From stevep.deeley at insightbb.com  Mon Jun  1 00:44:11 2009
From: stevep.deeley at insightbb.com (Steve P. Deeley)
Date: Sun, 31 May 2009 20:44:11 -0400
Subject: [blindlaw] Question
In-Reply-To: <839F18076C66C345BD1C0A4ACA67A1F60315BA9B@dhsexcmsg12.intra.dhs.ca.gov>
References: <000701c9df3e$5115cf40$a580fe04@rjige047kjawst>
	<auto-000104236006@mailfront2.g2host.com>
	<19F4A55C66744C4FB0FF47703F076568@StevePC>
	<839F18076C66C345BD1C0A4ACA67A1F60315BA9B@dhsexcmsg12.intra.dhs.ca.gov>
Message-ID: <B45DA61666864DB7A1BDD03175A4B158@StevePC>

Wow, thanks a lot for that information.
Steve
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ford, Tim (CDPH-OLS)" <Tim.Ford at cdph.ca.gov>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 5:34 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Question


> Yes, this does happened a lot, because the machine on which the PDF scan
> is created is not set to create the imbedded text scan.  If this happens
> a lot and you know the person who is sending you the PDF, then you can
> ask them to go into the software on the scan equipment and check the box
> for text scanning to be included as an imbedded part of the PDF
> document.  It makes the file larger, but not as much an increase as I
> would have guessed.
>
> The alternative is to either get the Adobe Professional level software,
> which comes with a built-in text recognition feature, or in the case of
> Openbook, run it through the Freedom Import virtual scanner, which in my
> experience works better than Adobe's built-in scanner.  Also, the Adobe
> built-in scanner gives no audible feedback while it is working, so with
> a large document, you can sit there for several minutes wondering if it
> is still working or has locked up.
>
> I have no idea if the KW scanning software has a similar feature, but I
> would guess it does, since the two products seem to stay pretty even
> with each other.
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
> On Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley
> Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 7:40 AM
> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Question
>
> How can you get a scanned document to read.  This seems to be happening
> more and more.  I think folks are using copy-printers to scan and send
> things like newsletters.  This is frustrating, don't you think?
>
> Steve-- Original Message -----
> From: "David Andrews" <dandrews at visi.com>
> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2009 6:48 PM
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Question
>
>
>> This happens when the document contains a graphic, not actual
>> text.  Usually this happens because someone scans a document, then
>> makes that image file into a PDF.  You can OCR it, .
>> At 09:45 PM 5/27/2009, you wrote:
>>>Every time I try to open this PDF, it says, "Ellert: empty
>>>document." I tryed converting it to text, but It won't work. Is
>>>their some thing wrong with the document? Please email me off list,
>>>at: rjs59 at hotmail.com Thanks, RJ
>>>
>>>
>>>__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus
>>>signature database 4113 (20090528) __________
>>>
>>>The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.
>>>
>>>http://www.eset.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>blindlaw mailing list
>>>blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>for blindlaw:
>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40v
> isi.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindlaw:
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%
> 40insightbb.com
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> --------
>
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.46/2145 - Release Date:
> 05/31/09
> 05:53:00
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tim.ford%40cdp
> h.ca.gov
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.46/2145 - Release Date: 05/31/09 
05:53:00



From angie.matney at gmail.com  Mon Jun  1 01:42:28 2009
From: angie.matney at gmail.com (Angie Matney)
Date: Sun, 31 May 2009 21:42:28 -0400
Subject: [blindlaw] Question
In-Reply-To: <B45DA61666864DB7A1BDD03175A4B158@StevePC>
References: <000701c9df3e$5115cf40$a580fe04@rjige047kjawst>	<auto-000104236006@mailfront2.g2host.com>	<19F4A55C66744C4FB0FF47703F076568@StevePC>	<839F18076C66C345BD1C0A4ACA67A1F60315BA9B@dhsexcmsg12.intra.dhs.ca.gov>
	<B45DA61666864DB7A1BDD03175A4B158@StevePC>
Message-ID: <4a233206.48c3f10a.740a.408f@mx.google.com>

Finereader and Omnipage do this as well. They are about half the cost of
Kurzweil or OpenBook.

-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley
Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 8:44 PM
To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Question

Wow, thanks a lot for that information.
Steve
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ford, Tim (CDPH-OLS)" <Tim.Ford at cdph.ca.gov>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 5:34 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Question


> Yes, this does happened a lot, because the machine on which the PDF scan
> is created is not set to create the imbedded text scan.  If this happens
> a lot and you know the person who is sending you the PDF, then you can
> ask them to go into the software on the scan equipment and check the box
> for text scanning to be included as an imbedded part of the PDF
> document.  It makes the file larger, but not as much an increase as I
> would have guessed.
>
> The alternative is to either get the Adobe Professional level software,
> which comes with a built-in text recognition feature, or in the case of
> Openbook, run it through the Freedom Import virtual scanner, which in my
> experience works better than Adobe's built-in scanner.  Also, the Adobe
> built-in scanner gives no audible feedback while it is working, so with
> a large document, you can sit there for several minutes wondering if it
> is still working or has locked up.
>
> I have no idea if the KW scanning software has a similar feature, but I
> would guess it does, since the two products seem to stay pretty even
> with each other.
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
> On Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley
> Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 7:40 AM
> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Question
>
> How can you get a scanned document to read.  This seems to be happening
> more and more.  I think folks are using copy-printers to scan and send
> things like newsletters.  This is frustrating, don't you think?
>
> Steve-- Original Message -----
> From: "David Andrews" <dandrews at visi.com>
> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2009 6:48 PM
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Question
>
>
>> This happens when the document contains a graphic, not actual
>> text.  Usually this happens because someone scans a document, then
>> makes that image file into a PDF.  You can OCR it, .
>> At 09:45 PM 5/27/2009, you wrote:
>>>Every time I try to open this PDF, it says, "Ellert: empty
>>>document." I tryed converting it to text, but It won't work. Is
>>>their some thing wrong with the document? Please email me off list,
>>>at: rjs59 at hotmail.com Thanks, RJ
>>>
>>>
>>>__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus
>>>signature database 4113 (20090528) __________
>>>
>>>The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.
>>>
>>>http://www.eset.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>blindlaw mailing list
>>>blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>for blindlaw:
>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40v
> isi.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindlaw:
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%
> 40insightbb.com
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> --------
>
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.46/2145 - Release Date:
> 05/31/09
> 05:53:00
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tim.ford%40cdp
> h.ca.gov
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in
sightbb.com


----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----



No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.46/2145 - Release Date: 05/31/09 
05:53:00


_______________________________________________
blindlaw mailing list
blindlaw at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
blindlaw:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie.matney%40gma
il.com



From bspiry at comcast.net  Mon Jun  1 02:13:55 2009
From: bspiry at comcast.net (Bill Spiry)
Date: Sun, 31 May 2009 19:13:55 -0700
Subject: [blindlaw] Question
In-Reply-To: <839F18076C66C345BD1C0A4ACA67A1F60315BA9B@dhsexcmsg12.intra.dhs.ca.gov>
References: <000701c9df3e$5115cf40$a580fe04@rjige047kjawst><auto-000104236006@mailfront2.g2host.com>	<19F4A55C66744C4FB0FF47703F076568@StevePC>
	<839F18076C66C345BD1C0A4ACA67A1F60315BA9B@dhsexcmsg12.intra.dhs.ca.gov>
Message-ID: <000001c9e25e$9e545560$dafd0020$@net>

Kurzwiel does have that capability as well and I also find it to work better
with OCR than Adobe or other off the shelf OCR engines.

-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Ford, Tim (CDPH-OLS)
Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 2:35 PM
To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Question

Yes, this does happened a lot, because the machine on which the PDF scan
is created is not set to create the imbedded text scan.  If this happens
a lot and you know the person who is sending you the PDF, then you can
ask them to go into the software on the scan equipment and check the box
for text scanning to be included as an imbedded part of the PDF
document.  It makes the file larger, but not as much an increase as I
would have guessed.

The alternative is to either get the Adobe Professional level software,
which comes with a built-in text recognition feature, or in the case of
Openbook, run it through the Freedom Import virtual scanner, which in my
experience works better than Adobe's built-in scanner.  Also, the Adobe
built-in scanner gives no audible feedback while it is working, so with
a large document, you can sit there for several minutes wondering if it
is still working or has locked up.

I have no idea if the KW scanning software has a similar feature, but I
would guess it does, since the two products seem to stay pretty even
with each other.

  

-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
On Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley
Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 7:40 AM
To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Question

How can you get a scanned document to read.  This seems to be happening
more and more.  I think folks are using copy-printers to scan and send
things like newsletters.  This is frustrating, don't you think?

Steve-- Original Message -----
From: "David Andrews" <dandrews at visi.com>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2009 6:48 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Question


> This happens when the document contains a graphic, not actual
> text.  Usually this happens because someone scans a document, then
> makes that image file into a PDF.  You can OCR it, .
> At 09:45 PM 5/27/2009, you wrote:
>>Every time I try to open this PDF, it says, "Ellert: empty
>>document." I tryed converting it to text, but It won't work. Is
>>their some thing wrong with the document? Please email me off list,
>>at: rjs59 at hotmail.com Thanks, RJ
>>
>>
>>__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus
>>signature database 4113 (20090528) __________
>>
>>The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.
>>
>>http://www.eset.com
>>
>>
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>blindlaw mailing list
>>blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>for blindlaw:
>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40v
isi.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%
40insightbb.com


------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------



No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.46/2145 - Release Date:
05/31/09 
05:53:00


_______________________________________________
blindlaw mailing list
blindlaw at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
blindlaw:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tim.ford%40cdp
h.ca.gov

_______________________________________________
blindlaw mailing list
blindlaw at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
blindlaw:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/bspiry%40comcast.n
et



From rjs059 at peoplepc.com  Mon Jun  1 02:16:32 2009
From: rjs059 at peoplepc.com (rjs059 at peoplepc.com)
Date: Sun, 31 May 2009 22:16:32 -0400
Subject: [blindlaw] Question
References: <000701c9df3e$5115cf40$a580fe04@rjige047kjawst>	<auto-000104236006@mailfront2.g2host.com>	<19F4A55C66744C4FB0FF47703F076568@StevePC>	<839F18076C66C345BD1C0A4ACA67A1F60315BA9B@dhsexcmsg12.intra.dhs.ca.gov><B45DA61666864DB7A1BDD03175A4B158@StevePC>
	<4a233206.48c3f10a.740a.408f@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <002b01c9e25e$fcd80af0$c585fe04@rjige047kjawst>

I have openbook on my computer. What are you talking the vertual scanner? RJ
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Angie Matney" <angie.matney at gmail.com>
To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 9:42 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Question


> Finereader and Omnipage do this as well. They are about half the cost of
> Kurzweil or OpenBook.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley
> Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 8:44 PM
> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Question
>
> Wow, thanks a lot for that information.
> Steve
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Ford, Tim (CDPH-OLS)" <Tim.Ford at cdph.ca.gov>
> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 5:34 PM
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Question
>
>
>> Yes, this does happened a lot, because the machine on which the PDF scan
>> is created is not set to create the imbedded text scan.  If this happens
>> a lot and you know the person who is sending you the PDF, then you can
>> ask them to go into the software on the scan equipment and check the box
>> for text scanning to be included as an imbedded part of the PDF
>> document.  It makes the file larger, but not as much an increase as I
>> would have guessed.
>>
>> The alternative is to either get the Adobe Professional level software,
>> which comes with a built-in text recognition feature, or in the case of
>> Openbook, run it through the Freedom Import virtual scanner, which in my
>> experience works better than Adobe's built-in scanner.  Also, the Adobe
>> built-in scanner gives no audible feedback while it is working, so with
>> a large document, you can sit there for several minutes wondering if it
>> is still working or has locked up.
>>
>> I have no idea if the KW scanning software has a similar feature, but I
>> would guess it does, since the two products seem to stay pretty even
>> with each other.
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>> On Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley
>> Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 7:40 AM
>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Question
>>
>> How can you get a scanned document to read.  This seems to be happening
>> more and more.  I think folks are using copy-printers to scan and send
>> things like newsletters.  This is frustrating, don't you think?
>>
>> Steve-- Original Message -----
>> From: "David Andrews" <dandrews at visi.com>
>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2009 6:48 PM
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Question
>>
>>
>>> This happens when the document contains a graphic, not actual
>>> text.  Usually this happens because someone scans a document, then
>>> makes that image file into a PDF.  You can OCR it, .
>>> At 09:45 PM 5/27/2009, you wrote:
>>>>Every time I try to open this PDF, it says, "Ellert: empty
>>>>document." I tryed converting it to text, but It won't work. Is
>>>>their some thing wrong with the document? Please email me off list,
>>>>at: rjs59 at hotmail.com Thanks, RJ
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus
>>>>signature database 4113 (20090528) __________
>>>>
>>>>The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.
>>>>
>>>>http://www.eset.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>blindlaw mailing list
>>>>blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>for blindlaw:
>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40v
>> isi.com
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> blindlaw:
>>>
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%
>> 40insightbb.com
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> --------
>>
>>
>>
>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>> Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.46/2145 - Release Date:
>> 05/31/09
>> 05:53:00
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindlaw:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tim.ford%40cdp
>> h.ca.gov
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindlaw:
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in
> sightbb.com
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ----
>
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.46/2145 - Release Date: 05/31/09
> 05:53:00
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie.matney%40gma
> il.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rjs059%40peoplepc.com


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG.
Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 270.12.48/2147 - Release Date: 5/31/2009 
8:45 PM



From angie.matney at gmail.com  Mon Jun  1 03:20:09 2009
From: angie.matney at gmail.com (Angie Matney)
Date: Sun, 31 May 2009 23:20:09 -0400
Subject: [blindlaw] Question
In-Reply-To: <000001c9e25e$9e545560$dafd0020$@net>
References: <000701c9df3e$5115cf40$a580fe04@rjige047kjawst><auto-000104236006@mailfront2.g2host.com>	<19F4A55C66744C4FB0FF47703F076568@StevePC>	<839F18076C66C345BD1C0A4ACA67A1F60315BA9B@dhsexcmsg12.intra.dhs.ca.gov>
	<000001c9e25e$9e545560$dafd0020$@net>
Message-ID: <4a2348e9.85c2f10a.593a.1044@mx.google.com>

Hi Bill,

Have you used a dedicated OCR package, as opposed to the OCR capabilities
built into Adobe or something else? I ask because I know that Kurzweil
contains older versions of the OCR engines in Abbyy and OmniPage. Kurzweil
and OpenBook contain additional features that will make them better
solutions for some people. But I personally prefer Abbyy, which is fast and
incredibly accurate. (I have heard that it is less likely to lock up a
computer than Kurzweil, but that concerned an earlier version of Kurzweil.)
I wouldn't necessarily recommend that people who are using OpenBook or
Kurzweil switch to Abbyy or OmniPage. But if you are in the market for a
dedicated OCR program, These two packages are very accessible and are very
good at what they do.

Best,

Angie



-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Bill Spiry
Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 10:14 PM
To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Question

Kurzwiel does have that capability as well and I also find it to work better
with OCR than Adobe or other off the shelf OCR engines.

-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Ford, Tim (CDPH-OLS)
Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 2:35 PM
To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Question

Yes, this does happened a lot, because the machine on which the PDF scan
is created is not set to create the imbedded text scan.  If this happens
a lot and you know the person who is sending you the PDF, then you can
ask them to go into the software on the scan equipment and check the box
for text scanning to be included as an imbedded part of the PDF
document.  It makes the file larger, but not as much an increase as I
would have guessed.

The alternative is to either get the Adobe Professional level software,
which comes with a built-in text recognition feature, or in the case of
Openbook, run it through the Freedom Import virtual scanner, which in my
experience works better than Adobe's built-in scanner.  Also, the Adobe
built-in scanner gives no audible feedback while it is working, so with
a large document, you can sit there for several minutes wondering if it
is still working or has locked up.

I have no idea if the KW scanning software has a similar feature, but I
would guess it does, since the two products seem to stay pretty even
with each other.

  

-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
On Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley
Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 7:40 AM
To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Question

How can you get a scanned document to read.  This seems to be happening
more and more.  I think folks are using copy-printers to scan and send
things like newsletters.  This is frustrating, don't you think?

Steve-- Original Message -----
From: "David Andrews" <dandrews at visi.com>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2009 6:48 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Question


> This happens when the document contains a graphic, not actual
> text.  Usually this happens because someone scans a document, then
> makes that image file into a PDF.  You can OCR it, .
> At 09:45 PM 5/27/2009, you wrote:
>>Every time I try to open this PDF, it says, "Ellert: empty
>>document." I tryed converting it to text, but It won't work. Is
>>their some thing wrong with the document? Please email me off list,
>>at: rjs59 at hotmail.com Thanks, RJ
>>
>>
>>__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus
>>signature database 4113 (20090528) __________
>>
>>The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.
>>
>>http://www.eset.com
>>
>>
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>blindlaw mailing list
>>blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>for blindlaw:
>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40v
isi.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%
40insightbb.com


------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------



No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.46/2145 - Release Date:
05/31/09 
05:53:00


_______________________________________________
blindlaw mailing list
blindlaw at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
blindlaw:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tim.ford%40cdp
h.ca.gov

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blindlaw:
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et


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http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
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il.com



From bspiry at comcast.net  Mon Jun  1 03:54:53 2009
From: bspiry at comcast.net (Bill Spiry)
Date: Sun, 31 May 2009 20:54:53 -0700
Subject: [blindlaw] Question
In-Reply-To: <4a2348e9.85c2f10a.593a.1044@mx.google.com>
References: <000701c9df3e$5115cf40$a580fe04@rjige047kjawst><auto-000104236006@mailfront2.g2host.com>	<19F4A55C66744C4FB0FF47703F076568@StevePC>	<839F18076C66C345BD1C0A4ACA67A1F60315BA9B@dhsexcmsg12.intra.dhs.ca.gov>	<000001c9e25e$9e545560$dafd0020$@net>
	<4a2348e9.85c2f10a.593a.1044@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <000401c9e26c$b9161fb0$2b425f10$@net>

Hi Angie, no I haven't used the Abbyy OCR, I do have the latest ver of KW
though and it's been functioning pretty well. I might look into the off the
shelf you suggest though. thanks.

-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Angie Matney
Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 8:20 PM
To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Question

Hi Bill,

Have you used a dedicated OCR package, as opposed to the OCR capabilities
built into Adobe or something else? I ask because I know that Kurzweil
contains older versions of the OCR engines in Abbyy and OmniPage. Kurzweil
and OpenBook contain additional features that will make them better
solutions for some people. But I personally prefer Abbyy, which is fast and
incredibly accurate. (I have heard that it is less likely to lock up a
computer than Kurzweil, but that concerned an earlier version of Kurzweil.)
I wouldn't necessarily recommend that people who are using OpenBook or
Kurzweil switch to Abbyy or OmniPage. But if you are in the market for a
dedicated OCR program, These two packages are very accessible and are very
good at what they do.

Best,

Angie



-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Bill Spiry
Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 10:14 PM
To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Question

Kurzwiel does have that capability as well and I also find it to work better
with OCR than Adobe or other off the shelf OCR engines.

-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Ford, Tim (CDPH-OLS)
Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 2:35 PM
To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Question

Yes, this does happened a lot, because the machine on which the PDF scan
is created is not set to create the imbedded text scan.  If this happens
a lot and you know the person who is sending you the PDF, then you can
ask them to go into the software on the scan equipment and check the box
for text scanning to be included as an imbedded part of the PDF
document.  It makes the file larger, but not as much an increase as I
would have guessed.

The alternative is to either get the Adobe Professional level software,
which comes with a built-in text recognition feature, or in the case of
Openbook, run it through the Freedom Import virtual scanner, which in my
experience works better than Adobe's built-in scanner.  Also, the Adobe
built-in scanner gives no audible feedback while it is working, so with
a large document, you can sit there for several minutes wondering if it
is still working or has locked up.

I have no idea if the KW scanning software has a similar feature, but I
would guess it does, since the two products seem to stay pretty even
with each other.

  

-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
On Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley
Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 7:40 AM
To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Question

How can you get a scanned document to read.  This seems to be happening
more and more.  I think folks are using copy-printers to scan and send
things like newsletters.  This is frustrating, don't you think?

Steve-- Original Message -----
From: "David Andrews" <dandrews at visi.com>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2009 6:48 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Question


> This happens when the document contains a graphic, not actual
> text.  Usually this happens because someone scans a document, then
> makes that image file into a PDF.  You can OCR it, .
> At 09:45 PM 5/27/2009, you wrote:
>>Every time I try to open this PDF, it says, "Ellert: empty
>>document." I tryed converting it to text, but It won't work. Is
>>their some thing wrong with the document? Please email me off list,
>>at: rjs59 at hotmail.com Thanks, RJ
>>
>>
>>__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus
>>signature database 4113 (20090528) __________
>>
>>The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.
>>
>>http://www.eset.com
>>
>>
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>blindlaw mailing list
>>blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>for blindlaw:
>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40v
isi.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%
40insightbb.com


------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------



No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.46/2145 - Release Date:
05/31/09 
05:53:00


_______________________________________________
blindlaw mailing list
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http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
blindlaw:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tim.ford%40cdp
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blindlaw:
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et


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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
blindlaw:
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il.com


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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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et



From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net  Mon Jun  1 07:03:12 2009
From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net)
Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2009 00:03:12 -0700
Subject: [blindlaw] Question
In-Reply-To: <19F4A55C66744C4FB0FF47703F076568@StevePC>
References: <000701c9df3e$5115cf40$a580fe04@rjige047kjawst><auto-000104236006@mailfront2.g2host.com>
	<19F4A55C66744C4FB0FF47703F076568@StevePC>
Message-ID: <8D64D9329C2142A5834CC6A6D4B36C4A@spike>

The only you can get a scanned document to read is to print it out and 
rescan it using OCR software such as Kurzweil. I spend time educating my 
clients however as to the format that I need documents in. As many of my 
clients are nonprofits or public entities that serve various groups I spend 
some time educating and acquainting them with web accessibility standards 
and encourage them to use them when they design content.\
Chuck
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Steve P. Deeley" <stevep.deeley at insightbb.com>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 7:40 AM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Question


> How can you get a scanned document to read.  This seems to be happening 
> more and more.  I think folks are using copy-printers to scan and send 
> things like newsletters.  This is frustrating, don't you think?
>
> Steve-- Original Message ----- 
> From: "David Andrews" <dandrews at visi.com>
> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2009 6:48 PM
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Question
>
>
>> This happens when the document contains a graphic, not actual
>> text.  Usually this happens because someone scans a document, then
>> makes that image file into a PDF.  You can OCR it, .
>> At 09:45 PM 5/27/2009, you wrote:
>>>Every time I try to open this PDF, it says, "Ellert: empty
>>>document." I tryed converting it to text, but It won't work. Is
>>>their some thing wrong with the document? Please email me off list,
>>>at: rjs59 at hotmail.com Thanks, RJ
>>>
>>>
>>>__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus
>>>signature database 4113 (20090528) __________
>>>
>>>The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.
>>>
>>>http://www.eset.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>blindlaw mailing list
>>>blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>for blindlaw:
>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40visi.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> blindlaw:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.46/2145 - Release Date: 05/31/09 
> 05:53:00
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net 




From angie.matney at gmail.com  Mon Jun  1 08:18:48 2009
From: angie.matney at gmail.com (Angie Matney)
Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2009 04:18:48 -0400
Subject: [blindlaw] Question
In-Reply-To: <8D64D9329C2142A5834CC6A6D4B36C4A@spike>
References: <000701c9df3e$5115cf40$a580fe04@rjige047kjawst><auto-000104236006@mailfront2.g2host.com>	<19F4A55C66744C4FB0FF47703F076568@StevePC>
	<8D64D9329C2142A5834CC6A6D4B36C4A@spike>
Message-ID: <4a238eeb.c5c2f10a.6e81.2ef2@mx.google.com>

Hi Chuck,

Good points about educating others as to which formats work best. One thing,
though: You shouldn't need to actually print the document to run OCR on it.
Does Kurzweil have a setting to let you open certain types of files? I use
my OCR software of choice (Abbyy Finereader) to access pdf's that do not
have imbedded text. I don't have to print the file; I just run  it through
the software. Saves a few trees (grin).

Angie





-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net
Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 3:03 AM
To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Question

The only you can get a scanned document to read is to print it out and 
rescan it using OCR software such as Kurzweil. I spend time educating my 
clients however as to the format that I need documents in. As many of my 
clients are nonprofits or public entities that serve various groups I spend 
some time educating and acquainting them with web accessibility standards 
and encourage them to use them when they design content.\
Chuck
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Steve P. Deeley" <stevep.deeley at insightbb.com>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 7:40 AM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Question


> How can you get a scanned document to read.  This seems to be happening 
> more and more.  I think folks are using copy-printers to scan and send 
> things like newsletters.  This is frustrating, don't you think?
>
> Steve-- Original Message ----- 
> From: "David Andrews" <dandrews at visi.com>
> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2009 6:48 PM
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Question
>
>
>> This happens when the document contains a graphic, not actual
>> text.  Usually this happens because someone scans a document, then
>> makes that image file into a PDF.  You can OCR it, .
>> At 09:45 PM 5/27/2009, you wrote:
>>>Every time I try to open this PDF, it says, "Ellert: empty
>>>document." I tryed converting it to text, but It won't work. Is
>>>their some thing wrong with the document? Please email me off list,
>>>at: rjs59 at hotmail.com Thanks, RJ
>>>
>>>
>>>__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus
>>>signature database 4113 (20090528) __________
>>>
>>>The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.
>>>
>>>http://www.eset.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>blindlaw mailing list
>>>blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>for blindlaw:
>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40visi
.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> blindlaw:
>>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in
sightbb.com
>
>
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
>
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.46/2145 - Release Date: 05/31/09

> 05:53:00
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob
al.net 



_______________________________________________
blindlaw mailing list
blindlaw at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
blindlaw:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie.matney%40gma
il.com



From JMcCarthy at nfb.org  Mon Jun  1 12:10:53 2009
From: JMcCarthy at nfb.org (McCarthy, Jim)
Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2009 08:10:53 -0400
Subject: [blindlaw] Question
In-Reply-To: <4a238eeb.c5c2f10a.6e81.2ef2@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6B26D889@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local>

You can also do the same through Kirsweil.  I just did it last night.
Jim McCarthy

-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
On Behalf Of Angie Matney
Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 4:19 AM
To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Question

Hi Chuck,

Good points about educating others as to which formats work best. One
thing,
though: You shouldn't need to actually print the document to run OCR on
it.
Does Kurzweil have a setting to let you open certain types of files? I
use my OCR software of choice (Abbyy Finereader) to access pdf's that do
not have imbedded text. I don't have to print the file; I just run  it
through the software. Saves a few trees (grin).

Angie





-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
On Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net
Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 3:03 AM
To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Question

The only you can get a scanned document to read is to print it out and
rescan it using OCR software such as Kurzweil. I spend time educating my
clients however as to the format that I need documents in. As many of my
clients are nonprofits or public entities that serve various groups I
spend some time educating and acquainting them with web accessibility
standards and encourage them to use them when they design content.\
Chuck
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve P. Deeley" <stevep.deeley at insightbb.com>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 7:40 AM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Question


> How can you get a scanned document to read.  This seems to be 
> happening more and more.  I think folks are using copy-printers to 
> scan and send things like newsletters.  This is frustrating, don't you
think?
>
> Steve-- Original Message -----
> From: "David Andrews" <dandrews at visi.com>
> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2009 6:48 PM
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Question
>
>
>> This happens when the document contains a graphic, not actual text.  
>> Usually this happens because someone scans a document, then makes 
>> that image file into a PDF.  You can OCR it, .
>> At 09:45 PM 5/27/2009, you wrote:
>>>Every time I try to open this PDF, it says, "Ellert: empty document."

>>>I tryed converting it to text, but It won't work. Is their some thing

>>>wrong with the document? Please email me off list,
>>>at: rjs59 at hotmail.com Thanks, RJ
>>>
>>>
>>>__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus 
>>>signature database 4113 (20090528) __________
>>>
>>>The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.
>>>
>>>http://www.eset.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>blindlaw mailing list
>>>blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for

>>>blindlaw:
>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40
>>>visi
.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindlaw:
>>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%
40in
sightbb.com
>
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
----
>
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.46/2145 - Release Date: 
> 05/31/09

> 05:53:00
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindlaw:
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbc
glob
al.net 



_______________________________________________
blindlaw mailing list
blindlaw at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
blindlaw:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie.matney%4
0gma
il.com


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From Tim.Ford at cdph.ca.gov  Mon Jun  1 14:35:40 2009
From: Tim.Ford at cdph.ca.gov (Ford, Tim (CDPH-OLS))
Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2009 07:35:40 -0700
Subject: [blindlaw] Question
In-Reply-To: <002b01c9e25e$fcd80af0$c585fe04@rjige047kjawst>
References: <000701c9df3e$5115cf40$a580fe04@rjige047kjawst>	<auto-000104236006@mailfront2.g2host.com>	<19F4A55C66744C4FB0FF47703F076568@StevePC>	<839F18076C66C345BD1C0A4ACA67A1F60315BA9B@dhsexcmsg12.intra.dhs.ca.gov><B45DA61666864DB7A1BDD03175A4B158@StevePC><4a233206.48c3f10a.740a.408f@mx.google.com>
	<002b01c9e25e$fcd80af0$c585fe04@rjige047kjawst>
Message-ID: <839F18076C66C345BD1C0A4ACA67A1F60315BAB1@dhsexcmsg12.intra.dhs.ca.gov>

If you have Openbook version 8, you have a built-in virtual printer
command, which takes any document, including an Adobe that is just a
picture/image of a page, and sends it directly to Openbook for text
conversion.  You invoke this by starting the normal print command, and
under the printer option, choose the Freedom Import Printer option.  Hit
enter, and it will automatically start Openbook.  Freedom Scientific
recommends manually starting Openbook first, but I have not had problems
in letting the Freedom Import Printer start OB.

 

-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
On Behalf Of rjs059 at peoplepc.com
Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 7:17 PM
To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Question

I have openbook on my computer. What are you talking the vertual
scanner? RJ
----- Original Message -----
From: "Angie Matney" <angie.matney at gmail.com>
To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 9:42 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Question


> Finereader and Omnipage do this as well. They are about half the cost
of
> Kurzweil or OpenBook.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
On
> Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley
> Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 8:44 PM
> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Question
>
> Wow, thanks a lot for that information.
> Steve
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Ford, Tim (CDPH-OLS)" <Tim.Ford at cdph.ca.gov>
> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 5:34 PM
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Question
>
>
>> Yes, this does happened a lot, because the machine on which the PDF
scan
>> is created is not set to create the imbedded text scan.  If this
happens
>> a lot and you know the person who is sending you the PDF, then you
can
>> ask them to go into the software on the scan equipment and check the
box
>> for text scanning to be included as an imbedded part of the PDF
>> document.  It makes the file larger, but not as much an increase as I
>> would have guessed.
>>
>> The alternative is to either get the Adobe Professional level
software,
>> which comes with a built-in text recognition feature, or in the case
of
>> Openbook, run it through the Freedom Import virtual scanner, which in
my
>> experience works better than Adobe's built-in scanner.  Also, the
Adobe
>> built-in scanner gives no audible feedback while it is working, so
with
>> a large document, you can sit there for several minutes wondering if
it
>> is still working or has locked up.
>>
>> I have no idea if the KW scanning software has a similar feature, but
I
>> would guess it does, since the two products seem to stay pretty even
>> with each other.
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org
[mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>> On Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley
>> Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 7:40 AM
>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Question
>>
>> How can you get a scanned document to read.  This seems to be
happening
>> more and more.  I think folks are using copy-printers to scan and
send
>> things like newsletters.  This is frustrating, don't you think?
>>
>> Steve-- Original Message -----
>> From: "David Andrews" <dandrews at visi.com>
>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2009 6:48 PM
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Question
>>
>>
>>> This happens when the document contains a graphic, not actual
>>> text.  Usually this happens because someone scans a document, then
>>> makes that image file into a PDF.  You can OCR it, .
>>> At 09:45 PM 5/27/2009, you wrote:
>>>>Every time I try to open this PDF, it says, "Ellert: empty
>>>>document." I tryed converting it to text, but It won't work. Is
>>>>their some thing wrong with the document? Please email me off list,
>>>>at: rjs59 at hotmail.com Thanks, RJ
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus
>>>>signature database 4113 (20090528) __________
>>>>
>>>>The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.
>>>>
>>>>http://www.eset.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>blindlaw mailing list
>>>>blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>for blindlaw:
>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dandrews%4
0v
>> isi.com
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
for
>>> blindlaw:
>>>
>>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%
>> 40insightbb.com
>>
>>
>>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> --------
>>
>>
>>
>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>> Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.46/2145 - Release Date:
>> 05/31/09
>> 05:53:00
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindlaw:
>>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tim.ford%40cdp
>> h.ca.gov
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindlaw:
>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%
40in
> sightbb.com
>
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
> ----
>
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.46/2145 - Release Date:
05/31/09
> 05:53:00
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindlaw:
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie.matney%4
0gma
> il.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rjs059%40peopl
epc.com


------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------



No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG.
Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 270.12.48/2147 - Release Date:
5/31/2009 
8:45 PM


_______________________________________________
blindlaw mailing list
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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
blindlaw:
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h.ca.gov


From carter.tjoseph at gmail.com  Mon Jun  1 15:57:33 2009
From: carter.tjoseph at gmail.com (T. Joseph Carter)
Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2009 08:57:33 -0700
Subject: [blindlaw] Question
In-Reply-To: <839F18076C66C345BD1C0A4ACA67A1F60315BA9B@dhsexcmsg12.intra.dhs.ca.gov>
References: <19F4A55C66744C4FB0FF47703F076568@StevePC>
	<839F18076C66C345BD1C0A4ACA67A1F60315BA9B@dhsexcmsg12.intra.dhs.ca.gov>
Message-ID: <20090601155732.GA330@yumi.bluecherry.net>

Of course Kurzweil has similar features, specifically because these 
things are so common.

Incidentally, the Fujitsu ScanSnap scanners (at least the S1500 and 
S1500M for Mac) come with the full version of Adobe Acrobat Pro, as 
well as with a limited (ScanSnap-generated PDF only) version of ABBYY 
FineReader set to just do its thing automatically.

I point it out because a lot of lawyers get really excited when they 
see the ScanSnap in action.  If ScanSnap Manager for Windows can be 
used with JAWS/WE, it's about the best line of document scanners on 
the market.  It doesn't do books unless you chop them up, but its 
purpose is to scan documents--both sides at once, twenty sheets of 
paper per minute.  *grin*

Personally, I don't see ScanSnap Manager's document manager as a big 
loss if it's difficult to use with a screen reader.  My thinking is 
that you'd grow out of it pretty quickly anyway and need to move on 
to a real document database system.  Fujitsu's grown-up document 
manager for Windows is Rack2Filer.  There are about a dozen competing 
document management tools to choose from on the Mac ranging from free 
to about $130 for something like DEVONthink Pro Office (which is how 
I OCR'd RJ's PDF for him..)

Joseph


On Sun, May 31, 2009 at 02:34:55PM -0700, Ford, Tim (CDPH-OLS) wrote:
>Yes, this does happened a lot, because the machine on which the PDF scan
>is created is not set to create the imbedded text scan.  If this happens
>a lot and you know the person who is sending you the PDF, then you can
>ask them to go into the software on the scan equipment and check the box
>for text scanning to be included as an imbedded part of the PDF
>document.  It makes the file larger, but not as much an increase as I
>would have guessed.
>
>The alternative is to either get the Adobe Professional level software,
>which comes with a built-in text recognition feature, or in the case of
>Openbook, run it through the Freedom Import virtual scanner, which in my
>experience works better than Adobe's built-in scanner.  Also, the Adobe
>built-in scanner gives no audible feedback while it is working, so with
>a large document, you can sit there for several minutes wondering if it
>is still working or has locked up.
>
>I have no idea if the KW scanning software has a similar feature, but I
>would guess it does, since the two products seem to stay pretty even
>with each other.


From carter.tjoseph at gmail.com  Mon Jun  1 16:06:08 2009
From: carter.tjoseph at gmail.com (T. Joseph Carter)
Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2009 09:06:08 -0700
Subject: [blindlaw] Question
In-Reply-To: <4a2348e9.85c2f10a.593a.1044@mx.google.com>
References: <19F4A55C66744C4FB0FF47703F076568@StevePC>
	<839F18076C66C345BD1C0A4ACA67A1F60315BA9B@dhsexcmsg12.intra.dhs.ca.gov>
	<000001c9e25e$9e545560$dafd0020$@net>
	<4a2348e9.85c2f10a.593a.1044@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <20090601160608.GB330@yumi.bluecherry.net>

Angie,

I found the learning curve of ABBYY FineReader to be fairly high.  
Lots of fiddling to get it to work.  What I've got now has the ABBY 
FineReader engine (currently version 8, since ABBY is skipping 
straight to 10 on the Mac), and it does work extremely well when the 
background is not "noisy".  Most OCR packages try to interpret these 
little artifacts as random punctuation, with even the latest 
FineReader for Windows being no exception.

One interesting thing, if I understand correctly, is that Kurzweil 
can use both the FineReader and OmniPage engines.  I do not know if 
you must toggle them or if it can use both and reconcile the 
differences, but the latter would be a great feature!

I'm not a fan of ReadIRIS.  It's just not clever enough.

Joseph


On Sun, May 31, 2009 at 11:20:09PM -0400, Angie Matney wrote:
>Hi Bill,
>
>Have you used a dedicated OCR package, as opposed to the OCR capabilities
>built into Adobe or something else? I ask because I know that Kurzweil
>contains older versions of the OCR engines in Abbyy and OmniPage. Kurzweil
>and OpenBook contain additional features that will make them better
>solutions for some people. But I personally prefer Abbyy, which is fast and
>incredibly accurate. (I have heard that it is less likely to lock up a
>computer than Kurzweil, but that concerned an earlier version of Kurzweil.)
>I wouldn't necessarily recommend that people who are using OpenBook or
>Kurzweil switch to Abbyy or OmniPage. But if you are in the market for a
>dedicated OCR program, These two packages are very accessible and are very
>good at what they do.
>
>Best,
>
>Angie


From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net  Mon Jun  1 16:29:18 2009
From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net)
Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2009 09:29:18 -0700
Subject: [blindlaw] Question
In-Reply-To: <4a238eeb.c5c2f10a.6e81.2ef2@mx.google.com>
References: <000701c9df3e$5115cf40$a580fe04@rjige047kjawst><auto-000104236006@mailfront2.g2host.com>	<19F4A55C66744C4FB0FF47703F076568@StevePC><8D64D9329C2142A5834CC6A6D4B36C4A@spike>
	<4a238eeb.c5c2f10a.6e81.2ef2@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <F7DC65D96CD04B58B979B6ED1DEEAAF6@spike>

I'm not sure if there is or not probably because I never thought to check.
Chuck
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Angie Matney" <angie.matney at gmail.com>
To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 1:18 AM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Question


> Hi Chuck,
>
> Good points about educating others as to which formats work best. One 
> thing,
> though: You shouldn't need to actually print the document to run OCR on 
> it.
> Does Kurzweil have a setting to let you open certain types of files? I use
> my OCR software of choice (Abbyy Finereader) to access pdf's that do not
> have imbedded text. I don't have to print the file; I just run  it through
> the software. Saves a few trees (grin).
>
> Angie
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net
> Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 3:03 AM
> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Question
>
> The only you can get a scanned document to read is to print it out and
> rescan it using OCR software such as Kurzweil. I spend time educating my
> clients however as to the format that I need documents in. As many of my
> clients are nonprofits or public entities that serve various groups I 
> spend
> some time educating and acquainting them with web accessibility standards
> and encourage them to use them when they design content.\
> Chuck
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Steve P. Deeley" <stevep.deeley at insightbb.com>
> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 7:40 AM
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Question
>
>
>> How can you get a scanned document to read.  This seems to be happening
>> more and more.  I think folks are using copy-printers to scan and send
>> things like newsletters.  This is frustrating, don't you think?
>>
>> Steve-- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "David Andrews" <dandrews at visi.com>
>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2009 6:48 PM
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Question
>>
>>
>>> This happens when the document contains a graphic, not actual
>>> text.  Usually this happens because someone scans a document, then
>>> makes that image file into a PDF.  You can OCR it, .
>>> At 09:45 PM 5/27/2009, you wrote:
>>>>Every time I try to open this PDF, it says, "Ellert: empty
>>>>document." I tryed converting it to text, but It won't work. Is
>>>>their some thing wrong with the document? Please email me off list,
>>>>at: rjs59 at hotmail.com Thanks, RJ
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus
>>>>signature database 4113 (20090528) __________
>>>>
>>>>The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.
>>>>
>>>>http://www.eset.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>blindlaw mailing list
>>>>blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>for blindlaw:
>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40visi
> .com
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> blindlaw:
>>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in
> sightbb.com
>>
>>
>>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ----
>>
>>
>>
>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>> Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.46/2145 - Release Date: 
>> 05/31/09
>
>> 05:53:00
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindlaw:
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob
> al.net
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie.matney%40gma
> il.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net 



From angie.matney at gmail.com  Mon Jun  1 17:43:57 2009
From: angie.matney at gmail.com (Angie Matney)
Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2009 13:43:57 -0400
Subject: [blindlaw] Question
In-Reply-To: <20090601160608.GB330@yumi.bluecherry.net>
References: <19F4A55C66744C4FB0FF47703F076568@StevePC>	<839F18076C66C345BD1C0A4ACA67A1F60315BA9B@dhsexcmsg12.intra.dhs.ca.gov>	<000001c9e25e$9e545560$dafd0020$@net>	<4a2348e9.85c2f10a.593a.1044@mx.google.com>
	<20090601160608.GB330@yumi.bluecherry.net>
Message-ID: <4a241365.02c3f10a.6605.08fd@mx.google.com>

Hi Joseph,

Thanks for your observations. Personally, I found Abbyy easier to work with
than Kurzweil. The hardest part of the process was changing a setting in
Abbyy to enable the multi-feed detection in my scanner. Once that was done,
I had no problems. I can now convert a PDF to Word, with retained
formatting, in only a few keystrokes. I did not like Kurzweil when I tried
it because I couldn't figure out how to make it let me use JAWS instead of
its built-in interface. But this is personal preference.

I agree that if Kurzweil could reconcile the differences between Abbyy and
Omnipage, it would be worth putting up with some inconvenience. (grin) But I
don't think it does this. Someone who is more familiar with the software can
correct me if I'm wrong.



-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of T. Joseph Carter
Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 12:06 PM
To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Question

Angie,

I found the learning curve of ABBYY FineReader to be fairly high.  
Lots of fiddling to get it to work.  What I've got now has the ABBY 
FineReader engine (currently version 8, since ABBY is skipping 
straight to 10 on the Mac), and it does work extremely well when the 
background is not "noisy".  Most OCR packages try to interpret these 
little artifacts as random punctuation, with even the latest 
FineReader for Windows being no exception.

One interesting thing, if I understand correctly, is that Kurzweil 
can use both the FineReader and OmniPage engines.  I do not know if 
you must toggle them or if it can use both and reconcile the 
differences, but the latter would be a great feature!

I'm not a fan of ReadIRIS.  It's just not clever enough.

Joseph


On Sun, May 31, 2009 at 11:20:09PM -0400, Angie Matney wrote:
>Hi Bill,
>
>Have you used a dedicated OCR package, as opposed to the OCR capabilities
>built into Adobe or something else? I ask because I know that Kurzweil
>contains older versions of the OCR engines in Abbyy and OmniPage. Kurzweil
>and OpenBook contain additional features that will make them better
>solutions for some people. But I personally prefer Abbyy, which is fast and
>incredibly accurate. (I have heard that it is less likely to lock up a
>computer than Kurzweil, but that concerned an earlier version of Kurzweil.)
>I wouldn't necessarily recommend that people who are using OpenBook or
>Kurzweil switch to Abbyy or OmniPage. But if you are in the market for a
>dedicated OCR program, These two packages are very accessible and are very
>good at what they do.
>
>Best,
>
>Angie

_______________________________________________
blindlaw mailing list
blindlaw at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
blindlaw:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie.matney%40gma
il.com



From angie.matney at gmail.com  Mon Jun  1 17:46:02 2009
From: angie.matney at gmail.com (Angie Matney)
Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2009 13:46:02 -0400
Subject: [blindlaw] Question
In-Reply-To: <20090601160608.GB330@yumi.bluecherry.net>
References: <19F4A55C66744C4FB0FF47703F076568@StevePC>	<839F18076C66C345BD1C0A4ACA67A1F60315BA9B@dhsexcmsg12.intra.dhs.ca.gov>	<000001c9e25e$9e545560$dafd0020$@net>	<4a2348e9.85c2f10a.593a.1044@mx.google.com>
	<20090601160608.GB330@yumi.bluecherry.net>
Message-ID: <4a2413e0.86c3f10a.4269.030b@mx.google.com>

Hi Joseph,

Thanks for your observations. Personally, I found Abbyy easier to work with
than Kurzweil. The hardest part of the process was changing a setting in
Abbyy to enable the multi-feed detection in my scanner. Once that was done,
I had no problems. I can now convert a PDF to Word, with retained
formatting, in only a few keystrokes. I did not like Kurzweil when I tried
it because I couldn't figure out how to make it let me use JAWS instead of
its built-in interface. But this is personal preference.

I agree that if Kurzweil could reconcile the differences between Abbyy and
Omnipage, it would be worth putting up with some inconvenience. (grin) But I
don't think it does this. Someone who is more familiar with the software can
correct me if I'm wrong.



-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of T. Joseph Carter
Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 12:06 PM
To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Question

Angie,

I found the learning curve of ABBYY FineReader to be fairly high.  
Lots of fiddling to get it to work.  What I've got now has the ABBY 
FineReader engine (currently version 8, since ABBY is skipping 
straight to 10 on the Mac), and it does work extremely well when the 
background is not "noisy".  Most OCR packages try to interpret these 
little artifacts as random punctuation, with even the latest 
FineReader for Windows being no exception.

One interesting thing, if I understand correctly, is that Kurzweil 
can use both the FineReader and OmniPage engines.  I do not know if 
you must toggle them or if it can use both and reconcile the 
differences, but the latter would be a great feature!

I'm not a fan of ReadIRIS.  It's just not clever enough.

Joseph


On Sun, May 31, 2009 at 11:20:09PM -0400, Angie Matney wrote:
>Hi Bill,
>
>Have you used a dedicated OCR package, as opposed to the OCR capabilities
>built into Adobe or something else? I ask because I know that Kurzweil
>contains older versions of the OCR engines in Abbyy and OmniPage. Kurzweil
>and OpenBook contain additional features that will make them better
>solutions for some people. But I personally prefer Abbyy, which is fast and
>incredibly accurate. (I have heard that it is less likely to lock up a
>computer than Kurzweil, but that concerned an earlier version of Kurzweil.)
>I wouldn't necessarily recommend that people who are using OpenBook or
>Kurzweil switch to Abbyy or OmniPage. But if you are in the market for a
>dedicated OCR program, These two packages are very accessible and are very
>good at what they do.
>
>Best,
>
>Angie

_______________________________________________
blindlaw mailing list
blindlaw at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
blindlaw:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie.matney%40gma
il.com



From carter.tjoseph at gmail.com  Mon Jun  1 21:24:11 2009
From: carter.tjoseph at gmail.com (T. Joseph Carter)
Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2009 14:24:11 -0700
Subject: [blindlaw] Question
In-Reply-To: <4a238eeb.c5c2f10a.6e81.2ef2@mx.google.com>
References: <19F4A55C66744C4FB0FF47703F076568@StevePC>
	<8D64D9329C2142A5834CC6A6D4B36C4A@spike>
	<4a238eeb.c5c2f10a.6e81.2ef2@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <20090601212411.GE330@yumi.bluecherry.net>

Angie,

Both Windows and Mac consider Rich Text to be a "native" format.  The 
operating system itself knows how to use and manipulate it.  On the 
Mac, so is PDF (though Apple doesn't provide an end-user tool to do 
so by hand.)

In Windows, when you go to print, the program generates a stream of 
data in a custom format used only by Windows.  You can save the 
stream to your hard drive, but it's really only good for printing and 
viewing in a third-party tool you can download if you want to.  Still 
it's useful to be able to use that on a laptop when you're not 
connected to your printer.

The Mac does the same thing, except the program generates a stream of 
PDF data.  Anything you print becomes a PDF whether you send it to 
the printer or not.  We have a little menu full of scripts that 
programs add for processing PDFs.

There are PDF printers for Windows too that convert from the Windows 
format to PDF.  There's no reason one of those couldn't be used to 
get the same functionality as our PDFkit scripts.  And we do have a 
few "virtual printers" as well.  I can Mail PDF or I can print to the 
PageSender virtual printer.  I get more settings if I do the latter.  
On Windows, it's the only choice available.  It gets the job done all 
the same, though.

Joseph

On Mon, Jun 01, 2009 at 04:18:48AM -0400, Angie Matney wrote:
>Hi Chuck,
>
>Good points about educating others as to which formats work best. One thing,
>though: You shouldn't need to actually print the document to run OCR on it.
>Does Kurzweil have a setting to let you open certain types of files? I use
>my OCR software of choice (Abbyy Finereader) to access pdf's that do not
>have imbedded text. I don't have to print the file; I just run  it through
>the software. Saves a few trees (grin).
>
>Angie


From bspiry at comcast.net  Tue Jun  2 04:30:15 2009
From: bspiry at comcast.net (Bill Spiry)
Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2009 21:30:15 -0700
Subject: [blindlaw] Question
In-Reply-To: <F7DC65D96CD04B58B979B6ED1DEEAAF6@spike>
References: <000701c9df3e$5115cf40$a580fe04@rjige047kjawst><auto-000104236006@mailfront2.g2host.com>	<19F4A55C66744C4FB0FF47703F076568@StevePC><8D64D9329C2142A5834CC6A6D4B36C4A@spike>	<4a238eeb.c5c2f10a.6e81.2ef2@mx.google.com>
	<F7DC65D96CD04B58B979B6ED1DEEAAF6@spike>
Message-ID: <004601c9e33a$d4f25770$7ed70650$@net>

Pretty easy to do, when kurzwiel is loaded, go to Open a new file (either
under the file menu or simply with a control-o) and then browse to where you
have the file you want to convert saved, highlight it and hit enter.
Kurzwiel will begin the conversion process with your settings as if it was
converting a newly scanned hard copy document.  You can choose which OCR
engine you wish to use under the settings menu under the recognition option.
There will be a dialog box that allows you to change a number of recognition
options including which engine to use.

Kurzwiel is actually pretty easy and friendly to use with a bit of poking
around.
  

-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net
Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 9:29 AM
To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Question

I'm not sure if there is or not probably because I never thought to check.
Chuck
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Angie Matney" <angie.matney at gmail.com>
To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 1:18 AM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Question


> Hi Chuck,
>
> Good points about educating others as to which formats work best. One 
> thing,
> though: You shouldn't need to actually print the document to run OCR on 
> it.
> Does Kurzweil have a setting to let you open certain types of files? I use
> my OCR software of choice (Abbyy Finereader) to access pdf's that do not
> have imbedded text. I don't have to print the file; I just run  it through
> the software. Saves a few trees (grin).
>
> Angie
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net
> Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 3:03 AM
> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Question
>
> The only you can get a scanned document to read is to print it out and
> rescan it using OCR software such as Kurzweil. I spend time educating my
> clients however as to the format that I need documents in. As many of my
> clients are nonprofits or public entities that serve various groups I 
> spend
> some time educating and acquainting them with web accessibility standards
> and encourage them to use them when they design content.\
> Chuck
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Steve P. Deeley" <stevep.deeley at insightbb.com>
> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 7:40 AM
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Question
>
>
>> How can you get a scanned document to read.  This seems to be happening
>> more and more.  I think folks are using copy-printers to scan and send
>> things like newsletters.  This is frustrating, don't you think?
>>
>> Steve-- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "David Andrews" <dandrews at visi.com>
>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2009 6:48 PM
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Question
>>
>>
>>> This happens when the document contains a graphic, not actual
>>> text.  Usually this happens because someone scans a document, then
>>> makes that image file into a PDF.  You can OCR it, .
>>> At 09:45 PM 5/27/2009, you wrote:
>>>>Every time I try to open this PDF, it says, "Ellert: empty
>>>>document." I tryed converting it to text, but It won't work. Is
>>>>their some thing wrong with the document? Please email me off list,
>>>>at: rjs59 at hotmail.com Thanks, RJ
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus
>>>>signature database 4113 (20090528) __________
>>>>
>>>>The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.
>>>>
>>>>http://www.eset.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>blindlaw mailing list
>>>>blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>for blindlaw:
>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40vis
i
> .com
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> blindlaw:
>>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in
> sightbb.com
>>
>>
>>
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ----
>>
>>
>>
>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>> Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.46/2145 - Release Date: 
>> 05/31/09
>
>> 05:53:00
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindlaw:
>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob
> al.net
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindlaw:
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie.matney%40gma
> il.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob
al.net 


_______________________________________________
blindlaw mailing list
blindlaw at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
blindlaw:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/bspiry%40comcast.n
et



From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net  Tue Jun  2 16:13:47 2009
From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net)
Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2009 09:13:47 -0700
Subject: [blindlaw] Question
In-Reply-To: <004601c9e33a$d4f25770$7ed70650$@net>
References: <000701c9df3e$5115cf40$a580fe04@rjige047kjawst><auto-000104236006@mailfront2.g2host.com>	<19F4A55C66744C4FB0FF47703F076568@StevePC><8D64D9329C2142A5834CC6A6D4B36C4A@spike>	<4a238eeb.c5c2f10a.6e81.2ef2@mx.google.com><F7DC65D96CD04B58B979B6ED1DEEAAF6@spike>
	<004601c9e33a$d4f25770$7ed70650$@net>
Message-ID: <F6E5E0680DBF4AB1BF7524112AAD3E56@spike>

Thanks.
Chuck
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Bill Spiry" <bspiry at comcast.net>
To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 9:30 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Question


> Pretty easy to do, when kurzwiel is loaded, go to Open a new file (either
> under the file menu or simply with a control-o) and then browse to where 
> you
> have the file you want to convert saved, highlight it and hit enter.
> Kurzwiel will begin the conversion process with your settings as if it was
> converting a newly scanned hard copy document.  You can choose which OCR
> engine you wish to use under the settings menu under the recognition 
> option.
> There will be a dialog box that allows you to change a number of 
> recognition
> options including which engine to use.
>
> Kurzwiel is actually pretty easy and friendly to use with a bit of poking
> around.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net
> Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 9:29 AM
> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Question
>
> I'm not sure if there is or not probably because I never thought to check.
> Chuck
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Angie Matney" <angie.matney at gmail.com>
> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 1:18 AM
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Question
>
>
>> Hi Chuck,
>>
>> Good points about educating others as to which formats work best. One
>> thing,
>> though: You shouldn't need to actually print the document to run OCR on
>> it.
>> Does Kurzweil have a setting to let you open certain types of files? I 
>> use
>> my OCR software of choice (Abbyy Finereader) to access pdf's that do not
>> have imbedded text. I don't have to print the file; I just run  it 
>> through
>> the software. Saves a few trees (grin).
>>
>> Angie
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net
>> Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 3:03 AM
>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Question
>>
>> The only you can get a scanned document to read is to print it out and
>> rescan it using OCR software such as Kurzweil. I spend time educating my
>> clients however as to the format that I need documents in. As many of my
>> clients are nonprofits or public entities that serve various groups I
>> spend
>> some time educating and acquainting them with web accessibility standards
>> and encourage them to use them when they design content.\
>> Chuck
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Steve P. Deeley" <stevep.deeley at insightbb.com>
>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 7:40 AM
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Question
>>
>>
>>> How can you get a scanned document to read.  This seems to be happening
>>> more and more.  I think folks are using copy-printers to scan and send
>>> things like newsletters.  This is frustrating, don't you think?
>>>
>>> Steve-- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: "David Andrews" <dandrews at visi.com>
>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2009 6:48 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Question
>>>
>>>
>>>> This happens when the document contains a graphic, not actual
>>>> text.  Usually this happens because someone scans a document, then
>>>> makes that image file into a PDF.  You can OCR it, .
>>>> At 09:45 PM 5/27/2009, you wrote:
>>>>>Every time I try to open this PDF, it says, "Ellert: empty
>>>>>document." I tryed converting it to text, but It won't work. Is
>>>>>their some thing wrong with the document? Please email me off list,
>>>>>at: rjs59 at hotmail.com Thanks, RJ
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus
>>>>>signature database 4113 (20090528) __________
>>>>>
>>>>>The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.
>>>>>
>>>>>http://www.eset.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>>blindlaw mailing list
>>>>>blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>for blindlaw:
>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40vis
> i
>> .com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in
>> sightbb.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> ----
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>> Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.46/2145 - Release Date:
>>> 05/31/09
>>
>>> 05:53:00
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> blindlaw:
>>>
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob
>> al.net
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindlaw:
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie.matney%40gma
>> il.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindlaw:
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob
> al.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/bspiry%40comcast.n
> et
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net 




From b75205 at gmail.com  Wed Jun  3 14:54:24 2009
From: b75205 at gmail.com (James Pepper)
Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 09:54:24 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] Question
In-Reply-To: <auto-000104236006@mailfront2.g2host.com>
References: <000701c9df3e$5115cf40$a580fe04@rjige047kjawst>
	<auto-000104236006@mailfront2.g2host.com>
Message-ID: <fe5b78280906030754p2779879atf2192ceaf9e20bf8@mail.gmail.com>

Tell them to send the file in the original format.  They had to create the
file, most likely in Microsoft Word and then they converted that into a PDF
file.  Just tell them to send the original document.  If they made the
document using Adobe InDesign, then yes, you are better off scanning it
again, as InDesign makes text all one word.

The problem with scanning a PDf file is that the OCR does not catch
everything and so you are left tryign to figure out what the content is
after you scan it.   That is not your responsibility.

If you send it to me I can change it for you how long is it?

Acrobat Pro has OCR that works fine.
James Pepper

From jweisberg at screncilaw.com  Wed Jun  3 15:14:58 2009
From: jweisberg at screncilaw.com (James Weisberg)
Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 11:14:58 -0400
Subject: [blindlaw] Tim Ford
Message-ID: <FC50B49ED94B8A45A9AA3CE6D096CAED1F2EA3@2K3FS1.screnci.local>

Hey Tim:

 

I had my computer stolen during my move to Florida with your contact
info!  I finally managed to get back on this list with my new email and
get this;  I managed to land a job about a month after getting down
here.  I'm doing immigration and also helping the boss with his state
civil litigation files but cannot yet appear in court until I take the
bar (next Feb.).  After all my complaining about no one hiring blind
lawyers I hooked up with a guy whose father has a similar condition, it
only took about eleven years!  I hope all is well with you.

 

James W. Weisberg, Esq.

Law Office of Stephen W. Screnci, P.A.

2200 N.W. Boca Raton Blvd., Ste. 210

Boca Raton, Florida  33431

V:  (561) 300-3390

F:  (561) 300-3391

Email:  JWeisberg at screncilaw.com

 

This message contains information which may be confidential and
privileged. Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for
the addressee), you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message
or any information contained in this message. If you have received this
message in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete
the message from your system.

 


From Tim.Ford at cdph.ca.gov  Wed Jun  3 17:07:10 2009
From: Tim.Ford at cdph.ca.gov (Ford, Tim (CDPH-OLS))
Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 10:07:10 -0700
Subject: [blindlaw] Tim Ford
In-Reply-To: <FC50B49ED94B8A45A9AA3CE6D096CAED1F2EA3@2K3FS1.screnci.local>
References: <FC50B49ED94B8A45A9AA3CE6D096CAED1F2EA3@2K3FS1.screnci.local>
Message-ID: <839F18076C66C345BD1C0A4ACA67A1F60315BB07@dhsexcmsg12.intra.dhs.ca.gov>

Great news!  I have sent you a longer note in a note directly to your
e-mail address.

Tim Ford

  

-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
On Behalf Of James Weisberg
Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 8:15 AM
To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
Subject: [blindlaw] Tim Ford

Hey Tim:

 

I had my computer stolen during my move to Florida with your contact
info!  I finally managed to get back on this list with my new email and
get this;  I managed to land a job about a month after getting down
here.  I'm doing immigration and also helping the boss with his state
civil litigation files but cannot yet appear in court until I take the
bar (next Feb.).  After all my complaining about no one hiring blind
lawyers I hooked up with a guy whose father has a similar condition, it
only took about eleven years!  I hope all is well with you.

 

James W. Weisberg, Esq.

Law Office of Stephen W. Screnci, P.A.

2200 N.W. Boca Raton Blvd., Ste. 210

Boca Raton, Florida  33431

V:  (561) 300-3390

F:  (561) 300-3391

Email:  JWeisberg at screncilaw.com

 

This message contains information which may be confidential and
privileged. Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for
the addressee), you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message
or any information contained in this message. If you have received this
message in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete
the message from your system.

 

_______________________________________________
blindlaw mailing list
blindlaw at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
blindlaw:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tim.ford%40cdp
h.ca.gov


From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov  Thu Jun  4 23:26:13 2009
From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel)
Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2009 18:26:13 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] FW: Isaac Lidsky, first blind Supreme Court Law Clerk,
 is Keynote Speaker at ABA Conference!
Message-ID: <E771EAA0575B844C98712011AE73D7ED3AD5C905FC@EDUPTCEXMB03.ed.gov>



________________________________
From: Commission on Mental and Physical Disability Law [mailto:cmpdl at abanet.org]
Sent: Thursday, June 04, 2009 10:51 AM
To: Nightingale, Noel
Subject: Isaac Lidsky, first blind Supreme Court Law Clerk, is Keynote Speaker at ABA Conference!

If you cannot view this e-mail, click here<http://maestro.abanet.org/trk/click?ref=zpqri74vj_3-9a50x3c936x1825&>.


Early bird registration rates<http://maestro.abanet.org/trk/click?ref=zpqri74vj_3-9a50x3c880x1825&> are now extended through June 9!


Isaac Lidsky, first blind Supreme Court Law Clerk, Keynote Speaker at ABA Conference!

[http://www.abanet.org/disability/images/2009conferencelogowebsmall.jpg]<http://maestro.abanet.org/trk/click?ref=zpqri74vj_3-9a50x3b902x1825&>At the 2nd ABA National Conference on the Employment of Lawyers with Disabilities'<http://maestro.abanet.org/trk/click?ref=zpqri74vj_3-9a50x3b902x1825&> networking reception on Monday evening, June 15, Isaac J. Lidsky, Esq., Law Clerk to the Honorable Justice Sandra Day O'Connor and the Honorable Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg, Supreme Court of the United States, will deliver a keynote address.

[http://www.abanet.org/disability/images/lidskysmall.jpg]Isaac is also President, Chairman, and Founder of Hope for Vision, a national nonprofit public charity dedicated to funding the development of treatments and cures for blinding disease. Hope for Vision has raised millions of dollars that have gone directly to scientific research. Previously, he was an associate at the law firm of Jones Day, as well as a child television actor.

Be sure to register<http://maestro.abanet.org/trk/click?ref=zpqri74vj_3-9a50x3c880x1825&> for the Conference so you don't miss out on this unique speaking engagement!



________________________________

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From Ronza.Othman at dhs.gov  Fri Jun  5 18:29:46 2009
From: Ronza.Othman at dhs.gov (Othman, Ronza)
Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 14:29:46 -0400
Subject: [blindlaw] Vacancy Announcements for CRCL Programs Division and
	Civil Liberties Institute
Message-ID: <74096FB4D17ADA49A21F9BED9B9A33D801410EB7@ZAU1UG-0308.DHSNET.DS1.DHS>


DHS CRCL Programs Division has openings for Program Analysts (Civil
Liberties Impact Assessment focused) open on USA Jobs.  The position
sensitivity is Secret.  The vacancy announcement closes on June 18,
2009.   FS-262229DE-SW09
<http://jobview.usajobs.gov/GetJob.aspx?OPMControl=1580341>
(non-government candidates) and FS-262229MP-SW09
<http://jobview.usajobs.gov/GetJob.aspx?OPMControl=1580345>  (status
candidates).

Civil Liberties Institute also has openings for Program Analysts.  The
following is for a Project Manager (position sensitivity Secret) and
closes on June 18, 2009:  FS-262229DE-SW09
<http://jobview.usajobs.gov/GetJob.aspx?OPMControl=1578670>
(non-government candidates) and FS-262229MP-SW09
<http://jobview.usajobs.gov/GetJob.aspx?OPMControl=1578687>  (status
candidates).  The following is for a Subject Matter Expert (position
sensitivity Top Secret/SCI) and closes on June 18, 2009:
FS-261264DE-SW09
<http://jobview.usajobs.gov/GetJob.aspx?OPMControl=1579049>
(non-government candidates) and FS-262229MP-SW09
<http://jobview.usajobs.gov/GetJob.aspx?OPMControl=1579059>  (status
candidates).

Please forward to anyone who may be eligible and interested.


From peagoody at worldnet.att.net  Sat Jun  6 23:23:01 2009
From: peagoody at worldnet.att.net (Ron Dixon)
Date: Sat, 6 Jun 2009 18:23:01 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] KNFB With Wayfinder
Message-ID: <8FBEDE9BD29D4872B9BA066953959939@rons>

Hi Gang:

I am having a problem with setting the navigations into my Wayfinder GPS.  Is there anybody out there using the Wayfinder with the KNFB scanning Cell phone and can give me some pointers on what I am doing wrong?  At this point, any help is appreciated.  


From carter.tjoseph at gmail.com  Sun Jun  7 04:29:10 2009
From: carter.tjoseph at gmail.com (T. Joseph Carter)
Date: Sat, 6 Jun 2009 21:29:10 -0700
Subject: [blindlaw] KNFB With Wayfinder
In-Reply-To: <8FBEDE9BD29D4872B9BA066953959939@rons>
References: <8FBEDE9BD29D4872B9BA066953959939@rons>
Message-ID: <20090607042910.GB6822@yumi.bluecherry.net>

I think you'd find a better answer asking the list designed for 
techie questions or blindtlk.  I doubt blindlaw is likely to give you 
the best possible answer.

Joseph


On Sat, Jun 06, 2009 at 06:23:01PM -0500, Ron Dixon wrote:
>Hi Gang:
>
>I am having a problem with setting the navigations into my Wayfinder GPS.  Is there anybody out there using the Wayfinder with the KNFB scanning Cell phone and can give me some pointers on what I am doing wrong?  At this point, any help is appreciated.  
>
>_______________________________________________
>blindlaw mailing list
>blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw:
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/carter.tjoseph%40gmail.com


From b75205 at gmail.com  Sun Jun  7 13:18:17 2009
From: b75205 at gmail.com (James Pepper)
Date: Sun, 7 Jun 2009 08:18:17 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] The Census does not track the blind
Message-ID: <fe5b78280906070618h1f7e8995tb7339b76dd38a28d@mail.gmail.com>

We need the US Census to track the blind and the visually impaired. Right
now we are tracked as the disabled which includes everyone who has any kind
of disability.  The government cannot track discrimination because they do
not have the figures.  Everyone has to estimate how many people are disabled
because if they actually knew the numbers then it would be a lot easier to
prove discrimination and nobody wants to make it easier!

They do track Sensory impaired but that includes the deaf, and people with
other sensory problems and of course each population has its own problems.

So who can organize this and cause the Census to track the blind and
visually impaired?

Sincerely,

James G. Pepper

From rjaquiss at earthlink.net  Sun Jun  7 18:24:15 2009
From: rjaquiss at earthlink.net (Robert Jaquiss)
Date: Sun, 7 Jun 2009 13:24:15 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] The Census does not track the blind
References: <fe5b78280906070618h1f7e8995tb7339b76dd38a28d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1B702A664B8A4F40B89CBEBC4D54AC7A@D3DTZP41>

Hello:

     I believe that the U.S. Census did at one time track the number of 
blind individuals. I am of the opinion that the way to get the number of 
blind people counted would be to get a bill passed by Congress. Perhaps some 
sort of section where a variety of disabilities are listed and head of 
household or whoever fills out the census is instructed to "check all that 
apply". This would give the various groups of disabled people accurate data.

Regards,

Robert

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "James Pepper" <b75205 at gmail.com>
To: <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 8:18 AM
Subject: [blindlaw] The Census does not track the blind


> We need the US Census to track the blind and the visually impaired. Right
> now we are tracked as the disabled which includes everyone who has any 
> kind
> of disability.  The government cannot track discrimination because they do
> not have the figures.  Everyone has to estimate how many people are 
> disabled
> because if they actually knew the numbers then it would be a lot easier to
> prove discrimination and nobody wants to make it easier!
>
> They do track Sensory impaired but that includes the deaf, and people with
> other sensory problems and of course each population has its own problems.
>
> So who can organize this and cause the Census to track the blind and
> visually impaired?
>
> Sincerely,
>
> James G. Pepper
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rjaquiss%40earthlink.net 



From carter.tjoseph at gmail.com  Sun Jun  7 19:44:52 2009
From: carter.tjoseph at gmail.com (T. Joseph Carter)
Date: Sun, 7 Jun 2009 12:44:52 -0700
Subject: [blindlaw] The Census does not track the blind
In-Reply-To: <fe5b78280906070618h1f7e8995tb7339b76dd38a28d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <fe5b78280906070618h1f7e8995tb7339b76dd38a28d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090607194452.GA10179@yumi.bluecherry.net>

James,

Note that this is too late for the 2010 census as the job has been 
essentially outsourced and data collection is already underway.  That 
said, I think they should keep data on blindness.  It's just that 
doing something about it is going to have to be a bit more long-term.

Joseph


On Sun, Jun 07, 2009 at 08:18:17AM -0500, James Pepper wrote:
>We need the US Census to track the blind and the visually impaired. Right
>now we are tracked as the disabled which includes everyone who has any kind
>of disability.  The government cannot track discrimination because they do
>not have the figures.  Everyone has to estimate how many people are disabled
>because if they actually knew the numbers then it would be a lot easier to
>prove discrimination and nobody wants to make it easier!
>
>They do track Sensory impaired but that includes the deaf, and people with
>other sensory problems and of course each population has its own problems.
>
>So who can organize this and cause the Census to track the blind and
>visually impaired?
>
>Sincerely,
>
>James G. Pepper
>_______________________________________________
>blindlaw mailing list
>blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw:
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/carter.tjoseph%40gmail.com


From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net  Mon Jun  8 05:39:30 2009
From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net)
Date: Sun, 7 Jun 2009 22:39:30 -0700
Subject: [blindlaw] The Census does not track the blind
In-Reply-To: <fe5b78280906070618h1f7e8995tb7339b76dd38a28d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <fe5b78280906070618h1f7e8995tb7339b76dd38a28d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <36E661A22FB54B868E00AF87F5DB0362@spike>

This is a very valid point. Perhaps NFB needs to address this issue. If its 
going to happen we need to act fast. Perhaps an emergency resolution to 
implement this at the national convention is in order.
Chuck
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "James Pepper" <b75205 at gmail.com>
To: <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 6:18 AM
Subject: [blindlaw] The Census does not track the blind


> We need the US Census to track the blind and the visually impaired. Right
> now we are tracked as the disabled which includes everyone who has any 
> kind
> of disability.  The government cannot track discrimination because they do
> not have the figures.  Everyone has to estimate how many people are 
> disabled
> because if they actually knew the numbers then it would be a lot easier to
> prove discrimination and nobody wants to make it easier!
>
> They do track Sensory impaired but that includes the deaf, and people with
> other sensory problems and of course each population has its own problems.
>
> So who can organize this and cause the Census to track the blind and
> visually impaired?
>
> Sincerely,
>
> James G. Pepper
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net 



From b75205 at gmail.com  Mon Jun  8 06:00:33 2009
From: b75205 at gmail.com (James Pepper)
Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 01:00:33 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] The Census does not track the blind
In-Reply-To: <36E661A22FB54B868E00AF87F5DB0362@spike>
References: <fe5b78280906070618h1f7e8995tb7339b76dd38a28d@mail.gmail.com>
	<36E661A22FB54B868E00AF87F5DB0362@spike>
Message-ID: <fe5b78280906072300s88e75a0le45d85246dac4678@mail.gmail.com>

Jim Dickson of the AAPD testified before Congress for the re-enactment of
ADA last year saying that about 10 million people are of voting age who are
blind or visually impaired.  The American Foundation for the Blind says that
there are 30 million people who are visually impaired in some manner.  The
census has about 1 million people who are sensory impaired including the
deaf between teh ages of 18 and 34.  The CDC has a figure of 6 million
people who have the top 6 principle causes of blindness.  So there is a lot
of room here and we need to know exactly where people are getting lost.

Well the census hasn't started the major work yet because we have not been
activated yet, so there is still room to manuever.  And if Congress acts
fast we can solve this problem quickly.

I suggest a listing of different levels of accessibility.

The legally blind, the visually impaired. The deaf blind, Color blind,
etc. And with the level of education.

James Pepper



On Mon, Jun 8, 2009 at 12:39 AM, <ckrugman at sbcglobal.net> wrote:

> This is a very valid point. Perhaps NFB needs to address this issue. If its
> going to happen we need to act fast. Perhaps an emergency resolution to
> implement this at the national convention is in order.
> Chuck
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Pepper" <b75205 at gmail.com>
> To: <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 6:18 AM
> Subject: [blindlaw] The Census does not track the blind
>
>
>   We need the US Census to track the blind and the visually impaired.
>> Right
>> now we are tracked as the disabled which includes everyone who has any
>> kind
>> of disability.  The government cannot track discrimination because they do
>> not have the figures.  Everyone has to estimate how many people are
>> disabled
>> because if they actually knew the numbers then it would be a lot easier to
>> prove discrimination and nobody wants to make it easier!
>>
>> They do track Sensory impaired but that includes the deaf, and people with
>> other sensory problems and of course each population has its own problems.
>>
>> So who can organize this and cause the Census to track the blind and
>> visually impaired?
>>
>> Sincerely,
>>
>> James G. Pepper
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindlaw:
>>
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindlaw:
>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b75205%40gmail.com
>

From stone_troll at sbcglobal.net  Mon Jun  8 14:54:56 2009
From: stone_troll at sbcglobal.net (Mark BurningHawk)
Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 07:54:56 -0700
Subject: [blindlaw] The Census does not track the blind
In-Reply-To: <fe5b78280906072300s88e75a0le45d85246dac4678@mail.gmail.com>
References: <fe5b78280906070618h1f7e8995tb7339b76dd38a28d@mail.gmail.com>
	<36E661A22FB54B868E00AF87F5DB0362@spike>
	<fe5b78280906072300s88e75a0le45d85246dac4678@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3E867A7A-68C2-4A16-A0A1-21955D355F1A@sbcglobal.net>

If you track the blind as a separate category/statistic in a census,  
does it constitute the creation of a separate class of citizen, and  
can that be used against us?



From benkarpilow at gmail.com  Mon Jun  8 16:10:50 2009
From: benkarpilow at gmail.com (Ben Karpilow)
Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 09:10:50 -0700
Subject: [blindlaw] The Census does not track the blind
References: <fe5b78280906070618h1f7e8995tb7339b76dd38a28d@mail.gmail.com><36E661A22FB54B868E00AF87F5DB0362@spike><fe5b78280906072300s88e75a0le45d85246dac4678@mail.gmail.com>
	<3E867A7A-68C2-4A16-A0A1-21955D355F1A@sbcglobal.net>
Message-ID: <D6DAD10B16C249228BF637C32AC21531@bentar802wznlv>

I  also wondered about that . I'm not sure whether census information on 
blindness would have a   detrimental effect given the already existing 
sources   documenting  blindness  which are often necessary to establish 
protection under the ADA. Technically, the census only gathers statistical 
information unassociated with specifically named individuals.

Ben



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mark BurningHawk" <stone_troll at sbcglobal.net>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 7:54 AM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] The Census does not track the blind


> If you track the blind as a separate category/statistic in a census,  does 
> it constitute the creation of a separate class of citizen, and  can that 
> be used against us?
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/benkarpilow%40gmail.com 



From carter.tjoseph at gmail.com  Mon Jun  8 16:34:34 2009
From: carter.tjoseph at gmail.com (T. Joseph Carter)
Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 09:34:34 -0700
Subject: [blindlaw] The Census does not track the blind
In-Reply-To: <3E867A7A-68C2-4A16-A0A1-21955D355F1A@sbcglobal.net>
References: <fe5b78280906070618h1f7e8995tb7339b76dd38a28d@mail.gmail.com>
	<36E661A22FB54B868E00AF87F5DB0362@spike>
	<fe5b78280906072300s88e75a0le45d85246dac4678@mail.gmail.com>
	<3E867A7A-68C2-4A16-A0A1-21955D355F1A@sbcglobal.net>
Message-ID: <20090608163434.GK12229@yumi.bluecherry.net>

Not really.  Census data is used in statistical analysis of the whole 
population.  That's about all, really.  Remember that we are already 
lumped into the category of blind people.

I note once again that they CANNOT collect data on blindness for this 
census because the data would be invalid.  Census data has already 
been collected without including blindness, therefore unless you go 
back and re-survey every single person (impractical verging on 
impossible), the data cannot be valid.

Joseph

On Mon, Jun 08, 2009 at 07:54:56AM -0700, Mark BurningHawk wrote:
> If you track the blind as a separate category/statistic in a census,  
> does it constitute the creation of a separate class of citizen, and can 
> that be used against us?


From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net  Mon Jun  8 17:31:31 2009
From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net)
Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 10:31:31 -0700
Subject: [blindlaw] The Census does not track the blind
In-Reply-To: <3E867A7A-68C2-4A16-A0A1-21955D355F1A@sbcglobal.net>
References: <fe5b78280906070618h1f7e8995tb7339b76dd38a28d@mail.gmail.com><36E661A22FB54B868E00AF87F5DB0362@spike><fe5b78280906072300s88e75a0le45d85246dac4678@mail.gmail.com>
	<3E867A7A-68C2-4A16-A0A1-21955D355F1A@sbcglobal.net>
Message-ID: <6748BC07330E4BC8B085D266D3FF2B22@spike>

Census data is not generally used against people. This would be no different 
than tracking by race or several censuses ago when they tracked how many 
houses had bath rooms in them.
Chuck
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mark BurningHawk" <stone_troll at sbcglobal.net>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 7:54 AM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] The Census does not track the blind


> If you track the blind as a separate category/statistic in a census,  does 
> it constitute the creation of a separate class of citizen, and  can that 
> be used against us?
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net 



From b75205 at gmail.com  Mon Jun  8 17:54:03 2009
From: b75205 at gmail.com (James Pepper)
Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 12:54:03 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] The Census does not track the blind
In-Reply-To: <20090608163434.GK12229@yumi.bluecherry.net>
References: <fe5b78280906070618h1f7e8995tb7339b76dd38a28d@mail.gmail.com>
	<36E661A22FB54B868E00AF87F5DB0362@spike>
	<fe5b78280906072300s88e75a0le45d85246dac4678@mail.gmail.com>
	<3E867A7A-68C2-4A16-A0A1-21955D355F1A@sbcglobal.net>
	<20090608163434.GK12229@yumi.bluecherry.net>
Message-ID: <fe5b78280906081054k23908eb1ld5a0b108cb1cded9@mail.gmail.com>

Well considering what Congress has been doing lately since when did
impractical come into the mix?



This is a simple civil rights issue and if you want the law try the Voting
Rights Act of 1965.  That law is enabled under the Rehabilitation Act of
1973 and the following laws have all required each state to provide
accessible voter registration forms for voting.  So get yourself into a
federal court and make this a civil rights issue.  Here are the laws:



Rehabilitation Act of 1973

Voting Accessibility for the Elderly and Handicapped Act of 1984

Americans with Disabilities Act of 1990

National Voter Registration Act of 1993

Section 508 of the Rehabilitation Act of 1996

The Help America Vote Act of 2002



The Voter Rights Act required information on race to be acquired to
administer the law.



It should be noted that the voter registration forms are to this day, not
accessible to the blind.  they simply refuse to do it!  Yes voting machines
are accessible but if you cannot register to vote without assistance or
without spending 1100 dollars for a copy of the full version of JAWS, you
cannot do it by yourself.  Meanwhile everyone else can and for free.  I
submit that the added cost to the blind is a Poll Tax.  Also you are
required to draw a map of where you live on the form.  That is a literacy
test!



James Pepper

From jackchenonline at hotmail.com  Mon Jun  8 18:06:50 2009
From: jackchenonline at hotmail.com (Jack Chen)
Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 14:06:50 -0400
Subject: [blindlaw] FW: Isaac Lidsky, first blind Supreme Court Law Clerk,
	is Keynote Speaker at ABA Conference!
References: <E771EAA0575B844C98712011AE73D7ED3AD5C905FC@EDUPTCEXMB03.ed.gov>
Message-ID: <COL0-DAV2066D92550AB397C13D7B0C3470@phx.gbl>

Hi Noel

As it turns out, I will be coming down to DC for the conference.  Hopefully 
I'll have an opportunity to say hello.  Our managing partner, Walt Smith, 
and both of the visually impaired attorneys at the firm will be in 
attendance.  How many folks are you expecting to be there?  Are most people 
from companies or firms?

See you then.

jack
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Nightingale, Noel" <Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov>
To: <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, June 04, 2009 7:26 PM
Subject: [blindlaw] FW: Isaac Lidsky, first blind Supreme Court Law Clerk, 
is Keynote Speaker at ABA Conference!


>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Commission on Mental and Physical Disability Law 
> [mailto:cmpdl at abanet.org]
> Sent: Thursday, June 04, 2009 10:51 AM
> To: Nightingale, Noel
> Subject: Isaac Lidsky, first blind Supreme Court Law Clerk, is Keynote 
> Speaker at ABA Conference!
>
> If you cannot view this e-mail, click 
> here<http://maestro.abanet.org/trk/click?ref=zpqri74vj_3-9a50x3c936x1825&>.
>
>
> Early bird registration 
> rates<http://maestro.abanet.org/trk/click?ref=zpqri74vj_3-9a50x3c880x1825&> 
> are now extended through June 9!
>
>
> Isaac Lidsky, first blind Supreme Court Law Clerk, Keynote Speaker at ABA 
> Conference!
>
> [http://www.abanet.org/disability/images/2009conferencelogowebsmall.jpg]<http://maestro.abanet.org/trk/click?ref=zpqri74vj_3-9a50x3b902x1825&>At 
> the 2nd ABA National Conference on the Employment of Lawyers with 
> Disabilities'<http://maestro.abanet.org/trk/click?ref=zpqri74vj_3-9a50x3b902x1825&> 
> networking reception on Monday evening, June 15, Isaac J. Lidsky, Esq., 
> Law Clerk to the Honorable Justice Sandra Day O'Connor and the Honorable 
> Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg, Supreme Court of the United States, will 
> deliver a keynote address.
>
> [http://www.abanet.org/disability/images/lidskysmall.jpg]Isaac is also 
> President, Chairman, and Founder of Hope for Vision, a national nonprofit 
> public charity dedicated to funding the development of treatments and 
> cures for blinding disease. Hope for Vision has raised millions of dollars 
> that have gone directly to scientific research. Previously, he was an 
> associate at the law firm of Jones Day, as well as a child television 
> actor.
>
> Be sure to 
> register<http://maestro.abanet.org/trk/click?ref=zpqri74vj_3-9a50x3c880x1825&> 
> for the Conference so you don't miss out on this unique speaking 
> engagement!
>
>
>
> ________________________________
>
> Your e-mail address will only be used within the ABA and its entities. We 
> do not sell or rent e-mail addresses to anyone outside the ABA.
>
> Update your 
> profile<http://maestro.abanet.org/trk/click?ref=zpqri74vj_3-9a50x311fx1825&> 
> | 
> Unsubscribe<http://maestro.abanet.org/trk/clickp?ref=zpqri74vj_3-9a50x39809x1825&email=noel.nightingale at ed.gov> 
> | Privacy 
> Policy<http://maestro.abanet.org/trk/click?ref=zpqri74vj_3-9a50x341x1825&>
>
> American Bar Association | 321 N Clark | Chicago, IL 60654 | 
> 1-800-285-2221
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jackchenonline%40hotmail.com
> 



From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net  Mon Jun  8 18:08:18 2009
From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net)
Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 11:08:18 -0700
Subject: [blindlaw] The Census does not track the blind
In-Reply-To: <fe5b78280906081054k23908eb1ld5a0b108cb1cded9@mail.gmail.com>
References: <fe5b78280906070618h1f7e8995tb7339b76dd38a28d@mail.gmail.com><36E661A22FB54B868E00AF87F5DB0362@spike><fe5b78280906072300s88e75a0le45d85246dac4678@mail.gmail.com><3E867A7A-68C2-4A16-A0A1-21955D355F1A@sbcglobal.net><20090608163434.GK12229@yumi.bluecherry.net>
	<fe5b78280906081054k23908eb1ld5a0b108cb1cded9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4D4A9B091BE94A7EA9F02FCF8BF653C8@spike>

I don't know about other states but in California no one is required to draw 
maps on voter registration forms. While it might be nice to have all forms 
accessible I have supervised the registration of hundreds of voters most 
newly naturalized citizens who request help with voter registration as it 
speeds up their registration process after they are naturalized. With 
current budgget deficits at hand we need to choose our battles wisely, 
otherwise we lose more in the long run. We do not live in a perfect world.
Chuck
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "James Pepper" <b75205 at gmail.com>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 10:54 AM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] The Census does not track the blind


> Well considering what Congress has been doing lately since when did
> impractical come into the mix?
>
>
>
> This is a simple civil rights issue and if you want the law try the Voting
> Rights Act of 1965.  That law is enabled under the Rehabilitation Act of
> 1973 and the following laws have all required each state to provide
> accessible voter registration forms for voting.  So get yourself into a
> federal court and make this a civil rights issue.  Here are the laws:
>
>
>
> Rehabilitation Act of 1973
>
> Voting Accessibility for the Elderly and Handicapped Act of 1984
>
> Americans with Disabilities Act of 1990
>
> National Voter Registration Act of 1993
>
> Section 508 of the Rehabilitation Act of 1996
>
> The Help America Vote Act of 2002
>
>
>
> The Voter Rights Act required information on race to be acquired to
> administer the law.
>
>
>
> It should be noted that the voter registration forms are to this day, not
> accessible to the blind.  they simply refuse to do it!  Yes voting 
> machines
> are accessible but if you cannot register to vote without assistance or
> without spending 1100 dollars for a copy of the full version of JAWS, you
> cannot do it by yourself.  Meanwhile everyone else can and for free.  I
> submit that the added cost to the blind is a Poll Tax.  Also you are
> required to draw a map of where you live on the form.  That is a literacy
> test!
>
>
>
> James Pepper
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net 



From stone_troll at sbcglobal.net  Mon Jun  8 18:32:57 2009
From: stone_troll at sbcglobal.net (Mark BurningHawk)
Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 11:32:57 -0700
Subject: [blindlaw] The Census does not track the blind
In-Reply-To: <20090608163434.GK12229@yumi.bluecherry.net>
References: <fe5b78280906070618h1f7e8995tb7339b76dd38a28d@mail.gmail.com>
	<36E661A22FB54B868E00AF87F5DB0362@spike>
	<fe5b78280906072300s88e75a0le45d85246dac4678@mail.gmail.com>
	<3E867A7A-68C2-4A16-A0A1-21955D355F1A@sbcglobal.net>
	<20090608163434.GK12229@yumi.bluecherry.net>
Message-ID: <4238E98A-1A54-42DA-A7E0-33E1EABED30A@sbcglobal.net>

Am I supposed to fill out a form or something?  I haven't noticed one.



From jackchenonline at hotmail.com  Mon Jun  8 18:38:17 2009
From: jackchenonline at hotmail.com (Jack Chen)
Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 14:38:17 -0400
Subject: [blindlaw] FW: Isaac Lidsky, first blind Supreme Court Law Clerk,
	is Keynote Speaker at ABA Conference!
References: <E771EAA0575B844C98712011AE73D7ED3AD5C905FC@EDUPTCEXMB03.ed.gov>
	<COL0-DAV2066D92550AB397C13D7B0C3470@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <COL0-DAV41E9774AA0FBEED675DB47C3470@phx.gbl>

Apologies to the list for my inadvertent reply to all.


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jack Chen" <jackchenonline at hotmail.com>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 2:06 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] FW: Isaac Lidsky, first blind Supreme Court Law 
Clerk,is Keynote Speaker at ABA Conference!


> Hi Noel
>
> As it turns out, I will be coming down to DC for the conference. 
> Hopefully I'll have an opportunity to say hello.  Our managing partner, 
> Walt Smith, and both of the visually impaired attorneys at the firm will 
> be in attendance.  How many folks are you expecting to be there?  Are most 
> people from companies or firms?
>
> See you then.
>
> jack
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Nightingale, Noel" <Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov>
> To: <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Thursday, June 04, 2009 7:26 PM
> Subject: [blindlaw] FW: Isaac Lidsky, first blind Supreme Court Law Clerk, 
> is Keynote Speaker at ABA Conference!
>
>
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: Commission on Mental and Physical Disability Law 
>> [mailto:cmpdl at abanet.org]
>> Sent: Thursday, June 04, 2009 10:51 AM
>> To: Nightingale, Noel
>> Subject: Isaac Lidsky, first blind Supreme Court Law Clerk, is Keynote 
>> Speaker at ABA Conference!
>>
>> If you cannot view this e-mail, click 
>> here<http://maestro.abanet.org/trk/click?ref=zpqri74vj_3-9a50x3c936x1825&>.
>>
>>
>> Early bird registration 
>> rates<http://maestro.abanet.org/trk/click?ref=zpqri74vj_3-9a50x3c880x1825&> 
>> are now extended through June 9!
>>
>>
>> Isaac Lidsky, first blind Supreme Court Law Clerk, Keynote Speaker at ABA 
>> Conference!
>>
>> [http://www.abanet.org/disability/images/2009conferencelogowebsmall.jpg]<http://maestro.abanet.org/trk/click?ref=zpqri74vj_3-9a50x3b902x1825&>At 
>> the 2nd ABA National Conference on the Employment of Lawyers with 
>> Disabilities'<http://maestro.abanet.org/trk/click?ref=zpqri74vj_3-9a50x3b902x1825&> 
>> networking reception on Monday evening, June 15, Isaac J. Lidsky, Esq., 
>> Law Clerk to the Honorable Justice Sandra Day O'Connor and the Honorable 
>> Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg, Supreme Court of the United States, will 
>> deliver a keynote address.
>>
>> [http://www.abanet.org/disability/images/lidskysmall.jpg]Isaac is also 
>> President, Chairman, and Founder of Hope for Vision, a national nonprofit 
>> public charity dedicated to funding the development of treatments and 
>> cures for blinding disease. Hope for Vision has raised millions of 
>> dollars that have gone directly to scientific research. Previously, he 
>> was an associate at the law firm of Jones Day, as well as a child 
>> television actor.
>>
>> Be sure to 
>> register<http://maestro.abanet.org/trk/click?ref=zpqri74vj_3-9a50x3c880x1825&> 
>> for the Conference so you don't miss out on this unique speaking 
>> engagement!
>>
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>>
>> Your e-mail address will only be used within the ABA and its entities. We 
>> do not sell or rent e-mail addresses to anyone outside the ABA.
>>
>> Update your 
>> profile<http://maestro.abanet.org/trk/click?ref=zpqri74vj_3-9a50x311fx1825&> 
>> | 
>> Unsubscribe<http://maestro.abanet.org/trk/clickp?ref=zpqri74vj_3-9a50x39809x1825&email=noel.nightingale at ed.gov> 
>> | Privacy 
>> Policy<http://maestro.abanet.org/trk/click?ref=zpqri74vj_3-9a50x341x1825&>
>>
>> American Bar Association | 321 N Clark | Chicago, IL 60654 | 
>> 1-800-285-2221
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> blindlaw:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jackchenonline%40hotmail.com
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jackchenonline%40hotmail.com
> 



From b75205 at gmail.com  Mon Jun  8 22:23:18 2009
From: b75205 at gmail.com (James Pepper)
Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 17:23:18 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] The Census does not track the blind
In-Reply-To: <4D4A9B091BE94A7EA9F02FCF8BF653C8@spike>
References: <fe5b78280906070618h1f7e8995tb7339b76dd38a28d@mail.gmail.com>
	<36E661A22FB54B868E00AF87F5DB0362@spike>
	<fe5b78280906072300s88e75a0le45d85246dac4678@mail.gmail.com>
	<3E867A7A-68C2-4A16-A0A1-21955D355F1A@sbcglobal.net>
	<20090608163434.GK12229@yumi.bluecherry.net>
	<fe5b78280906081054k23908eb1ld5a0b108cb1cded9@mail.gmail.com>
	<4D4A9B091BE94A7EA9F02FCF8BF653C8@spike>
Message-ID: <fe5b78280906081523wd8cffc2ub5da954f0b4e80b4@mail.gmail.com>

In Arkansas you are required to draw the map.  When I asked the state
official in charge of voting she said that people have been able to do it in
the past adn nobody complained and they needed it for their workers to find
people on the maps. I suggested using GPS.

Voter registration is run by the Elections Assistance Commission  which is
part of the Federal Elections Commission, so the fight would be against the
Federal Government and not the States directly.

James Pepper

From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net  Tue Jun  9 00:07:39 2009
From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net)
Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 17:07:39 -0700
Subject: [blindlaw] The Census does not track the blind
In-Reply-To: <4238E98A-1A54-42DA-A7E0-33E1EABED30A@sbcglobal.net>
References: <fe5b78280906070618h1f7e8995tb7339b76dd38a28d@mail.gmail.com><36E661A22FB54B868E00AF87F5DB0362@spike><fe5b78280906072300s88e75a0le45d85246dac4678@mail.gmail.com><3E867A7A-68C2-4A16-A0A1-21955D355F1A@sbcglobal.net><20090608163434.GK12229@yumi.bluecherry.net>
	<4238E98A-1A54-42DA-A7E0-33E1EABED30A@sbcglobal.net>
Message-ID: <B96FEF8978D74247A45318DD7A3C76C1@spike>

In 2010 you will receive a census form in the mail or else there will be 
PSA's telling you to call a number if you need help filling out the form. In 
some cases census enumerators will canvas your neighborhood and come to your 
home. At least this is how it was done in 2000.
Chuck
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mark BurningHawk" <stone_troll at sbcglobal.net>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 11:32 AM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] The Census does not track the blind


> Am I supposed to fill out a form or something?  I haven't noticed one.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net 



From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net  Tue Jun  9 00:14:11 2009
From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net)
Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 17:14:11 -0700
Subject: [blindlaw] the census
Message-ID: <9F05FEF79CFA4269AFA323786F699EBB@spike>

While the census does not specifically identify individuals that fall in to a category the potential data obtained from tracking the number of blind people can be used to determine funding for various programs and services as census data is broken down in to cdensus tracts which are the equivalent of a neighborhood or section of a city. Documentation and funding for many social service programs is determined by census tract. This especially holds true for such Federal programs as CDBG or Community Development Block Grant fudns that are administered through the Department of Housing and Urban Development.
Chuck

From stevep.deeley at insightbb.com  Tue Jun  9 00:53:13 2009
From: stevep.deeley at insightbb.com (Steve P. Deeley)
Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 20:53:13 -0400
Subject: [blindlaw] The Census does not track the blind
In-Reply-To: <B96FEF8978D74247A45318DD7A3C76C1@spike>
References: <fe5b78280906070618h1f7e8995tb7339b76dd38a28d@mail.gmail.com>
	<36E661A22FB54B868E00AF87F5DB0362@spike>
	<fe5b78280906072300s88e75a0le45d85246dac4678@mail.gmail.com>
	<3E867A7A-68C2-4A16-A0A1-21955D355F1A@sbcglobal.net>
	<20090608163434.GK12229@yumi.bluecherry.net>
	<4238E98A-1A54-42DA-A7E0-33E1EABED30A@sbcglobal.net>
	<B96FEF8978D74247A45318DD7A3C76C1@spike>
Message-ID: <661F25857E314DE3B55027D8658E5E95@StevePC>

Are there questions pertaining to the type and number of disabled 
individuals residing in a home?

Steve
----- Original Message ----- 
From: <ckrugman at sbcglobal.net>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 8:07 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] The Census does not track the blind


> In 2010 you will receive a census form in the mail or else there will be
> PSA's telling you to call a number if you need help filling out the form. 
> In
> some cases census enumerators will canvas your neighborhood and come to 
> your
> home. At least this is how it was done in 2000.
> Chuck
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Mark BurningHawk" <stone_troll at sbcglobal.net>
> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 11:32 AM
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] The Census does not track the blind
>
>
>> Am I supposed to fill out a form or something?  I haven't noticed one.
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindlaw:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.58/2164 - Release Date: 06/08/09 
17:59:00



From stevep.deeley at insightbb.com  Tue Jun  9 01:16:45 2009
From: stevep.deeley at insightbb.com (Steve P. Deeley)
Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 21:16:45 -0400
Subject: [blindlaw] the census
In-Reply-To: <9F05FEF79CFA4269AFA323786F699EBB@spike>
References: <9F05FEF79CFA4269AFA323786F699EBB@spike>
Message-ID: <3DDEFE0930DA439CBBD674DD9F16E36D@StevePC>

So census questions do not deal with specific disabilities you or your 
family may have?
----- Original Message ----- 
From: <ckrugman at sbcglobal.net>
To: <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 8:14 PM
Subject: [blindlaw] the census


> While the census does not specifically identify individuals that fall in 
> to a category the potential data obtained from tracking the number of 
> blind people can be used to determine funding for various programs and 
> services as census data is broken down in to cdensus tracts which are the 
> equivalent of a neighborhood or section of a city. Documentation and 
> funding for many social service programs is determined by census tract. 
> This especially holds true for such Federal programs as CDBG or Community 
> Development Block Grant fudns that are administered through the Department 
> of Housing and Urban Development.
> Chuck
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.58/2164 - Release Date: 06/08/09 
17:59:00



From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net  Tue Jun  9 01:43:24 2009
From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net)
Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 18:43:24 -0700
Subject: [blindlaw] The Census does not track the blind
In-Reply-To: <661F25857E314DE3B55027D8658E5E95@StevePC>
References: <fe5b78280906070618h1f7e8995tb7339b76dd38a28d@mail.gmail.com><36E661A22FB54B868E00AF87F5DB0362@spike><fe5b78280906072300s88e75a0le45d85246dac4678@mail.gmail.com><3E867A7A-68C2-4A16-A0A1-21955D355F1A@sbcglobal.net><20090608163434.GK12229@yumi.bluecherry.net><4238E98A-1A54-42DA-A7E0-33E1EABED30A@sbcglobal.net><B96FEF8978D74247A45318DD7A3C76C1@spike>
	<661F25857E314DE3B55027D8658E5E95@StevePC>
Message-ID: <CDE27A9EA70E459480E9C7864A2C0ADC@spike>

The questions vary for each census. There can be various factors that are 
potentially addressed by the census. In the past I think there were some 
general questions about it but I don't remember for sure.
Chuck
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Steve P. Deeley" <stevep.deeley at insightbb.com>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 5:53 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] The Census does not track the blind


> Are there questions pertaining to the type and number of disabled 
> individuals residing in a home?
>
> Steve
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: <ckrugman at sbcglobal.net>
> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 8:07 PM
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] The Census does not track the blind
>
>
>> In 2010 you will receive a census form in the mail or else there will be
>> PSA's telling you to call a number if you need help filling out the form. 
>> In
>> some cases census enumerators will canvas your neighborhood and come to 
>> your
>> home. At least this is how it was done in 2000.
>> Chuck
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Mark BurningHawk" <stone_troll at sbcglobal.net>
>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 11:32 AM
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] The Census does not track the blind
>>
>>
>>> Am I supposed to fill out a form or something?  I haven't noticed one.
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> blindlaw:
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> blindlaw:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.58/2164 - Release Date: 06/08/09 
> 17:59:00
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net 



From carter.tjoseph at gmail.com  Tue Jun  9 03:38:19 2009
From: carter.tjoseph at gmail.com (T. Joseph Carter)
Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 20:38:19 -0700
Subject: [blindlaw] The Census does not track the blind
In-Reply-To: <B96FEF8978D74247A45318DD7A3C76C1@spike>
References: <4238E98A-1A54-42DA-A7E0-33E1EABED30A@sbcglobal.net>
	<B96FEF8978D74247A45318DD7A3C76C1@spike>
Message-ID: <20090609033819.GD18034@yumi.bluecherry.net>

Chuck,

Census enumerators have already been canvasing neighborhoods for the 
2010 census.  Hence the reason why I say that it is essentially 
impossible to round up every single person who has already provided 
information and find out if any of them are blind.

It's like dropping a few bags of confetti from a balloon and then 
deciding half an hour later to go and pick up every little piece of 
confetti.  You won't get it all.  The thing is, we're talking 
statistics here: If you don't get it all, it doesn't count.

If we wanted this for 2010, we needed to have gotten to work on it a 
year ago.  We didn't, so we'll have to wait for 2020.

Joseph


On Mon, Jun 08, 2009 at 05:07:39PM -0700, ckrugman at sbcglobal.net wrote:
> In 2010 you will receive a census form in the mail or else there will be  
> PSA's telling you to call a number if you need help filling out the form. 
> In some cases census enumerators will canvas your neighborhood and come 
> to your home. At least this is how it was done in 2000.
> Chuck
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark BurningHawk" 
> <stone_troll at sbcglobal.net>
> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 11:32 AM
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] The Census does not track the blind
>
>
>> Am I supposed to fill out a form or something?  I haven't noticed one.
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for  
>> blindlaw:
  
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net 
>> 
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/carter.tjoseph%40gmail.com


From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net  Tue Jun  9 06:06:40 2009
From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net)
Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 23:06:40 -0700
Subject: [blindlaw] The Census does not track the blind
In-Reply-To: <20090609033819.GD18034@yumi.bluecherry.net>
References: <4238E98A-1A54-42DA-A7E0-33E1EABED30A@sbcglobal.net><B96FEF8978D74247A45318DD7A3C76C1@spike>
	<20090609033819.GD18034@yumi.bluecherry.net>
Message-ID: <F405FAAA797B4605A397A8FED1FB73F2@spike>

They haven't started here yet. They just finished their hiring and training 
within the last month or so.
Chuck
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "T. Joseph Carter" <carter.tjoseph at gmail.com>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 8:38 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] The Census does not track the blind


> Chuck,
>
> Census enumerators have already been canvasing neighborhoods for the 2010 
> census.  Hence the reason why I say that it is essentially impossible to 
> round up every single person who has already provided information and find 
> out if any of them are blind.
>
> It's like dropping a few bags of confetti from a balloon and then deciding 
> half an hour later to go and pick up every little piece of confetti.  You 
> won't get it all.  The thing is, we're talking statistics here: If you 
> don't get it all, it doesn't count.
>
> If we wanted this for 2010, we needed to have gotten to work on it a year 
> ago.  We didn't, so we'll have to wait for 2020.
>
> Joseph
>
>
> On Mon, Jun 08, 2009 at 05:07:39PM -0700, ckrugman at sbcglobal.net wrote:
>> In 2010 you will receive a census form in the mail or else there will be 
>> PSA's telling you to call a number if you need help filling out the form. 
>> In some cases census enumerators will canvas your neighborhood and come 
>> to your home. At least this is how it was done in 2000.
>> Chuck
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark BurningHawk" 
>> <stone_troll at sbcglobal.net>
>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 11:32 AM
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] The Census does not track the blind
>>
>>
>>> Am I supposed to fill out a form or something?  I haven't noticed one.
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>>> blindlaw:
>
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> blindlaw:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/carter.tjoseph%40gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net 




From Bennett.Prows at HHS.GOV  Tue Jun  9 13:55:32 2009
From: Bennett.Prows at HHS.GOV (Prows, Bennett (HHS/OCR))
Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 09:55:32 -0400
Subject: [blindlaw] Vacancy Announcement Trial Attorney EEOC Seattle Field
	Office
Message-ID: <9CDA99CD650C5544ACEADDB63CCD70D1016DF5B8@AVN3VS032.ees.hhs.gov>

Below is some information about an opening in Seattle.  Can probably
find the full information at USA jobs, which is the government web site
for employment opportunities.  According to an E-mail I was copied on,
(lousy grammar), this is a GS12-13 position.

 

/s/

 

Bennett Prows, J.D.

 

 

Are you motivated in helping people?  Do you enjoy challenging but
satisfying work?  Why search any longer-- we have just the opportunity
that you've been looking for!  The Equal Employment Opportunity
Commission (EEOC) is an exciting and progressive organization comprised
of highly motivated individuals committed to service in helping in the
eradication of discrimination in the workplace.  Come join us and make a
difference.

 

You will serve as a Trial Attorney in an EEOC field office Legal Unit
with the responsibility of preparing and presenting some of the most
complex cases for civil litigation of discriminatory employment
practices under the full range of Federal statutes enforced by the EEOC
which includes the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA), Age
Discrimination in Employment Act (ADEA), Equal Pay Act (EPA), and Title
VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 (as amended), in furthering EEOC's
strategic enforcement and litigation plans and priorities.

 

Key Requirements:

 

 

Current BAR License in Good Standing 

 

 

Earned LL.B. or J.D. Degree 

 

 

This position is in the Excepted Service 

 

 

U.S. Citizenship

 


From carter.tjoseph at gmail.com  Tue Jun  9 14:10:19 2009
From: carter.tjoseph at gmail.com (T. Joseph Carter)
Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 07:10:19 -0700
Subject: [blindlaw] The Census does not track the blind
In-Reply-To: <F405FAAA797B4605A397A8FED1FB73F2@spike>
References: <20090609033819.GD18034@yumi.bluecherry.net>
	<F405FAAA797B4605A397A8FED1FB73F2@spike>
Message-ID: <20090609141019.GI18034@yumi.bluecherry.net>

Yeah, but unless all of the data measures a thing, none of it does.  
That's how statistics work.  Community Organizers are hard at work 
here in Oregon and at least the three major cities in Oregon (plus my 
little town) have been canvased.

Right-leaning boards and blogs have been abuzz for months with 
bellyaching about important-acting people with badges and everything 
trying to count every single politically advantageous person to the 
left a year early and not taking "Come back in 2010" for an answer.

Left-leaning boards and blogs have had little complaint.  Of course, 
this is one of those metrics upon which I imagine the politically 
polarized are equal opportunity whiners.  The roles would be reversed 
if Sen. McCain had won.

Joseph


On Mon, Jun 08, 2009 at 11:06:40PM -0700, ckrugman at sbcglobal.net wrote:
> They haven't started here yet. They just finished their hiring and 
> training within the last month or so.
> Chuck
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "T. Joseph Carter" 
> <carter.tjoseph at gmail.com>
> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 8:38 PM
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] The Census does not track the blind
>
>
>> Chuck,
>>
>> Census enumerators have already been canvasing neighborhoods for the 
>> 2010 census.  Hence the reason why I say that it is essentially 
>> impossible to round up every single person who has already provided 
>> information and find out if any of them are blind.
>>
>> It's like dropping a few bags of confetti from a balloon and then 
>> deciding half an hour later to go and pick up every little piece of 
>> confetti.  You won't get it all.  The thing is, we're talking 
>> statistics here: If you don't get it all, it doesn't count.
>>
>> If we wanted this for 2010, we needed to have gotten to work on it a 
>> year ago.  We didn't, so we'll have to wait for 2020.
>>
>> Joseph
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Jun 08, 2009 at 05:07:39PM -0700, ckrugman at sbcglobal.net wrote:
>>> In 2010 you will receive a census form in the mail or else there will 
>>> be PSA's telling you to call a number if you need help filling out 
>>> the form. In some cases census enumerators will canvas your 
>>> neighborhood and come to your home. At least this is how it was done 
>>> in 2000.
>>> Chuck
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark BurningHawk"  
>>> <stone_troll at sbcglobal.net>
>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 11:32 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] The Census does not track the blind
>>>
>>>
>>>> Am I supposed to fill out a form or something?  I haven't noticed one.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>> for blindlaw:
>>
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>>> blindlaw:
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/carter.tjoseph%40gmail.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for  
>> blindlaw:
  
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net 
>> 
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/carter.tjoseph%40gmail.com


From craig.borne at dot.gov  Tue Jun  9 14:31:30 2009
From: craig.borne at dot.gov (craig.borne at dot.gov)
Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 10:31:30 -0400
Subject: [blindlaw] FW: EEO Specialist GS-260-12
Message-ID: <61017FCC3706464B8ACB770A8038174E4CC915@OSTMAIL03VS3.ad.dot.gov>

From: Jones, Jennifer (OST)
To: Pacheco, Beatrice (OST)
Cc: Ford, Frederick (OST)
Sent: Fri Jun 05 13:27:24 2009
Subject: EEO Specialist GS-260-12

Hello, 

 

The vacancy announcement for the position of EEO Specialist, GS-260-12
in Civil Rights opened Friday, June 05, 2009 and will close on Monday,
June 15, 2009.  Please use the link below to access the position on
USAJOBS.

 

http://jobview.usajobs.gov/GetJob.aspx?JobID=81357996&JobTitle=EEO+Speci
alist%2c+GS-260-12++BC&q=Department+of+Transportation&jbf574=TD01&lid=17
514&jbf522=&salmin=&salmax=&fedemp=Y&sort=rv&vw=d&ss=0&brd=3876&fedpub=Y
&caller=%2fagency_search.asp&submit1.x=93&submit1.y=13&AVSDM=2009-06-05+
00%3a03%3a00

 

Please let me know if you have any questions. 

 

Thank you, 

Jennifer Jones

Human Resources Specialist

Office of the Secretary of Transportation/DOT

Human Resources Operations 

P (202) 366-9449

Fax (202) 366-3733

Please take a moment to complete our customer survey.  
**OST and RITA (HQ) Human Resources Customer Survey**
<blocked::http://status.dot.gov/surveys/TakeSurvey.asp?PageNumber=1&Surv
eyID=mM1l531M29931> 

Your feedback is greatly appreciated. 

 


From b75205 at gmail.com  Tue Jun  9 16:50:23 2009
From: b75205 at gmail.com (James Pepper)
Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 11:50:23 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] The Census does not track the blind
In-Reply-To: <20090609141019.GI18034@yumi.bluecherry.net>
References: <20090609033819.GD18034@yumi.bluecherry.net>
	<F405FAAA797B4605A397A8FED1FB73F2@spike>
	<20090609141019.GI18034@yumi.bluecherry.net>
Message-ID: <fe5b78280906090950h2974859ao745a811589a019e@mail.gmail.com>

Well they are still training people here and if you are saying they are
trying to get the census done in 2009 because they are afraid of the 2010
elections then your state is already scewed.  Thats perfect for a case right
there!  ARe you saying that democrats are afraid of the 2010 election so
they are trying to get the census done as fast as they can?  That's
patheitc!

There is a reason why it is done every 10 years, so we get the accurate
political viewpoint of an election year and who is voting where! We need to
know who is in what district and how to draw the districts so that the
congressional representation represents the people.  Also given our economy
and that millions of people are loosing their homes, it is a time of great
transition and it is the census of 2010, so it should represent the
population of 2010.

James Pepper

From dtomblin at hotmail.com  Tue Jun  9 18:05:24 2009
From: dtomblin at hotmail.com (Darren Tomblin)
Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 18:05:24 +0000
Subject: [blindlaw] hello
Message-ID: <BLU139-W370AC8A20AC4E93A86EEBBD4440@phx.gbl>


Dear friend, 
 
Sorry to disturb you because of this message! I would like to introduce a good company who trades mainly in electornic products. Our company mainly in electronic products: laptops, cameras, televisions, mobile phones, radio stations, and so on. It is facing to wholesalers,retailers, and personal customer all over the world. Original Products + Best Quality +Brand New + Warranty + Quick Shipping + 100% Secure = 100% satisfied. 
 
For more, please visit (www.)tpvsw.com 
_________________________________________________________________
Lauren found her dream laptop. Find the PC that’s right for you.
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/choosepc/?ocid=ftp_val_wl_290

From carter.tjoseph at gmail.com  Tue Jun  9 21:15:28 2009
From: carter.tjoseph at gmail.com (T. Joseph Carter)
Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 14:15:28 -0700
Subject: [blindlaw] The Census does not track the blind
In-Reply-To: <fe5b78280906090950h2974859ao745a811589a019e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20090609033819.GD18034@yumi.bluecherry.net>
	<F405FAAA797B4605A397A8FED1FB73F2@spike>
	<20090609141019.GI18034@yumi.bluecherry.net>
	<fe5b78280906090950h2974859ao745a811589a019e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090609211528.GB684@yumi.bluecherry.net>

I'm saying nothing of the sort.  I do not fully understand the 
political motivations involved for and against.  What I do understand 
is that data collection has been underway for more than a month now, 
and it's too late to change the rules as to what data is collected.

Joseph


On Tue, Jun 09, 2009 at 11:50:23AM -0500, James Pepper wrote:
>Well they are still training people here and if you are saying they are
>trying to get the census done in 2009 because they are afraid of the 2010
>elections then your state is already scewed.  Thats perfect for a case right
>there!  ARe you saying that democrats are afraid of the 2010 election so
>they are trying to get the census done as fast as they can?  That's
>patheitc!
>
>There is a reason why it is done every 10 years, so we get the accurate
>political viewpoint of an election year and who is voting where! We need to
>know who is in what district and how to draw the districts so that the
>congressional representation represents the people.  Also given our economy
>and that millions of people are loosing their homes, it is a time of great
>transition and it is the census of 2010, so it should represent the
>population of 2010.
>
>James Pepper
>_______________________________________________
>blindlaw mailing list
>blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw:
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/carter.tjoseph%40gmail.com


From b75205 at gmail.com  Tue Jun  9 22:28:23 2009
From: b75205 at gmail.com (James Pepper)
Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 17:28:23 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] The Census does not track the blind
In-Reply-To: <20090609211528.GB684@yumi.bluecherry.net>
References: <20090609033819.GD18034@yumi.bluecherry.net>
	<F405FAAA797B4605A397A8FED1FB73F2@spike>
	<20090609141019.GI18034@yumi.bluecherry.net>
	<fe5b78280906090950h2974859ao745a811589a019e@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090609211528.GB684@yumi.bluecherry.net>
Message-ID: <fe5b78280906091528y2e1a49dao38c951015f31ef12@mail.gmail.com>

It is never too late, and what we need is to bring this up at the
convention. We really do not need Oregon's results anyway the census takes
data from all over the place and many states do not cooperate with all of
the census taking anyway, so whats the problem?

Also we should get the AAPD involved in this effort.
But what we definitely need is some idea as to how many people are affected,
what is their economic position, did they go to college, did they get a
degree, this stuff is essential to developing policy and waiting for this to
happen 10 years from now will not do!

This is a civil rights issue and if we go around saying oh no  we cannot
upset the apple cart then fine we will go around you.

James Pepper

From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net  Wed Jun 10 00:05:01 2009
From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net)
Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 17:05:01 -0700
Subject: [blindlaw] hello
In-Reply-To: <BLU139-W370AC8A20AC4E93A86EEBBD4440@phx.gbl>
References: <BLU139-W370AC8A20AC4E93A86EEBBD4440@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <9541A499B2D34A558AF5F06241DD0ABF@spike>

It would be interesting to know how we can get SPAM posted on this list as 
this email is definitely Spam and if the originator is a member of this list 
his computer has been hijacked.
Chuck
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Darren Tomblin" <dtomblin at hotmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2009 11:05 AM
Subject: [blindlaw] hello



Dear friend,

Sorry to disturb you because of this message! I would like to introduce a 
good company who trades mainly in electornic products. Our company mainly in 
electronic products: laptops, cameras, televisions, mobile phones, radio 
stations, and so on. It is facing to wholesalers,retailers, and personal 
customer all over the world. Original Products + Best Quality +Brand New + 
Warranty + Quick Shipping + 100% Secure = 100% satisfied.

For more, please visit (www.)tpvsw.com
_________________________________________________________________
Lauren found her dream laptop. Find the PC thatÂ’s right for you.
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/choosepc/?ocid=ftp_val_wl_290
_______________________________________________
blindlaw mailing list
blindlaw at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
blindlaw:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net 



From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net  Wed Jun 10 01:48:16 2009
From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net)
Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 18:48:16 -0700
Subject: [blindlaw] The Census does not track the blind
In-Reply-To: <fe5b78280906091528y2e1a49dao38c951015f31ef12@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20090609033819.GD18034@yumi.bluecherry.net><F405FAAA797B4605A397A8FED1FB73F2@spike><20090609141019.GI18034@yumi.bluecherry.net><fe5b78280906090950h2974859ao745a811589a019e@mail.gmail.com><20090609211528.GB684@yumi.bluecherry.net>
	<fe5b78280906091528y2e1a49dao38c951015f31ef12@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <52A0119CA8C64126829104163F0BCB17@spike>

Actually, the states have nothing to do with census collection as according 
to the U.S. Constitution the collection of census data is the responsibility 
of the Federal government.
Chuck
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "James Pepper" <b75205 at gmail.com>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2009 3:28 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] The Census does not track the blind


> It is never too late, and what we need is to bring this up at the
> convention. We really do not need Oregon's results anyway the census takes
> data from all over the place and many states do not cooperate with all of
> the census taking anyway, so whats the problem?
>
> Also we should get the AAPD involved in this effort.
> But what we definitely need is some idea as to how many people are 
> affected,
> what is their economic position, did they go to college, did they get a
> degree, this stuff is essential to developing policy and waiting for this 
> to
> happen 10 years from now will not do!
>
> This is a civil rights issue and if we go around saying oh no  we cannot
> upset the apple cart then fine we will go around you.
>
> James Pepper
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net 



From carter.tjoseph at gmail.com  Wed Jun 10 19:44:06 2009
From: carter.tjoseph at gmail.com (T. Joseph Carter)
Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 12:44:06 -0700
Subject: [blindlaw] The Census does not track the blind
In-Reply-To: <fe5b78280906091528y2e1a49dao38c951015f31ef12@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20090609033819.GD18034@yumi.bluecherry.net>
	<F405FAAA797B4605A397A8FED1FB73F2@spike>
	<20090609141019.GI18034@yumi.bluecherry.net>
	<fe5b78280906090950h2974859ao745a811589a019e@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090609211528.GB684@yumi.bluecherry.net>
	<fe5b78280906091528y2e1a49dao38c951015f31ef12@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090610194406.GN1330@yumi.bluecherry.net>

James,

Collecting different data in only some locations is by definition 
INVALID.  You want descriptive statistics.  That's what the census 
is, descriptive statistics.  Unlike inferential statistics, where 
predictions of whole populations are taken from small samples and 
mathematics are used to determine the probability that those 
predictions are true, descriptive statistics are hard data.  The 
census is hard data for the entire population of the United States.

Statistics on SOME people who are blind cannot be done.  Neither can 
it be MOST people.  Unless it is 100% of the population (or much 
greater than 99% that the census bureau has determined to be close 
enough because of the cost and logistics of ensuring that every 
single man, woman, and child is properly counted), then the statistic 
cannot be part of the US census results.

If 10% of the country has been surveyed already, it's far too late.  
In fact, if even 1% of the country has been surveyed, it would be too 
late.

You are single-mindedly pushing for and advocating a lie, claiming it   
to be a civil right.  You have rejected rational explanation of why 
what you insist must be done in fact cannot be at this time.  Your 
only defense of your position is that it must be possible, though you 
have no plan for actually doing so.

I tell you flatly that it is not possible without an immediate halt 
to census-taking and a purge of all data collected to date, followed 
by a media campaign to inform everyone that census data must be 
re-taken in any area that has already been surveyed.  My guess is 
that it would cost hundreds of millions of dollars to do that at this 
point.

The train has left the station.  You weren't on it.  The world will 
not turn back time so that you can board before the final whistle.

Joseph


On Tue, Jun 09, 2009 at 05:28:23PM -0500, James Pepper wrote:
>It is never too late, and what we need is to bring this up at the
>convention. We really do not need Oregon's results anyway the census takes
>data from all over the place and many states do not cooperate with all of
>the census taking anyway, so whats the problem?
>
>Also we should get the AAPD involved in this effort.
>But what we definitely need is some idea as to how many people are affected,
>what is their economic position, did they go to college, did they get a
>degree, this stuff is essential to developing policy and waiting for this to
>happen 10 years from now will not do!
>
>This is a civil rights issue and if we go around saying oh no  we cannot
>upset the apple cart then fine we will go around you.
>
>James Pepper


From stevep.deeley at insightbb.com  Wed Jun 10 22:12:01 2009
From: stevep.deeley at insightbb.com (Steve P. Deeley)
Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 18:12:01 -0400
Subject: [blindlaw] The Census does not track the blind
In-Reply-To: <20090610194406.GN1330@yumi.bluecherry.net>
References: <20090609033819.GD18034@yumi.bluecherry.net>
	<F405FAAA797B4605A397A8FED1FB73F2@spike>
	<20090609141019.GI18034@yumi.bluecherry.net>
	<fe5b78280906090950h2974859ao745a811589a019e@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090609211528.GB684@yumi.bluecherry.net>
	<fe5b78280906091528y2e1a49dao38c951015f31ef12@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090610194406.GN1330@yumi.bluecherry.net>
Message-ID: <F998B287955043648A167118B0EA9122@StevePC>

OK, does the US census ask specific questions about the number of blind 
people living in your house?

Steve
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "T. Joseph Carter" <carter.tjoseph at gmail.com>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2009 3:44 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] The Census does not track the blind


> James,
>
> Collecting different data in only some locations is by definition
> INVALID.  You want descriptive statistics.  That's what the census
> is, descriptive statistics.  Unlike inferential statistics, where
> predictions of whole populations are taken from small samples and
> mathematics are used to determine the probability that those
> predictions are true, descriptive statistics are hard data.  The
> census is hard data for the entire population of the United States.
>
> Statistics on SOME people who are blind cannot be done.  Neither can
> it be MOST people.  Unless it is 100% of the population (or much
> greater than 99% that the census bureau has determined to be close
> enough because of the cost and logistics of ensuring that every
> single man, woman, and child is properly counted), then the statistic
> cannot be part of the US census results.
>
> If 10% of the country has been surveyed already, it's far too late.
> In fact, if even 1% of the country has been surveyed, it would be too
> late.
>
> You are single-mindedly pushing for and advocating a lie, claiming it
> to be a civil right.  You have rejected rational explanation of why
> what you insist must be done in fact cannot be at this time.  Your
> only defense of your position is that it must be possible, though you
> have no plan for actually doing so.
>
> I tell you flatly that it is not possible without an immediate halt
> to census-taking and a purge of all data collected to date, followed
> by a media campaign to inform everyone that census data must be
> re-taken in any area that has already been surveyed.  My guess is
> that it would cost hundreds of millions of dollars to do that at this
> point.
>
> The train has left the station.  You weren't on it.  The world will
> not turn back time so that you can board before the final whistle.
>
> Joseph
>
>
> On Tue, Jun 09, 2009 at 05:28:23PM -0500, James Pepper wrote:
>>It is never too late, and what we need is to bring this up at the
>>convention. We really do not need Oregon's results anyway the census takes
>>data from all over the place and many states do not cooperate with all of
>>the census taking anyway, so whats the problem?
>>
>>Also we should get the AAPD involved in this effort.
>>But what we definitely need is some idea as to how many people are 
>>affected,
>>what is their economic position, did they go to college, did they get a
>>degree, this stuff is essential to developing policy and waiting for this 
>>to
>>happen 10 years from now will not do!
>>
>>This is a civil rights issue and if we go around saying oh no  we cannot
>>upset the apple cart then fine we will go around you.
>>
>>James Pepper
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.62/2168 - Release Date: 06/10/09 
18:30:00



From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov  Wed Jun 10 22:40:17 2009
From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel)
Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 17:40:17 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] EEOC position opening:  Trial Attorney (Civil Rights)
Message-ID: <E771EAA0575B844C98712011AE73D7ED3AD8FA50E1@EDUPTCEXMB03.ed.gov>

A link was posted earlier.  Below is the full announcement.  Come to Seattle!
Link:
http://jobview.usajobs.gov/GetJob.aspx?JobID=81337960&JobTitle=Trial+Attorney+(Civil+Rights)&q=SFDO-09-03+trial+attorney+civil+rights&vw=b&re=0&fedemp=N&fedpub=Y&jbf565=&caller=default.aspx&pg=1&AVSDM=2009-06-04+00%3a03%3a00

Text:
Trial Attorney (Civil Rights)
SALARY RANGE: 71,889.00 - 111,134.00 USD /year
OPEN PERIOD: Thursday, June 04, 2009 to Wednesday, June 17, 2009
SERIES & GRADE: GS-0905-12/13 POSITION INFORMATION: Full-Time  Permanent
PROMOTION POTENTIAL: 14
DUTY LOCATIONS:   1 vacancy - Seattle, WA
WHO MAY BE CONSIDERED:   United States Citizens

JOB SUMMARY:
Are you motivated in helping people?  Do you enjoy challenging but satisfying work?  Why search any longer-- we have just the opportunity that you've been looking for!  The Equal Employment Opportunity Commission (EEOC) is an exciting and progressive organization comprised of highly motivated individuals committed to service in helping in the eradication of discrimination in the workplace.  Come join us and make a difference.

You will serve as a Trial Attorney in an EEOC field office Legal Unit with the responsibility of preparing and presenting some of the most complex cases for civil litigation of discriminatory employment practices under the full range of Federal statutes enforced by the EEOC which includes the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA), Age Discrimination in Employment Act (ADEA), Equal Pay Act (EPA), and Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 (as amended), in furthering EEOC's strategic enforcement and litigation plans and priorities.

Key Requirements:
Current BAR License in Good Standing
Earned LL.B. or J.D. Degree
This position is in the Excepted Service
U.S. Citizenship
Additional Duty Location Info:  1 vacancy - Seattle, WA

MAJOR DUTIES:
The incumbent serves as the representative and advocate of the United States when appearing before Article III Judges and Magistrate Judges in the United States Courts.  Prosecution of litigation cases under the Federal statutes enforced by the EEOC (ADA, ADEA, EPA, and Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 as amended), may be of such importance, scope, and complexity that your work will have legal and economic impact extending beyond the parties and the jurisdiction.  In some cases, the impact may be regional or national; in others, the impact may be upon a range of employers within an industry, community or jurisdiction.  Prosecution of such cases may require the concentrated efforts of several attorneys who function as a team.  The employee must use advanced skills and knowledge to effectively deal with opposing counsel who often are teams of experienced expert litigators with the resources of major law firms. The Trial Attorney's duties include the following:  Reviews recommendations of reasonable cause decisions submitted by Enforcement Staff to determine whether investigations have developed sufficient evidence of statutory violations to support litigation. Assesses whether cases should be litigated in accordance with the priorities of the Regional Attorney, the Office of General Counsel and the strategic  objectives of EEOC, including development and litigation of complex cases that further the priorities of national and local enforcement plans. Prepares individually or as a team member, pleadings, discovery documents, motions, and briefs in support of the Commission's legal position.

Prepares written and oral arguments on pre-trial, trial, and post-trial motions in court and  conferences and for hearings before Federal District Judges and Federal Magistrates.  At trial and in depositions, examines and cross examines highly competent expert and other witnesses, and lays foundation for the introduction of documentary evidence. Performs research of complex, factual or legal questions referred by administrative officials and Enforcement staff; provides legal advice and assistance in regard to the provisions and ramifications of the Acts enforced by EEOC, and related areas of law. Works with Enforcement staff to develop cases likely to result in a finding of violation and for which litigation may be pursued.  As required, works with the Legal Unit and other EEOC staff to review and provide guidance on Section 83 and related Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) disclosure requests.

Participates in and prepares presentations to the public and agency personnel for training, educational, and outreach purposes.

QUALIFICATIONS REQUIRED:
Basic Requirements:
All candidates must have earned their first professional law degree (LL.B. or J.D.) and must be a member of the BAR.  In addition, applicants must have the following years of professional legal experience:
     (1)  One year of professional legal experience; or
     (2)  One year of professional non-legal experience at the GS-11 level or equivalent in the  Federal service which demonstrates that the applicant has an intensive knowledge of the laws administered by EEOC and their application. Examples of experience that may demonstrate this knowledge are:
               (a)  Experience as an Investigator, Equal Opportunity Specialist or Paralegal Specialist; or
               (b)  Full-time or continuous participation in a legal aid program as opposed to one-time, intermittent, or casual participation; or
               c)   Significant summer law office clerk experience; or
     (3)  Evidence of superior law student work or activities as demonstrated by one of the following:
               (a)  Academic standing in the upper 20 percent of the law school graduating class; or
               (b)  Work or achievement of significance on the law school's official law review; or
               (c)  Special high-level honors for academic excellence in law school, such as election to the Order of the Coif; or
               (d)  Winning a moot court competition or membership on the moot court team which represents the law school in competition with other law schools; or
               (e)  Other equivalent evidence of clearly superior achievement.

For GS-12:
In order to be considered qualified, in addition to the basic requirements described above you must have at least one year of professional legal experience at the GS-11 level or equivalent education.

Professional legal education above the first professional law degree may be substituted for experience required for GS-12 as follows:
     (a)  The second professional law degree (LL.M.) may be substituted for one year of experience.
     (b)  The third law degree (J.S.D.) may be substituted for one year of experience beyond the LL.M.

For GS-13:
In order to be considered qualified, in addition to the basic requirements described above you must have at least two years of professional legal experience at the GS-12 level or equivalent education.

Professional legal education above the first professional law degree may be substituted for experience required for GS-13 as follows:
     (a)  The second professional law degree (LL.M.) may be substituted for one year of experience.
     (b)  The third law degree (J.S.D.) may be substituted for one year of experience beyond the LL.M.

All qualification requirements must be met by the closing date of this announcement.
See Qualifications Section.
--This is a Bargaining Unit position.
-- EEOC will not pay travel, transportation, and relocation expenses.
-- Travel may be required. As part of the hiring process, applicants selected for employment with EEOC, and whose duties require travel, must apply for a government travel charge card and sign a release form permitting authorized EEOC officials to obtain a credit score.


QUALIFICATIONS REQUIRED:
Basic Requirements:



All candidates must have earned their first professional law degree (LL.B. or J.D.) and must be a member of the BAR.  In addition, applicants must have the following years of professional legal experience:

     (1)  One year of professional legal experience; or
     (2)  One year of professional non-legal experience at the GS-11 level or equivalent in the  Federal service which demonstrates that the applicant has an intensive knowledge of the laws administered by EEOC and their application. Examples of experience that may demonstrate this knowledge are:
               (a)  Experience as an Investigator, Equal Opportunity Specialist or Paralegal Specialist; or
               (b)  Full-time or continuous participation in a legal aid program as opposed to one-time, intermittent, or casual participation; or
               c)   Significant summer law office clerk experience; or
     (3)  Evidence of superior law student work or activities as demonstrated by one of the following:
               (a)  Academic standing in the upper 20 percent of the law school graduating class; or
               (b)  Work or achievement of significance on the law school's official law review; or
               (c)  Special high-level honors for academic excellence in law school, such as election to the Order of the Coif; or
               (d)  Winning a moot court competition or membership on the moot court team which represents the law school in competition with other law schools; or
               (e)  Other equivalent evidence of clearly superior achievement.

For GS-12:

In order to be considered qualified, in addition to the basic requirements described above you must have at least one year of professional legal experience at the GS-11 level or equivalent education.

Professional legal education above the first professional law degree may be substituted for experience required for GS-12 as follows:

     (a)  The second professional law degree (LL.M.) may be substituted for one year of experience.
     (b)  The third law degree (J.S.D.) may be substituted for one year of experience beyond the LL.M.

For GS-13:

In order to be considered qualified, in addition to the basic requirements described above you must have at least two years of professional legal experience at the GS-12 level or equivalent education.

Professional legal education above the first professional law degree may be substituted for experience required for GS-13 as follows:

     (a)  The second professional law degree (LL.M.) may be substituted for one year of experience.
     (b)  The third law degree (J.S.D.) may be substituted for one year of experience beyond the LL.M.

All qualification requirements must be met by the closing date of this announcement.

See Qualifications Section.


--This is a Bargaining Unit position.

-- EEOC will not pay travel, transportation, and relocation expenses.

-- Travel may be required. As part of the hiring process, applicants selected for employment with EEOC, and whose duties require travel, must apply for a government travel charge card and sign a release form permitting authorized EEOC officials to obtain a credit score.

You must be a U.S. citizen to qualify for this position.


BENEFITS:
The Federal government offers a number of exceptional benefits to its employees. The following Web addresses are provided for your reference to explore the major benefits offered to most Federal employees.

Flexible Spending Accounts - The Federal Flexible Spending Accounts Program (FSAFeds) allows you to pay for certain health and dependent care expenses with pre-tax dollars. For additional information visit: https://www.fsafeds.com/fsafeds/index.asp.

Health Insurance - The Federal Employees Health Benefits Program offers over 100 optional plans. For additional information visit: http://www.opm.gov/insure/health/index.asp.

Leave - Most Federal employees earn both annual and sick leave. For information visit: http://www.opm.gov/oca/leave/index.asp.

Life Insurance - The Federal Employees' Group Life Insurance Program (FEGLI) offers: Basic Life Insurance plus three types of optional insurance, for additional information visit: http://www.opm.gov/insure/life/index.asp.

Dental and Insurance Program - The Federal Employees Dental and Insurance Program (FEDVIP) allows dental and vision insurance to be purchased on a group basis which means competitive premiums and no pre-existing condition limitations.  Premiums for enrolled Federal and Postal employees will be withheld from salary on a pre-tax basis.  For additional information visit: http://www.opm.gov/insure/DentalVision/index.asp.

Long Term Care Insurance - The Federal Long Term Care Insurance Program (FLTCIP) provides long term care insurance for Federal employees and their parents, parents-in-law, stepparents, spouses, and adult children. For additional information visit: http://www.ltcfeds.com/.

Retirement Program - Almost all new employees are automatically covered by the Federal Employees Retirement System (FERS). FERS is a three-tiered retirement plan. The three tiers are: Social Security Benefits, Basic Benefit Plan, Thrift Savings Plan. For additional information visit: http://www.opm.gov/retire/index.asp. This link provides an overview of the benefits currently offered to Federal employees.

OTHER INFORMATION:
1.  The EEOC provides reasonable accommodations to applicants with disabilities.  If you need reasonable accommodation for any part of the application and hiring process, please notify the contact named on this vacancy announcement.  The decision on granting reasonable accommodation will be made on a case-by-case basis.

2.  Veterans who served on active duty in the U.S. Armed Services and were separated under honorable conditions may be eligible for veterans' preference pursuant to 5 USC 3320 and 5 CFR Part 302.  If you are a veteran, you must attach a copy of your DD-214 (copy 4) and VA letter (if applicable).

3. If you are a male applicant who was born after 12/31/59 and are required to register under the Military Selective Service Act, the Defense Authorization Act of 1986 requires that you be registered or you are not eligible for appointment in this agency.

SELECTION WILL BE BASED SOLELY ON MERIT AND WILL BE WITHOUT DISCRIMINATION BECAUSE OF AGE, SEX, SEXUAL ORIENTATION, RACE, RELIGION, NATIONAL ORIGIN, MARITAL STATUS, PHYSICAL OR MENTAL DISABILITY.  THE EQUAL EMPLOYMENT OPPORTUNITY COMMISSION IS AN EQUAL OPPORTUNITY EMPLOYER.

HOW TO APPLY:
You may submit your resume for this job online by selecting the 'Apply Online' button at the bottom of this announcement. Please note: your online resume may not be a complete application. Be sure to carefully read this announcement to see if additional information is required and how it should be submitted. If you do not use the online feature, you should send your resume, or Optional Form 612, along with any other required documents to the address shown below.

Mail your applications so it will be postmarked by closing date. If hand delivered, be sure your application is received by closing date.

To apply online, read the announcement carefully and note any rating factors or KSAs that will need a response. From the announcement, select Apply on Line. You will need to log on to access your existing resumes or to create a new one and then submit it for consideration.

REQUIRED DOCUMENTS:
The following documents are required:
 Resume
Veterans Preference documentation (DD-214 and VA letter as appropriate)
Copy of college transcripts (s)
Proof of BAR membership in good standing
Copy of one recent legal writing sample

Applications mailed using government postage or through an internal federal government mail system will not be considered.

YOU MOST PROVIDE A COMPLETE APPLICATION PACKAGE WHICH INCLUDES  A RESUME AND ALL OTHER SUPPORTING DOCUMENTS SPECIFICED IN THE REQUIRED DOCUMENTS SECTION OF THIS ANNOUNCEMENT.  INCOMPLETE APPLICATIONS WILL NOT BE CONSIDERED.

AGENCY CONTACT INFO:
Diane Farr
Phone: 206-220-6875
Fax: 206-220-6869
TDD: 206-220-6882
Email: diane.farr at eeoc.gov

Or write:
Equal Employment Opportunity Commission
909 First Avenue, Suite 400
Seattle, WA 98104
US
Fax: 206-220-6869

WHAT TO EXPECT NEXT:
After a review of your complete application is made you will be notified of your rating and/or referral to the hiring official.  If further evaluation or interviews are required you will be contacted


From dandrews at visi.com  Wed Jun 10 23:00:03 2009
From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews)
Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 18:00:03 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] hello
In-Reply-To: <BLU139-W370AC8A20AC4E93A86EEBBD4440@phx.gbl>
References: <BLU139-W370AC8A20AC4E93A86EEBBD4440@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <auto-000102790467@mailfront1.g2host.com>

If you continue posting these messages to nfbnet.org lists you will 
be permanently banned from all our lists.

Dave

At 01:05 PM 6/9/2009, you wrote:

>Dear friend,
>
>Sorry to disturb you because of this message! I would like to 
>introduce a good company who trades mainly in electornic products. 
>Our company mainly in electronic products: laptops, cameras, 
>televisions, mobile phones, radio stations, and so on. It is facing 
>to wholesalers,retailers, and personal customer all over the world. 
>Original Products + Best Quality +Brand New + Warranty + Quick 
>Shipping + 100% Secure = 100% satisfied.
>
>For more, please visit (www.)tpvsw.com
>_________________________________________________________________
>Lauren found her dream laptop. Find the PC that's right for you.
>http://www.microsoft.com/windows/choosepc/?ocid=ftp_val_wl_290
>_______________________________________________
>blindlaw mailing list
>blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>for blindlaw:
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40visi.com
>
>
>__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus 
>signature database 4142 (20090609) __________
>
>The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.
>
>http://www.eset.com



From darlene.olsen at gmail.com  Thu Jun 11 00:40:02 2009
From: darlene.olsen at gmail.com (Darlene Olsen)
Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 17:40:02 -0700
Subject: [blindlaw] hello
References: <BLU139-W370AC8A20AC4E93A86EEBBD4440@phx.gbl>
	<auto-000102790467@mailfront1.g2host.com>
Message-ID: <F0AAA1C2F2BA47CFB34597713AA94F38@DarleneOlsen>

Mr. Andrews:
     I am a prelaw student.  I just graduated from Napa Valley College and 
thought it would be wonderful to see what makes a good attorney,  Two years 
ago I lost my euyesight.  I finished all the required paralegal classes 
before most of my eye sight was lost.  I would never send messages of 
selling merchandise.  I opened something that was from a mail list member 
called Krugman and it was selling me a new mortage finance rate.  I tried to 
exscape and it hung on to say, wait ... I wondered what happened.  I thought 
it was something to do with a talking watch item.  I was curious because I 
have four of them.  I have integrity and honesty to never violate 
communication between people.  I did not send you a silly advertisement.  I 
pay attention to the postings for the opportunity to learn,.
Respectfully yours,
Darlene Olsen

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "David Andrews" <dandrews at visi.com>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2009 4:00 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] hello


> If you continue posting these messages to nfbnet.org lists you will be 
> permanently banned from all our lists.
>
> Dave
>
> At 01:05 PM 6/9/2009, you wrote:
>
>>Dear friend,
>>
>>Sorry to disturb you because of this message! I would like to introduce a 
>>good company who trades mainly in electornic products. Our company mainly 
>>in electronic products: laptops, cameras, televisions, mobile phones, 
>>radio stations, and so on. It is facing to wholesalers,retailers, and 
>>personal customer all over the world. Original Products + Best Quality 
>>+Brand New + Warranty + Quick Shipping + 100% Secure = 100% satisfied.
>>
>>For more, please visit (www.)tpvsw.com
>>_________________________________________________________________
>>Lauren found her dream laptop. Find the PC that's right for you.
>>http://www.microsoft.com/windows/choosepc/?ocid=ftp_val_wl_290
>>_______________________________________________
>>blindlaw mailing list
>>blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>>blindlaw:
>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40visi.com
>>
>>
>>__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus 
>>signature database 4142 (20090609) __________
>>
>>The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.
>>
>>http://www.eset.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/darlene.olsen%40gmail.com 



From dandrews at visi.com  Thu Jun 11 01:28:58 2009
From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews)
Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 20:28:58 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] hello
In-Reply-To: <F0AAA1C2F2BA47CFB34597713AA94F38@DarleneOlsen>
References: <BLU139-W370AC8A20AC4E93A86EEBBD4440@phx.gbl>
	<auto-000102790467@mailfront1.g2host.com>
	<F0AAA1C2F2BA47CFB34597713AA94F38@DarleneOlsen>
Message-ID: <auto-000102800996@mailfront1.g2host.com>

The post didn't come from you so don't worry.  Just keep your 
antivirus software up to date.

Dave

At 07:40 PM 6/10/2009, you wrote:
>Mr. Andrews:
>     I am a prelaw student.  I just graduated from Napa Valley 
> College and thought it would be wonderful to see what makes a good 
> attorney,  Two years ago I lost my euyesight.  I finished all the 
> required paralegal classes before most of my eye sight was lost.  I 
> would never send messages of selling merchandise.  I opened 
> something that was from a mail list member called Krugman and it 
> was selling me a new mortage finance rate.  I tried to exscape and 
> it hung on to say, wait ... I wondered what happened.  I thought it 
> was something to do with a talking watch item.  I was curious 
> because I have four of them.  I have integrity and honesty to never 
> violate communication between people.  I did not send you a silly 
> advertisement.  I pay attention to the postings for the opportunity to learn,.
>Respectfully yours,
>Darlene Olsen
>
>----- Original Message ----- From: "David Andrews" <dandrews at visi.com>
>To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2009 4:00 PM
>Subject: Re: [blindlaw] hello
>
>
>>If you continue posting these messages to nfbnet.org lists you will 
>>be permanently banned from all our lists.
>>
>>Dave
>>
>>At 01:05 PM 6/9/2009, you wrote:
>>
>>>Dear friend,
>>>
>>>Sorry to disturb you because of this message! I would like to 
>>>introduce a good company who trades mainly in electornic products. 
>>>Our company mainly in electronic products: laptops, cameras, 
>>>televisions, mobile phones, radio stations, and so on. It is 
>>>facing to wholesalers,retailers, and personal customer all over 
>>>the world. Original Products + Best Quality +Brand New + Warranty 
>>>+ Quick Shipping + 100% Secure = 100% satisfied.
>>>
>>>For more, please visit (www.)tpvsw.com
>>>_________________________________________________________________
>>>Lauren found her dream laptop. Find the PC that's right for you.
>>>http://www.microsoft.com/windows/choosepc/?ocid=ftp_val_wl_290
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>blindlaw mailing list
>>>blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>for blindlaw:
>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40visi.com
>>>
>>>
>>>__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus 
>>>signature database 4142 (20090609) __________
>>>
>>>The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.
>>>
>>>http://www.eset.com
>>
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>blindlaw mailing list
>>blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>for blindlaw:
>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/darlene.olsen%40gmail.com 
>>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>blindlaw mailing list
>blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>for blindlaw:
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40visi.com
>
>
>__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus 
>signature database 4145 (20090610) __________
>
>The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.
>
>http://www.eset.com
>
>



From b75205 at gmail.com  Thu Jun 11 02:47:44 2009
From: b75205 at gmail.com (James Pepper)
Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 21:47:44 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] The Census does not track the blind
In-Reply-To: <F998B287955043648A167118B0EA9122@StevePC>
References: <20090609033819.GD18034@yumi.bluecherry.net>
	<F405FAAA797B4605A397A8FED1FB73F2@spike>
	<20090609141019.GI18034@yumi.bluecherry.net>
	<fe5b78280906090950h2974859ao745a811589a019e@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090609211528.GB684@yumi.bluecherry.net>
	<fe5b78280906091528y2e1a49dao38c951015f31ef12@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090610194406.GN1330@yumi.bluecherry.net>
	<F998B287955043648A167118B0EA9122@StevePC>
Message-ID: <fe5b78280906101947x2dbbd83dh6f1c3fc431206b11@mail.gmail.com>

Sorry to burst your bubble but the census is not taken perfectly and there
has always been missing information.  All you have to do is just look at
their records and you can see that some date for some states simply is not
taken in.  If it were perfect we wouldn't be having court cases on
redistricting.

The census did a survey of 18 to 34 year olds in 2006 and that survey was
missing information on several states.  Did that stop them from publishing
the results, of course not.

There is still time to take the census and to get all of the information and
saying oh no it is going to be inconvenient is not going to get the job
done.  Everything is inconvenient, so what we still get the job done.

You are a statitician you want it all to be perfect, it never is perfect.

James Pepper

From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net  Thu Jun 11 09:25:51 2009
From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net)
Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 02:25:51 -0700
Subject: [blindlaw] ramifications of receiving Target settlement check for
	SSI recipients
Message-ID: <DD01A1BAD9044775A65CB6C6D43BF548@spike>

Recently I was contacted by a chapter member who was a recipient of the Target settlement check. He is receiving SSI and is concerned about protecting his settlement check and benefits. Was this issue addressed or does anyone have suggestions. I think it might be a little late for a special needs trust to be established. Let me know.
Chuck

From JChwalow at nfb.org  Thu Jun 11 11:48:42 2009
From: JChwalow at nfb.org (Chwalow, Judith)
Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 07:48:42 -0400
Subject: [blindlaw] The Census does not track the blind
In-Reply-To: <F998B287955043648A167118B0EA9122@StevePC>
References: <20090609033819.GD18034@yumi.bluecherry.net><F405FAAA797B4605A397A8FED1FB73F2@spike><20090609141019.GI18034@yumi.bluecherry.net><fe5b78280906090950h2974859ao745a811589a019e@mail.gmail.com><20090609211528.GB684@yumi.bluecherry.net><fe5b78280906091528y2e1a49dao38c951015f31ef12@mail.gmail.com><20090610194406.GN1330@yumi.bluecherry.net>
	<F998B287955043648A167118B0EA9122@StevePC>
Message-ID: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6BF00444@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local>

No,

But the American Community Survey, a 3,000,000 representative survey of
a subset of the census does.

A. Judith Chwalow, DrPH
Director of Research, Jernigan Institute
National Federation of the Blind
1800 Johnson Street
Baltimore, MD 21230
410 659 9314 x2404
jchwalow at NFB.org
 

-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
On Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley
Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2009 6:12 PM
To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] The Census does not track the blind

OK, does the US census ask specific questions about the number of blind
people living in your house?

Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: "T. Joseph Carter" <carter.tjoseph at gmail.com>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2009 3:44 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] The Census does not track the blind


> James,
>
> Collecting different data in only some locations is by definition
> INVALID.  You want descriptive statistics.  That's what the census
> is, descriptive statistics.  Unlike inferential statistics, where
> predictions of whole populations are taken from small samples and
> mathematics are used to determine the probability that those
> predictions are true, descriptive statistics are hard data.  The
> census is hard data for the entire population of the United States.
>
> Statistics on SOME people who are blind cannot be done.  Neither can
> it be MOST people.  Unless it is 100% of the population (or much
> greater than 99% that the census bureau has determined to be close
> enough because of the cost and logistics of ensuring that every
> single man, woman, and child is properly counted), then the statistic
> cannot be part of the US census results.
>
> If 10% of the country has been surveyed already, it's far too late.
> In fact, if even 1% of the country has been surveyed, it would be too
> late.
>
> You are single-mindedly pushing for and advocating a lie, claiming it
> to be a civil right.  You have rejected rational explanation of why
> what you insist must be done in fact cannot be at this time.  Your
> only defense of your position is that it must be possible, though you
> have no plan for actually doing so.
>
> I tell you flatly that it is not possible without an immediate halt
> to census-taking and a purge of all data collected to date, followed
> by a media campaign to inform everyone that census data must be
> re-taken in any area that has already been surveyed.  My guess is
> that it would cost hundreds of millions of dollars to do that at this
> point.
>
> The train has left the station.  You weren't on it.  The world will
> not turn back time so that you can board before the final whistle.
>
> Joseph
>
>
> On Tue, Jun 09, 2009 at 05:28:23PM -0500, James Pepper wrote:
>>It is never too late, and what we need is to bring this up at the
>>convention. We really do not need Oregon's results anyway the census
takes
>>data from all over the place and many states do not cooperate with all
of
>>the census taking anyway, so whats the problem?
>>
>>Also we should get the AAPD involved in this effort.
>>But what we definitely need is some idea as to how many people are 
>>affected,
>>what is their economic position, did they go to college, did they get
a
>>degree, this stuff is essential to developing policy and waiting for
this 
>>to
>>happen 10 years from now will not do!
>>
>>This is a civil rights issue and if we go around saying oh no  we
cannot
>>upset the apple cart then fine we will go around you.
>>
>>James Pepper
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%
40insightbb.com


------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------



No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.62/2168 - Release Date:
06/10/09 
18:30:00


_______________________________________________
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.org


From JMcCarthy at nfb.org  Thu Jun 11 13:22:32 2009
From: JMcCarthy at nfb.org (McCarthy, Jim)
Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 09:22:32 -0400
Subject: [blindlaw] ramifications of receiving Target settlement check
	forSSI recipients
In-Reply-To: <DD01A1BAD9044775A65CB6C6D43BF548@spike>
Message-ID: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6B26D8F4@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local>

Chuck and others,
We at the National Center for the Blind have begun to receive calls on
the same point.  I reached out to one of the lawyers and suggested that
individuals need to know the basic consequences of their receiving money
from the Target settlement.  However, the means to best convey that
information to a large class of diverse members poses some challenges
and I am not sure how it will be addressed at this time.  I do think
some basic information on this list is not a bad idea though because
many of us may have contact with folks who get SSI and have received
Target Settlement funds.

Unfortunately, there is no income or resource exclusion in SSI for
settlements of civil rights cases as this clearly is.  As for the
possibility of a special needs trust, I doubt that the amounts are
significant enough to make a trust really feasible and I imagine you are
also right regarding timing.  The basic SSI rule applies.  The funds,
between $3,500 and $7,000, as I understand the amounts, are unearned
income when received.  That means all but $20 is counted when
determining whether an SSI benefit is available.  Needless to say, in
the month of receipt, no check is available.  In the next full calendar
month, the funds become a resource.  An individual is allowed a total of
$2,000 in resources so for as long as the total exceeds that amount, the
individual is not entitled to an SSI benefit.  The final thing I will
say about this is that if anyone in California wants to give advice to
chapter members, friends etc. receiving SSI who are entitled to funds
from the Target settlement, discourage people from putting the
settlement money under the mattress.  The rules I mentioned above kick
in on receipt of the money and it is pretty clear within perhaps a day
or so, when each person received their money.  Holding it thinking or
hoping SSI will not come to know is a very bad strategy that will not
work.
Jim McCarthy

-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
On Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 5:26 AM
To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
Subject: [blindlaw] ramifications of receiving Target settlement check
forSSI recipients

Recently I was contacted by a chapter member who was a recipient of the
Target settlement check. He is receiving SSI and is concerned about
protecting his settlement check and benefits. Was this issue addressed
or does anyone have suggestions. I think it might be a little late for a
special needs trust to be established. Let me know.
Chuck
_______________________________________________
blindlaw mailing list
blindlaw at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
blindlaw:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jmccarthy%40nf
b.org


From stevep.deeley at insightbb.com  Thu Jun 11 15:57:39 2009
From: stevep.deeley at insightbb.com (Steve P. Deeley)
Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 11:57:39 -0400
Subject: [blindlaw] ramifications of receiving Target settlement
	checkforSSI recipients
In-Reply-To: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6B26D8F4@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local>
References: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6B26D8F4@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local>
Message-ID: <0A31124886164D35BD28CDB7B5BB0C88@StevePC>

SSI recipients, welcome to the real world!!

Steve
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "McCarthy, Jim" <JMcCarthy at nfb.org>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 9:22 AM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ramifications of receiving Target settlement 
checkforSSI recipients


> Chuck and others,
> We at the National Center for the Blind have begun to receive calls on
> the same point.  I reached out to one of the lawyers and suggested that
> individuals need to know the basic consequences of their receiving money
> from the Target settlement.  However, the means to best convey that
> information to a large class of diverse members poses some challenges
> and I am not sure how it will be addressed at this time.  I do think
> some basic information on this list is not a bad idea though because
> many of us may have contact with folks who get SSI and have received
> Target Settlement funds.
>
> Unfortunately, there is no income or resource exclusion in SSI for
> settlements of civil rights cases as this clearly is.  As for the
> possibility of a special needs trust, I doubt that the amounts are
> significant enough to make a trust really feasible and I imagine you are
> also right regarding timing.  The basic SSI rule applies.  The funds,
> between $3,500 and $7,000, as I understand the amounts, are unearned
> income when received.  That means all but $20 is counted when
> determining whether an SSI benefit is available.  Needless to say, in
> the month of receipt, no check is available.  In the next full calendar
> month, the funds become a resource.  An individual is allowed a total of
> $2,000 in resources so for as long as the total exceeds that amount, the
> individual is not entitled to an SSI benefit.  The final thing I will
> say about this is that if anyone in California wants to give advice to
> chapter members, friends etc. receiving SSI who are entitled to funds
> from the Target settlement, discourage people from putting the
> settlement money under the mattress.  The rules I mentioned above kick
> in on receipt of the money and it is pretty clear within perhaps a day
> or so, when each person received their money.  Holding it thinking or
> hoping SSI will not come to know is a very bad strategy that will not
> work.
> Jim McCarthy
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
> On Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net
> Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 5:26 AM
> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
> Subject: [blindlaw] ramifications of receiving Target settlement check
> forSSI recipients
>
> Recently I was contacted by a chapter member who was a recipient of the
> Target settlement check. He is receiving SSI and is concerned about
> protecting his settlement check and benefits. Was this issue addressed
> or does anyone have suggestions. I think it might be a little late for a
> special needs trust to be established. Let me know.
> Chuck
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jmccarthy%40nf
> b.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.63/2169 - Release Date: 06/11/09 
05:53:00



From b75205 at gmail.com  Thu Jun 11 16:06:15 2009
From: b75205 at gmail.com (James Pepper)
Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 11:06:15 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] The Census does not track the blind
In-Reply-To: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6BF00444@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local>
References: <20090609033819.GD18034@yumi.bluecherry.net>
	<F405FAAA797B4605A397A8FED1FB73F2@spike>
	<20090609141019.GI18034@yumi.bluecherry.net>
	<fe5b78280906090950h2974859ao745a811589a019e@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090609211528.GB684@yumi.bluecherry.net>
	<fe5b78280906091528y2e1a49dao38c951015f31ef12@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090610194406.GN1330@yumi.bluecherry.net>
	<F998B287955043648A167118B0EA9122@StevePC>
	<7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6BF00444@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local>
Message-ID: <fe5b78280906110906w5a140068y2fe91135cc332dcc@mail.gmail.com>

The American Community Survey only tracks the senosry impaired.   That
incluides the deaf.  We need to know about the blind, the deaf blind, the
visually impaired and the color blind.  We need to know the status of the
blind in society, where we need to change things and we cannot do that when
the government does not track this specific minority.  Including us in a
general class is not going to do it.

There is no reason to ignore the blind and we need this done NOW, not 10
years from now, NOW.  All of this should have been done 36 years ago with
the passing of the Rehabilitation Act.

Our economy spends 50 billion dollars a year on the blind, most of that is
in government payouts to support the blind. The US Government pays out
$266,000 to each blind person over their lifetime on average in public
assistance.  If you mutliply the 50 billion figure over the past 36 years of
the Rehabilitation Act, the US economy has spent 1.8 Trillion dollars on the
blind.  The US government should be tracking the results of that expenditure
but it is not doing it, because the results are terrible.

So who cares if the census is going to have to be redone, do we have to
spend another 500 billion dollars to wait for a real census just so the
government policies can maintain us at a 70% unemployement rate?

James Pepper

From JMcCarthy at nfb.org  Thu Jun 11 16:59:41 2009
From: JMcCarthy at nfb.org (McCarthy, Jim)
Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 12:59:41 -0400
Subject: [blindlaw] ramifications of receiving Target
	settlementcheckforSSI recipients
In-Reply-To: <0A31124886164D35BD28CDB7B5BB0C88@StevePC>
Message-ID: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6B26D8F5@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local>

In my opinion, a public statement like "welcome to the real world is a
statement full of judgment that really does not add anything of value to
this discussion.  It may be your opinion and you are absolutely entitled
to have it.  The goal of the post though was only to address an issue
that I am sure will come up over and over again.  Correct information
should aid people in their decision making and that was my primary
objective in posting.
Jim McCarthy 

-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
On Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 11:58 AM
To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ramifications of receiving Target
settlementcheckforSSI recipients

SSI recipients, welcome to the real world!!

Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: "McCarthy, Jim" <JMcCarthy at nfb.org>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 9:22 AM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ramifications of receiving Target settlement
checkforSSI recipients


> Chuck and others,
> We at the National Center for the Blind have begun to receive calls on

> the same point.  I reached out to one of the lawyers and suggested 
> that individuals need to know the basic consequences of their 
> receiving money from the Target settlement.  However, the means to 
> best convey that information to a large class of diverse members poses

> some challenges and I am not sure how it will be addressed at this 
> time.  I do think some basic information on this list is not a bad 
> idea though because many of us may have contact with folks who get SSI

> and have received Target Settlement funds.
>
> Unfortunately, there is no income or resource exclusion in SSI for 
> settlements of civil rights cases as this clearly is.  As for the 
> possibility of a special needs trust, I doubt that the amounts are 
> significant enough to make a trust really feasible and I imagine you 
> are also right regarding timing.  The basic SSI rule applies.  The 
> funds, between $3,500 and $7,000, as I understand the amounts, are 
> unearned income when received.  That means all but $20 is counted when

> determining whether an SSI benefit is available.  Needless to say, in 
> the month of receipt, no check is available.  In the next full 
> calendar month, the funds become a resource.  An individual is allowed

> a total of $2,000 in resources so for as long as the total exceeds 
> that amount, the individual is not entitled to an SSI benefit.  The 
> final thing I will say about this is that if anyone in California 
> wants to give advice to chapter members, friends etc. receiving SSI 
> who are entitled to funds from the Target settlement, discourage 
> people from putting the settlement money under the mattress.  The 
> rules I mentioned above kick in on receipt of the money and it is 
> pretty clear within perhaps a day or so, when each person received 
> their money.  Holding it thinking or hoping SSI will not come to know 
> is a very bad strategy that will not work.
> Jim McCarthy
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
> On Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net
> Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 5:26 AM
> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
> Subject: [blindlaw] ramifications of receiving Target settlement check

> forSSI recipients
>
> Recently I was contacted by a chapter member who was a recipient of 
> the Target settlement check. He is receiving SSI and is concerned 
> about protecting his settlement check and benefits. Was this issue 
> addressed or does anyone have suggestions. I think it might be a 
> little late for a special needs trust to be established. Let me know.
> Chuck
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jmccarthy%40
> nf
> b.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deele
> y%40insightbb.com


------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------



No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.63/2169 - Release Date:
06/11/09 05:53:00


_______________________________________________
blindlaw mailing list
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http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
blindlaw:
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b.org


From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov  Thu Jun 11 17:28:36 2009
From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel)
Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 12:28:36 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] ABA YLD Reminder: Scholarship Deadline 6/15 -
	Ref#19332020
Message-ID: <E771EAA0575B844C98712011AE73D7ED3ADA0A2C1C@EDUPTCEXMB03.ed.gov>


American Bar Association Young Lawyers Division

Celebrating 75 years of Public Service and Education

June 15:  Scholarship Application Deadline  Apply for the ABA YLD's Minority, Solo/Small Firm, Government, Private Sector, and Military Service scholarship program
  by June 15.  The program provides partial conference funding and an opportunity to become more involved in the Division.

________________________________

About the Division
The American Bar Association Young Lawyers Division
  (ABA YLD) is the home for young lawyers. With over 150,000 members and 300 affiliated groups, the ABA YLD is the largest young lawyer organization in the world. 

The Division is committed to assuring it is best able to represent the newest members of the profession, ensuring that it reflects the society it serves, and providing young lawyers with the tools and opportunities for professional and personal success.  The Division also supports the activities of its Fellows, ABA members once active in the Division who have "aged out".

Individual membership is open to American Bar Association members under
36 years old or admitted to practice for five years or less.
Affiliate
membership is open to young lawyer organizations and special interest bars. 

Your e-mail address will only be used within the ABA and its entities.
We do not sell or rent e-mail addresses to anyone outside the ABA.
Update your profile

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American Bar Association | 321 N Clark | Chicago, IL 60654-7598 |
1-800-285-2221



From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov  Thu Jun 11 18:06:46 2009
From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel)
Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 13:06:46 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] FW: IMMEDIATE ATTENTION REQUIRED: ABA Conference
 Scholarships Available
Message-ID: <E771EAA0575B844C98712011AE73D7ED3ADA0A2C1D@EDUPTCEXMB03.ed.gov>



________________________________
From: CMPDL's Disability Discussion Docket (3D) [mailto:CMPDL-3D at MAIL.ABANET.ORG] On Behalf Of Phelan, William
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 8:27 AM
To: CMPDL-3D at MAIL.ABANET.ORG
Subject: IMMEDIATE ATTENTION REQUIRED: ABA Conference Scholarships Available
Importance: High

The ABA Commission on Mental and Physical Disability Law is pleased to announce that emergency funds have become available to give out four partial scholarships for the 2nd ABA National Conference on the Employment of Lawyers with Disabilities. These four scholarships will only cover the recipient's registration, meals, and CLE materials for the Conference. They will not cover travel or lodging in Washington, DC. They will be given on a first-come-first served basis to those who meet the following criteria:


 1.  A lawyer or law student with a disability
 2.  An ABA member
 3.  Can demonstrate financial need for the scholarship in some fashion

Please contact me at the information below to take advantage of this opportunity.

Please distribute this e-mail, especially to those in the DC area.

This offer will expire at 4:30PM EST today, Thursday, June 11, 2009.

For more information on the Conference, please visit:
http://new.abanet.org/calendar/2nd-National-Conference-on-Employment-of-Lawyers-with-Disabilities/Pages/default.aspx

Thank you for your attention.


William J. Phelan, IV, Esq.
Special Projects and Technology Coordinator
Commission on Mental and Physical Disability Law
American Bar Association
740 15th Street, NW, 9th Floor
Washington, DC 20005-1022

T: 202.662.1576
F: 202.442.3439
phelanw at staff.abanet.org<mailto:phelanw at staff.abanet.org>
www.abanet.org/disability<http://www.abanet.org/disability>

---------

[http://www.abanet.org/disability/images/3Dlogo.jpg]

Disability Discussion Docket (3D)
ABA Commission on Mental and Physical Disability Law
http://www.abanet.org/disability

---------

To leave this list at any time, please send a message to listserv at mail.abanet.org. In the body of the message type "sign off cmpdl-3d."
If you have any questions about 3D or the CMPDL in general, please contact William Phelan at phelanw at staff.abanet.org.

From roddj12 at hotmail.com  Thu Jun 11 18:18:22 2009
From: roddj12 at hotmail.com (Rod Alcidonis)
Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 14:18:22 -0400
Subject: [blindlaw] ramifications of receiving
	TargetsettlementcheckforSSI recipients
References: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6B26D8F5@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local>
Message-ID: <BAY105-DAV115C1B85DBF4E80D5A8BBBBB420@phx.gbl>

Jim:

Please, please, do not further engage the person who made this statement to 
prolong an unnecessary debate. His reputation for making such statements is 
and should be well known on the list. His statements are usually devoid of 
any logical force and sincerety, but pact with political statements 
regarding the fairness of individuals receiving benefits which they are 
legally entitled to receive.

Take care.

Rod Alcidonis, J.D.
C. 718-704-4651
roddj12 at hotmail.com

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "McCarthy, Jim" <JMcCarthy at nfb.org>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 12:59 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ramifications of receiving 
TargetsettlementcheckforSSI recipients


> In my opinion, a public statement like "welcome to the real world is a
> statement full of judgment that really does not add anything of value to
> this discussion.  It may be your opinion and you are absolutely entitled
> to have it.  The goal of the post though was only to address an issue
> that I am sure will come up over and over again.  Correct information
> should aid people in their decision making and that was my primary
> objective in posting.
> Jim McCarthy
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
> On Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley
> Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 11:58 AM
> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ramifications of receiving Target
> settlementcheckforSSI recipients
>
> SSI recipients, welcome to the real world!!
>
> Steve
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "McCarthy, Jim" <JMcCarthy at nfb.org>
> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 9:22 AM
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ramifications of receiving Target settlement
> checkforSSI recipients
>
>
>> Chuck and others,
>> We at the National Center for the Blind have begun to receive calls on
>
>> the same point.  I reached out to one of the lawyers and suggested
>> that individuals need to know the basic consequences of their
>> receiving money from the Target settlement.  However, the means to
>> best convey that information to a large class of diverse members poses
>
>> some challenges and I am not sure how it will be addressed at this
>> time.  I do think some basic information on this list is not a bad
>> idea though because many of us may have contact with folks who get SSI
>
>> and have received Target Settlement funds.
>>
>> Unfortunately, there is no income or resource exclusion in SSI for
>> settlements of civil rights cases as this clearly is.  As for the
>> possibility of a special needs trust, I doubt that the amounts are
>> significant enough to make a trust really feasible and I imagine you
>> are also right regarding timing.  The basic SSI rule applies.  The
>> funds, between $3,500 and $7,000, as I understand the amounts, are
>> unearned income when received.  That means all but $20 is counted when
>
>> determining whether an SSI benefit is available.  Needless to say, in
>> the month of receipt, no check is available.  In the next full
>> calendar month, the funds become a resource.  An individual is allowed
>
>> a total of $2,000 in resources so for as long as the total exceeds
>> that amount, the individual is not entitled to an SSI benefit.  The
>> final thing I will say about this is that if anyone in California
>> wants to give advice to chapter members, friends etc. receiving SSI
>> who are entitled to funds from the Target settlement, discourage
>> people from putting the settlement money under the mattress.  The
>> rules I mentioned above kick in on receipt of the money and it is
>> pretty clear within perhaps a day or so, when each person received
>> their money.  Holding it thinking or hoping SSI will not come to know
>> is a very bad strategy that will not work.
>> Jim McCarthy
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>> On Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net
>> Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 5:26 AM
>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>> Subject: [blindlaw] ramifications of receiving Target settlement check
>
>> forSSI recipients
>>
>> Recently I was contacted by a chapter member who was a recipient of
>> the Target settlement check. He is receiving SSI and is concerned
>> about protecting his settlement check and benefits. Was this issue
>> addressed or does anyone have suggestions. I think it might be a
>> little late for a special needs trust to be established. Let me know.
>> Chuck
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindlaw:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jmccarthy%40
>> nf
>> b.org
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindlaw:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deele
>> y%40insightbb.com
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> --------
>
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.63/2169 - Release Date:
> 06/11/09 05:53:00
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jmccarthy%40nf
> b.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail.com
> 



From stevep.deeley at insightbb.com  Thu Jun 11 19:08:57 2009
From: stevep.deeley at insightbb.com (Steve P. Deeley)
Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 15:08:57 -0400
Subject: [blindlaw] The Census does not track the blind
In-Reply-To: <fe5b78280906110906w5a140068y2fe91135cc332dcc@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20090609033819.GD18034@yumi.bluecherry.net>
	<F405FAAA797B4605A397A8FED1FB73F2@spike>
	<20090609141019.GI18034@yumi.bluecherry.net>
	<fe5b78280906090950h2974859ao745a811589a019e@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090609211528.GB684@yumi.bluecherry.net>
	<fe5b78280906091528y2e1a49dao38c951015f31ef12@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090610194406.GN1330@yumi.bluecherry.net>
	<F998B287955043648A167118B0EA9122@StevePC>
	<7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6BF00444@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local>
	<fe5b78280906110906w5a140068y2fe91135cc332dcc@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <933A9FCB71AD4A4EA0BFD5FB35CD45CA@StevePC>

Where did you get these stats; they are very interesting.

Steve
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "James Pepper" <b75205 at gmail.com>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 12:06 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] The Census does not track the blind


> The American Community Survey only tracks the senosry impaired.   That
> incluides the deaf.  We need to know about the blind, the deaf blind, the
> visually impaired and the color blind.  We need to know the status of the
> blind in society, where we need to change things and we cannot do that 
> when
> the government does not track this specific minority.  Including us in a
> general class is not going to do it.
>
> There is no reason to ignore the blind and we need this done NOW, not 10
> years from now, NOW.  All of this should have been done 36 years ago with
> the passing of the Rehabilitation Act.
>
> Our economy spends 50 billion dollars a year on the blind, most of that is
> in government payouts to support the blind. The US Government pays out
> $266,000 to each blind person over their lifetime on average in public
> assistance.  If you mutliply the 50 billion figure over the past 36 years 
> of
> the Rehabilitation Act, the US economy has spent 1.8 Trillion dollars on 
> the
> blind.  The US government should be tracking the results of that 
> expenditure
> but it is not doing it, because the results are terrible.
>
> So who cares if the census is going to have to be redone, do we have to
> spend another 500 billion dollars to wait for a real census just so the
> government policies can maintain us at a 70% unemployement rate?
>
> James Pepper
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.63/2169 - Release Date: 06/11/09 
05:53:00



From b75205 at gmail.com  Thu Jun 11 20:12:02 2009
From: b75205 at gmail.com (James Pepper)
Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 15:12:02 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] ramifications of receiving Target settlement check
	for SSI recipients
In-Reply-To: <DD01A1BAD9044775A65CB6C6D43BF548@spike>
References: <DD01A1BAD9044775A65CB6C6D43BF548@spike>
Message-ID: <fe5b78280906111312nc6f2617mbcdabbaa30a33f57@mail.gmail.com>

So in the future should the amounts collected from companies such as Target
be directed to a specific institution to provide services for the blind?
Some way to get around this problem of the SSI beneificaries loosing not
only the money but thier medications etc.?

We need a clear layout of how to solve these problems without negating the
solution.

James Pepper

From stevep.deeley at insightbb.com  Thu Jun 11 21:41:06 2009
From: stevep.deeley at insightbb.com (Steve P. Deeley)
Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 17:41:06 -0400
Subject: [blindlaw] ramifications of
	receiving	TargetsettlementcheckforSSI recipients
In-Reply-To: <BAY105-DAV115C1B85DBF4E80D5A8BBBBB420@phx.gbl>
References: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6B26D8F5@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local>
	<BAY105-DAV115C1B85DBF4E80D5A8BBBBB420@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <399F8A1F74E746AEB2A5040FCB0EAC41@StevePC>

Let me tell you something.  I'm not making any judgments, however, I will 
tell you that my wife and I pay a great deal of taxes.  Let these folks pay 
there fair share of taxes on the money they received from the judgment 
against target.  You are correct, I certainly don't agree with the judgment, 
however, that is a subject for another time.  I will not make further 
statements concerning SSI recipients attempting to protect their
SSI payments after receiving money from the Target action.  My reasoned 
opinions are just as valid as your view on the subject matter.
Steve
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Rod Alcidonis" <roddj12 at hotmail.com>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 2:18 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ramifications of receiving 
TargetsettlementcheckforSSI recipients


> Jim:
>
> Please, please, do not further engage the person who made this statement 
> to
> prolong an unnecessary debate. His reputation for making such statements 
> is
> and should be well known on the list. His statements are usually devoid of
> any logical force and sincerety, but pact with political statements
> regarding the fairness of individuals receiving benefits which they are
> legally entitled to receive.
>
> Take care.
>
> Rod Alcidonis, J.D.
> C. 718-704-4651
> roddj12 at hotmail.com
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "McCarthy, Jim" <JMcCarthy at nfb.org>
> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 12:59 PM
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ramifications of receiving
> TargetsettlementcheckforSSI recipients
>
>
>> In my opinion, a public statement like "welcome to the real world is a
>> statement full of judgment that really does not add anything of value to
>> this discussion.  It may be your opinion and you are absolutely entitled
>> to have it.  The goal of the post though was only to address an issue
>> that I am sure will come up over and over again.  Correct information
>> should aid people in their decision making and that was my primary
>> objective in posting.
>> Jim McCarthy
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>> On Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley
>> Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 11:58 AM
>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ramifications of receiving Target
>> settlementcheckforSSI recipients
>>
>> SSI recipients, welcome to the real world!!
>>
>> Steve
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "McCarthy, Jim" <JMcCarthy at nfb.org>
>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 9:22 AM
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ramifications of receiving Target settlement
>> checkforSSI recipients
>>
>>
>>> Chuck and others,
>>> We at the National Center for the Blind have begun to receive calls on
>>
>>> the same point.  I reached out to one of the lawyers and suggested
>>> that individuals need to know the basic consequences of their
>>> receiving money from the Target settlement.  However, the means to
>>> best convey that information to a large class of diverse members poses
>>
>>> some challenges and I am not sure how it will be addressed at this
>>> time.  I do think some basic information on this list is not a bad
>>> idea though because many of us may have contact with folks who get SSI
>>
>>> and have received Target Settlement funds.
>>>
>>> Unfortunately, there is no income or resource exclusion in SSI for
>>> settlements of civil rights cases as this clearly is.  As for the
>>> possibility of a special needs trust, I doubt that the amounts are
>>> significant enough to make a trust really feasible and I imagine you
>>> are also right regarding timing.  The basic SSI rule applies.  The
>>> funds, between $3,500 and $7,000, as I understand the amounts, are
>>> unearned income when received.  That means all but $20 is counted when
>>
>>> determining whether an SSI benefit is available.  Needless to say, in
>>> the month of receipt, no check is available.  In the next full
>>> calendar month, the funds become a resource.  An individual is allowed
>>
>>> a total of $2,000 in resources so for as long as the total exceeds
>>> that amount, the individual is not entitled to an SSI benefit.  The
>>> final thing I will say about this is that if anyone in California
>>> wants to give advice to chapter members, friends etc. receiving SSI
>>> who are entitled to funds from the Target settlement, discourage
>>> people from putting the settlement money under the mattress.  The
>>> rules I mentioned above kick in on receipt of the money and it is
>>> pretty clear within perhaps a day or so, when each person received
>>> their money.  Holding it thinking or hoping SSI will not come to know
>>> is a very bad strategy that will not work.
>>> Jim McCarthy
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>> On Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net
>>> Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 5:26 AM
>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>>> Subject: [blindlaw] ramifications of receiving Target settlement check
>>
>>> forSSI recipients
>>>
>>> Recently I was contacted by a chapter member who was a recipient of
>>> the Target settlement check. He is receiving SSI and is concerned
>>> about protecting his settlement check and benefits. Was this issue
>>> addressed or does anyone have suggestions. I think it might be a
>>> little late for a special needs trust to be established. Let me know.
>>> Chuck
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> blindlaw:
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jmccarthy%40
>>> nf
>>> b.org
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> blindlaw:
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deele
>>> y%40insightbb.com
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> --------
>>
>>
>>
>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>> Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.63/2169 - Release Date:
>> 06/11/09 05:53:00
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindlaw:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jmccarthy%40nf
>> b.org
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindlaw:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail.com
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.63/2169 - Release Date: 06/11/09 
05:53:00



From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net  Thu Jun 11 22:10:24 2009
From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net)
Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 15:10:24 -0700
Subject: [blindlaw] The Census does not track the blind
In-Reply-To: <fe5b78280906110906w5a140068y2fe91135cc332dcc@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20090609033819.GD18034@yumi.bluecherry.net><F405FAAA797B4605A397A8FED1FB73F2@spike><20090609141019.GI18034@yumi.bluecherry.net><fe5b78280906090950h2974859ao745a811589a019e@mail.gmail.com><20090609211528.GB684@yumi.bluecherry.net><fe5b78280906091528y2e1a49dao38c951015f31ef12@mail.gmail.com><20090610194406.GN1330@yumi.bluecherry.net><F998B287955043648A167118B0EA9122@StevePC><7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6BF00444@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local>
	<fe5b78280906110906w5a140068y2fe91135cc332dcc@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2ECDDE389BCC4E82B855436410A15400@spike>

and its pretty pathetic that with all this so-called or investment the blind 
have an unemployment rate of over 70%. Due to the lack of planning for 
employment and effective support if this were a business proposal the rate 
of return would be pretty poor based on the way the government has handled 
support and enforcement of laws affecting the blind.
Chuck
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "James Pepper" <b75205 at gmail.com>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 9:06 AM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] The Census does not track the blind


> The American Community Survey only tracks the senosry impaired.   That
> incluides the deaf.  We need to know about the blind, the deaf blind, the
> visually impaired and the color blind.  We need to know the status of the
> blind in society, where we need to change things and we cannot do that 
> when
> the government does not track this specific minority.  Including us in a
> general class is not going to do it.
>
> There is no reason to ignore the blind and we need this done NOW, not 10
> years from now, NOW.  All of this should have been done 36 years ago with
> the passing of the Rehabilitation Act.
>
> Our economy spends 50 billion dollars a year on the blind, most of that is
> in government payouts to support the blind. The US Government pays out
> $266,000 to each blind person over their lifetime on average in public
> assistance.  If you mutliply the 50 billion figure over the past 36 years 
> of
> the Rehabilitation Act, the US economy has spent 1.8 Trillion dollars on 
> the
> blind.  The US government should be tracking the results of that 
> expenditure
> but it is not doing it, because the results are terrible.
>
> So who cares if the census is going to have to be redone, do we have to
> spend another 500 billion dollars to wait for a real census just so the
> government policies can maintain us at a 70% unemployement rate?
>
> James Pepper
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net 



From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov  Thu Jun 11 22:32:44 2009
From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel)
Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 17:32:44 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] FW: [Jobs] FW: Job Opportunity With the Department of
 Justice/Please	Share this information wih interested NBA members
Message-ID: <E771EAA0575B844C98712011AE73D7ED3ADA0A2C26@EDUPTCEXMB03.ed.gov>



________________________________
From: jobs-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:jobs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Maurer, Patricia
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 12:30 PM
To: jobs at nfbnet.org
Subject: [Jobs] FW: Job Opportunity With the Department of Justice/Please Share this information wih interested NBA members



________________________________
From: Leake, Staci (USAEO) [mailto:Staci.Leake at usdoj.gov]
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 1:22 PM
To: Taylor, Lisa (CRT); Lopez-Gomez, Mario F (CRT); Deerinwater, Verlin (CRT); Ho-Gonzalez, William (CRM); jobs at wcl.american.edu; mdoherty at wcl.american.edu; tdeavours at ushli.org; Maurer, Patricia; jakers at noblenatl.org; mrlen at worldnet.att.net; mlortiz at hnba.com; justin at lgbtbar.or; jgomez at ncai.org; hacu at hacu.net; info at napaba.org
Subject: Job Opportunity With the Department of Justice/Please Share this information wih interested NBA members


Please see below a summary of a career opportunity with the U.S. Department of Justice, Executive Office for United States Attorneys (EOUSA).   I ask that you distribute this vacancy announcement to the members of your organization and any other interested persons.   Detailed information regarding the position is found below.   If you have any questions or need additional information, do not hesitate to contact me at the number listed below.   Thank you for your assistance.

Staci Leake

Affirmative Employment Program Manager

Equal Employment Opportunity Staff

Executive Office for United States Attorneys

1331 Pennsylvania Avenue, NW, Suite 524-F

Washington, D.C.  20530

Phone:  (202) 616-6209

Fax:  (202) 305-1431

<<SESVacancyinEOUSA.pdf>>

MAJOR DUTIES OF THE DEPUTY DIRECTOR FOR ADMINISTRATION AND MANAGEMENT

The Deputy Director for Administration and Management manages administrative support service nearly 12,000 United States Attorney office employees in over 250 offices nationwide. The candidate selected for this position will manage a wide range of administrative programs including personnel budget and finance; security; facilities; procurement; litigative support; office automation; record management, and telecommunications. In addition, the Deputy Director coordinates efforts with Department of Justice components, other Executive Branch agencies, and the U.S. Court System position reports directly to the Principal Deputy Director of the Executive Office for United States Attorneys.

CLOSING DATE

July 6, 2009

FOR MORE INFORMATION, PLEASE VISIT USAJOBS.COM, Job Announcement Number 09-SES-EOUSA-001
-------------- next part --------------
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Name: SESVacancyinEOUSA.pdf
Type: application/pdf
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-------------- next part --------------
_______________________________________________
Jobs mailing list
Jobs at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/jobs_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Jobs:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/jobs_nfbnet.org/noel.nightingale%40ed.gov

From stevep.deeley at insightbb.com  Thu Jun 11 22:33:14 2009
From: stevep.deeley at insightbb.com (Steve P. Deeley)
Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 18:33:14 -0400
Subject: [blindlaw] ramifications of receiving Target settlement
	check	for SSI recipients
In-Reply-To: <fe5b78280906111312nc6f2617mbcdabbaa30a33f57@mail.gmail.com>
References: <DD01A1BAD9044775A65CB6C6D43BF548@spike>
	<fe5b78280906111312nc6f2617mbcdabbaa30a33f57@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7B623BF1BE5A44ADA677A5711717BF7C@StevePC>

Yes.

Steve
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "James Pepper" <b75205 at gmail.com>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 4:12 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ramifications of receiving Target settlement check 
for SSI recipients


> So in the future should the amounts collected from companies such as 
> Target
> be directed to a specific institution to provide services for the blind?
> Some way to get around this problem of the SSI beneificaries loosing not
> only the money but thier medications etc.?
>
> We need a clear layout of how to solve these problems without negating the
> solution.
>
> James Pepper
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



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Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
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17:59:00



From peagoody at worldnet.att.net  Thu Jun 11 22:48:22 2009
From: peagoody at worldnet.att.net (Ron Dixon)
Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 17:48:22 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] KNFB With Wayfinder
References: <8FBEDE9BD29D4872B9BA066953959939@rons>
	<20090607042910.GB6822@yumi.bluecherry.net>
Message-ID: <AA3532AD950246F0BF89540F102E1EBC@rons>

Thank you for your opinion, Mr. carter.  however, when you get out of school 
and if you pass the Bar, maybe your opinion might mean something.  At this 
point in your career, you probably don't yet realize how much the KNFB 
reader can impact an Attorney's ability to work independently while in 
Court.  Therefore, since this blog was set up for Attorneys to discuss 
better ways of practicing law, then my question is relevant regardless of 
your opinion.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "T. Joseph Carter" <carter.tjoseph at gmail.com>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, June 06, 2009 11:29 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] KNFB With Wayfinder


:I think you'd find a better answer asking the list designed for
: techie questions or blindtlk.  I doubt blindlaw is likely to give you
: the best possible answer.
:
: Joseph
:
:
: On Sat, Jun 06, 2009 at 06:23:01PM -0500, Ron Dixon wrote:
: >Hi Gang:
: >
: >I am having a problem with setting the navigations into my Wayfinder GPS. 
Is there anybody out there using the Wayfinder with the KNFB scanning Cell 
phone and can give me some pointers on what I am doing wrong?  At this 
point, any help is appreciated.
: >
: >_______________________________________________
: >blindlaw mailing list
: >blindlaw at nfbnet.org
: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
: >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
blindlaw:
: 
 >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/carter.tjoseph%40gmail.com
:
: _______________________________________________
: blindlaw mailing list
: blindlaw at nfbnet.org
: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
: To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
blindlaw:
: 
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/peagoody%40worldnet.att.net 



From Tim.Ford at cdph.ca.gov  Thu Jun 11 22:55:39 2009
From: Tim.Ford at cdph.ca.gov (Ford, Tim (CDPH-OLS))
Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 15:55:39 -0700
Subject: [blindlaw] The Census does not track the blind
In-Reply-To: <2ECDDE389BCC4E82B855436410A15400@spike>
References: <20090609033819.GD18034@yumi.bluecherry.net><F405FAAA797B4605A397A8FED1FB73F2@spike><20090609141019.GI18034@yumi.bluecherry.net><fe5b78280906090950h2974859ao745a811589a019e@mail.gmail.com><20090609211528.GB684@yumi.bluecherry.net><fe5b78280906091528y2e1a49dao38c951015f31ef12@mail.gmail.com><20090610194406.GN1330@yumi.bluecherry.net><F998B287955043648A167118B0EA9122@StevePC><7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6BF00444@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local><fe5b78280906110906w5a140068y2fe91135cc332dcc@mail.gmail.com>
	<2ECDDE389BCC4E82B855436410A15400@spike>
Message-ID: <839F18076C66C345BD1C0A4ACA67A1F60315BBDB@dhsexcmsg12.intra.dhs.ca.gov>

This line of e-mails seems to me to be well outside of a blind lawyer
list, not every political or governmental action is something this list
should be discussing, especially since there have been dozens of notes
amongst what seems to be a small group of contributors.  So this is just
one person's vote that perhaps we can move on to more list-appropriate
topics?  

Sincerely,
Tim Ford
 

-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
On Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 3:10 PM
To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] The Census does not track the blind

and its pretty pathetic that with all this so-called or investment the
blind have an unemployment rate of over 70%. Due to the lack of planning
for employment and effective support if this were a business proposal
the rate of return would be pretty poor based on the way the government
has handled support and enforcement of laws affecting the blind.
Chuck
----- Original Message -----
From: "James Pepper" <b75205 at gmail.com>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 9:06 AM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] The Census does not track the blind


> The American Community Survey only tracks the senosry impaired.   That
> incluides the deaf.  We need to know about the blind, the deaf blind, 
> the visually impaired and the color blind.  We need to know the status

> of the blind in society, where we need to change things and we cannot 
> do that when the government does not track this specific minority.  
> Including us in a general class is not going to do it.
>
> There is no reason to ignore the blind and we need this done NOW, not 
> 10 years from now, NOW.  All of this should have been done 36 years 
> ago with the passing of the Rehabilitation Act.
>
> Our economy spends 50 billion dollars a year on the blind, most of 
> that is in government payouts to support the blind. The US Government 
> pays out $266,000 to each blind person over their lifetime on average 
> in public assistance.  If you mutliply the 50 billion figure over the 
> past 36 years of the Rehabilitation Act, the US economy has spent 1.8 
> Trillion dollars on the blind.  The US government should be tracking 
> the results of that expenditure but it is not doing it, because the 
> results are terrible.
>
> So who cares if the census is going to have to be redone, do we have 
> to spend another 500 billion dollars to wait for a real census just so

> the government policies can maintain us at a 70% unemployement rate?
>
> James Pepper
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40s
> bcglobal.net


_______________________________________________
blindlaw mailing list
blindlaw at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
blindlaw:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tim.ford%40cdp
h.ca.gov


From angie.matney at gmail.com  Fri Jun 12 01:53:27 2009
From: angie.matney at gmail.com (Angie Matney)
Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 21:53:27 -0400
Subject: [blindlaw] KNFB With Wayfinder
In-Reply-To: <AA3532AD950246F0BF89540F102E1EBC@rons>
References: <8FBEDE9BD29D4872B9BA066953959939@rons>	<20090607042910.GB6822@yumi.bluecherry.net>
	<AA3532AD950246F0BF89540F102E1EBC@rons>
Message-ID: <4a31b515.1ac1f10a.0691.7785@mx.google.com>

Mr. Dixon, 

Mr. Carter's credentials notwithstanding, he makes a very good point. Many,
many things might be relevant to a blind attorney's practice. That does not
mean that this list is likely to be your best source of information
concerning all of them. While many of us might use these tools, it is much
more likely that someone who spends a lot of time answering techie questions
(either professionally, or simply because it's his hobby) will be better
equipped to address your specific concerns (which, if memory serves, were
nnot related to the practice of law). I don't think Mr. Carter said your
question was irrelevant; I believe he offered you other resources that might
prove mmore fruitful. Given the lack of response to your question on-list
(though I have no way of knowing how many private responses you have
received), I believe he probably has  a point.

Personally, I think this list could be a great place for blind attorneys/law
students to recommend technology that they have found particularly useful.
If the list were to be inundated with tech-support questions, however, it
would lose much of what makes it unique. 

Again, this is my personal opinion. The determination of whether or not your
particular question is relevant here has to be made by the moderators. In
the meantime, you are much more likely to get a meaningful answer in another
forum. Both Wayfinder Access and the KNFB reader have specific maling lists
that are excellent sources of information. The KNFB reader list can be
accessed at www.nfbnet.org. I do not currently have the subscription
information for the Wayfinder list.

I will now return to my lurking-while-studying-for-the-bar mode.

Best,

Angie




-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Ron Dixon
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 6:48 PM
To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] KNFB With Wayfinder

Thank you for your opinion, Mr. carter.  however, when you get out of school

and if you pass the Bar, maybe your opinion might mean something.  At this 
point in your career, you probably don't yet realize how much the KNFB 
reader can impact an Attorney's ability to work independently while in 
Court.  Therefore, since this blog was set up for Attorneys to discuss 
better ways of practicing law, then my question is relevant regardless of 
your opinion.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "T. Joseph Carter" <carter.tjoseph at gmail.com>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, June 06, 2009 11:29 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] KNFB With Wayfinder


:I think you'd find a better answer asking the list designed for
: techie questions or blindtlk.  I doubt blindlaw is likely to give you
: the best possible answer.
:
: Joseph
:
:
: On Sat, Jun 06, 2009 at 06:23:01PM -0500, Ron Dixon wrote:
: >Hi Gang:
: >
: >I am having a problem with setting the navigations into my Wayfinder GPS.

Is there anybody out there using the Wayfinder with the KNFB scanning Cell 
phone and can give me some pointers on what I am doing wrong?  At this 
point, any help is appreciated.
: >
: >_______________________________________________
: >blindlaw mailing list
: >blindlaw at nfbnet.org
: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
: >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
blindlaw:
: 
 
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/carter.tjoseph%40
gmail.com
:
: _______________________________________________
: blindlaw mailing list
: blindlaw at nfbnet.org
: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
: To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
blindlaw:
: 
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/peagoody%40worldne
t.att.net 


_______________________________________________
blindlaw mailing list
blindlaw at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
blindlaw:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie.matney%40gma
il.com



From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net  Fri Jun 12 02:25:46 2009
From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net)
Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 19:25:46 -0700
Subject: [blindlaw] ramifications of receiving Target settlement
	checkfor SSI recipients
In-Reply-To: <fe5b78280906111312nc6f2617mbcdabbaa30a33f57@mail.gmail.com>
References: <DD01A1BAD9044775A65CB6C6D43BF548@spike>
	<fe5b78280906111312nc6f2617mbcdabbaa30a33f57@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C566D923F8FB462A9A340A8015325890@spike>

what is usually done when people who are on SSI receive settlements or 
inheritances special needs trust accounts are set up and the money from a 
settlement is placed in to the account. As the funds in the account are 
administered by a third party or family member and the SSI recipient does 
not have control over the actual money it can't be considered an asset or 
resource for determination of income for SSI purposes.
Chuck
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "James Pepper" <b75205 at gmail.com>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 1:12 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ramifications of receiving Target settlement 
checkfor SSI recipients


> So in the future should the amounts collected from companies such as 
> Target
> be directed to a specific institution to provide services for the blind?
> Some way to get around this problem of the SSI beneificaries loosing not
> only the money but thier medications etc.?
>
> We need a clear layout of how to solve these problems without negating the
> solution.
>
> James Pepper
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net 



From benkarpilow at gmail.com  Fri Jun 12 05:08:50 2009
From: benkarpilow at gmail.com (Ben Karpilow)
Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 22:08:50 -0700
Subject: [blindlaw] electronic versions of the MBE
Message-ID: <965679953DA54B9B8EBFBC94FFAE3453@bentar802wznlv>

Hello all, I will be sitting for the July 2009 California bar exam. The committee of bar examiners has denied my request for an electronic version  of the MBE portion of the exam . I plan to appeal this decision. Has anybody dealt with this issue, and if so, can you share your experience? I appreciate the feedback. Ben




Benjamin K. Karpilow
benkarpilow at gmail.com
707-548-8555

From jweisberg at screncilaw.com  Fri Jun 12 11:27:59 2009
From: jweisberg at screncilaw.com (James Weisberg)
Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 07:27:59 -0400
Subject: [blindlaw] electronic versions of the MBE
References: <965679953DA54B9B8EBFBC94FFAE3453@bentar802wznlv>
Message-ID: <FC50B49ED94B8A45A9AA3CE6D096CAED1E773E@2K3FS1.screnci.local>

The Cal board of Bar Examiners are SCUM.  You would spend your time better trying to find an attorney to sue on your behalf than dealing with the appeal process.  I presume you requested a reader/scrib in case your technology craps out during the exam.  God forbid you need to use them though, the Board does not screen their "readers" and they gave me a completely incompetent reader which I had to use when on day one they could not produce my exam in electronic format as I had requested and they had approved.  I hope you have better luck.  Here's a suggestion:  blow off Cal and take another state's bar and practice federal law in Cal.  Six months after the exam you will actually be licensed!

________________________________

From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org on behalf of Ben Karpilow
Sent: Fri 6/12/2009 1:08 AM
To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
Subject: [blindlaw] electronic versions of the MBE



Hello all, I will be sitting for the July 2009 California bar exam. The committee of bar examiners has denied my request for an electronic version  of the MBE portion of the exam . I plan to appeal this decision. Has anybody dealt with this issue, and if so, can you share your experience? I appreciate the feedback. Ben




Benjamin K. Karpilow
benkarpilow at gmail.com
707-548-8555
_______________________________________________
blindlaw mailing list
blindlaw at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jweisberg%40screncilaw.com


-------------- next part --------------
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From JChwalow at nfb.org  Fri Jun 12 12:00:42 2009
From: JChwalow at nfb.org (Chwalow, Judith)
Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 08:00:42 -0400
Subject: [blindlaw] The Census does not track the blind
In-Reply-To: <839F18076C66C345BD1C0A4ACA67A1F60315BBDB@dhsexcmsg12.intra.dhs.ca.gov>
References: <20090609033819.GD18034@yumi.bluecherry.net><F405FAAA797B4605A397A8FED1FB73F2@spike><20090609141019.GI18034@yumi.bluecherry.net><fe5b78280906090950h2974859ao745a811589a019e@mail.gmail.com><20090609211528.GB684@yumi.bluecherry.net><fe5b78280906091528y2e1a49dao38c951015f31ef12@mail.gmail.com><20090610194406.GN1330@yumi.bluecherry.net><F998B287955043648A167118B0EA9122@StevePC><7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6BF00444@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local><fe5b78280906110906w5a140068y2fe91135cc332dcc@mail.gmail.com><2ECDDE389BCC4E82B855436410A15400@spike>
	<839F18076C66C345BD1C0A4ACA67A1F60315BBDB@dhsexcmsg12.intra.dhs.ca.gov>
Message-ID: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6BF00AAA@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local>

The ACS also tracks blind. For the first time a government sponsored
project defines sensory deprivation with two separate questions; deaf
and blind. The census does not. It has never separated deaf from blind.
When trying to find this information I was directed by the census, to
try this survey, which I did and found the information I was looking
for. It is in the set of questions under number 17.

A. Judith Chwalow, DrPH
Director of Research, Jernigan Institute
National Federation of the Blind
1800 Johnson Street
Baltimore, MD 21230
410 659 9314 x2404
jchwalow at NFB.org




-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
On Behalf Of Ford, Tim (CDPH-OLS)
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 6:56 PM
To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
Subject: [blindlaw] The Census does not track the blind

This line of e-mails seems to me to be well outside of a blind lawyer
list, not every political or governmental action is something this list
should be discussing, especially since there have been dozens of notes
amongst what seems to be a small group of contributors.  So this is just
one person's vote that perhaps we can move on to more list-appropriate
topics?  

Sincerely,
Tim Ford
 

-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
On Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 3:10 PM
To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] The Census does not track the blind

and its pretty pathetic that with all this so-called or investment the
blind have an unemployment rate of over 70%. Due to the lack of planning
for employment and effective support if this were a business proposal
the rate of return would be pretty poor based on the way the government
has handled support and enforcement of laws affecting the blind.
Chuck
----- Original Message -----
From: "James Pepper" <b75205 at gmail.com>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 9:06 AM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] The Census does not track the blind


> The American Community Survey only tracks the senosry impaired.   That
> incluides the deaf.  We need to know about the blind, the deaf blind, 
> the visually impaired and the color blind.  We need to know the status

> of the blind in society, where we need to change things and we cannot 
> do that when the government does not track this specific minority.
> Including us in a general class is not going to do it.
>
> There is no reason to ignore the blind and we need this done NOW, not 
> 10 years from now, NOW.  All of this should have been done 36 years 
> ago with the passing of the Rehabilitation Act.
>
> Our economy spends 50 billion dollars a year on the blind, most of 
> that is in government payouts to support the blind. The US Government 
> pays out $266,000 to each blind person over their lifetime on average 
> in public assistance.  If you mutliply the 50 billion figure over the 
> past 36 years of the Rehabilitation Act, the US economy has spent 1.8 
> Trillion dollars on the blind.  The US government should be tracking 
> the results of that expenditure but it is not doing it, because the 
> results are terrible.
>
> So who cares if the census is going to have to be redone, do we have 
> to spend another 500 billion dollars to wait for a real census just so

> the government policies can maintain us at a 70% unemployement rate?
>
> James Pepper
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40s
> bcglobal.net


_______________________________________________
blindlaw mailing list
blindlaw at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
blindlaw:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tim.ford%40cdp
h.ca.gov

_______________________________________________
blindlaw mailing list
blindlaw at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
blindlaw:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jchwalow%40nfb
.org


From DFrye at nfb.org  Fri Jun 12 12:27:51 2009
From: DFrye at nfb.org (Frye, Dan)
Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 08:27:51 -0400
Subject: [blindlaw] ramifications of receiving Target settlementcheckfor
	SSI recipients
In-Reply-To: <C566D923F8FB462A9A340A8015325890@spike>
Message-ID: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6BF00B20@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local>

Colleagues:

The other alternative to this solution is that a Plan to Achieve
Self-Support (PASS) can be established with the Social Security
Administration if the recipient is in school or otherwise working toward
a vocational objective that can be clearly identified. The PASS, if
creatively written, can allow for fairly flexible use of the settlement
monies that, in this instance, would be funneled through the account and
thus not counted as income or resources for purposes of calculating
entitlement to SSI. Social Security has to approve these plans, but
details on how to prepare them and criteria for creating them are
readily available on the SSA Website. It requires a little planning and
attention to accounting, but it is an alternative means for legally
preserving one's SSI benefits when unexpected income and resources from
settlements of this nature or otherwise come one's way. IN general, I
think it would be fair to say that for a sum the size of the Target
settlements in question this approach would prove easier and more
appropriate than creating a special needs trust, but, of course,
everybody's circumstance will be unique. One using a PASS would need to
spend these dollars within forty-eight months, at the outside, including
all opportunities to maximize available PASS extensions.  

With Kind Regards,

***********************
Daniel B. Frye, J.D.
Associate Editor
The Braille Monitor
National Federation of the Blind
Office of the President
1800 Johnson Street
Baltimore, Maryland 21230
Telephone: (410) 659-9314 Ext. 2208
Mobile: (410) 241-7006
Fax: (410) 685-5653
Email: DFrye at nfb.org
Web Address: www.nfb.org
"Voice of the Nation's Blind"
 

-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
On Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 10:26 PM
To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ramifications of receiving Target
settlementcheckfor SSI recipients

what is usually done when people who are on SSI receive settlements or
inheritances special needs trust accounts are set up and the money from
a settlement is placed in to the account. As the funds in the account
are administered by a third party or family member and the SSI recipient
does not have control over the actual money it can't be considered an
asset or resource for determination of income for SSI purposes.
Chuck
----- Original Message -----
From: "James Pepper" <b75205 at gmail.com>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 1:12 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ramifications of receiving Target settlement
checkfor SSI recipients


> So in the future should the amounts collected from companies such as 
> Target be directed to a specific institution to provide services for 
> the blind?
> Some way to get around this problem of the SSI beneificaries loosing 
> not only the money but thier medications etc.?
>
> We need a clear layout of how to solve these problems without negating

> the solution.
>
> James Pepper
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40s
> bcglobal.net


_______________________________________________
blindlaw mailing list
blindlaw at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
blindlaw:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dfrye%40nfb.or
g


From b75205 at gmail.com  Fri Jun 12 13:06:43 2009
From: b75205 at gmail.com (James Pepper)
Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 08:06:43 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] ramifications of receiving Target settlementcheckfor
	SSI recipients
In-Reply-To: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6BF00B20@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local>
References: <C566D923F8FB462A9A340A8015325890@spike>
	<7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6BF00B20@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local>
Message-ID: <fe5b78280906120606n6d1551bcqe3ded332101e3c5c@mail.gmail.com>

Well, given that the SSI beneficiaries are going to be a large percentage of
the people who will be benefiting from these types of lawsuits, you need
their cooperation to get the changes needed to force companies into
compliance for accesssibility, so in the future, these considerations are
going to have to be adopted.

You can't just go around saying oh well they are not paying taxes let's
jteach them a lesson, because they don't have you skills, and in most cases,
they are being discriminated against, hence the lawsuits.

You need these people to be able to benefit from a lawsuit, otherwise why
should they care?  Why should they be included if they will not benefit from
any lawsuit.  They become the people who benefit from the slow improvements
made in technology which is a factor which is driven by IT personnel who
care, not the people who are being forced into compliance.  Improvements are
made by people who are trying to help.  Everything else is just maintenance.

So if you want to get things done, you had better change the attitude and
realize that not everyone is as fortunate as yourselves.  And remember when
people loose their SSI, it is not only the money, its the medications, but
all of the other support that goes with it and so it can be catastrophic the
amount of damage that can be done to these people, just so you can get a
check as a member of the same class as these people.

James Pepper

From stevep.deeley at insightbb.com  Fri Jun 12 14:29:24 2009
From: stevep.deeley at insightbb.com (Steve P. Deeley)
Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 10:29:24 -0400
Subject: [blindlaw] ramifications of receiving Target
	settlementcheckforSSI recipients
In-Reply-To: <fe5b78280906120606n6d1551bcqe3ded332101e3c5c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <C566D923F8FB462A9A340A8015325890@spike>
	<7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6BF00B20@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local>
	<fe5b78280906120606n6d1551bcqe3ded332101e3c5c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <79CEE84E6C5C4FC5B7E8147B6C000026@StevePC>

I know
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "James Pepper" <b75205 at gmail.com>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 9:06 AM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ramifications of receiving Target 
settlementcheckforSSI recipients


> Well, given that the SSI beneficiaries are going to be a large percentage 
> of
> the people who will be benefiting from these types of lawsuits, you need
> their cooperation to get the changes needed to force companies into
> compliance for accesssibility, so in the future, these considerations are
> going to have to be adopted.
>
> You can't just go around saying oh well they are not paying taxes let's
> jteach them a lesson, because they don't have you skills, and in most 
> cases,
> they are being discriminated against, hence the lawsuits.
>
> You need these people to be able to benefit from a lawsuit, otherwise why
> should they care?  Why should they be included if they will not benefit 
> from
> any lawsuit.  They become the people who benefit from the slow 
> improvements
> made in technology which is a factor which is driven by IT personnel who
> care, not the people who are being forced into compliance.  Improvements 
> are
> made by people who are trying to help.  Everything else is just 
> maintenance.
>
> So if you want to get things done, you had better change the attitude and
> realize that not everyone is as fortunate as yourselves.  And remember 
> when
> people loose their SSI, it is not only the money, its the medications, but
> all of the other support that goes with it and so it can be catastrophic 
> the
> amount of damage that can be done to these people, just so you can get a
> check as a member of the same class as these people.
>
> James Pepper
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.65/2171 - Release Date: 06/12/09 
05:55:00



From stevep.deeley at insightbb.com  Fri Jun 12 14:30:07 2009
From: stevep.deeley at insightbb.com (Steve P. Deeley)
Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 10:30:07 -0400
Subject: [blindlaw] The Census does not track the blind
In-Reply-To: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6BF00AAA@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local>
References: <20090609033819.GD18034@yumi.bluecherry.net>
	<F405FAAA797B4605A397A8FED1FB73F2@spike>
	<20090609141019.GI18034@yumi.bluecherry.net>
	<fe5b78280906090950h2974859ao745a811589a019e@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090609211528.GB684@yumi.bluecherry.net>
	<fe5b78280906091528y2e1a49dao38c951015f31ef12@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090610194406.GN1330@yumi.bluecherry.net>
	<F998B287955043648A167118B0EA9122@StevePC>
	<7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6BF00444@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local>
	<fe5b78280906110906w5a140068y2fe91135cc332dcc@mail.gmail.com>
	<2ECDDE389BCC4E82B855436410A15400@spike>
	<839F18076C66C345BD1C0A4ACA67A1F60315BBDB@dhsexcmsg12.intra.dhs.ca.gov>
	<7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6BF00AAA@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local>
Message-ID: <DBD599D1DB09446DA79AB01D79EF20B8@StevePC>

Is the data broken out?
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Chwalow, Judith" <JChwalow at nfb.org>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 8:00 AM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] The Census does not track the blind


> The ACS also tracks blind. For the first time a government sponsored
> project defines sensory deprivation with two separate questions; deaf
> and blind. The census does not. It has never separated deaf from blind.
> When trying to find this information I was directed by the census, to
> try this survey, which I did and found the information I was looking
> for. It is in the set of questions under number 17.
>
> A. Judith Chwalow, DrPH
> Director of Research, Jernigan Institute
> National Federation of the Blind
> 1800 Johnson Street
> Baltimore, MD 21230
> 410 659 9314 x2404
> jchwalow at NFB.org
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
> On Behalf Of Ford, Tim (CDPH-OLS)
> Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 6:56 PM
> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
> Subject: [blindlaw] The Census does not track the blind
>
> This line of e-mails seems to me to be well outside of a blind lawyer
> list, not every political or governmental action is something this list
> should be discussing, especially since there have been dozens of notes
> amongst what seems to be a small group of contributors.  So this is just
> one person's vote that perhaps we can move on to more list-appropriate
> topics?
>
> Sincerely,
> Tim Ford
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
> On Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net
> Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 3:10 PM
> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] The Census does not track the blind
>
> and its pretty pathetic that with all this so-called or investment the
> blind have an unemployment rate of over 70%. Due to the lack of planning
> for employment and effective support if this were a business proposal
> the rate of return would be pretty poor based on the way the government
> has handled support and enforcement of laws affecting the blind.
> Chuck
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "James Pepper" <b75205 at gmail.com>
> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 9:06 AM
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] The Census does not track the blind
>
>
>> The American Community Survey only tracks the senosry impaired.   That
>> incluides the deaf.  We need to know about the blind, the deaf blind,
>> the visually impaired and the color blind.  We need to know the status
>
>> of the blind in society, where we need to change things and we cannot
>> do that when the government does not track this specific minority.
>> Including us in a general class is not going to do it.
>>
>> There is no reason to ignore the blind and we need this done NOW, not
>> 10 years from now, NOW.  All of this should have been done 36 years
>> ago with the passing of the Rehabilitation Act.
>>
>> Our economy spends 50 billion dollars a year on the blind, most of
>> that is in government payouts to support the blind. The US Government
>> pays out $266,000 to each blind person over their lifetime on average
>> in public assistance.  If you mutliply the 50 billion figure over the
>> past 36 years of the Rehabilitation Act, the US economy has spent 1.8
>> Trillion dollars on the blind.  The US government should be tracking
>> the results of that expenditure but it is not doing it, because the
>> results are terrible.
>>
>> So who cares if the census is going to have to be redone, do we have
>> to spend another 500 billion dollars to wait for a real census just so
>
>> the government policies can maintain us at a 70% unemployement rate?
>>
>> James Pepper
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindlaw:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40s
>> bcglobal.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tim.ford%40cdp
> h.ca.gov
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jchwalow%40nfb
> .org
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.65/2171 - Release Date: 06/12/09 
05:55:00



From jackchenonline at hotmail.com  Fri Jun 12 14:39:59 2009
From: jackchenonline at hotmail.com (Jack Chen)
Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 10:39:59 -0400
Subject: [blindlaw] electronic versions of the MBE
References: <965679953DA54B9B8EBFBC94FFAE3453@bentar802wznlv>
	<FC50B49ED94B8A45A9AA3CE6D096CAED1E773E@2K3FS1.screnci.local>
Message-ID: <COL0-DAV105205F84A8CE8718BD73C3430@phx.gbl>

I wasn't aware that California had any reciprocity with other states.  If 
this incorrect, please let us know.
http://www.ameribar.com/californiabarexam.htm
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "James Weisberg" <jweisberg at screncilaw.com>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 7:27 AM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] electronic versions of the MBE


The Cal board of Bar Examiners are SCUM.  You would spend your time better 
trying to find an attorney to sue on your behalf than dealing with the 
appeal process.  I presume you requested a reader/scrib in case your 
technology craps out during the exam.  God forbid you need to use them 
though, the Board does not screen their "readers" and they gave me a 
completely incompetent reader which I had to use when on day one they could 
not produce my exam in electronic format as I had requested and they had 
approved.  I hope you have better luck.  Here's a suggestion:  blow off Cal 
and take another state's bar and practice federal law in Cal.  Six months 
after the exam you will actually be licensed!

________________________________

From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org on behalf of Ben Karpilow
Sent: Fri 6/12/2009 1:08 AM
To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
Subject: [blindlaw] electronic versions of the MBE



Hello all, I will be sitting for the July 2009 California bar exam. The 
committee of bar examiners has denied my request for an electronic version 
of the MBE portion of the exam . I plan to appeal this decision. Has anybody 
dealt with this issue, and if so, can you share your experience? I 
appreciate the feedback. Ben




Benjamin K. Karpilow
benkarpilow at gmail.com
707-548-8555
_______________________________________________
blindlaw mailing list
blindlaw at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
blindlaw:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jweisberg%40screncilaw.com





--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jackchenonline%40hotmail.com
> 



From roddj12 at hotmail.com  Fri Jun 12 16:27:32 2009
From: roddj12 at hotmail.com (Rod Alcidonis)
Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 12:27:32 -0400
Subject: [blindlaw] ramifications of receiving Target settlement check
	for SSI recipients
References: <C566D923F8FB462A9A340A8015325890@spike><7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6BF00B20@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local><fe5b78280906120606n6d1551bcqe3ded332101e3c5c@mail.gmail.com>
	<79CEE84E6C5C4FC5B7E8147B6C000026@StevePC>
Message-ID: <BAY105-DAV9668A9F46EAE8DA5789BABB430@phx.gbl>

I always thought that the legal stragegy here was flaud by entering in a 
settlement where payments would be made directly to the plaintiffs as 
individuals. Given the reason why the suit was brought in the first place, 
any settlement agreements should have required payments to go towards 
something to further access for the blind, or a donation to fund blindness 
organizations providing technology services to the blind. Granted, I am 
saying this without being aware whether there existed a statutory constraint 
in California that prohibited such agreements. The funds could have gone to 
purchase computers for the blind, funded a technology center, etc.

Take care.

Rod Alcidonis, J.D.
C. 718-704-4651
roddj12 at hotmail.com

----- Original Message -----  



From JChwalow at nfb.org  Fri Jun 12 16:33:28 2009
From: JChwalow at nfb.org (Chwalow, Judith)
Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 12:33:28 -0400
Subject: [blindlaw] The Census does not track the blind
In-Reply-To: <DBD599D1DB09446DA79AB01D79EF20B8@StevePC>
References: <20090609033819.GD18034@yumi.bluecherry.net><F405FAAA797B4605A397A8FED1FB73F2@spike><20090609141019.GI18034@yumi.bluecherry.net><fe5b78280906090950h2974859ao745a811589a019e@mail.gmail.com><20090609211528.GB684@yumi.bluecherry.net><fe5b78280906091528y2e1a49dao38c951015f31ef12@mail.gmail.com><20090610194406.GN1330@yumi.bluecherry.net><F998B287955043648A167118B0EA9122@StevePC><7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6BF00444@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local><fe5b78280906110906w5a140068y2fe91135cc332dcc@mail.gmail.com><2ECDDE389BCC4E82B855436410A15400@spike><839F18076C66C345BD1C0A4ACA67A1F60315BBDB@dhsexcmsg12.intra.dhs.ca.gov><7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6BF00AAA@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local>
	<DBD599D1DB09446DA79AB01D79EF20B8@StevePC>
Message-ID: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6BF00D68@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local>

Yes, go to appendix Cfa and you will find the details. Here is the
reference: Matthew Brault, Sharon Stern, Housing and Household
Economic Statistics Division, David Raglin, Decennial Statistical
Studies
Division, 2006 American Community Survey Content Test Report January 3,
2007, Evaluation Report Covering Disability

The large report has incidence and prevalence data, employment is
discussed. 

A. Judith Chwalow, DrPH
Director of Research, Jernigan Institute
National Federation of the Blind
1800 Johnson Street
Baltimore, MD 21230
410 659 9314 x2404
jchwalow at NFB.org


-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
On Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 10:30 AM
To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] The Census does not track the blind

Is the data broken out?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chwalow, Judith" <JChwalow at nfb.org>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 8:00 AM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] The Census does not track the blind


> The ACS also tracks blind. For the first time a government sponsored
> project defines sensory deprivation with two separate questions; deaf
> and blind. The census does not. It has never separated deaf from
blind.
> When trying to find this information I was directed by the census, to
> try this survey, which I did and found the information I was looking
> for. It is in the set of questions under number 17.
>
> A. Judith Chwalow, DrPH
> Director of Research, Jernigan Institute
> National Federation of the Blind
> 1800 Johnson Street
> Baltimore, MD 21230
> 410 659 9314 x2404
> jchwalow at NFB.org
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
> On Behalf Of Ford, Tim (CDPH-OLS)
> Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 6:56 PM
> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
> Subject: [blindlaw] The Census does not track the blind
>
> This line of e-mails seems to me to be well outside of a blind lawyer
> list, not every political or governmental action is something this
list
> should be discussing, especially since there have been dozens of notes
> amongst what seems to be a small group of contributors.  So this is
just
> one person's vote that perhaps we can move on to more list-appropriate
> topics?
>
> Sincerely,
> Tim Ford
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
> On Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net
> Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 3:10 PM
> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] The Census does not track the blind
>
> and its pretty pathetic that with all this so-called or investment the
> blind have an unemployment rate of over 70%. Due to the lack of
planning
> for employment and effective support if this were a business proposal
> the rate of return would be pretty poor based on the way the
government
> has handled support and enforcement of laws affecting the blind.
> Chuck
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "James Pepper" <b75205 at gmail.com>
> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 9:06 AM
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] The Census does not track the blind
>
>
>> The American Community Survey only tracks the senosry impaired.
That
>> incluides the deaf.  We need to know about the blind, the deaf blind,
>> the visually impaired and the color blind.  We need to know the
status
>
>> of the blind in society, where we need to change things and we cannot
>> do that when the government does not track this specific minority.
>> Including us in a general class is not going to do it.
>>
>> There is no reason to ignore the blind and we need this done NOW, not
>> 10 years from now, NOW.  All of this should have been done 36 years
>> ago with the passing of the Rehabilitation Act.
>>
>> Our economy spends 50 billion dollars a year on the blind, most of
>> that is in government payouts to support the blind. The US Government
>> pays out $266,000 to each blind person over their lifetime on average
>> in public assistance.  If you mutliply the 50 billion figure over the
>> past 36 years of the Rehabilitation Act, the US economy has spent 1.8
>> Trillion dollars on the blind.  The US government should be tracking
>> the results of that expenditure but it is not doing it, because the
>> results are terrible.
>>
>> So who cares if the census is going to have to be redone, do we have
>> to spend another 500 billion dollars to wait for a real census just
so
>
>> the government policies can maintain us at a 70% unemployement rate?
>>
>> James Pepper
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindlaw:
>>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40s
>> bcglobal.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindlaw:
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tim.ford%40cdp
> h.ca.gov
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindlaw:
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jchwalow%40nfb
> .org
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%
40insightbb.com


------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------



No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.65/2171 - Release Date:
06/12/09 
05:55:00


_______________________________________________
blindlaw mailing list
blindlaw at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
blindlaw:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jchwalow%40nfb
.org


From stevep.deeley at insightbb.com  Fri Jun 12 19:00:30 2009
From: stevep.deeley at insightbb.com (Steve P. Deeley)
Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 15:00:30 -0400
Subject: [blindlaw] The Census does not track the blind
In-Reply-To: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6BF00D68@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local>
References: <20090609033819.GD18034@yumi.bluecherry.net>
	<F405FAAA797B4605A397A8FED1FB73F2@spike>
	<20090609141019.GI18034@yumi.bluecherry.net>
	<fe5b78280906090950h2974859ao745a811589a019e@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090609211528.GB684@yumi.bluecherry.net>
	<fe5b78280906091528y2e1a49dao38c951015f31ef12@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090610194406.GN1330@yumi.bluecherry.net>
	<F998B287955043648A167118B0EA9122@StevePC>
	<7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6BF00444@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local>
	<fe5b78280906110906w5a140068y2fe91135cc332dcc@mail.gmail.com>
	<2ECDDE389BCC4E82B855436410A15400@spike>
	<839F18076C66C345BD1C0A4ACA67A1F60315BBDB@dhsexcmsg12.intra.dhs.ca.gov>
	<7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6BF00AAA@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local>
	<DBD599D1DB09446DA79AB01D79EF20B8@StevePC>
	<7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6BF00D68@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local>
Message-ID: <58E1AAE28F024237B06CF5C86BBC3563@StevePC>

Thank you.  Can I get to it online?
Steve
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Chwalow, Judith" <JChwalow at nfb.org>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 12:33 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] The Census does not track the blind


> Yes, go to appendix Cfa and you will find the details. Here is the
> reference: Matthew Brault, Sharon Stern, Housing and Household
> Economic Statistics Division, David Raglin, Decennial Statistical
> Studies
> Division, 2006 American Community Survey Content Test Report January 3,
> 2007, Evaluation Report Covering Disability
>
> The large report has incidence and prevalence data, employment is
> discussed.
>
> A. Judith Chwalow, DrPH
> Director of Research, Jernigan Institute
> National Federation of the Blind
> 1800 Johnson Street
> Baltimore, MD 21230
> 410 659 9314 x2404
> jchwalow at NFB.org
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
> On Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley
> Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 10:30 AM
> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] The Census does not track the blind
>
> Is the data broken out?
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Chwalow, Judith" <JChwalow at nfb.org>
> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 8:00 AM
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] The Census does not track the blind
>
>
>> The ACS also tracks blind. For the first time a government sponsored
>> project defines sensory deprivation with two separate questions; deaf
>> and blind. The census does not. It has never separated deaf from
> blind.
>> When trying to find this information I was directed by the census, to
>> try this survey, which I did and found the information I was looking
>> for. It is in the set of questions under number 17.
>>
>> A. Judith Chwalow, DrPH
>> Director of Research, Jernigan Institute
>> National Federation of the Blind
>> 1800 Johnson Street
>> Baltimore, MD 21230
>> 410 659 9314 x2404
>> jchwalow at NFB.org
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>> On Behalf Of Ford, Tim (CDPH-OLS)
>> Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 6:56 PM
>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>> Subject: [blindlaw] The Census does not track the blind
>>
>> This line of e-mails seems to me to be well outside of a blind lawyer
>> list, not every political or governmental action is something this
> list
>> should be discussing, especially since there have been dozens of notes
>> amongst what seems to be a small group of contributors.  So this is
> just
>> one person's vote that perhaps we can move on to more list-appropriate
>> topics?
>>
>> Sincerely,
>> Tim Ford
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>> On Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net
>> Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 3:10 PM
>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] The Census does not track the blind
>>
>> and its pretty pathetic that with all this so-called or investment the
>> blind have an unemployment rate of over 70%. Due to the lack of
> planning
>> for employment and effective support if this were a business proposal
>> the rate of return would be pretty poor based on the way the
> government
>> has handled support and enforcement of laws affecting the blind.
>> Chuck
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "James Pepper" <b75205 at gmail.com>
>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 9:06 AM
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] The Census does not track the blind
>>
>>
>>> The American Community Survey only tracks the senosry impaired.
> That
>>> incluides the deaf.  We need to know about the blind, the deaf blind,
>>> the visually impaired and the color blind.  We need to know the
> status
>>
>>> of the blind in society, where we need to change things and we cannot
>>> do that when the government does not track this specific minority.
>>> Including us in a general class is not going to do it.
>>>
>>> There is no reason to ignore the blind and we need this done NOW, not
>>> 10 years from now, NOW.  All of this should have been done 36 years
>>> ago with the passing of the Rehabilitation Act.
>>>
>>> Our economy spends 50 billion dollars a year on the blind, most of
>>> that is in government payouts to support the blind. The US Government
>>> pays out $266,000 to each blind person over their lifetime on average
>>> in public assistance.  If you mutliply the 50 billion figure over the
>>> past 36 years of the Rehabilitation Act, the US economy has spent 1.8
>>> Trillion dollars on the blind.  The US government should be tracking
>>> the results of that expenditure but it is not doing it, because the
>>> results are terrible.
>>>
>>> So who cares if the census is going to have to be redone, do we have
>>> to spend another 500 billion dollars to wait for a real census just
> so
>>
>>> the government policies can maintain us at a 70% unemployement rate?
>>>
>>> James Pepper
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> blindlaw:
>>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40s
>>> bcglobal.net
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindlaw:
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tim.ford%40cdp
>> h.ca.gov
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindlaw:
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jchwalow%40nfb
>> .org
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindlaw:
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%
> 40insightbb.com
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> --------
>
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.65/2171 - Release Date:
> 06/12/09
> 05:55:00
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jchwalow%40nfb
> .org
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.65/2171 - Release Date: 06/12/09 
05:55:00



From JChwalow at nfb.org  Fri Jun 12 19:29:15 2009
From: JChwalow at nfb.org (Chwalow, Judith)
Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 15:29:15 -0400
Subject: [blindlaw] The Census does not track the blind
In-Reply-To: <58E1AAE28F024237B06CF5C86BBC3563@StevePC>
References: <20090609033819.GD18034@yumi.bluecherry.net><F405FAAA797B4605A397A8FED1FB73F2@spike><20090609141019.GI18034@yumi.bluecherry.net><fe5b78280906090950h2974859ao745a811589a019e@mail.gmail.com><20090609211528.GB684@yumi.bluecherry.net><fe5b78280906091528y2e1a49dao38c951015f31ef12@mail.gmail.com><20090610194406.GN1330@yumi.bluecherry.net><F998B287955043648A167118B0EA9122@StevePC><7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6BF00444@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local><fe5b78280906110906w5a140068y2fe91135cc332dcc@mail.gmail.com><2ECDDE389BCC4E82B855436410A15400@spike><839F18076C66C345BD1C0A4ACA67A1F60315BBDB@dhsexcmsg12.intra.dhs.ca.gov><7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6BF00AAA@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local><DBD599D1DB09446DA79AB01D79EF20B8@StevePC><7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6BF00D68@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local>
	<58E1AAE28F024237B06CF5C86BBC3563@StevePC>
Message-ID: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6BF00E7B@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local>

Yes 

-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
On Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 3:01 PM
To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] The Census does not track the blind

Thank you.  Can I get to it online?
Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chwalow, Judith" <JChwalow at nfb.org>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 12:33 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] The Census does not track the blind


> Yes, go to appendix Cfa and you will find the details. Here is the
> reference: Matthew Brault, Sharon Stern, Housing and Household
> Economic Statistics Division, David Raglin, Decennial Statistical
> Studies
> Division, 2006 American Community Survey Content Test Report January
3,
> 2007, Evaluation Report Covering Disability
>
> The large report has incidence and prevalence data, employment is
> discussed.
>
> A. Judith Chwalow, DrPH
> Director of Research, Jernigan Institute
> National Federation of the Blind
> 1800 Johnson Street
> Baltimore, MD 21230
> 410 659 9314 x2404
> jchwalow at NFB.org
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
> On Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley
> Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 10:30 AM
> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] The Census does not track the blind
>
> Is the data broken out?
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Chwalow, Judith" <JChwalow at nfb.org>
> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 8:00 AM
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] The Census does not track the blind
>
>
>> The ACS also tracks blind. For the first time a government sponsored
>> project defines sensory deprivation with two separate questions; deaf
>> and blind. The census does not. It has never separated deaf from
> blind.
>> When trying to find this information I was directed by the census, to
>> try this survey, which I did and found the information I was looking
>> for. It is in the set of questions under number 17.
>>
>> A. Judith Chwalow, DrPH
>> Director of Research, Jernigan Institute
>> National Federation of the Blind
>> 1800 Johnson Street
>> Baltimore, MD 21230
>> 410 659 9314 x2404
>> jchwalow at NFB.org
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org
[mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>> On Behalf Of Ford, Tim (CDPH-OLS)
>> Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 6:56 PM
>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>> Subject: [blindlaw] The Census does not track the blind
>>
>> This line of e-mails seems to me to be well outside of a blind lawyer
>> list, not every political or governmental action is something this
> list
>> should be discussing, especially since there have been dozens of
notes
>> amongst what seems to be a small group of contributors.  So this is
> just
>> one person's vote that perhaps we can move on to more
list-appropriate
>> topics?
>>
>> Sincerely,
>> Tim Ford
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org
[mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>> On Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net
>> Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 3:10 PM
>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] The Census does not track the blind
>>
>> and its pretty pathetic that with all this so-called or investment
the
>> blind have an unemployment rate of over 70%. Due to the lack of
> planning
>> for employment and effective support if this were a business proposal
>> the rate of return would be pretty poor based on the way the
> government
>> has handled support and enforcement of laws affecting the blind.
>> Chuck
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "James Pepper" <b75205 at gmail.com>
>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 9:06 AM
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] The Census does not track the blind
>>
>>
>>> The American Community Survey only tracks the senosry impaired.
> That
>>> incluides the deaf.  We need to know about the blind, the deaf
blind,
>>> the visually impaired and the color blind.  We need to know the
> status
>>
>>> of the blind in society, where we need to change things and we
cannot
>>> do that when the government does not track this specific minority.
>>> Including us in a general class is not going to do it.
>>>
>>> There is no reason to ignore the blind and we need this done NOW,
not
>>> 10 years from now, NOW.  All of this should have been done 36 years
>>> ago with the passing of the Rehabilitation Act.
>>>
>>> Our economy spends 50 billion dollars a year on the blind, most of
>>> that is in government payouts to support the blind. The US
Government
>>> pays out $266,000 to each blind person over their lifetime on
average
>>> in public assistance.  If you mutliply the 50 billion figure over
the
>>> past 36 years of the Rehabilitation Act, the US economy has spent
1.8
>>> Trillion dollars on the blind.  The US government should be tracking
>>> the results of that expenditure but it is not doing it, because the
>>> results are terrible.
>>>
>>> So who cares if the census is going to have to be redone, do we have
>>> to spend another 500 billion dollars to wait for a real census just
> so
>>
>>> the government policies can maintain us at a 70% unemployement rate?
>>>
>>> James Pepper
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
for
>>> blindlaw:
>>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40s
>>> bcglobal.net
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindlaw:
>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tim.ford%40cdp
>> h.ca.gov
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindlaw:
>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jchwalow%40nfb
>> .org
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindlaw:
>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%
> 40insightbb.com
>
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
> --------
>
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.65/2171 - Release Date:
> 06/12/09
> 05:55:00
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindlaw:
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jchwalow%40nfb
> .org
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%
40insightbb.com


------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------



No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.65/2171 - Release Date:
06/12/09 
05:55:00


_______________________________________________
blindlaw mailing list
blindlaw at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
blindlaw:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jchwalow%40nfb
.org


From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net  Fri Jun 12 22:36:24 2009
From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net)
Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 15:36:24 -0700
Subject: [blindlaw] ramifications of receiving Target settlement
	checkfor SSI recipients
In-Reply-To: <BAY105-DAV9668A9F46EAE8DA5789BABB430@phx.gbl>
References: <C566D923F8FB462A9A340A8015325890@spike><7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6BF00B20@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local><fe5b78280906120606n6d1551bcqe3ded332101e3c5c@mail.gmail.com><79CEE84E6C5C4FC5B7E8147B6C000026@StevePC>
	<BAY105-DAV9668A9F46EAE8DA5789BABB430@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <12699A48418B4EFAAA61A79C36E115A2@spike>

That was also part of the settlement above and beyond the payments to 
individuals. However, the suit was brought as a class action suit and 
payments to individuals benefit members of the class as a whole. They also 
help to mitigate the individual damages and humiliation that blind users 
experience every day on the Internet when they can't access web sites 
equally. payments to individuals experiencing discrimination under the ADa 
and state law are granted by California statute.
Chuck, A satisfied member of the class
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Rod Alcidonis" <roddj12 at hotmail.com>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 9:27 AM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ramifications of receiving Target settlement 
checkfor SSI recipients


>I always thought that the legal stragegy here was flaud by entering in a 
>settlement where payments would be made directly to the plaintiffs as 
>individuals. Given the reason why the suit was brought in the first place, 
>any settlement agreements should have required payments to go towards 
>something to further access for the blind, or a donation to fund blindness 
>organizations providing technology services to the blind. Granted, I am 
>saying this without being aware whether there existed a statutory 
>constraint in California that prohibited such agreements. The funds could 
>have gone to purchase computers for the blind, funded a technology center, 
>etc.
>
> Take care.
>
> Rod Alcidonis, J.D.
> C. 718-704-4651
> roddj12 at hotmail.com
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net 



From angie.matney at gmail.com  Fri Jun 12 23:53:21 2009
From: angie.matney at gmail.com (Angie Matney)
Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 19:53:21 -0400
Subject: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
In-Reply-To: <FC50B49ED94B8A45A9AA3CE6D096CAED1E773E@2K3FS1.screnci.local>
References: <965679953DA54B9B8EBFBC94FFAE3453@bentar802wznlv>
	<FC50B49ED94B8A45A9AA3CE6D096CAED1E773E@2K3FS1.screnci.local>
Message-ID: <4a32ea72.1ac1f10a.1f2a.648a@mx.google.com>

Hello,

 

I asked for and was granted a Braille MBE and a Braille version of the ssay
questions. My request to write my answers to the essays was denied. I am
supposed to dictate them to a court reporter. The documentation I received
from the VA bar examiners is unclear as to whether or not I will first be
able to prepare my answers in Braille and then dictate them (it specifically
says I can do this for the MBE, but not the essays), or whether I have to
simply dictate my answers. I have serious concerns about my ability to
perform effectively on the exam if it is the latter. I have never taken an
essay test via dictation--I mentioned this in my accommodations request. I
explained why the process was different for the MBE and the essay portion of
the bar, but apparently my explanation was not sufficient, not understood,
or not accepted.

 

Has anyone been granted the option to use a laptop during the state-specific
portion of the Bar exam? It is my understanding that this is fairly common.

 

Virginia does have a program whereby any person taking the exam can register
to take it via laptop, but I have concerns about the accessibility of the
software they use, which disables all but some basic word-processing
functions of the computer. The software is called Exam4, and the maker is
Extegrity. Has anyone had experience with this software and a screen reader?

 

Thanks,

 

Angie

 

 

 

 

 

-------------- next part --------------
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From b75205 at gmail.com  Fri Jun 12 23:57:45 2009
From: b75205 at gmail.com (James Pepper)
Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 18:57:45 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] The Census does not track the blind
In-Reply-To: <933A9FCB71AD4A4EA0BFD5FB35CD45CA@StevePC>
References: <20090609033819.GD18034@yumi.bluecherry.net>
	<20090609141019.GI18034@yumi.bluecherry.net>
	<fe5b78280906090950h2974859ao745a811589a019e@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090609211528.GB684@yumi.bluecherry.net>
	<fe5b78280906091528y2e1a49dao38c951015f31ef12@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090610194406.GN1330@yumi.bluecherry.net>
	<F998B287955043648A167118B0EA9122@StevePC>
	<7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6BF00444@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local>
	<fe5b78280906110906w5a140068y2fe91135cc332dcc@mail.gmail.com>
	<933A9FCB71AD4A4EA0BFD5FB35CD45CA@StevePC>
Message-ID: <fe5b78280906121657n32180679n51d5dcda940f9fef@mail.gmail.com>

Stats:

Ok the 54 billion figure came from teh CDC but they changed their website
but we can reconstruct those figures from other sources.  The CDC keeps
track of who is blind for what reason and if you go by their figures there
are a lot more blind people than the government seems to be acknoledging.
Remember these figures include constructions costs and everything for making
things accessible on top of the direct costs to the government.

The figure is $566,000 of added cost for each blind person to take care of
them for their lifetime, over and above any other costs.  I thought it was
$266,000 but it was $566,000.
http://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/dd/vision3.htm#cost  This report was in 2001 and
it estimated that the costs of all the people born blind in 2000 would have
a lifetime cost of 2.5 billion for that year.

The CDC keeps track of eye diseases and statistics of people 40 and over.

 17.2% of that population will get cataracks which is 20.5 million people.
Macular degeneration leading to blindness is only 1.5% of the population and
that is aropund 1.7 million people in this age range while macular
degeneration leading to partial blindness is 6.7% of this over 40 population
or 7.3 million people.  Then you have glaucoma which affects 1.9% or 2.2
million people.   http://www.nei.nih.gov/eyedata/pbd_tables.asp

Diabetic Retinopathy affects 4 million people in our entire population.

So there is a need for a census to figure out just how much we are spending
on this and how to improve these vast expenditures.

James G. Pepper

From stevep.deeley at insightbb.com  Sat Jun 13 01:27:40 2009
From: stevep.deeley at insightbb.com (Steve P. Deeley)
Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 21:27:40 -0400
Subject: [blindlaw] The Census does not track the blind
In-Reply-To: <fe5b78280906121657n32180679n51d5dcda940f9fef@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20090609033819.GD18034@yumi.bluecherry.net>
	<20090609141019.GI18034@yumi.bluecherry.net>
	<fe5b78280906090950h2974859ao745a811589a019e@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090609211528.GB684@yumi.bluecherry.net>
	<fe5b78280906091528y2e1a49dao38c951015f31ef12@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090610194406.GN1330@yumi.bluecherry.net>
	<F998B287955043648A167118B0EA9122@StevePC>
	<7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6BF00444@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local>
	<fe5b78280906110906w5a140068y2fe91135cc332dcc@mail.gmail.com>
	<933A9FCB71AD4A4EA0BFD5FB35CD45CA@StevePC>
	<fe5b78280906121657n32180679n51d5dcda940f9fef@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4880EC445A1D46CB8DB28C397C976934@StevePC>

Wow, I appreciate the information.

Steve

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "James Pepper" <b75205 at gmail.com>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 7:57 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] The Census does not track the blind


> Stats:
>
> Ok the 54 billion figure came from teh CDC but they changed their website
> but we can reconstruct those figures from other sources.  The CDC keeps
> track of who is blind for what reason and if you go by their figures there
> are a lot more blind people than the government seems to be acknoledging.
> Remember these figures include constructions costs and everything for 
> making
> things accessible on top of the direct costs to the government.
>
> The figure is $566,000 of added cost for each blind person to take care of
> them for their lifetime, over and above any other costs.  I thought it was
> $266,000 but it was $566,000.
> http://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/dd/vision3.htm#cost  This report was in 2001 and
> it estimated that the costs of all the people born blind in 2000 would 
> have
> a lifetime cost of 2.5 billion for that year.
>
> The CDC keeps track of eye diseases and statistics of people 40 and over.
>
> 17.2% of that population will get cataracks which is 20.5 million people.
> Macular degeneration leading to blindness is only 1.5% of the population 
> and
> that is aropund 1.7 million people in this age range while macular
> degeneration leading to partial blindness is 6.7% of this over 40 
> population
> or 7.3 million people.  Then you have glaucoma which affects 1.9% or 2.2
> million people.   http://www.nei.nih.gov/eyedata/pbd_tables.asp
>
> Diabetic Retinopathy affects 4 million people in our entire population.
>
> So there is a need for a census to figure out just how much we are 
> spending
> on this and how to improve these vast expenditures.
>
> James G. Pepper
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.65/2171 - Release Date: 06/12/09 
05:55:00



From roddj12 at hotmail.com  Sat Jun 13 01:38:59 2009
From: roddj12 at hotmail.com (Rod Alcidonis)
Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 21:38:59 -0400
Subject: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
References: <965679953DA54B9B8EBFBC94FFAE3453@bentar802wznlv><FC50B49ED94B8A45A9AA3CE6D096CAED1E773E@2K3FS1.screnci.local>
	<4a32ea72.1ac1f10a.1f2a.648a@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <BAY105-DAV128E5CD0054D60C0D247A4BB400@phx.gbl>

Angie:



That's upsetting, and  very upsetting. This is a common accommodation 
granted in many many states, including New York, Pennsylvania, etc. 
Pennsylvania granted this accommodation to me without any fights or 
anything. Once the director of the board knew I was blind, he told me that 
this is how all blind takers take their exams, and that this was standard 
for his office. I cannot imagine having to dictate to someone to write for 
you. The thought processes will be lost in the dictation.



New Jersey is almost trying to do the same thing to me and I am gearing up 
for a long, and hard fight. It's not even my first State; it is my second 
State because it borders with Pennsylvania and there are job prospects there 
for me. They are asking for me to use a reader for the essay portion. I told 
them I have never taken not even a high-school exams in this manner, and I 
will not do it for the bar exam. She told me that she was going to talk more 
with the bar examiners and would get back to me; I am still waiting. I had a 
friendly exchange with her which will certainly escalate should it does not 
go my way! I have taken and won these fights, and I am confident I will take 
them on hard, and I will fight till the end. This is a shame.



If I were you, I would write a letter requesting unlimited (or significantly 
more) time so that you have time to go back and adequately make sure that 
your answers read as you want them to. Otherwise, take legal action. This is 
very and very upsetting. I am writing this as angry as one could be. It is 
just sad that these decisions are being made by "bar examiners."



 As an alternative, I would advise that you immediately place another, 
detailed letter in the record, once again documenting your request should 
anything happen GFB. I would note on the letter that you are taking the exam 
under protest, and list the reasons.



The sighted folks can use their laptop out of preference, but for you, they 
have to provide it as an accommodation. They don't require anyone who is 
unable to hand-write to use a court reporter.



Take care, Angie. try not to let this interfere with your preparation as 
much.



Rod Alcidonis, J.D.
C. 718-704-4651
roddj12 at hotmail.com

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Angie Matney" <angie.matney at gmail.com>
To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 7:53 PM
Subject: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied


> Hello,
>
>
>
> I asked for and was granted a Braille MBE and a Braille version of the 
> ssay
> questions. My request to write my answers to the essays was denied. I am
> supposed to dictate them to a court reporter. The documentation I received
> from the VA bar examiners is unclear as to whether or not I will first be
> able to prepare my answers in Braille and then dictate them (it 
> specifically
> says I can do this for the MBE, but not the essays), or whether I have to
> simply dictate my answers. I have serious concerns about my ability to
> perform effectively on the exam if it is the latter. I have never taken an
> essay test via dictation--I mentioned this in my accommodations request. I
> explained why the process was different for the MBE and the essay portion 
> of
> the bar, but apparently my explanation was not sufficient, not understood,
> or not accepted.
>
>
>
> Has anyone been granted the option to use a laptop during the 
> state-specific
> portion of the Bar exam? It is my understanding that this is fairly 
> common.
>
>
>
> Virginia does have a program whereby any person taking the exam can 
> register
> to take it via laptop, but I have concerns about the accessibility of the
> software they use, which disables all but some basic word-processing
> functions of the computer. The software is called Exam4, and the maker is
> Extegrity. Has anyone had experience with this software and a screen 
> reader?
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
>
>
> Angie
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail.com
> 



From dandrews at visi.com  Sat Jun 13 03:02:21 2009
From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews)
Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 22:02:21 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] Let's Tone Down our Comments
Message-ID: <auto-000106154297@mailfront2.g2host.com>

There have been several conversations on this list, in the past 
couple days, where statements made by individuals wither bordered on, 
or were personal attacks against others.

I know that most of you are lawyers, student lawyers, or would-be 
lawyers, and have strong opinions and are willing to state 
them.  Nonetheless, as Moderator I need to remind you that personal 
attacks, even if justified (smile,) are against list rules and 
policy.  If your message consists of something personal about another 
list member, your speculating on her motives for posting a message 
etc., well then, don't post it.  If these attacks persist, people 
will be removed and/or every message will first have to be approved by me.

David Andrews, Moderator



From benkarpilow at gmail.com  Sat Jun 13 05:08:39 2009
From: benkarpilow at gmail.com (Ben Karpilow)
Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 22:08:39 -0700
Subject: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
References: <965679953DA54B9B8EBFBC94FFAE3453@bentar802wznlv><FC50B49ED94B8A45A9AA3CE6D096CAED1E773E@2K3FS1.screnci.local>
	<4a32ea72.1ac1f10a.1f2a.648a@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <E27825F630D4475CB195556A00032034@bentar802wznlv>

Angie, I'm taking the July California bar  and have been granted use of my 
laptop for the essay portion of the exam. California requires  bar 
laptoppers  to install a piece of software called exam soft, which sounds 
similar to Exam4.  However, apparently exam soft is not compatible with 
jaws,meaning I must wipe my computer clean of all superfluous software and 
text files  before taking the exam.  Perhaps, as you inquired, someone on 
this list knows whether Exam4 is compatible with a screen reader. Or, 
perhaps someone at the VA state bar office can tell you that.  That the NCBE 
habitually denies blind test takers use of their technology is an absolute 
joke. I was denied an electronic version of the MBE and am currently in the 
appeals process.  Good luck.

Ben


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Angie Matney" <angie.matney at gmail.com>
To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 4:53 PM
Subject: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied


> Hello,
>
>
>
> I asked for and was granted a Braille MBE and a Braille version of the 
> ssay
> questions. My request to write my answers to the essays was denied. I am
> supposed to dictate them to a court reporter. The documentation I received
> from the VA bar examiners is unclear as to whether or not I will first be
> able to prepare my answers in Braille and then dictate them (it 
> specifically
> says I can do this for the MBE, but not the essays), or whether I have to
> simply dictate my answers. I have serious concerns about my ability to
> perform effectively on the exam if it is the latter. I have never taken an
> essay test via dictation--I mentioned this in my accommodations request. I
> explained why the process was different for the MBE and the essay portion 
> of
> the bar, but apparently my explanation was not sufficient, not understood,
> or not accepted.
>
>
>
> Has anyone been granted the option to use a laptop during the 
> state-specific
> portion of the Bar exam? It is my understanding that this is fairly 
> common.
>
>
>
> Virginia does have a program whereby any person taking the exam can 
> register
> to take it via laptop, but I have concerns about the accessibility of the
> software they use, which disables all but some basic word-processing
> functions of the computer. The software is called Exam4, and the maker is
> Extegrity. Has anyone had experience with this software and a screen 
> reader?
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
>
>
> Angie
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/benkarpilow%40gmail.com
> 



From b75205 at gmail.com  Sat Jun 13 12:12:16 2009
From: b75205 at gmail.com (James Pepper)
Date: Sat, 13 Jun 2009 07:12:16 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
In-Reply-To: <E27825F630D4475CB195556A00032034@bentar802wznlv>
References: <965679953DA54B9B8EBFBC94FFAE3453@bentar802wznlv>
	<FC50B49ED94B8A45A9AA3CE6D096CAED1E773E@2K3FS1.screnci.local>
	<4a32ea72.1ac1f10a.1f2a.648a@mx.google.com>
	<E27825F630D4475CB195556A00032034@bentar802wznlv>
Message-ID: <fe5b78280906130512x4e2a0fe5nae43c6ac85e9f67a@mail.gmail.com>

The University of Ediburgh did a study on Exam4 here is the URL:
http://www.tla.ed.ac.uk/centre/PrincipalsTeachingAward/documents/eexamsreport_final09.pdf

The University of Ediburgh is rquired to be accessible to the blind.  I have
only read the first part of this document and it should be a good starting
place for your concerns.

Apparently without looking at the software Exam4 is designed to limit your
access to virtual operating systems and other software on your system.  But
they do have an "open" mode which will allow you access to your system
software.  So this will be a matter of argument between the test providers
and you as to whether you can access your screen reader or not.

Exam4 states in its FAQ that they are providing the same amount of access to
word processing that you would have if you were writing out your essay with
a pen and paper.  That is the standard they are trying to achieve, hence the
reluctance to use any software.

James Pepper

From b75205 at gmail.com  Sat Jun 13 12:24:44 2009
From: b75205 at gmail.com (James Pepper)
Date: Sat, 13 Jun 2009 07:24:44 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
In-Reply-To: <fe5b78280906130512x4e2a0fe5nae43c6ac85e9f67a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <965679953DA54B9B8EBFBC94FFAE3453@bentar802wznlv>
	<FC50B49ED94B8A45A9AA3CE6D096CAED1E773E@2K3FS1.screnci.local>
	<4a32ea72.1ac1f10a.1f2a.648a@mx.google.com>
	<E27825F630D4475CB195556A00032034@bentar802wznlv>
	<fe5b78280906130512x4e2a0fe5nae43c6ac85e9f67a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <fe5b78280906130524p422b47cawff6d6ae564233d32@mail.gmail.com>

No this article is of no help. sorry about that.

James

From stevep.deeley at insightbb.com  Sat Jun 13 16:27:10 2009
From: stevep.deeley at insightbb.com (Steve P. Deeley)
Date: Sat, 13 Jun 2009 12:27:10 -0400
Subject: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
In-Reply-To: <fe5b78280906130512x4e2a0fe5nae43c6ac85e9f67a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <965679953DA54B9B8EBFBC94FFAE3453@bentar802wznlv>
	<FC50B49ED94B8A45A9AA3CE6D096CAED1E773E@2K3FS1.screnci.local>
	<4a32ea72.1ac1f10a.1f2a.648a@mx.google.com>
	<E27825F630D4475CB195556A00032034@bentar802wznlv>
	<fe5b78280906130512x4e2a0fe5nae43c6ac85e9f67a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7FEBDA4908AF453A983DA3CE6FEC82BD@StevePC>

Wow what an interesting study.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "James Pepper" <b75205 at gmail.com>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, June 13, 2009 8:12 AM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied


> The University of Ediburgh did a study on Exam4 here is the URL:
> http://www.tla.ed.ac.uk/centre/PrincipalsTeachingAward/documents/eexamsreport_final09.pdf
>
> The University of Ediburgh is rquired to be accessible to the blind.  I 
> have
> only read the first part of this document and it should be a good starting
> place for your concerns.
>
> Apparently without looking at the software Exam4 is designed to limit your
> access to virtual operating systems and other software on your system. 
> But
> they do have an "open" mode which will allow you access to your system
> software.  So this will be a matter of argument between the test providers
> and you as to whether you can access your screen reader or not.
>
> Exam4 states in its FAQ that they are providing the same amount of access 
> to
> word processing that you would have if you were writing out your essay 
> with
> a pen and paper.  That is the standard they are trying to achieve, hence 
> the
> reluctance to use any software.
>
> James Pepper
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.67/2173 - Release Date: 06/13/09 
05:53:00



From stevep.deeley at insightbb.com  Sat Jun 13 16:39:20 2009
From: stevep.deeley at insightbb.com (Steve P. Deeley)
Date: Sat, 13 Jun 2009 12:39:20 -0400
Subject: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
In-Reply-To: <BAY105-DAV128E5CD0054D60C0D247A4BB400@phx.gbl>
References: <965679953DA54B9B8EBFBC94FFAE3453@bentar802wznlv>
	<FC50B49ED94B8A45A9AA3CE6D096CAED1E773E@2K3FS1.screnci.local>
	<4a32ea72.1ac1f10a.1f2a.648a@mx.google.com>
	<BAY105-DAV128E5CD0054D60C0D247A4BB400@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <87DC98CD3CF247B6AE64467B9BE384EE@StevePC>

Did they let you use spell-check?
Did they have a proctor in the room with you?


Steve

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Rod Alcidonis" <roddj12 at hotmail.com>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 9:38 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied


> Angie:
>
>
>
> That's upsetting, and  very upsetting. This is a common accommodation
> granted in many many states, including New York, Pennsylvania, etc.
> Pennsylvania granted this accommodation to me without any fights or
> anything. Once the director of the board knew I was blind, he told me that
> this is how all blind takers take their exams, and that this was standard
> for his office. I cannot imagine having to dictate to someone to write for
> you. The thought processes will be lost in the dictation.
>
>
>
> New Jersey is almost trying to do the same thing to me and I am gearing up
> for a long, and hard fight. It's not even my first State; it is my second
> State because it borders with Pennsylvania and there are job prospects 
> there
> for me. They are asking for me to use a reader for the essay portion. I 
> told
> them I have never taken not even a high-school exams in this manner, and I
> will not do it for the bar exam. She told me that she was going to talk 
> more
> with the bar examiners and would get back to me; I am still waiting. I had 
> a
> friendly exchange with her which will certainly escalate should it does 
> not
> go my way! I have taken and won these fights, and I am confident I will 
> take
> them on hard, and I will fight till the end. This is a shame.
>
>
>
> If I were you, I would write a letter requesting unlimited (or 
> significantly
> more) time so that you have time to go back and adequately make sure that
> your answers read as you want them to. Otherwise, take legal action. This 
> is
> very and very upsetting. I am writing this as angry as one could be. It is
> just sad that these decisions are being made by "bar examiners."
>
>
>
> As an alternative, I would advise that you immediately place another,
> detailed letter in the record, once again documenting your request should
> anything happen GFB. I would note on the letter that you are taking the 
> exam
> under protest, and list the reasons.
>
>
>
> The sighted folks can use their laptop out of preference, but for you, 
> they
> have to provide it as an accommodation. They don't require anyone who is
> unable to hand-write to use a court reporter.
>
>
>
> Take care, Angie. try not to let this interfere with your preparation as
> much.
>
>
>
> Rod Alcidonis, J.D.
> C. 718-704-4651
> roddj12 at hotmail.com
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Angie Matney" <angie.matney at gmail.com>
> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 7:53 PM
> Subject: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
>
>
>> Hello,
>>
>>
>>
>> I asked for and was granted a Braille MBE and a Braille version of the
>> ssay
>> questions. My request to write my answers to the essays was denied. I am
>> supposed to dictate them to a court reporter. The documentation I 
>> received
>> from the VA bar examiners is unclear as to whether or not I will first be
>> able to prepare my answers in Braille and then dictate them (it
>> specifically
>> says I can do this for the MBE, but not the essays), or whether I have to
>> simply dictate my answers. I have serious concerns about my ability to
>> perform effectively on the exam if it is the latter. I have never taken 
>> an
>> essay test via dictation--I mentioned this in my accommodations request. 
>> I
>> explained why the process was different for the MBE and the essay portion
>> of
>> the bar, but apparently my explanation was not sufficient, not 
>> understood,
>> or not accepted.
>>
>>
>>
>> Has anyone been granted the option to use a laptop during the
>> state-specific
>> portion of the Bar exam? It is my understanding that this is fairly
>> common.
>>
>>
>>
>> Virginia does have a program whereby any person taking the exam can
>> register
>> to take it via laptop, but I have concerns about the accessibility of the
>> software they use, which disables all but some basic word-processing
>> functions of the computer. The software is called Exam4, and the maker is
>> Extegrity. Has anyone had experience with this software and a screen
>> reader?
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>>
>>
>> Angie
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindlaw:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail.com
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.67/2173 - Release Date: 06/13/09 
05:53:00



From stiehm.law at juno.com  Sat Jun 13 21:46:16 2009
From: stiehm.law at juno.com (Patrick H. Stiehm)
Date: Sat, 13 Jun 2009 17:46:16 -0400
Subject: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
Message-ID: <20090613.174617.4596.0.stiehm.law@juno.com>

Dear Angie,

It sounds like they are trying to accommodate you.  It may not be
satisfactory yet, but I can assure you that they are doing better than
some public agencies in Virginia.  Permit me to make suggest three things
to you, as follows:

1.  Think about doing it with a court reporter.  This is not like
dictating to someone across the desk from you.  A court reporter, is
suppose to be able to do a verbatim transcription as normal talking
speed.  It should be like taking a test where you answer the questions
orally.  Make sure that the permit you to have your answers read back so
you can make corrections and change your answers to the extent you need
to.  You may or may not need to have extra time do that.  In any case ask
for it.

2.  Fully document the problems you for see with the method they want you
to use and offer solutions, if you can.  This will get you much farther
than to threaten litigation right out of the gate.  After all you can
always use that option, later if you have to.

3.  Ask for the names and contact number of any successful blind
applicants who have taken the test as they suggest, so you can talk to
them and learn from their experience.    You never know what you might
find out, one way or the other, that will be of help later.

In any case good luck and let use know how it works out.

Patrick H. Stiehm
Stiehm Law Office
Alexandria, VA 22309
703-360-1089 (Voice)
703-935-8266 (Fax)
 
 
On Fri, 12 Jun 2009 19:53:21 -0400 "Angie Matney"
<angie.matney at gmail.com> writes:
> Hello,
> 
>  
> 
> I asked for and was granted a Braille MBE and a Braille version of 
> the ssay
> questions. My request to write my answers to the essays was denied. 
> I am
> supposed to dictate them to a court reporter. The documentation I 
> received
> from the VA bar examiners is unclear as to whether or not I will 
> first be
> able to prepare my answers in Braille and then dictate them (it 
> specifically
> says I can do this for the MBE, but not the essays), or whether I 
> have to
> simply dictate my answers. I have serious concerns about my ability 
> to
> perform effectively on the exam if it is the latter. I have never 
> taken an
> essay test via dictation--I mentioned this in my accommodations 
> request. I
> explained why the process was different for the MBE and the essay 
> portion of
> the bar, but apparently my explanation was not sufficient, not 
> understood,
> or not accepted.
> 
>  
> 
> Has anyone been granted the option to use a laptop during the 
> state-specific
> portion of the Bar exam? It is my understanding that this is fairly 
> common.
> 
>  
> 
> Virginia does have a program whereby any person taking the exam can 
> register
> to take it via laptop, but I have concerns about the accessibility 
> of the
> software they use, which disables all but some basic 
> word-processing
> functions of the computer. The software is called Exam4, and the 
> maker is
> Extegrity. Has anyone had experience with this software and a screen 
> reader?
> 
>  
> 
> Thanks,
> 
>  
> 
> Angie
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> 
 
____________________________________________________________
Free information - Learn about Criminal Lawyers. Click here.
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/BLSrjpTOVoLbjWAJw0inLJmH78cq1JzrJQLy7POVQCTkQslkaKIO6ESri4g/


From angie.matney at gmail.com  Sun Jun 14 00:40:46 2009
From: angie.matney at gmail.com (Angie Matney)
Date: Sat, 13 Jun 2009 20:40:46 -0400
Subject: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
In-Reply-To: <20090613.174617.4596.0.stiehm.law@juno.com>
References: <20090613.174617.4596.0.stiehm.law@juno.com>
Message-ID: <4a34470b.04c2f10a.69e3.409f@mx.google.com>

Hi Patrick,

My comments are interspersed with yours below.


<<It sounds like they are trying to accommodate you.  It may not be
satisfactory yet, but I can assure you that they are doing better than
some public agencies in Virginia.>>

I worked for the state--for two separate agencies! (grin) Yes, I agree: They
are trying to accommodate me. But I believe the accommodation they have
offered is unsatisfactory.


<<1.  Think about doing it with a court reporter.  This is not like
dictating to someone across the desk from you.  A court reporter, is
suppose to be able to do a verbatim transcription as normal talking
speed.  It should be like taking a test where you answer the questions
orally.  Make sure that the permit you to have your answers read back so
you can make corrections and change your answers to the extent you need
to.  You may or may not need to have extra time do that.  In any case ask
for it.>>

Yes, I'm aware of this. I have never taken such an oral test. Besides. The
bar is not designed to be taken orally. For this reason, I do not believe a
court reporter is the best accommodation for the Bar exam.


<<2.  Fully document the problems you for see with the method they want you
to use and offer solutions, if you can.  This will get you much farther
than to threaten litigation right out of the gate.  After all you can
always use that option, later if you have to.>>

Thanks--this is my plan. I am going to call them on Monday to discuss
elements of the situation which might not have occurred to them. I am going
to point out that since I will have the questions in Braille, the questions
themselves will never be in the memory of my computer. I am also going to
point out that it would be possible for me to save all work to an external
flash drive or memory card. There are several other similar factors that I
believe they have not considered.

<<3.  Ask for the names and contact number of any successful blind
applicants who have taken the test as they suggest, so you can talk to
them and learn from their experience.    You never know what you might
find out, one way or the other, that will be of help later.>>

If it turns out that I *must* take the Bar with thtis method, I might do
this; however, I do not want to perpetuate the mmisconception that an
accommodation that is appropriate for one person will be the best way for
all blind ntest-takers to take the Bar exam.

<<In any case good luck and let use know how it works out.>>

Thanks very much.

Angie



Patrick H. Stiehm
Stiehm Law Office
Alexandria, VA 22309
703-360-1089 (Voice)
703-935-8266 (Fax)
 
 
On Fri, 12 Jun 2009 19:53:21 -0400 "Angie Matney"
<angie.matney at gmail.com> writes:
> Hello,
> 
>  
> 
> I asked for and was granted a Braille MBE and a Braille version of 
> the ssay
> questions. My request to write my answers to the essays was denied. 
> I am
> supposed to dictate them to a court reporter. The documentation I 
> received
> from the VA bar examiners is unclear as to whether or not I will 
> first be
> able to prepare my answers in Braille and then dictate them (it 
> specifically
> says I can do this for the MBE, but not the essays), or whether I 
> have to
> simply dictate my answers. I have serious concerns about my ability 
> to
> perform effectively on the exam if it is the latter. I have never 
> taken an
> essay test via dictation--I mentioned this in my accommodations 
> request. I
> explained why the process was different for the MBE and the essay 
> portion of
> the bar, but apparently my explanation was not sufficient, not 
> understood,
> or not accepted.
> 
>  
> 
> Has anyone been granted the option to use a laptop during the 
> state-specific
> portion of the Bar exam? It is my understanding that this is fairly 
> common.
> 
>  
> 
> Virginia does have a program whereby any person taking the exam can 
> register
> to take it via laptop, but I have concerns about the accessibility 
> of the
> software they use, which disables all but some basic 
> word-processing
> functions of the computer. The software is called Exam4, and the 
> maker is
> Extegrity. Has anyone had experience with this software and a screen 
> reader?
> 
>  
> 
> Thanks,
> 
>  
> 
> Angie
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> 
 
____________________________________________________________
Free information - Learn about Criminal Lawyers. Click here.
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/BLSrjpTOVoLbjWAJw0inLJmH78cq1Jzr
JQLy7POVQCTkQslkaKIO6ESri4g/

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il.com



From JMcCarthy at nfb.org  Sun Jun 14 16:23:00 2009
From: JMcCarthy at nfb.org (McCarthy, Jim)
Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 12:23:00 -0400
Subject: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
In-Reply-To: <E27825F630D4475CB195556A00032034@bentar802wznlv>
Message-ID: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6BF01001@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local>

To be fair about the MBE part of things, I actually think that
California is denying your request because they cannot get an electronic
version from the multistate Bar Examination body.  It would seem that an
accessible MBE is possible, but I don't think they have done anything to
make it a reality.  It seems, therefore, that protesting the state's
board of examiners decision, which I think is the result of their
inability to get from the MBE folks what you ask for, will not get you
very far.  In recent years I have thought about this some because as Rod
states, it seems that most states, apparently but for Virginia, allow
use of a computer for the essay part of their exams these days.  The
legal profession certainly is slow to change.
Best
Jim McCarthy   

-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
On Behalf Of Ben Karpilow
Sent: Saturday, June 13, 2009 1:09 AM
To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied

Angie, I'm taking the July California bar  and have been granted use of
my laptop for the essay portion of the exam. California requires  bar
laptoppers  to install a piece of software called exam soft, which
sounds similar to Exam4.  However, apparently exam soft is not
compatible with jaws,meaning I must wipe my computer clean of all
superfluous software and text files  before taking the exam.  Perhaps,
as you inquired, someone on this list knows whether Exam4 is compatible
with a screen reader. Or, perhaps someone at the VA state bar office can
tell you that.  That the NCBE habitually denies blind test takers use of
their technology is an absolute joke. I was denied an electronic version
of the MBE and am currently in the appeals process.  Good luck.

Ben


----- Original Message -----
From: "Angie Matney" <angie.matney at gmail.com>
To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 4:53 PM
Subject: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied


> Hello,
>
>
>
> I asked for and was granted a Braille MBE and a Braille version of the

> ssay
> questions. My request to write my answers to the essays was denied. I
am
> supposed to dictate them to a court reporter. The documentation I
received
> from the VA bar examiners is unclear as to whether or not I will first
be
> able to prepare my answers in Braille and then dictate them (it 
> specifically
> says I can do this for the MBE, but not the essays), or whether I have
to
> simply dictate my answers. I have serious concerns about my ability to
> perform effectively on the exam if it is the latter. I have never
taken an
> essay test via dictation--I mentioned this in my accommodations
request. I
> explained why the process was different for the MBE and the essay
portion 
> of
> the bar, but apparently my explanation was not sufficient, not
understood,
> or not accepted.
>
>
>
> Has anyone been granted the option to use a laptop during the 
> state-specific
> portion of the Bar exam? It is my understanding that this is fairly 
> common.
>
>
>
> Virginia does have a program whereby any person taking the exam can 
> register
> to take it via laptop, but I have concerns about the accessibility of
the
> software they use, which disables all but some basic word-processing
> functions of the computer. The software is called Exam4, and the maker
is
> Extegrity. Has anyone had experience with this software and a screen 
> reader?
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
>
>
> Angie
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>


------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------


> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/benkarpilow%40
gmail.com
> 


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http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
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b.org


From roddj12 at hotmail.com  Sun Jun 14 18:45:02 2009
From: roddj12 at hotmail.com (Rod Alcidonis)
Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 14:45:02 -0400
Subject: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
References: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6BF01001@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local>
Message-ID: <BAY105-DAV3286CB50FCFD6FE77B90ABB410@phx.gbl>

Jim:

You are absolutely right. The director of the Board of Law Examiners in 
Pennsylvania told me the same thing. He said he would be glad to allow me to 
take the MBE electronically but since its not his exam, and the MBE folks 
aren't allowing it, he has to comply. The denial for the essay, however, is 
a state matter.

Rod Alcidonis, J.D.
C. 718-704-4651
roddj12 at hotmail.com

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "McCarthy, Jim" <JMcCarthy at nfb.org>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 12:23 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied


> To be fair about the MBE part of things, I actually think that
> California is denying your request because they cannot get an electronic
> version from the multistate Bar Examination body.  It would seem that an
> accessible MBE is possible, but I don't think they have done anything to
> make it a reality.  It seems, therefore, that protesting the state's
> board of examiners decision, which I think is the result of their
> inability to get from the MBE folks what you ask for, will not get you
> very far.  In recent years I have thought about this some because as Rod
> states, it seems that most states, apparently but for Virginia, allow
> use of a computer for the essay part of their exams these days.  The
> legal profession certainly is slow to change.
> Best
> Jim McCarthy
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
> On Behalf Of Ben Karpilow
> Sent: Saturday, June 13, 2009 1:09 AM
> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
>
> Angie, I'm taking the July California bar  and have been granted use of
> my laptop for the essay portion of the exam. California requires  bar
> laptoppers  to install a piece of software called exam soft, which
> sounds similar to Exam4.  However, apparently exam soft is not
> compatible with jaws,meaning I must wipe my computer clean of all
> superfluous software and text files  before taking the exam.  Perhaps,
> as you inquired, someone on this list knows whether Exam4 is compatible
> with a screen reader. Or, perhaps someone at the VA state bar office can
> tell you that.  That the NCBE habitually denies blind test takers use of
> their technology is an absolute joke. I was denied an electronic version
> of the MBE and am currently in the appeals process.  Good luck.
>
> Ben
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Angie Matney" <angie.matney at gmail.com>
> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 4:53 PM
> Subject: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
>
>
>> Hello,
>>
>>
>>
>> I asked for and was granted a Braille MBE and a Braille version of the
>
>> ssay
>> questions. My request to write my answers to the essays was denied. I
> am
>> supposed to dictate them to a court reporter. The documentation I
> received
>> from the VA bar examiners is unclear as to whether or not I will first
> be
>> able to prepare my answers in Braille and then dictate them (it
>> specifically
>> says I can do this for the MBE, but not the essays), or whether I have
> to
>> simply dictate my answers. I have serious concerns about my ability to
>> perform effectively on the exam if it is the latter. I have never
> taken an
>> essay test via dictation--I mentioned this in my accommodations
> request. I
>> explained why the process was different for the MBE and the essay
> portion
>> of
>> the bar, but apparently my explanation was not sufficient, not
> understood,
>> or not accepted.
>>
>>
>>
>> Has anyone been granted the option to use a laptop during the
>> state-specific
>> portion of the Bar exam? It is my understanding that this is fairly
>> common.
>>
>>
>>
>> Virginia does have a program whereby any person taking the exam can
>> register
>> to take it via laptop, but I have concerns about the accessibility of
> the
>> software they use, which disables all but some basic word-processing
>> functions of the computer. The software is called Exam4, and the maker
> is
>> Extegrity. Has anyone had experience with this software and a screen
>> reader?
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>>
>>
>> Angie
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> --------
>
>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindlaw:
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/benkarpilow%40
> gmail.com
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jmccarthy%40nf
> b.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail.com
> 



From angie.matney at gmail.com  Sun Jun 14 19:18:31 2009
From: angie.matney at gmail.com (Angie Matney)
Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 15:18:31 -0400
Subject: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
In-Reply-To: <BAY105-DAV3286CB50FCFD6FE77B90ABB410@phx.gbl>
References: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6BF01001@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local>
	<BAY105-DAV3286CB50FCFD6FE77B90ABB410@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <4a354d03.86c3f10a.0d1b.4f44@mx.google.com>

For those who are lucky enough to be able to use a laptop on the essays, I
have a thought. If I am ultimately granted this accommodation, I expect the
Board will ask me to wipe my computer clean. I believe that, instead of
gutting my computer (and then worrying that I have inadvertently left
something on there that shouldn't be there), I am going to buy a second
netbook for use on the bar. A netbook costs around $400. I might buy one
just like the one I am using now. I can always sell it at a discount after
I'm done. (Then again, I might keep it and turn it into a linux
machine...but that''s a topic of discussion for another list.) Current
netbooks comply with the technical requirements that Virginia has for
laptops. Also, the batter ycan last for an entire day of testing without
needing to be recharged.

This is not exactly the cheapest solution, but I believe it's what I will do
it I need a clean computer.

Angie



From b.schulz at sbcglobal.net  Sun Jun 14 22:50:45 2009
From: b.schulz at sbcglobal.net (Bryan Schulz)
Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 17:50:45 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
References: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6BF01001@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local><BAY105-DAV3286CB50FCFD6FE77B90ABB410@phx.gbl>
	<4a354d03.86c3f10a.0d1b.4f44@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <8890DEF2DAEF4AC89881B5750993217B@notebook>

Hi,

DUMB!
buy another 2.5" laptop hard drive and a thin sata to usb enclosure.
then use casper to clone your drive to the second hard drive as it is free 
for 30 days.
then uninstall everything you have to in order to comply with the testing 
rules.
after the test, swap the hard drives as the new one will most likely have 
much more capacity and you could then use the original smaller drive in the 
usb enclosure for extra storage.
the new drive and enclosure will cost about $80.

Bryan Schulz
The BEST Solution
www.best-acts.com

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Angie Matney" <angie.matney at gmail.com>
To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 2:18 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied


> For those who are lucky enough to be able to use a laptop on the essays, I
> have a thought. If I am ultimately granted this accommodation, I expect 
> the
> Board will ask me to wipe my computer clean. I believe that, instead of
> gutting my computer (and then worrying that I have inadvertently left
> something on there that shouldn't be there), I am going to buy a second
> netbook for use on the bar. A netbook costs around $400. I might buy one
> just like the one I am using now. I can always sell it at a discount after
> I'm done. (Then again, I might keep it and turn it into a linux
> machine...but that''s a topic of discussion for another list.) Current
> netbooks comply with the technical requirements that Virginia has for
> laptops. Also, the batter ycan last for an entire day of testing without
> needing to be recharged.
>
> This is not exactly the cheapest solution, but I believe it's what I will 
> do
> it I need a clean computer.
>
> Angie
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b.schulz%40sbcglobal.net 



From angie.matney at gmail.com  Sun Jun 14 23:37:30 2009
From: angie.matney at gmail.com (Angie Matney)
Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 19:37:30 -0400
Subject: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
In-Reply-To: <8890DEF2DAEF4AC89881B5750993217B@notebook>
References: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6BF01001@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local><BAY105-DAV3286CB50FCFD6FE77B90ABB410@phx.gbl>	<4a354d03.86c3f10a.0d1b.4f44@mx.google.com>
	<8890DEF2DAEF4AC89881B5750993217B@notebook>
Message-ID: <4a3589b7.86c3f10a.6ae6.03fd@mx.google.com>

Uhm, did you miss the part about wanting a linux machine? (grin)



-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Bryan Schulz
Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 6:51 PM
To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied

Hi,

DUMB!
buy another 2.5" laptop hard drive and a thin sata to usb enclosure.
then use casper to clone your drive to the second hard drive as it is free 
for 30 days.
then uninstall everything you have to in order to comply with the testing 
rules.
after the test, swap the hard drives as the new one will most likely have 
much more capacity and you could then use the original smaller drive in the 
usb enclosure for extra storage.
the new drive and enclosure will cost about $80.

Bryan Schulz
The BEST Solution
www.best-acts.com

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Angie Matney" <angie.matney at gmail.com>
To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 2:18 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied


> For those who are lucky enough to be able to use a laptop on the essays, I
> have a thought. If I am ultimately granted this accommodation, I expect 
> the
> Board will ask me to wipe my computer clean. I believe that, instead of
> gutting my computer (and then worrying that I have inadvertently left
> something on there that shouldn't be there), I am going to buy a second
> netbook for use on the bar. A netbook costs around $400. I might buy one
> just like the one I am using now. I can always sell it at a discount after
> I'm done. (Then again, I might keep it and turn it into a linux
> machine...but that''s a topic of discussion for another list.) Current
> netbooks comply with the technical requirements that Virginia has for
> laptops. Also, the batter ycan last for an entire day of testing without
> needing to be recharged.
>
> This is not exactly the cheapest solution, but I believe it's what I will 
> do
> it I need a clean computer.
>
> Angie
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b.schulz%40sbcglob
al.net 


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blindlaw at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
blindlaw:
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il.com



From angie.matney at gmail.com  Sun Jun 14 23:45:33 2009
From: angie.matney at gmail.com (Angie Matney)
Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 19:45:33 -0400
Subject: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
In-Reply-To: <8890DEF2DAEF4AC89881B5750993217B@notebook>
References: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6BF01001@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local><BAY105-DAV3286CB50FCFD6FE77B90ABB410@phx.gbl>	<4a354d03.86c3f10a.0d1b.4f44@mx.google.com>
	<8890DEF2DAEF4AC89881B5750993217B@notebook>
Message-ID: <4a358b99.1ac1f10a.0ed9.4fff@mx.google.com>

Also, using my strategy will enable me to take my fully operational computer
with me for use in the evenings. I fully admit this is not the cheapest way
to go, but there is no call for you to be rude about it. Simply don't do as
I have suggested. Post your own ideas and refrain from junior-high-school
dialogue.



-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Bryan Schulz
Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 6:51 PM
To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied

Hi,

DUMB!
buy another 2.5" laptop hard drive and a thin sata to usb enclosure.
then use casper to clone your drive to the second hard drive as it is free 
for 30 days.
then uninstall everything you have to in order to comply with the testing 
rules.
after the test, swap the hard drives as the new one will most likely have 
much more capacity and you could then use the original smaller drive in the 
usb enclosure for extra storage.
the new drive and enclosure will cost about $80.

Bryan Schulz
The BEST Solution
www.best-acts.com

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Angie Matney" <angie.matney at gmail.com>
To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 2:18 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied


> For those who are lucky enough to be able to use a laptop on the essays, I
> have a thought. If I am ultimately granted this accommodation, I expect 
> the
> Board will ask me to wipe my computer clean. I believe that, instead of
> gutting my computer (and then worrying that I have inadvertently left
> something on there that shouldn't be there), I am going to buy a second
> netbook for use on the bar. A netbook costs around $400. I might buy one
> just like the one I am using now. I can always sell it at a discount after
> I'm done. (Then again, I might keep it and turn it into a linux
> machine...but that''s a topic of discussion for another list.) Current
> netbooks comply with the technical requirements that Virginia has for
> laptops. Also, the batter ycan last for an entire day of testing without
> needing to be recharged.
>
> This is not exactly the cheapest solution, but I believe it's what I will 
> do
> it I need a clean computer.
>
> Angie
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b.schulz%40sbcglob
al.net 


_______________________________________________
blindlaw mailing list
blindlaw at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
blindlaw:
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il.com



From stevep.deeley at insightbb.com  Mon Jun 15 00:20:22 2009
From: stevep.deeley at insightbb.com (Steve P. Deeley)
Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 20:20:22 -0400
Subject: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
In-Reply-To: <4a358b99.1ac1f10a.0ed9.4fff@mx.google.com>
References: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6BF01001@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local>
	<BAY105-DAV3286CB50FCFD6FE77B90ABB410@phx.gbl>
	<4a354d03.86c3f10a.0d1b.4f44@mx.google.com>
	<8890DEF2DAEF4AC89881B5750993217B@notebook>
	<4a358b99.1ac1f10a.0ed9.4fff@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <FCF7F5B089A244698310E799347833E4@StevePC>

I don't know why he had to send you an e-mail like that one.
Steve
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Angie Matney" <angie.matney at gmail.com>
To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 7:45 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied


> Also, using my strategy will enable me to take my fully operational 
> computer
> with me for use in the evenings. I fully admit this is not the cheapest 
> way
> to go, but there is no call for you to be rude about it. Simply don't do 
> as
> I have suggested. Post your own ideas and refrain from junior-high-school
> dialogue.
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Bryan Schulz
> Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 6:51 PM
> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
>
> Hi,
>
> DUMB!
> buy another 2.5" laptop hard drive and a thin sata to usb enclosure.
> then use casper to clone your drive to the second hard drive as it is free
> for 30 days.
> then uninstall everything you have to in order to comply with the testing
> rules.
> after the test, swap the hard drives as the new one will most likely have
> much more capacity and you could then use the original smaller drive in 
> the
> usb enclosure for extra storage.
> the new drive and enclosure will cost about $80.
>
> Bryan Schulz
> The BEST Solution
> www.best-acts.com
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Angie Matney" <angie.matney at gmail.com>
> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 2:18 PM
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
>
>
>> For those who are lucky enough to be able to use a laptop on the essays, 
>> I
>> have a thought. If I am ultimately granted this accommodation, I expect
>> the
>> Board will ask me to wipe my computer clean. I believe that, instead of
>> gutting my computer (and then worrying that I have inadvertently left
>> something on there that shouldn't be there), I am going to buy a second
>> netbook for use on the bar. A netbook costs around $400. I might buy one
>> just like the one I am using now. I can always sell it at a discount 
>> after
>> I'm done. (Then again, I might keep it and turn it into a linux
>> machine...but that''s a topic of discussion for another list.) Current
>> netbooks comply with the technical requirements that Virginia has for
>> laptops. Also, the batter ycan last for an entire day of testing without
>> needing to be recharged.
>>
>> This is not exactly the cheapest solution, but I believe it's what I will
>> do
>> it I need a clean computer.
>>
>> Angie
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindlaw:
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b.schulz%40sbcglob
> al.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie.matney%40gma
> il.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.69/2176 - Release Date: 06/14/09 
17:54:00



From b.schulz at sbcglobal.net  Mon Jun 15 01:56:50 2009
From: b.schulz at sbcglobal.net (Bryan Schulz)
Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 20:56:50 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
References: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6BF01001@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local><BAY105-DAV3286CB50FCFD6FE77B90ABB410@phx.gbl>	<4a354d03.86c3f10a.0d1b.4f44@mx.google.com><8890DEF2DAEF4AC89881B5750993217B@notebook>
	<4a3589b7.86c3f10a.6ae6.03fd@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <A21938F1ECCD47A9AF456EE103E8B437@notebook>

hi,

no, i saw that idea and don't know why you would want to do things the hard 
way or different/use software probably not used by colleagues or others in 
your field.

Bryan Schulz
The BEST Solution
www.best-acts.com

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Angie Matney" <angie.matney at gmail.com>
To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 6:37 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied


> Uhm, did you miss the part about wanting a linux machine? (grin)
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Bryan Schulz
> Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 6:51 PM
> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
>
> Hi,
>
> DUMB!
> buy another 2.5" laptop hard drive and a thin sata to usb enclosure.
> then use casper to clone your drive to the second hard drive as it is free
> for 30 days.
> then uninstall everything you have to in order to comply with the testing
> rules.
> after the test, swap the hard drives as the new one will most likely have
> much more capacity and you could then use the original smaller drive in 
> the
> usb enclosure for extra storage.
> the new drive and enclosure will cost about $80.
>
> Bryan Schulz
> The BEST Solution
> www.best-acts.com
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Angie Matney" <angie.matney at gmail.com>
> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 2:18 PM
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
>
>
>> For those who are lucky enough to be able to use a laptop on the essays, 
>> I
>> have a thought. If I am ultimately granted this accommodation, I expect
>> the
>> Board will ask me to wipe my computer clean. I believe that, instead of
>> gutting my computer (and then worrying that I have inadvertently left
>> something on there that shouldn't be there), I am going to buy a second
>> netbook for use on the bar. A netbook costs around $400. I might buy one
>> just like the one I am using now. I can always sell it at a discount 
>> after
>> I'm done. (Then again, I might keep it and turn it into a linux
>> machine...but that''s a topic of discussion for another list.) Current
>> netbooks comply with the technical requirements that Virginia has for
>> laptops. Also, the batter ycan last for an entire day of testing without
>> needing to be recharged.
>>
>> This is not exactly the cheapest solution, but I believe it's what I will
>> do
>> it I need a clean computer.
>>
>> Angie
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindlaw:
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b.schulz%40sbcglob
> al.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie.matney%40gma
> il.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b.schulz%40sbcglobal.net 



From b.schulz at sbcglobal.net  Mon Jun 15 02:01:25 2009
From: b.schulz at sbcglobal.net (Bryan Schulz)
Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 21:01:25 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
References: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6BF01001@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local><BAY105-DAV3286CB50FCFD6FE77B90ABB410@phx.gbl>	<4a354d03.86c3f10a.0d1b.4f44@mx.google.com><8890DEF2DAEF4AC89881B5750993217B@notebook>
	<4a358b99.1ac1f10a.0ed9.4fff@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <6C964A8115B9485DB4FDF54D0AF5E42C@notebook>

hi,

i guess a one word opinion to you is long winded rude high school banter.
it sounded like you wanted a cheap solution and i offered one.

Bryan Schulz
The BEST Solution
www.best-acts.com

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Angie Matney" <angie.matney at gmail.com>
To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 6:45 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied


> Also, using my strategy will enable me to take my fully operational 
> computer
> with me for use in the evenings. I fully admit this is not the cheapest 
> way
> to go, but there is no call for you to be rude about it. Simply don't do 
> as
> I have suggested. Post your own ideas and refrain from junior-high-school
> dialogue.
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Bryan Schulz
> Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 6:51 PM
> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
>
> Hi,
>
> DUMB!
> buy another 2.5" laptop hard drive and a thin sata to usb enclosure.
> then use casper to clone your drive to the second hard drive as it is free
> for 30 days.
> then uninstall everything you have to in order to comply with the testing
> rules.
> after the test, swap the hard drives as the new one will most likely have
> much more capacity and you could then use the original smaller drive in 
> the
> usb enclosure for extra storage.
> the new drive and enclosure will cost about $80.
>
> Bryan Schulz
> The BEST Solution
> www.best-acts.com
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Angie Matney" <angie.matney at gmail.com>
> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 2:18 PM
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
>
>
>> For those who are lucky enough to be able to use a laptop on the essays, 
>> I
>> have a thought. If I am ultimately granted this accommodation, I expect
>> the
>> Board will ask me to wipe my computer clean. I believe that, instead of
>> gutting my computer (and then worrying that I have inadvertently left
>> something on there that shouldn't be there), I am going to buy a second
>> netbook for use on the bar. A netbook costs around $400. I might buy one
>> just like the one I am using now. I can always sell it at a discount 
>> after
>> I'm done. (Then again, I might keep it and turn it into a linux
>> machine...but that''s a topic of discussion for another list.) Current
>> netbooks comply with the technical requirements that Virginia has for
>> laptops. Also, the batter ycan last for an entire day of testing without
>> needing to be recharged.
>>
>> This is not exactly the cheapest solution, but I believe it's what I will
>> do
>> it I need a clean computer.
>>
>> Angie
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindlaw:
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b.schulz%40sbcglob
> al.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie.matney%40gma
> il.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b.schulz%40sbcglobal.net 



From rjs59 at hotmail.com  Mon Jun 15 02:28:04 2009
From: rjs59 at hotmail.com (RJ Sandefur)
Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 22:28:04 -0400
Subject: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
References: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6BF01001@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local><BAY105-DAV3286CB50FCFD6FE77B90ABB410@phx.gbl>	<4a354d03.86c3f10a.0d1b.4f44@mx.google.com><8890DEF2DAEF4AC89881B5750993217B@notebook><4a3589b7.86c3f10a.6ae6.03fd@mx.google.com>
	<A21938F1ECCD47A9AF456EE103E8B437@notebook>
Message-ID: <BAY106-DAV13B0DDDF4370A8DCAB4791A83E0@phx.gbl>

Bryan, What is your take on web sights such  as twitter, which use capcha? 
Has any one with within the blindness comunity tryed contacting the 
developers of twitter concerning the needs and concerns of the blind 
comunity concerning this issue? RJ
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Bryan Schulz" <b.schulz at sbcglobal.net>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 9:56 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied


> hi,
>
> no, i saw that idea and don't know why you would want to do things the 
> hard way or different/use software probably not used by colleagues or 
> others in your field.
>
> Bryan Schulz
> The BEST Solution
> www.best-acts.com
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Angie Matney" <angie.matney at gmail.com>
> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 6:37 PM
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
>
>
>> Uhm, did you miss the part about wanting a linux machine? (grin)
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf Of Bryan Schulz
>> Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 6:51 PM
>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> DUMB!
>> buy another 2.5" laptop hard drive and a thin sata to usb enclosure.
>> then use casper to clone your drive to the second hard drive as it is 
>> free
>> for 30 days.
>> then uninstall everything you have to in order to comply with the testing
>> rules.
>> after the test, swap the hard drives as the new one will most likely have
>> much more capacity and you could then use the original smaller drive in 
>> the
>> usb enclosure for extra storage.
>> the new drive and enclosure will cost about $80.
>>
>> Bryan Schulz
>> The BEST Solution
>> www.best-acts.com
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Angie Matney" <angie.matney at gmail.com>
>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 2:18 PM
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
>>
>>
>>> For those who are lucky enough to be able to use a laptop on the essays, 
>>> I
>>> have a thought. If I am ultimately granted this accommodation, I expect
>>> the
>>> Board will ask me to wipe my computer clean. I believe that, instead of
>>> gutting my computer (and then worrying that I have inadvertently left
>>> something on there that shouldn't be there), I am going to buy a second
>>> netbook for use on the bar. A netbook costs around $400. I might buy one
>>> just like the one I am using now. I can always sell it at a discount 
>>> after
>>> I'm done. (Then again, I might keep it and turn it into a linux
>>> machine...but that''s a topic of discussion for another list.) Current
>>> netbooks comply with the technical requirements that Virginia has for
>>> laptops. Also, the batter ycan last for an entire day of testing without
>>> needing to be recharged.
>>>
>>> This is not exactly the cheapest solution, but I believe it's what I 
>>> will
>>> do
>>> it I need a clean computer.
>>>
>>> Angie
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> blindlaw:
>>>
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b.schulz%40sbcglob
>> al.net
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindlaw:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie.matney%40gma
>> il.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> blindlaw:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b.schulz%40sbcglobal.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rjs59%40hotmail.com
> 



From b.schulz at sbcglobal.net  Mon Jun 15 02:39:29 2009
From: b.schulz at sbcglobal.net (Bryan Schulz)
Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 21:39:29 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
References: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6BF01001@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local><BAY105-DAV3286CB50FCFD6FE77B90ABB410@phx.gbl>	<4a354d03.86c3f10a.0d1b.4f44@mx.google.com><8890DEF2DAEF4AC89881B5750993217B@notebook><4a3589b7.86c3f10a.6ae6.03fd@mx.google.com><A21938F1ECCD47A9AF456EE103E8B437@notebook>
	<BAY106-DAV13B0DDDF4370A8DCAB4791A83E0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <B47E9B4F3861487EADA74CAA9C895E06@notebook>

hi,

i don't get the big idea about all these social sites but
a good work around for us is to use firefox and the captia buster plugin.

Bryan Schulz
The BEST Solution
www.best-acts.com

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "RJ Sandefur" <rjs59 at hotmail.com>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 9:28 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied


> Bryan, What is your take on web sights such  as twitter, which use capcha? 
> Has any one with within the blindness comunity tryed contacting the 
> developers of twitter concerning the needs and concerns of the blind 
> comunity concerning this issue? RJ
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Bryan Schulz" <b.schulz at sbcglobal.net>
> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 9:56 PM
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
>
>
>> hi,
>>
>> no, i saw that idea and don't know why you would want to do things the 
>> hard way or different/use software probably not used by colleagues or 
>> others in your field.
>>
>> Bryan Schulz
>> The BEST Solution
>> www.best-acts.com
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Angie Matney" <angie.matney at gmail.com>
>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 6:37 PM
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
>>
>>
>>> Uhm, did you miss the part about wanting a linux machine? (grin)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] 
>>> On
>>> Behalf Of Bryan Schulz
>>> Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 6:51 PM
>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> DUMB!
>>> buy another 2.5" laptop hard drive and a thin sata to usb enclosure.
>>> then use casper to clone your drive to the second hard drive as it is 
>>> free
>>> for 30 days.
>>> then uninstall everything you have to in order to comply with the 
>>> testing
>>> rules.
>>> after the test, swap the hard drives as the new one will most likely 
>>> have
>>> much more capacity and you could then use the original smaller drive in 
>>> the
>>> usb enclosure for extra storage.
>>> the new drive and enclosure will cost about $80.
>>>
>>> Bryan Schulz
>>> The BEST Solution
>>> www.best-acts.com
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: "Angie Matney" <angie.matney at gmail.com>
>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 2:18 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
>>>
>>>
>>>> For those who are lucky enough to be able to use a laptop on the 
>>>> essays, I
>>>> have a thought. If I am ultimately granted this accommodation, I expect
>>>> the
>>>> Board will ask me to wipe my computer clean. I believe that, instead of
>>>> gutting my computer (and then worrying that I have inadvertently left
>>>> something on there that shouldn't be there), I am going to buy a second
>>>> netbook for use on the bar. A netbook costs around $400. I might buy 
>>>> one
>>>> just like the one I am using now. I can always sell it at a discount 
>>>> after
>>>> I'm done. (Then again, I might keep it and turn it into a linux
>>>> machine...but that''s a topic of discussion for another list.) Current
>>>> netbooks comply with the technical requirements that Virginia has for
>>>> laptops. Also, the batter ycan last for an entire day of testing 
>>>> without
>>>> needing to be recharged.
>>>>
>>>> This is not exactly the cheapest solution, but I believe it's what I 
>>>> will
>>>> do
>>>> it I need a clean computer.
>>>>
>>>> Angie
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b.schulz%40sbcglob
>>> al.net
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> blindlaw:
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie.matney%40gma
>>> il.com
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>>> blindlaw:
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b.schulz%40sbcglobal.net
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> blindlaw:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rjs59%40hotmail.com
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b.schulz%40sbcglobal.net 



From timandvickie at hotmail.com  Mon Jun 15 02:56:32 2009
From: timandvickie at hotmail.com (Tim Shaw)
Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 02:56:32 +0000
Subject: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
In-Reply-To: <A21938F1ECCD47A9AF456EE103E8B437@notebook>
References: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6BF01001@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local><BAY105-DAV3286CB50FCFD6FE77B90ABB410@phx.gbl>
	<4a354d03.86c3f10a.0d1b.4f44@mx.google.com><8890DEF2DAEF4AC89881B5750993217B@notebook>
	<4a3589b7.86c3f10a.6ae6.03fd@mx.google.com> 
	<A21938F1ECCD47A9AF456EE103E8B437@notebook>
Message-ID: <BAY139-W118308DEE3C7EE78559119CF3E0@phx.gbl>


I didnt have to wipe my hard drive
 
> From: b.schulz at sbcglobal.net
> To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 20:56:50 -0500
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
> 
> hi,
> 
> no, i saw that idea and don't know why you would want to do things the hard 
> way or different/use software probably not used by colleagues or others in 
> your field.
> 
> Bryan Schulz
> The BEST Solution
> www.best-acts.com
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Angie Matney" <angie.matney at gmail.com>
> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 6:37 PM
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
> 
> 
> > Uhm, did you miss the part about wanting a linux machine? (grin)
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> > Behalf Of Bryan Schulz
> > Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 6:51 PM
> > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
> > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > DUMB!
> > buy another 2.5" laptop hard drive and a thin sata to usb enclosure.
> > then use casper to clone your drive to the second hard drive as it is free
> > for 30 days.
> > then uninstall everything you have to in order to comply with the testing
> > rules.
> > after the test, swap the hard drives as the new one will most likely have
> > much more capacity and you could then use the original smaller drive in 
> > the
> > usb enclosure for extra storage.
> > the new drive and enclosure will cost about $80.
> >
> > Bryan Schulz
> > The BEST Solution
> > www.best-acts.com
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > From: "Angie Matney" <angie.matney at gmail.com>
> > To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> > Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 2:18 PM
> > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
> >
> >
> >> For those who are lucky enough to be able to use a laptop on the essays, 
> >> I
> >> have a thought. If I am ultimately granted this accommodation, I expect
> >> the
> >> Board will ask me to wipe my computer clean. I believe that, instead of
> >> gutting my computer (and then worrying that I have inadvertently left
> >> something on there that shouldn't be there), I am going to buy a second
> >> netbook for use on the bar. A netbook costs around $400. I might buy one
> >> just like the one I am using now. I can always sell it at a discount 
> >> after
> >> I'm done. (Then again, I might keep it and turn it into a linux
> >> machine...but that''s a topic of discussion for another list.) Current
> >> netbooks comply with the technical requirements that Virginia has for
> >> laptops. Also, the batter ycan last for an entire day of testing without
> >> needing to be recharged.
> >>
> >> This is not exactly the cheapest solution, but I believe it's what I will
> >> do
> >> it I need a clean computer.
> >>
> >> Angie
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> blindlaw mailing list
> >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >> blindlaw:
> >>
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b.schulz%40sbcglob
> > al.net
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > blindlaw mailing list
> > blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > blindlaw:
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie.matney%40gma
> > il.com
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > blindlaw mailing list
> > blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> > blindlaw:
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b.schulz%40sbcglobal.net 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/timandvickie%40hotmail.com

_________________________________________________________________
Windows Live™: Keep your life in sync. 
http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_BR_life_in_synch_062009

From cdborne at gmail.com  Mon Jun 15 04:40:02 2009
From: cdborne at gmail.com (Craig Borne)
Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 00:40:02 -0400
Subject: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
In-Reply-To: <8890DEF2DAEF4AC89881B5750993217B@notebook>
References: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6BF01001@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local><BAY105-DAV3286CB50FCFD6FE77B90ABB410@phx.gbl><4a354d03.86c3f10a.0d1b.4f44@mx.google.com>
	<8890DEF2DAEF4AC89881B5750993217B@notebook>
Message-ID: <003401c9ed73$597ce8b0$0401a8c0@computer>

Bryan,

You really need to learn a little tact.  She was looking for a work-around
to an accommodation issue, not a tech solution to what she needed.

Frankly, I am getting really tired of the non-attorney participants on this
list chiming in on law (or bar exam) issues.  Is this or is it not a list
for blind lawyers and law related to blind related issues?  If so, why are
the attorneys (or law students) on this list constantly assaulted with
flaming comments that neither answer legal questions nor promote the
practice of law with blind attorneys?  Over the past few weeks, I have
exercised my delete key more often than in the past due to the high email
traffic related neither to the practice of law nor to legal issues related
to blind plaintiffs/defendants.

I respectfully ask that this loosy-goosy monitoring of this list serve be
tightened.  I am frankly tired of receiving emails containing flames from
non-attorneys discussing non-legal topics.  It is a waste of time and an
annoyance.  I, as a practicing attorney, am less inclined to post a query to
this list because I don't have the time or patience to deal with the replies
coming from judgmental, non-legal participants in this list.

Either blind attorneys/law students have a forum on blindnet, or they do
not.

Craig


Craig Borne
Baltimore, Maryland
"A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial
appearance of being right, and raises at first a formidable outcry in
defense of custom."  --Thomas Paine, Common Sense

-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Bryan Schulz
Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 6:51 PM
To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied

Hi,

DUMB!
buy another 2.5" laptop hard drive and a thin sata to usb enclosure.
then use casper to clone your drive to the second hard drive as it is free 
for 30 days.
then uninstall everything you have to in order to comply with the testing 
rules.
after the test, swap the hard drives as the new one will most likely have 
much more capacity and you could then use the original smaller drive in the 
usb enclosure for extra storage.
the new drive and enclosure will cost about $80.

Bryan Schulz
The BEST Solution
www.best-acts.com

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Angie Matney" <angie.matney at gmail.com>
To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 2:18 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied


> For those who are lucky enough to be able to use a laptop on the essays, I
> have a thought. If I am ultimately granted this accommodation, I expect 
> the
> Board will ask me to wipe my computer clean. I believe that, instead of
> gutting my computer (and then worrying that I have inadvertently left
> something on there that shouldn't be there), I am going to buy a second
> netbook for use on the bar. A netbook costs around $400. I might buy one
> just like the one I am using now. I can always sell it at a discount after
> I'm done. (Then again, I might keep it and turn it into a linux
> machine...but that''s a topic of discussion for another list.) Current
> netbooks comply with the technical requirements that Virginia has for
> laptops. Also, the batter ycan last for an entire day of testing without
> needing to be recharged.
>
> This is not exactly the cheapest solution, but I believe it's what I will 
> do
> it I need a clean computer.
>
> Angie
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b.schulz%40sbcglob
al.net 


_______________________________________________
blindlaw mailing list
blindlaw at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
blindlaw:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdborne%40gmail.co
m



From cdborne at gmail.com  Mon Jun 15 04:48:54 2009
From: cdborne at gmail.com (Craig Borne)
Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 00:48:54 -0400
Subject: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
In-Reply-To: <4a32ea72.1ac1f10a.1f2a.648a@mx.google.com>
References: <965679953DA54B9B8EBFBC94FFAE3453@bentar802wznlv><FC50B49ED94B8A45A9AA3CE6D096CAED1E773E@2K3FS1.screnci.local>
	<4a32ea72.1ac1f10a.1f2a.648a@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <003501c9ed74$96b98660$0401a8c0@computer>

Angie,

 

I used my laptop for the Maryland essay portion of the bar exam.  I was
given both the question and any abstracts on disk, and I was able to type my
answers on the computer.  I did not use any special computer software
required by the board, and my answers were printed out to submit.  I was
responsible for the laptop, disk drive (it was a floppy disk), and the
printer.

 

The MBE was read to me and my answers were oral.  I was given the name and
number of the reader prior to the exam, so I could speak with the reader
first.

 

Craig

 

 

 

Craig Borne

Baltimore, Maryland

"A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial
appearance of being right, and raises at first a formidable outcry in
defense of custom."  --Thomas Paine, Common Sense

  _____  

From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Angie Matney
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 7:53 PM
To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'
Subject: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied

 

Hello,

 

I asked for and was granted a Braille MBE and a Braille version of the ssay
questions. My request to write my answers to the essays was denied. I am
supposed to dictate them to a court reporter. The documentation I received
from the VA bar examiners is unclear as to whether or not I will first be
able to prepare my answers in Braille and then dictate them (it specifically
says I can do this for the MBE, but not the essays), or whether I have to
simply dictate my answers. I have serious concerns about my ability to
perform effectively on the exam if it is the latter. I have never taken an
essay test via dictation--I mentioned this in my accommodations request. I
explained why the process was different for the MBE and the essay portion of
the bar, but apparently my explanation was not sufficient, not understood,
or not accepted.

 

Has anyone been granted the option to use a laptop during the state-specific
portion of the Bar exam? It is my understanding that this is fairly common.

 

Virginia does have a program whereby any person taking the exam can register
to take it via laptop, but I have concerns about the accessibility of the
software they use, which disables all but some basic word-processing
functions of the computer. The software is called Exam4, and the maker is
Extegrity. Has anyone had experience with this software and a screen reader?

 

Thanks,

 

Angie

 

 

 

 

 

-------------- next part --------------
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From angie.matney at gmail.com  Mon Jun 15 05:11:10 2009
From: angie.matney at gmail.com (Angie Matney)
Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 01:11:10 -0400
Subject: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
In-Reply-To: <003501c9ed74$96b98660$0401a8c0@computer>
References: <965679953DA54B9B8EBFBC94FFAE3453@bentar802wznlv><FC50B49ED94B8A45A9AA3CE6D096CAED1E773E@2K3FS1.screnci.local>	<4a32ea72.1ac1f10a.1f2a.648a@mx.google.com>
	<003501c9ed74$96b98660$0401a8c0@computer>
Message-ID: <4a35d7ea.47c2f10a.532d.14ff@mx.google.com>

Hello craig,

 

Thanks for this info. So far, I know of six states where people have been
granted this accommodation. I am going to call the VA Board tomorrow to
discuss the situation. 

 

Angie

 

 

 

From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Craig Borne
Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 12:49 AM
To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied

 

Angie,

 

I used my laptop for the Maryland essay portion of the bar exam.  I was
given both the question and any abstracts on disk, and I was able to type my
answers on the computer.  I did not use any special computer software
required by the board, and my answers were printed out to submit.  I was
responsible for the laptop, disk drive (it was a floppy disk), and the
printer.

 

The MBE was read to me and my answers were oral.  I was given the name and
number of the reader prior to the exam, so I could speak with the reader
first.

 

Craig

 

 

 

Craig Borne

Baltimore, Maryland

"A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial
appearance of being right, and raises at first a formidable outcry in
defense of custom."  --Thomas Paine, Common Sense

  _____  

From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Angie Matney
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 7:53 PM
To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'
Subject: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied

 

Hello,

 

I asked for and was granted a Braille MBE and a Braille version of the ssay
questions. My request to write my answers to the essays was denied. I am
supposed to dictate them to a court reporter. The documentation I received
from the VA bar examiners is unclear as to whether or not I will first be
able to prepare my answers in Braille and then dictate them (it specifically
says I can do this for the MBE, but not the essays), or whether I have to
simply dictate my answers. I have serious concerns about my ability to
perform effectively on the exam if it is the latter. I have never taken an
essay test via dictation--I mentioned this in my accommodations request. I
explained why the process was different for the MBE and the essay portion of
the bar, but apparently my explanation was not sufficient, not understood,
or not accepted.

 

Has anyone been granted the option to use a laptop during the state-specific
portion of the Bar exam? It is my understanding that this is fairly common.

 

Virginia does have a program whereby any person taking the exam can register
to take it via laptop, but I have concerns about the accessibility of the
software they use, which disables all but some basic word-processing
functions of the computer. The software is called Exam4, and the maker is
Extegrity. Has anyone had experience with this software and a screen reader?

 

Thanks,

 

Angie

 

 

 

 

 

-------------- next part --------------
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From b.schulz at sbcglobal.net  Mon Jun 15 05:13:15 2009
From: b.schulz at sbcglobal.net (Bryan Schulz)
Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 00:13:15 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
References: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6BF01001@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local><BAY105-DAV3286CB50FCFD6FE77B90ABB410@phx.gbl><4a354d03.86c3f10a.0d1b.4f44@mx.google.com><8890DEF2DAEF4AC89881B5750993217B@notebook>
	<003401c9ed73$597ce8b0$0401a8c0@computer>
Message-ID: <648DEB12A4E24197B6F89FF803E84BF6@notebook>

bud,

i gave a solution to her problem that would have saved her a good $300.
she can do what ever she wants, get it solved or continue to battle the 
testing official.
if you don't like my tact or attitude, that's probably mild to the courtroom 
and you'll be shark bait for the opposition.

Bryan Schulz
The BEST Solution
www.best-acts.com

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Craig Borne" <cdborne at gmail.com>
To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 11:40 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied


> Bryan,
>
> You really need to learn a little tact.  She was looking for a work-around
> to an accommodation issue, not a tech solution to what she needed.
>
> Frankly, I am getting really tired of the non-attorney participants on 
> this
> list chiming in on law (or bar exam) issues.  Is this or is it not a list
> for blind lawyers and law related to blind related issues?  If so, why are
> the attorneys (or law students) on this list constantly assaulted with
> flaming comments that neither answer legal questions nor promote the
> practice of law with blind attorneys?  Over the past few weeks, I have
> exercised my delete key more often than in the past due to the high email
> traffic related neither to the practice of law nor to legal issues related
> to blind plaintiffs/defendants.
>
> I respectfully ask that this loosy-goosy monitoring of this list serve be
> tightened.  I am frankly tired of receiving emails containing flames from
> non-attorneys discussing non-legal topics.  It is a waste of time and an
> annoyance.  I, as a practicing attorney, am less inclined to post a query 
> to
> this list because I don't have the time or patience to deal with the 
> replies
> coming from judgmental, non-legal participants in this list.
>
> Either blind attorneys/law students have a forum on blindnet, or they do
> not.
>
> Craig
>
>
> Craig Borne
> Baltimore, Maryland
> "A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial
> appearance of being right, and raises at first a formidable outcry in
> defense of custom."  --Thomas Paine, Common Sense
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Bryan Schulz
> Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 6:51 PM
> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
>
> Hi,
>
> DUMB!
> buy another 2.5" laptop hard drive and a thin sata to usb enclosure.
> then use casper to clone your drive to the second hard drive as it is free
> for 30 days.
> then uninstall everything you have to in order to comply with the testing
> rules.
> after the test, swap the hard drives as the new one will most likely have
> much more capacity and you could then use the original smaller drive in 
> the
> usb enclosure for extra storage.
> the new drive and enclosure will cost about $80.
>
> Bryan Schulz
> The BEST Solution
> www.best-acts.com
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Angie Matney" <angie.matney at gmail.com>
> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 2:18 PM
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
>
>
>> For those who are lucky enough to be able to use a laptop on the essays, 
>> I
>> have a thought. If I am ultimately granted this accommodation, I expect
>> the
>> Board will ask me to wipe my computer clean. I believe that, instead of
>> gutting my computer (and then worrying that I have inadvertently left
>> something on there that shouldn't be there), I am going to buy a second
>> netbook for use on the bar. A netbook costs around $400. I might buy one
>> just like the one I am using now. I can always sell it at a discount 
>> after
>> I'm done. (Then again, I might keep it and turn it into a linux
>> machine...but that''s a topic of discussion for another list.) Current
>> netbooks comply with the technical requirements that Virginia has for
>> laptops. Also, the batter ycan last for an entire day of testing without
>> needing to be recharged.
>>
>> This is not exactly the cheapest solution, but I believe it's what I will
>> do
>> it I need a clean computer.
>>
>> Angie
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindlaw:
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b.schulz%40sbcglob
> al.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdborne%40gmail.co
> m
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b.schulz%40sbcglobal.net 



From cdborne at gmail.com  Mon Jun 15 05:31:04 2009
From: cdborne at gmail.com (Craig Borne)
Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 01:31:04 -0400
Subject: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
In-Reply-To: <4a35d7ea.47c2f10a.532d.14ff@mx.google.com>
References: <965679953DA54B9B8EBFBC94FFAE3453@bentar802wznlv><FC50B49ED94B8A45A9AA3CE6D096CAED1E773E@2K3FS1.screnci.local>	<4a32ea72.1ac1f10a.1f2a.648a@mx.google.com><003501c9ed74$96b98660$0401a8c0@computer>
	<4a35d7ea.47c2f10a.532d.14ff@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <004401c9ed7a$7a419080$0401a8c0@computer>

You are welcome, Angie.  Let me know if I can help.

Craig

 

Craig Borne

Baltimore, Maryland

"A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial
appearance of being right, and raises at first a formidable outcry in
defense of custom."  --Thomas Paine, Common Sense

  _____  

From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Angie Matney
Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 1:11 AM
To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied

 

Hello craig,

 

Thanks for this info. So far, I know of six states where people have been
granted this accommodation. I am going to call the VA Board tomorrow to
discuss the situation. 

 

Angie

 

 

 

From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Craig Borne
Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 12:49 AM
To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied

 

Angie,

 

I used my laptop for the Maryland essay portion of the bar exam.  I was
given both the question and any abstracts on disk, and I was able to type my
answers on the computer.  I did not use any special computer software
required by the board, and my answers were printed out to submit.  I was
responsible for the laptop, disk drive (it was a floppy disk), and the
printer.

 

The MBE was read to me and my answers were oral.  I was given the name and
number of the reader prior to the exam, so I could speak with the reader
first.

 

Craig

 

 

 

Craig Borne

Baltimore, Maryland

"A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial
appearance of being right, and raises at first a formidable outcry in
defense of custom."  --Thomas Paine, Common Sense

  _____  

From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Angie Matney
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 7:53 PM
To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'
Subject: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied

 

Hello,

 

I asked for and was granted a Braille MBE and a Braille version of the ssay
questions. My request to write my answers to the essays was denied. I am
supposed to dictate them to a court reporter. The documentation I received
from the VA bar examiners is unclear as to whether or not I will first be
able to prepare my answers in Braille and then dictate them (it specifically
says I can do this for the MBE, but not the essays), or whether I have to
simply dictate my answers. I have serious concerns about my ability to
perform effectively on the exam if it is the latter. I have never taken an
essay test via dictation--I mentioned this in my accommodations request. I
explained why the process was different for the MBE and the essay portion of
the bar, but apparently my explanation was not sufficient, not understood,
or not accepted.

 

Has anyone been granted the option to use a laptop during the state-specific
portion of the Bar exam? It is my understanding that this is fairly common.

 

Virginia does have a program whereby any person taking the exam can register
to take it via laptop, but I have concerns about the accessibility of the
software they use, which disables all but some basic word-processing
functions of the computer. The software is called Exam4, and the maker is
Extegrity. Has anyone had experience with this software and a screen reader?

 

Thanks,

 

Angie

 

 

 

 

 

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From cdborne at gmail.com  Mon Jun 15 05:59:56 2009
From: cdborne at gmail.com (Craig Borne)
Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 01:59:56 -0400
Subject: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
In-Reply-To: <648DEB12A4E24197B6F89FF803E84BF6@notebook>
References: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6BF01001@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local><BAY105-DAV3286CB50FCFD6FE77B90ABB410@phx.gbl><4a354d03.86c3f10a.0d1b.4f44@mx.google.com><8890DEF2DAEF4AC89881B5750993217B@notebook><003401c9ed73$597ce8b0$0401a8c0@computer>
	<648DEB12A4E24197B6F89FF803E84BF6@notebook>
Message-ID: <004801c9ed7e$82fb2890$0401a8c0@computer>

First of all, my name is not "Bud."

Second, your tech strategy did not take into account what she proposed to do
with the computer after its use.

Third, I appreciate your opinion as to my electronic and computer needs, but
I frankly don't see where you get off telling me what my courtroom demeanor
will or will not be.  If you stick to your expertise, you may do well.
However, telling someone that they are "dumb" for proposing a solution is
tactless at the least and arrogant at best.  I certainly hope you don't
treat your paying clients the same way you treat your "colleagues."

I have had comments with you in the past, and frankly, I don't see how you
keep clients if you address them in the same rude manner that you address
fello Federationists.  

Craig



Craig Borne
Baltimore, Maryland
"A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial
appearance of being right, and raises at first a formidable outcry in
defense of custom."  --Thomas Paine, Common Sense

-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Bryan Schulz
Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 1:13 AM
To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied

bud,

i gave a solution to her problem that would have saved her a good $300.
she can do what ever she wants, get it solved or continue to battle the 
testing official.
if you don't like my tact or attitude, that's probably mild to the courtroom

and you'll be shark bait for the opposition.

Bryan Schulz
The BEST Solution
www.best-acts.com

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Craig Borne" <cdborne at gmail.com>
To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 11:40 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied


> Bryan,
>
> You really need to learn a little tact.  She was looking for a work-around
> to an accommodation issue, not a tech solution to what she needed.
>
> Frankly, I am getting really tired of the non-attorney participants on 
> this
> list chiming in on law (or bar exam) issues.  Is this or is it not a list
> for blind lawyers and law related to blind related issues?  If so, why are
> the attorneys (or law students) on this list constantly assaulted with
> flaming comments that neither answer legal questions nor promote the
> practice of law with blind attorneys?  Over the past few weeks, I have
> exercised my delete key more often than in the past due to the high email
> traffic related neither to the practice of law nor to legal issues related
> to blind plaintiffs/defendants.
>
> I respectfully ask that this loosy-goosy monitoring of this list serve be
> tightened.  I am frankly tired of receiving emails containing flames from
> non-attorneys discussing non-legal topics.  It is a waste of time and an
> annoyance.  I, as a practicing attorney, am less inclined to post a query 
> to
> this list because I don't have the time or patience to deal with the 
> replies
> coming from judgmental, non-legal participants in this list.
>
> Either blind attorneys/law students have a forum on blindnet, or they do
> not.
>
> Craig
>
>
> Craig Borne
> Baltimore, Maryland
> "A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial
> appearance of being right, and raises at first a formidable outcry in
> defense of custom."  --Thomas Paine, Common Sense
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Bryan Schulz
> Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 6:51 PM
> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
>
> Hi,
>
> DUMB!
> buy another 2.5" laptop hard drive and a thin sata to usb enclosure.
> then use casper to clone your drive to the second hard drive as it is free
> for 30 days.
> then uninstall everything you have to in order to comply with the testing
> rules.
> after the test, swap the hard drives as the new one will most likely have
> much more capacity and you could then use the original smaller drive in 
> the
> usb enclosure for extra storage.
> the new drive and enclosure will cost about $80.
>
> Bryan Schulz
> The BEST Solution
> www.best-acts.com
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Angie Matney" <angie.matney at gmail.com>
> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 2:18 PM
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
>
>
>> For those who are lucky enough to be able to use a laptop on the essays, 
>> I
>> have a thought. If I am ultimately granted this accommodation, I expect
>> the
>> Board will ask me to wipe my computer clean. I believe that, instead of
>> gutting my computer (and then worrying that I have inadvertently left
>> something on there that shouldn't be there), I am going to buy a second
>> netbook for use on the bar. A netbook costs around $400. I might buy one
>> just like the one I am using now. I can always sell it at a discount 
>> after
>> I'm done. (Then again, I might keep it and turn it into a linux
>> machine...but that''s a topic of discussion for another list.) Current
>> netbooks comply with the technical requirements that Virginia has for
>> laptops. Also, the batter ycan last for an entire day of testing without
>> needing to be recharged.
>>
>> This is not exactly the cheapest solution, but I believe it's what I will
>> do
>> it I need a clean computer.
>>
>> Angie
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindlaw:
>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b.schulz%40sbcglob
> al.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindlaw:
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdborne%40gmail.co
> m
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b.schulz%40sbcglob
al.net 


_______________________________________________
blindlaw mailing list
blindlaw at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
blindlaw:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdborne%40gmail.co
m



From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net  Mon Jun 15 06:10:58 2009
From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net)
Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 23:10:58 -0700
Subject: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
In-Reply-To: <BAY106-DAV13B0DDDF4370A8DCAB4791A83E0@phx.gbl>
References: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6BF01001@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local><BAY105-DAV3286CB50FCFD6FE77B90ABB410@phx.gbl>	<4a354d03.86c3f10a.0d1b.4f44@mx.google.com><8890DEF2DAEF4AC89881B5750993217B@notebook><4a3589b7.86c3f10a.6ae6.03fd@mx.google.com><A21938F1ECCD47A9AF456EE103E8B437@notebook>
	<BAY106-DAV13B0DDDF4370A8DCAB4791A83E0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <C7153CBB404E4C09B757517522A62EFB@spike>

This is a definite problem for the blind using many web sites. Recently, we 
have had a thread going on about this topic on the California NFB list.
It defintely needs addressing on a large scale basis.
Chuck
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "RJ Sandefur" <rjs59 at hotmail.com>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 7:28 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied


> Bryan, What is your take on web sights such  as twitter, which use capcha? 
> Has any one with within the blindness comunity tryed contacting the 
> developers of twitter concerning the needs and concerns of the blind 
> comunity concerning this issue? RJ
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Bryan Schulz" <b.schulz at sbcglobal.net>
> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 9:56 PM
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
>
>
>> hi,
>>
>> no, i saw that idea and don't know why you would want to do things the 
>> hard way or different/use software probably not used by colleagues or 
>> others in your field.
>>
>> Bryan Schulz
>> The BEST Solution
>> www.best-acts.com
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Angie Matney" <angie.matney at gmail.com>
>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 6:37 PM
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
>>
>>
>>> Uhm, did you miss the part about wanting a linux machine? (grin)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] 
>>> On
>>> Behalf Of Bryan Schulz
>>> Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 6:51 PM
>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> DUMB!
>>> buy another 2.5" laptop hard drive and a thin sata to usb enclosure.
>>> then use casper to clone your drive to the second hard drive as it is 
>>> free
>>> for 30 days.
>>> then uninstall everything you have to in order to comply with the 
>>> testing
>>> rules.
>>> after the test, swap the hard drives as the new one will most likely 
>>> have
>>> much more capacity and you could then use the original smaller drive in 
>>> the
>>> usb enclosure for extra storage.
>>> the new drive and enclosure will cost about $80.
>>>
>>> Bryan Schulz
>>> The BEST Solution
>>> www.best-acts.com
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: "Angie Matney" <angie.matney at gmail.com>
>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 2:18 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
>>>
>>>
>>>> For those who are lucky enough to be able to use a laptop on the 
>>>> essays, I
>>>> have a thought. If I am ultimately granted this accommodation, I expect
>>>> the
>>>> Board will ask me to wipe my computer clean. I believe that, instead of
>>>> gutting my computer (and then worrying that I have inadvertently left
>>>> something on there that shouldn't be there), I am going to buy a second
>>>> netbook for use on the bar. A netbook costs around $400. I might buy 
>>>> one
>>>> just like the one I am using now. I can always sell it at a discount 
>>>> after
>>>> I'm done. (Then again, I might keep it and turn it into a linux
>>>> machine...but that''s a topic of discussion for another list.) Current
>>>> netbooks comply with the technical requirements that Virginia has for
>>>> laptops. Also, the batter ycan last for an entire day of testing 
>>>> without
>>>> needing to be recharged.
>>>>
>>>> This is not exactly the cheapest solution, but I believe it's what I 
>>>> will
>>>> do
>>>> it I need a clean computer.
>>>>
>>>> Angie
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b.schulz%40sbcglob
>>> al.net
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> blindlaw:
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie.matney%40gma
>>> il.com
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>>> blindlaw:
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b.schulz%40sbcglobal.net
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> blindlaw:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rjs59%40hotmail.com
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net 



From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net  Mon Jun 15 06:12:56 2009
From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net)
Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 23:12:56 -0700
Subject: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
In-Reply-To: <B47E9B4F3861487EADA74CAA9C895E06@notebook>
References: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6BF01001@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local><BAY105-DAV3286CB50FCFD6FE77B90ABB410@phx.gbl>	<4a354d03.86c3f10a.0d1b.4f44@mx.google.com><8890DEF2DAEF4AC89881B5750993217B@notebook><4a3589b7.86c3f10a.6ae6.03fd@mx.google.com><A21938F1ECCD47A9AF456EE103E8B437@notebook><BAY106-DAV13B0DDDF4370A8DCAB4791A83E0@phx.gbl>
	<B47E9B4F3861487EADA74CAA9C895E06@notebook>
Message-ID: <3A3025C86BFA4144B3B706FE30A0444E@spike>

The feature for Firefox Web Visum is very confusing to use as instructions 
are not defined in a concise readily available manner. I have used the 
feature at times and it has not always bween satisfactory. I have pretty 
much given up on it. Some times it worked, some times it didn't and it 
wasn't all that user friendly for occasional use.
Chuck
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Bryan Schulz" <b.schulz at sbcglobal.net>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 7:39 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied


> hi,
>
> i don't get the big idea about all these social sites but
> a good work around for us is to use firefox and the captia buster plugin.
>
> Bryan Schulz
> The BEST Solution
> www.best-acts.com
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "RJ Sandefur" <rjs59 at hotmail.com>
> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 9:28 PM
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
>
>
>> Bryan, What is your take on web sights such  as twitter, which use 
>> capcha? Has any one with within the blindness comunity tryed contacting 
>> the developers of twitter concerning the needs and concerns of the blind 
>> comunity concerning this issue? RJ
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Bryan Schulz" <b.schulz at sbcglobal.net>
>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 9:56 PM
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
>>
>>
>>> hi,
>>>
>>> no, i saw that idea and don't know why you would want to do things the 
>>> hard way or different/use software probably not used by colleagues or 
>>> others in your field.
>>>
>>> Bryan Schulz
>>> The BEST Solution
>>> www.best-acts.com
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: "Angie Matney" <angie.matney at gmail.com>
>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 6:37 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
>>>
>>>
>>>> Uhm, did you miss the part about wanting a linux machine? (grin)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] 
>>>> On
>>>> Behalf Of Bryan Schulz
>>>> Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 6:51 PM
>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
>>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> DUMB!
>>>> buy another 2.5" laptop hard drive and a thin sata to usb enclosure.
>>>> then use casper to clone your drive to the second hard drive as it is 
>>>> free
>>>> for 30 days.
>>>> then uninstall everything you have to in order to comply with the 
>>>> testing
>>>> rules.
>>>> after the test, swap the hard drives as the new one will most likely 
>>>> have
>>>> much more capacity and you could then use the original smaller drive in 
>>>> the
>>>> usb enclosure for extra storage.
>>>> the new drive and enclosure will cost about $80.
>>>>
>>>> Bryan Schulz
>>>> The BEST Solution
>>>> www.best-acts.com
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>> From: "Angie Matney" <angie.matney at gmail.com>
>>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 2:18 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> For those who are lucky enough to be able to use a laptop on the 
>>>>> essays, I
>>>>> have a thought. If I am ultimately granted this accommodation, I 
>>>>> expect
>>>>> the
>>>>> Board will ask me to wipe my computer clean. I believe that, instead 
>>>>> of
>>>>> gutting my computer (and then worrying that I have inadvertently left
>>>>> something on there that shouldn't be there), I am going to buy a 
>>>>> second
>>>>> netbook for use on the bar. A netbook costs around $400. I might buy 
>>>>> one
>>>>> just like the one I am using now. I can always sell it at a discount 
>>>>> after
>>>>> I'm done. (Then again, I might keep it and turn it into a linux
>>>>> machine...but that''s a topic of discussion for another list.) Current
>>>>> netbooks comply with the technical requirements that Virginia has for
>>>>> laptops. Also, the batter ycan last for an entire day of testing 
>>>>> without
>>>>> needing to be recharged.
>>>>>
>>>>> This is not exactly the cheapest solution, but I believe it's what I 
>>>>> will
>>>>> do
>>>>> it I need a clean computer.
>>>>>
>>>>> Angie
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b.schulz%40sbcglob
>>>> al.net
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> blindlaw:
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie.matney%40gma
>>>> il.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>>>> blindlaw:
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b.schulz%40sbcglobal.net
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>>> blindlaw:
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rjs59%40hotmail.com
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> blindlaw:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b.schulz%40sbcglobal.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net 



From angie.matney at gmail.com  Mon Jun 15 06:14:31 2009
From: angie.matney at gmail.com (Angie Matney)
Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 02:14:31 -0400
Subject: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
In-Reply-To: <6C964A8115B9485DB4FDF54D0AF5E42C@notebook>
References: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6BF01001@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local><BAY105-DAV3286CB50FCFD6FE77B90ABB410@phx.gbl>	<4a354d03.86c3f10a.0d1b.4f44@mx.google.com><8890DEF2DAEF4AC89881B5750993217B@notebook>	<4a358b99.1ac1f10a.0ed9.4fff@mx.google.com>
	<6C964A8115B9485DB4FDF54D0AF5E42C@notebook>
Message-ID: <4a35e6c2.04c2f10a.033c.ffffab5c@mx.google.com>

I don't think I said anything about wanting a cheap solution. I want to have
the use of my computer in its current configuration in the days leading up
to the bar and during the five evenings or so that I will be staying in a
hotel while taking the Bar. (I also want an excuse to buy a machine to put
linux on.)

All of this will of course be moot if 1) VA says I cannot use a laptop, or
2) the software they use is actually accessible, or 3) they don't require me
to clean off the hard drive (this last is EXTREMELY unlikely, given the
language of the agreement that was sent to me). In any of these cases, I
will just have to wait for another opportunity to get my linux machine.

Angie

-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Bryan Schulz
Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 10:01 PM
To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied

hi,

i guess a one word opinion to you is long winded rude high school banter.
it sounded like you wanted a cheap solution and i offered one.

Bryan Schulz
The BEST Solution
www.best-acts.com

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Angie Matney" <angie.matney at gmail.com>
To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 6:45 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied


> Also, using my strategy will enable me to take my fully operational 
> computer
> with me for use in the evenings. I fully admit this is not the cheapest 
> way
> to go, but there is no call for you to be rude about it. Simply don't do 
> as
> I have suggested. Post your own ideas and refrain from junior-high-school
> dialogue.
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Bryan Schulz
> Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 6:51 PM
> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
>
> Hi,
>
> DUMB!
> buy another 2.5" laptop hard drive and a thin sata to usb enclosure.
> then use casper to clone your drive to the second hard drive as it is free
> for 30 days.
> then uninstall everything you have to in order to comply with the testing
> rules.
> after the test, swap the hard drives as the new one will most likely have
> much more capacity and you could then use the original smaller drive in 
> the
> usb enclosure for extra storage.
> the new drive and enclosure will cost about $80.
>
> Bryan Schulz
> The BEST Solution
> www.best-acts.com
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Angie Matney" <angie.matney at gmail.com>
> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 2:18 PM
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
>
>
>> For those who are lucky enough to be able to use a laptop on the essays, 
>> I
>> have a thought. If I am ultimately granted this accommodation, I expect
>> the
>> Board will ask me to wipe my computer clean. I believe that, instead of
>> gutting my computer (and then worrying that I have inadvertently left
>> something on there that shouldn't be there), I am going to buy a second
>> netbook for use on the bar. A netbook costs around $400. I might buy one
>> just like the one I am using now. I can always sell it at a discount 
>> after
>> I'm done. (Then again, I might keep it and turn it into a linux
>> machine...but that''s a topic of discussion for another list.) Current
>> netbooks comply with the technical requirements that Virginia has for
>> laptops. Also, the batter ycan last for an entire day of testing without
>> needing to be recharged.
>>
>> This is not exactly the cheapest solution, but I believe it's what I will
>> do
>> it I need a clean computer.
>>
>> Angie
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindlaw:
>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b.schulz%40sbcglob
> al.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindlaw:
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie.matney%40gma
> il.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b.schulz%40sbcglob
al.net 


_______________________________________________
blindlaw mailing list
blindlaw at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
blindlaw:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie.matney%40gma
il.com



From b.schulz at sbcglobal.net  Mon Jun 15 06:29:47 2009
From: b.schulz at sbcglobal.net (Bryan Schulz)
Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 01:29:47 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
References: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6BF01001@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local><BAY105-DAV3286CB50FCFD6FE77B90ABB410@phx.gbl><4a354d03.86c3f10a.0d1b.4f44@mx.google.com><8890DEF2DAEF4AC89881B5750993217B@notebook><003401c9ed73$597ce8b0$0401a8c0@computer><648DEB12A4E24197B6F89FF803E84BF6@notebook>
	<004801c9ed7e$82fb2890$0401a8c0@computer>
Message-ID: <CC352DD9A7374E5BA8102F5D397452E7@notebook>

ok i guess it's the borne supremacy

sorry to continue this useless post.
i don't claim to know law and don't know you so i don't know how i am 
considered your colleague.
obviously you are one of the people that think your way is the only way
you obviously can't tell the difference of saying someone is dumb or a 
concept is thought of as dumb
i am always professional when dealing with clients or an agency and i don't 
feel it necessary to always type as if i'm wearing a suit but feel free to 
pull that tie a couple inches tighter.
realize that people offer opinions and hit delete if you don't like it.

Bryan Schulz
The BEST Solution
www.best-acts.com

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Craig Borne" <cdborne at gmail.com>
To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 12:59 AM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied


> First of all, my name is not "Bud."
>
> Second, your tech strategy did not take into account what she proposed to 
> do
> with the computer after its use.
>
> Third, I appreciate your opinion as to my electronic and computer needs, 
> but
> I frankly don't see where you get off telling me what my courtroom 
> demeanor
> will or will not be.  If you stick to your expertise, you may do well.
> However, telling someone that they are "dumb" for proposing a solution is
> tactless at the least and arrogant at best.  I certainly hope you don't
> treat your paying clients the same way you treat your "colleagues."
>
> I have had comments with you in the past, and frankly, I don't see how you
> keep clients if you address them in the same rude manner that you address
> fello Federationists.
>
> Craig
>
>
>
> Craig Borne
> Baltimore, Maryland
> "A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial
> appearance of being right, and raises at first a formidable outcry in
> defense of custom."  --Thomas Paine, Common Sense
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Bryan Schulz
> Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 1:13 AM
> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
>
> bud,
>
> i gave a solution to her problem that would have saved her a good $300.
> she can do what ever she wants, get it solved or continue to battle the
> testing official.
> if you don't like my tact or attitude, that's probably mild to the 
> courtroom
>
> and you'll be shark bait for the opposition.
>
> Bryan Schulz
> The BEST Solution
> www.best-acts.com
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Craig Borne" <cdborne at gmail.com>
> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 11:40 PM
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
>
>
>> Bryan,
>>
>> You really need to learn a little tact.  She was looking for a 
>> work-around
>> to an accommodation issue, not a tech solution to what she needed.
>>
>> Frankly, I am getting really tired of the non-attorney participants on
>> this
>> list chiming in on law (or bar exam) issues.  Is this or is it not a list
>> for blind lawyers and law related to blind related issues?  If so, why 
>> are
>> the attorneys (or law students) on this list constantly assaulted with
>> flaming comments that neither answer legal questions nor promote the
>> practice of law with blind attorneys?  Over the past few weeks, I have
>> exercised my delete key more often than in the past due to the high email
>> traffic related neither to the practice of law nor to legal issues 
>> related
>> to blind plaintiffs/defendants.
>>
>> I respectfully ask that this loosy-goosy monitoring of this list serve be
>> tightened.  I am frankly tired of receiving emails containing flames from
>> non-attorneys discussing non-legal topics.  It is a waste of time and an
>> annoyance.  I, as a practicing attorney, am less inclined to post a query
>> to
>> this list because I don't have the time or patience to deal with the
>> replies
>> coming from judgmental, non-legal participants in this list.
>>
>> Either blind attorneys/law students have a forum on blindnet, or they do
>> not.
>>
>> Craig
>>
>>
>> Craig Borne
>> Baltimore, Maryland
>> "A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial
>> appearance of being right, and raises at first a formidable outcry in
>> defense of custom."  --Thomas Paine, Common Sense
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf Of Bryan Schulz
>> Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 6:51 PM
>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> DUMB!
>> buy another 2.5" laptop hard drive and a thin sata to usb enclosure.
>> then use casper to clone your drive to the second hard drive as it is 
>> free
>> for 30 days.
>> then uninstall everything you have to in order to comply with the testing
>> rules.
>> after the test, swap the hard drives as the new one will most likely have
>> much more capacity and you could then use the original smaller drive in
>> the
>> usb enclosure for extra storage.
>> the new drive and enclosure will cost about $80.
>>
>> Bryan Schulz
>> The BEST Solution
>> www.best-acts.com
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Angie Matney" <angie.matney at gmail.com>
>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 2:18 PM
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
>>
>>
>>> For those who are lucky enough to be able to use a laptop on the essays,
>>> I
>>> have a thought. If I am ultimately granted this accommodation, I expect
>>> the
>>> Board will ask me to wipe my computer clean. I believe that, instead of
>>> gutting my computer (and then worrying that I have inadvertently left
>>> something on there that shouldn't be there), I am going to buy a second
>>> netbook for use on the bar. A netbook costs around $400. I might buy one
>>> just like the one I am using now. I can always sell it at a discount
>>> after
>>> I'm done. (Then again, I might keep it and turn it into a linux
>>> machine...but that''s a topic of discussion for another list.) Current
>>> netbooks comply with the technical requirements that Virginia has for
>>> laptops. Also, the batter ycan last for an entire day of testing without
>>> needing to be recharged.
>>>
>>> This is not exactly the cheapest solution, but I believe it's what I 
>>> will
>>> do
>>> it I need a clean computer.
>>>
>>> Angie
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> blindlaw:
>>>
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b.schulz%40sbcglob
>> al.net
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindlaw:
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdborne%40gmail.co
>> m
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindlaw:
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b.schulz%40sbcglob
> al.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdborne%40gmail.co
> m
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b.schulz%40sbcglobal.net 



From b.schulz at sbcglobal.net  Mon Jun 15 06:33:53 2009
From: b.schulz at sbcglobal.net (Bryan Schulz)
Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 01:33:53 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
References: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6BF01001@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local><BAY105-DAV3286CB50FCFD6FE77B90ABB410@phx.gbl>	<4a354d03.86c3f10a.0d1b.4f44@mx.google.com><8890DEF2DAEF4AC89881B5750993217B@notebook><4a3589b7.86c3f10a.6ae6.03fd@mx.google.com><A21938F1ECCD47A9AF456EE103E8B437@notebook><BAY106-DAV13B0DDDF4370A8DCAB4791A83E0@phx.gbl><B47E9B4F3861487EADA74CAA9C895E06@notebook>
	<3A3025C86BFA4144B3B706FE30A0444E@spike>
Message-ID: <C5934F4D7200474FB4FCA5AFC54A4B61@notebook>

hi,

this of course is meant for another list but i have been able to hit 
alt+control+6 and i have had a password generated for pasting 100% of the 
time but i haven't had the need to use it on those social blog sites.

Bryan Schulz
The BEST Solution
www.best-acts.com

----- Original Message ----- 
From: <ckrugman at sbcglobal.net>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 1:12 AM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied


> The feature for Firefox Web Visum is very confusing to use as instructions 
> are not defined in a concise readily available manner. I have used the 
> feature at times and it has not always bween satisfactory. I have pretty 
> much given up on it. Some times it worked, some times it didn't and it 
> wasn't all that user friendly for occasional use.
> Chuck
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Bryan Schulz" <b.schulz at sbcglobal.net>
> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 7:39 PM
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
>
>
>> hi,
>>
>> i don't get the big idea about all these social sites but
>> a good work around for us is to use firefox and the captia buster plugin.
>>
>> Bryan Schulz
>> The BEST Solution
>> www.best-acts.com
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "RJ Sandefur" <rjs59 at hotmail.com>
>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 9:28 PM
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
>>
>>
>>> Bryan, What is your take on web sights such  as twitter, which use 
>>> capcha? Has any one with within the blindness comunity tryed contacting 
>>> the developers of twitter concerning the needs and concerns of the blind 
>>> comunity concerning this issue? RJ
>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: "Bryan Schulz" <b.schulz at sbcglobal.net>
>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 9:56 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
>>>
>>>
>>>> hi,
>>>>
>>>> no, i saw that idea and don't know why you would want to do things the 
>>>> hard way or different/use software probably not used by colleagues or 
>>>> others in your field.
>>>>
>>>> Bryan Schulz
>>>> The BEST Solution
>>>> www.best-acts.com
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>> From: "Angie Matney" <angie.matney at gmail.com>
>>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 6:37 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Uhm, did you miss the part about wanting a linux machine? (grin)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] 
>>>>> On
>>>>> Behalf Of Bryan Schulz
>>>>> Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 6:51 PM
>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>
>>>>> DUMB!
>>>>> buy another 2.5" laptop hard drive and a thin sata to usb enclosure.
>>>>> then use casper to clone your drive to the second hard drive as it is 
>>>>> free
>>>>> for 30 days.
>>>>> then uninstall everything you have to in order to comply with the 
>>>>> testing
>>>>> rules.
>>>>> after the test, swap the hard drives as the new one will most likely 
>>>>> have
>>>>> much more capacity and you could then use the original smaller drive 
>>>>> in the
>>>>> usb enclosure for extra storage.
>>>>> the new drive and enclosure will cost about $80.
>>>>>
>>>>> Bryan Schulz
>>>>> The BEST Solution
>>>>> www.best-acts.com
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>> From: "Angie Matney" <angie.matney at gmail.com>
>>>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 2:18 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> For those who are lucky enough to be able to use a laptop on the 
>>>>>> essays, I
>>>>>> have a thought. If I am ultimately granted this accommodation, I 
>>>>>> expect
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> Board will ask me to wipe my computer clean. I believe that, instead 
>>>>>> of
>>>>>> gutting my computer (and then worrying that I have inadvertently left
>>>>>> something on there that shouldn't be there), I am going to buy a 
>>>>>> second
>>>>>> netbook for use on the bar. A netbook costs around $400. I might buy 
>>>>>> one
>>>>>> just like the one I am using now. I can always sell it at a discount 
>>>>>> after
>>>>>> I'm done. (Then again, I might keep it and turn it into a linux
>>>>>> machine...but that''s a topic of discussion for another list.) 
>>>>>> Current
>>>>>> netbooks comply with the technical requirements that Virginia has for
>>>>>> laptops. Also, the batter ycan last for an entire day of testing 
>>>>>> without
>>>>>> needing to be recharged.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This is not exactly the cheapest solution, but I believe it's what I 
>>>>>> will
>>>>>> do
>>>>>> it I need a clean computer.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Angie
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b.schulz%40sbcglob
>>>>> al.net
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie.matney%40gma
>>>>> il.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b.schulz%40sbcglobal.net
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>>>> blindlaw:
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rjs59%40hotmail.com
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>>> blindlaw:
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b.schulz%40sbcglobal.net
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> blindlaw:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b.schulz%40sbcglobal.net 



From mhanson at winternet.com  Mon Jun 15 08:51:24 2009
From: mhanson at winternet.com (Michael O. Hanson)
Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 03:51:24 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
References: <965679953DA54B9B8EBFBC94FFAE3453@bentar802wznlv><FC50B49ED94B8A45A9AA3CE6D096CAED1E773E@2K3FS1.screnci.local>	<4a32ea72.1ac1f10a.1f2a.648a@mx.google.com><003501c9ed74$96b98660$0401a8c0@computer>
	<4a35d7ea.47c2f10a.532d.14ff@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <94A55A87D15E43C38E622EFC3A1D4615@hp048378e4c43a>

I was allowed to use a laptop when I took the bar exam in Minnesota.  I used 
it for esay questions.  I used a reader to take the MBE.


Mike Hanson
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Angie Matney" <angie.matney at gmail.com>
To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 12:11 AM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied


> Hello craig,
>
>
>
> Thanks for this info. So far, I know of six states where people have been
> granted this accommodation. I am going to call the VA Board tomorrow to
> discuss the situation.
>
>
>
> Angie
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Craig Borne
> Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 12:49 AM
> To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
>
>
>
> Angie,
>
>
>
> I used my laptop for the Maryland essay portion of the bar exam.  I was
> given both the question and any abstracts on disk, and I was able to type 
> my
> answers on the computer.  I did not use any special computer software
> required by the board, and my answers were printed out to submit.  I was
> responsible for the laptop, disk drive (it was a floppy disk), and the
> printer.
>
>
>
> The MBE was read to me and my answers were oral.  I was given the name and
> number of the reader prior to the exam, so I could speak with the reader
> first.
>
>
>
> Craig
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Craig Borne
>
> Baltimore, Maryland
>
> "A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial
> appearance of being right, and raises at first a formidable outcry in
> defense of custom."  --Thomas Paine, Common Sense
>
>  _____
>
> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Angie Matney
> Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 7:53 PM
> To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'
> Subject: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
>
>
>
> Hello,
>
>
>
> I asked for and was granted a Braille MBE and a Braille version of the 
> ssay
> questions. My request to write my answers to the essays was denied. I am
> supposed to dictate them to a court reporter. The documentation I received
> from the VA bar examiners is unclear as to whether or not I will first be
> able to prepare my answers in Braille and then dictate them (it 
> specifically
> says I can do this for the MBE, but not the essays), or whether I have to
> simply dictate my answers. I have serious concerns about my ability to
> perform effectively on the exam if it is the latter. I have never taken an
> essay test via dictation--I mentioned this in my accommodations request. I
> explained why the process was different for the MBE and the essay portion 
> of
> the bar, but apparently my explanation was not sufficient, not understood,
> or not accepted.
>
>
>
> Has anyone been granted the option to use a laptop during the 
> state-specific
> portion of the Bar exam? It is my understanding that this is fairly 
> common.
>
>
>
> Virginia does have a program whereby any person taking the exam can 
> register
> to take it via laptop, but I have concerns about the accessibility of the
> software they use, which disables all but some basic word-processing
> functions of the computer. The software is called Exam4, and the maker is
> Extegrity. Has anyone had experience with this software and a screen 
> reader?
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
>
>
> Angie
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mhanson%40winternet.com
> 




From rjaquiss at earthlink.net  Mon Jun 15 12:03:33 2009
From: rjaquiss at earthlink.net (Robert Jaquiss)
Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 07:03:33 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] California Trying E-books in high school
Message-ID: <C41B91C8F59E41198D0CF10051401FC0@D3DTZP41>

Hello LIst:

     I saw an article mentioning that California is going to roll out E-books for high school. Doing some research, I found a "fact sheet" on the governor's page. The link to it is below.

http://gov.ca.gov/index.php?/fact-sheet/12455/

Regards,

Robert Jaquiss

From angie.matney at gmail.com  Mon Jun 15 14:33:33 2009
From: angie.matney at gmail.com (Angie Matney)
Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 10:33:33 -0400
Subject: [blindlaw] Update on essay situation
Message-ID: <4a365bba.03015a0a.2f47.005c@mx.google.com>

Hello everyone,

 

I had a very positive conversation with someone in the Board's office this
morning. I don't have a final answer yet, but this person was very willing
to listen to my concerns and the alternatives I proposed. Hopefully, I will
be able to give you all a very positive update in the near future.

 

Thanks to all of you who related your bar-exam experiences.

 

Angie

 

 


From roddj12 at hotmail.com  Mon Jun 15 14:46:27 2009
From: roddj12 at hotmail.com (Rod Alcidonis)
Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 10:46:27 -0400
Subject: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
References: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6BF01001@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local><BAY105-DAV3286CB50FCFD6FE77B90ABB410@phx.gbl><4a354d03.86c3f10a.0d1b.4f44@mx.google.com><8890DEF2DAEF4AC89881B5750993217B@notebook>
	<003401c9ed73$597ce8b0$0401a8c0@computer>
Message-ID: <BAY105-DAV32F01823D9B696961F629BB3E0@phx.gbl>

Craig:

Good comments. There was a time when there was talk for the list to remain 
only for blind attorneys, and I opposed it. Granted, I was not a law student 
then, but I now see why this would have been the best idea. There is a music 
production listserv called Midimag, it is so well monitored that there 
aren't any posts that is not music related. Folks usually don't get to post 
more than one off message on the list.

Rod Alcidonis, J.D.
C. 718-704-4651
roddj12 at hotmail.com

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Craig Borne" <cdborne at gmail.com>
To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 12:40 AM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied


> Bryan,
>
> You really need to learn a little tact.  She was looking for a work-around
> to an accommodation issue, not a tech solution to what she needed.
>
> Frankly, I am getting really tired of the non-attorney participants on 
> this
> list chiming in on law (or bar exam) issues.  Is this or is it not a list
> for blind lawyers and law related to blind related issues?  If so, why are
> the attorneys (or law students) on this list constantly assaulted with
> flaming comments that neither answer legal questions nor promote the
> practice of law with blind attorneys?  Over the past few weeks, I have
> exercised my delete key more often than in the past due to the high email
> traffic related neither to the practice of law nor to legal issues related
> to blind plaintiffs/defendants.
>
> I respectfully ask that this loosy-goosy monitoring of this list serve be
> tightened.  I am frankly tired of receiving emails containing flames from
> non-attorneys discussing non-legal topics.  It is a waste of time and an
> annoyance.  I, as a practicing attorney, am less inclined to post a query 
> to
> this list because I don't have the time or patience to deal with the 
> replies
> coming from judgmental, non-legal participants in this list.
>
> Either blind attorneys/law students have a forum on blindnet, or they do
> not.
>
> Craig
>
>
> Craig Borne
> Baltimore, Maryland
> "A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial
> appearance of being right, and raises at first a formidable outcry in
> defense of custom."  --Thomas Paine, Common Sense
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Bryan Schulz
> Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 6:51 PM
> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
>
> Hi,
>
> DUMB!
> buy another 2.5" laptop hard drive and a thin sata to usb enclosure.
> then use casper to clone your drive to the second hard drive as it is free
> for 30 days.
> then uninstall everything you have to in order to comply with the testing
> rules.
> after the test, swap the hard drives as the new one will most likely have
> much more capacity and you could then use the original smaller drive in 
> the
> usb enclosure for extra storage.
> the new drive and enclosure will cost about $80.
>
> Bryan Schulz
> The BEST Solution
> www.best-acts.com
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Angie Matney" <angie.matney at gmail.com>
> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 2:18 PM
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
>
>
>> For those who are lucky enough to be able to use a laptop on the essays, 
>> I
>> have a thought. If I am ultimately granted this accommodation, I expect
>> the
>> Board will ask me to wipe my computer clean. I believe that, instead of
>> gutting my computer (and then worrying that I have inadvertently left
>> something on there that shouldn't be there), I am going to buy a second
>> netbook for use on the bar. A netbook costs around $400. I might buy one
>> just like the one I am using now. I can always sell it at a discount 
>> after
>> I'm done. (Then again, I might keep it and turn it into a linux
>> machine...but that''s a topic of discussion for another list.) Current
>> netbooks comply with the technical requirements that Virginia has for
>> laptops. Also, the batter ycan last for an entire day of testing without
>> needing to be recharged.
>>
>> This is not exactly the cheapest solution, but I believe it's what I will
>> do
>> it I need a clean computer.
>>
>> Angie
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindlaw:
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b.schulz%40sbcglob
> al.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdborne%40gmail.co
> m
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail.com
> 



From roddj12 at hotmail.com  Mon Jun 15 15:46:59 2009
From: roddj12 at hotmail.com (Rod Alcidonis)
Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 11:46:59 -0400
Subject: [blindlaw] Update on essay situation
References: <4a365bba.03015a0a.2f47.005c@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <BAY105-DAV1102E9A7F59BB46DC39F65BB3E0@phx.gbl>

Good job, Angie.
I am glad that it is working out.

Rod Alcidonis, J.D.
C. 718-704-4651
roddj12 at hotmail.com

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Angie Matney" <angie.matney at gmail.com>
To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 10:33 AM
Subject: [blindlaw] Update on essay situation


> Hello everyone,
>
>
>
> I had a very positive conversation with someone in the Board's office this
> morning. I don't have a final answer yet, but this person was very willing
> to listen to my concerns and the alternatives I proposed. Hopefully, I 
> will
> be able to give you all a very positive update in the near future.
>
>
>
> Thanks to all of you who related your bar-exam experiences.
>
>
>
> Angie
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail.com
> 



From shermeen.k at gmail.com  Mon Jun 15 16:15:02 2009
From: shermeen.k at gmail.com (Shermeen Khan)
Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 12:15:02 -0400
Subject: [blindlaw] introduction and a few questions
Message-ID: <8250ec310906150915q4569f84ejb254d23413571288@mail.gmail.com>

Hi everyone,
My name is Shermeen, and I am a Canadian university student hoping to
go to law school for September of 2010. I am scheduled to write the
LSAT this upcoming September, and just had a few questions that I hope
are best suited to this list (I didn't see a list for law school
applicants specifically).
As I am preparing for the LSAT, I am encountering some issues with
logic games. I have purchased the powerscore Bible trilogy from
powerscore.com, but am concerned about the visual representations and
diagrams used to teach people how to set up and solve logic games. I
am wondering if I should take a prep course (such as Caplyn or Oxford
seminar), but am likewise concerned that they, too, will be teaching
us how to solve logic games diagramatically. Also, I doubt I'd have
access to diagram-creating materials on the day of the test. I'm
wondering what prep materials/courses you have found helpful, and
which most effectively explain how to go about dealing with logic
games to a person who is blind.
I apologize in advance if this list isn't the appropriate place to
post this, and look forward to reading your replies. Also, if you have
any further questions, please don't hesitate to ask.
Thanks again,
-Shermeen


From lists at zufelt.ca  Mon Jun 15 17:28:00 2009
From: lists at zufelt.ca (E.J. Zufelt)
Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 13:28:00 -0400
Subject: [blindlaw] About blindlaw,
	was Request for laptop during essay section denied
In-Reply-To: <BAY105-DAV32F01823D9B696961F629BB3E0@phx.gbl>
References: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6BF01001@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local><BAY105-DAV3286CB50FCFD6FE77B90ABB410@phx.gbl><4a354d03.86c3f10a.0d1b.4f44@mx.google.com><8890DEF2DAEF4AC89881B5750993217B@notebook>
	<003401c9ed73$597ce8b0$0401a8c0@computer>
	<BAY105-DAV32F01823D9B696961F629BB3E0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <8A243E22-60A1-4FE1-A617-013133B39155@zufelt.ca>

Good afternoon,

Perhaps people would benefit from a second list for law professionals  
only?

About blindlaw:

The purpose of Blind Law is for the discussion of legal matters and  
topics directly related to blind people and their blindness. This  
discussion area will
be directly monitored by members of the National Association of Blind  
Lawyers, a division of the National Federation of the Blind.

This area is also intended as a means for the members of the
National Association of Blind Lawyers to stay in contact with each  
other.

HTH,
Everett


On 15-Jun-09, at 10:46 AM, Rod Alcidonis wrote:

> Craig:
>
> Good comments. There was a time when there was talk for the list to  
> remain only for blind attorneys, and I opposed it. Granted, I was  
> not a law student then, but I now see why this would have been the  
> best idea. There is a music production listserv called Midimag, it  
> is so well monitored that there aren't any posts that is not music  
> related. Folks usually don't get to post more than one off message  
> on the list.
>
> Rod Alcidonis, J.D.
> C. 718-704-4651
> roddj12 at hotmail.com
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Craig Borne" <cdborne at gmail.com>
> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 12:40 AM
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
>
>
>> Bryan,
>>
>> You really need to learn a little tact.  She was looking for a work- 
>> around
>> to an accommodation issue, not a tech solution to what she needed.
>>
>> Frankly, I am getting really tired of the non-attorney participants  
>> on this
>> list chiming in on law (or bar exam) issues.  Is this or is it not  
>> a list
>> for blind lawyers and law related to blind related issues?  If so,  
>> why are
>> the attorneys (or law students) on this list constantly assaulted  
>> with
>> flaming comments that neither answer legal questions nor promote the
>> practice of law with blind attorneys?  Over the past few weeks, I  
>> have
>> exercised my delete key more often than in the past due to the high  
>> email
>> traffic related neither to the practice of law nor to legal issues  
>> related
>> to blind plaintiffs/defendants.
>>
>> I respectfully ask that this loosy-goosy monitoring of this list  
>> serve be
>> tightened.  I am frankly tired of receiving emails containing  
>> flames from
>> non-attorneys discussing non-legal topics.  It is a waste of time  
>> and an
>> annoyance.  I, as a practicing attorney, am less inclined to post a  
>> query to
>> this list because I don't have the time or patience to deal with  
>> the replies
>> coming from judgmental, non-legal participants in this list.
>>
>> Either blind attorneys/law students have a forum on blindnet, or  
>> they do
>> not.
>>
>> Craig
>>
>>
>> Craig Borne
>> Baltimore, Maryland
>> "A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial
>> appearance of being right, and raises at first a formidable outcry in
>> defense of custom."  --Thomas Paine, Common Sense
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw- 
>> bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf Of Bryan Schulz
>> Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 6:51 PM
>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section  
>> denied
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> DUMB!
>> buy another 2.5" laptop hard drive and a thin sata to usb enclosure.
>> then use casper to clone your drive to the second hard drive as it  
>> is free
>> for 30 days.
>> then uninstall everything you have to in order to comply with the  
>> testing
>> rules.
>> after the test, swap the hard drives as the new one will most  
>> likely have
>> much more capacity and you could then use the original smaller  
>> drive in the
>> usb enclosure for extra storage.
>> the new drive and enclosure will cost about $80.
>>
>> Bryan Schulz
>> The BEST Solution
>> www.best-acts.com
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Angie Matney" <angie.matney at gmail.com 
>> >
>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 2:18 PM
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section  
>> denied
>>
>>
>>> For those who are lucky enough to be able to use a laptop on the  
>>> essays, I
>>> have a thought. If I am ultimately granted this accommodation, I  
>>> expect
>>> the
>>> Board will ask me to wipe my computer clean. I believe that,  
>>> instead of
>>> gutting my computer (and then worrying that I have inadvertently  
>>> left
>>> something on there that shouldn't be there), I am going to buy a  
>>> second
>>> netbook for use on the bar. A netbook costs around $400. I might  
>>> buy one
>>> just like the one I am using now. I can always sell it at a  
>>> discount after
>>> I'm done. (Then again, I might keep it and turn it into a linux
>>> machine...but that''s a topic of discussion for another list.)  
>>> Current
>>> netbooks comply with the technical requirements that Virginia has  
>>> for
>>> laptops. Also, the batter ycan last for an entire day of testing  
>>> without
>>> needing to be recharged.
>>>
>>> This is not exactly the cheapest solution, but I believe it's what  
>>> I will
>>> do
>>> it I need a clean computer.
>>>
>>> Angie
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info  
>>> for
>>> blindlaw:
>>>
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b.schulz%40sbcglob
>> al.net
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindlaw:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdborne%40gmail.co
>> m
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info  
>> for blindlaw:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info  
> for blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/everett%40zufelt.ca



From slabarre at labarrelaw.com  Mon Jun 15 18:40:21 2009
From: slabarre at labarrelaw.com (Scott C. LaBarre)
Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 12:40:21 -0600
Subject: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
References: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6BF01001@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local><BAY105-DAV3286CB50FCFD6FE77B90ABB410@phx.gbl>	<4a354d03.86c3f10a.0d1b.4f44@mx.google.com><8890DEF2DAEF4AC89881B5750993217B@notebook>
	<4a358b99.1ac1f10a.0ed9.4fff@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <AE65BAF30FEC46C087D9261D40BE70F6@labarre>

Greetings:

It is absolutely unacceptable to call anyone or anyone's ideas "dumb" or any 
other such term!!  The next such eppisode of same will be met with immediate 
removal from this list.  It is also accurate to note that when we have had 
such troubles in the past, it almost always comes from list members who are 
not attorneys, legal professionals, or law students.  We are strongly 
considering the idea of  limiting this list to those in the legal profession 
or actively seeking admission thereto.

Scott C. LaBarre, Esq.
President
National Association of Blind Lawyers

LaBarre Law Offices P.C.
1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918
Denver, Colorado 80222
303 504-5979 (voice)
303 757-3640 (fax)
slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail)
www.labarrelaw.com (website)

CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and privileged 
information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read, 
copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in 
error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or slabarre at labarrelaw.com, 
and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any attachments 
are covered by the Electronic
Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Angie Matney" <angie.matney at gmail.com>
To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 5:45 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied


> Also, using my strategy will enable me to take my fully operational 
> computer
> with me for use in the evenings. I fully admit this is not the cheapest 
> way
> to go, but there is no call for you to be rude about it. Simply don't do 
> as
> I have suggested. Post your own ideas and refrain from junior-high-school
> dialogue.
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Bryan Schulz
> Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 6:51 PM
> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
>
> Hi,
>
> DUMB!
> buy another 2.5" laptop hard drive and a thin sata to usb enclosure.
> then use casper to clone your drive to the second hard drive as it is free
> for 30 days.
> then uninstall everything you have to in order to comply with the testing
> rules.
> after the test, swap the hard drives as the new one will most likely have
> much more capacity and you could then use the original smaller drive in 
> the
> usb enclosure for extra storage.
> the new drive and enclosure will cost about $80.
>
> Bryan Schulz
> The BEST Solution
> www.best-acts.com
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Angie Matney" <angie.matney at gmail.com>
> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 2:18 PM
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
>
>
>> For those who are lucky enough to be able to use a laptop on the essays, 
>> I
>> have a thought. If I am ultimately granted this accommodation, I expect
>> the
>> Board will ask me to wipe my computer clean. I believe that, instead of
>> gutting my computer (and then worrying that I have inadvertently left
>> something on there that shouldn't be there), I am going to buy a second
>> netbook for use on the bar. A netbook costs around $400. I might buy one
>> just like the one I am using now. I can always sell it at a discount 
>> after
>> I'm done. (Then again, I might keep it and turn it into a linux
>> machine...but that''s a topic of discussion for another list.) Current
>> netbooks comply with the technical requirements that Virginia has for
>> laptops. Also, the batter ycan last for an entire day of testing without
>> needing to be recharged.
>>
>> This is not exactly the cheapest solution, but I believe it's what I will
>> do
>> it I need a clean computer.
>>
>> Angie
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindlaw:
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b.schulz%40sbcglob
> al.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie.matney%40gma
> il.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/slabarre%40labarrelaw.com
> 




From marks at accessingenuity.com  Mon Jun 15 21:31:34 2009
From: marks at accessingenuity.com (Mark Stimson)
Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 14:31:34 -0700
Subject: [blindlaw] California Trying E-books in high school
In-Reply-To: <C41B91C8F59E41198D0CF10051401FC0@D3DTZP41>
References: <C41B91C8F59E41198D0CF10051401FC0@D3DTZP41>
Message-ID: <022301c9ee00$a868f030$f93ad090$@com>

This is very interesting, thanks for the info.  I do a lot of work on
accessibility of electronic documents (and Web sites) in California; not as
a lawyer but as a field expert usually brought in after a settlement.  If
the E-Books are formatted correctly, this E-Book roll out can be extremely
beneficial for students and teachers with visual impairments.  However, so
often publishers are either unaware of federal and state accessibility
requirements, or implement only the minimal necessities.  Is there anyone
out there that has some experience working on law involving the
accessibility of electronic information?  I joined this group recently to
learn more about the legal side of accessibility.

Best regards, Mark

Mark Stimson, Ph.D.
Document Accessibility Expert
www.DocumentAccessibility.com
www.AccessnIgenuity.com 

-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Robert Jaquiss
Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 5:04 AM
To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
Subject: [blindlaw] California Trying E-books in high school
Importance: High

Hello LIst:

     I saw an article mentioning that California is going to roll out
E-books for high school. Doing some research, I found a "fact sheet" on the
governor's page. The link to it is below.

http://gov.ca.gov/index.php?/fact-sheet/12455/

Regards,

Robert Jaquiss
_______________________________________________
blindlaw mailing list
blindlaw at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
blindlaw:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/marks%40accessinge
nuity.com

__________ NOD32 4155 (20090615) Information __________

This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
http://www.eset.com




From rwayne1 at nyc.rr.com  Mon Jun 15 23:48:13 2009
From: rwayne1 at nyc.rr.com (ray wayne)
Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 19:48:13 -0400
Subject: [blindlaw] [bllaw] International Copyright Concerns for Blind
	Readers
In-Reply-To: <auto-000104125313@mailfront2.g2host.com>
References: <auto-000104125313@mailfront2.g2host.com>
Message-ID: <20090615234813.rwayne1@nyc.rr.com>

Does anyone have updated information on the status of this matter? My chapter members received this e-mail, and our meeting is this Wednesday. The question will invariably come up. 
Thanks in advance. 
Ray Wayne
PS: Please know that I am requesting information only��I do not, REPEAT, DO NOT, wish to instigate a flurry of commentary about the Obama administration! 


----- Original Message -----
From: "Frye, Dan" <DFrye at nfb.org> (by way of David Andrews <dandrews at visi.com>)
To: david.andrews at nfbnet.org
Date: Friday, May 29, 2009 17:42:27
Subject: [bllaw] International Copyright Concerns for Blind Readers

>
>
> 
> Colleagues:
> 
> I am circulating a lengthy post regarding efforts to limit an 
> international treaty that would allow for rules that parallel 
> existing domestic exceptions to the copyright law for blind people to 
> govern in an international context. Please help bring pressure on 
> authorities by letting President Obama know that these provisions 
> would be useful, and ask him to direct his representatives to abandon 
> their hostile posture toward aspects of the treaty that would be 
> helpful. You may Email your concerns to:
> 
> <mailto:President at whitehouse.gov>President at whitehouse.gov
> 
> The post follows:
> 
> 
> Right now, in Geneva, at the UN's World Intellectual Property 
> Organization, history is being made. For the first time in WIPO 
> history, the body that creates the world's copyright treaties is 
> attempting to write a copyright treaty dedicated to protecting the 
> interests of copyright users, not just copyright owners.
> 
> At issue is a treaty to protect the rights of blind people and people 
> with other disabilities that affect reading (people with dyslexia, 
> people who are paralyzed or lack arms or hands for turning pages). 
> This should be a slam dunk: who wouldn't want a harmonized system of 
> copyright exceptions that ensure that it's possible for disabled 
> people to get access to the written word?
> 
> The USA, that's who. The Obama administration'
> 
> US negotiators have joined with a rogue's gallery of rich country 
> trade representatives to oppose protection for blind people. Other 
> nations and regions opposing the rights of blind people include 
> Canada and the EU.
> 
> Update: Also opposing rights for disabled people: Australia, New 
> Zealand, the Vatican and Norway.
> 
> Activists at WIPO are desperate to get the word out. They're tweeting 
> madly from the negotiation (technically called the 18th session of 
> the Standing Committee on Copyright and Related Rights) publishing 
> editorials on the Huffington Post, etc.
> 
> Here's where you come in: this has to get wide exposure, to get cast 
> as broadly as possible, so that it will find its way into the ears of 
> the obscure power-brokers who control national trade-negotiators.
> 
> I don't often ask readers to do things like this, but please, forward 
> this post to people you know in the US, Canada and the EU, and ask 
> them to reblog, tweet, and spread the word, especially to government 
> officials and activists who work on disabled rights. We know that 
> WIPO negotiations can be overwhelmed by citizen activists -- that's 
> how we killed the Broadcast Treaty negotiation a few years back -- 
> and with your help, we can make history, and create a world where 
> copyright law protects the public interest.
> 
> I am attending a meeting in Geneva of the World Intellectual Property 
> Organization (WIPO). This evening the United States government, in 
> combination with other high income countries in "Group B" is seeking 
> to block an agreement to discuss a treaty for persons who are blind 
> or have other reading disabilities.
> 
> The proposal for a treaty is supported by a large number of civil 
> society NGOs, the World Blind Union, the National Federation of the 
> Blind in the US, the International DAISY Consortium, Recording for 
> the Blind & Dyslexic (RFB&D), Bookshare.Org, and groups representing 
> persons with reading disabilities all around the world.
> 
> The main aim of the treaty is to allow the cross-border import and 
> export of digital copies of books and other copyrighted works in 
> formats that are accessible to persons who are blind, visually 
> impaired, dyslexic or have other reading disabilities, using special 
> devices that present text as refreshable braille, computer generated 
> text to speech, or large type. These works, which are expensive to 
> make, are typically created under national exceptions to copyright 
> law that are specifically written to benefit persons with disabilities.
> 
> ...
> 
> The opposition from the United States and other high income countries 
> is due to intense lobbying from a large group of publishers that 
> oppose a "paradigm shift,"
> 
> where treaties would protect consumer interests, rather than expand 
> rights for copyright owners.
> 
> The Obama Administration was lobbied heavily on this issue, including 
> meetings with high level White House officials. Assurances coming 
> into the negotiations this week that things were going in the right 
> direction have turned out to be false, as the United States 
> delegation has basically read from a script written by lobbyists for 
> publishers, extolling the virtues of market based solutions, ignoring 
> mountains of evidence of a "book famine" and the insane legal 
> barriers to share works.
> 
> Obama Joins Group to Block Treaty for Blind and Other Reading 
> Disabilities COPYRIGHT EXCEPTIONS AND LIMITATIONS Twitter feed for #sccr18
> 
> 
> 
> With Kind Regards,
> 
> 
> inininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininin*
> Daniel B. Frye, J.D.
> Associate Editor
> The Braille Monitor
> National Federation of the Blind
> Office of the President
> 1800 Johnson Street
> Baltimore, Maryland 21230
> Telephone: (410) 659-9314 Ext. 2208
> Mobile: (410) 241-7006
> Fax: (410) 685-5653
> Email: <mailto:DFrye at nfb.org>DFrye at nfb.org
> Web Address: <http://www.nfb.org/>www.nfb.org
> "Voice of the Nation's Blind"
> _______________________________________________
> bllaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for bllaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rwayne1%40nyc.rr.com


From dandrews at visi.com  Tue Jun 16 00:15:50 2009
From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews)
Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 19:15:50 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
In-Reply-To: <003401c9ed73$597ce8b0$0401a8c0@computer>
References: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6BF01001@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local>
	<BAY105-DAV3286CB50FCFD6FE77B90ABB410@phx.gbl>
	<4a354d03.86c3f10a.0d1b.4f44@mx.google.com>
	<8890DEF2DAEF4AC89881B5750993217B@notebook>
	<003401c9ed73$597ce8b0$0401a8c0@computer>
Message-ID: <auto-000106465133@mailfront2.g2host.com>

I understand your frustration with non-legal answers.  And ... your 
plea is basically a good one.  However, as the list owner, and 
moderator, I will ask one question and make one statement.  First, 
how would you propose I restrict the list to lawyers and legal 
types?  Should you send me a copy of your diploma?

secondly, some legal types here have and do ask technical questions 
-- partially setting the tone for the list.

David Andrews

At 11:40 PM 6/14/2009, you wrote:
>Bryan,
>
>You really need to learn a little tact.  She was looking for a work-around
>to an accommodation issue, not a tech solution to what she needed.
>
>Frankly, I am getting really tired of the non-attorney participants on this
>list chiming in on law (or bar exam) issues.  Is this or is it not a list
>for blind lawyers and law related to blind related issues?  If so, why are
>the attorneys (or law students) on this list constantly assaulted with
>flaming comments that neither answer legal questions nor promote the
>practice of law with blind attorneys?  Over the past few weeks, I have
>exercised my delete key more often than in the past due to the high email
>traffic related neither to the practice of law nor to legal issues related
>to blind plaintiffs/defendants.
>
>I respectfully ask that this loosy-goosy monitoring of this list serve be
>tightened.  I am frankly tired of receiving emails containing flames from
>non-attorneys discussing non-legal topics.  It is a waste of time and an
>annoyance.  I, as a practicing attorney, am less inclined to post a query to
>this list because I don't have the time or patience to deal with the replies
>coming from judgmental, non-legal participants in this list.
>
>Either blind attorneys/law students have a forum on blindnet, or they do
>not.
>
>Craig
>
>
>Craig Borne
>Baltimore, Maryland
>"A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial
>appearance of being right, and raises at first a formidable outcry in
>defense of custom."  --Thomas Paine, Common Sense



From dandrews at visi.com  Tue Jun 16 00:17:57 2009
From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews)
Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 19:17:57 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
In-Reply-To: <CC352DD9A7374E5BA8102F5D397452E7@notebook>
References: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6BF01001@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local>
	<BAY105-DAV3286CB50FCFD6FE77B90ABB410@phx.gbl>
	<4a354d03.86c3f10a.0d1b.4f44@mx.google.com>
	<8890DEF2DAEF4AC89881B5750993217B@notebook>
	<003401c9ed73$597ce8b0$0401a8c0@computer>
	<648DEB12A4E24197B6F89FF803E84BF6@notebook>
	<004801c9ed7e$82fb2890$0401a8c0@computer>
	<CC352DD9A7374E5BA8102F5D397452E7@notebook>
Message-ID: <auto-000103448916@mailfront1.g2host.com>

This thread needs to end now.

David Andrews, Moderator

At 01:29 AM 6/15/2009, you wrote:
>ok i guess it's the borne supremacy
>
>sorry to continue this useless post.
>i don't claim to know law and don't know you so i don't know how i 
>am considered your colleague.
>obviously you are one of the people that think your way is the only way
>you obviously can't tell the difference of saying someone is dumb or 
>a concept is thought of as dumb
>i am always professional when dealing with clients or an agency and 
>i don't feel it necessary to always type as if i'm wearing a suit 
>but feel free to pull that tie a couple inches tighter.
>realize that people offer opinions and hit delete if you don't like it.
>
>Bryan Schulz
>The BEST Solution
>www.best-acts.com
>
>----- Original Message ----- From: "Craig Borne" <cdborne at gmail.com>
>To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 12:59 AM
>Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
>
>
>>First of all, my name is not "Bud."
>>
>>Second, your tech strategy did not take into account what she proposed to do
>>with the computer after its use.
>>
>>Third, I appreciate your opinion as to my electronic and computer needs, but
>>I frankly don't see where you get off telling me what my courtroom demeanor
>>will or will not be.  If you stick to your expertise, you may do well.
>>However, telling someone that they are "dumb" for proposing a solution is
>>tactless at the least and arrogant at best.  I certainly hope you don't
>>treat your paying clients the same way you treat your "colleagues."
>>
>>I have had comments with you in the past, and frankly, I don't see how you
>>keep clients if you address them in the same rude manner that you address
>>fello Federationists.
>>
>>Craig
>>
>>
>>
>>Craig Borne
>>Baltimore, Maryland
>>"A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial
>>appearance of being right, and raises at first a formidable outcry in
>>defense of custom."  --Thomas Paine, Common Sense
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>Behalf Of Bryan Schulz
>>Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 1:13 AM
>>To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>>Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
>>
>>bud,
>>
>>i gave a solution to her problem that would have saved her a good $300.
>>she can do what ever she wants, get it solved or continue to battle the
>>testing official.
>>if you don't like my tact or attitude, that's probably mild to the courtroom
>>
>>and you'll be shark bait for the opposition.
>>
>>Bryan Schulz
>>The BEST Solution
>>www.best-acts.com
>>
>>----- Original Message ----- From: "Craig Borne" <cdborne at gmail.com>
>>To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 11:40 PM
>>Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
>>
>>
>>>Bryan,
>>>
>>>You really need to learn a little tact.  She was looking for a work-around
>>>to an accommodation issue, not a tech solution to what she needed.
>>>
>>>Frankly, I am getting really tired of the non-attorney participants on
>>>this
>>>list chiming in on law (or bar exam) issues.  Is this or is it not a list
>>>for blind lawyers and law related to blind related issues?  If so, why are
>>>the attorneys (or law students) on this list constantly assaulted with
>>>flaming comments that neither answer legal questions nor promote the
>>>practice of law with blind attorneys?  Over the past few weeks, I have
>>>exercised my delete key more often than in the past due to the high email
>>>traffic related neither to the practice of law nor to legal issues related
>>>to blind plaintiffs/defendants.
>>>
>>>I respectfully ask that this loosy-goosy monitoring of this list serve be
>>>tightened.  I am frankly tired of receiving emails containing flames from
>>>non-attorneys discussing non-legal topics.  It is a waste of time and an
>>>annoyance.  I, as a practicing attorney, am less inclined to post a query
>>>to
>>>this list because I don't have the time or patience to deal with the
>>>replies
>>>coming from judgmental, non-legal participants in this list.
>>>
>>>Either blind attorneys/law students have a forum on blindnet, or they do
>>>not.
>>>
>>>Craig
>>>
>>>
>>>Craig Borne
>>>Baltimore, Maryland
>>>"A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial
>>>appearance of being right, and raises at first a formidable outcry in
>>>defense of custom."  --Thomas Paine, Common Sense
>>>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>Behalf Of Bryan Schulz
>>>Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 6:51 PM
>>>To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>>>Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
>>>
>>>Hi,
>>>
>>>DUMB!
>>>buy another 2.5" laptop hard drive and a thin sata to usb enclosure.
>>>then use casper to clone your drive to the second hard drive as it is free
>>>for 30 days.
>>>then uninstall everything you have to in order to comply with the testing
>>>rules.
>>>after the test, swap the hard drives as the new one will most likely have
>>>much more capacity and you could then use the original smaller drive in
>>>the
>>>usb enclosure for extra storage.
>>>the new drive and enclosure will cost about $80.
>>>
>>>Bryan Schulz
>>>The BEST Solution
>>>www.best-acts.com
>>>
>>>----- Original Message ----- From: "Angie Matney" <angie.matney at gmail.com>
>>>To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 2:18 PM
>>>Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
>>>
>>>
>>>>For those who are lucky enough to be able to use a laptop on the essays,
>>>>I
>>>>have a thought. If I am ultimately granted this accommodation, I expect
>>>>the
>>>>Board will ask me to wipe my computer clean. I believe that, instead of
>>>>gutting my computer (and then worrying that I have inadvertently left
>>>>something on there that shouldn't be there), I am going to buy a second
>>>>netbook for use on the bar. A netbook costs around $400. I might buy one
>>>>just like the one I am using now. I can always sell it at a discount
>>>>after
>>>>I'm done. (Then again, I might keep it and turn it into a linux
>>>>machine...but that''s a topic of discussion for another list.) Current
>>>>netbooks comply with the technical requirements that Virginia has for
>>>>laptops. Also, the batter ycan last for an entire day of testing without
>>>>needing to be recharged.
>>>>
>>>>This is not exactly the cheapest solution, but I believe it's what I will
>>>>do
>>>>it I need a clean computer.
>>>>
>>>>Angie
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>blindlaw mailing list
>>>>blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>blindlaw:
>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b.schulz%40sbcglob
>>>al.net
>>>
>>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>blindlaw mailing list
>>>blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>blindlaw:
>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdborne%40gmail.co
>>>m
>>>
>>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>blindlaw mailing list
>>>blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>blindlaw:
>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b.schulz%40sbcglob
>>al.net
>>
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>blindlaw mailing list
>>blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>blindlaw:
>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdborne%40gmail.co
>>m
>>
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>blindlaw mailing list
>>blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>for blindlaw:
>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b.schulz%40sbcglobal.net 
>>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>blindlaw mailing list
>blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>for blindlaw:
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40visi.com
>
>
>__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus 
>signature database 4154 (20090615) __________
>
>The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.
>
>http://www.eset.com
>
>



From rjs059 at peoplepc.com  Tue Jun 16 00:39:51 2009
From: rjs059 at peoplepc.com (rjs059 at peoplepc.com)
Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 20:39:51 -0400
Subject: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
References: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6BF01001@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local><BAY105-DAV3286CB50FCFD6FE77B90ABB410@phx.gbl>	<4a354d03.86c3f10a.0d1b.4f44@mx.google.com><8890DEF2DAEF4AC89881B5750993217B@notebook><4a358b99.1ac1f10a.0ed9.4fff@mx.google.com>
	<AE65BAF30FEC46C087D9261D40BE70F6@labarre>
Message-ID: <5D0E4F7B8A144BBCBD6B21A5B4C6CFFB@rjige047kjawst>

I totally agree with scott on this point. RJ
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Scott C. LaBarre" <slabarre at labarrelaw.com>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 2:40 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied


Greetings:

It is absolutely unacceptable to call anyone or anyone's ideas "dumb" or any
other such term!!  The next such eppisode of same will be met with immediate
removal from this list.  It is also accurate to note that when we have had
such troubles in the past, it almost always comes from list members who are
not attorneys, legal professionals, or law students.  We are strongly
considering the idea of  limiting this list to those in the legal profession
or actively seeking admission thereto.

Scott C. LaBarre, Esq.
President
National Association of Blind Lawyers

LaBarre Law Offices P.C.
1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918
Denver, Colorado 80222
303 504-5979 (voice)
303 757-3640 (fax)
slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail)
www.labarrelaw.com (website)

CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and privileged
information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read,
copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in
error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or slabarre at labarrelaw.com,
and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any attachments
are covered by the Electronic
Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Angie Matney" <angie.matney at gmail.com>
To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 5:45 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied


> Also, using my strategy will enable me to take my fully operational
> computer
> with me for use in the evenings. I fully admit this is not the cheapest
> way
> to go, but there is no call for you to be rude about it. Simply don't do
> as
> I have suggested. Post your own ideas and refrain from junior-high-school
> dialogue.
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Bryan Schulz
> Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 6:51 PM
> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
>
> Hi,
>
> DUMB!
> buy another 2.5" laptop hard drive and a thin sata to usb enclosure.
> then use casper to clone your drive to the second hard drive as it is free
> for 30 days.
> then uninstall everything you have to in order to comply with the testing
> rules.
> after the test, swap the hard drives as the new one will most likely have
> much more capacity and you could then use the original smaller drive in
> the
> usb enclosure for extra storage.
> the new drive and enclosure will cost about $80.
>
> Bryan Schulz
> The BEST Solution
> www.best-acts.com
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Angie Matney" <angie.matney at gmail.com>
> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 2:18 PM
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
>
>
>> For those who are lucky enough to be able to use a laptop on the essays,
>> I
>> have a thought. If I am ultimately granted this accommodation, I expect
>> the
>> Board will ask me to wipe my computer clean. I believe that, instead of
>> gutting my computer (and then worrying that I have inadvertently left
>> something on there that shouldn't be there), I am going to buy a second
>> netbook for use on the bar. A netbook costs around $400. I might buy one
>> just like the one I am using now. I can always sell it at a discount
>> after
>> I'm done. (Then again, I might keep it and turn it into a linux
>> machine...but that''s a topic of discussion for another list.) Current
>> netbooks comply with the technical requirements that Virginia has for
>> laptops. Also, the batter ycan last for an entire day of testing without
>> needing to be recharged.
>>
>> This is not exactly the cheapest solution, but I believe it's what I will
>> do
>> it I need a clean computer.
>>
>> Angie
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindlaw:
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b.schulz%40sbcglob
> al.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie.matney%40gma
> il.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/slabarre%40labarrelaw.com
>



_______________________________________________
blindlaw mailing list
blindlaw at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
blindlaw:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rjs059%40peoplepc.com


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG.
Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 270.12.69/2176 - Release Date: 6/14/2009 
5:54 PM



From dandrews at visi.com  Tue Jun 16 02:32:38 2009
From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews)
Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 21:32:38 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] About blindlaw,
 was Request for laptop during  essay section denied
In-Reply-To: <8A243E22-60A1-4FE1-A617-013133B39155@zufelt.ca>
References: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6BF01001@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local>
	<BAY105-DAV3286CB50FCFD6FE77B90ABB410@phx.gbl>
	<4a354d03.86c3f10a.0d1b.4f44@mx.google.com>
	<8890DEF2DAEF4AC89881B5750993217B@notebook>
	<003401c9ed73$597ce8b0$0401a8c0@computer>
	<BAY105-DAV32F01823D9B696961F629BB3E0@phx.gbl>
	<8A243E22-60A1-4FE1-A617-013133B39155@zufelt.ca>
Message-ID: <auto-000106473032@mailfront2.g2host.com>

How would you guarantee that everyone on the list was a "legal professional?"

Dave

At 12:28 PM 6/15/2009, you wrote:
>Good afternoon,
>
>Perhaps people would benefit from a second list for law professionals
>only?
>
>About blindlaw:
>
>The purpose of Blind Law is for the discussion of legal matters and
>topics directly related to blind people and their blindness. This
>discussion area will
>be directly monitored by members of the National Association of Blind
>Lawyers, a division of the National Federation of the Blind.
>
>This area is also intended as a means for the members of the
>National Association of Blind Lawyers to stay in contact with each
>other.
>
>HTH,
>Everett
>
>
>On 15-Jun-09, at 10:46 AM, Rod Alcidonis wrote:
>
>>Craig:
>>
>>Good comments. There was a time when there was talk for the list to
>>remain only for blind attorneys, and I opposed it. Granted, I was
>>not a law student then, but I now see why this would have been the
>>best idea. There is a music production listserv called Midimag, it
>>is so well monitored that there aren't any posts that is not music
>>related. Folks usually don't get to post more than one off message
>>on the list.
>>
>>Rod Alcidonis, J.D.
>>C. 718-704-4651
>>roddj12 at hotmail.com
>>
>>----- Original Message ----- From: "Craig Borne" <cdborne at gmail.com>
>>To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 12:40 AM
>>Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
>>
>>
>>>Bryan,
>>>
>>>You really need to learn a little tact.  She was looking for a work- around
>>>to an accommodation issue, not a tech solution to what she needed.
>>>
>>>Frankly, I am getting really tired of the non-attorney participants
>>>on this
>>>list chiming in on law (or bar exam) issues.  Is this or is it not
>>>a list
>>>for blind lawyers and law related to blind related issues?  If so,
>>>why are
>>>the attorneys (or law students) on this list constantly assaulted
>>>with
>>>flaming comments that neither answer legal questions nor promote the
>>>practice of law with blind attorneys?  Over the past few weeks, I
>>>have
>>>exercised my delete key more often than in the past due to the high
>>>email
>>>traffic related neither to the practice of law nor to legal issues
>>>related
>>>to blind plaintiffs/defendants.
>>>
>>>I respectfully ask that this loosy-goosy monitoring of this list
>>>serve be
>>>tightened.  I am frankly tired of receiving emails containing
>>>flames from
>>>non-attorneys discussing non-legal topics.  It is a waste of time
>>>and an
>>>annoyance.  I, as a practicing attorney, am less inclined to post a
>>>query to
>>>this list because I don't have the time or patience to deal with
>>>the replies
>>>coming from judgmental, non-legal participants in this list.
>>>
>>>Either blind attorneys/law students have a forum on blindnet, or
>>>they do
>>>not.
>>>
>>>Craig
>>>
>>>
>>>Craig Borne
>>>Baltimore, Maryland
>>>"A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial
>>>appearance of being right, and raises at first a formidable outcry in
>>>defense of custom."  --Thomas Paine, Common Sense
>>>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw- bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>Behalf Of Bryan Schulz
>>>Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 6:51 PM
>>>To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>>>Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section
>>>denied
>>>
>>>Hi,
>>>
>>>DUMB!
>>>buy another 2.5" laptop hard drive and a thin sata to usb enclosure.
>>>then use casper to clone your drive to the second hard drive as it
>>>is free
>>>for 30 days.
>>>then uninstall everything you have to in order to comply with the
>>>testing
>>>rules.
>>>after the test, swap the hard drives as the new one will most
>>>likely have
>>>much more capacity and you could then use the original smaller
>>>drive in the
>>>usb enclosure for extra storage.
>>>the new drive and enclosure will cost about $80.
>>>
>>>Bryan Schulz
>>>The BEST Solution
>>>www.best-acts.com
>>>
>>>----- Original Message ----- From: "Angie Matney" <angie.matney at gmail.com >
>>>To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 2:18 PM
>>>Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section
>>>denied
>>>
>>>
>>>>For those who are lucky enough to be able to use a laptop on the
>>>>essays, I
>>>>have a thought. If I am ultimately granted this accommodation, I
>>>>expect
>>>>the
>>>>Board will ask me to wipe my computer clean. I believe that,
>>>>instead of
>>>>gutting my computer (and then worrying that I have inadvertently
>>>>left
>>>>something on there that shouldn't be there), I am going to buy a
>>>>second
>>>>netbook for use on the bar. A netbook costs around $400. I might
>>>>buy one
>>>>just like the one I am using now. I can always sell it at a
>>>>discount after
>>>>I'm done. (Then again, I might keep it and turn it into a linux
>>>>machine...but that''s a topic of discussion for another list.)
>>>>Current
>>>>netbooks comply with the technical requirements that Virginia has
>>>>for
>>>>laptops. Also, the batter ycan last for an entire day of testing
>>>>without
>>>>needing to be recharged.
>>>>
>>>>This is not exactly the cheapest solution, but I believe it's what
>>>>I will
>>>>do
>>>>it I need a clean computer.
>>>>
>>>>Angie
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>blindlaw mailing list
>>>>blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>for
>>>>blindlaw:
>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b.schulz%40sbcglob
>>>al.net
>>>
>>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>blindlaw mailing list
>>>blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>blindlaw:
>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdborne%40gmail.co
>>>m
>>>
>>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>blindlaw mailing list
>>>blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>for blindlaw:
>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail.com
>>
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>blindlaw mailing list
>>blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>for blindlaw:
>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/everett%40zufelt.ca
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>blindlaw mailing list
>blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>for blindlaw:
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40visi.com
>
>
>__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus 
>signature database 4156 (20090615) __________
>
>The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.
>
>http://www.eset.com
>
>



From bspiry at comcast.net  Tue Jun 16 05:11:25 2009
From: bspiry at comcast.net (Bill Spiry)
Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 22:11:25 -0700
Subject: [blindlaw] Update on essay situation
In-Reply-To: <4a365bba.03015a0a.2f47.005c@mx.google.com>
References: <4a365bba.03015a0a.2f47.005c@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <001a01c9ee40$ea7f03c0$bf7d0b40$@net>

Encouraging news. I hope it comes together.

-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Angie Matney
Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 7:34 AM
To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'
Subject: [blindlaw] Update on essay situation

Hello everyone,

 

I had a very positive conversation with someone in the Board's office this
morning. I don't have a final answer yet, but this person was very willing
to listen to my concerns and the alternatives I proposed. Hopefully, I will
be able to give you all a very positive update in the near future.

 

Thanks to all of you who related your bar-exam experiences.

 

Angie

 

 

_______________________________________________
blindlaw mailing list
blindlaw at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
blindlaw:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/bspiry%40comcast.n
et



From joramsey at cox.net  Tue Jun 16 06:53:54 2009
From: joramsey at cox.net (John )
Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 02:53:54 -0400
Subject: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
In-Reply-To: <5D0E4F7B8A144BBCBD6B21A5B4C6CFFB@rjige047kjawst>
Message-ID: <AD3A393697E345548D9A2ADE7652A59E@noneeb869fea9a>

Hello Scott,
I don't want to sound like some kind of censor, but I think that the recent
thread is a fine example of why the law students took the initiative to
create their own list some time ago. Unfortunately the same law student
specific threads have found their way back onto this list and it seems like
all we really ever end up talking about is the LSAT or whether or not the
States will allow a laptop to take the essay portion of the bar.
I honestly can say that I never had an issue with LSAC and in my experience
if you adequately state your accommodation needs they are pretty good about
providing reasonable accommodations. I did have my share of grief with the
Florida Board of Bar Examiners, but they too made reasonable accommodations.
That being said, it is rather tiring to listen to the same old threads about
the LSAT. That is just my opinion and I do know that I have the option to
unsubscribe.
Thanks,
John

John A. Ramsey Jr., Esq.

Gainesville, FL 32609

Phone: (352) 505-6642



-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of rjs059 at peoplepc.com
Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 8:40 PM
To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied


I totally agree with scott on this point. RJ
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Scott C. LaBarre" <slabarre at labarrelaw.com>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 2:40 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied


Greetings:

It is absolutely unacceptable to call anyone or anyone's ideas "dumb" or any
other such term!!  The next such eppisode of same will be met with immediate
removal from this list.  It is also accurate to note that when we have had
such troubles in the past, it almost always comes from list members who are
not attorneys, legal professionals, or law students.  We are strongly
considering the idea of  limiting this list to those in the legal profession
or actively seeking admission thereto.

Scott C. LaBarre, Esq.
President
National Association of Blind Lawyers

LaBarre Law Offices P.C.
1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918
Denver, Colorado 80222
303 504-5979 (voice)
303 757-3640 (fax)
slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail)
www.labarrelaw.com (website)

CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and privileged
information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read,
copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in
error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or slabarre at labarrelaw.com,
and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any attachments
are covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§
2510-2521.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Angie Matney" <angie.matney at gmail.com>
To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 5:45 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied


> Also, using my strategy will enable me to take my fully operational 
> computer with me for use in the evenings. I fully admit this is not 
> the cheapest way
> to go, but there is no call for you to be rude about it. Simply don't do
> as
> I have suggested. Post your own ideas and refrain from junior-high-school
> dialogue.
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] 
> On Behalf Of Bryan Schulz
> Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 6:51 PM
> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
>
> Hi,
>
> DUMB!
> buy another 2.5" laptop hard drive and a thin sata to usb enclosure. 
> then use casper to clone your drive to the second hard drive as it is 
> free for 30 days. then uninstall everything you have to in order to 
> comply with the testing rules.
> after the test, swap the hard drives as the new one will most likely have
> much more capacity and you could then use the original smaller drive in
> the
> usb enclosure for extra storage.
> the new drive and enclosure will cost about $80.
>
> Bryan Schulz
> The BEST Solution
> www.best-acts.com
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Angie Matney" <angie.matney at gmail.com>
> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 2:18 PM
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
>
>
>> For those who are lucky enough to be able to use a laptop on the 
>> essays, I have a thought. If I am ultimately granted this 
>> accommodation, I expect the
>> Board will ask me to wipe my computer clean. I believe that, instead of
>> gutting my computer (and then worrying that I have inadvertently left
>> something on there that shouldn't be there), I am going to buy a second
>> netbook for use on the bar. A netbook costs around $400. I might buy one
>> just like the one I am using now. I can always sell it at a discount
>> after
>> I'm done. (Then again, I might keep it and turn it into a linux
>> machine...but that''s a topic of discussion for another list.) Current
>> netbooks comply with the technical requirements that Virginia has for
>> laptops. Also, the batter ycan last for an entire day of testing without
>> needing to be recharged.
>>
>> This is not exactly the cheapest solution, but I believe it's what I 
>> will do it I need a clean computer.
>>
>> Angie
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org 
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindlaw:
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b.schulz%40s
> bcglob
> al.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org 
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindlaw: 
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie.matney
> %40gma
> il.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org 
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindlaw: 
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/slabarre%40l
> abarrelaw.com
>



_______________________________________________
blindlaw mailing list
blindlaw at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
blindlaw:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rjs059%40peoplepc.
com


----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----



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Checked by AVG.
Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 270.12.69/2176 - Release Date: 6/14/2009 
5:54 PM


_______________________________________________
blindlaw mailing list
blindlaw at nfbnet.org
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From everett at zufelt.ca  Tue Jun 16 07:29:37 2009
From: everett at zufelt.ca (E.J. Zufelt)
Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 03:29:37 -0400
Subject: [blindlaw] About blindlaw,
	was Request for laptop during  essay section denied
In-Reply-To: <auto-000106473032@mailfront2.g2host.com>
References: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6BF01001@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local>
	<BAY105-DAV3286CB50FCFD6FE77B90ABB410@phx.gbl>
	<4a354d03.86c3f10a.0d1b.4f44@mx.google.com>
	<8890DEF2DAEF4AC89881B5750993217B@notebook>
	<003401c9ed73$597ce8b0$0401a8c0@computer>
	<BAY105-DAV32F01823D9B696961F629BB3E0@phx.gbl>
	<8A243E22-60A1-4FE1-A617-013133B39155@zufelt.ca>
	<auto-000106473032@mailfront2.g2host.com>
Message-ID: <41B65A67-E36D-4802-B016-861237FBB88A@zufelt.ca>

Good evening Dave,

The list would have to be private and perhaps someone from NABL would  
have to confirm their membership.  NABL could determine what "legal  
professional" means: lawyer, paralegal, etc.

I myself would not be considered a legal professional.  I have  
completed only one year of law school.  I only suggested the idea  
because this has come up a few times since I joined the list.

HTH,
Everett

Follow me on Twitter
http://twitter.com/ezufelt

View my LinkedIn Profile
http://www.linkedin.com/in/ezufelt





On 15-Jun-09, at 10:32 PM, David Andrews wrote:

> How would you guarantee that everyone on the list was a "legal  
> professional?"
>
> Dave
>
> At 12:28 PM 6/15/2009, you wrote:
>> Good afternoon,
>>
>> Perhaps people would benefit from a second list for law professionals
>> only?
>>
>> About blindlaw:
>>
>> The purpose of Blind Law is for the discussion of legal matters and
>> topics directly related to blind people and their blindness. This
>> discussion area will
>> be directly monitored by members of the National Association of Blind
>> Lawyers, a division of the National Federation of the Blind.
>>
>> This area is also intended as a means for the members of the
>> National Association of Blind Lawyers to stay in contact with each
>> other.
>>
>> HTH,
>> Everett
>>
>>
>> On 15-Jun-09, at 10:46 AM, Rod Alcidonis wrote:
>>
>>> Craig:
>>>
>>> Good comments. There was a time when there was talk for the list to
>>> remain only for blind attorneys, and I opposed it. Granted, I was
>>> not a law student then, but I now see why this would have been the
>>> best idea. There is a music production listserv called Midimag, it
>>> is so well monitored that there aren't any posts that is not music
>>> related. Folks usually don't get to post more than one off message
>>> on the list.
>>>
>>> Rod Alcidonis, J.D.
>>> C. 718-704-4651
>>> roddj12 at hotmail.com
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Craig Borne" <cdborne at gmail.com>
>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 12:40 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section  
>>> denied
>>>
>>>
>>>> Bryan,
>>>>
>>>> You really need to learn a little tact.  She was looking for a  
>>>> work- around
>>>> to an accommodation issue, not a tech solution to what she needed.
>>>>
>>>> Frankly, I am getting really tired of the non-attorney participants
>>>> on this
>>>> list chiming in on law (or bar exam) issues.  Is this or is it not
>>>> a list
>>>> for blind lawyers and law related to blind related issues?  If so,
>>>> why are
>>>> the attorneys (or law students) on this list constantly assaulted
>>>> with
>>>> flaming comments that neither answer legal questions nor promote  
>>>> the
>>>> practice of law with blind attorneys?  Over the past few weeks, I
>>>> have
>>>> exercised my delete key more often than in the past due to the high
>>>> email
>>>> traffic related neither to the practice of law nor to legal issues
>>>> related
>>>> to blind plaintiffs/defendants.
>>>>
>>>> I respectfully ask that this loosy-goosy monitoring of this list
>>>> serve be
>>>> tightened.  I am frankly tired of receiving emails containing
>>>> flames from
>>>> non-attorneys discussing non-legal topics.  It is a waste of time
>>>> and an
>>>> annoyance.  I, as a practicing attorney, am less inclined to post a
>>>> query to
>>>> this list because I don't have the time or patience to deal with
>>>> the replies
>>>> coming from judgmental, non-legal participants in this list.
>>>>
>>>> Either blind attorneys/law students have a forum on blindnet, or
>>>> they do
>>>> not.
>>>>
>>>> Craig
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Craig Borne
>>>> Baltimore, Maryland
>>>> "A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial
>>>> appearance of being right, and raises at first a formidable  
>>>> outcry in
>>>> defense of custom."  --Thomas Paine, Common Sense
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw- bounces at nfbnet.org 
>>>> ] On
>>>> Behalf Of Bryan Schulz
>>>> Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 6:51 PM
>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section
>>>> denied
>>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> DUMB!
>>>> buy another 2.5" laptop hard drive and a thin sata to usb  
>>>> enclosure.
>>>> then use casper to clone your drive to the second hard drive as it
>>>> is free
>>>> for 30 days.
>>>> then uninstall everything you have to in order to comply with the
>>>> testing
>>>> rules.
>>>> after the test, swap the hard drives as the new one will most
>>>> likely have
>>>> much more capacity and you could then use the original smaller
>>>> drive in the
>>>> usb enclosure for extra storage.
>>>> the new drive and enclosure will cost about $80.
>>>>
>>>> Bryan Schulz
>>>> The BEST Solution
>>>> www.best-acts.com
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Angie Matney" <angie.matney at gmail.com 
>>>>  >
>>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 2:18 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section
>>>> denied
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> For those who are lucky enough to be able to use a laptop on the
>>>>> essays, I
>>>>> have a thought. If I am ultimately granted this accommodation, I
>>>>> expect
>>>>> the
>>>>> Board will ask me to wipe my computer clean. I believe that,
>>>>> instead of
>>>>> gutting my computer (and then worrying that I have inadvertently
>>>>> left
>>>>> something on there that shouldn't be there), I am going to buy a
>>>>> second
>>>>> netbook for use on the bar. A netbook costs around $400. I might
>>>>> buy one
>>>>> just like the one I am using now. I can always sell it at a
>>>>> discount after
>>>>> I'm done. (Then again, I might keep it and turn it into a linux
>>>>> machine...but that''s a topic of discussion for another list.)
>>>>> Current
>>>>> netbooks comply with the technical requirements that Virginia has
>>>>> for
>>>>> laptops. Also, the batter ycan last for an entire day of testing
>>>>> without
>>>>> needing to be recharged.
>>>>>
>>>>> This is not exactly the cheapest solution, but I believe it's what
>>>>> I will
>>>>> do
>>>>> it I need a clean computer.
>>>>>
>>>>> Angie
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>> for
>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b.schulz%40sbcglob
>>>> al.net
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info  
>>>> for
>>>> blindlaw:
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdborne%40gmail.co
>>>> m
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>> for blindlaw:
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail.com
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>> for blindlaw:
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/everett%40zufelt.ca
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info  
>> for blindlaw:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40visi.com
>>
>>
>> __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus  
>> signature database 4156 (20090615) __________
>>
>> The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.
>>
>> http://www.eset.com
>>
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info  
> for blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/everett%40zufelt.ca



From DFrye at nfb.org  Tue Jun 16 12:49:15 2009
From: DFrye at nfb.org (Frye, Dan)
Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 08:49:15 -0400
Subject: [blindlaw] [bllaw] International Copyright Concerns for
	BlindReaders
In-Reply-To: <20090615234813.rwayne1@nyc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6BF4FA55@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local>

Ray:
My understanding is that the issue was preserved for revisiting during
the next gathering of this body scheduled for sometime in late fall,
November I believe. This was regarded as a success in the international
context, since originally the effort was to have the topic entirely
removed from further discussion. If I receive any additional information
about how interested people can help advocate on this matter prior to
the next gathering, I'll pass it along. Chris Danielsen also follows
this issue fairly closely.

Dan Frye 

-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
On Behalf Of ray wayne
Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 7:48 PM
To: david.andrews at nfbnet.org; blindlaw at nfbnet.org
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] [bllaw] International Copyright Concerns for
BlindReaders

Does anyone have updated information on the status of this matter? My
chapter members received this e-mail, and our meeting is this Wednesday.
The question will invariably come up. 
Thanks in advance. 
Ray Wayne
PS: Please know that I am requesting information only-I do not, REPEAT,
DO NOT, wish to instigate a flurry of commentary about the Obama
administration! 


----- Original Message -----
From: "Frye, Dan" <DFrye at nfb.org> (by way of David Andrews
<dandrews at visi.com>)
To: david.andrews at nfbnet.org
Date: Friday, May 29, 2009 17:42:27
Subject: [bllaw] International Copyright Concerns for Blind Readers

>
>
> 
> Colleagues:
> 
> I am circulating a lengthy post regarding efforts to limit an 
> international treaty that would allow for rules that parallel existing

> domestic exceptions to the copyright law for blind people to govern in

> an international context. Please help bring pressure on authorities by

> letting President Obama know that these provisions would be useful, 
> and ask him to direct his representatives to abandon their hostile 
> posture toward aspects of the treaty that would be helpful. You may 
> Email your concerns to:
> 
> <mailto:President at whitehouse.gov>President at whitehouse.gov
> 
> The post follows:
> 
> 
> Right now, in Geneva, at the UN's World Intellectual Property 
> Organization, history is being made. For the first time in WIPO 
> history, the body that creates the world's copyright treaties is 
> attempting to write a copyright treaty dedicated to protecting the 
> interests of copyright users, not just copyright owners.
> 
> At issue is a treaty to protect the rights of blind people and people 
> with other disabilities that affect reading (people with dyslexia, 
> people who are paralyzed or lack arms or hands for turning pages).
> This should be a slam dunk: who wouldn't want a harmonized system of 
> copyright exceptions that ensure that it's possible for disabled 
> people to get access to the written word?
> 
> The USA, that's who. The Obama administration'
> 
> US negotiators have joined with a rogue's gallery of rich country 
> trade representatives to oppose protection for blind people. Other 
> nations and regions opposing the rights of blind people include Canada

> and the EU.
> 
> Update: Also opposing rights for disabled people: Australia, New 
> Zealand, the Vatican and Norway.
> 
> Activists at WIPO are desperate to get the word out. They're tweeting 
> madly from the negotiation (technically called the 18th session of the

> Standing Committee on Copyright and Related Rights) publishing 
> editorials on the Huffington Post, etc.
> 
> Here's where you come in: this has to get wide exposure, to get cast 
> as broadly as possible, so that it will find its way into the ears of 
> the obscure power-brokers who control national trade-negotiators.
> 
> I don't often ask readers to do things like this, but please, forward 
> this post to people you know in the US, Canada and the EU, and ask 
> them to reblog, tweet, and spread the word, especially to government 
> officials and activists who work on disabled rights. We know that WIPO

> negotiations can be overwhelmed by citizen activists -- that's how we 
> killed the Broadcast Treaty negotiation a few years back -- and with 
> your help, we can make history, and create a world where copyright law

> protects the public interest.
> 
> I am attending a meeting in Geneva of the World Intellectual Property 
> Organization (WIPO). This evening the United States government, in 
> combination with other high income countries in "Group B" is seeking 
> to block an agreement to discuss a treaty for persons who are blind or

> have other reading disabilities.
> 
> The proposal for a treaty is supported by a large number of civil 
> society NGOs, the World Blind Union, the National Federation of the 
> Blind in the US, the International DAISY Consortium, Recording for the

> Blind & Dyslexic (RFB&D), Bookshare.Org, and groups representing 
> persons with reading disabilities all around the world.
> 
> The main aim of the treaty is to allow the cross-border import and 
> export of digital copies of books and other copyrighted works in 
> formats that are accessible to persons who are blind, visually 
> impaired, dyslexic or have other reading disabilities, using special 
> devices that present text as refreshable braille, computer generated 
> text to speech, or large type. These works, which are expensive to 
> make, are typically created under national exceptions to copyright law

> that are specifically written to benefit persons with disabilities.
> 
> ...
> 
> The opposition from the United States and other high income countries 
> is due to intense lobbying from a large group of publishers that 
> oppose a "paradigm shift,"
> 
> where treaties would protect consumer interests, rather than expand 
> rights for copyright owners.
> 
> The Obama Administration was lobbied heavily on this issue, including 
> meetings with high level White House officials. Assurances coming into

> the negotiations this week that things were going in the right 
> direction have turned out to be false, as the United States delegation

> has basically read from a script written by lobbyists for publishers, 
> extolling the virtues of market based solutions, ignoring mountains of

> evidence of a "book famine" and the insane legal barriers to share 
> works.
> 
> Obama Joins Group to Block Treaty for Blind and Other Reading 
> Disabilities COPYRIGHT EXCEPTIONS AND LIMITATIONS Twitter feed for 
> #sccr18
> 
> 
> 
> With Kind Regards,
> 
> 
> ininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininin
> ininininininininin*
> Daniel B. Frye, J.D.
> Associate Editor
> The Braille Monitor
> National Federation of the Blind
> Office of the President
> 1800 Johnson Street
> Baltimore, Maryland 21230
> Telephone: (410) 659-9314 Ext. 2208
> Mobile: (410) 241-7006
> Fax: (410) 685-5653
> Email: <mailto:DFrye at nfb.org>DFrye at nfb.org
> Web Address: <http://www.nfb.org/>www.nfb.org "Voice of the Nation's 
> Blind"
> _______________________________________________
> bllaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
bllaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rwayne1%40ny
> c.rr.com



From jsorozco at gmail.com  Tue Jun 16 13:58:35 2009
From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco)
Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 09:58:35 -0400
Subject: [blindlaw] Purpose of the List
Message-ID: <1146FEAEC59240259CC39ED6D409B00D@Rufus>

Hello all,

For whatever it's worth, I appreciate the mix of attorneys and non-attorneys
on the list.  True, non-attorneys should be mindful that our opinions will
not always be appreciated by those actually practicing law, but practicing
attorneys should also learn patience in dealing with what I think is
well-intentioned thoughts by those of us in other professions.  Ultimately,
I think it great that members have a place where they can pose legal
questions for attorneys and even better that attorneys have a place to give
and take professional advice to their colleagues.  Perhaps both sides just
need to think about what they post before they post?  Non-attorneys should
be conscious of the fact that the list is primarily for attorneys and their
needs and that our other questions will be answered as their time allows.

Joe Orozco

"A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the
crowd."--Max Lucado
 

__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 4155 (20090615) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com
 



From stevep.deeley at insightbb.com  Tue Jun 16 14:55:44 2009
From: stevep.deeley at insightbb.com (Steve P. Deeley)
Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 10:55:44 -0400
Subject: [blindlaw] Purpose of the List
In-Reply-To: <1146FEAEC59240259CC39ED6D409B00D@Rufus>
References: <1146FEAEC59240259CC39ED6D409B00D@Rufus>
Message-ID: <9D34C2C91A8941389EE5FE60F1FF7441@StevePC>

You are correct Joe.  We probably need to watch some of the banter.  I'm 
guilty of that as well.  Steve
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Joe Orozco" <jsorozco at gmail.com>
To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 9:58 AM
Subject: [blindlaw] Purpose of the List


> Hello all,
>
> For whatever it's worth, I appreciate the mix of attorneys and 
> non-attorneys
> on the list.  True, non-attorneys should be mindful that our opinions will
> not always be appreciated by those actually practicing law, but practicing
> attorneys should also learn patience in dealing with what I think is
> well-intentioned thoughts by those of us in other professions. 
> Ultimately,
> I think it great that members have a place where they can pose legal
> questions for attorneys and even better that attorneys have a place to 
> give
> and take professional advice to their colleagues.  Perhaps both sides just
> need to think about what they post before they post?  Non-attorneys should
> be conscious of the fact that the list is primarily for attorneys and 
> their
> needs and that our other questions will be answered as their time allows.
>
> Joe Orozco
>
> "A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the
> crowd."--Max Lucado
>
>
> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus 
> signature
> database 4155 (20090615) __________
>
> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>
> http://www.eset.com
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.73/2180 - Release Date: 06/16/09 
07:41:00



From carter.tjoseph at gmail.com  Tue Jun 16 17:41:02 2009
From: carter.tjoseph at gmail.com (T. Joseph Carter)
Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 10:41:02 -0700
Subject: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
In-Reply-To: <AE65BAF30FEC46C087D9261D40BE70F6@labarre>
References: <4a358b99.1ac1f10a.0ed9.4fff@mx.google.com>
	<AE65BAF30FEC46C087D9261D40BE70F6@labarre>
Message-ID: <20090616174102.GB37098@yumi.bluecherry.net>

Scott,

I truly hope that this will not be found necessary.  Those who are 
not practicing attorneys on this list for the most part appear to 
defer to those who are in matters of legal opinion, regardless of 
whether they are or ever will be law students.

I have little experience by which to judge your observation, having 
joined the list myself only upon considering a career in law.  Yet it 
seems to me the troubles you describe would almost invariably come 
from those who do not defer to those more qualified in the field.

If this list has never seen a student who believes him/herself to 
know everything, I'd be inclined to believe it is only by chance.  
Granted, the probability is greatly reduced by the likelihood that 
such a person wouldn't last long in law school if they maintain such 
an outlook.  *grin*

Joseph

On Mon, Jun 15, 2009 at 12:40:21PM -0600, Scott C. LaBarre wrote:
> Greetings:
>
> It is absolutely unacceptable to call anyone or anyone's ideas "dumb" or 
> any other such term!!  The next such eppisode of same will be met with 
> immediate removal from this list.  It is also accurate to note that when 
> we have had such troubles in the past, it almost always comes from list 
> members who are not attorneys, legal professionals, or law students.  We 
> are strongly considering the idea of  limiting this list to those in the 
> legal profession or actively seeking admission thereto.
>
> Scott C. LaBarre, Esq.
> President
> National Association of Blind Lawyers
>
> LaBarre Law Offices P.C.
> 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918
> Denver, Colorado 80222
> 303 504-5979 (voice)
> 303 757-3640 (fax)
> slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail)
> www.labarrelaw.com (website)
>
> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and 
> privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may 
> not read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this 
> message in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or 
> slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. This 
> message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic
> Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521.
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Angie Matney" 
> <angie.matney at gmail.com>
> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 5:45 PM
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
>
>
>> Also, using my strategy will enable me to take my fully operational  
>> computer
>> with me for use in the evenings. I fully admit this is not the cheapest 
>> way
>> to go, but there is no call for you to be rude about it. Simply don't 
>> do as
>> I have suggested. Post your own ideas and refrain from junior-high-school
>> dialogue.
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf Of Bryan Schulz
>> Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 6:51 PM
>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> DUMB!
>> buy another 2.5" laptop hard drive and a thin sata to usb enclosure.
>> then use casper to clone your drive to the second hard drive as it is free
>> for 30 days.
>> then uninstall everything you have to in order to comply with the testing
>> rules.
>> after the test, swap the hard drives as the new one will most likely have
>> much more capacity and you could then use the original smaller drive in 
>> the
>> usb enclosure for extra storage.
>> the new drive and enclosure will cost about $80.
>>
>> Bryan Schulz
>> The BEST Solution
>> www.best-acts.com
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Angie Matney" 
>> <angie.matney at gmail.com>
>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 2:18 PM
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
>>
>>
>>> For those who are lucky enough to be able to use a laptop on the 
>>> essays, I
>>> have a thought. If I am ultimately granted this accommodation, I expect
>>> the
>>> Board will ask me to wipe my computer clean. I believe that, instead of
>>> gutting my computer (and then worrying that I have inadvertently left
>>> something on there that shouldn't be there), I am going to buy a second
>>> netbook for use on the bar. A netbook costs around $400. I might buy one
>>> just like the one I am using now. I can always sell it at a discount  
>>> after
>>> I'm done. (Then again, I might keep it and turn it into a linux
>>> machine...but that''s a topic of discussion for another list.) Current
>>> netbooks comply with the technical requirements that Virginia has for
>>> laptops. Also, the batter ycan last for an entire day of testing without
>>> needing to be recharged.
>>>
>>> This is not exactly the cheapest solution, but I believe it's what I will
>>> do
>>> it I need a clean computer.
>>>
>>> Angie
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> blindlaw:
>>>
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b.schulz%40sbcglob
>> al.net
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindlaw:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie.matney%40gma
>> il.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for  
>> blindlaw:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/slabarre%40labarrelaw.com
>>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/carter.tjoseph%40gmail.com


From Tim.Ford at cdph.ca.gov  Tue Jun 16 18:00:47 2009
From: Tim.Ford at cdph.ca.gov (Ford, Tim (CDPH-OLS))
Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 11:00:47 -0700
Subject: [blindlaw] Purpose of the List
In-Reply-To: <9D34C2C91A8941389EE5FE60F1FF7441@StevePC>
References: <1146FEAEC59240259CC39ED6D409B00D@Rufus>
	<9D34C2C91A8941389EE5FE60F1FF7441@StevePC>
Message-ID: <839F18076C66C345BD1C0A4ACA67A1F60315BC06@dhsexcmsg12.intra.dhs.ca.gov>

My humble observation is that we have two completely different scenarios
when non-lawyers/law students are participating on this list.

when someone who is not a lawyer or law student is involved, they
sometimes are genuinely asking for advice or guidance, and essentially
it is like a client consultation.  

The other situation is when the person is not interested in our advice,
but is instead interested in a debate on policy or social grounds.  It
is this latter situation that I believe we need to better control,
because it tends to go around in circles, generates a ton of notes,
often turns heated, and is of limited interest or value to those of us
who are interested mainly in the direct legal aspects of life.  

Just my opinion of course, but I think we need to seriously consider how
to help keep the list more towards its intended purpose.  Recently I
have come close to unsubscribing from the list, simply because there is
way too much traffic on tangential or unrelated notes, and it takes too
much time to read through all the strings looking for the pony.

Sincerely,
Tim Ford
 

-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
On Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley
Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 7:56 AM
To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Purpose of the List

You are correct Joe.  We probably need to watch some of the banter.  I'm
guilty of that as well.  Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joe Orozco" <jsorozco at gmail.com>
To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 9:58 AM
Subject: [blindlaw] Purpose of the List


> Hello all,
>
> For whatever it's worth, I appreciate the mix of attorneys and 
> non-attorneys on the list.  True, non-attorneys should be mindful that

> our opinions will not always be appreciated by those actually 
> practicing law, but practicing attorneys should also learn patience in

> dealing with what I think is well-intentioned thoughts by those of us 
> in other professions.
> Ultimately,
> I think it great that members have a place where they can pose legal 
> questions for attorneys and even better that attorneys have a place to

> give and take professional advice to their colleagues.  Perhaps both 
> sides just need to think about what they post before they post?  
> Non-attorneys should be conscious of the fact that the list is 
> primarily for attorneys and their needs and that our other questions 
> will be answered as their time allows.
>
> Joe Orozco
>
> "A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the 
> crowd."--Max Lucado
>
>
> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus 
> signature database 4155 (20090615) __________
>
> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>
> http://www.eset.com
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deele
> y%40insightbb.com


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http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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h.ca.gov


From Gary.Norman at cms.hhs.gov  Tue Jun 16 19:54:52 2009
From: Gary.Norman at cms.hhs.gov (Norman, Gary C. (CMS/CBC))
Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 15:54:52 -0400
Subject: [blindlaw] FYI
Message-ID: <BBA045412218F84A8C4ED7B65BED5EE106A72A3E@AVN3VS002.ees.hhs.gov>

Pasted below is a link to a release about the recent award, which I was
honored to have received at Wright State University in May.

 

http://www.wright.edu/cgi-bin/cm/news.cgi?action=news_item&id=1581


From b75205 at gmail.com  Tue Jun 16 22:16:23 2009
From: b75205 at gmail.com (James Pepper)
Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 17:16:23 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] California Trying E-books in high school
In-Reply-To: <C41B91C8F59E41198D0CF10051401FC0@D3DTZP41>
References: <C41B91C8F59E41198D0CF10051401FC0@D3DTZP41>
Message-ID: <fe5b78280906161516o4951824ay74aeafed0d1e83c9@mail.gmail.com>

They have already started this in Texas.   They are trying to create content
out of the public colleges instead of going to the publishers.  I would
recommend caution on the qualifications of the people who write the
textbooks.

For instance readers and childrens books are laid out with certain
requirements and although they may look like anyone can make them, they are
part of a larger educational plan.  Many people on the state level may try
to cut costs by writing this material themselves and thus the students loose
out on a massive scale. There is a need to keep track of the curriculum and
make sure they are not cutting corners.


James Pepper

From marks at accessingenuity.com  Tue Jun 16 22:39:34 2009
From: marks at accessingenuity.com (Mark Stimson)
Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 15:39:34 -0700
Subject: [blindlaw] [bllaw] International Copyright Concerns
	for	BlindReaders
In-Reply-To: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6BF4FA55@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local>
References: <20090615234813.rwayne1@nyc.rr.com>
	<7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6BF4FA55@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local>
Message-ID: <009101c9eed3$6b37a9d0$41a6fd70$@com>

Hi Ray,
There has been some very good posts and detailed information regarding the
WIPO Treaty on the discussion list blindwebbers at yahoogroups.com .  If you
would like, I could forward you the relevant posts.

Best regards, Mark

Mark Stimson, Ph.D.
Document Accessibility Expert
www.DocumentAccessibility.com
www.AccessnIgenuity.com
-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Frye, Dan
Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 5:49 AM
To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List; david.andrews at nfbnet.org
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] [bllaw] International Copyright Concerns for
BlindReaders

Ray:
My understanding is that the issue was preserved for revisiting during
the next gathering of this body scheduled for sometime in late fall,
November I believe. This was regarded as a success in the international
context, since originally the effort was to have the topic entirely
removed from further discussion. If I receive any additional information
about how interested people can help advocate on this matter prior to
the next gathering, I'll pass it along. Chris Danielsen also follows
this issue fairly closely.

Dan Frye 

-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
On Behalf Of ray wayne
Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 7:48 PM
To: david.andrews at nfbnet.org; blindlaw at nfbnet.org
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] [bllaw] International Copyright Concerns for
BlindReaders

Does anyone have updated information on the status of this matter? My
chapter members received this e-mail, and our meeting is this Wednesday.
The question will invariably come up. 
Thanks in advance. 
Ray Wayne
PS: Please know that I am requesting information only-I do not, REPEAT,
DO NOT, wish to instigate a flurry of commentary about the Obama
administration! 


----- Original Message -----
From: "Frye, Dan" <DFrye at nfb.org> (by way of David Andrews
<dandrews at visi.com>)
To: david.andrews at nfbnet.org
Date: Friday, May 29, 2009 17:42:27
Subject: [bllaw] International Copyright Concerns for Blind Readers

>
>
> 
> Colleagues:
> 
> I am circulating a lengthy post regarding efforts to limit an 
> international treaty that would allow for rules that parallel existing

> domestic exceptions to the copyright law for blind people to govern in

> an international context. Please help bring pressure on authorities by

> letting President Obama know that these provisions would be useful, 
> and ask him to direct his representatives to abandon their hostile 
> posture toward aspects of the treaty that would be helpful. You may 
> Email your concerns to:
> 
> <mailto:President at whitehouse.gov>President at whitehouse.gov
> 
> The post follows:
> 
> 
> Right now, in Geneva, at the UN's World Intellectual Property 
> Organization, history is being made. For the first time in WIPO 
> history, the body that creates the world's copyright treaties is 
> attempting to write a copyright treaty dedicated to protecting the 
> interests of copyright users, not just copyright owners.
> 
> At issue is a treaty to protect the rights of blind people and people 
> with other disabilities that affect reading (people with dyslexia, 
> people who are paralyzed or lack arms or hands for turning pages).
> This should be a slam dunk: who wouldn't want a harmonized system of 
> copyright exceptions that ensure that it's possible for disabled 
> people to get access to the written word?
> 
> The USA, that's who. The Obama administration'
> 
> US negotiators have joined with a rogue's gallery of rich country 
> trade representatives to oppose protection for blind people. Other 
> nations and regions opposing the rights of blind people include Canada

> and the EU.
> 
> Update: Also opposing rights for disabled people: Australia, New 
> Zealand, the Vatican and Norway.
> 
> Activists at WIPO are desperate to get the word out. They're tweeting 
> madly from the negotiation (technically called the 18th session of the

> Standing Committee on Copyright and Related Rights) publishing 
> editorials on the Huffington Post, etc.
> 
> Here's where you come in: this has to get wide exposure, to get cast 
> as broadly as possible, so that it will find its way into the ears of 
> the obscure power-brokers who control national trade-negotiators.
> 
> I don't often ask readers to do things like this, but please, forward 
> this post to people you know in the US, Canada and the EU, and ask 
> them to reblog, tweet, and spread the word, especially to government 
> officials and activists who work on disabled rights. We know that WIPO

> negotiations can be overwhelmed by citizen activists -- that's how we 
> killed the Broadcast Treaty negotiation a few years back -- and with 
> your help, we can make history, and create a world where copyright law

> protects the public interest.
> 
> I am attending a meeting in Geneva of the World Intellectual Property 
> Organization (WIPO). This evening the United States government, in 
> combination with other high income countries in "Group B" is seeking 
> to block an agreement to discuss a treaty for persons who are blind or

> have other reading disabilities.
> 
> The proposal for a treaty is supported by a large number of civil 
> society NGOs, the World Blind Union, the National Federation of the 
> Blind in the US, the International DAISY Consortium, Recording for the

> Blind & Dyslexic (RFB&D), Bookshare.Org, and groups representing 
> persons with reading disabilities all around the world.
> 
> The main aim of the treaty is to allow the cross-border import and 
> export of digital copies of books and other copyrighted works in 
> formats that are accessible to persons who are blind, visually 
> impaired, dyslexic or have other reading disabilities, using special 
> devices that present text as refreshable braille, computer generated 
> text to speech, or large type. These works, which are expensive to 
> make, are typically created under national exceptions to copyright law

> that are specifically written to benefit persons with disabilities.
> 
> ...
> 
> The opposition from the United States and other high income countries 
> is due to intense lobbying from a large group of publishers that 
> oppose a "paradigm shift,"
> 
> where treaties would protect consumer interests, rather than expand 
> rights for copyright owners.
> 
> The Obama Administration was lobbied heavily on this issue, including 
> meetings with high level White House officials. Assurances coming into

> the negotiations this week that things were going in the right 
> direction have turned out to be false, as the United States delegation

> has basically read from a script written by lobbyists for publishers, 
> extolling the virtues of market based solutions, ignoring mountains of

> evidence of a "book famine" and the insane legal barriers to share 
> works.
> 
> Obama Joins Group to Block Treaty for Blind and Other Reading 
> Disabilities COPYRIGHT EXCEPTIONS AND LIMITATIONS Twitter feed for 
> #sccr18
> 
> 
> 
> With Kind Regards,
> 
> 
> ininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininin
> ininininininininin*
> Daniel B. Frye, J.D.
> Associate Editor
> The Braille Monitor
> National Federation of the Blind
> Office of the President
> 1800 Johnson Street
> Baltimore, Maryland 21230
> Telephone: (410) 659-9314 Ext. 2208
> Mobile: (410) 241-7006
> Fax: (410) 685-5653
> Email: <mailto:DFrye at nfb.org>DFrye at nfb.org
> Web Address: <http://www.nfb.org/>www.nfb.org "Voice of the Nation's 
> Blind"
> _______________________________________________
> bllaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
bllaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rwayne1%40ny
> c.rr.com


_______________________________________________
blindlaw mailing list
blindlaw at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
blindlaw:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/marks%40accessinge
nuity.com

__________ NOD32 4157 (20090615) Information __________

This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
http://www.eset.com


From Cathryn.Bonnette at va.gov  Wed Jun 17 01:13:47 2009
From: Cathryn.Bonnette at va.gov (Bonnette, Cathryn (ORM))
Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 21:13:47 -0400
Subject: [blindlaw] FYI
In-Reply-To: <BBA045412218F84A8C4ED7B65BED5EE106A72A3E@AVN3VS002.ees.hhs.gov>
References: <BBA045412218F84A8C4ED7B65BED5EE106A72A3E@AVN3VS002.ees.hhs.gov>
Message-ID: <ADF1A8970DE96E49BE5360B69BE1242D03F182BE@VANCRMSGA4.vha.med.va.gov>

Gary:

Congrats!!! Good for you-

Thanks for sharing. I am passing it on to Tracey who is travelling.


Cathryn Bonnette
ADR Program Specialist
U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs (08)
Office of Resolution Management (ORM)
1575 I Street, NW-10th Floor
Washington, DC 20005
Office 202-461-0513
Fax 202-501-2885
 
http://www.va.gov/orm/
http://www.va.gov/orm/ADR.asp
cathryn.bonnette at va.gov
 
"This e-mail and any attachments are intended only for the use of the
addressee (s) named herein and may contain privileged and/or
confidential information. 
If you are not the intended recipient of this e-mail, ou are hereby
notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail,
and any attachments thereto, is strictly prohibited. If you have
received this e-mail in error, please notify me by return e-mail and via
telephone at (202) 461-0513 and permanently delete the original and any
copy of any e-mail and any printout thereof."
 
 
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
On Behalf Of Norman, Gary C. (CMS/CBC)
Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 3:55 PM
To: Joshua Friedman; Accounts2 Wheel Touring; btyler at law.csuohio.edu;
SLADE, JAMES (CMS/CPC); Stephen R. Lazarus; Day Al-Mohamed; Elaine
Gardner; Karen Sank; clnfinancial at comcast.net; Christine Gutleben; CHUCK
NORMAN; Laura and Gary Norman; Cohen, Terry L.; Arielle Bess; Vaughn,
Jacqueline R. (CMS/OSORA); thecascadeinn at comcast.net; Walker, Natoya;
ATLAST INC; Alexis Mitchell; Arnettia Wright, Esq;
rose.trotter at apachecorp.com; Herskovitz, Robert (OS/OPHS);
rjhoward at howardlawoffices.com; Rodgers, Thomas (HHS/); Roger A. Fairfax;
robrothman at aol.com; sheehan, pat; Cathy Raggio; Vanessa and Griffin;
amy96psu at yahoo.com; Laura and Gary Norman; Hamiel, Milton G.;
IAADP at aol.com; Berube, Debra (HHS/DAB); ditell at zoominternet.net;
Corning, Diane H. (CMS/OCSQ); Clark, David C (CMS/CPC); Dorothy Leggett;
Deb Kaiser; Danielle Sutton; smcclellan at opd.state.md.us;
clnfinancial at comcast.net; Bonnette, Cathryn (ORM); Barbara Graham;
Brody, Mark; Bush, Brandon L. (CMS/CPC); blindlaw at nfbnet.org
Subject: [blindlaw] FYI

Pasted below is a link to a release about the recent award, which I was
honored to have received at Wright State University in May.

 

http://www.wright.edu/cgi-bin/cm/news.cgi?action=news_item&id=1581

_______________________________________________
blindlaw mailing list
blindlaw at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
blindlaw:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cathryn.bonnet
te%40va.gov


From rwayne1 at nyc.rr.com  Wed Jun 17 02:27:59 2009
From: rwayne1 at nyc.rr.com (ray wayne)
Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 22:27:59 -0400
Subject: [blindlaw] [bllaw] International Copyright Concerns for
	BlindReaders
In-Reply-To: <009101c9eed3$6b37a9d0$41a6fd70$@com>
References: <20090615234813.rwayne1@nyc.rr.com>
	<7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6BF4FA55@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local>
	<009101c9eed3$6b37a9d0$41a6fd70$@com>
Message-ID: <20090617022759.rwayne1@nyc.rr.com>

Thanks; I think I'm okay for now. But I'll keep it in mind. 
Ray


----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Stimson" <marks at accessingenuity.com>
To: "'Ationfbnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Date: Tuesday, Jun 16, 2009 19:37:32
Subject: Re: [bllaw] [bllaw] International Copyright Concerns for BlReaders

>
>
> Hi Ray,
> There has been some very good posts and detailed information regarding the
> WIPO Treaty on the discussion list blindwebbers at yahoogroups.com .  If you
> would like, I could forward you the relevant posts.
> 
> Best regards, Mark
> 
> Mark Stimson, Ph.D.
> Document Accessibility Expert
> www.DocumentAccessibility.com
> www.AccessnIgenuity.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Frye, Dan
> Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 5:49 AM
> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List; david.andrews at nfbnet.org
> Subject: Re: [bllaw] [bllaw] International Copyright Concerns for
> BlReaders
> 
> Ray:
> My understanding is that the issue was preserved for revisiting during
> the next gathering of this body scheduled for sometime in late fall,
> November I believe. This was regarded as a success in the international
> context, since originally the effort was to have the topic entirely
> removed from further discussion. If I receive any additional information
> about how interested people can help advocate on this matter prior to
> the next gathering, I'll pass it along. Chris Danielsen also follows
> this issue fairly closely.
> 
> Dan Frye 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
> On Behalf Of ray wayne
> Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 7:48 PM
> To: david.andrews at nfbnet.org; blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> Subject: Re: [bllaw] [bllaw] International Copyright Concerns for
> BlReaders
> 
> Does anyone have updated information on the status of this matter? My
> chapter members received this e-mail, and our meeting is this Wednesday.
> The question will invariably come up. 
> Thanks in advance. 
> Ray Wayne
> PS: Please know that I am requesting information only-I do not, REPEAT,
> DO NOT, wish to instigate a flurry of commentary about the Obama
> administration! 
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Frye, Dan" <DFrye at nfb.org> (by way of David Andrews
> <dandrews at visi.com>)
> To: david.andrews at nfbnet.org
> Date: Friday, May 29, 2009 17:42:27
> Subject: [bllaw] International Copyright Concerns for Blind Readers
> 
> >
> >
> > 
> > Colleagues:
> > 
> > I am circulating a lengthy post regarding efforts to limit an 
> > international treaty that would allow for rules that parallel existing
> 
> > domestic exceptions to the copyright law for blind people to govern in
> 
> > an international context. Please help bring pressure on authorities by
> 
> > letting President Obama know that these provisions would be useful, 
> > and ask him to direct his representatives to abandon their hostile 
> > posture toward aspects of the treaty that would be helpful. You may 
> > Email your concerns to:
> > 
> > <mailto:President at whitehouse.gov>President at whitehouse.gov
> > 
> > The post follows:
> > 
> > 
> > Right now, in Geneva, at the UN's World Intellectual Property 
> > Organization, history is being made. For the first time in WIPO 
> > history, the body that creates the world's copyright treaties is 
> > attempting to write a copyright treaty dedicated to protecting the 
> > interests of copyright users, not just copyright owners.
> > 
> > At issue is a treaty to protect the rights of blind people and people 
> > with other disabilities that affect reading (people with dyslexia, 
> > people who are paralyzed or lack arms or hands for turning pages).
> > This should be a slam dunk: who wouldn't want a harmonized system of 
> > copyright exceptions that ensure that it's possible for disabled 
> > people to get access to the written word?
> > 
> > The USA, that's who. The Obama administration'
> > 
> > US negotiators have joined with a rogue's gallery of rich country 
> > trade representatives to oppose protection for blind people. Other 
> > nations and regions opposing the rights of blind people include Canada
> 
> > and the EU.
> > 
> > Update: Also opposing rights for disabled people: Australia, New 
> > Zealand, the Vatican and Norway.
> > 
> > Activists at WIPO are desperate to get the word out. They're tweeting 
> > madly from the negotiation (technically called the 18th session of the
> 
> > Standing Committee on Copyright and Related Rights) publishing 
> > editorials on the Huffington Post, etc.
> > 
> > Here's where you come in: this has to get wide exposure, to get cast 
> > as broadly as possible, so that it will find its way into the ears of 
> > the obscure power-brokers who control national trade-negotiators.
> > 
> > I don't often ask readers to do things like this, but please, forward 
> > this post to people you know in the US, Canada and the EU, and ask 
> > them to reblog, tweet, and spread the word, especially to government 
> > officials and activists who work on disabled rights. We know that WIPO
> 
> > negotiations can be overwhelmed by citizen activists -- that's how we 
> > killed the Broadcast Treaty negotiation a few years back -- and with 
> > your help, we can make history, and create a world where copyright law
> 
> > protects the public interest.
> > 
> > I am attending a meeting in Geneva of the World Intellectual Property 
> > Organization (WIPO). This evening the United States government, in 
> > combination with other high income countries in "Group B" is seeking 
> > to block an agreement to discuss a treaty for persons who are blind or
> 
> > have other reading disabilities.
> > 
> > The proposal for a treaty is supported by a large number of civil 
> > society NGOs, the World Blind Union, the National Federation of the 
> > Blind in the US, the International DAISY Consortium, Recording for the
> 
> > Blind & Dyslexic (RFB&D), Bookshare.Org, and groups representing 
> > persons with reading disabilities all around the world.
> > 
> > The main aim of the treaty is to allow the cross-border import and 
> > export of digital copies of books and other copyrighted works in 
> > formats that are accessible to persons who are blind, visually 
> > impaired, dyslexic or have other reading disabilities, using special 
> > devices that present text as refreshable braille, computer generated 
> > text to speech, or large type. These works, which are expensive to 
> > make, are typically created under national exceptions to copyright law
> 
> > that are specifically written to benefit persons with disabilities.
> > 
> > ...
> > 
> > The opposition from the United States and other high income countries 
> > is due to intense lobbying from a large group of publishers that 
> > oppose a "paradigm shift,"
> > 
> > where treaties would protect consumer interests, rather than expand 
> > rights for copyright owners.
> > 
> > The Obama Administration was lobbied heavily on this issue, including 
> > meetings with high level White House officials. Assurances coming into
> 
> > the negotiations this week that things were going in the right 
> > direction have turned out to be false, as the United States delegation
> 
> > has basically read from a script written by lobbyists for publishers, 
> > extolling the virtues of market based solutions, ignoring mountains of
> 
> > evidence of a "book famine" and the insane legal barriers to share 
> > works.
> > 
> > Obama Joins Group to Block Treaty for Blind and Other Reading 
> > Disabilities COPYRIGHT EXCEPTIONS AND LIMITATIONS Twitter feed for 
> > #sccr18
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > With Kind Regards,
> > 
> > 
> > ininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininin*
> > ininininininininin*
> > Daniel B. Frye, J.D.
> > Associate Editor
> > The Braille Monitor
> > National Federation of the Blind
> > Office of the President
> > 1800 Johnson Street
> > Baltimore, Maryland 21230
> > Telephone: (410) 659-9314 Ext. 2208
> > Mobile: (410) 241-7006
> > Fax: (410) 685-5653
> > Email: <mailto:DFrye at nfb.org>DFrye at nfb.org
> > Web Address: <http://www.nfb.org/>www.nfb.org "Voice of the Nation's 
> > Blind"
> > _______________________________________________
> > bllaw mailing list
> > blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> bllaw:
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rwayne1%40ny
> > c.rr.com
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> bllaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> bllaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/marks%40accessinge
> nuity.com
> 
> __________ NOD32 4157 (20090615) Information __________
> 
> This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
> http://www.eset.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> bllaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for bllaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rwayne1%40nyc.rr.com


From dandrews at visi.com  Wed Jun 17 02:21:37 2009
From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews)
Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 21:21:37 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
In-Reply-To: <AD3A393697E345548D9A2ADE7652A59E@noneeb869fea9a>
References: <5D0E4F7B8A144BBCBD6B21A5B4C6CFFB@rjige047kjawst>
	<AD3A393697E345548D9A2ADE7652A59E@noneeb869fea9a>
Message-ID: <auto-000103638372@mailfront1.g2host.com>

John:

Yes, you can subscribe, which we hope you don't, 
and you can also bring other topics etc. to the 
list.  The list is made up of individuals, and is 
only as good and strong as the individuals make it.

Dave

At 01:53 AM 6/16/2009, you wrote:
>Hello Scott,
>I don't want to sound like some kind of censor, but I think that the recent
>thread is a fine example of why the law students took the initiative to
>create their own list some time ago. Unfortunately the same law student
>specific threads have found their way back onto this list and it seems like
>all we really ever end up talking about is the LSAT or whether or not the
>States will allow a laptop to take the essay portion of the bar.
>I honestly can say that I never had an issue with LSAC and in my experience
>if you adequately state your accommodation needs they are pretty good about
>providing reasonable accommodations. I did have my share of grief with the
>Florida Board of Bar Examiners, but they too made reasonable accommodations.
>That being said, it is rather tiring to listen to the same old threads about
>the LSAT. That is just my opinion and I do know that I have the option to
>unsubscribe.
>Thanks,
>John
>
>John A. Ramsey Jr., Esq.
>
>Gainesville, FL 32609
>
>Phone: (352) 505-6642
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>Behalf Of rjs059 at peoplepc.com
>Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 8:40 PM
>To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
>
>
>I totally agree with scott on this point. RJ
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Scott C. LaBarre" <slabarre at labarrelaw.com>
>To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 2:40 PM
>Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
>
>
>Greetings:
>
>It is absolutely unacceptable to call anyone or anyone's ideas "dumb" or any
>other such term!!  The next such eppisode of same will be met with immediate
>removal from this list.  It is also accurate to note that when we have had
>such troubles in the past, it almost always comes from list members who are
>not attorneys, legal professionals, or law students.  We are strongly
>considering the idea of  limiting this list to those in the legal profession
>or actively seeking admission thereto.
>
>Scott C. LaBarre, Esq.
>President
>National Association of Blind Lawyers
>
>LaBarre Law Offices P.C.
>1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918
>Denver, Colorado 80222
>303 504-5979 (voice)
>303 757-3640 (fax)
>slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail)
>www.labarrelaw.com (website)
>
>CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and privileged
>information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read,
>copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in
>error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or slabarre at labarrelaw.com,
>and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any attachments
>are covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§
>2510-2521.
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Angie Matney" <angie.matney at gmail.com>
>To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 5:45 PM
>Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
>
>
> > Also, using my strategy will enable me to take my fully operational
> > computer with me for use in the evenings. I fully admit this is not
> > the cheapest way
> > to go, but there is no call for you to be rude about it. Simply don't do
> > as
> > I have suggested. Post your own ideas and refrain from junior-high-school
> > dialogue.
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
> > On Behalf Of Bryan Schulz
> > Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 6:51 PM
> > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
> > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > DUMB!
> > buy another 2.5" laptop hard drive and a thin sata to usb enclosure.
> > then use casper to clone your drive to the second hard drive as it is
> > free for 30 days. then uninstall everything you have to in order to
> > comply with the testing rules.
> > after the test, swap the hard drives as the new one will most likely have
> > much more capacity and you could then use the original smaller drive in
> > the
> > usb enclosure for extra storage.
> > the new drive and enclosure will cost about $80.
> >
> > Bryan Schulz
> > The BEST Solution
> > www.best-acts.com
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Angie Matney" <angie.matney at gmail.com>
> > To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> > Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 2:18 PM
> > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
> >
> >
> >> For those who are lucky enough to be able to use a laptop on the
> >> essays, I have a thought. If I am ultimately granted this
> >> accommodation, I expect the
> >> Board will ask me to wipe my computer clean. I believe that, instead of
> >> gutting my computer (and then worrying that I have inadvertently left
> >> something on there that shouldn't be there), I am going to buy a second
> >> netbook for use on the bar. A netbook costs around $400. I might buy one
> >> just like the one I am using now. I can always sell it at a discount
> >> after
> >> I'm done. (Then again, I might keep it and turn it into a linux
> >> machine...but that''s a topic of discussion for another list.) Current
> >> netbooks comply with the technical requirements that Virginia has for
> >> laptops. Also, the batter ycan last for an entire day of testing without
> >> needing to be recharged.
> >>
> >> This is not exactly the cheapest solution, but I believe it's what I
> >> will do it I need a clean computer.
> >>
> >> Angie
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> blindlaw mailing list
> >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >> blindlaw:
> >>
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b.schulz%40s
> > bcglob
> > al.net
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > blindlaw mailing list
> > blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > blindlaw:
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie.matney
> > %40gma
> > il.com
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > blindlaw mailing list
> > blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > blindlaw:
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/slabarre%40l
> > abarrelaw.com
> >
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>blindlaw mailing list
>blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>blindlaw:
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rjs059%40peoplepc.
>com
>
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>----
>
>
>
>No virus found in this incoming message.
>Checked by AVG.
>Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 270.12.69/2176 - Release Date: 6/14/2009
>5:54 PM
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>blindlaw mailing list
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>blindlaw:
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>
>
>_______________________________________________
>blindlaw mailing list
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>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get 
>your account info for blindlaw:
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>
>
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>version of virus signature database 4160 (20090616) __________
>
>The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.
>
>http://www.eset.com



From dandrews at visi.com  Wed Jun 17 02:23:22 2009
From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews)
Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 21:23:22 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] About blindlaw,
 was Request for laptop during   essay section denied
In-Reply-To: <41B65A67-E36D-4802-B016-861237FBB88A@zufelt.ca>
References: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6BF01001@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local>
	<BAY105-DAV3286CB50FCFD6FE77B90ABB410@phx.gbl>
	<4a354d03.86c3f10a.0d1b.4f44@mx.google.com>
	<8890DEF2DAEF4AC89881B5750993217B@notebook>
	<003401c9ed73$597ce8b0$0401a8c0@computer>
	<BAY105-DAV32F01823D9B696961F629BB3E0@phx.gbl>
	<8A243E22-60A1-4FE1-A617-013133B39155@zufelt.ca>
	<auto-000106473032@mailfront2.g2host.com>
	<41B65A67-E36D-4802-B016-861237FBB88A@zufelt.ca>
Message-ID: <auto-000106662274@mailfront2.g2host.com>

It comes up ever so often, then dies down, as does list traffic.

Some people think that I under-moderate lists, and occasionally this 
may be true, but most things are cyclical, and die down.  The act of 
moderating a list generally stirs up more flak then it solves.

Dave

At 02:29 AM 6/16/2009, you wrote:
>Good evening Dave,
>
>The list would have to be private and perhaps someone from NABL would
>have to confirm their membership.  NABL could determine what "legal
>professional" means: lawyer, paralegal, etc.
>
>I myself would not be considered a legal professional.  I have
>completed only one year of law school.  I only suggested the idea
>because this has come up a few times since I joined the list.
>
>HTH,
>Everett
>
>Follow me on Twitter
>http://twitter.com/ezufelt
>
>View my LinkedIn Profile
>http://www.linkedin.com/in/ezufelt
>
>
>
>
>
>On 15-Jun-09, at 10:32 PM, David Andrews wrote:
>
>>How would you guarantee that everyone on the list was a "legal
>>professional?"
>>
>>Dave
>>
>>At 12:28 PM 6/15/2009, you wrote:
>>>Good afternoon,
>>>
>>>Perhaps people would benefit from a second list for law professionals
>>>only?
>>>
>>>About blindlaw:
>>>
>>>The purpose of Blind Law is for the discussion of legal matters and
>>>topics directly related to blind people and their blindness. This
>>>discussion area will
>>>be directly monitored by members of the National Association of Blind
>>>Lawyers, a division of the National Federation of the Blind.
>>>
>>>This area is also intended as a means for the members of the
>>>National Association of Blind Lawyers to stay in contact with each
>>>other.
>>>
>>>HTH,
>>>Everett
>>>
>>>
>>>On 15-Jun-09, at 10:46 AM, Rod Alcidonis wrote:
>>>
>>>>Craig:
>>>>
>>>>Good comments. There was a time when there was talk for the list to
>>>>remain only for blind attorneys, and I opposed it. Granted, I was
>>>>not a law student then, but I now see why this would have been the
>>>>best idea. There is a music production listserv called Midimag, it
>>>>is so well monitored that there aren't any posts that is not music
>>>>related. Folks usually don't get to post more than one off message
>>>>on the list.
>>>>
>>>>Rod Alcidonis, J.D.
>>>>C. 718-704-4651
>>>>roddj12 at hotmail.com
>>>>
>>>>----- Original Message ----- From: "Craig Borne" <cdborne at gmail.com>
>>>>To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>>Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 12:40 AM
>>>>Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section
>>>>denied
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Bryan,
>>>>>
>>>>>You really need to learn a little tact.  She was looking for a
>>>>>work- around
>>>>>to an accommodation issue, not a tech solution to what she needed.
>>>>>
>>>>>Frankly, I am getting really tired of the non-attorney participants
>>>>>on this
>>>>>list chiming in on law (or bar exam) issues.  Is this or is it not
>>>>>a list
>>>>>for blind lawyers and law related to blind related issues?  If so,
>>>>>why are
>>>>>the attorneys (or law students) on this list constantly assaulted
>>>>>with
>>>>>flaming comments that neither answer legal questions nor promote
>>>>>the
>>>>>practice of law with blind attorneys?  Over the past few weeks, I
>>>>>have
>>>>>exercised my delete key more often than in the past due to the high
>>>>>email
>>>>>traffic related neither to the practice of law nor to legal issues
>>>>>related
>>>>>to blind plaintiffs/defendants.
>>>>>
>>>>>I respectfully ask that this loosy-goosy monitoring of this list
>>>>>serve be
>>>>>tightened.  I am frankly tired of receiving emails containing
>>>>>flames from
>>>>>non-attorneys discussing non-legal topics.  It is a waste of time
>>>>>and an
>>>>>annoyance.  I, as a practicing attorney, am less inclined to post a
>>>>>query to
>>>>>this list because I don't have the time or patience to deal with
>>>>>the replies
>>>>>coming from judgmental, non-legal participants in this list.
>>>>>
>>>>>Either blind attorneys/law students have a forum on blindnet, or
>>>>>they do
>>>>>not.
>>>>>
>>>>>Craig
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Craig Borne
>>>>>Baltimore, Maryland
>>>>>"A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial
>>>>>appearance of being right, and raises at first a formidable
>>>>>outcry in
>>>>>defense of custom."  --Thomas Paine, Common Sense
>>>>>
>>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>>From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw- 
>>>>>bounces at nfbnet.org ] On
>>>>>Behalf Of Bryan Schulz
>>>>>Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 6:51 PM
>>>>>To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>>>>>Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section
>>>>>denied
>>>>>
>>>>>Hi,
>>>>>
>>>>>DUMB!
>>>>>buy another 2.5" laptop hard drive and a thin sata to usb
>>>>>enclosure.
>>>>>then use casper to clone your drive to the second hard drive as it
>>>>>is free
>>>>>for 30 days.
>>>>>then uninstall everything you have to in order to comply with the
>>>>>testing
>>>>>rules.
>>>>>after the test, swap the hard drives as the new one will most
>>>>>likely have
>>>>>much more capacity and you could then use the original smaller
>>>>>drive in the
>>>>>usb enclosure for extra storage.
>>>>>the new drive and enclosure will cost about $80.
>>>>>
>>>>>Bryan Schulz
>>>>>The BEST Solution
>>>>>www.best-acts.com
>>>>>
>>>>>----- Original Message ----- From: "Angie Matney" 
>>>>><angie.matney at gmail.com  >
>>>>>To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 2:18 PM
>>>>>Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section
>>>>>denied
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>For those who are lucky enough to be able to use a laptop on the
>>>>>>essays, I
>>>>>>have a thought. If I am ultimately granted this accommodation, I
>>>>>>expect
>>>>>>the
>>>>>>Board will ask me to wipe my computer clean. I believe that,
>>>>>>instead of
>>>>>>gutting my computer (and then worrying that I have inadvertently
>>>>>>left
>>>>>>something on there that shouldn't be there), I am going to buy a
>>>>>>second
>>>>>>netbook for use on the bar. A netbook costs around $400. I might
>>>>>>buy one
>>>>>>just like the one I am using now. I can always sell it at a
>>>>>>discount after
>>>>>>I'm done. (Then again, I might keep it and turn it into a linux
>>>>>>machine...but that''s a topic of discussion for another list.)
>>>>>>Current
>>>>>>netbooks comply with the technical requirements that Virginia has
>>>>>>for
>>>>>>laptops. Also, the batter ycan last for an entire day of testing
>>>>>>without
>>>>>>needing to be recharged.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>This is not exactly the cheapest solution, but I believe it's what
>>>>>>I will
>>>>>>do
>>>>>>it I need a clean computer.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Angie
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>>>blindlaw mailing list
>>>>>>blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>for
>>>>>>blindlaw:
>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b.schulz%40sbcglob
>>>>>al.net
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>>blindlaw mailing list
>>>>>blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>for
>>>>>blindlaw:
>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdborne%40gmail.co
>>>>>m
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>>blindlaw mailing list
>>>>>blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>for blindlaw:
>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>blindlaw mailing list
>>>>blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>for blindlaw:
>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/everett%40zufelt.ca
>>>
>>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>blindlaw mailing list
>>>blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>for blindlaw:
>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40visi.com
>>>
>>>
>>>__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus
>>>signature database 4156 (20090615) __________
>>>
>>>The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.
>>>
>>>http://www.eset.com
>>>
>>
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>blindlaw mailing list
>>blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>for blindlaw:
>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/everett%40zufelt.ca
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>blindlaw mailing list
>blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>for blindlaw:
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40visi.com
>
>
>__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus 
>signature database 4160 (20090616) __________
>
>The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.
>
>http://www.eset.com
>
>



From khagen12 at q.com  Wed Jun 17 03:18:32 2009
From: khagen12 at q.com (Kathleen Hagen)
Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 21:18:32 -0600
Subject: [blindlaw] Purpose of the List
References: <1146FEAEC59240259CC39ED6D409B00D@Rufus><9D34C2C91A8941389EE5FE60F1FF7441@StevePC>
	<839F18076C66C345BD1C0A4ACA67A1F60315BC06@dhsexcmsg12.intra.dhs.ca.gov>
Message-ID: <COL0-DAV306D1BC620476BCE1392ECC93C0@phx.gbl>

I agree with Tim.  I did actually unsubscribe from this list for a while 
because of the prolonged and personal debates that went on.  I came back 
because among all the chaff are a few kernels of very useful information.

I am on other lists where the moderator will simply step in at some point 
and say:  "discussion on this topic is now closed."  Or sometimes they write 
an e-mail directly to the parties involved off-list.  And, if the personal 
asides don't stop, they remove the instigators from the list.  That's not 
something anyone wants to do, but it may be necessary from time to time.
Kathleen Hagen
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ford, Tim (CDPH-OLS)" <Tim.Ford at cdph.ca.gov>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 12:00 PM
Subject: [blindlaw] Purpose of the List


> My humble observation is that we have two completely different scenarios
> when non-lawyers/law students are participating on this list.
>
> when someone who is not a lawyer or law student is involved, they
> sometimes are genuinely asking for advice or guidance, and essentially
> it is like a client consultation.
>
> The other situation is when the person is not interested in our advice,
> but is instead interested in a debate on policy or social grounds.  It
> is this latter situation that I believe we need to better control,
> because it tends to go around in circles, generates a ton of notes,
> often turns heated, and is of limited interest or value to those of us
> who are interested mainly in the direct legal aspects of life.
>
> Just my opinion of course, but I think we need to seriously consider how
> to help keep the list more towards its intended purpose.  Recently I
> have come close to unsubscribing from the list, simply because there is
> way too much traffic on tangential or unrelated notes, and it takes too
> much time to read through all the strings looking for the pony.
>
> Sincerely,
> Tim Ford
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
> On Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley
> Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 7:56 AM
> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Purpose of the List
>
> You are correct Joe.  We probably need to watch some of the banter.  I'm
> guilty of that as well.  Steve
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Joe Orozco" <jsorozco at gmail.com>
> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 9:58 AM
> Subject: [blindlaw] Purpose of the List
>
>
>> Hello all,
>>
>> For whatever it's worth, I appreciate the mix of attorneys and
>> non-attorneys on the list.  True, non-attorneys should be mindful that
>
>> our opinions will not always be appreciated by those actually
>> practicing law, but practicing attorneys should also learn patience in
>
>> dealing with what I think is well-intentioned thoughts by those of us
>> in other professions.
>> Ultimately,
>> I think it great that members have a place where they can pose legal
>> questions for attorneys and even better that attorneys have a place to
>
>> give and take professional advice to their colleagues.  Perhaps both
>> sides just need to think about what they post before they post?
>> Non-attorneys should be conscious of the fact that the list is
>> primarily for attorneys and their needs and that our other questions
>> will be answered as their time allows.
>>
>> Joe Orozco
>>
>> "A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the
>> crowd."--Max Lucado
>>
>>
>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus
>> signature database 4155 (20090615) __________
>>
>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>>
>> http://www.eset.com
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindlaw:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deele
>> y%40insightbb.com
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> --------
>
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.73/2180 - Release Date:
> 06/16/09 07:41:00
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tim.ford%40cdp
> h.ca.gov
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/khagen12%40q.com
> 



From dnepple at hotmail.com  Wed Jun 17 04:04:36 2009
From: dnepple at hotmail.com (don nepple)
Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 23:04:36 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] Purpose of the List
In-Reply-To: <COL0-DAV306D1BC620476BCE1392ECC93C0@phx.gbl>
References: <1146FEAEC59240259CC39ED6D409B00D@Rufus><9D34C2C91A8941389EE5FE60F1FF7441@StevePC>
	<839F18076C66C345BD1C0A4ACA67A1F60315BC06@dhsexcmsg12.intra.dhs.ca.gov>
	<COL0-DAV306D1BC620476BCE1392ECC93C0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <COL106-W9042C98FD2561A8E5E3EBA93C0@phx.gbl>


hi is it all rite too just red emails if you are not in law. i like what i have red.thank don nepple.
 
> From: khagen12 at q.com
> To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 21:18:32 -0600
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Purpose of the List
> 
> I agree with Tim. I did actually unsubscribe from this list for a while 
> because of the prolonged and personal debates that went on. I came back 
> because among all the chaff are a few kernels of very useful information.
> 
> I am on other lists where the moderator will simply step in at some point 
> and say: "discussion on this topic is now closed." Or sometimes they write 
> an e-mail directly to the parties involved off-list. And, if the personal 
> asides don't stop, they remove the instigators from the list. That's not 
> something anyone wants to do, but it may be necessary from time to time.
> Kathleen Hagen
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Ford, Tim (CDPH-OLS)" <Tim.Ford at cdph.ca.gov>
> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 12:00 PM
> Subject: [blindlaw] Purpose of the List
> 
> 
> > My humble observation is that we have two completely different scenarios
> > when non-lawyers/law students are participating on this list.
> >
> > when someone who is not a lawyer or law student is involved, they
> > sometimes are genuinely asking for advice or guidance, and essentially
> > it is like a client consultation.
> >
> > The other situation is when the person is not interested in our advice,
> > but is instead interested in a debate on policy or social grounds. It
> > is this latter situation that I believe we need to better control,
> > because it tends to go around in circles, generates a ton of notes,
> > often turns heated, and is of limited interest or value to those of us
> > who are interested mainly in the direct legal aspects of life.
> >
> > Just my opinion of course, but I think we need to seriously consider how
> > to help keep the list more towards its intended purpose. Recently I
> > have come close to unsubscribing from the list, simply because there is
> > way too much traffic on tangential or unrelated notes, and it takes too
> > much time to read through all the strings looking for the pony.
> >
> > Sincerely,
> > Tim Ford
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
> > On Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley
> > Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 7:56 AM
> > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
> > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Purpose of the List
> >
> > You are correct Joe. We probably need to watch some of the banter. I'm
> > guilty of that as well. Steve
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Joe Orozco" <jsorozco at gmail.com>
> > To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> > Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 9:58 AM
> > Subject: [blindlaw] Purpose of the List
> >
> >
> >> Hello all,
> >>
> >> For whatever it's worth, I appreciate the mix of attorneys and
> >> non-attorneys on the list. True, non-attorneys should be mindful that
> >
> >> our opinions will not always be appreciated by those actually
> >> practicing law, but practicing attorneys should also learn patience in
> >
> >> dealing with what I think is well-intentioned thoughts by those of us
> >> in other professions.
> >> Ultimately,
> >> I think it great that members have a place where they can pose legal
> >> questions for attorneys and even better that attorneys have a place to
> >
> >> give and take professional advice to their colleagues. Perhaps both
> >> sides just need to think about what they post before they post?
> >> Non-attorneys should be conscious of the fact that the list is
> >> primarily for attorneys and their needs and that our other questions
> >> will be answered as their time allows.
> >>
> >> Joe Orozco
> >>
> >> "A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the
> >> crowd."--Max Lucado
> >>
> >>
> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus
> >> signature database 4155 (20090615) __________
> >>
> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
> >>
> >> http://www.eset.com
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> blindlaw mailing list
> >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >> blindlaw:
> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deele
> >> y%40insightbb.com
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > --------
> >
> >
> >
> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> > Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.73/2180 - Release Date:
> > 06/16/09 07:41:00
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > blindlaw mailing list
> > blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > blindlaw:
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tim.ford%40cdp
> > h.ca.gov
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > blindlaw mailing list
> > blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> > blindlaw:
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/khagen12%40q.com
> > 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dnepple%40hotmail.com

_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail® has ever-growing storage! Don’t worry about storage limits.
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From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net  Wed Jun 17 12:14:20 2009
From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net)
Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 05:14:20 -0700
Subject: [blindlaw] [bllaw] International Copyright
	Concernsfor	BlindReaders
In-Reply-To: <009101c9eed3$6b37a9d0$41a6fd70$@com>
References: <20090615234813.rwayne1@nyc.rr.com><7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6BF4FA55@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local>
	<009101c9eed3$6b37a9d0$41a6fd70$@com>
Message-ID: <3454B75CCDE8415E9F7B82D535AD0190@spike>

What is Blindwebbers?
Chuck
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mark Stimson" <marks at accessingenuity.com>
To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 3:39 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] [bllaw] International Copyright Concernsfor 
BlindReaders


> Hi Ray,
> There has been some very good posts and detailed information regarding the
> WIPO Treaty on the discussion list blindwebbers at yahoogroups.com .  If you
> would like, I could forward you the relevant posts.
>
> Best regards, Mark
>
> Mark Stimson, Ph.D.
> Document Accessibility Expert
> www.DocumentAccessibility.com
> www.AccessnIgenuity.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Frye, Dan
> Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 5:49 AM
> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List; david.andrews at nfbnet.org
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] [bllaw] International Copyright Concerns for
> BlindReaders
>
> Ray:
> My understanding is that the issue was preserved for revisiting during
> the next gathering of this body scheduled for sometime in late fall,
> November I believe. This was regarded as a success in the international
> context, since originally the effort was to have the topic entirely
> removed from further discussion. If I receive any additional information
> about how interested people can help advocate on this matter prior to
> the next gathering, I'll pass it along. Chris Danielsen also follows
> this issue fairly closely.
>
> Dan Frye
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
> On Behalf Of ray wayne
> Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 7:48 PM
> To: david.andrews at nfbnet.org; blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] [bllaw] International Copyright Concerns for
> BlindReaders
>
> Does anyone have updated information on the status of this matter? My
> chapter members received this e-mail, and our meeting is this Wednesday.
> The question will invariably come up.
> Thanks in advance.
> Ray Wayne
> PS: Please know that I am requesting information only-I do not, REPEAT,
> DO NOT, wish to instigate a flurry of commentary about the Obama
> administration!
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Frye, Dan" <DFrye at nfb.org> (by way of David Andrews
> <dandrews at visi.com>)
> To: david.andrews at nfbnet.org
> Date: Friday, May 29, 2009 17:42:27
> Subject: [bllaw] International Copyright Concerns for Blind Readers
>
>>
>>
>>
>> Colleagues:
>>
>> I am circulating a lengthy post regarding efforts to limit an
>> international treaty that would allow for rules that parallel existing
>
>> domestic exceptions to the copyright law for blind people to govern in
>
>> an international context. Please help bring pressure on authorities by
>
>> letting President Obama know that these provisions would be useful,
>> and ask him to direct his representatives to abandon their hostile
>> posture toward aspects of the treaty that would be helpful. You may
>> Email your concerns to:
>>
>> <mailto:President at whitehouse.gov>President at whitehouse.gov
>>
>> The post follows:
>>
>>
>> Right now, in Geneva, at the UN's World Intellectual Property
>> Organization, history is being made. For the first time in WIPO
>> history, the body that creates the world's copyright treaties is
>> attempting to write a copyright treaty dedicated to protecting the
>> interests of copyright users, not just copyright owners.
>>
>> At issue is a treaty to protect the rights of blind people and people
>> with other disabilities that affect reading (people with dyslexia,
>> people who are paralyzed or lack arms or hands for turning pages).
>> This should be a slam dunk: who wouldn't want a harmonized system of
>> copyright exceptions that ensure that it's possible for disabled
>> people to get access to the written word?
>>
>> The USA, that's who. The Obama administration'
>>
>> US negotiators have joined with a rogue's gallery of rich country
>> trade representatives to oppose protection for blind people. Other
>> nations and regions opposing the rights of blind people include Canada
>
>> and the EU.
>>
>> Update: Also opposing rights for disabled people: Australia, New
>> Zealand, the Vatican and Norway.
>>
>> Activists at WIPO are desperate to get the word out. They're tweeting
>> madly from the negotiation (technically called the 18th session of the
>
>> Standing Committee on Copyright and Related Rights) publishing
>> editorials on the Huffington Post, etc.
>>
>> Here's where you come in: this has to get wide exposure, to get cast
>> as broadly as possible, so that it will find its way into the ears of
>> the obscure power-brokers who control national trade-negotiators.
>>
>> I don't often ask readers to do things like this, but please, forward
>> this post to people you know in the US, Canada and the EU, and ask
>> them to reblog, tweet, and spread the word, especially to government
>> officials and activists who work on disabled rights. We know that WIPO
>
>> negotiations can be overwhelmed by citizen activists -- that's how we
>> killed the Broadcast Treaty negotiation a few years back -- and with
>> your help, we can make history, and create a world where copyright law
>
>> protects the public interest.
>>
>> I am attending a meeting in Geneva of the World Intellectual Property
>> Organization (WIPO). This evening the United States government, in
>> combination with other high income countries in "Group B" is seeking
>> to block an agreement to discuss a treaty for persons who are blind or
>
>> have other reading disabilities.
>>
>> The proposal for a treaty is supported by a large number of civil
>> society NGOs, the World Blind Union, the National Federation of the
>> Blind in the US, the International DAISY Consortium, Recording for the
>
>> Blind & Dyslexic (RFB&D), Bookshare.Org, and groups representing
>> persons with reading disabilities all around the world.
>>
>> The main aim of the treaty is to allow the cross-border import and
>> export of digital copies of books and other copyrighted works in
>> formats that are accessible to persons who are blind, visually
>> impaired, dyslexic or have other reading disabilities, using special
>> devices that present text as refreshable braille, computer generated
>> text to speech, or large type. These works, which are expensive to
>> make, are typically created under national exceptions to copyright law
>
>> that are specifically written to benefit persons with disabilities.
>>
>> ...
>>
>> The opposition from the United States and other high income countries
>> is due to intense lobbying from a large group of publishers that
>> oppose a "paradigm shift,"
>>
>> where treaties would protect consumer interests, rather than expand
>> rights for copyright owners.
>>
>> The Obama Administration was lobbied heavily on this issue, including
>> meetings with high level White House officials. Assurances coming into
>
>> the negotiations this week that things were going in the right
>> direction have turned out to be false, as the United States delegation
>
>> has basically read from a script written by lobbyists for publishers,
>> extolling the virtues of market based solutions, ignoring mountains of
>
>> evidence of a "book famine" and the insane legal barriers to share
>> works.
>>
>> Obama Joins Group to Block Treaty for Blind and Other Reading
>> Disabilities COPYRIGHT EXCEPTIONS AND LIMITATIONS Twitter feed for
>> #sccr18
>>
>>
>>
>> With Kind Regards,
>>
>>
>> ininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininin
>> ininininininininin*
>> Daniel B. Frye, J.D.
>> Associate Editor
>> The Braille Monitor
>> National Federation of the Blind
>> Office of the President
>> 1800 Johnson Street
>> Baltimore, Maryland 21230
>> Telephone: (410) 659-9314 Ext. 2208
>> Mobile: (410) 241-7006
>> Fax: (410) 685-5653
>> Email: <mailto:DFrye at nfb.org>DFrye at nfb.org
>> Web Address: <http://www.nfb.org/>www.nfb.org "Voice of the Nation's
>> Blind"
>> _______________________________________________
>> bllaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> bllaw:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rwayne1%40ny
>> c.rr.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/marks%40accessinge
> nuity.com
>
> __________ NOD32 4157 (20090615) Information __________
>
> This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
> http://www.eset.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net 




From Tim.Ford at cdph.ca.gov  Wed Jun 17 13:46:52 2009
From: Tim.Ford at cdph.ca.gov (Ford, Tim (CDPH-OLS))
Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 06:46:52 -0700
Subject: [blindlaw] Behavior On This List
In-Reply-To: <20090616174102.GB37098@yumi.bluecherry.net>
References: <4a358b99.1ac1f10a.0ed9.4fff@mx.google.com><AE65BAF30FEC46C087D9261D40BE70F6@labarre>
	<20090616174102.GB37098@yumi.bluecherry.net>
Message-ID: <839F18076C66C345BD1C0A4ACA67A1F60315BC20@dhsexcmsg12.intra.dhs.ca.gov>

Hi All,

I have changed the subject line on this string, since it is now on the topic of use, or perhaps mis-use, of this list.  Changing subject lines when a thread changes is one way we can all help make the list more user friendly, and will better allow use of the delete key.  Otherwise, we maintain the problem of the time it takes to have to read through the text of the note because the subject line is no longer on point.

Tight controls over the list does not strike me as the preferred first option, since that approach would make a lot of work for one or more folks that no doubt have better things to do with their free time!

Perhaps instead the lawyers on the list can set an example by ceasing to send notes when an exchange switches over to something that is either off topic for the list, or when unprofessional conduct is involved.  It is hard to maintain an argument alone.

Sincerely,
Tim Ford

 

-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of T. Joseph Carter
Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 10:41 AM
To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied

Scott,

I truly hope that this will not be found necessary.  Those who are not practicing attorneys on this list for the most part appear to defer to those who are in matters of legal opinion, regardless of whether they are or ever will be law students.

I have little experience by which to judge your observation, having joined the list myself only upon considering a career in law.  Yet it seems to me the troubles you describe would almost invariably come from those who do not defer to those more qualified in the field.

If this list has never seen a student who believes him/herself to know everything, I'd be inclined to believe it is only by chance.  
Granted, the probability is greatly reduced by the likelihood that such a person wouldn't last long in law school if they maintain such an outlook.  *grin*

Joseph

On Mon, Jun 15, 2009 at 12:40:21PM -0600, Scott C. LaBarre wrote:
> Greetings:
>
> It is absolutely unacceptable to call anyone or anyone's ideas "dumb" 
> or any other such term!!  The next such eppisode of same will be met 
> with immediate removal from this list.  It is also accurate to note 
> that when we have had such troubles in the past, it almost always 
> comes from list members who are not attorneys, legal professionals, or 
> law students.  We are strongly considering the idea of  limiting this 
> list to those in the legal profession or actively seeking admission thereto.
>
> Scott C. LaBarre, Esq.
> President
> National Association of Blind Lawyers
>
> LaBarre Law Offices P.C.
> 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918
> Denver, Colorado 80222
> 303 504-5979 (voice)
> 303 757-3640 (fax)
> slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail)
> www.labarrelaw.com (website)
>
> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and 
> privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you 
> may not read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received 
> this message in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or 
> slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. 
> This message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic 
> Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521.
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Angie Matney" 
> <angie.matney at gmail.com>
> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 5:45 PM
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
>
>
>> Also, using my strategy will enable me to take my fully operational 
>> computer with me for use in the evenings. I fully admit this is not 
>> the cheapest way to go, but there is no call for you to be rude about 
>> it. Simply don't do as I have suggested. Post your own ideas and 
>> refrain from junior-high-school dialogue.
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org 
>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Bryan Schulz
>> Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 6:51 PM
>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section 
>> denied
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> DUMB!
>> buy another 2.5" laptop hard drive and a thin sata to usb enclosure.
>> then use casper to clone your drive to the second hard drive as it is 
>> free for 30 days.
>> then uninstall everything you have to in order to comply with the 
>> testing rules.
>> after the test, swap the hard drives as the new one will most likely 
>> have much more capacity and you could then use the original smaller 
>> drive in the usb enclosure for extra storage.
>> the new drive and enclosure will cost about $80.
>>
>> Bryan Schulz
>> The BEST Solution
>> www.best-acts.com
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Angie Matney" 
>> <angie.matney at gmail.com>
>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 2:18 PM
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section 
>> denied
>>
>>
>>> For those who are lucky enough to be able to use a laptop on the 
>>> essays, I have a thought. If I am ultimately granted this 
>>> accommodation, I expect the Board will ask me to wipe my computer 
>>> clean. I believe that, instead of gutting my computer (and then 
>>> worrying that I have inadvertently left something on there that 
>>> shouldn't be there), I am going to buy a second netbook for use on 
>>> the bar. A netbook costs around $400. I might buy one just like the 
>>> one I am using now. I can always sell it at a discount after I'm 
>>> done. (Then again, I might keep it and turn it into a linux 
>>> machine...but that''s a topic of discussion for another list.) 
>>> Current netbooks comply with the technical requirements that 
>>> Virginia has for laptops. Also, the batter ycan last for an entire 
>>> day of testing without needing to be recharged.
>>>
>>> This is not exactly the cheapest solution, but I believe it's what I 
>>> will do it I need a clean computer.
>>>
>>> Angie
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>> for
>>> blindlaw:
>>>
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b.schulz%40
>> sbcglob
>> al.net
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindlaw:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie.matne
>> y%40gma
>> il.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindlaw:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/slabarre%40
>> labarrelaw.com
>>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/carter.tjose
> ph%40gmail.com

_______________________________________________
blindlaw mailing list
blindlaw at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw:
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From marks at accessingenuity.com  Wed Jun 17 16:41:55 2009
From: marks at accessingenuity.com (Mark Stimson)
Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 09:41:55 -0700
Subject: [blindlaw] [bllaw] International
	Copyright	Concernsfor	BlindReaders
In-Reply-To: <3454B75CCDE8415E9F7B82D535AD0190@spike>
References: <20090615234813.rwayne1@nyc.rr.com><7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6BF4FA55@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local>	<009101c9eed3$6b37a9d0$41a6fd70$@com>
	<3454B75CCDE8415E9F7B82D535AD0190@spike>
Message-ID: <00c601c9ef6a$886bae60$99430b20$@com>

Blindwebbers is a distribution group that is a forum for blind and visually
impaired web authors to share ideas and tips; as well as sighted folks who
are interested in web and document accessibility and Section 508 compliancy.
The posts are from a wide range of people from beginners to experts.  It is
most often rather technical, but sometimes there are very helpful posts on
accessibility compliancy standards and regulation.

The link for the group is http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/blindwebbers 

Best regards, Mark

Mark Stimson, Ph.D.
Document Accessibility Expert
www.DocumentAccessibility.com
www.AccessnIgenuity.com
-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net
Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2009 5:14 AM
To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] [bllaw] International Copyright Concernsfor
BlindReaders

What is Blindwebbers?
Chuck
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Stimson" <marks at accessingenuity.com>
To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 3:39 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] [bllaw] International Copyright Concernsfor
BlindReaders


> Hi Ray,
> There has been some very good posts and detailed information regarding the
> WIPO Treaty on the discussion list blindwebbers at yahoogroups.com .  If you
> would like, I could forward you the relevant posts.
>
> Best regards, Mark
>
> Mark Stimson, Ph.D.
> Document Accessibility Expert
> www.DocumentAccessibility.com
> www.AccessnIgenuity.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Frye, Dan
> Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 5:49 AM
> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List; david.andrews at nfbnet.org
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] [bllaw] International Copyright Concerns for
> BlindReaders
>
> Ray:
> My understanding is that the issue was preserved for revisiting during
> the next gathering of this body scheduled for sometime in late fall,
> November I believe. This was regarded as a success in the international
> context, since originally the effort was to have the topic entirely
> removed from further discussion. If I receive any additional information
> about how interested people can help advocate on this matter prior to
> the next gathering, I'll pass it along. Chris Danielsen also follows
> this issue fairly closely.
>
> Dan Frye
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
> On Behalf Of ray wayne
> Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 7:48 PM
> To: david.andrews at nfbnet.org; blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] [bllaw] International Copyright Concerns for
> BlindReaders
>
> Does anyone have updated information on the status of this matter? My
> chapter members received this e-mail, and our meeting is this Wednesday.
> The question will invariably come up.
> Thanks in advance.
> Ray Wayne
> PS: Please know that I am requesting information only-I do not, REPEAT,
> DO NOT, wish to instigate a flurry of commentary about the Obama
> administration!
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Frye, Dan" <DFrye at nfb.org> (by way of David Andrews
> <dandrews at visi.com>)
> To: david.andrews at nfbnet.org
> Date: Friday, May 29, 2009 17:42:27
> Subject: [bllaw] International Copyright Concerns for Blind Readers
>
>>
>>
>>
>> Colleagues:
>>
>> I am circulating a lengthy post regarding efforts to limit an
>> international treaty that would allow for rules that parallel existing
>
>> domestic exceptions to the copyright law for blind people to govern in
>
>> an international context. Please help bring pressure on authorities by
>
>> letting President Obama know that these provisions would be useful,
>> and ask him to direct his representatives to abandon their hostile
>> posture toward aspects of the treaty that would be helpful. You may
>> Email your concerns to:
>>
>> <mailto:President at whitehouse.gov>President at whitehouse.gov
>>
>> The post follows:
>>
>>
>> Right now, in Geneva, at the UN's World Intellectual Property
>> Organization, history is being made. For the first time in WIPO
>> history, the body that creates the world's copyright treaties is
>> attempting to write a copyright treaty dedicated to protecting the
>> interests of copyright users, not just copyright owners.
>>
>> At issue is a treaty to protect the rights of blind people and people
>> with other disabilities that affect reading (people with dyslexia,
>> people who are paralyzed or lack arms or hands for turning pages).
>> This should be a slam dunk: who wouldn't want a harmonized system of
>> copyright exceptions that ensure that it's possible for disabled
>> people to get access to the written word?
>>
>> The USA, that's who. The Obama administration'
>>
>> US negotiators have joined with a rogue's gallery of rich country
>> trade representatives to oppose protection for blind people. Other
>> nations and regions opposing the rights of blind people include Canada
>
>> and the EU.
>>
>> Update: Also opposing rights for disabled people: Australia, New
>> Zealand, the Vatican and Norway.
>>
>> Activists at WIPO are desperate to get the word out. They're tweeting
>> madly from the negotiation (technically called the 18th session of the
>
>> Standing Committee on Copyright and Related Rights) publishing
>> editorials on the Huffington Post, etc.
>>
>> Here's where you come in: this has to get wide exposure, to get cast
>> as broadly as possible, so that it will find its way into the ears of
>> the obscure power-brokers who control national trade-negotiators.
>>
>> I don't often ask readers to do things like this, but please, forward
>> this post to people you know in the US, Canada and the EU, and ask
>> them to reblog, tweet, and spread the word, especially to government
>> officials and activists who work on disabled rights. We know that WIPO
>
>> negotiations can be overwhelmed by citizen activists -- that's how we
>> killed the Broadcast Treaty negotiation a few years back -- and with
>> your help, we can make history, and create a world where copyright law
>
>> protects the public interest.
>>
>> I am attending a meeting in Geneva of the World Intellectual Property
>> Organization (WIPO). This evening the United States government, in
>> combination with other high income countries in "Group B" is seeking
>> to block an agreement to discuss a treaty for persons who are blind or
>
>> have other reading disabilities.
>>
>> The proposal for a treaty is supported by a large number of civil
>> society NGOs, the World Blind Union, the National Federation of the
>> Blind in the US, the International DAISY Consortium, Recording for the
>
>> Blind & Dyslexic (RFB&D), Bookshare.Org, and groups representing
>> persons with reading disabilities all around the world.
>>
>> The main aim of the treaty is to allow the cross-border import and
>> export of digital copies of books and other copyrighted works in
>> formats that are accessible to persons who are blind, visually
>> impaired, dyslexic or have other reading disabilities, using special
>> devices that present text as refreshable braille, computer generated
>> text to speech, or large type. These works, which are expensive to
>> make, are typically created under national exceptions to copyright law
>
>> that are specifically written to benefit persons with disabilities.
>>
>> ...
>>
>> The opposition from the United States and other high income countries
>> is due to intense lobbying from a large group of publishers that
>> oppose a "paradigm shift,"
>>
>> where treaties would protect consumer interests, rather than expand
>> rights for copyright owners.
>>
>> The Obama Administration was lobbied heavily on this issue, including
>> meetings with high level White House officials. Assurances coming into
>
>> the negotiations this week that things were going in the right
>> direction have turned out to be false, as the United States delegation
>
>> has basically read from a script written by lobbyists for publishers,
>> extolling the virtues of market based solutions, ignoring mountains of
>
>> evidence of a "book famine" and the insane legal barriers to share
>> works.
>>
>> Obama Joins Group to Block Treaty for Blind and Other Reading
>> Disabilities COPYRIGHT EXCEPTIONS AND LIMITATIONS Twitter feed for
>> #sccr18
>>
>>
>>
>> With Kind Regards,
>>
>>
>> ininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininin
>> ininininininininin*
>> Daniel B. Frye, J.D.
>> Associate Editor
>> The Braille Monitor
>> National Federation of the Blind
>> Office of the President
>> 1800 Johnson Street
>> Baltimore, Maryland 21230
>> Telephone: (410) 659-9314 Ext. 2208
>> Mobile: (410) 241-7006
>> Fax: (410) 685-5653
>> Email: <mailto:DFrye at nfb.org>DFrye at nfb.org
>> Web Address: <http://www.nfb.org/>www.nfb.org "Voice of the Nation's
>> Blind"
>> _______________________________________________
>> bllaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> bllaw:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rwayne1%40ny
>> c.rr.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindlaw:
>
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> nuity.com
>
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> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
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> blindlaw:
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From mike.sandi at comcast.net  Wed Jun 17 22:06:16 2009
From: mike.sandi at comcast.net (Michael Groat)
Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 15:06:16 -0700
Subject: [blindlaw] Show respect and courtesy to our legal friends
Message-ID: <764B405671F1457FA6A10CD4A655257A@PUTTPUTT>

To All,

 

Please value this website for its original intended use and show respect and
courtesy to our legal friends by allowing them to use the site for its
intended use.  This sight is extremely valuable for those of us that need
assistance with an actual technical legal question.   

 

>From my reading the last two Blindlaw digests, I have come across numerous
postings that are not of a legal question as this sight was intended.  The
non legal questions would be better served by posting them on the NFB
mailing list.  The NFB mailing list has many readers that have an enormous
amount of answers including insight, experience and knowledge across a
myriad of subjects.   

 

By not using this website as intended for legal questions only, it is very
likely that the site it will become extinct.   If that happens, then the
only thing left will be the NFB mailing list.  So please post it on the NFB
mailing list first.   

 

There are some of us that need technical legal assistance to locate specific
laws and their applicability.  I also enjoy reading the legal technical
questions and the responses of law, insight there of and the legal
discussions between our legal friends.  

 

Please assist in eliminating the non technical legal questions.  This will
also assist those that enjoy reading the Blindlaw Digest to improve their
own legal knowledge.

I am sorry that I know of no other way to communicate with everyone involved
at one time.

If anyone desires to respond, please do it directly, but not as a posting to
the website.   That will only add to the non technical posting, which is
what we need to eliminate.

Thank you for your assistance in preserving the website.

Michael

 

 

 


From mike.sandi at comcast.net  Wed Jun 17 22:38:06 2009
From: mike.sandi at comcast.net (Michael Groat)
Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 15:38:06 -0700
Subject: [blindlaw] Request assistance in identifying a California law(s)
Message-ID: <10049EA4D38B40F7B7BB2917E6DDD6B4@PUTTPUTT>

I am trying to identify is the California Law(s) that requires a company to
maintain reasonable accommodations after the company has made major changes
to the company computer systems.  The company supplied reasonable
accommodations, which included the screen reader JAWS (Job Access With
Speech) in 2004.  Then in 2006 the company changed the company's computer
systems.  Which the changes the screen reader was only useable for reading a
very small segment of the programs and data.  My peripheral sight has
decreased so my dependency on a screen reader has increased significantly.
After the changes the company has not supported the request for reasonable
accommodation of the screen reader being able to access all of the company's
programs and data despite multiple requests for them to do so.   

I appreciate your assistance in indentifying the California Law(s) that
would be applicable.

 

I have read the ADA so it is the California law(s) that are left unread.  I
have been unable to locate a website that lists the California laws.

 

I look forward to you response.

Thank you

Michael Groat

 

 


From rumpole at roadrunner.com  Wed Jun 17 23:00:17 2009
From: rumpole at roadrunner.com (Ross Doerr)
Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 19:00:17 -0400
Subject: [blindlaw] Test
Message-ID: <89FD88123D8F44B2B65C88D0E7C081FF@Rosslaptop>

Forgive the test post - but I seem to be getting 2 emails every time someone posts something.

From angie.matney at gmail.com  Wed Jun 17 23:00:13 2009
From: angie.matney at gmail.com (Angie Matney)
Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 19:00:13 -0400
Subject: [blindlaw] Bar accommodation
Message-ID: <4a397581.86c3f10a.7916.105d@mx.google.com>

It looks like I will be able to use a computer for the essay portion of the
test after all. I am very, very relieved by this development! 

 

As for topics of the list: I think that, no matter what other lists might be
out there, there will be cyclic discussions of the LSAT and the Bar on this
list. Had I mentioned my bar exam situation only on the law students list, I
would not have learned that people in Maryland and Minnesota have received
the accommodation I was seeking. 

 

Thank you all,

 

Angie

 

 


From rumpole at roadrunner.com  Wed Jun 17 23:07:03 2009
From: rumpole at roadrunner.com (Ross Doerr)
Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 19:07:03 -0400
Subject: [blindlaw] Dave Andrews
Message-ID: <1B43F584973C4844A1AE5E92DF2E83F8@Rosslaptop>

Dave, could you please contact me off-list? I have a technical question for you about the dual postings I've been getting.
 

From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov  Wed Jun 17 23:17:15 2009
From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel)
Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 18:17:15 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] Senior Attorney, Seattle/King County, Washington
Message-ID: <E771EAA0575B844C98712011AE73D7ED3ADA0A2C75@EDUPTCEXMB03.ed.gov>


Text:
401 Second Ave S., Suite 407
Seattle, WA 98104
(206) 464-1519 Phone
(206) 903-0526 Fax
Toll Free 1-888-201-1012
TDD 1-888-201-9737
njp at nwjustice.org
www.nwjustice.org
César E. Torres
Executive Director
Senior Attorney, Seattle/King County, Washington`
The Northwest Justice Project, Washington's statewide, publicly funded civil legal aid program, is seeking
applications for a full-time Senior (Managing) Attorney for its Seattle field office serving King County, Washington.
With 14 staff attorneys, NJP's Seattle office is the largest of NJP's field offices. The Senior Attorney is responsible
for leading a dynamic team of experienced lawyers to engage with a highly diverse client community in identifying
and addressing the civil legal needs of low income persons, families and communities in King County. The Senior
Attorney will provide legal work supervision; collaborate with equal justice partners; maintain and enhance client
community relationships; engage in community relations with the bar, judiciary, and other civil justice stakeholders;
assist NJP's statewide administrative staff to address program-wide needs, ensure staff professional development,
respond to personnel related matters and grant compliance; collaborate with NJP advocacy coordinators to motivate
and engage in broad based advocacy on behalf of low income persons statewide; and, participate as a vital member of
NJP's statewide middle management team to promote and achieve NJP's equal justice mission. The Senior Attorney
is expected to ensure that program/office advocacy priorities are effectively addressed through high quality
representation, the use of multiple advocacy tools, including community education, outreach, and policy advocacy
consistent with client needs and program funding restrictions, and that staff attorneys maximize their work for the
greatest efficiency and benefit to the client community as a whole.
QUALIFICATIONS and SKILLS:
* Maturity and demonstrated commitment to serving low-income persons,
* Ability to work with a highly diverse group of mission-driven lawyers and staff with a range of substantive
law knowledge, experience and expertise
* Excellent communication skills and desire to work with stakeholders in the broader legal community on
meeting the civil legal needs of low income persons in King County
* Minimum of five years experience with evidence of exceptional prior relevant legal work, including a broad
range of litigation and advocacy experience.
* Demonstrated excellent analytical and legal writing skills
* Demonstrated leadership skills and the ability to effectively motivate others
* Good organization and time management skills
* Member of the Washington Bar or able to obtain membership through reciprocity
SALARY/BENEFITS: Salary is dependent on experience. NJP offers an attractive benefits package, including
medical, dental and disability coverage and a law school loan forgiveness program for eligible employees.
APPLICATIONS: Email cover letter, resume, references and writing sample by close of business June 26,
2009 Attn: Susan Encherman, Director of Administration: suee at nwjustice.org
The Northwest Justice Project is committed to a policy of equal opportunity in an environment free of barriers and discriminatory
practices for its client communities, Board and staff. NJP actively promotes mutual respect, acceptance, teamwork and productivity
among people who are diverse in work background, experience, race, color, national origin, sex, age, religious preference, marital status,
sexual orientation, sensory, mental or physical abilities, veteran status, or any other perceived differences. This policy strengthens the
program while reinforcing its commitment to basic fairness. People of color, people who identify as transgender, lesbian, gay, or
bisexual, and those with disabilities are strongly encouraged to apply. If you need an accommodation to apply, contact Susan
Encherman at the email above.


From bspiry at comcast.net  Thu Jun 18 00:13:14 2009
From: bspiry at comcast.net (Bill Spiry)
Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 17:13:14 -0700
Subject: [blindlaw] Bar accommodation
In-Reply-To: <4a397581.86c3f10a.7916.105d@mx.google.com>
References: <4a397581.86c3f10a.7916.105d@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <002c01c9efa9$935d5a50$ba180ef0$@net>

Excellent, congrats and good luck!  
I agree, as someone who has just gone through the LSAT, I concur with
Angie's assessment that there is much value in tapping into the experiences
of both current law students and practicing attorneys for insights to
prepare for this exam with blindness.  It was useful for me. The topics
should certainly relate to the law, but it would be unfortunate  if that
parameter excluded prospective law students from asking for this kind of
guidance.


-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Angie Matney
Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2009 4:00 PM
To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'
Subject: [blindlaw] Bar accommodation

It looks like I will be able to use a computer for the essay portion of the
test after all. I am very, very relieved by this development! 

 

As for topics of the list: I think that, no matter what other lists might be
out there, there will be cyclic discussions of the LSAT and the Bar on this
list. Had I mentioned my bar exam situation only on the law students list, I
would not have learned that people in Maryland and Minnesota have received
the accommodation I was seeking. 

 

Thank you all,

 

Angie

 

 

_______________________________________________
blindlaw mailing list
blindlaw at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
blindlaw:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/bspiry%40comcast.n
et



From k7uij at panix.com  Thu Jun 18 02:24:03 2009
From: k7uij at panix.com (Mike Freeman)
Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 19:24:03 -0700
Subject: [blindlaw] Behavior On This List
References: <4a358b99.1ac1f10a.0ed9.4fff@mx.google.com><AE65BAF30FEC46C087D9261D40BE70F6@labarre><20090616174102.GB37098@yumi.bluecherry.net>
	<839F18076C66C345BD1C0A4ACA67A1F60315BC20@dhsexcmsg12.intra.dhs.ca.gov>
Message-ID: <B892F489ADF3422F8C9FC405237DBA77@owner96190708e>

Yup; that's about like the sound of one hand clapping!

Mike

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ford, Tim (CDPH-OLS)" <Tim.Ford at cdph.ca.gov>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2009 6:46 AM
Subject: [blindlaw] Behavior On This List


Hi All,

I have changed the subject line on this string, since it is now on the 
topic of use, or perhaps mis-use, of this list.  Changing subject lines 
when a thread changes is one way we can all help make the list more user 
friendly, and will better allow use of the delete key.  Otherwise, we 
maintain the problem of the time it takes to have to read through the 
text of the note because the subject line is no longer on point.

Tight controls over the list does not strike me as the preferred first 
option, since that approach would make a lot of work for one or more 
folks that no doubt have better things to do with their free time!

Perhaps instead the lawyers on the list can set an example by ceasing to 
send notes when an exchange switches over to something that is either 
off topic for the list, or when unprofessional conduct is involved.  It 
is hard to maintain an argument alone.

Sincerely,
Tim Ford



-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] 
On Behalf Of T. Joseph Carter
Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 10:41 AM
To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied

Scott,

I truly hope that this will not be found necessary.  Those who are not 
practicing attorneys on this list for the most part appear to defer to 
those who are in matters of legal opinion, regardless of whether they 
are or ever will be law students.

I have little experience by which to judge your observation, having 
joined the list myself only upon considering a career in law.  Yet it 
seems to me the troubles you describe would almost invariably come from 
those who do not defer to those more qualified in the field.

If this list has never seen a student who believes him/herself to know 
everything, I'd be inclined to believe it is only by chance.
Granted, the probability is greatly reduced by the likelihood that such 
a person wouldn't last long in law school if they maintain such an 
outlook.  *grin*

Joseph

On Mon, Jun 15, 2009 at 12:40:21PM -0600, Scott C. LaBarre wrote:
> Greetings:
>
> It is absolutely unacceptable to call anyone or anyone's ideas "dumb"
> or any other such term!!  The next such eppisode of same will be met
> with immediate removal from this list.  It is also accurate to note
> that when we have had such troubles in the past, it almost always
> comes from list members who are not attorneys, legal professionals, or
> law students.  We are strongly considering the idea of  limiting this
> list to those in the legal profession or actively seeking admission 
> thereto.
>
> Scott C. LaBarre, Esq.
> President
> National Association of Blind Lawyers
>
> LaBarre Law Offices P.C.
> 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918
> Denver, Colorado 80222
> 303 504-5979 (voice)
> 303 757-3640 (fax)
> slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail)
> www.labarrelaw.com (website)
>
> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and
> privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you
> may not read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received
> this message in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or
> slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system.
> This message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic
> Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521.
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Angie Matney"
> <angie.matney at gmail.com>
> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 5:45 PM
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
>
>
>> Also, using my strategy will enable me to take my fully operational
>> computer with me for use in the evenings. I fully admit this is not
>> the cheapest way to go, but there is no call for you to be rude about
>> it. Simply don't do as I have suggested. Post your own ideas and
>> refrain from junior-high-school dialogue.
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org
>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Bryan Schulz
>> Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 6:51 PM
>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section
>> denied
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> DUMB!
>> buy another 2.5" laptop hard drive and a thin sata to usb enclosure.
>> then use casper to clone your drive to the second hard drive as it is
>> free for 30 days.
>> then uninstall everything you have to in order to comply with the
>> testing rules.
>> after the test, swap the hard drives as the new one will most likely
>> have much more capacity and you could then use the original smaller
>> drive in the usb enclosure for extra storage.
>> the new drive and enclosure will cost about $80.
>>
>> Bryan Schulz
>> The BEST Solution
>> www.best-acts.com
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Angie Matney"
>> <angie.matney at gmail.com>
>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 2:18 PM
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section
>> denied
>>
>>
>>> For those who are lucky enough to be able to use a laptop on the
>>> essays, I have a thought. If I am ultimately granted this
>>> accommodation, I expect the Board will ask me to wipe my computer
>>> clean. I believe that, instead of gutting my computer (and then
>>> worrying that I have inadvertently left something on there that
>>> shouldn't be there), I am going to buy a second netbook for use on
>>> the bar. A netbook costs around $400. I might buy one just like the
>>> one I am using now. I can always sell it at a discount after I'm
>>> done. (Then again, I might keep it and turn it into a linux
>>> machine...but that''s a topic of discussion for another list.)
>>> Current netbooks comply with the technical requirements that
>>> Virginia has for laptops. Also, the batter ycan last for an entire
>>> day of testing without needing to be recharged.
>>>
>>> This is not exactly the cheapest solution, but I believe it's what I
>>> will do it I need a clean computer.
>>>
>>> Angie
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>> for
>>> blindlaw:
>>>
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b.schulz%40
>> sbcglob
>> al.net
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindlaw:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie.matne
>> y%40gma
>> il.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindlaw:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/slabarre%40
>> labarrelaw.com
>>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/carter.tjose
> ph%40gmail.com

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From stiehm.law at juno.com  Thu Jun 18 12:54:12 2009
From: stiehm.law at juno.com (Patrick H. Stiehm)
Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 08:54:12 -0400
Subject: [blindlaw] Bar accommodation
Message-ID: <20090618.085412.456.0.stiehm.law@juno.com>

Dear Angie,

It is great to hear that your dragged the Bar Examiners of the
Commonwealth of Virginia, licking and screaming into the last quarter of
the 20th century.  Congratulations and best of luck on the test itself.

Patrick H. Stiehm
Stiehm Law Office
Alexandria, VA 22309
703-360-1089 (Voice)
703-935-8266 (Fax)


On Wed, 17 Jun 2009 19:00:13 -0400 "Angie Matney"
<angie.matney at gmail.com> writes:
> It looks like I will be able to use a computer for the essay portion 
> of the
> test after all. I am very, very relieved by this development! 
> 
>  
> 
> As for topics of the list: I think that, no matter what other lists 
> might be
> out there, there will be cyclic discussions of the LSAT and the Bar 
> on this
> list. Had I mentioned my bar exam situation only on the law students 
> list, I
> would not have learned that people in Maryland and Minnesota have 
> received
> the accommodation I was seeking. 
> 
>  
> 
> Thank you all,
> 
>  
> 
> Angie
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
> for blindlaw:
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stiehm.law%40ju
no.com
> 
> 
 
____________________________________________________________
Digital Photography - Click Now.
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/BLSrjpTDvmTfpvH8N8CTzQtojVS2GBHpjrZoSrg3pt6Xv2xSETKIMZhC5Re/


From stiehm.law at juno.com  Thu Jun 18 13:13:43 2009
From: stiehm.law at juno.com (Patrick H. Stiehm)
Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 09:13:43 -0400
Subject: [blindlaw] Bar accommodation
Message-ID: <20090618.091344.456.1.stiehm.law@juno.com>

Excuse me, I meant kicking and Screaming.

Patrick H. Stiehm
Stiehm Law Office
Alexandria, VA 22309
703-360-1089 (Voice)
703-935-8266 (Fax)
 
On Thu, 18 Jun 2009 08:54:12 -0400 "Patrick H. Stiehm"
<stiehm.law at juno.com> writes:
> Dear Angie,
> 
> It is great to hear that your dragged the Bar Examiners of the
> Commonwealth of Virginia, licking and screaming into the last 
> quarter of
> the 20th century.  Congratulations and best of luck on the test 
> itself.
> 
> Patrick H. Stiehm
> Stiehm Law Office
> Alexandria, VA 22309
> 703-360-1089 (Voice)
> 703-935-8266 (Fax)
> 
> 
> On Wed, 17 Jun 2009 19:00:13 -0400 "Angie Matney"
> <angie.matney at gmail.com> writes:
> > It looks like I will be able to use a computer for the essay 
> portion 
> > of the
> > test after all. I am very, very relieved by this development! 
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > As for topics of the list: I think that, no matter what other 
> lists 
> > might be
> > out there, there will be cyclic discussions of the LSAT and the 
> Bar 
> > on this
> > list. Had I mentioned my bar exam situation only on the law 
> students 
> > list, I
> > would not have learned that people in Maryland and Minnesota have 
> 
> > received
> > the accommodation I was seeking. 
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > Thank you all,
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > Angie
> > 
> >  
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > blindlaw mailing list
> > blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
> 
> > for blindlaw:
> >
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stiehm.law%40ju
> no.com
> > 
> > 
>  
> ____________________________________________________________
> Digital Photography - Click Now.
>
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/BLSrjpTDvmTfpvH8N8CTzQtojVS2G
BHpjrZoSrg3pt6Xv2xSETKIMZhC5Re/
> 
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
> for blindlaw:
>
://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stiehm.law%40juno.c
om
> 
> 
 


From angie.matney at gmail.com  Thu Jun 18 16:00:04 2009
From: angie.matney at gmail.com (Angie Matney)
Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 12:00:04 -0400
Subject: [blindlaw] Bar accommodation
In-Reply-To: <20090618.091344.456.1.stiehm.law@juno.com>
References: <20090618.091344.456.1.stiehm.law@juno.com>
Message-ID: <4a3a6485.02045a0a.4ad8.ffff9c4b@mx.google.com>

Hello Patrick,

Thanks. There was some misinformation concerning the capabilities of JAWS.
They apparently thought it had internal word-processing functions. Once this
was clarified, the Board was willing to work with me to figure out a way for
me to use a computer on the exam. Hopefully, this will make things easier
for the next blind person who wants to sit for the Virginia bar.

Best,

Angie



-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Patrick H. Stiehm
Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 9:14 AM
To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org
Cc: blindlaw at nfbnet.org
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Bar accommodation

Excuse me, I meant kicking and Screaming.

Patrick H. Stiehm
Stiehm Law Office
Alexandria, VA 22309
703-360-1089 (Voice)
703-935-8266 (Fax)
 
On Thu, 18 Jun 2009 08:54:12 -0400 "Patrick H. Stiehm"
<stiehm.law at juno.com> writes:
> Dear Angie,
> 
> It is great to hear that your dragged the Bar Examiners of the
> Commonwealth of Virginia, licking and screaming into the last 
> quarter of
> the 20th century.  Congratulations and best of luck on the test 
> itself.
> 
> Patrick H. Stiehm
> Stiehm Law Office
> Alexandria, VA 22309
> 703-360-1089 (Voice)
> 703-935-8266 (Fax)
> 
> 
> On Wed, 17 Jun 2009 19:00:13 -0400 "Angie Matney"
> <angie.matney at gmail.com> writes:
> > It looks like I will be able to use a computer for the essay 
> portion 
> > of the
> > test after all. I am very, very relieved by this development! 
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > As for topics of the list: I think that, no matter what other 
> lists 
> > might be
> > out there, there will be cyclic discussions of the LSAT and the 
> Bar 
> > on this
> > list. Had I mentioned my bar exam situation only on the law 
> students 
> > list, I
> > would not have learned that people in Maryland and Minnesota have 
> 
> > received
> > the accommodation I was seeking. 
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > Thank you all,
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > Angie
> > 
> >  
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > blindlaw mailing list
> > blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
> 
> > for blindlaw:
> >
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stiehm.law%40ju
> no.com
> > 
> > 
>  
> ____________________________________________________________
> Digital Photography - Click Now.
>
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/BLSrjpTDvmTfpvH8N8CTzQtojVS2G
BHpjrZoSrg3pt6Xv2xSETKIMZhC5Re/
> 
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
> for blindlaw:
>
://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stiehm.law%40juno.c
om
> 
> 
 

_______________________________________________
blindlaw mailing list
blindlaw at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
blindlaw:
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il.com



From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov  Thu Jun 18 16:36:39 2009
From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel)
Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 11:36:39 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] FW: Attorney Vacancies at the U.S. Department of Justice
Message-ID: <E771EAA0575B844C98712011AE73D7ED3ADA0A2C84@EDUPTCEXMB03.ed.gov>



________________________________
From: jobs-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:jobs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Maurer, Patricia
Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 12:28 PM
To: jobs at nfbnet.org
Subject: [Jobs] FW: Attorney Vacancies at the U.S. Department of Justice



________________________________
From: Hunter, Sue [mailto:Sue.Hunter at usdoj.gov]
Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 3:10 PM
To: nedy at wyjlaw.com; newmedia at ja.org; Neysas at dnfsb.gov; Maurer, Patricia; nijc at aol.com; nlove at opd.state.md.us; nmcconnell at jackscamp.com; noconnell at tabinc.org; noryrp at cox.net; nromulus at gmail.com; ntb at boglechang.com; nwpatton at law.stanford.edu; ocaaba at cox.net; omanager at lawyerscomm.org; palsd at hotmail.com; patel at fr.com; pchanster at yahoo.com; pchapman at koonz.com; pgrewal at daycasebeer.com; pkim at lordbissell.com; Maurer, Patricia; pmorrison at state.wv.us; poppy.johnston at unlv.edu; president at abaw.org
Subject: FW: Attorney Vacancies at the U.S. Department of Justice


To learn more about our attorneys and what they like most about working at DOJ, please visit our attorney profiles at, http://www.usdoj.gov/oarm/arm/profiles.htm, and the video clips of our attorneys and interns available at https://www.avuedigitalservices.com/ads/jobsatdojoarm/index.jsp

We encourage you to share this email with interested colleagues and peers. If you no longer wish to receive these periodic email announcements, please respond to this email address and ask to be removed from our mailing list. Thank you.

Current Department of Justice Attorney Vacancies

 *   DEPUTY CHIEF IMMIGRATION JUDGE EXECUTIVE OFFICE FOR IMMIGRATION REVIEW VACANCY ANNOUNCEMENT NUMBER: EOIR-09-0079 Applications received after July 6, 2009 will not be considered.<http://www.usdoj.gov/oarm/jobs/eoir-09-0079.htm>
Date posted: 06-15-2009
 *   ASSISTANT UNITED STATES ATTORNEY UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE CENTRAL DISTRICT OF CALIFORNIA 2009-1 Hiring is on a rolling basis as positions become available.<http://www.usdoj.gov/oarm/jobs/ausa-ca-2009-1.htm>
Date posted: 06-12-2009
 *   UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE DISTRICT OF ARIZONA 09-AZ-08 This vacancy will remain open until all positions are filled.<http://www.usdoj.gov/oarm/jobs/09-crm-az-08.htm>
Date posted: 06-12-2009
 *   UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE DISTRICT OF ARIZONA 09-AZ-07 This vacancy will remain open until all positions are filled.<http://www.usdoj.gov/oarm/jobs/09-crm-az-07.htm>
Date posted: 06-12-2009
 *   U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE CRIMINAL DIVISION OFFICE OF ENFORCEMENT OPERATIONS ASSOCIATE DIRECTOR (GS-15)09-CRM-OEO-020 OPEN GOVERNMENT WIDE Applications must be postmarked by June 18, 2009.<http://www.usdoj.gov/oarm/jobs/09-crm-oeo-020.htm>
Date posted: 06-12-2009
 *   EXPERIENCED ATTORNEY ADVISOR (GS-905-13/14/15) U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE ANTITRUST DIVISION FREEDOM OF INFORMATION ACT/PRIVACY ACT UNIT Applications must be received no later than July 3, 2009.<http://www.usdoj.gov/oarm/jobs/09-atr-foia-privacy.htm>
Date posted: 06-11-2009
 *   U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE DRUG ENFORCEMENT ADMINISTRATION OFFICE OF CHIEF COUNSEL DOMESTIC CRIMINAL LAW SECTION SUPERVISORY ATTORNEY/GS 15 Applications must be received by July 10, 2009.<http://www.usdoj.gov/oarm/jobs/09-dea-occ-domcrimelaw.htm>
Date posted: 06-11-2009
 *   U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE U.S. TRUSTEE'S OFFICE -- WICHITA, KS TRIAL ATTORNEY Applications must be postmarked by the closing date of June 26, 2009 and will be accepted up to five calendar days after the closing date.<http://www.usdoj.gov/oarm/jobs/09-ust-trialatty.htm>
Date posted: 06-11-2009
 *   COUNSEL TO THE DIRECTOR EXECUTIVE OFFICE FOR U.S. TRUSTEES WASHINGTON, DC ANNOUNCEMENT NUMBER: 09-23-14001 The closing date of this advertisement will be June 16, 2009.<http://www.usdoj.gov/oarm/jobs/09-ust-09-23-14001.htm>
Date posted: 06-10-2009
 *   U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE DRUG ENFORCEMENT ADMINISTRATION OFFICE OF CHIEF COUNSEL / ASSET FORFEITURE SECTION EXPERIENCED ATTORNEY / GS-12 to GS-15 Applications must be received by July 2, 2009.<http://www.usdoj.gov/oarm/jobs/09-dea-afs.htm>
Date posted: 06-09-2009
 *   U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE EXECUTIVE OFFICE FOR UNITED STATES ATTORNEYS EVALUATION AND REVIEW STAFF (EARS) SUPERVISORY ATTORNEY ADVISOR (ASSISTANT DIRECTOR), GS-0905-15 VACANCY ANNOUNCEMENT NO: 09-EOUSA-48 Closing date June 19, 2009.<http://www.usdoj.gov/oarm/jobs/09-eousa-48.htm>
Date posted: 06-08-2009
 *   TRIAL ATTORNEYS (GS-0905-15) U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE ANTITRUST DIVISION Applications must be received no later than July 2, 2009.<http://www.usdoj.gov/oarm/jobs/09-atr-e09-03-005.htm>
Date posted: 06-08-2009
 *   ATTORNEY ADVISOR EXECUTIVE OFFICE FOR IMMIGRATION REVIEW FALLS CHURCH, VA VACANCY ANNOUNCEMENT NUMBER: EOIR-09-0070 ALL APPLICATIONS MUST BE RECEIVED IN THE HUMAN RESOURCES OFFICE BY THE CLOSE OF BUSINESS ON: July 1, 2009.<http://www.usdoj.gov/oarm/jobs/eoir-09-0070.htm>
Date posted: 06-05-2009
 *   EXPERIENCED WHITE COLLAR TRIAL ATTORNEY (GS-0905-13/14/15)FRAUD SECTION CRIMINAL DIVISION U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE WASHINGTON, D.C. 09-CRM-FRD-017 Applications will be accepted until September 4, 2009.<http://www.usdoj.gov/oarm/jobs/09-crm-frd-017.htm>
Date posted: 06-05-2009
 *   U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE U.S. TRUSTEE'S OFFICE -- FRESNO, CA TRIAL ATTORNEY Applications must be postmarked by the closing date of June 12, 2009 and will be accepted up to five calendar days after the closing date.<http://www.usdoj.gov/oarm/jobs/09-ust-fresnoca.htm>
Date posted: 06-05-2009
 *   ASSISTANT UNITED STATES ATTORNEY UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE MIDDLE DISTRICT OF FLORIDA Solicitation for Ft. Myers Division Only Though the position will remain open until filled, interested applicants are encouraged to make their submissions on or before Friday, June 26, 2009.<http://www.usdoj.gov/oarm/jobs/09-usao-ftmyer.htm>
Date posted: 06-05-2009
 *   UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE NORTHERN DISTRICT OF ILLNOIS-CHICAGO. ILLINOIS PATRICK J. FITZGERALD, UNITED STATES ATTORNEY Open until filled.<http://www.usdoj.gov/oarm/jobs/09-usa-ndil-09-a.htm>
Date posted: 06-04-2009
 *   U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE DRUG ENFORCEMENT ADMINISTRATION OFFICE OF CHIEF COUNSEL / ADMINISTRATIVE LAW SECTION EXPERIENCED ATTORNEYS / GS-12 to GS-15 Applications must be received by July 1, 2009.<http://www.usdoj.gov/oarm/jobs/09-dea-adminlaw.htm>
Date posted: 06-02-2009
 *   SUPERVISORY ATTORNEY ADVISOR EXECUTIVE OFFICE FOR IMMIGRATION REVIEW FALLS CHURCH, VA VACANCY ANNOUNCEMENT NUMBER: EOIR-09-0067 ALL APPLICATIONS MUST BE RECEIVED IN THE HUMAN RESOURCES OFFICE BY THE CLOSE OF BUSINESS ON: June 22, 2009.<http://www.usdoj.gov/oarm/jobs/09-eoir-09-0067.htm>
Date posted: 06-02-2009
 *   ASSISTANT UNITED STATES ATTORNEY UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE NORTHERN DISTRICT OF MISSISSIPPI This position is open until filled. The initial cutoff for postmarked applications is June, 6 2009.<http://www.usdoj.gov/oarm/jobs/09-usao-noms.htm>
Date posted: 06-01-2009
 *   ASSISTANT UNITED STATES ATTORNEY UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE DISTRICT OF ALASKA 09-AK-006 Applications will be reviewed and acted upon on a rolling basis until the position is filled. No applications will be received after August 15, 2009.<http://www.usdoj.gov/oarm/jobs/09-usao-ak-006.htm>
Date posted: 06-01-2009
 *   FEDERAL BUREAU OF PRISONS CONSOLIDATED LEGAL CENTER FEDERAL MEDICAL CENTER LEXINGTON, KENTUCKY ATTORNEY-ADVISOR GS-905-12/13/14 This position is open until filled, but no later than June 11, 2009.<http://www.usdoj.gov/oarm/jobs/lexingtonattyvacancyannmay28.htm>
Date posted: 05-29-2009
 *   U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE OFFICE OF THE SOLICITOR GENERAL EXPERIENCED TRIAL ATTORNEY, GS-15 This announcement closes on 06/12/09.<http://www.usdoj.gov/oarm/jobs/09-osg-dc-ap.htm>
Date posted: 05-28-2009

The purpose of this email is to advise potential interested persons of employment opportunities at the Department of Justice. The Department of Justice cannot control further dissemination and/or posting of this information. Such posting and/or dissemination is not an endorsement by the Department of the organization or group disseminating and/or posting the information.

-------------- next part --------------
_______________________________________________
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From Tim.Ford at cdph.ca.gov  Thu Jun 18 16:42:37 2009
From: Tim.Ford at cdph.ca.gov (Ford, Tim (CDPH-OLS))
Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 09:42:37 -0700
Subject: [blindlaw] Request assistance in identifying a California law(s)
In-Reply-To: <10049EA4D38B40F7B7BB2917E6DDD6B4@PUTTPUTT>
References: <10049EA4D38B40F7B7BB2917E6DDD6B4@PUTTPUTT>
Message-ID: <839F18076C66C345BD1C0A4ACA67A1F60315BC43@dhsexcmsg12.intra.dhs.ca.gov>

Your case sounds like a good one for action by the California Department
of Fair Employment and Housing, the state agency that enforces the ADA
and the companion state laws, which tend to be stronger than the ADA.  I
would file a complaint with them.  Go to the web site at
www.dfeh.ca.gov.
 
Sincerely,
Tim Ford


-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
On Behalf Of Michael Groat
Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2009 3:38 PM
To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org
Subject: [blindlaw] Request assistance in identifying a California
law(s)

I am trying to identify is the California Law(s) that requires a company
to maintain reasonable accommodations after the company has made major
changes to the company computer systems.  The company supplied
reasonable accommodations, which included the screen reader JAWS (Job
Access With
Speech) in 2004.  Then in 2006 the company changed the company's
computer systems.  Which the changes the screen reader was only useable
for reading a very small segment of the programs and data.  My
peripheral sight has decreased so my dependency on a screen reader has
increased significantly.
After the changes the company has not supported the request for
reasonable accommodation of the screen reader being able to access all
of the company's
programs and data despite multiple requests for them to do so.   

I appreciate your assistance in indentifying the California Law(s) that
would be applicable.

 

I have read the ADA so it is the California law(s) that are left unread.
I have been unable to locate a website that lists the California laws.

 

I look forward to you response.

Thank you

Michael Groat

 

 

_______________________________________________
blindlaw mailing list
blindlaw at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
blindlaw:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tim.ford%40cdp
h.ca.gov


From craig.borne at dot.gov  Thu Jun 18 19:58:31 2009
From: craig.borne at dot.gov (craig.borne at dot.gov)
Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 15:58:31 -0400
Subject: [blindlaw] Request assistance in identifying a California law(s)
In-Reply-To: <839F18076C66C345BD1C0A4ACA67A1F60315BC43@dhsexcmsg12.intra.dhs.ca.gov>
References: <10049EA4D38B40F7B7BB2917E6DDD6B4@PUTTPUTT>
	<839F18076C66C345BD1C0A4ACA67A1F60315BC43@dhsexcmsg12.intra.dhs.ca.gov>
Message-ID: <61017FCC3706464B8ACB770A8038174E4CCECE@OSTMAIL03VS3.ad.dot.gov>

Michael,

You could also contact the regional office of the Equal Employment
Opportunity Commission (EEOC) in your area.  You can find the location
at www.eeoc.gov.  You might be able to file under the California laws
with the state Fair Employment and Housing Department and the federal
laws under Title I of the ADA with the EEOC.

Craig

Craig Borne
NHTSA/DOT
(202) 493-0627 
craig.borne at dot.gov
 

-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
On Behalf Of Ford, Tim (CDPH-OLS)
Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 12:43 PM
To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request assistance in identifying a California
law(s)

Your case sounds like a good one for action by the California Department
of Fair Employment and Housing, the state agency that enforces the ADA
and the companion state laws, which tend to be stronger than the ADA.  I
would file a complaint with them.  Go to the web site at
www.dfeh.ca.gov.
 
Sincerely,
Tim Ford


-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
On Behalf Of Michael Groat
Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2009 3:38 PM
To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org
Subject: [blindlaw] Request assistance in identifying a California
law(s)

I am trying to identify is the California Law(s) that requires a company
to maintain reasonable accommodations after the company has made major
changes to the company computer systems.  The company supplied
reasonable accommodations, which included the screen reader JAWS (Job
Access With
Speech) in 2004.  Then in 2006 the company changed the company's
computer systems.  Which the changes the screen reader was only useable
for reading a very small segment of the programs and data.  My
peripheral sight has decreased so my dependency on a screen reader has
increased significantly.
After the changes the company has not supported the request for
reasonable accommodation of the screen reader being able to access all
of the company's
programs and data despite multiple requests for them to do so.   

I appreciate your assistance in indentifying the California Law(s) that
would be applicable.

 

I have read the ADA so it is the California law(s) that are left unread.
I have been unable to locate a website that lists the California laws.

 

I look forward to you response.

Thank you

Michael Groat

 

 

_______________________________________________
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From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net  Fri Jun 19 07:27:52 2009
From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net)
Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 00:27:52 -0700
Subject: [blindlaw] ADA damages don't require intent in California ruling by
	state supreme court
Message-ID: <24DFD97534AE44CE91765BAAAFBD2161@spike>


----- Original Message ----- 
From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net 
Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 12:13 AM
Subject: ADA damages don't require intent in California ruling by state supreme court


    ADA Damages Suits Don't Require Intent, Calif. Supreme Court Rules

Mike McKee
The Recorder <http://www.law.com/jsp/ca/subscribe_intermediate.jsp>
June 12, 2009

Businesses that violate the Americans with Disabilities
Act<http://www.ada.gov/>,
even if unintentionally, can be sued for damages, the California Supreme
Court ruled unanimously on Thursday.

Justice Kathryn Mickle Werdegar concluded that was a reasonable
interpretation of the state Legislature's decision in 1992 to adopt Civil
Code §51(f) to amend the state's Unruh Civil Rights
Act<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unruh_Civil_Rights_Act>to include
violations of the ADA. While the ADA provides only injunctive
relief whether the harm was intentional or not, Section 52 of the Unruh Act
provides for damages of at least $4,000 or as much as three times the actual
harm.

"By incorporating the ADA into the Unruh Civil Rights Act, California's own
civil rights law covering public accommodations, which does provide for ...
a private damages action," Werdegar wrote, "the Legislature has afforded
this remedy to persons injured by a violation of the ADA."

A disabled man, Kenneth Munson, sued Del Taco after complaining that its
restaurant in Loma Linda, Calif., near San Bernardino, didn't provide
disabled parking or handicapped-accessible public toilets. Del Taco later
spent $75,000 on renovations.

Lambda Legal Defense and Education Fund <http://www.lambdalegal.org/>, which
filed an amicus curiae brief in the case, hailed the ruling.

"Real, reliable change for people with disabilities has been painfully
slow," staff attorney Tara Borelli of Los Angeles said in a prepared
statement. "But the high court's decision ... promises greater fairness in
California."

Munson was represented by Russell Handy, a lawyer with the San Marcos,
Calif.-based Center for Disability Access, while Del Taco was represented by
Newport Beach, Calif., attorney Lisa Wegner. Brad Seligman, of Berkeley's
Impact Fund, represented nine amici, including the California Council of the
Blind.

The ruling is *Munson v. Del Taco Inc.* , 09 C.D.O.S. 7253.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net  Fri Jun 19 08:27:26 2009
From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net)
Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 01:27:26 -0700
Subject: [blindlaw] ADA damages don't require intent in California ruling by
	state supreme court
Message-ID: <B3CA9B01803B42898E011989F9791A54@spike>

I'm not sure what happened to first posting so I am sending this again. 
Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal
1237 P Street
Fresno ca 93721
559-266-9237



    ADA Damages Suits Don't Require Intent, Calif. Supreme Court Rules

Mike McKee
The Recorder <http://www.law.com/jsp/ca/subscribe_intermediate.jsp>
June 12, 2009

Businesses that violate the Americans with Disabilities
Act<http://www.ada.gov/>,
even if unintentionally, can be sued for damages, the California Supreme
Court ruled unanimously on Thursday.

Justice Kathryn Mickle Werdegar concluded that was a reasonable
interpretation of the state Legislature's decision in 1992 to adopt Civil
Code §51(f) to amend the state's Unruh Civil Rights
Act<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unruh_Civil_Rights_Act>to include
violations of the ADA. While the ADA provides only injunctive
relief whether the harm was intentional or not, Section 52 of the Unruh Act
provides for damages of at least $4,000 or as much as three times the actual
harm.

"By incorporating the ADA into the Unruh Civil Rights Act, California's own
civil rights law covering public accommodations, which does provide for ...
a private damages action," Werdegar wrote, "the Legislature has afforded
this remedy to persons injured by a violation of the ADA."

A disabled man, Kenneth Munson, sued Del Taco after complaining that its
restaurant in Loma Linda, Calif., near San Bernardino, didn't provide
disabled parking or handicapped-accessible public toilets. Del Taco later
spent $75,000 on renovations.

Lambda Legal Defense and Education Fund <http://www.lambdalegal.org/>, which
filed an amicus curiae brief in the case, hailed the ruling.

"Real, reliable change for people with disabilities has been painfully
slow," staff attorney Tara Borelli of Los Angeles said in a prepared
statement. "But the high court's decision ... promises greater fairness in
California."

Munson was represented by Russell Handy, a lawyer with the San Marcos,
Calif.-based Center for Disability Access, while Del Taco was represented by
Newport Beach, Calif., attorney Lisa Wegner. Brad Seligman, of Berkeley's
Impact Fund, represented nine amici, including the California Council of the
Blind.

The ruling is *Munson v. Del Taco Inc.* , 09 C.D.O.S. 7253.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From benkarpilow at gmail.com  Fri Jun 19 18:50:29 2009
From: benkarpilow at gmail.com (Ben Karpilow)
Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 11:50:29 -0700
Subject: [blindlaw] Progress on obtaining electronic version of MBE
Message-ID: <01DD615A21B1440FAFF74A2171419910@bentar802wznlv>

To whom it may concern, After being misinformed that the national committee of bar examiners had sole jurisdiction to administer and grant accomodations for the MBE, I discovered that each state has jurisdiction to administer, and discretion to grant, accomodations to MBE takers within its jurisdiction. Here in California, at least one person has been provided with an electronic version of the MBE. Thus, although no state that I know of offers electronic versions of the MBE as a matter of course, it seems that, if one makes a compelling argument, it is possible to receive such an accomodation. I  will hear back regarding my appeal within a week or so. However, given the Supreme Court of California's recent liberal interpretation of the ADA (Thanks for the link,  Chuck), I'm hoping for the best. I share this with the group because, though there are many licensed attorneys among us, some of us are law students. I have been reading about at least one individual on this list's attempts to secure appropriate accomodations for the bar. That said,  I encourage anyone who would prefer an electronic exam over working with a sighted reader to pursue the matter.  The NCBE can confirm that each state has sole discretion to administer its own MBE.   Apparently many state bars are unaware of this, probably because the request is either made so infrequently, or not further pursued. I will apprise this group  of any developments. Regards,

Ben

 


Benjamin K. Karpilow
benkarpilow at gmail.com
707-548-8555

From jackchenonline at hotmail.com  Fri Jun 19 19:21:57 2009
From: jackchenonline at hotmail.com (Jack Chen)
Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 15:21:57 -0400
Subject: [blindlaw] Progress on obtaining electronic version of MBE
References: <01DD615A21B1440FAFF74A2171419910@bentar802wznlv>
Message-ID: <COL0-DAV25FDAB01726C07111C3720C33A0@phx.gbl>

Ben

Keep us all apprised.  I for one, if by chance I have to move to California 
for work, would have to take the bar again (ugh, not looking forward to 
doing that after NY and NJ).

Jack
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ben Karpilow" <benkarpilow at gmail.com>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 2:50 PM
Subject: [blindlaw] Progress on obtaining electronic version of MBE


> To whom it may concern, After being misinformed that the national 
> committee of bar examiners had sole jurisdiction to administer and grant 
> accomodations for the MBE, I discovered that each state has jurisdiction 
> to administer, and discretion to grant, accomodations to MBE takers within 
> its jurisdiction. Here in California, at least one person has been 
> provided with an electronic version of the MBE. Thus, although no state 
> that I know of offers electronic versions of the MBE as a matter of 
> course, it seems that, if one makes a compelling argument, it is possible 
> to receive such an accomodation. I  will hear back regarding my appeal 
> within a week or so. However, given the Supreme Court of California's 
> recent liberal interpretation of the ADA (Thanks for the link,  Chuck), 
> I'm hoping for the best. I share this with the group because, though there 
> are many licensed attorneys among us, some of us are law students. I have 
> been reading about at least one individual on this list's attempts to 
> secure appropriate accomodations for the bar. That said,  I encourage 
> anyone who would prefer an electronic exam over working with a sighted 
> reader to pursue the matter.  The NCBE can confirm that each state has 
> sole discretion to administer its own MBE.   Apparently many state bars 
> are unaware of this, probably because the request is either made so 
> infrequently, or not further pursued. I will apprise this group  of any 
> developments. Regards,
>
> Ben
>
>
>
>
> Benjamin K. Karpilow
> benkarpilow at gmail.com
> 707-548-8555
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jackchenonline%40hotmail.com
> 



From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov  Sat Jun 20 00:02:40 2009
From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel)
Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 19:02:40 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] California Trying E-books in high school
In-Reply-To: <022301c9ee00$a868f030$f93ad090$@com>
Message-ID: <E771EAA0575B844C98712011AE73D7ED3ADA0A2CB6@EDUPTCEXMB03.ed.gov>

Mark:

I work for the U.S. Department of Education Office for Civil Rights.  We enforce Section 504 of the Rehab Act and Title II of the ADA with respect to public entities in the education area.  I'd be happy to discuss any particular questions you have with respect to the application of those two laws and access to information.  Please send me an e-mail off list to noel.nightingale at ed.gov.

Noel Nightingale
 

-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Mark Stimson
Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 2:32 PM
To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] California Trying E-books in high school

This is very interesting, thanks for the info.  I do a lot of work on accessibility of electronic documents (and Web sites) in California; not as a lawyer but as a field expert usually brought in after a settlement.  If the E-Books are formatted correctly, this E-Book roll out can be extremely beneficial for students and teachers with visual impairments.  However, so often publishers are either unaware of federal and state accessibility requirements, or implement only the minimal necessities.  Is there anyone out there that has some experience working on law involving the accessibility of electronic information?  I joined this group recently to learn more about the legal side of accessibility.

Best regards, Mark

Mark Stimson, Ph.D.
Document Accessibility Expert
www.DocumentAccessibility.com
www.AccessnIgenuity.com 

-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Robert Jaquiss
Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 5:04 AM
To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
Subject: [blindlaw] California Trying E-books in high school
Importance: High

Hello LIst:

     I saw an article mentioning that California is going to roll out E-books for high school. Doing some research, I found a "fact sheet" on the governor's page. The link to it is below.

http://gov.ca.gov/index.php?/fact-sheet/12455/

Regards,

Robert Jaquiss
_______________________________________________
blindlaw mailing list
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http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
blindlaw:
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nuity.com

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From stephanie_enyart at yahoo.com  Sat Jun 20 00:46:03 2009
From: stephanie_enyart at yahoo.com (Stephanie Enyart)
Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 17:46:03 -0700
Subject: [blindlaw] Progress on obtaining electronic version of MBE
In-Reply-To: <COL0-DAV25FDAB01726C07111C3720C33A0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <A422686E8DB24DEB9F6A19B506EBFAF4@DF5R2QD1>

Jack,
If you're already licensed to practice in NY and NJ, or for other states, I
am happy to share the good news -- you won't take the MBE again. In
California you will still have a multiple day bar exam California requires
an essay section and performance tests for lawyers from other states. The
most common accommodation for blind lawyers is to get double time and the
use of a computer equipped with assistive software (which divides this
lawyer's test into 4 consecutive 6-hour test days).

Stephanie 

-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Jack Chen
Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 12:22 PM
To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Progress on obtaining electronic version of MBE

Ben

Keep us all apprised.  I for one, if by chance I have to move to California 
for work, would have to take the bar again (ugh, not looking forward to 
doing that after NY and NJ).

Jack
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ben Karpilow" <benkarpilow at gmail.com>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 2:50 PM
Subject: [blindlaw] Progress on obtaining electronic version of MBE


> To whom it may concern, After being misinformed that the national 
> committee of bar examiners had sole jurisdiction to administer and grant 
> accomodations for the MBE, I discovered that each state has jurisdiction 
> to administer, and discretion to grant, accomodations to MBE takers within

> its jurisdiction. Here in California, at least one person has been 
> provided with an electronic version of the MBE. Thus, although no state 
> that I know of offers electronic versions of the MBE as a matter of 
> course, it seems that, if one makes a compelling argument, it is possible 
> to receive such an accomodation. I  will hear back regarding my appeal 
> within a week or so. However, given the Supreme Court of California's 
> recent liberal interpretation of the ADA (Thanks for the link,  Chuck), 
> I'm hoping for the best. I share this with the group because, though there

> are many licensed attorneys among us, some of us are law students. I have 
> been reading about at least one individual on this list's attempts to 
> secure appropriate accomodations for the bar. That said,  I encourage 
> anyone who would prefer an electronic exam over working with a sighted 
> reader to pursue the matter.  The NCBE can confirm that each state has 
> sole discretion to administer its own MBE.   Apparently many state bars 
> are unaware of this, probably because the request is either made so 
> infrequently, or not further pursued. I will apprise this group  of any 
> developments. Regards,
>
> Ben
>
>
>
>
> Benjamin K. Karpilow
> benkarpilow at gmail.com
> 707-548-8555
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jackchenonline%40h
otmail.com
> 


_______________________________________________
blindlaw mailing list
blindlaw at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
blindlaw:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stephanie_enyart%4
0yahoo.com


From jsorozco at gmail.com  Sat Jun 20 20:37:06 2009
From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco)
Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2009 16:37:06 -0400
Subject: [blindlaw] O/T Trademarks
Message-ID: <FC0D4BB458214FEEA50BF858DB1F5B22@Rufus>

Hello,

Can someone briefly explain the nature of trademarks?  I have a series of
services I want to offer, and I'd like to know if an application would need
to be drafted for each individual service or whether an application can be
submitted for the whole series as long as they are being issued from the
same business.  Seeing as how the question is not exactly blindness-related,
please e-mail me off-list so as not to clutter the list.  Thank you in
advance.

Joe Orozco

"A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the
crowd."--Max Lucado
 

__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 4174 (20090620) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com
 



From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net  Mon Jun 22 08:37:34 2009
From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net)
Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2009 01:37:34 -0700
Subject: [blindlaw] U.S. EEoc votes to revise rules to conform to ADA
Message-ID: <8958DA4CB6814000B6C5DCF8400C6301@spike>

Press Release: Commission votes to revise rules to conform to the ADA
Amendments Act
Commission Votes to Revise Rules to Conform to ADA Amendments Act
The U.S. Equal Employment Opportunity Commission
PRESS RELEASE
6-17-09
COMMISSION VOTES TO REVISE RULES TO CONFORM TO ADA AMENDMENTS ACT
New Regulations Would Make it Easier for People to Establish Disability Under ADA
WASHINGTON ? The U.S. Equal Employment Opportunity Commission (EEOC) voted today to revise its regulations to conform to changes made by the ADA Amendments Act (ADAAA) of 2008, which would make it easier for an individual seeking protection under the ADA to establish that he or she has a disability.
The Commission voted 2-1 to adopt the rules changes, at a public meeting this morning at the agency's Washington headquarters. The five-member body has two vacancies.
The rules changes approved today represent an initial stage in the regulatory process and must next go to the Office of Management and Budget for review, and to federal agencies pursuant to Executive Order 12067, without public comment.
In approving these proposed regulations, the EEOC today is taking a
significant step toward returning the ADA to the broad and strong civil rights statute that Congress originally intended it to be, said EEOC Acting Chairman Stuart J. Ishimaru. The proposed regulations will permit individuals with
disabilities to participate to the fullest extent possible in the American workplace.
Acting EEOC Vice Chair Christine M. Griffin said, "Today's vote is historic. These regulations will serve to shift the focus of the courts from further narrowing the definition of disability and putting it back to where Congress intended when the ADA was enacted in 1990. Courts should now focus on whether discrimination based on disability is occurring in the workplace. The protections afforded by the ADA AA and these new regulations are important for all workers including our returning wounded warriors who certainly deserve the
right to re-enter a workforce free of discrimination.
The Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA), an antidiscrimination statute, was signed into law in July 1990. The EEOC is responsible for enforcing Title I of the ADA, which prohibits employment discrimination against individuals with disabilities. The statute requires employers to make reasonable accommodations to employees and job applicants with disabilities defined as people with mental or physical impairments that substantially limit a major life activity,
persons with a record of a disability, or who, while not actually disabled, are regarded as disabled.
The ADA Amendments Act, which went into effect Jan. 1, 2009, makes important changes to the definition of the term "disability" by rejecting the holdings in several Supreme Court decisions and portions of EEOC's prior ADA regulations.
The effect of these changes is to make it easier for an individual seeking protection under the ADA to establish that he or she has a disability as defined by the ADA. The ADAAA emphasizes that the definition of disability should be construed in favor of broad coverage of individuals to the maximum extent permitted by the terms of the ADA and generally shall not require extensive analysis.
The ADAAA also states that Congress expects the EEOC to revise its regulations to conform to changes made by Act, and expressly authorizes the EEOC to do so.
The EEOC is responsible for enforcing federal laws prohibiting employment discrimination. Further information about the EEOC is available on its web site at 
www.eeoc.gov<http://www.eeoc    

From jweisberg at screncilaw.com  Mon Jun 22 12:57:47 2009
From: jweisberg at screncilaw.com (James Weisberg)
Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2009 08:57:47 -0400
Subject: [blindlaw] Progress on obtaining electronic version of MBE
In-Reply-To: <A422686E8DB24DEB9F6A19B506EBFAF4@DF5R2QD1>
References: <COL0-DAV25FDAB01726C07111C3720C33A0@phx.gbl>
	<A422686E8DB24DEB9F6A19B506EBFAF4@DF5R2QD1>
Message-ID: <FC50B49ED94B8A45A9AA3CE6D096CAED1F30E7@2K3FS1.screnci.local>

I believe the MBE only transfers for two years after the year of the
score.  After that one must suffer through it again no matter how many
times one passes.  Did they change this??

James W. Weisberg, Esq.
Law Office of Stephen W. Screnci, P.A.
2200 N.W. Boca Raton Blvd., Ste. 210
Boca Raton, Florida  33431
V:  (561) 300-3390
F:  (561) 300-3391
Email:  JWeisberg at screncilaw.com

This message contains information which may be confidential and
privileged. Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for
the addressee), you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message
or any information contained in this message. If you have received this
message in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete
the message from your system.

-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
On Behalf Of Stephanie Enyart
Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 8:46 PM
To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Progress on obtaining electronic version of MBE

Jack,
If you're already licensed to practice in NY and NJ, or for other
states, I
am happy to share the good news -- you won't take the MBE again. In
California you will still have a multiple day bar exam California
requires
an essay section and performance tests for lawyers from other states.
The
most common accommodation for blind lawyers is to get double time and
the
use of a computer equipped with assistive software (which divides this
lawyer's test into 4 consecutive 6-hour test days).

Stephanie 

-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
On
Behalf Of Jack Chen
Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 12:22 PM
To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Progress on obtaining electronic version of MBE

Ben

Keep us all apprised.  I for one, if by chance I have to move to
California 
for work, would have to take the bar again (ugh, not looking forward to 
doing that after NY and NJ).

Jack
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ben Karpilow" <benkarpilow at gmail.com>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 2:50 PM
Subject: [blindlaw] Progress on obtaining electronic version of MBE


> To whom it may concern, After being misinformed that the national 
> committee of bar examiners had sole jurisdiction to administer and
grant 
> accomodations for the MBE, I discovered that each state has
jurisdiction 
> to administer, and discretion to grant, accomodations to MBE takers
within

> its jurisdiction. Here in California, at least one person has been 
> provided with an electronic version of the MBE. Thus, although no
state 
> that I know of offers electronic versions of the MBE as a matter of 
> course, it seems that, if one makes a compelling argument, it is
possible 
> to receive such an accomodation. I  will hear back regarding my appeal

> within a week or so. However, given the Supreme Court of California's 
> recent liberal interpretation of the ADA (Thanks for the link,
Chuck), 
> I'm hoping for the best. I share this with the group because, though
there

> are many licensed attorneys among us, some of us are law students. I
have 
> been reading about at least one individual on this list's attempts to 
> secure appropriate accomodations for the bar. That said,  I encourage 
> anyone who would prefer an electronic exam over working with a sighted

> reader to pursue the matter.  The NCBE can confirm that each state has

> sole discretion to administer its own MBE.   Apparently many state
bars 
> are unaware of this, probably because the request is either made so 
> infrequently, or not further pursued. I will apprise this group  of
any 
> developments. Regards,
>
> Ben
>
>
>
>
> Benjamin K. Karpilow
> benkarpilow at gmail.com
> 707-548-8555
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jackchenonline
%40h
otmail.com
> 


_______________________________________________
blindlaw mailing list
blindlaw at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
blindlaw:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stephanie_enya
rt%4
0yahoo.com

_______________________________________________
blindlaw mailing list
blindlaw at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
blindlaw:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jweisberg%40sc
rencilaw.com
 

__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus
signature database 4177 (20090622) __________

The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.

http://www.eset.com
 
 

__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus
signature database 4177 (20090622) __________

The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.

http://www.eset.com
 


From Bennett.Prows at HHS.GOV  Mon Jun 22 16:53:17 2009
From: Bennett.Prows at HHS.GOV (Prows, Bennett (HHS/OCR))
Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2009 12:53:17 -0400
Subject: [blindlaw] HHS Secretary Statement on Olmstead Anniversary
Message-ID: <9CDA99CD650C5544ACEADDB63CCD70D1016DF61B@AVN3VS032.ees.hhs.gov>

 FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
Contact:  HHS Press Office

Monday, June 22, 2009
(202) 690-6343

 

Statement by HHS Secretary Kathleen Sebelius

On the 10th Anniversary of the 

U.S. Supreme Court Decision Olmstead v. L.C.

 

 

HHS joins President Obama in commemorating a significant anniversary in
the civil rights movement for persons with disabilities.  Ten years ago
today, the United States Supreme Court issued its landmark decision in
Olmstead v. L.C. recognizing that "unjustified institutional isolation
of persons with disabilities is a form of discrimination" under the
Americans with Disabilities Act.  

 

To underscore the importance of the Olmstead decision and continue to
affirm our commitment to addressing isolation and discrimination against
people with disabilities that still exists today, President Obama has
designated this as a "Year of Community Living." I recognize that to put
an end to injustice and carry the directive of the Olmstead decision
into all programs of the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS),
we must create new partnerships.  And so, today, we invite all of our
public and private partners -- other federal agencies, states,
consumers, advocates, providers and others to join us in embracing the
Supreme Court's vision of equal opportunity and an end to unjustified
institutionalization for people with disabilities and chronic illnesses
and older Americans. 

 

To begin this "Year of Community Living," agencies within my department
will undertake the task of aggressively addressing barriers that prevent
some Americans with disabilities from enjoying a meaningful life as part
of their community.  I have asked the Administration on Aging (AoA), the
Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services (CMS), the Office for Civil
Rights, the Office of the Assistant Secretary for Planning and
Evaluation, and the Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services
Administration to form a HHS Coordinating Council, which will be led by
the Office on Disability. These agencies, with the support of the
department, will work together to put in place solutions that address
barriers to community living for individuals with disabilities and to
give people more control over their lives and the supports they need.  

 

As a first step, CMS will engage the public in making meaningful
regulatory reforms to the home and community-based waiver program.  An
"Advanced Notice of Proposed Rulemaking" was published in the Federal
Register today inviting public input on proposed changes to current
regulations giving states greater flexibility to serve people based on
their individual needs rather than on diagnosis.  

 

In addition, CMS and AoA are making grant funds available to states to
strengthen and expand HHS' Aging and Disability Resource Center Programs
(ADRCs).  Under this Initiative, I am encouraging collaboration by
requiring that ADRCs partner with all state agencies involved in serving
populations with disabilities, as well as the Centers for Independent
Living.  The Centers for Independent Living have an important role to
play at the community level in promoting independent living skills
throughout ADRCs.

 

- More -

- 2 -

 

HHS' Community Living Initiative will include partnerships with other
federal agencies and the public.  As the President announced earlier
today, the Department of Housing and Urban Development (HUD) will make
1,000 housing vouchers available for individuals with disabilities
transitioning from institutions to the community targeting States
operating Money Follows the Person Demonstration programs.  HUD will
award an additional 3,000 housing vouchers to serve non-elderly people
with disabilities and encourage Public Housing Authorities to form
working relationships with state Medicaid agencies interested in
addressing community living needs of beneficiaries.  While this is a
good start, this announcement is only the beginning of the collaboration
between the HHS and HUD during the "Year of Community Living."   

 

The HHS Office for Civil Rights is enhancing its partnership with the
Department of Justice's Civil Rights Division to ensure vigorous
enforcement of the Americans with Disabilities Act and the Olmstead
decision.  This partnership will maximize the effectiveness of federal
leadership in promoting the civil right of community living and setting
forth the Administration's position in federal courts.

 

To carry out the President's commitment to open government, we are
committed to giving Americans opportunities to participate in
policymaking to provide the benefit of collective expertise and
information.  In keeping with this mandate, we will reach out to the
public as partners in our Community Living Initiative. Throughout this
"Year of Community Living," HHS will hold listening sessions giving
stakeholders an opportunity to come together for a common purpose:
overcoming barriers to community-based living for people with
disabilities and the elderly. These forums will help us craft the agenda
to improve federal programs and better support the efforts of state and
local government. 

 

We look forward to this new era of partnership, innovation and
commitment to the Olmstead decision.  We are deeply committed to taking
bold new steps -- during this "Year of Community Living" and into the
future.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

###

 

 

 

Note: All HHS press releases, fact sheets and other press materials are
available at http://www.hhs.gov/news.

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From Ronza.Othman at dhs.gov  Wed Jun 24 14:45:48 2009
From: Ronza.Othman at dhs.gov (Othman, Ronza)
Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 10:45:48 -0400
Subject: [blindlaw] Vacancy Announcements for CRCL Programs Division and HQ
	EEO
Message-ID: <74096FB4D17ADA49A21F9BED9B9A33D801634207@ZAU1UG-0308.DHSNET.DS1.DHS>

Hello,

 

Please find vacancy announcements for several different positions with
the Department of Homeland Security Office for Civil Rights and Civil
Liberties below.  Several of these are in my unit (Engagement), and
several others are in the Equal Employment Opportunities side of the
office.  Please let me know if you have any questions.  Please also let
me know if you decide to apply for a position so that I can submit your
name as a referral.  We plan to fill quite a number of positions with
these announcements.

 

 

 

DHS CRCL Programs Division has openings for Program Analysts (Outreach
and Engagement) open on USA Jobs.  The position sensitivity levels are
Secret and TS/SCI.  The vacancy announcements close on July 6, 2009.
Below are links to the vacancy announcements.

 

FS-265161DE-SW09
<http://jobview.usajobs.gov/GetJob.aspx?OPMControl=1591262> 

 

FS-265161MP-SW09
<http://jobview.usajobs.gov/GetJob.aspx?OPMControl=1591288> 

 

FS-265156DE-SW09
<http://jobview.usajobs.gov/GetJob.aspx?OPMControl=1591647> 

 

FS-265156MP-SW09
<http://jobview.usajobs.gov/GetJob.aspx?OPMControl=1591666> 

 

HQ EEO Programs has an opening for a Staff Assistant and an Equal
Employment Specialist open on USA Jobs.  The vacancy announcements close
July 2, 2009 and July 6, 2009.  Below are links to the vacancy
announcements.

 

FS262383-NMH 09
<http://jobview.usajobs.gov/GetJob.aspx?JobID=81466441&jbf574=HS*&fedemp
=N&fedpub=Y&vw=d&re=0&caller=basic.aspx&pg=1&q=FS262383&AVSDM=2009-06-19
+00:03:00&rc=2&TabNum=6>
<http://jobsearch.usajobs.gov/getjob.asp?JobID=80512767&brd=3876&AVSDM=2
009-04-20+00:03:01&q=FS251382&sort=rv&vw=d&Logo=0&FedPub=Y&FedEmp=N&SUBM
IT1.x=73&SUBMIT1.y=13&ss=0&TabNum=6&rc=2> 

 

FS-263016DE AY09
<http://jobview.usajobs.gov/GetJob.aspx?JobID=81416427&JobTitle=Equal+Em
ployment+Specialist&sort=rv&vw=d&brd=3876&ss=0&FedEmp=N&FedPub=Y&q=26301
6&AVSDM=2009-06-18+14%3a05%3a00> 

 

FS-263016MP AY09
<http://jobview.usajobs.gov/GetJob.aspx?JobID=81416821&JobTitle=Equal+Em
ployment+Specialist&sort=rv&vw=d&brd=3876&ss=0&FedEmp=Y&FedPub=Y&q=26331
2&AVSDM=2009-06-18+14%3a15%3a00> 

 

 

 

Ronza M. Othman, Esq.
Policy Advisor
Office for Civil Rights & Civil Liberties
U.S. Department of Homeland Security
(202) 357-8517 (office)

(202) 436-4437 (cell) 
ronza.othman at dhs.gov <mailto:ronza.othman at dhs.gov> 
www.dhs.gov/civilliberties <http://www.dhs.gov/civilliberties> 

This message may contain agency deliberative communications, privacy
information or other information that may be privileged and exempt from
disclosure outside the agency or to the public.  Please consult with the
Department of Homeland Security, Office for Civil Rights and Civil
Liberties and the Office of General Counsel before disclosing any
information contained in this email.

 

 


From rjaquiss at earthlink.net  Wed Jun 24 14:59:38 2009
From: rjaquiss at earthlink.net (Robert Jaquiss)
Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 09:59:38 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] Interesting Supreme Court Decision: Is this useful to us?
Message-ID: <86A2C10DDE344F59BF3B629BB822EE71@D3DTZP41>

Hello List:

     I thought this would be of interest. The homeschool group has been discussing:
Forest Grove School District v. T.A., 08-305.

I used the above line in google and found an assortment of links pertaining to the case. The U.S. Supreme court's decision can be found below. Basically, Forest Grove Schools have to reimburse parents for the cost of tuition for sending their disabled child to a private school. This even though the parents did not get any special ed from the school.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/08-305.ZS.html 

Regards,

Robert Jaquiss


From slabarre at labarrelaw.com  Thu Jun 25 08:30:57 2009
From: slabarre at labarrelaw.com (Scott C. LaBarre)
Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 03:30:57 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] message regarding what to PAC for Convention
Message-ID: <auto-000104815612@mailfront1.g2host.com>

Greetings Fellow Federationists:

As you are getting ready for Convention, you may 
be wondering what to PAC.  Well, the answer is 
your check book or at least the account and 
routing numbers to your bank account.  The PAC, 
or the Preauthorized Contribution Program, is one 
of the major fundraisers for our 
Federation.  Each year we bring in about 
$360,000.00 to the organization.  It is the 
program through  which we can make easy, monthly 
donations to our national treasury.  These 
general funds go to support our scholarship 
program, our legal advocacy, our public education 
campaigns, and more.  A person can give as little 
as $5.00 a month or more to the Program.  All we 
need is a bank account from which we can withdraw 
money.  We need your bank's name, bank account 
number, and the bank's national routing 
number.  Your bank can give you all of this 
information with one simple phone call.  However, 
it would be best to get a voided check from you 
because that document has all the info we 
need.  So, just throw that check book in your brief case and come ahead!

Individuals aren't the only ones who can 
give.  Any affiliate, chapter, division, or 
Federation group can get on the Program as long 
as you have a bank account, of course.  We 
can  take donations  from savings accounts as 
long as the account permits external withdraws 
and you give the information noted above.  Again, 
we will need your bank's name, your account 
number, and the bank's national, also known as ABA, routing number.

As usual, We will be running a number of contests 
at Convention.  For the NFB affiliate that has 
the most number of people/entities either start a 
new pledge or increase an existing one,, we will 
award the PAC Rat.  The division with the most 
activity will receive the PAC Mule.  At the 
national board meeting, I will be awarding 
special prizes to the state affiliates that have 
had the largest percentage increase over the last 
year, one award will go to a large affiliate and 
another to a smaller affiliate.

Additionally, we will hold a cash drawing at the 
end of convention for two categories of people, 
those who start a new pledge and those who 
increase a pledge.  The individual whose name is 
drawn will receive $150.00 in cash.  There will 
be two drawings, one for the new pledges and one 
for the increases.  However, if we reach our 
convention goal of increasing annualized PAC 
giving to $400,000.00 or more, the cash prizes will increase to $300.00.

I look forward to seeing many of you at 
convention.  For those who can't come, I look 
forward to your participation through other 
means.  For example, I can email you a PAC form 
if you just shoot me a message at the below email.

     Scott C. LaBarre, Esq.
Chairman, PAC Plan Committee

LaBarre Law Offices P.C.
1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918
Denver, Colorado 80222
303 504-5979 (voice)
303 757-3640 (fax)
<mailto:slabarre at labarrelaw.com>slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail)
<http://www.labarrelaw.com>www.labarrelaw.com (website)

CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain 
confidential and privileged information. If you 
are not the designated recipient, you may not 
read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If 
you received this message in error, please notify 
the sender at 303) 504-5979 or 
<mailto:slabarre at labarrelaw.com>slabarre at labarrelaw.com, 
and destroy and delete it from your system. This 
message and any attachments are covered by the 
Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521.




From JFreeh at nfb.org  Thu Jun 25 20:25:15 2009
From: JFreeh at nfb.org (Freeh,
	Jessica)
Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 15:25:15 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] National Federation of the Blind and American Council of
 the Blind File Discrimination Suit Against Arizona State University
Message-ID: <auto-000104933006@mailfront1.g2host.com>



FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE


CONTACT:

Chris Danielsen

Director of Public Relations

National Federation of the Blind

(410) 659-9314, extension 2330

(410) 262-1281 (Cell)

cdanielsen at nfb.org





National Federation of the Blind and American Council of the Blind
File Discrimination Suit Against Arizona State University





University’s Amazon Kindle DX Pilot Program Discriminates Against the Blind

Baltimore, Maryland (June 25, 2009): The National 
Federation of the Blind (NFB) and the American 
Council of the Blind (ACB) filed suit today 
against Arizona State University (ASU) to prevent 
the university from deploying Amazon’s Kindle DX 
electronic reading device as a means of 
distributing electronic textbooks to its students 
because the device cannot be used by blind 
students.  Darrell Shandrow, a blind ASU student, 
is also a named plaintiff in the action.  The 
Kindle DX features text-to-speech technology that 
can read textbooks aloud to blind students.  The 
menus of the device are not accessible to the 
blind, however, making it impossible for a blind 
user to purchase books from Amazon’s Kindle 
store, select a book to read, activate the 
text-to-speech feature, and use the advanced 
reading functions available on the Kindle DX.  In 
addition to ASU, five other institutions of 
higher education are deploying the Kindle DX as 
part of a pilot project to assess the role of 
electronic textbooks and reading devices in the 
classroom.  The NFB and ACB have also filed 
complaints with the Office for Civil Rights of 
the U.S. Department of Education and the Civil 
Rights Division of the U.S. Department of 
Justice, asking for investigations of these five 
institutions, which are: Case Western Reserve 
University, the Darden School of Business at the 
University of Virginia, Pace University, 
Princeton University, and Reed College.  The 
lawsuit and complaints allege violations of the 
Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA) and the Rehabilitation Act of 1973.



Dr. Marc Maurer, President of the National 
Federation of the Blind, said: “Given the 
highly-advanced technology involved, there is no 
good reason that Amazon’s Kindle DX device should 
be inaccessible to blind students.  Amazon could 
have used the same text-to-speech technology that 
reads e-books on the device aloud to make its 
menus accessible to the blind, but it chose not 
to do so.  Worse yet, six American higher 
education institutions that are subject to 
federal laws requiring that they not discriminate 
against students with disabilities plan to deploy 
this device, even though they know that it cannot 
be used by blind students.  The National 
Federation of the Blind will not tolerate this 
unconscionable discrimination against and callous 
indifference to the right of blind students to 
receive an equal education.  We hope that this 
situation can be rectified in a manner that 
allows this exciting new reading technology to be 
made available to blind and sighted students alike.”



Darrell Shandrow, a blind student pursuing a 
degree in journalism at ASU, said: “Not having 
access to the advanced reading features of the 
Kindle DX­including the ability to download books 
and course materials, add my own bookmarks and 
notes, and look up supplemental information 
instantly on the Internet when I encounter it in 
my reading­will lock me out of this new 
technology and put me and other blind students at 
a competitive disadvantage relative to our 
sighted peers.  While my peers will have instant 
access to their course materials in electronic 
form, I will still have to wait weeks or months 
for accessible texts to be prepared for me, and 
these texts will not provide the access and 
features available to other students.  That is 
why I am standing up for myself and with other 
blind Americans to end this blatant discrimination.”





###






From roddj12 at hotmail.com  Fri Jun 26 02:29:50 2009
From: roddj12 at hotmail.com (Rod Alcidonis)
Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 22:29:50 -0400
Subject: [blindlaw] National Federation of the Blind and American
	Council of the Blind File Discrimination Suit Against Arizona
	State University
References: <auto-000104933006@mailfront1.g2host.com>
Message-ID: <BAY105-DAV109415444343C6F556DC7EBB350@phx.gbl>

Oh my God, my dream comes true. This is what I have been dreaming for a long 
time -- the time when the NFB and ACB would agree to disagree when needed 
and act in concert when it is necessary. This is, in the best interest of 
the blind of this country. Way to go!

I could not be happier since this important issue is being litigated by both 
organizations.

Rod Alcidonis, J.D.
C. 718-704-4651
roddj12 at hotmail.com

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Freeh,Jessica (by way of David Andrews <dandrews at visi.com>)" 
<JFreeh at nfb.org>
To: <david.andrews at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 4:25 PM
Subject: [blindlaw] National Federation of the Blind and American Council of 
the Blind File Discrimination Suit Against Arizona State University




FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE


CONTACT:

Chris Danielsen

Director of Public Relations

National Federation of the Blind

(410) 659-9314, extension 2330

(410) 262-1281 (Cell)

cdanielsen at nfb.org





National Federation of the Blind and American Council of the Blind
File Discrimination Suit Against Arizona State University





University's Amazon Kindle DX Pilot Program Discriminates Against the Blind

Baltimore, Maryland (June 25, 2009): The National
Federation of the Blind (NFB) and the American
Council of the Blind (ACB) filed suit today
against Arizona State University (ASU) to prevent
the university from deploying Amazon's Kindle DX
electronic reading device as a means of
distributing electronic textbooks to its students
because the device cannot be used by blind
students.  Darrell Shandrow, a blind ASU student,
is also a named plaintiff in the action.  The
Kindle DX features text-to-speech technology that
can read textbooks aloud to blind students.  The
menus of the device are not accessible to the
blind, however, making it impossible for a blind
user to purchase books from Amazon's Kindle
store, select a book to read, activate the
text-to-speech feature, and use the advanced
reading functions available on the Kindle DX.  In
addition to ASU, five other institutions of
higher education are deploying the Kindle DX as
part of a pilot project to assess the role of
electronic textbooks and reading devices in the
classroom.  The NFB and ACB have also filed
complaints with the Office for Civil Rights of
the U.S. Department of Education and the Civil
Rights Division of the U.S. Department of
Justice, asking for investigations of these five
institutions, which are: Case Western Reserve
University, the Darden School of Business at the
University of Virginia, Pace University,
Princeton University, and Reed College.  The
lawsuit and complaints allege violations of the
Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA) and the Rehabilitation Act of 1973.



Dr. Marc Maurer, President of the National
Federation of the Blind, said: "Given the
highly-advanced technology involved, there is no
good reason that Amazon's Kindle DX device should
be inaccessible to blind students.  Amazon could
have used the same text-to-speech technology that
reads e-books on the device aloud to make its
menus accessible to the blind, but it chose not
to do so.  Worse yet, six American higher
education institutions that are subject to
federal laws requiring that they not discriminate
against students with disabilities plan to deploy
this device, even though they know that it cannot
be used by blind students.  The National
Federation of the Blind will not tolerate this
unconscionable discrimination against and callous
indifference to the right of blind students to
receive an equal education.  We hope that this
situation can be rectified in a manner that
allows this exciting new reading technology to be
made available to blind and sighted students alike."



Darrell Shandrow, a blind student pursuing a
degree in journalism at ASU, said: "Not having
access to the advanced reading features of the
Kindle DX­including the ability to download books
and course materials, add my own bookmarks and
notes, and look up supplemental information
instantly on the Internet when I encounter it in
my reading­will lock me out of this new
technology and put me and other blind students at
a competitive disadvantage relative to our
sighted peers.  While my peers will have instant
access to their course materials in electronic
form, I will still have to wait weeks or months
for accessible texts to be prepared for me, and
these texts will not provide the access and
features available to other students.  That is
why I am standing up for myself and with other
blind Americans to end this blatant discrimination."





###





_______________________________________________
blindlaw mailing list
blindlaw at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
blindlaw:
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From slabarre at labarrelaw.com  Fri Jun 26 17:57:13 2009
From: slabarre at labarrelaw.com (Scott C. LaBarre)
Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 11:57:13 -0600
Subject: [blindlaw] amending NABL Constitution
Message-ID: <13921B8A918D4052873650C7667F954D@labarre>

Greetings:

We will be conducting our annual meeting next Sunday, July 5th, in Detroit as part of the NFB Convention.  Our growth and increased activity requires a larger board of directors.  Cureently, we have five officers and four board members.  Pursuant to Article XII of the Constitution, we can amend the Constitution by majority vote at any regular meeting as long as the notice of the amendment is circulated ahead of time.  I am proposing that we increase the number of our board members to six from four.  Therefore, I submit the below amended Constitution pursuant to Article XII.    The Article regarding the Board is Article V. 


CONSTITUTION

NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF BLIND LAWYERS

 

ARTICLE I.  NAME

 

The name of this organization shall be The National Association of Blind Lawyers.

 

ARTICLE II.  PURPOSE

 

The purpose of the National Association of Blind Merchants is to serve as an active division of the National Federation of the Blind; to function as a mechanism

through which blind lawyers, legal professionals, and law students along with interested sighted persons can come together in local, state and national meetings to plan and carry out programs

to improve opportunities for the blind in the legal profession and thereby improve the quality of life for the blind; to provide a means of collective action for blind lawyers, legal professionals, and law students; to promote the vocational, economic, business, cultural, civil rights, and social advancement of the blind through direct and indirect advocacy; to maximize opportunities for blind lawyers, legal professionals, and law students to achieve success in the legal field; to take all necessary action to insure that blind lawyers, legal professionals, and law students have full access to the Nation's judicial and legal system; and to take such other action as will improve the overall condition and standard of living of the blind.

 

ARTICLE III.  MEMBERSHIP

 

Section A. Members shall pay annual dues to this organization.  Dues paid to State divisions, affiliates, and chapters will not apply toward membership

to this organization.  At least a majority of the members of this organization must be blind.  All members have the right to vote, serve on committees,

Speak on the floor, and hold office.

 

Section B. Disciplinary Action.  Any member may be expelled or suspended for violation of this constitution or for conduct unbecoming to a member of the

Federation and/or this Association, by a majority vote of the members present and voting at any regular business session of this organization, or by a two thirds vote of the board

of directors.  Any person who feels that he/she has been unjustly disciplined or expelled from this organization may appeal to the board of directors of

the National Federation of the Blind, which may, in it's discretion, consider the matter and make a binding decision; but until or unless the action of

discipline or expulsion is reversed by the National board, it shall continue in effect.

 

ARTICLE IV.  OFFICERS AND THEIR DUTIES

 

There shall be elected at the regular business session of this organization, at the annual convention of the National Federation of the Blind, during each

Odd numbered year, a president, a first vice president, a second vice president, a secretary, and a treasurer.  The terms of these officers shall begin

at the close of the business meeting at which they are elected.  Officers shall be elected by a majority vote of the members who are present and voting.

 There shall be no proxy voting.  If no nominee receives a majority vote on the first ballot, the name of the person receiving the fewest votes shall be

dropped from the list of nominees and a second ballot shall be taken.  This procedure shall continue until one of the nominees has received a majority

vote from the members present and voting.  The duties of each officer shall be those ordinarily associated with that office.  The president and the vice

presidents must be blind.

 

ARTICLE V.  BOARD OF DIRECTORS

 

The board of directors of this organization shall consist of the five (5) constitutional officers and six (6) additional members, six (6) of whom shall

be elected for two (2) year terms at the business meeting at the annual convention, during odd numbered years.  The six (6) board members shall be elected in the same

manner as that prescribed for the election of officers.  The board shall meet at the call of the president or on written call signed by any three (3) of

the board members.  The board shall advise the president and shall have charge of the affairs of the organization between national conventions.  At least

six  (6) members of the board must be present at any meeting to constitute a quorum to transact business.  The board may be polled by telephone, email,

or mail ballot on any question.  A majority of the board must be blind.

 

ARTICLE VI.  SPECIAL MEETINGS

 

The president of this organization may call a special meeting of the body any time he/she or a majority of the board of directors deems such action necessary.

 

ARTICLE VII.  COMMITTEES

 

The president may appoint such committees as he/she or the organization deems necessary.  The president shall be ex officio a member of all committees.

 

ARTICLE VIII.  AFFILIATION

 

The National Association of Blind Lawyers shall be a division of the National Federation of the Blind and shall furnish to the president of the National

Federation of the Blind annually, on or before January 1, a list of the names and addresses of it's members and elected officers.  A copy of the constitution

of The National Association of Blind Lawyers, and of all amendments to the constitution, shall be sent to the president of the National Federation of

the Blind without delay upon adoption.  The National Association of Blind Lawyers shall not merely be a social organization, but shall formulate programs

and actively work to promote the economic and social betterment of the blind.  This organization shall comply with the provisions of the constitution of

the National Federation of the Blind.  Policy decisions of the National Federation of the Blind (whether made by the national convention or the national

board of directors) are binding on this organization.  This organization shall participate affirmatively in carrying out such policy decisions.

 

ARTICLE IX.  DUES

 

The dues for this organization shall be paid on or before the day of the business session at the annual National Federation of the Blind convention.  The

amount for dues may be changed by a majority vote at the annual business session.

 

ARTICLE X.  DISBURSEMENT OF FUNDS

 

The funds of this organization shall be deposited in a bank to be selected by the treasurer with the approval of the president.  All financial obligations

of this organization shall be discharged by check, issued on order of the president and signed by the treasurer or by an assistant treasurer approved by

the membership or the board of directors, except that with approval of the board, some transactions may be paid in cash at the National convention.

 

ARTICLE XI.  DISSOLUTION

 

In the event of the dissolution of this organization or if (for whatever reason) it ceases to be a division of the National Federation of the Blind, it's

assets shall be given to the National Federation of the Blind to be held in trust for a reorganized division.  In the event that no division is organized

for a period of two (2) years from the date this organization ceases to be a division of the National Federation of the Blind, the assets become the property

of the National Federation of the Blind.

 

ARTICLE XII.  AMENDMENTS

 

This constitution may be amended at any regular meeting of this organization by an affirmative vote of two thirds of the members present and voting, provided

the proposed amendment has been submitted in writing and circulated prior to the meeting and provided it is in compliance with the provisions of the

constitution of the National Federation of the Blind and with the policies of the National Federation of the Blind.




Scott C. LaBarre, Esq.

LaBarre Law Offices P.C.
1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918
Denver, Colorado 80222
303 504-5979 (voice)
303 757-3640 (fax)
slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail)
www.labarrelaw.com (website)

CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic
Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521.

From dandrews at visi.com  Tue Jun 30 21:09:08 2009
From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews)
Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 16:09:08 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] =?iso-8859-1?q?Availability_of_Organizational_Conventi?=
 =?iso-8859-1?q?on_Agendas_on_NFB-NEWSLINE=AE?=
Message-ID: <auto-000105579180@mailfront1.g2host.com>

Availability of Organizational Convention Agendas on NFB-NEWSLINE®

Both the ACB and the NFB will be holding their 
conventions within the next few weeks, and as a 
service to our subscribers we are making the 
convention agendas for both consumer 
organizations available on NFB-NEWSLINE®.  To 
access these convention agendas, from the main 
menu press option number five “Newspapers in a 
Different State”  for regions, and choose option 
number four “National Meetings of Interest to the 
Print Disabled.”  From that point you may select 
option number one to access the ACB 2009 
Convention Agenda, or option number two for the 
NFB 2009 Convention Agenda, or option number 
three for NFB-NEWSLINE® Detailed Convention 
Agenda.  For those of you who use NFB-NEWSLINE® 
In Your Pocket, you may choose to download these 
convention agendas onto your personal digital 
talking book player and enjoy having the entire 
agenda on your small portable device.  To do so, 
you will first need to add the convention 
agenda(s) to your Favorites list (option number 
four from the main menu) over the phone.  This 
information is also available online via Web News 
on Demand at 
<http://www.nfbnewslineonline.org/>www.nfbnewslineonline.org. 
To find the agenda of your choice, search for the 
agenda title in the “Publications Organized 
Alphabetically” category.  Using Web News on 
Demand to read your agenda(s) allows you to 
easily search for details such as a particular 
meeting’s start time or room number.  You can 
also have an e-mail of the entire agenda, a 
particular day’s schedule, or meeting information 
sent to your inbox on demand.  If you should have 
any questions, please call Bob Watson, 
NFB-NEWSLINE® Content Manager, at (410) 659-9314, extension 2356.



David Andrews and white cane Harry.

From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov  Tue Jun 30 22:46:09 2009
From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel)
Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 17:46:09 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] Diversity Fellowship Announcement for 2Ls - Ref#19662652
Message-ID: <E771EAA0575B844C98712011AE73D7ED3ADA0A2D60@EDUPTCEXMB03.ed.gov>

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Rachel Black [mailto:rblack at susmangodfrey.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 2:01 PM
To: MAMAS Mother Attorneys Mentoring Assoc. of Seattle Job Postings
Subject: [mamas_jobs] FW: Diversity Fellowship Announcement for 2Ls - Ref#19662652

Rachel Black posted:

2010 

2L Diversity Fellowship

Do you want to work for a dynamic, entrepreneurial firm where the attorneys work collaboratively to achieve individual and collective success?  Then we urge you to consider Riddell Williams.  At Riddell Williams, we acknowledge and respect the differences of each person in our firm.  Through our ongoing commitment to diversity, we foster mutual understanding, support and trust.  This includes education, mentoring, training and encouraging community leadership activities.

To further this commitment, we are proud to offer the Riddell Williams
(RW) Diversity Fellowship.  Our Fellowship includes a salaried summer associate position in addition to a $5,000 scholarship to defray tuition and expenses during the academic year.

We recognize that diversity can exhibit itself in many different forms, including gender, race, national origin, religion, age, veterans status, political affiliation, marital status, disability, socioeconomic circumstances, geographic background, sexual orientation and family circumstances.  We will place particular emphasis on candidates who are members of groups that are historically under-represented in the legal profession and at RW.

Applications are solicited from candidates each year based on the following criteria:

*         The candidate will be enrolled as a second year law student in
the fall of 2009 and in good standing for a JD degree at an ABA accredited law school;

*         The candidate must possess a distinguished academic record,
leadership ability, commitment to community service, and personal and professional accomplishments that demonstrate promise for a successful legal career;

*         The candidate's background and experience must demonstrate the
ability to make continuing contributions to the diversity of RW and the legal profession; and

*         The candidate must express interest in our practice areas and
commitment to building their practice in the Seattle area.

Application Materials:

*         A current resume;

*         An undergraduate and law school transcript (unofficial copies
are acceptable); and

*         A one to two page personal statement addressing the selection
criteria and explaining why the candidate believes that his or her background and experience would contribute to enhancing the diversity of RW and the legal profession.

Interested students should mail or email applications by September 15th
to:

Rebecca Misich

Human Resources & Recruiting Coordinator

Riddell Williams P.S.

1001 Fourth Avenue, Suite 4500

Seattle, WA  98154-1192 

rmisich at riddellwilliams.com

________________________________

________________________________________
View and comment online: https://www.bigtent.com/group/forum/message/19662652
HINT: When replying by email, please do not include the original message.



From stevep.deeley at insightbb.com  Mon Jun  1 00:44:11 2009
From: stevep.deeley at insightbb.com (Steve P. Deeley)
Date: Sun, 31 May 2009 20:44:11 -0400
Subject: [blindlaw] Question
In-Reply-To: <839F18076C66C345BD1C0A4ACA67A1F60315BA9B@dhsexcmsg12.intra.dhs.ca.gov>
References: <000701c9df3e$5115cf40$a580fe04@rjige047kjawst>
	<auto-000104236006@mailfront2.g2host.com>
	<19F4A55C66744C4FB0FF47703F076568@StevePC>
	<839F18076C66C345BD1C0A4ACA67A1F60315BA9B@dhsexcmsg12.intra.dhs.ca.gov>
Message-ID: <B45DA61666864DB7A1BDD03175A4B158@StevePC>

Wow, thanks a lot for that information.
Steve
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ford, Tim (CDPH-OLS)" <Tim.Ford at cdph.ca.gov>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 5:34 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Question


> Yes, this does happened a lot, because the machine on which the PDF scan
> is created is not set to create the imbedded text scan.  If this happens
> a lot and you know the person who is sending you the PDF, then you can
> ask them to go into the software on the scan equipment and check the box
> for text scanning to be included as an imbedded part of the PDF
> document.  It makes the file larger, but not as much an increase as I
> would have guessed.
>
> The alternative is to either get the Adobe Professional level software,
> which comes with a built-in text recognition feature, or in the case of
> Openbook, run it through the Freedom Import virtual scanner, which in my
> experience works better than Adobe's built-in scanner.  Also, the Adobe
> built-in scanner gives no audible feedback while it is working, so with
> a large document, you can sit there for several minutes wondering if it
> is still working or has locked up.
>
> I have no idea if the KW scanning software has a similar feature, but I
> would guess it does, since the two products seem to stay pretty even
> with each other.
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
> On Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley
> Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 7:40 AM
> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Question
>
> How can you get a scanned document to read.  This seems to be happening
> more and more.  I think folks are using copy-printers to scan and send
> things like newsletters.  This is frustrating, don't you think?
>
> Steve-- Original Message -----
> From: "David Andrews" <dandrews at visi.com>
> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2009 6:48 PM
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Question
>
>
>> This happens when the document contains a graphic, not actual
>> text.  Usually this happens because someone scans a document, then
>> makes that image file into a PDF.  You can OCR it, .
>> At 09:45 PM 5/27/2009, you wrote:
>>>Every time I try to open this PDF, it says, "Ellert: empty
>>>document." I tryed converting it to text, but It won't work. Is
>>>their some thing wrong with the document? Please email me off list,
>>>at: rjs59 at hotmail.com Thanks, RJ
>>>
>>>
>>>__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus
>>>signature database 4113 (20090528) __________
>>>
>>>The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.
>>>
>>>http://www.eset.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>blindlaw mailing list
>>>blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>for blindlaw:
>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40v
> isi.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindlaw:
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%
> 40insightbb.com
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> --------
>
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.46/2145 - Release Date:
> 05/31/09
> 05:53:00
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tim.ford%40cdp
> h.ca.gov
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.46/2145 - Release Date: 05/31/09 
05:53:00



From angie.matney at gmail.com  Mon Jun  1 01:42:28 2009
From: angie.matney at gmail.com (Angie Matney)
Date: Sun, 31 May 2009 21:42:28 -0400
Subject: [blindlaw] Question
In-Reply-To: <B45DA61666864DB7A1BDD03175A4B158@StevePC>
References: <000701c9df3e$5115cf40$a580fe04@rjige047kjawst>	<auto-000104236006@mailfront2.g2host.com>	<19F4A55C66744C4FB0FF47703F076568@StevePC>	<839F18076C66C345BD1C0A4ACA67A1F60315BA9B@dhsexcmsg12.intra.dhs.ca.gov>
	<B45DA61666864DB7A1BDD03175A4B158@StevePC>
Message-ID: <4a233206.48c3f10a.740a.408f@mx.google.com>

Finereader and Omnipage do this as well. They are about half the cost of
Kurzweil or OpenBook.

-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley
Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 8:44 PM
To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Question

Wow, thanks a lot for that information.
Steve
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ford, Tim (CDPH-OLS)" <Tim.Ford at cdph.ca.gov>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 5:34 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Question


> Yes, this does happened a lot, because the machine on which the PDF scan
> is created is not set to create the imbedded text scan.  If this happens
> a lot and you know the person who is sending you the PDF, then you can
> ask them to go into the software on the scan equipment and check the box
> for text scanning to be included as an imbedded part of the PDF
> document.  It makes the file larger, but not as much an increase as I
> would have guessed.
>
> The alternative is to either get the Adobe Professional level software,
> which comes with a built-in text recognition feature, or in the case of
> Openbook, run it through the Freedom Import virtual scanner, which in my
> experience works better than Adobe's built-in scanner.  Also, the Adobe
> built-in scanner gives no audible feedback while it is working, so with
> a large document, you can sit there for several minutes wondering if it
> is still working or has locked up.
>
> I have no idea if the KW scanning software has a similar feature, but I
> would guess it does, since the two products seem to stay pretty even
> with each other.
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
> On Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley
> Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 7:40 AM
> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Question
>
> How can you get a scanned document to read.  This seems to be happening
> more and more.  I think folks are using copy-printers to scan and send
> things like newsletters.  This is frustrating, don't you think?
>
> Steve-- Original Message -----
> From: "David Andrews" <dandrews at visi.com>
> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2009 6:48 PM
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Question
>
>
>> This happens when the document contains a graphic, not actual
>> text.  Usually this happens because someone scans a document, then
>> makes that image file into a PDF.  You can OCR it, .
>> At 09:45 PM 5/27/2009, you wrote:
>>>Every time I try to open this PDF, it says, "Ellert: empty
>>>document." I tryed converting it to text, but It won't work. Is
>>>their some thing wrong with the document? Please email me off list,
>>>at: rjs59 at hotmail.com Thanks, RJ
>>>
>>>
>>>__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus
>>>signature database 4113 (20090528) __________
>>>
>>>The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.
>>>
>>>http://www.eset.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>blindlaw mailing list
>>>blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>for blindlaw:
>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40v
> isi.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindlaw:
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%
> 40insightbb.com
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> --------
>
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.46/2145 - Release Date:
> 05/31/09
> 05:53:00
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tim.ford%40cdp
> h.ca.gov
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in
sightbb.com


----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----



No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.46/2145 - Release Date: 05/31/09 
05:53:00


_______________________________________________
blindlaw mailing list
blindlaw at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
blindlaw:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie.matney%40gma
il.com



From bspiry at comcast.net  Mon Jun  1 02:13:55 2009
From: bspiry at comcast.net (Bill Spiry)
Date: Sun, 31 May 2009 19:13:55 -0700
Subject: [blindlaw] Question
In-Reply-To: <839F18076C66C345BD1C0A4ACA67A1F60315BA9B@dhsexcmsg12.intra.dhs.ca.gov>
References: <000701c9df3e$5115cf40$a580fe04@rjige047kjawst><auto-000104236006@mailfront2.g2host.com>	<19F4A55C66744C4FB0FF47703F076568@StevePC>
	<839F18076C66C345BD1C0A4ACA67A1F60315BA9B@dhsexcmsg12.intra.dhs.ca.gov>
Message-ID: <000001c9e25e$9e545560$dafd0020$@net>

Kurzwiel does have that capability as well and I also find it to work better
with OCR than Adobe or other off the shelf OCR engines.

-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Ford, Tim (CDPH-OLS)
Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 2:35 PM
To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Question

Yes, this does happened a lot, because the machine on which the PDF scan
is created is not set to create the imbedded text scan.  If this happens
a lot and you know the person who is sending you the PDF, then you can
ask them to go into the software on the scan equipment and check the box
for text scanning to be included as an imbedded part of the PDF
document.  It makes the file larger, but not as much an increase as I
would have guessed.

The alternative is to either get the Adobe Professional level software,
which comes with a built-in text recognition feature, or in the case of
Openbook, run it through the Freedom Import virtual scanner, which in my
experience works better than Adobe's built-in scanner.  Also, the Adobe
built-in scanner gives no audible feedback while it is working, so with
a large document, you can sit there for several minutes wondering if it
is still working or has locked up.

I have no idea if the KW scanning software has a similar feature, but I
would guess it does, since the two products seem to stay pretty even
with each other.

  

-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
On Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley
Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 7:40 AM
To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Question

How can you get a scanned document to read.  This seems to be happening
more and more.  I think folks are using copy-printers to scan and send
things like newsletters.  This is frustrating, don't you think?

Steve-- Original Message -----
From: "David Andrews" <dandrews at visi.com>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2009 6:48 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Question


> This happens when the document contains a graphic, not actual
> text.  Usually this happens because someone scans a document, then
> makes that image file into a PDF.  You can OCR it, .
> At 09:45 PM 5/27/2009, you wrote:
>>Every time I try to open this PDF, it says, "Ellert: empty
>>document." I tryed converting it to text, but It won't work. Is
>>their some thing wrong with the document? Please email me off list,
>>at: rjs59 at hotmail.com Thanks, RJ
>>
>>
>>__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus
>>signature database 4113 (20090528) __________
>>
>>The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.
>>
>>http://www.eset.com
>>
>>
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>blindlaw mailing list
>>blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>for blindlaw:
>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40v
isi.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%
40insightbb.com


------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------



No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.46/2145 - Release Date:
05/31/09 
05:53:00


_______________________________________________
blindlaw mailing list
blindlaw at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
blindlaw:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tim.ford%40cdp
h.ca.gov

_______________________________________________
blindlaw mailing list
blindlaw at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
blindlaw:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/bspiry%40comcast.n
et



From rjs059 at peoplepc.com  Mon Jun  1 02:16:32 2009
From: rjs059 at peoplepc.com (rjs059 at peoplepc.com)
Date: Sun, 31 May 2009 22:16:32 -0400
Subject: [blindlaw] Question
References: <000701c9df3e$5115cf40$a580fe04@rjige047kjawst>	<auto-000104236006@mailfront2.g2host.com>	<19F4A55C66744C4FB0FF47703F076568@StevePC>	<839F18076C66C345BD1C0A4ACA67A1F60315BA9B@dhsexcmsg12.intra.dhs.ca.gov><B45DA61666864DB7A1BDD03175A4B158@StevePC>
	<4a233206.48c3f10a.740a.408f@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <002b01c9e25e$fcd80af0$c585fe04@rjige047kjawst>

I have openbook on my computer. What are you talking the vertual scanner? RJ
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Angie Matney" <angie.matney at gmail.com>
To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 9:42 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Question


> Finereader and Omnipage do this as well. They are about half the cost of
> Kurzweil or OpenBook.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley
> Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 8:44 PM
> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Question
>
> Wow, thanks a lot for that information.
> Steve
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Ford, Tim (CDPH-OLS)" <Tim.Ford at cdph.ca.gov>
> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 5:34 PM
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Question
>
>
>> Yes, this does happened a lot, because the machine on which the PDF scan
>> is created is not set to create the imbedded text scan.  If this happens
>> a lot and you know the person who is sending you the PDF, then you can
>> ask them to go into the software on the scan equipment and check the box
>> for text scanning to be included as an imbedded part of the PDF
>> document.  It makes the file larger, but not as much an increase as I
>> would have guessed.
>>
>> The alternative is to either get the Adobe Professional level software,
>> which comes with a built-in text recognition feature, or in the case of
>> Openbook, run it through the Freedom Import virtual scanner, which in my
>> experience works better than Adobe's built-in scanner.  Also, the Adobe
>> built-in scanner gives no audible feedback while it is working, so with
>> a large document, you can sit there for several minutes wondering if it
>> is still working or has locked up.
>>
>> I have no idea if the KW scanning software has a similar feature, but I
>> would guess it does, since the two products seem to stay pretty even
>> with each other.
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>> On Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley
>> Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 7:40 AM
>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Question
>>
>> How can you get a scanned document to read.  This seems to be happening
>> more and more.  I think folks are using copy-printers to scan and send
>> things like newsletters.  This is frustrating, don't you think?
>>
>> Steve-- Original Message -----
>> From: "David Andrews" <dandrews at visi.com>
>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2009 6:48 PM
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Question
>>
>>
>>> This happens when the document contains a graphic, not actual
>>> text.  Usually this happens because someone scans a document, then
>>> makes that image file into a PDF.  You can OCR it, .
>>> At 09:45 PM 5/27/2009, you wrote:
>>>>Every time I try to open this PDF, it says, "Ellert: empty
>>>>document." I tryed converting it to text, but It won't work. Is
>>>>their some thing wrong with the document? Please email me off list,
>>>>at: rjs59 at hotmail.com Thanks, RJ
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus
>>>>signature database 4113 (20090528) __________
>>>>
>>>>The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.
>>>>
>>>>http://www.eset.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>blindlaw mailing list
>>>>blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>for blindlaw:
>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40v
>> isi.com
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> blindlaw:
>>>
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%
>> 40insightbb.com
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> --------
>>
>>
>>
>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>> Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.46/2145 - Release Date:
>> 05/31/09
>> 05:53:00
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindlaw:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tim.ford%40cdp
>> h.ca.gov
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindlaw:
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in
> sightbb.com
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ----
>
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.46/2145 - Release Date: 05/31/09
> 05:53:00
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie.matney%40gma
> il.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rjs059%40peoplepc.com


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG.
Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 270.12.48/2147 - Release Date: 5/31/2009 
8:45 PM



From angie.matney at gmail.com  Mon Jun  1 03:20:09 2009
From: angie.matney at gmail.com (Angie Matney)
Date: Sun, 31 May 2009 23:20:09 -0400
Subject: [blindlaw] Question
In-Reply-To: <000001c9e25e$9e545560$dafd0020$@net>
References: <000701c9df3e$5115cf40$a580fe04@rjige047kjawst><auto-000104236006@mailfront2.g2host.com>	<19F4A55C66744C4FB0FF47703F076568@StevePC>	<839F18076C66C345BD1C0A4ACA67A1F60315BA9B@dhsexcmsg12.intra.dhs.ca.gov>
	<000001c9e25e$9e545560$dafd0020$@net>
Message-ID: <4a2348e9.85c2f10a.593a.1044@mx.google.com>

Hi Bill,

Have you used a dedicated OCR package, as opposed to the OCR capabilities
built into Adobe or something else? I ask because I know that Kurzweil
contains older versions of the OCR engines in Abbyy and OmniPage. Kurzweil
and OpenBook contain additional features that will make them better
solutions for some people. But I personally prefer Abbyy, which is fast and
incredibly accurate. (I have heard that it is less likely to lock up a
computer than Kurzweil, but that concerned an earlier version of Kurzweil.)
I wouldn't necessarily recommend that people who are using OpenBook or
Kurzweil switch to Abbyy or OmniPage. But if you are in the market for a
dedicated OCR program, These two packages are very accessible and are very
good at what they do.

Best,

Angie



-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Bill Spiry
Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 10:14 PM
To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Question

Kurzwiel does have that capability as well and I also find it to work better
with OCR than Adobe or other off the shelf OCR engines.

-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Ford, Tim (CDPH-OLS)
Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 2:35 PM
To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Question

Yes, this does happened a lot, because the machine on which the PDF scan
is created is not set to create the imbedded text scan.  If this happens
a lot and you know the person who is sending you the PDF, then you can
ask them to go into the software on the scan equipment and check the box
for text scanning to be included as an imbedded part of the PDF
document.  It makes the file larger, but not as much an increase as I
would have guessed.

The alternative is to either get the Adobe Professional level software,
which comes with a built-in text recognition feature, or in the case of
Openbook, run it through the Freedom Import virtual scanner, which in my
experience works better than Adobe's built-in scanner.  Also, the Adobe
built-in scanner gives no audible feedback while it is working, so with
a large document, you can sit there for several minutes wondering if it
is still working or has locked up.

I have no idea if the KW scanning software has a similar feature, but I
would guess it does, since the two products seem to stay pretty even
with each other.

  

-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
On Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley
Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 7:40 AM
To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Question

How can you get a scanned document to read.  This seems to be happening
more and more.  I think folks are using copy-printers to scan and send
things like newsletters.  This is frustrating, don't you think?

Steve-- Original Message -----
From: "David Andrews" <dandrews at visi.com>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2009 6:48 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Question


> This happens when the document contains a graphic, not actual
> text.  Usually this happens because someone scans a document, then
> makes that image file into a PDF.  You can OCR it, .
> At 09:45 PM 5/27/2009, you wrote:
>>Every time I try to open this PDF, it says, "Ellert: empty
>>document." I tryed converting it to text, but It won't work. Is
>>their some thing wrong with the document? Please email me off list,
>>at: rjs59 at hotmail.com Thanks, RJ
>>
>>
>>__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus
>>signature database 4113 (20090528) __________
>>
>>The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.
>>
>>http://www.eset.com
>>
>>
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>blindlaw mailing list
>>blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>for blindlaw:
>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40v
isi.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%
40insightbb.com


------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------



No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.46/2145 - Release Date:
05/31/09 
05:53:00


_______________________________________________
blindlaw mailing list
blindlaw at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
blindlaw:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tim.ford%40cdp
h.ca.gov

_______________________________________________
blindlaw mailing list
blindlaw at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
blindlaw:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/bspiry%40comcast.n
et


_______________________________________________
blindlaw mailing list
blindlaw at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
blindlaw:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie.matney%40gma
il.com



From bspiry at comcast.net  Mon Jun  1 03:54:53 2009
From: bspiry at comcast.net (Bill Spiry)
Date: Sun, 31 May 2009 20:54:53 -0700
Subject: [blindlaw] Question
In-Reply-To: <4a2348e9.85c2f10a.593a.1044@mx.google.com>
References: <000701c9df3e$5115cf40$a580fe04@rjige047kjawst><auto-000104236006@mailfront2.g2host.com>	<19F4A55C66744C4FB0FF47703F076568@StevePC>	<839F18076C66C345BD1C0A4ACA67A1F60315BA9B@dhsexcmsg12.intra.dhs.ca.gov>	<000001c9e25e$9e545560$dafd0020$@net>
	<4a2348e9.85c2f10a.593a.1044@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <000401c9e26c$b9161fb0$2b425f10$@net>

Hi Angie, no I haven't used the Abbyy OCR, I do have the latest ver of KW
though and it's been functioning pretty well. I might look into the off the
shelf you suggest though. thanks.

-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Angie Matney
Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 8:20 PM
To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Question

Hi Bill,

Have you used a dedicated OCR package, as opposed to the OCR capabilities
built into Adobe or something else? I ask because I know that Kurzweil
contains older versions of the OCR engines in Abbyy and OmniPage. Kurzweil
and OpenBook contain additional features that will make them better
solutions for some people. But I personally prefer Abbyy, which is fast and
incredibly accurate. (I have heard that it is less likely to lock up a
computer than Kurzweil, but that concerned an earlier version of Kurzweil.)
I wouldn't necessarily recommend that people who are using OpenBook or
Kurzweil switch to Abbyy or OmniPage. But if you are in the market for a
dedicated OCR program, These two packages are very accessible and are very
good at what they do.

Best,

Angie



-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Bill Spiry
Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 10:14 PM
To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Question

Kurzwiel does have that capability as well and I also find it to work better
with OCR than Adobe or other off the shelf OCR engines.

-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Ford, Tim (CDPH-OLS)
Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 2:35 PM
To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Question

Yes, this does happened a lot, because the machine on which the PDF scan
is created is not set to create the imbedded text scan.  If this happens
a lot and you know the person who is sending you the PDF, then you can
ask them to go into the software on the scan equipment and check the box
for text scanning to be included as an imbedded part of the PDF
document.  It makes the file larger, but not as much an increase as I
would have guessed.

The alternative is to either get the Adobe Professional level software,
which comes with a built-in text recognition feature, or in the case of
Openbook, run it through the Freedom Import virtual scanner, which in my
experience works better than Adobe's built-in scanner.  Also, the Adobe
built-in scanner gives no audible feedback while it is working, so with
a large document, you can sit there for several minutes wondering if it
is still working or has locked up.

I have no idea if the KW scanning software has a similar feature, but I
would guess it does, since the two products seem to stay pretty even
with each other.

  

-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
On Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley
Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 7:40 AM
To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Question

How can you get a scanned document to read.  This seems to be happening
more and more.  I think folks are using copy-printers to scan and send
things like newsletters.  This is frustrating, don't you think?

Steve-- Original Message -----
From: "David Andrews" <dandrews at visi.com>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2009 6:48 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Question


> This happens when the document contains a graphic, not actual
> text.  Usually this happens because someone scans a document, then
> makes that image file into a PDF.  You can OCR it, .
> At 09:45 PM 5/27/2009, you wrote:
>>Every time I try to open this PDF, it says, "Ellert: empty
>>document." I tryed converting it to text, but It won't work. Is
>>their some thing wrong with the document? Please email me off list,
>>at: rjs59 at hotmail.com Thanks, RJ
>>
>>
>>__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus
>>signature database 4113 (20090528) __________
>>
>>The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.
>>
>>http://www.eset.com
>>
>>
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>blindlaw mailing list
>>blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>for blindlaw:
>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40v
isi.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%
40insightbb.com


------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------



No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.46/2145 - Release Date:
05/31/09 
05:53:00


_______________________________________________
blindlaw mailing list
blindlaw at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
blindlaw:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tim.ford%40cdp
h.ca.gov

_______________________________________________
blindlaw mailing list
blindlaw at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
blindlaw:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/bspiry%40comcast.n
et


_______________________________________________
blindlaw mailing list
blindlaw at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
blindlaw:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie.matney%40gma
il.com


_______________________________________________
blindlaw mailing list
blindlaw at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
blindlaw:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/bspiry%40comcast.n
et



From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net  Mon Jun  1 07:03:12 2009
From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net)
Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2009 00:03:12 -0700
Subject: [blindlaw] Question
In-Reply-To: <19F4A55C66744C4FB0FF47703F076568@StevePC>
References: <000701c9df3e$5115cf40$a580fe04@rjige047kjawst><auto-000104236006@mailfront2.g2host.com>
	<19F4A55C66744C4FB0FF47703F076568@StevePC>
Message-ID: <8D64D9329C2142A5834CC6A6D4B36C4A@spike>

The only you can get a scanned document to read is to print it out and 
rescan it using OCR software such as Kurzweil. I spend time educating my 
clients however as to the format that I need documents in. As many of my 
clients are nonprofits or public entities that serve various groups I spend 
some time educating and acquainting them with web accessibility standards 
and encourage them to use them when they design content.\
Chuck
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Steve P. Deeley" <stevep.deeley at insightbb.com>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 7:40 AM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Question


> How can you get a scanned document to read.  This seems to be happening 
> more and more.  I think folks are using copy-printers to scan and send 
> things like newsletters.  This is frustrating, don't you think?
>
> Steve-- Original Message ----- 
> From: "David Andrews" <dandrews at visi.com>
> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2009 6:48 PM
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Question
>
>
>> This happens when the document contains a graphic, not actual
>> text.  Usually this happens because someone scans a document, then
>> makes that image file into a PDF.  You can OCR it, .
>> At 09:45 PM 5/27/2009, you wrote:
>>>Every time I try to open this PDF, it says, "Ellert: empty
>>>document." I tryed converting it to text, but It won't work. Is
>>>their some thing wrong with the document? Please email me off list,
>>>at: rjs59 at hotmail.com Thanks, RJ
>>>
>>>
>>>__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus
>>>signature database 4113 (20090528) __________
>>>
>>>The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.
>>>
>>>http://www.eset.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>blindlaw mailing list
>>>blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>for blindlaw:
>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40visi.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> blindlaw:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.46/2145 - Release Date: 05/31/09 
> 05:53:00
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net 




From angie.matney at gmail.com  Mon Jun  1 08:18:48 2009
From: angie.matney at gmail.com (Angie Matney)
Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2009 04:18:48 -0400
Subject: [blindlaw] Question
In-Reply-To: <8D64D9329C2142A5834CC6A6D4B36C4A@spike>
References: <000701c9df3e$5115cf40$a580fe04@rjige047kjawst><auto-000104236006@mailfront2.g2host.com>	<19F4A55C66744C4FB0FF47703F076568@StevePC>
	<8D64D9329C2142A5834CC6A6D4B36C4A@spike>
Message-ID: <4a238eeb.c5c2f10a.6e81.2ef2@mx.google.com>

Hi Chuck,

Good points about educating others as to which formats work best. One thing,
though: You shouldn't need to actually print the document to run OCR on it.
Does Kurzweil have a setting to let you open certain types of files? I use
my OCR software of choice (Abbyy Finereader) to access pdf's that do not
have imbedded text. I don't have to print the file; I just run  it through
the software. Saves a few trees (grin).

Angie





-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net
Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 3:03 AM
To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Question

The only you can get a scanned document to read is to print it out and 
rescan it using OCR software such as Kurzweil. I spend time educating my 
clients however as to the format that I need documents in. As many of my 
clients are nonprofits or public entities that serve various groups I spend 
some time educating and acquainting them with web accessibility standards 
and encourage them to use them when they design content.\
Chuck
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Steve P. Deeley" <stevep.deeley at insightbb.com>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 7:40 AM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Question


> How can you get a scanned document to read.  This seems to be happening 
> more and more.  I think folks are using copy-printers to scan and send 
> things like newsletters.  This is frustrating, don't you think?
>
> Steve-- Original Message ----- 
> From: "David Andrews" <dandrews at visi.com>
> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2009 6:48 PM
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Question
>
>
>> This happens when the document contains a graphic, not actual
>> text.  Usually this happens because someone scans a document, then
>> makes that image file into a PDF.  You can OCR it, .
>> At 09:45 PM 5/27/2009, you wrote:
>>>Every time I try to open this PDF, it says, "Ellert: empty
>>>document." I tryed converting it to text, but It won't work. Is
>>>their some thing wrong with the document? Please email me off list,
>>>at: rjs59 at hotmail.com Thanks, RJ
>>>
>>>
>>>__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus
>>>signature database 4113 (20090528) __________
>>>
>>>The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.
>>>
>>>http://www.eset.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>blindlaw mailing list
>>>blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>for blindlaw:
>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40visi
.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> blindlaw:
>>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in
sightbb.com
>
>
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
>
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.46/2145 - Release Date: 05/31/09

> 05:53:00
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob
al.net 



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http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
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il.com



From JMcCarthy at nfb.org  Mon Jun  1 12:10:53 2009
From: JMcCarthy at nfb.org (McCarthy, Jim)
Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2009 08:10:53 -0400
Subject: [blindlaw] Question
In-Reply-To: <4a238eeb.c5c2f10a.6e81.2ef2@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6B26D889@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local>

You can also do the same through Kirsweil.  I just did it last night.
Jim McCarthy

-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
On Behalf Of Angie Matney
Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 4:19 AM
To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Question

Hi Chuck,

Good points about educating others as to which formats work best. One
thing,
though: You shouldn't need to actually print the document to run OCR on
it.
Does Kurzweil have a setting to let you open certain types of files? I
use my OCR software of choice (Abbyy Finereader) to access pdf's that do
not have imbedded text. I don't have to print the file; I just run  it
through the software. Saves a few trees (grin).

Angie





-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
On Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net
Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 3:03 AM
To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Question

The only you can get a scanned document to read is to print it out and
rescan it using OCR software such as Kurzweil. I spend time educating my
clients however as to the format that I need documents in. As many of my
clients are nonprofits or public entities that serve various groups I
spend some time educating and acquainting them with web accessibility
standards and encourage them to use them when they design content.\
Chuck
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve P. Deeley" <stevep.deeley at insightbb.com>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 7:40 AM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Question


> How can you get a scanned document to read.  This seems to be 
> happening more and more.  I think folks are using copy-printers to 
> scan and send things like newsletters.  This is frustrating, don't you
think?
>
> Steve-- Original Message -----
> From: "David Andrews" <dandrews at visi.com>
> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2009 6:48 PM
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Question
>
>
>> This happens when the document contains a graphic, not actual text.  
>> Usually this happens because someone scans a document, then makes 
>> that image file into a PDF.  You can OCR it, .
>> At 09:45 PM 5/27/2009, you wrote:
>>>Every time I try to open this PDF, it says, "Ellert: empty document."

>>>I tryed converting it to text, but It won't work. Is their some thing

>>>wrong with the document? Please email me off list,
>>>at: rjs59 at hotmail.com Thanks, RJ
>>>
>>>
>>>__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus 
>>>signature database 4113 (20090528) __________
>>>
>>>The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.
>>>
>>>http://www.eset.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>blindlaw mailing list
>>>blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for

>>>blindlaw:
>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40
>>>visi
.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindlaw:
>>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%
40in
sightbb.com
>
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
----
>
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.46/2145 - Release Date: 
> 05/31/09

> 05:53:00
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindlaw:
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbc
glob
al.net 



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blindlaw at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
blindlaw:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie.matney%4
0gma
il.com


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blindlaw at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
blindlaw:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jmccarthy%40nf
b.org


From Tim.Ford at cdph.ca.gov  Mon Jun  1 14:35:40 2009
From: Tim.Ford at cdph.ca.gov (Ford, Tim (CDPH-OLS))
Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2009 07:35:40 -0700
Subject: [blindlaw] Question
In-Reply-To: <002b01c9e25e$fcd80af0$c585fe04@rjige047kjawst>
References: <000701c9df3e$5115cf40$a580fe04@rjige047kjawst>	<auto-000104236006@mailfront2.g2host.com>	<19F4A55C66744C4FB0FF47703F076568@StevePC>	<839F18076C66C345BD1C0A4ACA67A1F60315BA9B@dhsexcmsg12.intra.dhs.ca.gov><B45DA61666864DB7A1BDD03175A4B158@StevePC><4a233206.48c3f10a.740a.408f@mx.google.com>
	<002b01c9e25e$fcd80af0$c585fe04@rjige047kjawst>
Message-ID: <839F18076C66C345BD1C0A4ACA67A1F60315BAB1@dhsexcmsg12.intra.dhs.ca.gov>

If you have Openbook version 8, you have a built-in virtual printer
command, which takes any document, including an Adobe that is just a
picture/image of a page, and sends it directly to Openbook for text
conversion.  You invoke this by starting the normal print command, and
under the printer option, choose the Freedom Import Printer option.  Hit
enter, and it will automatically start Openbook.  Freedom Scientific
recommends manually starting Openbook first, but I have not had problems
in letting the Freedom Import Printer start OB.

 

-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
On Behalf Of rjs059 at peoplepc.com
Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 7:17 PM
To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Question

I have openbook on my computer. What are you talking the vertual
scanner? RJ
----- Original Message -----
From: "Angie Matney" <angie.matney at gmail.com>
To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 9:42 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Question


> Finereader and Omnipage do this as well. They are about half the cost
of
> Kurzweil or OpenBook.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
On
> Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley
> Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 8:44 PM
> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Question
>
> Wow, thanks a lot for that information.
> Steve
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Ford, Tim (CDPH-OLS)" <Tim.Ford at cdph.ca.gov>
> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 5:34 PM
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Question
>
>
>> Yes, this does happened a lot, because the machine on which the PDF
scan
>> is created is not set to create the imbedded text scan.  If this
happens
>> a lot and you know the person who is sending you the PDF, then you
can
>> ask them to go into the software on the scan equipment and check the
box
>> for text scanning to be included as an imbedded part of the PDF
>> document.  It makes the file larger, but not as much an increase as I
>> would have guessed.
>>
>> The alternative is to either get the Adobe Professional level
software,
>> which comes with a built-in text recognition feature, or in the case
of
>> Openbook, run it through the Freedom Import virtual scanner, which in
my
>> experience works better than Adobe's built-in scanner.  Also, the
Adobe
>> built-in scanner gives no audible feedback while it is working, so
with
>> a large document, you can sit there for several minutes wondering if
it
>> is still working or has locked up.
>>
>> I have no idea if the KW scanning software has a similar feature, but
I
>> would guess it does, since the two products seem to stay pretty even
>> with each other.
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org
[mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>> On Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley
>> Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 7:40 AM
>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Question
>>
>> How can you get a scanned document to read.  This seems to be
happening
>> more and more.  I think folks are using copy-printers to scan and
send
>> things like newsletters.  This is frustrating, don't you think?
>>
>> Steve-- Original Message -----
>> From: "David Andrews" <dandrews at visi.com>
>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2009 6:48 PM
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Question
>>
>>
>>> This happens when the document contains a graphic, not actual
>>> text.  Usually this happens because someone scans a document, then
>>> makes that image file into a PDF.  You can OCR it, .
>>> At 09:45 PM 5/27/2009, you wrote:
>>>>Every time I try to open this PDF, it says, "Ellert: empty
>>>>document." I tryed converting it to text, but It won't work. Is
>>>>their some thing wrong with the document? Please email me off list,
>>>>at: rjs59 at hotmail.com Thanks, RJ
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus
>>>>signature database 4113 (20090528) __________
>>>>
>>>>The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.
>>>>
>>>>http://www.eset.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>blindlaw mailing list
>>>>blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>for blindlaw:
>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dandrews%4
0v
>> isi.com
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
for
>>> blindlaw:
>>>
>>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%
>> 40insightbb.com
>>
>>
>>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> --------
>>
>>
>>
>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>> Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.46/2145 - Release Date:
>> 05/31/09
>> 05:53:00
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindlaw:
>>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tim.ford%40cdp
>> h.ca.gov
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindlaw:
>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%
40in
> sightbb.com
>
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
> ----
>
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.46/2145 - Release Date:
05/31/09
> 05:53:00
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindlaw:
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie.matney%4
0gma
> il.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rjs059%40peopl
epc.com


------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------



No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG.
Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 270.12.48/2147 - Release Date:
5/31/2009 
8:45 PM


_______________________________________________
blindlaw mailing list
blindlaw at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
blindlaw:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tim.ford%40cdp
h.ca.gov


From carter.tjoseph at gmail.com  Mon Jun  1 15:57:33 2009
From: carter.tjoseph at gmail.com (T. Joseph Carter)
Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2009 08:57:33 -0700
Subject: [blindlaw] Question
In-Reply-To: <839F18076C66C345BD1C0A4ACA67A1F60315BA9B@dhsexcmsg12.intra.dhs.ca.gov>
References: <19F4A55C66744C4FB0FF47703F076568@StevePC>
	<839F18076C66C345BD1C0A4ACA67A1F60315BA9B@dhsexcmsg12.intra.dhs.ca.gov>
Message-ID: <20090601155732.GA330@yumi.bluecherry.net>

Of course Kurzweil has similar features, specifically because these 
things are so common.

Incidentally, the Fujitsu ScanSnap scanners (at least the S1500 and 
S1500M for Mac) come with the full version of Adobe Acrobat Pro, as 
well as with a limited (ScanSnap-generated PDF only) version of ABBYY 
FineReader set to just do its thing automatically.

I point it out because a lot of lawyers get really excited when they 
see the ScanSnap in action.  If ScanSnap Manager for Windows can be 
used with JAWS/WE, it's about the best line of document scanners on 
the market.  It doesn't do books unless you chop them up, but its 
purpose is to scan documents--both sides at once, twenty sheets of 
paper per minute.  *grin*

Personally, I don't see ScanSnap Manager's document manager as a big 
loss if it's difficult to use with a screen reader.  My thinking is 
that you'd grow out of it pretty quickly anyway and need to move on 
to a real document database system.  Fujitsu's grown-up document 
manager for Windows is Rack2Filer.  There are about a dozen competing 
document management tools to choose from on the Mac ranging from free 
to about $130 for something like DEVONthink Pro Office (which is how 
I OCR'd RJ's PDF for him..)

Joseph


On Sun, May 31, 2009 at 02:34:55PM -0700, Ford, Tim (CDPH-OLS) wrote:
>Yes, this does happened a lot, because the machine on which the PDF scan
>is created is not set to create the imbedded text scan.  If this happens
>a lot and you know the person who is sending you the PDF, then you can
>ask them to go into the software on the scan equipment and check the box
>for text scanning to be included as an imbedded part of the PDF
>document.  It makes the file larger, but not as much an increase as I
>would have guessed.
>
>The alternative is to either get the Adobe Professional level software,
>which comes with a built-in text recognition feature, or in the case of
>Openbook, run it through the Freedom Import virtual scanner, which in my
>experience works better than Adobe's built-in scanner.  Also, the Adobe
>built-in scanner gives no audible feedback while it is working, so with
>a large document, you can sit there for several minutes wondering if it
>is still working or has locked up.
>
>I have no idea if the KW scanning software has a similar feature, but I
>would guess it does, since the two products seem to stay pretty even
>with each other.


From carter.tjoseph at gmail.com  Mon Jun  1 16:06:08 2009
From: carter.tjoseph at gmail.com (T. Joseph Carter)
Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2009 09:06:08 -0700
Subject: [blindlaw] Question
In-Reply-To: <4a2348e9.85c2f10a.593a.1044@mx.google.com>
References: <19F4A55C66744C4FB0FF47703F076568@StevePC>
	<839F18076C66C345BD1C0A4ACA67A1F60315BA9B@dhsexcmsg12.intra.dhs.ca.gov>
	<000001c9e25e$9e545560$dafd0020$@net>
	<4a2348e9.85c2f10a.593a.1044@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <20090601160608.GB330@yumi.bluecherry.net>

Angie,

I found the learning curve of ABBYY FineReader to be fairly high.  
Lots of fiddling to get it to work.  What I've got now has the ABBY 
FineReader engine (currently version 8, since ABBY is skipping 
straight to 10 on the Mac), and it does work extremely well when the 
background is not "noisy".  Most OCR packages try to interpret these 
little artifacts as random punctuation, with even the latest 
FineReader for Windows being no exception.

One interesting thing, if I understand correctly, is that Kurzweil 
can use both the FineReader and OmniPage engines.  I do not know if 
you must toggle them or if it can use both and reconcile the 
differences, but the latter would be a great feature!

I'm not a fan of ReadIRIS.  It's just not clever enough.

Joseph


On Sun, May 31, 2009 at 11:20:09PM -0400, Angie Matney wrote:
>Hi Bill,
>
>Have you used a dedicated OCR package, as opposed to the OCR capabilities
>built into Adobe or something else? I ask because I know that Kurzweil
>contains older versions of the OCR engines in Abbyy and OmniPage. Kurzweil
>and OpenBook contain additional features that will make them better
>solutions for some people. But I personally prefer Abbyy, which is fast and
>incredibly accurate. (I have heard that it is less likely to lock up a
>computer than Kurzweil, but that concerned an earlier version of Kurzweil.)
>I wouldn't necessarily recommend that people who are using OpenBook or
>Kurzweil switch to Abbyy or OmniPage. But if you are in the market for a
>dedicated OCR program, These two packages are very accessible and are very
>good at what they do.
>
>Best,
>
>Angie


From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net  Mon Jun  1 16:29:18 2009
From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net)
Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2009 09:29:18 -0700
Subject: [blindlaw] Question
In-Reply-To: <4a238eeb.c5c2f10a.6e81.2ef2@mx.google.com>
References: <000701c9df3e$5115cf40$a580fe04@rjige047kjawst><auto-000104236006@mailfront2.g2host.com>	<19F4A55C66744C4FB0FF47703F076568@StevePC><8D64D9329C2142A5834CC6A6D4B36C4A@spike>
	<4a238eeb.c5c2f10a.6e81.2ef2@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <F7DC65D96CD04B58B979B6ED1DEEAAF6@spike>

I'm not sure if there is or not probably because I never thought to check.
Chuck
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Angie Matney" <angie.matney at gmail.com>
To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 1:18 AM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Question


> Hi Chuck,
>
> Good points about educating others as to which formats work best. One 
> thing,
> though: You shouldn't need to actually print the document to run OCR on 
> it.
> Does Kurzweil have a setting to let you open certain types of files? I use
> my OCR software of choice (Abbyy Finereader) to access pdf's that do not
> have imbedded text. I don't have to print the file; I just run  it through
> the software. Saves a few trees (grin).
>
> Angie
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net
> Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 3:03 AM
> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Question
>
> The only you can get a scanned document to read is to print it out and
> rescan it using OCR software such as Kurzweil. I spend time educating my
> clients however as to the format that I need documents in. As many of my
> clients are nonprofits or public entities that serve various groups I 
> spend
> some time educating and acquainting them with web accessibility standards
> and encourage them to use them when they design content.\
> Chuck
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Steve P. Deeley" <stevep.deeley at insightbb.com>
> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 7:40 AM
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Question
>
>
>> How can you get a scanned document to read.  This seems to be happening
>> more and more.  I think folks are using copy-printers to scan and send
>> things like newsletters.  This is frustrating, don't you think?
>>
>> Steve-- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "David Andrews" <dandrews at visi.com>
>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2009 6:48 PM
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Question
>>
>>
>>> This happens when the document contains a graphic, not actual
>>> text.  Usually this happens because someone scans a document, then
>>> makes that image file into a PDF.  You can OCR it, .
>>> At 09:45 PM 5/27/2009, you wrote:
>>>>Every time I try to open this PDF, it says, "Ellert: empty
>>>>document." I tryed converting it to text, but It won't work. Is
>>>>their some thing wrong with the document? Please email me off list,
>>>>at: rjs59 at hotmail.com Thanks, RJ
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus
>>>>signature database 4113 (20090528) __________
>>>>
>>>>The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.
>>>>
>>>>http://www.eset.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>blindlaw mailing list
>>>>blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>for blindlaw:
>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40visi
> .com
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> blindlaw:
>>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in
> sightbb.com
>>
>>
>>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ----
>>
>>
>>
>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>> Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.46/2145 - Release Date: 
>> 05/31/09
>
>> 05:53:00
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindlaw:
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob
> al.net
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie.matney%40gma
> il.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net 



From angie.matney at gmail.com  Mon Jun  1 17:43:57 2009
From: angie.matney at gmail.com (Angie Matney)
Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2009 13:43:57 -0400
Subject: [blindlaw] Question
In-Reply-To: <20090601160608.GB330@yumi.bluecherry.net>
References: <19F4A55C66744C4FB0FF47703F076568@StevePC>	<839F18076C66C345BD1C0A4ACA67A1F60315BA9B@dhsexcmsg12.intra.dhs.ca.gov>	<000001c9e25e$9e545560$dafd0020$@net>	<4a2348e9.85c2f10a.593a.1044@mx.google.com>
	<20090601160608.GB330@yumi.bluecherry.net>
Message-ID: <4a241365.02c3f10a.6605.08fd@mx.google.com>

Hi Joseph,

Thanks for your observations. Personally, I found Abbyy easier to work with
than Kurzweil. The hardest part of the process was changing a setting in
Abbyy to enable the multi-feed detection in my scanner. Once that was done,
I had no problems. I can now convert a PDF to Word, with retained
formatting, in only a few keystrokes. I did not like Kurzweil when I tried
it because I couldn't figure out how to make it let me use JAWS instead of
its built-in interface. But this is personal preference.

I agree that if Kurzweil could reconcile the differences between Abbyy and
Omnipage, it would be worth putting up with some inconvenience. (grin) But I
don't think it does this. Someone who is more familiar with the software can
correct me if I'm wrong.



-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of T. Joseph Carter
Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 12:06 PM
To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Question

Angie,

I found the learning curve of ABBYY FineReader to be fairly high.  
Lots of fiddling to get it to work.  What I've got now has the ABBY 
FineReader engine (currently version 8, since ABBY is skipping 
straight to 10 on the Mac), and it does work extremely well when the 
background is not "noisy".  Most OCR packages try to interpret these 
little artifacts as random punctuation, with even the latest 
FineReader for Windows being no exception.

One interesting thing, if I understand correctly, is that Kurzweil 
can use both the FineReader and OmniPage engines.  I do not know if 
you must toggle them or if it can use both and reconcile the 
differences, but the latter would be a great feature!

I'm not a fan of ReadIRIS.  It's just not clever enough.

Joseph


On Sun, May 31, 2009 at 11:20:09PM -0400, Angie Matney wrote:
>Hi Bill,
>
>Have you used a dedicated OCR package, as opposed to the OCR capabilities
>built into Adobe or something else? I ask because I know that Kurzweil
>contains older versions of the OCR engines in Abbyy and OmniPage. Kurzweil
>and OpenBook contain additional features that will make them better
>solutions for some people. But I personally prefer Abbyy, which is fast and
>incredibly accurate. (I have heard that it is less likely to lock up a
>computer than Kurzweil, but that concerned an earlier version of Kurzweil.)
>I wouldn't necessarily recommend that people who are using OpenBook or
>Kurzweil switch to Abbyy or OmniPage. But if you are in the market for a
>dedicated OCR program, These two packages are very accessible and are very
>good at what they do.
>
>Best,
>
>Angie

_______________________________________________
blindlaw mailing list
blindlaw at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
blindlaw:
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il.com



From angie.matney at gmail.com  Mon Jun  1 17:46:02 2009
From: angie.matney at gmail.com (Angie Matney)
Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2009 13:46:02 -0400
Subject: [blindlaw] Question
In-Reply-To: <20090601160608.GB330@yumi.bluecherry.net>
References: <19F4A55C66744C4FB0FF47703F076568@StevePC>	<839F18076C66C345BD1C0A4ACA67A1F60315BA9B@dhsexcmsg12.intra.dhs.ca.gov>	<000001c9e25e$9e545560$dafd0020$@net>	<4a2348e9.85c2f10a.593a.1044@mx.google.com>
	<20090601160608.GB330@yumi.bluecherry.net>
Message-ID: <4a2413e0.86c3f10a.4269.030b@mx.google.com>

Hi Joseph,

Thanks for your observations. Personally, I found Abbyy easier to work with
than Kurzweil. The hardest part of the process was changing a setting in
Abbyy to enable the multi-feed detection in my scanner. Once that was done,
I had no problems. I can now convert a PDF to Word, with retained
formatting, in only a few keystrokes. I did not like Kurzweil when I tried
it because I couldn't figure out how to make it let me use JAWS instead of
its built-in interface. But this is personal preference.

I agree that if Kurzweil could reconcile the differences between Abbyy and
Omnipage, it would be worth putting up with some inconvenience. (grin) But I
don't think it does this. Someone who is more familiar with the software can
correct me if I'm wrong.



-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of T. Joseph Carter
Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 12:06 PM
To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Question

Angie,

I found the learning curve of ABBYY FineReader to be fairly high.  
Lots of fiddling to get it to work.  What I've got now has the ABBY 
FineReader engine (currently version 8, since ABBY is skipping 
straight to 10 on the Mac), and it does work extremely well when the 
background is not "noisy".  Most OCR packages try to interpret these 
little artifacts as random punctuation, with even the latest 
FineReader for Windows being no exception.

One interesting thing, if I understand correctly, is that Kurzweil 
can use both the FineReader and OmniPage engines.  I do not know if 
you must toggle them or if it can use both and reconcile the 
differences, but the latter would be a great feature!

I'm not a fan of ReadIRIS.  It's just not clever enough.

Joseph


On Sun, May 31, 2009 at 11:20:09PM -0400, Angie Matney wrote:
>Hi Bill,
>
>Have you used a dedicated OCR package, as opposed to the OCR capabilities
>built into Adobe or something else? I ask because I know that Kurzweil
>contains older versions of the OCR engines in Abbyy and OmniPage. Kurzweil
>and OpenBook contain additional features that will make them better
>solutions for some people. But I personally prefer Abbyy, which is fast and
>incredibly accurate. (I have heard that it is less likely to lock up a
>computer than Kurzweil, but that concerned an earlier version of Kurzweil.)
>I wouldn't necessarily recommend that people who are using OpenBook or
>Kurzweil switch to Abbyy or OmniPage. But if you are in the market for a
>dedicated OCR program, These two packages are very accessible and are very
>good at what they do.
>
>Best,
>
>Angie

_______________________________________________
blindlaw mailing list
blindlaw at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
blindlaw:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie.matney%40gma
il.com



From carter.tjoseph at gmail.com  Mon Jun  1 21:24:11 2009
From: carter.tjoseph at gmail.com (T. Joseph Carter)
Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2009 14:24:11 -0700
Subject: [blindlaw] Question
In-Reply-To: <4a238eeb.c5c2f10a.6e81.2ef2@mx.google.com>
References: <19F4A55C66744C4FB0FF47703F076568@StevePC>
	<8D64D9329C2142A5834CC6A6D4B36C4A@spike>
	<4a238eeb.c5c2f10a.6e81.2ef2@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <20090601212411.GE330@yumi.bluecherry.net>

Angie,

Both Windows and Mac consider Rich Text to be a "native" format.  The 
operating system itself knows how to use and manipulate it.  On the 
Mac, so is PDF (though Apple doesn't provide an end-user tool to do 
so by hand.)

In Windows, when you go to print, the program generates a stream of 
data in a custom format used only by Windows.  You can save the 
stream to your hard drive, but it's really only good for printing and 
viewing in a third-party tool you can download if you want to.  Still 
it's useful to be able to use that on a laptop when you're not 
connected to your printer.

The Mac does the same thing, except the program generates a stream of 
PDF data.  Anything you print becomes a PDF whether you send it to 
the printer or not.  We have a little menu full of scripts that 
programs add for processing PDFs.

There are PDF printers for Windows too that convert from the Windows 
format to PDF.  There's no reason one of those couldn't be used to 
get the same functionality as our PDFkit scripts.  And we do have a 
few "virtual printers" as well.  I can Mail PDF or I can print to the 
PageSender virtual printer.  I get more settings if I do the latter.  
On Windows, it's the only choice available.  It gets the job done all 
the same, though.

Joseph

On Mon, Jun 01, 2009 at 04:18:48AM -0400, Angie Matney wrote:
>Hi Chuck,
>
>Good points about educating others as to which formats work best. One thing,
>though: You shouldn't need to actually print the document to run OCR on it.
>Does Kurzweil have a setting to let you open certain types of files? I use
>my OCR software of choice (Abbyy Finereader) to access pdf's that do not
>have imbedded text. I don't have to print the file; I just run  it through
>the software. Saves a few trees (grin).
>
>Angie


From bspiry at comcast.net  Tue Jun  2 04:30:15 2009
From: bspiry at comcast.net (Bill Spiry)
Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2009 21:30:15 -0700
Subject: [blindlaw] Question
In-Reply-To: <F7DC65D96CD04B58B979B6ED1DEEAAF6@spike>
References: <000701c9df3e$5115cf40$a580fe04@rjige047kjawst><auto-000104236006@mailfront2.g2host.com>	<19F4A55C66744C4FB0FF47703F076568@StevePC><8D64D9329C2142A5834CC6A6D4B36C4A@spike>	<4a238eeb.c5c2f10a.6e81.2ef2@mx.google.com>
	<F7DC65D96CD04B58B979B6ED1DEEAAF6@spike>
Message-ID: <004601c9e33a$d4f25770$7ed70650$@net>

Pretty easy to do, when kurzwiel is loaded, go to Open a new file (either
under the file menu or simply with a control-o) and then browse to where you
have the file you want to convert saved, highlight it and hit enter.
Kurzwiel will begin the conversion process with your settings as if it was
converting a newly scanned hard copy document.  You can choose which OCR
engine you wish to use under the settings menu under the recognition option.
There will be a dialog box that allows you to change a number of recognition
options including which engine to use.

Kurzwiel is actually pretty easy and friendly to use with a bit of poking
around.
  

-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net
Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 9:29 AM
To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Question

I'm not sure if there is or not probably because I never thought to check.
Chuck
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Angie Matney" <angie.matney at gmail.com>
To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 1:18 AM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Question


> Hi Chuck,
>
> Good points about educating others as to which formats work best. One 
> thing,
> though: You shouldn't need to actually print the document to run OCR on 
> it.
> Does Kurzweil have a setting to let you open certain types of files? I use
> my OCR software of choice (Abbyy Finereader) to access pdf's that do not
> have imbedded text. I don't have to print the file; I just run  it through
> the software. Saves a few trees (grin).
>
> Angie
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net
> Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 3:03 AM
> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Question
>
> The only you can get a scanned document to read is to print it out and
> rescan it using OCR software such as Kurzweil. I spend time educating my
> clients however as to the format that I need documents in. As many of my
> clients are nonprofits or public entities that serve various groups I 
> spend
> some time educating and acquainting them with web accessibility standards
> and encourage them to use them when they design content.\
> Chuck
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Steve P. Deeley" <stevep.deeley at insightbb.com>
> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 7:40 AM
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Question
>
>
>> How can you get a scanned document to read.  This seems to be happening
>> more and more.  I think folks are using copy-printers to scan and send
>> things like newsletters.  This is frustrating, don't you think?
>>
>> Steve-- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "David Andrews" <dandrews at visi.com>
>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2009 6:48 PM
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Question
>>
>>
>>> This happens when the document contains a graphic, not actual
>>> text.  Usually this happens because someone scans a document, then
>>> makes that image file into a PDF.  You can OCR it, .
>>> At 09:45 PM 5/27/2009, you wrote:
>>>>Every time I try to open this PDF, it says, "Ellert: empty
>>>>document." I tryed converting it to text, but It won't work. Is
>>>>their some thing wrong with the document? Please email me off list,
>>>>at: rjs59 at hotmail.com Thanks, RJ
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus
>>>>signature database 4113 (20090528) __________
>>>>
>>>>The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.
>>>>
>>>>http://www.eset.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>blindlaw mailing list
>>>>blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>for blindlaw:
>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40vis
i
> .com
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> blindlaw:
>>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in
> sightbb.com
>>
>>
>>
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ----
>>
>>
>>
>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>> Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.46/2145 - Release Date: 
>> 05/31/09
>
>> 05:53:00
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindlaw:
>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob
> al.net
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindlaw:
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie.matney%40gma
> il.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob
al.net 


_______________________________________________
blindlaw mailing list
blindlaw at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
blindlaw:
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et



From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net  Tue Jun  2 16:13:47 2009
From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net)
Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2009 09:13:47 -0700
Subject: [blindlaw] Question
In-Reply-To: <004601c9e33a$d4f25770$7ed70650$@net>
References: <000701c9df3e$5115cf40$a580fe04@rjige047kjawst><auto-000104236006@mailfront2.g2host.com>	<19F4A55C66744C4FB0FF47703F076568@StevePC><8D64D9329C2142A5834CC6A6D4B36C4A@spike>	<4a238eeb.c5c2f10a.6e81.2ef2@mx.google.com><F7DC65D96CD04B58B979B6ED1DEEAAF6@spike>
	<004601c9e33a$d4f25770$7ed70650$@net>
Message-ID: <F6E5E0680DBF4AB1BF7524112AAD3E56@spike>

Thanks.
Chuck
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Bill Spiry" <bspiry at comcast.net>
To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 9:30 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Question


> Pretty easy to do, when kurzwiel is loaded, go to Open a new file (either
> under the file menu or simply with a control-o) and then browse to where 
> you
> have the file you want to convert saved, highlight it and hit enter.
> Kurzwiel will begin the conversion process with your settings as if it was
> converting a newly scanned hard copy document.  You can choose which OCR
> engine you wish to use under the settings menu under the recognition 
> option.
> There will be a dialog box that allows you to change a number of 
> recognition
> options including which engine to use.
>
> Kurzwiel is actually pretty easy and friendly to use with a bit of poking
> around.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net
> Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 9:29 AM
> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Question
>
> I'm not sure if there is or not probably because I never thought to check.
> Chuck
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Angie Matney" <angie.matney at gmail.com>
> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 1:18 AM
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Question
>
>
>> Hi Chuck,
>>
>> Good points about educating others as to which formats work best. One
>> thing,
>> though: You shouldn't need to actually print the document to run OCR on
>> it.
>> Does Kurzweil have a setting to let you open certain types of files? I 
>> use
>> my OCR software of choice (Abbyy Finereader) to access pdf's that do not
>> have imbedded text. I don't have to print the file; I just run  it 
>> through
>> the software. Saves a few trees (grin).
>>
>> Angie
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net
>> Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 3:03 AM
>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Question
>>
>> The only you can get a scanned document to read is to print it out and
>> rescan it using OCR software such as Kurzweil. I spend time educating my
>> clients however as to the format that I need documents in. As many of my
>> clients are nonprofits or public entities that serve various groups I
>> spend
>> some time educating and acquainting them with web accessibility standards
>> and encourage them to use them when they design content.\
>> Chuck
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Steve P. Deeley" <stevep.deeley at insightbb.com>
>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 7:40 AM
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Question
>>
>>
>>> How can you get a scanned document to read.  This seems to be happening
>>> more and more.  I think folks are using copy-printers to scan and send
>>> things like newsletters.  This is frustrating, don't you think?
>>>
>>> Steve-- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: "David Andrews" <dandrews at visi.com>
>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2009 6:48 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Question
>>>
>>>
>>>> This happens when the document contains a graphic, not actual
>>>> text.  Usually this happens because someone scans a document, then
>>>> makes that image file into a PDF.  You can OCR it, .
>>>> At 09:45 PM 5/27/2009, you wrote:
>>>>>Every time I try to open this PDF, it says, "Ellert: empty
>>>>>document." I tryed converting it to text, but It won't work. Is
>>>>>their some thing wrong with the document? Please email me off list,
>>>>>at: rjs59 at hotmail.com Thanks, RJ
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus
>>>>>signature database 4113 (20090528) __________
>>>>>
>>>>>The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.
>>>>>
>>>>>http://www.eset.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>>blindlaw mailing list
>>>>>blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>for blindlaw:
>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40vis
> i
>> .com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in
>> sightbb.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> ----
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>> Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.46/2145 - Release Date:
>>> 05/31/09
>>
>>> 05:53:00
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> blindlaw:
>>>
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob
>> al.net
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindlaw:
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie.matney%40gma
>> il.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindlaw:
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob
> al.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/bspiry%40comcast.n
> et
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net 




From b75205 at gmail.com  Wed Jun  3 14:54:24 2009
From: b75205 at gmail.com (James Pepper)
Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 09:54:24 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] Question
In-Reply-To: <auto-000104236006@mailfront2.g2host.com>
References: <000701c9df3e$5115cf40$a580fe04@rjige047kjawst>
	<auto-000104236006@mailfront2.g2host.com>
Message-ID: <fe5b78280906030754p2779879atf2192ceaf9e20bf8@mail.gmail.com>

Tell them to send the file in the original format.  They had to create the
file, most likely in Microsoft Word and then they converted that into a PDF
file.  Just tell them to send the original document.  If they made the
document using Adobe InDesign, then yes, you are better off scanning it
again, as InDesign makes text all one word.

The problem with scanning a PDf file is that the OCR does not catch
everything and so you are left tryign to figure out what the content is
after you scan it.   That is not your responsibility.

If you send it to me I can change it for you how long is it?

Acrobat Pro has OCR that works fine.
James Pepper

From jweisberg at screncilaw.com  Wed Jun  3 15:14:58 2009
From: jweisberg at screncilaw.com (James Weisberg)
Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 11:14:58 -0400
Subject: [blindlaw] Tim Ford
Message-ID: <FC50B49ED94B8A45A9AA3CE6D096CAED1F2EA3@2K3FS1.screnci.local>

Hey Tim:

 

I had my computer stolen during my move to Florida with your contact
info!  I finally managed to get back on this list with my new email and
get this;  I managed to land a job about a month after getting down
here.  I'm doing immigration and also helping the boss with his state
civil litigation files but cannot yet appear in court until I take the
bar (next Feb.).  After all my complaining about no one hiring blind
lawyers I hooked up with a guy whose father has a similar condition, it
only took about eleven years!  I hope all is well with you.

 

James W. Weisberg, Esq.

Law Office of Stephen W. Screnci, P.A.

2200 N.W. Boca Raton Blvd., Ste. 210

Boca Raton, Florida  33431

V:  (561) 300-3390

F:  (561) 300-3391

Email:  JWeisberg at screncilaw.com

 

This message contains information which may be confidential and
privileged. Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for
the addressee), you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message
or any information contained in this message. If you have received this
message in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete
the message from your system.

 


From Tim.Ford at cdph.ca.gov  Wed Jun  3 17:07:10 2009
From: Tim.Ford at cdph.ca.gov (Ford, Tim (CDPH-OLS))
Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 10:07:10 -0700
Subject: [blindlaw] Tim Ford
In-Reply-To: <FC50B49ED94B8A45A9AA3CE6D096CAED1F2EA3@2K3FS1.screnci.local>
References: <FC50B49ED94B8A45A9AA3CE6D096CAED1F2EA3@2K3FS1.screnci.local>
Message-ID: <839F18076C66C345BD1C0A4ACA67A1F60315BB07@dhsexcmsg12.intra.dhs.ca.gov>

Great news!  I have sent you a longer note in a note directly to your
e-mail address.

Tim Ford

  

-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
On Behalf Of James Weisberg
Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 8:15 AM
To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
Subject: [blindlaw] Tim Ford

Hey Tim:

 

I had my computer stolen during my move to Florida with your contact
info!  I finally managed to get back on this list with my new email and
get this;  I managed to land a job about a month after getting down
here.  I'm doing immigration and also helping the boss with his state
civil litigation files but cannot yet appear in court until I take the
bar (next Feb.).  After all my complaining about no one hiring blind
lawyers I hooked up with a guy whose father has a similar condition, it
only took about eleven years!  I hope all is well with you.

 

James W. Weisberg, Esq.

Law Office of Stephen W. Screnci, P.A.

2200 N.W. Boca Raton Blvd., Ste. 210

Boca Raton, Florida  33431

V:  (561) 300-3390

F:  (561) 300-3391

Email:  JWeisberg at screncilaw.com

 

This message contains information which may be confidential and
privileged. Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for
the addressee), you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message
or any information contained in this message. If you have received this
message in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete
the message from your system.

 

_______________________________________________
blindlaw mailing list
blindlaw at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
blindlaw:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tim.ford%40cdp
h.ca.gov


From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov  Thu Jun  4 23:26:13 2009
From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel)
Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2009 18:26:13 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] FW: Isaac Lidsky, first blind Supreme Court Law Clerk,
 is Keynote Speaker at ABA Conference!
Message-ID: <E771EAA0575B844C98712011AE73D7ED3AD5C905FC@EDUPTCEXMB03.ed.gov>



________________________________
From: Commission on Mental and Physical Disability Law [mailto:cmpdl at abanet.org]
Sent: Thursday, June 04, 2009 10:51 AM
To: Nightingale, Noel
Subject: Isaac Lidsky, first blind Supreme Court Law Clerk, is Keynote Speaker at ABA Conference!

If you cannot view this e-mail, click here<http://maestro.abanet.org/trk/click?ref=zpqri74vj_3-9a50x3c936x1825&>.


Early bird registration rates<http://maestro.abanet.org/trk/click?ref=zpqri74vj_3-9a50x3c880x1825&> are now extended through June 9!


Isaac Lidsky, first blind Supreme Court Law Clerk, Keynote Speaker at ABA Conference!

[http://www.abanet.org/disability/images/2009conferencelogowebsmall.jpg]<http://maestro.abanet.org/trk/click?ref=zpqri74vj_3-9a50x3b902x1825&>At the 2nd ABA National Conference on the Employment of Lawyers with Disabilities'<http://maestro.abanet.org/trk/click?ref=zpqri74vj_3-9a50x3b902x1825&> networking reception on Monday evening, June 15, Isaac J. Lidsky, Esq., Law Clerk to the Honorable Justice Sandra Day O'Connor and the Honorable Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg, Supreme Court of the United States, will deliver a keynote address.

[http://www.abanet.org/disability/images/lidskysmall.jpg]Isaac is also President, Chairman, and Founder of Hope for Vision, a national nonprofit public charity dedicated to funding the development of treatments and cures for blinding disease. Hope for Vision has raised millions of dollars that have gone directly to scientific research. Previously, he was an associate at the law firm of Jones Day, as well as a child television actor.

Be sure to register<http://maestro.abanet.org/trk/click?ref=zpqri74vj_3-9a50x3c880x1825&> for the Conference so you don't miss out on this unique speaking engagement!



________________________________

Your e-mail address will only be used within the ABA and its entities. We do not sell or rent e-mail addresses to anyone outside the ABA.

Update your profile<http://maestro.abanet.org/trk/click?ref=zpqri74vj_3-9a50x311fx1825&> | Unsubscribe<http://maestro.abanet.org/trk/clickp?ref=zpqri74vj_3-9a50x39809x1825&email=noel.nightingale at ed.gov> | Privacy Policy<http://maestro.abanet.org/trk/click?ref=zpqri74vj_3-9a50x341x1825&>

American Bar Association | 321 N Clark | Chicago, IL 60654 | 1-800-285-2221

From Ronza.Othman at dhs.gov  Fri Jun  5 18:29:46 2009
From: Ronza.Othman at dhs.gov (Othman, Ronza)
Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 14:29:46 -0400
Subject: [blindlaw] Vacancy Announcements for CRCL Programs Division and
	Civil Liberties Institute
Message-ID: <74096FB4D17ADA49A21F9BED9B9A33D801410EB7@ZAU1UG-0308.DHSNET.DS1.DHS>


DHS CRCL Programs Division has openings for Program Analysts (Civil
Liberties Impact Assessment focused) open on USA Jobs.  The position
sensitivity is Secret.  The vacancy announcement closes on June 18,
2009.   FS-262229DE-SW09
<http://jobview.usajobs.gov/GetJob.aspx?OPMControl=1580341>
(non-government candidates) and FS-262229MP-SW09
<http://jobview.usajobs.gov/GetJob.aspx?OPMControl=1580345>  (status
candidates).

Civil Liberties Institute also has openings for Program Analysts.  The
following is for a Project Manager (position sensitivity Secret) and
closes on June 18, 2009:  FS-262229DE-SW09
<http://jobview.usajobs.gov/GetJob.aspx?OPMControl=1578670>
(non-government candidates) and FS-262229MP-SW09
<http://jobview.usajobs.gov/GetJob.aspx?OPMControl=1578687>  (status
candidates).  The following is for a Subject Matter Expert (position
sensitivity Top Secret/SCI) and closes on June 18, 2009:
FS-261264DE-SW09
<http://jobview.usajobs.gov/GetJob.aspx?OPMControl=1579049>
(non-government candidates) and FS-262229MP-SW09
<http://jobview.usajobs.gov/GetJob.aspx?OPMControl=1579059>  (status
candidates).

Please forward to anyone who may be eligible and interested.


From peagoody at worldnet.att.net  Sat Jun  6 23:23:01 2009
From: peagoody at worldnet.att.net (Ron Dixon)
Date: Sat, 6 Jun 2009 18:23:01 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] KNFB With Wayfinder
Message-ID: <8FBEDE9BD29D4872B9BA066953959939@rons>

Hi Gang:

I am having a problem with setting the navigations into my Wayfinder GPS.  Is there anybody out there using the Wayfinder with the KNFB scanning Cell phone and can give me some pointers on what I am doing wrong?  At this point, any help is appreciated.  


From carter.tjoseph at gmail.com  Sun Jun  7 04:29:10 2009
From: carter.tjoseph at gmail.com (T. Joseph Carter)
Date: Sat, 6 Jun 2009 21:29:10 -0700
Subject: [blindlaw] KNFB With Wayfinder
In-Reply-To: <8FBEDE9BD29D4872B9BA066953959939@rons>
References: <8FBEDE9BD29D4872B9BA066953959939@rons>
Message-ID: <20090607042910.GB6822@yumi.bluecherry.net>

I think you'd find a better answer asking the list designed for 
techie questions or blindtlk.  I doubt blindlaw is likely to give you 
the best possible answer.

Joseph


On Sat, Jun 06, 2009 at 06:23:01PM -0500, Ron Dixon wrote:
>Hi Gang:
>
>I am having a problem with setting the navigations into my Wayfinder GPS.  Is there anybody out there using the Wayfinder with the KNFB scanning Cell phone and can give me some pointers on what I am doing wrong?  At this point, any help is appreciated.  
>
>_______________________________________________
>blindlaw mailing list
>blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw:
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/carter.tjoseph%40gmail.com


From b75205 at gmail.com  Sun Jun  7 13:18:17 2009
From: b75205 at gmail.com (James Pepper)
Date: Sun, 7 Jun 2009 08:18:17 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] The Census does not track the blind
Message-ID: <fe5b78280906070618h1f7e8995tb7339b76dd38a28d@mail.gmail.com>

We need the US Census to track the blind and the visually impaired. Right
now we are tracked as the disabled which includes everyone who has any kind
of disability.  The government cannot track discrimination because they do
not have the figures.  Everyone has to estimate how many people are disabled
because if they actually knew the numbers then it would be a lot easier to
prove discrimination and nobody wants to make it easier!

They do track Sensory impaired but that includes the deaf, and people with
other sensory problems and of course each population has its own problems.

So who can organize this and cause the Census to track the blind and
visually impaired?

Sincerely,

James G. Pepper

From rjaquiss at earthlink.net  Sun Jun  7 18:24:15 2009
From: rjaquiss at earthlink.net (Robert Jaquiss)
Date: Sun, 7 Jun 2009 13:24:15 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] The Census does not track the blind
References: <fe5b78280906070618h1f7e8995tb7339b76dd38a28d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1B702A664B8A4F40B89CBEBC4D54AC7A@D3DTZP41>

Hello:

     I believe that the U.S. Census did at one time track the number of 
blind individuals. I am of the opinion that the way to get the number of 
blind people counted would be to get a bill passed by Congress. Perhaps some 
sort of section where a variety of disabilities are listed and head of 
household or whoever fills out the census is instructed to "check all that 
apply". This would give the various groups of disabled people accurate data.

Regards,

Robert

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "James Pepper" <b75205 at gmail.com>
To: <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 8:18 AM
Subject: [blindlaw] The Census does not track the blind


> We need the US Census to track the blind and the visually impaired. Right
> now we are tracked as the disabled which includes everyone who has any 
> kind
> of disability.  The government cannot track discrimination because they do
> not have the figures.  Everyone has to estimate how many people are 
> disabled
> because if they actually knew the numbers then it would be a lot easier to
> prove discrimination and nobody wants to make it easier!
>
> They do track Sensory impaired but that includes the deaf, and people with
> other sensory problems and of course each population has its own problems.
>
> So who can organize this and cause the Census to track the blind and
> visually impaired?
>
> Sincerely,
>
> James G. Pepper
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rjaquiss%40earthlink.net 



From carter.tjoseph at gmail.com  Sun Jun  7 19:44:52 2009
From: carter.tjoseph at gmail.com (T. Joseph Carter)
Date: Sun, 7 Jun 2009 12:44:52 -0700
Subject: [blindlaw] The Census does not track the blind
In-Reply-To: <fe5b78280906070618h1f7e8995tb7339b76dd38a28d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <fe5b78280906070618h1f7e8995tb7339b76dd38a28d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090607194452.GA10179@yumi.bluecherry.net>

James,

Note that this is too late for the 2010 census as the job has been 
essentially outsourced and data collection is already underway.  That 
said, I think they should keep data on blindness.  It's just that 
doing something about it is going to have to be a bit more long-term.

Joseph


On Sun, Jun 07, 2009 at 08:18:17AM -0500, James Pepper wrote:
>We need the US Census to track the blind and the visually impaired. Right
>now we are tracked as the disabled which includes everyone who has any kind
>of disability.  The government cannot track discrimination because they do
>not have the figures.  Everyone has to estimate how many people are disabled
>because if they actually knew the numbers then it would be a lot easier to
>prove discrimination and nobody wants to make it easier!
>
>They do track Sensory impaired but that includes the deaf, and people with
>other sensory problems and of course each population has its own problems.
>
>So who can organize this and cause the Census to track the blind and
>visually impaired?
>
>Sincerely,
>
>James G. Pepper
>_______________________________________________
>blindlaw mailing list
>blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw:
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/carter.tjoseph%40gmail.com


From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net  Mon Jun  8 05:39:30 2009
From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net)
Date: Sun, 7 Jun 2009 22:39:30 -0700
Subject: [blindlaw] The Census does not track the blind
In-Reply-To: <fe5b78280906070618h1f7e8995tb7339b76dd38a28d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <fe5b78280906070618h1f7e8995tb7339b76dd38a28d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <36E661A22FB54B868E00AF87F5DB0362@spike>

This is a very valid point. Perhaps NFB needs to address this issue. If its 
going to happen we need to act fast. Perhaps an emergency resolution to 
implement this at the national convention is in order.
Chuck
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "James Pepper" <b75205 at gmail.com>
To: <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 6:18 AM
Subject: [blindlaw] The Census does not track the blind


> We need the US Census to track the blind and the visually impaired. Right
> now we are tracked as the disabled which includes everyone who has any 
> kind
> of disability.  The government cannot track discrimination because they do
> not have the figures.  Everyone has to estimate how many people are 
> disabled
> because if they actually knew the numbers then it would be a lot easier to
> prove discrimination and nobody wants to make it easier!
>
> They do track Sensory impaired but that includes the deaf, and people with
> other sensory problems and of course each population has its own problems.
>
> So who can organize this and cause the Census to track the blind and
> visually impaired?
>
> Sincerely,
>
> James G. Pepper
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net 



From b75205 at gmail.com  Mon Jun  8 06:00:33 2009
From: b75205 at gmail.com (James Pepper)
Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 01:00:33 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] The Census does not track the blind
In-Reply-To: <36E661A22FB54B868E00AF87F5DB0362@spike>
References: <fe5b78280906070618h1f7e8995tb7339b76dd38a28d@mail.gmail.com>
	<36E661A22FB54B868E00AF87F5DB0362@spike>
Message-ID: <fe5b78280906072300s88e75a0le45d85246dac4678@mail.gmail.com>

Jim Dickson of the AAPD testified before Congress for the re-enactment of
ADA last year saying that about 10 million people are of voting age who are
blind or visually impaired.  The American Foundation for the Blind says that
there are 30 million people who are visually impaired in some manner.  The
census has about 1 million people who are sensory impaired including the
deaf between teh ages of 18 and 34.  The CDC has a figure of 6 million
people who have the top 6 principle causes of blindness.  So there is a lot
of room here and we need to know exactly where people are getting lost.

Well the census hasn't started the major work yet because we have not been
activated yet, so there is still room to manuever.  And if Congress acts
fast we can solve this problem quickly.

I suggest a listing of different levels of accessibility.

The legally blind, the visually impaired. The deaf blind, Color blind,
etc. And with the level of education.

James Pepper



On Mon, Jun 8, 2009 at 12:39 AM, <ckrugman at sbcglobal.net> wrote:

> This is a very valid point. Perhaps NFB needs to address this issue. If its
> going to happen we need to act fast. Perhaps an emergency resolution to
> implement this at the national convention is in order.
> Chuck
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Pepper" <b75205 at gmail.com>
> To: <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 6:18 AM
> Subject: [blindlaw] The Census does not track the blind
>
>
>   We need the US Census to track the blind and the visually impaired.
>> Right
>> now we are tracked as the disabled which includes everyone who has any
>> kind
>> of disability.  The government cannot track discrimination because they do
>> not have the figures.  Everyone has to estimate how many people are
>> disabled
>> because if they actually knew the numbers then it would be a lot easier to
>> prove discrimination and nobody wants to make it easier!
>>
>> They do track Sensory impaired but that includes the deaf, and people with
>> other sensory problems and of course each population has its own problems.
>>
>> So who can organize this and cause the Census to track the blind and
>> visually impaired?
>>
>> Sincerely,
>>
>> James G. Pepper
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindlaw:
>>
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindlaw:
>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b75205%40gmail.com
>

From stone_troll at sbcglobal.net  Mon Jun  8 14:54:56 2009
From: stone_troll at sbcglobal.net (Mark BurningHawk)
Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 07:54:56 -0700
Subject: [blindlaw] The Census does not track the blind
In-Reply-To: <fe5b78280906072300s88e75a0le45d85246dac4678@mail.gmail.com>
References: <fe5b78280906070618h1f7e8995tb7339b76dd38a28d@mail.gmail.com>
	<36E661A22FB54B868E00AF87F5DB0362@spike>
	<fe5b78280906072300s88e75a0le45d85246dac4678@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3E867A7A-68C2-4A16-A0A1-21955D355F1A@sbcglobal.net>

If you track the blind as a separate category/statistic in a census,  
does it constitute the creation of a separate class of citizen, and  
can that be used against us?



From benkarpilow at gmail.com  Mon Jun  8 16:10:50 2009
From: benkarpilow at gmail.com (Ben Karpilow)
Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 09:10:50 -0700
Subject: [blindlaw] The Census does not track the blind
References: <fe5b78280906070618h1f7e8995tb7339b76dd38a28d@mail.gmail.com><36E661A22FB54B868E00AF87F5DB0362@spike><fe5b78280906072300s88e75a0le45d85246dac4678@mail.gmail.com>
	<3E867A7A-68C2-4A16-A0A1-21955D355F1A@sbcglobal.net>
Message-ID: <D6DAD10B16C249228BF637C32AC21531@bentar802wznlv>

I  also wondered about that . I'm not sure whether census information on 
blindness would have a   detrimental effect given the already existing 
sources   documenting  blindness  which are often necessary to establish 
protection under the ADA. Technically, the census only gathers statistical 
information unassociated with specifically named individuals.

Ben



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mark BurningHawk" <stone_troll at sbcglobal.net>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 7:54 AM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] The Census does not track the blind


> If you track the blind as a separate category/statistic in a census,  does 
> it constitute the creation of a separate class of citizen, and  can that 
> be used against us?
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/benkarpilow%40gmail.com 



From carter.tjoseph at gmail.com  Mon Jun  8 16:34:34 2009
From: carter.tjoseph at gmail.com (T. Joseph Carter)
Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 09:34:34 -0700
Subject: [blindlaw] The Census does not track the blind
In-Reply-To: <3E867A7A-68C2-4A16-A0A1-21955D355F1A@sbcglobal.net>
References: <fe5b78280906070618h1f7e8995tb7339b76dd38a28d@mail.gmail.com>
	<36E661A22FB54B868E00AF87F5DB0362@spike>
	<fe5b78280906072300s88e75a0le45d85246dac4678@mail.gmail.com>
	<3E867A7A-68C2-4A16-A0A1-21955D355F1A@sbcglobal.net>
Message-ID: <20090608163434.GK12229@yumi.bluecherry.net>

Not really.  Census data is used in statistical analysis of the whole 
population.  That's about all, really.  Remember that we are already 
lumped into the category of blind people.

I note once again that they CANNOT collect data on blindness for this 
census because the data would be invalid.  Census data has already 
been collected without including blindness, therefore unless you go 
back and re-survey every single person (impractical verging on 
impossible), the data cannot be valid.

Joseph

On Mon, Jun 08, 2009 at 07:54:56AM -0700, Mark BurningHawk wrote:
> If you track the blind as a separate category/statistic in a census,  
> does it constitute the creation of a separate class of citizen, and can 
> that be used against us?


From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net  Mon Jun  8 17:31:31 2009
From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net)
Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 10:31:31 -0700
Subject: [blindlaw] The Census does not track the blind
In-Reply-To: <3E867A7A-68C2-4A16-A0A1-21955D355F1A@sbcglobal.net>
References: <fe5b78280906070618h1f7e8995tb7339b76dd38a28d@mail.gmail.com><36E661A22FB54B868E00AF87F5DB0362@spike><fe5b78280906072300s88e75a0le45d85246dac4678@mail.gmail.com>
	<3E867A7A-68C2-4A16-A0A1-21955D355F1A@sbcglobal.net>
Message-ID: <6748BC07330E4BC8B085D266D3FF2B22@spike>

Census data is not generally used against people. This would be no different 
than tracking by race or several censuses ago when they tracked how many 
houses had bath rooms in them.
Chuck
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mark BurningHawk" <stone_troll at sbcglobal.net>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 7:54 AM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] The Census does not track the blind


> If you track the blind as a separate category/statistic in a census,  does 
> it constitute the creation of a separate class of citizen, and  can that 
> be used against us?
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net 



From b75205 at gmail.com  Mon Jun  8 17:54:03 2009
From: b75205 at gmail.com (James Pepper)
Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 12:54:03 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] The Census does not track the blind
In-Reply-To: <20090608163434.GK12229@yumi.bluecherry.net>
References: <fe5b78280906070618h1f7e8995tb7339b76dd38a28d@mail.gmail.com>
	<36E661A22FB54B868E00AF87F5DB0362@spike>
	<fe5b78280906072300s88e75a0le45d85246dac4678@mail.gmail.com>
	<3E867A7A-68C2-4A16-A0A1-21955D355F1A@sbcglobal.net>
	<20090608163434.GK12229@yumi.bluecherry.net>
Message-ID: <fe5b78280906081054k23908eb1ld5a0b108cb1cded9@mail.gmail.com>

Well considering what Congress has been doing lately since when did
impractical come into the mix?



This is a simple civil rights issue and if you want the law try the Voting
Rights Act of 1965.  That law is enabled under the Rehabilitation Act of
1973 and the following laws have all required each state to provide
accessible voter registration forms for voting.  So get yourself into a
federal court and make this a civil rights issue.  Here are the laws:



Rehabilitation Act of 1973

Voting Accessibility for the Elderly and Handicapped Act of 1984

Americans with Disabilities Act of 1990

National Voter Registration Act of 1993

Section 508 of the Rehabilitation Act of 1996

The Help America Vote Act of 2002



The Voter Rights Act required information on race to be acquired to
administer the law.



It should be noted that the voter registration forms are to this day, not
accessible to the blind.  they simply refuse to do it!  Yes voting machines
are accessible but if you cannot register to vote without assistance or
without spending 1100 dollars for a copy of the full version of JAWS, you
cannot do it by yourself.  Meanwhile everyone else can and for free.  I
submit that the added cost to the blind is a Poll Tax.  Also you are
required to draw a map of where you live on the form.  That is a literacy
test!



James Pepper

From jackchenonline at hotmail.com  Mon Jun  8 18:06:50 2009
From: jackchenonline at hotmail.com (Jack Chen)
Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 14:06:50 -0400
Subject: [blindlaw] FW: Isaac Lidsky, first blind Supreme Court Law Clerk,
	is Keynote Speaker at ABA Conference!
References: <E771EAA0575B844C98712011AE73D7ED3AD5C905FC@EDUPTCEXMB03.ed.gov>
Message-ID: <COL0-DAV2066D92550AB397C13D7B0C3470@phx.gbl>

Hi Noel

As it turns out, I will be coming down to DC for the conference.  Hopefully 
I'll have an opportunity to say hello.  Our managing partner, Walt Smith, 
and both of the visually impaired attorneys at the firm will be in 
attendance.  How many folks are you expecting to be there?  Are most people 
from companies or firms?

See you then.

jack
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Nightingale, Noel" <Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov>
To: <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, June 04, 2009 7:26 PM
Subject: [blindlaw] FW: Isaac Lidsky, first blind Supreme Court Law Clerk, 
is Keynote Speaker at ABA Conference!


>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Commission on Mental and Physical Disability Law 
> [mailto:cmpdl at abanet.org]
> Sent: Thursday, June 04, 2009 10:51 AM
> To: Nightingale, Noel
> Subject: Isaac Lidsky, first blind Supreme Court Law Clerk, is Keynote 
> Speaker at ABA Conference!
>
> If you cannot view this e-mail, click 
> here<http://maestro.abanet.org/trk/click?ref=zpqri74vj_3-9a50x3c936x1825&>.
>
>
> Early bird registration 
> rates<http://maestro.abanet.org/trk/click?ref=zpqri74vj_3-9a50x3c880x1825&> 
> are now extended through June 9!
>
>
> Isaac Lidsky, first blind Supreme Court Law Clerk, Keynote Speaker at ABA 
> Conference!
>
> [http://www.abanet.org/disability/images/2009conferencelogowebsmall.jpg]<http://maestro.abanet.org/trk/click?ref=zpqri74vj_3-9a50x3b902x1825&>At 
> the 2nd ABA National Conference on the Employment of Lawyers with 
> Disabilities'<http://maestro.abanet.org/trk/click?ref=zpqri74vj_3-9a50x3b902x1825&> 
> networking reception on Monday evening, June 15, Isaac J. Lidsky, Esq., 
> Law Clerk to the Honorable Justice Sandra Day O'Connor and the Honorable 
> Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg, Supreme Court of the United States, will 
> deliver a keynote address.
>
> [http://www.abanet.org/disability/images/lidskysmall.jpg]Isaac is also 
> President, Chairman, and Founder of Hope for Vision, a national nonprofit 
> public charity dedicated to funding the development of treatments and 
> cures for blinding disease. Hope for Vision has raised millions of dollars 
> that have gone directly to scientific research. Previously, he was an 
> associate at the law firm of Jones Day, as well as a child television 
> actor.
>
> Be sure to 
> register<http://maestro.abanet.org/trk/click?ref=zpqri74vj_3-9a50x3c880x1825&> 
> for the Conference so you don't miss out on this unique speaking 
> engagement!
>
>
>
> ________________________________
>
> Your e-mail address will only be used within the ABA and its entities. We 
> do not sell or rent e-mail addresses to anyone outside the ABA.
>
> Update your 
> profile<http://maestro.abanet.org/trk/click?ref=zpqri74vj_3-9a50x311fx1825&> 
> | 
> Unsubscribe<http://maestro.abanet.org/trk/clickp?ref=zpqri74vj_3-9a50x39809x1825&email=noel.nightingale at ed.gov> 
> | Privacy 
> Policy<http://maestro.abanet.org/trk/click?ref=zpqri74vj_3-9a50x341x1825&>
>
> American Bar Association | 321 N Clark | Chicago, IL 60654 | 
> 1-800-285-2221
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jackchenonline%40hotmail.com
> 



From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net  Mon Jun  8 18:08:18 2009
From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net)
Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 11:08:18 -0700
Subject: [blindlaw] The Census does not track the blind
In-Reply-To: <fe5b78280906081054k23908eb1ld5a0b108cb1cded9@mail.gmail.com>
References: <fe5b78280906070618h1f7e8995tb7339b76dd38a28d@mail.gmail.com><36E661A22FB54B868E00AF87F5DB0362@spike><fe5b78280906072300s88e75a0le45d85246dac4678@mail.gmail.com><3E867A7A-68C2-4A16-A0A1-21955D355F1A@sbcglobal.net><20090608163434.GK12229@yumi.bluecherry.net>
	<fe5b78280906081054k23908eb1ld5a0b108cb1cded9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4D4A9B091BE94A7EA9F02FCF8BF653C8@spike>

I don't know about other states but in California no one is required to draw 
maps on voter registration forms. While it might be nice to have all forms 
accessible I have supervised the registration of hundreds of voters most 
newly naturalized citizens who request help with voter registration as it 
speeds up their registration process after they are naturalized. With 
current budgget deficits at hand we need to choose our battles wisely, 
otherwise we lose more in the long run. We do not live in a perfect world.
Chuck
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "James Pepper" <b75205 at gmail.com>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 10:54 AM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] The Census does not track the blind


> Well considering what Congress has been doing lately since when did
> impractical come into the mix?
>
>
>
> This is a simple civil rights issue and if you want the law try the Voting
> Rights Act of 1965.  That law is enabled under the Rehabilitation Act of
> 1973 and the following laws have all required each state to provide
> accessible voter registration forms for voting.  So get yourself into a
> federal court and make this a civil rights issue.  Here are the laws:
>
>
>
> Rehabilitation Act of 1973
>
> Voting Accessibility for the Elderly and Handicapped Act of 1984
>
> Americans with Disabilities Act of 1990
>
> National Voter Registration Act of 1993
>
> Section 508 of the Rehabilitation Act of 1996
>
> The Help America Vote Act of 2002
>
>
>
> The Voter Rights Act required information on race to be acquired to
> administer the law.
>
>
>
> It should be noted that the voter registration forms are to this day, not
> accessible to the blind.  they simply refuse to do it!  Yes voting 
> machines
> are accessible but if you cannot register to vote without assistance or
> without spending 1100 dollars for a copy of the full version of JAWS, you
> cannot do it by yourself.  Meanwhile everyone else can and for free.  I
> submit that the added cost to the blind is a Poll Tax.  Also you are
> required to draw a map of where you live on the form.  That is a literacy
> test!
>
>
>
> James Pepper
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net 



From stone_troll at sbcglobal.net  Mon Jun  8 18:32:57 2009
From: stone_troll at sbcglobal.net (Mark BurningHawk)
Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 11:32:57 -0700
Subject: [blindlaw] The Census does not track the blind
In-Reply-To: <20090608163434.GK12229@yumi.bluecherry.net>
References: <fe5b78280906070618h1f7e8995tb7339b76dd38a28d@mail.gmail.com>
	<36E661A22FB54B868E00AF87F5DB0362@spike>
	<fe5b78280906072300s88e75a0le45d85246dac4678@mail.gmail.com>
	<3E867A7A-68C2-4A16-A0A1-21955D355F1A@sbcglobal.net>
	<20090608163434.GK12229@yumi.bluecherry.net>
Message-ID: <4238E98A-1A54-42DA-A7E0-33E1EABED30A@sbcglobal.net>

Am I supposed to fill out a form or something?  I haven't noticed one.



From jackchenonline at hotmail.com  Mon Jun  8 18:38:17 2009
From: jackchenonline at hotmail.com (Jack Chen)
Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 14:38:17 -0400
Subject: [blindlaw] FW: Isaac Lidsky, first blind Supreme Court Law Clerk,
	is Keynote Speaker at ABA Conference!
References: <E771EAA0575B844C98712011AE73D7ED3AD5C905FC@EDUPTCEXMB03.ed.gov>
	<COL0-DAV2066D92550AB397C13D7B0C3470@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <COL0-DAV41E9774AA0FBEED675DB47C3470@phx.gbl>

Apologies to the list for my inadvertent reply to all.


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jack Chen" <jackchenonline at hotmail.com>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 2:06 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] FW: Isaac Lidsky, first blind Supreme Court Law 
Clerk,is Keynote Speaker at ABA Conference!


> Hi Noel
>
> As it turns out, I will be coming down to DC for the conference. 
> Hopefully I'll have an opportunity to say hello.  Our managing partner, 
> Walt Smith, and both of the visually impaired attorneys at the firm will 
> be in attendance.  How many folks are you expecting to be there?  Are most 
> people from companies or firms?
>
> See you then.
>
> jack
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Nightingale, Noel" <Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov>
> To: <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Thursday, June 04, 2009 7:26 PM
> Subject: [blindlaw] FW: Isaac Lidsky, first blind Supreme Court Law Clerk, 
> is Keynote Speaker at ABA Conference!
>
>
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: Commission on Mental and Physical Disability Law 
>> [mailto:cmpdl at abanet.org]
>> Sent: Thursday, June 04, 2009 10:51 AM
>> To: Nightingale, Noel
>> Subject: Isaac Lidsky, first blind Supreme Court Law Clerk, is Keynote 
>> Speaker at ABA Conference!
>>
>> If you cannot view this e-mail, click 
>> here<http://maestro.abanet.org/trk/click?ref=zpqri74vj_3-9a50x3c936x1825&>.
>>
>>
>> Early bird registration 
>> rates<http://maestro.abanet.org/trk/click?ref=zpqri74vj_3-9a50x3c880x1825&> 
>> are now extended through June 9!
>>
>>
>> Isaac Lidsky, first blind Supreme Court Law Clerk, Keynote Speaker at ABA 
>> Conference!
>>
>> [http://www.abanet.org/disability/images/2009conferencelogowebsmall.jpg]<http://maestro.abanet.org/trk/click?ref=zpqri74vj_3-9a50x3b902x1825&>At 
>> the 2nd ABA National Conference on the Employment of Lawyers with 
>> Disabilities'<http://maestro.abanet.org/trk/click?ref=zpqri74vj_3-9a50x3b902x1825&> 
>> networking reception on Monday evening, June 15, Isaac J. Lidsky, Esq., 
>> Law Clerk to the Honorable Justice Sandra Day O'Connor and the Honorable 
>> Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg, Supreme Court of the United States, will 
>> deliver a keynote address.
>>
>> [http://www.abanet.org/disability/images/lidskysmall.jpg]Isaac is also 
>> President, Chairman, and Founder of Hope for Vision, a national nonprofit 
>> public charity dedicated to funding the development of treatments and 
>> cures for blinding disease. Hope for Vision has raised millions of 
>> dollars that have gone directly to scientific research. Previously, he 
>> was an associate at the law firm of Jones Day, as well as a child 
>> television actor.
>>
>> Be sure to 
>> register<http://maestro.abanet.org/trk/click?ref=zpqri74vj_3-9a50x3c880x1825&> 
>> for the Conference so you don't miss out on this unique speaking 
>> engagement!
>>
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>>
>> Your e-mail address will only be used within the ABA and its entities. We 
>> do not sell or rent e-mail addresses to anyone outside the ABA.
>>
>> Update your 
>> profile<http://maestro.abanet.org/trk/click?ref=zpqri74vj_3-9a50x311fx1825&> 
>> | 
>> Unsubscribe<http://maestro.abanet.org/trk/clickp?ref=zpqri74vj_3-9a50x39809x1825&email=noel.nightingale at ed.gov> 
>> | Privacy 
>> Policy<http://maestro.abanet.org/trk/click?ref=zpqri74vj_3-9a50x341x1825&>
>>
>> American Bar Association | 321 N Clark | Chicago, IL 60654 | 
>> 1-800-285-2221
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> blindlaw:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jackchenonline%40hotmail.com
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jackchenonline%40hotmail.com
> 



From b75205 at gmail.com  Mon Jun  8 22:23:18 2009
From: b75205 at gmail.com (James Pepper)
Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 17:23:18 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] The Census does not track the blind
In-Reply-To: <4D4A9B091BE94A7EA9F02FCF8BF653C8@spike>
References: <fe5b78280906070618h1f7e8995tb7339b76dd38a28d@mail.gmail.com>
	<36E661A22FB54B868E00AF87F5DB0362@spike>
	<fe5b78280906072300s88e75a0le45d85246dac4678@mail.gmail.com>
	<3E867A7A-68C2-4A16-A0A1-21955D355F1A@sbcglobal.net>
	<20090608163434.GK12229@yumi.bluecherry.net>
	<fe5b78280906081054k23908eb1ld5a0b108cb1cded9@mail.gmail.com>
	<4D4A9B091BE94A7EA9F02FCF8BF653C8@spike>
Message-ID: <fe5b78280906081523wd8cffc2ub5da954f0b4e80b4@mail.gmail.com>

In Arkansas you are required to draw the map.  When I asked the state
official in charge of voting she said that people have been able to do it in
the past adn nobody complained and they needed it for their workers to find
people on the maps. I suggested using GPS.

Voter registration is run by the Elections Assistance Commission  which is
part of the Federal Elections Commission, so the fight would be against the
Federal Government and not the States directly.

James Pepper

From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net  Tue Jun  9 00:07:39 2009
From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net)
Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 17:07:39 -0700
Subject: [blindlaw] The Census does not track the blind
In-Reply-To: <4238E98A-1A54-42DA-A7E0-33E1EABED30A@sbcglobal.net>
References: <fe5b78280906070618h1f7e8995tb7339b76dd38a28d@mail.gmail.com><36E661A22FB54B868E00AF87F5DB0362@spike><fe5b78280906072300s88e75a0le45d85246dac4678@mail.gmail.com><3E867A7A-68C2-4A16-A0A1-21955D355F1A@sbcglobal.net><20090608163434.GK12229@yumi.bluecherry.net>
	<4238E98A-1A54-42DA-A7E0-33E1EABED30A@sbcglobal.net>
Message-ID: <B96FEF8978D74247A45318DD7A3C76C1@spike>

In 2010 you will receive a census form in the mail or else there will be 
PSA's telling you to call a number if you need help filling out the form. In 
some cases census enumerators will canvas your neighborhood and come to your 
home. At least this is how it was done in 2000.
Chuck
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mark BurningHawk" <stone_troll at sbcglobal.net>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 11:32 AM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] The Census does not track the blind


> Am I supposed to fill out a form or something?  I haven't noticed one.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net 



From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net  Tue Jun  9 00:14:11 2009
From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net)
Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 17:14:11 -0700
Subject: [blindlaw] the census
Message-ID: <9F05FEF79CFA4269AFA323786F699EBB@spike>

While the census does not specifically identify individuals that fall in to a category the potential data obtained from tracking the number of blind people can be used to determine funding for various programs and services as census data is broken down in to cdensus tracts which are the equivalent of a neighborhood or section of a city. Documentation and funding for many social service programs is determined by census tract. This especially holds true for such Federal programs as CDBG or Community Development Block Grant fudns that are administered through the Department of Housing and Urban Development.
Chuck

From stevep.deeley at insightbb.com  Tue Jun  9 00:53:13 2009
From: stevep.deeley at insightbb.com (Steve P. Deeley)
Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 20:53:13 -0400
Subject: [blindlaw] The Census does not track the blind
In-Reply-To: <B96FEF8978D74247A45318DD7A3C76C1@spike>
References: <fe5b78280906070618h1f7e8995tb7339b76dd38a28d@mail.gmail.com>
	<36E661A22FB54B868E00AF87F5DB0362@spike>
	<fe5b78280906072300s88e75a0le45d85246dac4678@mail.gmail.com>
	<3E867A7A-68C2-4A16-A0A1-21955D355F1A@sbcglobal.net>
	<20090608163434.GK12229@yumi.bluecherry.net>
	<4238E98A-1A54-42DA-A7E0-33E1EABED30A@sbcglobal.net>
	<B96FEF8978D74247A45318DD7A3C76C1@spike>
Message-ID: <661F25857E314DE3B55027D8658E5E95@StevePC>

Are there questions pertaining to the type and number of disabled 
individuals residing in a home?

Steve
----- Original Message ----- 
From: <ckrugman at sbcglobal.net>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 8:07 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] The Census does not track the blind


> In 2010 you will receive a census form in the mail or else there will be
> PSA's telling you to call a number if you need help filling out the form. 
> In
> some cases census enumerators will canvas your neighborhood and come to 
> your
> home. At least this is how it was done in 2000.
> Chuck
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Mark BurningHawk" <stone_troll at sbcglobal.net>
> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 11:32 AM
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] The Census does not track the blind
>
>
>> Am I supposed to fill out a form or something?  I haven't noticed one.
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindlaw:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



No virus found in this incoming message.
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17:59:00



From stevep.deeley at insightbb.com  Tue Jun  9 01:16:45 2009
From: stevep.deeley at insightbb.com (Steve P. Deeley)
Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 21:16:45 -0400
Subject: [blindlaw] the census
In-Reply-To: <9F05FEF79CFA4269AFA323786F699EBB@spike>
References: <9F05FEF79CFA4269AFA323786F699EBB@spike>
Message-ID: <3DDEFE0930DA439CBBD674DD9F16E36D@StevePC>

So census questions do not deal with specific disabilities you or your 
family may have?
----- Original Message ----- 
From: <ckrugman at sbcglobal.net>
To: <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 8:14 PM
Subject: [blindlaw] the census


> While the census does not specifically identify individuals that fall in 
> to a category the potential data obtained from tracking the number of 
> blind people can be used to determine funding for various programs and 
> services as census data is broken down in to cdensus tracts which are the 
> equivalent of a neighborhood or section of a city. Documentation and 
> funding for many social service programs is determined by census tract. 
> This especially holds true for such Federal programs as CDBG or Community 
> Development Block Grant fudns that are administered through the Department 
> of Housing and Urban Development.
> Chuck
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.58/2164 - Release Date: 06/08/09 
17:59:00



From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net  Tue Jun  9 01:43:24 2009
From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net)
Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 18:43:24 -0700
Subject: [blindlaw] The Census does not track the blind
In-Reply-To: <661F25857E314DE3B55027D8658E5E95@StevePC>
References: <fe5b78280906070618h1f7e8995tb7339b76dd38a28d@mail.gmail.com><36E661A22FB54B868E00AF87F5DB0362@spike><fe5b78280906072300s88e75a0le45d85246dac4678@mail.gmail.com><3E867A7A-68C2-4A16-A0A1-21955D355F1A@sbcglobal.net><20090608163434.GK12229@yumi.bluecherry.net><4238E98A-1A54-42DA-A7E0-33E1EABED30A@sbcglobal.net><B96FEF8978D74247A45318DD7A3C76C1@spike>
	<661F25857E314DE3B55027D8658E5E95@StevePC>
Message-ID: <CDE27A9EA70E459480E9C7864A2C0ADC@spike>

The questions vary for each census. There can be various factors that are 
potentially addressed by the census. In the past I think there were some 
general questions about it but I don't remember for sure.
Chuck
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Steve P. Deeley" <stevep.deeley at insightbb.com>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 5:53 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] The Census does not track the blind


> Are there questions pertaining to the type and number of disabled 
> individuals residing in a home?
>
> Steve
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: <ckrugman at sbcglobal.net>
> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 8:07 PM
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] The Census does not track the blind
>
>
>> In 2010 you will receive a census form in the mail or else there will be
>> PSA's telling you to call a number if you need help filling out the form. 
>> In
>> some cases census enumerators will canvas your neighborhood and come to 
>> your
>> home. At least this is how it was done in 2000.
>> Chuck
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Mark BurningHawk" <stone_troll at sbcglobal.net>
>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 11:32 AM
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] The Census does not track the blind
>>
>>
>>> Am I supposed to fill out a form or something?  I haven't noticed one.
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> blindlaw:
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> blindlaw:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.58/2164 - Release Date: 06/08/09 
> 17:59:00
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net 



From carter.tjoseph at gmail.com  Tue Jun  9 03:38:19 2009
From: carter.tjoseph at gmail.com (T. Joseph Carter)
Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 20:38:19 -0700
Subject: [blindlaw] The Census does not track the blind
In-Reply-To: <B96FEF8978D74247A45318DD7A3C76C1@spike>
References: <4238E98A-1A54-42DA-A7E0-33E1EABED30A@sbcglobal.net>
	<B96FEF8978D74247A45318DD7A3C76C1@spike>
Message-ID: <20090609033819.GD18034@yumi.bluecherry.net>

Chuck,

Census enumerators have already been canvasing neighborhoods for the 
2010 census.  Hence the reason why I say that it is essentially 
impossible to round up every single person who has already provided 
information and find out if any of them are blind.

It's like dropping a few bags of confetti from a balloon and then 
deciding half an hour later to go and pick up every little piece of 
confetti.  You won't get it all.  The thing is, we're talking 
statistics here: If you don't get it all, it doesn't count.

If we wanted this for 2010, we needed to have gotten to work on it a 
year ago.  We didn't, so we'll have to wait for 2020.

Joseph


On Mon, Jun 08, 2009 at 05:07:39PM -0700, ckrugman at sbcglobal.net wrote:
> In 2010 you will receive a census form in the mail or else there will be  
> PSA's telling you to call a number if you need help filling out the form. 
> In some cases census enumerators will canvas your neighborhood and come 
> to your home. At least this is how it was done in 2000.
> Chuck
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark BurningHawk" 
> <stone_troll at sbcglobal.net>
> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 11:32 AM
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] The Census does not track the blind
>
>
>> Am I supposed to fill out a form or something?  I haven't noticed one.
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for  
>> blindlaw:
  
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net 
>> 
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/carter.tjoseph%40gmail.com


From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net  Tue Jun  9 06:06:40 2009
From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net)
Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 23:06:40 -0700
Subject: [blindlaw] The Census does not track the blind
In-Reply-To: <20090609033819.GD18034@yumi.bluecherry.net>
References: <4238E98A-1A54-42DA-A7E0-33E1EABED30A@sbcglobal.net><B96FEF8978D74247A45318DD7A3C76C1@spike>
	<20090609033819.GD18034@yumi.bluecherry.net>
Message-ID: <F405FAAA797B4605A397A8FED1FB73F2@spike>

They haven't started here yet. They just finished their hiring and training 
within the last month or so.
Chuck
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "T. Joseph Carter" <carter.tjoseph at gmail.com>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 8:38 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] The Census does not track the blind


> Chuck,
>
> Census enumerators have already been canvasing neighborhoods for the 2010 
> census.  Hence the reason why I say that it is essentially impossible to 
> round up every single person who has already provided information and find 
> out if any of them are blind.
>
> It's like dropping a few bags of confetti from a balloon and then deciding 
> half an hour later to go and pick up every little piece of confetti.  You 
> won't get it all.  The thing is, we're talking statistics here: If you 
> don't get it all, it doesn't count.
>
> If we wanted this for 2010, we needed to have gotten to work on it a year 
> ago.  We didn't, so we'll have to wait for 2020.
>
> Joseph
>
>
> On Mon, Jun 08, 2009 at 05:07:39PM -0700, ckrugman at sbcglobal.net wrote:
>> In 2010 you will receive a census form in the mail or else there will be 
>> PSA's telling you to call a number if you need help filling out the form. 
>> In some cases census enumerators will canvas your neighborhood and come 
>> to your home. At least this is how it was done in 2000.
>> Chuck
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark BurningHawk" 
>> <stone_troll at sbcglobal.net>
>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 11:32 AM
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] The Census does not track the blind
>>
>>
>>> Am I supposed to fill out a form or something?  I haven't noticed one.
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>>> blindlaw:
>
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> blindlaw:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/carter.tjoseph%40gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net 




From Bennett.Prows at HHS.GOV  Tue Jun  9 13:55:32 2009
From: Bennett.Prows at HHS.GOV (Prows, Bennett (HHS/OCR))
Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 09:55:32 -0400
Subject: [blindlaw] Vacancy Announcement Trial Attorney EEOC Seattle Field
	Office
Message-ID: <9CDA99CD650C5544ACEADDB63CCD70D1016DF5B8@AVN3VS032.ees.hhs.gov>

Below is some information about an opening in Seattle.  Can probably
find the full information at USA jobs, which is the government web site
for employment opportunities.  According to an E-mail I was copied on,
(lousy grammar), this is a GS12-13 position.

 

/s/

 

Bennett Prows, J.D.

 

 

Are you motivated in helping people?  Do you enjoy challenging but
satisfying work?  Why search any longer-- we have just the opportunity
that you've been looking for!  The Equal Employment Opportunity
Commission (EEOC) is an exciting and progressive organization comprised
of highly motivated individuals committed to service in helping in the
eradication of discrimination in the workplace.  Come join us and make a
difference.

 

You will serve as a Trial Attorney in an EEOC field office Legal Unit
with the responsibility of preparing and presenting some of the most
complex cases for civil litigation of discriminatory employment
practices under the full range of Federal statutes enforced by the EEOC
which includes the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA), Age
Discrimination in Employment Act (ADEA), Equal Pay Act (EPA), and Title
VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 (as amended), in furthering EEOC's
strategic enforcement and litigation plans and priorities.

 

Key Requirements:

 

 

Current BAR License in Good Standing 

 

 

Earned LL.B. or J.D. Degree 

 

 

This position is in the Excepted Service 

 

 

U.S. Citizenship

 


From carter.tjoseph at gmail.com  Tue Jun  9 14:10:19 2009
From: carter.tjoseph at gmail.com (T. Joseph Carter)
Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 07:10:19 -0700
Subject: [blindlaw] The Census does not track the blind
In-Reply-To: <F405FAAA797B4605A397A8FED1FB73F2@spike>
References: <20090609033819.GD18034@yumi.bluecherry.net>
	<F405FAAA797B4605A397A8FED1FB73F2@spike>
Message-ID: <20090609141019.GI18034@yumi.bluecherry.net>

Yeah, but unless all of the data measures a thing, none of it does.  
That's how statistics work.  Community Organizers are hard at work 
here in Oregon and at least the three major cities in Oregon (plus my 
little town) have been canvased.

Right-leaning boards and blogs have been abuzz for months with 
bellyaching about important-acting people with badges and everything 
trying to count every single politically advantageous person to the 
left a year early and not taking "Come back in 2010" for an answer.

Left-leaning boards and blogs have had little complaint.  Of course, 
this is one of those metrics upon which I imagine the politically 
polarized are equal opportunity whiners.  The roles would be reversed 
if Sen. McCain had won.

Joseph


On Mon, Jun 08, 2009 at 11:06:40PM -0700, ckrugman at sbcglobal.net wrote:
> They haven't started here yet. They just finished their hiring and 
> training within the last month or so.
> Chuck
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "T. Joseph Carter" 
> <carter.tjoseph at gmail.com>
> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 8:38 PM
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] The Census does not track the blind
>
>
>> Chuck,
>>
>> Census enumerators have already been canvasing neighborhoods for the 
>> 2010 census.  Hence the reason why I say that it is essentially 
>> impossible to round up every single person who has already provided 
>> information and find out if any of them are blind.
>>
>> It's like dropping a few bags of confetti from a balloon and then 
>> deciding half an hour later to go and pick up every little piece of 
>> confetti.  You won't get it all.  The thing is, we're talking 
>> statistics here: If you don't get it all, it doesn't count.
>>
>> If we wanted this for 2010, we needed to have gotten to work on it a 
>> year ago.  We didn't, so we'll have to wait for 2020.
>>
>> Joseph
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Jun 08, 2009 at 05:07:39PM -0700, ckrugman at sbcglobal.net wrote:
>>> In 2010 you will receive a census form in the mail or else there will 
>>> be PSA's telling you to call a number if you need help filling out 
>>> the form. In some cases census enumerators will canvas your 
>>> neighborhood and come to your home. At least this is how it was done 
>>> in 2000.
>>> Chuck
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark BurningHawk"  
>>> <stone_troll at sbcglobal.net>
>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 11:32 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] The Census does not track the blind
>>>
>>>
>>>> Am I supposed to fill out a form or something?  I haven't noticed one.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>> for blindlaw:
>>
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>>> blindlaw:
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/carter.tjoseph%40gmail.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for  
>> blindlaw:
  
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net 
>> 
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/carter.tjoseph%40gmail.com


From craig.borne at dot.gov  Tue Jun  9 14:31:30 2009
From: craig.borne at dot.gov (craig.borne at dot.gov)
Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 10:31:30 -0400
Subject: [blindlaw] FW: EEO Specialist GS-260-12
Message-ID: <61017FCC3706464B8ACB770A8038174E4CC915@OSTMAIL03VS3.ad.dot.gov>

From: Jones, Jennifer (OST)
To: Pacheco, Beatrice (OST)
Cc: Ford, Frederick (OST)
Sent: Fri Jun 05 13:27:24 2009
Subject: EEO Specialist GS-260-12

Hello, 

 

The vacancy announcement for the position of EEO Specialist, GS-260-12
in Civil Rights opened Friday, June 05, 2009 and will close on Monday,
June 15, 2009.  Please use the link below to access the position on
USAJOBS.

 

http://jobview.usajobs.gov/GetJob.aspx?JobID=81357996&JobTitle=EEO+Speci
alist%2c+GS-260-12++BC&q=Department+of+Transportation&jbf574=TD01&lid=17
514&jbf522=&salmin=&salmax=&fedemp=Y&sort=rv&vw=d&ss=0&brd=3876&fedpub=Y
&caller=%2fagency_search.asp&submit1.x=93&submit1.y=13&AVSDM=2009-06-05+
00%3a03%3a00

 

Please let me know if you have any questions. 

 

Thank you, 

Jennifer Jones

Human Resources Specialist

Office of the Secretary of Transportation/DOT

Human Resources Operations 

P (202) 366-9449

Fax (202) 366-3733

Please take a moment to complete our customer survey.  
**OST and RITA (HQ) Human Resources Customer Survey**
<blocked::http://status.dot.gov/surveys/TakeSurvey.asp?PageNumber=1&Surv
eyID=mM1l531M29931> 

Your feedback is greatly appreciated. 

 


From b75205 at gmail.com  Tue Jun  9 16:50:23 2009
From: b75205 at gmail.com (James Pepper)
Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 11:50:23 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] The Census does not track the blind
In-Reply-To: <20090609141019.GI18034@yumi.bluecherry.net>
References: <20090609033819.GD18034@yumi.bluecherry.net>
	<F405FAAA797B4605A397A8FED1FB73F2@spike>
	<20090609141019.GI18034@yumi.bluecherry.net>
Message-ID: <fe5b78280906090950h2974859ao745a811589a019e@mail.gmail.com>

Well they are still training people here and if you are saying they are
trying to get the census done in 2009 because they are afraid of the 2010
elections then your state is already scewed.  Thats perfect for a case right
there!  ARe you saying that democrats are afraid of the 2010 election so
they are trying to get the census done as fast as they can?  That's
patheitc!

There is a reason why it is done every 10 years, so we get the accurate
political viewpoint of an election year and who is voting where! We need to
know who is in what district and how to draw the districts so that the
congressional representation represents the people.  Also given our economy
and that millions of people are loosing their homes, it is a time of great
transition and it is the census of 2010, so it should represent the
population of 2010.

James Pepper

From dtomblin at hotmail.com  Tue Jun  9 18:05:24 2009
From: dtomblin at hotmail.com (Darren Tomblin)
Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 18:05:24 +0000
Subject: [blindlaw] hello
Message-ID: <BLU139-W370AC8A20AC4E93A86EEBBD4440@phx.gbl>


Dear friend, 
 
Sorry to disturb you because of this message! I would like to introduce a good company who trades mainly in electornic products. Our company mainly in electronic products: laptops, cameras, televisions, mobile phones, radio stations, and so on. It is facing to wholesalers,retailers, and personal customer all over the world. Original Products + Best Quality +Brand New + Warranty + Quick Shipping + 100% Secure = 100% satisfied. 
 
For more, please visit (www.)tpvsw.com 
_________________________________________________________________
Lauren found her dream laptop. Find the PC that’s right for you.
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/choosepc/?ocid=ftp_val_wl_290

From carter.tjoseph at gmail.com  Tue Jun  9 21:15:28 2009
From: carter.tjoseph at gmail.com (T. Joseph Carter)
Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 14:15:28 -0700
Subject: [blindlaw] The Census does not track the blind
In-Reply-To: <fe5b78280906090950h2974859ao745a811589a019e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20090609033819.GD18034@yumi.bluecherry.net>
	<F405FAAA797B4605A397A8FED1FB73F2@spike>
	<20090609141019.GI18034@yumi.bluecherry.net>
	<fe5b78280906090950h2974859ao745a811589a019e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090609211528.GB684@yumi.bluecherry.net>

I'm saying nothing of the sort.  I do not fully understand the 
political motivations involved for and against.  What I do understand 
is that data collection has been underway for more than a month now, 
and it's too late to change the rules as to what data is collected.

Joseph


On Tue, Jun 09, 2009 at 11:50:23AM -0500, James Pepper wrote:
>Well they are still training people here and if you are saying they are
>trying to get the census done in 2009 because they are afraid of the 2010
>elections then your state is already scewed.  Thats perfect for a case right
>there!  ARe you saying that democrats are afraid of the 2010 election so
>they are trying to get the census done as fast as they can?  That's
>patheitc!
>
>There is a reason why it is done every 10 years, so we get the accurate
>political viewpoint of an election year and who is voting where! We need to
>know who is in what district and how to draw the districts so that the
>congressional representation represents the people.  Also given our economy
>and that millions of people are loosing their homes, it is a time of great
>transition and it is the census of 2010, so it should represent the
>population of 2010.
>
>James Pepper
>_______________________________________________
>blindlaw mailing list
>blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw:
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/carter.tjoseph%40gmail.com


From b75205 at gmail.com  Tue Jun  9 22:28:23 2009
From: b75205 at gmail.com (James Pepper)
Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 17:28:23 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] The Census does not track the blind
In-Reply-To: <20090609211528.GB684@yumi.bluecherry.net>
References: <20090609033819.GD18034@yumi.bluecherry.net>
	<F405FAAA797B4605A397A8FED1FB73F2@spike>
	<20090609141019.GI18034@yumi.bluecherry.net>
	<fe5b78280906090950h2974859ao745a811589a019e@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090609211528.GB684@yumi.bluecherry.net>
Message-ID: <fe5b78280906091528y2e1a49dao38c951015f31ef12@mail.gmail.com>

It is never too late, and what we need is to bring this up at the
convention. We really do not need Oregon's results anyway the census takes
data from all over the place and many states do not cooperate with all of
the census taking anyway, so whats the problem?

Also we should get the AAPD involved in this effort.
But what we definitely need is some idea as to how many people are affected,
what is their economic position, did they go to college, did they get a
degree, this stuff is essential to developing policy and waiting for this to
happen 10 years from now will not do!

This is a civil rights issue and if we go around saying oh no  we cannot
upset the apple cart then fine we will go around you.

James Pepper

From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net  Wed Jun 10 00:05:01 2009
From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net)
Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 17:05:01 -0700
Subject: [blindlaw] hello
In-Reply-To: <BLU139-W370AC8A20AC4E93A86EEBBD4440@phx.gbl>
References: <BLU139-W370AC8A20AC4E93A86EEBBD4440@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <9541A499B2D34A558AF5F06241DD0ABF@spike>

It would be interesting to know how we can get SPAM posted on this list as 
this email is definitely Spam and if the originator is a member of this list 
his computer has been hijacked.
Chuck
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Darren Tomblin" <dtomblin at hotmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2009 11:05 AM
Subject: [blindlaw] hello



Dear friend,

Sorry to disturb you because of this message! I would like to introduce a 
good company who trades mainly in electornic products. Our company mainly in 
electronic products: laptops, cameras, televisions, mobile phones, radio 
stations, and so on. It is facing to wholesalers,retailers, and personal 
customer all over the world. Original Products + Best Quality +Brand New + 
Warranty + Quick Shipping + 100% Secure = 100% satisfied.

For more, please visit (www.)tpvsw.com
_________________________________________________________________
Lauren found her dream laptop. Find the PC thatÂ’s right for you.
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/choosepc/?ocid=ftp_val_wl_290
_______________________________________________
blindlaw mailing list
blindlaw at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
blindlaw:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net 



From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net  Wed Jun 10 01:48:16 2009
From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net)
Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 18:48:16 -0700
Subject: [blindlaw] The Census does not track the blind
In-Reply-To: <fe5b78280906091528y2e1a49dao38c951015f31ef12@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20090609033819.GD18034@yumi.bluecherry.net><F405FAAA797B4605A397A8FED1FB73F2@spike><20090609141019.GI18034@yumi.bluecherry.net><fe5b78280906090950h2974859ao745a811589a019e@mail.gmail.com><20090609211528.GB684@yumi.bluecherry.net>
	<fe5b78280906091528y2e1a49dao38c951015f31ef12@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <52A0119CA8C64126829104163F0BCB17@spike>

Actually, the states have nothing to do with census collection as according 
to the U.S. Constitution the collection of census data is the responsibility 
of the Federal government.
Chuck
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "James Pepper" <b75205 at gmail.com>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2009 3:28 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] The Census does not track the blind


> It is never too late, and what we need is to bring this up at the
> convention. We really do not need Oregon's results anyway the census takes
> data from all over the place and many states do not cooperate with all of
> the census taking anyway, so whats the problem?
>
> Also we should get the AAPD involved in this effort.
> But what we definitely need is some idea as to how many people are 
> affected,
> what is their economic position, did they go to college, did they get a
> degree, this stuff is essential to developing policy and waiting for this 
> to
> happen 10 years from now will not do!
>
> This is a civil rights issue and if we go around saying oh no  we cannot
> upset the apple cart then fine we will go around you.
>
> James Pepper
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net 



From carter.tjoseph at gmail.com  Wed Jun 10 19:44:06 2009
From: carter.tjoseph at gmail.com (T. Joseph Carter)
Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 12:44:06 -0700
Subject: [blindlaw] The Census does not track the blind
In-Reply-To: <fe5b78280906091528y2e1a49dao38c951015f31ef12@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20090609033819.GD18034@yumi.bluecherry.net>
	<F405FAAA797B4605A397A8FED1FB73F2@spike>
	<20090609141019.GI18034@yumi.bluecherry.net>
	<fe5b78280906090950h2974859ao745a811589a019e@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090609211528.GB684@yumi.bluecherry.net>
	<fe5b78280906091528y2e1a49dao38c951015f31ef12@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090610194406.GN1330@yumi.bluecherry.net>

James,

Collecting different data in only some locations is by definition 
INVALID.  You want descriptive statistics.  That's what the census 
is, descriptive statistics.  Unlike inferential statistics, where 
predictions of whole populations are taken from small samples and 
mathematics are used to determine the probability that those 
predictions are true, descriptive statistics are hard data.  The 
census is hard data for the entire population of the United States.

Statistics on SOME people who are blind cannot be done.  Neither can 
it be MOST people.  Unless it is 100% of the population (or much 
greater than 99% that the census bureau has determined to be close 
enough because of the cost and logistics of ensuring that every 
single man, woman, and child is properly counted), then the statistic 
cannot be part of the US census results.

If 10% of the country has been surveyed already, it's far too late.  
In fact, if even 1% of the country has been surveyed, it would be too 
late.

You are single-mindedly pushing for and advocating a lie, claiming it   
to be a civil right.  You have rejected rational explanation of why 
what you insist must be done in fact cannot be at this time.  Your 
only defense of your position is that it must be possible, though you 
have no plan for actually doing so.

I tell you flatly that it is not possible without an immediate halt 
to census-taking and a purge of all data collected to date, followed 
by a media campaign to inform everyone that census data must be 
re-taken in any area that has already been surveyed.  My guess is 
that it would cost hundreds of millions of dollars to do that at this 
point.

The train has left the station.  You weren't on it.  The world will 
not turn back time so that you can board before the final whistle.

Joseph


On Tue, Jun 09, 2009 at 05:28:23PM -0500, James Pepper wrote:
>It is never too late, and what we need is to bring this up at the
>convention. We really do not need Oregon's results anyway the census takes
>data from all over the place and many states do not cooperate with all of
>the census taking anyway, so whats the problem?
>
>Also we should get the AAPD involved in this effort.
>But what we definitely need is some idea as to how many people are affected,
>what is their economic position, did they go to college, did they get a
>degree, this stuff is essential to developing policy and waiting for this to
>happen 10 years from now will not do!
>
>This is a civil rights issue and if we go around saying oh no  we cannot
>upset the apple cart then fine we will go around you.
>
>James Pepper


From stevep.deeley at insightbb.com  Wed Jun 10 22:12:01 2009
From: stevep.deeley at insightbb.com (Steve P. Deeley)
Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 18:12:01 -0400
Subject: [blindlaw] The Census does not track the blind
In-Reply-To: <20090610194406.GN1330@yumi.bluecherry.net>
References: <20090609033819.GD18034@yumi.bluecherry.net>
	<F405FAAA797B4605A397A8FED1FB73F2@spike>
	<20090609141019.GI18034@yumi.bluecherry.net>
	<fe5b78280906090950h2974859ao745a811589a019e@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090609211528.GB684@yumi.bluecherry.net>
	<fe5b78280906091528y2e1a49dao38c951015f31ef12@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090610194406.GN1330@yumi.bluecherry.net>
Message-ID: <F998B287955043648A167118B0EA9122@StevePC>

OK, does the US census ask specific questions about the number of blind 
people living in your house?

Steve
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "T. Joseph Carter" <carter.tjoseph at gmail.com>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2009 3:44 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] The Census does not track the blind


> James,
>
> Collecting different data in only some locations is by definition
> INVALID.  You want descriptive statistics.  That's what the census
> is, descriptive statistics.  Unlike inferential statistics, where
> predictions of whole populations are taken from small samples and
> mathematics are used to determine the probability that those
> predictions are true, descriptive statistics are hard data.  The
> census is hard data for the entire population of the United States.
>
> Statistics on SOME people who are blind cannot be done.  Neither can
> it be MOST people.  Unless it is 100% of the population (or much
> greater than 99% that the census bureau has determined to be close
> enough because of the cost and logistics of ensuring that every
> single man, woman, and child is properly counted), then the statistic
> cannot be part of the US census results.
>
> If 10% of the country has been surveyed already, it's far too late.
> In fact, if even 1% of the country has been surveyed, it would be too
> late.
>
> You are single-mindedly pushing for and advocating a lie, claiming it
> to be a civil right.  You have rejected rational explanation of why
> what you insist must be done in fact cannot be at this time.  Your
> only defense of your position is that it must be possible, though you
> have no plan for actually doing so.
>
> I tell you flatly that it is not possible without an immediate halt
> to census-taking and a purge of all data collected to date, followed
> by a media campaign to inform everyone that census data must be
> re-taken in any area that has already been surveyed.  My guess is
> that it would cost hundreds of millions of dollars to do that at this
> point.
>
> The train has left the station.  You weren't on it.  The world will
> not turn back time so that you can board before the final whistle.
>
> Joseph
>
>
> On Tue, Jun 09, 2009 at 05:28:23PM -0500, James Pepper wrote:
>>It is never too late, and what we need is to bring this up at the
>>convention. We really do not need Oregon's results anyway the census takes
>>data from all over the place and many states do not cooperate with all of
>>the census taking anyway, so whats the problem?
>>
>>Also we should get the AAPD involved in this effort.
>>But what we definitely need is some idea as to how many people are 
>>affected,
>>what is their economic position, did they go to college, did they get a
>>degree, this stuff is essential to developing policy and waiting for this 
>>to
>>happen 10 years from now will not do!
>>
>>This is a civil rights issue and if we go around saying oh no  we cannot
>>upset the apple cart then fine we will go around you.
>>
>>James Pepper
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.62/2168 - Release Date: 06/10/09 
18:30:00



From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov  Wed Jun 10 22:40:17 2009
From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel)
Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 17:40:17 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] EEOC position opening:  Trial Attorney (Civil Rights)
Message-ID: <E771EAA0575B844C98712011AE73D7ED3AD8FA50E1@EDUPTCEXMB03.ed.gov>

A link was posted earlier.  Below is the full announcement.  Come to Seattle!
Link:
http://jobview.usajobs.gov/GetJob.aspx?JobID=81337960&JobTitle=Trial+Attorney+(Civil+Rights)&q=SFDO-09-03+trial+attorney+civil+rights&vw=b&re=0&fedemp=N&fedpub=Y&jbf565=&caller=default.aspx&pg=1&AVSDM=2009-06-04+00%3a03%3a00

Text:
Trial Attorney (Civil Rights)
SALARY RANGE: 71,889.00 - 111,134.00 USD /year
OPEN PERIOD: Thursday, June 04, 2009 to Wednesday, June 17, 2009
SERIES & GRADE: GS-0905-12/13 POSITION INFORMATION: Full-Time  Permanent
PROMOTION POTENTIAL: 14
DUTY LOCATIONS:   1 vacancy - Seattle, WA
WHO MAY BE CONSIDERED:   United States Citizens

JOB SUMMARY:
Are you motivated in helping people?  Do you enjoy challenging but satisfying work?  Why search any longer-- we have just the opportunity that you've been looking for!  The Equal Employment Opportunity Commission (EEOC) is an exciting and progressive organization comprised of highly motivated individuals committed to service in helping in the eradication of discrimination in the workplace.  Come join us and make a difference.

You will serve as a Trial Attorney in an EEOC field office Legal Unit with the responsibility of preparing and presenting some of the most complex cases for civil litigation of discriminatory employment practices under the full range of Federal statutes enforced by the EEOC which includes the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA), Age Discrimination in Employment Act (ADEA), Equal Pay Act (EPA), and Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 (as amended), in furthering EEOC's strategic enforcement and litigation plans and priorities.

Key Requirements:
Current BAR License in Good Standing
Earned LL.B. or J.D. Degree
This position is in the Excepted Service
U.S. Citizenship
Additional Duty Location Info:  1 vacancy - Seattle, WA

MAJOR DUTIES:
The incumbent serves as the representative and advocate of the United States when appearing before Article III Judges and Magistrate Judges in the United States Courts.  Prosecution of litigation cases under the Federal statutes enforced by the EEOC (ADA, ADEA, EPA, and Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 as amended), may be of such importance, scope, and complexity that your work will have legal and economic impact extending beyond the parties and the jurisdiction.  In some cases, the impact may be regional or national; in others, the impact may be upon a range of employers within an industry, community or jurisdiction.  Prosecution of such cases may require the concentrated efforts of several attorneys who function as a team.  The employee must use advanced skills and knowledge to effectively deal with opposing counsel who often are teams of experienced expert litigators with the resources of major law firms. The Trial Attorney's duties include the following:  Reviews recommendations of reasonable cause decisions submitted by Enforcement Staff to determine whether investigations have developed sufficient evidence of statutory violations to support litigation. Assesses whether cases should be litigated in accordance with the priorities of the Regional Attorney, the Office of General Counsel and the strategic  objectives of EEOC, including development and litigation of complex cases that further the priorities of national and local enforcement plans. Prepares individually or as a team member, pleadings, discovery documents, motions, and briefs in support of the Commission's legal position.

Prepares written and oral arguments on pre-trial, trial, and post-trial motions in court and  conferences and for hearings before Federal District Judges and Federal Magistrates.  At trial and in depositions, examines and cross examines highly competent expert and other witnesses, and lays foundation for the introduction of documentary evidence. Performs research of complex, factual or legal questions referred by administrative officials and Enforcement staff; provides legal advice and assistance in regard to the provisions and ramifications of the Acts enforced by EEOC, and related areas of law. Works with Enforcement staff to develop cases likely to result in a finding of violation and for which litigation may be pursued.  As required, works with the Legal Unit and other EEOC staff to review and provide guidance on Section 83 and related Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) disclosure requests.

Participates in and prepares presentations to the public and agency personnel for training, educational, and outreach purposes.

QUALIFICATIONS REQUIRED:
Basic Requirements:
All candidates must have earned their first professional law degree (LL.B. or J.D.) and must be a member of the BAR.  In addition, applicants must have the following years of professional legal experience:
     (1)  One year of professional legal experience; or
     (2)  One year of professional non-legal experience at the GS-11 level or equivalent in the  Federal service which demonstrates that the applicant has an intensive knowledge of the laws administered by EEOC and their application. Examples of experience that may demonstrate this knowledge are:
               (a)  Experience as an Investigator, Equal Opportunity Specialist or Paralegal Specialist; or
               (b)  Full-time or continuous participation in a legal aid program as opposed to one-time, intermittent, or casual participation; or
               c)   Significant summer law office clerk experience; or
     (3)  Evidence of superior law student work or activities as demonstrated by one of the following:
               (a)  Academic standing in the upper 20 percent of the law school graduating class; or
               (b)  Work or achievement of significance on the law school's official law review; or
               (c)  Special high-level honors for academic excellence in law school, such as election to the Order of the Coif; or
               (d)  Winning a moot court competition or membership on the moot court team which represents the law school in competition with other law schools; or
               (e)  Other equivalent evidence of clearly superior achievement.

For GS-12:
In order to be considered qualified, in addition to the basic requirements described above you must have at least one year of professional legal experience at the GS-11 level or equivalent education.

Professional legal education above the first professional law degree may be substituted for experience required for GS-12 as follows:
     (a)  The second professional law degree (LL.M.) may be substituted for one year of experience.
     (b)  The third law degree (J.S.D.) may be substituted for one year of experience beyond the LL.M.

For GS-13:
In order to be considered qualified, in addition to the basic requirements described above you must have at least two years of professional legal experience at the GS-12 level or equivalent education.

Professional legal education above the first professional law degree may be substituted for experience required for GS-13 as follows:
     (a)  The second professional law degree (LL.M.) may be substituted for one year of experience.
     (b)  The third law degree (J.S.D.) may be substituted for one year of experience beyond the LL.M.

All qualification requirements must be met by the closing date of this announcement.
See Qualifications Section.
--This is a Bargaining Unit position.
-- EEOC will not pay travel, transportation, and relocation expenses.
-- Travel may be required. As part of the hiring process, applicants selected for employment with EEOC, and whose duties require travel, must apply for a government travel charge card and sign a release form permitting authorized EEOC officials to obtain a credit score.


QUALIFICATIONS REQUIRED:
Basic Requirements:



All candidates must have earned their first professional law degree (LL.B. or J.D.) and must be a member of the BAR.  In addition, applicants must have the following years of professional legal experience:

     (1)  One year of professional legal experience; or
     (2)  One year of professional non-legal experience at the GS-11 level or equivalent in the  Federal service which demonstrates that the applicant has an intensive knowledge of the laws administered by EEOC and their application. Examples of experience that may demonstrate this knowledge are:
               (a)  Experience as an Investigator, Equal Opportunity Specialist or Paralegal Specialist; or
               (b)  Full-time or continuous participation in a legal aid program as opposed to one-time, intermittent, or casual participation; or
               c)   Significant summer law office clerk experience; or
     (3)  Evidence of superior law student work or activities as demonstrated by one of the following:
               (a)  Academic standing in the upper 20 percent of the law school graduating class; or
               (b)  Work or achievement of significance on the law school's official law review; or
               (c)  Special high-level honors for academic excellence in law school, such as election to the Order of the Coif; or
               (d)  Winning a moot court competition or membership on the moot court team which represents the law school in competition with other law schools; or
               (e)  Other equivalent evidence of clearly superior achievement.

For GS-12:

In order to be considered qualified, in addition to the basic requirements described above you must have at least one year of professional legal experience at the GS-11 level or equivalent education.

Professional legal education above the first professional law degree may be substituted for experience required for GS-12 as follows:

     (a)  The second professional law degree (LL.M.) may be substituted for one year of experience.
     (b)  The third law degree (J.S.D.) may be substituted for one year of experience beyond the LL.M.

For GS-13:

In order to be considered qualified, in addition to the basic requirements described above you must have at least two years of professional legal experience at the GS-12 level or equivalent education.

Professional legal education above the first professional law degree may be substituted for experience required for GS-13 as follows:

     (a)  The second professional law degree (LL.M.) may be substituted for one year of experience.
     (b)  The third law degree (J.S.D.) may be substituted for one year of experience beyond the LL.M.

All qualification requirements must be met by the closing date of this announcement.

See Qualifications Section.


--This is a Bargaining Unit position.

-- EEOC will not pay travel, transportation, and relocation expenses.

-- Travel may be required. As part of the hiring process, applicants selected for employment with EEOC, and whose duties require travel, must apply for a government travel charge card and sign a release form permitting authorized EEOC officials to obtain a credit score.

You must be a U.S. citizen to qualify for this position.


BENEFITS:
The Federal government offers a number of exceptional benefits to its employees. The following Web addresses are provided for your reference to explore the major benefits offered to most Federal employees.

Flexible Spending Accounts - The Federal Flexible Spending Accounts Program (FSAFeds) allows you to pay for certain health and dependent care expenses with pre-tax dollars. For additional information visit: https://www.fsafeds.com/fsafeds/index.asp.

Health Insurance - The Federal Employees Health Benefits Program offers over 100 optional plans. For additional information visit: http://www.opm.gov/insure/health/index.asp.

Leave - Most Federal employees earn both annual and sick leave. For information visit: http://www.opm.gov/oca/leave/index.asp.

Life Insurance - The Federal Employees' Group Life Insurance Program (FEGLI) offers: Basic Life Insurance plus three types of optional insurance, for additional information visit: http://www.opm.gov/insure/life/index.asp.

Dental and Insurance Program - The Federal Employees Dental and Insurance Program (FEDVIP) allows dental and vision insurance to be purchased on a group basis which means competitive premiums and no pre-existing condition limitations.  Premiums for enrolled Federal and Postal employees will be withheld from salary on a pre-tax basis.  For additional information visit: http://www.opm.gov/insure/DentalVision/index.asp.

Long Term Care Insurance - The Federal Long Term Care Insurance Program (FLTCIP) provides long term care insurance for Federal employees and their parents, parents-in-law, stepparents, spouses, and adult children. For additional information visit: http://www.ltcfeds.com/.

Retirement Program - Almost all new employees are automatically covered by the Federal Employees Retirement System (FERS). FERS is a three-tiered retirement plan. The three tiers are: Social Security Benefits, Basic Benefit Plan, Thrift Savings Plan. For additional information visit: http://www.opm.gov/retire/index.asp. This link provides an overview of the benefits currently offered to Federal employees.

OTHER INFORMATION:
1.  The EEOC provides reasonable accommodations to applicants with disabilities.  If you need reasonable accommodation for any part of the application and hiring process, please notify the contact named on this vacancy announcement.  The decision on granting reasonable accommodation will be made on a case-by-case basis.

2.  Veterans who served on active duty in the U.S. Armed Services and were separated under honorable conditions may be eligible for veterans' preference pursuant to 5 USC 3320 and 5 CFR Part 302.  If you are a veteran, you must attach a copy of your DD-214 (copy 4) and VA letter (if applicable).

3. If you are a male applicant who was born after 12/31/59 and are required to register under the Military Selective Service Act, the Defense Authorization Act of 1986 requires that you be registered or you are not eligible for appointment in this agency.

SELECTION WILL BE BASED SOLELY ON MERIT AND WILL BE WITHOUT DISCRIMINATION BECAUSE OF AGE, SEX, SEXUAL ORIENTATION, RACE, RELIGION, NATIONAL ORIGIN, MARITAL STATUS, PHYSICAL OR MENTAL DISABILITY.  THE EQUAL EMPLOYMENT OPPORTUNITY COMMISSION IS AN EQUAL OPPORTUNITY EMPLOYER.

HOW TO APPLY:
You may submit your resume for this job online by selecting the 'Apply Online' button at the bottom of this announcement. Please note: your online resume may not be a complete application. Be sure to carefully read this announcement to see if additional information is required and how it should be submitted. If you do not use the online feature, you should send your resume, or Optional Form 612, along with any other required documents to the address shown below.

Mail your applications so it will be postmarked by closing date. If hand delivered, be sure your application is received by closing date.

To apply online, read the announcement carefully and note any rating factors or KSAs that will need a response. From the announcement, select Apply on Line. You will need to log on to access your existing resumes or to create a new one and then submit it for consideration.

REQUIRED DOCUMENTS:
The following documents are required:
 Resume
Veterans Preference documentation (DD-214 and VA letter as appropriate)
Copy of college transcripts (s)
Proof of BAR membership in good standing
Copy of one recent legal writing sample

Applications mailed using government postage or through an internal federal government mail system will not be considered.

YOU MOST PROVIDE A COMPLETE APPLICATION PACKAGE WHICH INCLUDES  A RESUME AND ALL OTHER SUPPORTING DOCUMENTS SPECIFICED IN THE REQUIRED DOCUMENTS SECTION OF THIS ANNOUNCEMENT.  INCOMPLETE APPLICATIONS WILL NOT BE CONSIDERED.

AGENCY CONTACT INFO:
Diane Farr
Phone: 206-220-6875
Fax: 206-220-6869
TDD: 206-220-6882
Email: diane.farr at eeoc.gov

Or write:
Equal Employment Opportunity Commission
909 First Avenue, Suite 400
Seattle, WA 98104
US
Fax: 206-220-6869

WHAT TO EXPECT NEXT:
After a review of your complete application is made you will be notified of your rating and/or referral to the hiring official.  If further evaluation or interviews are required you will be contacted


From dandrews at visi.com  Wed Jun 10 23:00:03 2009
From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews)
Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 18:00:03 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] hello
In-Reply-To: <BLU139-W370AC8A20AC4E93A86EEBBD4440@phx.gbl>
References: <BLU139-W370AC8A20AC4E93A86EEBBD4440@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <auto-000102790467@mailfront1.g2host.com>

If you continue posting these messages to nfbnet.org lists you will 
be permanently banned from all our lists.

Dave

At 01:05 PM 6/9/2009, you wrote:

>Dear friend,
>
>Sorry to disturb you because of this message! I would like to 
>introduce a good company who trades mainly in electornic products. 
>Our company mainly in electronic products: laptops, cameras, 
>televisions, mobile phones, radio stations, and so on. It is facing 
>to wholesalers,retailers, and personal customer all over the world. 
>Original Products + Best Quality +Brand New + Warranty + Quick 
>Shipping + 100% Secure = 100% satisfied.
>
>For more, please visit (www.)tpvsw.com
>_________________________________________________________________
>Lauren found her dream laptop. Find the PC that's right for you.
>http://www.microsoft.com/windows/choosepc/?ocid=ftp_val_wl_290
>_______________________________________________
>blindlaw mailing list
>blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>for blindlaw:
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40visi.com
>
>
>__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus 
>signature database 4142 (20090609) __________
>
>The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.
>
>http://www.eset.com



From darlene.olsen at gmail.com  Thu Jun 11 00:40:02 2009
From: darlene.olsen at gmail.com (Darlene Olsen)
Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 17:40:02 -0700
Subject: [blindlaw] hello
References: <BLU139-W370AC8A20AC4E93A86EEBBD4440@phx.gbl>
	<auto-000102790467@mailfront1.g2host.com>
Message-ID: <F0AAA1C2F2BA47CFB34597713AA94F38@DarleneOlsen>

Mr. Andrews:
     I am a prelaw student.  I just graduated from Napa Valley College and 
thought it would be wonderful to see what makes a good attorney,  Two years 
ago I lost my euyesight.  I finished all the required paralegal classes 
before most of my eye sight was lost.  I would never send messages of 
selling merchandise.  I opened something that was from a mail list member 
called Krugman and it was selling me a new mortage finance rate.  I tried to 
exscape and it hung on to say, wait ... I wondered what happened.  I thought 
it was something to do with a talking watch item.  I was curious because I 
have four of them.  I have integrity and honesty to never violate 
communication between people.  I did not send you a silly advertisement.  I 
pay attention to the postings for the opportunity to learn,.
Respectfully yours,
Darlene Olsen

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "David Andrews" <dandrews at visi.com>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2009 4:00 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] hello


> If you continue posting these messages to nfbnet.org lists you will be 
> permanently banned from all our lists.
>
> Dave
>
> At 01:05 PM 6/9/2009, you wrote:
>
>>Dear friend,
>>
>>Sorry to disturb you because of this message! I would like to introduce a 
>>good company who trades mainly in electornic products. Our company mainly 
>>in electronic products: laptops, cameras, televisions, mobile phones, 
>>radio stations, and so on. It is facing to wholesalers,retailers, and 
>>personal customer all over the world. Original Products + Best Quality 
>>+Brand New + Warranty + Quick Shipping + 100% Secure = 100% satisfied.
>>
>>For more, please visit (www.)tpvsw.com
>>_________________________________________________________________
>>Lauren found her dream laptop. Find the PC that's right for you.
>>http://www.microsoft.com/windows/choosepc/?ocid=ftp_val_wl_290
>>_______________________________________________
>>blindlaw mailing list
>>blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>>blindlaw:
>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40visi.com
>>
>>
>>__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus 
>>signature database 4142 (20090609) __________
>>
>>The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.
>>
>>http://www.eset.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/darlene.olsen%40gmail.com 



From dandrews at visi.com  Thu Jun 11 01:28:58 2009
From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews)
Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 20:28:58 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] hello
In-Reply-To: <F0AAA1C2F2BA47CFB34597713AA94F38@DarleneOlsen>
References: <BLU139-W370AC8A20AC4E93A86EEBBD4440@phx.gbl>
	<auto-000102790467@mailfront1.g2host.com>
	<F0AAA1C2F2BA47CFB34597713AA94F38@DarleneOlsen>
Message-ID: <auto-000102800996@mailfront1.g2host.com>

The post didn't come from you so don't worry.  Just keep your 
antivirus software up to date.

Dave

At 07:40 PM 6/10/2009, you wrote:
>Mr. Andrews:
>     I am a prelaw student.  I just graduated from Napa Valley 
> College and thought it would be wonderful to see what makes a good 
> attorney,  Two years ago I lost my euyesight.  I finished all the 
> required paralegal classes before most of my eye sight was lost.  I 
> would never send messages of selling merchandise.  I opened 
> something that was from a mail list member called Krugman and it 
> was selling me a new mortage finance rate.  I tried to exscape and 
> it hung on to say, wait ... I wondered what happened.  I thought it 
> was something to do with a talking watch item.  I was curious 
> because I have four of them.  I have integrity and honesty to never 
> violate communication between people.  I did not send you a silly 
> advertisement.  I pay attention to the postings for the opportunity to learn,.
>Respectfully yours,
>Darlene Olsen
>
>----- Original Message ----- From: "David Andrews" <dandrews at visi.com>
>To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2009 4:00 PM
>Subject: Re: [blindlaw] hello
>
>
>>If you continue posting these messages to nfbnet.org lists you will 
>>be permanently banned from all our lists.
>>
>>Dave
>>
>>At 01:05 PM 6/9/2009, you wrote:
>>
>>>Dear friend,
>>>
>>>Sorry to disturb you because of this message! I would like to 
>>>introduce a good company who trades mainly in electornic products. 
>>>Our company mainly in electronic products: laptops, cameras, 
>>>televisions, mobile phones, radio stations, and so on. It is 
>>>facing to wholesalers,retailers, and personal customer all over 
>>>the world. Original Products + Best Quality +Brand New + Warranty 
>>>+ Quick Shipping + 100% Secure = 100% satisfied.
>>>
>>>For more, please visit (www.)tpvsw.com
>>>_________________________________________________________________
>>>Lauren found her dream laptop. Find the PC that's right for you.
>>>http://www.microsoft.com/windows/choosepc/?ocid=ftp_val_wl_290
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>blindlaw mailing list
>>>blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>for blindlaw:
>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40visi.com
>>>
>>>
>>>__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus 
>>>signature database 4142 (20090609) __________
>>>
>>>The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.
>>>
>>>http://www.eset.com
>>
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>blindlaw mailing list
>>blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>for blindlaw:
>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/darlene.olsen%40gmail.com 
>>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>blindlaw mailing list
>blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>for blindlaw:
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40visi.com
>
>
>__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus 
>signature database 4145 (20090610) __________
>
>The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.
>
>http://www.eset.com
>
>



From b75205 at gmail.com  Thu Jun 11 02:47:44 2009
From: b75205 at gmail.com (James Pepper)
Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 21:47:44 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] The Census does not track the blind
In-Reply-To: <F998B287955043648A167118B0EA9122@StevePC>
References: <20090609033819.GD18034@yumi.bluecherry.net>
	<F405FAAA797B4605A397A8FED1FB73F2@spike>
	<20090609141019.GI18034@yumi.bluecherry.net>
	<fe5b78280906090950h2974859ao745a811589a019e@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090609211528.GB684@yumi.bluecherry.net>
	<fe5b78280906091528y2e1a49dao38c951015f31ef12@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090610194406.GN1330@yumi.bluecherry.net>
	<F998B287955043648A167118B0EA9122@StevePC>
Message-ID: <fe5b78280906101947x2dbbd83dh6f1c3fc431206b11@mail.gmail.com>

Sorry to burst your bubble but the census is not taken perfectly and there
has always been missing information.  All you have to do is just look at
their records and you can see that some date for some states simply is not
taken in.  If it were perfect we wouldn't be having court cases on
redistricting.

The census did a survey of 18 to 34 year olds in 2006 and that survey was
missing information on several states.  Did that stop them from publishing
the results, of course not.

There is still time to take the census and to get all of the information and
saying oh no it is going to be inconvenient is not going to get the job
done.  Everything is inconvenient, so what we still get the job done.

You are a statitician you want it all to be perfect, it never is perfect.

James Pepper

From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net  Thu Jun 11 09:25:51 2009
From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net)
Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 02:25:51 -0700
Subject: [blindlaw] ramifications of receiving Target settlement check for
	SSI recipients
Message-ID: <DD01A1BAD9044775A65CB6C6D43BF548@spike>

Recently I was contacted by a chapter member who was a recipient of the Target settlement check. He is receiving SSI and is concerned about protecting his settlement check and benefits. Was this issue addressed or does anyone have suggestions. I think it might be a little late for a special needs trust to be established. Let me know.
Chuck

From JChwalow at nfb.org  Thu Jun 11 11:48:42 2009
From: JChwalow at nfb.org (Chwalow, Judith)
Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 07:48:42 -0400
Subject: [blindlaw] The Census does not track the blind
In-Reply-To: <F998B287955043648A167118B0EA9122@StevePC>
References: <20090609033819.GD18034@yumi.bluecherry.net><F405FAAA797B4605A397A8FED1FB73F2@spike><20090609141019.GI18034@yumi.bluecherry.net><fe5b78280906090950h2974859ao745a811589a019e@mail.gmail.com><20090609211528.GB684@yumi.bluecherry.net><fe5b78280906091528y2e1a49dao38c951015f31ef12@mail.gmail.com><20090610194406.GN1330@yumi.bluecherry.net>
	<F998B287955043648A167118B0EA9122@StevePC>
Message-ID: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6BF00444@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local>

No,

But the American Community Survey, a 3,000,000 representative survey of
a subset of the census does.

A. Judith Chwalow, DrPH
Director of Research, Jernigan Institute
National Federation of the Blind
1800 Johnson Street
Baltimore, MD 21230
410 659 9314 x2404
jchwalow at NFB.org
 

-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
On Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley
Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2009 6:12 PM
To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] The Census does not track the blind

OK, does the US census ask specific questions about the number of blind
people living in your house?

Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: "T. Joseph Carter" <carter.tjoseph at gmail.com>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2009 3:44 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] The Census does not track the blind


> James,
>
> Collecting different data in only some locations is by definition
> INVALID.  You want descriptive statistics.  That's what the census
> is, descriptive statistics.  Unlike inferential statistics, where
> predictions of whole populations are taken from small samples and
> mathematics are used to determine the probability that those
> predictions are true, descriptive statistics are hard data.  The
> census is hard data for the entire population of the United States.
>
> Statistics on SOME people who are blind cannot be done.  Neither can
> it be MOST people.  Unless it is 100% of the population (or much
> greater than 99% that the census bureau has determined to be close
> enough because of the cost and logistics of ensuring that every
> single man, woman, and child is properly counted), then the statistic
> cannot be part of the US census results.
>
> If 10% of the country has been surveyed already, it's far too late.
> In fact, if even 1% of the country has been surveyed, it would be too
> late.
>
> You are single-mindedly pushing for and advocating a lie, claiming it
> to be a civil right.  You have rejected rational explanation of why
> what you insist must be done in fact cannot be at this time.  Your
> only defense of your position is that it must be possible, though you
> have no plan for actually doing so.
>
> I tell you flatly that it is not possible without an immediate halt
> to census-taking and a purge of all data collected to date, followed
> by a media campaign to inform everyone that census data must be
> re-taken in any area that has already been surveyed.  My guess is
> that it would cost hundreds of millions of dollars to do that at this
> point.
>
> The train has left the station.  You weren't on it.  The world will
> not turn back time so that you can board before the final whistle.
>
> Joseph
>
>
> On Tue, Jun 09, 2009 at 05:28:23PM -0500, James Pepper wrote:
>>It is never too late, and what we need is to bring this up at the
>>convention. We really do not need Oregon's results anyway the census
takes
>>data from all over the place and many states do not cooperate with all
of
>>the census taking anyway, so whats the problem?
>>
>>Also we should get the AAPD involved in this effort.
>>But what we definitely need is some idea as to how many people are 
>>affected,
>>what is their economic position, did they go to college, did they get
a
>>degree, this stuff is essential to developing policy and waiting for
this 
>>to
>>happen 10 years from now will not do!
>>
>>This is a civil rights issue and if we go around saying oh no  we
cannot
>>upset the apple cart then fine we will go around you.
>>
>>James Pepper
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%
40insightbb.com


------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------



No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.62/2168 - Release Date:
06/10/09 
18:30:00


_______________________________________________
blindlaw mailing list
blindlaw at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
blindlaw:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jchwalow%40nfb
.org


From JMcCarthy at nfb.org  Thu Jun 11 13:22:32 2009
From: JMcCarthy at nfb.org (McCarthy, Jim)
Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 09:22:32 -0400
Subject: [blindlaw] ramifications of receiving Target settlement check
	forSSI recipients
In-Reply-To: <DD01A1BAD9044775A65CB6C6D43BF548@spike>
Message-ID: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6B26D8F4@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local>

Chuck and others,
We at the National Center for the Blind have begun to receive calls on
the same point.  I reached out to one of the lawyers and suggested that
individuals need to know the basic consequences of their receiving money
from the Target settlement.  However, the means to best convey that
information to a large class of diverse members poses some challenges
and I am not sure how it will be addressed at this time.  I do think
some basic information on this list is not a bad idea though because
many of us may have contact with folks who get SSI and have received
Target Settlement funds.

Unfortunately, there is no income or resource exclusion in SSI for
settlements of civil rights cases as this clearly is.  As for the
possibility of a special needs trust, I doubt that the amounts are
significant enough to make a trust really feasible and I imagine you are
also right regarding timing.  The basic SSI rule applies.  The funds,
between $3,500 and $7,000, as I understand the amounts, are unearned
income when received.  That means all but $20 is counted when
determining whether an SSI benefit is available.  Needless to say, in
the month of receipt, no check is available.  In the next full calendar
month, the funds become a resource.  An individual is allowed a total of
$2,000 in resources so for as long as the total exceeds that amount, the
individual is not entitled to an SSI benefit.  The final thing I will
say about this is that if anyone in California wants to give advice to
chapter members, friends etc. receiving SSI who are entitled to funds
from the Target settlement, discourage people from putting the
settlement money under the mattress.  The rules I mentioned above kick
in on receipt of the money and it is pretty clear within perhaps a day
or so, when each person received their money.  Holding it thinking or
hoping SSI will not come to know is a very bad strategy that will not
work.
Jim McCarthy

-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
On Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 5:26 AM
To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
Subject: [blindlaw] ramifications of receiving Target settlement check
forSSI recipients

Recently I was contacted by a chapter member who was a recipient of the
Target settlement check. He is receiving SSI and is concerned about
protecting his settlement check and benefits. Was this issue addressed
or does anyone have suggestions. I think it might be a little late for a
special needs trust to be established. Let me know.
Chuck
_______________________________________________
blindlaw mailing list
blindlaw at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
blindlaw:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jmccarthy%40nf
b.org


From stevep.deeley at insightbb.com  Thu Jun 11 15:57:39 2009
From: stevep.deeley at insightbb.com (Steve P. Deeley)
Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 11:57:39 -0400
Subject: [blindlaw] ramifications of receiving Target settlement
	checkforSSI recipients
In-Reply-To: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6B26D8F4@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local>
References: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6B26D8F4@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local>
Message-ID: <0A31124886164D35BD28CDB7B5BB0C88@StevePC>

SSI recipients, welcome to the real world!!

Steve
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "McCarthy, Jim" <JMcCarthy at nfb.org>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 9:22 AM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ramifications of receiving Target settlement 
checkforSSI recipients


> Chuck and others,
> We at the National Center for the Blind have begun to receive calls on
> the same point.  I reached out to one of the lawyers and suggested that
> individuals need to know the basic consequences of their receiving money
> from the Target settlement.  However, the means to best convey that
> information to a large class of diverse members poses some challenges
> and I am not sure how it will be addressed at this time.  I do think
> some basic information on this list is not a bad idea though because
> many of us may have contact with folks who get SSI and have received
> Target Settlement funds.
>
> Unfortunately, there is no income or resource exclusion in SSI for
> settlements of civil rights cases as this clearly is.  As for the
> possibility of a special needs trust, I doubt that the amounts are
> significant enough to make a trust really feasible and I imagine you are
> also right regarding timing.  The basic SSI rule applies.  The funds,
> between $3,500 and $7,000, as I understand the amounts, are unearned
> income when received.  That means all but $20 is counted when
> determining whether an SSI benefit is available.  Needless to say, in
> the month of receipt, no check is available.  In the next full calendar
> month, the funds become a resource.  An individual is allowed a total of
> $2,000 in resources so for as long as the total exceeds that amount, the
> individual is not entitled to an SSI benefit.  The final thing I will
> say about this is that if anyone in California wants to give advice to
> chapter members, friends etc. receiving SSI who are entitled to funds
> from the Target settlement, discourage people from putting the
> settlement money under the mattress.  The rules I mentioned above kick
> in on receipt of the money and it is pretty clear within perhaps a day
> or so, when each person received their money.  Holding it thinking or
> hoping SSI will not come to know is a very bad strategy that will not
> work.
> Jim McCarthy
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
> On Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net
> Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 5:26 AM
> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
> Subject: [blindlaw] ramifications of receiving Target settlement check
> forSSI recipients
>
> Recently I was contacted by a chapter member who was a recipient of the
> Target settlement check. He is receiving SSI and is concerned about
> protecting his settlement check and benefits. Was this issue addressed
> or does anyone have suggestions. I think it might be a little late for a
> special needs trust to be established. Let me know.
> Chuck
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jmccarthy%40nf
> b.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.63/2169 - Release Date: 06/11/09 
05:53:00



From b75205 at gmail.com  Thu Jun 11 16:06:15 2009
From: b75205 at gmail.com (James Pepper)
Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 11:06:15 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] The Census does not track the blind
In-Reply-To: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6BF00444@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local>
References: <20090609033819.GD18034@yumi.bluecherry.net>
	<F405FAAA797B4605A397A8FED1FB73F2@spike>
	<20090609141019.GI18034@yumi.bluecherry.net>
	<fe5b78280906090950h2974859ao745a811589a019e@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090609211528.GB684@yumi.bluecherry.net>
	<fe5b78280906091528y2e1a49dao38c951015f31ef12@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090610194406.GN1330@yumi.bluecherry.net>
	<F998B287955043648A167118B0EA9122@StevePC>
	<7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6BF00444@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local>
Message-ID: <fe5b78280906110906w5a140068y2fe91135cc332dcc@mail.gmail.com>

The American Community Survey only tracks the senosry impaired.   That
incluides the deaf.  We need to know about the blind, the deaf blind, the
visually impaired and the color blind.  We need to know the status of the
blind in society, where we need to change things and we cannot do that when
the government does not track this specific minority.  Including us in a
general class is not going to do it.

There is no reason to ignore the blind and we need this done NOW, not 10
years from now, NOW.  All of this should have been done 36 years ago with
the passing of the Rehabilitation Act.

Our economy spends 50 billion dollars a year on the blind, most of that is
in government payouts to support the blind. The US Government pays out
$266,000 to each blind person over their lifetime on average in public
assistance.  If you mutliply the 50 billion figure over the past 36 years of
the Rehabilitation Act, the US economy has spent 1.8 Trillion dollars on the
blind.  The US government should be tracking the results of that expenditure
but it is not doing it, because the results are terrible.

So who cares if the census is going to have to be redone, do we have to
spend another 500 billion dollars to wait for a real census just so the
government policies can maintain us at a 70% unemployement rate?

James Pepper

From JMcCarthy at nfb.org  Thu Jun 11 16:59:41 2009
From: JMcCarthy at nfb.org (McCarthy, Jim)
Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 12:59:41 -0400
Subject: [blindlaw] ramifications of receiving Target
	settlementcheckforSSI recipients
In-Reply-To: <0A31124886164D35BD28CDB7B5BB0C88@StevePC>
Message-ID: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6B26D8F5@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local>

In my opinion, a public statement like "welcome to the real world is a
statement full of judgment that really does not add anything of value to
this discussion.  It may be your opinion and you are absolutely entitled
to have it.  The goal of the post though was only to address an issue
that I am sure will come up over and over again.  Correct information
should aid people in their decision making and that was my primary
objective in posting.
Jim McCarthy 

-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
On Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 11:58 AM
To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ramifications of receiving Target
settlementcheckforSSI recipients

SSI recipients, welcome to the real world!!

Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: "McCarthy, Jim" <JMcCarthy at nfb.org>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 9:22 AM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ramifications of receiving Target settlement
checkforSSI recipients


> Chuck and others,
> We at the National Center for the Blind have begun to receive calls on

> the same point.  I reached out to one of the lawyers and suggested 
> that individuals need to know the basic consequences of their 
> receiving money from the Target settlement.  However, the means to 
> best convey that information to a large class of diverse members poses

> some challenges and I am not sure how it will be addressed at this 
> time.  I do think some basic information on this list is not a bad 
> idea though because many of us may have contact with folks who get SSI

> and have received Target Settlement funds.
>
> Unfortunately, there is no income or resource exclusion in SSI for 
> settlements of civil rights cases as this clearly is.  As for the 
> possibility of a special needs trust, I doubt that the amounts are 
> significant enough to make a trust really feasible and I imagine you 
> are also right regarding timing.  The basic SSI rule applies.  The 
> funds, between $3,500 and $7,000, as I understand the amounts, are 
> unearned income when received.  That means all but $20 is counted when

> determining whether an SSI benefit is available.  Needless to say, in 
> the month of receipt, no check is available.  In the next full 
> calendar month, the funds become a resource.  An individual is allowed

> a total of $2,000 in resources so for as long as the total exceeds 
> that amount, the individual is not entitled to an SSI benefit.  The 
> final thing I will say about this is that if anyone in California 
> wants to give advice to chapter members, friends etc. receiving SSI 
> who are entitled to funds from the Target settlement, discourage 
> people from putting the settlement money under the mattress.  The 
> rules I mentioned above kick in on receipt of the money and it is 
> pretty clear within perhaps a day or so, when each person received 
> their money.  Holding it thinking or hoping SSI will not come to know 
> is a very bad strategy that will not work.
> Jim McCarthy
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
> On Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net
> Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 5:26 AM
> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
> Subject: [blindlaw] ramifications of receiving Target settlement check

> forSSI recipients
>
> Recently I was contacted by a chapter member who was a recipient of 
> the Target settlement check. He is receiving SSI and is concerned 
> about protecting his settlement check and benefits. Was this issue 
> addressed or does anyone have suggestions. I think it might be a 
> little late for a special needs trust to be established. Let me know.
> Chuck
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jmccarthy%40
> nf
> b.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deele
> y%40insightbb.com


------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------



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Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
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06/11/09 05:53:00


_______________________________________________
blindlaw mailing list
blindlaw at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
blindlaw:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jmccarthy%40nf
b.org


From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov  Thu Jun 11 17:28:36 2009
From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel)
Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 12:28:36 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] ABA YLD Reminder: Scholarship Deadline 6/15 -
	Ref#19332020
Message-ID: <E771EAA0575B844C98712011AE73D7ED3ADA0A2C1C@EDUPTCEXMB03.ed.gov>


American Bar Association Young Lawyers Division

Celebrating 75 years of Public Service and Education

June 15:  Scholarship Application Deadline  Apply for the ABA YLD's Minority, Solo/Small Firm, Government, Private Sector, and Military Service scholarship program
  by June 15.  The program provides partial conference funding and an opportunity to become more involved in the Division.

________________________________

About the Division
The American Bar Association Young Lawyers Division
  (ABA YLD) is the home for young lawyers. With over 150,000 members and 300 affiliated groups, the ABA YLD is the largest young lawyer organization in the world. 

The Division is committed to assuring it is best able to represent the newest members of the profession, ensuring that it reflects the society it serves, and providing young lawyers with the tools and opportunities for professional and personal success.  The Division also supports the activities of its Fellows, ABA members once active in the Division who have "aged out".

Individual membership is open to American Bar Association members under
36 years old or admitted to practice for five years or less.
Affiliate
membership is open to young lawyer organizations and special interest bars. 

Your e-mail address will only be used within the ABA and its entities.
We do not sell or rent e-mail addresses to anyone outside the ABA.
Update your profile

| Unsubscribe
  | Privacy Policy

American Bar Association | 321 N Clark | Chicago, IL 60654-7598 |
1-800-285-2221



From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov  Thu Jun 11 18:06:46 2009
From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel)
Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 13:06:46 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] FW: IMMEDIATE ATTENTION REQUIRED: ABA Conference
 Scholarships Available
Message-ID: <E771EAA0575B844C98712011AE73D7ED3ADA0A2C1D@EDUPTCEXMB03.ed.gov>



________________________________
From: CMPDL's Disability Discussion Docket (3D) [mailto:CMPDL-3D at MAIL.ABANET.ORG] On Behalf Of Phelan, William
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 8:27 AM
To: CMPDL-3D at MAIL.ABANET.ORG
Subject: IMMEDIATE ATTENTION REQUIRED: ABA Conference Scholarships Available
Importance: High

The ABA Commission on Mental and Physical Disability Law is pleased to announce that emergency funds have become available to give out four partial scholarships for the 2nd ABA National Conference on the Employment of Lawyers with Disabilities. These four scholarships will only cover the recipient's registration, meals, and CLE materials for the Conference. They will not cover travel or lodging in Washington, DC. They will be given on a first-come-first served basis to those who meet the following criteria:


 1.  A lawyer or law student with a disability
 2.  An ABA member
 3.  Can demonstrate financial need for the scholarship in some fashion

Please contact me at the information below to take advantage of this opportunity.

Please distribute this e-mail, especially to those in the DC area.

This offer will expire at 4:30PM EST today, Thursday, June 11, 2009.

For more information on the Conference, please visit:
http://new.abanet.org/calendar/2nd-National-Conference-on-Employment-of-Lawyers-with-Disabilities/Pages/default.aspx

Thank you for your attention.


William J. Phelan, IV, Esq.
Special Projects and Technology Coordinator
Commission on Mental and Physical Disability Law
American Bar Association
740 15th Street, NW, 9th Floor
Washington, DC 20005-1022

T: 202.662.1576
F: 202.442.3439
phelanw at staff.abanet.org<mailto:phelanw at staff.abanet.org>
www.abanet.org/disability<http://www.abanet.org/disability>

---------

[http://www.abanet.org/disability/images/3Dlogo.jpg]

Disability Discussion Docket (3D)
ABA Commission on Mental and Physical Disability Law
http://www.abanet.org/disability

---------

To leave this list at any time, please send a message to listserv at mail.abanet.org. In the body of the message type "sign off cmpdl-3d."
If you have any questions about 3D or the CMPDL in general, please contact William Phelan at phelanw at staff.abanet.org.

From roddj12 at hotmail.com  Thu Jun 11 18:18:22 2009
From: roddj12 at hotmail.com (Rod Alcidonis)
Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 14:18:22 -0400
Subject: [blindlaw] ramifications of receiving
	TargetsettlementcheckforSSI recipients
References: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6B26D8F5@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local>
Message-ID: <BAY105-DAV115C1B85DBF4E80D5A8BBBBB420@phx.gbl>

Jim:

Please, please, do not further engage the person who made this statement to 
prolong an unnecessary debate. His reputation for making such statements is 
and should be well known on the list. His statements are usually devoid of 
any logical force and sincerety, but pact with political statements 
regarding the fairness of individuals receiving benefits which they are 
legally entitled to receive.

Take care.

Rod Alcidonis, J.D.
C. 718-704-4651
roddj12 at hotmail.com

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "McCarthy, Jim" <JMcCarthy at nfb.org>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 12:59 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ramifications of receiving 
TargetsettlementcheckforSSI recipients


> In my opinion, a public statement like "welcome to the real world is a
> statement full of judgment that really does not add anything of value to
> this discussion.  It may be your opinion and you are absolutely entitled
> to have it.  The goal of the post though was only to address an issue
> that I am sure will come up over and over again.  Correct information
> should aid people in their decision making and that was my primary
> objective in posting.
> Jim McCarthy
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
> On Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley
> Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 11:58 AM
> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ramifications of receiving Target
> settlementcheckforSSI recipients
>
> SSI recipients, welcome to the real world!!
>
> Steve
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "McCarthy, Jim" <JMcCarthy at nfb.org>
> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 9:22 AM
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ramifications of receiving Target settlement
> checkforSSI recipients
>
>
>> Chuck and others,
>> We at the National Center for the Blind have begun to receive calls on
>
>> the same point.  I reached out to one of the lawyers and suggested
>> that individuals need to know the basic consequences of their
>> receiving money from the Target settlement.  However, the means to
>> best convey that information to a large class of diverse members poses
>
>> some challenges and I am not sure how it will be addressed at this
>> time.  I do think some basic information on this list is not a bad
>> idea though because many of us may have contact with folks who get SSI
>
>> and have received Target Settlement funds.
>>
>> Unfortunately, there is no income or resource exclusion in SSI for
>> settlements of civil rights cases as this clearly is.  As for the
>> possibility of a special needs trust, I doubt that the amounts are
>> significant enough to make a trust really feasible and I imagine you
>> are also right regarding timing.  The basic SSI rule applies.  The
>> funds, between $3,500 and $7,000, as I understand the amounts, are
>> unearned income when received.  That means all but $20 is counted when
>
>> determining whether an SSI benefit is available.  Needless to say, in
>> the month of receipt, no check is available.  In the next full
>> calendar month, the funds become a resource.  An individual is allowed
>
>> a total of $2,000 in resources so for as long as the total exceeds
>> that amount, the individual is not entitled to an SSI benefit.  The
>> final thing I will say about this is that if anyone in California
>> wants to give advice to chapter members, friends etc. receiving SSI
>> who are entitled to funds from the Target settlement, discourage
>> people from putting the settlement money under the mattress.  The
>> rules I mentioned above kick in on receipt of the money and it is
>> pretty clear within perhaps a day or so, when each person received
>> their money.  Holding it thinking or hoping SSI will not come to know
>> is a very bad strategy that will not work.
>> Jim McCarthy
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>> On Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net
>> Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 5:26 AM
>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>> Subject: [blindlaw] ramifications of receiving Target settlement check
>
>> forSSI recipients
>>
>> Recently I was contacted by a chapter member who was a recipient of
>> the Target settlement check. He is receiving SSI and is concerned
>> about protecting his settlement check and benefits. Was this issue
>> addressed or does anyone have suggestions. I think it might be a
>> little late for a special needs trust to be established. Let me know.
>> Chuck
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindlaw:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jmccarthy%40
>> nf
>> b.org
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindlaw:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deele
>> y%40insightbb.com
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> --------
>
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.63/2169 - Release Date:
> 06/11/09 05:53:00
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jmccarthy%40nf
> b.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail.com
> 



From stevep.deeley at insightbb.com  Thu Jun 11 19:08:57 2009
From: stevep.deeley at insightbb.com (Steve P. Deeley)
Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 15:08:57 -0400
Subject: [blindlaw] The Census does not track the blind
In-Reply-To: <fe5b78280906110906w5a140068y2fe91135cc332dcc@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20090609033819.GD18034@yumi.bluecherry.net>
	<F405FAAA797B4605A397A8FED1FB73F2@spike>
	<20090609141019.GI18034@yumi.bluecherry.net>
	<fe5b78280906090950h2974859ao745a811589a019e@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090609211528.GB684@yumi.bluecherry.net>
	<fe5b78280906091528y2e1a49dao38c951015f31ef12@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090610194406.GN1330@yumi.bluecherry.net>
	<F998B287955043648A167118B0EA9122@StevePC>
	<7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6BF00444@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local>
	<fe5b78280906110906w5a140068y2fe91135cc332dcc@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <933A9FCB71AD4A4EA0BFD5FB35CD45CA@StevePC>

Where did you get these stats; they are very interesting.

Steve
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "James Pepper" <b75205 at gmail.com>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 12:06 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] The Census does not track the blind


> The American Community Survey only tracks the senosry impaired.   That
> incluides the deaf.  We need to know about the blind, the deaf blind, the
> visually impaired and the color blind.  We need to know the status of the
> blind in society, where we need to change things and we cannot do that 
> when
> the government does not track this specific minority.  Including us in a
> general class is not going to do it.
>
> There is no reason to ignore the blind and we need this done NOW, not 10
> years from now, NOW.  All of this should have been done 36 years ago with
> the passing of the Rehabilitation Act.
>
> Our economy spends 50 billion dollars a year on the blind, most of that is
> in government payouts to support the blind. The US Government pays out
> $266,000 to each blind person over their lifetime on average in public
> assistance.  If you mutliply the 50 billion figure over the past 36 years 
> of
> the Rehabilitation Act, the US economy has spent 1.8 Trillion dollars on 
> the
> blind.  The US government should be tracking the results of that 
> expenditure
> but it is not doing it, because the results are terrible.
>
> So who cares if the census is going to have to be redone, do we have to
> spend another 500 billion dollars to wait for a real census just so the
> government policies can maintain us at a 70% unemployement rate?
>
> James Pepper
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.63/2169 - Release Date: 06/11/09 
05:53:00



From b75205 at gmail.com  Thu Jun 11 20:12:02 2009
From: b75205 at gmail.com (James Pepper)
Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 15:12:02 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] ramifications of receiving Target settlement check
	for SSI recipients
In-Reply-To: <DD01A1BAD9044775A65CB6C6D43BF548@spike>
References: <DD01A1BAD9044775A65CB6C6D43BF548@spike>
Message-ID: <fe5b78280906111312nc6f2617mbcdabbaa30a33f57@mail.gmail.com>

So in the future should the amounts collected from companies such as Target
be directed to a specific institution to provide services for the blind?
Some way to get around this problem of the SSI beneificaries loosing not
only the money but thier medications etc.?

We need a clear layout of how to solve these problems without negating the
solution.

James Pepper

From stevep.deeley at insightbb.com  Thu Jun 11 21:41:06 2009
From: stevep.deeley at insightbb.com (Steve P. Deeley)
Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 17:41:06 -0400
Subject: [blindlaw] ramifications of
	receiving	TargetsettlementcheckforSSI recipients
In-Reply-To: <BAY105-DAV115C1B85DBF4E80D5A8BBBBB420@phx.gbl>
References: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6B26D8F5@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local>
	<BAY105-DAV115C1B85DBF4E80D5A8BBBBB420@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <399F8A1F74E746AEB2A5040FCB0EAC41@StevePC>

Let me tell you something.  I'm not making any judgments, however, I will 
tell you that my wife and I pay a great deal of taxes.  Let these folks pay 
there fair share of taxes on the money they received from the judgment 
against target.  You are correct, I certainly don't agree with the judgment, 
however, that is a subject for another time.  I will not make further 
statements concerning SSI recipients attempting to protect their
SSI payments after receiving money from the Target action.  My reasoned 
opinions are just as valid as your view on the subject matter.
Steve
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Rod Alcidonis" <roddj12 at hotmail.com>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 2:18 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ramifications of receiving 
TargetsettlementcheckforSSI recipients


> Jim:
>
> Please, please, do not further engage the person who made this statement 
> to
> prolong an unnecessary debate. His reputation for making such statements 
> is
> and should be well known on the list. His statements are usually devoid of
> any logical force and sincerety, but pact with political statements
> regarding the fairness of individuals receiving benefits which they are
> legally entitled to receive.
>
> Take care.
>
> Rod Alcidonis, J.D.
> C. 718-704-4651
> roddj12 at hotmail.com
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "McCarthy, Jim" <JMcCarthy at nfb.org>
> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 12:59 PM
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ramifications of receiving
> TargetsettlementcheckforSSI recipients
>
>
>> In my opinion, a public statement like "welcome to the real world is a
>> statement full of judgment that really does not add anything of value to
>> this discussion.  It may be your opinion and you are absolutely entitled
>> to have it.  The goal of the post though was only to address an issue
>> that I am sure will come up over and over again.  Correct information
>> should aid people in their decision making and that was my primary
>> objective in posting.
>> Jim McCarthy
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>> On Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley
>> Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 11:58 AM
>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ramifications of receiving Target
>> settlementcheckforSSI recipients
>>
>> SSI recipients, welcome to the real world!!
>>
>> Steve
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "McCarthy, Jim" <JMcCarthy at nfb.org>
>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 9:22 AM
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ramifications of receiving Target settlement
>> checkforSSI recipients
>>
>>
>>> Chuck and others,
>>> We at the National Center for the Blind have begun to receive calls on
>>
>>> the same point.  I reached out to one of the lawyers and suggested
>>> that individuals need to know the basic consequences of their
>>> receiving money from the Target settlement.  However, the means to
>>> best convey that information to a large class of diverse members poses
>>
>>> some challenges and I am not sure how it will be addressed at this
>>> time.  I do think some basic information on this list is not a bad
>>> idea though because many of us may have contact with folks who get SSI
>>
>>> and have received Target Settlement funds.
>>>
>>> Unfortunately, there is no income or resource exclusion in SSI for
>>> settlements of civil rights cases as this clearly is.  As for the
>>> possibility of a special needs trust, I doubt that the amounts are
>>> significant enough to make a trust really feasible and I imagine you
>>> are also right regarding timing.  The basic SSI rule applies.  The
>>> funds, between $3,500 and $7,000, as I understand the amounts, are
>>> unearned income when received.  That means all but $20 is counted when
>>
>>> determining whether an SSI benefit is available.  Needless to say, in
>>> the month of receipt, no check is available.  In the next full
>>> calendar month, the funds become a resource.  An individual is allowed
>>
>>> a total of $2,000 in resources so for as long as the total exceeds
>>> that amount, the individual is not entitled to an SSI benefit.  The
>>> final thing I will say about this is that if anyone in California
>>> wants to give advice to chapter members, friends etc. receiving SSI
>>> who are entitled to funds from the Target settlement, discourage
>>> people from putting the settlement money under the mattress.  The
>>> rules I mentioned above kick in on receipt of the money and it is
>>> pretty clear within perhaps a day or so, when each person received
>>> their money.  Holding it thinking or hoping SSI will not come to know
>>> is a very bad strategy that will not work.
>>> Jim McCarthy
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>> On Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net
>>> Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 5:26 AM
>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>>> Subject: [blindlaw] ramifications of receiving Target settlement check
>>
>>> forSSI recipients
>>>
>>> Recently I was contacted by a chapter member who was a recipient of
>>> the Target settlement check. He is receiving SSI and is concerned
>>> about protecting his settlement check and benefits. Was this issue
>>> addressed or does anyone have suggestions. I think it might be a
>>> little late for a special needs trust to be established. Let me know.
>>> Chuck
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> blindlaw:
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jmccarthy%40
>>> nf
>>> b.org
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> blindlaw:
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deele
>>> y%40insightbb.com
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> --------
>>
>>
>>
>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>> Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.63/2169 - Release Date:
>> 06/11/09 05:53:00
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindlaw:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jmccarthy%40nf
>> b.org
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindlaw:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail.com
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.63/2169 - Release Date: 06/11/09 
05:53:00



From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net  Thu Jun 11 22:10:24 2009
From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net)
Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 15:10:24 -0700
Subject: [blindlaw] The Census does not track the blind
In-Reply-To: <fe5b78280906110906w5a140068y2fe91135cc332dcc@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20090609033819.GD18034@yumi.bluecherry.net><F405FAAA797B4605A397A8FED1FB73F2@spike><20090609141019.GI18034@yumi.bluecherry.net><fe5b78280906090950h2974859ao745a811589a019e@mail.gmail.com><20090609211528.GB684@yumi.bluecherry.net><fe5b78280906091528y2e1a49dao38c951015f31ef12@mail.gmail.com><20090610194406.GN1330@yumi.bluecherry.net><F998B287955043648A167118B0EA9122@StevePC><7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6BF00444@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local>
	<fe5b78280906110906w5a140068y2fe91135cc332dcc@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2ECDDE389BCC4E82B855436410A15400@spike>

and its pretty pathetic that with all this so-called or investment the blind 
have an unemployment rate of over 70%. Due to the lack of planning for 
employment and effective support if this were a business proposal the rate 
of return would be pretty poor based on the way the government has handled 
support and enforcement of laws affecting the blind.
Chuck
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "James Pepper" <b75205 at gmail.com>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 9:06 AM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] The Census does not track the blind


> The American Community Survey only tracks the senosry impaired.   That
> incluides the deaf.  We need to know about the blind, the deaf blind, the
> visually impaired and the color blind.  We need to know the status of the
> blind in society, where we need to change things and we cannot do that 
> when
> the government does not track this specific minority.  Including us in a
> general class is not going to do it.
>
> There is no reason to ignore the blind and we need this done NOW, not 10
> years from now, NOW.  All of this should have been done 36 years ago with
> the passing of the Rehabilitation Act.
>
> Our economy spends 50 billion dollars a year on the blind, most of that is
> in government payouts to support the blind. The US Government pays out
> $266,000 to each blind person over their lifetime on average in public
> assistance.  If you mutliply the 50 billion figure over the past 36 years 
> of
> the Rehabilitation Act, the US economy has spent 1.8 Trillion dollars on 
> the
> blind.  The US government should be tracking the results of that 
> expenditure
> but it is not doing it, because the results are terrible.
>
> So who cares if the census is going to have to be redone, do we have to
> spend another 500 billion dollars to wait for a real census just so the
> government policies can maintain us at a 70% unemployement rate?
>
> James Pepper
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net 



From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov  Thu Jun 11 22:32:44 2009
From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel)
Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 17:32:44 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] FW: [Jobs] FW: Job Opportunity With the Department of
 Justice/Please	Share this information wih interested NBA members
Message-ID: <E771EAA0575B844C98712011AE73D7ED3ADA0A2C26@EDUPTCEXMB03.ed.gov>



________________________________
From: jobs-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:jobs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Maurer, Patricia
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 12:30 PM
To: jobs at nfbnet.org
Subject: [Jobs] FW: Job Opportunity With the Department of Justice/Please Share this information wih interested NBA members



________________________________
From: Leake, Staci (USAEO) [mailto:Staci.Leake at usdoj.gov]
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 1:22 PM
To: Taylor, Lisa (CRT); Lopez-Gomez, Mario F (CRT); Deerinwater, Verlin (CRT); Ho-Gonzalez, William (CRM); jobs at wcl.american.edu; mdoherty at wcl.american.edu; tdeavours at ushli.org; Maurer, Patricia; jakers at noblenatl.org; mrlen at worldnet.att.net; mlortiz at hnba.com; justin at lgbtbar.or; jgomez at ncai.org; hacu at hacu.net; info at napaba.org
Subject: Job Opportunity With the Department of Justice/Please Share this information wih interested NBA members


Please see below a summary of a career opportunity with the U.S. Department of Justice, Executive Office for United States Attorneys (EOUSA).   I ask that you distribute this vacancy announcement to the members of your organization and any other interested persons.   Detailed information regarding the position is found below.   If you have any questions or need additional information, do not hesitate to contact me at the number listed below.   Thank you for your assistance.

Staci Leake

Affirmative Employment Program Manager

Equal Employment Opportunity Staff

Executive Office for United States Attorneys

1331 Pennsylvania Avenue, NW, Suite 524-F

Washington, D.C.  20530

Phone:  (202) 616-6209

Fax:  (202) 305-1431

<<SESVacancyinEOUSA.pdf>>

MAJOR DUTIES OF THE DEPUTY DIRECTOR FOR ADMINISTRATION AND MANAGEMENT

The Deputy Director for Administration and Management manages administrative support service nearly 12,000 United States Attorney office employees in over 250 offices nationwide. The candidate selected for this position will manage a wide range of administrative programs including personnel budget and finance; security; facilities; procurement; litigative support; office automation; record management, and telecommunications. In addition, the Deputy Director coordinates efforts with Department of Justice components, other Executive Branch agencies, and the U.S. Court System position reports directly to the Principal Deputy Director of the Executive Office for United States Attorneys.

CLOSING DATE

July 6, 2009

FOR MORE INFORMATION, PLEASE VISIT USAJOBS.COM, Job Announcement Number 09-SES-EOUSA-001
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_______________________________________________
Jobs mailing list
Jobs at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/jobs_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Jobs:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/jobs_nfbnet.org/noel.nightingale%40ed.gov

From stevep.deeley at insightbb.com  Thu Jun 11 22:33:14 2009
From: stevep.deeley at insightbb.com (Steve P. Deeley)
Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 18:33:14 -0400
Subject: [blindlaw] ramifications of receiving Target settlement
	check	for SSI recipients
In-Reply-To: <fe5b78280906111312nc6f2617mbcdabbaa30a33f57@mail.gmail.com>
References: <DD01A1BAD9044775A65CB6C6D43BF548@spike>
	<fe5b78280906111312nc6f2617mbcdabbaa30a33f57@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7B623BF1BE5A44ADA677A5711717BF7C@StevePC>

Yes.

Steve
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "James Pepper" <b75205 at gmail.com>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 4:12 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ramifications of receiving Target settlement check 
for SSI recipients


> So in the future should the amounts collected from companies such as 
> Target
> be directed to a specific institution to provide services for the blind?
> Some way to get around this problem of the SSI beneificaries loosing not
> only the money but thier medications etc.?
>
> We need a clear layout of how to solve these problems without negating the
> solution.
>
> James Pepper
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.64/2170 - Release Date: 06/11/09 
17:59:00



From peagoody at worldnet.att.net  Thu Jun 11 22:48:22 2009
From: peagoody at worldnet.att.net (Ron Dixon)
Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 17:48:22 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] KNFB With Wayfinder
References: <8FBEDE9BD29D4872B9BA066953959939@rons>
	<20090607042910.GB6822@yumi.bluecherry.net>
Message-ID: <AA3532AD950246F0BF89540F102E1EBC@rons>

Thank you for your opinion, Mr. carter.  however, when you get out of school 
and if you pass the Bar, maybe your opinion might mean something.  At this 
point in your career, you probably don't yet realize how much the KNFB 
reader can impact an Attorney's ability to work independently while in 
Court.  Therefore, since this blog was set up for Attorneys to discuss 
better ways of practicing law, then my question is relevant regardless of 
your opinion.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "T. Joseph Carter" <carter.tjoseph at gmail.com>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, June 06, 2009 11:29 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] KNFB With Wayfinder


:I think you'd find a better answer asking the list designed for
: techie questions or blindtlk.  I doubt blindlaw is likely to give you
: the best possible answer.
:
: Joseph
:
:
: On Sat, Jun 06, 2009 at 06:23:01PM -0500, Ron Dixon wrote:
: >Hi Gang:
: >
: >I am having a problem with setting the navigations into my Wayfinder GPS. 
Is there anybody out there using the Wayfinder with the KNFB scanning Cell 
phone and can give me some pointers on what I am doing wrong?  At this 
point, any help is appreciated.
: >
: >_______________________________________________
: >blindlaw mailing list
: >blindlaw at nfbnet.org
: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
: >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
blindlaw:
: 
 >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/carter.tjoseph%40gmail.com
:
: _______________________________________________
: blindlaw mailing list
: blindlaw at nfbnet.org
: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
: To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
blindlaw:
: 
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/peagoody%40worldnet.att.net 



From Tim.Ford at cdph.ca.gov  Thu Jun 11 22:55:39 2009
From: Tim.Ford at cdph.ca.gov (Ford, Tim (CDPH-OLS))
Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 15:55:39 -0700
Subject: [blindlaw] The Census does not track the blind
In-Reply-To: <2ECDDE389BCC4E82B855436410A15400@spike>
References: <20090609033819.GD18034@yumi.bluecherry.net><F405FAAA797B4605A397A8FED1FB73F2@spike><20090609141019.GI18034@yumi.bluecherry.net><fe5b78280906090950h2974859ao745a811589a019e@mail.gmail.com><20090609211528.GB684@yumi.bluecherry.net><fe5b78280906091528y2e1a49dao38c951015f31ef12@mail.gmail.com><20090610194406.GN1330@yumi.bluecherry.net><F998B287955043648A167118B0EA9122@StevePC><7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6BF00444@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local><fe5b78280906110906w5a140068y2fe91135cc332dcc@mail.gmail.com>
	<2ECDDE389BCC4E82B855436410A15400@spike>
Message-ID: <839F18076C66C345BD1C0A4ACA67A1F60315BBDB@dhsexcmsg12.intra.dhs.ca.gov>

This line of e-mails seems to me to be well outside of a blind lawyer
list, not every political or governmental action is something this list
should be discussing, especially since there have been dozens of notes
amongst what seems to be a small group of contributors.  So this is just
one person's vote that perhaps we can move on to more list-appropriate
topics?  

Sincerely,
Tim Ford
 

-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
On Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 3:10 PM
To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] The Census does not track the blind

and its pretty pathetic that with all this so-called or investment the
blind have an unemployment rate of over 70%. Due to the lack of planning
for employment and effective support if this were a business proposal
the rate of return would be pretty poor based on the way the government
has handled support and enforcement of laws affecting the blind.
Chuck
----- Original Message -----
From: "James Pepper" <b75205 at gmail.com>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 9:06 AM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] The Census does not track the blind


> The American Community Survey only tracks the senosry impaired.   That
> incluides the deaf.  We need to know about the blind, the deaf blind, 
> the visually impaired and the color blind.  We need to know the status

> of the blind in society, where we need to change things and we cannot 
> do that when the government does not track this specific minority.  
> Including us in a general class is not going to do it.
>
> There is no reason to ignore the blind and we need this done NOW, not 
> 10 years from now, NOW.  All of this should have been done 36 years 
> ago with the passing of the Rehabilitation Act.
>
> Our economy spends 50 billion dollars a year on the blind, most of 
> that is in government payouts to support the blind. The US Government 
> pays out $266,000 to each blind person over their lifetime on average 
> in public assistance.  If you mutliply the 50 billion figure over the 
> past 36 years of the Rehabilitation Act, the US economy has spent 1.8 
> Trillion dollars on the blind.  The US government should be tracking 
> the results of that expenditure but it is not doing it, because the 
> results are terrible.
>
> So who cares if the census is going to have to be redone, do we have 
> to spend another 500 billion dollars to wait for a real census just so

> the government policies can maintain us at a 70% unemployement rate?
>
> James Pepper
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40s
> bcglobal.net


_______________________________________________
blindlaw mailing list
blindlaw at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
blindlaw:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tim.ford%40cdp
h.ca.gov


From angie.matney at gmail.com  Fri Jun 12 01:53:27 2009
From: angie.matney at gmail.com (Angie Matney)
Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 21:53:27 -0400
Subject: [blindlaw] KNFB With Wayfinder
In-Reply-To: <AA3532AD950246F0BF89540F102E1EBC@rons>
References: <8FBEDE9BD29D4872B9BA066953959939@rons>	<20090607042910.GB6822@yumi.bluecherry.net>
	<AA3532AD950246F0BF89540F102E1EBC@rons>
Message-ID: <4a31b515.1ac1f10a.0691.7785@mx.google.com>

Mr. Dixon, 

Mr. Carter's credentials notwithstanding, he makes a very good point. Many,
many things might be relevant to a blind attorney's practice. That does not
mean that this list is likely to be your best source of information
concerning all of them. While many of us might use these tools, it is much
more likely that someone who spends a lot of time answering techie questions
(either professionally, or simply because it's his hobby) will be better
equipped to address your specific concerns (which, if memory serves, were
nnot related to the practice of law). I don't think Mr. Carter said your
question was irrelevant; I believe he offered you other resources that might
prove mmore fruitful. Given the lack of response to your question on-list
(though I have no way of knowing how many private responses you have
received), I believe he probably has  a point.

Personally, I think this list could be a great place for blind attorneys/law
students to recommend technology that they have found particularly useful.
If the list were to be inundated with tech-support questions, however, it
would lose much of what makes it unique. 

Again, this is my personal opinion. The determination of whether or not your
particular question is relevant here has to be made by the moderators. In
the meantime, you are much more likely to get a meaningful answer in another
forum. Both Wayfinder Access and the KNFB reader have specific maling lists
that are excellent sources of information. The KNFB reader list can be
accessed at www.nfbnet.org. I do not currently have the subscription
information for the Wayfinder list.

I will now return to my lurking-while-studying-for-the-bar mode.

Best,

Angie




-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Ron Dixon
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 6:48 PM
To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] KNFB With Wayfinder

Thank you for your opinion, Mr. carter.  however, when you get out of school

and if you pass the Bar, maybe your opinion might mean something.  At this 
point in your career, you probably don't yet realize how much the KNFB 
reader can impact an Attorney's ability to work independently while in 
Court.  Therefore, since this blog was set up for Attorneys to discuss 
better ways of practicing law, then my question is relevant regardless of 
your opinion.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "T. Joseph Carter" <carter.tjoseph at gmail.com>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, June 06, 2009 11:29 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] KNFB With Wayfinder


:I think you'd find a better answer asking the list designed for
: techie questions or blindtlk.  I doubt blindlaw is likely to give you
: the best possible answer.
:
: Joseph
:
:
: On Sat, Jun 06, 2009 at 06:23:01PM -0500, Ron Dixon wrote:
: >Hi Gang:
: >
: >I am having a problem with setting the navigations into my Wayfinder GPS.

Is there anybody out there using the Wayfinder with the KNFB scanning Cell 
phone and can give me some pointers on what I am doing wrong?  At this 
point, any help is appreciated.
: >
: >_______________________________________________
: >blindlaw mailing list
: >blindlaw at nfbnet.org
: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
: >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
blindlaw:
: 
 
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/carter.tjoseph%40
gmail.com
:
: _______________________________________________
: blindlaw mailing list
: blindlaw at nfbnet.org
: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
: To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
blindlaw:
: 
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/peagoody%40worldne
t.att.net 


_______________________________________________
blindlaw mailing list
blindlaw at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
blindlaw:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie.matney%40gma
il.com



From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net  Fri Jun 12 02:25:46 2009
From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net)
Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 19:25:46 -0700
Subject: [blindlaw] ramifications of receiving Target settlement
	checkfor SSI recipients
In-Reply-To: <fe5b78280906111312nc6f2617mbcdabbaa30a33f57@mail.gmail.com>
References: <DD01A1BAD9044775A65CB6C6D43BF548@spike>
	<fe5b78280906111312nc6f2617mbcdabbaa30a33f57@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C566D923F8FB462A9A340A8015325890@spike>

what is usually done when people who are on SSI receive settlements or 
inheritances special needs trust accounts are set up and the money from a 
settlement is placed in to the account. As the funds in the account are 
administered by a third party or family member and the SSI recipient does 
not have control over the actual money it can't be considered an asset or 
resource for determination of income for SSI purposes.
Chuck
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "James Pepper" <b75205 at gmail.com>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 1:12 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ramifications of receiving Target settlement 
checkfor SSI recipients


> So in the future should the amounts collected from companies such as 
> Target
> be directed to a specific institution to provide services for the blind?
> Some way to get around this problem of the SSI beneificaries loosing not
> only the money but thier medications etc.?
>
> We need a clear layout of how to solve these problems without negating the
> solution.
>
> James Pepper
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net 



From benkarpilow at gmail.com  Fri Jun 12 05:08:50 2009
From: benkarpilow at gmail.com (Ben Karpilow)
Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 22:08:50 -0700
Subject: [blindlaw] electronic versions of the MBE
Message-ID: <965679953DA54B9B8EBFBC94FFAE3453@bentar802wznlv>

Hello all, I will be sitting for the July 2009 California bar exam. The committee of bar examiners has denied my request for an electronic version  of the MBE portion of the exam . I plan to appeal this decision. Has anybody dealt with this issue, and if so, can you share your experience? I appreciate the feedback. Ben




Benjamin K. Karpilow
benkarpilow at gmail.com
707-548-8555

From jweisberg at screncilaw.com  Fri Jun 12 11:27:59 2009
From: jweisberg at screncilaw.com (James Weisberg)
Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 07:27:59 -0400
Subject: [blindlaw] electronic versions of the MBE
References: <965679953DA54B9B8EBFBC94FFAE3453@bentar802wznlv>
Message-ID: <FC50B49ED94B8A45A9AA3CE6D096CAED1E773E@2K3FS1.screnci.local>

The Cal board of Bar Examiners are SCUM.  You would spend your time better trying to find an attorney to sue on your behalf than dealing with the appeal process.  I presume you requested a reader/scrib in case your technology craps out during the exam.  God forbid you need to use them though, the Board does not screen their "readers" and they gave me a completely incompetent reader which I had to use when on day one they could not produce my exam in electronic format as I had requested and they had approved.  I hope you have better luck.  Here's a suggestion:  blow off Cal and take another state's bar and practice federal law in Cal.  Six months after the exam you will actually be licensed!

________________________________

From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org on behalf of Ben Karpilow
Sent: Fri 6/12/2009 1:08 AM
To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
Subject: [blindlaw] electronic versions of the MBE



Hello all, I will be sitting for the July 2009 California bar exam. The committee of bar examiners has denied my request for an electronic version  of the MBE portion of the exam . I plan to appeal this decision. Has anybody dealt with this issue, and if so, can you share your experience? I appreciate the feedback. Ben




Benjamin K. Karpilow
benkarpilow at gmail.com
707-548-8555
_______________________________________________
blindlaw mailing list
blindlaw at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jweisberg%40screncilaw.com


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From JChwalow at nfb.org  Fri Jun 12 12:00:42 2009
From: JChwalow at nfb.org (Chwalow, Judith)
Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 08:00:42 -0400
Subject: [blindlaw] The Census does not track the blind
In-Reply-To: <839F18076C66C345BD1C0A4ACA67A1F60315BBDB@dhsexcmsg12.intra.dhs.ca.gov>
References: <20090609033819.GD18034@yumi.bluecherry.net><F405FAAA797B4605A397A8FED1FB73F2@spike><20090609141019.GI18034@yumi.bluecherry.net><fe5b78280906090950h2974859ao745a811589a019e@mail.gmail.com><20090609211528.GB684@yumi.bluecherry.net><fe5b78280906091528y2e1a49dao38c951015f31ef12@mail.gmail.com><20090610194406.GN1330@yumi.bluecherry.net><F998B287955043648A167118B0EA9122@StevePC><7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6BF00444@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local><fe5b78280906110906w5a140068y2fe91135cc332dcc@mail.gmail.com><2ECDDE389BCC4E82B855436410A15400@spike>
	<839F18076C66C345BD1C0A4ACA67A1F60315BBDB@dhsexcmsg12.intra.dhs.ca.gov>
Message-ID: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6BF00AAA@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local>

The ACS also tracks blind. For the first time a government sponsored
project defines sensory deprivation with two separate questions; deaf
and blind. The census does not. It has never separated deaf from blind.
When trying to find this information I was directed by the census, to
try this survey, which I did and found the information I was looking
for. It is in the set of questions under number 17.

A. Judith Chwalow, DrPH
Director of Research, Jernigan Institute
National Federation of the Blind
1800 Johnson Street
Baltimore, MD 21230
410 659 9314 x2404
jchwalow at NFB.org




-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
On Behalf Of Ford, Tim (CDPH-OLS)
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 6:56 PM
To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
Subject: [blindlaw] The Census does not track the blind

This line of e-mails seems to me to be well outside of a blind lawyer
list, not every political or governmental action is something this list
should be discussing, especially since there have been dozens of notes
amongst what seems to be a small group of contributors.  So this is just
one person's vote that perhaps we can move on to more list-appropriate
topics?  

Sincerely,
Tim Ford
 

-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
On Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 3:10 PM
To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] The Census does not track the blind

and its pretty pathetic that with all this so-called or investment the
blind have an unemployment rate of over 70%. Due to the lack of planning
for employment and effective support if this were a business proposal
the rate of return would be pretty poor based on the way the government
has handled support and enforcement of laws affecting the blind.
Chuck
----- Original Message -----
From: "James Pepper" <b75205 at gmail.com>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 9:06 AM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] The Census does not track the blind


> The American Community Survey only tracks the senosry impaired.   That
> incluides the deaf.  We need to know about the blind, the deaf blind, 
> the visually impaired and the color blind.  We need to know the status

> of the blind in society, where we need to change things and we cannot 
> do that when the government does not track this specific minority.
> Including us in a general class is not going to do it.
>
> There is no reason to ignore the blind and we need this done NOW, not 
> 10 years from now, NOW.  All of this should have been done 36 years 
> ago with the passing of the Rehabilitation Act.
>
> Our economy spends 50 billion dollars a year on the blind, most of 
> that is in government payouts to support the blind. The US Government 
> pays out $266,000 to each blind person over their lifetime on average 
> in public assistance.  If you mutliply the 50 billion figure over the 
> past 36 years of the Rehabilitation Act, the US economy has spent 1.8 
> Trillion dollars on the blind.  The US government should be tracking 
> the results of that expenditure but it is not doing it, because the 
> results are terrible.
>
> So who cares if the census is going to have to be redone, do we have 
> to spend another 500 billion dollars to wait for a real census just so

> the government policies can maintain us at a 70% unemployement rate?
>
> James Pepper
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40s
> bcglobal.net


_______________________________________________
blindlaw mailing list
blindlaw at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
blindlaw:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tim.ford%40cdp
h.ca.gov

_______________________________________________
blindlaw mailing list
blindlaw at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
blindlaw:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jchwalow%40nfb
.org


From DFrye at nfb.org  Fri Jun 12 12:27:51 2009
From: DFrye at nfb.org (Frye, Dan)
Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 08:27:51 -0400
Subject: [blindlaw] ramifications of receiving Target settlementcheckfor
	SSI recipients
In-Reply-To: <C566D923F8FB462A9A340A8015325890@spike>
Message-ID: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6BF00B20@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local>

Colleagues:

The other alternative to this solution is that a Plan to Achieve
Self-Support (PASS) can be established with the Social Security
Administration if the recipient is in school or otherwise working toward
a vocational objective that can be clearly identified. The PASS, if
creatively written, can allow for fairly flexible use of the settlement
monies that, in this instance, would be funneled through the account and
thus not counted as income or resources for purposes of calculating
entitlement to SSI. Social Security has to approve these plans, but
details on how to prepare them and criteria for creating them are
readily available on the SSA Website. It requires a little planning and
attention to accounting, but it is an alternative means for legally
preserving one's SSI benefits when unexpected income and resources from
settlements of this nature or otherwise come one's way. IN general, I
think it would be fair to say that for a sum the size of the Target
settlements in question this approach would prove easier and more
appropriate than creating a special needs trust, but, of course,
everybody's circumstance will be unique. One using a PASS would need to
spend these dollars within forty-eight months, at the outside, including
all opportunities to maximize available PASS extensions.  

With Kind Regards,

***********************
Daniel B. Frye, J.D.
Associate Editor
The Braille Monitor
National Federation of the Blind
Office of the President
1800 Johnson Street
Baltimore, Maryland 21230
Telephone: (410) 659-9314 Ext. 2208
Mobile: (410) 241-7006
Fax: (410) 685-5653
Email: DFrye at nfb.org
Web Address: www.nfb.org
"Voice of the Nation's Blind"
 

-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
On Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 10:26 PM
To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ramifications of receiving Target
settlementcheckfor SSI recipients

what is usually done when people who are on SSI receive settlements or
inheritances special needs trust accounts are set up and the money from
a settlement is placed in to the account. As the funds in the account
are administered by a third party or family member and the SSI recipient
does not have control over the actual money it can't be considered an
asset or resource for determination of income for SSI purposes.
Chuck
----- Original Message -----
From: "James Pepper" <b75205 at gmail.com>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 1:12 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ramifications of receiving Target settlement
checkfor SSI recipients


> So in the future should the amounts collected from companies such as 
> Target be directed to a specific institution to provide services for 
> the blind?
> Some way to get around this problem of the SSI beneificaries loosing 
> not only the money but thier medications etc.?
>
> We need a clear layout of how to solve these problems without negating

> the solution.
>
> James Pepper
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40s
> bcglobal.net


_______________________________________________
blindlaw mailing list
blindlaw at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
blindlaw:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dfrye%40nfb.or
g


From b75205 at gmail.com  Fri Jun 12 13:06:43 2009
From: b75205 at gmail.com (James Pepper)
Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 08:06:43 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] ramifications of receiving Target settlementcheckfor
	SSI recipients
In-Reply-To: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6BF00B20@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local>
References: <C566D923F8FB462A9A340A8015325890@spike>
	<7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6BF00B20@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local>
Message-ID: <fe5b78280906120606n6d1551bcqe3ded332101e3c5c@mail.gmail.com>

Well, given that the SSI beneficiaries are going to be a large percentage of
the people who will be benefiting from these types of lawsuits, you need
their cooperation to get the changes needed to force companies into
compliance for accesssibility, so in the future, these considerations are
going to have to be adopted.

You can't just go around saying oh well they are not paying taxes let's
jteach them a lesson, because they don't have you skills, and in most cases,
they are being discriminated against, hence the lawsuits.

You need these people to be able to benefit from a lawsuit, otherwise why
should they care?  Why should they be included if they will not benefit from
any lawsuit.  They become the people who benefit from the slow improvements
made in technology which is a factor which is driven by IT personnel who
care, not the people who are being forced into compliance.  Improvements are
made by people who are trying to help.  Everything else is just maintenance.

So if you want to get things done, you had better change the attitude and
realize that not everyone is as fortunate as yourselves.  And remember when
people loose their SSI, it is not only the money, its the medications, but
all of the other support that goes with it and so it can be catastrophic the
amount of damage that can be done to these people, just so you can get a
check as a member of the same class as these people.

James Pepper

From stevep.deeley at insightbb.com  Fri Jun 12 14:29:24 2009
From: stevep.deeley at insightbb.com (Steve P. Deeley)
Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 10:29:24 -0400
Subject: [blindlaw] ramifications of receiving Target
	settlementcheckforSSI recipients
In-Reply-To: <fe5b78280906120606n6d1551bcqe3ded332101e3c5c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <C566D923F8FB462A9A340A8015325890@spike>
	<7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6BF00B20@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local>
	<fe5b78280906120606n6d1551bcqe3ded332101e3c5c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <79CEE84E6C5C4FC5B7E8147B6C000026@StevePC>

I know
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "James Pepper" <b75205 at gmail.com>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 9:06 AM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ramifications of receiving Target 
settlementcheckforSSI recipients


> Well, given that the SSI beneficiaries are going to be a large percentage 
> of
> the people who will be benefiting from these types of lawsuits, you need
> their cooperation to get the changes needed to force companies into
> compliance for accesssibility, so in the future, these considerations are
> going to have to be adopted.
>
> You can't just go around saying oh well they are not paying taxes let's
> jteach them a lesson, because they don't have you skills, and in most 
> cases,
> they are being discriminated against, hence the lawsuits.
>
> You need these people to be able to benefit from a lawsuit, otherwise why
> should they care?  Why should they be included if they will not benefit 
> from
> any lawsuit.  They become the people who benefit from the slow 
> improvements
> made in technology which is a factor which is driven by IT personnel who
> care, not the people who are being forced into compliance.  Improvements 
> are
> made by people who are trying to help.  Everything else is just 
> maintenance.
>
> So if you want to get things done, you had better change the attitude and
> realize that not everyone is as fortunate as yourselves.  And remember 
> when
> people loose their SSI, it is not only the money, its the medications, but
> all of the other support that goes with it and so it can be catastrophic 
> the
> amount of damage that can be done to these people, just so you can get a
> check as a member of the same class as these people.
>
> James Pepper
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.65/2171 - Release Date: 06/12/09 
05:55:00



From stevep.deeley at insightbb.com  Fri Jun 12 14:30:07 2009
From: stevep.deeley at insightbb.com (Steve P. Deeley)
Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 10:30:07 -0400
Subject: [blindlaw] The Census does not track the blind
In-Reply-To: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6BF00AAA@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local>
References: <20090609033819.GD18034@yumi.bluecherry.net>
	<F405FAAA797B4605A397A8FED1FB73F2@spike>
	<20090609141019.GI18034@yumi.bluecherry.net>
	<fe5b78280906090950h2974859ao745a811589a019e@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090609211528.GB684@yumi.bluecherry.net>
	<fe5b78280906091528y2e1a49dao38c951015f31ef12@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090610194406.GN1330@yumi.bluecherry.net>
	<F998B287955043648A167118B0EA9122@StevePC>
	<7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6BF00444@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local>
	<fe5b78280906110906w5a140068y2fe91135cc332dcc@mail.gmail.com>
	<2ECDDE389BCC4E82B855436410A15400@spike>
	<839F18076C66C345BD1C0A4ACA67A1F60315BBDB@dhsexcmsg12.intra.dhs.ca.gov>
	<7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6BF00AAA@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local>
Message-ID: <DBD599D1DB09446DA79AB01D79EF20B8@StevePC>

Is the data broken out?
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Chwalow, Judith" <JChwalow at nfb.org>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 8:00 AM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] The Census does not track the blind


> The ACS also tracks blind. For the first time a government sponsored
> project defines sensory deprivation with two separate questions; deaf
> and blind. The census does not. It has never separated deaf from blind.
> When trying to find this information I was directed by the census, to
> try this survey, which I did and found the information I was looking
> for. It is in the set of questions under number 17.
>
> A. Judith Chwalow, DrPH
> Director of Research, Jernigan Institute
> National Federation of the Blind
> 1800 Johnson Street
> Baltimore, MD 21230
> 410 659 9314 x2404
> jchwalow at NFB.org
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
> On Behalf Of Ford, Tim (CDPH-OLS)
> Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 6:56 PM
> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
> Subject: [blindlaw] The Census does not track the blind
>
> This line of e-mails seems to me to be well outside of a blind lawyer
> list, not every political or governmental action is something this list
> should be discussing, especially since there have been dozens of notes
> amongst what seems to be a small group of contributors.  So this is just
> one person's vote that perhaps we can move on to more list-appropriate
> topics?
>
> Sincerely,
> Tim Ford
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
> On Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net
> Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 3:10 PM
> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] The Census does not track the blind
>
> and its pretty pathetic that with all this so-called or investment the
> blind have an unemployment rate of over 70%. Due to the lack of planning
> for employment and effective support if this were a business proposal
> the rate of return would be pretty poor based on the way the government
> has handled support and enforcement of laws affecting the blind.
> Chuck
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "James Pepper" <b75205 at gmail.com>
> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 9:06 AM
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] The Census does not track the blind
>
>
>> The American Community Survey only tracks the senosry impaired.   That
>> incluides the deaf.  We need to know about the blind, the deaf blind,
>> the visually impaired and the color blind.  We need to know the status
>
>> of the blind in society, where we need to change things and we cannot
>> do that when the government does not track this specific minority.
>> Including us in a general class is not going to do it.
>>
>> There is no reason to ignore the blind and we need this done NOW, not
>> 10 years from now, NOW.  All of this should have been done 36 years
>> ago with the passing of the Rehabilitation Act.
>>
>> Our economy spends 50 billion dollars a year on the blind, most of
>> that is in government payouts to support the blind. The US Government
>> pays out $266,000 to each blind person over their lifetime on average
>> in public assistance.  If you mutliply the 50 billion figure over the
>> past 36 years of the Rehabilitation Act, the US economy has spent 1.8
>> Trillion dollars on the blind.  The US government should be tracking
>> the results of that expenditure but it is not doing it, because the
>> results are terrible.
>>
>> So who cares if the census is going to have to be redone, do we have
>> to spend another 500 billion dollars to wait for a real census just so
>
>> the government policies can maintain us at a 70% unemployement rate?
>>
>> James Pepper
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindlaw:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40s
>> bcglobal.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tim.ford%40cdp
> h.ca.gov
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jchwalow%40nfb
> .org
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.65/2171 - Release Date: 06/12/09 
05:55:00



From jackchenonline at hotmail.com  Fri Jun 12 14:39:59 2009
From: jackchenonline at hotmail.com (Jack Chen)
Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 10:39:59 -0400
Subject: [blindlaw] electronic versions of the MBE
References: <965679953DA54B9B8EBFBC94FFAE3453@bentar802wznlv>
	<FC50B49ED94B8A45A9AA3CE6D096CAED1E773E@2K3FS1.screnci.local>
Message-ID: <COL0-DAV105205F84A8CE8718BD73C3430@phx.gbl>

I wasn't aware that California had any reciprocity with other states.  If 
this incorrect, please let us know.
http://www.ameribar.com/californiabarexam.htm
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "James Weisberg" <jweisberg at screncilaw.com>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 7:27 AM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] electronic versions of the MBE


The Cal board of Bar Examiners are SCUM.  You would spend your time better 
trying to find an attorney to sue on your behalf than dealing with the 
appeal process.  I presume you requested a reader/scrib in case your 
technology craps out during the exam.  God forbid you need to use them 
though, the Board does not screen their "readers" and they gave me a 
completely incompetent reader which I had to use when on day one they could 
not produce my exam in electronic format as I had requested and they had 
approved.  I hope you have better luck.  Here's a suggestion:  blow off Cal 
and take another state's bar and practice federal law in Cal.  Six months 
after the exam you will actually be licensed!

________________________________

From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org on behalf of Ben Karpilow
Sent: Fri 6/12/2009 1:08 AM
To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
Subject: [blindlaw] electronic versions of the MBE



Hello all, I will be sitting for the July 2009 California bar exam. The 
committee of bar examiners has denied my request for an electronic version 
of the MBE portion of the exam . I plan to appeal this decision. Has anybody 
dealt with this issue, and if so, can you share your experience? I 
appreciate the feedback. Ben




Benjamin K. Karpilow
benkarpilow at gmail.com
707-548-8555
_______________________________________________
blindlaw mailing list
blindlaw at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
blindlaw:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jweisberg%40screncilaw.com





--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jackchenonline%40hotmail.com
> 



From roddj12 at hotmail.com  Fri Jun 12 16:27:32 2009
From: roddj12 at hotmail.com (Rod Alcidonis)
Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 12:27:32 -0400
Subject: [blindlaw] ramifications of receiving Target settlement check
	for SSI recipients
References: <C566D923F8FB462A9A340A8015325890@spike><7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6BF00B20@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local><fe5b78280906120606n6d1551bcqe3ded332101e3c5c@mail.gmail.com>
	<79CEE84E6C5C4FC5B7E8147B6C000026@StevePC>
Message-ID: <BAY105-DAV9668A9F46EAE8DA5789BABB430@phx.gbl>

I always thought that the legal stragegy here was flaud by entering in a 
settlement where payments would be made directly to the plaintiffs as 
individuals. Given the reason why the suit was brought in the first place, 
any settlement agreements should have required payments to go towards 
something to further access for the blind, or a donation to fund blindness 
organizations providing technology services to the blind. Granted, I am 
saying this without being aware whether there existed a statutory constraint 
in California that prohibited such agreements. The funds could have gone to 
purchase computers for the blind, funded a technology center, etc.

Take care.

Rod Alcidonis, J.D.
C. 718-704-4651
roddj12 at hotmail.com

----- Original Message -----  



From JChwalow at nfb.org  Fri Jun 12 16:33:28 2009
From: JChwalow at nfb.org (Chwalow, Judith)
Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 12:33:28 -0400
Subject: [blindlaw] The Census does not track the blind
In-Reply-To: <DBD599D1DB09446DA79AB01D79EF20B8@StevePC>
References: <20090609033819.GD18034@yumi.bluecherry.net><F405FAAA797B4605A397A8FED1FB73F2@spike><20090609141019.GI18034@yumi.bluecherry.net><fe5b78280906090950h2974859ao745a811589a019e@mail.gmail.com><20090609211528.GB684@yumi.bluecherry.net><fe5b78280906091528y2e1a49dao38c951015f31ef12@mail.gmail.com><20090610194406.GN1330@yumi.bluecherry.net><F998B287955043648A167118B0EA9122@StevePC><7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6BF00444@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local><fe5b78280906110906w5a140068y2fe91135cc332dcc@mail.gmail.com><2ECDDE389BCC4E82B855436410A15400@spike><839F18076C66C345BD1C0A4ACA67A1F60315BBDB@dhsexcmsg12.intra.dhs.ca.gov><7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6BF00AAA@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local>
	<DBD599D1DB09446DA79AB01D79EF20B8@StevePC>
Message-ID: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6BF00D68@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local>

Yes, go to appendix Cfa and you will find the details. Here is the
reference: Matthew Brault, Sharon Stern, Housing and Household
Economic Statistics Division, David Raglin, Decennial Statistical
Studies
Division, 2006 American Community Survey Content Test Report January 3,
2007, Evaluation Report Covering Disability

The large report has incidence and prevalence data, employment is
discussed. 

A. Judith Chwalow, DrPH
Director of Research, Jernigan Institute
National Federation of the Blind
1800 Johnson Street
Baltimore, MD 21230
410 659 9314 x2404
jchwalow at NFB.org


-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
On Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 10:30 AM
To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] The Census does not track the blind

Is the data broken out?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chwalow, Judith" <JChwalow at nfb.org>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 8:00 AM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] The Census does not track the blind


> The ACS also tracks blind. For the first time a government sponsored
> project defines sensory deprivation with two separate questions; deaf
> and blind. The census does not. It has never separated deaf from
blind.
> When trying to find this information I was directed by the census, to
> try this survey, which I did and found the information I was looking
> for. It is in the set of questions under number 17.
>
> A. Judith Chwalow, DrPH
> Director of Research, Jernigan Institute
> National Federation of the Blind
> 1800 Johnson Street
> Baltimore, MD 21230
> 410 659 9314 x2404
> jchwalow at NFB.org
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
> On Behalf Of Ford, Tim (CDPH-OLS)
> Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 6:56 PM
> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
> Subject: [blindlaw] The Census does not track the blind
>
> This line of e-mails seems to me to be well outside of a blind lawyer
> list, not every political or governmental action is something this
list
> should be discussing, especially since there have been dozens of notes
> amongst what seems to be a small group of contributors.  So this is
just
> one person's vote that perhaps we can move on to more list-appropriate
> topics?
>
> Sincerely,
> Tim Ford
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
> On Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net
> Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 3:10 PM
> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] The Census does not track the blind
>
> and its pretty pathetic that with all this so-called or investment the
> blind have an unemployment rate of over 70%. Due to the lack of
planning
> for employment and effective support if this were a business proposal
> the rate of return would be pretty poor based on the way the
government
> has handled support and enforcement of laws affecting the blind.
> Chuck
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "James Pepper" <b75205 at gmail.com>
> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 9:06 AM
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] The Census does not track the blind
>
>
>> The American Community Survey only tracks the senosry impaired.
That
>> incluides the deaf.  We need to know about the blind, the deaf blind,
>> the visually impaired and the color blind.  We need to know the
status
>
>> of the blind in society, where we need to change things and we cannot
>> do that when the government does not track this specific minority.
>> Including us in a general class is not going to do it.
>>
>> There is no reason to ignore the blind and we need this done NOW, not
>> 10 years from now, NOW.  All of this should have been done 36 years
>> ago with the passing of the Rehabilitation Act.
>>
>> Our economy spends 50 billion dollars a year on the blind, most of
>> that is in government payouts to support the blind. The US Government
>> pays out $266,000 to each blind person over their lifetime on average
>> in public assistance.  If you mutliply the 50 billion figure over the
>> past 36 years of the Rehabilitation Act, the US economy has spent 1.8
>> Trillion dollars on the blind.  The US government should be tracking
>> the results of that expenditure but it is not doing it, because the
>> results are terrible.
>>
>> So who cares if the census is going to have to be redone, do we have
>> to spend another 500 billion dollars to wait for a real census just
so
>
>> the government policies can maintain us at a 70% unemployement rate?
>>
>> James Pepper
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindlaw:
>>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40s
>> bcglobal.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindlaw:
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tim.ford%40cdp
> h.ca.gov
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindlaw:
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jchwalow%40nfb
> .org
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%
40insightbb.com


------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------



No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.65/2171 - Release Date:
06/12/09 
05:55:00


_______________________________________________
blindlaw mailing list
blindlaw at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
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blindlaw:
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.org


From stevep.deeley at insightbb.com  Fri Jun 12 19:00:30 2009
From: stevep.deeley at insightbb.com (Steve P. Deeley)
Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 15:00:30 -0400
Subject: [blindlaw] The Census does not track the blind
In-Reply-To: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6BF00D68@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local>
References: <20090609033819.GD18034@yumi.bluecherry.net>
	<F405FAAA797B4605A397A8FED1FB73F2@spike>
	<20090609141019.GI18034@yumi.bluecherry.net>
	<fe5b78280906090950h2974859ao745a811589a019e@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090609211528.GB684@yumi.bluecherry.net>
	<fe5b78280906091528y2e1a49dao38c951015f31ef12@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090610194406.GN1330@yumi.bluecherry.net>
	<F998B287955043648A167118B0EA9122@StevePC>
	<7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6BF00444@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local>
	<fe5b78280906110906w5a140068y2fe91135cc332dcc@mail.gmail.com>
	<2ECDDE389BCC4E82B855436410A15400@spike>
	<839F18076C66C345BD1C0A4ACA67A1F60315BBDB@dhsexcmsg12.intra.dhs.ca.gov>
	<7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6BF00AAA@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local>
	<DBD599D1DB09446DA79AB01D79EF20B8@StevePC>
	<7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6BF00D68@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local>
Message-ID: <58E1AAE28F024237B06CF5C86BBC3563@StevePC>

Thank you.  Can I get to it online?
Steve
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Chwalow, Judith" <JChwalow at nfb.org>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 12:33 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] The Census does not track the blind


> Yes, go to appendix Cfa and you will find the details. Here is the
> reference: Matthew Brault, Sharon Stern, Housing and Household
> Economic Statistics Division, David Raglin, Decennial Statistical
> Studies
> Division, 2006 American Community Survey Content Test Report January 3,
> 2007, Evaluation Report Covering Disability
>
> The large report has incidence and prevalence data, employment is
> discussed.
>
> A. Judith Chwalow, DrPH
> Director of Research, Jernigan Institute
> National Federation of the Blind
> 1800 Johnson Street
> Baltimore, MD 21230
> 410 659 9314 x2404
> jchwalow at NFB.org
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
> On Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley
> Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 10:30 AM
> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] The Census does not track the blind
>
> Is the data broken out?
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Chwalow, Judith" <JChwalow at nfb.org>
> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 8:00 AM
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] The Census does not track the blind
>
>
>> The ACS also tracks blind. For the first time a government sponsored
>> project defines sensory deprivation with two separate questions; deaf
>> and blind. The census does not. It has never separated deaf from
> blind.
>> When trying to find this information I was directed by the census, to
>> try this survey, which I did and found the information I was looking
>> for. It is in the set of questions under number 17.
>>
>> A. Judith Chwalow, DrPH
>> Director of Research, Jernigan Institute
>> National Federation of the Blind
>> 1800 Johnson Street
>> Baltimore, MD 21230
>> 410 659 9314 x2404
>> jchwalow at NFB.org
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>> On Behalf Of Ford, Tim (CDPH-OLS)
>> Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 6:56 PM
>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>> Subject: [blindlaw] The Census does not track the blind
>>
>> This line of e-mails seems to me to be well outside of a blind lawyer
>> list, not every political or governmental action is something this
> list
>> should be discussing, especially since there have been dozens of notes
>> amongst what seems to be a small group of contributors.  So this is
> just
>> one person's vote that perhaps we can move on to more list-appropriate
>> topics?
>>
>> Sincerely,
>> Tim Ford
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>> On Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net
>> Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 3:10 PM
>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] The Census does not track the blind
>>
>> and its pretty pathetic that with all this so-called or investment the
>> blind have an unemployment rate of over 70%. Due to the lack of
> planning
>> for employment and effective support if this were a business proposal
>> the rate of return would be pretty poor based on the way the
> government
>> has handled support and enforcement of laws affecting the blind.
>> Chuck
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "James Pepper" <b75205 at gmail.com>
>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 9:06 AM
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] The Census does not track the blind
>>
>>
>>> The American Community Survey only tracks the senosry impaired.
> That
>>> incluides the deaf.  We need to know about the blind, the deaf blind,
>>> the visually impaired and the color blind.  We need to know the
> status
>>
>>> of the blind in society, where we need to change things and we cannot
>>> do that when the government does not track this specific minority.
>>> Including us in a general class is not going to do it.
>>>
>>> There is no reason to ignore the blind and we need this done NOW, not
>>> 10 years from now, NOW.  All of this should have been done 36 years
>>> ago with the passing of the Rehabilitation Act.
>>>
>>> Our economy spends 50 billion dollars a year on the blind, most of
>>> that is in government payouts to support the blind. The US Government
>>> pays out $266,000 to each blind person over their lifetime on average
>>> in public assistance.  If you mutliply the 50 billion figure over the
>>> past 36 years of the Rehabilitation Act, the US economy has spent 1.8
>>> Trillion dollars on the blind.  The US government should be tracking
>>> the results of that expenditure but it is not doing it, because the
>>> results are terrible.
>>>
>>> So who cares if the census is going to have to be redone, do we have
>>> to spend another 500 billion dollars to wait for a real census just
> so
>>
>>> the government policies can maintain us at a 70% unemployement rate?
>>>
>>> James Pepper
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> blindlaw:
>>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40s
>>> bcglobal.net
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindlaw:
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tim.ford%40cdp
>> h.ca.gov
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindlaw:
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jchwalow%40nfb
>> .org
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindlaw:
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%
> 40insightbb.com
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> --------
>
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.65/2171 - Release Date:
> 06/12/09
> 05:55:00
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jchwalow%40nfb
> .org
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.65/2171 - Release Date: 06/12/09 
05:55:00



From JChwalow at nfb.org  Fri Jun 12 19:29:15 2009
From: JChwalow at nfb.org (Chwalow, Judith)
Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 15:29:15 -0400
Subject: [blindlaw] The Census does not track the blind
In-Reply-To: <58E1AAE28F024237B06CF5C86BBC3563@StevePC>
References: <20090609033819.GD18034@yumi.bluecherry.net><F405FAAA797B4605A397A8FED1FB73F2@spike><20090609141019.GI18034@yumi.bluecherry.net><fe5b78280906090950h2974859ao745a811589a019e@mail.gmail.com><20090609211528.GB684@yumi.bluecherry.net><fe5b78280906091528y2e1a49dao38c951015f31ef12@mail.gmail.com><20090610194406.GN1330@yumi.bluecherry.net><F998B287955043648A167118B0EA9122@StevePC><7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6BF00444@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local><fe5b78280906110906w5a140068y2fe91135cc332dcc@mail.gmail.com><2ECDDE389BCC4E82B855436410A15400@spike><839F18076C66C345BD1C0A4ACA67A1F60315BBDB@dhsexcmsg12.intra.dhs.ca.gov><7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6BF00AAA@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local><DBD599D1DB09446DA79AB01D79EF20B8@StevePC><7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6BF00D68@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local>
	<58E1AAE28F024237B06CF5C86BBC3563@StevePC>
Message-ID: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6BF00E7B@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local>

Yes 

-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
On Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 3:01 PM
To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] The Census does not track the blind

Thank you.  Can I get to it online?
Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chwalow, Judith" <JChwalow at nfb.org>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 12:33 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] The Census does not track the blind


> Yes, go to appendix Cfa and you will find the details. Here is the
> reference: Matthew Brault, Sharon Stern, Housing and Household
> Economic Statistics Division, David Raglin, Decennial Statistical
> Studies
> Division, 2006 American Community Survey Content Test Report January
3,
> 2007, Evaluation Report Covering Disability
>
> The large report has incidence and prevalence data, employment is
> discussed.
>
> A. Judith Chwalow, DrPH
> Director of Research, Jernigan Institute
> National Federation of the Blind
> 1800 Johnson Street
> Baltimore, MD 21230
> 410 659 9314 x2404
> jchwalow at NFB.org
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
> On Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley
> Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 10:30 AM
> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] The Census does not track the blind
>
> Is the data broken out?
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Chwalow, Judith" <JChwalow at nfb.org>
> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 8:00 AM
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] The Census does not track the blind
>
>
>> The ACS also tracks blind. For the first time a government sponsored
>> project defines sensory deprivation with two separate questions; deaf
>> and blind. The census does not. It has never separated deaf from
> blind.
>> When trying to find this information I was directed by the census, to
>> try this survey, which I did and found the information I was looking
>> for. It is in the set of questions under number 17.
>>
>> A. Judith Chwalow, DrPH
>> Director of Research, Jernigan Institute
>> National Federation of the Blind
>> 1800 Johnson Street
>> Baltimore, MD 21230
>> 410 659 9314 x2404
>> jchwalow at NFB.org
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org
[mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>> On Behalf Of Ford, Tim (CDPH-OLS)
>> Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 6:56 PM
>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>> Subject: [blindlaw] The Census does not track the blind
>>
>> This line of e-mails seems to me to be well outside of a blind lawyer
>> list, not every political or governmental action is something this
> list
>> should be discussing, especially since there have been dozens of
notes
>> amongst what seems to be a small group of contributors.  So this is
> just
>> one person's vote that perhaps we can move on to more
list-appropriate
>> topics?
>>
>> Sincerely,
>> Tim Ford
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org
[mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>> On Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net
>> Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 3:10 PM
>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] The Census does not track the blind
>>
>> and its pretty pathetic that with all this so-called or investment
the
>> blind have an unemployment rate of over 70%. Due to the lack of
> planning
>> for employment and effective support if this were a business proposal
>> the rate of return would be pretty poor based on the way the
> government
>> has handled support and enforcement of laws affecting the blind.
>> Chuck
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "James Pepper" <b75205 at gmail.com>
>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 9:06 AM
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] The Census does not track the blind
>>
>>
>>> The American Community Survey only tracks the senosry impaired.
> That
>>> incluides the deaf.  We need to know about the blind, the deaf
blind,
>>> the visually impaired and the color blind.  We need to know the
> status
>>
>>> of the blind in society, where we need to change things and we
cannot
>>> do that when the government does not track this specific minority.
>>> Including us in a general class is not going to do it.
>>>
>>> There is no reason to ignore the blind and we need this done NOW,
not
>>> 10 years from now, NOW.  All of this should have been done 36 years
>>> ago with the passing of the Rehabilitation Act.
>>>
>>> Our economy spends 50 billion dollars a year on the blind, most of
>>> that is in government payouts to support the blind. The US
Government
>>> pays out $266,000 to each blind person over their lifetime on
average
>>> in public assistance.  If you mutliply the 50 billion figure over
the
>>> past 36 years of the Rehabilitation Act, the US economy has spent
1.8
>>> Trillion dollars on the blind.  The US government should be tracking
>>> the results of that expenditure but it is not doing it, because the
>>> results are terrible.
>>>
>>> So who cares if the census is going to have to be redone, do we have
>>> to spend another 500 billion dollars to wait for a real census just
> so
>>
>>> the government policies can maintain us at a 70% unemployement rate?
>>>
>>> James Pepper
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
for
>>> blindlaw:
>>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40s
>>> bcglobal.net
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindlaw:
>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tim.ford%40cdp
>> h.ca.gov
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindlaw:
>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jchwalow%40nfb
>> .org
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindlaw:
>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%
> 40insightbb.com
>
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
> --------
>
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.65/2171 - Release Date:
> 06/12/09
> 05:55:00
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindlaw:
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jchwalow%40nfb
> .org
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%
40insightbb.com


------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------



No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.65/2171 - Release Date:
06/12/09 
05:55:00


_______________________________________________
blindlaw mailing list
blindlaw at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
blindlaw:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jchwalow%40nfb
.org


From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net  Fri Jun 12 22:36:24 2009
From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net)
Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 15:36:24 -0700
Subject: [blindlaw] ramifications of receiving Target settlement
	checkfor SSI recipients
In-Reply-To: <BAY105-DAV9668A9F46EAE8DA5789BABB430@phx.gbl>
References: <C566D923F8FB462A9A340A8015325890@spike><7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6BF00B20@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local><fe5b78280906120606n6d1551bcqe3ded332101e3c5c@mail.gmail.com><79CEE84E6C5C4FC5B7E8147B6C000026@StevePC>
	<BAY105-DAV9668A9F46EAE8DA5789BABB430@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <12699A48418B4EFAAA61A79C36E115A2@spike>

That was also part of the settlement above and beyond the payments to 
individuals. However, the suit was brought as a class action suit and 
payments to individuals benefit members of the class as a whole. They also 
help to mitigate the individual damages and humiliation that blind users 
experience every day on the Internet when they can't access web sites 
equally. payments to individuals experiencing discrimination under the ADa 
and state law are granted by California statute.
Chuck, A satisfied member of the class
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Rod Alcidonis" <roddj12 at hotmail.com>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 9:27 AM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] ramifications of receiving Target settlement 
checkfor SSI recipients


>I always thought that the legal stragegy here was flaud by entering in a 
>settlement where payments would be made directly to the plaintiffs as 
>individuals. Given the reason why the suit was brought in the first place, 
>any settlement agreements should have required payments to go towards 
>something to further access for the blind, or a donation to fund blindness 
>organizations providing technology services to the blind. Granted, I am 
>saying this without being aware whether there existed a statutory 
>constraint in California that prohibited such agreements. The funds could 
>have gone to purchase computers for the blind, funded a technology center, 
>etc.
>
> Take care.
>
> Rod Alcidonis, J.D.
> C. 718-704-4651
> roddj12 at hotmail.com
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net 



From angie.matney at gmail.com  Fri Jun 12 23:53:21 2009
From: angie.matney at gmail.com (Angie Matney)
Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 19:53:21 -0400
Subject: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
In-Reply-To: <FC50B49ED94B8A45A9AA3CE6D096CAED1E773E@2K3FS1.screnci.local>
References: <965679953DA54B9B8EBFBC94FFAE3453@bentar802wznlv>
	<FC50B49ED94B8A45A9AA3CE6D096CAED1E773E@2K3FS1.screnci.local>
Message-ID: <4a32ea72.1ac1f10a.1f2a.648a@mx.google.com>

Hello,

 

I asked for and was granted a Braille MBE and a Braille version of the ssay
questions. My request to write my answers to the essays was denied. I am
supposed to dictate them to a court reporter. The documentation I received
from the VA bar examiners is unclear as to whether or not I will first be
able to prepare my answers in Braille and then dictate them (it specifically
says I can do this for the MBE, but not the essays), or whether I have to
simply dictate my answers. I have serious concerns about my ability to
perform effectively on the exam if it is the latter. I have never taken an
essay test via dictation--I mentioned this in my accommodations request. I
explained why the process was different for the MBE and the essay portion of
the bar, but apparently my explanation was not sufficient, not understood,
or not accepted.

 

Has anyone been granted the option to use a laptop during the state-specific
portion of the Bar exam? It is my understanding that this is fairly common.

 

Virginia does have a program whereby any person taking the exam can register
to take it via laptop, but I have concerns about the accessibility of the
software they use, which disables all but some basic word-processing
functions of the computer. The software is called Exam4, and the maker is
Extegrity. Has anyone had experience with this software and a screen reader?

 

Thanks,

 

Angie

 

 

 

 

 

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From b75205 at gmail.com  Fri Jun 12 23:57:45 2009
From: b75205 at gmail.com (James Pepper)
Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 18:57:45 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] The Census does not track the blind
In-Reply-To: <933A9FCB71AD4A4EA0BFD5FB35CD45CA@StevePC>
References: <20090609033819.GD18034@yumi.bluecherry.net>
	<20090609141019.GI18034@yumi.bluecherry.net>
	<fe5b78280906090950h2974859ao745a811589a019e@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090609211528.GB684@yumi.bluecherry.net>
	<fe5b78280906091528y2e1a49dao38c951015f31ef12@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090610194406.GN1330@yumi.bluecherry.net>
	<F998B287955043648A167118B0EA9122@StevePC>
	<7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6BF00444@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local>
	<fe5b78280906110906w5a140068y2fe91135cc332dcc@mail.gmail.com>
	<933A9FCB71AD4A4EA0BFD5FB35CD45CA@StevePC>
Message-ID: <fe5b78280906121657n32180679n51d5dcda940f9fef@mail.gmail.com>

Stats:

Ok the 54 billion figure came from teh CDC but they changed their website
but we can reconstruct those figures from other sources.  The CDC keeps
track of who is blind for what reason and if you go by their figures there
are a lot more blind people than the government seems to be acknoledging.
Remember these figures include constructions costs and everything for making
things accessible on top of the direct costs to the government.

The figure is $566,000 of added cost for each blind person to take care of
them for their lifetime, over and above any other costs.  I thought it was
$266,000 but it was $566,000.
http://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/dd/vision3.htm#cost  This report was in 2001 and
it estimated that the costs of all the people born blind in 2000 would have
a lifetime cost of 2.5 billion for that year.

The CDC keeps track of eye diseases and statistics of people 40 and over.

 17.2% of that population will get cataracks which is 20.5 million people.
Macular degeneration leading to blindness is only 1.5% of the population and
that is aropund 1.7 million people in this age range while macular
degeneration leading to partial blindness is 6.7% of this over 40 population
or 7.3 million people.  Then you have glaucoma which affects 1.9% or 2.2
million people.   http://www.nei.nih.gov/eyedata/pbd_tables.asp

Diabetic Retinopathy affects 4 million people in our entire population.

So there is a need for a census to figure out just how much we are spending
on this and how to improve these vast expenditures.

James G. Pepper

From stevep.deeley at insightbb.com  Sat Jun 13 01:27:40 2009
From: stevep.deeley at insightbb.com (Steve P. Deeley)
Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 21:27:40 -0400
Subject: [blindlaw] The Census does not track the blind
In-Reply-To: <fe5b78280906121657n32180679n51d5dcda940f9fef@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20090609033819.GD18034@yumi.bluecherry.net>
	<20090609141019.GI18034@yumi.bluecherry.net>
	<fe5b78280906090950h2974859ao745a811589a019e@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090609211528.GB684@yumi.bluecherry.net>
	<fe5b78280906091528y2e1a49dao38c951015f31ef12@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090610194406.GN1330@yumi.bluecherry.net>
	<F998B287955043648A167118B0EA9122@StevePC>
	<7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6BF00444@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local>
	<fe5b78280906110906w5a140068y2fe91135cc332dcc@mail.gmail.com>
	<933A9FCB71AD4A4EA0BFD5FB35CD45CA@StevePC>
	<fe5b78280906121657n32180679n51d5dcda940f9fef@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4880EC445A1D46CB8DB28C397C976934@StevePC>

Wow, I appreciate the information.

Steve

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "James Pepper" <b75205 at gmail.com>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 7:57 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] The Census does not track the blind


> Stats:
>
> Ok the 54 billion figure came from teh CDC but they changed their website
> but we can reconstruct those figures from other sources.  The CDC keeps
> track of who is blind for what reason and if you go by their figures there
> are a lot more blind people than the government seems to be acknoledging.
> Remember these figures include constructions costs and everything for 
> making
> things accessible on top of the direct costs to the government.
>
> The figure is $566,000 of added cost for each blind person to take care of
> them for their lifetime, over and above any other costs.  I thought it was
> $266,000 but it was $566,000.
> http://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/dd/vision3.htm#cost  This report was in 2001 and
> it estimated that the costs of all the people born blind in 2000 would 
> have
> a lifetime cost of 2.5 billion for that year.
>
> The CDC keeps track of eye diseases and statistics of people 40 and over.
>
> 17.2% of that population will get cataracks which is 20.5 million people.
> Macular degeneration leading to blindness is only 1.5% of the population 
> and
> that is aropund 1.7 million people in this age range while macular
> degeneration leading to partial blindness is 6.7% of this over 40 
> population
> or 7.3 million people.  Then you have glaucoma which affects 1.9% or 2.2
> million people.   http://www.nei.nih.gov/eyedata/pbd_tables.asp
>
> Diabetic Retinopathy affects 4 million people in our entire population.
>
> So there is a need for a census to figure out just how much we are 
> spending
> on this and how to improve these vast expenditures.
>
> James G. Pepper
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.65/2171 - Release Date: 06/12/09 
05:55:00



From roddj12 at hotmail.com  Sat Jun 13 01:38:59 2009
From: roddj12 at hotmail.com (Rod Alcidonis)
Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 21:38:59 -0400
Subject: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
References: <965679953DA54B9B8EBFBC94FFAE3453@bentar802wznlv><FC50B49ED94B8A45A9AA3CE6D096CAED1E773E@2K3FS1.screnci.local>
	<4a32ea72.1ac1f10a.1f2a.648a@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <BAY105-DAV128E5CD0054D60C0D247A4BB400@phx.gbl>

Angie:



That's upsetting, and  very upsetting. This is a common accommodation 
granted in many many states, including New York, Pennsylvania, etc. 
Pennsylvania granted this accommodation to me without any fights or 
anything. Once the director of the board knew I was blind, he told me that 
this is how all blind takers take their exams, and that this was standard 
for his office. I cannot imagine having to dictate to someone to write for 
you. The thought processes will be lost in the dictation.



New Jersey is almost trying to do the same thing to me and I am gearing up 
for a long, and hard fight. It's not even my first State; it is my second 
State because it borders with Pennsylvania and there are job prospects there 
for me. They are asking for me to use a reader for the essay portion. I told 
them I have never taken not even a high-school exams in this manner, and I 
will not do it for the bar exam. She told me that she was going to talk more 
with the bar examiners and would get back to me; I am still waiting. I had a 
friendly exchange with her which will certainly escalate should it does not 
go my way! I have taken and won these fights, and I am confident I will take 
them on hard, and I will fight till the end. This is a shame.



If I were you, I would write a letter requesting unlimited (or significantly 
more) time so that you have time to go back and adequately make sure that 
your answers read as you want them to. Otherwise, take legal action. This is 
very and very upsetting. I am writing this as angry as one could be. It is 
just sad that these decisions are being made by "bar examiners."



 As an alternative, I would advise that you immediately place another, 
detailed letter in the record, once again documenting your request should 
anything happen GFB. I would note on the letter that you are taking the exam 
under protest, and list the reasons.



The sighted folks can use their laptop out of preference, but for you, they 
have to provide it as an accommodation. They don't require anyone who is 
unable to hand-write to use a court reporter.



Take care, Angie. try not to let this interfere with your preparation as 
much.



Rod Alcidonis, J.D.
C. 718-704-4651
roddj12 at hotmail.com

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Angie Matney" <angie.matney at gmail.com>
To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 7:53 PM
Subject: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied


> Hello,
>
>
>
> I asked for and was granted a Braille MBE and a Braille version of the 
> ssay
> questions. My request to write my answers to the essays was denied. I am
> supposed to dictate them to a court reporter. The documentation I received
> from the VA bar examiners is unclear as to whether or not I will first be
> able to prepare my answers in Braille and then dictate them (it 
> specifically
> says I can do this for the MBE, but not the essays), or whether I have to
> simply dictate my answers. I have serious concerns about my ability to
> perform effectively on the exam if it is the latter. I have never taken an
> essay test via dictation--I mentioned this in my accommodations request. I
> explained why the process was different for the MBE and the essay portion 
> of
> the bar, but apparently my explanation was not sufficient, not understood,
> or not accepted.
>
>
>
> Has anyone been granted the option to use a laptop during the 
> state-specific
> portion of the Bar exam? It is my understanding that this is fairly 
> common.
>
>
>
> Virginia does have a program whereby any person taking the exam can 
> register
> to take it via laptop, but I have concerns about the accessibility of the
> software they use, which disables all but some basic word-processing
> functions of the computer. The software is called Exam4, and the maker is
> Extegrity. Has anyone had experience with this software and a screen 
> reader?
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
>
>
> Angie
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail.com
> 



From dandrews at visi.com  Sat Jun 13 03:02:21 2009
From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews)
Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 22:02:21 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] Let's Tone Down our Comments
Message-ID: <auto-000106154297@mailfront2.g2host.com>

There have been several conversations on this list, in the past 
couple days, where statements made by individuals wither bordered on, 
or were personal attacks against others.

I know that most of you are lawyers, student lawyers, or would-be 
lawyers, and have strong opinions and are willing to state 
them.  Nonetheless, as Moderator I need to remind you that personal 
attacks, even if justified (smile,) are against list rules and 
policy.  If your message consists of something personal about another 
list member, your speculating on her motives for posting a message 
etc., well then, don't post it.  If these attacks persist, people 
will be removed and/or every message will first have to be approved by me.

David Andrews, Moderator



From benkarpilow at gmail.com  Sat Jun 13 05:08:39 2009
From: benkarpilow at gmail.com (Ben Karpilow)
Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 22:08:39 -0700
Subject: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
References: <965679953DA54B9B8EBFBC94FFAE3453@bentar802wznlv><FC50B49ED94B8A45A9AA3CE6D096CAED1E773E@2K3FS1.screnci.local>
	<4a32ea72.1ac1f10a.1f2a.648a@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <E27825F630D4475CB195556A00032034@bentar802wznlv>

Angie, I'm taking the July California bar  and have been granted use of my 
laptop for the essay portion of the exam. California requires  bar 
laptoppers  to install a piece of software called exam soft, which sounds 
similar to Exam4.  However, apparently exam soft is not compatible with 
jaws,meaning I must wipe my computer clean of all superfluous software and 
text files  before taking the exam.  Perhaps, as you inquired, someone on 
this list knows whether Exam4 is compatible with a screen reader. Or, 
perhaps someone at the VA state bar office can tell you that.  That the NCBE 
habitually denies blind test takers use of their technology is an absolute 
joke. I was denied an electronic version of the MBE and am currently in the 
appeals process.  Good luck.

Ben


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Angie Matney" <angie.matney at gmail.com>
To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 4:53 PM
Subject: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied


> Hello,
>
>
>
> I asked for and was granted a Braille MBE and a Braille version of the 
> ssay
> questions. My request to write my answers to the essays was denied. I am
> supposed to dictate them to a court reporter. The documentation I received
> from the VA bar examiners is unclear as to whether or not I will first be
> able to prepare my answers in Braille and then dictate them (it 
> specifically
> says I can do this for the MBE, but not the essays), or whether I have to
> simply dictate my answers. I have serious concerns about my ability to
> perform effectively on the exam if it is the latter. I have never taken an
> essay test via dictation--I mentioned this in my accommodations request. I
> explained why the process was different for the MBE and the essay portion 
> of
> the bar, but apparently my explanation was not sufficient, not understood,
> or not accepted.
>
>
>
> Has anyone been granted the option to use a laptop during the 
> state-specific
> portion of the Bar exam? It is my understanding that this is fairly 
> common.
>
>
>
> Virginia does have a program whereby any person taking the exam can 
> register
> to take it via laptop, but I have concerns about the accessibility of the
> software they use, which disables all but some basic word-processing
> functions of the computer. The software is called Exam4, and the maker is
> Extegrity. Has anyone had experience with this software and a screen 
> reader?
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
>
>
> Angie
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/benkarpilow%40gmail.com
> 



From b75205 at gmail.com  Sat Jun 13 12:12:16 2009
From: b75205 at gmail.com (James Pepper)
Date: Sat, 13 Jun 2009 07:12:16 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
In-Reply-To: <E27825F630D4475CB195556A00032034@bentar802wznlv>
References: <965679953DA54B9B8EBFBC94FFAE3453@bentar802wznlv>
	<FC50B49ED94B8A45A9AA3CE6D096CAED1E773E@2K3FS1.screnci.local>
	<4a32ea72.1ac1f10a.1f2a.648a@mx.google.com>
	<E27825F630D4475CB195556A00032034@bentar802wznlv>
Message-ID: <fe5b78280906130512x4e2a0fe5nae43c6ac85e9f67a@mail.gmail.com>

The University of Ediburgh did a study on Exam4 here is the URL:
http://www.tla.ed.ac.uk/centre/PrincipalsTeachingAward/documents/eexamsreport_final09.pdf

The University of Ediburgh is rquired to be accessible to the blind.  I have
only read the first part of this document and it should be a good starting
place for your concerns.

Apparently without looking at the software Exam4 is designed to limit your
access to virtual operating systems and other software on your system.  But
they do have an "open" mode which will allow you access to your system
software.  So this will be a matter of argument between the test providers
and you as to whether you can access your screen reader or not.

Exam4 states in its FAQ that they are providing the same amount of access to
word processing that you would have if you were writing out your essay with
a pen and paper.  That is the standard they are trying to achieve, hence the
reluctance to use any software.

James Pepper

From b75205 at gmail.com  Sat Jun 13 12:24:44 2009
From: b75205 at gmail.com (James Pepper)
Date: Sat, 13 Jun 2009 07:24:44 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
In-Reply-To: <fe5b78280906130512x4e2a0fe5nae43c6ac85e9f67a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <965679953DA54B9B8EBFBC94FFAE3453@bentar802wznlv>
	<FC50B49ED94B8A45A9AA3CE6D096CAED1E773E@2K3FS1.screnci.local>
	<4a32ea72.1ac1f10a.1f2a.648a@mx.google.com>
	<E27825F630D4475CB195556A00032034@bentar802wznlv>
	<fe5b78280906130512x4e2a0fe5nae43c6ac85e9f67a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <fe5b78280906130524p422b47cawff6d6ae564233d32@mail.gmail.com>

No this article is of no help. sorry about that.

James

From stevep.deeley at insightbb.com  Sat Jun 13 16:27:10 2009
From: stevep.deeley at insightbb.com (Steve P. Deeley)
Date: Sat, 13 Jun 2009 12:27:10 -0400
Subject: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
In-Reply-To: <fe5b78280906130512x4e2a0fe5nae43c6ac85e9f67a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <965679953DA54B9B8EBFBC94FFAE3453@bentar802wznlv>
	<FC50B49ED94B8A45A9AA3CE6D096CAED1E773E@2K3FS1.screnci.local>
	<4a32ea72.1ac1f10a.1f2a.648a@mx.google.com>
	<E27825F630D4475CB195556A00032034@bentar802wznlv>
	<fe5b78280906130512x4e2a0fe5nae43c6ac85e9f67a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7FEBDA4908AF453A983DA3CE6FEC82BD@StevePC>

Wow what an interesting study.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "James Pepper" <b75205 at gmail.com>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, June 13, 2009 8:12 AM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied


> The University of Ediburgh did a study on Exam4 here is the URL:
> http://www.tla.ed.ac.uk/centre/PrincipalsTeachingAward/documents/eexamsreport_final09.pdf
>
> The University of Ediburgh is rquired to be accessible to the blind.  I 
> have
> only read the first part of this document and it should be a good starting
> place for your concerns.
>
> Apparently without looking at the software Exam4 is designed to limit your
> access to virtual operating systems and other software on your system. 
> But
> they do have an "open" mode which will allow you access to your system
> software.  So this will be a matter of argument between the test providers
> and you as to whether you can access your screen reader or not.
>
> Exam4 states in its FAQ that they are providing the same amount of access 
> to
> word processing that you would have if you were writing out your essay 
> with
> a pen and paper.  That is the standard they are trying to achieve, hence 
> the
> reluctance to use any software.
>
> James Pepper
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.67/2173 - Release Date: 06/13/09 
05:53:00



From stevep.deeley at insightbb.com  Sat Jun 13 16:39:20 2009
From: stevep.deeley at insightbb.com (Steve P. Deeley)
Date: Sat, 13 Jun 2009 12:39:20 -0400
Subject: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
In-Reply-To: <BAY105-DAV128E5CD0054D60C0D247A4BB400@phx.gbl>
References: <965679953DA54B9B8EBFBC94FFAE3453@bentar802wznlv>
	<FC50B49ED94B8A45A9AA3CE6D096CAED1E773E@2K3FS1.screnci.local>
	<4a32ea72.1ac1f10a.1f2a.648a@mx.google.com>
	<BAY105-DAV128E5CD0054D60C0D247A4BB400@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <87DC98CD3CF247B6AE64467B9BE384EE@StevePC>

Did they let you use spell-check?
Did they have a proctor in the room with you?


Steve

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Rod Alcidonis" <roddj12 at hotmail.com>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 9:38 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied


> Angie:
>
>
>
> That's upsetting, and  very upsetting. This is a common accommodation
> granted in many many states, including New York, Pennsylvania, etc.
> Pennsylvania granted this accommodation to me without any fights or
> anything. Once the director of the board knew I was blind, he told me that
> this is how all blind takers take their exams, and that this was standard
> for his office. I cannot imagine having to dictate to someone to write for
> you. The thought processes will be lost in the dictation.
>
>
>
> New Jersey is almost trying to do the same thing to me and I am gearing up
> for a long, and hard fight. It's not even my first State; it is my second
> State because it borders with Pennsylvania and there are job prospects 
> there
> for me. They are asking for me to use a reader for the essay portion. I 
> told
> them I have never taken not even a high-school exams in this manner, and I
> will not do it for the bar exam. She told me that she was going to talk 
> more
> with the bar examiners and would get back to me; I am still waiting. I had 
> a
> friendly exchange with her which will certainly escalate should it does 
> not
> go my way! I have taken and won these fights, and I am confident I will 
> take
> them on hard, and I will fight till the end. This is a shame.
>
>
>
> If I were you, I would write a letter requesting unlimited (or 
> significantly
> more) time so that you have time to go back and adequately make sure that
> your answers read as you want them to. Otherwise, take legal action. This 
> is
> very and very upsetting. I am writing this as angry as one could be. It is
> just sad that these decisions are being made by "bar examiners."
>
>
>
> As an alternative, I would advise that you immediately place another,
> detailed letter in the record, once again documenting your request should
> anything happen GFB. I would note on the letter that you are taking the 
> exam
> under protest, and list the reasons.
>
>
>
> The sighted folks can use their laptop out of preference, but for you, 
> they
> have to provide it as an accommodation. They don't require anyone who is
> unable to hand-write to use a court reporter.
>
>
>
> Take care, Angie. try not to let this interfere with your preparation as
> much.
>
>
>
> Rod Alcidonis, J.D.
> C. 718-704-4651
> roddj12 at hotmail.com
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Angie Matney" <angie.matney at gmail.com>
> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 7:53 PM
> Subject: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
>
>
>> Hello,
>>
>>
>>
>> I asked for and was granted a Braille MBE and a Braille version of the
>> ssay
>> questions. My request to write my answers to the essays was denied. I am
>> supposed to dictate them to a court reporter. The documentation I 
>> received
>> from the VA bar examiners is unclear as to whether or not I will first be
>> able to prepare my answers in Braille and then dictate them (it
>> specifically
>> says I can do this for the MBE, but not the essays), or whether I have to
>> simply dictate my answers. I have serious concerns about my ability to
>> perform effectively on the exam if it is the latter. I have never taken 
>> an
>> essay test via dictation--I mentioned this in my accommodations request. 
>> I
>> explained why the process was different for the MBE and the essay portion
>> of
>> the bar, but apparently my explanation was not sufficient, not 
>> understood,
>> or not accepted.
>>
>>
>>
>> Has anyone been granted the option to use a laptop during the
>> state-specific
>> portion of the Bar exam? It is my understanding that this is fairly
>> common.
>>
>>
>>
>> Virginia does have a program whereby any person taking the exam can
>> register
>> to take it via laptop, but I have concerns about the accessibility of the
>> software they use, which disables all but some basic word-processing
>> functions of the computer. The software is called Exam4, and the maker is
>> Extegrity. Has anyone had experience with this software and a screen
>> reader?
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>>
>>
>> Angie
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindlaw:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail.com
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



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05:53:00



From stiehm.law at juno.com  Sat Jun 13 21:46:16 2009
From: stiehm.law at juno.com (Patrick H. Stiehm)
Date: Sat, 13 Jun 2009 17:46:16 -0400
Subject: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
Message-ID: <20090613.174617.4596.0.stiehm.law@juno.com>

Dear Angie,

It sounds like they are trying to accommodate you.  It may not be
satisfactory yet, but I can assure you that they are doing better than
some public agencies in Virginia.  Permit me to make suggest three things
to you, as follows:

1.  Think about doing it with a court reporter.  This is not like
dictating to someone across the desk from you.  A court reporter, is
suppose to be able to do a verbatim transcription as normal talking
speed.  It should be like taking a test where you answer the questions
orally.  Make sure that the permit you to have your answers read back so
you can make corrections and change your answers to the extent you need
to.  You may or may not need to have extra time do that.  In any case ask
for it.

2.  Fully document the problems you for see with the method they want you
to use and offer solutions, if you can.  This will get you much farther
than to threaten litigation right out of the gate.  After all you can
always use that option, later if you have to.

3.  Ask for the names and contact number of any successful blind
applicants who have taken the test as they suggest, so you can talk to
them and learn from their experience.    You never know what you might
find out, one way or the other, that will be of help later.

In any case good luck and let use know how it works out.

Patrick H. Stiehm
Stiehm Law Office
Alexandria, VA 22309
703-360-1089 (Voice)
703-935-8266 (Fax)
 
 
On Fri, 12 Jun 2009 19:53:21 -0400 "Angie Matney"
<angie.matney at gmail.com> writes:
> Hello,
> 
>  
> 
> I asked for and was granted a Braille MBE and a Braille version of 
> the ssay
> questions. My request to write my answers to the essays was denied. 
> I am
> supposed to dictate them to a court reporter. The documentation I 
> received
> from the VA bar examiners is unclear as to whether or not I will 
> first be
> able to prepare my answers in Braille and then dictate them (it 
> specifically
> says I can do this for the MBE, but not the essays), or whether I 
> have to
> simply dictate my answers. I have serious concerns about my ability 
> to
> perform effectively on the exam if it is the latter. I have never 
> taken an
> essay test via dictation--I mentioned this in my accommodations 
> request. I
> explained why the process was different for the MBE and the essay 
> portion of
> the bar, but apparently my explanation was not sufficient, not 
> understood,
> or not accepted.
> 
>  
> 
> Has anyone been granted the option to use a laptop during the 
> state-specific
> portion of the Bar exam? It is my understanding that this is fairly 
> common.
> 
>  
> 
> Virginia does have a program whereby any person taking the exam can 
> register
> to take it via laptop, but I have concerns about the accessibility 
> of the
> software they use, which disables all but some basic 
> word-processing
> functions of the computer. The software is called Exam4, and the 
> maker is
> Extegrity. Has anyone had experience with this software and a screen 
> reader?
> 
>  
> 
> Thanks,
> 
>  
> 
> Angie
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> 
 
____________________________________________________________
Free information - Learn about Criminal Lawyers. Click here.
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/BLSrjpTOVoLbjWAJw0inLJmH78cq1JzrJQLy7POVQCTkQslkaKIO6ESri4g/


From angie.matney at gmail.com  Sun Jun 14 00:40:46 2009
From: angie.matney at gmail.com (Angie Matney)
Date: Sat, 13 Jun 2009 20:40:46 -0400
Subject: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
In-Reply-To: <20090613.174617.4596.0.stiehm.law@juno.com>
References: <20090613.174617.4596.0.stiehm.law@juno.com>
Message-ID: <4a34470b.04c2f10a.69e3.409f@mx.google.com>

Hi Patrick,

My comments are interspersed with yours below.


<<It sounds like they are trying to accommodate you.  It may not be
satisfactory yet, but I can assure you that they are doing better than
some public agencies in Virginia.>>

I worked for the state--for two separate agencies! (grin) Yes, I agree: They
are trying to accommodate me. But I believe the accommodation they have
offered is unsatisfactory.


<<1.  Think about doing it with a court reporter.  This is not like
dictating to someone across the desk from you.  A court reporter, is
suppose to be able to do a verbatim transcription as normal talking
speed.  It should be like taking a test where you answer the questions
orally.  Make sure that the permit you to have your answers read back so
you can make corrections and change your answers to the extent you need
to.  You may or may not need to have extra time do that.  In any case ask
for it.>>

Yes, I'm aware of this. I have never taken such an oral test. Besides. The
bar is not designed to be taken orally. For this reason, I do not believe a
court reporter is the best accommodation for the Bar exam.


<<2.  Fully document the problems you for see with the method they want you
to use and offer solutions, if you can.  This will get you much farther
than to threaten litigation right out of the gate.  After all you can
always use that option, later if you have to.>>

Thanks--this is my plan. I am going to call them on Monday to discuss
elements of the situation which might not have occurred to them. I am going
to point out that since I will have the questions in Braille, the questions
themselves will never be in the memory of my computer. I am also going to
point out that it would be possible for me to save all work to an external
flash drive or memory card. There are several other similar factors that I
believe they have not considered.

<<3.  Ask for the names and contact number of any successful blind
applicants who have taken the test as they suggest, so you can talk to
them and learn from their experience.    You never know what you might
find out, one way or the other, that will be of help later.>>

If it turns out that I *must* take the Bar with thtis method, I might do
this; however, I do not want to perpetuate the mmisconception that an
accommodation that is appropriate for one person will be the best way for
all blind ntest-takers to take the Bar exam.

<<In any case good luck and let use know how it works out.>>

Thanks very much.

Angie



Patrick H. Stiehm
Stiehm Law Office
Alexandria, VA 22309
703-360-1089 (Voice)
703-935-8266 (Fax)
 
 
On Fri, 12 Jun 2009 19:53:21 -0400 "Angie Matney"
<angie.matney at gmail.com> writes:
> Hello,
> 
>  
> 
> I asked for and was granted a Braille MBE and a Braille version of 
> the ssay
> questions. My request to write my answers to the essays was denied. 
> I am
> supposed to dictate them to a court reporter. The documentation I 
> received
> from the VA bar examiners is unclear as to whether or not I will 
> first be
> able to prepare my answers in Braille and then dictate them (it 
> specifically
> says I can do this for the MBE, but not the essays), or whether I 
> have to
> simply dictate my answers. I have serious concerns about my ability 
> to
> perform effectively on the exam if it is the latter. I have never 
> taken an
> essay test via dictation--I mentioned this in my accommodations 
> request. I
> explained why the process was different for the MBE and the essay 
> portion of
> the bar, but apparently my explanation was not sufficient, not 
> understood,
> or not accepted.
> 
>  
> 
> Has anyone been granted the option to use a laptop during the 
> state-specific
> portion of the Bar exam? It is my understanding that this is fairly 
> common.
> 
>  
> 
> Virginia does have a program whereby any person taking the exam can 
> register
> to take it via laptop, but I have concerns about the accessibility 
> of the
> software they use, which disables all but some basic 
> word-processing
> functions of the computer. The software is called Exam4, and the 
> maker is
> Extegrity. Has anyone had experience with this software and a screen 
> reader?
> 
>  
> 
> Thanks,
> 
>  
> 
> Angie
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> 
 
____________________________________________________________
Free information - Learn about Criminal Lawyers. Click here.
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/BLSrjpTOVoLbjWAJw0inLJmH78cq1Jzr
JQLy7POVQCTkQslkaKIO6ESri4g/

_______________________________________________
blindlaw mailing list
blindlaw at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
blindlaw:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie.matney%40gma
il.com



From JMcCarthy at nfb.org  Sun Jun 14 16:23:00 2009
From: JMcCarthy at nfb.org (McCarthy, Jim)
Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 12:23:00 -0400
Subject: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
In-Reply-To: <E27825F630D4475CB195556A00032034@bentar802wznlv>
Message-ID: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6BF01001@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local>

To be fair about the MBE part of things, I actually think that
California is denying your request because they cannot get an electronic
version from the multistate Bar Examination body.  It would seem that an
accessible MBE is possible, but I don't think they have done anything to
make it a reality.  It seems, therefore, that protesting the state's
board of examiners decision, which I think is the result of their
inability to get from the MBE folks what you ask for, will not get you
very far.  In recent years I have thought about this some because as Rod
states, it seems that most states, apparently but for Virginia, allow
use of a computer for the essay part of their exams these days.  The
legal profession certainly is slow to change.
Best
Jim McCarthy   

-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
On Behalf Of Ben Karpilow
Sent: Saturday, June 13, 2009 1:09 AM
To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied

Angie, I'm taking the July California bar  and have been granted use of
my laptop for the essay portion of the exam. California requires  bar
laptoppers  to install a piece of software called exam soft, which
sounds similar to Exam4.  However, apparently exam soft is not
compatible with jaws,meaning I must wipe my computer clean of all
superfluous software and text files  before taking the exam.  Perhaps,
as you inquired, someone on this list knows whether Exam4 is compatible
with a screen reader. Or, perhaps someone at the VA state bar office can
tell you that.  That the NCBE habitually denies blind test takers use of
their technology is an absolute joke. I was denied an electronic version
of the MBE and am currently in the appeals process.  Good luck.

Ben


----- Original Message -----
From: "Angie Matney" <angie.matney at gmail.com>
To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 4:53 PM
Subject: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied


> Hello,
>
>
>
> I asked for and was granted a Braille MBE and a Braille version of the

> ssay
> questions. My request to write my answers to the essays was denied. I
am
> supposed to dictate them to a court reporter. The documentation I
received
> from the VA bar examiners is unclear as to whether or not I will first
be
> able to prepare my answers in Braille and then dictate them (it 
> specifically
> says I can do this for the MBE, but not the essays), or whether I have
to
> simply dictate my answers. I have serious concerns about my ability to
> perform effectively on the exam if it is the latter. I have never
taken an
> essay test via dictation--I mentioned this in my accommodations
request. I
> explained why the process was different for the MBE and the essay
portion 
> of
> the bar, but apparently my explanation was not sufficient, not
understood,
> or not accepted.
>
>
>
> Has anyone been granted the option to use a laptop during the 
> state-specific
> portion of the Bar exam? It is my understanding that this is fairly 
> common.
>
>
>
> Virginia does have a program whereby any person taking the exam can 
> register
> to take it via laptop, but I have concerns about the accessibility of
the
> software they use, which disables all but some basic word-processing
> functions of the computer. The software is called Exam4, and the maker
is
> Extegrity. Has anyone had experience with this software and a screen 
> reader?
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
>
>
> Angie
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>


------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------


> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/benkarpilow%40
gmail.com
> 


_______________________________________________
blindlaw mailing list
blindlaw at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
blindlaw:
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b.org


From roddj12 at hotmail.com  Sun Jun 14 18:45:02 2009
From: roddj12 at hotmail.com (Rod Alcidonis)
Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 14:45:02 -0400
Subject: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
References: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6BF01001@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local>
Message-ID: <BAY105-DAV3286CB50FCFD6FE77B90ABB410@phx.gbl>

Jim:

You are absolutely right. The director of the Board of Law Examiners in 
Pennsylvania told me the same thing. He said he would be glad to allow me to 
take the MBE electronically but since its not his exam, and the MBE folks 
aren't allowing it, he has to comply. The denial for the essay, however, is 
a state matter.

Rod Alcidonis, J.D.
C. 718-704-4651
roddj12 at hotmail.com

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "McCarthy, Jim" <JMcCarthy at nfb.org>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 12:23 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied


> To be fair about the MBE part of things, I actually think that
> California is denying your request because they cannot get an electronic
> version from the multistate Bar Examination body.  It would seem that an
> accessible MBE is possible, but I don't think they have done anything to
> make it a reality.  It seems, therefore, that protesting the state's
> board of examiners decision, which I think is the result of their
> inability to get from the MBE folks what you ask for, will not get you
> very far.  In recent years I have thought about this some because as Rod
> states, it seems that most states, apparently but for Virginia, allow
> use of a computer for the essay part of their exams these days.  The
> legal profession certainly is slow to change.
> Best
> Jim McCarthy
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
> On Behalf Of Ben Karpilow
> Sent: Saturday, June 13, 2009 1:09 AM
> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
>
> Angie, I'm taking the July California bar  and have been granted use of
> my laptop for the essay portion of the exam. California requires  bar
> laptoppers  to install a piece of software called exam soft, which
> sounds similar to Exam4.  However, apparently exam soft is not
> compatible with jaws,meaning I must wipe my computer clean of all
> superfluous software and text files  before taking the exam.  Perhaps,
> as you inquired, someone on this list knows whether Exam4 is compatible
> with a screen reader. Or, perhaps someone at the VA state bar office can
> tell you that.  That the NCBE habitually denies blind test takers use of
> their technology is an absolute joke. I was denied an electronic version
> of the MBE and am currently in the appeals process.  Good luck.
>
> Ben
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Angie Matney" <angie.matney at gmail.com>
> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 4:53 PM
> Subject: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
>
>
>> Hello,
>>
>>
>>
>> I asked for and was granted a Braille MBE and a Braille version of the
>
>> ssay
>> questions. My request to write my answers to the essays was denied. I
> am
>> supposed to dictate them to a court reporter. The documentation I
> received
>> from the VA bar examiners is unclear as to whether or not I will first
> be
>> able to prepare my answers in Braille and then dictate them (it
>> specifically
>> says I can do this for the MBE, but not the essays), or whether I have
> to
>> simply dictate my answers. I have serious concerns about my ability to
>> perform effectively on the exam if it is the latter. I have never
> taken an
>> essay test via dictation--I mentioned this in my accommodations
> request. I
>> explained why the process was different for the MBE and the essay
> portion
>> of
>> the bar, but apparently my explanation was not sufficient, not
> understood,
>> or not accepted.
>>
>>
>>
>> Has anyone been granted the option to use a laptop during the
>> state-specific
>> portion of the Bar exam? It is my understanding that this is fairly
>> common.
>>
>>
>>
>> Virginia does have a program whereby any person taking the exam can
>> register
>> to take it via laptop, but I have concerns about the accessibility of
> the
>> software they use, which disables all but some basic word-processing
>> functions of the computer. The software is called Exam4, and the maker
> is
>> Extegrity. Has anyone had experience with this software and a screen
>> reader?
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>>
>>
>> Angie
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> --------
>
>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindlaw:
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/benkarpilow%40
> gmail.com
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jmccarthy%40nf
> b.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail.com
> 



From angie.matney at gmail.com  Sun Jun 14 19:18:31 2009
From: angie.matney at gmail.com (Angie Matney)
Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 15:18:31 -0400
Subject: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
In-Reply-To: <BAY105-DAV3286CB50FCFD6FE77B90ABB410@phx.gbl>
References: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6BF01001@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local>
	<BAY105-DAV3286CB50FCFD6FE77B90ABB410@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <4a354d03.86c3f10a.0d1b.4f44@mx.google.com>

For those who are lucky enough to be able to use a laptop on the essays, I
have a thought. If I am ultimately granted this accommodation, I expect the
Board will ask me to wipe my computer clean. I believe that, instead of
gutting my computer (and then worrying that I have inadvertently left
something on there that shouldn't be there), I am going to buy a second
netbook for use on the bar. A netbook costs around $400. I might buy one
just like the one I am using now. I can always sell it at a discount after
I'm done. (Then again, I might keep it and turn it into a linux
machine...but that''s a topic of discussion for another list.) Current
netbooks comply with the technical requirements that Virginia has for
laptops. Also, the batter ycan last for an entire day of testing without
needing to be recharged.

This is not exactly the cheapest solution, but I believe it's what I will do
it I need a clean computer.

Angie



From b.schulz at sbcglobal.net  Sun Jun 14 22:50:45 2009
From: b.schulz at sbcglobal.net (Bryan Schulz)
Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 17:50:45 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
References: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6BF01001@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local><BAY105-DAV3286CB50FCFD6FE77B90ABB410@phx.gbl>
	<4a354d03.86c3f10a.0d1b.4f44@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <8890DEF2DAEF4AC89881B5750993217B@notebook>

Hi,

DUMB!
buy another 2.5" laptop hard drive and a thin sata to usb enclosure.
then use casper to clone your drive to the second hard drive as it is free 
for 30 days.
then uninstall everything you have to in order to comply with the testing 
rules.
after the test, swap the hard drives as the new one will most likely have 
much more capacity and you could then use the original smaller drive in the 
usb enclosure for extra storage.
the new drive and enclosure will cost about $80.

Bryan Schulz
The BEST Solution
www.best-acts.com

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Angie Matney" <angie.matney at gmail.com>
To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 2:18 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied


> For those who are lucky enough to be able to use a laptop on the essays, I
> have a thought. If I am ultimately granted this accommodation, I expect 
> the
> Board will ask me to wipe my computer clean. I believe that, instead of
> gutting my computer (and then worrying that I have inadvertently left
> something on there that shouldn't be there), I am going to buy a second
> netbook for use on the bar. A netbook costs around $400. I might buy one
> just like the one I am using now. I can always sell it at a discount after
> I'm done. (Then again, I might keep it and turn it into a linux
> machine...but that''s a topic of discussion for another list.) Current
> netbooks comply with the technical requirements that Virginia has for
> laptops. Also, the batter ycan last for an entire day of testing without
> needing to be recharged.
>
> This is not exactly the cheapest solution, but I believe it's what I will 
> do
> it I need a clean computer.
>
> Angie
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b.schulz%40sbcglobal.net 



From angie.matney at gmail.com  Sun Jun 14 23:37:30 2009
From: angie.matney at gmail.com (Angie Matney)
Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 19:37:30 -0400
Subject: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
In-Reply-To: <8890DEF2DAEF4AC89881B5750993217B@notebook>
References: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6BF01001@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local><BAY105-DAV3286CB50FCFD6FE77B90ABB410@phx.gbl>	<4a354d03.86c3f10a.0d1b.4f44@mx.google.com>
	<8890DEF2DAEF4AC89881B5750993217B@notebook>
Message-ID: <4a3589b7.86c3f10a.6ae6.03fd@mx.google.com>

Uhm, did you miss the part about wanting a linux machine? (grin)



-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Bryan Schulz
Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 6:51 PM
To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied

Hi,

DUMB!
buy another 2.5" laptop hard drive and a thin sata to usb enclosure.
then use casper to clone your drive to the second hard drive as it is free 
for 30 days.
then uninstall everything you have to in order to comply with the testing 
rules.
after the test, swap the hard drives as the new one will most likely have 
much more capacity and you could then use the original smaller drive in the 
usb enclosure for extra storage.
the new drive and enclosure will cost about $80.

Bryan Schulz
The BEST Solution
www.best-acts.com

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Angie Matney" <angie.matney at gmail.com>
To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 2:18 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied


> For those who are lucky enough to be able to use a laptop on the essays, I
> have a thought. If I am ultimately granted this accommodation, I expect 
> the
> Board will ask me to wipe my computer clean. I believe that, instead of
> gutting my computer (and then worrying that I have inadvertently left
> something on there that shouldn't be there), I am going to buy a second
> netbook for use on the bar. A netbook costs around $400. I might buy one
> just like the one I am using now. I can always sell it at a discount after
> I'm done. (Then again, I might keep it and turn it into a linux
> machine...but that''s a topic of discussion for another list.) Current
> netbooks comply with the technical requirements that Virginia has for
> laptops. Also, the batter ycan last for an entire day of testing without
> needing to be recharged.
>
> This is not exactly the cheapest solution, but I believe it's what I will 
> do
> it I need a clean computer.
>
> Angie
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b.schulz%40sbcglob
al.net 


_______________________________________________
blindlaw mailing list
blindlaw at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
blindlaw:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie.matney%40gma
il.com



From angie.matney at gmail.com  Sun Jun 14 23:45:33 2009
From: angie.matney at gmail.com (Angie Matney)
Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 19:45:33 -0400
Subject: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
In-Reply-To: <8890DEF2DAEF4AC89881B5750993217B@notebook>
References: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6BF01001@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local><BAY105-DAV3286CB50FCFD6FE77B90ABB410@phx.gbl>	<4a354d03.86c3f10a.0d1b.4f44@mx.google.com>
	<8890DEF2DAEF4AC89881B5750993217B@notebook>
Message-ID: <4a358b99.1ac1f10a.0ed9.4fff@mx.google.com>

Also, using my strategy will enable me to take my fully operational computer
with me for use in the evenings. I fully admit this is not the cheapest way
to go, but there is no call for you to be rude about it. Simply don't do as
I have suggested. Post your own ideas and refrain from junior-high-school
dialogue.



-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Bryan Schulz
Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 6:51 PM
To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied

Hi,

DUMB!
buy another 2.5" laptop hard drive and a thin sata to usb enclosure.
then use casper to clone your drive to the second hard drive as it is free 
for 30 days.
then uninstall everything you have to in order to comply with the testing 
rules.
after the test, swap the hard drives as the new one will most likely have 
much more capacity and you could then use the original smaller drive in the 
usb enclosure for extra storage.
the new drive and enclosure will cost about $80.

Bryan Schulz
The BEST Solution
www.best-acts.com

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Angie Matney" <angie.matney at gmail.com>
To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 2:18 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied


> For those who are lucky enough to be able to use a laptop on the essays, I
> have a thought. If I am ultimately granted this accommodation, I expect 
> the
> Board will ask me to wipe my computer clean. I believe that, instead of
> gutting my computer (and then worrying that I have inadvertently left
> something on there that shouldn't be there), I am going to buy a second
> netbook for use on the bar. A netbook costs around $400. I might buy one
> just like the one I am using now. I can always sell it at a discount after
> I'm done. (Then again, I might keep it and turn it into a linux
> machine...but that''s a topic of discussion for another list.) Current
> netbooks comply with the technical requirements that Virginia has for
> laptops. Also, the batter ycan last for an entire day of testing without
> needing to be recharged.
>
> This is not exactly the cheapest solution, but I believe it's what I will 
> do
> it I need a clean computer.
>
> Angie
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b.schulz%40sbcglob
al.net 


_______________________________________________
blindlaw mailing list
blindlaw at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
blindlaw:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie.matney%40gma
il.com



From stevep.deeley at insightbb.com  Mon Jun 15 00:20:22 2009
From: stevep.deeley at insightbb.com (Steve P. Deeley)
Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 20:20:22 -0400
Subject: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
In-Reply-To: <4a358b99.1ac1f10a.0ed9.4fff@mx.google.com>
References: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6BF01001@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local>
	<BAY105-DAV3286CB50FCFD6FE77B90ABB410@phx.gbl>
	<4a354d03.86c3f10a.0d1b.4f44@mx.google.com>
	<8890DEF2DAEF4AC89881B5750993217B@notebook>
	<4a358b99.1ac1f10a.0ed9.4fff@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <FCF7F5B089A244698310E799347833E4@StevePC>

I don't know why he had to send you an e-mail like that one.
Steve
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Angie Matney" <angie.matney at gmail.com>
To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 7:45 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied


> Also, using my strategy will enable me to take my fully operational 
> computer
> with me for use in the evenings. I fully admit this is not the cheapest 
> way
> to go, but there is no call for you to be rude about it. Simply don't do 
> as
> I have suggested. Post your own ideas and refrain from junior-high-school
> dialogue.
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Bryan Schulz
> Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 6:51 PM
> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
>
> Hi,
>
> DUMB!
> buy another 2.5" laptop hard drive and a thin sata to usb enclosure.
> then use casper to clone your drive to the second hard drive as it is free
> for 30 days.
> then uninstall everything you have to in order to comply with the testing
> rules.
> after the test, swap the hard drives as the new one will most likely have
> much more capacity and you could then use the original smaller drive in 
> the
> usb enclosure for extra storage.
> the new drive and enclosure will cost about $80.
>
> Bryan Schulz
> The BEST Solution
> www.best-acts.com
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Angie Matney" <angie.matney at gmail.com>
> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 2:18 PM
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
>
>
>> For those who are lucky enough to be able to use a laptop on the essays, 
>> I
>> have a thought. If I am ultimately granted this accommodation, I expect
>> the
>> Board will ask me to wipe my computer clean. I believe that, instead of
>> gutting my computer (and then worrying that I have inadvertently left
>> something on there that shouldn't be there), I am going to buy a second
>> netbook for use on the bar. A netbook costs around $400. I might buy one
>> just like the one I am using now. I can always sell it at a discount 
>> after
>> I'm done. (Then again, I might keep it and turn it into a linux
>> machine...but that''s a topic of discussion for another list.) Current
>> netbooks comply with the technical requirements that Virginia has for
>> laptops. Also, the batter ycan last for an entire day of testing without
>> needing to be recharged.
>>
>> This is not exactly the cheapest solution, but I believe it's what I will
>> do
>> it I need a clean computer.
>>
>> Angie
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindlaw:
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b.schulz%40sbcglob
> al.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie.matney%40gma
> il.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.69/2176 - Release Date: 06/14/09 
17:54:00



From b.schulz at sbcglobal.net  Mon Jun 15 01:56:50 2009
From: b.schulz at sbcglobal.net (Bryan Schulz)
Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 20:56:50 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
References: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6BF01001@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local><BAY105-DAV3286CB50FCFD6FE77B90ABB410@phx.gbl>	<4a354d03.86c3f10a.0d1b.4f44@mx.google.com><8890DEF2DAEF4AC89881B5750993217B@notebook>
	<4a3589b7.86c3f10a.6ae6.03fd@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <A21938F1ECCD47A9AF456EE103E8B437@notebook>

hi,

no, i saw that idea and don't know why you would want to do things the hard 
way or different/use software probably not used by colleagues or others in 
your field.

Bryan Schulz
The BEST Solution
www.best-acts.com

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Angie Matney" <angie.matney at gmail.com>
To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 6:37 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied


> Uhm, did you miss the part about wanting a linux machine? (grin)
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Bryan Schulz
> Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 6:51 PM
> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
>
> Hi,
>
> DUMB!
> buy another 2.5" laptop hard drive and a thin sata to usb enclosure.
> then use casper to clone your drive to the second hard drive as it is free
> for 30 days.
> then uninstall everything you have to in order to comply with the testing
> rules.
> after the test, swap the hard drives as the new one will most likely have
> much more capacity and you could then use the original smaller drive in 
> the
> usb enclosure for extra storage.
> the new drive and enclosure will cost about $80.
>
> Bryan Schulz
> The BEST Solution
> www.best-acts.com
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Angie Matney" <angie.matney at gmail.com>
> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 2:18 PM
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
>
>
>> For those who are lucky enough to be able to use a laptop on the essays, 
>> I
>> have a thought. If I am ultimately granted this accommodation, I expect
>> the
>> Board will ask me to wipe my computer clean. I believe that, instead of
>> gutting my computer (and then worrying that I have inadvertently left
>> something on there that shouldn't be there), I am going to buy a second
>> netbook for use on the bar. A netbook costs around $400. I might buy one
>> just like the one I am using now. I can always sell it at a discount 
>> after
>> I'm done. (Then again, I might keep it and turn it into a linux
>> machine...but that''s a topic of discussion for another list.) Current
>> netbooks comply with the technical requirements that Virginia has for
>> laptops. Also, the batter ycan last for an entire day of testing without
>> needing to be recharged.
>>
>> This is not exactly the cheapest solution, but I believe it's what I will
>> do
>> it I need a clean computer.
>>
>> Angie
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindlaw:
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b.schulz%40sbcglob
> al.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie.matney%40gma
> il.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b.schulz%40sbcglobal.net 



From b.schulz at sbcglobal.net  Mon Jun 15 02:01:25 2009
From: b.schulz at sbcglobal.net (Bryan Schulz)
Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 21:01:25 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
References: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6BF01001@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local><BAY105-DAV3286CB50FCFD6FE77B90ABB410@phx.gbl>	<4a354d03.86c3f10a.0d1b.4f44@mx.google.com><8890DEF2DAEF4AC89881B5750993217B@notebook>
	<4a358b99.1ac1f10a.0ed9.4fff@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <6C964A8115B9485DB4FDF54D0AF5E42C@notebook>

hi,

i guess a one word opinion to you is long winded rude high school banter.
it sounded like you wanted a cheap solution and i offered one.

Bryan Schulz
The BEST Solution
www.best-acts.com

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Angie Matney" <angie.matney at gmail.com>
To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 6:45 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied


> Also, using my strategy will enable me to take my fully operational 
> computer
> with me for use in the evenings. I fully admit this is not the cheapest 
> way
> to go, but there is no call for you to be rude about it. Simply don't do 
> as
> I have suggested. Post your own ideas and refrain from junior-high-school
> dialogue.
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Bryan Schulz
> Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 6:51 PM
> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
>
> Hi,
>
> DUMB!
> buy another 2.5" laptop hard drive and a thin sata to usb enclosure.
> then use casper to clone your drive to the second hard drive as it is free
> for 30 days.
> then uninstall everything you have to in order to comply with the testing
> rules.
> after the test, swap the hard drives as the new one will most likely have
> much more capacity and you could then use the original smaller drive in 
> the
> usb enclosure for extra storage.
> the new drive and enclosure will cost about $80.
>
> Bryan Schulz
> The BEST Solution
> www.best-acts.com
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Angie Matney" <angie.matney at gmail.com>
> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 2:18 PM
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
>
>
>> For those who are lucky enough to be able to use a laptop on the essays, 
>> I
>> have a thought. If I am ultimately granted this accommodation, I expect
>> the
>> Board will ask me to wipe my computer clean. I believe that, instead of
>> gutting my computer (and then worrying that I have inadvertently left
>> something on there that shouldn't be there), I am going to buy a second
>> netbook for use on the bar. A netbook costs around $400. I might buy one
>> just like the one I am using now. I can always sell it at a discount 
>> after
>> I'm done. (Then again, I might keep it and turn it into a linux
>> machine...but that''s a topic of discussion for another list.) Current
>> netbooks comply with the technical requirements that Virginia has for
>> laptops. Also, the batter ycan last for an entire day of testing without
>> needing to be recharged.
>>
>> This is not exactly the cheapest solution, but I believe it's what I will
>> do
>> it I need a clean computer.
>>
>> Angie
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindlaw:
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b.schulz%40sbcglob
> al.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie.matney%40gma
> il.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b.schulz%40sbcglobal.net 



From rjs59 at hotmail.com  Mon Jun 15 02:28:04 2009
From: rjs59 at hotmail.com (RJ Sandefur)
Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 22:28:04 -0400
Subject: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
References: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6BF01001@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local><BAY105-DAV3286CB50FCFD6FE77B90ABB410@phx.gbl>	<4a354d03.86c3f10a.0d1b.4f44@mx.google.com><8890DEF2DAEF4AC89881B5750993217B@notebook><4a3589b7.86c3f10a.6ae6.03fd@mx.google.com>
	<A21938F1ECCD47A9AF456EE103E8B437@notebook>
Message-ID: <BAY106-DAV13B0DDDF4370A8DCAB4791A83E0@phx.gbl>

Bryan, What is your take on web sights such  as twitter, which use capcha? 
Has any one with within the blindness comunity tryed contacting the 
developers of twitter concerning the needs and concerns of the blind 
comunity concerning this issue? RJ
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Bryan Schulz" <b.schulz at sbcglobal.net>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 9:56 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied


> hi,
>
> no, i saw that idea and don't know why you would want to do things the 
> hard way or different/use software probably not used by colleagues or 
> others in your field.
>
> Bryan Schulz
> The BEST Solution
> www.best-acts.com
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Angie Matney" <angie.matney at gmail.com>
> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 6:37 PM
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
>
>
>> Uhm, did you miss the part about wanting a linux machine? (grin)
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf Of Bryan Schulz
>> Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 6:51 PM
>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> DUMB!
>> buy another 2.5" laptop hard drive and a thin sata to usb enclosure.
>> then use casper to clone your drive to the second hard drive as it is 
>> free
>> for 30 days.
>> then uninstall everything you have to in order to comply with the testing
>> rules.
>> after the test, swap the hard drives as the new one will most likely have
>> much more capacity and you could then use the original smaller drive in 
>> the
>> usb enclosure for extra storage.
>> the new drive and enclosure will cost about $80.
>>
>> Bryan Schulz
>> The BEST Solution
>> www.best-acts.com
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Angie Matney" <angie.matney at gmail.com>
>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 2:18 PM
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
>>
>>
>>> For those who are lucky enough to be able to use a laptop on the essays, 
>>> I
>>> have a thought. If I am ultimately granted this accommodation, I expect
>>> the
>>> Board will ask me to wipe my computer clean. I believe that, instead of
>>> gutting my computer (and then worrying that I have inadvertently left
>>> something on there that shouldn't be there), I am going to buy a second
>>> netbook for use on the bar. A netbook costs around $400. I might buy one
>>> just like the one I am using now. I can always sell it at a discount 
>>> after
>>> I'm done. (Then again, I might keep it and turn it into a linux
>>> machine...but that''s a topic of discussion for another list.) Current
>>> netbooks comply with the technical requirements that Virginia has for
>>> laptops. Also, the batter ycan last for an entire day of testing without
>>> needing to be recharged.
>>>
>>> This is not exactly the cheapest solution, but I believe it's what I 
>>> will
>>> do
>>> it I need a clean computer.
>>>
>>> Angie
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> blindlaw:
>>>
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b.schulz%40sbcglob
>> al.net
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindlaw:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie.matney%40gma
>> il.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> blindlaw:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b.schulz%40sbcglobal.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rjs59%40hotmail.com
> 



From b.schulz at sbcglobal.net  Mon Jun 15 02:39:29 2009
From: b.schulz at sbcglobal.net (Bryan Schulz)
Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 21:39:29 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
References: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6BF01001@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local><BAY105-DAV3286CB50FCFD6FE77B90ABB410@phx.gbl>	<4a354d03.86c3f10a.0d1b.4f44@mx.google.com><8890DEF2DAEF4AC89881B5750993217B@notebook><4a3589b7.86c3f10a.6ae6.03fd@mx.google.com><A21938F1ECCD47A9AF456EE103E8B437@notebook>
	<BAY106-DAV13B0DDDF4370A8DCAB4791A83E0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <B47E9B4F3861487EADA74CAA9C895E06@notebook>

hi,

i don't get the big idea about all these social sites but
a good work around for us is to use firefox and the captia buster plugin.

Bryan Schulz
The BEST Solution
www.best-acts.com

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "RJ Sandefur" <rjs59 at hotmail.com>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 9:28 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied


> Bryan, What is your take on web sights such  as twitter, which use capcha? 
> Has any one with within the blindness comunity tryed contacting the 
> developers of twitter concerning the needs and concerns of the blind 
> comunity concerning this issue? RJ
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Bryan Schulz" <b.schulz at sbcglobal.net>
> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 9:56 PM
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
>
>
>> hi,
>>
>> no, i saw that idea and don't know why you would want to do things the 
>> hard way or different/use software probably not used by colleagues or 
>> others in your field.
>>
>> Bryan Schulz
>> The BEST Solution
>> www.best-acts.com
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Angie Matney" <angie.matney at gmail.com>
>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 6:37 PM
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
>>
>>
>>> Uhm, did you miss the part about wanting a linux machine? (grin)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] 
>>> On
>>> Behalf Of Bryan Schulz
>>> Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 6:51 PM
>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> DUMB!
>>> buy another 2.5" laptop hard drive and a thin sata to usb enclosure.
>>> then use casper to clone your drive to the second hard drive as it is 
>>> free
>>> for 30 days.
>>> then uninstall everything you have to in order to comply with the 
>>> testing
>>> rules.
>>> after the test, swap the hard drives as the new one will most likely 
>>> have
>>> much more capacity and you could then use the original smaller drive in 
>>> the
>>> usb enclosure for extra storage.
>>> the new drive and enclosure will cost about $80.
>>>
>>> Bryan Schulz
>>> The BEST Solution
>>> www.best-acts.com
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: "Angie Matney" <angie.matney at gmail.com>
>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 2:18 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
>>>
>>>
>>>> For those who are lucky enough to be able to use a laptop on the 
>>>> essays, I
>>>> have a thought. If I am ultimately granted this accommodation, I expect
>>>> the
>>>> Board will ask me to wipe my computer clean. I believe that, instead of
>>>> gutting my computer (and then worrying that I have inadvertently left
>>>> something on there that shouldn't be there), I am going to buy a second
>>>> netbook for use on the bar. A netbook costs around $400. I might buy 
>>>> one
>>>> just like the one I am using now. I can always sell it at a discount 
>>>> after
>>>> I'm done. (Then again, I might keep it and turn it into a linux
>>>> machine...but that''s a topic of discussion for another list.) Current
>>>> netbooks comply with the technical requirements that Virginia has for
>>>> laptops. Also, the batter ycan last for an entire day of testing 
>>>> without
>>>> needing to be recharged.
>>>>
>>>> This is not exactly the cheapest solution, but I believe it's what I 
>>>> will
>>>> do
>>>> it I need a clean computer.
>>>>
>>>> Angie
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b.schulz%40sbcglob
>>> al.net
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> blindlaw:
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie.matney%40gma
>>> il.com
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>>> blindlaw:
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b.schulz%40sbcglobal.net
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> blindlaw:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rjs59%40hotmail.com
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b.schulz%40sbcglobal.net 



From timandvickie at hotmail.com  Mon Jun 15 02:56:32 2009
From: timandvickie at hotmail.com (Tim Shaw)
Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 02:56:32 +0000
Subject: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
In-Reply-To: <A21938F1ECCD47A9AF456EE103E8B437@notebook>
References: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6BF01001@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local><BAY105-DAV3286CB50FCFD6FE77B90ABB410@phx.gbl>
	<4a354d03.86c3f10a.0d1b.4f44@mx.google.com><8890DEF2DAEF4AC89881B5750993217B@notebook>
	<4a3589b7.86c3f10a.6ae6.03fd@mx.google.com> 
	<A21938F1ECCD47A9AF456EE103E8B437@notebook>
Message-ID: <BAY139-W118308DEE3C7EE78559119CF3E0@phx.gbl>


I didnt have to wipe my hard drive
 
> From: b.schulz at sbcglobal.net
> To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 20:56:50 -0500
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
> 
> hi,
> 
> no, i saw that idea and don't know why you would want to do things the hard 
> way or different/use software probably not used by colleagues or others in 
> your field.
> 
> Bryan Schulz
> The BEST Solution
> www.best-acts.com
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Angie Matney" <angie.matney at gmail.com>
> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 6:37 PM
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
> 
> 
> > Uhm, did you miss the part about wanting a linux machine? (grin)
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> > Behalf Of Bryan Schulz
> > Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 6:51 PM
> > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
> > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > DUMB!
> > buy another 2.5" laptop hard drive and a thin sata to usb enclosure.
> > then use casper to clone your drive to the second hard drive as it is free
> > for 30 days.
> > then uninstall everything you have to in order to comply with the testing
> > rules.
> > after the test, swap the hard drives as the new one will most likely have
> > much more capacity and you could then use the original smaller drive in 
> > the
> > usb enclosure for extra storage.
> > the new drive and enclosure will cost about $80.
> >
> > Bryan Schulz
> > The BEST Solution
> > www.best-acts.com
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > From: "Angie Matney" <angie.matney at gmail.com>
> > To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> > Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 2:18 PM
> > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
> >
> >
> >> For those who are lucky enough to be able to use a laptop on the essays, 
> >> I
> >> have a thought. If I am ultimately granted this accommodation, I expect
> >> the
> >> Board will ask me to wipe my computer clean. I believe that, instead of
> >> gutting my computer (and then worrying that I have inadvertently left
> >> something on there that shouldn't be there), I am going to buy a second
> >> netbook for use on the bar. A netbook costs around $400. I might buy one
> >> just like the one I am using now. I can always sell it at a discount 
> >> after
> >> I'm done. (Then again, I might keep it and turn it into a linux
> >> machine...but that''s a topic of discussion for another list.) Current
> >> netbooks comply with the technical requirements that Virginia has for
> >> laptops. Also, the batter ycan last for an entire day of testing without
> >> needing to be recharged.
> >>
> >> This is not exactly the cheapest solution, but I believe it's what I will
> >> do
> >> it I need a clean computer.
> >>
> >> Angie
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> blindlaw mailing list
> >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >> blindlaw:
> >>
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b.schulz%40sbcglob
> > al.net
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > blindlaw mailing list
> > blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > blindlaw:
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie.matney%40gma
> > il.com
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > blindlaw mailing list
> > blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> > blindlaw:
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b.schulz%40sbcglobal.net 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/timandvickie%40hotmail.com

_________________________________________________________________
Windows Live™: Keep your life in sync. 
http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_BR_life_in_synch_062009

From cdborne at gmail.com  Mon Jun 15 04:40:02 2009
From: cdborne at gmail.com (Craig Borne)
Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 00:40:02 -0400
Subject: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
In-Reply-To: <8890DEF2DAEF4AC89881B5750993217B@notebook>
References: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6BF01001@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local><BAY105-DAV3286CB50FCFD6FE77B90ABB410@phx.gbl><4a354d03.86c3f10a.0d1b.4f44@mx.google.com>
	<8890DEF2DAEF4AC89881B5750993217B@notebook>
Message-ID: <003401c9ed73$597ce8b0$0401a8c0@computer>

Bryan,

You really need to learn a little tact.  She was looking for a work-around
to an accommodation issue, not a tech solution to what she needed.

Frankly, I am getting really tired of the non-attorney participants on this
list chiming in on law (or bar exam) issues.  Is this or is it not a list
for blind lawyers and law related to blind related issues?  If so, why are
the attorneys (or law students) on this list constantly assaulted with
flaming comments that neither answer legal questions nor promote the
practice of law with blind attorneys?  Over the past few weeks, I have
exercised my delete key more often than in the past due to the high email
traffic related neither to the practice of law nor to legal issues related
to blind plaintiffs/defendants.

I respectfully ask that this loosy-goosy monitoring of this list serve be
tightened.  I am frankly tired of receiving emails containing flames from
non-attorneys discussing non-legal topics.  It is a waste of time and an
annoyance.  I, as a practicing attorney, am less inclined to post a query to
this list because I don't have the time or patience to deal with the replies
coming from judgmental, non-legal participants in this list.

Either blind attorneys/law students have a forum on blindnet, or they do
not.

Craig


Craig Borne
Baltimore, Maryland
"A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial
appearance of being right, and raises at first a formidable outcry in
defense of custom."  --Thomas Paine, Common Sense

-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Bryan Schulz
Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 6:51 PM
To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied

Hi,

DUMB!
buy another 2.5" laptop hard drive and a thin sata to usb enclosure.
then use casper to clone your drive to the second hard drive as it is free 
for 30 days.
then uninstall everything you have to in order to comply with the testing 
rules.
after the test, swap the hard drives as the new one will most likely have 
much more capacity and you could then use the original smaller drive in the 
usb enclosure for extra storage.
the new drive and enclosure will cost about $80.

Bryan Schulz
The BEST Solution
www.best-acts.com

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Angie Matney" <angie.matney at gmail.com>
To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 2:18 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied


> For those who are lucky enough to be able to use a laptop on the essays, I
> have a thought. If I am ultimately granted this accommodation, I expect 
> the
> Board will ask me to wipe my computer clean. I believe that, instead of
> gutting my computer (and then worrying that I have inadvertently left
> something on there that shouldn't be there), I am going to buy a second
> netbook for use on the bar. A netbook costs around $400. I might buy one
> just like the one I am using now. I can always sell it at a discount after
> I'm done. (Then again, I might keep it and turn it into a linux
> machine...but that''s a topic of discussion for another list.) Current
> netbooks comply with the technical requirements that Virginia has for
> laptops. Also, the batter ycan last for an entire day of testing without
> needing to be recharged.
>
> This is not exactly the cheapest solution, but I believe it's what I will 
> do
> it I need a clean computer.
>
> Angie
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b.schulz%40sbcglob
al.net 


_______________________________________________
blindlaw mailing list
blindlaw at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
blindlaw:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdborne%40gmail.co
m



From cdborne at gmail.com  Mon Jun 15 04:48:54 2009
From: cdborne at gmail.com (Craig Borne)
Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 00:48:54 -0400
Subject: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
In-Reply-To: <4a32ea72.1ac1f10a.1f2a.648a@mx.google.com>
References: <965679953DA54B9B8EBFBC94FFAE3453@bentar802wznlv><FC50B49ED94B8A45A9AA3CE6D096CAED1E773E@2K3FS1.screnci.local>
	<4a32ea72.1ac1f10a.1f2a.648a@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <003501c9ed74$96b98660$0401a8c0@computer>

Angie,

 

I used my laptop for the Maryland essay portion of the bar exam.  I was
given both the question and any abstracts on disk, and I was able to type my
answers on the computer.  I did not use any special computer software
required by the board, and my answers were printed out to submit.  I was
responsible for the laptop, disk drive (it was a floppy disk), and the
printer.

 

The MBE was read to me and my answers were oral.  I was given the name and
number of the reader prior to the exam, so I could speak with the reader
first.

 

Craig

 

 

 

Craig Borne

Baltimore, Maryland

"A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial
appearance of being right, and raises at first a formidable outcry in
defense of custom."  --Thomas Paine, Common Sense

  _____  

From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Angie Matney
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 7:53 PM
To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'
Subject: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied

 

Hello,

 

I asked for and was granted a Braille MBE and a Braille version of the ssay
questions. My request to write my answers to the essays was denied. I am
supposed to dictate them to a court reporter. The documentation I received
from the VA bar examiners is unclear as to whether or not I will first be
able to prepare my answers in Braille and then dictate them (it specifically
says I can do this for the MBE, but not the essays), or whether I have to
simply dictate my answers. I have serious concerns about my ability to
perform effectively on the exam if it is the latter. I have never taken an
essay test via dictation--I mentioned this in my accommodations request. I
explained why the process was different for the MBE and the essay portion of
the bar, but apparently my explanation was not sufficient, not understood,
or not accepted.

 

Has anyone been granted the option to use a laptop during the state-specific
portion of the Bar exam? It is my understanding that this is fairly common.

 

Virginia does have a program whereby any person taking the exam can register
to take it via laptop, but I have concerns about the accessibility of the
software they use, which disables all but some basic word-processing
functions of the computer. The software is called Exam4, and the maker is
Extegrity. Has anyone had experience with this software and a screen reader?

 

Thanks,

 

Angie

 

 

 

 

 

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From angie.matney at gmail.com  Mon Jun 15 05:11:10 2009
From: angie.matney at gmail.com (Angie Matney)
Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 01:11:10 -0400
Subject: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
In-Reply-To: <003501c9ed74$96b98660$0401a8c0@computer>
References: <965679953DA54B9B8EBFBC94FFAE3453@bentar802wznlv><FC50B49ED94B8A45A9AA3CE6D096CAED1E773E@2K3FS1.screnci.local>	<4a32ea72.1ac1f10a.1f2a.648a@mx.google.com>
	<003501c9ed74$96b98660$0401a8c0@computer>
Message-ID: <4a35d7ea.47c2f10a.532d.14ff@mx.google.com>

Hello craig,

 

Thanks for this info. So far, I know of six states where people have been
granted this accommodation. I am going to call the VA Board tomorrow to
discuss the situation. 

 

Angie

 

 

 

From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Craig Borne
Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 12:49 AM
To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied

 

Angie,

 

I used my laptop for the Maryland essay portion of the bar exam.  I was
given both the question and any abstracts on disk, and I was able to type my
answers on the computer.  I did not use any special computer software
required by the board, and my answers were printed out to submit.  I was
responsible for the laptop, disk drive (it was a floppy disk), and the
printer.

 

The MBE was read to me and my answers were oral.  I was given the name and
number of the reader prior to the exam, so I could speak with the reader
first.

 

Craig

 

 

 

Craig Borne

Baltimore, Maryland

"A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial
appearance of being right, and raises at first a formidable outcry in
defense of custom."  --Thomas Paine, Common Sense

  _____  

From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Angie Matney
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 7:53 PM
To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'
Subject: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied

 

Hello,

 

I asked for and was granted a Braille MBE and a Braille version of the ssay
questions. My request to write my answers to the essays was denied. I am
supposed to dictate them to a court reporter. The documentation I received
from the VA bar examiners is unclear as to whether or not I will first be
able to prepare my answers in Braille and then dictate them (it specifically
says I can do this for the MBE, but not the essays), or whether I have to
simply dictate my answers. I have serious concerns about my ability to
perform effectively on the exam if it is the latter. I have never taken an
essay test via dictation--I mentioned this in my accommodations request. I
explained why the process was different for the MBE and the essay portion of
the bar, but apparently my explanation was not sufficient, not understood,
or not accepted.

 

Has anyone been granted the option to use a laptop during the state-specific
portion of the Bar exam? It is my understanding that this is fairly common.

 

Virginia does have a program whereby any person taking the exam can register
to take it via laptop, but I have concerns about the accessibility of the
software they use, which disables all but some basic word-processing
functions of the computer. The software is called Exam4, and the maker is
Extegrity. Has anyone had experience with this software and a screen reader?

 

Thanks,

 

Angie

 

 

 

 

 

-------------- next part --------------
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From b.schulz at sbcglobal.net  Mon Jun 15 05:13:15 2009
From: b.schulz at sbcglobal.net (Bryan Schulz)
Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 00:13:15 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
References: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6BF01001@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local><BAY105-DAV3286CB50FCFD6FE77B90ABB410@phx.gbl><4a354d03.86c3f10a.0d1b.4f44@mx.google.com><8890DEF2DAEF4AC89881B5750993217B@notebook>
	<003401c9ed73$597ce8b0$0401a8c0@computer>
Message-ID: <648DEB12A4E24197B6F89FF803E84BF6@notebook>

bud,

i gave a solution to her problem that would have saved her a good $300.
she can do what ever she wants, get it solved or continue to battle the 
testing official.
if you don't like my tact or attitude, that's probably mild to the courtroom 
and you'll be shark bait for the opposition.

Bryan Schulz
The BEST Solution
www.best-acts.com

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Craig Borne" <cdborne at gmail.com>
To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 11:40 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied


> Bryan,
>
> You really need to learn a little tact.  She was looking for a work-around
> to an accommodation issue, not a tech solution to what she needed.
>
> Frankly, I am getting really tired of the non-attorney participants on 
> this
> list chiming in on law (or bar exam) issues.  Is this or is it not a list
> for blind lawyers and law related to blind related issues?  If so, why are
> the attorneys (or law students) on this list constantly assaulted with
> flaming comments that neither answer legal questions nor promote the
> practice of law with blind attorneys?  Over the past few weeks, I have
> exercised my delete key more often than in the past due to the high email
> traffic related neither to the practice of law nor to legal issues related
> to blind plaintiffs/defendants.
>
> I respectfully ask that this loosy-goosy monitoring of this list serve be
> tightened.  I am frankly tired of receiving emails containing flames from
> non-attorneys discussing non-legal topics.  It is a waste of time and an
> annoyance.  I, as a practicing attorney, am less inclined to post a query 
> to
> this list because I don't have the time or patience to deal with the 
> replies
> coming from judgmental, non-legal participants in this list.
>
> Either blind attorneys/law students have a forum on blindnet, or they do
> not.
>
> Craig
>
>
> Craig Borne
> Baltimore, Maryland
> "A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial
> appearance of being right, and raises at first a formidable outcry in
> defense of custom."  --Thomas Paine, Common Sense
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Bryan Schulz
> Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 6:51 PM
> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
>
> Hi,
>
> DUMB!
> buy another 2.5" laptop hard drive and a thin sata to usb enclosure.
> then use casper to clone your drive to the second hard drive as it is free
> for 30 days.
> then uninstall everything you have to in order to comply with the testing
> rules.
> after the test, swap the hard drives as the new one will most likely have
> much more capacity and you could then use the original smaller drive in 
> the
> usb enclosure for extra storage.
> the new drive and enclosure will cost about $80.
>
> Bryan Schulz
> The BEST Solution
> www.best-acts.com
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Angie Matney" <angie.matney at gmail.com>
> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 2:18 PM
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
>
>
>> For those who are lucky enough to be able to use a laptop on the essays, 
>> I
>> have a thought. If I am ultimately granted this accommodation, I expect
>> the
>> Board will ask me to wipe my computer clean. I believe that, instead of
>> gutting my computer (and then worrying that I have inadvertently left
>> something on there that shouldn't be there), I am going to buy a second
>> netbook for use on the bar. A netbook costs around $400. I might buy one
>> just like the one I am using now. I can always sell it at a discount 
>> after
>> I'm done. (Then again, I might keep it and turn it into a linux
>> machine...but that''s a topic of discussion for another list.) Current
>> netbooks comply with the technical requirements that Virginia has for
>> laptops. Also, the batter ycan last for an entire day of testing without
>> needing to be recharged.
>>
>> This is not exactly the cheapest solution, but I believe it's what I will
>> do
>> it I need a clean computer.
>>
>> Angie
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindlaw:
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b.schulz%40sbcglob
> al.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdborne%40gmail.co
> m
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b.schulz%40sbcglobal.net 



From cdborne at gmail.com  Mon Jun 15 05:31:04 2009
From: cdborne at gmail.com (Craig Borne)
Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 01:31:04 -0400
Subject: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
In-Reply-To: <4a35d7ea.47c2f10a.532d.14ff@mx.google.com>
References: <965679953DA54B9B8EBFBC94FFAE3453@bentar802wznlv><FC50B49ED94B8A45A9AA3CE6D096CAED1E773E@2K3FS1.screnci.local>	<4a32ea72.1ac1f10a.1f2a.648a@mx.google.com><003501c9ed74$96b98660$0401a8c0@computer>
	<4a35d7ea.47c2f10a.532d.14ff@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <004401c9ed7a$7a419080$0401a8c0@computer>

You are welcome, Angie.  Let me know if I can help.

Craig

 

Craig Borne

Baltimore, Maryland

"A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial
appearance of being right, and raises at first a formidable outcry in
defense of custom."  --Thomas Paine, Common Sense

  _____  

From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Angie Matney
Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 1:11 AM
To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied

 

Hello craig,

 

Thanks for this info. So far, I know of six states where people have been
granted this accommodation. I am going to call the VA Board tomorrow to
discuss the situation. 

 

Angie

 

 

 

From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Craig Borne
Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 12:49 AM
To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied

 

Angie,

 

I used my laptop for the Maryland essay portion of the bar exam.  I was
given both the question and any abstracts on disk, and I was able to type my
answers on the computer.  I did not use any special computer software
required by the board, and my answers were printed out to submit.  I was
responsible for the laptop, disk drive (it was a floppy disk), and the
printer.

 

The MBE was read to me and my answers were oral.  I was given the name and
number of the reader prior to the exam, so I could speak with the reader
first.

 

Craig

 

 

 

Craig Borne

Baltimore, Maryland

"A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial
appearance of being right, and raises at first a formidable outcry in
defense of custom."  --Thomas Paine, Common Sense

  _____  

From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Angie Matney
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 7:53 PM
To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'
Subject: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied

 

Hello,

 

I asked for and was granted a Braille MBE and a Braille version of the ssay
questions. My request to write my answers to the essays was denied. I am
supposed to dictate them to a court reporter. The documentation I received
from the VA bar examiners is unclear as to whether or not I will first be
able to prepare my answers in Braille and then dictate them (it specifically
says I can do this for the MBE, but not the essays), or whether I have to
simply dictate my answers. I have serious concerns about my ability to
perform effectively on the exam if it is the latter. I have never taken an
essay test via dictation--I mentioned this in my accommodations request. I
explained why the process was different for the MBE and the essay portion of
the bar, but apparently my explanation was not sufficient, not understood,
or not accepted.

 

Has anyone been granted the option to use a laptop during the state-specific
portion of the Bar exam? It is my understanding that this is fairly common.

 

Virginia does have a program whereby any person taking the exam can register
to take it via laptop, but I have concerns about the accessibility of the
software they use, which disables all but some basic word-processing
functions of the computer. The software is called Exam4, and the maker is
Extegrity. Has anyone had experience with this software and a screen reader?

 

Thanks,

 

Angie

 

 

 

 

 

-------------- next part --------------
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From cdborne at gmail.com  Mon Jun 15 05:59:56 2009
From: cdborne at gmail.com (Craig Borne)
Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 01:59:56 -0400
Subject: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
In-Reply-To: <648DEB12A4E24197B6F89FF803E84BF6@notebook>
References: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6BF01001@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local><BAY105-DAV3286CB50FCFD6FE77B90ABB410@phx.gbl><4a354d03.86c3f10a.0d1b.4f44@mx.google.com><8890DEF2DAEF4AC89881B5750993217B@notebook><003401c9ed73$597ce8b0$0401a8c0@computer>
	<648DEB12A4E24197B6F89FF803E84BF6@notebook>
Message-ID: <004801c9ed7e$82fb2890$0401a8c0@computer>

First of all, my name is not "Bud."

Second, your tech strategy did not take into account what she proposed to do
with the computer after its use.

Third, I appreciate your opinion as to my electronic and computer needs, but
I frankly don't see where you get off telling me what my courtroom demeanor
will or will not be.  If you stick to your expertise, you may do well.
However, telling someone that they are "dumb" for proposing a solution is
tactless at the least and arrogant at best.  I certainly hope you don't
treat your paying clients the same way you treat your "colleagues."

I have had comments with you in the past, and frankly, I don't see how you
keep clients if you address them in the same rude manner that you address
fello Federationists.  

Craig



Craig Borne
Baltimore, Maryland
"A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial
appearance of being right, and raises at first a formidable outcry in
defense of custom."  --Thomas Paine, Common Sense

-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Bryan Schulz
Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 1:13 AM
To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied

bud,

i gave a solution to her problem that would have saved her a good $300.
she can do what ever she wants, get it solved or continue to battle the 
testing official.
if you don't like my tact or attitude, that's probably mild to the courtroom

and you'll be shark bait for the opposition.

Bryan Schulz
The BEST Solution
www.best-acts.com

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Craig Borne" <cdborne at gmail.com>
To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 11:40 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied


> Bryan,
>
> You really need to learn a little tact.  She was looking for a work-around
> to an accommodation issue, not a tech solution to what she needed.
>
> Frankly, I am getting really tired of the non-attorney participants on 
> this
> list chiming in on law (or bar exam) issues.  Is this or is it not a list
> for blind lawyers and law related to blind related issues?  If so, why are
> the attorneys (or law students) on this list constantly assaulted with
> flaming comments that neither answer legal questions nor promote the
> practice of law with blind attorneys?  Over the past few weeks, I have
> exercised my delete key more often than in the past due to the high email
> traffic related neither to the practice of law nor to legal issues related
> to blind plaintiffs/defendants.
>
> I respectfully ask that this loosy-goosy monitoring of this list serve be
> tightened.  I am frankly tired of receiving emails containing flames from
> non-attorneys discussing non-legal topics.  It is a waste of time and an
> annoyance.  I, as a practicing attorney, am less inclined to post a query 
> to
> this list because I don't have the time or patience to deal with the 
> replies
> coming from judgmental, non-legal participants in this list.
>
> Either blind attorneys/law students have a forum on blindnet, or they do
> not.
>
> Craig
>
>
> Craig Borne
> Baltimore, Maryland
> "A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial
> appearance of being right, and raises at first a formidable outcry in
> defense of custom."  --Thomas Paine, Common Sense
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Bryan Schulz
> Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 6:51 PM
> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
>
> Hi,
>
> DUMB!
> buy another 2.5" laptop hard drive and a thin sata to usb enclosure.
> then use casper to clone your drive to the second hard drive as it is free
> for 30 days.
> then uninstall everything you have to in order to comply with the testing
> rules.
> after the test, swap the hard drives as the new one will most likely have
> much more capacity and you could then use the original smaller drive in 
> the
> usb enclosure for extra storage.
> the new drive and enclosure will cost about $80.
>
> Bryan Schulz
> The BEST Solution
> www.best-acts.com
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Angie Matney" <angie.matney at gmail.com>
> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 2:18 PM
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
>
>
>> For those who are lucky enough to be able to use a laptop on the essays, 
>> I
>> have a thought. If I am ultimately granted this accommodation, I expect
>> the
>> Board will ask me to wipe my computer clean. I believe that, instead of
>> gutting my computer (and then worrying that I have inadvertently left
>> something on there that shouldn't be there), I am going to buy a second
>> netbook for use on the bar. A netbook costs around $400. I might buy one
>> just like the one I am using now. I can always sell it at a discount 
>> after
>> I'm done. (Then again, I might keep it and turn it into a linux
>> machine...but that''s a topic of discussion for another list.) Current
>> netbooks comply with the technical requirements that Virginia has for
>> laptops. Also, the batter ycan last for an entire day of testing without
>> needing to be recharged.
>>
>> This is not exactly the cheapest solution, but I believe it's what I will
>> do
>> it I need a clean computer.
>>
>> Angie
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindlaw:
>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b.schulz%40sbcglob
> al.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindlaw:
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdborne%40gmail.co
> m
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b.schulz%40sbcglob
al.net 


_______________________________________________
blindlaw mailing list
blindlaw at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
blindlaw:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdborne%40gmail.co
m



From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net  Mon Jun 15 06:10:58 2009
From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net)
Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 23:10:58 -0700
Subject: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
In-Reply-To: <BAY106-DAV13B0DDDF4370A8DCAB4791A83E0@phx.gbl>
References: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6BF01001@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local><BAY105-DAV3286CB50FCFD6FE77B90ABB410@phx.gbl>	<4a354d03.86c3f10a.0d1b.4f44@mx.google.com><8890DEF2DAEF4AC89881B5750993217B@notebook><4a3589b7.86c3f10a.6ae6.03fd@mx.google.com><A21938F1ECCD47A9AF456EE103E8B437@notebook>
	<BAY106-DAV13B0DDDF4370A8DCAB4791A83E0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <C7153CBB404E4C09B757517522A62EFB@spike>

This is a definite problem for the blind using many web sites. Recently, we 
have had a thread going on about this topic on the California NFB list.
It defintely needs addressing on a large scale basis.
Chuck
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "RJ Sandefur" <rjs59 at hotmail.com>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 7:28 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied


> Bryan, What is your take on web sights such  as twitter, which use capcha? 
> Has any one with within the blindness comunity tryed contacting the 
> developers of twitter concerning the needs and concerns of the blind 
> comunity concerning this issue? RJ
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Bryan Schulz" <b.schulz at sbcglobal.net>
> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 9:56 PM
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
>
>
>> hi,
>>
>> no, i saw that idea and don't know why you would want to do things the 
>> hard way or different/use software probably not used by colleagues or 
>> others in your field.
>>
>> Bryan Schulz
>> The BEST Solution
>> www.best-acts.com
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Angie Matney" <angie.matney at gmail.com>
>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 6:37 PM
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
>>
>>
>>> Uhm, did you miss the part about wanting a linux machine? (grin)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] 
>>> On
>>> Behalf Of Bryan Schulz
>>> Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 6:51 PM
>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> DUMB!
>>> buy another 2.5" laptop hard drive and a thin sata to usb enclosure.
>>> then use casper to clone your drive to the second hard drive as it is 
>>> free
>>> for 30 days.
>>> then uninstall everything you have to in order to comply with the 
>>> testing
>>> rules.
>>> after the test, swap the hard drives as the new one will most likely 
>>> have
>>> much more capacity and you could then use the original smaller drive in 
>>> the
>>> usb enclosure for extra storage.
>>> the new drive and enclosure will cost about $80.
>>>
>>> Bryan Schulz
>>> The BEST Solution
>>> www.best-acts.com
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: "Angie Matney" <angie.matney at gmail.com>
>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 2:18 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
>>>
>>>
>>>> For those who are lucky enough to be able to use a laptop on the 
>>>> essays, I
>>>> have a thought. If I am ultimately granted this accommodation, I expect
>>>> the
>>>> Board will ask me to wipe my computer clean. I believe that, instead of
>>>> gutting my computer (and then worrying that I have inadvertently left
>>>> something on there that shouldn't be there), I am going to buy a second
>>>> netbook for use on the bar. A netbook costs around $400. I might buy 
>>>> one
>>>> just like the one I am using now. I can always sell it at a discount 
>>>> after
>>>> I'm done. (Then again, I might keep it and turn it into a linux
>>>> machine...but that''s a topic of discussion for another list.) Current
>>>> netbooks comply with the technical requirements that Virginia has for
>>>> laptops. Also, the batter ycan last for an entire day of testing 
>>>> without
>>>> needing to be recharged.
>>>>
>>>> This is not exactly the cheapest solution, but I believe it's what I 
>>>> will
>>>> do
>>>> it I need a clean computer.
>>>>
>>>> Angie
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b.schulz%40sbcglob
>>> al.net
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> blindlaw:
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie.matney%40gma
>>> il.com
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>>> blindlaw:
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b.schulz%40sbcglobal.net
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> blindlaw:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rjs59%40hotmail.com
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net 



From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net  Mon Jun 15 06:12:56 2009
From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net)
Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 23:12:56 -0700
Subject: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
In-Reply-To: <B47E9B4F3861487EADA74CAA9C895E06@notebook>
References: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6BF01001@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local><BAY105-DAV3286CB50FCFD6FE77B90ABB410@phx.gbl>	<4a354d03.86c3f10a.0d1b.4f44@mx.google.com><8890DEF2DAEF4AC89881B5750993217B@notebook><4a3589b7.86c3f10a.6ae6.03fd@mx.google.com><A21938F1ECCD47A9AF456EE103E8B437@notebook><BAY106-DAV13B0DDDF4370A8DCAB4791A83E0@phx.gbl>
	<B47E9B4F3861487EADA74CAA9C895E06@notebook>
Message-ID: <3A3025C86BFA4144B3B706FE30A0444E@spike>

The feature for Firefox Web Visum is very confusing to use as instructions 
are not defined in a concise readily available manner. I have used the 
feature at times and it has not always bween satisfactory. I have pretty 
much given up on it. Some times it worked, some times it didn't and it 
wasn't all that user friendly for occasional use.
Chuck
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Bryan Schulz" <b.schulz at sbcglobal.net>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 7:39 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied


> hi,
>
> i don't get the big idea about all these social sites but
> a good work around for us is to use firefox and the captia buster plugin.
>
> Bryan Schulz
> The BEST Solution
> www.best-acts.com
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "RJ Sandefur" <rjs59 at hotmail.com>
> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 9:28 PM
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
>
>
>> Bryan, What is your take on web sights such  as twitter, which use 
>> capcha? Has any one with within the blindness comunity tryed contacting 
>> the developers of twitter concerning the needs and concerns of the blind 
>> comunity concerning this issue? RJ
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Bryan Schulz" <b.schulz at sbcglobal.net>
>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 9:56 PM
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
>>
>>
>>> hi,
>>>
>>> no, i saw that idea and don't know why you would want to do things the 
>>> hard way or different/use software probably not used by colleagues or 
>>> others in your field.
>>>
>>> Bryan Schulz
>>> The BEST Solution
>>> www.best-acts.com
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: "Angie Matney" <angie.matney at gmail.com>
>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 6:37 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
>>>
>>>
>>>> Uhm, did you miss the part about wanting a linux machine? (grin)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] 
>>>> On
>>>> Behalf Of Bryan Schulz
>>>> Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 6:51 PM
>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
>>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> DUMB!
>>>> buy another 2.5" laptop hard drive and a thin sata to usb enclosure.
>>>> then use casper to clone your drive to the second hard drive as it is 
>>>> free
>>>> for 30 days.
>>>> then uninstall everything you have to in order to comply with the 
>>>> testing
>>>> rules.
>>>> after the test, swap the hard drives as the new one will most likely 
>>>> have
>>>> much more capacity and you could then use the original smaller drive in 
>>>> the
>>>> usb enclosure for extra storage.
>>>> the new drive and enclosure will cost about $80.
>>>>
>>>> Bryan Schulz
>>>> The BEST Solution
>>>> www.best-acts.com
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>> From: "Angie Matney" <angie.matney at gmail.com>
>>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 2:18 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> For those who are lucky enough to be able to use a laptop on the 
>>>>> essays, I
>>>>> have a thought. If I am ultimately granted this accommodation, I 
>>>>> expect
>>>>> the
>>>>> Board will ask me to wipe my computer clean. I believe that, instead 
>>>>> of
>>>>> gutting my computer (and then worrying that I have inadvertently left
>>>>> something on there that shouldn't be there), I am going to buy a 
>>>>> second
>>>>> netbook for use on the bar. A netbook costs around $400. I might buy 
>>>>> one
>>>>> just like the one I am using now. I can always sell it at a discount 
>>>>> after
>>>>> I'm done. (Then again, I might keep it and turn it into a linux
>>>>> machine...but that''s a topic of discussion for another list.) Current
>>>>> netbooks comply with the technical requirements that Virginia has for
>>>>> laptops. Also, the batter ycan last for an entire day of testing 
>>>>> without
>>>>> needing to be recharged.
>>>>>
>>>>> This is not exactly the cheapest solution, but I believe it's what I 
>>>>> will
>>>>> do
>>>>> it I need a clean computer.
>>>>>
>>>>> Angie
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b.schulz%40sbcglob
>>>> al.net
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> blindlaw:
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie.matney%40gma
>>>> il.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>>>> blindlaw:
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b.schulz%40sbcglobal.net
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>>> blindlaw:
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rjs59%40hotmail.com
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> blindlaw:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b.schulz%40sbcglobal.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net 



From angie.matney at gmail.com  Mon Jun 15 06:14:31 2009
From: angie.matney at gmail.com (Angie Matney)
Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 02:14:31 -0400
Subject: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
In-Reply-To: <6C964A8115B9485DB4FDF54D0AF5E42C@notebook>
References: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6BF01001@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local><BAY105-DAV3286CB50FCFD6FE77B90ABB410@phx.gbl>	<4a354d03.86c3f10a.0d1b.4f44@mx.google.com><8890DEF2DAEF4AC89881B5750993217B@notebook>	<4a358b99.1ac1f10a.0ed9.4fff@mx.google.com>
	<6C964A8115B9485DB4FDF54D0AF5E42C@notebook>
Message-ID: <4a35e6c2.04c2f10a.033c.ffffab5c@mx.google.com>

I don't think I said anything about wanting a cheap solution. I want to have
the use of my computer in its current configuration in the days leading up
to the bar and during the five evenings or so that I will be staying in a
hotel while taking the Bar. (I also want an excuse to buy a machine to put
linux on.)

All of this will of course be moot if 1) VA says I cannot use a laptop, or
2) the software they use is actually accessible, or 3) they don't require me
to clean off the hard drive (this last is EXTREMELY unlikely, given the
language of the agreement that was sent to me). In any of these cases, I
will just have to wait for another opportunity to get my linux machine.

Angie

-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Bryan Schulz
Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 10:01 PM
To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied

hi,

i guess a one word opinion to you is long winded rude high school banter.
it sounded like you wanted a cheap solution and i offered one.

Bryan Schulz
The BEST Solution
www.best-acts.com

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Angie Matney" <angie.matney at gmail.com>
To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 6:45 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied


> Also, using my strategy will enable me to take my fully operational 
> computer
> with me for use in the evenings. I fully admit this is not the cheapest 
> way
> to go, but there is no call for you to be rude about it. Simply don't do 
> as
> I have suggested. Post your own ideas and refrain from junior-high-school
> dialogue.
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Bryan Schulz
> Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 6:51 PM
> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
>
> Hi,
>
> DUMB!
> buy another 2.5" laptop hard drive and a thin sata to usb enclosure.
> then use casper to clone your drive to the second hard drive as it is free
> for 30 days.
> then uninstall everything you have to in order to comply with the testing
> rules.
> after the test, swap the hard drives as the new one will most likely have
> much more capacity and you could then use the original smaller drive in 
> the
> usb enclosure for extra storage.
> the new drive and enclosure will cost about $80.
>
> Bryan Schulz
> The BEST Solution
> www.best-acts.com
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Angie Matney" <angie.matney at gmail.com>
> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 2:18 PM
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
>
>
>> For those who are lucky enough to be able to use a laptop on the essays, 
>> I
>> have a thought. If I am ultimately granted this accommodation, I expect
>> the
>> Board will ask me to wipe my computer clean. I believe that, instead of
>> gutting my computer (and then worrying that I have inadvertently left
>> something on there that shouldn't be there), I am going to buy a second
>> netbook for use on the bar. A netbook costs around $400. I might buy one
>> just like the one I am using now. I can always sell it at a discount 
>> after
>> I'm done. (Then again, I might keep it and turn it into a linux
>> machine...but that''s a topic of discussion for another list.) Current
>> netbooks comply with the technical requirements that Virginia has for
>> laptops. Also, the batter ycan last for an entire day of testing without
>> needing to be recharged.
>>
>> This is not exactly the cheapest solution, but I believe it's what I will
>> do
>> it I need a clean computer.
>>
>> Angie
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindlaw:
>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b.schulz%40sbcglob
> al.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindlaw:
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie.matney%40gma
> il.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b.schulz%40sbcglob
al.net 


_______________________________________________
blindlaw mailing list
blindlaw at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
blindlaw:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie.matney%40gma
il.com



From b.schulz at sbcglobal.net  Mon Jun 15 06:29:47 2009
From: b.schulz at sbcglobal.net (Bryan Schulz)
Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 01:29:47 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
References: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6BF01001@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local><BAY105-DAV3286CB50FCFD6FE77B90ABB410@phx.gbl><4a354d03.86c3f10a.0d1b.4f44@mx.google.com><8890DEF2DAEF4AC89881B5750993217B@notebook><003401c9ed73$597ce8b0$0401a8c0@computer><648DEB12A4E24197B6F89FF803E84BF6@notebook>
	<004801c9ed7e$82fb2890$0401a8c0@computer>
Message-ID: <CC352DD9A7374E5BA8102F5D397452E7@notebook>

ok i guess it's the borne supremacy

sorry to continue this useless post.
i don't claim to know law and don't know you so i don't know how i am 
considered your colleague.
obviously you are one of the people that think your way is the only way
you obviously can't tell the difference of saying someone is dumb or a 
concept is thought of as dumb
i am always professional when dealing with clients or an agency and i don't 
feel it necessary to always type as if i'm wearing a suit but feel free to 
pull that tie a couple inches tighter.
realize that people offer opinions and hit delete if you don't like it.

Bryan Schulz
The BEST Solution
www.best-acts.com

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Craig Borne" <cdborne at gmail.com>
To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 12:59 AM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied


> First of all, my name is not "Bud."
>
> Second, your tech strategy did not take into account what she proposed to 
> do
> with the computer after its use.
>
> Third, I appreciate your opinion as to my electronic and computer needs, 
> but
> I frankly don't see where you get off telling me what my courtroom 
> demeanor
> will or will not be.  If you stick to your expertise, you may do well.
> However, telling someone that they are "dumb" for proposing a solution is
> tactless at the least and arrogant at best.  I certainly hope you don't
> treat your paying clients the same way you treat your "colleagues."
>
> I have had comments with you in the past, and frankly, I don't see how you
> keep clients if you address them in the same rude manner that you address
> fello Federationists.
>
> Craig
>
>
>
> Craig Borne
> Baltimore, Maryland
> "A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial
> appearance of being right, and raises at first a formidable outcry in
> defense of custom."  --Thomas Paine, Common Sense
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Bryan Schulz
> Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 1:13 AM
> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
>
> bud,
>
> i gave a solution to her problem that would have saved her a good $300.
> she can do what ever she wants, get it solved or continue to battle the
> testing official.
> if you don't like my tact or attitude, that's probably mild to the 
> courtroom
>
> and you'll be shark bait for the opposition.
>
> Bryan Schulz
> The BEST Solution
> www.best-acts.com
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Craig Borne" <cdborne at gmail.com>
> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 11:40 PM
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
>
>
>> Bryan,
>>
>> You really need to learn a little tact.  She was looking for a 
>> work-around
>> to an accommodation issue, not a tech solution to what she needed.
>>
>> Frankly, I am getting really tired of the non-attorney participants on
>> this
>> list chiming in on law (or bar exam) issues.  Is this or is it not a list
>> for blind lawyers and law related to blind related issues?  If so, why 
>> are
>> the attorneys (or law students) on this list constantly assaulted with
>> flaming comments that neither answer legal questions nor promote the
>> practice of law with blind attorneys?  Over the past few weeks, I have
>> exercised my delete key more often than in the past due to the high email
>> traffic related neither to the practice of law nor to legal issues 
>> related
>> to blind plaintiffs/defendants.
>>
>> I respectfully ask that this loosy-goosy monitoring of this list serve be
>> tightened.  I am frankly tired of receiving emails containing flames from
>> non-attorneys discussing non-legal topics.  It is a waste of time and an
>> annoyance.  I, as a practicing attorney, am less inclined to post a query
>> to
>> this list because I don't have the time or patience to deal with the
>> replies
>> coming from judgmental, non-legal participants in this list.
>>
>> Either blind attorneys/law students have a forum on blindnet, or they do
>> not.
>>
>> Craig
>>
>>
>> Craig Borne
>> Baltimore, Maryland
>> "A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial
>> appearance of being right, and raises at first a formidable outcry in
>> defense of custom."  --Thomas Paine, Common Sense
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf Of Bryan Schulz
>> Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 6:51 PM
>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> DUMB!
>> buy another 2.5" laptop hard drive and a thin sata to usb enclosure.
>> then use casper to clone your drive to the second hard drive as it is 
>> free
>> for 30 days.
>> then uninstall everything you have to in order to comply with the testing
>> rules.
>> after the test, swap the hard drives as the new one will most likely have
>> much more capacity and you could then use the original smaller drive in
>> the
>> usb enclosure for extra storage.
>> the new drive and enclosure will cost about $80.
>>
>> Bryan Schulz
>> The BEST Solution
>> www.best-acts.com
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Angie Matney" <angie.matney at gmail.com>
>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 2:18 PM
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
>>
>>
>>> For those who are lucky enough to be able to use a laptop on the essays,
>>> I
>>> have a thought. If I am ultimately granted this accommodation, I expect
>>> the
>>> Board will ask me to wipe my computer clean. I believe that, instead of
>>> gutting my computer (and then worrying that I have inadvertently left
>>> something on there that shouldn't be there), I am going to buy a second
>>> netbook for use on the bar. A netbook costs around $400. I might buy one
>>> just like the one I am using now. I can always sell it at a discount
>>> after
>>> I'm done. (Then again, I might keep it and turn it into a linux
>>> machine...but that''s a topic of discussion for another list.) Current
>>> netbooks comply with the technical requirements that Virginia has for
>>> laptops. Also, the batter ycan last for an entire day of testing without
>>> needing to be recharged.
>>>
>>> This is not exactly the cheapest solution, but I believe it's what I 
>>> will
>>> do
>>> it I need a clean computer.
>>>
>>> Angie
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> blindlaw:
>>>
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b.schulz%40sbcglob
>> al.net
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindlaw:
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdborne%40gmail.co
>> m
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindlaw:
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b.schulz%40sbcglob
> al.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdborne%40gmail.co
> m
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b.schulz%40sbcglobal.net 



From b.schulz at sbcglobal.net  Mon Jun 15 06:33:53 2009
From: b.schulz at sbcglobal.net (Bryan Schulz)
Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 01:33:53 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
References: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6BF01001@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local><BAY105-DAV3286CB50FCFD6FE77B90ABB410@phx.gbl>	<4a354d03.86c3f10a.0d1b.4f44@mx.google.com><8890DEF2DAEF4AC89881B5750993217B@notebook><4a3589b7.86c3f10a.6ae6.03fd@mx.google.com><A21938F1ECCD47A9AF456EE103E8B437@notebook><BAY106-DAV13B0DDDF4370A8DCAB4791A83E0@phx.gbl><B47E9B4F3861487EADA74CAA9C895E06@notebook>
	<3A3025C86BFA4144B3B706FE30A0444E@spike>
Message-ID: <C5934F4D7200474FB4FCA5AFC54A4B61@notebook>

hi,

this of course is meant for another list but i have been able to hit 
alt+control+6 and i have had a password generated for pasting 100% of the 
time but i haven't had the need to use it on those social blog sites.

Bryan Schulz
The BEST Solution
www.best-acts.com

----- Original Message ----- 
From: <ckrugman at sbcglobal.net>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 1:12 AM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied


> The feature for Firefox Web Visum is very confusing to use as instructions 
> are not defined in a concise readily available manner. I have used the 
> feature at times and it has not always bween satisfactory. I have pretty 
> much given up on it. Some times it worked, some times it didn't and it 
> wasn't all that user friendly for occasional use.
> Chuck
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Bryan Schulz" <b.schulz at sbcglobal.net>
> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 7:39 PM
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
>
>
>> hi,
>>
>> i don't get the big idea about all these social sites but
>> a good work around for us is to use firefox and the captia buster plugin.
>>
>> Bryan Schulz
>> The BEST Solution
>> www.best-acts.com
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "RJ Sandefur" <rjs59 at hotmail.com>
>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 9:28 PM
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
>>
>>
>>> Bryan, What is your take on web sights such  as twitter, which use 
>>> capcha? Has any one with within the blindness comunity tryed contacting 
>>> the developers of twitter concerning the needs and concerns of the blind 
>>> comunity concerning this issue? RJ
>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: "Bryan Schulz" <b.schulz at sbcglobal.net>
>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 9:56 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
>>>
>>>
>>>> hi,
>>>>
>>>> no, i saw that idea and don't know why you would want to do things the 
>>>> hard way or different/use software probably not used by colleagues or 
>>>> others in your field.
>>>>
>>>> Bryan Schulz
>>>> The BEST Solution
>>>> www.best-acts.com
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>> From: "Angie Matney" <angie.matney at gmail.com>
>>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 6:37 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Uhm, did you miss the part about wanting a linux machine? (grin)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] 
>>>>> On
>>>>> Behalf Of Bryan Schulz
>>>>> Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 6:51 PM
>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>
>>>>> DUMB!
>>>>> buy another 2.5" laptop hard drive and a thin sata to usb enclosure.
>>>>> then use casper to clone your drive to the second hard drive as it is 
>>>>> free
>>>>> for 30 days.
>>>>> then uninstall everything you have to in order to comply with the 
>>>>> testing
>>>>> rules.
>>>>> after the test, swap the hard drives as the new one will most likely 
>>>>> have
>>>>> much more capacity and you could then use the original smaller drive 
>>>>> in the
>>>>> usb enclosure for extra storage.
>>>>> the new drive and enclosure will cost about $80.
>>>>>
>>>>> Bryan Schulz
>>>>> The BEST Solution
>>>>> www.best-acts.com
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>> From: "Angie Matney" <angie.matney at gmail.com>
>>>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 2:18 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> For those who are lucky enough to be able to use a laptop on the 
>>>>>> essays, I
>>>>>> have a thought. If I am ultimately granted this accommodation, I 
>>>>>> expect
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> Board will ask me to wipe my computer clean. I believe that, instead 
>>>>>> of
>>>>>> gutting my computer (and then worrying that I have inadvertently left
>>>>>> something on there that shouldn't be there), I am going to buy a 
>>>>>> second
>>>>>> netbook for use on the bar. A netbook costs around $400. I might buy 
>>>>>> one
>>>>>> just like the one I am using now. I can always sell it at a discount 
>>>>>> after
>>>>>> I'm done. (Then again, I might keep it and turn it into a linux
>>>>>> machine...but that''s a topic of discussion for another list.) 
>>>>>> Current
>>>>>> netbooks comply with the technical requirements that Virginia has for
>>>>>> laptops. Also, the batter ycan last for an entire day of testing 
>>>>>> without
>>>>>> needing to be recharged.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This is not exactly the cheapest solution, but I believe it's what I 
>>>>>> will
>>>>>> do
>>>>>> it I need a clean computer.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Angie
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b.schulz%40sbcglob
>>>>> al.net
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie.matney%40gma
>>>>> il.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b.schulz%40sbcglobal.net
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>>>> blindlaw:
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rjs59%40hotmail.com
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>>> blindlaw:
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b.schulz%40sbcglobal.net
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> blindlaw:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b.schulz%40sbcglobal.net 



From mhanson at winternet.com  Mon Jun 15 08:51:24 2009
From: mhanson at winternet.com (Michael O. Hanson)
Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 03:51:24 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
References: <965679953DA54B9B8EBFBC94FFAE3453@bentar802wznlv><FC50B49ED94B8A45A9AA3CE6D096CAED1E773E@2K3FS1.screnci.local>	<4a32ea72.1ac1f10a.1f2a.648a@mx.google.com><003501c9ed74$96b98660$0401a8c0@computer>
	<4a35d7ea.47c2f10a.532d.14ff@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <94A55A87D15E43C38E622EFC3A1D4615@hp048378e4c43a>

I was allowed to use a laptop when I took the bar exam in Minnesota.  I used 
it for esay questions.  I used a reader to take the MBE.


Mike Hanson
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Angie Matney" <angie.matney at gmail.com>
To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 12:11 AM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied


> Hello craig,
>
>
>
> Thanks for this info. So far, I know of six states where people have been
> granted this accommodation. I am going to call the VA Board tomorrow to
> discuss the situation.
>
>
>
> Angie
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Craig Borne
> Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 12:49 AM
> To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
>
>
>
> Angie,
>
>
>
> I used my laptop for the Maryland essay portion of the bar exam.  I was
> given both the question and any abstracts on disk, and I was able to type 
> my
> answers on the computer.  I did not use any special computer software
> required by the board, and my answers were printed out to submit.  I was
> responsible for the laptop, disk drive (it was a floppy disk), and the
> printer.
>
>
>
> The MBE was read to me and my answers were oral.  I was given the name and
> number of the reader prior to the exam, so I could speak with the reader
> first.
>
>
>
> Craig
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Craig Borne
>
> Baltimore, Maryland
>
> "A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial
> appearance of being right, and raises at first a formidable outcry in
> defense of custom."  --Thomas Paine, Common Sense
>
>  _____
>
> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Angie Matney
> Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 7:53 PM
> To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'
> Subject: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
>
>
>
> Hello,
>
>
>
> I asked for and was granted a Braille MBE and a Braille version of the 
> ssay
> questions. My request to write my answers to the essays was denied. I am
> supposed to dictate them to a court reporter. The documentation I received
> from the VA bar examiners is unclear as to whether or not I will first be
> able to prepare my answers in Braille and then dictate them (it 
> specifically
> says I can do this for the MBE, but not the essays), or whether I have to
> simply dictate my answers. I have serious concerns about my ability to
> perform effectively on the exam if it is the latter. I have never taken an
> essay test via dictation--I mentioned this in my accommodations request. I
> explained why the process was different for the MBE and the essay portion 
> of
> the bar, but apparently my explanation was not sufficient, not understood,
> or not accepted.
>
>
>
> Has anyone been granted the option to use a laptop during the 
> state-specific
> portion of the Bar exam? It is my understanding that this is fairly 
> common.
>
>
>
> Virginia does have a program whereby any person taking the exam can 
> register
> to take it via laptop, but I have concerns about the accessibility of the
> software they use, which disables all but some basic word-processing
> functions of the computer. The software is called Exam4, and the maker is
> Extegrity. Has anyone had experience with this software and a screen 
> reader?
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
>
>
> Angie
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mhanson%40winternet.com
> 




From rjaquiss at earthlink.net  Mon Jun 15 12:03:33 2009
From: rjaquiss at earthlink.net (Robert Jaquiss)
Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 07:03:33 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] California Trying E-books in high school
Message-ID: <C41B91C8F59E41198D0CF10051401FC0@D3DTZP41>

Hello LIst:

     I saw an article mentioning that California is going to roll out E-books for high school. Doing some research, I found a "fact sheet" on the governor's page. The link to it is below.

http://gov.ca.gov/index.php?/fact-sheet/12455/

Regards,

Robert Jaquiss

From angie.matney at gmail.com  Mon Jun 15 14:33:33 2009
From: angie.matney at gmail.com (Angie Matney)
Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 10:33:33 -0400
Subject: [blindlaw] Update on essay situation
Message-ID: <4a365bba.03015a0a.2f47.005c@mx.google.com>

Hello everyone,

 

I had a very positive conversation with someone in the Board's office this
morning. I don't have a final answer yet, but this person was very willing
to listen to my concerns and the alternatives I proposed. Hopefully, I will
be able to give you all a very positive update in the near future.

 

Thanks to all of you who related your bar-exam experiences.

 

Angie

 

 


From roddj12 at hotmail.com  Mon Jun 15 14:46:27 2009
From: roddj12 at hotmail.com (Rod Alcidonis)
Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 10:46:27 -0400
Subject: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
References: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6BF01001@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local><BAY105-DAV3286CB50FCFD6FE77B90ABB410@phx.gbl><4a354d03.86c3f10a.0d1b.4f44@mx.google.com><8890DEF2DAEF4AC89881B5750993217B@notebook>
	<003401c9ed73$597ce8b0$0401a8c0@computer>
Message-ID: <BAY105-DAV32F01823D9B696961F629BB3E0@phx.gbl>

Craig:

Good comments. There was a time when there was talk for the list to remain 
only for blind attorneys, and I opposed it. Granted, I was not a law student 
then, but I now see why this would have been the best idea. There is a music 
production listserv called Midimag, it is so well monitored that there 
aren't any posts that is not music related. Folks usually don't get to post 
more than one off message on the list.

Rod Alcidonis, J.D.
C. 718-704-4651
roddj12 at hotmail.com

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Craig Borne" <cdborne at gmail.com>
To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 12:40 AM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied


> Bryan,
>
> You really need to learn a little tact.  She was looking for a work-around
> to an accommodation issue, not a tech solution to what she needed.
>
> Frankly, I am getting really tired of the non-attorney participants on 
> this
> list chiming in on law (or bar exam) issues.  Is this or is it not a list
> for blind lawyers and law related to blind related issues?  If so, why are
> the attorneys (or law students) on this list constantly assaulted with
> flaming comments that neither answer legal questions nor promote the
> practice of law with blind attorneys?  Over the past few weeks, I have
> exercised my delete key more often than in the past due to the high email
> traffic related neither to the practice of law nor to legal issues related
> to blind plaintiffs/defendants.
>
> I respectfully ask that this loosy-goosy monitoring of this list serve be
> tightened.  I am frankly tired of receiving emails containing flames from
> non-attorneys discussing non-legal topics.  It is a waste of time and an
> annoyance.  I, as a practicing attorney, am less inclined to post a query 
> to
> this list because I don't have the time or patience to deal with the 
> replies
> coming from judgmental, non-legal participants in this list.
>
> Either blind attorneys/law students have a forum on blindnet, or they do
> not.
>
> Craig
>
>
> Craig Borne
> Baltimore, Maryland
> "A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial
> appearance of being right, and raises at first a formidable outcry in
> defense of custom."  --Thomas Paine, Common Sense
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Bryan Schulz
> Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 6:51 PM
> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
>
> Hi,
>
> DUMB!
> buy another 2.5" laptop hard drive and a thin sata to usb enclosure.
> then use casper to clone your drive to the second hard drive as it is free
> for 30 days.
> then uninstall everything you have to in order to comply with the testing
> rules.
> after the test, swap the hard drives as the new one will most likely have
> much more capacity and you could then use the original smaller drive in 
> the
> usb enclosure for extra storage.
> the new drive and enclosure will cost about $80.
>
> Bryan Schulz
> The BEST Solution
> www.best-acts.com
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Angie Matney" <angie.matney at gmail.com>
> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 2:18 PM
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
>
>
>> For those who are lucky enough to be able to use a laptop on the essays, 
>> I
>> have a thought. If I am ultimately granted this accommodation, I expect
>> the
>> Board will ask me to wipe my computer clean. I believe that, instead of
>> gutting my computer (and then worrying that I have inadvertently left
>> something on there that shouldn't be there), I am going to buy a second
>> netbook for use on the bar. A netbook costs around $400. I might buy one
>> just like the one I am using now. I can always sell it at a discount 
>> after
>> I'm done. (Then again, I might keep it and turn it into a linux
>> machine...but that''s a topic of discussion for another list.) Current
>> netbooks comply with the technical requirements that Virginia has for
>> laptops. Also, the batter ycan last for an entire day of testing without
>> needing to be recharged.
>>
>> This is not exactly the cheapest solution, but I believe it's what I will
>> do
>> it I need a clean computer.
>>
>> Angie
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindlaw:
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b.schulz%40sbcglob
> al.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdborne%40gmail.co
> m
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail.com
> 



From roddj12 at hotmail.com  Mon Jun 15 15:46:59 2009
From: roddj12 at hotmail.com (Rod Alcidonis)
Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 11:46:59 -0400
Subject: [blindlaw] Update on essay situation
References: <4a365bba.03015a0a.2f47.005c@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <BAY105-DAV1102E9A7F59BB46DC39F65BB3E0@phx.gbl>

Good job, Angie.
I am glad that it is working out.

Rod Alcidonis, J.D.
C. 718-704-4651
roddj12 at hotmail.com

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Angie Matney" <angie.matney at gmail.com>
To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 10:33 AM
Subject: [blindlaw] Update on essay situation


> Hello everyone,
>
>
>
> I had a very positive conversation with someone in the Board's office this
> morning. I don't have a final answer yet, but this person was very willing
> to listen to my concerns and the alternatives I proposed. Hopefully, I 
> will
> be able to give you all a very positive update in the near future.
>
>
>
> Thanks to all of you who related your bar-exam experiences.
>
>
>
> Angie
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail.com
> 



From shermeen.k at gmail.com  Mon Jun 15 16:15:02 2009
From: shermeen.k at gmail.com (Shermeen Khan)
Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 12:15:02 -0400
Subject: [blindlaw] introduction and a few questions
Message-ID: <8250ec310906150915q4569f84ejb254d23413571288@mail.gmail.com>

Hi everyone,
My name is Shermeen, and I am a Canadian university student hoping to
go to law school for September of 2010. I am scheduled to write the
LSAT this upcoming September, and just had a few questions that I hope
are best suited to this list (I didn't see a list for law school
applicants specifically).
As I am preparing for the LSAT, I am encountering some issues with
logic games. I have purchased the powerscore Bible trilogy from
powerscore.com, but am concerned about the visual representations and
diagrams used to teach people how to set up and solve logic games. I
am wondering if I should take a prep course (such as Caplyn or Oxford
seminar), but am likewise concerned that they, too, will be teaching
us how to solve logic games diagramatically. Also, I doubt I'd have
access to diagram-creating materials on the day of the test. I'm
wondering what prep materials/courses you have found helpful, and
which most effectively explain how to go about dealing with logic
games to a person who is blind.
I apologize in advance if this list isn't the appropriate place to
post this, and look forward to reading your replies. Also, if you have
any further questions, please don't hesitate to ask.
Thanks again,
-Shermeen


From lists at zufelt.ca  Mon Jun 15 17:28:00 2009
From: lists at zufelt.ca (E.J. Zufelt)
Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 13:28:00 -0400
Subject: [blindlaw] About blindlaw,
	was Request for laptop during essay section denied
In-Reply-To: <BAY105-DAV32F01823D9B696961F629BB3E0@phx.gbl>
References: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6BF01001@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local><BAY105-DAV3286CB50FCFD6FE77B90ABB410@phx.gbl><4a354d03.86c3f10a.0d1b.4f44@mx.google.com><8890DEF2DAEF4AC89881B5750993217B@notebook>
	<003401c9ed73$597ce8b0$0401a8c0@computer>
	<BAY105-DAV32F01823D9B696961F629BB3E0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <8A243E22-60A1-4FE1-A617-013133B39155@zufelt.ca>

Good afternoon,

Perhaps people would benefit from a second list for law professionals  
only?

About blindlaw:

The purpose of Blind Law is for the discussion of legal matters and  
topics directly related to blind people and their blindness. This  
discussion area will
be directly monitored by members of the National Association of Blind  
Lawyers, a division of the National Federation of the Blind.

This area is also intended as a means for the members of the
National Association of Blind Lawyers to stay in contact with each  
other.

HTH,
Everett


On 15-Jun-09, at 10:46 AM, Rod Alcidonis wrote:

> Craig:
>
> Good comments. There was a time when there was talk for the list to  
> remain only for blind attorneys, and I opposed it. Granted, I was  
> not a law student then, but I now see why this would have been the  
> best idea. There is a music production listserv called Midimag, it  
> is so well monitored that there aren't any posts that is not music  
> related. Folks usually don't get to post more than one off message  
> on the list.
>
> Rod Alcidonis, J.D.
> C. 718-704-4651
> roddj12 at hotmail.com
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Craig Borne" <cdborne at gmail.com>
> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 12:40 AM
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
>
>
>> Bryan,
>>
>> You really need to learn a little tact.  She was looking for a work- 
>> around
>> to an accommodation issue, not a tech solution to what she needed.
>>
>> Frankly, I am getting really tired of the non-attorney participants  
>> on this
>> list chiming in on law (or bar exam) issues.  Is this or is it not  
>> a list
>> for blind lawyers and law related to blind related issues?  If so,  
>> why are
>> the attorneys (or law students) on this list constantly assaulted  
>> with
>> flaming comments that neither answer legal questions nor promote the
>> practice of law with blind attorneys?  Over the past few weeks, I  
>> have
>> exercised my delete key more often than in the past due to the high  
>> email
>> traffic related neither to the practice of law nor to legal issues  
>> related
>> to blind plaintiffs/defendants.
>>
>> I respectfully ask that this loosy-goosy monitoring of this list  
>> serve be
>> tightened.  I am frankly tired of receiving emails containing  
>> flames from
>> non-attorneys discussing non-legal topics.  It is a waste of time  
>> and an
>> annoyance.  I, as a practicing attorney, am less inclined to post a  
>> query to
>> this list because I don't have the time or patience to deal with  
>> the replies
>> coming from judgmental, non-legal participants in this list.
>>
>> Either blind attorneys/law students have a forum on blindnet, or  
>> they do
>> not.
>>
>> Craig
>>
>>
>> Craig Borne
>> Baltimore, Maryland
>> "A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial
>> appearance of being right, and raises at first a formidable outcry in
>> defense of custom."  --Thomas Paine, Common Sense
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw- 
>> bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf Of Bryan Schulz
>> Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 6:51 PM
>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section  
>> denied
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> DUMB!
>> buy another 2.5" laptop hard drive and a thin sata to usb enclosure.
>> then use casper to clone your drive to the second hard drive as it  
>> is free
>> for 30 days.
>> then uninstall everything you have to in order to comply with the  
>> testing
>> rules.
>> after the test, swap the hard drives as the new one will most  
>> likely have
>> much more capacity and you could then use the original smaller  
>> drive in the
>> usb enclosure for extra storage.
>> the new drive and enclosure will cost about $80.
>>
>> Bryan Schulz
>> The BEST Solution
>> www.best-acts.com
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Angie Matney" <angie.matney at gmail.com 
>> >
>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 2:18 PM
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section  
>> denied
>>
>>
>>> For those who are lucky enough to be able to use a laptop on the  
>>> essays, I
>>> have a thought. If I am ultimately granted this accommodation, I  
>>> expect
>>> the
>>> Board will ask me to wipe my computer clean. I believe that,  
>>> instead of
>>> gutting my computer (and then worrying that I have inadvertently  
>>> left
>>> something on there that shouldn't be there), I am going to buy a  
>>> second
>>> netbook for use on the bar. A netbook costs around $400. I might  
>>> buy one
>>> just like the one I am using now. I can always sell it at a  
>>> discount after
>>> I'm done. (Then again, I might keep it and turn it into a linux
>>> machine...but that''s a topic of discussion for another list.)  
>>> Current
>>> netbooks comply with the technical requirements that Virginia has  
>>> for
>>> laptops. Also, the batter ycan last for an entire day of testing  
>>> without
>>> needing to be recharged.
>>>
>>> This is not exactly the cheapest solution, but I believe it's what  
>>> I will
>>> do
>>> it I need a clean computer.
>>>
>>> Angie
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info  
>>> for
>>> blindlaw:
>>>
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b.schulz%40sbcglob
>> al.net
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindlaw:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdborne%40gmail.co
>> m
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info  
>> for blindlaw:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info  
> for blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/everett%40zufelt.ca



From slabarre at labarrelaw.com  Mon Jun 15 18:40:21 2009
From: slabarre at labarrelaw.com (Scott C. LaBarre)
Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 12:40:21 -0600
Subject: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
References: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6BF01001@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local><BAY105-DAV3286CB50FCFD6FE77B90ABB410@phx.gbl>	<4a354d03.86c3f10a.0d1b.4f44@mx.google.com><8890DEF2DAEF4AC89881B5750993217B@notebook>
	<4a358b99.1ac1f10a.0ed9.4fff@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <AE65BAF30FEC46C087D9261D40BE70F6@labarre>

Greetings:

It is absolutely unacceptable to call anyone or anyone's ideas "dumb" or any 
other such term!!  The next such eppisode of same will be met with immediate 
removal from this list.  It is also accurate to note that when we have had 
such troubles in the past, it almost always comes from list members who are 
not attorneys, legal professionals, or law students.  We are strongly 
considering the idea of  limiting this list to those in the legal profession 
or actively seeking admission thereto.

Scott C. LaBarre, Esq.
President
National Association of Blind Lawyers

LaBarre Law Offices P.C.
1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918
Denver, Colorado 80222
303 504-5979 (voice)
303 757-3640 (fax)
slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail)
www.labarrelaw.com (website)

CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and privileged 
information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read, 
copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in 
error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or slabarre at labarrelaw.com, 
and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any attachments 
are covered by the Electronic
Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Angie Matney" <angie.matney at gmail.com>
To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 5:45 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied


> Also, using my strategy will enable me to take my fully operational 
> computer
> with me for use in the evenings. I fully admit this is not the cheapest 
> way
> to go, but there is no call for you to be rude about it. Simply don't do 
> as
> I have suggested. Post your own ideas and refrain from junior-high-school
> dialogue.
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Bryan Schulz
> Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 6:51 PM
> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
>
> Hi,
>
> DUMB!
> buy another 2.5" laptop hard drive and a thin sata to usb enclosure.
> then use casper to clone your drive to the second hard drive as it is free
> for 30 days.
> then uninstall everything you have to in order to comply with the testing
> rules.
> after the test, swap the hard drives as the new one will most likely have
> much more capacity and you could then use the original smaller drive in 
> the
> usb enclosure for extra storage.
> the new drive and enclosure will cost about $80.
>
> Bryan Schulz
> The BEST Solution
> www.best-acts.com
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Angie Matney" <angie.matney at gmail.com>
> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 2:18 PM
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
>
>
>> For those who are lucky enough to be able to use a laptop on the essays, 
>> I
>> have a thought. If I am ultimately granted this accommodation, I expect
>> the
>> Board will ask me to wipe my computer clean. I believe that, instead of
>> gutting my computer (and then worrying that I have inadvertently left
>> something on there that shouldn't be there), I am going to buy a second
>> netbook for use on the bar. A netbook costs around $400. I might buy one
>> just like the one I am using now. I can always sell it at a discount 
>> after
>> I'm done. (Then again, I might keep it and turn it into a linux
>> machine...but that''s a topic of discussion for another list.) Current
>> netbooks comply with the technical requirements that Virginia has for
>> laptops. Also, the batter ycan last for an entire day of testing without
>> needing to be recharged.
>>
>> This is not exactly the cheapest solution, but I believe it's what I will
>> do
>> it I need a clean computer.
>>
>> Angie
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindlaw:
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b.schulz%40sbcglob
> al.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie.matney%40gma
> il.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/slabarre%40labarrelaw.com
> 




From marks at accessingenuity.com  Mon Jun 15 21:31:34 2009
From: marks at accessingenuity.com (Mark Stimson)
Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 14:31:34 -0700
Subject: [blindlaw] California Trying E-books in high school
In-Reply-To: <C41B91C8F59E41198D0CF10051401FC0@D3DTZP41>
References: <C41B91C8F59E41198D0CF10051401FC0@D3DTZP41>
Message-ID: <022301c9ee00$a868f030$f93ad090$@com>

This is very interesting, thanks for the info.  I do a lot of work on
accessibility of electronic documents (and Web sites) in California; not as
a lawyer but as a field expert usually brought in after a settlement.  If
the E-Books are formatted correctly, this E-Book roll out can be extremely
beneficial for students and teachers with visual impairments.  However, so
often publishers are either unaware of federal and state accessibility
requirements, or implement only the minimal necessities.  Is there anyone
out there that has some experience working on law involving the
accessibility of electronic information?  I joined this group recently to
learn more about the legal side of accessibility.

Best regards, Mark

Mark Stimson, Ph.D.
Document Accessibility Expert
www.DocumentAccessibility.com
www.AccessnIgenuity.com 

-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Robert Jaquiss
Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 5:04 AM
To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
Subject: [blindlaw] California Trying E-books in high school
Importance: High

Hello LIst:

     I saw an article mentioning that California is going to roll out
E-books for high school. Doing some research, I found a "fact sheet" on the
governor's page. The link to it is below.

http://gov.ca.gov/index.php?/fact-sheet/12455/

Regards,

Robert Jaquiss
_______________________________________________
blindlaw mailing list
blindlaw at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
blindlaw:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/marks%40accessinge
nuity.com

__________ NOD32 4155 (20090615) Information __________

This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
http://www.eset.com




From rwayne1 at nyc.rr.com  Mon Jun 15 23:48:13 2009
From: rwayne1 at nyc.rr.com (ray wayne)
Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 19:48:13 -0400
Subject: [blindlaw] [bllaw] International Copyright Concerns for Blind
	Readers
In-Reply-To: <auto-000104125313@mailfront2.g2host.com>
References: <auto-000104125313@mailfront2.g2host.com>
Message-ID: <20090615234813.rwayne1@nyc.rr.com>

Does anyone have updated information on the status of this matter? My chapter members received this e-mail, and our meeting is this Wednesday. The question will invariably come up. 
Thanks in advance. 
Ray Wayne
PS: Please know that I am requesting information only��I do not, REPEAT, DO NOT, wish to instigate a flurry of commentary about the Obama administration! 


----- Original Message -----
From: "Frye, Dan" <DFrye at nfb.org> (by way of David Andrews <dandrews at visi.com>)
To: david.andrews at nfbnet.org
Date: Friday, May 29, 2009 17:42:27
Subject: [bllaw] International Copyright Concerns for Blind Readers

>
>
> 
> Colleagues:
> 
> I am circulating a lengthy post regarding efforts to limit an 
> international treaty that would allow for rules that parallel 
> existing domestic exceptions to the copyright law for blind people to 
> govern in an international context. Please help bring pressure on 
> authorities by letting President Obama know that these provisions 
> would be useful, and ask him to direct his representatives to abandon 
> their hostile posture toward aspects of the treaty that would be 
> helpful. You may Email your concerns to:
> 
> <mailto:President at whitehouse.gov>President at whitehouse.gov
> 
> The post follows:
> 
> 
> Right now, in Geneva, at the UN's World Intellectual Property 
> Organization, history is being made. For the first time in WIPO 
> history, the body that creates the world's copyright treaties is 
> attempting to write a copyright treaty dedicated to protecting the 
> interests of copyright users, not just copyright owners.
> 
> At issue is a treaty to protect the rights of blind people and people 
> with other disabilities that affect reading (people with dyslexia, 
> people who are paralyzed or lack arms or hands for turning pages). 
> This should be a slam dunk: who wouldn't want a harmonized system of 
> copyright exceptions that ensure that it's possible for disabled 
> people to get access to the written word?
> 
> The USA, that's who. The Obama administration'
> 
> US negotiators have joined with a rogue's gallery of rich country 
> trade representatives to oppose protection for blind people. Other 
> nations and regions opposing the rights of blind people include 
> Canada and the EU.
> 
> Update: Also opposing rights for disabled people: Australia, New 
> Zealand, the Vatican and Norway.
> 
> Activists at WIPO are desperate to get the word out. They're tweeting 
> madly from the negotiation (technically called the 18th session of 
> the Standing Committee on Copyright and Related Rights) publishing 
> editorials on the Huffington Post, etc.
> 
> Here's where you come in: this has to get wide exposure, to get cast 
> as broadly as possible, so that it will find its way into the ears of 
> the obscure power-brokers who control national trade-negotiators.
> 
> I don't often ask readers to do things like this, but please, forward 
> this post to people you know in the US, Canada and the EU, and ask 
> them to reblog, tweet, and spread the word, especially to government 
> officials and activists who work on disabled rights. We know that 
> WIPO negotiations can be overwhelmed by citizen activists -- that's 
> how we killed the Broadcast Treaty negotiation a few years back -- 
> and with your help, we can make history, and create a world where 
> copyright law protects the public interest.
> 
> I am attending a meeting in Geneva of the World Intellectual Property 
> Organization (WIPO). This evening the United States government, in 
> combination with other high income countries in "Group B" is seeking 
> to block an agreement to discuss a treaty for persons who are blind 
> or have other reading disabilities.
> 
> The proposal for a treaty is supported by a large number of civil 
> society NGOs, the World Blind Union, the National Federation of the 
> Blind in the US, the International DAISY Consortium, Recording for 
> the Blind & Dyslexic (RFB&D), Bookshare.Org, and groups representing 
> persons with reading disabilities all around the world.
> 
> The main aim of the treaty is to allow the cross-border import and 
> export of digital copies of books and other copyrighted works in 
> formats that are accessible to persons who are blind, visually 
> impaired, dyslexic or have other reading disabilities, using special 
> devices that present text as refreshable braille, computer generated 
> text to speech, or large type. These works, which are expensive to 
> make, are typically created under national exceptions to copyright 
> law that are specifically written to benefit persons with disabilities.
> 
> ...
> 
> The opposition from the United States and other high income countries 
> is due to intense lobbying from a large group of publishers that 
> oppose a "paradigm shift,"
> 
> where treaties would protect consumer interests, rather than expand 
> rights for copyright owners.
> 
> The Obama Administration was lobbied heavily on this issue, including 
> meetings with high level White House officials. Assurances coming 
> into the negotiations this week that things were going in the right 
> direction have turned out to be false, as the United States 
> delegation has basically read from a script written by lobbyists for 
> publishers, extolling the virtues of market based solutions, ignoring 
> mountains of evidence of a "book famine" and the insane legal 
> barriers to share works.
> 
> Obama Joins Group to Block Treaty for Blind and Other Reading 
> Disabilities COPYRIGHT EXCEPTIONS AND LIMITATIONS Twitter feed for #sccr18
> 
> 
> 
> With Kind Regards,
> 
> 
> inininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininin*
> Daniel B. Frye, J.D.
> Associate Editor
> The Braille Monitor
> National Federation of the Blind
> Office of the President
> 1800 Johnson Street
> Baltimore, Maryland 21230
> Telephone: (410) 659-9314 Ext. 2208
> Mobile: (410) 241-7006
> Fax: (410) 685-5653
> Email: <mailto:DFrye at nfb.org>DFrye at nfb.org
> Web Address: <http://www.nfb.org/>www.nfb.org
> "Voice of the Nation's Blind"
> _______________________________________________
> bllaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for bllaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rwayne1%40nyc.rr.com


From dandrews at visi.com  Tue Jun 16 00:15:50 2009
From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews)
Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 19:15:50 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
In-Reply-To: <003401c9ed73$597ce8b0$0401a8c0@computer>
References: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6BF01001@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local>
	<BAY105-DAV3286CB50FCFD6FE77B90ABB410@phx.gbl>
	<4a354d03.86c3f10a.0d1b.4f44@mx.google.com>
	<8890DEF2DAEF4AC89881B5750993217B@notebook>
	<003401c9ed73$597ce8b0$0401a8c0@computer>
Message-ID: <auto-000106465133@mailfront2.g2host.com>

I understand your frustration with non-legal answers.  And ... your 
plea is basically a good one.  However, as the list owner, and 
moderator, I will ask one question and make one statement.  First, 
how would you propose I restrict the list to lawyers and legal 
types?  Should you send me a copy of your diploma?

secondly, some legal types here have and do ask technical questions 
-- partially setting the tone for the list.

David Andrews

At 11:40 PM 6/14/2009, you wrote:
>Bryan,
>
>You really need to learn a little tact.  She was looking for a work-around
>to an accommodation issue, not a tech solution to what she needed.
>
>Frankly, I am getting really tired of the non-attorney participants on this
>list chiming in on law (or bar exam) issues.  Is this or is it not a list
>for blind lawyers and law related to blind related issues?  If so, why are
>the attorneys (or law students) on this list constantly assaulted with
>flaming comments that neither answer legal questions nor promote the
>practice of law with blind attorneys?  Over the past few weeks, I have
>exercised my delete key more often than in the past due to the high email
>traffic related neither to the practice of law nor to legal issues related
>to blind plaintiffs/defendants.
>
>I respectfully ask that this loosy-goosy monitoring of this list serve be
>tightened.  I am frankly tired of receiving emails containing flames from
>non-attorneys discussing non-legal topics.  It is a waste of time and an
>annoyance.  I, as a practicing attorney, am less inclined to post a query to
>this list because I don't have the time or patience to deal with the replies
>coming from judgmental, non-legal participants in this list.
>
>Either blind attorneys/law students have a forum on blindnet, or they do
>not.
>
>Craig
>
>
>Craig Borne
>Baltimore, Maryland
>"A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial
>appearance of being right, and raises at first a formidable outcry in
>defense of custom."  --Thomas Paine, Common Sense



From dandrews at visi.com  Tue Jun 16 00:17:57 2009
From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews)
Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 19:17:57 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
In-Reply-To: <CC352DD9A7374E5BA8102F5D397452E7@notebook>
References: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6BF01001@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local>
	<BAY105-DAV3286CB50FCFD6FE77B90ABB410@phx.gbl>
	<4a354d03.86c3f10a.0d1b.4f44@mx.google.com>
	<8890DEF2DAEF4AC89881B5750993217B@notebook>
	<003401c9ed73$597ce8b0$0401a8c0@computer>
	<648DEB12A4E24197B6F89FF803E84BF6@notebook>
	<004801c9ed7e$82fb2890$0401a8c0@computer>
	<CC352DD9A7374E5BA8102F5D397452E7@notebook>
Message-ID: <auto-000103448916@mailfront1.g2host.com>

This thread needs to end now.

David Andrews, Moderator

At 01:29 AM 6/15/2009, you wrote:
>ok i guess it's the borne supremacy
>
>sorry to continue this useless post.
>i don't claim to know law and don't know you so i don't know how i 
>am considered your colleague.
>obviously you are one of the people that think your way is the only way
>you obviously can't tell the difference of saying someone is dumb or 
>a concept is thought of as dumb
>i am always professional when dealing with clients or an agency and 
>i don't feel it necessary to always type as if i'm wearing a suit 
>but feel free to pull that tie a couple inches tighter.
>realize that people offer opinions and hit delete if you don't like it.
>
>Bryan Schulz
>The BEST Solution
>www.best-acts.com
>
>----- Original Message ----- From: "Craig Borne" <cdborne at gmail.com>
>To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 12:59 AM
>Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
>
>
>>First of all, my name is not "Bud."
>>
>>Second, your tech strategy did not take into account what she proposed to do
>>with the computer after its use.
>>
>>Third, I appreciate your opinion as to my electronic and computer needs, but
>>I frankly don't see where you get off telling me what my courtroom demeanor
>>will or will not be.  If you stick to your expertise, you may do well.
>>However, telling someone that they are "dumb" for proposing a solution is
>>tactless at the least and arrogant at best.  I certainly hope you don't
>>treat your paying clients the same way you treat your "colleagues."
>>
>>I have had comments with you in the past, and frankly, I don't see how you
>>keep clients if you address them in the same rude manner that you address
>>fello Federationists.
>>
>>Craig
>>
>>
>>
>>Craig Borne
>>Baltimore, Maryland
>>"A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial
>>appearance of being right, and raises at first a formidable outcry in
>>defense of custom."  --Thomas Paine, Common Sense
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>Behalf Of Bryan Schulz
>>Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 1:13 AM
>>To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>>Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
>>
>>bud,
>>
>>i gave a solution to her problem that would have saved her a good $300.
>>she can do what ever she wants, get it solved or continue to battle the
>>testing official.
>>if you don't like my tact or attitude, that's probably mild to the courtroom
>>
>>and you'll be shark bait for the opposition.
>>
>>Bryan Schulz
>>The BEST Solution
>>www.best-acts.com
>>
>>----- Original Message ----- From: "Craig Borne" <cdborne at gmail.com>
>>To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 11:40 PM
>>Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
>>
>>
>>>Bryan,
>>>
>>>You really need to learn a little tact.  She was looking for a work-around
>>>to an accommodation issue, not a tech solution to what she needed.
>>>
>>>Frankly, I am getting really tired of the non-attorney participants on
>>>this
>>>list chiming in on law (or bar exam) issues.  Is this or is it not a list
>>>for blind lawyers and law related to blind related issues?  If so, why are
>>>the attorneys (or law students) on this list constantly assaulted with
>>>flaming comments that neither answer legal questions nor promote the
>>>practice of law with blind attorneys?  Over the past few weeks, I have
>>>exercised my delete key more often than in the past due to the high email
>>>traffic related neither to the practice of law nor to legal issues related
>>>to blind plaintiffs/defendants.
>>>
>>>I respectfully ask that this loosy-goosy monitoring of this list serve be
>>>tightened.  I am frankly tired of receiving emails containing flames from
>>>non-attorneys discussing non-legal topics.  It is a waste of time and an
>>>annoyance.  I, as a practicing attorney, am less inclined to post a query
>>>to
>>>this list because I don't have the time or patience to deal with the
>>>replies
>>>coming from judgmental, non-legal participants in this list.
>>>
>>>Either blind attorneys/law students have a forum on blindnet, or they do
>>>not.
>>>
>>>Craig
>>>
>>>
>>>Craig Borne
>>>Baltimore, Maryland
>>>"A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial
>>>appearance of being right, and raises at first a formidable outcry in
>>>defense of custom."  --Thomas Paine, Common Sense
>>>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>Behalf Of Bryan Schulz
>>>Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 6:51 PM
>>>To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>>>Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
>>>
>>>Hi,
>>>
>>>DUMB!
>>>buy another 2.5" laptop hard drive and a thin sata to usb enclosure.
>>>then use casper to clone your drive to the second hard drive as it is free
>>>for 30 days.
>>>then uninstall everything you have to in order to comply with the testing
>>>rules.
>>>after the test, swap the hard drives as the new one will most likely have
>>>much more capacity and you could then use the original smaller drive in
>>>the
>>>usb enclosure for extra storage.
>>>the new drive and enclosure will cost about $80.
>>>
>>>Bryan Schulz
>>>The BEST Solution
>>>www.best-acts.com
>>>
>>>----- Original Message ----- From: "Angie Matney" <angie.matney at gmail.com>
>>>To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 2:18 PM
>>>Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
>>>
>>>
>>>>For those who are lucky enough to be able to use a laptop on the essays,
>>>>I
>>>>have a thought. If I am ultimately granted this accommodation, I expect
>>>>the
>>>>Board will ask me to wipe my computer clean. I believe that, instead of
>>>>gutting my computer (and then worrying that I have inadvertently left
>>>>something on there that shouldn't be there), I am going to buy a second
>>>>netbook for use on the bar. A netbook costs around $400. I might buy one
>>>>just like the one I am using now. I can always sell it at a discount
>>>>after
>>>>I'm done. (Then again, I might keep it and turn it into a linux
>>>>machine...but that''s a topic of discussion for another list.) Current
>>>>netbooks comply with the technical requirements that Virginia has for
>>>>laptops. Also, the batter ycan last for an entire day of testing without
>>>>needing to be recharged.
>>>>
>>>>This is not exactly the cheapest solution, but I believe it's what I will
>>>>do
>>>>it I need a clean computer.
>>>>
>>>>Angie
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>blindlaw mailing list
>>>>blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>blindlaw:
>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b.schulz%40sbcglob
>>>al.net
>>>
>>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>blindlaw mailing list
>>>blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>blindlaw:
>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdborne%40gmail.co
>>>m
>>>
>>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>blindlaw mailing list
>>>blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>blindlaw:
>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b.schulz%40sbcglob
>>al.net
>>
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>blindlaw mailing list
>>blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>blindlaw:
>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdborne%40gmail.co
>>m
>>
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>blindlaw mailing list
>>blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>for blindlaw:
>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b.schulz%40sbcglobal.net 
>>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>blindlaw mailing list
>blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>for blindlaw:
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40visi.com
>
>
>__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus 
>signature database 4154 (20090615) __________
>
>The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.
>
>http://www.eset.com
>
>



From rjs059 at peoplepc.com  Tue Jun 16 00:39:51 2009
From: rjs059 at peoplepc.com (rjs059 at peoplepc.com)
Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 20:39:51 -0400
Subject: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
References: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6BF01001@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local><BAY105-DAV3286CB50FCFD6FE77B90ABB410@phx.gbl>	<4a354d03.86c3f10a.0d1b.4f44@mx.google.com><8890DEF2DAEF4AC89881B5750993217B@notebook><4a358b99.1ac1f10a.0ed9.4fff@mx.google.com>
	<AE65BAF30FEC46C087D9261D40BE70F6@labarre>
Message-ID: <5D0E4F7B8A144BBCBD6B21A5B4C6CFFB@rjige047kjawst>

I totally agree with scott on this point. RJ
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Scott C. LaBarre" <slabarre at labarrelaw.com>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 2:40 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied


Greetings:

It is absolutely unacceptable to call anyone or anyone's ideas "dumb" or any
other such term!!  The next such eppisode of same will be met with immediate
removal from this list.  It is also accurate to note that when we have had
such troubles in the past, it almost always comes from list members who are
not attorneys, legal professionals, or law students.  We are strongly
considering the idea of  limiting this list to those in the legal profession
or actively seeking admission thereto.

Scott C. LaBarre, Esq.
President
National Association of Blind Lawyers

LaBarre Law Offices P.C.
1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918
Denver, Colorado 80222
303 504-5979 (voice)
303 757-3640 (fax)
slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail)
www.labarrelaw.com (website)

CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and privileged
information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read,
copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in
error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or slabarre at labarrelaw.com,
and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any attachments
are covered by the Electronic
Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Angie Matney" <angie.matney at gmail.com>
To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 5:45 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied


> Also, using my strategy will enable me to take my fully operational
> computer
> with me for use in the evenings. I fully admit this is not the cheapest
> way
> to go, but there is no call for you to be rude about it. Simply don't do
> as
> I have suggested. Post your own ideas and refrain from junior-high-school
> dialogue.
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Bryan Schulz
> Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 6:51 PM
> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
>
> Hi,
>
> DUMB!
> buy another 2.5" laptop hard drive and a thin sata to usb enclosure.
> then use casper to clone your drive to the second hard drive as it is free
> for 30 days.
> then uninstall everything you have to in order to comply with the testing
> rules.
> after the test, swap the hard drives as the new one will most likely have
> much more capacity and you could then use the original smaller drive in
> the
> usb enclosure for extra storage.
> the new drive and enclosure will cost about $80.
>
> Bryan Schulz
> The BEST Solution
> www.best-acts.com
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Angie Matney" <angie.matney at gmail.com>
> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 2:18 PM
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
>
>
>> For those who are lucky enough to be able to use a laptop on the essays,
>> I
>> have a thought. If I am ultimately granted this accommodation, I expect
>> the
>> Board will ask me to wipe my computer clean. I believe that, instead of
>> gutting my computer (and then worrying that I have inadvertently left
>> something on there that shouldn't be there), I am going to buy a second
>> netbook for use on the bar. A netbook costs around $400. I might buy one
>> just like the one I am using now. I can always sell it at a discount
>> after
>> I'm done. (Then again, I might keep it and turn it into a linux
>> machine...but that''s a topic of discussion for another list.) Current
>> netbooks comply with the technical requirements that Virginia has for
>> laptops. Also, the batter ycan last for an entire day of testing without
>> needing to be recharged.
>>
>> This is not exactly the cheapest solution, but I believe it's what I will
>> do
>> it I need a clean computer.
>>
>> Angie
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindlaw:
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b.schulz%40sbcglob
> al.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie.matney%40gma
> il.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/slabarre%40labarrelaw.com
>



_______________________________________________
blindlaw mailing list
blindlaw at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
blindlaw:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rjs059%40peoplepc.com


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG.
Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 270.12.69/2176 - Release Date: 6/14/2009 
5:54 PM



From dandrews at visi.com  Tue Jun 16 02:32:38 2009
From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews)
Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 21:32:38 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] About blindlaw,
 was Request for laptop during  essay section denied
In-Reply-To: <8A243E22-60A1-4FE1-A617-013133B39155@zufelt.ca>
References: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6BF01001@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local>
	<BAY105-DAV3286CB50FCFD6FE77B90ABB410@phx.gbl>
	<4a354d03.86c3f10a.0d1b.4f44@mx.google.com>
	<8890DEF2DAEF4AC89881B5750993217B@notebook>
	<003401c9ed73$597ce8b0$0401a8c0@computer>
	<BAY105-DAV32F01823D9B696961F629BB3E0@phx.gbl>
	<8A243E22-60A1-4FE1-A617-013133B39155@zufelt.ca>
Message-ID: <auto-000106473032@mailfront2.g2host.com>

How would you guarantee that everyone on the list was a "legal professional?"

Dave

At 12:28 PM 6/15/2009, you wrote:
>Good afternoon,
>
>Perhaps people would benefit from a second list for law professionals
>only?
>
>About blindlaw:
>
>The purpose of Blind Law is for the discussion of legal matters and
>topics directly related to blind people and their blindness. This
>discussion area will
>be directly monitored by members of the National Association of Blind
>Lawyers, a division of the National Federation of the Blind.
>
>This area is also intended as a means for the members of the
>National Association of Blind Lawyers to stay in contact with each
>other.
>
>HTH,
>Everett
>
>
>On 15-Jun-09, at 10:46 AM, Rod Alcidonis wrote:
>
>>Craig:
>>
>>Good comments. There was a time when there was talk for the list to
>>remain only for blind attorneys, and I opposed it. Granted, I was
>>not a law student then, but I now see why this would have been the
>>best idea. There is a music production listserv called Midimag, it
>>is so well monitored that there aren't any posts that is not music
>>related. Folks usually don't get to post more than one off message
>>on the list.
>>
>>Rod Alcidonis, J.D.
>>C. 718-704-4651
>>roddj12 at hotmail.com
>>
>>----- Original Message ----- From: "Craig Borne" <cdborne at gmail.com>
>>To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 12:40 AM
>>Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
>>
>>
>>>Bryan,
>>>
>>>You really need to learn a little tact.  She was looking for a work- around
>>>to an accommodation issue, not a tech solution to what she needed.
>>>
>>>Frankly, I am getting really tired of the non-attorney participants
>>>on this
>>>list chiming in on law (or bar exam) issues.  Is this or is it not
>>>a list
>>>for blind lawyers and law related to blind related issues?  If so,
>>>why are
>>>the attorneys (or law students) on this list constantly assaulted
>>>with
>>>flaming comments that neither answer legal questions nor promote the
>>>practice of law with blind attorneys?  Over the past few weeks, I
>>>have
>>>exercised my delete key more often than in the past due to the high
>>>email
>>>traffic related neither to the practice of law nor to legal issues
>>>related
>>>to blind plaintiffs/defendants.
>>>
>>>I respectfully ask that this loosy-goosy monitoring of this list
>>>serve be
>>>tightened.  I am frankly tired of receiving emails containing
>>>flames from
>>>non-attorneys discussing non-legal topics.  It is a waste of time
>>>and an
>>>annoyance.  I, as a practicing attorney, am less inclined to post a
>>>query to
>>>this list because I don't have the time or patience to deal with
>>>the replies
>>>coming from judgmental, non-legal participants in this list.
>>>
>>>Either blind attorneys/law students have a forum on blindnet, or
>>>they do
>>>not.
>>>
>>>Craig
>>>
>>>
>>>Craig Borne
>>>Baltimore, Maryland
>>>"A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial
>>>appearance of being right, and raises at first a formidable outcry in
>>>defense of custom."  --Thomas Paine, Common Sense
>>>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw- bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>Behalf Of Bryan Schulz
>>>Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 6:51 PM
>>>To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>>>Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section
>>>denied
>>>
>>>Hi,
>>>
>>>DUMB!
>>>buy another 2.5" laptop hard drive and a thin sata to usb enclosure.
>>>then use casper to clone your drive to the second hard drive as it
>>>is free
>>>for 30 days.
>>>then uninstall everything you have to in order to comply with the
>>>testing
>>>rules.
>>>after the test, swap the hard drives as the new one will most
>>>likely have
>>>much more capacity and you could then use the original smaller
>>>drive in the
>>>usb enclosure for extra storage.
>>>the new drive and enclosure will cost about $80.
>>>
>>>Bryan Schulz
>>>The BEST Solution
>>>www.best-acts.com
>>>
>>>----- Original Message ----- From: "Angie Matney" <angie.matney at gmail.com >
>>>To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 2:18 PM
>>>Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section
>>>denied
>>>
>>>
>>>>For those who are lucky enough to be able to use a laptop on the
>>>>essays, I
>>>>have a thought. If I am ultimately granted this accommodation, I
>>>>expect
>>>>the
>>>>Board will ask me to wipe my computer clean. I believe that,
>>>>instead of
>>>>gutting my computer (and then worrying that I have inadvertently
>>>>left
>>>>something on there that shouldn't be there), I am going to buy a
>>>>second
>>>>netbook for use on the bar. A netbook costs around $400. I might
>>>>buy one
>>>>just like the one I am using now. I can always sell it at a
>>>>discount after
>>>>I'm done. (Then again, I might keep it and turn it into a linux
>>>>machine...but that''s a topic of discussion for another list.)
>>>>Current
>>>>netbooks comply with the technical requirements that Virginia has
>>>>for
>>>>laptops. Also, the batter ycan last for an entire day of testing
>>>>without
>>>>needing to be recharged.
>>>>
>>>>This is not exactly the cheapest solution, but I believe it's what
>>>>I will
>>>>do
>>>>it I need a clean computer.
>>>>
>>>>Angie
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>blindlaw mailing list
>>>>blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>for
>>>>blindlaw:
>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b.schulz%40sbcglob
>>>al.net
>>>
>>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>blindlaw mailing list
>>>blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>blindlaw:
>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdborne%40gmail.co
>>>m
>>>
>>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>blindlaw mailing list
>>>blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>for blindlaw:
>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail.com
>>
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>blindlaw mailing list
>>blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>for blindlaw:
>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/everett%40zufelt.ca
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>blindlaw mailing list
>blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>for blindlaw:
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40visi.com
>
>
>__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus 
>signature database 4156 (20090615) __________
>
>The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.
>
>http://www.eset.com
>
>



From bspiry at comcast.net  Tue Jun 16 05:11:25 2009
From: bspiry at comcast.net (Bill Spiry)
Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 22:11:25 -0700
Subject: [blindlaw] Update on essay situation
In-Reply-To: <4a365bba.03015a0a.2f47.005c@mx.google.com>
References: <4a365bba.03015a0a.2f47.005c@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <001a01c9ee40$ea7f03c0$bf7d0b40$@net>

Encouraging news. I hope it comes together.

-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Angie Matney
Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 7:34 AM
To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'
Subject: [blindlaw] Update on essay situation

Hello everyone,

 

I had a very positive conversation with someone in the Board's office this
morning. I don't have a final answer yet, but this person was very willing
to listen to my concerns and the alternatives I proposed. Hopefully, I will
be able to give you all a very positive update in the near future.

 

Thanks to all of you who related your bar-exam experiences.

 

Angie

 

 

_______________________________________________
blindlaw mailing list
blindlaw at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
blindlaw:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/bspiry%40comcast.n
et



From joramsey at cox.net  Tue Jun 16 06:53:54 2009
From: joramsey at cox.net (John )
Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 02:53:54 -0400
Subject: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
In-Reply-To: <5D0E4F7B8A144BBCBD6B21A5B4C6CFFB@rjige047kjawst>
Message-ID: <AD3A393697E345548D9A2ADE7652A59E@noneeb869fea9a>

Hello Scott,
I don't want to sound like some kind of censor, but I think that the recent
thread is a fine example of why the law students took the initiative to
create their own list some time ago. Unfortunately the same law student
specific threads have found their way back onto this list and it seems like
all we really ever end up talking about is the LSAT or whether or not the
States will allow a laptop to take the essay portion of the bar.
I honestly can say that I never had an issue with LSAC and in my experience
if you adequately state your accommodation needs they are pretty good about
providing reasonable accommodations. I did have my share of grief with the
Florida Board of Bar Examiners, but they too made reasonable accommodations.
That being said, it is rather tiring to listen to the same old threads about
the LSAT. That is just my opinion and I do know that I have the option to
unsubscribe.
Thanks,
John

John A. Ramsey Jr., Esq.

Gainesville, FL 32609

Phone: (352) 505-6642



-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of rjs059 at peoplepc.com
Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 8:40 PM
To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied


I totally agree with scott on this point. RJ
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Scott C. LaBarre" <slabarre at labarrelaw.com>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 2:40 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied


Greetings:

It is absolutely unacceptable to call anyone or anyone's ideas "dumb" or any
other such term!!  The next such eppisode of same will be met with immediate
removal from this list.  It is also accurate to note that when we have had
such troubles in the past, it almost always comes from list members who are
not attorneys, legal professionals, or law students.  We are strongly
considering the idea of  limiting this list to those in the legal profession
or actively seeking admission thereto.

Scott C. LaBarre, Esq.
President
National Association of Blind Lawyers

LaBarre Law Offices P.C.
1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918
Denver, Colorado 80222
303 504-5979 (voice)
303 757-3640 (fax)
slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail)
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CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and privileged
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----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Angie Matney" <angie.matney at gmail.com>
To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 5:45 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied


> Also, using my strategy will enable me to take my fully operational 
> computer with me for use in the evenings. I fully admit this is not 
> the cheapest way
> to go, but there is no call for you to be rude about it. Simply don't do
> as
> I have suggested. Post your own ideas and refrain from junior-high-school
> dialogue.
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] 
> On Behalf Of Bryan Schulz
> Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 6:51 PM
> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
>
> Hi,
>
> DUMB!
> buy another 2.5" laptop hard drive and a thin sata to usb enclosure. 
> then use casper to clone your drive to the second hard drive as it is 
> free for 30 days. then uninstall everything you have to in order to 
> comply with the testing rules.
> after the test, swap the hard drives as the new one will most likely have
> much more capacity and you could then use the original smaller drive in
> the
> usb enclosure for extra storage.
> the new drive and enclosure will cost about $80.
>
> Bryan Schulz
> The BEST Solution
> www.best-acts.com
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Angie Matney" <angie.matney at gmail.com>
> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 2:18 PM
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
>
>
>> For those who are lucky enough to be able to use a laptop on the 
>> essays, I have a thought. If I am ultimately granted this 
>> accommodation, I expect the
>> Board will ask me to wipe my computer clean. I believe that, instead of
>> gutting my computer (and then worrying that I have inadvertently left
>> something on there that shouldn't be there), I am going to buy a second
>> netbook for use on the bar. A netbook costs around $400. I might buy one
>> just like the one I am using now. I can always sell it at a discount
>> after
>> I'm done. (Then again, I might keep it and turn it into a linux
>> machine...but that''s a topic of discussion for another list.) Current
>> netbooks comply with the technical requirements that Virginia has for
>> laptops. Also, the batter ycan last for an entire day of testing without
>> needing to be recharged.
>>
>> This is not exactly the cheapest solution, but I believe it's what I 
>> will do it I need a clean computer.
>>
>> Angie
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org 
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindlaw:
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b.schulz%40s
> bcglob
> al.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org 
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindlaw: 
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie.matney
> %40gma
> il.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org 
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindlaw: 
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/slabarre%40l
> abarrelaw.com
>



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From everett at zufelt.ca  Tue Jun 16 07:29:37 2009
From: everett at zufelt.ca (E.J. Zufelt)
Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 03:29:37 -0400
Subject: [blindlaw] About blindlaw,
	was Request for laptop during  essay section denied
In-Reply-To: <auto-000106473032@mailfront2.g2host.com>
References: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6BF01001@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local>
	<BAY105-DAV3286CB50FCFD6FE77B90ABB410@phx.gbl>
	<4a354d03.86c3f10a.0d1b.4f44@mx.google.com>
	<8890DEF2DAEF4AC89881B5750993217B@notebook>
	<003401c9ed73$597ce8b0$0401a8c0@computer>
	<BAY105-DAV32F01823D9B696961F629BB3E0@phx.gbl>
	<8A243E22-60A1-4FE1-A617-013133B39155@zufelt.ca>
	<auto-000106473032@mailfront2.g2host.com>
Message-ID: <41B65A67-E36D-4802-B016-861237FBB88A@zufelt.ca>

Good evening Dave,

The list would have to be private and perhaps someone from NABL would  
have to confirm their membership.  NABL could determine what "legal  
professional" means: lawyer, paralegal, etc.

I myself would not be considered a legal professional.  I have  
completed only one year of law school.  I only suggested the idea  
because this has come up a few times since I joined the list.

HTH,
Everett

Follow me on Twitter
http://twitter.com/ezufelt

View my LinkedIn Profile
http://www.linkedin.com/in/ezufelt





On 15-Jun-09, at 10:32 PM, David Andrews wrote:

> How would you guarantee that everyone on the list was a "legal  
> professional?"
>
> Dave
>
> At 12:28 PM 6/15/2009, you wrote:
>> Good afternoon,
>>
>> Perhaps people would benefit from a second list for law professionals
>> only?
>>
>> About blindlaw:
>>
>> The purpose of Blind Law is for the discussion of legal matters and
>> topics directly related to blind people and their blindness. This
>> discussion area will
>> be directly monitored by members of the National Association of Blind
>> Lawyers, a division of the National Federation of the Blind.
>>
>> This area is also intended as a means for the members of the
>> National Association of Blind Lawyers to stay in contact with each
>> other.
>>
>> HTH,
>> Everett
>>
>>
>> On 15-Jun-09, at 10:46 AM, Rod Alcidonis wrote:
>>
>>> Craig:
>>>
>>> Good comments. There was a time when there was talk for the list to
>>> remain only for blind attorneys, and I opposed it. Granted, I was
>>> not a law student then, but I now see why this would have been the
>>> best idea. There is a music production listserv called Midimag, it
>>> is so well monitored that there aren't any posts that is not music
>>> related. Folks usually don't get to post more than one off message
>>> on the list.
>>>
>>> Rod Alcidonis, J.D.
>>> C. 718-704-4651
>>> roddj12 at hotmail.com
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Craig Borne" <cdborne at gmail.com>
>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 12:40 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section  
>>> denied
>>>
>>>
>>>> Bryan,
>>>>
>>>> You really need to learn a little tact.  She was looking for a  
>>>> work- around
>>>> to an accommodation issue, not a tech solution to what she needed.
>>>>
>>>> Frankly, I am getting really tired of the non-attorney participants
>>>> on this
>>>> list chiming in on law (or bar exam) issues.  Is this or is it not
>>>> a list
>>>> for blind lawyers and law related to blind related issues?  If so,
>>>> why are
>>>> the attorneys (or law students) on this list constantly assaulted
>>>> with
>>>> flaming comments that neither answer legal questions nor promote  
>>>> the
>>>> practice of law with blind attorneys?  Over the past few weeks, I
>>>> have
>>>> exercised my delete key more often than in the past due to the high
>>>> email
>>>> traffic related neither to the practice of law nor to legal issues
>>>> related
>>>> to blind plaintiffs/defendants.
>>>>
>>>> I respectfully ask that this loosy-goosy monitoring of this list
>>>> serve be
>>>> tightened.  I am frankly tired of receiving emails containing
>>>> flames from
>>>> non-attorneys discussing non-legal topics.  It is a waste of time
>>>> and an
>>>> annoyance.  I, as a practicing attorney, am less inclined to post a
>>>> query to
>>>> this list because I don't have the time or patience to deal with
>>>> the replies
>>>> coming from judgmental, non-legal participants in this list.
>>>>
>>>> Either blind attorneys/law students have a forum on blindnet, or
>>>> they do
>>>> not.
>>>>
>>>> Craig
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Craig Borne
>>>> Baltimore, Maryland
>>>> "A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial
>>>> appearance of being right, and raises at first a formidable  
>>>> outcry in
>>>> defense of custom."  --Thomas Paine, Common Sense
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw- bounces at nfbnet.org 
>>>> ] On
>>>> Behalf Of Bryan Schulz
>>>> Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 6:51 PM
>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section
>>>> denied
>>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> DUMB!
>>>> buy another 2.5" laptop hard drive and a thin sata to usb  
>>>> enclosure.
>>>> then use casper to clone your drive to the second hard drive as it
>>>> is free
>>>> for 30 days.
>>>> then uninstall everything you have to in order to comply with the
>>>> testing
>>>> rules.
>>>> after the test, swap the hard drives as the new one will most
>>>> likely have
>>>> much more capacity and you could then use the original smaller
>>>> drive in the
>>>> usb enclosure for extra storage.
>>>> the new drive and enclosure will cost about $80.
>>>>
>>>> Bryan Schulz
>>>> The BEST Solution
>>>> www.best-acts.com
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Angie Matney" <angie.matney at gmail.com 
>>>>  >
>>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 2:18 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section
>>>> denied
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> For those who are lucky enough to be able to use a laptop on the
>>>>> essays, I
>>>>> have a thought. If I am ultimately granted this accommodation, I
>>>>> expect
>>>>> the
>>>>> Board will ask me to wipe my computer clean. I believe that,
>>>>> instead of
>>>>> gutting my computer (and then worrying that I have inadvertently
>>>>> left
>>>>> something on there that shouldn't be there), I am going to buy a
>>>>> second
>>>>> netbook for use on the bar. A netbook costs around $400. I might
>>>>> buy one
>>>>> just like the one I am using now. I can always sell it at a
>>>>> discount after
>>>>> I'm done. (Then again, I might keep it and turn it into a linux
>>>>> machine...but that''s a topic of discussion for another list.)
>>>>> Current
>>>>> netbooks comply with the technical requirements that Virginia has
>>>>> for
>>>>> laptops. Also, the batter ycan last for an entire day of testing
>>>>> without
>>>>> needing to be recharged.
>>>>>
>>>>> This is not exactly the cheapest solution, but I believe it's what
>>>>> I will
>>>>> do
>>>>> it I need a clean computer.
>>>>>
>>>>> Angie
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>> for
>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b.schulz%40sbcglob
>>>> al.net
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info  
>>>> for
>>>> blindlaw:
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdborne%40gmail.co
>>>> m
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>> for blindlaw:
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail.com
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>> for blindlaw:
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/everett%40zufelt.ca
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info  
>> for blindlaw:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40visi.com
>>
>>
>> __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus  
>> signature database 4156 (20090615) __________
>>
>> The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.
>>
>> http://www.eset.com
>>
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info  
> for blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/everett%40zufelt.ca



From DFrye at nfb.org  Tue Jun 16 12:49:15 2009
From: DFrye at nfb.org (Frye, Dan)
Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 08:49:15 -0400
Subject: [blindlaw] [bllaw] International Copyright Concerns for
	BlindReaders
In-Reply-To: <20090615234813.rwayne1@nyc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6BF4FA55@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local>

Ray:
My understanding is that the issue was preserved for revisiting during
the next gathering of this body scheduled for sometime in late fall,
November I believe. This was regarded as a success in the international
context, since originally the effort was to have the topic entirely
removed from further discussion. If I receive any additional information
about how interested people can help advocate on this matter prior to
the next gathering, I'll pass it along. Chris Danielsen also follows
this issue fairly closely.

Dan Frye 

-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
On Behalf Of ray wayne
Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 7:48 PM
To: david.andrews at nfbnet.org; blindlaw at nfbnet.org
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] [bllaw] International Copyright Concerns for
BlindReaders

Does anyone have updated information on the status of this matter? My
chapter members received this e-mail, and our meeting is this Wednesday.
The question will invariably come up. 
Thanks in advance. 
Ray Wayne
PS: Please know that I am requesting information only-I do not, REPEAT,
DO NOT, wish to instigate a flurry of commentary about the Obama
administration! 


----- Original Message -----
From: "Frye, Dan" <DFrye at nfb.org> (by way of David Andrews
<dandrews at visi.com>)
To: david.andrews at nfbnet.org
Date: Friday, May 29, 2009 17:42:27
Subject: [bllaw] International Copyright Concerns for Blind Readers

>
>
> 
> Colleagues:
> 
> I am circulating a lengthy post regarding efforts to limit an 
> international treaty that would allow for rules that parallel existing

> domestic exceptions to the copyright law for blind people to govern in

> an international context. Please help bring pressure on authorities by

> letting President Obama know that these provisions would be useful, 
> and ask him to direct his representatives to abandon their hostile 
> posture toward aspects of the treaty that would be helpful. You may 
> Email your concerns to:
> 
> <mailto:President at whitehouse.gov>President at whitehouse.gov
> 
> The post follows:
> 
> 
> Right now, in Geneva, at the UN's World Intellectual Property 
> Organization, history is being made. For the first time in WIPO 
> history, the body that creates the world's copyright treaties is 
> attempting to write a copyright treaty dedicated to protecting the 
> interests of copyright users, not just copyright owners.
> 
> At issue is a treaty to protect the rights of blind people and people 
> with other disabilities that affect reading (people with dyslexia, 
> people who are paralyzed or lack arms or hands for turning pages).
> This should be a slam dunk: who wouldn't want a harmonized system of 
> copyright exceptions that ensure that it's possible for disabled 
> people to get access to the written word?
> 
> The USA, that's who. The Obama administration'
> 
> US negotiators have joined with a rogue's gallery of rich country 
> trade representatives to oppose protection for blind people. Other 
> nations and regions opposing the rights of blind people include Canada

> and the EU.
> 
> Update: Also opposing rights for disabled people: Australia, New 
> Zealand, the Vatican and Norway.
> 
> Activists at WIPO are desperate to get the word out. They're tweeting 
> madly from the negotiation (technically called the 18th session of the

> Standing Committee on Copyright and Related Rights) publishing 
> editorials on the Huffington Post, etc.
> 
> Here's where you come in: this has to get wide exposure, to get cast 
> as broadly as possible, so that it will find its way into the ears of 
> the obscure power-brokers who control national trade-negotiators.
> 
> I don't often ask readers to do things like this, but please, forward 
> this post to people you know in the US, Canada and the EU, and ask 
> them to reblog, tweet, and spread the word, especially to government 
> officials and activists who work on disabled rights. We know that WIPO

> negotiations can be overwhelmed by citizen activists -- that's how we 
> killed the Broadcast Treaty negotiation a few years back -- and with 
> your help, we can make history, and create a world where copyright law

> protects the public interest.
> 
> I am attending a meeting in Geneva of the World Intellectual Property 
> Organization (WIPO). This evening the United States government, in 
> combination with other high income countries in "Group B" is seeking 
> to block an agreement to discuss a treaty for persons who are blind or

> have other reading disabilities.
> 
> The proposal for a treaty is supported by a large number of civil 
> society NGOs, the World Blind Union, the National Federation of the 
> Blind in the US, the International DAISY Consortium, Recording for the

> Blind & Dyslexic (RFB&D), Bookshare.Org, and groups representing 
> persons with reading disabilities all around the world.
> 
> The main aim of the treaty is to allow the cross-border import and 
> export of digital copies of books and other copyrighted works in 
> formats that are accessible to persons who are blind, visually 
> impaired, dyslexic or have other reading disabilities, using special 
> devices that present text as refreshable braille, computer generated 
> text to speech, or large type. These works, which are expensive to 
> make, are typically created under national exceptions to copyright law

> that are specifically written to benefit persons with disabilities.
> 
> ...
> 
> The opposition from the United States and other high income countries 
> is due to intense lobbying from a large group of publishers that 
> oppose a "paradigm shift,"
> 
> where treaties would protect consumer interests, rather than expand 
> rights for copyright owners.
> 
> The Obama Administration was lobbied heavily on this issue, including 
> meetings with high level White House officials. Assurances coming into

> the negotiations this week that things were going in the right 
> direction have turned out to be false, as the United States delegation

> has basically read from a script written by lobbyists for publishers, 
> extolling the virtues of market based solutions, ignoring mountains of

> evidence of a "book famine" and the insane legal barriers to share 
> works.
> 
> Obama Joins Group to Block Treaty for Blind and Other Reading 
> Disabilities COPYRIGHT EXCEPTIONS AND LIMITATIONS Twitter feed for 
> #sccr18
> 
> 
> 
> With Kind Regards,
> 
> 
> ininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininin
> ininininininininin*
> Daniel B. Frye, J.D.
> Associate Editor
> The Braille Monitor
> National Federation of the Blind
> Office of the President
> 1800 Johnson Street
> Baltimore, Maryland 21230
> Telephone: (410) 659-9314 Ext. 2208
> Mobile: (410) 241-7006
> Fax: (410) 685-5653
> Email: <mailto:DFrye at nfb.org>DFrye at nfb.org
> Web Address: <http://www.nfb.org/>www.nfb.org "Voice of the Nation's 
> Blind"
> _______________________________________________
> bllaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
bllaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rwayne1%40ny
> c.rr.com



From jsorozco at gmail.com  Tue Jun 16 13:58:35 2009
From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco)
Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 09:58:35 -0400
Subject: [blindlaw] Purpose of the List
Message-ID: <1146FEAEC59240259CC39ED6D409B00D@Rufus>

Hello all,

For whatever it's worth, I appreciate the mix of attorneys and non-attorneys
on the list.  True, non-attorneys should be mindful that our opinions will
not always be appreciated by those actually practicing law, but practicing
attorneys should also learn patience in dealing with what I think is
well-intentioned thoughts by those of us in other professions.  Ultimately,
I think it great that members have a place where they can pose legal
questions for attorneys and even better that attorneys have a place to give
and take professional advice to their colleagues.  Perhaps both sides just
need to think about what they post before they post?  Non-attorneys should
be conscious of the fact that the list is primarily for attorneys and their
needs and that our other questions will be answered as their time allows.

Joe Orozco

"A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the
crowd."--Max Lucado
 

__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 4155 (20090615) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com
 



From stevep.deeley at insightbb.com  Tue Jun 16 14:55:44 2009
From: stevep.deeley at insightbb.com (Steve P. Deeley)
Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 10:55:44 -0400
Subject: [blindlaw] Purpose of the List
In-Reply-To: <1146FEAEC59240259CC39ED6D409B00D@Rufus>
References: <1146FEAEC59240259CC39ED6D409B00D@Rufus>
Message-ID: <9D34C2C91A8941389EE5FE60F1FF7441@StevePC>

You are correct Joe.  We probably need to watch some of the banter.  I'm 
guilty of that as well.  Steve
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Joe Orozco" <jsorozco at gmail.com>
To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 9:58 AM
Subject: [blindlaw] Purpose of the List


> Hello all,
>
> For whatever it's worth, I appreciate the mix of attorneys and 
> non-attorneys
> on the list.  True, non-attorneys should be mindful that our opinions will
> not always be appreciated by those actually practicing law, but practicing
> attorneys should also learn patience in dealing with what I think is
> well-intentioned thoughts by those of us in other professions. 
> Ultimately,
> I think it great that members have a place where they can pose legal
> questions for attorneys and even better that attorneys have a place to 
> give
> and take professional advice to their colleagues.  Perhaps both sides just
> need to think about what they post before they post?  Non-attorneys should
> be conscious of the fact that the list is primarily for attorneys and 
> their
> needs and that our other questions will be answered as their time allows.
>
> Joe Orozco
>
> "A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the
> crowd."--Max Lucado
>
>
> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus 
> signature
> database 4155 (20090615) __________
>
> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>
> http://www.eset.com
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



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Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.73/2180 - Release Date: 06/16/09 
07:41:00



From carter.tjoseph at gmail.com  Tue Jun 16 17:41:02 2009
From: carter.tjoseph at gmail.com (T. Joseph Carter)
Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 10:41:02 -0700
Subject: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
In-Reply-To: <AE65BAF30FEC46C087D9261D40BE70F6@labarre>
References: <4a358b99.1ac1f10a.0ed9.4fff@mx.google.com>
	<AE65BAF30FEC46C087D9261D40BE70F6@labarre>
Message-ID: <20090616174102.GB37098@yumi.bluecherry.net>

Scott,

I truly hope that this will not be found necessary.  Those who are 
not practicing attorneys on this list for the most part appear to 
defer to those who are in matters of legal opinion, regardless of 
whether they are or ever will be law students.

I have little experience by which to judge your observation, having 
joined the list myself only upon considering a career in law.  Yet it 
seems to me the troubles you describe would almost invariably come 
from those who do not defer to those more qualified in the field.

If this list has never seen a student who believes him/herself to 
know everything, I'd be inclined to believe it is only by chance.  
Granted, the probability is greatly reduced by the likelihood that 
such a person wouldn't last long in law school if they maintain such 
an outlook.  *grin*

Joseph

On Mon, Jun 15, 2009 at 12:40:21PM -0600, Scott C. LaBarre wrote:
> Greetings:
>
> It is absolutely unacceptable to call anyone or anyone's ideas "dumb" or 
> any other such term!!  The next such eppisode of same will be met with 
> immediate removal from this list.  It is also accurate to note that when 
> we have had such troubles in the past, it almost always comes from list 
> members who are not attorneys, legal professionals, or law students.  We 
> are strongly considering the idea of  limiting this list to those in the 
> legal profession or actively seeking admission thereto.
>
> Scott C. LaBarre, Esq.
> President
> National Association of Blind Lawyers
>
> LaBarre Law Offices P.C.
> 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918
> Denver, Colorado 80222
> 303 504-5979 (voice)
> 303 757-3640 (fax)
> slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail)
> www.labarrelaw.com (website)
>
> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and 
> privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may 
> not read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this 
> message in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or 
> slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. This 
> message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic
> Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521.
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Angie Matney" 
> <angie.matney at gmail.com>
> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 5:45 PM
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
>
>
>> Also, using my strategy will enable me to take my fully operational  
>> computer
>> with me for use in the evenings. I fully admit this is not the cheapest 
>> way
>> to go, but there is no call for you to be rude about it. Simply don't 
>> do as
>> I have suggested. Post your own ideas and refrain from junior-high-school
>> dialogue.
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf Of Bryan Schulz
>> Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 6:51 PM
>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> DUMB!
>> buy another 2.5" laptop hard drive and a thin sata to usb enclosure.
>> then use casper to clone your drive to the second hard drive as it is free
>> for 30 days.
>> then uninstall everything you have to in order to comply with the testing
>> rules.
>> after the test, swap the hard drives as the new one will most likely have
>> much more capacity and you could then use the original smaller drive in 
>> the
>> usb enclosure for extra storage.
>> the new drive and enclosure will cost about $80.
>>
>> Bryan Schulz
>> The BEST Solution
>> www.best-acts.com
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Angie Matney" 
>> <angie.matney at gmail.com>
>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 2:18 PM
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
>>
>>
>>> For those who are lucky enough to be able to use a laptop on the 
>>> essays, I
>>> have a thought. If I am ultimately granted this accommodation, I expect
>>> the
>>> Board will ask me to wipe my computer clean. I believe that, instead of
>>> gutting my computer (and then worrying that I have inadvertently left
>>> something on there that shouldn't be there), I am going to buy a second
>>> netbook for use on the bar. A netbook costs around $400. I might buy one
>>> just like the one I am using now. I can always sell it at a discount  
>>> after
>>> I'm done. (Then again, I might keep it and turn it into a linux
>>> machine...but that''s a topic of discussion for another list.) Current
>>> netbooks comply with the technical requirements that Virginia has for
>>> laptops. Also, the batter ycan last for an entire day of testing without
>>> needing to be recharged.
>>>
>>> This is not exactly the cheapest solution, but I believe it's what I will
>>> do
>>> it I need a clean computer.
>>>
>>> Angie
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> blindlaw:
>>>
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b.schulz%40sbcglob
>> al.net
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindlaw:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie.matney%40gma
>> il.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for  
>> blindlaw:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/slabarre%40labarrelaw.com
>>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/carter.tjoseph%40gmail.com


From Tim.Ford at cdph.ca.gov  Tue Jun 16 18:00:47 2009
From: Tim.Ford at cdph.ca.gov (Ford, Tim (CDPH-OLS))
Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 11:00:47 -0700
Subject: [blindlaw] Purpose of the List
In-Reply-To: <9D34C2C91A8941389EE5FE60F1FF7441@StevePC>
References: <1146FEAEC59240259CC39ED6D409B00D@Rufus>
	<9D34C2C91A8941389EE5FE60F1FF7441@StevePC>
Message-ID: <839F18076C66C345BD1C0A4ACA67A1F60315BC06@dhsexcmsg12.intra.dhs.ca.gov>

My humble observation is that we have two completely different scenarios
when non-lawyers/law students are participating on this list.

when someone who is not a lawyer or law student is involved, they
sometimes are genuinely asking for advice or guidance, and essentially
it is like a client consultation.  

The other situation is when the person is not interested in our advice,
but is instead interested in a debate on policy or social grounds.  It
is this latter situation that I believe we need to better control,
because it tends to go around in circles, generates a ton of notes,
often turns heated, and is of limited interest or value to those of us
who are interested mainly in the direct legal aspects of life.  

Just my opinion of course, but I think we need to seriously consider how
to help keep the list more towards its intended purpose.  Recently I
have come close to unsubscribing from the list, simply because there is
way too much traffic on tangential or unrelated notes, and it takes too
much time to read through all the strings looking for the pony.

Sincerely,
Tim Ford
 

-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
On Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley
Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 7:56 AM
To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Purpose of the List

You are correct Joe.  We probably need to watch some of the banter.  I'm
guilty of that as well.  Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joe Orozco" <jsorozco at gmail.com>
To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 9:58 AM
Subject: [blindlaw] Purpose of the List


> Hello all,
>
> For whatever it's worth, I appreciate the mix of attorneys and 
> non-attorneys on the list.  True, non-attorneys should be mindful that

> our opinions will not always be appreciated by those actually 
> practicing law, but practicing attorneys should also learn patience in

> dealing with what I think is well-intentioned thoughts by those of us 
> in other professions.
> Ultimately,
> I think it great that members have a place where they can pose legal 
> questions for attorneys and even better that attorneys have a place to

> give and take professional advice to their colleagues.  Perhaps both 
> sides just need to think about what they post before they post?  
> Non-attorneys should be conscious of the fact that the list is 
> primarily for attorneys and their needs and that our other questions 
> will be answered as their time allows.
>
> Joe Orozco
>
> "A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the 
> crowd."--Max Lucado
>
>
> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus 
> signature database 4155 (20090615) __________
>
> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>
> http://www.eset.com
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deele
> y%40insightbb.com


------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------



No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.73/2180 - Release Date:
06/16/09 07:41:00


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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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h.ca.gov


From Gary.Norman at cms.hhs.gov  Tue Jun 16 19:54:52 2009
From: Gary.Norman at cms.hhs.gov (Norman, Gary C. (CMS/CBC))
Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 15:54:52 -0400
Subject: [blindlaw] FYI
Message-ID: <BBA045412218F84A8C4ED7B65BED5EE106A72A3E@AVN3VS002.ees.hhs.gov>

Pasted below is a link to a release about the recent award, which I was
honored to have received at Wright State University in May.

 

http://www.wright.edu/cgi-bin/cm/news.cgi?action=news_item&id=1581


From b75205 at gmail.com  Tue Jun 16 22:16:23 2009
From: b75205 at gmail.com (James Pepper)
Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 17:16:23 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] California Trying E-books in high school
In-Reply-To: <C41B91C8F59E41198D0CF10051401FC0@D3DTZP41>
References: <C41B91C8F59E41198D0CF10051401FC0@D3DTZP41>
Message-ID: <fe5b78280906161516o4951824ay74aeafed0d1e83c9@mail.gmail.com>

They have already started this in Texas.   They are trying to create content
out of the public colleges instead of going to the publishers.  I would
recommend caution on the qualifications of the people who write the
textbooks.

For instance readers and childrens books are laid out with certain
requirements and although they may look like anyone can make them, they are
part of a larger educational plan.  Many people on the state level may try
to cut costs by writing this material themselves and thus the students loose
out on a massive scale. There is a need to keep track of the curriculum and
make sure they are not cutting corners.


James Pepper

From marks at accessingenuity.com  Tue Jun 16 22:39:34 2009
From: marks at accessingenuity.com (Mark Stimson)
Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 15:39:34 -0700
Subject: [blindlaw] [bllaw] International Copyright Concerns
	for	BlindReaders
In-Reply-To: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6BF4FA55@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local>
References: <20090615234813.rwayne1@nyc.rr.com>
	<7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6BF4FA55@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local>
Message-ID: <009101c9eed3$6b37a9d0$41a6fd70$@com>

Hi Ray,
There has been some very good posts and detailed information regarding the
WIPO Treaty on the discussion list blindwebbers at yahoogroups.com .  If you
would like, I could forward you the relevant posts.

Best regards, Mark

Mark Stimson, Ph.D.
Document Accessibility Expert
www.DocumentAccessibility.com
www.AccessnIgenuity.com
-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Frye, Dan
Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 5:49 AM
To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List; david.andrews at nfbnet.org
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] [bllaw] International Copyright Concerns for
BlindReaders

Ray:
My understanding is that the issue was preserved for revisiting during
the next gathering of this body scheduled for sometime in late fall,
November I believe. This was regarded as a success in the international
context, since originally the effort was to have the topic entirely
removed from further discussion. If I receive any additional information
about how interested people can help advocate on this matter prior to
the next gathering, I'll pass it along. Chris Danielsen also follows
this issue fairly closely.

Dan Frye 

-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
On Behalf Of ray wayne
Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 7:48 PM
To: david.andrews at nfbnet.org; blindlaw at nfbnet.org
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] [bllaw] International Copyright Concerns for
BlindReaders

Does anyone have updated information on the status of this matter? My
chapter members received this e-mail, and our meeting is this Wednesday.
The question will invariably come up. 
Thanks in advance. 
Ray Wayne
PS: Please know that I am requesting information only-I do not, REPEAT,
DO NOT, wish to instigate a flurry of commentary about the Obama
administration! 


----- Original Message -----
From: "Frye, Dan" <DFrye at nfb.org> (by way of David Andrews
<dandrews at visi.com>)
To: david.andrews at nfbnet.org
Date: Friday, May 29, 2009 17:42:27
Subject: [bllaw] International Copyright Concerns for Blind Readers

>
>
> 
> Colleagues:
> 
> I am circulating a lengthy post regarding efforts to limit an 
> international treaty that would allow for rules that parallel existing

> domestic exceptions to the copyright law for blind people to govern in

> an international context. Please help bring pressure on authorities by

> letting President Obama know that these provisions would be useful, 
> and ask him to direct his representatives to abandon their hostile 
> posture toward aspects of the treaty that would be helpful. You may 
> Email your concerns to:
> 
> <mailto:President at whitehouse.gov>President at whitehouse.gov
> 
> The post follows:
> 
> 
> Right now, in Geneva, at the UN's World Intellectual Property 
> Organization, history is being made. For the first time in WIPO 
> history, the body that creates the world's copyright treaties is 
> attempting to write a copyright treaty dedicated to protecting the 
> interests of copyright users, not just copyright owners.
> 
> At issue is a treaty to protect the rights of blind people and people 
> with other disabilities that affect reading (people with dyslexia, 
> people who are paralyzed or lack arms or hands for turning pages).
> This should be a slam dunk: who wouldn't want a harmonized system of 
> copyright exceptions that ensure that it's possible for disabled 
> people to get access to the written word?
> 
> The USA, that's who. The Obama administration'
> 
> US negotiators have joined with a rogue's gallery of rich country 
> trade representatives to oppose protection for blind people. Other 
> nations and regions opposing the rights of blind people include Canada

> and the EU.
> 
> Update: Also opposing rights for disabled people: Australia, New 
> Zealand, the Vatican and Norway.
> 
> Activists at WIPO are desperate to get the word out. They're tweeting 
> madly from the negotiation (technically called the 18th session of the

> Standing Committee on Copyright and Related Rights) publishing 
> editorials on the Huffington Post, etc.
> 
> Here's where you come in: this has to get wide exposure, to get cast 
> as broadly as possible, so that it will find its way into the ears of 
> the obscure power-brokers who control national trade-negotiators.
> 
> I don't often ask readers to do things like this, but please, forward 
> this post to people you know in the US, Canada and the EU, and ask 
> them to reblog, tweet, and spread the word, especially to government 
> officials and activists who work on disabled rights. We know that WIPO

> negotiations can be overwhelmed by citizen activists -- that's how we 
> killed the Broadcast Treaty negotiation a few years back -- and with 
> your help, we can make history, and create a world where copyright law

> protects the public interest.
> 
> I am attending a meeting in Geneva of the World Intellectual Property 
> Organization (WIPO). This evening the United States government, in 
> combination with other high income countries in "Group B" is seeking 
> to block an agreement to discuss a treaty for persons who are blind or

> have other reading disabilities.
> 
> The proposal for a treaty is supported by a large number of civil 
> society NGOs, the World Blind Union, the National Federation of the 
> Blind in the US, the International DAISY Consortium, Recording for the

> Blind & Dyslexic (RFB&D), Bookshare.Org, and groups representing 
> persons with reading disabilities all around the world.
> 
> The main aim of the treaty is to allow the cross-border import and 
> export of digital copies of books and other copyrighted works in 
> formats that are accessible to persons who are blind, visually 
> impaired, dyslexic or have other reading disabilities, using special 
> devices that present text as refreshable braille, computer generated 
> text to speech, or large type. These works, which are expensive to 
> make, are typically created under national exceptions to copyright law

> that are specifically written to benefit persons with disabilities.
> 
> ...
> 
> The opposition from the United States and other high income countries 
> is due to intense lobbying from a large group of publishers that 
> oppose a "paradigm shift,"
> 
> where treaties would protect consumer interests, rather than expand 
> rights for copyright owners.
> 
> The Obama Administration was lobbied heavily on this issue, including 
> meetings with high level White House officials. Assurances coming into

> the negotiations this week that things were going in the right 
> direction have turned out to be false, as the United States delegation

> has basically read from a script written by lobbyists for publishers, 
> extolling the virtues of market based solutions, ignoring mountains of

> evidence of a "book famine" and the insane legal barriers to share 
> works.
> 
> Obama Joins Group to Block Treaty for Blind and Other Reading 
> Disabilities COPYRIGHT EXCEPTIONS AND LIMITATIONS Twitter feed for 
> #sccr18
> 
> 
> 
> With Kind Regards,
> 
> 
> ininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininin
> ininininininininin*
> Daniel B. Frye, J.D.
> Associate Editor
> The Braille Monitor
> National Federation of the Blind
> Office of the President
> 1800 Johnson Street
> Baltimore, Maryland 21230
> Telephone: (410) 659-9314 Ext. 2208
> Mobile: (410) 241-7006
> Fax: (410) 685-5653
> Email: <mailto:DFrye at nfb.org>DFrye at nfb.org
> Web Address: <http://www.nfb.org/>www.nfb.org "Voice of the Nation's 
> Blind"
> _______________________________________________
> bllaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
bllaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rwayne1%40ny
> c.rr.com


_______________________________________________
blindlaw mailing list
blindlaw at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
blindlaw:
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nuity.com

__________ NOD32 4157 (20090615) Information __________

This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
http://www.eset.com


From Cathryn.Bonnette at va.gov  Wed Jun 17 01:13:47 2009
From: Cathryn.Bonnette at va.gov (Bonnette, Cathryn (ORM))
Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 21:13:47 -0400
Subject: [blindlaw] FYI
In-Reply-To: <BBA045412218F84A8C4ED7B65BED5EE106A72A3E@AVN3VS002.ees.hhs.gov>
References: <BBA045412218F84A8C4ED7B65BED5EE106A72A3E@AVN3VS002.ees.hhs.gov>
Message-ID: <ADF1A8970DE96E49BE5360B69BE1242D03F182BE@VANCRMSGA4.vha.med.va.gov>

Gary:

Congrats!!! Good for you-

Thanks for sharing. I am passing it on to Tracey who is travelling.


Cathryn Bonnette
ADR Program Specialist
U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs (08)
Office of Resolution Management (ORM)
1575 I Street, NW-10th Floor
Washington, DC 20005
Office 202-461-0513
Fax 202-501-2885
 
http://www.va.gov/orm/
http://www.va.gov/orm/ADR.asp
cathryn.bonnette at va.gov
 
"This e-mail and any attachments are intended only for the use of the
addressee (s) named herein and may contain privileged and/or
confidential information. 
If you are not the intended recipient of this e-mail, ou are hereby
notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail,
and any attachments thereto, is strictly prohibited. If you have
received this e-mail in error, please notify me by return e-mail and via
telephone at (202) 461-0513 and permanently delete the original and any
copy of any e-mail and any printout thereof."
 
 
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
On Behalf Of Norman, Gary C. (CMS/CBC)
Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 3:55 PM
To: Joshua Friedman; Accounts2 Wheel Touring; btyler at law.csuohio.edu;
SLADE, JAMES (CMS/CPC); Stephen R. Lazarus; Day Al-Mohamed; Elaine
Gardner; Karen Sank; clnfinancial at comcast.net; Christine Gutleben; CHUCK
NORMAN; Laura and Gary Norman; Cohen, Terry L.; Arielle Bess; Vaughn,
Jacqueline R. (CMS/OSORA); thecascadeinn at comcast.net; Walker, Natoya;
ATLAST INC; Alexis Mitchell; Arnettia Wright, Esq;
rose.trotter at apachecorp.com; Herskovitz, Robert (OS/OPHS);
rjhoward at howardlawoffices.com; Rodgers, Thomas (HHS/); Roger A. Fairfax;
robrothman at aol.com; sheehan, pat; Cathy Raggio; Vanessa and Griffin;
amy96psu at yahoo.com; Laura and Gary Norman; Hamiel, Milton G.;
IAADP at aol.com; Berube, Debra (HHS/DAB); ditell at zoominternet.net;
Corning, Diane H. (CMS/OCSQ); Clark, David C (CMS/CPC); Dorothy Leggett;
Deb Kaiser; Danielle Sutton; smcclellan at opd.state.md.us;
clnfinancial at comcast.net; Bonnette, Cathryn (ORM); Barbara Graham;
Brody, Mark; Bush, Brandon L. (CMS/CPC); blindlaw at nfbnet.org
Subject: [blindlaw] FYI

Pasted below is a link to a release about the recent award, which I was
honored to have received at Wright State University in May.

 

http://www.wright.edu/cgi-bin/cm/news.cgi?action=news_item&id=1581

_______________________________________________
blindlaw mailing list
blindlaw at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
blindlaw:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cathryn.bonnet
te%40va.gov


From rwayne1 at nyc.rr.com  Wed Jun 17 02:27:59 2009
From: rwayne1 at nyc.rr.com (ray wayne)
Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 22:27:59 -0400
Subject: [blindlaw] [bllaw] International Copyright Concerns for
	BlindReaders
In-Reply-To: <009101c9eed3$6b37a9d0$41a6fd70$@com>
References: <20090615234813.rwayne1@nyc.rr.com>
	<7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6BF4FA55@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local>
	<009101c9eed3$6b37a9d0$41a6fd70$@com>
Message-ID: <20090617022759.rwayne1@nyc.rr.com>

Thanks; I think I'm okay for now. But I'll keep it in mind. 
Ray


----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Stimson" <marks at accessingenuity.com>
To: "'Ationfbnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Date: Tuesday, Jun 16, 2009 19:37:32
Subject: Re: [bllaw] [bllaw] International Copyright Concerns for BlReaders

>
>
> Hi Ray,
> There has been some very good posts and detailed information regarding the
> WIPO Treaty on the discussion list blindwebbers at yahoogroups.com .  If you
> would like, I could forward you the relevant posts.
> 
> Best regards, Mark
> 
> Mark Stimson, Ph.D.
> Document Accessibility Expert
> www.DocumentAccessibility.com
> www.AccessnIgenuity.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Frye, Dan
> Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 5:49 AM
> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List; david.andrews at nfbnet.org
> Subject: Re: [bllaw] [bllaw] International Copyright Concerns for
> BlReaders
> 
> Ray:
> My understanding is that the issue was preserved for revisiting during
> the next gathering of this body scheduled for sometime in late fall,
> November I believe. This was regarded as a success in the international
> context, since originally the effort was to have the topic entirely
> removed from further discussion. If I receive any additional information
> about how interested people can help advocate on this matter prior to
> the next gathering, I'll pass it along. Chris Danielsen also follows
> this issue fairly closely.
> 
> Dan Frye 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
> On Behalf Of ray wayne
> Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 7:48 PM
> To: david.andrews at nfbnet.org; blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> Subject: Re: [bllaw] [bllaw] International Copyright Concerns for
> BlReaders
> 
> Does anyone have updated information on the status of this matter? My
> chapter members received this e-mail, and our meeting is this Wednesday.
> The question will invariably come up. 
> Thanks in advance. 
> Ray Wayne
> PS: Please know that I am requesting information only-I do not, REPEAT,
> DO NOT, wish to instigate a flurry of commentary about the Obama
> administration! 
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Frye, Dan" <DFrye at nfb.org> (by way of David Andrews
> <dandrews at visi.com>)
> To: david.andrews at nfbnet.org
> Date: Friday, May 29, 2009 17:42:27
> Subject: [bllaw] International Copyright Concerns for Blind Readers
> 
> >
> >
> > 
> > Colleagues:
> > 
> > I am circulating a lengthy post regarding efforts to limit an 
> > international treaty that would allow for rules that parallel existing
> 
> > domestic exceptions to the copyright law for blind people to govern in
> 
> > an international context. Please help bring pressure on authorities by
> 
> > letting President Obama know that these provisions would be useful, 
> > and ask him to direct his representatives to abandon their hostile 
> > posture toward aspects of the treaty that would be helpful. You may 
> > Email your concerns to:
> > 
> > <mailto:President at whitehouse.gov>President at whitehouse.gov
> > 
> > The post follows:
> > 
> > 
> > Right now, in Geneva, at the UN's World Intellectual Property 
> > Organization, history is being made. For the first time in WIPO 
> > history, the body that creates the world's copyright treaties is 
> > attempting to write a copyright treaty dedicated to protecting the 
> > interests of copyright users, not just copyright owners.
> > 
> > At issue is a treaty to protect the rights of blind people and people 
> > with other disabilities that affect reading (people with dyslexia, 
> > people who are paralyzed or lack arms or hands for turning pages).
> > This should be a slam dunk: who wouldn't want a harmonized system of 
> > copyright exceptions that ensure that it's possible for disabled 
> > people to get access to the written word?
> > 
> > The USA, that's who. The Obama administration'
> > 
> > US negotiators have joined with a rogue's gallery of rich country 
> > trade representatives to oppose protection for blind people. Other 
> > nations and regions opposing the rights of blind people include Canada
> 
> > and the EU.
> > 
> > Update: Also opposing rights for disabled people: Australia, New 
> > Zealand, the Vatican and Norway.
> > 
> > Activists at WIPO are desperate to get the word out. They're tweeting 
> > madly from the negotiation (technically called the 18th session of the
> 
> > Standing Committee on Copyright and Related Rights) publishing 
> > editorials on the Huffington Post, etc.
> > 
> > Here's where you come in: this has to get wide exposure, to get cast 
> > as broadly as possible, so that it will find its way into the ears of 
> > the obscure power-brokers who control national trade-negotiators.
> > 
> > I don't often ask readers to do things like this, but please, forward 
> > this post to people you know in the US, Canada and the EU, and ask 
> > them to reblog, tweet, and spread the word, especially to government 
> > officials and activists who work on disabled rights. We know that WIPO
> 
> > negotiations can be overwhelmed by citizen activists -- that's how we 
> > killed the Broadcast Treaty negotiation a few years back -- and with 
> > your help, we can make history, and create a world where copyright law
> 
> > protects the public interest.
> > 
> > I am attending a meeting in Geneva of the World Intellectual Property 
> > Organization (WIPO). This evening the United States government, in 
> > combination with other high income countries in "Group B" is seeking 
> > to block an agreement to discuss a treaty for persons who are blind or
> 
> > have other reading disabilities.
> > 
> > The proposal for a treaty is supported by a large number of civil 
> > society NGOs, the World Blind Union, the National Federation of the 
> > Blind in the US, the International DAISY Consortium, Recording for the
> 
> > Blind & Dyslexic (RFB&D), Bookshare.Org, and groups representing 
> > persons with reading disabilities all around the world.
> > 
> > The main aim of the treaty is to allow the cross-border import and 
> > export of digital copies of books and other copyrighted works in 
> > formats that are accessible to persons who are blind, visually 
> > impaired, dyslexic or have other reading disabilities, using special 
> > devices that present text as refreshable braille, computer generated 
> > text to speech, or large type. These works, which are expensive to 
> > make, are typically created under national exceptions to copyright law
> 
> > that are specifically written to benefit persons with disabilities.
> > 
> > ...
> > 
> > The opposition from the United States and other high income countries 
> > is due to intense lobbying from a large group of publishers that 
> > oppose a "paradigm shift,"
> > 
> > where treaties would protect consumer interests, rather than expand 
> > rights for copyright owners.
> > 
> > The Obama Administration was lobbied heavily on this issue, including 
> > meetings with high level White House officials. Assurances coming into
> 
> > the negotiations this week that things were going in the right 
> > direction have turned out to be false, as the United States delegation
> 
> > has basically read from a script written by lobbyists for publishers, 
> > extolling the virtues of market based solutions, ignoring mountains of
> 
> > evidence of a "book famine" and the insane legal barriers to share 
> > works.
> > 
> > Obama Joins Group to Block Treaty for Blind and Other Reading 
> > Disabilities COPYRIGHT EXCEPTIONS AND LIMITATIONS Twitter feed for 
> > #sccr18
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > With Kind Regards,
> > 
> > 
> > ininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininin*
> > ininininininininin*
> > Daniel B. Frye, J.D.
> > Associate Editor
> > The Braille Monitor
> > National Federation of the Blind
> > Office of the President
> > 1800 Johnson Street
> > Baltimore, Maryland 21230
> > Telephone: (410) 659-9314 Ext. 2208
> > Mobile: (410) 241-7006
> > Fax: (410) 685-5653
> > Email: <mailto:DFrye at nfb.org>DFrye at nfb.org
> > Web Address: <http://www.nfb.org/>www.nfb.org "Voice of the Nation's 
> > Blind"
> > _______________________________________________
> > bllaw mailing list
> > blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> bllaw:
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rwayne1%40ny
> > c.rr.com
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> bllaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> bllaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/marks%40accessinge
> nuity.com
> 
> __________ NOD32 4157 (20090615) Information __________
> 
> This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
> http://www.eset.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> bllaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for bllaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rwayne1%40nyc.rr.com


From dandrews at visi.com  Wed Jun 17 02:21:37 2009
From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews)
Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 21:21:37 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
In-Reply-To: <AD3A393697E345548D9A2ADE7652A59E@noneeb869fea9a>
References: <5D0E4F7B8A144BBCBD6B21A5B4C6CFFB@rjige047kjawst>
	<AD3A393697E345548D9A2ADE7652A59E@noneeb869fea9a>
Message-ID: <auto-000103638372@mailfront1.g2host.com>

John:

Yes, you can subscribe, which we hope you don't, 
and you can also bring other topics etc. to the 
list.  The list is made up of individuals, and is 
only as good and strong as the individuals make it.

Dave

At 01:53 AM 6/16/2009, you wrote:
>Hello Scott,
>I don't want to sound like some kind of censor, but I think that the recent
>thread is a fine example of why the law students took the initiative to
>create their own list some time ago. Unfortunately the same law student
>specific threads have found their way back onto this list and it seems like
>all we really ever end up talking about is the LSAT or whether or not the
>States will allow a laptop to take the essay portion of the bar.
>I honestly can say that I never had an issue with LSAC and in my experience
>if you adequately state your accommodation needs they are pretty good about
>providing reasonable accommodations. I did have my share of grief with the
>Florida Board of Bar Examiners, but they too made reasonable accommodations.
>That being said, it is rather tiring to listen to the same old threads about
>the LSAT. That is just my opinion and I do know that I have the option to
>unsubscribe.
>Thanks,
>John
>
>John A. Ramsey Jr., Esq.
>
>Gainesville, FL 32609
>
>Phone: (352) 505-6642
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>Behalf Of rjs059 at peoplepc.com
>Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 8:40 PM
>To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
>
>
>I totally agree with scott on this point. RJ
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Scott C. LaBarre" <slabarre at labarrelaw.com>
>To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 2:40 PM
>Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
>
>
>Greetings:
>
>It is absolutely unacceptable to call anyone or anyone's ideas "dumb" or any
>other such term!!  The next such eppisode of same will be met with immediate
>removal from this list.  It is also accurate to note that when we have had
>such troubles in the past, it almost always comes from list members who are
>not attorneys, legal professionals, or law students.  We are strongly
>considering the idea of  limiting this list to those in the legal profession
>or actively seeking admission thereto.
>
>Scott C. LaBarre, Esq.
>President
>National Association of Blind Lawyers
>
>LaBarre Law Offices P.C.
>1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918
>Denver, Colorado 80222
>303 504-5979 (voice)
>303 757-3640 (fax)
>slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail)
>www.labarrelaw.com (website)
>
>CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and privileged
>information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read,
>copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in
>error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or slabarre at labarrelaw.com,
>and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any attachments
>are covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§
>2510-2521.
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Angie Matney" <angie.matney at gmail.com>
>To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 5:45 PM
>Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
>
>
> > Also, using my strategy will enable me to take my fully operational
> > computer with me for use in the evenings. I fully admit this is not
> > the cheapest way
> > to go, but there is no call for you to be rude about it. Simply don't do
> > as
> > I have suggested. Post your own ideas and refrain from junior-high-school
> > dialogue.
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
> > On Behalf Of Bryan Schulz
> > Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 6:51 PM
> > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
> > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > DUMB!
> > buy another 2.5" laptop hard drive and a thin sata to usb enclosure.
> > then use casper to clone your drive to the second hard drive as it is
> > free for 30 days. then uninstall everything you have to in order to
> > comply with the testing rules.
> > after the test, swap the hard drives as the new one will most likely have
> > much more capacity and you could then use the original smaller drive in
> > the
> > usb enclosure for extra storage.
> > the new drive and enclosure will cost about $80.
> >
> > Bryan Schulz
> > The BEST Solution
> > www.best-acts.com
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Angie Matney" <angie.matney at gmail.com>
> > To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> > Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 2:18 PM
> > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
> >
> >
> >> For those who are lucky enough to be able to use a laptop on the
> >> essays, I have a thought. If I am ultimately granted this
> >> accommodation, I expect the
> >> Board will ask me to wipe my computer clean. I believe that, instead of
> >> gutting my computer (and then worrying that I have inadvertently left
> >> something on there that shouldn't be there), I am going to buy a second
> >> netbook for use on the bar. A netbook costs around $400. I might buy one
> >> just like the one I am using now. I can always sell it at a discount
> >> after
> >> I'm done. (Then again, I might keep it and turn it into a linux
> >> machine...but that''s a topic of discussion for another list.) Current
> >> netbooks comply with the technical requirements that Virginia has for
> >> laptops. Also, the batter ycan last for an entire day of testing without
> >> needing to be recharged.
> >>
> >> This is not exactly the cheapest solution, but I believe it's what I
> >> will do it I need a clean computer.
> >>
> >> Angie
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> blindlaw mailing list
> >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >> blindlaw:
> >>
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b.schulz%40s
> > bcglob
> > al.net
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > blindlaw mailing list
> > blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > blindlaw:
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie.matney
> > %40gma
> > il.com
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > blindlaw mailing list
> > blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > blindlaw:
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/slabarre%40l
> > abarrelaw.com
> >
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>blindlaw mailing list
>blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>blindlaw:
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rjs059%40peoplepc.
>com
>
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>----
>
>
>
>No virus found in this incoming message.
>Checked by AVG.
>Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 270.12.69/2176 - Release Date: 6/14/2009
>5:54 PM
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>blindlaw mailing list
>blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>blindlaw:
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>
>
>_______________________________________________
>blindlaw mailing list
>blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get 
>your account info for blindlaw:
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>
>
>__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, 
>version of virus signature database 4160 (20090616) __________
>
>The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.
>
>http://www.eset.com



From dandrews at visi.com  Wed Jun 17 02:23:22 2009
From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews)
Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 21:23:22 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] About blindlaw,
 was Request for laptop during   essay section denied
In-Reply-To: <41B65A67-E36D-4802-B016-861237FBB88A@zufelt.ca>
References: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6BF01001@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local>
	<BAY105-DAV3286CB50FCFD6FE77B90ABB410@phx.gbl>
	<4a354d03.86c3f10a.0d1b.4f44@mx.google.com>
	<8890DEF2DAEF4AC89881B5750993217B@notebook>
	<003401c9ed73$597ce8b0$0401a8c0@computer>
	<BAY105-DAV32F01823D9B696961F629BB3E0@phx.gbl>
	<8A243E22-60A1-4FE1-A617-013133B39155@zufelt.ca>
	<auto-000106473032@mailfront2.g2host.com>
	<41B65A67-E36D-4802-B016-861237FBB88A@zufelt.ca>
Message-ID: <auto-000106662274@mailfront2.g2host.com>

It comes up ever so often, then dies down, as does list traffic.

Some people think that I under-moderate lists, and occasionally this 
may be true, but most things are cyclical, and die down.  The act of 
moderating a list generally stirs up more flak then it solves.

Dave

At 02:29 AM 6/16/2009, you wrote:
>Good evening Dave,
>
>The list would have to be private and perhaps someone from NABL would
>have to confirm their membership.  NABL could determine what "legal
>professional" means: lawyer, paralegal, etc.
>
>I myself would not be considered a legal professional.  I have
>completed only one year of law school.  I only suggested the idea
>because this has come up a few times since I joined the list.
>
>HTH,
>Everett
>
>Follow me on Twitter
>http://twitter.com/ezufelt
>
>View my LinkedIn Profile
>http://www.linkedin.com/in/ezufelt
>
>
>
>
>
>On 15-Jun-09, at 10:32 PM, David Andrews wrote:
>
>>How would you guarantee that everyone on the list was a "legal
>>professional?"
>>
>>Dave
>>
>>At 12:28 PM 6/15/2009, you wrote:
>>>Good afternoon,
>>>
>>>Perhaps people would benefit from a second list for law professionals
>>>only?
>>>
>>>About blindlaw:
>>>
>>>The purpose of Blind Law is for the discussion of legal matters and
>>>topics directly related to blind people and their blindness. This
>>>discussion area will
>>>be directly monitored by members of the National Association of Blind
>>>Lawyers, a division of the National Federation of the Blind.
>>>
>>>This area is also intended as a means for the members of the
>>>National Association of Blind Lawyers to stay in contact with each
>>>other.
>>>
>>>HTH,
>>>Everett
>>>
>>>
>>>On 15-Jun-09, at 10:46 AM, Rod Alcidonis wrote:
>>>
>>>>Craig:
>>>>
>>>>Good comments. There was a time when there was talk for the list to
>>>>remain only for blind attorneys, and I opposed it. Granted, I was
>>>>not a law student then, but I now see why this would have been the
>>>>best idea. There is a music production listserv called Midimag, it
>>>>is so well monitored that there aren't any posts that is not music
>>>>related. Folks usually don't get to post more than one off message
>>>>on the list.
>>>>
>>>>Rod Alcidonis, J.D.
>>>>C. 718-704-4651
>>>>roddj12 at hotmail.com
>>>>
>>>>----- Original Message ----- From: "Craig Borne" <cdborne at gmail.com>
>>>>To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>>Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 12:40 AM
>>>>Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section
>>>>denied
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Bryan,
>>>>>
>>>>>You really need to learn a little tact.  She was looking for a
>>>>>work- around
>>>>>to an accommodation issue, not a tech solution to what she needed.
>>>>>
>>>>>Frankly, I am getting really tired of the non-attorney participants
>>>>>on this
>>>>>list chiming in on law (or bar exam) issues.  Is this or is it not
>>>>>a list
>>>>>for blind lawyers and law related to blind related issues?  If so,
>>>>>why are
>>>>>the attorneys (or law students) on this list constantly assaulted
>>>>>with
>>>>>flaming comments that neither answer legal questions nor promote
>>>>>the
>>>>>practice of law with blind attorneys?  Over the past few weeks, I
>>>>>have
>>>>>exercised my delete key more often than in the past due to the high
>>>>>email
>>>>>traffic related neither to the practice of law nor to legal issues
>>>>>related
>>>>>to blind plaintiffs/defendants.
>>>>>
>>>>>I respectfully ask that this loosy-goosy monitoring of this list
>>>>>serve be
>>>>>tightened.  I am frankly tired of receiving emails containing
>>>>>flames from
>>>>>non-attorneys discussing non-legal topics.  It is a waste of time
>>>>>and an
>>>>>annoyance.  I, as a practicing attorney, am less inclined to post a
>>>>>query to
>>>>>this list because I don't have the time or patience to deal with
>>>>>the replies
>>>>>coming from judgmental, non-legal participants in this list.
>>>>>
>>>>>Either blind attorneys/law students have a forum on blindnet, or
>>>>>they do
>>>>>not.
>>>>>
>>>>>Craig
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Craig Borne
>>>>>Baltimore, Maryland
>>>>>"A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial
>>>>>appearance of being right, and raises at first a formidable
>>>>>outcry in
>>>>>defense of custom."  --Thomas Paine, Common Sense
>>>>>
>>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>>From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw- 
>>>>>bounces at nfbnet.org ] On
>>>>>Behalf Of Bryan Schulz
>>>>>Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 6:51 PM
>>>>>To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>>>>>Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section
>>>>>denied
>>>>>
>>>>>Hi,
>>>>>
>>>>>DUMB!
>>>>>buy another 2.5" laptop hard drive and a thin sata to usb
>>>>>enclosure.
>>>>>then use casper to clone your drive to the second hard drive as it
>>>>>is free
>>>>>for 30 days.
>>>>>then uninstall everything you have to in order to comply with the
>>>>>testing
>>>>>rules.
>>>>>after the test, swap the hard drives as the new one will most
>>>>>likely have
>>>>>much more capacity and you could then use the original smaller
>>>>>drive in the
>>>>>usb enclosure for extra storage.
>>>>>the new drive and enclosure will cost about $80.
>>>>>
>>>>>Bryan Schulz
>>>>>The BEST Solution
>>>>>www.best-acts.com
>>>>>
>>>>>----- Original Message ----- From: "Angie Matney" 
>>>>><angie.matney at gmail.com  >
>>>>>To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 2:18 PM
>>>>>Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section
>>>>>denied
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>For those who are lucky enough to be able to use a laptop on the
>>>>>>essays, I
>>>>>>have a thought. If I am ultimately granted this accommodation, I
>>>>>>expect
>>>>>>the
>>>>>>Board will ask me to wipe my computer clean. I believe that,
>>>>>>instead of
>>>>>>gutting my computer (and then worrying that I have inadvertently
>>>>>>left
>>>>>>something on there that shouldn't be there), I am going to buy a
>>>>>>second
>>>>>>netbook for use on the bar. A netbook costs around $400. I might
>>>>>>buy one
>>>>>>just like the one I am using now. I can always sell it at a
>>>>>>discount after
>>>>>>I'm done. (Then again, I might keep it and turn it into a linux
>>>>>>machine...but that''s a topic of discussion for another list.)
>>>>>>Current
>>>>>>netbooks comply with the technical requirements that Virginia has
>>>>>>for
>>>>>>laptops. Also, the batter ycan last for an entire day of testing
>>>>>>without
>>>>>>needing to be recharged.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>This is not exactly the cheapest solution, but I believe it's what
>>>>>>I will
>>>>>>do
>>>>>>it I need a clean computer.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Angie
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>>>blindlaw mailing list
>>>>>>blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>for
>>>>>>blindlaw:
>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b.schulz%40sbcglob
>>>>>al.net
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>>blindlaw mailing list
>>>>>blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>for
>>>>>blindlaw:
>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdborne%40gmail.co
>>>>>m
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>>blindlaw mailing list
>>>>>blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>for blindlaw:
>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>blindlaw mailing list
>>>>blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>for blindlaw:
>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/everett%40zufelt.ca
>>>
>>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>blindlaw mailing list
>>>blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>for blindlaw:
>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40visi.com
>>>
>>>
>>>__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus
>>>signature database 4156 (20090615) __________
>>>
>>>The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.
>>>
>>>http://www.eset.com
>>>
>>
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>blindlaw mailing list
>>blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>for blindlaw:
>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/everett%40zufelt.ca
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>blindlaw mailing list
>blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>for blindlaw:
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40visi.com
>
>
>__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus 
>signature database 4160 (20090616) __________
>
>The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.
>
>http://www.eset.com
>
>



From khagen12 at q.com  Wed Jun 17 03:18:32 2009
From: khagen12 at q.com (Kathleen Hagen)
Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 21:18:32 -0600
Subject: [blindlaw] Purpose of the List
References: <1146FEAEC59240259CC39ED6D409B00D@Rufus><9D34C2C91A8941389EE5FE60F1FF7441@StevePC>
	<839F18076C66C345BD1C0A4ACA67A1F60315BC06@dhsexcmsg12.intra.dhs.ca.gov>
Message-ID: <COL0-DAV306D1BC620476BCE1392ECC93C0@phx.gbl>

I agree with Tim.  I did actually unsubscribe from this list for a while 
because of the prolonged and personal debates that went on.  I came back 
because among all the chaff are a few kernels of very useful information.

I am on other lists where the moderator will simply step in at some point 
and say:  "discussion on this topic is now closed."  Or sometimes they write 
an e-mail directly to the parties involved off-list.  And, if the personal 
asides don't stop, they remove the instigators from the list.  That's not 
something anyone wants to do, but it may be necessary from time to time.
Kathleen Hagen
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ford, Tim (CDPH-OLS)" <Tim.Ford at cdph.ca.gov>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 12:00 PM
Subject: [blindlaw] Purpose of the List


> My humble observation is that we have two completely different scenarios
> when non-lawyers/law students are participating on this list.
>
> when someone who is not a lawyer or law student is involved, they
> sometimes are genuinely asking for advice or guidance, and essentially
> it is like a client consultation.
>
> The other situation is when the person is not interested in our advice,
> but is instead interested in a debate on policy or social grounds.  It
> is this latter situation that I believe we need to better control,
> because it tends to go around in circles, generates a ton of notes,
> often turns heated, and is of limited interest or value to those of us
> who are interested mainly in the direct legal aspects of life.
>
> Just my opinion of course, but I think we need to seriously consider how
> to help keep the list more towards its intended purpose.  Recently I
> have come close to unsubscribing from the list, simply because there is
> way too much traffic on tangential or unrelated notes, and it takes too
> much time to read through all the strings looking for the pony.
>
> Sincerely,
> Tim Ford
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
> On Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley
> Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 7:56 AM
> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Purpose of the List
>
> You are correct Joe.  We probably need to watch some of the banter.  I'm
> guilty of that as well.  Steve
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Joe Orozco" <jsorozco at gmail.com>
> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 9:58 AM
> Subject: [blindlaw] Purpose of the List
>
>
>> Hello all,
>>
>> For whatever it's worth, I appreciate the mix of attorneys and
>> non-attorneys on the list.  True, non-attorneys should be mindful that
>
>> our opinions will not always be appreciated by those actually
>> practicing law, but practicing attorneys should also learn patience in
>
>> dealing with what I think is well-intentioned thoughts by those of us
>> in other professions.
>> Ultimately,
>> I think it great that members have a place where they can pose legal
>> questions for attorneys and even better that attorneys have a place to
>
>> give and take professional advice to their colleagues.  Perhaps both
>> sides just need to think about what they post before they post?
>> Non-attorneys should be conscious of the fact that the list is
>> primarily for attorneys and their needs and that our other questions
>> will be answered as their time allows.
>>
>> Joe Orozco
>>
>> "A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the
>> crowd."--Max Lucado
>>
>>
>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus
>> signature database 4155 (20090615) __________
>>
>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>>
>> http://www.eset.com
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindlaw:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deele
>> y%40insightbb.com
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> --------
>
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.73/2180 - Release Date:
> 06/16/09 07:41:00
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tim.ford%40cdp
> h.ca.gov
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/khagen12%40q.com
> 



From dnepple at hotmail.com  Wed Jun 17 04:04:36 2009
From: dnepple at hotmail.com (don nepple)
Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 23:04:36 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] Purpose of the List
In-Reply-To: <COL0-DAV306D1BC620476BCE1392ECC93C0@phx.gbl>
References: <1146FEAEC59240259CC39ED6D409B00D@Rufus><9D34C2C91A8941389EE5FE60F1FF7441@StevePC>
	<839F18076C66C345BD1C0A4ACA67A1F60315BC06@dhsexcmsg12.intra.dhs.ca.gov>
	<COL0-DAV306D1BC620476BCE1392ECC93C0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <COL106-W9042C98FD2561A8E5E3EBA93C0@phx.gbl>


hi is it all rite too just red emails if you are not in law. i like what i have red.thank don nepple.
 
> From: khagen12 at q.com
> To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 21:18:32 -0600
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Purpose of the List
> 
> I agree with Tim. I did actually unsubscribe from this list for a while 
> because of the prolonged and personal debates that went on. I came back 
> because among all the chaff are a few kernels of very useful information.
> 
> I am on other lists where the moderator will simply step in at some point 
> and say: "discussion on this topic is now closed." Or sometimes they write 
> an e-mail directly to the parties involved off-list. And, if the personal 
> asides don't stop, they remove the instigators from the list. That's not 
> something anyone wants to do, but it may be necessary from time to time.
> Kathleen Hagen
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Ford, Tim (CDPH-OLS)" <Tim.Ford at cdph.ca.gov>
> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 12:00 PM
> Subject: [blindlaw] Purpose of the List
> 
> 
> > My humble observation is that we have two completely different scenarios
> > when non-lawyers/law students are participating on this list.
> >
> > when someone who is not a lawyer or law student is involved, they
> > sometimes are genuinely asking for advice or guidance, and essentially
> > it is like a client consultation.
> >
> > The other situation is when the person is not interested in our advice,
> > but is instead interested in a debate on policy or social grounds. It
> > is this latter situation that I believe we need to better control,
> > because it tends to go around in circles, generates a ton of notes,
> > often turns heated, and is of limited interest or value to those of us
> > who are interested mainly in the direct legal aspects of life.
> >
> > Just my opinion of course, but I think we need to seriously consider how
> > to help keep the list more towards its intended purpose. Recently I
> > have come close to unsubscribing from the list, simply because there is
> > way too much traffic on tangential or unrelated notes, and it takes too
> > much time to read through all the strings looking for the pony.
> >
> > Sincerely,
> > Tim Ford
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
> > On Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley
> > Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 7:56 AM
> > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
> > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Purpose of the List
> >
> > You are correct Joe. We probably need to watch some of the banter. I'm
> > guilty of that as well. Steve
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Joe Orozco" <jsorozco at gmail.com>
> > To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> > Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 9:58 AM
> > Subject: [blindlaw] Purpose of the List
> >
> >
> >> Hello all,
> >>
> >> For whatever it's worth, I appreciate the mix of attorneys and
> >> non-attorneys on the list. True, non-attorneys should be mindful that
> >
> >> our opinions will not always be appreciated by those actually
> >> practicing law, but practicing attorneys should also learn patience in
> >
> >> dealing with what I think is well-intentioned thoughts by those of us
> >> in other professions.
> >> Ultimately,
> >> I think it great that members have a place where they can pose legal
> >> questions for attorneys and even better that attorneys have a place to
> >
> >> give and take professional advice to their colleagues. Perhaps both
> >> sides just need to think about what they post before they post?
> >> Non-attorneys should be conscious of the fact that the list is
> >> primarily for attorneys and their needs and that our other questions
> >> will be answered as their time allows.
> >>
> >> Joe Orozco
> >>
> >> "A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the
> >> crowd."--Max Lucado
> >>
> >>
> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus
> >> signature database 4155 (20090615) __________
> >>
> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
> >>
> >> http://www.eset.com
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> blindlaw mailing list
> >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >> blindlaw:
> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deele
> >> y%40insightbb.com
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > --------
> >
> >
> >
> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> > Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.73/2180 - Release Date:
> > 06/16/09 07:41:00
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > blindlaw mailing list
> > blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > blindlaw:
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tim.ford%40cdp
> > h.ca.gov
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > blindlaw mailing list
> > blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> > blindlaw:
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/khagen12%40q.com
> > 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dnepple%40hotmail.com

_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail® has ever-growing storage! Don’t worry about storage limits.
http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/Storage?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial_Storage_062009

From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net  Wed Jun 17 12:14:20 2009
From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net)
Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 05:14:20 -0700
Subject: [blindlaw] [bllaw] International Copyright
	Concernsfor	BlindReaders
In-Reply-To: <009101c9eed3$6b37a9d0$41a6fd70$@com>
References: <20090615234813.rwayne1@nyc.rr.com><7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6BF4FA55@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local>
	<009101c9eed3$6b37a9d0$41a6fd70$@com>
Message-ID: <3454B75CCDE8415E9F7B82D535AD0190@spike>

What is Blindwebbers?
Chuck
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mark Stimson" <marks at accessingenuity.com>
To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 3:39 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] [bllaw] International Copyright Concernsfor 
BlindReaders


> Hi Ray,
> There has been some very good posts and detailed information regarding the
> WIPO Treaty on the discussion list blindwebbers at yahoogroups.com .  If you
> would like, I could forward you the relevant posts.
>
> Best regards, Mark
>
> Mark Stimson, Ph.D.
> Document Accessibility Expert
> www.DocumentAccessibility.com
> www.AccessnIgenuity.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Frye, Dan
> Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 5:49 AM
> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List; david.andrews at nfbnet.org
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] [bllaw] International Copyright Concerns for
> BlindReaders
>
> Ray:
> My understanding is that the issue was preserved for revisiting during
> the next gathering of this body scheduled for sometime in late fall,
> November I believe. This was regarded as a success in the international
> context, since originally the effort was to have the topic entirely
> removed from further discussion. If I receive any additional information
> about how interested people can help advocate on this matter prior to
> the next gathering, I'll pass it along. Chris Danielsen also follows
> this issue fairly closely.
>
> Dan Frye
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
> On Behalf Of ray wayne
> Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 7:48 PM
> To: david.andrews at nfbnet.org; blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] [bllaw] International Copyright Concerns for
> BlindReaders
>
> Does anyone have updated information on the status of this matter? My
> chapter members received this e-mail, and our meeting is this Wednesday.
> The question will invariably come up.
> Thanks in advance.
> Ray Wayne
> PS: Please know that I am requesting information only-I do not, REPEAT,
> DO NOT, wish to instigate a flurry of commentary about the Obama
> administration!
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Frye, Dan" <DFrye at nfb.org> (by way of David Andrews
> <dandrews at visi.com>)
> To: david.andrews at nfbnet.org
> Date: Friday, May 29, 2009 17:42:27
> Subject: [bllaw] International Copyright Concerns for Blind Readers
>
>>
>>
>>
>> Colleagues:
>>
>> I am circulating a lengthy post regarding efforts to limit an
>> international treaty that would allow for rules that parallel existing
>
>> domestic exceptions to the copyright law for blind people to govern in
>
>> an international context. Please help bring pressure on authorities by
>
>> letting President Obama know that these provisions would be useful,
>> and ask him to direct his representatives to abandon their hostile
>> posture toward aspects of the treaty that would be helpful. You may
>> Email your concerns to:
>>
>> <mailto:President at whitehouse.gov>President at whitehouse.gov
>>
>> The post follows:
>>
>>
>> Right now, in Geneva, at the UN's World Intellectual Property
>> Organization, history is being made. For the first time in WIPO
>> history, the body that creates the world's copyright treaties is
>> attempting to write a copyright treaty dedicated to protecting the
>> interests of copyright users, not just copyright owners.
>>
>> At issue is a treaty to protect the rights of blind people and people
>> with other disabilities that affect reading (people with dyslexia,
>> people who are paralyzed or lack arms or hands for turning pages).
>> This should be a slam dunk: who wouldn't want a harmonized system of
>> copyright exceptions that ensure that it's possible for disabled
>> people to get access to the written word?
>>
>> The USA, that's who. The Obama administration'
>>
>> US negotiators have joined with a rogue's gallery of rich country
>> trade representatives to oppose protection for blind people. Other
>> nations and regions opposing the rights of blind people include Canada
>
>> and the EU.
>>
>> Update: Also opposing rights for disabled people: Australia, New
>> Zealand, the Vatican and Norway.
>>
>> Activists at WIPO are desperate to get the word out. They're tweeting
>> madly from the negotiation (technically called the 18th session of the
>
>> Standing Committee on Copyright and Related Rights) publishing
>> editorials on the Huffington Post, etc.
>>
>> Here's where you come in: this has to get wide exposure, to get cast
>> as broadly as possible, so that it will find its way into the ears of
>> the obscure power-brokers who control national trade-negotiators.
>>
>> I don't often ask readers to do things like this, but please, forward
>> this post to people you know in the US, Canada and the EU, and ask
>> them to reblog, tweet, and spread the word, especially to government
>> officials and activists who work on disabled rights. We know that WIPO
>
>> negotiations can be overwhelmed by citizen activists -- that's how we
>> killed the Broadcast Treaty negotiation a few years back -- and with
>> your help, we can make history, and create a world where copyright law
>
>> protects the public interest.
>>
>> I am attending a meeting in Geneva of the World Intellectual Property
>> Organization (WIPO). This evening the United States government, in
>> combination with other high income countries in "Group B" is seeking
>> to block an agreement to discuss a treaty for persons who are blind or
>
>> have other reading disabilities.
>>
>> The proposal for a treaty is supported by a large number of civil
>> society NGOs, the World Blind Union, the National Federation of the
>> Blind in the US, the International DAISY Consortium, Recording for the
>
>> Blind & Dyslexic (RFB&D), Bookshare.Org, and groups representing
>> persons with reading disabilities all around the world.
>>
>> The main aim of the treaty is to allow the cross-border import and
>> export of digital copies of books and other copyrighted works in
>> formats that are accessible to persons who are blind, visually
>> impaired, dyslexic or have other reading disabilities, using special
>> devices that present text as refreshable braille, computer generated
>> text to speech, or large type. These works, which are expensive to
>> make, are typically created under national exceptions to copyright law
>
>> that are specifically written to benefit persons with disabilities.
>>
>> ...
>>
>> The opposition from the United States and other high income countries
>> is due to intense lobbying from a large group of publishers that
>> oppose a "paradigm shift,"
>>
>> where treaties would protect consumer interests, rather than expand
>> rights for copyright owners.
>>
>> The Obama Administration was lobbied heavily on this issue, including
>> meetings with high level White House officials. Assurances coming into
>
>> the negotiations this week that things were going in the right
>> direction have turned out to be false, as the United States delegation
>
>> has basically read from a script written by lobbyists for publishers,
>> extolling the virtues of market based solutions, ignoring mountains of
>
>> evidence of a "book famine" and the insane legal barriers to share
>> works.
>>
>> Obama Joins Group to Block Treaty for Blind and Other Reading
>> Disabilities COPYRIGHT EXCEPTIONS AND LIMITATIONS Twitter feed for
>> #sccr18
>>
>>
>>
>> With Kind Regards,
>>
>>
>> ininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininin
>> ininininininininin*
>> Daniel B. Frye, J.D.
>> Associate Editor
>> The Braille Monitor
>> National Federation of the Blind
>> Office of the President
>> 1800 Johnson Street
>> Baltimore, Maryland 21230
>> Telephone: (410) 659-9314 Ext. 2208
>> Mobile: (410) 241-7006
>> Fax: (410) 685-5653
>> Email: <mailto:DFrye at nfb.org>DFrye at nfb.org
>> Web Address: <http://www.nfb.org/>www.nfb.org "Voice of the Nation's
>> Blind"
>> _______________________________________________
>> bllaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> bllaw:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rwayne1%40ny
>> c.rr.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/marks%40accessinge
> nuity.com
>
> __________ NOD32 4157 (20090615) Information __________
>
> This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
> http://www.eset.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net 




From Tim.Ford at cdph.ca.gov  Wed Jun 17 13:46:52 2009
From: Tim.Ford at cdph.ca.gov (Ford, Tim (CDPH-OLS))
Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 06:46:52 -0700
Subject: [blindlaw] Behavior On This List
In-Reply-To: <20090616174102.GB37098@yumi.bluecherry.net>
References: <4a358b99.1ac1f10a.0ed9.4fff@mx.google.com><AE65BAF30FEC46C087D9261D40BE70F6@labarre>
	<20090616174102.GB37098@yumi.bluecherry.net>
Message-ID: <839F18076C66C345BD1C0A4ACA67A1F60315BC20@dhsexcmsg12.intra.dhs.ca.gov>

Hi All,

I have changed the subject line on this string, since it is now on the topic of use, or perhaps mis-use, of this list.  Changing subject lines when a thread changes is one way we can all help make the list more user friendly, and will better allow use of the delete key.  Otherwise, we maintain the problem of the time it takes to have to read through the text of the note because the subject line is no longer on point.

Tight controls over the list does not strike me as the preferred first option, since that approach would make a lot of work for one or more folks that no doubt have better things to do with their free time!

Perhaps instead the lawyers on the list can set an example by ceasing to send notes when an exchange switches over to something that is either off topic for the list, or when unprofessional conduct is involved.  It is hard to maintain an argument alone.

Sincerely,
Tim Ford

 

-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of T. Joseph Carter
Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 10:41 AM
To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied

Scott,

I truly hope that this will not be found necessary.  Those who are not practicing attorneys on this list for the most part appear to defer to those who are in matters of legal opinion, regardless of whether they are or ever will be law students.

I have little experience by which to judge your observation, having joined the list myself only upon considering a career in law.  Yet it seems to me the troubles you describe would almost invariably come from those who do not defer to those more qualified in the field.

If this list has never seen a student who believes him/herself to know everything, I'd be inclined to believe it is only by chance.  
Granted, the probability is greatly reduced by the likelihood that such a person wouldn't last long in law school if they maintain such an outlook.  *grin*

Joseph

On Mon, Jun 15, 2009 at 12:40:21PM -0600, Scott C. LaBarre wrote:
> Greetings:
>
> It is absolutely unacceptable to call anyone or anyone's ideas "dumb" 
> or any other such term!!  The next such eppisode of same will be met 
> with immediate removal from this list.  It is also accurate to note 
> that when we have had such troubles in the past, it almost always 
> comes from list members who are not attorneys, legal professionals, or 
> law students.  We are strongly considering the idea of  limiting this 
> list to those in the legal profession or actively seeking admission thereto.
>
> Scott C. LaBarre, Esq.
> President
> National Association of Blind Lawyers
>
> LaBarre Law Offices P.C.
> 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918
> Denver, Colorado 80222
> 303 504-5979 (voice)
> 303 757-3640 (fax)
> slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail)
> www.labarrelaw.com (website)
>
> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and 
> privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you 
> may not read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received 
> this message in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or 
> slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. 
> This message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic 
> Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521.
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Angie Matney" 
> <angie.matney at gmail.com>
> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 5:45 PM
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
>
>
>> Also, using my strategy will enable me to take my fully operational 
>> computer with me for use in the evenings. I fully admit this is not 
>> the cheapest way to go, but there is no call for you to be rude about 
>> it. Simply don't do as I have suggested. Post your own ideas and 
>> refrain from junior-high-school dialogue.
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org 
>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Bryan Schulz
>> Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 6:51 PM
>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section 
>> denied
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> DUMB!
>> buy another 2.5" laptop hard drive and a thin sata to usb enclosure.
>> then use casper to clone your drive to the second hard drive as it is 
>> free for 30 days.
>> then uninstall everything you have to in order to comply with the 
>> testing rules.
>> after the test, swap the hard drives as the new one will most likely 
>> have much more capacity and you could then use the original smaller 
>> drive in the usb enclosure for extra storage.
>> the new drive and enclosure will cost about $80.
>>
>> Bryan Schulz
>> The BEST Solution
>> www.best-acts.com
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Angie Matney" 
>> <angie.matney at gmail.com>
>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 2:18 PM
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section 
>> denied
>>
>>
>>> For those who are lucky enough to be able to use a laptop on the 
>>> essays, I have a thought. If I am ultimately granted this 
>>> accommodation, I expect the Board will ask me to wipe my computer 
>>> clean. I believe that, instead of gutting my computer (and then 
>>> worrying that I have inadvertently left something on there that 
>>> shouldn't be there), I am going to buy a second netbook for use on 
>>> the bar. A netbook costs around $400. I might buy one just like the 
>>> one I am using now. I can always sell it at a discount after I'm 
>>> done. (Then again, I might keep it and turn it into a linux 
>>> machine...but that''s a topic of discussion for another list.) 
>>> Current netbooks comply with the technical requirements that 
>>> Virginia has for laptops. Also, the batter ycan last for an entire 
>>> day of testing without needing to be recharged.
>>>
>>> This is not exactly the cheapest solution, but I believe it's what I 
>>> will do it I need a clean computer.
>>>
>>> Angie
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>> for
>>> blindlaw:
>>>
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b.schulz%40
>> sbcglob
>> al.net
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindlaw:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie.matne
>> y%40gma
>> il.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindlaw:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/slabarre%40
>> labarrelaw.com
>>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/carter.tjose
> ph%40gmail.com

_______________________________________________
blindlaw mailing list
blindlaw at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tim.ford%40cdph.ca.gov


From marks at accessingenuity.com  Wed Jun 17 16:41:55 2009
From: marks at accessingenuity.com (Mark Stimson)
Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 09:41:55 -0700
Subject: [blindlaw] [bllaw] International
	Copyright	Concernsfor	BlindReaders
In-Reply-To: <3454B75CCDE8415E9F7B82D535AD0190@spike>
References: <20090615234813.rwayne1@nyc.rr.com><7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6BF4FA55@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local>	<009101c9eed3$6b37a9d0$41a6fd70$@com>
	<3454B75CCDE8415E9F7B82D535AD0190@spike>
Message-ID: <00c601c9ef6a$886bae60$99430b20$@com>

Blindwebbers is a distribution group that is a forum for blind and visually
impaired web authors to share ideas and tips; as well as sighted folks who
are interested in web and document accessibility and Section 508 compliancy.
The posts are from a wide range of people from beginners to experts.  It is
most often rather technical, but sometimes there are very helpful posts on
accessibility compliancy standards and regulation.

The link for the group is http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/blindwebbers 

Best regards, Mark

Mark Stimson, Ph.D.
Document Accessibility Expert
www.DocumentAccessibility.com
www.AccessnIgenuity.com
-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net
Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2009 5:14 AM
To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] [bllaw] International Copyright Concernsfor
BlindReaders

What is Blindwebbers?
Chuck
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Stimson" <marks at accessingenuity.com>
To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 3:39 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] [bllaw] International Copyright Concernsfor
BlindReaders


> Hi Ray,
> There has been some very good posts and detailed information regarding the
> WIPO Treaty on the discussion list blindwebbers at yahoogroups.com .  If you
> would like, I could forward you the relevant posts.
>
> Best regards, Mark
>
> Mark Stimson, Ph.D.
> Document Accessibility Expert
> www.DocumentAccessibility.com
> www.AccessnIgenuity.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Frye, Dan
> Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 5:49 AM
> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List; david.andrews at nfbnet.org
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] [bllaw] International Copyright Concerns for
> BlindReaders
>
> Ray:
> My understanding is that the issue was preserved for revisiting during
> the next gathering of this body scheduled for sometime in late fall,
> November I believe. This was regarded as a success in the international
> context, since originally the effort was to have the topic entirely
> removed from further discussion. If I receive any additional information
> about how interested people can help advocate on this matter prior to
> the next gathering, I'll pass it along. Chris Danielsen also follows
> this issue fairly closely.
>
> Dan Frye
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
> On Behalf Of ray wayne
> Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 7:48 PM
> To: david.andrews at nfbnet.org; blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] [bllaw] International Copyright Concerns for
> BlindReaders
>
> Does anyone have updated information on the status of this matter? My
> chapter members received this e-mail, and our meeting is this Wednesday.
> The question will invariably come up.
> Thanks in advance.
> Ray Wayne
> PS: Please know that I am requesting information only-I do not, REPEAT,
> DO NOT, wish to instigate a flurry of commentary about the Obama
> administration!
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Frye, Dan" <DFrye at nfb.org> (by way of David Andrews
> <dandrews at visi.com>)
> To: david.andrews at nfbnet.org
> Date: Friday, May 29, 2009 17:42:27
> Subject: [bllaw] International Copyright Concerns for Blind Readers
>
>>
>>
>>
>> Colleagues:
>>
>> I am circulating a lengthy post regarding efforts to limit an
>> international treaty that would allow for rules that parallel existing
>
>> domestic exceptions to the copyright law for blind people to govern in
>
>> an international context. Please help bring pressure on authorities by
>
>> letting President Obama know that these provisions would be useful,
>> and ask him to direct his representatives to abandon their hostile
>> posture toward aspects of the treaty that would be helpful. You may
>> Email your concerns to:
>>
>> <mailto:President at whitehouse.gov>President at whitehouse.gov
>>
>> The post follows:
>>
>>
>> Right now, in Geneva, at the UN's World Intellectual Property
>> Organization, history is being made. For the first time in WIPO
>> history, the body that creates the world's copyright treaties is
>> attempting to write a copyright treaty dedicated to protecting the
>> interests of copyright users, not just copyright owners.
>>
>> At issue is a treaty to protect the rights of blind people and people
>> with other disabilities that affect reading (people with dyslexia,
>> people who are paralyzed or lack arms or hands for turning pages).
>> This should be a slam dunk: who wouldn't want a harmonized system of
>> copyright exceptions that ensure that it's possible for disabled
>> people to get access to the written word?
>>
>> The USA, that's who. The Obama administration'
>>
>> US negotiators have joined with a rogue's gallery of rich country
>> trade representatives to oppose protection for blind people. Other
>> nations and regions opposing the rights of blind people include Canada
>
>> and the EU.
>>
>> Update: Also opposing rights for disabled people: Australia, New
>> Zealand, the Vatican and Norway.
>>
>> Activists at WIPO are desperate to get the word out. They're tweeting
>> madly from the negotiation (technically called the 18th session of the
>
>> Standing Committee on Copyright and Related Rights) publishing
>> editorials on the Huffington Post, etc.
>>
>> Here's where you come in: this has to get wide exposure, to get cast
>> as broadly as possible, so that it will find its way into the ears of
>> the obscure power-brokers who control national trade-negotiators.
>>
>> I don't often ask readers to do things like this, but please, forward
>> this post to people you know in the US, Canada and the EU, and ask
>> them to reblog, tweet, and spread the word, especially to government
>> officials and activists who work on disabled rights. We know that WIPO
>
>> negotiations can be overwhelmed by citizen activists -- that's how we
>> killed the Broadcast Treaty negotiation a few years back -- and with
>> your help, we can make history, and create a world where copyright law
>
>> protects the public interest.
>>
>> I am attending a meeting in Geneva of the World Intellectual Property
>> Organization (WIPO). This evening the United States government, in
>> combination with other high income countries in "Group B" is seeking
>> to block an agreement to discuss a treaty for persons who are blind or
>
>> have other reading disabilities.
>>
>> The proposal for a treaty is supported by a large number of civil
>> society NGOs, the World Blind Union, the National Federation of the
>> Blind in the US, the International DAISY Consortium, Recording for the
>
>> Blind & Dyslexic (RFB&D), Bookshare.Org, and groups representing
>> persons with reading disabilities all around the world.
>>
>> The main aim of the treaty is to allow the cross-border import and
>> export of digital copies of books and other copyrighted works in
>> formats that are accessible to persons who are blind, visually
>> impaired, dyslexic or have other reading disabilities, using special
>> devices that present text as refreshable braille, computer generated
>> text to speech, or large type. These works, which are expensive to
>> make, are typically created under national exceptions to copyright law
>
>> that are specifically written to benefit persons with disabilities.
>>
>> ...
>>
>> The opposition from the United States and other high income countries
>> is due to intense lobbying from a large group of publishers that
>> oppose a "paradigm shift,"
>>
>> where treaties would protect consumer interests, rather than expand
>> rights for copyright owners.
>>
>> The Obama Administration was lobbied heavily on this issue, including
>> meetings with high level White House officials. Assurances coming into
>
>> the negotiations this week that things were going in the right
>> direction have turned out to be false, as the United States delegation
>
>> has basically read from a script written by lobbyists for publishers,
>> extolling the virtues of market based solutions, ignoring mountains of
>
>> evidence of a "book famine" and the insane legal barriers to share
>> works.
>>
>> Obama Joins Group to Block Treaty for Blind and Other Reading
>> Disabilities COPYRIGHT EXCEPTIONS AND LIMITATIONS Twitter feed for
>> #sccr18
>>
>>
>>
>> With Kind Regards,
>>
>>
>> ininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininin
>> ininininininininin*
>> Daniel B. Frye, J.D.
>> Associate Editor
>> The Braille Monitor
>> National Federation of the Blind
>> Office of the President
>> 1800 Johnson Street
>> Baltimore, Maryland 21230
>> Telephone: (410) 659-9314 Ext. 2208
>> Mobile: (410) 241-7006
>> Fax: (410) 685-5653
>> Email: <mailto:DFrye at nfb.org>DFrye at nfb.org
>> Web Address: <http://www.nfb.org/>www.nfb.org "Voice of the Nation's
>> Blind"
>> _______________________________________________
>> bllaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> bllaw:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rwayne1%40ny
>> c.rr.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindlaw:
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/marks%40accessinge
> nuity.com
>
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>
> This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
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> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindlaw:
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob
al.net



_______________________________________________
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blindlaw:
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From mike.sandi at comcast.net  Wed Jun 17 22:06:16 2009
From: mike.sandi at comcast.net (Michael Groat)
Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 15:06:16 -0700
Subject: [blindlaw] Show respect and courtesy to our legal friends
Message-ID: <764B405671F1457FA6A10CD4A655257A@PUTTPUTT>

To All,

 

Please value this website for its original intended use and show respect and
courtesy to our legal friends by allowing them to use the site for its
intended use.  This sight is extremely valuable for those of us that need
assistance with an actual technical legal question.   

 

>From my reading the last two Blindlaw digests, I have come across numerous
postings that are not of a legal question as this sight was intended.  The
non legal questions would be better served by posting them on the NFB
mailing list.  The NFB mailing list has many readers that have an enormous
amount of answers including insight, experience and knowledge across a
myriad of subjects.   

 

By not using this website as intended for legal questions only, it is very
likely that the site it will become extinct.   If that happens, then the
only thing left will be the NFB mailing list.  So please post it on the NFB
mailing list first.   

 

There are some of us that need technical legal assistance to locate specific
laws and their applicability.  I also enjoy reading the legal technical
questions and the responses of law, insight there of and the legal
discussions between our legal friends.  

 

Please assist in eliminating the non technical legal questions.  This will
also assist those that enjoy reading the Blindlaw Digest to improve their
own legal knowledge.

I am sorry that I know of no other way to communicate with everyone involved
at one time.

If anyone desires to respond, please do it directly, but not as a posting to
the website.   That will only add to the non technical posting, which is
what we need to eliminate.

Thank you for your assistance in preserving the website.

Michael

 

 

 


From mike.sandi at comcast.net  Wed Jun 17 22:38:06 2009
From: mike.sandi at comcast.net (Michael Groat)
Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 15:38:06 -0700
Subject: [blindlaw] Request assistance in identifying a California law(s)
Message-ID: <10049EA4D38B40F7B7BB2917E6DDD6B4@PUTTPUTT>

I am trying to identify is the California Law(s) that requires a company to
maintain reasonable accommodations after the company has made major changes
to the company computer systems.  The company supplied reasonable
accommodations, which included the screen reader JAWS (Job Access With
Speech) in 2004.  Then in 2006 the company changed the company's computer
systems.  Which the changes the screen reader was only useable for reading a
very small segment of the programs and data.  My peripheral sight has
decreased so my dependency on a screen reader has increased significantly.
After the changes the company has not supported the request for reasonable
accommodation of the screen reader being able to access all of the company's
programs and data despite multiple requests for them to do so.   

I appreciate your assistance in indentifying the California Law(s) that
would be applicable.

 

I have read the ADA so it is the California law(s) that are left unread.  I
have been unable to locate a website that lists the California laws.

 

I look forward to you response.

Thank you

Michael Groat

 

 


From rumpole at roadrunner.com  Wed Jun 17 23:00:17 2009
From: rumpole at roadrunner.com (Ross Doerr)
Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 19:00:17 -0400
Subject: [blindlaw] Test
Message-ID: <89FD88123D8F44B2B65C88D0E7C081FF@Rosslaptop>

Forgive the test post - but I seem to be getting 2 emails every time someone posts something.

From angie.matney at gmail.com  Wed Jun 17 23:00:13 2009
From: angie.matney at gmail.com (Angie Matney)
Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 19:00:13 -0400
Subject: [blindlaw] Bar accommodation
Message-ID: <4a397581.86c3f10a.7916.105d@mx.google.com>

It looks like I will be able to use a computer for the essay portion of the
test after all. I am very, very relieved by this development! 

 

As for topics of the list: I think that, no matter what other lists might be
out there, there will be cyclic discussions of the LSAT and the Bar on this
list. Had I mentioned my bar exam situation only on the law students list, I
would not have learned that people in Maryland and Minnesota have received
the accommodation I was seeking. 

 

Thank you all,

 

Angie

 

 


From rumpole at roadrunner.com  Wed Jun 17 23:07:03 2009
From: rumpole at roadrunner.com (Ross Doerr)
Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 19:07:03 -0400
Subject: [blindlaw] Dave Andrews
Message-ID: <1B43F584973C4844A1AE5E92DF2E83F8@Rosslaptop>

Dave, could you please contact me off-list? I have a technical question for you about the dual postings I've been getting.
 

From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov  Wed Jun 17 23:17:15 2009
From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel)
Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 18:17:15 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] Senior Attorney, Seattle/King County, Washington
Message-ID: <E771EAA0575B844C98712011AE73D7ED3ADA0A2C75@EDUPTCEXMB03.ed.gov>


Text:
401 Second Ave S., Suite 407
Seattle, WA 98104
(206) 464-1519 Phone
(206) 903-0526 Fax
Toll Free 1-888-201-1012
TDD 1-888-201-9737
njp at nwjustice.org
www.nwjustice.org
César E. Torres
Executive Director
Senior Attorney, Seattle/King County, Washington`
The Northwest Justice Project, Washington's statewide, publicly funded civil legal aid program, is seeking
applications for a full-time Senior (Managing) Attorney for its Seattle field office serving King County, Washington.
With 14 staff attorneys, NJP's Seattle office is the largest of NJP's field offices. The Senior Attorney is responsible
for leading a dynamic team of experienced lawyers to engage with a highly diverse client community in identifying
and addressing the civil legal needs of low income persons, families and communities in King County. The Senior
Attorney will provide legal work supervision; collaborate with equal justice partners; maintain and enhance client
community relationships; engage in community relations with the bar, judiciary, and other civil justice stakeholders;
assist NJP's statewide administrative staff to address program-wide needs, ensure staff professional development,
respond to personnel related matters and grant compliance; collaborate with NJP advocacy coordinators to motivate
and engage in broad based advocacy on behalf of low income persons statewide; and, participate as a vital member of
NJP's statewide middle management team to promote and achieve NJP's equal justice mission. The Senior Attorney
is expected to ensure that program/office advocacy priorities are effectively addressed through high quality
representation, the use of multiple advocacy tools, including community education, outreach, and policy advocacy
consistent with client needs and program funding restrictions, and that staff attorneys maximize their work for the
greatest efficiency and benefit to the client community as a whole.
QUALIFICATIONS and SKILLS:
* Maturity and demonstrated commitment to serving low-income persons,
* Ability to work with a highly diverse group of mission-driven lawyers and staff with a range of substantive
law knowledge, experience and expertise
* Excellent communication skills and desire to work with stakeholders in the broader legal community on
meeting the civil legal needs of low income persons in King County
* Minimum of five years experience with evidence of exceptional prior relevant legal work, including a broad
range of litigation and advocacy experience.
* Demonstrated excellent analytical and legal writing skills
* Demonstrated leadership skills and the ability to effectively motivate others
* Good organization and time management skills
* Member of the Washington Bar or able to obtain membership through reciprocity
SALARY/BENEFITS: Salary is dependent on experience. NJP offers an attractive benefits package, including
medical, dental and disability coverage and a law school loan forgiveness program for eligible employees.
APPLICATIONS: Email cover letter, resume, references and writing sample by close of business June 26,
2009 Attn: Susan Encherman, Director of Administration: suee at nwjustice.org
The Northwest Justice Project is committed to a policy of equal opportunity in an environment free of barriers and discriminatory
practices for its client communities, Board and staff. NJP actively promotes mutual respect, acceptance, teamwork and productivity
among people who are diverse in work background, experience, race, color, national origin, sex, age, religious preference, marital status,
sexual orientation, sensory, mental or physical abilities, veteran status, or any other perceived differences. This policy strengthens the
program while reinforcing its commitment to basic fairness. People of color, people who identify as transgender, lesbian, gay, or
bisexual, and those with disabilities are strongly encouraged to apply. If you need an accommodation to apply, contact Susan
Encherman at the email above.


From bspiry at comcast.net  Thu Jun 18 00:13:14 2009
From: bspiry at comcast.net (Bill Spiry)
Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 17:13:14 -0700
Subject: [blindlaw] Bar accommodation
In-Reply-To: <4a397581.86c3f10a.7916.105d@mx.google.com>
References: <4a397581.86c3f10a.7916.105d@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <002c01c9efa9$935d5a50$ba180ef0$@net>

Excellent, congrats and good luck!  
I agree, as someone who has just gone through the LSAT, I concur with
Angie's assessment that there is much value in tapping into the experiences
of both current law students and practicing attorneys for insights to
prepare for this exam with blindness.  It was useful for me. The topics
should certainly relate to the law, but it would be unfortunate  if that
parameter excluded prospective law students from asking for this kind of
guidance.


-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Angie Matney
Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2009 4:00 PM
To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'
Subject: [blindlaw] Bar accommodation

It looks like I will be able to use a computer for the essay portion of the
test after all. I am very, very relieved by this development! 

 

As for topics of the list: I think that, no matter what other lists might be
out there, there will be cyclic discussions of the LSAT and the Bar on this
list. Had I mentioned my bar exam situation only on the law students list, I
would not have learned that people in Maryland and Minnesota have received
the accommodation I was seeking. 

 

Thank you all,

 

Angie

 

 

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blindlaw at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
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et



From k7uij at panix.com  Thu Jun 18 02:24:03 2009
From: k7uij at panix.com (Mike Freeman)
Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 19:24:03 -0700
Subject: [blindlaw] Behavior On This List
References: <4a358b99.1ac1f10a.0ed9.4fff@mx.google.com><AE65BAF30FEC46C087D9261D40BE70F6@labarre><20090616174102.GB37098@yumi.bluecherry.net>
	<839F18076C66C345BD1C0A4ACA67A1F60315BC20@dhsexcmsg12.intra.dhs.ca.gov>
Message-ID: <B892F489ADF3422F8C9FC405237DBA77@owner96190708e>

Yup; that's about like the sound of one hand clapping!

Mike

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ford, Tim (CDPH-OLS)" <Tim.Ford at cdph.ca.gov>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2009 6:46 AM
Subject: [blindlaw] Behavior On This List


Hi All,

I have changed the subject line on this string, since it is now on the 
topic of use, or perhaps mis-use, of this list.  Changing subject lines 
when a thread changes is one way we can all help make the list more user 
friendly, and will better allow use of the delete key.  Otherwise, we 
maintain the problem of the time it takes to have to read through the 
text of the note because the subject line is no longer on point.

Tight controls over the list does not strike me as the preferred first 
option, since that approach would make a lot of work for one or more 
folks that no doubt have better things to do with their free time!

Perhaps instead the lawyers on the list can set an example by ceasing to 
send notes when an exchange switches over to something that is either 
off topic for the list, or when unprofessional conduct is involved.  It 
is hard to maintain an argument alone.

Sincerely,
Tim Ford



-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] 
On Behalf Of T. Joseph Carter
Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 10:41 AM
To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied

Scott,

I truly hope that this will not be found necessary.  Those who are not 
practicing attorneys on this list for the most part appear to defer to 
those who are in matters of legal opinion, regardless of whether they 
are or ever will be law students.

I have little experience by which to judge your observation, having 
joined the list myself only upon considering a career in law.  Yet it 
seems to me the troubles you describe would almost invariably come from 
those who do not defer to those more qualified in the field.

If this list has never seen a student who believes him/herself to know 
everything, I'd be inclined to believe it is only by chance.
Granted, the probability is greatly reduced by the likelihood that such 
a person wouldn't last long in law school if they maintain such an 
outlook.  *grin*

Joseph

On Mon, Jun 15, 2009 at 12:40:21PM -0600, Scott C. LaBarre wrote:
> Greetings:
>
> It is absolutely unacceptable to call anyone or anyone's ideas "dumb"
> or any other such term!!  The next such eppisode of same will be met
> with immediate removal from this list.  It is also accurate to note
> that when we have had such troubles in the past, it almost always
> comes from list members who are not attorneys, legal professionals, or
> law students.  We are strongly considering the idea of  limiting this
> list to those in the legal profession or actively seeking admission 
> thereto.
>
> Scott C. LaBarre, Esq.
> President
> National Association of Blind Lawyers
>
> LaBarre Law Offices P.C.
> 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918
> Denver, Colorado 80222
> 303 504-5979 (voice)
> 303 757-3640 (fax)
> slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail)
> www.labarrelaw.com (website)
>
> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and
> privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you
> may not read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received
> this message in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or
> slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system.
> This message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic
> Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521.
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Angie Matney"
> <angie.matney at gmail.com>
> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 5:45 PM
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section denied
>
>
>> Also, using my strategy will enable me to take my fully operational
>> computer with me for use in the evenings. I fully admit this is not
>> the cheapest way to go, but there is no call for you to be rude about
>> it. Simply don't do as I have suggested. Post your own ideas and
>> refrain from junior-high-school dialogue.
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org
>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Bryan Schulz
>> Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 6:51 PM
>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section
>> denied
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> DUMB!
>> buy another 2.5" laptop hard drive and a thin sata to usb enclosure.
>> then use casper to clone your drive to the second hard drive as it is
>> free for 30 days.
>> then uninstall everything you have to in order to comply with the
>> testing rules.
>> after the test, swap the hard drives as the new one will most likely
>> have much more capacity and you could then use the original smaller
>> drive in the usb enclosure for extra storage.
>> the new drive and enclosure will cost about $80.
>>
>> Bryan Schulz
>> The BEST Solution
>> www.best-acts.com
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Angie Matney"
>> <angie.matney at gmail.com>
>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 2:18 PM
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request for laptop during essay section
>> denied
>>
>>
>>> For those who are lucky enough to be able to use a laptop on the
>>> essays, I have a thought. If I am ultimately granted this
>>> accommodation, I expect the Board will ask me to wipe my computer
>>> clean. I believe that, instead of gutting my computer (and then
>>> worrying that I have inadvertently left something on there that
>>> shouldn't be there), I am going to buy a second netbook for use on
>>> the bar. A netbook costs around $400. I might buy one just like the
>>> one I am using now. I can always sell it at a discount after I'm
>>> done. (Then again, I might keep it and turn it into a linux
>>> machine...but that''s a topic of discussion for another list.)
>>> Current netbooks comply with the technical requirements that
>>> Virginia has for laptops. Also, the batter ycan last for an entire
>>> day of testing without needing to be recharged.
>>>
>>> This is not exactly the cheapest solution, but I believe it's what I
>>> will do it I need a clean computer.
>>>
>>> Angie
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>> for
>>> blindlaw:
>>>
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b.schulz%40
>> sbcglob
>> al.net
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindlaw:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie.matne
>> y%40gma
>> il.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindlaw mailing list
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindlaw:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/slabarre%40
>> labarrelaw.com
>>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/carter.tjose
> ph%40gmail.com

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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
blindlaw:
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From stiehm.law at juno.com  Thu Jun 18 12:54:12 2009
From: stiehm.law at juno.com (Patrick H. Stiehm)
Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 08:54:12 -0400
Subject: [blindlaw] Bar accommodation
Message-ID: <20090618.085412.456.0.stiehm.law@juno.com>

Dear Angie,

It is great to hear that your dragged the Bar Examiners of the
Commonwealth of Virginia, licking and screaming into the last quarter of
the 20th century.  Congratulations and best of luck on the test itself.

Patrick H. Stiehm
Stiehm Law Office
Alexandria, VA 22309
703-360-1089 (Voice)
703-935-8266 (Fax)


On Wed, 17 Jun 2009 19:00:13 -0400 "Angie Matney"
<angie.matney at gmail.com> writes:
> It looks like I will be able to use a computer for the essay portion 
> of the
> test after all. I am very, very relieved by this development! 
> 
>  
> 
> As for topics of the list: I think that, no matter what other lists 
> might be
> out there, there will be cyclic discussions of the LSAT and the Bar 
> on this
> list. Had I mentioned my bar exam situation only on the law students 
> list, I
> would not have learned that people in Maryland and Minnesota have 
> received
> the accommodation I was seeking. 
> 
>  
> 
> Thank you all,
> 
>  
> 
> Angie
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
> for blindlaw:
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stiehm.law%40ju
no.com
> 
> 
 
____________________________________________________________
Digital Photography - Click Now.
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/BLSrjpTDvmTfpvH8N8CTzQtojVS2GBHpjrZoSrg3pt6Xv2xSETKIMZhC5Re/


From stiehm.law at juno.com  Thu Jun 18 13:13:43 2009
From: stiehm.law at juno.com (Patrick H. Stiehm)
Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 09:13:43 -0400
Subject: [blindlaw] Bar accommodation
Message-ID: <20090618.091344.456.1.stiehm.law@juno.com>

Excuse me, I meant kicking and Screaming.

Patrick H. Stiehm
Stiehm Law Office
Alexandria, VA 22309
703-360-1089 (Voice)
703-935-8266 (Fax)
 
On Thu, 18 Jun 2009 08:54:12 -0400 "Patrick H. Stiehm"
<stiehm.law at juno.com> writes:
> Dear Angie,
> 
> It is great to hear that your dragged the Bar Examiners of the
> Commonwealth of Virginia, licking and screaming into the last 
> quarter of
> the 20th century.  Congratulations and best of luck on the test 
> itself.
> 
> Patrick H. Stiehm
> Stiehm Law Office
> Alexandria, VA 22309
> 703-360-1089 (Voice)
> 703-935-8266 (Fax)
> 
> 
> On Wed, 17 Jun 2009 19:00:13 -0400 "Angie Matney"
> <angie.matney at gmail.com> writes:
> > It looks like I will be able to use a computer for the essay 
> portion 
> > of the
> > test after all. I am very, very relieved by this development! 
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > As for topics of the list: I think that, no matter what other 
> lists 
> > might be
> > out there, there will be cyclic discussions of the LSAT and the 
> Bar 
> > on this
> > list. Had I mentioned my bar exam situation only on the law 
> students 
> > list, I
> > would not have learned that people in Maryland and Minnesota have 
> 
> > received
> > the accommodation I was seeking. 
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > Thank you all,
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > Angie
> > 
> >  
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > blindlaw mailing list
> > blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
> 
> > for blindlaw:
> >
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stiehm.law%40ju
> no.com
> > 
> > 
>  
> ____________________________________________________________
> Digital Photography - Click Now.
>
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/BLSrjpTDvmTfpvH8N8CTzQtojVS2G
BHpjrZoSrg3pt6Xv2xSETKIMZhC5Re/
> 
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
> for blindlaw:
>
://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stiehm.law%40juno.c
om
> 
> 
 


From angie.matney at gmail.com  Thu Jun 18 16:00:04 2009
From: angie.matney at gmail.com (Angie Matney)
Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 12:00:04 -0400
Subject: [blindlaw] Bar accommodation
In-Reply-To: <20090618.091344.456.1.stiehm.law@juno.com>
References: <20090618.091344.456.1.stiehm.law@juno.com>
Message-ID: <4a3a6485.02045a0a.4ad8.ffff9c4b@mx.google.com>

Hello Patrick,

Thanks. There was some misinformation concerning the capabilities of JAWS.
They apparently thought it had internal word-processing functions. Once this
was clarified, the Board was willing to work with me to figure out a way for
me to use a computer on the exam. Hopefully, this will make things easier
for the next blind person who wants to sit for the Virginia bar.

Best,

Angie



-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Patrick H. Stiehm
Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 9:14 AM
To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org
Cc: blindlaw at nfbnet.org
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Bar accommodation

Excuse me, I meant kicking and Screaming.

Patrick H. Stiehm
Stiehm Law Office
Alexandria, VA 22309
703-360-1089 (Voice)
703-935-8266 (Fax)
 
On Thu, 18 Jun 2009 08:54:12 -0400 "Patrick H. Stiehm"
<stiehm.law at juno.com> writes:
> Dear Angie,
> 
> It is great to hear that your dragged the Bar Examiners of the
> Commonwealth of Virginia, licking and screaming into the last 
> quarter of
> the 20th century.  Congratulations and best of luck on the test 
> itself.
> 
> Patrick H. Stiehm
> Stiehm Law Office
> Alexandria, VA 22309
> 703-360-1089 (Voice)
> 703-935-8266 (Fax)
> 
> 
> On Wed, 17 Jun 2009 19:00:13 -0400 "Angie Matney"
> <angie.matney at gmail.com> writes:
> > It looks like I will be able to use a computer for the essay 
> portion 
> > of the
> > test after all. I am very, very relieved by this development! 
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > As for topics of the list: I think that, no matter what other 
> lists 
> > might be
> > out there, there will be cyclic discussions of the LSAT and the 
> Bar 
> > on this
> > list. Had I mentioned my bar exam situation only on the law 
> students 
> > list, I
> > would not have learned that people in Maryland and Minnesota have 
> 
> > received
> > the accommodation I was seeking. 
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > Thank you all,
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > Angie
> > 
> >  
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > blindlaw mailing list
> > blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
> 
> > for blindlaw:
> >
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stiehm.law%40ju
> no.com
> > 
> > 
>  
> ____________________________________________________________
> Digital Photography - Click Now.
>
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/BLSrjpTDvmTfpvH8N8CTzQtojVS2G
BHpjrZoSrg3pt6Xv2xSETKIMZhC5Re/
> 
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
> for blindlaw:
>
://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stiehm.law%40juno.c
om
> 
> 
 

_______________________________________________
blindlaw mailing list
blindlaw at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
blindlaw:
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il.com



From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov  Thu Jun 18 16:36:39 2009
From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel)
Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 11:36:39 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] FW: Attorney Vacancies at the U.S. Department of Justice
Message-ID: <E771EAA0575B844C98712011AE73D7ED3ADA0A2C84@EDUPTCEXMB03.ed.gov>



________________________________
From: jobs-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:jobs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Maurer, Patricia
Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 12:28 PM
To: jobs at nfbnet.org
Subject: [Jobs] FW: Attorney Vacancies at the U.S. Department of Justice



________________________________
From: Hunter, Sue [mailto:Sue.Hunter at usdoj.gov]
Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 3:10 PM
To: nedy at wyjlaw.com; newmedia at ja.org; Neysas at dnfsb.gov; Maurer, Patricia; nijc at aol.com; nlove at opd.state.md.us; nmcconnell at jackscamp.com; noconnell at tabinc.org; noryrp at cox.net; nromulus at gmail.com; ntb at boglechang.com; nwpatton at law.stanford.edu; ocaaba at cox.net; omanager at lawyerscomm.org; palsd at hotmail.com; patel at fr.com; pchanster at yahoo.com; pchapman at koonz.com; pgrewal at daycasebeer.com; pkim at lordbissell.com; Maurer, Patricia; pmorrison at state.wv.us; poppy.johnston at unlv.edu; president at abaw.org
Subject: FW: Attorney Vacancies at the U.S. Department of Justice


To learn more about our attorneys and what they like most about working at DOJ, please visit our attorney profiles at, http://www.usdoj.gov/oarm/arm/profiles.htm, and the video clips of our attorneys and interns available at https://www.avuedigitalservices.com/ads/jobsatdojoarm/index.jsp

We encourage you to share this email with interested colleagues and peers. If you no longer wish to receive these periodic email announcements, please respond to this email address and ask to be removed from our mailing list. Thank you.

Current Department of Justice Attorney Vacancies

 *   DEPUTY CHIEF IMMIGRATION JUDGE EXECUTIVE OFFICE FOR IMMIGRATION REVIEW VACANCY ANNOUNCEMENT NUMBER: EOIR-09-0079 Applications received after July 6, 2009 will not be considered.<http://www.usdoj.gov/oarm/jobs/eoir-09-0079.htm>
Date posted: 06-15-2009
 *   ASSISTANT UNITED STATES ATTORNEY UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE CENTRAL DISTRICT OF CALIFORNIA 2009-1 Hiring is on a rolling basis as positions become available.<http://www.usdoj.gov/oarm/jobs/ausa-ca-2009-1.htm>
Date posted: 06-12-2009
 *   UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE DISTRICT OF ARIZONA 09-AZ-08 This vacancy will remain open until all positions are filled.<http://www.usdoj.gov/oarm/jobs/09-crm-az-08.htm>
Date posted: 06-12-2009
 *   UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE DISTRICT OF ARIZONA 09-AZ-07 This vacancy will remain open until all positions are filled.<http://www.usdoj.gov/oarm/jobs/09-crm-az-07.htm>
Date posted: 06-12-2009
 *   U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE CRIMINAL DIVISION OFFICE OF ENFORCEMENT OPERATIONS ASSOCIATE DIRECTOR (GS-15)09-CRM-OEO-020 OPEN GOVERNMENT WIDE Applications must be postmarked by June 18, 2009.<http://www.usdoj.gov/oarm/jobs/09-crm-oeo-020.htm>
Date posted: 06-12-2009
 *   EXPERIENCED ATTORNEY ADVISOR (GS-905-13/14/15) U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE ANTITRUST DIVISION FREEDOM OF INFORMATION ACT/PRIVACY ACT UNIT Applications must be received no later than July 3, 2009.<http://www.usdoj.gov/oarm/jobs/09-atr-foia-privacy.htm>
Date posted: 06-11-2009
 *   U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE DRUG ENFORCEMENT ADMINISTRATION OFFICE OF CHIEF COUNSEL DOMESTIC CRIMINAL LAW SECTION SUPERVISORY ATTORNEY/GS 15 Applications must be received by July 10, 2009.<http://www.usdoj.gov/oarm/jobs/09-dea-occ-domcrimelaw.htm>
Date posted: 06-11-2009
 *   U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE U.S. TRUSTEE'S OFFICE -- WICHITA, KS TRIAL ATTORNEY Applications must be postmarked by the closing date of June 26, 2009 and will be accepted up to five calendar days after the closing date.<http://www.usdoj.gov/oarm/jobs/09-ust-trialatty.htm>
Date posted: 06-11-2009
 *   COUNSEL TO THE DIRECTOR EXECUTIVE OFFICE FOR U.S. TRUSTEES WASHINGTON, DC ANNOUNCEMENT NUMBER: 09-23-14001 The closing date of this advertisement will be June 16, 2009.<http://www.usdoj.gov/oarm/jobs/09-ust-09-23-14001.htm>
Date posted: 06-10-2009
 *   U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE DRUG ENFORCEMENT ADMINISTRATION OFFICE OF CHIEF COUNSEL / ASSET FORFEITURE SECTION EXPERIENCED ATTORNEY / GS-12 to GS-15 Applications must be received by July 2, 2009.<http://www.usdoj.gov/oarm/jobs/09-dea-afs.htm>
Date posted: 06-09-2009
 *   U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE EXECUTIVE OFFICE FOR UNITED STATES ATTORNEYS EVALUATION AND REVIEW STAFF (EARS) SUPERVISORY ATTORNEY ADVISOR (ASSISTANT DIRECTOR), GS-0905-15 VACANCY ANNOUNCEMENT NO: 09-EOUSA-48 Closing date June 19, 2009.<http://www.usdoj.gov/oarm/jobs/09-eousa-48.htm>
Date posted: 06-08-2009
 *   TRIAL ATTORNEYS (GS-0905-15) U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE ANTITRUST DIVISION Applications must be received no later than July 2, 2009.<http://www.usdoj.gov/oarm/jobs/09-atr-e09-03-005.htm>
Date posted: 06-08-2009
 *   ATTORNEY ADVISOR EXECUTIVE OFFICE FOR IMMIGRATION REVIEW FALLS CHURCH, VA VACANCY ANNOUNCEMENT NUMBER: EOIR-09-0070 ALL APPLICATIONS MUST BE RECEIVED IN THE HUMAN RESOURCES OFFICE BY THE CLOSE OF BUSINESS ON: July 1, 2009.<http://www.usdoj.gov/oarm/jobs/eoir-09-0070.htm>
Date posted: 06-05-2009
 *   EXPERIENCED WHITE COLLAR TRIAL ATTORNEY (GS-0905-13/14/15)FRAUD SECTION CRIMINAL DIVISION U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE WASHINGTON, D.C. 09-CRM-FRD-017 Applications will be accepted until September 4, 2009.<http://www.usdoj.gov/oarm/jobs/09-crm-frd-017.htm>
Date posted: 06-05-2009
 *   U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE U.S. TRUSTEE'S OFFICE -- FRESNO, CA TRIAL ATTORNEY Applications must be postmarked by the closing date of June 12, 2009 and will be accepted up to five calendar days after the closing date.<http://www.usdoj.gov/oarm/jobs/09-ust-fresnoca.htm>
Date posted: 06-05-2009
 *   ASSISTANT UNITED STATES ATTORNEY UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE MIDDLE DISTRICT OF FLORIDA Solicitation for Ft. Myers Division Only Though the position will remain open until filled, interested applicants are encouraged to make their submissions on or before Friday, June 26, 2009.<http://www.usdoj.gov/oarm/jobs/09-usao-ftmyer.htm>
Date posted: 06-05-2009
 *   UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE NORTHERN DISTRICT OF ILLNOIS-CHICAGO. ILLINOIS PATRICK J. FITZGERALD, UNITED STATES ATTORNEY Open until filled.<http://www.usdoj.gov/oarm/jobs/09-usa-ndil-09-a.htm>
Date posted: 06-04-2009
 *   U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE DRUG ENFORCEMENT ADMINISTRATION OFFICE OF CHIEF COUNSEL / ADMINISTRATIVE LAW SECTION EXPERIENCED ATTORNEYS / GS-12 to GS-15 Applications must be received by July 1, 2009.<http://www.usdoj.gov/oarm/jobs/09-dea-adminlaw.htm>
Date posted: 06-02-2009
 *   SUPERVISORY ATTORNEY ADVISOR EXECUTIVE OFFICE FOR IMMIGRATION REVIEW FALLS CHURCH, VA VACANCY ANNOUNCEMENT NUMBER: EOIR-09-0067 ALL APPLICATIONS MUST BE RECEIVED IN THE HUMAN RESOURCES OFFICE BY THE CLOSE OF BUSINESS ON: June 22, 2009.<http://www.usdoj.gov/oarm/jobs/09-eoir-09-0067.htm>
Date posted: 06-02-2009
 *   ASSISTANT UNITED STATES ATTORNEY UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE NORTHERN DISTRICT OF MISSISSIPPI This position is open until filled. The initial cutoff for postmarked applications is June, 6 2009.<http://www.usdoj.gov/oarm/jobs/09-usao-noms.htm>
Date posted: 06-01-2009
 *   ASSISTANT UNITED STATES ATTORNEY UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE DISTRICT OF ALASKA 09-AK-006 Applications will be reviewed and acted upon on a rolling basis until the position is filled. No applications will be received after August 15, 2009.<http://www.usdoj.gov/oarm/jobs/09-usao-ak-006.htm>
Date posted: 06-01-2009
 *   FEDERAL BUREAU OF PRISONS CONSOLIDATED LEGAL CENTER FEDERAL MEDICAL CENTER LEXINGTON, KENTUCKY ATTORNEY-ADVISOR GS-905-12/13/14 This position is open until filled, but no later than June 11, 2009.<http://www.usdoj.gov/oarm/jobs/lexingtonattyvacancyannmay28.htm>
Date posted: 05-29-2009
 *   U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE OFFICE OF THE SOLICITOR GENERAL EXPERIENCED TRIAL ATTORNEY, GS-15 This announcement closes on 06/12/09.<http://www.usdoj.gov/oarm/jobs/09-osg-dc-ap.htm>
Date posted: 05-28-2009

The purpose of this email is to advise potential interested persons of employment opportunities at the Department of Justice. The Department of Justice cannot control further dissemination and/or posting of this information. Such posting and/or dissemination is not an endorsement by the Department of the organization or group disseminating and/or posting the information.

-------------- next part --------------
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From Tim.Ford at cdph.ca.gov  Thu Jun 18 16:42:37 2009
From: Tim.Ford at cdph.ca.gov (Ford, Tim (CDPH-OLS))
Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 09:42:37 -0700
Subject: [blindlaw] Request assistance in identifying a California law(s)
In-Reply-To: <10049EA4D38B40F7B7BB2917E6DDD6B4@PUTTPUTT>
References: <10049EA4D38B40F7B7BB2917E6DDD6B4@PUTTPUTT>
Message-ID: <839F18076C66C345BD1C0A4ACA67A1F60315BC43@dhsexcmsg12.intra.dhs.ca.gov>

Your case sounds like a good one for action by the California Department
of Fair Employment and Housing, the state agency that enforces the ADA
and the companion state laws, which tend to be stronger than the ADA.  I
would file a complaint with them.  Go to the web site at
www.dfeh.ca.gov.
 
Sincerely,
Tim Ford


-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
On Behalf Of Michael Groat
Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2009 3:38 PM
To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org
Subject: [blindlaw] Request assistance in identifying a California
law(s)

I am trying to identify is the California Law(s) that requires a company
to maintain reasonable accommodations after the company has made major
changes to the company computer systems.  The company supplied
reasonable accommodations, which included the screen reader JAWS (Job
Access With
Speech) in 2004.  Then in 2006 the company changed the company's
computer systems.  Which the changes the screen reader was only useable
for reading a very small segment of the programs and data.  My
peripheral sight has decreased so my dependency on a screen reader has
increased significantly.
After the changes the company has not supported the request for
reasonable accommodation of the screen reader being able to access all
of the company's
programs and data despite multiple requests for them to do so.   

I appreciate your assistance in indentifying the California Law(s) that
would be applicable.

 

I have read the ADA so it is the California law(s) that are left unread.
I have been unable to locate a website that lists the California laws.

 

I look forward to you response.

Thank you

Michael Groat

 

 

_______________________________________________
blindlaw mailing list
blindlaw at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
blindlaw:
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h.ca.gov


From craig.borne at dot.gov  Thu Jun 18 19:58:31 2009
From: craig.borne at dot.gov (craig.borne at dot.gov)
Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 15:58:31 -0400
Subject: [blindlaw] Request assistance in identifying a California law(s)
In-Reply-To: <839F18076C66C345BD1C0A4ACA67A1F60315BC43@dhsexcmsg12.intra.dhs.ca.gov>
References: <10049EA4D38B40F7B7BB2917E6DDD6B4@PUTTPUTT>
	<839F18076C66C345BD1C0A4ACA67A1F60315BC43@dhsexcmsg12.intra.dhs.ca.gov>
Message-ID: <61017FCC3706464B8ACB770A8038174E4CCECE@OSTMAIL03VS3.ad.dot.gov>

Michael,

You could also contact the regional office of the Equal Employment
Opportunity Commission (EEOC) in your area.  You can find the location
at www.eeoc.gov.  You might be able to file under the California laws
with the state Fair Employment and Housing Department and the federal
laws under Title I of the ADA with the EEOC.

Craig

Craig Borne
NHTSA/DOT
(202) 493-0627 
craig.borne at dot.gov
 

-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
On Behalf Of Ford, Tim (CDPH-OLS)
Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 12:43 PM
To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Request assistance in identifying a California
law(s)

Your case sounds like a good one for action by the California Department
of Fair Employment and Housing, the state agency that enforces the ADA
and the companion state laws, which tend to be stronger than the ADA.  I
would file a complaint with them.  Go to the web site at
www.dfeh.ca.gov.
 
Sincerely,
Tim Ford


-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
On Behalf Of Michael Groat
Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2009 3:38 PM
To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org
Subject: [blindlaw] Request assistance in identifying a California
law(s)

I am trying to identify is the California Law(s) that requires a company
to maintain reasonable accommodations after the company has made major
changes to the company computer systems.  The company supplied
reasonable accommodations, which included the screen reader JAWS (Job
Access With
Speech) in 2004.  Then in 2006 the company changed the company's
computer systems.  Which the changes the screen reader was only useable
for reading a very small segment of the programs and data.  My
peripheral sight has decreased so my dependency on a screen reader has
increased significantly.
After the changes the company has not supported the request for
reasonable accommodation of the screen reader being able to access all
of the company's
programs and data despite multiple requests for them to do so.   

I appreciate your assistance in indentifying the California Law(s) that
would be applicable.

 

I have read the ADA so it is the California law(s) that are left unread.
I have been unable to locate a website that lists the California laws.

 

I look forward to you response.

Thank you

Michael Groat

 

 

_______________________________________________
blindlaw mailing list
blindlaw at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
blindlaw:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tim.ford%40cdp
h.ca.gov

_______________________________________________
blindlaw mailing list
blindlaw at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
blindlaw:
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dot.gov


From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net  Fri Jun 19 07:27:52 2009
From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net)
Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 00:27:52 -0700
Subject: [blindlaw] ADA damages don't require intent in California ruling by
	state supreme court
Message-ID: <24DFD97534AE44CE91765BAAAFBD2161@spike>


----- Original Message ----- 
From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net 
Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 12:13 AM
Subject: ADA damages don't require intent in California ruling by state supreme court


    ADA Damages Suits Don't Require Intent, Calif. Supreme Court Rules

Mike McKee
The Recorder <http://www.law.com/jsp/ca/subscribe_intermediate.jsp>
June 12, 2009

Businesses that violate the Americans with Disabilities
Act<http://www.ada.gov/>,
even if unintentionally, can be sued for damages, the California Supreme
Court ruled unanimously on Thursday.

Justice Kathryn Mickle Werdegar concluded that was a reasonable
interpretation of the state Legislature's decision in 1992 to adopt Civil
Code §51(f) to amend the state's Unruh Civil Rights
Act<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unruh_Civil_Rights_Act>to include
violations of the ADA. While the ADA provides only injunctive
relief whether the harm was intentional or not, Section 52 of the Unruh Act
provides for damages of at least $4,000 or as much as three times the actual
harm.

"By incorporating the ADA into the Unruh Civil Rights Act, California's own
civil rights law covering public accommodations, which does provide for ...
a private damages action," Werdegar wrote, "the Legislature has afforded
this remedy to persons injured by a violation of the ADA."

A disabled man, Kenneth Munson, sued Del Taco after complaining that its
restaurant in Loma Linda, Calif., near San Bernardino, didn't provide
disabled parking or handicapped-accessible public toilets. Del Taco later
spent $75,000 on renovations.

Lambda Legal Defense and Education Fund <http://www.lambdalegal.org/>, which
filed an amicus curiae brief in the case, hailed the ruling.

"Real, reliable change for people with disabilities has been painfully
slow," staff attorney Tara Borelli of Los Angeles said in a prepared
statement. "But the high court's decision ... promises greater fairness in
California."

Munson was represented by Russell Handy, a lawyer with the San Marcos,
Calif.-based Center for Disability Access, while Del Taco was represented by
Newport Beach, Calif., attorney Lisa Wegner. Brad Seligman, of Berkeley's
Impact Fund, represented nine amici, including the California Council of the
Blind.

The ruling is *Munson v. Del Taco Inc.* , 09 C.D.O.S. 7253.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net  Fri Jun 19 08:27:26 2009
From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net)
Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 01:27:26 -0700
Subject: [blindlaw] ADA damages don't require intent in California ruling by
	state supreme court
Message-ID: <B3CA9B01803B42898E011989F9791A54@spike>

I'm not sure what happened to first posting so I am sending this again. 
Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal
1237 P Street
Fresno ca 93721
559-266-9237



    ADA Damages Suits Don't Require Intent, Calif. Supreme Court Rules

Mike McKee
The Recorder <http://www.law.com/jsp/ca/subscribe_intermediate.jsp>
June 12, 2009

Businesses that violate the Americans with Disabilities
Act<http://www.ada.gov/>,
even if unintentionally, can be sued for damages, the California Supreme
Court ruled unanimously on Thursday.

Justice Kathryn Mickle Werdegar concluded that was a reasonable
interpretation of the state Legislature's decision in 1992 to adopt Civil
Code §51(f) to amend the state's Unruh Civil Rights
Act<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unruh_Civil_Rights_Act>to include
violations of the ADA. While the ADA provides only injunctive
relief whether the harm was intentional or not, Section 52 of the Unruh Act
provides for damages of at least $4,000 or as much as three times the actual
harm.

"By incorporating the ADA into the Unruh Civil Rights Act, California's own
civil rights law covering public accommodations, which does provide for ...
a private damages action," Werdegar wrote, "the Legislature has afforded
this remedy to persons injured by a violation of the ADA."

A disabled man, Kenneth Munson, sued Del Taco after complaining that its
restaurant in Loma Linda, Calif., near San Bernardino, didn't provide
disabled parking or handicapped-accessible public toilets. Del Taco later
spent $75,000 on renovations.

Lambda Legal Defense and Education Fund <http://www.lambdalegal.org/>, which
filed an amicus curiae brief in the case, hailed the ruling.

"Real, reliable change for people with disabilities has been painfully
slow," staff attorney Tara Borelli of Los Angeles said in a prepared
statement. "But the high court's decision ... promises greater fairness in
California."

Munson was represented by Russell Handy, a lawyer with the San Marcos,
Calif.-based Center for Disability Access, while Del Taco was represented by
Newport Beach, Calif., attorney Lisa Wegner. Brad Seligman, of Berkeley's
Impact Fund, represented nine amici, including the California Council of the
Blind.

The ruling is *Munson v. Del Taco Inc.* , 09 C.D.O.S. 7253.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From benkarpilow at gmail.com  Fri Jun 19 18:50:29 2009
From: benkarpilow at gmail.com (Ben Karpilow)
Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 11:50:29 -0700
Subject: [blindlaw] Progress on obtaining electronic version of MBE
Message-ID: <01DD615A21B1440FAFF74A2171419910@bentar802wznlv>

To whom it may concern, After being misinformed that the national committee of bar examiners had sole jurisdiction to administer and grant accomodations for the MBE, I discovered that each state has jurisdiction to administer, and discretion to grant, accomodations to MBE takers within its jurisdiction. Here in California, at least one person has been provided with an electronic version of the MBE. Thus, although no state that I know of offers electronic versions of the MBE as a matter of course, it seems that, if one makes a compelling argument, it is possible to receive such an accomodation. I  will hear back regarding my appeal within a week or so. However, given the Supreme Court of California's recent liberal interpretation of the ADA (Thanks for the link,  Chuck), I'm hoping for the best. I share this with the group because, though there are many licensed attorneys among us, some of us are law students. I have been reading about at least one individual on this list's attempts to secure appropriate accomodations for the bar. That said,  I encourage anyone who would prefer an electronic exam over working with a sighted reader to pursue the matter.  The NCBE can confirm that each state has sole discretion to administer its own MBE.   Apparently many state bars are unaware of this, probably because the request is either made so infrequently, or not further pursued. I will apprise this group  of any developments. Regards,

Ben

 


Benjamin K. Karpilow
benkarpilow at gmail.com
707-548-8555

From jackchenonline at hotmail.com  Fri Jun 19 19:21:57 2009
From: jackchenonline at hotmail.com (Jack Chen)
Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 15:21:57 -0400
Subject: [blindlaw] Progress on obtaining electronic version of MBE
References: <01DD615A21B1440FAFF74A2171419910@bentar802wznlv>
Message-ID: <COL0-DAV25FDAB01726C07111C3720C33A0@phx.gbl>

Ben

Keep us all apprised.  I for one, if by chance I have to move to California 
for work, would have to take the bar again (ugh, not looking forward to 
doing that after NY and NJ).

Jack
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ben Karpilow" <benkarpilow at gmail.com>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 2:50 PM
Subject: [blindlaw] Progress on obtaining electronic version of MBE


> To whom it may concern, After being misinformed that the national 
> committee of bar examiners had sole jurisdiction to administer and grant 
> accomodations for the MBE, I discovered that each state has jurisdiction 
> to administer, and discretion to grant, accomodations to MBE takers within 
> its jurisdiction. Here in California, at least one person has been 
> provided with an electronic version of the MBE. Thus, although no state 
> that I know of offers electronic versions of the MBE as a matter of 
> course, it seems that, if one makes a compelling argument, it is possible 
> to receive such an accomodation. I  will hear back regarding my appeal 
> within a week or so. However, given the Supreme Court of California's 
> recent liberal interpretation of the ADA (Thanks for the link,  Chuck), 
> I'm hoping for the best. I share this with the group because, though there 
> are many licensed attorneys among us, some of us are law students. I have 
> been reading about at least one individual on this list's attempts to 
> secure appropriate accomodations for the bar. That said,  I encourage 
> anyone who would prefer an electronic exam over working with a sighted 
> reader to pursue the matter.  The NCBE can confirm that each state has 
> sole discretion to administer its own MBE.   Apparently many state bars 
> are unaware of this, probably because the request is either made so 
> infrequently, or not further pursued. I will apprise this group  of any 
> developments. Regards,
>
> Ben
>
>
>
>
> Benjamin K. Karpilow
> benkarpilow at gmail.com
> 707-548-8555
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jackchenonline%40hotmail.com
> 



From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov  Sat Jun 20 00:02:40 2009
From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel)
Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 19:02:40 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] California Trying E-books in high school
In-Reply-To: <022301c9ee00$a868f030$f93ad090$@com>
Message-ID: <E771EAA0575B844C98712011AE73D7ED3ADA0A2CB6@EDUPTCEXMB03.ed.gov>

Mark:

I work for the U.S. Department of Education Office for Civil Rights.  We enforce Section 504 of the Rehab Act and Title II of the ADA with respect to public entities in the education area.  I'd be happy to discuss any particular questions you have with respect to the application of those two laws and access to information.  Please send me an e-mail off list to noel.nightingale at ed.gov.

Noel Nightingale
 

-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Mark Stimson
Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 2:32 PM
To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] California Trying E-books in high school

This is very interesting, thanks for the info.  I do a lot of work on accessibility of electronic documents (and Web sites) in California; not as a lawyer but as a field expert usually brought in after a settlement.  If the E-Books are formatted correctly, this E-Book roll out can be extremely beneficial for students and teachers with visual impairments.  However, so often publishers are either unaware of federal and state accessibility requirements, or implement only the minimal necessities.  Is there anyone out there that has some experience working on law involving the accessibility of electronic information?  I joined this group recently to learn more about the legal side of accessibility.

Best regards, Mark

Mark Stimson, Ph.D.
Document Accessibility Expert
www.DocumentAccessibility.com
www.AccessnIgenuity.com 

-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Robert Jaquiss
Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 5:04 AM
To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
Subject: [blindlaw] California Trying E-books in high school
Importance: High

Hello LIst:

     I saw an article mentioning that California is going to roll out E-books for high school. Doing some research, I found a "fact sheet" on the governor's page. The link to it is below.

http://gov.ca.gov/index.php?/fact-sheet/12455/

Regards,

Robert Jaquiss
_______________________________________________
blindlaw mailing list
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http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
blindlaw:
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nuity.com

__________ NOD32 4155 (20090615) Information __________

This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
http://www.eset.com



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From stephanie_enyart at yahoo.com  Sat Jun 20 00:46:03 2009
From: stephanie_enyart at yahoo.com (Stephanie Enyart)
Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 17:46:03 -0700
Subject: [blindlaw] Progress on obtaining electronic version of MBE
In-Reply-To: <COL0-DAV25FDAB01726C07111C3720C33A0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <A422686E8DB24DEB9F6A19B506EBFAF4@DF5R2QD1>

Jack,
If you're already licensed to practice in NY and NJ, or for other states, I
am happy to share the good news -- you won't take the MBE again. In
California you will still have a multiple day bar exam California requires
an essay section and performance tests for lawyers from other states. The
most common accommodation for blind lawyers is to get double time and the
use of a computer equipped with assistive software (which divides this
lawyer's test into 4 consecutive 6-hour test days).

Stephanie 

-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Jack Chen
Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 12:22 PM
To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Progress on obtaining electronic version of MBE

Ben

Keep us all apprised.  I for one, if by chance I have to move to California 
for work, would have to take the bar again (ugh, not looking forward to 
doing that after NY and NJ).

Jack
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ben Karpilow" <benkarpilow at gmail.com>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 2:50 PM
Subject: [blindlaw] Progress on obtaining electronic version of MBE


> To whom it may concern, After being misinformed that the national 
> committee of bar examiners had sole jurisdiction to administer and grant 
> accomodations for the MBE, I discovered that each state has jurisdiction 
> to administer, and discretion to grant, accomodations to MBE takers within

> its jurisdiction. Here in California, at least one person has been 
> provided with an electronic version of the MBE. Thus, although no state 
> that I know of offers electronic versions of the MBE as a matter of 
> course, it seems that, if one makes a compelling argument, it is possible 
> to receive such an accomodation. I  will hear back regarding my appeal 
> within a week or so. However, given the Supreme Court of California's 
> recent liberal interpretation of the ADA (Thanks for the link,  Chuck), 
> I'm hoping for the best. I share this with the group because, though there

> are many licensed attorneys among us, some of us are law students. I have 
> been reading about at least one individual on this list's attempts to 
> secure appropriate accomodations for the bar. That said,  I encourage 
> anyone who would prefer an electronic exam over working with a sighted 
> reader to pursue the matter.  The NCBE can confirm that each state has 
> sole discretion to administer its own MBE.   Apparently many state bars 
> are unaware of this, probably because the request is either made so 
> infrequently, or not further pursued. I will apprise this group  of any 
> developments. Regards,
>
> Ben
>
>
>
>
> Benjamin K. Karpilow
> benkarpilow at gmail.com
> 707-548-8555
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jackchenonline%40h
otmail.com
> 


_______________________________________________
blindlaw mailing list
blindlaw at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
blindlaw:
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0yahoo.com


From jsorozco at gmail.com  Sat Jun 20 20:37:06 2009
From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco)
Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2009 16:37:06 -0400
Subject: [blindlaw] O/T Trademarks
Message-ID: <FC0D4BB458214FEEA50BF858DB1F5B22@Rufus>

Hello,

Can someone briefly explain the nature of trademarks?  I have a series of
services I want to offer, and I'd like to know if an application would need
to be drafted for each individual service or whether an application can be
submitted for the whole series as long as they are being issued from the
same business.  Seeing as how the question is not exactly blindness-related,
please e-mail me off-list so as not to clutter the list.  Thank you in
advance.

Joe Orozco

"A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the
crowd."--Max Lucado
 

__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 4174 (20090620) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com
 



From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net  Mon Jun 22 08:37:34 2009
From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net)
Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2009 01:37:34 -0700
Subject: [blindlaw] U.S. EEoc votes to revise rules to conform to ADA
Message-ID: <8958DA4CB6814000B6C5DCF8400C6301@spike>

Press Release: Commission votes to revise rules to conform to the ADA
Amendments Act
Commission Votes to Revise Rules to Conform to ADA Amendments Act
The U.S. Equal Employment Opportunity Commission
PRESS RELEASE
6-17-09
COMMISSION VOTES TO REVISE RULES TO CONFORM TO ADA AMENDMENTS ACT
New Regulations Would Make it Easier for People to Establish Disability Under ADA
WASHINGTON ? The U.S. Equal Employment Opportunity Commission (EEOC) voted today to revise its regulations to conform to changes made by the ADA Amendments Act (ADAAA) of 2008, which would make it easier for an individual seeking protection under the ADA to establish that he or she has a disability.
The Commission voted 2-1 to adopt the rules changes, at a public meeting this morning at the agency's Washington headquarters. The five-member body has two vacancies.
The rules changes approved today represent an initial stage in the regulatory process and must next go to the Office of Management and Budget for review, and to federal agencies pursuant to Executive Order 12067, without public comment.
In approving these proposed regulations, the EEOC today is taking a
significant step toward returning the ADA to the broad and strong civil rights statute that Congress originally intended it to be, said EEOC Acting Chairman Stuart J. Ishimaru. The proposed regulations will permit individuals with
disabilities to participate to the fullest extent possible in the American workplace.
Acting EEOC Vice Chair Christine M. Griffin said, "Today's vote is historic. These regulations will serve to shift the focus of the courts from further narrowing the definition of disability and putting it back to where Congress intended when the ADA was enacted in 1990. Courts should now focus on whether discrimination based on disability is occurring in the workplace. The protections afforded by the ADA AA and these new regulations are important for all workers including our returning wounded warriors who certainly deserve the
right to re-enter a workforce free of discrimination.
The Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA), an antidiscrimination statute, was signed into law in July 1990. The EEOC is responsible for enforcing Title I of the ADA, which prohibits employment discrimination against individuals with disabilities. The statute requires employers to make reasonable accommodations to employees and job applicants with disabilities defined as people with mental or physical impairments that substantially limit a major life activity,
persons with a record of a disability, or who, while not actually disabled, are regarded as disabled.
The ADA Amendments Act, which went into effect Jan. 1, 2009, makes important changes to the definition of the term "disability" by rejecting the holdings in several Supreme Court decisions and portions of EEOC's prior ADA regulations.
The effect of these changes is to make it easier for an individual seeking protection under the ADA to establish that he or she has a disability as defined by the ADA. The ADAAA emphasizes that the definition of disability should be construed in favor of broad coverage of individuals to the maximum extent permitted by the terms of the ADA and generally shall not require extensive analysis.
The ADAAA also states that Congress expects the EEOC to revise its regulations to conform to changes made by Act, and expressly authorizes the EEOC to do so.
The EEOC is responsible for enforcing federal laws prohibiting employment discrimination. Further information about the EEOC is available on its web site at 
www.eeoc.gov<http://www.eeoc    

From jweisberg at screncilaw.com  Mon Jun 22 12:57:47 2009
From: jweisberg at screncilaw.com (James Weisberg)
Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2009 08:57:47 -0400
Subject: [blindlaw] Progress on obtaining electronic version of MBE
In-Reply-To: <A422686E8DB24DEB9F6A19B506EBFAF4@DF5R2QD1>
References: <COL0-DAV25FDAB01726C07111C3720C33A0@phx.gbl>
	<A422686E8DB24DEB9F6A19B506EBFAF4@DF5R2QD1>
Message-ID: <FC50B49ED94B8A45A9AA3CE6D096CAED1F30E7@2K3FS1.screnci.local>

I believe the MBE only transfers for two years after the year of the
score.  After that one must suffer through it again no matter how many
times one passes.  Did they change this??

James W. Weisberg, Esq.
Law Office of Stephen W. Screnci, P.A.
2200 N.W. Boca Raton Blvd., Ste. 210
Boca Raton, Florida  33431
V:  (561) 300-3390
F:  (561) 300-3391
Email:  JWeisberg at screncilaw.com

This message contains information which may be confidential and
privileged. Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for
the addressee), you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message
or any information contained in this message. If you have received this
message in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete
the message from your system.

-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
On Behalf Of Stephanie Enyart
Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 8:46 PM
To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Progress on obtaining electronic version of MBE

Jack,
If you're already licensed to practice in NY and NJ, or for other
states, I
am happy to share the good news -- you won't take the MBE again. In
California you will still have a multiple day bar exam California
requires
an essay section and performance tests for lawyers from other states.
The
most common accommodation for blind lawyers is to get double time and
the
use of a computer equipped with assistive software (which divides this
lawyer's test into 4 consecutive 6-hour test days).

Stephanie 

-----Original Message-----
From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
On
Behalf Of Jack Chen
Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 12:22 PM
To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Progress on obtaining electronic version of MBE

Ben

Keep us all apprised.  I for one, if by chance I have to move to
California 
for work, would have to take the bar again (ugh, not looking forward to 
doing that after NY and NJ).

Jack
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ben Karpilow" <benkarpilow at gmail.com>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 2:50 PM
Subject: [blindlaw] Progress on obtaining electronic version of MBE


> To whom it may concern, After being misinformed that the national 
> committee of bar examiners had sole jurisdiction to administer and
grant 
> accomodations for the MBE, I discovered that each state has
jurisdiction 
> to administer, and discretion to grant, accomodations to MBE takers
within

> its jurisdiction. Here in California, at least one person has been 
> provided with an electronic version of the MBE. Thus, although no
state 
> that I know of offers electronic versions of the MBE as a matter of 
> course, it seems that, if one makes a compelling argument, it is
possible 
> to receive such an accomodation. I  will hear back regarding my appeal

> within a week or so. However, given the Supreme Court of California's 
> recent liberal interpretation of the ADA (Thanks for the link,
Chuck), 
> I'm hoping for the best. I share this with the group because, though
there

> are many licensed attorneys among us, some of us are law students. I
have 
> been reading about at least one individual on this list's attempts to 
> secure appropriate accomodations for the bar. That said,  I encourage 
> anyone who would prefer an electronic exam over working with a sighted

> reader to pursue the matter.  The NCBE can confirm that each state has

> sole discretion to administer its own MBE.   Apparently many state
bars 
> are unaware of this, probably because the request is either made so 
> infrequently, or not further pursued. I will apprise this group  of
any 
> developments. Regards,
>
> Ben
>
>
>
>
> Benjamin K. Karpilow
> benkarpilow at gmail.com
> 707-548-8555
> _______________________________________________
> blindlaw mailing list
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindlaw:
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jackchenonline
%40h
otmail.com
> 


_______________________________________________
blindlaw mailing list
blindlaw at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
blindlaw:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stephanie_enya
rt%4
0yahoo.com

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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
blindlaw:
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rencilaw.com
 

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From Bennett.Prows at HHS.GOV  Mon Jun 22 16:53:17 2009
From: Bennett.Prows at HHS.GOV (Prows, Bennett (HHS/OCR))
Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2009 12:53:17 -0400
Subject: [blindlaw] HHS Secretary Statement on Olmstead Anniversary
Message-ID: <9CDA99CD650C5544ACEADDB63CCD70D1016DF61B@AVN3VS032.ees.hhs.gov>

 FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
Contact:  HHS Press Office

Monday, June 22, 2009
(202) 690-6343

 

Statement by HHS Secretary Kathleen Sebelius

On the 10th Anniversary of the 

U.S. Supreme Court Decision Olmstead v. L.C.

 

 

HHS joins President Obama in commemorating a significant anniversary in
the civil rights movement for persons with disabilities.  Ten years ago
today, the United States Supreme Court issued its landmark decision in
Olmstead v. L.C. recognizing that "unjustified institutional isolation
of persons with disabilities is a form of discrimination" under the
Americans with Disabilities Act.  

 

To underscore the importance of the Olmstead decision and continue to
affirm our commitment to addressing isolation and discrimination against
people with disabilities that still exists today, President Obama has
designated this as a "Year of Community Living." I recognize that to put
an end to injustice and carry the directive of the Olmstead decision
into all programs of the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS),
we must create new partnerships.  And so, today, we invite all of our
public and private partners -- other federal agencies, states,
consumers, advocates, providers and others to join us in embracing the
Supreme Court's vision of equal opportunity and an end to unjustified
institutionalization for people with disabilities and chronic illnesses
and older Americans. 

 

To begin this "Year of Community Living," agencies within my department
will undertake the task of aggressively addressing barriers that prevent
some Americans with disabilities from enjoying a meaningful life as part
of their community.  I have asked the Administration on Aging (AoA), the
Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services (CMS), the Office for Civil
Rights, the Office of the Assistant Secretary for Planning and
Evaluation, and the Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services
Administration to form a HHS Coordinating Council, which will be led by
the Office on Disability. These agencies, with the support of the
department, will work together to put in place solutions that address
barriers to community living for individuals with disabilities and to
give people more control over their lives and the supports they need.  

 

As a first step, CMS will engage the public in making meaningful
regulatory reforms to the home and community-based waiver program.  An
"Advanced Notice of Proposed Rulemaking" was published in the Federal
Register today inviting public input on proposed changes to current
regulations giving states greater flexibility to serve people based on
their individual needs rather than on diagnosis.  

 

In addition, CMS and AoA are making grant funds available to states to
strengthen and expand HHS' Aging and Disability Resource Center Programs
(ADRCs).  Under this Initiative, I am encouraging collaboration by
requiring that ADRCs partner with all state agencies involved in serving
populations with disabilities, as well as the Centers for Independent
Living.  The Centers for Independent Living have an important role to
play at the community level in promoting independent living skills
throughout ADRCs.

 

- More -

- 2 -

 

HHS' Community Living Initiative will include partnerships with other
federal agencies and the public.  As the President announced earlier
today, the Department of Housing and Urban Development (HUD) will make
1,000 housing vouchers available for individuals with disabilities
transitioning from institutions to the community targeting States
operating Money Follows the Person Demonstration programs.  HUD will
award an additional 3,000 housing vouchers to serve non-elderly people
with disabilities and encourage Public Housing Authorities to form
working relationships with state Medicaid agencies interested in
addressing community living needs of beneficiaries.  While this is a
good start, this announcement is only the beginning of the collaboration
between the HHS and HUD during the "Year of Community Living."   

 

The HHS Office for Civil Rights is enhancing its partnership with the
Department of Justice's Civil Rights Division to ensure vigorous
enforcement of the Americans with Disabilities Act and the Olmstead
decision.  This partnership will maximize the effectiveness of federal
leadership in promoting the civil right of community living and setting
forth the Administration's position in federal courts.

 

To carry out the President's commitment to open government, we are
committed to giving Americans opportunities to participate in
policymaking to provide the benefit of collective expertise and
information.  In keeping with this mandate, we will reach out to the
public as partners in our Community Living Initiative. Throughout this
"Year of Community Living," HHS will hold listening sessions giving
stakeholders an opportunity to come together for a common purpose:
overcoming barriers to community-based living for people with
disabilities and the elderly. These forums will help us craft the agenda
to improve federal programs and better support the efforts of state and
local government. 

 

We look forward to this new era of partnership, innovation and
commitment to the Olmstead decision.  We are deeply committed to taking
bold new steps -- during this "Year of Community Living" and into the
future.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

###

 

 

 

Note: All HHS press releases, fact sheets and other press materials are
available at http://www.hhs.gov/news.

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From Ronza.Othman at dhs.gov  Wed Jun 24 14:45:48 2009
From: Ronza.Othman at dhs.gov (Othman, Ronza)
Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 10:45:48 -0400
Subject: [blindlaw] Vacancy Announcements for CRCL Programs Division and HQ
	EEO
Message-ID: <74096FB4D17ADA49A21F9BED9B9A33D801634207@ZAU1UG-0308.DHSNET.DS1.DHS>

Hello,

 

Please find vacancy announcements for several different positions with
the Department of Homeland Security Office for Civil Rights and Civil
Liberties below.  Several of these are in my unit (Engagement), and
several others are in the Equal Employment Opportunities side of the
office.  Please let me know if you have any questions.  Please also let
me know if you decide to apply for a position so that I can submit your
name as a referral.  We plan to fill quite a number of positions with
these announcements.

 

 

 

DHS CRCL Programs Division has openings for Program Analysts (Outreach
and Engagement) open on USA Jobs.  The position sensitivity levels are
Secret and TS/SCI.  The vacancy announcements close on July 6, 2009.
Below are links to the vacancy announcements.

 

FS-265161DE-SW09
<http://jobview.usajobs.gov/GetJob.aspx?OPMControl=1591262> 

 

FS-265161MP-SW09
<http://jobview.usajobs.gov/GetJob.aspx?OPMControl=1591288> 

 

FS-265156DE-SW09
<http://jobview.usajobs.gov/GetJob.aspx?OPMControl=1591647> 

 

FS-265156MP-SW09
<http://jobview.usajobs.gov/GetJob.aspx?OPMControl=1591666> 

 

HQ EEO Programs has an opening for a Staff Assistant and an Equal
Employment Specialist open on USA Jobs.  The vacancy announcements close
July 2, 2009 and July 6, 2009.  Below are links to the vacancy
announcements.

 

FS262383-NMH 09
<http://jobview.usajobs.gov/GetJob.aspx?JobID=81466441&jbf574=HS*&fedemp
=N&fedpub=Y&vw=d&re=0&caller=basic.aspx&pg=1&q=FS262383&AVSDM=2009-06-19
+00:03:00&rc=2&TabNum=6>
<http://jobsearch.usajobs.gov/getjob.asp?JobID=80512767&brd=3876&AVSDM=2
009-04-20+00:03:01&q=FS251382&sort=rv&vw=d&Logo=0&FedPub=Y&FedEmp=N&SUBM
IT1.x=73&SUBMIT1.y=13&ss=0&TabNum=6&rc=2> 

 

FS-263016DE AY09
<http://jobview.usajobs.gov/GetJob.aspx?JobID=81416427&JobTitle=Equal+Em
ployment+Specialist&sort=rv&vw=d&brd=3876&ss=0&FedEmp=N&FedPub=Y&q=26301
6&AVSDM=2009-06-18+14%3a05%3a00> 

 

FS-263016MP AY09
<http://jobview.usajobs.gov/GetJob.aspx?JobID=81416821&JobTitle=Equal+Em
ployment+Specialist&sort=rv&vw=d&brd=3876&ss=0&FedEmp=Y&FedPub=Y&q=26331
2&AVSDM=2009-06-18+14%3a15%3a00> 

 

 

 

Ronza M. Othman, Esq.
Policy Advisor
Office for Civil Rights & Civil Liberties
U.S. Department of Homeland Security
(202) 357-8517 (office)

(202) 436-4437 (cell) 
ronza.othman at dhs.gov <mailto:ronza.othman at dhs.gov> 
www.dhs.gov/civilliberties <http://www.dhs.gov/civilliberties> 

This message may contain agency deliberative communications, privacy
information or other information that may be privileged and exempt from
disclosure outside the agency or to the public.  Please consult with the
Department of Homeland Security, Office for Civil Rights and Civil
Liberties and the Office of General Counsel before disclosing any
information contained in this email.

 

 


From rjaquiss at earthlink.net  Wed Jun 24 14:59:38 2009
From: rjaquiss at earthlink.net (Robert Jaquiss)
Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 09:59:38 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] Interesting Supreme Court Decision: Is this useful to us?
Message-ID: <86A2C10DDE344F59BF3B629BB822EE71@D3DTZP41>

Hello List:

     I thought this would be of interest. The homeschool group has been discussing:
Forest Grove School District v. T.A., 08-305.

I used the above line in google and found an assortment of links pertaining to the case. The U.S. Supreme court's decision can be found below. Basically, Forest Grove Schools have to reimburse parents for the cost of tuition for sending their disabled child to a private school. This even though the parents did not get any special ed from the school.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/08-305.ZS.html 

Regards,

Robert Jaquiss


From slabarre at labarrelaw.com  Thu Jun 25 08:30:57 2009
From: slabarre at labarrelaw.com (Scott C. LaBarre)
Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 03:30:57 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] message regarding what to PAC for Convention
Message-ID: <auto-000104815612@mailfront1.g2host.com>

Greetings Fellow Federationists:

As you are getting ready for Convention, you may 
be wondering what to PAC.  Well, the answer is 
your check book or at least the account and 
routing numbers to your bank account.  The PAC, 
or the Preauthorized Contribution Program, is one 
of the major fundraisers for our 
Federation.  Each year we bring in about 
$360,000.00 to the organization.  It is the 
program through  which we can make easy, monthly 
donations to our national treasury.  These 
general funds go to support our scholarship 
program, our legal advocacy, our public education 
campaigns, and more.  A person can give as little 
as $5.00 a month or more to the Program.  All we 
need is a bank account from which we can withdraw 
money.  We need your bank's name, bank account 
number, and the bank's national routing 
number.  Your bank can give you all of this 
information with one simple phone call.  However, 
it would be best to get a voided check from you 
because that document has all the info we 
need.  So, just throw that check book in your brief case and come ahead!

Individuals aren't the only ones who can 
give.  Any affiliate, chapter, division, or 
Federation group can get on the Program as long 
as you have a bank account, of course.  We 
can  take donations  from savings accounts as 
long as the account permits external withdraws 
and you give the information noted above.  Again, 
we will need your bank's name, your account 
number, and the bank's national, also known as ABA, routing number.

As usual, We will be running a number of contests 
at Convention.  For the NFB affiliate that has 
the most number of people/entities either start a 
new pledge or increase an existing one,, we will 
award the PAC Rat.  The division with the most 
activity will receive the PAC Mule.  At the 
national board meeting, I will be awarding 
special prizes to the state affiliates that have 
had the largest percentage increase over the last 
year, one award will go to a large affiliate and 
another to a smaller affiliate.

Additionally, we will hold a cash drawing at the 
end of convention for two categories of people, 
those who start a new pledge and those who 
increase a pledge.  The individual whose name is 
drawn will receive $150.00 in cash.  There will 
be two drawings, one for the new pledges and one 
for the increases.  However, if we reach our 
convention goal of increasing annualized PAC 
giving to $400,000.00 or more, the cash prizes will increase to $300.00.

I look forward to seeing many of you at 
convention.  For those who can't come, I look 
forward to your participation through other 
means.  For example, I can email you a PAC form 
if you just shoot me a message at the below email.

     Scott C. LaBarre, Esq.
Chairman, PAC Plan Committee

LaBarre Law Offices P.C.
1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918
Denver, Colorado 80222
303 504-5979 (voice)
303 757-3640 (fax)
<mailto:slabarre at labarrelaw.com>slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail)
<http://www.labarrelaw.com>www.labarrelaw.com (website)

CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain 
confidential and privileged information. If you 
are not the designated recipient, you may not 
read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If 
you received this message in error, please notify 
the sender at 303) 504-5979 or 
<mailto:slabarre at labarrelaw.com>slabarre at labarrelaw.com, 
and destroy and delete it from your system. This 
message and any attachments are covered by the 
Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521.




From JFreeh at nfb.org  Thu Jun 25 20:25:15 2009
From: JFreeh at nfb.org (Freeh,
	Jessica)
Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 15:25:15 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] National Federation of the Blind and American Council of
 the Blind File Discrimination Suit Against Arizona State University
Message-ID: <auto-000104933006@mailfront1.g2host.com>



FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE


CONTACT:

Chris Danielsen

Director of Public Relations

National Federation of the Blind

(410) 659-9314, extension 2330

(410) 262-1281 (Cell)

cdanielsen at nfb.org





National Federation of the Blind and American Council of the Blind
File Discrimination Suit Against Arizona State University





University’s Amazon Kindle DX Pilot Program Discriminates Against the Blind

Baltimore, Maryland (June 25, 2009): The National 
Federation of the Blind (NFB) and the American 
Council of the Blind (ACB) filed suit today 
against Arizona State University (ASU) to prevent 
the university from deploying Amazon’s Kindle DX 
electronic reading device as a means of 
distributing electronic textbooks to its students 
because the device cannot be used by blind 
students.  Darrell Shandrow, a blind ASU student, 
is also a named plaintiff in the action.  The 
Kindle DX features text-to-speech technology that 
can read textbooks aloud to blind students.  The 
menus of the device are not accessible to the 
blind, however, making it impossible for a blind 
user to purchase books from Amazon’s Kindle 
store, select a book to read, activate the 
text-to-speech feature, and use the advanced 
reading functions available on the Kindle DX.  In 
addition to ASU, five other institutions of 
higher education are deploying the Kindle DX as 
part of a pilot project to assess the role of 
electronic textbooks and reading devices in the 
classroom.  The NFB and ACB have also filed 
complaints with the Office for Civil Rights of 
the U.S. Department of Education and the Civil 
Rights Division of the U.S. Department of 
Justice, asking for investigations of these five 
institutions, which are: Case Western Reserve 
University, the Darden School of Business at the 
University of Virginia, Pace University, 
Princeton University, and Reed College.  The 
lawsuit and complaints allege violations of the 
Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA) and the Rehabilitation Act of 1973.



Dr. Marc Maurer, President of the National 
Federation of the Blind, said: “Given the 
highly-advanced technology involved, there is no 
good reason that Amazon’s Kindle DX device should 
be inaccessible to blind students.  Amazon could 
have used the same text-to-speech technology that 
reads e-books on the device aloud to make its 
menus accessible to the blind, but it chose not 
to do so.  Worse yet, six American higher 
education institutions that are subject to 
federal laws requiring that they not discriminate 
against students with disabilities plan to deploy 
this device, even though they know that it cannot 
be used by blind students.  The National 
Federation of the Blind will not tolerate this 
unconscionable discrimination against and callous 
indifference to the right of blind students to 
receive an equal education.  We hope that this 
situation can be rectified in a manner that 
allows this exciting new reading technology to be 
made available to blind and sighted students alike.”



Darrell Shandrow, a blind student pursuing a 
degree in journalism at ASU, said: “Not having 
access to the advanced reading features of the 
Kindle DX­including the ability to download books 
and course materials, add my own bookmarks and 
notes, and look up supplemental information 
instantly on the Internet when I encounter it in 
my reading­will lock me out of this new 
technology and put me and other blind students at 
a competitive disadvantage relative to our 
sighted peers.  While my peers will have instant 
access to their course materials in electronic 
form, I will still have to wait weeks or months 
for accessible texts to be prepared for me, and 
these texts will not provide the access and 
features available to other students.  That is 
why I am standing up for myself and with other 
blind Americans to end this blatant discrimination.”





###






From roddj12 at hotmail.com  Fri Jun 26 02:29:50 2009
From: roddj12 at hotmail.com (Rod Alcidonis)
Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 22:29:50 -0400
Subject: [blindlaw] National Federation of the Blind and American
	Council of the Blind File Discrimination Suit Against Arizona
	State University
References: <auto-000104933006@mailfront1.g2host.com>
Message-ID: <BAY105-DAV109415444343C6F556DC7EBB350@phx.gbl>

Oh my God, my dream comes true. This is what I have been dreaming for a long 
time -- the time when the NFB and ACB would agree to disagree when needed 
and act in concert when it is necessary. This is, in the best interest of 
the blind of this country. Way to go!

I could not be happier since this important issue is being litigated by both 
organizations.

Rod Alcidonis, J.D.
C. 718-704-4651
roddj12 at hotmail.com

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Freeh,Jessica (by way of David Andrews <dandrews at visi.com>)" 
<JFreeh at nfb.org>
To: <david.andrews at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 4:25 PM
Subject: [blindlaw] National Federation of the Blind and American Council of 
the Blind File Discrimination Suit Against Arizona State University




FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE


CONTACT:

Chris Danielsen

Director of Public Relations

National Federation of the Blind

(410) 659-9314, extension 2330

(410) 262-1281 (Cell)

cdanielsen at nfb.org





National Federation of the Blind and American Council of the Blind
File Discrimination Suit Against Arizona State University





University's Amazon Kindle DX Pilot Program Discriminates Against the Blind

Baltimore, Maryland (June 25, 2009): The National
Federation of the Blind (NFB) and the American
Council of the Blind (ACB) filed suit today
against Arizona State University (ASU) to prevent
the university from deploying Amazon's Kindle DX
electronic reading device as a means of
distributing electronic textbooks to its students
because the device cannot be used by blind
students.  Darrell Shandrow, a blind ASU student,
is also a named plaintiff in the action.  The
Kindle DX features text-to-speech technology that
can read textbooks aloud to blind students.  The
menus of the device are not accessible to the
blind, however, making it impossible for a blind
user to purchase books from Amazon's Kindle
store, select a book to read, activate the
text-to-speech feature, and use the advanced
reading functions available on the Kindle DX.  In
addition to ASU, five other institutions of
higher education are deploying the Kindle DX as
part of a pilot project to assess the role of
electronic textbooks and reading devices in the
classroom.  The NFB and ACB have also filed
complaints with the Office for Civil Rights of
the U.S. Department of Education and the Civil
Rights Division of the U.S. Department of
Justice, asking for investigations of these five
institutions, which are: Case Western Reserve
University, the Darden School of Business at the
University of Virginia, Pace University,
Princeton University, and Reed College.  The
lawsuit and complaints allege violations of the
Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA) and the Rehabilitation Act of 1973.



Dr. Marc Maurer, President of the National
Federation of the Blind, said: "Given the
highly-advanced technology involved, there is no
good reason that Amazon's Kindle DX device should
be inaccessible to blind students.  Amazon could
have used the same text-to-speech technology that
reads e-books on the device aloud to make its
menus accessible to the blind, but it chose not
to do so.  Worse yet, six American higher
education institutions that are subject to
federal laws requiring that they not discriminate
against students with disabilities plan to deploy
this device, even though they know that it cannot
be used by blind students.  The National
Federation of the Blind will not tolerate this
unconscionable discrimination against and callous
indifference to the right of blind students to
receive an equal education.  We hope that this
situation can be rectified in a manner that
allows this exciting new reading technology to be
made available to blind and sighted students alike."



Darrell Shandrow, a blind student pursuing a
degree in journalism at ASU, said: "Not having
access to the advanced reading features of the
Kindle DX­including the ability to download books
and course materials, add my own bookmarks and
notes, and look up supplemental information
instantly on the Internet when I encounter it in
my reading­will lock me out of this new
technology and put me and other blind students at
a competitive disadvantage relative to our
sighted peers.  While my peers will have instant
access to their course materials in electronic
form, I will still have to wait weeks or months
for accessible texts to be prepared for me, and
these texts will not provide the access and
features available to other students.  That is
why I am standing up for myself and with other
blind Americans to end this blatant discrimination."





###





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From slabarre at labarrelaw.com  Fri Jun 26 17:57:13 2009
From: slabarre at labarrelaw.com (Scott C. LaBarre)
Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 11:57:13 -0600
Subject: [blindlaw] amending NABL Constitution
Message-ID: <13921B8A918D4052873650C7667F954D@labarre>

Greetings:

We will be conducting our annual meeting next Sunday, July 5th, in Detroit as part of the NFB Convention.  Our growth and increased activity requires a larger board of directors.  Cureently, we have five officers and four board members.  Pursuant to Article XII of the Constitution, we can amend the Constitution by majority vote at any regular meeting as long as the notice of the amendment is circulated ahead of time.  I am proposing that we increase the number of our board members to six from four.  Therefore, I submit the below amended Constitution pursuant to Article XII.    The Article regarding the Board is Article V. 


CONSTITUTION

NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF BLIND LAWYERS

 

ARTICLE I.  NAME

 

The name of this organization shall be The National Association of Blind Lawyers.

 

ARTICLE II.  PURPOSE

 

The purpose of the National Association of Blind Merchants is to serve as an active division of the National Federation of the Blind; to function as a mechanism

through which blind lawyers, legal professionals, and law students along with interested sighted persons can come together in local, state and national meetings to plan and carry out programs

to improve opportunities for the blind in the legal profession and thereby improve the quality of life for the blind; to provide a means of collective action for blind lawyers, legal professionals, and law students; to promote the vocational, economic, business, cultural, civil rights, and social advancement of the blind through direct and indirect advocacy; to maximize opportunities for blind lawyers, legal professionals, and law students to achieve success in the legal field; to take all necessary action to insure that blind lawyers, legal professionals, and law students have full access to the Nation's judicial and legal system; and to take such other action as will improve the overall condition and standard of living of the blind.

 

ARTICLE III.  MEMBERSHIP

 

Section A. Members shall pay annual dues to this organization.  Dues paid to State divisions, affiliates, and chapters will not apply toward membership

to this organization.  At least a majority of the members of this organization must be blind.  All members have the right to vote, serve on committees,

Speak on the floor, and hold office.

 

Section B. Disciplinary Action.  Any member may be expelled or suspended for violation of this constitution or for conduct unbecoming to a member of the

Federation and/or this Association, by a majority vote of the members present and voting at any regular business session of this organization, or by a two thirds vote of the board

of directors.  Any person who feels that he/she has been unjustly disciplined or expelled from this organization may appeal to the board of directors of

the National Federation of the Blind, which may, in it's discretion, consider the matter and make a binding decision; but until or unless the action of

discipline or expulsion is reversed by the National board, it shall continue in effect.

 

ARTICLE IV.  OFFICERS AND THEIR DUTIES

 

There shall be elected at the regular business session of this organization, at the annual convention of the National Federation of the Blind, during each

Odd numbered year, a president, a first vice president, a second vice president, a secretary, and a treasurer.  The terms of these officers shall begin

at the close of the business meeting at which they are elected.  Officers shall be elected by a majority vote of the members who are present and voting.

 There shall be no proxy voting.  If no nominee receives a majority vote on the first ballot, the name of the person receiving the fewest votes shall be

dropped from the list of nominees and a second ballot shall be taken.  This procedure shall continue until one of the nominees has received a majority

vote from the members present and voting.  The duties of each officer shall be those ordinarily associated with that office.  The president and the vice

presidents must be blind.

 

ARTICLE V.  BOARD OF DIRECTORS

 

The board of directors of this organization shall consist of the five (5) constitutional officers and six (6) additional members, six (6) of whom shall

be elected for two (2) year terms at the business meeting at the annual convention, during odd numbered years.  The six (6) board members shall be elected in the same

manner as that prescribed for the election of officers.  The board shall meet at the call of the president or on written call signed by any three (3) of

the board members.  The board shall advise the president and shall have charge of the affairs of the organization between national conventions.  At least

six  (6) members of the board must be present at any meeting to constitute a quorum to transact business.  The board may be polled by telephone, email,

or mail ballot on any question.  A majority of the board must be blind.

 

ARTICLE VI.  SPECIAL MEETINGS

 

The president of this organization may call a special meeting of the body any time he/she or a majority of the board of directors deems such action necessary.

 

ARTICLE VII.  COMMITTEES

 

The president may appoint such committees as he/she or the organization deems necessary.  The president shall be ex officio a member of all committees.

 

ARTICLE VIII.  AFFILIATION

 

The National Association of Blind Lawyers shall be a division of the National Federation of the Blind and shall furnish to the president of the National

Federation of the Blind annually, on or before January 1, a list of the names and addresses of it's members and elected officers.  A copy of the constitution

of The National Association of Blind Lawyers, and of all amendments to the constitution, shall be sent to the president of the National Federation of

the Blind without delay upon adoption.  The National Association of Blind Lawyers shall not merely be a social organization, but shall formulate programs

and actively work to promote the economic and social betterment of the blind.  This organization shall comply with the provisions of the constitution of

the National Federation of the Blind.  Policy decisions of the National Federation of the Blind (whether made by the national convention or the national

board of directors) are binding on this organization.  This organization shall participate affirmatively in carrying out such policy decisions.

 

ARTICLE IX.  DUES

 

The dues for this organization shall be paid on or before the day of the business session at the annual National Federation of the Blind convention.  The

amount for dues may be changed by a majority vote at the annual business session.

 

ARTICLE X.  DISBURSEMENT OF FUNDS

 

The funds of this organization shall be deposited in a bank to be selected by the treasurer with the approval of the president.  All financial obligations

of this organization shall be discharged by check, issued on order of the president and signed by the treasurer or by an assistant treasurer approved by

the membership or the board of directors, except that with approval of the board, some transactions may be paid in cash at the National convention.

 

ARTICLE XI.  DISSOLUTION

 

In the event of the dissolution of this organization or if (for whatever reason) it ceases to be a division of the National Federation of the Blind, it's

assets shall be given to the National Federation of the Blind to be held in trust for a reorganized division.  In the event that no division is organized

for a period of two (2) years from the date this organization ceases to be a division of the National Federation of the Blind, the assets become the property

of the National Federation of the Blind.

 

ARTICLE XII.  AMENDMENTS

 

This constitution may be amended at any regular meeting of this organization by an affirmative vote of two thirds of the members present and voting, provided

the proposed amendment has been submitted in writing and circulated prior to the meeting and provided it is in compliance with the provisions of the

constitution of the National Federation of the Blind and with the policies of the National Federation of the Blind.




Scott C. LaBarre, Esq.

LaBarre Law Offices P.C.
1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918
Denver, Colorado 80222
303 504-5979 (voice)
303 757-3640 (fax)
slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail)
www.labarrelaw.com (website)

CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic
Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521.

From dandrews at visi.com  Tue Jun 30 21:09:08 2009
From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews)
Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 16:09:08 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] =?iso-8859-1?q?Availability_of_Organizational_Conventi?=
 =?iso-8859-1?q?on_Agendas_on_NFB-NEWSLINE=AE?=
Message-ID: <auto-000105579180@mailfront1.g2host.com>

Availability of Organizational Convention Agendas on NFB-NEWSLINE®

Both the ACB and the NFB will be holding their 
conventions within the next few weeks, and as a 
service to our subscribers we are making the 
convention agendas for both consumer 
organizations available on NFB-NEWSLINE®.  To 
access these convention agendas, from the main 
menu press option number five “Newspapers in a 
Different State”  for regions, and choose option 
number four “National Meetings of Interest to the 
Print Disabled.”  From that point you may select 
option number one to access the ACB 2009 
Convention Agenda, or option number two for the 
NFB 2009 Convention Agenda, or option number 
three for NFB-NEWSLINE® Detailed Convention 
Agenda.  For those of you who use NFB-NEWSLINE® 
In Your Pocket, you may choose to download these 
convention agendas onto your personal digital 
talking book player and enjoy having the entire 
agenda on your small portable device.  To do so, 
you will first need to add the convention 
agenda(s) to your Favorites list (option number 
four from the main menu) over the phone.  This 
information is also available online via Web News 
on Demand at 
<http://www.nfbnewslineonline.org/>www.nfbnewslineonline.org. 
To find the agenda of your choice, search for the 
agenda title in the “Publications Organized 
Alphabetically” category.  Using Web News on 
Demand to read your agenda(s) allows you to 
easily search for details such as a particular 
meeting’s start time or room number.  You can 
also have an e-mail of the entire agenda, a 
particular day’s schedule, or meeting information 
sent to your inbox on demand.  If you should have 
any questions, please call Bob Watson, 
NFB-NEWSLINE® Content Manager, at (410) 659-9314, extension 2356.



David Andrews and white cane Harry.

From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov  Tue Jun 30 22:46:09 2009
From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel)
Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 17:46:09 -0500
Subject: [blindlaw] Diversity Fellowship Announcement for 2Ls - Ref#19662652
Message-ID: <E771EAA0575B844C98712011AE73D7ED3ADA0A2D60@EDUPTCEXMB03.ed.gov>

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Rachel Black [mailto:rblack at susmangodfrey.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 2:01 PM
To: MAMAS Mother Attorneys Mentoring Assoc. of Seattle Job Postings
Subject: [mamas_jobs] FW: Diversity Fellowship Announcement for 2Ls - Ref#19662652

Rachel Black posted:

2010 

2L Diversity Fellowship

Do you want to work for a dynamic, entrepreneurial firm where the attorneys work collaboratively to achieve individual and collective success?  Then we urge you to consider Riddell Williams.  At Riddell Williams, we acknowledge and respect the differences of each person in our firm.  Through our ongoing commitment to diversity, we foster mutual understanding, support and trust.  This includes education, mentoring, training and encouraging community leadership activities.

To further this commitment, we are proud to offer the Riddell Williams
(RW) Diversity Fellowship.  Our Fellowship includes a salaried summer associate position in addition to a $5,000 scholarship to defray tuition and expenses during the academic year.

We recognize that diversity can exhibit itself in many different forms, including gender, race, national origin, religion, age, veterans status, political affiliation, marital status, disability, socioeconomic circumstances, geographic background, sexual orientation and family circumstances.  We will place particular emphasis on candidates who are members of groups that are historically under-represented in the legal profession and at RW.

Applications are solicited from candidates each year based on the following criteria:

*         The candidate will be enrolled as a second year law student in
the fall of 2009 and in good standing for a JD degree at an ABA accredited law school;

*         The candidate must possess a distinguished academic record,
leadership ability, commitment to community service, and personal and professional accomplishments that demonstrate promise for a successful legal career;

*         The candidate's background and experience must demonstrate the
ability to make continuing contributions to the diversity of RW and the legal profession; and

*         The candidate must express interest in our practice areas and
commitment to building their practice in the Seattle area.

Application Materials:

*         A current resume;

*         An undergraduate and law school transcript (unofficial copies
are acceptable); and

*         A one to two page personal statement addressing the selection
criteria and explaining why the candidate believes that his or her background and experience would contribute to enhancing the diversity of RW and the legal profession.

Interested students should mail or email applications by September 15th
to:

Rebecca Misich

Human Resources & Recruiting Coordinator

Riddell Williams P.S.

1001 Fourth Avenue, Suite 4500

Seattle, WA  98154-1192 

rmisich at riddellwilliams.com

________________________________

________________________________________
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