[blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel

Sat Dec 5 01:11:32 UTC 2009

I think that is remarkable!!!  I've heard that most sighted folks can't find 
their way around a large cruise ship

Steve
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Chris Danielsen" <cdanielsen8 at aol.com>
To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 6:55 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel

>I went exploring the first day and figured out the layout. The Carnival
> Pride was laid out in a fairly straightforward manner. It had several 
> decks,
> but there was a listing in the Braille brochure of what was on each one so
> that you could find things. The cabin numbers and elevator buttons were 
> all
> Brailled.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley
> Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 7:52 PM
> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel
>
> That is very interesting.  How did you navigate around an unfamiliar large
> ship?
>
> Steve
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Chris Danielsen" <cdanielsen8 at aol.com>
> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 7:08 PM
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel
>
>
>> Interesting observations about Carnival.  When I went on the cruise that
>> was
>> organized by the NFB of Colorado in March, we had all of the Braille
>> materials in our cabins. Our waiter was very nice about reading the menus
>> each evening, even though he didn't speak English that well. I will
>> definitely ask for the menus on CD next time. Also, I wasn't aware there
>> was
>> any way to get the daily newsletter, so I'll be sure to ask about that 
>> the
>> next time I go. And I do intend to cruise again. When I was booking 
>> tours,
>> the guy at the desk casually informed me that he would let the tour
>> providers know that I was blind. This raised a red flag with me and I
>> asked
>> him why. He said it was to make sure that the providers could accommodate
>> and that there would be no access issues. I explained that blind people
>> have
>> very few "access issues" and that he was giving the providers an
>> opportunity
>> to discriminate. I probed him a little on whether he thought there were
>> certain things a blind guest couldn't do. He informed me that he had seen
>> blind guests participate in all kinds of activities, I think he
>> specifically
>> mentioned cliff diving, and was not trying to discriminate. I let it go.
>> None of the providers I did tours with gave me or any of the other NFB
>> folks
>> any problems, and I did not hear from other NFB friends about any
>> problems.
>> Of course, the tours I went on were not particularly strenuous; I am a
>> wimp.
>> I had some concerns about the dolphin encounter, but that went fine. In
>> fact, the trainer even made a point of letting me and a friend touch the
>> dolphin's teeth while he held her mouth open (they normally discourage
>> folks
>> from touching the mouth.) He didn't let us touch the nose or blowhole,
>> which
>> are off limits. I plan to try swimming with dolphins next time; the
>> dolphin
>> encounter is when you are on a shallow platform and the dolphin swims up
>> to
>> you. All of the Carnival folks were extremely friendly and I think they
>> were
>> trying to do the right thing. I came away with a mostly favorable
>> impression
>> of the company, although it still concerns me that they "flag" disabled
>> guests even if they really are doing it only to make sure that the guest
>> has
>> a good experience. I am sure that some contractors do discriminate, and
>> while Carnival is of course protecting itself, I wonder if they have a
>> legal
>> point. Other countries do not necessarily have the disability laws that 
>> we
>> do in the USA, and once you are on shore at a foreign port of call I am
>> not
>> sure U.S. law would "reach" businesses there. It reaches foreign cruise
>> lines only because their ships have ports of call in the U.S., if I
>> understand the law correctly. Carnival could make a point of not
>> contracting
>> with vendors who discriminate, however, and that would make a difference.
>>
>> Chris
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf Of AZNOR99 at aol.com
>> Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 8:56 AM
>> To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel
>>
>> A couple of my blind friends and I are avid cruisers - we try to go at
>> least
>> once a year, and Carnival is our cruiseline of choice.  In 2007, they
>> refused to allow us to sign up for a scuba diving excursion because of 
>> our
>> blindness - they said we'd be dangerous to other scuba divers.  This was
>> absurd for all the obvious reasons and because we're all strong swimmers
>> and most of us are accomplished scuba divers.  Carnival said that since
>> they contract with local venders to provide the excursions, and since
>> those
>> venders aren't in the United States, then the ADA does not apply.  We
>> tried
>> to educate the cruise line, and I think they got it.  But the scuba 
>> diving
>> contract holder did not and would not let us participate no matter what 
>> we
>> said.
>> I wish we'd have fought harder.
>>
>> That same year, we had a lot of trouble getting the onboard materials in
>> Braille or electronic formatting.  We followed up with Corporate, and by
>> the time we arrived for our 2008 cruise, everything had been sorted out 
>> to
>> our liking in terms of materials.  They now will send you a CD with 
>> menus,
>> guide books, and all the other material that's in the state room, and
>> they'll either Braille out the daily newsletter or put it on a flash 
>> drive
>> for  you.
>>
>> In terms of excursions, we just always find an outside vender ourselves
>> now.
>> We can discuss blindness beforehand if we want, and we end up not feeling
>> beholden to the cruiseline for our fun off-ship.  And we save a lot  of
>> money in the process.
>>
>> My point is that I'm not sure if the cruiselines are all totally
>> accessible
>> now, but I think Carnival is doing a much better job then it used to do.
>> Also, I have no idea if the contracting venders in the ports are
>> discriminating  against blind people - I bet they still are.
>>
>> Ronza
>>
>>
>>
>> In a message dated 12/3/2009 2:36:49 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
>> ckrugman at sbcglobal.net writes:
>>
>> That's  good to know as I think that Carnival was one of the cruise lines
>> that had  issues regarding blind travelers several years ago.
>> Chuck
>> ----- Original  Message -----
>> From: "Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc."
>> <ukekearuaro at valtdnet.com>
>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List"  <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 2:40  PM
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ADA and Air Travel
>>
>>
>>> Chuck, I sell  cruises amongst other things I do; mostly on Carnival;
>> they
>>> have been  extremely good with all my passengers whether disabled or 
>>> not.
>>>
>>>  I have three groups going out in July and August of 2010, narrowly
>> missed
>>> a chance to get a group out to Alaska.
>>>
>>>  Sincerely,
>>> Olusegun
>>> Denver, Colorado
>>>
>>>  _______________________________________________
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>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob
>> al.net
>>
>>
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