4D3FA4019ACD944EFCE4@spike> <30F2BABC2CA94BF8A6B91179DCC72A05@none8a46117901> Message-ID: The monthly charge gives you a certain number of credits each month depending upon the plan. I had the gold plan which gave you one credit a month. So, for $14.95 a month or whatever it was, I could get one book a month. If you don't use the credit every month, they build up. The monthly fee is less than the cost of most books etc. Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. LaBarre Law Offices P.C. 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 Denver, Colorado 80222 303 504-5979 (voice) 303 757-3640 (fax) slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) www.labarrelaw.com (website) CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ross Doerr" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Saturday, December 12, 2009 2:31 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Westlaw or Lexis > Dear listers: > > I have a slightly off-topic question - this is in regards to Audible.com > books - > can anyone tell me if the monthly charge for an audible subscription > includes the price of books, or if that monthly charge is in addition to > the full cost of the book, or if tyhe books you order come at a discounted > price because you are a subscriber? > The web site isn't really clear on that issue - and before I buy a > subscription as a gift, I was wondering if anyone could contact me > off-list with some practical information about being an audible.com > subscriber. I see that they have a deal going for just over $7 a month -- > but I don't know much more than that. > My off-list email is: > rumpole at roadrunner.com > Just curious how others who use it like it. > Thank you. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 10:44 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Westlaw or Lexis > > >>I will give you a call. I meant to post this individually but sent it to >>the >> whole list. >> Chuck >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Ben Karpilow" >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 11:25 AM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Westlaw or Lexis >> >> >>> Chuck, i'm in Santa Rosa. I'm trying to get some contract work and am >>> also >>> considering going off on my own in the event nothing pans out for me. >>> Call >>> me sometime so we can talk over the phone. My # is 707- 548-8555. >>> Regards, >>> Ben >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: >>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>> Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 11:02 AM >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Westlaw or Lexis >>> >>> >>>> Hi Ben, >>>> Yes, this is the company that I told you about. I am planning to order >>>> the software after the first of the year. Where are you in California >>>> and >>>> what are you planning to do now that you passed the bar? >>>> Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal >>>> 1237 P Street >>>> Fresno, ca 93721 >>>> 559-266-9237 >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Ben Karpilow" >>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>> Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 10:46 AM >>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Westlaw or Lexis >>>> >>>> >>>>> Chuck, The following link is to a page that has all the judicial >>>>> council forms, which appear accessible insofar as a jaws user can >>>>> read/ >>>>> fill them out. It's also free. Hope this helps. >>>>> >>>>> http://www.essentialpublishers.com/ >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: >>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>> Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 2:42 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Westlaw or Lexis >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>I have used both. Both are accessible with screen reading software. My >>>>>>pereference is Westlaw mainly because I prefer their style of >>>>>>organization and it was what I was first trained with back in the days >>>>>>of research using books and live readers. >>>>>> Chuck >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: "Ben Karpilow" >>>>>> To: "blind law mailing list" >>>>>> Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 7:50 AM >>>>>> Subject: [blindlaw] Westlaw or Lexis >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> Fellow Listers, do you preferWestlaw or Lexis, and why? (I'm on the >>>>>>> verge of beginning my legal career and would like your collective >>>>>>> insight). Thanks, Ben >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/benkarpilow%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> blindlaw: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/benkarpilow%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rumpole%40roadrunner.com > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.427 / Virus Database: 270.14.104/2560 - Release Date: > 12/12/09 07:38:00 > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/slabarre%40labarrelaw.com > From angie.matney at gmail.com Sat Dec 12 23:57:13 2009 From: angie.matney at gmail.com (Angie Matney) Date: Sat, 12 Dec 2009 18:57:13 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Audible.com was Re: Westlaw or Lexis In-Reply-To: References: <7176AEDEA4914DB39A2341AB87D0835D@benbpgavlhgwwr><050ACDC4FA3A4D3FA4019ACD944EFCE4@spike><30F2BABC2CA94BF8A6B91179DCC72A05@none8a46117901> Message-ID: <35637859E3D04FAF94BAD2C80391D198@arm4rPC> If this conversation is to take place on this list, please change the subject header. Thanks, Angie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Will May" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Saturday, December 12, 2009 6:06 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Westlaw or Lexis Hi; All Audible.com gives you is audible access..... they don't send you a printed book that some one else can read..... Audible is Bezos poor effort at reaching the vision impaired; it doesn't really work well..... Cheers, Will Editor at NewspapersForTheBlind.ORG On Sat, Dec 12, 2009 at 4:31 PM, Ross Doerr wrote: > Dear listers: > > I have a slightly off-topic question - this is in regards to Audible.com > books - > can anyone tell me if the monthly charge for an audible subscription > includes the price of books, or if that monthly charge is in addition to > the > full cost of the book, or if tyhe books you order come at a discounted > price > because you are a subscriber? > The web site isn't really clear on that issue - and before I buy a > subscription as a gift, I was wondering if anyone could contact me > off-list > with some practical information about being an audible.com subscriber. I > see > that they have a deal going for just over $7 a month -- but I don't know > much more than that. > My off-list email is: > rumpole at roadrunner.com > Just curious how others who use it like it. > Thank you. > > ----- Original Message ----- From: > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 10:44 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Westlaw or Lexis > > >> I will give you a call. I meant to post this individually but sent it to >> the >> whole list. >> Chuck >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ben Karpilow" >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 11:25 AM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Westlaw or Lexis >> >> >>> Chuck, i'm in Santa Rosa. I'm trying to get some contract work and am >>> also >>> considering going off on my own in the event nothing pans out for me. >>> Call >>> me sometime so we can talk over the phone. My # is 707- 548-8555. >>> Regards, >>> Ben >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: >>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>> Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 11:02 AM >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Westlaw or Lexis >>> >>> >>>> Hi Ben, >>>> Yes, this is the company that I told you about. I am planning to order >>>> the software after the first of the year. Where are you in California >>>> and >>>> what are you planning to do now that you passed the bar? >>>> Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal >>>> 1237 P Street >>>> Fresno, ca 93721 >>>> 559-266-9237 >>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ben Karpilow" >>>> >>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>> Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 10:46 AM >>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Westlaw or Lexis >>>> >>>> >>>>> Chuck, The following link is to a page that has all the judicial >>>>> council forms, which appear accessible insofar as a jaws user can >>>>> read/ >>>>> fill them out. It's also free. Hope this helps. >>>>> >>>>> http://www.essentialpublishers.com/ >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: >>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>>> Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 2:42 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Westlaw or Lexis >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> I have used both. Both are accessible with screen reading software. >>>>>> My >>>>>> pereference is Westlaw mainly because I prefer their style of >>>>>> organization and it was what I was first trained with back in the >>>>>> days >>>>>> of research using books and live readers. >>>>>> Chuck >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ben Karpilow" >>>>>> >>>>>> To: "blind law mailing list" >>>>>> Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 7:50 AM >>>>>> Subject: [blindlaw] Westlaw or Lexis >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> Fellow Listers, do you preferWestlaw or Lexis, and why? (I'm on the >>>>>>> verge of beginning my legal career and would like your collective >>>>>>> insight). Thanks, Ben >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/benkarpilow%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> blindlaw: >>>>> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/benkarpilow%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rumpole%40roadrunner.com > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.427 / Virus Database: 270.14.104/2560 - Release Date: > 12/12/09 > 07:38:00 > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/editor.nftb%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie.matney%40gmail.com From cathrynisfinally at verizon.net Sun Dec 13 21:34:41 2009 From: cathrynisfinally at verizon.net (Cathryn Bonnette) Date: Sun, 13 Dec 2009 16:34:41 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Help request re MPRE / Bar Exam accommodations matter In-Reply-To: <20091212190829.rwayne1@nyc.rr.com> References: <8EB46D1E7016481690749C4631C67464@Blind> <99E6C1DCA64246FF99E28EE9382101D8@14bd0130080a469> <20091212190829.rwayne1@nyc.rr.com> Message-ID: Done! I just didn't have that military mindset initially! -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of ray wayne Sent: Saturday, December 12, 2009 2:08 PM To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Help request re MPRE / Bar Exam accommodations matter Wow! Next time try military code: alpha, bravo, charlie, delta, echo, etc. Ray ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cathryn Bonnette" To: "'Ationfbnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Date: Saturday, Dec 12, 2009 13:14:51 Subject: Re: [bllaw] Help request re MPRE / Bar Exam accommodations matter > > > I failed the MPRE the first time in CA because the reader could not hear the > difference between b and d, and I didn't realize that until after the > test! > > Cathryn Bonnette > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of James Weisberg > Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 10:37 AM > To: 'Ationfbnet Blind Law Mailing List' > Subject: Re: [bllaw] Help request re MPRE / Bar Exam accommodations > matter > > Got the ultimate "Reader" horror story for you if you wish to give me a > call. > > James W. Weisberg, Esq. > > Law Office of J. William Weisberg > > 299 South Patencio Road, Ste. 3 > > Palm Springs, CA 92262 > > V: 916-425-1010 > > F: 916-374-7667 > > E-Mail: jimi-law at dc.rr.com > > Admitted in Wisconsin > > Nationwide Practice Limited to Immigration Removal Defense & Civil Rights > Advocacy for Children with Diabetes > > This message contains information which may be confidential and privileged. > Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), > you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information > contained in this message. If you have received this message in error, > please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message from your > system. > > This exchange of information does not create an attorney-client relationship > nor does it constitute legal advice. The Law Office of J. William Weisberg > expects the recipient will independently evaluate this information in > accordance with this disclaimer. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of Mehgan Sidhu > Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2009 9:25 AM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: [bllaw] Help request re MPRE / Bar Exam accommodations matter > > Dear All, > > As you may know, we are working on a case involving the denial of a > test-taker's request to take the Bar Exam and MPRE using JAWS and ZoomText. > In connection with that matter, > > > 1. Does anyone know anything about an optometrist named David Damari? > 2. Can anyone tell me of instances in which other standardized tests have > allowed screen reader and/or screen magnification software to be used? > 3. Does anyone know of someone who ended up using a reader for the > multi-state or the MPRE and has a horror story to share about using a > reader? > > Any help you can offer is appreciated. Thank you! > > Mehgan Sidhu > Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP > 120 East Baltimore Street, Suite 1700 > Baltimore, Maryland 21202 > 410-962-1030 x1324 > 410-385-0869 (fax) > ms at browngold.com > www.browngold.com > > Celebrating our 25th Anniversary 1984  2009 > Please consider the environment before printing this email. > > Confidentiality Notice > > This e-mail may contain confidential information that may also be legally > privileged and that is intended only for the use of the addressee(s) named > above. If you are not the intended recipient or an authorized agent of the > recipient, please be advised that any dissemination or copying of this > e-mail, or taking of any action in reliance on the information contained > herein, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, > please notify me immediately by use of the reply button, and then delete the > e-mail from your system. Thank you! > > _______________________________________________ > bllaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > bllaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jimi-law%40dc.rr.c > om > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature > database 4674 (20091209) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature > database 4674 (20091209) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > bllaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > bllaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cathrynisfinally%4 > 0verizon.net > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG  www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.427 / Virus Database: 270.14.104/2560  Release Date: 12/12/09 > 07:38:00 > > > _______________________________________________ > bllaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for bllaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rwayne1%40nyc.rr.c om No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.427 / Virus Database: 270.14.104/2560 - Release Date: 12/12/09 07:38:00 From william.odonnell1 at yahoo.com Mon Dec 14 06:48:16 2009 From: william.odonnell1 at yahoo.com (William ODonnell) Date: Sun, 13 Dec 2009 22:48:16 -0800 (PST) Subject: [blindlaw] T-mobile Message-ID: <59364.26897.qm@web30901.mail.mud.yahoo.com> This email is being sent on behalf of William O’Donnell in care of Yvetta Scott, The below post is lengthy; however, it is in regard to T-Mobile and some customer service issues that she is having. I have been a t-mobile customer since 2005. I am currently locked into a contract until 2011. My issue is the inaccessibility of both t-mobiles products and the insensitivity toward my visual impairment by the representatives from t-mobile. I prefer a product that has both a screen-reader and a screen magnification program. However, screen magnification (ability to increase font to at least 14 PT) is absolutely necessary for me to use my phone affectively. I use phones that have complete data functionality as this is my main source of internet use especially email exchange. Over the years, I have had phones such as the dash, Samsung slider, and most recently, a blackberry 8320. These phones that I have had provided the ability to increase the font to a suitable size; however, I ran in to many technical difficulties. These difficulties ranged from frequent system failures with the phones, as well as the phones rebooting themselves during calls or other important activities. My problem with the screen magnification capabilities is as follows. My newest blackberry 9700 does not save the font changes to be applied on all the phones functions. In addition, when I am on the internet, and try to use the zoom-in function feature, the words become jumbled and unreadable. I proseaded to obtain a phone that met my needs. This is where the problems began with both the custimor service representatives from T-mobile as well as the account specialty department. Over the past few months, I have had many conversations in an attempt at finding an accessible phone for my needs. Many times, I have been misinformed about t-mobiles products wich turned out to be inaccessible. An example of this was the G1 and the My touch. In a finall attempt at finding an accessible phone, I visited the T-mobile store located at 735 6TH Avenue in New York City on Friday, December 11, 2009 at 4:00PM. The in-store representative was understanding of my needs and spent an hour trying to find a phone for me. In his attempts, He contacted the custimor care call center for some sudgestions. After a few moments, a request was given to the representative for me to speek with the custimor care agent. Although I can not recollect the agents name, I do recall him saying that “as the technology becomes newer, they are taking out the feature which enables custimors to increase the font size. The call concluded with me realizing that I must cancel my service with this company. The in-store representative then showed me his personal HTC Touch Pro 2 which has the ability to increase the font size; however, the font can only be increased to an approximate size of 10PT. I have done some research and found that AT&T is able to successfully meet my needs. I am ready to cancel my contract with T-mobile As a result of T-mobile’s inability to provide an accessible phone for me. This evening, I contacted T-Mobile to discuss canceling my contract. Once again, the representative tried to offer me several phones such as the G1 and My touch. In addition, she informed me that “by law, T-mobile offers phones for the hearing impared and the blind; however, these are simple phones that do not support data plans.” She proseaded to tell me that most of there visually impared custimors “don’t use data plans.” She told me that I would have to pay a cancellation fee of $200.00. I asked to speek to a supervizer about this since I feel that I should not be subjected to pay this fee. She then told me that I should contact there legal department at the following address. T-mobile wireless: Legal department 12920 South East 38TH Street Bellevue Washington 98006-1350 I would appreciate any help in this matter as I feel I should not be penalized for canceling a service that I can not use. I can be reached via email and telephone at the following. Email: yvtscott at gmail.com and (917)407-5666. Thank you in advance, Yvetta Scott From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Mon Dec 14 08:06:29 2009 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2009 00:06:29 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] T-mobile In-Reply-To: <59364.26897.qm@web30901.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <59364.26897.qm@web30901.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5558C609862F4E8AB6B5E6865834315F@spike> If NFB doesn't get involved with this there is a consumer organization that advocates regarding issues of cell phone contracts called mywireless.org. Their contact information is as follows: I don't know that they would become individual litigation of this matter but they may be interested. Contact MyWireless.org® Mailing Address MyWireless.org www.mywireless.org 1400 16th Street, NW, Suite 600 Washington, D.C. 20036 Phone and Email 202-736-3889 direct 1-888-MYWLESS toll-free 202-736-3688 fax info at mywireless.org Press Inquiries Brian Johnston Director of Communications & Federal Advocacy 202-736-2980 desk 202-431-4866 cell press at mywireless.org Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal 1237 P Street Fresno ca 93721 559-266-9237 ----- Original Message ----- From: "William ODonnell" To: Sent: Sunday, December 13, 2009 10:48 PM Subject: [blindlaw] T-mobile > This email is being sent on behalf of William O’Donnell in care of Yvetta > Scott, The below post is lengthy; however, it is in regard to T-Mobile > and some customer service issues that she is having. > I have been a t-mobile customer since 2005. I am currently locked into a > contract until 2011. My issue is the inaccessibility of both t-mobiles > products and the insensitivity toward my visual impairment by the > representatives from t-mobile. > I prefer a product that has both a screen-reader and a screen > magnification program. However, screen magnification (ability to increase > font to at least 14 PT) is absolutely necessary for me to use my phone > affectively. > I use phones that have complete data functionality as this is my main > source of internet use especially email exchange. Over the years, I have > had phones such as the dash, Samsung slider, and most recently, a > blackberry 8320. These phones that I have had provided the ability to > increase the font to a suitable size; however, I ran in to many technical > difficulties. These difficulties ranged from frequent system failures > with the phones, as well as the phones rebooting themselves during calls > or other important activities. > My problem with the screen magnification capabilities is as follows. My > newest blackberry 9700 does not save the font changes to be applied on all > the phones functions. In addition, when I am on the internet, and try to > use the zoom-in function feature, the words become jumbled and unreadable. > I proseaded to obtain a phone that met my needs. This is where the > problems began with both the custimor service representatives from > T-mobile as well as the account specialty department. Over the past few > months, I have had many conversations in an attempt at finding an > accessible phone for my needs. Many times, I have been misinformed about > t-mobiles products wich turned out to be inaccessible. An example of this > was the G1 and the My touch. In a finall attempt at finding an accessible > phone, I visited the T-mobile store located at 735 6TH Avenue in New York > City on Friday, December 11, 2009 at 4:00PM. The in-store representative > was understanding of my > needs and spent an hour trying to find a phone for me. In his attempts, > He contacted the custimor care call center for some sudgestions. After a > few moments, a request was given to the representative for me to speek > with the custimor care agent. Although I can not recollect the agents > name, I do recall him saying that “as the technology becomes newer, they > are taking out the feature which enables custimors to increase the font > size. The call concluded with me realizing that I must cancel my service > with this company. The in-store representative then showed me his > personal HTC Touch Pro 2 which has the ability to increase the font size; > however, the font can only be increased to an approximate size of 10PT. > I have done some research and found that AT&T is able to successfully meet > my needs. I am ready to cancel my contract with T-mobile As a result of > T-mobile’s inability to provide an accessible phone for me. This evening, > I contacted T-Mobile to discuss canceling my contract. Once again, the > representative tried to offer me several phones such as the G1 and My > touch. In addition, she informed me that “by law, T-mobile offers phones > for the hearing impared and the blind; however, these are simple phones > that do not support data plans.” She proseaded to tell me that most of > there visually impared custimors “don’t use data plans.” She told me that > I would have to pay a cancellation fee of $200.00. I asked to speek to a > supervizer about this since I feel that I should not be subjected to pay > this fee. She then told me that I should contact there legal department > at the following address. T-mobile wireless: Legal department 12920 South > East 38TH Street Bellevue Washington 98006-1350 > I would appreciate any help in this matter as I feel I should not be > penalized for canceling a service that I can not use. I can be reached > via email and telephone at the following. Email: yvtscott at gmail.com and > (917)407-5666. Thank you in advance, > Yvetta Scott > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net > From william.odonnell1 at yahoo.com Mon Dec 14 08:19:29 2009 From: william.odonnell1 at yahoo.com (William ODonnell) Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2009 00:19:29 -0800 (PST) Subject: [blindlaw] needed to re-post. Message-ID: <405365.81793.qm@web30907.mail.mud.yahoo.com> This email is being sent on behalf of William O’Donnell in care of Yvetta Scott, The below post is lengthy; however, it is in regard to T-Mobile and some customer service issues that she is having. I have been a t-mobile customer since 2005. I am currently locked into a contract until 2011. My issue is the inaccessibility of both t-mobiles products and the insensitivity toward my visual impairment by the representatives from t-mobile. I prefer a product that has both a screen-reader and a screen magnification program. However, screen magnification (ability to increase font to at least 14 PT) is absolutely necessary for me to use my phone affectively. I use phones that have complete data functionality as this is my main source of internet use especially email exchange. Over the years, I have had phones such as the dash, Samsung slider, and most recently, a blackberry 8320. These phones that I have had provided the ability to increase the font to a suitable size; however, I ran in to many technical difficulties. These difficulties ranged from frequent system failures with the phones, as well as the phones rebooting themselves during calls or other important activities. My problem with the screen magnification capabilities is as follows. My newest blackberry 9700 does not save the font changes to be applied on all the phones functions. In addition, when I am on the internet, and try to use the zoom-in function feature, the words become jumbled and unreadable. I proceeded to obtain a phone that met my needs. This is where the problems began with both the customer service representatives from T-mobile as well as the account specialty department. Over the past few months, I have had many conversations in an attempt at finding an accessible phone for my needs. Many times, I have been misinformed about t-mobiles products which turned out to be inaccessible. An example of this was the G1 and the touch. In a final attempt at finding an accessible phone, I visited the T-mobile store located at 735 6TH Avenue in New York City on Friday, December 11, 2009 at 4:00PM. The in-store representative was understanding of my needs and spent an hour trying to find a phone for me. In his attempts, He contacted the customer care call center for some suggestions. After a few moments, a request was given to the representative for me to speak with the customer care agent. Although I can not recollect the agent’s name, I do recall him saying that “as the technology becomes newer, they are taking out the feature which enables customers to increase the font size. The call concluded with me realizing that I must cancel my service with this company. The in-store representative then showed me his personal HTC Touch Pro 2 which has the ability to increase the font size; however, the font can only be increased to an approximate size of 10PT. I have done some research and found that AT&T is able to successfully meet my needs. I am ready to cancel my contract with T-mobile As a result of T-mobile’s inability to provide an accessible phone for me. This evening, I contacted T-Mobile to discuss canceling my contract. Once again, the representative tried to offer me several phones such as the G1 and My touch. In addition, she informed me that “by law, T-mobile offers phones for the hearing impaired and the blind; however, these are simple phones that do not support data plans.” She proceeded to tell me that most of their visually impaired customers “don’t use data plans.” She told me that I would have to pay a cancellation fee of $200.00. I asked to speak to a supervisor about this since I feel that I should not be subjected to pay this fee. She then told me that I should contact their legal department at the following address. T-mobile wireless: Legal department 12920 South East 38TH Street Bellevue Washington 98006-1350 I would appreciate any help in this matter as I feel I should not be penalized for canceling a service that I can not use. I can be reached via email and help in this matter as I feel I should not be penalized for canceling a service that I can not use. I can be reached via email and telephone at the following. My contact email is yvtscott at gmail.com and my phone number is (917)407-5666. Thank you in advance, Yvetta Scott From rthomas at rjtlawfirm.com Mon Dec 14 14:23:22 2009 From: rthomas at rjtlawfirm.com (Russell J. Thomas, Jr.) Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2009 06:23:22 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] needed to re-post. In-Reply-To: <405365.81793.qm@web30907.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <405365.81793.qm@web30907.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1C68F39873B84CE1BA07E309DB39C9E2@russ> I attended a seminar last summer concerning cell phone accessibility for the blind in San Francisco. I believe it was arranged by the San Francisco Lighthouse for the Blind. The major companies, including Tmobile, had representatives present, each of whom stressed theire awareness of the needs of blind customers. Try to find out from someone in TMobile the name of the person who is responsible for these issues. Dealing with local store people on these issues is a waste of time. None of them have any real product knowledge and are absolutely clueless when it comes to our needs. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of William ODonnell Sent: Monday, December 14, 2009 12:19 AM To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org Subject: [blindlaw] needed to re-post. This email is being sent on behalf of William O'Donnell in care of Yvetta Scott, The below post is lengthy; however, it is in regard to T-Mobile and some customer service issues that she is having. I have been a t-mobile customer since 2005. I am currently locked into a contract until 2011. My issue is the inaccessibility of both t-mobiles products and the insensitivity toward my visual impairment by the representatives from t-mobile. I prefer a product that has both a screen-reader and a screen magnification program. However, screen magnification (ability to increase font to at least 14 PT) is absolutely necessary for me to use my phone affectively. I use phones that have complete data functionality as this is my main source of internet use especially email exchange. Over the years, I have had phones such as the dash, Samsung slider, and most recently, a blackberry 8320. These phones that I have had provided the ability to increase the font to a suitable size; however, I ran in to many technical difficulties. These difficulties ranged from frequent system failures with the phones, as well as the phones rebooting themselves during calls or other important activities. My problem with the screen magnification capabilities is as follows. My newest blackberry 9700 does not save the font changes to be applied on all the phones functions. In addition, when I am on the internet, and try to use the zoom-in function feature, the words become jumbled and unreadable. I proceeded to obtain a phone that met my needs. This is where the problems began with both the customer service representatives from T-mobile as well as the account specialty department. Over the past few months, I have had many conversations in an attempt at finding an accessible phone for my needs. Many times, I have been misinformed about t-mobiles products which turned out to be inaccessible. An example of this was the G1 and the touch. In a final attempt at finding an accessible phone, I visited the T-mobile store located at 735 6TH Avenue in New York City on Friday, December 11, 2009 at 4:00PM. The in-store representative was understanding of my needs and spent an hour trying to find a phone for me. In his attempts, He contacted the customer care call center for some suggestions. After a few moments, a request was given to the representative for me to speak with the customer care agent. Although I can not recollect the agent's name, I do recall him saying that "as the technology becomes newer, they are taking out the feature which enables customers to increase the font size. The call concluded with me realizing that I must cancel my service with this company. The in-store representative then showed me his personal HTC Touch Pro 2 which has the ability to increase the font size; however, the font can only be increased to an approximate size of 10PT. I have done some research and found that AT&T is able to successfully meet my needs. I am ready to cancel my contract with T-mobile As a result of T-mobile's inability to provide an accessible phone for me. This evening, I contacted T-Mobile to discuss canceling my contract. Once again, the representative tried to offer me several phones such as the G1 and My touch. In addition, she informed me that "by law, T-mobile offers phones for the hearing impaired and the blind; however, these are simple phones that do not support data plans." She proceeded to tell me that most of their visually impaired customers "don't use data plans." She told me that I would have to pay a cancellation fee of $200.00. I asked to speak to a supervisor about this since I feel that I should not be subjected to pay this fee. She then told me that I should contact their legal department at the following address. T-mobile wireless: Legal department 12920 South East 38TH Street Bellevue Washington 98006-1350 I would appreciate any help in this matter as I feel I should not be penalized for canceling a service that I can not use. I can be reached via email and help in this matter as I feel I should not be penalized for canceling a service that I can not use. I can be reached via email and telephone at the following. My contact email is yvtscott at gmail.com and my phone number is (917)407-5666. Thank you in advance, Yvetta Scott _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rthomas%40rjtlawfi rm.com From ukekearuaro at valtdnet.com Mon Dec 14 17:13:46 2009 From: ukekearuaro at valtdnet.com (Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc.) Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2009 10:13:46 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] T-mobile References: <59364.26897.qm@web30901.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hello Yvetta: Why not file a complaint with the FCC? It does have a department that can address the issues you have. I am away from my desk as I type this; if no one else provides the info before I can get to it, I shall repost the FCC contact info here or send them to you privately. Sincerely, Olusegun Denver, Colorado From steve.jacobson at visi.com Mon Dec 14 17:15:24 2009 From: steve.jacobson at visi.com (Steve Jacobson) Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2009 11:15:24 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] needed to re-post. In-Reply-To: <405365.81793.qm@web30907.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: William, I am not a lawyer so I don't know how solid your legal position is. However, in talking with T-Mobile, keep in mind that the fee they want when you cancel a contract is mostly to reclaim the subsidy they gave you when you chose a phone. You likely signed something saying you were aware of the cancellation fee, and there probably was a grace period of some kind. It AT&T truly offering you a completely accessible phone without the addition of Mobile Speak or TALKS? I know that they subsidize the purchase of these programs, but I believe AT&T is the only one that does. T-Mobile will be able to claim that you have the same options, but that they simply don't match AT&T's price. If you are thinking of going with the I Phone, there are lots of people who probably would like to get out of their contract to get it, blind or sighted, and that will water down your position some. The I Phone is nice, but you should be completely sure you want to switch to that phone before committing. There is a learning curve to using it and there are some limitations as to the availability of bluetooth devices and such. Also, because the I Phone is accessible does not mean that all applications for it are. My point is not to start an argument with you, but to highlight issues for which you need to be prepared if you work with T-Mobile. They might let you out just to avoid the hassle, but they are going to be very careful not to set a precedence allowing people to leave a contract because a nicer phone became available somewhere else. Best regards, Steve Jacobson On Mon, 14 Dec 2009 00:19:29 -0800 (PST), William ODonnell wrote: >This email is being sent on behalf of William O����"Donnell in care of Yvetta Scott, The below post is lengthy; however, it is in regard to T-Mobile and some customer service issues that she is having. > I have been a t-mobile customer since 2005. I am currently locked into a contract until 2011. My issue is the inaccessibility of both t-mobiles products and the insensitivity toward my visual impairment by the representatives from t-mobile. > I prefer a product that has both a screen-reader and a screen magnification program. However, screen magnification (ability to increase font to at least 14 PT) is absolutely necessary for me to use my phone affectively. > I use phones that have complete data functionality as this is my main source of internet use especially email exchange. Over the years, I have had phones such as the dash, Samsung slider, and most recently, a blackberry 8320. These phones that I have had provided the ability to increase the font to a suitable size; however, I ran in to many technical difficulties. These difficulties ranged from frequent system failures with the phones, as well as the phones rebooting themselves during calls or other important activities. > My problem with the screen magnification capabilities is as follows. My newest blackberry 9700 does not save the font changes to be applied on all the phones functions. In addition, when I am on the internet, and try to use the zoom-in function feature, the words become jumbled and unreadable. I proceeded to obtain a phone that met my needs. This is where the problems began with both the customer service representatives from T-mobile as well as the account specialty department. Over the past few months, I have had many conversations in an attempt at finding an accessible phone for my needs. Many times, I have been misinformed about t-mobiles products which turned out to be inaccessible. An example of this was the G1 and the touch. In a final attempt at finding an accessible phone, I visited the T-mobile store located at 735 6TH Avenue in New York City on Friday, December 11, 2009 at 4:00PM. The in-store representative was understanding of my >needs and spent an hour trying to find a phone for me. In his attempts, He contacted the customer care call center for some suggestions. After a few moments, a request was given to the representative for me to speak with the customer care agent. Although I can not recollect the agent����"s name, I do recall him saying that ����Sas the technology becomes newer, they are taking out the feature which enables customers to increase the font size. The call concluded with me realizing that I must cancel my service with this company. The in-store representative then showed me his personal HTC Touch Pro 2 which has the ability to increase the font size; however, the font can only be increased to an approximate size of 10PT. > I have done some research and found that AT&T is able to successfully meet my needs. I am ready to cancel my contract with T-mobile As a result of T-mobile�� ��"s inability to provide an accessible phone for me. This evening, I contacted T-Mobile to discuss canceling my contract. Once again, the representative tried to offer me several phones such as the G1 and My touch. In addition, she informed me that ����Sby law, T-mobile offers phones for the hearing impaired and the blind; however, these are simple phones that do not support data plans.����_ She proceeded to tell me that most of their visually impaired customers ����Sdon����"t use data plans.����_ She told me that I would have to pay a cancellation fee of $200.00. I asked to speak to a supervisor about this since I feel that I should not be subjected to pay this fee. She then told me that I should contact their legal department at the following address. T-mobile wireless: Legal department 12920 > South >East 38TH Street Bellevue Washington 98006-1350 >I would appreciate any help in this matter as I feel I should not be penalized for canceling a service that I can not use. I can be reached via email and help in this matter as I feel I should not be penalized for canceling a service that I can not use. I can be reached via email and telephone at the following. My contact email is yvtscott at gmail.com and my phone number is (917)407-5666. Thank you in advance, >Yvetta Scott > >_______________________________________________ >blindlaw mailing list >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40visi.com From mruniverse08 at gmail.com Tue Dec 15 14:42:41 2009 From: mruniverse08 at gmail.com (WB) Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2009 08:42:41 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] Blind Paralegal Looking for Work...Yet Again Message-ID: <021701ca7d94$dbdbb000$93931000$@com> Hi Folks! I hope everyone is doing well. I've placed some postings on here in months past asking for advice on how to find work as a blind paralegal. I've taken most of the suggestions I've received to no avail. I've been on interviews and through trial and error, figured that I would take my laptop to explain how the assistive technology works. I've taken the suggestions of how to set up a freelance business with no luck. Is anyone else having this problem? I could really use some tangible, effective help. I'm drowning here. Thanks for any help. Will From rthomas at rjtlawfirm.com Tue Dec 15 16:16:12 2009 From: rthomas at rjtlawfirm.com (Russell J. Thomas, Jr.) Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2009 08:16:12 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] Blind Paralegal Looking for Work...Yet Again In-Reply-To: <021701ca7d94$dbdbb000$93931000$@com> References: <021701ca7d94$dbdbb000$93931000$@com> Message-ID: <5F659D9DF4EF4908B611A10AA7FAAD78@russ> Blind or sighted--this is the worst job market for the legal profession in decades. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of WB Sent: Tuesday, December 15, 2009 6:43 AM To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: [blindlaw] Blind Paralegal Looking for Work...Yet Again Hi Folks! I hope everyone is doing well. I've placed some postings on here in months past asking for advice on how to find work as a blind paralegal. I've taken most of the suggestions I've received to no avail. I've been on interviews and through trial and error, figured that I would take my laptop to explain how the assistive technology works. I've taken the suggestions of how to set up a freelance business with no luck. Is anyone else having this problem? I could really use some tangible, effective help. I'm drowning here. Thanks for any help. Will _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rthomas%40rjtlawfi rm.com From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov Tue Dec 15 16:55:49 2009 From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel) Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2009 10:55:49 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] Dept. of Labor FW: Vacancy Announcement Message-ID: ________________________________ From: Banjo, Akinyemi - ODEP [mailto:banjo.akinyemi at dol.gov] Sent: Monday, December 14, 2009 4:21 PM Subject: Vacancy Announcement Dear Colleague, The Department of Labor, Office of the Solicitor (SOL), has an exciting job opportunity that we would like to share with your office in an effort to diversify our recruiting efforts. We would like for you to disseminate this information within your community of job seekers. If you have questions please feel free to contact: Ade'Leaka Gore, HR Specialist at 202.693.5420 and/or email gore.adeleaka at dol.gov Also, the attached is a flyer on Department of Labor's STEP Career Fair for students with disabilities. Thanks. <> Are you a current Federal employee, Veteran eligible to apply under the Veteran's Employment Opportunity Act of 1988 (VEOA), eligible family member under Executive Order 12721, or a military spouse eligible under Executive Order 13473 looking for a new and exciting job opportunity? Come join the Department of Labor - Office of the Solicitor, where Opportunities are open! The Office of the Solicitor's mission is to meet the legal service demands of the entire Department of Labor. As the Secretary of Labor and other Department officials seek to accomplish the Department's overall mission and to further specific priorities, the Office of the Solicitor (SOL) provides legal advice regarding how to achieve those goals. SOL ensures that the Nation's labor laws are forcefully and fairly applied to protect the Nation's workers. SOL is currently recruiting for a Lead Human Resources Specialist position (GS-201-13/14) and two Human Resources Specialists to make an impact in support of our mission. These positions are located in the Management and Administrative Legal Services Division (MALS), Human Resources Office. These positions are posted on USAJOBS; to view these jobs in its entirety, select one of the links provided below. Lead Human Resources Specialist (GS-201-13/14) http://jobview.usajobs.gov/GetJob.aspx?JobID=85049745&JobTitle=Lead+Human+Resources+Specialist&jbf574=DL*&FedEmp=Y&FedPub=Y&sort=rv%2c-dtex&vw=d&re=4&caller=basic.aspx&pg=2&AVSDM=2009-12-09+17%3a50%3a00 Human Resources Specialist (GS-201-12/13) http://jobview.usajobs.gov/GetJob.aspx?JobID=85069606&JobTitle=Human+Resources+Specialist&jbf574=DL*&FedEmp=Y&FedPub=Y&sort=rv%2c-dtex&vw=d&re=4&caller=basic.aspx&pg=2&AVSDM=2009-12-10+16%3a29%3a00 Human Resources Specialist (GS-201-11/12/13) http://jobview.usajobs.gov/GetJob.aspx?JobID=85071094&JobTitle=Human+Resources+Specialist&jbf574=DL*&FedEmp=Y&FedPub=Y&sort=rv%2c-dtex&vw=d&re=134&caller=basic.aspx&AVSDM=2009-12-10+17%3a26%3a00 NOTE: You must submit your application, along with your supporting documents, online via USAJOBS in order to be considered for any one of these positions. To be eligible for a VEOA appointment, a veteran must: * be a preference eligible OR veteran separated after 3 or more years of continuous active service performed under honorable conditions. Veterans who were released shortly before completing a 3-year tour are considered to be eligible. ("Active service" defined in title 37, United States Code, means active duty in the uniformed services and includes full-time training duty, annual training duty, full-time National Guard duty, and attendance, while in the active service, at a school designated as a service school by law or by the Secretary concerned.) ------------------------- Akinyemi Banjo U.S. Department of Labor Phone: 202-693-7919 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Dear Colleague - STEP Career Fair External.doc Type: application/msword Size: 49152 bytes Desc: Dear Colleague - STEP Career Fair External.doc URL: From cathrynisfinally at verizon.net Wed Dec 16 11:45:36 2009 From: cathrynisfinally at verizon.net (Cathryn Bonnette) Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 06:45:36 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Dept. of Labor FW: Vacancy Announcement In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <33DCE8F285C848B1927D01BE4B8AA609@14bd0130080a469> This does not seem to include Schedule A for persons with targeted disabilities - does it? -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Nightingale, Noel Sent: Tuesday, December 15, 2009 11:56 AM To: 'blindlaw at nfbnet.org' Subject: [blindlaw] Dept. of Labor FW: Vacancy Announcement ________________________________ From: Banjo, Akinyemi - ODEP [mailto:banjo.akinyemi at dol.gov] Sent: Monday, December 14, 2009 4:21 PM Subject: Vacancy Announcement Dear Colleague, The Department of Labor, Office of the Solicitor (SOL), has an exciting job opportunity that we would like to share with your office in an effort to diversify our recruiting efforts. We would like for you to disseminate this information within your community of job seekers. If you have questions please feel free to contact: Ade'Leaka Gore, HR Specialist at 202.693.5420 and/or email gore.adeleaka at dol.gov Also, the attached is a flyer on Department of Labor's STEP Career Fair for students with disabilities. Thanks. <> Are you a current Federal employee, Veteran eligible to apply under the Veteran's Employment Opportunity Act of 1988 (VEOA), eligible family member under Executive Order 12721, or a military spouse eligible under Executive Order 13473 looking for a new and exciting job opportunity? Come join the Department of Labor - Office of the Solicitor, where Opportunities are open! The Office of the Solicitor's mission is to meet the legal service demands of the entire Department of Labor. As the Secretary of Labor and other Department officials seek to accomplish the Department's overall mission and to further specific priorities, the Office of the Solicitor (SOL) provides legal advice regarding how to achieve those goals. SOL ensures that the Nation's labor laws are forcefully and fairly applied to protect the Nation's workers. SOL is currently recruiting for a Lead Human Resources Specialist position (GS-201-13/14) and two Human Resources Specialists to make an impact in support of our mission. These positions are located in the Management and Administrative Legal Services Division (MALS), Human Resources Office. These positions are posted on USAJOBS; to view these jobs in its entirety, select one of the links provided below. Lead Human Resources Specialist (GS-201-13/14) http://jobview.usajobs.gov/GetJob.aspx?JobID=85049745&JobTitle=Lead+Human+Re sources+Specialist&jbf574=DL*&FedEmp=Y&FedPub=Y&sort=rv%2c-dtex&vw=d&re=4&ca ller=basic.aspx&pg=2&AVSDM=2009-12-09+17%3a50%3a00 Human Resources Specialist (GS-201-12/13) http://jobview.usajobs.gov/GetJob.aspx?JobID=85069606&JobTitle=Human+Resourc es+Specialist&jbf574=DL*&FedEmp=Y&FedPub=Y&sort=rv%2c-dtex&vw=d&re=4&caller= basic.aspx&pg=2&AVSDM=2009-12-10+16%3a29%3a00 Human Resources Specialist (GS-201-11/12/13) http://jobview.usajobs.gov/GetJob.aspx?JobID=85071094&JobTitle=Human+Resourc es+Specialist&jbf574=DL*&FedEmp=Y&FedPub=Y&sort=rv%2c-dtex&vw=d&re=134&calle r=basic.aspx&AVSDM=2009-12-10+17%3a26%3a00 NOTE: You must submit your application, along with your supporting documents, online via USAJOBS in order to be considered for any one of these positions. To be eligible for a VEOA appointment, a veteran must: * be a preference eligible OR veteran separated after 3 or more years of continuous active service performed under honorable conditions. Veterans who were released shortly before completing a 3-year tour are considered to be eligible. ("Active service" defined in title 37, United States Code, means active duty in the uniformed services and includes full-time training duty, annual training duty, full-time National Guard duty, and attendance, while in the active service, at a school designated as a service school by law or by the Secretary concerned.) ------------------------- Akinyemi Banjo U.S. Department of Labor Phone: 202-693-7919 No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.427 / Virus Database: 270.14.105/2562 - Release Date: 12/15/09 07:52:00 From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov Wed Dec 16 19:33:09 2009 From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel) Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 13:33:09 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] FW: Attorney Vacancies at the U.S. Department of Justice Message-ID: ________________________________ From: jobs-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:jobs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Maurer, Patricia Sent: Tuesday, December 15, 2009 11:21 AM To: jobs at nfbnet.org Subject: [Jobs] FW: Attorney Vacancies at the U.S. Department of Justice ________________________________ From: Hunter, Sue [mailto:Sue.Hunter at usdoj.gov] Sent: Tuesday, December 15, 2009 2:18 PM To: nawl at nawl.org; ncai at ncai.org; nedy at wyjlaw.com; newmedia at ja.org; Neysas at dnfsb.gov; Maurer, Patricia; nijc at aol.com; nlove at opd.state.md.us; nmcconnell at jackscamp.com; noconnell at tabinc.org; noryrp at cox.net; nromulus at gmail.com; ntb at boglechang.com; nwpatton at law.stanford.edu; ocaaba at cox.net; omanager at lawyerscomm.org; palsd at hotmail.com; patel at fr.com; pchanster at yahoo.com; pchapman at koonz.com; pgrewal at daycasebeer.com; pkim at lordbissell.com; Maurer, Patricia; pmorrison at state.wv.us; poppy.johnston at unlv.edu Subject: FW: Attorney Vacancies at the U.S. Department of Justice To learn more about our attorneys and what they like most about working at DOJ, please visit our attorney profiles at, http://www.usdoj.gov/oarm/arm/profiles.htm, and the video clips of our attorneys and interns available at https://www.avuedigitalservices.com/ads/jobsatdojoarm/index.jsp We encourage you to share this email with interested colleagues and peers. If you no longer wish to receive these periodic email announcements, please respond to this email address and ask to be removed from our mailing list. Thank you. Current Department of Justice Attorney Vacancies * ASSISTANT UNITED STATES ATTORNEY UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE DISTRICT OF NEW JERSEY VACANCY ANNOUNCEMENT NUMBER 10-NJ-01 Our hiring process is open and continuous. To be considered for the current vacancies, applications must be received by December 21, 2009. Date posted: 12-14-2009 * BUREAU OF ALCOHOL TOBACCO FIREARMS AND EXPLOSIVES OFFICE OF THE CHIEF COUNSEL DIVISION COUNSEL, HOUSTON TX GS-905-15 Applications must be received by January 13, 2010 the closing date of this announcement. Date posted: 12-14-2009 * DEPUTY DIRECTOR, LEGAL RECRUITMENT AND OUTREACH OFFICE OF THE ATTORNEY RECRUITMENT AND MANAGEMENT U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE GS-15 This position will be open until filled, but applications must be received by January 22, 2010. Date posted: 12-11-2009 * ASSISTANT UNITED STATES ATTORNEY UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE NORTHERN DISTRICT OF OHIO VACANCY ANNOUNCEMENT NUMBER: NDOH-10-02 Applications must be received no later than January 11, 2010. Date posted: 12-09-2009 * ASSISTANT UNITED STATES ATTORNEY UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA NORFOLK OFFICE10-EDVA-02 Positions are open until filled, but resumes must be received by December 23, 2009. Date posted: 12-09-2009 * ASSISTANT UNITED STATES ATTORNEY UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA ALEXANDRIA OFFICE10-EDVA-01 Positions are open until filled, but resumes must be received by December 23, 2009. Date posted: 12-09-2009 * IMMIGRATION JUDGE EXECUTIVE OFFICE FOR IMMIGRATION REVIEW HONOLULU, HAWAII VACANCY ANNOUNCEMENT NUMBER: EOIR-10-0058 All applications must be received in the Human Resources Office by the close of business on December 29, 2009. Date posted: 12-09-2009 * MMIGRATION JUDGE EXECUTIVE OFFICE FOR IMMIGRATION REVIEW SAN FRANCISCO, CA VACANCY ANNOUNCEMENT NUMBER: EOIR-10-0057 All applications must be received in the Human Resources Office by the close of business on December 29, 2009. Date posted: 12-09-2009 * IMMIGRATION JUDGE EXECUTIVE OFFICE FOR IMMIGRATION REVIEW BATAVIA (BUFFALO SERVICE PROCESSING CENTER), NY VACANCY ANNOUNCEMENT NUMBER: EOIR-10-0056 All applications must be received in the Human Resources Office by the close of business on December 29, 2009. Date posted: 12-09-2009 * IMMIGRATION JUDGE EXECUTIVE OFFICE FOR IMMIGRATION REVIEW PORTLAND, OREGON VACANCY ANNOUNCEMENT NUMBER: EOIR-10-0055 All applications must be received in the Human Resources Office by the close of business on December 29, 2009. Date posted: 12-09-2009 * IMMIGRATION JUDGE EXECUTIVE OFFICE FOR IMMIGRATION REVIEW LOS ANGELES, CALIFORNIA VACANCY ANNOUNCEMENT NUMBER: EOIR-10-0054 All applications must be received in the Human Resources Office by the close of business on December 29, 2009. Date posted: 12-09-2009 * ASSISTANT UNITED STATES ATTORNEY UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE NORTHERN DISTRICT OF TEXAS DALLAS, TEXAS Hand-Delivered applications must be received by 5:00pm December 18, 2009. Mailed applications must be postmarked by December 18, 2009. Date posted: 12-04-2009 * U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE CRIMINAL DIVISION ASSET FORFEITURE AND MONEY LAUNDERING SECTION TRIAL ATTORNEY, GS-13/14/15 09-CRM-AFMLS-050 All applications must be received by December 10, 2009. Applications received after that date will not be considered. Date posted: 12-03-2009 * U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE CRIMINAL DIVISION APPELLATE SECTION DEPUTY CHIEF, GS-905-15 ANNOUNCEMENT #: 09-CRM-APP-049 All applications must be received by December 18, 2009. Applications received after that date will not be considered. Date posted: 12-03-2009 * IMMIGRATION JUDGE EXECUTIVE OFFICE FOR IMMIGRATION REVIEW HOUSTON, TX (SPC) VACANCY ANNOUNCEMENT NUMBER: EOIR-10-0049 All applications must be received in the Human Resources Office by the close of business on December 22, 2009. Date posted: 12-02-2009 * IMMIGRATION JUDGE EXECUTIVE OFFICE FOR IMMIGRATION REVIEW NEWARK, NJ VACANCY ANNOUNCEMENT NUMBER: EOIR-10-0048 All applications must be received in the Human Resources Office by the close of business on December 22, 2009. Date posted: 12-02-2009 * IMMIGRATION JUDGE EXECUTIVE OFFICE FOR IMMIGRATION REVIEW PHILADELPHIA, PA VACANCY ANNOUNCEMENT NUMBER: EOIR-10-0047 All applications must be received in the Human Resources Office by the close of business on December 22, 2009. Date posted: 12-02-2009 * IMMIGRATION JUDGE EXECUTIVE OFFICE FOR IMMIGRATION REVIEW HOUSTON, TX VACANCY ANNOUNCEMENT NUMBER: EOIR-10-0046 All applications must be received in the Human Resources Office by the close of business on December 22, 2009. Date posted: 12-02-2009 * IMMIGRATION JUDGE EXECUTIVE OFFICE FOR IMMIGRATION REVIEW CHICAGO, IL VACANCY ANNOUNCEMENT NUMBER: EOIR-10-0045 All applications must be received in the Human Resources Office by the close of business on December 22, 2009. Date posted: 12-02-2009 * IMMIGRATION JUDGE EXECUTIVE OFFICE FOR IMMIGRATION REVIEW NEW YORK, NY VACANCY ANNOUNCEMENT NUMBER: EOIR-10-0044 All applications must be received in the Human Resources Office by the close of business on December 22, 2009. Date posted: 12-02-2009 * IMMIGRATION JUDGE EXECUTIVE OFFICE FOR IMMIGRATION REVIEW DETROIT, MI VACANCY ANNOUNCEMENT NUMBER: EOIR-10-0043 All applications must be received in the Human Resources Office by the close of business on December 22, 2009. Date posted: 12-02-2009 * IMMIGRATION JUDGE EXECUTIVE OFFICE FOR IMMIGRATION REVIEW MIAMI, FL VACANCY ANNOUNCEMENT NUMBER: EOIR-10-0036 All applications must be received in the Human Resources Office by the close of business on December 22, 2009. Date posted: 12-02-2009 * ASSISTANT UNITED STATES ATTORNEY UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE DISTRICT OF MASSACHUSETTS Position is open until filled. Date posted: 12-02-2009 * SUPERVISORY GENERAL ATTORNEY EXECUTIVE OFFICE FOR IMMIGRATION REVIEW FALLS CHURCH, VA VACANCY ANNOUNCEMENT NUMBER: EOIR-10-0039 Applications received after December 24, 2009, will not be considered. Date posted: 12-01-2009 The purpose of this email is to advise potential interested persons of employment opportunities at the Department of Justice. The Department of Justice cannot control further dissemination and/or posting of this information. Such posting and/or dissemination is not an endorsement by the Department of the organization or group disseminating and/or posting the information. -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Jobs mailing list Jobs at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/jobs_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Jobs: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/jobs_nfbnet.org/noel.nightingale%40ed.gov From benkarpilow at gmail.com Wed Dec 16 22:35:44 2009 From: benkarpilow at gmail.com (Ben Karpilow) Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 14:35:44 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] Blind Paralegal Looking for Work...Yet Again References: <021701ca7d94$dbdbb000$93931000$@com> Message-ID: I'm a big fan of networking. If you know any lawyers socially, start with them. If you have friends or family in the area, ask them whether they know any lawyers, then contact those lawyers as a friend or relative of whoever it was that mentioned their name. This will create added pressure to give you the time of day since there's a personal connection involved. Then, keep contacting those lawyers, ask them who they know, who they can refer you to, etc. You may even want to consider doing some volunteer work so people can see the quality of your work without going out of pocket. Then, once they see your quality, and that you're capable of doing the job, they may feel more inclined to offer you steady, paying work. These are just suggestions, and I hope they help. Keep plugging away and hang in there. Sincerely, Ben Karpilow From: "WB" To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Sent: Tuesday, December 15, 2009 6:42 AM Subject: [blindlaw] Blind Paralegal Looking for Work...Yet Again > Hi Folks! I hope everyone is doing well. > > > > I've placed some postings on here in months past asking for advice on how > to > find work as a blind paralegal. I've taken most of the suggestions I've > received to no avail. > > > > I've been on interviews and through trial and error, figured that I would > take my laptop to explain how the assistive technology works. I've taken > the suggestions of how to set up a freelance business with no luck. > > > > Is anyone else having this problem? I could really use some tangible, > effective help. I'm drowning here. > > > > Thanks for any help. > > > > Will > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/benkarpilow%40gmail.com From mruniverse08 at gmail.com Wed Dec 16 22:37:20 2009 From: mruniverse08 at gmail.com (WB) Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 16:37:20 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] Blind Paralegal Looking for Work...Yet Again In-Reply-To: References: <021701ca7d94$dbdbb000$93931000$@com> Message-ID: <05ae01ca7ea0$5528e110$ff7aa330$@com> Hi Ben! Thanks so much for those suggestions. I've been plugging away at those quite a bit. Smile! I am part of a paralegal association and have contacted some attorneys and done some volunteer work at some of the legal clinics we have here. I keep running into the same problem...either there is not enough work to outsource or they do not outsource period. I'm still trudging along with this though. Hopefully something will come along soon. Will -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ben Karpilow Sent: Wednesday, December 16, 2009 4:36 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Blind Paralegal Looking for Work...Yet Again I'm a big fan of networking. If you know any lawyers socially, start with them. If you have friends or family in the area, ask them whether they know any lawyers, then contact those lawyers as a friend or relative of whoever it was that mentioned their name. This will create added pressure to give you the time of day since there's a personal connection involved. Then, keep contacting those lawyers, ask them who they know, who they can refer you to, etc. You may even want to consider doing some volunteer work so people can see the quality of your work without going out of pocket. Then, once they see your quality, and that you're capable of doing the job, they may feel more inclined to offer you steady, paying work. These are just suggestions, and I hope they help. Keep plugging away and hang in there. Sincerely, Ben Karpilow From: "WB" To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Sent: Tuesday, December 15, 2009 6:42 AM Subject: [blindlaw] Blind Paralegal Looking for Work...Yet Again > Hi Folks! I hope everyone is doing well. > > > > I've placed some postings on here in months past asking for advice on how > to > find work as a blind paralegal. I've taken most of the suggestions I've > received to no avail. > > > > I've been on interviews and through trial and error, figured that I would > take my laptop to explain how the assistive technology works. I've taken > the suggestions of how to set up a freelance business with no luck. > > > > Is anyone else having this problem? I could really use some tangible, > effective help. I'm drowning here. > > > > Thanks for any help. > > > > Will > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/benkarpilow%40gmai l.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniverse08%40gma il.com From dandrews at visi.com Thu Dec 17 02:56:32 2009 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 20:56:32 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] FW: A truly great statement by US delegation at WIPO SCCR Message-ID: >FYI: >Forwarded with permission. Kathie > >Below please find the U.S. Delegation's turnabout and embracing of >the proposed WIPO international treaty on copyright exceptions for >the blind, forwarded to me by Carrie Russell from the ALA Washington >Office of Information and Technology Policy. I'd like to think that >the comments from the various stakeholders recorded by LC helped >with the determination. Let's hope Western European nations follow suit. > > >Mike L. Marlin, Manager >California Braille and Talking Book Library >Sacramento, CA >mmarlin at library.ca.gov >Phone: (916) 651-0812 > >-----Original Message----- >From: Carrie Russell [mailto:crussell at alawash.org] >Sent: Tuesday, December 15, 2009 8:32 AM >To: Susan Hornung; Michael.york at dcr.nh.gov; Marlin. Mike; Jessica M. >Brodey; Kendall Wiggin >Subject: A truly great statement by US delegation at WIPO SCCR > >This is very great news. The US delegation under Obama appears to >understand the importance of copyright limitations and exceptions >and access to information for the visually impaired. We should all >be celebrating! > > >http://www.wo.ala.org/districtdispatch/?p=4144 > >World Intellectual Property Organization > Standing Committee on Copyright and Related Rights (SCCR) > Nineteenth Session > December 14-18, 2009 > > United States of America > > Statement on Copyright Exceptions and Limitations for > Persons with Print Disabilities > > As Delivered > > December, 2009 > > Geneva, Switzerland > > > > >Thank you, Mr. Chairman. > > >The United States is proud to have a series of specific exceptions >and limitations in our copyright law, including for education, >libraries, and persons with print disabilities. > > >The law of the United States has these exceptions because we believe >access to information, cultural expression, and ideas is essential >and we know that governments have a role to play in facilitating >that access and reducing barriers to information, education and full >participation in a democratic society. So while the United States >believes profoundly, in the words of our Supreme Court, that >copyright law is "the engine of free expression,"1we are also >committed to policies that ensure everyone has a chance to get the >information and education they need and to live independently as >full citizens in their communities. > > >Because education and civic engagement can be severely limited when >information is not available in accessible formats, under US >copyright law qualified non-profit organizations and government >agencies are free to reproduce and distribute published literary >works under copyright in specialized formats for use by blind >persons or persons with other print disabilities. We acknowledge >that more is needed, but we are proud of what this copyright >exception has achieved. One of the main providers of materials under >this exception, the National Library Service, distributes two (2) >million Braille and audiobook copies of works to nearly 800,000 >users each year. And we have had this provision in our law since 1996. > > >Of course, the United States is not alone in serving those with >print disabilities through carefully crafted limitations and >exceptions in copyright law. As we all know, over 50 countries have >specific statutory exceptions addressed to the needs of the >visually-impaired and persons with print disabilities. Other >countries like India are in the midst of thoughtful deliberations on >their own national exceptions. > > >So the United States is pleased that WIPO is addressing this issue. >We believe that WIPO can move forward on this issue meaningfully and seriously. > > >In that respect, the United States wants to first acknowledge the >WIPO Study on Copyright Limitations and Exceptions for the Visually >Impaired, prepared by Ms. Judith Sullivan, and presented to the >Standing Committee in 2006.2 This Study represents the kind of >thorough comparative work we must always do as a foundation for the >development of new norms in international copyright law. We also >recognizes the on-going work of the WIPO Stakeholders' Platform, >which continues to explore in detail how the needs of persons with >print disabilities can be better addressed through trusted >intermediaries, new technologies, better formats, and improved "best >practices" in the publishing industry. > > >The United States also wants to acknowledge and express our >appreciation for the draft treaty language prepared by the World >Blind Union and submitted as a formal proposal at the last session >of the Standing Committee by our colleagues from Brazil, Ecuador, >and Paraguay.3 We want to recognize the tremendous work on that >draft that was done by the World Blind Union, the International >Federation of Library Associations, the DAISY Consortium, and >several other groups and individuals. The WBU treaty proposal will >help the Standing Committee focus on this problem and find the right >means of addressing access to materials for people with print >disabilities through well-crafted exceptions to copyright protection >that can become an integral part of the international copyright system. > > >As we explained in the last meeting of the Standing Committee, the >United States has been engaged in a process of understanding the >problems that confront persons with print disabilities in our own >country. This has been a joint effort of the U.S. Patent and >Trademark Office and the U.S. Copyright Office with leadership from >the White House. This process included a Notice of Inquiry in March >2009 that generated numerous public responses; a public roundtable >in May with many stakeholder representatives presenting different >perspectives on making copyrighted works accessible to persons with >print disabilities; a further public comment period in October and >December that included specific questions on the WBU treaty >proposal; and, just last week, an informal White House meeting of >representatives from our country's leading organizations for the >blind and visually-impaired, our library community, and our >copyright industries. > > >Those of us working on this issue in the U.S. Government believe >that we are genuinely studentsof this problem; we are still in the >process of learning. But we are committed to doing our homework and >doing it well. > > >Having said that we are still learning and studying, the United >States comes to this meeting with greater clarity and conviction in >our views on how the international copyright community should >proceed in addressing the needs of those with print disabilities. > > > Our commitment to reaching an international consensus > > on copyright exceptions for persons with print disabilities > > >First, the United States believes that the time has come for WIPO >Members to work toward some form of international consensus on >basic, necessary limitations and exceptions in copyright law for >persons with print disabilities. This international consensus could >take multiple forms, including a model law endorsed by the SCCR, a >detailed Joint Recommendation to be adopted by the WIPO General >Assemblies, and/or a multilateral treaty. The United States is open >to discussing and exploring all these options. > >The United States believes that the initial most productive course >of action may be a work program that begins with a series of >serious, focused consultations aimed at producing a >carefully-crafted Joint Recommendation of the Berne Assembly and the >WIPO General Assembly. We further believe this initial Joint >Recommendation could be a step toward the development of a treaty >establishing basic copyright limitations and exceptions for persons >with print disabilities. > > > The first goal of international consensus in this area > > >In our consultations and review it has become clear to us that the >most pressing problem - the one identified repeatedly by experts - >is the cross-border distribution of special format materials made >for persons with print disabilities, whether these special format >materials are made under copyright exceptions in national law or >special licensing arrangements. Therefore, the United States >believes that our first goal should be to reach international >consensus on the free exportation and importation of special format >materials for persons with print disabilities in all countries. > > >We are confident that this body, the Berne Assembly, and the WIPO >General Assembly have the expertise, wisdom, and resolve to find a >suitable solution to this problem. We are prepared to work with >other countries to explore creative solutions to this problem, >including, but not limited to, [a] the establishment of a >properly-limited international rule of exhaustion in relation to >special format copies made under existing national law exceptions >for persons with print disabilities and/or [b] an international >legal norm that trusted intermediaries and non-profit organizations >working for persons with print disabilities must be able to exchange >special format copies without fear that copyright law bars such activities. > > >We believe that a solution to the problem of cross-border >distribution of special format materials, properly delineated to >prevent abuses,would solve the foremost problems identified by the >print disability and visually-impaired communities. > > > Further international consensus on basic exceptions for print > disabilities > > >The United States is also prepared to participate in a WIPO work >program to establish further international consensus on specific >exceptions and limitations for persons with print disabilities that >should be part of national copyright laws. > > >As a practical matter, we believe that this project will take longer >than finding common ground on the cross-border distribution of >special format copies made under existing national exceptions. >First, any such consensus should acknowledge the diversity of >established national laws in this area and the diversity of >successful experiences with copyright exceptions for persons with >print disabilities that WIPO Members have had. Second, any such >consensus should ensure that WIPO Members retain the flexibility to >craft copyright exceptions and limitations to meet changing social, >economic, and technological conditions that affect the print >disability community. Third, the specific exceptions and limitations >that emerge from such a process should acknowledge - as many in the >visually impaired and print disability communities have told us >-- that market practices can often help to solve problems of access >to materials and that mandatory exceptions are most needed to >address market failures. Finally, consensus on basic copyright >exceptions for the print disability communities can and should be >reached within the framework of the Berne acquis; Berne Article >9(2); and the corresponding provisions of TRIPS, the WCT, and the WPPT. > > > A balanced system of international copyright law > > >We recognize that some in the international copyright community >believe that any international consensus on substantive limitations >and exceptions to copyright law would weaken international copyright >law. The United States does not share that point of view. The United >States is committed to both better exceptions in copyright law and >better enforcement of copyright law. Indeed, as we work with >countries to establish consensus on proper, basic exceptions within >copyright law, we will ask countries to work with us to improve the >enforcement of copyright. This is part and parcel of a balanced >international system of intellectual property. > > >Thank you. > > ># # # > > >1 Harper & Row, Publishers. v. Nation Enterprises., 471 U.S. 539, 558 >(1985) ("it should not be forgotten that the Framers intended >copyright itself to be the engine of free expression.") 2 >http://www.wipo.int/meetings/en/doc_details.jsp?doc_id=75696 >3 http://www.wipo.int/meetings/en/doc_details.jsp?doc_id=122732 > > >_______________________________________________ >kei-staff mailing list >kei-staff at lists.keionline.org >http://lists.keionline.org/mailman/listinfo/kei-staff_lists.keionline.or >g > > > > > > >-- >James Love, Director, Knowledge Ecology International >http://www.keionline.org | http://www.twitter.com/jamie_love >Wk: +1.202.332.2670 | US Mobile +1.202.361.3040 | Geneva Mobile >+41.76.413.6584 > >_______________________________________________ >LawfulUse mailing list >LawfulUse at lists.publicknowledge.org >http://lists.publicknowledge.org/mailman/listinfo/lawfuluse > >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >The ASCLA Membership List is the official electronic discussion list >of the Association of Specialized and Cooperative Library Agencies, >a division of the American Library Association. The list's address >is ASCLA-l at ala.org. When posting messages to this discussion list, >please be sure they are sent from the e-mail address recorded in >your member profile. Messages intended for distribution to everyone >on the discussion list should be sent to ASCLA-l at ala.org. When >responding to an individual please reply to that individual in order >to reduce unnecessary e-mail traffic for others on the discussion list. > >PLEASE NOTE: When sending commands to the list--to unsubscribe, for >instance--you need to use the address of the server, not the list. >The server address is sympa at ala.org. Please read the instructions >below carefully, with this note in mind. > >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >LIST OWNER(s) >If you have questions or problems, contact the discussion list owner >at dvicha at ala.org. > >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >TO MANAGE YOUR ASCLA LIST SUBSCRIPTION > >Please go to http://lists.ala.org and signup to manage your subscription. >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >UNSUBSCRIBING > >Should you wish to unsubscribe from this list, simply send a message >to sympa at ala.org. Include the "unsubscribe" command in the body of >the message, as follows: > >unsubscribe ASCLA-l >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >Version: 8.5.427 / Virus Database: 270.14.110/2568 - Release Date: >12/16/09 08:02:00 > > >__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus >signature database 4694 (20091216) __________ > >The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > >http://www.eset.com From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Thu Dec 17 15:01:31 2009 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2009 07:01:31 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] Blind Paralegal Looking for Work...Yet Again In-Reply-To: References: <021701ca7d94$dbdbb000$93931000$@com> Message-ID: This strategy definitely works. As a freelancer I have used it successfully. It sometimes takes time especially with the current economic conditions where operating and trial costs are a significant factor. It sometimes takes several contacts reminding the attorney that you are available and willing to work. Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal 1237 P Street Fresno ca 93721 559-266-9237 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ben Karpilow" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Wednesday, December 16, 2009 2:35 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Blind Paralegal Looking for Work...Yet Again > I'm a big fan of networking. If you know any lawyers socially, start with > them. If you have friends or family in the area, ask them whether they > know any lawyers, then contact those lawyers as a friend or relative of > whoever it was that mentioned their name. This will create added pressure > to give you the time of day since there's a personal connection involved. > Then, keep contacting those lawyers, ask them who they know, who they can > refer you to, etc. You may even want to consider doing some volunteer work > so people can see the quality of your work without going out of pocket. > Then, once they see your quality, and that you're capable of doing the > job, they may feel more inclined to offer you steady, paying work. These > are just suggestions, and I hope they help. Keep plugging away and hang > in there. Sincerely, > > Ben Karpilow > From: "WB" > To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" > Sent: Tuesday, December 15, 2009 6:42 AM > Subject: [blindlaw] Blind Paralegal Looking for Work...Yet Again > > >> Hi Folks! I hope everyone is doing well. >> >> >> >> I've placed some postings on here in months past asking for advice on how >> to >> find work as a blind paralegal. I've taken most of the suggestions I've >> received to no avail. >> >> >> >> I've been on interviews and through trial and error, figured that I would >> take my laptop to explain how the assistive technology works. I've taken >> the suggestions of how to set up a freelance business with no luck. >> >> >> >> Is anyone else having this problem? I could really use some tangible, >> effective help. I'm drowning here. >> >> >> >> Thanks for any help. >> >> >> >> Will >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/benkarpilow%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Thu Dec 17 15:04:03 2009 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2009 07:04:03 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] Blind Paralegal Looking for Work...Yet Again In-Reply-To: <05ae01ca7ea0$5528e110$ff7aa330$@com> References: <021701ca7d94$dbdbb000$93931000$@com> <05ae01ca7ea0$5528e110$ff7aa330$@com> Message-ID: <2CF8339CC0D7418992F168B1058DF5BB@spike> Focus on solo practitioners in fields of law that you have expertise or interest in. I get my referrals predominantly from solo practitioners that do not require the services of a paralegal on a regular basis. Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal 1237 P Street Fresno ca 93721 559-266-9237 ----- Original Message ----- From: "WB" To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Sent: Wednesday, December 16, 2009 2:37 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Blind Paralegal Looking for Work...Yet Again > Hi Ben! > > Thanks so much for those suggestions. I've been plugging away at those > quite a bit. Smile! > > I am part of a paralegal association and have contacted some attorneys and > done some volunteer work at some of the legal clinics we have here. > > I keep running into the same problem...either there is not enough work to > outsource or they do not outsource period. > > I'm still trudging along with this though. Hopefully something will come > along soon. > > Will > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of Ben Karpilow > Sent: Wednesday, December 16, 2009 4:36 PM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Blind Paralegal Looking for Work...Yet Again > > I'm a big fan of networking. If you know any lawyers socially, start with > them. If you have friends or family in the area, ask them whether they > know > any lawyers, then contact those lawyers as a friend or relative of whoever > it was that mentioned their name. This will create added pressure to give > you the time of day since there's a personal connection involved. Then, > keep > > contacting those lawyers, ask them who they know, who they can refer you > to, > > etc. You may even want to consider doing some volunteer work so people can > see the quality of your work without going out of pocket. Then, once they > see your quality, and that you're capable of doing the job, they may feel > more inclined to offer you steady, paying work. These are just > suggestions, > and I hope they help. Keep plugging away and hang in there. Sincerely, > > Ben Karpilow > From: "WB" > To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" > Sent: Tuesday, December 15, 2009 6:42 AM > Subject: [blindlaw] Blind Paralegal Looking for Work...Yet Again > > >> Hi Folks! I hope everyone is doing well. >> >> >> >> I've placed some postings on here in months past asking for advice on how >> to >> find work as a blind paralegal. I've taken most of the suggestions I've >> received to no avail. >> >> >> >> I've been on interviews and through trial and error, figured that I would >> take my laptop to explain how the assistive technology works. I've taken >> the suggestions of how to set up a freelance business with no luck. >> >> >> >> Is anyone else having this problem? I could really use some tangible, >> effective help. I'm drowning here. >> >> >> >> Thanks for any help. >> >> >> >> Will >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/benkarpilow%40gmai > l.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniverse08%40gma > il.com > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net From cathrynisfinally at verizon.net Fri Dec 18 09:05:16 2009 From: cathrynisfinally at verizon.net (Cathryn Bonnette) Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2009 04:05:16 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] DVA Dispute Resolution Program Manager Breaches Confidentiality Message-ID: <63BAD34531454447AD59B310A6BA2AB2@14bd0130080a469> All: A sum of events follows in my federal employment. I will be very appreciative of ideas you may wish to offer. Thanks in advance for your time. I've been an Alternative Dispute Resolution, ADR, Specialist at the Department of Veterans Affairs, DVA for 3 years next March. I'm experiencing ongoing retaliation in a hostile environment, and trying to tolerate it to remain employed and achieve career status. The situation is now intolerable I was recruited into a Schedule A, (disability related hiring authority), and moved from California to Washington DC 3/07. I was given opportunities above my grade level, GS-11, within the first 6 months, completed assignments successfully and promoted to GS-12 in 3/08. In 5/08 a manager was promoted to become my direct supervisor. Days before her promotion was finalized, I asked my current boss, the Deputy Assistant Secretary, DAS for a transfer since I had experienced this manager's verbal abuse and discriminatory treatment from the start of the application process. The DAS assured me the manager would not bother me but denied my request. In the next rating period after my promotion, the manager rated me as "needs improvement'". In 12/08 the oral threats of termination at any time began coming from the manager with no guidance, counseling, etc. and I filed an EEO Complaint in 1/09. The manager terminated me in 2/09. I appealed to the Secretary of VA, and his Chief of Staff, John Gingrage, stated "We will make this right." The termination was reversed, but I was placed back in the same office under the same manager. I was given to understand it was a "take it or leave it" proposition. I resumed work but the same pattern continued with the set up for failure becoming more blatant. I hired Gebhardt and Assoc. to represent me in the EEO process. As my complaint moved to the formal stage, the manager placed me on a Plan to Improve Performance, PIP in 7/09, required me to change software from what I had used, and team members continued to use, increased my work load and added unfamiliar assignments . The manager also designated an incompetent reader/sighted assistance and has ignored all my communications of ineffective reasonable accommodation. 11/09 she reported I failed the PIP and proposed my removal. We are preparing a response given a deadline of 12/24/09. Yesterday as the manager and I discussed my assignments and I asked for clarification on a change to my performance standard she made lest week that ensures my failure, the ombudsman walked into the meeting and I agreed to spend 15 minutes articulating the issue to him. At that point the manager said, "Well, I don't think I'm speaking out of turn, but- "and proceeded to disclose that I was on a PIP, had failed the PIP, and she had proposed my removal. I have never discussed my personnel history with team members or other employees. I confronted the manager with the breach of my confidential records and observed as she rationalized her conduct stating that the ombudsman is acting to resolve a dispute, and the information was relevant to him- as though discussion of any performance question with this manager must include the ombudsman and my agreement to meet with him a few minutes gave the manager license to disclose my confidential record. I was unable to concentrate on work due to my own experience of shock and the manager's continued oral harassment as she repeatedly entered my office through the remainder of the day. I guess the only way to get away from her is to take sick leave today and Monday to determine next steps. I am very close to achieving career status- March 5 2010. I believe this manager intends to ensure I never accomplish it, and that her determination to be rid of me is of utmost importance to her. Meanwhile it is difficult for me to decide a best course to take at present. Again, thanks for listening. Cathryn Bonnette (cathrynisfinally at verizon.net) From DFrye at nfb.org Fri Dec 18 13:57:56 2009 From: DFrye at nfb.org (Frye, Dan) Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2009 08:57:56 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] DVA Dispute Resolution Program Manager BreachesConfidentiality In-Reply-To: <63BAD34531454447AD59B310A6BA2AB2@14bd0130080a469> Message-ID: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6B01C89BD2@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local> Cathryn: During my years as a Federal employee (I'm no longer serving in this capacity), I served as a union representative. Consequently, I have a variety of experiences that I can share with you that could prove helpful in resolving your situation. Give me a call or write privately (my contact details are below) if you wish to communicate. In the interim, follow your current course of action. Get your appeal filed, continue doing your job, document your efforts at resolution, and minimize your verbal, undocumented communication with your manager to instances of absolute necessity and preferably limit conversation with her to circumstances in the presence of reliable others. Stay strong while you're fighting the system because you're always at a disadvantage if somebody with authority over you has decided to target your performance. You either have to make your way through the process of acquitting yourself or decide to leave. If you've chosen to try and stay, you seem to be doing what you must. Finally, begin discretely looking for other employment opportunities so that you have options if matters become intolerable or a decision on the merits of your EEO and other complaints are not favorable. I know nothing about the substantive merits of your case, but these are my superficial first thoughts. Write or call if You'd like to discuss this further. Dan Frye -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Cathryn Bonnette Sent: Friday, December 18, 2009 4:05 AM To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: [blindlaw] DVA Dispute Resolution Program Manager BreachesConfidentiality All: A sum of events follows in my federal employment. I will be very appreciative of ideas you may wish to offer. Thanks in advance for your time. I've been an Alternative Dispute Resolution, ADR, Specialist at the Department of Veterans Affairs, DVA for 3 years next March. I'm experiencing ongoing retaliation in a hostile environment, and trying to tolerate it to remain employed and achieve career status. The situation is now intolerable I was recruited into a Schedule A, (disability related hiring authority), and moved from California to Washington DC 3/07. I was given opportunities above my grade level, GS-11, within the first 6 months, completed assignments successfully and promoted to GS-12 in 3/08. In 5/08 a manager was promoted to become my direct supervisor. Days before her promotion was finalized, I asked my current boss, the Deputy Assistant Secretary, DAS for a transfer since I had experienced this manager's verbal abuse and discriminatory treatment from the start of the application process. The DAS assured me the manager would not bother me but denied my request. In the next rating period after my promotion, the manager rated me as "needs improvement'". In 12/08 the oral threats of termination at any time began coming from the manager with no guidance, counseling, etc. and I filed an EEO Complaint in 1/09. The manager terminated me in 2/09. I appealed to the Secretary of VA, and his Chief of Staff, John Gingrage, stated "We will make this right." The termination was reversed, but I was placed back in the same office under the same manager. I was given to understand it was a "take it or leave it" proposition. I resumed work but the same pattern continued with the set up for failure becoming more blatant. I hired Gebhardt and Assoc. to represent me in the EEO process. As my complaint moved to the formal stage, the manager placed me on a Plan to Improve Performance, PIP in 7/09, required me to change software from what I had used, and team members continued to use, increased my work load and added unfamiliar assignments . The manager also designated an incompetent reader/sighted assistance and has ignored all my communications of ineffective reasonable accommodation. 11/09 she reported I failed the PIP and proposed my removal. We are preparing a response given a deadline of 12/24/09. Yesterday as the manager and I discussed my assignments and I asked for clarification on a change to my performance standard she made lest week that ensures my failure, the ombudsman walked into the meeting and I agreed to spend 15 minutes articulating the issue to him. At that point the manager said, "Well, I don't think I'm speaking out of turn, but- "and proceeded to disclose that I was on a PIP, had failed the PIP, and she had proposed my removal. I have never discussed my personnel history with team members or other employees. I confronted the manager with the breach of my confidential records and observed as she rationalized her conduct stating that the ombudsman is acting to resolve a dispute, and the information was relevant to him- as though discussion of any performance question with this manager must include the ombudsman and my agreement to meet with him a few minutes gave the manager license to disclose my confidential record. I was unable to concentrate on work due to my own experience of shock and the manager's continued oral harassment as she repeatedly entered my office through the remainder of the day. I guess the only way to get away from her is to take sick leave today and Monday to determine next steps. I am very close to achieving career status- March 5 2010. I believe this manager intends to ensure I never accomplish it, and that her determination to be rid of me is of utmost importance to her. Meanwhile it is difficult for me to decide a best course to take at present. Again, thanks for listening. Cathryn Bonnette (cathrynisfinally at verizon.net) _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dfrye%40nfb.or g From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov Fri Dec 18 16:23:46 2009 From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel) Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2009 10:23:46 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] FW: Nominate a Talented Lawyer with a Disability at Your Firm for ABA Lawyer Spotlight Message-ID: ________________________________ From: ABA Commission on Mental and Physical Disability Law [mailto:cmpdl at abanet.org] Sent: Friday, December 18, 2009 3:55 AM To: Nightingale, Noel Subject: Nominate a Talented Lawyer with a Disability at Your Firm for ABA Lawyer Spotlight If you cannot view this e-mail, please visit: http://www.abanet.org/disability/spotlight/ad2.html. Nominate a talented lawyer with a disability for the ABA LAWYER SPOTLIGHT Chosen candidates, along with their affiliated employers, will appear on our website! [http://www.abanet.org/disability/images/logo.gif] Each month, the American Bar Association Commission on Mental and Physical Disability Law highlights an attorney with a mental, physical, or sensory disability who has demonstrated great legal skill and talent. These individuals are role models and leaders within the legal community. If you know someone who should be given the Spotlight, please fill out this nomination form. Self-nominations are allowed. Past recipients include: Claudia L. Gordon (January 2009): As a senior policy advisor for the Department of Homeland Security (DHS), Office for Civil Rights and Civil Liberties, Ms. Gordon provides advice and technical assistance to the leadership and components of DHS that are geared towards implementation and enforcement of disability civil rights laws. Doug Heir (November 2008): A world-class athlete and gold-medal paralympian, Mr. Heir draws on his knowledge and experience from dealing with his disability, as well as his legal training, as he travels the world to deliver motivational speeches. Isaac J. Lidsky (September 2008): In addition to clerking for the U.S. Supreme Court, Mr. Lidsky is founder, chairman, and president of Hope for Vision, a nonprofit that helps raise awareness and funding for treatments and cures for blinding diseases. Andrew J. Imparato (April 2008): As president and CEO of the American Association of People with Disabilities (AAPD), Mr. Imparato advances a cause he cares passionately about while also mitigating the effects of his disability. SIGN OUR PLEDGE FOR CHANGE! The Commission is promoting "Disability Diversity in the Legal Profession: A Pledge for Change," a one-page pledge for legal employers to sign. ________________________________ Your e-mail address will only be used within the ABA and its entities. We do not sell or rent e-mail addresses to anyone outside the ABA. Update your profile | Unsubscribe | Privacy Policy American Bar Association | 321 N Clark | Chicago, IL 60654 | 1-800-285-2221 From cathrynisfinally at verizon.net Fri Dec 18 20:50:04 2009 From: cathrynisfinally at verizon.net (Cathryn Bonnette) Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2009 15:50:04 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] DVA Dispute Resolution Program ManagerBreachesConfidentiality In-Reply-To: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6B01C89BD2@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local> References: <63BAD34531454447AD59B310A6BA2AB2@14bd0130080a469> <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6B01C89BD2@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local> Message-ID: Dan: Thanks for responding. I found your e-mail, but not a phone #. If you are open to discussing- my # is 703-553-0477. Interested to hear your input. Cathryn -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Frye, Dan Sent: Friday, December 18, 2009 8:58 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] DVA Dispute Resolution Program ManagerBreachesConfidentiality Cathryn: During my years as a Federal employee (I'm no longer serving in this capacity), I served as a union representative. Consequently, I have a variety of experiences that I can share with you that could prove helpful in resolving your situation. Give me a call or write privately (my contact details are below) if you wish to communicate. In the interim, follow your current course of action. Get your appeal filed, continue doing your job, document your efforts at resolution, and minimize your verbal, undocumented communication with your manager to instances of absolute necessity and preferably limit conversation with her to circumstances in the presence of reliable others. Stay strong while you're fighting the system because you're always at a disadvantage if somebody with authority over you has decided to target your performance. You either have to make your way through the process of acquitting yourself or decide to leave. If you've chosen to try and stay, you seem to be doing what you must. Finally, begin discretely looking for other employment opportunities so that you have options if matters become intolerable or a decision on the merits of your EEO and other complaints are not favorable. I know nothing about the substantive merits of your case, but these are my superficial first thoughts. Write or call if You'd like to discuss this further. Dan Frye -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Cathryn Bonnette Sent: Friday, December 18, 2009 4:05 AM To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: [blindlaw] DVA Dispute Resolution Program Manager BreachesConfidentiality All: A sum of events follows in my federal employment. I will be very appreciative of ideas you may wish to offer. Thanks in advance for your time. I've been an Alternative Dispute Resolution, ADR, Specialist at the Department of Veterans Affairs, DVA for 3 years next March. I'm experiencing ongoing retaliation in a hostile environment, and trying to tolerate it to remain employed and achieve career status. The situation is now intolerable I was recruited into a Schedule A, (disability related hiring authority), and moved from California to Washington DC 3/07. I was given opportunities above my grade level, GS-11, within the first 6 months, completed assignments successfully and promoted to GS-12 in 3/08. In 5/08 a manager was promoted to become my direct supervisor. Days before her promotion was finalized, I asked my current boss, the Deputy Assistant Secretary, DAS for a transfer since I had experienced this manager's verbal abuse and discriminatory treatment from the start of the application process. The DAS assured me the manager would not bother me but denied my request. In the next rating period after my promotion, the manager rated me as "needs improvement'". In 12/08 the oral threats of termination at any time began coming from the manager with no guidance, counseling, etc. and I filed an EEO Complaint in 1/09. The manager terminated me in 2/09. I appealed to the Secretary of VA, and his Chief of Staff, John Gingrage, stated "We will make this right." The termination was reversed, but I was placed back in the same office under the same manager. I was given to understand it was a "take it or leave it" proposition. I resumed work but the same pattern continued with the set up for failure becoming more blatant. I hired Gebhardt and Assoc. to represent me in the EEO process. As my complaint moved to the formal stage, the manager placed me on a Plan to Improve Performance, PIP in 7/09, required me to change software from what I had used, and team members continued to use, increased my work load and added unfamiliar assignments . The manager also designated an incompetent reader/sighted assistance and has ignored all my communications of ineffective reasonable accommodation. 11/09 she reported I failed the PIP and proposed my removal. We are preparing a response given a deadline of 12/24/09. Yesterday as the manager and I discussed my assignments and I asked for clarification on a change to my performance standard she made lest week that ensures my failure, the ombudsman walked into the meeting and I agreed to spend 15 minutes articulating the issue to him. At that point the manager said, "Well, I don't think I'm speaking out of turn, but- "and proceeded to disclose that I was on a PIP, had failed the PIP, and she had proposed my removal. I have never discussed my personnel history with team members or other employees. I confronted the manager with the breach of my confidential records and observed as she rationalized her conduct stating that the ombudsman is acting to resolve a dispute, and the information was relevant to him- as though discussion of any performance question with this manager must include the ombudsman and my agreement to meet with him a few minutes gave the manager license to disclose my confidential record. I was unable to concentrate on work due to my own experience of shock and the manager's continued oral harassment as she repeatedly entered my office through the remainder of the day. I guess the only way to get away from her is to take sick leave today and Monday to determine next steps. I am very close to achieving career status- March 5 2010. I believe this manager intends to ensure I never accomplish it, and that her determination to be rid of me is of utmost importance to her. Meanwhile it is difficult for me to decide a best course to take at present. Again, thanks for listening. Cathryn Bonnette (cathrynisfinally at verizon.net) _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dfrye%40nfb.or g _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cathrynisfinally%4 0verizon.net No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.427 / Virus Database: 270.14.105/2562 - Release Date: 12/18/09 07:35:00 From dfrye at nfb.org Sat Dec 19 02:27:27 2009 From: dfrye at nfb.org (Dan Frye) Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2009 21:27:27 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] DVA Dispute Resolution ProgramManagerBreachesConfidentiality Message-ID: Kathryn: My contact details are below. Please call over the weekend. Reaching me on my mobile will be easiest, but my home number is also (410) 243-1818. I have a chapter meeting in the morning, but I will be otherwise free. Daniel B. Frye Office: (410) 659-9314, Ext 2208 Mobile: (410) 241-7006 Note: This message has been issued remotely from the BrailleNote. > ----- Original Message ----- >From: "Cathryn Bonnette" To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Date sent: Fri, 18 Dec 2009 15:50:04 -0500 >Subject: Re: [blindlaw] DVA Dispute Resolution ProgramManagerBreachesConfidentiality >Dan: >Thanks for responding. I found your e-mail, but not a phone #. If you are >open to discussing- my # is 703-553-0477. Interested to hear your input. >Cathryn >-----Original Message----- >From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >Behalf Of Frye, Dan >Sent: Friday, December 18, 2009 8:58 AM >To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >Subject: Re: [blindlaw] DVA Dispute Resolution Program >ManagerBreachesConfidentiality >Cathryn: >During my years as a Federal employee (I'm no longer serving in this >capacity), I served as a union representative. Consequently, I have a >variety of experiences that I can share with you that could prove >helpful in resolving your situation. Give me a call or write privately >(my contact details are below) if you wish to communicate. In the >interim, follow your current course of action. Get your appeal filed, >continue doing your job, document your efforts at resolution, and >minimize your verbal, undocumented communication with your manager to >instances of absolute necessity and preferably limit conversation with >her to circumstances in the presence of reliable others. Stay strong >while you're fighting the system because you're always at a disadvantage >if somebody with authority over you has decided to target your >performance. You either have to make your way through the process of >acquitting yourself or decide to leave. If you've chosen to try and >stay, you seem to be doing what you must. Finally, begin discretely >looking for other employment opportunities so that you have options if >matters become intolerable or a decision on the merits of your EEO and >other complaints are not favorable. I know nothing about the substantive >merits of your case, but these are my superficial first thoughts. Write >or call if You'd like to discuss this further. >Dan Frye >-----Original Message----- >From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >On Behalf Of Cathryn Bonnette >Sent: Friday, December 18, 2009 4:05 AM >To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' >Subject: [blindlaw] DVA Dispute Resolution Program Manager >BreachesConfidentiality >All: >A sum of events follows in my federal employment. I will be very >appreciative of ideas you may wish to offer. Thanks in advance for your >time. >I've been an Alternative Dispute Resolution, ADR, Specialist at the >Department of Veterans Affairs, DVA for 3 years next March. I'm >experiencing ongoing retaliation in a hostile environment, and trying to >tolerate it to remain employed and achieve career status. The situation >is now intolerable >I was recruited into a Schedule A, (disability related hiring >authority), and moved from California to Washington DC 3/07. I was >given opportunities above my grade level, GS-11, within the first 6 >months, completed assignments successfully and promoted to GS-12 in >3/08. In 5/08 a manager was promoted to become my direct supervisor. >Days before her promotion was finalized, I asked my current boss, the >Deputy Assistant Secretary, DAS for a transfer since I had experienced >this manager's verbal abuse and discriminatory treatment from the start >of the application process. The DAS assured me the manager would not >bother me but denied my request. In the next rating period after my >promotion, the manager rated me as "needs improvement'". In 12/08 the >oral threats of termination at any time began coming from the manager >with no guidance, counseling, etc. and I filed an >EEO Complaint in 1/09. The manager terminated me in 2/09. I appealed >to >the Secretary of VA, and his Chief of Staff, John Gingrage, stated "We >will make this right." The termination was reversed, but I was placed >back in the same office under the same manager. I was given to >understand it was a "take it or leave it" proposition. >I resumed work but the same pattern continued with the set up for >failure >becoming more blatant. I hired Gebhardt and Assoc. to represent me in >the >EEO process. As my complaint moved to the formal stage, the manager >placed me on a Plan to Improve Performance, PIP in 7/09, required me to >change software from what I had used, and team members continued to use, >increased my work load and added unfamiliar assignments . The manager >also designated an incompetent reader/sighted assistance and has ignored >all my communications of ineffective reasonable accommodation. 11/09 she >reported I failed the PIP and proposed my removal. >We are preparing a response given a deadline of 12/24/09. >Yesterday as the manager and I discussed my assignments and I asked for >clarification on a change to my performance standard she made lest week >that ensures my failure, the ombudsman walked into the meeting and I >agreed to spend 15 minutes articulating the issue to him. At that point >the manager said, "Well, I don't think I'm speaking out of turn, but- >"and proceeded to disclose that I was on a PIP, had failed the PIP, and >she had proposed my removal. I have never discussed my personnel >history with team members or other employees. I confronted the manager >with the breach of my confidential records and observed as she >rationalized her conduct stating that the ombudsman is acting to resolve >a dispute, and the information was relevant to him- as though discussion >of any performance question with this manager must include the ombudsman >and my agreement to meet with him a few minutes gave the manager license >to disclose my confidential record. >I was unable to concentrate on work due to my own experience of shock >and the manager's continued oral harassment as she repeatedly entered my >office through the remainder of the day. I guess the only way to get >away from her is to take sick leave today and Monday to determine next >steps. I am very close to achieving career status- March 5 2010. I >believe this manager intends to ensure I never accomplish it, and that >her determination to be rid of me is of utmost importance to her. >Meanwhile it is difficult for me to decide a best course to take at >present. >Again, thanks for listening. >Cathryn Bonnette (cathrynisfinally at verizon.net) >_______________________________________________ >blindlaw mailing list >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >blindlaw: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dfrye%4 0nfb.or >g >_______________________________________________ >blindlaw mailing list >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >blindlaw: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cathryn isfinally%4 >0verizon.net >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >Version: 8.5.427 / Virus Database: 270.14.105/2562 - Release Date: 12/18/09 >07:35:00 >_______________________________________________ >blindlaw mailing list >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dfrye%4 0nfb.org From dandrews at visi.com Sat Dec 19 04:35:46 2009 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2009 22:35:46 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] White House Fellows program Message-ID: > >President Obama and Mrs. Obama would like your help to encourage >talented leaders with disabilities to apply to the White House >Fellows program. > > Obviously, we are committed to inclusion of people with > disabilities but we need you all to spread the word and help > identify qualified candidates. > > Please very carefully review the type of candidate that should > apply to this type of program. > > > >The White House Fellowship is one of the nation's most prestigious >programs for leadership and public service. Each year, 11-19 >exceptional young men and women are selected to spend a year in >Washington, D.C. to gain first-hand experience in the process of >governing the nation at the highest levels of the Federal government. > > > >Candidates need to be promising young leaders who are excelling >early in their careers and are committed to leadership and public >service. Thus, this is not for students but rather for individuals >already into their careers. > > > >Attached is a letter from President and Mrs. Obama. Please share >this message with qualified applicants and/or organizations in your >network that can help identify such candidates. > > > >Learn more about the White House Fellowship >http://www.whitehouse.gov/fellows > > > >Download the application >http://www.whitehouse.gov/about/fellows/apply1 > > > > > > >The information about the program is on the website. Applicants >should follow the procedures using the on-line links above. The >deadline is February 1. > > > >__________________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: President and First Lady Obama White House Fellows Message.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 65298 bytes Desc: not available URL: From cathrynisfinally at verizon.net Sun Dec 20 15:51:42 2009 From: cathrynisfinally at verizon.net (Cathryn Bonnette) Date: Sun, 20 Dec 2009 10:51:42 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] DVA Dispute ResolutionProgramManagerBreachesConfidentiality In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Dan: I thoroughly enjoyed talking with you today. Thanks much for your time and listening ear. My contact details follow. Please use home contacts first: Home e-mail: cathrynisfinally at verizon.net Hone phone: 703-553-0477 Work contacts are not preferred at present, but here's the info: Office e-mail: Cathryn.bonnette at va.gov Office phone: 202-461-0513 Feel free to share with Fred S. as we discussed. Also, my plan is to e-mail my atty re: 1) contacting Jim Moran, and 2) trying other political moves such as Christine Griffin, NFB, and/or the media. OK, Dan, be well, and enjoy the blizzard!!!!!! -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf of Dan Frye Sent: Friday, December 18, 2009 9:27 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] DVA Dispute ResolutionProgramManagerBreachesConfidentiality Kathryn: My contact details are below. Please call over the weekend. Reaching me on my mobile will be easiest, but my home number is also (410) 243-1818. I have a chapter meeting in the morning, but I will be otherwise free. Daniel B. Frye Office: (410) 659-9314, Ext 2208 Mobile: (410) 241-7006 Note: This message has been issued remotely from the BrailleNote. > ----- Original Message ----- >From: "Cathryn Bonnette" To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Date sent: Fri, 18 Dec 2009 15:50:04 -0500 >Subject: Re: [blindlaw] DVA Dispute Resolution ProgramManagerBreachesConfidentiality >Dan: >Thanks for responding. I found your e-mail, but not a phone #. If you are >open to discussing- my # is 703-553-0477. Interested to hear your input. >Cathryn >-----Original Message----- >From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >Behalf Of Frye, Dan >Sent: Friday, December 18, 2009 8:58 AM >To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >Subject: Re: [blindlaw] DVA Dispute Resolution Program >ManagerBreachesConfidentiality >Cathryn: >During my years as a Federal employee (I'm no longer serving in this >capacity), I served as a union representative. Consequently, I have a >variety of experiences that I can share with you that could prove >helpful in resolving your situation. Give me a call or write privately >(my contact details are below) if you wish to communicate. In the >interim, follow your current course of action. Get your appeal filed, >continue doing your job, document your efforts at resolution, and >minimize your verbal, undocumented communication with your manager to >instances of absolute necessity and preferably limit conversation with >her to circumstances in the presence of reliable others. Stay strong >while you're fighting the system because you're always at a disadvantage >if somebody with authority over you has decided to target your >performance. You either have to make your way through the process of >acquitting yourself or decide to leave. If you've chosen to try and >stay, you seem to be doing what you must. Finally, begin discretely >looking for other employment opportunities so that you have options if >matters become intolerable or a decision on the merits of your EEO and >other complaints are not favorable. I know nothing about the substantive >merits of your case, but these are my superficial first thoughts. Write >or call if You'd like to discuss this further. >Dan Frye >-----Original Message----- >From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >On Behalf Of Cathryn Bonnette >Sent: Friday, December 18, 2009 4:05 AM >To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' >Subject: [blindlaw] DVA Dispute Resolution Program Manager >BreachesConfidentiality >All: >A sum of events follows in my federal employment. I will be very >appreciative of ideas you may wish to offer. Thanks in advance for your >time. >I've been an Alternative Dispute Resolution, ADR, Specialist at the >Department of Veterans Affairs, DVA for 3 years next March. I'm >experiencing ongoing retaliation in a hostile environment, and trying to >tolerate it to remain employed and achieve career status. The situation >is now intolerable >I was recruited into a Schedule A, (disability related hiring >authority), and moved from California to Washington DC 3/07. I was >given opportunities above my grade level, GS-11, within the first 6 >months, completed assignments successfully and promoted to GS-12 in >3/08. In 5/08 a manager was promoted to become my direct supervisor. >Days before her promotion was finalized, I asked my current boss, the >Deputy Assistant Secretary, DAS for a transfer since I had experienced >this manager's verbal abuse and discriminatory treatment from the start >of the application process. The DAS assured me the manager would not >bother me but denied my request. In the next rating period after my >promotion, the manager rated me as "needs improvement'". In 12/08 the >oral threats of termination at any time began coming from the manager >with no guidance, counseling, etc. and I filed an >EEO Complaint in 1/09. The manager terminated me in 2/09. I appealed >to >the Secretary of VA, and his Chief of Staff, John Gingrage, stated "We >will make this right." The termination was reversed, but I was placed >back in the same office under the same manager. I was given to >understand it was a "take it or leave it" proposition. >I resumed work but the same pattern continued with the set up for >failure >becoming more blatant. I hired Gebhardt and Assoc. to represent me in >the >EEO process. As my complaint moved to the formal stage, the manager >placed me on a Plan to Improve Performance, PIP in 7/09, required me to >change software from what I had used, and team members continued to use, >increased my work load and added unfamiliar assignments . The manager >also designated an incompetent reader/sighted assistance and has ignored >all my communications of ineffective reasonable accommodation. 11/09 she >reported I failed the PIP and proposed my removal. >We are preparing a response given a deadline of 12/24/09. >Yesterday as the manager and I discussed my assignments and I asked for >clarification on a change to my performance standard she made lest week >that ensures my failure, the ombudsman walked into the meeting and I >agreed to spend 15 minutes articulating the issue to him. At that point >the manager said, "Well, I don't think I'm speaking out of turn, but- >"and proceeded to disclose that I was on a PIP, had failed the PIP, and >she had proposed my removal. I have never discussed my personnel >history with team members or other employees. I confronted the manager >with the breach of my confidential records and observed as she >rationalized her conduct stating that the ombudsman is acting to resolve >a dispute, and the information was relevant to him- as though discussion >of any performance question with this manager must include the ombudsman >and my agreement to meet with him a few minutes gave the manager license >to disclose my confidential record. >I was unable to concentrate on work due to my own experience of shock >and the manager's continued oral harassment as she repeatedly entered my >office through the remainder of the day. I guess the only way to get >away from her is to take sick leave today and Monday to determine next >steps. I am very close to achieving career status- March 5 2010. I >believe this manager intends to ensure I never accomplish it, and that >her determination to be rid of me is of utmost importance to her. >Meanwhile it is difficult for me to decide a best course to take at >present. >Again, thanks for listening. >Cathryn Bonnette (cathrynisfinally at verizon.net) >_______________________________________________ >blindlaw mailing list >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >blindlaw: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dfrye%4 0nfb.or >g >_______________________________________________ >blindlaw mailing list >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >blindlaw: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cathryn isfinally%4 >0verizon.net >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >Version: 8.5.427 / Virus Database: 270.14.105/2562 - Release Date: 12/18/09 >07:35:00 >_______________________________________________ >blindlaw mailing list >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dfrye%4 0nfb.org _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cathrynisfinally%4 0verizon.net No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.427 / Virus Database: 270.14.105/2562 - Release Date: 12/18/09 07:35:00 From joramsey at cox.net Sun Dec 20 18:08:05 2009 From: joramsey at cox.net (John Ramsey) Date: Sun, 20 Dec 2009 13:08:05 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] DVA Dispute ResolutionProgramManagerBreachesConfidentiality In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <910E00AA0DA740309667AE4A9AEF60F6@noneeb869fea9a> Dan and Katherine, Do you want your personal contact information posted to this list? John A. Ramsey Jr., Esq. Gainesville, FL 32609 (352) 505-6642 This communication contains information that may be confidential and/or legally privileged. It is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. If you have received this communication in error, please call us at (352) 505-6642 and destroy any associated printed materials and delete the electronic material from any computer. Please be aware that any unauthorized disclosure, use or publication of this communication or the information it contains may result in criminal and/or civil liability. Due to this message being transmitted over the Internet, John Ramsey cannot assure that the messages are secure. If you are uncomfortable with such risks, you may decide not to use email to communicate with John Ramsey. Please contact us immediately at (352) 505-6642 if you decide not to use email. You must also be aware that email messages may be delayed or undelivered through circumstances beyond our control. Thank you. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Cathryn Bonnette Sent: Sunday, December 20, 2009 10:52 AM To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: Re: [blindlaw] DVA Dispute ResolutionProgramManagerBreachesConfidentiality Dan: I thoroughly enjoyed talking with you today. Thanks much for your time and listening ear. My contact details follow. Please use home contacts first: Home e-mail: cathrynisfinally at verizon.net Hone phone: 703-553-0477 Work contacts are not preferred at present, but here's the info: Office e-mail: Cathryn.bonnette at va.gov Office phone: 202-461-0513 Feel free to share with Fred S. as we discussed. Also, my plan is to e-mail my atty re: 1) contacting Jim Moran, and 2) trying other political moves such as Christine Griffin, NFB, and/or the media. OK, Dan, be well, and enjoy the blizzard!!!!!! -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf of Dan Frye Sent: Friday, December 18, 2009 9:27 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] DVA Dispute ResolutionProgramManagerBreachesConfidentiality Kathryn: My contact details are below. Please call over the weekend. Reaching me on my mobile will be easiest, but my home number is also (410) 243-1818. I have a chapter meeting in the morning, but I will be otherwise free. Daniel B. Frye Office: (410) 659-9314, Ext 2208 Mobile: (410) 241-7006 Note: This message has been issued remotely from the BrailleNote. > ----- Original Message ----- >From: "Cathryn Bonnette" To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Fri, 18 Dec 2009 15:50:04 -0500 >Subject: Re: [blindlaw] DVA Dispute Resolution ProgramManagerBreachesConfidentiality >Dan: >Thanks for responding. I found your e-mail, but not a phone #. If you are >open to discussing- my # is 703-553-0477. Interested to hear your input. >Cathryn >-----Original Message----- >From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >Behalf Of Frye, Dan >Sent: Friday, December 18, 2009 8:58 AM >To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >Subject: Re: [blindlaw] DVA Dispute Resolution Program >ManagerBreachesConfidentiality >Cathryn: >During my years as a Federal employee (I'm no longer serving in this >capacity), I served as a union representative. Consequently, I have a >variety of experiences that I can share with you that could prove >helpful in resolving your situation. Give me a call or write privately >(my contact details are below) if you wish to communicate. In the >interim, follow your current course of action. Get your appeal filed, >continue doing your job, document your efforts at resolution, and >minimize your verbal, undocumented communication with your manager to >instances of absolute necessity and preferably limit conversation with >her to circumstances in the presence of reliable others. Stay strong >while you're fighting the system because you're always at a disadvantage >if somebody with authority over you has decided to target your >performance. You either have to make your way through the process of >acquitting yourself or decide to leave. If you've chosen to try and >stay, you seem to be doing what you must. Finally, begin discretely >looking for other employment opportunities so that you have options if >matters become intolerable or a decision on the merits of your EEO and >other complaints are not favorable. I know nothing about the substantive >merits of your case, but these are my superficial first thoughts. Write >or call if You'd like to discuss this further. >Dan Frye >-----Original Message----- >From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >On Behalf Of Cathryn Bonnette >Sent: Friday, December 18, 2009 4:05 AM >To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' >Subject: [blindlaw] DVA Dispute Resolution Program Manager >BreachesConfidentiality >All: >A sum of events follows in my federal employment. I will be very >appreciative of ideas you may wish to offer. Thanks in advance for your >time. >I've been an Alternative Dispute Resolution, ADR, Specialist at the >Department of Veterans Affairs, DVA for 3 years next March. I'm >experiencing ongoing retaliation in a hostile environment, and trying to >tolerate it to remain employed and achieve career status. The situation >is now intolerable >I was recruited into a Schedule A, (disability related hiring >authority), and moved from California to Washington DC 3/07. I was >given opportunities above my grade level, GS-11, within the first 6 >months, completed assignments successfully and promoted to GS-12 in >3/08. In 5/08 a manager was promoted to become my direct supervisor. >Days before her promotion was finalized, I asked my current boss, the >Deputy Assistant Secretary, DAS for a transfer since I had experienced >this manager's verbal abuse and discriminatory treatment from the start >of the application process. The DAS assured me the manager would not >bother me but denied my request. In the next rating period after my >promotion, the manager rated me as "needs improvement'". In 12/08 the >oral threats of termination at any time began coming from the manager >with no guidance, counseling, etc. and I filed an >EEO Complaint in 1/09. The manager terminated me in 2/09. I appealed >to >the Secretary of VA, and his Chief of Staff, John Gingrage, stated "We >will make this right." The termination was reversed, but I was placed >back in the same office under the same manager. I was given to >understand it was a "take it or leave it" proposition. >I resumed work but the same pattern continued with the set up for >failure >becoming more blatant. I hired Gebhardt and Assoc. to represent me in >the >EEO process. As my complaint moved to the formal stage, the manager >placed me on a Plan to Improve Performance, PIP in 7/09, required me to >change software from what I had used, and team members continued to use, >increased my work load and added unfamiliar assignments . The manager >also designated an incompetent reader/sighted assistance and has ignored >all my communications of ineffective reasonable accommodation. 11/09 she >reported I failed the PIP and proposed my removal. >We are preparing a response given a deadline of 12/24/09. >Yesterday as the manager and I discussed my assignments and I asked for >clarification on a change to my performance standard she made lest week >that ensures my failure, the ombudsman walked into the meeting and I >agreed to spend 15 minutes articulating the issue to him. At that point >the manager said, "Well, I don't think I'm speaking out of turn, but- >"and proceeded to disclose that I was on a PIP, had failed the PIP, and >she had proposed my removal. I have never discussed my personnel >history with team members or other employees. I confronted the manager >with the breach of my confidential records and observed as she >rationalized her conduct stating that the ombudsman is acting to resolve >a dispute, and the information was relevant to him- as though discussion >of any performance question with this manager must include the ombudsman >and my agreement to meet with him a few minutes gave the manager license >to disclose my confidential record. >I was unable to concentrate on work due to my own experience of shock >and the manager's continued oral harassment as she repeatedly entered my >office through the remainder of the day. I guess the only way to get >away from her is to take sick leave today and Monday to determine next >steps. I am very close to achieving career status- March 5 2010. I >believe this manager intends to ensure I never accomplish it, and that >her determination to be rid of me is of utmost importance to her. >Meanwhile it is difficult for me to decide a best course to take at >present. >Again, thanks for listening. >Cathryn Bonnette (cathrynisfinally at verizon.net) >_______________________________________________ >blindlaw mailing list >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >blindlaw: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dfrye%4 0nfb.or >g >_______________________________________________ >blindlaw mailing list >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >blindlaw: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cathryn isfinally%4 >0verizon.net >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >Version: 8.5.427 / Virus Database: 270.14.105/2562 - Release Date: 12/18/09 >07:35:00 >_______________________________________________ >blindlaw mailing list >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dfrye%4 0nfb.org _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cathrynisfinally%4 0verizon.net No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.427 / Virus Database: 270.14.105/2562 - Release Date: 12/18/09 07:35:00 _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joramsey%40cox.net From dfrye at nfb.org Sun Dec 20 19:15:47 2009 From: dfrye at nfb.org (Dan Frye) Date: Sun, 20 Dec 2009 14:15:47 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] DVA DisputeResolutionProgramManagerBreachesConfidentiality Message-ID: John: I have no problem with my contact details being posted to this list. Most on this list are friends or acquaintances, all interested in promoting the practice of law with blind attorneys, helping blind people with blindness-related legal challenges, or circulating information of interest to the NFB. So, I have no problem with posting my data to the list? If I didn't want it posted, I'd not include it in my email. Is it proving bothersome or representing too much traffic? Daniel B. Frye Office: (410) 659-9314, Ext 2208 Mobile: (410) 241-7006 Note: This message has been issued remotely from the BrailleNote. > ----- Original Message ----- >From: "John Ramsey" To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Date sent: Sun, 20 Dec 2009 13:08:05 -0500 >Subject: Re: [blindlaw] DVA DisputeResolutionProgramManagerBreachesConfidentiality >Dan and Katherine, >Do you want your personal contact information posted to this list? >John A. Ramsey Jr., Esq. >Gainesville, FL 32609 >(352) 505-6642 >This communication contains information that may be confidential and/or >legally privileged. It is intended only for the use of the individual or >entity to which it is addressed. If you have received this communication in >error, please call us at (352) 505-6642 and destroy any associated printed >materials and delete the electronic material from any computer. Please be >aware that any unauthorized disclosure, use or publication of this >communication or the information it contains may result in criminal and/or >civil liability. Due to this message being transmitted over the Internet, >John Ramsey cannot assure that the messages are secure. If you are >uncomfortable with such risks, you may decide not to use email to >communicate with John Ramsey. Please contact us immediately at (352) >505-6642 if you decide not to use email. You must also be aware that email >messages may be delayed or undelivered through circumstances beyond our >control. Thank you. >-----Original Message----- >From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >Behalf Of Cathryn Bonnette >Sent: Sunday, December 20, 2009 10:52 AM >To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' >Subject: Re: [blindlaw] DVA Dispute >ResolutionProgramManagerBreachesConfidentiality >Dan: >I thoroughly enjoyed talking with you today. Thanks much for your time and >listening ear. My contact details follow. >Please use home contacts first: >Home e-mail: cathrynisfinally at verizon.net >Hone phone: 703-553-0477 >Work contacts are not preferred at present, but here's the info: Office >e-mail: Cathryn.bonnette at va.gov Office phone: 202-461-0513 Feel free to >share with Fred S. as we discussed. >Also, my plan is to e-mail my atty re: 1) contacting Jim Moran, and 2) >trying other political moves such as Christine Griffin, NFB, and/or the >media. >OK, Dan, be well, and enjoy the blizzard!!!!!! >-----Original Message----- >From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >Behalf of Dan Frye >Sent: Friday, December 18, 2009 9:27 PM >To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >Subject: Re: [blindlaw] DVA Dispute >ResolutionProgramManagerBreachesConfidentiality >Kathryn: >My contact details are below. Please call over the weekend. >Reaching me on my mobile will be easiest, but my home number is >also (410) 243-1818. I have a chapter meeting in the morning, >but I will be otherwise free. >Daniel B. Frye >Office: (410) 659-9314, Ext 2208 >Mobile: (410) 241-7006 >Note: This message has been issued remotely from the BrailleNote. >> ----- Original Message ----- >>From: "Cathryn Bonnette" >To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >Fri, 18 Dec 2009 15:50:04 -0500 >>Subject: Re: [blindlaw] DVA Dispute Resolution >ProgramManagerBreachesConfidentiality >>Dan: >>Thanks for responding. I found your e-mail, but not a phone #. >If you are >>open to discussing- my # is 703-553-0477. Interested to hear >your input. >>Cathryn >>-----Original Message----- >>From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >[mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>Behalf Of Frye, Dan >>Sent: Friday, December 18, 2009 8:58 AM >>To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>Subject: Re: [blindlaw] DVA Dispute Resolution Program >>ManagerBreachesConfidentiality >>Cathryn: >>During my years as a Federal employee (I'm no longer serving in >this >>capacity), I served as a union representative. Consequently, I >have a >>variety of experiences that I can share with you that could prove >>helpful in resolving your situation. Give me a call or write >privately >>(my contact details are below) if you wish to communicate. In >the >>interim, follow your current course of action. Get your appeal >filed, >>continue doing your job, document your efforts at resolution, and >>minimize your verbal, undocumented communication with your >manager to >>instances of absolute necessity and preferably limit conversation >with >>her to circumstances in the presence of reliable others. Stay >strong >>while you're fighting the system because you're always at a >disadvantage >>if somebody with authority over you has decided to target your >>performance. You either have to make your way through the >process of >>acquitting yourself or decide to leave. If you've chosen to try >and >>stay, you seem to be doing what you must. Finally, begin >discretely >>looking for other employment opportunities so that you have >options if >>matters become intolerable or a decision on the merits of your >EEO and >>other complaints are not favorable. I know nothing about the >substantive >>merits of your case, but these are my superficial first thoughts. >Write >>or call if You'd like to discuss this further. >>Dan Frye >>-----Original Message----- >>From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >[mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>On Behalf Of Cathryn Bonnette >>Sent: Friday, December 18, 2009 4:05 AM >>To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' >>Subject: [blindlaw] DVA Dispute Resolution Program Manager >>BreachesConfidentiality >>All: >>A sum of events follows in my federal employment. I will be very >>appreciative of ideas you may wish to offer. Thanks in advance >for your >>time. >>I've been an Alternative Dispute Resolution, ADR, Specialist at >the >>Department of Veterans Affairs, DVA for 3 years next March. I'm >>experiencing ongoing retaliation in a hostile environment, and >trying to >>tolerate it to remain employed and achieve career status. The >situation >>is now intolerable >>I was recruited into a Schedule A, (disability related hiring >>authority), and moved from California to Washington DC 3/07. I >was >>given opportunities above my grade level, GS-11, within the first >6 >>months, completed assignments successfully and promoted to GS-12 >in >>3/08. In 5/08 a manager was promoted to become my direct >supervisor. >>Days before her promotion was finalized, I asked my current boss, >the >>Deputy Assistant Secretary, DAS for a transfer since I had >experienced >>this manager's verbal abuse and discriminatory treatment from the >start >>of the application process. The DAS assured me the manager would >not >>bother me but denied my request. In the next rating period after >my >>promotion, the manager rated me as "needs improvement'". In >12/08 the >>oral threats of termination at any time began coming from the >manager >>with no guidance, counseling, etc. and I filed an >>EEO Complaint in 1/09. The manager terminated me in 2/09. I >appealed >>to >>the Secretary of VA, and his Chief of Staff, John Gingrage, >stated "We >>will make this right." The termination was reversed, but I was >placed >>back in the same office under the same manager. I was given to >>understand it was a "take it or leave it" proposition. >>I resumed work but the same pattern continued with the set up for >>failure >>becoming more blatant. I hired Gebhardt and Assoc. to >represent me in >>the >>EEO process. As my complaint moved to the formal stage, the >manager >>placed me on a Plan to Improve Performance, PIP in 7/09, required >me to >>change software from what I had used, and team members continued >to use, >>increased my work load and added unfamiliar assignments . The >manager >>also designated an incompetent reader/sighted assistance and has >ignored >>all my communications of ineffective reasonable accommodation. >11/09 she >>reported I failed the PIP and proposed my removal. >>We are preparing a response given a deadline of 12/24/09. >>Yesterday as the manager and I discussed my assignments and I >asked for >>clarification on a change to my performance standard she made >lest week >>that ensures my failure, the ombudsman walked into the meeting >and I >>agreed to spend 15 minutes articulating the issue to him. At >that point >>the manager said, "Well, I don't think I'm speaking out of turn, >but- >>"and proceeded to disclose that I was on a PIP, had failed the >PIP, and >>she had proposed my removal. I have never discussed my personnel >>history with team members or other employees. I confronted the >manager >>with the breach of my confidential records and observed as she >>rationalized her conduct stating that the ombudsman is acting to >resolve >>a dispute, and the information was relevant to him- as though >discussion >>of any performance question with this manager must include the >ombudsman >>and my agreement to meet with him a few minutes gave the manager >license >>to disclose my confidential record. >>I was unable to concentrate on work due to my own experience of >shock >>and the manager's continued oral harassment as she repeatedly >entered my >>office through the remainder of the day. I guess the only way to >get >>away from her is to take sick leave today and Monday to >determine next >>steps. I am very close to achieving career status- March 5 2010. >I >>believe this manager intends to ensure I never accomplish it, and >that >>her determination to be rid of me is of utmost importance to her. >>Meanwhile it is difficult for me to decide a best course to take >at >>present. >>Again, thanks for listening. >>Cathryn Bonnette (cathrynisfinally at verizon.net) >>_______________________________________________ >>blindlaw mailing list >>blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >for >>blindlaw: >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dfrye%4 >0nfb.or >>g >>_______________________________________________ >>blindlaw mailing list >>blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >for >>blindlaw: >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cathryn >isfinally%4 >>0verizon.net >>No virus found in this incoming message. >>Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>Version: 8.5.427 / Virus Database: 270.14.105/2562 - Release >Date: 12/18/09 >>07:35:00 >>_______________________________________________ >>blindlaw mailing list >>blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >for blindlaw: >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dfrye%4 >0nfb.org >_______________________________________________ >blindlaw mailing list >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >blindlaw: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cathryn isfinally%4 >0verizon.net >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >Version: 8.5.427 / Virus Database: 270.14.105/2562 - Release Date: 12/18/09 >07:35:00 >_______________________________________________ >blindlaw mailing list >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >blindlaw: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joramse y%40cox.net >_______________________________________________ >blindlaw mailing list >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dfrye%4 0nfb.org From dfrye at nfb.org Sun Dec 20 19:15:49 2009 From: dfrye at nfb.org (Dan Frye) Date: Sun, 20 Dec 2009 14:15:49 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] DVA DisputeResolutionProgramManagerBreachesConfidentiality Message-ID: Thanks, Kathryn. I've forwarded your details to Fred Schroeder to see what advocacy or political support that our Virginia affiliate might be able to offer. Good luck and enjoy your trip to North Carolina. Daniel B. Frye Office: (410) 659-9314, Ext 2208 Mobile: (410) 241-7006 Note: This message has been issued remotely from the BrailleNote. > ----- Original Message ----- >From: "Cathryn Bonnette" To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Date sent: Sun, 20 Dec 2009 10:51:42 -0500 >Subject: Re: [blindlaw] DVA DisputeResolutionProgramManagerBreachesConfidentiality >Dan: >I thoroughly enjoyed talking with you today. Thanks much for your time and >listening ear. My contact details follow. >Please use home contacts first: >Home e-mail: cathrynisfinally at verizon.net >Hone phone: 703-553-0477 >Work contacts are not preferred at present, but here's the info: >Office e-mail: Cathryn.bonnette at va.gov >Office phone: 202-461-0513 >Feel free to share with Fred S. as we discussed. >Also, my plan is to e-mail my atty re: 1) contacting Jim Moran, and 2) >trying other political moves such as Christine Griffin, NFB, and/or the >media. >OK, Dan, be well, and enjoy the blizzard!!!!!! >-----Original Message----- >From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >Behalf of Dan Frye >Sent: Friday, December 18, 2009 9:27 PM >To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >Subject: Re: [blindlaw] DVA Dispute >ResolutionProgramManagerBreachesConfidentiality >Kathryn: >My contact details are below. Please call over the weekend. >Reaching me on my mobile will be easiest, but my home number is >also (410) 243-1818. I have a chapter meeting in the morning, >but I will be otherwise free. >Daniel B. Frye >Office: (410) 659-9314, Ext 2208 >Mobile: (410) 241-7006 >Note: This message has been issued remotely from the BrailleNote. >> ----- Original Message ----- >>From: "Cathryn Bonnette" >To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >Date sent: Fri, 18 Dec 2009 15:50:04 -0500 >>Subject: Re: [blindlaw] DVA Dispute Resolution >ProgramManagerBreachesConfidentiality >>Dan: >>Thanks for responding. I found your e-mail, but not a phone #. >If you are >>open to discussing- my # is 703-553-0477. Interested to hear >your input. >>Cathryn >>-----Original Message----- >>From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >[mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>Behalf Of Frye, Dan >>Sent: Friday, December 18, 2009 8:58 AM >>To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>Subject: Re: [blindlaw] DVA Dispute Resolution Program >>ManagerBreachesConfidentiality >>Cathryn: >>During my years as a Federal employee (I'm no longer serving in >this >>capacity), I served as a union representative. Consequently, I >have a >>variety of experiences that I can share with you that could prove >>helpful in resolving your situation. Give me a call or write >privately >>(my contact details are below) if you wish to communicate. In >the >>interim, follow your current course of action. Get your appeal >filed, >>continue doing your job, document your efforts at resolution, and >>minimize your verbal, undocumented communication with your >manager to >>instances of absolute necessity and preferably limit conversation >with >>her to circumstances in the presence of reliable others. Stay >strong >>while you're fighting the system because you're always at a >disadvantage >>if somebody with authority over you has decided to target your >>performance. You either have to make your way through the >process of >>acquitting yourself or decide to leave. If you've chosen to try >and >>stay, you seem to be doing what you must. Finally, begin >discretely >>looking for other employment opportunities so that you have >options if >>matters become intolerable or a decision on the merits of your >EEO and >>other complaints are not favorable. I know nothing about the >substantive >>merits of your case, but these are my superficial first thoughts. >Write >>or call if You'd like to discuss this further. >>Dan Frye >>-----Original Message----- >>From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >[mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>On Behalf Of Cathryn Bonnette >>Sent: Friday, December 18, 2009 4:05 AM >>To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' >>Subject: [blindlaw] DVA Dispute Resolution Program Manager >>BreachesConfidentiality >>All: >>A sum of events follows in my federal employment. I will be very >>appreciative of ideas you may wish to offer. Thanks in advance >for your >>time. >>I've been an Alternative Dispute Resolution, ADR, Specialist at >the >>Department of Veterans Affairs, DVA for 3 years next March. I'm >>experiencing ongoing retaliation in a hostile environment, and >trying to >>tolerate it to remain employed and achieve career status. The >situation >>is now intolerable >>I was recruited into a Schedule A, (disability related hiring >>authority), and moved from California to Washington DC 3/07. I >was >>given opportunities above my grade level, GS-11, within the first >6 >>months, completed assignments successfully and promoted to GS-12 >in >>3/08. In 5/08 a manager was promoted to become my direct >supervisor. >>Days before her promotion was finalized, I asked my current boss, >the >>Deputy Assistant Secretary, DAS for a transfer since I had >experienced >>this manager's verbal abuse and discriminatory treatment from the >start >>of the application process. The DAS assured me the manager would >not >>bother me but denied my request. In the next rating period after >my >>promotion, the manager rated me as "needs improvement'". In >12/08 the >>oral threats of termination at any time began coming from the >manager >>with no guidance, counseling, etc. and I filed an >>EEO Complaint in 1/09. The manager terminated me in 2/09. I >appealed >>to >>the Secretary of VA, and his Chief of Staff, John Gingrage, >stated "We >>will make this right." The termination was reversed, but I was >placed >>back in the same office under the same manager. I was given to >>understand it was a "take it or leave it" proposition. >>I resumed work but the same pattern continued with the set up for >>failure >>becoming more blatant. I hired Gebhardt and Assoc. to >represent me in >>the >>EEO process. As my complaint moved to the formal stage, the >manager >>placed me on a Plan to Improve Performance, PIP in 7/09, required >me to >>change software from what I had used, and team members continued >to use, >>increased my work load and added unfamiliar assignments . The >manager >>also designated an incompetent reader/sighted assistance and has >ignored >>all my communications of ineffective reasonable accommodation. >11/09 she >>reported I failed the PIP and proposed my removal. >>We are preparing a response given a deadline of 12/24/09. >>Yesterday as the manager and I discussed my assignments and I >asked for >>clarification on a change to my performance standard she made >lest week >>that ensures my failure, the ombudsman walked into the meeting >and I >>agreed to spend 15 minutes articulating the issue to him. At >that point >>the manager said, "Well, I don't think I'm speaking out of turn, >but- >>"and proceeded to disclose that I was on a PIP, had failed the >PIP, and >>she had proposed my removal. I have never discussed my personnel >>history with team members or other employees. I confronted the >manager >>with the breach of my confidential records and observed as she >>rationalized her conduct stating that the ombudsman is acting to >resolve >>a dispute, and the information was relevant to him- as though >discussion >>of any performance question with this manager must include the >ombudsman >>and my agreement to meet with him a few minutes gave the manager >license >>to disclose my confidential record. >>I was unable to concentrate on work due to my own experience of >shock >>and the manager's continued oral harassment as she repeatedly >entered my >>office through the remainder of the day. I guess the only way to >get >>away from her is to take sick leave today and Monday to >determine next >>steps. I am very close to achieving career status- March 5 2010. >I >>believe this manager intends to ensure I never accomplish it, and >that >>her determination to be rid of me is of utmost importance to her. >>Meanwhile it is difficult for me to decide a best course to take >at >>present. >>Again, thanks for listening. >>Cathryn Bonnette (cathrynisfinally at verizon.net) >>_______________________________________________ >>blindlaw mailing list >>blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >for >>blindlaw: >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dfrye%4 >0nfb.or >>g >>_______________________________________________ >>blindlaw mailing list >>blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >for >>blindlaw: >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cathryn >isfinally%4 >>0verizon.net >>No virus found in this incoming message. >>Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>Version: 8.5.427 / Virus Database: 270.14.105/2562 - Release >Date: 12/18/09 >>07:35:00 >>_______________________________________________ >>blindlaw mailing list >>blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >for blindlaw: >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dfrye%4 >0nfb.org >_______________________________________________ >blindlaw mailing list >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >blindlaw: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cathryn isfinally%4 >0verizon.net >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >Version: 8.5.427 / Virus Database: 270.14.105/2562 - Release Date: 12/18/09 >07:35:00 >_______________________________________________ >blindlaw mailing list >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dfrye%4 0nfb.org From dandrews at visi.com Sun Dec 20 20:01:32 2009 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Sun, 20 Dec 2009 14:01:32 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] NFBNet.org Users Can Submit Recipes for Braille Monitor Message-ID: As you know the Braille Monitor publishes a few recipes each month. The practice, for some time is to go through the states alphabetically, one at a time, then to give Divisions a chance if they wish. We are about through the states in this cycle, and are about to go to Divisions. I have asked, and Dan Frye has agreed that NFBNET.ORG Users will get a chance to submit recipes for one of these months, June of 2010. So, I am putting out a call for recipes. I will establish a couple ground rules. First, of course, good recipes only, none of the a can of this, a can of that, and a can of mushroom soup, and bake for an hour. The recipes should be original, and not published in the Monitor previously. You can submit multiple recipes, but unless we don't get enough submissions, we will only publish one recipe per submitter to give the most people a chance. The Monitor uses six recipes per month. Finally, since I run NFBNet.org, and have for 18 years, I am the final judge. I may seek assistance, but ultimately it is my decision. Please submit your recipes to me at david.andrews at nfbnet.org Dave From joramsey at cox.net Sun Dec 20 21:04:36 2009 From: joramsey at cox.net (John Ramsey) Date: Sun, 20 Dec 2009 16:04:36 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] DVADisputeResolutionProgramManagerBreachesConfidentiality In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <88E97B05B21F42B7ACDE2F84FF20E086@noneeb869fea9a> Hi Dan, No problem and it is not bothersome. John A. Ramsey Jr., Esq. Gainesville, FL 32609 (352) 505-6642 This communication contains information that may be confidential and/or legally privileged. It is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. If you have received this communication in error, please call us at (352) 505-6642 and destroy any associated printed materials and delete the electronic material from any computer. Please be aware that any unauthorized disclosure, use or publication of this communication or the information it contains may result in criminal and/or civil liability. Due to this message being transmitted over the Internet, John Ramsey cannot assure that the messages are secure. If you are uncomfortable with such risks, you may decide not to use email to communicate with John Ramsey. Please contact us immediately at (352) 505-6642 if you decide not to use email. You must also be aware that email messages may be delayed or undelivered through circumstances beyond our control. Thank you. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Dan Frye Sent: Sunday, December 20, 2009 2:16 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] DVADisputeResolutionProgramManagerBreachesConfidentiality John: I have no problem with my contact details being posted to this list. Most on this list are friends or acquaintances, all interested in promoting the practice of law with blind attorneys, helping blind people with blindness-related legal challenges, or circulating information of interest to the NFB. So, I have no problem with posting my data to the list? If I didn't want it posted, I'd not include it in my email. Is it proving bothersome or representing too much traffic? Daniel B. Frye Office: (410) 659-9314, Ext 2208 Mobile: (410) 241-7006 Note: This message has been issued remotely from the BrailleNote. > ----- Original Message ----- >From: "John Ramsey" To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Sun, 20 Dec 2009 13:08:05 -0500 >Subject: Re: [blindlaw] DVA DisputeResolutionProgramManagerBreachesConfidentiality >Dan and Katherine, >Do you want your personal contact information posted to this list? >John A. Ramsey Jr., Esq. >Gainesville, FL 32609 >(352) 505-6642 >This communication contains information that may be confidential and/or >legally privileged. It is intended only for the use of the individual or >entity to which it is addressed. If you have received this communication in >error, please call us at (352) 505-6642 and destroy any associated printed >materials and delete the electronic material from any computer. Please be >aware that any unauthorized disclosure, use or publication of this >communication or the information it contains may result in criminal and/or >civil liability. Due to this message being transmitted over the Internet, >John Ramsey cannot assure that the messages are secure. If you are >uncomfortable with such risks, you may decide not to use email to >communicate with John Ramsey. Please contact us immediately at (352) >505-6642 if you decide not to use email. You must also be aware that email >messages may be delayed or undelivered through circumstances beyond our >control. Thank you. >-----Original Message----- >From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >Behalf Of Cathryn Bonnette >Sent: Sunday, December 20, 2009 10:52 AM >To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' >Subject: Re: [blindlaw] DVA Dispute >ResolutionProgramManagerBreachesConfidentiality >Dan: >I thoroughly enjoyed talking with you today. Thanks much for your time and >listening ear. My contact details follow. >Please use home contacts first: >Home e-mail: cathrynisfinally at verizon.net >Hone phone: 703-553-0477 >Work contacts are not preferred at present, but here's the info: Office >e-mail: Cathryn.bonnette at va.gov Office phone: 202-461-0513 Feel free to >share with Fred S. as we discussed. >Also, my plan is to e-mail my atty re: 1) contacting Jim Moran, and 2) >trying other political moves such as Christine Griffin, NFB, and/or the >media. >OK, Dan, be well, and enjoy the blizzard!!!!!! >-----Original Message----- >From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >Behalf of Dan Frye >Sent: Friday, December 18, 2009 9:27 PM >To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >Subject: Re: [blindlaw] DVA Dispute >ResolutionProgramManagerBreachesConfidentiality >Kathryn: >My contact details are below. Please call over the weekend. >Reaching me on my mobile will be easiest, but my home number is >also (410) 243-1818. I have a chapter meeting in the morning, >but I will be otherwise free. >Daniel B. Frye >Office: (410) 659-9314, Ext 2208 >Mobile: (410) 241-7006 >Note: This message has been issued remotely from the BrailleNote. >> ----- Original Message ----- >>From: "Cathryn Bonnette" >To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >Fri, 18 Dec 2009 15:50:04 -0500 >>Subject: Re: [blindlaw] DVA Dispute Resolution >ProgramManagerBreachesConfidentiality >>Dan: >>Thanks for responding. I found your e-mail, but not a phone #. >If you are >>open to discussing- my # is 703-553-0477. Interested to hear >your input. >>Cathryn >>-----Original Message----- >>From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >[mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>Behalf Of Frye, Dan >>Sent: Friday, December 18, 2009 8:58 AM >>To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>Subject: Re: [blindlaw] DVA Dispute Resolution Program >>ManagerBreachesConfidentiality >>Cathryn: >>During my years as a Federal employee (I'm no longer serving in >this >>capacity), I served as a union representative. Consequently, I >have a >>variety of experiences that I can share with you that could prove >>helpful in resolving your situation. Give me a call or write >privately >>(my contact details are below) if you wish to communicate. In >the >>interim, follow your current course of action. Get your appeal >filed, >>continue doing your job, document your efforts at resolution, and >>minimize your verbal, undocumented communication with your >manager to >>instances of absolute necessity and preferably limit conversation >with >>her to circumstances in the presence of reliable others. Stay >strong >>while you're fighting the system because you're always at a >disadvantage >>if somebody with authority over you has decided to target your >>performance. You either have to make your way through the >process of >>acquitting yourself or decide to leave. If you've chosen to try >and >>stay, you seem to be doing what you must. Finally, begin >discretely >>looking for other employment opportunities so that you have >options if >>matters become intolerable or a decision on the merits of your >EEO and >>other complaints are not favorable. I know nothing about the >substantive >>merits of your case, but these are my superficial first thoughts. >Write >>or call if You'd like to discuss this further. >>Dan Frye >>-----Original Message----- >>From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >[mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>On Behalf Of Cathryn Bonnette >>Sent: Friday, December 18, 2009 4:05 AM >>To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' >>Subject: [blindlaw] DVA Dispute Resolution Program Manager >>BreachesConfidentiality >>All: >>A sum of events follows in my federal employment. I will be very >>appreciative of ideas you may wish to offer. Thanks in advance >for your >>time. >>I've been an Alternative Dispute Resolution, ADR, Specialist at >the >>Department of Veterans Affairs, DVA for 3 years next March. I'm >>experiencing ongoing retaliation in a hostile environment, and >trying to >>tolerate it to remain employed and achieve career status. The >situation >>is now intolerable >>I was recruited into a Schedule A, (disability related hiring >>authority), and moved from California to Washington DC 3/07. I >was >>given opportunities above my grade level, GS-11, within the first >6 >>months, completed assignments successfully and promoted to GS-12 >in >>3/08. In 5/08 a manager was promoted to become my direct >supervisor. >>Days before her promotion was finalized, I asked my current boss, >the >>Deputy Assistant Secretary, DAS for a transfer since I had >experienced >>this manager's verbal abuse and discriminatory treatment from the >start >>of the application process. The DAS assured me the manager would >not >>bother me but denied my request. In the next rating period after >my >>promotion, the manager rated me as "needs improvement'". In >12/08 the >>oral threats of termination at any time began coming from the >manager >>with no guidance, counseling, etc. and I filed an >>EEO Complaint in 1/09. The manager terminated me in 2/09. I >appealed >>to >>the Secretary of VA, and his Chief of Staff, John Gingrage, >stated "We >>will make this right." The termination was reversed, but I was >placed >>back in the same office under the same manager. I was given to >>understand it was a "take it or leave it" proposition. >>I resumed work but the same pattern continued with the set up for >>failure >>becoming more blatant. I hired Gebhardt and Assoc. to >represent me in >>the >>EEO process. As my complaint moved to the formal stage, the >manager >>placed me on a Plan to Improve Performance, PIP in 7/09, required >me to >>change software from what I had used, and team members continued >to use, >>increased my work load and added unfamiliar assignments . The >manager >>also designated an incompetent reader/sighted assistance and has >ignored >>all my communications of ineffective reasonable accommodation. >11/09 she >>reported I failed the PIP and proposed my removal. >>We are preparing a response given a deadline of 12/24/09. >>Yesterday as the manager and I discussed my assignments and I >asked for >>clarification on a change to my performance standard she made >lest week >>that ensures my failure, the ombudsman walked into the meeting >and I >>agreed to spend 15 minutes articulating the issue to him. At >that point >>the manager said, "Well, I don't think I'm speaking out of turn, >but- >>"and proceeded to disclose that I was on a PIP, had failed the >PIP, and >>she had proposed my removal. I have never discussed my personnel >>history with team members or other employees. I confronted the >manager >>with the breach of my confidential records and observed as she >>rationalized her conduct stating that the ombudsman is acting to >resolve >>a dispute, and the information was relevant to him- as though >discussion >>of any performance question with this manager must include the >ombudsman >>and my agreement to meet with him a few minutes gave the manager >license >>to disclose my confidential record. >>I was unable to concentrate on work due to my own experience of >shock >>and the manager's continued oral harassment as she repeatedly >entered my >>office through the remainder of the day. I guess the only way to >get >>away from her is to take sick leave today and Monday to >determine next >>steps. I am very close to achieving career status- March 5 2010. >I >>believe this manager intends to ensure I never accomplish it, and >that >>her determination to be rid of me is of utmost importance to her. >>Meanwhile it is difficult for me to decide a best course to take >at >>present. >>Again, thanks for listening. >>Cathryn Bonnette (cathrynisfinally at verizon.net) >>_______________________________________________ >>blindlaw mailing list >>blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >for >>blindlaw: >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dfrye%4 >0nfb.or >>g >>_______________________________________________ >>blindlaw mailing list >>blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >for >>blindlaw: >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cathryn >isfinally%4 >>0verizon.net >>No virus found in this incoming message. >>Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>Version: 8.5.427 / Virus Database: 270.14.105/2562 - Release >Date: 12/18/09 >>07:35:00 >>_______________________________________________ >>blindlaw mailing list >>blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >for blindlaw: >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dfrye%4 >0nfb.org >_______________________________________________ >blindlaw mailing list >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >blindlaw: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cathryn isfinally%4 >0verizon.net >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >Version: 8.5.427 / Virus Database: 270.14.105/2562 - Release Date: 12/18/09 >07:35:00 >_______________________________________________ >blindlaw mailing list >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >blindlaw: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joramse y%40cox.net >_______________________________________________ >blindlaw mailing list >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dfrye%4 0nfb.org _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joramsey%40cox.net From cathrynisfinally at verizon.net Mon Dec 21 00:04:49 2009 From: cathrynisfinally at verizon.net (Cathryn Bonnette) Date: Sun, 20 Dec 2009 19:04:49 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] DVADisputeResolutionProgramManagerBreachesConfidentiality In-Reply-To: <88E97B05B21F42B7ACDE2F84FF20E086@noneeb869fea9a> References: <88E97B05B21F42B7ACDE2F84FF20E086@noneeb869fea9a> Message-ID: Hi, Dan Something to consider in the future, though I do not expect it to be misused in this group. Thanks -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of John Ramsey Sent: Sunday, December 20, 2009 4:05 PM To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: Re: [blindlaw]DVADisputeResolutionProgramManagerBreachesConfidentiality Hi Dan, No problem and it is not bothersome. John A. Ramsey Jr., Esq. Gainesville, FL 32609 (352) 505-6642 This communication contains information that may be confidential and/or legally privileged. It is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. If you have received this communication in error, please call us at (352) 505-6642 and destroy any associated printed materials and delete the electronic material from any computer. Please be aware that any unauthorized disclosure, use or publication of this communication or the information it contains may result in criminal and/or civil liability. Due to this message being transmitted over the Internet, John Ramsey cannot assure that the messages are secure. If you are uncomfortable with such risks, you may decide not to use email to communicate with John Ramsey. Please contact us immediately at (352) 505-6642 if you decide not to use email. You must also be aware that email messages may be delayed or undelivered through circumstances beyond our control. Thank you. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Dan Frye Sent: Sunday, December 20, 2009 2:16 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] DVADisputeResolutionProgramManagerBreachesConfidentiality John: I have no problem with my contact details being posted to this list. Most on this list are friends or acquaintances, all interested in promoting the practice of law with blind attorneys, helping blind people with blindness-related legal challenges, or circulating information of interest to the NFB. So, I have no problem with posting my data to the list? If I didn't want it posted, I'd not include it in my email. Is it proving bothersome or representing too much traffic? Daniel B. Frye Office: (410) 659-9314, Ext 2208 Mobile: (410) 241-7006 Note: This message has been issued remotely from the BrailleNote. > ----- Original Message ----- >From: "John Ramsey" To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Sun, 20 Dec 2009 13:08:05 -0500 >Subject: Re: [blindlaw] DVA DisputeResolutionProgramManagerBreachesConfidentiality >Dan and Katherine, >Do you want your personal contact information posted to this list? >John A. Ramsey Jr., Esq. >Gainesville, FL 32609 >(352) 505-6642 >This communication contains information that may be confidential and/or >legally privileged. It is intended only for the use of the individual or >entity to which it is addressed. If you have received this communication in >error, please call us at (352) 505-6642 and destroy any associated printed >materials and delete the electronic material from any computer. Please be >aware that any unauthorized disclosure, use or publication of this >communication or the information it contains may result in criminal and/or >civil liability. Due to this message being transmitted over the Internet, >John Ramsey cannot assure that the messages are secure. If you are >uncomfortable with such risks, you may decide not to use email to >communicate with John Ramsey. Please contact us immediately at (352) >505-6642 if you decide not to use email. You must also be aware that email >messages may be delayed or undelivered through circumstances beyond our >control. Thank you. >-----Original Message----- >From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >Behalf Of Cathryn Bonnette >Sent: Sunday, December 20, 2009 10:52 AM >To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' >Subject: Re: [blindlaw] DVA Dispute >ResolutionProgramManagerBreachesConfidentiality >Dan: >I thoroughly enjoyed talking with you today. Thanks much for your time and >listening ear. My contact details follow. >Please use home contacts first: >Home e-mail: cathrynisfinally at verizon.net >Hone phone: 703-553-0477 >Work contacts are not preferred at present, but here's the info: Office >e-mail: Cathryn.bonnette at va.gov Office phone: 202-461-0513 Feel free to >share with Fred S. as we discussed. >Also, my plan is to e-mail my atty re: 1) contacting Jim Moran, and 2) >trying other political moves such as Christine Griffin, NFB, and/or the >media. >OK, Dan, be well, and enjoy the blizzard!!!!!! >-----Original Message----- >From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >Behalf of Dan Frye >Sent: Friday, December 18, 2009 9:27 PM >To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >Subject: Re: [blindlaw] DVA Dispute >ResolutionProgramManagerBreachesConfidentiality >Kathryn: >My contact details are below. Please call over the weekend. >Reaching me on my mobile will be easiest, but my home number is >also (410) 243-1818. I have a chapter meeting in the morning, >but I will be otherwise free. >Daniel B. Frye >Office: (410) 659-9314, Ext 2208 >Mobile: (410) 241-7006 >Note: This message has been issued remotely from the BrailleNote. >> ----- Original Message ----- >>From: "Cathryn Bonnette" >To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >Fri, 18 Dec 2009 15:50:04 -0500 >>Subject: Re: [blindlaw] DVA Dispute Resolution >ProgramManagerBreachesConfidentiality >>Dan: >>Thanks for responding. I found your e-mail, but not a phone #. >If you are >>open to discussing- my # is 703-553-0477. Interested to hear >your input. >>Cathryn >>-----Original Message----- >>From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >[mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>Behalf Of Frye, Dan >>Sent: Friday, December 18, 2009 8:58 AM >>To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>Subject: Re: [blindlaw] DVA Dispute Resolution Program >>ManagerBreachesConfidentiality >>Cathryn: >>During my years as a Federal employee (I'm no longer serving in >this >>capacity), I served as a union representative. Consequently, I >have a >>variety of experiences that I can share with you that could prove >>helpful in resolving your situation. Give me a call or write >privately >>(my contact details are below) if you wish to communicate. In >the >>interim, follow your current course of action. Get your appeal >filed, >>continue doing your job, document your efforts at resolution, and >>minimize your verbal, undocumented communication with your >manager to >>instances of absolute necessity and preferably limit conversation >with >>her to circumstances in the presence of reliable others. Stay >strong >>while you're fighting the system because you're always at a >disadvantage >>if somebody with authority over you has decided to target your >>performance. You either have to make your way through the >process of >>acquitting yourself or decide to leave. If you've chosen to try >and >>stay, you seem to be doing what you must. Finally, begin >discretely >>looking for other employment opportunities so that you have >options if >>matters become intolerable or a decision on the merits of your >EEO and >>other complaints are not favorable. I know nothing about the >substantive >>merits of your case, but these are my superficial first thoughts. >Write >>or call if You'd like to discuss this further. >>Dan Frye >>-----Original Message----- >>From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >[mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>On Behalf Of Cathryn Bonnette >>Sent: Friday, December 18, 2009 4:05 AM >>To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' >>Subject: [blindlaw] DVA Dispute Resolution Program Manager >>BreachesConfidentiality >>All: >>A sum of events follows in my federal employment. I will be very >>appreciative of ideas you may wish to offer. Thanks in advance >for your >>time. >>I've been an Alternative Dispute Resolution, ADR, Specialist at >the >>Department of Veterans Affairs, DVA for 3 years next March. I'm >>experiencing ongoing retaliation in a hostile environment, and >trying to >>tolerate it to remain employed and achieve career status. The >situation >>is now intolerable >>I was recruited into a Schedule A, (disability related hiring >>authority), and moved from California to Washington DC 3/07. I >was >>given opportunities above my grade level, GS-11, within the first >6 >>months, completed assignments successfully and promoted to GS-12 >in >>3/08. In 5/08 a manager was promoted to become my direct >supervisor. >>Days before her promotion was finalized, I asked my current boss, >the >>Deputy Assistant Secretary, DAS for a transfer since I had >experienced >>this manager's verbal abuse and discriminatory treatment from the >start >>of the application process. The DAS assured me the manager would >not >>bother me but denied my request. In the next rating period after >my >>promotion, the manager rated me as "needs improvement'". In >12/08 the >>oral threats of termination at any time began coming from the >manager >>with no guidance, counseling, etc. and I filed an >>EEO Complaint in 1/09. The manager terminated me in 2/09. I >appealed >>to >>the Secretary of VA, and his Chief of Staff, John Gingrage, >stated "We >>will make this right." The termination was reversed, but I was >placed >>back in the same office under the same manager. I was given to >>understand it was a "take it or leave it" proposition. >>I resumed work but the same pattern continued with the set up for >>failure >>becoming more blatant. I hired Gebhardt and Assoc. to >represent me in >>the >>EEO process. As my complaint moved to the formal stage, the >manager >>placed me on a Plan to Improve Performance, PIP in 7/09, required >me to >>change software from what I had used, and team members continued >to use, >>increased my work load and added unfamiliar assignments . The >manager >>also designated an incompetent reader/sighted assistance and has >ignored >>all my communications of ineffective reasonable accommodation. >11/09 she >>reported I failed the PIP and proposed my removal. >>We are preparing a response given a deadline of 12/24/09. >>Yesterday as the manager and I discussed my assignments and I >asked for >>clarification on a change to my performance standard she made >lest week >>that ensures my failure, the ombudsman walked into the meeting >and I >>agreed to spend 15 minutes articulating the issue to him. At >that point >>the manager said, "Well, I don't think I'm speaking out of turn, >but- >>"and proceeded to disclose that I was on a PIP, had failed the >PIP, and >>she had proposed my removal. I have never discussed my personnel >>history with team members or other employees. I confronted the >manager >>with the breach of my confidential records and observed as she >>rationalized her conduct stating that the ombudsman is acting to >resolve >>a dispute, and the information was relevant to him- as though >discussion >>of any performance question with this manager must include the >ombudsman >>and my agreement to meet with him a few minutes gave the manager >license >>to disclose my confidential record. >>I was unable to concentrate on work due to my own experience of >shock >>and the manager's continued oral harassment as she repeatedly >entered my >>office through the remainder of the day. I guess the only way to >get >>away from her is to take sick leave today and Monday to >determine next >>steps. I am very close to achieving career status- March 5 2010. >I >>believe this manager intends to ensure I never accomplish it, and >that >>her determination to be rid of me is of utmost importance to her. >>Meanwhile it is difficult for me to decide a best course to take >at >>present. >>Again, thanks for listening. >>Cathryn Bonnette (cathrynisfinally at verizon.net) >>_______________________________________________ >>blindlaw mailing list >>blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >for >>blindlaw: >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dfrye%4 >0nfb.or >>g >>_______________________________________________ >>blindlaw mailing list >>blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >for >>blindlaw: >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cathryn >isfinally%4 >>0verizon.net >>No virus found in this incoming message. >>Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>Version: 8.5.427 / Virus Database: 270.14.105/2562 - Release >Date: 12/18/09 >>07:35:00 >>_______________________________________________ >>blindlaw mailing list >>blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >for blindlaw: >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dfrye%4 >0nfb.org >_______________________________________________ >blindlaw mailing list >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >blindlaw: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cathryn isfinally%4 >0verizon.net >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >Version: 8.5.427 / Virus Database: 270.14.105/2562 - Release Date: 12/18/09 >07:35:00 >_______________________________________________ >blindlaw mailing list >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >blindlaw: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joramse y%40cox.net >_______________________________________________ >blindlaw mailing list >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dfrye%4 0nfb.org _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joramsey%40cox.net _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cathrynisfinally%4 0verizon.net No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.427 / Virus Database: 270.14.115/2577 - Release Date: 12/20/09 07:35:00 From william.odonnell1 at yahoo.com Tue Dec 22 16:47:46 2009 From: william.odonnell1 at yahoo.com (William ODonnell) Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2009 08:47:46 -0800 (PST) Subject: [blindlaw] (no subject) Message-ID: <59054.97169.qm@web30905.mail.mud.yahoo.com> forwarded message below: From: Albert J Rizzi Date: Tuesday, December 22, 2009, 11:11 AM “It is a terrible thing to see and have no vision.  “ - Helen Keller   Dear friend,   With the Holidays already upon us, perhaps you would like to help me share a little blind faith, vision and good will by helping My Blind Spot advance its mission of equality and accessibility for all.   This year brings many reasons for me to be thankful and for taking this moment to make this request for a pledge from you and anyone whom you think would like to affect a national shift in the perspectives on blindness.    After living life for the past 4 years completely blind, I can tell you wholeheartedly that I consider my new way of seeing life as a gift to be shared and looked at by one and all.  For too many years, we have all turned a blind eye, myself included, to people living with the types of sensory loss which strike fear to the core of our being. I have learned that blindness itself is not my major limitation. The hardest part of being blind is the emotional and physical barriers put there by others.        What have we accomplished so far? Well, due in great part to the strength and determination I drew from you all, I was able to be the best I could be in this new and exciting way I view life.   My Blind Spot was incorporated in March and approved as a formal 501c3 this past September.  In  November we received blessings in the form of a grant from the Chatlos Foundation’s President, William Chatlos. His gift is very meaningful because he is a man who happens to be blind and is also redefining blindness and has been doing so since 1970!    Then too, we were given a swanky Manhattan address from members of our board, Jim Brock and Ted Locke, and presently we have 6 committed and dedicated individuals on our board.  We also landed contracts with educational institutions in New York and have partnered with others by providing internship opportunities to young blind and sighted adults who are transitioning from school to post secondary endeavors.   Now let me make this simple request:  As you take the time to collect remembrances for your loved ones for the Holiday season,   help us make a social change of global proportions. Simply click on the link below and pledge either $5 or $10 to My Blind Spot.    Your tax-deductable donation will be used to plant the seeds of hope and opportunity and further the legislative, technological and humanitarian efforts for those of us living with blindness.   You can help eradicate the antiquated myths and misperceptions about blindness and visual impairments.   Yes, technological advancements and legislative enactments in the last 20 plus years have improved the lives of people living with blindness. But much progress is still needed to create a positive, affirming and inclusive mentality.   This year give the gift of vision and hope to those of us who see things through a different looking glass.  To give, please click on the link below. While you're there, take a moment and stroll through the site to learn more about My Blind Spot and who we are.  If you would be kind enough to share this request with your circle of friends or colleagues, it would be greatly appreciated. http://www.myblindspot.org/?q=donate   Wishing You and Yours a Happy and Healthy Holiday Season!   Albert and Doxology     Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed. CEO/Founder My Blind Spot, Inc. 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl. New York , New York   10004 www.myblindspot.org PH: 917-553-0347 Fax: 212-858-5759 "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who is doing it." Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn   -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Jobs mailing list Jobs at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/jobs_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Jobs: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/jobs_nfbnet.org/william.odonnell1%40yahoo.com -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 115657 bytes Desc: not available URL: From johnrsheehan at yahoo.com Tue Dec 22 18:21:47 2009 From: johnrsheehan at yahoo.com (John Sheehan) Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2009 10:21:47 -0800 (PST) Subject: [blindlaw] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <59054.97169.qm@web30905.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <59054.97169.qm@web30905.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <218333.46219.qm@web53803.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Are we now allowing commercials on this list? If so, I've got one too - but I had rather thought this list had other purposes, and I felt that it would inappropriate to advertise here and solicit for funds. Clarification? Fr. John R. Sheehan, SJ Chairman Xavier Society for the Blind 154 E. 23rd St NYC 10010 212 473-7800, ext 119 Help us raise money for the Xavier Society for the Blind just by searching the Internet or shopping online with GoodSearch - www.goodsearch.com - powered by Yahoo! Free for you - and money for us! Thank you. Residence: 53 E 83rd St New York, NY 10028 Room Phone: 212 606-3420 Cell: 646 853-1820 Blog: www.frjohnsj.blogspot.com ________________________________ From: William ODonnell Sent: Tue, December 22, 2009 11:47:46 AM Subject: [blindlaw] (no subject) forwarded message below: From: Albert J Rizzi Date: Tuesday, December 22, 2009, 11:11 AM “It is a terrible thing to see and have no vision. “ - Helen Keller Dear friend, With the Holidays already upon us, perhaps you would like to help me share a little blind faith, vision and good will by helping My Blind Spot advance its mission of equality and accessibility for all. This year brings many reasons for me to be thankful and for taking this moment to make this request for a pledge from you and anyone whom you think would like to affect a national shift in the perspectives on blindness. After living life for the past 4 years completely blind, I can tell you wholeheartedly that I consider my new way of seeing life as a gift to be shared and looked at by one and all. For too many years, we have all turned a blind eye, myself included, to people living with the types of sensory loss which strike fear to the core of our being. I have learned that blindness itself is not my major limitation. The hardest part of being blind is the emotional and physical barriers put there by others. What have we accomplished so far? Well, due in great part to the strength and determination I drew from you all, I was able to be the best I could be in this new and exciting way I view life. My Blind Spot was incorporated in March and approved as a formal 501c3 this past September. In November we received blessings in the form of a grant from the Chatlos Foundation’s President, William Chatlos. His gift is very meaningful because he is a man who happens to be blind and is also redefining blindness and has been doing so since 1970! Then too, we were given a swanky Manhattan address from members of our board, Jim Brock and Ted Locke, and presently we have 6 committed and dedicated individuals on our board. We also landed contracts with educational institutions in New York and have partnered with others by providing internship opportunities to young blind and sighted adults who are transitioning from school to post secondary endeavors. Now let me make this simple request: As you take the time to collect remembrances for your loved ones for the Holiday season, help us make a social change of global proportions. Simply click on the link below and pledge either $5 or $10 to My Blind Spot. Your tax-deductable donation will be used to plant the seeds of hope and opportunity and further the legislative, technological and humanitarian efforts for those of us living with blindness. You can help eradicate the antiquated myths and misperceptions about blindness and visual impairments. Yes, technological advancements and legislative enactments in the last 20 plus years have improved the lives of people living with blindness. But much progress is still needed to create a positive, affirming and inclusive mentality. This year give the gift of vision and hope to those of us who see things through a different looking glass. To give, please click on the link below. While you're there, take a moment and stroll through the site to learn more about My Blind Spot and who we are. If you would be kind enough to share this request with your circle of friends or colleagues, it would be greatly appreciated. http://www.myblindspot.org/?q=donate Wishing You and Yours a Happy and Healthy Holiday Season! Albert and Doxology Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed. CEO/Founder My Blind Spot, Inc. 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl. New York , New York 10004 www.myblindspot.org PH: 917-553-0347 Fax: 212-858-5759 "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who is doing it." Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Jobs mailing list Jobs at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/jobs_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Jobs: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/jobs_nfbnet.org/william.odonnell1%40yahoo.com From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov Tue Dec 22 19:07:14 2009 From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel) Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2009 13:07:14 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] Google Offers Legal Research for the Average Citizen-and Lawyers, Too, ABA Journal, November 18 2009 Message-ID: Link: http://www.abajournal.com/news/article/google_offers_legal_research_for_the_average_citizenand_lawyers_too Text: Google Offers Legal Research for the Average Citizen-and Lawyers, Too Nov 18, 2009 By Debra Cassens Weiss Google has announced it is adding a new search function that will find full-text legal opinions from federal and state courts. Users can go to the Google Scholar online search engine and type in case names, topics or key words to find the relevant cases. "We think this addition to Google Scholar will empower the average citizen by helping everyone learn more about the laws that govern us all," Google says in an announcement posted at TaxProf Blog. Researchers can try an "advanced scholar" search link that narrows searches to opinions in specific states, according to the Supreme Court of Texas Blog. Users can also specify whether they want to search for "all of the words," an exact phrase, or at least one of the words. They can also add date and author restrictions. Case law goes back about 80 years for federal cases and more than 50 years for state cases, according to Information Today Inc. The opinions will have "cited by" and "related articles" links that take readers to other opinions and articles that will help them understand the information. But there is no citator service that flags when an opinion is overruled or called into question. The Supreme Court of Texas Blog says the new search option is "quite polished and looks like it might be usable for serious legal work." Josh Blackman's Blog is also impressed with the results. "Extremely quick, efficient, and free," the blog says. "And it doesn't just link to FindLaw or Cornell. It actually has an original, full text version. I just entered in a few key Supreme Court cases, and a few prominent circuit cases, and they were all in Google. Pretty cool." There are some shortcomings, however, according to the story by Information Today Inc. "This product is not going to put Lexis or Westlaw out of business," Carol Ebbinghouse, law library director at the California 2nd District Court of Appeals, writes for the blog. "These files do not cover the time dating from the beginning of our country, nor to the beginnings of the individual states." Ebbinghouse notes that although there are hyperlinks within cases to other opinions, hyperlinks to other materials are not there. "There are no hyperlinks to statutes, codes, regulations, administrative opinions, or anything else quoted or referred to in the text of the opinions," she says. "Finally, there is no citator service to verify that a particular opinion has not been overruled or vacated, distinguished, or otherwise declared of dubious value." From jim at knfbreader.com Tue Dec 22 21:37:14 2009 From: jim at knfbreader.com (James Gashel) Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2009 15:37:14 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] More phones and trial version now supported by KNFB Reader Mobile Message-ID: From: James Gashel [mailto:jim at knfbreader.com] Sent: Tuesday, December 22, 2009 12:45 PM To: Reader users list (reader-users at nfbnet.org) Subject: More phones and trial version now supported All -- Please see the notice below which announces a new release of the Mobile Reader software. This release is limited to adding support for several additional Nokia phones and to allow use of a trial license for a 14 day free evaluation period. This release does not include other new features, such as color recognition and glare detection, which have been discussed and are still being developed. Please note that installation of the release announced below is not considered necessary to replace version 6.1.11 since new functionality for the Mobile Reader itself is not being added. NOTICE OF NEW SUPPORTED PHONES AND TRIAL VERSION NOW AVAILABLE This notice is being distributed to announce two important developments intended to make K-NFB Reading Technology's Mobile Reader products more widely available throughout the United States and around the world. These changes have also required a new release, version 6.3.1, of the Mobile Reader software now available for download at knfbreader.com. Please note that this release does not contain new features or functionality aside from supporting additional phones and allowing the software to operate for a time-limited trial period. Therefore, installation of this version is not considered necessary for current users. NEW SUPPORTED PHONES The phones now supported with the initial release of version 6.3.1 are the Nokia E71 (best used with the kReader Mobile), N79, N82, N85, N86, N95 8 GB, N95 North American model, and the Nokia 6220 Classic. Please note that changes in phone models and availability must be expected. However, phones which become unavailable from suppliers will continue to be supported for use with the Mobile Reader software when changes are made to support newer phones and models which become available. This applies at present to the N82 and the 6220 Classic. For more information on each of these devices please visit our supported phones web page at http://www.knfbreader.com/phone_info.php This page includes important information about each supported phone as well as links to obtain detailed specifications. Please check back periodically to keep up to date as more phones are added to the list. Checking with various suppliers for availability and price is recommended. TRIAL VERSION We have been asked to create a means for trying out either the kReader Mobile or the knfbReader Mobile before making a purchasing decision, which is now possible with version 6.3.1. The trial is a full version of the kReader Mobile or the knfbReader Mobile, whichever is chosen, but the activation period is limited to 14 days. The procedures used to install and activate the trial version are identical to the purchased product, but a special trial license must be obtained from an authorized Mobile Reader dealer http://knfbreader.com/purchase.php or from K-NFB Reading Technology's technical support service by email at: support at knfbreader.com or by phone at: (877) 547-1500. Best Regards, James Gashel Vice President of Business Development K-NFB Reading Technology, Inc. Direct phone: (720) 878-4248 Fax: (781) 263-9999 Skype: james.gashel email: jim at knfbreader.com http://www.knfbreader.com From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov Tue Dec 22 21:48:10 2009 From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel) Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2009 15:48:10 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] Goal of New ABA Web Effort: All the Federal Decisions that Are Fit to Print, ABA Journal, November 17 2009 Message-ID: Link: http://www.abajournal.com/news/article/goal_of_new_aba_website_all_the_federal_decisions_that_are_fit_to_print Text: Goal of New ABA Web Effort: All the Federal Decisions that Are Fit to Print Posted Nov 17, 2009 By Debra Cassens Weiss Want to know more about a 9th Circuit opinion on the First Amendment rights of a citizen ejected from a city council meeting for giving a Nazi salute? Or the 5th Circuit opinion allowing a Halliburton employee to sue over her alleged rape in Iraq? You can find those opinions summarized on a revamped Media Alerts on Federal Courts of Appeals page on ABAnet.org. Students and professors at four law schools are choosing the opinions most likely to be of interest to journalists and the public for the pilot project, sponsored by the ABA Standing Committee on Federal Judicial Improvements. The pilot project, which officially launches on Wednesday, now covers the U.S. Courts of Appeals for the 3rd, 5th and 9th Circuits. The plan is to eventually add all of the circuits. Judge M. Margaret McKeown of the 9th Circuit, a special adviser to the project, says the idea for the special coverage of the circuits grew out of some discussions between judges and journalists at a meeting at the First Amendment Center earlier this year. About 60,000 cases are filed every year in the federal courts of appeals, McKeown told the ABA Journal. "Most courts have very good websites, but there is a lot of information out there, so this provides a special niche," she says. "There is a certain needle-in-the-haystack element for someone to go through them every day in every jurisdiction of interest to find cases." "Our view is that fair and accurate reporting about the courts is important, both for the public and also in order to emphasize judicial independence," says McKeown, whose three-year term as chair of the ABA Standing Committee on Federal Judicial Improvements ended in August. Law schools working on the project are the University of Texas School of Law, Temple University Beasley School of Law, the University of Arizona James E. Rogers College of Law, and the University of San Diego School of Law. UT law professor Stefanie Lindquist says each law school is making its own decisions on how the work gets done. At UT, Lindquist is supervising five students this semester and seven next semester who are doing the work as part of a pass-fail class she is teaching. Students had to apply for the class, and Lindquist decided which ones made the cut. One of the students is a former Dallas Morning News reporter; others are on law review or will be going on to federal clerkships. Lindquist and another professor handle the final edits. "It's a wonderful teaching opportunity in the law school and a wonderful opportunity to publicize information about the courts," Lindquist told the ABA Journal. Students are trying to keep legalese to a minimum, and are scouring the decisions for parties and subjects likely to be of interest. Sometimes, she admits, the law can be pretty complicated, and the issues "incredibly varied in terms of topics and substantive areas." "It's actually not as easy as I thought originally," Lindquist says. "It's fun, though-it's challenging and fun." From rthomas at rjtlawfirm.com Tue Dec 22 23:41:32 2009 From: rthomas at rjtlawfirm.com (Russell J. Thomas, Jr.) Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2009 15:41:32 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] Goal of New ABA Web Effort: All the Federal Decisions that Are Fit to Print, ABA Journal, November 17 2009 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <85890A75AE7846048EC9542B1F518CC9@RThomas> This sounds good in theory, but it is probably virtually useless in practice. Those cases thought to be "newsworthy" or possessing some type of "sex appeal" in the public mind, are usually not the kinds of cases we will be interested in the day-to-day, nuts-and-bolts aspects of our respective practices. I read a sample of a one-day of output from this project and I was not impressed. We can put this in the "something is better than nothing" category. Respectfully, Russell J. Thomas, Jr. THOMAS & ASSOCIATES www.californiaemployersattorneys.com Orange County Office 4121 Westerly Place, Suite 101 Newport Beach, California 92660 T: (949) 752-0101 F: (949) 257-4756 M: (949) 466-7238 Beverly Hills Office 9107 Wilshire Boulevard, Suite 450 Beverly Hills, California 90210 T: (310) 461-3561 -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Nightingale, Noel Sent: Tuesday, December 22, 2009 1:48 PM To: 'blindlaw at nfbnet.org' Subject: [blindlaw] Goal of New ABA Web Effort: All the Federal Decisions that Are Fit to Print, ABA Journal, November 17 2009 Link: http://www.abajournal.com/news/article/goal_of_new_aba_website_all_the_feder al_decisions_that_are_fit_to_print Text: Goal of New ABA Web Effort: All the Federal Decisions that Are Fit to Print Posted Nov 17, 2009 By Debra Cassens Weiss Want to know more about a 9th Circuit opinion on the First Amendment rights of a citizen ejected from a city council meeting for giving a Nazi salute? Or the 5th Circuit opinion allowing a Halliburton employee to sue over her alleged rape in Iraq? You can find those opinions summarized on a revamped Media Alerts on Federal Courts of Appeals page on ABAnet.org. Students and professors at four law schools are choosing the opinions most likely to be of interest to journalists and the public for the pilot project, sponsored by the ABA Standing Committee on Federal Judicial Improvements. The pilot project, which officially launches on Wednesday, now covers the U.S. Courts of Appeals for the 3rd, 5th and 9th Circuits. The plan is to eventually add all of the circuits. Judge M. Margaret McKeown of the 9th Circuit, a special adviser to the project, says the idea for the special coverage of the circuits grew out of some discussions between judges and journalists at a meeting at the First Amendment Center earlier this year. About 60,000 cases are filed every year in the federal courts of appeals, McKeown told the ABA Journal. "Most courts have very good websites, but there is a lot of information out there, so this provides a special niche," she says. "There is a certain needle-in-the-haystack element for someone to go through them every day in every jurisdiction of interest to find cases." "Our view is that fair and accurate reporting about the courts is important, both for the public and also in order to emphasize judicial independence," says McKeown, whose three-year term as chair of the ABA Standing Committee on Federal Judicial Improvements ended in August. Law schools working on the project are the University of Texas School of Law, Temple University Beasley School of Law, the University of Arizona James E. Rogers College of Law, and the University of San Diego School of Law. UT law professor Stefanie Lindquist says each law school is making its own decisions on how the work gets done. At UT, Lindquist is supervising five students this semester and seven next semester who are doing the work as part of a pass-fail class she is teaching. Students had to apply for the class, and Lindquist decided which ones made the cut. One of the students is a former Dallas Morning News reporter; others are on law review or will be going on to federal clerkships. Lindquist and another professor handle the final edits. "It's a wonderful teaching opportunity in the law school and a wonderful opportunity to publicize information about the courts," Lindquist told the ABA Journal. Students are trying to keep legalese to a minimum, and are scouring the decisions for parties and subjects likely to be of interest. Sometimes, she admits, the law can be pretty complicated, and the issues "incredibly varied in terms of topics and substantive areas." "It's actually not as easy as I thought originally," Lindquist says. "It's fun, though-it's challenging and fun." _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rthomas%40rjtlawfi rm.com From dandrews at visi.com Wed Dec 23 03:31:01 2009 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2009 21:31:01 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <59054.97169.qm@web30905.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <59054.97169.qm@web30905.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: This message is inappropriate and off topic for this list! David Andrews, List Owner At 10:47 AM 12/22/2009, William ODonnell wrote: >forwarded message below: >From: Albert J Rizzi > >Date: Tuesday, December 22, 2009, 11:11 AM > > > > > > > > >“It is a terrible thing to see and have no vision.  “ - Helen Keller > >Dear friend, > >With the Holidays already upon us, perhaps you >would like to help me share a little blind >faith, vision and good will by helping My Blind >Spot advance its mission of equality and accessibility for all. > >This year brings many reasons for me to be >thankful and for taking this moment to make this >request for a pledge from you and anyone whom >you think would like to affect a national shift >in the perspectives on blindness. > >After living life for the past 4 years >completely blind, I can tell you wholeheartedly >that I consider my new way of seeing life as a >gift to be shared and looked at by one and >all. For too many years, we have all turned a >blind eye, myself included, to people living >with the types of sensory loss which strike fear >to the core of our being. I have learned that >blindness itself is not my major limitation. The >hardest part of being blind is the emotional and >physical barriers put there by others.  > > >What have we accomplished so far? Well, due in >great part to the strength and determination I >drew from you all, I was able to be the best I >could be in this new and exciting way I view >life.  My Blind Spot was incorporated in >March and approved as a formal 501c3 this past >September. In November we received blessings >in the form of a grant from the Chatlos >Foundation’s President, William Chatlos. His >gift is very meaningful because he is a man who >happens to be blind and is also redefining >blindness and has been doing so since 1970!  > Then too, we were given a swanky Manhattan >address from members of our board, Jim Brock and >Ted Locke, and presently we have 6 committed and >dedicated individuals on our board. We also >landed contracts with educational institutions in New York and have > partnered with others by providing internship > opportunities to young blind and sighted adults > who are transitioning from school to post secondary endeavors. > >Now let me make this simple request: As you >take the time to collect remembrances for your >loved ones for the Holiday season,  help us >make a social change of global proportions. >Simply click on the link below and pledge either >$5 or $10 to My Blind Spot.   Your >tax-deductable donation will be used to plant >the seeds of hope and opportunity and further >the legislative, technological and humanitarian >efforts for those of us living with blindness. > You can help eradicate the antiquated myths >and misperceptions about blindness and visual impairments. > >Yes, technological advancements and legislative >enactments in the last 20 plus years have >improved the lives of people living with >blindness. But much progress is still needed to >create a positive, affirming and inclusive mentality. > >This year give the gift of vision and hope to >those of us who see things through a different >looking glass. To give, please click on the >link below. While you're there, take a moment >and stroll through the site to learn more about >My Blind Spot and who we are. If you would be >kind enough to share this request with your >circle of friends or colleagues, it would be greatly appreciated. >http://www.myblindspot.org/?q=donate > >Wishing You and Yours a Happy and Healthy Holiday Season! > >Albert and Doxology > > >Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed. >CEO/Founder >My Blind Spot, Inc. >90 Broad Street - 18th Fl. >New York , New York  10004 >www.myblindspot.org >PH: 917-553-0347 >Fax: 212-858-5759 >"The person who says it cannot be done, >shouldn't interrupt the one who is doing it." >Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn > >-----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > >_______________________________________________ >Jobs mailing list >Jobs at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/jobs_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Jobs: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/jobs_nfbnet.org/william.odonnell1%40yahoo.com > > > >__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, >version of virus signature database 4710 (20091222) __________ > >The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > >http://www.eset.com > > > >_______________________________________________ >blindlaw mailing list >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >your account info for blindlaw: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40visi.com From dandrews at visi.com Wed Dec 23 03:31:45 2009 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2009 21:31:45 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <218333.46219.qm@web53803.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <59054.97169.qm@web30905.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <218333.46219.qm@web53803.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: The message shouldn't have been sent here. David Andrews, List Owner At 12:21 PM 12/22/2009, you wrote: >Are we now allowing commercials on this list? If >so, I've got one too - but I had rather thought >this list had other purposes, and I felt that it >would inappropriate to advertise here and >solicit for funds. Clarification? Fr. John R. >Sheehan, SJ Chairman Xavier Society for the >Blind 154 E. 23rd St NYC 10010 212 473-7800, ext >119 Help us raise money for the Xavier Society >for the Blind just by searching the Internet or >shopping online with GoodSearch - >www.goodsearch.com - powered by Yahoo! Free for >you - and money for us! Thank you. Residence: 53 >E 83rd St New York, NY 10028 Room Phone: 212 >606-3420 Cell: 646 853-1820 Blog: >www.frjohnsj.blogspot.com >________________________________ From: William >ODonnell Sent: >Tue, December 22, 2009 11:47:46 AM Subject: >[blindlaw] (no subject) forwarded message below: >From: Albert J Rizzi >Date: Tuesday, December 22, 2009, 11:11 AM “It >is a terrible thing to see and have no >vision. “ - Helen Keller Dear friend, With >the Holidays already upon us, perhaps you would >like to help me share a little blind faith, >vision and good will by helping My Blind Spot >advance its mission of equality and >accessibility for all. This year brings many >reasons for me to be thankful and for taking >this moment to make this request for a pledge >from you and anyone whom you think would like to >affect a national shift in the perspectives on >blindness. After living life for the past 4 >years completely blind, I can tell you >wholeheartedly that I consider my new way of >seeing life as a gift to be shared and looked at >by one and all. For too many years, we have all >turned a blind eye, myself included, to people >living with the types of sensory loss which >strike fear to the core of our being. I have >learned that blindness itself is not my major >limitation. The hardest part of being blind is >the emotional and physical barriers put there by >others. What have we accomplished so far? >Well, due in great part to the strength and >determination I drew from you all, I was able to >be the best I could be in this new and exciting >way I view life. My Blind Spot was >incorporated in March and approved as a formal >501c3 this past September. In November we >received blessings in the form of a grant from >the Chatlos Foundation’s President, William >Chatlos. His gift is very meaningful because he >is a man who happens to be blind and is also >redefining blindness and has been doing so since >1970! Then too, we were given a swanky >Manhattan address from members of our board, Jim >Brock and Ted Locke, and presently we have 6 >committed and dedicated individuals on our >board. We also landed contracts with >educational institutions in New York and have >partnered with others by providing internship >opportunities to young blind and sighted adults >who are transitioning from school to post >secondary endeavors. Now let me make this simple >request: As you take the time to collect >remembrances for your loved ones for the Holiday >season, help us make a social change of global >proportions. Simply click on the link below and >pledge either $5 or $10 to My Blind >Spot. Your tax-deductable donation will be >used to plant the seeds of hope and opportunity >and further the legislative, technological and >humanitarian efforts for those of us living with >blindness. You can help eradicate the >antiquated myths and misperceptions about >blindness and visual impairments. Yes, >technological advancements and legislative >enactments in the last 20 plus years have >improved the lives of people living with >blindness. But much progress is still needed to >create a positive, affirming and inclusive >mentality. This year give the gift of vision From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov Thu Dec 24 19:24:58 2009 From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel) Date: Thu, 24 Dec 2009 13:24:58 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] FW: Deputy Director Legal Recruitment Ad Message-ID: ________________________________ From: jobs-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:jobs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Maurer, Patricia Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 1:13 PM To: jobs at nfbnet.org Subject: [Jobs] FW: Deputy Director Legal Recruitment Ad ________________________________ From: Hunter, Sue [mailto:Sue.Hunter at usdoj.gov] Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 3:24 PM To: noconnell at tabinc.org; noryrp at cox.net; nromulus at gmail.com; ntb at boglechang.com; nwpatton at law.stanford.edu; ocaaba at cox.net; omanager at lawyerscomm.org; palsd at hotmail.com; patel at fr.com; pchanster at yahoo.com; pchapman at koonz.com; pgrewal at daycasebeer.com; pkim at lordbissell.com; Maurer, Patricia; pmorrison at state.wv.us; poppy.johnston at unlv.edu; president at abaw.org; president at adc.org; president at apabala.org; president at blackwomenlawyersla.org; president at dominicanbarassociation.org; president at mabl.org; president at msba.org; president at phillybarristers.org; president at sabasc.org; president at southasianbar.org; rbreiter at law.miami.edu; rcohen at sra.state.md.us; recruiting at uchastings.edu; rfhagans at cox.net; rharnais at mahaweb.org; Rhonda_Harjo at indian.senate.gov; richard at ffbanc.org; rlindsey at law.gwu.edu; rqharr at wm.edu; rsheen at fccila.net Subject: Deputy Director Legal Recruitment Ad To learn more about our attorneys and what they like most about working at DOJ, please visit our attorney profiles at, http://www.usdoj.gov/oarm/arm/profiles.htm, and the video clips of our attorneys and interns available at https://www.avuedigitalservices.com/ads/jobsatdojoarm/index.jsp We encourage you to share this email with interested colleagues and peers. If you no longer wish to receive these periodic email announcements, please respond to this email address and ask to be removed from our mailing list. Thank you. <> The purpose of this email is to advise potential interested persons of employment opportunities at the Department of Justice. The Department of Justice cannot control further dissemination and/or posting of this information. Such posting and/or dissemination is not an endorsement by the Department of the organization or group disseminating and/or posting the information. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Depty Director Legal Recruitment.wpd Type: application/octet-stream Size: 34683 bytes Desc: Depty Director Legal Recruitment.wpd URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Jobs mailing list Jobs at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/jobs_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Jobs: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/jobs_nfbnet.org/noel.nightingale%40ed.gov From joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com Mon Dec 28 01:14:42 2009 From: joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com (RJ Sandefur) Date: Sun, 27 Dec 2009 20:14:42 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] PDF file Message-ID: <001501ca875b$24b4e8d0$0302a8c0@hometwxakonvzn> Does any one know of a good OCR I as a blind person can use for these types of files? RJ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 4uvwlm45ho2rbi45hbl3zl55[1].pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 6941730 bytes Desc: not available URL: From joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com Mon Dec 28 12:39:01 2009 From: joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com (RJ Sandefur) Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2009 07:39:01 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] testing Message-ID: <002d01ca87ba$bc237e70$0302a8c0@hometwxakonvzn> Testing this out. RJ From joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com Mon Dec 28 15:00:51 2009 From: joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com (RJ Sandefur) Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2009 10:00:51 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] question Message-ID: <005c01ca87ce$8e6be990$0302a8c0@hometwxakonvzn> Does any one know of an OCR program for PDFS which have been scaned? My email address is: joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com RJ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 4uvwlm45ho2rbi45hbl3zl55[1].pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 6941730 bytes Desc: not available URL: From joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com Mon Dec 28 15:25:59 2009 From: joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com (RJ Sandefur) Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2009 10:25:59 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] qiestion Message-ID: <000701ca87d2$11748010$0302a8c0@hometwxakonvzn> Does any one know of a good OCR that can read these types of files? My email is joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com RJ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 4uvwlm45ho2rbi45hbl3zl55[1].pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 6941730 bytes Desc: not available URL: From almomani at optonline.net Tue Dec 29 00:42:41 2009 From: almomani at optonline.net (Mudhaffer Al-Momani) Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2009 19:42:41 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] PDF file References: <001501ca875b$24b4e8d0$0302a8c0@hometwxakonvzn> Message-ID: Hi This is what I do Open the PDF file the print it out by pressing control P then choose vertual printer if you have Kersweil on your computer then hit enter. It will open it in Kersweil then you can read it or save it as a word document. Good luck Mudhaffer ----- Original Message ----- From: "RJ Sandefur" To: Sent: Sunday, December 27, 2009 8:14 PM Subject: [blindlaw] PDF file > Does any one know of a good OCR I as a blind person can use for these > types of files? RJ > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/almomani%40optonline.net > From dnepple at hotmail.com Tue Dec 29 02:05:38 2009 From: dnepple at hotmail.com (don nepple) Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2009 20:05:38 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] testing In-Reply-To: <002d01ca87ba$bc237e70$0302a8c0@hometwxakonvzn> References: <002d01ca87ba$bc237e70$0302a8c0@hometwxakonvzn> Message-ID: got your email good job.don frum idaho. > From: joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com > To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org > Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2009 07:39:01 -0500 > Subject: [blindlaw] testing > > Testing this out. RJ > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dnepple%40hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222986/direct/01/ From cjmc404 at gmail.com Tue Dec 29 06:13:49 2009 From: cjmc404 at gmail.com (cory McMahon) Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2009 00:13:49 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] testing References: <002d01ca87ba$bc237e70$0302a8c0@hometwxakonvzn> Message-ID: Message received. Cory ----- Original Message ----- From: "RJ Sandefur" To: Sent: Monday, December 28, 2009 6:39 AM Subject: [blindlaw] testing > Testing this out. RJ > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cjmc404%40gmail.com From dandrews at visi.com Tue Dec 29 06:25:47 2009 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2009 00:25:47 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] PDF file In-Reply-To: <001501ca875b$24b4e8d0$0302a8c0@hometwxakonvzn> References: <001501ca875b$24b4e8d0$0302a8c0@hometwxakonvzn> Message-ID: This list is not a technology list, but for discussion of blindness and the law. Dave At 07:14 PM 12/27/2009, you wrote: >Does any one know of a good OCR I as a blind person can use for >these types of files? RJ > > >__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus >signature database 4723 (20091228) __________ > >The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > >http://www.eset.com > > > >_______________________________________________ >blindlaw mailing list >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >for blindlaw: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40visi.com From deepa.goraya at gmail.com Tue Dec 29 08:58:36 2009 From: deepa.goraya at gmail.com (Deepa Goraya) Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2009 03:58:36 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] a friend in need of a lawyer Message-ID: Hello List, My friend Angela Garey is battling in court for custody over her son. She is almost totally blind and so far the court has only granted her visitation rights and has given full custody to the father who is sighted. She is due back in court in mid January and cannot afford a lawyer. The father, however, has an attorney. Is there anyone in southern California who can take her case or does anyone know of any attorneys who can? Her case will take place in Riverside. Please contact me for more info. Thanks so much, Deepa Goraya From stiehm.law at juno.com Tue Dec 29 14:43:24 2009 From: stiehm.law at juno.com (stiehm.law) Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2009 09:43:24 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] PDF file Message-ID: <20091229.064330.428.140252@mailpop05.vgs.untd.com> Is there a technology list and how does one subscribe? Patrick H. Stiehm Stiehm Law Office Alexandria, VA 22309 703-360-1089 (Voice) 703-935-8266 (Fax) On Tue, 29 Dec 2009 00:25:47 -0600 David Andrews writes: > This list is not a technology list, but for discussion of blindness > and the law. > > Dave > > At 07:14 PM 12/27/2009, you wrote: > >Does any one know of a good OCR I as a blind person can use for > >these types of files? RJ > > ____________________________________________________________ Diet Help Cheap Diet Help Tips. Click here. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/c?cp=pMGT45yQb0F_5_YcCzr7ZwAAJ1BdROy9vkzpR6E_Fj7jZTbnAAYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYQAAAAAA= From DFrye at nfb.org Tue Dec 29 15:02:25 2009 From: DFrye at nfb.org (Frye, Dan) Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2009 10:02:25 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] 2010 Jacobus tenBroek Law Symposium Announcement Message-ID: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6B01D40407@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local> List Colleagues: Lou Ann Blake, the NFB's Jacobus tenBroek Law Symposium coordinator, has asked that I post the following announcement about the 2010 expanded event here. We do seem able to attract a high caliber of participants to this event, which seems to have become an annual affair within the legal disability community. She urges as many as are able and inclined from this list to make plans to participate in this function during the spring. The announcement is pasted below in the text of this message and is also attached for your reference and for further distribution. Thank you. The announcement follows: Assistant Attorney General for Civil Rights Tom Perez and Former Congressman Tony Coelho are Keynote Speakers for the 2010 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium Equality, Difference, and the Right to Live in the World April 15-16, 2010 at the National Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute Baltimore, Maryland Assistant Attorney General for Civil Rights Tom Perez and former Congressman Tony Coelho head the list of distinguished law professors, practitioners, and advocates who will discuss the concepts of equality and difference as they relate to the disabled in employment, education, medical treatment, and access to technology. With an expanded format to incorporate workshops, the 2010 symposium will provide more time for discussion, collaboration, and networking. 2010 plenary session presenters: * Adrienne Asch, Director, Center for Ethics, Yeshiva University * Dan Brock, Director, Division of Medical Ethics, Harvard Medical School * Richard Brown, Chief Judge, Wisconsin Court of Appeals * David Ferleger, Esquire, Law Office of David Ferleger * Dan Goldstein, Partner, Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP * Andrew Imparato, President and CEO, American Association of People with Disabilities * Leslie Seid Margolis, Managing Attorney, Education Unit, Maryland Disability Law Center * Mark Weber, Vincent dePaul Professor of Law, DePaul University College of Law 2010 workshop facilitators: * Charles Brown, Director, Volunteer Lawyers for the Blind, American Action Fund for Blind Children and Adults * Ira Burnim, Legal Director, Bazelon Center for Mental Health Law * Claudia Center, Senior Staff Attorney, The Legal Aid Society Employment Law Center * Marc Charmatz, Senior Attorney, National Association of the Deaf * Robert Dinerstein, Professor of Law and Director of Clinical Programs, American University Washington College of Law * Eve Hill, Senior Vice President, Burton Blatt Institute * Sharon Krevor-Weisbaum, Partner, Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP * Christopher Kuczynski, Esquire, Equal Employment Opportunity Commission * Jennifer Mathis, Deputy Legal Director, Bazelon Center for Mental Health Law * Ruby Moore, Executive Director, Georgia Advocacy Office, Inc. * Ari Ne'eman, President, Autistic Self-Advocacy Network * Steven Schwartz, Executive Director, Center for Public Representation Documentation for CLE credits will be provided. Registration fee: $175 Student registration fee: $25 A limited number of scholarships to cover the registration fee will be available to individuals with demonstrated financial need. To learn more about the symposium and symposium sponsorship opportunities, view the agenda, and register online, please visit http://www.nfb.org/nfb/Law_Symposium.asp . You may also download from this Web site a registration form to mail or fax. Hotel information is also available on the symposium Web site. For additional information, contact: Lou Ann Blake, JD Law Symposium Coordinator Jacobus tenBroek Library Jernigan Institute NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND 200 East Wells Street at Jernigan Place Baltimore, Maryland 21230 Telephone: 410-659-9314, ext. 2221 E-mail: lblake at nfb.org *********************** Daniel B. Frye, J.D. Associate Editor The Braille Monitor National Federation of the Blind Office of the President 200 East Wells Street at Jernigan Place Baltimore, Maryland 21230 Telephone: (410) 659-9314 Ext. 2208 Mobile: (410) 241-7006 Fax: (410) 685-5653 Email: DFrye at nfb.org Web Address: www.nfb.org "Voice of the Nation's Blind" The Braille literacy crisis in America jeopardizes opportunities for blind people throughout the country. You can be part of the solution. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 2010 symposium promotional e-mail.doc Type: application/msword Size: 31744 bytes Desc: 2010 symposium promotional e-mail.doc URL: From rthomas at rjtlawfirm.com Wed Dec 30 13:33:49 2009 From: rthomas at rjtlawfirm.com (Russell J. Thomas, Jr.) Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2009 05:33:49 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] a friend in need of a lawyer In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4D7F1573307442C38F35D3C877748E67@russ> Contact the Riverside County Bar Association and see if they have a lawyer referral service, or a list of attorneys who will take cases on a pro bono basis. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Deepa Goraya Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 12:59 AM To: blindlaw Subject: [blindlaw] a friend in need of a lawyer Hello List, My friend Angela Garey is battling in court for custody over her son. She is almost totally blind and so far the court has only granted her visitation rights and has given full custody to the father who is sighted. She is due back in court in mid January and cannot afford a lawyer. The father, however, has an attorney. Is there anyone in southern California who can take her case or does anyone know of any attorneys who can? Her case will take place in Riverside. Please contact me for more info. Thanks so much, Deepa Goraya _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rthomas%40rjtlawfi rm.com From craig.borne at dot.gov Wed Dec 30 13:39:55 2009 From: craig.borne at dot.gov (craig.borne at dot.gov) Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2009 08:39:55 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Tampa, FL Area Collections Attorney Needed In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <74679E5C9A6C114F9793FAD7217A7A0CAC73AB@OSTMAIL03VS3.ad.dot.gov> Hello list, Can anyone refer to me a collections/contracts attorney in the Tampa, Florida area for some plaintiff's work? Thank you, Craig From mike.sandi at comcast.net Wed Dec 30 15:17:26 2009 From: mike.sandi at comcast.net (Mike Groat) Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2009 07:17:26 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] blindlaw Digest, Vol 67, Issue 26 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Morning all, I use Adobe Acrobat 9 to create and read PDF files. I chose it because it is fully functional with the keyboard. I like the ability to print files to the PDF format. Also there is a convert feature that allows many files to be converted to the PDF format. I use Openbook to for scanning documents into MS Word. The Openbook has the Freedom Import Printer that allows the PDF file to be printed into a text file. The screen reader, JAWS, works very well with the Acrobat 9. I have found the print to PDF feature to be very useful when printing emails in to a PDF file for saving and/or sending as an attachment to someone. I have researched other PDF creators, but they required the use of a mouse. The Adobe Acrobat 9 is available in a trial version which allows for testing for an individual's requirements. I hope that this helps. For further details, please contact me offline at mike.sandi at comcast.net Michael -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of blindlaw-request at nfbnet.org Sent: Sunday, December 27, 2009 5:17 PM To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org Subject: blindlaw Digest, Vol 67, Issue 26 Send blindlaw mailing list submissions to blindlaw at nfbnet.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to blindlaw-request at nfbnet.org You can reach the person managing the list at blindlaw-owner at nfbnet.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of blindlaw digest..." Today's Topics: 1. PDF file (RJ Sandefur) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Sun, 27 Dec 2009 20:14:42 -0500 From: "RJ Sandefur" Subject: [blindlaw] PDF file To: Message-ID: <001501ca875b$24b4e8d0$0302a8c0 at hometwxakonvzn> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Does any one know of a good OCR I as a blind person can use for these types of files? RJ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 4uvwlm45ho2rbi45hbl3zl55[1].pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 6941730 bytes Desc: not available URL: ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org End of blindlaw Digest, Vol 67, Issue 26 **************************************** From t.l.cantrell at comcast.net Wed Dec 30 19:57:41 2009 From: t.l.cantrell at comcast.net (tammy cantrell) Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2009 13:57:41 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] Intro and request for assistance Message-ID: <017101ca898a$58b17f00$b2f16b4c@ownera23efd7c3> Hello! My name is Tammy. I was referred to this list because I am trying to help a College student with a challenging problem. I do look forward to hearing your comments and suggestions. I will just copy my email that got me pointed in your direction. Thanks so much for your help! Hello! I am looking for some input on behalf of a College student. I will share her story and hopefully somebody would offer some suggestions or a resource. This student is blind and is currently working on a bachelor's degree in Political Science. Her plans are to become a lawyer. She has tried to participate in Mock Trials but has met up with problems. The professor says she can only be the witness but because she is blind she can not be the lawyer. He says since she can't quickly read through the documents, she will not be able to question the witness and present her case. This student has high expectations for herself and I hate to see her fall short of her goals because of discrimination or ignorance. I have been given permission to share her email address; soldiergirl2010 at aol.com If you would be willing to share ideas with her, it would be so very much appreciated! If you don't have ideas and know somebody that might, please pass this on to them. Your help is greatly needed. Thanks for all of your help! Smile! GOD loves you! From editor.nftb at gmail.com Wed Dec 30 19:59:09 2009 From: editor.nftb at gmail.com (Will May) Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2009 14:59:09 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] question In-Reply-To: <005c01ca87ce$8e6be990$0302a8c0@hometwxakonvzn> References: <005c01ca87ce$8e6be990$0302a8c0@hometwxakonvzn> Message-ID: I don't think OCR can work on PDF without printing out and flatbedding.... Do you need something read to you; Send it, and I will send you an MP3 of the audible verbatim transcription....Will On Mon, Dec 28, 2009 at 10:00 AM, RJ Sandefur wrote: > Does any one know of an OCR program for PDFS which have been scaned? My email address is: joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com > RJ > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/editor.nftb%40gmail.com > > From craig.borne at dot.gov Wed Dec 30 20:05:18 2009 From: craig.borne at dot.gov (craig.borne at dot.gov) Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2009 15:05:18 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] PDF file In-Reply-To: References: <001501ca875b$24b4e8d0$0302a8c0@hometwxakonvzn> Message-ID: <74679E5C9A6C114F9793FAD7217A7A0CAC7411@OSTMAIL03VS3.ad.dot.gov> RJ -- Kurzweil is expensive, if you don't already have it. The ABBYYY Fine Reader is cheaper than Kurzweil; probably around $400. If you have Adobe professional, there is an internal OCR that works pretty well. I know there are some free websites that will convert PDFs to text, but I haven't used any of these. Craig Craig Borne NHTSA/DOT (202) 493-0627 craig.borne at dot.gov ----- Original Message ----- From: "RJ Sandefur" To: Sent: Sunday, December 27, 2009 8:14 PM Subject: [blindlaw] PDF file > Does any one know of a good OCR I as a blind person can use for these > types of files? RJ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------- > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/almomani%40opt online.net > _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/craig.borne%40 dot.gov From joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com Wed Dec 30 21:21:20 2009 From: joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com (RJ Sandefur) Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2009 16:21:20 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] PDF file References: <001501ca875b$24b4e8d0$0302a8c0@hometwxakonvzn> Message-ID: <001201ca8996$085ca730$0302a8c0@hometwxakonvzn> I don't have courswall. How long does it take to print out this document on verchoal pinteral? RJ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mudhaffer Al-Momani" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Monday, December 28, 2009 7:42 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] PDF file > Hi > This is what I do > Open the PDF file the print it out by pressing control P then choose > vertual printer if you have Kersweil on your computer then hit enter. It > will open it in Kersweil then you can read it or save it as a word > document. > Good luck > Mudhaffer > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "RJ Sandefur" > To: > Sent: Sunday, December 27, 2009 8:14 PM > Subject: [blindlaw] PDF file > > >> Does any one know of a good OCR I as a blind person can use for these >> types of files? RJ >> > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/almomani%40optonline.net >> > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com From joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com Thu Dec 31 12:01:57 2009 From: joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com (RJ Sandefur) Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2009 07:01:57 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] PDF file References: <001501ca875b$24b4e8d0$0302a8c0@hometwxakonvzn> <74679E5C9A6C114F9793FAD7217A7A0CAC7411@OSTMAIL03VS3.ad.dot.gov> Message-ID: <000501ca8a11$0e18bda0$0302a8c0@hometwxakonvzn> I have abb, but am not shure how to use it. RJ ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 3:05 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] PDF file > RJ -- > > Kurzweil is expensive, if you don't already have it. The ABBYYY Fine > Reader is cheaper than Kurzweil; probably around $400. If you have > Adobe professional, there is an internal OCR that works pretty well. > > I know there are some free websites that will convert PDFs to text, but > I haven't used any of these. > > Craig > > Craig Borne > NHTSA/DOT > (202) 493-0627 > craig.borne at dot.gov > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "RJ Sandefur" > To: > Sent: Sunday, December 27, 2009 8:14 PM > Subject: [blindlaw] PDF file > > >> Does any one know of a good OCR I as a blind person can use for these >> types of files? RJ >> > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > -------- > > >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/almomani%40opt > online.net >> > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/craig.borne%40 > dot.gov > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com From joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com Thu Dec 31 14:12:29 2009 From: joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com (RJ Sandefur) Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2009 09:12:29 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Messege for will Message-ID: <000d01ca8a23$4a2ef400$0302a8c0@hometwxakonvzn> Well, What is your email adress, and I'll email the file to you. RJ From mahdighafoori at gmail.com Thu Dec 31 14:40:48 2009 From: mahdighafoori at gmail.com (Mahdi Ghafoori) Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2009 19:10:48 +0430 Subject: [blindlaw] Congratulation Message-ID: <242AB9CE51374DD7A4770EB55F571989@pc> Hello, I've just liked to send my warm congratulation for the beginning of the new year. I hope this new year is full of success and happiness for you and peace and wealth for the world. Happy new year, Sincerely, Mahdi Tehran- Iran __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4537 (20091023) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4537 (20091023) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4537 (20091023) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From rjaquiss at earthlink.net Thu Dec 31 15:17:20 2009 From: rjaquiss at earthlink.net (Robert Jaquiss) Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2009 09:17:20 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] question References: <005c01ca87ce$8e6be990$0302a8c0@hometwxakonvzn> Message-ID: Hello: I know this is a technology topic on the law list, but since attorneys deal with unique types of documents, here is a brief answer. Unreadable PDF files can be sent through Kurzweil K1000 and I think Openbook software. There is no need for print and scanning. In fact, this should be avoided since it will introduce more errors. Hope this makes sense. Happy Holidays, Robert Jaquiss, Member Committee on Research and DEvelopment National Federation of the Blind Email: rjaquiss at earthlink.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "Will May" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 1:59 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] question >I don't think OCR can work on PDF without printing out and flatbedding.... > > Do you need something read to you; Send it, and I will send you an MP3 > of the audible verbatim transcription....Will > > On Mon, Dec 28, 2009 at 10:00 AM, RJ Sandefur > wrote: >> Does any one know of an OCR program for PDFS which have been scaned? My >> email address is: joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com >> RJ >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/editor.nftb%40gmail.com >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rjaquiss%40earthlink.net From rthomas at rjtlawfirm.com Thu Dec 31 16:56:11 2009 From: rthomas at rjtlawfirm.com (Russell J. Thomas, Jr.) Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2009 08:56:11 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] question In-Reply-To: References: <005c01ca87ce$8e6be990$0302a8c0@hometwxakonvzn> Message-ID: PDF converter will do it. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Will May Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 11:59 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] question I don't think OCR can work on PDF without printing out and flatbedding.... Do you need something read to you; Send it, and I will send you an MP3 of the audible verbatim transcription....Will On Mon, Dec 28, 2009 at 10:00 AM, RJ Sandefur wrote: > Does any one know of an OCR program for PDFS which have been scaned? My email address is: joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com > RJ > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/editor.nftb%40gmai l.com > > _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rthomas%40rjtlawfi rm.com From craig.borne at dot.gov Thu Dec 31 17:10:09 2009 From: craig.borne at dot.gov (craig.borne at dot.gov) Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2009 12:10:09 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] PDF file In-Reply-To: References: <001501ca875b$24b4e8d0$0302a8c0@hometwxakonvzn> Message-ID: <74679E5C9A6C114F9793FAD7217A7A0CAC7446@OSTMAIL03VS3.ad.dot.gov> Dave, If one who is blind is to be a successful attorney, isn't the knowledge of what that individual's colleagues are doing with respect to greater access of documents on topic? This list has always been not only for the discussion of blindness and the law but a list for blind attorneys to collaborate and not reinvent the wheel. In my humble opinion, if questions related to converting legal documents sent as PDFs is off topic, then perhaps the participation by non-attorneys or non-legal professionals/law students on this list is also not appropriate? Respectfully, Craig Craig Borne, Esq. NHTSA/DOT (202) 493-0627 craig.borne at dot.gov -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of David Andrews Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 1:26 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] PDF file This list is not a technology list, but for discussion of blindness and the law. Dave At 07:14 PM 12/27/2009, you wrote: >Does any one know of a good OCR I as a blind person can use for >these types of files? RJ > > >__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus >signature database 4723 (20091228) __________ > >The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > >http://www.eset.com > > > >_______________________________________________ >blindlaw mailing list >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >for blindlaw: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40vi si.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/craig.borne%40 dot.gov From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov Thu Dec 31 17:58:13 2009 From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel) Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2009 11:58:13 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] FW: Attorney Vacancies at the U.S. Department of Justice Message-ID: ________________________________ From: jobs-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:jobs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Maurer, Patricia Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 12:39 PM To: jobs at nfbnet.org Subject: [Jobs] FW: Attorney Vacancies at the U.S. Department of Justice ________________________________ From: Hunter, Sue [mailto:Sue.Hunter at usdoj.gov] Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 2:34 PM To: mail at dallashispanicbar.com; mail at equaljusticeworks.org; mail at naicja.org; main at aabany.org; MamieLDavis at msn.com; Maricela.Siew at bakernet.com; mcalvet at morganlewis.com; mcle at vsb.org; mcox at law.miami.edu; mdalal at mhmlaw.com; mdsaa at bellatlantic.net; meiklejohns at sullcrom.com; melissa-tatum at tulsa.edu; mike at imba.com; Mikediv201 at aol.com; minorities at abanet.org; mjain at gdblegal.com; mlorenzo at graycary.com; nawl at nawl.org; ncai at ncai.org; nedy at wyjlaw.com; newmedia at ja.org; Neysas at dnfsb.gov; Maurer, Patricia Subject: FW: Attorney Vacancies at the U.S. Department of Justice To learn more about our attorneys and what they like most about working at DOJ, please visit our attorney profiles at, http://www.usdoj.gov/oarm/arm/profiles.htm, and the video clips of our attorneys and interns available at https://www.avuedigitalservices.com/ads/jobsatdojoarm/index.jsp We encourage you to share this email with interested colleagues and peers. If you no longer wish to receive these periodic email announcements, please respond to this email address and ask to be removed from our mailing list. Thank you. Current Department of Justice Attorney Vacancies * U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE OFFICE OF LEGAL POLICY EXPERIENCED ATTORNEY / GS-14/15 ANNOUNCEMENT NUMBER OLP-ATY-012 Applications must be received by December 31, 2009. Date posted: 12-24-2009 * U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE OFFICE OF LEGAL COUNSEL SEEKS EXPERIENCED ATTORNEYS TO SERVE A ONE YEAR, NON-REIMBURSABLE DETAIL All applications must be received in the Office of Legal Counsel by the close of business January 29, 2010. Date posted: 12-24-2009 * ASSISTANT UNITED STATES ATTORNEY CRIMINAL DIVISION, UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE MIDDLE DISTRICT OF TENNESSEE 10-MDTN-01 Cover letter and resume must be received by January 15, 2010. Date posted: 12-24-2009 * TRIAL ATTORNEY(GS-0905-13/14/15) PUBLIC INTEGRITY SECTION WASHINGTON, DC 09-CRM-PIN-054 Applications must be postmarked by January 14, 2010. Date posted: 12-24-2009 * FEDERAL BUREAU OF PRISONS OFFICE OF GENERAL COUNSEL LABOR LAW BRANCH ATTORNEY-ADVISOR GS-905-12/13/14 This position is open until filled, but no later than January 6, 2010. Date posted: 12-24-2009 * EXPERIENCED WHITE-COLLAR CRIMINAL ATTORNEY (GS-0905-13/14/15) FRAUD SECTION CRIMINAL DIVISION U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE WASHINGTON, DC 09-CRM-FRD-053 Applications will be accepted until January 15, 2010. Date posted: 12-23-2009 * TRIAL ATTORNEY (GS-0905-13/14/15) DOMESTIC SECURITY SECTION/OFFICE OF SPECIAL INVESTIGATIONS WASHINGTON, DC VACANCY ANNOUNCEMENT NUMBER: 09-CRM-DSS-052 The positions are open until February 26, 2010. The initial cut-off date for the receipt of applications is January 8, 2010. Date posted: 12-23-2009 * EXPERIENCED ATTORNEY(GS-0905-/14/15) DIRECTOR OF ELECTION CRIMES BRANCH PUBLIC INTEGRITY SECTION WASHINGTON, DC 09-CRM-PIN-051 Applications must be postmarked by January 29, 2010. Date posted: 12-18-2009 * U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE OFFICE OF INFORMATION POLICY EXPERIENCED ATTORNEY / GS-12 ANNOUNCEMENT NUMBER OIP-09-005 This position is open until filled, but applications must be received no later than January 7, 2010. Date posted: 12-17-2009 * IMMIGRATION JUDGE EXECUTIVE OFFICE FOR IMMIGRATION REVIEW OAKDALE, LA VACANCY ANNOUNCEMENT NUMBER: EOIR-10-0064 All applications must be received in the Human Resources Office by the close of business on January 5, 2010. Date posted: 12-16-2009 * ASSISTANT U.S. ATTORNEY U.S. ATTORNEY'S OFFICE EASTERN DISTRICT OF TEXAS PLANO, TEXAS VACANCY ANNOUNCEMENT NO: 10-EDTX-07 (AUSA) OPENING DATE: DECEMBER 16, 2009 CLOSING DATE: DECEMBER 31, 2009 Applications must be received by 5:00 p.m. Central Standard/Daylight Time on December 31, 2009. Date posted: 12-16-2009 * SPECIAL ASSISTANT UNITED STATES ATTORNEY VACANCY UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE - NORTHERN DISTRICT OF IOWA & OFFICE OF THE LINN COUNTY ATTORNEY ANNOUNCEMENT NUMBER: 2010-SAUSA-NDIA-01 Hand-carried applications must be received by 12/31/2009 mailed applications must be postmarked by 12/31/2009. Date posted: 12-16-2009 * IMMIGRATION JUDGE EXECUTIVE OFFICE FOR IMMIGRATION REVIEW EL PASO SPC, TX VACANCY ANNOUNCEMENT NUMBER: EOIR-10-0063 All applications must be received in the Human Resources Office by the close of business on January 5, 2010. Date posted: 12-16-2009 * IMMIGRATION JUDGE EXECUTIVE OFFICE FOR IMMIGRATION REVIEW PEARSALL, TX VACANCY ANNOUNCEMENT NUMBER: EOIR-10-0062 All applications must be received in the Human Resources Office by the close of business on January 5, 2010. Date posted: 12-16-2009 * IMMIGRATION JUDGE EXECUTIVE OFFICE FOR IMMIGRATION REVIEW EAST MESA, CA VACANCY ANNOUNCEMENT NUMBER: EOIR-10-0061 All applications must be received in the Human Resources Office by the close of business on January 5, 2010. Date posted: 12-16-2009 * IMMIGRATION JUDGE EXECUTIVE OFFICE FOR IMMIGRATION REVIEW CHARLOTTE, NC VACANCY ANNOUNCEMENT NUMBER: EOIR-10-0060 All applications must be received in the Human Resources Office by the close of business on January 5, 2010. Date posted: 12-16-2009 * UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE EASTERN DISTRICT OF CALIFORNIA ASSISTANT UNITED STATES ATTORNEY SACREMENTO, CALIFORNIA DECEMBER 15, 2009 10-EDCA-07A Applications should be postmarked no later than Wednesday, December 30, 2009. Date posted: 12-15-2009 The purpose of this email is to advise potential interested persons of employment opportunities at the Department of Justice. The Department of Justice cannot control further dissemination and/or posting of this information. Such posting and/or dissemination is not an endorsement by the Department of the organization or group disseminating and/or posting the information. -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Jobs mailing list Jobs at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/jobs_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Jobs: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/jobs_nfbnet.org/noel.nightingale%40ed.gov From dandrews at visi.com Thu Dec 31 22:40:20 2009 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2009 16:40:20 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] PDF file In-Reply-To: <20091229.064330.428.140252@mailpop05.vgs.untd.com> References: <20091229.064330.428.140252@mailpop05.vgs.untd.com> Message-ID: Yes, there are several -- but probably the most general one is gui-talk, for the discussion of the graphical user interface, windows etc. To subscribe either go to: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gui-talk_nfbnet.org or send e-mail to gui-talk-request at nfbnet.org and put the word subscribe in the subject line. Dave At 08:43 AM 12/29/2009, you wrote: > Is there a technology list and how does one subscribe? > >Patrick H. Stiehm >Stiehm Law Office >Alexandria, VA 22309 >703-360-1089 (Voice) >703-935-8266 (Fax) > >On Tue, 29 Dec 2009 00:25:47 -0600 David Andrews >writes: > > This list is not a technology list, but for discussion of blindness > > and the law. > > > > Dave > > > > At 07:14 PM 12/27/2009, you wrote: > > >Does any one know of a good OCR I as a blind person can use for > > >these types of files? RJ > > > >____________________________________________________________ >Diet Help >Cheap Diet Help Tips. Click here. >http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/c?cp=pMGT45yQb0F_5_YcCzr7ZwAAJ1BdROy9vkzpR6E_Fj7jZTbnAAYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYQAAAAAA= > >_______________________________________________ >blindlaw mailing list >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >for blindlaw: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40visi.com > > >__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus >signature database 4732 (20091231) __________ > >The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > >http://www.eset.com From joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com Thu Dec 31 23:49:52 2009 From: joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com (RJ Sandefur) Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2009 18:49:52 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Intro and request for assistance References: <017101ca898a$58b17f00$b2f16b4c@ownera23efd7c3> Message-ID: <000c01ca8a73$f2e3d4d0$0302a8c0@hometwxakonvzn> I think the professior is mis guided, and she is going to have to sho this professior she can do what is expected. RJ ----- Original Message ----- From: "tammy cantrell" To: Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 2:57 PM Subject: [blindlaw] Intro and request for assistance > Hello! > My name is Tammy. I was referred to this list because I am trying to help > a College student with a challenging problem. I do look forward to > hearing your comments and suggestions. I will just copy my email that got > me pointed in your direction. Thanks so much for your help! > Hello! > I am looking for some input on behalf of a College student. I will share > her story and hopefully somebody would offer some suggestions or a > resource. > > This student is blind and is currently working on a bachelor's degree in > Political Science. Her plans are to become a lawyer. She has tried to > participate in Mock Trials but has met up with problems. The professor > says she can only be the witness but because she is blind she can not be > the lawyer. He says since she can't quickly read through the documents, > she will not be able to question the witness and present her case. > > This student has high expectations for herself and I hate to see her fall > short of her goals because of discrimination or ignorance. > > I have been given permission to share her email address; > soldiergirl2010 at aol.com > > If you would be willing to share ideas with her, it would be so very much > appreciated! If you don't have ideas and know somebody that might, please > pass this on to them. Your help is greatly needed. > > Thanks for all of your help! > Smile! GOD loves you! > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com