From khagen12 at q.com Sun Mar 1 21:52:04 2009 From: khagen12 at q.com (Kathleen Hagen) Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2009 15:52:04 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] A good response on author Seth Goden's blog re the Literary Guild Message-ID: Beware of trade guilds maintaining the status quo I am not a member of the Author's Guild. Please don't blame me for their ludicrous positions. They have spoken out against public libraries, against used book stores online and now, against the Kindle reading books aloud. I used to have a record label, but I never joined the RIAA. You know, the guys that under Hilary Rosen made the multi-billion dollar mistake of trying to maintain the status quo by suing their users as a way of stopping file sharing. It's hard to overestimate how damaging relying on this single action was to an entire industry. I've eaten in restaurants, but I don't support the New York State Restaurant Association, which has spoken out against banning smoking in restaurants (it will wipe us out!) and now are giving the New York City health department a hard time for wanting to post easy-to-understand ratings of restaurant cleanliness. I drive a car, but I deplore the lobbying the car companies did to fight fuel efficiency rules--the very rules that would have transformed their industry and raised their profits. Whenever a trade association raises the barricades and tries to lobby their way into maintaining the status quo, they are doing their members a disservice. Instead of spending time and insight and effort reinventing what they do and organizing for a better future, the members are lulled into a sense of security that somehow, somehow, the future will be just like today. The key takeaway isn't that the lobbying doesn't work (though it usually doesn't). The problem is that the lobbying takes your attention away from the changes you can actually control and implement. Simple example: why doesn't the NYSRA have a staff of unofficial inspectors who help their members get an A when the real inspector comes around? Why didn't the RIAA help the record industry figure out how to transform into an industry that would embrace and leverage file sharing? You don't have to like change to take advantage of it. Technorati Links From stephanie_enyart at yahoo.com Mon Mar 2 04:53:47 2009 From: stephanie_enyart at yahoo.com (Stephanie Enyart) Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2009 20:53:47 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] LSAT Time limit In-Reply-To: <000b01c9987d$66802d60$33808820$@net> Message-ID: <000001c99af2$e0267670$0401a8c0@DF5R2QD1> Hi Bill, I used TestMasters to prepare for the LSAT. I bought an individual tutoring package. I felt they were friendly to blindness issues and know other blind people who have used them for preparation. Generally, blind people can get double time as an accommodation for the LSAT. A separate testing room, accessible clock/watch, and an amanuensis to complete the scantron sheet are also regularly approved accommodations for LSAT test takers who are blind. I also know one recent test taker who was able to take part of the test (which was all she/he asked for) on a computer equipped with Jaws. This person had to advocate for this accommodation but was successful in getting it for a test within the past year. As for the logic games section blind people ask for either a tactile drawing kit, a magnetic board with several sets of accessible magnetic letters or for those with low vision, some sort of large paper and markers or use of a CCTV to map out the games. Other accommodations blind/low vision people have received include: - use of a Braille note taking device - eye rest breaks - control of the lighting (including bringing your own lamps) - access to water - a human reader - a Braille test - enlarged scantron - large print test - use of a computer with Jaws and/or zoom text for the writing section Good luck with your test preparation! Stephanie Enyart -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Bill Spiry Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2009 5:48 PM To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Time limit Hi, I'll be taking the LSAT this June, wondering what you did to prepare for the test in terms of test prep training? Were you able to find any prep courses that were friendly to a person with blindness? Any input would be appreciated. In your request for accommodation in testing, what did you request for additional time? I look forward to hearing from you. Thanks. Bill Spiry 541-510-2623 Springfield Oregon -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of tim and vickie shaw Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2009 11:03 AM To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org Subject: [blindlaw] LSAT Time limit Man after taking the LSAT I have only two thoughts in mind. 1. I dont know how people without accoodations finish those sectiosn in the time they are allow. 2. Perhpas I wasnt given the extra time i was supposed to. I usually ask for extra time on tests, but this is the first time I have EVER used it, or i think i did. Usually i still finish well within the normal time limit, often beating meany people who werent given extra time. Since I wasnt allowed to wear a watch per the test rules I have no idea if I was given the extra time I was supposed to have or not. Oh well I finished everyting, jsut didnt have time to look back over my answer at all. _________________________________________________________________ Windows LiveT HotmailR:.more than just e-mail. http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t2_hm_justgotbetter_explore _022009 _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/bspiry%40comcast.n et _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stephanie_enyart%4 0yahoo.com From timandvickie at hotmail.com Mon Mar 2 05:30:42 2009 From: timandvickie at hotmail.com (Tim Shaw) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 05:30:42 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] LSAT Time limit In-Reply-To: <000001c99af2$e0267670$0401a8c0@DF5R2QD1> References: <000b01c9987d$66802d60$33808820$@net> <000001c99af2$e0267670$0401a8c0@DF5R2QD1> Message-ID: my accomodatiosn where time and a half one each section, 15 minutes break between each section, sepearate testing room, adjustable lighting, allowed to wear my ball cap and sunglasses if neded, use of markers and pens, use of my CCTV, use of computer for the wwriting section, and i think that was it > From: stephanie_enyart at yahoo.com > To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org > Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2009 20:53:47 -0800 > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Time limit > > Hi Bill, > I used TestMasters to prepare for the LSAT. I bought an individual tutoring > package. I felt they were friendly to blindness issues and know other blind > people who have used them for preparation. > > Generally, blind people can get double time as an accommodation for the > LSAT. A separate testing room, accessible clock/watch, and an amanuensis to > complete the scantron sheet are also regularly approved accommodations for > LSAT test takers who are blind. I also know one recent test taker who was > able to take part of the test (which was all she/he asked for) on a computer > equipped with Jaws. This person had to advocate for this accommodation but > was successful in getting it for a test within the past year. As for the > logic games section blind people ask for either a tactile drawing kit, a > magnetic board with several sets of accessible magnetic letters or for those > with low vision, some sort of large paper and markers or use of a CCTV to > map out the games. > > Other accommodations blind/low vision people have received include: > - use of a Braille note taking device > - eye rest breaks > - control of the lighting (including bringing your own lamps) > - access to water > - a human reader > - a Braille test > - enlarged scantron > - large print test > - use of a computer with Jaws and/or zoom text for the writing section > > Good luck with your test preparation! > Stephanie Enyart > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of Bill Spiry > Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2009 5:48 PM > To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Time limit > > Hi, I'll be taking the LSAT this June, wondering what you did to prepare for > the test in terms of test prep training? Were you able to find any prep > courses that were friendly to a person with blindness? Any input would be > appreciated. > In your request for accommodation in testing, what did you request for > additional time? > I look forward to hearing from you. Thanks. > Bill Spiry > 541-510-2623 > Springfield Oregon > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of tim and vickie shaw > Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2009 11:03 AM > To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org > Subject: [blindlaw] LSAT Time limit > > > Man after taking the LSAT I have only two thoughts in mind. > > > > 1. I dont know how people without accoodations finish those sectiosn in the > time they are allow. > > 2. Perhpas I wasnt given the extra time i was supposed to. > > > > I usually ask for extra time on tests, but this is the first time I have > EVER used it, or i think i did. Usually i still finish well within the > normal time limit, often beating meany people who werent given extra time. > Since I wasnt allowed to wear a watch per the test rules I have no idea if > I was given the extra time I was supposed to have or not. Oh well I finished > everyting, jsut didnt have time to look back over my answer at all. > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Windows LiveT HotmailR:.more than just e-mail. > http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t2_hm_justgotbetter_explore > _022009 > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/bspiry%40comcast.n > et > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stephanie_enyart%4 > 0yahoo.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/timandvickie%40hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live™ Groups: Create an online spot for your favorite groups to meet. http://windowslive.com/online/groups?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_groups_032009 From bspiry at comcast.net Mon Mar 2 05:33:50 2009 From: bspiry at comcast.net (Bill Spiry) Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2009 21:33:50 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] LSAT Time limit In-Reply-To: <000001c99af2$e0267670$0401a8c0@DF5R2QD1> References: <000b01c9987d$66802d60$33808820$@net> <000001c99af2$e0267670$0401a8c0@DF5R2QD1> Message-ID: <000d01c99af8$783eac70$68bc0550$@net> Stephanie, your feedback is great. Thanks much. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Stephanie Enyart Sent: Sunday, March 01, 2009 8:54 PM To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Time limit Hi Bill, I used TestMasters to prepare for the LSAT. I bought an individual tutoring package. I felt they were friendly to blindness issues and know other blind people who have used them for preparation. Generally, blind people can get double time as an accommodation for the LSAT. A separate testing room, accessible clock/watch, and an amanuensis to complete the scantron sheet are also regularly approved accommodations for LSAT test takers who are blind. I also know one recent test taker who was able to take part of the test (which was all she/he asked for) on a computer equipped with Jaws. This person had to advocate for this accommodation but was successful in getting it for a test within the past year. As for the logic games section blind people ask for either a tactile drawing kit, a magnetic board with several sets of accessible magnetic letters or for those with low vision, some sort of large paper and markers or use of a CCTV to map out the games. Other accommodations blind/low vision people have received include: - use of a Braille note taking device - eye rest breaks - control of the lighting (including bringing your own lamps) - access to water - a human reader - a Braille test - enlarged scantron - large print test - use of a computer with Jaws and/or zoom text for the writing section Good luck with your test preparation! Stephanie Enyart -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Bill Spiry Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2009 5:48 PM To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Time limit Hi, I'll be taking the LSAT this June, wondering what you did to prepare for the test in terms of test prep training? Were you able to find any prep courses that were friendly to a person with blindness? Any input would be appreciated. In your request for accommodation in testing, what did you request for additional time? I look forward to hearing from you. Thanks. Bill Spiry 541-510-2623 Springfield Oregon -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of tim and vickie shaw Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2009 11:03 AM To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org Subject: [blindlaw] LSAT Time limit Man after taking the LSAT I have only two thoughts in mind. 1. I dont know how people without accoodations finish those sectiosn in the time they are allow. 2. Perhpas I wasnt given the extra time i was supposed to. I usually ask for extra time on tests, but this is the first time I have EVER used it, or i think i did. Usually i still finish well within the normal time limit, often beating meany people who werent given extra time. Since I wasnt allowed to wear a watch per the test rules I have no idea if I was given the extra time I was supposed to have or not. Oh well I finished everyting, jsut didnt have time to look back over my answer at all. _________________________________________________________________ Windows LiveT HotmailR:.more than just e-mail. http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t2_hm_justgotbetter_explore _022009 _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/bspiry%40comcast.n et _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stephanie_enyart%4 0yahoo.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/bspiry%40comcast.n et From LRovig at nfb.org Mon Mar 2 22:04:32 2009 From: LRovig at nfb.org (Rovig, Lorraine) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 17:04:32 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Why the Authors Guild Is Off-Base About the Kindle 2 Message-ID: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6B731B74@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local> FYI... Two well-reasoned blogs. 1. FW: Canadian copyright lawyer deplores Kindle 2 move by Amazon and authors; and 2. Why the Authors Guild Is Off-Base About the Kindle 2 ________________________________ 1. Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 11:24 AM Subject: Canadian copyright lawyer deplores Kindle 2 move by Amazon and authors >From a Google Alert: EXCESS COPYRIGHT: Amazon Caves on Kindle By Howard Knopf This is tough luck for the blind, for all consumers and for innovative technology. Amazon owes a better explanation. There may be a "Kindle Swindle" underway here - but it's the public interest that appears to be the most obvious victim ... EXCESS COPYRIGHT - http://excesscopyright.blogspot.com/ URL to Canadian copyright lawyer's blog: http://excesscopyright.blogspot.com/search?updated-min=2009-01-01T00%3A0 0%3A00-05%3A00&updated-max=2010-01-01T00%3A00%3A00-05%3A00&max-results=4 3 2. NOTE: The author of this blog is the CEO of Thomas Nelson Publishing, one of the top book publishers in the US. From: On Behalf Of Michael Hyatt Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 10:03 AM To: Rovig, Lorraine Subject: Michael Hyatt's Blog Michael Hyatt's Blog Why the Authors Guild Is Off-Base About the Kindle 2 Posted: 02 Mar 2009 04:00 AM PST As you may know, the Amazon Kindle 2 has the ability to read books out loud. The text is read by the computer, so it doesn't come close to a true audio book read by the author or an actor. However, I have found it to be surprisingly useful. For example, last week when I received my new Kindle 2, I wanted to read through the user's manual. (I know, I am one of those kind of people.) So, early one morning, I started reading in the conventional way-at least conventional for an eBook. Eventually, it was time to get ready for the day. But rather than closing the book, I turned on the text-to-speech function and listened to the book while I shaved. The Kindle started reading at the top of the current page and continued until I stopped it. When I finished getting ready, I resumed my normal reading, at exactly the point the text-to-speech function had stopped. Amazing. But surprisingly, Ray Blout, Jr., the president of the Authors Guild, argued last week in the New York Times that Amazon's text-to-speech function is an infringement of the rights holders' "audio rights." Personally, I don't think this argument is valid, nor is it in the best interests of authors or publishers to maintain this position. As Amazon itself has argued , no audio is recorded. In principle, it is no different than me handing my book to a friend and asking him to read it aloud to me. Nothing is recorded. Nothing is performed. In fact, reading the book aloud is only made possible because I bought the print (or in this case digital) version of the book. >From my point-of-view, this feature is actually an added value that serves to make reading more accessible by more people in more situations. It also enables me to get through the book more quickly, so I can go buy more books. This, at a time, when, quite frankly, reading needs all the help it can get. Unfortunately, as Seth Godin , himself a bestselling author, argued yesterday , trade associations like the Authors Guild often hurt their own members by attempting to preserve the status quo. Instead, they should be celebrating this innovation and working to facilitate it. In the end, I personally believe Amazon's text-to-speech function will only help to drive more book sales for everyone. Sadly for the industry, Amazon backed off its original position . It will now allow publishers to "turn off" the text-to-speech function on a title-by-title basis. Ultimately, this will only hurt readers and eventually authors and publishers. In the meantime, we at Thomas Nelson intend to leave the feature on. If other publishers turn it off, great. It will only serve to give us-and our authors-a competitive advantage. Related posts: 1. More Details on the Amazon Kindle 2. The New Amazon Kindle 2 Unboxed 3. Kindle: First Impressions 4. The Book 2.0 5. Advice to First-Time Authors You are subscribed to email updates from Michael Hyatt To stop receiving these emails, you may unsubscribe now . Email delivery powered by Google Inbox too full? Subscribe to the feed version of Michael Hyatt in a feed reader. If you prefer to unsubscribe via postal mail, write to: Michael Hyatt, c/o Google, 20 W Kinzie, Chicago IL USA 60610 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.gif Type: image/gif Size: 997 bytes Desc: image001.gif URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image007.gif Type: image/gif Size: 73 bytes Desc: image007.gif URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... 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Name: image011.gif Type: image/gif Size: 683 bytes Desc: image011.gif URL: From mikefry79 at gmail.com Tue Mar 3 01:36:43 2009 From: mikefry79 at gmail.com (Michael Fry) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 17:36:43 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] Why the Authors Guild Is Off-Base About the Kindle 2 In-Reply-To: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6B731B74@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local> References: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6B731B74@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local> Message-ID: <8c58e54a0903021736v4908591fy5388f84065fd864a@mail.gmail.com> The Kindle 2 and its inevitable imitations will be really good for us. On Mon, Mar 2, 2009 at 2:04 PM, Rovig, Lorraine wrote: > FYI... Two well-reasoned blogs. 1. FW: Canadian copyright lawyer > deplores Kindle 2 move by Amazon and authors; and > > 2. Why the Authors Guild Is Off-Base About the Kindle 2 > > ________________________________ > > > > 1. > > Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 11:24 AM > Subject: Canadian copyright lawyer deplores Kindle 2 move by Amazon and > authors > > > > >From a Google Alert: > > EXCESS COPYRIGHT: Amazon Caves on Kindle > > > By Howard Knopf > This is tough luck for the blind, for all consumers and for innovative > technology. Amazon owes a better explanation. There may be a "Kindle > Swindle" underway here - but it's the public interest that appears to be > the most obvious victim ... > EXCESS COPYRIGHT - http://excesscopyright.blogspot.com/ > > > URL to Canadian copyright lawyer's blog: > > http://excesscopyright.blogspot.com/search?updated-min=2009-01-01T00%3A0 > 0%3A00-05%3A00&updated-max=2010-01-01T00%3A00%3A00-05%3A00&max-results=4 > 3 > > > > > > 2. > > NOTE: The author of this blog is the CEO of Thomas Nelson Publishing, > one of the top book publishers in the US. > > > > From: On Behalf Of Michael Hyatt > Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 10:03 AM > To: Rovig, Lorraine > Subject: Michael Hyatt's Blog > > > > > Michael Hyatt's Blog > > > > > > Why the Authors Guild Is Off-Base About the Kindle 2 > ors-guild-is-off-base-about-the-kindle-2.html> > > Posted: 02 Mar 2009 04:00 AM PST > > As you may know, the Amazon Kindle 2 > has the > ability to read books out loud. The text is read by the computer, so it > doesn't come close to a true audio book read by the author or an actor. > However, I have found it to be surprisingly useful. > > For example, last week when I received my new Kindle 2, I wanted to read > through the user's manual. (I know, I am one of those kind of people.) > So, early one morning, I started reading in the conventional way-at > least conventional for an eBook. > > Eventually, it was time to get ready for the day. But rather than > closing the book, I turned on the text-to-speech function and listened > to the book while I shaved. The Kindle started reading at the top of the > current page and continued until I stopped it. When I finished getting > ready, I resumed my normal reading, at exactly the point the > text-to-speech function had stopped. Amazing. > > But surprisingly, Ray Blout, Jr., the president of the Authors Guild, > argued last week in the New York Times > that > Amazon's text-to-speech function is an infringement of the rights > holders' "audio rights." Personally, I don't think this argument is > valid, nor is it in the best interests of authors or publishers to > maintain this position. > > As Amazon itself has argued > h-feature-in-kindle/> , no audio is recorded. In principle, it is no > different than me handing my book to a friend and asking him to read it > aloud to me. Nothing is recorded. Nothing is performed. In fact, reading > the book aloud is only made possible because I bought the print (or in > this case digital) version of the book. > > >From my point-of-view, this feature is actually an added value that > serves to make reading more accessible by more people in more > situations. It also enables me to get through the book more quickly, so > I can go buy more books. This, at a time, when, quite frankly, reading > needs all the help it can get. > > Unfortunately, as Seth Godin , himself a > bestselling author, argued yesterday > maintaining-the-status-quo.html> , trade associations like the Authors > Guild often hurt their own members by attempting to preserve the status > quo. Instead, they should be celebrating this innovation and working to > facilitate it. In the end, I personally believe Amazon's text-to-speech > function will only help to drive more book sales for everyone. > > Sadly for the industry, Amazon backed off its original position > h-feature-in-kindle/> . It will now allow publishers to "turn off" the > text-to-speech function on a title-by-title basis. Ultimately, this will > only hurt readers and eventually authors and publishers. > > In the meantime, we at Thomas Nelson intend to leave the feature on. If > other publishers turn it off, great. It will only serve to give us-and > our authors-a competitive advantage. > > Related posts: > > 1. More Details on the Amazon Kindle > > > > 2. The New Amazon Kindle 2 Unboxed > > > 3. Kindle: First Impressions > > > 4. The Book 2.0 > > > 5. Advice to First-Time Authors > > > > :yIl2AUoC8zA> > :D7DqB2pKExk> > :F7zBnMyn0Lo> > :qj6IDK7rITs> > > > > > > You are subscribed to email updates from Michael Hyatt > > To stop receiving these emails, you may unsubscribe now > he4RrYDI> . > > Email delivery powered by Google > > Inbox too full? Subscribe > to the feed version of > Michael Hyatt in a feed reader. > > If you prefer to unsubscribe via postal mail, write to: Michael Hyatt, > c/o Google, 20 W Kinzie, Chicago IL USA 60610 > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mikefry79%40gmail.com > > From carter.tjoseph at gmail.com Tue Mar 3 07:25:27 2009 From: carter.tjoseph at gmail.com (T. Joseph Carter) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 23:25:27 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] Why the Authors Guild Is Off-Base About the Kindle 2 In-Reply-To: <8c58e54a0903021736v4908591fy5388f84065fd864a@mail.gmail.com> References: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6B731B74@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local> <8c58e54a0903021736v4908591fy5388f84065fd864a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090303072527.GA32578@yumi.bluecherry.net> Why will the Kindle 2 being artificially crippled be good for us? On Mon, Mar 02, 2009 at 05:36:43PM -0800, Michael Fry wrote: >The Kindle 2 and its inevitable imitations will be really good for us. From mikefry79 at gmail.com Tue Mar 3 16:10:11 2009 From: mikefry79 at gmail.com (Michael Fry) Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2009 08:10:11 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] Why the Authors Guild Is Off-Base About the Kindle 2 In-Reply-To: <20090303072527.GA32578@yumi.bluecherry.net> References: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6B731B74@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local> <8c58e54a0903021736v4908591fy5388f84065fd864a@mail.gmail.com> <20090303072527.GA32578@yumi.bluecherry.net> Message-ID: <8c58e54a0903030810l666c5172kfac8a2b9e1cc0b07@mail.gmail.com> No, I didn't say that Joe. I meant the Kindle 2 will be good for us. Its artificial crippling will be very bad. I was just pointing out the obvious. On Mon, Mar 2, 2009 at 11:25 PM, T. Joseph Carter wrote: > Why will the Kindle 2 being artificially crippled be good for us? > > On Mon, Mar 02, 2009 at 05:36:43PM -0800, Michael Fry wrote: > >> The Kindle 2 and its inevitable imitations will be really good for us. >> > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mikefry79%40gmail.com > From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov Tue Mar 3 16:53:54 2009 From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel) Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2009 10:53:54 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] FW: Upcoming TIPS Program: Providing Persons with Disabilities and the Elderly with Equal Access to Justice Message-ID: F YI, blindlaw ________________________________ From: TIPS - Tort Trial & Insurance Practice Section [mailto:tips at abanet.org] Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 3:42 PM To: Subject: Upcoming TIPS Program: Providing Persons with Disabilities and the Elderly with Equal Access to Justice [http://www.abanet.org/tips/market/images/abablogo-emails5.gif][http://www.abanet.org/tips/market/images/tipstiny.jpg]Save The Date! An Exciting New Program You Won't Want to Miss Providing Persons with Disabilities and the Elderly with Equal Access to Justice Presented by the American Bar Association TIPS Standing Committee on Diversity in the Profession, Animal Law Committee and Stetson University College of Law A special thank you to our Sponsors, Carlton Fields and The Center for Special Needs Trust Administration, for hosting the program's social events. [http://www.abanet.org/tips/market/dog.jpg][http://www.abanet.org/tips/market/button.jpg][http://www.abanet.org/tips/market/cane.jpg][http://www.abanet.org/tips/market/wheelchair.jpg] Monday, May 18, 2009 William R. Eleazer Courtroom at Stetson University College of Law Gulfport, FL Don't miss your chance to attend this special one-day program that will address the unexplored and underdeveloped topic of making the litigation process more accessible for the elderly and persons with disabilities. Taking place at the William R. Eleazer Courtroom at Stetson University College of Law, a one-of-a-kind model courtroom showcasing how design and technology can address accessibility issues for individuals with disabilities and the elderly, this program will focus on courtroom design, the use of service animals, jury selection and access for jurors, parties, attorneys and judges. In addition, this program will feature a myriad of top-notch speakers who are leaders and experts in the field. A Glance at Some of the Program's Top-Notch Speakers: ? Matthew Dietz: P.L., Law Offices of Matthew Dietz, Miami, FL ? Professor Rebecca Morgan: Faculty Chair in Elder Law, Stetson University College of Law, Gulfport, FL ? George Richards: Chief Assistant Statewide Prosecutor, Florida Office of Statewide Prosecution, Fort Myers, FL ? Hon. Rosalyn Richter: New York Supreme Court County, New York, NY ? Marygrace Schaeffer: Vice President, DecisionQuest, Minneapolis, MN ? Page Ulrey: Senior Deputy Prosecuting Attorney, Courthouse Dog Program, King County Prosecutor's Office, Seattle, WA This program is co-sponsored by the TIPS General Committees of Health and Disability Insurance Law, Law Practice Management and Government Law, ABA Judicial Division, ABA Government and Public Sector Lawyers Division, ABA Commission on Mental and Physical Disability Law, ABA Criminal Justice Section, ABA Commission on Aging, ABA Senior Lawyers Division, ABA Section of Real Property, Trusts and Estates and The National Academy of Elder Law Attorneys. Be sure to set aside May 18th, 2009 for this program, which will also feature a live webcast! Additional details and registration information to follow. To learn more about TIPS or to join, click here. This page's menu: ________________________________ Your e-mail address will only be used within the ABA and its entities. We do not sell or rent e-mail addresses to anyone outside the ABA. Update your profile | Unsubscribe | Privacy Policy American Bar Association | 321 N Clark | Chicago, IL 60654 | 1-800-285-2221 --------- [http://www.abanet.org/disability/images/3Dlogo.jpg] Disability Discussion Docket (3D) ABA Commission on Mental and Physical Disability Law http://www.abanet.org/disability --------- To leave this list at any time, please send a message to listserv at mail.abanet.org. In the body of the message type "sign off cmpdl-3d." If you have any questions about 3D or the CMPDL in general, please contact William Phelan at phelanw at staff.abanet.org. From Tim.Ford at cdph.ca.gov Tue Mar 3 18:35:12 2009 From: Tim.Ford at cdph.ca.gov (Ford, Tim (CDPH-OLS)) Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2009 10:35:12 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] Simple Westlaw Site In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <839F18076C66C345BD1C0A4ACA67A1F60315B35F@dhsexcmsg12.intra.dhs.ca.gov> HI All, This may be old news, but I just learned that Westlaw has a version of its web site designed for wireless devices, hence it is extremely simple and clean. I did a sample search and it seems fine with JAWS. It is: www.wireless.westlaw.com Perhaps someone who needs to go on to Westlaw could check it out and report to the rest of us? Is it any better or easier than text.westlaw.com? Sincerely, Tim Ford From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov Tue Mar 3 21:35:39 2009 From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel) Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2009 15:35:39 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] FW: Attorney Vacancies at the U.S. Department of Justice Message-ID: ________________________________ From: jobs-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:jobs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Maurer, Patricia Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 11:47 AM To: jobs at nfbnet.org Subject: [Jobs] FW: Attorney Vacancies at the U.S. Department of Justice ________________________________ From: Hunter, Sue [mailto:Sue.Hunter at usdoj.gov] Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 2:28 PM To: nedy at wyjlaw.com; newmedia at ja.org; Neysas at dnfsb.gov; Maurer, Patricia; nijc at aol.com; nlove at opd.state.md.us; nmcconnell at jackscamp.com; noconnell at tabinc.org; noryrp at cox.net; nromulus at gmail.com; ntb at boglechang.com; ocaaba at cox.net; omanager at lawyerscomm.org; palsd at hotmail.com; patel at fr.com; pchanster at yahoo.com; pchapman at koonz.com; pgrewal at daycasebeer.com; pkim at lordbissell.com; Maurer, Patricia; pmorrison at state.wv.us; poppy.johnston at unlv.edu; president at abaw.org; president at apabala.org Subject: FW: Attorney Vacancies at the U.S. Department of Justice To learn more about our attorneys and what they like most about working at DOJ, please visit our attorney profiles at, http://www.usdoj.gov/oarm/arm/profiles.htm, and the video clips of our attorneys and interns available at https://www.avuedigitalservices.com/ads/jobsatdojoarm/index.jsp We encourage you to share this email with interested colleagues and peers. If you no longer wish to receive these periodic email announcements, please respond to this email address and ask to be removed from our mailing list. Thank you. Current Department of Justice Attorney Vacancies * UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE EASTERN DISTRICT OF CALIFORNIA ASSISTANT UNITED STATES ATTORNEY FRESNO, CALIFORNIA MARCH 2, 2009 09-EDCA-04A Applications should be postmarked no later than March 6, 2009. Date posted: 03-02-2009 * U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE OFFICE OF U.S. TRUSTEES WASHINGTON, D.C. SUPERVISORY TRIAL ATTORNEY/GS-15 Applications must be postmarked by midnight of the closing date of the announcement March 24, 2009. Date posted: 02-27-2009 * U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE U.S. TRUSTEE'S OFFICE -- NEW YORK, NEW YORK EXPERIENCED ATTORNEY/GS-14 to GS-15 This position will be open until March 03, 2009. Date posted: 02-27-2009 * ASSISTANT UNITED STATES ATTORNEY UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE EASTERN DISTRICT OF TENNESSEE VACANCY ANNOUNCEMENT #09-EDTN-AUSA-05 Applications must be received by Friday, March 20, 2009. Date posted: 02-25-2009 * ASSISTANT UNITED STATES ATTORNEY UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE Western District of Oklahoma 09-WDOK-11 Applications will be accepted until March 13, 2009. Date posted: 02-24-2009 * ASSISTANT UNITED STATES ATTORNEY UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE Western District of Oklahoma 09-WDOK-10 Applications will be accepted until March 13, 2009. Date posted: 02-24-2009 * U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE CRIMINAL DIVISION OFFICE OF OVERSEAS PROSECUTORIAL DEVELOPMENT, ASSISTANCE AND TRAINING EXPERIENCED ATTORNEY / GS-14 to GS-15 (Indonesia) Applications will be accepted until the position is filled. Date posted: 02-20-2009 * U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE CRIMINAL DIVISION OFFICE OF OVERSEAS PROSECUTORIAL DEVELOPMENT, ASSISTANCE AND TRAINING EXPERIENCED ATTORNEY / GS-14 to GS-15 (Albania) Applications will be accepted until the position is filled. Date posted: 02-20-2009 * U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE EXECUTIVE OFFICE FOR U.S. TRUSTEES WASHINGTON, D.C.(2) EXPERIENCED TRIAL ATTORNEYS (APPELLATE)/GS-14/15 ANNOUNCEMENT NO. 09-07-14003 Applications must be postmarked by the closing date of March 13, 2009. Date posted: 02-20-2009 * U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE EXECUTIVE OFFICE FOR U.S. TRUSTEES WASHINGTON, D.C.(2) EXPERIENCED ATTORNEYS (GENERAL ADMINISTRATIVE LAW)/GS-13/14/15 ANNOUNCEMENT NO. 09-07-14002 Applications must be postmarked by the closing date of March 13, 2009. Date posted: 02-20-2009 * U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE EXECUTIVE OFFICE FOR U.S. TRUSTEES WASHINGTON, D.C.(2) EXPERIENCED TRIAL ATTORNEYS/GS-15 ANNOUNCEMENT NO. 09-07-14001 Applications must be postmarked by the closing date of March 13, 2009. Date posted: 02-20-2009 * U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE OFFICE OF LEGAL COUNSEL EXPERIENCED ATTORNEYS GS-12 to GS-15 These positions are open until filled. Date posted: 02-19-2009 * EXPERIENCED FOREIGN CORRUPT PRACTICES ACT (FCPA) ENFORCEMENT ATTORNEY (GS-0905-13/14/15) FRAUD SECTION CRIMINAL DIVISION U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE WASHINGTON, DC VACANCY ANNOUNCEMENT: 09-CRM-FRD-005 This announcement is open until March 13, 2009. Date Posted: 02-19-2009 * U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE CRIMINAL DIVISION OFFICE OF OVERSEAS PROSECUTORIAL DEVELOPMENT, ASSISTANCE AND TRAINING EXPERIENCED ATTORNEY / GS-14 to GS-15 This assignment will commence in June 2009 and is for a term of one year. Date Posted: 02-17-2009 * ASSISTANT UNITED STATES ATTORNEY UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE EASTERN DISTRICT OF NEW YORK BROOKLYN, NEW YORK Position(s) open until filled. Date Posted: 02-17-2009 * ASSISTANT UNITED STATES ATTORNEY (CIVIL) UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF FLORIDA MIAMI, FLORIDA This position is opened until filled. Date Posted: 02-17-2009 * ASSISTANT UNITED STATES ATTORNEY (CRIMINAL) UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF FLORIDA MIAMI, FLORIDA This position is opened until filled. Date Posted: 02-17-2009 * DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE RESIDENT LEGAL ADVISOR IN IRAQ GS-905-15 OFFICE OF OVERSEAS PROSECUTORIAL DEVELOPMENT, ASSISTANCE AND TRAINING (OPDAT) CRIMINAL DIVISION WASHINGTON, D.C. Announcement Number: 09-CRM-OPDAT-004 Application Deadline: Open until filled. Date posted: 02-17-2009 * DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE RESIDENT LEGAL ADVISOR IN IRAQ OFFICE OF OVERSEAS PROSECUTORIAL DEVELOPMENT, ASSISTANCE AND TRAINING (OPDAT) CRIMINAL DIVISION WASHINGTON, D.C. Announcement Number: 09-CRM-DET-002 Application Deadline: Open until filled. Date posted: 02-17-2009 The purpose of this email is to advise potential interested persons of employment opportunities at the Department of Justice. The Department of Justice cannot control further dissemination and/or posting of this information. Such posting and/or dissemination is not an endorsement by the Department of the organization or group disseminating and/or posting the information. -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Jobs mailing list Jobs at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/jobs_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Jobs: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/jobs_nfbnet.org/noel.nightingale%40ed.gov From angie at mpmail.net Tue Mar 3 23:18:41 2009 From: angie at mpmail.net (Angie Matney) Date: Tue, 03 Mar 2009 18:18:41 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Simple Westlaw Site In-Reply-To: <839F18076C66C345BD1C0A4ACA67A1F60315B35F@dhsexcmsg12.intra.dhs.ca.gov> Message-ID: Hi Tim, Thanks for posting the link. It looks similar to text.westlaw.com to me. Like text.westlaw.com, it fails to provide supplemental results, and you can't see snippets of a result without clicking on it. But it might be great when I need to look things up on my phone. Angie On Tue, 3 Mar 2009 10:35:12 -0800, Ford, Tim (CDPH-OLS) wrote: >HI All, >This may be old news, but I just learned that Westlaw has a version of >its web site designed for wireless devices, hence it is extremely simple >and clean. I did a sample search and it seems fine with JAWS. It is: >www.wireless.westlaw.com >Perhaps someone who needs to go on to Westlaw could check it out and >report to the rest of us? Is it any better or easier than >text.westlaw.com? >Sincerely, >Tim Ford >_______________________________________________ >blindlaw mailing list >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie%40mpmail.net From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov Wed Mar 4 00:22:14 2009 From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel) Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2009 18:22:14 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] ABA Report: Disability Diversity Statistics 2009 Message-ID: Link: http://www.abanet.org/disability/docs/ABADisabilityStatisticsReport.pdf 2009 Disability Diversity Statistics: Taking data from the 2009 Goal III Report, this document is a compilation of statistics on individuals and lawyers with disabilities, their employment, and the legal profession. It is not specific to the ABA, and provides data sources from outside the ABA. This report is a great resource for those seeking general information on those with disabilities and the legal profession. From rumpole at roadrunner.com Wed Mar 4 02:01:22 2009 From: rumpole at roadrunner.com (Ross Doerr) Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2009 21:01:22 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] ABA Report: Disability Diversity Statistics 2009 References: Message-ID: That is an interesting report Noel - thank you for posting it. I am not a member of the ABA- so my status as a working attorney is not reflected there. But I must say that those overall, national employment statistics for all fields of employment are a bit discouraging. I note that report pre-dates the depression we are presently in. Note I said depression, not recession. I don't work in Washington. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nightingale, Noel" To: Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 7:22 PM Subject: [blindlaw] ABA Report: Disability Diversity Statistics 2009 > > Link: > http://www.abanet.org/disability/docs/ABADisabilityStatisticsReport.pdf > > 2009 Disability Diversity Statistics: Taking data from the 2009 Goal III > Report, this document is a compilation of statistics on individuals and > lawyers with disabilities, their employment, and the legal profession. It > is not specific to the ABA, and provides data sources from outside the > ABA. This report is a great resource for those seeking general information > on those with disabilities and the legal profession. > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rumpole%40roadrunner.com From info at michaelhingson.com Thu Mar 5 17:52:09 2009 From: info at michaelhingson.com (Michael Hingson) Date: Thu, 05 Mar 2009 12:52:09 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] KNFB Reader Mobile to be demonstrated on Tek Talk Training this Saturday, March 7, 2009 Message-ID: KNFB Reader Mobile to be demonstrated on Tek Talk Training this Saturday, March 7, 2009 Tek Talk Training special time Saturday March 7, 2009 This Saturday Michael Hingson, Director of National KnfbReader Mobile Sales for the National Federation of the Blind will demonstrate the exciting KnfbReader Mobile Reader product line for the blind and learning disabled - featuring the first cell phone that reads and translates print into voice. The knfb Reader Mobile is a major advancement in print access for the Blind. The software, delivered on a multifunction cell phone, allows the user To snap pictures of any printed material and have it read aloud immediately. The first of its kind, the pocket-sized device allows individuals to Have print analyzed and read aloud in real time and in real life situations. The latest version is now able to read in a variety of languages Including French, German, Dutch, Belgian Dutch, Italian, and Castilian. Additionally, the software is able to translate between languages, displaying and reading aloud translated text. Contact: Michael Hingson Email: info at michaelhingson.com 888-965-9191 Date: Saturday March 7, 2009. Time: 10:00 a.m. and 1:00 P.M Pacific, 11:00 a.m. and 2:00 P.M. Mountain, 12:00 p.m. and 3:00 P.M. Central, 1:00 p.m. and 4:00 p.m. Eastern and elsewhere in the world 18:00 and 21:00 GMT. Where: Tek Talk Conference Room at: http://conference321.com/masteradmin/room.asp?id=rsc9613dc89eb2 Or, alternatively, http://www.accessibleworld.org names on the sign-in screen. We will record at least one of the events and put it on Michael Hingson's web site http://knfbreader.michaelhingson.com so if you are unable to participate live at the above times then you may download the presentation or podcast from the website listed above. All online interactive programs require no password, are free of Charge, and open to anyone worldwide having an Internet connection, a Computer, speakers, and a sound card. Those with microphones can interact audibly with the presenters and others in the virtual audience. If you are a first-time user of the Talking Communities online conferencing software, there is a small, safe software program that you need to download and then run. A link to the software is available on every entry screen to the Accessible World online rooms. Sign up information for all Accessible World News Wires and discussion lists are also available at the Accessible World website: http://www.accessibleworld.org Media Contacts for Accessible World: Robert Acosta, Chair, Planning Committee 818-998-0044 Email: boacosta at pacbell.net <http://us.mc836.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=boacosta at pacbell.net Web: http://www.helpinghands4theblind.com George Buys CEO. Talking Communities Email: buys at talkingcommunities.com <mailto:buys at talkingcommunities.com We wish to thank the Accessible world for permitting us to use its conference room for these demonstrations of the KnfbReader Mobile. The Accessible World, a division of Vision Worldwide, Inc. a 501(c) (3) not-for-profit organization, seeks to educate the general public, the disabled community and the professionals who serve them by providing highly relevant information about new products, services, and training opportunities designed specifically to eliminate geographic and access barriers that adversely affect them. The Michael Hingson Group "Speaking with Vision" Michael Hingson, President (415) 827-4084 info at michaelhingson.com www.michaelhingson.com for info on the new KNFB Reader Mobile, visit: http://knfbreader.michaelhingson.com http://michaelhingson.com/images/knfbReader-michael_hingson.jpg -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 16fb5c.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 3059 bytes Desc: not available URL: From JMcCarthy at nfb.org Thu Mar 5 19:13:59 2009 From: JMcCarthy at nfb.org (McCarthy, Jim) Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 14:13:59 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Register Now for the 2009 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium, Message-ID: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6B26D604@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local> I have been asked to share the announcement that follows with this list. Register Now for the 2009 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium, New Perspectives on Disability Law: Advancing the Right to Live in the World The 2009 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium will take place on April 17th at the National Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute in Baltimore. Don't miss this exciting opportunity to interact with leading scholars, government officials, and advocates. The presenters for the 2009 symposium are: * A leading Obama administration spokesperson on disability policy; * Maura Healey, Assistant Attorney General and Chief, Office of Civil Rights, Commonwealth of Massachusetts; * Amy Robertson and Timothy Fox, Principals, Fox & Robertson, P.C.; * Gerard Quinn, Professor of Law, National University of Ireland, Galway; * Katherine Guernsey, International Lawyer and Adjunct Professor, American University School of International Service; * Samuel Bagenstos, Visiting Professor of Law, University of Michigan Law School; * Christine Griffin, Commissioner, United States Equal Employment Opportunity Commission; and * Peter Blanck, University Professor and Chairman, Burton Blatt Institute at Syracuse University. To view the full agenda, register online, or download the registration form to register by mail or fax, visit the symposium web page at http://www.nfb.org/nfb/Law_Symposium.asp. Hotel information may also be found on the symposium Web page. The registration fee is $150; students may register for $20. A limited number of scholarships to cover the registration fee will be available to individuals with demonstrated financial need. The deadline to register is April 10, 2009. Symposium attendees will be provided documentation for CLE credit. Individuals will be responsible for filing the application for CLE credit with their state board. The 2009 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium is sponsored by the National Federation of the Blind, the American Bar Association Commission on Mental and Physical Disability Law, the Maryland Department of Disability, and the Texas Journal on Civil Liberties and Civil Rights. For additional information about the symposium, contact: Lou Ann Blake, Law Symposium Coordinator National Federation of the Blind Telephone: (410) 659-9314, ext. 2221 E-mail: lblake at nfb.org From rumpole at roadrunner.com Thu Mar 5 23:28:51 2009 From: rumpole at roadrunner.com (Ross Doerr) Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 18:28:51 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] ABA report on employment of lawyers with disabilities Message-ID: <3CDD15A2612F4EB3AF6B89463319B295@Rosslaptop> Does anyone have the link to that ABA report on employment of PWD in the legal profession? IT was posted here not too long ago, and I seem to have deleted it by mistake. Thanks. From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Fri Mar 6 06:29:27 2009 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 22:29:27 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] Fw: ABA Report: Disability Diversity Statistics 2009 Message-ID: <3515503A1A25403C8C3F718A17841E31@spike> Here is the original posting for the report. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nightingale, Noel" To: Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 4:22 PM Subject: [blindlaw] ABA Report: Disability Diversity Statistics 2009 > > Link: > http://www.abanet.org/disability/docs/ABADisabilityStatisticsReport.pdf > > 2009 Disability Diversity Statistics: Taking data from the 2009 Goal III > Report, this document is a compilation of statistics on individuals and > lawyers with disabilities, their employment, and the legal profession. It > is not specific to the ABA, and provides data sources from outside the > ABA. This report is a great resource for those seeking general information > on those with disabilities and the legal profession. > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net From angie at mpmail.net Fri Mar 6 12:57:57 2009 From: angie at mpmail.net (Angie Matney) Date: Fri, 06 Mar 2009 07:57:57 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] ABA report on employment of lawyers with disabilities In-Reply-To: <3CDD15A2612F4EB3AF6B89463319B295@Rosslaptop> Message-ID: Hi Ross, Here's the link: http://www.abanet.org/disability/docs/ABADisabilityStatisticsReport.pdf Angie From rumpole at roadrunner.com Fri Mar 6 10:08:54 2009 From: rumpole at roadrunner.com (Ross Doerr) Date: Fri, 6 Mar 2009 05:08:54 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Fw: ABA Report: Disability Diversity Statistics 2009 References: <3515503A1A25403C8C3F718A17841E31@spike> Message-ID: Thank you Chuck, I appreciate it. Ross ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Friday, March 06, 2009 1:29 AM Subject: [blindlaw] Fw: ABA Report: Disability Diversity Statistics 2009 > Here is the original posting for the report. > Chuck > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Nightingale, Noel" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 4:22 PM > Subject: [blindlaw] ABA Report: Disability Diversity Statistics 2009 > > >> >> Link: >> http://www.abanet.org/disability/docs/ABADisabilityStatisticsReport.pdf >> >> 2009 Disability Diversity Statistics: Taking data from the 2009 Goal III >> Report, this document is a compilation of statistics on individuals and >> lawyers with disabilities, their employment, and the legal profession. It >> is not specific to the ABA, and provides data sources from outside the >> ABA. This report is a great resource for those seeking general >> information on those with disabilities and the legal profession. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rumpole%40adelphia.net From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov Fri Mar 6 17:20:53 2009 From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel) Date: Fri, 6 Mar 2009 11:20:53 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] FW: Law Students Report Positive Reaction to No-Laptop Policy, ABA Journal, March 5, 2009 Message-ID: Blindlaw listers: This article struck me as showing one edge blind law students and lawyers may have over their sighted counterparts, who apparently need to look at their screens rather than at the person who is speaking! Noel Link: http://www.abajournal.com/weekly/law_students_report_positive_reaction_to_no-laptop_policy Text: Law Students Report Positive Reaction to No-Laptop Policy Posted Mar 5, 2009 By Debra Cassens Weiss A law professor who banned laptops in his first-year criminal law class surveyed his students about their reaction-and found it was generally positive. UCLA law professor Eugene Volokh had the results in a memo to his collegues (PDF) and on his blog, The Volokh Conspiracy. Seventy-one percent of the students who responded reported the policy had a strongly positive or slightly positive effect on their concentration in class. Fifty-four percent said it had a positive effect on their overall enjoyment of the course. Only 36 percent reported a positive influence on learning, though; 41 percent said the experience was neutral in regard to learning. One student pointed out that the experiment had a negative effect on trees. The student's e-mail to Volokh said those who brief cases on their computers have to print out their notes for class. And those who want their class notes neatly typed and available on their laptop have to transcribe classroom notes. While students were positive, Volokh said he noted no material differences in classroom discussions. He suspects 1Ls tend to be engaged, and they often find criminal law particularly interesting. He wonders if the results would be different in classes with little voluntary class participation. Earlier this week on Prawfsblawg, Howard Wasserman, an associate law professor at Florida International University, noted that his own classroom laptop ban was going better than he had hoped. "I never realized how much I missed eye contact," Wasserman wrote. "Even the bored and checked-out students at least look up at me. And when students have to look up, you can get a sense from their eyes as to whether they are 'getting' what you were talking about and adjust accordingly. I also never realized how loud keyboards are when 75 students are typing simultaneously." He noted that he'll have to wait for class evaluations at the end of the semester to see what his students think of the ban. From chatter8712 at gmail.com Fri Mar 6 17:24:58 2009 From: chatter8712 at gmail.com (Shane D) Date: Fri, 6 Mar 2009 12:24:58 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] FW: Law Students Report Positive Reaction to No-Laptop Policy, ABA Journal, March 5, 2009 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7556b95a0903060924p4ebe301m9550c91abf413c4d@mail.gmail.com> That could be a harmful practice to a blind person in the class, though. I'm sure they'd have to make the exception in that case. On 3/6/09, Nightingale, Noel wrote: > Blindlaw listers: > > This article struck me as showing one edge blind law students and lawyers > may have over their sighted counterparts, who apparently need to look at > their screens rather than at the person who is speaking! > > Noel > > > > Link: > http://www.abajournal.com/weekly/law_students_report_positive_reaction_to_no-laptop_policy > > Text: > Law Students Report Positive Reaction to No-Laptop Policy > Posted Mar 5, 2009 > By Debra Cassens Weiss > > A law professor who banned laptops in his first-year criminal law class > surveyed his students about their reaction-and found it was generally > positive. > > UCLA law professor Eugene Volokh had the results in a memo to his collegues > (PDF) and on his blog, The Volokh Conspiracy. > > Seventy-one percent of the students who responded reported the policy had a > strongly positive or slightly positive effect on their concentration in > class. Fifty-four percent said it had a positive effect on their overall > enjoyment of the course. > > Only 36 percent reported a positive influence on learning, though; 41 > percent said the experience was neutral in regard to learning. > > One student pointed out that the experiment had a negative effect on trees. > The student's e-mail to Volokh said those who brief cases on their computers > have to print out their notes for class. And those who want their class > notes neatly typed and available on their laptop have to transcribe > classroom notes. > > While students were positive, Volokh said he noted no material differences > in classroom discussions. He suspects 1Ls tend to be engaged, and they often > find criminal law particularly interesting. He wonders if the results would > be different in classes with little voluntary class participation. > > Earlier this week on Prawfsblawg, Howard Wasserman, an associate law > professor at Florida International University, noted that his own classroom > laptop ban was going better than he had hoped. > > "I never realized how much I missed eye contact," Wasserman wrote. "Even the > bored and checked-out students at least look up at me. And when students > have to look up, you can get a sense from their eyes as to whether they are > 'getting' what you were talking about and adjust accordingly. I also never > realized how loud keyboards are when 75 students are typing simultaneously." > > He noted that he'll have to wait for class evaluations at the end of the > semester to see what his students think of the ban. > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/chatter8712%40gmail.com > -- -Shane Website: http://www.blind-geek.com AIM: inhaddict MSN: shane at blind-geek.com Skype: chatter8712 Twitter: blind_geek From bspiry at comcast.net Fri Mar 6 19:17:15 2009 From: bspiry at comcast.net (Bill Spiry) Date: Fri, 6 Mar 2009 11:17:15 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] FW: Law Students Report Positive Reaction to No-Laptop Policy, ABA Journal, March 5, 2009 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <003601c99e90$29948bd0$7cbda370$@net> Interesting. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Nightingale, Noel Sent: Friday, March 06, 2009 9:21 AM To: 'blindlaw at nfbnet.org' Subject: [blindlaw] FW: Law Students Report Positive Reaction to No-Laptop Policy, ABA Journal, March 5, 2009 Blindlaw listers: This article struck me as showing one edge blind law students and lawyers may have over their sighted counterparts, who apparently need to look at their screens rather than at the person who is speaking! Noel Link: http://www.abajournal.com/weekly/law_students_report_positive_reaction_to_no -laptop_policy Text: Law Students Report Positive Reaction to No-Laptop Policy Posted Mar 5, 2009 By Debra Cassens Weiss A law professor who banned laptops in his first-year criminal law class surveyed his students about their reaction-and found it was generally positive. UCLA law professor Eugene Volokh had the results in a memo to his collegues (PDF) and on his blog, The Volokh Conspiracy. Seventy-one percent of the students who responded reported the policy had a strongly positive or slightly positive effect on their concentration in class. Fifty-four percent said it had a positive effect on their overall enjoyment of the course. Only 36 percent reported a positive influence on learning, though; 41 percent said the experience was neutral in regard to learning. One student pointed out that the experiment had a negative effect on trees. The student's e-mail to Volokh said those who brief cases on their computers have to print out their notes for class. And those who want their class notes neatly typed and available on their laptop have to transcribe classroom notes. While students were positive, Volokh said he noted no material differences in classroom discussions. He suspects 1Ls tend to be engaged, and they often find criminal law particularly interesting. He wonders if the results would be different in classes with little voluntary class participation. Earlier this week on Prawfsblawg, Howard Wasserman, an associate law professor at Florida International University, noted that his own classroom laptop ban was going better than he had hoped. "I never realized how much I missed eye contact," Wasserman wrote. "Even the bored and checked-out students at least look up at me. And when students have to look up, you can get a sense from their eyes as to whether they are 'getting' what you were talking about and adjust accordingly. I also never realized how loud keyboards are when 75 students are typing simultaneously." He noted that he'll have to wait for class evaluations at the end of the semester to see what his students think of the ban. _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/bspiry%40comcast.n et From rjtlawfirm at yahoo.com Fri Mar 6 19:56:18 2009 From: rjtlawfirm at yahoo.com (Russell J. Thomas, Jr) Date: Fri, 6 Mar 2009 11:56:18 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] FW: Law Students Report Positive Reaction to No-Laptop Policy, ABA Journal, March 5, 2009 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <000601c99e95$9dcf8b30$6901a8c0@RThomas> This is a step backward for any blind person who prefers to take notes on a laptop. This is stone-age thinking. Is this prof's ego so big, that he somehow feels slighted if his students are not looking at him? Respectfully, Russell J. Thomas, Jr. THOMAS & ASSOCIATES www.employersattorneys.com Orange County Office 4121 Westerly Place, Suite 101 Newport Beach, California 92660 T: (949) 752-0101 F: (949) 257-4756 M: (949) 466-7238 Beverly Hills Office 9107 Wilshire Boulevard, Suite 450 Beverly Hills, California 90210 T: (310) 461-3561 -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Nightingale, Noel Sent: Friday, March 06, 2009 9:21 AM To: 'blindlaw at nfbnet.org' Subject: [blindlaw] FW: Law Students Report Positive Reaction to No-Laptop Policy, ABA Journal, March 5, 2009 Blindlaw listers: This article struck me as showing one edge blind law students and lawyers may have over their sighted counterparts, who apparently need to look at their screens rather than at the person who is speaking! Noel Link: http://www.abajournal.com/weekly/law_students_report_positive_reaction_to_no -laptop_policy Text: Law Students Report Positive Reaction to No-Laptop Policy Posted Mar 5, 2009 By Debra Cassens Weiss A law professor who banned laptops in his first-year criminal law class surveyed his students about their reaction-and found it was generally positive. UCLA law professor Eugene Volokh had the results in a memo to his collegues (PDF) and on his blog, The Volokh Conspiracy. Seventy-one percent of the students who responded reported the policy had a strongly positive or slightly positive effect on their concentration in class. Fifty-four percent said it had a positive effect on their overall enjoyment of the course. Only 36 percent reported a positive influence on learning, though; 41 percent said the experience was neutral in regard to learning. One student pointed out that the experiment had a negative effect on trees. The student's e-mail to Volokh said those who brief cases on their computers have to print out their notes for class. And those who want their class notes neatly typed and available on their laptop have to transcribe classroom notes. While students were positive, Volokh said he noted no material differences in classroom discussions. He suspects 1Ls tend to be engaged, and they often find criminal law particularly interesting. He wonders if the results would be different in classes with little voluntary class participation. Earlier this week on Prawfsblawg, Howard Wasserman, an associate law professor at Florida International University, noted that his own classroom laptop ban was going better than he had hoped. "I never realized how much I missed eye contact," Wasserman wrote. "Even the bored and checked-out students at least look up at me. And when students have to look up, you can get a sense from their eyes as to whether they are 'getting' what you were talking about and adjust accordingly. I also never realized how loud keyboards are when 75 students are typing simultaneously." He noted that he'll have to wait for class evaluations at the end of the semester to see what his students think of the ban. _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rjtlawfirm%40yahoo .com From angie at mpmail.net Fri Mar 6 20:22:15 2009 From: angie at mpmail.net (Angie Matney) Date: Fri, 06 Mar 2009 15:22:15 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] FW: Law Students Report Positive Reaction to No-Laptop Policy, ABA Journal, March 5, 2009 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi Noel, You're right! We can be distracted through our earphones or braille displays, and no one's the wiser. Oh, wait...that's not what you meant? (grin) In all seriousness, I have started using a cell phone with a bluetooth keyboard and bluetooth 12-cell braille display for notetaking. It is a great portable system. Angie On Fri, 6 Mar 2009 11:20:53 -0600, Nightingale, Noel wrote: >Blindlaw listers: >This article struck me as showing one edge blind law students and lawyers may have over their sighted counterparts, who apparently need to look at their screens rather than at the person who is speaking! From jbar at barcore.com Fri Mar 6 21:33:20 2009 From: jbar at barcore.com (Jim Barbour) Date: Fri, 6 Mar 2009 13:33:20 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] FW: Law Students Report Positive Reaction to No-Laptop Policy, ABA Journal, March 5, 2009 In-Reply-To: <7556b95a0903060924p4ebe301m9550c91abf413c4d@mail.gmail.com> References: <7556b95a0903060924p4ebe301m9550c91abf413c4d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090306213320.GA3938@barcore.com> Harmful practice? Jim On Fri, Mar 06, 2009 at 12:24:58PM -0500, Shane D wrote: > That could be a harmful practice to a blind person in the class, > though. I'm sure they'd have to make the exception in that case. > > On 3/6/09, Nightingale, Noel wrote: > > Blindlaw listers: > > > > This article struck me as showing one edge blind law students and lawyers > > may have over their sighted counterparts, who apparently need to look at > > their screens rather than at the person who is speaking! > > > > Noel > > > > > > > > Link: > > http://www.abajournal.com/weekly/law_students_report_positive_reaction_to_no-laptop_policy > > > > Text: > > Law Students Report Positive Reaction to No-Laptop Policy > > Posted Mar 5, 2009 > > By Debra Cassens Weiss > > > > A law professor who banned laptops in his first-year criminal law class > > surveyed his students about their reaction-and found it was generally > > positive. > > > > UCLA law professor Eugene Volokh had the results in a memo to his collegues > > (PDF) and on his blog, The Volokh Conspiracy. > > > > Seventy-one percent of the students who responded reported the policy had a > > strongly positive or slightly positive effect on their concentration in > > class. Fifty-four percent said it had a positive effect on their overall > > enjoyment of the course. > > > > Only 36 percent reported a positive influence on learning, though; 41 > > percent said the experience was neutral in regard to learning. > > > > One student pointed out that the experiment had a negative effect on trees. > > The student's e-mail to Volokh said those who brief cases on their computers > > have to print out their notes for class. And those who want their class > > notes neatly typed and available on their laptop have to transcribe > > classroom notes. > > > > While students were positive, Volokh said he noted no material differences > > in classroom discussions. He suspects 1Ls tend to be engaged, and they often > > find criminal law particularly interesting. He wonders if the results would > > be different in classes with little voluntary class participation. > > > > Earlier this week on Prawfsblawg, Howard Wasserman, an associate law > > professor at Florida International University, noted that his own classroom > > laptop ban was going better than he had hoped. > > > > "I never realized how much I missed eye contact," Wasserman wrote. "Even the > > bored and checked-out students at least look up at me. And when students > > have to look up, you can get a sense from their eyes as to whether they are > > 'getting' what you were talking about and adjust accordingly. I also never > > realized how loud keyboards are when 75 students are typing simultaneously." > > > > He noted that he'll have to wait for class evaluations at the end of the > > semester to see what his students think of the ban. > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > blindlaw mailing list > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/chatter8712%40gmail.com > > > > > -- > -Shane > Website: http://www.blind-geek.com > AIM: inhaddict > MSN: shane at blind-geek.com > Skype: chatter8712 > Twitter: blind_geek > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jbar%40barcore.com From theweisberggroup at sbcglobal.net Fri Mar 6 22:07:25 2009 From: theweisberggroup at sbcglobal.net (James Weisberg) Date: Fri, 6 Mar 2009 14:07:25 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] FW: Law Students Report Positive Reaction toNo-Laptop Policy, ABA Journal, March 5, 2009 In-Reply-To: <200903062127.n26LRIb1019451@flpi128.prodigy.net> References: <200903062127.n26LRIb1019451@flpi128.prodigy.net> Message-ID: Angie - What model phone and keyboard are you using? Sounds slick. James -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Angie Matney Sent: Friday, March 06, 2009 12:22 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] FW: Law Students Report Positive Reaction toNo-Laptop Policy, ABA Journal, March 5, 2009 Hi Noel, You're right! We can be distracted through our earphones or braille displays, and no one's the wiser. Oh, wait...that's not what you meant? (grin) In all seriousness, I have started using a cell phone with a bluetooth keyboard and bluetooth 12-cell braille display for notetaking. It is a great portable system. Angie On Fri, 6 Mar 2009 11:20:53 -0600, Nightingale, Noel wrote: >Blindlaw listers: >This article struck me as showing one edge blind law students and lawyers may have over their sighted counterparts, who apparently need to look at their screens rather than at the person who is speaking! _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/theweisberggroup%4 0sbcglobal.net From angie at mpmail.net Fri Mar 6 23:10:40 2009 From: angie at mpmail.net (Angie Matney) Date: Fri, 06 Mar 2009 18:10:40 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] FW: Law Students Report Positive Reaction toNo-Laptop Policy, ABA Journal, March 5, 2009 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi James, I use a Nokia N82 phone. I have a ThinkOutside keyboard (now marketed under the name iGo), and a BrailleConnect 12 display. I also use a bluetooth earpiece if I need to have any speech output. Whole system probably weighs under a pound. Angie On Fri, 6 Mar 2009 14:07:25 -0800, James Weisberg wrote: >Angie - >What model phone and keyboard are you using? Sounds slick. From bspiry at comcast.net Fri Mar 6 23:26:12 2009 From: bspiry at comcast.net (Bill Spiry) Date: Fri, 6 Mar 2009 15:26:12 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] FW: Law Students Report Positive Reaction to No-Laptop Policy, ABA Journal, March 5, 2009 In-Reply-To: <000601c99e95$9dcf8b30$6901a8c0@RThomas> References: <000601c99e95$9dcf8b30$6901a8c0@RThomas> Message-ID: <000d01c99eb2$f0664010$d132c030$@net> you're jumping to the conclusion that he would not accommodate a request by a blind student to use the laptop. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Russell J. Thomas, Jr Sent: Friday, March 06, 2009 11:56 AM To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: Re: [blindlaw] FW: Law Students Report Positive Reaction to No-Laptop Policy, ABA Journal, March 5, 2009 This is a step backward for any blind person who prefers to take notes on a laptop. This is stone-age thinking. Is this prof's ego so big, that he somehow feels slighted if his students are not looking at him? Respectfully, Russell J. Thomas, Jr. THOMAS & ASSOCIATES www.employersattorneys.com Orange County Office 4121 Westerly Place, Suite 101 Newport Beach, California 92660 T: (949) 752-0101 F: (949) 257-4756 M: (949) 466-7238 Beverly Hills Office 9107 Wilshire Boulevard, Suite 450 Beverly Hills, California 90210 T: (310) 461-3561 -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Nightingale, Noel Sent: Friday, March 06, 2009 9:21 AM To: 'blindlaw at nfbnet.org' Subject: [blindlaw] FW: Law Students Report Positive Reaction to No-Laptop Policy, ABA Journal, March 5, 2009 Blindlaw listers: This article struck me as showing one edge blind law students and lawyers may have over their sighted counterparts, who apparently need to look at their screens rather than at the person who is speaking! Noel Link: http://www.abajournal.com/weekly/law_students_report_positive_reaction_to_no -laptop_policy Text: Law Students Report Positive Reaction to No-Laptop Policy Posted Mar 5, 2009 By Debra Cassens Weiss A law professor who banned laptops in his first-year criminal law class surveyed his students about their reaction-and found it was generally positive. UCLA law professor Eugene Volokh had the results in a memo to his collegues (PDF) and on his blog, The Volokh Conspiracy. Seventy-one percent of the students who responded reported the policy had a strongly positive or slightly positive effect on their concentration in class. Fifty-four percent said it had a positive effect on their overall enjoyment of the course. Only 36 percent reported a positive influence on learning, though; 41 percent said the experience was neutral in regard to learning. One student pointed out that the experiment had a negative effect on trees. The student's e-mail to Volokh said those who brief cases on their computers have to print out their notes for class. And those who want their class notes neatly typed and available on their laptop have to transcribe classroom notes. While students were positive, Volokh said he noted no material differences in classroom discussions. He suspects 1Ls tend to be engaged, and they often find criminal law particularly interesting. He wonders if the results would be different in classes with little voluntary class participation. Earlier this week on Prawfsblawg, Howard Wasserman, an associate law professor at Florida International University, noted that his own classroom laptop ban was going better than he had hoped. "I never realized how much I missed eye contact," Wasserman wrote. "Even the bored and checked-out students at least look up at me. And when students have to look up, you can get a sense from their eyes as to whether they are 'getting' what you were talking about and adjust accordingly. I also never realized how loud keyboards are when 75 students are typing simultaneously." He noted that he'll have to wait for class evaluations at the end of the semester to see what his students think of the ban. _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rjtlawfirm%40yahoo .com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/bspiry%40comcast.n et From angie.matney at gmail.com Sat Mar 7 00:39:24 2009 From: angie.matney at gmail.com (Angie Matney) Date: Fri, 6 Mar 2009 19:39:24 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] FW: Law Students Report Positive Reaction to No-Laptop Policy, ABA Journal, March 5, 2009 Message-ID: Exactly. I have had at least one prof with a no laptop policy. In one case, I did explicitly discuss the situation with the prof. He was fine with me having a laptop. Good thing, too. He wanted us to bring our books to class, and mine are on my computer. Now that I rarely bring the laptop to class, I put the readings on my phone or on my book port. Angie Sent from my Nokia N82. -original message- Subject: Re: [blindlaw] FW: Law Students Report Positive Reaction to No-Laptop Policy, ABA Journal, March 5, 2009 From: "Bill Spiry" Date: 03/06/2009 7:08 PM you're jumping to the conclusion that he would not accommodate a request by a blind student to use the laptop. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Russell J. Thomas, Jr Sent: Friday, March 06, 2009 11:56 AM To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: Re: [blindlaw] FW: Law Students Report Positive Reaction to No-Laptop Policy, ABA Journal, March 5, 2009 This is a step backward for any blind person who prefers to take notes on a laptop. This is stone-age thinking. Is this prof's ego so big, that he somehow feels slighted if his students are not looking at him? Respectfully, Russell J. Thomas, Jr. THOMAS & ASSOCIATES www.employersattorneys.com Orange County Office 4121 Westerly Place, Suite 101 Newport Beach, California 92660 T: (949) 752-0101 F: (949) 257-4756 M: (949) 466-7238 Beverly Hills Office 9107 Wilshire Boulevard, Suite 450 Beverly Hills, California 90210 T: (310) 461-3561 -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Nightingale, Noel Sent: Friday, March 06, 2009 9:21 AM To: 'blindlaw at nfbnet.org' Subject: [blindlaw] FW: Law Students Report Positive Reaction to No-Laptop Policy, ABA Journal, March 5, 2009 Blindlaw listers: This article struck me as showing one edge blind law students and lawyers may have over their sighted counterparts, who apparently need to look at their screens rather than at the person who is speaking! Noel Link: http://www.abajournal.com/weekly/law_students_report_positive_reaction_to_no -laptop_policy Text: Law Students Report Positive Reaction to No-Laptop Policy Posted Mar 5, 2009 By Debra Cassens Weiss A law professor who banned laptops in his first-year criminal law class surveyed his students about their reaction-and found it was generally positive. UCLA law professor Eugene Volokh had the results in a memo to his collegues (PDF) and on his blog, The Volokh Conspiracy. Seventy-one percent of the students who responded reported the policy had a strongly positive or slightly positive effect on their concentration in class. Fifty-four percent said it had a positive effect on their overall enjoyment of the course. Only 36 percent reported a positive influence on learning, though; 41 percent said the experience was neutral in regard to learning. One student pointed out that the experiment had a negative effect on trees. The student's e-mail to Volokh said those who brief cases on their computers have to print out their notes for class. And those who want their class notes neatly typed and available on their laptop have to transcribe classroom notes. While students were positive, Volokh said he noted no material differences in classroom discussions. He suspects 1Ls tend to be engaged, and they often find criminal law particularly interesting. He wonders if the results would be different in classes with little voluntary class participation. Earlier this week on Prawfsblawg, Howard Wasserman, an associate law professor at Florida International University, noted that his own classroom laptop ban was going better than he had hoped. "I never realized how much I missed eye contact," Wasserman wrote. "Even the bored and checked-out students at least look up at me. And when students have to look up, you can get a sense from their eyes as to whether they are 'getting' what you were talking about and adjust accordingly. I also never realized how loud keyboards are when 75 students are typing simultaneously." He noted that he'll have to wait for class evaluations at the end of the semester to see what his students think of the ban. _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rjtlawfirm%40yahoo .com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/bspiry%40comcast.n et _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie.matney%40gmail.com From angie.matney at gmail.com Sat Mar 7 00:49:59 2009 From: angie.matney at gmail.com (Angie Matney) Date: Fri, 6 Mar 2009 19:49:59 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] FW: Law Students Report Positive Reaction to No-Laptop Policy, ABA Journal, March 5, 2009 Message-ID: As someone who has taught college level math courses, I could identify with what he was saying. It is hard to talk to a group for well over an hour if no one seems to be engaged. I am not implying that as a blind instructor, I couldn't engage my students (though one or two of my poorest performers did claim they did badly because of my blindness). I just mean that I can kind of sympathize with the prof, and I don't thic it's all about ego. Of course, one could argue that professors will probably have to modify their expectations in some way, but I'll leave that to other posters. Angie Sent from my Nokia N82. -original message- Subject: Re: [blindlaw] FW: Law Students Report Positive Reaction to No-Laptop Policy, ABA Journal, March 5, 2009 From: "Bill Spiry" Date: 03/06/2009 7:08 PM you're jumping to the conclusion that he would not accommodate a request by a blind student to use the laptop. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Russell J. Thomas, Jr Sent: Friday, March 06, 2009 11:56 AM To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: Re: [blindlaw] FW: Law Students Report Positive Reaction to No-Laptop Policy, ABA Journal, March 5, 2009 This is a step backward for any blind person who prefers to take notes on a laptop. This is stone-age thinking. Is this prof's ego so big, that he somehow feels slighted if his students are not looking at him? Respectfully, Russell J. Thomas, Jr. THOMAS & ASSOCIATES www.employersattorneys.com Orange County Office 4121 Westerly Place, Suite 101 Newport Beach, California 92660 T: (949) 752-0101 F: (949) 257-4756 M: (949) 466-7238 Beverly Hills Office 9107 Wilshire Boulevard, Suite 450 Beverly Hills, California 90210 T: (310) 461-3561 -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Nightingale, Noel Sent: Friday, March 06, 2009 9:21 AM To: 'blindlaw at nfbnet.org' Subject: [blindlaw] FW: Law Students Report Positive Reaction to No-Laptop Policy, ABA Journal, March 5, 2009 Blindlaw listers: This article struck me as showing one edge blind law students and lawyers may have over their sighted counterparts, who apparently need to look at their screens rather than at the person who is speaking! Noel Link: http://www.abajournal.com/weekly/law_students_report_positive_reaction_to_no -laptop_policy Text: Law Students Report Positive Reaction to No-Laptop Policy Posted Mar 5, 2009 By Debra Cassens Weiss A law professor who banned laptops in his first-year criminal law class surveyed his students about their reaction-and found it was generally positive. UCLA law professor Eugene Volokh had the results in a memo to his collegues (PDF) and on his blog, The Volokh Conspiracy. Seventy-one percent of the students who responded reported the policy had a strongly positive or slightly positive effect on their concentration in class. Fifty-four percent said it had a positive effect on their overall enjoyment of the course. Only 36 percent reported a positive influence on learning, though; 41 percent said the experience was neutral in regard to learning. One student pointed out that the experiment had a negative effect on trees. The student's e-mail to Volokh said those who brief cases on their computers have to print out their notes for class. And those who want their class notes neatly typed and available on their laptop have to transcribe classroom notes. While students were positive, Volokh said he noted no material differences in classroom discussions. He suspects 1Ls tend to be engaged, and they often find criminal law particularly interesting. He wonders if the results would be different in classes with little voluntary class participation. Earlier this week on Prawfsblawg, Howard Wasserman, an associate law professor at Florida International University, noted that his own classroom laptop ban was going better than he had hoped. "I never realized how much I missed eye contact," Wasserman wrote. "Even the bored and checked-out students at least look up at me. And when students have to look up, you can get a sense from their eyes as to whether they are 'getting' what you were talking about and adjust accordingly. I also never realized how loud keyboards are when 75 students are typing simultaneously." He noted that he'll have to wait for class evaluations at the end of the semester to see what his students think of the ban. _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rjtlawfirm%40yahoo .com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/bspiry%40comcast.n et _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie.matney%40gmail.com From lmilholland at hotmail.com Sat Mar 7 01:00:06 2009 From: lmilholland at hotmail.com (Locke Milholland) Date: Fri, 6 Mar 2009 20:00:06 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] FW: Law Students Report Positive Reaction to No-Laptop Policy, ABA Journal, March 5, 2009 References: Message-ID: I went to a law school with roughly 120 students per class. I had a few professors with a no laptop policy. With the professors, my typical accommodation request went something like, "Professor, do you mind if I use my laptop?" The professor would reply, "Of course not." There are two policies, the public one is students interact better when they aren't taking dictation style notes. The second one is, students perform better when they aren't playing solitaire during class. We did have one student make the unfortunate mistake of emailing the professor, as if she weren't in class at the moment, while the professor was giving a powerpoint presentation, and had his email program running in the background. He read it for the class. Locke From roddj12 at hotmail.com Sat Mar 7 01:31:02 2009 From: roddj12 at hotmail.com (Rod Alcidonis) Date: Fri, 6 Mar 2009 20:31:02 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] FW: Law Students Report Positive Reactionto No-Laptop Policy, ABA Journal, March 5, 2009 References: <000601c99e95$9dcf8b30$6901a8c0@RThomas> <000d01c99eb2$f0664010$d132c030$@net> Message-ID: Thomas, in today's time, most law professors would accommodate a blind student to use his/her laptop. Some professors might even forego the policy if it will result in a stigma to that student in class -- being the only one using a laptop. I find law professors to be much more accommodating and understanding than undergraduate professors. Perhaps it's because they know the law and its consequences. Rod Alcidonis Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009. Roger Williams University School of Law 10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 Bristol, RI 02809 Cell: 718-704-4651 Home: 401-824-8685 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Spiry" To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Sent: Friday, March 06, 2009 6:26 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] FW: Law Students Report Positive Reactionto No-Laptop Policy, ABA Journal, March 5, 2009 > you're jumping to the conclusion that he would not accommodate a request > by > a blind student to use the laptop. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of Russell J. Thomas, Jr > Sent: Friday, March 06, 2009 11:56 AM > To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] FW: Law Students Report Positive Reaction to > No-Laptop Policy, ABA Journal, March 5, 2009 > > This is a step backward for any blind person who prefers to take notes on > a > laptop. This is stone-age thinking. Is this prof's ego so big, that he > somehow feels slighted if his students are not looking at him? > > > > Respectfully, > > > > Russell J. Thomas, Jr. > > THOMAS & ASSOCIATES > > www.employersattorneys.com > > > > Orange County Office > > 4121 Westerly Place, Suite 101 > > Newport Beach, California 92660 > > T: (949) 752-0101 > > F: (949) 257-4756 > > M: (949) 466-7238 > > > > Beverly Hills Office > > 9107 Wilshire Boulevard, Suite 450 > > Beverly Hills, California 90210 > > T: (310) 461-3561 > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of Nightingale, Noel > Sent: Friday, March 06, 2009 9:21 AM > To: 'blindlaw at nfbnet.org' > Subject: [blindlaw] FW: Law Students Report Positive Reaction to No-Laptop > Policy, ABA Journal, March 5, 2009 > > Blindlaw listers: > > This article struck me as showing one edge blind law students and lawyers > may have over their sighted counterparts, who apparently need to look at > their screens rather than at the person who is speaking! > > Noel > > > > Link: > http://www.abajournal.com/weekly/law_students_report_positive_reaction_to_no > -laptop_policy > > Text: > Law Students Report Positive Reaction to No-Laptop Policy > Posted Mar 5, 2009 > By Debra Cassens Weiss > > A law professor who banned laptops in his first-year criminal law class > surveyed his students about their reaction-and found it was generally > positive. > > UCLA law professor Eugene Volokh had the results in a memo to his > collegues > (PDF) and on his blog, The Volokh Conspiracy. > > Seventy-one percent of the students who responded reported the policy had > a > strongly positive or slightly positive effect on their concentration in > class. Fifty-four percent said it had a positive effect on their overall > enjoyment of the course. > > Only 36 percent reported a positive influence on learning, though; 41 > percent said the experience was neutral in regard to learning. > > One student pointed out that the experiment had a negative effect on > trees. > The student's e-mail to Volokh said those who brief cases on their > computers > have to print out their notes for class. And those who want their class > notes neatly typed and available on their laptop have to transcribe > classroom notes. > > While students were positive, Volokh said he noted no material differences > in classroom discussions. He suspects 1Ls tend to be engaged, and they > often > find criminal law particularly interesting. He wonders if the results > would > be different in classes with little voluntary class participation. > > Earlier this week on Prawfsblawg, Howard Wasserman, an associate law > professor at Florida International University, noted that his own > classroom > laptop ban was going better than he had hoped. > > "I never realized how much I missed eye contact," Wasserman wrote. "Even > the > bored and checked-out students at least look up at me. And when students > have to look up, you can get a sense from their eyes as to whether they > are > 'getting' what you were talking about and adjust accordingly. I also never > realized how loud keyboards are when 75 students are typing > simultaneously." > > He noted that he'll have to wait for class evaluations at the end of the > semester to see what his students think of the ban. > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rjtlawfirm%40yahoo > .com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/bspiry%40comcast.n > et > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail.com > From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Sat Mar 7 07:21:55 2009 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Fri, 6 Mar 2009 23:21:55 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] FW: Law Students Report Positive Reaction to No-Laptop Policy, ABA Journal, March 5, 2009 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3ED84906484A416ABCB76A8C0036B860@spike> and for those of us blind or not who remember taking notes in courses before there were lap tops this says a lot. I think this could also carry in to professional practice as well where people have to actually remember what they learn because referring to notes or lap tops isn't always feasible. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nightingale, Noel" To: Sent: Friday, March 06, 2009 9:20 AM Subject: [blindlaw] FW: Law Students Report Positive Reaction to No-Laptop Policy, ABA Journal, March 5, 2009 > Blindlaw listers: > > This article struck me as showing one edge blind law students and lawyers > may have over their sighted counterparts, who apparently need to look at > their screens rather than at the person who is speaking! > > Noel > > > > Link: > http://www.abajournal.com/weekly/law_students_report_positive_reaction_to_no-laptop_policy > > Text: > Law Students Report Positive Reaction to No-Laptop Policy > Posted Mar 5, 2009 > By Debra Cassens Weiss > > A law professor who banned laptops in his first-year criminal law class > surveyed his students about their reaction-and found it was generally > positive. > > UCLA law professor Eugene Volokh had the results in a memo to his > collegues (PDF) and on his blog, The Volokh Conspiracy. > > Seventy-one percent of the students who responded reported the policy had > a strongly positive or slightly positive effect on their concentration in > class. Fifty-four percent said it had a positive effect on their overall > enjoyment of the course. > > Only 36 percent reported a positive influence on learning, though; 41 > percent said the experience was neutral in regard to learning. > > One student pointed out that the experiment had a negative effect on > trees. The student's e-mail to Volokh said those who brief cases on their > computers have to print out their notes for class. And those who want > their class notes neatly typed and available on their laptop have to > transcribe classroom notes. > > While students were positive, Volokh said he noted no material differences > in classroom discussions. He suspects 1Ls tend to be engaged, and they > often find criminal law particularly interesting. He wonders if the > results would be different in classes with little voluntary class > participation. > > Earlier this week on Prawfsblawg, Howard Wasserman, an associate law > professor at Florida International University, noted that his own > classroom laptop ban was going better than he had hoped. > > "I never realized how much I missed eye contact," Wasserman wrote. "Even > the bored and checked-out students at least look up at me. And when > students have to look up, you can get a sense from their eyes as to > whether they are 'getting' what you were talking about and adjust > accordingly. I also never realized how loud keyboards are when 75 students > are typing simultaneously." > > He noted that he'll have to wait for class evaluations at the end of the > semester to see what his students think of the ban. > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net From carter.tjoseph at gmail.com Sat Mar 7 09:06:12 2009 From: carter.tjoseph at gmail.com (T. Joseph Carter) Date: Sat, 7 Mar 2009 01:06:12 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] FW: Law Students Report Positive Reaction toNo-Laptop Policy, ABA Journal, March 5, 2009 In-Reply-To: <49b1ba92.6105be0a.70ab.ffffc25eSMTPIN_ADDED@mx.google.com> References: <49b1ba92.6105be0a.70ab.ffffc25eSMTPIN_ADDED@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <20090307090612.GE45221@yumi.bluecherry.net> The problem with the system is the number of doodads you have to carry to make it work. On the subject of electronic device bans in classrooms, I think the potential for stigma is too high, even when the entire class is released from the ban to attempt to avoid such a stigma. My experience with this is a situation where any stigma created by such a ban--and by my accommodation negating it--was intentional on the part of the professors in question. (That's a story in and of itself, but I have multiple independent means of showing that it was done in the hopes that it would be harmful.) Nothing can truly prevent willful discrimination, but setting the stage for some students being treated differently ultimately because of disability is likely to subject the person with the disability to negative consequences. If those are unintended, the best way to avoid them is to prevent the possibility. Joseph On Fri, Mar 06, 2009 at 06:10:40PM -0500, Angie Matney wrote: >Hi James, > >I use a Nokia N82 phone. I have a ThinkOutside keyboard (now marketed under the name iGo), and a BrailleConnect 12 display. I also use a bluetooth earpiece if I need to have any speech output. Whole system probably weighs under a pound. > >Angie From angie at mpmail.net Sat Mar 7 09:37:35 2009 From: angie at mpmail.net (Angie Matney) Date: Sat, 07 Mar 2009 04:37:35 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] FW: Law Students Report Positive Reaction toNo-Laptop Policy, ABA Journal, March 5, 2009 In-Reply-To: <20090307090612.GE45221@yumi.bluecherry.net> Message-ID: Hi Joseph, >The problem with the system is the number of doodads you have to >carry to make it work. To eachhis/her own, I suppose. This system doesn't involve much mre tan my laptop with earphone and braille display. All of the devices talk to each other without difficulty, The phone boots up quickly, and I can go for hours on end without needing to find an outlet. >On the subject of electronic device bans in classrooms, I think the >potential for stigma is too high, even when the entire class is >released from the ban to attempt to avoid such a stigma. Sounds like you had some unfortunat experiences in that regard. My school is surprisingly less competitive than I would have thought, so this has never been an issue. But very few instructors here would ban laptops anyway. Angie From dgoraya at ucla.edu Sat Mar 7 17:09:32 2009 From: dgoraya at ucla.edu (deepa goraya) Date: Sat, 7 Mar 2009 09:09:32 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] prelaw student seeking employment for a year Message-ID: Hello All, This is Deepa Goraya from California. I am writing to see if anyone knows of a law firm that is looking to employ any blind prelaw students temporarily to give them experience of what it is like working in the legal field. Although I have had two legal unpaid internships while in college, I would like to get an even broader range of experience as a paralegal or something similar to that, as well as some financial compensation. I applied to law schools in the fall but I had a rather low LSAT score so it is looking like I will have to retake the LSAT and reapply. For now, I am looking for a job as a paralegal or something similar at a law firm either in D.C. or back in California. I graduated from UCLA in June with a B.A. in English, and double minor in African American Studies and Classical Civilization. I am currently interning on Capitol Hill for Senator Christopher Dodd, but that will be over in May. I will need employment for the 2009/2010 year. If anyone knows of firms I can apply to, please let me know. I can also provide my resume off list. Please email me at dgoraya at ucla.edu or call me on my cell: (909) 964-3699 with any information. Thank you in advance! Sincerely, Deepa Goraya From bspiry at comcast.net Sat Mar 7 18:24:07 2009 From: bspiry at comcast.net (Bill Spiry) Date: Sat, 7 Mar 2009 10:24:07 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] FW: Law Students Report Positive Reaction toNo-Laptop Policy, ABA Journal, March 5, 2009 References: <20090307090612.GE45221@yumi.bluecherry.net> Message-ID: <000001c99f51$e784d7a0$b68e86e0$@net> Angie, What blue tooth ear phone do you like? -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Angie Matney Sent: Saturday, March 07, 2009 1:38 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] FW: Law Students Report Positive Reaction toNo-Laptop Policy, ABA Journal, March 5, 2009 Hi Joseph, >The problem with the system is the number of doodads you have to >carry to make it work. To eachhis/her own, I suppose. This system doesn't involve much mre tan my laptop with earphone and braille display. All of the devices talk to each other without difficulty, The phone boots up quickly, and I can go for hours on end without needing to find an outlet. >On the subject of electronic device bans in classrooms, I think the >potential for stigma is too high, even when the entire class is >released from the ban to attempt to avoid such a stigma. Sounds like you had some unfortunat experiences in that regard. My school is surprisingly less competitive than I would have thought, so this has never been an issue. But very few instructors here would ban laptops anyway. Angie _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/bspiry%40comcast.n et From bspiry at comcast.net Sat Mar 7 21:12:04 2009 From: bspiry at comcast.net (Bill Spiry) Date: Sat, 7 Mar 2009 13:12:04 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] career transition to Law... Message-ID: <000101c99f69$5dbade80$19309b80$@net> Hi folks. . I am considering making a pretty big career change, returning to school for my JD. I'd appreciate talking to someone, a successful blind attorney who might have come to the law with similar circumstances to those I'm wrestling through at this time. The short of it is as follows: . I'm 48 years old. I've been a senior Human Resources manager for the last 20 years, most recently Director of Human Resources for a municipality for the last 9 of those years. As you might expect my work involves complex employment and labor issues routinely, I've negotiated more collective bargaining agreements and dispute resolutions than I care to remember during my career, and have been very engaged with the laws and regulations of the profession in employment, labor, and the ADA, as well as risk and other disciplines. Its often my experience that I have more extensive knowledge of the laws involved with my work than the attorney's I consult with. . I am an HR generalist, but my sweet spot has always been dealing with the most difficult and complicated disputes and employee performance and discipline issues. My strongest competencies involve providing counsel in complex and sensitive employment issues, guiding managers and employees back to the core facts, fairness considerations, and desired outcomes needed to bring resolution. . I'm burned out with the internal politics of HR management in government employment. As an executive, I'm tired of battling to justify the strategic importance of good HR management in the face of internal popularity politics, regardless of how effective my team has been bringing best practice to the table and helping people. I'm tired of being the guy who has to take the body blows for internally unpopular decisions directed by City Managers and elected officials. After 20 years of this, I expect I can find another executive position where things will be fresher again, but fundamentally I believe this is one of the crosses I'll continue to bear as an HR professional regardless of the organization. It's the nature of the beast. I have liked the work, but dislike the BS. I have decided to leave this position either to go to law school or to seek a position elsewhere with a fresher start. I guess fundamentally, I'm looking for more independence. I suspect my core competencies would serve me well helping people as an attorney, but the difference would be having the credentials to be heard and taken seriously. . The law has always been of interest to me, I completed 3 law school courses in labor and arbitration many moons ago during my Grad studies at the U of MN and did very well, and have actively sought continuing education in the legal aspects of my profession. I considered entering law back then, but I was still transitioning into my blindness and frankly intimidated by the accessibility challenges I faced. So, I followed an alternative path. . I've lost my vision to RP, mostly as an adult. I was not introduced to skills for blindness until around 19, and really didn't start to take the need for those skills seriously until my vision continued to degenerate and I entered grad school a few years later. I no longer have any functional vision. I've had a couple of rounds of Braille training over the years, but my skills are limited and my use of it is limited to administrative functions such as labeling and brief notations. I am skilled in the use of screen readers user (JAWS and SA), and perform the vast majority of my information and document based work using electronic materials. . I have a family, wife and three teenage kids. My wife is supportive of me in this transition. We think we understand that there will be significant sacrifices we'll have to make over the next few years if I do enter law school. I suspect however that the reality of how much work it will be and how tight things will become is still a bit under the radar for us. That's why I want to be pretty certain that it's the right decision. If you feel you could offer me some wisdom from your own experience, and would be willing to talk with me, I'd appreciate hearing from you. Please drop me a response offline to my email address below. From there we can arrange to talk if appropriate. Thanks guys. Bill Bill Spiry bspiry at comcast.net From AZNOR99 at aol.com Sun Mar 8 18:47:54 2009 From: AZNOR99 at aol.com (AZNOR99 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2009 14:47:54 EDT Subject: [blindlaw] Fwd: A CELEBRATION OF LIFE!!!!!!!IN LOVING MEMEMORY Message-ID: Please see a message from a friend from Michigan below. Thos of us who knew Michael will miss him a great deal. This is a very sad time for our Federation Family. Ronza ____________________________________ From: youthslammi at yahoo.com To: nfbmi-talk at nfbnet.org, qmsingleton at comcast.net CC: alewis at nfbga.org, aznor99 at aol.com, bossclaw at aol.com, akostin at ci.lansing.mi.us, malston at ci.lansing.mi.us, mossc at michigan.gov, kdavisnfbf at cfl.rr.com, djgfire3life at gmail.com, ggwilcox at comcast.net, gscott at nfbga.org, camptgirl at att.net, jacalynpaulding at gmail.com, jennifer.dunnam at earthlink.net, jj at bestmidi.com, JWilson at nfb.org, ghkitchen at comcast.net, MThorpe at nfb.org, MRio at nfb.org, kitties_kimmy at yahoo.com, chelseap08 at gmail.com, tpaulding at drccil.org, robinsond5 at michigan.gov, nfrbnj at yahoo.com, lilblue615 at yahoo.com, selena.j.sundling at irs.gov, msoulsby at suddenlink.net, tjpaulding at gmail.com, george.wurtzel at comcast.net, peter_zaremba at yahoo.com Sent: 3/8/2009 2:29:17 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time Subj: A CELEBRATION OF LIFE!!!!!!!IN LOVING MEMEMORY>>> To all of my federation friends, i write to you with a terribly saddened heart and a whole flood of emotions inside. With deepest sadness i must report to you that the NFB of MI has lost a close friend. Our fellow federationis, president of the Tennessee affiliate and great friend, Michael Seay has gone home to be with the Lord,.. on Friday, March 5.2009 after a sudden heart attack. . Please join me in celebrating the life of a man that so many of us held so dear. He was our federation brother and to many in the Michigan affiliate he was such a good friend. In a gesture of love to the family, i am compiling a book of memories and pictures to present to his family when i travel to Memphis this weekend for his service. SO, i ask if you have any memories of Mike as a friend , of federation brother that you'd like to share with his family, please email me the stories and pictures. I am sure that the family will find comfort in our memories. i must admit that this is partially a selfish endeavor. Mike meant the world to me and by hearing memories of all his friends it makes me remember him and feel his awesome presence. If i were to write something it would be about the way he laughed that just consumed me and made me laugh even if i didn't think the comment or joke was funny. I would write about how he made me feel special and how at one time and maybe even still i was his princess. Or, the time i blew up a pan of brownies while he was in Michigan visiting and he tried to pretend that he wasn't disappointed but really he was looking foward to my excellent peanut butter brownies. I have so many great memories and i am sure you do as well. Knowing Mike as i did, i am sure that he's in heaven happy, drinking weet tea( or....) and eating ribs, chicken or tacos. I am sure that he is singing in the choir with angels and sharing his amazing laugh with them. Again, please send your stories to me so that i may share our memories of our federation brother with his family. Thank you, Melinda MELINDA LATHAM Youth Outreach Coordinator, NFB of MI 517.803.3800 **************Check all of your email inboxes from anywhere on the web. Try the new Email Toolbar now! (http://toolbar.aol.com/mail/download.html?ncid=txtlnkusdown00000027) From mikefry79 at gmail.com Sun Mar 8 23:25:26 2009 From: mikefry79 at gmail.com (Michael Fry) Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2009 16:25:26 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] career transition to Law... In-Reply-To: <000101c99f69$5dbade80$19309b80$@net> References: <000101c99f69$5dbade80$19309b80$@net> Message-ID: <8c58e54a0903081625y2d7597bag97653240adbe2e41@mail.gmail.com> Hi Bill, I highly recommend you do not quit your job to go to law school. I sincerely think that it'd be a bad idea. It sounds like you've got a very good thing going on especially in these though economic times. If I were you, I wouldn't start a new career at this point in my life. Trust me, there a lot people on this list that would prefer to have your job instead of being a lawyer. It's just my opinion but if I didn't tell you, I'd feel negligent, I think your perception of being a lawyer is rosier than the reality and you currently have a really good job. Mike On Sat, Mar 7, 2009 at 2:12 PM, Bill Spiry wrote: > Hi folks. > > . I am considering making a pretty big career change, returning to school > for my JD. I'd appreciate talking to someone, a successful blind attorney > who might have come to the law with similar circumstances to those I'm > wrestling through at this time. > > The short of it is as follows: > > . I'm 48 years old. I've been a senior Human Resources manager for > the last 20 years, most recently Director of Human Resources for a > municipality for the last 9 of those years. As you might expect my work > involves complex employment and labor issues routinely, I've negotiated > more > collective bargaining agreements and dispute resolutions than I care to > remember during my career, and have been very engaged with the laws and > regulations of the profession in employment, labor, and the ADA, as well as > risk and other disciplines. Its often my experience that I have more > extensive knowledge of the laws involved with my work than the attorney's I > consult with. > > . I am an HR generalist, but my sweet spot has always been dealing > with the most difficult and complicated disputes and employee performance > and discipline issues. My strongest competencies involve providing counsel > in complex and sensitive employment issues, guiding managers and employees > back to the core facts, fairness considerations, and desired outcomes > needed > to bring resolution. > > . I'm burned out with the internal politics of HR management in > government employment. As an executive, I'm tired of battling to justify > the > strategic importance of good HR management in the face of internal > popularity politics, regardless of how effective my team has been bringing > best practice to the table and helping people. I'm tired of being the guy > who has to take the body blows for internally unpopular decisions directed > by City Managers and elected officials. After 20 years of this, I expect I > can find another executive position where things will be fresher again, but > fundamentally I believe this is one of the crosses I'll continue to bear as > an HR professional regardless of the organization. It's the nature of the > beast. I have liked the work, but dislike the BS. I have decided to leave > this position either to go to law school or to seek a position elsewhere > with a fresher start. I guess fundamentally, I'm looking for more > independence. I suspect my core competencies would serve me well helping > people as an attorney, but the difference would be having the credentials > to > be heard and taken seriously. > > . The law has always been of interest to me, I completed 3 law > school courses in labor and arbitration many moons ago during my Grad > studies at the U of MN and did very well, and have actively sought > continuing education in the legal aspects of my profession. I considered > entering law back then, but I was still transitioning into my blindness and > frankly intimidated by the accessibility challenges I faced. So, I followed > an alternative path. > > . I've lost my vision to RP, mostly as an adult. I was not > introduced to skills for blindness until around 19, and really didn't start > to take the need for those skills seriously until my vision continued to > degenerate and I entered grad school a few years later. I no longer have > any functional vision. I've had a couple of rounds of Braille training > over > the years, but my skills are limited and my use of it is limited to > administrative functions such as labeling and brief notations. I am skilled > in the use of screen readers user (JAWS and SA), and perform the vast > majority of my information and document based work using electronic > materials. > > . I have a family, wife and three teenage kids. My wife is > supportive of me in this transition. We think we understand that there will > be significant sacrifices we'll have to make over the next few years if I > do > enter law school. I suspect however that the reality of how much work it > will be and how tight things will become is still a bit under the radar for > us. That's why I want to be pretty certain that it's the right decision. > > > > If you feel you could offer me some wisdom from your own experience, and > would be willing to talk with me, I'd appreciate hearing from you. Please > drop me a response offline to my email address below. From there we can > arrange to talk if appropriate. > > > > Thanks guys. > > Bill > > > > Bill Spiry > > bspiry at comcast.net > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mikefry79%40gmail.com > From stevep.deeley at insightbb.com Sun Mar 8 23:37:49 2009 From: stevep.deeley at insightbb.com (Steve P. Deeley) Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2009 19:37:49 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] career transition to Law... In-Reply-To: <8c58e54a0903081625y2d7597bag97653240adbe2e41@mail.gmail.com> References: <000101c99f69$5dbade80$19309b80$@net> <8c58e54a0903081625y2d7597bag97653240adbe2e41@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Why not attempt to attend law school at night and retain your job for the first year? Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Fry" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Sunday, March 08, 2009 7:25 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] career transition to Law... > Hi Bill, > > I highly recommend you do not quit your job to go to law school. I > sincerely think that it'd be a bad idea. It sounds like you've got a very > good thing going on especially in these though economic times. If I were > you, I wouldn't start a new career at this point in my life. Trust me, > there a lot people on this list that would prefer to have your job instead > of being a lawyer. > > It's just my opinion but if I didn't tell you, I'd feel negligent, I think > your perception of being a lawyer is rosier than the reality and you > currently have a really good job. > > Mike > > On Sat, Mar 7, 2009 at 2:12 PM, Bill Spiry wrote: > >> Hi folks. >> >> . I am considering making a pretty big career change, returning to school >> for my JD. I'd appreciate talking to someone, a successful blind attorney >> who might have come to the law with similar circumstances to those I'm >> wrestling through at this time. >> >> The short of it is as follows: >> >> . I'm 48 years old. I've been a senior Human Resources manager >> for >> the last 20 years, most recently Director of Human Resources for a >> municipality for the last 9 of those years. As you might expect my work >> involves complex employment and labor issues routinely, I've negotiated >> more >> collective bargaining agreements and dispute resolutions than I care to >> remember during my career, and have been very engaged with the laws and >> regulations of the profession in employment, labor, and the ADA, as well >> as >> risk and other disciplines. Its often my experience that I have more >> extensive knowledge of the laws involved with my work than the attorney's >> I >> consult with. >> >> . I am an HR generalist, but my sweet spot has always been >> dealing >> with the most difficult and complicated disputes and employee performance >> and discipline issues. My strongest competencies involve providing >> counsel >> in complex and sensitive employment issues, guiding managers and >> employees >> back to the core facts, fairness considerations, and desired outcomes >> needed >> to bring resolution. >> >> . I'm burned out with the internal politics of HR management in >> government employment. As an executive, I'm tired of battling to justify >> the >> strategic importance of good HR management in the face of internal >> popularity politics, regardless of how effective my team has been >> bringing >> best practice to the table and helping people. I'm tired of being the >> guy >> who has to take the body blows for internally unpopular decisions >> directed >> by City Managers and elected officials. After 20 years of this, I expect >> I >> can find another executive position where things will be fresher again, >> but >> fundamentally I believe this is one of the crosses I'll continue to bear >> as >> an HR professional regardless of the organization. It's the nature of the >> beast. I have liked the work, but dislike the BS. I have decided to leave >> this position either to go to law school or to seek a position elsewhere >> with a fresher start. I guess fundamentally, I'm looking for more >> independence. I suspect my core competencies would serve me well helping >> people as an attorney, but the difference would be having the credentials >> to >> be heard and taken seriously. >> >> . The law has always been of interest to me, I completed 3 law >> school courses in labor and arbitration many moons ago during my Grad >> studies at the U of MN and did very well, and have actively sought >> continuing education in the legal aspects of my profession. I considered >> entering law back then, but I was still transitioning into my blindness >> and >> frankly intimidated by the accessibility challenges I faced. So, I >> followed >> an alternative path. >> >> . I've lost my vision to RP, mostly as an adult. I was not >> introduced to skills for blindness until around 19, and really didn't >> start >> to take the need for those skills seriously until my vision continued to >> degenerate and I entered grad school a few years later. I no longer have >> any functional vision. I've had a couple of rounds of Braille training >> over >> the years, but my skills are limited and my use of it is limited to >> administrative functions such as labeling and brief notations. I am >> skilled >> in the use of screen readers user (JAWS and SA), and perform the vast >> majority of my information and document based work using electronic >> materials. >> >> . I have a family, wife and three teenage kids. My wife is >> supportive of me in this transition. We think we understand that there >> will >> be significant sacrifices we'll have to make over the next few years if I >> do >> enter law school. I suspect however that the reality of how much work it >> will be and how tight things will become is still a bit under the radar >> for >> us. That's why I want to be pretty certain that it's the right decision. >> >> >> >> If you feel you could offer me some wisdom from your own experience, and >> would be willing to talk with me, I'd appreciate hearing from you. >> Please >> drop me a response offline to my email address below. From there we can >> arrange to talk if appropriate. >> >> >> >> Thanks guys. >> >> Bill >> >> >> >> Bill Spiry >> >> bspiry at comcast.net >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mikefry79%40gmail.com >> > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.9/1989 - Release Date: 03/07/09 18:43:00 From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Mon Mar 9 00:53:53 2009 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2009 17:53:53 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] prelaw student seeking employment for a year In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <48B8793385A14D55AC8ED0C4D762AB89@spike> In California a law firm cannot employ you as a "Paralegal" unless you have attained a paralegal certificate in Paralegal Studies. refer to Business and Professions Code #S 6450 et seq. Some law firms will hire clerical positions or legal secretaries but this will not give much real exposure. Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal 1237 P Street Fresno ca 93721 559-266-9237 ----- Original Message ----- From: "deepa goraya" To: "blindlaw" Sent: Saturday, March 07, 2009 10:09 AM Subject: [blindlaw] prelaw student seeking employment for a year > Hello All, > > This is Deepa Goraya from California. I am writing to see if anyone > knows of a law firm that is looking to employ any blind prelaw students > temporarily to give them experience of what it is like working in the > legal field. Although I have had two legal unpaid internships while in > college, I would like to get an even broader range of experience as a > paralegal or something similar to that, as well as some financial > compensation. I applied to law schools in the fall but I had a rather low > LSAT score so it is looking like I will have to retake the LSAT and > reapply. For now, I am looking for a job as a paralegal or something > similar at a law firm either in D.C. or back in California. I graduated > from UCLA in June with a B.A. in English, and double minor in African > American Studies and Classical Civilization. I am currently interning on > Capitol Hill for Senator Christopher Dodd, but that will be over in May. I > will need employment for the 2009/2010 year. If anyone knows of firms I > can apply to, please let me know. I can also provide my resume off list. > Please email me at dgoraya at ucla.edu or call me on my cell: (909) 964-3699 > with any information. Thank you in advance! > > Sincerely, > > Deepa Goraya > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net From b75205 at gmail.com Mon Mar 9 03:50:53 2009 From: b75205 at gmail.com (James Pepper) Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2009 22:50:53 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] career transition to Law... In-Reply-To: References: <000101c99f69$5dbade80$19309b80$@net> <8c58e54a0903081625y2d7597bag97653240adbe2e41@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Mike is right, do not quit your job particularly a government job at this time, things are really bad out there right now. James From angie at mpmail.net Mon Mar 9 12:06:57 2009 From: angie at mpmail.net (Angie Matney) Date: Mon, 09 Mar 2009 08:06:57 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] career transition to Law... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: According to an ABA article, there have been something like 5000 layoffs (including attorneys and staff) since the beginning of the year. Some firms are delaying 3l start dates, and some are asking them to work in lower-paid positions for the first year of their employment. Angie On Sun, 8 Mar 2009 22:50:53 -0500, James Pepper wrote: >Mike is right, do not quit your job particularly a government job at this >time, things are really bad out there right now. >James From roddj12 at hotmail.com Mon Mar 9 13:16:47 2009 From: roddj12 at hotmail.com (Rod Alcidonis) Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 09:16:47 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] career transition to Law... References: Message-ID: Anyone with a job right now is a lucky person and, anyone with a law job right now is a fortunate person in my view. This is a terrible market out there to gamble with one's prosperity. Don't do it! I had a guy in my class, he started law school at 53; he will be graduating at 56 this May. He left a good financial job to do law school and he is now looking at the same market that I am looking at, a young man under 30. Sad. Rod Alcidonis Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009. Roger Williams University School of Law 10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 Bristol, RI 02809 Cell: 718-704-4651 Home: 401-824-8685 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Angie Matney" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 8:06 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] career transition to Law... > According to an ABA article, there have been something like 5000 layoffs > (including attorneys and staff) since the beginning of the year. Some > firms are delaying 3l start dates, and some are asking them to work in > lower-paid positions for the first year > of their employment. > > Angie > > On Sun, 8 Mar 2009 22:50:53 -0500, James Pepper wrote: > >>Mike is right, do not quit your job particularly a government job at this >>time, things are really bad out there right now. > >>James > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail.com > From m_b_gilmore at yahoo.com Mon Mar 9 16:17:16 2009 From: m_b_gilmore at yahoo.com (Mike Gilmore) Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 09:17:16 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [blindlaw] advice Message-ID: <243605.65358.qm@web90306.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi everybody.   I'm writing this post because I am seeking some advice.  I am Virginia barred (and as of two weeks ago, D.C. pending because I sat for the exam.)   Until bar results come out in May, I'm looking for some legal work. The advice that I'm seeking is where I should look. Would a law firm or other legal entity desire me or someone who's a 3L? Obviously, Northern Virginia and D.C. is a big place with a lot of opportunity; I just don't know where to look.   If anyone out there has any ideas, please let me know.   Thanks.   Mike From m_b_gilmore at yahoo.com Mon Mar 9 16:32:07 2009 From: m_b_gilmore at yahoo.com (Mike Gilmore) Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 09:32:07 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [blindlaw] independent contractor? Message-ID: <895554.71292.qm@web90307.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I am a member of a listserv for contract attorneys.  Most of the e-mails from that listserv concern document review; however, I read one the other day about licensed attorneys working as independent contractors. (Examples of this would be taking a deposition for another attorney or doing legal research for another attorney or handling a court case for an attorney who needs the help.)   Anyway, I was wondering if any of you out there in D.C. or Northern Virginia have done independent contractor work.  That option appeals to me. (Taking depositions appeals to me but I don't know how familiar one would need to be with the case or if one just asks the questions the attorney supplies to him.)   Thanks in advance for your help.   Mike   From timandvickie at hotmail.com Mon Mar 9 18:00:13 2009 From: timandvickie at hotmail.com (Tim Shaw) Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 18:00:13 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] career transition to Law... In-Reply-To: References: <000101c99f69$5dbade80$19309b80$@net> <8c58e54a0903081625y2d7597bag97653240adbe2e41@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: yes if i had a job id cliong to it like there was no tommorrow, workign my ass off. I have been out of work for almsot two years because I cannot find work. > Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2009 22:50:53 -0500 > From: b75205 at gmail.com > To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] career transition to Law... > > Mike is right, do not quit your job particularly a government job at this > time, things are really bad out there right now. > > James > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/timandvickie%40hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ Express your personality in color! Preview and select themes for Hotmail®. http://www.windowslive-hotmail.com/LearnMore/personalize.aspx?ocid=TXT_MSGTX_WL_HM_express_032009#colortheme From timandvickie at hotmail.com Mon Mar 9 19:45:28 2009 From: timandvickie at hotmail.com (Tim Shaw) Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 19:45:28 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] independent contractor? In-Reply-To: <895554.71292.qm@web90307.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <895554.71292.qm@web90307.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: hmmm potential business idea a "temp agency" for lawyers, assigning independent ontractorsfor such tasks.... > Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 09:32:07 -0700 > From: m_b_gilmore at yahoo.com > To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org > Subject: [blindlaw] independent contractor? > > I am a member of a listserv for contract attorneys. Most of the e-mails from that listserv concern document review; however, I read one the other day about licensed attorneys working as independent contractors. (Examples of this would be taking a deposition for another attorney or doing legal research for another attorney or handling a court case for an attorney who needs the help.) > > Anyway, I was wondering if any of you out there in D.C. or Northern Virginia have done independent contractor work. That option appeals to me. (Taking depositions appeals to me but I don't know how familiar one would need to be with the case or if one just asks the questions the attorney supplies to him.) > > Thanks in advance for your help. > > Mike > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/timandvickie%40hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ Express your personality in color! Preview and select themes for Hotmail®. http://www.windowslive-hotmail.com/LearnMore/personalize.aspx?ocid=TXT_MSGTX_WL_HM_express_032009#colortheme From timandvickie at hotmail.com Mon Mar 9 20:40:36 2009 From: timandvickie at hotmail.com (Tim Shaw) Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 20:40:36 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] advice In-Reply-To: <243605.65358.qm@web90306.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <243605.65358.qm@web90306.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: id go ahead and apply at some firms an waht not, they may hire you on already working in a small capacity in contiengency of you passing > Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 09:17:16 -0700 > From: m_b_gilmore at yahoo.com > To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org > Subject: [blindlaw] advice > > Hi everybody. > > I'm writing this post because I am seeking some advice. I am Virginia barred (and as of two weeks ago, D.C. pending because I sat for the exam.) > > Until bar results come out in May, I'm looking for some legal work. The advice that I'm seeking is where I should look. Would a law firm or other legal entity desire me or someone who's a 3L? Obviously, Northern Virginia and D.C. is a big place with a lot of opportunity; I just don't know where to look. > > If anyone out there has any ideas, please let me know. > > Thanks. > > Mike > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/timandvickie%40hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live™ Groups: Create an online spot for your favorite groups to meet. http://windowslive.com/online/groups?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_groups_032009 From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Tue Mar 10 06:28:35 2009 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 23:28:35 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] advice In-Reply-To: <243605.65358.qm@web90306.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <243605.65358.qm@web90306.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Depending on what your interests many law firms will consider hiring prospective attorneys as clerks to do research and transactional work etc. until they receive their bar results. There are also volunteer opportunitites with legal aid programs or various organizations that do public interest law or advocacy. I would go through tne normal job search techniques, identifying potential firms and do necessary networking and pounding the pavement. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Gilmore" To: Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 9:17 AM Subject: [blindlaw] advice Hi everybody. I'm writing this post because I am seeking some advice. I am Virginia barred (and as of two weeks ago, D.C. pending because I sat for the exam.) Until bar results come out in May, I'm looking for some legal work. The advice that I'm seeking is where I should look. Would a law firm or other legal entity desire me or someone who's a 3L? Obviously, Northern Virginia and D.C. is a big place with a lot of opportunity; I just don't know where to look. If anyone out there has any ideas, please let me know. Thanks. Mike _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Tue Mar 10 06:31:55 2009 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 23:31:55 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] independent contractor? In-Reply-To: References: <895554.71292.qm@web90307.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Here in California there are agencies that hire temporary attorneys. Additionally, locally I have seen several ads on Craigslist looking for stand-in attorneys for court appearances and the like. I would check such places as Craigslist under "legal jobs" as well as general bar associations as well as publications for specialized bar associations, e.g. trial lawyers or as we know it in California Consumer Lawyers. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Shaw" To: Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 12:45 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] independent contractor? hmmm potential business idea a "temp agency" for lawyers, assigning independent ontractorsfor such tasks.... > Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 09:32:07 -0700 > From: m_b_gilmore at yahoo.com > To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org > Subject: [blindlaw] independent contractor? > > I am a member of a listserv for contract attorneys. Most of the e-mails > from that listserv concern document review; however, I read one the other > day about licensed attorneys working as independent contractors. (Examples > of this would be taking a deposition for another attorney or doing legal > research for another attorney or handling a court case for an attorney who > needs the help.) > > Anyway, I was wondering if any of you out there in D.C. or Northern > Virginia have done independent contractor work. That option appeals to > me. (Taking depositions appeals to me but I don't know how familiar one > would need to be with the case or if one just asks the questions the > attorney supplies to him.) > > Thanks in advance for your help. > > Mike > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/timandvickie%40hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ Express your personality in color! Preview and select themes for Hotmail®. http://www.windowslive-hotmail.com/LearnMore/personalize.aspx?ocid=TXT_MSGTX_WL_HM_express_032009#colortheme _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net From b75205 at gmail.com Tue Mar 10 08:46:22 2009 From: b75205 at gmail.com (James Pepper) Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 03:46:22 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. lsac complaint In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Scott: I laid out the first section of the LSAT to be accessible and I can send you the files if you would like to see it. Also I made the form that they use accessible so the blind can fill out the test without assistance. This works with JAWS and Window Eyes and a combination of Adobe's Read out Loud and Microsoft Narrator. My process works and if you need references at NFB, AFB and the AAPD I can send them to you. It took a while to figure out how they made thier pdfs and I know where they are making their mistakes. I can correct this problem. These PDFs are made to work natively with JAWS and Adobe Reader and the other screen readers without making any adjustments. They work with the default settings in Adobe Reader. Also the forms can be digitally signed and saved and all that fancy stuff that you expect with Adobe Acrobat Professional can be done with Adobe Reader, versions 8 or 9 which is the free download from Adobe.com. So we can make the LSAT accessible to anyone with a PC running Windows XP Or VIsta without any change of settings. This means the PC can be there for the sighted and the blind, with equal access for all. Also since I labeled everything, it will be a lot quicker for you to fill out this test! Sincerely, James G. Pepper On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 4:32 PM, Scott C. LaBarre wrote: > Below I am sharing the complaint that we filed today in California Court. > ************** > LaurEnce W. paradis (California Bar No. 122336) > > Anna levine (California Bar No. 227881) > > Disability Rights Advocates > > 2001 Center Street, Third Floor > > Berkeley, California 94704 > > Telephone: (510) 665-8644 > > Facsimile: (510) 665-8511 > > TTY: (510) 665-8716 > > > > SCOTT LABARRE (to seek pro hac vice admission) > > LABARRE LAW OFFICES, P.C. > > 1660 S. Albion Street, Ste 918 > > Denver, Colo 80222 > > Telephone: (303) 504-5979 > > Fax: (303) 757-3640 > > > > DANIEL F. GOLDSTEIN (to seek pro hac vice admission) > > MEHGAN Sidhu (to seek pro hac vice admission) > > Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP > > 120 E. Baltimore St., Suite 1700 > > Baltimore, MD 21202 > > Telephone: (410) 962-1030 > > Fax: (410) 385-0869 > > > > SUPERIOR COURT OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA > COUNTY OF ALAMEDA > > > > National Federation of the Blind, the National Federation of the Blind > of CALIFORNIA, and DEEPA GORAYA, > > > > Plaintiffs, > > v. > > LAW SCHOOL ADMISSION COUNCIL, INC., > > Defendant. > > > > Case No.: > > > > > > COMPLAINT FOR INJUNCTIVE AND DECLARATORY RELIEF FOR VIOLATIONS OF THE > CALIFORNIA DISABLED PERSONS ACT AND UNRUH CIVIL RIGHTS ACT > > > > > INTRODUCTION > > Plaintiffs complain of Defendant and allege herein as follows: > > 1. This action, brought by the National Federation of the Blind, > the National Federation of the Blind of California, and Deepa Goraya, seeks > to put an end to civil rights violations committed by defendant Law School > Admissions Council (hereafter "LSAC") against blind persons seeking to take > the LSAT exam and apply to law schools. Plaintiff Deepa Goraya, a blind law > school applicant in California, has been and is being denied equal access to > the accommodations, advantages, and facilities LSAC provides its > non-disabled customers through http://www.lsac.org (hereafter "lsac.org" > and "the website"). Plaintiffs National Federation of the Blind and the > National Federation of the Blind of California have members who are > similarly denied full and equal access to such accommodations, advantages > and facilities. Lsac.org is currently the only place online where > prospective law students can register for the Law School Admissions Test > ("LSAT"), apply to law schools, and obtain official LSAT test preparation > materials and information. Lsac.org contains multiple access barriers that > make it difficult if not impossible for blind law school applicants and LSAT > test takers to use the website and to obtain practice materials without > sighted assistance. LSAC thus excludes the blind, including Ms. Goraya, > from full and equal access to the accommodations, advantages, facilities, > and privileges of lsac.org. > > JURISDICTION > > 2. This is a civil action under California's Disabled Persons Act > (Cal. Civ. Code §§ 54, et seq.) and the Unruh Civil Rights Act (Cal. Civ. > Code §§ 51, et seq.) and for declaratory relief. This Court has > jurisdiction over the claims alleged herein pursuant to California Civil > Code §§ 54, et seq. and California Civil Code §§ 51, et seq. and California > Code of Civil Procedure section 1060. > > 3. This Court has jurisdiction over LSAC because LSAC is a > corporation authorized to do business in California and LSAC conducts > substantial business in California. LSAC owns, maintains and operates its > website, lsac.org, throughout California and in Alameda County. > > > > VENUE > > 4. Venue is proper in Alameda County because liability arises in > part in Alameda County, where the National Federation of the Blind of > California has its headquarters. LSAC has been and is committing the acts > alleged herein in Alameda County, has been and is violating the rights of > patrons in Alameda County, and has been and is causing injury to patrons in > Alameda County. > > 5. Plaintiff Goraya is a California citizen and has experienced > injury in California as a result of LSAC's inaccessible website and practice > materials. > > PARTIES > > 6. Plaintiff the National Federation of the Blind (hereafter "NFB") > is a national advocacy organization. The NFB, the oldest and largest > national organization of blind persons, is a non-profit corporation duly > organized under the laws of the District of Columbia with its principal > place of business in Baltimore, Maryland. It has affiliates in all 50 > states (including California) as well as Washington, D.C. and Puerto Rico. > The vast majority of the approximately 50,000 members are blind persons. > The NFB is widely recognized by the public, Congress, executive agencies of > government and the courts as a collective and representative voice on behalf > of blind Americans and their families. The purpose of the NFB is to promote > the general welfare of the blind by (1) assisting the blind in their efforts > to integrate themselves into society on terms of equality and (2) removing > barriers and changing social attitudes, stereotypes and mistaken beliefs > that sighted and blind persons hold concerning the limitations created by > blindness resulting in the denial of opportunity to blind persons in > virtually every sphere of life. The NFB and many of its members have long > been actively involved in promoting adaptive technology for the blind, so > that blind persons can live and work independently in today's > technology-dependent world. NFB members reside throughout the United > States, including the state of California, and many of its members would use > the services of lsac.org if this website is made independently usable by > the blind. > > 7. Plaintiff the National Federation of the Blind of California > (hereafter "NFB of California") is a state affiliate of the National > Federation of the Blind. NFB of California is a California corporation and > carries out NFB's objectives at the state level. It has local chapters > throughout California, including Alameda County, and has its headquarters in > Fremont, California, in Alameda County. > > 8. Plaintiff Goraya is a member of the NFB and the NFB of > California. She is blind and has been denied full and equal access to the > accommodations, advantages, facilities and privileges of lsac.org. > > 9. Defendant LSAC, is a non-profit corporation > established to coordinate, facilitate, and enhance the law school admissions > process. LSAC owns, operates and/or maintains the website lsac.com, a > public accommodation. Plaintiffs seek access to the services provided by > LSAC in California through lsac.org. > > FACTS > > 10. Lsac.org is owned, controlled and/or operated by LSAC. Lsac.org > is a public accommodation that offers its visitors comprehensive services > for applying to law school. The website functions as the official > destination for guiding prospective law school applicants through the > fundamental steps of applying to law school. Among its services, lsac.orgoffers information about the LSAT and law school application process, and > extensive LSAT preparation materials and resources. Lsac.org also serves as > the exclusive online means for registering for the LSAT and applying to > ABA-accredited law schools. > > 11. According to the website, lsac.org's online services enable > prospective law students to do the following, among other things: > > a.. Register for the LSAT > b.. Register for the LSDAS (Law School Data Assembly Service) > c.. Purchase publications and test preparation materials > d.. Have access to electronic applications for all ABA-approved law > schools > e.. Apply online to law schools > f.. Register for law school forums > g.. Have 24-hour file access > 12. In addition to facilitating the LSAT and law school application > processes, a significant portion of the lsac.org website is devoted to > preparing students to take the LSAT. Among the services offered in that > regard are online information guides that explain how to prepare for the > LSAT and free, downloadable sample practice tests and test questions. > Lsac.org also offers for a fee an online LSAT practice test tool and the > opportunity to purchase more than 40 official LSAT practice tests. > > 13. While sighted visitors to lsac.org can easily obtain the benefits and > advantages offered by the website, blind individuals, including Ms. Goraya, > have been and are being denied access to lsac.org due to LSAC's failure > and refusal to remove access barriers to lsac.org. Specifically, blind > visitors to the website, including Ms. Goraya, cannot independently apply to > law school, register for the LSAT, or obtain in an accessible format the > LSAT preparation materials and practice tests available through lsac.org. > > 14. The blind access websites by using keyboards in conjunction with > screen-reading software. This software vocalizes or conveys to a refreshable > Braille display information that appears visually on a computer screen. > Unless websites are designed to allow for use in this manner, blind persons > are unable to fully access the internet websites and the information, > products and services contained therein. > > 15. There are well-established guidelines for making websites > accessible to the blind. These guidelines have been in place for at least > several years and have been followed successfully by other public > accommodations in making their online services accessible. The Web > Accessibility Initiative (WAI), a project of the World Wide Web Consortium, > which is the leading standards organization for the Web, has developed > guidelines for making information that is reached via the internet > accessible. The federal government has also promulgated accessibility > standards under Section 508 of the Rehabilitation Act. These guidelines > have long been readily available via the internet so that any public > accommodation could easily secure the necessary information. > > 16. Lsac.org contains a variety of access barriers that prevent free > and full use by blind persons using keyboards and screen reading software. > These barriers include but are not limited to: lack of or improperly > labeled form controls; faulty keyboard navigation; and use of tables and > charts that are not formatted for accessibility. Form controls allow users > to input data on online forms and applications. These controls must be > coded and labeled to allow screen-access software to detect and vocalize the > requested information. Keyboard navigation refers to the ability to > successfully navigate a website using keyboard commands, as opposed to > requiring a mouse as the exclusive means for navigation of the site. > Further, charts and tables must be formatted to work with screen-access > software. Much of the lsac.org website, and in particular the online law > school application and LSAT registration sections of the website, lack these > fundamental accessibility components. As a result, blind visitors to the > website cannot independently use those and other critical features. > > 17. Lsac.org's test preparation materials that are available on the > website in Adobe Portable Document (PDF) format, are not properly "tagged." > This means that the headings, paragraphs, tables, image descriptions and > form controls are not easily discernable to screen-reading software. As a > result, these materials are cumbersome, if not impossible, for a blind > visitor to navigate. > > 18. Finally, lsac.org fails to offer LSAT practice tests, available > as part of its test preparation services, in formats accessible to the > blind. While the sighted can easily use the website to obtain more than 40 > formerly administered LSAT practice tests, the website fails to offer the > opportunity to purchase these practice materials in formats accessible to > the blind, such as Braille or an accessible electronic format. > > 19. As a result of lsac.org's accessibility barriers, blind law > school applicants, including Ms. Goraya, must go over extraordinary hurdles > to register and prepare for the LSAT and to apply to law school compared to > their sighted counterparts. After unsuccessfully attempting to use > lsac.org independently to register for the LSAT and fill out her law > school applications, for example, Plaintiff Goraya was forced to select and > rely upon a reader for over 50 hours simply to read aloud the content of the > website and complete her law school applications. Moreover, none of the > LSAT practice materials, which include previously administered versions of > the test, were available to her in accessible electronic formats. Lsac.org > thus contains numerous access barriers which deny full and equal access to > Plaintiff, who would otherwise use the accommodations, advantages, and > facilities of lsac.org. > > 20. On December 10, 2008, Plaintiff National Federation of the Blind > notified LSAC of the unlawful accessibility barriers on its website. LSAC > responded by setting up and then canceling a meeting with the NFB. On > January 22, 2009, the NFB notified LSAC that it intended to pursue legal > action against LSAC for the unlawful barriers on its website. > > FIRST CAUSE OF ACTION > > (Violation of Cal. Civ. Code §§ 54, et seq. - the Disabled Persons Act) > > 21. The allegations contained in the previous paragraphs are > incorporated by reference. > > 22. The Disabled Persons Act ("DPA") requires that individuals with > disabilities have "full and equal access, as other members of the general > public, to accommodations, advantages, facilities, . . . and other places to > which the general public is invited, subject only to the conditions and > limitations established by law, or state or federal regulation, and > applicable alike to all persons." Cal. Civ. Code 54.1(a)(1). > > 23. Lsac.org, which is owned, operated and/or maintained by LSAC, is > an > > accommodation, advantage, facility and/or place to which the general public > is invited, as those terms are used in Cal. Civ. Code § 54.1(a)(1). > > 24. Defendant's conduct alleged herein violates the DPA, including > Cal. Civ. Code § 54.1(a)(1), by denying the Plaintiffs full and equal access > to the accommodations, advantages and facilities of lsac.org. > > 25. As a result of Defendant's conduct, the NFB, the NFB of > California, and Ms. Goraya are entitled to injunctive relief requiring > Defendant to make lsac.org accessible to blind individuals, and to make > the LSAT test practice materials offered to lsac.org patrons available to > blind people in an accessible format. > > SECOND CAUSE OF ACTION > > (Violation of Cal.Civ. Code §§ 51, et seq. - The Unruh Act) > > 26. The allegations contained in the previous paragraphs are > incorporated by reference. > > 27. California's Unruh Act requires that individuals with > disabilities have "full and equal accommodations, advantages, facilities, > privileges or services in all business establishments of every kind > whatsoever." Cal. Civ. Code § 51(b). > > 28. LSAC and Lsac.org are business establishments as that term is > used in Cal. Civ. Code § 51(b) and lsac.org is an accommodation, > advantage, facility, privilege and service of LSAC. > > 29. Defendant's conduct alleged herein violates the Unruh Act, > including Cal. Civ. Code § 51(b), by denying Plaintiffs the full and equal > accommodations, advantages, facilities, privileges or services of LSAC and > lsac.org. > > 30. Defendant violated the Unruh Act intentionally and/or with > deliberate indifference to the likelihood that it was violating the rights > of blind people and/or Defendant's violations were so intuitive or obvious > that noncompliance could not be other than intentional. > > 31. As a result of Defendant's conduct, the NFB, the NFB of > California, and Ms. Goraya are entitled to injunctive relief requiring > Defendant to make lsac.org accessible to blind individuals, and to make > the LSAT test practice materials offered to lsac.org patrons available to > blind people in an accessible format. > > > > THIRD CAUSE OF ACTION > > (Declaratory Relief, Cal. Civ. Proc. § 1060 ) > > 32. The allegations contained in the previous paragraphs are > incorporated by reference. > > 33. On information and belief, Defendants contend that they may > lawfully deny Plaintiffs access to their website and its contents. > Plaintiffs contend that lsac.org, which LSAC owns, operates, and/or > controls, must provide blind patrons access to its website and website > contents under California Civil Code §§ 54, et seq. and California Civil > Code §§ 51, et seq., which prohibit discrimination against the blind. > > 34. A judicial declaration is necessary and appropriate at this time > in order that each of the parties may know their respective rights and > duties and act accordingly. > > WHEREFORE, Plaintiffs request relief as set forth below. > > RELIEF REQUESTED > > WHEREFORE, Plaintiffs pray for judgment as follows: > > 1. An order enjoining LSAC from violating California > Civil Code §§ 51, et seq. and §§ 54, et seq.; > > 2. A declaration that LSAC is owning, maintaining and/or > operating lsac.org in a manner which discriminates against the blind and > which fails to provide access for persons with disabilities as required by > law; > > 3. Plaintiffs' reasonable attorneys' fees and costs as > authorized by California California Civil Code §§ 54, et seq., California > Civil Code §§ 51, et seq., and pursuant to California Code of Civil > Procedure § 1021.5. > > 4. Such other and further relief as the Court deems just > and proper. > > > > DATED: > DISABILITY RIGHTS ADVOCATES > > > > By: > ____________________________ > > > Laurence W. Paradis > > > > > > Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. > > LaBarre Law Offices P.C. > 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 > Denver, Colorado 80222 > 303 504-5979 (voice) > 303 757-3640 (fax) > slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) > www.labarrelaw.com (website) > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and > privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not > read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message > in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or > slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. This > message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic > Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b75205%40gmail.com > > From bspiry at comcast.net Tue Mar 10 14:05:20 2009 From: bspiry at comcast.net (Bill Spiry) Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 07:05:20 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. lsac complaint In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <001401c9a189$3fa59ee0$bef0dca0$@net> I would appreciate receiving this as well. Thanks. bspiry at comcast.net -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of James Pepper Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 1:46 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. lsac complaint Scott: I laid out the first section of the LSAT to be accessible and I can send you the files if you would like to see it. Also I made the form that they use accessible so the blind can fill out the test without assistance. This works with JAWS and Window Eyes and a combination of Adobe's Read out Loud and Microsoft Narrator. My process works and if you need references at NFB, AFB and the AAPD I can send them to you. It took a while to figure out how they made thier pdfs and I know where they are making their mistakes. I can correct this problem. These PDFs are made to work natively with JAWS and Adobe Reader and the other screen readers without making any adjustments. They work with the default settings in Adobe Reader. Also the forms can be digitally signed and saved and all that fancy stuff that you expect with Adobe Acrobat Professional can be done with Adobe Reader, versions 8 or 9 which is the free download from Adobe.com. So we can make the LSAT accessible to anyone with a PC running Windows XP Or VIsta without any change of settings. This means the PC can be there for the sighted and the blind, with equal access for all. Also since I labeled everything, it will be a lot quicker for you to fill out this test! Sincerely, James G. Pepper On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 4:32 PM, Scott C. LaBarre wrote: > Below I am sharing the complaint that we filed today in California Court. > ************** > LaurEnce W. paradis (California Bar No. 122336) > > Anna levine (California Bar No. 227881) > > Disability Rights Advocates > > 2001 Center Street, Third Floor > > Berkeley, California 94704 > > Telephone: (510) 665-8644 > > Facsimile: (510) 665-8511 > > TTY: (510) 665-8716 > > > > SCOTT LABARRE (to seek pro hac vice admission) > > LABARRE LAW OFFICES, P.C. > > 1660 S. Albion Street, Ste 918 > > Denver, Colo 80222 > > Telephone: (303) 504-5979 > > Fax: (303) 757-3640 > > > > DANIEL F. GOLDSTEIN (to seek pro hac vice admission) > > MEHGAN Sidhu (to seek pro hac vice admission) > > Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP > > 120 E. Baltimore St., Suite 1700 > > Baltimore, MD 21202 > > Telephone: (410) 962-1030 > > Fax: (410) 385-0869 > > > > SUPERIOR COURT OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA > COUNTY OF ALAMEDA > > > > National Federation of the Blind, the National Federation of the Blind > of CALIFORNIA, and DEEPA GORAYA, > > > > Plaintiffs, > > v. > > LAW SCHOOL ADMISSION COUNCIL, INC., > > Defendant. > > > > Case No.: > > > > > > COMPLAINT FOR INJUNCTIVE AND DECLARATORY RELIEF FOR VIOLATIONS OF THE > CALIFORNIA DISABLED PERSONS ACT AND UNRUH CIVIL RIGHTS ACT > > > > > INTRODUCTION > > Plaintiffs complain of Defendant and allege herein as follows: > > 1. This action, brought by the National Federation of the Blind, > the National Federation of the Blind of California, and Deepa Goraya, seeks > to put an end to civil rights violations committed by defendant Law School > Admissions Council (hereafter "LSAC") against blind persons seeking to take > the LSAT exam and apply to law schools. Plaintiff Deepa Goraya, a blind law > school applicant in California, has been and is being denied equal access to > the accommodations, advantages, and facilities LSAC provides its > non-disabled customers through http://www.lsac.org (hereafter "lsac.org" > and "the website"). Plaintiffs National Federation of the Blind and the > National Federation of the Blind of California have members who are > similarly denied full and equal access to such accommodations, advantages > and facilities. Lsac.org is currently the only place online where > prospective law students can register for the Law School Admissions Test > ("LSAT"), apply to law schools, and obtain official LSAT test preparation > materials and information. Lsac.org contains multiple access barriers that > make it difficult if not impossible for blind law school applicants and LSAT > test takers to use the website and to obtain practice materials without > sighted assistance. LSAC thus excludes the blind, including Ms. Goraya, > from full and equal access to the accommodations, advantages, facilities, > and privileges of lsac.org. > > JURISDICTION > > 2. This is a civil action under California's Disabled Persons Act > (Cal. Civ. Code §§ 54, et seq.) and the Unruh Civil Rights Act (Cal. Civ. > Code §§ 51, et seq.) and for declaratory relief. This Court has > jurisdiction over the claims alleged herein pursuant to California Civil > Code §§ 54, et seq. and California Civil Code §§ 51, et seq. and California > Code of Civil Procedure section 1060. > > 3. This Court has jurisdiction over LSAC because LSAC is a > corporation authorized to do business in California and LSAC conducts > substantial business in California. LSAC owns, maintains and operates its > website, lsac.org, throughout California and in Alameda County. > > > > VENUE > > 4. Venue is proper in Alameda County because liability arises in > part in Alameda County, where the National Federation of the Blind of > California has its headquarters. LSAC has been and is committing the acts > alleged herein in Alameda County, has been and is violating the rights of > patrons in Alameda County, and has been and is causing injury to patrons in > Alameda County. > > 5. Plaintiff Goraya is a California citizen and has experienced > injury in California as a result of LSAC's inaccessible website and practice > materials. > > PARTIES > > 6. Plaintiff the National Federation of the Blind (hereafter "NFB") > is a national advocacy organization. The NFB, the oldest and largest > national organization of blind persons, is a non-profit corporation duly > organized under the laws of the District of Columbia with its principal > place of business in Baltimore, Maryland. It has affiliates in all 50 > states (including California) as well as Washington, D.C. and Puerto Rico. > The vast majority of the approximately 50,000 members are blind persons. > The NFB is widely recognized by the public, Congress, executive agencies of > government and the courts as a collective and representative voice on behalf > of blind Americans and their families. The purpose of the NFB is to promote > the general welfare of the blind by (1) assisting the blind in their efforts > to integrate themselves into society on terms of equality and (2) removing > barriers and changing social attitudes, stereotypes and mistaken beliefs > that sighted and blind persons hold concerning the limitations created by > blindness resulting in the denial of opportunity to blind persons in > virtually every sphere of life. The NFB and many of its members have long > been actively involved in promoting adaptive technology for the blind, so > that blind persons can live and work independently in today's > technology-dependent world. NFB members reside throughout the United > States, including the state of California, and many of its members would use > the services of lsac.org if this website is made independently usable by > the blind. > > 7. Plaintiff the National Federation of the Blind of California > (hereafter "NFB of California") is a state affiliate of the National > Federation of the Blind. NFB of California is a California corporation and > carries out NFB's objectives at the state level. It has local chapters > throughout California, including Alameda County, and has its headquarters in > Fremont, California, in Alameda County. > > 8. Plaintiff Goraya is a member of the NFB and the NFB of > California. She is blind and has been denied full and equal access to the > accommodations, advantages, facilities and privileges of lsac.org. > > 9. Defendant LSAC, is a non-profit corporation > established to coordinate, facilitate, and enhance the law school admissions > process. LSAC owns, operates and/or maintains the website lsac.com, a > public accommodation. Plaintiffs seek access to the services provided by > LSAC in California through lsac.org. > > FACTS > > 10. Lsac.org is owned, controlled and/or operated by LSAC. Lsac.org > is a public accommodation that offers its visitors comprehensive services > for applying to law school. The website functions as the official > destination for guiding prospective law school applicants through the > fundamental steps of applying to law school. Among its services, lsac.orgoffers information about the LSAT and law school application process, and > extensive LSAT preparation materials and resources. Lsac.org also serves as > the exclusive online means for registering for the LSAT and applying to > ABA-accredited law schools. > > 11. According to the website, lsac.org's online services enable > prospective law students to do the following, among other things: > > a.. Register for the LSAT > b.. Register for the LSDAS (Law School Data Assembly Service) > c.. Purchase publications and test preparation materials > d.. Have access to electronic applications for all ABA-approved law > schools > e.. Apply online to law schools > f.. Register for law school forums > g.. Have 24-hour file access > 12. In addition to facilitating the LSAT and law school application > processes, a significant portion of the lsac.org website is devoted to > preparing students to take the LSAT. Among the services offered in that > regard are online information guides that explain how to prepare for the > LSAT and free, downloadable sample practice tests and test questions. > Lsac.org also offers for a fee an online LSAT practice test tool and the > opportunity to purchase more than 40 official LSAT practice tests. > > 13. While sighted visitors to lsac.org can easily obtain the benefits and > advantages offered by the website, blind individuals, including Ms. Goraya, > have been and are being denied access to lsac.org due to LSAC's failure > and refusal to remove access barriers to lsac.org. Specifically, blind > visitors to the website, including Ms. Goraya, cannot independently apply to > law school, register for the LSAT, or obtain in an accessible format the > LSAT preparation materials and practice tests available through lsac.org. > > 14. The blind access websites by using keyboards in conjunction with > screen-reading software. This software vocalizes or conveys to a refreshable > Braille display information that appears visually on a computer screen. > Unless websites are designed to allow for use in this manner, blind persons > are unable to fully access the internet websites and the information, > products and services contained therein. > > 15. There are well-established guidelines for making websites > accessible to the blind. These guidelines have been in place for at least > several years and have been followed successfully by other public > accommodations in making their online services accessible. The Web > Accessibility Initiative (WAI), a project of the World Wide Web Consortium, > which is the leading standards organization for the Web, has developed > guidelines for making information that is reached via the internet > accessible. The federal government has also promulgated accessibility > standards under Section 508 of the Rehabilitation Act. These guidelines > have long been readily available via the internet so that any public > accommodation could easily secure the necessary information. > > 16. Lsac.org contains a variety of access barriers that prevent free > and full use by blind persons using keyboards and screen reading software. > These barriers include but are not limited to: lack of or improperly > labeled form controls; faulty keyboard navigation; and use of tables and > charts that are not formatted for accessibility. Form controls allow users > to input data on online forms and applications. These controls must be > coded and labeled to allow screen-access software to detect and vocalize the > requested information. Keyboard navigation refers to the ability to > successfully navigate a website using keyboard commands, as opposed to > requiring a mouse as the exclusive means for navigation of the site. > Further, charts and tables must be formatted to work with screen-access > software. Much of the lsac.org website, and in particular the online law > school application and LSAT registration sections of the website, lack these > fundamental accessibility components. As a result, blind visitors to the > website cannot independently use those and other critical features. > > 17. Lsac.org's test preparation materials that are available on the > website in Adobe Portable Document (PDF) format, are not properly "tagged." > This means that the headings, paragraphs, tables, image descriptions and > form controls are not easily discernable to screen-reading software. As a > result, these materials are cumbersome, if not impossible, for a blind > visitor to navigate. > > 18. Finally, lsac.org fails to offer LSAT practice tests, available > as part of its test preparation services, in formats accessible to the > blind. While the sighted can easily use the website to obtain more than 40 > formerly administered LSAT practice tests, the website fails to offer the > opportunity to purchase these practice materials in formats accessible to > the blind, such as Braille or an accessible electronic format. > > 19. As a result of lsac.org's accessibility barriers, blind law > school applicants, including Ms. Goraya, must go over extraordinary hurdles > to register and prepare for the LSAT and to apply to law school compared to > their sighted counterparts. After unsuccessfully attempting to use > lsac.org independently to register for the LSAT and fill out her law > school applications, for example, Plaintiff Goraya was forced to select and > rely upon a reader for over 50 hours simply to read aloud the content of the > website and complete her law school applications. Moreover, none of the > LSAT practice materials, which include previously administered versions of > the test, were available to her in accessible electronic formats. Lsac.org > thus contains numerous access barriers which deny full and equal access to > Plaintiff, who would otherwise use the accommodations, advantages, and > facilities of lsac.org. > > 20. On December 10, 2008, Plaintiff National Federation of the Blind > notified LSAC of the unlawful accessibility barriers on its website. LSAC > responded by setting up and then canceling a meeting with the NFB. On > January 22, 2009, the NFB notified LSAC that it intended to pursue legal > action against LSAC for the unlawful barriers on its website. > > FIRST CAUSE OF ACTION > > (Violation of Cal. Civ. Code §§ 54, et seq. - the Disabled Persons Act) > > 21. The allegations contained in the previous paragraphs are > incorporated by reference. > > 22. The Disabled Persons Act ("DPA") requires that individuals with > disabilities have "full and equal access, as other members of the general > public, to accommodations, advantages, facilities, . . . and other places to > which the general public is invited, subject only to the conditions and > limitations established by law, or state or federal regulation, and > applicable alike to all persons." Cal. Civ. Code 54.1(a)(1). > > 23. Lsac.org, which is owned, operated and/or maintained by LSAC, is > an > > accommodation, advantage, facility and/or place to which the general public > is invited, as those terms are used in Cal. Civ. Code § 54.1(a)(1). > > 24. Defendant's conduct alleged herein violates the DPA, including > Cal. Civ. Code § 54.1(a)(1), by denying the Plaintiffs full and equal access > to the accommodations, advantages and facilities of lsac.org. > > 25. As a result of Defendant's conduct, the NFB, the NFB of > California, and Ms. Goraya are entitled to injunctive relief requiring > Defendant to make lsac.org accessible to blind individuals, and to make > the LSAT test practice materials offered to lsac.org patrons available to > blind people in an accessible format. > > SECOND CAUSE OF ACTION > > (Violation of Cal.Civ. Code §§ 51, et seq. - The Unruh Act) > > 26. The allegations contained in the previous paragraphs are > incorporated by reference. > > 27. California's Unruh Act requires that individuals with > disabilities have "full and equal accommodations, advantages, facilities, > privileges or services in all business establishments of every kind > whatsoever." Cal. Civ. Code § 51(b). > > 28. LSAC and Lsac.org are business establishments as that term is > used in Cal. Civ. Code § 51(b) and lsac.org is an accommodation, > advantage, facility, privilege and service of LSAC. > > 29. Defendant's conduct alleged herein violates the Unruh Act, > including Cal. Civ. Code § 51(b), by denying Plaintiffs the full and equal > accommodations, advantages, facilities, privileges or services of LSAC and > lsac.org. > > 30. Defendant violated the Unruh Act intentionally and/or with > deliberate indifference to the likelihood that it was violating the rights > of blind people and/or Defendant's violations were so intuitive or obvious > that noncompliance could not be other than intentional. > > 31. As a result of Defendant's conduct, the NFB, the NFB of > California, and Ms. Goraya are entitled to injunctive relief requiring > Defendant to make lsac.org accessible to blind individuals, and to make > the LSAT test practice materials offered to lsac.org patrons available to > blind people in an accessible format. > > > > THIRD CAUSE OF ACTION > > (Declaratory Relief, Cal. Civ. Proc. § 1060 ) > > 32. The allegations contained in the previous paragraphs are > incorporated by reference. > > 33. On information and belief, Defendants contend that they may > lawfully deny Plaintiffs access to their website and its contents. > Plaintiffs contend that lsac.org, which LSAC owns, operates, and/or > controls, must provide blind patrons access to its website and website > contents under California Civil Code §§ 54, et seq. and California Civil > Code §§ 51, et seq., which prohibit discrimination against the blind. > > 34. A judicial declaration is necessary and appropriate at this time > in order that each of the parties may know their respective rights and > duties and act accordingly. > > WHEREFORE, Plaintiffs request relief as set forth below. > > RELIEF REQUESTED > > WHEREFORE, Plaintiffs pray for judgment as follows: > > 1. An order enjoining LSAC from violating California > Civil Code §§ 51, et seq. and §§ 54, et seq.; > > 2. A declaration that LSAC is owning, maintaining and/or > operating lsac.org in a manner which discriminates against the blind and > which fails to provide access for persons with disabilities as required by > law; > > 3. Plaintiffs' reasonable attorneys' fees and costs as > authorized by California California Civil Code §§ 54, et seq., California > Civil Code §§ 51, et seq., and pursuant to California Code of Civil > Procedure § 1021.5. > > 4. Such other and further relief as the Court deems just > and proper. > > > > DATED: > DISABILITY RIGHTS ADVOCATES > > > > By: > ____________________________ > > > Laurence W. Paradis > > > > > > Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. > > LaBarre Law Offices P.C. > 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 > Denver, Colorado 80222 > 303 504-5979 (voice) > 303 757-3640 (fax) > slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) > www.labarrelaw.com (website) > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and > privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not > read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message > in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or > slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. This > message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic > Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b75205%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/bspiry%40comcast.n et From b75205 at gmail.com Tue Mar 10 17:42:38 2009 From: b75205 at gmail.com (James Pepper) Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 12:42:38 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. lsac complaint In-Reply-To: <001401c9a189$3fa59ee0$bef0dca0$@net> References: <001401c9a189$3fa59ee0$bef0dca0$@net> Message-ID: Well Bill the content is copyrighted by LSAC so I am not sure I can send this to you. Perhaps some on this list can give that advice. I laid it out properly. James On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 9:05 AM, Bill Spiry wrote: > I would appreciate receiving this as well. Thanks. > bspiry at comcast.net > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of James Pepper > Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 1:46 AM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. lsac complaint > > Scott: I laid out the first section of the LSAT to be accessible and I > can > send you the files if you would like to see it. Also I made the form that > they use accessible so the blind can fill out the test without assistance. > This works with JAWS and Window Eyes and a combination of Adobe's Read out > Loud and Microsoft Narrator. My process works and if you need references > at > NFB, AFB and the AAPD I can send them to you. > > It took a while to figure out how they made thier pdfs and I know where > they > are making their mistakes. I can correct this problem. These PDFs are made > to work natively with JAWS and Adobe Reader and the other screen readers > without making any adjustments. They work with the default settings in > Adobe Reader. > > Also the forms can be digitally signed and saved and all that fancy stuff > that you expect with Adobe Acrobat Professional can be done with > Adobe Reader, versions 8 or 9 which is the free download from Adobe.com. > So > we can make the LSAT accessible to anyone with a PC running Windows XP Or > VIsta without any change of settings. This means the PC can be there for > the sighted and the blind, with equal access for all. > > Also since I labeled everything, it will be a lot quicker for you to fill > out this test! > > Sincerely, > > James G. Pepper > > > > On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 4:32 PM, Scott C. LaBarre > wrote: > > > Below I am sharing the complaint that we filed today in California Court. > > ************** > > LaurEnce W. paradis (California Bar No. 122336) > > > > Anna levine (California Bar No. 227881) > > > > Disability Rights Advocates > > > > 2001 Center Street, Third Floor > > > > Berkeley, California 94704 > > > > Telephone: (510) 665-8644 > > > > Facsimile: (510) 665-8511 > > > > TTY: (510) 665-8716 > > > > > > > > SCOTT LABARRE (to seek pro hac vice admission) > > > > LABARRE LAW OFFICES, P.C. > > > > 1660 S. Albion Street, Ste 918 > > > > Denver, Colo 80222 > > > > Telephone: (303) 504-5979 > > > > Fax: (303) 757-3640 > > > > > > > > DANIEL F. GOLDSTEIN (to seek pro hac vice admission) > > > > MEHGAN Sidhu (to seek pro hac vice admission) > > > > Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP > > > > 120 E. Baltimore St., Suite 1700 > > > > Baltimore, MD 21202 > > > > Telephone: (410) 962-1030 > > > > Fax: (410) 385-0869 > > > > > > > > SUPERIOR COURT OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA > > COUNTY OF ALAMEDA > > > > > > > > National Federation of the Blind, the National Federation of the > Blind > > of CALIFORNIA, and DEEPA GORAYA, > > > > > > > > Plaintiffs, > > > > v. > > > > LAW SCHOOL ADMISSION COUNCIL, INC., > > > > Defendant. > > > > > > > > Case No.: > > > > > > > > > > > > COMPLAINT FOR INJUNCTIVE AND DECLARATORY RELIEF FOR VIOLATIONS OF > THE > > CALIFORNIA DISABLED PERSONS ACT AND UNRUH CIVIL RIGHTS ACT > > > > > > > > > > INTRODUCTION > > > > Plaintiffs complain of Defendant and allege herein as follows: > > > > 1. This action, brought by the National Federation of the Blind, > > the National Federation of the Blind of California, and Deepa Goraya, > seeks > > to put an end to civil rights violations committed by defendant Law > School > > Admissions Council (hereafter "LSAC") against blind persons seeking to > take > > the LSAT exam and apply to law schools. Plaintiff Deepa Goraya, a blind > law > > school applicant in California, has been and is being denied equal access > to > > the accommodations, advantages, and facilities LSAC provides its > > non-disabled customers through http://www.lsac.org (hereafter "lsac.org" > > and "the website"). Plaintiffs National Federation of the Blind and the > > National Federation of the Blind of California have members who are > > similarly denied full and equal access to such accommodations, advantages > > and facilities. Lsac.org is currently the only place online where > > prospective law students can register for the Law School Admissions Test > > ("LSAT"), apply to law schools, and obtain official LSAT test preparation > > materials and information. Lsac.org contains multiple access barriers > that > > make it difficult if not impossible for blind law school applicants and > LSAT > > test takers to use the website and to obtain practice materials without > > sighted assistance. LSAC thus excludes the blind, including Ms. Goraya, > > from full and equal access to the accommodations, advantages, facilities, > > and privileges of lsac.org. > > > > JURISDICTION > > > > 2. This is a civil action under California's Disabled Persons Act > > (Cal. Civ. Code §§ 54, et seq.) and the Unruh Civil Rights Act (Cal. Civ. > > Code §§ 51, et seq.) and for declaratory relief. This Court has > > jurisdiction over the claims alleged herein pursuant to California Civil > > Code §§ 54, et seq. and California Civil Code §§ 51, et seq. and > California > > Code of Civil Procedure section 1060. > > > > 3. This Court has jurisdiction over LSAC because LSAC is a > > corporation authorized to do business in California and LSAC conducts > > substantial business in California. LSAC owns, maintains and operates its > > website, lsac.org, throughout California and in Alameda County. > > > > > > > > VENUE > > > > 4. Venue is proper in Alameda County because liability arises in > > part in Alameda County, where the National Federation of the Blind of > > California has its headquarters. LSAC has been and is committing the > acts > > alleged herein in Alameda County, has been and is violating the rights of > > patrons in Alameda County, and has been and is causing injury to patrons > in > > Alameda County. > > > > 5. Plaintiff Goraya is a California citizen and has experienced > > injury in California as a result of LSAC's inaccessible website and > practice > > materials. > > > > PARTIES > > > > 6. Plaintiff the National Federation of the Blind (hereafter > "NFB") > > is a national advocacy organization. The NFB, the oldest and largest > > national organization of blind persons, is a non-profit corporation duly > > organized under the laws of the District of Columbia with its principal > > place of business in Baltimore, Maryland. It has affiliates in all 50 > > states (including California) as well as Washington, D.C. and Puerto > Rico. > > The vast majority of the approximately 50,000 members are blind persons. > > The NFB is widely recognized by the public, Congress, executive agencies > of > > government and the courts as a collective and representative voice on > behalf > > of blind Americans and their families. The purpose of the NFB is to > promote > > the general welfare of the blind by (1) assisting the blind in their > efforts > > to integrate themselves into society on terms of equality and (2) > removing > > barriers and changing social attitudes, stereotypes and mistaken beliefs > > that sighted and blind persons hold concerning the limitations created by > > blindness resulting in the denial of opportunity to blind persons in > > virtually every sphere of life. The NFB and many of its members have > long > > been actively involved in promoting adaptive technology for the blind, so > > that blind persons can live and work independently in today's > > technology-dependent world. NFB members reside throughout the United > > States, including the state of California, and many of its members would > use > > the services of lsac.org if this website is made independently usable by > > the blind. > > > > 7. Plaintiff the National Federation of the Blind of California > > (hereafter "NFB of California") is a state affiliate of the National > > Federation of the Blind. NFB of California is a California corporation > and > > carries out NFB's objectives at the state level. It has local chapters > > throughout California, including Alameda County, and has its headquarters > in > > Fremont, California, in Alameda County. > > > > 8. Plaintiff Goraya is a member of the NFB and the NFB of > > California. She is blind and has been denied full and equal access to > the > > accommodations, advantages, facilities and privileges of lsac.org. > > > > 9. Defendant LSAC, is a non-profit corporation > > established to coordinate, facilitate, and enhance the law school > admissions > > process. LSAC owns, operates and/or maintains the website lsac.com, a > > public accommodation. Plaintiffs seek access to the services provided by > > LSAC in California through lsac.org. > > > > FACTS > > > > 10. Lsac.org is owned, controlled and/or operated by LSAC. > Lsac.org > > is a public accommodation that offers its visitors comprehensive services > > for applying to law school. The website functions as the official > > destination for guiding prospective law school applicants through the > > fundamental steps of applying to law school. Among its services, > lsac.orgoffers information about the LSAT and law school application > process, and > > extensive LSAT preparation materials and resources. Lsac.org also serves > as > > the exclusive online means for registering for the LSAT and applying to > > ABA-accredited law schools. > > > > 11. According to the website, lsac.org's online services enable > > prospective law students to do the following, among other things: > > > > a.. Register for the LSAT > > b.. Register for the LSDAS (Law School Data Assembly Service) > > c.. Purchase publications and test preparation materials > > d.. Have access to electronic applications for all ABA-approved law > > schools > > e.. Apply online to law schools > > f.. Register for law school forums > > g.. Have 24-hour file access > > 12. In addition to facilitating the LSAT and law school application > > processes, a significant portion of the lsac.org website is devoted to > > preparing students to take the LSAT. Among the services offered in that > > regard are online information guides that explain how to prepare for the > > LSAT and free, downloadable sample practice tests and test questions. > > Lsac.org also offers for a fee an online LSAT practice test tool and the > > opportunity to purchase more than 40 official LSAT practice tests. > > > > 13. While sighted visitors to lsac.org can easily obtain the benefits > and > > advantages offered by the website, blind individuals, including Ms. > Goraya, > > have been and are being denied access to lsac.org due to LSAC's failure > > and refusal to remove access barriers to lsac.org. Specifically, blind > > visitors to the website, including Ms. Goraya, cannot independently apply > to > > law school, register for the LSAT, or obtain in an accessible format the > > LSAT preparation materials and practice tests available through lsac.org > . > > > > 14. The blind access websites by using keyboards in conjunction > with > > screen-reading software. This software vocalizes or conveys to a > refreshable > > Braille display information that appears visually on a computer screen. > > Unless websites are designed to allow for use in this manner, blind > persons > > are unable to fully access the internet websites and the information, > > products and services contained therein. > > > > 15. There are well-established guidelines for making websites > > accessible to the blind. These guidelines have been in place for at > least > > several years and have been followed successfully by other public > > accommodations in making their online services accessible. The Web > > Accessibility Initiative (WAI), a project of the World Wide Web > Consortium, > > which is the leading standards organization for the Web, has developed > > guidelines for making information that is reached via the internet > > accessible. The federal government has also promulgated accessibility > > standards under Section 508 of the Rehabilitation Act. These guidelines > > have long been readily available via the internet so that any public > > accommodation could easily secure the necessary information. > > > > 16. Lsac.org contains a variety of access barriers that prevent > free > > and full use by blind persons using keyboards and screen reading > software. > > These barriers include but are not limited to: lack of or improperly > > labeled form controls; faulty keyboard navigation; and use of tables and > > charts that are not formatted for accessibility. Form controls allow > users > > to input data on online forms and applications. These controls must be > > coded and labeled to allow screen-access software to detect and vocalize > the > > requested information. Keyboard navigation refers to the ability to > > successfully navigate a website using keyboard commands, as opposed to > > requiring a mouse as the exclusive means for navigation of the site. > > Further, charts and tables must be formatted to work with screen-access > > software. Much of the lsac.org website, and in particular the online > law > > school application and LSAT registration sections of the website, lack > these > > fundamental accessibility components. As a result, blind visitors to the > > website cannot independently use those and other critical features. > > > > 17. Lsac.org's test preparation materials that are available on the > > website in Adobe Portable Document (PDF) format, are not properly > "tagged." > > This means that the headings, paragraphs, tables, image descriptions and > > form controls are not easily discernable to screen-reading software. As > a > > result, these materials are cumbersome, if not impossible, for a blind > > visitor to navigate. > > > > 18. Finally, lsac.org fails to offer LSAT practice tests, > available > > as part of its test preparation services, in formats accessible to the > > blind. While the sighted can easily use the website to obtain more than > 40 > > formerly administered LSAT practice tests, the website fails to offer the > > opportunity to purchase these practice materials in formats accessible to > > the blind, such as Braille or an accessible electronic format. > > > > 19. As a result of lsac.org's accessibility barriers, blind law > > school applicants, including Ms. Goraya, must go over extraordinary > hurdles > > to register and prepare for the LSAT and to apply to law school compared > to > > their sighted counterparts. After unsuccessfully attempting to use > > lsac.org independently to register for the LSAT and fill out her law > > school applications, for example, Plaintiff Goraya was forced to select > and > > rely upon a reader for over 50 hours simply to read aloud the content of > the > > website and complete her law school applications. Moreover, none of the > > LSAT practice materials, which include previously administered versions > of > > the test, were available to her in accessible electronic formats. > Lsac.org > > thus contains numerous access barriers which deny full and equal access > to > > Plaintiff, who would otherwise use the accommodations, advantages, and > > facilities of lsac.org. > > > > 20. On December 10, 2008, Plaintiff National Federation of the > Blind > > notified LSAC of the unlawful accessibility barriers on its website. > LSAC > > responded by setting up and then canceling a meeting with the NFB. On > > January 22, 2009, the NFB notified LSAC that it intended to pursue legal > > action against LSAC for the unlawful barriers on its website. > > > > FIRST CAUSE OF ACTION > > > > (Violation of Cal. Civ. Code §§ 54, et seq. - the Disabled Persons Act) > > > > 21. The allegations contained in the previous paragraphs are > > incorporated by reference. > > > > 22. The Disabled Persons Act ("DPA") requires that individuals with > > disabilities have "full and equal access, as other members of the general > > public, to accommodations, advantages, facilities, . . . and other places > to > > which the general public is invited, subject only to the conditions and > > limitations established by law, or state or federal regulation, and > > applicable alike to all persons." Cal. Civ. Code 54.1(a)(1). > > > > 23. Lsac.org, which is owned, operated and/or maintained by LSAC, > is > > an > > > > accommodation, advantage, facility and/or place to which the general > public > > is invited, as those terms are used in Cal. Civ. Code § 54.1(a)(1). > > > > 24. Defendant's conduct alleged herein violates the DPA, including > > Cal. Civ. Code § 54.1(a)(1), by denying the Plaintiffs full and equal > access > > to the accommodations, advantages and facilities of lsac.org. > > > > 25. As a result of Defendant's conduct, the NFB, the NFB of > > California, and Ms. Goraya are entitled to injunctive relief requiring > > Defendant to make lsac.org accessible to blind individuals, and to make > > the LSAT test practice materials offered to lsac.org patrons available > to > > blind people in an accessible format. > > > > SECOND CAUSE OF ACTION > > > > (Violation of Cal.Civ. Code §§ 51, et seq. - The Unruh Act) > > > > 26. The allegations contained in the previous paragraphs are > > incorporated by reference. > > > > 27. California's Unruh Act requires that individuals with > > disabilities have "full and equal accommodations, advantages, facilities, > > privileges or services in all business establishments of every kind > > whatsoever." Cal. Civ. Code § 51(b). > > > > 28. LSAC and Lsac.org are business establishments as that term is > > used in Cal. Civ. Code § 51(b) and lsac.org is an accommodation, > > advantage, facility, privilege and service of LSAC. > > > > 29. Defendant's conduct alleged herein violates the Unruh Act, > > including Cal. Civ. Code § 51(b), by denying Plaintiffs the full and > equal > > accommodations, advantages, facilities, privileges or services of LSAC > and > > lsac.org. > > > > 30. Defendant violated the Unruh Act intentionally and/or with > > deliberate indifference to the likelihood that it was violating the > rights > > of blind people and/or Defendant's violations were so intuitive or > obvious > > that noncompliance could not be other than intentional. > > > > 31. As a result of Defendant's conduct, the NFB, the NFB of > > California, and Ms. Goraya are entitled to injunctive relief requiring > > Defendant to make lsac.org accessible to blind individuals, and to make > > the LSAT test practice materials offered to lsac.org patrons available > to > > blind people in an accessible format. > > > > > > > > THIRD CAUSE OF ACTION > > > > (Declaratory Relief, Cal. Civ. Proc. § 1060 ) > > > > 32. The allegations contained in the previous paragraphs are > > incorporated by reference. > > > > 33. On information and belief, Defendants contend that they may > > lawfully deny Plaintiffs access to their website and its contents. > > Plaintiffs contend that lsac.org, which LSAC owns, operates, and/or > > controls, must provide blind patrons access to its website and website > > contents under California Civil Code §§ 54, et seq. and California Civil > > Code §§ 51, et seq., which prohibit discrimination against the blind. > > > > 34. A judicial declaration is necessary and appropriate at this > time > > in order that each of the parties may know their respective rights and > > duties and act accordingly. > > > > WHEREFORE, Plaintiffs request relief as set forth below. > > > > RELIEF REQUESTED > > > > WHEREFORE, Plaintiffs pray for judgment as follows: > > > > 1. An order enjoining LSAC from violating California > > Civil Code §§ 51, et seq. and §§ 54, et seq.; > > > > 2. A declaration that LSAC is owning, maintaining > and/or > > operating lsac.org in a manner which discriminates against the blind and > > which fails to provide access for persons with disabilities as required > by > > law; > > > > 3. Plaintiffs' reasonable attorneys' fees and costs as > > authorized by California California Civil Code §§ 54, et seq., California > > Civil Code §§ 51, et seq., and pursuant to California Code of Civil > > Procedure § 1021.5. > > > > 4. Such other and further relief as the Court deems > just > > and proper. > > > > > > > > DATED: > > DISABILITY RIGHTS ADVOCATES > > > > > > > > > By: > > ____________________________ > > > > > > Laurence W. Paradis > > > > > > > > > > > > Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. > > > > LaBarre Law Offices P.C. > > 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 > > Denver, Colorado 80222 > > 303 504-5979 (voice) > > 303 757-3640 (fax) > > slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) > > www.labarrelaw.com (website) > > > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and > > privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may > not > > read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this > message > > in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or > > slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. > This > > message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic > > Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. > > _______________________________________________ > > blindlaw mailing list > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > blindlaw: > > > > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b75205%40gmail.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/bspiry%40comcast.n > et > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b75205%40gmail.com > From roddj12 at hotmail.com Tue Mar 10 17:56:41 2009 From: roddj12 at hotmail.com (Rod Alcidonis) Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 13:56:41 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. lsac complaint References: <001401c9a189$3fa59ee0$bef0dca0$@net> Message-ID: You are also violating copyright laws whether you send it to Scott or bill, so you know. Rod Alcidonis Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009. Roger Williams University School of Law 10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 Bristol, RI 02809 Cell: 718-704-4651 Home: 401-824-8685 ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Pepper" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 1:42 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. lsac complaint Well Bill the content is copyrighted by LSAC so I am not sure I can send this to you. Perhaps some on this list can give that advice. I laid it out properly. James On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 9:05 AM, Bill Spiry wrote: > I would appreciate receiving this as well. Thanks. > bspiry at comcast.net > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of James Pepper > Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 1:46 AM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. lsac complaint > > Scott: I laid out the first section of the LSAT to be accessible and I > can > send you the files if you would like to see it. Also I made the form that > they use accessible so the blind can fill out the test without assistance. > This works with JAWS and Window Eyes and a combination of Adobe's Read out > Loud and Microsoft Narrator. My process works and if you need references > at > NFB, AFB and the AAPD I can send them to you. > > It took a while to figure out how they made thier pdfs and I know where > they > are making their mistakes. I can correct this problem. These PDFs are > made > to work natively with JAWS and Adobe Reader and the other screen readers > without making any adjustments. They work with the default settings in > Adobe Reader. > > Also the forms can be digitally signed and saved and all that fancy stuff > that you expect with Adobe Acrobat Professional can be done with > Adobe Reader, versions 8 or 9 which is the free download from Adobe.com. > So > we can make the LSAT accessible to anyone with a PC running Windows XP Or > VIsta without any change of settings. This means the PC can be there for > the sighted and the blind, with equal access for all. > > Also since I labeled everything, it will be a lot quicker for you to fill > out this test! > > Sincerely, > > James G. Pepper > > > > On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 4:32 PM, Scott C. LaBarre > wrote: > > > Below I am sharing the complaint that we filed today in California > > Court. > > ************** > > LaurEnce W. paradis (California Bar No. 122336) > > > > Anna levine (California Bar No. 227881) > > > > Disability Rights Advocates > > > > 2001 Center Street, Third Floor > > > > Berkeley, California 94704 > > > > Telephone: (510) 665-8644 > > > > Facsimile: (510) 665-8511 > > > > TTY: (510) 665-8716 > > > > > > > > SCOTT LABARRE (to seek pro hac vice admission) > > > > LABARRE LAW OFFICES, P.C. > > > > 1660 S. Albion Street, Ste 918 > > > > Denver, Colo 80222 > > > > Telephone: (303) 504-5979 > > > > Fax: (303) 757-3640 > > > > > > > > DANIEL F. GOLDSTEIN (to seek pro hac vice admission) > > > > MEHGAN Sidhu (to seek pro hac vice admission) > > > > Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP > > > > 120 E. Baltimore St., Suite 1700 > > > > Baltimore, MD 21202 > > > > Telephone: (410) 962-1030 > > > > Fax: (410) 385-0869 > > > > > > > > SUPERIOR COURT OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA > > COUNTY OF ALAMEDA > > > > > > > > National Federation of the Blind, the National Federation of the > Blind > > of CALIFORNIA, and DEEPA GORAYA, > > > > > > > > Plaintiffs, > > > > v. > > > > LAW SCHOOL ADMISSION COUNCIL, INC., > > > > Defendant. > > > > > > > > Case No.: > > > > > > > > > > > > COMPLAINT FOR INJUNCTIVE AND DECLARATORY RELIEF FOR VIOLATIONS OF > THE > > CALIFORNIA DISABLED PERSONS ACT AND UNRUH CIVIL RIGHTS ACT > > > > > > > > > > INTRODUCTION > > > > Plaintiffs complain of Defendant and allege herein as follows: > > > > 1. This action, brought by the National Federation of the Blind, > > the National Federation of the Blind of California, and Deepa Goraya, > seeks > > to put an end to civil rights violations committed by defendant Law > School > > Admissions Council (hereafter "LSAC") against blind persons seeking to > take > > the LSAT exam and apply to law schools. Plaintiff Deepa Goraya, a blind > law > > school applicant in California, has been and is being denied equal > > access > to > > the accommodations, advantages, and facilities LSAC provides its > > non-disabled customers through http://www.lsac.org (hereafter "lsac.org" > > and "the website"). Plaintiffs National Federation of the Blind and the > > National Federation of the Blind of California have members who are > > similarly denied full and equal access to such accommodations, > > advantages > > and facilities. Lsac.org is currently the only place online where > > prospective law students can register for the Law School Admissions Test > > ("LSAT"), apply to law schools, and obtain official LSAT test > > preparation > > materials and information. Lsac.org contains multiple access barriers > that > > make it difficult if not impossible for blind law school applicants and > LSAT > > test takers to use the website and to obtain practice materials without > > sighted assistance. LSAC thus excludes the blind, including Ms. Goraya, > > from full and equal access to the accommodations, advantages, > > facilities, > > and privileges of lsac.org. > > > > JURISDICTION > > > > 2. This is a civil action under California's Disabled Persons > > Act > > (Cal. Civ. Code §§ 54, et seq.) and the Unruh Civil Rights Act (Cal. > > Civ. > > Code §§ 51, et seq.) and for declaratory relief. This Court has > > jurisdiction over the claims alleged herein pursuant to California Civil > > Code §§ 54, et seq. and California Civil Code §§ 51, et seq. and > California > > Code of Civil Procedure section 1060. > > > > 3. This Court has jurisdiction over LSAC because LSAC is a > > corporation authorized to do business in California and LSAC conducts > > substantial business in California. LSAC owns, maintains and operates > > its > > website, lsac.org, throughout California and in Alameda County. > > > > > > > > VENUE > > > > 4. Venue is proper in Alameda County because liability arises in > > part in Alameda County, where the National Federation of the Blind of > > California has its headquarters. LSAC has been and is committing the > acts > > alleged herein in Alameda County, has been and is violating the rights > > of > > patrons in Alameda County, and has been and is causing injury to patrons > in > > Alameda County. > > > > 5. Plaintiff Goraya is a California citizen and has experienced > > injury in California as a result of LSAC's inaccessible website and > practice > > materials. > > > > PARTIES > > > > 6. Plaintiff the National Federation of the Blind (hereafter > "NFB") > > is a national advocacy organization. The NFB, the oldest and largest > > national organization of blind persons, is a non-profit corporation duly > > organized under the laws of the District of Columbia with its principal > > place of business in Baltimore, Maryland. It has affiliates in all 50 > > states (including California) as well as Washington, D.C. and Puerto > Rico. > > The vast majority of the approximately 50,000 members are blind > > persons. > > The NFB is widely recognized by the public, Congress, executive > > agencies > of > > government and the courts as a collective and representative voice on > behalf > > of blind Americans and their families. The purpose of the NFB is to > promote > > the general welfare of the blind by (1) assisting the blind in their > efforts > > to integrate themselves into society on terms of equality and (2) > removing > > barriers and changing social attitudes, stereotypes and mistaken beliefs > > that sighted and blind persons hold concerning the limitations created > > by > > blindness resulting in the denial of opportunity to blind persons in > > virtually every sphere of life. The NFB and many of its members have > long > > been actively involved in promoting adaptive technology for the blind, > > so > > that blind persons can live and work independently in today's > > technology-dependent world. NFB members reside throughout the United > > States, including the state of California, and many of its members would > use > > the services of lsac.org if this website is made independently usable by > > the blind. > > > > 7. Plaintiff the National Federation of the Blind of California > > (hereafter "NFB of California") is a state affiliate of the National > > Federation of the Blind. NFB of California is a California corporation > and > > carries out NFB's objectives at the state level. It has local chapters > > throughout California, including Alameda County, and has its > > headquarters > in > > Fremont, California, in Alameda County. > > > > 8. Plaintiff Goraya is a member of the NFB and the NFB of > > California. She is blind and has been denied full and equal access to > the > > accommodations, advantages, facilities and privileges of lsac.org. > > > > 9. Defendant LSAC, is a non-profit corporation > > established to coordinate, facilitate, and enhance the law school > admissions > > process. LSAC owns, operates and/or maintains the website lsac.com, a > > public accommodation. Plaintiffs seek access to the services provided > > by > > LSAC in California through lsac.org. > > > > FACTS > > > > 10. Lsac.org is owned, controlled and/or operated by LSAC. > Lsac.org > > is a public accommodation that offers its visitors comprehensive > > services > > for applying to law school. The website functions as the official > > destination for guiding prospective law school applicants through the > > fundamental steps of applying to law school. Among its services, > lsac.orgoffers information about the LSAT and law school application > process, and > > extensive LSAT preparation materials and resources. Lsac.org also > > serves > as > > the exclusive online means for registering for the LSAT and applying to > > ABA-accredited law schools. > > > > 11. According to the website, lsac.org's online services enable > > prospective law students to do the following, among other things: > > > > a.. Register for the LSAT > > b.. Register for the LSDAS (Law School Data Assembly Service) > > c.. Purchase publications and test preparation materials > > d.. Have access to electronic applications for all ABA-approved law > > schools > > e.. Apply online to law schools > > f.. Register for law school forums > > g.. Have 24-hour file access > > 12. In addition to facilitating the LSAT and law school application > > processes, a significant portion of the lsac.org website is devoted to > > preparing students to take the LSAT. Among the services offered in that > > regard are online information guides that explain how to prepare for the > > LSAT and free, downloadable sample practice tests and test questions. > > Lsac.org also offers for a fee an online LSAT practice test tool and > > the > > opportunity to purchase more than 40 official LSAT practice tests. > > > > 13. While sighted visitors to lsac.org can easily obtain the benefits > and > > advantages offered by the website, blind individuals, including Ms. > Goraya, > > have been and are being denied access to lsac.org due to LSAC's failure > > and refusal to remove access barriers to lsac.org. Specifically, blind > > visitors to the website, including Ms. Goraya, cannot independently > > apply > to > > law school, register for the LSAT, or obtain in an accessible format the > > LSAT preparation materials and practice tests available through lsac.org > . > > > > 14. The blind access websites by using keyboards in conjunction > with > > screen-reading software. This software vocalizes or conveys to a > refreshable > > Braille display information that appears visually on a computer screen. > > Unless websites are designed to allow for use in this manner, blind > persons > > are unable to fully access the internet websites and the information, > > products and services contained therein. > > > > 15. There are well-established guidelines for making websites > > accessible to the blind. These guidelines have been in place for at > least > > several years and have been followed successfully by other public > > accommodations in making their online services accessible. The Web > > Accessibility Initiative (WAI), a project of the World Wide Web > Consortium, > > which is the leading standards organization for the Web, has developed > > guidelines for making information that is reached via the internet > > accessible. The federal government has also promulgated accessibility > > standards under Section 508 of the Rehabilitation Act. These guidelines > > have long been readily available via the internet so that any public > > accommodation could easily secure the necessary information. > > > > 16. Lsac.org contains a variety of access barriers that prevent > free > > and full use by blind persons using keyboards and screen reading > software. > > These barriers include but are not limited to: lack of or improperly > > labeled form controls; faulty keyboard navigation; and use of tables and > > charts that are not formatted for accessibility. Form controls allow > users > > to input data on online forms and applications. These controls must be > > coded and labeled to allow screen-access software to detect and vocalize > the > > requested information. Keyboard navigation refers to the ability to > > successfully navigate a website using keyboard commands, as opposed to > > requiring a mouse as the exclusive means for navigation of the site. > > Further, charts and tables must be formatted to work with screen-access > > software. Much of the lsac.org website, and in particular the online > law > > school application and LSAT registration sections of the website, lack > these > > fundamental accessibility components. As a result, blind visitors to > > the > > website cannot independently use those and other critical features. > > > > 17. Lsac.org's test preparation materials that are available on > > the > > website in Adobe Portable Document (PDF) format, are not properly > "tagged." > > This means that the headings, paragraphs, tables, image descriptions > > and > > form controls are not easily discernable to screen-reading software. As > a > > result, these materials are cumbersome, if not impossible, for a blind > > visitor to navigate. > > > > 18. Finally, lsac.org fails to offer LSAT practice tests, > available > > as part of its test preparation services, in formats accessible to the > > blind. While the sighted can easily use the website to obtain more than > 40 > > formerly administered LSAT practice tests, the website fails to offer > > the > > opportunity to purchase these practice materials in formats accessible > > to > > the blind, such as Braille or an accessible electronic format. > > > > 19. As a result of lsac.org's accessibility barriers, blind law > > school applicants, including Ms. Goraya, must go over extraordinary > hurdles > > to register and prepare for the LSAT and to apply to law school compared > to > > their sighted counterparts. After unsuccessfully attempting to use > > lsac.org independently to register for the LSAT and fill out her law > > school applications, for example, Plaintiff Goraya was forced to select > and > > rely upon a reader for over 50 hours simply to read aloud the content of > the > > website and complete her law school applications. Moreover, none of the > > LSAT practice materials, which include previously administered versions > of > > the test, were available to her in accessible electronic formats. > Lsac.org > > thus contains numerous access barriers which deny full and equal access > to > > Plaintiff, who would otherwise use the accommodations, advantages, and > > facilities of lsac.org. > > > > 20. On December 10, 2008, Plaintiff National Federation of the > Blind > > notified LSAC of the unlawful accessibility barriers on its website. > LSAC > > responded by setting up and then canceling a meeting with the NFB. On > > January 22, 2009, the NFB notified LSAC that it intended to pursue legal > > action against LSAC for the unlawful barriers on its website. > > > > FIRST CAUSE OF ACTION > > > > (Violation of Cal. Civ. Code §§ 54, et seq. - the Disabled Persons Act) > > > > 21. The allegations contained in the previous paragraphs are > > incorporated by reference. > > > > 22. The Disabled Persons Act ("DPA") requires that individuals > > with > > disabilities have "full and equal access, as other members of the > > general > > public, to accommodations, advantages, facilities, . . . and other > > places > to > > which the general public is invited, subject only to the conditions and > > limitations established by law, or state or federal regulation, and > > applicable alike to all persons." Cal. Civ. Code 54.1(a)(1). > > > > 23. Lsac.org, which is owned, operated and/or maintained by LSAC, > is > > an > > > > accommodation, advantage, facility and/or place to which the general > public > > is invited, as those terms are used in Cal. Civ. Code § 54.1(a)(1). > > > > 24. Defendant's conduct alleged herein violates the DPA, including > > Cal. Civ. Code § 54.1(a)(1), by denying the Plaintiffs full and equal > access > > to the accommodations, advantages and facilities of lsac.org. > > > > 25. As a result of Defendant's conduct, the NFB, the NFB of > > California, and Ms. Goraya are entitled to injunctive relief requiring > > Defendant to make lsac.org accessible to blind individuals, and to make > > the LSAT test practice materials offered to lsac.org patrons available > to > > blind people in an accessible format. > > > > SECOND CAUSE OF ACTION > > > > (Violation of Cal.Civ. Code §§ 51, et seq. - The Unruh Act) > > > > 26. The allegations contained in the previous paragraphs are > > incorporated by reference. > > > > 27. California's Unruh Act requires that individuals with > > disabilities have "full and equal accommodations, advantages, > > facilities, > > privileges or services in all business establishments of every kind > > whatsoever." Cal. Civ. Code § 51(b). > > > > 28. LSAC and Lsac.org are business establishments as that term is > > used in Cal. Civ. Code § 51(b) and lsac.org is an accommodation, > > advantage, facility, privilege and service of LSAC. > > > > 29. Defendant's conduct alleged herein violates the Unruh Act, > > including Cal. Civ. Code § 51(b), by denying Plaintiffs the full and > equal > > accommodations, advantages, facilities, privileges or services of LSAC > and > > lsac.org. > > > > 30. Defendant violated the Unruh Act intentionally and/or with > > deliberate indifference to the likelihood that it was violating the > rights > > of blind people and/or Defendant's violations were so intuitive or > obvious > > that noncompliance could not be other than intentional. > > > > 31. As a result of Defendant's conduct, the NFB, the NFB of > > California, and Ms. Goraya are entitled to injunctive relief requiring > > Defendant to make lsac.org accessible to blind individuals, and to make > > the LSAT test practice materials offered to lsac.org patrons available > to > > blind people in an accessible format. > > > > > > > > THIRD CAUSE OF ACTION > > > > (Declaratory Relief, Cal. Civ. Proc. § 1060 ) > > > > 32. The allegations contained in the previous paragraphs are > > incorporated by reference. > > > > 33. On information and belief, Defendants contend that they may > > lawfully deny Plaintiffs access to their website and its contents. > > Plaintiffs contend that lsac.org, which LSAC owns, operates, and/or > > controls, must provide blind patrons access to its website and website > > contents under California Civil Code §§ 54, et seq. and California Civil > > Code §§ 51, et seq., which prohibit discrimination against the blind. > > > > 34. A judicial declaration is necessary and appropriate at this > time > > in order that each of the parties may know their respective rights and > > duties and act accordingly. > > > > WHEREFORE, Plaintiffs request relief as set forth below. > > > > RELIEF REQUESTED > > > > WHEREFORE, Plaintiffs pray for judgment as follows: > > > > 1. An order enjoining LSAC from violating California > > Civil Code §§ 51, et seq. and §§ 54, et seq.; > > > > 2. A declaration that LSAC is owning, maintaining > and/or > > operating lsac.org in a manner which discriminates against the blind and > > which fails to provide access for persons with disabilities as required > by > > law; > > > > 3. Plaintiffs' reasonable attorneys' fees and costs > > as > > authorized by California California Civil Code §§ 54, et seq., > > California > > Civil Code §§ 51, et seq., and pursuant to California Code of Civil > > Procedure § 1021.5. > > > > 4. Such other and further relief as the Court deems > just > > and proper. > > > > > > > > DATED: > > DISABILITY RIGHTS ADVOCATES > > > > > > > > > By: > > ____________________________ > > > > > > Laurence W. Paradis > > > > > > > > > > > > Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. > > > > LaBarre Law Offices P.C. > > 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 > > Denver, Colorado 80222 > > 303 504-5979 (voice) > > 303 757-3640 (fax) > > slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) > > www.labarrelaw.com (website) > > > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and > > privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may > not > > read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this > message > > in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or > > slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. > This > > message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic > > Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. > > _______________________________________________ > > blindlaw mailing list > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > blindlaw: > > > > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b75205%40gmail.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/bspiry%40comcast.n > et > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b75205%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail.com From b75205 at gmail.com Tue Mar 10 18:45:10 2009 From: b75205 at gmail.com (James Pepper) Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 13:45:10 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. lsac complaint In-Reply-To: References: <001401c9a189$3fa59ee0$bef0dca0$@net> Message-ID: Well no wonder nothing becomes accessible. Stay with public domain documents then. Oh well. James On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 12:56 PM, Rod Alcidonis wrote: > You are also violating copyright laws whether you send it to Scott or bill, > so you know. > > Rod Alcidonis > Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009. > Roger Williams University School of Law > 10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 > Bristol, RI 02809 > Cell: 718-704-4651 > Home: 401-824-8685 > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Pepper" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 1:42 PM > > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. lsac complaint > > > Well Bill the content is copyrighted by LSAC so I am not sure I can send > this to you. Perhaps some on this list can give that advice. I laid it out > properly. > > James > > On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 9:05 AM, Bill Spiry wrote: > > I would appreciate receiving this as well. Thanks. >> bspiry at comcast.net >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf Of James Pepper >> Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 1:46 AM >> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. lsac complaint >> >> Scott: I laid out the first section of the LSAT to be accessible and I >> can >> send you the files if you would like to see it. Also I made the form that >> they use accessible so the blind can fill out the test without assistance. >> This works with JAWS and Window Eyes and a combination of Adobe's Read out >> Loud and Microsoft Narrator. My process works and if you need references >> at >> NFB, AFB and the AAPD I can send them to you. >> >> It took a while to figure out how they made thier pdfs and I know where >> they >> are making their mistakes. I can correct this problem. These PDFs are >> made >> to work natively with JAWS and Adobe Reader and the other screen readers >> without making any adjustments. They work with the default settings in >> Adobe Reader. >> >> Also the forms can be digitally signed and saved and all that fancy stuff >> that you expect with Adobe Acrobat Professional can be done with >> Adobe Reader, versions 8 or 9 which is the free download from Adobe.com. >> So >> we can make the LSAT accessible to anyone with a PC running Windows XP Or >> VIsta without any change of settings. This means the PC can be there for >> the sighted and the blind, with equal access for all. >> >> Also since I labeled everything, it will be a lot quicker for you to fill >> out this test! >> >> Sincerely, >> >> James G. Pepper >> >> >> >> On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 4:32 PM, Scott C. LaBarre >> wrote: >> >> > Below I am sharing the complaint that we filed today in California > >> Court. >> > ************** >> > LaurEnce W. paradis (California Bar No. 122336) >> > >> > Anna levine (California Bar No. 227881) >> > >> > Disability Rights Advocates >> > >> > 2001 Center Street, Third Floor >> > >> > Berkeley, California 94704 >> > >> > Telephone: (510) 665-8644 >> > >> > Facsimile: (510) 665-8511 >> > >> > TTY: (510) 665-8716 >> > >> > >> > >> > SCOTT LABARRE (to seek pro hac vice admission) >> > >> > LABARRE LAW OFFICES, P.C. >> > >> > 1660 S. Albion Street, Ste 918 >> > >> > Denver, Colo 80222 >> > >> > Telephone: (303) 504-5979 >> > >> > Fax: (303) 757-3640 >> > >> > >> > >> > DANIEL F. GOLDSTEIN (to seek pro hac vice admission) >> > >> > MEHGAN Sidhu (to seek pro hac vice admission) >> > >> > Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP >> > >> > 120 E. Baltimore St., Suite 1700 >> > >> > Baltimore, MD 21202 >> > >> > Telephone: (410) 962-1030 >> > >> > Fax: (410) 385-0869 >> > >> > >> > >> > SUPERIOR COURT OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA >> > COUNTY OF ALAMEDA >> > >> > >> > >> > National Federation of the Blind, the National Federation of the >> Blind >> > of CALIFORNIA, and DEEPA GORAYA, >> > >> > >> > >> > Plaintiffs, >> > >> > v. >> > >> > LAW SCHOOL ADMISSION COUNCIL, INC., >> > >> > Defendant. >> > >> > >> > >> > Case No.: >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > COMPLAINT FOR INJUNCTIVE AND DECLARATORY RELIEF FOR VIOLATIONS OF >> THE >> > CALIFORNIA DISABLED PERSONS ACT AND UNRUH CIVIL RIGHTS ACT >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > INTRODUCTION >> > >> > Plaintiffs complain of Defendant and allege herein as follows: >> > >> > 1. This action, brought by the National Federation of the Blind, >> > the National Federation of the Blind of California, and Deepa Goraya, >> seeks >> > to put an end to civil rights violations committed by defendant Law >> School >> > Admissions Council (hereafter "LSAC") against blind persons seeking to >> take >> > the LSAT exam and apply to law schools. Plaintiff Deepa Goraya, a blind >> law >> > school applicant in California, has been and is being denied equal > >> access >> to >> > the accommodations, advantages, and facilities LSAC provides its >> > non-disabled customers through http://www.lsac.org (hereafter "lsac.org >> " >> > and "the website"). Plaintiffs National Federation of the Blind and the >> > National Federation of the Blind of California have members who are >> > similarly denied full and equal access to such accommodations, > >> advantages >> > and facilities. Lsac.org is currently the only place online where >> > prospective law students can register for the Law School Admissions Test >> > ("LSAT"), apply to law schools, and obtain official LSAT test > >> preparation >> > materials and information. Lsac.org contains multiple access barriers >> that >> > make it difficult if not impossible for blind law school applicants and >> LSAT >> > test takers to use the website and to obtain practice materials without >> > sighted assistance. LSAC thus excludes the blind, including Ms. Goraya, >> > from full and equal access to the accommodations, advantages, > >> facilities, >> > and privileges of lsac.org. >> > >> > JURISDICTION >> > >> > 2. This is a civil action under California's Disabled Persons > >> Act >> > (Cal. Civ. Code §§ 54, et seq.) and the Unruh Civil Rights Act (Cal. > >> Civ. >> > Code §§ 51, et seq.) and for declaratory relief. This Court has >> > jurisdiction over the claims alleged herein pursuant to California Civil >> > Code §§ 54, et seq. and California Civil Code §§ 51, et seq. and >> California >> > Code of Civil Procedure section 1060. >> > >> > 3. This Court has jurisdiction over LSAC because LSAC is a >> > corporation authorized to do business in California and LSAC conducts >> > substantial business in California. LSAC owns, maintains and operates > >> its >> > website, lsac.org, throughout California and in Alameda County. >> > >> > >> > >> > VENUE >> > >> > 4. Venue is proper in Alameda County because liability arises in >> > part in Alameda County, where the National Federation of the Blind of >> > California has its headquarters. LSAC has been and is committing the >> acts >> > alleged herein in Alameda County, has been and is violating the rights > >> of >> > patrons in Alameda County, and has been and is causing injury to patrons >> in >> > Alameda County. >> > >> > 5. Plaintiff Goraya is a California citizen and has experienced >> > injury in California as a result of LSAC's inaccessible website and >> practice >> > materials. >> > >> > PARTIES >> > >> > 6. Plaintiff the National Federation of the Blind (hereafter >> "NFB") >> > is a national advocacy organization. The NFB, the oldest and largest >> > national organization of blind persons, is a non-profit corporation duly >> > organized under the laws of the District of Columbia with its principal >> > place of business in Baltimore, Maryland. It has affiliates in all 50 >> > states (including California) as well as Washington, D.C. and Puerto >> Rico. >> > The vast majority of the approximately 50,000 members are blind > >> persons. >> > The NFB is widely recognized by the public, Congress, executive > >> agencies >> of >> > government and the courts as a collective and representative voice on >> behalf >> > of blind Americans and their families. The purpose of the NFB is to >> promote >> > the general welfare of the blind by (1) assisting the blind in their >> efforts >> > to integrate themselves into society on terms of equality and (2) >> removing >> > barriers and changing social attitudes, stereotypes and mistaken beliefs >> > that sighted and blind persons hold concerning the limitations created > >> by >> > blindness resulting in the denial of opportunity to blind persons in >> > virtually every sphere of life. The NFB and many of its members have >> long >> > been actively involved in promoting adaptive technology for the blind, > >> so >> > that blind persons can live and work independently in today's >> > technology-dependent world. NFB members reside throughout the United >> > States, including the state of California, and many of its members would >> use >> > the services of lsac.org if this website is made independently usable >> by >> > the blind. >> > >> > 7. Plaintiff the National Federation of the Blind of California >> > (hereafter "NFB of California") is a state affiliate of the National >> > Federation of the Blind. NFB of California is a California corporation >> and >> > carries out NFB's objectives at the state level. It has local chapters >> > throughout California, including Alameda County, and has its > >> headquarters >> in >> > Fremont, California, in Alameda County. >> > >> > 8. Plaintiff Goraya is a member of the NFB and the NFB of >> > California. She is blind and has been denied full and equal access to >> the >> > accommodations, advantages, facilities and privileges of lsac.org. >> > >> > 9. Defendant LSAC, is a non-profit corporation >> > established to coordinate, facilitate, and enhance the law school >> admissions >> > process. LSAC owns, operates and/or maintains the website lsac.com, a >> > public accommodation. Plaintiffs seek access to the services provided > >> by >> > LSAC in California through lsac.org. >> > >> > FACTS >> > >> > 10. Lsac.org is owned, controlled and/or operated by LSAC. >> Lsac.org >> > is a public accommodation that offers its visitors comprehensive > >> services >> > for applying to law school. The website functions as the official >> > destination for guiding prospective law school applicants through the >> > fundamental steps of applying to law school. Among its services, >> lsac.orgoffers information about the LSAT and law school application >> process, and >> > extensive LSAT preparation materials and resources. Lsac.org also > >> serves >> as >> > the exclusive online means for registering for the LSAT and applying to >> > ABA-accredited law schools. >> > >> > 11. According to the website, lsac.org's online services enable >> > prospective law students to do the following, among other things: >> > >> > a.. Register for the LSAT >> > b.. Register for the LSDAS (Law School Data Assembly Service) >> > c.. Purchase publications and test preparation materials >> > d.. Have access to electronic applications for all ABA-approved law >> > schools >> > e.. Apply online to law schools >> > f.. Register for law school forums >> > g.. Have 24-hour file access >> > 12. In addition to facilitating the LSAT and law school application >> > processes, a significant portion of the lsac.org website is devoted to >> > preparing students to take the LSAT. Among the services offered in that >> > regard are online information guides that explain how to prepare for the >> > LSAT and free, downloadable sample practice tests and test questions. >> > Lsac.org also offers for a fee an online LSAT practice test tool and > >> the >> > opportunity to purchase more than 40 official LSAT practice tests. >> > >> > 13. While sighted visitors to lsac.org can easily obtain the benefits >> and >> > advantages offered by the website, blind individuals, including Ms. >> Goraya, >> > have been and are being denied access to lsac.org due to LSAC's failure >> > and refusal to remove access barriers to lsac.org. Specifically, blind >> > visitors to the website, including Ms. Goraya, cannot independently > >> apply >> to >> > law school, register for the LSAT, or obtain in an accessible format the >> > LSAT preparation materials and practice tests available through >> lsac.org >> . >> > >> > 14. The blind access websites by using keyboards in conjunction >> with >> > screen-reading software. This software vocalizes or conveys to a >> refreshable >> > Braille display information that appears visually on a computer screen. >> > Unless websites are designed to allow for use in this manner, blind >> persons >> > are unable to fully access the internet websites and the information, >> > products and services contained therein. >> > >> > 15. There are well-established guidelines for making websites >> > accessible to the blind. These guidelines have been in place for at >> least >> > several years and have been followed successfully by other public >> > accommodations in making their online services accessible. The Web >> > Accessibility Initiative (WAI), a project of the World Wide Web >> Consortium, >> > which is the leading standards organization for the Web, has developed >> > guidelines for making information that is reached via the internet >> > accessible. The federal government has also promulgated accessibility >> > standards under Section 508 of the Rehabilitation Act. These guidelines >> > have long been readily available via the internet so that any public >> > accommodation could easily secure the necessary information. >> > >> > 16. Lsac.org contains a variety of access barriers that prevent >> free >> > and full use by blind persons using keyboards and screen reading >> software. >> > These barriers include but are not limited to: lack of or improperly >> > labeled form controls; faulty keyboard navigation; and use of tables and >> > charts that are not formatted for accessibility. Form controls allow >> users >> > to input data on online forms and applications. These controls must be >> > coded and labeled to allow screen-access software to detect and vocalize >> the >> > requested information. Keyboard navigation refers to the ability to >> > successfully navigate a website using keyboard commands, as opposed to >> > requiring a mouse as the exclusive means for navigation of the site. >> > Further, charts and tables must be formatted to work with screen-access >> > software. Much of the lsac.org website, and in particular the online >> law >> > school application and LSAT registration sections of the website, lack >> these >> > fundamental accessibility components. As a result, blind visitors to > >> the >> > website cannot independently use those and other critical features. >> > >> > 17. Lsac.org's test preparation materials that are available on > >> the >> > website in Adobe Portable Document (PDF) format, are not properly >> "tagged." >> > This means that the headings, paragraphs, tables, image descriptions > >> and >> > form controls are not easily discernable to screen-reading software. As >> a >> > result, these materials are cumbersome, if not impossible, for a blind >> > visitor to navigate. >> > >> > 18. Finally, lsac.org fails to offer LSAT practice tests, >> available >> > as part of its test preparation services, in formats accessible to the >> > blind. While the sighted can easily use the website to obtain more than >> 40 >> > formerly administered LSAT practice tests, the website fails to offer > >> the >> > opportunity to purchase these practice materials in formats accessible > >> to >> > the blind, such as Braille or an accessible electronic format. >> > >> > 19. As a result of lsac.org's accessibility barriers, blind law >> > school applicants, including Ms. Goraya, must go over extraordinary >> hurdles >> > to register and prepare for the LSAT and to apply to law school compared >> to >> > their sighted counterparts. After unsuccessfully attempting to use >> > lsac.org independently to register for the LSAT and fill out her law >> > school applications, for example, Plaintiff Goraya was forced to select >> and >> > rely upon a reader for over 50 hours simply to read aloud the content of >> the >> > website and complete her law school applications. Moreover, none of the >> > LSAT practice materials, which include previously administered versions >> of >> > the test, were available to her in accessible electronic formats. >> Lsac.org >> > thus contains numerous access barriers which deny full and equal access >> to >> > Plaintiff, who would otherwise use the accommodations, advantages, and >> > facilities of lsac.org. >> > >> > 20. On December 10, 2008, Plaintiff National Federation of the >> Blind >> > notified LSAC of the unlawful accessibility barriers on its website. >> LSAC >> > responded by setting up and then canceling a meeting with the NFB. On >> > January 22, 2009, the NFB notified LSAC that it intended to pursue legal >> > action against LSAC for the unlawful barriers on its website. >> > >> > FIRST CAUSE OF ACTION >> > >> > (Violation of Cal. Civ. Code §§ 54, et seq. - the Disabled Persons Act) >> > >> > 21. The allegations contained in the previous paragraphs are >> > incorporated by reference. >> > >> > 22. The Disabled Persons Act ("DPA") requires that individuals > >> with >> > disabilities have "full and equal access, as other members of the > >> general >> > public, to accommodations, advantages, facilities, . . . and other > >> places >> to >> > which the general public is invited, subject only to the conditions and >> > limitations established by law, or state or federal regulation, and >> > applicable alike to all persons." Cal. Civ. Code 54.1(a)(1). >> > >> > 23. Lsac.org, which is owned, operated and/or maintained by LSAC, >> is >> > an >> > >> > accommodation, advantage, facility and/or place to which the general >> public >> > is invited, as those terms are used in Cal. Civ. Code § 54.1(a)(1). >> > >> > 24. Defendant's conduct alleged herein violates the DPA, including >> > Cal. Civ. Code § 54.1(a)(1), by denying the Plaintiffs full and equal >> access >> > to the accommodations, advantages and facilities of lsac.org. >> > >> > 25. As a result of Defendant's conduct, the NFB, the NFB of >> > California, and Ms. Goraya are entitled to injunctive relief requiring >> > Defendant to make lsac.org accessible to blind individuals, and to make >> > the LSAT test practice materials offered to lsac.org patrons available >> to >> > blind people in an accessible format. >> > >> > SECOND CAUSE OF ACTION >> > >> > (Violation of Cal.Civ. Code §§ 51, et seq. - The Unruh Act) >> > >> > 26. The allegations contained in the previous paragraphs are >> > incorporated by reference. >> > >> > 27. California's Unruh Act requires that individuals with >> > disabilities have "full and equal accommodations, advantages, > >> facilities, >> > privileges or services in all business establishments of every kind >> > whatsoever." Cal. Civ. Code § 51(b). >> > >> > 28. LSAC and Lsac.org are business establishments as that term is >> > used in Cal. Civ. Code § 51(b) and lsac.org is an accommodation, >> > advantage, facility, privilege and service of LSAC. >> > >> > 29. Defendant's conduct alleged herein violates the Unruh Act, >> > including Cal. Civ. Code § 51(b), by denying Plaintiffs the full and >> equal >> > accommodations, advantages, facilities, privileges or services of LSAC >> and >> > lsac.org. >> > >> > 30. Defendant violated the Unruh Act intentionally and/or with >> > deliberate indifference to the likelihood that it was violating the >> rights >> > of blind people and/or Defendant's violations were so intuitive or >> obvious >> > that noncompliance could not be other than intentional. >> > >> > 31. As a result of Defendant's conduct, the NFB, the NFB of >> > California, and Ms. Goraya are entitled to injunctive relief requiring >> > Defendant to make lsac.org accessible to blind individuals, and to make >> > the LSAT test practice materials offered to lsac.org patrons available >> to >> > blind people in an accessible format. >> > >> > >> > >> > THIRD CAUSE OF ACTION >> > >> > (Declaratory Relief, Cal. Civ. Proc. § 1060 ) >> > >> > 32. The allegations contained in the previous paragraphs are >> > incorporated by reference. >> > >> > 33. On information and belief, Defendants contend that they may >> > lawfully deny Plaintiffs access to their website and its contents. >> > Plaintiffs contend that lsac.org, which LSAC owns, operates, and/or >> > controls, must provide blind patrons access to its website and website >> > contents under California Civil Code §§ 54, et seq. and California Civil >> > Code §§ 51, et seq., which prohibit discrimination against the blind. >> > >> > 34. A judicial declaration is necessary and appropriate at this >> time >> > in order that each of the parties may know their respective rights and >> > duties and act accordingly. >> > >> > WHEREFORE, Plaintiffs request relief as set forth below. >> > >> > RELIEF REQUESTED >> > >> > WHEREFORE, Plaintiffs pray for judgment as follows: >> > >> > 1. An order enjoining LSAC from violating California >> > Civil Code §§ 51, et seq. and §§ 54, et seq.; >> > >> > 2. A declaration that LSAC is owning, maintaining >> and/or >> > operating lsac.org in a manner which discriminates against the blind >> and >> > which fails to provide access for persons with disabilities as required >> by >> > law; >> > >> > 3. Plaintiffs' reasonable attorneys' fees and costs > >> as >> > authorized by California California Civil Code §§ 54, et seq., > >> California >> > Civil Code §§ 51, et seq., and pursuant to California Code of Civil >> > Procedure § 1021.5. >> > >> > 4. Such other and further relief as the Court deems >> just >> > and proper. >> > >> > >> > >> > DATED: >> > DISABILITY RIGHTS ADVOCATES >> > >> > >> > >> > >> By: >> > ____________________________ >> > >> > >> > Laurence W. Paradis >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. >> > >> > LaBarre Law Offices P.C. >> > 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 >> > Denver, Colorado 80222 >> > 303 504-5979 (voice) >> > 303 757-3640 (fax) >> > slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) >> > www.labarrelaw.com (website) >> > >> > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and >> > privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may >> not >> > read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this >> message >> > in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or >> > slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. >> This >> > message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic >> > Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. >> > _______________________________________________ >> > blindlaw mailing list >> > blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> > blindlaw: >> > >> > >> >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b75205%40gmail.com >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/bspiry%40comcast.n >> et >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b75205%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b75205%40gmail.com > From clucas at disabilitypride.com Tue Mar 10 19:58:10 2009 From: clucas at disabilitypride.com (Carrie Ann Lucas) Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 13:58:10 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target In-Reply-To: References: <001401c9a189$3fa59ee0$bef0dca0$@net> Message-ID: <4E8742A18776454A880746AD18B966F5@colorado0f48f8> I think the final fairness hearing was supposed to happen yesterday. Does anyone know if it happened, and if so, what were the results? Carrie Ann Lucas Director Center for Rights of Parents with Disabilities Colorado Cross-Disability Coalition 655 Broadway, Suite 775 Denver, CO 80203 303.839.1775 (main and messages) 303.839.0015 (direct and TTY) 303.839.1782 (facsimile) 800.817.1435 (main and messages) 877.267.1621 (direct and TTY) www.ccdconline.org From AZNOR99 at aol.com Wed Mar 11 02:24:16 2009 From: AZNOR99 at aol.com (AZNOR99 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 22:24:16 EDT Subject: [blindlaw] independent contractor? Message-ID: When I was in private practice, I had a network of attorneys I'd call if I needed one to appear due to a conflict. Many lawyers have such informal networks, but others hire that sort of work out. For example, I had a friend who hired a private contractor to appear for all status hearings. I would suggest you start by making a list of all the lawyers you know in your area of practice and then getting in touch with them to let them you're available for court appearances. I also want to suggest _www.lawcrossing.com_ (http://www.lawcrossing.com) . It's not free, but it is quite good. You can set it up so it sends you job opportunities every day. It works like a search engine for legal jobs, and its success rate is high. Finally, you may want to consider joining a firm as Of Counsel. This is a lot cheaper for the firm because they don't necessarily have to pay you benefits, and most pay hourly wages instead of a salary. It's also really handy when there are client conflicts, because the Chinese wall is a lot easier to maintain. And malpractice insurance is much cheaper for Of Counsels than for employees. Good luck. Ronza In a message dated 3/10/2009 3:38:25 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, ckrugman at sbcglobal.net writes: Here in California there are agencies that hire temporary attorneys. Additionally, locally I have seen several ads on Craigslist looking for stand-in attorneys for court appearances and the like. I would check such places as Craigslist under "legal jobs" as well as general bar associations as well as publications for specialized bar associations, e.g. trial lawyers or as we know it in California Consumer Lawyers. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Shaw" To: Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 12:45 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] independent contractor? hmmm potential business idea a "temp agency" for lawyers, assigning independent ontractorsfor such tasks.... > Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 09:32:07 -0700 > From: m_b_gilmore at yahoo.com > To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org > Subject: [blindlaw] independent contractor? > > I am a member of a listserv for contract attorneys. Most of the e-mails > from that listserv concern document review; however, I read one the other > day about licensed attorneys working as independent contractors. (Examples > of this would be taking a deposition for another attorney or doing legal > research for another attorney or handling a court case for an attorney who > needs the help.) > > Anyway, I was wondering if any of you out there in D.C. or Northern > Virginia have done independent contractor work. That option appeals to > me. (Taking depositions appeals to me but I don't know how familiar one > would need to be with the case or if one just asks the questions the > attorney supplies to him.) > > Thanks in advance for your help. > > Mike > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/timandvickie%40hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ Express your personality in color! Preview and select themes for Hotmail®. http://www.windowslive-hotmail.com/LearnMore/personalize.aspx?ocid=TXT_MSGTX_W L_HM_express_032009#colortheme _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal .net _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/aznor99%40aol.com **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1219671244x1201345076/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fwww.freecreditreport.com%2Fpm%2Fdefault.aspx%3Fsc%3D668072%26hmpgID %3D62%26bcd%3DfebemailfooterNO62) From slabarre at labarrelaw.com Tue Mar 10 22:35:26 2009 From: slabarre at labarrelaw.com (Scott C. LaBarre) Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 16:35:26 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target References: <001401c9a189$3fa59ee0$bef0dca0$@net> <4E8742A18776454A880746AD18B966F5@colorado0f48f8> Message-ID: <5F60EFF2D5FD48A6A428F280C2AE8727@labarre> Yes. It had been postponed and was rescheduled to yesterday. Our local counsel attended the hearing and this afternoon Judge Patel issued an order granting final approval of the settlement and dismissing the claims. The only remaining matter is that we are waiting for an opinion and ruling on attorneys fees. Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. LaBarre Law Offices P.C. 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 Denver, Colorado 80222 303 504-5979 (voice) 303 757-3640 (fax) slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) www.labarrelaw.com (website) CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carrie Ann Lucas" To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 1:58 PM Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target >I think the final fairness hearing was supposed to happen yesterday. Does > anyone know if it happened, and if so, what were the results? > > Carrie Ann Lucas > Director Center for Rights of Parents with Disabilities > Colorado Cross-Disability Coalition > 655 Broadway, Suite 775 > Denver, CO 80203 > 303.839.1775 (main and messages) > 303.839.0015 (direct and TTY) > 303.839.1782 (facsimile) > 800.817.1435 (main and messages) > 877.267.1621 (direct and TTY) > www.ccdconline.org > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/slabarre%40labarrelaw.com > From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Wed Mar 11 12:21:08 2009 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 05:21:08 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] comments needed regarding policy for audible pedestrian signals Message-ID: <46F35C9C59EA4BEA85A215EF8960813E@spike> The City of Fresno is proposing the policy shown below to evaluate the installation of audible traffic signals. As this is outside my expertise I would appreciate any comments regarding this document. Please feel free to contact me off list if needed. Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal 1237 P Street Fresno ca 93721 559-266-9237 APS Policy-03-09-LP .pdf DRAFT ACCESSIBLE PEDESTRIAN SIGNALS (APS) INTERSECTION EVALUATION PROCEDURE BACKGROUND Accessible Pedestrian Signals (APS), also known as audible pedestrian signals, are devices that communicate information about pedestrian timing in nonvisual format such as audible tones, verbal messages, and/or vibrating surfaces. APS are used in conjunction with standard pedestrian activated traffic signals to provide the following information to pedestrians: list of 4 items  Existence of and location of the pedestrian pushbutton  Beginning of the pedestrian WALK interval  Direction of the crosswalk and location of the destination curb  Clearance signal interval list end They are used to assist blind and visually impaired persons and other persons with disabilities of all ages to cross at designated streets and intersections. PURPOSE The purpose of this evaluation policy is to set forth factors to be used by the City of Fresno’s Public Works Department, in cooperation with the City of Fresno’s Disability Advisory Commission, in developing a priority listing of signalized intersection candidates to be retrofitted with audible devices that will provide guidance for the blind community and visually impaired persons and other persons with disabilities of all ages to cross certain streets. POLICY It is the policy of the City Council that the retrofitting of existing traffic signals with APS shall be based on factors established herein and that such measurements and computations as may be required in determining priority rating of candidate locations shall be the responsibility of the Public Works Department. It should be noted that in special situations, an APS should not be installed because of the adverse affect it could have on pedestrian safety as a result of the overall traffic circulation pattern of an area, or unusual geometric conditions where an APS would not provide the safety benefits necessary for the blind or visually impaired individuals to cross a street. It should also be noted that some traffic signals cannot be retrofitted with APS without major costly modifications. Retrofitting of traffic signals with APS shall be subject to approval by the City Engineer. Important: APS are utilized to help blind and visually impaired travelers recognize when a WALK signal is operating in a given direction. An APS may enhance the safety of blind travelers in two ways: list of 1 items 1. Lessens the chance of a blind or visually impaired pedestrian misjudging when the walk phase is operating, thereby lessening the chance of accidentally crossing against a signal. list end list of 1 items 2. Helps blind and visually impaired pedestrians recognize immediately when the walk phase begins, permitting them to cross the street in a timely fashion, thereby lessening the chance of being in the intersection when the signal changes. list end However, it is important to recognize that the APS does not and cannot assure the blind and visually impaired pedestrians that there will be no potential traffic conflicts while crossing when the APS is operating. In particular, the blind and visually impaired pedestrians should be aware of at least four possible conflicts. list of 4 items 1. Vehicles may be still clearing the intersection when the APS comes on. 2. Vehicles may fail to stop for the red light. This is particularly common for motorists attempting to enter on a yellow light. 3. Motorists may stop and make a right turn on red while watching traffic on their left but may fail to notice pedestrians on their right. 4. Vehicles may have right and left turns on the same phase as the pedestrian. list end Because of these potential conflicts, it is important that the blind or visually impaired traveler exercise due caution for his or her well-being when crossing a street, whether or not it is equipped with APS. It is especially important that blind and visually impaired travelers be properly trained by certified orientation and mobility specialists in safe travel techniques on the public right-of-way. EVALUATION PROCEDURE (See attached “Evaluation Form.”) The following basic considerations and evaluation factors shall be utilized to determine whether a location is eligible to be a candidate for APS and to determine its relative position on the priority list. Evaluation and scoring of factors will be conducted by an evaluation team consisting of a certified orientation-mobility specialist, a visually impaired/blind traveler and a traffic engineer. Candidate locations shall be requested by the City of Fresno Disability Advisory Commission, its working groups, and constituent requests to the ADA Coordinator’s office. Candidate locations will be evaluated by means of the sample evaluation sheet attached. I. BASIC CONSIDERATIONS: APS normally will be considered for installation only if the following conditions are met: list of 5 items A. Intersections must be signalized. B. Signals must be susceptible to retrofitting. C. Signals should be equipped with pedestrian signal actuations. (See also section on “Signals without Pedestrian Actuations.”) D. Location must be suitable to installation of audible signals, in terms of surrounding land use, noise level and neighborhood acceptance. E. There must be a demonstrated need for the audible signals in the form of a request from an individual or group that would use the audible signal. list end II EVALUATION FACTORS The following factors shall be used to establish a priority listing for potential audible traffic signal candidates. Candidates will be arranged in priority order of those with the highest total points (100 points maximum) on top and then in descending order. The scoring of factors will be conducted by an evaluation team consistent of a mobility specialist, a visually impaired/blind traveler and a traffic engineer. If the request for an APS was made by a deaf blind individual, or by representative of an organization serving deaf blind pedestrians in order to improve access in their geographic area, the evaluation team may also include a deaf blind rater. The decision whether to include a deaf blind rater will be made by the City Engineer. A) Intersection Safety 1. Accident Records: Past pedestrian accident experience at the intersection will be used as an indication of potential safety performance. Points will be based on pedestrian accidents reported by the City of Fresno’s Police Department. table with 3 columns and 6 rows Pedestrian Accidents Period Points 1 4 years 1 2 4 years 2 3 4 years 3 4 4 years 4 5 or more 4 years 5 table end 2. Intersection Configuration: The number of approaches to an intersection and their geometric configuration (offset, skewed, etc.) affect the ability of the blind and visually impaired persons crossing the roadway. In particular, traffic at 3-leg intersections tends not to provide adequate audible clues for the blind to permit them to effectively judge the signal phase. table with 2 columns and 6 rows Configuration Points 4-leg right angle intersection 1 3-leg T-intersection 2 3 or 4-leg skewed intersection 3 4-leg offset intersection 4 Other complex or multiple leg intersections 5 table end Note: Intersections with 5 or more legs will require special design. 3. Intersection Signalization: Pre-timed intersections are the easiest for blind pedestrian because the phase interval is constant and can be observed over time. Vehicle actuated intersections are more difficult, because the pedestrian interval may be of different lengths or skipped all together. Split-phasing can provide confusing auditory information, as a traveler may interpret left-turning vehicles as a parallel traffic surge. table with 2 columns and 5 rows Signalization Points Pre-timed 0 Vehicle Actuated 2 Split Phasing 4 Exclusive Ped Phase (for future reference) 5 table end 4. Width of Crossing: Wider streets are more difficult for blind travelers to cross. If each leg of the intersection has a different width, points will be assigned on the basis of the widest street on which pedestrians are permitted to cross. Crossing width will be measured at the point pedestrians normally cross the street. Islands and medians will be included in the total crossing distance even if they are equipped with separate pedestrian signal actuators. These points will be apportioned based upon the greatest width of the crossing at the subject intersection. table with 2 columns and 7 rows Width of Crossing Points 40 feet or less 0 40 to 59 feet 1 60 to 79 feet 2 80 to 99 feet 3 100 -119 4 120 feet or more 5 table end 5. Vehicle Speed: The speed of approaching traffic reflects the ability of approaching traffic to stop for a pedestrian clearing the intersection as the lights change. Audible signals help blind pedestrians get a timely start at the beginning of the walk phase, thereby permitting clearing the intersection in a timely manner. Points are assigned on the basis of the 85 percentile speed on the fastest approach leg. More points are assigned on the basis of higher speeds. table with 2 columns and 6 rows Speed Range Points 0 – 25 mph 1 26 – 30 mph 2 31 – 35 mph 3 36 – 40 mph 4 41 mph or over 5 table end B. Crosswalk Characteristics These points will be apportioned based upon the highest-scoring characteristics of any of the crosswalks at the intersection. For example, if any of the crosswalks at an intersection have a median island protruding into an intersection, then the intersection will receive the two points allotted for that characteristic. list of 1 items (a) Location of Pedestrian Push Button. Pedestrian push buttons that are too far from the intersection can present difficulties for blind pedestrians. They may make it harder for an individual to use the button as a cue for alignment and/or to push the button and cross in the same cycle. list end table with 2 columns and 4 rows Location of Pedestrian Actuations Points One or more ped pushbuttons located > 10 ft from curb 1 One or more ped pushbuttons located > 5 ft from crosswalk extended 2 One or more ped pushbuttons out of alignment with direction of travel 2 table end list of 1 items (b) Median Islands Blind pedestrians have difficulties interpreting traffic clues at medians and islands. Efforts should be made to permit the blind to cross in one continuous movement. In such cases, signal timing should be extended to accommodate the full crossing. Divided streets with or without a pedestrian signal actuator in the median will be handled as a single crossing, with the width measured across the entire street. list end table with 2 columns and 2 rows Median Island Points Protruding into crosswalk, or cut through. 2 table end list of 1 items (c) Alignment of Crosswalk. A skewed crosswalk is one in which the direction of travel on the crosswalk differs from that on the approaching sidewalk. In this context, skew is not defined as the angle at which streets intersect. If a blind pedestrian walking a straight line from the approaching sidewalk is headed toward parallel traffic lanes, the crosswalk is skewed. If the pedestrian would end up deviating from the crosswalk, but would still arrive at the opposite corner, the crosswalk is not defined as skewed for this purpose. list end Skewed Crosswalk 4 (d) Distance to Alternative APS table with 2 columns and 6 rows Distance to Alternative APS Crosswalk Points 1 block 0 2 blocks 0 3 blocks 2 4 blocks 2 5 or more blocks 3 table end (e) Requests for APS New requests for APS will be recorded by the ADA Coordinator. Requestors will be asked to specify the reason for the request (e.g. proximity on a route to school or work), the difficulty they encounter at the intersection, and the time of day that presents the greatest difficulty. This information may be used by the Orientation and Mobility Evaluation team in assessing the intersection. table with 2 columns and 4 rows APS Requests Points 1 request 1 2 recent documented requests 2 3 or more recent, documented requests 3-4 table end B) Pedestrian Usage Blind pedestrians share many characteristics with the sighted population in that they go to public places, business, social, educational and medical facilities. At the same time they have special needs. For example, they may have a greater reliance on public transportation than sighted persons. Audible signals should be placed with the view of improving mobility of blind persons and making more facilities accessible to them. Proximity of signals to these facilities may assure a greater degree of utilization. list of 1 items 1. Proximity to facilities for people who are blind or visually impaired: This includes the Department of Rehabilitation, Social Security offices, Valley Center for the Blind and other similar facilities. Special consideration may be given to senior citizens complexes or public housing facilities that have one or more blind or visually impaired persons in residence. Points are assigned on the basis of blocks or distance (1 block equals 400 feet) from proposed APS site to subject facility. The closer the two are, the more points are assigned. list end table with 2 columns and 6 rows Proximity Points 4 to 6 blocks 2 3 blocks 4 2 blocks 6 1 block 8 At subject facility 10 table end 2. Proximity to key facilities utilized by all pedestrians (blind and sighted.): This includes medical, educational, social, recreational, shopping, commercial, business, public and governmental facilities. Points are assigned on the basis of blocks or distance (1 block equals 400 feet) from proposed APS site to subject facility. In case of multiple facilities, points will be assigned on the basis of the closest facility. table with 2 columns and 6 rows Proximity Points 4 to 6 blocks 1 3 blocks 2 2 blocks 3 1 block 4 At subject facility 5 table end 3. Access to public transit: Because blind and visually impaired persons rely heavily upon public transportation (bus or trolley), special consideration will be given to those proposed APS sites that have heavy general use, serves any of the facilities indicated above (Ref. B-1 and B-2), or serves as a transfer point and serves 2 or more transit routes within a one-block walking distance. list of 1 items a) Number of transit stops and/or transit routes within one block of proposed audible signal site. list end table with 2 columns and 6 rows Number of Routes and Stops Points 1 – 2 routes and 1 stop 1 3 or more routes and 1 stop 2 1 – 2 routes and 2 stops 3 3 or more routes and 2 stops 4 2 or more routes and more than 2 stops 5 table end b) Passenger usage is based upon the total passengers boarding and debarking each day at a transit stop or transfer point within a one-block walking distance. table with 2 columns and 7 rows Passengers Boarding and Debarking Each Day Points 0 – 49 0 50-149 1 150-249 2 250-499 3 500-999 4 1,000 and over 5 table end C) Traffic Conditions Vehicle volumes, traffic distribution, traffic congestion and flow characteristics may assist or impede the blind traveler in crossing an intersection. Blind pedestrians can function best when crossing signalized intersections that are at right angles with a moderate but steady flow of traffic through the intersection on each leg and with a minimum of turning movements (right or left turns). Traffic that stops on each leg during each signal cycle is particularly helpful. Traffic that is either light, or very heavy, or erratic in its flow makes it difficult for the blind traveler to pick up audible clues as to whether the light is red or green. In such cases, audible signals will assist in determining when it is possible to cross the street. Points may be assigned by the evaluation team based upon their perception of the relative importance of each of these factors (which are not necessarily dependent upon the total average daily traffic). Candidate locations may score up to a maximum of 5 points for each of the following factors depending upon overall traffic distribution. table with 3 columns and 6 rows Heavy Traffic Flow Vehicles per hour Points Approach traffic on all legs is in excess of 2,000 vehicles per hour during any peak hour. 2,000 – 2,999 1 Approach traffic on all legs is in excess of 2,000 vehicles per hour during any peak hour. 3,000 – 3,999 2 Approach traffic on all legs is in excess of 2,000 vehicles per hour during any peak hour. 4,000 – 4,999 3 Approach traffic on all legs is in excess of 2,000 vehicles per hour during any peak hour. 5,000 – 5,999 4 Approach traffic on all legs is in excess of 2,000 vehicles per hour during any peak hour. 6,000 and over 5 table end table with 3 columns and 7 rows Off Peak Traffic Presence Direction 1 Points At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. Constant (≥ 90%) 0 At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. Heavy (70-80%) 1 At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. Moderate (50-60%) 2 At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. Light (30-40%) 3 At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. Occasional (<30%) 4 At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. None (no through lanes to create surge noise. 5 table end table with 3 columns and 7 rows Off Peak Traffic Presence Direction 2 Points At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. Constant (≥ 90%) 0 At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. Heavy (70-80%) 1 At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. Moderate (50-60%) 2 At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. Light (30-40%) 3 At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. Occasional (<30%) 4 At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. None (no through lanes to create surge noise. 5 table end E.) Mobility Evaluation Each intersection being considered for audible signals should be evaluated by a certified orientation and mobility specialist. Based on the judgment of the O-M specialist and the evaluation team, additional points may be assigned based on observed or special conditions not adequately covered by any of the previous factors. This may include a heavy right-turn volume, right-turn island, right-turn signals, limited cone of “visibility”, etc. Points Mobility and miscellaneous factors 0-15 Signals without Pedestrian Actuations Signalized intersections without pedestrian actuations may be considered for evaluation under this priority system, provided the following conditions are met: list of 3 items 1. There must be a demonstrated problem or need that can be alleviated by the installation of an audible signal in the form of a request from an individual or group that would use the audible signal. 2. The evaluation team must unanimously concur with the need. 3. Appropriate pedestrian actuation buttons and circuits must be provided as part of the APS installation. list end Accessible Signals at New Signal Installations Accessible signals will be considered for new signal installation if it is determined that installation is warranted by the criteria established above. Public Notice of Installation of Accessible Signals The City recognizes that the installation of an APS may be of interest to the community, especially residents in the immediate vicinity of the candidate intersection. In addition, research has indicated that APS are more effectively used by blind and visually impaired pedestrians if they have notice of its location and a basic understanding of the type of signal installed. Accordingly, the Director of Public Works will provide a notice to neighbors in a 350 feet radius from the intersection of the proposed installation of an APS at that site, and invite concerned citizens to contact him in writing. In addition, the Department of Public Works will issue press releases and informing the public and organizations serving people with disabilities, especially visual impairments, of type and location of proposed and installed APS. From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Wed Mar 11 13:00:00 2009 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 06:00:00 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. lsac complaint In-Reply-To: References: <001401c9a189$3fa59ee0$bef0dca0$@net> Message-ID: <0E0A546A5C8448378C8D855BF758CD0B@spike> we can always engage in acts of civil disobedience and disobey copyright laws. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Pepper" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 11:45 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. lsac complaint Well no wonder nothing becomes accessible. Stay with public domain documents then. Oh well. James On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 12:56 PM, Rod Alcidonis wrote: > You are also violating copyright laws whether you send it to Scott or > bill, > so you know. > > Rod Alcidonis > Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009. > Roger Williams University School of Law > 10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 > Bristol, RI 02809 > Cell: 718-704-4651 > Home: 401-824-8685 > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Pepper" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 1:42 PM > > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. lsac complaint > > > Well Bill the content is copyrighted by LSAC so I am not sure I can send > this to you. Perhaps some on this list can give that advice. I laid it out > properly. > > James > > On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 9:05 AM, Bill Spiry wrote: > > I would appreciate receiving this as well. Thanks. >> bspiry at comcast.net >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf Of James Pepper >> Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 1:46 AM >> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. lsac complaint >> >> Scott: I laid out the first section of the LSAT to be accessible and I >> can >> send you the files if you would like to see it. Also I made the form that >> they use accessible so the blind can fill out the test without >> assistance. >> This works with JAWS and Window Eyes and a combination of Adobe's Read >> out >> Loud and Microsoft Narrator. My process works and if you need references >> at >> NFB, AFB and the AAPD I can send them to you. >> >> It took a while to figure out how they made thier pdfs and I know where >> they >> are making their mistakes. I can correct this problem. These PDFs are >> made >> to work natively with JAWS and Adobe Reader and the other screen readers >> without making any adjustments. They work with the default settings in >> Adobe Reader. >> >> Also the forms can be digitally signed and saved and all that fancy stuff >> that you expect with Adobe Acrobat Professional can be done with >> Adobe Reader, versions 8 or 9 which is the free download from Adobe.com. >> So >> we can make the LSAT accessible to anyone with a PC running Windows XP Or >> VIsta without any change of settings. This means the PC can be there for >> the sighted and the blind, with equal access for all. >> >> Also since I labeled everything, it will be a lot quicker for you to fill >> out this test! >> >> Sincerely, >> >> James G. Pepper >> >> >> >> On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 4:32 PM, Scott C. LaBarre >> wrote: >> >> > Below I am sharing the complaint that we filed today in California > >> Court. >> > ************** >> > LaurEnce W. paradis (California Bar No. 122336) >> > >> > Anna levine (California Bar No. 227881) >> > >> > Disability Rights Advocates >> > >> > 2001 Center Street, Third Floor >> > >> > Berkeley, California 94704 >> > >> > Telephone: (510) 665-8644 >> > >> > Facsimile: (510) 665-8511 >> > >> > TTY: (510) 665-8716 >> > >> > >> > >> > SCOTT LABARRE (to seek pro hac vice admission) >> > >> > LABARRE LAW OFFICES, P.C. >> > >> > 1660 S. Albion Street, Ste 918 >> > >> > Denver, Colo 80222 >> > >> > Telephone: (303) 504-5979 >> > >> > Fax: (303) 757-3640 >> > >> > >> > >> > DANIEL F. GOLDSTEIN (to seek pro hac vice admission) >> > >> > MEHGAN Sidhu (to seek pro hac vice admission) >> > >> > Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP >> > >> > 120 E. Baltimore St., Suite 1700 >> > >> > Baltimore, MD 21202 >> > >> > Telephone: (410) 962-1030 >> > >> > Fax: (410) 385-0869 >> > >> > >> > >> > SUPERIOR COURT OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA >> > COUNTY OF ALAMEDA >> > >> > >> > >> > National Federation of the Blind, the National Federation of the >> Blind >> > of CALIFORNIA, and DEEPA GORAYA, >> > >> > >> > >> > Plaintiffs, >> > >> > v. >> > >> > LAW SCHOOL ADMISSION COUNCIL, INC., >> > >> > Defendant. >> > >> > >> > >> > Case No.: >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > COMPLAINT FOR INJUNCTIVE AND DECLARATORY RELIEF FOR VIOLATIONS OF >> THE >> > CALIFORNIA DISABLED PERSONS ACT AND UNRUH CIVIL RIGHTS ACT >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > INTRODUCTION >> > >> > Plaintiffs complain of Defendant and allege herein as follows: >> > >> > 1. This action, brought by the National Federation of the >> > Blind, >> > the National Federation of the Blind of California, and Deepa Goraya, >> seeks >> > to put an end to civil rights violations committed by defendant Law >> School >> > Admissions Council (hereafter "LSAC") against blind persons seeking to >> take >> > the LSAT exam and apply to law schools. Plaintiff Deepa Goraya, a >> > blind >> law >> > school applicant in California, has been and is being denied equal > >> access >> to >> > the accommodations, advantages, and facilities LSAC provides its >> > non-disabled customers through http://www.lsac.org (hereafter "lsac.org >> " >> > and "the website"). Plaintiffs National Federation of the Blind and >> > the >> > National Federation of the Blind of California have members who are >> > similarly denied full and equal access to such accommodations, > >> advantages >> > and facilities. Lsac.org is currently the only place online where >> > prospective law students can register for the Law School Admissions >> > Test >> > ("LSAT"), apply to law schools, and obtain official LSAT test > >> preparation >> > materials and information. Lsac.org contains multiple access barriers >> that >> > make it difficult if not impossible for blind law school applicants and >> LSAT >> > test takers to use the website and to obtain practice materials without >> > sighted assistance. LSAC thus excludes the blind, including Ms. >> > Goraya, >> > from full and equal access to the accommodations, advantages, > >> facilities, >> > and privileges of lsac.org. >> > >> > JURISDICTION >> > >> > 2. This is a civil action under California's Disabled Persons > >> Act >> > (Cal. Civ. Code §§ 54, et seq.) and the Unruh Civil Rights Act (Cal. > >> Civ. >> > Code §§ 51, et seq.) and for declaratory relief. This Court has >> > jurisdiction over the claims alleged herein pursuant to California >> > Civil >> > Code §§ 54, et seq. and California Civil Code §§ 51, et seq. and >> California >> > Code of Civil Procedure section 1060. >> > >> > 3. This Court has jurisdiction over LSAC because LSAC is a >> > corporation authorized to do business in California and LSAC conducts >> > substantial business in California. LSAC owns, maintains and operates > >> its >> > website, lsac.org, throughout California and in Alameda County. >> > >> > >> > >> > VENUE >> > >> > 4. Venue is proper in Alameda County because liability arises >> > in >> > part in Alameda County, where the National Federation of the Blind of >> > California has its headquarters. LSAC has been and is committing the >> acts >> > alleged herein in Alameda County, has been and is violating the rights >> > > >> of >> > patrons in Alameda County, and has been and is causing injury to >> > patrons >> in >> > Alameda County. >> > >> > 5. Plaintiff Goraya is a California citizen and has experienced >> > injury in California as a result of LSAC's inaccessible website and >> practice >> > materials. >> > >> > PARTIES >> > >> > 6. Plaintiff the National Federation of the Blind (hereafter >> "NFB") >> > is a national advocacy organization. The NFB, the oldest and largest >> > national organization of blind persons, is a non-profit corporation >> > duly >> > organized under the laws of the District of Columbia with its principal >> > place of business in Baltimore, Maryland. It has affiliates in all 50 >> > states (including California) as well as Washington, D.C. and Puerto >> Rico. >> > The vast majority of the approximately 50,000 members are blind > >> persons. >> > The NFB is widely recognized by the public, Congress, executive > >> agencies >> of >> > government and the courts as a collective and representative voice on >> behalf >> > of blind Americans and their families. The purpose of the NFB is to >> promote >> > the general welfare of the blind by (1) assisting the blind in their >> efforts >> > to integrate themselves into society on terms of equality and (2) >> removing >> > barriers and changing social attitudes, stereotypes and mistaken >> > beliefs >> > that sighted and blind persons hold concerning the limitations created >> > > >> by >> > blindness resulting in the denial of opportunity to blind persons in >> > virtually every sphere of life. The NFB and many of its members have >> long >> > been actively involved in promoting adaptive technology for the blind, >> > > >> so >> > that blind persons can live and work independently in today's >> > technology-dependent world. NFB members reside throughout the United >> > States, including the state of California, and many of its members >> > would >> use >> > the services of lsac.org if this website is made independently usable >> by >> > the blind. >> > >> > 7. Plaintiff the National Federation of the Blind of California >> > (hereafter "NFB of California") is a state affiliate of the National >> > Federation of the Blind. NFB of California is a California corporation >> and >> > carries out NFB's objectives at the state level. It has local chapters >> > throughout California, including Alameda County, and has its > >> headquarters >> in >> > Fremont, California, in Alameda County. >> > >> > 8. Plaintiff Goraya is a member of the NFB and the NFB of >> > California. She is blind and has been denied full and equal access to >> the >> > accommodations, advantages, facilities and privileges of lsac.org. >> > >> > 9. Defendant LSAC, is a non-profit corporation >> > established to coordinate, facilitate, and enhance the law school >> admissions >> > process. LSAC owns, operates and/or maintains the website lsac.com, a >> > public accommodation. Plaintiffs seek access to the services provided >> > > >> by >> > LSAC in California through lsac.org. >> > >> > FACTS >> > >> > 10. Lsac.org is owned, controlled and/or operated by LSAC. >> Lsac.org >> > is a public accommodation that offers its visitors comprehensive > >> services >> > for applying to law school. The website functions as the official >> > destination for guiding prospective law school applicants through the >> > fundamental steps of applying to law school. Among its services, >> lsac.orgoffers information about the LSAT and law school application >> process, and >> > extensive LSAT preparation materials and resources. Lsac.org also > >> serves >> as >> > the exclusive online means for registering for the LSAT and applying to >> > ABA-accredited law schools. >> > >> > 11. According to the website, lsac.org's online services enable >> > prospective law students to do the following, among other things: >> > >> > a.. Register for the LSAT >> > b.. Register for the LSDAS (Law School Data Assembly Service) >> > c.. Purchase publications and test preparation materials >> > d.. Have access to electronic applications for all ABA-approved law >> > schools >> > e.. Apply online to law schools >> > f.. Register for law school forums >> > g.. Have 24-hour file access >> > 12. In addition to facilitating the LSAT and law school application >> > processes, a significant portion of the lsac.org website is devoted to >> > preparing students to take the LSAT. Among the services offered in >> > that >> > regard are online information guides that explain how to prepare for >> > the >> > LSAT and free, downloadable sample practice tests and test questions. >> > Lsac.org also offers for a fee an online LSAT practice test tool and > >> the >> > opportunity to purchase more than 40 official LSAT practice tests. >> > >> > 13. While sighted visitors to lsac.org can easily obtain the benefits >> and >> > advantages offered by the website, blind individuals, including Ms. >> Goraya, >> > have been and are being denied access to lsac.org due to LSAC's failure >> > and refusal to remove access barriers to lsac.org. Specifically, blind >> > visitors to the website, including Ms. Goraya, cannot independently > >> apply >> to >> > law school, register for the LSAT, or obtain in an accessible format >> > the >> > LSAT preparation materials and practice tests available through >> lsac.org >> . >> > >> > 14. The blind access websites by using keyboards in conjunction >> with >> > screen-reading software. This software vocalizes or conveys to a >> refreshable >> > Braille display information that appears visually on a computer screen. >> > Unless websites are designed to allow for use in this manner, blind >> persons >> > are unable to fully access the internet websites and the information, >> > products and services contained therein. >> > >> > 15. There are well-established guidelines for making websites >> > accessible to the blind. These guidelines have been in place for at >> least >> > several years and have been followed successfully by other public >> > accommodations in making their online services accessible. The Web >> > Accessibility Initiative (WAI), a project of the World Wide Web >> Consortium, >> > which is the leading standards organization for the Web, has developed >> > guidelines for making information that is reached via the internet >> > accessible. The federal government has also promulgated accessibility >> > standards under Section 508 of the Rehabilitation Act. These >> > guidelines >> > have long been readily available via the internet so that any public >> > accommodation could easily secure the necessary information. >> > >> > 16. Lsac.org contains a variety of access barriers that prevent >> free >> > and full use by blind persons using keyboards and screen reading >> software. >> > These barriers include but are not limited to: lack of or improperly >> > labeled form controls; faulty keyboard navigation; and use of tables >> > and >> > charts that are not formatted for accessibility. Form controls allow >> users >> > to input data on online forms and applications. These controls must be >> > coded and labeled to allow screen-access software to detect and >> > vocalize >> the >> > requested information. Keyboard navigation refers to the ability to >> > successfully navigate a website using keyboard commands, as opposed to >> > requiring a mouse as the exclusive means for navigation of the site. >> > Further, charts and tables must be formatted to work with >> > screen-access >> > software. Much of the lsac.org website, and in particular the online >> law >> > school application and LSAT registration sections of the website, lack >> these >> > fundamental accessibility components. As a result, blind visitors to > >> the >> > website cannot independently use those and other critical features. >> > >> > 17. Lsac.org's test preparation materials that are available on > >> the >> > website in Adobe Portable Document (PDF) format, are not properly >> "tagged." >> > This means that the headings, paragraphs, tables, image descriptions > >> and >> > form controls are not easily discernable to screen-reading software. >> > As >> a >> > result, these materials are cumbersome, if not impossible, for a blind >> > visitor to navigate. >> > >> > 18. Finally, lsac.org fails to offer LSAT practice tests, >> available >> > as part of its test preparation services, in formats accessible to the >> > blind. While the sighted can easily use the website to obtain more >> > than >> 40 >> > formerly administered LSAT practice tests, the website fails to offer > >> the >> > opportunity to purchase these practice materials in formats accessible >> > > >> to >> > the blind, such as Braille or an accessible electronic format. >> > >> > 19. As a result of lsac.org's accessibility barriers, blind law >> > school applicants, including Ms. Goraya, must go over extraordinary >> hurdles >> > to register and prepare for the LSAT and to apply to law school >> > compared >> to >> > their sighted counterparts. After unsuccessfully attempting to use >> > lsac.org independently to register for the LSAT and fill out her law >> > school applications, for example, Plaintiff Goraya was forced to select >> and >> > rely upon a reader for over 50 hours simply to read aloud the content >> > of >> the >> > website and complete her law school applications. Moreover, none of >> > the >> > LSAT practice materials, which include previously administered versions >> of >> > the test, were available to her in accessible electronic formats. >> Lsac.org >> > thus contains numerous access barriers which deny full and equal access >> to >> > Plaintiff, who would otherwise use the accommodations, advantages, and >> > facilities of lsac.org. >> > >> > 20. On December 10, 2008, Plaintiff National Federation of the >> Blind >> > notified LSAC of the unlawful accessibility barriers on its website. >> LSAC >> > responded by setting up and then canceling a meeting with the NFB. On >> > January 22, 2009, the NFB notified LSAC that it intended to pursue >> > legal >> > action against LSAC for the unlawful barriers on its website. >> > >> > FIRST CAUSE OF ACTION >> > >> > (Violation of Cal. Civ. Code §§ 54, et seq. - the Disabled Persons Act) >> > >> > 21. The allegations contained in the previous paragraphs are >> > incorporated by reference. >> > >> > 22. The Disabled Persons Act ("DPA") requires that individuals > >> with >> > disabilities have "full and equal access, as other members of the > >> general >> > public, to accommodations, advantages, facilities, . . . and other > >> places >> to >> > which the general public is invited, subject only to the conditions and >> > limitations established by law, or state or federal regulation, and >> > applicable alike to all persons." Cal. Civ. Code 54.1(a)(1). >> > >> > 23. Lsac.org, which is owned, operated and/or maintained by LSAC, >> is >> > an >> > >> > accommodation, advantage, facility and/or place to which the general >> public >> > is invited, as those terms are used in Cal. Civ. Code § 54.1(a)(1). >> > >> > 24. Defendant's conduct alleged herein violates the DPA, >> > including >> > Cal. Civ. Code § 54.1(a)(1), by denying the Plaintiffs full and equal >> access >> > to the accommodations, advantages and facilities of lsac.org. >> > >> > 25. As a result of Defendant's conduct, the NFB, the NFB of >> > California, and Ms. Goraya are entitled to injunctive relief requiring >> > Defendant to make lsac.org accessible to blind individuals, and to make >> > the LSAT test practice materials offered to lsac.org patrons available >> to >> > blind people in an accessible format. >> > >> > SECOND CAUSE OF ACTION >> > >> > (Violation of Cal.Civ. Code §§ 51, et seq. - The Unruh Act) >> > >> > 26. The allegations contained in the previous paragraphs are >> > incorporated by reference. >> > >> > 27. California's Unruh Act requires that individuals with >> > disabilities have "full and equal accommodations, advantages, > >> facilities, >> > privileges or services in all business establishments of every kind >> > whatsoever." Cal. Civ. Code § 51(b). >> > >> > 28. LSAC and Lsac.org are business establishments as that term is >> > used in Cal. Civ. Code § 51(b) and lsac.org is an accommodation, >> > advantage, facility, privilege and service of LSAC. >> > >> > 29. Defendant's conduct alleged herein violates the Unruh Act, >> > including Cal. Civ. Code § 51(b), by denying Plaintiffs the full and >> equal >> > accommodations, advantages, facilities, privileges or services of LSAC >> and >> > lsac.org. >> > >> > 30. Defendant violated the Unruh Act intentionally and/or with >> > deliberate indifference to the likelihood that it was violating the >> rights >> > of blind people and/or Defendant's violations were so intuitive or >> obvious >> > that noncompliance could not be other than intentional. >> > >> > 31. As a result of Defendant's conduct, the NFB, the NFB of >> > California, and Ms. Goraya are entitled to injunctive relief requiring >> > Defendant to make lsac.org accessible to blind individuals, and to make >> > the LSAT test practice materials offered to lsac.org patrons available >> to >> > blind people in an accessible format. >> > >> > >> > >> > THIRD CAUSE OF ACTION >> > >> > (Declaratory Relief, Cal. Civ. Proc. § 1060 ) >> > >> > 32. The allegations contained in the previous paragraphs are >> > incorporated by reference. >> > >> > 33. On information and belief, Defendants contend that they may >> > lawfully deny Plaintiffs access to their website and its contents. >> > Plaintiffs contend that lsac.org, which LSAC owns, operates, and/or >> > controls, must provide blind patrons access to its website and website >> > contents under California Civil Code §§ 54, et seq. and California >> > Civil >> > Code §§ 51, et seq., which prohibit discrimination against the blind. >> > >> > 34. A judicial declaration is necessary and appropriate at this >> time >> > in order that each of the parties may know their respective rights and >> > duties and act accordingly. >> > >> > WHEREFORE, Plaintiffs request relief as set forth below. >> > >> > RELIEF REQUESTED >> > >> > WHEREFORE, Plaintiffs pray for judgment as follows: >> > >> > 1. An order enjoining LSAC from violating California >> > Civil Code §§ 51, et seq. and §§ 54, et seq.; >> > >> > 2. A declaration that LSAC is owning, maintaining >> and/or >> > operating lsac.org in a manner which discriminates against the blind >> and >> > which fails to provide access for persons with disabilities as required >> by >> > law; >> > >> > 3. Plaintiffs' reasonable attorneys' fees and costs >> > > >> as >> > authorized by California California Civil Code §§ 54, et seq., > >> California >> > Civil Code §§ 51, et seq., and pursuant to California Code of Civil >> > Procedure § 1021.5. >> > >> > 4. Such other and further relief as the Court deems >> just >> > and proper. >> > >> > >> > >> > DATED: >> > DISABILITY RIGHTS ADVOCATES >> > >> > >> > >> > >> By: >> > ____________________________ >> > >> > >> > Laurence W. Paradis >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. >> > >> > LaBarre Law Offices P.C. >> > 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 >> > Denver, Colorado 80222 >> > 303 504-5979 (voice) >> > 303 757-3640 (fax) >> > slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) >> > www.labarrelaw.com (website) >> > >> > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and >> > privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you >> > may >> not >> > read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this >> message >> > in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or >> > slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. >> This >> > message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic >> > Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. >> > _______________________________________________ >> > blindlaw mailing list >> > blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> > blindlaw: >> > >> > >> >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b75205%40gmail.com >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/bspiry%40comcast.n >> et >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b75205%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b75205%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net From Tim.Ford at cdph.ca.gov Wed Mar 11 14:31:54 2009 From: Tim.Ford at cdph.ca.gov (Ford, Tim (CDPH-OLS)) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 07:31:54 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target In-Reply-To: <5F60EFF2D5FD48A6A428F280C2AE8727@labarre> References: <001401c9a189$3fa59ee0$bef0dca0$@net><4E8742A18776454A880746AD18B966F5@colorado0f48f8> <5F60EFF2D5FD48A6A428F280C2AE8727@labarre> Message-ID: <839F18076C66C345BD1C0A4ACA67A1F60315B402@dhsexcmsg12.intra.dhs.ca.gov> Did they get a good response on people making claims? -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Scott C. LaBarre Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 3:35 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target Yes. It had been postponed and was rescheduled to yesterday. Our local counsel attended the hearing and this afternoon Judge Patel issued an order granting final approval of the settlement and dismissing the claims. The only remaining matter is that we are waiting for an opinion and ruling on attorneys fees. Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. LaBarre Law Offices P.C. 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 Denver, Colorado 80222 303 504-5979 (voice) 303 757-3640 (fax) slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) www.labarrelaw.com (website) CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carrie Ann Lucas" To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 1:58 PM Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target >I think the final fairness hearing was supposed to happen yesterday. >Does anyone know if it happened, and if so, what were the results? > > Carrie Ann Lucas > Director Center for Rights of Parents with Disabilities Colorado > Cross-Disability Coalition > 655 Broadway, Suite 775 > Denver, CO 80203 > 303.839.1775 (main and messages) > 303.839.0015 (direct and TTY) > 303.839.1782 (facsimile) > 800.817.1435 (main and messages) > 877.267.1621 (direct and TTY) > www.ccdconline.org > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/slabarre%40l > abarrelaw.com > _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tim.ford%40cdph.ca.gov From slabarre at labarrelaw.com Wed Mar 11 15:34:39 2009 From: slabarre at labarrelaw.com (Scott C. LaBarre) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 09:34:39 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. lsac complaint References: <001401c9a189$3fa59ee0$bef0dca0$@net> Message-ID: Greetings: For a variety of reasons, I respectfully decline an opportunity to receive a properly formatted LSAT practice exam. Ultimately, it is LSAC's responsibility to make their exams accessible. The lawsuit goes far beyond the practice exam, however. It also addresses the inaccessibility of the electronic application to law school part of their website, which is a much larger problem than the practice exam. James, thanks for your input and work. Please contact me off line with your contact info so that we can consult with you as the matter moves forward. Thanks, Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. LaBarre Law Offices P.C. 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 Denver, Colorado 80222 303 504-5979 (voice) 303 757-3640 (fax) slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) www.labarrelaw.com (website) CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rod Alcidonis" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 11:56 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. lsac complaint You are also violating copyright laws whether you send it to Scott or bill, so you know. Rod Alcidonis Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009. Roger Williams University School of Law 10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 Bristol, RI 02809 Cell: 718-704-4651 Home: 401-824-8685 ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Pepper" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 1:42 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. lsac complaint Well Bill the content is copyrighted by LSAC so I am not sure I can send this to you. Perhaps some on this list can give that advice. I laid it out properly. James On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 9:05 AM, Bill Spiry wrote: > I would appreciate receiving this as well. Thanks. > bspiry at comcast.net > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of James Pepper > Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 1:46 AM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. lsac complaint > > Scott: I laid out the first section of the LSAT to be accessible and I > can > send you the files if you would like to see it. Also I made the form that > they use accessible so the blind can fill out the test without assistance. > This works with JAWS and Window Eyes and a combination of Adobe's Read out > Loud and Microsoft Narrator. My process works and if you need references > at > NFB, AFB and the AAPD I can send them to you. > > It took a while to figure out how they made thier pdfs and I know where > they > are making their mistakes. I can correct this problem. These PDFs are > made > to work natively with JAWS and Adobe Reader and the other screen readers > without making any adjustments. They work with the default settings in > Adobe Reader. > > Also the forms can be digitally signed and saved and all that fancy stuff > that you expect with Adobe Acrobat Professional can be done with > Adobe Reader, versions 8 or 9 which is the free download from Adobe.com. > So > we can make the LSAT accessible to anyone with a PC running Windows XP Or > VIsta without any change of settings. This means the PC can be there for > the sighted and the blind, with equal access for all. > > Also since I labeled everything, it will be a lot quicker for you to fill > out this test! > > Sincerely, > > James G. Pepper > > > > On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 4:32 PM, Scott C. LaBarre > wrote: > > > Below I am sharing the complaint that we filed today in California > > Court. > > ************** > > LaurEnce W. paradis (California Bar No. 122336) > > > > Anna levine (California Bar No. 227881) > > > > Disability Rights Advocates > > > > 2001 Center Street, Third Floor > > > > Berkeley, California 94704 > > > > Telephone: (510) 665-8644 > > > > Facsimile: (510) 665-8511 > > > > TTY: (510) 665-8716 > > > > > > > > SCOTT LABARRE (to seek pro hac vice admission) > > > > LABARRE LAW OFFICES, P.C. > > > > 1660 S. Albion Street, Ste 918 > > > > Denver, Colo 80222 > > > > Telephone: (303) 504-5979 > > > > Fax: (303) 757-3640 > > > > > > > > DANIEL F. GOLDSTEIN (to seek pro hac vice admission) > > > > MEHGAN Sidhu (to seek pro hac vice admission) > > > > Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP > > > > 120 E. Baltimore St., Suite 1700 > > > > Baltimore, MD 21202 > > > > Telephone: (410) 962-1030 > > > > Fax: (410) 385-0869 > > > > > > > > SUPERIOR COURT OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA > > COUNTY OF ALAMEDA > > > > > > > > National Federation of the Blind, the National Federation of the > Blind > > of CALIFORNIA, and DEEPA GORAYA, > > > > > > > > Plaintiffs, > > > > v. > > > > LAW SCHOOL ADMISSION COUNCIL, INC., > > > > Defendant. > > > > > > > > Case No.: > > > > > > > > > > > > COMPLAINT FOR INJUNCTIVE AND DECLARATORY RELIEF FOR VIOLATIONS OF > THE > > CALIFORNIA DISABLED PERSONS ACT AND UNRUH CIVIL RIGHTS ACT > > > > > > > > > > INTRODUCTION > > > > Plaintiffs complain of Defendant and allege herein as follows: > > > > 1. This action, brought by the National Federation of the Blind, > > the National Federation of the Blind of California, and Deepa Goraya, > seeks > > to put an end to civil rights violations committed by defendant Law > School > > Admissions Council (hereafter "LSAC") against blind persons seeking to > take > > the LSAT exam and apply to law schools. Plaintiff Deepa Goraya, a blind > law > > school applicant in California, has been and is being denied equal > > access > to > > the accommodations, advantages, and facilities LSAC provides its > > non-disabled customers through http://www.lsac.org (hereafter "lsac.org" > > and "the website"). Plaintiffs National Federation of the Blind and the > > National Federation of the Blind of California have members who are > > similarly denied full and equal access to such accommodations, > > advantages > > and facilities. Lsac.org is currently the only place online where > > prospective law students can register for the Law School Admissions Test > > ("LSAT"), apply to law schools, and obtain official LSAT test > > preparation > > materials and information. Lsac.org contains multiple access barriers > that > > make it difficult if not impossible for blind law school applicants and > LSAT > > test takers to use the website and to obtain practice materials without > > sighted assistance. LSAC thus excludes the blind, including Ms. Goraya, > > from full and equal access to the accommodations, advantages, > > facilities, > > and privileges of lsac.org. > > > > JURISDICTION > > > > 2. This is a civil action under California's Disabled Persons > > Act > > (Cal. Civ. Code §§ 54, et seq.) and the Unruh Civil Rights Act (Cal. > > Civ. > > Code §§ 51, et seq.) and for declaratory relief. This Court has > > jurisdiction over the claims alleged herein pursuant to California Civil > > Code §§ 54, et seq. and California Civil Code §§ 51, et seq. and > California > > Code of Civil Procedure section 1060. > > > > 3. This Court has jurisdiction over LSAC because LSAC is a > > corporation authorized to do business in California and LSAC conducts > > substantial business in California. LSAC owns, maintains and operates > > its > > website, lsac.org, throughout California and in Alameda County. > > > > > > > > VENUE > > > > 4. Venue is proper in Alameda County because liability arises in > > part in Alameda County, where the National Federation of the Blind of > > California has its headquarters. LSAC has been and is committing the > acts > > alleged herein in Alameda County, has been and is violating the rights > > of > > patrons in Alameda County, and has been and is causing injury to patrons > in > > Alameda County. > > > > 5. Plaintiff Goraya is a California citizen and has experienced > > injury in California as a result of LSAC's inaccessible website and > practice > > materials. > > > > PARTIES > > > > 6. Plaintiff the National Federation of the Blind (hereafter > "NFB") > > is a national advocacy organization. The NFB, the oldest and largest > > national organization of blind persons, is a non-profit corporation duly > > organized under the laws of the District of Columbia with its principal > > place of business in Baltimore, Maryland. It has affiliates in all 50 > > states (including California) as well as Washington, D.C. and Puerto > Rico. > > The vast majority of the approximately 50,000 members are blind > > persons. > > The NFB is widely recognized by the public, Congress, executive > > agencies > of > > government and the courts as a collective and representative voice on > behalf > > of blind Americans and their families. The purpose of the NFB is to > promote > > the general welfare of the blind by (1) assisting the blind in their > efforts > > to integrate themselves into society on terms of equality and (2) > removing > > barriers and changing social attitudes, stereotypes and mistaken beliefs > > that sighted and blind persons hold concerning the limitations created > > by > > blindness resulting in the denial of opportunity to blind persons in > > virtually every sphere of life. The NFB and many of its members have > long > > been actively involved in promoting adaptive technology for the blind, > > so > > that blind persons can live and work independently in today's > > technology-dependent world. NFB members reside throughout the United > > States, including the state of California, and many of its members would > use > > the services of lsac.org if this website is made independently usable by > > the blind. > > > > 7. Plaintiff the National Federation of the Blind of California > > (hereafter "NFB of California") is a state affiliate of the National > > Federation of the Blind. NFB of California is a California corporation > and > > carries out NFB's objectives at the state level. It has local chapters > > throughout California, including Alameda County, and has its > > headquarters > in > > Fremont, California, in Alameda County. > > > > 8. Plaintiff Goraya is a member of the NFB and the NFB of > > California. She is blind and has been denied full and equal access to > the > > accommodations, advantages, facilities and privileges of lsac.org. > > > > 9. Defendant LSAC, is a non-profit corporation > > established to coordinate, facilitate, and enhance the law school > admissions > > process. LSAC owns, operates and/or maintains the website lsac.com, a > > public accommodation. Plaintiffs seek access to the services provided > > by > > LSAC in California through lsac.org. > > > > FACTS > > > > 10. Lsac.org is owned, controlled and/or operated by LSAC. > Lsac.org > > is a public accommodation that offers its visitors comprehensive > > services > > for applying to law school. The website functions as the official > > destination for guiding prospective law school applicants through the > > fundamental steps of applying to law school. Among its services, > lsac.orgoffers information about the LSAT and law school application > process, and > > extensive LSAT preparation materials and resources. Lsac.org also > > serves > as > > the exclusive online means for registering for the LSAT and applying to > > ABA-accredited law schools. > > > > 11. According to the website, lsac.org's online services enable > > prospective law students to do the following, among other things: > > > > a.. Register for the LSAT > > b.. Register for the LSDAS (Law School Data Assembly Service) > > c.. Purchase publications and test preparation materials > > d.. Have access to electronic applications for all ABA-approved law > > schools > > e.. Apply online to law schools > > f.. Register for law school forums > > g.. Have 24-hour file access > > 12. In addition to facilitating the LSAT and law school application > > processes, a significant portion of the lsac.org website is devoted to > > preparing students to take the LSAT. Among the services offered in that > > regard are online information guides that explain how to prepare for the > > LSAT and free, downloadable sample practice tests and test questions. > > Lsac.org also offers for a fee an online LSAT practice test tool and > > the > > opportunity to purchase more than 40 official LSAT practice tests. > > > > 13. While sighted visitors to lsac.org can easily obtain the benefits > and > > advantages offered by the website, blind individuals, including Ms. > Goraya, > > have been and are being denied access to lsac.org due to LSAC's failure > > and refusal to remove access barriers to lsac.org. Specifically, blind > > visitors to the website, including Ms. Goraya, cannot independently > > apply > to > > law school, register for the LSAT, or obtain in an accessible format the > > LSAT preparation materials and practice tests available through lsac.org > . > > > > 14. The blind access websites by using keyboards in conjunction > with > > screen-reading software. This software vocalizes or conveys to a > refreshable > > Braille display information that appears visually on a computer screen. > > Unless websites are designed to allow for use in this manner, blind > persons > > are unable to fully access the internet websites and the information, > > products and services contained therein. > > > > 15. There are well-established guidelines for making websites > > accessible to the blind. These guidelines have been in place for at > least > > several years and have been followed successfully by other public > > accommodations in making their online services accessible. The Web > > Accessibility Initiative (WAI), a project of the World Wide Web > Consortium, > > which is the leading standards organization for the Web, has developed > > guidelines for making information that is reached via the internet > > accessible. The federal government has also promulgated accessibility > > standards under Section 508 of the Rehabilitation Act. These guidelines > > have long been readily available via the internet so that any public > > accommodation could easily secure the necessary information. > > > > 16. Lsac.org contains a variety of access barriers that prevent > free > > and full use by blind persons using keyboards and screen reading > software. > > These barriers include but are not limited to: lack of or improperly > > labeled form controls; faulty keyboard navigation; and use of tables and > > charts that are not formatted for accessibility. Form controls allow > users > > to input data on online forms and applications. These controls must be > > coded and labeled to allow screen-access software to detect and vocalize > the > > requested information. Keyboard navigation refers to the ability to > > successfully navigate a website using keyboard commands, as opposed to > > requiring a mouse as the exclusive means for navigation of the site. > > Further, charts and tables must be formatted to work with screen-access > > software. Much of the lsac.org website, and in particular the online > law > > school application and LSAT registration sections of the website, lack > these > > fundamental accessibility components. As a result, blind visitors to > > the > > website cannot independently use those and other critical features. > > > > 17. Lsac.org's test preparation materials that are available on > > the > > website in Adobe Portable Document (PDF) format, are not properly > "tagged." > > This means that the headings, paragraphs, tables, image descriptions > > and > > form controls are not easily discernable to screen-reading software. As > a > > result, these materials are cumbersome, if not impossible, for a blind > > visitor to navigate. > > > > 18. Finally, lsac.org fails to offer LSAT practice tests, > available > > as part of its test preparation services, in formats accessible to the > > blind. While the sighted can easily use the website to obtain more than > 40 > > formerly administered LSAT practice tests, the website fails to offer > > the > > opportunity to purchase these practice materials in formats accessible > > to > > the blind, such as Braille or an accessible electronic format. > > > > 19. As a result of lsac.org's accessibility barriers, blind law > > school applicants, including Ms. Goraya, must go over extraordinary > hurdles > > to register and prepare for the LSAT and to apply to law school compared > to > > their sighted counterparts. After unsuccessfully attempting to use > > lsac.org independently to register for the LSAT and fill out her law > > school applications, for example, Plaintiff Goraya was forced to select > and > > rely upon a reader for over 50 hours simply to read aloud the content of > the > > website and complete her law school applications. Moreover, none of the > > LSAT practice materials, which include previously administered versions > of > > the test, were available to her in accessible electronic formats. > Lsac.org > > thus contains numerous access barriers which deny full and equal access > to > > Plaintiff, who would otherwise use the accommodations, advantages, and > > facilities of lsac.org. > > > > 20. On December 10, 2008, Plaintiff National Federation of the > Blind > > notified LSAC of the unlawful accessibility barriers on its website. > LSAC > > responded by setting up and then canceling a meeting with the NFB. On > > January 22, 2009, the NFB notified LSAC that it intended to pursue legal > > action against LSAC for the unlawful barriers on its website. > > > > FIRST CAUSE OF ACTION > > > > (Violation of Cal. Civ. Code §§ 54, et seq. - the Disabled Persons Act) > > > > 21. The allegations contained in the previous paragraphs are > > incorporated by reference. > > > > 22. The Disabled Persons Act ("DPA") requires that individuals > > with > > disabilities have "full and equal access, as other members of the > > general > > public, to accommodations, advantages, facilities, . . . and other > > places > to > > which the general public is invited, subject only to the conditions and > > limitations established by law, or state or federal regulation, and > > applicable alike to all persons." Cal. Civ. Code 54.1(a)(1). > > > > 23. Lsac.org, which is owned, operated and/or maintained by LSAC, > is > > an > > > > accommodation, advantage, facility and/or place to which the general > public > > is invited, as those terms are used in Cal. Civ. Code § 54.1(a)(1). > > > > 24. Defendant's conduct alleged herein violates the DPA, including > > Cal. Civ. Code § 54.1(a)(1), by denying the Plaintiffs full and equal > access > > to the accommodations, advantages and facilities of lsac.org. > > > > 25. As a result of Defendant's conduct, the NFB, the NFB of > > California, and Ms. Goraya are entitled to injunctive relief requiring > > Defendant to make lsac.org accessible to blind individuals, and to make > > the LSAT test practice materials offered to lsac.org patrons available > to > > blind people in an accessible format. > > > > SECOND CAUSE OF ACTION > > > > (Violation of Cal.Civ. Code §§ 51, et seq. - The Unruh Act) > > > > 26. The allegations contained in the previous paragraphs are > > incorporated by reference. > > > > 27. California's Unruh Act requires that individuals with > > disabilities have "full and equal accommodations, advantages, > > facilities, > > privileges or services in all business establishments of every kind > > whatsoever." Cal. Civ. Code § 51(b). > > > > 28. LSAC and Lsac.org are business establishments as that term is > > used in Cal. Civ. Code § 51(b) and lsac.org is an accommodation, > > advantage, facility, privilege and service of LSAC. > > > > 29. Defendant's conduct alleged herein violates the Unruh Act, > > including Cal. Civ. Code § 51(b), by denying Plaintiffs the full and > equal > > accommodations, advantages, facilities, privileges or services of LSAC > and > > lsac.org. > > > > 30. Defendant violated the Unruh Act intentionally and/or with > > deliberate indifference to the likelihood that it was violating the > rights > > of blind people and/or Defendant's violations were so intuitive or > obvious > > that noncompliance could not be other than intentional. > > > > 31. As a result of Defendant's conduct, the NFB, the NFB of > > California, and Ms. Goraya are entitled to injunctive relief requiring > > Defendant to make lsac.org accessible to blind individuals, and to make > > the LSAT test practice materials offered to lsac.org patrons available > to > > blind people in an accessible format. > > > > > > > > THIRD CAUSE OF ACTION > > > > (Declaratory Relief, Cal. Civ. Proc. § 1060 ) > > > > 32. The allegations contained in the previous paragraphs are > > incorporated by reference. > > > > 33. On information and belief, Defendants contend that they may > > lawfully deny Plaintiffs access to their website and its contents. > > Plaintiffs contend that lsac.org, which LSAC owns, operates, and/or > > controls, must provide blind patrons access to its website and website > > contents under California Civil Code §§ 54, et seq. and California Civil > > Code §§ 51, et seq., which prohibit discrimination against the blind. > > > > 34. A judicial declaration is necessary and appropriate at this > time > > in order that each of the parties may know their respective rights and > > duties and act accordingly. > > > > WHEREFORE, Plaintiffs request relief as set forth below. > > > > RELIEF REQUESTED > > > > WHEREFORE, Plaintiffs pray for judgment as follows: > > > > 1. An order enjoining LSAC from violating California > > Civil Code §§ 51, et seq. and §§ 54, et seq.; > > > > 2. A declaration that LSAC is owning, maintaining > and/or > > operating lsac.org in a manner which discriminates against the blind and > > which fails to provide access for persons with disabilities as required > by > > law; > > > > 3. Plaintiffs' reasonable attorneys' fees and costs > > as > > authorized by California California Civil Code §§ 54, et seq., > > California > > Civil Code §§ 51, et seq., and pursuant to California Code of Civil > > Procedure § 1021.5. > > > > 4. Such other and further relief as the Court deems > just > > and proper. > > > > > > > > DATED: > > DISABILITY RIGHTS ADVOCATES > > > > > > > > > By: > > ____________________________ > > > > > > Laurence W. Paradis > > > > > > > > > > > > Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. > > > > LaBarre Law Offices P.C. > > 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 > > Denver, Colorado 80222 > > 303 504-5979 (voice) > > 303 757-3640 (fax) > > slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) > > www.labarrelaw.com (website) > > > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and > > privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may > not > > read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this > message > > in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or > > slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. > This > > message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic > > Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. > > _______________________________________________ > > blindlaw mailing list > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > blindlaw: > > > > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b75205%40gmail.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/bspiry%40comcast.n > et > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b75205%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/slabarre%40labarrelaw.com From m_b_gilmore at yahoo.com Wed Mar 11 17:00:41 2009 From: m_b_gilmore at yahoo.com (Mike Gilmore) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 10:00:41 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [blindlaw] independent contractor? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <923518.50295.qm@web90306.mail.mud.yahoo.com> What is meant by the term Of counsel?   Mike --- On Tue, 3/10/09, AZNOR99 at aol.com wrote: From: AZNOR99 at aol.com Subject: Re: [blindlaw] independent contractor? To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org Date: Tuesday, March 10, 2009, 10:24 PM When I was in private practice, I had a network of attorneys I'd call if I needed one to appear due to a conflict. Many lawyers have such informal networks, but others hire that sort of work out. For example, I had a friend who hired a private contractor to appear for all status hearings. I would suggest you start by making a list of all the lawyers you know in your area of practice and then getting in touch with them to let them you're available for court appearances. I also want to suggest _www.lawcrossing.com_ (http://www.lawcrossing.com) . It's not free, but it is quite good. You can set it up so it sends you job opportunities every day. It works like a search engine for legal jobs, and its success rate is high. Finally, you may want to consider joining a firm as Of Counsel. This is a lot cheaper for the firm because they don't necessarily have to pay you benefits, and most pay hourly wages instead of a salary. It's also really handy when there are client conflicts, because the Chinese wall is a lot easier to maintain. And malpractice insurance is much cheaper for Of Counsels than for employees. Good luck. Ronza In a message dated 3/10/2009 3:38:25 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, ckrugman at sbcglobal.net writes: Here in California there are agencies that hire temporary attorneys. Additionally, locally I have seen several ads on Craigslist looking for stand-in attorneys for court appearances and the like. I would check such places as Craigslist under "legal jobs" as well as general bar associations as well as publications for specialized bar associations, e.g. trial lawyers or as we know it in California Consumer Lawyers. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Shaw" To: Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 12:45 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] independent contractor? hmmm potential business idea a "temp agency" for lawyers, assigning independent ontractorsfor such tasks.... > Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 09:32:07 -0700 > From: m_b_gilmore at yahoo.com > To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org > Subject: [blindlaw] independent contractor? > > I am a member of a listserv for contract attorneys. Most of the e-mails > from that listserv concern document review; however, I read one the other > day about licensed attorneys working as independent contractors. (Examples > of this would be taking a deposition for another attorney or doing legal > research for another attorney or handling a court case for an attorney who > needs the help.) > > Anyway, I was wondering if any of you out there in D.C. or Northern > Virginia have done independent contractor work. That option appeals to > me. (Taking depositions appeals to me but I don't know how familiar one > would need to be with the case or if one just asks the questions the > attorney supplies to him.) > > Thanks in advance for your help. > > Mike > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/timandvickie%40hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ Express your personality in color! Preview and select themes for Hotmail®. http://www.windowslive-hotmail.com/LearnMore/personalize.aspx?ocid=TXT_MSGTX_W L_HM_express_032009#colortheme _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal .net _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/aznor99%40aol.com **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1219671244x1201345076/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fwww.freecreditreport.com%2Fpm%2Fdefault.aspx%3Fsc%3D668072%26hmpgID %3D62%26bcd%3DfebemailfooterNO62) _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/m_b_gilmore%40yahoo.com From my5thattempt at yahoo.com Wed Mar 11 18:38:07 2009 From: my5thattempt at yahoo.com (M BG) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 11:38:07 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target References: <001401c9a189$3fa59ee0$bef0dca0$@net> <4E8742A18776454A880746AD18B966F5@colorado0f48f8> <5F60EFF2D5FD48A6A428F280C2AE8727@labarre> Message-ID: <547789.45557.qm@web36707.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Thank you for the update.  What is the estimated time that this process it expected to take and at what point do you feel any claimants will be notified of disbursement? ________________________________ From: Scott C. LaBarre To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 3:35:26 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target Yes. It had been postponed and was rescheduled to yesterday.  Our local counsel attended the hearing and this afternoon Judge Patel issued an order granting final approval of the settlement and dismissing the claims.  The only remaining matter is that we are waiting for an opinion and ruling on attorneys fees. Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. LaBarre Law Offices P.C. 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 Denver, Colorado 80222 303 504-5979 (voice) 303 757-3640 (fax) slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) www.labarrelaw.com (website) CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carrie Ann Lucas" To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 1:58 PM Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > I think the final fairness hearing was supposed to happen yesterday.  Does > anyone know if it happened, and if so, what were the results? > > Carrie Ann Lucas > Director Center for Rights of Parents with Disabilities > Colorado Cross-Disability Coalition > 655 Broadway, Suite 775 > Denver, CO 80203 > 303.839.1775 (main and messages) > 303.839.0015 (direct and TTY) > 303.839.1782 (facsimile) > 800.817.1435 (main and messages) > 877.267.1621 (direct and TTY) > www.ccdconline.org > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/slabarre%40labarrelaw.com > _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/my5thattempt%40yahoo.com From carter.tjoseph at gmail.com Wed Mar 11 17:53:07 2009 From: carter.tjoseph at gmail.com (T. Joseph Carter) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 10:53:07 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. lsac complaint In-Reply-To: References: <001401c9a189$3fa59ee0$bef0dca0$@net> Message-ID: <20090311175307.GE58098@yumi.bluecherry.net> Hence the reason for the lawsuit. Actually, you may be able to send them to Scott if he is representing the NFB on this issue for use as evidence demonstrating that LSAC CAN make the documents accessible, but has chosen not to. I say may, because it seems like Copyright could not be a shield to prevent the court from seeing that the documents could be made accessible without substantial changes, if LSAC were to take minimal effort. I'd suggest asking someone qualified, as I'm 0L. ;) Joseph On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 01:45:10PM -0500, James Pepper wrote: >Well no wonder nothing becomes accessible. Stay with public domain documents >then. Oh well. > >James From dgoraya at ucla.edu Wed Mar 11 22:29:48 2009 From: dgoraya at ucla.edu (deepa goraya) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 15:29:48 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Fw: Any information is appreciated. Message-ID: <644B1987D48948378D3378088F70A3EA@deepa8b7ac5f2a> If anyone has any helpful info, please respond. Deepa ----- Original Message ----- From: "Aziza C" To: "David McClain" ; "deepa goraya" ; "Frances Carrillo" ; "Greg Benavidez" ; "Keyson, Terry" ; "Shane Johnson" ; "slabarre" Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 10:10 PM Subject: Any information is appreciated. > Hi Everyone, > Most of you know that my sister is going through an intense child > custody battle with her X-husband. Her previous lawyer was charging > her massive fees that he could never justify, and so she dismissed him > from the case. She has been trying to locate another legal > representative, and has been attempting to proceed with the case on > her own. This has resulted in paperwork being filled out incorrectly, > and court orders being sent to the wrong people. My sister really > doesn't know how to represent herself. It has recently gotten worse > when her x-husband sent out a complaint aledging that the accusations > of abuse that were he was charged with almost ten years ago were > untrue. My other sister and I were witnesses to this physical abuse, > which he was charged with. He also stated that my sister abducted he > child when my family relocated to Texas after the death of my father. > He claims that my family told my nephew that his father left my > sister for another woman, and that has been the reason for the > disfunctional father son relationship. My nephew has complained about > being physically abused while at his father's house, and I have been > one of the people who filed a report to the police on one such > occasion. My sister really needs assstance in how to respond to such > fabrications, and how to proceed. She is driving herself crazy, and > allowing her emotions to take over in court, which isn't helping her > at all. > If anyone has any information about lawyers in the Ventura/Oxnard Ca > area that might be able to help her, please email me as soon as > possible. > Thank you. > Aziza From rumpole at roadrunner.com Wed Mar 11 22:21:47 2009 From: rumpole at roadrunner.com (Ross Doerr) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 18:21:47 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] College textbooks question Message-ID: Recently there was a case noted on this list that involved college level textbooks being in accessible format. If anyone recalls that case, could you please contact me off list? Any comments regarding college level textbook accessibility would be welcome as well. Ross Doerr Esq. rumpole at roadrunner.com From angie at mpmail.net Thu Mar 12 10:45:53 2009 From: angie at mpmail.net (Angie Matney) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 06:45:53 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] College textbooks question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20090312104747.51092C51F4@mail1-backupmx.mn2.visi.com> Hi Ross, I don't remember the case you're referring to, but I think there is a New York law concerning accessibility of post-secondary texts. The Cornell disability services person mentioned it to me when I was trying to decide where to go to law school. He made it sound as though publishers must provide electronic copies if they are requiested. Sorry I don't know more about this. Angie On Wed, 11 Mar 2009 18:21:47 -0400, Ross Doerr wrote: >Recently there was a case noted on this list that involved college level textbooks being in accessible format. >If anyone recalls that case, could you please contact me off list? >Any comments regarding college level textbook accessibility would be welcome as well. >Ross Doerr Esq. >rumpole at roadrunner.com >_______________________________________________ >blindlaw mailing list >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie%40mpmail.net From bspiry at comcast.net Thu Mar 12 01:52:30 2009 From: bspiry at comcast.net (Bill Spiry) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 18:52:30 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. lsac complaint In-Reply-To: References: <001401c9a189$3fa59ee0$bef0dca0$@net> Message-ID: <000c01c9a2b5$35c39440$a14abcc0$@net> I understand. What might be done to getLSAC to authorize use of this material as an accessible alternative to what they have to offer? I know NFB is sueing them, but in the mean time that leaves folks like me who don't have the Adobe skills you have, and facing the LSAT soon without accessible matter. Any ideas or suggestions? Thanks. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of James Pepper Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 10:43 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. lsac complaint Well Bill the content is copyrighted by LSAC so I am not sure I can send this to you. Perhaps some on this list can give that advice. I laid it out properly. James On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 9:05 AM, Bill Spiry wrote: > I would appreciate receiving this as well. Thanks. > bspiry at comcast.net > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of James Pepper > Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 1:46 AM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. lsac complaint > > Scott: I laid out the first section of the LSAT to be accessible and I > can > send you the files if you would like to see it. Also I made the form that > they use accessible so the blind can fill out the test without assistance. > This works with JAWS and Window Eyes and a combination of Adobe's Read out > Loud and Microsoft Narrator. My process works and if you need references > at > NFB, AFB and the AAPD I can send them to you. > > It took a while to figure out how they made thier pdfs and I know where > they > are making their mistakes. I can correct this problem. These PDFs are made > to work natively with JAWS and Adobe Reader and the other screen readers > without making any adjustments. They work with the default settings in > Adobe Reader. > > Also the forms can be digitally signed and saved and all that fancy stuff > that you expect with Adobe Acrobat Professional can be done with > Adobe Reader, versions 8 or 9 which is the free download from Adobe.com. > So > we can make the LSAT accessible to anyone with a PC running Windows XP Or > VIsta without any change of settings. This means the PC can be there for > the sighted and the blind, with equal access for all. > > Also since I labeled everything, it will be a lot quicker for you to fill > out this test! > > Sincerely, > > James G. Pepper > > > > On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 4:32 PM, Scott C. LaBarre > wrote: > > > Below I am sharing the complaint that we filed today in California Court. > > ************** > > LaurEnce W. paradis (California Bar No. 122336) > > > > Anna levine (California Bar No. 227881) > > > > Disability Rights Advocates > > > > 2001 Center Street, Third Floor > > > > Berkeley, California 94704 > > > > Telephone: (510) 665-8644 > > > > Facsimile: (510) 665-8511 > > > > TTY: (510) 665-8716 > > > > > > > > SCOTT LABARRE (to seek pro hac vice admission) > > > > LABARRE LAW OFFICES, P.C. > > > > 1660 S. Albion Street, Ste 918 > > > > Denver, Colo 80222 > > > > Telephone: (303) 504-5979 > > > > Fax: (303) 757-3640 > > > > > > > > DANIEL F. GOLDSTEIN (to seek pro hac vice admission) > > > > MEHGAN Sidhu (to seek pro hac vice admission) > > > > Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP > > > > 120 E. Baltimore St., Suite 1700 > > > > Baltimore, MD 21202 > > > > Telephone: (410) 962-1030 > > > > Fax: (410) 385-0869 > > > > > > > > SUPERIOR COURT OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA > > COUNTY OF ALAMEDA > > > > > > > > National Federation of the Blind, the National Federation of the > Blind > > of CALIFORNIA, and DEEPA GORAYA, > > > > > > > > Plaintiffs, > > > > v. > > > > LAW SCHOOL ADMISSION COUNCIL, INC., > > > > Defendant. > > > > > > > > Case No.: > > > > > > > > > > > > COMPLAINT FOR INJUNCTIVE AND DECLARATORY RELIEF FOR VIOLATIONS OF > THE > > CALIFORNIA DISABLED PERSONS ACT AND UNRUH CIVIL RIGHTS ACT > > > > > > > > > > INTRODUCTION > > > > Plaintiffs complain of Defendant and allege herein as follows: > > > > 1. This action, brought by the National Federation of the Blind, > > the National Federation of the Blind of California, and Deepa Goraya, > seeks > > to put an end to civil rights violations committed by defendant Law > School > > Admissions Council (hereafter "LSAC") against blind persons seeking to > take > > the LSAT exam and apply to law schools. Plaintiff Deepa Goraya, a blind > law > > school applicant in California, has been and is being denied equal access > to > > the accommodations, advantages, and facilities LSAC provides its > > non-disabled customers through http://www.lsac.org (hereafter "lsac.org" > > and "the website"). Plaintiffs National Federation of the Blind and the > > National Federation of the Blind of California have members who are > > similarly denied full and equal access to such accommodations, advantages > > and facilities. Lsac.org is currently the only place online where > > prospective law students can register for the Law School Admissions Test > > ("LSAT"), apply to law schools, and obtain official LSAT test preparation > > materials and information. Lsac.org contains multiple access barriers > that > > make it difficult if not impossible for blind law school applicants and > LSAT > > test takers to use the website and to obtain practice materials without > > sighted assistance. LSAC thus excludes the blind, including Ms. Goraya, > > from full and equal access to the accommodations, advantages, facilities, > > and privileges of lsac.org. > > > > JURISDICTION > > > > 2. This is a civil action under California's Disabled Persons Act > > (Cal. Civ. Code §§ 54, et seq.) and the Unruh Civil Rights Act (Cal. Civ. > > Code §§ 51, et seq.) and for declaratory relief. This Court has > > jurisdiction over the claims alleged herein pursuant to California Civil > > Code §§ 54, et seq. and California Civil Code §§ 51, et seq. and > California > > Code of Civil Procedure section 1060. > > > > 3. This Court has jurisdiction over LSAC because LSAC is a > > corporation authorized to do business in California and LSAC conducts > > substantial business in California. LSAC owns, maintains and operates its > > website, lsac.org, throughout California and in Alameda County. > > > > > > > > VENUE > > > > 4. Venue is proper in Alameda County because liability arises in > > part in Alameda County, where the National Federation of the Blind of > > California has its headquarters. LSAC has been and is committing the > acts > > alleged herein in Alameda County, has been and is violating the rights of > > patrons in Alameda County, and has been and is causing injury to patrons > in > > Alameda County. > > > > 5. Plaintiff Goraya is a California citizen and has experienced > > injury in California as a result of LSAC's inaccessible website and > practice > > materials. > > > > PARTIES > > > > 6. Plaintiff the National Federation of the Blind (hereafter > "NFB") > > is a national advocacy organization. The NFB, the oldest and largest > > national organization of blind persons, is a non-profit corporation duly > > organized under the laws of the District of Columbia with its principal > > place of business in Baltimore, Maryland. It has affiliates in all 50 > > states (including California) as well as Washington, D.C. and Puerto > Rico. > > The vast majority of the approximately 50,000 members are blind persons. > > The NFB is widely recognized by the public, Congress, executive agencies > of > > government and the courts as a collective and representative voice on > behalf > > of blind Americans and their families. The purpose of the NFB is to > promote > > the general welfare of the blind by (1) assisting the blind in their > efforts > > to integrate themselves into society on terms of equality and (2) > removing > > barriers and changing social attitudes, stereotypes and mistaken beliefs > > that sighted and blind persons hold concerning the limitations created by > > blindness resulting in the denial of opportunity to blind persons in > > virtually every sphere of life. The NFB and many of its members have > long > > been actively involved in promoting adaptive technology for the blind, so > > that blind persons can live and work independently in today's > > technology-dependent world. NFB members reside throughout the United > > States, including the state of California, and many of its members would > use > > the services of lsac.org if this website is made independently usable by > > the blind. > > > > 7. Plaintiff the National Federation of the Blind of California > > (hereafter "NFB of California") is a state affiliate of the National > > Federation of the Blind. NFB of California is a California corporation > and > > carries out NFB's objectives at the state level. It has local chapters > > throughout California, including Alameda County, and has its headquarters > in > > Fremont, California, in Alameda County. > > > > 8. Plaintiff Goraya is a member of the NFB and the NFB of > > California. She is blind and has been denied full and equal access to > the > > accommodations, advantages, facilities and privileges of lsac.org. > > > > 9. Defendant LSAC, is a non-profit corporation > > established to coordinate, facilitate, and enhance the law school > admissions > > process. LSAC owns, operates and/or maintains the website lsac.com, a > > public accommodation. Plaintiffs seek access to the services provided by > > LSAC in California through lsac.org. > > > > FACTS > > > > 10. Lsac.org is owned, controlled and/or operated by LSAC. > Lsac.org > > is a public accommodation that offers its visitors comprehensive services > > for applying to law school. The website functions as the official > > destination for guiding prospective law school applicants through the > > fundamental steps of applying to law school. Among its services, > lsac.orgoffers information about the LSAT and law school application > process, and > > extensive LSAT preparation materials and resources. Lsac.org also serves > as > > the exclusive online means for registering for the LSAT and applying to > > ABA-accredited law schools. > > > > 11. According to the website, lsac.org's online services enable > > prospective law students to do the following, among other things: > > > > a.. Register for the LSAT > > b.. Register for the LSDAS (Law School Data Assembly Service) > > c.. Purchase publications and test preparation materials > > d.. Have access to electronic applications for all ABA-approved law > > schools > > e.. Apply online to law schools > > f.. Register for law school forums > > g.. Have 24-hour file access > > 12. In addition to facilitating the LSAT and law school application > > processes, a significant portion of the lsac.org website is devoted to > > preparing students to take the LSAT. Among the services offered in that > > regard are online information guides that explain how to prepare for the > > LSAT and free, downloadable sample practice tests and test questions. > > Lsac.org also offers for a fee an online LSAT practice test tool and the > > opportunity to purchase more than 40 official LSAT practice tests. > > > > 13. While sighted visitors to lsac.org can easily obtain the benefits > and > > advantages offered by the website, blind individuals, including Ms. > Goraya, > > have been and are being denied access to lsac.org due to LSAC's failure > > and refusal to remove access barriers to lsac.org. Specifically, blind > > visitors to the website, including Ms. Goraya, cannot independently apply > to > > law school, register for the LSAT, or obtain in an accessible format the > > LSAT preparation materials and practice tests available through lsac.org > . > > > > 14. The blind access websites by using keyboards in conjunction > with > > screen-reading software. This software vocalizes or conveys to a > refreshable > > Braille display information that appears visually on a computer screen. > > Unless websites are designed to allow for use in this manner, blind > persons > > are unable to fully access the internet websites and the information, > > products and services contained therein. > > > > 15. There are well-established guidelines for making websites > > accessible to the blind. These guidelines have been in place for at > least > > several years and have been followed successfully by other public > > accommodations in making their online services accessible. The Web > > Accessibility Initiative (WAI), a project of the World Wide Web > Consortium, > > which is the leading standards organization for the Web, has developed > > guidelines for making information that is reached via the internet > > accessible. The federal government has also promulgated accessibility > > standards under Section 508 of the Rehabilitation Act. These guidelines > > have long been readily available via the internet so that any public > > accommodation could easily secure the necessary information. > > > > 16. Lsac.org contains a variety of access barriers that prevent > free > > and full use by blind persons using keyboards and screen reading > software. > > These barriers include but are not limited to: lack of or improperly > > labeled form controls; faulty keyboard navigation; and use of tables and > > charts that are not formatted for accessibility. Form controls allow > users > > to input data on online forms and applications. These controls must be > > coded and labeled to allow screen-access software to detect and vocalize > the > > requested information. Keyboard navigation refers to the ability to > > successfully navigate a website using keyboard commands, as opposed to > > requiring a mouse as the exclusive means for navigation of the site. > > Further, charts and tables must be formatted to work with screen-access > > software. Much of the lsac.org website, and in particular the online > law > > school application and LSAT registration sections of the website, lack > these > > fundamental accessibility components. As a result, blind visitors to the > > website cannot independently use those and other critical features. > > > > 17. Lsac.org's test preparation materials that are available on the > > website in Adobe Portable Document (PDF) format, are not properly > "tagged." > > This means that the headings, paragraphs, tables, image descriptions and > > form controls are not easily discernable to screen-reading software. As > a > > result, these materials are cumbersome, if not impossible, for a blind > > visitor to navigate. > > > > 18. Finally, lsac.org fails to offer LSAT practice tests, > available > > as part of its test preparation services, in formats accessible to the > > blind. While the sighted can easily use the website to obtain more than > 40 > > formerly administered LSAT practice tests, the website fails to offer the > > opportunity to purchase these practice materials in formats accessible to > > the blind, such as Braille or an accessible electronic format. > > > > 19. As a result of lsac.org's accessibility barriers, blind law > > school applicants, including Ms. Goraya, must go over extraordinary > hurdles > > to register and prepare for the LSAT and to apply to law school compared > to > > their sighted counterparts. After unsuccessfully attempting to use > > lsac.org independently to register for the LSAT and fill out her law > > school applications, for example, Plaintiff Goraya was forced to select > and > > rely upon a reader for over 50 hours simply to read aloud the content of > the > > website and complete her law school applications. Moreover, none of the > > LSAT practice materials, which include previously administered versions > of > > the test, were available to her in accessible electronic formats. > Lsac.org > > thus contains numerous access barriers which deny full and equal access > to > > Plaintiff, who would otherwise use the accommodations, advantages, and > > facilities of lsac.org. > > > > 20. On December 10, 2008, Plaintiff National Federation of the > Blind > > notified LSAC of the unlawful accessibility barriers on its website. > LSAC > > responded by setting up and then canceling a meeting with the NFB. On > > January 22, 2009, the NFB notified LSAC that it intended to pursue legal > > action against LSAC for the unlawful barriers on its website. > > > > FIRST CAUSE OF ACTION > > > > (Violation of Cal. Civ. Code §§ 54, et seq. - the Disabled Persons Act) > > > > 21. The allegations contained in the previous paragraphs are > > incorporated by reference. > > > > 22. The Disabled Persons Act ("DPA") requires that individuals with > > disabilities have "full and equal access, as other members of the general > > public, to accommodations, advantages, facilities, . . . and other places > to > > which the general public is invited, subject only to the conditions and > > limitations established by law, or state or federal regulation, and > > applicable alike to all persons." Cal. Civ. Code 54.1(a)(1). > > > > 23. Lsac.org, which is owned, operated and/or maintained by LSAC, > is > > an > > > > accommodation, advantage, facility and/or place to which the general > public > > is invited, as those terms are used in Cal. Civ. Code § 54.1(a)(1). > > > > 24. Defendant's conduct alleged herein violates the DPA, including > > Cal. Civ. Code § 54.1(a)(1), by denying the Plaintiffs full and equal > access > > to the accommodations, advantages and facilities of lsac.org. > > > > 25. As a result of Defendant's conduct, the NFB, the NFB of > > California, and Ms. Goraya are entitled to injunctive relief requiring > > Defendant to make lsac.org accessible to blind individuals, and to make > > the LSAT test practice materials offered to lsac.org patrons available > to > > blind people in an accessible format. > > > > SECOND CAUSE OF ACTION > > > > (Violation of Cal.Civ. Code §§ 51, et seq. - The Unruh Act) > > > > 26. The allegations contained in the previous paragraphs are > > incorporated by reference. > > > > 27. California's Unruh Act requires that individuals with > > disabilities have "full and equal accommodations, advantages, facilities, > > privileges or services in all business establishments of every kind > > whatsoever." Cal. Civ. Code § 51(b). > > > > 28. LSAC and Lsac.org are business establishments as that term is > > used in Cal. Civ. Code § 51(b) and lsac.org is an accommodation, > > advantage, facility, privilege and service of LSAC. > > > > 29. Defendant's conduct alleged herein violates the Unruh Act, > > including Cal. Civ. Code § 51(b), by denying Plaintiffs the full and > equal > > accommodations, advantages, facilities, privileges or services of LSAC > and > > lsac.org. > > > > 30. Defendant violated the Unruh Act intentionally and/or with > > deliberate indifference to the likelihood that it was violating the > rights > > of blind people and/or Defendant's violations were so intuitive or > obvious > > that noncompliance could not be other than intentional. > > > > 31. As a result of Defendant's conduct, the NFB, the NFB of > > California, and Ms. Goraya are entitled to injunctive relief requiring > > Defendant to make lsac.org accessible to blind individuals, and to make > > the LSAT test practice materials offered to lsac.org patrons available > to > > blind people in an accessible format. > > > > > > > > THIRD CAUSE OF ACTION > > > > (Declaratory Relief, Cal. Civ. Proc. § 1060 ) > > > > 32. The allegations contained in the previous paragraphs are > > incorporated by reference. > > > > 33. On information and belief, Defendants contend that they may > > lawfully deny Plaintiffs access to their website and its contents. > > Plaintiffs contend that lsac.org, which LSAC owns, operates, and/or > > controls, must provide blind patrons access to its website and website > > contents under California Civil Code §§ 54, et seq. and California Civil > > Code §§ 51, et seq., which prohibit discrimination against the blind. > > > > 34. A judicial declaration is necessary and appropriate at this > time > > in order that each of the parties may know their respective rights and > > duties and act accordingly. > > > > WHEREFORE, Plaintiffs request relief as set forth below. > > > > RELIEF REQUESTED > > > > WHEREFORE, Plaintiffs pray for judgment as follows: > > > > 1. An order enjoining LSAC from violating California > > Civil Code §§ 51, et seq. and §§ 54, et seq.; > > > > 2. A declaration that LSAC is owning, maintaining > and/or > > operating lsac.org in a manner which discriminates against the blind and > > which fails to provide access for persons with disabilities as required > by > > law; > > > > 3. Plaintiffs' reasonable attorneys' fees and costs as > > authorized by California California Civil Code §§ 54, et seq., California > > Civil Code §§ 51, et seq., and pursuant to California Code of Civil > > Procedure § 1021.5. > > > > 4. Such other and further relief as the Court deems > just > > and proper. > > > > > > > > DATED: > > DISABILITY RIGHTS ADVOCATES > > > > > > > > > By: > > ____________________________ > > > > > > Laurence W. Paradis > > > > > > > > > > > > Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. > > > > LaBarre Law Offices P.C. > > 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 > > Denver, Colorado 80222 > > 303 504-5979 (voice) > > 303 757-3640 (fax) > > slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) > > www.labarrelaw.com (website) > > > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and > > privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may > not > > read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this > message > > in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or > > slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. > This > > message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic > > Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. > > _______________________________________________ > > blindlaw mailing list > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > blindlaw: > > > > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b75205%40gmail.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/bspiry%40comcast.n > et > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b75205%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/bspiry%40comcast.n et From b75205 at gmail.com Thu Mar 12 17:28:44 2009 From: b75205 at gmail.com (James Pepper) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 12:28:44 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. lsac complaint In-Reply-To: <20090311175307.GE58098@yumi.bluecherry.net> References: <001401c9a189$3fa59ee0$bef0dca0$@net> <20090311175307.GE58098@yumi.bluecherry.net> Message-ID: Well I will make a default layout and send that instead. The problem here is that the folks at the LSAT are actually using the wrong program to make their PDFs. That program consistently makes errors for accessibility. James Pepper On Wed, Mar 11, 2009 at 12:53 PM, T. Joseph Carter wrote: > Hence the reason for the lawsuit. > > Actually, you may be able to send them to Scott if he is representing the > NFB on this issue for use as evidence demonstrating that LSAC CAN make the > documents accessible, but has chosen not to. I say may, because it seems > like Copyright could not be a shield to prevent the court from seeing that > the documents could be made accessible without substantial changes, if LSAC > were to take minimal effort. I'd suggest asking someone qualified, as I'm > 0L. ;) > > Joseph > > On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 01:45:10PM -0500, James Pepper wrote: > >> Well no wonder nothing becomes accessible. Stay with public domain >> documents >> then. Oh well. >> >> James >> > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b75205%40gmail.com > From b75205 at gmail.com Thu Mar 12 17:25:00 2009 From: b75205 at gmail.com (James Pepper) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 12:25:00 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] comments needed regarding policy for audible pedestrian signals In-Reply-To: <46F35C9C59EA4BEA85A215EF8960813E@spike> References: <46F35C9C59EA4BEA85A215EF8960813E@spike> Message-ID: Well if you are in London they have a lot of experience with this type of thing. Well what they should be doing is placing the raised warnings actually into the roads for the crosswalks but the law is specific in only providing a visual contrast, which is just painting lines into the road. Here is the ADAAG link: http://www.access-board.gov/adaag/html/adaag.htm#4.29 There is a man living near me whose dog is not that good and he has to spend a long time figuring out if he can safely walk across the street. His dog leads him diagonally across the street, it is a disaster! He wants to be independent and refuses to talk about it, but his dog is not that good. Toronto and London have accessible traffic lights, they will have the data on this type of thing. James Pepper On Wed, Mar 11, 2009 at 7:21 AM, wrote: > The City of Fresno is proposing the policy shown below to evaluate the > installation of audible traffic signals. As this is outside my expertise I > would appreciate any comments regarding this document. Please feel free to > contact me off list if needed. > Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal > 1237 P Street > Fresno ca 93721 > 559-266-9237 > > > APS Policy-03-09-LP .pdf > DRAFT ACCESSIBLE PEDESTRIAN SIGNALS (APS) > INTERSECTION EVALUATION PROCEDURE > BACKGROUND > Accessible Pedestrian Signals (APS), also known as audible pedestrian > signals, are devices > that communicate information about pedestrian timing in nonvisual format > such as audible > tones, verbal messages, and/or vibrating surfaces. APS are used in > conjunction with standard > pedestrian activated traffic signals to provide the following information > to pedestrians: > list of 4 items >  > Existence of and location of the pedestrian pushbutton >  > Beginning of the pedestrian WALK interval >  > Direction of the crosswalk and location of the destination curb >  > Clearance signal interval > list end > They are used to assist blind and visually impaired persons and other > persons with disabilities > of all ages to cross at designated streets and intersections. > PURPOSE > The purpose of this evaluation policy is to set forth factors to be used by > the City of Fresno’s > Public Works Department, in cooperation with the City of Fresno’s > Disability Advisory > Commission, in developing a priority listing of signalized intersection > candidates to be retrofitted > with audible devices that will provide guidance for the blind community and > visually impaired > persons and other persons with disabilities of all ages to cross certain > streets. > POLICY > It is the policy of the City Council that the retrofitting of existing > traffic signals with APS shall be > based on factors established herein and that such measurements and > computations as may be > required in determining priority rating of candidate locations shall be the > responsibility of the > Public Works Department. > It should be noted that in special situations, an APS should not be > installed because of the > adverse affect it could have on pedestrian safety as a result of the > overall traffic circulation > pattern of an area, or unusual geometric conditions where an APS would not > provide the safety > benefits necessary for the blind or visually impaired individuals to cross > a street. It should also > be noted that some traffic signals cannot be retrofitted with APS without > major costly > modifications. Retrofitting of traffic signals with APS shall be subject to > approval by the City > Engineer. > Important: APS are utilized to help blind and visually impaired travelers > recognize when a > WALK signal is operating in a given direction. An APS may enhance the > safety of blind > travelers in two ways: > list of 1 items > 1. > Lessens the chance of a blind or visually impaired pedestrian misjudging > when the walk > phase is operating, thereby lessening the chance of accidentally crossing > against a > signal. > list end > list of 1 items > 2. > Helps blind and visually impaired pedestrians recognize immediately when > the walk > phase begins, permitting them to cross the street in a timely fashion, > thereby lessening > the chance of being in the intersection when the signal changes. > list end > However, it is important to recognize that the APS does not and cannot > assure the blind and > visually impaired pedestrians that there will be no potential traffic > conflicts while crossing when > the APS is operating. In particular, the blind and visually impaired > pedestrians should be aware > of at least four possible conflicts. > list of 4 items > 1. > Vehicles may be still clearing the intersection when the APS comes on. > 2. > Vehicles may fail to stop for the red light. This is particularly common > for motorists > attempting to enter on a yellow light. > 3. > Motorists may stop and make a right turn on red while watching traffic on > their left but > may fail to notice pedestrians on their right. > 4. > Vehicles may have right and left turns on the same phase as the pedestrian. > list end > Because of these potential conflicts, it is important that the blind or > visually impaired traveler > exercise due caution for his or her well-being when crossing a street, > whether or not it is > equipped with APS. It is especially important that blind and visually > impaired travelers be > properly trained by certified orientation and mobility specialists in safe > travel techniques on the > public right-of-way. > EVALUATION PROCEDURE (See attached “Evaluation Form.”) > The following basic considerations and evaluation factors shall be utilized > to determine whether > a location is eligible to be a candidate for APS and to determine its > relative position on the > priority list. Evaluation and scoring of factors will be conducted by an > evaluation team consisting > of a certified orientation-mobility specialist, a visually impaired/blind > traveler and a traffic > engineer. Candidate locations shall be requested by the City of Fresno > Disability Advisory > Commission, its working groups, and constituent requests to the ADA > Coordinator’s office. > Candidate locations will be evaluated by means of the sample evaluation > sheet attached. > I. BASIC CONSIDERATIONS: > APS normally will be considered for installation only if the following > conditions are met: > list of 5 items > A. > Intersections must be signalized. > B. > Signals must be susceptible to retrofitting. > C. > Signals should be equipped with pedestrian signal actuations. (See also > section on > “Signals without Pedestrian Actuations.”) > D. > Location must be suitable to installation of audible signals, in terms of > surrounding land > use, noise level and neighborhood acceptance. > E. > There must be a demonstrated need for the audible signals in the form of a > request from > an individual or group that would use the audible signal. > list end > II EVALUATION FACTORS > The following factors shall be used to establish a priority listing for > potential audible traffic signal > candidates. Candidates will be arranged in priority order of those with the > highest total points > (100 points maximum) on top and then in descending order. The scoring of > factors will be > conducted by an evaluation team consistent of a mobility specialist, a > visually impaired/blind > traveler and a traffic engineer. If the request for an APS was made by a > deaf blind individual, or > by representative of an organization serving deaf blind pedestrians in > order to improve access in > their geographic area, the evaluation team may also include a deaf blind > rater. The decision > whether to include a deaf blind rater will be made by the City Engineer. > A) Intersection Safety > 1. Accident Records: Past pedestrian accident experience at the > intersection will > be used as an indication of potential safety performance. Points will be > based on > pedestrian accidents reported by the City of Fresno’s Police Department. > > table with 3 columns and 6 rows > Pedestrian Accidents > Period > Points > 1 > 4 years > 1 > 2 > 4 years > 2 > 3 > 4 years > 3 > 4 > 4 years > 4 > 5 or more > 4 years > 5 > table end > > 2. Intersection Configuration: The number of approaches to an intersection > and > their geometric configuration (offset, skewed, etc.) affect the ability of > the blind > and visually impaired persons crossing the roadway. In particular, traffic > at 3-leg > intersections tends not to provide adequate audible clues for the blind to > permit > them to effectively judge the signal phase. > > table with 2 columns and 6 rows > Configuration > Points > 4-leg right angle intersection > 1 > 3-leg T-intersection > 2 > 3 or 4-leg skewed intersection > 3 > 4-leg offset intersection > 4 > Other complex or multiple leg intersections > 5 > table end > > Note: Intersections with 5 or more legs will require special design. > 3. Intersection Signalization: Pre-timed intersections are the easiest for > blind > pedestrian because the phase interval is constant and can be observed over > time. Vehicle actuated intersections are more difficult, because the > pedestrian > interval may be of different lengths or skipped all together. Split-phasing > can > provide confusing auditory information, as a traveler may interpret > left-turning > vehicles as a parallel traffic surge. > > table with 2 columns and 5 rows > Signalization > Points > Pre-timed > 0 > Vehicle Actuated > 2 > Split Phasing > 4 > Exclusive Ped Phase (for future reference) > 5 > table end > > 4. > Width of Crossing: > Wider streets are more difficult for blind travelers to cross. If > each leg of the intersection has a different width, points will be assigned > on the > basis of the widest street on which pedestrians are permitted to cross. > Crossing > width will be measured at the point pedestrians normally cross the street. > Islands > and medians will be included in the total crossing distance even if they > are > equipped with separate pedestrian signal actuators. These points will be > apportioned based upon the greatest width of the crossing at the subject > intersection. > > table with 2 columns and 7 rows > Width of Crossing > Points > 40 feet or less > 0 > 40 to 59 feet > 1 > 60 to 79 feet > 2 > 80 to 99 feet > 3 > 100 -119 > 4 > 120 feet or more > 5 > table end > > 5. Vehicle Speed: The speed of approaching traffic reflects the ability of > approaching traffic to stop for a pedestrian clearing the intersection as > the lights > change. Audible signals help blind pedestrians get a timely start at the > beginning > of the walk phase, thereby permitting clearing the intersection in a timely > manner. > Points are assigned on the basis of the 85 percentile speed on the fastest > approach leg. More points are assigned on the basis of higher speeds. > > table with 2 columns and 6 rows > Speed Range > Points > 0 – 25 mph > 1 > 26 – 30 mph > 2 > 31 – 35 mph > 3 > 36 – 40 mph > 4 > 41 mph or over > 5 > table end > > B. Crosswalk Characteristics > These points will be apportioned based upon the highest-scoring > characteristics of any of the > crosswalks at the intersection. For example, if any of the crosswalks at an > intersection have a > median island protruding into an intersection, then the intersection will > receive the two points > allotted for that characteristic. > list of 1 items > (a) > Location of Pedestrian Push Button. Pedestrian push buttons that are too > far from > the intersection can present difficulties for blind pedestrians. They may > make it > harder for an individual to use the button as a cue for alignment and/or to > push the > button and cross in the same cycle. > list end > > table with 2 columns and 4 rows > Location of Pedestrian Actuations > Points > One or more ped pushbuttons located > 10 ft from curb > 1 > One or more ped pushbuttons located > 5 ft from crosswalk extended > 2 > One or more ped pushbuttons out of alignment with direction of travel > 2 > table end > > list of 1 items > (b) > Median Islands Blind pedestrians have difficulties interpreting traffic > clues at > medians and islands. Efforts should be made to permit the blind to cross in > one > continuous movement. In such cases, signal timing should be extended to > accommodate the full crossing. Divided streets with or without a pedestrian > signal > actuator in the median will be handled as a single crossing, with the width > measured > across the entire street. > list end > > table with 2 columns and 2 rows > Median Island > Points > Protruding into crosswalk, or cut through. > 2 > table end > > list of 1 items > (c) > Alignment of Crosswalk. A skewed crosswalk is one in which the direction of > travel > on the crosswalk differs from that on the approaching sidewalk. In this > context, > skew is not defined as the angle at which streets intersect. If a blind > pedestrian > walking a straight line from the approaching sidewalk is headed toward > parallel > traffic lanes, the crosswalk is skewed. If the pedestrian would end up > deviating from > the crosswalk, but would still arrive at the opposite corner, the crosswalk > is not > defined as skewed for this purpose. > list end > Skewed Crosswalk > 4 > (d) Distance to Alternative APS > > table with 2 columns and 6 rows > Distance to Alternative APS Crosswalk > Points > 1 block > 0 > 2 blocks > 0 > 3 blocks > 2 > 4 blocks > 2 > 5 or more blocks > 3 > table end > > (e) Requests for APS > New requests for APS will be recorded by the ADA Coordinator. Requestors > will be > asked to specify the reason for the request (e.g. proximity on a route to > school or work), > the difficulty they encounter at the intersection, and the time of day that > presents the > greatest difficulty. This information may be used by the Orientation and > Mobility > Evaluation team in assessing the intersection. > > table with 2 columns and 4 rows > APS Requests > Points > 1 request > 1 > 2 recent documented requests > 2 > 3 or more recent, documented requests > 3-4 > table end > > B) Pedestrian Usage > Blind pedestrians share many characteristics with the sighted population in > that they go to public > places, business, social, educational and medical facilities. At the same > time they have > special needs. For example, they may have a greater reliance on public > transportation than > sighted persons. Audible signals should be placed with the view of > improving mobility of blind > persons and making more facilities accessible to them. Proximity of signals > to these facilities > may assure a greater degree of utilization. > list of 1 items > 1. > Proximity to facilities for people who are blind or visually impaired: > This includes the > Department of Rehabilitation, Social Security offices, Valley Center for > the Blind and > other similar facilities. Special consideration may be given to senior > citizens complexes > or public housing facilities that have one or more blind or visually > impaired persons in > residence. Points are assigned on the basis of blocks or distance (1 block > equals 400 > feet) from proposed APS site to subject facility. The closer the two are, > the more points > are assigned. > list end > > table with 2 columns and 6 rows > Proximity > Points > 4 to 6 blocks > 2 > 3 blocks > 4 > 2 blocks > 6 > 1 block > 8 > At subject facility > 10 > table end > > 2. Proximity to key facilities utilized by all pedestrians (blind and > sighted.): This includes > medical, educational, social, recreational, shopping, commercial, business, > public and > governmental facilities. Points are assigned on the basis of blocks or > distance (1 block > equals 400 feet) from proposed APS site to subject facility. In case of > multiple facilities, > points will be assigned on the basis of the closest facility. > > table with 2 columns and 6 rows > Proximity > Points > 4 to 6 blocks > 1 > 3 blocks > 2 > 2 blocks > 3 > 1 block > 4 > At subject facility > 5 > table end > > 3. Access to public transit: Because blind and visually impaired persons > rely heavily upon > public transportation (bus or trolley), special consideration will be given > to those > proposed APS sites that have heavy general use, serves any of the > facilities indicated > above (Ref. B-1 and B-2), or serves as a transfer point and serves 2 or > more transit > routes within a one-block walking distance. > list of 1 items > a) > Number of transit stops and/or transit routes within one block of proposed > audible > signal site. > list end > > table with 2 columns and 6 rows > Number of Routes and Stops > Points > 1 – 2 routes and 1 stop > 1 > 3 or more routes and 1 stop > 2 > 1 – 2 routes and 2 stops > 3 > 3 or more routes and 2 stops > 4 > 2 or more routes and more than 2 stops > 5 > table end > > b) Passenger usage is based upon the total passengers boarding and > debarking each > day at a transit stop or transfer point within a one-block walking > distance. > > table with 2 columns and 7 rows > Passengers Boarding and Debarking Each Day > Points > 0 – 49 > 0 > 50-149 > 1 > 150-249 > 2 > 250-499 > 3 > 500-999 > 4 > 1,000 and over > 5 > table end > > C) Traffic Conditions > Vehicle volumes, traffic distribution, traffic congestion and flow > characteristics may assist or > impede the blind traveler in crossing an intersection. Blind pedestrians > can function best when > crossing signalized intersections that are at right angles with a moderate > but steady flow of > traffic through the intersection on each leg and with a minimum of turning > movements (right or > left turns). Traffic that stops on each leg during each signal cycle is > particularly helpful. Traffic > that is either light, or very heavy, or erratic in its flow makes it > difficult for the blind traveler to > pick up audible clues as to whether the light is red or green. In such > cases, audible signals will > assist in determining when it is possible to cross the street. Points may > be assigned by the > evaluation team based upon their perception of the relative importance of > each of these factors > (which are not necessarily dependent upon the total average daily traffic). > Candidate locations > may score up to a maximum of 5 points for each of the following factors > depending upon overall > traffic distribution. > > table with 3 columns and 6 rows > Heavy Traffic Flow > Vehicles per hour > Points > Approach traffic on all legs is in excess of 2,000 vehicles per hour during > any peak hour. > 2,000 – 2,999 > 1 > Approach traffic on all legs is in excess of 2,000 vehicles per hour during > any peak hour. > 3,000 – 3,999 > 2 > Approach traffic on all legs is in excess of 2,000 vehicles per hour during > any peak hour. > 4,000 – 4,999 > 3 > Approach traffic on all legs is in excess of 2,000 vehicles per hour during > any peak hour. > 5,000 – 5,999 > 4 > Approach traffic on all legs is in excess of 2,000 vehicles per hour during > any peak hour. > 6,000 and over > 5 > table end > > table with 3 columns and 7 rows > Off Peak Traffic Presence Direction 1 > Points > At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, > expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. > Constant (≥ 90%) > 0 > At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, > expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. > Heavy (70-80%) > 1 > At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, > expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. > Moderate (50-60%) > 2 > At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, > expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. > Light (30-40%) > 3 > At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, > expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. > Occasional (<30%) > 4 > At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, > expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. > None (no through lanes to create surge noise. > 5 > table end > > table with 3 columns and 7 rows > Off Peak Traffic Presence > Direction 2 > Points > At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, > expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. > Constant (≥ 90%) > 0 > At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, > expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. > Heavy (70-80%) > 1 > At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, > expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. > Moderate (50-60%) > 2 > At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, > expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. > Light (30-40%) > 3 > At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, > expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. > Occasional (<30%) > 4 > At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, > expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. > None (no through lanes to create surge noise. > 5 > table end > > E.) Mobility Evaluation > Each intersection being considered for audible signals should be evaluated > by a certified > orientation and mobility specialist. Based on the judgment of the O-M > specialist and the > evaluation team, additional points may be assigned based on observed or > special conditions not > adequately covered by any of the previous factors. This may include a heavy > right-turn volume, > right-turn island, right-turn signals, limited cone of “visibility”, etc. > Points > Mobility and miscellaneous factors > 0-15 > Signals without Pedestrian Actuations > Signalized intersections without pedestrian actuations may be considered > for evaluation under > this priority system, provided the following conditions are met: > list of 3 items > 1. > There must be a demonstrated problem or need that can be alleviated by the > installation of an audible signal in the form of a request from an > individual or group > that would use the audible signal. > 2. > The evaluation team must unanimously concur with the need. > 3. > Appropriate pedestrian actuation buttons and circuits must be provided as > part of the > APS installation. > list end > Accessible Signals at New Signal Installations > Accessible signals will be considered for new signal installation if it is > determined that > installation is warranted by the criteria established above. > Public Notice of Installation of Accessible Signals > The City recognizes that the installation of an APS may be of interest to > the community, > especially residents in the immediate vicinity of the candidate > intersection. In addition, research > has indicated that APS are more effectively used by blind and visually > impaired pedestrians if > they have notice of its location and a basic understanding of the type of > signal installed. > Accordingly, the Director of Public Works will provide a notice to > neighbors in a 350 feet radius > from the intersection of the proposed installation of an APS at that site, > and invite concerned > citizens to contact him in writing. In addition, the Department of Public > Works will issue press > releases and informing the public and organizations serving people with > disabilities, especially > visual impairments, of type and location of proposed and installed APS. > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b75205%40gmail.com > From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov Thu Mar 12 23:33:58 2009 From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 18:33:58 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] In-house litigation attorney position - Ref#17015731 Message-ID: Flagstar Bank’s Legal Department is seeking a litigation attorney in its Bellevue, Washington location. Flagstar Bank, FSB (FBC), publicly traded on the NYSE, is one of the nation’s largest mortgage lenders with banking branches in the Midwest and Southeast. RESPONSIBILITIES: *Managing and monitoring litigation, responding to discovery, reviewing pleadings, preparing for trial, and investigating issues pertaining to litigation; *Working closely with team members; *Retaining and working with outside counsel; *Initiating litigation and preparing and reviewing pleadings; *Working with outside investigators in initiating and/or defending litigation; *Interacting with other departments of the bank; *Supervising paralegals and other support staff. QUALIFICATIONS: *Unquestionable moral and ethical integrity; *Minimum of 4-6 years of solid litigation experience and/or in-house litigation experience performing and/or supervising full range of tasks from case inception through discovery process, trial, post-trial proceedings, and appeals; *Demonstrated ability to independently see projects through from inception to completion; *E-discovery case management experience; *Strong sense of accountability, taking ownership over projects and responsibilities and resolving issues proactively; *High level of accuracy, attention to detail, and excellent proofreading skills required; *Excellent oral and written communication skills, including the ability to communicate detailed and complex information to others; *Strong organizational and time management skills, including the ability to organize self and others; *Ability to manage multiple priorities and adjust to changing priorities in a professional manner; *Ability to work efficiently with attorneys and support staff located throughout the country; *Ability to work independently and within a team environment; *Strong service orientation, and an ability to establish and maintain effective working relationships with peers, other Bank departments, Bank management, and outside business partners; *Ability to work well under pressure, facilitate solutions, and meet deadlines and milestones. HOW TO APPLY Please apply on-line by visiting the Careers at Flagstar link at http://www.flagstar.com Flagstar Bank is an Equal Opportunity Employer ________________________________________ View and comment online: https://www.bigtent.com/group/forum/message/17015731 HINT: When replying by email, please do not include the original message. From bspiry at comcast.net Fri Mar 13 02:22:06 2009 From: bspiry at comcast.net (Bill Spiry) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 19:22:06 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target In-Reply-To: <547789.45557.qm@web36707.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <001401c9a189$3fa59ee0$bef0dca0$@net> <4E8742A18776454A880746AD18B966F5@colorado0f48f8> <5F60EFF2D5FD48A6A428F280C2AE8727@labarre> <547789.45557.qm@web36707.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <002e01c9a382$8265dec0$87319c40$@net> What kind of proposed resolution is involved here? Will it result in LSAC providing accessible materials in the immediate future?? -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of M BG Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2009 11:38 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target Thank you for the update.  What is the estimated time that this process it expected to take and at what point do you feel any claimants will be notified of disbursement? ________________________________ From: Scott C. LaBarre To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 3:35:26 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target Yes. It had been postponed and was rescheduled to yesterday.  Our local counsel attended the hearing and this afternoon Judge Patel issued an order granting final approval of the settlement and dismissing the claims.  The only remaining matter is that we are waiting for an opinion and ruling on attorneys fees. Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. LaBarre Law Offices P.C. 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 Denver, Colorado 80222 303 504-5979 (voice) 303 757-3640 (fax) slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) www.labarrelaw.com (website) CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carrie Ann Lucas" To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 1:58 PM Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > I think the final fairness hearing was supposed to happen yesterday.  Does > anyone know if it happened, and if so, what were the results? > > Carrie Ann Lucas > Director Center for Rights of Parents with Disabilities > Colorado Cross-Disability Coalition > 655 Broadway, Suite 775 > Denver, CO 80203 > 303.839.1775 (main and messages) > 303.839.0015 (direct and TTY) > 303.839.1782 (facsimile) > 800.817.1435 (main and messages) > 877.267.1621 (direct and TTY) > www.ccdconline.org > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/slabarre%40labarre law.com > _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/my5thattempt%40yah oo.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/bspiry%40comcast.n et From keith-vick at msn.com Thu Mar 12 23:42:37 2009 From: keith-vick at msn.com (Keith Vick) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 19:42:37 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Computer cursor - cross hair program In-Reply-To: <20090312104747.51092C51F4@mail1-backupmx.mn2.visi.com> References: <20090312104747.51092C51F4@mail1-backupmx.mn2.visi.com> Message-ID: Hi All, For those of us that have a narrow field of vision and don't necessarily require screen readers or enlarged text, I can recommend a Crosshair program by Michael Lin. The link is below. I has helped me tremendously. http://www.mlin.net/CrossHair.shtml Thanks, Keith Vick From jsorozco at gmail.com Fri Mar 13 00:19:38 2009 From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 20:19:38 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. lsac complaint In-Reply-To: <20090311175307.GE58098@yumi.bluecherry.net> Message-ID: <525537CFD0354718BFCFA328748D7DBD@Rufus> What standard was used to determine the accessibility of the web site? Joe Orozco -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of T. Joseph Carter Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2009 1:53 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. lsac complaint Hence the reason for the lawsuit. Actually, you may be able to send them to Scott if he is representing the NFB on this issue for use as evidence demonstrating that LSAC CAN make the documents accessible, but has chosen not to. I say may, because it seems like Copyright could not be a shield to prevent the court from seeing that the documents could be made accessible without substantial changes, if LSAC were to take minimal effort. I'd suggest asking someone qualified, as I'm 0L. ;) Joseph On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 01:45:10PM -0500, James Pepper wrote: >Well no wonder nothing becomes accessible. Stay with public domain >documents then. Oh well. > >James _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jsoroz co%40gmail.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3890 (20090226) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3890 (20090226) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From rumpole at roadrunner.com Thu Mar 12 21:44:31 2009 From: rumpole at roadrunner.com (Ross Doerr) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 17:44:31 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] College textbooks question References: <20090312104747.51092C51F4@mail1-backupmx.mn2.visi.com> Message-ID: <1BF7BC580A6848458EC7F6073968C91C@Rosslaptop> Hello Angie: thank you for the reference. I have been looking through the Instructional Materials Accessibility Act of 2002 provisions and am not finding the university level applicability I was hoping for, but it is nice to know that One state has takent he plunge in that direction. I will look into it. Thank you. Ross A. Doerr Esq. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Angie Matney" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Thursday, March 12, 2009 6:45 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] College textbooks question > Hi Ross, > > I don't remember the case you're referring to, but I think there is a New > York law concerning accessibility of post-secondary texts. The Cornell > disability services person mentioned it to me when I was trying to decide > where to go to law school. He > made it sound as though publishers must provide electronic copies if they > are requiested. > > Sorry I don't know more about this. > > Angie > > > > On Wed, 11 Mar 2009 18:21:47 -0400, Ross Doerr wrote: > >>Recently there was a case noted on this list that involved college level >>textbooks being in accessible format. >>If anyone recalls that case, could you please contact me off list? >>Any comments regarding college level textbook accessibility would be >>welcome as well. > >>Ross Doerr Esq. >>rumpole at roadrunner.com >>_______________________________________________ >>blindlaw mailing list >>blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>blindlaw: >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie%40mpmail.net > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rumpole%40adelphia.net From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov Thu Mar 12 22:33:56 2009 From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 17:33:56 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Puget Sound Clean Air Agency Posting - Ref#17029699 Message-ID: Puget Sound Clean Air Agency has an opening for an environmental/regulatory affairs attorney. http://www.pscleanair.org/about/employment.aspx From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Fri Mar 13 05:16:53 2009 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 22:16:53 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Fw: Any information is appreciated. In-Reply-To: <644B1987D48948378D3378088F70A3EA@deepa8b7ac5f2a> References: <644B1987D48948378D3378088F70A3EA@deepa8b7ac5f2a> Message-ID: In most counties there are legal aid programs that will assist low income people with family court matters. this party can also contact the county bar association. In California in the larger counties the county bar associations maintain a lawyer referral service where for a fee of about $30 here in Fresno County a person can get a consultation with a lawyer specializing in that particular area of law. After the consultation the party can negotiate arrangements with the lawyer if they are able to take a particular case. Unless a person has specialized training in law it is not recommended that a person represent themselves in a serious family matter such as abuse allegations and child custody. This is much different than something that is uncontested where there is essentially no dispute in question. While I do not specialize in working with family matters you can contact me off list for general information and I can research referrals for these resources. Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal 1237 P Street Fresno ca 93721 559-266-9237 ----- Original Message ----- From: "deepa goraya" To: "blindlaw" Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2009 3:29 PM Subject: [blindlaw] Fw: Any information is appreciated. > If anyone has any helpful info, please respond. > > Deepa > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Aziza C" > To: "David McClain" ; "deepa goraya" ; > "Frances Carrillo" ; "Greg Benavidez" > ; "Keyson, Terry" ; "Shane > Johnson" ; "slabarre" > > Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 10:10 PM > Subject: Any information is appreciated. > > >> Hi Everyone, >> Most of you know that my sister is going through an intense child >> custody battle with her X-husband. Her previous lawyer was charging >> her massive fees that he could never justify, and so she dismissed him >> from the case. She has been trying to locate another legal >> representative, and has been attempting to proceed with the case on >> her own. This has resulted in paperwork being filled out incorrectly, >> and court orders being sent to the wrong people. My sister really >> doesn't know how to represent herself. It has recently gotten worse >> when her x-husband sent out a complaint aledging that the accusations >> of abuse that were he was charged with almost ten years ago were >> untrue. My other sister and I were witnesses to this physical abuse, >> which he was charged with. He also stated that my sister abducted he >> child when my family relocated to Texas after the death of my father. >> He claims that my family told my nephew that his father left my >> sister for another woman, and that has been the reason for the >> disfunctional father son relationship. My nephew has complained about >> being physically abused while at his father's house, and I have been >> one of the people who filed a report to the police on one such >> occasion. My sister really needs assstance in how to respond to such >> fabrications, and how to proceed. She is driving herself crazy, and >> allowing her emotions to take over in court, which isn't helping her >> at all. >> If anyone has any information about lawyers in the Ventura/Oxnard Ca >> area that might be able to help her, please email me as soon as >> possible. >> Thank you. >> Aziza > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net From roddj12 at hotmail.com Fri Mar 13 06:31:57 2009 From: roddj12 at hotmail.com (Rod Alcidonis) Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 02:31:57 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. lsac complaint References: <001401c9a189$3fa59ee0$bef0dca0$@net> <000c01c9a2b5$35c39440$a14abcc0$@net> Message-ID: Well, academically speaking, the law suit could have prayed for a Temporary Restraining Order, or a preliminary Injunction against the LSAC for folks like you. Basically enjoined the LSAC from administering the exam until they make the changes. The only difficulty with that I think justifies the reason they probably did not pray for such a relief is that such a measure would cause too much harm to the public, I.E, the thousands of law students and schools who rely on the exam to make admissions decisions. Such an order while it would have forced the LSAC to make the changes much faster, it would have unreasonably halted the system for some times. If it were a class action with thousands of members, it probably would have been easier to argue, I think. Whether not passing an exam for the first time is considered irreparable harm is another question -- you can still make the argument under these circumstances. Rod Alcidonis Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009. Roger Williams University School of Law 10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 Bristol, RI 02809 Cell: 718-704-4651 Home: 401-824-8685 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Spiry" To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2009 9:52 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. lsac complaint I understand. What might be done to getLSAC to authorize use of this material as an accessible alternative to what they have to offer? I know NFB is sueing them, but in the mean time that leaves folks like me who don't have the Adobe skills you have, and facing the LSAT soon without accessible matter. Any ideas or suggestions? Thanks. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of James Pepper Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 10:43 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. lsac complaint Well Bill the content is copyrighted by LSAC so I am not sure I can send this to you. Perhaps some on this list can give that advice. I laid it out properly. James On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 9:05 AM, Bill Spiry wrote: > I would appreciate receiving this as well. Thanks. > bspiry at comcast.net > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of James Pepper > Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 1:46 AM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. lsac complaint > > Scott: I laid out the first section of the LSAT to be accessible and I > can > send you the files if you would like to see it. Also I made the form that > they use accessible so the blind can fill out the test without assistance. > This works with JAWS and Window Eyes and a combination of Adobe's Read out > Loud and Microsoft Narrator. My process works and if you need references > at > NFB, AFB and the AAPD I can send them to you. > > It took a while to figure out how they made thier pdfs and I know where > they > are making their mistakes. I can correct this problem. These PDFs are made > to work natively with JAWS and Adobe Reader and the other screen readers > without making any adjustments. They work with the default settings in > Adobe Reader. > > Also the forms can be digitally signed and saved and all that fancy stuff > that you expect with Adobe Acrobat Professional can be done with > Adobe Reader, versions 8 or 9 which is the free download from Adobe.com. > So > we can make the LSAT accessible to anyone with a PC running Windows XP Or > VIsta without any change of settings. This means the PC can be there for > the sighted and the blind, with equal access for all. > > Also since I labeled everything, it will be a lot quicker for you to fill > out this test! > > Sincerely, > > James G. Pepper > > > > On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 4:32 PM, Scott C. LaBarre > wrote: > > > Below I am sharing the complaint that we filed today in California Court. > > ************** > > LaurEnce W. paradis (California Bar No. 122336) > > > > Anna levine (California Bar No. 227881) > > > > Disability Rights Advocates > > > > 2001 Center Street, Third Floor > > > > Berkeley, California 94704 > > > > Telephone: (510) 665-8644 > > > > Facsimile: (510) 665-8511 > > > > TTY: (510) 665-8716 > > > > > > > > SCOTT LABARRE (to seek pro hac vice admission) > > > > LABARRE LAW OFFICES, P.C. > > > > 1660 S. Albion Street, Ste 918 > > > > Denver, Colo 80222 > > > > Telephone: (303) 504-5979 > > > > Fax: (303) 757-3640 > > > > > > > > DANIEL F. GOLDSTEIN (to seek pro hac vice admission) > > > > MEHGAN Sidhu (to seek pro hac vice admission) > > > > Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP > > > > 120 E. Baltimore St., Suite 1700 > > > > Baltimore, MD 21202 > > > > Telephone: (410) 962-1030 > > > > Fax: (410) 385-0869 > > > > > > > > SUPERIOR COURT OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA > > COUNTY OF ALAMEDA > > > > > > > > National Federation of the Blind, the National Federation of the > Blind > > of CALIFORNIA, and DEEPA GORAYA, > > > > > > > > Plaintiffs, > > > > v. > > > > LAW SCHOOL ADMISSION COUNCIL, INC., > > > > Defendant. > > > > > > > > Case No.: > > > > > > > > > > > > COMPLAINT FOR INJUNCTIVE AND DECLARATORY RELIEF FOR VIOLATIONS OF > THE > > CALIFORNIA DISABLED PERSONS ACT AND UNRUH CIVIL RIGHTS ACT > > > > > > > > > > INTRODUCTION > > > > Plaintiffs complain of Defendant and allege herein as follows: > > > > 1. This action, brought by the National Federation of the Blind, > > the National Federation of the Blind of California, and Deepa Goraya, > seeks > > to put an end to civil rights violations committed by defendant Law > School > > Admissions Council (hereafter "LSAC") against blind persons seeking to > take > > the LSAT exam and apply to law schools. Plaintiff Deepa Goraya, a blind > law > > school applicant in California, has been and is being denied equal access > to > > the accommodations, advantages, and facilities LSAC provides its > > non-disabled customers through http://www.lsac.org (hereafter "lsac.org" > > and "the website"). Plaintiffs National Federation of the Blind and the > > National Federation of the Blind of California have members who are > > similarly denied full and equal access to such accommodations, advantages > > and facilities. Lsac.org is currently the only place online where > > prospective law students can register for the Law School Admissions Test > > ("LSAT"), apply to law schools, and obtain official LSAT test preparation > > materials and information. Lsac.org contains multiple access barriers > that > > make it difficult if not impossible for blind law school applicants and > LSAT > > test takers to use the website and to obtain practice materials without > > sighted assistance. LSAC thus excludes the blind, including Ms. Goraya, > > from full and equal access to the accommodations, advantages, facilities, > > and privileges of lsac.org. > > > > JURISDICTION > > > > 2. This is a civil action under California's Disabled Persons Act > > (Cal. Civ. Code §§ 54, et seq.) and the Unruh Civil Rights Act (Cal. Civ. > > Code §§ 51, et seq.) and for declaratory relief. This Court has > > jurisdiction over the claims alleged herein pursuant to California Civil > > Code §§ 54, et seq. and California Civil Code §§ 51, et seq. and > California > > Code of Civil Procedure section 1060. > > > > 3. This Court has jurisdiction over LSAC because LSAC is a > > corporation authorized to do business in California and LSAC conducts > > substantial business in California. LSAC owns, maintains and operates its > > website, lsac.org, throughout California and in Alameda County. > > > > > > > > VENUE > > > > 4. Venue is proper in Alameda County because liability arises in > > part in Alameda County, where the National Federation of the Blind of > > California has its headquarters. LSAC has been and is committing the > acts > > alleged herein in Alameda County, has been and is violating the rights of > > patrons in Alameda County, and has been and is causing injury to patrons > in > > Alameda County. > > > > 5. Plaintiff Goraya is a California citizen and has experienced > > injury in California as a result of LSAC's inaccessible website and > practice > > materials. > > > > PARTIES > > > > 6. Plaintiff the National Federation of the Blind (hereafter > "NFB") > > is a national advocacy organization. The NFB, the oldest and largest > > national organization of blind persons, is a non-profit corporation duly > > organized under the laws of the District of Columbia with its principal > > place of business in Baltimore, Maryland. It has affiliates in all 50 > > states (including California) as well as Washington, D.C. and Puerto > Rico. > > The vast majority of the approximately 50,000 members are blind persons. > > The NFB is widely recognized by the public, Congress, executive agencies > of > > government and the courts as a collective and representative voice on > behalf > > of blind Americans and their families. The purpose of the NFB is to > promote > > the general welfare of the blind by (1) assisting the blind in their > efforts > > to integrate themselves into society on terms of equality and (2) > removing > > barriers and changing social attitudes, stereotypes and mistaken beliefs > > that sighted and blind persons hold concerning the limitations created by > > blindness resulting in the denial of opportunity to blind persons in > > virtually every sphere of life. The NFB and many of its members have > long > > been actively involved in promoting adaptive technology for the blind, so > > that blind persons can live and work independently in today's > > technology-dependent world. NFB members reside throughout the United > > States, including the state of California, and many of its members would > use > > the services of lsac.org if this website is made independently usable by > > the blind. > > > > 7. Plaintiff the National Federation of the Blind of California > > (hereafter "NFB of California") is a state affiliate of the National > > Federation of the Blind. NFB of California is a California corporation > and > > carries out NFB's objectives at the state level. It has local chapters > > throughout California, including Alameda County, and has its headquarters > in > > Fremont, California, in Alameda County. > > > > 8. Plaintiff Goraya is a member of the NFB and the NFB of > > California. She is blind and has been denied full and equal access to > the > > accommodations, advantages, facilities and privileges of lsac.org. > > > > 9. Defendant LSAC, is a non-profit corporation > > established to coordinate, facilitate, and enhance the law school > admissions > > process. LSAC owns, operates and/or maintains the website lsac.com, a > > public accommodation. Plaintiffs seek access to the services provided by > > LSAC in California through lsac.org. > > > > FACTS > > > > 10. Lsac.org is owned, controlled and/or operated by LSAC. > Lsac.org > > is a public accommodation that offers its visitors comprehensive services > > for applying to law school. The website functions as the official > > destination for guiding prospective law school applicants through the > > fundamental steps of applying to law school. Among its services, > lsac.orgoffers information about the LSAT and law school application > process, and > > extensive LSAT preparation materials and resources. Lsac.org also serves > as > > the exclusive online means for registering for the LSAT and applying to > > ABA-accredited law schools. > > > > 11. According to the website, lsac.org's online services enable > > prospective law students to do the following, among other things: > > > > a.. Register for the LSAT > > b.. Register for the LSDAS (Law School Data Assembly Service) > > c.. Purchase publications and test preparation materials > > d.. Have access to electronic applications for all ABA-approved law > > schools > > e.. Apply online to law schools > > f.. Register for law school forums > > g.. Have 24-hour file access > > 12. In addition to facilitating the LSAT and law school application > > processes, a significant portion of the lsac.org website is devoted to > > preparing students to take the LSAT. Among the services offered in that > > regard are online information guides that explain how to prepare for the > > LSAT and free, downloadable sample practice tests and test questions. > > Lsac.org also offers for a fee an online LSAT practice test tool and the > > opportunity to purchase more than 40 official LSAT practice tests. > > > > 13. While sighted visitors to lsac.org can easily obtain the benefits > and > > advantages offered by the website, blind individuals, including Ms. > Goraya, > > have been and are being denied access to lsac.org due to LSAC's failure > > and refusal to remove access barriers to lsac.org. Specifically, blind > > visitors to the website, including Ms. Goraya, cannot independently apply > to > > law school, register for the LSAT, or obtain in an accessible format the > > LSAT preparation materials and practice tests available through lsac.org > . > > > > 14. The blind access websites by using keyboards in conjunction > with > > screen-reading software. This software vocalizes or conveys to a > refreshable > > Braille display information that appears visually on a computer screen. > > Unless websites are designed to allow for use in this manner, blind > persons > > are unable to fully access the internet websites and the information, > > products and services contained therein. > > > > 15. There are well-established guidelines for making websites > > accessible to the blind. These guidelines have been in place for at > least > > several years and have been followed successfully by other public > > accommodations in making their online services accessible. The Web > > Accessibility Initiative (WAI), a project of the World Wide Web > Consortium, > > which is the leading standards organization for the Web, has developed > > guidelines for making information that is reached via the internet > > accessible. The federal government has also promulgated accessibility > > standards under Section 508 of the Rehabilitation Act. These guidelines > > have long been readily available via the internet so that any public > > accommodation could easily secure the necessary information. > > > > 16. Lsac.org contains a variety of access barriers that prevent > free > > and full use by blind persons using keyboards and screen reading > software. > > These barriers include but are not limited to: lack of or improperly > > labeled form controls; faulty keyboard navigation; and use of tables and > > charts that are not formatted for accessibility. Form controls allow > users > > to input data on online forms and applications. These controls must be > > coded and labeled to allow screen-access software to detect and vocalize > the > > requested information. Keyboard navigation refers to the ability to > > successfully navigate a website using keyboard commands, as opposed to > > requiring a mouse as the exclusive means for navigation of the site. > > Further, charts and tables must be formatted to work with screen-access > > software. Much of the lsac.org website, and in particular the online > law > > school application and LSAT registration sections of the website, lack > these > > fundamental accessibility components. As a result, blind visitors to the > > website cannot independently use those and other critical features. > > > > 17. Lsac.org's test preparation materials that are available on the > > website in Adobe Portable Document (PDF) format, are not properly > "tagged." > > This means that the headings, paragraphs, tables, image descriptions and > > form controls are not easily discernable to screen-reading software. As > a > > result, these materials are cumbersome, if not impossible, for a blind > > visitor to navigate. > > > > 18. Finally, lsac.org fails to offer LSAT practice tests, > available > > as part of its test preparation services, in formats accessible to the > > blind. While the sighted can easily use the website to obtain more than > 40 > > formerly administered LSAT practice tests, the website fails to offer the > > opportunity to purchase these practice materials in formats accessible to > > the blind, such as Braille or an accessible electronic format. > > > > 19. As a result of lsac.org's accessibility barriers, blind law > > school applicants, including Ms. Goraya, must go over extraordinary > hurdles > > to register and prepare for the LSAT and to apply to law school compared > to > > their sighted counterparts. After unsuccessfully attempting to use > > lsac.org independently to register for the LSAT and fill out her law > > school applications, for example, Plaintiff Goraya was forced to select > and > > rely upon a reader for over 50 hours simply to read aloud the content of > the > > website and complete her law school applications. Moreover, none of the > > LSAT practice materials, which include previously administered versions > of > > the test, were available to her in accessible electronic formats. > Lsac.org > > thus contains numerous access barriers which deny full and equal access > to > > Plaintiff, who would otherwise use the accommodations, advantages, and > > facilities of lsac.org. > > > > 20. On December 10, 2008, Plaintiff National Federation of the > Blind > > notified LSAC of the unlawful accessibility barriers on its website. > LSAC > > responded by setting up and then canceling a meeting with the NFB. On > > January 22, 2009, the NFB notified LSAC that it intended to pursue legal > > action against LSAC for the unlawful barriers on its website. > > > > FIRST CAUSE OF ACTION > > > > (Violation of Cal. Civ. Code §§ 54, et seq. - the Disabled Persons Act) > > > > 21. The allegations contained in the previous paragraphs are > > incorporated by reference. > > > > 22. The Disabled Persons Act ("DPA") requires that individuals with > > disabilities have "full and equal access, as other members of the general > > public, to accommodations, advantages, facilities, . . . and other places > to > > which the general public is invited, subject only to the conditions and > > limitations established by law, or state or federal regulation, and > > applicable alike to all persons." Cal. Civ. Code 54.1(a)(1). > > > > 23. Lsac.org, which is owned, operated and/or maintained by LSAC, > is > > an > > > > accommodation, advantage, facility and/or place to which the general > public > > is invited, as those terms are used in Cal. Civ. Code § 54.1(a)(1). > > > > 24. Defendant's conduct alleged herein violates the DPA, including > > Cal. Civ. Code § 54.1(a)(1), by denying the Plaintiffs full and equal > access > > to the accommodations, advantages and facilities of lsac.org. > > > > 25. As a result of Defendant's conduct, the NFB, the NFB of > > California, and Ms. Goraya are entitled to injunctive relief requiring > > Defendant to make lsac.org accessible to blind individuals, and to make > > the LSAT test practice materials offered to lsac.org patrons available > to > > blind people in an accessible format. > > > > SECOND CAUSE OF ACTION > > > > (Violation of Cal.Civ. Code §§ 51, et seq. - The Unruh Act) > > > > 26. The allegations contained in the previous paragraphs are > > incorporated by reference. > > > > 27. California's Unruh Act requires that individuals with > > disabilities have "full and equal accommodations, advantages, facilities, > > privileges or services in all business establishments of every kind > > whatsoever." Cal. Civ. Code § 51(b). > > > > 28. LSAC and Lsac.org are business establishments as that term is > > used in Cal. Civ. Code § 51(b) and lsac.org is an accommodation, > > advantage, facility, privilege and service of LSAC. > > > > 29. Defendant's conduct alleged herein violates the Unruh Act, > > including Cal. Civ. Code § 51(b), by denying Plaintiffs the full and > equal > > accommodations, advantages, facilities, privileges or services of LSAC > and > > lsac.org. > > > > 30. Defendant violated the Unruh Act intentionally and/or with > > deliberate indifference to the likelihood that it was violating the > rights > > of blind people and/or Defendant's violations were so intuitive or > obvious > > that noncompliance could not be other than intentional. > > > > 31. As a result of Defendant's conduct, the NFB, the NFB of > > California, and Ms. Goraya are entitled to injunctive relief requiring > > Defendant to make lsac.org accessible to blind individuals, and to make > > the LSAT test practice materials offered to lsac.org patrons available > to > > blind people in an accessible format. > > > > > > > > THIRD CAUSE OF ACTION > > > > (Declaratory Relief, Cal. Civ. Proc. § 1060 ) > > > > 32. The allegations contained in the previous paragraphs are > > incorporated by reference. > > > > 33. On information and belief, Defendants contend that they may > > lawfully deny Plaintiffs access to their website and its contents. > > Plaintiffs contend that lsac.org, which LSAC owns, operates, and/or > > controls, must provide blind patrons access to its website and website > > contents under California Civil Code §§ 54, et seq. and California Civil > > Code §§ 51, et seq., which prohibit discrimination against the blind. > > > > 34. A judicial declaration is necessary and appropriate at this > time > > in order that each of the parties may know their respective rights and > > duties and act accordingly. > > > > WHEREFORE, Plaintiffs request relief as set forth below. > > > > RELIEF REQUESTED > > > > WHEREFORE, Plaintiffs pray for judgment as follows: > > > > 1. An order enjoining LSAC from violating California > > Civil Code §§ 51, et seq. and §§ 54, et seq.; > > > > 2. A declaration that LSAC is owning, maintaining > and/or > > operating lsac.org in a manner which discriminates against the blind and > > which fails to provide access for persons with disabilities as required > by > > law; > > > > 3. Plaintiffs' reasonable attorneys' fees and costs as > > authorized by California California Civil Code §§ 54, et seq., California > > Civil Code §§ 51, et seq., and pursuant to California Code of Civil > > Procedure § 1021.5. > > > > 4. Such other and further relief as the Court deems > just > > and proper. > > > > > > > > DATED: > > DISABILITY RIGHTS ADVOCATES > > > > > > > > > By: > > ____________________________ > > > > > > Laurence W. Paradis > > > > > > > > > > > > Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. > > > > LaBarre Law Offices P.C. > > 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 > > Denver, Colorado 80222 > > 303 504-5979 (voice) > > 303 757-3640 (fax) > > slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) > > www.labarrelaw.com (website) > > > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and > > privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may > not > > read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this > message > > in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or > > slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. > This > > message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic > > Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. > > _______________________________________________ > > blindlaw mailing list > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > blindlaw: > > > > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b75205%40gmail.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/bspiry%40comcast.n > et > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b75205%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/bspiry%40comcast.n et _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail.com From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Fri Mar 13 07:03:55 2009 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 00:03:55 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] comments needed regarding policy for audiblepedestrian signals In-Reply-To: References: <46F35C9C59EA4BEA85A215EF8960813E@spike> Message-ID: <52F8ED176A924BB894D6663D0E67CFE0@spike> thanks. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Pepper" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Thursday, March 12, 2009 10:25 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] comments needed regarding policy for audiblepedestrian signals > Well if you are in London they have a lot of experience with this type of > thing. > > Well what they should be doing is placing the raised warnings actually > into > the roads for the crosswalks but the law is specific in only providing a > visual contrast, which is just painting lines into the road. Here is the > ADAAG link: > http://www.access-board.gov/adaag/html/adaag.htm#4.29 > > There is a man living near me whose dog is not that good and he has to > spend > a long time figuring out if he can safely walk across the street. His dog > leads him diagonally across the street, it is a disaster! He wants to be > independent and refuses to talk about it, but his dog is not that good. > > Toronto and London have accessible traffic lights, they will have the data > on this type of thing. > > James Pepper > > > On Wed, Mar 11, 2009 at 7:21 AM, wrote: > >> The City of Fresno is proposing the policy shown below to evaluate the >> installation of audible traffic signals. As this is outside my expertise >> I >> would appreciate any comments regarding this document. Please feel free >> to >> contact me off list if needed. >> Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal >> 1237 P Street >> Fresno ca 93721 >> 559-266-9237 >> >> >> APS Policy-03-09-LP .pdf >> DRAFT ACCESSIBLE PEDESTRIAN SIGNALS (APS) >> INTERSECTION EVALUATION PROCEDURE >> BACKGROUND >> Accessible Pedestrian Signals (APS), also known as audible pedestrian >> signals, are devices >> that communicate information about pedestrian timing in nonvisual format >> such as audible >> tones, verbal messages, and/or vibrating surfaces. APS are used in >> conjunction with standard >> pedestrian activated traffic signals to provide the following information >> to pedestrians: >> list of 4 items >>  >> Existence of and location of the pedestrian pushbutton >>  >> Beginning of the pedestrian WALK interval >>  >> Direction of the crosswalk and location of the destination curb >>  >> Clearance signal interval >> list end >> They are used to assist blind and visually impaired persons and other >> persons with disabilities >> of all ages to cross at designated streets and intersections. >> PURPOSE >> The purpose of this evaluation policy is to set forth factors to be used >> by >> the City of Fresno’s >> Public Works Department, in cooperation with the City of Fresno’s >> Disability Advisory >> Commission, in developing a priority listing of signalized intersection >> candidates to be retrofitted >> with audible devices that will provide guidance for the blind community >> and >> visually impaired >> persons and other persons with disabilities of all ages to cross certain >> streets. >> POLICY >> It is the policy of the City Council that the retrofitting of existing >> traffic signals with APS shall be >> based on factors established herein and that such measurements and >> computations as may be >> required in determining priority rating of candidate locations shall be >> the >> responsibility of the >> Public Works Department. >> It should be noted that in special situations, an APS should not be >> installed because of the >> adverse affect it could have on pedestrian safety as a result of the >> overall traffic circulation >> pattern of an area, or unusual geometric conditions where an APS would >> not >> provide the safety >> benefits necessary for the blind or visually impaired individuals to >> cross >> a street. It should also >> be noted that some traffic signals cannot be retrofitted with APS without >> major costly >> modifications. Retrofitting of traffic signals with APS shall be subject >> to >> approval by the City >> Engineer. >> Important: APS are utilized to help blind and visually impaired travelers >> recognize when a >> WALK signal is operating in a given direction. An APS may enhance the >> safety of blind >> travelers in two ways: >> list of 1 items >> 1. >> Lessens the chance of a blind or visually impaired pedestrian misjudging >> when the walk >> phase is operating, thereby lessening the chance of accidentally crossing >> against a >> signal. >> list end >> list of 1 items >> 2. >> Helps blind and visually impaired pedestrians recognize immediately when >> the walk >> phase begins, permitting them to cross the street in a timely fashion, >> thereby lessening >> the chance of being in the intersection when the signal changes. >> list end >> However, it is important to recognize that the APS does not and cannot >> assure the blind and >> visually impaired pedestrians that there will be no potential traffic >> conflicts while crossing when >> the APS is operating. In particular, the blind and visually impaired >> pedestrians should be aware >> of at least four possible conflicts. >> list of 4 items >> 1. >> Vehicles may be still clearing the intersection when the APS comes on. >> 2. >> Vehicles may fail to stop for the red light. This is particularly common >> for motorists >> attempting to enter on a yellow light. >> 3. >> Motorists may stop and make a right turn on red while watching traffic on >> their left but >> may fail to notice pedestrians on their right. >> 4. >> Vehicles may have right and left turns on the same phase as the >> pedestrian. >> list end >> Because of these potential conflicts, it is important that the blind or >> visually impaired traveler >> exercise due caution for his or her well-being when crossing a street, >> whether or not it is >> equipped with APS. It is especially important that blind and visually >> impaired travelers be >> properly trained by certified orientation and mobility specialists in >> safe >> travel techniques on the >> public right-of-way. >> EVALUATION PROCEDURE (See attached “Evaluation Form.”) >> The following basic considerations and evaluation factors shall be >> utilized >> to determine whether >> a location is eligible to be a candidate for APS and to determine its >> relative position on the >> priority list. Evaluation and scoring of factors will be conducted by an >> evaluation team consisting >> of a certified orientation-mobility specialist, a visually impaired/blind >> traveler and a traffic >> engineer. Candidate locations shall be requested by the City of Fresno >> Disability Advisory >> Commission, its working groups, and constituent requests to the ADA >> Coordinator’s office. >> Candidate locations will be evaluated by means of the sample evaluation >> sheet attached. >> I. BASIC CONSIDERATIONS: >> APS normally will be considered for installation only if the following >> conditions are met: >> list of 5 items >> A. >> Intersections must be signalized. >> B. >> Signals must be susceptible to retrofitting. >> C. >> Signals should be equipped with pedestrian signal actuations. (See also >> section on >> “Signals without Pedestrian Actuations.”) >> D. >> Location must be suitable to installation of audible signals, in terms of >> surrounding land >> use, noise level and neighborhood acceptance. >> E. >> There must be a demonstrated need for the audible signals in the form of >> a >> request from >> an individual or group that would use the audible signal. >> list end >> II EVALUATION FACTORS >> The following factors shall be used to establish a priority listing for >> potential audible traffic signal >> candidates. Candidates will be arranged in priority order of those with >> the >> highest total points >> (100 points maximum) on top and then in descending order. The scoring of >> factors will be >> conducted by an evaluation team consistent of a mobility specialist, a >> visually impaired/blind >> traveler and a traffic engineer. If the request for an APS was made by a >> deaf blind individual, or >> by representative of an organization serving deaf blind pedestrians in >> order to improve access in >> their geographic area, the evaluation team may also include a deaf blind >> rater. The decision >> whether to include a deaf blind rater will be made by the City Engineer. >> A) Intersection Safety >> 1. Accident Records: Past pedestrian accident experience at the >> intersection will >> be used as an indication of potential safety performance. Points will be >> based on >> pedestrian accidents reported by the City of Fresno’s Police Department. >> >> table with 3 columns and 6 rows >> Pedestrian Accidents >> Period >> Points >> 1 >> 4 years >> 1 >> 2 >> 4 years >> 2 >> 3 >> 4 years >> 3 >> 4 >> 4 years >> 4 >> 5 or more >> 4 years >> 5 >> table end >> >> 2. Intersection Configuration: The number of approaches to an >> intersection >> and >> their geometric configuration (offset, skewed, etc.) affect the ability >> of >> the blind >> and visually impaired persons crossing the roadway. In particular, >> traffic >> at 3-leg >> intersections tends not to provide adequate audible clues for the blind >> to >> permit >> them to effectively judge the signal phase. >> >> table with 2 columns and 6 rows >> Configuration >> Points >> 4-leg right angle intersection >> 1 >> 3-leg T-intersection >> 2 >> 3 or 4-leg skewed intersection >> 3 >> 4-leg offset intersection >> 4 >> Other complex or multiple leg intersections >> 5 >> table end >> >> Note: Intersections with 5 or more legs will require special design. >> 3. Intersection Signalization: Pre-timed intersections are the easiest >> for >> blind >> pedestrian because the phase interval is constant and can be observed >> over >> time. Vehicle actuated intersections are more difficult, because the >> pedestrian >> interval may be of different lengths or skipped all together. >> Split-phasing >> can >> provide confusing auditory information, as a traveler may interpret >> left-turning >> vehicles as a parallel traffic surge. >> >> table with 2 columns and 5 rows >> Signalization >> Points >> Pre-timed >> 0 >> Vehicle Actuated >> 2 >> Split Phasing >> 4 >> Exclusive Ped Phase (for future reference) >> 5 >> table end >> >> 4. >> Width of Crossing: >> Wider streets are more difficult for blind travelers to cross. If >> each leg of the intersection has a different width, points will be >> assigned >> on the >> basis of the widest street on which pedestrians are permitted to cross. >> Crossing >> width will be measured at the point pedestrians normally cross the >> street. >> Islands >> and medians will be included in the total crossing distance even if they >> are >> equipped with separate pedestrian signal actuators. These points will be >> apportioned based upon the greatest width of the crossing at the subject >> intersection. >> >> table with 2 columns and 7 rows >> Width of Crossing >> Points >> 40 feet or less >> 0 >> 40 to 59 feet >> 1 >> 60 to 79 feet >> 2 >> 80 to 99 feet >> 3 >> 100 -119 >> 4 >> 120 feet or more >> 5 >> table end >> >> 5. Vehicle Speed: The speed of approaching traffic reflects the ability >> of >> approaching traffic to stop for a pedestrian clearing the intersection as >> the lights >> change. Audible signals help blind pedestrians get a timely start at the >> beginning >> of the walk phase, thereby permitting clearing the intersection in a >> timely >> manner. >> Points are assigned on the basis of the 85 percentile speed on the >> fastest >> approach leg. More points are assigned on the basis of higher speeds. >> >> table with 2 columns and 6 rows >> Speed Range >> Points >> 0 – 25 mph >> 1 >> 26 – 30 mph >> 2 >> 31 – 35 mph >> 3 >> 36 – 40 mph >> 4 >> 41 mph or over >> 5 >> table end >> >> B. Crosswalk Characteristics >> These points will be apportioned based upon the highest-scoring >> characteristics of any of the >> crosswalks at the intersection. For example, if any of the crosswalks at >> an >> intersection have a >> median island protruding into an intersection, then the intersection will >> receive the two points >> allotted for that characteristic. >> list of 1 items >> (a) >> Location of Pedestrian Push Button. Pedestrian push buttons that are too >> far from >> the intersection can present difficulties for blind pedestrians. They may >> make it >> harder for an individual to use the button as a cue for alignment and/or >> to >> push the >> button and cross in the same cycle. >> list end >> >> table with 2 columns and 4 rows >> Location of Pedestrian Actuations >> Points >> One or more ped pushbuttons located > 10 ft from curb >> 1 >> One or more ped pushbuttons located > 5 ft from crosswalk extended >> 2 >> One or more ped pushbuttons out of alignment with direction of travel >> 2 >> table end >> >> list of 1 items >> (b) >> Median Islands Blind pedestrians have difficulties interpreting traffic >> clues at >> medians and islands. Efforts should be made to permit the blind to cross >> in >> one >> continuous movement. In such cases, signal timing should be extended to >> accommodate the full crossing. Divided streets with or without a >> pedestrian >> signal >> actuator in the median will be handled as a single crossing, with the >> width >> measured >> across the entire street. >> list end >> >> table with 2 columns and 2 rows >> Median Island >> Points >> Protruding into crosswalk, or cut through. >> 2 >> table end >> >> list of 1 items >> (c) >> Alignment of Crosswalk. A skewed crosswalk is one in which the direction >> of >> travel >> on the crosswalk differs from that on the approaching sidewalk. In this >> context, >> skew is not defined as the angle at which streets intersect. If a blind >> pedestrian >> walking a straight line from the approaching sidewalk is headed toward >> parallel >> traffic lanes, the crosswalk is skewed. If the pedestrian would end up >> deviating from >> the crosswalk, but would still arrive at the opposite corner, the >> crosswalk >> is not >> defined as skewed for this purpose. >> list end >> Skewed Crosswalk >> 4 >> (d) Distance to Alternative APS >> >> table with 2 columns and 6 rows >> Distance to Alternative APS Crosswalk >> Points >> 1 block >> 0 >> 2 blocks >> 0 >> 3 blocks >> 2 >> 4 blocks >> 2 >> 5 or more blocks >> 3 >> table end >> >> (e) Requests for APS >> New requests for APS will be recorded by the ADA Coordinator. Requestors >> will be >> asked to specify the reason for the request (e.g. proximity on a route to >> school or work), >> the difficulty they encounter at the intersection, and the time of day >> that >> presents the >> greatest difficulty. This information may be used by the Orientation and >> Mobility >> Evaluation team in assessing the intersection. >> >> table with 2 columns and 4 rows >> APS Requests >> Points >> 1 request >> 1 >> 2 recent documented requests >> 2 >> 3 or more recent, documented requests >> 3-4 >> table end >> >> B) Pedestrian Usage >> Blind pedestrians share many characteristics with the sighted population >> in >> that they go to public >> places, business, social, educational and medical facilities. At the same >> time they have >> special needs. For example, they may have a greater reliance on public >> transportation than >> sighted persons. Audible signals should be placed with the view of >> improving mobility of blind >> persons and making more facilities accessible to them. Proximity of >> signals >> to these facilities >> may assure a greater degree of utilization. >> list of 1 items >> 1. >> Proximity to facilities for people who are blind or visually impaired: >> This includes the >> Department of Rehabilitation, Social Security offices, Valley Center for >> the Blind and >> other similar facilities. Special consideration may be given to senior >> citizens complexes >> or public housing facilities that have one or more blind or visually >> impaired persons in >> residence. Points are assigned on the basis of blocks or distance (1 >> block >> equals 400 >> feet) from proposed APS site to subject facility. The closer the two are, >> the more points >> are assigned. >> list end >> >> table with 2 columns and 6 rows >> Proximity >> Points >> 4 to 6 blocks >> 2 >> 3 blocks >> 4 >> 2 blocks >> 6 >> 1 block >> 8 >> At subject facility >> 10 >> table end >> >> 2. Proximity to key facilities utilized by all pedestrians (blind and >> sighted.): This includes >> medical, educational, social, recreational, shopping, commercial, >> business, >> public and >> governmental facilities. Points are assigned on the basis of blocks or >> distance (1 block >> equals 400 feet) from proposed APS site to subject facility. In case of >> multiple facilities, >> points will be assigned on the basis of the closest facility. >> >> table with 2 columns and 6 rows >> Proximity >> Points >> 4 to 6 blocks >> 1 >> 3 blocks >> 2 >> 2 blocks >> 3 >> 1 block >> 4 >> At subject facility >> 5 >> table end >> >> 3. Access to public transit: Because blind and visually impaired persons >> rely heavily upon >> public transportation (bus or trolley), special consideration will be >> given >> to those >> proposed APS sites that have heavy general use, serves any of the >> facilities indicated >> above (Ref. B-1 and B-2), or serves as a transfer point and serves 2 or >> more transit >> routes within a one-block walking distance. >> list of 1 items >> a) >> Number of transit stops and/or transit routes within one block of >> proposed >> audible >> signal site. >> list end >> >> table with 2 columns and 6 rows >> Number of Routes and Stops >> Points >> 1 – 2 routes and 1 stop >> 1 >> 3 or more routes and 1 stop >> 2 >> 1 – 2 routes and 2 stops >> 3 >> 3 or more routes and 2 stops >> 4 >> 2 or more routes and more than 2 stops >> 5 >> table end >> >> b) Passenger usage is based upon the total passengers boarding and >> debarking each >> day at a transit stop or transfer point within a one-block walking >> distance. >> >> table with 2 columns and 7 rows >> Passengers Boarding and Debarking Each Day >> Points >> 0 – 49 >> 0 >> 50-149 >> 1 >> 150-249 >> 2 >> 250-499 >> 3 >> 500-999 >> 4 >> 1,000 and over >> 5 >> table end >> >> C) Traffic Conditions >> Vehicle volumes, traffic distribution, traffic congestion and flow >> characteristics may assist or >> impede the blind traveler in crossing an intersection. Blind pedestrians >> can function best when >> crossing signalized intersections that are at right angles with a >> moderate >> but steady flow of >> traffic through the intersection on each leg and with a minimum of >> turning >> movements (right or >> left turns). Traffic that stops on each leg during each signal cycle is >> particularly helpful. Traffic >> that is either light, or very heavy, or erratic in its flow makes it >> difficult for the blind traveler to >> pick up audible clues as to whether the light is red or green. In such >> cases, audible signals will >> assist in determining when it is possible to cross the street. Points may >> be assigned by the >> evaluation team based upon their perception of the relative importance of >> each of these factors >> (which are not necessarily dependent upon the total average daily >> traffic). >> Candidate locations >> may score up to a maximum of 5 points for each of the following factors >> depending upon overall >> traffic distribution. >> >> table with 3 columns and 6 rows >> Heavy Traffic Flow >> Vehicles per hour >> Points >> Approach traffic on all legs is in excess of 2,000 vehicles per hour >> during >> any peak hour. >> 2,000 – 2,999 >> 1 >> Approach traffic on all legs is in excess of 2,000 vehicles per hour >> during >> any peak hour. >> 3,000 – 3,999 >> 2 >> Approach traffic on all legs is in excess of 2,000 vehicles per hour >> during >> any peak hour. >> 4,000 – 4,999 >> 3 >> Approach traffic on all legs is in excess of 2,000 vehicles per hour >> during >> any peak hour. >> 5,000 – 5,999 >> 4 >> Approach traffic on all legs is in excess of 2,000 vehicles per hour >> during >> any peak hour. >> 6,000 and over >> 5 >> table end >> >> table with 3 columns and 7 rows >> Off Peak Traffic Presence Direction 1 >> Points >> At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, >> expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. >> Constant (≥ 90%) >> 0 >> At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, >> expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. >> Heavy (70-80%) >> 1 >> At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, >> expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. >> Moderate (50-60%) >> 2 >> At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, >> expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. >> Light (30-40%) >> 3 >> At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, >> expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. >> Occasional (<30%) >> 4 >> At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, >> expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. >> None (no through lanes to create surge noise. >> 5 >> table end >> >> table with 3 columns and 7 rows >> Off Peak Traffic Presence >> Direction 2 >> Points >> At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, >> expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. >> Constant (≥ 90%) >> 0 >> At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, >> expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. >> Heavy (70-80%) >> 1 >> At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, >> expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. >> Moderate (50-60%) >> 2 >> At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, >> expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. >> Light (30-40%) >> 3 >> At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, >> expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. >> Occasional (<30%) >> 4 >> At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, >> expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. >> None (no through lanes to create surge noise. >> 5 >> table end >> >> E.) Mobility Evaluation >> Each intersection being considered for audible signals should be >> evaluated >> by a certified >> orientation and mobility specialist. Based on the judgment of the O-M >> specialist and the >> evaluation team, additional points may be assigned based on observed or >> special conditions not >> adequately covered by any of the previous factors. This may include a >> heavy >> right-turn volume, >> right-turn island, right-turn signals, limited cone of “visibility”, etc. >> Points >> Mobility and miscellaneous factors >> 0-15 >> Signals without Pedestrian Actuations >> Signalized intersections without pedestrian actuations may be considered >> for evaluation under >> this priority system, provided the following conditions are met: >> list of 3 items >> 1. >> There must be a demonstrated problem or need that can be alleviated by >> the >> installation of an audible signal in the form of a request from an >> individual or group >> that would use the audible signal. >> 2. >> The evaluation team must unanimously concur with the need. >> 3. >> Appropriate pedestrian actuation buttons and circuits must be provided as >> part of the >> APS installation. >> list end >> Accessible Signals at New Signal Installations >> Accessible signals will be considered for new signal installation if it >> is >> determined that >> installation is warranted by the criteria established above. >> Public Notice of Installation of Accessible Signals >> The City recognizes that the installation of an APS may be of interest to >> the community, >> especially residents in the immediate vicinity of the candidate >> intersection. In addition, research >> has indicated that APS are more effectively used by blind and visually >> impaired pedestrians if >> they have notice of its location and a basic understanding of the type of >> signal installed. >> Accordingly, the Director of Public Works will provide a notice to >> neighbors in a 350 feet radius >> from the intersection of the proposed installation of an APS at that >> site, >> and invite concerned >> citizens to contact him in writing. In addition, the Department of Public >> Works will issue press >> releases and informing the public and organizations serving people with >> disabilities, especially >> visual impairments, of type and location of proposed and installed APS. >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b75205%40gmail.com >> > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net > From JMcCarthy at nfb.org Fri Mar 13 13:58:47 2009 From: JMcCarthy at nfb.org (McCarthy, Jim) Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 09:58:47 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] comments needed regarding policy for audible pedestriansignals In-Reply-To: <46F35C9C59EA4BEA85A215EF8960813E@spike> Message-ID: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6B26D659@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local> Chuck, I am happy to talk through this with you off line if you would prefer. Nevertheless, I will offer my immediate thoughts after reading. It is a little unclear what the goal is. This process is to prioritize intersections giving those most in need APS first. I am convinced that there are several signalized (light controlled) intersections that do not need these devices. However, this might be a way to provide APS at all signalized intersections in time and that may be what the Access-Board will come to require. I think it is good to have as a part of the evaluation team a blind person and a deaf blind person when the requester is deaf blind or serves that community. I have always found it problematic though when cities say that the centers blind people use should have some super priority. I lived in Portland Oregon and the west part of the city was hilly with curvy streets. Many were not straight and some had high speed traffic. However, the audible traffic signals were almost never in those neighborhoods (the better ones I might add) because it was assumed that blind people did not frequent them. To me that is a ghettoizing assumption that results from this process. I do think that public transit centers and such places should have greater attention paid though and this document would do that. Finally, in the main, I think that the traffic and street configuration factors are as they should be. I think that the locations with the greatest need based on these factors should be the first to receive signals. The Fresno process is similar to others I have seen, though I would prefer that the evaluation group use the factors and evaluate all signalized intersections using the factors more than whether and how many requests were made. Jim McCarthy -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2009 8:21 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: [blindlaw] comments needed regarding policy for audible pedestriansignals The City of Fresno is proposing the policy shown below to evaluate the installation of audible traffic signals. As this is outside my expertise I would appreciate any comments regarding this document. Please feel free to contact me off list if needed. Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal 1237 P Street Fresno ca 93721 559-266-9237 APS Policy-03-09-LP .pdf DRAFT ACCESSIBLE PEDESTRIAN SIGNALS (APS) INTERSECTION EVALUATION PROCEDURE BACKGROUND Accessible Pedestrian Signals (APS), also known as audible pedestrian signals, are devices that communicate information about pedestrian timing in nonvisual format such as audible tones, verbal messages, and/or vibrating surfaces. APS are used in conjunction with standard pedestrian activated traffic signals to provide the following information to pedestrians: list of 4 items · Existence of and location of the pedestrian pushbutton · Beginning of the pedestrian WALK interval · Direction of the crosswalk and location of the destination curb · Clearance signal interval list end They are used to assist blind and visually impaired persons and other persons with disabilities of all ages to cross at designated streets and intersections. PURPOSE The purpose of this evaluation policy is to set forth factors to be used by the City of Fresno's Public Works Department, in cooperation with the City of Fresno's Disability Advisory Commission, in developing a priority listing of signalized intersection candidates to be retrofitted with audible devices that will provide guidance for the blind community and visually impaired persons and other persons with disabilities of all ages to cross certain streets. POLICY It is the policy of the City Council that the retrofitting of existing traffic signals with APS shall be based on factors established herein and that such measurements and computations as may be required in determining priority rating of candidate locations shall be the responsibility of the Public Works Department. It should be noted that in special situations, an APS should not be installed because of the adverse affect it could have on pedestrian safety as a result of the overall traffic circulation pattern of an area, or unusual geometric conditions where an APS would not provide the safety benefits necessary for the blind or visually impaired individuals to cross a street. It should also be noted that some traffic signals cannot be retrofitted with APS without major costly modifications. Retrofitting of traffic signals with APS shall be subject to approval by the City Engineer. Important: APS are utilized to help blind and visually impaired travelers recognize when a WALK signal is operating in a given direction. An APS may enhance the safety of blind travelers in two ways: list of 1 items 1. Lessens the chance of a blind or visually impaired pedestrian misjudging when the walk phase is operating, thereby lessening the chance of accidentally crossing against a signal. list end list of 1 items 2. Helps blind and visually impaired pedestrians recognize immediately when the walk phase begins, permitting them to cross the street in a timely fashion, thereby lessening the chance of being in the intersection when the signal changes. list end However, it is important to recognize that the APS does not and cannot assure the blind and visually impaired pedestrians that there will be no potential traffic conflicts while crossing when the APS is operating. In particular, the blind and visually impaired pedestrians should be aware of at least four possible conflicts. list of 4 items 1. Vehicles may be still clearing the intersection when the APS comes on. 2. Vehicles may fail to stop for the red light. This is particularly common for motorists attempting to enter on a yellow light. 3. Motorists may stop and make a right turn on red while watching traffic on their left but may fail to notice pedestrians on their right. 4. Vehicles may have right and left turns on the same phase as the pedestrian. list end Because of these potential conflicts, it is important that the blind or visually impaired traveler exercise due caution for his or her well-being when crossing a street, whether or not it is equipped with APS. It is especially important that blind and visually impaired travelers be properly trained by certified orientation and mobility specialists in safe travel techniques on the public right-of-way. EVALUATION PROCEDURE (See attached "Evaluation Form.") The following basic considerations and evaluation factors shall be utilized to determine whether a location is eligible to be a candidate for APS and to determine its relative position on the priority list. Evaluation and scoring of factors will be conducted by an evaluation team consisting of a certified orientation-mobility specialist, a visually impaired/blind traveler and a traffic engineer. Candidate locations shall be requested by the City of Fresno Disability Advisory Commission, its working groups, and constituent requests to the ADA Coordinator's office. Candidate locations will be evaluated by means of the sample evaluation sheet attached. I. BASIC CONSIDERATIONS: APS normally will be considered for installation only if the following conditions are met: list of 5 items A. Intersections must be signalized. B. Signals must be susceptible to retrofitting. C. Signals should be equipped with pedestrian signal actuations. (See also section on "Signals without Pedestrian Actuations.") D. Location must be suitable to installation of audible signals, in terms of surrounding land use, noise level and neighborhood acceptance. E. There must be a demonstrated need for the audible signals in the form of a request from an individual or group that would use the audible signal. list end II EVALUATION FACTORS The following factors shall be used to establish a priority listing for potential audible traffic signal candidates. Candidates will be arranged in priority order of those with the highest total points (100 points maximum) on top and then in descending order. The scoring of factors will be conducted by an evaluation team consistent of a mobility specialist, a visually impaired/blind traveler and a traffic engineer. If the request for an APS was made by a deaf blind individual, or by representative of an organization serving deaf blind pedestrians in order to improve access in their geographic area, the evaluation team may also include a deaf blind rater. The decision whether to include a deaf blind rater will be made by the City Engineer. A) Intersection Safety 1. Accident Records: Past pedestrian accident experience at the intersection will be used as an indication of potential safety performance. Points will be based on pedestrian accidents reported by the City of Fresno's Police Department. table with 3 columns and 6 rows Pedestrian Accidents Period Points 1 4 years 1 2 4 years 2 3 4 years 3 4 4 years 4 5 or more 4 years 5 table end 2. Intersection Configuration: The number of approaches to an intersection and their geometric configuration (offset, skewed, etc.) affect the ability of the blind and visually impaired persons crossing the roadway. In particular, traffic at 3-leg intersections tends not to provide adequate audible clues for the blind to permit them to effectively judge the signal phase. table with 2 columns and 6 rows Configuration Points 4-leg right angle intersection 1 3-leg T-intersection 2 3 or 4-leg skewed intersection 3 4-leg offset intersection 4 Other complex or multiple leg intersections 5 table end Note: Intersections with 5 or more legs will require special design. 3. Intersection Signalization: Pre-timed intersections are the easiest for blind pedestrian because the phase interval is constant and can be observed over time. Vehicle actuated intersections are more difficult, because the pedestrian interval may be of different lengths or skipped all together. Split-phasing can provide confusing auditory information, as a traveler may interpret left-turning vehicles as a parallel traffic surge. table with 2 columns and 5 rows Signalization Points Pre-timed 0 Vehicle Actuated 2 Split Phasing 4 Exclusive Ped Phase (for future reference) 5 table end 4. Width of Crossing: Wider streets are more difficult for blind travelers to cross. If each leg of the intersection has a different width, points will be assigned on the basis of the widest street on which pedestrians are permitted to cross. Crossing width will be measured at the point pedestrians normally cross the street. Islands and medians will be included in the total crossing distance even if they are equipped with separate pedestrian signal actuators. These points will be apportioned based upon the greatest width of the crossing at the subject intersection. table with 2 columns and 7 rows Width of Crossing Points 40 feet or less 0 40 to 59 feet 1 60 to 79 feet 2 80 to 99 feet 3 100 -119 4 120 feet or more 5 table end 5. Vehicle Speed: The speed of approaching traffic reflects the ability of approaching traffic to stop for a pedestrian clearing the intersection as the lights change. Audible signals help blind pedestrians get a timely start at the beginning of the walk phase, thereby permitting clearing the intersection in a timely manner. Points are assigned on the basis of the 85 percentile speed on the fastest approach leg. More points are assigned on the basis of higher speeds. table with 2 columns and 6 rows Speed Range Points 0 - 25 mph 1 26 - 30 mph 2 31 - 35 mph 3 36 - 40 mph 4 41 mph or over 5 table end B. Crosswalk Characteristics These points will be apportioned based upon the highest-scoring characteristics of any of the crosswalks at the intersection. For example, if any of the crosswalks at an intersection have a median island protruding into an intersection, then the intersection will receive the two points allotted for that characteristic. list of 1 items (a) Location of Pedestrian Push Button. Pedestrian push buttons that are too far from the intersection can present difficulties for blind pedestrians. They may make it harder for an individual to use the button as a cue for alignment and/or to push the button and cross in the same cycle. list end table with 2 columns and 4 rows Location of Pedestrian Actuations Points One or more ped pushbuttons located > 10 ft from curb 1 One or more ped pushbuttons located > 5 ft from crosswalk extended 2 One or more ped pushbuttons out of alignment with direction of travel 2 table end list of 1 items (b) Median Islands Blind pedestrians have difficulties interpreting traffic clues at medians and islands. Efforts should be made to permit the blind to cross in one continuous movement. In such cases, signal timing should be extended to accommodate the full crossing. Divided streets with or without a pedestrian signal actuator in the median will be handled as a single crossing, with the width measured across the entire street. list end table with 2 columns and 2 rows Median Island Points Protruding into crosswalk, or cut through. 2 table end list of 1 items (c) Alignment of Crosswalk. A skewed crosswalk is one in which the direction of travel on the crosswalk differs from that on the approaching sidewalk. In this context, skew is not defined as the angle at which streets intersect. If a blind pedestrian walking a straight line from the approaching sidewalk is headed toward parallel traffic lanes, the crosswalk is skewed. If the pedestrian would end up deviating from the crosswalk, but would still arrive at the opposite corner, the crosswalk is not defined as skewed for this purpose. list end Skewed Crosswalk 4 (d) Distance to Alternative APS table with 2 columns and 6 rows Distance to Alternative APS Crosswalk Points 1 block 0 2 blocks 0 3 blocks 2 4 blocks 2 5 or more blocks 3 table end (e) Requests for APS New requests for APS will be recorded by the ADA Coordinator. Requestors will be asked to specify the reason for the request (e.g. proximity on a route to school or work), the difficulty they encounter at the intersection, and the time of day that presents the greatest difficulty. This information may be used by the Orientation and Mobility Evaluation team in assessing the intersection. table with 2 columns and 4 rows APS Requests Points 1 request 1 2 recent documented requests 2 3 or more recent, documented requests 3-4 table end B) Pedestrian Usage Blind pedestrians share many characteristics with the sighted population in that they go to public places, business, social, educational and medical facilities. At the same time they have special needs. For example, they may have a greater reliance on public transportation than sighted persons. Audible signals should be placed with the view of improving mobility of blind persons and making more facilities accessible to them. Proximity of signals to these facilities may assure a greater degree of utilization. list of 1 items 1. Proximity to facilities for people who are blind or visually impaired: This includes the Department of Rehabilitation, Social Security offices, Valley Center for the Blind and other similar facilities. Special consideration may be given to senior citizens complexes or public housing facilities that have one or more blind or visually impaired persons in residence. Points are assigned on the basis of blocks or distance (1 block equals 400 feet) from proposed APS site to subject facility. The closer the two are, the more points are assigned. list end table with 2 columns and 6 rows Proximity Points 4 to 6 blocks 2 3 blocks 4 2 blocks 6 1 block 8 At subject facility 10 table end 2. Proximity to key facilities utilized by all pedestrians (blind and sighted.): This includes medical, educational, social, recreational, shopping, commercial, business, public and governmental facilities. Points are assigned on the basis of blocks or distance (1 block equals 400 feet) from proposed APS site to subject facility. In case of multiple facilities, points will be assigned on the basis of the closest facility. table with 2 columns and 6 rows Proximity Points 4 to 6 blocks 1 3 blocks 2 2 blocks 3 1 block 4 At subject facility 5 table end 3. Access to public transit: Because blind and visually impaired persons rely heavily upon public transportation (bus or trolley), special consideration will be given to those proposed APS sites that have heavy general use, serves any of the facilities indicated above (Ref. B-1 and B-2), or serves as a transfer point and serves 2 or more transit routes within a one-block walking distance. list of 1 items a) Number of transit stops and/or transit routes within one block of proposed audible signal site. list end table with 2 columns and 6 rows Number of Routes and Stops Points 1 - 2 routes and 1 stop 1 3 or more routes and 1 stop 2 1 - 2 routes and 2 stops 3 3 or more routes and 2 stops 4 2 or more routes and more than 2 stops 5 table end b) Passenger usage is based upon the total passengers boarding and debarking each day at a transit stop or transfer point within a one-block walking distance. table with 2 columns and 7 rows Passengers Boarding and Debarking Each Day Points 0 - 49 0 50-149 1 150-249 2 250-499 3 500-999 4 1,000 and over 5 table end C) Traffic Conditions Vehicle volumes, traffic distribution, traffic congestion and flow characteristics may assist or impede the blind traveler in crossing an intersection. Blind pedestrians can function best when crossing signalized intersections that are at right angles with a moderate but steady flow of traffic through the intersection on each leg and with a minimum of turning movements (right or left turns). Traffic that stops on each leg during each signal cycle is particularly helpful. Traffic that is either light, or very heavy, or erratic in its flow makes it difficult for the blind traveler to pick up audible clues as to whether the light is red or green. In such cases, audible signals will assist in determining when it is possible to cross the street. Points may be assigned by the evaluation team based upon their perception of the relative importance of each of these factors (which are not necessarily dependent upon the total average daily traffic). Candidate locations may score up to a maximum of 5 points for each of the following factors depending upon overall traffic distribution. table with 3 columns and 6 rows Heavy Traffic Flow Vehicles per hour Points Approach traffic on all legs is in excess of 2,000 vehicles per hour during any peak hour. 2,000 - 2,999 1 Approach traffic on all legs is in excess of 2,000 vehicles per hour during any peak hour. 3,000 - 3,999 2 Approach traffic on all legs is in excess of 2,000 vehicles per hour during any peak hour. 4,000 - 4,999 3 Approach traffic on all legs is in excess of 2,000 vehicles per hour during any peak hour. 5,000 - 5,999 4 Approach traffic on all legs is in excess of 2,000 vehicles per hour during any peak hour. 6,000 and over 5 table end table with 3 columns and 7 rows Off Peak Traffic Presence Direction 1 Points At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. Constant (≥ 90%) 0 At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. Heavy (70-80%) 1 At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. Moderate (50-60%) 2 At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. Light (30-40%) 3 At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. Occasional (<30%) 4 At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. None (no through lanes to create surge noise. 5 table end table with 3 columns and 7 rows Off Peak Traffic Presence Direction 2 Points At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. Constant (≥ 90%) 0 At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. Heavy (70-80%) 1 At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. Moderate (50-60%) 2 At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. Light (30-40%) 3 At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. Occasional (<30%) 4 At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. None (no through lanes to create surge noise. 5 table end E.) Mobility Evaluation Each intersection being considered for audible signals should be evaluated by a certified orientation and mobility specialist. Based on the judgment of the O-M specialist and the evaluation team, additional points may be assigned based on observed or special conditions not adequately covered by any of the previous factors. This may include a heavy right-turn volume, right-turn island, right-turn signals, limited cone of "visibility", etc. Points Mobility and miscellaneous factors 0-15 Signals without Pedestrian Actuations Signalized intersections without pedestrian actuations may be considered for evaluation under this priority system, provided the following conditions are met: list of 3 items 1. There must be a demonstrated problem or need that can be alleviated by the installation of an audible signal in the form of a request from an individual or group that would use the audible signal. 2. The evaluation team must unanimously concur with the need. 3. Appropriate pedestrian actuation buttons and circuits must be provided as part of the APS installation. list end Accessible Signals at New Signal Installations Accessible signals will be considered for new signal installation if it is determined that installation is warranted by the criteria established above. Public Notice of Installation of Accessible Signals The City recognizes that the installation of an APS may be of interest to the community, especially residents in the immediate vicinity of the candidate intersection. In addition, research has indicated that APS are more effectively used by blind and visually impaired pedestrians if they have notice of its location and a basic understanding of the type of signal installed. Accordingly, the Director of Public Works will provide a notice to neighbors in a 350 feet radius from the intersection of the proposed installation of an APS at that site, and invite concerned citizens to contact him in writing. In addition, the Department of Public Works will issue press releases and informing the public and organizations serving people with disabilities, especially visual impairments, of type and location of proposed and installed APS. _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jmccarthy%40nfb.org From b75205 at gmail.com Fri Mar 13 15:47:47 2009 From: b75205 at gmail.com (James Pepper) Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 10:47:47 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] College textbooks question In-Reply-To: <1BF7BC580A6848458EC7F6073968C91C@Rosslaptop> References: <20090312104747.51092C51F4@mail1-backupmx.mn2.visi.com> <1BF7BC580A6848458EC7F6073968C91C@Rosslaptop> Message-ID: Colleges are required to have all access specifically in the Rehabilitation Act of 1973 and all of their federal money that they have received since 1973 acts as a lein against their assets requiring them to comply with the Act. This also includes all money in Federal Student Loans, Presidential Librairies, Grants, etc. They are extremely exposed by this law and so they should be providing alternative means for you to access content. If they are not, they would have to figure out how to operate without all of the assets since 1973. You might want to look into this law. They actually wrote a whole section of the law just for post secondary schools and they have been on the hook for this since 1973. Also they are required to do this in employment and in access to educational materials, so always check to see if they have done this in their employment division. James Pepper On Thu, Mar 12, 2009 at 4:44 PM, Ross Doerr wrote: > Hello Angie: > thank you for the reference. > I have been looking through the Instructional Materials Accessibility Act > of 2002 provisions and am not finding the university level applicability I > was hoping for, but it is nice to know that One state has takent he plunge > in that direction. I will look into it. > Thank you. > Ross A. Doerr Esq. > > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Angie Matney" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Thursday, March 12, 2009 6:45 AM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] College textbooks question > > > Hi Ross, >> >> I don't remember the case you're referring to, but I think there is a New >> York law concerning accessibility of post-secondary texts. The Cornell >> disability services person mentioned it to me when I was trying to decide >> where to go to law school. He >> made it sound as though publishers must provide electronic copies if they >> are requiested. >> >> Sorry I don't know more about this. >> >> Angie >> >> >> >> On Wed, 11 Mar 2009 18:21:47 -0400, Ross Doerr wrote: >> >> Recently there was a case noted on this list that involved college level >>> textbooks being in accessible format. >>> If anyone recalls that case, could you please contact me off list? >>> Any comments regarding college level textbook accessibility would be >>> welcome as well. >>> >> >> Ross Doerr Esq. >>> rumpole at roadrunner.com >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie%40mpmail.net >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rumpole%40adelphia.net >> > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b75205%40gmail.com > From carter.tjoseph at gmail.com Fri Mar 13 18:36:11 2009 From: carter.tjoseph at gmail.com (T. Joseph Carter) Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 11:36:11 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target In-Reply-To: <002e01c9a382$8265dec0$87319c40$@net> References: <4E8742A18776454A880746AD18B966F5@colorado0f48f8> <5F60EFF2D5FD48A6A428F280C2AE8727@labarre> <547789.45557.qm@web36707.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <002e01c9a382$8265dec0$87319c40$@net> Message-ID: <20090313183610.GA66589@yumi.bluecherry.net> I think you missed the subject change. This is about the Target case. Nothing's been settled regarding LSAC yet. Joseph On Thu, Mar 12, 2009 at 07:22:06PM -0700, Bill Spiry wrote: >What kind of proposed resolution is involved here? Will it result in LSAC >providing accessible materials in the immediate future?? From ms at browngold.com Fri Mar 13 18:51:55 2009 From: ms at browngold.com (Mehgan Sidhu) Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 14:51:55 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Introduction Message-ID: Hello Listserv Members, I just joined the listserv so that I can share relevant information on this forum. I'm an attorney at Brown, Goldstein & Levy and one of several attorneys at the firm who represents the National Federation of the Blind on access technology and other litigation matters. I've been with the firm for about two-and-a-half years and have worked on the Target case, the Apple iTunes settlement, and other website, technology and education cases. Recently, I've been working with Scott LaBarre, Disability Rights Advocates, and others on the listserv in the action against the LSAC's inaccessible website and have been working more generally on issues related to access to e-books for the NFB. I look forward to sharing information that may be useful, particularly related to the access technology issues. Best, Mehgan Mehgan Sidhu Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP 120 East Baltimore Street, Suite 1700 Baltimore, Maryland 21202 410-962-1030 x1324 410-385-0869 (fax) ms at browngold.com www.browngold.com Confidentiality Notice This e-mail may contain confidential information that may also be legally privileged and that is intended only for the use of the addressee(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient or an authorized agent of the recipient, please be advised that any dissemination or copying of this e-mail, or taking of any action in reliance on the information contained herein, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify me immediately by use of the reply button, and then delete the e-mail from your system. Thank you! From ms at browngold.com Fri Mar 13 19:20:32 2009 From: ms at browngold.com (Mehgan Sidhu) Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 15:20:32 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target Message-ID: To answer the recent questions posted about the Target case, the final settlement hearing took place on March 9th. I understand from our counsel in California, Larry Paradis of DRA and Josh Konecky, that there were no objectors and the Judge was pleased with the resolution of the case. The settlement is not fully "final" until the time for any appeals has run - which is about 30 days. Given there were no objectors, it is highly unlikely that any appeals will be filed. The judge has not yet made a ruling on attorneys fees, but that will not hold up enforcement of the settlement. As for disbursements, assuming there are no appeals, the claims administer has 45 days from the final approval date to disburse funds to claimants. I do not know the final tally of approved claimants, though I think there were several hundred. I will pass that information along when I have it. We will now be working on enforcing the settlement commitments that Target made with respect to the accessibility of the website. Mehgan Sidhu Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP 120 East Baltimore Street, Suite 1700 Baltimore, Maryland 21202 410-962-1030 x1324 410-385-0869 (fax) ms at browngold.com www.browngold.com Confidentiality Notice This e-mail may contain confidential information that may also be legally privileged and that is intended only for the use of the addressee(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient or an authorized agent of the recipient, please be advised that any dissemination or copying of this e-mail, or taking of any action in reliance on the information contained herein, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify me immediately by use of the reply button, and then delete the e-mail from your system. Thank you! From JMcCarthy at nfb.org Fri Mar 13 19:23:38 2009 From: JMcCarthy at nfb.org (McCarthy, Jim) Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 15:23:38 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Introduction In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6B26D662@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local> Mehgan, Welcome! You will certainly bring valuable discourse to our list. Jim McCarthy -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Mehgan Sidhu Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 2:52 PM To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org Subject: [blindlaw] Introduction Hello Listserv Members, I just joined the listserv so that I can share relevant information on this forum. I'm an attorney at Brown, Goldstein & Levy and one of several attorneys at the firm who represents the National Federation of the Blind on access technology and other litigation matters. I've been with the firm for about two-and-a-half years and have worked on the Target case, the Apple iTunes settlement, and other website, technology and education cases. Recently, I've been working with Scott LaBarre, Disability Rights Advocates, and others on the listserv in the action against the LSAC's inaccessible website and have been working more generally on issues related to access to e-books for the NFB. I look forward to sharing information that may be useful, particularly related to the access technology issues. Best, Mehgan Mehgan Sidhu Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP 120 East Baltimore Street, Suite 1700 Baltimore, Maryland 21202 410-962-1030 x1324 410-385-0869 (fax) ms at browngold.com www.browngold.com Confidentiality Notice This e-mail may contain confidential information that may also be legally privileged and that is intended only for the use of the addressee(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient or an authorized agent of the recipient, please be advised that any dissemination or copying of this e-mail, or taking of any action in reliance on the information contained herein, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify me immediately by use of the reply button, and then delete the e-mail from your system. Thank you! _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jmccarthy%40nf b.org From stevep.deeley at insightbb.com Fri Mar 13 20:31:00 2009 From: stevep.deeley at insightbb.com (Steve P. Deeley) Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 16:31:00 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <549FC55C53E54BA5814FA71C231CE71F@StevePC> This is ridiculous! How were these people damaged? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mehgan Sidhu" To: Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 3:20 PM Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > To answer the recent questions posted about the Target case, the final > settlement hearing took place on March 9th. I understand from our counsel > in California, Larry Paradis of DRA and Josh Konecky, that there were no > objectors and the Judge was pleased with the resolution of the case. The > settlement is not fully "final" until the time for any appeals has run - > which is about 30 days. Given there were no objectors, it is highly > unlikely that any appeals will be filed. The judge has not yet made a > ruling on attorneys fees, but that will not hold up enforcement of the > settlement. > > > > As for disbursements, assuming there are no appeals, the claims administer > has 45 days from the final approval date to disburse funds to claimants. > I do not know the final tally of approved claimants, though I think there > were several hundred. I will pass that information along when I have it. > > > > We will now be working on enforcing the settlement commitments that Target > made with respect to the accessibility of the website. > > > Mehgan Sidhu > Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP > 120 East Baltimore Street, Suite 1700 > Baltimore, Maryland 21202 > 410-962-1030 x1324 > 410-385-0869 (fax) > ms at browngold.com > www.browngold.com > > Confidentiality Notice > > This e-mail may contain confidential information that may also be legally > privileged and that is intended only for the use of the addressee(s) named > above. If you are not the intended recipient or an authorized agent of > the recipient, please be advised that any dissemination or copying of this > e-mail, or taking of any action in reliance on the information contained > herein, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in > error, please notify me immediately by use of the reply button, and then > delete the e-mail from your system. Thank you! > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release Date: 03/13/09 05:59:00 From ms at browngold.com Fri Mar 13 21:02:52 2009 From: ms at browngold.com (Mehgan Sidhu) Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 17:02:52 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target In-Reply-To: <549FC55C53E54BA5814FA71C231CE71F@StevePC> References: <549FC55C53E54BA5814FA71C231CE71F@StevePC> Message-ID: Steve, In addition to the ADA claim, the lawsuit was brought under California's Unruh Act and Disabled Person's Act, both of which provide for minimum statutory damages ($4,000 and $1,000 per violation, respectively). Under the agreement, members of the California class who are legally blind, had attempted to use Target.com between February 7, 2003 and December 9, 2008, and experienced significant barriers were eligible for damages of up to $3,500 per violation for a maximum of 2 violations. A copy of the settlement is available at the following site: http://www.nfbtargetlawsuit.com/final_settlement.html Mehgan Sidhu Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP 120 East Baltimore Street, Suite 1700 Baltimore, Maryland 21202 410-962-1030 x1324 410-385-0869 (fax) ms at browngold.com www.browngold.com Confidentiality Notice This e-mail may contain confidential information that may also be legally privileged and that is intended only for the use of the addressee(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient or an authorized agent of the recipient, please be advised that any dissemination or copying of this e-mail, or taking of any action in reliance on the information contained herein, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify me immediately by use of the reply button, and then delete the e-mail from your system. Thank you! -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 4:31 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target This is ridiculous! How were these people damaged? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mehgan Sidhu" To: Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 3:20 PM Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > To answer the recent questions posted about the Target case, the final > settlement hearing took place on March 9th. I understand from our counsel > in California, Larry Paradis of DRA and Josh Konecky, that there were no > objectors and the Judge was pleased with the resolution of the case. The > settlement is not fully "final" until the time for any appeals has run - > which is about 30 days. Given there were no objectors, it is highly > unlikely that any appeals will be filed. The judge has not yet made a > ruling on attorneys fees, but that will not hold up enforcement of the > settlement. > > > > As for disbursements, assuming there are no appeals, the claims administer > has 45 days from the final approval date to disburse funds to claimants. > I do not know the final tally of approved claimants, though I think there > were several hundred. I will pass that information along when I have it. > > > > We will now be working on enforcing the settlement commitments that Target > made with respect to the accessibility of the website. > > > Mehgan Sidhu > Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP > 120 East Baltimore Street, Suite 1700 > Baltimore, Maryland 21202 > 410-962-1030 x1324 > 410-385-0869 (fax) > ms at browngold.com > www.browngold.com > > Confidentiality Notice > > This e-mail may contain confidential information that may also be legally > privileged and that is intended only for the use of the addressee(s) named > above. If you are not the intended recipient or an authorized agent of > the recipient, please be advised that any dissemination or copying of this > e-mail, or taking of any action in reliance on the information contained > herein, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in > error, please notify me immediately by use of the reply button, and then > delete the e-mail from your system. Thank you! > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release Date: 03/13/09 05:59:00 _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ms%40browngold.com From my5thattempt at yahoo.com Fri Mar 13 21:22:26 2009 From: my5thattempt at yahoo.com (M BG) Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 14:22:26 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target References: Message-ID: <35605.8224.qm@web36707.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Ms. Sidhu, Thank you for the update and keeping those of us in California informed. Misty ________________________________ From: Mehgan Sidhu To: "blindlaw at nfbnet.org" Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 12:20:32 PM Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target To answer the recent questions posted about the Target case, the final settlement hearing took place on March 9th.  I understand from our counsel in California, Larry Paradis of DRA and Josh Konecky, that there were no objectors and the Judge was pleased with the resolution of the case.  The settlement is not fully "final" until the time for any appeals has run - which is about 30 days.  Given there were no objectors, it is highly unlikely that any appeals will be filed.  The judge has not yet made a ruling on attorneys fees, but that will not hold up enforcement of the settlement. As for disbursements, assuming there are no appeals, the claims administer has 45 days from the final approval date to disburse funds to claimants.  I do not know the final tally of approved claimants, though I think there were several hundred.  I will pass that information along when I have it. We will now be working on enforcing the settlement commitments that Target made with respect to the accessibility of the website. Mehgan Sidhu Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP 120 East Baltimore Street, Suite 1700 Baltimore, Maryland 21202 410-962-1030 x1324 410-385-0869 (fax) ms at browngold.com www.browngold.com Confidentiality Notice This e-mail may contain confidential information that may also be legally privileged and that is intended only for the use of the addressee(s) named above.  If you are not the intended recipient or an authorized agent of the recipient, please be advised that any dissemination or copying of this e-mail, or taking of any action in reliance on the information contained herein, is strictly prohibited.  If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify me immediately by use of the reply button, and then delete the e-mail from your system.  Thank you! _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/my5thattempt%40yahoo.com From slabarre at labarrelaw.com Fri Mar 13 21:38:51 2009 From: slabarre at labarrelaw.com (Scott C. LaBarre) Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 15:38:51 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target References: <549FC55C53E54BA5814FA71C231CE71F@StevePC> Message-ID: Violation of civil rights has long been recognized as a form of compensible legal damage as well it should be. Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. LaBarre Law Offices P.C. 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 Denver, Colorado 80222 303 504-5979 (voice) 303 757-3640 (fax) slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) www.labarrelaw.com (website) CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. Deeley" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 2:31 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > This is ridiculous! How were these people damaged? > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mehgan Sidhu" > To: > Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 3:20 PM > Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > >> To answer the recent questions posted about the Target case, the final >> settlement hearing took place on March 9th. I understand from our >> counsel in California, Larry Paradis of DRA and Josh Konecky, that there >> were no objectors and the Judge was pleased with the resolution of the >> case. The settlement is not fully "final" until the time for any >> appeals has run - which is about 30 days. Given there were no objectors, >> it is highly unlikely that any appeals will be filed. The judge has not >> yet made a ruling on attorneys fees, but that will not hold up >> enforcement of the settlement. >> >> >> >> As for disbursements, assuming there are no appeals, the claims >> administer has 45 days from the final approval date to disburse funds to >> claimants. I do not know the final tally of approved claimants, though I >> think there were several hundred. I will pass that information along >> when I have it. >> >> >> >> We will now be working on enforcing the settlement commitments that >> Target made with respect to the accessibility of the website. >> >> >> Mehgan Sidhu >> Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP >> 120 East Baltimore Street, Suite 1700 >> Baltimore, Maryland 21202 >> 410-962-1030 x1324 >> 410-385-0869 (fax) >> ms at browngold.com >> www.browngold.com >> >> Confidentiality Notice >> >> This e-mail may contain confidential information that may also be legally >> privileged and that is intended only for the use of the addressee(s) >> named above. If you are not the intended recipient or an authorized >> agent of the recipient, please be advised that any dissemination or >> copying of this e-mail, or taking of any action in reliance on the >> information contained herein, is strictly prohibited. If you have >> received this e-mail in error, please notify me immediately by use of the >> reply button, and then delete the e-mail from your system. Thank you! >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release Date: 03/13/09 > 05:59:00 > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/slabarre%40labarrelaw.com > From slabarre at labarrelaw.com Fri Mar 13 21:51:39 2009 From: slabarre at labarrelaw.com (Scott C. LaBarre) Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 15:51:39 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] Introduction References: Message-ID: <5AA77F8E31F74CECB341D611142A624F@labarre> Welcome Mehgan. You make a great addition to the group! Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. LaBarre Law Offices P.C. 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 Denver, Colorado 80222 303 504-5979 (voice) 303 757-3640 (fax) slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) www.labarrelaw.com (website) CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mehgan Sidhu" To: Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 12:51 PM Subject: [blindlaw] Introduction > Hello Listserv Members, > > I just joined the listserv so that I can share relevant information on > this forum. I'm an attorney at Brown, Goldstein & Levy and one of several > attorneys at the firm who represents the National Federation of the Blind > on access technology and other litigation matters. I've been with the > firm for about two-and-a-half years and have worked on the Target case, > the Apple iTunes settlement, and other website, technology and education > cases. Recently, I've been working with Scott LaBarre, Disability Rights > Advocates, and others on the listserv in the action against the LSAC's > inaccessible website and have been working more generally on issues > related to access to e-books for the NFB. I look forward to sharing > information that may be useful, particularly related to the access > technology issues. > > Best, > Mehgan > > Mehgan Sidhu > Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP > 120 East Baltimore Street, Suite 1700 > Baltimore, Maryland 21202 > 410-962-1030 x1324 > 410-385-0869 (fax) > ms at browngold.com > www.browngold.com > > Confidentiality Notice > > This e-mail may contain confidential information that may also be legally > privileged and that is intended only for the use of the addressee(s) named > above. If you are not the intended recipient or an authorized agent of > the recipient, please be advised that any dissemination or copying of this > e-mail, or taking of any action in reliance on the information contained > herein, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in > error, please notify me immediately by use of the reply button, and then > delete the e-mail from your system. Thank you! > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/slabarre%40labarrelaw.com > From b75205 at gmail.com Sat Mar 14 00:47:14 2009 From: b75205 at gmail.com (James Pepper) Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 19:47:14 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. lsac complaint In-Reply-To: References: <001401c9a189$3fa59ee0$bef0dca0$@net> <000c01c9a2b5$35c39440$a14abcc0$@net> Message-ID: Well here is that sample. It is not the LSAT but it shows what can be done. You should use the latest version of Adobe Reader to read documents, versions 8 or 9 because earlier versions have problems with how they lay out form fields. There are no form fields in this sample but it shows what can be done with a test. James Pepper On Fri, Mar 13, 2009 at 1:31 AM, Rod Alcidonis wrote: > Well, academically speaking, the law suit could have prayed for a Temporary > Restraining Order, or a preliminary Injunction against the LSAC for folks > like you. Basically enjoined the LSAC from administering the exam until they > make the changes. The only difficulty with that I think justifies the reason > they probably did not pray for such a relief is that such a measure would > cause too much harm to the public, I.E, the thousands of law students and > schools who rely on the exam to make admissions decisions. Such an order > while it would have forced the LSAC to make the changes much faster, it > would have unreasonably halted the system for some times. If it were a class > action with thousands of members, it probably would have been easier to > argue, I think. Whether not passing an exam for the first time is considered > irreparable harm is another question -- you can still make the argument > under these circumstances. > > Rod Alcidonis > Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009. > Roger Williams University School of Law > 10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 > Bristol, RI 02809 > Cell: 718-704-4651 > Home: 401-824-8685 > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Spiry" > To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" > Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2009 9:52 PM > > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. lsac complaint > > > I understand. What might be done to getLSAC to authorize use of this > material as an accessible alternative to what they have to offer? I know > NFB > is sueing them, but in the mean time that leaves folks like me who don't > have the Adobe skills you have, and facing the LSAT soon without > accessible > matter. Any ideas or suggestions? > > Thanks. > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of James Pepper > Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 10:43 AM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. lsac complaint > > Well Bill the content is copyrighted by LSAC so I am not sure I can send > this to you. Perhaps some on this list can give that advice. I laid it out > properly. > > James > > On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 9:05 AM, Bill Spiry wrote: > > I would appreciate receiving this as well. Thanks. >> bspiry at comcast.net >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf Of James Pepper >> Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 1:46 AM >> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. lsac complaint >> >> Scott: I laid out the first section of the LSAT to be accessible and I >> can >> send you the files if you would like to see it. Also I made the form that >> they use accessible so the blind can fill out the test without assistance. >> This works with JAWS and Window Eyes and a combination of Adobe's Read out >> Loud and Microsoft Narrator. My process works and if you need references >> at >> NFB, AFB and the AAPD I can send them to you. >> >> It took a while to figure out how they made thier pdfs and I know where >> they >> are making their mistakes. I can correct this problem. These PDFs are >> > made > >> to work natively with JAWS and Adobe Reader and the other screen readers >> without making any adjustments. They work with the default settings in >> Adobe Reader. >> >> Also the forms can be digitally signed and saved and all that fancy stuff >> that you expect with Adobe Acrobat Professional can be done with >> Adobe Reader, versions 8 or 9 which is the free download from Adobe.com. >> So >> we can make the LSAT accessible to anyone with a PC running Windows XP Or >> VIsta without any change of settings. This means the PC can be there for >> the sighted and the blind, with equal access for all. >> >> Also since I labeled everything, it will be a lot quicker for you to fill >> out this test! >> >> Sincerely, >> >> James G. Pepper >> >> >> >> On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 4:32 PM, Scott C. LaBarre >> wrote: >> >> > Below I am sharing the complaint that we filed today in California >> > Court. > >> > ************** >> > LaurEnce W. paradis (California Bar No. 122336) >> > >> > Anna levine (California Bar No. 227881) >> > >> > Disability Rights Advocates >> > >> > 2001 Center Street, Third Floor >> > >> > Berkeley, California 94704 >> > >> > Telephone: (510) 665-8644 >> > >> > Facsimile: (510) 665-8511 >> > >> > TTY: (510) 665-8716 >> > >> > >> > >> > SCOTT LABARRE (to seek pro hac vice admission) >> > >> > LABARRE LAW OFFICES, P.C. >> > >> > 1660 S. Albion Street, Ste 918 >> > >> > Denver, Colo 80222 >> > >> > Telephone: (303) 504-5979 >> > >> > Fax: (303) 757-3640 >> > >> > >> > >> > DANIEL F. GOLDSTEIN (to seek pro hac vice admission) >> > >> > MEHGAN Sidhu (to seek pro hac vice admission) >> > >> > Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP >> > >> > 120 E. Baltimore St., Suite 1700 >> > >> > Baltimore, MD 21202 >> > >> > Telephone: (410) 962-1030 >> > >> > Fax: (410) 385-0869 >> > >> > >> > >> > SUPERIOR COURT OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA >> > COUNTY OF ALAMEDA >> > >> > >> > >> > National Federation of the Blind, the National Federation of the >> Blind >> > of CALIFORNIA, and DEEPA GORAYA, >> > >> > >> > >> > Plaintiffs, >> > >> > v. >> > >> > LAW SCHOOL ADMISSION COUNCIL, INC., >> > >> > Defendant. >> > >> > >> > >> > Case No.: >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > COMPLAINT FOR INJUNCTIVE AND DECLARATORY RELIEF FOR VIOLATIONS OF >> THE >> > CALIFORNIA DISABLED PERSONS ACT AND UNRUH CIVIL RIGHTS ACT >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > INTRODUCTION >> > >> > Plaintiffs complain of Defendant and allege herein as follows: >> > >> > 1. This action, brought by the National Federation of the Blind, >> > the National Federation of the Blind of California, and Deepa Goraya, >> seeks >> > to put an end to civil rights violations committed by defendant Law >> School >> > Admissions Council (hereafter "LSAC") against blind persons seeking to >> take >> > the LSAT exam and apply to law schools. Plaintiff Deepa Goraya, a blind >> law >> > school applicant in California, has been and is being denied equal >> > access > >> to >> > the accommodations, advantages, and facilities LSAC provides its >> > non-disabled customers through http://www.lsac.org (hereafter "lsac.org >> " >> > and "the website"). Plaintiffs National Federation of the Blind and the >> > National Federation of the Blind of California have members who are >> > similarly denied full and equal access to such accommodations, >> > advantages > >> > and facilities. Lsac.org is currently the only place online where >> > prospective law students can register for the Law School Admissions Test >> > ("LSAT"), apply to law schools, and obtain official LSAT test >> > preparation > >> > materials and information. Lsac.org contains multiple access barriers >> that >> > make it difficult if not impossible for blind law school applicants and >> LSAT >> > test takers to use the website and to obtain practice materials without >> > sighted assistance. LSAC thus excludes the blind, including Ms. Goraya, >> > from full and equal access to the accommodations, advantages, >> > facilities, > >> > and privileges of lsac.org. >> > >> > JURISDICTION >> > >> > 2. This is a civil action under California's Disabled Persons >> > Act > >> > (Cal. Civ. Code §§ 54, et seq.) and the Unruh Civil Rights Act (Cal. >> > Civ. > >> > Code §§ 51, et seq.) and for declaratory relief. This Court has >> > jurisdiction over the claims alleged herein pursuant to California Civil >> > Code §§ 54, et seq. and California Civil Code §§ 51, et seq. and >> California >> > Code of Civil Procedure section 1060. >> > >> > 3. This Court has jurisdiction over LSAC because LSAC is a >> > corporation authorized to do business in California and LSAC conducts >> > substantial business in California. LSAC owns, maintains and operates >> > its > >> > website, lsac.org, throughout California and in Alameda County. >> > >> > >> > >> > VENUE >> > >> > 4. Venue is proper in Alameda County because liability arises in >> > part in Alameda County, where the National Federation of the Blind of >> > California has its headquarters. LSAC has been and is committing the >> acts >> > alleged herein in Alameda County, has been and is violating the rights >> > of > >> > patrons in Alameda County, and has been and is causing injury to patrons >> in >> > Alameda County. >> > >> > 5. Plaintiff Goraya is a California citizen and has experienced >> > injury in California as a result of LSAC's inaccessible website and >> practice >> > materials. >> > >> > PARTIES >> > >> > 6. Plaintiff the National Federation of the Blind (hereafter >> "NFB") >> > is a national advocacy organization. The NFB, the oldest and largest >> > national organization of blind persons, is a non-profit corporation duly >> > organized under the laws of the District of Columbia with its principal >> > place of business in Baltimore, Maryland. It has affiliates in all 50 >> > states (including California) as well as Washington, D.C. and Puerto >> Rico. >> > The vast majority of the approximately 50,000 members are blind >> > persons. > >> > The NFB is widely recognized by the public, Congress, executive >> > agencies > >> of >> > government and the courts as a collective and representative voice on >> behalf >> > of blind Americans and their families. The purpose of the NFB is to >> promote >> > the general welfare of the blind by (1) assisting the blind in their >> efforts >> > to integrate themselves into society on terms of equality and (2) >> removing >> > barriers and changing social attitudes, stereotypes and mistaken beliefs >> > that sighted and blind persons hold concerning the limitations created >> > by > >> > blindness resulting in the denial of opportunity to blind persons in >> > virtually every sphere of life. The NFB and many of its members have >> long >> > been actively involved in promoting adaptive technology for the blind, >> > so > >> > that blind persons can live and work independently in today's >> > technology-dependent world. NFB members reside throughout the United >> > States, including the state of California, and many of its members would >> use >> > the services of lsac.org if this website is made independently usable >> by >> > the blind. >> > >> > 7. Plaintiff the National Federation of the Blind of California >> > (hereafter "NFB of California") is a state affiliate of the National >> > Federation of the Blind. NFB of California is a California corporation >> and >> > carries out NFB's objectives at the state level. It has local chapters >> > throughout California, including Alameda County, and has its >> > headquarters > >> in >> > Fremont, California, in Alameda County. >> > >> > 8. Plaintiff Goraya is a member of the NFB and the NFB of >> > California. She is blind and has been denied full and equal access to >> the >> > accommodations, advantages, facilities and privileges of lsac.org. >> > >> > 9. Defendant LSAC, is a non-profit corporation >> > established to coordinate, facilitate, and enhance the law school >> admissions >> > process. LSAC owns, operates and/or maintains the website lsac.com, a >> > public accommodation. Plaintiffs seek access to the services provided >> > by > >> > LSAC in California through lsac.org. >> > >> > FACTS >> > >> > 10. Lsac.org is owned, controlled and/or operated by LSAC. >> Lsac.org >> > is a public accommodation that offers its visitors comprehensive >> > services > >> > for applying to law school. The website functions as the official >> > destination for guiding prospective law school applicants through the >> > fundamental steps of applying to law school. Among its services, >> lsac.orgoffers information about the LSAT and law school application >> process, and >> > extensive LSAT preparation materials and resources. Lsac.org also >> > serves > >> as >> > the exclusive online means for registering for the LSAT and applying to >> > ABA-accredited law schools. >> > >> > 11. According to the website, lsac.org's online services enable >> > prospective law students to do the following, among other things: >> > >> > a.. Register for the LSAT >> > b.. Register for the LSDAS (Law School Data Assembly Service) >> > c.. Purchase publications and test preparation materials >> > d.. Have access to electronic applications for all ABA-approved law >> > schools >> > e.. Apply online to law schools >> > f.. Register for law school forums >> > g.. Have 24-hour file access >> > 12. In addition to facilitating the LSAT and law school application >> > processes, a significant portion of the lsac.org website is devoted to >> > preparing students to take the LSAT. Among the services offered in that >> > regard are online information guides that explain how to prepare for the >> > LSAT and free, downloadable sample practice tests and test questions. >> > Lsac.org also offers for a fee an online LSAT practice test tool and >> > the > >> > opportunity to purchase more than 40 official LSAT practice tests. >> > >> > 13. While sighted visitors to lsac.org can easily obtain the benefits >> and >> > advantages offered by the website, blind individuals, including Ms. >> Goraya, >> > have been and are being denied access to lsac.org due to LSAC's failure >> > and refusal to remove access barriers to lsac.org. Specifically, blind >> > visitors to the website, including Ms. Goraya, cannot independently >> > apply > >> to >> > law school, register for the LSAT, or obtain in an accessible format the >> > LSAT preparation materials and practice tests available through >> lsac.org >> . >> > >> > 14. The blind access websites by using keyboards in conjunction >> with >> > screen-reading software. This software vocalizes or conveys to a >> refreshable >> > Braille display information that appears visually on a computer screen. >> > Unless websites are designed to allow for use in this manner, blind >> persons >> > are unable to fully access the internet websites and the information, >> > products and services contained therein. >> > >> > 15. There are well-established guidelines for making websites >> > accessible to the blind. These guidelines have been in place for at >> least >> > several years and have been followed successfully by other public >> > accommodations in making their online services accessible. The Web >> > Accessibility Initiative (WAI), a project of the World Wide Web >> Consortium, >> > which is the leading standards organization for the Web, has developed >> > guidelines for making information that is reached via the internet >> > accessible. The federal government has also promulgated accessibility >> > standards under Section 508 of the Rehabilitation Act. These guidelines >> > have long been readily available via the internet so that any public >> > accommodation could easily secure the necessary information. >> > >> > 16. Lsac.org contains a variety of access barriers that prevent >> free >> > and full use by blind persons using keyboards and screen reading >> software. >> > These barriers include but are not limited to: lack of or improperly >> > labeled form controls; faulty keyboard navigation; and use of tables and >> > charts that are not formatted for accessibility. Form controls allow >> users >> > to input data on online forms and applications. These controls must be >> > coded and labeled to allow screen-access software to detect and vocalize >> the >> > requested information. Keyboard navigation refers to the ability to >> > successfully navigate a website using keyboard commands, as opposed to >> > requiring a mouse as the exclusive means for navigation of the site. >> > Further, charts and tables must be formatted to work with screen-access >> > software. Much of the lsac.org website, and in particular the online >> law >> > school application and LSAT registration sections of the website, lack >> these >> > fundamental accessibility components. As a result, blind visitors to >> > the > >> > website cannot independently use those and other critical features. >> > >> > 17. Lsac.org's test preparation materials that are available on >> > the > >> > website in Adobe Portable Document (PDF) format, are not properly >> "tagged." >> > This means that the headings, paragraphs, tables, image descriptions >> > and > >> > form controls are not easily discernable to screen-reading software. As >> a >> > result, these materials are cumbersome, if not impossible, for a blind >> > visitor to navigate. >> > >> > 18. Finally, lsac.org fails to offer LSAT practice tests, >> available >> > as part of its test preparation services, in formats accessible to the >> > blind. While the sighted can easily use the website to obtain more than >> 40 >> > formerly administered LSAT practice tests, the website fails to offer >> > the > >> > opportunity to purchase these practice materials in formats accessible >> > to > >> > the blind, such as Braille or an accessible electronic format. >> > >> > 19. As a result of lsac.org's accessibility barriers, blind law >> > school applicants, including Ms. Goraya, must go over extraordinary >> hurdles >> > to register and prepare for the LSAT and to apply to law school compared >> to >> > their sighted counterparts. After unsuccessfully attempting to use >> > lsac.org independently to register for the LSAT and fill out her law >> > school applications, for example, Plaintiff Goraya was forced to select >> and >> > rely upon a reader for over 50 hours simply to read aloud the content of >> the >> > website and complete her law school applications. Moreover, none of the >> > LSAT practice materials, which include previously administered versions >> of >> > the test, were available to her in accessible electronic formats. >> Lsac.org >> > thus contains numerous access barriers which deny full and equal access >> to >> > Plaintiff, who would otherwise use the accommodations, advantages, and >> > facilities of lsac.org. >> > >> > 20. On December 10, 2008, Plaintiff National Federation of the >> Blind >> > notified LSAC of the unlawful accessibility barriers on its website. >> LSAC >> > responded by setting up and then canceling a meeting with the NFB. On >> > January 22, 2009, the NFB notified LSAC that it intended to pursue legal >> > action against LSAC for the unlawful barriers on its website. >> > >> > FIRST CAUSE OF ACTION >> > >> > (Violation of Cal. Civ. Code §§ 54, et seq. - the Disabled Persons Act) >> > >> > 21. The allegations contained in the previous paragraphs are >> > incorporated by reference. >> > >> > 22. The Disabled Persons Act ("DPA") requires that individuals >> > with > >> > disabilities have "full and equal access, as other members of the >> > general > >> > public, to accommodations, advantages, facilities, . . . and other >> > places > >> to >> > which the general public is invited, subject only to the conditions and >> > limitations established by law, or state or federal regulation, and >> > applicable alike to all persons." Cal. Civ. Code 54.1(a)(1). >> > >> > 23. Lsac.org, which is owned, operated and/or maintained by LSAC, >> is >> > an >> > >> > accommodation, advantage, facility and/or place to which the general >> public >> > is invited, as those terms are used in Cal. Civ. Code § 54.1(a)(1). >> > >> > 24. Defendant's conduct alleged herein violates the DPA, including >> > Cal. Civ. Code § 54.1(a)(1), by denying the Plaintiffs full and equal >> access >> > to the accommodations, advantages and facilities of lsac.org. >> > >> > 25. As a result of Defendant's conduct, the NFB, the NFB of >> > California, and Ms. Goraya are entitled to injunctive relief requiring >> > Defendant to make lsac.org accessible to blind individuals, and to make >> > the LSAT test practice materials offered to lsac.org patrons available >> to >> > blind people in an accessible format. >> > >> > SECOND CAUSE OF ACTION >> > >> > (Violation of Cal.Civ. Code §§ 51, et seq. - The Unruh Act) >> > >> > 26. The allegations contained in the previous paragraphs are >> > incorporated by reference. >> > >> > 27. California's Unruh Act requires that individuals with >> > disabilities have "full and equal accommodations, advantages, >> > facilities, > >> > privileges or services in all business establishments of every kind >> > whatsoever." Cal. Civ. Code § 51(b). >> > >> > 28. LSAC and Lsac.org are business establishments as that term is >> > used in Cal. Civ. Code § 51(b) and lsac.org is an accommodation, >> > advantage, facility, privilege and service of LSAC. >> > >> > 29. Defendant's conduct alleged herein violates the Unruh Act, >> > including Cal. Civ. Code § 51(b), by denying Plaintiffs the full and >> equal >> > accommodations, advantages, facilities, privileges or services of LSAC >> and >> > lsac.org. >> > >> > 30. Defendant violated the Unruh Act intentionally and/or with >> > deliberate indifference to the likelihood that it was violating the >> rights >> > of blind people and/or Defendant's violations were so intuitive or >> obvious >> > that noncompliance could not be other than intentional. >> > >> > 31. As a result of Defendant's conduct, the NFB, the NFB of >> > California, and Ms. Goraya are entitled to injunctive relief requiring >> > Defendant to make lsac.org accessible to blind individuals, and to make >> > the LSAT test practice materials offered to lsac.org patrons available >> to >> > blind people in an accessible format. >> > >> > >> > >> > THIRD CAUSE OF ACTION >> > >> > (Declaratory Relief, Cal. Civ. Proc. § 1060 ) >> > >> > 32. The allegations contained in the previous paragraphs are >> > incorporated by reference. >> > >> > 33. On information and belief, Defendants contend that they may >> > lawfully deny Plaintiffs access to their website and its contents. >> > Plaintiffs contend that lsac.org, which LSAC owns, operates, and/or >> > controls, must provide blind patrons access to its website and website >> > contents under California Civil Code §§ 54, et seq. and California Civil >> > Code §§ 51, et seq., which prohibit discrimination against the blind. >> > >> > 34. A judicial declaration is necessary and appropriate at this >> time >> > in order that each of the parties may know their respective rights and >> > duties and act accordingly. >> > >> > WHEREFORE, Plaintiffs request relief as set forth below. >> > >> > RELIEF REQUESTED >> > >> > WHEREFORE, Plaintiffs pray for judgment as follows: >> > >> > 1. An order enjoining LSAC from violating California >> > Civil Code §§ 51, et seq. and §§ 54, et seq.; >> > >> > 2. A declaration that LSAC is owning, maintaining >> and/or >> > operating lsac.org in a manner which discriminates against the blind >> and >> > which fails to provide access for persons with disabilities as required >> by >> > law; >> > >> > 3. Plaintiffs' reasonable attorneys' fees and costs >> > as > >> > authorized by California California Civil Code §§ 54, et seq., >> > California > >> > Civil Code §§ 51, et seq., and pursuant to California Code of Civil >> > Procedure § 1021.5. >> > >> > 4. Such other and further relief as the Court deems >> just >> > and proper. >> > >> > >> > >> > DATED: >> > DISABILITY RIGHTS ADVOCATES >> > >> > >> > >> > >> By: >> > ____________________________ >> > >> > >> > Laurence W. Paradis >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. >> > >> > LaBarre Law Offices P.C. >> > 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 >> > Denver, Colorado 80222 >> > 303 504-5979 (voice) >> > 303 757-3640 (fax) >> > slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) >> > www.labarrelaw.com (website) >> > >> > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and >> > privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may >> not >> > read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this >> message >> > in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or >> > slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. >> This >> > message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic >> > Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. >> > _______________________________________________ >> > blindlaw mailing list >> > blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> > blindlaw: >> > >> > >> >> >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b75205%40gmail.com > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> >> >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/bspiry%40comcast.n > >> et >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> >> >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b75205%40gmail.com > >> >> _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/bspiry%40comcast.n > et > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b75205%40gmail.com > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: James_Pepper.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 63315 bytes Desc: not available URL: From dennisgclark at sbcglobal.net Sat Mar 14 01:15:39 2009 From: dennisgclark at sbcglobal.net (Dennis Clark) Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 18:15:39 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target References: <549FC55C53E54BA5814FA71C231CE71F@StevePC> Message-ID: <001301c9a442$63a1e180$6401a8c0@server> They were damaged in that they were not able to place orders on Targets website using screen readers. As a result you would have to make purchases on the Target website using sighted assistance, likely paid assistance, or you would have to go to a Target store. If retailers like Target do not wish to make their websites available to all people, all they need to do is take the website down, and we can all go to the store in person to make our purchases. All the best, Dennis ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. Deeley" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 1:31 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > This is ridiculous! How were these people damaged? > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mehgan Sidhu" > To: > Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 3:20 PM > Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > >> To answer the recent questions posted about the Target case, the final >> settlement hearing took place on March 9th. I understand from our >> counsel in California, Larry Paradis of DRA and Josh Konecky, that there >> were no objectors and the Judge was pleased with the resolution of the >> case. The settlement is not fully "final" until the time for any >> appeals has run - which is about 30 days. Given there were no objectors, >> it is highly unlikely that any appeals will be filed. The judge has not >> yet made a ruling on attorneys fees, but that will not hold up >> enforcement of the settlement. >> >> >> >> As for disbursements, assuming there are no appeals, the claims >> administer has 45 days from the final approval date to disburse funds to >> claimants. I do not know the final tally of approved claimants, though I >> think there were several hundred. I will pass that information along >> when I have it. >> >> >> >> We will now be working on enforcing the settlement commitments that >> Target made with respect to the accessibility of the website. >> >> >> Mehgan Sidhu >> Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP >> 120 East Baltimore Street, Suite 1700 >> Baltimore, Maryland 21202 >> 410-962-1030 x1324 >> 410-385-0869 (fax) >> ms at browngold.com >> www.browngold.com >> >> Confidentiality Notice >> >> This e-mail may contain confidential information that may also be legally >> privileged and that is intended only for the use of the addressee(s) >> named above. If you are not the intended recipient or an authorized >> agent of the recipient, please be advised that any dissemination or >> copying of this e-mail, or taking of any action in reliance on the >> information contained herein, is strictly prohibited. If you have >> received this e-mail in error, please notify me immediately by use of the >> reply button, and then delete the e-mail from your system. Thank you! >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release Date: 03/13/09 > 05:59:00 > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dennisgclark%40sbcglobal.net From stevep.deeley at insightbb.com Sat Mar 14 01:20:11 2009 From: stevep.deeley at insightbb.com (Steve P. Deeley) Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 21:20:11 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target In-Reply-To: References: <549FC55C53E54BA5814FA71C231CE71F@StevePC> Message-ID: Well, sign me up. There are dozens of Web sites a year that I can't access. This is just ridiculous. This is, exactly, what raises the cost of doing business for companies. I'm not condoning Target's continuing unwillingness to deal with their inaccessible web site, however, there is no way that an individual is damaged to the tune of $4,000.00. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mehgan Sidhu" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 5:02 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > Steve, > > In addition to the ADA claim, the lawsuit was brought under California's > Unruh Act and Disabled Person's Act, both of which provide for minimum > statutory damages ($4,000 and $1,000 per violation, respectively). Under > the agreement, members of the California class who are legally blind, had > attempted to use Target.com between February 7, 2003 and December 9, 2008, > and experienced significant barriers were eligible for damages of up to > $3,500 per violation for a maximum of 2 violations. > > A copy of the settlement is available at the following site: > http://www.nfbtargetlawsuit.com/final_settlement.html > > Mehgan Sidhu > Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP > 120 East Baltimore Street, Suite 1700 > Baltimore, Maryland 21202 > 410-962-1030 x1324 > 410-385-0869 (fax) > ms at browngold.com > www.browngold.com > > Confidentiality Notice > > This e-mail may contain confidential information that may also be legally > privileged and that is intended only for the use of the addressee(s) named > above. If you are not the intended recipient or an authorized agent of > the recipient, please be advised that any dissemination or copying of this > e-mail, or taking of any action in reliance on the information contained > herein, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in > error, please notify me immediately by use of the reply button, and then > delete the e-mail from your system. Thank you! > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley > Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 4:31 PM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > This is ridiculous! How were these people damaged? > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mehgan Sidhu" > To: > Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 3:20 PM > Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > >> To answer the recent questions posted about the Target case, the final >> settlement hearing took place on March 9th. I understand from our >> counsel >> in California, Larry Paradis of DRA and Josh Konecky, that there were no >> objectors and the Judge was pleased with the resolution of the case. >> The >> settlement is not fully "final" until the time for any appeals has run - >> which is about 30 days. Given there were no objectors, it is highly >> unlikely that any appeals will be filed. The judge has not yet made a >> ruling on attorneys fees, but that will not hold up enforcement of the >> settlement. >> >> >> >> As for disbursements, assuming there are no appeals, the claims >> administer >> has 45 days from the final approval date to disburse funds to claimants. >> I do not know the final tally of approved claimants, though I think there >> were several hundred. I will pass that information along when I have it. >> >> >> >> We will now be working on enforcing the settlement commitments that >> Target >> made with respect to the accessibility of the website. >> >> >> Mehgan Sidhu >> Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP >> 120 East Baltimore Street, Suite 1700 >> Baltimore, Maryland 21202 >> 410-962-1030 x1324 >> 410-385-0869 (fax) >> ms at browngold.com >> www.browngold.com >> >> Confidentiality Notice >> >> This e-mail may contain confidential information that may also be legally >> privileged and that is intended only for the use of the addressee(s) >> named >> above. If you are not the intended recipient or an authorized agent of >> the recipient, please be advised that any dissemination or copying of >> this >> e-mail, or taking of any action in reliance on the information contained >> herein, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in >> error, please notify me immediately by use of the reply button, and then >> delete the e-mail from your system. Thank you! >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release Date: 03/13/09 > 05:59:00 > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ms%40browngold.com > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release Date: 03/13/09 05:59:00 From stevep.deeley at insightbb.com Sat Mar 14 01:22:41 2009 From: stevep.deeley at insightbb.com (Steve P. Deeley) Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 21:22:41 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target In-Reply-To: References: <549FC55C53E54BA5814FA71C231CE71F@StevePC> Message-ID: <489BACB231A24B1494701FE7E81396B8@StevePC> That is a lawyer talking who makes his living in rediculous situations like this one. Again, you show me how an individual was damaged and out $4,000.00. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott C. LaBarre" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 5:38 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target Violation of civil rights has long been recognized as a form of compensible legal damage as well it should be. Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. LaBarre Law Offices P.C. 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 Denver, Colorado 80222 303 504-5979 (voice) 303 757-3640 (fax) slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) www.labarrelaw.com (website) CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. Deeley" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 2:31 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > This is ridiculous! How were these people damaged? > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mehgan Sidhu" > To: > Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 3:20 PM > Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > >> To answer the recent questions posted about the Target case, the final >> settlement hearing took place on March 9th. I understand from our >> counsel in California, Larry Paradis of DRA and Josh Konecky, that there >> were no objectors and the Judge was pleased with the resolution of the >> case. The settlement is not fully "final" until the time for any >> appeals has run - which is about 30 days. Given there were no objectors, >> it is highly unlikely that any appeals will be filed. The judge has not >> yet made a ruling on attorneys fees, but that will not hold up >> enforcement of the settlement. >> >> >> >> As for disbursements, assuming there are no appeals, the claims >> administer has 45 days from the final approval date to disburse funds to >> claimants. I do not know the final tally of approved claimants, though I >> think there were several hundred. I will pass that information along >> when I have it. >> >> >> >> We will now be working on enforcing the settlement commitments that >> Target made with respect to the accessibility of the website. >> >> >> Mehgan Sidhu >> Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP >> 120 East Baltimore Street, Suite 1700 >> Baltimore, Maryland 21202 >> 410-962-1030 x1324 >> 410-385-0869 (fax) >> ms at browngold.com >> www.browngold.com >> >> Confidentiality Notice >> >> This e-mail may contain confidential information that may also be legally >> privileged and that is intended only for the use of the addressee(s) >> named above. If you are not the intended recipient or an authorized >> agent of the recipient, please be advised that any dissemination or >> copying of this e-mail, or taking of any action in reliance on the >> information contained herein, is strictly prohibited. If you have >> received this e-mail in error, please notify me immediately by use of the >> reply button, and then delete the e-mail from your system. Thank you! >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release Date: 03/13/09 > 05:59:00 > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/slabarre%40labarrelaw.com > _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release Date: 03/13/09 05:59:00 From carter.tjoseph at gmail.com Sat Mar 14 02:49:16 2009 From: carter.tjoseph at gmail.com (T. Joseph Carter) Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 19:49:16 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target In-Reply-To: References: <549FC55C53E54BA5814FA71C231CE71F@StevePC> Message-ID: <20090314024916.GB82715@yumi.bluecherry.net> The NFB contacted Target. Target was asked to fix it. They said no. This "cost of doing business" is self-inflicted. Joseph On Fri, Mar 13, 2009 at 09:20:11PM -0400, Steve P. Deeley wrote: > Well, sign me up. There are dozens of Web sites a year that I can't > access. This is just ridiculous. This is, exactly, what raises the cost > of doing business for companies. I'm not condoning Target's continuing > unwillingness to deal with their inaccessible > web site, however, there is no way that an individual is damaged to the > tune of $4,000.00. > Steve From roddj12 at hotmail.com Sat Mar 14 04:24:11 2009 From: roddj12 at hotmail.com (Rod Alcidonis) Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 00:24:11 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target References: <549FC55C53E54BA5814FA71C231CE71F@StevePC> Message-ID: Steve: If you are not an attorney or a law student, we may be arguing and understanding different concepts here. "Damage" is a legal concept, and if not used in that sense can certainly lead to ridiculous understanding. A damage award allows a plaintiff to be compensated for the harm caused by the defendant. Damages take various forms: physical harm, emotional harm, loss wages, etc. Here as Scott said, the legislature has decided to make such civil rights violations compensable as damages. It is a legal recognition that a harm was caused, and it was caused to the plaintiff. The harm here was violations of federal and State civil rights. I hope that helps. Rod Alcidonis Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009. Roger Williams University School of Law 10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 Bristol, RI 02809 Cell: 718-704-4651 Home: 401-824-8685 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. Deeley" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 9:20 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > Well, sign me up. There are dozens of Web sites a year that I can't > access. This is just ridiculous. This is, exactly, what raises the cost > of doing business for companies. I'm not condoning Target's continuing > unwillingness to deal with their inaccessible > web site, however, there is no way that an individual is damaged to the > tune of $4,000.00. > Steve > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mehgan Sidhu" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 5:02 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > >> Steve, >> >> In addition to the ADA claim, the lawsuit was brought under California's >> Unruh Act and Disabled Person's Act, both of which provide for minimum >> statutory damages ($4,000 and $1,000 per violation, respectively). Under >> the agreement, members of the California class who are legally blind, had >> attempted to use Target.com between February 7, 2003 and December 9, >> 2008, and experienced significant barriers were eligible for damages of >> up to $3,500 per violation for a maximum of 2 violations. >> >> A copy of the settlement is available at the following site: >> http://www.nfbtargetlawsuit.com/final_settlement.html >> >> Mehgan Sidhu >> Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP >> 120 East Baltimore Street, Suite 1700 >> Baltimore, Maryland 21202 >> 410-962-1030 x1324 >> 410-385-0869 (fax) >> ms at browngold.com >> www.browngold.com >> >> Confidentiality Notice >> >> This e-mail may contain confidential information that may also be legally >> privileged and that is intended only for the use of the addressee(s) >> named above. If you are not the intended recipient or an authorized >> agent of the recipient, please be advised that any dissemination or >> copying of this e-mail, or taking of any action in reliance on the >> information contained herein, is strictly prohibited. If you have >> received this e-mail in error, please notify me immediately by use of the >> reply button, and then delete the e-mail from your system. Thank you! >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley >> Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 4:31 PM >> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target >> >> This is ridiculous! How were these people damaged? >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Mehgan Sidhu" >> To: >> Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 3:20 PM >> Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target >> >> >>> To answer the recent questions posted about the Target case, the final >>> settlement hearing took place on March 9th. I understand from our >>> counsel >>> in California, Larry Paradis of DRA and Josh Konecky, that there were no >>> objectors and the Judge was pleased with the resolution of the case. The >>> settlement is not fully "final" until the time for any appeals has run - >>> which is about 30 days. Given there were no objectors, it is highly >>> unlikely that any appeals will be filed. The judge has not yet made a >>> ruling on attorneys fees, but that will not hold up enforcement of the >>> settlement. >>> >>> >>> >>> As for disbursements, assuming there are no appeals, the claims >>> administer >>> has 45 days from the final approval date to disburse funds to claimants. >>> I do not know the final tally of approved claimants, though I think >>> there >>> were several hundred. I will pass that information along when I have >>> it. >>> >>> >>> >>> We will now be working on enforcing the settlement commitments that >>> Target >>> made with respect to the accessibility of the website. >>> >>> >>> Mehgan Sidhu >>> Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP >>> 120 East Baltimore Street, Suite 1700 >>> Baltimore, Maryland 21202 >>> 410-962-1030 x1324 >>> 410-385-0869 (fax) >>> ms at browngold.com >>> www.browngold.com >>> >>> Confidentiality Notice >>> >>> This e-mail may contain confidential information that may also be >>> legally >>> privileged and that is intended only for the use of the addressee(s) >>> named >>> above. If you are not the intended recipient or an authorized agent of >>> the recipient, please be advised that any dissemination or copying of >>> this >>> e-mail, or taking of any action in reliance on the information contained >>> herein, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in >>> error, please notify me immediately by use of the reply button, and then >>> delete the e-mail from your system. Thank you! >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release Date: >> 03/13/09 >> 05:59:00 >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ms%40browngold.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release Date: 03/13/09 > 05:59:00 > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail.com > From angie at mpmail.net Sat Mar 14 04:54:38 2009 From: angie at mpmail.net (Angie Matney) Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 00:54:38 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. lsac complaint In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Now=20that=20the=20ABA=20advises=20schools=20to=20only=20consider=20the=20= highest=20score,=20it=20would=20seem=20to=20be=20less=20likely=20that=20a=20= low=20first=20score=20would=20be=20considered=20irreparable=20harm. Angie On=20Fri,=2013=20Mar=202009=2002:31:57=20-0400,=20Rod=20Alcidonis=20wrote:= >Well,=20academically=20speaking,=20the=20law=20suit=20could=20have=20pray= ed=20for=20a=20Temporary=20 >Restraining=20Order,=20or=20a=20preliminary=20Injunction=20against=20the=20= LSAC=20for=20folks=20 >like=20you.=20Basically=20enjoined=20the=20LSAC=20from=20administering=20= the=20exam=20until=20they=20 >make=20the=20changes.=20The=20only=20difficulty=20with=20that=20I=20think= =20justifies=20the=20reason=20 >they=20probably=20did=20not=20pray=20for=20such=20a=20relief=20is=20that=20= such=20a=20measure=20would=20 >cause=20too=20much=20harm=20to=20the=20public,=20I.E,=20the=20thousands=20= of=20law=20students=20and=20 >schools=20who=20rely=20on=20the=20exam=20to=20make=20admissions=20decisio= ns.=20Such=20an=20order=20 >while=20it=20would=20have=20forced=20the=20LSAC=20to=20make=20the=20chang= es=20much=20faster,=20it=20 >would=20have=20unreasonably=20halted=20the=20system=20for=20some=20times.= =20If=20it=20were=20a=20class=20 >action=20with=20thousands=20of=20members,=20it=20probably=20would=20have=20= been=20easier=20to=20 >argue,=20I=20think.=20Whether=20not=20passing=20an=20exam=20for=20the=20f= irst=20time=20is=20considered=20 >irreparable=20harm=20is=20another=20question=20--=20you=20can=20still=20m= ake=20the=20argument=20 >under=20these=20circumstances. >Rod=20Alcidonis >Juris=20Doctor=20Candidate,=202009. >Roger=20Williams=20University=20School=20of=20Law >10=20Metacom=20Ave.,=20Box:=209003 >Bristol,=20RI=2002809 >Cell:=20718-704-4651 >Home:=20401-824-8685 >-----=20Original=20Message=20-----=20 >From:=20"Bill=20Spiry"=20 >To:=20"'NFBnet=20Blind=20Law=20Mailing=20List'"=20 >Sent:=20Wednesday,=20March=2011,=202009=209:52=20PM >Subject:=20Re:=20[blindlaw]=20nfb=20v.=20lsac=20complaint >I=20understand.=20What=20might=20be=20done=20to=20getLSAC=20to=20authoriz= e=20use=20of=20this >material=20as=20an=20accessible=20alternative=20to=20what=20they=20have=20= to=20offer?=20I=20know=20NFB >is=20sueing=20them,=20but=20in=20the=20mean=20time=20that=20leaves=20folk= s=20like=20me=20who=20don't >have=20the=20Adobe=20skills=20you=20have,=20and=20facing=20the=20LSAT=20s= oon=20=20without=20accessible >matter.=20Any=20ideas=20or=20suggestions? >Thanks. >-----Original=20Message----- >From:=20blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org=20[mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org= ]=20On >Behalf=20Of=20James=20Pepper >Sent:=20Tuesday,=20March=2010,=202009=2010:43=20AM >To:=20NFBnet=20Blind=20Law=20Mailing=20List >Subject:=20Re:=20[blindlaw]=20nfb=20v.=20lsac=20complaint >Well=20Bill=20the=20content=20is=20copyrighted=20by=20LSAC=20so=20I=20am=20= not=20sure=20I=20can=20send >this=20to=20you.=20Perhaps=20some=20on=20this=20list=20can=20give=20that=20= advice.=20I=20laid=20it=20out >properly. >James >On=20Tue,=20Mar=2010,=202009=20at=209:05=20AM,=20Bill=20Spiry=20=20wrote: >>=20I=20would=20appreciate=20receiving=20this=20as=20well.=20Thanks. >>=20bspiry at comcast.net >> >> >>=20-----Original=20Message----- >>=20From:=20blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org=20[mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet= .org]=20On >>=20Behalf=20Of=20James=20Pepper >>=20Sent:=20Tuesday,=20March=2010,=202009=201:46=20AM >>=20To:=20NFBnet=20Blind=20Law=20Mailing=20List >>=20Subject:=20Re:=20[blindlaw]=20nfb=20v.=20lsac=20complaint >> >>=20=20Scott:=20I=20laid=20out=20the=20first=20section=20of=20the=20LSAT=20= to=20be=20accessible=20and=20I >>=20can >>=20send=20you=20the=20files=20if=20you=20would=20like=20to=20see=20it.=20= Also=20I=20made=20the=20form=20that >>=20they=20use=20accessible=20so=20the=20blind=20can=20fill=20out=20the=20= test=20without=20assistance. >>=20This=20works=20with=20JAWS=20and=20Window=20Eyes=20and=20a=20combinat= ion=20of=20Adobe's=20Read=20out >>=20Loud=20and=20Microsoft=20Narrator.=20=20My=20process=20works=20and=20= if=20you=20need=20references >>=20at >>=20NFB,=20AFB=20and=20the=20AAPD=20I=20can=20send=20them=20to=20you. >> >>=20It=20took=20a=20while=20to=20figure=20out=20how=20they=20made=20thier= =20pdfs=20and=20I=20know=20where >>=20they >>=20are=20making=20their=20mistakes.=20I=20can=20correct=20this=20problem= .=20=20These=20PDFs=20are >made >>=20to=20work=20natively=20with=20JAWS=20and=20Adobe=20Reader=20and=20the= =20other=20screen=20readers >>=20without=20making=20any=20adjustments.=20=20They=20work=20with=20the=20= default=20settings=20in >>=20Adobe=20Reader. >> >>=20Also=20the=20forms=20can=20be=20digitally=20signed=20and=20saved=20an= d=20all=20that=20fancy=20stuff >>=20that=20you=20expect=20with=20Adobe=20Acrobat=20Professional=20can=20b= e=20done=20with >>=20Adobe=20Reader,=20versions=208=20or=209=20which=20is=20the=20free=20d= ownload=20from=20Adobe.com. >>=20=20So >>=20we=20can=20make=20the=20LSAT=20accessible=20to=20anyone=20with=20a=20= PC=20running=20Windows=20XP=20Or >>=20VIsta=20without=20any=20change=20of=20settings.=20=20This=20means=20t= he=20PC=20can=20be=20there=20for >>=20the=20sighted=20and=20the=20blind,=20with=20equal=20access=20for=20al= l. >> >>=20Also=20since=20I=20labeled=20everything,=20it=20will=20be=20a=20lot=20= quicker=20for=20you=20to=20fill >>=20out=20this=20test! >> >>=20Sincerely, >> >>=20James=20G.=20Pepper >> >> >> >>=20On=20Thu,=20Feb=2019,=202009=20at=204:32=20PM,=20Scott=20C.=20LaBarre= >>=20wrote: >> >>=20>=20Below=20I=20am=20sharing=20the=20complaint=20that=20we=20filed=20= today=20in=20California >Court. >>=20>=20************** >>=20>=20LaurEnce=20W.=20paradis=20(California=20Bar=20No.=20122336) >>=20> >>=20>=20Anna=20levine=20=20(California=20Bar=20No.=20227881) >>=20> >>=20>=20Disability=20Rights=20Advocates >>=20> >>=20>=202001=20Center=20Street,=20Third=20Floor >>=20> >>=20>=20Berkeley,=20California=2094704 >>=20> >>=20>=20Telephone:=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20(510)=20665-8644 >>=20> >>=20>=20Facsimile:=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20(510)=20665-8511 >>=20> >>=20>=20TTY:=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20(510)=20665-8= 716 >>=20> >>=20> >>=20> >>=20>=20SCOTT=20LABARRE=20(to=20seek=20pro=20hac=20vice=20admission) >>=20> >>=20>=20LABARRE=20LAW=20OFFICES,=20P.C. >>=20> >>=20>=201660=20S.=20Albion=20Street,=20Ste=20918 >>=20> >>=20>=20Denver,=20Colo=20=2080222 >>=20> >>=20>=20Telephone:=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20(303)=20504-5979 >>=20> >>=20>=20Fax:=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20(303)=20= 757-3640 >>=20> >>=20> >>=20> >>=20>=20DANIEL=20F.=20GOLDSTEIN=20(to=20seek=20pro=20hac=20vice=20admissi= on) >>=20> >>=20>=20MEHGAN=20Sidhu=20(to=20seek=20pro=20hac=20vice=20admission) >>=20> >>=20>=20Brown,=20Goldstein=20&=20Levy,=20LLP >>=20> >>=20>=20120=20E.=20Baltimore=20St.,=20Suite=201700 >>=20> >>=20>=20Baltimore,=20MD=2021202 >>=20> >>=20>=20Telephone:=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20(410)=20962-1030 >>=20> >>=20>=20Fax:=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20(410)=20= 385-0869 >>=20> >>=20> >>=20> >>=20>=20SUPERIOR=20COURT=20OF=20THE=20STATE=20OF=20CALIFORNIA >>=20>=20COUNTY=20OF=20ALAMEDA >>=20> >>=20> >>=20> >>=20>=20=20=20=20=20=20National=20Federation=20of=20the=20Blind,=20the=20= National=20Federation=20of=20the >>=20Blind >>=20>=20of=20CALIFORNIA,=20and=20DEEPA=20GORAYA, >>=20> >>=20> >>=20> >>=20>=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20= =20=20=20=20=20=20=20Plaintiffs, >>=20> >>=20>=20=20=20=20=20=20v. >>=20> >>=20>=20=20=20=20=20=20LAW=20SCHOOL=20ADMISSION=20COUNCIL,=20INC., >>=20> >>=20>=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20= =20=20=20=20=20=20=20Defendant. >>=20> >>=20> >>=20> >>=20>=20=20=20=20=20Case=20No.: >>=20> >>=20> >>=20> >>=20> >>=20> >>=20>=20=20=20=20=20=20COMPLAINT=20FOR=20INJUNCTIVE=20AND=20DECLARATORY=20= RELIEF=20FOR=20VIOLATIONS=20OF >>=20THE >>=20>=20CALIFORNIA=20DISABLED=20PERSONS=20ACT=20AND=20UNRUH=20CIVIL=20RIG= HTS=20ACT >>=20> >>=20> >>=20> >>=20> >>=20>=20INTRODUCTION >>=20> >>=20>=20Plaintiffs=20complain=20of=20Defendant=20and=20allege=20herein=20= as=20follows: >>=20> >>=20>=201.=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20This=20action,=20brought=20by=20the=20= National=20Federation=20of=20the=20Blind, >>=20>=20the=20National=20Federation=20of=20the=20Blind=20of=20California,= =20and=20Deepa=20Goraya, >>=20seeks >>=20>=20to=20put=20an=20end=20to=20civil=20rights=20violations=20committe= d=20by=20defendant=20Law >>=20School >>=20>=20Admissions=20Council=20(hereafter=20"LSAC")=20against=20blind=20p= ersons=20seeking=20to >>=20take >>=20>=20the=20LSAT=20exam=20and=20apply=20to=20law=20schools.=20=20Plaint= iff=20Deepa=20Goraya,=20a=20blind >>=20law >>=20>=20school=20applicant=20in=20California,=20has=20been=20and=20is=20b= eing=20denied=20equal >access >>=20to >>=20>=20the=20accommodations,=20advantages,=20and=20facilities=20LSAC=20p= rovides=20its >>=20>=20non-disabled=20customers=20through=20http://www.lsac.org=20(herea= fter=20"lsac.org" >>=20>=20and=20"the=20website").=20=20Plaintiffs=20National=20Federation=20= of=20the=20Blind=20and=20the >>=20>=20National=20Federation=20of=20the=20Blind=20of=20California=20have= =20members=20who=20are >>=20>=20similarly=20denied=20full=20and=20equal=20access=20to=20such=20ac= commodations, >advantages >>=20>=20and=20facilities.=20=20Lsac.org=20is=20currently=20the=20only=20p= lace=20online=20where >>=20>=20prospective=20law=20students=20can=20register=20for=20the=20Law=20= School=20Admissions=20Test >>=20>=20("LSAT"),=20apply=20to=20law=20schools,=20and=20obtain=20official= =20LSAT=20test >preparation >>=20>=20materials=20and=20information.=20=20Lsac.org=20contains=20multipl= e=20access=20barriers >>=20that >>=20>=20make=20it=20difficult=20if=20not=20impossible=20for=20blind=20law= =20school=20applicants=20and >>=20LSAT >>=20>=20test=20takers=20to=20use=20the=20website=20and=20to=20obtain=20pr= actice=20materials=20without >>=20>=20sighted=20assistance.=20=20LSAC=20thus=20excludes=20the=20blind,=20= including=20Ms.=20Goraya, >>=20>=20from=20full=20and=20equal=20access=20to=20the=20accommodations,=20= advantages, >facilities, >>=20>=20and=20privileges=20of=20lsac.org. >>=20> >>=20>=20JURISDICTION >>=20> >>=20>=202.=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20This=20is=20a=20civil=20action=20und= er=20California's=20Disabled=20Persons >Act >>=20>=20(Cal.=20Civ.=20Code=20=A7=A7=2054,=20et=20seq.)=20and=20the=20Unr= uh=20Civil=20Rights=20Act=20(Cal. >Civ. >>=20>=20Code=20=A7=A7=2051,=20et=20seq.)=20and=20for=20declaratory=20reli= ef.=20=20This=20Court=20has >>=20>=20jurisdiction=20over=20the=20claims=20alleged=20herein=20pursuant=20= to=20California=20Civil >>=20>=20Code=20=A7=A7=2054,=20et=20seq.=20and=20California=20Civil=20Code= =20=A7=A7=2051,=20et=20seq.=20and >>=20California >>=20>=20Code=20of=20Civil=20Procedure=20section=201060. >>=20> >>=20>=203.=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20This=20Court=20has=20jurisdiction=20= over=20LSAC=20because=20LSAC=20is=20a >>=20>=20corporation=20authorized=20to=20do=20business=20in=20California=20= and=20LSAC=20conducts >>=20>=20substantial=20business=20in=20California.=20LSAC=20owns,=20mainta= ins=20and=20operates >its >>=20>=20website,=20lsac.org,=20throughout=20California=20and=20in=20Alame= da=20County. >>=20> >>=20> >>=20> >>=20>=20VENUE >>=20> >>=20>=204.=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20Venue=20is=20proper=20in=20Alameda=20= County=20because=20liability=20arises=20in >>=20>=20part=20in=20Alameda=20County,=20where=20the=20National=20Federati= on=20of=20the=20Blind=20of >>=20>=20California=20has=20its=20headquarters.=20=20LSAC=20has=20been=20a= nd=20is=20committing=20the >>=20acts >>=20>=20alleged=20herein=20in=20Alameda=20County,=20has=20been=20and=20is= =20violating=20the=20rights >of >>=20>=20patrons=20in=20Alameda=20County,=20and=20has=20been=20and=20is=20= causing=20injury=20to=20patrons >>=20in >>=20>=20Alameda=20County. >>=20> >>=20>=205.=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20Plaintiff=20Goraya=20is=20a=20Califo= rnia=20citizen=20and=20has=20experienced >>=20>=20injury=20in=20California=20as=20a=20result=20of=20LSAC's=20inacce= ssible=20website=20and >>=20practice >>=20>=20materials. >>=20> >>=20>=20PARTIES >>=20> >>=20>=206.=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20Plaintiff=20the=20National=20Federat= ion=20of=20the=20Blind=20(hereafter >>=20"NFB") >>=20>=20is=20a=20national=20advocacy=20organization.=20=20The=20NFB,=20th= e=20oldest=20and=20largest >>=20>=20national=20organization=20of=20blind=20persons,=20is=20a=20non-pr= ofit=20corporation=20duly >>=20>=20organized=20under=20the=20laws=20of=20the=20District=20of=20Colum= bia=20with=20its=20principal >>=20>=20place=20of=20business=20in=20Baltimore,=20Maryland.=20=20It=20has= =20affiliates=20in=20all=2050 >>=20>=20states=20(including=20California)=20as=20well=20as=20Washington,=20= D.C.=20and=20Puerto >>=20Rico. >>=20>=20=20The=20vast=20majority=20of=20the=20approximately=2050,000=20me= mbers=20are=20blind >persons. >>=20>=20=20The=20NFB=20is=20widely=20recognized=20by=20the=20public,=20Co= ngress,=20executive >agencies >>=20of >>=20>=20government=20and=20the=20courts=20as=20a=20collective=20and=20rep= resentative=20voice=20on >>=20behalf >>=20>=20of=20blind=20Americans=20and=20their=20families.=20=20The=20purpo= se=20of=20the=20NFB=20is=20to >>=20promote >>=20>=20the=20general=20welfare=20of=20the=20blind=20by=20(1)=20assisting= =20the=20blind=20in=20their >>=20efforts >>=20>=20to=20integrate=20themselves=20into=20society=20on=20terms=20of=20= equality=20and=20(2) >>=20removing >>=20>=20barriers=20and=20changing=20social=20attitudes,=20stereotypes=20a= nd=20mistaken=20beliefs >>=20>=20that=20sighted=20and=20blind=20persons=20hold=20concerning=20the=20= limitations=20created >by >>=20>=20blindness=20resulting=20in=20the=20denial=20of=20opportunity=20to= =20blind=20persons=20in >>=20>=20virtually=20every=20sphere=20of=20life.=20=20The=20NFB=20and=20ma= ny=20of=20its=20members=20have >>=20long >>=20>=20been=20actively=20involved=20in=20promoting=20adaptive=20technolo= gy=20for=20the=20blind, >so >>=20>=20that=20blind=20persons=20can=20live=20and=20work=20independently=20= in=20today's >>=20>=20technology-dependent=20world.=20=20NFB=20members=20reside=20throu= ghout=20the=20United >>=20>=20States,=20including=20the=20state=20of=20California,=20and=20many= =20of=20its=20members=20would >>=20use >>=20>=20the=20services=20of=20lsac.org=20if=20this=20website=20is=20made=20= independently=20usable=20by >>=20>=20the=20blind. >>=20> >>=20>=207.=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20Plaintiff=20the=20National=20Federat= ion=20of=20the=20Blind=20of=20California >>=20>=20(hereafter=20"NFB=20of=20California")=20is=20a=20state=20affiliat= e=20of=20the=20National >>=20>=20Federation=20of=20the=20Blind.=20=20NFB=20of=20California=20is=20= a=20California=20corporation >>=20and >>=20>=20carries=20out=20NFB's=20objectives=20at=20the=20state=20level.=20= =20It=20has=20local=20chapters >>=20>=20throughout=20California,=20including=20Alameda=20County,=20and=20= has=20its >headquarters >>=20in >>=20>=20Fremont,=20California,=20in=20Alameda=20County. >>=20> >>=20>=208.=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20Plaintiff=20Goraya=20is=20a=20member= =20of=20the=20NFB=20and=20the=20NFB=20of >>=20>=20California.=20=20She=20is=20blind=20and=20has=20been=20denied=20f= ull=20and=20equal=20access=20to >>=20the >>=20>=20accommodations,=20advantages,=20facilities=20and=20privileges=20o= f=20lsac.org. >>=20> >>=20>=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=209.=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20Def= endant=20LSAC,=20is=20a=20non-profit=20corporation >>=20>=20established=20to=20coordinate,=20facilitate,=20and=20enhance=20th= e=20law=20school >>=20admissions >>=20>=20process.=20LSAC=20owns,=20operates=20and/or=20maintains=20the=20w= ebsite=20lsac.com,=20a >>=20>=20public=20accommodation.=20=20Plaintiffs=20seek=20access=20to=20th= e=20services=20provided >by >>=20>=20LSAC=20in=20California=20through=20lsac.org. >>=20> >>=20>=20FACTS >>=20> >>=20>=2010.=20=20=20=20=20=20=20Lsac.org=20is=20owned,=20controlled=20and= /or=20operated=20by=20LSAC. >>=20=20Lsac.org >>=20>=20is=20a=20public=20accommodation=20that=20offers=20its=20visitors=20= comprehensive >services >>=20>=20for=20applying=20to=20law=20school.=20=20The=20website=20function= s=20as=20the=20official >>=20>=20destination=20for=20guiding=20prospective=20law=20school=20applic= ants=20through=20the >>=20>=20fundamental=20steps=20of=20applying=20to=20law=20school.=20=20Amo= ng=20its=20services, >>=20lsac.orgoffers=20information=20about=20the=20LSAT=20and=20law=20schoo= l=20application >>=20=20process,=20and >>=20>=20extensive=20LSAT=20preparation=20materials=20and=20resources.=20=20= Lsac.org=20also >serves >>=20as >>=20>=20the=20exclusive=20online=20means=20for=20registering=20for=20the=20= LSAT=20and=20applying=20to >>=20>=20ABA-accredited=20law=20schools. >>=20> >>=20>=2011.=20=20=20=20=20=20=20According=20to=20the=20website,=20lsac.or= g's=20online=20services=20enable >>=20>=20prospective=20law=20students=20to=20do=20the=20following,=20among= =20other=20things: >>=20> >>=20>=20=20a..=20Register=20for=20the=20LSAT >>=20>=20=20b..=20Register=20for=20the=20LSDAS=20(Law=20School=20Data=20As= sembly=20Service) >>=20>=20=20c..=20Purchase=20publications=20and=20test=20preparation=20mat= erials >>=20>=20=20d..=20Have=20access=20to=20electronic=20applications=20for=20a= ll=20ABA-approved=20law >>=20>=20schools >>=20>=20=20e..=20Apply=20online=20to=20law=20schools >>=20>=20=20f..=20Register=20for=20law=20school=20forums >>=20>=20=20g..=20Have=2024-hour=20file=20access >>=20>=2012.=20=20In=20addition=20to=20facilitating=20the=20LSAT=20and=20l= aw=20school=20application >>=20>=20processes,=20a=20significant=20portion=20of=20the=20lsac.org=20we= bsite=20is=20devoted=20to >>=20>=20preparing=20students=20to=20take=20the=20LSAT.=20=20Among=20the=20= services=20offered=20in=20that >>=20>=20regard=20are=20online=20information=20guides=20that=20explain=20h= ow=20to=20prepare=20for=20the >>=20>=20LSAT=20and=20free,=20downloadable=20sample=20practice=20tests=20a= nd=20test=20questions. >>=20>=20=20Lsac.org=20also=20offers=20for=20a=20fee=20an=20online=20LSAT=20= practice=20test=20tool=20and >the >>=20>=20opportunity=20to=20purchase=20more=20than=2040=20official=20LSAT=20= practice=20tests. >>=20> >>=20>=2013.=20=20While=20sighted=20visitors=20to=20lsac.org=20can=20easil= y=20obtain=20the=20benefits >>=20and >>=20>=20advantages=20offered=20by=20the=20website,=20blind=20individuals,= =20including=20Ms. >>=20Goraya, >>=20>=20have=20been=20and=20are=20being=20denied=20access=20to=20lsac.org= =20due=20to=20LSAC's=20failure >>=20>=20and=20refusal=20to=20remove=20access=20barriers=20to=20lsac.org.=20= =20Specifically,=20blind >>=20>=20visitors=20to=20the=20website,=20including=20Ms.=20Goraya,=20cann= ot=20independently >apply >>=20to >>=20>=20law=20school,=20register=20for=20the=20LSAT,=20or=20obtain=20in=20= an=20accessible=20format=20the >>=20>=20LSAT=20preparation=20materials=20and=20practice=20tests=20availab= le=20through=20lsac.org >>=20. >>=20> >>=20>=2014.=20=20=20=20=20=20=20The=20blind=20access=20websites=20by=20us= ing=20keyboards=20in=20conjunction >>=20with >>=20>=20screen-reading=20software.=20This=20software=20vocalizes=20or=20c= onveys=20to=20a >>=20refreshable >>=20>=20Braille=20display=20information=20that=20appears=20visually=20on=20= a=20computer=20screen. >>=20>=20=20Unless=20websites=20are=20designed=20to=20allow=20for=20use=20= in=20this=20manner,=20blind >>=20persons >>=20>=20are=20unable=20to=20fully=20access=20the=20internet=20websites=20= and=20the=20information, >>=20>=20products=20and=20services=20contained=20therein. >>=20> >>=20>=2015.=20=20=20=20=20=20=20There=20are=20well-established=20guidelin= es=20for=20making=20websites >>=20>=20accessible=20to=20the=20blind.=20=20These=20guidelines=20have=20b= een=20in=20place=20for=20at >>=20least >>=20>=20several=20years=20and=20have=20been=20followed=20successfully=20b= y=20other=20public >>=20>=20accommodations=20in=20making=20their=20online=20services=20access= ible.=20=20The=20Web >>=20>=20Accessibility=20Initiative=20(WAI),=20a=20project=20of=20the=20Wo= rld=20Wide=20Web >>=20Consortium, >>=20>=20which=20is=20the=20leading=20standards=20organization=20for=20the= =20Web,=20has=20developed >>=20>=20guidelines=20for=20making=20information=20that=20is=20reached=20v= ia=20the=20internet >>=20>=20accessible.=20=20The=20federal=20government=20has=20also=20promul= gated=20accessibility >>=20>=20standards=20under=20Section=20508=20of=20the=20Rehabilitation=20A= ct.=20=20These=20guidelines >>=20>=20have=20long=20been=20readily=20available=20via=20the=20internet=20= so=20that=20any=20public >>=20>=20accommodation=20could=20easily=20secure=20the=20necessary=20infor= mation. >>=20> >>=20>=2016.=20=20=20=20=20=20=20Lsac.org=20contains=20a=20variety=20of=20= access=20barriers=20that=20prevent >>=20free >>=20>=20and=20full=20use=20by=20blind=20persons=20using=20keyboards=20and= =20screen=20reading >>=20software. >>=20>=20=20These=20barriers=20include=20but=20are=20not=20limited=20to:=20= lack=20of=20or=20improperly >>=20>=20labeled=20form=20controls;=20faulty=20keyboard=20navigation;=20an= d=20use=20of=20tables=20and >>=20>=20charts=20that=20are=20not=20formatted=20for=20accessibility.=20=20= Form=20controls=20allow >>=20users >>=20>=20to=20input=20data=20on=20online=20forms=20and=20applications.=20=20= These=20controls=20must=20be >>=20>=20coded=20and=20labeled=20to=20allow=20screen-access=20software=20t= o=20detect=20and=20vocalize >>=20the >>=20>=20requested=20information.=20=20Keyboard=20navigation=20refers=20to= =20the=20ability=20to >>=20>=20successfully=20navigate=20a=20website=20using=20keyboard=20comman= ds,=20as=20opposed=20to >>=20>=20requiring=20a=20mouse=20as=20the=20exclusive=20means=20for=20navi= gation=20of=20the=20site. >>=20>=20=20Further,=20charts=20and=20tables=20must=20be=20formatted=20to=20= work=20with=20screen-access >>=20>=20software.=20=20Much=20of=20the=20lsac.org=20website,=20and=20in=20= particular=20the=20online >>=20law >>=20>=20school=20application=20and=20LSAT=20registration=20sections=20of=20= the=20website,=20lack >>=20these >>=20>=20fundamental=20accessibility=20components.=20=20As=20a=20result,=20= blind=20visitors=20to >the >>=20>=20website=20cannot=20independently=20use=20those=20and=20other=20cr= itical=20features. >>=20> >>=20>=2017.=20=20=20=20=20=20=20Lsac.org's=20test=20preparation=20materia= ls=20that=20are=20available=20on >the >>=20>=20website=20in=20Adobe=20Portable=20Document=20(PDF)=20format,=20ar= e=20not=20properly >>=20"tagged." >>=20>=20=20This=20means=20that=20the=20headings,=20paragraphs,=20tables,=20= image=20descriptions >and >>=20>=20form=20controls=20are=20not=20easily=20discernable=20to=20screen-= reading=20software.=20=20As >>=20a >>=20>=20result,=20these=20materials=20are=20cumbersome,=20if=20not=20impo= ssible,=20for=20a=20blind >>=20>=20visitor=20to=20navigate. >>=20> >>=20>=2018.=20=20=20=20=20=20=20Finally,=20lsac.org=20fails=20to=20offer=20= LSAT=20practice=20tests, >>=20available >>=20>=20as=20part=20of=20its=20test=20preparation=20services,=20in=20form= ats=20accessible=20to=20the >>=20>=20blind.=20=20While=20the=20sighted=20can=20easily=20use=20the=20we= bsite=20to=20obtain=20more=20than >>=2040 >>=20>=20formerly=20administered=20LSAT=20practice=20tests,=20the=20websit= e=20fails=20to=20offer >the >>=20>=20opportunity=20to=20purchase=20these=20practice=20materials=20in=20= formats=20accessible >to >>=20>=20the=20blind,=20such=20as=20Braille=20or=20an=20accessible=20elect= ronic=20format. >>=20> >>=20>=2019.=20=20=20=20=20=20=20As=20a=20result=20of=20lsac.org's=20acces= sibility=20barriers,=20blind=20law >>=20>=20school=20applicants,=20including=20Ms.=20Goraya,=20must=20go=20ov= er=20extraordinary >>=20hurdles >>=20>=20to=20register=20and=20prepare=20for=20the=20LSAT=20and=20to=20app= ly=20to=20law=20school=20compared >>=20to >>=20>=20their=20sighted=20counterparts.=20=20After=20unsuccessfully=20att= empting=20to=20use >>=20>=20lsac.org=20independently=20to=20register=20for=20the=20LSAT=20and= =20fill=20out=20her=20law >>=20>=20school=20applications,=20for=20example,=20Plaintiff=20Goraya=20wa= s=20forced=20to=20select >>=20and >>=20>=20rely=20upon=20a=20reader=20for=20over=2050=20hours=20simply=20to=20= read=20aloud=20the=20content=20of >>=20the >>=20>=20website=20and=20complete=20her=20law=20school=20applications.=20=20= Moreover,=20none=20of=20the >>=20>=20LSAT=20practice=20materials,=20which=20include=20previously=20adm= inistered=20versions >>=20of >>=20>=20the=20test,=20were=20available=20to=20her=20in=20accessible=20ele= ctronic=20formats. >>=20Lsac.org >>=20>=20thus=20contains=20numerous=20access=20barriers=20which=20deny=20f= ull=20and=20equal=20access >>=20to >>=20>=20Plaintiff,=20who=20would=20otherwise=20use=20the=20accommodations= ,=20advantages,=20and >>=20>=20facilities=20of=20lsac.org. >>=20> >>=20>=2020.=20=20=20=20=20=20=20On=20December=2010,=202008,=20Plaintiff=20= National=20Federation=20of=20the >>=20Blind >>=20>=20notified=20LSAC=20of=20the=20unlawful=20accessibility=20barriers=20= on=20its=20website. >>=20=20LSAC >>=20>=20responded=20by=20setting=20up=20and=20then=20canceling=20a=20meet= ing=20with=20the=20NFB.=20=20On >>=20>=20January=2022,=202009,=20the=20NFB=20notified=20LSAC=20that=20it=20= intended=20to=20pursue=20legal >>=20>=20action=20against=20LSAC=20for=20the=20unlawful=20barriers=20on=20= its=20website. >>=20> >>=20>=20FIRST=20CAUSE=20OF=20ACTION >>=20> >>=20>=20(Violation=20of=20Cal.=20Civ.=20Code=20=A7=A7=2054,=20et=20seq.=20= -=20the=20Disabled=20Persons=20Act) >>=20> >>=20>=2021.=20=20=20=20=20=20=20The=20allegations=20contained=20in=20the=20= previous=20paragraphs=20are >>=20>=20incorporated=20by=20reference. >>=20> >>=20>=2022.=20=20=20=20=20=20=20The=20Disabled=20Persons=20Act=20("DPA")=20= requires=20that=20individuals >with >>=20>=20disabilities=20have=20"full=20and=20equal=20access,=20as=20other=20= members=20of=20the >general >>=20>=20public,=20to=20accommodations,=20advantages,=20facilities,=20.=20= .=20.=20and=20other >places >>=20to >>=20>=20which=20the=20general=20public=20is=20invited,=20subject=20only=20= to=20the=20conditions=20and >>=20>=20limitations=20established=20by=20law,=20or=20state=20or=20federal= =20regulation,=20and >>=20>=20applicable=20alike=20to=20all=20persons."=20=20Cal.=20Civ.=20Code= =2054.1(a)(1). >>=20> >>=20>=2023.=20=20=20=20=20=20=20Lsac.org,=20which=20is=20owned,=20operate= d=20and/or=20maintained=20by=20LSAC, >>=20is >>=20>=20an >>=20> >>=20>=20accommodation,=20advantage,=20facility=20and/or=20place=20to=20wh= ich=20the=20general >>=20public >>=20>=20is=20invited,=20as=20those=20terms=20are=20used=20in=20Cal.=20Civ= .=20Code=20=A7=2054.1(a)(1). >>=20> >>=20>=2024.=20=20=20=20=20=20=20Defendant's=20conduct=20alleged=20herein=20= violates=20the=20DPA,=20including >>=20>=20Cal.=20Civ.=20Code=20=A7=2054.1(a)(1),=20by=20denying=20the=20Pla= intiffs=20full=20and=20equal >>=20access >>=20>=20to=20the=20accommodations,=20advantages=20and=20facilities=20of=20= lsac.org. >>=20> >>=20>=2025.=20=20=20=20=20=20=20As=20a=20result=20of=20Defendant's=20cond= uct,=20the=20NFB,=20the=20NFB=20of >>=20>=20California,=20and=20Ms.=20Goraya=20are=20entitled=20to=20injuncti= ve=20relief=20requiring >>=20>=20Defendant=20to=20make=20lsac.org=20accessible=20to=20blind=20indi= viduals,=20and=20to=20make >>=20>=20the=20LSAT=20test=20practice=20materials=20offered=20to=20lsac.or= g=20patrons=20available >>=20to >>=20>=20blind=20people=20in=20an=20accessible=20format. >>=20> >>=20>=20SECOND=20CAUSE=20OF=20ACTION >>=20> >>=20>=20(Violation=20of=20Cal.Civ.=20Code=20=A7=A7=2051,=20et=20seq.=20-=20= =20The=20Unruh=20Act) >>=20> >>=20>=2026.=20=20=20=20=20=20=20The=20allegations=20contained=20in=20the=20= previous=20paragraphs=20are >>=20>=20incorporated=20by=20reference. >>=20> >>=20>=2027.=20=20=20=20=20=20=20California's=20Unruh=20Act=20requires=20t= hat=20individuals=20with >>=20>=20disabilities=20have=20"full=20and=20equal=20accommodations,=20adv= antages, >facilities, >>=20>=20privileges=20or=20services=20in=20all=20business=20establishments= =20of=20every=20kind >>=20>=20whatsoever."=20=20Cal.=20Civ.=20Code=20=A7=2051(b). >>=20> >>=20>=2028.=20=20=20=20=20=20=20LSAC=20and=20Lsac.org=20are=20business=20= establishments=20as=20that=20term=20is >>=20>=20used=20in=20Cal.=20Civ.=20Code=20=A7=2051(b)=20and=20lsac.org=20i= s=20an=20accommodation, >>=20>=20advantage,=20facility,=20privilege=20and=20service=20of=20LSAC. >>=20> >>=20>=2029.=20=20=20=20=20=20=20Defendant's=20conduct=20alleged=20herein=20= violates=20the=20Unruh=20Act, >>=20>=20including=20Cal.=20Civ.=20Code=20=A7=2051(b),=20by=20denying=20Pl= aintiffs=20the=20full=20and >>=20equal >>=20>=20accommodations,=20advantages,=20facilities,=20privileges=20or=20s= ervices=20of=20LSAC >>=20and >>=20>=20lsac.org. >>=20> >>=20>=2030.=20=20=20=20=20=20=20Defendant=20violated=20the=20Unruh=20Act=20= intentionally=20and/or=20with >>=20>=20deliberate=20indifference=20to=20the=20likelihood=20that=20it=20w= as=20violating=20the >>=20rights >>=20>=20of=20blind=20people=20and/or=20Defendant's=20violations=20were=20= so=20intuitive=20or >>=20obvious >>=20>=20that=20noncompliance=20could=20not=20be=20other=20than=20intentio= nal. >>=20> >>=20>=2031.=20=20=20=20=20=20=20As=20a=20result=20of=20Defendant's=20cond= uct,=20the=20NFB,=20the=20NFB=20of >>=20>=20California,=20and=20Ms.=20Goraya=20are=20entitled=20to=20injuncti= ve=20relief=20requiring >>=20>=20Defendant=20to=20make=20lsac.org=20accessible=20to=20blind=20indi= viduals,=20and=20to=20make >>=20>=20the=20LSAT=20test=20practice=20materials=20offered=20to=20lsac.or= g=20patrons=20available >>=20to >>=20>=20blind=20people=20in=20an=20accessible=20format. >>=20> >>=20> >>=20> >>=20>=20THIRD=20CAUSE=20OF=20ACTION >>=20> >>=20>=20(Declaratory=20Relief,=20Cal.=20Civ.=20Proc.=20=A7=201060=20) >>=20> >>=20>=2032.=20=20=20=20=20=20=20The=20allegations=20contained=20in=20the=20= previous=20paragraphs=20are >>=20>=20incorporated=20by=20reference. >>=20> >>=20>=2033.=20=20=20=20=20=20=20On=20information=20and=20belief,=20Defend= ants=20contend=20that=20they=20may >>=20>=20lawfully=20deny=20Plaintiffs=20access=20to=20their=20website=20an= d=20its=20contents. >>=20>=20=20Plaintiffs=20contend=20that=20lsac.org,=20which=20LSAC=20owns,= =20operates,=20and/or >>=20>=20controls,=20must=20provide=20blind=20patrons=20access=20to=20its=20= website=20and=20website >>=20>=20contents=20under=20California=20Civil=20Code=20=A7=A7=2054,=20et=20= seq.=20and=20California=20Civil >>=20>=20Code=20=A7=A7=2051,=20et=20seq.,=20which=20prohibit=20discriminat= ion=20against=20the=20blind. >>=20> >>=20>=2034.=20=20=20=20=20=20=20A=20judicial=20declaration=20is=20necessa= ry=20and=20appropriate=20at=20this >>=20time >>=20>=20in=20order=20that=20each=20of=20the=20parties=20may=20know=20thei= r=20respective=20rights=20and >>=20>=20duties=20and=20act=20accordingly. >>=20> >>=20>=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20WHEREFORE,=20Plaintiffs=20reques= t=20relief=20as=20set=20forth=20below. >>=20> >>=20>=20RELIEF=20REQUESTED >>=20> >>=20>=20WHEREFORE,=20Plaintiffs=20pray=20for=20judgment=20as=20follows: >>=20> >>=20>=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=201.=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20An=20= order=20enjoining=20LSAC=20from=20violating=20California >>=20>=20Civil=20Code=20=A7=A7=2051,=20et=20seq.=20and=20=A7=A7=2054,=20et= =20seq.; >>=20> >>=20>=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=202.=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20A=20= declaration=20that=20LSAC=20is=20owning,=20maintaining >>=20and/or >>=20>=20operating=20lsac.org=20in=20a=20manner=20which=20discriminates=20= against=20the=20blind=20and >>=20>=20which=20fails=20to=20provide=20access=20for=20persons=20with=20di= sabilities=20as=20required >>=20by >>=20>=20law; >>=20> >>=20>=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=203.=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20Pla= intiffs'=20reasonable=20attorneys'=20fees=20and=20costs >as >>=20>=20authorized=20by=20California=20California=20Civil=20Code=20=A7=A7= =2054,=20et=20seq., >California >>=20>=20Civil=20Code=20=A7=A7=2051,=20et=20seq.,=20and=20pursuant=20to=20= California=20Code=20of=20Civil >>=20>=20Procedure=20=A7=201021.5. >>=20> >>=20>=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=204.=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20Suc= h=20other=20and=20further=20relief=20as=20the=20Court=20deems >>=20just >>=20>=20and=20proper. >>=20> >>=20> >>=20> >>=20>=20DATED: >>=20>=20=20=20DISABILITY=20RIGHTS=20ADVOCATES >>=20> >>=20> >>=20> >>=20> >>=20=20By: >>=20>=20____________________________ >>=20> >>=20> >>=20>=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20Laurence=20W.=20Paradis >>=20> >>=20> >>=20> >>=20> >>=20> >>=20>=20Scott=20C.=20LaBarre,=20Esq. >>=20> >>=20>=20LaBarre=20Law=20Offices=20P.C. >>=20>=201660=20South=20Albion=20Street,=20Ste.=20918 >>=20>=20Denver,=20Colorado=2080222 >>=20>=20303=20504-5979=20(voice) >>=20>=20303=20757-3640=20(fax) >>=20>=20slabarre at labarrelaw.com=20(e-mail) >>=20>=20www.labarrelaw.com=20(website) >>=20> >>=20>=20CONFIDENTIALITY=20NOTICE:=20This=20message=20may=20contain=20conf= idential=20and >>=20>=20privileged=20information.=20If=20you=20are=20not=20the=20designat= ed=20recipient,=20you=20may >>=20not >>=20>=20read,=20copy,=20distribute=20or=20retain=20this=20message.=20If=20= you=20received=20this >>=20message >>=20>=20in=20error,=20please=20notify=20the=20sender=20at=20303)=20504-59= 79=20or >>=20>=20slabarre at labarrelaw.com,=20and=20destroy=20and=20delete=20it=20fr= om=20your=20system. >>=20This >>=20>=20message=20and=20any=20attachments=20are=20covered=20by=20the=20El= ectronic >>=20>=20Communications=20Privacy=20Act,=2018=20U.S.C.=20=A7=A7=202510-252= 1. >>=20>=20_______________________________________________ >>=20>=20blindlaw=20mailing=20list >>=20>=20blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>=20>=20http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>=20>=20To=20unsubscribe,=20change=20your=20list=20options=20or=20get=20y= our=20account=20info=20for >>=20>=20blindlaw: >>=20> >>=20> >> >> >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b75205%40gmail.= com >>=20> >>=20> >>=20_______________________________________________ >>=20blindlaw=20mailing=20list >>=20blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>=20http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>=20To=20unsubscribe,=20change=20your=20list=20options=20or=20get=20your=20= account=20info=20for >>=20blindlaw: >> >> >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/bspiry%40comcas= t.n >>=20et >> >> >>=20_______________________________________________ >>=20blindlaw=20mailing=20list >>=20blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>=20http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>=20To=20unsubscribe,=20change=20your=20list=20options=20or=20get=20your=20= account=20info=20for >>=20blindlaw: >> >> >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b75205%40gmail.= com >> >_______________________________________________ >blindlaw=20mailing=20list >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >To=20unsubscribe,=20change=20your=20list=20options=20or=20get=20your=20ac= count=20info=20for >blindlaw: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/bspiry%40comcas= t.n >et >_______________________________________________ >blindlaw=20mailing=20list >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >To=20unsubscribe,=20change=20your=20list=20options=20or=20get=20your=20ac= count=20info=20for=20 >blindlaw: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotma= il.com >_______________________________________________ >blindlaw=20mailing=20list >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >To=20unsubscribe,=20change=20your=20list=20options=20or=20get=20your=20ac= count=20info=20for=20blindlaw: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie%40mpmail.= net From bspiry at comcast.net Sat Mar 14 04:55:25 2009 From: bspiry at comcast.net (Bill Spiry) Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 21:55:25 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target In-Reply-To: <20090313183610.GA66589@yumi.bluecherry.net> References: <4E8742A18776454A880746AD18B966F5@colorado0f48f8> <5F60EFF2D5FD48A6A428F280C2AE8727@labarre> <547789.45557.qm@web36707.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <002e01c9a382$8265dec0$87319c40$@net> <20090313183610.GA66589@yumi.bluecherry.net> Message-ID: <001301c9a461$16dee860$449cb920$@net> Yep, figured that out just after sending. Thanks. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of T. Joseph Carter Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 11:36 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target I think you missed the subject change. This is about the Target case. Nothing's been settled regarding LSAC yet. Joseph On Thu, Mar 12, 2009 at 07:22:06PM -0700, Bill Spiry wrote: >What kind of proposed resolution is involved here? Will it result in LSAC >providing accessible materials in the immediate future?? _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/bspiry%40comcast.n et From cdborne at gmail.com Sat Mar 14 05:15:54 2009 From: cdborne at gmail.com (Craig Borne) Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 01:15:54 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. lsac complaint In-Reply-To: <49bb3c67.8905be0a.68cc.5e82SMTPIN_ADDED@mx.google.com> References: <49bb3c67.8905be0a.68cc.5e82SMTPIN_ADDED@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <01b801c9a463$f3c9b550$7100a8c0@computer> Angie, I wonder how many ABA accredited schools will follow the ABA's advice. I really believe this is a better way to go, though neither the ABA or law schools in general have solicited my advice. Shame on them. Craig Craig Borne Baltimore, Maryland "A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial appearance of being right, and raises at first a formidable outcry in defense of custom." --Thomas Paine, Common Sense -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Angie Matney Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 12:55 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. lsac complaint Now that the ABA advises schools to only consider the highest score, it would seem to be less likely that a low first score would be considered irreparable harm. Angie On Fri, 13 Mar 2009 02:31:57 -0400, Rod Alcidonis wrote: >Well, academically speaking, the law suit could have prayed for a Temporary >Restraining Order, or a preliminary Injunction against the LSAC for folks >like you. Basically enjoined the LSAC from administering the exam until they >make the changes. The only difficulty with that I think justifies the reason >they probably did not pray for such a relief is that such a measure would >cause too much harm to the public, I.E, the thousands of law students and >schools who rely on the exam to make admissions decisions. Such an order >while it would have forced the LSAC to make the changes much faster, it >would have unreasonably halted the system for some times. If it were a class >action with thousands of members, it probably would have been easier to >argue, I think. Whether not passing an exam for the first time is considered >irreparable harm is another question -- you can still make the argument >under these circumstances. >Rod Alcidonis >Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009. >Roger Williams University School of Law >10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 >Bristol, RI 02809 >Cell: 718-704-4651 >Home: 401-824-8685 >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Bill Spiry" >To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2009 9:52 PM >Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. lsac complaint >I understand. What might be done to getLSAC to authorize use of this >material as an accessible alternative to what they have to offer? I know NFB >is sueing them, but in the mean time that leaves folks like me who don't >have the Adobe skills you have, and facing the LSAT soon without accessible >matter. Any ideas or suggestions? >Thanks. >-----Original Message----- >From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >Behalf Of James Pepper >Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 10:43 AM >To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. lsac complaint >Well Bill the content is copyrighted by LSAC so I am not sure I can send >this to you. Perhaps some on this list can give that advice. I laid it out >properly. >James >On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 9:05 AM, Bill Spiry wrote: >> I would appreciate receiving this as well. Thanks. >> bspiry at comcast.net >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf Of James Pepper >> Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 1:46 AM >> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. lsac complaint >> >> Scott: I laid out the first section of the LSAT to be accessible and I >> can >> send you the files if you would like to see it. Also I made the form that >> they use accessible so the blind can fill out the test without assistance. >> This works with JAWS and Window Eyes and a combination of Adobe's Read out >> Loud and Microsoft Narrator. My process works and if you need references >> at >> NFB, AFB and the AAPD I can send them to you. >> >> It took a while to figure out how they made thier pdfs and I know where >> they >> are making their mistakes. I can correct this problem. These PDFs are >made >> to work natively with JAWS and Adobe Reader and the other screen readers >> without making any adjustments. They work with the default settings in >> Adobe Reader. >> >> Also the forms can be digitally signed and saved and all that fancy stuff >> that you expect with Adobe Acrobat Professional can be done with >> Adobe Reader, versions 8 or 9 which is the free download from Adobe.com. >> So >> we can make the LSAT accessible to anyone with a PC running Windows XP Or >> VIsta without any change of settings. This means the PC can be there for >> the sighted and the blind, with equal access for all. >> >> Also since I labeled everything, it will be a lot quicker for you to fill >> out this test! >> >> Sincerely, >> >> James G. Pepper >> >> >> >> On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 4:32 PM, Scott C. LaBarre >> wrote: >> >> > Below I am sharing the complaint that we filed today in California >Court. >> > ************** >> > LaurEnce W. paradis (California Bar No. 122336) >> > >> > Anna levine (California Bar No. 227881) >> > >> > Disability Rights Advocates >> > >> > 2001 Center Street, Third Floor >> > >> > Berkeley, California 94704 >> > >> > Telephone: (510) 665-8644 >> > >> > Facsimile: (510) 665-8511 >> > >> > TTY: (510) 665-8716 >> > >> > >> > >> > SCOTT LABARRE (to seek pro hac vice admission) >> > >> > LABARRE LAW OFFICES, P.C. >> > >> > 1660 S. Albion Street, Ste 918 >> > >> > Denver, Colo 80222 >> > >> > Telephone: (303) 504-5979 >> > >> > Fax: (303) 757-3640 >> > >> > >> > >> > DANIEL F. GOLDSTEIN (to seek pro hac vice admission) >> > >> > MEHGAN Sidhu (to seek pro hac vice admission) >> > >> > Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP >> > >> > 120 E. Baltimore St., Suite 1700 >> > >> > Baltimore, MD 21202 >> > >> > Telephone: (410) 962-1030 >> > >> > Fax: (410) 385-0869 >> > >> > >> > >> > SUPERIOR COURT OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA >> > COUNTY OF ALAMEDA >> > >> > >> > >> > National Federation of the Blind, the National Federation of the >> Blind >> > of CALIFORNIA, and DEEPA GORAYA, >> > >> > >> > >> > Plaintiffs, >> > >> > v. >> > >> > LAW SCHOOL ADMISSION COUNCIL, INC., >> > >> > Defendant. >> > >> > >> > >> > Case No.: >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > COMPLAINT FOR INJUNCTIVE AND DECLARATORY RELIEF FOR VIOLATIONS OF >> THE >> > CALIFORNIA DISABLED PERSONS ACT AND UNRUH CIVIL RIGHTS ACT >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > INTRODUCTION >> > >> > Plaintiffs complain of Defendant and allege herein as follows: >> > >> > 1. This action, brought by the National Federation of the Blind, >> > the National Federation of the Blind of California, and Deepa Goraya, >> seeks >> > to put an end to civil rights violations committed by defendant Law >> School >> > Admissions Council (hereafter "LSAC") against blind persons seeking to >> take >> > the LSAT exam and apply to law schools. Plaintiff Deepa Goraya, a blind >> law >> > school applicant in California, has been and is being denied equal >access >> to >> > the accommodations, advantages, and facilities LSAC provides its >> > non-disabled customers through http://www.lsac.org (hereafter "lsac.org" >> > and "the website"). Plaintiffs National Federation of the Blind and the >> > National Federation of the Blind of California have members who are >> > similarly denied full and equal access to such accommodations, >advantages >> > and facilities. Lsac.org is currently the only place online where >> > prospective law students can register for the Law School Admissions Test >> > ("LSAT"), apply to law schools, and obtain official LSAT test >preparation >> > materials and information. Lsac.org contains multiple access barriers >> that >> > make it difficult if not impossible for blind law school applicants and >> LSAT >> > test takers to use the website and to obtain practice materials without >> > sighted assistance. LSAC thus excludes the blind, including Ms. Goraya, >> > from full and equal access to the accommodations, advantages, >facilities, >> > and privileges of lsac.org. >> > >> > JURISDICTION >> > >> > 2. This is a civil action under California's Disabled Persons >Act >> > (Cal. Civ. Code '' 54, et seq.) and the Unruh Civil Rights Act (Cal. >Civ. >> > Code '' 51, et seq.) and for declaratory relief. This Court has >> > jurisdiction over the claims alleged herein pursuant to California Civil >> > Code '' 54, et seq. and California Civil Code '' 51, et seq. and >> California >> > Code of Civil Procedure section 1060. >> > >> > 3. This Court has jurisdiction over LSAC because LSAC is a >> > corporation authorized to do business in California and LSAC conducts >> > substantial business in California. LSAC owns, maintains and operates >its >> > website, lsac.org, throughout California and in Alameda County. >> > >> > >> > >> > VENUE >> > >> > 4. Venue is proper in Alameda County because liability arises in >> > part in Alameda County, where the National Federation of the Blind of >> > California has its headquarters. LSAC has been and is committing the >> acts >> > alleged herein in Alameda County, has been and is violating the rights >of >> > patrons in Alameda County, and has been and is causing injury to patrons >> in >> > Alameda County. >> > >> > 5. Plaintiff Goraya is a California citizen and has experienced >> > injury in California as a result of LSAC's inaccessible website and >> practice >> > materials. >> > >> > PARTIES >> > >> > 6. Plaintiff the National Federation of the Blind (hereafter >> "NFB") >> > is a national advocacy organization. The NFB, the oldest and largest >> > national organization of blind persons, is a non-profit corporation duly >> > organized under the laws of the District of Columbia with its principal >> > place of business in Baltimore, Maryland. It has affiliates in all 50 >> > states (including California) as well as Washington, D.C. and Puerto >> Rico. >> > The vast majority of the approximately 50,000 members are blind >persons. >> > The NFB is widely recognized by the public, Congress, executive >agencies >> of >> > government and the courts as a collective and representative voice on >> behalf >> > of blind Americans and their families. The purpose of the NFB is to >> promote >> > the general welfare of the blind by (1) assisting the blind in their >> efforts >> > to integrate themselves into society on terms of equality and (2) >> removing >> > barriers and changing social attitudes, stereotypes and mistaken beliefs >> > that sighted and blind persons hold concerning the limitations created >by >> > blindness resulting in the denial of opportunity to blind persons in >> > virtually every sphere of life. The NFB and many of its members have >> long >> > been actively involved in promoting adaptive technology for the blind, >so >> > that blind persons can live and work independently in today's >> > technology-dependent world. NFB members reside throughout the United >> > States, including the state of California, and many of its members would >> use >> > the services of lsac.org if this website is made independently usable by >> > the blind. >> > >> > 7. Plaintiff the National Federation of the Blind of California >> > (hereafter "NFB of California") is a state affiliate of the National >> > Federation of the Blind. NFB of California is a California corporation >> and >> > carries out NFB's objectives at the state level. It has local chapters >> > throughout California, including Alameda County, and has its >headquarters >> in >> > Fremont, California, in Alameda County. >> > >> > 8. Plaintiff Goraya is a member of the NFB and the NFB of >> > California. She is blind and has been denied full and equal access to >> the >> > accommodations, advantages, facilities and privileges of lsac.org. >> > >> > 9. Defendant LSAC, is a non-profit corporation >> > established to coordinate, facilitate, and enhance the law school >> admissions >> > process. LSAC owns, operates and/or maintains the website lsac.com, a >> > public accommodation. Plaintiffs seek access to the services provided >by >> > LSAC in California through lsac.org. >> > >> > FACTS >> > >> > 10. Lsac.org is owned, controlled and/or operated by LSAC. >> Lsac.org >> > is a public accommodation that offers its visitors comprehensive >services >> > for applying to law school. The website functions as the official >> > destination for guiding prospective law school applicants through the >> > fundamental steps of applying to law school. Among its services, >> lsac.orgoffers information about the LSAT and law school application >> process, and >> > extensive LSAT preparation materials and resources. Lsac.org also >serves >> as >> > the exclusive online means for registering for the LSAT and applying to >> > ABA-accredited law schools. >> > >> > 11. According to the website, lsac.org's online services enable >> > prospective law students to do the following, among other things: >> > >> > a.. Register for the LSAT >> > b.. Register for the LSDAS (Law School Data Assembly Service) >> > c.. Purchase publications and test preparation materials >> > d.. Have access to electronic applications for all ABA-approved law >> > schools >> > e.. Apply online to law schools >> > f.. Register for law school forums >> > g.. Have 24-hour file access >> > 12. In addition to facilitating the LSAT and law school application >> > processes, a significant portion of the lsac.org website is devoted to >> > preparing students to take the LSAT. Among the services offered in that >> > regard are online information guides that explain how to prepare for the >> > LSAT and free, downloadable sample practice tests and test questions. >> > Lsac.org also offers for a fee an online LSAT practice test tool and >the >> > opportunity to purchase more than 40 official LSAT practice tests. >> > >> > 13. While sighted visitors to lsac.org can easily obtain the benefits >> and >> > advantages offered by the website, blind individuals, including Ms. >> Goraya, >> > have been and are being denied access to lsac.org due to LSAC's failure >> > and refusal to remove access barriers to lsac.org. Specifically, blind >> > visitors to the website, including Ms. Goraya, cannot independently >apply >> to >> > law school, register for the LSAT, or obtain in an accessible format the >> > LSAT preparation materials and practice tests available through lsac.org >> . >> > >> > 14. The blind access websites by using keyboards in conjunction >> with >> > screen-reading software. This software vocalizes or conveys to a >> refreshable >> > Braille display information that appears visually on a computer screen. >> > Unless websites are designed to allow for use in this manner, blind >> persons >> > are unable to fully access the internet websites and the information, >> > products and services contained therein. >> > >> > 15. There are well-established guidelines for making websites >> > accessible to the blind. These guidelines have been in place for at >> least >> > several years and have been followed successfully by other public >> > accommodations in making their online services accessible. The Web >> > Accessibility Initiative (WAI), a project of the World Wide Web >> Consortium, >> > which is the leading standards organization for the Web, has developed >> > guidelines for making information that is reached via the internet >> > accessible. The federal government has also promulgated accessibility >> > standards under Section 508 of the Rehabilitation Act. These guidelines >> > have long been readily available via the internet so that any public >> > accommodation could easily secure the necessary information. >> > >> > 16. Lsac.org contains a variety of access barriers that prevent >> free >> > and full use by blind persons using keyboards and screen reading >> software. >> > These barriers include but are not limited to: lack of or improperly >> > labeled form controls; faulty keyboard navigation; and use of tables and >> > charts that are not formatted for accessibility. Form controls allow >> users >> > to input data on online forms and applications. These controls must be >> > coded and labeled to allow screen-access software to detect and vocalize >> the >> > requested information. Keyboard navigation refers to the ability to >> > successfully navigate a website using keyboard commands, as opposed to >> > requiring a mouse as the exclusive means for navigation of the site. >> > Further, charts and tables must be formatted to work with screen-access >> > software. Much of the lsac.org website, and in particular the online >> law >> > school application and LSAT registration sections of the website, lack >> these >> > fundamental accessibility components. As a result, blind visitors to >the >> > website cannot independently use those and other critical features. >> > >> > 17. Lsac.org's test preparation materials that are available on >the >> > website in Adobe Portable Document (PDF) format, are not properly >> "tagged." >> > This means that the headings, paragraphs, tables, image descriptions >and >> > form controls are not easily discernable to screen-reading software. As >> a >> > result, these materials are cumbersome, if not impossible, for a blind >> > visitor to navigate. >> > >> > 18. Finally, lsac.org fails to offer LSAT practice tests, >> available >> > as part of its test preparation services, in formats accessible to the >> > blind. While the sighted can easily use the website to obtain more than >> 40 >> > formerly administered LSAT practice tests, the website fails to offer >the >> > opportunity to purchase these practice materials in formats accessible >to >> > the blind, such as Braille or an accessible electronic format. >> > >> > 19. As a result of lsac.org's accessibility barriers, blind law >> > school applicants, including Ms. Goraya, must go over extraordinary >> hurdles >> > to register and prepare for the LSAT and to apply to law school compared >> to >> > their sighted counterparts. After unsuccessfully attempting to use >> > lsac.org independently to register for the LSAT and fill out her law >> > school applications, for example, Plaintiff Goraya was forced to select >> and >> > rely upon a reader for over 50 hours simply to read aloud the content of >> the >> > website and complete her law school applications. Moreover, none of the >> > LSAT practice materials, which include previously administered versions >> of >> > the test, were available to her in accessible electronic formats. >> Lsac.org >> > thus contains numerous access barriers which deny full and equal access >> to >> > Plaintiff, who would otherwise use the accommodations, advantages, and >> > facilities of lsac.org. >> > >> > 20. On December 10, 2008, Plaintiff National Federation of the >> Blind >> > notified LSAC of the unlawful accessibility barriers on its website. >> LSAC >> > responded by setting up and then canceling a meeting with the NFB. On >> > January 22, 2009, the NFB notified LSAC that it intended to pursue legal >> > action against LSAC for the unlawful barriers on its website. >> > >> > FIRST CAUSE OF ACTION >> > >> > (Violation of Cal. Civ. Code '' 54, et seq. - the Disabled Persons Act) >> > >> > 21. The allegations contained in the previous paragraphs are >> > incorporated by reference. >> > >> > 22. The Disabled Persons Act ("DPA") requires that individuals >with >> > disabilities have "full and equal access, as other members of the >general >> > public, to accommodations, advantages, facilities, . . . and other >places >> to >> > which the general public is invited, subject only to the conditions and >> > limitations established by law, or state or federal regulation, and >> > applicable alike to all persons." Cal. Civ. Code 54.1(a)(1). >> > >> > 23. Lsac.org, which is owned, operated and/or maintained by LSAC, >> is >> > an >> > >> > accommodation, advantage, facility and/or place to which the general >> public >> > is invited, as those terms are used in Cal. Civ. Code ' 54.1(a)(1). >> > >> > 24. Defendant's conduct alleged herein violates the DPA, including >> > Cal. Civ. Code ' 54.1(a)(1), by denying the Plaintiffs full and equal >> access >> > to the accommodations, advantages and facilities of lsac.org. >> > >> > 25. As a result of Defendant's conduct, the NFB, the NFB of >> > California, and Ms. Goraya are entitled to injunctive relief requiring >> > Defendant to make lsac.org accessible to blind individuals, and to make >> > the LSAT test practice materials offered to lsac.org patrons available >> to >> > blind people in an accessible format. >> > >> > SECOND CAUSE OF ACTION >> > >> > (Violation of Cal.Civ. Code '' 51, et seq. - The Unruh Act) >> > >> > 26. The allegations contained in the previous paragraphs are >> > incorporated by reference. >> > >> > 27. California's Unruh Act requires that individuals with >> > disabilities have "full and equal accommodations, advantages, >facilities, >> > privileges or services in all business establishments of every kind >> > whatsoever." Cal. Civ. Code ' 51(b). >> > >> > 28. LSAC and Lsac.org are business establishments as that term is >> > used in Cal. Civ. Code ' 51(b) and lsac.org is an accommodation, >> > advantage, facility, privilege and service of LSAC. >> > >> > 29. Defendant's conduct alleged herein violates the Unruh Act, >> > including Cal. Civ. Code ' 51(b), by denying Plaintiffs the full and >> equal >> > accommodations, advantages, facilities, privileges or services of LSAC >> and >> > lsac.org. >> > >> > 30. Defendant violated the Unruh Act intentionally and/or with >> > deliberate indifference to the likelihood that it was violating the >> rights >> > of blind people and/or Defendant's violations were so intuitive or >> obvious >> > that noncompliance could not be other than intentional. >> > >> > 31. As a result of Defendant's conduct, the NFB, the NFB of >> > California, and Ms. Goraya are entitled to injunctive relief requiring >> > Defendant to make lsac.org accessible to blind individuals, and to make >> > the LSAT test practice materials offered to lsac.org patrons available >> to >> > blind people in an accessible format. >> > >> > >> > >> > THIRD CAUSE OF ACTION >> > >> > (Declaratory Relief, Cal. Civ. Proc. ' 1060 ) >> > >> > 32. The allegations contained in the previous paragraphs are >> > incorporated by reference. >> > >> > 33. On information and belief, Defendants contend that they may >> > lawfully deny Plaintiffs access to their website and its contents. >> > Plaintiffs contend that lsac.org, which LSAC owns, operates, and/or >> > controls, must provide blind patrons access to its website and website >> > contents under California Civil Code '' 54, et seq. and California Civil >> > Code '' 51, et seq., which prohibit discrimination against the blind. >> > >> > 34. A judicial declaration is necessary and appropriate at this >> time >> > in order that each of the parties may know their respective rights and >> > duties and act accordingly. >> > >> > WHEREFORE, Plaintiffs request relief as set forth below. >> > >> > RELIEF REQUESTED >> > >> > WHEREFORE, Plaintiffs pray for judgment as follows: >> > >> > 1. An order enjoining LSAC from violating California >> > Civil Code '' 51, et seq. and '' 54, et seq.; >> > >> > 2. A declaration that LSAC is owning, maintaining >> and/or >> > operating lsac.org in a manner which discriminates against the blind and >> > which fails to provide access for persons with disabilities as required >> by >> > law; >> > >> > 3. Plaintiffs' reasonable attorneys' fees and costs >as >> > authorized by California California Civil Code '' 54, et seq., >California >> > Civil Code '' 51, et seq., and pursuant to California Code of Civil >> > Procedure ' 1021.5. >> > >> > 4. Such other and further relief as the Court deems >> just >> > and proper. >> > >> > >> > >> > DATED: >> > DISABILITY RIGHTS ADVOCATES >> > >> > >> > >> > >> By: >> > ____________________________ >> > >> > >> > Laurence W. Paradis >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. >> > >> > LaBarre Law Offices P.C. >> > 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 >> > Denver, Colorado 80222 >> > 303 504-5979 (voice) >> > 303 757-3640 (fax) >> > slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) >> > www.labarrelaw.com (website) >> > >> > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and >> > privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may >> not >> > read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this >> message >> > in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or >> > slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. >> This >> > message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic >> > Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. '' 2510-2521. >> > _______________________________________________ >> > blindlaw mailing list >> > blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> > blindlaw: >> > >> > >> >> >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b75205%40gmail.co m >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> >> >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/bspiry%40comcast. n >> et >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> >> >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b75205%40gmail.co m >> >_______________________________________________ >blindlaw mailing list >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >blindlaw: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/bspiry%40comcast. n >et >_______________________________________________ >blindlaw mailing list >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >blindlaw: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail .com >_______________________________________________ >blindlaw mailing list >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie%40mpmail.ne t From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Sat Mar 14 05:16:34 2009 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 22:16:34 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] comments needed regarding policy for audiblepedestriansignals In-Reply-To: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6B26D659@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local> References: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6B26D659@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local> Message-ID: <3EF776BCF9174299958856D958862DCE@spike> thanks. Some of the audible signals that have been installed thus far installed at appropriate intersections. Others have been installed ast places where there is a low volume of traffic and where there is a low demand. Apparently they are wanting to have a more a systematic approach in place to determine where signals will be installed in the future. We have many intersections where there are medians crossing several wide streets where they have not been installed. On these I personally prefer to at times to divide the crossing in to two sections to pay more attention to traffic flow. There is another location where they should probably build a pedestrian crossing either above or below ground. There is a precedent for a couple of below ground crossings one in downtown Fresno that was built in the 60's and one that was just opened a couple of years ago to go under railroad tracks that cut through the campus of the local community college. There have been some above ground pedestrian crossings of major roads and freeways to benefit children going to school. As a long-time cane user trained long before audible signals were fashionable or feasible I still believe that traffic flow is the best audible signal. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "McCarthy, Jim" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 6:58 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] comments needed regarding policy for audiblepedestriansignals > Chuck, > I am happy to talk through this with you off line if you would prefer. > Nevertheless, I will offer my immediate thoughts after reading. It is a > little unclear what the goal is. This process is to prioritize > intersections giving those most in need APS first. I am convinced that > there are several signalized (light controlled) intersections that do not > need these devices. However, this might be a way to provide APS at all > signalized intersections in time and that may be what the Access-Board > will come to require. > > I think it is good to have as a part of the evaluation team a blind person > and a deaf blind person when the requester is deaf blind or serves that > community. I have always found it problematic though when cities say that > the centers blind people use should have some super priority. I lived in > Portland Oregon and the west part of the city was hilly with curvy > streets. Many were not straight and some had high speed traffic. > However, the audible traffic signals were almost never in those > neighborhoods (the better ones I might add) because it was assumed that > blind people did not frequent them. To me that is a ghettoizing > assumption that results from this process. I do think that public transit > centers and such places should have greater attention paid though and this > document would do that. > > Finally, in the main, I think that the traffic and street configuration > factors are as they should be. I think that the locations with the > greatest need based on these factors should be the first to receive > signals. The Fresno process is similar to others I have seen, though I > would prefer that the evaluation group use the factors and evaluate all > signalized intersections using the factors more than whether and how > many requests were made. > Jim McCarthy > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net > Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2009 8:21 AM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: [blindlaw] comments needed regarding policy for audible > pedestriansignals > > The City of Fresno is proposing the policy shown below to evaluate the > installation of audible traffic signals. As this is outside my expertise I > would appreciate any comments regarding this document. Please feel free to > contact me off list if needed. > Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal > 1237 P Street > Fresno ca 93721 > 559-266-9237 > > > APS Policy-03-09-LP .pdf > DRAFT ACCESSIBLE PEDESTRIAN SIGNALS (APS) INTERSECTION EVALUATION > PROCEDURE BACKGROUND Accessible Pedestrian Signals (APS), also known as > audible pedestrian signals, are devices that communicate information about > pedestrian timing in nonvisual format such as audible tones, verbal > messages, and/or vibrating surfaces. APS are used in conjunction with > standard pedestrian activated traffic signals to provide the following > information to pedestrians: > list of 4 items > б· > Existence of and location of the pedestrian pushbutton б· Beginning of the > pedestrian WALK interval б· Direction of the crosswalk and location of the > destination curb б· Clearance signal interval list end They are used to > assist blind and visually impaired persons and other persons with > disabilities of all ages to cross at designated streets and intersections. > PURPOSE > The purpose of this evaluation policy is to set forth factors to be used > by the City of Fresno's Public Works Department, in cooperation with the > City of Fresno's Disability Advisory Commission, in developing a priority > listing of signalized intersection candidates to be retrofitted with > audible devices that will provide guidance for the blind community and > visually impaired persons and other persons with disabilities of all ages > to cross certain streets. > POLICY > It is the policy of the City Council that the retrofitting of existing > traffic signals with APS shall be based on factors established herein and > that such measurements and computations as may be required in determining > priority rating of candidate locations shall be the responsibility of the > Public Works Department. > It should be noted that in special situations, an APS should not be > installed because of the adverse affect it could have on pedestrian safety > as a result of the overall traffic circulation pattern of an area, or > unusual geometric conditions where an APS would not provide the safety > benefits necessary for the blind or visually impaired individuals to cross > a street. It should also be noted that some traffic signals cannot be > retrofitted with APS without major costly modifications. Retrofitting of > traffic signals with APS shall be subject to approval by the City > Engineer. > Important: APS are utilized to help blind and visually impaired travelers > recognize when a WALK signal is operating in a given direction. An APS may > enhance the safety of blind travelers in two ways: > list of 1 items > 1. > Lessens the chance of a blind or visually impaired pedestrian misjudging > when the walk phase is operating, thereby lessening the chance of > accidentally crossing against a signal. > list end > list of 1 items > 2. > Helps blind and visually impaired pedestrians recognize immediately when > the walk phase begins, permitting them to cross the street in a timely > fashion, thereby lessening the chance of being in the intersection when > the signal changes. > list end > However, it is important to recognize that the APS does not and cannot > assure the blind and visually impaired pedestrians that there will be no > potential traffic conflicts while crossing when the APS is operating. In > particular, the blind and visually impaired pedestrians should be aware of > at least four possible conflicts. > list of 4 items > 1. > Vehicles may be still clearing the intersection when the APS comes on. > 2. > Vehicles may fail to stop for the red light. This is particularly common > for motorists attempting to enter on a yellow light. > 3. > Motorists may stop and make a right turn on red while watching traffic on > their left but may fail to notice pedestrians on their right. > 4. > Vehicles may have right and left turns on the same phase as the > pedestrian. > list end > Because of these potential conflicts, it is important that the blind or > visually impaired traveler exercise due caution for his or her well-being > when crossing a street, whether or not it is equipped with APS. It is > especially important that blind and visually impaired travelers be > properly trained by certified orientation and mobility specialists in safe > travel techniques on the public right-of-way. > EVALUATION PROCEDURE (See attached "Evaluation Form.") The following basic > considerations and evaluation factors shall be utilized to determine > whether a location is eligible to be a candidate for APS and to determine > its relative position on the priority list. Evaluation and scoring of > factors will be conducted by an evaluation team consisting of a certified > orientation-mobility specialist, a visually impaired/blind traveler and a > traffic engineer. Candidate locations shall be requested by the City of > Fresno Disability Advisory Commission, its working groups, and constituent > requests to the ADA Coordinator's office. > Candidate locations will be evaluated by means of the sample evaluation > sheet attached. > I. BASIC CONSIDERATIONS: > APS normally will be considered for installation only if the following > conditions are met: > list of 5 items > A. > Intersections must be signalized. > B. > Signals must be susceptible to retrofitting. > C. > Signals should be equipped with pedestrian signal actuations. (See also > section on "Signals without Pedestrian Actuations.") D. > Location must be suitable to installation of audible signals, in terms of > surrounding land use, noise level and neighborhood acceptance. > E. > There must be a demonstrated need for the audible signals in the form of a > request from an individual or group that would use the audible signal. > list end > II EVALUATION FACTORS > The following factors shall be used to establish a priority listing for > potential audible traffic signal candidates. Candidates will be arranged > in priority order of those with the highest total points (100 points > maximum) on top and then in descending order. The scoring of factors will > be conducted by an evaluation team consistent of a mobility specialist, a > visually impaired/blind traveler and a traffic engineer. If the request > for an APS was made by a deaf blind individual, or by representative of an > organization serving deaf blind pedestrians in order to improve access in > their geographic area, the evaluation team may also include a deaf blind > rater. The decision whether to include a deaf blind rater will be made by > the City Engineer. > A) Intersection Safety > 1. Accident Records: Past pedestrian accident experience at the > intersection will be used as an indication of potential safety > performance. Points will be based on pedestrian accidents reported by the > City of Fresno's Police Department. > > table with 3 columns and 6 rows > Pedestrian Accidents > Period > Points > 1 > 4 years > 1 > 2 > 4 years > 2 > 3 > 4 years > 3 > 4 > 4 years > 4 > 5 or more > 4 years > 5 > table end > > 2. Intersection Configuration: The number of approaches to an intersection > and their geometric configuration (offset, skewed, etc.) affect the > ability of the blind and visually impaired persons crossing the roadway. > In particular, traffic at 3-leg intersections tends not to provide > adequate audible clues for the blind to permit them to effectively judge > the signal phase. > > table with 2 columns and 6 rows > Configuration > Points > 4-leg right angle intersection > 1 > 3-leg T-intersection > 2 > 3 or 4-leg skewed intersection > 3 > 4-leg offset intersection > 4 > Other complex or multiple leg intersections > 5 > table end > > Note: Intersections with 5 or more legs will require special design. > 3. Intersection Signalization: Pre-timed intersections are the easiest for > blind pedestrian because the phase interval is constant and can be > observed over time. Vehicle actuated intersections are more difficult, > because the pedestrian interval may be of different lengths or skipped all > together. Split-phasing can provide confusing auditory information, as a > traveler may interpret left-turning vehicles as a parallel traffic surge. > > table with 2 columns and 5 rows > Signalization > Points > Pre-timed > 0 > Vehicle Actuated > 2 > Split Phasing > 4 > Exclusive Ped Phase (for future reference) > 5 > table end > > 4. > Width of Crossing: > Wider streets are more difficult for blind travelers to cross. If > each leg of the intersection has a different width, points will be > assigned on the > basis of the widest street on which pedestrians are permitted to cross. > Crossing > width will be measured at the point pedestrians normally cross the street. > Islands > and medians will be included in the total crossing distance even if they > are > equipped with separate pedestrian signal actuators. These points will be > apportioned based upon the greatest width of the crossing at the subject > intersection. > > table with 2 columns and 7 rows > Width of Crossing > Points > 40 feet or less > 0 > 40 to 59 feet > 1 > 60 to 79 feet > 2 > 80 to 99 feet > 3 > 100 -119 > 4 > 120 feet or more > 5 > table end > > 5. Vehicle Speed: The speed of approaching traffic reflects the ability of > approaching traffic to stop for a pedestrian clearing the intersection as > the lights > change. Audible signals help blind pedestrians get a timely start at the > beginning > of the walk phase, thereby permitting clearing the intersection in a > timely manner. > Points are assigned on the basis of the 85 percentile speed on the fastest > approach leg. More points are assigned on the basis of higher speeds. > > table with 2 columns and 6 rows > Speed Range > Points > 0 - 25 mph > 1 > 26 - 30 mph > 2 > 31 - 35 mph > 3 > 36 - 40 mph > 4 > 41 mph or over > 5 > table end > > B. Crosswalk Characteristics > These points will be apportioned based upon the highest-scoring > characteristics of any of the > crosswalks at the intersection. For example, if any of the crosswalks at > an intersection have a > median island protruding into an intersection, then the intersection will > receive the two points > allotted for that characteristic. > list of 1 items > (a) > Location of Pedestrian Push Button. Pedestrian push buttons that are too > far from > the intersection can present difficulties for blind pedestrians. They may > make it > harder for an individual to use the button as a cue for alignment and/or > to push the > button and cross in the same cycle. > list end > > table with 2 columns and 4 rows > Location of Pedestrian Actuations > Points > One or more ped pushbuttons located > 10 ft from curb > 1 > One or more ped pushbuttons located > 5 ft from crosswalk extended > 2 > One or more ped pushbuttons out of alignment with direction of travel > 2 > table end > > list of 1 items > (b) > Median Islands Blind pedestrians have difficulties interpreting traffic > clues at > medians and islands. Efforts should be made to permit the blind to cross > in one > continuous movement. In such cases, signal timing should be extended to > accommodate the full crossing. Divided streets with or without a > pedestrian signal > actuator in the median will be handled as a single crossing, with the > width measured > across the entire street. > list end > > table with 2 columns and 2 rows > Median Island > Points > Protruding into crosswalk, or cut through. > 2 > table end > > list of 1 items > (c) > Alignment of Crosswalk. A skewed crosswalk is one in which the direction > of travel > on the crosswalk differs from that on the approaching sidewalk. In this > context, > skew is not defined as the angle at which streets intersect. If a blind > pedestrian > walking a straight line from the approaching sidewalk is headed toward > parallel > traffic lanes, the crosswalk is skewed. If the pedestrian would end up > deviating from > the crosswalk, but would still arrive at the opposite corner, the > crosswalk is not > defined as skewed for this purpose. > list end > Skewed Crosswalk > 4 > (d) Distance to Alternative APS > > table with 2 columns and 6 rows > Distance to Alternative APS Crosswalk > Points > 1 block > 0 > 2 blocks > 0 > 3 blocks > 2 > 4 blocks > 2 > 5 or more blocks > 3 > table end > > (e) Requests for APS > New requests for APS will be recorded by the ADA Coordinator. Requestors > will be > asked to specify the reason for the request (e.g. proximity on a route to > school or work), > the difficulty they encounter at the intersection, and the time of day > that presents the > greatest difficulty. This information may be used by the Orientation and > Mobility > Evaluation team in assessing the intersection. > > table with 2 columns and 4 rows > APS Requests > Points > 1 request > 1 > 2 recent documented requests > 2 > 3 or more recent, documented requests > 3-4 > table end > > B) Pedestrian Usage > Blind pedestrians share many characteristics with the sighted population > in that they go to public > places, business, social, educational and medical facilities. At the same > time they have > special needs. For example, they may have a greater reliance on public > transportation than > sighted persons. Audible signals should be placed with the view of > improving mobility of blind > persons and making more facilities accessible to them. Proximity of > signals to these facilities > may assure a greater degree of utilization. > list of 1 items > 1. > Proximity to facilities for people who are blind or visually impaired: > This includes the > Department of Rehabilitation, Social Security offices, Valley Center for > the Blind and > other similar facilities. Special consideration may be given to senior > citizens complexes > or public housing facilities that have one or more blind or visually > impaired persons in > residence. Points are assigned on the basis of blocks or distance (1 block > equals 400 > feet) from proposed APS site to subject facility. The closer the two are, > the more points > are assigned. > list end > > table with 2 columns and 6 rows > Proximity > Points > 4 to 6 blocks > 2 > 3 blocks > 4 > 2 blocks > 6 > 1 block > 8 > At subject facility > 10 > table end > > 2. Proximity to key facilities utilized by all pedestrians (blind and > sighted.): This includes > medical, educational, social, recreational, shopping, commercial, > business, public and > governmental facilities. Points are assigned on the basis of blocks or > distance (1 block > equals 400 feet) from proposed APS site to subject facility. In case of > multiple facilities, > points will be assigned on the basis of the closest facility. > > table with 2 columns and 6 rows > Proximity > Points > 4 to 6 blocks > 1 > 3 blocks > 2 > 2 blocks > 3 > 1 block > 4 > At subject facility > 5 > table end > > 3. Access to public transit: Because blind and visually impaired persons > rely heavily upon > public transportation (bus or trolley), special consideration will be > given to those > proposed APS sites that have heavy general use, serves any of the > facilities indicated > above (Ref. B-1 and B-2), or serves as a transfer point and serves 2 or > more transit > routes within a one-block walking distance. > list of 1 items > a) > Number of transit stops and/or transit routes within one block of proposed > audible > signal site. > list end > > table with 2 columns and 6 rows > Number of Routes and Stops > Points > 1 - 2 routes and 1 stop > 1 > 3 or more routes and 1 stop > 2 > 1 - 2 routes and 2 stops > 3 > 3 or more routes and 2 stops > 4 > 2 or more routes and more than 2 stops > 5 > table end > > b) Passenger usage is based upon the total passengers boarding and > debarking each > day at a transit stop or transfer point within a one-block walking > distance. > > table with 2 columns and 7 rows > Passengers Boarding and Debarking Each Day > Points > 0 - 49 > 0 > 50-149 > 1 > 150-249 > 2 > 250-499 > 3 > 500-999 > 4 > 1,000 and over > 5 > table end > > C) Traffic Conditions > Vehicle volumes, traffic distribution, traffic congestion and flow > characteristics may assist or > impede the blind traveler in crossing an intersection. Blind pedestrians > can function best when > crossing signalized intersections that are at right angles with a moderate > but steady flow of > traffic through the intersection on each leg and with a minimum of turning > movements (right or > left turns). Traffic that stops on each leg during each signal cycle is > particularly helpful. Traffic > that is either light, or very heavy, or erratic in its flow makes it > difficult for the blind traveler to > pick up audible clues as to whether the light is red or green. In such > cases, audible signals will > assist in determining when it is possible to cross the street. Points may > be assigned by the > evaluation team based upon their perception of the relative importance of > each of these factors > (which are not necessarily dependent upon the total average daily > traffic). Candidate locations > may score up to a maximum of 5 points for each of the following factors > depending upon overall > traffic distribution. > > table with 3 columns and 6 rows > Heavy Traffic Flow > Vehicles per hour > Points > Approach traffic on all legs is in excess of 2,000 vehicles per hour > during any peak hour. > 2,000 - 2,999 > 1 > Approach traffic on all legs is in excess of 2,000 vehicles per hour > during any peak hour. > 3,000 - 3,999 > 2 > Approach traffic on all legs is in excess of 2,000 vehicles per hour > during any peak hour. > 4,000 - 4,999 > 3 > Approach traffic on all legs is in excess of 2,000 vehicles per hour > during any peak hour. > 5,000 - 5,999 > 4 > Approach traffic on all legs is in excess of 2,000 vehicles per hour > during any peak hour. > 6,000 and over > 5 > table end > > table with 3 columns and 7 rows > Off Peak Traffic Presence Direction 1 > Points > At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, > expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. > Constant (б≥ 90%) > 0 > At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, > expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. > Heavy (70-80%) > 1 > At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, > expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. > Moderate (50-60%) > 2 > At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, > expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. > Light (30-40%) > 3 > At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, > expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. > Occasional (<30%) > 4 > At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, > expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. > None (no through lanes to create surge noise. > 5 > table end > > table with 3 columns and 7 rows > Off Peak Traffic Presence > Direction 2 > Points > At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, > expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. > Constant (б≥ 90%) > 0 > At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, > expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. > Heavy (70-80%) > 1 > At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, > expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. > Moderate (50-60%) > 2 > At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, > expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. > Light (30-40%) > 3 > At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, > expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. > Occasional (<30%) > 4 > At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, > expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. > None (no through lanes to create surge noise. > 5 > table end > > E.) Mobility Evaluation > Each intersection being considered for audible signals should be evaluated > by a certified > orientation and mobility specialist. Based on the judgment of the O-M > specialist and the > evaluation team, additional points may be assigned based on observed or > special conditions not > adequately covered by any of the previous factors. This may include a > heavy right-turn volume, > right-turn island, right-turn signals, limited cone of "visibility", etc. > Points > Mobility and miscellaneous factors > 0-15 > Signals without Pedestrian Actuations > Signalized intersections without pedestrian actuations may be considered > for evaluation under > this priority system, provided the following conditions are met: > list of 3 items > 1. > There must be a demonstrated problem or need that can be alleviated by the > installation of an audible signal in the form of a request from an > individual or group > that would use the audible signal. > 2. > The evaluation team must unanimously concur with the need. > 3. > Appropriate pedestrian actuation buttons and circuits must be provided as > part of the > APS installation. > list end > Accessible Signals at New Signal Installations > Accessible signals will be considered for new signal installation if it is > determined that > installation is warranted by the criteria established above. > Public Notice of Installation of Accessible Signals > The City recognizes that the installation of an APS may be of interest to > the community, > especially residents in the immediate vicinity of the candidate > intersection. In addition, research > has indicated that APS are more effectively used by blind and visually > impaired pedestrians if > they have notice of its location and a basic understanding of the type of > signal installed. > Accordingly, the Director of Public Works will provide a notice to > neighbors in a 350 feet radius > from the intersection of the proposed installation of an APS at that site, > and invite concerned > citizens to contact him in writing. In addition, the Department of Public > Works will issue press > releases and informing the public and organizations serving people with > disabilities, especially > visual impairments, of type and location of proposed and installed APS. > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jmccarthy%40nfb.org > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net > From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Sat Mar 14 08:35:19 2009 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 01:35:19 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target In-Reply-To: <489BACB231A24B1494701FE7E81396B8@StevePC> References: <549FC55C53E54BA5814FA71C231CE71F@StevePC> <489BACB231A24B1494701FE7E81396B8@StevePC> Message-ID: As an individual I am insulted and damaged each time I am discriminated by a business not accommodating my ability to access their products and services, especially on the Internet when I have made sure that I have accommodated myself with the most up-to-date software to mitigate my needs as a blind person. I should not have to rely on sighted assistance to use a product or do without because the greedy corporations has chosen the most expedient road to sell their products. I am also insulted that you are posting this question. I have in my life time been sold out by too many blind people that thought they knew what I needed and I hope more companies will have to pay damages in these types of cases. Perhaps they will then learn how to meet the needs of all their customers. Fortunately here in California we have some laws with some teeth in them that are enforceable--although these teeth still need a good sharpening. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. Deeley" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 6:22 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target That is a lawyer talking who makes his living in rediculous situations like this one. Again, you show me how an individual was damaged and out $4,000.00. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott C. LaBarre" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 5:38 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target Violation of civil rights has long been recognized as a form of compensible legal damage as well it should be. Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. LaBarre Law Offices P.C. 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 Denver, Colorado 80222 303 504-5979 (voice) 303 757-3640 (fax) slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) www.labarrelaw.com (website) CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. Deeley" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 2:31 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > This is ridiculous! How were these people damaged? > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mehgan Sidhu" > To: > Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 3:20 PM > Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > >> To answer the recent questions posted about the Target case, the final >> settlement hearing took place on March 9th. I understand from our >> counsel in California, Larry Paradis of DRA and Josh Konecky, that there >> were no objectors and the Judge was pleased with the resolution of the >> case. The settlement is not fully "final" until the time for any >> appeals has run - which is about 30 days. Given there were no objectors, >> it is highly unlikely that any appeals will be filed. The judge has not >> yet made a ruling on attorneys fees, but that will not hold up >> enforcement of the settlement. >> >> >> >> As for disbursements, assuming there are no appeals, the claims >> administer has 45 days from the final approval date to disburse funds to >> claimants. I do not know the final tally of approved claimants, though I >> think there were several hundred. I will pass that information along >> when I have it. >> >> >> >> We will now be working on enforcing the settlement commitments that >> Target made with respect to the accessibility of the website. >> >> >> Mehgan Sidhu >> Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP >> 120 East Baltimore Street, Suite 1700 >> Baltimore, Maryland 21202 >> 410-962-1030 x1324 >> 410-385-0869 (fax) >> ms at browngold.com >> www.browngold.com >> >> Confidentiality Notice >> >> This e-mail may contain confidential information that may also be legally >> privileged and that is intended only for the use of the addressee(s) >> named above. If you are not the intended recipient or an authorized >> agent of the recipient, please be advised that any dissemination or >> copying of this e-mail, or taking of any action in reliance on the >> information contained herein, is strictly prohibited. If you have >> received this e-mail in error, please notify me immediately by use of the >> reply button, and then delete the e-mail from your system. Thank you! >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release Date: 03/13/09 > 05:59:00 > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/slabarre%40labarrelaw.com > _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release Date: 03/13/09 05:59:00 _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net From stevep.deeley at insightbb.com Sat Mar 14 13:24:24 2009 From: stevep.deeley at insightbb.com (Steve P. Deeley) Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 09:24:24 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target In-Reply-To: References: <549FC55C53E54BA5814FA71C231CE71F@StevePC> <489BACB231A24B1494701FE7E81396B8@StevePC> Message-ID: <78726D7BDC0D4E1EBBAE1E83A3D6FE14@StevePC> That should not result in you receiving damages of almost $4,000.00. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 4:35 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target As an individual I am insulted and damaged each time I am discriminated by a business not accommodating my ability to access their products and services, especially on the Internet when I have made sure that I have accommodated myself with the most up-to-date software to mitigate my needs as a blind person. I should not have to rely on sighted assistance to use a product or do without because the greedy corporations has chosen the most expedient road to sell their products. I am also insulted that you are posting this question. I have in my life time been sold out by too many blind people that thought they knew what I needed and I hope more companies will have to pay damages in these types of cases. Perhaps they will then learn how to meet the needs of all their customers. Fortunately here in California we have some laws with some teeth in them that are enforceable--although these teeth still need a good sharpening. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. Deeley" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 6:22 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target That is a lawyer talking who makes his living in rediculous situations like this one. Again, you show me how an individual was damaged and out $4,000.00. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott C. LaBarre" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 5:38 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target Violation of civil rights has long been recognized as a form of compensible legal damage as well it should be. Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. LaBarre Law Offices P.C. 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 Denver, Colorado 80222 303 504-5979 (voice) 303 757-3640 (fax) slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) www.labarrelaw.com (website) CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. Deeley" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 2:31 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > This is ridiculous! How were these people damaged? > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mehgan Sidhu" > To: > Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 3:20 PM > Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > >> To answer the recent questions posted about the Target case, the final >> settlement hearing took place on March 9th. I understand from our >> counsel in California, Larry Paradis of DRA and Josh Konecky, that there >> were no objectors and the Judge was pleased with the resolution of the >> case. The settlement is not fully "final" until the time for any >> appeals has run - which is about 30 days. Given there were no objectors, >> it is highly unlikely that any appeals will be filed. The judge has not >> yet made a ruling on attorneys fees, but that will not hold up >> enforcement of the settlement. >> >> >> >> As for disbursements, assuming there are no appeals, the claims >> administer has 45 days from the final approval date to disburse funds to >> claimants. I do not know the final tally of approved claimants, though I >> think there were several hundred. I will pass that information along >> when I have it. >> >> >> >> We will now be working on enforcing the settlement commitments that >> Target made with respect to the accessibility of the website. >> >> >> Mehgan Sidhu >> Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP >> 120 East Baltimore Street, Suite 1700 >> Baltimore, Maryland 21202 >> 410-962-1030 x1324 >> 410-385-0869 (fax) >> ms at browngold.com >> www.browngold.com >> >> Confidentiality Notice >> >> This e-mail may contain confidential information that may also be legally >> privileged and that is intended only for the use of the addressee(s) >> named above. If you are not the intended recipient or an authorized >> agent of the recipient, please be advised that any dissemination or >> copying of this e-mail, or taking of any action in reliance on the >> information contained herein, is strictly prohibited. If you have >> received this e-mail in error, please notify me immediately by use of the >> reply button, and then delete the e-mail from your system. Thank you! >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release Date: 03/13/09 > 05:59:00 > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/slabarre%40labarrelaw.com > _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release Date: 03/13/09 05:59:00 _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release Date: 03/13/09 05:59:00 From stevep.deeley at insightbb.com Sat Mar 14 13:25:45 2009 From: stevep.deeley at insightbb.com (Steve P. Deeley) Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 09:25:45 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target In-Reply-To: References: <549FC55C53E54BA5814FA71C231CE71F@StevePC> Message-ID: <03B8D4FE14404DA090F70CC5A0D9949B@StevePC> I want someone to show me how this results in damages of this magnitude. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rod Alcidonis" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 12:24 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > Steve: > > If you are not an attorney or a law student, we may be arguing and > understanding different concepts here. "Damage" is a legal concept, and if > not used in that sense can certainly lead to ridiculous understanding. A > damage award allows a plaintiff to be compensated for the harm caused by > the > defendant. Damages take various forms: physical harm, emotional harm, loss > wages, etc. Here as Scott said, the legislature has decided to make such > civil rights violations compensable as damages. It is a legal recognition > that a harm was caused, and it was caused to the plaintiff. The harm here > was violations of federal and State civil rights. > I hope that helps. > > Rod Alcidonis > Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009. > Roger Williams University School of Law > 10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 > Bristol, RI 02809 > Cell: 718-704-4651 > Home: 401-824-8685 > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Steve P. Deeley" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 9:20 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > >> Well, sign me up. There are dozens of Web sites a year that I can't >> access. This is just ridiculous. This is, exactly, what raises the cost >> of doing business for companies. I'm not condoning Target's continuing >> unwillingness to deal with their inaccessible >> web site, however, there is no way that an individual is damaged to the >> tune of $4,000.00. >> Steve >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Mehgan Sidhu" >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 5:02 PM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target >> >> >>> Steve, >>> >>> In addition to the ADA claim, the lawsuit was brought under California's >>> Unruh Act and Disabled Person's Act, both of which provide for minimum >>> statutory damages ($4,000 and $1,000 per violation, respectively). >>> Under >>> the agreement, members of the California class who are legally blind, >>> had >>> attempted to use Target.com between February 7, 2003 and December 9, >>> 2008, and experienced significant barriers were eligible for damages of >>> up to $3,500 per violation for a maximum of 2 violations. >>> >>> A copy of the settlement is available at the following site: >>> http://www.nfbtargetlawsuit.com/final_settlement.html >>> >>> Mehgan Sidhu >>> Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP >>> 120 East Baltimore Street, Suite 1700 >>> Baltimore, Maryland 21202 >>> 410-962-1030 x1324 >>> 410-385-0869 (fax) >>> ms at browngold.com >>> www.browngold.com >>> >>> Confidentiality Notice >>> >>> This e-mail may contain confidential information that may also be >>> legally >>> privileged and that is intended only for the use of the addressee(s) >>> named above. If you are not the intended recipient or an authorized >>> agent of the recipient, please be advised that any dissemination or >>> copying of this e-mail, or taking of any action in reliance on the >>> information contained herein, is strictly prohibited. If you have >>> received this e-mail in error, please notify me immediately by use of >>> the >>> reply button, and then delete the e-mail from your system. Thank you! >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>> On >>> Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley >>> Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 4:31 PM >>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target >>> >>> This is ridiculous! How were these people damaged? >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Mehgan Sidhu" >>> To: >>> Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 3:20 PM >>> Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target >>> >>> >>>> To answer the recent questions posted about the Target case, the final >>>> settlement hearing took place on March 9th. I understand from our >>>> counsel >>>> in California, Larry Paradis of DRA and Josh Konecky, that there were >>>> no >>>> objectors and the Judge was pleased with the resolution of the case. >>>> The >>>> settlement is not fully "final" until the time for any appeals has >>>> run - >>>> which is about 30 days. Given there were no objectors, it is highly >>>> unlikely that any appeals will be filed. The judge has not yet made a >>>> ruling on attorneys fees, but that will not hold up enforcement of the >>>> settlement. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> As for disbursements, assuming there are no appeals, the claims >>>> administer >>>> has 45 days from the final approval date to disburse funds to >>>> claimants. >>>> I do not know the final tally of approved claimants, though I think >>>> there >>>> were several hundred. I will pass that information along when I have >>>> it. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> We will now be working on enforcing the settlement commitments that >>>> Target >>>> made with respect to the accessibility of the website. >>>> >>>> >>>> Mehgan Sidhu >>>> Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP >>>> 120 East Baltimore Street, Suite 1700 >>>> Baltimore, Maryland 21202 >>>> 410-962-1030 x1324 >>>> 410-385-0869 (fax) >>>> ms at browngold.com >>>> www.browngold.com >>>> >>>> Confidentiality Notice >>>> >>>> This e-mail may contain confidential information that may also be >>>> legally >>>> privileged and that is intended only for the use of the addressee(s) >>>> named >>>> above. If you are not the intended recipient or an authorized agent of >>>> the recipient, please be advised that any dissemination or copying of >>>> this >>>> e-mail, or taking of any action in reliance on the information >>>> contained >>>> herein, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in >>>> error, please notify me immediately by use of the reply button, and >>>> then >>>> delete the e-mail from your system. Thank you! >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com >>> >>> >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> >>> >>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>> Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release Date: >>> 03/13/09 >>> 05:59:00 >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ms%40browngold.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release Date: >> 03/13/09 >> 05:59:00 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release Date: 03/13/09 05:59:00 From stevep.deeley at insightbb.com Sat Mar 14 13:26:44 2009 From: stevep.deeley at insightbb.com (Steve P. Deeley) Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 09:26:44 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target In-Reply-To: <001301c9a442$63a1e180$6401a8c0@server> References: <549FC55C53E54BA5814FA71C231CE71F@StevePC> <001301c9a442$63a1e180$6401a8c0@server> Message-ID: <588EC588BDA14F18B7560ACF4C83829B@StevePC> I'm quite certain there was psychological damage as well, right??? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dennis Clark" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 9:15 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > They were damaged in that they were not able to place orders on Targets > website using screen readers. As a result you would have to make > purchases > on the Target website using sighted assistance, likely paid assistance, or > you would have to go to a Target store. If retailers like Target do not > wish to make their websites available to all people, all they need to do > is > take the website down, and we can all go to the store in person to make > our > purchases. > All the best, > Dennis > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Steve P. Deeley" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 1:31 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > >> This is ridiculous! How were these people damaged? >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Mehgan Sidhu" >> To: >> Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 3:20 PM >> Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target >> >> >>> To answer the recent questions posted about the Target case, the final >>> settlement hearing took place on March 9th. I understand from our >>> counsel in California, Larry Paradis of DRA and Josh Konecky, that there >>> were no objectors and the Judge was pleased with the resolution of the >>> case. The settlement is not fully "final" until the time for any >>> appeals has run - which is about 30 days. Given there were no >>> objectors, >>> it is highly unlikely that any appeals will be filed. The judge has not >>> yet made a ruling on attorneys fees, but that will not hold up >>> enforcement of the settlement. >>> >>> >>> >>> As for disbursements, assuming there are no appeals, the claims >>> administer has 45 days from the final approval date to disburse funds to >>> claimants. I do not know the final tally of approved claimants, though I >>> think there were several hundred. I will pass that information along >>> when I have it. >>> >>> >>> >>> We will now be working on enforcing the settlement commitments that >>> Target made with respect to the accessibility of the website. >>> >>> >>> Mehgan Sidhu >>> Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP >>> 120 East Baltimore Street, Suite 1700 >>> Baltimore, Maryland 21202 >>> 410-962-1030 x1324 >>> 410-385-0869 (fax) >>> ms at browngold.com >>> www.browngold.com >>> >>> Confidentiality Notice >>> >>> This e-mail may contain confidential information that may also be >>> legally >>> privileged and that is intended only for the use of the addressee(s) >>> named above. If you are not the intended recipient or an authorized >>> agent of the recipient, please be advised that any dissemination or >>> copying of this e-mail, or taking of any action in reliance on the >>> information contained herein, is strictly prohibited. If you have >>> received this e-mail in error, please notify me immediately by use of >>> the >>> reply button, and then delete the e-mail from your system. Thank you! >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release Date: >> 03/13/09 >> 05:59:00 >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dennisgclark%40sbcglobal.net > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release Date: 03/13/09 05:59:00 From roddj12 at hotmail.com Sat Mar 14 13:27:42 2009 From: roddj12 at hotmail.com (Rod Alcidonis) Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 09:27:42 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target References: <549FC55C53E54BA5814FA71C231CE71F@StevePC> <489BACB231A24B1494701FE7E81396B8@StevePC> Message-ID: Steve: The effort here was to try to help your understanding and educate your logic, not to justify the existence of the legal system. I am afraid that you are still not willing to accept that "damage" as used in the law is a term of art. Meaning, It has a specific legal definition different from normal use. It is different when you say that "my bicycle was damaged, for example. It is a legal recognition that certain harms should be compensated. In this case, the plaintiffs are being paid not for the fact that they were physically damage in the normal use of the term, but for violations of their civil rights. See Denis' e-mail for what the harm was. In the bicycle example, if someone were to break your bicycle, you can receive "damages" as the cost of repair, or replacement of the bicycle. By the way, you are also entitled to enforce your civil rights if you so choose and receive damages. Not every violations entitle someone to such remedy. When a person cannot get damages under the law, that person has the option of seeking equitable relief in the form of an injunction or restraining order against the defendant. In this case damages was available as a remedy so the plaintiffs are getting money. They are getting paid because their civil rights were violated. I hope this further helps inform your comments. Take care. Rod Alcidonis Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009. Roger Williams University School of Law 10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 Bristol, RI 02809 Cell: 718-704-4651 Home: 401-824-8685 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. Deeley" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 9:22 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target That is a lawyer talking who makes his living in rediculous situations like this one. Again, you show me how an individual was damaged and out $4,000.00. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott C. LaBarre" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 5:38 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target Violation of civil rights has long been recognized as a form of compensible legal damage as well it should be. Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. LaBarre Law Offices P.C. 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 Denver, Colorado 80222 303 504-5979 (voice) 303 757-3640 (fax) slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) www.labarrelaw.com (website) CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. Deeley" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 2:31 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > This is ridiculous! How were these people damaged? > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mehgan Sidhu" > To: > Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 3:20 PM > Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > >> To answer the recent questions posted about the Target case, the final >> settlement hearing took place on March 9th. I understand from our >> counsel in California, Larry Paradis of DRA and Josh Konecky, that there >> were no objectors and the Judge was pleased with the resolution of the >> case. The settlement is not fully "final" until the time for any >> appeals has run - which is about 30 days. Given there were no objectors, >> it is highly unlikely that any appeals will be filed. The judge has not >> yet made a ruling on attorneys fees, but that will not hold up >> enforcement of the settlement. >> >> >> >> As for disbursements, assuming there are no appeals, the claims >> administer has 45 days from the final approval date to disburse funds to >> claimants. I do not know the final tally of approved claimants, though I >> think there were several hundred. I will pass that information along >> when I have it. >> >> >> >> We will now be working on enforcing the settlement commitments that >> Target made with respect to the accessibility of the website. >> >> >> Mehgan Sidhu >> Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP >> 120 East Baltimore Street, Suite 1700 >> Baltimore, Maryland 21202 >> 410-962-1030 x1324 >> 410-385-0869 (fax) >> ms at browngold.com >> www.browngold.com >> >> Confidentiality Notice >> >> This e-mail may contain confidential information that may also be legally >> privileged and that is intended only for the use of the addressee(s) >> named above. If you are not the intended recipient or an authorized >> agent of the recipient, please be advised that any dissemination or >> copying of this e-mail, or taking of any action in reliance on the >> information contained herein, is strictly prohibited. If you have >> received this e-mail in error, please notify me immediately by use of the >> reply button, and then delete the e-mail from your system. Thank you! >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release Date: 03/13/09 > 05:59:00 > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/slabarre%40labarrelaw.com > _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release Date: 03/13/09 05:59:00 _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail.com From lmilholland at hotmail.com Sat Mar 14 14:48:33 2009 From: lmilholland at hotmail.com (Locke Milholland) Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 10:48:33 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target References: <549FC55C53E54BA5814FA71C231CE71F@StevePC><001301c9a442$63a1e180$6401a8c0@server> <588EC588BDA14F18B7560ACF4C83829B@StevePC> Message-ID: Steve, Suppose, instead of a reasoned one, I were to insert an ad homonym response for explaining for a third time what your sarcasm indicates a continued lack of understanding, then you could hypothetically claim defamation. I've seen no calculus for computing damages, yet in defamation cases damages are nevertheless, reduced to monetary awards. The damages are as much against the defendant as for the plaintiff in some cases. If my actual pecuniary damages from having to shop through Amazon's accessible website over Target's inaccessible website were ten cents for a dvd, then the damages are likely not to encourage Target to do anything towards remedying their website. Four thousand dollars per instance may. A remedy at law is easier to enforce than one in equity for specific performance. A defined amount of damages has more bite than calculated out-of-pocket damages, and our envy of not being in California and denied shopping at target can continue from our less proactive jurisdictions. Locke ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. Deeley" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 9:26 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > I'm quite certain there was psychological damage as well, right??? > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Dennis Clark" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 9:15 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > >> They were damaged in that they were not able to place orders on Targets >> website using screen readers. As a result you would have to make >> purchases >> on the Target website using sighted assistance, likely paid assistance, >> or >> you would have to go to a Target store. If retailers like Target do not >> wish to make their websites available to all people, all they need to do >> is >> take the website down, and we can all go to the store in person to make >> our >> purchases. >> All the best, >> Dennis >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Steve P. Deeley" >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 1:31 PM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target >> >> >>> This is ridiculous! How were these people damaged? >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Mehgan Sidhu" >>> To: >>> Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 3:20 PM >>> Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target >>> >>> >>>> To answer the recent questions posted about the Target case, the final >>>> settlement hearing took place on March 9th. I understand from our >>>> counsel in California, Larry Paradis of DRA and Josh Konecky, that >>>> there >>>> were no objectors and the Judge was pleased with the resolution of the >>>> case. The settlement is not fully "final" until the time for any >>>> appeals has run - which is about 30 days. Given there were no >>>> objectors, >>>> it is highly unlikely that any appeals will be filed. The judge has >>>> not >>>> yet made a ruling on attorneys fees, but that will not hold up >>>> enforcement of the settlement. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> As for disbursements, assuming there are no appeals, the claims >>>> administer has 45 days from the final approval date to disburse funds >>>> to >>>> claimants. I do not know the final tally of approved claimants, though >>>> I >>>> think there were several hundred. I will pass that information along >>>> when I have it. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> We will now be working on enforcing the settlement commitments that >>>> Target made with respect to the accessibility of the website. >>>> >>>> >>>> Mehgan Sidhu >>>> Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP >>>> 120 East Baltimore Street, Suite 1700 >>>> Baltimore, Maryland 21202 >>>> 410-962-1030 x1324 >>>> 410-385-0869 (fax) >>>> ms at browngold.com >>>> www.browngold.com >>>> >>>> Confidentiality Notice >>>> >>>> This e-mail may contain confidential information that may also be >>>> legally >>>> privileged and that is intended only for the use of the addressee(s) >>>> named above. If you are not the intended recipient or an authorized >>>> agent of the recipient, please be advised that any dissemination or >>>> copying of this e-mail, or taking of any action in reliance on the >>>> information contained herein, is strictly prohibited. If you have >>>> received this e-mail in error, please notify me immediately by use of >>>> the >>>> reply button, and then delete the e-mail from your system. Thank you! >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com >>> >>> >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> >>> >>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>> Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release Date: >>> 03/13/09 >>> 05:59:00 >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dennisgclark%40sbcglobal.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release Date: 03/13/09 > 05:59:00 > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/lmilholland%40hotmail.com > From jsorozco at gmail.com Sat Mar 14 14:52:15 2009 From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco) Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 10:52:15 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target In-Reply-To: <78726D7BDC0D4E1EBBAE1E83A3D6FE14@StevePC> Message-ID: What troubles me is that my question of accessibility standards has not been answered on the other case against the LSAC. The same question is applicable here. What standard was used to conclude that the web site was not accessible? I do not claim to be a genius at manipulating technology to serve my needs, but I did not have to try hard at all to make Target give me what I needed between 2005 and 2008. So is the problem the web site layout, or is it our own technology training? Rather than chase every entity with features a few people deem inaccessible, would it not be prudent to take our standards, whatever those may be, to the classroom, to the software developers, the relevant associations raising the performance standards of its students and members? This method of engineering change gives us the perception of a watchdog group. If this is what we have become, and given the small margin of the population we represent, I would rather trigger change at the source rather than at the output. Joe Orozco "A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the crowd."--Max Lucado -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 9:24 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target That should not result in you receiving damages of almost $4,000.00. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 4:35 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target As an individual I am insulted and damaged each time I am discriminated by a business not accommodating my ability to access their products and services, especially on the Internet when I have made sure that I have accommodated myself with the most up-to-date software to mitigate my needs as a blind person. I should not have to rely on sighted assistance to use a product or do without because the greedy corporations has chosen the most expedient road to sell their products. I am also insulted that you are posting this question. I have in my life time been sold out by too many blind people that thought they knew what I needed and I hope more companies will have to pay damages in these types of cases. Perhaps they will then learn how to meet the needs of all their customers. Fortunately here in California we have some laws with some teeth in them that are enforceable--although these teeth still need a good sharpening. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. Deeley" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 6:22 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target That is a lawyer talking who makes his living in rediculous situations like this one. Again, you show me how an individual was damaged and out $4,000.00. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott C. LaBarre" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 5:38 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target Violation of civil rights has long been recognized as a form of compensible legal damage as well it should be. Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. LaBarre Law Offices P.C. 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 Denver, Colorado 80222 303 504-5979 (voice) 303 757-3640 (fax) slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) www.labarrelaw.com (website) CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. Deeley" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 2:31 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > This is ridiculous! How were these people damaged? > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mehgan Sidhu" > To: > Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 3:20 PM > Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > >> To answer the recent questions posted about the Target case, the final >> settlement hearing took place on March 9th. I understand from our >> counsel in California, Larry Paradis of DRA and Josh Konecky, that there >> were no objectors and the Judge was pleased with the resolution of the >> case. The settlement is not fully "final" until the time for any >> appeals has run - which is about 30 days. Given there were no objectors, >> it is highly unlikely that any appeals will be filed. The judge has not >> yet made a ruling on attorneys fees, but that will not hold up >> enforcement of the settlement. >> >> >> >> As for disbursements, assuming there are no appeals, the claims >> administer has 45 days from the final approval date to disburse funds to >> claimants. I do not know the final tally of approved claimants, though I >> think there were several hundred. I will pass that information along >> when I have it. >> >> >> >> We will now be working on enforcing the settlement commitments that >> Target made with respect to the accessibility of the website. >> >> >> Mehgan Sidhu >> Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP >> 120 East Baltimore Street, Suite 1700 >> Baltimore, Maryland 21202 >> 410-962-1030 x1324 >> 410-385-0869 (fax) >> ms at browngold.com >> www.browngold.com >> >> Confidentiality Notice >> >> This e-mail may contain confidential information that may also be legally >> privileged and that is intended only for the use of the addressee(s) >> named above. If you are not the intended recipient or an authorized >> agent of the recipient, please be advised that any dissemination or >> copying of this e-mail, or taking of any action in reliance on the >> information contained herein, is strictly prohibited. If you have >> received this e-mail in error, please notify me immediately by use of the >> reply button, and then delete the e-mail from your system. Thank you! >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep .deeley%40insightbb.com > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release Date: 03/13/09 > 05:59:00 > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/slabar re%40labarrelaw.com > _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep .deeley%40insightbb.com ---------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release Date: 03/13/09 05:59:00 _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugm an%40sbcglobal.net _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep .deeley%40insightbb.com ---------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release Date: 03/13/09 05:59:00 _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jsoroz co%40gmail.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3936 (20090313) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3936 (20090313) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From stevep.deeley at insightbb.com Sat Mar 14 16:41:51 2009 From: stevep.deeley at insightbb.com (Steve P. Deeley) Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 12:41:51 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target In-Reply-To: References: <549FC55C53E54BA5814FA71C231CE71F@StevePC> <489BACB231A24B1494701FE7E81396B8@StevePC> Message-ID: <3C355AFB1ACB43EEBDBD9356D3EFBF38@StevePC> I understand that, however, I just do not agree with the entire concept of awarding damages in this sort of case. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rod Alcidonis" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 9:27 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target Steve: The effort here was to try to help your understanding and educate your logic, not to justify the existence of the legal system. I am afraid that you are still not willing to accept that "damage" as used in the law is a term of art. Meaning, It has a specific legal definition different from normal use. It is different when you say that "my bicycle was damaged, for example. It is a legal recognition that certain harms should be compensated. In this case, the plaintiffs are being paid not for the fact that they were physically damage in the normal use of the term, but for violations of their civil rights. See Denis' e-mail for what the harm was. In the bicycle example, if someone were to break your bicycle, you can receive "damages" as the cost of repair, or replacement of the bicycle. By the way, you are also entitled to enforce your civil rights if you so choose and receive damages. Not every violations entitle someone to such remedy. When a person cannot get damages under the law, that person has the option of seeking equitable relief in the form of an injunction or restraining order against the defendant. In this case damages was available as a remedy so the plaintiffs are getting money. They are getting paid because their civil rights were violated. I hope this further helps inform your comments. Take care. Rod Alcidonis Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009. Roger Williams University School of Law 10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 Bristol, RI 02809 Cell: 718-704-4651 Home: 401-824-8685 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. Deeley" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 9:22 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target That is a lawyer talking who makes his living in rediculous situations like this one. Again, you show me how an individual was damaged and out $4,000.00. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott C. LaBarre" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 5:38 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target Violation of civil rights has long been recognized as a form of compensible legal damage as well it should be. Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. LaBarre Law Offices P.C. 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 Denver, Colorado 80222 303 504-5979 (voice) 303 757-3640 (fax) slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) www.labarrelaw.com (website) CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. Deeley" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 2:31 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > This is ridiculous! How were these people damaged? > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mehgan Sidhu" > To: > Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 3:20 PM > Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > >> To answer the recent questions posted about the Target case, the final >> settlement hearing took place on March 9th. I understand from our >> counsel in California, Larry Paradis of DRA and Josh Konecky, that there >> were no objectors and the Judge was pleased with the resolution of the >> case. The settlement is not fully "final" until the time for any >> appeals has run - which is about 30 days. Given there were no objectors, >> it is highly unlikely that any appeals will be filed. The judge has not >> yet made a ruling on attorneys fees, but that will not hold up >> enforcement of the settlement. >> >> >> >> As for disbursements, assuming there are no appeals, the claims >> administer has 45 days from the final approval date to disburse funds to >> claimants. I do not know the final tally of approved claimants, though I >> think there were several hundred. I will pass that information along >> when I have it. >> >> >> >> We will now be working on enforcing the settlement commitments that >> Target made with respect to the accessibility of the website. >> >> >> Mehgan Sidhu >> Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP >> 120 East Baltimore Street, Suite 1700 >> Baltimore, Maryland 21202 >> 410-962-1030 x1324 >> 410-385-0869 (fax) >> ms at browngold.com >> www.browngold.com >> >> Confidentiality Notice >> >> This e-mail may contain confidential information that may also be legally >> privileged and that is intended only for the use of the addressee(s) >> named above. If you are not the intended recipient or an authorized >> agent of the recipient, please be advised that any dissemination or >> copying of this e-mail, or taking of any action in reliance on the >> information contained herein, is strictly prohibited. If you have >> received this e-mail in error, please notify me immediately by use of the >> reply button, and then delete the e-mail from your system. Thank you! >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release Date: 03/13/09 > 05:59:00 > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/slabarre%40labarrelaw.com > _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release Date: 03/13/09 05:59:00 _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/2001 - Release Date: 03/14/09 06:54:00 From stevep.deeley at insightbb.com Sat Mar 14 16:52:54 2009 From: stevep.deeley at insightbb.com (Steve P. Deeley) Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 12:52:54 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Joe, I really like that response. What difficulties did you have with the web site. Wasn't the case in involving Target filed in California? The California laws in the area of civil rights make it much easier to litigate a case like this one in a state like California. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Orozco" To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 10:52 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target What troubles me is that my question of accessibility standards has not been answered on the other case against the LSAC. The same question is applicable here. What standard was used to conclude that the web site was not accessible? I do not claim to be a genius at manipulating technology to serve my needs, but I did not have to try hard at all to make Target give me what I needed between 2005 and 2008. So is the problem the web site layout, or is it our own technology training? Rather than chase every entity with features a few people deem inaccessible, would it not be prudent to take our standards, whatever those may be, to the classroom, to the software developers, the relevant associations raising the performance standards of its students and members? This method of engineering change gives us the perception of a watchdog group. If this is what we have become, and given the small margin of the population we represent, I would rather trigger change at the source rather than at the output. Joe Orozco "A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the crowd."--Max Lucado -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 9:24 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target That should not result in you receiving damages of almost $4,000.00. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 4:35 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target As an individual I am insulted and damaged each time I am discriminated by a business not accommodating my ability to access their products and services, especially on the Internet when I have made sure that I have accommodated myself with the most up-to-date software to mitigate my needs as a blind person. I should not have to rely on sighted assistance to use a product or do without because the greedy corporations has chosen the most expedient road to sell their products. I am also insulted that you are posting this question. I have in my life time been sold out by too many blind people that thought they knew what I needed and I hope more companies will have to pay damages in these types of cases. Perhaps they will then learn how to meet the needs of all their customers. Fortunately here in California we have some laws with some teeth in them that are enforceable--although these teeth still need a good sharpening. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. Deeley" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 6:22 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target That is a lawyer talking who makes his living in rediculous situations like this one. Again, you show me how an individual was damaged and out $4,000.00. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott C. LaBarre" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 5:38 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target Violation of civil rights has long been recognized as a form of compensible legal damage as well it should be. Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. LaBarre Law Offices P.C. 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 Denver, Colorado 80222 303 504-5979 (voice) 303 757-3640 (fax) slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) www.labarrelaw.com (website) CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. Deeley" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 2:31 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > This is ridiculous! How were these people damaged? > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mehgan Sidhu" > To: > Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 3:20 PM > Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > >> To answer the recent questions posted about the Target case, the final >> settlement hearing took place on March 9th. I understand from our >> counsel in California, Larry Paradis of DRA and Josh Konecky, that there >> were no objectors and the Judge was pleased with the resolution of the >> case. The settlement is not fully "final" until the time for any >> appeals has run - which is about 30 days. Given there were no objectors, >> it is highly unlikely that any appeals will be filed. The judge has not >> yet made a ruling on attorneys fees, but that will not hold up >> enforcement of the settlement. >> >> >> >> As for disbursements, assuming there are no appeals, the claims >> administer has 45 days from the final approval date to disburse funds to >> claimants. I do not know the final tally of approved claimants, though I >> think there were several hundred. I will pass that information along >> when I have it. >> >> >> >> We will now be working on enforcing the settlement commitments that >> Target made with respect to the accessibility of the website. >> >> >> Mehgan Sidhu >> Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP >> 120 East Baltimore Street, Suite 1700 >> Baltimore, Maryland 21202 >> 410-962-1030 x1324 >> 410-385-0869 (fax) >> ms at browngold.com >> www.browngold.com >> >> Confidentiality Notice >> >> This e-mail may contain confidential information that may also be legally >> privileged and that is intended only for the use of the addressee(s) >> named above. If you are not the intended recipient or an authorized >> agent of the recipient, please be advised that any dissemination or >> copying of this e-mail, or taking of any action in reliance on the >> information contained herein, is strictly prohibited. If you have >> received this e-mail in error, please notify me immediately by use of the >> reply button, and then delete the e-mail from your system. Thank you! >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep .deeley%40insightbb.com > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release Date: 03/13/09 > 05:59:00 > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/slabar re%40labarrelaw.com > _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep .deeley%40insightbb.com ---------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release Date: 03/13/09 05:59:00 _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugm an%40sbcglobal.net _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep .deeley%40insightbb.com ---------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release Date: 03/13/09 05:59:00 _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jsoroz co%40gmail.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3936 (20090313) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3936 (20090313) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/2001 - Release Date: 03/14/09 06:54:00 From mikefry79 at gmail.com Sat Mar 14 16:55:32 2009 From: mikefry79 at gmail.com (Michael Fry) Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 09:55:32 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Introduction In-Reply-To: <5AA77F8E31F74CECB341D611142A624F@labarre> References: <5AA77F8E31F74CECB341D611142A624F@labarre> Message-ID: <8c58e54a0903140955k6f926483n72e197e592b135cc@mail.gmail.com> Hi Megan, welcome to the group. On Fri, Mar 13, 2009 at 2:51 PM, Scott C. LaBarre wrote: > Welcome Mehgan. You make a great addition to the group! > Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. > > LaBarre Law Offices P.C. > 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 > Denver, Colorado 80222 > 303 504-5979 (voice) > 303 757-3640 (fax) > slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) > www.labarrelaw.com (website) > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and > privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not > read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message > in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or > slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. This > message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic > Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mehgan Sidhu" > To: > Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 12:51 PM > Subject: [blindlaw] Introduction > > > Hello Listserv Members, >> >> I just joined the listserv so that I can share relevant information on >> this forum. I'm an attorney at Brown, Goldstein & Levy and one of several >> attorneys at the firm who represents the National Federation of the Blind on >> access technology and other litigation matters. I've been with the firm for >> about two-and-a-half years and have worked on the Target case, the Apple >> iTunes settlement, and other website, technology and education cases. >> Recently, I've been working with Scott LaBarre, Disability Rights >> Advocates, and others on the listserv in the action against the LSAC's >> inaccessible website and have been working more generally on issues related >> to access to e-books for the NFB. I look forward to sharing information >> that may be useful, particularly related to the access technology issues. >> >> Best, >> Mehgan >> >> Mehgan Sidhu >> Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP >> 120 East Baltimore Street, Suite 1700 >> Baltimore, Maryland 21202 >> 410-962-1030 x1324 >> 410-385-0869 (fax) >> ms at browngold.com >> www.browngold.com >> >> Confidentiality Notice >> >> This e-mail may contain confidential information that may also be legally >> privileged and that is intended only for the use of the addressee(s) named >> above. If you are not the intended recipient or an authorized agent of the >> recipient, please be advised that any dissemination or copying of this >> e-mail, or taking of any action in reliance on the information contained >> herein, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, >> please notify me immediately by use of the reply button, and then delete the >> e-mail from your system. Thank you! >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/slabarre%40labarrelaw.com >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mikefry79%40gmail.com > From stevep.deeley at insightbb.com Sat Mar 14 16:57:30 2009 From: stevep.deeley at insightbb.com (Steve P. Deeley) Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 12:57:30 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target In-Reply-To: References: <549FC55C53E54BA5814FA71C231CE71F@StevePC> <001301c9a442$63a1e180$6401a8c0@server> <588EC588BDA14F18B7560ACF4C83829B@StevePC> Message-ID: <2C3EB2C010F94C3B85C01489EFB4B82B@StevePC> Some Sarcasm, I will admit, why not $4.00 and have the courts enforce the judicial order to remedy the situation. My real question in all of this is to learn how the amount of damages were arrived at in the case? Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Locke Milholland" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 10:48 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > Steve, > Suppose, instead of a reasoned one, I were to insert an ad homonym > response > for explaining for a third time what your sarcasm indicates a continued > lack > of understanding, then you could hypothetically claim defamation. I've > seen > no calculus for computing damages, yet in defamation cases damages are > nevertheless, reduced to monetary awards. The damages are as much against > the defendant as for the plaintiff in some cases. > > If my actual pecuniary damages from having to shop through Amazon's > accessible website over Target's inaccessible website were ten cents for a > dvd, then the damages are likely not to encourage Target to do anything > towards remedying their website. Four thousand dollars per instance may. > A > remedy at law is easier to enforce than one in equity for specific > performance. > > A defined amount of damages has more bite than calculated out-of-pocket > damages, and our envy of not being in California and denied shopping at > target can continue from our less proactive jurisdictions. > > > Locke > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Steve P. Deeley" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 9:26 AM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > >> I'm quite certain there was psychological damage as well, right??? >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Dennis Clark" >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 9:15 PM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target >> >> >>> They were damaged in that they were not able to place orders on Targets >>> website using screen readers. As a result you would have to make >>> purchases >>> on the Target website using sighted assistance, likely paid assistance, >>> or >>> you would have to go to a Target store. If retailers like Target do not >>> wish to make their websites available to all people, all they need to do >>> is >>> take the website down, and we can all go to the store in person to make >>> our >>> purchases. >>> All the best, >>> Dennis >>> >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Steve P. Deeley" >>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>> Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 1:31 PM >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target >>> >>> >>>> This is ridiculous! How were these people damaged? >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Mehgan Sidhu" >>>> To: >>>> Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 3:20 PM >>>> Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target >>>> >>>> >>>>> To answer the recent questions posted about the Target case, the final >>>>> settlement hearing took place on March 9th. I understand from our >>>>> counsel in California, Larry Paradis of DRA and Josh Konecky, that >>>>> there >>>>> were no objectors and the Judge was pleased with the resolution of the >>>>> case. The settlement is not fully "final" until the time for any >>>>> appeals has run - which is about 30 days. Given there were no >>>>> objectors, >>>>> it is highly unlikely that any appeals will be filed. The judge has >>>>> not >>>>> yet made a ruling on attorneys fees, but that will not hold up >>>>> enforcement of the settlement. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> As for disbursements, assuming there are no appeals, the claims >>>>> administer has 45 days from the final approval date to disburse funds >>>>> to >>>>> claimants. I do not know the final tally of approved claimants, though >>>>> I >>>>> think there were several hundred. I will pass that information along >>>>> when I have it. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> We will now be working on enforcing the settlement commitments that >>>>> Target made with respect to the accessibility of the website. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Mehgan Sidhu >>>>> Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP >>>>> 120 East Baltimore Street, Suite 1700 >>>>> Baltimore, Maryland 21202 >>>>> 410-962-1030 x1324 >>>>> 410-385-0869 (fax) >>>>> ms at browngold.com >>>>> www.browngold.com >>>>> >>>>> Confidentiality Notice >>>>> >>>>> This e-mail may contain confidential information that may also be >>>>> legally >>>>> privileged and that is intended only for the use of the addressee(s) >>>>> named above. If you are not the intended recipient or an authorized >>>>> agent of the recipient, please be advised that any dissemination or >>>>> copying of this e-mail, or taking of any action in reliance on the >>>>> information contained herein, is strictly prohibited. If you have >>>>> received this e-mail in error, please notify me immediately by use of >>>>> the >>>>> reply button, and then delete the e-mail from your system. Thank you! >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> blindlaw: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com >>>> >>>> >>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>>> Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release Date: >>>> 03/13/09 >>>> 05:59:00 >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dennisgclark%40sbcglobal.net >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release Date: >> 03/13/09 >> 05:59:00 >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/lmilholland%40hotmail.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/2001 - Release Date: 03/14/09 06:54:00 From mikefry79 at gmail.com Sat Mar 14 17:01:42 2009 From: mikefry79 at gmail.com (Michael Fry) Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 10:01:42 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. lsac complaint In-Reply-To: <01b801c9a463$f3c9b550$7100a8c0@computer> References: <49bb3c67.8905be0a.68cc.5e82SMTPIN_ADDED@mx.google.com> <01b801c9a463$f3c9b550$7100a8c0@computer> Message-ID: <8c58e54a0903141001w4710645v5f47c25aa0300a1f@mail.gmail.com> I did not know that a new policy regarding evalution of multiple LSAT scores had been implemented. I agree with Angie and Craig that its better. On Fri, Mar 13, 2009 at 10:15 PM, Craig Borne wrote: > Angie, > I wonder how many ABA accredited schools will follow the ABA's advice. I > really believe this is a better way to go, though neither the ABA or law > schools in general have solicited my advice. Shame on them. > Craig > > > Craig Borne > Baltimore, Maryland > "A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial > appearance of being right, and raises at first a formidable outcry in > defense of custom." --Thomas Paine, Common Sense > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of Angie Matney > Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 12:55 AM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. lsac complaint > > Now that the ABA advises schools to only consider the highest score, it > would seem to be less likely that a low first score would be considered > irreparable harm. > > Angie > > On Fri, 13 Mar 2009 02:31:57 -0400, Rod Alcidonis wrote: > > >Well, academically speaking, the law suit could have prayed for a > Temporary > > >Restraining Order, or a preliminary Injunction against the LSAC for folks > >like you. Basically enjoined the LSAC from administering the exam until > they > >make the changes. The only difficulty with that I think justifies the > reason > >they probably did not pray for such a relief is that such a measure would > >cause too much harm to the public, I.E, the thousands of law students and > >schools who rely on the exam to make admissions decisions. Such an order > >while it would have forced the LSAC to make the changes much faster, it > >would have unreasonably halted the system for some times. If it were a > class > >action with thousands of members, it probably would have been easier to > >argue, I think. Whether not passing an exam for the first time is > considered > >irreparable harm is another question -- you can still make the argument > >under these circumstances. > > >Rod Alcidonis > >Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009. > >Roger Williams University School of Law > >10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 > >Bristol, RI 02809 > >Cell: 718-704-4651 > >Home: 401-824-8685 > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Bill Spiry" > >To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" > >Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2009 9:52 PM > >Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. lsac complaint > > > >I understand. What might be done to getLSAC to authorize use of this > >material as an accessible alternative to what they have to offer? I know > NFB > >is sueing them, but in the mean time that leaves folks like me who don't > >have the Adobe skills you have, and facing the LSAT soon without > accessible > >matter. Any ideas or suggestions? > > >Thanks. > >-----Original Message----- > >From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > >Behalf Of James Pepper > >Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 10:43 AM > >To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > >Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. lsac complaint > > >Well Bill the content is copyrighted by LSAC so I am not sure I can send > >this to you. Perhaps some on this list can give that advice. I laid it out > >properly. > > >James > > >On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 9:05 AM, Bill Spiry wrote: > > >> I would appreciate receiving this as well. Thanks. > >> bspiry at comcast.net > >> > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] > On > >> Behalf Of James Pepper > >> Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 1:46 AM > >> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. lsac complaint > >> > >> Scott: I laid out the first section of the LSAT to be accessible and I > >> can > >> send you the files if you would like to see it. Also I made the form > that > >> they use accessible so the blind can fill out the test without > assistance. > >> This works with JAWS and Window Eyes and a combination of Adobe's Read > out > >> Loud and Microsoft Narrator. My process works and if you need > references > >> at > >> NFB, AFB and the AAPD I can send them to you. > >> > >> It took a while to figure out how they made thier pdfs and I know where > >> they > >> are making their mistakes. I can correct this problem. These PDFs are > >made > >> to work natively with JAWS and Adobe Reader and the other screen readers > >> without making any adjustments. They work with the default settings in > >> Adobe Reader. > >> > >> Also the forms can be digitally signed and saved and all that fancy > stuff > >> that you expect with Adobe Acrobat Professional can be done with > >> Adobe Reader, versions 8 or 9 which is the free download from Adobe.com. > >> So > >> we can make the LSAT accessible to anyone with a PC running Windows XP > Or > >> VIsta without any change of settings. This means the PC can be there > for > >> the sighted and the blind, with equal access for all. > >> > >> Also since I labeled everything, it will be a lot quicker for you to > fill > >> out this test! > >> > >> Sincerely, > >> > >> James G. Pepper > >> > >> > >> > >> On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 4:32 PM, Scott C. LaBarre > >> wrote: > >> > >> > Below I am sharing the complaint that we filed today in California > >Court. > >> > ************** > >> > LaurEnce W. paradis (California Bar No. 122336) > >> > > >> > Anna levine (California Bar No. 227881) > >> > > >> > Disability Rights Advocates > >> > > >> > 2001 Center Street, Third Floor > >> > > >> > Berkeley, California 94704 > >> > > >> > Telephone: (510) 665-8644 > >> > > >> > Facsimile: (510) 665-8511 > >> > > >> > TTY: (510) 665-8716 > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > SCOTT LABARRE (to seek pro hac vice admission) > >> > > >> > LABARRE LAW OFFICES, P.C. > >> > > >> > 1660 S. Albion Street, Ste 918 > >> > > >> > Denver, Colo 80222 > >> > > >> > Telephone: (303) 504-5979 > >> > > >> > Fax: (303) 757-3640 > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > DANIEL F. GOLDSTEIN (to seek pro hac vice admission) > >> > > >> > MEHGAN Sidhu (to seek pro hac vice admission) > >> > > >> > Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP > >> > > >> > 120 E. Baltimore St., Suite 1700 > >> > > >> > Baltimore, MD 21202 > >> > > >> > Telephone: (410) 962-1030 > >> > > >> > Fax: (410) 385-0869 > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > SUPERIOR COURT OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA > >> > COUNTY OF ALAMEDA > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > National Federation of the Blind, the National Federation of the > >> Blind > >> > of CALIFORNIA, and DEEPA GORAYA, > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > Plaintiffs, > >> > > >> > v. > >> > > >> > LAW SCHOOL ADMISSION COUNCIL, INC., > >> > > >> > Defendant. > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > Case No.: > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > COMPLAINT FOR INJUNCTIVE AND DECLARATORY RELIEF FOR VIOLATIONS OF > >> THE > >> > CALIFORNIA DISABLED PERSONS ACT AND UNRUH CIVIL RIGHTS ACT > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > INTRODUCTION > >> > > >> > Plaintiffs complain of Defendant and allege herein as follows: > >> > > >> > 1. This action, brought by the National Federation of the > Blind, > >> > the National Federation of the Blind of California, and Deepa Goraya, > >> seeks > >> > to put an end to civil rights violations committed by defendant Law > >> School > >> > Admissions Council (hereafter "LSAC") against blind persons seeking to > >> take > >> > the LSAT exam and apply to law schools. Plaintiff Deepa Goraya, a > blind > >> law > >> > school applicant in California, has been and is being denied equal > >access > >> to > >> > the accommodations, advantages, and facilities LSAC provides its > >> > non-disabled customers through http://www.lsac.org (hereafter > "lsac.org" > >> > and "the website"). Plaintiffs National Federation of the Blind and > the > >> > National Federation of the Blind of California have members who are > >> > similarly denied full and equal access to such accommodations, > >advantages > >> > and facilities. Lsac.org is currently the only place online where > >> > prospective law students can register for the Law School Admissions > Test > >> > ("LSAT"), apply to law schools, and obtain official LSAT test > >preparation > >> > materials and information. Lsac.org contains multiple access barriers > >> that > >> > make it difficult if not impossible for blind law school applicants > and > >> LSAT > >> > test takers to use the website and to obtain practice materials > without > >> > sighted assistance. LSAC thus excludes the blind, including Ms. > Goraya, > >> > from full and equal access to the accommodations, advantages, > >facilities, > >> > and privileges of lsac.org. > >> > > >> > JURISDICTION > >> > > >> > 2. This is a civil action under California's Disabled Persons > >Act > >> > (Cal. Civ. Code '' 54, et seq.) and the Unruh Civil Rights Act (Cal. > >Civ. > >> > Code '' 51, et seq.) and for declaratory relief. This Court has > >> > jurisdiction over the claims alleged herein pursuant to California > Civil > >> > Code '' 54, et seq. and California Civil Code '' 51, et seq. and > >> California > >> > Code of Civil Procedure section 1060. > >> > > >> > 3. This Court has jurisdiction over LSAC because LSAC is a > >> > corporation authorized to do business in California and LSAC conducts > >> > substantial business in California. LSAC owns, maintains and operates > >its > >> > website, lsac.org, throughout California and in Alameda County. > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > VENUE > >> > > >> > 4. Venue is proper in Alameda County because liability arises > in > >> > part in Alameda County, where the National Federation of the Blind of > >> > California has its headquarters. LSAC has been and is committing the > >> acts > >> > alleged herein in Alameda County, has been and is violating the rights > >of > >> > patrons in Alameda County, and has been and is causing injury to > patrons > >> in > >> > Alameda County. > >> > > >> > 5. Plaintiff Goraya is a California citizen and has > experienced > >> > injury in California as a result of LSAC's inaccessible website and > >> practice > >> > materials. > >> > > >> > PARTIES > >> > > >> > 6. Plaintiff the National Federation of the Blind (hereafter > >> "NFB") > >> > is a national advocacy organization. The NFB, the oldest and largest > >> > national organization of blind persons, is a non-profit corporation > duly > >> > organized under the laws of the District of Columbia with its > principal > >> > place of business in Baltimore, Maryland. It has affiliates in all 50 > >> > states (including California) as well as Washington, D.C. and Puerto > >> Rico. > >> > The vast majority of the approximately 50,000 members are blind > >persons. > >> > The NFB is widely recognized by the public, Congress, executive > >agencies > >> of > >> > government and the courts as a collective and representative voice on > >> behalf > >> > of blind Americans and their families. The purpose of the NFB is to > >> promote > >> > the general welfare of the blind by (1) assisting the blind in their > >> efforts > >> > to integrate themselves into society on terms of equality and (2) > >> removing > >> > barriers and changing social attitudes, stereotypes and mistaken > beliefs > >> > that sighted and blind persons hold concerning the limitations created > >by > >> > blindness resulting in the denial of opportunity to blind persons in > >> > virtually every sphere of life. The NFB and many of its members have > >> long > >> > been actively involved in promoting adaptive technology for the blind, > >so > >> > that blind persons can live and work independently in today's > >> > technology-dependent world. NFB members reside throughout the United > >> > States, including the state of California, and many of its members > would > >> use > >> > the services of lsac.org if this website is made independently usable > by > >> > the blind. > >> > > >> > 7. Plaintiff the National Federation of the Blind of > California > >> > (hereafter "NFB of California") is a state affiliate of the National > >> > Federation of the Blind. NFB of California is a California > corporation > >> and > >> > carries out NFB's objectives at the state level. It has local > chapters > >> > throughout California, including Alameda County, and has its > >headquarters > >> in > >> > Fremont, California, in Alameda County. > >> > > >> > 8. Plaintiff Goraya is a member of the NFB and the NFB of > >> > California. She is blind and has been denied full and equal access to > >> the > >> > accommodations, advantages, facilities and privileges of lsac.org. > >> > > >> > 9. Defendant LSAC, is a non-profit corporation > >> > established to coordinate, facilitate, and enhance the law school > >> admissions > >> > process. LSAC owns, operates and/or maintains the website lsac.com, a > >> > public accommodation. Plaintiffs seek access to the services provided > >by > >> > LSAC in California through lsac.org. > >> > > >> > FACTS > >> > > >> > 10. Lsac.org is owned, controlled and/or operated by LSAC. > >> Lsac.org > >> > is a public accommodation that offers its visitors comprehensive > >services > >> > for applying to law school. The website functions as the official > >> > destination for guiding prospective law school applicants through the > >> > fundamental steps of applying to law school. Among its services, > >> lsac.orgoffers information about the LSAT and law school application > >> process, and > >> > extensive LSAT preparation materials and resources. Lsac.org also > >serves > >> as > >> > the exclusive online means for registering for the LSAT and applying > to > >> > ABA-accredited law schools. > >> > > >> > 11. According to the website, lsac.org's online services enable > >> > prospective law students to do the following, among other things: > >> > > >> > a.. Register for the LSAT > >> > b.. Register for the LSDAS (Law School Data Assembly Service) > >> > c.. Purchase publications and test preparation materials > >> > d.. Have access to electronic applications for all ABA-approved law > >> > schools > >> > e.. Apply online to law schools > >> > f.. Register for law school forums > >> > g.. Have 24-hour file access > >> > 12. In addition to facilitating the LSAT and law school application > >> > processes, a significant portion of the lsac.org website is devoted > to > >> > preparing students to take the LSAT. Among the services offered in > that > >> > regard are online information guides that explain how to prepare for > the > >> > LSAT and free, downloadable sample practice tests and test questions. > >> > Lsac.org also offers for a fee an online LSAT practice test tool and > >the > >> > opportunity to purchase more than 40 official LSAT practice tests. > >> > > >> > 13. While sighted visitors to lsac.org can easily obtain the > benefits > >> and > >> > advantages offered by the website, blind individuals, including Ms. > >> Goraya, > >> > have been and are being denied access to lsac.org due to LSAC's > failure > >> > and refusal to remove access barriers to lsac.org. Specifically, > blind > >> > visitors to the website, including Ms. Goraya, cannot independently > >apply > >> to > >> > law school, register for the LSAT, or obtain in an accessible format > the > >> > LSAT preparation materials and practice tests available through > lsac.org > >> . > >> > > >> > 14. The blind access websites by using keyboards in conjunction > >> with > >> > screen-reading software. This software vocalizes or conveys to a > >> refreshable > >> > Braille display information that appears visually on a computer > screen. > >> > Unless websites are designed to allow for use in this manner, blind > >> persons > >> > are unable to fully access the internet websites and the information, > >> > products and services contained therein. > >> > > >> > 15. There are well-established guidelines for making websites > >> > accessible to the blind. These guidelines have been in place for at > >> least > >> > several years and have been followed successfully by other public > >> > accommodations in making their online services accessible. The Web > >> > Accessibility Initiative (WAI), a project of the World Wide Web > >> Consortium, > >> > which is the leading standards organization for the Web, has developed > >> > guidelines for making information that is reached via the internet > >> > accessible. The federal government has also promulgated accessibility > >> > standards under Section 508 of the Rehabilitation Act. These > guidelines > >> > have long been readily available via the internet so that any public > >> > accommodation could easily secure the necessary information. > >> > > >> > 16. Lsac.org contains a variety of access barriers that prevent > >> free > >> > and full use by blind persons using keyboards and screen reading > >> software. > >> > These barriers include but are not limited to: lack of or improperly > >> > labeled form controls; faulty keyboard navigation; and use of tables > and > >> > charts that are not formatted for accessibility. Form controls allow > >> users > >> > to input data on online forms and applications. These controls must > be > >> > coded and labeled to allow screen-access software to detect and > vocalize > >> the > >> > requested information. Keyboard navigation refers to the ability to > >> > successfully navigate a website using keyboard commands, as opposed to > >> > requiring a mouse as the exclusive means for navigation of the site. > >> > Further, charts and tables must be formatted to work with > screen-access > >> > software. Much of the lsac.org website, and in particular the online > >> law > >> > school application and LSAT registration sections of the website, lack > >> these > >> > fundamental accessibility components. As a result, blind visitors to > >the > >> > website cannot independently use those and other critical features. > >> > > >> > 17. Lsac.org's test preparation materials that are available on > >the > >> > website in Adobe Portable Document (PDF) format, are not properly > >> "tagged." > >> > This means that the headings, paragraphs, tables, image descriptions > >and > >> > form controls are not easily discernable to screen-reading software. > As > >> a > >> > result, these materials are cumbersome, if not impossible, for a blind > >> > visitor to navigate. > >> > > >> > 18. Finally, lsac.org fails to offer LSAT practice tests, > >> available > >> > as part of its test preparation services, in formats accessible to the > >> > blind. While the sighted can easily use the website to obtain more > than > >> 40 > >> > formerly administered LSAT practice tests, the website fails to offer > >the > >> > opportunity to purchase these practice materials in formats accessible > >to > >> > the blind, such as Braille or an accessible electronic format. > >> > > >> > 19. As a result of lsac.org's accessibility barriers, blind law > >> > school applicants, including Ms. Goraya, must go over extraordinary > >> hurdles > >> > to register and prepare for the LSAT and to apply to law school > compared > >> to > >> > their sighted counterparts. After unsuccessfully attempting to use > >> > lsac.org independently to register for the LSAT and fill out her law > >> > school applications, for example, Plaintiff Goraya was forced to > select > >> and > >> > rely upon a reader for over 50 hours simply to read aloud the content > of > >> the > >> > website and complete her law school applications. Moreover, none of > the > >> > LSAT practice materials, which include previously administered > versions > >> of > >> > the test, were available to her in accessible electronic formats. > >> Lsac.org > >> > thus contains numerous access barriers which deny full and equal > access > >> to > >> > Plaintiff, who would otherwise use the accommodations, advantages, and > >> > facilities of lsac.org. > >> > > >> > 20. On December 10, 2008, Plaintiff National Federation of the > >> Blind > >> > notified LSAC of the unlawful accessibility barriers on its website. > >> LSAC > >> > responded by setting up and then canceling a meeting with the NFB. On > >> > January 22, 2009, the NFB notified LSAC that it intended to pursue > legal > >> > action against LSAC for the unlawful barriers on its website. > >> > > >> > FIRST CAUSE OF ACTION > >> > > >> > (Violation of Cal. Civ. Code '' 54, et seq. - the Disabled Persons > Act) > >> > > >> > 21. The allegations contained in the previous paragraphs are > >> > incorporated by reference. > >> > > >> > 22. The Disabled Persons Act ("DPA") requires that individuals > >with > >> > disabilities have "full and equal access, as other members of the > >general > >> > public, to accommodations, advantages, facilities, . . . and other > >places > >> to > >> > which the general public is invited, subject only to the conditions > and > >> > limitations established by law, or state or federal regulation, and > >> > applicable alike to all persons." Cal. Civ. Code 54.1(a)(1). > >> > > >> > 23. Lsac.org, which is owned, operated and/or maintained by > LSAC, > >> is > >> > an > >> > > >> > accommodation, advantage, facility and/or place to which the general > >> public > >> > is invited, as those terms are used in Cal. Civ. Code ' 54.1(a)(1). > >> > > >> > 24. Defendant's conduct alleged herein violates the DPA, > including > >> > Cal. Civ. Code ' 54.1(a)(1), by denying the Plaintiffs full and equal > >> access > >> > to the accommodations, advantages and facilities of lsac.org. > >> > > >> > 25. As a result of Defendant's conduct, the NFB, the NFB of > >> > California, and Ms. Goraya are entitled to injunctive relief requiring > >> > Defendant to make lsac.org accessible to blind individuals, and to > make > >> > the LSAT test practice materials offered to lsac.org patrons > available > >> to > >> > blind people in an accessible format. > >> > > >> > SECOND CAUSE OF ACTION > >> > > >> > (Violation of Cal.Civ. Code '' 51, et seq. - The Unruh Act) > >> > > >> > 26. The allegations contained in the previous paragraphs are > >> > incorporated by reference. > >> > > >> > 27. California's Unruh Act requires that individuals with > >> > disabilities have "full and equal accommodations, advantages, > >facilities, > >> > privileges or services in all business establishments of every kind > >> > whatsoever." Cal. Civ. Code ' 51(b). > >> > > >> > 28. LSAC and Lsac.org are business establishments as that term > is > >> > used in Cal. Civ. Code ' 51(b) and lsac.org is an accommodation, > >> > advantage, facility, privilege and service of LSAC. > >> > > >> > 29. Defendant's conduct alleged herein violates the Unruh Act, > >> > including Cal. Civ. Code ' 51(b), by denying Plaintiffs the full and > >> equal > >> > accommodations, advantages, facilities, privileges or services of LSAC > >> and > >> > lsac.org. > >> > > >> > 30. Defendant violated the Unruh Act intentionally and/or with > >> > deliberate indifference to the likelihood that it was violating the > >> rights > >> > of blind people and/or Defendant's violations were so intuitive or > >> obvious > >> > that noncompliance could not be other than intentional. > >> > > >> > 31. As a result of Defendant's conduct, the NFB, the NFB of > >> > California, and Ms. Goraya are entitled to injunctive relief requiring > >> > Defendant to make lsac.org accessible to blind individuals, and to > make > >> > the LSAT test practice materials offered to lsac.org patrons > available > >> to > >> > blind people in an accessible format. > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > THIRD CAUSE OF ACTION > >> > > >> > (Declaratory Relief, Cal. Civ. Proc. ' 1060 ) > >> > > >> > 32. The allegations contained in the previous paragraphs are > >> > incorporated by reference. > >> > > >> > 33. On information and belief, Defendants contend that they may > >> > lawfully deny Plaintiffs access to their website and its contents. > >> > Plaintiffs contend that lsac.org, which LSAC owns, operates, and/or > >> > controls, must provide blind patrons access to its website and website > >> > contents under California Civil Code '' 54, et seq. and California > Civil > >> > Code '' 51, et seq., which prohibit discrimination against the blind. > >> > > >> > 34. A judicial declaration is necessary and appropriate at this > >> time > >> > in order that each of the parties may know their respective rights and > >> > duties and act accordingly. > >> > > >> > WHEREFORE, Plaintiffs request relief as set forth below. > >> > > >> > RELIEF REQUESTED > >> > > >> > WHEREFORE, Plaintiffs pray for judgment as follows: > >> > > >> > 1. An order enjoining LSAC from violating > California > >> > Civil Code '' 51, et seq. and '' 54, et seq.; > >> > > >> > 2. A declaration that LSAC is owning, maintaining > >> and/or > >> > operating lsac.org in a manner which discriminates against the blind > and > >> > which fails to provide access for persons with disabilities as > required > >> by > >> > law; > >> > > >> > 3. Plaintiffs' reasonable attorneys' fees and costs > >as > >> > authorized by California California Civil Code '' 54, et seq., > >California > >> > Civil Code '' 51, et seq., and pursuant to California Code of Civil > >> > Procedure ' 1021.5. > >> > > >> > 4. Such other and further relief as the Court deems > >> just > >> > and proper. > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > DATED: > >> > DISABILITY RIGHTS ADVOCATES > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> By: > >> > ____________________________ > >> > > >> > > >> > Laurence W. Paradis > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. > >> > > >> > LaBarre Law Offices P.C. > >> > 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 > >> > Denver, Colorado 80222 > >> > 303 504-5979 (voice) > >> > 303 757-3640 (fax) > >> > slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) > >> > www.labarrelaw.com (website) > >> > > >> > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and > >> > privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you > may > >> not > >> > read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this > >> message > >> > in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or > >> > slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. > >> This > >> > message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic > >> > Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. '' 2510-2521. > >> > _______________________________________________ > >> > blindlaw mailing list > >> > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> > blindlaw: > >> > > >> > > >> > >> > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b75205%40gmail.co > m > >> > > >> > > >> _______________________________________________ > >> blindlaw mailing list > >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> blindlaw: > >> > >> > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/bspiry%40comcast > . > n > >> et > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> blindlaw mailing list > >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> blindlaw: > >> > >> > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b75205%40gmail.co > m > >> > >_______________________________________________ > >blindlaw mailing list > >blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >blindlaw: > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/bspiry%40comcast > . > n > >et > > >_______________________________________________ > >blindlaw mailing list > >blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >blindlaw: > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail > .com > > > >_______________________________________________ > >blindlaw mailing list > >blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie%40mpmail.ne > t > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mikefry79%40gmail.com > From roddj12 at hotmail.com Sat Mar 14 18:23:47 2009 From: roddj12 at hotmail.com (Rod Alcidonis) Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 14:23:47 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target References: <549FC55C53E54BA5814FA71C231CE71F@StevePC><489BACB231A24B1494701FE7E81396B8@StevePC> <3C355AFB1ACB43EEBDBD9356D3EFBF38@StevePC> Message-ID: If damages are not awarded as a remedy at law, the next option would be to grant some equitable relief like an injunction. No court will ask Target to shut down its website until it make it accessible to the blind. This would be considered economic waste and against the public interest if millions of people are forced to stop shopping on line. In the law's eyes, what the plaintiffs really want is for their civil rights not to be violated. If one accept to go ahead and violate them, the least that the law can afford to those plaintiffs is money. The court knows that money is not primarily what the plaintiffs are seeking, but there must be a way for the defendant to answer to society for its wrong doing. Here, it was by making the defendant compensate the plaintiffs for the harm that it caused, I.E, by making the defendant pay for violating the plaintiffs' civil rights. Keep saying the following outloud you will get it: "the damages was for the violation of the plaintiffs' civil rights, not for any physical pain or frustration in not using the Target website." For further edification of your understanding: Once the court can calculate a dollar amount (hence the amount of the damages award), equitable relief is not necessary and such prayers will not be entertained in a court of equity. Here, the court was able to come up with a dollar amount for the violation of the plaintiffs' civil rights. Steve, unless you accept to place your emotions aside and exercise a little willingness to learn, even for one day, your reactions will continue to come across as being very uninformed. I don't think you want that. That's why some of us are trying to help you here while most have resolved to ignoring your comments. If you continue to persist along the same line in light of the effort that's been made to help you out, I will have to conclude in a very respectable way that you are just an ignorant man. I am sorry. Take care. Rod Alcidonis Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009. Roger Williams University School of Law 10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 Bristol, RI 02809 Cell: 718-704-4651 Home: 401-824-8685 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. Deeley" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 12:41 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target I understand that, however, I just do not agree with the entire concept of awarding damages in this sort of case. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rod Alcidonis" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 9:27 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target Steve: The effort here was to try to help your understanding and educate your logic, not to justify the existence of the legal system. I am afraid that you are still not willing to accept that "damage" as used in the law is a term of art. Meaning, It has a specific legal definition different from normal use. It is different when you say that "my bicycle was damaged, for example. It is a legal recognition that certain harms should be compensated. In this case, the plaintiffs are being paid not for the fact that they were physically damage in the normal use of the term, but for violations of their civil rights. See Denis' e-mail for what the harm was. In the bicycle example, if someone were to break your bicycle, you can receive "damages" as the cost of repair, or replacement of the bicycle. By the way, you are also entitled to enforce your civil rights if you so choose and receive damages. Not every violations entitle someone to such remedy. When a person cannot get damages under the law, that person has the option of seeking equitable relief in the form of an injunction or restraining order against the defendant. In this case damages was available as a remedy so the plaintiffs are getting money. They are getting paid because their civil rights were violated. I hope this further helps inform your comments. Take care. Rod Alcidonis Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009. Roger Williams University School of Law 10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 Bristol, RI 02809 Cell: 718-704-4651 Home: 401-824-8685 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. Deeley" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 9:22 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target That is a lawyer talking who makes his living in rediculous situations like this one. Again, you show me how an individual was damaged and out $4,000.00. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott C. LaBarre" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 5:38 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target Violation of civil rights has long been recognized as a form of compensible legal damage as well it should be. Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. LaBarre Law Offices P.C. 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 Denver, Colorado 80222 303 504-5979 (voice) 303 757-3640 (fax) slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) www.labarrelaw.com (website) CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. Deeley" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 2:31 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > This is ridiculous! How were these people damaged? > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mehgan Sidhu" > To: > Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 3:20 PM > Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > >> To answer the recent questions posted about the Target case, the final >> settlement hearing took place on March 9th. I understand from our >> counsel in California, Larry Paradis of DRA and Josh Konecky, that there >> were no objectors and the Judge was pleased with the resolution of the >> case. The settlement is not fully "final" until the time for any >> appeals has run - which is about 30 days. Given there were no objectors, >> it is highly unlikely that any appeals will be filed. The judge has not >> yet made a ruling on attorneys fees, but that will not hold up >> enforcement of the settlement. >> >> >> >> As for disbursements, assuming there are no appeals, the claims >> administer has 45 days from the final approval date to disburse funds to >> claimants. I do not know the final tally of approved claimants, though I >> think there were several hundred. I will pass that information along >> when I have it. >> >> >> >> We will now be working on enforcing the settlement commitments that >> Target made with respect to the accessibility of the website. >> >> >> Mehgan Sidhu >> Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP >> 120 East Baltimore Street, Suite 1700 >> Baltimore, Maryland 21202 >> 410-962-1030 x1324 >> 410-385-0869 (fax) >> ms at browngold.com >> www.browngold.com >> >> Confidentiality Notice >> >> This e-mail may contain confidential information that may also be legally >> privileged and that is intended only for the use of the addressee(s) >> named above. If you are not the intended recipient or an authorized >> agent of the recipient, please be advised that any dissemination or >> copying of this e-mail, or taking of any action in reliance on the >> information contained herein, is strictly prohibited. If you have >> received this e-mail in error, please notify me immediately by use of the >> reply button, and then delete the e-mail from your system. Thank you! >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release Date: 03/13/09 > 05:59:00 > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/slabarre%40labarrelaw.com > _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release Date: 03/13/09 05:59:00 _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/2001 - Release Date: 03/14/09 06:54:00 _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail.com From roddj12 at hotmail.com Sat Mar 14 18:24:23 2009 From: roddj12 at hotmail.com (Rod Alcidonis) Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 14:24:23 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. lsac complaint References: <49bb3c67.8905be0a.68cc.5e82SMTPIN_ADDED@mx.google.com><01b801c9a463$f3c9b550$7100a8c0@computer> <8c58e54a0903141001w4710645v5f47c25aa0300a1f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: But it will not be followed by schools, Mike. Rod Alcidonis Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009. Roger Williams University School of Law 10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 Bristol, RI 02809 Cell: 718-704-4651 Home: 401-824-8685 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Fry" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 1:01 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. lsac complaint >I did not know that a new policy regarding evalution of multiple LSAT >scores > had been implemented. I agree with Angie and Craig that its better. > > On Fri, Mar 13, 2009 at 10:15 PM, Craig Borne wrote: > >> Angie, >> I wonder how many ABA accredited schools will follow the ABA's advice. I >> really believe this is a better way to go, though neither the ABA or law >> schools in general have solicited my advice. Shame on them. >> Craig >> >> >> Craig Borne >> Baltimore, Maryland >> "A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial >> appearance of being right, and raises at first a formidable outcry in >> defense of custom." --Thomas Paine, Common Sense >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf Of Angie Matney >> Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 12:55 AM >> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. lsac complaint >> >> Now that the ABA advises schools to only consider the highest score, it >> would seem to be less likely that a low first score would be considered >> irreparable harm. >> >> Angie >> >> On Fri, 13 Mar 2009 02:31:57 -0400, Rod Alcidonis wrote: >> >> >Well, academically speaking, the law suit could have prayed for a >> Temporary >> >> >Restraining Order, or a preliminary Injunction against the LSAC for >> >folks >> >like you. Basically enjoined the LSAC from administering the exam until >> they >> >make the changes. The only difficulty with that I think justifies the >> reason >> >they probably did not pray for such a relief is that such a measure >> >would >> >cause too much harm to the public, I.E, the thousands of law students >> >and >> >schools who rely on the exam to make admissions decisions. Such an order >> >while it would have forced the LSAC to make the changes much faster, it >> >would have unreasonably halted the system for some times. If it were a >> class >> >action with thousands of members, it probably would have been easier to >> >argue, I think. Whether not passing an exam for the first time is >> considered >> >irreparable harm is another question -- you can still make the argument >> >under these circumstances. >> >> >Rod Alcidonis >> >Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009. >> >Roger Williams University School of Law >> >10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 >> >Bristol, RI 02809 >> >Cell: 718-704-4651 >> >Home: 401-824-8685 >> >> >----- Original Message ----- >> >From: "Bill Spiry" >> >To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >> >Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2009 9:52 PM >> >Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. lsac complaint >> >> >> >I understand. What might be done to getLSAC to authorize use of this >> >material as an accessible alternative to what they have to offer? I know >> NFB >> >is sueing them, but in the mean time that leaves folks like me who don't >> >have the Adobe skills you have, and facing the LSAT soon without >> accessible >> >matter. Any ideas or suggestions? >> >> >Thanks. >> >-----Original Message----- >> >From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >> >On >> >Behalf Of James Pepper >> >Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 10:43 AM >> >To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >> >Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. lsac complaint >> >> >Well Bill the content is copyrighted by LSAC so I am not sure I can send >> >this to you. Perhaps some on this list can give that advice. I laid it >> >out >> >properly. >> >> >James >> >> >On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 9:05 AM, Bill Spiry wrote: >> >> >> I would appreciate receiving this as well. Thanks. >> >> bspiry at comcast.net >> >> >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >> On >> >> Behalf Of James Pepper >> >> Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 1:46 AM >> >> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >> >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. lsac complaint >> >> >> >> Scott: I laid out the first section of the LSAT to be accessible and >> >> I >> >> can >> >> send you the files if you would like to see it. Also I made the form >> that >> >> they use accessible so the blind can fill out the test without >> assistance. >> >> This works with JAWS and Window Eyes and a combination of Adobe's Read >> out >> >> Loud and Microsoft Narrator. My process works and if you need >> references >> >> at >> >> NFB, AFB and the AAPD I can send them to you. >> >> >> >> It took a while to figure out how they made thier pdfs and I know >> >> where >> >> they >> >> are making their mistakes. I can correct this problem. These PDFs are >> >made >> >> to work natively with JAWS and Adobe Reader and the other screen >> >> readers >> >> without making any adjustments. They work with the default settings >> >> in >> >> Adobe Reader. >> >> >> >> Also the forms can be digitally signed and saved and all that fancy >> stuff >> >> that you expect with Adobe Acrobat Professional can be done with >> >> Adobe Reader, versions 8 or 9 which is the free download from >> >> Adobe.com. >> >> So >> >> we can make the LSAT accessible to anyone with a PC running Windows XP >> Or >> >> VIsta without any change of settings. This means the PC can be there >> for >> >> the sighted and the blind, with equal access for all. >> >> >> >> Also since I labeled everything, it will be a lot quicker for you to >> fill >> >> out this test! >> >> >> >> Sincerely, >> >> >> >> James G. Pepper >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 4:32 PM, Scott C. LaBarre >> >> wrote: >> >> >> >> > Below I am sharing the complaint that we filed today in California >> >Court. >> >> > ************** >> >> > LaurEnce W. paradis (California Bar No. 122336) >> >> > >> >> > Anna levine (California Bar No. 227881) >> >> > >> >> > Disability Rights Advocates >> >> > >> >> > 2001 Center Street, Third Floor >> >> > >> >> > Berkeley, California 94704 >> >> > >> >> > Telephone: (510) 665-8644 >> >> > >> >> > Facsimile: (510) 665-8511 >> >> > >> >> > TTY: (510) 665-8716 >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > SCOTT LABARRE (to seek pro hac vice admission) >> >> > >> >> > LABARRE LAW OFFICES, P.C. >> >> > >> >> > 1660 S. Albion Street, Ste 918 >> >> > >> >> > Denver, Colo 80222 >> >> > >> >> > Telephone: (303) 504-5979 >> >> > >> >> > Fax: (303) 757-3640 >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > DANIEL F. GOLDSTEIN (to seek pro hac vice admission) >> >> > >> >> > MEHGAN Sidhu (to seek pro hac vice admission) >> >> > >> >> > Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP >> >> > >> >> > 120 E. Baltimore St., Suite 1700 >> >> > >> >> > Baltimore, MD 21202 >> >> > >> >> > Telephone: (410) 962-1030 >> >> > >> >> > Fax: (410) 385-0869 >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > SUPERIOR COURT OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA >> >> > COUNTY OF ALAMEDA >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > National Federation of the Blind, the National Federation of >> >> > the >> >> Blind >> >> > of CALIFORNIA, and DEEPA GORAYA, >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > Plaintiffs, >> >> > >> >> > v. >> >> > >> >> > LAW SCHOOL ADMISSION COUNCIL, INC., >> >> > >> >> > Defendant. >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > Case No.: >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > COMPLAINT FOR INJUNCTIVE AND DECLARATORY RELIEF FOR VIOLATIONS >> >> > OF >> >> THE >> >> > CALIFORNIA DISABLED PERSONS ACT AND UNRUH CIVIL RIGHTS ACT >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > INTRODUCTION >> >> > >> >> > Plaintiffs complain of Defendant and allege herein as follows: >> >> > >> >> > 1. This action, brought by the National Federation of the >> Blind, >> >> > the National Federation of the Blind of California, and Deepa >> >> > Goraya, >> >> seeks >> >> > to put an end to civil rights violations committed by defendant Law >> >> School >> >> > Admissions Council (hereafter "LSAC") against blind persons seeking >> >> > to >> >> take >> >> > the LSAT exam and apply to law schools. Plaintiff Deepa Goraya, a >> blind >> >> law >> >> > school applicant in California, has been and is being denied equal >> >access >> >> to >> >> > the accommodations, advantages, and facilities LSAC provides its >> >> > non-disabled customers through http://www.lsac.org (hereafter >> "lsac.org" >> >> > and "the website"). Plaintiffs National Federation of the Blind and >> the >> >> > National Federation of the Blind of California have members who are >> >> > similarly denied full and equal access to such accommodations, >> >advantages >> >> > and facilities. Lsac.org is currently the only place online where >> >> > prospective law students can register for the Law School Admissions >> Test >> >> > ("LSAT"), apply to law schools, and obtain official LSAT test >> >preparation >> >> > materials and information. Lsac.org contains multiple access >> >> > barriers >> >> that >> >> > make it difficult if not impossible for blind law school applicants >> and >> >> LSAT >> >> > test takers to use the website and to obtain practice materials >> without >> >> > sighted assistance. LSAC thus excludes the blind, including Ms. >> Goraya, >> >> > from full and equal access to the accommodations, advantages, >> >facilities, >> >> > and privileges of lsac.org. >> >> > >> >> > JURISDICTION >> >> > >> >> > 2. This is a civil action under California's Disabled >> >> > Persons >> >Act >> >> > (Cal. Civ. Code '' 54, et seq.) and the Unruh Civil Rights Act (Cal. >> >Civ. >> >> > Code '' 51, et seq.) and for declaratory relief. This Court has >> >> > jurisdiction over the claims alleged herein pursuant to California >> Civil >> >> > Code '' 54, et seq. and California Civil Code '' 51, et seq. and >> >> California >> >> > Code of Civil Procedure section 1060. >> >> > >> >> > 3. This Court has jurisdiction over LSAC because LSAC is a >> >> > corporation authorized to do business in California and LSAC >> >> > conducts >> >> > substantial business in California. LSAC owns, maintains and >> >> > operates >> >its >> >> > website, lsac.org, throughout California and in Alameda County. >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > VENUE >> >> > >> >> > 4. Venue is proper in Alameda County because liability >> >> > arises >> in >> >> > part in Alameda County, where the National Federation of the Blind >> >> > of >> >> > California has its headquarters. LSAC has been and is committing >> >> > the >> >> acts >> >> > alleged herein in Alameda County, has been and is violating the >> >> > rights >> >of >> >> > patrons in Alameda County, and has been and is causing injury to >> patrons >> >> in >> >> > Alameda County. >> >> > >> >> > 5. Plaintiff Goraya is a California citizen and has >> experienced >> >> > injury in California as a result of LSAC's inaccessible website and >> >> practice >> >> > materials. >> >> > >> >> > PARTIES >> >> > >> >> > 6. Plaintiff the National Federation of the Blind (hereafter >> >> "NFB") >> >> > is a national advocacy organization. The NFB, the oldest and >> >> > largest >> >> > national organization of blind persons, is a non-profit corporation >> duly >> >> > organized under the laws of the District of Columbia with its >> principal >> >> > place of business in Baltimore, Maryland. It has affiliates in all >> >> > 50 >> >> > states (including California) as well as Washington, D.C. and Puerto >> >> Rico. >> >> > The vast majority of the approximately 50,000 members are blind >> >persons. >> >> > The NFB is widely recognized by the public, Congress, executive >> >agencies >> >> of >> >> > government and the courts as a collective and representative voice >> >> > on >> >> behalf >> >> > of blind Americans and their families. The purpose of the NFB is to >> >> promote >> >> > the general welfare of the blind by (1) assisting the blind in their >> >> efforts >> >> > to integrate themselves into society on terms of equality and (2) >> >> removing >> >> > barriers and changing social attitudes, stereotypes and mistaken >> beliefs >> >> > that sighted and blind persons hold concerning the limitations >> >> > created >> >by >> >> > blindness resulting in the denial of opportunity to blind persons in >> >> > virtually every sphere of life. The NFB and many of its members >> >> > have >> >> long >> >> > been actively involved in promoting adaptive technology for the >> >> > blind, >> >so >> >> > that blind persons can live and work independently in today's >> >> > technology-dependent world. NFB members reside throughout the >> >> > United >> >> > States, including the state of California, and many of its members >> would >> >> use >> >> > the services of lsac.org if this website is made independently >> >> > usable >> by >> >> > the blind. >> >> > >> >> > 7. Plaintiff the National Federation of the Blind of >> California >> >> > (hereafter "NFB of California") is a state affiliate of the National >> >> > Federation of the Blind. NFB of California is a California >> corporation >> >> and >> >> > carries out NFB's objectives at the state level. It has local >> chapters >> >> > throughout California, including Alameda County, and has its >> >headquarters >> >> in >> >> > Fremont, California, in Alameda County. >> >> > >> >> > 8. Plaintiff Goraya is a member of the NFB and the NFB of >> >> > California. She is blind and has been denied full and equal access >> >> > to >> >> the >> >> > accommodations, advantages, facilities and privileges of lsac.org. >> >> > >> >> > 9. Defendant LSAC, is a non-profit corporation >> >> > established to coordinate, facilitate, and enhance the law school >> >> admissions >> >> > process. LSAC owns, operates and/or maintains the website lsac.com, >> >> > a >> >> > public accommodation. Plaintiffs seek access to the services >> >> > provided >> >by >> >> > LSAC in California through lsac.org. >> >> > >> >> > FACTS >> >> > >> >> > 10. Lsac.org is owned, controlled and/or operated by LSAC. >> >> Lsac.org >> >> > is a public accommodation that offers its visitors comprehensive >> >services >> >> > for applying to law school. The website functions as the official >> >> > destination for guiding prospective law school applicants through >> >> > the >> >> > fundamental steps of applying to law school. Among its services, >> >> lsac.orgoffers information about the LSAT and law school application >> >> process, and >> >> > extensive LSAT preparation materials and resources. Lsac.org also >> >serves >> >> as >> >> > the exclusive online means for registering for the LSAT and applying >> to >> >> > ABA-accredited law schools. >> >> > >> >> > 11. According to the website, lsac.org's online services >> >> > enable >> >> > prospective law students to do the following, among other things: >> >> > >> >> > a.. Register for the LSAT >> >> > b.. Register for the LSDAS (Law School Data Assembly Service) >> >> > c.. Purchase publications and test preparation materials >> >> > d.. Have access to electronic applications for all ABA-approved law >> >> > schools >> >> > e.. Apply online to law schools >> >> > f.. Register for law school forums >> >> > g.. Have 24-hour file access >> >> > 12. In addition to facilitating the LSAT and law school application >> >> > processes, a significant portion of the lsac.org website is devoted >> to >> >> > preparing students to take the LSAT. Among the services offered in >> that >> >> > regard are online information guides that explain how to prepare for >> the >> >> > LSAT and free, downloadable sample practice tests and test >> >> > questions. >> >> > Lsac.org also offers for a fee an online LSAT practice test tool >> >> > and >> >the >> >> > opportunity to purchase more than 40 official LSAT practice tests. >> >> > >> >> > 13. While sighted visitors to lsac.org can easily obtain the >> benefits >> >> and >> >> > advantages offered by the website, blind individuals, including Ms. >> >> Goraya, >> >> > have been and are being denied access to lsac.org due to LSAC's >> failure >> >> > and refusal to remove access barriers to lsac.org. Specifically, >> blind >> >> > visitors to the website, including Ms. Goraya, cannot independently >> >apply >> >> to >> >> > law school, register for the LSAT, or obtain in an accessible format >> the >> >> > LSAT preparation materials and practice tests available through >> lsac.org >> >> . >> >> > >> >> > 14. The blind access websites by using keyboards in >> >> > conjunction >> >> with >> >> > screen-reading software. This software vocalizes or conveys to a >> >> refreshable >> >> > Braille display information that appears visually on a computer >> screen. >> >> > Unless websites are designed to allow for use in this manner, blind >> >> persons >> >> > are unable to fully access the internet websites and the >> >> > information, >> >> > products and services contained therein. >> >> > >> >> > 15. There are well-established guidelines for making websites >> >> > accessible to the blind. These guidelines have been in place for at >> >> least >> >> > several years and have been followed successfully by other public >> >> > accommodations in making their online services accessible. The Web >> >> > Accessibility Initiative (WAI), a project of the World Wide Web >> >> Consortium, >> >> > which is the leading standards organization for the Web, has >> >> > developed >> >> > guidelines for making information that is reached via the internet >> >> > accessible. The federal government has also promulgated >> >> > accessibility >> >> > standards under Section 508 of the Rehabilitation Act. These >> guidelines >> >> > have long been readily available via the internet so that any public >> >> > accommodation could easily secure the necessary information. >> >> > >> >> > 16. Lsac.org contains a variety of access barriers that >> >> > prevent >> >> free >> >> > and full use by blind persons using keyboards and screen reading >> >> software. >> >> > These barriers include but are not limited to: lack of or >> >> > improperly >> >> > labeled form controls; faulty keyboard navigation; and use of tables >> and >> >> > charts that are not formatted for accessibility. Form controls >> >> > allow >> >> users >> >> > to input data on online forms and applications. These controls must >> be >> >> > coded and labeled to allow screen-access software to detect and >> vocalize >> >> the >> >> > requested information. Keyboard navigation refers to the ability to >> >> > successfully navigate a website using keyboard commands, as opposed >> >> > to >> >> > requiring a mouse as the exclusive means for navigation of the site. >> >> > Further, charts and tables must be formatted to work with >> screen-access >> >> > software. Much of the lsac.org website, and in particular the >> >> > online >> >> law >> >> > school application and LSAT registration sections of the website, >> >> > lack >> >> these >> >> > fundamental accessibility components. As a result, blind visitors >> >> > to >> >the >> >> > website cannot independently use those and other critical features. >> >> > >> >> > 17. Lsac.org's test preparation materials that are available >> >> > on >> >the >> >> > website in Adobe Portable Document (PDF) format, are not properly >> >> "tagged." >> >> > This means that the headings, paragraphs, tables, image >> >> > descriptions >> >and >> >> > form controls are not easily discernable to screen-reading software. >> As >> >> a >> >> > result, these materials are cumbersome, if not impossible, for a >> >> > blind >> >> > visitor to navigate. >> >> > >> >> > 18. Finally, lsac.org fails to offer LSAT practice tests, >> >> available >> >> > as part of its test preparation services, in formats accessible to >> >> > the >> >> > blind. While the sighted can easily use the website to obtain more >> than >> >> 40 >> >> > formerly administered LSAT practice tests, the website fails to >> >> > offer >> >the >> >> > opportunity to purchase these practice materials in formats >> >> > accessible >> >to >> >> > the blind, such as Braille or an accessible electronic format. >> >> > >> >> > 19. As a result of lsac.org's accessibility barriers, blind >> >> > law >> >> > school applicants, including Ms. Goraya, must go over extraordinary >> >> hurdles >> >> > to register and prepare for the LSAT and to apply to law school >> compared >> >> to >> >> > their sighted counterparts. After unsuccessfully attempting to use >> >> > lsac.org independently to register for the LSAT and fill out her law >> >> > school applications, for example, Plaintiff Goraya was forced to >> select >> >> and >> >> > rely upon a reader for over 50 hours simply to read aloud the >> >> > content >> of >> >> the >> >> > website and complete her law school applications. Moreover, none of >> the >> >> > LSAT practice materials, which include previously administered >> versions >> >> of >> >> > the test, were available to her in accessible electronic formats. >> >> Lsac.org >> >> > thus contains numerous access barriers which deny full and equal >> access >> >> to >> >> > Plaintiff, who would otherwise use the accommodations, advantages, >> >> > and >> >> > facilities of lsac.org. >> >> > >> >> > 20. On December 10, 2008, Plaintiff National Federation of the >> >> Blind >> >> > notified LSAC of the unlawful accessibility barriers on its website. >> >> LSAC >> >> > responded by setting up and then canceling a meeting with the NFB. >> >> > On >> >> > January 22, 2009, the NFB notified LSAC that it intended to pursue >> legal >> >> > action against LSAC for the unlawful barriers on its website. >> >> > >> >> > FIRST CAUSE OF ACTION >> >> > >> >> > (Violation of Cal. Civ. Code '' 54, et seq. - the Disabled Persons >> Act) >> >> > >> >> > 21. The allegations contained in the previous paragraphs are >> >> > incorporated by reference. >> >> > >> >> > 22. The Disabled Persons Act ("DPA") requires that individuals >> >with >> >> > disabilities have "full and equal access, as other members of the >> >general >> >> > public, to accommodations, advantages, facilities, . . . and other >> >places >> >> to >> >> > which the general public is invited, subject only to the conditions >> and >> >> > limitations established by law, or state or federal regulation, and >> >> > applicable alike to all persons." Cal. Civ. Code 54.1(a)(1). >> >> > >> >> > 23. Lsac.org, which is owned, operated and/or maintained by >> LSAC, >> >> is >> >> > an >> >> > >> >> > accommodation, advantage, facility and/or place to which the general >> >> public >> >> > is invited, as those terms are used in Cal. Civ. Code ' 54.1(a)(1). >> >> > >> >> > 24. Defendant's conduct alleged herein violates the DPA, >> including >> >> > Cal. Civ. Code ' 54.1(a)(1), by denying the Plaintiffs full and >> >> > equal >> >> access >> >> > to the accommodations, advantages and facilities of lsac.org. >> >> > >> >> > 25. As a result of Defendant's conduct, the NFB, the NFB of >> >> > California, and Ms. Goraya are entitled to injunctive relief >> >> > requiring >> >> > Defendant to make lsac.org accessible to blind individuals, and to >> make >> >> > the LSAT test practice materials offered to lsac.org patrons >> available >> >> to >> >> > blind people in an accessible format. >> >> > >> >> > SECOND CAUSE OF ACTION >> >> > >> >> > (Violation of Cal.Civ. Code '' 51, et seq. - The Unruh Act) >> >> > >> >> > 26. The allegations contained in the previous paragraphs are >> >> > incorporated by reference. >> >> > >> >> > 27. California's Unruh Act requires that individuals with >> >> > disabilities have "full and equal accommodations, advantages, >> >facilities, >> >> > privileges or services in all business establishments of every kind >> >> > whatsoever." Cal. Civ. Code ' 51(b). >> >> > >> >> > 28. LSAC and Lsac.org are business establishments as that term >> is >> >> > used in Cal. Civ. Code ' 51(b) and lsac.org is an accommodation, >> >> > advantage, facility, privilege and service of LSAC. >> >> > >> >> > 29. Defendant's conduct alleged herein violates the Unruh Act, >> >> > including Cal. Civ. Code ' 51(b), by denying Plaintiffs the full and >> >> equal >> >> > accommodations, advantages, facilities, privileges or services of >> >> > LSAC >> >> and >> >> > lsac.org. >> >> > >> >> > 30. Defendant violated the Unruh Act intentionally and/or with >> >> > deliberate indifference to the likelihood that it was violating the >> >> rights >> >> > of blind people and/or Defendant's violations were so intuitive or >> >> obvious >> >> > that noncompliance could not be other than intentional. >> >> > >> >> > 31. As a result of Defendant's conduct, the NFB, the NFB of >> >> > California, and Ms. Goraya are entitled to injunctive relief >> >> > requiring >> >> > Defendant to make lsac.org accessible to blind individuals, and to >> make >> >> > the LSAT test practice materials offered to lsac.org patrons >> available >> >> to >> >> > blind people in an accessible format. >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > THIRD CAUSE OF ACTION >> >> > >> >> > (Declaratory Relief, Cal. Civ. Proc. ' 1060 ) >> >> > >> >> > 32. The allegations contained in the previous paragraphs are >> >> > incorporated by reference. >> >> > >> >> > 33. On information and belief, Defendants contend that they >> >> > may >> >> > lawfully deny Plaintiffs access to their website and its contents. >> >> > Plaintiffs contend that lsac.org, which LSAC owns, operates, and/or >> >> > controls, must provide blind patrons access to its website and >> >> > website >> >> > contents under California Civil Code '' 54, et seq. and California >> Civil >> >> > Code '' 51, et seq., which prohibit discrimination against the >> >> > blind. >> >> > >> >> > 34. A judicial declaration is necessary and appropriate at >> >> > this >> >> time >> >> > in order that each of the parties may know their respective rights >> >> > and >> >> > duties and act accordingly. >> >> > >> >> > WHEREFORE, Plaintiffs request relief as set forth below. >> >> > >> >> > RELIEF REQUESTED >> >> > >> >> > WHEREFORE, Plaintiffs pray for judgment as follows: >> >> > >> >> > 1. An order enjoining LSAC from violating >> California >> >> > Civil Code '' 51, et seq. and '' 54, et seq.; >> >> > >> >> > 2. A declaration that LSAC is owning, maintaining >> >> and/or >> >> > operating lsac.org in a manner which discriminates against the blind >> and >> >> > which fails to provide access for persons with disabilities as >> required >> >> by >> >> > law; >> >> > >> >> > 3. Plaintiffs' reasonable attorneys' fees and >> >> > costs >> >as >> >> > authorized by California California Civil Code '' 54, et seq., >> >California >> >> > Civil Code '' 51, et seq., and pursuant to California Code of Civil >> >> > Procedure ' 1021.5. >> >> > >> >> > 4. Such other and further relief as the Court >> >> > deems >> >> just >> >> > and proper. >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > DATED: >> >> > DISABILITY RIGHTS ADVOCATES >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> By: >> >> > ____________________________ >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > Laurence W. Paradis >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. >> >> > >> >> > LaBarre Law Offices P.C. >> >> > 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 >> >> > Denver, Colorado 80222 >> >> > 303 504-5979 (voice) >> >> > 303 757-3640 (fax) >> >> > slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) >> >> > www.labarrelaw.com (website) >> >> > >> >> > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and >> >> > privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you >> may >> >> not >> >> > read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this >> >> message >> >> > in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or >> >> > slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. >> >> This >> >> > message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic >> >> > Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. '' 2510-2521. >> >> > _______________________________________________ >> >> > blindlaw mailing list >> >> > blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> >> > for >> >> > blindlaw: >> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b75205%40gmail.co >> m >> >> > >> >> > >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> blindlaw mailing list >> >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> >> blindlaw: >> >> >> >> >> > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/bspiry%40comcast >> . >> n >> >> et >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> blindlaw mailing list >> >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> >> blindlaw: >> >> >> >> >> > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b75205%40gmail.co >> m >> >> >> >_______________________________________________ >> >blindlaw mailing list >> >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> >blindlaw: >> > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/bspiry%40comcast >> . >> n >> >et >> >> >_______________________________________________ >> >blindlaw mailing list >> >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> >blindlaw: >> > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail >> .com >> >> >> >_______________________________________________ >> >blindlaw mailing list >> >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie%40mpmail.ne >> t >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mikefry79%40gmail.com >> > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail.com > From angie.matney at gmail.com Sat Mar 14 18:36:32 2009 From: angie.matney at gmail.com (Angie Matney) Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 14:36:32 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. lsac complaint Message-ID: Craig, My school says they do. I think a lot of schools say so on paper, but the schools still get to see all of an applicant's scores. Of course, the new system means they can report higher median scores. Angie Sent from my Nokia N82. -original message- Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. lsac complaint From: "Craig Borne" Date: 03/14/2009 2:25 AM Angie, I wonder how many ABA accredited schools will follow the ABA's advice. I really believe this is a better way to go, though neither the ABA or law schools in general have solicited my advice. Shame on them. Craig Craig Borne Baltimore, Maryland "A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial appearance of being right, and raises at first a formidable outcry in defense of custom." --Thomas Paine, Common Sense -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Angie Matney Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 12:55 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. lsac complaint Now that the ABA advises schools to only consider the highest score, it would seem to be less likely that a low first score would be considered irreparable harm. Angie On Fri, 13 Mar 2009 02:31:57 -0400, Rod Alcidonis wrote: >Well, academically speaking, the law suit could have prayed for a Temporary >Restraining Order, or a preliminary Injunction against the LSAC for folks >like you. Basically enjoined the LSAC from administering the exam until they >make the changes. The only difficulty with that I think justifies the reason >they probably did not pray for such a relief is that such a measure would >cause too much harm to the public, I.E, the thousands of law students and >schools who rely on the exam to make admissions decisions. Such an order >while it would have forced the LSAC to make the changes much faster, it >would have unreasonably halted the system for some times. If it were a class >action with thousands of members, it probably would have been easier to >argue, I think. Whether not passing an exam for the first time is considered >irreparable harm is another question -- you can still make the argument >under these circumstances. >Rod Alcidonis >Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009. >Roger Williams University School of Law >10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 >Bristol, RI 02809 >Cell: 718-704-4651 >Home: 401-824-8685 >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Bill Spiry" >To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2009 9:52 PM >Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. lsac complaint >I understand. What might be done to getLSAC to authorize use of this >material as an accessible alternative to what they have to offer? I know NFB >is sueing them, but in the mean time that leaves folks like me who don't >have the Adobe skills you have, and facing the LSAT soon without accessible >matter. Any ideas or suggestions? >Thanks. >-----Original Message----- >From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >Behalf Of James Pepper >Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 10:43 AM >To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. lsac complaint >Well Bill the content is copyrighted by LSAC so I am not sure I can send >this to you. Perhaps some on this list can give that advice. I laid it out >properly. >James >On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 9:05 AM, Bill Spiry wrote: >> I would appreciate receiving this as well. Thanks. >> bspiry at comcast.net >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf Of James Pepper >> Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 1:46 AM >> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. lsac complaint >> >> Scott: I laid out the first section of the LSAT to be accessible and I >> can >> send you the files if you would like to see it. Also I made the form that >> they use accessible so the blind can fill out the test without assistance. >> This works with JAWS and Window Eyes and a combination of Adobe's Read out >> Loud and Microsoft Narrator. My process works and if you need references >> at >> NFB, AFB and the AAPD I can send them to you. >> >> It took a while to figure out how they made thier pdfs and I know where >> they >> are making their mistakes. I can correct this problem. These PDFs are >made >> to work natively with JAWS and Adobe Reader and the other screen readers >> without making any adjustments. They work with the default settings in >> Adobe Reader. >> >> Also the forms can be digitally signed and saved and all that fancy stuff >> that you expect with Adobe Acrobat Professional can be done with >> Adobe Reader, versions 8 or 9 which is the free download from Adobe.com. >> So >> we can make the LSAT accessible to anyone with a PC running Windows XP Or >> VIsta without any change of settings. This means the PC can be there for >> the sighted and the blind, with equal access for all. >> >> Also since I labeled everything, it will be a lot quicker for you to fill >> out this test! >> >> Sincerely, >> >> James G. Pepper >> >> >> >> On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 4:32 PM, Scott C. LaBarre >> wrote: >> >> > Below I am sharing the complaint that we filed today in California >Court. >> > ************** >> > LaurEnce W. paradis (California Bar No. 122336) >> > >> > Anna levine (California Bar No. 227881) >> > >> > Disability Rights Advocates >> > >> > 2001 Center Street, Third Floor >> > >> > Berkeley, California 94704 >> > >> > Telephone: (510) 665-8644 >> > >> > Facsimile: (510) 665-8511 >> > >> > TTY: (510) 665-8716 >> > >> > >> > >> > SCOTT LABARRE (to seek pro hac vice admission) >> > >> > LABARRE LAW OFFICES, P.C. >> > >> > 1660 S. Albion Street, Ste 918 >> > >> > Denver, Colo 80222 >> > >> > Telephone: (303) 504-5979 >> > >> > Fax: (303) 757-3640 >> > >> > >> > >> > DANIEL F. GOLDSTEIN (to seek pro hac vice admission) >> > >> > MEHGAN Sidhu (to seek pro hac vice admission) >> > >> > Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP >> > >> > 120 E. Baltimore St., Suite 1700 >> > >> > Baltimore, MD 21202 >> > >> > Telephone: (410) 962-1030 >> > >> > Fax: (410) 385-0869 >> > >> > >> > >> > SUPERIOR COURT OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA >> > COUNTY OF ALAMEDA >> > >> > >> > >> > National Federation of the Blind, the National Federation of the >> Blind >> > of CALIFORNIA, and DEEPA GORAYA, >> > >> > >> > >> > Plaintiffs, >> > >> > v. >> > >> > LAW SCHOOL ADMISSION COUNCIL, INC., >> > >> > Defendant. >> > >> > >> > >> > Case No.: >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > COMPLAINT FOR INJUNCTIVE AND DECLARATORY RELIEF FOR VIOLATIONS OF >> THE >> > CALIFORNIA DISABLED PERSONS ACT AND UNRUH CIVIL RIGHTS ACT >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > INTRODUCTION >> > >> > Plaintiffs complain of Defendant and allege herein as follows: >> > >> > 1. This action, brought by the National Federation of the Blind, >> > the National Federation of the Blind of California, and Deepa Goraya, >> seeks >> > to put an end to civil rights violations committed by defendant Law >> School >> > Admissions Council (hereafter "LSAC") against blind persons seeking to >> take >> > the LSAT exam and apply to law schools. Plaintiff Deepa Goraya, a blind >> law >> > school applicant in California, has been and is being denied equal >access >> to >> > the accommodations, advantages, and facilities LSAC provides its >> > non-disabled customers through http://www.lsac.org (hereafter "lsac.org" >> > and "the website"). Plaintiffs National Federation of the Blind and the >> > National Federation of the Blind of California have members who are >> > similarly denied full and equal access to such accommodations, >advantages >> > and facilities. Lsac.org is currently the only place online where >> > prospective law students can register for the Law School Admissions Test >> > ("LSAT"), apply to law schools, and obtain official LSAT test >preparation >> > materials and information. Lsac.org contains multiple access barriers >> that >> > make it difficult if not impossible for blind law school applicants and >> LSAT >> > test takers to use the website and to obtain practice materials without >> > sighted assistance. LSAC thus excludes the blind, including Ms. Goraya, >> > from full and equal access to the accommodations, advantages, >facilities, >> > and privileges of lsac.org. >> > >> > JURISDICTION >> > >> > 2. This is a civil action under California's Disabled Persons >Act >> > (Cal. Civ. Code '' 54, et seq.) and the Unruh Civil Rights Act (Cal. >Civ. >> > Code '' 51, et seq.) and for declaratory relief. This Court has >> > jurisdiction over the claims alleged herein pursuant to California Civil >> > Code '' 54, et seq. and California Civil Code '' 51, et seq. and >> California >> > Code of Civil Procedure section 1060. >> > >> > 3. This Court has jurisdiction over LSAC because LSAC is a >> > corporation authorized to do business in California and LSAC conducts >> > substantial business in California. LSAC owns, maintains and operates >its >> > website, lsac.org, throughout California and in Alameda County. >> > >> > >> > >> > VENUE >> > >> > 4. Venue is proper in Alameda County because liability arises in >> > part in Alameda County, where the National Federation of the Blind of >> > California has its headquarters. LSAC has been and is committing the >> acts >> > alleged herein in Alameda County, has been and is violating the rights >of >> > patrons in Alameda County, and has been and is causing injury to patrons >> in >> > Alameda County. >> > >> > 5. Plaintiff Goraya is a California citizen and has experienced >> > injury in California as a result of LSAC's inaccessible website and >> practice >> > materials. >> > >> > PARTIES >> > >> > 6. Plaintiff the National Federation of the Blind (hereafter >> "NFB") >> > is a national advocacy organization. The NFB, the oldest and largest >> > national organization of blind persons, is a non-profit corporation duly >> > organized under the laws of the District of Columbia with its principal >> > place of business in Baltimore, Maryland. It has affiliates in all 50 >> > states (including California) as well as Washington, D.C. and Puerto >> Rico. >> > The vast majority of the approximately 50,000 members are blind >persons. >> > The NFB is widely recognized by the public, Congress, executive >agencies >> of >> > government and the courts as a collective and representative voice on >> behalf >> > of blind Americans and their families. The purpose of the NFB is to >> promote >> > the general welfare of the blind by (1) assisting the blind in their >> efforts >> > to integrate themselves into society on terms of equality and (2) >> removing >> > barriers and changing social attitudes, stereotypes and mistaken beliefs >> > that sighted and blind persons hold concerning the limitations created >by >> > blindness resulting in the denial of opportunity to blind persons in >> > virtually every sphere of life. The NFB and many of its members have >> long >> > been actively involved in promoting adaptive technology for the blind, >so >> > that blind persons can live and work independently in today's >> > technology-dependent world. NFB members reside throughout the United >> > States, including the state of California, and many of its members would >> use >> > the services of lsac.org if this website is made independently usable by >> > the blind. >> > >> > 7. Plaintiff the National Federation of the Blind of California >> > (hereafter "NFB of California") is a state affiliate of the National >> > Federation of the Blind. NFB of California is a California corporation >> and >> > carries out NFB's objectives at the state level. It has local chapters >> > throughout California, including Alameda County, and has its >headquarters >> in >> > Fremont, California, in Alameda County. >> > >> > 8. Plaintiff Goraya is a member of the NFB and the NFB of >> > California. She is blind and has been denied full and equal access to >> the >> > accommodations, advantages, facilities and privileges of lsac.org. >> > >> > 9. Defendant LSAC, is a non-profit corporation >> > established to coordinate, facilitate, and enhance the law school >> admissions >> > process. LSAC owns, operates and/or maintains the website lsac.com, a >> > public accommodation. Plaintiffs seek access to the services provided >by >> > LSAC in California through lsac.org. >> > >> > FACTS >> > >> > 10. Lsac.org is owned, controlled and/or operated by LSAC. >> Lsac.org >> > is a public accommodation that offers its visitors comprehensive >services >> > for applying to law school. The website functions as the official >> > destination for guiding prospective law school applicants through the >> > fundamental steps of applying to law school. Among its services, >> lsac.orgoffers information about the LSAT and law school application >> process, and >> > extensive LSAT preparation materials and resources. Lsac.org also >serves >> as >> > the exclusive online means for registering for the LSAT and applying to >> > ABA-accredited law schools. >> > >> > 11. According to the website, lsac.org's online services enable >> > prospective law students to do the following, among other things: >> > >> > a.. Register for the LSAT >> > b.. Register for the LSDAS (Law School Data Assembly Service) >> > c.. Purchase publications and test preparation materials >> > d.. Have access to electronic applications for all ABA-approved law >> > schools >> > e.. Apply online to law schools >> > f.. Register for law school forums >> > g.. Have 24-hour file access >> > 12. In addition to facilitating the LSAT and law school application >> > processes, a significant portion of the lsac.org website is devoted to >> > preparing students to take the LSAT. Among the services offered in that >> > regard are online information guides that explain how to prepare for the >> > LSAT and free, downloadable sample practice tests and test questions. >> > Lsac.org also offers for a fee an online LSAT practice test tool and >the >> > opportunity to purchase more than 40 official LSAT practice tests. >> > >> > 13. While sighted visitors to lsac.org can easily obtain the benefits >> and >> > advantages offered by the website, blind individuals, including Ms. >> Goraya, >> > have been and are being denied access to lsac.org due to LSAC's failure >> > and refusal to remove access barriers to lsac.org. Specifically, blind >> > visitors to the website, including Ms. Goraya, cannot independently >apply >> to >> > law school, register for the LSAT, or obtain in an accessible format the >> > LSAT preparation materials and practice tests available through lsac.org >> . >> > >> > 14. The blind access websites by using keyboards in conjunction >> with >> > screen-reading software. This software vocalizes or conveys to a >> refreshable >> > Braille display information that appears visually on a computer screen. >> > Unless websites are designed to allow for use in this manner, blind >> persons >> > are unable to fully access the internet websites and the information, >> > products and services contained therein. >> > >> > 15. There are well-established guidelines for making websites >> > accessible to the blind. These guidelines have been in place for at >> least >> > several years and have been followed successfully by other public >> > accommodations in making their online services accessible. The Web >> > Accessibility Initiative (WAI), a project of the World Wide Web >> Consortium, >> > which is the leading standards organization for the Web, has developed >> > guidelines for making information that is reached via the internet >> > accessible. The federal government has also promulgated accessibility >> > standards under Section 508 of the Rehabilitation Act. These guidelines >> > have long been readily available via the internet so that any public >> > accommodation could easily secure the necessary information. >> > >> > 16. Lsac.org contains a variety of access barriers that prevent >> free >> > and full use by blind persons using keyboards and screen reading >> software. >> > These barriers include but are not limited to: lack of or improperly >> > labeled form controls; faulty keyboard navigation; and use of tables and >> > charts that are not formatted for accessibility. Form controls allow >> users >> > to input data on online forms and applications. These controls must be >> > coded and labeled to allow screen-access software to detect and vocalize >> the >> > requested information. Keyboard navigation refers to the ability to >> > successfully navigate a website using keyboard commands, as opposed to >> > requiring a mouse as the exclusive means for navigation of the site. >> > Further, charts and tables must be formatted to work with screen-access >> > software. Much of the lsac.org website, and in particular the online >> law >> > school application and LSAT registration sections of the website, lack >> these >> > fundamental accessibility components. As a result, blind visitors to >the >> > website cannot independently use those and other critical features. >> > >> > 17. Lsac.org's test preparation materials that are available on >the >> > website in Adobe Portable Document (PDF) format, are not properly >> "tagged." >> > This means that the headings, paragraphs, tables, image descriptions >and >> > form controls are not easily discernable to screen-reading software. As >> a >> > result, these materials are cumbersome, if not impossible, for a blind >> > visitor to navigate. >> > >> > 18. Finally, lsac.org fails to offer LSAT practice tests, >> available >> > as part of its test preparation services, in formats accessible to the >> > blind. While the sighted can easily use the website to obtain more than >> 40 >> > formerly administered LSAT practice tests, the website fails to offer >the >> > opportunity to purchase these practice materials in formats accessible >to >> > the blind, such as Braille or an accessible electronic format. >> > >> > 19. As a result of lsac.org's accessibility barriers, blind law >> > school applicants, including Ms. Goraya, must go over extraordinary >> hurdles >> > to register and prepare for the LSAT and to apply to law school compared >> to >> > their sighted counterparts. After unsuccessfully attempting to use >> > lsac.org independently to register for the LSAT and fill out her law >> > school applications, for example, Plaintiff Goraya was forced to select >> and >> > rely upon a reader for over 50 hours simply to read aloud the content of >> the >> > website and complete her law school applications. Moreover, none of the >> > LSAT practice materials, which include previously administered versions >> of >> > the test, were available to her in accessible electronic formats. >> Lsac.org >> > thus contains numerous access barriers which deny full and equal access >> to >> > Plaintiff, who would otherwise use the accommodations, advantages, and >> > facilities of lsac.org. >> > >> > 20. On December 10, 2008, Plaintiff National Federation of the >> Blind >> > notified LSAC of the unlawful accessibility barriers on its website. >> LSAC >> > responded by setting up and then canceling a meeting with the NFB. On >> > January 22, 2009, the NFB notified LSAC that it intended to pursue legal >> > action against LSAC for the unlawful barriers on its website. >> > >> > FIRST CAUSE OF ACTION >> > >> > (Violation of Cal. Civ. Code '' 54, et seq. - the Disabled Persons Act) >> > >> > 21. The allegations contained in the previous paragraphs are >> > incorporated by reference. >> > >> > 22. The Disabled Persons Act ("DPA") requires that individuals >with >> > disabilities have "full and equal access, as other members of the >general >> > public, to accommodations, advantages, facilities, . . . and other >places >> to >> > which the general public is invited, subject only to the conditions and >> > limitations established by law, or state or federal regulation, and >> > applicable alike to all persons." Cal. Civ. Code 54.1(a)(1). >> > >> > 23. Lsac.org, which is owned, operated and/or maintained by LSAC, >> is >> > an >> > >> > accommodation, advantage, facility and/or place to which the general >> public >> > is invited, as those terms are used in Cal. Civ. Code ' 54.1(a)(1). >> > >> > 24. Defendant's conduct alleged herein violates the DPA, including >> > Cal. Civ. Code ' 54.1(a)(1), by denying the Plaintiffs full and equal >> access >> > to the accommodations, advantages and facilities of lsac.org. >> > >> > 25. As a result of Defendant's conduct, the NFB, the NFB of >> > California, and Ms. Goraya are entitled to injunctive relief requiring >> > Defendant to make lsac.org accessible to blind individuals, and to make >> > the LSAT test practice materials offered to lsac.org patrons available >> to >> > blind people in an accessible format. >> > >> > SECOND CAUSE OF ACTION >> > >> > (Violation of Cal.Civ. Code '' 51, et seq. - The Unruh Act) >> > >> > 26. The allegations contained in the previous paragraphs are >> > incorporated by reference. >> > >> > 27. California's Unruh Act requires that individuals with >> > disabilities have "full and equal accommodations, advantages, >facilities, >> > privileges or services in all business establishments of every kind >> > whatsoever." Cal. Civ. Code ' 51(b). >> > >> > 28. LSAC and Lsac.org are business establishments as that term is >> > used in Cal. Civ. Code ' 51(b) and lsac.org is an accommodation, >> > advantage, facility, privilege and service of LSAC. >> > >> > 29. Defendant's conduct alleged herein violates the Unruh Act, >> > including Cal. Civ. Code ' 51(b), by denying Plaintiffs the full and >> equal >> > accommodations, advantages, facilities, privileges or services of LSAC >> and >> > lsac.org. >> > >> > 30. Defendant violated the Unruh Act intentionally and/or with >> > deliberate indifference to the likelihood that it was violating the >> rights >> > of blind people and/or Defendant's violations were so intuitive or >> obvious >> > that noncompliance could not be other than intentional. >> > >> > 31. As a result of Defendant's conduct, the NFB, the NFB of >> > California, and Ms. Goraya are entitled to injunctive relief requiring >> > Defendant to make lsac.org accessible to blind individuals, and to make >> > the LSAT test practice materials offered to lsac.org patrons available >> to >> > blind people in an accessible format. >> > >> > >> > >> > THIRD CAUSE OF ACTION >> > >> > (Declaratory Relief, Cal. Civ. Proc. ' 1060 ) >> > >> > 32. The allegations contained in the previous paragraphs are >> > incorporated by reference. >> > >> > 33. On information and belief, Defendants contend that they may >> > lawfully deny Plaintiffs access to their website and its contents. >> > Plaintiffs contend that lsac.org, which LSAC owns, operates, and/or >> > controls, must provide blind patrons access to its website and website >> > contents under California Civil Code '' 54, et seq. and California Civil >> > Code '' 51, et seq., which prohibit discrimination against the blind. >> > >> > 34. A judicial declaration is necessary and appropriate at this >> time >> > in order that each of the parties may know their respective rights and >> > duties and act accordingly. >> > >> > WHEREFORE, Plaintiffs request relief as set forth below. >> > >> > RELIEF REQUESTED >> > >> > WHEREFORE, Plaintiffs pray for judgment as follows: >> > >> > 1. An order enjoining LSAC from violating California >> > Civil Code '' 51, et seq. and '' 54, et seq.; >> > >> > 2. A declaration that LSAC is owning, maintaining >> and/or >> > operating lsac.org in a manner which discriminates against the blind and >> > which fails to provide access for persons with disabilities as required >> by >> > law; >> > >> > 3. Plaintiffs' reasonable attorneys' fees and costs >as >> > authorized by California California Civil Code '' 54, et seq., >California >> > Civil Code '' 51, et seq., and pursuant to California Code of Civil >> > Procedure ' 1021.5. >> > >> > 4. Such other and further relief as the Court deems >> just >> > and proper. >> > >> > >> > >> > DATED: >> > DISABILITY RIGHTS ADVOCATES >> > >> > >> > >> > >> By: >> > ____________________________ >> > >> > >> > Laurence W. Paradis >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. >> > >> > LaBarre Law Offices P.C. >> > 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 >> > Denver, Colorado 80222 >> > 303 504-5979 (voice) >> > 303 757-3640 (fax) >> > slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) >> > www.labarrelaw.com (website) >> > >> > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and >> > privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may >> not >> > read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this >> message >> > in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or >> > slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. >> This >> > message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic >> > Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. '' 2510-2521. >> > _______________________________________________ >> > blindlaw mailing list >> > blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> > blindlaw: >> > >> > >> >> >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b75205%40gmail.co m >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> >> >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/bspiry%40comcast. n >> et >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> >> >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b75205%40gmail.co m >> >_______________________________________________ >blindlaw mailing list >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >blindlaw: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/bspiry%40comcast. n >et >_______________________________________________ >blindlaw mailing list >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >blindlaw: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail .com >_______________________________________________ >blindlaw mailing list >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie%40mpmail.ne t _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie.matney%40gmail.com From angie at mpmail.net Sat Mar 14 19:14:47 2009 From: angie at mpmail.net (Angie Matney) Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 15:14:47 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Joe asked: >What troubles me is that my question of accessibility standards has not been >answered on the other case against the LSAC. The same question is >applicable here. What standard was used to conclude that the web site was >not accessible? I do not claim to be a genius at manipulating technology to >serve my needs, but I did not have to try hard at all to make Target give me >what I needed between 2005 and 2008. I can't compare the relative accessibility of the Target site to the LSAC site because I haven't attempted to shop at Target's site. But the LSAC site is inaccessible to every person who uses JAWS as their sole means of accessing the internet. (At least, this was the case when I applied to law schools in the fall of 2005.) Perhaps I overestimate my own abilities, but I feel pretty confident in saying that I can get just about any marginally accessible site to do what I want. But I could not apply to law school without the aid of multiple friends who served as readers. In fall, 2005, the application forms used by LSAC were not accessible with JAWS. I believe I was able to enter information into the "general" form, which then populated each application form with my personal data. But the specific application forms didn't speak. So is the problem the web site layout, >or is it our own technology training? Rather than chase every entity with >features a few people deem inaccessible, would it not be prudent to take our >standards, whatever those may be, to the classroom, to the software >developers, the relevant associations raising the performance standards of >its students and members? Possibly. But on the other hand, why should blind people have to be especially proficient computer users to access things like a retail web site? There will always be people who, for whatever reason, do not have the opportunity to receive the kind of training you're talking about. There will be others who, regardless of training, possess less intuition about how to operate a screen reader in unfamiliar circumstances. I'm not suggesting that web site developers should assume zero training on the part of the end user; but relying on extensive training to guarantee accessibility automatically means some people will be excluded. This reminds me of an experience I had a few months back. I was flying to Boston to visit a friend, and I wanted to reserve window seats. I was presented with an image map that seemed to give me this opportunity. I thought about how best to approach the thing, made an educated guess about what to do, and successfully reserved the seats I wanted. (The gate agent later happily informed me that he'd gone ahead and moved me to bulkhead seating because of my dog. I told him I wanted my chosen seat. He refused, claiming regs required him to put me there. Fortunately the flight attendant let me have the seat I'd worked so hard to reserve. I wish I'd filed a formal complaint about that...But I digress.) I later heard a blind friend, who is also quite proficient with access technology, characterize what I assume was a similar site (possibly even the same airline site) as inaccessible. I personally don't believe that the fact that I was able to figure this out makes the site accessible. A sighted user would not have to work nearly so hard to reserve a seat on a flight. There will always be some people who are intimidated by the internet in general. These individuals will have trouble accessing the basic features of many web sites. (My dad is one such person, and he's not blind.) But if reasonably proficient blind computer users can't access a site, I think it's perfectly reasonable to insist on modifications. We don't want an internet that is only accessible to those of us who have had the most opportunities. JMO, Angie From bspiry at comcast.net Sat Mar 14 20:21:49 2009 From: bspiry at comcast.net (Bill Spiry) Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 13:21:49 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target References: Message-ID: <000f01c9a4e2$815a4230$840ec690$@net> I completely agree with Angie's perspective on this. The reality is that if a blind person is able to navigate the internet and get to the site of a retailer, that blind person likely already has a higher skill level with the computer, out of simple necessity, than the average sighted person who simply uses their PC to browse the web, do some shopping and send a few emails. We will never be free of the necessity to learn the skills of blindness in order to live "normal" lives, but by God we should not be required to developed specialized technical and functional skills in order to use simple services and enjoy privledges when those services and privledges can be made accessible with limited cost and effort. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Angie Matney Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 12:15 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target Joe asked: >What troubles me is that my question of accessibility standards has not been >answered on the other case against the LSAC. The same question is >applicable here. What standard was used to conclude that the web site was >not accessible? I do not claim to be a genius at manipulating technology to >serve my needs, but I did not have to try hard at all to make Target give me >what I needed between 2005 and 2008. I can't compare the relative accessibility of the Target site to the LSAC site because I haven't attempted to shop at Target's site. But the LSAC site is inaccessible to every person who uses JAWS as their sole means of accessing the internet. (At least, this was the case when I applied to law schools in the fall of 2005.) Perhaps I overestimate my own abilities, but I feel pretty confident in saying that I can get just about any marginally accessible site to do what I want. But I could not apply to law school without the aid of multiple friends who served as readers. In fall, 2005, the application forms used by LSAC were not accessible with JAWS. I believe I was able to enter information into the "general" form, which then populated each application form with my personal data. But the specific application forms didn't speak. So is the problem the web site layout, >or is it our own technology training? Rather than chase every entity with >features a few people deem inaccessible, would it not be prudent to take our >standards, whatever those may be, to the classroom, to the software >developers, the relevant associations raising the performance standards of >its students and members? Possibly. But on the other hand, why should blind people have to be especially proficient computer users to access things like a retail web site? There will always be people who, for whatever reason, do not have the opportunity to receive the kind of training you're talking about. There will be others who, regardless of training, possess less intuition about how to operate a screen reader in unfamiliar circumstances. I'm not suggesting that web site developers should assume zero training on the part of the end user; but relying on extensive training to guarantee accessibility automatically means some people will be excluded. This reminds me of an experience I had a few months back. I was flying to Boston to visit a friend, and I wanted to reserve window seats. I was presented with an image map that seemed to give me this opportunity. I thought about how best to approach the thing, made an educated guess about what to do, and successfully reserved the seats I wanted. (The gate agent later happily informed me that he'd gone ahead and moved me to bulkhead seating because of my dog. I told him I wanted my chosen seat. He refused, claiming regs required him to put me there. Fortunately the flight attendant let me have the seat I'd worked so hard to reserve. I wish I'd filed a formal complaint about that...But I digress.) I later heard a blind friend, who is also quite proficient with access technology, characterize what I assume was a similar site (possibly even the same airline site) as inaccessible. I personally don't believe that the fact that I was able to figure this out makes the site accessible. A sighted user would not have to work nearly so hard to reserve a seat on a flight. There will always be some people who are intimidated by the internet in general. These individuals will have trouble accessing the basic features of many web sites. (My dad is one such person, and he's not blind.) But if reasonably proficient blind computer users can't access a site, I think it's perfectly reasonable to insist on modifications. We don't want an internet that is only accessible to those of us who have had the most opportunities. JMO, Angie _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/bspiry%40comcast.n et From stevep.deeley at insightbb.com Sat Mar 14 20:52:25 2009 From: stevep.deeley at insightbb.com (Steve P. Deeley) Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 16:52:25 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target In-Reply-To: References: <549FC55C53E54BA5814FA71C231CE71F@StevePC> <489BACB231A24B1494701FE7E81396B8@StevePC> <3C355AFB1ACB43EEBDBD9356D3EFBF38@StevePC> Message-ID: <90478605097E4FFFBD705620CC057167@StevePC> I will guarantee most individuals in our society don't agree with the way damages are calculated. You are a lawyer, so that sort of argument from you is expected, Especially telling others who don't agree with your position or, the position of most lawyers,concerning the calculation of damages in these civil rights cases. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rod Alcidonis" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 2:23 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target If damages are not awarded as a remedy at law, the next option would be to grant some equitable relief like an injunction. No court will ask Target to shut down its website until it make it accessible to the blind. This would be considered economic waste and against the public interest if millions of people are forced to stop shopping on line. In the law's eyes, what the plaintiffs really want is for their civil rights not to be violated. If one accept to go ahead and violate them, the least that the law can afford to those plaintiffs is money. The court knows that money is not primarily what the plaintiffs are seeking, but there must be a way for the defendant to answer to society for its wrong doing. Here, it was by making the defendant compensate the plaintiffs for the harm that it caused, I.E, by making the defendant pay for violating the plaintiffs' civil rights. Keep saying the following outloud you will get it: "the damages was for the violation of the plaintiffs' civil rights, not for any physical pain or frustration in not using the Target website." For further edification of your understanding: Once the court can calculate a dollar amount (hence the amount of the damages award), equitable relief is not necessary and such prayers will not be entertained in a court of equity. Here, the court was able to come up with a dollar amount for the violation of the plaintiffs' civil rights. Steve, unless you accept to place your emotions aside and exercise a little willingness to learn, even for one day, your reactions will continue to come across as being very uninformed. I don't think you want that. That's why some of us are trying to help you here while most have resolved to ignoring your comments. If you continue to persist along the same line in light of the effort that's been made to help you out, I will have to conclude in a very respectable way that you are just an ignorant man. I am sorry. Take care. Rod Alcidonis Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009. Roger Williams University School of Law 10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 Bristol, RI 02809 Cell: 718-704-4651 Home: 401-824-8685 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. Deeley" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 12:41 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target I understand that, however, I just do not agree with the entire concept of awarding damages in this sort of case. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rod Alcidonis" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 9:27 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target Steve: The effort here was to try to help your understanding and educate your logic, not to justify the existence of the legal system. I am afraid that you are still not willing to accept that "damage" as used in the law is a term of art. Meaning, It has a specific legal definition different from normal use. It is different when you say that "my bicycle was damaged, for example. It is a legal recognition that certain harms should be compensated. In this case, the plaintiffs are being paid not for the fact that they were physically damage in the normal use of the term, but for violations of their civil rights. See Denis' e-mail for what the harm was. In the bicycle example, if someone were to break your bicycle, you can receive "damages" as the cost of repair, or replacement of the bicycle. By the way, you are also entitled to enforce your civil rights if you so choose and receive damages. Not every violations entitle someone to such remedy. When a person cannot get damages under the law, that person has the option of seeking equitable relief in the form of an injunction or restraining order against the defendant. In this case damages was available as a remedy so the plaintiffs are getting money. They are getting paid because their civil rights were violated. I hope this further helps inform your comments. Take care. Rod Alcidonis Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009. Roger Williams University School of Law 10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 Bristol, RI 02809 Cell: 718-704-4651 Home: 401-824-8685 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. Deeley" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 9:22 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target That is a lawyer talking who makes his living in rediculous situations like this one. Again, you show me how an individual was damaged and out $4,000.00. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott C. LaBarre" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 5:38 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target Violation of civil rights has long been recognized as a form of compensible legal damage as well it should be. Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. LaBarre Law Offices P.C. 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 Denver, Colorado 80222 303 504-5979 (voice) 303 757-3640 (fax) slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) www.labarrelaw.com (website) CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. Deeley" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 2:31 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > This is ridiculous! How were these people damaged? > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mehgan Sidhu" > To: > Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 3:20 PM > Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > >> To answer the recent questions posted about the Target case, the final >> settlement hearing took place on March 9th. I understand from our >> counsel in California, Larry Paradis of DRA and Josh Konecky, that there >> were no objectors and the Judge was pleased with the resolution of the >> case. The settlement is not fully "final" until the time for any >> appeals has run - which is about 30 days. Given there were no objectors, >> it is highly unlikely that any appeals will be filed. The judge has not >> yet made a ruling on attorneys fees, but that will not hold up >> enforcement of the settlement. >> >> >> >> As for disbursements, assuming there are no appeals, the claims >> administer has 45 days from the final approval date to disburse funds to >> claimants. I do not know the final tally of approved claimants, though I >> think there were several hundred. I will pass that information along >> when I have it. >> >> >> >> We will now be working on enforcing the settlement commitments that >> Target made with respect to the accessibility of the website. >> >> >> Mehgan Sidhu >> Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP >> 120 East Baltimore Street, Suite 1700 >> Baltimore, Maryland 21202 >> 410-962-1030 x1324 >> 410-385-0869 (fax) >> ms at browngold.com >> www.browngold.com >> >> Confidentiality Notice >> >> This e-mail may contain confidential information that may also be legally >> privileged and that is intended only for the use of the addressee(s) >> named above. If you are not the intended recipient or an authorized >> agent of the recipient, please be advised that any dissemination or >> copying of this e-mail, or taking of any action in reliance on the >> information contained herein, is strictly prohibited. If you have >> received this e-mail in error, please notify me immediately by use of the >> reply button, and then delete the e-mail from your system. Thank you! >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release Date: 03/13/09 > 05:59:00 > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/slabarre%40labarrelaw.com > _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release Date: 03/13/09 05:59:00 _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/2001 - Release Date: 03/14/09 06:54:00 _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/2001 - Release Date: 03/14/09 06:54:00 From angie at mpmail.net Sat Mar 14 21:16:30 2009 From: angie at mpmail.net (Angie Matney) Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 17:16:30 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Multiple LSAT Scores In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Here's what UVA's web site says: What is your policy on multiple LSAT scores? The ABA requires law schools to report LSAT information using an admitted students highest score, so that is the score to which we give the most weight. We evaluate all information submitted as part of the application for admission, however, including all scores earned on the LSAT. Studies by the Law School Admission Council suggest that in most cases the average score is the most accurate predictor of academic performance in the first year of law school, so we encourage applicants with a significant difference in LSAT scores to include with their application any information that may be relevant to the interpretation of test results, such as illness, testing conditions, or other circumstances that may have affected LSAT performance. From carter.tjoseph at gmail.com Sat Mar 14 21:55:46 2009 From: carter.tjoseph at gmail.com (T. Joseph Carter) Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 14:55:46 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target In-Reply-To: <78726D7BDC0D4E1EBBAE1E83A3D6FE14@StevePC> References: <549FC55C53E54BA5814FA71C231CE71F@StevePC> <489BACB231A24B1494701FE7E81396B8@StevePC> <78726D7BDC0D4E1EBBAE1E83A3D6FE14@StevePC> Message-ID: <20090314215546.GF82715@yumi.bluecherry.net> Steve, I think you missed the whole point of what statutory damages are for. If I am doing something that could cost me $4,000 per person, per incident, I'm not very likely to do it am I? California's lawmakers (who arguably spend too much time in the Marijuana clinics if you look at some of the hair-brained things they've tried to make law) have decided to make the minimum amount of damage be $4,000 so that people will not discriminate. Their thinking was that this was high enough to convince them not to do it--or failing that a couple of really high profile cases like ours with Target would make people think twice. You can whine about the injustice of a huge cash payout to those blind Californians lucky enough to have attempted to use Target's website, but the fact remains that the payout is essentially how the California government has decided to punish discrimination. I say good for them. If discrimination can be proven 36 years after the Rehab Act and 18 years after the ADA, then obviously some people stubbornly refuse to get the message. Joseph On Sat, Mar 14, 2009 at 09:24:24AM -0400, Steve P. Deeley wrote: > That should not result in you receiving damages of almost $4,000.00. From timandvickie at hotmail.com Sat Mar 14 21:59:04 2009 From: timandvickie at hotmail.com (Tim Shaw) Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 21:59:04 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target In-Reply-To: <000f01c9a4e2$815a4230$840ec690$@net> References: <000f01c9a4e2$815a4230$840ec690$@net> Message-ID: heh the skills of blindness;) i had a job interview to be a rehabilitation teacher for the blind on Thursdfday and all the interview questions were like "what is a goal a blind person might set for themselves" and "what are some things a blind person could use to aide them in their every day living" it was like really are you asking me, a blind person, these questions lol. > From: bspiry at comcast.net > To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org > Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 13:21:49 -0700 > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > I completely agree with Angie's perspective on this. The reality is that if > a blind person is able to navigate the internet and get to the site of a > retailer, that blind person likely already has a higher skill level with the > computer, out of simple necessity, than the average sighted person who > simply uses their PC to browse the web, do some shopping and send a few > emails. We will never be free of the necessity to learn the skills of > blindness in order to live "normal" lives, but by God we should not be > required to developed specialized technical and functional skills in order > to use simple services and enjoy privledges when those services and > privledges can be made accessible with limited cost and effort. > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of Angie Matney > Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 12:15 PM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > Joe asked: > > >What troubles me is that my question of accessibility standards has not > been > >answered on the other case against the LSAC. The same question is > >applicable here. What standard was used to conclude that the web site was > >not accessible? I do not claim to be a genius at manipulating technology > to > >serve my needs, but I did not have to try hard at all to make Target give > me > >what I needed between 2005 and 2008. > > I can't compare the relative accessibility of the Target site to the LSAC > site because I haven't attempted to shop at Target's site. But the LSAC site > is inaccessible to every person who uses JAWS as their sole means of > accessing the internet. > (At least, this was the case when I applied to law schools in the fall of > 2005.) Perhaps I overestimate my own abilities, but I feel pretty confident > in saying that I can get just about any marginally accessible site to do > what I want. But I could not > apply to law school without the aid of multiple friends who served as > readers. In fall, 2005, the application forms used by LSAC were not > accessible with JAWS. I believe I was able to enter information into the > "general" form, which then > populated each application form with my personal data. But the specific > application forms didn't speak. > > So is the problem the web site layout, > >or is it our own technology training? Rather than chase every entity with > >features a few people deem inaccessible, would it not be prudent to take > our > >standards, whatever those may be, to the classroom, to the software > >developers, the relevant associations raising the performance standards of > >its students and members? > > Possibly. But on the other hand, why should blind people have to be > especially proficient computer users to access things like a retail web > site? There will always be people who, for whatever reason, do not have the > opportunity to receive the > kind of training you're talking about. There will be others who, regardless > of training, possess less intuition about how to operate a screen reader in > unfamiliar circumstances. I'm not suggesting that web site developers should > assume zero > training on the part of the end user; but relying on extensive training to > guarantee accessibility automatically means some people will be excluded. > > This reminds me of an experience I had a few months back. I was flying to > Boston to visit a friend, and I wanted to reserve window seats. I was > presented with an image map that seemed to give me this opportunity. I > thought about how best to > approach the thing, made an educated guess about what to do, and > successfully reserved the seats I wanted. (The gate agent later happily > informed me that he'd gone ahead and moved me to bulkhead seating because of > my dog. I told him > I wanted my chosen seat. He refused, claiming regs required him to put me > there. Fortunately the flight attendant let me have the seat I'd worked so > hard to reserve. I wish I'd filed a formal complaint about that...But I > digress.) I later heard a > blind friend, who is also quite proficient with access technology, > characterize what I assume was a similar site (possibly even the same > airline site) as inaccessible. I personally don't believe that the fact that > I was able to figure this out makes > the site accessible. A sighted user would not have to work nearly so hard to > reserve a seat on a flight. > > There will always be some people who are intimidated by the internet in > general. These individuals will have trouble accessing the basic features of > many web sites. (My dad is one such person, and he's not blind.) But if > reasonably proficient > blind computer users can't access a site, I think it's perfectly reasonable > to insist on modifications. We don't want an internet that is only > accessible to those of us who have had the most opportunities. > > JMO, > > Angie > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/bspiry%40comcast.n > et > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/timandvickie%40hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ Express your personality in color! Preview and select themes for Hotmail®. http://www.windowslive-hotmail.com/LearnMore/personalize.aspx?ocid=TXT_MSGTX_WL_HM_express_032009#colortheme From cdanielsen8 at aol.com Sat Mar 14 22:02:30 2009 From: cdanielsen8 at aol.com (Chris Danielsen) Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 18:02:30 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target In-Reply-To: <588EC588BDA14F18B7560ACF4C83829B@StevePC> References: <549FC55C53E54BA5814FA71C231CE71F@StevePC><001301c9a442$63a1e180$6401a8c0@server> <588EC588BDA14F18B7560ACF4C83829B@StevePC> Message-ID: <03511FE329E54410AB0E98A49306651B@Scorpio13> Darn right. Being discriminated against is always psychologically damaging. Look, Steve, the idea here is to show Target that it is wrong to discriminate against blind people. Some greedy corporations don't understand anything but money, so the legislature of California decided to impose a specific cost per claim on them so that they would learn this lesson the hard way. If corporations only had to payt ten cents every time they discriminated against somebody, they might figure that it was easier just to go right on discriminating. At $4,000 a pop--which isn't much money at all when you're a company like Target--maybe, just maybe, they'll think twice about it. Chris -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 9:27 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target I'm quite certain there was psychological damage as well, right??? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dennis Clark" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 9:15 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > They were damaged in that they were not able to place orders on Targets > website using screen readers. As a result you would have to make > purchases > on the Target website using sighted assistance, likely paid assistance, or > you would have to go to a Target store. If retailers like Target do not > wish to make their websites available to all people, all they need to do > is > take the website down, and we can all go to the store in person to make > our > purchases. > All the best, > Dennis > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Steve P. Deeley" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 1:31 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > >> This is ridiculous! How were these people damaged? >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Mehgan Sidhu" >> To: >> Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 3:20 PM >> Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target >> >> >>> To answer the recent questions posted about the Target case, the final >>> settlement hearing took place on March 9th. I understand from our >>> counsel in California, Larry Paradis of DRA and Josh Konecky, that there >>> were no objectors and the Judge was pleased with the resolution of the >>> case. The settlement is not fully "final" until the time for any >>> appeals has run - which is about 30 days. Given there were no >>> objectors, >>> it is highly unlikely that any appeals will be filed. The judge has not >>> yet made a ruling on attorneys fees, but that will not hold up >>> enforcement of the settlement. >>> >>> >>> >>> As for disbursements, assuming there are no appeals, the claims >>> administer has 45 days from the final approval date to disburse funds to >>> claimants. I do not know the final tally of approved claimants, though I >>> think there were several hundred. I will pass that information along >>> when I have it. >>> >>> >>> >>> We will now be working on enforcing the settlement commitments that >>> Target made with respect to the accessibility of the website. >>> >>> >>> Mehgan Sidhu >>> Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP >>> 120 East Baltimore Street, Suite 1700 >>> Baltimore, Maryland 21202 >>> 410-962-1030 x1324 >>> 410-385-0869 (fax) >>> ms at browngold.com >>> www.browngold.com >>> >>> Confidentiality Notice >>> >>> This e-mail may contain confidential information that may also be >>> legally >>> privileged and that is intended only for the use of the addressee(s) >>> named above. If you are not the intended recipient or an authorized >>> agent of the recipient, please be advised that any dissemination or >>> copying of this e-mail, or taking of any action in reliance on the >>> information contained herein, is strictly prohibited. If you have >>> received this e-mail in error, please notify me immediately by use of >>> the >>> reply button, and then delete the e-mail from your system. Thank you! >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in sightbb.com >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- >> >> >> >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release Date: >> 03/13/09 >> 05:59:00 >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dennisgclark%40sbc global.net > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in sightbb.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release Date: 03/13/09 05:59:00 _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3936 (20090313) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3936 (20090313) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From joramsey at cox.net Sat Mar 14 22:10:03 2009 From: joramsey at cox.net (John ) Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 18:10:03 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Multiple LSAT Scores In-Reply-To: <20090314215724.IUPS15875.fed1rmmtai110.cox.net@fed1rmimpi01.cox.net> Message-ID: <4F79E4EE98A44E7384EC96CA1D9C82BB@noneeb869fea9a> It has been several years since I had the displeasure of taking the LSAT, but something I have always pondered about is this fictional belief that the LSAT score is an accurate predictor of how a student will do in his first year of law school. I personally believe that it is not a predictor of anything, much less, how a person will perform in law school. I am sure that there a thousand studies supporting and refuting this claim. I just find it interesting. Take care, John John A. Ramsey Jr., Esq. Gainesville, FL 32609 Phone: (352) 505-6642 -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Angie Matney Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 5:17 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: [blindlaw] Multiple LSAT Scores Here's what UVA's web site says: What is your policy on multiple LSAT scores? The ABA requires law schools to report LSAT information using an admitted students highest score, so that is the score to which we give the most weight. We evaluate all information submitted as part of the application for admission, however, including all scores earned on the LSAT. Studies by the Law School Admission Council suggest that in most cases the average score is the most accurate predictor of academic performance in the first year of law school, so we encourage applicants with a significant difference in LSAT scores to include with their application any information that may be relevant to the interpretation of test results, such as illness, testing conditions, or other circumstances that may have affected LSAT performance. _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joramsey%40cox.net From b75205 at gmail.com Sat Mar 14 22:14:38 2009 From: b75205 at gmail.com (James Pepper) Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 17:14:38 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Multiple LSAT Scores In-Reply-To: <49bc25d7.4403be0a.6ba8.0730SMTPIN_ADDED@mx.google.com> References: <49bc25d7.4403be0a.6ba8.0730SMTPIN_ADDED@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Problem here is that the school cannot ask the applicant if they are disabled. Some testing agencies reveal what type of accessibility device is used to take a standardized test. I have seen this in forms for a local college. They know who is disabled or not without asking the student about their disability. This is for incoming freshman and not the LSAC. James From DFrye at nfb.org Sat Mar 14 22:11:48 2009 From: DFrye at nfb.org (Frye, Dan) Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 18:11:48 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target In-Reply-To: <90478605097E4FFFBD705620CC057167@StevePC> Message-ID: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6B839AD9@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local> List Colleagues: I suggest we stop engaging this gentleman as though his responses deserve a serious or thoughtful reply. Our good faith efforts to treat his comments with respect are only met with what is clearly a political commentary that he wants to express. While he is entitled to have whatever view of the world and civil rights that he wishes, I hardly think that his view warrants exhaustive coverage on this list that is designed to discuss legitimate matters of law, practice as blind lawyers, and the like. Responding to him only gives him repeated opportunities to articulate this hostile world view. He would be better suited to share his perspective on civil rights with a bunch of people who subscribe to his feelings, in a political forum designed for such a purpose. Dan Frye -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 4:52 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target I will guarantee most individuals in our society don't agree with the way damages are calculated. You are a lawyer, so that sort of argument from you is expected, Especially telling others who don't agree with your position or, the position of most lawyers,concerning the calculation of damages in these civil rights cases. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rod Alcidonis" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 2:23 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target If damages are not awarded as a remedy at law, the next option would be to grant some equitable relief like an injunction. No court will ask Target to shut down its website until it make it accessible to the blind. This would be considered economic waste and against the public interest if millions of people are forced to stop shopping on line. In the law's eyes, what the plaintiffs really want is for their civil rights not to be violated. If one accept to go ahead and violate them, the least that the law can afford to those plaintiffs is money. The court knows that money is not primarily what the plaintiffs are seeking, but there must be a way for the defendant to answer to society for its wrong doing. Here, it was by making the defendant compensate the plaintiffs for the harm that it caused, I.E, by making the defendant pay for violating the plaintiffs' civil rights. Keep saying the following outloud you will get it: "the damages was for the violation of the plaintiffs' civil rights, not for any physical pain or frustration in not using the Target website." For further edification of your understanding: Once the court can calculate a dollar amount (hence the amount of the damages award), equitable relief is not necessary and such prayers will not be entertained in a court of equity. Here, the court was able to come up with a dollar amount for the violation of the plaintiffs' civil rights. Steve, unless you accept to place your emotions aside and exercise a little willingness to learn, even for one day, your reactions will continue to come across as being very uninformed. I don't think you want that. That's why some of us are trying to help you here while most have resolved to ignoring your comments. If you continue to persist along the same line in light of the effort that's been made to help you out, I will have to conclude in a very respectable way that you are just an ignorant man. I am sorry. Take care. Rod Alcidonis Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009. Roger Williams University School of Law 10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 Bristol, RI 02809 Cell: 718-704-4651 Home: 401-824-8685 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. Deeley" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 12:41 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target I understand that, however, I just do not agree with the entire concept of awarding damages in this sort of case. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rod Alcidonis" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 9:27 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target Steve: The effort here was to try to help your understanding and educate your logic, not to justify the existence of the legal system. I am afraid that you are still not willing to accept that "damage" as used in the law is a term of art. Meaning, It has a specific legal definition different from normal use. It is different when you say that "my bicycle was damaged, for example. It is a legal recognition that certain harms should be compensated. In this case, the plaintiffs are being paid not for the fact that they were physically damage in the normal use of the term, but for violations of their civil rights. See Denis' e-mail for what the harm was. In the bicycle example, if someone were to break your bicycle, you can receive "damages" as the cost of repair, or replacement of the bicycle. By the way, you are also entitled to enforce your civil rights if you so choose and receive damages. Not every violations entitle someone to such remedy. When a person cannot get damages under the law, that person has the option of seeking equitable relief in the form of an injunction or restraining order against the defendant. In this case damages was available as a remedy so the plaintiffs are getting money. They are getting paid because their civil rights were violated. I hope this further helps inform your comments. Take care. Rod Alcidonis Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009. Roger Williams University School of Law 10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 Bristol, RI 02809 Cell: 718-704-4651 Home: 401-824-8685 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. Deeley" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 9:22 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target That is a lawyer talking who makes his living in rediculous situations like this one. Again, you show me how an individual was damaged and out $4,000.00. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott C. LaBarre" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 5:38 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target Violation of civil rights has long been recognized as a form of compensible legal damage as well it should be. Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. LaBarre Law Offices P.C. 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 Denver, Colorado 80222 303 504-5979 (voice) 303 757-3640 (fax) slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) www.labarrelaw.com (website) CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. Deeley" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 2:31 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > This is ridiculous! How were these people damaged? > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mehgan Sidhu" > To: > Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 3:20 PM > Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > >> To answer the recent questions posted about the Target case, the final >> settlement hearing took place on March 9th. I understand from our >> counsel in California, Larry Paradis of DRA and Josh Konecky, that there >> were no objectors and the Judge was pleased with the resolution of the >> case. The settlement is not fully "final" until the time for any >> appeals has run - which is about 30 days. Given there were no objectors, >> it is highly unlikely that any appeals will be filed. The judge has not >> yet made a ruling on attorneys fees, but that will not hold up >> enforcement of the settlement. >> >> >> >> As for disbursements, assuming there are no appeals, the claims >> administer has 45 days from the final approval date to disburse funds to >> claimants. I do not know the final tally of approved claimants, though I >> think there were several hundred. I will pass that information along >> when I have it. >> >> >> >> We will now be working on enforcing the settlement commitments that >> Target made with respect to the accessibility of the website. >> >> >> Mehgan Sidhu >> Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP >> 120 East Baltimore Street, Suite 1700 >> Baltimore, Maryland 21202 >> 410-962-1030 x1324 >> 410-385-0869 (fax) >> ms at browngold.com >> www.browngold.com >> >> Confidentiality Notice >> >> This e-mail may contain confidential information that may also be legally >> privileged and that is intended only for the use of the addressee(s) >> named above. If you are not the intended recipient or an authorized >> agent of the recipient, please be advised that any dissemination or >> copying of this e-mail, or taking of any action in reliance on the >> information contained herein, is strictly prohibited. If you have >> received this e-mail in error, please notify me immediately by use of the >> reply button, and then delete the e-mail from your system. Thank you! >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release Date: 03/13/09 > 05:59:00 > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/slabarre%40labarrelaw.com > _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release Date: 03/13/09 05:59:00 _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/2001 - Release Date: 03/14/09 06:54:00 _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/2001 - Release Date: 03/14/09 06:54:00 _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dfrye%40nfb.org From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Sun Mar 15 00:14:14 2009 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 17:14:14 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target In-Reply-To: <03B8D4FE14404DA090F70CC5A0D9949B@StevePC> References: <549FC55C53E54BA5814FA71C231CE71F@StevePC> <03B8D4FE14404DA090F70CC5A0D9949B@StevePC> Message-ID: <572950BB1C7A4653B86DA42CA429C608@spike> part of the issue here is that damages awarded to punish businesses for this type of inappropriate behavior. it is used as a deterrent to insure that businesses are made to follow the laws and take civil rights issues seriously. It is the same principle that courts use for assessing fines for drunk driving and other offenses. In order to bring about change you need to affect an individual or a business in a way that is effective and awarding damages is one of the best ways possible. It has become a sound principal of law and has been upheld in many court tests both in civil and criminal cases. Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal 1237 P Street Fresno ca 93721 559-266-9237 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. Deeley" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 6:25 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target >I want someone to show me how this results in damages of this magnitude. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Rod Alcidonis" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 12:24 AM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > >> Steve: >> >> If you are not an attorney or a law student, we may be arguing and >> understanding different concepts here. "Damage" is a legal concept, and >> if >> not used in that sense can certainly lead to ridiculous understanding. A >> damage award allows a plaintiff to be compensated for the harm caused by >> the >> defendant. Damages take various forms: physical harm, emotional harm, >> loss >> wages, etc. Here as Scott said, the legislature has decided to make such >> civil rights violations compensable as damages. It is a legal recognition >> that a harm was caused, and it was caused to the plaintiff. The harm here >> was violations of federal and State civil rights. >> I hope that helps. >> >> Rod Alcidonis >> Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009. >> Roger Williams University School of Law >> 10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 >> Bristol, RI 02809 >> Cell: 718-704-4651 >> Home: 401-824-8685 >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Steve P. Deeley" >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 9:20 PM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target >> >> >>> Well, sign me up. There are dozens of Web sites a year that I can't >>> access. This is just ridiculous. This is, exactly, what raises the cost >>> of doing business for companies. I'm not condoning Target's continuing >>> unwillingness to deal with their inaccessible >>> web site, however, there is no way that an individual is damaged to the >>> tune of $4,000.00. >>> Steve >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Mehgan Sidhu" >>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>> Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 5:02 PM >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target >>> >>> >>>> Steve, >>>> >>>> In addition to the ADA claim, the lawsuit was brought under >>>> California's >>>> Unruh Act and Disabled Person's Act, both of which provide for minimum >>>> statutory damages ($4,000 and $1,000 per violation, respectively). >>>> Under >>>> the agreement, members of the California class who are legally blind, >>>> had >>>> attempted to use Target.com between February 7, 2003 and December 9, >>>> 2008, and experienced significant barriers were eligible for damages of >>>> up to $3,500 per violation for a maximum of 2 violations. >>>> >>>> A copy of the settlement is available at the following site: >>>> http://www.nfbtargetlawsuit.com/final_settlement.html >>>> >>>> Mehgan Sidhu >>>> Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP >>>> 120 East Baltimore Street, Suite 1700 >>>> Baltimore, Maryland 21202 >>>> 410-962-1030 x1324 >>>> 410-385-0869 (fax) >>>> ms at browngold.com >>>> www.browngold.com >>>> >>>> Confidentiality Notice >>>> >>>> This e-mail may contain confidential information that may also be >>>> legally >>>> privileged and that is intended only for the use of the addressee(s) >>>> named above. If you are not the intended recipient or an authorized >>>> agent of the recipient, please be advised that any dissemination or >>>> copying of this e-mail, or taking of any action in reliance on the >>>> information contained herein, is strictly prohibited. If you have >>>> received this e-mail in error, please notify me immediately by use of >>>> the >>>> reply button, and then delete the e-mail from your system. Thank you! >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>> On >>>> Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley >>>> Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 4:31 PM >>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target >>>> >>>> This is ridiculous! How were these people damaged? >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Mehgan Sidhu" >>>> To: >>>> Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 3:20 PM >>>> Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target >>>> >>>> >>>>> To answer the recent questions posted about the Target case, the final >>>>> settlement hearing took place on March 9th. I understand from our >>>>> counsel >>>>> in California, Larry Paradis of DRA and Josh Konecky, that there were >>>>> no >>>>> objectors and the Judge was pleased with the resolution of the case. >>>>> The >>>>> settlement is not fully "final" until the time for any appeals has >>>>> run - >>>>> which is about 30 days. Given there were no objectors, it is highly >>>>> unlikely that any appeals will be filed. The judge has not yet made a >>>>> ruling on attorneys fees, but that will not hold up enforcement of the >>>>> settlement. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> As for disbursements, assuming there are no appeals, the claims >>>>> administer >>>>> has 45 days from the final approval date to disburse funds to >>>>> claimants. >>>>> I do not know the final tally of approved claimants, though I think >>>>> there >>>>> were several hundred. I will pass that information along when I have >>>>> it. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> We will now be working on enforcing the settlement commitments that >>>>> Target >>>>> made with respect to the accessibility of the website. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Mehgan Sidhu >>>>> Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP >>>>> 120 East Baltimore Street, Suite 1700 >>>>> Baltimore, Maryland 21202 >>>>> 410-962-1030 x1324 >>>>> 410-385-0869 (fax) >>>>> ms at browngold.com >>>>> www.browngold.com >>>>> >>>>> Confidentiality Notice >>>>> >>>>> This e-mail may contain confidential information that may also be >>>>> legally >>>>> privileged and that is intended only for the use of the addressee(s) >>>>> named >>>>> above. If you are not the intended recipient or an authorized agent >>>>> of >>>>> the recipient, please be advised that any dissemination or copying of >>>>> this >>>>> e-mail, or taking of any action in reliance on the information >>>>> contained >>>>> herein, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in >>>>> error, please notify me immediately by use of the reply button, and >>>>> then >>>>> delete the e-mail from your system. Thank you! >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> blindlaw: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com >>>> >>>> >>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>>> Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release Date: >>>> 03/13/09 >>>> 05:59:00 >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ms%40browngold.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com >>> >>> >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> >>> >>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>> Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release Date: >>> 03/13/09 >>> 05:59:00 >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail.com >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release Date: 03/13/09 > 05:59:00 > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net From timandvickie at hotmail.com Sun Mar 15 01:43:33 2009 From: timandvickie at hotmail.com (Tim Shaw) Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 01:43:33 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target In-Reply-To: <572950BB1C7A4653B86DA42CA429C608@spike> References: <549FC55C53E54BA5814FA71C231CE71F@StevePC> <03B8D4FE14404DA090F70CC5A0D9949B@StevePC> <572950BB1C7A4653B86DA42CA429C608@spike> Message-ID: yes, they could go an pass a limit that is way to low like they have in Texas for medical malpractice in Texas. They have set such a hard maximum for such medical cases in Texas that it is had to find a lawyer here anymore that will do malpractice cases anymore because the amount received wont even cover the legal fees > From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net > To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org > Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 17:14:14 -0700 > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > part of the issue here is that damages awarded to punish businesses for this > type of inappropriate behavior. it is used as a deterrent to insure that > businesses are made to follow the laws and take civil rights issues > seriously. It is the same principle that courts use for assessing fines for > drunk driving and other offenses. In order to bring about change you need to > affect an individual or a business in a way that is effective and awarding > damages is one of the best ways possible. It has become a sound principal of > law and has been upheld in many court tests both in civil and criminal > cases. > Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal > 1237 P Street > Fresno ca 93721 > 559-266-9237 > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Steve P. Deeley" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 6:25 AM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > > >I want someone to show me how this results in damages of this magnitude. > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Rod Alcidonis" > > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > > Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 12:24 AM > > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > > > > >> Steve: > >> > >> If you are not an attorney or a law student, we may be arguing and > >> understanding different concepts here. "Damage" is a legal concept, and > >> if > >> not used in that sense can certainly lead to ridiculous understanding. A > >> damage award allows a plaintiff to be compensated for the harm caused by > >> the > >> defendant. Damages take various forms: physical harm, emotional harm, > >> loss > >> wages, etc. Here as Scott said, the legislature has decided to make such > >> civil rights violations compensable as damages. It is a legal recognition > >> that a harm was caused, and it was caused to the plaintiff. The harm here > >> was violations of federal and State civil rights. > >> I hope that helps. > >> > >> Rod Alcidonis > >> Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009. > >> Roger Williams University School of Law > >> 10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 > >> Bristol, RI 02809 > >> Cell: 718-704-4651 > >> Home: 401-824-8685 > >> > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "Steve P. Deeley" > >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > >> Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 9:20 PM > >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > >> > >> > >>> Well, sign me up. There are dozens of Web sites a year that I can't > >>> access. This is just ridiculous. This is, exactly, what raises the cost > >>> of doing business for companies. I'm not condoning Target's continuing > >>> unwillingness to deal with their inaccessible > >>> web site, however, there is no way that an individual is damaged to the > >>> tune of $4,000.00. > >>> Steve > >>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>> From: "Mehgan Sidhu" > >>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > >>> Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 5:02 PM > >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > >>> > >>> > >>>> Steve, > >>>> > >>>> In addition to the ADA claim, the lawsuit was brought under > >>>> California's > >>>> Unruh Act and Disabled Person's Act, both of which provide for minimum > >>>> statutory damages ($4,000 and $1,000 per violation, respectively). > >>>> Under > >>>> the agreement, members of the California class who are legally blind, > >>>> had > >>>> attempted to use Target.com between February 7, 2003 and December 9, > >>>> 2008, and experienced significant barriers were eligible for damages of > >>>> up to $3,500 per violation for a maximum of 2 violations. > >>>> > >>>> A copy of the settlement is available at the following site: > >>>> http://www.nfbtargetlawsuit.com/final_settlement.html > >>>> > >>>> Mehgan Sidhu > >>>> Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP > >>>> 120 East Baltimore Street, Suite 1700 > >>>> Baltimore, Maryland 21202 > >>>> 410-962-1030 x1324 > >>>> 410-385-0869 (fax) > >>>> ms at browngold.com > >>>> www.browngold.com > >>>> > >>>> Confidentiality Notice > >>>> > >>>> This e-mail may contain confidential information that may also be > >>>> legally > >>>> privileged and that is intended only for the use of the addressee(s) > >>>> named above. If you are not the intended recipient or an authorized > >>>> agent of the recipient, please be advised that any dissemination or > >>>> copying of this e-mail, or taking of any action in reliance on the > >>>> information contained herein, is strictly prohibited. If you have > >>>> received this e-mail in error, please notify me immediately by use of > >>>> the > >>>> reply button, and then delete the e-mail from your system. Thank you! > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] > >>>> On > >>>> Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley > >>>> Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 4:31 PM > >>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > >>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > >>>> > >>>> This is ridiculous! How were these people damaged? > >>>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>>> From: "Mehgan Sidhu" > >>>> To: > >>>> Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 3:20 PM > >>>> Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>> To answer the recent questions posted about the Target case, the final > >>>>> settlement hearing took place on March 9th. I understand from our > >>>>> counsel > >>>>> in California, Larry Paradis of DRA and Josh Konecky, that there were > >>>>> no > >>>>> objectors and the Judge was pleased with the resolution of the case. > >>>>> The > >>>>> settlement is not fully "final" until the time for any appeals has > >>>>> run - > >>>>> which is about 30 days. Given there were no objectors, it is highly > >>>>> unlikely that any appeals will be filed. The judge has not yet made a > >>>>> ruling on attorneys fees, but that will not hold up enforcement of the > >>>>> settlement. > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> As for disbursements, assuming there are no appeals, the claims > >>>>> administer > >>>>> has 45 days from the final approval date to disburse funds to > >>>>> claimants. > >>>>> I do not know the final tally of approved claimants, though I think > >>>>> there > >>>>> were several hundred. I will pass that information along when I have > >>>>> it. > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> We will now be working on enforcing the settlement commitments that > >>>>> Target > >>>>> made with respect to the accessibility of the website. > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> Mehgan Sidhu > >>>>> Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP > >>>>> 120 East Baltimore Street, Suite 1700 > >>>>> Baltimore, Maryland 21202 > >>>>> 410-962-1030 x1324 > >>>>> 410-385-0869 (fax) > >>>>> ms at browngold.com > >>>>> www.browngold.com > >>>>> > >>>>> Confidentiality Notice > >>>>> > >>>>> This e-mail may contain confidential information that may also be > >>>>> legally > >>>>> privileged and that is intended only for the use of the addressee(s) > >>>>> named > >>>>> above. If you are not the intended recipient or an authorized agent > >>>>> of > >>>>> the recipient, please be advised that any dissemination or copying of > >>>>> this > >>>>> e-mail, or taking of any action in reliance on the information > >>>>> contained > >>>>> herein, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in > >>>>> error, please notify me immediately by use of the reply button, and > >>>>> then > >>>>> delete the e-mail from your system. Thank you! > >>>>> > >>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>> blindlaw mailing list > >>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>>>> blindlaw: > >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> No virus found in this incoming message. > >>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > >>>> Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release Date: > >>>> 03/13/09 > >>>> 05:59:00 > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> blindlaw mailing list > >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>>> blindlaw: > >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ms%40browngold.com > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> blindlaw mailing list > >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>>> blindlaw: > >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com > >>> > >>> > >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> No virus found in this incoming message. > >>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > >>> Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release Date: > >>> 03/13/09 > >>> 05:59:00 > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> blindlaw mailing list > >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>> blindlaw: > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail.com > >>> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> blindlaw mailing list > >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> blindlaw: > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > > Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release Date: 03/13/09 > > 05:59:00 > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > blindlaw mailing list > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/timandvickie%40hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail® is up to 70% faster. Now good news travels really fast. http://windowslive.com/online/hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_70faster_032009 From slabarre at labarrelaw.com Sun Mar 15 02:19:25 2009 From: slabarre at labarrelaw.com (Scott C. LaBarre) Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 20:19:25 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target References: Message-ID: <7DF12D30A7294ADEAA75754CE0751C02@labarre> The standards used are those of WCAG and Sec. 508. I did not work directly on Target and cannot tell you exactly the access barriers. I can tell you that with respect to filing applications to law schools through LSAC on their website, it is impossible to fill those applications out independently using screen reading softaware. Let me also assure list members that we don't simply jump on a website, encounter difficulty, and then sue them the next day. A lawsuit is the last resort when the entity is not willing to deal with us otherwise. Just because we are a small minority does not mean that our right to the mainstream of society must always be subservient to the majority's unwillingness to consider us due to our small numbers. Unless someone has a new point to be made on this topic, I respectfully suggest that we move onto different discussions. Let's also agree to disagree on certain points. Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. LaBarre Law Offices P.C. 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 Denver, Colorado 80222 303 504-5979 (voice) 303 757-3640 (fax) slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) www.labarrelaw.com (website) CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Orozco" To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 8:52 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target What troubles me is that my question of accessibility standards has not been answered on the other case against the LSAC. The same question is applicable here. What standard was used to conclude that the web site was not accessible? I do not claim to be a genius at manipulating technology to serve my needs, but I did not have to try hard at all to make Target give me what I needed between 2005 and 2008. So is the problem the web site layout, or is it our own technology training? Rather than chase every entity with features a few people deem inaccessible, would it not be prudent to take our standards, whatever those may be, to the classroom, to the software developers, the relevant associations raising the performance standards of its students and members? This method of engineering change gives us the perception of a watchdog group. If this is what we have become, and given the small margin of the population we represent, I would rather trigger change at the source rather than at the output. Joe Orozco "A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the crowd."--Max Lucado -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 9:24 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target That should not result in you receiving damages of almost $4,000.00. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 4:35 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target As an individual I am insulted and damaged each time I am discriminated by a business not accommodating my ability to access their products and services, especially on the Internet when I have made sure that I have accommodated myself with the most up-to-date software to mitigate my needs as a blind person. I should not have to rely on sighted assistance to use a product or do without because the greedy corporations has chosen the most expedient road to sell their products. I am also insulted that you are posting this question. I have in my life time been sold out by too many blind people that thought they knew what I needed and I hope more companies will have to pay damages in these types of cases. Perhaps they will then learn how to meet the needs of all their customers. Fortunately here in California we have some laws with some teeth in them that are enforceable--although these teeth still need a good sharpening. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. Deeley" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 6:22 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target That is a lawyer talking who makes his living in rediculous situations like this one. Again, you show me how an individual was damaged and out $4,000.00. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott C. LaBarre" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 5:38 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target Violation of civil rights has long been recognized as a form of compensible legal damage as well it should be. Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. LaBarre Law Offices P.C. 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 Denver, Colorado 80222 303 504-5979 (voice) 303 757-3640 (fax) slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) www.labarrelaw.com (website) CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. Deeley" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 2:31 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > This is ridiculous! How were these people damaged? > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mehgan Sidhu" > To: > Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 3:20 PM > Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > >> To answer the recent questions posted about the Target case, the final >> settlement hearing took place on March 9th. I understand from our >> counsel in California, Larry Paradis of DRA and Josh Konecky, that there >> were no objectors and the Judge was pleased with the resolution of the >> case. The settlement is not fully "final" until the time for any >> appeals has run - which is about 30 days. Given there were no objectors, >> it is highly unlikely that any appeals will be filed. The judge has not >> yet made a ruling on attorneys fees, but that will not hold up >> enforcement of the settlement. >> >> >> >> As for disbursements, assuming there are no appeals, the claims >> administer has 45 days from the final approval date to disburse funds to >> claimants. I do not know the final tally of approved claimants, though I >> think there were several hundred. I will pass that information along >> when I have it. >> >> >> >> We will now be working on enforcing the settlement commitments that >> Target made with respect to the accessibility of the website. >> >> >> Mehgan Sidhu >> Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP >> 120 East Baltimore Street, Suite 1700 >> Baltimore, Maryland 21202 >> 410-962-1030 x1324 >> 410-385-0869 (fax) >> ms at browngold.com >> www.browngold.com >> >> Confidentiality Notice >> >> This e-mail may contain confidential information that may also be legally >> privileged and that is intended only for the use of the addressee(s) >> named above. If you are not the intended recipient or an authorized >> agent of the recipient, please be advised that any dissemination or >> copying of this e-mail, or taking of any action in reliance on the >> information contained herein, is strictly prohibited. If you have >> received this e-mail in error, please notify me immediately by use of the >> reply button, and then delete the e-mail from your system. Thank you! >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep .deeley%40insightbb.com > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release Date: 03/13/09 > 05:59:00 > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/slabar re%40labarrelaw.com > _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep .deeley%40insightbb.com ---------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release Date: 03/13/09 05:59:00 _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugm an%40sbcglobal.net _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep .deeley%40insightbb.com ---------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release Date: 03/13/09 05:59:00 _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jsoroz co%40gmail.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3936 (20090313) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3936 (20090313) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/slabarre%40labarrelaw.com From slabarre at labarrelaw.com Sun Mar 15 02:21:12 2009 From: slabarre at labarrelaw.com (Scott C. LaBarre) Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 20:21:12 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target References: <549FC55C53E54BA5814FA71C231CE71F@StevePC><001301c9a442$63a1e180$6401a8c0@server> <588EC588BDA14F18B7560ACF4C83829B@StevePC> Message-ID: No, in fact. The law does not generally recognize compensatory damages in this type of claim. Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. LaBarre Law Offices P.C. 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 Denver, Colorado 80222 303 504-5979 (voice) 303 757-3640 (fax) slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) www.labarrelaw.com (website) CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. Deeley" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 7:26 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > I'm quite certain there was psychological damage as well, right??? > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Dennis Clark" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 9:15 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > >> They were damaged in that they were not able to place orders on Targets >> website using screen readers. As a result you would have to make >> purchases >> on the Target website using sighted assistance, likely paid assistance, >> or >> you would have to go to a Target store. If retailers like Target do not >> wish to make their websites available to all people, all they need to do >> is >> take the website down, and we can all go to the store in person to make >> our >> purchases. >> All the best, >> Dennis >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Steve P. Deeley" >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 1:31 PM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target >> >> >>> This is ridiculous! How were these people damaged? >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Mehgan Sidhu" >>> To: >>> Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 3:20 PM >>> Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target >>> >>> >>>> To answer the recent questions posted about the Target case, the final >>>> settlement hearing took place on March 9th. I understand from our >>>> counsel in California, Larry Paradis of DRA and Josh Konecky, that >>>> there >>>> were no objectors and the Judge was pleased with the resolution of the >>>> case. The settlement is not fully "final" until the time for any >>>> appeals has run - which is about 30 days. Given there were no >>>> objectors, >>>> it is highly unlikely that any appeals will be filed. The judge has >>>> not >>>> yet made a ruling on attorneys fees, but that will not hold up >>>> enforcement of the settlement. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> As for disbursements, assuming there are no appeals, the claims >>>> administer has 45 days from the final approval date to disburse funds >>>> to >>>> claimants. I do not know the final tally of approved claimants, though >>>> I >>>> think there were several hundred. I will pass that information along >>>> when I have it. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> We will now be working on enforcing the settlement commitments that >>>> Target made with respect to the accessibility of the website. >>>> >>>> >>>> Mehgan Sidhu >>>> Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP >>>> 120 East Baltimore Street, Suite 1700 >>>> Baltimore, Maryland 21202 >>>> 410-962-1030 x1324 >>>> 410-385-0869 (fax) >>>> ms at browngold.com >>>> www.browngold.com >>>> >>>> Confidentiality Notice >>>> >>>> This e-mail may contain confidential information that may also be >>>> legally >>>> privileged and that is intended only for the use of the addressee(s) >>>> named above. If you are not the intended recipient or an authorized >>>> agent of the recipient, please be advised that any dissemination or >>>> copying of this e-mail, or taking of any action in reliance on the >>>> information contained herein, is strictly prohibited. If you have >>>> received this e-mail in error, please notify me immediately by use of >>>> the >>>> reply button, and then delete the e-mail from your system. Thank you! >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com >>> >>> >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> >>> >>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>> Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release Date: >>> 03/13/09 >>> 05:59:00 >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dennisgclark%40sbcglobal.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release Date: 03/13/09 > 05:59:00 > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/slabarre%40labarrelaw.com > From cjmc404 at gmail.com Sun Mar 15 02:57:29 2009 From: cjmc404 at gmail.com (cory McMahon) Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 21:57:29 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Issues with RSB Message-ID: <65DC2ACEE6424AE2A0C44193D0055127@DDH3MGF1> I am not a member of NFB (I would like to become one), but am wondering if someone might have a good recommendation of an attorney located in St. Louis. I was sent by Nancy Goebel of RSB to who I thought was a qualified individual (Denise Rexroat) to undergo a thorough neuropsychological evaluation. Nancy told me that she was qualified, and that I would be would be working with both of them. However, I learned later that Denise Rexroat was unqualified to administer psychological evaluations and that the only qualification she has is a Master's In Education. Please also be advised that I was informed by Nancy Goebel, Senior VRC that both Dr. Paul Rexroat, PHD. and Denise Rexroat would be conducting the evaluation, however, I learned upon arrival for the evaluation that Dr. Paul Rexroat, PHD. was out-of-town on business. It is also important to note that although a neuropsychological evaluation was paid for, it was not administered. Based upon the results of this evaluation, Nancy believes I'm not employable. In addition, I hired an attorney to represent me at a Fair Hearing that was to be held on 2/17/09. Due to a hospitalization, I was unable to be there. I would like a good, competent attorney to represent me. If anyone has any questions, please contact me at: (314) 603-7949. Thanks, Cory A fair Hearing was set-up to take place on 1/27/09, however, due to poor weather, it was canceled at the request of RSB administrative officials. A hearing was then re-scheduled to take place on 2/17/09. Due to a hospitalization, I was unable to attend. An attourney was sent on my behalf, however. Because of my not being able to attend, RSB officials elected not to have the Fair Hearing. Instead, they elected to meet for an hour andahalf with my attourney, although he never met with me to let me know what it was that they discussed. Please read the information below, and let me know if one of you feel as though you would be able to assist in the upcoming Fair Hearing, whenever it is scheduled to take place: I am not a member of NFB (I would like to become one), but am wondering if someone might have a good recommendation of an attorney located in St. Louis. I was sent by Nancy Goebel of RSB to who I thought was a qualified individual (Denise Rexroat) to undergo a thorough neuropsychological evaluation. Nancy told me that she was qualified, and that I would be would be working with both of them. However, I learned later that Denise Rexroat was unqualified to administer psychological evaluations and that the only qualification she has is a Master's In Education. Please also be advised that I was informed by Nancy Goebel, Senior VRC that both Dr. Paul Rexroat, PHD. and Denise Rexroat would be conducting the evaluation, however, I learned upon arrival for the evaluation that Dr. Paul Rexroat, PHD. was out-of-town on business. It is also important to note that although a neuropsychological evaluation was paid for, it was not administered. Based upon the results of this evaluation, Nancy believes I'm not employable. In addition, I hired an attorney to represent me at a Fair Hearing that was to be held on 2/17/09. Due to a hospitalization, I was unable to be there. I would like a good, competent attorney to represent me. If anyone has any questions, please contact me at: (314) 603-7949. Thanks, Cory Cory McMahon Case Documentation and Evidence for Fair Hearing February 17, 2009 Prior to delving into any of the issues that I will be presenting during this fair hearing, I feel that I need to make a few brief points. First, and foremost, no blame should be placed on Michael Merrick, Assistant Deputy Director at Rehabilitation Services for the Blind, (RSB). He has only been the Assistant Deputy Director for a very short time. All issues center around the way I have been treated by Nancy Goebel, Senior VR Counselor at RSB; Naomi Soule, District Supervisor at RSB; and Mark Laird, Deputy Director of RSB. All communications with Mike have been positive, timely, helpful, and honest. It is unfortunate for Mike that the dirty work (this fair hearing) has been delegated to him by Mark Laird. Now I will address the issues and concerns I have regarding services with Rehabilitation Services for the Blind. NEUROPSYCHOLOGICAL EVALUATION: On July 18, 2008 I agreed to see Dr. Paul Rexroat, Ph.D. For a neuropsychological evaluation as requested by Nancy. I was informed that I would be seeing Dr. Paul Rexroat and his wife, Denise Rexroat who is equally as qualified according to Nancy. On August 8, 2008, I met with Denise Rexroat only, as Dr. Paul Rexroat was out-of-town. I thought it odd that I completed a neuropsychological/psychological evaluation administered by Denise Rexroat, an Administrative Assistant/Secretary. It is my understanding that the WAIS III and the MMPI in particular must be administered by a qualified individual, which Denise obviously is not. In an effort to gather the facts, I requested in writing on August 22, 2008 from Nancy, a copy of the written evaluation and all supporting documentation that she received from Dr. Paul Rexroat. My written request was ignored. Therefore, on September 2, 2008 I requested again in writing from Nancy a copy of all documentation pertaining to the evaluation that was completed on August 8, 2008. On September 3, 2008, I received a telephone call form Dr. Paul Rexroat, who informed me that he had been contact by Nancy Goebel and she had indicated to him that I requested a copy of the documentation form the psychological evaluation. Also, he informed me that: "It is the general rule, (and even I think the legal rule) that a copy of the information you are requesting is not customarily released to clients, as it is confidential in nature". I responded, acknowledging that I understood what he said. He went on to present me with a couple of options. 1.. "Although I will be out-of-town for a few weeks and booked for several weeks after that, I can set-up an appointment with you to go over the report, or 2.. The best thing to do would probably be to contact Nancy Goebel, as she is as equally as qualified as I am to interpret the report and go over it with you. Wouldn't that be the thing to do"? Frustrated, I let him know that I would contact her, which I did immediately after I hung up from talking with him. I inquired of Nancy as to why she contacted Dr. Paul Rexroat, especially since it wasn't him from whom I had requested the documentation. She reported to me that she met with her supervisors (Naomi and Mark), and that they "advised" her to: "Call Dr. Rexroat, advise him as to what Cory is requesting, and see what his thoughts are". I asked her when she" "met with her supervisor", as I was perplexed that it took her two weeks before she followed up on this request. She indicated: " met with them late Friday afternoon (8/29/2008. I asked: "Can we go over the report"? She informed me that "Dr. Rexroat is recommending that you and I set-up a meeting at which to go over the report". I calmly explained to Nancy that Dr. Rexroat instructed me to call her to go over the report, which, even after notification of this instruction, she appeared to still be unwilling to do so. Realizing that she was not going to go over (via phone) the report and/or any other documentation that may have resulted from the psychological evaluation, and also that her and I needed to amend my Individualized Plan of Employment (IPE), I agreed to meet with her (Nancy) on September 18, 2008 at 12:30 PM at her office. In the meantime, however, I contacted the Client Assistance Program (CAP), and received a call back form them on September 9, 2008, during which they began the short application process. I then received a call from Kathryn Koch, Advocacy Specialist and her supervisor, Pat Wheeler on September 16, 2008, during which I learned that they are the advocates that have been assigned to my case. After a discussion with these two advocates, we agreed that it would be advantageous for me to call Nancy and re-schedule our September 18, 2008 meeting, so that CAP had a sufficient amount of time with which to work to obtain my complete RSB case record, including documentation resulting from the psychological evaluation. I was advised to let Nancy know that I opened a CAP case, which I did. She appeared not to be upset at this point, however, that would quickly change days later. She let me know that she would wait for a form from them (CAP), and that the issue had become an administrative matter. Nancy then let me know that she was going to go talk with her supervisor, Naomi Soule. The next two conversations I had with Nancy worth noting were conversations that occurred on September 18, 2008 and September 19, 2008. I contacted her to inquire about items that were being shipped back from Lions World Services for the Blind, LWSB, since I elected not to return to this facility for training, and also to check on a cab trip scheduled for later on that afternoon for which RSB way paying. After discussing those two issues, she informed me that she had a discussion with Naomi Soule and that RSB would like to offer me the opportunity to have cab arrangements made and an appointment set-up for me to meet with Dr. Rexroat to go over the documentation pertaining to the psychological evaluation that his wife, Denise, conducted on August 8, 2008, in Nancy's words: "since he wrote the report. That way if you have any questions, you can have the opportunity to ask him directly". I let her know that I wanted to think about it and would get back with her. I called her back a couple of hours later, at which point I indicated to her that I would like to meet with him. She informed me that due to his schedule, I would be meeting with him on a Tuesday. She reported that he is out-of-town the week of 9/15, so she would need to wait until the week of 9/22 to contact him to inquire as to when he would be available to meet with me. She reported to me that as soon as she found out this information, she would get back in touch with me to advise me of the appointment date/time, as well as the time at which the cab will be picking me up from my apartment to take me to the appointment. Next, Nancy asked: "On another issue, what is the basis for your contacting CAP"? I stated: "I do not feel comfortable commenting on this matter". Her response: "So, in essence you're not going to tell me what the issues are"? My response: "No". She then stated: "Well, since you will not tell me what the issues are that caused you to open up a CAP case, and since we are not currently offering you services at this time, your case has been placed in "Services Interrupted" Status". I said: "OK", and then she reported: "I guess I don't need to stay in touch with you accept to let you know of your appointment with Dr. Rexroat". I said: "OK", and then the conversation was concluded. I met with Dr. Paul Rexroat on October 14, 2008 with Kathryn Koch, my CAP Advocacy Specialist present. Dr. Paul Rexroat reviewed the contents of the evaluation report. I inquired about recommendations and he indicated that he hadn't made any specific recommendations. I didn't believe him, as I have never completed an evaluation where there weren't any recommendations made, especially written reports. Further more, Nancy implied that there were recommendations. Dr. Paul Rexroat provided Kathryn a copy of the written evaluation. I questioned Dr. Paul Rexroat about the qualifications necessary for administering the WAIS III and the MMPI. He became defensive and informed me that a secretary can administer the MMPI. He obviously knew that I was on to him. Evidence: E-mail to Cory from Kathryn containing notes from meeting, dated October 14, 2008, 2:38 PM Dr. Paul Rexroat became concerned about the legalities of the entire situation, as he contacted me by telephone on October 14, 2008 in an effort to feed me a line and to get me off his back. He agreed to mail me a copy of his written evaluation and a two page letter that he had sent to Nancy on August 25, 2008. I believe that his intent was to silence me regarding the legal ramifications of the way he does business with clients and referral sources by giving in and giving me a copy of the report and follow-up letter. Evidence: Psychological Evaluation Report dated August 8, 2008 Evidence: Letter to Nancy from Dr. Paul Rexroat, dated August 25, 2008 Evidence: Copy of envelope containing the above documents with a postmark of October 15, 2008 Needless to say, I was quite shocked by the content of the letter. The recommendations are pretty serious and certainly considered to be drastic measures. It is repulsive to even think that Nancy would attempt to implement any of the suggestions for the following reasons: 1.. Dr. Paul Rexroat wasn't even present during the psychological evaluation 2.. The evaluation was completed by an unqualified individual 3.. Dr. Paul Rexroat hadn't seen me in over five years (age 15 to 21). I have matured greatly since working with him in any capacity at the Missouri School for the Blind 4.. Deception on the part of Dr. Paul Rexroat, Nancy Goebel, Naomi Soule, and Mark Laird 5.. Dr. Paul Rexroat fails to identify any of my strengths in his follow-up letter. Surly, he could have mentioned at least one positive attribute about me in the follow-up letter. 6.. The letter had a tone of hatred towards me Obviously, I am not the only one who is concerned about the qualifications of Denise Rexroat, given that Nancy sent a letter to Dr. Paul Rexroat, Ph.D. and Denise Rexroat, M.Ed. on December 12, 2008 inquiring about their credentials to administer psychological and neuropsychological testing. Evidence: Letter from Nancy to Paul and Denise Rexroat, dated December 12, 2008. It is apparent that Dr. Paul Rexroat was aware of Nancy's hidden agenda for inquiring about credentials, which wasn't for the purpose of updating her vendor resources. Rather, it was to verify the truth. I am confident that she was looking forward to receiving documentation that verified appropriate credentials that she could submit as evidence at this Fair Hearing. However, the written response that she received only further confirms what I believe to be the truth. And that is that Denise lacks the qualifications for test administration. Evidence: Letter to Nancy from Dr. Paul Rexroat, dated December 16, 2008 Initially, I do not believe that Nancy was truly aware of the fact that Denise wasn't qualified to conduct a psychological or neuropsychological evaluation. However, Nancy has a responsibility and an obligation to investigate in an even-handed manner the facts of the matter as an employee of RSB; as a competent Senior VR Counselor; and as a Licensed Social Worker. Inappropriate vendors should not be utilized for the provision of goods or services. The efforts to cover up the facts; failing to confirm the truth of the matter; and the retaliation directed towards me by Nancy, Naomi, and Mark are contrary to ethical behavior of these professionals. I called Dr. Paul Rexroat myself on December 10 , 2008 to request information about credentials of Denise Rexroat. I did not receive the requested documentation. However, I did receive a very nasty and threatening letter from him, dated December 22, 2008. His comments were directed towards Nancy and myself. It is interesting to note that this letter was not carbon copied to Nancy since the contents of it pertained to us both. Maybe he didn't think I would be sharing this letter with her. Evidence: Letter to me from Dr. Paul Rexroat, dated December 22, 2008 Evidence: Copy of envelope containing the above letter with a postmark of December 23, 2008 OTHER ISSUES, CONCERNS, & COMMENTS: COUNSELING WITH AMY PAIS, LPC: I find it interesting that I received counseling from Amy Pais, LPC two-to-three times a week for several months while in training at Lions World Services for the Blind. All of her reports were fairly positive with the exception of her last report. I cannot help but wonder why the change of attitude. Was she disappointed about the loss of income or did Nancy request such a report. Evidence: All counseling reports from Amy Pais, LPC INAPPROPRIATE REFERRAL: I was referred to The Center for Head Injury Services by Nancy without my knowledge. On September 24, 2008, I receive a letter from Dee Wolk, Vocational Tech of The Center for Head Injury Services, thanking me for "choosing The Center for Head Injury Services to provide your vocational services." The letter also states "Your vocational program is scheduled to start on Monday, October 6, 2008." I question the appropriateness of this referral, given that I do not have a head injury. I also believe that the information shared by Nancy far exceeded a "general inquiry" as she states in her narrative dated September 24, 2008. Nancy may not have even bothered to contact me regarding this referral. However, she was carbon-copied on the letter. Nancy's actions are contradictory to informed choice, selection of assessment services, and treatment as an active and full partner in the vocational rehabilitation process as outlined in the Policies and Procedures Related to Choice Throughout the Vocational Rehabilitation Process guidelines in my opinion. Evidence: Letter to me from Dee Wolk, dated September 23, 2008 Evidence: Copy of envelope with September 23, 2008 postmark Evidence: Copy of Policies and Procedures Related to Choice Throughout the Vocational Rehabilitation Process INAPPROPRIATE USE OF E-MAIL: On several occasions, I have been criticized for using e-mail inappropriately, and "e-mailing the world". I use e-mail for the same reason that staff at RSB use it, as a means for maintaining a paper trail through written documentation which cannot easily be disputed. Given the need to request a Fair Hearing, I have no regrets for using e-mail. It should also be noted that Nancy used e-mail inappropriately after case transfer. I did not appreciate the two e-mails that she sent me while I was at Lions World Services for the Blind. Counseling via e-mail is inappropriate. Sending demanding e-mails when just beginning to work with a client is no way to go about establishing rapport. Other individuals at LWSB had access to these e-mails because of being connected to a server. Criticizing the facility that I am attending and bad mouthing the staff of the facility was distasteful. I know for a fact that Mark Laird did not approve of the two e-mails that Nancy sent to me, as I was informed of this by Amy Pais, LPC during counseling. Amy had a telephone conversation with Mark during which the use of e-mail was discussed. Evidence: E-mail to me from Nancy dated June 25, 2008, 3:15 PM Evidence: E-mail to me from Nancy dated June 30, 2008, 12:07 PM Evidence: E-mail to me from Nancy dated July 3, 2008, 4:21 PM Evidence: E-mail from Nancy to Amy dated July 10, 2008, 10:40 AM NAOMI'S OVERALL SNIPPY ATTITUDE: I feel that Naomi has had an extreme dislike for me from May 1, 2008 to the present. On Thursday, May 1, 2008 Penny was informed by Naomi that renting an apartment to me was considered a "conflict of interest". The transfer of my case was not an option; the plan was for me to find alternative housing within a time period of six months. On Wednesday, May 28, 2008 Penny informed me that my case with Rehabilitation Services for the Blind was being transferred to Nancy Goebel, another counselor in the St. Louis South office, per instructions from Naomi. The tone of Naomi's e-mails to me have been snippy. Naomi was rather rude towards Kathryn Koch, my CAP Advocacy Specialist and me. I am of the understanding that Kathryn expressed similar concerns and feelings regarding Naomi's approach with her own supervisor. Naomi's attempt to obtain consent through intimidation is another reason that I sought legal counsel. Evidence: E-mail to me from Kathryn Koch dated December 1, 2008, 11:51 AM (Notes taken at IPE meeting on 11/21/2008 OTHER REASONS WHY I'M NOT CONSENTING TO A PSYCHIATRIC EVALUATION: 1.. I was evaluated every three years while at the Missouri School for the Blind for 10 years 2.. I completed an eight week comprehensive personal and vocational adjustment training program at the Cleveland Sight Center in Cleveland, Ohio during the summer of 2007. 3.. I completed a one month comprehensive personal and vocational adjustment evaluation at Lions World Services for the Blind beginning in January 2008, prior to completing six months of training at this facility. 4.. I saw Dr. Douglas, Psychiatrist several times while in training at LWSB. 5.. I saw Amy Pais, LPC for individual counseling two-to-three times a week while at LWSB. 6.. I completed a neuropsychological evaluation with Denise Rexroat on August 8, 2008 at the request of Nancy Goebel, Senior VR Counselor at RSB. 7.. I am currently under the care of Dr. Habib, Psychiatrist for medication management for major clinical depression. 8.. I am receiving individual counseling through Provident counseling once a week. Given the facts outlined above; leaving no stone unturned; is it, or should it be any surprise as to why I will not consent to any further evaluations by vendors that have been hand-picked by RSB. The emotional damage from Dr. Paul Rexroat's letters; retaliation from RSB personnel who should be supportive; and the general runaround that I have been given has been difficult to comprehend, understand, and dismiss. In less than 10 words, I have been a victim of the system. I feel that my relationship with RSB is one of disrepair. I chose to be represented by Michael Ackerman, Attorney at Law for the purpose of exposing the deception, lies, unethical behavior, lack of professionalism, and total disregard to me as a client by RSB personnel over the past several months. I do not feel that I would be served fairly by RSB from this point forward. Therefore, I am requesting that my Vocational Rehabilitation Case with Rehabilitation Services for the Blind be closed. I am further requesting that I be allowed to retain all equipment that has been purchased for my use. I would like this request to be acknowledged in the closure letter sent by Nancy. I am open to other reasonable solutions for receiving services without further retaliation. However, if other acceptable arrangements cannot be worked out, then I have no choice but to pursue litigation through the appropriate psychological and social work boards which govern Licensed Psychologists and Licensed Social Workers. In addition, I will seek remedy through the Governor's Office. Thanks in advance for your assistance, Cory From cjmc404 at gmail.com Sun Mar 15 03:01:30 2009 From: cjmc404 at gmail.com (cory McMahon) Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 22:01:30 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Gary Wunder's e-mail Message-ID: What is Gary Wunder's e-mail? Thanks, Cory Cory From b.schulz at sbcglobal.net Sun Mar 15 04:09:27 2009 From: b.schulz at sbcglobal.net (Bryan Schulz) Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 23:09:27 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Gary Wunder's e-mail References: Message-ID: <149C88E7CC324738AE84EF044608C1BB@notebook> hi, Gary's email is gwunder at earthlink.net. side note: if you're wanting to get a feel for the nfb, we are having the annual state convention in two weeks at the crown plaza hotel up on north lindbergh. the meat of the convention will be on saturday 3/28/09 from 8:00am to 5:00pm and i will pay for your lunch if you think you want to attend. Bryan Schulz The BEST Solution www.best-acts.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "cory McMahon" To: Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 10:01 PM Subject: [blindlaw] Gary Wunder's e-mail > What is Gary Wunder's e-mail? > > Thanks, > > Cory > Cory > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b.schulz%40sbcglobal.net From cjmc404 at gmail.com Sun Mar 15 04:17:35 2009 From: cjmc404 at gmail.com (cory McMahon) Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 23:17:35 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Gary Wunder's e-mail References: <149C88E7CC324738AE84EF044608C1BB@notebook> Message-ID: Thanks. Cory ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bryan Schulz" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 11:09 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Gary Wunder's e-mail > hi, > > Gary's email is gwunder at earthlink.net. > > side note: > if you're wanting to get a feel for the nfb, we are having the annual > state convention in two weeks at the crown plaza hotel up on north > lindbergh. > the meat of the convention will be on saturday 3/28/09 from 8:00am to > 5:00pm and i will pay for your lunch if you think you want to attend. > > Bryan Schulz > The BEST Solution > www.best-acts.com > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "cory McMahon" > To: > Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 10:01 PM > Subject: [blindlaw] Gary Wunder's e-mail > > >> What is Gary Wunder's e-mail? >> >> Thanks, >> >> Cory >> Cory >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b.schulz%40sbcglobal.net > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cjmc404%40gmail.com From b75205 at gmail.com Sun Mar 15 06:41:24 2009 From: b75205 at gmail.com (James Pepper) Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 01:41:24 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target In-Reply-To: <7DF12D30A7294ADEAA75754CE0751C02@labarre> References: <7DF12D30A7294ADEAA75754CE0751C02@labarre> Message-ID: Scott: What I do not get is why these companies are willing to go to court and spend all this money and put themselves into so much risk, when the solutions to these problems are actually just a matter of rolling up the sleeves and rebuilding the website. For instance I just took a look at the Target website. Right now as I type this it has 940 errors in its HTML code and 109 warnings according to the World Wide Web Consortium which sets the international standards the codes used to write websites. This is appalling! Their CSS errors are 38 errors, and 335 warnings. This means that they are not even up to the international standards for writing code properly. There is no excuse for this! The LSAT is using the wrong program to make their PDF files. They are using a program that fragments the content into such tiny pieces that the text cannot be put back together again. It is all gibberish. But this can be fixed! What I do not get is why this is such a problem for people to make their websites accessible? Why are they willing to fight in court, spend millions of dollars in settlement when the solutions are right in front of them! I am just amazed at the waste! James Pepper On Sat, Mar 14, 2009 at 9:19 PM, Scott C. LaBarre wrote: > The standards used are those of WCAG and Sec. 508. I did not work directly > on Target and cannot tell you exactly the access barriers. I can tell you > that with respect to filing applications to law schools through LSAC on > their website, it is impossible to fill those applications out independently > using screen reading softaware. Let me also assure list members that we > don't simply jump on a website, encounter difficulty, and then sue them the > next day. A lawsuit is the last resort when the entity is not willing to > deal with us otherwise. Just because we are a small minority does not mean > that our right to the mainstream of society must always be subservient to > the majority's unwillingness to consider us due to our small numbers. > Unless someone has a new point to be made on this topic, I respectfully > suggest that we move onto different discussions. Let's also agree to > disagree on certain points. > Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. > > LaBarre Law Offices P.C. > 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 > Denver, Colorado 80222 > 303 504-5979 (voice) > 303 757-3640 (fax) > slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) > www.labarrelaw.com (website) > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and > privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not > read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message > in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or > slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. This > message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic > Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Orozco" > To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" > Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 8:52 AM > > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > > What troubles me is that my question of accessibility standards has not > been > answered on the other case against the LSAC. The same question is > applicable here. What standard was used to conclude that the web site was > not accessible? I do not claim to be a genius at manipulating technology > to > serve my needs, but I did not have to try hard at all to make Target give > me > what I needed between 2005 and 2008. So is the problem the web site > layout, > or is it our own technology training? Rather than chase every entity with > features a few people deem inaccessible, would it not be prudent to take > our > standards, whatever those may be, to the classroom, to the software > developers, the relevant associations raising the performance standards of > its students and members? This method of engineering change gives us the > perception of a watchdog group. If this is what we have become, and given > the small margin of the population we represent, I would rather trigger > change at the source rather than at the output. > > Joe Orozco > > "A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the > crowd."--Max Lucado > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley > Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 9:24 AM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > That should not result in you receiving damages of almost $4,000.00. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 4:35 AM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > > As an individual I am insulted and damaged each time I am > discriminated by a > business not accommodating my ability to access their products > and services, > especially on the Internet when I have made sure that I have > accommodated > myself with the most up-to-date software to mitigate my needs as a blind > person. I should not have to rely on sighted assistance to use > a product or > do without because the greedy corporations has chosen the most expedient > road to sell their products. I am also insulted that you are > posting this > question. I have in my life time been sold out by too many > blind people that > thought they knew what I needed and I hope more companies will > have to pay > damages in these types of cases. Perhaps they will then learn > how to meet > the needs of all their customers. Fortunately here in California we have > some laws with some teeth in them that are > enforceable--although these teeth > still need a good sharpening. > Chuck > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. Deeley" < > stevep.deeley at insightbb.com> > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 6:22 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > > That is a lawyer talking who makes his living in rediculous > situations like > this one. Again, you show me how an individual was damaged and out > $4,000.00. > Steve > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott C. LaBarre" < > slabarre at labarrelaw.com> > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 5:38 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > > Violation of civil rights has long been recognized as a form of > compensible > legal damage as well it should be. > Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. > > LaBarre Law Offices P.C. > 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 > Denver, Colorado 80222 > 303 504-5979 (voice) > 303 757-3640 (fax) > slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) > www.labarrelaw.com (website) > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential > and privileged > information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read, > copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in > error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or > slabarre at labarrelaw.com, > and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and > any attachments > are covered by the Electronic > Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. Deeley" < > stevep.deeley at insightbb.com> > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 2:31 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > > This is ridiculous! How were these people damaged? >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mehgan Sidhu" >> To: >> Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 3:20 PM >> Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target >> >> >> To answer the recent questions posted about the Target case, >>> >> the final > >> settlement hearing took place on March 9th. I understand from our >>> counsel in California, Larry Paradis of DRA and Josh >>> >> Konecky, that there > >> were no objectors and the Judge was pleased with the >>> >> resolution of the > >> case. The settlement is not fully "final" until the time for any >>> appeals has run - which is about 30 days. Given there were >>> >> no objectors, > >> it is highly unlikely that any appeals will be filed. The >>> >> judge has not > >> yet made a ruling on attorneys fees, but that will not hold up >>> enforcement of the settlement. >>> >>> >>> >>> As for disbursements, assuming there are no appeals, the claims >>> administer has 45 days from the final approval date to >>> >> disburse funds to > >> claimants. I do not know the final tally of approved >>> >> claimants, though I > >> think there were several hundred. I will pass that information along >>> when I have it. >>> >>> >>> >>> We will now be working on enforcing the settlement commitments that >>> Target made with respect to the accessibility of the website. >>> >>> >>> Mehgan Sidhu >>> Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP >>> 120 East Baltimore Street, Suite 1700 >>> Baltimore, Maryland 21202 >>> 410-962-1030 x1324 >>> 410-385-0869 (fax) >>> ms at browngold.com >>> www.browngold.com >>> >>> Confidentiality Notice >>> >>> This e-mail may contain confidential information that may >>> >> also be legally > >> privileged and that is intended only for the use of the addressee(s) >>> named above. If you are not the intended recipient or an authorized >>> agent of the recipient, please be advised that any dissemination or >>> copying of this e-mail, or taking of any action in reliance on the >>> information contained herein, is strictly prohibited. If you have >>> received this e-mail in error, please notify me immediately >>> >> by use of the > >> reply button, and then delete the e-mail from your system. >>> >> Thank you! > >> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep > .deeley%40insightbb.com > >> >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------------- > >> >> >> >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release >> > Date: 03/13/09 > >> 05:59:00 >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/slabar > re%40labarrelaw.com > >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep > .deeley%40insightbb.com > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------------- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release > Date: 03/13/09 > 05:59:00 > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugm > an%40sbcglobal.net > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep > .deeley%40insightbb.com > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------------- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release > Date: 03/13/09 > 05:59:00 > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jsoroz > co%40gmail.com > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of > virus signature database 3936 (20090313) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature > database 3936 (20090313) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/slabarre%40labarrelaw.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b75205%40gmail.com > From dandrews at visi.com Sun Mar 15 06:02:14 2009 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 02:02:14 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target In-Reply-To: <3C355AFB1ACB43EEBDBD9356D3EFBF38@StevePC> References: <549FC55C53E54BA5814FA71C231CE71F@StevePC> <489BACB231A24B1494701FE7E81396B8@StevePC> <3C355AFB1ACB43EEBDBD9356D3EFBF38@StevePC> Message-ID: This is off topic, please stop. You may feel the way you do, and that is fine, but it has noting to do with the law and blindness, so is off topic for this list. David Andrews, Moderator At 12:41 PM 3/14/2009, you wrote: >I understand that, however, I just do not agree >with the entire concept of awarding damages in this sort of case. >Steve >----- Original Message ----- From: "Rod Alcidonis" >To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 9:27 AM >Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > > > Steve: > >The effort here was to try to help your understanding and educate your >logic, not to justify the existence of the legal system. I am afraid that >you are still not willing to accept that "damage" as used in the law is a >term of art. Meaning, It has a specific legal definition different from >normal use. It is different when you say that "my bicycle was damaged, for >example. It is a legal recognition that certain harms should be compensated. >In this case, the plaintiffs are being paid not for the fact that they were >physically damage in the normal use of the term, but for violations of their >civil rights. See Denis' e-mail for what the harm was. > >In the bicycle example, if someone were to break your bicycle, you can >receive "damages" as the cost of repair, or replacement of the bicycle. By >the way, you are also entitled to enforce your civil rights if you so choose >and receive damages. > >Not every violations entitle someone to such remedy. When a person cannot >get damages under the law, that person has the option of seeking equitable >relief in the form of an injunction or restraining order against the >defendant. In this case damages was available as a remedy so the plaintiffs >are getting money. They are getting paid because their civil rights were >violated. I hope this further helps inform your comments. > >Take care. > >Rod Alcidonis >Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009. >Roger Williams University School of Law >10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 >Bristol, RI 02809 >Cell: 718-704-4651 >Home: 401-824-8685 > >----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. >Deeley" >To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 9:22 PM >Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > >That is a lawyer talking who makes his living in rediculous situations like >this one. Again, you show me how an individual was damaged and out >$4,000.00. >Steve >----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott C. >LaBarre" >To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 5:38 PM >Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > >Violation of civil rights has long been recognized as a form of compensible >legal damage as well it should be. >Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. > >LaBarre Law Offices P.C. >1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 >Denver, Colorado 80222 >303 504-5979 (voice) >303 757-3640 (fax) >slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) >www.labarrelaw.com (website) > >CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and privileged >information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read, >copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in >error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or slabarre at labarrelaw.com, >and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any attachments >are covered by the Electronic >Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. >----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. >Deeley" >To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 2:31 PM >Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > >>This is ridiculous! How were these people damaged? >>----- Original Message ----- From: "Mehgan Sidhu" >>To: >>Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 3:20 PM >>Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target >> >> >>>To answer the recent questions posted about the Target case, the final >>>settlement hearing took place on March 9th. I understand from our >>>counsel in California, Larry Paradis of DRA and Josh Konecky, that there >>>were no objectors and the Judge was pleased with the resolution of the >>>case. The settlement is not fully "final" until the time for any >>>appeals has run - which is about 30 days. Given there were no objectors, >>>it is highly unlikely that any appeals will be filed. The judge has not >>>yet made a ruling on attorneys fees, but that will not hold up >>>enforcement of the settlement. >>> >>> >>> >>>As for disbursements, assuming there are no appeals, the claims >>>administer has 45 days from the final approval date to disburse funds to >>>claimants. I do not know the final tally of approved claimants, though I >>>think there were several hundred. I will pass that information along >>>when I have it. >>> >>> >>> >>>We will now be working on enforcing the settlement commitments that >>>Target made with respect to the accessibility of the website. >>> >>> >>>Mehgan Sidhu >>>Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP >>>120 East Baltimore Street, Suite 1700 >>>Baltimore, Maryland 21202 >>>410-962-1030 x1324 >>>410-385-0869 (fax) >>>ms at browngold.com >>>www.browngold.com >>> >>>Confidentiality Notice >>> >>>This e-mail may contain confidential information that may also be legally >>>privileged and that is intended only for the use of the addressee(s) >>>named above. If you are not the intended recipient or an authorized >>>agent of the recipient, please be advised that any dissemination or >>>copying of this e-mail, or taking of any action in reliance on the >>>information contained herein, is strictly prohibited. If you have >>>received this e-mail in error, please notify me immediately by use of the >>>reply button, and then delete the e-mail from your system. Thank you! >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>blindlaw mailing list >>>blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>blindlaw: >>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com >> >> >>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> >>No virus found in this incoming message. >>Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release Date: 03/13/09 >>05:59:00 >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>blindlaw mailing list >>blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>blindlaw: >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/slabarre%40labarrelaw.com > > > >_______________________________________________ >blindlaw mailing list >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >blindlaw: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com > > >-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release Date: 03/13/09 >05:59:00 > > >_______________________________________________ >blindlaw mailing list >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >blindlaw: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail.com > > >_______________________________________________ >blindlaw mailing list >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >your account info for blindlaw: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com > > >-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: >270.11.13/2001 - Release Date: 03/14/09 06:54:00 > > >_______________________________________________ >blindlaw mailing list >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >your account info for blindlaw: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40visi.com > From dandrews at visi.com Sun Mar 15 06:11:01 2009 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 02:11:01 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target In-Reply-To: <7DF12D30A7294ADEAA75754CE0751C02@labarre> References: <7DF12D30A7294ADEAA75754CE0751C02@labarre> Message-ID: Scott, Joe etc., The question of the Target site has come up, and Joe says he was able to use it. This very well could be true, as sometimes everything went fine. However, there were instances when the site put up on the screen a "purchase button" that was totally invisible to screen readers. Unless you clicked it, you could not finalize your purchase. It was not used for all purchases, but was for some. I know as it happened to me. Unfortunately I do not live in California. Anyway, if Joe didn't go all the way to making a purchase, or happened not to encounter the invisible button, then he would think the site was accessible. Dave At 10:19 PM 3/14/2009, you wrote: >The standards used are those of WCAG and Sec. >508. I did not work directly on Target and >cannot tell you exactly the access barriers. I >can tell you that with respect to filing >applications to law schools through LSAC on >their website, it is impossible to fill those >applications out independently using screen >reading softaware. Let me also assure list >members that we don't simply jump on a website, >encounter difficulty, and then sue them the next >day. A lawsuit is the last resort when the >entity is not willing to deal with us >otherwise. Just because we are a small minority >does not mean that our right to the mainstream >of society must always be subservient to the >majority's unwillingness to consider us due to >our small numbers. Unless someone has a new >point to be made on this topic, I respectfully >suggest that we move onto different >discussions. Let's also agree to disagree on certain points. >Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. > >LaBarre Law Offices P.C. >1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 >Denver, Colorado 80222 >303 504-5979 (voice) >303 757-3640 (fax) >slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) >www.labarrelaw.com (website) > >CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain >confidential and privileged information. If you >are not the designated recipient, you may not >read, copy, distribute or retain this message. >If you received this message in error, please >notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or >slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete >it from your system. This message and any >attachments are covered by the Electronic >Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. >----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Orozco" >To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 8:52 AM >Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > >What troubles me is that my question of accessibility standards has not been >answered on the other case against the LSAC. The same question is >applicable here. What standard was used to conclude that the web site was >not accessible? I do not claim to be a genius at manipulating technology to >serve my needs, but I did not have to try hard at all to make Target give me >what I needed between 2005 and 2008. So is the problem the web site layout, >or is it our own technology training? Rather than chase every entity with >features a few people deem inaccessible, would it not be prudent to take our >standards, whatever those may be, to the classroom, to the software >developers, the relevant associations raising the performance standards of >its students and members? This method of engineering change gives us the >perception of a watchdog group. If this is what we have become, and given >the small margin of the population we represent, I would rather trigger >change at the source rather than at the output. > >Joe Orozco > >"A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the >crowd."--Max Lucado > >-----Original Message----- >From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >[mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley >Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 9:24 AM >To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > >That should not result in you receiving damages of almost $4,000.00. >----- Original Message ----- >From: >To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 4:35 AM >Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > >As an individual I am insulted and damaged each time I am >discriminated by a >business not accommodating my ability to access their products >and services, >especially on the Internet when I have made sure that I have >accommodated >myself with the most up-to-date software to mitigate my needs as a blind >person. I should not have to rely on sighted assistance to use >a product or >do without because the greedy corporations has chosen the most expedient >road to sell their products. I am also insulted that you are >posting this >question. I have in my life time been sold out by too many >blind people that >thought they knew what I needed and I hope more companies will >have to pay >damages in these types of cases. Perhaps they will then learn >how to meet >the needs of all their customers. Fortunately here in California we have >some laws with some teeth in them that are >enforceable--although these teeth >still need a good sharpening. >Chuck >----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. >Deeley" >To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 6:22 PM >Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > >That is a lawyer talking who makes his living in rediculous >situations like >this one. Again, you show me how an individual was damaged and out >$4,000.00. >Steve >----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott C. >LaBarre" >To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 5:38 PM >Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > >Violation of civil rights has long been recognized as a form of >compensible >legal damage as well it should be. >Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. > >LaBarre Law Offices P.C. >1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 >Denver, Colorado 80222 >303 504-5979 (voice) >303 757-3640 (fax) >slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) >www.labarrelaw.com (website) > >CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential >and privileged >information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read, >copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in >error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or >slabarre at labarrelaw.com, >and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and >any attachments >are covered by the Electronic >Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. >----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. >Deeley" >To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 2:31 PM >Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > >>This is ridiculous! How were these people damaged? >>----- Original Message ----- From: "Mehgan Sidhu" >>To: >>Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 3:20 PM >>Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target >> >> >>>To answer the recent questions posted about the Target case, >the final >>>settlement hearing took place on March 9th. I understand from our >>>counsel in California, Larry Paradis of DRA and Josh >Konecky, that there >>>were no objectors and the Judge was pleased with the >resolution of the >>>case. The settlement is not fully "final" until the time for any >>>appeals has run - which is about 30 days. Given there were >no objectors, >>>it is highly unlikely that any appeals will be filed. The >judge has not >>>yet made a ruling on attorneys fees, but that will not hold up >>>enforcement of the settlement. >>> >>> >>> >>>As for disbursements, assuming there are no appeals, the claims >>>administer has 45 days from the final approval date to >disburse funds to >>>claimants. I do not know the final tally of approved >claimants, though I >>>think there were several hundred. I will pass that information along >>>when I have it. >>> >>> >>> >>>We will now be working on enforcing the settlement commitments that >>>Target made with respect to the accessibility of the website. >>> >>> >>>Mehgan Sidhu >>>Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP >>>120 East Baltimore Street, Suite 1700 >>>Baltimore, Maryland 21202 >>>410-962-1030 x1324 >>>410-385-0869 (fax) >>>ms at browngold.com >>>www.browngold.com >>> >>>Confidentiality Notice >>> >>>This e-mail may contain confidential information that may >also be legally >>>privileged and that is intended only for the use of the addressee(s) >>>named above. If you are not the intended recipient or an authorized >>>agent of the recipient, please be advised that any dissemination or >>>copying of this e-mail, or taking of any action in reliance on the >>>information contained herein, is strictly prohibited. If you have >>>received this e-mail in error, please notify me immediately >by use of the >>>reply button, and then delete the e-mail from your system. >Thank you! >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>blindlaw mailing list >>>blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>blindlaw: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep >.deeley%40insightbb.com >> >> >---------------------------------------------------------------- >---------------- >> >> >> >>No virus found in this incoming message. >>Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release >Date: 03/13/09 >>05:59:00 >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>blindlaw mailing list >>blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>blindlaw: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/slabar >re%40labarrelaw.com > > > >_______________________________________________ >blindlaw mailing list >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >blindlaw: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep >.deeley%40insightbb.com > > >---------------------------------------------------------------- >---------------- > > > >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release >Date: 03/13/09 >05:59:00 > > >_______________________________________________ >blindlaw mailing list >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >blindlaw: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugm >an%40sbcglobal.net > > >_______________________________________________ >blindlaw mailing list >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >blindlaw: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep >.deeley%40insightbb.com > > >---------------------------------------------------------------- >---------------- > > > >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release >Date: 03/13/09 >05:59:00 > > >_______________________________________________ >blindlaw mailing list >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >info for blindlaw: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jsoroz >co%40gmail.com > > >__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of >virus signature database 3936 (20090313) __________ > >The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > >http://www.eset.com > > > >__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature >database 3936 (20090313) __________ > >The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > >http://www.eset.com > > > >_______________________________________________ >blindlaw mailing list >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >your account info for blindlaw: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/slabarre%40labarrelaw.com > > > >_______________________________________________ >blindlaw mailing list >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >your account info for blindlaw: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40visi.com > From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Sun Mar 15 07:17:34 2009 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 00:17:34 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target In-Reply-To: <200903141943.n2EJheii028910@flpi184.prodigy.net> References: <200903141943.n2EJheii028910@flpi184.prodigy.net> Message-ID: <722CF4B2E98C4F3FB9E2BCAABFA98C97@spike> As I recall the problem with the Target sight was the poor labeling of graphics and identification of products that were on special and other such factors. Many of the items were not labeled at all preventing blind users from knowing what was advertised in some spots. In a recent visit to the site I found that the layout was still very confusing and it was hard to find particular items. The use of image maps that are not labeled would not be considered accessible. The standard web accessibility guidelines have been defined and are very clear for web designers to follow. they are readily available at various web sites that address these issues. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "Angie Matney" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 12:14 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > Joe asked: > >>What troubles me is that my question of accessibility standards has not >>been >>answered on the other case against the LSAC. The same question is >>applicable here. What standard was used to conclude that the web site was >>not accessible? I do not claim to be a genius at manipulating technology >>to >>serve my needs, but I did not have to try hard at all to make Target give >>me >>what I needed between 2005 and 2008. > > I can't compare the relative accessibility of the Target site to the LSAC > site because I haven't attempted to shop at Target's site. But the LSAC > site is inaccessible to every person who uses JAWS as their sole means of > accessing the internet. > (At least, this was the case when I applied to law schools in the fall of > 2005.) Perhaps I overestimate my own abilities, but I feel pretty > confident in saying that I can get just about any marginally accessible > site to do what I want. But I could not > apply to law school without the aid of multiple friends who served as > readers. In fall, 2005, the application forms used by LSAC were not > accessible with JAWS. I believe I was able to enter information into the > "general" form, which then > populated each application form with my personal data. But the specific > application forms didn't speak. > > So is the problem the web site layout, >>or is it our own technology training? Rather than chase every entity with >>features a few people deem inaccessible, would it not be prudent to take >>our >>standards, whatever those may be, to the classroom, to the software >>developers, the relevant associations raising the performance standards of >>its students and members? > > Possibly. But on the other hand, why should blind people have to be > especially proficient computer users to access things like a retail web > site? There will always be people who, for whatever reason, do not have > the opportunity to receive the > kind of training you're talking about. There will be others who, > regardless of training, possess less intuition about how to operate a > screen reader in unfamiliar circumstances. I'm not suggesting that web > site developers should assume zero > training on the part of the end user; but relying on extensive training to > guarantee accessibility automatically means some people will be excluded. > > This reminds me of an experience I had a few months back. I was flying to > Boston to visit a friend, and I wanted to reserve window seats. I was > presented with an image map that seemed to give me this opportunity. I > thought about how best to > approach the thing, made an educated guess about what to do, and > successfully reserved the seats I wanted. (The gate agent later happily > informed me that he'd gone ahead and moved me to bulkhead seating because > of my dog. I told him > I wanted my chosen seat. He refused, claiming regs required him to put me > there. Fortunately the flight attendant let me have the seat I'd worked so > hard to reserve. I wish I'd filed a formal complaint about that...But I > digress.) I later heard a > blind friend, who is also quite proficient with access technology, > characterize what I assume was a similar site (possibly even the same > airline site) as inaccessible. I personally don't believe that the fact > that I was able to figure this out makes > the site accessible. A sighted user would not have to work nearly so hard > to reserve a seat on a flight. > > There will always be some people who are intimidated by the internet in > general. These individuals will have trouble accessing the basic features > of many web sites. (My dad is one such person, and he's not blind.) But if > reasonably proficient > blind computer users can't access a site, I think it's perfectly > reasonable to insist on modifications. We don't want an internet that is > only accessible to those of us who have had the most opportunities. > > JMO, > > Angie > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Sun Mar 15 07:52:09 2009 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 00:52:09 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target In-Reply-To: References: <000f01c9a4e2$815a4230$840ec690$@net> Message-ID: those are probably the same questions that they ask all applicants. By asking everyone the same questions the interviewer is protecting himself and the organization for which he is interviewing from potential problems down the road. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Shaw" To: Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 2:59 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target heh the skills of blindness;) i had a job interview to be a rehabilitation teacher for the blind on Thursdfday and all the interview questions were like "what is a goal a blind person might set for themselves" and "what are some things a blind person could use to aide them in their every day living" it was like really are you asking me, a blind person, these questions lol. > From: bspiry at comcast.net > To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org > Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 13:21:49 -0700 > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > I completely agree with Angie's perspective on this. The reality is that > if > a blind person is able to navigate the internet and get to the site of a > retailer, that blind person likely already has a higher skill level with > the > computer, out of simple necessity, than the average sighted person who > simply uses their PC to browse the web, do some shopping and send a few > emails. We will never be free of the necessity to learn the skills of > blindness in order to live "normal" lives, but by God we should not be > required to developed specialized technical and functional skills in order > to use simple services and enjoy privledges when those services and > privledges can be made accessible with limited cost and effort. > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of Angie Matney > Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 12:15 PM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > Joe asked: > > >What troubles me is that my question of accessibility standards has not > been > >answered on the other case against the LSAC. The same question is > >applicable here. What standard was used to conclude that the web site was > >not accessible? I do not claim to be a genius at manipulating technology > to > >serve my needs, but I did not have to try hard at all to make Target give > me > >what I needed between 2005 and 2008. > > I can't compare the relative accessibility of the Target site to the LSAC > site because I haven't attempted to shop at Target's site. But the LSAC > site > is inaccessible to every person who uses JAWS as their sole means of > accessing the internet. > (At least, this was the case when I applied to law schools in the fall of > 2005.) Perhaps I overestimate my own abilities, but I feel pretty > confident > in saying that I can get just about any marginally accessible site to do > what I want. But I could not > apply to law school without the aid of multiple friends who served as > readers. In fall, 2005, the application forms used by LSAC were not > accessible with JAWS. I believe I was able to enter information into the > "general" form, which then > populated each application form with my personal data. But the specific > application forms didn't speak. > > So is the problem the web site layout, > >or is it our own technology training? Rather than chase every entity with > >features a few people deem inaccessible, would it not be prudent to take > our > >standards, whatever those may be, to the classroom, to the software > >developers, the relevant associations raising the performance standards > >of > >its students and members? > > Possibly. But on the other hand, why should blind people have to be > especially proficient computer users to access things like a retail web > site? There will always be people who, for whatever reason, do not have > the > opportunity to receive the > kind of training you're talking about. There will be others who, > regardless > of training, possess less intuition about how to operate a screen reader > in > unfamiliar circumstances. I'm not suggesting that web site developers > should > assume zero > training on the part of the end user; but relying on extensive training to > guarantee accessibility automatically means some people will be excluded. > > This reminds me of an experience I had a few months back. I was flying to > Boston to visit a friend, and I wanted to reserve window seats. I was > presented with an image map that seemed to give me this opportunity. I > thought about how best to > approach the thing, made an educated guess about what to do, and > successfully reserved the seats I wanted. (The gate agent later happily > informed me that he'd gone ahead and moved me to bulkhead seating because > of > my dog. I told him > I wanted my chosen seat. He refused, claiming regs required him to put me > there. Fortunately the flight attendant let me have the seat I'd worked so > hard to reserve. I wish I'd filed a formal complaint about that...But I > digress.) I later heard a > blind friend, who is also quite proficient with access technology, > characterize what I assume was a similar site (possibly even the same > airline site) as inaccessible. I personally don't believe that the fact > that > I was able to figure this out makes > the site accessible. A sighted user would not have to work nearly so hard > to > reserve a seat on a flight. > > There will always be some people who are intimidated by the internet in > general. These individuals will have trouble accessing the basic features > of > many web sites. (My dad is one such person, and he's not blind.) But if > reasonably proficient > blind computer users can't access a site, I think it's perfectly > reasonable > to insist on modifications. We don't want an internet that is only > accessible to those of us who have had the most opportunities. > > JMO, > > Angie > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/bspiry%40comcast.n > et > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/timandvickie%40hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ Express your personality in color! Preview and select themes for Hotmail®. http://www.windowslive-hotmail.com/LearnMore/personalize.aspx?ocid=TXT_MSGTX_WL_HM_express_032009#colortheme _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Sun Mar 15 08:22:27 2009 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 01:22:27 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target In-Reply-To: References: <549FC55C53E54BA5814FA71C231CE71F@StevePC><03B8D4FE14404DA090F70CC5A0D9949B@StevePC> <572950BB1C7A4653B86DA42CA429C608@spike> Message-ID: <9CC2821B33EE42839030603B8B324C82@spike> This is what happens when professional groups like the state medical society have too much influence. There have been similar attempts to do such things in California and our predominantly Democratic legislature has prevented it from happening. Many consumer protection groups are very effective when it comes to lobbying against such draconian measures. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Shaw" To: Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 6:43 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target yes, they could go an pass a limit that is way to low like they have in Texas for medical malpractice in Texas. They have set such a hard maximum for such medical cases in Texas that it is had to find a lawyer here anymore that will do malpractice cases anymore because the amount received wont even cover the legal fees > From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net > To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org > Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 17:14:14 -0700 > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > part of the issue here is that damages awarded to punish businesses for > this > type of inappropriate behavior. it is used as a deterrent to insure that > businesses are made to follow the laws and take civil rights issues > seriously. It is the same principle that courts use for assessing fines > for > drunk driving and other offenses. In order to bring about change you need > to > affect an individual or a business in a way that is effective and awarding > damages is one of the best ways possible. It has become a sound principal > of > law and has been upheld in many court tests both in civil and criminal > cases. > Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal > 1237 P Street > Fresno ca 93721 > 559-266-9237 > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Steve P. Deeley" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 6:25 AM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > > >I want someone to show me how this results in damages of this magnitude. > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Rod Alcidonis" > > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > > Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 12:24 AM > > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > > > > >> Steve: > >> > >> If you are not an attorney or a law student, we may be arguing and > >> understanding different concepts here. "Damage" is a legal concept, and > >> if > >> not used in that sense can certainly lead to ridiculous understanding. > >> A > >> damage award allows a plaintiff to be compensated for the harm caused > >> by > >> the > >> defendant. Damages take various forms: physical harm, emotional harm, > >> loss > >> wages, etc. Here as Scott said, the legislature has decided to make > >> such > >> civil rights violations compensable as damages. It is a legal > >> recognition > >> that a harm was caused, and it was caused to the plaintiff. The harm > >> here > >> was violations of federal and State civil rights. > >> I hope that helps. > >> > >> Rod Alcidonis > >> Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009. > >> Roger Williams University School of Law > >> 10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 > >> Bristol, RI 02809 > >> Cell: 718-704-4651 > >> Home: 401-824-8685 > >> > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "Steve P. Deeley" > >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > >> Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 9:20 PM > >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > >> > >> > >>> Well, sign me up. There are dozens of Web sites a year that I can't > >>> access. This is just ridiculous. This is, exactly, what raises the > >>> cost > >>> of doing business for companies. I'm not condoning Target's continuing > >>> unwillingness to deal with their inaccessible > >>> web site, however, there is no way that an individual is damaged to > >>> the > >>> tune of $4,000.00. > >>> Steve > >>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>> From: "Mehgan Sidhu" > >>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > >>> Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 5:02 PM > >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > >>> > >>> > >>>> Steve, > >>>> > >>>> In addition to the ADA claim, the lawsuit was brought under > >>>> California's > >>>> Unruh Act and Disabled Person's Act, both of which provide for > >>>> minimum > >>>> statutory damages ($4,000 and $1,000 per violation, respectively). > >>>> Under > >>>> the agreement, members of the California class who are legally blind, > >>>> had > >>>> attempted to use Target.com between February 7, 2003 and December 9, > >>>> 2008, and experienced significant barriers were eligible for damages > >>>> of > >>>> up to $3,500 per violation for a maximum of 2 violations. > >>>> > >>>> A copy of the settlement is available at the following site: > >>>> http://www.nfbtargetlawsuit.com/final_settlement.html > >>>> > >>>> Mehgan Sidhu > >>>> Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP > >>>> 120 East Baltimore Street, Suite 1700 > >>>> Baltimore, Maryland 21202 > >>>> 410-962-1030 x1324 > >>>> 410-385-0869 (fax) > >>>> ms at browngold.com > >>>> www.browngold.com > >>>> > >>>> Confidentiality Notice > >>>> > >>>> This e-mail may contain confidential information that may also be > >>>> legally > >>>> privileged and that is intended only for the use of the addressee(s) > >>>> named above. If you are not the intended recipient or an authorized > >>>> agent of the recipient, please be advised that any dissemination or > >>>> copying of this e-mail, or taking of any action in reliance on the > >>>> information contained herein, is strictly prohibited. If you have > >>>> received this e-mail in error, please notify me immediately by use of > >>>> the > >>>> reply button, and then delete the e-mail from your system. Thank you! > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org > >>>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] > >>>> On > >>>> Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley > >>>> Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 4:31 PM > >>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > >>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > >>>> > >>>> This is ridiculous! How were these people damaged? > >>>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>>> From: "Mehgan Sidhu" > >>>> To: > >>>> Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 3:20 PM > >>>> Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>> To answer the recent questions posted about the Target case, the > >>>>> final > >>>>> settlement hearing took place on March 9th. I understand from our > >>>>> counsel > >>>>> in California, Larry Paradis of DRA and Josh Konecky, that there > >>>>> were > >>>>> no > >>>>> objectors and the Judge was pleased with the resolution of the case. > >>>>> The > >>>>> settlement is not fully "final" until the time for any appeals has > >>>>> run - > >>>>> which is about 30 days. Given there were no objectors, it is highly > >>>>> unlikely that any appeals will be filed. The judge has not yet made > >>>>> a > >>>>> ruling on attorneys fees, but that will not hold up enforcement of > >>>>> the > >>>>> settlement. > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> As for disbursements, assuming there are no appeals, the claims > >>>>> administer > >>>>> has 45 days from the final approval date to disburse funds to > >>>>> claimants. > >>>>> I do not know the final tally of approved claimants, though I think > >>>>> there > >>>>> were several hundred. I will pass that information along when I have > >>>>> it. > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> We will now be working on enforcing the settlement commitments that > >>>>> Target > >>>>> made with respect to the accessibility of the website. > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> Mehgan Sidhu > >>>>> Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP > >>>>> 120 East Baltimore Street, Suite 1700 > >>>>> Baltimore, Maryland 21202 > >>>>> 410-962-1030 x1324 > >>>>> 410-385-0869 (fax) > >>>>> ms at browngold.com > >>>>> www.browngold.com > >>>>> > >>>>> Confidentiality Notice > >>>>> > >>>>> This e-mail may contain confidential information that may also be > >>>>> legally > >>>>> privileged and that is intended only for the use of the addressee(s) > >>>>> named > >>>>> above. If you are not the intended recipient or an authorized agent > >>>>> of > >>>>> the recipient, please be advised that any dissemination or copying > >>>>> of > >>>>> this > >>>>> e-mail, or taking of any action in reliance on the information > >>>>> contained > >>>>> herein, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in > >>>>> error, please notify me immediately by use of the reply button, and > >>>>> then > >>>>> delete the e-mail from your system. Thank you! > >>>>> > >>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>> blindlaw mailing list > >>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > >>>>> for > >>>>> blindlaw: > >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> No virus found in this incoming message. > >>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > >>>> Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release Date: > >>>> 03/13/09 > >>>> 05:59:00 > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> blindlaw mailing list > >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>>> blindlaw: > >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ms%40browngold.com > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> blindlaw mailing list > >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>>> blindlaw: > >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com > >>> > >>> > >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> No virus found in this incoming message. > >>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > >>> Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release Date: > >>> 03/13/09 > >>> 05:59:00 > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> blindlaw mailing list > >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>> blindlaw: > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail.com > >>> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> blindlaw mailing list > >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> blindlaw: > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > > Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release Date: > > 03/13/09 > > 05:59:00 > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > blindlaw mailing list > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/timandvickie%40hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail® is up to 70% faster. Now good news travels really fast. http://windowslive.com/online/hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_70faster_032009 _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net From angie at mpmail.net Sun Mar 15 10:41:05 2009 From: angie at mpmail.net (Angie Matney) Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 06:41:05 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] LSAC Reader Settlement In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Did LSAC ever put anything up on their site concerning their reader policy? If memory serves, you had to request that this info be sent to you when I was applying. Angie From roddj12 at hotmail.com Sun Mar 15 14:02:00 2009 From: roddj12 at hotmail.com (Rod Alcidonis) Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 10:02:00 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] LSAC Reader Settlement References: Message-ID: I only hope that for that reason, Angie, that any settlement with them this time has more teeth. Otherwise, we will be in the same place 5-10 years down the road. The LSAC has demonstrated times and again that they are not an entity willing to abide by legal obligations. Not only in not publishing their reader policy to test takers but in granting other accommodations -- where there is no standard to guide the process. I had accommodations that were granted to me because of blindness and denied to others also because of blindness. Rod Alcidonis Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009. Roger Williams University School of Law 10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 Bristol, RI 02809 Cell: 718-704-4651 Home: 401-824-8685 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Angie Matney" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 6:41 AM Subject: [blindlaw] LSAC Reader Settlement > Did LSAC ever put anything up on their site concerning their reader > policy? If memory serves, you had to request that this info be sent to you > when I was applying. > > Angie > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail.com > From joramsey at cox.net Sun Mar 15 15:25:28 2009 From: joramsey at cox.net (John ) Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 11:25:28 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] LSAC Reader Settlement In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <065953B7C3D24C20A70FFCC439750369@noneeb869fea9a> I remember having to call and inquire about the reader policy as well. Fortunately I did not have any granting of accommodation issues, but they were very secretive about the things they would and would not provide. Finally, like Rod, I know people who have been denied lesser accommodations than I was granted and they are blind too. It is a rather strange dilemma in dealing with LSAC. John A. Ramsey Jr., Esq. Gainesville, FL 32609 Phone: (352) 505-6642 -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Rod Alcidonis Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 10:02 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAC Reader Settlement I only hope that for that reason, Angie, that any settlement with them this time has more teeth. Otherwise, we will be in the same place 5-10 years down the road. The LSAC has demonstrated times and again that they are not an entity willing to abide by legal obligations. Not only in not publishing their reader policy to test takers but in granting other accommodations -- where there is no standard to guide the process. I had accommodations that were granted to me because of blindness and denied to others also because of blindness. Rod Alcidonis Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009. Roger Williams University School of Law 10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 Bristol, RI 02809 Cell: 718-704-4651 Home: 401-824-8685 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Angie Matney" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 6:41 AM Subject: [blindlaw] LSAC Reader Settlement > Did LSAC ever put anything up on their site concerning their reader > policy? If memory serves, you had to request that this info be sent to you > when I was applying. > > Angie > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail. com > _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joramsey%40cox.net From bspiry at comcast.net Sun Mar 15 15:44:00 2009 From: bspiry at comcast.net (Bill Spiry) Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 08:44:00 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target In-Reply-To: References: <7DF12D30A7294ADEAA75754CE0751C02@labarre> Message-ID: <000401c9a584$dca448f0$95ecdad0$@net> The world is unfortunately full of slow learners. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of James Pepper Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 11:41 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target Scott: What I do not get is why these companies are willing to go to court and spend all this money and put themselves into so much risk, when the solutions to these problems are actually just a matter of rolling up the sleeves and rebuilding the website. For instance I just took a look at the Target website. Right now as I type this it has 940 errors in its HTML code and 109 warnings according to the World Wide Web Consortium which sets the international standards the codes used to write websites. This is appalling! Their CSS errors are 38 errors, and 335 warnings. This means that they are not even up to the international standards for writing code properly. There is no excuse for this! The LSAT is using the wrong program to make their PDF files. They are using a program that fragments the content into such tiny pieces that the text cannot be put back together again. It is all gibberish. But this can be fixed! What I do not get is why this is such a problem for people to make their websites accessible? Why are they willing to fight in court, spend millions of dollars in settlement when the solutions are right in front of them! I am just amazed at the waste! James Pepper On Sat, Mar 14, 2009 at 9:19 PM, Scott C. LaBarre wrote: > The standards used are those of WCAG and Sec. 508. I did not work directly > on Target and cannot tell you exactly the access barriers. I can tell you > that with respect to filing applications to law schools through LSAC on > their website, it is impossible to fill those applications out independently > using screen reading softaware. Let me also assure list members that we > don't simply jump on a website, encounter difficulty, and then sue them the > next day. A lawsuit is the last resort when the entity is not willing to > deal with us otherwise. Just because we are a small minority does not mean > that our right to the mainstream of society must always be subservient to > the majority's unwillingness to consider us due to our small numbers. > Unless someone has a new point to be made on this topic, I respectfully > suggest that we move onto different discussions. Let's also agree to > disagree on certain points. > Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. > > LaBarre Law Offices P.C. > 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 > Denver, Colorado 80222 > 303 504-5979 (voice) > 303 757-3640 (fax) > slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) > www.labarrelaw.com (website) > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and > privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not > read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message > in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or > slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. This > message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic > Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Orozco" > To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" > Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 8:52 AM > > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > > What troubles me is that my question of accessibility standards has not > been > answered on the other case against the LSAC. The same question is > applicable here. What standard was used to conclude that the web site was > not accessible? I do not claim to be a genius at manipulating technology > to > serve my needs, but I did not have to try hard at all to make Target give > me > what I needed between 2005 and 2008. So is the problem the web site > layout, > or is it our own technology training? Rather than chase every entity with > features a few people deem inaccessible, would it not be prudent to take > our > standards, whatever those may be, to the classroom, to the software > developers, the relevant associations raising the performance standards of > its students and members? This method of engineering change gives us the > perception of a watchdog group. If this is what we have become, and given > the small margin of the population we represent, I would rather trigger > change at the source rather than at the output. > > Joe Orozco > > "A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the > crowd."--Max Lucado > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley > Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 9:24 AM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > That should not result in you receiving damages of almost $4,000.00. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 4:35 AM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > > As an individual I am insulted and damaged each time I am > discriminated by a > business not accommodating my ability to access their products > and services, > especially on the Internet when I have made sure that I have > accommodated > myself with the most up-to-date software to mitigate my needs as a blind > person. I should not have to rely on sighted assistance to use > a product or > do without because the greedy corporations has chosen the most expedient > road to sell their products. I am also insulted that you are > posting this > question. I have in my life time been sold out by too many > blind people that > thought they knew what I needed and I hope more companies will > have to pay > damages in these types of cases. Perhaps they will then learn > how to meet > the needs of all their customers. Fortunately here in California we have > some laws with some teeth in them that are > enforceable--although these teeth > still need a good sharpening. > Chuck > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. Deeley" < > stevep.deeley at insightbb.com> > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 6:22 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > > That is a lawyer talking who makes his living in rediculous > situations like > this one. Again, you show me how an individual was damaged and out > $4,000.00. > Steve > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott C. LaBarre" < > slabarre at labarrelaw.com> > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 5:38 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > > Violation of civil rights has long been recognized as a form of > compensible > legal damage as well it should be. > Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. > > LaBarre Law Offices P.C. > 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 > Denver, Colorado 80222 > 303 504-5979 (voice) > 303 757-3640 (fax) > slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) > www.labarrelaw.com (website) > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential > and privileged > information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read, > copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in > error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or > slabarre at labarrelaw.com, > and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and > any attachments > are covered by the Electronic > Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. Deeley" < > stevep.deeley at insightbb.com> > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 2:31 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > > This is ridiculous! How were these people damaged? >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mehgan Sidhu" >> To: >> Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 3:20 PM >> Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target >> >> >> To answer the recent questions posted about the Target case, >>> >> the final > >> settlement hearing took place on March 9th. I understand from our >>> counsel in California, Larry Paradis of DRA and Josh >>> >> Konecky, that there > >> were no objectors and the Judge was pleased with the >>> >> resolution of the > >> case. The settlement is not fully "final" until the time for any >>> appeals has run - which is about 30 days. Given there were >>> >> no objectors, > >> it is highly unlikely that any appeals will be filed. The >>> >> judge has not > >> yet made a ruling on attorneys fees, but that will not hold up >>> enforcement of the settlement. >>> >>> >>> >>> As for disbursements, assuming there are no appeals, the claims >>> administer has 45 days from the final approval date to >>> >> disburse funds to > >> claimants. I do not know the final tally of approved >>> >> claimants, though I > >> think there were several hundred. I will pass that information along >>> when I have it. >>> >>> >>> >>> We will now be working on enforcing the settlement commitments that >>> Target made with respect to the accessibility of the website. >>> >>> >>> Mehgan Sidhu >>> Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP >>> 120 East Baltimore Street, Suite 1700 >>> Baltimore, Maryland 21202 >>> 410-962-1030 x1324 >>> 410-385-0869 (fax) >>> ms at browngold.com >>> www.browngold.com >>> >>> Confidentiality Notice >>> >>> This e-mail may contain confidential information that may >>> >> also be legally > >> privileged and that is intended only for the use of the addressee(s) >>> named above. If you are not the intended recipient or an authorized >>> agent of the recipient, please be advised that any dissemination or >>> copying of this e-mail, or taking of any action in reliance on the >>> information contained herein, is strictly prohibited. If you have >>> received this e-mail in error, please notify me immediately >>> >> by use of the > >> reply button, and then delete the e-mail from your system. >>> >> Thank you! > >> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep > .deeley%40insightbb.com > >> >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------------- > >> >> >> >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release >> > Date: 03/13/09 > >> 05:59:00 >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/slabar > re%40labarrelaw.com > >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep > .deeley%40insightbb.com > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------------- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release > Date: 03/13/09 > 05:59:00 > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugm > an%40sbcglobal.net > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep > .deeley%40insightbb.com > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------------- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release > Date: 03/13/09 > 05:59:00 > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jsoroz > co%40gmail.com > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of > virus signature database 3936 (20090313) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature > database 3936 (20090313) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/slabarre%40labarre law.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b75205%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/bspiry%40comcast.n et From JMcCarthy at nfb.org Sun Mar 15 15:59:12 2009 From: JMcCarthy at nfb.org (McCarthy, Jim) Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 11:59:12 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] comments needed regarding policy foraudiblepedestriansignals In-Reply-To: <3EF776BCF9174299958856D958862DCE@spike> Message-ID: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6B26D668@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local> Chuck, You bring up streets with medians, which reminds me of a point in the document that I might question. The document says that it is better for blind people to complete the entire crossing rather than to wait in a median, doing the crossing in multiple parts, usually two. I think that when the person realizes that there is a median, he or she is more comfortable waiting there. What sometimes happens though is that the median is not clearly indicated so a blind person is not sure where in the street area would be safe to wait. I know that when I had a dog, he would go toward the place with the least obstructions so it was hard to realize that there might be a median. Medians that are not raised or otherwise distinguishable to a blind person are highly appropriate places for detectible warnings and in my experience, probably the most appropriate places for them. That, of course, is another topic. Jim McCarthy -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 1:17 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] comments needed regarding policy foraudiblepedestriansignals thanks. Some of the audible signals that have been installed thus far installed at appropriate intersections. Others have been installed ast places where there is a low volume of traffic and where there is a low demand. Apparently they are wanting to have a more a systematic approach in place to determine where signals will be installed in the future. We have many intersections where there are medians crossing several wide streets where they have not been installed. On these I personally prefer to at times to divide the crossing in to two sections to pay more attention to traffic flow. There is another location where they should probably build a pedestrian crossing either above or below ground. There is a precedent for a couple of below ground crossings one in downtown Fresno that was built in the 60's and one that was just opened a couple of years ago to go under railroad tracks that cut through the campus of the local community college. There have been some above ground pedestrian crossings of major roads and freeways to benefit children going to school. As a long-time cane user trained long before audible signals were fashionable or feasible I still believe that traffic flow is the best audible signal. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "McCarthy, Jim" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 6:58 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] comments needed regarding policy for audiblepedestriansignals > Chuck, > I am happy to talk through this with you off line if you would prefer. > Nevertheless, I will offer my immediate thoughts after reading. It is > a little unclear what the goal is. This process is to prioritize > intersections giving those most in need APS first. I am convinced > that there are several signalized (light controlled) intersections > that do not need these devices. However, this might be a way to > provide APS at all signalized intersections in time and that may be > what the Access-Board will come to require. > > I think it is good to have as a part of the evaluation team a blind > person and a deaf blind person when the requester is deaf blind or > serves that community. I have always found it problematic though when > cities say that the centers blind people use should have some super > priority. I lived in Portland Oregon and the west part of the city > was hilly with curvy streets. Many were not straight and some had high speed traffic. > However, the audible traffic signals were almost never in those > neighborhoods (the better ones I might add) because it was assumed > that blind people did not frequent them. To me that is a ghettoizing > assumption that results from this process. I do think that public > transit centers and such places should have greater attention paid > though and this document would do that. > > Finally, in the main, I think that the traffic and street > configuration factors are as they should be. I think that the > locations with the greatest need based on these factors should be the > first to receive signals. The Fresno process is similar to others I > have seen, though I would prefer that the evaluation group use the factors and evaluate all > signalized intersections using the factors more than whether and how > many requests were made. > Jim McCarthy > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] > On Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net > Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2009 8:21 AM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: [blindlaw] comments needed regarding policy for audible > pedestriansignals > > The City of Fresno is proposing the policy shown below to evaluate the > installation of audible traffic signals. As this is outside my > expertise I would appreciate any comments regarding this document. > Please feel free to contact me off list if needed. > Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal > 1237 P Street > Fresno ca 93721 > 559-266-9237 > > > APS Policy-03-09-LP .pdf > DRAFT ACCESSIBLE PEDESTRIAN SIGNALS (APS) INTERSECTION EVALUATION > PROCEDURE BACKGROUND Accessible Pedestrian Signals (APS), also known > as audible pedestrian signals, are devices that communicate > information about pedestrian timing in nonvisual format such as > audible tones, verbal messages, and/or vibrating surfaces. APS are > used in conjunction with standard pedestrian activated traffic signals > to provide the following information to pedestrians: > list of 4 items > · > Existence of and location of the pedestrian pushbutton · Beginning of > the pedestrian WALK interval · Direction of the crosswalk and location > of the destination curb · Clearance signal interval list end They are > used to assist blind and visually impaired persons and other persons > with disabilities of all ages to cross at designated streets and intersections. > PURPOSE > The purpose of this evaluation policy is to set forth factors to be > used by the City of Fresno's Public Works Department, in cooperation > with the City of Fresno's Disability Advisory Commission, in > developing a priority listing of signalized intersection candidates to > be retrofitted with audible devices that will provide guidance for the > blind community and visually impaired persons and other persons with > disabilities of all ages to cross certain streets. > POLICY > It is the policy of the City Council that the retrofitting of existing > traffic signals with APS shall be based on factors established herein > and that such measurements and computations as may be required in > determining priority rating of candidate locations shall be the > responsibility of the Public Works Department. > It should be noted that in special situations, an APS should not be > installed because of the adverse affect it could have on pedestrian > safety as a result of the overall traffic circulation pattern of an > area, or unusual geometric conditions where an APS would not provide > the safety benefits necessary for the blind or visually impaired > individuals to cross a street. It should also be noted that some > traffic signals cannot be retrofitted with APS without major costly > modifications. Retrofitting of traffic signals with APS shall be > subject to approval by the City Engineer. > Important: APS are utilized to help blind and visually impaired > travelers recognize when a WALK signal is operating in a given > direction. An APS may enhance the safety of blind travelers in two ways: > list of 1 items > 1. > Lessens the chance of a blind or visually impaired pedestrian > misjudging when the walk phase is operating, thereby lessening the > chance of accidentally crossing against a signal. > list end > list of 1 items > 2. > Helps blind and visually impaired pedestrians recognize immediately > when the walk phase begins, permitting them to cross the street in a > timely fashion, thereby lessening the chance of being in the > intersection when the signal changes. > list end > However, it is important to recognize that the APS does not and cannot > assure the blind and visually impaired pedestrians that there will be > no potential traffic conflicts while crossing when the APS is > operating. In particular, the blind and visually impaired pedestrians > should be aware of at least four possible conflicts. > list of 4 items > 1. > Vehicles may be still clearing the intersection when the APS comes on. > 2. > Vehicles may fail to stop for the red light. This is particularly > common for motorists attempting to enter on a yellow light. > 3. > Motorists may stop and make a right turn on red while watching traffic > on their left but may fail to notice pedestrians on their right. > 4. > Vehicles may have right and left turns on the same phase as the > pedestrian. > list end > Because of these potential conflicts, it is important that the blind > or visually impaired traveler exercise due caution for his or her > well-being when crossing a street, whether or not it is equipped with > APS. It is especially important that blind and visually impaired > travelers be properly trained by certified orientation and mobility > specialists in safe travel techniques on the public right-of-way. > EVALUATION PROCEDURE (See attached "Evaluation Form.") The following > basic considerations and evaluation factors shall be utilized to > determine whether a location is eligible to be a candidate for APS and > to determine its relative position on the priority list. Evaluation > and scoring of factors will be conducted by an evaluation team > consisting of a certified orientation-mobility specialist, a visually > impaired/blind traveler and a traffic engineer. Candidate locations > shall be requested by the City of Fresno Disability Advisory > Commission, its working groups, and constituent requests to the ADA Coordinator's office. > Candidate locations will be evaluated by means of the sample > evaluation sheet attached. > I. BASIC CONSIDERATIONS: > APS normally will be considered for installation only if the following > conditions are met: > list of 5 items > A. > Intersections must be signalized. > B. > Signals must be susceptible to retrofitting. > C. > Signals should be equipped with pedestrian signal actuations. (See > also section on "Signals without Pedestrian Actuations.") D. > Location must be suitable to installation of audible signals, in terms > of surrounding land use, noise level and neighborhood acceptance. > E. > There must be a demonstrated need for the audible signals in the form > of a request from an individual or group that would use the audible signal. > list end > II EVALUATION FACTORS > The following factors shall be used to establish a priority listing > for potential audible traffic signal candidates. Candidates will be > arranged in priority order of those with the highest total points (100 > points > maximum) on top and then in descending order. The scoring of factors > will be conducted by an evaluation team consistent of a mobility > specialist, a visually impaired/blind traveler and a traffic engineer. > If the request for an APS was made by a deaf blind individual, or by > representative of an organization serving deaf blind pedestrians in > order to improve access in their geographic area, the evaluation team > may also include a deaf blind rater. The decision whether to include a > deaf blind rater will be made by the City Engineer. > A) Intersection Safety > 1. Accident Records: Past pedestrian accident experience at the > intersection will be used as an indication of potential safety > performance. Points will be based on pedestrian accidents reported by > the City of Fresno's Police Department. > > table with 3 columns and 6 rows > Pedestrian Accidents > Period > Points > 1 > 4 years > 1 > 2 > 4 years > 2 > 3 > 4 years > 3 > 4 > 4 years > 4 > 5 or more > 4 years > 5 > table end > > 2. Intersection Configuration: The number of approaches to an > intersection and their geometric configuration (offset, skewed, etc.) > affect the ability of the blind and visually impaired persons crossing the roadway. > In particular, traffic at 3-leg intersections tends not to provide > adequate audible clues for the blind to permit them to effectively > judge the signal phase. > > table with 2 columns and 6 rows > Configuration > Points > 4-leg right angle intersection > 1 > 3-leg T-intersection > 2 > 3 or 4-leg skewed intersection > 3 > 4-leg offset intersection > 4 > Other complex or multiple leg intersections > 5 > table end > > Note: Intersections with 5 or more legs will require special design. > 3. Intersection Signalization: Pre-timed intersections are the easiest > for blind pedestrian because the phase interval is constant and can be > observed over time. Vehicle actuated intersections are more difficult, > because the pedestrian interval may be of different lengths or skipped > all together. Split-phasing can provide confusing auditory > information, as a traveler may interpret left-turning vehicles as a parallel traffic surge. > > table with 2 columns and 5 rows > Signalization > Points > Pre-timed > 0 > Vehicle Actuated > 2 > Split Phasing > 4 > Exclusive Ped Phase (for future reference) > 5 > table end > > 4. > Width of Crossing: > Wider streets are more difficult for blind travelers to cross. If each > leg of the intersection has a different width, points will be assigned > on the basis of the widest street on which pedestrians are permitted > to cross. > Crossing > width will be measured at the point pedestrians normally cross the street. > Islands > and medians will be included in the total crossing distance even if > they are equipped with separate pedestrian signal actuators. These > points will be apportioned based upon the greatest width of the > crossing at the subject intersection. > > table with 2 columns and 7 rows > Width of Crossing > Points > 40 feet or less > 0 > 40 to 59 feet > 1 > 60 to 79 feet > 2 > 80 to 99 feet > 3 > 100 -119 > 4 > 120 feet or more > 5 > table end > > 5. Vehicle Speed: The speed of approaching traffic reflects the > ability of approaching traffic to stop for a pedestrian clearing the > intersection as the lights change. Audible signals help blind > pedestrians get a timely start at the beginning of the walk phase, > thereby permitting clearing the intersection in a timely manner. > Points are assigned on the basis of the 85 percentile speed on the > fastest approach leg. More points are assigned on the basis of higher speeds. > > table with 2 columns and 6 rows > Speed Range > Points > 0 - 25 mph > 1 > 26 - 30 mph > 2 > 31 - 35 mph > 3 > 36 - 40 mph > 4 > 41 mph or over > 5 > table end > > B. Crosswalk Characteristics > These points will be apportioned based upon the highest-scoring > characteristics of any of the crosswalks at the intersection. For > example, if any of the crosswalks at an intersection have a median > island protruding into an intersection, then the intersection will > receive the two points allotted for that characteristic. > list of 1 items > (a) > Location of Pedestrian Push Button. Pedestrian push buttons that are > too far from the intersection can present difficulties for blind > pedestrians. They may make it harder for an individual to use the > button as a cue for alignment and/or to push the button and cross in > the same cycle. > list end > > table with 2 columns and 4 rows > Location of Pedestrian Actuations > Points > One or more ped pushbuttons located > 10 ft from curb > 1 > One or more ped pushbuttons located > 5 ft from crosswalk extended > 2 > One or more ped pushbuttons out of alignment with direction of travel > 2 > table end > > list of 1 items > (b) > Median Islands Blind pedestrians have difficulties interpreting > traffic clues at medians and islands. Efforts should be made to permit > the blind to cross in one continuous movement. In such cases, signal > timing should be extended to accommodate the full crossing. Divided > streets with or without a pedestrian signal actuator in the median > will be handled as a single crossing, with the width measured across > the entire street. > list end > > table with 2 columns and 2 rows > Median Island > Points > Protruding into crosswalk, or cut through. > 2 > table end > > list of 1 items > (c) > Alignment of Crosswalk. A skewed crosswalk is one in which the > direction of travel on the crosswalk differs from that on the > approaching sidewalk. In this context, skew is not defined as the > angle at which streets intersect. If a blind pedestrian walking a > straight line from the approaching sidewalk is headed toward parallel > traffic lanes, the crosswalk is skewed. If the pedestrian would end up > deviating from the crosswalk, but would still arrive at the opposite > corner, the crosswalk is not defined as skewed for this purpose. > list end > Skewed Crosswalk > 4 > (d) Distance to Alternative APS > > table with 2 columns and 6 rows > Distance to Alternative APS Crosswalk > Points > 1 block > 0 > 2 blocks > 0 > 3 blocks > 2 > 4 blocks > 2 > 5 or more blocks > 3 > table end > > (e) Requests for APS > New requests for APS will be recorded by the ADA Coordinator. > Requestors will be asked to specify the reason for the request (e.g. > proximity on a route to school or work), the difficulty they encounter > at the intersection, and the time of day that presents the greatest > difficulty. This information may be used by the Orientation and > Mobility Evaluation team in assessing the intersection. > > table with 2 columns and 4 rows > APS Requests > Points > 1 request > 1 > 2 recent documented requests > 2 > 3 or more recent, documented requests > 3-4 > table end > > B) Pedestrian Usage > Blind pedestrians share many characteristics with the sighted > population in that they go to public places, business, social, > educational and medical facilities. At the same time they have special > needs. For example, they may have a greater reliance on public > transportation than sighted persons. Audible signals should be placed > with the view of improving mobility of blind persons and making more > facilities accessible to them. Proximity of signals to these > facilities may assure a greater degree of utilization. > list of 1 items > 1. > Proximity to facilities for people who are blind or visually impaired: > This includes the > Department of Rehabilitation, Social Security offices, Valley Center > for the Blind and other similar facilities. Special consideration may > be given to senior citizens complexes or public housing facilities > that have one or more blind or visually impaired persons in residence. > Points are assigned on the basis of blocks or distance (1 block equals > 400 > feet) from proposed APS site to subject facility. The closer the two > are, the more points are assigned. > list end > > table with 2 columns and 6 rows > Proximity > Points > 4 to 6 blocks > 2 > 3 blocks > 4 > 2 blocks > 6 > 1 block > 8 > At subject facility > 10 > table end > > 2. Proximity to key facilities utilized by all pedestrians (blind and > sighted.): This includes > medical, educational, social, recreational, shopping, commercial, > business, public and governmental facilities. Points are assigned on > the basis of blocks or distance (1 block equals 400 feet) from > proposed APS site to subject facility. In case of multiple facilities, > points will be assigned on the basis of the closest facility. > > table with 2 columns and 6 rows > Proximity > Points > 4 to 6 blocks > 1 > 3 blocks > 2 > 2 blocks > 3 > 1 block > 4 > At subject facility > 5 > table end > > 3. Access to public transit: Because blind and visually impaired > persons rely heavily upon public transportation (bus or trolley), > special consideration will be given to those proposed APS sites that > have heavy general use, serves any of the facilities indicated above > (Ref. B-1 and B-2), or serves as a transfer point and serves 2 or more > transit routes within a one-block walking distance. > list of 1 items > a) > Number of transit stops and/or transit routes within one block of > proposed audible signal site. > list end > > table with 2 columns and 6 rows > Number of Routes and Stops > Points > 1 - 2 routes and 1 stop > 1 > 3 or more routes and 1 stop > 2 > 1 - 2 routes and 2 stops > 3 > 3 or more routes and 2 stops > 4 > 2 or more routes and more than 2 stops > 5 > table end > > b) Passenger usage is based upon the total passengers boarding and > debarking each day at a transit stop or transfer point within a > one-block walking distance. > > table with 2 columns and 7 rows > Passengers Boarding and Debarking Each Day Points 0 - 49 0 > 50-149 > 1 > 150-249 > 2 > 250-499 > 3 > 500-999 > 4 > 1,000 and over > 5 > table end > > C) Traffic Conditions > Vehicle volumes, traffic distribution, traffic congestion and flow > characteristics may assist or impede the blind traveler in crossing an > intersection. Blind pedestrians can function best when crossing > signalized intersections that are at right angles with a moderate but > steady flow of traffic through the intersection on each leg and with a > minimum of turning movements (right or left turns). Traffic that stops > on each leg during each signal cycle is particularly helpful. Traffic > that is either light, or very heavy, or erratic in its flow makes it > difficult for the blind traveler to pick up audible clues as to > whether the light is red or green. In such cases, audible signals will > assist in determining when it is possible to cross the street. Points > may be assigned by the evaluation team based upon their perception of > the relative importance of each of these factors (which are not > necessarily dependent upon the total average daily traffic). Candidate > locations may score up to a maximum of 5 points for each of the > following factors depending upon overall traffic distribution. > > table with 3 columns and 6 rows > Heavy Traffic Flow > Vehicles per hour > Points > Approach traffic on all legs is in excess of 2,000 vehicles per hour > during any peak hour. > 2,000 - 2,999 > 1 > Approach traffic on all legs is in excess of 2,000 vehicles per hour > during any peak hour. > 3,000 - 3,999 > 2 > Approach traffic on all legs is in excess of 2,000 vehicles per hour > during any peak hour. > 4,000 - 4,999 > 3 > Approach traffic on all legs is in excess of 2,000 vehicles per hour > during any peak hour. > 5,000 - 5,999 > 4 > Approach traffic on all legs is in excess of 2,000 vehicles per hour > during any peak hour. > 6,000 and over > 5 > table end > > table with 3 columns and 7 rows > Off Peak Traffic Presence Direction 1 > Points > At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, > expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. > Constant (≥ 90%) > 0 > At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, > expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. > Heavy (70-80%) > 1 > At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, > expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. > Moderate (50-60%) > 2 > At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, > expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. > Light (30-40%) > 3 > At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, > expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. > Occasional (<30%) > 4 > At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, > expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. > None (no through lanes to create surge noise. > 5 > table end > > table with 3 columns and 7 rows > Off Peak Traffic Presence > Direction 2 > Points > At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, > expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. > Constant (≥ 90%) > 0 > At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, > expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. > Heavy (70-80%) > 1 > At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, > expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. > Moderate (50-60%) > 2 > At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, > expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. > Light (30-40%) > 3 > At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, > expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. > Occasional (<30%) > 4 > At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, > expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. > None (no through lanes to create surge noise. > 5 > table end > > E.) Mobility Evaluation > Each intersection being considered for audible signals should be > evaluated by a certified orientation and mobility specialist. Based on > the judgment of the O-M specialist and the evaluation team, additional > points may be assigned based on observed or special conditions not > adequately covered by any of the previous factors. This may include a > heavy right-turn volume, right-turn island, right-turn signals, > limited cone of "visibility", etc. > Points > Mobility and miscellaneous factors > 0-15 > Signals without Pedestrian Actuations > Signalized intersections without pedestrian actuations may be > considered for evaluation under this priority system, provided the > following conditions are met: > list of 3 items > 1. > There must be a demonstrated problem or need that can be alleviated by > the installation of an audible signal in the form of a request from an > individual or group that would use the audible signal. > 2. > The evaluation team must unanimously concur with the need. > 3. > Appropriate pedestrian actuation buttons and circuits must be provided > as part of the APS installation. > list end > Accessible Signals at New Signal Installations Accessible signals will > be considered for new signal installation if it is determined that > installation is warranted by the criteria established above. > Public Notice of Installation of Accessible Signals The City > recognizes that the installation of an APS may be of interest to the > community, especially residents in the immediate vicinity of the > candidate intersection. In addition, research has indicated that APS > are more effectively used by blind and visually impaired pedestrians > if they have notice of its location and a basic understanding of the > type of signal installed. > Accordingly, the Director of Public Works will provide a notice to > neighbors in a 350 feet radius from the intersection of the proposed > installation of an APS at that site, and invite concerned citizens to > contact him in writing. In addition, the Department of Public Works > will issue press releases and informing the public and organizations > serving people with disabilities, especially visual impairments, of > type and location of proposed and installed APS. > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jmccarthy%40 > nfb.org > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40s > bcglobal.net > _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jmccarthy%40nfb.org From goldflash9 at sbcglobal.net Sun Mar 15 17:50:48 2009 From: goldflash9 at sbcglobal.net (Sarah Clark) Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 10:50:48 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target References: <549FC55C53E54BA5814FA71C231CE71F@StevePC><489BACB231A24B1494701FE7E81396B8@StevePC> <3C355AFB1ACB43EEBDBD9356D3EFBF38@StevePC> Message-ID: <002c01c9a596$932199a0$6801a8c0@computer2> Sometimes monetary damages are awarded more to try to curb the behavior of the defendent than to award the plaintiff. With a big corporation like Target, the amount needs to be substantial in order to get their attention enough to cause them to change their behavior. I doubt that they'd feel the need to change anything if every claim represented merely $10. $3500 would likely get their attention, however. Its like a smack on the hand, except large companies need a bigger one in order to feel it. Sarah ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. Deeley" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 9:41 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target I understand that, however, I just do not agree with the entire concept of awarding damages in this sort of case. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rod Alcidonis" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 9:27 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target Steve: The effort here was to try to help your understanding and educate your logic, not to justify the existence of the legal system. I am afraid that you are still not willing to accept that "damage" as used in the law is a term of art. Meaning, It has a specific legal definition different from normal use. It is different when you say that "my bicycle was damaged, for example. It is a legal recognition that certain harms should be compensated. In this case, the plaintiffs are being paid not for the fact that they were physically damage in the normal use of the term, but for violations of their civil rights. See Denis' e-mail for what the harm was. In the bicycle example, if someone were to break your bicycle, you can receive "damages" as the cost of repair, or replacement of the bicycle. By the way, you are also entitled to enforce your civil rights if you so choose and receive damages. Not every violations entitle someone to such remedy. When a person cannot get damages under the law, that person has the option of seeking equitable relief in the form of an injunction or restraining order against the defendant. In this case damages was available as a remedy so the plaintiffs are getting money. They are getting paid because their civil rights were violated. I hope this further helps inform your comments. Take care. Rod Alcidonis Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009. Roger Williams University School of Law 10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 Bristol, RI 02809 Cell: 718-704-4651 Home: 401-824-8685 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. Deeley" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 9:22 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target That is a lawyer talking who makes his living in rediculous situations like this one. Again, you show me how an individual was damaged and out $4,000.00. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott C. LaBarre" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 5:38 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target Violation of civil rights has long been recognized as a form of compensible legal damage as well it should be. Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. LaBarre Law Offices P.C. 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 Denver, Colorado 80222 303 504-5979 (voice) 303 757-3640 (fax) slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) www.labarrelaw.com (website) CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. Deeley" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 2:31 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > This is ridiculous! How were these people damaged? > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mehgan Sidhu" > To: > Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 3:20 PM > Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > >> To answer the recent questions posted about the Target case, the final >> settlement hearing took place on March 9th. I understand from our >> counsel in California, Larry Paradis of DRA and Josh Konecky, that there >> were no objectors and the Judge was pleased with the resolution of the >> case. The settlement is not fully "final" until the time for any >> appeals has run - which is about 30 days. Given there were no objectors, >> it is highly unlikely that any appeals will be filed. The judge has not >> yet made a ruling on attorneys fees, but that will not hold up >> enforcement of the settlement. >> >> >> >> As for disbursements, assuming there are no appeals, the claims >> administer has 45 days from the final approval date to disburse funds to >> claimants. I do not know the final tally of approved claimants, though I >> think there were several hundred. I will pass that information along >> when I have it. >> >> >> >> We will now be working on enforcing the settlement commitments that >> Target made with respect to the accessibility of the website. >> >> >> Mehgan Sidhu >> Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP >> 120 East Baltimore Street, Suite 1700 >> Baltimore, Maryland 21202 >> 410-962-1030 x1324 >> 410-385-0869 (fax) >> ms at browngold.com >> www.browngold.com >> >> Confidentiality Notice >> >> This e-mail may contain confidential information that may also be legally >> privileged and that is intended only for the use of the addressee(s) >> named above. If you are not the intended recipient or an authorized >> agent of the recipient, please be advised that any dissemination or >> copying of this e-mail, or taking of any action in reliance on the >> information contained herein, is strictly prohibited. If you have >> received this e-mail in error, please notify me immediately by use of the >> reply button, and then delete the e-mail from your system. Thank you! >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release Date: 03/13/09 > 05:59:00 > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/slabarre%40labarrelaw.com > _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release Date: 03/13/09 05:59:00 _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/2001 - Release Date: 03/14/09 06:54:00 _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/goldflash9%40sbcglobal.net From cdborne at gmail.com Sun Mar 15 17:51:22 2009 From: cdborne at gmail.com (Craig Borne) Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 13:51:22 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Multiple LSAT Scores In-Reply-To: <4F79E4EE98A44E7384EC96CA1D9C82BB@noneeb869fea9a> References: <20090314215724.IUPS15875.fed1rmmtai110.cox.net@fed1rmimpi01.cox.net> <4F79E4EE98A44E7384EC96CA1D9C82BB@noneeb869fea9a> Message-ID: <028501c9a596$a7c91360$7100a8c0@computer> John, I agree. Never in my 3 1/2 years of law school was I asked to calculate how many green M and Ms would fit in a school locker. Craig Craig Borne Baltimore, Maryland "A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial appearance of being right, and raises at first a formidable outcry in defense of custom." --Thomas Paine, Common Sense -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of John Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 6:10 PM To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Multiple LSAT Scores It has been several years since I had the displeasure of taking the LSAT, but something I have always pondered about is this fictional belief that the LSAT score is an accurate predictor of how a student will do in his first year of law school. I personally believe that it is not a predictor of anything, much less, how a person will perform in law school. I am sure that there a thousand studies supporting and refuting this claim. I just find it interesting. Take care, John John A. Ramsey Jr., Esq. Gainesville, FL 32609 Phone: (352) 505-6642 -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Angie Matney Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 5:17 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: [blindlaw] Multiple LSAT Scores Here's what UVA's web site says: What is your policy on multiple LSAT scores? The ABA requires law schools to report LSAT information using an admitted students highest score, so that is the score to which we give the most weight. We evaluate all information submitted as part of the application for admission, however, including all scores earned on the LSAT. Studies by the Law School Admission Council suggest that in most cases the average score is the most accurate predictor of academic performance in the first year of law school, so we encourage applicants with a significant difference in LSAT scores to include with their application any information that may be relevant to the interpretation of test results, such as illness, testing conditions, or other circumstances that may have affected LSAT performance. _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joramsey%40cox.net _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdborne%40gmail.co m From ukekearuaro at valtdnet.com Sun Mar 15 17:54:38 2009 From: ukekearuaro at valtdnet.com (Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc.) Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 11:54:38 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] EMPLOYMENT PRACTICE ATORNEY SOUGHT References: Message-ID: <45F8016BD1A44EB68DCA01987EF191DE@valtd> Hi Everyone: I am seeking for an employment practice attorney (hope i got the term correctly? ) Such an attorney MUST E ABLE TO PRACTICE EMPLOYMENT LAW in the State of Colorado. Please contact me privately by sending E-Mail to: ukekearuaro at valtdnet.com Alternately, referrals toan employment practice attorney in Colorado will be graciously appreciated. Tanks for all help!! Sincerely, Olusegun Denver, Colorado From stevep.deeley at insightbb.com Sun Mar 15 18:56:17 2009 From: stevep.deeley at insightbb.com (Steve P. Deeley) Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 14:56:17 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target In-Reply-To: <572950BB1C7A4653B86DA42CA429C608@spike> References: <549FC55C53E54BA5814FA71C231CE71F@StevePC> <03B8D4FE14404DA090F70CC5A0D9949B@StevePC> <572950BB1C7A4653B86DA42CA429C608@spike> Message-ID: <488509EEF1F84C2F892BBCE66BB15E74@StevePC> I really do understand how the process works. I am looking forward to learning the total amount of damages, including attorneys' fees. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 8:14 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > part of the issue here is that damages awarded to punish businesses for > this > type of inappropriate behavior. it is used as a deterrent to insure that > businesses are made to follow the laws and take civil rights issues > seriously. It is the same principle that courts use for assessing fines > for > drunk driving and other offenses. In order to bring about change you need > to > affect an individual or a business in a way that is effective and awarding > damages is one of the best ways possible. It has become a sound principal > of > law and has been upheld in many court tests both in civil and criminal > cases. > Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal > 1237 P Street > Fresno ca 93721 > 559-266-9237 > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Steve P. Deeley" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 6:25 AM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > >>I want someone to show me how this results in damages of this magnitude. >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Rod Alcidonis" >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 12:24 AM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target >> >> >>> Steve: >>> >>> If you are not an attorney or a law student, we may be arguing and >>> understanding different concepts here. "Damage" is a legal concept, and >>> if >>> not used in that sense can certainly lead to ridiculous understanding. A >>> damage award allows a plaintiff to be compensated for the harm caused by >>> the >>> defendant. Damages take various forms: physical harm, emotional harm, >>> loss >>> wages, etc. Here as Scott said, the legislature has decided to make such >>> civil rights violations compensable as damages. It is a legal >>> recognition >>> that a harm was caused, and it was caused to the plaintiff. The harm >>> here >>> was violations of federal and State civil rights. >>> I hope that helps. >>> >>> Rod Alcidonis >>> Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009. >>> Roger Williams University School of Law >>> 10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 >>> Bristol, RI 02809 >>> Cell: 718-704-4651 >>> Home: 401-824-8685 >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Steve P. Deeley" >>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>> Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 9:20 PM >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target >>> >>> >>>> Well, sign me up. There are dozens of Web sites a year that I can't >>>> access. This is just ridiculous. This is, exactly, what raises the >>>> cost >>>> of doing business for companies. I'm not condoning Target's continuing >>>> unwillingness to deal with their inaccessible >>>> web site, however, there is no way that an individual is damaged to the >>>> tune of $4,000.00. >>>> Steve >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Mehgan Sidhu" >>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>> Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 5:02 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target >>>> >>>> >>>>> Steve, >>>>> >>>>> In addition to the ADA claim, the lawsuit was brought under >>>>> California's >>>>> Unruh Act and Disabled Person's Act, both of which provide for minimum >>>>> statutory damages ($4,000 and $1,000 per violation, respectively). >>>>> Under >>>>> the agreement, members of the California class who are legally blind, >>>>> had >>>>> attempted to use Target.com between February 7, 2003 and December 9, >>>>> 2008, and experienced significant barriers were eligible for damages >>>>> of >>>>> up to $3,500 per violation for a maximum of 2 violations. >>>>> >>>>> A copy of the settlement is available at the following site: >>>>> http://www.nfbtargetlawsuit.com/final_settlement.html >>>>> >>>>> Mehgan Sidhu >>>>> Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP >>>>> 120 East Baltimore Street, Suite 1700 >>>>> Baltimore, Maryland 21202 >>>>> 410-962-1030 x1324 >>>>> 410-385-0869 (fax) >>>>> ms at browngold.com >>>>> www.browngold.com >>>>> >>>>> Confidentiality Notice >>>>> >>>>> This e-mail may contain confidential information that may also be >>>>> legally >>>>> privileged and that is intended only for the use of the addressee(s) >>>>> named above. If you are not the intended recipient or an authorized >>>>> agent of the recipient, please be advised that any dissemination or >>>>> copying of this e-mail, or taking of any action in reliance on the >>>>> information contained herein, is strictly prohibited. If you have >>>>> received this e-mail in error, please notify me immediately by use of >>>>> the >>>>> reply button, and then delete the e-mail from your system. Thank you! >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>>> On >>>>> Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley >>>>> Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 4:31 PM >>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target >>>>> >>>>> This is ridiculous! How were these people damaged? >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Mehgan Sidhu" >>>>> To: >>>>> Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 3:20 PM >>>>> Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> To answer the recent questions posted about the Target case, the >>>>>> final >>>>>> settlement hearing took place on March 9th. I understand from our >>>>>> counsel >>>>>> in California, Larry Paradis of DRA and Josh Konecky, that there were >>>>>> no >>>>>> objectors and the Judge was pleased with the resolution of the case. >>>>>> The >>>>>> settlement is not fully "final" until the time for any appeals has >>>>>> run - >>>>>> which is about 30 days. Given there were no objectors, it is highly >>>>>> unlikely that any appeals will be filed. The judge has not yet made >>>>>> a >>>>>> ruling on attorneys fees, but that will not hold up enforcement of >>>>>> the >>>>>> settlement. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> As for disbursements, assuming there are no appeals, the claims >>>>>> administer >>>>>> has 45 days from the final approval date to disburse funds to >>>>>> claimants. >>>>>> I do not know the final tally of approved claimants, though I think >>>>>> there >>>>>> were several hundred. I will pass that information along when I have >>>>>> it. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> We will now be working on enforcing the settlement commitments that >>>>>> Target >>>>>> made with respect to the accessibility of the website. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Mehgan Sidhu >>>>>> Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP >>>>>> 120 East Baltimore Street, Suite 1700 >>>>>> Baltimore, Maryland 21202 >>>>>> 410-962-1030 x1324 >>>>>> 410-385-0869 (fax) >>>>>> ms at browngold.com >>>>>> www.browngold.com >>>>>> >>>>>> Confidentiality Notice >>>>>> >>>>>> This e-mail may contain confidential information that may also be >>>>>> legally >>>>>> privileged and that is intended only for the use of the addressee(s) >>>>>> named >>>>>> above. If you are not the intended recipient or an authorized agent >>>>>> of >>>>>> the recipient, please be advised that any dissemination or copying of >>>>>> this >>>>>> e-mail, or taking of any action in reliance on the information >>>>>> contained >>>>>> herein, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in >>>>>> error, please notify me immediately by use of the reply button, and >>>>>> then >>>>>> delete the e-mail from your system. Thank you! >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>>>> Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release Date: >>>>> 03/13/09 >>>>> 05:59:00 >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> blindlaw: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ms%40browngold.com >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> blindlaw: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com >>>> >>>> >>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>>> Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release Date: >>>> 03/13/09 >>>> 05:59:00 >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release Date: >> 03/13/09 >> 05:59:00 >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/2001 - Release Date: 03/14/09 06:54:00 From joramsey at cox.net Sun Mar 15 18:57:27 2009 From: joramsey at cox.net (John ) Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 14:57:27 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Multiple LSAT Scores In-Reply-To: <028501c9a596$a7c91360$7100a8c0@computer> Message-ID: <107BE7431F3C4AD3A26E7F337F75568A@noneeb869fea9a> Hello Craig, Nor did it matter which ship could dock at which port on which day. As far as the reading comprehension sections were concerned, the articles were dull and made me sleepy, but did not have any impact on my professor's being equally dull. Take care, John John A. Ramsey Jr., Esq. Gainesville, FL 32609 Phone: (352) 505-6642 -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Craig Borne Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 1:51 PM To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Multiple LSAT Scores John, I agree. Never in my 3 1/2 years of law school was I asked to calculate how many green M and Ms would fit in a school locker. Craig Craig Borne Baltimore, Maryland "A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial appearance of being right, and raises at first a formidable outcry in defense of custom." --Thomas Paine, Common Sense -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of John Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 6:10 PM To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Multiple LSAT Scores It has been several years since I had the displeasure of taking the LSAT, but something I have always pondered about is this fictional belief that the LSAT score is an accurate predictor of how a student will do in his first year of law school. I personally believe that it is not a predictor of anything, much less, how a person will perform in law school. I am sure that there a thousand studies supporting and refuting this claim. I just find it interesting. Take care, John John A. Ramsey Jr., Esq. Gainesville, FL 32609 Phone: (352) 505-6642 -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Angie Matney Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 5:17 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: [blindlaw] Multiple LSAT Scores Here's what UVA's web site says: What is your policy on multiple LSAT scores? The ABA requires law schools to report LSAT information using an admitted students highest score, so that is the score to which we give the most weight. We evaluate all information submitted as part of the application for admission, however, including all scores earned on the LSAT. Studies by the Law School Admission Council suggest that in most cases the average score is the most accurate predictor of academic performance in the first year of law school, so we encourage applicants with a significant difference in LSAT scores to include with their application any information that may be relevant to the interpretation of test results, such as illness, testing conditions, or other circumstances that may have affected LSAT performance. _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joramsey%40cox.net _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdborne%40gmail.co m _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joramsey%40cox.net From stevep.deeley at insightbb.com Sun Mar 15 18:58:10 2009 From: stevep.deeley at insightbb.com (Steve P. Deeley) Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 14:58:10 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target In-Reply-To: <03511FE329E54410AB0E98A49306651B@Scorpio13> References: <549FC55C53E54BA5814FA71C231CE71F@StevePC> <001301c9a442$63a1e180$6401a8c0@server> <588EC588BDA14F18B7560ACF4C83829B@StevePC> <03511FE329E54410AB0E98A49306651B@Scorpio13> Message-ID: I know that. I appreciate all of the great discussion on the matter. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Danielsen" To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 6:02 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > Darn right. Being discriminated against is always psychologically > damaging. > Look, Steve, the idea here is to show Target that it is wrong to > discriminate against blind people. Some greedy corporations don't > understand > anything but money, so the legislature of California decided to impose a > specific cost per claim on them so that they would learn this lesson the > hard way. If corporations only had to payt ten cents every time they > discriminated against somebody, they might figure that it was easier just > to > go right on discriminating. At $4,000 a pop--which isn't much money at all > when you're a company like Target--maybe, just maybe, they'll think twice > about it. > > Chris > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley > Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 9:27 AM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > I'm quite certain there was psychological damage as well, right??? > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Dennis Clark" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 9:15 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > >> They were damaged in that they were not able to place orders on Targets >> website using screen readers. As a result you would have to make >> purchases >> on the Target website using sighted assistance, likely paid assistance, >> or >> you would have to go to a Target store. If retailers like Target do not >> wish to make their websites available to all people, all they need to do >> is >> take the website down, and we can all go to the store in person to make >> our >> purchases. >> All the best, >> Dennis >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Steve P. Deeley" >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 1:31 PM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target >> >> >>> This is ridiculous! How were these people damaged? >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Mehgan Sidhu" >>> To: >>> Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 3:20 PM >>> Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target >>> >>> >>>> To answer the recent questions posted about the Target case, the final >>>> settlement hearing took place on March 9th. I understand from our >>>> counsel in California, Larry Paradis of DRA and Josh Konecky, that >>>> there >>>> were no objectors and the Judge was pleased with the resolution of the >>>> case. The settlement is not fully "final" until the time for any >>>> appeals has run - which is about 30 days. Given there were no >>>> objectors, >>>> it is highly unlikely that any appeals will be filed. The judge has >>>> not >>>> yet made a ruling on attorneys fees, but that will not hold up >>>> enforcement of the settlement. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> As for disbursements, assuming there are no appeals, the claims >>>> administer has 45 days from the final approval date to disburse funds >>>> to >>>> claimants. I do not know the final tally of approved claimants, though >>>> I >>>> think there were several hundred. I will pass that information along >>>> when I have it. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> We will now be working on enforcing the settlement commitments that >>>> Target made with respect to the accessibility of the website. >>>> >>>> >>>> Mehgan Sidhu >>>> Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP >>>> 120 East Baltimore Street, Suite 1700 >>>> Baltimore, Maryland 21202 >>>> 410-962-1030 x1324 >>>> 410-385-0869 (fax) >>>> ms at browngold.com >>>> www.browngold.com >>>> >>>> Confidentiality Notice >>>> >>>> This e-mail may contain confidential information that may also be >>>> legally >>>> privileged and that is intended only for the use of the addressee(s) >>>> named above. If you are not the intended recipient or an authorized >>>> agent of the recipient, please be advised that any dissemination or >>>> copying of this e-mail, or taking of any action in reliance on the >>>> information contained herein, is strictly prohibited. If you have >>>> received this e-mail in error, please notify me immediately by use of >>>> the >>>> reply button, and then delete the e-mail from your system. Thank you! >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in > sightbb.com >>> >>> >>> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---- >>> >>> >>> >>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>> Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release Date: >>> 03/13/09 >>> 05:59:00 >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dennisgclark%40sbc > global.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in > sightbb.com > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release Date: 03/13/09 > 05:59:00 > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. > com > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature > database 3936 (20090313) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature > database 3936 (20090313) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/2001 - Release Date: 03/14/09 06:54:00 From stevep.deeley at insightbb.com Sun Mar 15 18:58:35 2009 From: stevep.deeley at insightbb.com (Steve P. Deeley) Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 14:58:35 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target In-Reply-To: <20090314215546.GF82715@yumi.bluecherry.net> References: <549FC55C53E54BA5814FA71C231CE71F@StevePC> <489BACB231A24B1494701FE7E81396B8@StevePC> <78726D7BDC0D4E1EBBAE1E83A3D6FE14@StevePC> <20090314215546.GF82715@yumi.bluecherry.net> Message-ID: Nope. ----- Original Message ----- From: "T. Joseph Carter" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 5:55 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > Steve, > > I think you missed the whole point of what statutory damages are for. > > If I am doing something that could cost me $4,000 per person, per > incident, I'm not very likely to do it am I? California's lawmakers > (who arguably spend too much time in the Marijuana clinics if you > look at some of the hair-brained things they've tried to make law) > have decided to make the minimum amount of damage be $4,000 so that > people will not discriminate. Their thinking was that this was high > enough to convince them not to do it--or failing that a couple of > really high profile cases like ours with Target would make people > think twice. > > You can whine about the injustice of a huge cash payout to those > blind Californians lucky enough to have attempted to use Target's > website, but the fact remains that the payout is essentially how the > California government has decided to punish discrimination. > > I say good for them. If discrimination can be proven 36 years after > the Rehab Act and 18 years after the ADA, then obviously some people > stubbornly refuse to get the message. > > Joseph > > On Sat, Mar 14, 2009 at 09:24:24AM -0400, Steve P. Deeley wrote: >> That should not result in you receiving damages of almost $4,000.00. > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/2001 - Release Date: 03/14/09 06:54:00 From ukekearuaro at valtdnet.com Sun Mar 15 19:28:53 2009 From: ukekearuaro at valtdnet.com (Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc.) Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 13:28:53 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] CURRENCY IDENTIFICATION IMPLEMENTATION References: <33F75BFED8B0464E98F88836186BA75481CCED@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local> Message-ID: <27C60A2B4C174997AB3E3F73451B21C5@valtd> Hi Everyone: Does anyone have an idea when the Treasury Department will begin implementation of the currency identification by the blind? It is my understanding that the Court of Appeals DID REAFFIRM the lower court's position on the subject. How long does it take from the time of reaffirmation until final implementation? Mega thanks for any pointers!! Sincerely, Olusegun Denver, Colorado From JMcCarthy at nfb.org Sun Mar 15 19:43:17 2009 From: JMcCarthy at nfb.org (McCarthy, Jim) Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 15:43:17 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Multiple LSAT Scores In-Reply-To: <028501c9a596$a7c91360$7100a8c0@computer> Message-ID: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6B26D66D@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local> I take Craig's point, but I do think that the logic games or whatever they are called may actually measure one's ability to apply conditions. And though I hated those questions and found them difficult as a blind person not to mention just weird, I think that properly using conditions may be a valuable thing to do in law school and beyond as a lawyer. Now to the real point though, I imagine that regardless what the studies say about the predictive power of the LSAT, the one thing it possibly can do is rank candidates. There is so much variability among the higher education institutions of this country that grades are probably somewhat meaningless because we really don't know what kind of effort a student must put forward to get a particular grade at any particular institution. The possible answer to this is to make us all take the same dull test and compare us that way. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Craig Borne Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 1:51 PM To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Multiple LSAT Scores John, I agree. Never in my 3 1/2 years of law school was I asked to calculate how many green M and Ms would fit in a school locker. Craig Craig Borne Baltimore, Maryland "A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial appearance of being right, and raises at first a formidable outcry in defense of custom." --Thomas Paine, Common Sense -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of John Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 6:10 PM To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Multiple LSAT Scores It has been several years since I had the displeasure of taking the LSAT, but something I have always pondered about is this fictional belief that the LSAT score is an accurate predictor of how a student will do in his first year of law school. I personally believe that it is not a predictor of anything, much less, how a person will perform in law school. I am sure that there a thousand studies supporting and refuting this claim. I just find it interesting. Take care, John John A. Ramsey Jr., Esq. Gainesville, FL 32609 Phone: (352) 505-6642 -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Angie Matney Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 5:17 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: [blindlaw] Multiple LSAT Scores Here's what UVA's web site says: What is your policy on multiple LSAT scores? The ABA requires law schools to report LSAT information using an admitted students highest score, so that is the score to which we give the most weight. We evaluate all information submitted as part of the application for admission, however, including all scores earned on the LSAT. Studies by the Law School Admission Council suggest that in most cases the average score is the most accurate predictor of academic performance in the first year of law school, so we encourage applicants with a significant difference in LSAT scores to include with their application any information that may be relevant to the interpretation of test results, such as illness, testing conditions, or other circumstances that may have affected LSAT performance. _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joramsey%40cox .net _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdborne%40gmai l.co m _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jmccarthy%40nf b.org From stevep.deeley at insightbb.com Sun Mar 15 20:11:53 2009 From: stevep.deeley at insightbb.com (Steve P. Deeley) Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 16:11:53 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target In-Reply-To: <000401c9a584$dca448f0$95ecdad0$@net> References: <7DF12D30A7294ADEAA75754CE0751C02@labarre> <000401c9a584$dca448f0$95ecdad0$@net> Message-ID: I agree with that. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Spiry" To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 11:44 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target The world is unfortunately full of slow learners. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of James Pepper Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 11:41 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target Scott: What I do not get is why these companies are willing to go to court and spend all this money and put themselves into so much risk, when the solutions to these problems are actually just a matter of rolling up the sleeves and rebuilding the website. For instance I just took a look at the Target website. Right now as I type this it has 940 errors in its HTML code and 109 warnings according to the World Wide Web Consortium which sets the international standards the codes used to write websites. This is appalling! Their CSS errors are 38 errors, and 335 warnings. This means that they are not even up to the international standards for writing code properly. There is no excuse for this! The LSAT is using the wrong program to make their PDF files. They are using a program that fragments the content into such tiny pieces that the text cannot be put back together again. It is all gibberish. But this can be fixed! What I do not get is why this is such a problem for people to make their websites accessible? Why are they willing to fight in court, spend millions of dollars in settlement when the solutions are right in front of them! I am just amazed at the waste! James Pepper On Sat, Mar 14, 2009 at 9:19 PM, Scott C. LaBarre wrote: > The standards used are those of WCAG and Sec. 508. I did not work directly > on Target and cannot tell you exactly the access barriers. I can tell you > that with respect to filing applications to law schools through LSAC on > their website, it is impossible to fill those applications out independently > using screen reading softaware. Let me also assure list members that we > don't simply jump on a website, encounter difficulty, and then sue them the > next day. A lawsuit is the last resort when the entity is not willing to > deal with us otherwise. Just because we are a small minority does not mean > that our right to the mainstream of society must always be subservient to > the majority's unwillingness to consider us due to our small numbers. > Unless someone has a new point to be made on this topic, I respectfully > suggest that we move onto different discussions. Let's also agree to > disagree on certain points. > Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. > > LaBarre Law Offices P.C. > 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 > Denver, Colorado 80222 > 303 504-5979 (voice) > 303 757-3640 (fax) > slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) > www.labarrelaw.com (website) > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and > privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not > read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message > in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or > slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. This > message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic > Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Orozco" > To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" > Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 8:52 AM > > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > > What troubles me is that my question of accessibility standards has not > been > answered on the other case against the LSAC. The same question is > applicable here. What standard was used to conclude that the web site was > not accessible? I do not claim to be a genius at manipulating technology > to > serve my needs, but I did not have to try hard at all to make Target give > me > what I needed between 2005 and 2008. So is the problem the web site > layout, > or is it our own technology training? Rather than chase every entity with > features a few people deem inaccessible, would it not be prudent to take > our > standards, whatever those may be, to the classroom, to the software > developers, the relevant associations raising the performance standards of > its students and members? This method of engineering change gives us the > perception of a watchdog group. If this is what we have become, and given > the small margin of the population we represent, I would rather trigger > change at the source rather than at the output. > > Joe Orozco > > "A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the > crowd."--Max Lucado > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley > Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 9:24 AM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > That should not result in you receiving damages of almost $4,000.00. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 4:35 AM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > > As an individual I am insulted and damaged each time I am > discriminated by a > business not accommodating my ability to access their products > and services, > especially on the Internet when I have made sure that I have > accommodated > myself with the most up-to-date software to mitigate my needs as a blind > person. I should not have to rely on sighted assistance to use > a product or > do without because the greedy corporations has chosen the most expedient > road to sell their products. I am also insulted that you are > posting this > question. I have in my life time been sold out by too many > blind people that > thought they knew what I needed and I hope more companies will > have to pay > damages in these types of cases. Perhaps they will then learn > how to meet > the needs of all their customers. Fortunately here in California we have > some laws with some teeth in them that are > enforceable--although these teeth > still need a good sharpening. > Chuck > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. Deeley" < > stevep.deeley at insightbb.com> > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 6:22 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > > That is a lawyer talking who makes his living in rediculous > situations like > this one. Again, you show me how an individual was damaged and out > $4,000.00. > Steve > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott C. LaBarre" < > slabarre at labarrelaw.com> > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 5:38 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > > Violation of civil rights has long been recognized as a form of > compensible > legal damage as well it should be. > Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. > > LaBarre Law Offices P.C. > 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 > Denver, Colorado 80222 > 303 504-5979 (voice) > 303 757-3640 (fax) > slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) > www.labarrelaw.com (website) > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential > and privileged > information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read, > copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in > error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or > slabarre at labarrelaw.com, > and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and > any attachments > are covered by the Electronic > Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. Deeley" < > stevep.deeley at insightbb.com> > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 2:31 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > > This is ridiculous! How were these people damaged? >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mehgan Sidhu" >> To: >> Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 3:20 PM >> Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target >> >> >> To answer the recent questions posted about the Target case, >>> >> the final > >> settlement hearing took place on March 9th. I understand from our >>> counsel in California, Larry Paradis of DRA and Josh >>> >> Konecky, that there > >> were no objectors and the Judge was pleased with the >>> >> resolution of the > >> case. The settlement is not fully "final" until the time for any >>> appeals has run - which is about 30 days. Given there were >>> >> no objectors, > >> it is highly unlikely that any appeals will be filed. The >>> >> judge has not > >> yet made a ruling on attorneys fees, but that will not hold up >>> enforcement of the settlement. >>> >>> >>> >>> As for disbursements, assuming there are no appeals, the claims >>> administer has 45 days from the final approval date to >>> >> disburse funds to > >> claimants. I do not know the final tally of approved >>> >> claimants, though I > >> think there were several hundred. I will pass that information along >>> when I have it. >>> >>> >>> >>> We will now be working on enforcing the settlement commitments that >>> Target made with respect to the accessibility of the website. >>> >>> >>> Mehgan Sidhu >>> Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP >>> 120 East Baltimore Street, Suite 1700 >>> Baltimore, Maryland 21202 >>> 410-962-1030 x1324 >>> 410-385-0869 (fax) >>> ms at browngold.com >>> www.browngold.com >>> >>> Confidentiality Notice >>> >>> This e-mail may contain confidential information that may >>> >> also be legally > >> privileged and that is intended only for the use of the addressee(s) >>> named above. If you are not the intended recipient or an authorized >>> agent of the recipient, please be advised that any dissemination or >>> copying of this e-mail, or taking of any action in reliance on the >>> information contained herein, is strictly prohibited. If you have >>> received this e-mail in error, please notify me immediately >>> >> by use of the > >> reply button, and then delete the e-mail from your system. >>> >> Thank you! > >> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep > .deeley%40insightbb.com > >> >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------------- > >> >> >> >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release >> > Date: 03/13/09 > >> 05:59:00 >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/slabar > re%40labarrelaw.com > >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep > .deeley%40insightbb.com > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------------- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release > Date: 03/13/09 > 05:59:00 > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugm > an%40sbcglobal.net > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep > .deeley%40insightbb.com > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------------- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release > Date: 03/13/09 > 05:59:00 > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jsoroz > co%40gmail.com > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of > virus signature database 3936 (20090313) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature > database 3936 (20090313) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/slabarre%40labarre law.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b75205%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/bspiry%40comcast.n et _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/2001 - Release Date: 03/14/09 06:54:00 From stevep.deeley at insightbb.com Sun Mar 15 20:56:08 2009 From: stevep.deeley at insightbb.com (Steve P. Deeley) Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 16:56:08 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] LSAC Reader Settlement In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Rod, How would you suggest that I approach a bank who has a Web site that is not quite accessible. They want the user to type in a random code. Of course, the Window-eyes will not read the code. I've talked with them twice and they can't seem to understand how to fix the problem. I'm planning to have a AT professional speak with them in the near future. I really don't want to seem adversarial when I speak with them again. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rod Alcidonis" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 10:02 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAC Reader Settlement >I only hope that for that reason, Angie, that any settlement with them this > time has more teeth. Otherwise, we will be in the same place 5-10 years > down > the road. The LSAC has demonstrated times and again that they are not an > entity willing to abide by legal obligations. Not only in not publishing > their reader policy to test takers but in granting other accommodations -- > where there is no standard to guide the process. I had accommodations that > were granted to me because of blindness and denied to others also because > of > blindness. > > Rod Alcidonis > Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009. > Roger Williams University School of Law > 10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 > Bristol, RI 02809 > Cell: 718-704-4651 > Home: 401-824-8685 > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Angie Matney" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 6:41 AM > Subject: [blindlaw] LSAC Reader Settlement > > >> Did LSAC ever put anything up on their site concerning their reader >> policy? If memory serves, you had to request that this info be sent to >> you >> when I was applying. >> >> Angie >> >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/2001 - Release Date: 03/14/09 06:54:00 From stephanie_enyart at yahoo.com Sun Mar 15 21:32:15 2009 From: stephanie_enyart at yahoo.com (Stephanie Enyart) Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 14:32:15 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. lsac complaint In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000501c9a5b5$c00dc000$0401a8c0@DF5R2QD1> Dear Bill, I have a few suggestions for your LSAT preparation. 1) Consider buying a test prep course. Although they are costly, often they are worth it. Nearly all the students at my law school took prep courses and TestMasters was the most popular company. I did TestMasters and bought some individual tutoring to figure out how to address some of my disability-related needs. I know several blind law students/lawyers who used TestMasters or Kaplan. Both of these companies have experience dealing with blind students and can give you electronic copies of all their test material. One of the major distinctions between then is that TestMasters only uses former LSAT questions where Kaplan writes their own practice questions. The result is that if you took TestMasters, the practice material that is currently inaccessible and sold on the LSAC website is made accessible as a TestMasters student. Depending on what state you live in, I recommend working with Vocational Rehab to have this paid for as part of your voc rehab plan. 2) Convert the printed material sold by LSAT into accessible format. I'm unsure of whether you own a scanner and software like Kurzweil or Open book but you could scan any practice tests you buy from LSAC.org and make them accessible that way. If you don’t have a scanner and software, I highly recommend getting them before law school because they are extremely handy for bridging the gap between what your school can provide and what you need (like scanning any paper based items the school won't provide in electronic format). If this isn't possible right now, try to find a blind center (one of NFB's, a Lighthouse for the Blind, or even independent living center) where you could go and scan this. You could even turn to a local NFB chapter to see if there are any members who would allow you to use their assistive technology. 3) Borrow Braille practice tests from LSAC. I'm not sure if you're a Braille user but LSAC has around 9 practice tests that you can borrow three at a time once you've submitted your documentation for disability accommodations for the LSAT. This isn’t advertised or explained anywhere in their materials but if you call them and tell them you "know" there is a program to loan Braille tests, they won't deny this request. But there are a few things that make this option not ideal. Fist, there are only a few tests and generally people take a ton of them so it isn't a complete solution. Then, the really quirky thing about these tests is that they aren't titled -- they're lacking the title of which test you are actually taking (e.g. the June 2000 test or February 1999 test). If you're studying pretty hard and taking lots of practice tests, it is a pretty big bummer to plan to take a 7 plus hour practice test to then find out the one you're taking is one you've already done and you recognize the questions or you are taking a very old test that strays from how they're testing today. Plus, few blind people opt to take the test in Braille anyway -- roughly 5 a year -- so you might not want to practice in Braille if you aren't planning to take it in that medium. 4) Search Bookshare.org or RFBD for recent LSAT test prep material. Although I haven't checked lately, I know bookshare had some scanned versions of Kaplan materials. Just make sure you get something recent though because the test has evolved over time. I spoke with the head of Bookshare last week and they're very aware of the LSAT materials problem -- we just need a recent LSAT test taker who is a member of Bookshare to post their accessible stuff on that site . . . anyone out there? 5) Work with a reader to access printed material. Although this isn't the easiest thing to do, nor the cheapest, it may be the only option for you. Plus, if you are planning to take the test with one of their live readers, being used to practicing that way is helpful. If this is your method, certainly make sure you spend time advocating for Rehab to pay for it. I think I racked up around $7000 in reader fees when I was practicing (this was before TestMasters had electronic access to their materials so all my TestMasters homework was done with readers too). Remember, there has been at least one blind test taker who has successfully been granted the accommodation of taking the test on a computer with Jaws so if you want that, you'll need to fight for it and you might really want to do all your studying or as much as possible, in the medium you're going to use on test day. I hope this helps. I've done quite a bit of research on LSAT/law school admissions issues so don't hesitate to contact me off-list if you have any questions along the way. Best of luck in your studies, Stephanie Enyart -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Rod Alcidonis Sent: Thursday, March 12, 2009 11:32 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. lsac complaint Well, academically speaking, the law suit could have prayed for a Temporary Restraining Order, or a preliminary Injunction against the LSAC for folks like you. Basically enjoined the LSAC from administering the exam until they make the changes. The only difficulty with that I think justifies the reason they probably did not pray for such a relief is that such a measure would cause too much harm to the public, I.E, the thousands of law students and schools who rely on the exam to make admissions decisions. Such an order while it would have forced the LSAC to make the changes much faster, it would have unreasonably halted the system for some times. If it were a class action with thousands of members, it probably would have been easier to argue, I think. Whether not passing an exam for the first time is considered irreparable harm is another question -- you can still make the argument under these circumstances. Rod Alcidonis Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009. Roger Williams University School of Law 10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 Bristol, RI 02809 Cell: 718-704-4651 Home: 401-824-8685 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Spiry" To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2009 9:52 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. lsac complaint I understand. What might be done to getLSAC to authorize use of this material as an accessible alternative to what they have to offer? I know NFB is sueing them, but in the mean time that leaves folks like me who don't have the Adobe skills you have, and facing the LSAT soon without accessible matter. Any ideas or suggestions? Thanks. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of James Pepper Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 10:43 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. lsac complaint Well Bill the content is copyrighted by LSAC so I am not sure I can send this to you. Perhaps some on this list can give that advice. I laid it out properly. James On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 9:05 AM, Bill Spiry wrote: > I would appreciate receiving this as well. Thanks. > bspiry at comcast.net > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of James Pepper > Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 1:46 AM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. lsac complaint > > Scott: I laid out the first section of the LSAT to be accessible and I > can > send you the files if you would like to see it. Also I made the form that > they use accessible so the blind can fill out the test without assistance. > This works with JAWS and Window Eyes and a combination of Adobe's Read out > Loud and Microsoft Narrator. My process works and if you need references > at > NFB, AFB and the AAPD I can send them to you. > > It took a while to figure out how they made thier pdfs and I know where > they > are making their mistakes. I can correct this problem. These PDFs are made > to work natively with JAWS and Adobe Reader and the other screen readers > without making any adjustments. They work with the default settings in > Adobe Reader. > > Also the forms can be digitally signed and saved and all that fancy stuff > that you expect with Adobe Acrobat Professional can be done with > Adobe Reader, versions 8 or 9 which is the free download from Adobe.com. > So > we can make the LSAT accessible to anyone with a PC running Windows XP Or > VIsta without any change of settings. This means the PC can be there for > the sighted and the blind, with equal access for all. > > Also since I labeled everything, it will be a lot quicker for you to fill > out this test! > > Sincerely, > > James G. Pepper > > > > On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 4:32 PM, Scott C. LaBarre > wrote: > > > Below I am sharing the complaint that we filed today in California Court. > > ************** > > LaurEnce W. paradis (California Bar No. 122336) > > > > Anna levine (California Bar No. 227881) > > > > Disability Rights Advocates > > > > 2001 Center Street, Third Floor > > > > Berkeley, California 94704 > > > > Telephone: (510) 665-8644 > > > > Facsimile: (510) 665-8511 > > > > TTY: (510) 665-8716 > > > > > > > > SCOTT LABARRE (to seek pro hac vice admission) > > > > LABARRE LAW OFFICES, P.C. > > > > 1660 S. Albion Street, Ste 918 > > > > Denver, Colo 80222 > > > > Telephone: (303) 504-5979 > > > > Fax: (303) 757-3640 > > > > > > > > DANIEL F. GOLDSTEIN (to seek pro hac vice admission) > > > > MEHGAN Sidhu (to seek pro hac vice admission) > > > > Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP > > > > 120 E. Baltimore St., Suite 1700 > > > > Baltimore, MD 21202 > > > > Telephone: (410) 962-1030 > > > > Fax: (410) 385-0869 > > > > > > > > SUPERIOR COURT OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA > > COUNTY OF ALAMEDA > > > > > > > > National Federation of the Blind, the National Federation of the > Blind > > of CALIFORNIA, and DEEPA GORAYA, > > > > > > > > Plaintiffs, > > > > v. > > > > LAW SCHOOL ADMISSION COUNCIL, INC., > > > > Defendant. > > > > > > > > Case No.: > > > > > > > > > > > > COMPLAINT FOR INJUNCTIVE AND DECLARATORY RELIEF FOR VIOLATIONS OF > THE > > CALIFORNIA DISABLED PERSONS ACT AND UNRUH CIVIL RIGHTS ACT > > > > > > > > > > INTRODUCTION > > > > Plaintiffs complain of Defendant and allege herein as follows: > > > > 1. This action, brought by the National Federation of the Blind, > > the National Federation of the Blind of California, and Deepa Goraya, > seeks > > to put an end to civil rights violations committed by defendant Law > School > > Admissions Council (hereafter "LSAC") against blind persons seeking to > take > > the LSAT exam and apply to law schools. Plaintiff Deepa Goraya, a blind > law > > school applicant in California, has been and is being denied equal access > to > > the accommodations, advantages, and facilities LSAC provides its > > non-disabled customers through http://www.lsac.org (hereafter "lsac.org" > > and "the website"). Plaintiffs National Federation of the Blind and the > > National Federation of the Blind of California have members who are > > similarly denied full and equal access to such accommodations, advantages > > and facilities. Lsac.org is currently the only place online where > > prospective law students can register for the Law School Admissions Test > > ("LSAT"), apply to law schools, and obtain official LSAT test preparation > > materials and information. Lsac.org contains multiple access barriers > that > > make it difficult if not impossible for blind law school applicants and > LSAT > > test takers to use the website and to obtain practice materials without > > sighted assistance. LSAC thus excludes the blind, including Ms. Goraya, > > from full and equal access to the accommodations, advantages, facilities, > > and privileges of lsac.org. > > > > JURISDICTION > > > > 2. This is a civil action under California's Disabled Persons Act > > (Cal. Civ. Code §§ 54, et seq.) and the Unruh Civil Rights Act (Cal. Civ. > > Code §§ 51, et seq.) and for declaratory relief. This Court has > > jurisdiction over the claims alleged herein pursuant to California Civil > > Code §§ 54, et seq. and California Civil Code §§ 51, et seq. and > California > > Code of Civil Procedure section 1060. > > > > 3. This Court has jurisdiction over LSAC because LSAC is a > > corporation authorized to do business in California and LSAC conducts > > substantial business in California. LSAC owns, maintains and operates its > > website, lsac.org, throughout California and in Alameda County. > > > > > > > > VENUE > > > > 4. Venue is proper in Alameda County because liability arises in > > part in Alameda County, where the National Federation of the Blind of > > California has its headquarters. LSAC has been and is committing the > acts > > alleged herein in Alameda County, has been and is violating the rights of > > patrons in Alameda County, and has been and is causing injury to patrons > in > > Alameda County. > > > > 5. Plaintiff Goraya is a California citizen and has experienced > > injury in California as a result of LSAC's inaccessible website and > practice > > materials. > > > > PARTIES > > > > 6. Plaintiff the National Federation of the Blind (hereafter > "NFB") > > is a national advocacy organization. The NFB, the oldest and largest > > national organization of blind persons, is a non-profit corporation duly > > organized under the laws of the District of Columbia with its principal > > place of business in Baltimore, Maryland. It has affiliates in all 50 > > states (including California) as well as Washington, D.C. and Puerto > Rico. > > The vast majority of the approximately 50,000 members are blind persons. > > The NFB is widely recognized by the public, Congress, executive agencies > of > > government and the courts as a collective and representative voice on > behalf > > of blind Americans and their families. The purpose of the NFB is to > promote > > the general welfare of the blind by (1) assisting the blind in their > efforts > > to integrate themselves into society on terms of equality and (2) > removing > > barriers and changing social attitudes, stereotypes and mistaken beliefs > > that sighted and blind persons hold concerning the limitations created by > > blindness resulting in the denial of opportunity to blind persons in > > virtually every sphere of life. The NFB and many of its members have > long > > been actively involved in promoting adaptive technology for the blind, so > > that blind persons can live and work independently in today's > > technology-dependent world. NFB members reside throughout the United > > States, including the state of California, and many of its members would > use > > the services of lsac.org if this website is made independently usable by > > the blind. > > > > 7. Plaintiff the National Federation of the Blind of California > > (hereafter "NFB of California") is a state affiliate of the National > > Federation of the Blind. NFB of California is a California corporation > and > > carries out NFB's objectives at the state level. It has local chapters > > throughout California, including Alameda County, and has its headquarters > in > > Fremont, California, in Alameda County. > > > > 8. Plaintiff Goraya is a member of the NFB and the NFB of > > California. She is blind and has been denied full and equal access to > the > > accommodations, advantages, facilities and privileges of lsac.org. > > > > 9. Defendant LSAC, is a non-profit corporation > > established to coordinate, facilitate, and enhance the law school > admissions > > process. LSAC owns, operates and/or maintains the website lsac.com, a > > public accommodation. Plaintiffs seek access to the services provided by > > LSAC in California through lsac.org. > > > > FACTS > > > > 10. Lsac.org is owned, controlled and/or operated by LSAC. > Lsac.org > > is a public accommodation that offers its visitors comprehensive services > > for applying to law school. The website functions as the official > > destination for guiding prospective law school applicants through the > > fundamental steps of applying to law school. Among its services, > lsac.orgoffers information about the LSAT and law school application > process, and > > extensive LSAT preparation materials and resources. Lsac.org also serves > as > > the exclusive online means for registering for the LSAT and applying to > > ABA-accredited law schools. > > > > 11. According to the website, lsac.org's online services enable > > prospective law students to do the following, among other things: > > > > a.. Register for the LSAT > > b.. Register for the LSDAS (Law School Data Assembly Service) > > c.. Purchase publications and test preparation materials > > d.. Have access to electronic applications for all ABA-approved law > > schools > > e.. Apply online to law schools > > f.. Register for law school forums > > g.. Have 24-hour file access > > 12. In addition to facilitating the LSAT and law school application > > processes, a significant portion of the lsac.org website is devoted to > > preparing students to take the LSAT. Among the services offered in that > > regard are online information guides that explain how to prepare for the > > LSAT and free, downloadable sample practice tests and test questions. > > Lsac.org also offers for a fee an online LSAT practice test tool and the > > opportunity to purchase more than 40 official LSAT practice tests. > > > > 13. While sighted visitors to lsac.org can easily obtain the benefits > and > > advantages offered by the website, blind individuals, including Ms. > Goraya, > > have been and are being denied access to lsac.org due to LSAC's failure > > and refusal to remove access barriers to lsac.org. Specifically, blind > > visitors to the website, including Ms. Goraya, cannot independently apply > to > > law school, register for the LSAT, or obtain in an accessible format the > > LSAT preparation materials and practice tests available through lsac.org > . > > > > 14. The blind access websites by using keyboards in conjunction > with > > screen-reading software. This software vocalizes or conveys to a > refreshable > > Braille display information that appears visually on a computer screen. > > Unless websites are designed to allow for use in this manner, blind > persons > > are unable to fully access the internet websites and the information, > > products and services contained therein. > > > > 15. There are well-established guidelines for making websites > > accessible to the blind. These guidelines have been in place for at > least > > several years and have been followed successfully by other public > > accommodations in making their online services accessible. The Web > > Accessibility Initiative (WAI), a project of the World Wide Web > Consortium, > > which is the leading standards organization for the Web, has developed > > guidelines for making information that is reached via the internet > > accessible. The federal government has also promulgated accessibility > > standards under Section 508 of the Rehabilitation Act. These guidelines > > have long been readily available via the internet so that any public > > accommodation could easily secure the necessary information. > > > > 16. Lsac.org contains a variety of access barriers that prevent > free > > and full use by blind persons using keyboards and screen reading > software. > > These barriers include but are not limited to: lack of or improperly > > labeled form controls; faulty keyboard navigation; and use of tables and > > charts that are not formatted for accessibility. Form controls allow > users > > to input data on online forms and applications. These controls must be > > coded and labeled to allow screen-access software to detect and vocalize > the > > requested information. Keyboard navigation refers to the ability to > > successfully navigate a website using keyboard commands, as opposed to > > requiring a mouse as the exclusive means for navigation of the site. > > Further, charts and tables must be formatted to work with screen-access > > software. Much of the lsac.org website, and in particular the online > law > > school application and LSAT registration sections of the website, lack > these > > fundamental accessibility components. As a result, blind visitors to the > > website cannot independently use those and other critical features. > > > > 17. Lsac.org's test preparation materials that are available on the > > website in Adobe Portable Document (PDF) format, are not properly > "tagged." > > This means that the headings, paragraphs, tables, image descriptions and > > form controls are not easily discernable to screen-reading software. As > a > > result, these materials are cumbersome, if not impossible, for a blind > > visitor to navigate. > > > > 18. Finally, lsac.org fails to offer LSAT practice tests, > available > > as part of its test preparation services, in formats accessible to the > > blind. While the sighted can easily use the website to obtain more than > 40 > > formerly administered LSAT practice tests, the website fails to offer the > > opportunity to purchase these practice materials in formats accessible to > > the blind, such as Braille or an accessible electronic format. > > > > 19. As a result of lsac.org's accessibility barriers, blind law > > school applicants, including Ms. Goraya, must go over extraordinary > hurdles > > to register and prepare for the LSAT and to apply to law school compared > to > > their sighted counterparts. After unsuccessfully attempting to use > > lsac.org independently to register for the LSAT and fill out her law > > school applications, for example, Plaintiff Goraya was forced to select > and > > rely upon a reader for over 50 hours simply to read aloud the content of > the > > website and complete her law school applications. Moreover, none of the > > LSAT practice materials, which include previously administered versions > of > > the test, were available to her in accessible electronic formats. > Lsac.org > > thus contains numerous access barriers which deny full and equal access > to > > Plaintiff, who would otherwise use the accommodations, advantages, and > > facilities of lsac.org. > > > > 20. On December 10, 2008, Plaintiff National Federation of the > Blind > > notified LSAC of the unlawful accessibility barriers on its website. > LSAC > > responded by setting up and then canceling a meeting with the NFB. On > > January 22, 2009, the NFB notified LSAC that it intended to pursue legal > > action against LSAC for the unlawful barriers on its website. > > > > FIRST CAUSE OF ACTION > > > > (Violation of Cal. Civ. Code §§ 54, et seq. - the Disabled Persons Act) > > > > 21. The allegations contained in the previous paragraphs are > > incorporated by reference. > > > > 22. The Disabled Persons Act ("DPA") requires that individuals with > > disabilities have "full and equal access, as other members of the general > > public, to accommodations, advantages, facilities, . . . and other places > to > > which the general public is invited, subject only to the conditions and > > limitations established by law, or state or federal regulation, and > > applicable alike to all persons." Cal. Civ. Code 54.1(a)(1). > > > > 23. Lsac.org, which is owned, operated and/or maintained by LSAC, > is > > an > > > > accommodation, advantage, facility and/or place to which the general > public > > is invited, as those terms are used in Cal. Civ. Code § 54.1(a)(1). > > > > 24. Defendant's conduct alleged herein violates the DPA, including > > Cal. Civ. Code § 54.1(a)(1), by denying the Plaintiffs full and equal > access > > to the accommodations, advantages and facilities of lsac.org. > > > > 25. As a result of Defendant's conduct, the NFB, the NFB of > > California, and Ms. Goraya are entitled to injunctive relief requiring > > Defendant to make lsac.org accessible to blind individuals, and to make > > the LSAT test practice materials offered to lsac.org patrons available > to > > blind people in an accessible format. > > > > SECOND CAUSE OF ACTION > > > > (Violation of Cal.Civ. Code §§ 51, et seq. - The Unruh Act) > > > > 26. The allegations contained in the previous paragraphs are > > incorporated by reference. > > > > 27. California's Unruh Act requires that individuals with > > disabilities have "full and equal accommodations, advantages, facilities, > > privileges or services in all business establishments of every kind > > whatsoever." Cal. Civ. Code § 51(b). > > > > 28. LSAC and Lsac.org are business establishments as that term is > > used in Cal. Civ. Code § 51(b) and lsac.org is an accommodation, > > advantage, facility, privilege and service of LSAC. > > > > 29. Defendant's conduct alleged herein violates the Unruh Act, > > including Cal. Civ. Code § 51(b), by denying Plaintiffs the full and > equal > > accommodations, advantages, facilities, privileges or services of LSAC > and > > lsac.org. > > > > 30. Defendant violated the Unruh Act intentionally and/or with > > deliberate indifference to the likelihood that it was violating the > rights > > of blind people and/or Defendant's violations were so intuitive or > obvious > > that noncompliance could not be other than intentional. > > > > 31. As a result of Defendant's conduct, the NFB, the NFB of > > California, and Ms. Goraya are entitled to injunctive relief requiring > > Defendant to make lsac.org accessible to blind individuals, and to make > > the LSAT test practice materials offered to lsac.org patrons available > to > > blind people in an accessible format. > > > > > > > > THIRD CAUSE OF ACTION > > > > (Declaratory Relief, Cal. Civ. Proc. § 1060 ) > > > > 32. The allegations contained in the previous paragraphs are > > incorporated by reference. > > > > 33. On information and belief, Defendants contend that they may > > lawfully deny Plaintiffs access to their website and its contents. > > Plaintiffs contend that lsac.org, which LSAC owns, operates, and/or > > controls, must provide blind patrons access to its website and website > > contents under California Civil Code §§ 54, et seq. and California Civil > > Code §§ 51, et seq., which prohibit discrimination against the blind. > > > > 34. A judicial declaration is necessary and appropriate at this > time > > in order that each of the parties may know their respective rights and > > duties and act accordingly. > > > > WHEREFORE, Plaintiffs request relief as set forth below. > > > > RELIEF REQUESTED > > > > WHEREFORE, Plaintiffs pray for judgment as follows: > > > > 1. An order enjoining LSAC from violating California > > Civil Code §§ 51, et seq. and §§ 54, et seq.; > > > > 2. A declaration that LSAC is owning, maintaining > and/or > > operating lsac.org in a manner which discriminates against the blind and > > which fails to provide access for persons with disabilities as required > by > > law; > > > > 3. Plaintiffs' reasonable attorneys' fees and costs as > > authorized by California California Civil Code §§ 54, et seq., California > > Civil Code §§ 51, et seq., and pursuant to California Code of Civil > > Procedure § 1021.5. > > > > 4. Such other and further relief as the Court deems > just > > and proper. > > > > > > > > DATED: > > DISABILITY RIGHTS ADVOCATES > > > > > > > > > By: > > ____________________________ > > > > > > Laurence W. Paradis > > > > > > > > > > > > Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. > > > > LaBarre Law Offices P.C. > > 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 > > Denver, Colorado 80222 > > 303 504-5979 (voice) > > 303 757-3640 (fax) > > slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) > > www.labarrelaw.com (website) > > > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and > > privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may > not > > read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this > message > > in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or > > slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. > This > > message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic > > Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. > > _______________________________________________ > > blindlaw mailing list > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > blindlaw: > > > > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b75205%40gmail.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/bspiry%40comcast.n > et > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b75205%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/bspiry%40comcast.n et _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail. com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stephanie_enyart%4 0yahoo.com From lmilholland at hotmail.com Sun Mar 15 22:08:05 2009 From: lmilholland at hotmail.com (Locke Milholland) Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 18:08:05 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Multiple LSAT Scores References: <107BE7431F3C4AD3A26E7F337F75568A@noneeb869fea9a> Message-ID: "Nor did it matter which ship could dock at which port on which day." Except for that one torts case where the ship in the storm caused damage to the dock. Had it not been for my Princeton LSAT review, I would have briefed the court ruled choice A. instead of choice C. j/k. ----- Original Message ----- From: "John " To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 2:57 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Multiple LSAT Scores > Hello Craig, > Nor did it matter which ship could dock at which port on which day. As far > as the reading comprehension sections were concerned, the articles were > dull > and made me sleepy, but did not have any impact on my professor's being > equally dull. > Take care, > John > > John A. Ramsey Jr., Esq. > > Gainesville, FL 32609 > > Phone: (352) 505-6642 > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of Craig Borne > Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 1:51 PM > To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Multiple LSAT Scores > > > John, > > I agree. Never in my 3 1/2 years of law school was I asked to calculate > how > many green M and Ms would fit in a school locker. > > Craig > > Craig Borne > Baltimore, Maryland > "A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial > appearance of being right, and raises at first a formidable outcry in > defense of custom." --Thomas Paine, Common Sense > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of John > Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 6:10 PM > To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Multiple LSAT Scores > > It has been several years since I had the displeasure of taking the LSAT, > but something I have always pondered about is this fictional belief that > the > LSAT score is an accurate predictor of how a student will do in his first > year of law school. I personally believe that it is not a predictor of > anything, much less, how a person will perform in law school. I am sure > that > there a thousand studies supporting and refuting this claim. I just find > it > interesting. Take care, John > > John A. Ramsey Jr., Esq. > > Gainesville, FL 32609 > > Phone: (352) 505-6642 > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of Angie Matney > Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 5:17 PM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: [blindlaw] Multiple LSAT Scores > > > Here's what UVA's web site says: > > What is your policy on multiple LSAT scores? > The ABA requires law schools to report LSAT information using an admitted > students highest score, so that is the score to which we give the most > weight. We evaluate all information submitted as part of the application > for > admission, however, including all scores earned on the LSAT. Studies by > the > Law School Admission Council suggest that in most cases the average score > is > the most accurate predictor of academic performance in the first year of > law > school, so we encourage applicants with a significant difference in LSAT > scores to include with their application any information that may be > relevant to the interpretation of test results, such as illness, testing > conditions, or other circumstances that may have affected LSAT > performance. > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joramsey%40cox.net > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdborne%40gmail.co > m > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joramsey%40cox.net > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/lmilholland%40hotmail.com > From stephanie_enyart at yahoo.com Sun Mar 15 22:50:08 2009 From: stephanie_enyart at yahoo.com (Stephanie Enyart) Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 15:50:08 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Introduction In-Reply-To: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6B26D662@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local> Message-ID: <004401c9a5c0$64c25110$0401a8c0@DF5R2QD1> Welcome Mehgan! -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of McCarthy, Jim Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 12:24 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Introduction Mehgan, Welcome! You will certainly bring valuable discourse to our list. Jim McCarthy -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Mehgan Sidhu Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 2:52 PM To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org Subject: [blindlaw] Introduction Hello Listserv Members, I just joined the listserv so that I can share relevant information on this forum. I'm an attorney at Brown, Goldstein & Levy and one of several attorneys at the firm who represents the National Federation of the Blind on access technology and other litigation matters. I've been with the firm for about two-and-a-half years and have worked on the Target case, the Apple iTunes settlement, and other website, technology and education cases. Recently, I've been working with Scott LaBarre, Disability Rights Advocates, and others on the listserv in the action against the LSAC's inaccessible website and have been working more generally on issues related to access to e-books for the NFB. I look forward to sharing information that may be useful, particularly related to the access technology issues. Best, Mehgan Mehgan Sidhu Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP 120 East Baltimore Street, Suite 1700 Baltimore, Maryland 21202 410-962-1030 x1324 410-385-0869 (fax) ms at browngold.com www.browngold.com Confidentiality Notice This e-mail may contain confidential information that may also be legally privileged and that is intended only for the use of the addressee(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient or an authorized agent of the recipient, please be advised that any dissemination or copying of this e-mail, or taking of any action in reliance on the information contained herein, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify me immediately by use of the reply button, and then delete the e-mail from your system. Thank you! _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jmccarthy%40nf b.org _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stephanie_enyart%4 0yahoo.com From JMcCarthy at nfb.org Sun Mar 15 23:17:21 2009 From: JMcCarthy at nfb.org (McCarthy, Jim) Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 19:17:21 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. lsac complaint In-Reply-To: <000501c9a5b5$c00dc000$0401a8c0@DF5R2QD1> Message-ID: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6B26D671@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local> Stephanie, That is about as thorough an explanation on what those wanting to take the LSAT should consider that I have ever read. I wish you were older than me and could have given me that advice when I took the darned LSAT, but it worked out all right, I guess. Jim -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Stephanie Enyart Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 5:32 PM To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. lsac complaint Dear Bill, I have a few suggestions for your LSAT preparation. 1) Consider buying a test prep course. Although they are costly, often they are worth it. Nearly all the students at my law school took prep courses and TestMasters was the most popular company. I did TestMasters and bought some individual tutoring to figure out how to address some of my disability-related needs. I know several blind law students/lawyers who used TestMasters or Kaplan. Both of these companies have experience dealing with blind students and can give you electronic copies of all their test material. One of the major distinctions between then is that TestMasters only uses former LSAT questions where Kaplan writes their own practice questions. The result is that if you took TestMasters, the practice material that is currently inaccessible and sold on the LSAC website is made accessible as a TestMasters student. Depending on what state you live in, I recommend working with Vocational Rehab to have this paid for as part of your voc rehab plan. 2) Convert the printed material sold by LSAT into accessible format. I'm unsure of whether you own a scanner and software like Kurzweil or Open book but you could scan any practice tests you buy from LSAC.org and make them accessible that way. If you don't have a scanner and software, I highly recommend getting them before law school because they are extremely handy for bridging the gap between what your school can provide and what you need (like scanning any paper based items the school won't provide in electronic format). If this isn't possible right now, try to find a blind center (one of NFB's, a Lighthouse for the Blind, or even independent living center) where you could go and scan this. You could even turn to a local NFB chapter to see if there are any members who would allow you to use their assistive technology. 3) Borrow Braille practice tests from LSAC. I'm not sure if you're a Braille user but LSAC has around 9 practice tests that you can borrow three at a time once you've submitted your documentation for disability accommodations for the LSAT. This isn't advertised or explained anywhere in their materials but if you call them and tell them you "know" there is a program to loan Braille tests, they won't deny this request. But there are a few things that make this option not ideal. Fist, there are only a few tests and generally people take a ton of them so it isn't a complete solution. Then, the really quirky thing about these tests is that they aren't titled -- they're lacking the title of which test you are actually taking (e.g. the June 2000 test or February 1999 test). If you're studying pretty hard and taking lots of practice tests, it is a pretty big bummer to plan to take a 7 plus hour practice test to then find out the one you're taking is one you've already done and you recognize the questions or you are taking a very old test that strays from how they're testing today. Plus, few blind people opt to take the test in Braille anyway -- roughly 5 a year -- so you might not want to practice in Braille if you aren't planning to take it in that medium. 4) Search Bookshare.org or RFBD for recent LSAT test prep material. Although I haven't checked lately, I know bookshare had some scanned versions of Kaplan materials. Just make sure you get something recent though because the test has evolved over time. I spoke with the head of Bookshare last week and they're very aware of the LSAT materials problem -- we just need a recent LSAT test taker who is a member of Bookshare to post their accessible stuff on that site . . . anyone out there? 5) Work with a reader to access printed material. Although this isn't the easiest thing to do, nor the cheapest, it may be the only option for you. Plus, if you are planning to take the test with one of their live readers, being used to practicing that way is helpful. If this is your method, certainly make sure you spend time advocating for Rehab to pay for it. I think I racked up around $7000 in reader fees when I was practicing (this was before TestMasters had electronic access to their materials so all my TestMasters homework was done with readers too). Remember, there has been at least one blind test taker who has successfully been granted the accommodation of taking the test on a computer with Jaws so if you want that, you'll need to fight for it and you might really want to do all your studying or as much as possible, in the medium you're going to use on test day. I hope this helps. I've done quite a bit of research on LSAT/law school admissions issues so don't hesitate to contact me off-list if you have any questions along the way. Best of luck in your studies, Stephanie Enyart -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Rod Alcidonis Sent: Thursday, March 12, 2009 11:32 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. lsac complaint Well, academically speaking, the law suit could have prayed for a Temporary Restraining Order, or a preliminary Injunction against the LSAC for folks like you. Basically enjoined the LSAC from administering the exam until they make the changes. The only difficulty with that I think justifies the reason they probably did not pray for such a relief is that such a measure would cause too much harm to the public, I.E, the thousands of law students and schools who rely on the exam to make admissions decisions. Such an order while it would have forced the LSAC to make the changes much faster, it would have unreasonably halted the system for some times. If it were a class action with thousands of members, it probably would have been easier to argue, I think. Whether not passing an exam for the first time is considered irreparable harm is another question -- you can still make the argument under these circumstances. Rod Alcidonis Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009. Roger Williams University School of Law 10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 Bristol, RI 02809 Cell: 718-704-4651 Home: 401-824-8685 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Spiry" To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2009 9:52 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. lsac complaint I understand. What might be done to getLSAC to authorize use of this material as an accessible alternative to what they have to offer? I know NFB is sueing them, but in the mean time that leaves folks like me who don't have the Adobe skills you have, and facing the LSAT soon without accessible matter. Any ideas or suggestions? Thanks. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of James Pepper Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 10:43 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. lsac complaint Well Bill the content is copyrighted by LSAC so I am not sure I can send this to you. Perhaps some on this list can give that advice. I laid it out properly. James On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 9:05 AM, Bill Spiry wrote: > I would appreciate receiving this as well. Thanks. > bspiry at comcast.net > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of James Pepper > Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 1:46 AM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. lsac complaint > > Scott: I laid out the first section of the LSAT to be accessible and I > can > send you the files if you would like to see it. Also I made the form that > they use accessible so the blind can fill out the test without assistance. > This works with JAWS and Window Eyes and a combination of Adobe's Read out > Loud and Microsoft Narrator. My process works and if you need references > at > NFB, AFB and the AAPD I can send them to you. > > It took a while to figure out how they made thier pdfs and I know where > they > are making their mistakes. I can correct this problem. These PDFs are made > to work natively with JAWS and Adobe Reader and the other screen readers > without making any adjustments. They work with the default settings in > Adobe Reader. > > Also the forms can be digitally signed and saved and all that fancy stuff > that you expect with Adobe Acrobat Professional can be done with > Adobe Reader, versions 8 or 9 which is the free download from Adobe.com. > So > we can make the LSAT accessible to anyone with a PC running Windows XP Or > VIsta without any change of settings. This means the PC can be there for > the sighted and the blind, with equal access for all. > > Also since I labeled everything, it will be a lot quicker for you to fill > out this test! > > Sincerely, > > James G. Pepper > > > > On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 4:32 PM, Scott C. LaBarre > wrote: > > > Below I am sharing the complaint that we filed today in California Court. > > ************** > > LaurEnce W. paradis (California Bar No. 122336) > > > > Anna levine (California Bar No. 227881) > > > > Disability Rights Advocates > > > > 2001 Center Street, Third Floor > > > > Berkeley, California 94704 > > > > Telephone: (510) 665-8644 > > > > Facsimile: (510) 665-8511 > > > > TTY: (510) 665-8716 > > > > > > > > SCOTT LABARRE (to seek pro hac vice admission) > > > > LABARRE LAW OFFICES, P.C. > > > > 1660 S. Albion Street, Ste 918 > > > > Denver, Colo 80222 > > > > Telephone: (303) 504-5979 > > > > Fax: (303) 757-3640 > > > > > > > > DANIEL F. GOLDSTEIN (to seek pro hac vice admission) > > > > MEHGAN Sidhu (to seek pro hac vice admission) > > > > Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP > > > > 120 E. Baltimore St., Suite 1700 > > > > Baltimore, MD 21202 > > > > Telephone: (410) 962-1030 > > > > Fax: (410) 385-0869 > > > > > > > > SUPERIOR COURT OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA > > COUNTY OF ALAMEDA > > > > > > > > National Federation of the Blind, the National Federation of the > Blind > > of CALIFORNIA, and DEEPA GORAYA, > > > > > > > > Plaintiffs, > > > > v. > > > > LAW SCHOOL ADMISSION COUNCIL, INC., > > > > Defendant. > > > > > > > > Case No.: > > > > > > > > > > > > COMPLAINT FOR INJUNCTIVE AND DECLARATORY RELIEF FOR VIOLATIONS OF > THE > > CALIFORNIA DISABLED PERSONS ACT AND UNRUH CIVIL RIGHTS ACT > > > > > > > > > > INTRODUCTION > > > > Plaintiffs complain of Defendant and allege herein as follows: > > > > 1. This action, brought by the National Federation of the Blind, > > the National Federation of the Blind of California, and Deepa Goraya, > seeks > > to put an end to civil rights violations committed by defendant Law > School > > Admissions Council (hereafter "LSAC") against blind persons seeking to > take > > the LSAT exam and apply to law schools. Plaintiff Deepa Goraya, a blind > law > > school applicant in California, has been and is being denied equal access > to > > the accommodations, advantages, and facilities LSAC provides its > > non-disabled customers through http://www.lsac.org (hereafter "lsac.org" > > and "the website"). Plaintiffs National Federation of the Blind and the > > National Federation of the Blind of California have members who are > > similarly denied full and equal access to such accommodations, advantages > > and facilities. Lsac.org is currently the only place online where > > prospective law students can register for the Law School Admissions Test > > ("LSAT"), apply to law schools, and obtain official LSAT test preparation > > materials and information. Lsac.org contains multiple access barriers > that > > make it difficult if not impossible for blind law school applicants and > LSAT > > test takers to use the website and to obtain practice materials without > > sighted assistance. LSAC thus excludes the blind, including Ms. Goraya, > > from full and equal access to the accommodations, advantages, facilities, > > and privileges of lsac.org. > > > > JURISDICTION > > > > 2. This is a civil action under California's Disabled Persons Act > > (Cal. Civ. Code §§ 54, et seq.) and the Unruh Civil Rights Act (Cal. Civ. > > Code §§ 51, et seq.) and for declaratory relief. This Court has > > jurisdiction over the claims alleged herein pursuant to California Civil > > Code §§ 54, et seq. and California Civil Code §§ 51, et seq. and > California > > Code of Civil Procedure section 1060. > > > > 3. This Court has jurisdiction over LSAC because LSAC is a > > corporation authorized to do business in California and LSAC conducts > > substantial business in California. LSAC owns, maintains and operates its > > website, lsac.org, throughout California and in Alameda County. > > > > > > > > VENUE > > > > 4. Venue is proper in Alameda County because liability arises in > > part in Alameda County, where the National Federation of the Blind of > > California has its headquarters. LSAC has been and is committing the > acts > > alleged herein in Alameda County, has been and is violating the rights of > > patrons in Alameda County, and has been and is causing injury to patrons > in > > Alameda County. > > > > 5. Plaintiff Goraya is a California citizen and has experienced > > injury in California as a result of LSAC's inaccessible website and > practice > > materials. > > > > PARTIES > > > > 6. Plaintiff the National Federation of the Blind (hereafter > "NFB") > > is a national advocacy organization. The NFB, the oldest and largest > > national organization of blind persons, is a non-profit corporation duly > > organized under the laws of the District of Columbia with its principal > > place of business in Baltimore, Maryland. It has affiliates in all 50 > > states (including California) as well as Washington, D.C. and Puerto > Rico. > > The vast majority of the approximately 50,000 members are blind persons. > > The NFB is widely recognized by the public, Congress, executive agencies > of > > government and the courts as a collective and representative voice on > behalf > > of blind Americans and their families. The purpose of the NFB is to > promote > > the general welfare of the blind by (1) assisting the blind in their > efforts > > to integrate themselves into society on terms of equality and (2) > removing > > barriers and changing social attitudes, stereotypes and mistaken beliefs > > that sighted and blind persons hold concerning the limitations created by > > blindness resulting in the denial of opportunity to blind persons in > > virtually every sphere of life. The NFB and many of its members have > long > > been actively involved in promoting adaptive technology for the blind, so > > that blind persons can live and work independently in today's > > technology-dependent world. NFB members reside throughout the United > > States, including the state of California, and many of its members would > use > > the services of lsac.org if this website is made independently usable by > > the blind. > > > > 7. Plaintiff the National Federation of the Blind of California > > (hereafter "NFB of California") is a state affiliate of the National > > Federation of the Blind. NFB of California is a California corporation > and > > carries out NFB's objectives at the state level. It has local chapters > > throughout California, including Alameda County, and has its headquarters > in > > Fremont, California, in Alameda County. > > > > 8. Plaintiff Goraya is a member of the NFB and the NFB of > > California. She is blind and has been denied full and equal access to > the > > accommodations, advantages, facilities and privileges of lsac.org. > > > > 9. Defendant LSAC, is a non-profit corporation > > established to coordinate, facilitate, and enhance the law school > admissions > > process. LSAC owns, operates and/or maintains the website lsac.com, a > > public accommodation. Plaintiffs seek access to the services provided by > > LSAC in California through lsac.org. > > > > FACTS > > > > 10. Lsac.org is owned, controlled and/or operated by LSAC. > Lsac.org > > is a public accommodation that offers its visitors comprehensive services > > for applying to law school. The website functions as the official > > destination for guiding prospective law school applicants through the > > fundamental steps of applying to law school. Among its services, > lsac.orgoffers information about the LSAT and law school application > process, and > > extensive LSAT preparation materials and resources. Lsac.org also serves > as > > the exclusive online means for registering for the LSAT and applying to > > ABA-accredited law schools. > > > > 11. According to the website, lsac.org's online services enable > > prospective law students to do the following, among other things: > > > > a.. Register for the LSAT > > b.. Register for the LSDAS (Law School Data Assembly Service) > > c.. Purchase publications and test preparation materials > > d.. Have access to electronic applications for all ABA-approved law > > schools > > e.. Apply online to law schools > > f.. Register for law school forums > > g.. Have 24-hour file access > > 12. In addition to facilitating the LSAT and law school application > > processes, a significant portion of the lsac.org website is devoted to > > preparing students to take the LSAT. Among the services offered in that > > regard are online information guides that explain how to prepare for the > > LSAT and free, downloadable sample practice tests and test questions. > > Lsac.org also offers for a fee an online LSAT practice test tool and the > > opportunity to purchase more than 40 official LSAT practice tests. > > > > 13. While sighted visitors to lsac.org can easily obtain the benefits > and > > advantages offered by the website, blind individuals, including Ms. > Goraya, > > have been and are being denied access to lsac.org due to LSAC's failure > > and refusal to remove access barriers to lsac.org. Specifically, blind > > visitors to the website, including Ms. Goraya, cannot independently apply > to > > law school, register for the LSAT, or obtain in an accessible format the > > LSAT preparation materials and practice tests available through lsac.org > . > > > > 14. The blind access websites by using keyboards in conjunction > with > > screen-reading software. This software vocalizes or conveys to a > refreshable > > Braille display information that appears visually on a computer screen. > > Unless websites are designed to allow for use in this manner, blind > persons > > are unable to fully access the internet websites and the information, > > products and services contained therein. > > > > 15. There are well-established guidelines for making websites > > accessible to the blind. These guidelines have been in place for at > least > > several years and have been followed successfully by other public > > accommodations in making their online services accessible. The Web > > Accessibility Initiative (WAI), a project of the World Wide Web > Consortium, > > which is the leading standards organization for the Web, has developed > > guidelines for making information that is reached via the internet > > accessible. The federal government has also promulgated accessibility > > standards under Section 508 of the Rehabilitation Act. These guidelines > > have long been readily available via the internet so that any public > > accommodation could easily secure the necessary information. > > > > 16. Lsac.org contains a variety of access barriers that prevent > free > > and full use by blind persons using keyboards and screen reading > software. > > These barriers include but are not limited to: lack of or improperly > > labeled form controls; faulty keyboard navigation; and use of tables and > > charts that are not formatted for accessibility. Form controls allow > users > > to input data on online forms and applications. These controls must be > > coded and labeled to allow screen-access software to detect and vocalize > the > > requested information. Keyboard navigation refers to the ability to > > successfully navigate a website using keyboard commands, as opposed to > > requiring a mouse as the exclusive means for navigation of the site. > > Further, charts and tables must be formatted to work with screen-access > > software. Much of the lsac.org website, and in particular the online > law > > school application and LSAT registration sections of the website, lack > these > > fundamental accessibility components. As a result, blind visitors to the > > website cannot independently use those and other critical features. > > > > 17. Lsac.org's test preparation materials that are available on the > > website in Adobe Portable Document (PDF) format, are not properly > "tagged." > > This means that the headings, paragraphs, tables, image descriptions and > > form controls are not easily discernable to screen-reading software. As > a > > result, these materials are cumbersome, if not impossible, for a blind > > visitor to navigate. > > > > 18. Finally, lsac.org fails to offer LSAT practice tests, > available > > as part of its test preparation services, in formats accessible to the > > blind. While the sighted can easily use the website to obtain more than > 40 > > formerly administered LSAT practice tests, the website fails to offer the > > opportunity to purchase these practice materials in formats accessible to > > the blind, such as Braille or an accessible electronic format. > > > > 19. As a result of lsac.org's accessibility barriers, blind law > > school applicants, including Ms. Goraya, must go over extraordinary > hurdles > > to register and prepare for the LSAT and to apply to law school compared > to > > their sighted counterparts. After unsuccessfully attempting to use > > lsac.org independently to register for the LSAT and fill out her law > > school applications, for example, Plaintiff Goraya was forced to select > and > > rely upon a reader for over 50 hours simply to read aloud the content of > the > > website and complete her law school applications. Moreover, none of the > > LSAT practice materials, which include previously administered versions > of > > the test, were available to her in accessible electronic formats. > Lsac.org > > thus contains numerous access barriers which deny full and equal access > to > > Plaintiff, who would otherwise use the accommodations, advantages, and > > facilities of lsac.org. > > > > 20. On December 10, 2008, Plaintiff National Federation of the > Blind > > notified LSAC of the unlawful accessibility barriers on its website. > LSAC > > responded by setting up and then canceling a meeting with the NFB. On > > January 22, 2009, the NFB notified LSAC that it intended to pursue legal > > action against LSAC for the unlawful barriers on its website. > > > > FIRST CAUSE OF ACTION > > > > (Violation of Cal. Civ. Code §§ 54, et seq. - the Disabled Persons Act) > > > > 21. The allegations contained in the previous paragraphs are > > incorporated by reference. > > > > 22. The Disabled Persons Act ("DPA") requires that individuals with > > disabilities have "full and equal access, as other members of the general > > public, to accommodations, advantages, facilities, . . . and other places > to > > which the general public is invited, subject only to the conditions and > > limitations established by law, or state or federal regulation, and > > applicable alike to all persons." Cal. Civ. Code 54.1(a)(1). > > > > 23. Lsac.org, which is owned, operated and/or maintained by LSAC, > is > > an > > > > accommodation, advantage, facility and/or place to which the general > public > > is invited, as those terms are used in Cal. Civ. Code § 54.1(a)(1). > > > > 24. Defendant's conduct alleged herein violates the DPA, including > > Cal. Civ. Code § 54.1(a)(1), by denying the Plaintiffs full and equal > access > > to the accommodations, advantages and facilities of lsac.org. > > > > 25. As a result of Defendant's conduct, the NFB, the NFB of > > California, and Ms. Goraya are entitled to injunctive relief requiring > > Defendant to make lsac.org accessible to blind individuals, and to make > > the LSAT test practice materials offered to lsac.org patrons available > to > > blind people in an accessible format. > > > > SECOND CAUSE OF ACTION > > > > (Violation of Cal.Civ. Code §§ 51, et seq. - The Unruh Act) > > > > 26. The allegations contained in the previous paragraphs are > > incorporated by reference. > > > > 27. California's Unruh Act requires that individuals with > > disabilities have "full and equal accommodations, advantages, facilities, > > privileges or services in all business establishments of every kind > > whatsoever." Cal. Civ. Code § 51(b). > > > > 28. LSAC and Lsac.org are business establishments as that term is > > used in Cal. Civ. Code § 51(b) and lsac.org is an accommodation, > > advantage, facility, privilege and service of LSAC. > > > > 29. Defendant's conduct alleged herein violates the Unruh Act, > > including Cal. Civ. Code § 51(b), by denying Plaintiffs the full and > equal > > accommodations, advantages, facilities, privileges or services of LSAC > and > > lsac.org. > > > > 30. Defendant violated the Unruh Act intentionally and/or with > > deliberate indifference to the likelihood that it was violating the > rights > > of blind people and/or Defendant's violations were so intuitive or > obvious > > that noncompliance could not be other than intentional. > > > > 31. As a result of Defendant's conduct, the NFB, the NFB of > > California, and Ms. Goraya are entitled to injunctive relief requiring > > Defendant to make lsac.org accessible to blind individuals, and to make > > the LSAT test practice materials offered to lsac.org patrons available > to > > blind people in an accessible format. > > > > > > > > THIRD CAUSE OF ACTION > > > > (Declaratory Relief, Cal. Civ. Proc. § 1060 ) > > > > 32. The allegations contained in the previous paragraphs are > > incorporated by reference. > > > > 33. On information and belief, Defendants contend that they may > > lawfully deny Plaintiffs access to their website and its contents. > > Plaintiffs contend that lsac.org, which LSAC owns, operates, and/or > > controls, must provide blind patrons access to its website and website > > contents under California Civil Code §§ 54, et seq. and California Civil > > Code §§ 51, et seq., which prohibit discrimination against the blind. > > > > 34. A judicial declaration is necessary and appropriate at this > time > > in order that each of the parties may know their respective rights and > > duties and act accordingly. > > > > WHEREFORE, Plaintiffs request relief as set forth below. > > > > RELIEF REQUESTED > > > > WHEREFORE, Plaintiffs pray for judgment as follows: > > > > 1. An order enjoining LSAC from violating California > > Civil Code §§ 51, et seq. and §§ 54, et seq.; > > > > 2. A declaration that LSAC is owning, maintaining > and/or > > operating lsac.org in a manner which discriminates against the blind and > > which fails to provide access for persons with disabilities as required > by > > law; > > > > 3. Plaintiffs' reasonable attorneys' fees and costs as > > authorized by California California Civil Code §§ 54, et seq., California > > Civil Code §§ 51, et seq., and pursuant to California Code of Civil > > Procedure § 1021.5. > > > > 4. Such other and further relief as the Court deems > just > > and proper. > > > > > > > > DATED: > > DISABILITY RIGHTS ADVOCATES > > > > > > > > > By: > > ____________________________ > > > > > > Laurence W. Paradis > > > > > > > > > > > > Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. > > > > LaBarre Law Offices P.C. > > 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 > > Denver, Colorado 80222 > > 303 504-5979 (voice) > > 303 757-3640 (fax) > > slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) > > www.labarrelaw.com (website) > > > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and > > privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may > not > > read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this > message > > in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or > > slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. > This > > message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic > > Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. > > _______________________________________________ > > blindlaw mailing list > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > blindlaw: > > > > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b75205%40gmail.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/bspiry%40comcast.n > et > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b75205%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/bspiry%40comcast.n et _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail. com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stephanie_enyart%4 0yahoo.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jmccarthy%40nfb.org From angie at mpmail.net Mon Mar 16 00:50:53 2009 From: angie at mpmail.net (Angie Matney) Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 20:50:53 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Multiple LSAT Scores In-Reply-To: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6B26D66D@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local> Message-ID: I guess I'm solidly in the minority: I liked the logic games. In fact, I think I got a perfect score on that section. This might have been due in part to all those years I wasted--er, spent in math grad school. (grin) Angie On Sun, 15 Mar 2009 15:43:17 -0400, McCarthy, Jim wrote: >I take Craig's point, but I do think that the logic games or whatever >they are called may actually measure one's ability to apply conditions. >And though I hated those questions and found them difficult as a blind >person not to mention just weird, I think that properly using conditions >may be a valuable thing to do in law school and beyond as a lawyer. >Now to the real point though, I imagine that regardless what the studies >say about the predictive power of the LSAT, the one thing it possibly >can do is rank candidates. There is so much variability among the >higher education institutions of this country that grades are probably >somewhat meaningless because we really don't know what kind of effort a >student must put forward to get a particular grade at any particular >institution. The possible answer to this is to make us all take the >same dull test and compare us that way. >-----Original Message----- >From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >On Behalf Of Craig Borne >Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 1:51 PM >To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' >Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Multiple LSAT Scores >John, >I agree. Never in my 3 1/2 years of law school was I asked to calculate >how many green M and Ms would fit in a school locker. >Craig >Craig Borne >Baltimore, Maryland >"A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial >appearance of being right, and raises at first a formidable outcry in >defense of custom." --Thomas Paine, Common Sense >-----Original Message----- >From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >On Behalf Of John >Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 6:10 PM >To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' >Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Multiple LSAT Scores >It has been several years since I had the displeasure of taking the >LSAT, but something I have always pondered about is this fictional >belief that the LSAT score is an accurate predictor of how a student >will do in his first year of law school. I personally believe that it is >not a predictor of anything, much less, how a person will perform in law >school. >I am sure that there a thousand studies supporting and refuting this >claim. >I just find it interesting. >Take care, >John >John A. Ramsey Jr., Esq. >Gainesville, FL 32609 >Phone: (352) 505-6642 >-----Original Message----- >From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >On Behalf Of Angie Matney >Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 5:17 PM >To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >Subject: [blindlaw] Multiple LSAT Scores >Here's what UVA's web site says: >What is your policy on multiple LSAT scores? >The ABA requires law schools to report LSAT information using an >admitted students highest score, so that is the score to which we give >the most weight. We evaluate all information submitted as part of the >application for admission, however, including all scores earned on the >LSAT. Studies by the Law School Admission Council suggest that in most >cases the average score is the most accurate predictor of academic >performance in the first year of law school, so we encourage applicants >with a significant difference in LSAT scores to include with their >application any information that may be relevant to the interpretation >of test results, such as illness, testing conditions, or other >circumstances that may have affected LSAT performance. >_______________________________________________ >blindlaw mailing list >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >blindlaw: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joramsey%40cox >.net >_______________________________________________ >blindlaw mailing list >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >blindlaw: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdborne%40gmai >l.co >m >_______________________________________________ >blindlaw mailing list >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >blindlaw: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jmccarthy%40nf >b.org >_______________________________________________ >blindlaw mailing list >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie%40mpmail.net From jsorozco at gmail.com Mon Mar 16 01:11:48 2009 From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco) Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 21:11:48 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Angie, Forgive the lack of clarification on my part. When I referred to nipping the problem in the bud and focusing on classrooms, I meant concentrating on students learning how to develop sites in the first place. Litigation is costly and can take years. By the time a settlement is achieved further down the road the landscape of web accessibility has changed to encompass issues that may not have been an issue in the original case. Packages like DreamWeaver are already offering features to increase accessibility. I simply believe it would behoove us to refocus our efforts at targeting the source of the evolving Internet rather than isolating a few companies at a time. I am not defending the lack of cooperation of some entities. I am saying our priorities should be laid out in such a way that maximizes the money the membership raises to make such litigation possible. On the same point about priorities, I believe a greater priority would have been our access to the disability department at the LSAC that goes beyond an e-mail address. Bill, No matter how minimal the task may be for the party on the other end, we are always going to be competing with the expansion of technology. You say it is not fair that blind people should have to develop special ways of gaining accessibility. I agree, but we already do this in everyday life. If we are gauging success on the elimination of special techniques we will forever be chasing the next barrier and the barrier after that. There is no such thing as simple service, because the Internet itself is not a simple domain. Up to a point it really is up to individuals to learn how to remain caught up with the latest methods of accessing the same information as sighted peers. Perhaps we could do more to stimulate a dialogue between adaptive technology companies and major software manufacturers. Scott, Is it true that the WCAG was last revised in 1999? Am I mistaken in my perception that Section 508 is singularly dealing with government agencies? These are genuine points of information I would like addressed so that I am explaining the situation accurately to other individuals. It would also help me better understand the role of these standards across the cases the organization has taken up. At first glance it would appear the documents are not fully accounting for the ever growing spectrum of Internet accessibility such as those elements introduced in the Web 2.0 era alone, but even if these documents are somehow written in such a way as to dictate every possible technological scenario imaginable, how do we begin to determine where the line of company responsibility ends and personal obligation begins. A blind person may very well have difficulty navigating even a web site that meets every standard imaginable. Can that person claim a wrong was committed because they themselves are incapable of navigating the site? On that point, I believe a survey was supposedly distributed among prospective law students asking for feedback on their experience with the LSAC. I submitted a request for a copy of that survey and never received a response. My feelings aren't hurt that my input was not collected, but I would be curious to learn the results of said survey. What trends were discovered, and how did these patterns correspond to our general standard of pursuing formal action against a company? The organization may not be stumbling across web sites, finding them inaccessible and litigating the next day, but it's a hard case to prove when it seems we are in a continuous state of isolating one company after another. What have we achieved with each case? How, for example, has our work on the Target matter translated over to other major retailers and the Internet as a whole? How much has it cost to carry the Target case from beginning to present? No, our small numbers does not give the majority the right to trample our rights. No one has argued to the contrary, but because we are smaller in numbers we should exercise prudence in how we exhaust time and money on the issue because web accessibility is not the only item on our radar. I would respectfully ask you in return that you allow time for these questions to be answered rather than encourage the subject off the list and increase the risk of ignorance among the membership. James, What I do not get is why the strength of the Jernigan Institute has not been exercised to provide training to companies and developers on what constitutes proper accessibility. Dave, I've made purchases on Target since 2005. I have never required sighted assistance, nor have I ever needed to call their telephone line to require assistance. I have never encountered an invisible button. Does this mean this invisible button does not exist? Certainly not, but I also did not think that one's web site viewing changed according to one's geography. Again, this is an educational point for me, because maybe different screen readers and different physical locations count for something. Actually, that raises an interesting point because not all screen readers are built equally. Are we relying on a fixed level of screen reader capacity, or is my persistent request for common standards simply just too much. In closing, I am not sympathetic to companies that do not cooperate with us when problems are found. I am saying that long-term strategies are necessary to deliver bigger impacts with our treasury. I enjoy a good fight as much as the next hawk, but in the oscillating arena of technology I believe there is a point where we have to assume the role of the educator and do more to bring about solutions at the foundation level rather than at the top where both sides are expending valuable resources on a case that could have been resolved a lot sooner. Joe Orozco "A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the crowd."--Max Lucado -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of David Andrews Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 2:11 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target Scott, Joe etc., The question of the Target site has come up, and Joe says he was able to use it. This very well could be true, as sometimes everything went fine. However, there were instances when the site put up on the screen a "purchase button" that was totally invisible to screen readers. Unless you clicked it, you could not finalize your purchase. It was not used for all purchases, but was for some. I know as it happened to me. Unfortunately I do not live in California. Anyway, if Joe didn't go all the way to making a purchase, or happened not to encounter the invisible button, then he would think the site was accessible. Dave At 10:19 PM 3/14/2009, you wrote: >The standards used are those of WCAG and Sec. >508. I did not work directly on Target and cannot tell you exactly the >access barriers. I can tell you that with respect to filing >applications to law schools through LSAC on their website, it is >impossible to fill those applications out independently using screen >reading softaware. Let me also assure list members that we don't >simply jump on a website, encounter difficulty, and then sue them the >next day. A lawsuit is the last resort when the entity is not willing >to deal with us otherwise. Just because we are a small minority does >not mean that our right to the mainstream of society must always be >subservient to the majority's unwillingness to consider us due to our >small numbers. Unless someone has a new point to be made on this >topic, I respectfully suggest that we move onto different discussions. >Let's also agree to disagree on certain points. >Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. > >LaBarre Law Offices P.C. >1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 >Denver, Colorado 80222 >303 504-5979 (voice) >303 757-3640 (fax) >slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) >www.labarrelaw.com (website) > >CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and >privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you >may not read, copy, distribute or retain this message. >If you received this message in error, please notify the sender at 303) >504-5979 or slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from >your system. This message and any attachments are covered by the >Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. >----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Orozco" >To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 8:52 AM >Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > >What troubles me is that my question of accessibility standards has not >been answered on the other case against the LSAC. The same question is >applicable here. What standard was used to conclude that the web site >was not accessible? I do not claim to be a genius at manipulating >technology to serve my needs, but I did not have to try hard at all to >make Target give me what I needed between 2005 and 2008. So is the >problem the web site layout, or is it our own technology training? >Rather than chase every entity with features a few people deem >inaccessible, would it not be prudent to take our standards, whatever >those may be, to the classroom, to the software developers, the >relevant associations raising the performance standards of its students >and members? This method of engineering change gives us the perception >of a watchdog group. If this is what we have become, and given the >small margin of the population we represent, I would rather trigger change at the source rather than at the output. > >Joe Orozco > >"A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the >crowd."--Max Lucado > >-----Original Message----- >From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >[mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley >Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 9:24 AM >To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > >That should not result in you receiving damages of almost $4,000.00. >----- Original Message ----- >From: >To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 4:35 AM >Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > >As an individual I am insulted and damaged each time I am discriminated >by a business not accommodating my ability to access their products and >services, especially on the Internet when I have made sure that I have >accommodated myself with the most up-to-date software to mitigate my >needs as a blind person. I should not have to rely on sighted >assistance to use a product or do without because the greedy >corporations has chosen the most expedient road to sell their products. >I am also insulted that you are posting this question. I have in my >life time been sold out by too many blind people that thought they knew >what I needed and I hope more companies will have to pay damages in >these types of cases. Perhaps they will then learn how to meet the >needs of all their customers. Fortunately here in California we have >some laws with some teeth in them that are enforceable--although these >teeth still need a good sharpening. >Chuck >----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. >Deeley" >To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 6:22 PM >Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > >That is a lawyer talking who makes his living in rediculous situations >like this one. Again, you show me how an individual was damaged and >out $4,000.00. >Steve >----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott C. >LaBarre" >To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 5:38 PM >Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > >Violation of civil rights has long been recognized as a form of >compensible legal damage as well it should be. >Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. > >LaBarre Law Offices P.C. >1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 >Denver, Colorado 80222 >303 504-5979 (voice) >303 757-3640 (fax) >slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) >www.labarrelaw.com (website) > >CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and >privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you >may not read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received >this message in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or >slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. >This message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic >Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. >----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. >Deeley" >To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 2:31 PM >Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > >>This is ridiculous! How were these people damaged? >>----- Original Message ----- From: "Mehgan Sidhu" >>To: >>Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 3:20 PM >>Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target >> >> >>>To answer the recent questions posted about the Target case, >the final >>>settlement hearing took place on March 9th. I understand from our >>>counsel in California, Larry Paradis of DRA and Josh >Konecky, that there >>>were no objectors and the Judge was pleased with the >resolution of the >>>case. The settlement is not fully "final" until the time for any >>>appeals has run - which is about 30 days. Given there were >no objectors, >>>it is highly unlikely that any appeals will be filed. The >judge has not >>>yet made a ruling on attorneys fees, but that will not hold up >>>enforcement of the settlement. >>> >>> >>> >>>As for disbursements, assuming there are no appeals, the claims >>>administer has 45 days from the final approval date to >disburse funds to >>>claimants. I do not know the final tally of approved >claimants, though I >>>think there were several hundred. I will pass that information along >>>when I have it. >>> >>> >>> >>>We will now be working on enforcing the settlement commitments that >>>Target made with respect to the accessibility of the website. >>> >>> >>>Mehgan Sidhu >>>Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP >>>120 East Baltimore Street, Suite 1700 Baltimore, Maryland 21202 >>>410-962-1030 x1324 >>>410-385-0869 (fax) >>>ms at browngold.com >>>www.browngold.com >>> >>>Confidentiality Notice >>> >>>This e-mail may contain confidential information that may >also be legally >>>privileged and that is intended only for the use of the addressee(s) >>>named above. If you are not the intended recipient or an authorized >>>agent of the recipient, please be advised that any dissemination or >>>copying of this e-mail, or taking of any action in reliance on the >>>information contained herein, is strictly prohibited. If you have >>>received this e-mail in error, please notify me immediately >by use of the >>>reply button, and then delete the e-mail from your system. >Thank you! >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>blindlaw mailing list >>>blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>blindlaw: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep >.deeley%40insightbb.com >> >> >---------------------------------------------------------------- >---------------- >> >> >> >>No virus found in this incoming message. >>Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release >Date: 03/13/09 >>05:59:00 >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>blindlaw mailing list >>blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>blindlaw: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/slabar >re%40labarrelaw.com > > > >_______________________________________________ >blindlaw mailing list >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >blindlaw: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep >.deeley%40insightbb.com > > >---------------------------------------------------------------- >---------------- > > > >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release >Date: 03/13/09 >05:59:00 > > >_______________________________________________ >blindlaw mailing list >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >blindlaw: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugm >an%40sbcglobal.net > > >_______________________________________________ >blindlaw mailing list >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >blindlaw: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep >.deeley%40insightbb.com > > >---------------------------------------------------------------- >---------------- > > > >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release >Date: 03/13/09 >05:59:00 > > >_______________________________________________ >blindlaw mailing list >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >blindlaw: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jsoroz >co%40gmail.com > > >__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >signature database 3936 (20090313) __________ > >The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > >http://www.eset.com > > > >__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >signature database 3936 (20090313) __________ > >The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > >http://www.eset.com > > > >_______________________________________________ >blindlaw mailing list >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >blindlaw: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/slabarre%40la >barrelaw.com > > > >_______________________________________________ >blindlaw mailing list >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >blindlaw: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40vi >si.com > _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jsoroz co%40gmail.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3936 (20090313) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3937 (20090314) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Mon Mar 16 02:41:00 2009 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 19:41:00 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] comments needed regarding policyforaudiblepedestriansignals In-Reply-To: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6B26D668@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local> References: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6B26D668@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local> Message-ID: <52EF5BE098F045CB9C686CB25AFFBB5B@spike> When I read this this was one of my concerns as well. Most of our medians here are raised and in some cases they are wide enough to have a bit of landscaping on them. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "McCarthy, Jim" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 8:59 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] comments needed regarding policyforaudiblepedestriansignals > Chuck, > You bring up streets with medians, which reminds me of a point in the > document that I might question. The document says that it is better for > blind people to complete the entire crossing rather than to wait in a > median, doing the crossing in multiple parts, usually two. I think that > when the person realizes that there is a median, he or she is more > comfortable waiting there. What sometimes happens though is that the > median is not clearly indicated so a blind person is not sure where in the > street area would be safe to wait. I know that when I had a dog, he would > go toward the place with the least obstructions so it was hard to realize > that there might be a median. Medians that are not raised or otherwise > distinguishable to a blind person are highly appropriate places for > detectible warnings and in my experience, probably the most appropriate > places for them. That, of course, is another topic. > Jim McCarthy > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net > Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 1:17 AM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] comments needed regarding policy > foraudiblepedestriansignals > > thanks. Some of the audible signals that have been installed thus far > installed at appropriate intersections. Others have been installed ast > places where there is a low volume of traffic and where there is a low > demand. Apparently they are wanting to have a more a systematic approach > in place to determine where signals will be installed in the future. We > have many intersections where there are medians crossing several wide > streets where they have not been installed. On these I personally prefer > to at times to divide the crossing in to two sections to pay more > attention to traffic flow. There is another location where they should > probably build a pedestrian crossing either above or below ground. There > is a precedent for a couple of below ground crossings one in downtown > Fresno that was built in the 60's and one that was just opened a couple of > years ago to go under railroad tracks that cut through the campus of the > local community college. > There have been some above ground pedestrian crossings of major roads and > freeways to benefit children going to school. As a long-time cane user > trained long before audible signals were fashionable or feasible I still > believe that traffic flow is the best audible signal. > Chuck > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "McCarthy, Jim" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 6:58 AM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] comments needed regarding policy for > audiblepedestriansignals > > >> Chuck, >> I am happy to talk through this with you off line if you would prefer. >> Nevertheless, I will offer my immediate thoughts after reading. It is >> a little unclear what the goal is. This process is to prioritize >> intersections giving those most in need APS first. I am convinced >> that there are several signalized (light controlled) intersections >> that do not need these devices. However, this might be a way to >> provide APS at all signalized intersections in time and that may be >> what the Access-Board will come to require. >> >> I think it is good to have as a part of the evaluation team a blind >> person and a deaf blind person when the requester is deaf blind or >> serves that community. I have always found it problematic though when >> cities say that the centers blind people use should have some super >> priority. I lived in Portland Oregon and the west part of the city >> was hilly with curvy streets. Many were not straight and some had high >> speed traffic. >> However, the audible traffic signals were almost never in those >> neighborhoods (the better ones I might add) because it was assumed >> that blind people did not frequent them. To me that is a ghettoizing >> assumption that results from this process. I do think that public >> transit centers and such places should have greater attention paid >> though and this document would do that. >> >> Finally, in the main, I think that the traffic and street >> configuration factors are as they should be. I think that the >> locations with the greatest need based on these factors should be the >> first to receive signals. The Fresno process is similar to others I >> have seen, though I would prefer that the evaluation group use the >> factors and evaluate all >> signalized intersections using the factors more than whether and how >> many requests were made. >> Jim McCarthy >> -----Original Message----- >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >> On Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net >> Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2009 8:21 AM >> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >> Subject: [blindlaw] comments needed regarding policy for audible >> pedestriansignals >> >> The City of Fresno is proposing the policy shown below to evaluate the >> installation of audible traffic signals. As this is outside my >> expertise I would appreciate any comments regarding this document. >> Please feel free to contact me off list if needed. >> Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal >> 1237 P Street >> Fresno ca 93721 >> 559-266-9237 >> >> >> APS Policy-03-09-LP .pdf >> DRAFT ACCESSIBLE PEDESTRIAN SIGNALS (APS) INTERSECTION EVALUATION >> PROCEDURE BACKGROUND Accessible Pedestrian Signals (APS), also known >> as audible pedestrian signals, are devices that communicate >> information about pedestrian timing in nonvisual format such as >> audible tones, verbal messages, and/or vibrating surfaces. APS are >> used in conjunction with standard pedestrian activated traffic signals >> to provide the following information to pedestrians: >> list of 4 items >> б· >> Existence of and location of the pedestrian pushbutton б· Beginning of >> the pedestrian WALK interval б· Direction of the crosswalk and location >> of the destination curb б· Clearance signal interval list end They are >> used to assist blind and visually impaired persons and other persons >> with disabilities of all ages to cross at designated streets and >> intersections. >> PURPOSE >> The purpose of this evaluation policy is to set forth factors to be >> used by the City of Fresno's Public Works Department, in cooperation >> with the City of Fresno's Disability Advisory Commission, in >> developing a priority listing of signalized intersection candidates to >> be retrofitted with audible devices that will provide guidance for the >> blind community and visually impaired persons and other persons with >> disabilities of all ages to cross certain streets. >> POLICY >> It is the policy of the City Council that the retrofitting of existing >> traffic signals with APS shall be based on factors established herein >> and that such measurements and computations as may be required in >> determining priority rating of candidate locations shall be the >> responsibility of the Public Works Department. >> It should be noted that in special situations, an APS should not be >> installed because of the adverse affect it could have on pedestrian >> safety as a result of the overall traffic circulation pattern of an >> area, or unusual geometric conditions where an APS would not provide >> the safety benefits necessary for the blind or visually impaired >> individuals to cross a street. It should also be noted that some >> traffic signals cannot be retrofitted with APS without major costly >> modifications. Retrofitting of traffic signals with APS shall be >> subject to approval by the City Engineer. >> Important: APS are utilized to help blind and visually impaired >> travelers recognize when a WALK signal is operating in a given >> direction. An APS may enhance the safety of blind travelers in two ways: >> list of 1 items >> 1. >> Lessens the chance of a blind or visually impaired pedestrian >> misjudging when the walk phase is operating, thereby lessening the >> chance of accidentally crossing against a signal. >> list end >> list of 1 items >> 2. >> Helps blind and visually impaired pedestrians recognize immediately >> when the walk phase begins, permitting them to cross the street in a >> timely fashion, thereby lessening the chance of being in the >> intersection when the signal changes. >> list end >> However, it is important to recognize that the APS does not and cannot >> assure the blind and visually impaired pedestrians that there will be >> no potential traffic conflicts while crossing when the APS is >> operating. In particular, the blind and visually impaired pedestrians >> should be aware of at least four possible conflicts. >> list of 4 items >> 1. >> Vehicles may be still clearing the intersection when the APS comes on. >> 2. >> Vehicles may fail to stop for the red light. This is particularly >> common for motorists attempting to enter on a yellow light. >> 3. >> Motorists may stop and make a right turn on red while watching traffic >> on their left but may fail to notice pedestrians on their right. >> 4. >> Vehicles may have right and left turns on the same phase as the >> pedestrian. >> list end >> Because of these potential conflicts, it is important that the blind >> or visually impaired traveler exercise due caution for his or her >> well-being when crossing a street, whether or not it is equipped with >> APS. It is especially important that blind and visually impaired >> travelers be properly trained by certified orientation and mobility >> specialists in safe travel techniques on the public right-of-way. >> EVALUATION PROCEDURE (See attached "Evaluation Form.") The following >> basic considerations and evaluation factors shall be utilized to >> determine whether a location is eligible to be a candidate for APS and >> to determine its relative position on the priority list. Evaluation >> and scoring of factors will be conducted by an evaluation team >> consisting of a certified orientation-mobility specialist, a visually >> impaired/blind traveler and a traffic engineer. Candidate locations >> shall be requested by the City of Fresno Disability Advisory >> Commission, its working groups, and constituent requests to the ADA >> Coordinator's office. >> Candidate locations will be evaluated by means of the sample >> evaluation sheet attached. >> I. BASIC CONSIDERATIONS: >> APS normally will be considered for installation only if the following >> conditions are met: >> list of 5 items >> A. >> Intersections must be signalized. >> B. >> Signals must be susceptible to retrofitting. >> C. >> Signals should be equipped with pedestrian signal actuations. (See >> also section on "Signals without Pedestrian Actuations.") D. >> Location must be suitable to installation of audible signals, in terms >> of surrounding land use, noise level and neighborhood acceptance. >> E. >> There must be a demonstrated need for the audible signals in the form >> of a request from an individual or group that would use the audible >> signal. >> list end >> II EVALUATION FACTORS >> The following factors shall be used to establish a priority listing >> for potential audible traffic signal candidates. Candidates will be >> arranged in priority order of those with the highest total points (100 >> points >> maximum) on top and then in descending order. The scoring of factors >> will be conducted by an evaluation team consistent of a mobility >> specialist, a visually impaired/blind traveler and a traffic engineer. >> If the request for an APS was made by a deaf blind individual, or by >> representative of an organization serving deaf blind pedestrians in >> order to improve access in their geographic area, the evaluation team >> may also include a deaf blind rater. The decision whether to include a >> deaf blind rater will be made by the City Engineer. >> A) Intersection Safety >> 1. Accident Records: Past pedestrian accident experience at the >> intersection will be used as an indication of potential safety >> performance. Points will be based on pedestrian accidents reported by >> the City of Fresno's Police Department. >> >> table with 3 columns and 6 rows >> Pedestrian Accidents >> Period >> Points >> 1 >> 4 years >> 1 >> 2 >> 4 years >> 2 >> 3 >> 4 years >> 3 >> 4 >> 4 years >> 4 >> 5 or more >> 4 years >> 5 >> table end >> >> 2. Intersection Configuration: The number of approaches to an >> intersection and their geometric configuration (offset, skewed, etc.) >> affect the ability of the blind and visually impaired persons crossing >> the roadway. >> In particular, traffic at 3-leg intersections tends not to provide >> adequate audible clues for the blind to permit them to effectively >> judge the signal phase. >> >> table with 2 columns and 6 rows >> Configuration >> Points >> 4-leg right angle intersection >> 1 >> 3-leg T-intersection >> 2 >> 3 or 4-leg skewed intersection >> 3 >> 4-leg offset intersection >> 4 >> Other complex or multiple leg intersections >> 5 >> table end >> >> Note: Intersections with 5 or more legs will require special design. >> 3. Intersection Signalization: Pre-timed intersections are the easiest >> for blind pedestrian because the phase interval is constant and can be >> observed over time. Vehicle actuated intersections are more difficult, >> because the pedestrian interval may be of different lengths or skipped >> all together. Split-phasing can provide confusing auditory >> information, as a traveler may interpret left-turning vehicles as a >> parallel traffic surge. >> >> table with 2 columns and 5 rows >> Signalization >> Points >> Pre-timed >> 0 >> Vehicle Actuated >> 2 >> Split Phasing >> 4 >> Exclusive Ped Phase (for future reference) >> 5 >> table end >> >> 4. >> Width of Crossing: >> Wider streets are more difficult for blind travelers to cross. If each >> leg of the intersection has a different width, points will be assigned >> on the basis of the widest street on which pedestrians are permitted >> to cross. >> Crossing >> width will be measured at the point pedestrians normally cross the >> street. >> Islands >> and medians will be included in the total crossing distance even if >> they are equipped with separate pedestrian signal actuators. These >> points will be apportioned based upon the greatest width of the >> crossing at the subject intersection. >> >> table with 2 columns and 7 rows >> Width of Crossing >> Points >> 40 feet or less >> 0 >> 40 to 59 feet >> 1 >> 60 to 79 feet >> 2 >> 80 to 99 feet >> 3 >> 100 -119 >> 4 >> 120 feet or more >> 5 >> table end >> >> 5. Vehicle Speed: The speed of approaching traffic reflects the >> ability of approaching traffic to stop for a pedestrian clearing the >> intersection as the lights change. Audible signals help blind >> pedestrians get a timely start at the beginning of the walk phase, >> thereby permitting clearing the intersection in a timely manner. >> Points are assigned on the basis of the 85 percentile speed on the >> fastest approach leg. More points are assigned on the basis of higher >> speeds. >> >> table with 2 columns and 6 rows >> Speed Range >> Points >> 0 - 25 mph >> 1 >> 26 - 30 mph >> 2 >> 31 - 35 mph >> 3 >> 36 - 40 mph >> 4 >> 41 mph or over >> 5 >> table end >> >> B. Crosswalk Characteristics >> These points will be apportioned based upon the highest-scoring >> characteristics of any of the crosswalks at the intersection. For >> example, if any of the crosswalks at an intersection have a median >> island protruding into an intersection, then the intersection will >> receive the two points allotted for that characteristic. >> list of 1 items >> (a) >> Location of Pedestrian Push Button. Pedestrian push buttons that are >> too far from the intersection can present difficulties for blind >> pedestrians. They may make it harder for an individual to use the >> button as a cue for alignment and/or to push the button and cross in >> the same cycle. >> list end >> >> table with 2 columns and 4 rows >> Location of Pedestrian Actuations >> Points >> One or more ped pushbuttons located > 10 ft from curb >> 1 >> One or more ped pushbuttons located > 5 ft from crosswalk extended >> 2 >> One or more ped pushbuttons out of alignment with direction of travel >> 2 >> table end >> >> list of 1 items >> (b) >> Median Islands Blind pedestrians have difficulties interpreting >> traffic clues at medians and islands. Efforts should be made to permit >> the blind to cross in one continuous movement. In such cases, signal >> timing should be extended to accommodate the full crossing. Divided >> streets with or without a pedestrian signal actuator in the median >> will be handled as a single crossing, with the width measured across >> the entire street. >> list end >> >> table with 2 columns and 2 rows >> Median Island >> Points >> Protruding into crosswalk, or cut through. >> 2 >> table end >> >> list of 1 items >> (c) >> Alignment of Crosswalk. A skewed crosswalk is one in which the >> direction of travel on the crosswalk differs from that on the >> approaching sidewalk. In this context, skew is not defined as the >> angle at which streets intersect. If a blind pedestrian walking a >> straight line from the approaching sidewalk is headed toward parallel >> traffic lanes, the crosswalk is skewed. If the pedestrian would end up >> deviating from the crosswalk, but would still arrive at the opposite >> corner, the crosswalk is not defined as skewed for this purpose. >> list end >> Skewed Crosswalk >> 4 >> (d) Distance to Alternative APS >> >> table with 2 columns and 6 rows >> Distance to Alternative APS Crosswalk >> Points >> 1 block >> 0 >> 2 blocks >> 0 >> 3 blocks >> 2 >> 4 blocks >> 2 >> 5 or more blocks >> 3 >> table end >> >> (e) Requests for APS >> New requests for APS will be recorded by the ADA Coordinator. >> Requestors will be asked to specify the reason for the request (e.g. >> proximity on a route to school or work), the difficulty they encounter >> at the intersection, and the time of day that presents the greatest >> difficulty. This information may be used by the Orientation and >> Mobility Evaluation team in assessing the intersection. >> >> table with 2 columns and 4 rows >> APS Requests >> Points >> 1 request >> 1 >> 2 recent documented requests >> 2 >> 3 or more recent, documented requests >> 3-4 >> table end >> >> B) Pedestrian Usage >> Blind pedestrians share many characteristics with the sighted >> population in that they go to public places, business, social, >> educational and medical facilities. At the same time they have special >> needs. For example, they may have a greater reliance on public >> transportation than sighted persons. Audible signals should be placed >> with the view of improving mobility of blind persons and making more >> facilities accessible to them. Proximity of signals to these >> facilities may assure a greater degree of utilization. >> list of 1 items >> 1. >> Proximity to facilities for people who are blind or visually impaired: >> This includes the >> Department of Rehabilitation, Social Security offices, Valley Center >> for the Blind and other similar facilities. Special consideration may >> be given to senior citizens complexes or public housing facilities >> that have one or more blind or visually impaired persons in residence. >> Points are assigned on the basis of blocks or distance (1 block equals >> 400 >> feet) from proposed APS site to subject facility. The closer the two >> are, the more points are assigned. >> list end >> >> table with 2 columns and 6 rows >> Proximity >> Points >> 4 to 6 blocks >> 2 >> 3 blocks >> 4 >> 2 blocks >> 6 >> 1 block >> 8 >> At subject facility >> 10 >> table end >> >> 2. Proximity to key facilities utilized by all pedestrians (blind and >> sighted.): This includes >> medical, educational, social, recreational, shopping, commercial, >> business, public and governmental facilities. Points are assigned on >> the basis of blocks or distance (1 block equals 400 feet) from >> proposed APS site to subject facility. In case of multiple facilities, >> points will be assigned on the basis of the closest facility. >> >> table with 2 columns and 6 rows >> Proximity >> Points >> 4 to 6 blocks >> 1 >> 3 blocks >> 2 >> 2 blocks >> 3 >> 1 block >> 4 >> At subject facility >> 5 >> table end >> >> 3. Access to public transit: Because blind and visually impaired >> persons rely heavily upon public transportation (bus or trolley), >> special consideration will be given to those proposed APS sites that >> have heavy general use, serves any of the facilities indicated above >> (Ref. B-1 and B-2), or serves as a transfer point and serves 2 or more >> transit routes within a one-block walking distance. >> list of 1 items >> a) >> Number of transit stops and/or transit routes within one block of >> proposed audible signal site. >> list end >> >> table with 2 columns and 6 rows >> Number of Routes and Stops >> Points >> 1 - 2 routes and 1 stop >> 1 >> 3 or more routes and 1 stop >> 2 >> 1 - 2 routes and 2 stops >> 3 >> 3 or more routes and 2 stops >> 4 >> 2 or more routes and more than 2 stops >> 5 >> table end >> >> b) Passenger usage is based upon the total passengers boarding and >> debarking each day at a transit stop or transfer point within a >> one-block walking distance. >> >> table with 2 columns and 7 rows >> Passengers Boarding and Debarking Each Day Points 0 - 49 0 >> 50-149 >> 1 >> 150-249 >> 2 >> 250-499 >> 3 >> 500-999 >> 4 >> 1,000 and over >> 5 >> table end >> >> C) Traffic Conditions >> Vehicle volumes, traffic distribution, traffic congestion and flow >> characteristics may assist or impede the blind traveler in crossing an >> intersection. Blind pedestrians can function best when crossing >> signalized intersections that are at right angles with a moderate but >> steady flow of traffic through the intersection on each leg and with a >> minimum of turning movements (right or left turns). Traffic that stops >> on each leg during each signal cycle is particularly helpful. Traffic >> that is either light, or very heavy, or erratic in its flow makes it >> difficult for the blind traveler to pick up audible clues as to >> whether the light is red or green. In such cases, audible signals will >> assist in determining when it is possible to cross the street. Points >> may be assigned by the evaluation team based upon their perception of >> the relative importance of each of these factors (which are not >> necessarily dependent upon the total average daily traffic). Candidate >> locations may score up to a maximum of 5 points for each of the >> following factors depending upon overall traffic distribution. >> >> table with 3 columns and 6 rows >> Heavy Traffic Flow >> Vehicles per hour >> Points >> Approach traffic on all legs is in excess of 2,000 vehicles per hour >> during any peak hour. >> 2,000 - 2,999 >> 1 >> Approach traffic on all legs is in excess of 2,000 vehicles per hour >> during any peak hour. >> 3,000 - 3,999 >> 2 >> Approach traffic on all legs is in excess of 2,000 vehicles per hour >> during any peak hour. >> 4,000 - 4,999 >> 3 >> Approach traffic on all legs is in excess of 2,000 vehicles per hour >> during any peak hour. >> 5,000 - 5,999 >> 4 >> Approach traffic on all legs is in excess of 2,000 vehicles per hour >> during any peak hour. >> 6,000 and over >> 5 >> table end >> >> table with 3 columns and 7 rows >> Off Peak Traffic Presence Direction 1 >> Points >> At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, >> expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. >> Constant (б≥ 90%) >> 0 >> At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, >> expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. >> Heavy (70-80%) >> 1 >> At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, >> expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. >> Moderate (50-60%) >> 2 >> At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, >> expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. >> Light (30-40%) >> 3 >> At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, >> expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. >> Occasional (<30%) >> 4 >> At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, >> expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. >> None (no through lanes to create surge noise. >> 5 >> table end >> >> table with 3 columns and 7 rows >> Off Peak Traffic Presence >> Direction 2 >> Points >> At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, >> expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. >> Constant (б≥ 90%) >> 0 >> At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, >> expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. >> Heavy (70-80%) >> 1 >> At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, >> expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. >> Moderate (50-60%) >> 2 >> At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, >> expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. >> Light (30-40%) >> 3 >> At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, >> expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. >> Occasional (<30%) >> 4 >> At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, >> expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. >> None (no through lanes to create surge noise. >> 5 >> table end >> >> E.) Mobility Evaluation >> Each intersection being considered for audible signals should be >> evaluated by a certified orientation and mobility specialist. Based on >> the judgment of the O-M specialist and the evaluation team, additional >> points may be assigned based on observed or special conditions not >> adequately covered by any of the previous factors. This may include a >> heavy right-turn volume, right-turn island, right-turn signals, >> limited cone of "visibility", etc. >> Points >> Mobility and miscellaneous factors >> 0-15 >> Signals without Pedestrian Actuations >> Signalized intersections without pedestrian actuations may be >> considered for evaluation under this priority system, provided the >> following conditions are met: >> list of 3 items >> 1. >> There must be a demonstrated problem or need that can be alleviated by >> the installation of an audible signal in the form of a request from an >> individual or group that would use the audible signal. >> 2. >> The evaluation team must unanimously concur with the need. >> 3. >> Appropriate pedestrian actuation buttons and circuits must be provided >> as part of the APS installation. >> list end >> Accessible Signals at New Signal Installations Accessible signals will >> be considered for new signal installation if it is determined that >> installation is warranted by the criteria established above. >> Public Notice of Installation of Accessible Signals The City >> recognizes that the installation of an APS may be of interest to the >> community, especially residents in the immediate vicinity of the >> candidate intersection. In addition, research has indicated that APS >> are more effectively used by blind and visually impaired pedestrians >> if they have notice of its location and a basic understanding of the >> type of signal installed. >> Accordingly, the Director of Public Works will provide a notice to >> neighbors in a 350 feet radius from the intersection of the proposed >> installation of an APS at that site, and invite concerned citizens to >> contact him in writing. In addition, the Department of Public Works >> will issue press releases and informing the public and organizations >> serving people with disabilities, especially visual impairments, of >> type and location of proposed and installed APS. >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jmccarthy%40 >> nfb.org >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40s >> bcglobal.net >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jmccarthy%40nfb.org > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net > From timandvickie at hotmail.com Mon Mar 16 03:51:43 2009 From: timandvickie at hotmail.com (Tim Shaw) Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 03:51:43 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] comments needed regarding policyforaudiblepedestriansignals In-Reply-To: <52EF5BE098F045CB9C686CB25AFFBB5B@spike> References: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6B26D668@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local> <52EF5BE098F045CB9C686CB25AFFBB5B@spike> Message-ID: yes, the only street i cross regularly that has a median is raised and about 6 foot acrosss so i feel safe stopping there if i feel the red light is going t change soon > From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net > To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org > Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 19:41:00 -0700 > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] comments needed regarding policyforaudiblepedestriansignals > > When I read this this was one of my concerns as well. Most of our medians > here are raised and in some cases they are wide enough to have a bit of > landscaping on them. > Chuck > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "McCarthy, Jim" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 8:59 AM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] comments needed regarding > policyforaudiblepedestriansignals > > > > Chuck, > > You bring up streets with medians, which reminds me of a point in the > > document that I might question. The document says that it is better for > > blind people to complete the entire crossing rather than to wait in a > > median, doing the crossing in multiple parts, usually two. I think that > > when the person realizes that there is a median, he or she is more > > comfortable waiting there. What sometimes happens though is that the > > median is not clearly indicated so a blind person is not sure where in the > > street area would be safe to wait. I know that when I had a dog, he would > > go toward the place with the least obstructions so it was hard to realize > > that there might be a median. Medians that are not raised or otherwise > > distinguishable to a blind person are highly appropriate places for > > detectible warnings and in my experience, probably the most appropriate > > places for them. That, of course, is another topic. > > Jim McCarthy > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > > Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net > > Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 1:17 AM > > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] comments needed regarding policy > > foraudiblepedestriansignals > > > > thanks. Some of the audible signals that have been installed thus far > > installed at appropriate intersections. Others have been installed ast > > places where there is a low volume of traffic and where there is a low > > demand. Apparently they are wanting to have a more a systematic approach > > in place to determine where signals will be installed in the future. We > > have many intersections where there are medians crossing several wide > > streets where they have not been installed. On these I personally prefer > > to at times to divide the crossing in to two sections to pay more > > attention to traffic flow. There is another location where they should > > probably build a pedestrian crossing either above or below ground. There > > is a precedent for a couple of below ground crossings one in downtown > > Fresno that was built in the 60's and one that was just opened a couple of > > years ago to go under railroad tracks that cut through the campus of the > > local community college. > > There have been some above ground pedestrian crossings of major roads and > > freeways to benefit children going to school. As a long-time cane user > > trained long before audible signals were fashionable or feasible I still > > believe that traffic flow is the best audible signal. > > Chuck > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "McCarthy, Jim" > > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > > Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 6:58 AM > > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] comments needed regarding policy for > > audiblepedestriansignals > > > > > >> Chuck, > >> I am happy to talk through this with you off line if you would prefer. > >> Nevertheless, I will offer my immediate thoughts after reading. It is > >> a little unclear what the goal is. This process is to prioritize > >> intersections giving those most in need APS first. I am convinced > >> that there are several signalized (light controlled) intersections > >> that do not need these devices. However, this might be a way to > >> provide APS at all signalized intersections in time and that may be > >> what the Access-Board will come to require. > >> > >> I think it is good to have as a part of the evaluation team a blind > >> person and a deaf blind person when the requester is deaf blind or > >> serves that community. I have always found it problematic though when > >> cities say that the centers blind people use should have some super > >> priority. I lived in Portland Oregon and the west part of the city > >> was hilly with curvy streets. Many were not straight and some had high > >> speed traffic. > >> However, the audible traffic signals were almost never in those > >> neighborhoods (the better ones I might add) because it was assumed > >> that blind people did not frequent them. To me that is a ghettoizing > >> assumption that results from this process. I do think that public > >> transit centers and such places should have greater attention paid > >> though and this document would do that. > >> > >> Finally, in the main, I think that the traffic and street > >> configuration factors are as they should be. I think that the > >> locations with the greatest need based on these factors should be the > >> first to receive signals. The Fresno process is similar to others I > >> have seen, though I would prefer that the evaluation group use the > >> factors and evaluate all > >> signalized intersections using the factors more than whether and how > >> many requests were made. > >> Jim McCarthy > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] > >> On Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net > >> Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2009 8:21 AM > >> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > >> Subject: [blindlaw] comments needed regarding policy for audible > >> pedestriansignals > >> > >> The City of Fresno is proposing the policy shown below to evaluate the > >> installation of audible traffic signals. As this is outside my > >> expertise I would appreciate any comments regarding this document. > >> Please feel free to contact me off list if needed. > >> Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal > >> 1237 P Street > >> Fresno ca 93721 > >> 559-266-9237 > >> > >> > >> APS Policy-03-09-LP .pdf > >> DRAFT ACCESSIBLE PEDESTRIAN SIGNALS (APS) INTERSECTION EVALUATION > >> PROCEDURE BACKGROUND Accessible Pedestrian Signals (APS), also known > >> as audible pedestrian signals, are devices that communicate > >> information about pedestrian timing in nonvisual format such as > >> audible tones, verbal messages, and/or vibrating surfaces. APS are > >> used in conjunction with standard pedestrian activated traffic signals > >> to provide the following information to pedestrians: > >> list of 4 items > >> 징짚 > >> Existence of and location of the pedestrian pushbutton 징짚 Beginning of > >> the pedestrian WALK interval 징짚 Direction of the crosswalk and location > >> of the destination curb 징짚 Clearance signal interval list end They are > >> used to assist blind and visually impaired persons and other persons > >> with disabilities of all ages to cross at designated streets and > >> intersections. > >> PURPOSE > >> The purpose of this evaluation policy is to set forth factors to be > >> used by the City of Fresno's Public Works Department, in cooperation > >> with the City of Fresno's Disability Advisory Commission, in > >> developing a priority listing of signalized intersection candidates to > >> be retrofitted with audible devices that will provide guidance for the > >> blind community and visually impaired persons and other persons with > >> disabilities of all ages to cross certain streets. > >> POLICY > >> It is the policy of the City Council that the retrofitting of existing > >> traffic signals with APS shall be based on factors established herein > >> and that such measurements and computations as may be required in > >> determining priority rating of candidate locations shall be the > >> responsibility of the Public Works Department. > >> It should be noted that in special situations, an APS should not be > >> installed because of the adverse affect it could have on pedestrian > >> safety as a result of the overall traffic circulation pattern of an > >> area, or unusual geometric conditions where an APS would not provide > >> the safety benefits necessary for the blind or visually impaired > >> individuals to cross a street. It should also be noted that some > >> traffic signals cannot be retrofitted with APS without major costly > >> modifications. Retrofitting of traffic signals with APS shall be > >> subject to approval by the City Engineer. > >> Important: APS are utilized to help blind and visually impaired > >> travelers recognize when a WALK signal is operating in a given > >> direction. An APS may enhance the safety of blind travelers in two ways: > >> list of 1 items > >> 1. > >> Lessens the chance of a blind or visually impaired pedestrian > >> misjudging when the walk phase is operating, thereby lessening the > >> chance of accidentally crossing against a signal. > >> list end > >> list of 1 items > >> 2. > >> Helps blind and visually impaired pedestrians recognize immediately > >> when the walk phase begins, permitting them to cross the street in a > >> timely fashion, thereby lessening the chance of being in the > >> intersection when the signal changes. > >> list end > >> However, it is important to recognize that the APS does not and cannot > >> assure the blind and visually impaired pedestrians that there will be > >> no potential traffic conflicts while crossing when the APS is > >> operating. In particular, the blind and visually impaired pedestrians > >> should be aware of at least four possible conflicts. > >> list of 4 items > >> 1. > >> Vehicles may be still clearing the intersection when the APS comes on. > >> 2. > >> Vehicles may fail to stop for the red light. This is particularly > >> common for motorists attempting to enter on a yellow light. > >> 3. > >> Motorists may stop and make a right turn on red while watching traffic > >> on their left but may fail to notice pedestrians on their right. > >> 4. > >> Vehicles may have right and left turns on the same phase as the > >> pedestrian. > >> list end > >> Because of these potential conflicts, it is important that the blind > >> or visually impaired traveler exercise due caution for his or her > >> well-being when crossing a street, whether or not it is equipped with > >> APS. It is especially important that blind and visually impaired > >> travelers be properly trained by certified orientation and mobility > >> specialists in safe travel techniques on the public right-of-way. > >> EVALUATION PROCEDURE (See attached "Evaluation Form.") The following > >> basic considerations and evaluation factors shall be utilized to > >> determine whether a location is eligible to be a candidate for APS and > >> to determine its relative position on the priority list. Evaluation > >> and scoring of factors will be conducted by an evaluation team > >> consisting of a certified orientation-mobility specialist, a visually > >> impaired/blind traveler and a traffic engineer. Candidate locations > >> shall be requested by the City of Fresno Disability Advisory > >> Commission, its working groups, and constituent requests to the ADA > >> Coordinator's office. > >> Candidate locations will be evaluated by means of the sample > >> evaluation sheet attached. > >> I. BASIC CONSIDERATIONS: > >> APS normally will be considered for installation only if the following > >> conditions are met: > >> list of 5 items > >> A. > >> Intersections must be signalized. > >> B. > >> Signals must be susceptible to retrofitting. > >> C. > >> Signals should be equipped with pedestrian signal actuations. (See > >> also section on "Signals without Pedestrian Actuations.") D. > >> Location must be suitable to installation of audible signals, in terms > >> of surrounding land use, noise level and neighborhood acceptance. > >> E. > >> There must be a demonstrated need for the audible signals in the form > >> of a request from an individual or group that would use the audible > >> signal. > >> list end > >> II EVALUATION FACTORS > >> The following factors shall be used to establish a priority listing > >> for potential audible traffic signal candidates. Candidates will be > >> arranged in priority order of those with the highest total points (100 > >> points > >> maximum) on top and then in descending order. The scoring of factors > >> will be conducted by an evaluation team consistent of a mobility > >> specialist, a visually impaired/blind traveler and a traffic engineer. > >> If the request for an APS was made by a deaf blind individual, or by > >> representative of an organization serving deaf blind pedestrians in > >> order to improve access in their geographic area, the evaluation team > >> may also include a deaf blind rater. The decision whether to include a > >> deaf blind rater will be made by the City Engineer. > >> A) Intersection Safety > >> 1. Accident Records: Past pedestrian accident experience at the > >> intersection will be used as an indication of potential safety > >> performance. Points will be based on pedestrian accidents reported by > >> the City of Fresno's Police Department. > >> > >> table with 3 columns and 6 rows > >> Pedestrian Accidents > >> Period > >> Points > >> 1 > >> 4 years > >> 1 > >> 2 > >> 4 years > >> 2 > >> 3 > >> 4 years > >> 3 > >> 4 > >> 4 years > >> 4 > >> 5 or more > >> 4 years > >> 5 > >> table end > >> > >> 2. Intersection Configuration: The number of approaches to an > >> intersection and their geometric configuration (offset, skewed, etc.) > >> affect the ability of the blind and visually impaired persons crossing > >> the roadway. > >> In particular, traffic at 3-leg intersections tends not to provide > >> adequate audible clues for the blind to permit them to effectively > >> judge the signal phase. > >> > >> table with 2 columns and 6 rows > >> Configuration > >> Points > >> 4-leg right angle intersection > >> 1 > >> 3-leg T-intersection > >> 2 > >> 3 or 4-leg skewed intersection > >> 3 > >> 4-leg offset intersection > >> 4 > >> Other complex or multiple leg intersections > >> 5 > >> table end > >> > >> Note: Intersections with 5 or more legs will require special design. > >> 3. Intersection Signalization: Pre-timed intersections are the easiest > >> for blind pedestrian because the phase interval is constant and can be > >> observed over time. Vehicle actuated intersections are more difficult, > >> because the pedestrian interval may be of different lengths or skipped > >> all together. Split-phasing can provide confusing auditory > >> information, as a traveler may interpret left-turning vehicles as a > >> parallel traffic surge. > >> > >> table with 2 columns and 5 rows > >> Signalization > >> Points > >> Pre-timed > >> 0 > >> Vehicle Actuated > >> 2 > >> Split Phasing > >> 4 > >> Exclusive Ped Phase (for future reference) > >> 5 > >> table end > >> > >> 4. > >> Width of Crossing: > >> Wider streets are more difficult for blind travelers to cross. If each > >> leg of the intersection has a different width, points will be assigned > >> on the basis of the widest street on which pedestrians are permitted > >> to cross. > >> Crossing > >> width will be measured at the point pedestrians normally cross the > >> street. > >> Islands > >> and medians will be included in the total crossing distance even if > >> they are equipped with separate pedestrian signal actuators. These > >> points will be apportioned based upon the greatest width of the > >> crossing at the subject intersection. > >> > >> table with 2 columns and 7 rows > >> Width of Crossing > >> Points > >> 40 feet or less > >> 0 > >> 40 to 59 feet > >> 1 > >> 60 to 79 feet > >> 2 > >> 80 to 99 feet > >> 3 > >> 100 -119 > >> 4 > >> 120 feet or more > >> 5 > >> table end > >> > >> 5. Vehicle Speed: The speed of approaching traffic reflects the > >> ability of approaching traffic to stop for a pedestrian clearing the > >> intersection as the lights change. Audible signals help blind > >> pedestrians get a timely start at the beginning of the walk phase, > >> thereby permitting clearing the intersection in a timely manner. > >> Points are assigned on the basis of the 85 percentile speed on the > >> fastest approach leg. More points are assigned on the basis of higher > >> speeds. > >> > >> table with 2 columns and 6 rows > >> Speed Range > >> Points > >> 0 - 25 mph > >> 1 > >> 26 - 30 mph > >> 2 > >> 31 - 35 mph > >> 3 > >> 36 - 40 mph > >> 4 > >> 41 mph or over > >> 5 > >> table end > >> > >> B. Crosswalk Characteristics > >> These points will be apportioned based upon the highest-scoring > >> characteristics of any of the crosswalks at the intersection. For > >> example, if any of the crosswalks at an intersection have a median > >> island protruding into an intersection, then the intersection will > >> receive the two points allotted for that characteristic. > >> list of 1 items > >> (a) > >> Location of Pedestrian Push Button. Pedestrian push buttons that are > >> too far from the intersection can present difficulties for blind > >> pedestrians. They may make it harder for an individual to use the > >> button as a cue for alignment and/or to push the button and cross in > >> the same cycle. > >> list end > >> > >> table with 2 columns and 4 rows > >> Location of Pedestrian Actuations > >> Points > >> One or more ped pushbuttons located > 10 ft from curb > >> 1 > >> One or more ped pushbuttons located > 5 ft from crosswalk extended > >> 2 > >> One or more ped pushbuttons out of alignment with direction of travel > >> 2 > >> table end > >> > >> list of 1 items > >> (b) > >> Median Islands Blind pedestrians have difficulties interpreting > >> traffic clues at medians and islands. Efforts should be made to permit > >> the blind to cross in one continuous movement. In such cases, signal > >> timing should be extended to accommodate the full crossing. Divided > >> streets with or without a pedestrian signal actuator in the median > >> will be handled as a single crossing, with the width measured across > >> the entire street. > >> list end > >> > >> table with 2 columns and 2 rows > >> Median Island > >> Points > >> Protruding into crosswalk, or cut through. > >> 2 > >> table end > >> > >> list of 1 items > >> (c) > >> Alignment of Crosswalk. A skewed crosswalk is one in which the > >> direction of travel on the crosswalk differs from that on the > >> approaching sidewalk. In this context, skew is not defined as the > >> angle at which streets intersect. If a blind pedestrian walking a > >> straight line from the approaching sidewalk is headed toward parallel > >> traffic lanes, the crosswalk is skewed. If the pedestrian would end up > >> deviating from the crosswalk, but would still arrive at the opposite > >> corner, the crosswalk is not defined as skewed for this purpose. > >> list end > >> Skewed Crosswalk > >> 4 > >> (d) Distance to Alternative APS > >> > >> table with 2 columns and 6 rows > >> Distance to Alternative APS Crosswalk > >> Points > >> 1 block > >> 0 > >> 2 blocks > >> 0 > >> 3 blocks > >> 2 > >> 4 blocks > >> 2 > >> 5 or more blocks > >> 3 > >> table end > >> > >> (e) Requests for APS > >> New requests for APS will be recorded by the ADA Coordinator. > >> Requestors will be asked to specify the reason for the request (e.g. > >> proximity on a route to school or work), the difficulty they encounter > >> at the intersection, and the time of day that presents the greatest > >> difficulty. This information may be used by the Orientation and > >> Mobility Evaluation team in assessing the intersection. > >> > >> table with 2 columns and 4 rows > >> APS Requests > >> Points > >> 1 request > >> 1 > >> 2 recent documented requests > >> 2 > >> 3 or more recent, documented requests > >> 3-4 > >> table end > >> > >> B) Pedestrian Usage > >> Blind pedestrians share many characteristics with the sighted > >> population in that they go to public places, business, social, > >> educational and medical facilities. At the same time they have special > >> needs. For example, they may have a greater reliance on public > >> transportation than sighted persons. Audible signals should be placed > >> with the view of improving mobility of blind persons and making more > >> facilities accessible to them. Proximity of signals to these > >> facilities may assure a greater degree of utilization. > >> list of 1 items > >> 1. > >> Proximity to facilities for people who are blind or visually impaired: > >> This includes the > >> Department of Rehabilitation, Social Security offices, Valley Center > >> for the Blind and other similar facilities. Special consideration may > >> be given to senior citizens complexes or public housing facilities > >> that have one or more blind or visually impaired persons in residence. > >> Points are assigned on the basis of blocks or distance (1 block equals > >> 400 > >> feet) from proposed APS site to subject facility. The closer the two > >> are, the more points are assigned. > >> list end > >> > >> table with 2 columns and 6 rows > >> Proximity > >> Points > >> 4 to 6 blocks > >> 2 > >> 3 blocks > >> 4 > >> 2 blocks > >> 6 > >> 1 block > >> 8 > >> At subject facility > >> 10 > >> table end > >> > >> 2. Proximity to key facilities utilized by all pedestrians (blind and > >> sighted.): This includes > >> medical, educational, social, recreational, shopping, commercial, > >> business, public and governmental facilities. Points are assigned on > >> the basis of blocks or distance (1 block equals 400 feet) from > >> proposed APS site to subject facility. In case of multiple facilities, > >> points will be assigned on the basis of the closest facility. > >> > >> table with 2 columns and 6 rows > >> Proximity > >> Points > >> 4 to 6 blocks > >> 1 > >> 3 blocks > >> 2 > >> 2 blocks > >> 3 > >> 1 block > >> 4 > >> At subject facility > >> 5 > >> table end > >> > >> 3. Access to public transit: Because blind and visually impaired > >> persons rely heavily upon public transportation (bus or trolley), > >> special consideration will be given to those proposed APS sites that > >> have heavy general use, serves any of the facilities indicated above > >> (Ref. B-1 and B-2), or serves as a transfer point and serves 2 or more > >> transit routes within a one-block walking distance. > >> list of 1 items > >> a) > >> Number of transit stops and/or transit routes within one block of > >> proposed audible signal site. > >> list end > >> > >> table with 2 columns and 6 rows > >> Number of Routes and Stops > >> Points > >> 1 - 2 routes and 1 stop > >> 1 > >> 3 or more routes and 1 stop > >> 2 > >> 1 - 2 routes and 2 stops > >> 3 > >> 3 or more routes and 2 stops > >> 4 > >> 2 or more routes and more than 2 stops > >> 5 > >> table end > >> > >> b) Passenger usage is based upon the total passengers boarding and > >> debarking each day at a transit stop or transfer point within a > >> one-block walking distance. > >> > >> table with 2 columns and 7 rows > >> Passengers Boarding and Debarking Each Day Points 0 - 49 0 > >> 50-149 > >> 1 > >> 150-249 > >> 2 > >> 250-499 > >> 3 > >> 500-999 > >> 4 > >> 1,000 and over > >> 5 > >> table end > >> > >> C) Traffic Conditions > >> Vehicle volumes, traffic distribution, traffic congestion and flow > >> characteristics may assist or impede the blind traveler in crossing an > >> intersection. Blind pedestrians can function best when crossing > >> signalized intersections that are at right angles with a moderate but > >> steady flow of traffic through the intersection on each leg and with a > >> minimum of turning movements (right or left turns). Traffic that stops > >> on each leg during each signal cycle is particularly helpful. Traffic > >> that is either light, or very heavy, or erratic in its flow makes it > >> difficult for the blind traveler to pick up audible clues as to > >> whether the light is red or green. In such cases, audible signals will > >> assist in determining when it is possible to cross the street. Points > >> may be assigned by the evaluation team based upon their perception of > >> the relative importance of each of these factors (which are not > >> necessarily dependent upon the total average daily traffic). Candidate > >> locations may score up to a maximum of 5 points for each of the > >> following factors depending upon overall traffic distribution. > >> > >> table with 3 columns and 6 rows > >> Heavy Traffic Flow > >> Vehicles per hour > >> Points > >> Approach traffic on all legs is in excess of 2,000 vehicles per hour > >> during any peak hour. > >> 2,000 - 2,999 > >> 1 > >> Approach traffic on all legs is in excess of 2,000 vehicles per hour > >> during any peak hour. > >> 3,000 - 3,999 > >> 2 > >> Approach traffic on all legs is in excess of 2,000 vehicles per hour > >> during any peak hour. > >> 4,000 - 4,999 > >> 3 > >> Approach traffic on all legs is in excess of 2,000 vehicles per hour > >> during any peak hour. > >> 5,000 - 5,999 > >> 4 > >> Approach traffic on all legs is in excess of 2,000 vehicles per hour > >> during any peak hour. > >> 6,000 and over > >> 5 > >> table end > >> > >> table with 3 columns and 7 rows > >> Off Peak Traffic Presence Direction 1 > >> Points > >> At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, > >> expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. > >> Constant (징�� 90%) > >> 0 > >> At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, > >> expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. > >> Heavy (70-80%) > >> 1 > >> At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, > >> expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. > >> Moderate (50-60%) > >> 2 > >> At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, > >> expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. > >> Light (30-40%) > >> 3 > >> At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, > >> expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. > >> Occasional (<30%) > >> 4 > >> At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, > >> expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. > >> None (no through lanes to create surge noise. > >> 5 > >> table end > >> > >> table with 3 columns and 7 rows > >> Off Peak Traffic Presence > >> Direction 2 > >> Points > >> At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, > >> expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. > >> Constant (징�� 90%) > >> 0 > >> At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, > >> expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. > >> Heavy (70-80%) > >> 1 > >> At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, > >> expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. > >> Moderate (50-60%) > >> 2 > >> At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, > >> expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. > >> Light (30-40%) > >> 3 > >> At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, > >> expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. > >> Occasional (<30%) > >> 4 > >> At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, > >> expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. > >> None (no through lanes to create surge noise. > >> 5 > >> table end > >> > >> E.) Mobility Evaluation > >> Each intersection being considered for audible signals should be > >> evaluated by a certified orientation and mobility specialist. Based on > >> the judgment of the O-M specialist and the evaluation team, additional > >> points may be assigned based on observed or special conditions not > >> adequately covered by any of the previous factors. This may include a > >> heavy right-turn volume, right-turn island, right-turn signals, > >> limited cone of "visibility", etc. > >> Points > >> Mobility and miscellaneous factors > >> 0-15 > >> Signals without Pedestrian Actuations > >> Signalized intersections without pedestrian actuations may be > >> considered for evaluation under this priority system, provided the > >> following conditions are met: > >> list of 3 items > >> 1. > >> There must be a demonstrated problem or need that can be alleviated by > >> the installation of an audible signal in the form of a request from an > >> individual or group that would use the audible signal. > >> 2. > >> The evaluation team must unanimously concur with the need. > >> 3. > >> Appropriate pedestrian actuation buttons and circuits must be provided > >> as part of the APS installation. > >> list end > >> Accessible Signals at New Signal Installations Accessible signals will > >> be considered for new signal installation if it is determined that > >> installation is warranted by the criteria established above. > >> Public Notice of Installation of Accessible Signals The City > >> recognizes that the installation of an APS may be of interest to the > >> community, especially residents in the immediate vicinity of the > >> candidate intersection. In addition, research has indicated that APS > >> are more effectively used by blind and visually impaired pedestrians > >> if they have notice of its location and a basic understanding of the > >> type of signal installed. > >> Accordingly, the Director of Public Works will provide a notice to > >> neighbors in a 350 feet radius from the intersection of the proposed > >> installation of an APS at that site, and invite concerned citizens to > >> contact him in writing. In addition, the Department of Public Works > >> will issue press releases and informing the public and organizations > >> serving people with disabilities, especially visual impairments, of > >> type and location of proposed and installed APS. > >> _______________________________________________ > >> blindlaw mailing list > >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> blindlaw: > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jmccarthy%40 > >> nfb.org > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> blindlaw mailing list > >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> blindlaw: > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40s > >> bcglobal.net > >> > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > blindlaw mailing list > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jmccarthy%40nfb.org > > > > _______________________________________________ > > blindlaw mailing list > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net > > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/timandvickie%40hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live짖창 Contacts: Organize your contact list. http://windowslive.com/connect/post/marcusatmicrosoft.spaces.live.com-Blog-cns!503D1D86EBB2B53C!2285.entry?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_UGC_Contacts_032009 From timandvickie at hotmail.com Mon Mar 16 03:55:31 2009 From: timandvickie at hotmail.com (Tim Shaw) Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 03:55:31 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: as far as web accessibility i hacvent mentioned it before, but io use the high contrast setting in microsofts disability setting on windows, the high contrast settings seeem to cause ALOT of websites to have dificulties, somewebsites, hotmail qwhich is microsots as well until recently, have alot of fiiculties. For instance hotmail use to open the log in screen and the font would end up so large that not even half of a single letter would end up on a screen, they have fiixed that but alot of sites havent.Other sites while im usign the high contrast settinsd alot of the images and buttopns wont load, for instance i rcently use freecreditreports.copm to get my three credit reports and the icons showing which redit report was each wouldnt show up. Who should i take this up wqioth? doe s anyoen have contact info fo rthe people at microsoft iwshould contact about this? > From: jsorozco at gmail.com > To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org > Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 21:11:48 -0400 > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > Angie, > > Forgive the lack of clarification on my part. When I referred to nipping > the problem in the bud and focusing on classrooms, I meant concentrating on > students learning how to develop sites in the first place. Litigation is > costly and can take years. By the time a settlement is achieved further > down the road the landscape of web accessibility has changed to encompass > issues that may not have been an issue in the original case. Packages like > DreamWeaver are already offering features to increase accessibility. I > simply believe it would behoove us to refocus our efforts at targeting the > source of the evolving Internet rather than isolating a few companies at a > time. I am not defending the lack of cooperation of some entities. I am > saying our priorities should be laid out in such a way that maximizes the > money the membership raises to make such litigation possible. On the same > point about priorities, I believe a greater priority would have been our > access to the disability department at the LSAC that goes beyond an e-mail > address. > > Bill, > > No matter how minimal the task may be for the party on the other end, we are > always going to be competing with the expansion of technology. You say it > is not fair that blind people should have to develop special ways of gaining > accessibility. I agree, but we already do this in everyday life. If we are > gauging success on the elimination of special techniques we will forever be > chasing the next barrier and the barrier after that. There is no such thing > as simple service, because the Internet itself is not a simple domain. Up > to a point it really is up to individuals to learn how to remain caught up > with the latest methods of accessing the same information as sighted peers. > Perhaps we could do more to stimulate a dialogue between adaptive technology > companies and major software manufacturers. > > Scott, > > Is it true that the WCAG was last revised in 1999? Am I mistaken in my > perception that Section 508 is singularly dealing with government agencies? > These are genuine points of information I would like addressed so that I am > explaining the situation accurately to other individuals. It would also > help me better understand the role of these standards across the cases the > organization has taken up. At first glance it would appear the documents > are not fully accounting for the ever growing spectrum of Internet > accessibility such as those elements introduced in the Web 2.0 era alone, > but even if these documents are somehow written in such a way as to dictate > every possible technological scenario imaginable, how do we begin to > determine where the line of company responsibility ends and personal > obligation begins. A blind person may very well have difficulty navigating > even a web site that meets every standard imaginable. Can that person claim > a wrong was committed because they themselves are incapable of navigating > the site? > > On that point, I believe a survey was supposedly distributed among > prospective law students asking for feedback on their experience with the > LSAC. I submitted a request for a copy of that survey and never received a > response. My feelings aren't hurt that my input was not collected, but I > would be curious to learn the results of said survey. What trends were > discovered, and how did these patterns correspond to our general standard of > pursuing formal action against a company? The organization may not be > stumbling across web sites, finding them inaccessible and litigating the > next day, but it's a hard case to prove when it seems we are in a continuous > state of isolating one company after another. What have we achieved with > each case? How, for example, has our work on the Target matter translated > over to other major retailers and the Internet as a whole? How much has it > cost to carry the Target case from beginning to present? > > No, our small numbers does not give the majority the right to trample our > rights. No one has argued to the contrary, but because we are smaller in > numbers we should exercise prudence in how we exhaust time and money on the > issue because web accessibility is not the only item on our radar. I would > respectfully ask you in return that you allow time for these questions to be > answered rather than encourage the subject off the list and increase the > risk of ignorance among the membership. > > James, > > What I do not get is why the strength of the Jernigan Institute has not been > exercised to provide training to companies and developers on what > constitutes proper accessibility. > > Dave, > > I've made purchases on Target since 2005. I have never required sighted > assistance, nor have I ever needed to call their telephone line to require > assistance. I have never encountered an invisible button. Does this mean > this invisible button does not exist? Certainly not, but I also did not > think that one's web site viewing changed according to one's geography. > Again, this is an educational point for me, because maybe different screen > readers and different physical locations count for something. > > Actually, that raises an interesting point because not all screen readers > are built equally. Are we relying on a fixed level of screen reader > capacity, or is my persistent request for common standards simply just too > much. > > In closing, I am not sympathetic to companies that do not cooperate with us > when problems are found. I am saying that long-term strategies are > necessary to deliver bigger impacts with our treasury. I enjoy a good fight > as much as the next hawk, but in the oscillating arena of technology I > believe there is a point where we have to assume the role of the educator > and do more to bring about solutions at the foundation level rather than at > the top where both sides are expending valuable resources on a case that > could have been resolved a lot sooner. > > Joe Orozco > > "A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the > crowd."--Max Lucado > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of David Andrews > Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 2:11 AM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > Scott, Joe etc., > > The question of the Target site has come up, and Joe says he > was able to use it. This very well could be true, as sometimes > everything went fine. However, there were instances when the > site put up on the screen a "purchase button" > that was totally invisible to screen > readers. Unless you clicked it, you could not finalize your > purchase. It was not used for all purchases, but was for some. > I know as it happened to me. Unfortunately I do not live in > California. > > Anyway, if Joe didn't go all the way to making a purchase, or > happened not to encounter the invisible button, then he would > think the site was accessible. > > Dave > > At 10:19 PM 3/14/2009, you wrote: > >The standards used are those of WCAG and Sec. > >508. I did not work directly on Target and cannot tell you > exactly the > >access barriers. I can tell you that with respect to filing > >applications to law schools through LSAC on their website, it is > >impossible to fill those applications out independently using screen > >reading softaware. Let me also assure list members that we don't > >simply jump on a website, encounter difficulty, and then sue them the > >next day. A lawsuit is the last resort when the entity is not willing > >to deal with us otherwise. Just because we are a small minority does > >not mean that our right to the mainstream of society must always be > >subservient to the majority's unwillingness to consider us due to our > >small numbers. Unless someone has a new point to be made on this > >topic, I respectfully suggest that we move onto different > discussions. > >Let's also agree to disagree on certain points. > >Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. > > > >LaBarre Law Offices P.C. > >1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 > >Denver, Colorado 80222 > >303 504-5979 (voice) > >303 757-3640 (fax) > >slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) > >www.labarrelaw.com (website) > > > >CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and > >privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you > >may not read, copy, distribute or retain this message. > >If you received this message in error, please notify the > sender at 303) > >504-5979 or slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from > >your system. This message and any attachments are covered by the > >Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. > >----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Orozco" > >To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" > >Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 8:52 AM > >Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > > > > >What troubles me is that my question of accessibility > standards has not > >been answered on the other case against the LSAC. The same > question is > >applicable here. What standard was used to conclude that the web site > >was not accessible? I do not claim to be a genius at manipulating > >technology to serve my needs, but I did not have to try hard at all to > >make Target give me what I needed between 2005 and 2008. So is the > >problem the web site layout, or is it our own technology training? > >Rather than chase every entity with features a few people deem > >inaccessible, would it not be prudent to take our standards, whatever > >those may be, to the classroom, to the software developers, the > >relevant associations raising the performance standards of its > students > >and members? This method of engineering change gives us the > perception > >of a watchdog group. If this is what we have become, and given the > >small margin of the population we represent, I would rather > trigger change at the source rather than at the output. > > > >Joe Orozco > > > >"A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the > >crowd."--Max Lucado > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org > >[mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley > >Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 9:24 AM > >To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > >Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > > >That should not result in you receiving damages of almost $4,000.00. > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: > >To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > >Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 4:35 AM > >Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > > > > >As an individual I am insulted and damaged each time I am > discriminated > >by a business not accommodating my ability to access their > products and > >services, especially on the Internet when I have made sure that I have > >accommodated myself with the most up-to-date software to mitigate my > >needs as a blind person. I should not have to rely on sighted > >assistance to use a product or do without because the greedy > >corporations has chosen the most expedient road to sell their > products. > >I am also insulted that you are posting this question. I have in my > >life time been sold out by too many blind people that thought > they knew > >what I needed and I hope more companies will have to pay damages in > >these types of cases. Perhaps they will then learn how to meet the > >needs of all their customers. Fortunately here in California we have > >some laws with some teeth in them that are enforceable--although these > >teeth still need a good sharpening. > >Chuck > >----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. > >Deeley" > >To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > >Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 6:22 PM > >Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > > > > >That is a lawyer talking who makes his living in rediculous situations > >like this one. Again, you show me how an individual was damaged and > >out $4,000.00. > >Steve > >----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott C. > >LaBarre" > >To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > >Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 5:38 PM > >Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > > > > >Violation of civil rights has long been recognized as a form of > >compensible legal damage as well it should be. > >Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. > > > >LaBarre Law Offices P.C. > >1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 > >Denver, Colorado 80222 > >303 504-5979 (voice) > >303 757-3640 (fax) > >slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) > >www.labarrelaw.com (website) > > > >CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and > >privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you > >may not read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received > >this message in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or > >slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. > >This message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic > >Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. > >----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. > >Deeley" > >To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > >Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 2:31 PM > >Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > > > > >>This is ridiculous! How were these people damaged? > >>----- Original Message ----- From: "Mehgan Sidhu" > >>To: > >>Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 3:20 PM > >>Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > >> > >> > >>>To answer the recent questions posted about the Target case, > >the final > >>>settlement hearing took place on March 9th. I understand from our > >>>counsel in California, Larry Paradis of DRA and Josh > >Konecky, that there > >>>were no objectors and the Judge was pleased with the > >resolution of the > >>>case. The settlement is not fully "final" until the time for any > >>>appeals has run - which is about 30 days. Given there were > >no objectors, > >>>it is highly unlikely that any appeals will be filed. The > >judge has not > >>>yet made a ruling on attorneys fees, but that will not hold up > >>>enforcement of the settlement. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>As for disbursements, assuming there are no appeals, the claims > >>>administer has 45 days from the final approval date to > >disburse funds to > >>>claimants. I do not know the final tally of approved > >claimants, though I > >>>think there were several hundred. I will pass that > information along > >>>when I have it. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>We will now be working on enforcing the settlement commitments that > >>>Target made with respect to the accessibility of the website. > >>> > >>> > >>>Mehgan Sidhu > >>>Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP > >>>120 East Baltimore Street, Suite 1700 Baltimore, Maryland 21202 > >>>410-962-1030 x1324 > >>>410-385-0869 (fax) > >>>ms at browngold.com > >>>www.browngold.com > >>> > >>>Confidentiality Notice > >>> > >>>This e-mail may contain confidential information that may > >also be legally > >>>privileged and that is intended only for the use of the addressee(s) > >>>named above. If you are not the intended recipient or an authorized > >>>agent of the recipient, please be advised that any dissemination or > >>>copying of this e-mail, or taking of any action in reliance on the > >>>information contained herein, is strictly prohibited. If you have > >>>received this e-mail in error, please notify me immediately > >by use of the > >>>reply button, and then delete the e-mail from your system. > >Thank you! > >>> > >>>_______________________________________________ > >>>blindlaw mailing list > >>>blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>>blindlaw: > >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep > >.deeley%40insightbb.com > >> > >> > >---------------------------------------------------------------- > >---------------- > >> > >> > >> > >>No virus found in this incoming message. > >>Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > >>Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release > >Date: 03/13/09 > >>05:59:00 > >> > >> > >>_______________________________________________ > >>blindlaw mailing list > >>blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>blindlaw: > >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/slabar > >re%40labarrelaw.com > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >blindlaw mailing list > >blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >blindlaw: > >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep > >.deeley%40insightbb.com > > > > > >---------------------------------------------------------------- > >---------------- > > > > > > > >No virus found in this incoming message. > >Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > >Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release > >Date: 03/13/09 > >05:59:00 > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >blindlaw mailing list > >blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >blindlaw: > >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugm > >an%40sbcglobal.net > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >blindlaw mailing list > >blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >blindlaw: > >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep > >.deeley%40insightbb.com > > > > > >---------------------------------------------------------------- > >---------------- > > > > > > > >No virus found in this incoming message. > >Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > >Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release > >Date: 03/13/09 > >05:59:00 > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >blindlaw mailing list > >blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >blindlaw: > >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jsoroz > >co%40gmail.com > > > > > >__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > >signature database 3936 (20090313) __________ > > > >The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > > >http://www.eset.com > > > > > > > >__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > >signature database 3936 (20090313) __________ > > > >The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > > >http://www.eset.com > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >blindlaw mailing list > >blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >blindlaw: > >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/slabarre%40la > >barrelaw.com > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >blindlaw mailing list > >blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >blindlaw: > >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40vi > >si.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jsoroz > co%40gmail.com > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of > virus signature database 3936 (20090313) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature > database 3937 (20090314) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/timandvickie%40hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail® is up to 70% faster. Now good news travels really fast. http://windowslive.com/online/hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_70faster_032009 From timandvickie at hotmail.com Mon Mar 16 03:57:11 2009 From: timandvickie at hotmail.com (Tim Shaw) Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 03:57:11 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] Multiple LSAT Scores In-Reply-To: References: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6B26D66D@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local> Message-ID: i as well gdid not find the logic pro blems to b e to bad sin ce I was in GT classes since age 3, gifted and talented that is, where qwe diod such problems since kindergarden on and off. I did not however request as much time as i shouldf have for thtest so i was rushed in ever section > From: angie at mpmail.net > To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org > Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 20:50:53 -0400 > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Multiple LSAT Scores > > I guess I'm solidly in the minority: I liked the logic games. In fact, I think I got a perfect score on that section. This might have been due in part to all those years I wasted--er, spent in math grad school. (grin) > > Angie > > > > On Sun, 15 Mar 2009 15:43:17 -0400, McCarthy, Jim wrote: > > >I take Craig's point, but I do think that the logic games or whatever > >they are called may actually measure one's ability to apply conditions. > >And though I hated those questions and found them difficult as a blind > >person not to mention just weird, I think that properly using conditions > >may be a valuable thing to do in law school and beyond as a lawyer. > > >Now to the real point though, I imagine that regardless what the studies > >say about the predictive power of the LSAT, the one thing it possibly > >can do is rank candidates. There is so much variability among the > >higher education institutions of this country that grades are probably > >somewhat meaningless because we really don't know what kind of effort a > >student must put forward to get a particular grade at any particular > >institution. The possible answer to this is to make us all take the > >same dull test and compare us that way. > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] > >On Behalf Of Craig Borne > >Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 1:51 PM > >To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' > >Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Multiple LSAT Scores > > >John, > > >I agree. Never in my 3 1/2 years of law school was I asked to calculate > >how many green M and Ms would fit in a school locker. > > >Craig > > >Craig Borne > >Baltimore, Maryland > >"A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial > >appearance of being right, and raises at first a formidable outcry in > >defense of custom." --Thomas Paine, Common Sense > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] > >On Behalf Of John > >Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 6:10 PM > >To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' > >Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Multiple LSAT Scores > > >It has been several years since I had the displeasure of taking the > >LSAT, but something I have always pondered about is this fictional > >belief that the LSAT score is an accurate predictor of how a student > >will do in his first year of law school. I personally believe that it is > >not a predictor of anything, much less, how a person will perform in law > >school. > >I am sure that there a thousand studies supporting and refuting this > >claim. > >I just find it interesting. > >Take care, > >John > > >John A. Ramsey Jr., Esq. > > >Gainesville, FL 32609 > > >Phone: (352) 505-6642 > > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] > >On Behalf Of Angie Matney > >Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 5:17 PM > >To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > >Subject: [blindlaw] Multiple LSAT Scores > > > >Here's what UVA's web site says: > > >What is your policy on multiple LSAT scores? > >The ABA requires law schools to report LSAT information using an > >admitted students highest score, so that is the score to which we give > >the most weight. We evaluate all information submitted as part of the > >application for admission, however, including all scores earned on the > >LSAT. Studies by the Law School Admission Council suggest that in most > >cases the average score is the most accurate predictor of academic > >performance in the first year of law school, so we encourage applicants > >with a significant difference in LSAT scores to include with their > >application any information that may be relevant to the interpretation > >of test results, such as illness, testing conditions, or other > >circumstances that may have affected LSAT performance. > > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >blindlaw mailing list > >blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >blindlaw: > >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joramsey%40cox > >.net > > > >_______________________________________________ > >blindlaw mailing list > >blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >blindlaw: > >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdborne%40gmai > >l.co > >m > > > >_______________________________________________ > >blindlaw mailing list > >blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >blindlaw: > >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jmccarthy%40nf > >b.org > > >_______________________________________________ > >blindlaw mailing list > >blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie%40mpmail.net > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/timandvickie%40hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live™ Contacts: Organize your contact list. http://windowslive.com/connect/post/marcusatmicrosoft.spaces.live.com-Blog-cns!503D1D86EBB2B53C!2285.entry?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_UGC_Contacts_032009 From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Mon Mar 16 07:20:49 2009 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 00:20:49 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] LSAC Reader Settlement In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <08890DCEE5D94AAB801E3BCF1EA35E85@spike> many corporate sites that use a captcha or random code that you are referring to can provide an audio alternative. This is done on many major web sites such as Pay Pal EBay and MSN. this would address the problem as you can hear the code that appears on the screen. The problem with some of the audio alternatives is that the voices are intentionally garbled and spoken in different pitches and dialects which causes confusion. This is done to try to simulate the appearance of what is on the screen as it is apparently somewhat garbled in appearance. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. Deeley" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 1:56 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAC Reader Settlement > Rod, How would you suggest that I approach a bank who has a Web site that > is not quite accessible. They want the user to type in a random code. Of > course, the Window-eyes will not read the code. I've talked with them > twice and they can't seem to understand how to fix the problem. I'm > planning to have a AT professional speak with them in the near future. I > really don't want to seem adversarial when I speak with them again. > > Steve > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Rod Alcidonis" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 10:02 AM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAC Reader Settlement > > >>I only hope that for that reason, Angie, that any settlement with them >>this >> time has more teeth. Otherwise, we will be in the same place 5-10 years >> down >> the road. The LSAC has demonstrated times and again that they are not an >> entity willing to abide by legal obligations. Not only in not publishing >> their reader policy to test takers but in granting other >> accommodations -- >> where there is no standard to guide the process. I had accommodations >> that >> were granted to me because of blindness and denied to others also because >> of >> blindness. >> >> Rod Alcidonis >> Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009. >> Roger Williams University School of Law >> 10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 >> Bristol, RI 02809 >> Cell: 718-704-4651 >> Home: 401-824-8685 >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Angie Matney" >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 6:41 AM >> Subject: [blindlaw] LSAC Reader Settlement >> >> >>> Did LSAC ever put anything up on their site concerning their reader >>> policy? If memory serves, you had to request that this info be sent to >>> you >>> when I was applying. >>> >>> Angie >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail.com >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/2001 - Release Date: 03/14/09 > 06:54:00 > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net From joramsey at cox.net Mon Mar 16 08:12:25 2009 From: joramsey at cox.net (John ) Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 04:12:25 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] LSAC Reader Settlement In-Reply-To: <08890DCEE5D94AAB801E3BCF1EA35E85@spike> Message-ID: <7739ABEF6A0C423E9B86E30512012A5A@noneeb869fea9a> Chuck, And the garbled audio is exactly what defeats the purpose of the so called alternative. Have many of you had any real success using the audio alternatives. I know I certainly haven't and that is one of the big things I would like to see addressed is some way to get screen readers to read those captias. John John A. Ramsey Jr., Esq. Gainesville, FL 32609 Phone: (352) 505-6642 -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 3:21 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAC Reader Settlement many corporate sites that use a captcha or random code that you are referring to can provide an audio alternative. This is done on many major web sites such as Pay Pal EBay and MSN. this would address the problem as you can hear the code that appears on the screen. The problem with some of the audio alternatives is that the voices are intentionally garbled and spoken in different pitches and dialects which causes confusion. This is done to try to simulate the appearance of what is on the screen as it is apparently somewhat garbled in appearance. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. Deeley" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 1:56 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAC Reader Settlement > Rod, How would you suggest that I approach a bank who has a Web site > that > is not quite accessible. They want the user to type in a random code. Of > course, the Window-eyes will not read the code. I've talked with them > twice and they can't seem to understand how to fix the problem. I'm > planning to have a AT professional speak with them in the near future. I > really don't want to seem adversarial when I speak with them again. > > Steve > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Rod Alcidonis" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 10:02 AM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAC Reader Settlement > > >>I only hope that for that reason, Angie, that any settlement with them >>this >> time has more teeth. Otherwise, we will be in the same place 5-10 years >> down >> the road. The LSAC has demonstrated times and again that they are not an >> entity willing to abide by legal obligations. Not only in not publishing >> their reader policy to test takers but in granting other >> accommodations -- >> where there is no standard to guide the process. I had accommodations >> that >> were granted to me because of blindness and denied to others also because >> of >> blindness. >> >> Rod Alcidonis >> Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009. >> Roger Williams University School of Law >> 10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 >> Bristol, RI 02809 >> Cell: 718-704-4651 >> Home: 401-824-8685 >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Angie Matney" >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 6:41 AM >> Subject: [blindlaw] LSAC Reader Settlement >> >> >>> Did LSAC ever put anything up on their site concerning their reader >>> policy? If memory serves, you had to request that this info be sent >>> to you when I was applying. >>> >>> Angie >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail. com >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in sightbb.com > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/2001 - Release Date: > 03/14/09 > 06:54:00 > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob al.net _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joramsey%40cox.net From everett at zufelt.ca Mon Mar 16 09:18:23 2009 From: everett at zufelt.ca (E.J. Zufelt) Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 06:18:23 -0300 Subject: [blindlaw] LSAC Reader Settlement In-Reply-To: <7739ABEF6A0C423E9B86E30512012A5A@noneeb869fea9a> References: <7739ABEF6A0C423E9B86E30512012A5A@noneeb869fea9a> Message-ID: <4A500E46-5A53-43F0-B5F2-2BFF27FAAE34@zufelt.ca> Good morning, Have you tried to use the Firefox Webvisum plugin for solving the bank CAPTCHA? Everett On 16-Mar-09, at 5:12 AM, John wrote: > Chuck, > And the garbled audio is exactly what defeats the purpose of the so > called > alternative. Have many of you had any real success using the audio > alternatives. I know I certainly haven't and that is one of the big > things I > would like to see addressed is some way to get screen readers to > read those > captias. > John > > John A. Ramsey Jr., Esq. > > Gainesville, FL 32609 > > Phone: (352) 505-6642 > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw- > bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net > Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 3:21 AM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAC Reader Settlement > > > many corporate sites that use a captcha or random code that you are > referring to can provide an audio alternative. This is done on many > major > web sites such as Pay Pal EBay and MSN. this would address the > problem as > you can hear the code that appears on the screen. The problem with > some of > the audio alternatives is that the voices are intentionally garbled > and > spoken in different pitches and dialects which causes confusion. > This is > done to try to simulate the appearance of what is on the screen as > it is > apparently somewhat garbled in appearance. > Chuck > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Steve P. Deeley" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 1:56 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAC Reader Settlement > > >> Rod, How would you suggest that I approach a bank who has a Web site >> that >> is not quite accessible. They want the user to type in a random >> code. Of > >> course, the Window-eyes will not read the code. I've talked with >> them >> twice and they can't seem to understand how to fix the problem. I'm >> planning to have a AT professional speak with them in the near >> future. I >> really don't want to seem adversarial when I speak with them again. >> >> Steve >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Rod Alcidonis" >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 10:02 AM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAC Reader Settlement >> >> >>> I only hope that for that reason, Angie, that any settlement with >>> them >>> this >>> time has more teeth. Otherwise, we will be in the same place 5-10 >>> years >>> down >>> the road. The LSAC has demonstrated times and again that they are >>> not an >>> entity willing to abide by legal obligations. Not only in not >>> publishing >>> their reader policy to test takers but in granting other >>> accommodations -- >>> where there is no standard to guide the process. I had >>> accommodations >>> that >>> were granted to me because of blindness and denied to others also >>> because > >>> of >>> blindness. >>> >>> Rod Alcidonis >>> Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009. >>> Roger Williams University School of Law >>> 10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 >>> Bristol, RI 02809 >>> Cell: 718-704-4651 >>> Home: 401-824-8685 >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Angie Matney" >>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>> Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 6:41 AM >>> Subject: [blindlaw] LSAC Reader Settlement >>> >>> >>>> Did LSAC ever put anything up on their site concerning their reader >>>> policy? If memory serves, you had to request that this info be sent >>>> to you when I was applying. >>>> >>>> Angie >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail > . > com >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> blindlaw: >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in > sightbb.com >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> ---------- >> >> >> >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/2001 - Release Date: >> 03/14/09 >> 06:54:00 >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob > al.net > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joramsey%40cox.net > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/everett%40zufelt.ca From joramsey at cox.net Mon Mar 16 09:50:03 2009 From: joramsey at cox.net (John ) Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 05:50:03 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] LSAC Reader Settlement In-Reply-To: <4A500E46-5A53-43F0-B5F2-2BFF27FAAE34@zufelt.ca> Message-ID: <02059BC7B570457D8946FD3E1668C8B3@noneeb869fea9a> Everett, I have found that the Webvisum plug in almost never works. Apparently there is a form of captia that it is not compatible with and that is the form that seems to be universally used on the internet. Take care, John John A. Ramsey Jr., Esq. Gainesville, FL 32609 Phone: (352) 505-6642 -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of E.J. Zufelt Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 5:18 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAC Reader Settlement Good morning, Have you tried to use the Firefox Webvisum plugin for solving the bank CAPTCHA? Everett On 16-Mar-09, at 5:12 AM, John wrote: > Chuck, > And the garbled audio is exactly what defeats the purpose of the so > called > alternative. Have many of you had any real success using the audio > alternatives. I know I certainly haven't and that is one of the big > things I > would like to see addressed is some way to get screen readers to > read those > captias. > John > > John A. Ramsey Jr., Esq. > > Gainesville, FL 32609 > > Phone: (352) 505-6642 > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw- > bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net > Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 3:21 AM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAC Reader Settlement > > > many corporate sites that use a captcha or random code that you are > referring to can provide an audio alternative. This is done on many > major > web sites such as Pay Pal EBay and MSN. this would address the > problem as > you can hear the code that appears on the screen. The problem with > some of > the audio alternatives is that the voices are intentionally garbled > and > spoken in different pitches and dialects which causes confusion. > This is > done to try to simulate the appearance of what is on the screen as > it is > apparently somewhat garbled in appearance. > Chuck > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Steve P. Deeley" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 1:56 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAC Reader Settlement > > >> Rod, How would you suggest that I approach a bank who has a Web site >> that is not quite accessible. They want the user to type in a random >> code. Of > >> course, the Window-eyes will not read the code. I've talked with >> them >> twice and they can't seem to understand how to fix the problem. I'm >> planning to have a AT professional speak with them in the near >> future. I >> really don't want to seem adversarial when I speak with them again. >> >> Steve >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Rod Alcidonis" >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 10:02 AM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAC Reader Settlement >> >> >>> I only hope that for that reason, Angie, that any settlement with >>> them >>> this >>> time has more teeth. Otherwise, we will be in the same place 5-10 >>> years >>> down >>> the road. The LSAC has demonstrated times and again that they are >>> not an >>> entity willing to abide by legal obligations. Not only in not >>> publishing >>> their reader policy to test takers but in granting other >>> accommodations -- >>> where there is no standard to guide the process. I had >>> accommodations >>> that >>> were granted to me because of blindness and denied to others also >>> because > >>> of >>> blindness. >>> >>> Rod Alcidonis >>> Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009. >>> Roger Williams University School of Law >>> 10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 >>> Bristol, RI 02809 >>> Cell: 718-704-4651 >>> Home: 401-824-8685 >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Angie Matney" >>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>> Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 6:41 AM >>> Subject: [blindlaw] LSAC Reader Settlement >>> >>> >>>> Did LSAC ever put anything up on their site concerning their reader >>>> policy? If memory serves, you had to request that this info be sent >>>> to you when I was applying. >>>> >>>> Angie >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40ho > tmail > . > com >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> blindlaw: >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deele > y%40in > sightbb.com >> >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> - >> ---------- >> >> >> >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/2001 - Release Date: >> 03/14/09 06:54:00 >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40s > bcglob > al.net > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joramsey%40c > ox.net > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/everett%40zufelt.c a _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joramsey%40cox.net From roddj12 at hotmail.com Mon Mar 16 10:19:30 2009 From: roddj12 at hotmail.com (Rod Alcidonis) Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 06:19:30 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] LSAC Reader Settlement References: <02059BC7B570457D8946FD3E1668C8B3@noneeb869fea9a> Message-ID: I have encountered a different form of captia, where the site would say something like: "what's 4 plus 4? Type in the result in the box below." Others would even ask you something like: "how many months are in a year?" I found these to be much more effective than the other alternatives. Rod Alcidonis Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009. Roger Williams University School of Law 10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 Bristol, RI 02809 Cell: 718-704-4651 Home: 401-824-8685 ----- Original Message ----- From: "John " To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 5:50 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAC Reader Settlement > Everett, > I have found that the Webvisum plug in almost never works. Apparently > there > is a form of captia that it is not compatible with and that is the form > that > seems to be universally used on the internet. > Take care, > John > > John A. Ramsey Jr., Esq. > > Gainesville, FL 32609 > > Phone: (352) 505-6642 > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of E.J. Zufelt > Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 5:18 AM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAC Reader Settlement > > > Good morning, > > Have you tried to use the Firefox Webvisum plugin for solving the bank > CAPTCHA? > > Everett > > > On 16-Mar-09, at 5:12 AM, John wrote: > >> Chuck, >> And the garbled audio is exactly what defeats the purpose of the so >> called >> alternative. Have many of you had any real success using the audio >> alternatives. I know I certainly haven't and that is one of the big >> things I >> would like to see addressed is some way to get screen readers to >> read those >> captias. >> John >> >> John A. Ramsey Jr., Esq. >> >> Gainesville, FL 32609 >> >> Phone: (352) 505-6642 >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw- >> bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net >> Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 3:21 AM >> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAC Reader Settlement >> >> >> many corporate sites that use a captcha or random code that you are >> referring to can provide an audio alternative. This is done on many >> major >> web sites such as Pay Pal EBay and MSN. this would address the >> problem as >> you can hear the code that appears on the screen. The problem with >> some of >> the audio alternatives is that the voices are intentionally garbled >> and >> spoken in different pitches and dialects which causes confusion. >> This is >> done to try to simulate the appearance of what is on the screen as >> it is >> apparently somewhat garbled in appearance. >> Chuck >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Steve P. Deeley" >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 1:56 PM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAC Reader Settlement >> >> >>> Rod, How would you suggest that I approach a bank who has a Web site >>> that is not quite accessible. They want the user to type in a random >>> code. Of >> >>> course, the Window-eyes will not read the code. I've talked with >>> them >>> twice and they can't seem to understand how to fix the problem. I'm >>> planning to have a AT professional speak with them in the near >>> future. I >>> really don't want to seem adversarial when I speak with them again. >>> >>> Steve >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Rod Alcidonis" >>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>> Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 10:02 AM >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAC Reader Settlement >>> >>> >>>> I only hope that for that reason, Angie, that any settlement with >>>> them >>>> this >>>> time has more teeth. Otherwise, we will be in the same place 5-10 >>>> years >>>> down >>>> the road. The LSAC has demonstrated times and again that they are >>>> not an >>>> entity willing to abide by legal obligations. Not only in not >>>> publishing >>>> their reader policy to test takers but in granting other >>>> accommodations -- >>>> where there is no standard to guide the process. I had >>>> accommodations >>>> that >>>> were granted to me because of blindness and denied to others also >>>> because >> >>>> of >>>> blindness. >>>> >>>> Rod Alcidonis >>>> Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009. >>>> Roger Williams University School of Law >>>> 10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 >>>> Bristol, RI 02809 >>>> Cell: 718-704-4651 >>>> Home: 401-824-8685 >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Angie Matney" >>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>> Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 6:41 AM >>>> Subject: [blindlaw] LSAC Reader Settlement >>>> >>>> >>>>> Did LSAC ever put anything up on their site concerning their reader >>>>> policy? If memory serves, you had to request that this info be sent >>>>> to you when I was applying. >>>>> >>>>> Angie >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> blindlaw: >>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40ho >> tmail >> . >> com >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deele >> y%40in >> sightbb.com >>> >>> >>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> - >>> ---------- >>> >>> >>> >>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>> Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/2001 - Release Date: >>> 03/14/09 06:54:00 >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40s >> bcglob >> al.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joramsey%40c >> ox.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/everett%40zufelt.c > a > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joramsey%40cox.net > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail.com > From angie at mpmail.net Mon Mar 16 11:22:28 2009 From: angie at mpmail.net (Angie Matney) Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 07:22:28 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Multiple LSAT Scores In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hey=20Tim, I=20only=20wish=20I'd=20done=20as=20well=20on=20the=20other=20parts.=20(gr= in) Angie On=20Mon,=2016=20Mar=202009=2003:57:11=20+0000,=20Tim=20Shaw=20wrote: >i=20as=20well=20gdid=20not=20find=20the=20logic=20pro=20blems=20to=20b=20= e=20to=20bad=20sin=20ce=20I=20was=20in=20GT=20classes=20since=20age=203,=20= gifted=20and=20talented=20that=20is,=20where=20qwe=20diod=20such=20problem= s=20since=20kindergarden=20on=20and=20off.=20I=20did=20not=20however=20req= uest=20as=20much=20time=20as=20i=20shouldf=20=20 have=20for=20thtest=20so=20i=20was=20rushed=20in=20ever=20section >=20 >>=20From:=20angie at mpmail.net >>=20To:=20blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>=20Date:=20Sun,=2015=20Mar=202009=2020:50:53=20-0400 >>=20Subject:=20Re:=20[blindlaw]=20Multiple=20LSAT=20Scores >>=20 >>=20I=20guess=20I'm=20solidly=20in=20the=20minority:=20I=20liked=20the=20= logic=20games.=20In=20fact,=20I=20think=20I=20got=20a=20perfect=20score=20= on=20that=20section.=20This=20might=20have=20been=20due=20in=20part=20to=20= all=20those=20years=20I=20wasted--er,=20spent=20in=20math=20grad=20school.= =20(grin) >>=20 >>=20Angie >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20On=20Sun,=2015=20Mar=202009=2015:43:17=20-0400,=20McCarthy,=20Jim=20w= rote: >>=20 >>=20>I=20take=20Craig's=20point,=20but=20I=20do=20think=20that=20the=20lo= gic=20games=20or=20whatever >>=20>they=20are=20called=20may=20actually=20measure=20one's=20ability=20t= o=20apply=20conditions. >>=20>And=20though=20I=20hated=20those=20questions=20and=20found=20them=20= difficult=20as=20a=20blind >>=20>person=20not=20to=20mention=20just=20weird,=20I=20think=20that=20pro= perly=20using=20conditions >>=20>may=20be=20a=20valuable=20thing=20to=20do=20in=20law=20school=20and=20= beyond=20as=20a=20lawyer.=20 >>=20 >>=20>Now=20to=20the=20real=20point=20though,=20I=20imagine=20that=20regar= dless=20what=20the=20studies >>=20>say=20about=20the=20predictive=20power=20of=20the=20LSAT,=20the=20on= e=20thing=20it=20possibly >>=20>can=20do=20is=20rank=20candidates.=20There=20is=20so=20much=20variab= ility=20among=20the >>=20>higher=20education=20institutions=20of=20this=20country=20that=20gra= des=20are=20probably >>=20>somewhat=20meaningless=20because=20we=20really=20don't=20know=20what= =20kind=20of=20effort=20a >>=20>student=20must=20put=20forward=20to=20get=20a=20particular=20grade=20= at=20any=20particular >>=20>institution.=20The=20possible=20answer=20to=20this=20is=20to=20make=20= us=20all=20take=20the >>=20>same=20dull=20test=20and=20compare=20us=20that=20way.=20 >>=20 >>=20>-----Original=20Message----- >>=20>From:=20blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org=20[mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbne= t.org] >>=20>On=20Behalf=20Of=20Craig=20Borne >>=20>Sent:=20Sunday,=20March=2015,=202009=201:51=20PM >>=20>To:=20'NFBnet=20Blind=20Law=20Mailing=20List' >>=20>Subject:=20Re:=20[blindlaw]=20Multiple=20LSAT=20Scores >>=20 >>=20>John, >>=20 >>=20>I=20agree.=20Never=20in=20my=203=201/2=20years=20of=20law=20school=20= was=20I=20asked=20to=20calculate >>=20>how=20many=20green=20M=20and=20Ms=20would=20fit=20in=20a=20school=20= locker. >>=20 >>=20>Craig >>=20 >>=20>Craig=20Borne >>=20>Baltimore,=20Maryland >>=20>"A=20long=20habit=20of=20not=20thinking=20a=20thing=20wrong,=20gives= =20it=20a=20superficial >>=20>appearance=20of=20being=20right,=20and=20raises=20at=20first=20a=20f= ormidable=20outcry=20in >>=20>defense=20of=20custom."=20--Thomas=20Paine,=20Common=20Sense >>=20 >>=20>-----Original=20Message----- >>=20>From:=20blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org=20[mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbne= t.org] >>=20>On=20Behalf=20Of=20John >>=20>Sent:=20Saturday,=20March=2014,=202009=206:10=20PM >>=20>To:=20'NFBnet=20Blind=20Law=20Mailing=20List' >>=20>Subject:=20Re:=20[blindlaw]=20Multiple=20LSAT=20Scores >>=20 >>=20>It=20has=20been=20several=20years=20since=20I=20had=20the=20displeas= ure=20of=20taking=20the >>=20>LSAT,=20but=20something=20I=20have=20always=20pondered=20about=20is=20= this=20fictional >>=20>belief=20that=20the=20LSAT=20score=20is=20an=20accurate=20predictor=20= of=20how=20a=20student >>=20>will=20do=20in=20his=20first=20year=20of=20law=20school.=20I=20perso= nally=20believe=20that=20it=20is >>=20>not=20a=20predictor=20of=20anything,=20much=20less,=20how=20a=20pers= on=20will=20perform=20in=20law >>=20>school. >>=20>I=20am=20sure=20that=20there=20a=20thousand=20studies=20supporting=20= and=20refuting=20this >>=20>claim. >>=20>I=20just=20find=20it=20interesting. >>=20>Take=20care, >>=20>John >>=20 >>=20>John=20A.=20Ramsey=20Jr.,=20Esq. >>=20 >>=20>Gainesville,=20FL=2032609 >>=20 >>=20>Phone:=20(352)=20505-6642 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20>-----Original=20Message----- >>=20>From:=20blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org=20[mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbne= t.org] >>=20>On=20Behalf=20Of=20Angie=20Matney >>=20>Sent:=20Saturday,=20March=2014,=202009=205:17=20PM >>=20>To:=20NFBnet=20Blind=20Law=20Mailing=20List >>=20>Subject:=20[blindlaw]=20Multiple=20LSAT=20Scores >>=20 >>=20 >>=20>Here's=20what=20UVA's=20web=20site=20says: >>=20 >>=20>What=20is=20your=20policy=20on=20multiple=20LSAT=20scores? >>=20>The=20ABA=20requires=20law=20schools=20to=20report=20LSAT=20informat= ion=20using=20an >>=20>admitted=20student=19s=20highest=20score,=20so=20that=20is=20the=20s= core=20to=20which=20we=20give >>=20>the=20most=20weight.=20We=20evaluate=20all=20information=20submitted= =20as=20part=20of=20the >>=20>application=20for=20admission,=20however,=20including=20all=20scores= =20earned=20on=20the >>=20>LSAT.=20Studies=20by=20the=20Law=20School=20Admission=20Council=20su= ggest=20that=20in=20most >>=20>cases=20the=20average=20score=20is=20the=20most=20accurate=20predict= or=20of=20academic >>=20>performance=20in=20the=20first=20year=20of=20law=20school,=20so=20we= =20encourage=20applicants >>=20>with=20a=20significant=20difference=20in=20LSAT=20scores=20to=20incl= ude=20with=20their >>=20>application=20any=20information=20that=20may=20be=20relevant=20to=20= the=20interpretation >>=20>of=20test=20results,=20such=20as=20illness,=20testing=20conditions,=20= or=20other >>=20>circumstances=20that=20may=20have=20affected=20LSAT=20performance.=20= >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20>_______________________________________________ >>=20>blindlaw=20mailing=20list >>=20>blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>=20>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>=20>To=20unsubscribe,=20change=20your=20list=20options=20or=20get=20your= =20account=20info=20for >>=20>blindlaw: >>=20>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joramsey%4= 0cox >>=20>.net >>=20 >>=20 >>=20>_______________________________________________ >>=20>blindlaw=20mailing=20list >>=20>blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>=20>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>=20>To=20unsubscribe,=20change=20your=20list=20options=20or=20get=20your= =20account=20info=20for >>=20>blindlaw: >>=20>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdborne%40= gmai >>=20>l.co >>=20>m >>=20 >>=20 >>=20>_______________________________________________ >>=20>blindlaw=20mailing=20list >>=20>blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>=20>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>=20>To=20unsubscribe,=20change=20your=20list=20options=20or=20get=20your= =20account=20info=20for >>=20>blindlaw: >>=20>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jmccarthy%= 40nf >>=20>b.org >>=20 >>=20>_______________________________________________ >>=20>blindlaw=20mailing=20list >>=20>blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>=20>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>=20>To=20unsubscribe,=20change=20your=20list=20options=20or=20get=20your= =20account=20info=20for=20blindlaw: >>=20>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie%40mp= mail.net >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20_______________________________________________ >>=20blindlaw=20mailing=20list >>=20blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>=20http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>=20To=20unsubscribe,=20change=20your=20list=20options=20or=20get=20your=20= account=20info=20for=20blindlaw: >>=20http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/timandvicki= e%40hotmail.com >_________________________________________________________________ >Windows=20Live=99=20Contacts:=20Organize=20your=20contact=20list.=20 >http://windowslive.com/connect/post/marcusatmicrosoft.spaces.live.com-Blo= g-cns!503D1D86EBB2B53C!2285.entry?ocid=3DTXT_TAGLM_WL_UGC_Contacts_032009 >_______________________________________________ >blindlaw=20mailing=20list >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >To=20unsubscribe,=20change=20your=20list=20options=20or=20get=20your=20ac= count=20info=20for=20blindlaw: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie%40mpmail.= net From angie at mpmail.net Mon Mar 16 11:26:23 2009 From: angie at mpmail.net (Angie Matney) Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 07:26:23 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] LSAC Reader Settlement In-Reply-To: <7739ABEF6A0C423E9B86E30512012A5A@noneeb869fea9a> Message-ID: Hi John, Have you tried listening to those audio captchas with headphones? I usually listen to my computer with headphones anyway, but I think it makes a real difference in decoding those annoying audio captchas. The most inaccessible forms of verification I have encountered involve several pictures, and a statement like, "Roll your mouse over all the images that are images of cats." Angie On Mon, 16 Mar 2009 04:12:25 -0400, John wrote: >Chuck, >And the garbled audio is exactly what defeats the purpose of the so called >alternative. Have many of you had any real success using the audio >alternatives. I know I certainly haven't and that is one of the big things I >would like to see addressed is some way to get screen readers to read those >captias. >John >John A. Ramsey Jr., Esq. >Gainesville, FL 32609 >Phone: (352) 505-6642 >-----Original Message----- >From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net >Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 3:21 AM >To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAC Reader Settlement >many corporate sites that use a captcha or random code that you are >referring to can provide an audio alternative. This is done on many major >web sites such as Pay Pal EBay and MSN. this would address the problem as >you can hear the code that appears on the screen. The problem with some of >the audio alternatives is that the voices are intentionally garbled and >spoken in different pitches and dialects which causes confusion. This is >done to try to simulate the appearance of what is on the screen as it is >apparently somewhat garbled in appearance. >Chuck >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Steve P. Deeley" >To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 1:56 PM >Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAC Reader Settlement >> Rod, How would you suggest that I approach a bank who has a Web site >> that >> is not quite accessible. They want the user to type in a random code. Of >> course, the Window-eyes will not read the code. I've talked with them >> twice and they can't seem to understand how to fix the problem. I'm >> planning to have a AT professional speak with them in the near future. I >> really don't want to seem adversarial when I speak with them again. >> >> Steve >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Rod Alcidonis" >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 10:02 AM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAC Reader Settlement >> >> >>>I only hope that for that reason, Angie, that any settlement with them >>>this >>> time has more teeth. Otherwise, we will be in the same place 5-10 years >>> down >>> the road. The LSAC has demonstrated times and again that they are not an >>> entity willing to abide by legal obligations. Not only in not publishing >>> their reader policy to test takers but in granting other >>> accommodations -- >>> where there is no standard to guide the process. I had accommodations >>> that >>> were granted to me because of blindness and denied to others also because >>> of >>> blindness. >>> >>> Rod Alcidonis >>> Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009. >>> Roger Williams University School of Law >>> 10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 >>> Bristol, RI 02809 >>> Cell: 718-704-4651 >>> Home: 401-824-8685 >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Angie Matney" >>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>> Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 6:41 AM >>> Subject: [blindlaw] LSAC Reader Settlement >>> >>> >>>> Did LSAC ever put anything up on their site concerning their reader >>>> policy? If memory serves, you had to request that this info be sent >>>> to you when I was applying. >>>> >>>> Angie >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail. >com >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in >sightbb.com >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> ---------- >> >> >> >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/2001 - Release Date: >> 03/14/09 >> 06:54:00 >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob >al.net >_______________________________________________ >blindlaw mailing list >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >blindlaw: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joramsey%40cox.net >_______________________________________________ >blindlaw mailing list >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie%40mpmail.net From rjaquiss at earthlink.net Mon Mar 16 13:42:29 2009 From: rjaquiss at earthlink.net (Robert Jaquiss) Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 08:42:29 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] LSAC Reader Settlement References: <7739ABEF6A0C423E9B86E30512012A5A@noneeb869fea9a> Message-ID: Hello: A big problem with CAPTCHAs is that according to my sighted wife, the letters displayed on the screen are themselves not clearly displayed. A screen reader would need to do OCR on an image accurately and fast enough to deal with time limitations on entering the characters. Regards, Robert ----- Original Message ----- From: "John " To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 3:12 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAC Reader Settlement > Chuck, > And the garbled audio is exactly what defeats the purpose of the so called > alternative. Have many of you had any real success using the audio > alternatives. I know I certainly haven't and that is one of the big things > I > would like to see addressed is some way to get screen readers to read > those > captias. > John > > John A. Ramsey Jr., Esq. > > Gainesville, FL 32609 > > Phone: (352) 505-6642 > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net > Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 3:21 AM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAC Reader Settlement > > > many corporate sites that use a captcha or random code that you are > referring to can provide an audio alternative. This is done on many major > web sites such as Pay Pal EBay and MSN. this would address the problem as > you can hear the code that appears on the screen. The problem with some of > the audio alternatives is that the voices are intentionally garbled and > spoken in different pitches and dialects which causes confusion. This is > done to try to simulate the appearance of what is on the screen as it is > apparently somewhat garbled in appearance. > Chuck > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Steve P. Deeley" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 1:56 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAC Reader Settlement > > >> Rod, How would you suggest that I approach a bank who has a Web site >> that >> is not quite accessible. They want the user to type in a random code. >> Of > >> course, the Window-eyes will not read the code. I've talked with them >> twice and they can't seem to understand how to fix the problem. I'm >> planning to have a AT professional speak with them in the near future. I >> really don't want to seem adversarial when I speak with them again. >> >> Steve >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Rod Alcidonis" >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 10:02 AM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAC Reader Settlement >> >> >>>I only hope that for that reason, Angie, that any settlement with them >>>this >>> time has more teeth. Otherwise, we will be in the same place 5-10 years >>> down >>> the road. The LSAC has demonstrated times and again that they are not an >>> entity willing to abide by legal obligations. Not only in not publishing >>> their reader policy to test takers but in granting other >>> accommodations -- >>> where there is no standard to guide the process. I had accommodations >>> that >>> were granted to me because of blindness and denied to others also >>> because > >>> of >>> blindness. >>> >>> Rod Alcidonis >>> Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009. >>> Roger Williams University School of Law >>> 10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 >>> Bristol, RI 02809 >>> Cell: 718-704-4651 >>> Home: 401-824-8685 >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Angie Matney" >>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>> Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 6:41 AM >>> Subject: [blindlaw] LSAC Reader Settlement >>> >>> >>>> Did LSAC ever put anything up on their site concerning their reader >>>> policy? If memory serves, you had to request that this info be sent >>>> to you when I was applying. >>>> >>>> Angie >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail. > com >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in > sightbb.com >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> ---------- >> >> >> >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/2001 - Release Date: >> 03/14/09 >> 06:54:00 >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob > al.net > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joramsey%40cox.net > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rjaquiss%40earthlink.net From Tim.Ford at cdph.ca.gov Mon Mar 16 14:41:01 2009 From: Tim.Ford at cdph.ca.gov (Ford, Tim (CDPH-OLS)) Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 07:41:01 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target In-Reply-To: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6B839AD9@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local> References: <90478605097E4FFFBD705620CC057167@StevePC> <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6B839AD9@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local> Message-ID: <839F18076C66C345BD1C0A4ACA67A1F60315B460@dhsexcmsg12.intra.dhs.ca.gov> Thank you Mr. Frye for your excellent and patient post that in my mind hits the mark exactly. This is a list for lawyers and other legal practitioners, not a list to require legal professionals to explain/justify the American legal system. Tim Ford -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Frye, Dan Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 3:12 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target List Colleagues: I suggest we stop engaging this gentleman as though his responses deserve a serious or thoughtful reply. Our good faith efforts to treat his comments with respect are only met with what is clearly a political commentary that he wants to express. While he is entitled to have whatever view of the world and civil rights that he wishes, I hardly think that his view warrants exhaustive coverage on this list that is designed to discuss legitimate matters of law, practice as blind lawyers, and the like. Responding to him only gives him repeated opportunities to articulate this hostile world view. He would be better suited to share his perspective on civil rights with a bunch of people who subscribe to his feelings, in a political forum designed for such a purpose. Dan Frye -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 4:52 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target I will guarantee most individuals in our society don't agree with the way damages are calculated. You are a lawyer, so that sort of argument from you is expected, Especially telling others who don't agree with your position or, the position of most lawyers,concerning the calculation of damages in these civil rights cases. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rod Alcidonis" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 2:23 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target If damages are not awarded as a remedy at law, the next option would be to grant some equitable relief like an injunction. No court will ask Target to shut down its website until it make it accessible to the blind. This would be considered economic waste and against the public interest if millions of people are forced to stop shopping on line. In the law's eyes, what the plaintiffs really want is for their civil rights not to be violated. If one accept to go ahead and violate them, the least that the law can afford to those plaintiffs is money. The court knows that money is not primarily what the plaintiffs are seeking, but there must be a way for the defendant to answer to society for its wrong doing. Here, it was by making the defendant compensate the plaintiffs for the harm that it caused, I.E, by making the defendant pay for violating the plaintiffs' civil rights. Keep saying the following outloud you will get it: "the damages was for the violation of the plaintiffs' civil rights, not for any physical pain or frustration in not using the Target website." For further edification of your understanding: Once the court can calculate a dollar amount (hence the amount of the damages award), equitable relief is not necessary and such prayers will not be entertained in a court of equity. Here, the court was able to come up with a dollar amount for the violation of the plaintiffs' civil rights. Steve, unless you accept to place your emotions aside and exercise a little willingness to learn, even for one day, your reactions will continue to come across as being very uninformed. I don't think you want that. That's why some of us are trying to help you here while most have resolved to ignoring your comments. If you continue to persist along the same line in light of the effort that's been made to help you out, I will have to conclude in a very respectable way that you are just an ignorant man. I am sorry. Take care. Rod Alcidonis Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009. Roger Williams University School of Law 10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 Bristol, RI 02809 Cell: 718-704-4651 Home: 401-824-8685 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. Deeley" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 12:41 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target I understand that, however, I just do not agree with the entire concept of awarding damages in this sort of case. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rod Alcidonis" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 9:27 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target Steve: The effort here was to try to help your understanding and educate your logic, not to justify the existence of the legal system. I am afraid that you are still not willing to accept that "damage" as used in the law is a term of art. Meaning, It has a specific legal definition different from normal use. It is different when you say that "my bicycle was damaged, for example. It is a legal recognition that certain harms should be compensated. In this case, the plaintiffs are being paid not for the fact that they were physically damage in the normal use of the term, but for violations of their civil rights. See Denis' e-mail for what the harm was. In the bicycle example, if someone were to break your bicycle, you can receive "damages" as the cost of repair, or replacement of the bicycle. By the way, you are also entitled to enforce your civil rights if you so choose and receive damages. Not every violations entitle someone to such remedy. When a person cannot get damages under the law, that person has the option of seeking equitable relief in the form of an injunction or restraining order against the defendant. In this case damages was available as a remedy so the plaintiffs are getting money. They are getting paid because their civil rights were violated. I hope this further helps inform your comments. Take care. Rod Alcidonis Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009. Roger Williams University School of Law 10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 Bristol, RI 02809 Cell: 718-704-4651 Home: 401-824-8685 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. Deeley" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 9:22 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target That is a lawyer talking who makes his living in rediculous situations like this one. Again, you show me how an individual was damaged and out $4,000.00. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott C. LaBarre" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 5:38 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target Violation of civil rights has long been recognized as a form of compensible legal damage as well it should be. Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. LaBarre Law Offices P.C. 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 Denver, Colorado 80222 303 504-5979 (voice) 303 757-3640 (fax) slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) www.labarrelaw.com (website) CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. Deeley" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 2:31 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > This is ridiculous! How were these people damaged? > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mehgan Sidhu" > To: > Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 3:20 PM > Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > >> To answer the recent questions posted about the Target case, the final >> settlement hearing took place on March 9th. I understand from our >> counsel in California, Larry Paradis of DRA and Josh Konecky, that there >> were no objectors and the Judge was pleased with the resolution of the >> case. The settlement is not fully "final" until the time for any >> appeals has run - which is about 30 days. Given there were no objectors, >> it is highly unlikely that any appeals will be filed. The judge has not >> yet made a ruling on attorneys fees, but that will not hold up >> enforcement of the settlement. >> >> >> >> As for disbursements, assuming there are no appeals, the claims >> administer has 45 days from the final approval date to disburse funds to >> claimants. I do not know the final tally of approved claimants, though I >> think there were several hundred. I will pass that information along >> when I have it. >> >> >> >> We will now be working on enforcing the settlement commitments that >> Target made with respect to the accessibility of the website. >> >> >> Mehgan Sidhu >> Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP >> 120 East Baltimore Street, Suite 1700 >> Baltimore, Maryland 21202 >> 410-962-1030 x1324 >> 410-385-0869 (fax) >> ms at browngold.com >> www.browngold.com >> >> Confidentiality Notice >> >> This e-mail may contain confidential information that may also be legally >> privileged and that is intended only for the use of the addressee(s) >> named above. If you are not the intended recipient or an authorized >> agent of the recipient, please be advised that any dissemination or >> copying of this e-mail, or taking of any action in reliance on the >> information contained herein, is strictly prohibited. If you have >> received this e-mail in error, please notify me immediately by use of the >> reply button, and then delete the e-mail from your system. Thank you! >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release Date: 03/13/09 > 05:59:00 > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/slabarre%40labarrelaw.com > _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release Date: 03/13/09 05:59:00 _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/2001 - Release Date: 03/14/09 06:54:00 _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/2001 - Release Date: 03/14/09 06:54:00 _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dfrye%40nfb.org _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tim.ford%40cdph.ca.gov From slabarre at labarrelaw.com Mon Mar 16 14:54:32 2009 From: slabarre at labarrelaw.com (Scott C. LaBarre) Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 08:54:32 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target References: <7DF12D30A7294ADEAA75754CE0751C02@labarre> Message-ID: <753F548D527149CFBBF781FAEB8C2CE1@labarre> Oh, I wish I had a simple answer to that wuestion. It is always astonishing to me why companies/organizations would rather fight in court than fix whatever problem caused the issue. I have seen this occur hundreds of times in my legal career. With respect to blindness, some times it comes down to a fundamental and great misunderstanding of the capacities of the blind/disabled. Any way, I could go on and on but have not the time to do so currently. Step by step and by a variety of different techniques, we will keep advancing the ball! Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. LaBarre Law Offices P.C. 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 Denver, Colorado 80222 303 504-5979 (voice) 303 757-3640 (fax) slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) www.labarrelaw.com (website) CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Pepper" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 12:41 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target Scott: What I do not get is why these companies are willing to go to court and spend all this money and put themselves into so much risk, when the solutions to these problems are actually just a matter of rolling up the sleeves and rebuilding the website. For instance I just took a look at the Target website. Right now as I type this it has 940 errors in its HTML code and 109 warnings according to the World Wide Web Consortium which sets the international standards the codes used to write websites. This is appalling! Their CSS errors are 38 errors, and 335 warnings. This means that they are not even up to the international standards for writing code properly. There is no excuse for this! The LSAT is using the wrong program to make their PDF files. They are using a program that fragments the content into such tiny pieces that the text cannot be put back together again. It is all gibberish. But this can be fixed! What I do not get is why this is such a problem for people to make their websites accessible? Why are they willing to fight in court, spend millions of dollars in settlement when the solutions are right in front of them! I am just amazed at the waste! James Pepper On Sat, Mar 14, 2009 at 9:19 PM, Scott C. LaBarre wrote: > The standards used are those of WCAG and Sec. 508. I did not work > directly > on Target and cannot tell you exactly the access barriers. I can tell you > that with respect to filing applications to law schools through LSAC on > their website, it is impossible to fill those applications out > independently > using screen reading softaware. Let me also assure list members that we > don't simply jump on a website, encounter difficulty, and then sue them > the > next day. A lawsuit is the last resort when the entity is not willing to > deal with us otherwise. Just because we are a small minority does not > mean > that our right to the mainstream of society must always be subservient to > the majority's unwillingness to consider us due to our small numbers. > Unless someone has a new point to be made on this topic, I respectfully > suggest that we move onto different discussions. Let's also agree to > disagree on certain points. > Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. > > LaBarre Law Offices P.C. > 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 > Denver, Colorado 80222 > 303 504-5979 (voice) > 303 757-3640 (fax) > slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) > www.labarrelaw.com (website) > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and > privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may > not > read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this > message > in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or > slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. This > message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic > Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Orozco" > To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" > Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 8:52 AM > > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > > What troubles me is that my question of accessibility standards has not > been > answered on the other case against the LSAC. The same question is > applicable here. What standard was used to conclude that the web site was > not accessible? I do not claim to be a genius at manipulating technology > to > serve my needs, but I did not have to try hard at all to make Target give > me > what I needed between 2005 and 2008. So is the problem the web site > layout, > or is it our own technology training? Rather than chase every entity with > features a few people deem inaccessible, would it not be prudent to take > our > standards, whatever those may be, to the classroom, to the software > developers, the relevant associations raising the performance standards of > its students and members? This method of engineering change gives us the > perception of a watchdog group. If this is what we have become, and given > the small margin of the population we represent, I would rather trigger > change at the source rather than at the output. > > Joe Orozco > > "A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the > crowd."--Max Lucado > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley > Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 9:24 AM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > That should not result in you receiving damages of almost $4,000.00. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 4:35 AM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > > As an individual I am insulted and damaged each time I am > discriminated by a > business not accommodating my ability to access their products > and services, > especially on the Internet when I have made sure that I have > accommodated > myself with the most up-to-date software to mitigate my needs as a blind > person. I should not have to rely on sighted assistance to use > a product or > do without because the greedy corporations has chosen the most expedient > road to sell their products. I am also insulted that you are > posting this > question. I have in my life time been sold out by too many > blind people that > thought they knew what I needed and I hope more companies will > have to pay > damages in these types of cases. Perhaps they will then learn > how to meet > the needs of all their customers. Fortunately here in California we have > some laws with some teeth in them that are > enforceable--although these teeth > still need a good sharpening. > Chuck > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. Deeley" < > stevep.deeley at insightbb.com> > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 6:22 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > > That is a lawyer talking who makes his living in rediculous > situations like > this one. Again, you show me how an individual was damaged and out > $4,000.00. > Steve > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott C. LaBarre" < > slabarre at labarrelaw.com> > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 5:38 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > > Violation of civil rights has long been recognized as a form of > compensible > legal damage as well it should be. > Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. > > LaBarre Law Offices P.C. > 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 > Denver, Colorado 80222 > 303 504-5979 (voice) > 303 757-3640 (fax) > slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) > www.labarrelaw.com (website) > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential > and privileged > information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read, > copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in > error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or > slabarre at labarrelaw.com, > and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and > any attachments > are covered by the Electronic > Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. Deeley" < > stevep.deeley at insightbb.com> > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 2:31 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > > This is ridiculous! How were these people damaged? >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mehgan Sidhu" >> To: >> Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 3:20 PM >> Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target >> >> >> To answer the recent questions posted about the Target case, >>> >> the final > >> settlement hearing took place on March 9th. I understand from our >>> counsel in California, Larry Paradis of DRA and Josh >>> >> Konecky, that there > >> were no objectors and the Judge was pleased with the >>> >> resolution of the > >> case. The settlement is not fully "final" until the time for any >>> appeals has run - which is about 30 days. Given there were >>> >> no objectors, > >> it is highly unlikely that any appeals will be filed. The >>> >> judge has not > >> yet made a ruling on attorneys fees, but that will not hold up >>> enforcement of the settlement. >>> >>> >>> >>> As for disbursements, assuming there are no appeals, the claims >>> administer has 45 days from the final approval date to >>> >> disburse funds to > >> claimants. I do not know the final tally of approved >>> >> claimants, though I > >> think there were several hundred. I will pass that information along >>> when I have it. >>> >>> >>> >>> We will now be working on enforcing the settlement commitments that >>> Target made with respect to the accessibility of the website. >>> >>> >>> Mehgan Sidhu >>> Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP >>> 120 East Baltimore Street, Suite 1700 >>> Baltimore, Maryland 21202 >>> 410-962-1030 x1324 >>> 410-385-0869 (fax) >>> ms at browngold.com >>> www.browngold.com >>> >>> Confidentiality Notice >>> >>> This e-mail may contain confidential information that may >>> >> also be legally > >> privileged and that is intended only for the use of the addressee(s) >>> named above. If you are not the intended recipient or an authorized >>> agent of the recipient, please be advised that any dissemination or >>> copying of this e-mail, or taking of any action in reliance on the >>> information contained herein, is strictly prohibited. If you have >>> received this e-mail in error, please notify me immediately >>> >> by use of the > >> reply button, and then delete the e-mail from your system. >>> >> Thank you! > >> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep > .deeley%40insightbb.com > >> >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------------- > >> >> >> >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release >> > Date: 03/13/09 > >> 05:59:00 >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/slabar > re%40labarrelaw.com > >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep > .deeley%40insightbb.com > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------------- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release > Date: 03/13/09 > 05:59:00 > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugm > an%40sbcglobal.net > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep > .deeley%40insightbb.com > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------------- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release > Date: 03/13/09 > 05:59:00 > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jsoroz > co%40gmail.com > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of > virus signature database 3936 (20090313) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature > database 3936 (20090313) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/slabarre%40labarrelaw.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b75205%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/slabarre%40labarrelaw.com From b75205 at gmail.com Mon Mar 16 15:47:46 2009 From: b75205 at gmail.com (James Pepper) Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 10:47:46 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] LSAC Reader Settlement In-Reply-To: References: <7739ABEF6A0C423E9B86E30512012A5A@noneeb869fea9a> Message-ID: Yes the visual CAPTCHAs are very difficult to read. The purpose is to make sure a human being is ordering the order and not a machine. The better alternative is to use a Digital Signature. James Pepper On Mon, Mar 16, 2009 at 8:42 AM, Robert Jaquiss wrote: > Hello: > > A big problem with CAPTCHAs is that according to my sighted wife, the > letters displayed on the screen are themselves not clearly displayed. A > screen reader would need to do OCR on an image accurately and fast enough to > deal with time limitations on entering the characters. > > Regards, > > Robert > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "John " > To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" > Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 3:12 AM > > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAC Reader Settlement > > > Chuck, >> And the garbled audio is exactly what defeats the purpose of the so called >> alternative. Have many of you had any real success using the audio >> alternatives. I know I certainly haven't and that is one of the big things >> I >> would like to see addressed is some way to get screen readers to read >> those >> captias. >> John >> >> John A. Ramsey Jr., Esq. >> >> Gainesville, FL 32609 >> >> Phone: (352) 505-6642 >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net >> Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 3:21 AM >> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAC Reader Settlement >> >> >> many corporate sites that use a captcha or random code that you are >> referring to can provide an audio alternative. This is done on many major >> web sites such as Pay Pal EBay and MSN. this would address the problem as >> you can hear the code that appears on the screen. The problem with some of >> the audio alternatives is that the voices are intentionally garbled and >> spoken in different pitches and dialects which causes confusion. This is >> done to try to simulate the appearance of what is on the screen as it is >> apparently somewhat garbled in appearance. >> Chuck >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. Deeley" < >> stevep.deeley at insightbb.com> >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 1:56 PM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAC Reader Settlement >> >> >> Rod, How would you suggest that I approach a bank who has a Web site >>> that >>> is not quite accessible. They want the user to type in a random code. Of >>> >> >> course, the Window-eyes will not read the code. I've talked with them >>> twice and they can't seem to understand how to fix the problem. I'm >>> planning to have a AT professional speak with them in the near future. I >>> really don't want to seem adversarial when I speak with them again. >>> >>> Steve >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Rod Alcidonis" >>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>> Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 10:02 AM >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAC Reader Settlement >>> >>> >>> I only hope that for that reason, Angie, that any settlement with them >>>> this >>>> time has more teeth. Otherwise, we will be in the same place 5-10 years >>>> down >>>> the road. The LSAC has demonstrated times and again that they are not an >>>> entity willing to abide by legal obligations. Not only in not publishing >>>> their reader policy to test takers but in granting other >>>> accommodations -- >>>> where there is no standard to guide the process. I had accommodations >>>> that >>>> were granted to me because of blindness and denied to others also >>>> because >>>> >>> >> of >>>> blindness. >>>> >>>> Rod Alcidonis >>>> Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009. >>>> Roger Williams University School of Law >>>> 10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 >>>> Bristol, RI 02809 >>>> Cell: 718-704-4651 >>>> Home: 401-824-8685 >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Angie Matney" >>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>> Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 6:41 AM >>>> Subject: [blindlaw] LSAC Reader Settlement >>>> >>>> >>>> Did LSAC ever put anything up on their site concerning their reader >>>>> policy? If memory serves, you had to request that this info be sent >>>>> to you when I was applying. >>>>> >>>>> Angie >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> blindlaw: >>>>> >>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail >> . >> com >> >>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> >>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in >> sightbb.com >> >>> >>> >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> ---------- >>> >>> >>> >>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>> Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/2001 - Release Date: >>> 03/14/09 >>> 06:54:00 >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> >>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob >> al.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joramsey%40cox.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rjaquiss%40earthlink.net >> > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b75205%40gmail.com > From stone_troll at sbcglobal.net Mon Mar 16 16:10:21 2009 From: stone_troll at sbcglobal.net (Mark BurningHawk) Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 09:10:21 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] comments needed regarding policyforaudiblepedestriansignals In-Reply-To: References: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6B26D668@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local> <52EF5BE098F045CB9C686CB25AFFBB5B@spike> Message-ID: <2A760F9B-BD1E-42B4-9E1F-C93641E869CE@sbcglobal.net> I don't know if my comments below are germane, but here's what I have experienced: I have never encountered audible crosswalk signals until I came to California, about five years ago. For the previous thirty something years, I crossed streets without such. Because of my hearing loss, I am not averse to the added information such signals give, but I feel they may hinder more than they harm . If a blind person becomes dependent upon the beeps to know when to cross a street, instead of using real skills to cross the street, the potential for dependent behavior and dangerous outcomes is considerably high. Also, it has been my experience--sometimes almost scary experience--that the audible portion of the signal is not always accurate; a "north-south beep," might in fact signal permission to walk crossing an east-west street, if that makes any sense. The upshot is that the beep you think means walk will sometimes mean don't walk, and so any reassurance provided by the extra information is not all that reassuring. Also, with the advent of left turn only cycles, a crosswalk may in fact give false information. I'm not sure that these devices are at a stage where we should be pushing whole-heartedly for them, but I also see their use in a limited capacity. From william.odonnell1 at yahoo.com Mon Mar 16 16:16:49 2009 From: william.odonnell1 at yahoo.com (William ODonnell) Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 09:16:49 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target In-Reply-To: <839F18076C66C345BD1C0A4ACA67A1F60315B460@dhsexcmsg12.intra.dhs.ca.gov> Message-ID: <341709.36520.qm@web30904.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Greetings, I would like to open By saying that Rod, your comments arre very well thought out; Steve, you are looking for a way over on the system and are looking for an excuse to undo an injustice that you felt done to you. Stop looking for handouts and free passes since you are disabled. The world does not work like this. --- On Mon, 3/16/09, Ford, Tim (CDPH-OLS) wrote: > From: Ford, Tim (CDPH-OLS) > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Date: Monday, March 16, 2009, 10:41 AM > Thank you Mr. Frye for your excellent and patient post that > in my mind hits the mark exactly. This is a list for > lawyers and other legal practitioners, not a list to require > legal professionals to explain/justify the American legal > system. > > Tim Ford > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Frye, Dan > Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 3:12 PM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > List Colleagues: > > I suggest we stop engaging this gentleman as though his > responses deserve a serious or thoughtful reply. Our good > faith efforts to treat his comments with respect are only > met with what is clearly a political commentary that he > wants to express. While he is entitled to have whatever view > of the world and civil rights that he wishes, I hardly think > that his view warrants exhaustive coverage on this list that > is designed to discuss legitimate matters of law, practice > as blind lawyers, and the like. Responding to him only gives > him repeated opportunities to articulate this hostile world > view. He would be better suited to share his perspective on > civil rights with a bunch of people who subscribe to his > feelings, in a political forum designed for such a purpose. > > Dan Frye > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Steve P. > Deeley > Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 4:52 PM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > I will guarantee most individuals in our society don't > agree with the way damages are calculated. You are a > lawyer, so that sort of argument from you is expected, > Especially telling others who don't agree with your > position or, the position of most lawyers,concerning the > calculation of damages in these civil rights cases. > Steve > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Rod Alcidonis" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > > Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 2:23 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > > If damages are not awarded as a remedy at law, the next > option would be to grant some equitable relief like an > injunction. No court will ask Target to shut down its > website until it make it accessible to the blind. This would > be considered economic waste and against the public interest > if millions of people are forced to stop shopping on line. > > In the law's eyes, what the plaintiffs really want is > for their civil rights not to be violated. If one accept to > go ahead and violate them, the least that the law can afford > to those plaintiffs is money. The court knows that money is > not primarily what the plaintiffs are seeking, but there > must be a way for the defendant to answer to society for its > wrong doing. Here, it was by making the defendant compensate > the plaintiffs for the harm that it caused, I.E, by making > the defendant pay for violating the plaintiffs' civil > rights. Keep saying the following outloud you will get it: > "the damages was for the violation of the > plaintiffs' civil rights, not for any physical pain or > frustration in not using the Target website." > > For further edification of your understanding: Once the > court can calculate a dollar amount (hence the amount of the > damages award), equitable relief is not necessary and such > prayers will not be entertained in a court of equity. > Here, the court was able to come up with a dollar amount > for the violation of the plaintiffs' civil rights. > > Steve, unless you accept to place your emotions aside and > exercise a little willingness to learn, even for one day, > your reactions will continue to come across as being very > uninformed. I don't think you want that. That's why > some of us are trying to help you here while most have > resolved to ignoring your comments. If you continue to > persist along the same line in light of the effort > that's been made to help you out, I will have to > conclude in a very respectable way that you are just an > ignorant man. I am sorry. > > Take care. > > Rod Alcidonis > Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009. > Roger Williams University School of Law > 10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 > Bristol, RI 02809 > Cell: 718-704-4651 > Home: 401-824-8685 > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Steve P. Deeley" > > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > > Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 12:41 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > > I understand that, however, I just do not agree with the > entire concept of awarding damages in this sort of case. > Steve > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Rod Alcidonis" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > > Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 9:27 AM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > > > Steve: > > The effort here was to try to help your understanding and > educate your > logic, not to justify the existence of the legal system. I > am afraid that > you are still not willing to accept that "damage" > as used in the law is a > term of art. Meaning, It has a specific legal definition > different from > normal use. It is different when you say that "my > bicycle was damaged, for > example. It is a legal recognition that certain harms > should be compensated. > In this case, the plaintiffs are being paid not for the > fact that they were > physically damage in the normal use of the term, but for > violations of their > civil rights. See Denis' e-mail for what the harm was. > > In the bicycle example, if someone were to break your > bicycle, you can > receive "damages" as the cost of repair, or > replacement of the bicycle. By > the way, you are also entitled to enforce your civil rights > if you so choose > and receive damages. > > Not every violations entitle someone to such remedy. When a > person cannot > get damages under the law, that person has the option of > seeking equitable > relief in the form of an injunction or restraining order > against the > defendant. In this case damages was available as a remedy > so the plaintiffs > are getting money. They are getting paid because their > civil rights were > violated. I hope this further helps inform your comments. > > Take care. > > Rod Alcidonis > Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009. > Roger Williams University School of Law > 10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 > Bristol, RI 02809 > Cell: 718-704-4651 > Home: 401-824-8685 > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Steve P. Deeley" > > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > > Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 9:22 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > > That is a lawyer talking who makes his living in rediculous > situations like > this one. Again, you show me how an individual was damaged > and out > $4,000.00. > Steve > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Scott C. LaBarre" > > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > > Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 5:38 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > > Violation of civil rights has long been recognized as a > form of compensible > legal damage as well it should be. > Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. > > LaBarre Law Offices P.C. > 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 > Denver, Colorado 80222 > 303 504-5979 (voice) > 303 757-3640 (fax) > slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) > www.labarrelaw.com (website) > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain > confidential and privileged > information. If you are not the designated recipient, you > may not read, > copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received > this message in > error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or > slabarre at labarrelaw.com, > and destroy and delete it from your system. This message > and any attachments > are covered by the Electronic > Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Steve P. Deeley" > > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > > Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 2:31 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > > > This is ridiculous! How were these people damaged? > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Mehgan Sidhu" > > > To: > > Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 3:20 PM > > Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > > > > >> To answer the recent questions posted about the > Target case, the final > >> settlement hearing took place on March 9th. I > understand from our > >> counsel in California, Larry Paradis of DRA and > Josh Konecky, that there > >> were no objectors and the Judge was pleased with > the resolution of the > >> case. The settlement is not fully > "final" until the time for any > >> appeals has run - which is about 30 days. Given > there were no objectors, > >> it is highly unlikely that any appeals will be > filed. The judge has not > >> yet made a ruling on attorneys fees, but that will > not hold up > >> enforcement of the settlement. > >> > >> > >> > >> As for disbursements, assuming there are no > appeals, the claims > >> administer has 45 days from the final approval > date to disburse funds to > >> claimants. I do not know the final tally of > approved claimants, though I > >> think there were several hundred. I will pass > that information along > >> when I have it. > >> > >> > >> > >> We will now be working on enforcing the settlement > commitments that > >> Target made with respect to the accessibility of > the website. > >> > >> > >> Mehgan Sidhu > >> Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP > >> 120 East Baltimore Street, Suite 1700 > >> Baltimore, Maryland 21202 > >> 410-962-1030 x1324 > >> 410-385-0869 (fax) > >> ms at browngold.com > >> www.browngold.com > >> > >> Confidentiality Notice > >> > >> This e-mail may contain confidential information > that may also be legally > >> privileged and that is intended only for the use > of the addressee(s) > >> named above. If you are not the intended > recipient or an authorized > >> agent of the recipient, please be advised that any > dissemination or > >> copying of this e-mail, or taking of any action in > reliance on the > >> information contained herein, is strictly > prohibited. If you have > >> received this e-mail in error, please notify me > immediately by use of the > >> reply button, and then delete the e-mail from your > system. Thank you! > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> blindlaw mailing list > >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get > your account info for > >> blindlaw: > >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com > > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > > Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - > Release Date: 03/13/09 > > 05:59:00 > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > blindlaw mailing list > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for > > blindlaw: > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/slabarre%40labarrelaw.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release > Date: 03/13/09 > 05:59:00 > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/2001 - Release > Date: 03/14/09 > 06:54:00 > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/2001 - Release > Date: 03/14/09 > 06:54:00 > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dfrye%40nfb.org > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tim.ford%40cdph.ca.gov > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/william.odonnell1%40yahoo.com From william.odonnell1 at yahoo.com Mon Mar 16 16:32:16 2009 From: william.odonnell1 at yahoo.com (William ODonnell) Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 09:32:16 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [blindlaw] LSAC Reader Settlement Message-ID: <217836.63968.qm@web30907.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Another viable solution to this problem is installing webvisum on the lateist version of the firefox browser. Webvisum is an add-on that is found at: www.webvisum.com. Hope this helps. --- On Mon, 3/16/09, Rod Alcidonis wrote: > From: Rod Alcidonis > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAC Reader Settlement > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Date: Monday, March 16, 2009, 6:19 AM > I have encountered a different form of captia, where the > site would say > something like: "what's 4 plus 4? Type in the > result in the box below." > Others would even ask you something like: "how many > months are in a year?" I > found these to be much more effective than the other > alternatives. > > Rod Alcidonis > Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009. > Roger Williams University School of Law > 10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 > Bristol, RI 02809 > Cell: 718-704-4651 > Home: 401-824-8685 > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John " > To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" > > Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 5:50 AM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAC Reader Settlement > > > > Everett, > > I have found that the Webvisum plug in almost never > works. Apparently > > there > > is a form of captia that it is not compatible with and > that is the form > > that > > seems to be universally used on the internet. > > Take care, > > John > > > > John A. Ramsey Jr., Esq. > > > > Gainesville, FL 32609 > > > > Phone: (352) 505-6642 > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > > Behalf Of E.J. Zufelt > > Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 5:18 AM > > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAC Reader Settlement > > > > > > Good morning, > > > > Have you tried to use the Firefox Webvisum plugin for > solving the bank > > CAPTCHA? > > > > Everett > > > > > > On 16-Mar-09, at 5:12 AM, John wrote: > > > >> Chuck, > >> And the garbled audio is exactly what defeats the > purpose of the so > >> called > >> alternative. Have many of you had any real success > using the audio > >> alternatives. I know I certainly haven't and > that is one of the big > >> things I > >> would like to see addressed is some way to get > screen readers to > >> read those > >> captias. > >> John > >> > >> John A. Ramsey Jr., Esq. > >> > >> Gainesville, FL 32609 > >> > >> Phone: (352) 505-6642 > >> > >> > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:blindlaw- > >> bounces at nfbnet.org] On > >> Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net > >> Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 3:21 AM > >> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAC Reader Settlement > >> > >> > >> many corporate sites that use a captcha or random > code that you are > >> referring to can provide an audio alternative. > This is done on many > >> major > >> web sites such as Pay Pal EBay and MSN. this would > address the > >> problem as > >> you can hear the code that appears on the screen. > The problem with > >> some of > >> the audio alternatives is that the voices are > intentionally garbled > >> and > >> spoken in different pitches and dialects which > causes confusion. > >> This is > >> done to try to simulate the appearance of what is > on the screen as > >> it is > >> apparently somewhat garbled in appearance. > >> Chuck > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "Steve P. Deeley" > > >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > > >> Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 1:56 PM > >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAC Reader Settlement > >> > >> > >>> Rod, How would you suggest that I approach a > bank who has a Web site > >>> that is not quite accessible. They want the > user to type in a random > >>> code. Of > >> > >>> course, the Window-eyes will not read the > code. I've talked with > >>> them > >>> twice and they can't seem to understand > how to fix the problem. I'm > >>> planning to have a AT professional speak with > them in the near > >>> future. I > >>> really don't want to seem adversarial when > I speak with them again. > >>> > >>> Steve > >>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>> From: "Rod Alcidonis" > > >>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > > >>> Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 10:02 AM > >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAC Reader Settlement > >>> > >>> > >>>> I only hope that for that reason, Angie, > that any settlement with > >>>> them > >>>> this > >>>> time has more teeth. Otherwise, we will be > in the same place 5-10 > >>>> years > >>>> down > >>>> the road. The LSAC has demonstrated times > and again that they are > >>>> not an > >>>> entity willing to abide by legal > obligations. Not only in not > >>>> publishing > >>>> their reader policy to test takers but in > granting other > >>>> accommodations -- > >>>> where there is no standard to guide the > process. I had > >>>> accommodations > >>>> that > >>>> were granted to me because of blindness > and denied to others also > >>>> because > >> > >>>> of > >>>> blindness. > >>>> > >>>> Rod Alcidonis > >>>> Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009. > >>>> Roger Williams University School of Law > >>>> 10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 > >>>> Bristol, RI 02809 > >>>> Cell: 718-704-4651 > >>>> Home: 401-824-8685 > >>>> > >>>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>>> From: "Angie Matney" > > >>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing > List" > >>>> Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 6:41 AM > >>>> Subject: [blindlaw] LSAC Reader Settlement > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>> Did LSAC ever put anything up on their > site concerning their reader > >>>>> policy? If memory serves, you had to > request that this info be sent > >>>>> to you when I was applying. > >>>>> > >>>>> Angie > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > _______________________________________________ > >>>>> blindlaw mailing list > >>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list > options or get your account info > >>>>> for > >>>>> blindlaw: > >>>>> > >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40ho > >> tmail > >> . > >> com > >>>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > _______________________________________________ > >>>> blindlaw mailing list > >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options > or get your account info > >>>> for > >>>> blindlaw: > >>>> > >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deele > >> y%40in > >> sightbb.com > >>> > >>> > >>> > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>> - > >>> ---------- > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> No virus found in this incoming message. > >>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > >>> Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: > 270.11.13/2001 - Release Date: > >>> 03/14/09 06:54:00 > >>> > >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ > >>> blindlaw mailing list > >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or > get your account info for > >>> blindlaw: > >>> > >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40s > >> bcglob > >> al.net > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> blindlaw mailing list > >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get > your account info for > >> blindlaw: > >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joramsey%40c > >> ox.net > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> blindlaw mailing list > >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get > your account info > >> for blindlaw: > >> > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/everett%40zufelt.c > > a > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > blindlaw mailing list > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for > > blindlaw: > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joramsey%40cox.net > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > blindlaw mailing list > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for > > blindlaw: > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/william.odonnell1%40yahoo.com From stevep.deeley at insightbb.com Mon Mar 16 16:40:20 2009 From: stevep.deeley at insightbb.com (Steve P. Deeley) Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 12:40:20 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target In-Reply-To: <341709.36520.qm@web30904.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <341709.36520.qm@web30904.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <410EC5062B7C49259B7A74FA81F91829@StevePC> What are you talking about dude. We were having an academic discussion and you come in with this garbage! You are apparently unable to discuss the calculations of damages and whether you agree with such damages in a case like this one. That was my point in this discussion. Keep the personal garbage comments to yourself. I've never taken a hand-out from anyone. I've always been employed during the past 35 years. Can you say the same? I do not believe there have ever been any injustices come my way. We all are responsible for our own breaks in life. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "William ODonnell" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 12:16 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target Greetings, I would like to open By saying that Rod, your comments arre very well thought out; Steve, you are looking for a way over on the system and are looking for an excuse to undo an injustice that you felt done to you. Stop looking for handouts and free passes since you are disabled. The world does not work like this. --- On Mon, 3/16/09, Ford, Tim (CDPH-OLS) wrote: > From: Ford, Tim (CDPH-OLS) > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Date: Monday, March 16, 2009, 10:41 AM > Thank you Mr. Frye for your excellent and patient post that > in my mind hits the mark exactly. This is a list for > lawyers and other legal practitioners, not a list to require > legal professionals to explain/justify the American legal > system. > > Tim Ford > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Frye, Dan > Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 3:12 PM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > List Colleagues: > > I suggest we stop engaging this gentleman as though his > responses deserve a serious or thoughtful reply. Our good > faith efforts to treat his comments with respect are only > met with what is clearly a political commentary that he > wants to express. While he is entitled to have whatever view > of the world and civil rights that he wishes, I hardly think > that his view warrants exhaustive coverage on this list that > is designed to discuss legitimate matters of law, practice > as blind lawyers, and the like. Responding to him only gives > him repeated opportunities to articulate this hostile world > view. He would be better suited to share his perspective on > civil rights with a bunch of people who subscribe to his > feelings, in a political forum designed for such a purpose. > > Dan Frye > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Steve P. > Deeley > Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 4:52 PM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > I will guarantee most individuals in our society don't > agree with the way damages are calculated. You are a > lawyer, so that sort of argument from you is expected, > Especially telling others who don't agree with your > position or, the position of most lawyers,concerning the > calculation of damages in these civil rights cases. > Steve > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Rod Alcidonis" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > > Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 2:23 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > > If damages are not awarded as a remedy at law, the next > option would be to grant some equitable relief like an > injunction. No court will ask Target to shut down its > website until it make it accessible to the blind. This would > be considered economic waste and against the public interest > if millions of people are forced to stop shopping on line. > > In the law's eyes, what the plaintiffs really want is > for their civil rights not to be violated. If one accept to > go ahead and violate them, the least that the law can afford > to those plaintiffs is money. The court knows that money is > not primarily what the plaintiffs are seeking, but there > must be a way for the defendant to answer to society for its > wrong doing. Here, it was by making the defendant compensate > the plaintiffs for the harm that it caused, I.E, by making > the defendant pay for violating the plaintiffs' civil > rights. Keep saying the following outloud you will get it: > "the damages was for the violation of the > plaintiffs' civil rights, not for any physical pain or > frustration in not using the Target website." > > For further edification of your understanding: Once the > court can calculate a dollar amount (hence the amount of the > damages award), equitable relief is not necessary and such > prayers will not be entertained in a court of equity. > Here, the court was able to come up with a dollar amount > for the violation of the plaintiffs' civil rights. > > Steve, unless you accept to place your emotions aside and > exercise a little willingness to learn, even for one day, > your reactions will continue to come across as being very > uninformed. I don't think you want that. That's why > some of us are trying to help you here while most have > resolved to ignoring your comments. If you continue to > persist along the same line in light of the effort > that's been made to help you out, I will have to > conclude in a very respectable way that you are just an > ignorant man. I am sorry. > > Take care. > > Rod Alcidonis > Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009. > Roger Williams University School of Law > 10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 > Bristol, RI 02809 > Cell: 718-704-4651 > Home: 401-824-8685 > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Steve P. Deeley" > > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > > Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 12:41 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > > I understand that, however, I just do not agree with the > entire concept of awarding damages in this sort of case. > Steve > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Rod Alcidonis" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > > Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 9:27 AM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > > > Steve: > > The effort here was to try to help your understanding and > educate your > logic, not to justify the existence of the legal system. I > am afraid that > you are still not willing to accept that "damage" > as used in the law is a > term of art. Meaning, It has a specific legal definition > different from > normal use. It is different when you say that "my > bicycle was damaged, for > example. It is a legal recognition that certain harms > should be compensated. > In this case, the plaintiffs are being paid not for the > fact that they were > physically damage in the normal use of the term, but for > violations of their > civil rights. See Denis' e-mail for what the harm was. > > In the bicycle example, if someone were to break your > bicycle, you can > receive "damages" as the cost of repair, or > replacement of the bicycle. By > the way, you are also entitled to enforce your civil rights > if you so choose > and receive damages. > > Not every violations entitle someone to such remedy. When a > person cannot > get damages under the law, that person has the option of > seeking equitable > relief in the form of an injunction or restraining order > against the > defendant. In this case damages was available as a remedy > so the plaintiffs > are getting money. They are getting paid because their > civil rights were > violated. I hope this further helps inform your comments. > > Take care. > > Rod Alcidonis > Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009. > Roger Williams University School of Law > 10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 > Bristol, RI 02809 > Cell: 718-704-4651 > Home: 401-824-8685 > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Steve P. Deeley" > > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > > Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 9:22 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > > That is a lawyer talking who makes his living in rediculous > situations like > this one. Again, you show me how an individual was damaged > and out > $4,000.00. > Steve > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Scott C. LaBarre" > > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > > Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 5:38 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > > Violation of civil rights has long been recognized as a > form of compensible > legal damage as well it should be. > Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. > > LaBarre Law Offices P.C. > 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 > Denver, Colorado 80222 > 303 504-5979 (voice) > 303 757-3640 (fax) > slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) > www.labarrelaw.com (website) > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain > confidential and privileged > information. If you are not the designated recipient, you > may not read, > copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received > this message in > error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or > slabarre at labarrelaw.com, > and destroy and delete it from your system. This message > and any attachments > are covered by the Electronic > Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Steve P. Deeley" > > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > > Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 2:31 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > > > This is ridiculous! How were these people damaged? > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Mehgan Sidhu" > > > To: > > Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 3:20 PM > > Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > > > > >> To answer the recent questions posted about the > Target case, the final > >> settlement hearing took place on March 9th. I > understand from our > >> counsel in California, Larry Paradis of DRA and > Josh Konecky, that there > >> were no objectors and the Judge was pleased with > the resolution of the > >> case. The settlement is not fully > "final" until the time for any > >> appeals has run - which is about 30 days. Given > there were no objectors, > >> it is highly unlikely that any appeals will be > filed. The judge has not > >> yet made a ruling on attorneys fees, but that will > not hold up > >> enforcement of the settlement. > >> > >> > >> > >> As for disbursements, assuming there are no > appeals, the claims > >> administer has 45 days from the final approval > date to disburse funds to > >> claimants. I do not know the final tally of > approved claimants, though I > >> think there were several hundred. I will pass > that information along > >> when I have it. > >> > >> > >> > >> We will now be working on enforcing the settlement > commitments that > >> Target made with respect to the accessibility of > the website. > >> > >> > >> Mehgan Sidhu > >> Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP > >> 120 East Baltimore Street, Suite 1700 > >> Baltimore, Maryland 21202 > >> 410-962-1030 x1324 > >> 410-385-0869 (fax) > >> ms at browngold.com > >> www.browngold.com > >> > >> Confidentiality Notice > >> > >> This e-mail may contain confidential information > that may also be legally > >> privileged and that is intended only for the use > of the addressee(s) > >> named above. If you are not the intended > recipient or an authorized > >> agent of the recipient, please be advised that any > dissemination or > >> copying of this e-mail, or taking of any action in > reliance on the > >> information contained herein, is strictly > prohibited. If you have > >> received this e-mail in error, please notify me > immediately by use of the > >> reply button, and then delete the e-mail from your > system. Thank you! > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> blindlaw mailing list > >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get > your account info for > >> blindlaw: > >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com > > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > > Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - > Release Date: 03/13/09 > > 05:59:00 > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > blindlaw mailing list > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for > > blindlaw: > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/slabarre%40labarrelaw.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release > Date: 03/13/09 > 05:59:00 > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/2001 - Release > Date: 03/14/09 > 06:54:00 > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/2001 - Release > Date: 03/14/09 > 06:54:00 > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dfrye%40nfb.org > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tim.ford%40cdph.ca.gov > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/william.odonnell1%40yahoo.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.15/2004 - Release Date: 03/16/09 07:04:00 From stevep.deeley at insightbb.com Mon Mar 16 16:41:43 2009 From: stevep.deeley at insightbb.com (Steve P. Deeley) Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 12:41:43 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target In-Reply-To: <753F548D527149CFBBF781FAEB8C2CE1@labarre> References: <7DF12D30A7294ADEAA75754CE0751C02@labarre> <753F548D527149CFBBF781FAEB8C2CE1@labarre> Message-ID: <35F783C1AEFB4675ACDC37277A2DD1FA@StevePC> Agreed. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott C. LaBarre" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 10:54 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target Oh, I wish I had a simple answer to that wuestion. It is always astonishing to me why companies/organizations would rather fight in court than fix whatever problem caused the issue. I have seen this occur hundreds of times in my legal career. With respect to blindness, some times it comes down to a fundamental and great misunderstanding of the capacities of the blind/disabled. Any way, I could go on and on but have not the time to do so currently. Step by step and by a variety of different techniques, we will keep advancing the ball! Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. LaBarre Law Offices P.C. 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 Denver, Colorado 80222 303 504-5979 (voice) 303 757-3640 (fax) slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) www.labarrelaw.com (website) CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Pepper" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 12:41 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target Scott: What I do not get is why these companies are willing to go to court and spend all this money and put themselves into so much risk, when the solutions to these problems are actually just a matter of rolling up the sleeves and rebuilding the website. For instance I just took a look at the Target website. Right now as I type this it has 940 errors in its HTML code and 109 warnings according to the World Wide Web Consortium which sets the international standards the codes used to write websites. This is appalling! Their CSS errors are 38 errors, and 335 warnings. This means that they are not even up to the international standards for writing code properly. There is no excuse for this! The LSAT is using the wrong program to make their PDF files. They are using a program that fragments the content into such tiny pieces that the text cannot be put back together again. It is all gibberish. But this can be fixed! What I do not get is why this is such a problem for people to make their websites accessible? Why are they willing to fight in court, spend millions of dollars in settlement when the solutions are right in front of them! I am just amazed at the waste! James Pepper On Sat, Mar 14, 2009 at 9:19 PM, Scott C. LaBarre wrote: > The standards used are those of WCAG and Sec. 508. I did not work > directly > on Target and cannot tell you exactly the access barriers. I can tell you > that with respect to filing applications to law schools through LSAC on > their website, it is impossible to fill those applications out > independently > using screen reading softaware. Let me also assure list members that we > don't simply jump on a website, encounter difficulty, and then sue them > the > next day. A lawsuit is the last resort when the entity is not willing to > deal with us otherwise. Just because we are a small minority does not > mean > that our right to the mainstream of society must always be subservient to > the majority's unwillingness to consider us due to our small numbers. > Unless someone has a new point to be made on this topic, I respectfully > suggest that we move onto different discussions. Let's also agree to > disagree on certain points. > Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. > > LaBarre Law Offices P.C. > 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 > Denver, Colorado 80222 > 303 504-5979 (voice) > 303 757-3640 (fax) > slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) > www.labarrelaw.com (website) > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and > privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may > not > read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this > message > in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or > slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. This > message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic > Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Orozco" > To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" > Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 8:52 AM > > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > > What troubles me is that my question of accessibility standards has not > been > answered on the other case against the LSAC. The same question is > applicable here. What standard was used to conclude that the web site was > not accessible? I do not claim to be a genius at manipulating technology > to > serve my needs, but I did not have to try hard at all to make Target give > me > what I needed between 2005 and 2008. So is the problem the web site > layout, > or is it our own technology training? Rather than chase every entity with > features a few people deem inaccessible, would it not be prudent to take > our > standards, whatever those may be, to the classroom, to the software > developers, the relevant associations raising the performance standards of > its students and members? This method of engineering change gives us the > perception of a watchdog group. If this is what we have become, and given > the small margin of the population we represent, I would rather trigger > change at the source rather than at the output. > > Joe Orozco > > "A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the > crowd."--Max Lucado > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley > Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 9:24 AM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > That should not result in you receiving damages of almost $4,000.00. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 4:35 AM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > > As an individual I am insulted and damaged each time I am > discriminated by a > business not accommodating my ability to access their products > and services, > especially on the Internet when I have made sure that I have > accommodated > myself with the most up-to-date software to mitigate my needs as a blind > person. I should not have to rely on sighted assistance to use > a product or > do without because the greedy corporations has chosen the most expedient > road to sell their products. I am also insulted that you are > posting this > question. I have in my life time been sold out by too many > blind people that > thought they knew what I needed and I hope more companies will > have to pay > damages in these types of cases. Perhaps they will then learn > how to meet > the needs of all their customers. Fortunately here in California we have > some laws with some teeth in them that are > enforceable--although these teeth > still need a good sharpening. > Chuck > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. Deeley" < > stevep.deeley at insightbb.com> > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 6:22 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > > That is a lawyer talking who makes his living in rediculous > situations like > this one. Again, you show me how an individual was damaged and out > $4,000.00. > Steve > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott C. LaBarre" < > slabarre at labarrelaw.com> > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 5:38 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > > Violation of civil rights has long been recognized as a form of > compensible > legal damage as well it should be. > Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. > > LaBarre Law Offices P.C. > 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 > Denver, Colorado 80222 > 303 504-5979 (voice) > 303 757-3640 (fax) > slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) > www.labarrelaw.com (website) > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential > and privileged > information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read, > copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in > error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or > slabarre at labarrelaw.com, > and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and > any attachments > are covered by the Electronic > Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. Deeley" < > stevep.deeley at insightbb.com> > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 2:31 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > > This is ridiculous! How were these people damaged? >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mehgan Sidhu" >> To: >> Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 3:20 PM >> Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target >> >> >> To answer the recent questions posted about the Target case, >>> >> the final > >> settlement hearing took place on March 9th. I understand from our >>> counsel in California, Larry Paradis of DRA and Josh >>> >> Konecky, that there > >> were no objectors and the Judge was pleased with the >>> >> resolution of the > >> case. The settlement is not fully "final" until the time for any >>> appeals has run - which is about 30 days. Given there were >>> >> no objectors, > >> it is highly unlikely that any appeals will be filed. The >>> >> judge has not > >> yet made a ruling on attorneys fees, but that will not hold up >>> enforcement of the settlement. >>> >>> >>> >>> As for disbursements, assuming there are no appeals, the claims >>> administer has 45 days from the final approval date to >>> >> disburse funds to > >> claimants. I do not know the final tally of approved >>> >> claimants, though I > >> think there were several hundred. I will pass that information along >>> when I have it. >>> >>> >>> >>> We will now be working on enforcing the settlement commitments that >>> Target made with respect to the accessibility of the website. >>> >>> >>> Mehgan Sidhu >>> Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP >>> 120 East Baltimore Street, Suite 1700 >>> Baltimore, Maryland 21202 >>> 410-962-1030 x1324 >>> 410-385-0869 (fax) >>> ms at browngold.com >>> www.browngold.com >>> >>> Confidentiality Notice >>> >>> This e-mail may contain confidential information that may >>> >> also be legally > >> privileged and that is intended only for the use of the addressee(s) >>> named above. If you are not the intended recipient or an authorized >>> agent of the recipient, please be advised that any dissemination or >>> copying of this e-mail, or taking of any action in reliance on the >>> information contained herein, is strictly prohibited. If you have >>> received this e-mail in error, please notify me immediately >>> >> by use of the > >> reply button, and then delete the e-mail from your system. >>> >> Thank you! > >> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep > .deeley%40insightbb.com > >> >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------------- > >> >> >> >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release >> > Date: 03/13/09 > >> 05:59:00 >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/slabar > re%40labarrelaw.com > >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep > .deeley%40insightbb.com > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------------- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release > Date: 03/13/09 > 05:59:00 > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugm > an%40sbcglobal.net > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep > .deeley%40insightbb.com > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------------- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release > Date: 03/13/09 > 05:59:00 > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jsoroz > co%40gmail.com > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of > virus signature database 3936 (20090313) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature > database 3936 (20090313) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/slabarre%40labarrelaw.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b75205%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/slabarre%40labarrelaw.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.15/2004 - Release Date: 03/16/09 07:04:00 From Tim.Ford at cdph.ca.gov Mon Mar 16 16:41:58 2009 From: Tim.Ford at cdph.ca.gov (Ford, Tim (CDPH-OLS)) Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 09:41:58 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] comments needed regarding policy for audible pedestrian signals In-Reply-To: <2A760F9B-BD1E-42B4-9E1F-C93641E869CE@sbcglobal.net> References: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6B26D668@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local><52EF5BE098F045CB9C686CB25AFFBB5B@spike> <2A760F9B-BD1E-42B4-9E1F-C93641E869CE@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <839F18076C66C345BD1C0A4ACA67A1F60315B466@dhsexcmsg12.intra.dhs.ca.gov> I have no comment on this string of notes, I just got tired of listening to the subject line with all the words run together, so I have taken a minute to correct the subject line. Tim Ford -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Mark BurningHawk Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 9:10 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] comments neededregarding policyforaudiblepedestriansignals I don't know if my comments below are germane, but here's what I have experienced: I have never encountered audible crosswalk signals until I came to California, about five years ago. For the previous thirty something years, I crossed streets without such. Because of my hearing loss, I am not averse to the added information such signals give, but I feel they may hinder more than they harm . If a blind person becomes dependent upon the beeps to know when to cross a street, instead of using real skills to cross the street, the potential for dependent behavior and dangerous outcomes is considerably high. Also, it has been my experience--sometimes almost scary experience--that the audible portion of the signal is not always accurate; a "north-south beep," might in fact signal permission to walk crossing an east-west street, if that makes any sense. The upshot is that the beep you think means walk will sometimes mean don't walk, and so any reassurance provided by the extra information is not all that reassuring. Also, with the advent of left turn only cycles, a crosswalk may in fact give false information. I'm not sure that these devices are at a stage where we should be pushing whole-heartedly for them, but I also see their use in a limited capacity. _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tim.ford%40cdp h.ca.gov From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Mon Mar 16 16:45:10 2009 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 09:45:10 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] LSAC Reader Settlement In-Reply-To: <7739ABEF6A0C423E9B86E30512012A5A@noneeb869fea9a> References: <7739ABEF6A0C423E9B86E30512012A5A@noneeb869fea9a> Message-ID: <6EE265B9FB2349B2A008FA27CBD57E7E@spike> I have beaten with the odds with the garbled audio with several attempts on the EBAY site but some of the voices that they used sounded like people with foreign dialects or speech impediments. I have also advised companies that this is not an acceptable option. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "John " To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 1:12 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAC Reader Settlement > Chuck, > And the garbled audio is exactly what defeats the purpose of the so called > alternative. Have many of you had any real success using the audio > alternatives. I know I certainly haven't and that is one of the big things > I > would like to see addressed is some way to get screen readers to read > those > captias. > John > > John A. Ramsey Jr., Esq. > > Gainesville, FL 32609 > > Phone: (352) 505-6642 > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net > Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 3:21 AM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAC Reader Settlement > > > many corporate sites that use a captcha or random code that you are > referring to can provide an audio alternative. This is done on many major > web sites such as Pay Pal EBay and MSN. this would address the problem as > you can hear the code that appears on the screen. The problem with some of > the audio alternatives is that the voices are intentionally garbled and > spoken in different pitches and dialects which causes confusion. This is > done to try to simulate the appearance of what is on the screen as it is > apparently somewhat garbled in appearance. > Chuck > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Steve P. Deeley" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 1:56 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAC Reader Settlement > > >> Rod, How would you suggest that I approach a bank who has a Web site >> that >> is not quite accessible. They want the user to type in a random code. >> Of > >> course, the Window-eyes will not read the code. I've talked with them >> twice and they can't seem to understand how to fix the problem. I'm >> planning to have a AT professional speak with them in the near future. I >> really don't want to seem adversarial when I speak with them again. >> >> Steve >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Rod Alcidonis" >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 10:02 AM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAC Reader Settlement >> >> >>>I only hope that for that reason, Angie, that any settlement with them >>>this >>> time has more teeth. Otherwise, we will be in the same place 5-10 years >>> down >>> the road. The LSAC has demonstrated times and again that they are not an >>> entity willing to abide by legal obligations. Not only in not publishing >>> their reader policy to test takers but in granting other >>> accommodations -- >>> where there is no standard to guide the process. I had accommodations >>> that >>> were granted to me because of blindness and denied to others also >>> because > >>> of >>> blindness. >>> >>> Rod Alcidonis >>> Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009. >>> Roger Williams University School of Law >>> 10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 >>> Bristol, RI 02809 >>> Cell: 718-704-4651 >>> Home: 401-824-8685 >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Angie Matney" >>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>> Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 6:41 AM >>> Subject: [blindlaw] LSAC Reader Settlement >>> >>> >>>> Did LSAC ever put anything up on their site concerning their reader >>>> policy? If memory serves, you had to request that this info be sent >>>> to you when I was applying. >>>> >>>> Angie >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail. > com >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in > sightbb.com >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> ---------- >> >> >> >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/2001 - Release Date: >> 03/14/09 >> 06:54:00 >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob > al.net > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joramsey%40cox.net > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net From joramsey at cox.net Mon Mar 16 19:53:24 2009 From: joramsey at cox.net (John ) Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 15:53:24 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] LSAC Reader Settlement In-Reply-To: <20090316114442.EQEO13984.eastrmmtai104.cox.net@eastrmimpi03.cox.net> Message-ID: Hi Angie, I haven't had any luck with phones either and I usually wear them on the computer regardless of what I am doing. I have not encountered the rolling mouse dilemma. Take care, John John A. Ramsey Jr., Esq. Gainesville, FL 32609 Phone: (352) 505-6642 -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Angie Matney Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 7:26 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAC Reader Settlement Hi John, Have you tried listening to those audio captchas with headphones? I usually listen to my computer with headphones anyway, but I think it makes a real difference in decoding those annoying audio captchas. The most inaccessible forms of verification I have encountered involve several pictures, and a statement like, "Roll your mouse over all the images that are images of cats." Angie On Mon, 16 Mar 2009 04:12:25 -0400, John wrote: >Chuck, >And the garbled audio is exactly what defeats the purpose of the so >called alternative. Have many of you had any real success using the >audio alternatives. I know I certainly haven't and that is one of the >big things I would like to see addressed is some way to get screen >readers to read those captias. John >John A. Ramsey Jr., Esq. >Gainesville, FL 32609 >Phone: (352) 505-6642 >-----Original Message----- >From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >On Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net >Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 3:21 AM >To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAC Reader Settlement >many corporate sites that use a captcha or random code that you are >referring to can provide an audio alternative. This is done on many major >web sites such as Pay Pal EBay and MSN. this would address the problem as >you can hear the code that appears on the screen. The problem with some of >the audio alternatives is that the voices are intentionally garbled and >spoken in different pitches and dialects which causes confusion. This is >done to try to simulate the appearance of what is on the screen as it is >apparently somewhat garbled in appearance. >Chuck >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Steve P. Deeley" >To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 1:56 PM >Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAC Reader Settlement >> Rod, How would you suggest that I approach a bank who has a Web site >> that >> is not quite accessible. They want the user to type in a random code. Of >> course, the Window-eyes will not read the code. I've talked with them >> twice and they can't seem to understand how to fix the problem. I'm >> planning to have a AT professional speak with them in the near future. I >> really don't want to seem adversarial when I speak with them again. >> >> Steve >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Rod Alcidonis" >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 10:02 AM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAC Reader Settlement >> >> >>>I only hope that for that reason, Angie, that any settlement with them >>>this >>> time has more teeth. Otherwise, we will be in the same place 5-10 years >>> down >>> the road. The LSAC has demonstrated times and again that they are not an >>> entity willing to abide by legal obligations. Not only in not publishing >>> their reader policy to test takers but in granting other >>> accommodations -- >>> where there is no standard to guide the process. I had accommodations >>> that >>> were granted to me because of blindness and denied to others also because >>> of >>> blindness. >>> >>> Rod Alcidonis >>> Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009. >>> Roger Williams University School of Law >>> 10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 >>> Bristol, RI 02809 >>> Cell: 718-704-4651 >>> Home: 401-824-8685 >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Angie Matney" >>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>> Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 6:41 AM >>> Subject: [blindlaw] LSAC Reader Settlement >>> >>> >>>> Did LSAC ever put anything up on their site concerning their reader >>>> policy? If memory serves, you had to request that this info be sent >>>> to you when I was applying. >>>> >>>> Angie >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail . >com >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40i n >sightbb.com >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> ---------- >> >> >> >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/2001 - Release Date: >> 03/14/09 >> 06:54:00 >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglo b >al.net >_______________________________________________ >blindlaw mailing list >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >blindlaw: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joramsey%40cox.ne t >_______________________________________________ >blindlaw mailing list >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie%40mpmail.ne t _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joramsey%40cox.net From timandvickie at hotmail.com Mon Mar 16 20:02:17 2009 From: timandvickie at hotmail.com (Tim Shaw) Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 20:02:17 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] LSAC Reader Settlement In-Reply-To: <6EE265B9FB2349B2A008FA27CBD57E7E@spike> References: <7739ABEF6A0C423E9B86E30512012A5A@noneeb869fea9a> <6EE265B9FB2349B2A008FA27CBD57E7E@spike> Message-ID: ive never ahd problems with the audio, but ive never encoutnered ones taht sounded like they were read by people with foriegn dialects. If they sound that way, its probably cuz they were recorded by someone sitting in India making a dollar an hour > From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net > To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org > Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 09:45:10 -0700 > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAC Reader Settlement > > I have beaten with the odds with the garbled audio with several attempts on > the EBAY site but some of the voices that they used sounded like people with > foreign dialects or speech impediments. I have also advised companies that > this is not an acceptable option. > Chuck > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John " > To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" > Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 1:12 AM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAC Reader Settlement > > > > Chuck, > > And the garbled audio is exactly what defeats the purpose of the so called > > alternative. Have many of you had any real success using the audio > > alternatives. I know I certainly haven't and that is one of the big things > > I > > would like to see addressed is some way to get screen readers to read > > those > > captias. > > John > > > > John A. Ramsey Jr., Esq. > > > > Gainesville, FL 32609 > > > > Phone: (352) 505-6642 > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > > Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net > > Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 3:21 AM > > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAC Reader Settlement > > > > > > many corporate sites that use a captcha or random code that you are > > referring to can provide an audio alternative. This is done on many major > > web sites such as Pay Pal EBay and MSN. this would address the problem as > > you can hear the code that appears on the screen. The problem with some of > > the audio alternatives is that the voices are intentionally garbled and > > spoken in different pitches and dialects which causes confusion. This is > > done to try to simulate the appearance of what is on the screen as it is > > apparently somewhat garbled in appearance. > > Chuck > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Steve P. Deeley" > > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > > Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 1:56 PM > > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAC Reader Settlement > > > > > >> Rod, How would you suggest that I approach a bank who has a Web site > >> that > >> is not quite accessible. They want the user to type in a random code. > >> Of > > > >> course, the Window-eyes will not read the code. I've talked with them > >> twice and they can't seem to understand how to fix the problem. I'm > >> planning to have a AT professional speak with them in the near future. I > >> really don't want to seem adversarial when I speak with them again. > >> > >> Steve > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "Rod Alcidonis" > >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > >> Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 10:02 AM > >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAC Reader Settlement > >> > >> > >>>I only hope that for that reason, Angie, that any settlement with them > >>>this > >>> time has more teeth. Otherwise, we will be in the same place 5-10 years > >>> down > >>> the road. The LSAC has demonstrated times and again that they are not an > >>> entity willing to abide by legal obligations. Not only in not publishing > >>> their reader policy to test takers but in granting other > >>> accommodations -- > >>> where there is no standard to guide the process. I had accommodations > >>> that > >>> were granted to me because of blindness and denied to others also > >>> because > > > >>> of > >>> blindness. > >>> > >>> Rod Alcidonis > >>> Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009. > >>> Roger Williams University School of Law > >>> 10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 > >>> Bristol, RI 02809 > >>> Cell: 718-704-4651 > >>> Home: 401-824-8685 > >>> > >>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>> From: "Angie Matney" > >>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > >>> Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 6:41 AM > >>> Subject: [blindlaw] LSAC Reader Settlement > >>> > >>> > >>>> Did LSAC ever put anything up on their site concerning their reader > >>>> policy? If memory serves, you had to request that this info be sent > >>>> to you when I was applying. > >>>> > >>>> Angie > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> blindlaw mailing list > >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > >>>> for > >>>> blindlaw: > >>>> > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail. > > com > >>>> > >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> blindlaw mailing list > >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>> blindlaw: > >>> > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in > > sightbb.com > >> > >> > >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> ---------- > >> > >> > >> > >> No virus found in this incoming message. > >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > >> Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/2001 - Release Date: > >> 03/14/09 > >> 06:54:00 > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> blindlaw mailing list > >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> blindlaw: > >> > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob > > al.net > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > blindlaw mailing list > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joramsey%40cox.net > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > blindlaw mailing list > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/timandvickie%40hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ Express your personality in color! Preview and select themes for Hotmail®. http://www.windowslive-hotmail.com/LearnMore/personalize.aspx?ocid=TXT_MSGTX_WL_HM_express_032009#colortheme From ms at browngold.com Wed Mar 18 16:53:19 2009 From: ms at browngold.com (Mehgan Sidhu) Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 12:53:19 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] BGL Disability Rights Fellowship Message-ID: Dear All, I'm pleased to make the following announcement on behalf of Brown, Goldstein & Levy. I hope that many of you will apply. Please let me know if you have any questions. Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP, is proud to introduce a one-year disability rights fellowship. The Fellowship offers a recent law-school graduate or judicial clerk (0 to 3 years out) with a disability the opportunity to participate in all phases of disability rights litigation at our firm in Baltimore, Maryland. Brown, Goldstein & Levy is a 16-lawyer, Baltimore-based law firm devoted principally to litigation. The firm has developed a national reputation for its high-profile, high-impact disability rights cases. The one-year fellowship will begin in September 2009. The application deadline is April 15, 2009. Please visit our website for additional details about the fellowship and the firm and to download an application: www.browngold.com. Mehgan Sidhu Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP 120 East Baltimore Street, Suite 1700 Baltimore, Maryland 21202 410-962-1030 x1324 410-385-0869 (fax) ms at browngold.com www.browngold.com Confidentiality Notice This e-mail may contain confidential information that may also be legally privileged and that is intended only for the use of the addressee(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient or an authorized agent of the recipient, please be advised that any dissemination or copying of this e-mail, or taking of any action in reliance on the information contained herein, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify me immediately by use of the reply button, and then delete the e-mail from your system. Thank you! From JMcCarthy at nfb.org Wed Mar 18 20:11:05 2009 From: JMcCarthy at nfb.org (McCarthy, Jim) Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 16:11:05 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Law Symposium Message-ID: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6B26D6A8@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local> Lou Ann Blake, the coordinator of the upcoming Jacobus TenBroek Disability Law Symposium, asked me to post the following message. I would further editorialize that you should make all efforts to attend this event. As you will see, the agenda contains some of the foremost experts in disability law and policy. Kareem Dale, President Obama's Special Assistant for Disability Policy to Speak at the 2009 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium Don't miss this opportunity to voice your concerns to Kareem Dale, Special Assistant to the President for Disability Policy, at the 2009 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium on April 17th at the National Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute in Baltimore, Maryland. Mr. Dale will speak on the Obama administration's policies on disability issues for approximately thirty minutes followed by a forty-five minute question and answer session. In addition to Mr. Dale, the presenters for the 2009 symposium are: * Maura Healey, Assistant Attorney General and Chief, Office of Civil Rights, Commonwealth of Massachusetts; * Amy Robertson and Timothy Fox, Principals, Fox & Robertson, P.C.; * Gerard Quinn, Professor of Law, National University of Ireland, Galway; * Katherine Guernsey, International Lawyer and Adjunct Professor, American University School of International Service; * Samuel Bagenstos, Visiting Professor of Law, University of Michigan Law School; * Christine Griffin, Commissioner, United States Equal Employment Opportunity Commission; and * Peter Blanck, University Professor and Chairman, Burton Blatt Institute at Syracuse University. Ari Ne'eman, founding president of the Autistic Self-Advocacy Network, will give the luncheon keynote address. To view the full agenda, register online, or download the registration form to register by mail or fax, visit the symposium web page at http://www.nfb.org/nfb/Law_Symposium.asp. Hotel information may also be found on the symposium Web page. The registration fee is $150; students may register for $20. A limited number of scholarships to cover the registration fee will be available to individuals with demonstrated financial need. Don't miss this exciting opportunity to interact with leading scholars, government officials, and advocates and to make your voice heard. The deadline to register is April 10, 2009. Symposium attendees will be provided documentation for CLE credit. Individuals will be responsible for filing the application for CLE credit with their state board. The 2009 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium is sponsored by the National Federation of the Blind, the American Bar Association Commission on Mental and Physical Disability Law, the Maryland Department of Disability, the Texas Journal on Civil Liberties and Civil Rights, and the Legal Times. For additional information about the symposium, contact: Lou Ann Blake, Law Symposium Coordinator National Federation of the Blind Telephone: (410) 659-9314, ext. 2221 E-mail: lblake at nfb.org From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov Wed Mar 18 22:03:59 2009 From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel) Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 17:03:59 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] FW: Attorney Vacancies at the U.S. Department of Justice Message-ID: ________________________________ From: jobs-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:jobs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Maurer, Patricia Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 4:49 AM To: jobs at nfbnet.org Subject: [Jobs] FW: Attorney Vacancies at the U.S. Department of Justice ________________________________ From: Hunter, Sue [mailto:Sue.Hunter at usdoj.gov] Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 12:18 PM To: nedy at wyjlaw.com; newmedia at ja.org; Neysas at dnfsb.gov; Maurer, Patricia; nijc at aol.com; nlove at opd.state.md.us; nmcconnell at jackscamp.com; noconnell at tabinc.org; noryrp at cox.net; nromulus at gmail.com; ntb at boglechang.com; ocaaba at cox.net; omanager at lawyerscomm.org; palsd at hotmail.com; patel at fr.com; pchanster at yahoo.com; pchapman at koonz.com; pgrewal at daycasebeer.com; pkim at lordbissell.com; Maurer, Patricia; pmorrison at state.wv.us; poppy.johnston at unlv.edu; president at abaw.org; president at adc.org; president at apabala.org Subject: FW: Attorney Vacancies at the U.S. Department of Justice To learn more about our attorneys and what they like most about working at DOJ, please visit our attorney profiles at, http://www.usdoj.gov/oarm/arm/profiles.htm, and the video clips of our attorneys and interns available at https://www.avuedigitalservices.com/ads/jobsatdojoarm/index.jsp We encourage you to share this email with interested colleagues and peers. If you no longer wish to receive these periodic email announcements, please respond to this email address and ask to be removed from our mailing list. Thank you. Current Department of Justice Attorney Vacancies * EXPERIENCED ATTORNEYS, GS-13 to GS-15 UNITED STATES DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE NATIONAL SECURITY DIVISION OFFICE OF LAW AND POLICY Announcement remains opened until positions are filled. Date posted: 03-13-2009 * DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE U.S. TRUSTEE'S OFFICE -- LAS VEGAS, NEVADA TRIAL ATTORNEY Applications must be postmarked by the closing date of and will be accepted up to five calendar days after the closing date (April 6, 2009). Date posted: 03-13-2009 * ASSISTANT UNITED STATES ATTORNEY UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE DISTRICT OF KANSAS VACANCY ANNOUNCEMENT NUMBER: 09-KS-AUSA-02 Application must be received by March 20, 2009. Date posted: 03-13-2009 * U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE CRIMINAL DIVISION NARCOTIC AND DANGEROUS DRUG SECTION TRIAL ATTORNEY / GS-13 to GS-15 VACANCY ANNOUNCEMENT NUMBER: 09-CRM-NDDS-006 This position is open until April 2, 2009. Date posted: 03-12-2009 * BOARD MEMBER BOARD OF IMMIGRATION APPEALS EXECUTIVE OFFICE FOR IMMIGRATION REVIEW VACANCY ANNOUNCEMENT NUMBER: EOIR-09-0031 Applications received after April 10, 2009 will not be considered. Date posted: 03-12-2009 * GENERAL COUNSEL EXECUTIVE OFFICE FOR IMMIGRATION REVIEW VACANCY ANNOUNCEMENT NUMBER: EOIR-09-0030 Applications received after April 9, 2009 will not be considered. Date posted: 03-12-2009 * SPECIAL ASSISTANT (GS-0905-13/14/15) U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE ANTITRUST DIVISION OFFICE OF OPERATIONS Applications must be received no later than March 18, 2009. Date posted: 03-12-2009 * EXPERIENCED ATTORNEYS / GS-12 to GS-15 CIVIL DIVISION, COMMERCIAL LITIGATION BRANCH FRAUD SECTION Applications should be submitted as early as possible but, in any event, not later than April 1, 2009. Date posted: 03-11-2009 * U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE CIVIL RIGHTS DIVISION OFFICE OF SPECIAL COUNSEL FOR IMMIGRATION RELATED UNFAIR EMPLOYMENT PRACTICES TRIAL ATTORNEY, GS-905-14/15 This position is open until March 31, 2009. Date posted: 03-11-2009 * U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE CRIMINAL DIVISION RESIDENT LEGAL ADVISOR IN KYRGYZSTAN Applications will be accepted until the position is filled. Date posted: 03-10-2009 * COUNSEL TO THE ASSISTANT ATTORNEY GENERAL (GS-0905-15) U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE ANTITRUST DIVISION OFFICE OF ASSISTANT ATTORNEY GENERAL Applications must be received no later than March 13, 2009. Date posted: 03-09-2009 * ATTORNEY-ADVISOR/GS-14 U.S. PAROLE COMMISSION CHEVY CHASE, MARYLAND Closing date March 30, 2009. Date posted: 03-09-2009 * ASSISTANT UNITED STATES ATTORNEY UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE DISTRICT OF ARIZONA 09-AZ-03 Send application by March 23, 2009. Date posted: 03-06-2009 * U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE CIVIL RIGHTS DIVISION/EDUCATIONAL OPPORTUNITIES SECTION TRIAL ATTORNEYS/GS-12 to GS-15 This position is open until March 27, 2009. Date posted: 03-06-2009 * U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE DRUG ENFORCEMENT ADMINISTRATION OFFICE OF CHIEF COUNSEL DIVISION COUNSEL - SEATTLE DIVISION SEATTLE, WASHINGTON ATTORNEY/GS 15 Applications must be received by April 6, 2009. Date posted: 03-06-2009 * U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE DRUG ENFORCEMENT ADMINISTRATION OFFICE OF CHIEF COUNSEL DIVISION COUNSEL - MIAMI DIVISION MIAMI, FLORIDA ATTORNEY/GS 15 Applications must be received by April 6, 2009. Date posted: 03-06-2009 * U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE DRUG ENFORCEMENT ADMINISTRATION OFFICE OF CHIEF COUNSEL DIVISION COUNSEL - SAN DIEGO DIVISION SAN DIEGO, CALIFORNIA ATTORNEY/GS 15 Applications must be received by April 13, 2009. Date posted: 03-06-2009 * U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE U.S. TRUSTEE'S OFFICE -- BOSTON, MASSACHUSETTS EXPERIENCED ATTORNEY/GS-13 to GS-15 This position will be open until March 23, 2009. Date posted: 03-06-2009 * U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE EXECUTIVE OFFICE FOR UNITED STATES ATTORNEYS OFFICE OF THE CHIEF INFORMATION OFFICER ATTORNEY-ADVISOR/LITIGATOR, GS-0905-15 VACANCY ANNOUNCEMENT NO: 09-EOUSA-35 Application materials must be received by 11:59pm (Eastern Standard Time) on the closing date. Date posted: 03-04-2009 * ASSISTANT UNITED STATES ATTORNEY UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE District of Alaska 09-AK-005 Resumes will be reviewed and acted upon on a rolling basis until the position is filled. Date posted: 03-04-2009 The purpose of this email is to advise potential interested persons of employment opportunities at the Department of Justice. The Department of Justice cannot control further dissemination and/or posting of this information. Such posting and/or dissemination is not an endorsement by the Department of the organization or group disseminating and/or posting the information. -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Jobs mailing list Jobs at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/jobs_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Jobs: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/jobs_nfbnet.org/noel.nightingale%40ed.gov From mildredrivera at yahoo.com Thu Mar 19 14:51:58 2009 From: mildredrivera at yahoo.com (Mildred Rivera-Rau) Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 07:51:58 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [blindlaw] JOBS @ EEOC -- hurry over 70 positions Message-ID: <650798.78749.qm@web33006.mail.mud.yahoo.com>   I wanted to let everyone know that EEOC is going though a hiring phase. We are looking for over 70 investigators and other positions nation-wide. Please forward this information to relevant disability list serves if you have contacts. We would like to hire people with targeted disabilities. If the posting says "status candidates" that includes people with Sch A hiring but not the general public.  Please see this link:   http://jobsearch.usajobs.opm.gov/jobsearch.asp?q=&jbf574=EE00&lid=&jbf522=&salmin=&salmax=&paygrademin=&paygrademax=&FedEmp=Y&tm=&sort=rv&vw=d&ss=0&brd=3876&FedPub=Y&caller=%2Fagency_search.asp&SUBMIT1.x=95&SUBMIT1.y=10   Good luck!!         From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov Fri Mar 20 21:57:15 2009 From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel) Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 16:57:15 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] IRS tax lawyer vacancies Message-ID: IRS tax-related positions: We invite you to visit the F&M Personnel web page where all of the Office of Chief Counsel's vacancy announcements are posted. IF YOU HAVE QUESTIONS, PLEASE CONTACT THE HR SPECIALIST LISTED ON THE ANNOUNCEMENT. NEW POSTINGS The following positions are new postings for this week. We hope you have an opportunity to view these postings, as well as, other postings that are currently open. You may go directly to these listings or view or open announcements by clicking on the following link: http://intranet/etools/vacancy. (you may want to save this link for future reference). We also will be sending this email as a weekly reminder of new postings. Please note most new announcements posted by the Staffing, Classification and Benefits Branch (GS-14 and below) use an automated process for making application. This enhancement will permit you to directly apply on-line simply by clicking the announcement number. On screen instructions will lead you through the application process. Applicants are encouraged to use this new system because it will make it easier to apply for vacant positions. However, if you are unable to use the system or have questions, you may contact the HR Specialist named on the vacancy announcement. Please note that we were notified today by Career Connector Management and Monster.com that the system will be down until Monday noon. You will be able to apply for the vacancy announcements after 12 p.m on Monday. GS-ERB-09-17 Supervisory Trial Attorney (Tax), Associate Area Counsel, GS-905-15 Office of Division Counsel (Small Business/Self Employed) Oklahoma City, OK Area of Consideration: Office of Chief Counsel Employees only Contact Name: Jacqueline T. Lawson Opens: 03/18/2009 Closes: 04/08/2009 NBU GS-ERB-09-18 Supervisory Trial Attorney (Tax), Associate Area Counsel, GS-905-15 Office of Division Counsel (Small Business/Self Employed) San Francisco, CA Area of Consideration: Office of Chief Counsel Employees only. Contact Name: Jacqueline T. Lawson Opens: 03/18/2009 Closes: 04/08/2009 NBU GS-ERB-09-20 Supervisory Trial Attorney (Tax), Associate Area Counsel, GS-905-15 Office of Division Counsel (Small Business/Self Employed) Manhattan, NY Area of Consideration: Office of Chief Counsel Employees only. Contact Name: Jacqueline T. Lawson Opens: 03/18/2009 Closes: 04/08/2009 NBU CCKM-09-52 General Attorney (Tax), GS-905-13/14 Division Counsel/Associate Chief Counsel (Tax Exempt & Government Entities), Exempt Organizations Washington, DC Area of Consideration: All Sources Contact Name: Krista Moffat Opens: 03/19/2009 Closes: 04/06/2009 BU CCKM-09-48 General Attorney (Tax), GS-905-12/13/14 Division Counsel/Associate Chief Counsel (Tax Exempt & Government Entities) Chicago, IL; Denver, CO; Long Island, NY Area of Consideration: All Sources Contact Name: Krista Moffat Opens: 03/19/2009 Closes: 04/06/2009 BU CCLO-09-43 General Attorney (Tax), GS-905-12/13/14 Associate Chief Counsel (Small Business/Self Employed) Various (please refer to the vacancy announcement) Area of Consideration: All Sources Contact Name: Laura O'Nan Opens: 03/19/2009 Closes: 04/01/2009 BU CCLO-09-44 General Attorney (Tax), GS-905-12/13/14 Associate Chief Counsel (Small Business/Self Employed) Various (please refer to the vacany announcement) Area of Consideration: All Sources Contact Name: Laura O'Nan Opens: 03/19/2009 Closes: 04/01/2009 BU CCLO-09-45 General Attorney (Tax), GS-905-12/13/14 Associate Chief Counsel (Small Business/Self Employed) Various (Please refer to the vacancy announcement) Area of Consideration: All Sources Contact Name: Laura O'Nan Opens: 03/19/2009 Closes: 04/01/2009 BU CCDP-09-46 General Attorney (Tax), GS-905-12/13/14 Associate Chief Counsel (Small Business/Self Employed) Various (Please refer to the vacancy announcement) Area of Consideration: All Sources Contact Name: Deanna Porter Opens: 03/19/2009 Closes: 04/01/2009 BU CCTW-09-31 General Attorney, GS-905-12/13/14 Office of the Division Counsel (LMSB) Boston, MA - Manhattan, NY - Long Island, NY - Hartford, CT Area of Consideration: All Sources Contact Name: Theresa Woodard Opens: 03/19/2009 Closes: 04/02/2009 BU CCTW-09-35 General Attorney (Tax), GS-905-12/13/14 Office of Division Counsel (LMSB) Various (please refer to the vacany announcement) Area of Consideration: All sources Contact Name: Theresa Woodard Opens: 03/19/2009 Closes: 04/02/2009 BU CCKM-09-49 General Attorney (Tax), GS-905-12/13/14 Division Counsel/Associate Chief Counsel (Tax Exempt & Government Entities) Dallas, TX Area of Consideration: All Sources Contact Name: Krista Moffat Opens: 03/19/2009 Closes: 04/06/2009 BU CCKM-09-53 General Attorney (Tax), GS-905-12/13/14 Division Counsel/Associate Chief Counsel (Tax Exempt & Government Entities), Health & Welfare Branch Washington, DC Area of Consideration: All Sources Contact Name: Krista Moffat Opens: 03/19/2009 Closes: 04/06/2009 BU CCKM-09-54 General Attorney (Tax), GS-905-12/13/14 Division Counsel/Associate Chief Counsel (Tax Exempt & Government Entities), Qualified Plans Branch 1 or 2 Washington, DC Area of Consideration: All Sources Contact Name: Krista Moffat Opens: 03/19/2009 Closes: 04/06/2009 BU CCNH-09-28 (AMENDED) P&A, General Attorney (Tax), GS-905-12/13/14 Associate Chief Counsel (Procedure and Administration) Washington, DC Area of Consideration: All Sources Contact Name: Nancy Hom Opens: 03/19/2009 Closes: 04/02/2009 BU CCTW-09-38 General Attorney (Tax), GS-905-12/13/14 Associate Chief Counsel (P&SI) Washington, DC Area of Consideration: All sources Contact Name: Theresa Woodard Opens: 03/19/2009 Closes: 04/02/2009 BU CCTW-09-32 GEneral Attorney (Tax), GS-905-12/13/14 Office of the Division Counsel (LMSB) various (please refer to the vacany announcement) Area of Consideration: All sources Contact Name: Theresa Woodard Opens: 03/19/2009 Closes: 04/02/2009 BU CCTW-09-33 General Attorney (Tax), GS-905-12/13/14 Office of the Division Counsel (LMSB) Various (please refer to the vacany announcement) Area of Consideration: All sources Contact Name: Theresa Woodard Opens: 03/19/2009 Closes: 04/02/2009 BU CCTW-09-34 General Attorney (Tax), GS-905-12/13/14 Office of Division Counsel (LMSB) Various (please refer to the vacany announcement) Area of Consideration: All Sources Contact Name: Theresa Woodard Opens: 03/19/2009 Closes: 04/02/2009 BU CCDP-09-47 General Attorney (Tax), GS-905-12/13/14 Associate Chief Counsel (Small Business/Self Employed) Various (Please refer to the vacancy announcement) Area of Consideration: All Sources Contact Name: Deanna Porter Opens: 03/19/2009 Closes: 04/01/2009 BU 9W2-083-NC Secretary (OA), GS-318-07 Associate Chief Counsel (Finance and Management) Chicago, IL Area of Consideration: Status Chief Counsel and IRS Employees Contact Name: Derika Ferdinand Opens: 03/16/2009 Closes: 03/30/2009 NBU ES-ERB-09-16 Deputy Associate Chief Counsel (Strategic International Programs) Office of Associate Chief Counsel (International), ES-905 Washington, DC Area of Consideration: All Qualified Persons Contact Name: Jacqueline T. Lawson Opens: 03/06/2009 Closes: 04/06/2009 NBU FIRST CONSIDERATION OPPORTUNITIES The following bargaining unit support field positions have been posted by the Brookhaven IRS personnel staff. Under the Counsel-NTEU collective bargaining agreement, all Counsel applicants are entitled to first consideration for such positions. In order to receive first consideration, please email your application to the listed contact by the specified date. If you do not send your application by this means, you will not receive first consideration under the union contract. To see the associated vacancy for these listings please view the Career Opportunities List (COL) at: http://col.web.irs.gov/ . CCKM-09-M51 Paralegal Specialist, GS-950-07 Division Counsel (Large and Mid-Sized Business) Cincinnati, OH and Philadelphia, PA Area of Consideration: Status applicants in the Office of Chief Counsel Contact Name: Krista Moffat Opens: 03/19/2009 Closes: 04/02/2009 BU CCKM-09-D37 Paralegal Specialist, GS-950-07 Division Counsel (Small Business and Self-Employed) Chicago, IL Area of Consideration: Status applicants in the Office of Chief Counsel Contact Name: Krista Moffat Opens: 03/13/2009 Closes: 03/27/2009 BU From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Sat Mar 21 07:04:18 2009 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 00:04:18 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] California need info re statutes involving admission of service animal to business Message-ID: I have a chapter member that experienced discrimination by a store because he brought his guide dog in to the business. I know that this probably falls under the Unruh Civil Rights Act in California and the ADA but I'm also interested in any specific statutes or experiences with this type of discrimination in California as well as possibly referring him to an attorney. Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal 1237 P Street Fresno ca 93721 559-266-9237 From AZNOR99 at aol.com Sat Mar 21 22:18:20 2009 From: AZNOR99 at aol.com (AZNOR99 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 18:18:20 EDT Subject: [blindlaw] Bus from Detroit Airport to Marriott Message-ID: Hi Everyone, Today, I booked my hotel room for convention. I was a bit worried about the $40 cab fare each way from the hotel to the airport, so I asked about cheaper transportation and learned the following: There is a bus that picks up from Baggage Claim at both airport terminals every half hour on week days and every hour on weekends. The fare is $1.50. It drops off two blocks from the Marriott. It also does the return trip to the airport for the same fare. It is the Fort Street bus #125. I was really excited about this because it means I can save $77 in transportation costs and wanted to share the information with all of you. Hope this helps. Ronza **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1220863691x1201421954/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fwww.freecreditreport.com%2Fpm%2Fdefault.aspx%3Fsc%3D668072%26hmpgID %3D62%26bcd%3DMarchfooterNO62) From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Sun Mar 22 01:09:59 2009 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 18:09:59 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Bus from Detroit Airport to Marriott In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <27B0B1C15FB04C3EB59D51F4E01089D7@spike> If it hasn't changed from when I lived in Detroit there is also limousine service from the air port that goes to the various hotels. This may also be something that needs to be researched. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; ; ; ; ; ; ; Sent: Saturday, March 21, 2009 3:18 PM Subject: [blindlaw] Bus from Detroit Airport to Marriott > Hi Everyone, > > Today, I booked my hotel room for convention. I was a bit worried about > the > $40 cab fare each way from the hotel to the airport, so I asked about > cheaper transportation and learned the following: > > There is a bus that picks up from Baggage Claim at both airport terminals > every half hour on week days and every hour on weekends. The fare is > $1.50. It > drops off two blocks from the Marriott. It also does the return trip to > the > airport for the same fare. It is the Fort Street bus #125. > > I was really excited about this because it means I can save $77 in > transportation costs and wanted to share the information with all of you. > Hope this > helps. > > Ronza > > **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 > easy > steps! > (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1220863691x1201421954/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fwww.freecreditreport.com%2Fpm%2Fdefault.aspx%3Fsc%3D668072%26hmpgID > %3D62%26bcd%3DMarchfooterNO62) > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net From b75205 at gmail.com Sun Mar 22 04:18:06 2009 From: b75205 at gmail.com (James Pepper) Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 23:18:06 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Bus from Detroit Airport to Marriott In-Reply-To: <27B0B1C15FB04C3EB59D51F4E01089D7@spike> References: <27B0B1C15FB04C3EB59D51F4E01089D7@spike> Message-ID: If you go through the detroit airport and you are photosensitive watch out for the underground walkway because it has flashing lights strobe lights which is considered art. It is a disaster for those sensitive to this type of problem. The lights span about 1000 feet and it takes about 5 minutes for you to pass through this area. James On Sat, Mar 21, 2009 at 8:09 PM, wrote: > If it hasn't changed from when I lived in Detroit there is also limousine > service from the air port that goes to the various hotels. This may also be > something that needs to be researched. > Chuck > ----- Original Message ----- From: > To: ; ; < > greater-baltimore at nfbnet.org>; ; ; > ; ; > Sent: Saturday, March 21, 2009 3:18 PM > Subject: [blindlaw] Bus from Detroit Airport to Marriott > > > Hi Everyone, >> >> Today, I booked my hotel room for convention. I was a bit worried about >> the >> $40 cab fare each way from the hotel to the airport, so I asked about >> cheaper transportation and learned the following: >> >> There is a bus that picks up from Baggage Claim at both airport terminals >> every half hour on week days and every hour on weekends. The fare is >> $1.50. It >> drops off two blocks from the Marriott. It also does the return trip to >> the >> airport for the same fare. It is the Fort Street bus #125. >> >> I was really excited about this because it means I can save $77 in >> transportation costs and wanted to share the information with all of you. >> Hope this >> helps. >> >> Ronza >> >> **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 >> easy >> steps! >> ( >> http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1220863691x1201421954/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fwww.freecreditreport.com%2Fpm%2Fdefault.aspx%3Fsc%3D668072%26hmpgID >> %3D62%26bcd%3DMarchfooterNO62) >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b75205%40gmail.com > From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Sun Mar 22 09:00:16 2009 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Sun, 22 Mar 2009 02:00:16 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Bus from Detroit Airport to Marriott In-Reply-To: References: <27B0B1C15FB04C3EB59D51F4E01089D7@spike> Message-ID: <8209C298C0EA43F2AD723ED1FD709677@spike> just think of the potential litigation if the lights triggered seizure activity. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Pepper" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Saturday, March 21, 2009 9:18 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Bus from Detroit Airport to Marriott > If you go through the detroit airport and you are photosensitive watch out > for the underground walkway because it has flashing lights strobe lights > which is considered art. It is a disaster for those sensitive to this > type > of problem. The lights span about 1000 feet and it takes about 5 minutes > for you to pass through this area. > > James > > On Sat, Mar 21, 2009 at 8:09 PM, wrote: > >> If it hasn't changed from when I lived in Detroit there is also limousine >> service from the air port that goes to the various hotels. This may also >> be >> something that needs to be researched. >> Chuck >> ----- Original Message ----- From: >> To: ; ; < >> greater-baltimore at nfbnet.org>; ; ; >> ; ; >> >> Sent: Saturday, March 21, 2009 3:18 PM >> Subject: [blindlaw] Bus from Detroit Airport to Marriott >> >> >> Hi Everyone, >>> >>> Today, I booked my hotel room for convention. I was a bit worried >>> about >>> the >>> $40 cab fare each way from the hotel to the airport, so I asked about >>> cheaper transportation and learned the following: >>> >>> There is a bus that picks up from Baggage Claim at both airport >>> terminals >>> every half hour on week days and every hour on weekends. The fare is >>> $1.50. It >>> drops off two blocks from the Marriott. It also does the return trip >>> to >>> the >>> airport for the same fare. It is the Fort Street bus #125. >>> >>> I was really excited about this because it means I can save $77 in >>> transportation costs and wanted to share the information with all of >>> you. >>> Hope this >>> helps. >>> >>> Ronza >>> >>> **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 >>> easy >>> steps! >>> ( >>> http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1220863691x1201421954/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fwww.freecreditreport.com%2Fpm%2Fdefault.aspx%3Fsc%3D668072%26hmpgID >>> %3D62%26bcd%3DMarchfooterNO62) >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net >>> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b75205%40gmail.com >> > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net From qmsingleton at comcast.net Sun Mar 22 21:34:15 2009 From: qmsingleton at comcast.net (Quintina M. Singleton) Date: Sun, 22 Mar 2009 16:34:15 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Jim McCarthy on Thruoureyes Message-ID: The next "Thruoureyes with Joe Ruffalo" live internet radio show is scheduled for Wednesday March 25, 2009 at 8:00 PM EST. Guest host, Jerry Moreno, will be interviewing director of governmental affairs for the National Federation of the Blind, James McCarthy. A brief summary of this year's Washington Seminar, what listeners could be doing to assist in legislative initiatives presently, and advisement concerning how to stay informed with legislative issues year round are topics that will be discussed on the evening's show. I invite you to visit www.thruoureyes.org or to hear the program live via telephone dial 201 793 9022 with the access code: 2400484. To phone in live during the show use: 1 888 572 0141 From b75205 at gmail.com Mon Mar 23 01:34:48 2009 From: b75205 at gmail.com (James Pepper) Date: Sun, 22 Mar 2009 20:34:48 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Bus from Detroit Airport to Marriott In-Reply-To: <8209C298C0EA43F2AD723ED1FD709677@spike> References: <27B0B1C15FB04C3EB59D51F4E01089D7@spike> <8209C298C0EA43F2AD723ED1FD709677@spike> Message-ID: Well that the thing, I saw a man going through the airport in a wheel chair and he was covering his eyes. He was telling me it was all because of this problem. He said it was the guantlet, that's what he called it. It was a strange thing to see this guy holding his eyes while the skycap was pushing the wheel chair. Apparently it causes nausea just with that much exposure. Since the NFB convention is in Detroit, you all might want to investigate this problem. It is an underground walkway under the airplanes between two terminals. James On Sun, Mar 22, 2009 at 4:00 AM, wrote: > just think of the potential litigation if the lights triggered seizure > activity. > Chuck > ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Pepper" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Saturday, March 21, 2009 9:18 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Bus from Detroit Airport to Marriott > > > > If you go through the detroit airport and you are photosensitive watch out >> for the underground walkway because it has flashing lights strobe lights >> which is considered art. It is a disaster for those sensitive to this >> type >> of problem. The lights span about 1000 feet and it takes about 5 minutes >> for you to pass through this area. >> >> James >> >> On Sat, Mar 21, 2009 at 8:09 PM, wrote: >> >> If it hasn't changed from when I lived in Detroit there is also limousine >>> service from the air port that goes to the various hotels. This may also >>> be >>> something that needs to be researched. >>> Chuck >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: >>> To: ; ; < >>> greater-baltimore at nfbnet.org>; ; >> >; >>> ; ; < >>> njabs-talk at nfbnet.org> >>> Sent: Saturday, March 21, 2009 3:18 PM >>> Subject: [blindlaw] Bus from Detroit Airport to Marriott >>> >>> >>> Hi Everyone, >>> >>>> >>>> Today, I booked my hotel room for convention. I was a bit worried about >>>> the >>>> $40 cab fare each way from the hotel to the airport, so I asked about >>>> cheaper transportation and learned the following: >>>> >>>> There is a bus that picks up from Baggage Claim at both airport >>>> terminals >>>> every half hour on week days and every hour on weekends. The fare is >>>> $1.50. It >>>> drops off two blocks from the Marriott. It also does the return trip >>>> to >>>> the >>>> airport for the same fare. It is the Fort Street bus #125. >>>> >>>> I was really excited about this because it means I can save $77 in >>>> transportation costs and wanted to share the information with all of >>>> you. >>>> Hope this >>>> helps. >>>> >>>> Ronza >>>> >>>> **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 >>>> easy >>>> steps! >>>> ( >>>> >>>> http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1220863691x1201421954/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fwww.freecreditreport.com%2Fpm%2Fdefault.aspx%3Fsc%3D668072%26hmpgID >>>> %3D62%26bcd%3DMarchfooterNO62) >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> >>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> >>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b75205%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net >> > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b75205%40gmail.com > From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Mon Mar 23 02:57:46 2009 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Sun, 22 Mar 2009 19:57:46 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Bus from Detroit Airport to Marriott In-Reply-To: References: <27B0B1C15FB04C3EB59D51F4E01089D7@spike><8209C298C0EA43F2AD723ED1FD709677@spike> Message-ID: <74AC6B95D7D442D6B546C7288723818B@spike> this is actually a very valid problem where the strobe lights can cause effects such as nausea and in some cases can trigger seizure activity. I understand that this has also come to light regarding certain people with seizure disorders being around light shows, and arcades with video games with this type of lighting. Chucik ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Pepper" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Sunday, March 22, 2009 6:34 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Bus from Detroit Airport to Marriott > Well that the thing, I saw a man going through the airport in a wheel > chair > and he was covering his eyes. He was telling me it was all because of > this > problem. He said it was the guantlet, that's what he called it. It was a > strange thing to see this guy holding his eyes while the skycap was > pushing > the wheel chair. Apparently it causes nausea just with that much > exposure. > > Since the NFB convention is in Detroit, you all might want to investigate > this problem. It is an underground walkway under the airplanes between > two > terminals. > > James > > On Sun, Mar 22, 2009 at 4:00 AM, wrote: > >> just think of the potential litigation if the lights triggered seizure >> activity. >> Chuck >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Pepper" >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Saturday, March 21, 2009 9:18 PM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Bus from Detroit Airport to Marriott >> >> >> >> If you go through the detroit airport and you are photosensitive watch >> out >>> for the underground walkway because it has flashing lights strobe lights >>> which is considered art. It is a disaster for those sensitive to this >>> type >>> of problem. The lights span about 1000 feet and it takes about 5 >>> minutes >>> for you to pass through this area. >>> >>> James >>> >>> On Sat, Mar 21, 2009 at 8:09 PM, wrote: >>> >>> If it hasn't changed from when I lived in Detroit there is also >>> limousine >>>> service from the air port that goes to the various hotels. This may >>>> also >>>> be >>>> something that needs to be researched. >>>> Chuck >>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: >>>> To: ; ; < >>>> greater-baltimore at nfbnet.org>; ; >>> >; >>>> ; ; < >>>> njabs-talk at nfbnet.org> >>>> Sent: Saturday, March 21, 2009 3:18 PM >>>> Subject: [blindlaw] Bus from Detroit Airport to Marriott >>>> >>>> >>>> Hi Everyone, >>>> >>>>> >>>>> Today, I booked my hotel room for convention. I was a bit worried >>>>> about >>>>> the >>>>> $40 cab fare each way from the hotel to the airport, so I asked about >>>>> cheaper transportation and learned the following: >>>>> >>>>> There is a bus that picks up from Baggage Claim at both airport >>>>> terminals >>>>> every half hour on week days and every hour on weekends. The fare is >>>>> $1.50. It >>>>> drops off two blocks from the Marriott. It also does the return trip >>>>> to >>>>> the >>>>> airport for the same fare. It is the Fort Street bus #125. >>>>> >>>>> I was really excited about this because it means I can save $77 in >>>>> transportation costs and wanted to share the information with all of >>>>> you. >>>>> Hope this >>>>> helps. >>>>> >>>>> Ronza >>>>> >>>>> **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 >>>>> easy >>>>> steps! >>>>> ( >>>>> >>>>> http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1220863691x1201421954/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fwww.freecreditreport.com%2Fpm%2Fdefault.aspx%3Fsc%3D668072%26hmpgID >>>>> %3D62%26bcd%3DMarchfooterNO62) >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> blindlaw: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> >>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b75205%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b75205%40gmail.com >> > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net From carter.tjoseph at gmail.com Mon Mar 23 18:09:45 2009 From: carter.tjoseph at gmail.com (T. Joseph Carter) Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 11:09:45 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Bus from Detroit Airport to Marriott In-Reply-To: References: <27B0B1C15FB04C3EB59D51F4E01089D7@spike> <8209C298C0EA43F2AD723ED1FD709677@spike> Message-ID: <20090323180945.GC62271@yumi.bluecherry.net> All I can say, as an albino, is that I'm glad I've got a cane and know how to use it. Joseph On Sun, Mar 22, 2009 at 08:34:48PM -0500, James Pepper wrote: >Well that the thing, I saw a man going through the airport in a wheel chair >and he was covering his eyes. He was telling me it was all because of this >problem. He said it was the guantlet, that's what he called it. It was a >strange thing to see this guy holding his eyes while the skycap was pushing >the wheel chair. Apparently it causes nausea just with that much exposure. > >Since the NFB convention is in Detroit, you all might want to investigate >this problem. It is an underground walkway under the airplanes between two >terminals. > >James From my5thattempt at yahoo.com Tue Mar 24 20:28:51 2009 From: my5thattempt at yahoo.com (M BG) Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 13:28:51 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [blindlaw] Target suit Message-ID: <519022.95249.qm@web36702.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Not to beat a dead horse, but any word on the Target suit disbursements yet? From ms at browngold.com Tue Mar 24 20:55:23 2009 From: ms at browngold.com (Mehgan Sidhu) Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 16:55:23 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Target suit In-Reply-To: <519022.95249.qm@web36702.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <519022.95249.qm@web36702.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I have not heard anything recently. However, the claims administrator has 30 to 75 days from the date of the final order (which was March 10) to disburse the checks to claimants. So, it is unlikely that the checks will be received before mid-April, at the earliest. Mehgan Sidhu Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP 120 East Baltimore Street, Suite 1700 Baltimore, Maryland 21202 410-962-1030 x1324 410-385-0869 (fax) ms at browngold.com www.browngold.com Confidentiality Notice This e-mail may contain confidential information that may also be legally privileged and that is intended only for the use of the addressee(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient or an authorized agent of the recipient, please be advised that any dissemination or copying of this e-mail, or taking of any action in reliance on the information contained herein, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify me immediately by use of the reply button, and then delete the e-mail from your system. Thank you! -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of M BG Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2009 4:29 PM To: Blind Law Mailing List Subject: [blindlaw] Target suit Not to beat a dead horse, but any word on the Target suit disbursements yet? _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ms%40browngold.com From Tim.Ford at cdph.ca.gov Tue Mar 24 23:01:02 2009 From: Tim.Ford at cdph.ca.gov (Ford, Tim (CDPH-OLS)) Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 16:01:02 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Target suit In-Reply-To: References: <519022.95249.qm@web36702.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <839F18076C66C345BD1C0A4ACA67A1F60315B54C@dhsexcmsg12.intra.dhs.ca.gov> Having just dealt with a tax matter, I want to suggest that when recipients are sent their checks, it could be mentioned that the payments are taxable as ordinary income, if that is in fact the case. I am also assuming that these payments will be reported to IRS, so that warning may help folks to avoid later hearing from the IRS. I am guessing that a significant number of recipients would not even think that this would be something to include and pay taxes on. Now if there is some exception that covers these types of payments, then great, but I just wanted to mention this in case they are taxable. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Mehgan Sidhu Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2009 1:55 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Target suit I have not heard anything recently. However, the claims administrator has 30 to 75 days from the date of the final order (which was March 10) to disburse the checks to claimants. So, it is unlikely that the checks will be received before mid-April, at the earliest. Mehgan Sidhu Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP 120 East Baltimore Street, Suite 1700 Baltimore, Maryland 21202 410-962-1030 x1324 410-385-0869 (fax) ms at browngold.com www.browngold.com Confidentiality Notice This e-mail may contain confidential information that may also be legally privileged and that is intended only for the use of the addressee(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient or an authorized agent of the recipient, please be advised that any dissemination or copying of this e-mail, or taking of any action in reliance on the information contained herein, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify me immediately by use of the reply button, and then delete the e-mail from your system. Thank you! -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of M BG Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2009 4:29 PM To: Blind Law Mailing List Subject: [blindlaw] Target suit Not to beat a dead horse, but any word on the Target suit disbursements yet? _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ms%40browngold .com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tim.ford%40cdp h.ca.gov From dandrews at visi.com Thu Mar 26 13:45:25 2009 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 08:45:25 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] National Federation of the Blind Celebrates Release of the 2009 Louis Braille Bicentennial Silver Dollar Message-ID: FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE CONTACT: Chris Danielsen Director of Public Relations National Federation of the Blind (410) 659-9314, ext. 2330 (410) 262-1281 (Cell) cdanielsen at nfb.org National Federation of the Blind Celebrates Release of the 2009 Louis Braille Bicentennial Silver Dollar NFB Jernigan Institute Releases Report to the Nation on Braille Literacy Crisis Baltimore, Maryland (March 26, 2009): The National Federation of the Blind (NFB), the nation’s oldest and largest organization of blind people and the leading advocate for Braille literacy, today celebrates the release of the 2009 Louis Braille Bicentennial Silver Dollar. This historic commemorative coin, the first-ever U.S. coin to contain tactile, readable Braille, will be launched at a special ceremony at the headquarters of the National Federation of the Blind in Baltimore beginning at 10:00 a.m. on March 26, 2009. The NFB Jernigan Institute, the research and training arm of the National Federation of the Blind, will also release a report to the nation on the literacy crisis facing the blind in America. “The Braille Literacy Crisis in America: Facing the Truth, Reversing the Trend, Empowering the Blind” describes the factors that have contributed to the shocking illiteracy rate of 90 percent among blind children and outlines steps to reverse this trend. A portion of the money from sales of the 2009 Louis Braille Bicentennial Silver Dollar, which was authorized by a law signed by President George W. Bush in 2006, will be used to support the NFB’s “Braille Readers are Leaders” campaign. The campaign is a national initiative created to double the number of blind children learning Braille by 2015. Dr. Marc Maurer, President of the National Federation of the Blind, said: “If the blind can read, the blind can achieve. The Louis Braille Bicentennial Silver Dollar celebrates the man who gave literacy to the blind and is a unique and beautiful keepsake, but it is also a coin with a mission: to make sure that every blind child and every adult losing vision in our nation has the opportunity to learn Braille.” Dr. Fredric K. Schroeder, first vice president of the National Federation of the Blind and coordinator of the NFB’s national Braille Readers are Leaders campaign, said: “Braille is not being taught to many blind children and adults because there are myths and misconceptions surrounding the code. Braille is said to be slow and inefficient, difficult to learn, unnecessary in light of new technology, and something that isolates blind students from their sighted peers. But the blind know these myths to be false, and studies have shown that Braille leads to employment opportunities, independence, and self-confidence for blind people.” The program celebrating the launch of the Louis Braille Bicentennial Silver Dollar will feature: · The presentation of the report · Remarks by Dr. Marc Maurer, President of the National Federation of the Blind · Remarks by Dr. Abraham Nemeth, who invented the Braille code used for mathematics and scientific notation in the United States · Demonstrations by proficient Braille readers, including blind children · A message from United States Senator Christopher J. Dodd, chairman of the Committee on Banking, Housing and Urban Affairs and the sponsor of the legislation authorizing the Louis Braille Bicentennial Silver Dollar · Ed Moy, director of the United States Mint, who will give remarks and sign certificates of authenticity · A “Braille Fair” featuring fun activities for children and adults who want to learn about Braille The National Federation of the Blind is asking the American public, through purchasing this stunning silver dollar, to join its campaign to bring literacy, education, opportunity, and success to the blind of America. The Louis Braille Bicentennial Silver Dollar goes on sale to the general public at noon today. Those interested in ordering a coin should visit www.usmint.gov or call 1-800-USA-MINT (872-6468). For more information about the National Federation of the Blind and the Braille Readers are Leaders campaign, visit www.braille.org. ### David Andrews and white cane Harry. From dandrews at visi.com Fri Mar 27 20:40:37 2009 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 15:40:37 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Informational Picketing Against Authors Guild in New York City Message-ID: >From Chris Danielson: Dear Fellow Federationists: As you may already know, Amazon, Inc. released the newest version of its e-book reader, the Kindle, on February 9 of this year. The Kindle 2 includes a feature that allows e-books downloaded to it to be read aloud. The Authors Guild has objected to this feature because it believes these e-books are licensed only for visual display, and under pressure from the Guild, Amazon has decided to allow authors and publishers to decide which books can be read aloud by this device. Naturally, this is a blow to blind people and others with print disabilities who can benefit from the text-to-speech feature and who would love to be able to purchase books and start reading them immediately for the first time in history. For this reason the National Federation of the Blind has joined with other organizations representing people who cannot use print effectively to fight the Authors Guild. We plan to kick off our public education campaign to increase public pressure on the Authors Guild to reverse its stance with an informational protest in front of the Guild’s headquarters in New York City. This picket will take place on Tuesday, April 7, from noon until 2:00 p.m. I am writing to you in hopes that you can organize members to come to this protest. A number of Federationists from Maryland are coming and we expect participation from other organizations in the coalition, but it would be very helpful if those of you with easy access to New York City would help us by providing more picketers. It is extremely important that we make a strong impression on the Authors Guild and the media so that our message will be heard. In the next few days you will receive more communications with additional logistical details, as well as more information about our position and suggestions on how to respond to questions from the media. In the meantime, if you have additional questions, please do not hesitate to contact me. As soon as you have an idea of how many people may be able to come to this event, please provide that information to John Paré by calling 410-659-9314, ext. 2227, or by e-mailing jpare at nfb.org. Thank you for your assistance in this important matter. Sincerely: Chris Danielsen Christopher S. Danielsen Director of Public Relations NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND David Andrews and white cane Harry. From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Sat Mar 28 07:36:27 2009 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2009 00:36:27 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Informational Picketing Against Authors Guild in NewYork City In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <94D47A96FA004126B3FFB96F0B9C6F95@spike> If the legislative alert system previously discussed on this list hade been implemented members from all over the country could respond with emails or faxes to the Authors Guild to address this issue. This would be much more effective then to expect Federations spending hundreds of dollars on plain fare and hotel accommodations for this cause. While the information definitely needs to be provided there are much more effective ways for this to be done. Charles L. Krugman, M.S.W., ParalegalPresident, NFB of California Central Valley Chapter 1237 P Street Fresno ca 93721 559-266-9237 ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Andrews" To: Sent: Friday, March 27, 2009 1:40 PM Subject: [blindlaw] Informational Picketing Against Authors Guild in NewYork City >From Chris Danielson: Dear Fellow Federationists: As you may already know, Amazon, Inc. released the newest version of its e-book reader, the Kindle, on February 9 of this year. The Kindle 2 includes a feature that allows e-books downloaded to it to be read aloud. The Authors Guild has objected to this feature because it believes these e-books are licensed only for visual display, and under pressure from the Guild, Amazon has decided to allow authors and publishers to decide which books can be read aloud by this device. Naturally, this is a blow to blind people and others with print disabilities who can benefit from the text-to-speech feature and who would love to be able to purchase books and start reading them immediately for the first time in history. For this reason the National Federation of the Blind has joined with other organizations representing people who cannot use print effectively to fight the Authors Guild. We plan to kick off our public education campaign to increase public pressure on the Authors Guild to reverse its stance with an informational protest in front of the Guild's headquarters in New York City. This picket will take place on Tuesday, April 7, from noon until 2:00 p.m. I am writing to you in hopes that you can organize members to come to this protest. A number of Federationists from Maryland are coming and we expect participation from other organizations in the coalition, but it would be very helpful if those of you with easy access to New York City would help us by providing more picketers. It is extremely important that we make a strong impression on the Authors Guild and the media so that our message will be heard. In the next few days you will receive more communications with additional logistical details, as well as more information about our position and suggestions on how to respond to questions from the media. In the meantime, if you have additional questions, please do not hesitate to contact me. As soon as you have an idea of how many people may be able to come to this event, please provide that information to John Paré by calling 410-659-9314, ext. 2227, or by e-mailing jpare at nfb.org. Thank you for your assistance in this important matter. Sincerely: Chris Danielsen Christopher S. Danielsen Director of Public Relations NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND David Andrews and white cane Harry. _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net From everett at zufelt.ca Sat Mar 28 09:00:32 2009 From: everett at zufelt.ca (E.J. Zufelt) Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2009 06:00:32 -0300 Subject: [blindlaw] Informational Picketing Against Authors Guild in NewYork City In-Reply-To: <94D47A96FA004126B3FFB96F0B9C6F95@spike> References: <94D47A96FA004126B3FFB96F0B9C6F95@spike> Message-ID: <4D5D1503-3D66-471B-A599-6FEEF84E6840@zufelt.ca> Good morning, My concern with this action is whether or not the opinion expressed is representative of NFB membership. I for one believe that Amazon is well within their reasonable right to block this functionality from titles on their site to perserve the authors rights to their intellectual property. Perhaps a better approach would be for Amazon to be required to make an unlocked version of the texts available to individuals who register as text impaired. Understandably this method would have several problems that would have to be negotiated between all concerned parties. Just my two cents, Everett On 28-Mar-09, at 4:36 AM, wrote: > If the legislative alert system previously discussed on this list > hade been implemented members from all over the country could > respond with emails or faxes to the Authors Guild to address this > issue. This would be much more effective then to expect Federations > spending hundreds of dollars on plain fare and hotel accommodations > for this cause. While the information definitely needs to be > provided there are much more effective ways for this to be done. > Charles L. Krugman, M.S.W., ParalegalPresident, > NFB of California Central Valley Chapter > 1237 P Street > Fresno ca 93721 > 559-266-9237 > ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Andrews" > To: > Sent: Friday, March 27, 2009 1:40 PM > Subject: [blindlaw] Informational Picketing Against Authors Guild in > NewYork City > > > > >From Chris Danielson: > > Dear Fellow Federationists: > > As you may already know, Amazon, Inc. released the newest version of > its > > e-book reader, the Kindle, on February 9 of this year. The Kindle 2 > > includes a feature that allows e-books downloaded to it to be read > aloud. > > The Authors Guild has objected to this feature because it believes > these > > e-books are licensed only for visual display, and under pressure > from the > > Guild, Amazon has decided to allow authors and publishers to decide > which > > books can be read aloud by this device. Naturally, this is a blow > to blind > > people and others with print disabilities who can benefit from the > > text-to-speech feature and who would love to be able to purchase > books and > > start reading them immediately for the first time in history. For > this > > reason the National Federation of the Blind has joined with other > > organizations representing people who cannot use print effectively > to fight > > the Authors Guild. > > We plan to kick off our public education campaign to increase public > > pressure on the Authors Guild to reverse its stance with an > informational > > protest in front of the Guild's headquarters in New York City. This > picket > > will take place on Tuesday, April 7, from noon until 2:00 p.m. I am > writing > > to you in hopes that you can organize members to come to this > protest. A > > number of Federationists from Maryland are coming and we expect > > participation from other organizations in the coalition, but it > would be > > very helpful if those of you with easy access to New York City would > help us > > by providing more picketers. It is extremely important that we make a > > strong impression on the Authors Guild and the media so that our > message > > will be heard. > > In the next few days you will receive more communications with > additional > > logistical details, as well as more information about our position and > > suggestions on how to respond to questions from the media. In the > meantime, > > if you have additional questions, please do not hesitate to contact > me. As > > soon as you have an idea of how many people may be able to come to > this > > event, please provide that information to John Paré by calling > 410-659-9314, > > ext. 2227, or by e-mailing jpare at nfb.org. Thank you for your > assistance in > > this important matter. > > Sincerely: > > Chris Danielsen > > Christopher S. Danielsen > > Director of Public Relations > > NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND > > > David Andrews and white cane Harry. > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/everett%40zufelt.ca From cdanielsen8 at aol.com Sat Mar 28 11:16:27 2009 From: cdanielsen8 at aol.com (Chris Danielsen) Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2009 07:16:27 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Informational Picketing Against Authors Guild inNewYork City In-Reply-To: <4D5D1503-3D66-471B-A599-6FEEF84E6840@zufelt.ca> References: <94D47A96FA004126B3FFB96F0B9C6F95@spike> <4D5D1503-3D66-471B-A599-6FEEF84E6840@zufelt.ca> Message-ID: <50AF7F0597184596939D794676C898AF@Scorpio13> Hi Everett, First, let me say that not only are Federation members supportive of this action, but we have in fact reached out to other disability organizations representing individuals with spinal cord injuries, dyslexia and other learning disabilities, and other print disabilities and they are all in agreement with this position. Second, the issue here is not whether authors have the right to control their intellectual property, which they most certainly do. The issue is whether they can parse up the uses of an e-book that an individual has already paid for and claim that each potential use of it is an intellectual property right. The Authors Guild is upset because Amazon added a text-to-speech function to its Kindle 2, which means that downloaded e-books can be read aloud. Initially, Amazon did not plan to include the ability to disable that function; the company only backed down when the Authors Guild raised a stink. But the fact is that Amazon was initially legally correct to believe that there was no inherent intellectual property right involved. The reading aloud of text that one has purchased, in private, is not a copyright violation but a fair use. To argue otherwise is to argue that parents who read bedtime stories to their kids, or for that matter blind people who have a print textbook read aloud to them by a reader (human or machine), are violating copyright law. This is ridiculous and every copyright lawyer worth his or her salt knows it; even the Authors Guild is now backing down from it, arguing instead that the terms of their contracts prohibit this use. It makes absolutely no difference whether the reading aloud is done by a human or a machine, as long as there is no "public performance" or derivative work created. The Authors Guild wants what you have suggested--a registration system for people with disabilities, who would then be allowed to unlock the text-to-speech function. But more than just blind people are affected here, and many of them have disabilities that are not tied to a specific organic cause and can't be medically diagnosed. Besides, who would administer this system? Amazon? The Authors Guild? And more to the point, why should disabled readers have to register to read a book that we have paid good money for? The Guild's position is tantamount to saying, "You can buy our e-books but you can't read them without clearance from us." It is unacceptable and discriminatory. Bottom line; Everyone who pays good money for an e-book--which is not inherently either a visual or audio work and could conceivably be converted into even more formats, including Braille--should be able to read it in whatever form works best for them. The authors have a chance here to get money from the disability community--a revenue stream they've never had before since right now we get a lot of our reading material from free or subscription services like NLS or Bookshare. But our money apparently isn't good enough for them. Sure, they're motivated not by keeping us out but by trying to keep out the sighted, in order to make sure that the sighted either pay a surcharge for text-to-speech or buy the much more expensive audio book version. But that's just greed, not an intellectual property dispute. And disabled people who have legitimate reading problems but can't "prove" them to the satisfaction of the Authors Guild will also have to pay that surcharge. This is wrong on many levels and it's lousy business too. I hope that in light of all this you will consider supporting our action. Library services for the blind and others have their place, but the advent of the e-book means that we no longer have to be locked into those systems and potentially will have access to a much broader array of literary content. This has been the dream of the blind and others with print disabilities for generations. We are not going to let a knee-jerk, poorly thought out reaction from some authors organization take that dream away. Chris -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of E.J. Zufelt Sent: Saturday, March 28, 2009 5:01 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Informational Picketing Against Authors Guild inNewYork City Good morning, My concern with this action is whether or not the opinion expressed is representative of NFB membership. I for one believe that Amazon is well within their reasonable right to block this functionality from titles on their site to perserve the authors rights to their intellectual property. Perhaps a better approach would be for Amazon to be required to make an unlocked version of the texts available to individuals who register as text impaired. Understandably this method would have several problems that would have to be negotiated between all concerned parties. Just my two cents, Everett On 28-Mar-09, at 4:36 AM, wrote: > If the legislative alert system previously discussed on this list > hade been implemented members from all over the country could > respond with emails or faxes to the Authors Guild to address this > issue. This would be much more effective then to expect Federations > spending hundreds of dollars on plain fare and hotel accommodations > for this cause. While the information definitely needs to be > provided there are much more effective ways for this to be done. > Charles L. Krugman, M.S.W., ParalegalPresident, > NFB of California Central Valley Chapter > 1237 P Street > Fresno ca 93721 > 559-266-9237 > ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Andrews" > To: > Sent: Friday, March 27, 2009 1:40 PM > Subject: [blindlaw] Informational Picketing Against Authors Guild in > NewYork City > > > > >From Chris Danielson: > > Dear Fellow Federationists: > > As you may already know, Amazon, Inc. released the newest version of > its > > e-book reader, the Kindle, on February 9 of this year. The Kindle 2 > > includes a feature that allows e-books downloaded to it to be read > aloud. > > The Authors Guild has objected to this feature because it believes > these > > e-books are licensed only for visual display, and under pressure > from the > > Guild, Amazon has decided to allow authors and publishers to decide > which > > books can be read aloud by this device. Naturally, this is a blow > to blind > > people and others with print disabilities who can benefit from the > > text-to-speech feature and who would love to be able to purchase > books and > > start reading them immediately for the first time in history. For > this > > reason the National Federation of the Blind has joined with other > > organizations representing people who cannot use print effectively > to fight > > the Authors Guild. > > We plan to kick off our public education campaign to increase public > > pressure on the Authors Guild to reverse its stance with an > informational > > protest in front of the Guild's headquarters in New York City. This > picket > > will take place on Tuesday, April 7, from noon until 2:00 p.m. I am > writing > > to you in hopes that you can organize members to come to this > protest. A > > number of Federationists from Maryland are coming and we expect > > participation from other organizations in the coalition, but it > would be > > very helpful if those of you with easy access to New York City would > help us > > by providing more picketers. It is extremely important that we make a > > strong impression on the Authors Guild and the media so that our > message > > will be heard. > > In the next few days you will receive more communications with > additional > > logistical details, as well as more information about our position and > > suggestions on how to respond to questions from the media. In the > meantime, > > if you have additional questions, please do not hesitate to contact > me. As > > soon as you have an idea of how many people may be able to come to > this > > event, please provide that information to John Paré by calling > 410-659-9314, > > ext. 2227, or by e-mailing jpare at nfb.org. Thank you for your > assistance in > > this important matter. > > Sincerely: > > Chris Danielsen > > Christopher S. Danielsen > > Director of Public Relations > > NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND > > > David Andrews and white cane Harry. > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob al.net > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/everett%40zufelt.c a _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3971 (20090328) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3972 (20090328) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From everett at zufelt.ca Sat Mar 28 12:25:11 2009 From: everett at zufelt.ca (E.J. Zufelt) Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2009 09:25:11 -0300 Subject: [blindlaw] Informational Picketing Against Authors Guild inNewYork City In-Reply-To: <50AF7F0597184596939D794676C898AF@Scorpio13> References: <94D47A96FA004126B3FFB96F0B9C6F95@spike> <4D5D1503-3D66-471B-A599-6FEEF84E6840@zufelt.ca> <50AF7F0597184596939D794676C898AF@Scorpio13> Message-ID: Good morning, Interesting, I think that the word that persuades me here is performance. The argument then, as I understand it, is that the reading aloud, by a person or machine, of a work differs from an audio book that is commercially produced that would be considered a performance of the work. I think that I can accept that to be a reasonable distinction between the two. So, even if the ability to have a work read aloud impacts negatively on an authors return on investment, which it may not, it is as a result of evolving technology and is something that the authoring industry will need to deal with in the same manner as other industries must deal with the potential negative economic impact of evolving technology. Thanks for your thorough explanation, Everett On 28-Mar-09, at 8:16 AM, Chris Danielsen wrote: > Hi Everett, > > First, let me say that not only are Federation members supportive of > this > action, but we have in fact reached out to other disability > organizations > representing individuals with spinal cord injuries, dyslexia and other > learning disabilities, and other print disabilities and they are all > in > agreement with this position. Second, the issue here is not whether > authors > have the right to control their intellectual property, which they most > certainly do. The issue is whether they can parse up the uses of an > e-book > that an individual has already paid for and claim that each > potential use of > it is an intellectual property right. > > The Authors Guild is upset because Amazon added a text-to-speech > function to > its Kindle 2, which means that downloaded e-books can be read aloud. > Initially, Amazon did not plan to include the ability to disable that > function; the company only backed down when the Authors Guild raised a > stink. But the fact is that Amazon was initially legally correct to > believe > that there was no inherent intellectual property right involved. The > reading > aloud of text that one has purchased, in private, is not a copyright > violation but a fair use. To argue otherwise is to argue that > parents who > read bedtime stories to their kids, or for that matter blind people > who have > a print textbook read aloud to them by a reader (human or machine), > are > violating copyright law. This is ridiculous and every copyright > lawyer worth > his or her salt knows it; even the Authors Guild is now backing down > from > it, arguing instead that the terms of their contracts prohibit this > use. It > makes absolutely no difference whether the reading aloud is done by > a human > or a machine, as long as there is no "public performance" or > derivative work > created. > > The Authors Guild wants what you have suggested--a registration > system for > people with disabilities, who would then be allowed to unlock the > text-to-speech function. But more than just blind people are > affected here, > and many of them have disabilities that are not tied to a specific > organic > cause and can't be medically diagnosed. Besides, who would > administer this > system? Amazon? The Authors Guild? And more to the point, why should > disabled readers have to register to read a book that we have paid > good > money for? The Guild's position is tantamount to saying, "You can > buy our > e-books but you can't read them without clearance from us." It is > unacceptable and discriminatory. > > Bottom line; Everyone who pays good money for an e-book--which is not > inherently either a visual or audio work and could conceivably be > converted > into even more formats, including Braille--should be able to read it > in > whatever form works best for them. The authors have a chance here to > get > money from the disability community--a revenue stream they've never > had > before since right now we get a lot of our reading material from > free or > subscription services like NLS or Bookshare. But our money > apparently isn't > good enough for them. Sure, they're motivated not by keeping us out > but by > trying to keep out the sighted, in order to make sure that the sighted > either pay a surcharge for text-to-speech or buy the much more > expensive > audio book version. But that's just greed, not an intellectual > property > dispute. And disabled people who have legitimate reading problems > but can't > "prove" them to the satisfaction of the Authors Guild will also have > to pay > that surcharge. This is wrong on many levels and it's lousy business > too. I > hope that in light of all this you will consider supporting our > action. > > Library services for the blind and others have their place, but the > advent > of the e-book means that we no longer have to be locked into those > systems > and potentially will have access to a much broader array of literary > content. This has been the dream of the blind and others with print > disabilities for generations. We are not going to let a knee-jerk, > poorly > thought out reaction from some authors organization take that dream > away. > > Chris > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw- > bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of E.J. Zufelt > Sent: Saturday, March 28, 2009 5:01 AM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Informational Picketing Against Authors Guild > inNewYork City > > Good morning, > > My concern with this action is whether or not the opinion expressed is > representative of NFB membership. I for one believe that Amazon is > well within their reasonable right to block this functionality from > titles on their site to perserve the authors rights to their > intellectual property. > > Perhaps a better approach would be for Amazon to be required to make > an unlocked version of the texts available to individuals who register > as text impaired. Understandably this method would have several > problems that would have to be negotiated between all concerned > parties. > > Just my two cents, > Everett > > > On 28-Mar-09, at 4:36 AM, wrote: > >> If the legislative alert system previously discussed on this list >> hade been implemented members from all over the country could >> respond with emails or faxes to the Authors Guild to address this >> issue. This would be much more effective then to expect Federations >> spending hundreds of dollars on plain fare and hotel accommodations >> for this cause. While the information definitely needs to be >> provided there are much more effective ways for this to be done. >> Charles L. Krugman, M.S.W., ParalegalPresident, >> NFB of California Central Valley Chapter >> 1237 P Street >> Fresno ca 93721 >> 559-266-9237 >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Andrews" >> >> To: >> Sent: Friday, March 27, 2009 1:40 PM >> Subject: [blindlaw] Informational Picketing Against Authors Guild in >> NewYork City >> >> >> >>> From Chris Danielson: >> >> Dear Fellow Federationists: >> >> As you may already know, Amazon, Inc. released the newest version of >> its >> >> e-book reader, the Kindle, on February 9 of this year. The Kindle 2 >> >> includes a feature that allows e-books downloaded to it to be read >> aloud. >> >> The Authors Guild has objected to this feature because it believes >> these >> >> e-books are licensed only for visual display, and under pressure >> from the >> >> Guild, Amazon has decided to allow authors and publishers to decide >> which >> >> books can be read aloud by this device. Naturally, this is a blow >> to blind >> >> people and others with print disabilities who can benefit from the >> >> text-to-speech feature and who would love to be able to purchase >> books and >> >> start reading them immediately for the first time in history. For >> this >> >> reason the National Federation of the Blind has joined with other >> >> organizations representing people who cannot use print effectively >> to fight >> >> the Authors Guild. >> >> We plan to kick off our public education campaign to increase public >> >> pressure on the Authors Guild to reverse its stance with an >> informational >> >> protest in front of the Guild's headquarters in New York City. This >> picket >> >> will take place on Tuesday, April 7, from noon until 2:00 p.m. I am >> writing >> >> to you in hopes that you can organize members to come to this >> protest. A >> >> number of Federationists from Maryland are coming and we expect >> >> participation from other organizations in the coalition, but it >> would be >> >> very helpful if those of you with easy access to New York City would >> help us >> >> by providing more picketers. It is extremely important that we >> make a >> >> strong impression on the Authors Guild and the media so that our >> message >> >> will be heard. >> >> In the next few days you will receive more communications with >> additional >> >> logistical details, as well as more information about our position >> and >> >> suggestions on how to respond to questions from the media. In the >> meantime, >> >> if you have additional questions, please do not hesitate to contact >> me. As >> >> soon as you have an idea of how many people may be able to come to >> this >> >> event, please provide that information to John Paré by calling >> 410-659-9314, >> >> ext. 2227, or by e-mailing jpare at nfb.org. Thank you for your >> assistance in >> >> this important matter. >> >> Sincerely: >> >> Chris Danielsen >> >> Christopher S. Danielsen >> >> Director of Public Relations >> >> NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND >> >> >> David Andrews and white cane Harry. >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob > al.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/everett%40zufelt.c > a > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol > . > com > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature > database 3971 (20090328) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature > database 3972 (20090328) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/everett%40zufelt.ca From mikefry79 at gmail.com Sat Mar 28 16:17:16 2009 From: mikefry79 at gmail.com (Michael Fry) Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2009 09:17:16 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Informational Picketing Against Authors Guild inNewYork City In-Reply-To: References: <94D47A96FA004126B3FFB96F0B9C6F95@spike> <4D5D1503-3D66-471B-A599-6FEEF84E6840@zufelt.ca> <50AF7F0597184596939D794676C898AF@Scorpio13> Message-ID: <8c58e54a0903280917t4d5b93ear95d903b361ddceab@mail.gmail.com> Without doing an in depth analysis of the issue I will simply say that I strongly support the NFB on this issue. I'm very proud of the NFB for courageously taking up a difficult fight whose positive outcome will in all practical terms improve the lives of the blind. The Guild's neo-luddite stance is shameful and wrong. I will go so far as to say that any anti-technology or scientific advancement policy or stance is detrimental to the visually impaired community because it is only through this technology that the lot of the visually impaired is appreciably improved and frankly the only path to eventually curing blindness. But that's a broader message used perhaps as a guideline that may already be tacitly incorporated into the NFB's mission statement. The NFB should form a coalition with it's other disability advocacy brothers such as those with spinal cord injury ect. to oppose any luddite stances and vigorously advocate the federal government for increased hard life science research and development and less draconian regulations. On Sat, Mar 28, 2009 at 5:25 AM, E.J. Zufelt wrote: > Good morning, > > Interesting, I think that the word that persuades me here is performance. > The argument then, as I understand it, is that the reading aloud, by a > person or machine, of a work differs from an audio book that is commercially > produced that would be considered a performance of the work. I think that I > can accept that to be a reasonable distinction between the two. So, even if > the ability to have a work read aloud impacts negatively on an authors > return on investment, which it may not, it is as a result of evolving > technology and is something that the authoring industry will need to deal > with in the same manner as other industries must deal with the potential > negative economic impact of evolving technology. > > Thanks for your thorough explanation, > Everett > > > > On 28-Mar-09, at 8:16 AM, Chris Danielsen wrote: > > Hi Everett, >> >> First, let me say that not only are Federation members supportive of this >> action, but we have in fact reached out to other disability organizations >> representing individuals with spinal cord injuries, dyslexia and other >> learning disabilities, and other print disabilities and they are all in >> agreement with this position. Second, the issue here is not whether >> authors >> have the right to control their intellectual property, which they most >> certainly do. The issue is whether they can parse up the uses of an e-book >> that an individual has already paid for and claim that each potential use >> of >> it is an intellectual property right. >> >> The Authors Guild is upset because Amazon added a text-to-speech function >> to >> its Kindle 2, which means that downloaded e-books can be read aloud. >> Initially, Amazon did not plan to include the ability to disable that >> function; the company only backed down when the Authors Guild raised a >> stink. But the fact is that Amazon was initially legally correct to >> believe >> that there was no inherent intellectual property right involved. The >> reading >> aloud of text that one has purchased, in private, is not a copyright >> violation but a fair use. To argue otherwise is to argue that parents who >> read bedtime stories to their kids, or for that matter blind people who >> have >> a print textbook read aloud to them by a reader (human or machine), are >> violating copyright law. This is ridiculous and every copyright lawyer >> worth >> his or her salt knows it; even the Authors Guild is now backing down from >> it, arguing instead that the terms of their contracts prohibit this use. >> It >> makes absolutely no difference whether the reading aloud is done by a >> human >> or a machine, as long as there is no "public performance" or derivative >> work >> created. >> >> The Authors Guild wants what you have suggested--a registration system for >> people with disabilities, who would then be allowed to unlock the >> text-to-speech function. But more than just blind people are affected >> here, >> and many of them have disabilities that are not tied to a specific organic >> cause and can't be medically diagnosed. Besides, who would administer this >> system? Amazon? The Authors Guild? And more to the point, why should >> disabled readers have to register to read a book that we have paid good >> money for? The Guild's position is tantamount to saying, "You can buy our >> e-books but you can't read them without clearance from us." It is >> unacceptable and discriminatory. >> >> Bottom line; Everyone who pays good money for an e-book--which is not >> inherently either a visual or audio work and could conceivably be >> converted >> into even more formats, including Braille--should be able to read it in >> whatever form works best for them. The authors have a chance here to get >> money from the disability community--a revenue stream they've never had >> before since right now we get a lot of our reading material from free or >> subscription services like NLS or Bookshare. But our money apparently >> isn't >> good enough for them. Sure, they're motivated not by keeping us out but by >> trying to keep out the sighted, in order to make sure that the sighted >> either pay a surcharge for text-to-speech or buy the much more expensive >> audio book version. But that's just greed, not an intellectual property >> dispute. And disabled people who have legitimate reading problems but >> can't >> "prove" them to the satisfaction of the Authors Guild will also have to >> pay >> that surcharge. This is wrong on many levels and it's lousy business too. >> I >> hope that in light of all this you will consider supporting our action. >> >> Library services for the blind and others have their place, but the advent >> of the e-book means that we no longer have to be locked into those systems >> and potentially will have access to a much broader array of literary >> content. This has been the dream of the blind and others with print >> disabilities for generations. We are not going to let a knee-jerk, poorly >> thought out reaction from some authors organization take that dream away. >> >> Chris >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf Of E.J. Zufelt >> Sent: Saturday, March 28, 2009 5:01 AM >> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Informational Picketing Against Authors Guild >> inNewYork City >> >> Good morning, >> >> My concern with this action is whether or not the opinion expressed is >> representative of NFB membership. I for one believe that Amazon is >> well within their reasonable right to block this functionality from >> titles on their site to perserve the authors rights to their >> intellectual property. >> >> Perhaps a better approach would be for Amazon to be required to make >> an unlocked version of the texts available to individuals who register >> as text impaired. Understandably this method would have several >> problems that would have to be negotiated between all concerned parties. >> >> Just my two cents, >> Everett >> >> >> On 28-Mar-09, at 4:36 AM, wrote: >> >> If the legislative alert system previously discussed on this list >>> hade been implemented members from all over the country could >>> respond with emails or faxes to the Authors Guild to address this >>> issue. This would be much more effective then to expect Federations >>> spending hundreds of dollars on plain fare and hotel accommodations >>> for this cause. While the information definitely needs to be >>> provided there are much more effective ways for this to be done. >>> Charles L. Krugman, M.S.W., ParalegalPresident, >>> NFB of California Central Valley Chapter >>> 1237 P Street >>> Fresno ca 93721 >>> 559-266-9237 >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Andrews" >>> To: >>> Sent: Friday, March 27, 2009 1:40 PM >>> Subject: [blindlaw] Informational Picketing Against Authors Guild in >>> NewYork City >>> >>> >>> >>> From Chris Danielson: >>>> >>> >>> Dear Fellow Federationists: >>> >>> As you may already know, Amazon, Inc. released the newest version of >>> its >>> >>> e-book reader, the Kindle, on February 9 of this year. The Kindle 2 >>> >>> includes a feature that allows e-books downloaded to it to be read >>> aloud. >>> >>> The Authors Guild has objected to this feature because it believes >>> these >>> >>> e-books are licensed only for visual display, and under pressure >>> from the >>> >>> Guild, Amazon has decided to allow authors and publishers to decide >>> which >>> >>> books can be read aloud by this device. Naturally, this is a blow >>> to blind >>> >>> people and others with print disabilities who can benefit from the >>> >>> text-to-speech feature and who would love to be able to purchase >>> books and >>> >>> start reading them immediately for the first time in history. For >>> this >>> >>> reason the National Federation of the Blind has joined with other >>> >>> organizations representing people who cannot use print effectively >>> to fight >>> >>> the Authors Guild. >>> >>> We plan to kick off our public education campaign to increase public >>> >>> pressure on the Authors Guild to reverse its stance with an >>> informational >>> >>> protest in front of the Guild's headquarters in New York City. This >>> picket >>> >>> will take place on Tuesday, April 7, from noon until 2:00 p.m. I am >>> writing >>> >>> to you in hopes that you can organize members to come to this >>> protest. A >>> >>> number of Federationists from Maryland are coming and we expect >>> >>> participation from other organizations in the coalition, but it >>> would be >>> >>> very helpful if those of you with easy access to New York City would >>> help us >>> >>> by providing more picketers. It is extremely important that we make a >>> >>> strong impression on the Authors Guild and the media so that our >>> message >>> >>> will be heard. >>> >>> In the next few days you will receive more communications with >>> additional >>> >>> logistical details, as well as more information about our position and >>> >>> suggestions on how to respond to questions from the media. In the >>> meantime, >>> >>> if you have additional questions, please do not hesitate to contact >>> me. As >>> >>> soon as you have an idea of how many people may be able to come to >>> this >>> >>> event, please provide that information to John Paré by calling >>> 410-659-9314, >>> >>> ext. 2227, or by e-mailing jpare at nfb.org. Thank you for your >>> assistance in >>> >>> this important matter. >>> >>> Sincerely: >>> >>> Chris Danielsen >>> >>> Christopher S. Danielsen >>> >>> Director of Public Relations >>> >>> NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND >>> >>> >>> David Andrews and white cane Harry. >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for blindlaw: >>> >>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob >> al.net >> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for blindlaw: >>> >>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/everett%40zufelt.c >> a >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol >> . >> com >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >> signature >> database 3971 (20090328) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >> signature >> database 3972 (20090328) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/everett%40zufelt.ca >> > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mikefry79%40gmail.com > From johnrsheehan at yahoo.com Sat Mar 28 19:34:05 2009 From: johnrsheehan at yahoo.com (John Sheehan) Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2009 12:34:05 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [blindlaw] Informational Picketing Against Authors Guild in New York City In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <587382.84772.qm@web53807.mail.re2.yahoo.com> The Xavier Society for the Blind strongly supports this effort - we'll put the note (and additional information as it becomes available) on our website and we will encourage people to show up. I will definitely be there.   Fr. John R. Sheehan, SJ Chairman Xavier Society for the Blind 154 East 23rd St New York, NY 10010 Office 212 473-7800 Help us raise money for the Xavier Society for the Blind just by searching the Internet or shopping online with GoodSearch - www.goodsearch.com - powered by Yahoo! Free for you - and money for us! Thank you. ________________________________ From: David Andrews To: david.andrews at nfbnet.org Sent: Friday, March 27, 2009 4:40:37 PM Subject: [blindlaw] Informational Picketing Against Authors Guild in New York City >From Chris Danielson: Dear Fellow Federationists: As you may already know, Amazon, Inc. released the newest version of its e-book reader, the Kindle, on February 9 of this year.  The Kindle 2 includes a feature that allows e-books downloaded to it to be read aloud. The Authors Guild has objected to this feature because it believes these e-books are licensed only for visual display, and under pressure from the Guild, Amazon has decided to allow authors and publishers to decide which books can be read aloud by this device.  Naturally, this is a blow to blind people and others with print disabilities who can benefit from the text-to-speech feature and who would love to be able to purchase books and start reading them immediately for the first time in history.  For this reason the National Federation of the Blind has joined with other organizations representing people who cannot use print effectively to fight the Authors Guild. We plan to kick off our public education campaign to increase public pressure on the Authors Guild to reverse its stance with an informational protest in front of the Guild’s headquarters in New York City.  This picket will take place on Tuesday, April 7, from noon until 2:00 p.m.  I am writing to you in hopes that you can organize members to come to this protest.  A number of Federationists from Maryland are coming and we expect participation from other organizations in the coalition, but it would be very helpful if those of you with easy access to New York City would help us by providing more picketers.  It is extremely important that we make a strong impression on the Authors Guild and the media so that our message will be heard. In the next few days you will receive more communications with additional logistical details, as well as more information about our position and suggestions on how to respond to questions from the media.  In the meantime, if you have additional questions, please do not hesitate to contact me.  As soon as you have an idea of how many people may be able to come to this event, please provide that information to John Paré by calling 410-659-9314, ext. 2227, or by e-mailing jpare at nfb.org.  Thank you for your assistance in this important matter. Sincerely: Chris Danielsen Christopher S. Danielsen Director of Public Relations NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND David Andrews and white cane Harry. _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/johnrsheehan%40yahoo.com From kdbenterprises at yahoo.com Sat Mar 28 20:17:10 2009 From: kdbenterprises at yahoo.com (kdb) Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2009 13:17:10 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [blindlaw] NO MORE EXCUSES - THE BLIND HAVE RIGHTS TO "HEAR WHAT OTHERS SEE" CHALLENGE 09 Message-ID: <629281.6247.qm@web57315.mail.re1.yahoo.com> DEAR EVERYONE WHO CARES! re: Author's Guild/ Amazon Actions and Excuses.... So few seem to really understand, or rather choose instead to ignore, the fact that a product "VISUALLY" offered to us as consumers does nothing for the large segment of our population who are of low vision or blind. Instead it effectively continues the long time practice of discrimination and essentially disallows the visually disabled from active participation in what all others who can see are offered. .. The point remains easy to recognize but seemingly easier to forget: for most visually disabled individuals, their ears aretheir eyes. So, Please help others to understand this as you will gain better insight into the issues after reading the digest contained below following this message and challenge which concerns an attempt to organize a protest against AMAZON.com & the Author's Guild.. Please continue reading and decide if you will join this challenge by signing and sending this on to gain support and possibly convince an attorney or lawyer group to take this human rights issue through those almighty courthouse doors. Then please do scroll below the signatures to read the digest itself from the mighty and wonderful BlindLaw Yahoo group, There you will learn of dates of the protest in NY City planned for April 7, 2009. This is the larger challenge however: via a class action case we propose a suit to prohibit all communication, written notification companies and producers of any type of communication devise or software etc., especially phones, fax machines, all cell phone/tech equipment, and all other products designed to communicate and / or offer communication messages and methods, so production/designer companies refrain from further discrimination against the blind and low visioned population. It is proposed that by establishing this as a requirement during all communication devises production and designing it so accountability is built into the law to prove that all devises etc. are produced with text to speech/voice recognition and voice command abilities so the ease of use feature activates from start up through usage AND established reasonable costs for the devises are based on the average income levels of the disabled. Also essential to this effort will be to establishing the doctor's authority to write Rx's for essential communication devises, these may vary and will need to be defined in the case, and require insurance company/medicaid and medicare, approvals to pay for the devise or equipment. This elimination of an effective equally accessible communication system via text to speech/voice commands and voice recognition software, already developed and in operation with screen reader abilities, must be applied and useable - as well as user friendly - on all platforms including Apple/mac product - ie.. the latest ipod shuffle with reading aloud abilities throughout every menu and sub menu thus making it useable by the blind and visually impaired! This simple system is essential and finally available to the sightless, those who so often, too often, suffer the indignities of a profit seeking - world. A world where others MAKE THE DECISIONS TO HOLD back the rights of the disabled yet make profits often on them by selling them the only products available that are much too difficult for them to easily operate let alone, set up to use! And then, too often , the cost is prohibitive for so many! So why is a universally accessible communication policy and system that assures equal access via these technologies and software still not equally and always available to the blind and low visioned? IS MONEY THE EXCUSE?? Too expensive to produce? Can't use that excuse as it is already out there and has been for years. So, WHAT OTHER REASON COULD IT BE TO NOT have speaking abilities, voice command, voice recognition software built in to the equipment (like the easy to use VoiceOver in mac products) and easily accessible to all visually disabled people? These are the people who require it to have equal access to all that is offered visually to the sighted. AND YES! Braille counts but braille is ONLY ONE WAY AND IS, TO MOST IN TODAYS WORLD, NO LONGER THE EASIEST METHOD. For the deaf and blind perhaps but not so any longer for the Visually Disabled who are able to hear!!! Some items that are available are so costly the expense prohibits many to secure the services. And this is called accessibility? I think not! This seems to remain a legal/human rights for the disabled ADA issue and also seems to indicate it really should be a class action suit leading to the highest level so ALL equipment is made speakable and is useable at a FREE or very reasonable cost to the low visioned and blind users. It applies to all aspects of communication devises such as TV and movies, VDRs , PDAs, clocks, watches, ANYTHING others can see to communicate thoughts or facts and knowledge that the low visioned or blind cannot!!! Why does NOT that make sense to everyone? Money ? That is not an acceptable answer. Consider: Years ago, the deaf fought for hearing aides. And cost was a factor until the fight was won and hearing devices where on the market until the demand was satisfied and costs went down to a reasonable level - in most cases. Insurances were accessed and the story goes on. All must have access - equally! Not selectively! The blind / low visioned MUST have the ability to have all aspects of communication devices spoken aloud to them, especially land line phone caller ID by name and number, phone buttons, all sub-menus within the system, remotes and all sub menus within their oiperating suystems.. the list goes on forever. My long time hope remains that a caring dedicated lawyer will take on this noble cause and keep the world informed as it progresses! Including a text to speech method so the blind too can be aware of what is happening around them as well as what may effect them and can then allow then the option of choice to determine if they want to participate in that effort or act on the information learned or not. Copywrite issues are critical but human rights far exceed them. How can one be part of an effort - perhaps to decide to purchase the book or music or movie etc. if one is not able to understand the communication regarding them because it is only offered VISUALLY? SIMPLY PUT,DESIGNERS AND PRODUCERS OF EQUIPMENT MUST USE SOFTWARE TO USE THE AUDITORY CHANNEL OF THE VISUALLY DISABLED SO THEY TOO ARE INCLUDED IN THE POPULATION. That is it in a nutshell. Now we must fight to get it unilaterally applied to everything. If you agree or disagree this will not be criticized as we all learn form others and our errors are often times corrected through discourse and debate. It is asked that you do so politely, however. Please feel free to comment to help move this noble effort forward. Please help the Blind and Visually Disabled gain equal access to today's technologically advanced world similar to the level those of us who "see with our eyes" are able to do! Thanks for spreading the word. PS - An aside but a notable one: Seems as if a huge part of the profit producing market is being left out of the "BRILLIANT" marketing strategies of communication products, does it not? Foolish move. Tired of excuses, FEEL FREE TO SEND ANY PART OR ALL OF THIS PROTEST AS YOUR OWN WITH ANY CHANGES YOU FEEL WOULD HELP TO INFLUENCE THOSE IN AUTHORITY WITH THE POWER TO CHANGE THIS SITUATION AND GRANT THESE BASIC RIGHTS TO THE BLIND AND VISUALLY IMPAIRED. YES WE CAN! WE CAN CHANGE THIS!... JOIN THIS EFFORT FOR OUR SIGHTLESS RELATIVES AND FRIENDS, PLEASE. AS I SO SADLY LEARNED, TOMORROW BLINDNESS COULD VERY EASILY AFFECT AND /OR INCLUDE YOU! We are 'Tired of Excuses", ***PLEASE SCROLL AND READ BELOW OUR E- SIGNATURES/ EFFORTS FROM THE BLIND LAW DIGEST: KATHY AND DENNIS DIBONA ALICE DRABIK ROSE TURNER kdbenterprises at yahoo.comhttp://fl.local.yahoo.biz/kdbenterprises/index.html From: "blindlaw-request at nfbnet.org" To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org Sent: Saturday, March 28, 2009 1:00:12 PM Subject: blindlaw Digest, Vol 58, Issue 28 Send blindlaw mailing list submissions to blindlaw at nfbnet.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to blindlaw-request at nfbnet.org Today's Topics: Informational Picketing Against Authors Guild in New York Message: 1 Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 15:40:37 -0500 From: David Andrews Subject: [blindlaw] Informational Picketing Against Authors Guild in New York City To: david.andrews at nfbnet.org Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed >From Chris Danielson: Dear Fellow Federationists: As you may already know, Amazon, Inc.. released the newest version of its e-book reader, the Kindle, on February 9 of this year. The Kindle 2 includes a feature that allows e-books downloaded to it to be read aloud. The Authors Guild has objected to this feature because it believes these e-books are licensed only for visual display, and under pressure from the Guild, Amazon has decided to allow authors and publishers to decide which books can be read aloud by this device. Naturally, this is a blow to blind people and others with print disabilities who can benefit from the text-to-speech feature and who would love to be able to purchase books and start reading them immediately for the first time in history. For this reason the National Federation of the Blind has joined with other organizations representing people who cannot use print effectively to fight the Authors Guild. We plan to kick off our public education campaign to increase public pressure on the Authors Guild to reverse its stance with an informational protest in front of the Guild?s headquarters in New York City. This picket will take place on Tuesday, April 7, from noon until 2:00 p.m. I am writing to you in hopes that you can organize members to come to this protest. A number of Federationists from Maryland are coming and we expect participation from other organizations in the coalition, but it would be very helpful if those of you with easy access to New York City would help us by providing more picketers. It is extremely important that we make a strong impression on the Authors Guild and the media so that our message will be heard. In the next few days you will receive more communications with additional logistical details, as well as more information about our position and suggestions on how to respond to questions from the media. In the meantime, if you have additional questions, please do not hesitate to contact me. As soon as you have an idea of how many people may be able to come to this event, please provide that information to John Par? by calling 410-659-9314, ext. 2227, or by e-mailing jpare at nfb.org. Thank you for your assistance in this important matter. Sincerely: Chris Danielsen Christopher S. Danielsen Director of Public Relations NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND David Andrews and white cane Harry. ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2009 00:36:27 -0700 From: Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Informational Picketing Against Authors Guild in NewYork City To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Message-ID: <94D47A96FA004126B3FFB96F0B9C6F95 at spike> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response If the legislative alert system previously discussed on this list hade been implemented members from all over the country could respond with emails or faxes to the Authors Guild to address this issue. This would be much more effective then to expect Federations spending hundreds of dollars on plain fare and hotel accommodations for this cause. While the information definitely needs to be provided there are much more effective ways for this to be done. Charles L. Krugman, M.S.W., ParalegalPresident, NFB of California Central Valley Chapter 1237 P Street Fresno ca 93721 559-266-9237 ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Andrews" To: Sent: Friday, March 27, 2009 1:40 PM Subject: [blindlaw] Informational Picketing Against Authors Guild in NewYork City >From Chris Danielson: Dear Fellow Federationists: As you may already know, Amazon, Inc. released the newest version of its e-book reader, the Kindle, on February 9 of this year. The Kindle 2 includes a feature that allows e-books downloaded to it to be read aloud. The Authors Guild has objected to this feature because it believes these e-books are licensed only for visual display, and under pressure from the Guild, Amazon has decided to allow authors and publishers to decide which books can be read aloud by this device. Naturally, this is a blow to blind people and others with print disabilities who can benefit from the text-to-speech feature and who would love to be able to purchase books and start reading them immediately for the first time in history. For this reason the National Federation of the Blind has joined with other organizations representing people who cannot use print effectively to fight the Authors Guild. We plan to kick off our public education campaign to increase public pressure on the Authors Guild to reverse its stance with an informational protest in front of the Guild's headquarters in New York City. This picket will take place on Tuesday, April 7, from noon until 2:00 p.m. I am writing to you in hopes that you can organize members to come to this protest. A number of Federationists from Maryland are coming and we expect participation from other organizations in the coalition, but it would be very helpful if those of you with easy access to New York City would help us by providing more picketers. It is extremely important that we make a strong impression on the Authors Guild and the media so that our message will be heard. In the next few days you will receive more communications with additional logistical details, as well as more information about our position and suggestions on how to respond to questions from the media. In the meantime, if you have additional questions, please do not hesitate to contact me. As soon as you have an idea of how many people may be able to come to this event, please provide that information to John Par? by calling 410-659-9314, ext. 2227, or by e-mailing jpare at nfb.org. Thank you for your assistance in this important matter. Sincerely: Chris Danielsen Christopher S. Danielsen Director of Public Relations NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND David Andrews and white cane Harry. _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2009 06:00:32 -0300 From: "E.J. Zufelt" Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Informational Picketing Against Authors Guild in NewYork City To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Message-ID: <4D5D1503-3D66-471B-A599-6FEEF84E6840 at zufelt.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed; delsp=yes Good morning, My concern with this action is whether or not the opinion expressed is representative of NFB membership. I for one believe that Amazon is well within their reasonable right to block this functionality from titles on their site to perserve the authors rights to their intellectual property. Perhaps a better approach would be for Amazon to be required to make an unlocked version of the texts available to individuals who register as text impaired. Understandably this method would have several problems that would have to be negotiated between all concerned parties. Just my two cents, Everett On 28-Mar-09, at 4:36 AM, wrote: > If the legislative alert system previously discussed on this list > hade been implemented members from all over the country could > respond with emails or faxes to the Authors Guild to address this > issue. This would be much more effective then to expect Federations > spending hundreds of dollars on plain fare and hotel accommodations > for this cause. While the information definitely needs to be > provided there are much more effective ways for this to be done. > Charles L. Krugman, M.S.W., ParalegalPresident, > NFB of California Central Valley Chapter > 1237 P Street > Fresno ca 93721 > 559-266-9237 > ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Andrews" > To: > Sent: Friday, March 27, 2009 1:40 PM > Subject: [blindlaw] Informational Picketing Against Authors Guild in > NewYork City > > > > >From Chris Danielson: > > Dear Fellow Federationists: > > As you may already know, Amazon, Inc. released the newest version of > its > > e-book reader, the Kindle, on February 9 of this year. The Kindle 2 > > includes a feature that allows e-books downloaded to it to be read > aloud. > > The Authors Guild has objected to this feature because it believes > these > > e-books are licensed only for visual display, and under pressure > from the > > Guild, Amazon has decided to allow authors and publishers to decide > which > > books can be read aloud by this device. Naturally, this is a blow > to blind > > people and others with print disabilities who can benefit from the > > text-to-speech feature and who would love to be able to purchase > books and > > start reading them immediately for the first time in history. For > this > > reason the National Federation of the Blind has joined with other > > organizations representing people who cannot use print effectively > to fight > > the Authors Guild. > > We plan to kick off our public education campaign to increase public > > pressure on the Authors Guild to reverse its stance with an > informational > > protest in front of the Guild's headquarters in New York City. This > picket > > will take place on Tuesday, April 7, from noon until 2:00 p.m. I am > writing > > to you in hopes that you can organize members to come to this > protest. A > > number of Federationists from Maryland are coming and we expect > > participation from other organizations in the coalition, but it > would be > > very helpful if those of you with easy access to New York City would > help us > > by providing more picketers. It is extremely important that we make a > > strong impression on the Authors Guild and the media so that our > message > > will be heard. > > In the next few days you will receive more communications with > additional > > logistical details, as well as more information about our position and > > suggestions on how to respond to questions from the media. In the > meantime, > > if you have additional questions, please do not hesitate to contact > me. As > > soon as you have an idea of how many people may be able to come to > this > > event, please provide that information to John Par? by calling > 410-659-9314, > > ext. 2227, or by e-mailing jpare at nfb.org. Thank you for your > assistance in > > this important matter. > > Sincerely: > > Chris Danielsen > > Christopher S. Danielsen > > Director of Public Relations > > NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND > > > David Andrews and white cane Harry. > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/everett%40zufelt.ca ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2009 07:16:27 -0400 From: "Chris Danielsen" Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Informational Picketing Against Authors Guild inNewYork City To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Message-ID: <50AF7F0597184596939D794676C898AF at Scorpio13> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hi Everett, First, let me say that not only are Federation members supportive of this action, but we have in fact reached out to other disability organizations representing individuals with spinal cord injuries, dyslexia and other learning disabilities, and other print disabilities and they are all in agreement with this position. Second, the issue here is not whether authors have the right to control their intellectual property, which they most certainly do. The issue is whether they can parse up the uses of an e-book that an individual has already paid for and claim that each potential use of it is an intellectual property right. The Authors Guild is upset because Amazon added a text-to-speech function to its Kindle 2, which means that downloaded e-books can be read aloud. Initially, Amazon did not plan to include the ability to disable that function; the company only backed down when the Authors Guild raised a stink. But the fact is that Amazon was initially legally correct to believe that there was no inherent intellectual property right involved. The reading aloud of text that one has purchased, in private, is not a copyright violation but a fair use. To argue otherwise is to argue that parents who read bedtime stories to their kids, or for that matter blind people who have a print textbook read aloud to them by a reader (human or machine), are violating copyright law. This is ridiculous and every copyright lawyer worth his or her salt knows it; even the Authors Guild is now backing down from it, arguing instead that the terms of their contracts prohibit this use. It makes absolutely no difference whether the reading aloud is done by a human or a machine, as long as there is no "public performance" or derivative work created. The Authors Guild wants what you have suggested--a registration system for people with disabilities, who would then be allowed to unlock the text-to-speech function. But more than just blind people are affected here, and many of them have disabilities that are not tied to a specific organic cause and can't be medically diagnosed. Besides, who would administer this system? Amazon? The Authors Guild? And more to the point, why should disabled readers have to register to read a book that we have paid good money for? The Guild's position is tantamount to saying, "You can buy our e-books but you can't read them without clearance from us." It is unacceptable and discriminatory. Bottom line; Everyone who pays good money for an e-book--which is not inherently either a visual or audio work and could conceivably be converted into even more formats, including Braille--should be able to read it in whatever form works best for them. The authors have a chance here to get money from the disability community--a revenue stream they've never had before since right now we get a lot of our reading material from free or subscription services like NLS or Bookshare. But our money apparently isn't good enough for them. Sure, they're motivated not by keeping us out but by trying to keep out the sighted, in order to make sure that the sighted either pay a surcharge for text-to-speech or buy the much more expensive audio book version. But that's just greed, not an intellectual property dispute. And disabled people who have legitimate reading problems but can't "prove" them to the satisfaction of the Authors Guild will also have to pay that surcharge. This is wrong on many levels and it's lousy business too. I hope that in light of all this you will consider supporting our action. Library services for the blind and others have their place, but the advent of the e-book means that we no longer have to be locked into those systems and potentially will have access to a much broader array of literary content. This has been the dream of the blind and others with print disabilities for generations. We are not going to let a knee-jerk, poorly thought out reaction from some authors organization take that dream away. Chris -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of E.J. Zufelt Sent: Saturday, March 28, 2009 5:01 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Informational Picketing Against Authors Guild inNewYork City Good morning, My concern with this action is whether or not the opinion expressed is representative of NFB membership. I for one believe that Amazon is well within their reasonable right to block this functionality from titles on their site to perserve the authors rights to their intellectual property. Perhaps a better approach would be for Amazon to be required to make an unlocked version of the texts available to individuals who register as text impaired. Understandably this method would have several problems that would have to be negotiated between all concerned parties. Just my two cents, Everett On 28-Mar-09, at 4:36 AM, wrote: > If the legislative alert system previously discussed on this list > hade been implemented members from all over the country could > respond with emails or faxes to the Authors Guild to address this > issue. This would be much more effective then to expect Federations > spending hundreds of dollars on plain fare and hotel accommodations > for this cause. While the information definitely needs to be > provided there are much more effective ways for this to be done. > Charles L. Krugman, M.S.W., ParalegalPresident, > NFB of California Central Valley Chapter > 1237 P Street > Fresno ca 93721 > 559-266-9237 > ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Andrews" > To: > Sent: Friday, March 27, 2009 1:40 PM > Subject: [blindlaw] Informational Picketing Against Authors Guild in > NewYork City > > > > >From Chris Danielson: > > Dear Fellow Federationists: > > As you may already know, Amazon, Inc. released the newest version of > its > > e-book reader, the Kindle, on February 9 of this year. The Kindle 2 > > includes a feature that allows e-books downloaded to it to be read > aloud. > > The Authors Guild has objected to this feature because it believes > these > > e-books are licensed only for visual display, and under pressure > from the > > Guild, Amazon has decided to allow authors and publishers to decide > which > > books can be read aloud by this device. Naturally, this is a blow > to blind > > people and others with print disabilities who can benefit from the > > text-to-speech feature and who would love to be able to purchase > books and > > start reading them immediately for the first time in history. For > this > > reason the National Federation of the Blind has joined with other > > organizations representing people who cannot use print effectively > to fight > > the Authors Guild. > > We plan to kick off our public education campaign to increase public > > pressure on the Authors Guild to reverse its stance with an > informational > > protest in front of the Guild's headquarters in New York City. This > picket > > will take place on Tuesday, April 7, from noon until 2:00 p.m. I am > writing > > to you in hopes that you can organize members to come to this > protest. A > > number of Federationists from Maryland are coming and we expect > > participation from other organizations in the coalition, but it > would be > > very helpful if those of you with easy access to New York City would > help us > > by providing more picketers. It is extremely important that we make a > > strong impression on the Authors Guild and the media so that our > message > > will be heard. > > In the next few days you will receive more communications with > additional > > logistical details, as well as more information about our position and > > suggestions on how to respond to questions from the media. In the > meantime, > > if you have additional questions, please do not hesitate to contact > me. As > > soon as you have an idea of how many people may be able to come to > this > > event, please provide that information to John Par? by calling > 410-659-9314, > > ext. 2227, or by e-mailing jpare at nfb.org. Thank you for your > assistance in > > this important matter. > > Sincerely: > > Chris Danielsen > > Christopher S. Danielsen > > Director of Public Relations > > NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND > > > David Andrews and white cane Harry. > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob al.net > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/everett%40zufelt.c a _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3971 (20090328) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3972 (20090328) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2009 09:25:11 -0300 From: "E.J. Zufelt" Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Informational Picketing Against Authors Guild inNewYork City To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed; delsp=yes Good morning, Interesting, I think that the word that persuades me here is performance. The argument then, as I understand it, is that the reading aloud, by a person or machine, of a work differs from an audio book that is commercially produced that would be considered a performance of the work. I think that I can accept that to be a reasonable distinction between the two.. So, even if the ability to have a work read aloud impacts negatively on an authors return on investment, which it may not, it is as a result of evolving technology and is something that the authoring industry will need to deal with in the same manner as other industries must deal with the potential negative economic impact of evolving technology. Thanks for your thorough explanation, Everett On 28-Mar-09, at 8:16 AM, Chris Danielsen wrote: > Hi Everett, > > First, let me say that not only are Federation members supportive of > this > action, but we have in fact reached out to other disability > organizations > representing individuals with spinal cord injuries, dyslexia and other > learning disabilities, and other print disabilities and they are all > in > agreement with this position. Second, the issue here is not whether > authors > have the right to control their intellectual property, which they most > certainly do. The issue is whether they can parse up the uses of an > e-book > that an individual has already paid for and claim that each > potential use of > it is an intellectual property right. > > The Authors Guild is upset because Amazon added a text-to-speech > function to > its Kindle 2, which means that downloaded e-books can be read aloud. > Initially, Amazon did not plan to include the ability to disable that > function; the company only backed down when the Authors Guild raised a > stink. But the fact is that Amazon was initially legally correct to > believe > that there was no inherent intellectual property right involved. The > reading > aloud of text that one has purchased, in private, is not a copyright > violation but a fair use. To argue otherwise is to argue that > parents who > read bedtime stories to their kids, or for that matter blind people > who have > a print textbook read aloud to them by a reader (human or machine), > are > violating copyright law. This is ridiculous and every copyright > lawyer worth > his or her salt knows it; even the Authors Guild is now backing down > from > it, arguing instead that the terms of their contracts prohibit this > use. It > makes absolutely no difference whether the reading aloud is done by > a human > or a machine, as long as there is no "public performance" or > derivative work > created. > > The Authors Guild wants what you have suggested--a registration > system for > people with disabilities, who would then be allowed to unlock the > text-to-speech function. But more than just blind people are > affected here, > and many of them have disabilities that are not tied to a specific > organic > cause and can't be medically diagnosed. Besides, who would > administer this > system? Amazon? The Authors Guild? And more to the point, why should > disabled readers have to register to read a book that we have paid > good > money for? The Guild's position is tantamount to saying, "You can > buy our > e-books but you can't read them without clearance from us." It is > unacceptable and discriminatory. > > Bottom line; Everyone who pays good money for an e-book--which is not > inherently either a visual or audio work and could conceivably be > converted > into even more formats, including Braille--should be able to read it > in > whatever form works best for them. The authors have a chance here to > get > money from the disability community--a revenue stream they've never > had > before since right now we get a lot of our reading material from > free or > subscription services like NLS or Bookshare. But our money > apparently isn't > good enough for them. Sure, they're motivated not by keeping us out > but by > trying to keep out the sighted, in order to make sure that the sighted > either pay a surcharge for text-to-speech or buy the much more > expensive > audio book version. But that's just greed, not an intellectual > property > dispute. And disabled people who have legitimate reading problems > but can't > "prove" them to the satisfaction of the Authors Guild will also have > to pay > that surcharge. This is wrong on many levels and it's lousy business > too. I > hope that in light of all this you will consider supporting our > action. > > Library services for the blind and others have their place, but the > advent > of the e-book means that we no longer have to be locked into those > systems > and potentially will have access to a much broader array of literary > content. This has been the dream of the blind and others with print > disabilities for generations. We are not going to let a knee-jerk, > poorly > thought out reaction from some authors organization take that dream > away. > > Chris > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw- > bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of E.J. Zufelt > Sent: Saturday, March 28, 2009 5:01 AM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Informational Picketing Against Authors Guild > inNewYork City > > Good morning, > > My concern with this action is whether or not the opinion expressed is > representative of NFB membership. I for one believe that Amazon is > well within their reasonable right to block this functionality from > titles on their site to perserve the authors rights to their > intellectual property. > > Perhaps a better approach would be for Amazon to be required to make > an unlocked version of the texts available to individuals who register > as text impaired. Understandably this method would have several > problems that would have to be negotiated between all concerned > parties. > > Just my two cents, > Everett > > > On 28-Mar-09, at 4:36 AM, wrote: > >> If the legislative alert system previously discussed on this list >> hade been implemented members from all over the country could >> respond with emails or faxes to the Authors Guild to address this >> issue. This would be much more effective then to expect Federations >> spending hundreds of dollars on plain fare and hotel accommodations >> for this cause. While the information definitely needs to be >> provided there are much more effective ways for this to be done. >> Charles L. Krugman, M.S.W., ParalegalPresident, >> NFB of California Central Valley Chapter >> 1237 P Street >> Fresno ca 93721 >> 559-266-9237 >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Andrews" >> >> To: >> Sent: Friday, March 27, 2009 1:40 PM >> Subject: [blindlaw] Informational Picketing Against Authors Guild in >> NewYork City >> >> >> >>> From Chris Danielson: >> >> Dear Fellow Federationists: >> >> As you may already know, Amazon, Inc. released the newest version of >> its >> >> e-book reader, the Kindle, on February 9 of this year. The Kindle 2 >> >> includes a feature that allows e-books downloaded to it to be read >> aloud. >> >> The Authors Guild has objected to this feature because it believes >> these >> >> e-books are licensed only for visual display, and under pressure >> from the >> >> Guild, Amazon has decided to allow authors and publishers to decide >> which >> >> books can be read aloud by this device. Naturally, this is a blow >> to blind >> >> people and others with print disabilities who can benefit from the >> >> text-to-speech feature and who would love to be able to purchase >> books and >> >> start reading them immediately for the first time in history. For >> this >> >> reason the National Federation of the Blind has joined with other >> >> organizations representing people who cannot use print effectively >> to fight >> >> the Authors Guild. >> >> We plan to kick off our public education campaign to increase public >> >> pressure on the Authors Guild to reverse its stance with an >> informational >> >> protest in front of the Guild's headquarters in New York City. This >> picket >> >> will take place on Tuesday, April 7, from noon until 2:00 p.m. I am >> writing >> >> to you in hopes that you can organize members to come to this >> protest. A >> >> number of Federationists from Maryland are coming and we expect >> >> participation from other organizations in the coalition, but it >> would be >> >> very helpful if those of you with easy access to New York City would >> help us >> >> by providing more picketers. It is extremely important that we >> make a >> >> strong impression on the Authors Guild and the media so that our >> message >> >> will be heard. >> >> In the next few days you will receive more communications with >> additional >> >> logistical details, as well as more information about our position >> and >> >> suggestions on how to respond to questions from the media. In the >> meantime, >> >> if you have additional questions, please do not hesitate to contact >> me. As >> >> soon as you have an idea of how many people may be able to come to >> this >> >> event, please provide that information to John Par? by calling >> 410-659-9314, >> >> ext. 2227, or by e-mailing jpare at nfb.org. Thank you for your >> assistance in >> >> this important matter. >> >> Sincerely: >> >> Chris Danielsen >> >> Christopher S. Danielsen >> >> Director of Public Relations >> >> NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND >> >> >> David Andrews and white cane Harry. >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob > al.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/everett%40zufelt.c > a > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol > . > com > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature > database 3971 (20090328) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature > database 3972 (20090328) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet..org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/everett%40zufelt.ca ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2009 09:17:16 -0700 From: Michael Fry Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Informational Picketing Against Authors Guild inNewYork City To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Message-ID: <8c58e54a0903280917t4d5b93ear95d903b361ddceab at mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Without doing an in depth analysis of the issue I will simply say that I strongly support the NFB on this issue. I'm very proud of the NFB for courageously taking up a difficult fight whose positive outcome will in all practical terms improve the lives of the blind. The Guild's neo-luddite stance is shameful and wrong. I will go so far as to say that any anti-technology or scientific advancement policy or stance is detrimental to the visually impaired community because it is only through this technology that the lot of the visually impaired is appreciably improved and frankly the only path to eventually curing blindness. But that's a broader message used perhaps as a guideline that may already be tacitly incorporated into the NFB's mission statement. The NFB should form a coalition with it's other disability advocacy brothers such as those with spinal cord injury ect. to oppose any luddite stances and vigorously advocate the federal government for increased hard life science research and development and less draconian regulations. On Sat, Mar 28, 2009 at 5:25 AM, E.J. Zufelt wrote: > Good morning, > > Interesting, I think that the word that persuades me here is performance. > The argument then, as I understand it, is that the reading aloud, by a > person or machine, of a work differs from an audio book that is commercially > produced that would be considered a performance of the work. I think that I > can accept that to be a reasonable distinction between the two. So, even if > the ability to have a work read aloud impacts negatively on an authors > return on investment, which it may not, it is as a result of evolving > technology and is something that the authoring industry will need to deal > with in the same manner as other industries must deal with the potential > negative economic impact of evolving technology. > > Thanks for your thorough explanation, > Everett > > > > On 28-Mar-09, at 8:16 AM, Chris Danielsen wrote: > > Hi Everett, >> >> First, let me say that not only are Federation members supportive of this >> action, but we have in fact reached out to other disability organizations >> representing individuals with spinal cord injuries, dyslexia and other >> learning disabilities, and other print disabilities and they are all in >> agreement with this position. Second, the issue here is not whether >> authors >> have the right to control their intellectual property, which they most >> certainly do. The issue is whether they can parse up the uses of an e-book >> that an individual has already paid for and claim that each potential use >> of >> it is an intellectual property right. >> >> The Authors Guild is upset because Amazon added a text-to-speech function >> to >> its Kindle 2, which means that downloaded e-books can be read aloud. >> Initially, Amazon did not plan to include the ability to disable that >> function; the company only backed down when the Authors Guild raised a >> stink.. But the fact is that Amazon was initially legally correct to >> believe >> that there was no inherent intellectual property right involved. The >> reading >> aloud of text that one has purchased, in private, is not a copyright >> violation but a fair use. To argue otherwise is to argue that parents who >> read bedtime stories to their kids, or for that matter blind people who >> have >> a print textbook read aloud to them by a reader (human or machine), are >> violating copyright law. This is ridiculous and every copyright lawyer >> worth >> his or her salt knows it; even the Authors Guild is now backing down from >> it, arguing instead that the terms of their contracts prohibit this use. >> It >> makes absolutely no difference whether the reading aloud is done by a >> human >> or a machine, as long as there is no "public performance" or derivative >> work >> created. >> >> The Authors Guild wants what you have suggested--a registration system for >> people with disabilities, who would then be allowed to unlock the >> text-to-speech function. But more than just blind people are affected >> here, >> and many of them have disabilities that are not tied to a specific organic >> cause and can't be medically diagnosed. Besides, who would administer this >> system? Amazon? The Authors Guild? And more to the point, why should >> disabled readers have to register to read a book that we have paid good >> money for? The Guild's position is tantamount to saying, "You can buy our >> e-books but you can't read them without clearance from us." It is >> unacceptable and discriminatory. >> >> Bottom line; Everyone who pays good money for an e-book--which is not >> inherently either a visual or audio work and could conceivably be >> converted >> into even more formats, including Braille--should be able to read it in >> whatever form works best for them. The authors have a chance here to get >> money from the disability community--a revenue stream they've never had >> before since right now we get a lot of our reading material from free or >> subscription services like NLS or Bookshare. But our money apparently >> isn't >> good enough for them. Sure, they're motivated not by keeping us out but by >> trying to keep out the sighted, in order to make sure that the sighted >> either pay a surcharge for text-to-speech or buy the much more expensive >> audio book version. But that's just greed, not an intellectual property >> dispute. And disabled people who have legitimate reading problems but >> can't >> "prove" them to the satisfaction of the Authors Guild will also have to >> pay >> that surcharge. This is wrong on many levels and it's lousy business too. >> I >> hope that in light of all this you will consider supporting our action. >> >> Library services for the blind and others have their place, but the advent >> of the e-book means that we no longer have to be locked into those systems >> and potentially will have access to a much broader array of literary >> content. This has been the dream of the blind and others with print >> disabilities for generations. We are not going to let a knee-jerk, poorly >> thought out reaction from some authors organization take that dream away. >> >> Chris >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf Of E.J. Zufelt >> Sent: Saturday, March 28, 2009 5:01 AM >> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Informational Picketing Against Authors Guild >> inNewYork City >> >> Good morning, >> >> My concern with this action is whether or not the opinion expressed is >> representative of NFB membership. I for one believe that Amazon is >> well within their reasonable right to block this functionality from >> titles on their site to perserve the authors rights to their >> intellectual property. >> >> Perhaps a better approach would be for Amazon to be required to make >> an unlocked version of the texts available to individuals who register >> as text impaired. Understandably this method would have several >> problems that would have to be negotiated between all concerned parties. >> >> Just my two cents, >> Everett >> >> >> On 28-Mar-09, at 4:36 AM, wrote: >> >> If the legislative alert system previously discussed on this list >>> hade been implemented members from all over the country could >>> respond with emails or faxes to the Authors Guild to address this >>> issue. This would be much more effective then to expect Federations >>> spending hundreds of dollars on plain fare and hotel accommodations >>> for this cause. While the information definitely needs to be >>> provided there are much more effective ways for this to be done. >>> Charles L. Krugman, M.S.W., ParalegalPresident, >>> NFB of California Central Valley Chapter >>> 1237 P Street >>> Fresno ca 93721 >>> 559-266-9237 >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Andrews" >>> To: >>> Sent: Friday, March 27, 2009 1:40 PM >>> Subject: [blindlaw] Informational Picketing Against Authors Guild in >>> NewYork City >>> >>> >>> >>> From Chris Danielson: >>>> >>> >>> Dear Fellow Federationists: >>> >>> As you may already know, Amazon, Inc. released the newest version of >>> its >>> >>> e-book reader, the Kindle, on February 9 of this year. The Kindle 2 >>> >>> includes a feature that allows e-books downloaded to it to be read >>> aloud. >>> >>> The Authors Guild has objected to this feature because it believes >>> these >>> >>> e-books are licensed only for visual display, and under pressure >>> from the >>> >>> Guild, Amazon has decided to allow authors and publishers to decide >>> which >>> >>> books can be read aloud by this device. Naturally, this is a blow >>> to blind >>> >>> people and others with print disabilities who can benefit from the >>> >>> text-to-speech feature and who would love to be able to purchase >>> books and >>> >>> start reading them immediately for the first time in history. For >>> this >>> >>> reason the National Federation of the Blind has joined with other >>> >>> organizations representing people who cannot use print effectively >>> to fight >>> >>> the Authors Guild. >>> >>> We plan to kick off our public education campaign to increase public >>> >>> pressure on the Authors Guild to reverse its stance with an >>> informational >>> >>> protest in front of the Guild's headquarters in New York City. This >>> picket >>> >>> will take place on Tuesday, April 7, from noon until 2:00 p.m. I am >>> writing >>> >>> to you in hopes that you can organize members to come to this >>> protest. A >>> >>> number of Federationists from Maryland are coming and we expect >>> >>> participation from other organizations in the coalition, but it >>> would be >>> >>> very helpful if those of you with easy access to New York City would >>> help us >>> >>> by providing more picketers. It is extremely important that we make a >>> >>> strong impression on the Authors Guild and the media so that our >>> message >>> >>> will be heard. >>> >>> In the next few days you will receive more communications with >>> additional >>> >>> logistical details, as well as more information about our position and >>> >>> suggestions on how to respond to questions from the media. In the >>> meantime, >>> >>> if you have additional questions, please do not hesitate to contact >>> me. As >>> >>> soon as you have an idea of how many people may be able to come to >>> this >>> >>> event, please provide that information to John Par? by calling >>> 410-659-9314, >>> >>> ext. 2227, or by e-mailing jpare at nfb.org. Thank you for your >>> assistance in >>> >>> this important matter. >>> >>> Sincerely: >>> >>> Chris Danielsen >>> >>> Christopher S. Danielsen >>> >>> Director of Public Relations >>> >>> NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND >>> >>> >>> David Andrews and white cane Harry. >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for blindlaw: >>> >>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob >> al.net >> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for blindlaw: >>> >>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/everett%40zufelt.c >> a >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol >> . >> com >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >> signature >> database 3971 (20090328) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >> signature >> database 3972 (20090328) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/everett%40zufelt.ca >> > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mikefry79%40gmail.com > ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org End of blindlaw Digest, Vol 58, Issue 28 **************************************** From timandvickie at hotmail.com Sat Mar 28 22:21:09 2009 From: timandvickie at hotmail.com (Tim Shaw) Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2009 22:21:09 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] Informational Picketing Against Authors Guild in New York City In-Reply-To: <587382.84772.qm@web53807.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <587382.84772.qm@web53807.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: good luck, wish i could be there, but 1. i cant afford it. and 2. that will be the second day of my new job, dont think i sohuld ask for a day off that early;) > Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2009 12:34:05 -0700 > From: johnrsheehan at yahoo.com > To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org; david.andrews at nfbnet.org > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Informational Picketing Against Authors Guild in New York City > > The Xavier Society for the Blind strongly supports this effort - we'll put the note (and additional information as it becomes available) on our website and we will encourage people to show up. I will definitely be there. > > Fr. John R. Sheehan, SJ > Chairman > Xavier Society for the Blind > 154 East 23rd St > New York, NY 10010 > > Office 212 473-7800 > Help us raise money for the Xavier Society for the Blind just by searching the Internet or shopping online with GoodSearch - www.goodsearch.com - powered by Yahoo! Free for you - and money for us! Thank you. > > > > > ________________________________ > From: David Andrews > To: david.andrews at nfbnet.org > Sent: Friday, March 27, 2009 4:40:37 PM > Subject: [blindlaw] Informational Picketing Against Authors Guild in New York City > > > >From Chris Danielson: > > Dear Fellow Federationists: > > As you may already know, Amazon, Inc. released the newest version of its > > e-book reader, the Kindle, on February 9 of this year. The Kindle 2 > > includes a feature that allows e-books downloaded to it to be read aloud. > > The Authors Guild has objected to this feature because it believes these > > e-books are licensed only for visual display, and under pressure from the > > Guild, Amazon has decided to allow authors and publishers to decide which > > books can be read aloud by this device. Naturally, this is a blow to blind > > people and others with print disabilities who can benefit from the > > text-to-speech feature and who would love to be able to purchase books and > > start reading them immediately for the first time in history. For this > > reason the National Federation of the Blind has joined with other > > organizations representing people who cannot use print effectively to fight > > the Authors Guild. > > We plan to kick off our public education campaign to increase public > > pressure on the Authors Guild to reverse its stance with an informational > > protest in front of the Guild’s headquarters in New York City. This picket > > will take place on Tuesday, April 7, from noon until 2:00 p.m. I am writing > > to you in hopes that you can organize members to come to this protest. A > > number of Federationists from Maryland are coming and we expect > > participation from other organizations in the coalition, but it would be > > very helpful if those of you with easy access to New York City would help us > > by providing more picketers. It is extremely important that we make a > > strong impression on the Authors Guild and the media so that our message > > will be heard. > > In the next few days you will receive more communications with additional > > logistical details, as well as more information about our position and > > suggestions on how to respond to questions from the media. In the meantime, > > if you have additional questions, please do not hesitate to contact me. As > > soon as you have an idea of how many people may be able to come to this > > event, please provide that information to John Paré by calling 410-659-9314, > > ext. 2227, or by e-mailing jpare at nfb.org. Thank you for your assistance in > > this important matter. > > Sincerely: > > Chris Danielsen > > Christopher S. Danielsen > > Director of Public Relations > > NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND > > > David Andrews and white cane Harry. > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/johnrsheehan%40yahoo.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/timandvickie%40hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ Express your personality in color! Preview and select themes for Hotmail®. http://www.windowslive-hotmail.com/LearnMore/personalize.aspx?ocid=TXT_MSGTX_WL_HM_express_032009#colortheme From cdanielsen8 at aol.com Sun Mar 29 00:43:41 2009 From: cdanielsen8 at aol.com (Chris Danielsen) Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2009 20:43:41 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Informational Picketing Against Authors GuildinNewYork City In-Reply-To: References: <94D47A96FA004126B3FFB96F0B9C6F95@spike><4D5D1503-3D66-471B-A599-6FEEF84E6840@zufelt.ca><50AF7F0597184596939D794676C898AF@Scorpio13> Message-ID: You're exactly right. In my opinion this is not dissimilar to what happened with the music industry, where there was also a knee-jerk reaction against new technology but now you're starting to see download services without DRM. You can go back further than that and see that the same thing happened with VCR's. The pattern is that industries always feel threatened by new technology that they feel loosens the control they have on their product, but the public is way ahead of them. I suspect that the pattern will be repeated in this case. Hopefully our action will move the cycle along a lot faster though. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of E.J. Zufelt Sent: Saturday, March 28, 2009 8:25 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Informational Picketing Against Authors GuildinNewYork City Good morning, Interesting, I think that the word that persuades me here is performance. The argument then, as I understand it, is that the reading aloud, by a person or machine, of a work differs from an audio book that is commercially produced that would be considered a performance of the work. I think that I can accept that to be a reasonable distinction between the two. So, even if the ability to have a work read aloud impacts negatively on an authors return on investment, which it may not, it is as a result of evolving technology and is something that the authoring industry will need to deal with in the same manner as other industries must deal with the potential negative economic impact of evolving technology. Thanks for your thorough explanation, Everett On 28-Mar-09, at 8:16 AM, Chris Danielsen wrote: > Hi Everett, > > First, let me say that not only are Federation members supportive of > this > action, but we have in fact reached out to other disability > organizations > representing individuals with spinal cord injuries, dyslexia and other > learning disabilities, and other print disabilities and they are all > in > agreement with this position. Second, the issue here is not whether > authors > have the right to control their intellectual property, which they most > certainly do. The issue is whether they can parse up the uses of an > e-book > that an individual has already paid for and claim that each > potential use of > it is an intellectual property right. > > The Authors Guild is upset because Amazon added a text-to-speech > function to > its Kindle 2, which means that downloaded e-books can be read aloud. > Initially, Amazon did not plan to include the ability to disable that > function; the company only backed down when the Authors Guild raised a > stink. But the fact is that Amazon was initially legally correct to > believe > that there was no inherent intellectual property right involved. The > reading > aloud of text that one has purchased, in private, is not a copyright > violation but a fair use. To argue otherwise is to argue that > parents who > read bedtime stories to their kids, or for that matter blind people > who have > a print textbook read aloud to them by a reader (human or machine), > are > violating copyright law. This is ridiculous and every copyright > lawyer worth > his or her salt knows it; even the Authors Guild is now backing down > from > it, arguing instead that the terms of their contracts prohibit this > use. It > makes absolutely no difference whether the reading aloud is done by > a human > or a machine, as long as there is no "public performance" or > derivative work > created. > > The Authors Guild wants what you have suggested--a registration > system for > people with disabilities, who would then be allowed to unlock the > text-to-speech function. But more than just blind people are > affected here, > and many of them have disabilities that are not tied to a specific > organic > cause and can't be medically diagnosed. Besides, who would > administer this > system? Amazon? The Authors Guild? And more to the point, why should > disabled readers have to register to read a book that we have paid > good > money for? The Guild's position is tantamount to saying, "You can > buy our > e-books but you can't read them without clearance from us." It is > unacceptable and discriminatory. > > Bottom line; Everyone who pays good money for an e-book--which is not > inherently either a visual or audio work and could conceivably be > converted > into even more formats, including Braille--should be able to read it > in > whatever form works best for them. The authors have a chance here to > get > money from the disability community--a revenue stream they've never > had > before since right now we get a lot of our reading material from > free or > subscription services like NLS or Bookshare. But our money > apparently isn't > good enough for them. Sure, they're motivated not by keeping us out > but by > trying to keep out the sighted, in order to make sure that the sighted > either pay a surcharge for text-to-speech or buy the much more > expensive > audio book version. But that's just greed, not an intellectual > property > dispute. And disabled people who have legitimate reading problems > but can't > "prove" them to the satisfaction of the Authors Guild will also have > to pay > that surcharge. This is wrong on many levels and it's lousy business > too. I > hope that in light of all this you will consider supporting our > action. > > Library services for the blind and others have their place, but the > advent > of the e-book means that we no longer have to be locked into those > systems > and potentially will have access to a much broader array of literary > content. This has been the dream of the blind and others with print > disabilities for generations. We are not going to let a knee-jerk, > poorly > thought out reaction from some authors organization take that dream > away. > > Chris > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw- > bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of E.J. Zufelt > Sent: Saturday, March 28, 2009 5:01 AM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Informational Picketing Against Authors Guild > inNewYork City > > Good morning, > > My concern with this action is whether or not the opinion expressed is > representative of NFB membership. I for one believe that Amazon is > well within their reasonable right to block this functionality from > titles on their site to perserve the authors rights to their > intellectual property. > > Perhaps a better approach would be for Amazon to be required to make > an unlocked version of the texts available to individuals who register > as text impaired. Understandably this method would have several > problems that would have to be negotiated between all concerned > parties. > > Just my two cents, > Everett > > > On 28-Mar-09, at 4:36 AM, wrote: > >> If the legislative alert system previously discussed on this list >> hade been implemented members from all over the country could >> respond with emails or faxes to the Authors Guild to address this >> issue. This would be much more effective then to expect Federations >> spending hundreds of dollars on plain fare and hotel accommodations >> for this cause. While the information definitely needs to be >> provided there are much more effective ways for this to be done. >> Charles L. Krugman, M.S.W., ParalegalPresident, >> NFB of California Central Valley Chapter >> 1237 P Street >> Fresno ca 93721 >> 559-266-9237 >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Andrews" >> >> To: >> Sent: Friday, March 27, 2009 1:40 PM >> Subject: [blindlaw] Informational Picketing Against Authors Guild in >> NewYork City >> >> >> >>> From Chris Danielson: >> >> Dear Fellow Federationists: >> >> As you may already know, Amazon, Inc. released the newest version of >> its >> >> e-book reader, the Kindle, on February 9 of this year. The Kindle 2 >> >> includes a feature that allows e-books downloaded to it to be read >> aloud. >> >> The Authors Guild has objected to this feature because it believes >> these >> >> e-books are licensed only for visual display, and under pressure >> from the >> >> Guild, Amazon has decided to allow authors and publishers to decide >> which >> >> books can be read aloud by this device. Naturally, this is a blow >> to blind >> >> people and others with print disabilities who can benefit from the >> >> text-to-speech feature and who would love to be able to purchase >> books and >> >> start reading them immediately for the first time in history. For >> this >> >> reason the National Federation of the Blind has joined with other >> >> organizations representing people who cannot use print effectively >> to fight >> >> the Authors Guild. >> >> We plan to kick off our public education campaign to increase public >> >> pressure on the Authors Guild to reverse its stance with an >> informational >> >> protest in front of the Guild's headquarters in New York City. This >> picket >> >> will take place on Tuesday, April 7, from noon until 2:00 p.m. I am >> writing >> >> to you in hopes that you can organize members to come to this >> protest. A >> >> number of Federationists from Maryland are coming and we expect >> >> participation from other organizations in the coalition, but it >> would be >> >> very helpful if those of you with easy access to New York City would >> help us >> >> by providing more picketers. It is extremely important that we >> make a >> >> strong impression on the Authors Guild and the media so that our >> message >> >> will be heard. >> >> In the next few days you will receive more communications with >> additional >> >> logistical details, as well as more information about our position >> and >> >> suggestions on how to respond to questions from the media. In the >> meantime, >> >> if you have additional questions, please do not hesitate to contact >> me. As >> >> soon as you have an idea of how many people may be able to come to >> this >> >> event, please provide that information to John Paré by calling >> 410-659-9314, >> >> ext. 2227, or by e-mailing jpare at nfb.org. Thank you for your >> assistance in >> >> this important matter. >> >> Sincerely: >> >> Chris Danielsen >> >> Christopher S. Danielsen >> >> Director of Public Relations >> >> NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND >> >> >> David Andrews and white cane Harry. >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob > al.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/everett%40zufelt.c > a > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol > . > com > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature > database 3971 (20090328) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature > database 3972 (20090328) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/everett%40zufelt.c a _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3972 (20090328) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3972 (20090328) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Sun Mar 29 05:38:40 2009 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2009 22:38:40 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Informational Picketing Against Authors GuildinNewYork City In-Reply-To: References: <94D47A96FA004126B3FFB96F0B9C6F95@spike><4D5D1503-3D66-471B-A599-6FEEF84E6840@zufelt.ca><50AF7F0597184596939D794676C898AF@Scorpio13> Message-ID: The authors Guild or any other such guild is not exempt from complying with the ADA and other legislation to make their products or services accessible to people with disabilities. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "E.J. Zufelt" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Saturday, March 28, 2009 5:25 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Informational Picketing Against Authors GuildinNewYork City Good morning, Interesting, I think that the word that persuades me here is performance. The argument then, as I understand it, is that the reading aloud, by a person or machine, of a work differs from an audio book that is commercially produced that would be considered a performance of the work. I think that I can accept that to be a reasonable distinction between the two. So, even if the ability to have a work read aloud impacts negatively on an authors return on investment, which it may not, it is as a result of evolving technology and is something that the authoring industry will need to deal with in the same manner as other industries must deal with the potential negative economic impact of evolving technology. Thanks for your thorough explanation, Everett On 28-Mar-09, at 8:16 AM, Chris Danielsen wrote: > Hi Everett, > > First, let me say that not only are Federation members supportive of this > action, but we have in fact reached out to other disability organizations > representing individuals with spinal cord injuries, dyslexia and other > learning disabilities, and other print disabilities and they are all in > agreement with this position. Second, the issue here is not whether > authors > have the right to control their intellectual property, which they most > certainly do. The issue is whether they can parse up the uses of an > e-book > that an individual has already paid for and claim that each potential use > of > it is an intellectual property right. > > The Authors Guild is upset because Amazon added a text-to-speech function > to > its Kindle 2, which means that downloaded e-books can be read aloud. > Initially, Amazon did not plan to include the ability to disable that > function; the company only backed down when the Authors Guild raised a > stink. But the fact is that Amazon was initially legally correct to > believe > that there was no inherent intellectual property right involved. The > reading > aloud of text that one has purchased, in private, is not a copyright > violation but a fair use. To argue otherwise is to argue that parents who > read bedtime stories to their kids, or for that matter blind people who > have > a print textbook read aloud to them by a reader (human or machine), are > violating copyright law. This is ridiculous and every copyright lawyer > worth > his or her salt knows it; even the Authors Guild is now backing down from > it, arguing instead that the terms of their contracts prohibit this use. > It > makes absolutely no difference whether the reading aloud is done by a > human > or a machine, as long as there is no "public performance" or derivative > work > created. > > The Authors Guild wants what you have suggested--a registration system > for > people with disabilities, who would then be allowed to unlock the > text-to-speech function. But more than just blind people are affected > here, > and many of them have disabilities that are not tied to a specific > organic > cause and can't be medically diagnosed. Besides, who would administer > this > system? Amazon? The Authors Guild? And more to the point, why should > disabled readers have to register to read a book that we have paid good > money for? The Guild's position is tantamount to saying, "You can buy our > e-books but you can't read them without clearance from us." It is > unacceptable and discriminatory. > > Bottom line; Everyone who pays good money for an e-book--which is not > inherently either a visual or audio work and could conceivably be > converted > into even more formats, including Braille--should be able to read it in > whatever form works best for them. The authors have a chance here to get > money from the disability community--a revenue stream they've never had > before since right now we get a lot of our reading material from free or > subscription services like NLS or Bookshare. But our money apparently > isn't > good enough for them. Sure, they're motivated not by keeping us out but > by > trying to keep out the sighted, in order to make sure that the sighted > either pay a surcharge for text-to-speech or buy the much more expensive > audio book version. But that's just greed, not an intellectual property > dispute. And disabled people who have legitimate reading problems but > can't > "prove" them to the satisfaction of the Authors Guild will also have to > pay > that surcharge. This is wrong on many levels and it's lousy business too. > I > hope that in light of all this you will consider supporting our action. > > Library services for the blind and others have their place, but the > advent > of the e-book means that we no longer have to be locked into those > systems > and potentially will have access to a much broader array of literary > content. This has been the dream of the blind and others with print > disabilities for generations. We are not going to let a knee-jerk, poorly > thought out reaction from some authors organization take that dream away. > > Chris > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw- bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of E.J. Zufelt > Sent: Saturday, March 28, 2009 5:01 AM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Informational Picketing Against Authors Guild > inNewYork City > > Good morning, > > My concern with this action is whether or not the opinion expressed is > representative of NFB membership. I for one believe that Amazon is > well within their reasonable right to block this functionality from > titles on their site to perserve the authors rights to their > intellectual property. > > Perhaps a better approach would be for Amazon to be required to make > an unlocked version of the texts available to individuals who register > as text impaired. Understandably this method would have several > problems that would have to be negotiated between all concerned parties. > > Just my two cents, > Everett > > > On 28-Mar-09, at 4:36 AM, wrote: > >> If the legislative alert system previously discussed on this list >> hade been implemented members from all over the country could >> respond with emails or faxes to the Authors Guild to address this >> issue. This would be much more effective then to expect Federations >> spending hundreds of dollars on plain fare and hotel accommodations >> for this cause. While the information definitely needs to be >> provided there are much more effective ways for this to be done. >> Charles L. Krugman, M.S.W., ParalegalPresident, >> NFB of California Central Valley Chapter >> 1237 P Street >> Fresno ca 93721 >> 559-266-9237 >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Andrews" >> To: >> Sent: Friday, March 27, 2009 1:40 PM >> Subject: [blindlaw] Informational Picketing Against Authors Guild in >> NewYork City >> >> >> >>> From Chris Danielson: >> >> Dear Fellow Federationists: >> >> As you may already know, Amazon, Inc. released the newest version of >> its >> >> e-book reader, the Kindle, on February 9 of this year. The Kindle 2 >> >> includes a feature that allows e-books downloaded to it to be read >> aloud. >> >> The Authors Guild has objected to this feature because it believes >> these >> >> e-books are licensed only for visual display, and under pressure >> from the >> >> Guild, Amazon has decided to allow authors and publishers to decide >> which >> >> books can be read aloud by this device. Naturally, this is a blow >> to blind >> >> people and others with print disabilities who can benefit from the >> >> text-to-speech feature and who would love to be able to purchase >> books and >> >> start reading them immediately for the first time in history. For >> this >> >> reason the National Federation of the Blind has joined with other >> >> organizations representing people who cannot use print effectively >> to fight >> >> the Authors Guild. >> >> We plan to kick off our public education campaign to increase public >> >> pressure on the Authors Guild to reverse its stance with an >> informational >> >> protest in front of the Guild's headquarters in New York City. This >> picket >> >> will take place on Tuesday, April 7, from noon until 2:00 p.m. I am >> writing >> >> to you in hopes that you can organize members to come to this >> protest. A >> >> number of Federationists from Maryland are coming and we expect >> >> participation from other organizations in the coalition, but it >> would be >> >> very helpful if those of you with easy access to New York City would >> help us >> >> by providing more picketers. It is extremely important that we make a >> >> strong impression on the Authors Guild and the media so that our >> message >> >> will be heard. >> >> In the next few days you will receive more communications with >> additional >> >> logistical details, as well as more information about our position and >> >> suggestions on how to respond to questions from the media. In the >> meantime, >> >> if you have additional questions, please do not hesitate to contact >> me. As >> >> soon as you have an idea of how many people may be able to come to >> this >> >> event, please provide that information to John Paré by calling >> 410-659-9314, >> >> ext. 2227, or by e-mailing jpare at nfb.org. Thank you for your >> assistance in >> >> this important matter. >> >> Sincerely: >> >> Chris Danielsen >> >> Christopher S. Danielsen >> >> Director of Public Relations >> >> NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND >> >> >> David Andrews and white cane Harry. >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob > al.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/everett%40zufelt.c > a > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol . > com > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature > database 3971 (20090328) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature > database 3972 (20090328) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/everett%40zufelt.ca _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net From cdanielsen8 at aol.com Sun Mar 29 21:21:42 2009 From: cdanielsen8 at aol.com (Chris Danielsen) Date: Sun, 29 Mar 2009 17:21:42 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Informational Picketing Against Authors Guild in NewYork City In-Reply-To: <587382.84772.qm@web53807.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <587382.84772.qm@web53807.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: John, Thanks so much for your support! Chris -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of John Sheehan Sent: Saturday, March 28, 2009 3:34 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List; david.andrews at nfbnet.org Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Informational Picketing Against Authors Guild in NewYork City The Xavier Society for the Blind strongly supports this effort - we'll put the note (and additional information as it becomes available) on our website and we will encourage people to show up. I will definitely be there.   Fr. John R. Sheehan, SJ Chairman Xavier Society for the Blind 154 East 23rd St New York, NY 10010 Office 212 473-7800 Help us raise money for the Xavier Society for the Blind just by searching the Internet or shopping online with GoodSearch - www.goodsearch.com - powered by Yahoo! Free for you - and money for us! Thank you. ________________________________ From: David Andrews To: david.andrews at nfbnet.org Sent: Friday, March 27, 2009 4:40:37 PM Subject: [blindlaw] Informational Picketing Against Authors Guild in New York City >From Chris Danielson: Dear Fellow Federationists: As you may already know, Amazon, Inc. released the newest version of its e-book reader, the Kindle, on February 9 of this year.  The Kindle 2 includes a feature that allows e-books downloaded to it to be read aloud. The Authors Guild has objected to this feature because it believes these e-books are licensed only for visual display, and under pressure from the Guild, Amazon has decided to allow authors and publishers to decide which books can be read aloud by this device.  Naturally, this is a blow to blind people and others with print disabilities who can benefit from the text-to-speech feature and who would love to be able to purchase books and start reading them immediately for the first time in history.  For this reason the National Federation of the Blind has joined with other organizations representing people who cannot use print effectively to fight the Authors Guild. We plan to kick off our public education campaign to increase public pressure on the Authors Guild to reverse its stance with an informational protest in front of the Guild’s headquarters in New York City.  This picket will take place on Tuesday, April 7, from noon until 2:00 p.m.  I am writing to you in hopes that you can organize members to come to this protest.  A number of Federationists from Maryland are coming and we expect participation from other organizations in the coalition, but it would be very helpful if those of you with easy access to New York City would help us by providing more picketers.  It is extremely important that we make a strong impression on the Authors Guild and the media so that our message will be heard. In the next few days you will receive more communications with additional logistical details, as well as more information about our position and suggestions on how to respond to questions from the media.  In the meantime, if you have additional questions, please do not hesitate to contact me.  As soon as you have an idea of how many people may be able to come to this event, please provide that information to John Paré by calling 410-659-9314, ext. 2227, or by e-mailing jpare at nfb.org.  Thank you for your assistance in this important matter. Sincerely: Chris Danielsen Christopher S. Danielsen Director of Public Relations NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND David Andrews and white cane Harry. _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/johnrsheehan%40yah oo.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3973 (20090329) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From ukekearuaro at valtdnet.com Sun Mar 29 22:58:35 2009 From: ukekearuaro at valtdnet.com (Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc.) Date: Sun, 29 Mar 2009 16:58:35 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] Court of Appeals affirms currency ruling References: <4313AD4429551F4595A8A414A660C75F12EFF12A@wdcrobe2m05.ed.gov> Message-ID: <4A87133D67BD435A843E1680109F4E8C@valtd> Any more word on the implementation of the Court of Appeals reaffirmation of the currency identification ruling? Sincerely, Olusegun Denver, Colorado From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Mon Mar 30 03:23:33 2009 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Sun, 29 Mar 2009 20:23:33 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Court of Appeals affirms currency ruling In-Reply-To: <4A87133D67BD435A843E1680109F4E8C@valtd> References: <4313AD4429551F4595A8A414A660C75F12EFF12A@wdcrobe2m05.ed.gov> <4A87133D67BD435A843E1680109F4E8C@valtd> Message-ID: I remember that it was referred back to the Department of the Treasury to explore methods of implementations when they decided not to appeal the ruling. I don't recall a specific time frame however. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc." To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Sunday, March 29, 2009 3:58 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Court of Appeals affirms currency ruling > Any more word on the implementation of the Court of Appeals reaffirmation > of the currency identification ruling? > > Sincerely, > Olusegun > Denver, Colorado > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net From slabarre at labarrelaw.com Mon Mar 30 16:16:51 2009 From: slabarre at labarrelaw.com (Scott C. LaBarre) Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2009 10:16:51 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] Fw: Reading Rights Coalition Urges Authors to Allow Everyone Access to E-books Message-ID: <40DB1C3BA7A1407E83E3E7A85D0E24FE@labarre> ----- Original Message ----- From: Freeh, Jessica To: Alpidio Rolon ; Amy Buresh ; Anil Lewis ; Art Schreiber ; Beth Rival ; Bob Kresmer ; Carl Jacobsen ; Cathy Jackson ; Charlene Smyth ; Christine G. Hall ; Daniel Burke ; David Ticchi ; Don Galloway ; Donna Wood ; Elsie Lamp ; Frank Lee ; Franklin Shiner ; Fred Schroeder ; Fred Wurtzel ; Gary Ray ; Gary Wunder ; J.W. Smith ; James Antonacci ; James Broadnax ; Jennelle Bichler ; Jennifer Dunnam ; Jerree Harris ; Joe Ruffalo ; John Batron ; John Fritz ; Joyce Scanlan ; Kathy Davis ; Ken Rollman ; Kevan Worley ; Marie Johnson ; Mary Willows ; Melissa Riccobono ; Michael Barber ; Michael Freeman ; Nani Fife ; Pam Allen ; Parnell Diggs ; Patti Chang ; Richard Bennett ; Richard Gaffney ; Ron Brown ; Ron Gardner ; Sam Gleese ; Scott LaBarre ; Selena Sundling-Crawford ; Steven Priddle ; Terri Rupp ; Tommy Craig Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 7:09 AM Subject: Reading Rights Coalition Urges Authors to Allow Everyone Access to E-books FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE CONTACT: Chris Danielsen Director of Public Relations National Federation of the Blind (410) 659-9314, ext. 2330 (410) 262-1281 (Cell) cdanielsen at nfb.org Reading Rights Coalition Urges Authors to Allow Everyone Access to E-books Informational Protest to be Held at Authors Guild Headquarters New York City (March 30, 2009): The Reading Rights Coalition, which represents people who cannot read print, will protest the threatened removal of the text-to-speech function from e-books for the Amazon Kindle 2 outside the Authors Guild headquarters in New York City at 31 East 32nd Street on April 7, 2009, from noon to 2:00 p.m. The coalition includes the blind, people with dyslexia, people with learning or processing issues, seniors losing vision, people with spinal cord injuries, people recovering from strokes, and many others for whom the addition of text-to-speech on the Kindle 2 promised for the first time easy, mainstream access to over 245,000 books. When Amazon released the Kindle 2 electronic book reader on February 9, 2009, the company announced that the device would be able to read e-books aloud using text-to-speech technology. Under pressure from the Authors Guild, Amazon has announced that it will give authors and publishers the ability to disable the text-to-speech function on any or all of their e-books available for the Kindle 2. Dr. Marc Maurer, President of the National Federation of the Blind, said: "The blind and print-disabled have for years utilized text-to-speech technology to read and access information. As technology advances and more books move from hard-copy print to electronic formats, people with print disabilities have for the first time in history the opportunity to enjoy access to books on an equal basis with those who can read print. Authors and publishers who elect to disable text-to-speech for their e-books on the Kindle 2 prevent people who are blind or have other print disabilities from reading these e-books. This is blatant discrimination and we will not tolerate it." Mike Shuttic, president of the Association on Higher Education and Disability (AHEAD), said: "AHEAD envisions educational and societal environments that value disability and embody equality of opportunity. This vision of AHEAD is directly aligned with the efforts of this coalition. Although much rhetoric is made about potential obstacles and problems that exist, the basic goal is clear and simple--access for everyone. And why create something that prevents it?" Mitch Pomerantz, president of the American Council of the Blind, said: "Removing the text-to-speech features closes the door on an innovative technological solution that would make regular print books available to tens of thousands of individuals who are blind or visually impaired." Andrew Imparato, President and Chief Executive Officer for the American Association of People with Disabilities (AAPD), said: "It is outrageous when a technology device shuts out people with all kinds of disabilities. AAPD works to remove barriers to accessibility and usability in technology, and we don't expect to see people with disabilities singled out by having to pay more for access. New technologies, such as electronic books, should be available to everyone regardless of disability." Paul Schroeder, vice president of programs and policy for the American Foundation for the Blind, said: "Those of us with print disabilities have long dreamed of a world in which books and media are available to us at the same time as everyone else. The Kindle 2 offers that possibility for the first time. We hope publishers and authors come to see that text-to-speech is simply an alternative means of access to print." Dr. Peter Blanck, chairman and university professor at Burton Blatt Institute at Syracuse University, said: "As electronic books become the norm, denying universal access will result in more and more people with disabilities being left out of education, employment, and the societal conversation. We will all suffer from the absence of their participation and contribution to the debates that occupy us as a society." George Kerscher of the Digital Accessible Information System (DAISY) Consortium, said: "The DAISY Consortium envisions a world where people with print disabilities have equal access to information and knowledge, without delay or additional expense. Authors and publishers surely must share this vision. Now that the issue of human rights has been explained, and the opportunity for larger sales are known, I urge the Authors Guild to reverse their position on text-to-speech and join us in actively encouraging all publishers and reading technology developers to open the world of reading to everybody. Authors, join us on the picket line." Steve Jacobs, president of IDEAL Group Inc., said, "Not only is text-to-speech important to people who are blind, it is critical in providing quality educations to millions of young people who rely on text-to-speech to learn effectively. This includes students with autism, learning disabilities, mobility disabilities, and cognitive disabilities that impact their ability to acquire information with their eyes only. I remain hopeful that the talented members of the Authors Guild come to understand the potential negative impact of disabling the text-to-speech function on their e-books and reconsider their position." Cynthia D. Waddell, executive director of the International Center for Disability Resources on the Internet (ICDRI), said: "The mission of ICDRI supports the removal of barriers in electronic and information technology and the promotion of equal access. ICDRI welcomes the text-to-speech functionality being offered by the Kindle 2 since it increases mainstream access to books for the first time in history. We question why the Authors Guild demands that it be turned it off since many more books would be sold if text-to-speech was turned back on. Not only does this feature benefit persons with disabilities, but it also helps persons for whom English is not their native language. In an increasingly mobile society, flexibility in access to content improves the quality of life for everyone." James Love, director of Knowledge Ecology International, said: "Knowing full well that not everyone can see, the Authors Guild wants the right to be seen, but not heard. By bullying Amazon to change the technology of Kindle 2, the Authors Guild will either deny access to people who are disabled, or make them pay more. By attacking disabled persons in this way, the Authors Guild is attacking everyone who would otherwise benefit from the contributions this community has the potential to offer." James H. Wendorf, executive director for the National Center for Learning Disabilities, said: "Access to the written word is the cornerstone of education and democracy. New technologies must serve individuals with disabilities, not impede them. Our homes, schools and ultimately our economy rely on support for the future, not discriminating practices and beliefs from the past." While the Kindle 2 is not currently accessible to blind users, Amazon recently announced on its Kindle 2 blog that it is currently at work on making the device's navigational features accessible to the blind. The coalition includes: American Association of People with Disabilities, American Council of the Blind, American Foundation for the Blind, Association on Higher Education and Disability, Bazelon Center for Mental Health Law, Burton Blatt Institute, Digital Accessible Information System (DAISY) Consortium, Disability Rights Education and Defense Fund (DREDF), IDEAL Group, Inc., International Center for Disability Resources on the Internet, International Dyslexia Association, International Dyslexia Association--New York Branch, Knowledge Ecology International, Learning Disabilities Association of America, National Center for Learning Disabilities, National Disability Rights Network, National Federation of the Blind, NISH, and the National Spinal Cord Injury Association. In addition to the April 7 New York City protest, the coalition will participate in the Los Angeles Times Festival of Books on April 25-26. ### From DFrye at nfb.org Mon Mar 30 16:19:56 2009 From: DFrye at nfb.org (Frye, Dan) Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2009 12:19:56 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] tenBroek Law Symposium--Still Time to Register Message-ID: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6B953E11@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local> List Colleagues: Lou Ann Blake, the tenBroek Law Symposium coordinator on the NFB national staff, has asked that I post this reminder flyer once again to members of the blind and visually impaired legal community subscribed to this list. In addition to everything Lou Ann says in the following announcement (which is also attached as a Word Document for your convenience), I am reasonably confident that some accommodations here at the National Center for the Blind can be made available for our members and friends who would come except for the additional expense associated with lodging. If free sleeping accommodations here at the National Center for the Blind would make your participation more likely, please contact Lou Ann Blake to discuss arrangements. As stated in the announcement, other financial concessions associated with the tenBroek Law Symposium can also be made in certain circumstances. Lou Ann has assembled a high-caliber array of program presenters, and we want to make certain that people can benefit from this important symposium. See the announcement pasted below and attached to this message for further information: There's Still Time to Register and Reserve Your Room at the Holiday Inn Inner Harbor For the 2009 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium New Perspectives on Disability Law: Advancing the Right to Live in the World Be sure to let your colleagues and friends know that the deadline to register for this exciting and powerful symposium is April 10, 2009, and that the cut-off date for reserving rooms at the Holiday Inn Inner Harbor has been extended to April 3, 2009. Don't miss this opportunity to voice your concerns to Kareem Dale, Special Assistant to President Obama for Disability Policy, at the 2009 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium on April 17th at the National Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute in Baltimore, Maryland. Mr. Dale will speak on the Obama administration's policies on disability issues for approximately thirty minutes followed by a forty-five minute question and answer session. In addition to Mr. Dale, the presenters for the 2009 symposium are: * Maura Healey, Assistant Attorney General and Chief, Office of Civil Rights, Commonwealth of Massachusetts; * Amy Robertson and Timothy Fox, Principals, Fox & Robertson, P.C.; * Gerard Quinn, Professor of Law, National University of Ireland, Galway; * Katherine Guernsey, International Lawyer and Adjunct Professor, American University School of International Service; * Samuel Bagenstos, Visiting Professor of Law, UCLA Law School; * Christine Griffin, Commissioner, United States Equal Employment Opportunity Commission; and * Peter Blanck, University Professor and Chairman, Burton Blatt Institute at Syracuse University. Ari Ne'eman, founding president of the Autistic Self-Advocacy Network, will give the luncheon keynote address. To view the full agenda, register online, or download the registration form to register by mail or fax, visit the symposium Web page at http://www.nfb.org/nfb/Law_Symposium.asp. Hotel information may also be found on the symposium Web page. The deadline to make room reservations at the Holiday Inn Inner Harbor has been extended to 3:00 pm, April 3, 2009. The registration fee is $150; students may register for $20. A limited number of scholarships to cover the registration fee will be available to individuals with demonstrated financial need. Don't miss this exciting opportunity to interact with leading scholars, government officials, and advocates and to make your voice heard. The deadline to register is April 10, 2009. Symposium attendees will be provided documentation for CLE credit. Individuals will be responsible for filing the application for CLE credit with their state board. The 2009 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium is sponsored by the National Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute, the American Bar Association Commission on Mental and Physical Disability Law, the Maryland Department of Disability, the Texas Journal on Civil Liberties and Civil Rights, and the Legal Times. For additional information about the symposium, contact: Lou Ann Blake, Law Symposium Coordinator National Federation of the Blind Telephone: (410) 659-9314, ext. 2221 E-mail: lblake at nfb.org I look forward to seeing many of you on April 17, 2009, for the second annual tenBroek Law Symposium. With Kind Regards, *********************** Daniel B. Frye, J.D. Associate Editor The Braille Monitor National Federation of the Blind Office of the President 1800 Johnson Street Baltimore, Maryland 21230 Telephone: (410) 659-9314 Ext. 2208 Mobile: (410) 241-7006 Fax: (410) 685-5653 Email: DFrye at nfb.org Web Address: www.nfb.org "Voice of the Nation's Blind" -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 3-30 2009 law sym promo e-mail.doc Type: application/msword Size: 29184 bytes Desc: 3-30 2009 law sym promo e-mail.doc URL: From mikefry79 at gmail.com Mon Mar 30 17:21:21 2009 From: mikefry79 at gmail.com (Michael Fry) Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2009 10:21:21 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Fw: Reading Rights Coalition Urges Authors to Allow Everyone Access to E-books In-Reply-To: <40DB1C3BA7A1407E83E3E7A85D0E24FE@labarre> References: <40DB1C3BA7A1407E83E3E7A85D0E24FE@labarre> Message-ID: <8c58e54a0903301021m44094b44q5bcb7e72ab209a59@mail.gmail.com> It is awesome that so many organizations are coalescing around such a noble and worthy cause. The Guilds position is immoral since it is infringes on human rights and dignity because it exploits, for profit, a vulnerable minority of the population. Requiring the disabled to 'register' - like some kind of inferior animal - in order to use new, free, and innovative text-to-speech technology places an unnecessary obstacle in path of people with disablities. This obstacle is desgined solely to exploit money from people without the time or inclination or, who are too embarrassed to register, as a text disabled individuals. They are attempting to bully extra profits out of people with disabilities. The Guild, comprised of enlightened and educated individuals, should be ashamed since there is no explanation other than immoral greed for their position. On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 9:16 AM, Scott C. LaBarre wrote: > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Freeh, Jessica > To: Alpidio Rolon ; Amy Buresh ; Anil Lewis ; Art Schreiber ; Beth Rival ; > Bob Kresmer ; Carl Jacobsen ; Cathy Jackson ; Charlene Smyth ; Christine G. > Hall ; Daniel Burke ; David Ticchi ; Don Galloway ; Donna Wood ; Elsie Lamp > ; Frank Lee ; Franklin Shiner ; Fred Schroeder ; Fred Wurtzel ; Gary Ray ; > Gary Wunder ; J.W. Smith ; James Antonacci ; James Broadnax ; Jennelle > Bichler ; Jennifer Dunnam ; Jerree Harris ; Joe Ruffalo ; John Batron ; John > Fritz ; Joyce Scanlan ; Kathy Davis ; Ken Rollman ; Kevan Worley ; Marie > Johnson ; Mary Willows ; Melissa Riccobono ; Michael Barber ; Michael > Freeman ; Nani Fife ; Pam Allen ; Parnell Diggs ; Patti Chang ; Richard > Bennett ; Richard Gaffney ; Ron Brown ; Ron Gardner ; Sam Gleese ; Scott > LaBarre ; Selena Sundling-Crawford ; Steven Priddle ; Terri Rupp ; Tommy > Craig > Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 7:09 AM > Subject: Reading Rights Coalition Urges Authors to Allow Everyone Access to > E-books > > > FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE > > > CONTACT: > > Chris Danielsen > > Director of Public Relations > > National Federation of the Blind > > (410) 659-9314, ext. 2330 > > (410) 262-1281 (Cell) > cdanielsen at nfb.org > > > > Reading Rights Coalition Urges Authors to Allow > Everyone Access to E-books > > > > Informational Protest to be Held at Authors Guild Headquarters > > > > New York City (March 30, 2009): The Reading Rights Coalition, which > represents people who cannot read print, will protest the threatened removal > of the text-to-speech function from e-books for the Amazon Kindle 2 outside > the Authors Guild headquarters in New York City at 31 East 32nd Street on > April 7, 2009, from noon to 2:00 p.m. The coalition includes the blind, > people with dyslexia, people with learning or processing issues, seniors > losing vision, people with spinal cord injuries, people recovering from > strokes, and many others for whom the addition of text-to-speech on the > Kindle 2 promised for the first time easy, mainstream access to over 245,000 > books. > > > > When Amazon released the Kindle 2 electronic book reader on February 9, > 2009, the company announced that the device would be able to read e-books > aloud using text-to-speech technology. Under pressure from the Authors > Guild, Amazon has announced that it will give authors and publishers the > ability to disable the text-to-speech function on any or all of their > e-books available for the Kindle 2. > > > > Dr. Marc Maurer, President of the National Federation of the Blind, said: > "The blind and print-disabled have for years utilized text-to-speech > technology to read and access information. As technology advances and more > books move from hard-copy print to electronic formats, people with print > disabilities have for the first time in history the opportunity to enjoy > access to books on an equal basis with those who can read print. Authors > and publishers who elect to disable text-to-speech for their e-books on the > Kindle 2 prevent people who are blind or have > > other print disabilities from reading these e-books. This is blatant > discrimination and we will not tolerate it." > > > > Mike Shuttic, president of the Association on Higher Education and > Disability (AHEAD), said: "AHEAD envisions educational and societal > environments that value disability and embody equality of opportunity. This > vision of AHEAD is directly aligned with the efforts of this coalition. > Although much rhetoric is made about potential obstacles and problems that > exist, the basic goal is clear and simple--access for everyone. And why > create something that prevents it?" > > > > Mitch Pomerantz, president of the American Council of the Blind, said: > "Removing the text-to-speech features closes the door on an innovative > technological solution that would make regular print books available to tens > of thousands of individuals who are blind or visually impaired." > > > > Andrew Imparato, President and Chief Executive Officer for the American > Association of People with Disabilities (AAPD), said: "It is outrageous when > a technology device shuts out people with all kinds of disabilities. AAPD > works to remove barriers to accessibility and usability in technology, and > we don't expect to see people with disabilities singled out by having to pay > more for access. New technologies, such as electronic books, should be > available to everyone regardless of disability." > > Paul Schroeder, vice president of programs and policy for the American > Foundation for the Blind, said: "Those of us with print disabilities have > long dreamed of a world in which books and media are available to us at the > same time as everyone else. The Kindle 2 offers that possibility for the > first time. We hope publishers and authors come to see that text-to-speech > is simply an alternative means of access to print." > > Dr. Peter Blanck, chairman and university professor at Burton Blatt > Institute at Syracuse University, said: "As electronic books become the > norm, denying universal access will result in more and more people with > disabilities being left out of education, employment, and the societal > conversation. We will all suffer from the absence of their participation > and contribution to the debates that occupy us as a society." > > > > George Kerscher of the Digital Accessible Information System (DAISY) > Consortium, said: "The DAISY Consortium envisions a world where people with > print disabilities have equal access to information and knowledge, without > delay or additional expense. Authors and publishers surely must share this > vision. Now that the issue of human rights has been explained, and the > opportunity for larger sales are known, I urge the Authors Guild to reverse > their position on text-to-speech and join us in actively encouraging all > publishers and reading technology developers to open the world of reading to > everybody. Authors, join us on the picket line." > > > > > > Steve Jacobs, president of IDEAL Group Inc., said, "Not only is > text-to-speech important to people who are blind, it is critical in > providing quality educations to millions of young people who rely on > text-to-speech to learn effectively. This includes students with autism, > learning disabilities, mobility disabilities, and cognitive disabilities > that impact their ability to acquire information with their eyes only. I > remain hopeful that the talented members of the Authors Guild come to > understand the potential negative impact of disabling the text-to-speech > function on their e-books and reconsider their position." > > > > Cynthia D. Waddell, executive director of the International Center for > Disability Resources on the Internet (ICDRI), said: "The mission of ICDRI > supports the removal of barriers in electronic and information technology > and the promotion of equal access. ICDRI welcomes the text-to-speech > functionality being offered by the Kindle 2 since it increases mainstream > access to books for the first time in history. We question why the Authors > Guild demands that it be turned it off since many more books would be sold > if text-to-speech was turned back on. Not only > > does this feature benefit persons with disabilities, but it also helps > persons for whom English is not their native language. In an increasingly > mobile society, flexibility in access to content improves the quality of > life for everyone." > > > > James Love, director of Knowledge Ecology International, said: "Knowing > full well that not everyone can see, the Authors Guild wants the right to be > seen, but not heard. By bullying Amazon to change the technology of Kindle > 2, the Authors Guild will either deny access to people who are disabled, or > make them pay more. By attacking disabled persons in this way, the Authors > Guild is attacking everyone who would otherwise benefit from the > contributions this community has the potential to offer." > > > > James H. Wendorf, executive director for the National Center for Learning > Disabilities, said: "Access to the written word is the cornerstone of > education and democracy. New technologies must serve individuals with > disabilities, not impede them. Our homes, schools and ultimately our > economy rely on support for the future, not discriminating practices and > beliefs from the past." > > While the Kindle 2 is not currently accessible to blind users, Amazon > recently announced on its Kindle 2 blog that it is currently at work on > making the device's navigational features accessible to the blind. > > > > The coalition includes: American Association of People with Disabilities, > American Council of the Blind, American Foundation for the Blind, > Association on Higher Education and Disability, Bazelon Center for Mental > Health Law, Burton Blatt Institute, Digital Accessible Information System > (DAISY) Consortium, Disability Rights Education and Defense Fund (DREDF), > IDEAL Group, Inc., International Center for Disability Resources on the > Internet, International Dyslexia Association, International Dyslexia > Association--New York Branch, Knowledge Ecology International, Learning > Disabilities Association of America, National Center for Learning > Disabilities, National Disability Rights Network, National Federation of the > Blind, NISH, and the National Spinal Cord Injury Association. In addition > to the April 7 New York City protest, the coalition will participate in the > Los Angeles Times Festival of Books on April 25-26. > > > > ### > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mikefry79%40gmail.com > From fwlopez at comcast.net Mon Mar 30 17:36:27 2009 From: fwlopez at comcast.net (Fred Wright Lopez) Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2009 10:36:27 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] tenBroek Law Symposium--Still Time to Register In-Reply-To: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6B953E11@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local> References: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6B953E11@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local> Message-ID: I am an attorney member of the Blind Lawyers Association, although not an NFB member I first would like to thank you for the genrerous offer you have extended with regard to loggingassistance for the tenBroek Law Sympsium. Transportation costs are certaintly a disincentive to participation in this education conference. However, I am at a lost to understand why there was no effort to provide "Web Casting" of this very important legal training session. I reside in California and accordingly the length of time taken to travel to and from the conference site is also a consideration. I for one would very like to benefit from the tenbroek seminar but can not afford the time away from other pressing legal obligations. Web casting of the event would provide the opportunity for many of us to participate. Is there any possibility that the symposium can be web cast? Sincerely, Fred W. Lopez On Mar 30, 2009, at 9:19 AM, Frye, Dan wrote: > List Colleagues: > > Lou Ann Blake, the tenBroek Law Symposium coordinator on the NFB > national staff, has asked that I post this reminder flyer once again > to > members of the blind and visually impaired legal community > subscribed to > this list. In addition to everything Lou Ann says in the following > announcement (which is also attached as a Word Document for your > convenience), I am reasonably confident that some accommodations > here at > the National Center for the Blind can be made available for our > members > and friends who would come except for the additional expense > associated > with lodging. If free sleeping accommodations here at the National > Center for the Blind would make your participation more likely, please > contact Lou Ann Blake to discuss arrangements. As stated in the > announcement, other financial concessions associated with the tenBroek > Law Symposium can also be made in certain circumstances. Lou Ann has > assembled a high-caliber array of program presenters, and we want to > make certain that people can benefit from this important symposium. > See > the announcement pasted below and attached to this message for further > information: > > There's Still Time to Register and Reserve Your Room at the Holiday > Inn > Inner Harbor > > > > For the > > > > 2009 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium > > New Perspectives on Disability Law: Advancing the Right to Live in the > World > > > > > > Be sure to let your colleagues and friends know that the deadline to > register for this exciting and powerful symposium is April 10, 2009, > and > that the cut-off date for reserving rooms at the Holiday Inn Inner > Harbor has been extended to April 3, 2009. Don't miss this > opportunity > to voice your concerns to Kareem Dale, Special Assistant to President > Obama for Disability Policy, at the 2009 Jacobus tenBroek Disability > Law > Symposium on April 17th at the National Federation of the Blind > Jernigan > Institute in Baltimore, Maryland. Mr. Dale will speak on the Obama > administration's policies on disability issues for approximately > thirty > minutes followed by a forty-five minute question and answer > session. In > addition to Mr. Dale, the presenters for the 2009 symposium are: > > > > * Maura Healey, Assistant Attorney General and Chief, Office of > Civil Rights, Commonwealth of Massachusetts; > * Amy Robertson and Timothy Fox, Principals, Fox & Robertson, > P.C.; > * Gerard Quinn, Professor of Law, National University of Ireland, > Galway; > * Katherine Guernsey, International Lawyer and Adjunct Professor, > American University School of International Service; > * Samuel Bagenstos, Visiting Professor of Law, UCLA Law School; > * Christine Griffin, Commissioner, United States Equal Employment > Opportunity Commission; and > * Peter Blanck, University Professor and Chairman, Burton Blatt > Institute at Syracuse University. > > > > Ari Ne'eman, founding president of the Autistic Self-Advocacy Network, > will give the luncheon keynote address. > > > > To view the full agenda, register online, or download the registration > form to register by mail or fax, visit the symposium Web page at > http://www.nfb.org/nfb/Law_Symposium.asp. Hotel information may > also be > found on the symposium Web page. The deadline to make room > reservations > at the Holiday Inn Inner Harbor has been extended to 3:00 pm, April 3, > 2009. > > > > The registration fee is $150; students may register for $20. A > limited > number of scholarships to cover the registration fee will be available > to individuals with demonstrated financial need. Don't miss this > exciting opportunity to interact with leading scholars, government > officials, and advocates and to make your voice heard. The deadline > to > register is April 10, 2009. > > > > Symposium attendees will be provided documentation for CLE credit. > Individuals will be responsible for filing the application for CLE > credit with their state board. > > > > The 2009 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium is sponsored by the > National Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute, the American Bar > Association Commission on Mental and Physical Disability Law, the > Maryland Department of Disability, the Texas Journal on Civil > Liberties > and Civil Rights, and the Legal Times. > > > > For additional information about the symposium, contact: > > > > Lou Ann Blake, Law Symposium Coordinator > > National Federation of the Blind > > Telephone: (410) 659-9314, ext. 2221 > > E-mail: lblake at nfb.org > > > > I look forward to seeing many of you on April 17, 2009, for the second > annual tenBroek Law Symposium. > > > > With Kind Regards, > > > > > *********************** > Daniel B. Frye, J.D. > Associate Editor > The Braille Monitor > National Federation of the Blind > Office of the President > 1800 Johnson Street > Baltimore, Maryland 21230 > Telephone: (410) 659-9314 Ext. 2208 > Mobile: (410) 241-7006 > Fax: (410) 685-5653 > Email: DFrye at nfb.org > Web Address: www.nfb.org > "Voice of the Nation's Blind" > > <3-30 2009 law sym promo e- > mail.doc>_______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/fwlopez%40comcast.net From william.odonnell1 at yahoo.com Mon Mar 30 17:58:04 2009 From: william.odonnell1 at yahoo.com (William ODonnell) Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2009 10:58:04 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [blindlaw] NO MORE EXCUSES - THE BLIND HAVE RIGHTS TO "HEAR WHAT OTHERS SEE" CHALLENGE 09 Message-ID: <835440.21854.qm@web30901.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Stop looking for a free pass or a handout. So what; we are not equally able to utilize technology, Move on. You are not saying anything new. If this attitude persists, one might be better off sitting home collecting a check complaining that they are disabled. Stop collecting checks, go out and work. Prove yourselves to others this is the only way one will get ahead. People said that some things would never be possible, look at Barak Obama as a prime example. He proved himself, stood up for his beliefs, and was a success. He lives proof that anyone is able to do something that they truly dream and believe in. It would be great to see technology be accessible; however, the unfortunate reality is that the market for the blind is small in comparison to the large markets for the sighted and funding is based on greater need. Let us face a harsh reality that the fundamentals of the USA are based on majority and major capital as well and the sightless are in a minority. Remember that America is still grappling with the old fundamentals of our past. I say this because a person’s appearance supersedes there fundamental needs if you show one that you are blind, they prejudge you. This is due to a lack of education. Thus, the small man is undermined and ignored since the majority of the population is unaffected. We live in a society where people think and act for today, not tomarro. Everything is taken for granted and no one thinks of anyone else, they only think of their selfish greed. People do not realize what they have until it is gone and they see how they are affected. Also, remember that the ADA is just 19 years old. We are not as advanced as the rest of the world when it comes to access and technology. Hopefully, this will change in the coming decades. Most importantly, remember that attitudes and people do not respond to radical change. Change has to come slowly for people’s adjustment. Stop complaining about what you do not have and make change. Become an innovator instead of the hopeless blind person. Remember the movie blindness and why the NFB protested it because we are not beggars and not looking for handouts. Your conversation here is both a personal insult to a fellow blind person; most importantly, you, the writer. Change does not come over night and Rhome was not built in a day. --- On Sat, 3/28/09, kdb wrote: > From: kdb > Subject: [blindlaw] NO MORE EXCUSES - THE BLIND HAVE RIGHTS TO "HEAR WHAT OTHERS SEE" CHALLENGE 09 > To: "David Musial" , "Robert Wohler" , "Daniel Drabik" , blindlaw at nfbnet.org > Cc: "Dennis Blind Chef DiBona" , "Dennis Blind Chef DiBona" > Date: Saturday, March 28, 2009, 4:17 PM > DEAR EVERYONE WHO CARES! > re: Author's Guild/ Amazon Actions and Excuses.... > > So few seem to really understand, or rather choose instead > to ignore, the fact that a product  "VISUALLY" offered > to us as consumers does nothing for the large segment of our > population who are of low vision or blind. > Instead it effectively continues the long time practice > of  discrimination and essentially disallows the > visually disabled from active participation in what all > others who can see are offered. .. > The point remains easy to recognize but seemingly easier to > forget: for most visually disabled individuals, > their ears aretheir eyes. > So,  Please help others to understand this as you > will gain better insight into the issues after reading the > digest contained below following this message and challenge > which concerns an attempt to organize a protest > against  AMAZON.com & the Author's Guild.. > Please continue reading and decide if you will join this > challenge by signing and sending this on to gain support and > possibly convince an attorney or lawyer  group to  > take this human rights issue through those almighty > courthouse doors. > Then please do scroll below the signatures to read the > digest itself  from the  mighty and > wonderful  BlindLaw Yahoo group,  There you > will  learn of dates of the protest in NY City planned > for April 7, 2009.  > This is the larger challenge however:  via a class > action case  we propose a suit to prohibit all > communication, written notification companies and producers > of any type of communication devise or software etc., > especially phones, fax machines, all cell phone/tech > equipment, and all other products designed to communicate > and / or offer communication messages and methods, so > production/designer companies refrain  from further > discrimination against the blind and low visioned > population. > It is proposed that by establishing this as a requirement > during all communication devises production and designing it > so  accountability is built into the law to prove that > all devises etc. are produced with text to speech/voice > recognition and voice command abilities so the ease of use > feature activates from start up through usage AND > established reasonable costs for the devises are based on > the  average income levels of the disabled. Also > essential to this effort will be to establishing the > doctor's authority to write Rx's for essential communication > devises, these may vary and will need to be defined in the > case, and require insurance company/medicaid and > medicare,  approvals to pay for the devise or > equipment. > This elimination of an effective equally accessible > communication system via text to speech/voice commands and > voice recognition software, already developed and in > operation with screen reader abilities, must be applied and > useable - as well as user friendly - on all platforms > including Apple/mac product - ie.. the latest ipod shuffle > with reading aloud abilities throughout every menu and sub > menu  thus making it useable by the blind and visually > impaired! > This simple system is essential and finally available to > the sightless, those who so often, too often,  suffer > the indignities of a profit seeking - world. A world where > others MAKE THE DECISIONS TO HOLD back the rights of the > disabled yet make profits often on them by selling them the > only products available that are much too difficult for them > to easily operate let alone, set up to use! > And then, too often , the cost is prohibitive for so many! > So why is  a universally accessible communication > policy and system that assures equal access via these > technologies and software still not equally and always > available to the blind and low visioned?   IS > MONEY THE EXCUSE??  Too expensive to produce? Can't use > that excuse as it is already out there and has been for > years. So,  WHAT OTHER REASON COULD IT BE TO NOT have > speaking abilities, voice command, voice recognition > software built in to the equipment (like  the easy to > use VoiceOver in mac products)  and easily accessible > to all visually disabled people? > These are the people who require it to have equal access to > all that is offered visually to the sighted. >   AND YES!  Braille counts but braille is ONLY > ONE WAY AND IS, TO MOST IN TODAYS WORLD, NO LONGER THE > EASIEST METHOD.  For the deaf and blind perhaps but not > so any longer for the Visually Disabled who are able to > hear!!! > Some items that are available are so costly the expense > prohibits many to secure the services. And this is called > accessibility?   I think not!  This > seems to remain a legal/human rights for the disabled ADA > issue and also seems to indicate it really  should be a > class action suit leading to the highest level so ALL > equipment is made speakable and is useable at a FREE or very > reasonable cost to the low visioned and blind users. > It applies to all aspects of communication devises such as > TV and movies, VDRs , PDAs, clocks, watches, ANYTHING others > can see to communicate  thoughts or facts and knowledge > that the low visioned or blind cannot!!! > Why does NOT that make sense to everyone? >   Money ?  That is not an acceptable answer. > Consider:  Years ago, the deaf fought for hearing > aides. And cost was a factor until the fight was won and > hearing devices where on the market until the demand was > satisfied and costs went down to a reasonable level - in > most cases. Insurances were accessed and the story goes on. > > All must have access  - equally!  Not > selectively! > The blind / low visioned MUST have the ability to have all > aspects of communication devices spoken aloud to them, > especially land line phone caller ID by name and number, > phone buttons, all sub-menus within the system, remotes and > all sub menus within their oiperating suystems.. the list > goes on forever. > My long time hope remains that a caring dedicated lawyer > will take on this noble cause and keep the world informed as > it progresses!   Including a text to speech > method so the blind too can be aware of what is happening > around them as well as what may effect them and can then > allow then  the option of choice to determine if they > want to participate in that effort or act on the information > learned or not. > Copywrite issues are critical but human rights far exceed > them. How can one be part of an effort - perhaps to decide > to purchase the book or music or movie etc. if one is not > able to understand the communication regarding them because > it is only offered VISUALLY? > SIMPLY PUT,DESIGNERS AND PRODUCERS OF EQUIPMENT MUST USE > SOFTWARE TO USE THE AUDITORY CHANNEL OF THE VISUALLY > DISABLED SO THEY TOO ARE INCLUDED IN THE POPULATION. > That is it in a nutshell. Now we must fight to get it > unilaterally applied to everything. If you agree or disagree > this will not be criticized as we all learn form others and > our errors are often times corrected through discourse and > debate. It is asked that you do so politely, however. > Please feel free to comment to help move this noble effort > forward. > Please help the Blind  and Visually Disabled gain > equal access to today's technologically advanced world > similar to the level those of us who "see with our eyes" are > able to do! > Thanks for spreading the word. > PS - An aside but a notable one: > Seems as if a huge part of  the profit producing > market is being left out of the "BRILLIANT" marketing > strategies of communication products, does it not?  > Foolish move. > > Tired of excuses, > FEEL FREE TO  SEND ANY PART OR ALL OF THIS PROTEST AS > YOUR OWN WITH ANY CHANGES YOU FEEL WOULD HELP TO INFLUENCE > THOSE IN AUTHORITY WITH THE POWER TO CHANGE THIS SITUATION > AND GRANT THESE BASIC  RIGHTS TO THE BLIND AND VISUALLY > IMPAIRED. > YES WE CAN!  WE CAN CHANGE THIS!... JOIN THIS EFFORT > FOR OUR SIGHTLESS RELATIVES AND FRIENDS, PLEASE. > AS I SO SADLY LEARNED, TOMORROW BLINDNESS COULD VERY > EASILY AFFECT AND /OR  INCLUDE YOU! > We are 'Tired of Excuses", > ***PLEASE SCROLL AND READ BELOW  OUR E- SIGNATURES/ > EFFORTS FROM THE BLIND LAW DIGEST: > KATHY AND DENNIS  DIBONA > ALICE DRABIK > ROSE TURNER > kdbenterprises at yahoo.comhttp://fl.local.yahoo.biz/kdbenterprises/index.html > From: "blindlaw-request at nfbnet.org" > > To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org > Sent: Saturday, March 28, 2009 1:00:12 PM > Subject: blindlaw Digest, Vol 58, Issue 28 > Send blindlaw mailing list submissions to >     blindlaw at nfbnet.org > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' > to >     blindlaw-request at nfbnet.org > Today's Topics: > Informational Picketing Against Authors Guild in New  >   York > Message: 1 > Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 15:40:37 -0500 > From: David Andrews > Subject: [blindlaw] Informational Picketing Against Authors > Guild in >     New    York City > To: david.andrews at nfbnet.org > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; > format=flowed > > > >From Chris Danielson: > > Dear Fellow Federationists: > > As you may already know, Amazon, Inc.. released the newest > version of its > > e-book reader, the Kindle, on February 9 of this > year.  The Kindle 2 > > includes a feature that allows e-books downloaded to it to > be read aloud. > > The Authors Guild has objected to this feature because it > believes these > > e-books are licensed only for visual display, and under > pressure from the > > Guild, Amazon has decided to allow authors and publishers > to decide which > > books can be read aloud by this device.  Naturally, > this is a blow to blind > > people and others with print disabilities who can benefit > from the > > text-to-speech feature and who would love to be able to > purchase books and > > start reading them immediately for the first time in > history.  For this > > reason the National Federation of the Blind has joined with > other > > organizations representing people who cannot use print > effectively to fight > > the Authors Guild. > > We plan to kick off our public education campaign to > increase public > > pressure on the Authors Guild to reverse its stance with an > informational > > protest in front of the Guild?s headquarters in New York > City.  This picket > > will take place on Tuesday, April 7, from noon until 2:00 > p.m.  I am writing > > to you in hopes that you can organize members to come to > this protest.  A > > number of Federationists from Maryland are coming and we > expect > > participation from other organizations in the coalition, > but it would be > > very helpful if those of you with easy access to New York > City would help us > > by providing more picketers.  It is extremely > important that we make a > > strong impression on the Authors Guild and the media so > that our message > > will be heard. > > In the next few days you will receive more communications > with additional > > logistical details, as well as more information about our > position and > > suggestions on how to respond to questions from the > media.  In the meantime, > > if you have additional questions, please do not hesitate to > contact me.  As > > soon as you have an idea of how many people may be able to > come to this > > event, please provide that information to John Par? by > calling 410-659-9314, > > ext. 2227, or by e-mailing jpare at nfb.org.  > Thank you for your assistance in > > this important matter. > > Sincerely: > > Chris Danielsen > > Christopher S. Danielsen > > Director of Public Relations > > NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND > > > David Andrews and white cane Harry. > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2009 00:36:27 -0700 > From: > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Informational Picketing Against > Authors Guild >     in    NewYork City > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Message-ID: <94D47A96FA004126B3FFB96F0B9C6F95 at spike> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; > charset="iso-8859-1"; >     reply-type=response > > If the legislative alert system previously discussed on > this list hade been > implemented members from all over the country could respond > with emails or > faxes to the Authors Guild to address this issue. This > would be much more > effective then to expect Federations spending hundreds of > dollars on plain > fare and hotel accommodations for this cause. While the > information > definitely needs to be provided there are much more > effective ways for this > to be done. > Charles L. Krugman, M.S.W., ParalegalPresident, > NFB of California Central Valley Chapter > 1237 P Street > Fresno ca 93721 > 559-266-9237 > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "David Andrews" > To: > Sent: Friday, March 27, 2009 1:40 PM > Subject: [blindlaw] Informational Picketing Against Authors > Guild in NewYork > City > > > > >From Chris Danielson: > > Dear Fellow Federationists: > > As you may already know, Amazon, Inc. released the newest > version of its > > e-book reader, the Kindle, on February 9 of this > year.  The Kindle 2 > > includes a feature that allows e-books downloaded to it to > be read aloud. > > The Authors Guild has objected to this feature because it > believes these > > e-books are licensed only for visual display, and under > pressure from the > > Guild, Amazon has decided to allow authors and publishers > to decide which > > books can be read aloud by this device.  Naturally, > this is a blow to blind > > people and others with print disabilities who can benefit > from the > > text-to-speech feature and who would love to be able to > purchase books and > > start reading them immediately for the first time in > history.  For this > > reason the National Federation of the Blind has joined with > other > > organizations representing people who cannot use print > effectively to fight > > the Authors Guild. > > We plan to kick off our public education campaign to > increase public > > pressure on the Authors Guild to reverse its stance with an > informational > > protest in front of the Guild's headquarters in New York > City.  This picket > > will take place on Tuesday, April 7, from noon until 2:00 > p.m.  I am writing > > to you in hopes that you can organize members to come to > this protest.  A > > number of Federationists from Maryland are coming and we > expect > > participation from other organizations in the coalition, > but it would be > > very helpful if those of you with easy access to New York > City would help us > > by providing more picketers.  It is extremely > important that we make a > > strong impression on the Authors Guild and the media so > that our message > > will be heard. > > In the next few days you will receive more communications > with additional > > logistical details, as well as more information about our > position and > > suggestions on how to respond to questions from the > media.  In the meantime, > > if you have additional questions, please do not hesitate to > contact me.  As > > soon as you have an idea of how many people may be able to > come to this > > event, please provide that information to John Par? by > calling 410-659-9314, > > ext. 2227, or by e-mailing jpare at nfb.org.  > Thank you for your assistance in > > this important matter. > > Sincerely: > > Chris Danielsen > > Christopher S. Danielsen > > Director of Public Relations > > NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND > > > David Andrews and white cane Harry. > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2009 06:00:32 -0300 > From: "E.J. Zufelt" > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Informational Picketing Against > Authors Guild >     in    NewYork City > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Message-ID: <4D5D1503-3D66-471B-A599-6FEEF84E6840 at zufelt.ca> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; > format=flowed; delsp=yes > > Good morning, > > My concern with this action is whether or not the opinion > expressed is  > representative of NFB membership.  I for one believe > that Amazon is  > well within their reasonable right to block this > functionality from  > titles on their site to perserve the authors rights to > their  > intellectual property. > > Perhaps a better approach would be for Amazon to be > required to make  > an unlocked version of the texts available to individuals > who register  > as text impaired.  Understandably this method would > have several  > problems that would have to be negotiated between all > concerned parties. > > Just my two cents, > Everett > > > On 28-Mar-09, at 4:36 AM, > wrote: > > > If the legislative alert system previously discussed > on this list  > > hade been implemented members from all over the > country could  > > respond with emails or faxes to the Authors Guild to > address this  > > issue. This would be much more effective then to > expect Federations  > > spending hundreds of dollars on plain fare and hotel > accommodations  > > for this cause. While the information definitely needs > to be  > > provided there are much more effective ways for this > to be done. > > Charles L. Krugman, M.S.W., ParalegalPresident, > > NFB of California Central Valley Chapter > > 1237 P Street > > Fresno ca 93721 > > 559-266-9237 > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Andrews" > > > To: > > Sent: Friday, March 27, 2009 1:40 PM > > Subject: [blindlaw] Informational Picketing Against > Authors Guild in  > > NewYork City > > > > > > > > >From Chris Danielson: > > > > Dear Fellow Federationists: > > > > As you may already know, Amazon, Inc. released the > newest version of  > > its > > > > e-book reader, the Kindle, on February 9 of this > year.  The Kindle 2 > > > > includes a feature that allows e-books downloaded to > it to be read  > > aloud. > > > > The Authors Guild has objected to this feature because > it believes  > > these > > > > e-books are licensed only for visual display, and > under pressure  > > from the > > > > Guild, Amazon has decided to allow authors and > publishers to decide  > > which > > > > books can be read aloud by this device.  > Naturally, this is a blow  > > to blind > > > > people and others with print disabilities who can > benefit from the > > > > text-to-speech feature and who would love to be able > to purchase  > > books and > > > > start reading them immediately for the first time in > history.  For  > > this > > > > reason the National Federation of the Blind has joined > with other > > > > organizations representing people who cannot use print > effectively  > > to fight > > > > the Authors Guild. > > > > We plan to kick off our public education campaign to > increase public > > > > pressure on the Authors Guild to reverse its stance > with an  > > informational > > > > protest in front of the Guild's headquarters in New > York City.  This  > > picket > > > > will take place on Tuesday, April 7, from noon until > 2:00 p.m.  I am  > > writing > > > > to you in hopes that you can organize members to come > to this  > > protest.  A > > > > number of Federationists from Maryland are coming and > we expect > > > > participation from other organizations in the > coalition, but it  > > would be > > > > very helpful if those of you with easy access to New > York City would  > > help us > > > > by providing more picketers.  It is extremely > important that we make a > > > > strong impression on the Authors Guild and the media > so that our  > > message > > > > will be heard. > > > > In the next few days you will receive more > communications with  > > additional > > > > logistical details, as well as more information about > our position and > > > > suggestions on how to respond to questions from the > media.  In the  > > meantime, > > > > if you have additional questions, please do not > hesitate to contact  > > me.  As > > > > soon as you have an idea of how many people may be > able to come to  > > this > > > > event, please provide that information to John Par? by > calling  > > 410-659-9314, > > > > ext. 2227, or by e-mailing jpare at nfb.org.  > Thank you for your  > > assistance in > > > > this important matter. > > > > Sincerely: > > > > Chris Danielsen > > > > Christopher S. Danielsen > > > > Director of Public Relations > > > > NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND > > > > > > David Andrews and white cane Harry. > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > blindlaw mailing list > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info  > > for blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > blindlaw mailing list > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info  > > for blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/everett%40zufelt.ca > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2009 07:16:27 -0400 > From: "Chris Danielsen" > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Informational Picketing Against > Authors Guild >     inNewYork City > To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" > Message-ID: > <50AF7F0597184596939D794676C898AF at Scorpio13> > Content-Type: text/plain;    > charset="iso-8859-1" > > Hi Everett, > > First, let me say that not only are Federation members > supportive of this > action, but we have in fact reached out to other disability > organizations > representing individuals with spinal cord injuries, > dyslexia and other > learning disabilities, and other print disabilities and > they are all in > agreement with this position. Second, the issue here is not > whether authors > have the right to control their intellectual property, > which they most > certainly do. The issue is whether they can parse up the > uses of an e-book > that an individual has already paid for and claim that each > potential use of > it is an intellectual property right. > > The Authors Guild is upset because Amazon added a > text-to-speech function to > its Kindle 2, which means that downloaded e-books can be > read aloud. > Initially, Amazon did not plan to include the ability to > disable that > function; the company only backed down when the Authors > Guild raised a > stink. But the fact is that Amazon was initially legally > correct to believe > that there was no inherent intellectual property right > involved. The reading > aloud of text that one has purchased, in private, is not a > copyright > violation but a fair use. To argue otherwise is to argue > that parents who > read bedtime stories to their kids, or for that matter > blind people who have > a print textbook read aloud to them by a reader (human or > machine), are > violating copyright law. This is ridiculous and every > copyright lawyer worth > his or her salt knows it; even the Authors Guild is now > backing down from > it, arguing instead that the terms of their contracts > prohibit this use. It > makes absolutely no difference whether the reading aloud is > done by a human > or a machine, as long as there is no "public performance" > or derivative work > created. > > The Authors Guild wants what you have suggested--a > registration system for > people with disabilities, who would then be allowed to > unlock the > text-to-speech function. But more than just blind people > are affected here, > and many of them have disabilities that are not tied to a > specific organic > cause and can't be medically diagnosed. Besides, who would > administer this > system? Amazon? The Authors Guild? And more to the point, > why should > disabled readers have to register to read a book that we > have paid good > money for? The Guild's position is tantamount to saying, > "You can buy our > e-books but you can't read them without clearance from us." > It is > unacceptable and discriminatory. > > Bottom line; Everyone who pays good money for an > e-book--which is not > inherently either a visual or audio work and could > conceivably be converted > into even more formats, including Braille--should be able > to read it in > whatever form works best for them. The authors have a > chance here to get > money from the disability community--a revenue stream > they've never had > before since right now we get a lot of our reading material > from free or > subscription services like NLS or Bookshare. But our money > apparently isn't > good enough for them. Sure, they're motivated not by > keeping us out but by > trying to keep out the sighted, in order to make sure that > the sighted > either pay a surcharge for text-to-speech or buy the much > more expensive > audio book version. But that's just greed, not an > intellectual property > dispute. And disabled people who have legitimate reading > problems but can't > "prove" them to the satisfaction of the Authors Guild will > also have to pay > that surcharge. This is wrong on many levels and it's lousy > business too. I > hope that in light of all this you will consider supporting > our action. > > Library services for the blind and others have their place, > but the advent > of the e-book means that we no longer have to be locked > into those systems > and potentially will have access to a much broader array of > literary > content. This has been the dream of the blind and others > with print > disabilities for generations. We are not going to let a > knee-jerk, poorly > thought out reaction from some authors organization take > that dream away. > > Chris > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] > On > Behalf Of E.J. Zufelt > Sent: Saturday, March 28, 2009 5:01 AM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Informational Picketing Against > Authors Guild > inNewYork City > > Good morning, > > My concern with this action is whether or not the opinion > expressed is  > representative of NFB membership.  I for one believe > that Amazon is  > well within their reasonable right to block this > functionality from  > titles on their site to perserve the authors rights to > their  > intellectual property. > > Perhaps a better approach would be for Amazon to be > required to make  > an unlocked version of the texts available to individuals > who register  > as text impaired.  Understandably this method would > have several  > problems that would have to be negotiated between all > concerned parties. > > Just my two cents, > Everett > > > On 28-Mar-09, at 4:36 AM, > wrote: > > > If the legislative alert system previously discussed > on this list  > > hade been implemented members from all over the > country could  > > respond with emails or faxes to the Authors Guild to > address this  > > issue. This would be much more effective then to > expect Federations  > > spending hundreds of dollars on plain fare and hotel > accommodations  > > for this cause. While the information definitely needs > to be  > > provided there are much more effective ways for this > to be done. > > Charles L. Krugman, M.S.W., ParalegalPresident, > > NFB of California Central Valley Chapter > > 1237 P Street > > Fresno ca 93721 > > 559-266-9237 > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Andrews" > > > To: > > Sent: Friday, March 27, 2009 1:40 PM > > Subject: [blindlaw] Informational Picketing Against > Authors Guild in  > > NewYork City > > > > > > > > >From Chris Danielson: > > > > Dear Fellow Federationists: > > > > As you may already know, Amazon, Inc. released the > newest version of  > > its > > > > e-book reader, the Kindle, on February 9 of this > year.  The Kindle 2 > > > > includes a feature that allows e-books downloaded to > it to be read  > > aloud. > > > > The Authors Guild has objected to this feature because > it believes  > > these > > > > e-books are licensed only for visual display, and > under pressure  > > from the > > > > Guild, Amazon has decided to allow authors and > publishers to decide  > > which > > > > books can be read aloud by this device.  > Naturally, this is a blow  > > to blind > > > > people and others with print disabilities who can > benefit from the > > > > text-to-speech feature and who would love to be able > to purchase  > > books and > > > > start reading them immediately for the first time in > history.  For  > > this > > > > reason the National Federation of the Blind has joined > with other > > > > organizations representing people who cannot use print > effectively  > > to fight > > > > the Authors Guild. > > > > We plan to kick off our public education campaign to > increase public > > > > pressure on the Authors Guild to reverse its stance > with an  > > informational > > > > protest in front of the Guild's headquarters in New > York City.  This  > > picket > > > > will take place on Tuesday, April 7, from noon until > 2:00 p.m.  I am  > > writing > > > > to you in hopes that you can organize members to come > to this  > > protest.  A > > > > number of Federationists from Maryland are coming and > we expect > > > > participation from other organizations in the > coalition, but it  > > would be > > > > very helpful if those of you with easy access to New > York City would  > > help us > > > > by providing more picketers.  It is extremely > important that we make a > > > > strong impression on the Authors Guild and the media > so that our  > > message > > > > will be heard. > > > > In the next few days you will receive more > communications with  > > additional > > > > logistical details, as well as more information about > our position and > > > > suggestions on how to respond to questions from the > media.  In the  > > meantime, > > > > if you have additional questions, please do not > hesitate to contact  > > me.  As > > > > soon as you have an idea of how many people may be > able to come to  > > this > > > > event, please provide that information to John Par? by > calling  > > 410-659-9314, > > > > ext. 2227, or by e-mailing jpare at nfb.org.  > Thank you for your  > > assistance in > > > > this important matter. > > > > Sincerely: > > > > Chris Danielsen > > > > Christopher S. Danielsen > > > > Director of Public Relations > > > > NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND > > > > > > David Andrews and white cane Harry. > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > blindlaw mailing list > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info  > > for blindlaw: > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob > al.net > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > blindlaw mailing list > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info  > > for blindlaw: > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/everett%40zufelt.c > a > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. > com > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version > of virus signature > database 3971 (20090328) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version > of virus signature > database 3972 (20090328) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2009 09:25:11 -0300 > From: "E.J. Zufelt" > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Informational Picketing Against > Authors Guild >     inNewYork City > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; > format=flowed; delsp=yes > > Good morning, > > Interesting, I think that the word that persuades me here > is  > performance.  The argument then, as I understand it, > is that the  > reading aloud, by a person or machine, of a work differs > from an audio  > book that is commercially produced that would be considered > a  > performance of the work.  I think that I can accept > that to be a  > reasonable distinction between the two..  So, even if > the ability to  > have a work read aloud impacts negatively on an authors > return on  > investment, which it may not, it is as a result of evolving > technology  > and is something that the authoring industry will need to > deal with in  > the same manner as other industries must deal with the > potential  > negative economic impact of evolving technology. > > Thanks for your thorough explanation, > Everett > > > On 28-Mar-09, at 8:16 AM, Chris Danielsen wrote: > > > Hi Everett, > > > > First, let me say that not only are Federation members > supportive of  > > this > > action, but we have in fact reached out to other > disability  > > organizations > > representing individuals with spinal cord injuries, > dyslexia and other > > learning disabilities, and other print disabilities > and they are all  > > in > > agreement with this position. Second, the issue here > is not whether  > > authors > > have the right to control their intellectual property, > which they most > > certainly do. The issue is whether they can parse up > the uses of an  > > e-book > > that an individual has already paid for and claim that > each  > > potential use of > > it is an intellectual property right. > > > > The Authors Guild is upset because Amazon added a > text-to-speech  > > function to > > its Kindle 2, which means that downloaded e-books can > be read aloud. > > Initially, Amazon did not plan to include the ability > to disable that > > function; the company only backed down when the > Authors Guild raised a > > stink. But the fact is that Amazon was initially > legally correct to  > > believe > > that there was no inherent intellectual property right > involved. The  > > reading > > aloud of text that one has purchased, in private, is > not a copyright > > violation but a fair use. To argue otherwise is to > argue that  > > parents who > > read bedtime stories to their kids, or for that matter > blind people  > > who have > > a print textbook read aloud to them by a reader (human > or machine),  > > are > > violating copyright law. This is ridiculous and every > copyright  > > lawyer worth > > his or her salt knows it; even the Authors Guild is > now backing down  > > from > > it, arguing instead that the terms of their contracts > prohibit this  > > use. It > > makes absolutely no difference whether the reading > aloud is done by  > > a human > > or a machine, as long as there is no "public > performance" or  > > derivative work > > created. > > > > The Authors Guild wants what you have suggested--a > registration  > > system for > > people with disabilities, who would then be allowed to > unlock the > > text-to-speech function. But more than just blind > people are  > > affected here, > > and many of them have disabilities that are not tied > to a specific  > > organic > > cause and can't be medically diagnosed. Besides, who > would  > > administer this > > system? Amazon? The Authors Guild? And more to the > point, why should > > disabled readers have to register to read a book that > we have paid  > > good > > money for? The Guild's position is tantamount to > saying, "You can  > > buy our > > e-books but you can't read them without clearance from > us." It is > > unacceptable and discriminatory. > > > > Bottom line; Everyone who pays good money for an > e-book--which is not > > inherently either a visual or audio work and could > conceivably be  > > converted > > into even more formats, including Braille--should be > able to read it  > > in > > whatever form works best for them. The authors have a > chance here to  > > get > > money from the disability community--a revenue stream > they've never  > > had > > before since right now we get a lot of our reading > material from  > > free or > > subscription services like NLS or Bookshare. But our > money  > > apparently isn't > > good enough for them. Sure, they're motivated not by > keeping us out  > > but by > > trying to keep out the sighted, in order to make sure > that the sighted > > either pay a surcharge for text-to-speech or buy the > much more  > > expensive > > audio book version. But that's just greed, not an > intellectual  > > property > > dispute. And disabled people who have legitimate > reading problems  > > but can't > > "prove" them to the satisfaction of the Authors Guild > will also have  > > to pay > > that surcharge. This is wrong on many levels and it's > lousy business  > > too. I > > hope that in light of all this you will consider > supporting our  > > action. > > > > Library services for the blind and others have their > place, but the  > > advent > > of the e-book means that we no longer have to be > locked into those  > > systems > > and potentially will have access to a much broader > array of literary > > content. This has been the dream of the blind and > others with print > > disabilities for generations. We are not going to let > a knee-jerk,  > > poorly > > thought out reaction from some authors organization > take that dream  > > away. > > > > Chris > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:blindlaw- > > bounces at nfbnet.org] > On > > Behalf Of E.J. Zufelt > > Sent: Saturday, March 28, 2009 5:01 AM > > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Informational Picketing > Against Authors Guild > > inNewYork City > > > > Good morning, > > > > My concern with this action is whether or not the > opinion expressed is > > representative of NFB membership.  I for one > believe that Amazon is > > well within their reasonable right to block this > functionality from > > titles on their site to perserve the authors rights to > their > > intellectual property. > > > > Perhaps a better approach would be for Amazon to be > required to make > > an unlocked version of the texts available to > individuals who register > > as text impaired.  Understandably this method > would have several > > problems that would have to be negotiated between all > concerned  > > parties. > > > > Just my two cents, > > Everett > > > > > > On 28-Mar-09, at 4:36 AM, > wrote: > > > >> If the legislative alert system previously > discussed on this list > >> hade been implemented members from all over the > country could > >> respond with emails or faxes to the Authors Guild > to address this > >> issue. This would be much more effective then to > expect Federations > >> spending hundreds of dollars on plain fare and > hotel accommodations > >> for this cause. While the information definitely > needs to be > >> provided there are much more effective ways for > this to be done. > >> Charles L. Krugman, M.S.W., ParalegalPresident, > >> NFB of California Central Valley Chapter > >> 1237 P Street > >> Fresno ca 93721 > >> 559-266-9237 > >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "David > Andrews"  > >> > >> To: > >> Sent: Friday, March 27, 2009 1:40 PM > >> Subject: [blindlaw] Informational Picketing > Against Authors Guild in > >> NewYork City > >> > >> > >> > >>> From Chris Danielson: > >> > >> Dear Fellow Federationists: > >> > >> As you may already know, Amazon, Inc. released the > newest version of > >> its > >> > >> e-book reader, the Kindle, on February 9 of this > year.  The Kindle 2 > >> > >> includes a feature that allows e-books downloaded > to it to be read > >> aloud. > >> > >> The Authors Guild has objected to this feature > because it believes > >> these > >> > >> e-books are licensed only for visual display, and > under pressure > >> from the > >> > >> Guild, Amazon has decided to allow authors and > publishers to decide > >> which > >> > >> books can be read aloud by this device.  > Naturally, this is a blow > >> to blind > >> > >> people and others with print disabilities who can > benefit from the > >> > >> text-to-speech feature and who would love to be > able to purchase > >> books and > >> > >> start reading them immediately for the first time > in history.  For > >> this > >> > >> reason the National Federation of the Blind has > joined with other > >> > >> organizations representing people who cannot use > print effectively > >> to fight > >> > >> the Authors Guild. > >> > >> We plan to kick off our public education campaign > to increase public > >> > >> pressure on the Authors Guild to reverse its > stance with an > >> informational > >> > >> protest in front of the Guild's headquarters in > New York City.  This > >> picket > >> > >> will take place on Tuesday, April 7, from noon > until 2:00 p.m.  I am > >> writing > >> > >> to you in hopes that you can organize members to > come to this > >> protest.  A > >> > >> number of Federationists from Maryland are coming > and we expect > >> > >> participation from other organizations in the > coalition, but it > >> would be > >> > >> very helpful if those of you with easy access to > New York City would > >> help us > >> > >> by providing more picketers.  It is extremely > important that we  > >> make a > >> > >> strong impression on the Authors Guild and the > media so that our > >> message > >> > >> will be heard. > >> > >> In the next few days you will receive more > communications with > >> additional > >> > >> logistical details, as well as more information > about our position  > >> and > >> > >> suggestions on how to respond to questions from > the media.  In the > >> meantime, > >> > >> if you have additional questions, please do not > hesitate to contact > >> me.  As > >> > >> soon as you have an idea of how many people may be > able to come to > >> this > >> > >> event, please provide that information to John > Par? by calling > >> 410-659-9314, > >> > >> ext. 2227, or by e-mailing jpare at nfb.org.  > Thank you for your > >> assistance in > >> > >> this important matter. > >> > >> Sincerely: > >> > >> Chris Danielsen > >> > >> Christopher S. Danielsen > >> > >> Director of Public Relations > >> > >> NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND > >> > >> > >> David Andrews and white cane Harry. > >> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> blindlaw mailing list > >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get > your account info > >> for blindlaw: > >> > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob > > al.net > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> blindlaw mailing list > >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get > your account info > >> for blindlaw: > >> > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/everett%40zufelt.c > > a > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > blindlaw mailing list > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for > > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol > > > . > > com > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, > version of virus  > > signature > > database 3971 (20090328) __________ > > > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > > > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, > version of virus  > > signature > > database 3972 (20090328) __________ > > > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > blindlaw mailing list > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info  > > for blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet..org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/everett%40zufelt.ca > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2009 09:17:16 -0700 > From: Michael Fry > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Informational Picketing Against > Authors Guild >     inNewYork City > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Message-ID: >     <8c58e54a0903280917t4d5b93ear95d903b361ddceab at mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Without doing an in depth analysis of the issue I will > simply say that I > strongly support the NFB on this issue.  I'm very > proud of the NFB > for courageously taking up a difficult fight whose positive > outcome will in > all practical terms improve the lives of the blind.  > The Guild's neo-luddite > stance is shameful and wrong. > > I will go so far as to say that any anti-technology or > scientific > advancement policy or stance is detrimental to the visually > impaired > community because it is only through this technology that > the lot of the > visually impaired is appreciably improved and frankly the > only path to > eventually curing blindness.  But that's a broader > message used perhaps as a > guideline that may already be tacitly incorporated into the > NFB's mission > statement. > > The NFB should form a coalition with it's other disability > advocacy brothers > such as those with spinal cord injury ect. to oppose any > luddite stances and > vigorously advocate the federal government for increased > hard life > science research and development and less draconian > regulations. > > > > On Sat, Mar 28, 2009 at 5:25 AM, E.J. Zufelt > wrote: > > > Good morning, > > > > Interesting, I think that the word that persuades me > here is performance. > >  The argument then, as I understand it, is that > the reading aloud, by a > > person or machine, of a work differs from an audio > book that is commercially > > produced that would be considered a performance of the > work.  I think that I > > can accept that to be a reasonable distinction between > the two.  So, even if > > the ability to have a work read aloud impacts > negatively on an authors > > return on investment, which it may not, it is as a > result of evolving > > technology and is something that the authoring > industry will need to deal > > with in the same manner as other industries must deal > with the potential > > negative economic impact of evolving technology. > > > > Thanks for your thorough explanation, > > Everett > > > > > > > > On 28-Mar-09, at 8:16 AM, Chris Danielsen wrote: > > > >   Hi Everett, > >> > >> First, let me say that not only are Federation > members supportive of this > >> action, but we have in fact reached out to other > disability organizations > >> representing individuals with spinal cord > injuries, dyslexia and other > >> learning disabilities, and other print > disabilities and they are all in > >> agreement with this position. Second, the issue > here is not whether > >> authors > >> have the right to control their intellectual > property, which they most > >> certainly do. The issue is whether they can parse > up the uses of an e-book > >> that an individual has already paid for and claim > that each potential use > >> of > >> it is an intellectual property right. > >> > >> The Authors Guild is upset because Amazon added a > text-to-speech function > >> to > >> its Kindle 2, which means that downloaded e-books > can be read aloud. > >> Initially, Amazon did not plan to include the > ability to disable that > >> function; the company only backed down when the > Authors Guild raised a > >> stink.. But the fact is that Amazon was initially > legally correct to > >> believe > >> that there was no inherent intellectual property > right involved. The > >> reading > >> aloud of text that one has purchased, in private, > is not a copyright > >> violation but a fair use. To argue otherwise is to > argue that parents who > >> read bedtime stories to their kids, or for that > matter blind people who > >> have > >> a print textbook read aloud to them by a reader > (human or machine), are > >> violating copyright law. This is ridiculous and > every copyright lawyer > >> worth > >> his or her salt knows it; even the Authors Guild > is now backing down from > >> it, arguing instead that the terms of their > contracts prohibit this use. > >> It > >> makes absolutely no difference whether the reading > aloud is done by a > >> human > >> or a machine, as long as there is no "public > performance" or derivative > >> work > >> created. > >> > >> The Authors Guild wants what you have suggested--a > registration system for > >> people with disabilities, who would then be > allowed to unlock the > >> text-to-speech function. But more than just blind > people are affected > >> here, > >> and many of them have disabilities that are not > tied to a specific organic > >> cause and can't be medically diagnosed. Besides, > who would administer this > >> system? Amazon? The Authors Guild? And more to the > point, why should > >> disabled readers have to register to read a book > that we have paid good > >> money for? The Guild's position is tantamount to > saying, "You can buy our > >> e-books but you can't read them without clearance > from us." It is > >> unacceptable and discriminatory. > >> > >> Bottom line; Everyone who pays good money for an > e-book--which is not > >> inherently either a visual or audio work and could > conceivably be > >> converted > >> into even more formats, including Braille--should > be able to read it in > >> whatever form works best for them. The authors > have a chance here to get > >> money from the disability community--a revenue > stream they've never had > >> before since right now we get a lot of our reading > material from free or > >> subscription services like NLS or Bookshare. But > our money apparently > >> isn't > >> good enough for them. Sure, they're motivated not > by keeping us out but by > >> trying to keep out the sighted, in order to make > sure that the sighted > >> either pay a surcharge for text-to-speech or buy > the much more expensive > >> audio book version. But that's just greed, not an > intellectual property > >> dispute. And disabled people who have legitimate > reading problems but > >> can't > >> "prove" them to the satisfaction of the Authors > Guild will also have to > >> pay > >> that surcharge. This is wrong on many levels and > it's lousy business too. > >> I > >> hope that in light of all this you will consider > supporting our action. > >> > >> Library services for the blind and others have > their place, but the advent > >> of the e-book means that we no longer have to be > locked into those systems > >> and potentially will have access to a much broader > array of literary > >> content. This has been the dream of the blind and > others with print > >> disabilities for generations. We are not going to > let a knee-jerk, poorly > >> thought out reaction from some authors > organization take that dream away. > >> > >> Chris > >> > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] > On > >> Behalf Of E.J. Zufelt > >> Sent: Saturday, March 28, 2009 5:01 AM > >> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Informational Picketing > Against Authors Guild > >> inNewYork City > >> > >> Good morning, > >> > >> My concern with this action is whether or not the > opinion expressed is > >> representative of NFB membership.  I for one > believe that Amazon is > >> well within their reasonable right to block this > functionality from > >> titles on their site to perserve the authors > rights to their > >> intellectual property. > >> > >> Perhaps a better approach would be for Amazon to > be required to make > >> an unlocked version of the texts available to > individuals who register > >> as text impaired.  Understandably this method > would have several > >> problems that would have to be negotiated between > all concerned parties. > >> > >> Just my two cents, > >> Everett > >> > >> > >> On 28-Mar-09, at 4:36 AM, > wrote: > >> > >> If the legislative alert system previously > discussed on this list > >>> hade been implemented members from all over > the country could > >>> respond with emails or faxes to the Authors > Guild to address this > >>> issue. This would be much more effective then > to expect Federations > >>> spending hundreds of dollars on plain fare and > hotel accommodations > >>> for this cause. While the information > definitely needs to be > >>> provided there are much more effective ways > for this to be done. > >>> Charles L. Krugman, M.S.W., > ParalegalPresident, > >>> NFB of California Central Valley Chapter > >>> 1237 P Street > >>> Fresno ca 93721 > >>> 559-266-9237 > >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "David > Andrews" > >>> To: > >>> Sent: Friday, March 27, 2009 1:40 PM > >>> Subject: [blindlaw] Informational Picketing > Against Authors Guild in > >>> NewYork City > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> From Chris Danielson: > >>>> > >>> > >>> Dear Fellow Federationists: > >>> > >>> As you may already know, Amazon, Inc. released > the newest version of > >>> its > >>> > >>> e-book reader, the Kindle, on February 9 of > this year.  The Kindle 2 > >>> > >>> includes a feature that allows e-books > downloaded to it to be read > >>> aloud. > >>> > >>> The Authors Guild has objected to this feature > because it believes > >>> these > >>> > >>> e-books are licensed only for visual display, > and under pressure > >>> from the > >>> > >>> Guild, Amazon has decided to allow authors and > publishers to decide > >>> which > >>> > >>> books can be read aloud by this device.  > Naturally, this is a blow > >>> to blind > >>> > >>> people and others with print disabilities who > can benefit from the > >>> > >>> text-to-speech feature and who would love to > be able to purchase > >>> books and > >>> > >>> start reading them immediately for the first > time in history.  For > >>> this > >>> > >>> reason the National Federation of the Blind > has joined with other > >>> > >>> organizations representing people who cannot > use print effectively > >>> to fight > >>> > >>> the Authors Guild. > >>> > >>> We plan to kick off our public education > campaign to increase public > >>> > >>> pressure on the Authors Guild to reverse its > stance with an > >>> informational > >>> > >>> protest in front of the Guild's headquarters > in New York City.  This > >>> picket > >>> > >>> will take place on Tuesday, April 7, from noon > until 2:00 p.m.  I am > >>> writing > >>> > >>> to you in hopes that you can organize members > to come to this > >>> protest.  A > >>> > >>> number of Federationists from Maryland are > coming and we expect > >>> > >>> participation from other organizations in the > coalition, but it > >>> would be > >>> > >>> very helpful if those of you with easy access > to New York City would > >>> help us > >>> > >>> by providing more picketers.  It is > extremely important that we make a > >>> > >>> strong impression on the Authors Guild and the > media so that our > >>> message > >>> > >>> will be heard. > >>> > >>> In the next few days you will receive more > communications with > >>> additional > >>> > >>> logistical details, as well as more > information about our position and > >>> > >>> suggestions on how to respond to questions > from the media.  In the > >>> meantime, > >>> > >>> if you have additional questions, please do > not hesitate to contact > >>> me.  As > >>> > >>> soon as you have an idea of how many people > may be able to come to > >>> this > >>> > >>> event, please provide that information to John > Par? by calling > >>> 410-659-9314, > >>> > >>> ext. 2227, or by e-mailing jpare at nfb.org.  > Thank you for your > >>> assistance in > >>> > >>> this important matter. > >>> > >>> Sincerely: > >>> > >>> Chris Danielsen > >>> > >>> Christopher S. Danielsen > >>> > >>> Director of Public Relations > >>> > >>> NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND > >>> > >>> > >>> David Andrews and white cane Harry. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ > >>> blindlaw mailing list > >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or > get your account info > >>> for blindlaw: > >>> > >>> > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob > >> al.net > >> > >>> > >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ > >>> blindlaw mailing list > >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or > get your account info > >>> for blindlaw: > >>> > >>> > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/everett%40zufelt.c > >> a > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> blindlaw mailing list > >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get > your account info for > >> blindlaw: > >> > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol > >> . > >> com > >> > >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, > version of virus > >> signature > >> database 3971 (20090328) __________ > >> > >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > >> > >> http://www.eset.com > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, > version of virus > >> signature > >> database 3972 (20090328) __________ > >> > >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > >> > >> http://www.eset.com > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> blindlaw mailing list > >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get > your account info for > >> blindlaw: > >> > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/everett%40zufelt.ca > >> > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > blindlaw mailing list > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for > > blindlaw: > > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mikefry79%40gmail.com > > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > > End of blindlaw Digest, Vol 58, Issue 28 > **************************************** > > > >       > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/william.odonnell1%40yahoo.com > From DFrye at nfb.org Mon Mar 30 18:37:50 2009 From: DFrye at nfb.org (Frye, Dan) Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2009 14:37:50 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] tenBroek Law Symposium--Still Time to Register In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6B953F49@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local> Fred: I appreciate your constructive suggestion for expanding the reach of the tenBroek Law Symposium, and I will pass your feedback along to event organizers. In this instance I have only been asked to convey the announcement to this list; I have not been directly involved with event logistics. While I cannot speak with any authority on this subject, I would doubt that Web-casting the symposium at this stage can or will be managed. Please know that if you were available to attend, I am confident that provision could be made for your lodging without regard to your organizational affiliation. I wouldn't "be at a loss" if I were you about no plans for Web-casting the event; it's either not being done because all the good ideas didn't originate with the bright but human event organizers or a conscious decision to encourage in-person participation was made. I am certain that the decision about Web-casting (whatever it was) was not an oversight calculated to offend, cause consternation or outrage, or leave people "at a loss." Obviously not everybody will be able to attend--we just want people to know that the welcome mat is extended if your life's circumstances allow for you to take the time and spend the money to do so. Dan Frye -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Fred Wright Lopez Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 1:36 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] tenBroek Law Symposium--Still Time to Register I am an attorney member of the Blind Lawyers Association, although not an NFB member I first would like to thank you for the genrerous offer you have extended with regard to loggingassistance for the tenBroek Law Sympsium. Transportation costs are certaintly a disincentive to participation in this education conference. However, I am at a lost to understand why there was no effort to provide "Web Casting" of this very important legal training session. I reside in California and accordingly the length of time taken to travel to and from the conference site is also a consideration. I for one would very like to benefit from the tenbroek seminar but can not afford the time away from other pressing legal obligations. Web casting of the event would provide the opportunity for many of us to participate. Is there any possibility that the symposium can be web cast? Sincerely, Fred W. Lopez On Mar 30, 2009, at 9:19 AM, Frye, Dan wrote: > List Colleagues: > > Lou Ann Blake, the tenBroek Law Symposium coordinator on the NFB > national staff, has asked that I post this reminder flyer once again > to members of the blind and visually impaired legal community > subscribed to this list. In addition to everything Lou Ann says in the > following announcement (which is also attached as a Word Document for > your convenience), I am reasonably confident that some accommodations > here at the National Center for the Blind can be made available for > our members and friends who would come except for the additional > expense associated with lodging. If free sleeping accommodations here > at the National Center for the Blind would make your participation > more likely, please contact Lou Ann Blake to discuss arrangements. As > stated in the announcement, other financial concessions associated > with the tenBroek Law Symposium can also be made in certain > circumstances. Lou Ann has assembled a high-caliber array of program > presenters, and we want to make certain that people can benefit from > this important symposium. > See > the announcement pasted below and attached to this message for further > information: > > There's Still Time to Register and Reserve Your Room at the Holiday > Inn Inner Harbor > > > > For the > > > > 2009 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium > > New Perspectives on Disability Law: Advancing the Right to Live in the > World > > > > > > Be sure to let your colleagues and friends know that the deadline to > register for this exciting and powerful symposium is April 10, 2009, > and that the cut-off date for reserving rooms at the Holiday Inn Inner > Harbor has been extended to April 3, 2009. Don't miss this > opportunity to voice your concerns to Kareem Dale, Special Assistant > to President Obama for Disability Policy, at the 2009 Jacobus tenBroek > Disability Law Symposium on April 17th at the National Federation of > the Blind Jernigan Institute in Baltimore, Maryland. Mr. Dale will > speak on the Obama administration's policies on disability issues for > approximately thirty minutes followed by a forty-five minute question > and answer session. In addition to Mr. Dale, the presenters for the > 2009 symposium are: > > > > * Maura Healey, Assistant Attorney General and Chief, Office of > Civil Rights, Commonwealth of Massachusetts; > * Amy Robertson and Timothy Fox, Principals, Fox & Robertson, > P.C.; > * Gerard Quinn, Professor of Law, National University of Ireland, > Galway; > * Katherine Guernsey, International Lawyer and Adjunct Professor, > American University School of International Service; > * Samuel Bagenstos, Visiting Professor of Law, UCLA Law School; > * Christine Griffin, Commissioner, United States Equal Employment > Opportunity Commission; and > * Peter Blanck, University Professor and Chairman, Burton Blatt > Institute at Syracuse University. > > > > Ari Ne'eman, founding president of the Autistic Self-Advocacy Network, > will give the luncheon keynote address. > > > > To view the full agenda, register online, or download the registration > form to register by mail or fax, visit the symposium Web page at > http://www.nfb.org/nfb/Law_Symposium.asp. Hotel information may also > be found on the symposium Web page. The deadline to make room > reservations at the Holiday Inn Inner Harbor has been extended to 3:00 > pm, April 3, 2009. > > > > The registration fee is $150; students may register for $20. A > limited number of scholarships to cover the registration fee will be > available to individuals with demonstrated financial need. Don't miss > this exciting opportunity to interact with leading scholars, > government officials, and advocates and to make your voice heard. The > deadline to register is April 10, 2009. > > > > Symposium attendees will be provided documentation for CLE credit. > Individuals will be responsible for filing the application for CLE > credit with their state board. > > > > The 2009 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium is sponsored by the > National Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute, the American Bar > Association Commission on Mental and Physical Disability Law, the > Maryland Department of Disability, the Texas Journal on Civil > Liberties and Civil Rights, and the Legal Times. > > > > For additional information about the symposium, contact: > > > > Lou Ann Blake, Law Symposium Coordinator > > National Federation of the Blind > > Telephone: (410) 659-9314, ext. 2221 > > E-mail: lblake at nfb.org > > > > I look forward to seeing many of you on April 17, 2009, for the second > annual tenBroek Law Symposium. > > > > With Kind Regards, > > > > > *********************** > Daniel B. Frye, J.D. > Associate Editor > The Braille Monitor > National Federation of the Blind > Office of the President > 1800 Johnson Street > Baltimore, Maryland 21230 > Telephone: (410) 659-9314 Ext. 2208 > Mobile: (410) 241-7006 > Fax: (410) 685-5653 > Email: DFrye at nfb.org > Web Address: www.nfb.org "Voice of the Nation's > Blind" > > <3-30 2009 law sym promo e- > mail.doc>_______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/fwlopez%40co > mcast.net _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dfrye%40nfb.or g From chatter8712 at gmail.com Mon Mar 30 18:47:59 2009 From: chatter8712 at gmail.com (Shane D) Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2009 14:47:59 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Fw: Reading Rights Coalition Urges Authors to Allow Everyone Access to E-books In-Reply-To: <8c58e54a0903301021m44094b44q5bcb7e72ab209a59@mail.gmail.com> References: <40DB1C3BA7A1407E83E3E7A85D0E24FE@labarre> <8c58e54a0903301021m44094b44q5bcb7e72ab209a59@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7556b95a0903301147s5ef9d3b9ubf43957bd3e1787d@mail.gmail.com> I may have missed it, but where did you come up with the registering and paying extra? The issue is that they can just turn off the reading for all. On 3/30/09, Michael Fry wrote: > It is awesome that so many organizations are coalescing around such a noble > and worthy cause. > > The Guilds position is immoral since it is infringes on human rights > and dignity because it exploits, for profit, a vulnerable minority of the > population. Requiring the disabled to 'register' - like some kind > of inferior animal - in order to use new, free, and > innovative text-to-speech technology places an unnecessary obstacle in path > of people with disablities. This obstacle is desgined solely to exploit > money from people without the time or inclination or, who are too > embarrassed to register, as a text disabled individuals. They are > attempting to bully extra profits out of people with disabilities. The > Guild, comprised of enlightened and educated individuals, should be ashamed > since there is no explanation other than immoral greed for their position. > > > On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 9:16 AM, Scott C. LaBarre > wrote: > >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Freeh, Jessica >> To: Alpidio Rolon ; Amy Buresh ; Anil Lewis ; Art Schreiber ; Beth Rival ; >> Bob Kresmer ; Carl Jacobsen ; Cathy Jackson ; Charlene Smyth ; Christine >> G. >> Hall ; Daniel Burke ; David Ticchi ; Don Galloway ; Donna Wood ; Elsie >> Lamp >> ; Frank Lee ; Franklin Shiner ; Fred Schroeder ; Fred Wurtzel ; Gary Ray ; >> Gary Wunder ; J.W. Smith ; James Antonacci ; James Broadnax ; Jennelle >> Bichler ; Jennifer Dunnam ; Jerree Harris ; Joe Ruffalo ; John Batron ; >> John >> Fritz ; Joyce Scanlan ; Kathy Davis ; Ken Rollman ; Kevan Worley ; Marie >> Johnson ; Mary Willows ; Melissa Riccobono ; Michael Barber ; Michael >> Freeman ; Nani Fife ; Pam Allen ; Parnell Diggs ; Patti Chang ; Richard >> Bennett ; Richard Gaffney ; Ron Brown ; Ron Gardner ; Sam Gleese ; Scott >> LaBarre ; Selena Sundling-Crawford ; Steven Priddle ; Terri Rupp ; Tommy >> Craig >> Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 7:09 AM >> Subject: Reading Rights Coalition Urges Authors to Allow Everyone Access >> to >> E-books >> >> >> FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE >> >> >> CONTACT: >> >> Chris Danielsen >> >> Director of Public Relations >> >> National Federation of the Blind >> >> (410) 659-9314, ext. 2330 >> >> (410) 262-1281 (Cell) >> cdanielsen at nfb.org >> >> >> >> Reading Rights Coalition Urges Authors to Allow >> Everyone Access to E-books >> >> >> >> Informational Protest to be Held at Authors Guild Headquarters >> >> >> >> New York City (March 30, 2009): The Reading Rights Coalition, which >> represents people who cannot read print, will protest the threatened >> removal >> of the text-to-speech function from e-books for the Amazon Kindle 2 >> outside >> the Authors Guild headquarters in New York City at 31 East 32nd Street on >> April 7, 2009, from noon to 2:00 p.m. The coalition includes the blind, >> people with dyslexia, people with learning or processing issues, seniors >> losing vision, people with spinal cord injuries, people recovering from >> strokes, and many others for whom the addition of text-to-speech on the >> Kindle 2 promised for the first time easy, mainstream access to over >> 245,000 >> books. >> >> >> >> When Amazon released the Kindle 2 electronic book reader on February 9, >> 2009, the company announced that the device would be able to read e-books >> aloud using text-to-speech technology. Under pressure from the Authors >> Guild, Amazon has announced that it will give authors and publishers the >> ability to disable the text-to-speech function on any or all of their >> e-books available for the Kindle 2. >> >> >> >> Dr. Marc Maurer, President of the National Federation of the Blind, said: >> "The blind and print-disabled have for years utilized text-to-speech >> technology to read and access information. As technology advances and >> more >> books move from hard-copy print to electronic formats, people with print >> disabilities have for the first time in history the opportunity to enjoy >> access to books on an equal basis with those who can read print. Authors >> and publishers who elect to disable text-to-speech for their e-books on >> the >> Kindle 2 prevent people who are blind or have >> >> other print disabilities from reading these e-books. This is blatant >> discrimination and we will not tolerate it." >> >> >> >> Mike Shuttic, president of the Association on Higher Education and >> Disability (AHEAD), said: "AHEAD envisions educational and societal >> environments that value disability and embody equality of opportunity. >> This >> vision of AHEAD is directly aligned with the efforts of this coalition. >> Although much rhetoric is made about potential obstacles and problems >> that >> exist, the basic goal is clear and simple--access for everyone. And why >> create something that prevents it?" >> >> >> >> Mitch Pomerantz, president of the American Council of the Blind, said: >> "Removing the text-to-speech features closes the door on an innovative >> technological solution that would make regular print books available to >> tens >> of thousands of individuals who are blind or visually impaired." >> >> >> >> Andrew Imparato, President and Chief Executive Officer for the American >> Association of People with Disabilities (AAPD), said: "It is outrageous >> when >> a technology device shuts out people with all kinds of disabilities. AAPD >> works to remove barriers to accessibility and usability in technology, and >> we don't expect to see people with disabilities singled out by having to >> pay >> more for access. New technologies, such as electronic books, should be >> available to everyone regardless of disability." >> >> Paul Schroeder, vice president of programs and policy for the American >> Foundation for the Blind, said: "Those of us with print disabilities have >> long dreamed of a world in which books and media are available to us at >> the >> same time as everyone else. The Kindle 2 offers that possibility for the >> first time. We hope publishers and authors come to see that >> text-to-speech >> is simply an alternative means of access to print." >> >> Dr. Peter Blanck, chairman and university professor at Burton Blatt >> Institute at Syracuse University, said: "As electronic books become the >> norm, denying universal access will result in more and more people with >> disabilities being left out of education, employment, and the societal >> conversation. We will all suffer from the absence of their participation >> and contribution to the debates that occupy us as a society." >> >> >> >> George Kerscher of the Digital Accessible Information System (DAISY) >> Consortium, said: "The DAISY Consortium envisions a world where people >> with >> print disabilities have equal access to information and knowledge, without >> delay or additional expense. Authors and publishers surely must share >> this >> vision. Now that the issue of human rights has been explained, and the >> opportunity for larger sales are known, I urge the Authors Guild to >> reverse >> their position on text-to-speech and join us in actively encouraging all >> publishers and reading technology developers to open the world of reading >> to >> everybody. Authors, join us on the picket line." >> >> >> >> >> >> Steve Jacobs, president of IDEAL Group Inc., said, "Not only is >> text-to-speech important to people who are blind, it is critical in >> providing quality educations to millions of young people who rely on >> text-to-speech to learn effectively. This includes students with autism, >> learning disabilities, mobility disabilities, and cognitive disabilities >> that impact their ability to acquire information with their eyes only. I >> remain hopeful that the talented members of the Authors Guild come to >> understand the potential negative impact of disabling the text-to-speech >> function on their e-books and reconsider their position." >> >> >> >> Cynthia D. Waddell, executive director of the International Center for >> Disability Resources on the Internet (ICDRI), said: "The mission of ICDRI >> supports the removal of barriers in electronic and information technology >> and the promotion of equal access. ICDRI welcomes the text-to-speech >> functionality being offered by the Kindle 2 since it increases mainstream >> access to books for the first time in history. We question why the >> Authors >> Guild demands that it be turned it off since many more books would be sold >> if text-to-speech was turned back on. Not only >> >> does this feature benefit persons with disabilities, but it also helps >> persons for whom English is not their native language. In an increasingly >> mobile society, flexibility in access to content improves the quality of >> life for everyone." >> >> >> >> James Love, director of Knowledge Ecology International, said: "Knowing >> full well that not everyone can see, the Authors Guild wants the right to >> be >> seen, but not heard. By bullying Amazon to change the technology of >> Kindle >> 2, the Authors Guild will either deny access to people who are disabled, >> or >> make them pay more. By attacking disabled persons in this way, the >> Authors >> Guild is attacking everyone who would otherwise benefit from the >> contributions this community has the potential to offer." >> >> >> >> James H. Wendorf, executive director for the National Center for Learning >> Disabilities, said: "Access to the written word is the cornerstone of >> education and democracy. New technologies must serve individuals with >> disabilities, not impede them. Our homes, schools and ultimately our >> economy rely on support for the future, not discriminating practices and >> beliefs from the past." >> >> While the Kindle 2 is not currently accessible to blind users, Amazon >> recently announced on its Kindle 2 blog that it is currently at work on >> making the device's navigational features accessible to the blind. >> >> >> >> The coalition includes: American Association of People with Disabilities, >> American Council of the Blind, American Foundation for the Blind, >> Association on Higher Education and Disability, Bazelon Center for Mental >> Health Law, Burton Blatt Institute, Digital Accessible Information System >> (DAISY) Consortium, Disability Rights Education and Defense Fund (DREDF), >> IDEAL Group, Inc., International Center for Disability Resources on the >> Internet, International Dyslexia Association, International Dyslexia >> Association--New York Branch, Knowledge Ecology International, Learning >> Disabilities Association of America, National Center for Learning >> Disabilities, National Disability Rights Network, National Federation of >> the >> Blind, NISH, and the National Spinal Cord Injury Association. In addition >> to the April 7 New York City protest, the coalition will participate in >> the >> Los Angeles Times Festival of Books on April 25-26. >> >> >> >> ### >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mikefry79%40gmail.com >> > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/chatter8712%40gmail.com > -- -Shane Website: http://www.blind-geek.com AIM: inhaddict MSN: shane at blind-geek.com Skype: chatter8712 Twitter: blind_geek From stone_troll at sbcglobal.net Mon Mar 30 19:28:35 2009 From: stone_troll at sbcglobal.net (Mark BurningHawk) Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2009 12:28:35 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] NO MORE EXCUSES - THE BLIND HAVE RIGHTS TO "HEAR WHAT OTHERS SEE" CHALLENGE 09 In-Reply-To: <835440.21854.qm@web30901.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <835440.21854.qm@web30901.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <0A854623-B9A3-40F7-916E-2E5747628147@sbcglobal.net> That's right, darn it! The blind deserve the right to be just as selfish and greedy and uncaring as the rest of them! The blind should be able to live for today and not care about the problems of tomorrow with the same blaze disregard for the downtrodden as do the rest of the Americans! ... get my point? Don't trade one set of stereotypes for another; you sound just as bitter as the whining blindies sitting home collecting their checks and expecting the world to be handed to them. While I prefer your particular brand of bitterness over their, and to a very large degree share it, I am also aware of the follies in trading one stereotype for another. Beware of becoming your enemy. From everett at zufelt.ca Mon Mar 30 22:15:26 2009 From: everett at zufelt.ca (E.J. Zufelt) Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2009 19:15:26 -0300 Subject: [blindlaw] Fw: Reading Rights Coalition Urges Authors to Allow Everyone Access to E-books In-Reply-To: <8c58e54a0903301021m44094b44q5bcb7e72ab209a59@mail.gmail.com> References: <40DB1C3BA7A1407E83E3E7A85D0E24FE@labarre> <8c58e54a0903301021m44094b44q5bcb7e72ab209a59@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <02D7D05D-7EE8-4D75-A7F1-05A1096E94B4@zufelt.ca> Is it immoral for Bookshare to require registration aswell? Everett On 30-Mar-09, at 2:21 PM, Michael Fry wrote: > It is awesome that so many organizations are coalescing around such > a noble > and worthy cause. > > The Guilds position is immoral since it is infringes on human rights > and dignity because it exploits, for profit, a vulnerable minority > of the > population. Requiring the disabled to 'register' - like some kind > of inferior animal - in order to use new, free, and > innovative text-to-speech technology places an unnecessary obstacle > in path > of people with disablities. This obstacle is desgined solely to > exploit > money from people without the time or inclination or, who are too > embarrassed to register, as a text disabled individuals. They are > attempting to bully extra profits out of people with disabilities. > The > Guild, comprised of enlightened and educated individuals, should be > ashamed > since there is no explanation other than immoral greed for their > position. > > > On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 9:16 AM, Scott C. LaBarre > wrote: > >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Freeh, Jessica >> To: Alpidio Rolon ; Amy Buresh ; Anil Lewis ; Art Schreiber ; Beth >> Rival ; >> Bob Kresmer ; Carl Jacobsen ; Cathy Jackson ; Charlene Smyth ; >> Christine G. >> Hall ; Daniel Burke ; David Ticchi ; Don Galloway ; Donna Wood ; >> Elsie Lamp >> ; Frank Lee ; Franklin Shiner ; Fred Schroeder ; Fred Wurtzel ; >> Gary Ray ; >> Gary Wunder ; J.W. Smith ; James Antonacci ; James Broadnax ; >> Jennelle >> Bichler ; Jennifer Dunnam ; Jerree Harris ; Joe Ruffalo ; John >> Batron ; John >> Fritz ; Joyce Scanlan ; Kathy Davis ; Ken Rollman ; Kevan Worley ; >> Marie >> Johnson ; Mary Willows ; Melissa Riccobono ; Michael Barber ; Michael >> Freeman ; Nani Fife ; Pam Allen ; Parnell Diggs ; Patti Chang ; >> Richard >> Bennett ; Richard Gaffney ; Ron Brown ; Ron Gardner ; Sam Gleese ; >> Scott >> LaBarre ; Selena Sundling-Crawford ; Steven Priddle ; Terri Rupp ; >> Tommy >> Craig >> Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 7:09 AM >> Subject: Reading Rights Coalition Urges Authors to Allow Everyone >> Access to >> E-books >> >> >> FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE >> >> >> CONTACT: >> >> Chris Danielsen >> >> Director of Public Relations >> >> National Federation of the Blind >> >> (410) 659-9314, ext. 2330 >> >> (410) 262-1281 (Cell) >> cdanielsen at nfb.org >> >> >> >> Reading Rights Coalition Urges Authors to Allow >> Everyone Access to E-books >> >> >> >> Informational Protest to be Held at Authors Guild Headquarters >> >> >> >> New York City (March 30, 2009): The Reading Rights Coalition, which >> represents people who cannot read print, will protest the >> threatened removal >> of the text-to-speech function from e-books for the Amazon Kindle 2 >> outside >> the Authors Guild headquarters in New York City at 31 East 32nd >> Street on >> April 7, 2009, from noon to 2:00 p.m. The coalition includes the >> blind, >> people with dyslexia, people with learning or processing issues, >> seniors >> losing vision, people with spinal cord injuries, people recovering >> from >> strokes, and many others for whom the addition of text-to-speech on >> the >> Kindle 2 promised for the first time easy, mainstream access to >> over 245,000 >> books. >> >> >> >> When Amazon released the Kindle 2 electronic book reader on >> February 9, >> 2009, the company announced that the device would be able to read e- >> books >> aloud using text-to-speech technology. Under pressure from the >> Authors >> Guild, Amazon has announced that it will give authors and >> publishers the >> ability to disable the text-to-speech function on any or all of their >> e-books available for the Kindle 2. >> >> >> >> Dr. Marc Maurer, President of the National Federation of the Blind, >> said: >> "The blind and print-disabled have for years utilized text-to-speech >> technology to read and access information. As technology advances >> and more >> books move from hard-copy print to electronic formats, people with >> print >> disabilities have for the first time in history the opportunity to >> enjoy >> access to books on an equal basis with those who can read print. >> Authors >> and publishers who elect to disable text-to-speech for their e- >> books on the >> Kindle 2 prevent people who are blind or have >> >> other print disabilities from reading these e-books. This is blatant >> discrimination and we will not tolerate it." >> >> >> >> Mike Shuttic, president of the Association on Higher Education and >> Disability (AHEAD), said: "AHEAD envisions educational and societal >> environments that value disability and embody equality of >> opportunity. This >> vision of AHEAD is directly aligned with the efforts of this >> coalition. >> Although much rhetoric is made about potential obstacles and >> problems that >> exist, the basic goal is clear and simple--access for everyone. >> And why >> create something that prevents it?" >> >> >> >> Mitch Pomerantz, president of the American Council of the Blind, >> said: >> "Removing the text-to-speech features closes the door on an >> innovative >> technological solution that would make regular print books >> available to tens >> of thousands of individuals who are blind or visually impaired." >> >> >> >> Andrew Imparato, President and Chief Executive Officer for the >> American >> Association of People with Disabilities (AAPD), said: "It is >> outrageous when >> a technology device shuts out people with all kinds of >> disabilities. AAPD >> works to remove barriers to accessibility and usability in >> technology, and >> we don't expect to see people with disabilities singled out by >> having to pay >> more for access. New technologies, such as electronic books, >> should be >> available to everyone regardless of disability." >> >> Paul Schroeder, vice president of programs and policy for the >> American >> Foundation for the Blind, said: "Those of us with print >> disabilities have >> long dreamed of a world in which books and media are available to >> us at the >> same time as everyone else. The Kindle 2 offers that possibility >> for the >> first time. We hope publishers and authors come to see that text- >> to-speech >> is simply an alternative means of access to print." >> >> Dr. Peter Blanck, chairman and university professor at Burton Blatt >> Institute at Syracuse University, said: "As electronic books become >> the >> norm, denying universal access will result in more and more people >> with >> disabilities being left out of education, employment, and the >> societal >> conversation. We will all suffer from the absence of their >> participation >> and contribution to the debates that occupy us as a society." >> >> >> >> George Kerscher of the Digital Accessible Information System (DAISY) >> Consortium, said: "The DAISY Consortium envisions a world where >> people with >> print disabilities have equal access to information and knowledge, >> without >> delay or additional expense. Authors and publishers surely must >> share this >> vision. Now that the issue of human rights has been explained, and >> the >> opportunity for larger sales are known, I urge the Authors Guild to >> reverse >> their position on text-to-speech and join us in actively >> encouraging all >> publishers and reading technology developers to open the world of >> reading to >> everybody. Authors, join us on the picket line." >> >> >> >> >> >> Steve Jacobs, president of IDEAL Group Inc., said, "Not only is >> text-to-speech important to people who are blind, it is critical in >> providing quality educations to millions of young people who rely on >> text-to-speech to learn effectively. This includes students with >> autism, >> learning disabilities, mobility disabilities, and cognitive >> disabilities >> that impact their ability to acquire information with their eyes >> only. I >> remain hopeful that the talented members of the Authors Guild come to >> understand the potential negative impact of disabling the text-to- >> speech >> function on their e-books and reconsider their position." >> >> >> >> Cynthia D. Waddell, executive director of the International Center >> for >> Disability Resources on the Internet (ICDRI), said: "The mission >> of ICDRI >> supports the removal of barriers in electronic and information >> technology >> and the promotion of equal access. ICDRI welcomes the text-to-speech >> functionality being offered by the Kindle 2 since it increases >> mainstream >> access to books for the first time in history. We question why the >> Authors >> Guild demands that it be turned it off since many more books would >> be sold >> if text-to-speech was turned back on. Not only >> >> does this feature benefit persons with disabilities, but it also >> helps >> persons for whom English is not their native language. In an >> increasingly >> mobile society, flexibility in access to content improves the >> quality of >> life for everyone." >> >> >> >> James Love, director of Knowledge Ecology International, said: >> "Knowing >> full well that not everyone can see, the Authors Guild wants the >> right to be >> seen, but not heard. By bullying Amazon to change the technology >> of Kindle >> 2, the Authors Guild will either deny access to people who are >> disabled, or >> make them pay more. By attacking disabled persons in this way, the >> Authors >> Guild is attacking everyone who would otherwise benefit from the >> contributions this community has the potential to offer." >> >> >> >> James H. Wendorf, executive director for the National Center for >> Learning >> Disabilities, said: "Access to the written word is the cornerstone of >> education and democracy. New technologies must serve individuals >> with >> disabilities, not impede them. Our homes, schools and ultimately our >> economy rely on support for the future, not discriminating >> practices and >> beliefs from the past." >> >> While the Kindle 2 is not currently accessible to blind users, Amazon >> recently announced on its Kindle 2 blog that it is currently at >> work on >> making the device's navigational features accessible to the blind. >> >> >> >> The coalition includes: American Association of People with >> Disabilities, >> American Council of the Blind, American Foundation for the Blind, >> Association on Higher Education and Disability, Bazelon Center for >> Mental >> Health Law, Burton Blatt Institute, Digital Accessible Information >> System >> (DAISY) Consortium, Disability Rights Education and Defense Fund >> (DREDF), >> IDEAL Group, Inc., International Center for Disability Resources on >> the >> Internet, International Dyslexia Association, International Dyslexia >> Association--New York Branch, Knowledge Ecology International, >> Learning >> Disabilities Association of America, National Center for Learning >> Disabilities, National Disability Rights Network, National >> Federation of the >> Blind, NISH, and the National Spinal Cord Injury Association. In >> addition >> to the April 7 New York City protest, the coalition will >> participate in the >> Los Angeles Times Festival of Books on April 25-26. >> >> >> >> ### >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mikefry79%40gmail.com >> > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/everett%40zufelt.ca From angie.matney at gmail.com Mon Mar 30 23:26:23 2009 From: angie.matney at gmail.com (Angie Matney) Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2009 19:26:23 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Fw: Reading Rights Coalition Urges Authors to Allow Everyone Access to E-books In-Reply-To: <02D7D05D-7EE8-4D75-A7F1-05A1096E94B4@zufelt.ca> References: <40DB1C3BA7A1407E83E3E7A85D0E24FE@labarre> <8c58e54a0903301021m44094b44q5bcb7e72ab209a59@mail.gmail.com> <02D7D05D-7EE8-4D75-A7F1-05A1096E94B4@zufelt.ca> Message-ID: <49d1551c.86c3f10a.4caf.ffff857c@mx.google.com> Given that wide-spread use of Bookshare would indeed amount to copyright violations, since it would involve creation and distribution of eBooks by third parties; and given that use of the Kindle involves an audible rendering based on a licensed copy of an ebook, and no additional copy is created; the two situations are quite dissimilar. Angie -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of E.J. Zufelt Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 6:15 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Fw: Reading Rights Coalition Urges Authors to Allow Everyone Access to E-books Is it immoral for Bookshare to require registration aswell? From mikefry79 at gmail.com Mon Mar 30 23:29:39 2009 From: mikefry79 at gmail.com (Michael Fry) Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2009 16:29:39 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Fw: Reading Rights Coalition Urges Authors to Allow Everyone Access to E-books In-Reply-To: <7556b95a0903301147s5ef9d3b9ubf43957bd3e1787d@mail.gmail.com> References: <40DB1C3BA7A1407E83E3E7A85D0E24FE@labarre> <8c58e54a0903301021m44094b44q5bcb7e72ab209a59@mail.gmail.com> <7556b95a0903301147s5ef9d3b9ubf43957bd3e1787d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <8c58e54a0903301629obd7c8b0nb50fc62d55697957@mail.gmail.com> To address the first part of your question, Shane, the Guild made the suggestion that those with disabilities desiring to use the Kindle 2 text-to-speech software would have to register in order to obtain access to that software. A burden of proof showing the extent of the registrants disability would be placed on the registrant. This in addition to the hassle of filling out and processing the registration form. I don't know about you Shane, but I don't want to tell the Guild about the intimate details of my disability. Regarding the second part of your first question, Shane. As far as the additional cost goes the Guild can charge more for an aduiobook than they can for a print based book. The reason they don't want the text-to-speech software used is because they think demand for more expensive audiobooks will decrease. This is a stupidly held belief on their part since audiobooks should be considered a different media than books read via text-to-speech software because audiobooks are read by humans and therefore have a superior sounding quality. The Guild's position is analogous to them saying anyone with a reading disability must buy a more expensive hard cover book. In fact it's even more egregious than that because the selection of audiobooks is paltry compared to that of print books. I know that Guild wants to have the ability to just turn off the text to reading software. But the real issue is why do they want to turn off the reading software? The answer to that question, Shane, is so Guild can force people with text-reading-disabilities to buy more expensive audiobooks. I realize the last posting I made in this thread had some grammatical problems. I was in a rush while writing it. Nonetheless, I hope I got the point across. Mike On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 11:47 AM, Shane D wrote: > I may have missed it, but where did you come up with the registering > and paying extra? The issue is that they can just turn off the reading > for all. > > On 3/30/09, Michael Fry wrote: > > It is awesome that so many organizations are coalescing around such a > noble > > and worthy cause. > > > > The Guilds position is immoral since it is infringes on human rights > > and dignity because it exploits, for profit, a vulnerable minority of the > > population. Requiring the disabled to 'register' - like some kind > > of inferior animal - in order to use new, free, and > > innovative text-to-speech technology places an unnecessary obstacle in > path > > of people with disablities. This obstacle is desgined solely to exploit > > money from people without the time or inclination or, who are too > > embarrassed to register, as a text disabled individuals. They are > > attempting to bully extra profits out of people with disabilities. The > > Guild, comprised of enlightened and educated individuals, should be > ashamed > > since there is no explanation other than immoral greed for their > position. > > > > > > On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 9:16 AM, Scott C. LaBarre > > wrote: > > > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: Freeh, Jessica > >> To: Alpidio Rolon ; Amy Buresh ; Anil Lewis ; Art Schreiber ; Beth Rival > ; > >> Bob Kresmer ; Carl Jacobsen ; Cathy Jackson ; Charlene Smyth ; Christine > >> G. > >> Hall ; Daniel Burke ; David Ticchi ; Don Galloway ; Donna Wood ; Elsie > >> Lamp > >> ; Frank Lee ; Franklin Shiner ; Fred Schroeder ; Fred Wurtzel ; Gary Ray > ; > >> Gary Wunder ; J.W. Smith ; James Antonacci ; James Broadnax ; Jennelle > >> Bichler ; Jennifer Dunnam ; Jerree Harris ; Joe Ruffalo ; John Batron ; > >> John > >> Fritz ; Joyce Scanlan ; Kathy Davis ; Ken Rollman ; Kevan Worley ; Marie > >> Johnson ; Mary Willows ; Melissa Riccobono ; Michael Barber ; Michael > >> Freeman ; Nani Fife ; Pam Allen ; Parnell Diggs ; Patti Chang ; Richard > >> Bennett ; Richard Gaffney ; Ron Brown ; Ron Gardner ; Sam Gleese ; Scott > >> LaBarre ; Selena Sundling-Crawford ; Steven Priddle ; Terri Rupp ; Tommy > >> Craig > >> Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 7:09 AM > >> Subject: Reading Rights Coalition Urges Authors to Allow Everyone Access > >> to > >> E-books > >> > >> > >> FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE > >> > >> > >> CONTACT: > >> > >> Chris Danielsen > >> > >> Director of Public Relations > >> > >> National Federation of the Blind > >> > >> (410) 659-9314, ext. 2330 > >> > >> (410) 262-1281 (Cell) > >> cdanielsen at nfb.org > >> > >> > >> > >> Reading Rights Coalition Urges Authors to Allow > >> Everyone Access to E-books > >> > >> > >> > >> Informational Protest to be Held at Authors Guild Headquarters > >> > >> > >> > >> New York City (March 30, 2009): The Reading Rights Coalition, which > >> represents people who cannot read print, will protest the threatened > >> removal > >> of the text-to-speech function from e-books for the Amazon Kindle 2 > >> outside > >> the Authors Guild headquarters in New York City at 31 East 32nd Street > on > >> April 7, 2009, from noon to 2:00 p.m. The coalition includes the blind, > >> people with dyslexia, people with learning or processing issues, seniors > >> losing vision, people with spinal cord injuries, people recovering from > >> strokes, and many others for whom the addition of text-to-speech on the > >> Kindle 2 promised for the first time easy, mainstream access to over > >> 245,000 > >> books. > >> > >> > >> > >> When Amazon released the Kindle 2 electronic book reader on February 9, > >> 2009, the company announced that the device would be able to read > e-books > >> aloud using text-to-speech technology. Under pressure from the Authors > >> Guild, Amazon has announced that it will give authors and publishers the > >> ability to disable the text-to-speech function on any or all of their > >> e-books available for the Kindle 2. > >> > >> > >> > >> Dr. Marc Maurer, President of the National Federation of the Blind, > said: > >> "The blind and print-disabled have for years utilized text-to-speech > >> technology to read and access information. As technology advances and > >> more > >> books move from hard-copy print to electronic formats, people with print > >> disabilities have for the first time in history the opportunity to enjoy > >> access to books on an equal basis with those who can read print. > Authors > >> and publishers who elect to disable text-to-speech for their e-books on > >> the > >> Kindle 2 prevent people who are blind or have > >> > >> other print disabilities from reading these e-books. This is blatant > >> discrimination and we will not tolerate it." > >> > >> > >> > >> Mike Shuttic, president of the Association on Higher Education and > >> Disability (AHEAD), said: "AHEAD envisions educational and societal > >> environments that value disability and embody equality of opportunity. > >> This > >> vision of AHEAD is directly aligned with the efforts of this coalition. > >> Although much rhetoric is made about potential obstacles and problems > >> that > >> exist, the basic goal is clear and simple--access for everyone. And why > >> create something that prevents it?" > >> > >> > >> > >> Mitch Pomerantz, president of the American Council of the Blind, said: > >> "Removing the text-to-speech features closes the door on an innovative > >> technological solution that would make regular print books available to > >> tens > >> of thousands of individuals who are blind or visually impaired." > >> > >> > >> > >> Andrew Imparato, President and Chief Executive Officer for the American > >> Association of People with Disabilities (AAPD), said: "It is outrageous > >> when > >> a technology device shuts out people with all kinds of disabilities. > AAPD > >> works to remove barriers to accessibility and usability in technology, > and > >> we don't expect to see people with disabilities singled out by having to > >> pay > >> more for access. New technologies, such as electronic books, should be > >> available to everyone regardless of disability." > >> > >> Paul Schroeder, vice president of programs and policy for the American > >> Foundation for the Blind, said: "Those of us with print disabilities > have > >> long dreamed of a world in which books and media are available to us at > >> the > >> same time as everyone else. The Kindle 2 offers that possibility for the > >> first time. We hope publishers and authors come to see that > >> text-to-speech > >> is simply an alternative means of access to print." > >> > >> Dr. Peter Blanck, chairman and university professor at Burton Blatt > >> Institute at Syracuse University, said: "As electronic books become the > >> norm, denying universal access will result in more and more people with > >> disabilities being left out of education, employment, and the societal > >> conversation. We will all suffer from the absence of their > participation > >> and contribution to the debates that occupy us as a society." > >> > >> > >> > >> George Kerscher of the Digital Accessible Information System (DAISY) > >> Consortium, said: "The DAISY Consortium envisions a world where people > >> with > >> print disabilities have equal access to information and knowledge, > without > >> delay or additional expense. Authors and publishers surely must share > >> this > >> vision. Now that the issue of human rights has been explained, and the > >> opportunity for larger sales are known, I urge the Authors Guild to > >> reverse > >> their position on text-to-speech and join us in actively encouraging all > >> publishers and reading technology developers to open the world of > reading > >> to > >> everybody. Authors, join us on the picket line." > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> Steve Jacobs, president of IDEAL Group Inc., said, "Not only is > >> text-to-speech important to people who are blind, it is critical in > >> providing quality educations to millions of young people who rely on > >> text-to-speech to learn effectively. This includes students with > autism, > >> learning disabilities, mobility disabilities, and cognitive disabilities > >> that impact their ability to acquire information with their eyes only. I > >> remain hopeful that the talented members of the Authors Guild come to > >> understand the potential negative impact of disabling the text-to-speech > >> function on their e-books and reconsider their position." > >> > >> > >> > >> Cynthia D. Waddell, executive director of the International Center for > >> Disability Resources on the Internet (ICDRI), said: "The mission of > ICDRI > >> supports the removal of barriers in electronic and information > technology > >> and the promotion of equal access. ICDRI welcomes the text-to-speech > >> functionality being offered by the Kindle 2 since it increases > mainstream > >> access to books for the first time in history. We question why the > >> Authors > >> Guild demands that it be turned it off since many more books would be > sold > >> if text-to-speech was turned back on. Not only > >> > >> does this feature benefit persons with disabilities, but it also helps > >> persons for whom English is not their native language. In an > increasingly > >> mobile society, flexibility in access to content improves the quality of > >> life for everyone." > >> > >> > >> > >> James Love, director of Knowledge Ecology International, said: "Knowing > >> full well that not everyone can see, the Authors Guild wants the right > to > >> be > >> seen, but not heard. By bullying Amazon to change the technology of > >> Kindle > >> 2, the Authors Guild will either deny access to people who are disabled, > >> or > >> make them pay more. By attacking disabled persons in this way, the > >> Authors > >> Guild is attacking everyone who would otherwise benefit from the > >> contributions this community has the potential to offer." > >> > >> > >> > >> James H. Wendorf, executive director for the National Center for > Learning > >> Disabilities, said: "Access to the written word is the cornerstone of > >> education and democracy. New technologies must serve individuals with > >> disabilities, not impede them. Our homes, schools and ultimately our > >> economy rely on support for the future, not discriminating practices and > >> beliefs from the past." > >> > >> While the Kindle 2 is not currently accessible to blind users, Amazon > >> recently announced on its Kindle 2 blog that it is currently at work on > >> making the device's navigational features accessible to the blind. > >> > >> > >> > >> The coalition includes: American Association of People with > Disabilities, > >> American Council of the Blind, American Foundation for the Blind, > >> Association on Higher Education and Disability, Bazelon Center for > Mental > >> Health Law, Burton Blatt Institute, Digital Accessible Information > System > >> (DAISY) Consortium, Disability Rights Education and Defense Fund > (DREDF), > >> IDEAL Group, Inc., International Center for Disability Resources on the > >> Internet, International Dyslexia Association, International Dyslexia > >> Association--New York Branch, Knowledge Ecology International, Learning > >> Disabilities Association of America, National Center for Learning > >> Disabilities, National Disability Rights Network, National Federation of > >> the > >> Blind, NISH, and the National Spinal Cord Injury Association. In > addition > >> to the April 7 New York City protest, the coalition will participate in > >> the > >> Los Angeles Times Festival of Books on April 25-26. > >> > >> > >> > >> ### > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> blindlaw mailing list > >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> blindlaw: > >> > >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mikefry79%40gmail.com > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > blindlaw mailing list > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > blindlaw: > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/chatter8712%40gmail.com > > > > > -- > -Shane > Website: http://www.blind-geek.com > AIM: inhaddict > MSN: shane at blind-geek.com > Skype: chatter8712 > Twitter: blind_geek > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mikefry79%40gmail.com > From roddj12 at hotmail.com Tue Mar 31 00:11:51 2009 From: roddj12 at hotmail.com (Rod Alcidonis) Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2009 20:11:51 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Fw: Reading Rights Coalition Urges Authors to Allow Everyone Access to E-books In-Reply-To: <02D7D05D-7EE8-4D75-A7F1-05A1096E94B4@zufelt.ca> References: <40DB1C3BA7A1407E83E3E7A85D0E24FE@labarre> <8c58e54a0903301021m44094b44q5bcb7e72ab209a59@mail.gmail.com> <02D7D05D-7EE8-4D75-A7F1-05A1096E94B4@zufelt.ca> Message-ID: I can't tell you how much I hate it when a legal issue is seriously being debated on this list and someone comes along with a statement that is at best, uninformed. The current issue is not even close to a bookshare situation. I am afraid that this listserv might soon loses its character as a legal forum for blind legal professionals. Sad. Rod Alcidonis  Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009. Roger Williams University School of Law 10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 Bristol, RI 02809 Home: (401) 824-8685 Cell: (718) 704-4651  E-mail: roddj12 at hotmail.com -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of E.J. Zufelt Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 6:15 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Fw: Reading Rights Coalition Urges Authors to Allow Everyone Access to E-books Is it immoral for Bookshare to require registration aswell? Everett On 30-Mar-09, at 2:21 PM, Michael Fry wrote: > It is awesome that so many organizations are coalescing around such > a noble > and worthy cause. > > The Guilds position is immoral since it is infringes on human rights > and dignity because it exploits, for profit, a vulnerable minority > of the > population. Requiring the disabled to 'register' - like some kind > of inferior animal - in order to use new, free, and > innovative text-to-speech technology places an unnecessary obstacle > in path > of people with disablities. This obstacle is desgined solely to > exploit > money from people without the time or inclination or, who are too > embarrassed to register, as a text disabled individuals. They are > attempting to bully extra profits out of people with disabilities. > The > Guild, comprised of enlightened and educated individuals, should be > ashamed > since there is no explanation other than immoral greed for their > position. > > > On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 9:16 AM, Scott C. LaBarre > wrote: > >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Freeh, Jessica >> To: Alpidio Rolon ; Amy Buresh ; Anil Lewis ; Art Schreiber ; Beth >> Rival ; >> Bob Kresmer ; Carl Jacobsen ; Cathy Jackson ; Charlene Smyth ; >> Christine G. >> Hall ; Daniel Burke ; David Ticchi ; Don Galloway ; Donna Wood ; >> Elsie Lamp >> ; Frank Lee ; Franklin Shiner ; Fred Schroeder ; Fred Wurtzel ; >> Gary Ray ; >> Gary Wunder ; J.W. Smith ; James Antonacci ; James Broadnax ; >> Jennelle >> Bichler ; Jennifer Dunnam ; Jerree Harris ; Joe Ruffalo ; John >> Batron ; John >> Fritz ; Joyce Scanlan ; Kathy Davis ; Ken Rollman ; Kevan Worley ; >> Marie >> Johnson ; Mary Willows ; Melissa Riccobono ; Michael Barber ; Michael >> Freeman ; Nani Fife ; Pam Allen ; Parnell Diggs ; Patti Chang ; >> Richard >> Bennett ; Richard Gaffney ; Ron Brown ; Ron Gardner ; Sam Gleese ; >> Scott >> LaBarre ; Selena Sundling-Crawford ; Steven Priddle ; Terri Rupp ; >> Tommy >> Craig >> Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 7:09 AM >> Subject: Reading Rights Coalition Urges Authors to Allow Everyone >> Access to >> E-books >> >> >> FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE >> >> >> CONTACT: >> >> Chris Danielsen >> >> Director of Public Relations >> >> National Federation of the Blind >> >> (410) 659-9314, ext. 2330 >> >> (410) 262-1281 (Cell) >> cdanielsen at nfb.org >> >> >> >> Reading Rights Coalition Urges Authors to Allow >> Everyone Access to E-books >> >> >> >> Informational Protest to be Held at Authors Guild Headquarters >> >> >> >> New York City (March 30, 2009): The Reading Rights Coalition, which >> represents people who cannot read print, will protest the >> threatened removal >> of the text-to-speech function from e-books for the Amazon Kindle 2 >> outside >> the Authors Guild headquarters in New York City at 31 East 32nd >> Street on >> April 7, 2009, from noon to 2:00 p.m. The coalition includes the >> blind, >> people with dyslexia, people with learning or processing issues, >> seniors >> losing vision, people with spinal cord injuries, people recovering >> from >> strokes, and many others for whom the addition of text-to-speech on >> the >> Kindle 2 promised for the first time easy, mainstream access to >> over 245,000 >> books. >> >> >> >> When Amazon released the Kindle 2 electronic book reader on >> February 9, >> 2009, the company announced that the device would be able to read e- >> books >> aloud using text-to-speech technology. Under pressure from the >> Authors >> Guild, Amazon has announced that it will give authors and >> publishers the >> ability to disable the text-to-speech function on any or all of their >> e-books available for the Kindle 2. >> >> >> >> Dr. Marc Maurer, President of the National Federation of the Blind, >> said: >> "The blind and print-disabled have for years utilized text-to-speech >> technology to read and access information. As technology advances >> and more >> books move from hard-copy print to electronic formats, people with >> print >> disabilities have for the first time in history the opportunity to >> enjoy >> access to books on an equal basis with those who can read print. >> Authors >> and publishers who elect to disable text-to-speech for their e- >> books on the >> Kindle 2 prevent people who are blind or have >> >> other print disabilities from reading these e-books. This is blatant >> discrimination and we will not tolerate it." >> >> >> >> Mike Shuttic, president of the Association on Higher Education and >> Disability (AHEAD), said: "AHEAD envisions educational and societal >> environments that value disability and embody equality of >> opportunity. This >> vision of AHEAD is directly aligned with the efforts of this >> coalition. >> Although much rhetoric is made about potential obstacles and >> problems that >> exist, the basic goal is clear and simple--access for everyone. >> And why >> create something that prevents it?" >> >> >> >> Mitch Pomerantz, president of the American Council of the Blind, >> said: >> "Removing the text-to-speech features closes the door on an >> innovative >> technological solution that would make regular print books >> available to tens >> of thousands of individuals who are blind or visually impaired." >> >> >> >> Andrew Imparato, President and Chief Executive Officer for the >> American >> Association of People with Disabilities (AAPD), said: "It is >> outrageous when >> a technology device shuts out people with all kinds of >> disabilities. AAPD >> works to remove barriers to accessibility and usability in >> technology, and >> we don't expect to see people with disabilities singled out by >> having to pay >> more for access. New technologies, such as electronic books, >> should be >> available to everyone regardless of disability." >> >> Paul Schroeder, vice president of programs and policy for the >> American >> Foundation for the Blind, said: "Those of us with print >> disabilities have >> long dreamed of a world in which books and media are available to >> us at the >> same time as everyone else. The Kindle 2 offers that possibility >> for the >> first time. We hope publishers and authors come to see that text- >> to-speech >> is simply an alternative means of access to print." >> >> Dr. Peter Blanck, chairman and university professor at Burton Blatt >> Institute at Syracuse University, said: "As electronic books become >> the >> norm, denying universal access will result in more and more people >> with >> disabilities being left out of education, employment, and the >> societal >> conversation. We will all suffer from the absence of their >> participation >> and contribution to the debates that occupy us as a society." >> >> >> >> George Kerscher of the Digital Accessible Information System (DAISY) >> Consortium, said: "The DAISY Consortium envisions a world where >> people with >> print disabilities have equal access to information and knowledge, >> without >> delay or additional expense. Authors and publishers surely must >> share this >> vision. Now that the issue of human rights has been explained, and >> the >> opportunity for larger sales are known, I urge the Authors Guild to >> reverse >> their position on text-to-speech and join us in actively >> encouraging all >> publishers and reading technology developers to open the world of >> reading to >> everybody. Authors, join us on the picket line." >> >> >> >> >> >> Steve Jacobs, president of IDEAL Group Inc., said, "Not only is >> text-to-speech important to people who are blind, it is critical in >> providing quality educations to millions of young people who rely on >> text-to-speech to learn effectively. This includes students with >> autism, >> learning disabilities, mobility disabilities, and cognitive >> disabilities >> that impact their ability to acquire information with their eyes >> only. I >> remain hopeful that the talented members of the Authors Guild come to >> understand the potential negative impact of disabling the text-to- >> speech >> function on their e-books and reconsider their position." >> >> >> >> Cynthia D. Waddell, executive director of the International Center >> for >> Disability Resources on the Internet (ICDRI), said: "The mission >> of ICDRI >> supports the removal of barriers in electronic and information >> technology >> and the promotion of equal access. ICDRI welcomes the text-to-speech >> functionality being offered by the Kindle 2 since it increases >> mainstream >> access to books for the first time in history. We question why the >> Authors >> Guild demands that it be turned it off since many more books would >> be sold >> if text-to-speech was turned back on. Not only >> >> does this feature benefit persons with disabilities, but it also >> helps >> persons for whom English is not their native language. In an >> increasingly >> mobile society, flexibility in access to content improves the >> quality of >> life for everyone." >> >> >> >> James Love, director of Knowledge Ecology International, said: >> "Knowing >> full well that not everyone can see, the Authors Guild wants the >> right to be >> seen, but not heard. By bullying Amazon to change the technology >> of Kindle >> 2, the Authors Guild will either deny access to people who are >> disabled, or >> make them pay more. By attacking disabled persons in this way, the >> Authors >> Guild is attacking everyone who would otherwise benefit from the >> contributions this community has the potential to offer." >> >> >> >> James H. Wendorf, executive director for the National Center for >> Learning >> Disabilities, said: "Access to the written word is the cornerstone of >> education and democracy. New technologies must serve individuals >> with >> disabilities, not impede them. Our homes, schools and ultimately our >> economy rely on support for the future, not discriminating >> practices and >> beliefs from the past." >> >> While the Kindle 2 is not currently accessible to blind users, Amazon >> recently announced on its Kindle 2 blog that it is currently at >> work on >> making the device's navigational features accessible to the blind. >> >> >> >> The coalition includes: American Association of People with >> Disabilities, >> American Council of the Blind, American Foundation for the Blind, >> Association on Higher Education and Disability, Bazelon Center for >> Mental >> Health Law, Burton Blatt Institute, Digital Accessible Information >> System >> (DAISY) Consortium, Disability Rights Education and Defense Fund >> (DREDF), >> IDEAL Group, Inc., International Center for Disability Resources on >> the >> Internet, International Dyslexia Association, International Dyslexia >> Association--New York Branch, Knowledge Ecology International, >> Learning >> Disabilities Association of America, National Center for Learning >> Disabilities, National Disability Rights Network, National >> Federation of the >> Blind, NISH, and the National Spinal Cord Injury Association. In >> addition >> to the April 7 New York City protest, the coalition will >> participate in the >> Los Angeles Times Festival of Books on April 25-26. >> >> >> >> ### >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mikefry79%40gmail. com >> > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/everett%40zufelt.c a _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail. com From everett at zufelt.ca Tue Mar 31 01:02:07 2009 From: everett at zufelt.ca (E.J. Zufelt) Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2009 22:02:07 -0300 Subject: [blindlaw] Fw: Reading Rights Coalition Urges Authors to Allow Everyone Access to E-books In-Reply-To: References: <40DB1C3BA7A1407E83E3E7A85D0E24FE@labarre> <8c58e54a0903301021m44094b44q5bcb7e72ab209a59@mail.gmail.com> <02D7D05D-7EE8-4D75-A7F1-05A1096E94B4@zufelt.ca> Message-ID: <350259D0-F452-4768-AB76-04A29D84F0C3@zufelt.ca> Good evening, One part of the argument was that: "The Guilds position is immoral since it is infringes on human rights and dignity because it exploits, for profit, a vulnerable minority > >> of the population. Requiring the disabled to 'register' - like >> some kind >> of inferior animal - in order to use new, free, and innovative text- >> to-speech technology...". Understandably Bookshare.org is not for profit, however, the strongest words in the above citation are related to having to "...register' - like some kind of inferior animal...". If the registration requirement for one service is acceptable how can the registration requirement for a similar, but recognizably different, service been seen as treating people like "inferior animals"? I agree that a method needs to be found to accommodate the needs of all involved and to respect all current laws and the right of access to information for the text-impaired population. However, the "inferior animals" argument does not seem to have much foundation in the facts. Perhaps the best solution is to require digital media distributors to leave their publications unlocked for all readers, to ensure the most open access to information for the text-impaired, "inferior animals" does not seem to add any weight to the legal argument on either side of this issue. Thanks, Everett On 30-Mar-09, at 9:11 PM, Rod Alcidonis wrote: > I can't tell you how much I hate it when a legal issue is seriously > being > debated on this list and someone comes along with a statement that > is at > best, uninformed. The current issue is not even close to a bookshare > situation. I am afraid that this listserv might soon loses its > character > as a legal forum for blind legal professionals. Sad. > > Rod Alcidonis > Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009. > Roger Williams University School of Law > 10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 > Bristol, RI 02809 > Home: (401) 824-8685 > Cell: (718) 704-4651 > E-mail: roddj12 at hotmail.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw- > bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of E.J. Zufelt > Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 6:15 PM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Fw: Reading Rights Coalition Urges Authors > to Allow > Everyone Access to E-books > > Is it immoral for Bookshare to require registration aswell? > > Everett > > > On 30-Mar-09, at 2:21 PM, Michael Fry wrote: > >> It is awesome that so many organizations are coalescing around such >> a noble >> and worthy cause. >> >> The Guilds position is immoral since it is infringes on human rights >> and dignity because it exploits, for profit, a vulnerable minority >> of the >> population. Requiring the disabled to 'register' - like some kind >> of inferior animal - in order to use new, free, and >> innovative text-to-speech technology places an unnecessary obstacle >> in path >> of people with disablities. This obstacle is desgined solely to >> exploit >> money from people without the time or inclination or, who are too >> embarrassed to register, as a text disabled individuals. They are >> attempting to bully extra profits out of people with disabilities. >> The >> Guild, comprised of enlightened and educated individuals, should be >> ashamed >> since there is no explanation other than immoral greed for their >> position. >> >> >> On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 9:16 AM, Scott C. LaBarre >> wrote: >> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: Freeh, Jessica >>> To: Alpidio Rolon ; Amy Buresh ; Anil Lewis ; Art Schreiber ; Beth >>> Rival ; >>> Bob Kresmer ; Carl Jacobsen ; Cathy Jackson ; Charlene Smyth ; >>> Christine G. >>> Hall ; Daniel Burke ; David Ticchi ; Don Galloway ; Donna Wood ; >>> Elsie Lamp >>> ; Frank Lee ; Franklin Shiner ; Fred Schroeder ; Fred Wurtzel ; >>> Gary Ray ; >>> Gary Wunder ; J.W. Smith ; James Antonacci ; James Broadnax ; >>> Jennelle >>> Bichler ; Jennifer Dunnam ; Jerree Harris ; Joe Ruffalo ; John >>> Batron ; John >>> Fritz ; Joyce Scanlan ; Kathy Davis ; Ken Rollman ; Kevan Worley ; >>> Marie >>> Johnson ; Mary Willows ; Melissa Riccobono ; Michael Barber ; >>> Michael >>> Freeman ; Nani Fife ; Pam Allen ; Parnell Diggs ; Patti Chang ; >>> Richard >>> Bennett ; Richard Gaffney ; Ron Brown ; Ron Gardner ; Sam Gleese ; >>> Scott >>> LaBarre ; Selena Sundling-Crawford ; Steven Priddle ; Terri Rupp ; >>> Tommy >>> Craig >>> Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 7:09 AM >>> Subject: Reading Rights Coalition Urges Authors to Allow Everyone >>> Access to >>> E-books >>> >>> >>> FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE >>> >>> >>> CONTACT: >>> >>> Chris Danielsen >>> >>> Director of Public Relations >>> >>> National Federation of the Blind >>> >>> (410) 659-9314, ext. 2330 >>> >>> (410) 262-1281 (Cell) >>> cdanielsen at nfb.org >>> >>> >>> >>> Reading Rights Coalition Urges Authors to Allow >>> Everyone Access to E-books >>> >>> >>> >>> Informational Protest to be Held at Authors Guild Headquarters >>> >>> >>> >>> New York City (March 30, 2009): The Reading Rights Coalition, which >>> represents people who cannot read print, will protest the >>> threatened removal >>> of the text-to-speech function from e-books for the Amazon Kindle 2 >>> outside >>> the Authors Guild headquarters in New York City at 31 East 32nd >>> Street on >>> April 7, 2009, from noon to 2:00 p.m. The coalition includes the >>> blind, >>> people with dyslexia, people with learning or processing issues, >>> seniors >>> losing vision, people with spinal cord injuries, people recovering >>> from >>> strokes, and many others for whom the addition of text-to-speech on >>> the >>> Kindle 2 promised for the first time easy, mainstream access to >>> over 245,000 >>> books. >>> >>> >>> >>> When Amazon released the Kindle 2 electronic book reader on >>> February 9, >>> 2009, the company announced that the device would be able to read e- >>> books >>> aloud using text-to-speech technology. Under pressure from the >>> Authors >>> Guild, Amazon has announced that it will give authors and >>> publishers the >>> ability to disable the text-to-speech function on any or all of >>> their >>> e-books available for the Kindle 2. >>> >>> >>> >>> Dr. Marc Maurer, President of the National Federation of the Blind, >>> said: >>> "The blind and print-disabled have for years utilized text-to-speech >>> technology to read and access information. As technology advances >>> and more >>> books move from hard-copy print to electronic formats, people with >>> print >>> disabilities have for the first time in history the opportunity to >>> enjoy >>> access to books on an equal basis with those who can read print. >>> Authors >>> and publishers who elect to disable text-to-speech for their e- >>> books on the >>> Kindle 2 prevent people who are blind or have >>> >>> other print disabilities from reading these e-books. This is >>> blatant >>> discrimination and we will not tolerate it." >>> >>> >>> >>> Mike Shuttic, president of the Association on Higher Education and >>> Disability (AHEAD), said: "AHEAD envisions educational and societal >>> environments that value disability and embody equality of >>> opportunity. This >>> vision of AHEAD is directly aligned with the efforts of this >>> coalition. >>> Although much rhetoric is made about potential obstacles and >>> problems that >>> exist, the basic goal is clear and simple--access for everyone. >>> And why >>> create something that prevents it?" >>> >>> >>> >>> Mitch Pomerantz, president of the American Council of the Blind, >>> said: >>> "Removing the text-to-speech features closes the door on an >>> innovative >>> technological solution that would make regular print books >>> available to tens >>> of thousands of individuals who are blind or visually impaired." >>> >>> >>> >>> Andrew Imparato, President and Chief Executive Officer for the >>> American >>> Association of People with Disabilities (AAPD), said: "It is >>> outrageous when >>> a technology device shuts out people with all kinds of >>> disabilities. AAPD >>> works to remove barriers to accessibility and usability in >>> technology, and >>> we don't expect to see people with disabilities singled out by >>> having to pay >>> more for access. New technologies, such as electronic books, >>> should be >>> available to everyone regardless of disability." >>> >>> Paul Schroeder, vice president of programs and policy for the >>> American >>> Foundation for the Blind, said: "Those of us with print >>> disabilities have >>> long dreamed of a world in which books and media are available to >>> us at the >>> same time as everyone else. The Kindle 2 offers that possibility >>> for the >>> first time. We hope publishers and authors come to see that text- >>> to-speech >>> is simply an alternative means of access to print." >>> >>> Dr. Peter Blanck, chairman and university professor at Burton Blatt >>> Institute at Syracuse University, said: "As electronic books become >>> the >>> norm, denying universal access will result in more and more people >>> with >>> disabilities being left out of education, employment, and the >>> societal >>> conversation. We will all suffer from the absence of their >>> participation >>> and contribution to the debates that occupy us as a society." >>> >>> >>> >>> George Kerscher of the Digital Accessible Information System (DAISY) >>> Consortium, said: "The DAISY Consortium envisions a world where >>> people with >>> print disabilities have equal access to information and knowledge, >>> without >>> delay or additional expense. Authors and publishers surely must >>> share this >>> vision. Now that the issue of human rights has been explained, and >>> the >>> opportunity for larger sales are known, I urge the Authors Guild to >>> reverse >>> their position on text-to-speech and join us in actively >>> encouraging all >>> publishers and reading technology developers to open the world of >>> reading to >>> everybody. Authors, join us on the picket line." >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Steve Jacobs, president of IDEAL Group Inc., said, "Not only is >>> text-to-speech important to people who are blind, it is critical in >>> providing quality educations to millions of young people who rely on >>> text-to-speech to learn effectively. This includes students with >>> autism, >>> learning disabilities, mobility disabilities, and cognitive >>> disabilities >>> that impact their ability to acquire information with their eyes >>> only. I >>> remain hopeful that the talented members of the Authors Guild come >>> to >>> understand the potential negative impact of disabling the text-to- >>> speech >>> function on their e-books and reconsider their position." >>> >>> >>> >>> Cynthia D. Waddell, executive director of the International Center >>> for >>> Disability Resources on the Internet (ICDRI), said: "The mission >>> of ICDRI >>> supports the removal of barriers in electronic and information >>> technology >>> and the promotion of equal access. ICDRI welcomes the text-to- >>> speech >>> functionality being offered by the Kindle 2 since it increases >>> mainstream >>> access to books for the first time in history. We question why the >>> Authors >>> Guild demands that it be turned it off since many more books would >>> be sold >>> if text-to-speech was turned back on. Not only >>> >>> does this feature benefit persons with disabilities, but it also >>> helps >>> persons for whom English is not their native language. In an >>> increasingly >>> mobile society, flexibility in access to content improves the >>> quality of >>> life for everyone." >>> >>> >>> >>> James Love, director of Knowledge Ecology International, said: >>> "Knowing >>> full well that not everyone can see, the Authors Guild wants the >>> right to be >>> seen, but not heard. By bullying Amazon to change the technology >>> of Kindle >>> 2, the Authors Guild will either deny access to people who are >>> disabled, or >>> make them pay more. By attacking disabled persons in this way, the >>> Authors >>> Guild is attacking everyone who would otherwise benefit from the >>> contributions this community has the potential to offer." >>> >>> >>> >>> James H. Wendorf, executive director for the National Center for >>> Learning >>> Disabilities, said: "Access to the written word is the cornerstone >>> of >>> education and democracy. New technologies must serve individuals >>> with >>> disabilities, not impede them. Our homes, schools and ultimately >>> our >>> economy rely on support for the future, not discriminating >>> practices and >>> beliefs from the past." >>> >>> While the Kindle 2 is not currently accessible to blind users, >>> Amazon >>> recently announced on its Kindle 2 blog that it is currently at >>> work on >>> making the device's navigational features accessible to the blind. >>> >>> >>> >>> The coalition includes: American Association of People with >>> Disabilities, >>> American Council of the Blind, American Foundation for the Blind, >>> Association on Higher Education and Disability, Bazelon Center for >>> Mental >>> Health Law, Burton Blatt Institute, Digital Accessible Information >>> System >>> (DAISY) Consortium, Disability Rights Education and Defense Fund >>> (DREDF), >>> IDEAL Group, Inc., International Center for Disability Resources on >>> the >>> Internet, International Dyslexia Association, International Dyslexia >>> Association--New York Branch, Knowledge Ecology International, >>> Learning >>> Disabilities Association of America, National Center for Learning >>> Disabilities, National Disability Rights Network, National >>> Federation of the >>> Blind, NISH, and the National Spinal Cord Injury Association. In >>> addition >>> to the April 7 New York City protest, the coalition will >>> participate in the >>> Los Angeles Times Festival of Books on April 25-26. >>> >>> >>> >>> ### >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> blindlaw: >>> >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mikefry79%40gmail > . > com >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/everett%40zufelt.c > a > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail > . > com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/everett%40zufelt.ca From cdanielsen8 at aol.com Tue Mar 31 01:12:57 2009 From: cdanielsen8 at aol.com (Chris Danielsen) Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2009 21:12:57 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Fw: Reading Rights Coalition Urges Authors to AllowEveryone Access to E-books In-Reply-To: <7556b95a0903301147s5ef9d3b9ubf43957bd3e1787d@mail.gmail.com> References: <40DB1C3BA7A1407E83E3E7A85D0E24FE@labarre><8c58e54a0903301021m44094b44q5bcb7e72ab209a59@mail.gmail.com> <7556b95a0903301147s5ef9d3b9ubf43957bd3e1787d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <682E6BAAC17F4FE29F65138991E41E72@Scorpio13> The NFB has communicated directly with the Authors Guild. They have told us that they are willing for the TTS to be turned on for the disabled and no one else if there is a national registry of those with print disabilities. When we told them that this is unacceptable, they suggested that those who want to have books read aloud should pay a surcharge. Chris -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Shane D Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 2:48 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Fw: Reading Rights Coalition Urges Authors to AllowEveryone Access to E-books I may have missed it, but where did you come up with the registering and paying extra? The issue is that they can just turn off the reading for all. On 3/30/09, Michael Fry wrote: > It is awesome that so many organizations are coalescing around such a noble > and worthy cause. > > The Guilds position is immoral since it is infringes on human rights > and dignity because it exploits, for profit, a vulnerable minority of the > population. Requiring the disabled to 'register' - like some kind > of inferior animal - in order to use new, free, and > innovative text-to-speech technology places an unnecessary obstacle in path > of people with disablities. This obstacle is desgined solely to exploit > money from people without the time or inclination or, who are too > embarrassed to register, as a text disabled individuals. They are > attempting to bully extra profits out of people with disabilities. The > Guild, comprised of enlightened and educated individuals, should be ashamed > since there is no explanation other than immoral greed for their position. > > > On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 9:16 AM, Scott C. LaBarre > wrote: > >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Freeh, Jessica >> To: Alpidio Rolon ; Amy Buresh ; Anil Lewis ; Art Schreiber ; Beth Rival ; >> Bob Kresmer ; Carl Jacobsen ; Cathy Jackson ; Charlene Smyth ; Christine >> G. >> Hall ; Daniel Burke ; David Ticchi ; Don Galloway ; Donna Wood ; Elsie >> Lamp >> ; Frank Lee ; Franklin Shiner ; Fred Schroeder ; Fred Wurtzel ; Gary Ray ; >> Gary Wunder ; J.W. Smith ; James Antonacci ; James Broadnax ; Jennelle >> Bichler ; Jennifer Dunnam ; Jerree Harris ; Joe Ruffalo ; John Batron ; >> John >> Fritz ; Joyce Scanlan ; Kathy Davis ; Ken Rollman ; Kevan Worley ; Marie >> Johnson ; Mary Willows ; Melissa Riccobono ; Michael Barber ; Michael >> Freeman ; Nani Fife ; Pam Allen ; Parnell Diggs ; Patti Chang ; Richard >> Bennett ; Richard Gaffney ; Ron Brown ; Ron Gardner ; Sam Gleese ; Scott >> LaBarre ; Selena Sundling-Crawford ; Steven Priddle ; Terri Rupp ; Tommy >> Craig >> Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 7:09 AM >> Subject: Reading Rights Coalition Urges Authors to Allow Everyone Access >> to >> E-books >> >> >> FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE >> >> >> CONTACT: >> >> Chris Danielsen >> >> Director of Public Relations >> >> National Federation of the Blind >> >> (410) 659-9314, ext. 2330 >> >> (410) 262-1281 (Cell) >> cdanielsen at nfb.org >> >> >> >> Reading Rights Coalition Urges Authors to Allow >> Everyone Access to E-books >> >> >> >> Informational Protest to be Held at Authors Guild Headquarters >> >> >> >> New York City (March 30, 2009): The Reading Rights Coalition, which >> represents people who cannot read print, will protest the threatened >> removal >> of the text-to-speech function from e-books for the Amazon Kindle 2 >> outside >> the Authors Guild headquarters in New York City at 31 East 32nd Street on >> April 7, 2009, from noon to 2:00 p.m. The coalition includes the blind, >> people with dyslexia, people with learning or processing issues, seniors >> losing vision, people with spinal cord injuries, people recovering from >> strokes, and many others for whom the addition of text-to-speech on the >> Kindle 2 promised for the first time easy, mainstream access to over >> 245,000 >> books. >> >> >> >> When Amazon released the Kindle 2 electronic book reader on February 9, >> 2009, the company announced that the device would be able to read e-books >> aloud using text-to-speech technology. Under pressure from the Authors >> Guild, Amazon has announced that it will give authors and publishers the >> ability to disable the text-to-speech function on any or all of their >> e-books available for the Kindle 2. >> >> >> >> Dr. Marc Maurer, President of the National Federation of the Blind, said: >> "The blind and print-disabled have for years utilized text-to-speech >> technology to read and access information. As technology advances and >> more >> books move from hard-copy print to electronic formats, people with print >> disabilities have for the first time in history the opportunity to enjoy >> access to books on an equal basis with those who can read print. Authors >> and publishers who elect to disable text-to-speech for their e-books on >> the >> Kindle 2 prevent people who are blind or have >> >> other print disabilities from reading these e-books. This is blatant >> discrimination and we will not tolerate it." >> >> >> >> Mike Shuttic, president of the Association on Higher Education and >> Disability (AHEAD), said: "AHEAD envisions educational and societal >> environments that value disability and embody equality of opportunity. >> This >> vision of AHEAD is directly aligned with the efforts of this coalition. >> Although much rhetoric is made about potential obstacles and problems >> that >> exist, the basic goal is clear and simple--access for everyone. And why >> create something that prevents it?" >> >> >> >> Mitch Pomerantz, president of the American Council of the Blind, said: >> "Removing the text-to-speech features closes the door on an innovative >> technological solution that would make regular print books available to >> tens >> of thousands of individuals who are blind or visually impaired." >> >> >> >> Andrew Imparato, President and Chief Executive Officer for the American >> Association of People with Disabilities (AAPD), said: "It is outrageous >> when >> a technology device shuts out people with all kinds of disabilities. AAPD >> works to remove barriers to accessibility and usability in technology, and >> we don't expect to see people with disabilities singled out by having to >> pay >> more for access. New technologies, such as electronic books, should be >> available to everyone regardless of disability." >> >> Paul Schroeder, vice president of programs and policy for the American >> Foundation for the Blind, said: "Those of us with print disabilities have >> long dreamed of a world in which books and media are available to us at >> the >> same time as everyone else. The Kindle 2 offers that possibility for the >> first time. We hope publishers and authors come to see that >> text-to-speech >> is simply an alternative means of access to print." >> >> Dr. Peter Blanck, chairman and university professor at Burton Blatt >> Institute at Syracuse University, said: "As electronic books become the >> norm, denying universal access will result in more and more people with >> disabilities being left out of education, employment, and the societal >> conversation. We will all suffer from the absence of their participation >> and contribution to the debates that occupy us as a society." >> >> >> >> George Kerscher of the Digital Accessible Information System (DAISY) >> Consortium, said: "The DAISY Consortium envisions a world where people >> with >> print disabilities have equal access to information and knowledge, without >> delay or additional expense. Authors and publishers surely must share >> this >> vision. Now that the issue of human rights has been explained, and the >> opportunity for larger sales are known, I urge the Authors Guild to >> reverse >> their position on text-to-speech and join us in actively encouraging all >> publishers and reading technology developers to open the world of reading >> to >> everybody. Authors, join us on the picket line." >> >> >> >> >> >> Steve Jacobs, president of IDEAL Group Inc., said, "Not only is >> text-to-speech important to people who are blind, it is critical in >> providing quality educations to millions of young people who rely on >> text-to-speech to learn effectively. This includes students with autism, >> learning disabilities, mobility disabilities, and cognitive disabilities >> that impact their ability to acquire information with their eyes only. I >> remain hopeful that the talented members of the Authors Guild come to >> understand the potential negative impact of disabling the text-to-speech >> function on their e-books and reconsider their position." >> >> >> >> Cynthia D. Waddell, executive director of the International Center for >> Disability Resources on the Internet (ICDRI), said: "The mission of ICDRI >> supports the removal of barriers in electronic and information technology >> and the promotion of equal access. ICDRI welcomes the text-to-speech >> functionality being offered by the Kindle 2 since it increases mainstream >> access to books for the first time in history. We question why the >> Authors >> Guild demands that it be turned it off since many more books would be sold >> if text-to-speech was turned back on. Not only >> >> does this feature benefit persons with disabilities, but it also helps >> persons for whom English is not their native language. In an increasingly >> mobile society, flexibility in access to content improves the quality of >> life for everyone." >> >> >> >> James Love, director of Knowledge Ecology International, said: "Knowing >> full well that not everyone can see, the Authors Guild wants the right to >> be >> seen, but not heard. By bullying Amazon to change the technology of >> Kindle >> 2, the Authors Guild will either deny access to people who are disabled, >> or >> make them pay more. By attacking disabled persons in this way, the >> Authors >> Guild is attacking everyone who would otherwise benefit from the >> contributions this community has the potential to offer." >> >> >> >> James H. Wendorf, executive director for the National Center for Learning >> Disabilities, said: "Access to the written word is the cornerstone of >> education and democracy. New technologies must serve individuals with >> disabilities, not impede them. Our homes, schools and ultimately our >> economy rely on support for the future, not discriminating practices and >> beliefs from the past." >> >> While the Kindle 2 is not currently accessible to blind users, Amazon >> recently announced on its Kindle 2 blog that it is currently at work on >> making the device's navigational features accessible to the blind. >> >> >> >> The coalition includes: American Association of People with Disabilities, >> American Council of the Blind, American Foundation for the Blind, >> Association on Higher Education and Disability, Bazelon Center for Mental >> Health Law, Burton Blatt Institute, Digital Accessible Information System >> (DAISY) Consortium, Disability Rights Education and Defense Fund (DREDF), >> IDEAL Group, Inc., International Center for Disability Resources on the >> Internet, International Dyslexia Association, International Dyslexia >> Association--New York Branch, Knowledge Ecology International, Learning >> Disabilities Association of America, National Center for Learning >> Disabilities, National Disability Rights Network, National Federation of >> the >> Blind, NISH, and the National Spinal Cord Injury Association. In addition >> to the April 7 New York City protest, the coalition will participate in >> the >> Los Angeles Times Festival of Books on April 25-26. >> >> >> >> ### >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mikefry79%40gmail. com >> > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/chatter8712%40gmai l.com > -- -Shane Website: http://www.blind-geek.com AIM: inhaddict MSN: shane at blind-geek.com Skype: chatter8712 Twitter: blind_geek _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3976 (20090330) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3976 (20090330) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From cdanielsen8 at aol.com Tue Mar 31 01:17:12 2009 From: cdanielsen8 at aol.com (Chris Danielsen) Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2009 21:17:12 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Fw: Reading Rights Coalition Urges Authors to AllowEveryone Access to E-books In-Reply-To: <02D7D05D-7EE8-4D75-A7F1-05A1096E94B4@zufelt.ca> References: <40DB1C3BA7A1407E83E3E7A85D0E24FE@labarre><8c58e54a0903301021m44094b44q5bcb7e72ab209a59@mail.gmail.com> <02D7D05D-7EE8-4D75-A7F1-05A1096E94B4@zufelt.ca> Message-ID: <3632128BE00345E7A3A982C3407FA5DC@Scorpio13> With Bookshare, you're not paying for the books you download. By contrast, if I buy a book like everyone else, it's nobody's business how I read it or why I'm reading it that way. Chris -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of E.J. Zufelt Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 6:15 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Fw: Reading Rights Coalition Urges Authors to AllowEveryone Access to E-books Is it immoral for Bookshare to require registration aswell? Everett On 30-Mar-09, at 2:21 PM, Michael Fry wrote: > It is awesome that so many organizations are coalescing around such > a noble > and worthy cause. > > The Guilds position is immoral since it is infringes on human rights > and dignity because it exploits, for profit, a vulnerable minority > of the > population. Requiring the disabled to 'register' - like some kind > of inferior animal - in order to use new, free, and > innovative text-to-speech technology places an unnecessary obstacle > in path > of people with disablities. This obstacle is desgined solely to > exploit > money from people without the time or inclination or, who are too > embarrassed to register, as a text disabled individuals. They are > attempting to bully extra profits out of people with disabilities. > The > Guild, comprised of enlightened and educated individuals, should be > ashamed > since there is no explanation other than immoral greed for their > position. > > > On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 9:16 AM, Scott C. LaBarre > wrote: > >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Freeh, Jessica >> To: Alpidio Rolon ; Amy Buresh ; Anil Lewis ; Art Schreiber ; Beth >> Rival ; >> Bob Kresmer ; Carl Jacobsen ; Cathy Jackson ; Charlene Smyth ; >> Christine G. >> Hall ; Daniel Burke ; David Ticchi ; Don Galloway ; Donna Wood ; >> Elsie Lamp >> ; Frank Lee ; Franklin Shiner ; Fred Schroeder ; Fred Wurtzel ; >> Gary Ray ; >> Gary Wunder ; J.W. Smith ; James Antonacci ; James Broadnax ; >> Jennelle >> Bichler ; Jennifer Dunnam ; Jerree Harris ; Joe Ruffalo ; John >> Batron ; John >> Fritz ; Joyce Scanlan ; Kathy Davis ; Ken Rollman ; Kevan Worley ; >> Marie >> Johnson ; Mary Willows ; Melissa Riccobono ; Michael Barber ; Michael >> Freeman ; Nani Fife ; Pam Allen ; Parnell Diggs ; Patti Chang ; >> Richard >> Bennett ; Richard Gaffney ; Ron Brown ; Ron Gardner ; Sam Gleese ; >> Scott >> LaBarre ; Selena Sundling-Crawford ; Steven Priddle ; Terri Rupp ; >> Tommy >> Craig >> Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 7:09 AM >> Subject: Reading Rights Coalition Urges Authors to Allow Everyone >> Access to >> E-books >> >> >> FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE >> >> >> CONTACT: >> >> Chris Danielsen >> >> Director of Public Relations >> >> National Federation of the Blind >> >> (410) 659-9314, ext. 2330 >> >> (410) 262-1281 (Cell) >> cdanielsen at nfb.org >> >> >> >> Reading Rights Coalition Urges Authors to Allow >> Everyone Access to E-books >> >> >> >> Informational Protest to be Held at Authors Guild Headquarters >> >> >> >> New York City (March 30, 2009): The Reading Rights Coalition, which >> represents people who cannot read print, will protest the >> threatened removal >> of the text-to-speech function from e-books for the Amazon Kindle 2 >> outside >> the Authors Guild headquarters in New York City at 31 East 32nd >> Street on >> April 7, 2009, from noon to 2:00 p.m. The coalition includes the >> blind, >> people with dyslexia, people with learning or processing issues, >> seniors >> losing vision, people with spinal cord injuries, people recovering >> from >> strokes, and many others for whom the addition of text-to-speech on >> the >> Kindle 2 promised for the first time easy, mainstream access to >> over 245,000 >> books. >> >> >> >> When Amazon released the Kindle 2 electronic book reader on >> February 9, >> 2009, the company announced that the device would be able to read e- >> books >> aloud using text-to-speech technology. Under pressure from the >> Authors >> Guild, Amazon has announced that it will give authors and >> publishers the >> ability to disable the text-to-speech function on any or all of their >> e-books available for the Kindle 2. >> >> >> >> Dr. Marc Maurer, President of the National Federation of the Blind, >> said: >> "The blind and print-disabled have for years utilized text-to-speech >> technology to read and access information. As technology advances >> and more >> books move from hard-copy print to electronic formats, people with >> print >> disabilities have for the first time in history the opportunity to >> enjoy >> access to books on an equal basis with those who can read print. >> Authors >> and publishers who elect to disable text-to-speech for their e- >> books on the >> Kindle 2 prevent people who are blind or have >> >> other print disabilities from reading these e-books. This is blatant >> discrimination and we will not tolerate it." >> >> >> >> Mike Shuttic, president of the Association on Higher Education and >> Disability (AHEAD), said: "AHEAD envisions educational and societal >> environments that value disability and embody equality of >> opportunity. This >> vision of AHEAD is directly aligned with the efforts of this >> coalition. >> Although much rhetoric is made about potential obstacles and >> problems that >> exist, the basic goal is clear and simple--access for everyone. >> And why >> create something that prevents it?" >> >> >> >> Mitch Pomerantz, president of the American Council of the Blind, >> said: >> "Removing the text-to-speech features closes the door on an >> innovative >> technological solution that would make regular print books >> available to tens >> of thousands of individuals who are blind or visually impaired." >> >> >> >> Andrew Imparato, President and Chief Executive Officer for the >> American >> Association of People with Disabilities (AAPD), said: "It is >> outrageous when >> a technology device shuts out people with all kinds of >> disabilities. AAPD >> works to remove barriers to accessibility and usability in >> technology, and >> we don't expect to see people with disabilities singled out by >> having to pay >> more for access. New technologies, such as electronic books, >> should be >> available to everyone regardless of disability." >> >> Paul Schroeder, vice president of programs and policy for the >> American >> Foundation for the Blind, said: "Those of us with print >> disabilities have >> long dreamed of a world in which books and media are available to >> us at the >> same time as everyone else. The Kindle 2 offers that possibility >> for the >> first time. We hope publishers and authors come to see that text- >> to-speech >> is simply an alternative means of access to print." >> >> Dr. Peter Blanck, chairman and university professor at Burton Blatt >> Institute at Syracuse University, said: "As electronic books become >> the >> norm, denying universal access will result in more and more people >> with >> disabilities being left out of education, employment, and the >> societal >> conversation. We will all suffer from the absence of their >> participation >> and contribution to the debates that occupy us as a society." >> >> >> >> George Kerscher of the Digital Accessible Information System (DAISY) >> Consortium, said: "The DAISY Consortium envisions a world where >> people with >> print disabilities have equal access to information and knowledge, >> without >> delay or additional expense. Authors and publishers surely must >> share this >> vision. Now that the issue of human rights has been explained, and >> the >> opportunity for larger sales are known, I urge the Authors Guild to >> reverse >> their position on text-to-speech and join us in actively >> encouraging all >> publishers and reading technology developers to open the world of >> reading to >> everybody. Authors, join us on the picket line." >> >> >> >> >> >> Steve Jacobs, president of IDEAL Group Inc., said, "Not only is >> text-to-speech important to people who are blind, it is critical in >> providing quality educations to millions of young people who rely on >> text-to-speech to learn effectively. This includes students with >> autism, >> learning disabilities, mobility disabilities, and cognitive >> disabilities >> that impact their ability to acquire information with their eyes >> only. I >> remain hopeful that the talented members of the Authors Guild come to >> understand the potential negative impact of disabling the text-to- >> speech >> function on their e-books and reconsider their position." >> >> >> >> Cynthia D. Waddell, executive director of the International Center >> for >> Disability Resources on the Internet (ICDRI), said: "The mission >> of ICDRI >> supports the removal of barriers in electronic and information >> technology >> and the promotion of equal access. ICDRI welcomes the text-to-speech >> functionality being offered by the Kindle 2 since it increases >> mainstream >> access to books for the first time in history. We question why the >> Authors >> Guild demands that it be turned it off since many more books would >> be sold >> if text-to-speech was turned back on. Not only >> >> does this feature benefit persons with disabilities, but it also >> helps >> persons for whom English is not their native language. In an >> increasingly >> mobile society, flexibility in access to content improves the >> quality of >> life for everyone." >> >> >> >> James Love, director of Knowledge Ecology International, said: >> "Knowing >> full well that not everyone can see, the Authors Guild wants the >> right to be >> seen, but not heard. By bullying Amazon to change the technology >> of Kindle >> 2, the Authors Guild will either deny access to people who are >> disabled, or >> make them pay more. By attacking disabled persons in this way, the >> Authors >> Guild is attacking everyone who would otherwise benefit from the >> contributions this community has the potential to offer." >> >> >> >> James H. Wendorf, executive director for the National Center for >> Learning >> Disabilities, said: "Access to the written word is the cornerstone of >> education and democracy. New technologies must serve individuals >> with >> disabilities, not impede them. Our homes, schools and ultimately our >> economy rely on support for the future, not discriminating >> practices and >> beliefs from the past." >> >> While the Kindle 2 is not currently accessible to blind users, Amazon >> recently announced on its Kindle 2 blog that it is currently at >> work on >> making the device's navigational features accessible to the blind. >> >> >> >> The coalition includes: American Association of People with >> Disabilities, >> American Council of the Blind, American Foundation for the Blind, >> Association on Higher Education and Disability, Bazelon Center for >> Mental >> Health Law, Burton Blatt Institute, Digital Accessible Information >> System >> (DAISY) Consortium, Disability Rights Education and Defense Fund >> (DREDF), >> IDEAL Group, Inc., International Center for Disability Resources on >> the >> Internet, International Dyslexia Association, International Dyslexia >> Association--New York Branch, Knowledge Ecology International, >> Learning >> Disabilities Association of America, National Center for Learning >> Disabilities, National Disability Rights Network, National >> Federation of the >> Blind, NISH, and the National Spinal Cord Injury Association. In >> addition >> to the April 7 New York City protest, the coalition will >> participate in the >> Los Angeles Times Festival of Books on April 25-26. >> >> >> >> ### >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mikefry79%40gmail. com >> > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/everett%40zufelt.c a _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3976 (20090330) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3976 (20090330) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From timandvickie at hotmail.com Tue Mar 31 01:31:14 2009 From: timandvickie at hotmail.com (Tim Shaw) Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2009 01:31:14 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] Fw: Reading Rights Coalition Urges Authors to AllowEveryone Access to E-books In-Reply-To: <682E6BAAC17F4FE29F65138991E41E72@Scorpio13> References: <40DB1C3BA7A1407E83E3E7A85D0E24FE@labarre><8c58e54a0903301021m44094b44q5bcb7e72ab209a59@mail.gmail.com> <7556b95a0903301147s5ef9d3b9ubf43957bd3e1787d@mail.gmail.com> <682E6BAAC17F4FE29F65138991E41E72@Scorpio13> Message-ID: i dont think the authors guild understand the xtreme differnce between listening to an audio book which is read by actors and involves studio time and what not to produce, and listening to text read by a synthesized,monotone voice > From: cdanielsen8 at aol.com > To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org > Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2009 21:12:57 -0400 > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Fw: Reading Rights Coalition Urges Authors to AllowEveryone Access to E-books > > The NFB has communicated directly with the Authors Guild. They have told us > that they are willing for the TTS to be turned on for the disabled and no > one else if there is a national registry of those with print disabilities. > When we told them that this is unacceptable, they suggested that those who > want to have books read aloud should pay a surcharge. > > Chris > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of Shane D > Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 2:48 PM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Fw: Reading Rights Coalition Urges Authors to > AllowEveryone Access to E-books > > I may have missed it, but where did you come up with the registering > and paying extra? The issue is that they can just turn off the reading > for all. > > On 3/30/09, Michael Fry wrote: > > It is awesome that so many organizations are coalescing around such a > noble > > and worthy cause. > > > > The Guilds position is immoral since it is infringes on human rights > > and dignity because it exploits, for profit, a vulnerable minority of the > > population. Requiring the disabled to 'register' - like some kind > > of inferior animal - in order to use new, free, and > > innovative text-to-speech technology places an unnecessary obstacle in > path > > of people with disablities. This obstacle is desgined solely to exploit > > money from people without the time or inclination or, who are too > > embarrassed to register, as a text disabled individuals. They are > > attempting to bully extra profits out of people with disabilities. The > > Guild, comprised of enlightened and educated individuals, should be > ashamed > > since there is no explanation other than immoral greed for their position. > > > > > > On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 9:16 AM, Scott C. LaBarre > > wrote: > > > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: Freeh, Jessica > >> To: Alpidio Rolon ; Amy Buresh ; Anil Lewis ; Art Schreiber ; Beth Rival > ; > >> Bob Kresmer ; Carl Jacobsen ; Cathy Jackson ; Charlene Smyth ; Christine > >> G. > >> Hall ; Daniel Burke ; David Ticchi ; Don Galloway ; Donna Wood ; Elsie > >> Lamp > >> ; Frank Lee ; Franklin Shiner ; Fred Schroeder ; Fred Wurtzel ; Gary Ray > ; > >> Gary Wunder ; J.W. Smith ; James Antonacci ; James Broadnax ; Jennelle > >> Bichler ; Jennifer Dunnam ; Jerree Harris ; Joe Ruffalo ; John Batron ; > >> John > >> Fritz ; Joyce Scanlan ; Kathy Davis ; Ken Rollman ; Kevan Worley ; Marie > >> Johnson ; Mary Willows ; Melissa Riccobono ; Michael Barber ; Michael > >> Freeman ; Nani Fife ; Pam Allen ; Parnell Diggs ; Patti Chang ; Richard > >> Bennett ; Richard Gaffney ; Ron Brown ; Ron Gardner ; Sam Gleese ; Scott > >> LaBarre ; Selena Sundling-Crawford ; Steven Priddle ; Terri Rupp ; Tommy > >> Craig > >> Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 7:09 AM > >> Subject: Reading Rights Coalition Urges Authors to Allow Everyone Access > >> to > >> E-books > >> > >> > >> FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE > >> > >> > >> CONTACT: > >> > >> Chris Danielsen > >> > >> Director of Public Relations > >> > >> National Federation of the Blind > >> > >> (410) 659-9314, ext. 2330 > >> > >> (410) 262-1281 (Cell) > >> cdanielsen at nfb.org > >> > >> > >> > >> Reading Rights Coalition Urges Authors to Allow > >> Everyone Access to E-books > >> > >> > >> > >> Informational Protest to be Held at Authors Guild Headquarters > >> > >> > >> > >> New York City (March 30, 2009): The Reading Rights Coalition, which > >> represents people who cannot read print, will protest the threatened > >> removal > >> of the text-to-speech function from e-books for the Amazon Kindle 2 > >> outside > >> the Authors Guild headquarters in New York City at 31 East 32nd Street on > >> April 7, 2009, from noon to 2:00 p.m. The coalition includes the blind, > >> people with dyslexia, people with learning or processing issues, seniors > >> losing vision, people with spinal cord injuries, people recovering from > >> strokes, and many others for whom the addition of text-to-speech on the > >> Kindle 2 promised for the first time easy, mainstream access to over > >> 245,000 > >> books. > >> > >> > >> > >> When Amazon released the Kindle 2 electronic book reader on February 9, > >> 2009, the company announced that the device would be able to read e-books > >> aloud using text-to-speech technology. Under pressure from the Authors > >> Guild, Amazon has announced that it will give authors and publishers the > >> ability to disable the text-to-speech function on any or all of their > >> e-books available for the Kindle 2. > >> > >> > >> > >> Dr. Marc Maurer, President of the National Federation of the Blind, said: > >> "The blind and print-disabled have for years utilized text-to-speech > >> technology to read and access information. As technology advances and > >> more > >> books move from hard-copy print to electronic formats, people with print > >> disabilities have for the first time in history the opportunity to enjoy > >> access to books on an equal basis with those who can read print. Authors > >> and publishers who elect to disable text-to-speech for their e-books on > >> the > >> Kindle 2 prevent people who are blind or have > >> > >> other print disabilities from reading these e-books. This is blatant > >> discrimination and we will not tolerate it." > >> > >> > >> > >> Mike Shuttic, president of the Association on Higher Education and > >> Disability (AHEAD), said: "AHEAD envisions educational and societal > >> environments that value disability and embody equality of opportunity. > >> This > >> vision of AHEAD is directly aligned with the efforts of this coalition. > >> Although much rhetoric is made about potential obstacles and problems > >> that > >> exist, the basic goal is clear and simple--access for everyone. And why > >> create something that prevents it?" > >> > >> > >> > >> Mitch Pomerantz, president of the American Council of the Blind, said: > >> "Removing the text-to-speech features closes the door on an innovative > >> technological solution that would make regular print books available to > >> tens > >> of thousands of individuals who are blind or visually impaired." > >> > >> > >> > >> Andrew Imparato, President and Chief Executive Officer for the American > >> Association of People with Disabilities (AAPD), said: "It is outrageous > >> when > >> a technology device shuts out people with all kinds of disabilities. > AAPD > >> works to remove barriers to accessibility and usability in technology, > and > >> we don't expect to see people with disabilities singled out by having to > >> pay > >> more for access. New technologies, such as electronic books, should be > >> available to everyone regardless of disability." > >> > >> Paul Schroeder, vice president of programs and policy for the American > >> Foundation for the Blind, said: "Those of us with print disabilities have > >> long dreamed of a world in which books and media are available to us at > >> the > >> same time as everyone else. The Kindle 2 offers that possibility for the > >> first time. We hope publishers and authors come to see that > >> text-to-speech > >> is simply an alternative means of access to print." > >> > >> Dr. Peter Blanck, chairman and university professor at Burton Blatt > >> Institute at Syracuse University, said: "As electronic books become the > >> norm, denying universal access will result in more and more people with > >> disabilities being left out of education, employment, and the societal > >> conversation. We will all suffer from the absence of their participation > >> and contribution to the debates that occupy us as a society." > >> > >> > >> > >> George Kerscher of the Digital Accessible Information System (DAISY) > >> Consortium, said: "The DAISY Consortium envisions a world where people > >> with > >> print disabilities have equal access to information and knowledge, > without > >> delay or additional expense. Authors and publishers surely must share > >> this > >> vision. Now that the issue of human rights has been explained, and the > >> opportunity for larger sales are known, I urge the Authors Guild to > >> reverse > >> their position on text-to-speech and join us in actively encouraging all > >> publishers and reading technology developers to open the world of reading > >> to > >> everybody. Authors, join us on the picket line." > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> Steve Jacobs, president of IDEAL Group Inc., said, "Not only is > >> text-to-speech important to people who are blind, it is critical in > >> providing quality educations to millions of young people who rely on > >> text-to-speech to learn effectively. This includes students with autism, > >> learning disabilities, mobility disabilities, and cognitive disabilities > >> that impact their ability to acquire information with their eyes only. I > >> remain hopeful that the talented members of the Authors Guild come to > >> understand the potential negative impact of disabling the text-to-speech > >> function on their e-books and reconsider their position." > >> > >> > >> > >> Cynthia D. Waddell, executive director of the International Center for > >> Disability Resources on the Internet (ICDRI), said: "The mission of > ICDRI > >> supports the removal of barriers in electronic and information technology > >> and the promotion of equal access. ICDRI welcomes the text-to-speech > >> functionality being offered by the Kindle 2 since it increases mainstream > >> access to books for the first time in history. We question why the > >> Authors > >> Guild demands that it be turned it off since many more books would be > sold > >> if text-to-speech was turned back on. Not only > >> > >> does this feature benefit persons with disabilities, but it also helps > >> persons for whom English is not their native language. In an > increasingly > >> mobile society, flexibility in access to content improves the quality of > >> life for everyone." > >> > >> > >> > >> James Love, director of Knowledge Ecology International, said: "Knowing > >> full well that not everyone can see, the Authors Guild wants the right to > >> be > >> seen, but not heard. By bullying Amazon to change the technology of > >> Kindle > >> 2, the Authors Guild will either deny access to people who are disabled, > >> or > >> make them pay more. By attacking disabled persons in this way, the > >> Authors > >> Guild is attacking everyone who would otherwise benefit from the > >> contributions this community has the potential to offer." > >> > >> > >> > >> James H. Wendorf, executive director for the National Center for Learning > >> Disabilities, said: "Access to the written word is the cornerstone of > >> education and democracy. New technologies must serve individuals with > >> disabilities, not impede them. Our homes, schools and ultimately our > >> economy rely on support for the future, not discriminating practices and > >> beliefs from the past." > >> > >> While the Kindle 2 is not currently accessible to blind users, Amazon > >> recently announced on its Kindle 2 blog that it is currently at work on > >> making the device's navigational features accessible to the blind. > >> > >> > >> > >> The coalition includes: American Association of People with Disabilities, > >> American Council of the Blind, American Foundation for the Blind, > >> Association on Higher Education and Disability, Bazelon Center for Mental > >> Health Law, Burton Blatt Institute, Digital Accessible Information System > >> (DAISY) Consortium, Disability Rights Education and Defense Fund (DREDF), > >> IDEAL Group, Inc., International Center for Disability Resources on the > >> Internet, International Dyslexia Association, International Dyslexia > >> Association--New York Branch, Knowledge Ecology International, Learning > >> Disabilities Association of America, National Center for Learning > >> Disabilities, National Disability Rights Network, National Federation of > >> the > >> Blind, NISH, and the National Spinal Cord Injury Association. In > addition > >> to the April 7 New York City protest, the coalition will participate in > >> the > >> Los Angeles Times Festival of Books on April 25-26. > >> > >> > >> > >> ### > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> blindlaw mailing list > >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> blindlaw: > >> > >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mikefry79%40gmail. > com > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > blindlaw mailing list > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > blindlaw: > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/chatter8712%40gmai > l.com > > > > > -- > -Shane > Website: http://www.blind-geek.com > AIM: inhaddict > MSN: shane at blind-geek.com > Skype: chatter8712 > Twitter: blind_geek > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. > com > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature > database 3976 (20090330) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature > database 3976 (20090330) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/timandvickie%40hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ Quick access to Windows Live and your favorite MSN content with Internet Explorer 8. http://ie8.msn.com/microsoft/internet-explorer-8/en-us/ie8.aspx?ocid=B037MSN55C0701A From JFreeh at nfb.org Tue Mar 31 02:03:59 2009 From: JFreeh at nfb.org (Freeh, Jessica) Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2009 21:03:59 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Reading Rights Coalition Urges Authors to Allow Everyone Access to E-books Message-ID: FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE CONTACT: Chris Danielsen Director of Public Relations National Federation of the Blind (410) 659-9314, ext. 2330 (410) 262-1281 (Cell) cdanielsen at nfb.org Reading Rights Coalition Urges Authors to Allow Everyone Access to E-books Informational Protest to be Held at Authors Guild Headquarters New York City (March 30, 2009): The Reading Rights Coalition, which represents people who cannot read print, will protest the threatened removal of the text-to-speech function from e-books for the Amazon Kindle 2 outside the Authors Guild headquarters in New York City at 31 East 32nd Street on April 7, 2009, from noon to 2:00 p.m. The coalition includes the blind, people with dyslexia, people with learning or processing issues, seniors losing vision, people with spinal cord injuries, people recovering from strokes, and many others for whom the addition of text-to-speech on the Kindle 2 promised for the first time easy, mainstream access to over 255,000 books. When Amazon released the Kindle 2 electronic book reader on February 9, 2009, the company announced that the device would be able to read e-books aloud using text-to-speech technology. Under pressure from the Authors Guild, Amazon has announced that it will give authors and publishers the ability to disable the text-to-speech function on any or all of their e-books available for the Kindle 2. Dr. Marc Maurer, President of the National Federation of the Blind, said: “The blind and print-disabled have for years utilized text-to-speech technology to read and access information. As technology advances and more books move from hard-copy print to electronic formats, people with print disabilities have for the first time in history the opportunity to enjoy access to books on an equal basis with those who can read print. Authors and publishers who elect to disable text-to-speech for their e-books on the Kindle 2 prevent people who are blind or have other print disabilities from reading these e-books. This is blatant discrimination and we will not tolerate it.” Mike Shuttic, president of the Association on Higher Education and Disability (AHEAD), said: “AHEAD envisions educational and societal environments that value disability and embody equality of opportunity. This vision of AHEAD is directly aligned with the efforts of this coalition. Although much rhetoric is made about potential obstacles and problems that exist, the basic goal is clear and simple––access for everyone. And why create something that prevents it?” Mitch Pomerantz, president of the American Council of the Blind, said: “Removing the text-to-speech features closes the door on an innovative technological solution that would make regular print books available to tens of thousands of individuals who are blind or visually impaired.” Andrew Imparato, President and Chief Executive Officer for the American Association of People with Disabilities (AAPD), said: “It is outrageous when a technology device shuts out people with all kinds of disabilities. AAPD works to remove barriers to accessibility and usability in technology, and we don't expect to see people with disabilities singled out by having to pay more for access. New technologies, such as electronic books, should be available to everyone regardless of disability.” Paul Schroeder, vice president of programs and policy for the American Foundation for the Blind, said: "Those of us with print disabilities have long dreamed of a world in which books and media are available to us at the same time as everyone else. The Kindle 2 offers that possibility for the first time. We hope publishers and authors come to see that text-to-speech is simply an alternative means of access to print." Dr. Peter Blanck, chairman and university professor at Burton Blatt Institute at Syracuse University, said: “As electronic books become the norm, denying universal access will result in more and more people with disabilities being left out of education, employment, and the societal conversation. We will all suffer from the absence of their participation and contribution to the debates that occupy us as a society.” George Kerscher of the Digital Accessible Information System (DAISY) Consortium, said: "The DAISY Consortium envisions a world where people with print disabilities have equal access to information and knowledge, without delay or additional expense. Authors and publishers surely must share this vision. Now that the issue of human rights has been explained, and the opportunity for larger sales are known, I urge the Authors Guild to reverse their position on text-to-speech and join us in actively encouraging all publishers and reading technology developers to open the world of reading to everybody. Authors, join us on the picket line." Steve Jacobs, president of IDEAL Group Inc., said, “Not only is text-to-speech important to people who are blind, it is critical in providing quality educations to millions of young people who rely on text-to-speech to learn effectively. This includes students with autism, learning disabilities, mobility disabilities, and cognitive disabilities that impact their ability to acquire information with their eyes only. I remain hopeful that the talented members of the Authors Guild come to understand the potential negative impact of disabling the text-to-speech function on their e-books and reconsider their position.” Cynthia D. Waddell, executive director of the International Center for Disability Resources on the Internet (ICDRI), said: “The mission of ICDRI supports the removal of barriers in electronic and information technology and the promotion of equal access. ICDRI welcomes the text-to-speech functionality being offered by the Kindle 2 since it increases mainstream access to books for the first time in history. We question why the Authors Guild demands that it be turned it off since many more books would be sold if text-to-speech was turned back on. Not only does this feature benefit persons with disabilities, but it also helps persons for whom English is not their native language. In an increasingly mobile society, flexibility in access to content improves the quality of life for everyone.” James Love, director of Knowledge Ecology International, said: “Knowing full well that not everyone can see, the Authors Guild wants the right to be seen, but not heard. By bullying Amazon to change the technology of Kindle 2, the Authors Guild will either deny access to people who are disabled, or make them pay more. By attacking disabled persons in this way, the Authors Guild is attacking everyone who would otherwise benefit from the contributions this community has the potential to offer.” James H. Wendorf, executive director for the National Center for Learning Disabilities, said: "Access to the written word is the cornerstone of education and democracy. New technologies must serve individuals with disabilities, not impede them. Our homes, schools and ultimately our economy rely on support for the future, not discriminating practices and beliefs from the past.” While the Kindle 2 is not currently accessible to blind users, Amazon recently announced on its Kindle 2 blog that it is currently at work on making the device’s navigational features accessible to the blind. The coalition includes: American Association of People with Disabilities, American Council of the Blind, American Foundation for the Blind, Association on Higher Education and Disability, Bazelon Center for Mental Health Law, Burton Blatt Institute, Digital Accessible Information System (DAISY) Consortium, Disability Rights Education and Defense Fund (DREDF), IDEAL Group, Inc., International Center for Disability Resources on the Internet, International Dyslexia Association, International Dyslexia Association––New York Branch, Knowledge Ecology International, Learning Disabilities Association of America, National Center for Learning Disabilities, National Disability Rights Network, National Federation of the Blind, NISH, and the National Spinal Cord Injury Association. In addition to the April 7 New York City protest, the coalition will participate in the Los Angeles Times Festival of Books on April 25-26. ### __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 3832 (20090206) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com From David.B.Andrews at state.mn.us Tue Mar 31 02:17:05 2009 From: David.B.Andrews at state.mn.us (David B Andrews) Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2009 21:17:05 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Kindle E-Reader: A Trojan Horse for Free Thought Message-ID: With all the discussion about the Kindle, and what it permits, and doesn't permit, I thought this might be of interest to some. David Andrews Kindle E-Reader: A Trojan Horse for Free Thought By Emily Walshe The Christian Science Monitor from the March 18, 2009 edition <http://www.csmonitor.com/2009/0318/p09s01-coop.html> Brookville, N.Y. - All you really need to know about the dangers of digital commodification you learned in kindergarten. Think back. Remember swapping your baloney sandwich for Jell-o pudding? Now, imagine handing over your sandwich and getting just a spoon. That's one trade you'd never make again. Yet that's just what millions of Americans are doing every day when they read "books" on Kindle, Amazon's e- reading device. In our rush to adopt new technologies, we have too readily surrendered ownership in favor of its twisted sister, access. Web 2.0 and its culture of collaboration supposedly unleashed a sharing society. But we can share only what we own. And as more and more content gets digitized, commercialized, and monopolized, our cultural integrity is threatened. The free and balanced flow of information that gives shape to democratic society is jeopardized. For now, though, Kindle is on fire in the marketplace. Who could resist reading "what you want, when you want it?" Access to more than 240,000 books is just seconds away. And its "revolutionary electronic-paper display ... looks and reads like real paper." But it comes with restrictions: You can't resell or share your books - because you don't own them. You can download only from Amazon's store, making it difficult to read anything that is not routed through Amazon first. You're not buying a book; you're buying access to a book. No, it's not like borrowing a book from a library, because there is no public investment. It's like taking an interest-only mortgage out on intellectual property. If our flailing economy is to teach us anything, it might be that an on-demand world of universal access (with words like lease, licensure, and liquidity) gets us into trouble. Amazon and other e-media aggregators know that digital text is the irrational exuberance of the day, and so are seizing the opportunity to codify, commodify, and control access for tomorrow. But access doesn't "look and read" like printed paper at all - just ask any forlorn investor. Access is useless currency. Why is this important? Because Kindle is the kind of technology that challenges media freedom and restricts media pluralism. It exacerbates what historian William Leach calls "the landscape of the temporary": a hyper mobile and rootless society that prefers access to ownership. Such a society is vulnerable to the dangers of selective censorship and control. Digital rights management (DRM), which Kindle uses to lock in its library, raises critical questions about the nature of property and identity in digital culture. Culture plays a large role - in some ways, larger than government - in shaping who we are as individuals in a society. The First Amendment protects our right to participate in the production of that culture. The widespread commodification of access is shaping nearly every aspect of modern citizenship. There are benefits, to be sure, but this transformation also poses a big- time threat to free expression and assembly. When Facebook, for example, proposed revisions to its terms of service last month - claiming ownership of user profiles and personal data - the successful backlash it spawned caused complex (even existential) ideas about property, identity, and capitulation to bubble up: Is my Facebook profile the essence of who I am? If so, who owns me? The hallmark of a constitutionally governed society, after all, is the acknowledgment that we are the authors of our own experience. In an Internet age, this is manifest not only in published works, but also an ever-evolving host of user-generated content (Twitter, Blogger, Facebook, YouTube, etc.). If service providers lay claim to digital content now, how will it all end? Print may be dying, but the idea of print would be the more critical demise: the idea that there needs to be a record - an artifact of permanence, residence, and posterity - that is independent of some well-appointed thingamajig in order to be seen, touched, understood, or wholly possessed. "You don't have to burn books to destroy a culture," Ray Bradbury once said. "Just get people to stop reading them." Access equals control. In this case, it is control over what is read and what is not; what is referenced and what is overlooked; what is retained and what is deleted; what is and what seems to be. To kindle, we must remember, is to set fire to. The combustible power of this device (and others like it) lies in their quiet but constant claim to intangible, algorithmic capital. What the Kindle should be igniting is serious debate on the fundamental, inalienable right to property in a digital age - and clarifying what's yours, mine, and ours. It should strike a match against the winner-take-all casino economies that this kind of technology engenders; revitalize American libraries and other social institutions in their quest to preserve the doctrines of fair use and first sale (which allow for free and lawful sharing); and finally, spark Americans to consider the extent to which they are handing over their baloney sandwich for a plastic spoon. Like a lot of people, I'm a sucker for a good book. But not at the expense of freedom, or foreclosure of thought. Emily Walshe is a librarian and professor at Long Island University in New York. From jsorozco at gmail.com Tue Mar 31 02:27:05 2009 From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco) Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2009 22:27:05 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Fw: Reading Rights Coalition Urges Authors toAllowEveryone Access to E-books In-Reply-To: <3632128BE00345E7A3A982C3407FA5DC@Scorpio13> Message-ID: Is there something those of us who cannot go to New York do to show support? Joe Orozco "A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the crowd."--Max Lucado -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Chris Danielsen Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 9:17 PM To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Fw: Reading Rights Coalition Urges Authors toAllowEveryone Access to E-books With Bookshare, you're not paying for the books you download. By contrast, if I buy a book like everyone else, it's nobody's business how I read it or why I'm reading it that way. Chris -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of E.J. Zufelt Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 6:15 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Fw: Reading Rights Coalition Urges Authors to AllowEveryone Access to E-books Is it immoral for Bookshare to require registration aswell? Everett On 30-Mar-09, at 2:21 PM, Michael Fry wrote: > It is awesome that so many organizations are coalescing around such a > noble and worthy cause. > > The Guilds position is immoral since it is infringes on human rights > and dignity because it exploits, for profit, a vulnerable minority of > the population. Requiring the disabled to 'register' - like some kind > of inferior animal - in order to use new, free, and innovative > text-to-speech technology places an unnecessary obstacle in path of > people with disablities. This obstacle is desgined solely to exploit > money from people without the time or inclination or, who are too > embarrassed to register, as a text disabled individuals. They are > attempting to bully extra profits out of people with disabilities. > The > Guild, comprised of enlightened and educated individuals, should be > ashamed since there is no explanation other than immoral greed for > their position. > > > On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 9:16 AM, Scott C. LaBarre > wrote: > >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Freeh, Jessica >> To: Alpidio Rolon ; Amy Buresh ; Anil Lewis ; Art Schreiber ; Beth >> Rival ; Bob Kresmer ; Carl Jacobsen ; Cathy Jackson ; Charlene Smyth >> ; Christine G. >> Hall ; Daniel Burke ; David Ticchi ; Don Galloway ; Donna Wood ; >> Elsie Lamp ; Frank Lee ; Franklin Shiner ; Fred Schroeder ; Fred >> Wurtzel ; Gary Ray ; Gary Wunder ; J.W. Smith ; James Antonacci ; >> James Broadnax ; Jennelle Bichler ; Jennifer Dunnam ; Jerree Harris ; >> Joe Ruffalo ; John Batron ; John Fritz ; Joyce Scanlan ; Kathy Davis >> ; Ken Rollman ; Kevan Worley ; Marie Johnson ; Mary Willows ; Melissa >> Riccobono ; Michael Barber ; Michael Freeman ; Nani Fife ; Pam Allen >> ; Parnell Diggs ; Patti Chang ; Richard Bennett ; Richard Gaffney ; >> Ron Brown ; Ron Gardner ; Sam Gleese ; Scott LaBarre ; Selena >> Sundling-Crawford ; Steven Priddle ; Terri Rupp ; Tommy Craig >> Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 7:09 AM >> Subject: Reading Rights Coalition Urges Authors to Allow Everyone >> Access to E-books >> >> >> FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE >> >> >> CONTACT: >> >> Chris Danielsen >> >> Director of Public Relations >> >> National Federation of the Blind >> >> (410) 659-9314, ext. 2330 >> >> (410) 262-1281 (Cell) >> cdanielsen at nfb.org >> >> >> >> Reading Rights Coalition Urges Authors to Allow Everyone Access to >> E-books >> >> >> >> Informational Protest to be Held at Authors Guild Headquarters >> >> >> >> New York City (March 30, 2009): The Reading Rights Coalition, which >> represents people who cannot read print, will protest the threatened >> removal of the text-to-speech function from e-books for the Amazon >> Kindle 2 outside the Authors Guild headquarters in New York City at >> 31 East 32nd Street on April 7, 2009, from noon to 2:00 p.m. The >> coalition includes the blind, people with dyslexia, people with >> learning or processing issues, seniors losing vision, people with >> spinal cord injuries, people recovering from strokes, and many others >> for whom the addition of text-to-speech on the Kindle 2 promised for >> the first time easy, mainstream access to over 245,000 books. >> >> >> >> When Amazon released the Kindle 2 electronic book reader on February >> 9, 2009, the company announced that the device would be able to read >> e- books aloud using text-to-speech technology. Under pressure from >> the Authors Guild, Amazon has announced that it will give authors and >> publishers the ability to disable the text-to-speech function on any >> or all of their e-books available for the Kindle 2. >> >> >> >> Dr. Marc Maurer, President of the National Federation of the Blind, >> said: >> "The blind and print-disabled have for years utilized text-to-speech >> technology to read and access information. As technology advances >> and more books move from hard-copy print to electronic formats, >> people with print disabilities have for the first time in history the >> opportunity to enjoy >> access to books on an equal basis with those who can read print. >> Authors >> and publishers who elect to disable text-to-speech for their e- books >> on the Kindle 2 prevent people who are blind or have >> >> other print disabilities from reading these e-books. This is blatant >> discrimination and we will not tolerate it." >> >> >> >> Mike Shuttic, president of the Association on Higher Education and >> Disability (AHEAD), said: "AHEAD envisions educational and societal >> environments that value disability and embody equality of >> opportunity. This vision of AHEAD is directly aligned with the >> efforts of this coalition. >> Although much rhetoric is made about potential obstacles and problems >> that >> exist, the basic goal is clear and simple--access for everyone. >> And why >> create something that prevents it?" >> >> >> >> Mitch Pomerantz, president of the American Council of the Blind, >> said: >> "Removing the text-to-speech features closes the door on an >> innovative technological solution that would make regular print books >> available to tens of thousands of individuals who are blind or >> visually impaired." >> >> >> >> Andrew Imparato, President and Chief Executive Officer for the >> American Association of People with Disabilities (AAPD), said: "It is >> outrageous when a technology device shuts out people with all kinds >> of disabilities. AAPD works to remove barriers to accessibility and >> usability in technology, and we don't expect to see people with >> disabilities singled out by having to pay more for access. New >> technologies, such as electronic books, should be available to >> everyone regardless of disability." >> >> Paul Schroeder, vice president of programs and policy for the >> American Foundation for the Blind, said: "Those of us with print >> disabilities have long dreamed of a world in which books and media >> are available to us at the same time as everyone else. The Kindle 2 >> offers that possibility for the first time. We hope publishers and >> authors come to see that text- to-speech is simply an alternative >> means of access to print." >> >> Dr. Peter Blanck, chairman and university professor at Burton Blatt >> Institute at Syracuse University, said: "As electronic books become >> the norm, denying universal access will result in more and more >> people with disabilities being left out of education, employment, and >> the societal conversation. We will all suffer from the absence of >> their participation and contribution to the debates that occupy us as >> a society." >> >> >> >> George Kerscher of the Digital Accessible Information System (DAISY) >> Consortium, said: "The DAISY Consortium envisions a world where >> people with print disabilities have equal access to information and >> knowledge, without delay or additional expense. Authors and >> publishers surely must share this vision. Now that the issue of >> human rights has been explained, and the opportunity for larger sales >> are known, I urge the Authors Guild to reverse their position on >> text-to-speech and join us in actively encouraging all publishers and >> reading technology developers to open the world of reading to >> everybody. Authors, join us on the picket line." >> >> >> >> >> >> Steve Jacobs, president of IDEAL Group Inc., said, "Not only is >> text-to-speech important to people who are blind, it is critical in >> providing quality educations to millions of young people who rely on >> text-to-speech to learn effectively. This includes students with >> autism, learning disabilities, mobility disabilities, and cognitive >> disabilities that impact their ability to acquire information with >> their eyes only. I remain hopeful that the talented members of the >> Authors Guild come to understand the potential negative impact of >> disabling the text-to- speech function on their e-books and >> reconsider their position." >> >> >> >> Cynthia D. Waddell, executive director of the International Center >> for Disability Resources on the Internet (ICDRI), said: "The mission >> of ICDRI supports the removal of barriers in electronic and >> information technology and the promotion of equal access. ICDRI >> welcomes the text-to-speech functionality being offered by the Kindle >> 2 since it increases mainstream access to books for the first time in >> history. We question why the Authors Guild demands that it be turned >> it off since many more books would be sold if text-to-speech was >> turned back on. Not only >> >> does this feature benefit persons with disabilities, but it also >> helps persons for whom English is not their native language. In an >> increasingly mobile society, flexibility in access to content >> improves the quality of life for everyone." >> >> >> >> James Love, director of Knowledge Ecology International, said: >> "Knowing >> full well that not everyone can see, the Authors Guild wants the >> right to be seen, but not heard. By bullying Amazon to change the >> technology of Kindle 2, the Authors Guild will either deny access to >> people who are disabled, or make them pay more. By attacking >> disabled persons in this way, the Authors Guild is attacking everyone >> who would otherwise benefit from the contributions this community has >> the potential to offer." >> >> >> >> James H. Wendorf, executive director for the National Center for >> Learning Disabilities, said: "Access to the written word is the >> cornerstone of education and democracy. New technologies must serve >> individuals with disabilities, not impede them. Our homes, schools >> and ultimately our economy rely on support for the future, not >> discriminating practices and beliefs from the past." >> >> While the Kindle 2 is not currently accessible to blind users, Amazon >> recently announced on its Kindle 2 blog that it is currently at work >> on making the device's navigational features accessible to the blind. >> >> >> >> The coalition includes: American Association of People with >> Disabilities, >> American Council of the Blind, American Foundation for the Blind, >> Association on Higher Education and Disability, Bazelon Center for >> Mental >> Health Law, Burton Blatt Institute, Digital Accessible Information >> System >> (DAISY) Consortium, Disability Rights Education and Defense Fund >> (DREDF), >> IDEAL Group, Inc., International Center for Disability Resources on >> the >> Internet, International Dyslexia Association, International Dyslexia >> Association--New York Branch, Knowledge Ecology International, >> Learning >> Disabilities Association of America, National Center for Learning >> Disabilities, National Disability Rights Network, National >> Federation of the >> Blind, NISH, and the National Spinal Cord Injury Association. In >> addition >> to the April 7 New York City protest, the coalition will >> participate in the >> Los Angeles Times Festival of Books on April 25-26. >> >> >> >> ### >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mikefr y79%40gmail. com >> > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/everet t%40zufelt.c a _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanie lsen8%40aol. com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3976 (20090330) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3976 (20090330) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jsoroz co%40gmail.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3973 (20090329) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3973 (20090329) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Tue Mar 31 04:03:50 2009 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2009 21:03:50 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] tenBroek Law Symposium--Still Time to Register In-Reply-To: References: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6B953E11@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local> Message-ID: <5968BC8D069D44CBAD43F9911C0650BC@spike> I too am in California and have raised the same issues. As a chapter president of a NFB chapter It is surprising that NFB has brought itself more in to the current age of the internet with webcasts and legislative alert systems. Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal PresidentNFBC central Valley Chapter 1237 P Street Fresno ca 93721 559-266-9237 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred Wright Lopez" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 10:36 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] tenBroek Law Symposium--Still Time to Register >I am an attorney member of the Blind Lawyers Association, although not an >NFB member I first would like to thank you for the genrerous offer you >have extended with regard to loggingassistance for the tenBroek Law >Sympsium. Transportation costs are certaintly a disincentive to >participation in this education conference. However, I am at a lost to >understand why there was no effort to provide "Web Casting" of this very >important legal training session. I reside in California and accordingly >the length of time taken to travel to and from the conference site is also >a consideration. I for one would very like to benefit from the tenbroek >seminar but can not afford the time away from other pressing legal >obligations. Web casting of the event would provide the opportunity for >many of us to participate. Is there any possibility that the symposium >can be web cast? > > Sincerely, Fred W. Lopez > > > On Mar 30, 2009, at 9:19 AM, Frye, Dan wrote: > >> List Colleagues: >> >> Lou Ann Blake, the tenBroek Law Symposium coordinator on the NFB >> national staff, has asked that I post this reminder flyer once again to >> members of the blind and visually impaired legal community subscribed to >> this list. In addition to everything Lou Ann says in the following >> announcement (which is also attached as a Word Document for your >> convenience), I am reasonably confident that some accommodations here at >> the National Center for the Blind can be made available for our members >> and friends who would come except for the additional expense associated >> with lodging. If free sleeping accommodations here at the National >> Center for the Blind would make your participation more likely, please >> contact Lou Ann Blake to discuss arrangements. As stated in the >> announcement, other financial concessions associated with the tenBroek >> Law Symposium can also be made in certain circumstances. Lou Ann has >> assembled a high-caliber array of program presenters, and we want to >> make certain that people can benefit from this important symposium. See >> the announcement pasted below and attached to this message for further >> information: >> >> There's Still Time to Register and Reserve Your Room at the Holiday Inn >> Inner Harbor >> >> >> >> For the >> >> >> >> 2009 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium >> >> New Perspectives on Disability Law: Advancing the Right to Live in the >> World >> >> >> >> >> >> Be sure to let your colleagues and friends know that the deadline to >> register for this exciting and powerful symposium is April 10, 2009, and >> that the cut-off date for reserving rooms at the Holiday Inn Inner >> Harbor has been extended to April 3, 2009. Don't miss this opportunity >> to voice your concerns to Kareem Dale, Special Assistant to President >> Obama for Disability Policy, at the 2009 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law >> Symposium on April 17th at the National Federation of the Blind Jernigan >> Institute in Baltimore, Maryland. Mr. Dale will speak on the Obama >> administration's policies on disability issues for approximately thirty >> minutes followed by a forty-five minute question and answer session. In >> addition to Mr. Dale, the presenters for the 2009 symposium are: >> >> >> >> * Maura Healey, Assistant Attorney General and Chief, Office of >> Civil Rights, Commonwealth of Massachusetts; >> * Amy Robertson and Timothy Fox, Principals, Fox & Robertson, >> P.C.; >> * Gerard Quinn, Professor of Law, National University of Ireland, >> Galway; >> * Katherine Guernsey, International Lawyer and Adjunct Professor, >> American University School of International Service; >> * Samuel Bagenstos, Visiting Professor of Law, UCLA Law School; >> * Christine Griffin, Commissioner, United States Equal Employment >> Opportunity Commission; and >> * Peter Blanck, University Professor and Chairman, Burton Blatt >> Institute at Syracuse University. >> >> >> >> Ari Ne'eman, founding president of the Autistic Self-Advocacy Network, >> will give the luncheon keynote address. >> >> >> >> To view the full agenda, register online, or download the registration >> form to register by mail or fax, visit the symposium Web page at >> http://www.nfb.org/nfb/Law_Symposium.asp. Hotel information may also be >> found on the symposium Web page. The deadline to make room reservations >> at the Holiday Inn Inner Harbor has been extended to 3:00 pm, April 3, >> 2009. >> >> >> >> The registration fee is $150; students may register for $20. A limited >> number of scholarships to cover the registration fee will be available >> to individuals with demonstrated financial need. Don't miss this >> exciting opportunity to interact with leading scholars, government >> officials, and advocates and to make your voice heard. The deadline to >> register is April 10, 2009. >> >> >> >> Symposium attendees will be provided documentation for CLE credit. >> Individuals will be responsible for filing the application for CLE >> credit with their state board. >> >> >> >> The 2009 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium is sponsored by the >> National Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute, the American Bar >> Association Commission on Mental and Physical Disability Law, the >> Maryland Department of Disability, the Texas Journal on Civil Liberties >> and Civil Rights, and the Legal Times. >> >> >> >> For additional information about the symposium, contact: >> >> >> >> Lou Ann Blake, Law Symposium Coordinator >> >> National Federation of the Blind >> >> Telephone: (410) 659-9314, ext. 2221 >> >> E-mail: lblake at nfb.org >> >> >> >> I look forward to seeing many of you on April 17, 2009, for the second >> annual tenBroek Law Symposium. >> >> >> >> With Kind Regards, >> >> >> >> >> *********************** >> Daniel B. Frye, J.D. >> Associate Editor >> The Braille Monitor >> National Federation of the Blind >> Office of the President >> 1800 Johnson Street >> Baltimore, Maryland 21230 >> Telephone: (410) 659-9314 Ext. 2208 >> Mobile: (410) 241-7006 >> Fax: (410) 685-5653 >> Email: DFrye at nfb.org >> Web Address: www.nfb.org >> "Voice of the Nation's Blind" >> >> <3-30 2009 law sym promo e- >> mail.doc>_______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/fwlopez%40comcast.net > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net From carter.tjoseph at gmail.com Tue Mar 31 11:56:45 2009 From: carter.tjoseph at gmail.com (T. Joseph Carter) Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2009 04:56:45 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Fw: Reading Rights Coalition Urges Authors to AllowEveryone Access to E-books In-Reply-To: <682E6BAAC17F4FE29F65138991E41E72@Scorpio13> References: <7556b95a0903301147s5ef9d3b9ubf43957bd3e1787d@mail.gmail.com> <682E6BAAC17F4FE29F65138991E41E72@Scorpio13> Message-ID: <20090331115645.GH30293@yumi.bluecherry.net> I think it's time we educate them. How do I wish I were in the area--I'd LOVE to be there. Joseph On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 09:12:57PM -0400, Chris Danielsen wrote: >The NFB has communicated directly with the Authors Guild. They have told us >that they are willing for the TTS to be turned on for the disabled and no >one else if there is a national registry of those with print disabilities. >When we told them that this is unacceptable, they suggested that those who >want to have books read aloud should pay a surcharge. > >Chris From jackchenonline at hotmail.com Tue Mar 31 12:34:47 2009 From: jackchenonline at hotmail.com (Jack Chen) Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2009 08:34:47 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Fw: Reading Rights Coalition Urges Authorsto AllowEveryone Access to E-books References: <7556b95a0903301147s5ef9d3b9ubf43957bd3e1787d@mail.gmail.com><682E6BAAC17F4FE29F65138991E41E72@Scorpio13> <20090331115645.GH30293@yumi.bluecherry.net> Message-ID: How would the problem be stated best? Is it an issue with having to register at all or is it a problem with the perception that such a registration list would label individuals as disabled? My apologies if my basic question offends anyone -- I'm just trying to understand the problem better. jack ----- Original Message ----- From: "T. Joseph Carter" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2009 7:56 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Fw: Reading Rights Coalition Urges Authorsto AllowEveryone Access to E-books >I think it's time we educate them. How do I wish I were in the area--I'd >LOVE to be there. > > Joseph > > On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 09:12:57PM -0400, Chris Danielsen wrote: >>The NFB has communicated directly with the Authors Guild. They have told >>us >>that they are willing for the TTS to be turned on for the disabled and no >>one else if there is a national registry of those with print disabilities. >>When we told them that this is unacceptable, they suggested that those who >>want to have books read aloud should pay a surcharge. >> >>Chris > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jackchenonline%40hotmail.com > From chatter8712 at gmail.com Tue Mar 31 12:35:19 2009 From: chatter8712 at gmail.com (Shane D) Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2009 08:35:19 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Fw: Reading Rights Coalition Urges Authors to Allow Everyone Access to E-books In-Reply-To: <350259D0-F452-4768-AB76-04A29D84F0C3@zufelt.ca> References: <40DB1C3BA7A1407E83E3E7A85D0E24FE@labarre> <8c58e54a0903301021m44094b44q5bcb7e72ab209a59@mail.gmail.com> <02D7D05D-7EE8-4D75-A7F1-05A1096E94B4@zufelt.ca> <350259D0-F452-4768-AB76-04A29D84F0C3@zufelt.ca> Message-ID: <7556b95a0903310535v3cdfb93lcbbf27cf04bdb5e7@mail.gmail.com> Re: Bookshare, we are being given nearly free access to copyrighted books. The $50/year goes to paying Bookshare's overhead. As such, Bookshare is required by law to varify our disabilities. However, Bookshare does not share with the publisher our disability information. I think the best analogy to this situation would be the Authors Guild taking a cut of Jaws proffit because it enables us to read books with audio. Bookshare is just a source for getting books. On 3/30/09, E.J. Zufelt wrote: > Good evening, > > One part of the argument was that: "The Guilds position is immoral > since it is infringes on human rights and dignity because it exploits, > for profit, a vulnerable minority >> >>> of the population. Requiring the disabled to 'register' - like >>> some kind >>> of inferior animal - in order to use new, free, and innovative text- >>> to-speech technology...". > > Understandably Bookshare.org is not for profit, however, the strongest > words in the above citation are related to having to "...register' - > like some kind of inferior animal...". If the registration > requirement for one service is acceptable how can the registration > requirement for a similar, but recognizably different, service been > seen as treating people like "inferior animals"? > > I agree that a method needs to be found to accommodate the needs of > all involved and to respect all current laws and the right of access > to information for the text-impaired population. However, the > "inferior animals" argument does not seem to have much foundation in > the facts. Perhaps the best solution is to require digital media > distributors to leave their publications unlocked for all readers, to > ensure the most open access to information for the text-impaired, > "inferior animals" does not seem to add any weight to the legal > argument on either side of this issue. > > Thanks, > Everett > > > On 30-Mar-09, at 9:11 PM, Rod Alcidonis wrote: > >> I can't tell you how much I hate it when a legal issue is seriously >> being >> debated on this list and someone comes along with a statement that >> is at >> best, uninformed. The current issue is not even close to a bookshare >> situation. I am afraid that this listserv might soon loses its >> character >> as a legal forum for blind legal professionals. Sad. >> >> Rod Alcidonis >> Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009. >> Roger Williams University School of Law >> 10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 >> Bristol, RI 02809 >> Home: (401) 824-8685 >> Cell: (718) 704-4651 >> E-mail: roddj12 at hotmail.com >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw- >> bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf Of E.J. Zufelt >> Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 6:15 PM >> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Fw: Reading Rights Coalition Urges Authors >> to Allow >> Everyone Access to E-books >> >> Is it immoral for Bookshare to require registration aswell? >> >> Everett >> >> >> On 30-Mar-09, at 2:21 PM, Michael Fry wrote: >> >>> It is awesome that so many organizations are coalescing around such >>> a noble >>> and worthy cause. >>> >>> The Guilds position is immoral since it is infringes on human rights >>> and dignity because it exploits, for profit, a vulnerable minority >>> of the >>> population. Requiring the disabled to 'register' - like some kind >>> of inferior animal - in order to use new, free, and >>> innovative text-to-speech technology places an unnecessary obstacle >>> in path >>> of people with disablities. This obstacle is desgined solely to >>> exploit >>> money from people without the time or inclination or, who are too >>> embarrassed to register, as a text disabled individuals. They are >>> attempting to bully extra profits out of people with disabilities. >>> The >>> Guild, comprised of enlightened and educated individuals, should be >>> ashamed >>> since there is no explanation other than immoral greed for their >>> position. >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 9:16 AM, Scott C. LaBarre >>> wrote: >>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: Freeh, Jessica >>>> To: Alpidio Rolon ; Amy Buresh ; Anil Lewis ; Art Schreiber ; Beth >>>> Rival ; >>>> Bob Kresmer ; Carl Jacobsen ; Cathy Jackson ; Charlene Smyth ; >>>> Christine G. >>>> Hall ; Daniel Burke ; David Ticchi ; Don Galloway ; Donna Wood ; >>>> Elsie Lamp >>>> ; Frank Lee ; Franklin Shiner ; Fred Schroeder ; Fred Wurtzel ; >>>> Gary Ray ; >>>> Gary Wunder ; J.W. Smith ; James Antonacci ; James Broadnax ; >>>> Jennelle >>>> Bichler ; Jennifer Dunnam ; Jerree Harris ; Joe Ruffalo ; John >>>> Batron ; John >>>> Fritz ; Joyce Scanlan ; Kathy Davis ; Ken Rollman ; Kevan Worley ; >>>> Marie >>>> Johnson ; Mary Willows ; Melissa Riccobono ; Michael Barber ; >>>> Michael >>>> Freeman ; Nani Fife ; Pam Allen ; Parnell Diggs ; Patti Chang ; >>>> Richard >>>> Bennett ; Richard Gaffney ; Ron Brown ; Ron Gardner ; Sam Gleese ; >>>> Scott >>>> LaBarre ; Selena Sundling-Crawford ; Steven Priddle ; Terri Rupp ; >>>> Tommy >>>> Craig >>>> Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 7:09 AM >>>> Subject: Reading Rights Coalition Urges Authors to Allow Everyone >>>> Access to >>>> E-books >>>> >>>> >>>> FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE >>>> >>>> >>>> CONTACT: >>>> >>>> Chris Danielsen >>>> >>>> Director of Public Relations >>>> >>>> National Federation of the Blind >>>> >>>> (410) 659-9314, ext. 2330 >>>> >>>> (410) 262-1281 (Cell) >>>> cdanielsen at nfb.org >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Reading Rights Coalition Urges Authors to Allow >>>> Everyone Access to E-books >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Informational Protest to be Held at Authors Guild Headquarters >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> New York City (March 30, 2009): The Reading Rights Coalition, which >>>> represents people who cannot read print, will protest the >>>> threatened removal >>>> of the text-to-speech function from e-books for the Amazon Kindle 2 >>>> outside >>>> the Authors Guild headquarters in New York City at 31 East 32nd >>>> Street on >>>> April 7, 2009, from noon to 2:00 p.m. The coalition includes the >>>> blind, >>>> people with dyslexia, people with learning or processing issues, >>>> seniors >>>> losing vision, people with spinal cord injuries, people recovering >>>> from >>>> strokes, and many others for whom the addition of text-to-speech on >>>> the >>>> Kindle 2 promised for the first time easy, mainstream access to >>>> over 245,000 >>>> books. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> When Amazon released the Kindle 2 electronic book reader on >>>> February 9, >>>> 2009, the company announced that the device would be able to read e- >>>> books >>>> aloud using text-to-speech technology. Under pressure from the >>>> Authors >>>> Guild, Amazon has announced that it will give authors and >>>> publishers the >>>> ability to disable the text-to-speech function on any or all of >>>> their >>>> e-books available for the Kindle 2. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Dr. Marc Maurer, President of the National Federation of the Blind, >>>> said: >>>> "The blind and print-disabled have for years utilized text-to-speech >>>> technology to read and access information. As technology advances >>>> and more >>>> books move from hard-copy print to electronic formats, people with >>>> print >>>> disabilities have for the first time in history the opportunity to >>>> enjoy >>>> access to books on an equal basis with those who can read print. >>>> Authors >>>> and publishers who elect to disable text-to-speech for their e- >>>> books on the >>>> Kindle 2 prevent people who are blind or have >>>> >>>> other print disabilities from reading these e-books. This is >>>> blatant >>>> discrimination and we will not tolerate it." >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Mike Shuttic, president of the Association on Higher Education and >>>> Disability (AHEAD), said: "AHEAD envisions educational and societal >>>> environments that value disability and embody equality of >>>> opportunity. This >>>> vision of AHEAD is directly aligned with the efforts of this >>>> coalition. >>>> Although much rhetoric is made about potential obstacles and >>>> problems that >>>> exist, the basic goal is clear and simple--access for everyone. >>>> And why >>>> create something that prevents it?" >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Mitch Pomerantz, president of the American Council of the Blind, >>>> said: >>>> "Removing the text-to-speech features closes the door on an >>>> innovative >>>> technological solution that would make regular print books >>>> available to tens >>>> of thousands of individuals who are blind or visually impaired." >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Andrew Imparato, President and Chief Executive Officer for the >>>> American >>>> Association of People with Disabilities (AAPD), said: "It is >>>> outrageous when >>>> a technology device shuts out people with all kinds of >>>> disabilities. AAPD >>>> works to remove barriers to accessibility and usability in >>>> technology, and >>>> we don't expect to see people with disabilities singled out by >>>> having to pay >>>> more for access. New technologies, such as electronic books, >>>> should be >>>> available to everyone regardless of disability." >>>> >>>> Paul Schroeder, vice president of programs and policy for the >>>> American >>>> Foundation for the Blind, said: "Those of us with print >>>> disabilities have >>>> long dreamed of a world in which books and media are available to >>>> us at the >>>> same time as everyone else. The Kindle 2 offers that possibility >>>> for the >>>> first time. We hope publishers and authors come to see that text- >>>> to-speech >>>> is simply an alternative means of access to print." >>>> >>>> Dr. Peter Blanck, chairman and university professor at Burton Blatt >>>> Institute at Syracuse University, said: "As electronic books become >>>> the >>>> norm, denying universal access will result in more and more people >>>> with >>>> disabilities being left out of education, employment, and the >>>> societal >>>> conversation. We will all suffer from the absence of their >>>> participation >>>> and contribution to the debates that occupy us as a society." >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> George Kerscher of the Digital Accessible Information System (DAISY) >>>> Consortium, said: "The DAISY Consortium envisions a world where >>>> people with >>>> print disabilities have equal access to information and knowledge, >>>> without >>>> delay or additional expense. Authors and publishers surely must >>>> share this >>>> vision. Now that the issue of human rights has been explained, and >>>> the >>>> opportunity for larger sales are known, I urge the Authors Guild to >>>> reverse >>>> their position on text-to-speech and join us in actively >>>> encouraging all >>>> publishers and reading technology developers to open the world of >>>> reading to >>>> everybody. Authors, join us on the picket line." >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Steve Jacobs, president of IDEAL Group Inc., said, "Not only is >>>> text-to-speech important to people who are blind, it is critical in >>>> providing quality educations to millions of young people who rely on >>>> text-to-speech to learn effectively. This includes students with >>>> autism, >>>> learning disabilities, mobility disabilities, and cognitive >>>> disabilities >>>> that impact their ability to acquire information with their eyes >>>> only. I >>>> remain hopeful that the talented members of the Authors Guild come >>>> to >>>> understand the potential negative impact of disabling the text-to- >>>> speech >>>> function on their e-books and reconsider their position." >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Cynthia D. Waddell, executive director of the International Center >>>> for >>>> Disability Resources on the Internet (ICDRI), said: "The mission >>>> of ICDRI >>>> supports the removal of barriers in electronic and information >>>> technology >>>> and the promotion of equal access. ICDRI welcomes the text-to- >>>> speech >>>> functionality being offered by the Kindle 2 since it increases >>>> mainstream >>>> access to books for the first time in history. We question why the >>>> Authors >>>> Guild demands that it be turned it off since many more books would >>>> be sold >>>> if text-to-speech was turned back on. Not only >>>> >>>> does this feature benefit persons with disabilities, but it also >>>> helps >>>> persons for whom English is not their native language. In an >>>> increasingly >>>> mobile society, flexibility in access to content improves the >>>> quality of >>>> life for everyone." >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> James Love, director of Knowledge Ecology International, said: >>>> "Knowing >>>> full well that not everyone can see, the Authors Guild wants the >>>> right to be >>>> seen, but not heard. By bullying Amazon to change the technology >>>> of Kindle >>>> 2, the Authors Guild will either deny access to people who are >>>> disabled, or >>>> make them pay more. By attacking disabled persons in this way, the >>>> Authors >>>> Guild is attacking everyone who would otherwise benefit from the >>>> contributions this community has the potential to offer." >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> James H. Wendorf, executive director for the National Center for >>>> Learning >>>> Disabilities, said: "Access to the written word is the cornerstone >>>> of >>>> education and democracy. New technologies must serve individuals >>>> with >>>> disabilities, not impede them. Our homes, schools and ultimately >>>> our >>>> economy rely on support for the future, not discriminating >>>> practices and >>>> beliefs from the past." >>>> >>>> While the Kindle 2 is not currently accessible to blind users, >>>> Amazon >>>> recently announced on its Kindle 2 blog that it is currently at >>>> work on >>>> making the device's navigational features accessible to the blind. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> The coalition includes: American Association of People with >>>> Disabilities, >>>> American Council of the Blind, American Foundation for the Blind, >>>> Association on Higher Education and Disability, Bazelon Center for >>>> Mental >>>> Health Law, Burton Blatt Institute, Digital Accessible Information >>>> System >>>> (DAISY) Consortium, Disability Rights Education and Defense Fund >>>> (DREDF), >>>> IDEAL Group, Inc., International Center for Disability Resources on >>>> the >>>> Internet, International Dyslexia Association, International Dyslexia >>>> Association--New York Branch, Knowledge Ecology International, >>>> Learning >>>> Disabilities Association of America, National Center for Learning >>>> Disabilities, National Disability Rights Network, National >>>> Federation of the >>>> Blind, NISH, and the National Spinal Cord Injury Association. In >>>> addition >>>> to the April 7 New York City protest, the coalition will >>>> participate in the >>>> Los Angeles Times Festival of Books on April 25-26. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ### >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> >>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mikefry79%40gmail >> >> . >> com >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for blindlaw: >>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/everett%40zufelt.c >> a >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail >> >> . >> com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/everett%40zufelt.ca > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/chatter8712%40gmail.com > -- -Shane Website: http://www.blind-geek.com AIM: inhaddict MSN: shane at blind-geek.com Skype: chatter8712 Twitter: blind_geek From roddj12 at hotmail.com Tue Mar 31 14:12:38 2009 From: roddj12 at hotmail.com (Rod Alcidonis) Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2009 10:12:38 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Fw: Reading Rights Coalition Urges Authors to Allow Everyone Access to E-books In-Reply-To: <7556b95a0903310535v3cdfb93lcbbf27cf04bdb5e7@mail.gmail.com> References: <40DB1C3BA7A1407E83E3E7A85D0E24FE@labarre> <8c58e54a0903301021m44094b44q5bcb7e72ab209a59@mail.gmail.com> <02D7D05D-7EE8-4D75-A7F1-05A1096E94B4@zufelt.ca> <350259D0-F452-4768-AB76-04A29D84F0C3@zufelt.ca> <7556b95a0903310535v3cdfb93lcbbf27cf04bdb5e7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Folks: this situation and that of bookshare is two different, and completely separate legal analyses. Let's not continue to mix the two. It is like mixing apples and oranges just because they are both known as fruits. Unlike as some have suggested, bookshare is required to verify your disability because it is a not-for-profit entity engaging in the distribution of copyrighted books to blind individuals. Distribution of copyrighted books would constitute a violation had bookshare not adhear to the requirement that its members are blind. It has nothing to do with you getting books nearly for free. Bookshare holds no right to these materials. Think of bookshare and RFBD as an exception to the general rule. This situation, however, involves not a copyright violation of any kind. No one is sharing copyrighted information. The information on this device is already being released with the entity's permission and attached conditions; rather, what's at issue here is that the entity is fearful that by allowing people to listen to books this way, in effect would interfere with some rights, which we are debating is unclear as to what that right is. By asking for people to registrer, the entity is seeking to place itself in the shoes of Bookshare and alike, but remember that it is a commercial entity. Unlike bookshare, this entity holds the copyrighted content on these devices. Rod Alcidonis  Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009. Roger Williams University School of Law 10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 Bristol, RI 02809 Home: (401) 824-8685 Cell: (718) 704-4651  E-mail: roddj12 at hotmail.com -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Shane D Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2009 8:35 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Fw: Reading Rights Coalition Urges Authors to Allow Everyone Access to E-books Re: Bookshare, we are being given nearly free access to copyrighted books. The $50/year goes to paying Bookshare's overhead. As such, Bookshare is required by law to varify our disabilities. However, Bookshare does not share with the publisher our disability information. I think the best analogy to this situation would be the Authors Guild taking a cut of Jaws proffit because it enables us to read books with audio. Bookshare is just a source for getting books. On 3/30/09, E.J. Zufelt wrote: > Good evening, > > One part of the argument was that: "The Guilds position is immoral > since it is infringes on human rights and dignity because it exploits, > for profit, a vulnerable minority >> >>> of the population. Requiring the disabled to 'register' - like >>> some kind >>> of inferior animal - in order to use new, free, and innovative text- >>> to-speech technology...". > > Understandably Bookshare.org is not for profit, however, the strongest > words in the above citation are related to having to "...register' - > like some kind of inferior animal...". If the registration > requirement for one service is acceptable how can the registration > requirement for a similar, but recognizably different, service been > seen as treating people like "inferior animals"? > > I agree that a method needs to be found to accommodate the needs of > all involved and to respect all current laws and the right of access > to information for the text-impaired population. However, the > "inferior animals" argument does not seem to have much foundation in > the facts. Perhaps the best solution is to require digital media > distributors to leave their publications unlocked for all readers, to > ensure the most open access to information for the text-impaired, > "inferior animals" does not seem to add any weight to the legal > argument on either side of this issue. > > Thanks, > Everett > > > On 30-Mar-09, at 9:11 PM, Rod Alcidonis wrote: > >> I can't tell you how much I hate it when a legal issue is seriously >> being >> debated on this list and someone comes along with a statement that >> is at >> best, uninformed. The current issue is not even close to a bookshare >> situation. I am afraid that this listserv might soon loses its >> character >> as a legal forum for blind legal professionals. Sad. >> >> Rod Alcidonis >> Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009. >> Roger Williams University School of Law >> 10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 >> Bristol, RI 02809 >> Home: (401) 824-8685 >> Cell: (718) 704-4651 >> E-mail: roddj12 at hotmail.com >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw- >> bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf Of E.J. Zufelt >> Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 6:15 PM >> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Fw: Reading Rights Coalition Urges Authors >> to Allow >> Everyone Access to E-books >> >> Is it immoral for Bookshare to require registration aswell? >> >> Everett >> >> >> On 30-Mar-09, at 2:21 PM, Michael Fry wrote: >> >>> It is awesome that so many organizations are coalescing around such >>> a noble >>> and worthy cause. >>> >>> The Guilds position is immoral since it is infringes on human rights >>> and dignity because it exploits, for profit, a vulnerable minority >>> of the >>> population. Requiring the disabled to 'register' - like some kind >>> of inferior animal - in order to use new, free, and >>> innovative text-to-speech technology places an unnecessary obstacle >>> in path >>> of people with disablities. This obstacle is desgined solely to >>> exploit >>> money from people without the time or inclination or, who are too >>> embarrassed to register, as a text disabled individuals. They are >>> attempting to bully extra profits out of people with disabilities. >>> The >>> Guild, comprised of enlightened and educated individuals, should be >>> ashamed >>> since there is no explanation other than immoral greed for their >>> position. >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 9:16 AM, Scott C. LaBarre >>> wrote: >>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: Freeh, Jessica >>>> To: Alpidio Rolon ; Amy Buresh ; Anil Lewis ; Art Schreiber ; Beth >>>> Rival ; >>>> Bob Kresmer ; Carl Jacobsen ; Cathy Jackson ; Charlene Smyth ; >>>> Christine G. >>>> Hall ; Daniel Burke ; David Ticchi ; Don Galloway ; Donna Wood ; >>>> Elsie Lamp >>>> ; Frank Lee ; Franklin Shiner ; Fred Schroeder ; Fred Wurtzel ; >>>> Gary Ray ; >>>> Gary Wunder ; J.W. Smith ; James Antonacci ; James Broadnax ; >>>> Jennelle >>>> Bichler ; Jennifer Dunnam ; Jerree Harris ; Joe Ruffalo ; John >>>> Batron ; John >>>> Fritz ; Joyce Scanlan ; Kathy Davis ; Ken Rollman ; Kevan Worley ; >>>> Marie >>>> Johnson ; Mary Willows ; Melissa Riccobono ; Michael Barber ; >>>> Michael >>>> Freeman ; Nani Fife ; Pam Allen ; Parnell Diggs ; Patti Chang ; >>>> Richard >>>> Bennett ; Richard Gaffney ; Ron Brown ; Ron Gardner ; Sam Gleese ; >>>> Scott >>>> LaBarre ; Selena Sundling-Crawford ; Steven Priddle ; Terri Rupp ; >>>> Tommy >>>> Craig >>>> Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 7:09 AM >>>> Subject: Reading Rights Coalition Urges Authors to Allow Everyone >>>> Access to >>>> E-books >>>> >>>> >>>> FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE >>>> >>>> >>>> CONTACT: >>>> >>>> Chris Danielsen >>>> >>>> Director of Public Relations >>>> >>>> National Federation of the Blind >>>> >>>> (410) 659-9314, ext. 2330 >>>> >>>> (410) 262-1281 (Cell) >>>> cdanielsen at nfb.org >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Reading Rights Coalition Urges Authors to Allow >>>> Everyone Access to E-books >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Informational Protest to be Held at Authors Guild Headquarters >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> New York City (March 30, 2009): The Reading Rights Coalition, which >>>> represents people who cannot read print, will protest the >>>> threatened removal >>>> of the text-to-speech function from e-books for the Amazon Kindle 2 >>>> outside >>>> the Authors Guild headquarters in New York City at 31 East 32nd >>>> Street on >>>> April 7, 2009, from noon to 2:00 p.m. The coalition includes the >>>> blind, >>>> people with dyslexia, people with learning or processing issues, >>>> seniors >>>> losing vision, people with spinal cord injuries, people recovering >>>> from >>>> strokes, and many others for whom the addition of text-to-speech on >>>> the >>>> Kindle 2 promised for the first time easy, mainstream access to >>>> over 245,000 >>>> books. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> When Amazon released the Kindle 2 electronic book reader on >>>> February 9, >>>> 2009, the company announced that the device would be able to read e- >>>> books >>>> aloud using text-to-speech technology. Under pressure from the >>>> Authors >>>> Guild, Amazon has announced that it will give authors and >>>> publishers the >>>> ability to disable the text-to-speech function on any or all of >>>> their >>>> e-books available for the Kindle 2. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Dr. Marc Maurer, President of the National Federation of the Blind, >>>> said: >>>> "The blind and print-disabled have for years utilized text-to-speech >>>> technology to read and access information. As technology advances >>>> and more >>>> books move from hard-copy print to electronic formats, people with >>>> print >>>> disabilities have for the first time in history the opportunity to >>>> enjoy >>>> access to books on an equal basis with those who can read print. >>>> Authors >>>> and publishers who elect to disable text-to-speech for their e- >>>> books on the >>>> Kindle 2 prevent people who are blind or have >>>> >>>> other print disabilities from reading these e-books. This is >>>> blatant >>>> discrimination and we will not tolerate it." >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Mike Shuttic, president of the Association on Higher Education and >>>> Disability (AHEAD), said: "AHEAD envisions educational and societal >>>> environments that value disability and embody equality of >>>> opportunity. This >>>> vision of AHEAD is directly aligned with the efforts of this >>>> coalition. >>>> Although much rhetoric is made about potential obstacles and >>>> problems that >>>> exist, the basic goal is clear and simple--access for everyone. >>>> And why >>>> create something that prevents it?" >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Mitch Pomerantz, president of the American Council of the Blind, >>>> said: >>>> "Removing the text-to-speech features closes the door on an >>>> innovative >>>> technological solution that would make regular print books >>>> available to tens >>>> of thousands of individuals who are blind or visually impaired." >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Andrew Imparato, President and Chief Executive Officer for the >>>> American >>>> Association of People with Disabilities (AAPD), said: "It is >>>> outrageous when >>>> a technology device shuts out people with all kinds of >>>> disabilities. AAPD >>>> works to remove barriers to accessibility and usability in >>>> technology, and >>>> we don't expect to see people with disabilities singled out by >>>> having to pay >>>> more for access. New technologies, such as electronic books, >>>> should be >>>> available to everyone regardless of disability." >>>> >>>> Paul Schroeder, vice president of programs and policy for the >>>> American >>>> Foundation for the Blind, said: "Those of us with print >>>> disabilities have >>>> long dreamed of a world in which books and media are available to >>>> us at the >>>> same time as everyone else. The Kindle 2 offers that possibility >>>> for the >>>> first time. We hope publishers and authors come to see that text- >>>> to-speech >>>> is simply an alternative means of access to print." >>>> >>>> Dr. Peter Blanck, chairman and university professor at Burton Blatt >>>> Institute at Syracuse University, said: "As electronic books become >>>> the >>>> norm, denying universal access will result in more and more people >>>> with >>>> disabilities being left out of education, employment, and the >>>> societal >>>> conversation. We will all suffer from the absence of their >>>> participation >>>> and contribution to the debates that occupy us as a society." >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> George Kerscher of the Digital Accessible Information System (DAISY) >>>> Consortium, said: "The DAISY Consortium envisions a world where >>>> people with >>>> print disabilities have equal access to information and knowledge, >>>> without >>>> delay or additional expense. Authors and publishers surely must >>>> share this >>>> vision. Now that the issue of human rights has been explained, and >>>> the >>>> opportunity for larger sales are known, I urge the Authors Guild to >>>> reverse >>>> their position on text-to-speech and join us in actively >>>> encouraging all >>>> publishers and reading technology developers to open the world of >>>> reading to >>>> everybody. Authors, join us on the picket line." >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Steve Jacobs, president of IDEAL Group Inc., said, "Not only is >>>> text-to-speech important to people who are blind, it is critical in >>>> providing quality educations to millions of young people who rely on >>>> text-to-speech to learn effectively. This includes students with >>>> autism, >>>> learning disabilities, mobility disabilities, and cognitive >>>> disabilities >>>> that impact their ability to acquire information with their eyes >>>> only. I >>>> remain hopeful that the talented members of the Authors Guild come >>>> to >>>> understand the potential negative impact of disabling the text-to- >>>> speech >>>> function on their e-books and reconsider their position." >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Cynthia D. Waddell, executive director of the International Center >>>> for >>>> Disability Resources on the Internet (ICDRI), said: "The mission >>>> of ICDRI >>>> supports the removal of barriers in electronic and information >>>> technology >>>> and the promotion of equal access. ICDRI welcomes the text-to- >>>> speech >>>> functionality being offered by the Kindle 2 since it increases >>>> mainstream >>>> access to books for the first time in history. We question why the >>>> Authors >>>> Guild demands that it be turned it off since many more books would >>>> be sold >>>> if text-to-speech was turned back on. Not only >>>> >>>> does this feature benefit persons with disabilities, but it also >>>> helps >>>> persons for whom English is not their native language. In an >>>> increasingly >>>> mobile society, flexibility in access to content improves the >>>> quality of >>>> life for everyone." >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> James Love, director of Knowledge Ecology International, said: >>>> "Knowing >>>> full well that not everyone can see, the Authors Guild wants the >>>> right to be >>>> seen, but not heard. By bullying Amazon to change the technology >>>> of Kindle >>>> 2, the Authors Guild will either deny access to people who are >>>> disabled, or >>>> make them pay more. By attacking disabled persons in this way, the >>>> Authors >>>> Guild is attacking everyone who would otherwise benefit from the >>>> contributions this community has the potential to offer." >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> James H. Wendorf, executive director for the National Center for >>>> Learning >>>> Disabilities, said: "Access to the written word is the cornerstone >>>> of >>>> education and democracy. New technologies must serve individuals >>>> with >>>> disabilities, not impede them. Our homes, schools and ultimately >>>> our >>>> economy rely on support for the future, not discriminating >>>> practices and >>>> beliefs from the past." >>>> >>>> While the Kindle 2 is not currently accessible to blind users, >>>> Amazon >>>> recently announced on its Kindle 2 blog that it is currently at >>>> work on >>>> making the device's navigational features accessible to the blind. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> The coalition includes: American Association of People with >>>> Disabilities, >>>> American Council of the Blind, American Foundation for the Blind, >>>> Association on Higher Education and Disability, Bazelon Center for >>>> Mental >>>> Health Law, Burton Blatt Institute, Digital Accessible Information >>>> System >>>> (DAISY) Consortium, Disability Rights Education and Defense Fund >>>> (DREDF), >>>> IDEAL Group, Inc., International Center for Disability Resources on >>>> the >>>> Internet, International Dyslexia Association, International Dyslexia >>>> Association--New York Branch, Knowledge Ecology International, >>>> Learning >>>> Disabilities Association of America, National Center for Learning >>>> Disabilities, National Disability Rights Network, National >>>> Federation of the >>>> Blind, NISH, and the National Spinal Cord Injury Association. In >>>> addition >>>> to the April 7 New York City protest, the coalition will >>>> participate in the >>>> Los Angeles Times Festival of Books on April 25-26. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ### >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> >>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mikefry79%40gmail >> >> . >> com >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for blindlaw: >>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/everett%40zufelt.c >> a >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail >> >> . >> com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/everett%40zufelt.c a > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/chatter8712%40gmai l.com > -- -Shane Website: http://www.blind-geek.com AIM: inhaddict MSN: shane at blind-geek.com Skype: chatter8712 Twitter: blind_geek _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail. com From mikefry79 at gmail.com Tue Mar 31 16:00:32 2009 From: mikefry79 at gmail.com (Michael Fry) Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2009 09:00:32 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Fw: Reading Rights Coalition Urges Authors to Allow Everyone Access to E-books In-Reply-To: References: <40DB1C3BA7A1407E83E3E7A85D0E24FE@labarre> <8c58e54a0903301021m44094b44q5bcb7e72ab209a59@mail.gmail.com> <02D7D05D-7EE8-4D75-A7F1-05A1096E94B4@zufelt.ca> <350259D0-F452-4768-AB76-04A29D84F0C3@zufelt.ca> <7556b95a0903310535v3cdfb93lcbbf27cf04bdb5e7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <8c58e54a0903310900k3ccebd04nadbe49f2c96a9445@mail.gmail.com> I wish I would have been there too. How did yesterday's protest go? Wait until one of these Harvard Educated law firms that just got done cleaning the floor with Target and the U.S. Treasury Department gets a hold of this case. I almost suspect the NFB is just going through the motions of giving the Guild notice of their wrongful actions before the NFB sues the pants off of them. I agree with Rod that it seems this will be close to a legal slam dunk against the Guild. I wonder if there's some Sherman Act violations here, in addtion to ADA violations. Mike On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 7:12 AM, Rod Alcidonis wrote: > Folks: this situation and that of bookshare is two different, and > completely > separate legal analyses. Let's not continue to mix the two. It is like > mixing apples and oranges just because they are both known as fruits. > Unlike as some have suggested, bookshare is required to verify your > disability because it is a not-for-profit entity engaging in the > distribution of copyrighted books to blind individuals. Distribution of > copyrighted books would constitute a violation had bookshare not adhear to > the requirement that its members are blind. It has nothing to do with you > getting books nearly for free. Bookshare holds no right to these materials. > Think of bookshare and RFBD as an exception to the general rule. > > This situation, however, involves not a copyright violation of any kind. No > one is sharing copyrighted information. The information on this device is > already being released with the entity's permission and attached > conditions; > rather, what's at issue here is that the entity is fearful that by allowing > people to listen to books this way, in effect would interfere with some > rights, which we are debating is unclear as to what that right is. By > asking > for people to registrer, the entity is seeking to place itself in the shoes > of Bookshare and alike, but remember that it is a commercial entity. Unlike > bookshare, this entity holds the copyrighted content on these devices. > > Rod Alcidonis > Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009. > Roger Williams University School of Law > 10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 > Bristol, RI 02809 > Home: (401) 824-8685 > Cell: (718) 704-4651 > E-mail: roddj12 at hotmail.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of Shane D > Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2009 8:35 AM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Fw: Reading Rights Coalition Urges Authors to Allow > Everyone Access to E-books > > Re: Bookshare, we are being given nearly free access to copyrighted > books. The $50/year goes to paying Bookshare's overhead. As such, > Bookshare is required by law to varify our disabilities. However, > Bookshare does not share with the publisher our disability > information. > > I think the best analogy to this situation would be the Authors Guild > taking a cut of Jaws proffit because it enables us to read books with > audio. Bookshare is just a source for getting books. > > On 3/30/09, E.J. Zufelt wrote: > > Good evening, > > > > One part of the argument was that: "The Guilds position is immoral > > since it is infringes on human rights and dignity because it exploits, > > for profit, a vulnerable minority > >> > >>> of the population. Requiring the disabled to 'register' - like > >>> some kind > >>> of inferior animal - in order to use new, free, and innovative text- > >>> to-speech technology...". > > > > Understandably Bookshare.org is not for profit, however, the strongest > > words in the above citation are related to having to "...register' - > > like some kind of inferior animal...". If the registration > > requirement for one service is acceptable how can the registration > > requirement for a similar, but recognizably different, service been > > seen as treating people like "inferior animals"? > > > > I agree that a method needs to be found to accommodate the needs of > > all involved and to respect all current laws and the right of access > > to information for the text-impaired population. However, the > > "inferior animals" argument does not seem to have much foundation in > > the facts. Perhaps the best solution is to require digital media > > distributors to leave their publications unlocked for all readers, to > > ensure the most open access to information for the text-impaired, > > "inferior animals" does not seem to add any weight to the legal > > argument on either side of this issue. > > > > Thanks, > > Everett > > > > > > On 30-Mar-09, at 9:11 PM, Rod Alcidonis wrote: > > > >> I can't tell you how much I hate it when a legal issue is seriously > >> being > >> debated on this list and someone comes along with a statement that > >> is at > >> best, uninformed. The current issue is not even close to a bookshare > >> situation. I am afraid that this listserv might soon loses its > >> character > >> as a legal forum for blind legal professionals. Sad. > >> > >> Rod Alcidonis > >> Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009. > >> Roger Williams University School of Law > >> 10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 > >> Bristol, RI 02809 > >> Home: (401) 824-8685 > >> Cell: (718) 704-4651 > >> E-mail: roddj12 at hotmail.com > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw- > >> bounces at nfbnet.org] On > >> Behalf Of E.J. Zufelt > >> Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 6:15 PM > >> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Fw: Reading Rights Coalition Urges Authors > >> to Allow > >> Everyone Access to E-books > >> > >> Is it immoral for Bookshare to require registration aswell? > >> > >> Everett > >> > >> > >> On 30-Mar-09, at 2:21 PM, Michael Fry wrote: > >> > >>> It is awesome that so many organizations are coalescing around such > >>> a noble > >>> and worthy cause. > >>> > >>> The Guilds position is immoral since it is infringes on human rights > >>> and dignity because it exploits, for profit, a vulnerable minority > >>> of the > >>> population. Requiring the disabled to 'register' - like some kind > >>> of inferior animal - in order to use new, free, and > >>> innovative text-to-speech technology places an unnecessary obstacle > >>> in path > >>> of people with disablities. This obstacle is desgined solely to > >>> exploit > >>> money from people without the time or inclination or, who are too > >>> embarrassed to register, as a text disabled individuals. They are > >>> attempting to bully extra profits out of people with disabilities. > >>> The > >>> Guild, comprised of enlightened and educated individuals, should be > >>> ashamed > >>> since there is no explanation other than immoral greed for their > >>> position. > >>> > >>> > >>> On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 9:16 AM, Scott C. LaBarre > >>> wrote: > >>> > >>>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>>> From: Freeh, Jessica > >>>> To: Alpidio Rolon ; Amy Buresh ; Anil Lewis ; Art Schreiber ; Beth > >>>> Rival ; > >>>> Bob Kresmer ; Carl Jacobsen ; Cathy Jackson ; Charlene Smyth ; > >>>> Christine G. > >>>> Hall ; Daniel Burke ; David Ticchi ; Don Galloway ; Donna Wood ; > >>>> Elsie Lamp > >>>> ; Frank Lee ; Franklin Shiner ; Fred Schroeder ; Fred Wurtzel ; > >>>> Gary Ray ; > >>>> Gary Wunder ; J.W. Smith ; James Antonacci ; James Broadnax ; > >>>> Jennelle > >>>> Bichler ; Jennifer Dunnam ; Jerree Harris ; Joe Ruffalo ; John > >>>> Batron ; John > >>>> Fritz ; Joyce Scanlan ; Kathy Davis ; Ken Rollman ; Kevan Worley ; > >>>> Marie > >>>> Johnson ; Mary Willows ; Melissa Riccobono ; Michael Barber ; > >>>> Michael > >>>> Freeman ; Nani Fife ; Pam Allen ; Parnell Diggs ; Patti Chang ; > >>>> Richard > >>>> Bennett ; Richard Gaffney ; Ron Brown ; Ron Gardner ; Sam Gleese ; > >>>> Scott > >>>> LaBarre ; Selena Sundling-Crawford ; Steven Priddle ; Terri Rupp ; > >>>> Tommy > >>>> Craig > >>>> Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 7:09 AM > >>>> Subject: Reading Rights Coalition Urges Authors to Allow Everyone > >>>> Access to > >>>> E-books > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> CONTACT: > >>>> > >>>> Chris Danielsen > >>>> > >>>> Director of Public Relations > >>>> > >>>> National Federation of the Blind > >>>> > >>>> (410) 659-9314, ext. 2330 > >>>> > >>>> (410) 262-1281 (Cell) > >>>> cdanielsen at nfb.org > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Reading Rights Coalition Urges Authors to Allow > >>>> Everyone Access to E-books > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Informational Protest to be Held at Authors Guild Headquarters > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> New York City (March 30, 2009): The Reading Rights Coalition, which > >>>> represents people who cannot read print, will protest the > >>>> threatened removal > >>>> of the text-to-speech function from e-books for the Amazon Kindle 2 > >>>> outside > >>>> the Authors Guild headquarters in New York City at 31 East 32nd > >>>> Street on > >>>> April 7, 2009, from noon to 2:00 p.m. The coalition includes the > >>>> blind, > >>>> people with dyslexia, people with learning or processing issues, > >>>> seniors > >>>> losing vision, people with spinal cord injuries, people recovering > >>>> from > >>>> strokes, and many others for whom the addition of text-to-speech on > >>>> the > >>>> Kindle 2 promised for the first time easy, mainstream access to > >>>> over 245,000 > >>>> books. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> When Amazon released the Kindle 2 electronic book reader on > >>>> February 9, > >>>> 2009, the company announced that the device would be able to read e- > >>>> books > >>>> aloud using text-to-speech technology. Under pressure from the > >>>> Authors > >>>> Guild, Amazon has announced that it will give authors and > >>>> publishers the > >>>> ability to disable the text-to-speech function on any or all of > >>>> their > >>>> e-books available for the Kindle 2. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Dr. Marc Maurer, President of the National Federation of the Blind, > >>>> said: > >>>> "The blind and print-disabled have for years utilized text-to-speech > >>>> technology to read and access information. As technology advances > >>>> and more > >>>> books move from hard-copy print to electronic formats, people with > >>>> print > >>>> disabilities have for the first time in history the opportunity to > >>>> enjoy > >>>> access to books on an equal basis with those who can read print. > >>>> Authors > >>>> and publishers who elect to disable text-to-speech for their e- > >>>> books on the > >>>> Kindle 2 prevent people who are blind or have > >>>> > >>>> other print disabilities from reading these e-books. This is > >>>> blatant > >>>> discrimination and we will not tolerate it." > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Mike Shuttic, president of the Association on Higher Education and > >>>> Disability (AHEAD), said: "AHEAD envisions educational and societal > >>>> environments that value disability and embody equality of > >>>> opportunity. This > >>>> vision of AHEAD is directly aligned with the efforts of this > >>>> coalition. > >>>> Although much rhetoric is made about potential obstacles and > >>>> problems that > >>>> exist, the basic goal is clear and simple--access for everyone. > >>>> And why > >>>> create something that prevents it?" > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Mitch Pomerantz, president of the American Council of the Blind, > >>>> said: > >>>> "Removing the text-to-speech features closes the door on an > >>>> innovative > >>>> technological solution that would make regular print books > >>>> available to tens > >>>> of thousands of individuals who are blind or visually impaired." > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Andrew Imparato, President and Chief Executive Officer for the > >>>> American > >>>> Association of People with Disabilities (AAPD), said: "It is > >>>> outrageous when > >>>> a technology device shuts out people with all kinds of > >>>> disabilities. AAPD > >>>> works to remove barriers to accessibility and usability in > >>>> technology, and > >>>> we don't expect to see people with disabilities singled out by > >>>> having to pay > >>>> more for access. New technologies, such as electronic books, > >>>> should be > >>>> available to everyone regardless of disability." > >>>> > >>>> Paul Schroeder, vice president of programs and policy for the > >>>> American > >>>> Foundation for the Blind, said: "Those of us with print > >>>> disabilities have > >>>> long dreamed of a world in which books and media are available to > >>>> us at the > >>>> same time as everyone else. The Kindle 2 offers that possibility > >>>> for the > >>>> first time. We hope publishers and authors come to see that text- > >>>> to-speech > >>>> is simply an alternative means of access to print." > >>>> > >>>> Dr. Peter Blanck, chairman and university professor at Burton Blatt > >>>> Institute at Syracuse University, said: "As electronic books become > >>>> the > >>>> norm, denying universal access will result in more and more people > >>>> with > >>>> disabilities being left out of education, employment, and the > >>>> societal > >>>> conversation. We will all suffer from the absence of their > >>>> participation > >>>> and contribution to the debates that occupy us as a society." > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> George Kerscher of the Digital Accessible Information System (DAISY) > >>>> Consortium, said: "The DAISY Consortium envisions a world where > >>>> people with > >>>> print disabilities have equal access to information and knowledge, > >>>> without > >>>> delay or additional expense. Authors and publishers surely must > >>>> share this > >>>> vision. Now that the issue of human rights has been explained, and > >>>> the > >>>> opportunity for larger sales are known, I urge the Authors Guild to > >>>> reverse > >>>> their position on text-to-speech and join us in actively > >>>> encouraging all > >>>> publishers and reading technology developers to open the world of > >>>> reading to > >>>> everybody. Authors, join us on the picket line." > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Steve Jacobs, president of IDEAL Group Inc., said, "Not only is > >>>> text-to-speech important to people who are blind, it is critical in > >>>> providing quality educations to millions of young people who rely on > >>>> text-to-speech to learn effectively. This includes students with > >>>> autism, > >>>> learning disabilities, mobility disabilities, and cognitive > >>>> disabilities > >>>> that impact their ability to acquire information with their eyes > >>>> only. I > >>>> remain hopeful that the talented members of the Authors Guild come > >>>> to > >>>> understand the potential negative impact of disabling the text-to- > >>>> speech > >>>> function on their e-books and reconsider their position." > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Cynthia D. Waddell, executive director of the International Center > >>>> for > >>>> Disability Resources on the Internet (ICDRI), said: "The mission > >>>> of ICDRI > >>>> supports the removal of barriers in electronic and information > >>>> technology > >>>> and the promotion of equal access. ICDRI welcomes the text-to- > >>>> speech > >>>> functionality being offered by the Kindle 2 since it increases > >>>> mainstream > >>>> access to books for the first time in history. We question why the > >>>> Authors > >>>> Guild demands that it be turned it off since many more books would > >>>> be sold > >>>> if text-to-speech was turned back on. Not only > >>>> > >>>> does this feature benefit persons with disabilities, but it also > >>>> helps > >>>> persons for whom English is not their native language. In an > >>>> increasingly > >>>> mobile society, flexibility in access to content improves the > >>>> quality of > >>>> life for everyone." > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> James Love, director of Knowledge Ecology International, said: > >>>> "Knowing > >>>> full well that not everyone can see, the Authors Guild wants the > >>>> right to be > >>>> seen, but not heard. By bullying Amazon to change the technology > >>>> of Kindle > >>>> 2, the Authors Guild will either deny access to people who are > >>>> disabled, or > >>>> make them pay more. By attacking disabled persons in this way, the > >>>> Authors > >>>> Guild is attacking everyone who would otherwise benefit from the > >>>> contributions this community has the potential to offer." > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> James H. Wendorf, executive director for the National Center for > >>>> Learning > >>>> Disabilities, said: "Access to the written word is the cornerstone > >>>> of > >>>> education and democracy. New technologies must serve individuals > >>>> with > >>>> disabilities, not impede them. Our homes, schools and ultimately > >>>> our > >>>> economy rely on support for the future, not discriminating > >>>> practices and > >>>> beliefs from the past." > >>>> > >>>> While the Kindle 2 is not currently accessible to blind users, > >>>> Amazon > >>>> recently announced on its Kindle 2 blog that it is currently at > >>>> work on > >>>> making the device's navigational features accessible to the blind. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> The coalition includes: American Association of People with > >>>> Disabilities, > >>>> American Council of the Blind, American Foundation for the Blind, > >>>> Association on Higher Education and Disability, Bazelon Center for > >>>> Mental > >>>> Health Law, Burton Blatt Institute, Digital Accessible Information > >>>> System > >>>> (DAISY) Consortium, Disability Rights Education and Defense Fund > >>>> (DREDF), > >>>> IDEAL Group, Inc., International Center for Disability Resources on > >>>> the > >>>> Internet, International Dyslexia Association, International Dyslexia > >>>> Association--New York Branch, Knowledge Ecology International, > >>>> Learning > >>>> Disabilities Association of America, National Center for Learning > >>>> Disabilities, National Disability Rights Network, National > >>>> Federation of the > >>>> Blind, NISH, and the National Spinal Cord Injury Association. In > >>>> addition > >>>> to the April 7 New York City protest, the coalition will > >>>> participate in the > >>>> Los Angeles Times Festival of Books on April 25-26. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> ### > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> blindlaw mailing list > >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > >>>> for > >>>> blindlaw: > >>>> > >>>> > >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mikefry79%40gmail > >> > >> . > >> com > >>>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> blindlaw mailing list > >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > >>> for blindlaw: > >>> > >> > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/everett%40zufelt.c > >> a > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> blindlaw mailing list > >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> blindlaw: > >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail > >> > >> . > >> com > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> blindlaw mailing list > >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > >> for blindlaw: > >> > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/everett%40zufelt.c > a > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > blindlaw mailing list > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > blindlaw: > > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/chatter8712%40gmai > l.com > > > > > -- > -Shane > Website: http://www.blind-geek.com > AIM: inhaddict > MSN: shane at blind-geek.com > Skype: chatter8712 > Twitter: blind_geek > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail. > com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mikefry79%40gmail.com > From mworkman at ualberta.ca Tue Mar 31 16:52:56 2009 From: mworkman at ualberta.ca (mworkman at ualberta.ca) Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2009 10:52:56 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] Fw: Reading Rights Coalition Urges Authors toAllow Everyone Access to E-books In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Rod, it looks to me like you are begging the question. You say the two cases are completely different because one involves distributing copyrighted material under the exception for persons with disabilities, and the other case does not involve a violation of copyright, but the latter point is exactly what is up for debate. The author's guild is claiming that the TTS on the Kindel is, in fact, a violation of copyright, which they are prepared to overlook as an exception for people with print disabilities, provided that people register, exactly as they must in the case of Bookshare. Personally, I don't think that TTS should be construed as a violation of copyright, but you can't say two cases are different because of X, and then simply assert X, as you have done. Marc -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]On Behalf Of Rod Alcidonis Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2009 8:13 AM To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Fw: Reading Rights Coalition Urges Authors toAllow Everyone Access to E-books Folks: this situation and that of bookshare is two different, and completely separate legal analyses. Let's not continue to mix the two. It is like mixing apples and oranges just because they are both known as fruits. Unlike as some have suggested, bookshare is required to verify your disability because it is a not-for-profit entity engaging in the distribution of copyrighted books to blind individuals. Distribution of copyrighted books would constitute a violation had bookshare not adhear to the requirement that its members are blind. It has nothing to do with you getting books nearly for free. Bookshare holds no right to these materials. Think of bookshare and RFBD as an exception to the general rule. This situation, however, involves not a copyright violation of any kind. No one is sharing copyrighted information. The information on this device is already being released with the entity's permission and attached conditions; rather, what's at issue here is that the entity is fearful that by allowing people to listen to books this way, in effect would interfere with some rights, which we are debating is unclear as to what that right is. By asking for people to registrer, the entity is seeking to place itself in the shoes of Bookshare and alike, but remember that it is a commercial entity. Unlike bookshare, this entity holds the copyrighted content on these devices. Rod Alcidonis  Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009. Roger Williams University School of Law 10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 Bristol, RI 02809 Home: (401) 824-8685 Cell: (718) 704-4651  E-mail: roddj12 at hotmail.com -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Shane D Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2009 8:35 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Fw: Reading Rights Coalition Urges Authors to Allow Everyone Access to E-books Re: Bookshare, we are being given nearly free access to copyrighted books. The $50/year goes to paying Bookshare's overhead. As such, Bookshare is required by law to varify our disabilities. However, Bookshare does not share with the publisher our disability information. I think the best analogy to this situation would be the Authors Guild taking a cut of Jaws proffit because it enables us to read books with audio. Bookshare is just a source for getting books. On 3/30/09, E.J. Zufelt wrote: > Good evening, > > One part of the argument was that: "The Guilds position is immoral > since it is infringes on human rights and dignity because it exploits, > for profit, a vulnerable minority >> >>> of the population. Requiring the disabled to 'register' - like >>> some kind >>> of inferior animal - in order to use new, free, and innovative text- >>> to-speech technology...". > > Understandably Bookshare.org is not for profit, however, the strongest > words in the above citation are related to having to "...register' - > like some kind of inferior animal...". If the registration > requirement for one service is acceptable how can the registration > requirement for a similar, but recognizably different, service been > seen as treating people like "inferior animals"? > > I agree that a method needs to be found to accommodate the needs of > all involved and to respect all current laws and the right of access > to information for the text-impaired population. However, the > "inferior animals" argument does not seem to have much foundation in > the facts. Perhaps the best solution is to require digital media > distributors to leave their publications unlocked for all readers, to > ensure the most open access to information for the text-impaired, > "inferior animals" does not seem to add any weight to the legal > argument on either side of this issue. > > Thanks, > Everett > > > On 30-Mar-09, at 9:11 PM, Rod Alcidonis wrote: > >> I can't tell you how much I hate it when a legal issue is seriously >> being >> debated on this list and someone comes along with a statement that >> is at >> best, uninformed. The current issue is not even close to a bookshare >> situation. I am afraid that this listserv might soon loses its >> character >> as a legal forum for blind legal professionals. Sad. >> >> Rod Alcidonis >> Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009. >> Roger Williams University School of Law >> 10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 >> Bristol, RI 02809 >> Home: (401) 824-8685 >> Cell: (718) 704-4651 >> E-mail: roddj12 at hotmail.com >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw- >> bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf Of E.J. Zufelt >> Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 6:15 PM >> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Fw: Reading Rights Coalition Urges Authors >> to Allow >> Everyone Access to E-books >> >> Is it immoral for Bookshare to require registration aswell? >> >> Everett >> >> >> On 30-Mar-09, at 2:21 PM, Michael Fry wrote: >> >>> It is awesome that so many organizations are coalescing around such >>> a noble >>> and worthy cause. >>> >>> The Guilds position is immoral since it is infringes on human rights >>> and dignity because it exploits, for profit, a vulnerable minority >>> of the >>> population. Requiring the disabled to 'register' - like some kind >>> of inferior animal - in order to use new, free, and >>> innovative text-to-speech technology places an unnecessary obstacle >>> in path >>> of people with disablities. This obstacle is desgined solely to >>> exploit >>> money from people without the time or inclination or, who are too >>> embarrassed to register, as a text disabled individuals. They are >>> attempting to bully extra profits out of people with disabilities. >>> The >>> Guild, comprised of enlightened and educated individuals, should be >>> ashamed >>> since there is no explanation other than immoral greed for their >>> position. >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 9:16 AM, Scott C. LaBarre >>> wrote: >>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: Freeh, Jessica >>>> To: Alpidio Rolon ; Amy Buresh ; Anil Lewis ; Art Schreiber ; Beth >>>> Rival ; >>>> Bob Kresmer ; Carl Jacobsen ; Cathy Jackson ; Charlene Smyth ; >>>> Christine G. >>>> Hall ; Daniel Burke ; David Ticchi ; Don Galloway ; Donna Wood ; >>>> Elsie Lamp >>>> ; Frank Lee ; Franklin Shiner ; Fred Schroeder ; Fred Wurtzel ; >>>> Gary Ray ; >>>> Gary Wunder ; J.W. Smith ; James Antonacci ; James Broadnax ; >>>> Jennelle >>>> Bichler ; Jennifer Dunnam ; Jerree Harris ; Joe Ruffalo ; John >>>> Batron ; John >>>> Fritz ; Joyce Scanlan ; Kathy Davis ; Ken Rollman ; Kevan Worley ; >>>> Marie >>>> Johnson ; Mary Willows ; Melissa Riccobono ; Michael Barber ; >>>> Michael >>>> Freeman ; Nani Fife ; Pam Allen ; Parnell Diggs ; Patti Chang ; >>>> Richard >>>> Bennett ; Richard Gaffney ; Ron Brown ; Ron Gardner ; Sam Gleese ; >>>> Scott >>>> LaBarre ; Selena Sundling-Crawford ; Steven Priddle ; Terri Rupp ; >>>> Tommy >>>> Craig >>>> Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 7:09 AM >>>> Subject: Reading Rights Coalition Urges Authors to Allow Everyone >>>> Access to >>>> E-books >>>> >>>> >>>> FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE >>>> >>>> >>>> CONTACT: >>>> >>>> Chris Danielsen >>>> >>>> Director of Public Relations >>>> >>>> National Federation of the Blind >>>> >>>> (410) 659-9314, ext. 2330 >>>> >>>> (410) 262-1281 (Cell) >>>> cdanielsen at nfb.org >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Reading Rights Coalition Urges Authors to Allow >>>> Everyone Access to E-books >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Informational Protest to be Held at Authors Guild Headquarters >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> New York City (March 30, 2009): The Reading Rights Coalition, which >>>> represents people who cannot read print, will protest the >>>> threatened removal >>>> of the text-to-speech function from e-books for the Amazon Kindle 2 >>>> outside >>>> the Authors Guild headquarters in New York City at 31 East 32nd >>>> Street on >>>> April 7, 2009, from noon to 2:00 p.m. The coalition includes the >>>> blind, >>>> people with dyslexia, people with learning or processing issues, >>>> seniors >>>> losing vision, people with spinal cord injuries, people recovering >>>> from >>>> strokes, and many others for whom the addition of text-to-speech on >>>> the >>>> Kindle 2 promised for the first time easy, mainstream access to >>>> over 245,000 >>>> books. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> When Amazon released the Kindle 2 electronic book reader on >>>> February 9, >>>> 2009, the company announced that the device would be able to read e- >>>> books >>>> aloud using text-to-speech technology. Under pressure from the >>>> Authors >>>> Guild, Amazon has announced that it will give authors and >>>> publishers the >>>> ability to disable the text-to-speech function on any or all of >>>> their >>>> e-books available for the Kindle 2. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Dr. Marc Maurer, President of the National Federation of the Blind, >>>> said: >>>> "The blind and print-disabled have for years utilized text-to-speech >>>> technology to read and access information. As technology advances >>>> and more >>>> books move from hard-copy print to electronic formats, people with >>>> print >>>> disabilities have for the first time in history the opportunity to >>>> enjoy >>>> access to books on an equal basis with those who can read print. >>>> Authors >>>> and publishers who elect to disable text-to-speech for their e- >>>> books on the >>>> Kindle 2 prevent people who are blind or have >>>> >>>> other print disabilities from reading these e-books. This is >>>> blatant >>>> discrimination and we will not tolerate it." >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Mike Shuttic, president of the Association on Higher Education and >>>> Disability (AHEAD), said: "AHEAD envisions educational and societal >>>> environments that value disability and embody equality of >>>> opportunity. This >>>> vision of AHEAD is directly aligned with the efforts of this >>>> coalition. >>>> Although much rhetoric is made about potential obstacles and >>>> problems that >>>> exist, the basic goal is clear and simple--access for everyone. >>>> And why >>>> create something that prevents it?" >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Mitch Pomerantz, president of the American Council of the Blind, >>>> said: >>>> "Removing the text-to-speech features closes the door on an >>>> innovative >>>> technological solution that would make regular print books >>>> available to tens >>>> of thousands of individuals who are blind or visually impaired." >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Andrew Imparato, President and Chief Executive Officer for the >>>> American >>>> Association of People with Disabilities (AAPD), said: "It is >>>> outrageous when >>>> a technology device shuts out people with all kinds of >>>> disabilities. AAPD >>>> works to remove barriers to accessibility and usability in >>>> technology, and >>>> we don't expect to see people with disabilities singled out by >>>> having to pay >>>> more for access. New technologies, such as electronic books, >>>> should be >>>> available to everyone regardless of disability." >>>> >>>> Paul Schroeder, vice president of programs and policy for the >>>> American >>>> Foundation for the Blind, said: "Those of us with print >>>> disabilities have >>>> long dreamed of a world in which books and media are available to >>>> us at the >>>> same time as everyone else. The Kindle 2 offers that possibility >>>> for the >>>> first time. We hope publishers and authors come to see that text- >>>> to-speech >>>> is simply an alternative means of access to print." >>>> >>>> Dr. Peter Blanck, chairman and university professor at Burton Blatt >>>> Institute at Syracuse University, said: "As electronic books become >>>> the >>>> norm, denying universal access will result in more and more people >>>> with >>>> disabilities being left out of education, employment, and the >>>> societal >>>> conversation. We will all suffer from the absence of their >>>> participation >>>> and contribution to the debates that occupy us as a society." >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> George Kerscher of the Digital Accessible Information System (DAISY) >>>> Consortium, said: "The DAISY Consortium envisions a world where >>>> people with >>>> print disabilities have equal access to information and knowledge, >>>> without >>>> delay or additional expense. Authors and publishers surely must >>>> share this >>>> vision. Now that the issue of human rights has been explained, and >>>> the >>>> opportunity for larger sales are known, I urge the Authors Guild to >>>> reverse >>>> their position on text-to-speech and join us in actively >>>> encouraging all >>>> publishers and reading technology developers to open the world of >>>> reading to >>>> everybody. Authors, join us on the picket line." >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Steve Jacobs, president of IDEAL Group Inc., said, "Not only is >>>> text-to-speech important to people who are blind, it is critical in >>>> providing quality educations to millions of young people who rely on >>>> text-to-speech to learn effectively. This includes students with >>>> autism, >>>> learning disabilities, mobility disabilities, and cognitive >>>> disabilities >>>> that impact their ability to acquire information with their eyes >>>> only. I >>>> remain hopeful that the talented members of the Authors Guild come >>>> to >>>> understand the potential negative impact of disabling the text-to- >>>> speech >>>> function on their e-books and reconsider their position." >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Cynthia D. Waddell, executive director of the International Center >>>> for >>>> Disability Resources on the Internet (ICDRI), said: "The mission >>>> of ICDRI >>>> supports the removal of barriers in electronic and information >>>> technology >>>> and the promotion of equal access. ICDRI welcomes the text-to- >>>> speech >>>> functionality being offered by the Kindle 2 since it increases >>>> mainstream >>>> access to books for the first time in history. We question why the >>>> Authors >>>> Guild demands that it be turned it off since many more books would >>>> be sold >>>> if text-to-speech was turned back on. Not only >>>> >>>> does this feature benefit persons with disabilities, but it also >>>> helps >>>> persons for whom English is not their native language. In an >>>> increasingly >>>> mobile society, flexibility in access to content improves the >>>> quality of >>>> life for everyone." >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> James Love, director of Knowledge Ecology International, said: >>>> "Knowing >>>> full well that not everyone can see, the Authors Guild wants the >>>> right to be >>>> seen, but not heard. By bullying Amazon to change the technology >>>> of Kindle >>>> 2, the Authors Guild will either deny access to people who are >>>> disabled, or >>>> make them pay more. By attacking disabled persons in this way, the >>>> Authors >>>> Guild is attacking everyone who would otherwise benefit from the >>>> contributions this community has the potential to offer." >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> James H. Wendorf, executive director for the National Center for >>>> Learning >>>> Disabilities, said: "Access to the written word is the cornerstone >>>> of >>>> education and democracy. New technologies must serve individuals >>>> with >>>> disabilities, not impede them. Our homes, schools and ultimately >>>> our >>>> economy rely on support for the future, not discriminating >>>> practices and >>>> beliefs from the past." >>>> >>>> While the Kindle 2 is not currently accessible to blind users, >>>> Amazon >>>> recently announced on its Kindle 2 blog that it is currently at >>>> work on >>>> making the device's navigational features accessible to the blind. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> The coalition includes: American Association of People with >>>> Disabilities, >>>> American Council of the Blind, American Foundation for the Blind, >>>> Association on Higher Education and Disability, Bazelon Center for >>>> Mental >>>> Health Law, Burton Blatt Institute, Digital Accessible Information >>>> System >>>> (DAISY) Consortium, Disability Rights Education and Defense Fund >>>> (DREDF), >>>> IDEAL Group, Inc., International Center for Disability Resources on >>>> the >>>> Internet, International Dyslexia Association, International Dyslexia >>>> Association--New York Branch, Knowledge Ecology International, >>>> Learning >>>> Disabilities Association of America, National Center for Learning >>>> Disabilities, National Disability Rights Network, National >>>> Federation of the >>>> Blind, NISH, and the National Spinal Cord Injury Association. In >>>> addition >>>> to the April 7 New York City protest, the coalition will >>>> participate in the >>>> Los Angeles Times Festival of Books on April 25-26. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ### >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> >>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mikefry79%40gmail >> >> . >> com >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for blindlaw: >>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/everett%40zufelt.c >> a >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail >> >> . >> com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/everett%40zufelt.c a > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/chatter8712%40gmai l.com > -- -Shane Website: http://www.blind-geek.com AIM: inhaddict MSN: shane at blind-geek.com Skype: chatter8712 Twitter: blind_geek _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail. com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mworkman%40ualbert a.ca From mar.cra at comcast.net Tue Mar 31 17:05:16 2009 From: mar.cra at comcast.net (Craig R. Anderson) Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2009 17:05:16 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [blindlaw] Kindle E-Reader: A Trojan Horse for Free Thought In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1146423434.1444691238519116668.JavaMail.root@sz0094a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Dave, Heady thoughts indeed. But isn't Ms. Walsh a little too alarmist? How, after all, is a digitalized book on a Kindle Reader significantly different in this respect from a borrowed library book? Thanks in any event for posting the essay. Regards. Craig ----- David B Andrews wrote: > With all the discussion about the Kindle, and what it permits, and > doesn't permit, I thought this might be of interest to some. > > David Andrews > > > Kindle E-Reader: A Trojan Horse for Free Thought > > By Emily Walshe > The Christian Science Monitor > from the March 18, 2009 edition > <http://www.csmonitor.com/2009/0318/p09s01-coop.html> > > Brookville, N.Y. - All you really need to know about > the dangers of digital commodification you learned in > kindergarten. > > Think back. Remember swapping your baloney sandwich for > Jell-o pudding? Now, imagine handing over your sandwich > and getting just a spoon. > > That's one trade you'd never make again. > > Yet that's just what millions of Americans are doing > every day when they read "books" on Kindle, Amazon's e- > reading device. In our rush to adopt new technologies, > we have too readily surrendered ownership in favor of > its twisted sister, access. > > Web 2.0 and its culture of collaboration supposedly > unleashed a sharing society. But we can share only what > we own. And as more and more content gets digitized, > commercialized, and monopolized, our cultural integrity > is threatened. The free and balanced flow of > information that gives shape to democratic society is > jeopardized. > > For now, though, Kindle is on fire in the marketplace. > Who could resist reading "what you want, when you want > it?" Access to more than 240,000 books is just seconds > away. And its "revolutionary electronic-paper display > ... looks and reads like real paper." > > But it comes with restrictions: You can't resell or > share your books - because you don't own them. You can > download only from Amazon's store, making it difficult > to read anything that is not routed through Amazon > first. You're not buying a book; you're buying access > to a book. No, it's not like borrowing a book from a > library, because there is no public investment. It's > like taking an interest-only mortgage out on > intellectual property. > > If our flailing economy is to teach us anything, it > might be that an on-demand world of universal access > (with words like lease, licensure, and liquidity) gets > us into trouble. Amazon and other e-media aggregators > know that digital text is the irrational exuberance of > the day, and so are seizing the opportunity to codify, > commodify, and control access for tomorrow. But access > doesn't "look and read" like printed paper at all - > just ask any forlorn investor. Access is useless > currency. > > Why is this important? Because Kindle is the kind of > technology that challenges media freedom and restricts > media pluralism. It exacerbates what historian William > Leach calls "the landscape of the temporary": a hyper > mobile and rootless society that prefers access to > ownership. Such a society is vulnerable to the dangers > of selective censorship and control. > > Digital rights management (DRM), which Kindle uses to > lock in its library, raises critical questions about > the nature of property and identity in digital culture. > Culture plays a large role - in some ways, larger than > government - in shaping who we are as individuals in a > society. The First Amendment protects our right to > participate in the production of that culture. The > widespread commodification of access is shaping nearly > every aspect of modern citizenship. There are benefits, > to be sure, but this transformation also poses a big- > time threat to free expression and assembly. > > When Facebook, for example, proposed revisions to its > terms of service last month - claiming ownership of > user profiles and personal data - the successful > backlash it spawned caused complex (even existential) > ideas about property, identity, and capitulation to > bubble up: Is my Facebook profile the essence of who I > am? If so, who owns me? > > The hallmark of a constitutionally governed society, > after all, is the acknowledgment that we are the > authors of our own experience. In an Internet age, this > is manifest not only in published works, but also an > ever-evolving host of user-generated content (Twitter, > Blogger, Facebook, YouTube, etc.). If service providers > lay claim to digital content now, how will it all end? > > Print may be dying, but the idea of print would be the > more critical demise: the idea that there needs to be a > record - an artifact of permanence, residence, and > posterity - that is independent of some well-appointed > thingamajig in order to be seen, touched, understood, > or wholly possessed. > > "You don't have to burn books to destroy a culture," > Ray Bradbury once said. "Just get people to stop > reading them." > > Access equals control. In this case, it is control over > what is read and what is not; what is referenced and > what is overlooked; what is retained and what is > deleted; what is and what seems to be. > > To kindle, we must remember, is to set fire to. The > combustible power of this device (and others like it) > lies in their quiet but constant claim to intangible, > algorithmic capital. What the Kindle should be igniting > is serious debate on the fundamental, inalienable right > to property in a digital age - and clarifying what's > yours, mine, and ours. > > It should strike a match against the winner-take-all > casino economies that this kind of technology > engenders; revitalize American libraries and other > social institutions in their quest to preserve the > doctrines of fair use and first sale (which allow for > free and lawful sharing); and finally, spark Americans > to consider the extent to which they are handing over > their baloney sandwich for a plastic spoon. > > Like a lot of people, I'm a sucker for a good book. But > not at the expense of freedom, or foreclosure of > thought. > > > Emily Walshe is a librarian and professor at Long > Island University in New York. > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mar.cra%40comcast.net From craig.borne at dot.gov Tue Mar 31 18:09:48 2009 From: craig.borne at dot.gov (craig.borne at dot.gov) Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2009 14:09:48 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Kindle E-Reader: A Trojan Horse for Free Thought In-Reply-To: <1146423434.1444691238519116668.JavaMail.root@sz0094a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> References: <1146423434.1444691238519116668.JavaMail.root@sz0094a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <61017FCC3706464B8ACB770A8038174E371C45@OSTMAIL03VS3.ad.dot.gov> Hi Craig, One major difference I see is that a library book is never owned by the patron. It is merely borrowed. On the other hand, the patron who purchases the electronic book on the Kindle is purchasing the same privileages as one who purchases a hard copy of the book, yet that purchase, though promising ownership of the book, is severely limited as to the portability of that book, which is not the case with a hard bound book. My impression of the article's focus was that we are indeed heading into a great technological age, but we also seem to be giving up certain privileages along the way. ITunes is another great example: I can purchase an entire albumn of music, but I am limited in how I want to listen to that music. I am also limited in allowing my neighbor to borrow the albumn to decide whether or not he is interested in purchasing it for himself (I am not suggesting any copying of the albumn in this example). Craig Craig Borne NHTSA/DOT (202) 493-0627 craig.borne at dot.gov -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Craig R. Anderson Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2009 1:05 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Kindle E-Reader: A Trojan Horse for Free Thought Dave, Heady thoughts indeed. But isn't Ms. Walsh a little too alarmist? How, after all, is a digitalized book on a Kindle Reader significantly different in this respect from a borrowed library book? Thanks in any event for posting the essay. Regards. Craig ----- David B Andrews wrote: > With all the discussion about the Kindle, and what it permits, and > doesn't permit, I thought this might be of interest to some. > > David Andrews > > > Kindle E-Reader: A Trojan Horse for Free Thought > > By Emily Walshe > The Christian Science Monitor > from the March 18, 2009 edition > <http://www.csmonitor.com/200 9/0318/p09s01-coop.html> > > Brookville, N.Y. - All you really need to know about > the dangers of digital commodification you learned in > kindergarten. > > Think back. Remember swapping your baloney sandwich for > Jell-o pudding? Now, imagine handing over your sandwich > and getting just a spoon. > > That's one trade you'd never make again. > > Yet that's just what millions of Americans are doing > every day when they read "books" on Kindle, Amazon's e- > reading device. In our rush to adopt new technologies, > we have too readily surrendered ownership in favor of > its twisted sister, access. > > Web 2.0 and its culture of collaboration supposedly > unleashed a sharing society. But we can share only what > we own. And as more and more content gets digitized, > commercialized, and monopolized, our cultural integrity > is threatened. The free and balanced flow of > information that gives shape to democratic society is > jeopardized. > > For now, though, Kindle is on fire in the marketplace. > Who could resist reading "what you want, when you want > it?" Access to more than 240,000 books is just seconds > away. And its "revolutionary electronic-paper display > ... looks and reads like real paper." > > But it comes with restrictions: You can't resell or > share your books - because you don't own them. You can > download only from Amazon's store, making it difficult > to read anything that is not routed through Amazon > first. You're not buying a book; you're buying access > to a book. No, it's not like borrowing a book from a > library, because there is no public investment. It's > like taking an interest-only mortgage out on > intellectual property. > > If our flailing economy is to teach us anything, it > might be that an on-demand world of universal access > (with words like lease, licensure, and liquidity) gets > us into trouble. Amazon and other e-media aggregators > know that digital text is the irrational exuberance of > the day, and so are seizing the opportunity to codify, > commodify, and control access for tomorrow. But access > doesn't "look and read" like printed paper at all - > just ask any forlorn investor. Access is useless > currency. > > Why is this important? Because Kindle is the kind of > technology that challenges media freedom and restricts > media pluralism. It exacerbates what historian William > Leach calls "the landscape of the temporary": a hyper > mobile and rootless society that prefers access to > ownership. Such a society is vulnerable to the dangers > of selective censorship and control. > > Digital rights management (DRM), which Kindle uses to > lock in its library, raises critical questions about > the nature of property and identity in digital culture. > Culture plays a large role - in some ways, larger than > government - in shaping who we are as individuals in a > society. The First Amendment protects our right to > participate in the production of that culture. The > widespread commodification of access is shaping nearly > every aspect of modern citizenship. There are benefits, > to be sure, but this transformation also poses a big- > time threat to free expression and assembly. > > When Facebook, for example, proposed revisions to its > terms of service last month - claiming ownership of > user profiles and personal data - the successful > backlash it spawned caused complex (even existential) > ideas about property, identity, and capitulation to > bubble up: Is my Facebook profile the essence of who I > am? If so, who owns me? > > The hallmark of a constitutionally governed society, > after all, is the acknowledgment that we are the > authors of our own experience. In an Internet age, this > is manifest not only in published works, but also an > ever-evolving host of user-generated content (Twitter, > Blogger, Facebook, YouTube, etc.). If service providers > lay claim to digital content now, how will it all end? > > Print may be dying, but the idea of print would be the > more critical demise: the idea that there needs to be a > record - an artifact of permanence, residence, and > posterity - that is independent of some well-appointed > thingamajig in order to be seen, touched, understood, > or wholly possessed. > > "You don't have to burn books to destroy a culture," > Ray Bradbury once said. "Just get people to stop > reading them." > > Access equals control. In this case, it is control over > what is read and what is not; what is referenced and > what is overlooked; what is retained and what is > deleted; what is and what seems to be. > > To kindle, we must remember, is to set fire to. The > combustible power of this device (and others like it) > lies in their quiet but constant claim to intangible, > algorithmic capital. What the Kindle should be igniting > is serious debate on the fundamental, inalienable right > to property in a digital age - and clarifying what's > yours, mine, and ours. > > It should strike a match against the winner-take-all > casino economies that this kind of technology > engenders; revitalize American libraries and other > social institutions in their quest to preserve the > doctrines of fair use and first sale (which allow for > free and lawful sharing); and finally, spark Americans > to consider the extent to which they are handing over > their baloney sandwich for a plastic spoon. > > Like a lot of people, I'm a sucker for a good book. But > not at the expense of freedom, or foreclosure of > thought. > > > Emily Walshe is a librarian and professor at Long > Island University in New York. > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mar.cra%40comc ast.net _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/craig.borne%40 dot.gov From kdbenterprises at yahoo.com Tue Mar 31 21:02:12 2009 From: kdbenterprises at yahoo.com (kdb) Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2009 14:02:12 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [blindlaw] Ideas please- to show support Message-ID: <786010.96569.qm@web57302.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Please list any ideas those of you in support of the protest may have so that WE, who are unable to attend this effort as well as future efforts to fight for our rights, can access and use to lend our support. Thanks kdbenterprises at yahoo.com Retinopathy Blindness Tech Support Consultant From ms at browngold.com Tue Mar 31 21:50:25 2009 From: ms at browngold.com (Mehgan Sidhu) Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2009 17:50:25 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Ideas please- to show support In-Reply-To: <786010.96569.qm@web57302.mail.re1.yahoo.com> References: <786010.96569.qm@web57302.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: The Coalition is adding a "Take Action" section to the ReadingRights.org website that suggests several ways you can show support regardless of where you live. Those steps include: (1) Writing letters to the members of the Board of the Authors Guild and major publishers (contact information will be posted); (2) Sending statements to us about what text-to-speech and equal access to books means to you that we can post on the website and use in the campaign; (3) Uploading videos to YouTube that show how and why you use text-to-speech to read (and letting us know about your video so we can link to it from the website); (4) Encouraging friends and family members, colleagues, and everyone you know to get involved by coming to the protests, writing letters to authors, and / or sending us statements; We need everyone's help - regardless of whether you can make it to the protest - to ensure that the right to equal access to books does not slip out of reach at the foolhardy insistence of the Authors Guild. Mehgan Sidhu Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP 120 East Baltimore Street, Suite 1700 Baltimore, Maryland 21202 410-962-1030 x1324 410-385-0869 (fax) ms at browngold.com www.browngold.com Confidentiality Notice This e-mail may contain confidential information that may also be legally privileged and that is intended only for the use of the addressee(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient or an authorized agent of the recipient, please be advised that any dissemination or copying of this e-mail, or taking of any action in reliance on the information contained herein, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify me immediately by use of the reply button, and then delete the e-mail from your system. Thank you! -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of kdb Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2009 5:02 PM To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org Subject: [blindlaw] Ideas please- to show support Please list any ideas those of you in support of the protest may have so that WE, who are unable to attend this effort as well as future efforts to fight for our rights, can access and use to lend our support. Thanks kdbenterprises at yahoo.com Retinopathy Blindness Tech Support Consultant _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ms%40browngold.com From cdanielsen8 at aol.com Tue Mar 31 21:58:40 2009 From: cdanielsen8 at aol.com (Chris Danielsen) Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2009 17:58:40 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Kindle E-Reader: A Trojan Horse for Free Thought In-Reply-To: <61017FCC3706464B8ACB770A8038174E371C45@OSTMAIL03VS3.ad.dot.gov> References: <1146423434.1444691238519116668.JavaMail.root@sz0094a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> <61017FCC3706464B8ACB770A8038174E371C45@OSTMAIL03VS3.ad.dot.gov> Message-ID: <5E3AA80EBBD94D86A8F493533B534922@Scorpio13> I read another blog post from writer Corry Doctorow today indicating this same problem: we do not own what we think we own. Doctorow in effect asked his readers to put themselves in the position of the purchaser of a Kindle 2. When the purchaser bought the device, it was advertised as having the ability to read e-books aloud. But when Amazon makes the technical changes that allow authors and publishers to disable their books, the Kindle 2 will not work as advertised at least some of the time. Amazon will probably coerce the purchaser into accepting this change by requiring that he or she download the firmware making this modification in order to be permitted to purchase more e-books. Nowadays the devices we purchase can turn on us, without warning and with no input from us, simply because the device manufacturer, under pressure from some faction or other, makes a firmware modification that causes an advertised feature to disappear or become severely restricted. Authors, Doctorow suggested, should be the last people to make themselves party to such a reading device--a device that controls how the reader can use content at the whim of third parties. I'll forward the original post to this list if I can find it, since Doctorow expressed the problem better than me and also made some very coherent arguments about why the Authors Guild is wrong about text-to-speech. Chris -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of craig.borne at dot.gov Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2009 2:10 PM To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Kindle E-Reader: A Trojan Horse for Free Thought Hi Craig, One major difference I see is that a library book is never owned by the patron. It is merely borrowed. On the other hand, the patron who purchases the electronic book on the Kindle is purchasing the same privileages as one who purchases a hard copy of the book, yet that purchase, though promising ownership of the book, is severely limited as to the portability of that book, which is not the case with a hard bound book. My impression of the article's focus was that we are indeed heading into a great technological age, but we also seem to be giving up certain privileages along the way. ITunes is another great example: I can purchase an entire albumn of music, but I am limited in how I want to listen to that music. I am also limited in allowing my neighbor to borrow the albumn to decide whether or not he is interested in purchasing it for himself (I am not suggesting any copying of the albumn in this example). Craig Craig Borne NHTSA/DOT (202) 493-0627 craig.borne at dot.gov -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Craig R. Anderson Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2009 1:05 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Kindle E-Reader: A Trojan Horse for Free Thought Dave, Heady thoughts indeed. But isn't Ms. Walsh a little too alarmist? How, after all, is a digitalized book on a Kindle Reader significantly different in this respect from a borrowed library book? Thanks in any event for posting the essay. Regards. Craig ----- David B Andrews wrote: > With all the discussion about the Kindle, and what it permits, and > doesn't permit, I thought this might be of interest to some. > > David Andrews > > > Kindle E-Reader: A Trojan Horse for Free Thought > > By Emily Walshe > The Christian Science Monitor > from the March 18, 2009 edition > <http://www.csmonitor.com/200 9/0318/p09s01-coop.html> > > Brookville, N.Y. - All you really need to know about > the dangers of digital commodification you learned in > kindergarten. > > Think back. Remember swapping your baloney sandwich for > Jell-o pudding? Now, imagine handing over your sandwich > and getting just a spoon. > > That's one trade you'd never make again. > > Yet that's just what millions of Americans are doing > every day when they read "books" on Kindle, Amazon's e- > reading device. In our rush to adopt new technologies, > we have too readily surrendered ownership in favor of > its twisted sister, access. > > Web 2.0 and its culture of collaboration supposedly > unleashed a sharing society. But we can share only what > we own. And as more and more content gets digitized, > commercialized, and monopolized, our cultural integrity > is threatened. The free and balanced flow of > information that gives shape to democratic society is > jeopardized. > > For now, though, Kindle is on fire in the marketplace. > Who could resist reading "what you want, when you want > it?" Access to more than 240,000 books is just seconds > away. And its "revolutionary electronic-paper display > ... looks and reads like real paper." > > But it comes with restrictions: You can't resell or > share your books - because you don't own them. You can > download only from Amazon's store, making it difficult > to read anything that is not routed through Amazon > first. You're not buying a book; you're buying access > to a book. No, it's not like borrowing a book from a > library, because there is no public investment. It's > like taking an interest-only mortgage out on > intellectual property. > > If our flailing economy is to teach us anything, it > might be that an on-demand world of universal access > (with words like lease, licensure, and liquidity) gets > us into trouble. Amazon and other e-media aggregators > know that digital text is the irrational exuberance of > the day, and so are seizing the opportunity to codify, > commodify, and control access for tomorrow. But access > doesn't "look and read" like printed paper at all - > just ask any forlorn investor. Access is useless > currency. > > Why is this important? Because Kindle is the kind of > technology that challenges media freedom and restricts > media pluralism. It exacerbates what historian William > Leach calls "the landscape of the temporary": a hyper > mobile and rootless society that prefers access to > ownership. Such a society is vulnerable to the dangers > of selective censorship and control. > > Digital rights management (DRM), which Kindle uses to > lock in its library, raises critical questions about > the nature of property and identity in digital culture. > Culture plays a large role - in some ways, larger than > government - in shaping who we are as individuals in a > society. The First Amendment protects our right to > participate in the production of that culture. The > widespread commodification of access is shaping nearly > every aspect of modern citizenship. There are benefits, > to be sure, but this transformation also poses a big- > time threat to free expression and assembly. > > When Facebook, for example, proposed revisions to its > terms of service last month - claiming ownership of > user profiles and personal data - the successful > backlash it spawned caused complex (even existential) > ideas about property, identity, and capitulation to > bubble up: Is my Facebook profile the essence of who I > am? If so, who owns me? > > The hallmark of a constitutionally governed society, > after all, is the acknowledgment that we are the > authors of our own experience. In an Internet age, this > is manifest not only in published works, but also an > ever-evolving host of user-generated content (Twitter, > Blogger, Facebook, YouTube, etc.). If service providers > lay claim to digital content now, how will it all end? > > Print may be dying, but the idea of print would be the > more critical demise: the idea that there needs to be a > record - an artifact of permanence, residence, and > posterity - that is independent of some well-appointed > thingamajig in order to be seen, touched, understood, > or wholly possessed. > > "You don't have to burn books to destroy a culture," > Ray Bradbury once said. "Just get people to stop > reading them." > > Access equals control. In this case, it is control over > what is read and what is not; what is referenced and > what is overlooked; what is retained and what is > deleted; what is and what seems to be. > > To kindle, we must remember, is to set fire to. The > combustible power of this device (and others like it) > lies in their quiet but constant claim to intangible, > algorithmic capital. What the Kindle should be igniting > is serious debate on the fundamental, inalienable right > to property in a digital age - and clarifying what's > yours, mine, and ours. > > It should strike a match against the winner-take-all > casino economies that this kind of technology > engenders; revitalize American libraries and other > social institutions in their quest to preserve the > doctrines of fair use and first sale (which allow for > free and lawful sharing); and finally, spark Americans > to consider the extent to which they are handing over > their baloney sandwich for a plastic spoon. > > Like a lot of people, I'm a sucker for a good book. But > not at the expense of freedom, or foreclosure of > thought. > > > Emily Walshe is a librarian and professor at Long > Island University in New York. > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mar.cra%40comc ast.net _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/craig.borne%40 dot.gov _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3979 (20090331) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3979 (20090331) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From cdanielsen8 at aol.com Tue Mar 31 22:08:55 2009 From: cdanielsen8 at aol.com (Chris Danielsen) Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2009 18:08:55 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Fw: Reading Rights Coalition UrgesAuthorsto AllowEveryone Access to E-books In-Reply-To: References: <7556b95a0903301147s5ef9d3b9ubf43957bd3e1787d@mail.gmail.com><682E6BAAC17F4FE29F65138991E41E72@Scorpio13><20090331115645.GH30293@yumi.bluecherry.net> Message-ID: <36D42C71D635459FAE59AF91ED334F57@Scorpio13> Jack, Both are problems. First, one simply shouldn't have to register to read a book that one has paid for. Nobody else has to. Blind people do have to register for library services and special distributors like Bookshare, but even our sighted friends have to get library cards. But when they go to the bookstore, all they have to do is pay for their book; it should be the same for us. The second issue, having to identify oneself as having a disability, is also nontrivial for some people. For one thing, not all reading disabilities are linked to an organic cause, putting the applicant in the position of having to "prove" the disability. For another, there are still places in this world where identifying oneself as having a disability can cause one to be instantly ostracized, possibly even institutionalized. Chris -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jack Chen Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2009 8:35 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Fw: Reading Rights Coalition UrgesAuthorsto AllowEveryone Access to E-books How would the problem be stated best? Is it an issue with having to register at all or is it a problem with the perception that such a registration list would label individuals as disabled? My apologies if my basic question offends anyone -- I'm just trying to understand the problem better. jack ----- Original Message ----- From: "T. Joseph Carter" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2009 7:56 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Fw: Reading Rights Coalition Urges Authorsto AllowEveryone Access to E-books >I think it's time we educate them. How do I wish I were in the area--I'd >LOVE to be there. > > Joseph > > On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 09:12:57PM -0400, Chris Danielsen wrote: >>The NFB has communicated directly with the Authors Guild. They have told >>us >>that they are willing for the TTS to be turned on for the disabled and no >>one else if there is a national registry of those with print disabilities. >>When we told them that this is unacceptable, they suggested that those who >>want to have books read aloud should pay a surcharge. >> >>Chris > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jackchenonline%40h otmail.com > _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3979 (20090331) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3979 (20090331) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From cdanielsen8 at aol.com Tue Mar 31 22:17:13 2009 From: cdanielsen8 at aol.com (Chris Danielsen) Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2009 18:17:13 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Fw: Reading Rights Coalition Urges AuthorstoAllowEveryone Access to E-books In-Reply-To: References: <3632128BE00345E7A3A982C3407FA5DC@Scorpio13> Message-ID: <976DD878819F4BADA11AC21CE39B428D@Scorpio13> Joe, Suggestions for other actions will soon be posted on the Web site www.readingrights.org. Chris -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Joe Orozco Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 10:27 PM To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Fw: Reading Rights Coalition Urges AuthorstoAllowEveryone Access to E-books Is there something those of us who cannot go to New York do to show support? Joe Orozco "A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the crowd."--Max Lucado -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Chris Danielsen Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 9:17 PM To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Fw: Reading Rights Coalition Urges Authors toAllowEveryone Access to E-books With Bookshare, you're not paying for the books you download. By contrast, if I buy a book like everyone else, it's nobody's business how I read it or why I'm reading it that way. Chris -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of E.J. Zufelt Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 6:15 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Fw: Reading Rights Coalition Urges Authors to AllowEveryone Access to E-books Is it immoral for Bookshare to require registration aswell? Everett On 30-Mar-09, at 2:21 PM, Michael Fry wrote: > It is awesome that so many organizations are coalescing around such a > noble and worthy cause. > > The Guilds position is immoral since it is infringes on human rights > and dignity because it exploits, for profit, a vulnerable minority of > the population. Requiring the disabled to 'register' - like some kind > of inferior animal - in order to use new, free, and innovative > text-to-speech technology places an unnecessary obstacle in path of > people with disablities. This obstacle is desgined solely to exploit > money from people without the time or inclination or, who are too > embarrassed to register, as a text disabled individuals. They are > attempting to bully extra profits out of people with disabilities. > The > Guild, comprised of enlightened and educated individuals, should be > ashamed since there is no explanation other than immoral greed for > their position. > > > On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 9:16 AM, Scott C. LaBarre > wrote: > >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Freeh, Jessica >> To: Alpidio Rolon ; Amy Buresh ; Anil Lewis ; Art Schreiber ; Beth >> Rival ; Bob Kresmer ; Carl Jacobsen ; Cathy Jackson ; Charlene Smyth >> ; Christine G. >> Hall ; Daniel Burke ; David Ticchi ; Don Galloway ; Donna Wood ; >> Elsie Lamp ; Frank Lee ; Franklin Shiner ; Fred Schroeder ; Fred >> Wurtzel ; Gary Ray ; Gary Wunder ; J.W. Smith ; James Antonacci ; >> James Broadnax ; Jennelle Bichler ; Jennifer Dunnam ; Jerree Harris ; >> Joe Ruffalo ; John Batron ; John Fritz ; Joyce Scanlan ; Kathy Davis >> ; Ken Rollman ; Kevan Worley ; Marie Johnson ; Mary Willows ; Melissa >> Riccobono ; Michael Barber ; Michael Freeman ; Nani Fife ; Pam Allen >> ; Parnell Diggs ; Patti Chang ; Richard Bennett ; Richard Gaffney ; >> Ron Brown ; Ron Gardner ; Sam Gleese ; Scott LaBarre ; Selena >> Sundling-Crawford ; Steven Priddle ; Terri Rupp ; Tommy Craig >> Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 7:09 AM >> Subject: Reading Rights Coalition Urges Authors to Allow Everyone >> Access to E-books >> >> >> FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE >> >> >> CONTACT: >> >> Chris Danielsen >> >> Director of Public Relations >> >> National Federation of the Blind >> >> (410) 659-9314, ext. 2330 >> >> (410) 262-1281 (Cell) >> cdanielsen at nfb.org >> >> >> >> Reading Rights Coalition Urges Authors to Allow Everyone Access to >> E-books >> >> >> >> Informational Protest to be Held at Authors Guild Headquarters >> >> >> >> New York City (March 30, 2009): The Reading Rights Coalition, which >> represents people who cannot read print, will protest the threatened >> removal of the text-to-speech function from e-books for the Amazon >> Kindle 2 outside the Authors Guild headquarters in New York City at >> 31 East 32nd Street on April 7, 2009, from noon to 2:00 p.m. The >> coalition includes the blind, people with dyslexia, people with >> learning or processing issues, seniors losing vision, people with >> spinal cord injuries, people recovering from strokes, and many others >> for whom the addition of text-to-speech on the Kindle 2 promised for >> the first time easy, mainstream access to over 245,000 books. >> >> >> >> When Amazon released the Kindle 2 electronic book reader on February >> 9, 2009, the company announced that the device would be able to read >> e- books aloud using text-to-speech technology. Under pressure from >> the Authors Guild, Amazon has announced that it will give authors and >> publishers the ability to disable the text-to-speech function on any >> or all of their e-books available for the Kindle 2. >> >> >> >> Dr. Marc Maurer, President of the National Federation of the Blind, >> said: >> "The blind and print-disabled have for years utilized text-to-speech >> technology to read and access information. As technology advances >> and more books move from hard-copy print to electronic formats, >> people with print disabilities have for the first time in history the >> opportunity to enjoy >> access to books on an equal basis with those who can read print. >> Authors >> and publishers who elect to disable text-to-speech for their e- books >> on the Kindle 2 prevent people who are blind or have >> >> other print disabilities from reading these e-books. This is blatant >> discrimination and we will not tolerate it." >> >> >> >> Mike Shuttic, president of the Association on Higher Education and >> Disability (AHEAD), said: "AHEAD envisions educational and societal >> environments that value disability and embody equality of >> opportunity. This vision of AHEAD is directly aligned with the >> efforts of this coalition. >> Although much rhetoric is made about potential obstacles and problems >> that >> exist, the basic goal is clear and simple--access for everyone. >> And why >> create something that prevents it?" >> >> >> >> Mitch Pomerantz, president of the American Council of the Blind, >> said: >> "Removing the text-to-speech features closes the door on an >> innovative technological solution that would make regular print books >> available to tens of thousands of individuals who are blind or >> visually impaired." >> >> >> >> Andrew Imparato, President and Chief Executive Officer for the >> American Association of People with Disabilities (AAPD), said: "It is >> outrageous when a technology device shuts out people with all kinds >> of disabilities. AAPD works to remove barriers to accessibility and >> usability in technology, and we don't expect to see people with >> disabilities singled out by having to pay more for access. New >> technologies, such as electronic books, should be available to >> everyone regardless of disability." >> >> Paul Schroeder, vice president of programs and policy for the >> American Foundation for the Blind, said: "Those of us with print >> disabilities have long dreamed of a world in which books and media >> are available to us at the same time as everyone else. The Kindle 2 >> offers that possibility for the first time. We hope publishers and >> authors come to see that text- to-speech is simply an alternative >> means of access to print." >> >> Dr. Peter Blanck, chairman and university professor at Burton Blatt >> Institute at Syracuse University, said: "As electronic books become >> the norm, denying universal access will result in more and more >> people with disabilities being left out of education, employment, and >> the societal conversation. We will all suffer from the absence of >> their participation and contribution to the debates that occupy us as >> a society." >> >> >> >> George Kerscher of the Digital Accessible Information System (DAISY) >> Consortium, said: "The DAISY Consortium envisions a world where >> people with print disabilities have equal access to information and >> knowledge, without delay or additional expense. Authors and >> publishers surely must share this vision. Now that the issue of >> human rights has been explained, and the opportunity for larger sales >> are known, I urge the Authors Guild to reverse their position on >> text-to-speech and join us in actively encouraging all publishers and >> reading technology developers to open the world of reading to >> everybody. Authors, join us on the picket line." >> >> >> >> >> >> Steve Jacobs, president of IDEAL Group Inc., said, "Not only is >> text-to-speech important to people who are blind, it is critical in >> providing quality educations to millions of young people who rely on >> text-to-speech to learn effectively. This includes students with >> autism, learning disabilities, mobility disabilities, and cognitive >> disabilities that impact their ability to acquire information with >> their eyes only. I remain hopeful that the talented members of the >> Authors Guild come to understand the potential negative impact of >> disabling the text-to- speech function on their e-books and >> reconsider their position." >> >> >> >> Cynthia D. Waddell, executive director of the International Center >> for Disability Resources on the Internet (ICDRI), said: "The mission >> of ICDRI supports the removal of barriers in electronic and >> information technology and the promotion of equal access. ICDRI >> welcomes the text-to-speech functionality being offered by the Kindle >> 2 since it increases mainstream access to books for the first time in >> history. We question why the Authors Guild demands that it be turned >> it off since many more books would be sold if text-to-speech was >> turned back on. Not only >> >> does this feature benefit persons with disabilities, but it also >> helps persons for whom English is not their native language. In an >> increasingly mobile society, flexibility in access to content >> improves the quality of life for everyone." >> >> >> >> James Love, director of Knowledge Ecology International, said: >> "Knowing >> full well that not everyone can see, the Authors Guild wants the >> right to be seen, but not heard. By bullying Amazon to change the >> technology of Kindle 2, the Authors Guild will either deny access to >> people who are disabled, or make them pay more. By attacking >> disabled persons in this way, the Authors Guild is attacking everyone >> who would otherwise benefit from the contributions this community has >> the potential to offer." >> >> >> >> James H. Wendorf, executive director for the National Center for >> Learning Disabilities, said: "Access to the written word is the >> cornerstone of education and democracy. New technologies must serve >> individuals with disabilities, not impede them. Our homes, schools >> and ultimately our economy rely on support for the future, not >> discriminating practices and beliefs from the past." >> >> While the Kindle 2 is not currently accessible to blind users, Amazon >> recently announced on its Kindle 2 blog that it is currently at work >> on making the device's navigational features accessible to the blind. >> >> >> >> The coalition includes: American Association of People with >> Disabilities, >> American Council of the Blind, American Foundation for the Blind, >> Association on Higher Education and Disability, Bazelon Center for >> Mental >> Health Law, Burton Blatt Institute, Digital Accessible Information >> System >> (DAISY) Consortium, Disability Rights Education and Defense Fund >> (DREDF), >> IDEAL Group, Inc., International Center for Disability Resources on >> the >> Internet, International Dyslexia Association, International Dyslexia >> Association--New York Branch, Knowledge Ecology International, >> Learning >> Disabilities Association of America, National Center for Learning >> Disabilities, National Disability Rights Network, National >> Federation of the >> Blind, NISH, and the National Spinal Cord Injury Association. In >> addition >> to the April 7 New York City protest, the coalition will >> participate in the >> Los Angeles Times Festival of Books on April 25-26. >> >> >> >> ### >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mikefr y79%40gmail. com >> > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/everet t%40zufelt.c a _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanie lsen8%40aol. com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3976 (20090330) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3976 (20090330) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jsoroz co%40gmail.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3973 (20090329) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3973 (20090329) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3979 (20090331) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3979 (20090331) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From carter.tjoseph at gmail.com Tue Mar 31 22:22:19 2009 From: carter.tjoseph at gmail.com (T. Joseph Carter) Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2009 15:22:19 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Fw: Reading Rights Coalition Urges Authorsto AllowEveryone Access to E-books In-Reply-To: References: <20090331115645.GH30293@yumi.bluecherry.net> Message-ID: <20090331222219.GD37084@yumi.bluecherry.net> Text-to-speech is clumsy at best, even when access technology is present, unless you are dealing with content specifically designed for text-to-speech. The complexity of the screen reader is not so much in getting it to tell you what text is drawn on the screen, but rather to intelligently determine what text to say, when to say it, and how. Is "sep" to indicate September or separator, or is it just a nonsense word or a typo? This is the easiest sort of problem a screen reader has to figure out. What you have in the case of the Kindle is a device whose firmware could--and would, with some coaxing from organizations like the NFB--be made to be useful by blind and sighted people alike. It is universal design, available to all. Using a talking Kindle, a blind person is, for all intents and purposes, the same as a sighted person. One who is dyslexic has the same access to the printed word as any bookworm. The device is a commodity product, the content is ready to be read by the eye or the TTS engine, and you can just pick it up and go. When I have the means to participate in society in the same way as my sighted peers by reading the same books, using the same methods, available to me at the same time and for the same price, I know it is respectable to be blind. I know this because to be blind is then clearly no different than to be sighted. That changes if I have to beg Amazon to consider me crippled enough to need to be allowed to have my books read to me, as a special concession to my pitiful state of just not having enough vision to read even the largest font size for a long period of time. Please Amazon, approve my request? Take pity on me, please? It truly is a matter of dignity. Is the accommodation obvious and available to anyone who needs it without justification necessary? Or is it something unreasonable that is provided only to those who truly need it, if they can prove their need outweighs the cost of allowing them special treatment? The Author's Guild seems to believe the latter. Joseph On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 08:34:47AM -0400, Jack Chen wrote: > How would the problem be stated best? Is it an issue with having to > register at all or is it a problem with the perception that such a > registration list would label individuals as disabled? My apologies if > my basic question offends anyone -- I'm just trying to understand the > problem better. > > jack > ----- Original Message ----- From: "T. Joseph Carter" > > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2009 7:56 AM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Fw: Reading Rights Coalition Urges Authorsto > AllowEveryone Access to E-books > > >> I think it's time we educate them. How do I wish I were in the >> area--I'd LOVE to be there. >> >> Joseph >> >> On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 09:12:57PM -0400, Chris Danielsen wrote: >>> The NFB has communicated directly with the Authors Guild. They have >>> told us >>> that they are willing for the TTS to be turned on for the disabled and no >>> one else if there is a national registry of those with print disabilities. >>> When we told them that this is unacceptable, they suggested that those who >>> want to have books read aloud should pay a surcharge. >>> >>> Chris >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jackchenonline%40hotmail.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/carter.tjoseph%40gmail.com From roddj12 at hotmail.com Tue Mar 31 22:36:42 2009 From: roddj12 at hotmail.com (Rod Alcidonis) Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2009 18:36:42 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Fw: Reading Rights Coalition Urges Authors toAllow Everyone Access to E-books In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Marc: Actually, I first argue that there is not a violation by listening to books on the Kindle, so the entity here has no rights to claim. That's my conclusion. I think the issue in this situation is that this entity is trying to assert a right but they don't know what that right is, so they call it copyright violation. Not many judges would buy this nonsense when a purchaser cannot even share the books on this device. In fact, this argument would not go beyond the courthouse. Think about it: it is impossible to violate the copyright of the entity even if one would want to. This machine is protected with security features. This entity would have had to prove that somehow, that by listening to the books, this in a way interferes with the features of the Kindle and this violates their rights because it would allow a blind person to start sharing the books. I am confident that this argument would suffer the same defects that the treasury department's argument suffered in the currency case, when they argued that because blind people had access to credit cards, they did not also require access to bills. You saw what happened there. Such an outcome, if it were adopted, would lead to situations where someone borrows a book, reads it, and give it back to the owner to also constitute copyright violations. This would be absurd. The current situation certainly would be proper use of the device. Secondly, I argued that this is different from bookshare because unlike the situation here, bookshare does not have any rights to the books; they are just distributing them. Keep in mind that this is an exception to the law; if it did not exist, bookshare's actions would be an obvious violation. Furthermore, Bookshare can violate copyright laws; the entity here cannot. Bookshare cannot give permission of any sorts to anyone to use these books; the entity here could and it has given permission to Amazon to use their property by putting it on the Kindle. Moreover, when a user downloads a book from Bookshare, this user can share it and violate copyrights; however, when a user purchases the Kindle, he/she cannot remove the books, transfers them, and shares them with his/her friends. These are two different situations, and as such, they both deserve independent legal analyses. Rod Alcidonis  Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009. Roger Williams University School of Law 10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 Bristol, RI 02809 Home: (401) 824-8685 Cell: (718) 704-4651  E-mail: roddj12 at hotmail.com -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of mworkman at ualberta.ca Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2009 12:53 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Fw: Reading Rights Coalition Urges Authors toAllow Everyone Access to E-books Rod, it looks to me like you are begging the question. You say the two cases are completely different because one involves distributing copyrighted material under the exception for persons with disabilities, and the other case does not involve a violation of copyright, but the latter point is exactly what is up for debate. The author's guild is claiming that the TTS on the Kindel is, in fact, a violation of copyright, which they are prepared to overlook as an exception for people with print disabilities, provided that people register, exactly as they must in the case of Bookshare. Personally, I don't think that TTS should be construed as a violation of copyright, but you can't say two cases are different because of X, and then simply assert X, as you have done. Marc -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]On Behalf Of Rod Alcidonis Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2009 8:13 AM To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Fw: Reading Rights Coalition Urges Authors toAllow Everyone Access to E-books Folks: this situation and that of bookshare is two different, and completely separate legal analyses. Let's not continue to mix the two. It is like mixing apples and oranges just because they are both known as fruits. Unlike as some have suggested, bookshare is required to verify your disability because it is a not-for-profit entity engaging in the distribution of copyrighted books to blind individuals. Distribution of copyrighted books would constitute a violation had bookshare not adhear to the requirement that its members are blind. It has nothing to do with you getting books nearly for free. Bookshare holds no right to these materials. Think of bookshare and RFBD as an exception to the general rule. This situation, however, involves not a copyright violation of any kind. No one is sharing copyrighted information. The information on this device is already being released with the entity's permission and attached conditions; rather, what's at issue here is that the entity is fearful that by allowing people to listen to books this way, in effect would interfere with some rights, which we are debating is unclear as to what that right is. By asking for people to registrer, the entity is seeking to place itself in the shoes of Bookshare and alike, but remember that it is a commercial entity. Unlike bookshare, this entity holds the copyrighted content on these devices. Rod Alcidonis  Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009. Roger Williams University School of Law 10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 Bristol, RI 02809 Home: (401) 824-8685 Cell: (718) 704-4651  E-mail: roddj12 at hotmail.com -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Shane D Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2009 8:35 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Fw: Reading Rights Coalition Urges Authors to Allow Everyone Access to E-books Re: Bookshare, we are being given nearly free access to copyrighted books. The $50/year goes to paying Bookshare's overhead. As such, Bookshare is required by law to varify our disabilities. However, Bookshare does not share with the publisher our disability information. I think the best analogy to this situation would be the Authors Guild taking a cut of Jaws proffit because it enables us to read books with audio. Bookshare is just a source for getting books. On 3/30/09, E.J. Zufelt wrote: > Good evening, > > One part of the argument was that: "The Guilds position is immoral > since it is infringes on human rights and dignity because it exploits, > for profit, a vulnerable minority >> >>> of the population. Requiring the disabled to 'register' - like >>> some kind >>> of inferior animal - in order to use new, free, and innovative text- >>> to-speech technology...". > > Understandably Bookshare.org is not for profit, however, the strongest > words in the above citation are related to having to "...register' - > like some kind of inferior animal...". If the registration > requirement for one service is acceptable how can the registration > requirement for a similar, but recognizably different, service been > seen as treating people like "inferior animals"? > > I agree that a method needs to be found to accommodate the needs of > all involved and to respect all current laws and the right of access > to information for the text-impaired population. However, the > "inferior animals" argument does not seem to have much foundation in > the facts. Perhaps the best solution is to require digital media > distributors to leave their publications unlocked for all readers, to > ensure the most open access to information for the text-impaired, > "inferior animals" does not seem to add any weight to the legal > argument on either side of this issue. > > Thanks, > Everett > > > On 30-Mar-09, at 9:11 PM, Rod Alcidonis wrote: > >> I can't tell you how much I hate it when a legal issue is seriously >> being >> debated on this list and someone comes along with a statement that >> is at >> best, uninformed. The current issue is not even close to a bookshare >> situation. I am afraid that this listserv might soon loses its >> character >> as a legal forum for blind legal professionals. Sad. >> >> Rod Alcidonis >> Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009. >> Roger Williams University School of Law >> 10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 >> Bristol, RI 02809 >> Home: (401) 824-8685 >> Cell: (718) 704-4651 >> E-mail: roddj12 at hotmail.com >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw- >> bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf Of E.J. Zufelt >> Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 6:15 PM >> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Fw: Reading Rights Coalition Urges Authors >> to Allow >> Everyone Access to E-books >> >> Is it immoral for Bookshare to require registration aswell? >> >> Everett >> >> >> On 30-Mar-09, at 2:21 PM, Michael Fry wrote: >> >>> It is awesome that so many organizations are coalescing around such >>> a noble >>> and worthy cause. >>> >>> The Guilds position is immoral since it is infringes on human rights >>> and dignity because it exploits, for profit, a vulnerable minority >>> of the >>> population. Requiring the disabled to 'register' - like some kind >>> of inferior animal - in order to use new, free, and >>> innovative text-to-speech technology places an unnecessary obstacle >>> in path >>> of people with disablities. This obstacle is desgined solely to >>> exploit >>> money from people without the time or inclination or, who are too >>> embarrassed to register, as a text disabled individuals. They are >>> attempting to bully extra profits out of people with disabilities. >>> The >>> Guild, comprised of enlightened and educated individuals, should be >>> ashamed >>> since there is no explanation other than immoral greed for their >>> position. >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 9:16 AM, Scott C. LaBarre >>> wrote: >>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: Freeh, Jessica >>>> To: Alpidio Rolon ; Amy Buresh ; Anil Lewis ; Art Schreiber ; Beth >>>> Rival ; >>>> Bob Kresmer ; Carl Jacobsen ; Cathy Jackson ; Charlene Smyth ; >>>> Christine G. >>>> Hall ; Daniel Burke ; David Ticchi ; Don Galloway ; Donna Wood ; >>>> Elsie Lamp >>>> ; Frank Lee ; Franklin Shiner ; Fred Schroeder ; Fred Wurtzel ; >>>> Gary Ray ; >>>> Gary Wunder ; J.W. Smith ; James Antonacci ; James Broadnax ; >>>> Jennelle >>>> Bichler ; Jennifer Dunnam ; Jerree Harris ; Joe Ruffalo ; John >>>> Batron ; John >>>> Fritz ; Joyce Scanlan ; Kathy Davis ; Ken Rollman ; Kevan Worley ; >>>> Marie >>>> Johnson ; Mary Willows ; Melissa Riccobono ; Michael Barber ; >>>> Michael >>>> Freeman ; Nani Fife ; Pam Allen ; Parnell Diggs ; Patti Chang ; >>>> Richard >>>> Bennett ; Richard Gaffney ; Ron Brown ; Ron Gardner ; Sam Gleese ; >>>> Scott >>>> LaBarre ; Selena Sundling-Crawford ; Steven Priddle ; Terri Rupp ; >>>> Tommy >>>> Craig >>>> Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 7:09 AM >>>> Subject: Reading Rights Coalition Urges Authors to Allow Everyone >>>> Access to >>>> E-books >>>> >>>> >>>> FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE >>>> >>>> >>>> CONTACT: >>>> >>>> Chris Danielsen >>>> >>>> Director of Public Relations >>>> >>>> National Federation of the Blind >>>> >>>> (410) 659-9314, ext. 2330 >>>> >>>> (410) 262-1281 (Cell) >>>> cdanielsen at nfb.org >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Reading Rights Coalition Urges Authors to Allow >>>> Everyone Access to E-books >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Informational Protest to be Held at Authors Guild Headquarters >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> New York City (March 30, 2009): The Reading Rights Coalition, which >>>> represents people who cannot read print, will protest the >>>> threatened removal >>>> of the text-to-speech function from e-books for the Amazon Kindle 2 >>>> outside >>>> the Authors Guild headquarters in New York City at 31 East 32nd >>>> Street on >>>> April 7, 2009, from noon to 2:00 p.m. The coalition includes the >>>> blind, >>>> people with dyslexia, people with learning or processing issues, >>>> seniors >>>> losing vision, people with spinal cord injuries, people recovering >>>> from >>>> strokes, and many others for whom the addition of text-to-speech on >>>> the >>>> Kindle 2 promised for the first time easy, mainstream access to >>>> over 245,000 >>>> books. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> When Amazon released the Kindle 2 electronic book reader on >>>> February 9, >>>> 2009, the company announced that the device would be able to read e- >>>> books >>>> aloud using text-to-speech technology. Under pressure from the >>>> Authors >>>> Guild, Amazon has announced that it will give authors and >>>> publishers the >>>> ability to disable the text-to-speech function on any or all of >>>> their >>>> e-books available for the Kindle 2. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Dr. Marc Maurer, President of the National Federation of the Blind, >>>> said: >>>> "The blind and print-disabled have for years utilized text-to-speech >>>> technology to read and access information. As technology advances >>>> and more >>>> books move from hard-copy print to electronic formats, people with >>>> print >>>> disabilities have for the first time in history the opportunity to >>>> enjoy >>>> access to books on an equal basis with those who can read print. >>>> Authors >>>> and publishers who elect to disable text-to-speech for their e- >>>> books on the >>>> Kindle 2 prevent people who are blind or have >>>> >>>> other print disabilities from reading these e-books. This is >>>> blatant >>>> discrimination and we will not tolerate it." >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Mike Shuttic, president of the Association on Higher Education and >>>> Disability (AHEAD), said: "AHEAD envisions educational and societal >>>> environments that value disability and embody equality of >>>> opportunity. This >>>> vision of AHEAD is directly aligned with the efforts of this >>>> coalition. >>>> Although much rhetoric is made about potential obstacles and >>>> problems that >>>> exist, the basic goal is clear and simple--access for everyone. >>>> And why >>>> create something that prevents it?" >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Mitch Pomerantz, president of the American Council of the Blind, >>>> said: >>>> "Removing the text-to-speech features closes the door on an >>>> innovative >>>> technological solution that would make regular print books >>>> available to tens >>>> of thousands of individuals who are blind or visually impaired." >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Andrew Imparato, President and Chief Executive Officer for the >>>> American >>>> Association of People with Disabilities (AAPD), said: "It is >>>> outrageous when >>>> a technology device shuts out people with all kinds of >>>> disabilities. AAPD >>>> works to remove barriers to accessibility and usability in >>>> technology, and >>>> we don't expect to see people with disabilities singled out by >>>> having to pay >>>> more for access. New technologies, such as electronic books, >>>> should be >>>> available to everyone regardless of disability." >>>> >>>> Paul Schroeder, vice president of programs and policy for the >>>> American >>>> Foundation for the Blind, said: "Those of us with print >>>> disabilities have >>>> long dreamed of a world in which books and media are available to >>>> us at the >>>> same time as everyone else. The Kindle 2 offers that possibility >>>> for the >>>> first time. We hope publishers and authors come to see that text- >>>> to-speech >>>> is simply an alternative means of access to print." >>>> >>>> Dr. Peter Blanck, chairman and university professor at Burton Blatt >>>> Institute at Syracuse University, said: "As electronic books become >>>> the >>>> norm, denying universal access will result in more and more people >>>> with >>>> disabilities being left out of education, employment, and the >>>> societal >>>> conversation. We will all suffer from the absence of their >>>> participation >>>> and contribution to the debates that occupy us as a society." >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> George Kerscher of the Digital Accessible Information System (DAISY) >>>> Consortium, said: "The DAISY Consortium envisions a world where >>>> people with >>>> print disabilities have equal access to information and knowledge, >>>> without >>>> delay or additional expense. Authors and publishers surely must >>>> share this >>>> vision. Now that the issue of human rights has been explained, and >>>> the >>>> opportunity for larger sales are known, I urge the Authors Guild to >>>> reverse >>>> their position on text-to-speech and join us in actively >>>> encouraging all >>>> publishers and reading technology developers to open the world of >>>> reading to >>>> everybody. Authors, join us on the picket line." >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Steve Jacobs, president of IDEAL Group Inc., said, "Not only is >>>> text-to-speech important to people who are blind, it is critical in >>>> providing quality educations to millions of young people who rely on >>>> text-to-speech to learn effectively. This includes students with >>>> autism, >>>> learning disabilities, mobility disabilities, and cognitive >>>> disabilities >>>> that impact their ability to acquire information with their eyes >>>> only. I >>>> remain hopeful that the talented members of the Authors Guild come >>>> to >>>> understand the potential negative impact of disabling the text-to- >>>> speech >>>> function on their e-books and reconsider their position." >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Cynthia D. Waddell, executive director of the International Center >>>> for >>>> Disability Resources on the Internet (ICDRI), said: "The mission >>>> of ICDRI >>>> supports the removal of barriers in electronic and information >>>> technology >>>> and the promotion of equal access. ICDRI welcomes the text-to- >>>> speech >>>> functionality being offered by the Kindle 2 since it increases >>>> mainstream >>>> access to books for the first time in history. We question why the >>>> Authors >>>> Guild demands that it be turned it off since many more books would >>>> be sold >>>> if text-to-speech was turned back on. Not only >>>> >>>> does this feature benefit persons with disabilities, but it also >>>> helps >>>> persons for whom English is not their native language. In an >>>> increasingly >>>> mobile society, flexibility in access to content improves the >>>> quality of >>>> life for everyone." >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> James Love, director of Knowledge Ecology International, said: >>>> "Knowing >>>> full well that not everyone can see, the Authors Guild wants the >>>> right to be >>>> seen, but not heard. By bullying Amazon to change the technology >>>> of Kindle >>>> 2, the Authors Guild will either deny access to people who are >>>> disabled, or >>>> make them pay more. By attacking disabled persons in this way, the >>>> Authors >>>> Guild is attacking everyone who would otherwise benefit from the >>>> contributions this community has the potential to offer." >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> James H. Wendorf, executive director for the National Center for >>>> Learning >>>> Disabilities, said: "Access to the written word is the cornerstone >>>> of >>>> education and democracy. New technologies must serve individuals >>>> with >>>> disabilities, not impede them. Our homes, schools and ultimately >>>> our >>>> economy rely on support for the future, not discriminating >>>> practices and >>>> beliefs from the past." >>>> >>>> While the Kindle 2 is not currently accessible to blind users, >>>> Amazon >>>> recently announced on its Kindle 2 blog that it is currently at >>>> work on >>>> making the device's navigational features accessible to the blind. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> The coalition includes: American Association of People with >>>> Disabilities, >>>> American Council of the Blind, American Foundation for the Blind, >>>> Association on Higher Education and Disability, Bazelon Center for >>>> Mental >>>> Health Law, Burton Blatt Institute, Digital Accessible Information >>>> System >>>> (DAISY) Consortium, Disability Rights Education and Defense Fund >>>> (DREDF), >>>> IDEAL Group, Inc., International Center for Disability Resources on >>>> the >>>> Internet, International Dyslexia Association, International Dyslexia >>>> Association--New York Branch, Knowledge Ecology International, >>>> Learning >>>> Disabilities Association of America, National Center for Learning >>>> Disabilities, National Disability Rights Network, National >>>> Federation of the >>>> Blind, NISH, and the National Spinal Cord Injury Association. In >>>> addition >>>> to the April 7 New York City protest, the coalition will >>>> participate in the >>>> Los Angeles Times Festival of Books on April 25-26. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ### >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> >>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mikefry79%40gmail >> >> . >> com >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for blindlaw: >>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/everett%40zufelt.c >> a >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail >> >> . >> com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/everett%40zufelt.c a > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/chatter8712%40gmai l.com > -- -Shane Website: http://www.blind-geek.com AIM: inhaddict MSN: shane at blind-geek.com Skype: chatter8712 Twitter: blind_geek _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail. com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mworkman%40ualbert a.ca _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail. com From mikefry79 at gmail.com Tue Mar 31 23:56:28 2009 From: mikefry79 at gmail.com (Michael Fry) Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2009 16:56:28 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Fw: Reading Rights Coalition UrgesAuthorsto AllowEveryone Access to E-books In-Reply-To: <36D42C71D635459FAE59AF91ED334F57@Scorpio13> References: <7556b95a0903301147s5ef9d3b9ubf43957bd3e1787d@mail.gmail.com> <682E6BAAC17F4FE29F65138991E41E72@Scorpio13> <20090331115645.GH30293@yumi.bluecherry.net> <36D42C71D635459FAE59AF91ED334F57@Scorpio13> Message-ID: <8c58e54a0903311656k1a416d41r7a292d005210b2c@mail.gmail.com> Hear, hear!! Really well said Chris. On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 3:08 PM, Chris Danielsen wrote: > Jack, > > Both are problems. First, one simply shouldn't have to register to read a > book that one has paid for. Nobody else has to. Blind people do have to > register for library services and special distributors like Bookshare, but > even our sighted friends have to get library cards. But when they go to the > bookstore, all they have to do is pay for their book; it should be the same > for us. The second issue, having to identify oneself as having a > disability, > is also nontrivial for some people. For one thing, not all reading > disabilities are linked to an organic cause, putting the applicant in the > position of having to "prove" the disability. For another, there are still > places in this world where identifying oneself as having a disability can > cause one to be instantly ostracized, possibly even institutionalized. > > Chris > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of Jack Chen > Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2009 8:35 AM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Fw: Reading Rights Coalition UrgesAuthorsto > AllowEveryone Access to E-books > > How would the problem be stated best? Is it an issue with having to > register at all or is it a problem with the perception that such a > registration list would label individuals as disabled? My apologies if my > basic question offends anyone -- I'm just trying to understand the problem > better. > > jack > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "T. Joseph Carter" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2009 7:56 AM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Fw: Reading Rights Coalition Urges Authorsto > AllowEveryone Access to E-books > > > >I think it's time we educate them. How do I wish I were in the area--I'd > >LOVE to be there. > > > > Joseph > > > > On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 09:12:57PM -0400, Chris Danielsen wrote: > >>The NFB has communicated directly with the Authors Guild. They have told > >>us > >>that they are willing for the TTS to be turned on for the disabled and no > >>one else if there is a national registry of those with print > disabilities. > >>When we told them that this is unacceptable, they suggested that those > who > >>want to have books read aloud should pay a surcharge. > >> > >>Chris > > > > _______________________________________________ > > blindlaw mailing list > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > blindlaw: > > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jackchenonline%40h > otmail.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. > com > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature > database 3979 (20090331) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature > database 3979 (20090331) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mikefry79%40gmail.com > From khagen12 at q.com Sun Mar 1 21:52:04 2009 From: khagen12 at q.com (Kathleen Hagen) Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2009 15:52:04 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] A good response on author Seth Goden's blog re the Literary Guild Message-ID: Beware of trade guilds maintaining the status quo I am not a member of the Author's Guild. Please don't blame me for their ludicrous positions. They have spoken out against public libraries, against used book stores online and now, against the Kindle reading books aloud. I used to have a record label, but I never joined the RIAA. You know, the guys that under Hilary Rosen made the multi-billion dollar mistake of trying to maintain the status quo by suing their users as a way of stopping file sharing. It's hard to overestimate how damaging relying on this single action was to an entire industry. I've eaten in restaurants, but I don't support the New York State Restaurant Association, which has spoken out against banning smoking in restaurants (it will wipe us out!) and now are giving the New York City health department a hard time for wanting to post easy-to-understand ratings of restaurant cleanliness. I drive a car, but I deplore the lobbying the car companies did to fight fuel efficiency rules--the very rules that would have transformed their industry and raised their profits. Whenever a trade association raises the barricades and tries to lobby their way into maintaining the status quo, they are doing their members a disservice. Instead of spending time and insight and effort reinventing what they do and organizing for a better future, the members are lulled into a sense of security that somehow, somehow, the future will be just like today. The key takeaway isn't that the lobbying doesn't work (though it usually doesn't). The problem is that the lobbying takes your attention away from the changes you can actually control and implement. Simple example: why doesn't the NYSRA have a staff of unofficial inspectors who help their members get an A when the real inspector comes around? Why didn't the RIAA help the record industry figure out how to transform into an industry that would embrace and leverage file sharing? You don't have to like change to take advantage of it. Technorati Links From stephanie_enyart at yahoo.com Mon Mar 2 04:53:47 2009 From: stephanie_enyart at yahoo.com (Stephanie Enyart) Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2009 20:53:47 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] LSAT Time limit In-Reply-To: <000b01c9987d$66802d60$33808820$@net> Message-ID: <000001c99af2$e0267670$0401a8c0@DF5R2QD1> Hi Bill, I used TestMasters to prepare for the LSAT. I bought an individual tutoring package. I felt they were friendly to blindness issues and know other blind people who have used them for preparation. Generally, blind people can get double time as an accommodation for the LSAT. A separate testing room, accessible clock/watch, and an amanuensis to complete the scantron sheet are also regularly approved accommodations for LSAT test takers who are blind. I also know one recent test taker who was able to take part of the test (which was all she/he asked for) on a computer equipped with Jaws. This person had to advocate for this accommodation but was successful in getting it for a test within the past year. As for the logic games section blind people ask for either a tactile drawing kit, a magnetic board with several sets of accessible magnetic letters or for those with low vision, some sort of large paper and markers or use of a CCTV to map out the games. Other accommodations blind/low vision people have received include: - use of a Braille note taking device - eye rest breaks - control of the lighting (including bringing your own lamps) - access to water - a human reader - a Braille test - enlarged scantron - large print test - use of a computer with Jaws and/or zoom text for the writing section Good luck with your test preparation! Stephanie Enyart -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Bill Spiry Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2009 5:48 PM To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Time limit Hi, I'll be taking the LSAT this June, wondering what you did to prepare for the test in terms of test prep training? Were you able to find any prep courses that were friendly to a person with blindness? Any input would be appreciated. In your request for accommodation in testing, what did you request for additional time? I look forward to hearing from you. Thanks. Bill Spiry 541-510-2623 Springfield Oregon -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of tim and vickie shaw Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2009 11:03 AM To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org Subject: [blindlaw] LSAT Time limit Man after taking the LSAT I have only two thoughts in mind. 1. I dont know how people without accoodations finish those sectiosn in the time they are allow. 2. Perhpas I wasnt given the extra time i was supposed to. I usually ask for extra time on tests, but this is the first time I have EVER used it, or i think i did. Usually i still finish well within the normal time limit, often beating meany people who werent given extra time. Since I wasnt allowed to wear a watch per the test rules I have no idea if I was given the extra time I was supposed to have or not. Oh well I finished everyting, jsut didnt have time to look back over my answer at all. _________________________________________________________________ Windows LiveT HotmailR:.more than just e-mail. http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t2_hm_justgotbetter_explore _022009 _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/bspiry%40comcast.n et _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stephanie_enyart%4 0yahoo.com From timandvickie at hotmail.com Mon Mar 2 05:30:42 2009 From: timandvickie at hotmail.com (Tim Shaw) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 05:30:42 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] LSAT Time limit In-Reply-To: <000001c99af2$e0267670$0401a8c0@DF5R2QD1> References: <000b01c9987d$66802d60$33808820$@net> <000001c99af2$e0267670$0401a8c0@DF5R2QD1> Message-ID: my accomodatiosn where time and a half one each section, 15 minutes break between each section, sepearate testing room, adjustable lighting, allowed to wear my ball cap and sunglasses if neded, use of markers and pens, use of my CCTV, use of computer for the wwriting section, and i think that was it > From: stephanie_enyart at yahoo.com > To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org > Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2009 20:53:47 -0800 > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Time limit > > Hi Bill, > I used TestMasters to prepare for the LSAT. I bought an individual tutoring > package. I felt they were friendly to blindness issues and know other blind > people who have used them for preparation. > > Generally, blind people can get double time as an accommodation for the > LSAT. A separate testing room, accessible clock/watch, and an amanuensis to > complete the scantron sheet are also regularly approved accommodations for > LSAT test takers who are blind. I also know one recent test taker who was > able to take part of the test (which was all she/he asked for) on a computer > equipped with Jaws. This person had to advocate for this accommodation but > was successful in getting it for a test within the past year. As for the > logic games section blind people ask for either a tactile drawing kit, a > magnetic board with several sets of accessible magnetic letters or for those > with low vision, some sort of large paper and markers or use of a CCTV to > map out the games. > > Other accommodations blind/low vision people have received include: > - use of a Braille note taking device > - eye rest breaks > - control of the lighting (including bringing your own lamps) > - access to water > - a human reader > - a Braille test > - enlarged scantron > - large print test > - use of a computer with Jaws and/or zoom text for the writing section > > Good luck with your test preparation! > Stephanie Enyart > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of Bill Spiry > Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2009 5:48 PM > To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Time limit > > Hi, I'll be taking the LSAT this June, wondering what you did to prepare for > the test in terms of test prep training? Were you able to find any prep > courses that were friendly to a person with blindness? Any input would be > appreciated. > In your request for accommodation in testing, what did you request for > additional time? > I look forward to hearing from you. Thanks. > Bill Spiry > 541-510-2623 > Springfield Oregon > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of tim and vickie shaw > Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2009 11:03 AM > To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org > Subject: [blindlaw] LSAT Time limit > > > Man after taking the LSAT I have only two thoughts in mind. > > > > 1. I dont know how people without accoodations finish those sectiosn in the > time they are allow. > > 2. Perhpas I wasnt given the extra time i was supposed to. > > > > I usually ask for extra time on tests, but this is the first time I have > EVER used it, or i think i did. Usually i still finish well within the > normal time limit, often beating meany people who werent given extra time. > Since I wasnt allowed to wear a watch per the test rules I have no idea if > I was given the extra time I was supposed to have or not. Oh well I finished > everyting, jsut didnt have time to look back over my answer at all. > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Windows LiveT HotmailR:.more than just e-mail. > http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t2_hm_justgotbetter_explore > _022009 > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/bspiry%40comcast.n > et > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stephanie_enyart%4 > 0yahoo.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/timandvickie%40hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live™ Groups: Create an online spot for your favorite groups to meet. http://windowslive.com/online/groups?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_groups_032009 From bspiry at comcast.net Mon Mar 2 05:33:50 2009 From: bspiry at comcast.net (Bill Spiry) Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2009 21:33:50 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] LSAT Time limit In-Reply-To: <000001c99af2$e0267670$0401a8c0@DF5R2QD1> References: <000b01c9987d$66802d60$33808820$@net> <000001c99af2$e0267670$0401a8c0@DF5R2QD1> Message-ID: <000d01c99af8$783eac70$68bc0550$@net> Stephanie, your feedback is great. Thanks much. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Stephanie Enyart Sent: Sunday, March 01, 2009 8:54 PM To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Time limit Hi Bill, I used TestMasters to prepare for the LSAT. I bought an individual tutoring package. I felt they were friendly to blindness issues and know other blind people who have used them for preparation. Generally, blind people can get double time as an accommodation for the LSAT. A separate testing room, accessible clock/watch, and an amanuensis to complete the scantron sheet are also regularly approved accommodations for LSAT test takers who are blind. I also know one recent test taker who was able to take part of the test (which was all she/he asked for) on a computer equipped with Jaws. This person had to advocate for this accommodation but was successful in getting it for a test within the past year. As for the logic games section blind people ask for either a tactile drawing kit, a magnetic board with several sets of accessible magnetic letters or for those with low vision, some sort of large paper and markers or use of a CCTV to map out the games. Other accommodations blind/low vision people have received include: - use of a Braille note taking device - eye rest breaks - control of the lighting (including bringing your own lamps) - access to water - a human reader - a Braille test - enlarged scantron - large print test - use of a computer with Jaws and/or zoom text for the writing section Good luck with your test preparation! Stephanie Enyart -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Bill Spiry Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2009 5:48 PM To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Time limit Hi, I'll be taking the LSAT this June, wondering what you did to prepare for the test in terms of test prep training? Were you able to find any prep courses that were friendly to a person with blindness? Any input would be appreciated. In your request for accommodation in testing, what did you request for additional time? I look forward to hearing from you. Thanks. Bill Spiry 541-510-2623 Springfield Oregon -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of tim and vickie shaw Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2009 11:03 AM To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org Subject: [blindlaw] LSAT Time limit Man after taking the LSAT I have only two thoughts in mind. 1. I dont know how people without accoodations finish those sectiosn in the time they are allow. 2. Perhpas I wasnt given the extra time i was supposed to. I usually ask for extra time on tests, but this is the first time I have EVER used it, or i think i did. Usually i still finish well within the normal time limit, often beating meany people who werent given extra time. Since I wasnt allowed to wear a watch per the test rules I have no idea if I was given the extra time I was supposed to have or not. Oh well I finished everyting, jsut didnt have time to look back over my answer at all. _________________________________________________________________ Windows LiveT HotmailR:.more than just e-mail. http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t2_hm_justgotbetter_explore _022009 _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/bspiry%40comcast.n et _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stephanie_enyart%4 0yahoo.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/bspiry%40comcast.n et From LRovig at nfb.org Mon Mar 2 22:04:32 2009 From: LRovig at nfb.org (Rovig, Lorraine) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 17:04:32 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Why the Authors Guild Is Off-Base About the Kindle 2 Message-ID: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6B731B74@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local> FYI... Two well-reasoned blogs. 1. FW: Canadian copyright lawyer deplores Kindle 2 move by Amazon and authors; and 2. Why the Authors Guild Is Off-Base About the Kindle 2 ________________________________ 1. Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 11:24 AM Subject: Canadian copyright lawyer deplores Kindle 2 move by Amazon and authors >From a Google Alert: EXCESS COPYRIGHT: Amazon Caves on Kindle By Howard Knopf This is tough luck for the blind, for all consumers and for innovative technology. Amazon owes a better explanation. There may be a "Kindle Swindle" underway here - but it's the public interest that appears to be the most obvious victim ... EXCESS COPYRIGHT - http://excesscopyright.blogspot.com/ URL to Canadian copyright lawyer's blog: http://excesscopyright.blogspot.com/search?updated-min=2009-01-01T00%3A0 0%3A00-05%3A00&updated-max=2010-01-01T00%3A00%3A00-05%3A00&max-results=4 3 2. NOTE: The author of this blog is the CEO of Thomas Nelson Publishing, one of the top book publishers in the US. From: On Behalf Of Michael Hyatt Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 10:03 AM To: Rovig, Lorraine Subject: Michael Hyatt's Blog Michael Hyatt's Blog Why the Authors Guild Is Off-Base About the Kindle 2 Posted: 02 Mar 2009 04:00 AM PST As you may know, the Amazon Kindle 2 has the ability to read books out loud. The text is read by the computer, so it doesn't come close to a true audio book read by the author or an actor. However, I have found it to be surprisingly useful. For example, last week when I received my new Kindle 2, I wanted to read through the user's manual. (I know, I am one of those kind of people.) So, early one morning, I started reading in the conventional way-at least conventional for an eBook. Eventually, it was time to get ready for the day. But rather than closing the book, I turned on the text-to-speech function and listened to the book while I shaved. The Kindle started reading at the top of the current page and continued until I stopped it. When I finished getting ready, I resumed my normal reading, at exactly the point the text-to-speech function had stopped. Amazing. But surprisingly, Ray Blout, Jr., the president of the Authors Guild, argued last week in the New York Times that Amazon's text-to-speech function is an infringement of the rights holders' "audio rights." Personally, I don't think this argument is valid, nor is it in the best interests of authors or publishers to maintain this position. As Amazon itself has argued , no audio is recorded. In principle, it is no different than me handing my book to a friend and asking him to read it aloud to me. Nothing is recorded. Nothing is performed. In fact, reading the book aloud is only made possible because I bought the print (or in this case digital) version of the book. >From my point-of-view, this feature is actually an added value that serves to make reading more accessible by more people in more situations. It also enables me to get through the book more quickly, so I can go buy more books. This, at a time, when, quite frankly, reading needs all the help it can get. Unfortunately, as Seth Godin , himself a bestselling author, argued yesterday , trade associations like the Authors Guild often hurt their own members by attempting to preserve the status quo. Instead, they should be celebrating this innovation and working to facilitate it. In the end, I personally believe Amazon's text-to-speech function will only help to drive more book sales for everyone. Sadly for the industry, Amazon backed off its original position . It will now allow publishers to "turn off" the text-to-speech function on a title-by-title basis. Ultimately, this will only hurt readers and eventually authors and publishers. In the meantime, we at Thomas Nelson intend to leave the feature on. If other publishers turn it off, great. It will only serve to give us-and our authors-a competitive advantage. Related posts: 1. More Details on the Amazon Kindle 2. The New Amazon Kindle 2 Unboxed 3. Kindle: First Impressions 4. The Book 2.0 5. Advice to First-Time Authors You are subscribed to email updates from Michael Hyatt To stop receiving these emails, you may unsubscribe now . Email delivery powered by Google Inbox too full? Subscribe to the feed version of Michael Hyatt in a feed reader. If you prefer to unsubscribe via postal mail, write to: Michael Hyatt, c/o Google, 20 W Kinzie, Chicago IL USA 60610 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.gif Type: image/gif Size: 997 bytes Desc: image001.gif URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image007.gif Type: image/gif Size: 73 bytes Desc: image007.gif URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... 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Name: image011.gif Type: image/gif Size: 683 bytes Desc: image011.gif URL: From mikefry79 at gmail.com Tue Mar 3 01:36:43 2009 From: mikefry79 at gmail.com (Michael Fry) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 17:36:43 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] Why the Authors Guild Is Off-Base About the Kindle 2 In-Reply-To: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6B731B74@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local> References: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6B731B74@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local> Message-ID: <8c58e54a0903021736v4908591fy5388f84065fd864a@mail.gmail.com> The Kindle 2 and its inevitable imitations will be really good for us. On Mon, Mar 2, 2009 at 2:04 PM, Rovig, Lorraine wrote: > FYI... Two well-reasoned blogs. 1. FW: Canadian copyright lawyer > deplores Kindle 2 move by Amazon and authors; and > > 2. Why the Authors Guild Is Off-Base About the Kindle 2 > > ________________________________ > > > > 1. > > Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 11:24 AM > Subject: Canadian copyright lawyer deplores Kindle 2 move by Amazon and > authors > > > > >From a Google Alert: > > EXCESS COPYRIGHT: Amazon Caves on Kindle > > > By Howard Knopf > This is tough luck for the blind, for all consumers and for innovative > technology. Amazon owes a better explanation. There may be a "Kindle > Swindle" underway here - but it's the public interest that appears to be > the most obvious victim ... > EXCESS COPYRIGHT - http://excesscopyright.blogspot.com/ > > > URL to Canadian copyright lawyer's blog: > > http://excesscopyright.blogspot.com/search?updated-min=2009-01-01T00%3A0 > 0%3A00-05%3A00&updated-max=2010-01-01T00%3A00%3A00-05%3A00&max-results=4 > 3 > > > > > > 2. > > NOTE: The author of this blog is the CEO of Thomas Nelson Publishing, > one of the top book publishers in the US. > > > > From: On Behalf Of Michael Hyatt > Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 10:03 AM > To: Rovig, Lorraine > Subject: Michael Hyatt's Blog > > > > > Michael Hyatt's Blog > > > > > > Why the Authors Guild Is Off-Base About the Kindle 2 > ors-guild-is-off-base-about-the-kindle-2.html> > > Posted: 02 Mar 2009 04:00 AM PST > > As you may know, the Amazon Kindle 2 > has the > ability to read books out loud. The text is read by the computer, so it > doesn't come close to a true audio book read by the author or an actor. > However, I have found it to be surprisingly useful. > > For example, last week when I received my new Kindle 2, I wanted to read > through the user's manual. (I know, I am one of those kind of people.) > So, early one morning, I started reading in the conventional way-at > least conventional for an eBook. > > Eventually, it was time to get ready for the day. But rather than > closing the book, I turned on the text-to-speech function and listened > to the book while I shaved. The Kindle started reading at the top of the > current page and continued until I stopped it. When I finished getting > ready, I resumed my normal reading, at exactly the point the > text-to-speech function had stopped. Amazing. > > But surprisingly, Ray Blout, Jr., the president of the Authors Guild, > argued last week in the New York Times > that > Amazon's text-to-speech function is an infringement of the rights > holders' "audio rights." Personally, I don't think this argument is > valid, nor is it in the best interests of authors or publishers to > maintain this position. > > As Amazon itself has argued > h-feature-in-kindle/> , no audio is recorded. In principle, it is no > different than me handing my book to a friend and asking him to read it > aloud to me. Nothing is recorded. Nothing is performed. In fact, reading > the book aloud is only made possible because I bought the print (or in > this case digital) version of the book. > > >From my point-of-view, this feature is actually an added value that > serves to make reading more accessible by more people in more > situations. It also enables me to get through the book more quickly, so > I can go buy more books. This, at a time, when, quite frankly, reading > needs all the help it can get. > > Unfortunately, as Seth Godin , himself a > bestselling author, argued yesterday > maintaining-the-status-quo.html> , trade associations like the Authors > Guild often hurt their own members by attempting to preserve the status > quo. Instead, they should be celebrating this innovation and working to > facilitate it. In the end, I personally believe Amazon's text-to-speech > function will only help to drive more book sales for everyone. > > Sadly for the industry, Amazon backed off its original position > h-feature-in-kindle/> . It will now allow publishers to "turn off" the > text-to-speech function on a title-by-title basis. Ultimately, this will > only hurt readers and eventually authors and publishers. > > In the meantime, we at Thomas Nelson intend to leave the feature on. If > other publishers turn it off, great. It will only serve to give us-and > our authors-a competitive advantage. > > Related posts: > > 1. More Details on the Amazon Kindle > > > > 2. The New Amazon Kindle 2 Unboxed > > > 3. Kindle: First Impressions > > > 4. The Book 2.0 > > > 5. Advice to First-Time Authors > > > > :yIl2AUoC8zA> > :D7DqB2pKExk> > :F7zBnMyn0Lo> > :qj6IDK7rITs> > > > > > > You are subscribed to email updates from Michael Hyatt > > To stop receiving these emails, you may unsubscribe now > he4RrYDI> . > > Email delivery powered by Google > > Inbox too full? Subscribe > to the feed version of > Michael Hyatt in a feed reader. > > If you prefer to unsubscribe via postal mail, write to: Michael Hyatt, > c/o Google, 20 W Kinzie, Chicago IL USA 60610 > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mikefry79%40gmail.com > > From carter.tjoseph at gmail.com Tue Mar 3 07:25:27 2009 From: carter.tjoseph at gmail.com (T. Joseph Carter) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 23:25:27 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] Why the Authors Guild Is Off-Base About the Kindle 2 In-Reply-To: <8c58e54a0903021736v4908591fy5388f84065fd864a@mail.gmail.com> References: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6B731B74@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local> <8c58e54a0903021736v4908591fy5388f84065fd864a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090303072527.GA32578@yumi.bluecherry.net> Why will the Kindle 2 being artificially crippled be good for us? On Mon, Mar 02, 2009 at 05:36:43PM -0800, Michael Fry wrote: >The Kindle 2 and its inevitable imitations will be really good for us. From mikefry79 at gmail.com Tue Mar 3 16:10:11 2009 From: mikefry79 at gmail.com (Michael Fry) Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2009 08:10:11 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] Why the Authors Guild Is Off-Base About the Kindle 2 In-Reply-To: <20090303072527.GA32578@yumi.bluecherry.net> References: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6B731B74@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local> <8c58e54a0903021736v4908591fy5388f84065fd864a@mail.gmail.com> <20090303072527.GA32578@yumi.bluecherry.net> Message-ID: <8c58e54a0903030810l666c5172kfac8a2b9e1cc0b07@mail.gmail.com> No, I didn't say that Joe. I meant the Kindle 2 will be good for us. Its artificial crippling will be very bad. I was just pointing out the obvious. On Mon, Mar 2, 2009 at 11:25 PM, T. Joseph Carter wrote: > Why will the Kindle 2 being artificially crippled be good for us? > > On Mon, Mar 02, 2009 at 05:36:43PM -0800, Michael Fry wrote: > >> The Kindle 2 and its inevitable imitations will be really good for us. >> > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mikefry79%40gmail.com > From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov Tue Mar 3 16:53:54 2009 From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel) Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2009 10:53:54 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] FW: Upcoming TIPS Program: Providing Persons with Disabilities and the Elderly with Equal Access to Justice Message-ID: F YI, blindlaw ________________________________ From: TIPS - Tort Trial & Insurance Practice Section [mailto:tips at abanet.org] Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 3:42 PM To: Subject: Upcoming TIPS Program: Providing Persons with Disabilities and the Elderly with Equal Access to Justice [http://www.abanet.org/tips/market/images/abablogo-emails5.gif][http://www.abanet.org/tips/market/images/tipstiny.jpg]Save The Date! An Exciting New Program You Won't Want to Miss Providing Persons with Disabilities and the Elderly with Equal Access to Justice Presented by the American Bar Association TIPS Standing Committee on Diversity in the Profession, Animal Law Committee and Stetson University College of Law A special thank you to our Sponsors, Carlton Fields and The Center for Special Needs Trust Administration, for hosting the program's social events. [http://www.abanet.org/tips/market/dog.jpg][http://www.abanet.org/tips/market/button.jpg][http://www.abanet.org/tips/market/cane.jpg][http://www.abanet.org/tips/market/wheelchair.jpg] Monday, May 18, 2009 William R. Eleazer Courtroom at Stetson University College of Law Gulfport, FL Don't miss your chance to attend this special one-day program that will address the unexplored and underdeveloped topic of making the litigation process more accessible for the elderly and persons with disabilities. Taking place at the William R. Eleazer Courtroom at Stetson University College of Law, a one-of-a-kind model courtroom showcasing how design and technology can address accessibility issues for individuals with disabilities and the elderly, this program will focus on courtroom design, the use of service animals, jury selection and access for jurors, parties, attorneys and judges. In addition, this program will feature a myriad of top-notch speakers who are leaders and experts in the field. A Glance at Some of the Program's Top-Notch Speakers: ? Matthew Dietz: P.L., Law Offices of Matthew Dietz, Miami, FL ? Professor Rebecca Morgan: Faculty Chair in Elder Law, Stetson University College of Law, Gulfport, FL ? George Richards: Chief Assistant Statewide Prosecutor, Florida Office of Statewide Prosecution, Fort Myers, FL ? Hon. Rosalyn Richter: New York Supreme Court County, New York, NY ? Marygrace Schaeffer: Vice President, DecisionQuest, Minneapolis, MN ? Page Ulrey: Senior Deputy Prosecuting Attorney, Courthouse Dog Program, King County Prosecutor's Office, Seattle, WA This program is co-sponsored by the TIPS General Committees of Health and Disability Insurance Law, Law Practice Management and Government Law, ABA Judicial Division, ABA Government and Public Sector Lawyers Division, ABA Commission on Mental and Physical Disability Law, ABA Criminal Justice Section, ABA Commission on Aging, ABA Senior Lawyers Division, ABA Section of Real Property, Trusts and Estates and The National Academy of Elder Law Attorneys. Be sure to set aside May 18th, 2009 for this program, which will also feature a live webcast! Additional details and registration information to follow. To learn more about TIPS or to join, click here. This page's menu: ________________________________ Your e-mail address will only be used within the ABA and its entities. We do not sell or rent e-mail addresses to anyone outside the ABA. Update your profile | Unsubscribe | Privacy Policy American Bar Association | 321 N Clark | Chicago, IL 60654 | 1-800-285-2221 --------- [http://www.abanet.org/disability/images/3Dlogo.jpg] Disability Discussion Docket (3D) ABA Commission on Mental and Physical Disability Law http://www.abanet.org/disability --------- To leave this list at any time, please send a message to listserv at mail.abanet.org. In the body of the message type "sign off cmpdl-3d." If you have any questions about 3D or the CMPDL in general, please contact William Phelan at phelanw at staff.abanet.org. From Tim.Ford at cdph.ca.gov Tue Mar 3 18:35:12 2009 From: Tim.Ford at cdph.ca.gov (Ford, Tim (CDPH-OLS)) Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2009 10:35:12 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] Simple Westlaw Site In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <839F18076C66C345BD1C0A4ACA67A1F60315B35F@dhsexcmsg12.intra.dhs.ca.gov> HI All, This may be old news, but I just learned that Westlaw has a version of its web site designed for wireless devices, hence it is extremely simple and clean. I did a sample search and it seems fine with JAWS. It is: www.wireless.westlaw.com Perhaps someone who needs to go on to Westlaw could check it out and report to the rest of us? Is it any better or easier than text.westlaw.com? Sincerely, Tim Ford From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov Tue Mar 3 21:35:39 2009 From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel) Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2009 15:35:39 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] FW: Attorney Vacancies at the U.S. Department of Justice Message-ID: ________________________________ From: jobs-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:jobs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Maurer, Patricia Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 11:47 AM To: jobs at nfbnet.org Subject: [Jobs] FW: Attorney Vacancies at the U.S. Department of Justice ________________________________ From: Hunter, Sue [mailto:Sue.Hunter at usdoj.gov] Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 2:28 PM To: nedy at wyjlaw.com; newmedia at ja.org; Neysas at dnfsb.gov; Maurer, Patricia; nijc at aol.com; nlove at opd.state.md.us; nmcconnell at jackscamp.com; noconnell at tabinc.org; noryrp at cox.net; nromulus at gmail.com; ntb at boglechang.com; ocaaba at cox.net; omanager at lawyerscomm.org; palsd at hotmail.com; patel at fr.com; pchanster at yahoo.com; pchapman at koonz.com; pgrewal at daycasebeer.com; pkim at lordbissell.com; Maurer, Patricia; pmorrison at state.wv.us; poppy.johnston at unlv.edu; president at abaw.org; president at apabala.org Subject: FW: Attorney Vacancies at the U.S. Department of Justice To learn more about our attorneys and what they like most about working at DOJ, please visit our attorney profiles at, http://www.usdoj.gov/oarm/arm/profiles.htm, and the video clips of our attorneys and interns available at https://www.avuedigitalservices.com/ads/jobsatdojoarm/index.jsp We encourage you to share this email with interested colleagues and peers. If you no longer wish to receive these periodic email announcements, please respond to this email address and ask to be removed from our mailing list. Thank you. Current Department of Justice Attorney Vacancies * UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE EASTERN DISTRICT OF CALIFORNIA ASSISTANT UNITED STATES ATTORNEY FRESNO, CALIFORNIA MARCH 2, 2009 09-EDCA-04A Applications should be postmarked no later than March 6, 2009. Date posted: 03-02-2009 * U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE OFFICE OF U.S. TRUSTEES WASHINGTON, D.C. SUPERVISORY TRIAL ATTORNEY/GS-15 Applications must be postmarked by midnight of the closing date of the announcement March 24, 2009. Date posted: 02-27-2009 * U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE U.S. TRUSTEE'S OFFICE -- NEW YORK, NEW YORK EXPERIENCED ATTORNEY/GS-14 to GS-15 This position will be open until March 03, 2009. Date posted: 02-27-2009 * ASSISTANT UNITED STATES ATTORNEY UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE EASTERN DISTRICT OF TENNESSEE VACANCY ANNOUNCEMENT #09-EDTN-AUSA-05 Applications must be received by Friday, March 20, 2009. Date posted: 02-25-2009 * ASSISTANT UNITED STATES ATTORNEY UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE Western District of Oklahoma 09-WDOK-11 Applications will be accepted until March 13, 2009. Date posted: 02-24-2009 * ASSISTANT UNITED STATES ATTORNEY UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE Western District of Oklahoma 09-WDOK-10 Applications will be accepted until March 13, 2009. Date posted: 02-24-2009 * U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE CRIMINAL DIVISION OFFICE OF OVERSEAS PROSECUTORIAL DEVELOPMENT, ASSISTANCE AND TRAINING EXPERIENCED ATTORNEY / GS-14 to GS-15 (Indonesia) Applications will be accepted until the position is filled. Date posted: 02-20-2009 * U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE CRIMINAL DIVISION OFFICE OF OVERSEAS PROSECUTORIAL DEVELOPMENT, ASSISTANCE AND TRAINING EXPERIENCED ATTORNEY / GS-14 to GS-15 (Albania) Applications will be accepted until the position is filled. Date posted: 02-20-2009 * U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE EXECUTIVE OFFICE FOR U.S. TRUSTEES WASHINGTON, D.C.(2) EXPERIENCED TRIAL ATTORNEYS (APPELLATE)/GS-14/15 ANNOUNCEMENT NO. 09-07-14003 Applications must be postmarked by the closing date of March 13, 2009. Date posted: 02-20-2009 * U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE EXECUTIVE OFFICE FOR U.S. TRUSTEES WASHINGTON, D.C.(2) EXPERIENCED ATTORNEYS (GENERAL ADMINISTRATIVE LAW)/GS-13/14/15 ANNOUNCEMENT NO. 09-07-14002 Applications must be postmarked by the closing date of March 13, 2009. Date posted: 02-20-2009 * U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE EXECUTIVE OFFICE FOR U.S. TRUSTEES WASHINGTON, D.C.(2) EXPERIENCED TRIAL ATTORNEYS/GS-15 ANNOUNCEMENT NO. 09-07-14001 Applications must be postmarked by the closing date of March 13, 2009. Date posted: 02-20-2009 * U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE OFFICE OF LEGAL COUNSEL EXPERIENCED ATTORNEYS GS-12 to GS-15 These positions are open until filled. Date posted: 02-19-2009 * EXPERIENCED FOREIGN CORRUPT PRACTICES ACT (FCPA) ENFORCEMENT ATTORNEY (GS-0905-13/14/15) FRAUD SECTION CRIMINAL DIVISION U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE WASHINGTON, DC VACANCY ANNOUNCEMENT: 09-CRM-FRD-005 This announcement is open until March 13, 2009. Date Posted: 02-19-2009 * U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE CRIMINAL DIVISION OFFICE OF OVERSEAS PROSECUTORIAL DEVELOPMENT, ASSISTANCE AND TRAINING EXPERIENCED ATTORNEY / GS-14 to GS-15 This assignment will commence in June 2009 and is for a term of one year. Date Posted: 02-17-2009 * ASSISTANT UNITED STATES ATTORNEY UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE EASTERN DISTRICT OF NEW YORK BROOKLYN, NEW YORK Position(s) open until filled. Date Posted: 02-17-2009 * ASSISTANT UNITED STATES ATTORNEY (CIVIL) UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF FLORIDA MIAMI, FLORIDA This position is opened until filled. Date Posted: 02-17-2009 * ASSISTANT UNITED STATES ATTORNEY (CRIMINAL) UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF FLORIDA MIAMI, FLORIDA This position is opened until filled. Date Posted: 02-17-2009 * DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE RESIDENT LEGAL ADVISOR IN IRAQ GS-905-15 OFFICE OF OVERSEAS PROSECUTORIAL DEVELOPMENT, ASSISTANCE AND TRAINING (OPDAT) CRIMINAL DIVISION WASHINGTON, D.C. Announcement Number: 09-CRM-OPDAT-004 Application Deadline: Open until filled. Date posted: 02-17-2009 * DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE RESIDENT LEGAL ADVISOR IN IRAQ OFFICE OF OVERSEAS PROSECUTORIAL DEVELOPMENT, ASSISTANCE AND TRAINING (OPDAT) CRIMINAL DIVISION WASHINGTON, D.C. Announcement Number: 09-CRM-DET-002 Application Deadline: Open until filled. Date posted: 02-17-2009 The purpose of this email is to advise potential interested persons of employment opportunities at the Department of Justice. The Department of Justice cannot control further dissemination and/or posting of this information. Such posting and/or dissemination is not an endorsement by the Department of the organization or group disseminating and/or posting the information. -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Jobs mailing list Jobs at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/jobs_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Jobs: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/jobs_nfbnet.org/noel.nightingale%40ed.gov From angie at mpmail.net Tue Mar 3 23:18:41 2009 From: angie at mpmail.net (Angie Matney) Date: Tue, 03 Mar 2009 18:18:41 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Simple Westlaw Site In-Reply-To: <839F18076C66C345BD1C0A4ACA67A1F60315B35F@dhsexcmsg12.intra.dhs.ca.gov> Message-ID: Hi Tim, Thanks for posting the link. It looks similar to text.westlaw.com to me. Like text.westlaw.com, it fails to provide supplemental results, and you can't see snippets of a result without clicking on it. But it might be great when I need to look things up on my phone. Angie On Tue, 3 Mar 2009 10:35:12 -0800, Ford, Tim (CDPH-OLS) wrote: >HI All, >This may be old news, but I just learned that Westlaw has a version of >its web site designed for wireless devices, hence it is extremely simple >and clean. I did a sample search and it seems fine with JAWS. It is: >www.wireless.westlaw.com >Perhaps someone who needs to go on to Westlaw could check it out and >report to the rest of us? Is it any better or easier than >text.westlaw.com? >Sincerely, >Tim Ford >_______________________________________________ >blindlaw mailing list >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie%40mpmail.net From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov Wed Mar 4 00:22:14 2009 From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel) Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2009 18:22:14 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] ABA Report: Disability Diversity Statistics 2009 Message-ID: Link: http://www.abanet.org/disability/docs/ABADisabilityStatisticsReport.pdf 2009 Disability Diversity Statistics: Taking data from the 2009 Goal III Report, this document is a compilation of statistics on individuals and lawyers with disabilities, their employment, and the legal profession. It is not specific to the ABA, and provides data sources from outside the ABA. This report is a great resource for those seeking general information on those with disabilities and the legal profession. From rumpole at roadrunner.com Wed Mar 4 02:01:22 2009 From: rumpole at roadrunner.com (Ross Doerr) Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2009 21:01:22 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] ABA Report: Disability Diversity Statistics 2009 References: Message-ID: That is an interesting report Noel - thank you for posting it. I am not a member of the ABA- so my status as a working attorney is not reflected there. But I must say that those overall, national employment statistics for all fields of employment are a bit discouraging. I note that report pre-dates the depression we are presently in. Note I said depression, not recession. I don't work in Washington. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nightingale, Noel" To: Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 7:22 PM Subject: [blindlaw] ABA Report: Disability Diversity Statistics 2009 > > Link: > http://www.abanet.org/disability/docs/ABADisabilityStatisticsReport.pdf > > 2009 Disability Diversity Statistics: Taking data from the 2009 Goal III > Report, this document is a compilation of statistics on individuals and > lawyers with disabilities, their employment, and the legal profession. It > is not specific to the ABA, and provides data sources from outside the > ABA. This report is a great resource for those seeking general information > on those with disabilities and the legal profession. > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rumpole%40roadrunner.com From info at michaelhingson.com Thu Mar 5 17:52:09 2009 From: info at michaelhingson.com (Michael Hingson) Date: Thu, 05 Mar 2009 12:52:09 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] KNFB Reader Mobile to be demonstrated on Tek Talk Training this Saturday, March 7, 2009 Message-ID: KNFB Reader Mobile to be demonstrated on Tek Talk Training this Saturday, March 7, 2009 Tek Talk Training special time Saturday March 7, 2009 This Saturday Michael Hingson, Director of National KnfbReader Mobile Sales for the National Federation of the Blind will demonstrate the exciting KnfbReader Mobile Reader product line for the blind and learning disabled - featuring the first cell phone that reads and translates print into voice. The knfb Reader Mobile is a major advancement in print access for the Blind. The software, delivered on a multifunction cell phone, allows the user To snap pictures of any printed material and have it read aloud immediately. The first of its kind, the pocket-sized device allows individuals to Have print analyzed and read aloud in real time and in real life situations. The latest version is now able to read in a variety of languages Including French, German, Dutch, Belgian Dutch, Italian, and Castilian. Additionally, the software is able to translate between languages, displaying and reading aloud translated text. Contact: Michael Hingson Email: info at michaelhingson.com 888-965-9191 Date: Saturday March 7, 2009. Time: 10:00 a.m. and 1:00 P.M Pacific, 11:00 a.m. and 2:00 P.M. Mountain, 12:00 p.m. and 3:00 P.M. Central, 1:00 p.m. and 4:00 p.m. Eastern and elsewhere in the world 18:00 and 21:00 GMT. Where: Tek Talk Conference Room at: http://conference321.com/masteradmin/room.asp?id=rsc9613dc89eb2 Or, alternatively, http://www.accessibleworld.org names on the sign-in screen. We will record at least one of the events and put it on Michael Hingson's web site http://knfbreader.michaelhingson.com so if you are unable to participate live at the above times then you may download the presentation or podcast from the website listed above. All online interactive programs require no password, are free of Charge, and open to anyone worldwide having an Internet connection, a Computer, speakers, and a sound card. Those with microphones can interact audibly with the presenters and others in the virtual audience. If you are a first-time user of the Talking Communities online conferencing software, there is a small, safe software program that you need to download and then run. A link to the software is available on every entry screen to the Accessible World online rooms. Sign up information for all Accessible World News Wires and discussion lists are also available at the Accessible World website: http://www.accessibleworld.org Media Contacts for Accessible World: Robert Acosta, Chair, Planning Committee 818-998-0044 Email: boacosta at pacbell.net <http://us.mc836.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=boacosta at pacbell.net Web: http://www.helpinghands4theblind.com George Buys CEO. Talking Communities Email: buys at talkingcommunities.com <mailto:buys at talkingcommunities.com We wish to thank the Accessible world for permitting us to use its conference room for these demonstrations of the KnfbReader Mobile. The Accessible World, a division of Vision Worldwide, Inc. a 501(c) (3) not-for-profit organization, seeks to educate the general public, the disabled community and the professionals who serve them by providing highly relevant information about new products, services, and training opportunities designed specifically to eliminate geographic and access barriers that adversely affect them. The Michael Hingson Group "Speaking with Vision" Michael Hingson, President (415) 827-4084 info at michaelhingson.com www.michaelhingson.com for info on the new KNFB Reader Mobile, visit: http://knfbreader.michaelhingson.com http://michaelhingson.com/images/knfbReader-michael_hingson.jpg -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 16fb5c.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 3059 bytes Desc: not available URL: From JMcCarthy at nfb.org Thu Mar 5 19:13:59 2009 From: JMcCarthy at nfb.org (McCarthy, Jim) Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 14:13:59 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Register Now for the 2009 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium, Message-ID: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6B26D604@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local> I have been asked to share the announcement that follows with this list. Register Now for the 2009 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium, New Perspectives on Disability Law: Advancing the Right to Live in the World The 2009 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium will take place on April 17th at the National Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute in Baltimore. Don't miss this exciting opportunity to interact with leading scholars, government officials, and advocates. The presenters for the 2009 symposium are: * A leading Obama administration spokesperson on disability policy; * Maura Healey, Assistant Attorney General and Chief, Office of Civil Rights, Commonwealth of Massachusetts; * Amy Robertson and Timothy Fox, Principals, Fox & Robertson, P.C.; * Gerard Quinn, Professor of Law, National University of Ireland, Galway; * Katherine Guernsey, International Lawyer and Adjunct Professor, American University School of International Service; * Samuel Bagenstos, Visiting Professor of Law, University of Michigan Law School; * Christine Griffin, Commissioner, United States Equal Employment Opportunity Commission; and * Peter Blanck, University Professor and Chairman, Burton Blatt Institute at Syracuse University. To view the full agenda, register online, or download the registration form to register by mail or fax, visit the symposium web page at http://www.nfb.org/nfb/Law_Symposium.asp. Hotel information may also be found on the symposium Web page. The registration fee is $150; students may register for $20. A limited number of scholarships to cover the registration fee will be available to individuals with demonstrated financial need. The deadline to register is April 10, 2009. Symposium attendees will be provided documentation for CLE credit. Individuals will be responsible for filing the application for CLE credit with their state board. The 2009 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium is sponsored by the National Federation of the Blind, the American Bar Association Commission on Mental and Physical Disability Law, the Maryland Department of Disability, and the Texas Journal on Civil Liberties and Civil Rights. For additional information about the symposium, contact: Lou Ann Blake, Law Symposium Coordinator National Federation of the Blind Telephone: (410) 659-9314, ext. 2221 E-mail: lblake at nfb.org From rumpole at roadrunner.com Thu Mar 5 23:28:51 2009 From: rumpole at roadrunner.com (Ross Doerr) Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 18:28:51 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] ABA report on employment of lawyers with disabilities Message-ID: <3CDD15A2612F4EB3AF6B89463319B295@Rosslaptop> Does anyone have the link to that ABA report on employment of PWD in the legal profession? IT was posted here not too long ago, and I seem to have deleted it by mistake. Thanks. From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Fri Mar 6 06:29:27 2009 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 22:29:27 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] Fw: ABA Report: Disability Diversity Statistics 2009 Message-ID: <3515503A1A25403C8C3F718A17841E31@spike> Here is the original posting for the report. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nightingale, Noel" To: Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 4:22 PM Subject: [blindlaw] ABA Report: Disability Diversity Statistics 2009 > > Link: > http://www.abanet.org/disability/docs/ABADisabilityStatisticsReport.pdf > > 2009 Disability Diversity Statistics: Taking data from the 2009 Goal III > Report, this document is a compilation of statistics on individuals and > lawyers with disabilities, their employment, and the legal profession. It > is not specific to the ABA, and provides data sources from outside the > ABA. This report is a great resource for those seeking general information > on those with disabilities and the legal profession. > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net From angie at mpmail.net Fri Mar 6 12:57:57 2009 From: angie at mpmail.net (Angie Matney) Date: Fri, 06 Mar 2009 07:57:57 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] ABA report on employment of lawyers with disabilities In-Reply-To: <3CDD15A2612F4EB3AF6B89463319B295@Rosslaptop> Message-ID: Hi Ross, Here's the link: http://www.abanet.org/disability/docs/ABADisabilityStatisticsReport.pdf Angie From rumpole at roadrunner.com Fri Mar 6 10:08:54 2009 From: rumpole at roadrunner.com (Ross Doerr) Date: Fri, 6 Mar 2009 05:08:54 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Fw: ABA Report: Disability Diversity Statistics 2009 References: <3515503A1A25403C8C3F718A17841E31@spike> Message-ID: Thank you Chuck, I appreciate it. Ross ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Friday, March 06, 2009 1:29 AM Subject: [blindlaw] Fw: ABA Report: Disability Diversity Statistics 2009 > Here is the original posting for the report. > Chuck > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Nightingale, Noel" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 4:22 PM > Subject: [blindlaw] ABA Report: Disability Diversity Statistics 2009 > > >> >> Link: >> http://www.abanet.org/disability/docs/ABADisabilityStatisticsReport.pdf >> >> 2009 Disability Diversity Statistics: Taking data from the 2009 Goal III >> Report, this document is a compilation of statistics on individuals and >> lawyers with disabilities, their employment, and the legal profession. It >> is not specific to the ABA, and provides data sources from outside the >> ABA. This report is a great resource for those seeking general >> information on those with disabilities and the legal profession. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rumpole%40adelphia.net From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov Fri Mar 6 17:20:53 2009 From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel) Date: Fri, 6 Mar 2009 11:20:53 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] FW: Law Students Report Positive Reaction to No-Laptop Policy, ABA Journal, March 5, 2009 Message-ID: Blindlaw listers: This article struck me as showing one edge blind law students and lawyers may have over their sighted counterparts, who apparently need to look at their screens rather than at the person who is speaking! Noel Link: http://www.abajournal.com/weekly/law_students_report_positive_reaction_to_no-laptop_policy Text: Law Students Report Positive Reaction to No-Laptop Policy Posted Mar 5, 2009 By Debra Cassens Weiss A law professor who banned laptops in his first-year criminal law class surveyed his students about their reaction-and found it was generally positive. UCLA law professor Eugene Volokh had the results in a memo to his collegues (PDF) and on his blog, The Volokh Conspiracy. Seventy-one percent of the students who responded reported the policy had a strongly positive or slightly positive effect on their concentration in class. Fifty-four percent said it had a positive effect on their overall enjoyment of the course. Only 36 percent reported a positive influence on learning, though; 41 percent said the experience was neutral in regard to learning. One student pointed out that the experiment had a negative effect on trees. The student's e-mail to Volokh said those who brief cases on their computers have to print out their notes for class. And those who want their class notes neatly typed and available on their laptop have to transcribe classroom notes. While students were positive, Volokh said he noted no material differences in classroom discussions. He suspects 1Ls tend to be engaged, and they often find criminal law particularly interesting. He wonders if the results would be different in classes with little voluntary class participation. Earlier this week on Prawfsblawg, Howard Wasserman, an associate law professor at Florida International University, noted that his own classroom laptop ban was going better than he had hoped. "I never realized how much I missed eye contact," Wasserman wrote. "Even the bored and checked-out students at least look up at me. And when students have to look up, you can get a sense from their eyes as to whether they are 'getting' what you were talking about and adjust accordingly. I also never realized how loud keyboards are when 75 students are typing simultaneously." He noted that he'll have to wait for class evaluations at the end of the semester to see what his students think of the ban. From chatter8712 at gmail.com Fri Mar 6 17:24:58 2009 From: chatter8712 at gmail.com (Shane D) Date: Fri, 6 Mar 2009 12:24:58 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] FW: Law Students Report Positive Reaction to No-Laptop Policy, ABA Journal, March 5, 2009 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7556b95a0903060924p4ebe301m9550c91abf413c4d@mail.gmail.com> That could be a harmful practice to a blind person in the class, though. I'm sure they'd have to make the exception in that case. On 3/6/09, Nightingale, Noel wrote: > Blindlaw listers: > > This article struck me as showing one edge blind law students and lawyers > may have over their sighted counterparts, who apparently need to look at > their screens rather than at the person who is speaking! > > Noel > > > > Link: > http://www.abajournal.com/weekly/law_students_report_positive_reaction_to_no-laptop_policy > > Text: > Law Students Report Positive Reaction to No-Laptop Policy > Posted Mar 5, 2009 > By Debra Cassens Weiss > > A law professor who banned laptops in his first-year criminal law class > surveyed his students about their reaction-and found it was generally > positive. > > UCLA law professor Eugene Volokh had the results in a memo to his collegues > (PDF) and on his blog, The Volokh Conspiracy. > > Seventy-one percent of the students who responded reported the policy had a > strongly positive or slightly positive effect on their concentration in > class. Fifty-four percent said it had a positive effect on their overall > enjoyment of the course. > > Only 36 percent reported a positive influence on learning, though; 41 > percent said the experience was neutral in regard to learning. > > One student pointed out that the experiment had a negative effect on trees. > The student's e-mail to Volokh said those who brief cases on their computers > have to print out their notes for class. And those who want their class > notes neatly typed and available on their laptop have to transcribe > classroom notes. > > While students were positive, Volokh said he noted no material differences > in classroom discussions. He suspects 1Ls tend to be engaged, and they often > find criminal law particularly interesting. He wonders if the results would > be different in classes with little voluntary class participation. > > Earlier this week on Prawfsblawg, Howard Wasserman, an associate law > professor at Florida International University, noted that his own classroom > laptop ban was going better than he had hoped. > > "I never realized how much I missed eye contact," Wasserman wrote. "Even the > bored and checked-out students at least look up at me. And when students > have to look up, you can get a sense from their eyes as to whether they are > 'getting' what you were talking about and adjust accordingly. I also never > realized how loud keyboards are when 75 students are typing simultaneously." > > He noted that he'll have to wait for class evaluations at the end of the > semester to see what his students think of the ban. > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/chatter8712%40gmail.com > -- -Shane Website: http://www.blind-geek.com AIM: inhaddict MSN: shane at blind-geek.com Skype: chatter8712 Twitter: blind_geek From bspiry at comcast.net Fri Mar 6 19:17:15 2009 From: bspiry at comcast.net (Bill Spiry) Date: Fri, 6 Mar 2009 11:17:15 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] FW: Law Students Report Positive Reaction to No-Laptop Policy, ABA Journal, March 5, 2009 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <003601c99e90$29948bd0$7cbda370$@net> Interesting. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Nightingale, Noel Sent: Friday, March 06, 2009 9:21 AM To: 'blindlaw at nfbnet.org' Subject: [blindlaw] FW: Law Students Report Positive Reaction to No-Laptop Policy, ABA Journal, March 5, 2009 Blindlaw listers: This article struck me as showing one edge blind law students and lawyers may have over their sighted counterparts, who apparently need to look at their screens rather than at the person who is speaking! Noel Link: http://www.abajournal.com/weekly/law_students_report_positive_reaction_to_no -laptop_policy Text: Law Students Report Positive Reaction to No-Laptop Policy Posted Mar 5, 2009 By Debra Cassens Weiss A law professor who banned laptops in his first-year criminal law class surveyed his students about their reaction-and found it was generally positive. UCLA law professor Eugene Volokh had the results in a memo to his collegues (PDF) and on his blog, The Volokh Conspiracy. Seventy-one percent of the students who responded reported the policy had a strongly positive or slightly positive effect on their concentration in class. Fifty-four percent said it had a positive effect on their overall enjoyment of the course. Only 36 percent reported a positive influence on learning, though; 41 percent said the experience was neutral in regard to learning. One student pointed out that the experiment had a negative effect on trees. The student's e-mail to Volokh said those who brief cases on their computers have to print out their notes for class. And those who want their class notes neatly typed and available on their laptop have to transcribe classroom notes. While students were positive, Volokh said he noted no material differences in classroom discussions. He suspects 1Ls tend to be engaged, and they often find criminal law particularly interesting. He wonders if the results would be different in classes with little voluntary class participation. Earlier this week on Prawfsblawg, Howard Wasserman, an associate law professor at Florida International University, noted that his own classroom laptop ban was going better than he had hoped. "I never realized how much I missed eye contact," Wasserman wrote. "Even the bored and checked-out students at least look up at me. And when students have to look up, you can get a sense from their eyes as to whether they are 'getting' what you were talking about and adjust accordingly. I also never realized how loud keyboards are when 75 students are typing simultaneously." He noted that he'll have to wait for class evaluations at the end of the semester to see what his students think of the ban. _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/bspiry%40comcast.n et From rjtlawfirm at yahoo.com Fri Mar 6 19:56:18 2009 From: rjtlawfirm at yahoo.com (Russell J. Thomas, Jr) Date: Fri, 6 Mar 2009 11:56:18 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] FW: Law Students Report Positive Reaction to No-Laptop Policy, ABA Journal, March 5, 2009 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <000601c99e95$9dcf8b30$6901a8c0@RThomas> This is a step backward for any blind person who prefers to take notes on a laptop. This is stone-age thinking. Is this prof's ego so big, that he somehow feels slighted if his students are not looking at him? Respectfully, Russell J. Thomas, Jr. THOMAS & ASSOCIATES www.employersattorneys.com Orange County Office 4121 Westerly Place, Suite 101 Newport Beach, California 92660 T: (949) 752-0101 F: (949) 257-4756 M: (949) 466-7238 Beverly Hills Office 9107 Wilshire Boulevard, Suite 450 Beverly Hills, California 90210 T: (310) 461-3561 -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Nightingale, Noel Sent: Friday, March 06, 2009 9:21 AM To: 'blindlaw at nfbnet.org' Subject: [blindlaw] FW: Law Students Report Positive Reaction to No-Laptop Policy, ABA Journal, March 5, 2009 Blindlaw listers: This article struck me as showing one edge blind law students and lawyers may have over their sighted counterparts, who apparently need to look at their screens rather than at the person who is speaking! Noel Link: http://www.abajournal.com/weekly/law_students_report_positive_reaction_to_no -laptop_policy Text: Law Students Report Positive Reaction to No-Laptop Policy Posted Mar 5, 2009 By Debra Cassens Weiss A law professor who banned laptops in his first-year criminal law class surveyed his students about their reaction-and found it was generally positive. UCLA law professor Eugene Volokh had the results in a memo to his collegues (PDF) and on his blog, The Volokh Conspiracy. Seventy-one percent of the students who responded reported the policy had a strongly positive or slightly positive effect on their concentration in class. Fifty-four percent said it had a positive effect on their overall enjoyment of the course. Only 36 percent reported a positive influence on learning, though; 41 percent said the experience was neutral in regard to learning. One student pointed out that the experiment had a negative effect on trees. The student's e-mail to Volokh said those who brief cases on their computers have to print out their notes for class. And those who want their class notes neatly typed and available on their laptop have to transcribe classroom notes. While students were positive, Volokh said he noted no material differences in classroom discussions. He suspects 1Ls tend to be engaged, and they often find criminal law particularly interesting. He wonders if the results would be different in classes with little voluntary class participation. Earlier this week on Prawfsblawg, Howard Wasserman, an associate law professor at Florida International University, noted that his own classroom laptop ban was going better than he had hoped. "I never realized how much I missed eye contact," Wasserman wrote. "Even the bored and checked-out students at least look up at me. And when students have to look up, you can get a sense from their eyes as to whether they are 'getting' what you were talking about and adjust accordingly. I also never realized how loud keyboards are when 75 students are typing simultaneously." He noted that he'll have to wait for class evaluations at the end of the semester to see what his students think of the ban. _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rjtlawfirm%40yahoo .com From angie at mpmail.net Fri Mar 6 20:22:15 2009 From: angie at mpmail.net (Angie Matney) Date: Fri, 06 Mar 2009 15:22:15 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] FW: Law Students Report Positive Reaction to No-Laptop Policy, ABA Journal, March 5, 2009 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi Noel, You're right! We can be distracted through our earphones or braille displays, and no one's the wiser. Oh, wait...that's not what you meant? (grin) In all seriousness, I have started using a cell phone with a bluetooth keyboard and bluetooth 12-cell braille display for notetaking. It is a great portable system. Angie On Fri, 6 Mar 2009 11:20:53 -0600, Nightingale, Noel wrote: >Blindlaw listers: >This article struck me as showing one edge blind law students and lawyers may have over their sighted counterparts, who apparently need to look at their screens rather than at the person who is speaking! From jbar at barcore.com Fri Mar 6 21:33:20 2009 From: jbar at barcore.com (Jim Barbour) Date: Fri, 6 Mar 2009 13:33:20 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] FW: Law Students Report Positive Reaction to No-Laptop Policy, ABA Journal, March 5, 2009 In-Reply-To: <7556b95a0903060924p4ebe301m9550c91abf413c4d@mail.gmail.com> References: <7556b95a0903060924p4ebe301m9550c91abf413c4d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090306213320.GA3938@barcore.com> Harmful practice? Jim On Fri, Mar 06, 2009 at 12:24:58PM -0500, Shane D wrote: > That could be a harmful practice to a blind person in the class, > though. I'm sure they'd have to make the exception in that case. > > On 3/6/09, Nightingale, Noel wrote: > > Blindlaw listers: > > > > This article struck me as showing one edge blind law students and lawyers > > may have over their sighted counterparts, who apparently need to look at > > their screens rather than at the person who is speaking! > > > > Noel > > > > > > > > Link: > > http://www.abajournal.com/weekly/law_students_report_positive_reaction_to_no-laptop_policy > > > > Text: > > Law Students Report Positive Reaction to No-Laptop Policy > > Posted Mar 5, 2009 > > By Debra Cassens Weiss > > > > A law professor who banned laptops in his first-year criminal law class > > surveyed his students about their reaction-and found it was generally > > positive. > > > > UCLA law professor Eugene Volokh had the results in a memo to his collegues > > (PDF) and on his blog, The Volokh Conspiracy. > > > > Seventy-one percent of the students who responded reported the policy had a > > strongly positive or slightly positive effect on their concentration in > > class. Fifty-four percent said it had a positive effect on their overall > > enjoyment of the course. > > > > Only 36 percent reported a positive influence on learning, though; 41 > > percent said the experience was neutral in regard to learning. > > > > One student pointed out that the experiment had a negative effect on trees. > > The student's e-mail to Volokh said those who brief cases on their computers > > have to print out their notes for class. And those who want their class > > notes neatly typed and available on their laptop have to transcribe > > classroom notes. > > > > While students were positive, Volokh said he noted no material differences > > in classroom discussions. He suspects 1Ls tend to be engaged, and they often > > find criminal law particularly interesting. He wonders if the results would > > be different in classes with little voluntary class participation. > > > > Earlier this week on Prawfsblawg, Howard Wasserman, an associate law > > professor at Florida International University, noted that his own classroom > > laptop ban was going better than he had hoped. > > > > "I never realized how much I missed eye contact," Wasserman wrote. "Even the > > bored and checked-out students at least look up at me. And when students > > have to look up, you can get a sense from their eyes as to whether they are > > 'getting' what you were talking about and adjust accordingly. I also never > > realized how loud keyboards are when 75 students are typing simultaneously." > > > > He noted that he'll have to wait for class evaluations at the end of the > > semester to see what his students think of the ban. > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > blindlaw mailing list > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/chatter8712%40gmail.com > > > > > -- > -Shane > Website: http://www.blind-geek.com > AIM: inhaddict > MSN: shane at blind-geek.com > Skype: chatter8712 > Twitter: blind_geek > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jbar%40barcore.com From theweisberggroup at sbcglobal.net Fri Mar 6 22:07:25 2009 From: theweisberggroup at sbcglobal.net (James Weisberg) Date: Fri, 6 Mar 2009 14:07:25 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] FW: Law Students Report Positive Reaction toNo-Laptop Policy, ABA Journal, March 5, 2009 In-Reply-To: <200903062127.n26LRIb1019451@flpi128.prodigy.net> References: <200903062127.n26LRIb1019451@flpi128.prodigy.net> Message-ID: Angie - What model phone and keyboard are you using? Sounds slick. James -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Angie Matney Sent: Friday, March 06, 2009 12:22 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] FW: Law Students Report Positive Reaction toNo-Laptop Policy, ABA Journal, March 5, 2009 Hi Noel, You're right! We can be distracted through our earphones or braille displays, and no one's the wiser. Oh, wait...that's not what you meant? (grin) In all seriousness, I have started using a cell phone with a bluetooth keyboard and bluetooth 12-cell braille display for notetaking. It is a great portable system. Angie On Fri, 6 Mar 2009 11:20:53 -0600, Nightingale, Noel wrote: >Blindlaw listers: >This article struck me as showing one edge blind law students and lawyers may have over their sighted counterparts, who apparently need to look at their screens rather than at the person who is speaking! _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/theweisberggroup%4 0sbcglobal.net From angie at mpmail.net Fri Mar 6 23:10:40 2009 From: angie at mpmail.net (Angie Matney) Date: Fri, 06 Mar 2009 18:10:40 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] FW: Law Students Report Positive Reaction toNo-Laptop Policy, ABA Journal, March 5, 2009 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi James, I use a Nokia N82 phone. I have a ThinkOutside keyboard (now marketed under the name iGo), and a BrailleConnect 12 display. I also use a bluetooth earpiece if I need to have any speech output. Whole system probably weighs under a pound. Angie On Fri, 6 Mar 2009 14:07:25 -0800, James Weisberg wrote: >Angie - >What model phone and keyboard are you using? Sounds slick. From bspiry at comcast.net Fri Mar 6 23:26:12 2009 From: bspiry at comcast.net (Bill Spiry) Date: Fri, 6 Mar 2009 15:26:12 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] FW: Law Students Report Positive Reaction to No-Laptop Policy, ABA Journal, March 5, 2009 In-Reply-To: <000601c99e95$9dcf8b30$6901a8c0@RThomas> References: <000601c99e95$9dcf8b30$6901a8c0@RThomas> Message-ID: <000d01c99eb2$f0664010$d132c030$@net> you're jumping to the conclusion that he would not accommodate a request by a blind student to use the laptop. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Russell J. Thomas, Jr Sent: Friday, March 06, 2009 11:56 AM To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: Re: [blindlaw] FW: Law Students Report Positive Reaction to No-Laptop Policy, ABA Journal, March 5, 2009 This is a step backward for any blind person who prefers to take notes on a laptop. This is stone-age thinking. Is this prof's ego so big, that he somehow feels slighted if his students are not looking at him? Respectfully, Russell J. Thomas, Jr. THOMAS & ASSOCIATES www.employersattorneys.com Orange County Office 4121 Westerly Place, Suite 101 Newport Beach, California 92660 T: (949) 752-0101 F: (949) 257-4756 M: (949) 466-7238 Beverly Hills Office 9107 Wilshire Boulevard, Suite 450 Beverly Hills, California 90210 T: (310) 461-3561 -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Nightingale, Noel Sent: Friday, March 06, 2009 9:21 AM To: 'blindlaw at nfbnet.org' Subject: [blindlaw] FW: Law Students Report Positive Reaction to No-Laptop Policy, ABA Journal, March 5, 2009 Blindlaw listers: This article struck me as showing one edge blind law students and lawyers may have over their sighted counterparts, who apparently need to look at their screens rather than at the person who is speaking! Noel Link: http://www.abajournal.com/weekly/law_students_report_positive_reaction_to_no -laptop_policy Text: Law Students Report Positive Reaction to No-Laptop Policy Posted Mar 5, 2009 By Debra Cassens Weiss A law professor who banned laptops in his first-year criminal law class surveyed his students about their reaction-and found it was generally positive. UCLA law professor Eugene Volokh had the results in a memo to his collegues (PDF) and on his blog, The Volokh Conspiracy. Seventy-one percent of the students who responded reported the policy had a strongly positive or slightly positive effect on their concentration in class. Fifty-four percent said it had a positive effect on their overall enjoyment of the course. Only 36 percent reported a positive influence on learning, though; 41 percent said the experience was neutral in regard to learning. One student pointed out that the experiment had a negative effect on trees. The student's e-mail to Volokh said those who brief cases on their computers have to print out their notes for class. And those who want their class notes neatly typed and available on their laptop have to transcribe classroom notes. While students were positive, Volokh said he noted no material differences in classroom discussions. He suspects 1Ls tend to be engaged, and they often find criminal law particularly interesting. He wonders if the results would be different in classes with little voluntary class participation. Earlier this week on Prawfsblawg, Howard Wasserman, an associate law professor at Florida International University, noted that his own classroom laptop ban was going better than he had hoped. "I never realized how much I missed eye contact," Wasserman wrote. "Even the bored and checked-out students at least look up at me. And when students have to look up, you can get a sense from their eyes as to whether they are 'getting' what you were talking about and adjust accordingly. I also never realized how loud keyboards are when 75 students are typing simultaneously." He noted that he'll have to wait for class evaluations at the end of the semester to see what his students think of the ban. _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rjtlawfirm%40yahoo .com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/bspiry%40comcast.n et From angie.matney at gmail.com Sat Mar 7 00:39:24 2009 From: angie.matney at gmail.com (Angie Matney) Date: Fri, 6 Mar 2009 19:39:24 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] FW: Law Students Report Positive Reaction to No-Laptop Policy, ABA Journal, March 5, 2009 Message-ID: Exactly. I have had at least one prof with a no laptop policy. In one case, I did explicitly discuss the situation with the prof. He was fine with me having a laptop. Good thing, too. He wanted us to bring our books to class, and mine are on my computer. Now that I rarely bring the laptop to class, I put the readings on my phone or on my book port. Angie Sent from my Nokia N82. -original message- Subject: Re: [blindlaw] FW: Law Students Report Positive Reaction to No-Laptop Policy, ABA Journal, March 5, 2009 From: "Bill Spiry" Date: 03/06/2009 7:08 PM you're jumping to the conclusion that he would not accommodate a request by a blind student to use the laptop. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Russell J. Thomas, Jr Sent: Friday, March 06, 2009 11:56 AM To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: Re: [blindlaw] FW: Law Students Report Positive Reaction to No-Laptop Policy, ABA Journal, March 5, 2009 This is a step backward for any blind person who prefers to take notes on a laptop. This is stone-age thinking. Is this prof's ego so big, that he somehow feels slighted if his students are not looking at him? Respectfully, Russell J. Thomas, Jr. THOMAS & ASSOCIATES www.employersattorneys.com Orange County Office 4121 Westerly Place, Suite 101 Newport Beach, California 92660 T: (949) 752-0101 F: (949) 257-4756 M: (949) 466-7238 Beverly Hills Office 9107 Wilshire Boulevard, Suite 450 Beverly Hills, California 90210 T: (310) 461-3561 -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Nightingale, Noel Sent: Friday, March 06, 2009 9:21 AM To: 'blindlaw at nfbnet.org' Subject: [blindlaw] FW: Law Students Report Positive Reaction to No-Laptop Policy, ABA Journal, March 5, 2009 Blindlaw listers: This article struck me as showing one edge blind law students and lawyers may have over their sighted counterparts, who apparently need to look at their screens rather than at the person who is speaking! Noel Link: http://www.abajournal.com/weekly/law_students_report_positive_reaction_to_no -laptop_policy Text: Law Students Report Positive Reaction to No-Laptop Policy Posted Mar 5, 2009 By Debra Cassens Weiss A law professor who banned laptops in his first-year criminal law class surveyed his students about their reaction-and found it was generally positive. UCLA law professor Eugene Volokh had the results in a memo to his collegues (PDF) and on his blog, The Volokh Conspiracy. Seventy-one percent of the students who responded reported the policy had a strongly positive or slightly positive effect on their concentration in class. Fifty-four percent said it had a positive effect on their overall enjoyment of the course. Only 36 percent reported a positive influence on learning, though; 41 percent said the experience was neutral in regard to learning. One student pointed out that the experiment had a negative effect on trees. The student's e-mail to Volokh said those who brief cases on their computers have to print out their notes for class. And those who want their class notes neatly typed and available on their laptop have to transcribe classroom notes. While students were positive, Volokh said he noted no material differences in classroom discussions. He suspects 1Ls tend to be engaged, and they often find criminal law particularly interesting. He wonders if the results would be different in classes with little voluntary class participation. Earlier this week on Prawfsblawg, Howard Wasserman, an associate law professor at Florida International University, noted that his own classroom laptop ban was going better than he had hoped. "I never realized how much I missed eye contact," Wasserman wrote. "Even the bored and checked-out students at least look up at me. And when students have to look up, you can get a sense from their eyes as to whether they are 'getting' what you were talking about and adjust accordingly. I also never realized how loud keyboards are when 75 students are typing simultaneously." He noted that he'll have to wait for class evaluations at the end of the semester to see what his students think of the ban. _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rjtlawfirm%40yahoo .com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/bspiry%40comcast.n et _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie.matney%40gmail.com From angie.matney at gmail.com Sat Mar 7 00:49:59 2009 From: angie.matney at gmail.com (Angie Matney) Date: Fri, 6 Mar 2009 19:49:59 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] FW: Law Students Report Positive Reaction to No-Laptop Policy, ABA Journal, March 5, 2009 Message-ID: As someone who has taught college level math courses, I could identify with what he was saying. It is hard to talk to a group for well over an hour if no one seems to be engaged. I am not implying that as a blind instructor, I couldn't engage my students (though one or two of my poorest performers did claim they did badly because of my blindness). I just mean that I can kind of sympathize with the prof, and I don't thic it's all about ego. Of course, one could argue that professors will probably have to modify their expectations in some way, but I'll leave that to other posters. Angie Sent from my Nokia N82. -original message- Subject: Re: [blindlaw] FW: Law Students Report Positive Reaction to No-Laptop Policy, ABA Journal, March 5, 2009 From: "Bill Spiry" Date: 03/06/2009 7:08 PM you're jumping to the conclusion that he would not accommodate a request by a blind student to use the laptop. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Russell J. Thomas, Jr Sent: Friday, March 06, 2009 11:56 AM To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: Re: [blindlaw] FW: Law Students Report Positive Reaction to No-Laptop Policy, ABA Journal, March 5, 2009 This is a step backward for any blind person who prefers to take notes on a laptop. This is stone-age thinking. Is this prof's ego so big, that he somehow feels slighted if his students are not looking at him? Respectfully, Russell J. Thomas, Jr. THOMAS & ASSOCIATES www.employersattorneys.com Orange County Office 4121 Westerly Place, Suite 101 Newport Beach, California 92660 T: (949) 752-0101 F: (949) 257-4756 M: (949) 466-7238 Beverly Hills Office 9107 Wilshire Boulevard, Suite 450 Beverly Hills, California 90210 T: (310) 461-3561 -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Nightingale, Noel Sent: Friday, March 06, 2009 9:21 AM To: 'blindlaw at nfbnet.org' Subject: [blindlaw] FW: Law Students Report Positive Reaction to No-Laptop Policy, ABA Journal, March 5, 2009 Blindlaw listers: This article struck me as showing one edge blind law students and lawyers may have over their sighted counterparts, who apparently need to look at their screens rather than at the person who is speaking! Noel Link: http://www.abajournal.com/weekly/law_students_report_positive_reaction_to_no -laptop_policy Text: Law Students Report Positive Reaction to No-Laptop Policy Posted Mar 5, 2009 By Debra Cassens Weiss A law professor who banned laptops in his first-year criminal law class surveyed his students about their reaction-and found it was generally positive. UCLA law professor Eugene Volokh had the results in a memo to his collegues (PDF) and on his blog, The Volokh Conspiracy. Seventy-one percent of the students who responded reported the policy had a strongly positive or slightly positive effect on their concentration in class. Fifty-four percent said it had a positive effect on their overall enjoyment of the course. Only 36 percent reported a positive influence on learning, though; 41 percent said the experience was neutral in regard to learning. One student pointed out that the experiment had a negative effect on trees. The student's e-mail to Volokh said those who brief cases on their computers have to print out their notes for class. And those who want their class notes neatly typed and available on their laptop have to transcribe classroom notes. While students were positive, Volokh said he noted no material differences in classroom discussions. He suspects 1Ls tend to be engaged, and they often find criminal law particularly interesting. He wonders if the results would be different in classes with little voluntary class participation. Earlier this week on Prawfsblawg, Howard Wasserman, an associate law professor at Florida International University, noted that his own classroom laptop ban was going better than he had hoped. "I never realized how much I missed eye contact," Wasserman wrote. "Even the bored and checked-out students at least look up at me. And when students have to look up, you can get a sense from their eyes as to whether they are 'getting' what you were talking about and adjust accordingly. I also never realized how loud keyboards are when 75 students are typing simultaneously." He noted that he'll have to wait for class evaluations at the end of the semester to see what his students think of the ban. _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rjtlawfirm%40yahoo .com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/bspiry%40comcast.n et _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie.matney%40gmail.com From lmilholland at hotmail.com Sat Mar 7 01:00:06 2009 From: lmilholland at hotmail.com (Locke Milholland) Date: Fri, 6 Mar 2009 20:00:06 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] FW: Law Students Report Positive Reaction to No-Laptop Policy, ABA Journal, March 5, 2009 References: Message-ID: I went to a law school with roughly 120 students per class. I had a few professors with a no laptop policy. With the professors, my typical accommodation request went something like, "Professor, do you mind if I use my laptop?" The professor would reply, "Of course not." There are two policies, the public one is students interact better when they aren't taking dictation style notes. The second one is, students perform better when they aren't playing solitaire during class. We did have one student make the unfortunate mistake of emailing the professor, as if she weren't in class at the moment, while the professor was giving a powerpoint presentation, and had his email program running in the background. He read it for the class. Locke From roddj12 at hotmail.com Sat Mar 7 01:31:02 2009 From: roddj12 at hotmail.com (Rod Alcidonis) Date: Fri, 6 Mar 2009 20:31:02 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] FW: Law Students Report Positive Reactionto No-Laptop Policy, ABA Journal, March 5, 2009 References: <000601c99e95$9dcf8b30$6901a8c0@RThomas> <000d01c99eb2$f0664010$d132c030$@net> Message-ID: Thomas, in today's time, most law professors would accommodate a blind student to use his/her laptop. Some professors might even forego the policy if it will result in a stigma to that student in class -- being the only one using a laptop. I find law professors to be much more accommodating and understanding than undergraduate professors. Perhaps it's because they know the law and its consequences. Rod Alcidonis Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009. Roger Williams University School of Law 10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 Bristol, RI 02809 Cell: 718-704-4651 Home: 401-824-8685 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Spiry" To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Sent: Friday, March 06, 2009 6:26 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] FW: Law Students Report Positive Reactionto No-Laptop Policy, ABA Journal, March 5, 2009 > you're jumping to the conclusion that he would not accommodate a request > by > a blind student to use the laptop. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of Russell J. Thomas, Jr > Sent: Friday, March 06, 2009 11:56 AM > To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] FW: Law Students Report Positive Reaction to > No-Laptop Policy, ABA Journal, March 5, 2009 > > This is a step backward for any blind person who prefers to take notes on > a > laptop. This is stone-age thinking. Is this prof's ego so big, that he > somehow feels slighted if his students are not looking at him? > > > > Respectfully, > > > > Russell J. Thomas, Jr. > > THOMAS & ASSOCIATES > > www.employersattorneys.com > > > > Orange County Office > > 4121 Westerly Place, Suite 101 > > Newport Beach, California 92660 > > T: (949) 752-0101 > > F: (949) 257-4756 > > M: (949) 466-7238 > > > > Beverly Hills Office > > 9107 Wilshire Boulevard, Suite 450 > > Beverly Hills, California 90210 > > T: (310) 461-3561 > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of Nightingale, Noel > Sent: Friday, March 06, 2009 9:21 AM > To: 'blindlaw at nfbnet.org' > Subject: [blindlaw] FW: Law Students Report Positive Reaction to No-Laptop > Policy, ABA Journal, March 5, 2009 > > Blindlaw listers: > > This article struck me as showing one edge blind law students and lawyers > may have over their sighted counterparts, who apparently need to look at > their screens rather than at the person who is speaking! > > Noel > > > > Link: > http://www.abajournal.com/weekly/law_students_report_positive_reaction_to_no > -laptop_policy > > Text: > Law Students Report Positive Reaction to No-Laptop Policy > Posted Mar 5, 2009 > By Debra Cassens Weiss > > A law professor who banned laptops in his first-year criminal law class > surveyed his students about their reaction-and found it was generally > positive. > > UCLA law professor Eugene Volokh had the results in a memo to his > collegues > (PDF) and on his blog, The Volokh Conspiracy. > > Seventy-one percent of the students who responded reported the policy had > a > strongly positive or slightly positive effect on their concentration in > class. Fifty-four percent said it had a positive effect on their overall > enjoyment of the course. > > Only 36 percent reported a positive influence on learning, though; 41 > percent said the experience was neutral in regard to learning. > > One student pointed out that the experiment had a negative effect on > trees. > The student's e-mail to Volokh said those who brief cases on their > computers > have to print out their notes for class. And those who want their class > notes neatly typed and available on their laptop have to transcribe > classroom notes. > > While students were positive, Volokh said he noted no material differences > in classroom discussions. He suspects 1Ls tend to be engaged, and they > often > find criminal law particularly interesting. He wonders if the results > would > be different in classes with little voluntary class participation. > > Earlier this week on Prawfsblawg, Howard Wasserman, an associate law > professor at Florida International University, noted that his own > classroom > laptop ban was going better than he had hoped. > > "I never realized how much I missed eye contact," Wasserman wrote. "Even > the > bored and checked-out students at least look up at me. And when students > have to look up, you can get a sense from their eyes as to whether they > are > 'getting' what you were talking about and adjust accordingly. I also never > realized how loud keyboards are when 75 students are typing > simultaneously." > > He noted that he'll have to wait for class evaluations at the end of the > semester to see what his students think of the ban. > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rjtlawfirm%40yahoo > .com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/bspiry%40comcast.n > et > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail.com > From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Sat Mar 7 07:21:55 2009 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Fri, 6 Mar 2009 23:21:55 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] FW: Law Students Report Positive Reaction to No-Laptop Policy, ABA Journal, March 5, 2009 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3ED84906484A416ABCB76A8C0036B860@spike> and for those of us blind or not who remember taking notes in courses before there were lap tops this says a lot. I think this could also carry in to professional practice as well where people have to actually remember what they learn because referring to notes or lap tops isn't always feasible. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nightingale, Noel" To: Sent: Friday, March 06, 2009 9:20 AM Subject: [blindlaw] FW: Law Students Report Positive Reaction to No-Laptop Policy, ABA Journal, March 5, 2009 > Blindlaw listers: > > This article struck me as showing one edge blind law students and lawyers > may have over their sighted counterparts, who apparently need to look at > their screens rather than at the person who is speaking! > > Noel > > > > Link: > http://www.abajournal.com/weekly/law_students_report_positive_reaction_to_no-laptop_policy > > Text: > Law Students Report Positive Reaction to No-Laptop Policy > Posted Mar 5, 2009 > By Debra Cassens Weiss > > A law professor who banned laptops in his first-year criminal law class > surveyed his students about their reaction-and found it was generally > positive. > > UCLA law professor Eugene Volokh had the results in a memo to his > collegues (PDF) and on his blog, The Volokh Conspiracy. > > Seventy-one percent of the students who responded reported the policy had > a strongly positive or slightly positive effect on their concentration in > class. Fifty-four percent said it had a positive effect on their overall > enjoyment of the course. > > Only 36 percent reported a positive influence on learning, though; 41 > percent said the experience was neutral in regard to learning. > > One student pointed out that the experiment had a negative effect on > trees. The student's e-mail to Volokh said those who brief cases on their > computers have to print out their notes for class. And those who want > their class notes neatly typed and available on their laptop have to > transcribe classroom notes. > > While students were positive, Volokh said he noted no material differences > in classroom discussions. He suspects 1Ls tend to be engaged, and they > often find criminal law particularly interesting. He wonders if the > results would be different in classes with little voluntary class > participation. > > Earlier this week on Prawfsblawg, Howard Wasserman, an associate law > professor at Florida International University, noted that his own > classroom laptop ban was going better than he had hoped. > > "I never realized how much I missed eye contact," Wasserman wrote. "Even > the bored and checked-out students at least look up at me. And when > students have to look up, you can get a sense from their eyes as to > whether they are 'getting' what you were talking about and adjust > accordingly. I also never realized how loud keyboards are when 75 students > are typing simultaneously." > > He noted that he'll have to wait for class evaluations at the end of the > semester to see what his students think of the ban. > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net From carter.tjoseph at gmail.com Sat Mar 7 09:06:12 2009 From: carter.tjoseph at gmail.com (T. Joseph Carter) Date: Sat, 7 Mar 2009 01:06:12 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] FW: Law Students Report Positive Reaction toNo-Laptop Policy, ABA Journal, March 5, 2009 In-Reply-To: <49b1ba92.6105be0a.70ab.ffffc25eSMTPIN_ADDED@mx.google.com> References: <49b1ba92.6105be0a.70ab.ffffc25eSMTPIN_ADDED@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <20090307090612.GE45221@yumi.bluecherry.net> The problem with the system is the number of doodads you have to carry to make it work. On the subject of electronic device bans in classrooms, I think the potential for stigma is too high, even when the entire class is released from the ban to attempt to avoid such a stigma. My experience with this is a situation where any stigma created by such a ban--and by my accommodation negating it--was intentional on the part of the professors in question. (That's a story in and of itself, but I have multiple independent means of showing that it was done in the hopes that it would be harmful.) Nothing can truly prevent willful discrimination, but setting the stage for some students being treated differently ultimately because of disability is likely to subject the person with the disability to negative consequences. If those are unintended, the best way to avoid them is to prevent the possibility. Joseph On Fri, Mar 06, 2009 at 06:10:40PM -0500, Angie Matney wrote: >Hi James, > >I use a Nokia N82 phone. I have a ThinkOutside keyboard (now marketed under the name iGo), and a BrailleConnect 12 display. I also use a bluetooth earpiece if I need to have any speech output. Whole system probably weighs under a pound. > >Angie From angie at mpmail.net Sat Mar 7 09:37:35 2009 From: angie at mpmail.net (Angie Matney) Date: Sat, 07 Mar 2009 04:37:35 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] FW: Law Students Report Positive Reaction toNo-Laptop Policy, ABA Journal, March 5, 2009 In-Reply-To: <20090307090612.GE45221@yumi.bluecherry.net> Message-ID: Hi Joseph, >The problem with the system is the number of doodads you have to >carry to make it work. To eachhis/her own, I suppose. This system doesn't involve much mre tan my laptop with earphone and braille display. All of the devices talk to each other without difficulty, The phone boots up quickly, and I can go for hours on end without needing to find an outlet. >On the subject of electronic device bans in classrooms, I think the >potential for stigma is too high, even when the entire class is >released from the ban to attempt to avoid such a stigma. Sounds like you had some unfortunat experiences in that regard. My school is surprisingly less competitive than I would have thought, so this has never been an issue. But very few instructors here would ban laptops anyway. Angie From dgoraya at ucla.edu Sat Mar 7 17:09:32 2009 From: dgoraya at ucla.edu (deepa goraya) Date: Sat, 7 Mar 2009 09:09:32 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] prelaw student seeking employment for a year Message-ID: Hello All, This is Deepa Goraya from California. I am writing to see if anyone knows of a law firm that is looking to employ any blind prelaw students temporarily to give them experience of what it is like working in the legal field. Although I have had two legal unpaid internships while in college, I would like to get an even broader range of experience as a paralegal or something similar to that, as well as some financial compensation. I applied to law schools in the fall but I had a rather low LSAT score so it is looking like I will have to retake the LSAT and reapply. For now, I am looking for a job as a paralegal or something similar at a law firm either in D.C. or back in California. I graduated from UCLA in June with a B.A. in English, and double minor in African American Studies and Classical Civilization. I am currently interning on Capitol Hill for Senator Christopher Dodd, but that will be over in May. I will need employment for the 2009/2010 year. If anyone knows of firms I can apply to, please let me know. I can also provide my resume off list. Please email me at dgoraya at ucla.edu or call me on my cell: (909) 964-3699 with any information. Thank you in advance! Sincerely, Deepa Goraya From bspiry at comcast.net Sat Mar 7 18:24:07 2009 From: bspiry at comcast.net (Bill Spiry) Date: Sat, 7 Mar 2009 10:24:07 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] FW: Law Students Report Positive Reaction toNo-Laptop Policy, ABA Journal, March 5, 2009 References: <20090307090612.GE45221@yumi.bluecherry.net> Message-ID: <000001c99f51$e784d7a0$b68e86e0$@net> Angie, What blue tooth ear phone do you like? -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Angie Matney Sent: Saturday, March 07, 2009 1:38 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] FW: Law Students Report Positive Reaction toNo-Laptop Policy, ABA Journal, March 5, 2009 Hi Joseph, >The problem with the system is the number of doodads you have to >carry to make it work. To eachhis/her own, I suppose. This system doesn't involve much mre tan my laptop with earphone and braille display. All of the devices talk to each other without difficulty, The phone boots up quickly, and I can go for hours on end without needing to find an outlet. >On the subject of electronic device bans in classrooms, I think the >potential for stigma is too high, even when the entire class is >released from the ban to attempt to avoid such a stigma. Sounds like you had some unfortunat experiences in that regard. My school is surprisingly less competitive than I would have thought, so this has never been an issue. But very few instructors here would ban laptops anyway. Angie _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/bspiry%40comcast.n et From bspiry at comcast.net Sat Mar 7 21:12:04 2009 From: bspiry at comcast.net (Bill Spiry) Date: Sat, 7 Mar 2009 13:12:04 -0800 Subject: [blindlaw] career transition to Law... Message-ID: <000101c99f69$5dbade80$19309b80$@net> Hi folks. . I am considering making a pretty big career change, returning to school for my JD. I'd appreciate talking to someone, a successful blind attorney who might have come to the law with similar circumstances to those I'm wrestling through at this time. The short of it is as follows: . I'm 48 years old. I've been a senior Human Resources manager for the last 20 years, most recently Director of Human Resources for a municipality for the last 9 of those years. As you might expect my work involves complex employment and labor issues routinely, I've negotiated more collective bargaining agreements and dispute resolutions than I care to remember during my career, and have been very engaged with the laws and regulations of the profession in employment, labor, and the ADA, as well as risk and other disciplines. Its often my experience that I have more extensive knowledge of the laws involved with my work than the attorney's I consult with. . I am an HR generalist, but my sweet spot has always been dealing with the most difficult and complicated disputes and employee performance and discipline issues. My strongest competencies involve providing counsel in complex and sensitive employment issues, guiding managers and employees back to the core facts, fairness considerations, and desired outcomes needed to bring resolution. . I'm burned out with the internal politics of HR management in government employment. As an executive, I'm tired of battling to justify the strategic importance of good HR management in the face of internal popularity politics, regardless of how effective my team has been bringing best practice to the table and helping people. I'm tired of being the guy who has to take the body blows for internally unpopular decisions directed by City Managers and elected officials. After 20 years of this, I expect I can find another executive position where things will be fresher again, but fundamentally I believe this is one of the crosses I'll continue to bear as an HR professional regardless of the organization. It's the nature of the beast. I have liked the work, but dislike the BS. I have decided to leave this position either to go to law school or to seek a position elsewhere with a fresher start. I guess fundamentally, I'm looking for more independence. I suspect my core competencies would serve me well helping people as an attorney, but the difference would be having the credentials to be heard and taken seriously. . The law has always been of interest to me, I completed 3 law school courses in labor and arbitration many moons ago during my Grad studies at the U of MN and did very well, and have actively sought continuing education in the legal aspects of my profession. I considered entering law back then, but I was still transitioning into my blindness and frankly intimidated by the accessibility challenges I faced. So, I followed an alternative path. . I've lost my vision to RP, mostly as an adult. I was not introduced to skills for blindness until around 19, and really didn't start to take the need for those skills seriously until my vision continued to degenerate and I entered grad school a few years later. I no longer have any functional vision. I've had a couple of rounds of Braille training over the years, but my skills are limited and my use of it is limited to administrative functions such as labeling and brief notations. I am skilled in the use of screen readers user (JAWS and SA), and perform the vast majority of my information and document based work using electronic materials. . I have a family, wife and three teenage kids. My wife is supportive of me in this transition. We think we understand that there will be significant sacrifices we'll have to make over the next few years if I do enter law school. I suspect however that the reality of how much work it will be and how tight things will become is still a bit under the radar for us. That's why I want to be pretty certain that it's the right decision. If you feel you could offer me some wisdom from your own experience, and would be willing to talk with me, I'd appreciate hearing from you. Please drop me a response offline to my email address below. From there we can arrange to talk if appropriate. Thanks guys. Bill Bill Spiry bspiry at comcast.net From AZNOR99 at aol.com Sun Mar 8 18:47:54 2009 From: AZNOR99 at aol.com (AZNOR99 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2009 14:47:54 EDT Subject: [blindlaw] Fwd: A CELEBRATION OF LIFE!!!!!!!IN LOVING MEMEMORY Message-ID: Please see a message from a friend from Michigan below. Thos of us who knew Michael will miss him a great deal. This is a very sad time for our Federation Family. Ronza ____________________________________ From: youthslammi at yahoo.com To: nfbmi-talk at nfbnet.org, qmsingleton at comcast.net CC: alewis at nfbga.org, aznor99 at aol.com, bossclaw at aol.com, akostin at ci.lansing.mi.us, malston at ci.lansing.mi.us, mossc at michigan.gov, kdavisnfbf at cfl.rr.com, djgfire3life at gmail.com, ggwilcox at comcast.net, gscott at nfbga.org, camptgirl at att.net, jacalynpaulding at gmail.com, jennifer.dunnam at earthlink.net, jj at bestmidi.com, JWilson at nfb.org, ghkitchen at comcast.net, MThorpe at nfb.org, MRio at nfb.org, kitties_kimmy at yahoo.com, chelseap08 at gmail.com, tpaulding at drccil.org, robinsond5 at michigan.gov, nfrbnj at yahoo.com, lilblue615 at yahoo.com, selena.j.sundling at irs.gov, msoulsby at suddenlink.net, tjpaulding at gmail.com, george.wurtzel at comcast.net, peter_zaremba at yahoo.com Sent: 3/8/2009 2:29:17 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time Subj: A CELEBRATION OF LIFE!!!!!!!IN LOVING MEMEMORY>>> To all of my federation friends, i write to you with a terribly saddened heart and a whole flood of emotions inside. With deepest sadness i must report to you that the NFB of MI has lost a close friend. Our fellow federationis, president of the Tennessee affiliate and great friend, Michael Seay has gone home to be with the Lord,.. on Friday, March 5.2009 after a sudden heart attack. . Please join me in celebrating the life of a man that so many of us held so dear. He was our federation brother and to many in the Michigan affiliate he was such a good friend. In a gesture of love to the family, i am compiling a book of memories and pictures to present to his family when i travel to Memphis this weekend for his service. SO, i ask if you have any memories of Mike as a friend , of federation brother that you'd like to share with his family, please email me the stories and pictures. I am sure that the family will find comfort in our memories. i must admit that this is partially a selfish endeavor. Mike meant the world to me and by hearing memories of all his friends it makes me remember him and feel his awesome presence. If i were to write something it would be about the way he laughed that just consumed me and made me laugh even if i didn't think the comment or joke was funny. I would write about how he made me feel special and how at one time and maybe even still i was his princess. Or, the time i blew up a pan of brownies while he was in Michigan visiting and he tried to pretend that he wasn't disappointed but really he was looking foward to my excellent peanut butter brownies. I have so many great memories and i am sure you do as well. Knowing Mike as i did, i am sure that he's in heaven happy, drinking weet tea( or....) and eating ribs, chicken or tacos. I am sure that he is singing in the choir with angels and sharing his amazing laugh with them. Again, please send your stories to me so that i may share our memories of our federation brother with his family. Thank you, Melinda MELINDA LATHAM Youth Outreach Coordinator, NFB of MI 517.803.3800 **************Check all of your email inboxes from anywhere on the web. Try the new Email Toolbar now! (http://toolbar.aol.com/mail/download.html?ncid=txtlnkusdown00000027) From mikefry79 at gmail.com Sun Mar 8 23:25:26 2009 From: mikefry79 at gmail.com (Michael Fry) Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2009 16:25:26 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] career transition to Law... In-Reply-To: <000101c99f69$5dbade80$19309b80$@net> References: <000101c99f69$5dbade80$19309b80$@net> Message-ID: <8c58e54a0903081625y2d7597bag97653240adbe2e41@mail.gmail.com> Hi Bill, I highly recommend you do not quit your job to go to law school. I sincerely think that it'd be a bad idea. It sounds like you've got a very good thing going on especially in these though economic times. If I were you, I wouldn't start a new career at this point in my life. Trust me, there a lot people on this list that would prefer to have your job instead of being a lawyer. It's just my opinion but if I didn't tell you, I'd feel negligent, I think your perception of being a lawyer is rosier than the reality and you currently have a really good job. Mike On Sat, Mar 7, 2009 at 2:12 PM, Bill Spiry wrote: > Hi folks. > > . I am considering making a pretty big career change, returning to school > for my JD. I'd appreciate talking to someone, a successful blind attorney > who might have come to the law with similar circumstances to those I'm > wrestling through at this time. > > The short of it is as follows: > > . I'm 48 years old. I've been a senior Human Resources manager for > the last 20 years, most recently Director of Human Resources for a > municipality for the last 9 of those years. As you might expect my work > involves complex employment and labor issues routinely, I've negotiated > more > collective bargaining agreements and dispute resolutions than I care to > remember during my career, and have been very engaged with the laws and > regulations of the profession in employment, labor, and the ADA, as well as > risk and other disciplines. Its often my experience that I have more > extensive knowledge of the laws involved with my work than the attorney's I > consult with. > > . I am an HR generalist, but my sweet spot has always been dealing > with the most difficult and complicated disputes and employee performance > and discipline issues. My strongest competencies involve providing counsel > in complex and sensitive employment issues, guiding managers and employees > back to the core facts, fairness considerations, and desired outcomes > needed > to bring resolution. > > . I'm burned out with the internal politics of HR management in > government employment. As an executive, I'm tired of battling to justify > the > strategic importance of good HR management in the face of internal > popularity politics, regardless of how effective my team has been bringing > best practice to the table and helping people. I'm tired of being the guy > who has to take the body blows for internally unpopular decisions directed > by City Managers and elected officials. After 20 years of this, I expect I > can find another executive position where things will be fresher again, but > fundamentally I believe this is one of the crosses I'll continue to bear as > an HR professional regardless of the organization. It's the nature of the > beast. I have liked the work, but dislike the BS. I have decided to leave > this position either to go to law school or to seek a position elsewhere > with a fresher start. I guess fundamentally, I'm looking for more > independence. I suspect my core competencies would serve me well helping > people as an attorney, but the difference would be having the credentials > to > be heard and taken seriously. > > . The law has always been of interest to me, I completed 3 law > school courses in labor and arbitration many moons ago during my Grad > studies at the U of MN and did very well, and have actively sought > continuing education in the legal aspects of my profession. I considered > entering law back then, but I was still transitioning into my blindness and > frankly intimidated by the accessibility challenges I faced. So, I followed > an alternative path. > > . I've lost my vision to RP, mostly as an adult. I was not > introduced to skills for blindness until around 19, and really didn't start > to take the need for those skills seriously until my vision continued to > degenerate and I entered grad school a few years later. I no longer have > any functional vision. I've had a couple of rounds of Braille training > over > the years, but my skills are limited and my use of it is limited to > administrative functions such as labeling and brief notations. I am skilled > in the use of screen readers user (JAWS and SA), and perform the vast > majority of my information and document based work using electronic > materials. > > . I have a family, wife and three teenage kids. My wife is > supportive of me in this transition. We think we understand that there will > be significant sacrifices we'll have to make over the next few years if I > do > enter law school. I suspect however that the reality of how much work it > will be and how tight things will become is still a bit under the radar for > us. That's why I want to be pretty certain that it's the right decision. > > > > If you feel you could offer me some wisdom from your own experience, and > would be willing to talk with me, I'd appreciate hearing from you. Please > drop me a response offline to my email address below. From there we can > arrange to talk if appropriate. > > > > Thanks guys. > > Bill > > > > Bill Spiry > > bspiry at comcast.net > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mikefry79%40gmail.com > From stevep.deeley at insightbb.com Sun Mar 8 23:37:49 2009 From: stevep.deeley at insightbb.com (Steve P. Deeley) Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2009 19:37:49 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] career transition to Law... In-Reply-To: <8c58e54a0903081625y2d7597bag97653240adbe2e41@mail.gmail.com> References: <000101c99f69$5dbade80$19309b80$@net> <8c58e54a0903081625y2d7597bag97653240adbe2e41@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Why not attempt to attend law school at night and retain your job for the first year? Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Fry" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Sunday, March 08, 2009 7:25 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] career transition to Law... > Hi Bill, > > I highly recommend you do not quit your job to go to law school. I > sincerely think that it'd be a bad idea. It sounds like you've got a very > good thing going on especially in these though economic times. If I were > you, I wouldn't start a new career at this point in my life. Trust me, > there a lot people on this list that would prefer to have your job instead > of being a lawyer. > > It's just my opinion but if I didn't tell you, I'd feel negligent, I think > your perception of being a lawyer is rosier than the reality and you > currently have a really good job. > > Mike > > On Sat, Mar 7, 2009 at 2:12 PM, Bill Spiry wrote: > >> Hi folks. >> >> . I am considering making a pretty big career change, returning to school >> for my JD. I'd appreciate talking to someone, a successful blind attorney >> who might have come to the law with similar circumstances to those I'm >> wrestling through at this time. >> >> The short of it is as follows: >> >> . I'm 48 years old. I've been a senior Human Resources manager >> for >> the last 20 years, most recently Director of Human Resources for a >> municipality for the last 9 of those years. As you might expect my work >> involves complex employment and labor issues routinely, I've negotiated >> more >> collective bargaining agreements and dispute resolutions than I care to >> remember during my career, and have been very engaged with the laws and >> regulations of the profession in employment, labor, and the ADA, as well >> as >> risk and other disciplines. Its often my experience that I have more >> extensive knowledge of the laws involved with my work than the attorney's >> I >> consult with. >> >> . I am an HR generalist, but my sweet spot has always been >> dealing >> with the most difficult and complicated disputes and employee performance >> and discipline issues. My strongest competencies involve providing >> counsel >> in complex and sensitive employment issues, guiding managers and >> employees >> back to the core facts, fairness considerations, and desired outcomes >> needed >> to bring resolution. >> >> . I'm burned out with the internal politics of HR management in >> government employment. As an executive, I'm tired of battling to justify >> the >> strategic importance of good HR management in the face of internal >> popularity politics, regardless of how effective my team has been >> bringing >> best practice to the table and helping people. I'm tired of being the >> guy >> who has to take the body blows for internally unpopular decisions >> directed >> by City Managers and elected officials. After 20 years of this, I expect >> I >> can find another executive position where things will be fresher again, >> but >> fundamentally I believe this is one of the crosses I'll continue to bear >> as >> an HR professional regardless of the organization. It's the nature of the >> beast. I have liked the work, but dislike the BS. I have decided to leave >> this position either to go to law school or to seek a position elsewhere >> with a fresher start. I guess fundamentally, I'm looking for more >> independence. I suspect my core competencies would serve me well helping >> people as an attorney, but the difference would be having the credentials >> to >> be heard and taken seriously. >> >> . The law has always been of interest to me, I completed 3 law >> school courses in labor and arbitration many moons ago during my Grad >> studies at the U of MN and did very well, and have actively sought >> continuing education in the legal aspects of my profession. I considered >> entering law back then, but I was still transitioning into my blindness >> and >> frankly intimidated by the accessibility challenges I faced. So, I >> followed >> an alternative path. >> >> . I've lost my vision to RP, mostly as an adult. I was not >> introduced to skills for blindness until around 19, and really didn't >> start >> to take the need for those skills seriously until my vision continued to >> degenerate and I entered grad school a few years later. I no longer have >> any functional vision. I've had a couple of rounds of Braille training >> over >> the years, but my skills are limited and my use of it is limited to >> administrative functions such as labeling and brief notations. I am >> skilled >> in the use of screen readers user (JAWS and SA), and perform the vast >> majority of my information and document based work using electronic >> materials. >> >> . I have a family, wife and three teenage kids. My wife is >> supportive of me in this transition. We think we understand that there >> will >> be significant sacrifices we'll have to make over the next few years if I >> do >> enter law school. I suspect however that the reality of how much work it >> will be and how tight things will become is still a bit under the radar >> for >> us. That's why I want to be pretty certain that it's the right decision. >> >> >> >> If you feel you could offer me some wisdom from your own experience, and >> would be willing to talk with me, I'd appreciate hearing from you. >> Please >> drop me a response offline to my email address below. From there we can >> arrange to talk if appropriate. >> >> >> >> Thanks guys. >> >> Bill >> >> >> >> Bill Spiry >> >> bspiry at comcast.net >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mikefry79%40gmail.com >> > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.9/1989 - Release Date: 03/07/09 18:43:00 From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Mon Mar 9 00:53:53 2009 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2009 17:53:53 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] prelaw student seeking employment for a year In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <48B8793385A14D55AC8ED0C4D762AB89@spike> In California a law firm cannot employ you as a "Paralegal" unless you have attained a paralegal certificate in Paralegal Studies. refer to Business and Professions Code #S 6450 et seq. Some law firms will hire clerical positions or legal secretaries but this will not give much real exposure. Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal 1237 P Street Fresno ca 93721 559-266-9237 ----- Original Message ----- From: "deepa goraya" To: "blindlaw" Sent: Saturday, March 07, 2009 10:09 AM Subject: [blindlaw] prelaw student seeking employment for a year > Hello All, > > This is Deepa Goraya from California. I am writing to see if anyone > knows of a law firm that is looking to employ any blind prelaw students > temporarily to give them experience of what it is like working in the > legal field. Although I have had two legal unpaid internships while in > college, I would like to get an even broader range of experience as a > paralegal or something similar to that, as well as some financial > compensation. I applied to law schools in the fall but I had a rather low > LSAT score so it is looking like I will have to retake the LSAT and > reapply. For now, I am looking for a job as a paralegal or something > similar at a law firm either in D.C. or back in California. I graduated > from UCLA in June with a B.A. in English, and double minor in African > American Studies and Classical Civilization. I am currently interning on > Capitol Hill for Senator Christopher Dodd, but that will be over in May. I > will need employment for the 2009/2010 year. If anyone knows of firms I > can apply to, please let me know. I can also provide my resume off list. > Please email me at dgoraya at ucla.edu or call me on my cell: (909) 964-3699 > with any information. Thank you in advance! > > Sincerely, > > Deepa Goraya > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net From b75205 at gmail.com Mon Mar 9 03:50:53 2009 From: b75205 at gmail.com (James Pepper) Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2009 22:50:53 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] career transition to Law... In-Reply-To: References: <000101c99f69$5dbade80$19309b80$@net> <8c58e54a0903081625y2d7597bag97653240adbe2e41@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Mike is right, do not quit your job particularly a government job at this time, things are really bad out there right now. James From angie at mpmail.net Mon Mar 9 12:06:57 2009 From: angie at mpmail.net (Angie Matney) Date: Mon, 09 Mar 2009 08:06:57 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] career transition to Law... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: According to an ABA article, there have been something like 5000 layoffs (including attorneys and staff) since the beginning of the year. Some firms are delaying 3l start dates, and some are asking them to work in lower-paid positions for the first year of their employment. Angie On Sun, 8 Mar 2009 22:50:53 -0500, James Pepper wrote: >Mike is right, do not quit your job particularly a government job at this >time, things are really bad out there right now. >James From roddj12 at hotmail.com Mon Mar 9 13:16:47 2009 From: roddj12 at hotmail.com (Rod Alcidonis) Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 09:16:47 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] career transition to Law... References: Message-ID: Anyone with a job right now is a lucky person and, anyone with a law job right now is a fortunate person in my view. This is a terrible market out there to gamble with one's prosperity. Don't do it! I had a guy in my class, he started law school at 53; he will be graduating at 56 this May. He left a good financial job to do law school and he is now looking at the same market that I am looking at, a young man under 30. Sad. Rod Alcidonis Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009. Roger Williams University School of Law 10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 Bristol, RI 02809 Cell: 718-704-4651 Home: 401-824-8685 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Angie Matney" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 8:06 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] career transition to Law... > According to an ABA article, there have been something like 5000 layoffs > (including attorneys and staff) since the beginning of the year. Some > firms are delaying 3l start dates, and some are asking them to work in > lower-paid positions for the first year > of their employment. > > Angie > > On Sun, 8 Mar 2009 22:50:53 -0500, James Pepper wrote: > >>Mike is right, do not quit your job particularly a government job at this >>time, things are really bad out there right now. > >>James > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail.com > From m_b_gilmore at yahoo.com Mon Mar 9 16:17:16 2009 From: m_b_gilmore at yahoo.com (Mike Gilmore) Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 09:17:16 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [blindlaw] advice Message-ID: <243605.65358.qm@web90306.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi everybody.   I'm writing this post because I am seeking some advice.  I am Virginia barred (and as of two weeks ago, D.C. pending because I sat for the exam.)   Until bar results come out in May, I'm looking for some legal work. The advice that I'm seeking is where I should look. Would a law firm or other legal entity desire me or someone who's a 3L? Obviously, Northern Virginia and D.C. is a big place with a lot of opportunity; I just don't know where to look.   If anyone out there has any ideas, please let me know.   Thanks.   Mike From m_b_gilmore at yahoo.com Mon Mar 9 16:32:07 2009 From: m_b_gilmore at yahoo.com (Mike Gilmore) Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 09:32:07 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [blindlaw] independent contractor? Message-ID: <895554.71292.qm@web90307.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I am a member of a listserv for contract attorneys.  Most of the e-mails from that listserv concern document review; however, I read one the other day about licensed attorneys working as independent contractors. (Examples of this would be taking a deposition for another attorney or doing legal research for another attorney or handling a court case for an attorney who needs the help.)   Anyway, I was wondering if any of you out there in D.C. or Northern Virginia have done independent contractor work.  That option appeals to me. (Taking depositions appeals to me but I don't know how familiar one would need to be with the case or if one just asks the questions the attorney supplies to him.)   Thanks in advance for your help.   Mike   From timandvickie at hotmail.com Mon Mar 9 18:00:13 2009 From: timandvickie at hotmail.com (Tim Shaw) Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 18:00:13 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] career transition to Law... In-Reply-To: References: <000101c99f69$5dbade80$19309b80$@net> <8c58e54a0903081625y2d7597bag97653240adbe2e41@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: yes if i had a job id cliong to it like there was no tommorrow, workign my ass off. I have been out of work for almsot two years because I cannot find work. > Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2009 22:50:53 -0500 > From: b75205 at gmail.com > To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] career transition to Law... > > Mike is right, do not quit your job particularly a government job at this > time, things are really bad out there right now. > > James > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/timandvickie%40hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ Express your personality in color! Preview and select themes for Hotmail®. http://www.windowslive-hotmail.com/LearnMore/personalize.aspx?ocid=TXT_MSGTX_WL_HM_express_032009#colortheme From timandvickie at hotmail.com Mon Mar 9 19:45:28 2009 From: timandvickie at hotmail.com (Tim Shaw) Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 19:45:28 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] independent contractor? In-Reply-To: <895554.71292.qm@web90307.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <895554.71292.qm@web90307.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: hmmm potential business idea a "temp agency" for lawyers, assigning independent ontractorsfor such tasks.... > Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 09:32:07 -0700 > From: m_b_gilmore at yahoo.com > To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org > Subject: [blindlaw] independent contractor? > > I am a member of a listserv for contract attorneys. Most of the e-mails from that listserv concern document review; however, I read one the other day about licensed attorneys working as independent contractors. (Examples of this would be taking a deposition for another attorney or doing legal research for another attorney or handling a court case for an attorney who needs the help.) > > Anyway, I was wondering if any of you out there in D.C. or Northern Virginia have done independent contractor work. That option appeals to me. (Taking depositions appeals to me but I don't know how familiar one would need to be with the case or if one just asks the questions the attorney supplies to him.) > > Thanks in advance for your help. > > Mike > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/timandvickie%40hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ Express your personality in color! Preview and select themes for Hotmail®. http://www.windowslive-hotmail.com/LearnMore/personalize.aspx?ocid=TXT_MSGTX_WL_HM_express_032009#colortheme From timandvickie at hotmail.com Mon Mar 9 20:40:36 2009 From: timandvickie at hotmail.com (Tim Shaw) Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 20:40:36 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] advice In-Reply-To: <243605.65358.qm@web90306.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <243605.65358.qm@web90306.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: id go ahead and apply at some firms an waht not, they may hire you on already working in a small capacity in contiengency of you passing > Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 09:17:16 -0700 > From: m_b_gilmore at yahoo.com > To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org > Subject: [blindlaw] advice > > Hi everybody. > > I'm writing this post because I am seeking some advice. I am Virginia barred (and as of two weeks ago, D.C. pending because I sat for the exam.) > > Until bar results come out in May, I'm looking for some legal work. The advice that I'm seeking is where I should look. Would a law firm or other legal entity desire me or someone who's a 3L? Obviously, Northern Virginia and D.C. is a big place with a lot of opportunity; I just don't know where to look. > > If anyone out there has any ideas, please let me know. > > Thanks. > > Mike > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/timandvickie%40hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live™ Groups: Create an online spot for your favorite groups to meet. http://windowslive.com/online/groups?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_groups_032009 From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Tue Mar 10 06:28:35 2009 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 23:28:35 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] advice In-Reply-To: <243605.65358.qm@web90306.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <243605.65358.qm@web90306.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Depending on what your interests many law firms will consider hiring prospective attorneys as clerks to do research and transactional work etc. until they receive their bar results. There are also volunteer opportunitites with legal aid programs or various organizations that do public interest law or advocacy. I would go through tne normal job search techniques, identifying potential firms and do necessary networking and pounding the pavement. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Gilmore" To: Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 9:17 AM Subject: [blindlaw] advice Hi everybody. I'm writing this post because I am seeking some advice. I am Virginia barred (and as of two weeks ago, D.C. pending because I sat for the exam.) Until bar results come out in May, I'm looking for some legal work. The advice that I'm seeking is where I should look. Would a law firm or other legal entity desire me or someone who's a 3L? Obviously, Northern Virginia and D.C. is a big place with a lot of opportunity; I just don't know where to look. If anyone out there has any ideas, please let me know. Thanks. Mike _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Tue Mar 10 06:31:55 2009 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 23:31:55 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] independent contractor? In-Reply-To: References: <895554.71292.qm@web90307.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Here in California there are agencies that hire temporary attorneys. Additionally, locally I have seen several ads on Craigslist looking for stand-in attorneys for court appearances and the like. I would check such places as Craigslist under "legal jobs" as well as general bar associations as well as publications for specialized bar associations, e.g. trial lawyers or as we know it in California Consumer Lawyers. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Shaw" To: Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 12:45 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] independent contractor? hmmm potential business idea a "temp agency" for lawyers, assigning independent ontractorsfor such tasks.... > Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 09:32:07 -0700 > From: m_b_gilmore at yahoo.com > To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org > Subject: [blindlaw] independent contractor? > > I am a member of a listserv for contract attorneys. Most of the e-mails > from that listserv concern document review; however, I read one the other > day about licensed attorneys working as independent contractors. (Examples > of this would be taking a deposition for another attorney or doing legal > research for another attorney or handling a court case for an attorney who > needs the help.) > > Anyway, I was wondering if any of you out there in D.C. or Northern > Virginia have done independent contractor work. That option appeals to > me. (Taking depositions appeals to me but I don't know how familiar one > would need to be with the case or if one just asks the questions the > attorney supplies to him.) > > Thanks in advance for your help. > > Mike > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/timandvickie%40hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ Express your personality in color! Preview and select themes for Hotmail®. http://www.windowslive-hotmail.com/LearnMore/personalize.aspx?ocid=TXT_MSGTX_WL_HM_express_032009#colortheme _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net From b75205 at gmail.com Tue Mar 10 08:46:22 2009 From: b75205 at gmail.com (James Pepper) Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 03:46:22 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. lsac complaint In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Scott: I laid out the first section of the LSAT to be accessible and I can send you the files if you would like to see it. Also I made the form that they use accessible so the blind can fill out the test without assistance. This works with JAWS and Window Eyes and a combination of Adobe's Read out Loud and Microsoft Narrator. My process works and if you need references at NFB, AFB and the AAPD I can send them to you. It took a while to figure out how they made thier pdfs and I know where they are making their mistakes. I can correct this problem. These PDFs are made to work natively with JAWS and Adobe Reader and the other screen readers without making any adjustments. They work with the default settings in Adobe Reader. Also the forms can be digitally signed and saved and all that fancy stuff that you expect with Adobe Acrobat Professional can be done with Adobe Reader, versions 8 or 9 which is the free download from Adobe.com. So we can make the LSAT accessible to anyone with a PC running Windows XP Or VIsta without any change of settings. This means the PC can be there for the sighted and the blind, with equal access for all. Also since I labeled everything, it will be a lot quicker for you to fill out this test! Sincerely, James G. Pepper On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 4:32 PM, Scott C. LaBarre wrote: > Below I am sharing the complaint that we filed today in California Court. > ************** > LaurEnce W. paradis (California Bar No. 122336) > > Anna levine (California Bar No. 227881) > > Disability Rights Advocates > > 2001 Center Street, Third Floor > > Berkeley, California 94704 > > Telephone: (510) 665-8644 > > Facsimile: (510) 665-8511 > > TTY: (510) 665-8716 > > > > SCOTT LABARRE (to seek pro hac vice admission) > > LABARRE LAW OFFICES, P.C. > > 1660 S. Albion Street, Ste 918 > > Denver, Colo 80222 > > Telephone: (303) 504-5979 > > Fax: (303) 757-3640 > > > > DANIEL F. GOLDSTEIN (to seek pro hac vice admission) > > MEHGAN Sidhu (to seek pro hac vice admission) > > Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP > > 120 E. Baltimore St., Suite 1700 > > Baltimore, MD 21202 > > Telephone: (410) 962-1030 > > Fax: (410) 385-0869 > > > > SUPERIOR COURT OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA > COUNTY OF ALAMEDA > > > > National Federation of the Blind, the National Federation of the Blind > of CALIFORNIA, and DEEPA GORAYA, > > > > Plaintiffs, > > v. > > LAW SCHOOL ADMISSION COUNCIL, INC., > > Defendant. > > > > Case No.: > > > > > > COMPLAINT FOR INJUNCTIVE AND DECLARATORY RELIEF FOR VIOLATIONS OF THE > CALIFORNIA DISABLED PERSONS ACT AND UNRUH CIVIL RIGHTS ACT > > > > > INTRODUCTION > > Plaintiffs complain of Defendant and allege herein as follows: > > 1. This action, brought by the National Federation of the Blind, > the National Federation of the Blind of California, and Deepa Goraya, seeks > to put an end to civil rights violations committed by defendant Law School > Admissions Council (hereafter "LSAC") against blind persons seeking to take > the LSAT exam and apply to law schools. Plaintiff Deepa Goraya, a blind law > school applicant in California, has been and is being denied equal access to > the accommodations, advantages, and facilities LSAC provides its > non-disabled customers through http://www.lsac.org (hereafter "lsac.org" > and "the website"). Plaintiffs National Federation of the Blind and the > National Federation of the Blind of California have members who are > similarly denied full and equal access to such accommodations, advantages > and facilities. Lsac.org is currently the only place online where > prospective law students can register for the Law School Admissions Test > ("LSAT"), apply to law schools, and obtain official LSAT test preparation > materials and information. Lsac.org contains multiple access barriers that > make it difficult if not impossible for blind law school applicants and LSAT > test takers to use the website and to obtain practice materials without > sighted assistance. LSAC thus excludes the blind, including Ms. Goraya, > from full and equal access to the accommodations, advantages, facilities, > and privileges of lsac.org. > > JURISDICTION > > 2. This is a civil action under California's Disabled Persons Act > (Cal. Civ. Code §§ 54, et seq.) and the Unruh Civil Rights Act (Cal. Civ. > Code §§ 51, et seq.) and for declaratory relief. This Court has > jurisdiction over the claims alleged herein pursuant to California Civil > Code §§ 54, et seq. and California Civil Code §§ 51, et seq. and California > Code of Civil Procedure section 1060. > > 3. This Court has jurisdiction over LSAC because LSAC is a > corporation authorized to do business in California and LSAC conducts > substantial business in California. LSAC owns, maintains and operates its > website, lsac.org, throughout California and in Alameda County. > > > > VENUE > > 4. Venue is proper in Alameda County because liability arises in > part in Alameda County, where the National Federation of the Blind of > California has its headquarters. LSAC has been and is committing the acts > alleged herein in Alameda County, has been and is violating the rights of > patrons in Alameda County, and has been and is causing injury to patrons in > Alameda County. > > 5. Plaintiff Goraya is a California citizen and has experienced > injury in California as a result of LSAC's inaccessible website and practice > materials. > > PARTIES > > 6. Plaintiff the National Federation of the Blind (hereafter "NFB") > is a national advocacy organization. The NFB, the oldest and largest > national organization of blind persons, is a non-profit corporation duly > organized under the laws of the District of Columbia with its principal > place of business in Baltimore, Maryland. It has affiliates in all 50 > states (including California) as well as Washington, D.C. and Puerto Rico. > The vast majority of the approximately 50,000 members are blind persons. > The NFB is widely recognized by the public, Congress, executive agencies of > government and the courts as a collective and representative voice on behalf > of blind Americans and their families. The purpose of the NFB is to promote > the general welfare of the blind by (1) assisting the blind in their efforts > to integrate themselves into society on terms of equality and (2) removing > barriers and changing social attitudes, stereotypes and mistaken beliefs > that sighted and blind persons hold concerning the limitations created by > blindness resulting in the denial of opportunity to blind persons in > virtually every sphere of life. The NFB and many of its members have long > been actively involved in promoting adaptive technology for the blind, so > that blind persons can live and work independently in today's > technology-dependent world. NFB members reside throughout the United > States, including the state of California, and many of its members would use > the services of lsac.org if this website is made independently usable by > the blind. > > 7. Plaintiff the National Federation of the Blind of California > (hereafter "NFB of California") is a state affiliate of the National > Federation of the Blind. NFB of California is a California corporation and > carries out NFB's objectives at the state level. It has local chapters > throughout California, including Alameda County, and has its headquarters in > Fremont, California, in Alameda County. > > 8. Plaintiff Goraya is a member of the NFB and the NFB of > California. She is blind and has been denied full and equal access to the > accommodations, advantages, facilities and privileges of lsac.org. > > 9. Defendant LSAC, is a non-profit corporation > established to coordinate, facilitate, and enhance the law school admissions > process. LSAC owns, operates and/or maintains the website lsac.com, a > public accommodation. Plaintiffs seek access to the services provided by > LSAC in California through lsac.org. > > FACTS > > 10. Lsac.org is owned, controlled and/or operated by LSAC. Lsac.org > is a public accommodation that offers its visitors comprehensive services > for applying to law school. The website functions as the official > destination for guiding prospective law school applicants through the > fundamental steps of applying to law school. Among its services, lsac.orgoffers information about the LSAT and law school application process, and > extensive LSAT preparation materials and resources. Lsac.org also serves as > the exclusive online means for registering for the LSAT and applying to > ABA-accredited law schools. > > 11. According to the website, lsac.org's online services enable > prospective law students to do the following, among other things: > > a.. Register for the LSAT > b.. Register for the LSDAS (Law School Data Assembly Service) > c.. Purchase publications and test preparation materials > d.. Have access to electronic applications for all ABA-approved law > schools > e.. Apply online to law schools > f.. Register for law school forums > g.. Have 24-hour file access > 12. In addition to facilitating the LSAT and law school application > processes, a significant portion of the lsac.org website is devoted to > preparing students to take the LSAT. Among the services offered in that > regard are online information guides that explain how to prepare for the > LSAT and free, downloadable sample practice tests and test questions. > Lsac.org also offers for a fee an online LSAT practice test tool and the > opportunity to purchase more than 40 official LSAT practice tests. > > 13. While sighted visitors to lsac.org can easily obtain the benefits and > advantages offered by the website, blind individuals, including Ms. Goraya, > have been and are being denied access to lsac.org due to LSAC's failure > and refusal to remove access barriers to lsac.org. Specifically, blind > visitors to the website, including Ms. Goraya, cannot independently apply to > law school, register for the LSAT, or obtain in an accessible format the > LSAT preparation materials and practice tests available through lsac.org. > > 14. The blind access websites by using keyboards in conjunction with > screen-reading software. This software vocalizes or conveys to a refreshable > Braille display information that appears visually on a computer screen. > Unless websites are designed to allow for use in this manner, blind persons > are unable to fully access the internet websites and the information, > products and services contained therein. > > 15. There are well-established guidelines for making websites > accessible to the blind. These guidelines have been in place for at least > several years and have been followed successfully by other public > accommodations in making their online services accessible. The Web > Accessibility Initiative (WAI), a project of the World Wide Web Consortium, > which is the leading standards organization for the Web, has developed > guidelines for making information that is reached via the internet > accessible. The federal government has also promulgated accessibility > standards under Section 508 of the Rehabilitation Act. These guidelines > have long been readily available via the internet so that any public > accommodation could easily secure the necessary information. > > 16. Lsac.org contains a variety of access barriers that prevent free > and full use by blind persons using keyboards and screen reading software. > These barriers include but are not limited to: lack of or improperly > labeled form controls; faulty keyboard navigation; and use of tables and > charts that are not formatted for accessibility. Form controls allow users > to input data on online forms and applications. These controls must be > coded and labeled to allow screen-access software to detect and vocalize the > requested information. Keyboard navigation refers to the ability to > successfully navigate a website using keyboard commands, as opposed to > requiring a mouse as the exclusive means for navigation of the site. > Further, charts and tables must be formatted to work with screen-access > software. Much of the lsac.org website, and in particular the online law > school application and LSAT registration sections of the website, lack these > fundamental accessibility components. As a result, blind visitors to the > website cannot independently use those and other critical features. > > 17. Lsac.org's test preparation materials that are available on the > website in Adobe Portable Document (PDF) format, are not properly "tagged." > This means that the headings, paragraphs, tables, image descriptions and > form controls are not easily discernable to screen-reading software. As a > result, these materials are cumbersome, if not impossible, for a blind > visitor to navigate. > > 18. Finally, lsac.org fails to offer LSAT practice tests, available > as part of its test preparation services, in formats accessible to the > blind. While the sighted can easily use the website to obtain more than 40 > formerly administered LSAT practice tests, the website fails to offer the > opportunity to purchase these practice materials in formats accessible to > the blind, such as Braille or an accessible electronic format. > > 19. As a result of lsac.org's accessibility barriers, blind law > school applicants, including Ms. Goraya, must go over extraordinary hurdles > to register and prepare for the LSAT and to apply to law school compared to > their sighted counterparts. After unsuccessfully attempting to use > lsac.org independently to register for the LSAT and fill out her law > school applications, for example, Plaintiff Goraya was forced to select and > rely upon a reader for over 50 hours simply to read aloud the content of the > website and complete her law school applications. Moreover, none of the > LSAT practice materials, which include previously administered versions of > the test, were available to her in accessible electronic formats. Lsac.org > thus contains numerous access barriers which deny full and equal access to > Plaintiff, who would otherwise use the accommodations, advantages, and > facilities of lsac.org. > > 20. On December 10, 2008, Plaintiff National Federation of the Blind > notified LSAC of the unlawful accessibility barriers on its website. LSAC > responded by setting up and then canceling a meeting with the NFB. On > January 22, 2009, the NFB notified LSAC that it intended to pursue legal > action against LSAC for the unlawful barriers on its website. > > FIRST CAUSE OF ACTION > > (Violation of Cal. Civ. Code §§ 54, et seq. - the Disabled Persons Act) > > 21. The allegations contained in the previous paragraphs are > incorporated by reference. > > 22. The Disabled Persons Act ("DPA") requires that individuals with > disabilities have "full and equal access, as other members of the general > public, to accommodations, advantages, facilities, . . . and other places to > which the general public is invited, subject only to the conditions and > limitations established by law, or state or federal regulation, and > applicable alike to all persons." Cal. Civ. Code 54.1(a)(1). > > 23. Lsac.org, which is owned, operated and/or maintained by LSAC, is > an > > accommodation, advantage, facility and/or place to which the general public > is invited, as those terms are used in Cal. Civ. Code § 54.1(a)(1). > > 24. Defendant's conduct alleged herein violates the DPA, including > Cal. Civ. Code § 54.1(a)(1), by denying the Plaintiffs full and equal access > to the accommodations, advantages and facilities of lsac.org. > > 25. As a result of Defendant's conduct, the NFB, the NFB of > California, and Ms. Goraya are entitled to injunctive relief requiring > Defendant to make lsac.org accessible to blind individuals, and to make > the LSAT test practice materials offered to lsac.org patrons available to > blind people in an accessible format. > > SECOND CAUSE OF ACTION > > (Violation of Cal.Civ. Code §§ 51, et seq. - The Unruh Act) > > 26. The allegations contained in the previous paragraphs are > incorporated by reference. > > 27. California's Unruh Act requires that individuals with > disabilities have "full and equal accommodations, advantages, facilities, > privileges or services in all business establishments of every kind > whatsoever." Cal. Civ. Code § 51(b). > > 28. LSAC and Lsac.org are business establishments as that term is > used in Cal. Civ. Code § 51(b) and lsac.org is an accommodation, > advantage, facility, privilege and service of LSAC. > > 29. Defendant's conduct alleged herein violates the Unruh Act, > including Cal. Civ. Code § 51(b), by denying Plaintiffs the full and equal > accommodations, advantages, facilities, privileges or services of LSAC and > lsac.org. > > 30. Defendant violated the Unruh Act intentionally and/or with > deliberate indifference to the likelihood that it was violating the rights > of blind people and/or Defendant's violations were so intuitive or obvious > that noncompliance could not be other than intentional. > > 31. As a result of Defendant's conduct, the NFB, the NFB of > California, and Ms. Goraya are entitled to injunctive relief requiring > Defendant to make lsac.org accessible to blind individuals, and to make > the LSAT test practice materials offered to lsac.org patrons available to > blind people in an accessible format. > > > > THIRD CAUSE OF ACTION > > (Declaratory Relief, Cal. Civ. Proc. § 1060 ) > > 32. The allegations contained in the previous paragraphs are > incorporated by reference. > > 33. On information and belief, Defendants contend that they may > lawfully deny Plaintiffs access to their website and its contents. > Plaintiffs contend that lsac.org, which LSAC owns, operates, and/or > controls, must provide blind patrons access to its website and website > contents under California Civil Code §§ 54, et seq. and California Civil > Code §§ 51, et seq., which prohibit discrimination against the blind. > > 34. A judicial declaration is necessary and appropriate at this time > in order that each of the parties may know their respective rights and > duties and act accordingly. > > WHEREFORE, Plaintiffs request relief as set forth below. > > RELIEF REQUESTED > > WHEREFORE, Plaintiffs pray for judgment as follows: > > 1. An order enjoining LSAC from violating California > Civil Code §§ 51, et seq. and §§ 54, et seq.; > > 2. A declaration that LSAC is owning, maintaining and/or > operating lsac.org in a manner which discriminates against the blind and > which fails to provide access for persons with disabilities as required by > law; > > 3. Plaintiffs' reasonable attorneys' fees and costs as > authorized by California California Civil Code §§ 54, et seq., California > Civil Code §§ 51, et seq., and pursuant to California Code of Civil > Procedure § 1021.5. > > 4. Such other and further relief as the Court deems just > and proper. > > > > DATED: > DISABILITY RIGHTS ADVOCATES > > > > By: > ____________________________ > > > Laurence W. Paradis > > > > > > Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. > > LaBarre Law Offices P.C. > 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 > Denver, Colorado 80222 > 303 504-5979 (voice) > 303 757-3640 (fax) > slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) > www.labarrelaw.com (website) > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and > privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not > read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message > in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or > slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. This > message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic > Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b75205%40gmail.com > > From bspiry at comcast.net Tue Mar 10 14:05:20 2009 From: bspiry at comcast.net (Bill Spiry) Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 07:05:20 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. lsac complaint In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <001401c9a189$3fa59ee0$bef0dca0$@net> I would appreciate receiving this as well. Thanks. bspiry at comcast.net -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of James Pepper Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 1:46 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. lsac complaint Scott: I laid out the first section of the LSAT to be accessible and I can send you the files if you would like to see it. Also I made the form that they use accessible so the blind can fill out the test without assistance. This works with JAWS and Window Eyes and a combination of Adobe's Read out Loud and Microsoft Narrator. My process works and if you need references at NFB, AFB and the AAPD I can send them to you. It took a while to figure out how they made thier pdfs and I know where they are making their mistakes. I can correct this problem. These PDFs are made to work natively with JAWS and Adobe Reader and the other screen readers without making any adjustments. They work with the default settings in Adobe Reader. Also the forms can be digitally signed and saved and all that fancy stuff that you expect with Adobe Acrobat Professional can be done with Adobe Reader, versions 8 or 9 which is the free download from Adobe.com. So we can make the LSAT accessible to anyone with a PC running Windows XP Or VIsta without any change of settings. This means the PC can be there for the sighted and the blind, with equal access for all. Also since I labeled everything, it will be a lot quicker for you to fill out this test! Sincerely, James G. Pepper On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 4:32 PM, Scott C. LaBarre wrote: > Below I am sharing the complaint that we filed today in California Court. > ************** > LaurEnce W. paradis (California Bar No. 122336) > > Anna levine (California Bar No. 227881) > > Disability Rights Advocates > > 2001 Center Street, Third Floor > > Berkeley, California 94704 > > Telephone: (510) 665-8644 > > Facsimile: (510) 665-8511 > > TTY: (510) 665-8716 > > > > SCOTT LABARRE (to seek pro hac vice admission) > > LABARRE LAW OFFICES, P.C. > > 1660 S. Albion Street, Ste 918 > > Denver, Colo 80222 > > Telephone: (303) 504-5979 > > Fax: (303) 757-3640 > > > > DANIEL F. GOLDSTEIN (to seek pro hac vice admission) > > MEHGAN Sidhu (to seek pro hac vice admission) > > Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP > > 120 E. Baltimore St., Suite 1700 > > Baltimore, MD 21202 > > Telephone: (410) 962-1030 > > Fax: (410) 385-0869 > > > > SUPERIOR COURT OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA > COUNTY OF ALAMEDA > > > > National Federation of the Blind, the National Federation of the Blind > of CALIFORNIA, and DEEPA GORAYA, > > > > Plaintiffs, > > v. > > LAW SCHOOL ADMISSION COUNCIL, INC., > > Defendant. > > > > Case No.: > > > > > > COMPLAINT FOR INJUNCTIVE AND DECLARATORY RELIEF FOR VIOLATIONS OF THE > CALIFORNIA DISABLED PERSONS ACT AND UNRUH CIVIL RIGHTS ACT > > > > > INTRODUCTION > > Plaintiffs complain of Defendant and allege herein as follows: > > 1. This action, brought by the National Federation of the Blind, > the National Federation of the Blind of California, and Deepa Goraya, seeks > to put an end to civil rights violations committed by defendant Law School > Admissions Council (hereafter "LSAC") against blind persons seeking to take > the LSAT exam and apply to law schools. Plaintiff Deepa Goraya, a blind law > school applicant in California, has been and is being denied equal access to > the accommodations, advantages, and facilities LSAC provides its > non-disabled customers through http://www.lsac.org (hereafter "lsac.org" > and "the website"). Plaintiffs National Federation of the Blind and the > National Federation of the Blind of California have members who are > similarly denied full and equal access to such accommodations, advantages > and facilities. Lsac.org is currently the only place online where > prospective law students can register for the Law School Admissions Test > ("LSAT"), apply to law schools, and obtain official LSAT test preparation > materials and information. Lsac.org contains multiple access barriers that > make it difficult if not impossible for blind law school applicants and LSAT > test takers to use the website and to obtain practice materials without > sighted assistance. LSAC thus excludes the blind, including Ms. Goraya, > from full and equal access to the accommodations, advantages, facilities, > and privileges of lsac.org. > > JURISDICTION > > 2. This is a civil action under California's Disabled Persons Act > (Cal. Civ. Code §§ 54, et seq.) and the Unruh Civil Rights Act (Cal. Civ. > Code §§ 51, et seq.) and for declaratory relief. This Court has > jurisdiction over the claims alleged herein pursuant to California Civil > Code §§ 54, et seq. and California Civil Code §§ 51, et seq. and California > Code of Civil Procedure section 1060. > > 3. This Court has jurisdiction over LSAC because LSAC is a > corporation authorized to do business in California and LSAC conducts > substantial business in California. LSAC owns, maintains and operates its > website, lsac.org, throughout California and in Alameda County. > > > > VENUE > > 4. Venue is proper in Alameda County because liability arises in > part in Alameda County, where the National Federation of the Blind of > California has its headquarters. LSAC has been and is committing the acts > alleged herein in Alameda County, has been and is violating the rights of > patrons in Alameda County, and has been and is causing injury to patrons in > Alameda County. > > 5. Plaintiff Goraya is a California citizen and has experienced > injury in California as a result of LSAC's inaccessible website and practice > materials. > > PARTIES > > 6. Plaintiff the National Federation of the Blind (hereafter "NFB") > is a national advocacy organization. The NFB, the oldest and largest > national organization of blind persons, is a non-profit corporation duly > organized under the laws of the District of Columbia with its principal > place of business in Baltimore, Maryland. It has affiliates in all 50 > states (including California) as well as Washington, D.C. and Puerto Rico. > The vast majority of the approximately 50,000 members are blind persons. > The NFB is widely recognized by the public, Congress, executive agencies of > government and the courts as a collective and representative voice on behalf > of blind Americans and their families. The purpose of the NFB is to promote > the general welfare of the blind by (1) assisting the blind in their efforts > to integrate themselves into society on terms of equality and (2) removing > barriers and changing social attitudes, stereotypes and mistaken beliefs > that sighted and blind persons hold concerning the limitations created by > blindness resulting in the denial of opportunity to blind persons in > virtually every sphere of life. The NFB and many of its members have long > been actively involved in promoting adaptive technology for the blind, so > that blind persons can live and work independently in today's > technology-dependent world. NFB members reside throughout the United > States, including the state of California, and many of its members would use > the services of lsac.org if this website is made independently usable by > the blind. > > 7. Plaintiff the National Federation of the Blind of California > (hereafter "NFB of California") is a state affiliate of the National > Federation of the Blind. NFB of California is a California corporation and > carries out NFB's objectives at the state level. It has local chapters > throughout California, including Alameda County, and has its headquarters in > Fremont, California, in Alameda County. > > 8. Plaintiff Goraya is a member of the NFB and the NFB of > California. She is blind and has been denied full and equal access to the > accommodations, advantages, facilities and privileges of lsac.org. > > 9. Defendant LSAC, is a non-profit corporation > established to coordinate, facilitate, and enhance the law school admissions > process. LSAC owns, operates and/or maintains the website lsac.com, a > public accommodation. Plaintiffs seek access to the services provided by > LSAC in California through lsac.org. > > FACTS > > 10. Lsac.org is owned, controlled and/or operated by LSAC. Lsac.org > is a public accommodation that offers its visitors comprehensive services > for applying to law school. The website functions as the official > destination for guiding prospective law school applicants through the > fundamental steps of applying to law school. Among its services, lsac.orgoffers information about the LSAT and law school application process, and > extensive LSAT preparation materials and resources. Lsac.org also serves as > the exclusive online means for registering for the LSAT and applying to > ABA-accredited law schools. > > 11. According to the website, lsac.org's online services enable > prospective law students to do the following, among other things: > > a.. Register for the LSAT > b.. Register for the LSDAS (Law School Data Assembly Service) > c.. Purchase publications and test preparation materials > d.. Have access to electronic applications for all ABA-approved law > schools > e.. Apply online to law schools > f.. Register for law school forums > g.. Have 24-hour file access > 12. In addition to facilitating the LSAT and law school application > processes, a significant portion of the lsac.org website is devoted to > preparing students to take the LSAT. Among the services offered in that > regard are online information guides that explain how to prepare for the > LSAT and free, downloadable sample practice tests and test questions. > Lsac.org also offers for a fee an online LSAT practice test tool and the > opportunity to purchase more than 40 official LSAT practice tests. > > 13. While sighted visitors to lsac.org can easily obtain the benefits and > advantages offered by the website, blind individuals, including Ms. Goraya, > have been and are being denied access to lsac.org due to LSAC's failure > and refusal to remove access barriers to lsac.org. Specifically, blind > visitors to the website, including Ms. Goraya, cannot independently apply to > law school, register for the LSAT, or obtain in an accessible format the > LSAT preparation materials and practice tests available through lsac.org. > > 14. The blind access websites by using keyboards in conjunction with > screen-reading software. This software vocalizes or conveys to a refreshable > Braille display information that appears visually on a computer screen. > Unless websites are designed to allow for use in this manner, blind persons > are unable to fully access the internet websites and the information, > products and services contained therein. > > 15. There are well-established guidelines for making websites > accessible to the blind. These guidelines have been in place for at least > several years and have been followed successfully by other public > accommodations in making their online services accessible. The Web > Accessibility Initiative (WAI), a project of the World Wide Web Consortium, > which is the leading standards organization for the Web, has developed > guidelines for making information that is reached via the internet > accessible. The federal government has also promulgated accessibility > standards under Section 508 of the Rehabilitation Act. These guidelines > have long been readily available via the internet so that any public > accommodation could easily secure the necessary information. > > 16. Lsac.org contains a variety of access barriers that prevent free > and full use by blind persons using keyboards and screen reading software. > These barriers include but are not limited to: lack of or improperly > labeled form controls; faulty keyboard navigation; and use of tables and > charts that are not formatted for accessibility. Form controls allow users > to input data on online forms and applications. These controls must be > coded and labeled to allow screen-access software to detect and vocalize the > requested information. Keyboard navigation refers to the ability to > successfully navigate a website using keyboard commands, as opposed to > requiring a mouse as the exclusive means for navigation of the site. > Further, charts and tables must be formatted to work with screen-access > software. Much of the lsac.org website, and in particular the online law > school application and LSAT registration sections of the website, lack these > fundamental accessibility components. As a result, blind visitors to the > website cannot independently use those and other critical features. > > 17. Lsac.org's test preparation materials that are available on the > website in Adobe Portable Document (PDF) format, are not properly "tagged." > This means that the headings, paragraphs, tables, image descriptions and > form controls are not easily discernable to screen-reading software. As a > result, these materials are cumbersome, if not impossible, for a blind > visitor to navigate. > > 18. Finally, lsac.org fails to offer LSAT practice tests, available > as part of its test preparation services, in formats accessible to the > blind. While the sighted can easily use the website to obtain more than 40 > formerly administered LSAT practice tests, the website fails to offer the > opportunity to purchase these practice materials in formats accessible to > the blind, such as Braille or an accessible electronic format. > > 19. As a result of lsac.org's accessibility barriers, blind law > school applicants, including Ms. Goraya, must go over extraordinary hurdles > to register and prepare for the LSAT and to apply to law school compared to > their sighted counterparts. After unsuccessfully attempting to use > lsac.org independently to register for the LSAT and fill out her law > school applications, for example, Plaintiff Goraya was forced to select and > rely upon a reader for over 50 hours simply to read aloud the content of the > website and complete her law school applications. Moreover, none of the > LSAT practice materials, which include previously administered versions of > the test, were available to her in accessible electronic formats. Lsac.org > thus contains numerous access barriers which deny full and equal access to > Plaintiff, who would otherwise use the accommodations, advantages, and > facilities of lsac.org. > > 20. On December 10, 2008, Plaintiff National Federation of the Blind > notified LSAC of the unlawful accessibility barriers on its website. LSAC > responded by setting up and then canceling a meeting with the NFB. On > January 22, 2009, the NFB notified LSAC that it intended to pursue legal > action against LSAC for the unlawful barriers on its website. > > FIRST CAUSE OF ACTION > > (Violation of Cal. Civ. Code §§ 54, et seq. - the Disabled Persons Act) > > 21. The allegations contained in the previous paragraphs are > incorporated by reference. > > 22. The Disabled Persons Act ("DPA") requires that individuals with > disabilities have "full and equal access, as other members of the general > public, to accommodations, advantages, facilities, . . . and other places to > which the general public is invited, subject only to the conditions and > limitations established by law, or state or federal regulation, and > applicable alike to all persons." Cal. Civ. Code 54.1(a)(1). > > 23. Lsac.org, which is owned, operated and/or maintained by LSAC, is > an > > accommodation, advantage, facility and/or place to which the general public > is invited, as those terms are used in Cal. Civ. Code § 54.1(a)(1). > > 24. Defendant's conduct alleged herein violates the DPA, including > Cal. Civ. Code § 54.1(a)(1), by denying the Plaintiffs full and equal access > to the accommodations, advantages and facilities of lsac.org. > > 25. As a result of Defendant's conduct, the NFB, the NFB of > California, and Ms. Goraya are entitled to injunctive relief requiring > Defendant to make lsac.org accessible to blind individuals, and to make > the LSAT test practice materials offered to lsac.org patrons available to > blind people in an accessible format. > > SECOND CAUSE OF ACTION > > (Violation of Cal.Civ. Code §§ 51, et seq. - The Unruh Act) > > 26. The allegations contained in the previous paragraphs are > incorporated by reference. > > 27. California's Unruh Act requires that individuals with > disabilities have "full and equal accommodations, advantages, facilities, > privileges or services in all business establishments of every kind > whatsoever." Cal. Civ. Code § 51(b). > > 28. LSAC and Lsac.org are business establishments as that term is > used in Cal. Civ. Code § 51(b) and lsac.org is an accommodation, > advantage, facility, privilege and service of LSAC. > > 29. Defendant's conduct alleged herein violates the Unruh Act, > including Cal. Civ. Code § 51(b), by denying Plaintiffs the full and equal > accommodations, advantages, facilities, privileges or services of LSAC and > lsac.org. > > 30. Defendant violated the Unruh Act intentionally and/or with > deliberate indifference to the likelihood that it was violating the rights > of blind people and/or Defendant's violations were so intuitive or obvious > that noncompliance could not be other than intentional. > > 31. As a result of Defendant's conduct, the NFB, the NFB of > California, and Ms. Goraya are entitled to injunctive relief requiring > Defendant to make lsac.org accessible to blind individuals, and to make > the LSAT test practice materials offered to lsac.org patrons available to > blind people in an accessible format. > > > > THIRD CAUSE OF ACTION > > (Declaratory Relief, Cal. Civ. Proc. § 1060 ) > > 32. The allegations contained in the previous paragraphs are > incorporated by reference. > > 33. On information and belief, Defendants contend that they may > lawfully deny Plaintiffs access to their website and its contents. > Plaintiffs contend that lsac.org, which LSAC owns, operates, and/or > controls, must provide blind patrons access to its website and website > contents under California Civil Code §§ 54, et seq. and California Civil > Code §§ 51, et seq., which prohibit discrimination against the blind. > > 34. A judicial declaration is necessary and appropriate at this time > in order that each of the parties may know their respective rights and > duties and act accordingly. > > WHEREFORE, Plaintiffs request relief as set forth below. > > RELIEF REQUESTED > > WHEREFORE, Plaintiffs pray for judgment as follows: > > 1. An order enjoining LSAC from violating California > Civil Code §§ 51, et seq. and §§ 54, et seq.; > > 2. A declaration that LSAC is owning, maintaining and/or > operating lsac.org in a manner which discriminates against the blind and > which fails to provide access for persons with disabilities as required by > law; > > 3. Plaintiffs' reasonable attorneys' fees and costs as > authorized by California California Civil Code §§ 54, et seq., California > Civil Code §§ 51, et seq., and pursuant to California Code of Civil > Procedure § 1021.5. > > 4. Such other and further relief as the Court deems just > and proper. > > > > DATED: > DISABILITY RIGHTS ADVOCATES > > > > By: > ____________________________ > > > Laurence W. Paradis > > > > > > Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. > > LaBarre Law Offices P.C. > 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 > Denver, Colorado 80222 > 303 504-5979 (voice) > 303 757-3640 (fax) > slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) > www.labarrelaw.com (website) > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and > privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not > read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message > in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or > slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. This > message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic > Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b75205%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/bspiry%40comcast.n et From b75205 at gmail.com Tue Mar 10 17:42:38 2009 From: b75205 at gmail.com (James Pepper) Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 12:42:38 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. lsac complaint In-Reply-To: <001401c9a189$3fa59ee0$bef0dca0$@net> References: <001401c9a189$3fa59ee0$bef0dca0$@net> Message-ID: Well Bill the content is copyrighted by LSAC so I am not sure I can send this to you. Perhaps some on this list can give that advice. I laid it out properly. James On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 9:05 AM, Bill Spiry wrote: > I would appreciate receiving this as well. Thanks. > bspiry at comcast.net > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of James Pepper > Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 1:46 AM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. lsac complaint > > Scott: I laid out the first section of the LSAT to be accessible and I > can > send you the files if you would like to see it. Also I made the form that > they use accessible so the blind can fill out the test without assistance. > This works with JAWS and Window Eyes and a combination of Adobe's Read out > Loud and Microsoft Narrator. My process works and if you need references > at > NFB, AFB and the AAPD I can send them to you. > > It took a while to figure out how they made thier pdfs and I know where > they > are making their mistakes. I can correct this problem. These PDFs are made > to work natively with JAWS and Adobe Reader and the other screen readers > without making any adjustments. They work with the default settings in > Adobe Reader. > > Also the forms can be digitally signed and saved and all that fancy stuff > that you expect with Adobe Acrobat Professional can be done with > Adobe Reader, versions 8 or 9 which is the free download from Adobe.com. > So > we can make the LSAT accessible to anyone with a PC running Windows XP Or > VIsta without any change of settings. This means the PC can be there for > the sighted and the blind, with equal access for all. > > Also since I labeled everything, it will be a lot quicker for you to fill > out this test! > > Sincerely, > > James G. Pepper > > > > On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 4:32 PM, Scott C. LaBarre > wrote: > > > Below I am sharing the complaint that we filed today in California Court. > > ************** > > LaurEnce W. paradis (California Bar No. 122336) > > > > Anna levine (California Bar No. 227881) > > > > Disability Rights Advocates > > > > 2001 Center Street, Third Floor > > > > Berkeley, California 94704 > > > > Telephone: (510) 665-8644 > > > > Facsimile: (510) 665-8511 > > > > TTY: (510) 665-8716 > > > > > > > > SCOTT LABARRE (to seek pro hac vice admission) > > > > LABARRE LAW OFFICES, P.C. > > > > 1660 S. Albion Street, Ste 918 > > > > Denver, Colo 80222 > > > > Telephone: (303) 504-5979 > > > > Fax: (303) 757-3640 > > > > > > > > DANIEL F. GOLDSTEIN (to seek pro hac vice admission) > > > > MEHGAN Sidhu (to seek pro hac vice admission) > > > > Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP > > > > 120 E. Baltimore St., Suite 1700 > > > > Baltimore, MD 21202 > > > > Telephone: (410) 962-1030 > > > > Fax: (410) 385-0869 > > > > > > > > SUPERIOR COURT OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA > > COUNTY OF ALAMEDA > > > > > > > > National Federation of the Blind, the National Federation of the > Blind > > of CALIFORNIA, and DEEPA GORAYA, > > > > > > > > Plaintiffs, > > > > v. > > > > LAW SCHOOL ADMISSION COUNCIL, INC., > > > > Defendant. > > > > > > > > Case No.: > > > > > > > > > > > > COMPLAINT FOR INJUNCTIVE AND DECLARATORY RELIEF FOR VIOLATIONS OF > THE > > CALIFORNIA DISABLED PERSONS ACT AND UNRUH CIVIL RIGHTS ACT > > > > > > > > > > INTRODUCTION > > > > Plaintiffs complain of Defendant and allege herein as follows: > > > > 1. This action, brought by the National Federation of the Blind, > > the National Federation of the Blind of California, and Deepa Goraya, > seeks > > to put an end to civil rights violations committed by defendant Law > School > > Admissions Council (hereafter "LSAC") against blind persons seeking to > take > > the LSAT exam and apply to law schools. Plaintiff Deepa Goraya, a blind > law > > school applicant in California, has been and is being denied equal access > to > > the accommodations, advantages, and facilities LSAC provides its > > non-disabled customers through http://www.lsac.org (hereafter "lsac.org" > > and "the website"). Plaintiffs National Federation of the Blind and the > > National Federation of the Blind of California have members who are > > similarly denied full and equal access to such accommodations, advantages > > and facilities. Lsac.org is currently the only place online where > > prospective law students can register for the Law School Admissions Test > > ("LSAT"), apply to law schools, and obtain official LSAT test preparation > > materials and information. Lsac.org contains multiple access barriers > that > > make it difficult if not impossible for blind law school applicants and > LSAT > > test takers to use the website and to obtain practice materials without > > sighted assistance. LSAC thus excludes the blind, including Ms. Goraya, > > from full and equal access to the accommodations, advantages, facilities, > > and privileges of lsac.org. > > > > JURISDICTION > > > > 2. This is a civil action under California's Disabled Persons Act > > (Cal. Civ. Code §§ 54, et seq.) and the Unruh Civil Rights Act (Cal. Civ. > > Code §§ 51, et seq.) and for declaratory relief. This Court has > > jurisdiction over the claims alleged herein pursuant to California Civil > > Code §§ 54, et seq. and California Civil Code §§ 51, et seq. and > California > > Code of Civil Procedure section 1060. > > > > 3. This Court has jurisdiction over LSAC because LSAC is a > > corporation authorized to do business in California and LSAC conducts > > substantial business in California. LSAC owns, maintains and operates its > > website, lsac.org, throughout California and in Alameda County. > > > > > > > > VENUE > > > > 4. Venue is proper in Alameda County because liability arises in > > part in Alameda County, where the National Federation of the Blind of > > California has its headquarters. LSAC has been and is committing the > acts > > alleged herein in Alameda County, has been and is violating the rights of > > patrons in Alameda County, and has been and is causing injury to patrons > in > > Alameda County. > > > > 5. Plaintiff Goraya is a California citizen and has experienced > > injury in California as a result of LSAC's inaccessible website and > practice > > materials. > > > > PARTIES > > > > 6. Plaintiff the National Federation of the Blind (hereafter > "NFB") > > is a national advocacy organization. The NFB, the oldest and largest > > national organization of blind persons, is a non-profit corporation duly > > organized under the laws of the District of Columbia with its principal > > place of business in Baltimore, Maryland. It has affiliates in all 50 > > states (including California) as well as Washington, D.C. and Puerto > Rico. > > The vast majority of the approximately 50,000 members are blind persons. > > The NFB is widely recognized by the public, Congress, executive agencies > of > > government and the courts as a collective and representative voice on > behalf > > of blind Americans and their families. The purpose of the NFB is to > promote > > the general welfare of the blind by (1) assisting the blind in their > efforts > > to integrate themselves into society on terms of equality and (2) > removing > > barriers and changing social attitudes, stereotypes and mistaken beliefs > > that sighted and blind persons hold concerning the limitations created by > > blindness resulting in the denial of opportunity to blind persons in > > virtually every sphere of life. The NFB and many of its members have > long > > been actively involved in promoting adaptive technology for the blind, so > > that blind persons can live and work independently in today's > > technology-dependent world. NFB members reside throughout the United > > States, including the state of California, and many of its members would > use > > the services of lsac.org if this website is made independently usable by > > the blind. > > > > 7. Plaintiff the National Federation of the Blind of California > > (hereafter "NFB of California") is a state affiliate of the National > > Federation of the Blind. NFB of California is a California corporation > and > > carries out NFB's objectives at the state level. It has local chapters > > throughout California, including Alameda County, and has its headquarters > in > > Fremont, California, in Alameda County. > > > > 8. Plaintiff Goraya is a member of the NFB and the NFB of > > California. She is blind and has been denied full and equal access to > the > > accommodations, advantages, facilities and privileges of lsac.org. > > > > 9. Defendant LSAC, is a non-profit corporation > > established to coordinate, facilitate, and enhance the law school > admissions > > process. LSAC owns, operates and/or maintains the website lsac.com, a > > public accommodation. Plaintiffs seek access to the services provided by > > LSAC in California through lsac.org. > > > > FACTS > > > > 10. Lsac.org is owned, controlled and/or operated by LSAC. > Lsac.org > > is a public accommodation that offers its visitors comprehensive services > > for applying to law school. The website functions as the official > > destination for guiding prospective law school applicants through the > > fundamental steps of applying to law school. Among its services, > lsac.orgoffers information about the LSAT and law school application > process, and > > extensive LSAT preparation materials and resources. Lsac.org also serves > as > > the exclusive online means for registering for the LSAT and applying to > > ABA-accredited law schools. > > > > 11. According to the website, lsac.org's online services enable > > prospective law students to do the following, among other things: > > > > a.. Register for the LSAT > > b.. Register for the LSDAS (Law School Data Assembly Service) > > c.. Purchase publications and test preparation materials > > d.. Have access to electronic applications for all ABA-approved law > > schools > > e.. Apply online to law schools > > f.. Register for law school forums > > g.. Have 24-hour file access > > 12. In addition to facilitating the LSAT and law school application > > processes, a significant portion of the lsac.org website is devoted to > > preparing students to take the LSAT. Among the services offered in that > > regard are online information guides that explain how to prepare for the > > LSAT and free, downloadable sample practice tests and test questions. > > Lsac.org also offers for a fee an online LSAT practice test tool and the > > opportunity to purchase more than 40 official LSAT practice tests. > > > > 13. While sighted visitors to lsac.org can easily obtain the benefits > and > > advantages offered by the website, blind individuals, including Ms. > Goraya, > > have been and are being denied access to lsac.org due to LSAC's failure > > and refusal to remove access barriers to lsac.org. Specifically, blind > > visitors to the website, including Ms. Goraya, cannot independently apply > to > > law school, register for the LSAT, or obtain in an accessible format the > > LSAT preparation materials and practice tests available through lsac.org > . > > > > 14. The blind access websites by using keyboards in conjunction > with > > screen-reading software. This software vocalizes or conveys to a > refreshable > > Braille display information that appears visually on a computer screen. > > Unless websites are designed to allow for use in this manner, blind > persons > > are unable to fully access the internet websites and the information, > > products and services contained therein. > > > > 15. There are well-established guidelines for making websites > > accessible to the blind. These guidelines have been in place for at > least > > several years and have been followed successfully by other public > > accommodations in making their online services accessible. The Web > > Accessibility Initiative (WAI), a project of the World Wide Web > Consortium, > > which is the leading standards organization for the Web, has developed > > guidelines for making information that is reached via the internet > > accessible. The federal government has also promulgated accessibility > > standards under Section 508 of the Rehabilitation Act. These guidelines > > have long been readily available via the internet so that any public > > accommodation could easily secure the necessary information. > > > > 16. Lsac.org contains a variety of access barriers that prevent > free > > and full use by blind persons using keyboards and screen reading > software. > > These barriers include but are not limited to: lack of or improperly > > labeled form controls; faulty keyboard navigation; and use of tables and > > charts that are not formatted for accessibility. Form controls allow > users > > to input data on online forms and applications. These controls must be > > coded and labeled to allow screen-access software to detect and vocalize > the > > requested information. Keyboard navigation refers to the ability to > > successfully navigate a website using keyboard commands, as opposed to > > requiring a mouse as the exclusive means for navigation of the site. > > Further, charts and tables must be formatted to work with screen-access > > software. Much of the lsac.org website, and in particular the online > law > > school application and LSAT registration sections of the website, lack > these > > fundamental accessibility components. As a result, blind visitors to the > > website cannot independently use those and other critical features. > > > > 17. Lsac.org's test preparation materials that are available on the > > website in Adobe Portable Document (PDF) format, are not properly > "tagged." > > This means that the headings, paragraphs, tables, image descriptions and > > form controls are not easily discernable to screen-reading software. As > a > > result, these materials are cumbersome, if not impossible, for a blind > > visitor to navigate. > > > > 18. Finally, lsac.org fails to offer LSAT practice tests, > available > > as part of its test preparation services, in formats accessible to the > > blind. While the sighted can easily use the website to obtain more than > 40 > > formerly administered LSAT practice tests, the website fails to offer the > > opportunity to purchase these practice materials in formats accessible to > > the blind, such as Braille or an accessible electronic format. > > > > 19. As a result of lsac.org's accessibility barriers, blind law > > school applicants, including Ms. Goraya, must go over extraordinary > hurdles > > to register and prepare for the LSAT and to apply to law school compared > to > > their sighted counterparts. After unsuccessfully attempting to use > > lsac.org independently to register for the LSAT and fill out her law > > school applications, for example, Plaintiff Goraya was forced to select > and > > rely upon a reader for over 50 hours simply to read aloud the content of > the > > website and complete her law school applications. Moreover, none of the > > LSAT practice materials, which include previously administered versions > of > > the test, were available to her in accessible electronic formats. > Lsac.org > > thus contains numerous access barriers which deny full and equal access > to > > Plaintiff, who would otherwise use the accommodations, advantages, and > > facilities of lsac.org. > > > > 20. On December 10, 2008, Plaintiff National Federation of the > Blind > > notified LSAC of the unlawful accessibility barriers on its website. > LSAC > > responded by setting up and then canceling a meeting with the NFB. On > > January 22, 2009, the NFB notified LSAC that it intended to pursue legal > > action against LSAC for the unlawful barriers on its website. > > > > FIRST CAUSE OF ACTION > > > > (Violation of Cal. Civ. Code §§ 54, et seq. - the Disabled Persons Act) > > > > 21. The allegations contained in the previous paragraphs are > > incorporated by reference. > > > > 22. The Disabled Persons Act ("DPA") requires that individuals with > > disabilities have "full and equal access, as other members of the general > > public, to accommodations, advantages, facilities, . . . and other places > to > > which the general public is invited, subject only to the conditions and > > limitations established by law, or state or federal regulation, and > > applicable alike to all persons." Cal. Civ. Code 54.1(a)(1). > > > > 23. Lsac.org, which is owned, operated and/or maintained by LSAC, > is > > an > > > > accommodation, advantage, facility and/or place to which the general > public > > is invited, as those terms are used in Cal. Civ. Code § 54.1(a)(1). > > > > 24. Defendant's conduct alleged herein violates the DPA, including > > Cal. Civ. Code § 54.1(a)(1), by denying the Plaintiffs full and equal > access > > to the accommodations, advantages and facilities of lsac.org. > > > > 25. As a result of Defendant's conduct, the NFB, the NFB of > > California, and Ms. Goraya are entitled to injunctive relief requiring > > Defendant to make lsac.org accessible to blind individuals, and to make > > the LSAT test practice materials offered to lsac.org patrons available > to > > blind people in an accessible format. > > > > SECOND CAUSE OF ACTION > > > > (Violation of Cal.Civ. Code §§ 51, et seq. - The Unruh Act) > > > > 26. The allegations contained in the previous paragraphs are > > incorporated by reference. > > > > 27. California's Unruh Act requires that individuals with > > disabilities have "full and equal accommodations, advantages, facilities, > > privileges or services in all business establishments of every kind > > whatsoever." Cal. Civ. Code § 51(b). > > > > 28. LSAC and Lsac.org are business establishments as that term is > > used in Cal. Civ. Code § 51(b) and lsac.org is an accommodation, > > advantage, facility, privilege and service of LSAC. > > > > 29. Defendant's conduct alleged herein violates the Unruh Act, > > including Cal. Civ. Code § 51(b), by denying Plaintiffs the full and > equal > > accommodations, advantages, facilities, privileges or services of LSAC > and > > lsac.org. > > > > 30. Defendant violated the Unruh Act intentionally and/or with > > deliberate indifference to the likelihood that it was violating the > rights > > of blind people and/or Defendant's violations were so intuitive or > obvious > > that noncompliance could not be other than intentional. > > > > 31. As a result of Defendant's conduct, the NFB, the NFB of > > California, and Ms. Goraya are entitled to injunctive relief requiring > > Defendant to make lsac.org accessible to blind individuals, and to make > > the LSAT test practice materials offered to lsac.org patrons available > to > > blind people in an accessible format. > > > > > > > > THIRD CAUSE OF ACTION > > > > (Declaratory Relief, Cal. Civ. Proc. § 1060 ) > > > > 32. The allegations contained in the previous paragraphs are > > incorporated by reference. > > > > 33. On information and belief, Defendants contend that they may > > lawfully deny Plaintiffs access to their website and its contents. > > Plaintiffs contend that lsac.org, which LSAC owns, operates, and/or > > controls, must provide blind patrons access to its website and website > > contents under California Civil Code §§ 54, et seq. and California Civil > > Code §§ 51, et seq., which prohibit discrimination against the blind. > > > > 34. A judicial declaration is necessary and appropriate at this > time > > in order that each of the parties may know their respective rights and > > duties and act accordingly. > > > > WHEREFORE, Plaintiffs request relief as set forth below. > > > > RELIEF REQUESTED > > > > WHEREFORE, Plaintiffs pray for judgment as follows: > > > > 1. An order enjoining LSAC from violating California > > Civil Code §§ 51, et seq. and §§ 54, et seq.; > > > > 2. A declaration that LSAC is owning, maintaining > and/or > > operating lsac.org in a manner which discriminates against the blind and > > which fails to provide access for persons with disabilities as required > by > > law; > > > > 3. Plaintiffs' reasonable attorneys' fees and costs as > > authorized by California California Civil Code §§ 54, et seq., California > > Civil Code §§ 51, et seq., and pursuant to California Code of Civil > > Procedure § 1021.5. > > > > 4. Such other and further relief as the Court deems > just > > and proper. > > > > > > > > DATED: > > DISABILITY RIGHTS ADVOCATES > > > > > > > > > By: > > ____________________________ > > > > > > Laurence W. Paradis > > > > > > > > > > > > Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. > > > > LaBarre Law Offices P.C. > > 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 > > Denver, Colorado 80222 > > 303 504-5979 (voice) > > 303 757-3640 (fax) > > slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) > > www.labarrelaw.com (website) > > > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and > > privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may > not > > read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this > message > > in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or > > slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. > This > > message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic > > Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. > > _______________________________________________ > > blindlaw mailing list > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > blindlaw: > > > > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b75205%40gmail.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/bspiry%40comcast.n > et > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b75205%40gmail.com > From roddj12 at hotmail.com Tue Mar 10 17:56:41 2009 From: roddj12 at hotmail.com (Rod Alcidonis) Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 13:56:41 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. lsac complaint References: <001401c9a189$3fa59ee0$bef0dca0$@net> Message-ID: You are also violating copyright laws whether you send it to Scott or bill, so you know. Rod Alcidonis Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009. Roger Williams University School of Law 10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 Bristol, RI 02809 Cell: 718-704-4651 Home: 401-824-8685 ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Pepper" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 1:42 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. lsac complaint Well Bill the content is copyrighted by LSAC so I am not sure I can send this to you. Perhaps some on this list can give that advice. I laid it out properly. James On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 9:05 AM, Bill Spiry wrote: > I would appreciate receiving this as well. Thanks. > bspiry at comcast.net > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of James Pepper > Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 1:46 AM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. lsac complaint > > Scott: I laid out the first section of the LSAT to be accessible and I > can > send you the files if you would like to see it. Also I made the form that > they use accessible so the blind can fill out the test without assistance. > This works with JAWS and Window Eyes and a combination of Adobe's Read out > Loud and Microsoft Narrator. My process works and if you need references > at > NFB, AFB and the AAPD I can send them to you. > > It took a while to figure out how they made thier pdfs and I know where > they > are making their mistakes. I can correct this problem. These PDFs are > made > to work natively with JAWS and Adobe Reader and the other screen readers > without making any adjustments. They work with the default settings in > Adobe Reader. > > Also the forms can be digitally signed and saved and all that fancy stuff > that you expect with Adobe Acrobat Professional can be done with > Adobe Reader, versions 8 or 9 which is the free download from Adobe.com. > So > we can make the LSAT accessible to anyone with a PC running Windows XP Or > VIsta without any change of settings. This means the PC can be there for > the sighted and the blind, with equal access for all. > > Also since I labeled everything, it will be a lot quicker for you to fill > out this test! > > Sincerely, > > James G. Pepper > > > > On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 4:32 PM, Scott C. LaBarre > wrote: > > > Below I am sharing the complaint that we filed today in California > > Court. > > ************** > > LaurEnce W. paradis (California Bar No. 122336) > > > > Anna levine (California Bar No. 227881) > > > > Disability Rights Advocates > > > > 2001 Center Street, Third Floor > > > > Berkeley, California 94704 > > > > Telephone: (510) 665-8644 > > > > Facsimile: (510) 665-8511 > > > > TTY: (510) 665-8716 > > > > > > > > SCOTT LABARRE (to seek pro hac vice admission) > > > > LABARRE LAW OFFICES, P.C. > > > > 1660 S. Albion Street, Ste 918 > > > > Denver, Colo 80222 > > > > Telephone: (303) 504-5979 > > > > Fax: (303) 757-3640 > > > > > > > > DANIEL F. GOLDSTEIN (to seek pro hac vice admission) > > > > MEHGAN Sidhu (to seek pro hac vice admission) > > > > Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP > > > > 120 E. Baltimore St., Suite 1700 > > > > Baltimore, MD 21202 > > > > Telephone: (410) 962-1030 > > > > Fax: (410) 385-0869 > > > > > > > > SUPERIOR COURT OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA > > COUNTY OF ALAMEDA > > > > > > > > National Federation of the Blind, the National Federation of the > Blind > > of CALIFORNIA, and DEEPA GORAYA, > > > > > > > > Plaintiffs, > > > > v. > > > > LAW SCHOOL ADMISSION COUNCIL, INC., > > > > Defendant. > > > > > > > > Case No.: > > > > > > > > > > > > COMPLAINT FOR INJUNCTIVE AND DECLARATORY RELIEF FOR VIOLATIONS OF > THE > > CALIFORNIA DISABLED PERSONS ACT AND UNRUH CIVIL RIGHTS ACT > > > > > > > > > > INTRODUCTION > > > > Plaintiffs complain of Defendant and allege herein as follows: > > > > 1. This action, brought by the National Federation of the Blind, > > the National Federation of the Blind of California, and Deepa Goraya, > seeks > > to put an end to civil rights violations committed by defendant Law > School > > Admissions Council (hereafter "LSAC") against blind persons seeking to > take > > the LSAT exam and apply to law schools. Plaintiff Deepa Goraya, a blind > law > > school applicant in California, has been and is being denied equal > > access > to > > the accommodations, advantages, and facilities LSAC provides its > > non-disabled customers through http://www.lsac.org (hereafter "lsac.org" > > and "the website"). Plaintiffs National Federation of the Blind and the > > National Federation of the Blind of California have members who are > > similarly denied full and equal access to such accommodations, > > advantages > > and facilities. Lsac.org is currently the only place online where > > prospective law students can register for the Law School Admissions Test > > ("LSAT"), apply to law schools, and obtain official LSAT test > > preparation > > materials and information. Lsac.org contains multiple access barriers > that > > make it difficult if not impossible for blind law school applicants and > LSAT > > test takers to use the website and to obtain practice materials without > > sighted assistance. LSAC thus excludes the blind, including Ms. Goraya, > > from full and equal access to the accommodations, advantages, > > facilities, > > and privileges of lsac.org. > > > > JURISDICTION > > > > 2. This is a civil action under California's Disabled Persons > > Act > > (Cal. Civ. Code §§ 54, et seq.) and the Unruh Civil Rights Act (Cal. > > Civ. > > Code §§ 51, et seq.) and for declaratory relief. This Court has > > jurisdiction over the claims alleged herein pursuant to California Civil > > Code §§ 54, et seq. and California Civil Code §§ 51, et seq. and > California > > Code of Civil Procedure section 1060. > > > > 3. This Court has jurisdiction over LSAC because LSAC is a > > corporation authorized to do business in California and LSAC conducts > > substantial business in California. LSAC owns, maintains and operates > > its > > website, lsac.org, throughout California and in Alameda County. > > > > > > > > VENUE > > > > 4. Venue is proper in Alameda County because liability arises in > > part in Alameda County, where the National Federation of the Blind of > > California has its headquarters. LSAC has been and is committing the > acts > > alleged herein in Alameda County, has been and is violating the rights > > of > > patrons in Alameda County, and has been and is causing injury to patrons > in > > Alameda County. > > > > 5. Plaintiff Goraya is a California citizen and has experienced > > injury in California as a result of LSAC's inaccessible website and > practice > > materials. > > > > PARTIES > > > > 6. Plaintiff the National Federation of the Blind (hereafter > "NFB") > > is a national advocacy organization. The NFB, the oldest and largest > > national organization of blind persons, is a non-profit corporation duly > > organized under the laws of the District of Columbia with its principal > > place of business in Baltimore, Maryland. It has affiliates in all 50 > > states (including California) as well as Washington, D.C. and Puerto > Rico. > > The vast majority of the approximately 50,000 members are blind > > persons. > > The NFB is widely recognized by the public, Congress, executive > > agencies > of > > government and the courts as a collective and representative voice on > behalf > > of blind Americans and their families. The purpose of the NFB is to > promote > > the general welfare of the blind by (1) assisting the blind in their > efforts > > to integrate themselves into society on terms of equality and (2) > removing > > barriers and changing social attitudes, stereotypes and mistaken beliefs > > that sighted and blind persons hold concerning the limitations created > > by > > blindness resulting in the denial of opportunity to blind persons in > > virtually every sphere of life. The NFB and many of its members have > long > > been actively involved in promoting adaptive technology for the blind, > > so > > that blind persons can live and work independently in today's > > technology-dependent world. NFB members reside throughout the United > > States, including the state of California, and many of its members would > use > > the services of lsac.org if this website is made independently usable by > > the blind. > > > > 7. Plaintiff the National Federation of the Blind of California > > (hereafter "NFB of California") is a state affiliate of the National > > Federation of the Blind. NFB of California is a California corporation > and > > carries out NFB's objectives at the state level. It has local chapters > > throughout California, including Alameda County, and has its > > headquarters > in > > Fremont, California, in Alameda County. > > > > 8. Plaintiff Goraya is a member of the NFB and the NFB of > > California. She is blind and has been denied full and equal access to > the > > accommodations, advantages, facilities and privileges of lsac.org. > > > > 9. Defendant LSAC, is a non-profit corporation > > established to coordinate, facilitate, and enhance the law school > admissions > > process. LSAC owns, operates and/or maintains the website lsac.com, a > > public accommodation. Plaintiffs seek access to the services provided > > by > > LSAC in California through lsac.org. > > > > FACTS > > > > 10. Lsac.org is owned, controlled and/or operated by LSAC. > Lsac.org > > is a public accommodation that offers its visitors comprehensive > > services > > for applying to law school. The website functions as the official > > destination for guiding prospective law school applicants through the > > fundamental steps of applying to law school. Among its services, > lsac.orgoffers information about the LSAT and law school application > process, and > > extensive LSAT preparation materials and resources. Lsac.org also > > serves > as > > the exclusive online means for registering for the LSAT and applying to > > ABA-accredited law schools. > > > > 11. According to the website, lsac.org's online services enable > > prospective law students to do the following, among other things: > > > > a.. Register for the LSAT > > b.. Register for the LSDAS (Law School Data Assembly Service) > > c.. Purchase publications and test preparation materials > > d.. Have access to electronic applications for all ABA-approved law > > schools > > e.. Apply online to law schools > > f.. Register for law school forums > > g.. Have 24-hour file access > > 12. In addition to facilitating the LSAT and law school application > > processes, a significant portion of the lsac.org website is devoted to > > preparing students to take the LSAT. Among the services offered in that > > regard are online information guides that explain how to prepare for the > > LSAT and free, downloadable sample practice tests and test questions. > > Lsac.org also offers for a fee an online LSAT practice test tool and > > the > > opportunity to purchase more than 40 official LSAT practice tests. > > > > 13. While sighted visitors to lsac.org can easily obtain the benefits > and > > advantages offered by the website, blind individuals, including Ms. > Goraya, > > have been and are being denied access to lsac.org due to LSAC's failure > > and refusal to remove access barriers to lsac.org. Specifically, blind > > visitors to the website, including Ms. Goraya, cannot independently > > apply > to > > law school, register for the LSAT, or obtain in an accessible format the > > LSAT preparation materials and practice tests available through lsac.org > . > > > > 14. The blind access websites by using keyboards in conjunction > with > > screen-reading software. This software vocalizes or conveys to a > refreshable > > Braille display information that appears visually on a computer screen. > > Unless websites are designed to allow for use in this manner, blind > persons > > are unable to fully access the internet websites and the information, > > products and services contained therein. > > > > 15. There are well-established guidelines for making websites > > accessible to the blind. These guidelines have been in place for at > least > > several years and have been followed successfully by other public > > accommodations in making their online services accessible. The Web > > Accessibility Initiative (WAI), a project of the World Wide Web > Consortium, > > which is the leading standards organization for the Web, has developed > > guidelines for making information that is reached via the internet > > accessible. The federal government has also promulgated accessibility > > standards under Section 508 of the Rehabilitation Act. These guidelines > > have long been readily available via the internet so that any public > > accommodation could easily secure the necessary information. > > > > 16. Lsac.org contains a variety of access barriers that prevent > free > > and full use by blind persons using keyboards and screen reading > software. > > These barriers include but are not limited to: lack of or improperly > > labeled form controls; faulty keyboard navigation; and use of tables and > > charts that are not formatted for accessibility. Form controls allow > users > > to input data on online forms and applications. These controls must be > > coded and labeled to allow screen-access software to detect and vocalize > the > > requested information. Keyboard navigation refers to the ability to > > successfully navigate a website using keyboard commands, as opposed to > > requiring a mouse as the exclusive means for navigation of the site. > > Further, charts and tables must be formatted to work with screen-access > > software. Much of the lsac.org website, and in particular the online > law > > school application and LSAT registration sections of the website, lack > these > > fundamental accessibility components. As a result, blind visitors to > > the > > website cannot independently use those and other critical features. > > > > 17. Lsac.org's test preparation materials that are available on > > the > > website in Adobe Portable Document (PDF) format, are not properly > "tagged." > > This means that the headings, paragraphs, tables, image descriptions > > and > > form controls are not easily discernable to screen-reading software. As > a > > result, these materials are cumbersome, if not impossible, for a blind > > visitor to navigate. > > > > 18. Finally, lsac.org fails to offer LSAT practice tests, > available > > as part of its test preparation services, in formats accessible to the > > blind. While the sighted can easily use the website to obtain more than > 40 > > formerly administered LSAT practice tests, the website fails to offer > > the > > opportunity to purchase these practice materials in formats accessible > > to > > the blind, such as Braille or an accessible electronic format. > > > > 19. As a result of lsac.org's accessibility barriers, blind law > > school applicants, including Ms. Goraya, must go over extraordinary > hurdles > > to register and prepare for the LSAT and to apply to law school compared > to > > their sighted counterparts. After unsuccessfully attempting to use > > lsac.org independently to register for the LSAT and fill out her law > > school applications, for example, Plaintiff Goraya was forced to select > and > > rely upon a reader for over 50 hours simply to read aloud the content of > the > > website and complete her law school applications. Moreover, none of the > > LSAT practice materials, which include previously administered versions > of > > the test, were available to her in accessible electronic formats. > Lsac.org > > thus contains numerous access barriers which deny full and equal access > to > > Plaintiff, who would otherwise use the accommodations, advantages, and > > facilities of lsac.org. > > > > 20. On December 10, 2008, Plaintiff National Federation of the > Blind > > notified LSAC of the unlawful accessibility barriers on its website. > LSAC > > responded by setting up and then canceling a meeting with the NFB. On > > January 22, 2009, the NFB notified LSAC that it intended to pursue legal > > action against LSAC for the unlawful barriers on its website. > > > > FIRST CAUSE OF ACTION > > > > (Violation of Cal. Civ. Code §§ 54, et seq. - the Disabled Persons Act) > > > > 21. The allegations contained in the previous paragraphs are > > incorporated by reference. > > > > 22. The Disabled Persons Act ("DPA") requires that individuals > > with > > disabilities have "full and equal access, as other members of the > > general > > public, to accommodations, advantages, facilities, . . . and other > > places > to > > which the general public is invited, subject only to the conditions and > > limitations established by law, or state or federal regulation, and > > applicable alike to all persons." Cal. Civ. Code 54.1(a)(1). > > > > 23. Lsac.org, which is owned, operated and/or maintained by LSAC, > is > > an > > > > accommodation, advantage, facility and/or place to which the general > public > > is invited, as those terms are used in Cal. Civ. Code § 54.1(a)(1). > > > > 24. Defendant's conduct alleged herein violates the DPA, including > > Cal. Civ. Code § 54.1(a)(1), by denying the Plaintiffs full and equal > access > > to the accommodations, advantages and facilities of lsac.org. > > > > 25. As a result of Defendant's conduct, the NFB, the NFB of > > California, and Ms. Goraya are entitled to injunctive relief requiring > > Defendant to make lsac.org accessible to blind individuals, and to make > > the LSAT test practice materials offered to lsac.org patrons available > to > > blind people in an accessible format. > > > > SECOND CAUSE OF ACTION > > > > (Violation of Cal.Civ. Code §§ 51, et seq. - The Unruh Act) > > > > 26. The allegations contained in the previous paragraphs are > > incorporated by reference. > > > > 27. California's Unruh Act requires that individuals with > > disabilities have "full and equal accommodations, advantages, > > facilities, > > privileges or services in all business establishments of every kind > > whatsoever." Cal. Civ. Code § 51(b). > > > > 28. LSAC and Lsac.org are business establishments as that term is > > used in Cal. Civ. Code § 51(b) and lsac.org is an accommodation, > > advantage, facility, privilege and service of LSAC. > > > > 29. Defendant's conduct alleged herein violates the Unruh Act, > > including Cal. Civ. Code § 51(b), by denying Plaintiffs the full and > equal > > accommodations, advantages, facilities, privileges or services of LSAC > and > > lsac.org. > > > > 30. Defendant violated the Unruh Act intentionally and/or with > > deliberate indifference to the likelihood that it was violating the > rights > > of blind people and/or Defendant's violations were so intuitive or > obvious > > that noncompliance could not be other than intentional. > > > > 31. As a result of Defendant's conduct, the NFB, the NFB of > > California, and Ms. Goraya are entitled to injunctive relief requiring > > Defendant to make lsac.org accessible to blind individuals, and to make > > the LSAT test practice materials offered to lsac.org patrons available > to > > blind people in an accessible format. > > > > > > > > THIRD CAUSE OF ACTION > > > > (Declaratory Relief, Cal. Civ. Proc. § 1060 ) > > > > 32. The allegations contained in the previous paragraphs are > > incorporated by reference. > > > > 33. On information and belief, Defendants contend that they may > > lawfully deny Plaintiffs access to their website and its contents. > > Plaintiffs contend that lsac.org, which LSAC owns, operates, and/or > > controls, must provide blind patrons access to its website and website > > contents under California Civil Code §§ 54, et seq. and California Civil > > Code §§ 51, et seq., which prohibit discrimination against the blind. > > > > 34. A judicial declaration is necessary and appropriate at this > time > > in order that each of the parties may know their respective rights and > > duties and act accordingly. > > > > WHEREFORE, Plaintiffs request relief as set forth below. > > > > RELIEF REQUESTED > > > > WHEREFORE, Plaintiffs pray for judgment as follows: > > > > 1. An order enjoining LSAC from violating California > > Civil Code §§ 51, et seq. and §§ 54, et seq.; > > > > 2. A declaration that LSAC is owning, maintaining > and/or > > operating lsac.org in a manner which discriminates against the blind and > > which fails to provide access for persons with disabilities as required > by > > law; > > > > 3. Plaintiffs' reasonable attorneys' fees and costs > > as > > authorized by California California Civil Code §§ 54, et seq., > > California > > Civil Code §§ 51, et seq., and pursuant to California Code of Civil > > Procedure § 1021.5. > > > > 4. Such other and further relief as the Court deems > just > > and proper. > > > > > > > > DATED: > > DISABILITY RIGHTS ADVOCATES > > > > > > > > > By: > > ____________________________ > > > > > > Laurence W. Paradis > > > > > > > > > > > > Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. > > > > LaBarre Law Offices P.C. > > 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 > > Denver, Colorado 80222 > > 303 504-5979 (voice) > > 303 757-3640 (fax) > > slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) > > www.labarrelaw.com (website) > > > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and > > privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may > not > > read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this > message > > in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or > > slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. > This > > message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic > > Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. > > _______________________________________________ > > blindlaw mailing list > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > blindlaw: > > > > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b75205%40gmail.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/bspiry%40comcast.n > et > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b75205%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail.com From b75205 at gmail.com Tue Mar 10 18:45:10 2009 From: b75205 at gmail.com (James Pepper) Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 13:45:10 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. lsac complaint In-Reply-To: References: <001401c9a189$3fa59ee0$bef0dca0$@net> Message-ID: Well no wonder nothing becomes accessible. Stay with public domain documents then. Oh well. James On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 12:56 PM, Rod Alcidonis wrote: > You are also violating copyright laws whether you send it to Scott or bill, > so you know. > > Rod Alcidonis > Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009. > Roger Williams University School of Law > 10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 > Bristol, RI 02809 > Cell: 718-704-4651 > Home: 401-824-8685 > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Pepper" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 1:42 PM > > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. lsac complaint > > > Well Bill the content is copyrighted by LSAC so I am not sure I can send > this to you. Perhaps some on this list can give that advice. I laid it out > properly. > > James > > On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 9:05 AM, Bill Spiry wrote: > > I would appreciate receiving this as well. Thanks. >> bspiry at comcast.net >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf Of James Pepper >> Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 1:46 AM >> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. lsac complaint >> >> Scott: I laid out the first section of the LSAT to be accessible and I >> can >> send you the files if you would like to see it. Also I made the form that >> they use accessible so the blind can fill out the test without assistance. >> This works with JAWS and Window Eyes and a combination of Adobe's Read out >> Loud and Microsoft Narrator. My process works and if you need references >> at >> NFB, AFB and the AAPD I can send them to you. >> >> It took a while to figure out how they made thier pdfs and I know where >> they >> are making their mistakes. I can correct this problem. These PDFs are >> made >> to work natively with JAWS and Adobe Reader and the other screen readers >> without making any adjustments. They work with the default settings in >> Adobe Reader. >> >> Also the forms can be digitally signed and saved and all that fancy stuff >> that you expect with Adobe Acrobat Professional can be done with >> Adobe Reader, versions 8 or 9 which is the free download from Adobe.com. >> So >> we can make the LSAT accessible to anyone with a PC running Windows XP Or >> VIsta without any change of settings. This means the PC can be there for >> the sighted and the blind, with equal access for all. >> >> Also since I labeled everything, it will be a lot quicker for you to fill >> out this test! >> >> Sincerely, >> >> James G. Pepper >> >> >> >> On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 4:32 PM, Scott C. LaBarre >> wrote: >> >> > Below I am sharing the complaint that we filed today in California > >> Court. >> > ************** >> > LaurEnce W. paradis (California Bar No. 122336) >> > >> > Anna levine (California Bar No. 227881) >> > >> > Disability Rights Advocates >> > >> > 2001 Center Street, Third Floor >> > >> > Berkeley, California 94704 >> > >> > Telephone: (510) 665-8644 >> > >> > Facsimile: (510) 665-8511 >> > >> > TTY: (510) 665-8716 >> > >> > >> > >> > SCOTT LABARRE (to seek pro hac vice admission) >> > >> > LABARRE LAW OFFICES, P.C. >> > >> > 1660 S. Albion Street, Ste 918 >> > >> > Denver, Colo 80222 >> > >> > Telephone: (303) 504-5979 >> > >> > Fax: (303) 757-3640 >> > >> > >> > >> > DANIEL F. GOLDSTEIN (to seek pro hac vice admission) >> > >> > MEHGAN Sidhu (to seek pro hac vice admission) >> > >> > Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP >> > >> > 120 E. Baltimore St., Suite 1700 >> > >> > Baltimore, MD 21202 >> > >> > Telephone: (410) 962-1030 >> > >> > Fax: (410) 385-0869 >> > >> > >> > >> > SUPERIOR COURT OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA >> > COUNTY OF ALAMEDA >> > >> > >> > >> > National Federation of the Blind, the National Federation of the >> Blind >> > of CALIFORNIA, and DEEPA GORAYA, >> > >> > >> > >> > Plaintiffs, >> > >> > v. >> > >> > LAW SCHOOL ADMISSION COUNCIL, INC., >> > >> > Defendant. >> > >> > >> > >> > Case No.: >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > COMPLAINT FOR INJUNCTIVE AND DECLARATORY RELIEF FOR VIOLATIONS OF >> THE >> > CALIFORNIA DISABLED PERSONS ACT AND UNRUH CIVIL RIGHTS ACT >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > INTRODUCTION >> > >> > Plaintiffs complain of Defendant and allege herein as follows: >> > >> > 1. This action, brought by the National Federation of the Blind, >> > the National Federation of the Blind of California, and Deepa Goraya, >> seeks >> > to put an end to civil rights violations committed by defendant Law >> School >> > Admissions Council (hereafter "LSAC") against blind persons seeking to >> take >> > the LSAT exam and apply to law schools. Plaintiff Deepa Goraya, a blind >> law >> > school applicant in California, has been and is being denied equal > >> access >> to >> > the accommodations, advantages, and facilities LSAC provides its >> > non-disabled customers through http://www.lsac.org (hereafter "lsac.org >> " >> > and "the website"). Plaintiffs National Federation of the Blind and the >> > National Federation of the Blind of California have members who are >> > similarly denied full and equal access to such accommodations, > >> advantages >> > and facilities. Lsac.org is currently the only place online where >> > prospective law students can register for the Law School Admissions Test >> > ("LSAT"), apply to law schools, and obtain official LSAT test > >> preparation >> > materials and information. Lsac.org contains multiple access barriers >> that >> > make it difficult if not impossible for blind law school applicants and >> LSAT >> > test takers to use the website and to obtain practice materials without >> > sighted assistance. LSAC thus excludes the blind, including Ms. Goraya, >> > from full and equal access to the accommodations, advantages, > >> facilities, >> > and privileges of lsac.org. >> > >> > JURISDICTION >> > >> > 2. This is a civil action under California's Disabled Persons > >> Act >> > (Cal. Civ. Code §§ 54, et seq.) and the Unruh Civil Rights Act (Cal. > >> Civ. >> > Code §§ 51, et seq.) and for declaratory relief. This Court has >> > jurisdiction over the claims alleged herein pursuant to California Civil >> > Code §§ 54, et seq. and California Civil Code §§ 51, et seq. and >> California >> > Code of Civil Procedure section 1060. >> > >> > 3. This Court has jurisdiction over LSAC because LSAC is a >> > corporation authorized to do business in California and LSAC conducts >> > substantial business in California. LSAC owns, maintains and operates > >> its >> > website, lsac.org, throughout California and in Alameda County. >> > >> > >> > >> > VENUE >> > >> > 4. Venue is proper in Alameda County because liability arises in >> > part in Alameda County, where the National Federation of the Blind of >> > California has its headquarters. LSAC has been and is committing the >> acts >> > alleged herein in Alameda County, has been and is violating the rights > >> of >> > patrons in Alameda County, and has been and is causing injury to patrons >> in >> > Alameda County. >> > >> > 5. Plaintiff Goraya is a California citizen and has experienced >> > injury in California as a result of LSAC's inaccessible website and >> practice >> > materials. >> > >> > PARTIES >> > >> > 6. Plaintiff the National Federation of the Blind (hereafter >> "NFB") >> > is a national advocacy organization. The NFB, the oldest and largest >> > national organization of blind persons, is a non-profit corporation duly >> > organized under the laws of the District of Columbia with its principal >> > place of business in Baltimore, Maryland. It has affiliates in all 50 >> > states (including California) as well as Washington, D.C. and Puerto >> Rico. >> > The vast majority of the approximately 50,000 members are blind > >> persons. >> > The NFB is widely recognized by the public, Congress, executive > >> agencies >> of >> > government and the courts as a collective and representative voice on >> behalf >> > of blind Americans and their families. The purpose of the NFB is to >> promote >> > the general welfare of the blind by (1) assisting the blind in their >> efforts >> > to integrate themselves into society on terms of equality and (2) >> removing >> > barriers and changing social attitudes, stereotypes and mistaken beliefs >> > that sighted and blind persons hold concerning the limitations created > >> by >> > blindness resulting in the denial of opportunity to blind persons in >> > virtually every sphere of life. The NFB and many of its members have >> long >> > been actively involved in promoting adaptive technology for the blind, > >> so >> > that blind persons can live and work independently in today's >> > technology-dependent world. NFB members reside throughout the United >> > States, including the state of California, and many of its members would >> use >> > the services of lsac.org if this website is made independently usable >> by >> > the blind. >> > >> > 7. Plaintiff the National Federation of the Blind of California >> > (hereafter "NFB of California") is a state affiliate of the National >> > Federation of the Blind. NFB of California is a California corporation >> and >> > carries out NFB's objectives at the state level. It has local chapters >> > throughout California, including Alameda County, and has its > >> headquarters >> in >> > Fremont, California, in Alameda County. >> > >> > 8. Plaintiff Goraya is a member of the NFB and the NFB of >> > California. She is blind and has been denied full and equal access to >> the >> > accommodations, advantages, facilities and privileges of lsac.org. >> > >> > 9. Defendant LSAC, is a non-profit corporation >> > established to coordinate, facilitate, and enhance the law school >> admissions >> > process. LSAC owns, operates and/or maintains the website lsac.com, a >> > public accommodation. Plaintiffs seek access to the services provided > >> by >> > LSAC in California through lsac.org. >> > >> > FACTS >> > >> > 10. Lsac.org is owned, controlled and/or operated by LSAC. >> Lsac.org >> > is a public accommodation that offers its visitors comprehensive > >> services >> > for applying to law school. The website functions as the official >> > destination for guiding prospective law school applicants through the >> > fundamental steps of applying to law school. Among its services, >> lsac.orgoffers information about the LSAT and law school application >> process, and >> > extensive LSAT preparation materials and resources. Lsac.org also > >> serves >> as >> > the exclusive online means for registering for the LSAT and applying to >> > ABA-accredited law schools. >> > >> > 11. According to the website, lsac.org's online services enable >> > prospective law students to do the following, among other things: >> > >> > a.. Register for the LSAT >> > b.. Register for the LSDAS (Law School Data Assembly Service) >> > c.. Purchase publications and test preparation materials >> > d.. Have access to electronic applications for all ABA-approved law >> > schools >> > e.. Apply online to law schools >> > f.. Register for law school forums >> > g.. Have 24-hour file access >> > 12. In addition to facilitating the LSAT and law school application >> > processes, a significant portion of the lsac.org website is devoted to >> > preparing students to take the LSAT. Among the services offered in that >> > regard are online information guides that explain how to prepare for the >> > LSAT and free, downloadable sample practice tests and test questions. >> > Lsac.org also offers for a fee an online LSAT practice test tool and > >> the >> > opportunity to purchase more than 40 official LSAT practice tests. >> > >> > 13. While sighted visitors to lsac.org can easily obtain the benefits >> and >> > advantages offered by the website, blind individuals, including Ms. >> Goraya, >> > have been and are being denied access to lsac.org due to LSAC's failure >> > and refusal to remove access barriers to lsac.org. Specifically, blind >> > visitors to the website, including Ms. Goraya, cannot independently > >> apply >> to >> > law school, register for the LSAT, or obtain in an accessible format the >> > LSAT preparation materials and practice tests available through >> lsac.org >> . >> > >> > 14. The blind access websites by using keyboards in conjunction >> with >> > screen-reading software. This software vocalizes or conveys to a >> refreshable >> > Braille display information that appears visually on a computer screen. >> > Unless websites are designed to allow for use in this manner, blind >> persons >> > are unable to fully access the internet websites and the information, >> > products and services contained therein. >> > >> > 15. There are well-established guidelines for making websites >> > accessible to the blind. These guidelines have been in place for at >> least >> > several years and have been followed successfully by other public >> > accommodations in making their online services accessible. The Web >> > Accessibility Initiative (WAI), a project of the World Wide Web >> Consortium, >> > which is the leading standards organization for the Web, has developed >> > guidelines for making information that is reached via the internet >> > accessible. The federal government has also promulgated accessibility >> > standards under Section 508 of the Rehabilitation Act. These guidelines >> > have long been readily available via the internet so that any public >> > accommodation could easily secure the necessary information. >> > >> > 16. Lsac.org contains a variety of access barriers that prevent >> free >> > and full use by blind persons using keyboards and screen reading >> software. >> > These barriers include but are not limited to: lack of or improperly >> > labeled form controls; faulty keyboard navigation; and use of tables and >> > charts that are not formatted for accessibility. Form controls allow >> users >> > to input data on online forms and applications. These controls must be >> > coded and labeled to allow screen-access software to detect and vocalize >> the >> > requested information. Keyboard navigation refers to the ability to >> > successfully navigate a website using keyboard commands, as opposed to >> > requiring a mouse as the exclusive means for navigation of the site. >> > Further, charts and tables must be formatted to work with screen-access >> > software. Much of the lsac.org website, and in particular the online >> law >> > school application and LSAT registration sections of the website, lack >> these >> > fundamental accessibility components. As a result, blind visitors to > >> the >> > website cannot independently use those and other critical features. >> > >> > 17. Lsac.org's test preparation materials that are available on > >> the >> > website in Adobe Portable Document (PDF) format, are not properly >> "tagged." >> > This means that the headings, paragraphs, tables, image descriptions > >> and >> > form controls are not easily discernable to screen-reading software. As >> a >> > result, these materials are cumbersome, if not impossible, for a blind >> > visitor to navigate. >> > >> > 18. Finally, lsac.org fails to offer LSAT practice tests, >> available >> > as part of its test preparation services, in formats accessible to the >> > blind. While the sighted can easily use the website to obtain more than >> 40 >> > formerly administered LSAT practice tests, the website fails to offer > >> the >> > opportunity to purchase these practice materials in formats accessible > >> to >> > the blind, such as Braille or an accessible electronic format. >> > >> > 19. As a result of lsac.org's accessibility barriers, blind law >> > school applicants, including Ms. Goraya, must go over extraordinary >> hurdles >> > to register and prepare for the LSAT and to apply to law school compared >> to >> > their sighted counterparts. After unsuccessfully attempting to use >> > lsac.org independently to register for the LSAT and fill out her law >> > school applications, for example, Plaintiff Goraya was forced to select >> and >> > rely upon a reader for over 50 hours simply to read aloud the content of >> the >> > website and complete her law school applications. Moreover, none of the >> > LSAT practice materials, which include previously administered versions >> of >> > the test, were available to her in accessible electronic formats. >> Lsac.org >> > thus contains numerous access barriers which deny full and equal access >> to >> > Plaintiff, who would otherwise use the accommodations, advantages, and >> > facilities of lsac.org. >> > >> > 20. On December 10, 2008, Plaintiff National Federation of the >> Blind >> > notified LSAC of the unlawful accessibility barriers on its website. >> LSAC >> > responded by setting up and then canceling a meeting with the NFB. On >> > January 22, 2009, the NFB notified LSAC that it intended to pursue legal >> > action against LSAC for the unlawful barriers on its website. >> > >> > FIRST CAUSE OF ACTION >> > >> > (Violation of Cal. Civ. Code §§ 54, et seq. - the Disabled Persons Act) >> > >> > 21. The allegations contained in the previous paragraphs are >> > incorporated by reference. >> > >> > 22. The Disabled Persons Act ("DPA") requires that individuals > >> with >> > disabilities have "full and equal access, as other members of the > >> general >> > public, to accommodations, advantages, facilities, . . . and other > >> places >> to >> > which the general public is invited, subject only to the conditions and >> > limitations established by law, or state or federal regulation, and >> > applicable alike to all persons." Cal. Civ. Code 54.1(a)(1). >> > >> > 23. Lsac.org, which is owned, operated and/or maintained by LSAC, >> is >> > an >> > >> > accommodation, advantage, facility and/or place to which the general >> public >> > is invited, as those terms are used in Cal. Civ. Code § 54.1(a)(1). >> > >> > 24. Defendant's conduct alleged herein violates the DPA, including >> > Cal. Civ. Code § 54.1(a)(1), by denying the Plaintiffs full and equal >> access >> > to the accommodations, advantages and facilities of lsac.org. >> > >> > 25. As a result of Defendant's conduct, the NFB, the NFB of >> > California, and Ms. Goraya are entitled to injunctive relief requiring >> > Defendant to make lsac.org accessible to blind individuals, and to make >> > the LSAT test practice materials offered to lsac.org patrons available >> to >> > blind people in an accessible format. >> > >> > SECOND CAUSE OF ACTION >> > >> > (Violation of Cal.Civ. Code §§ 51, et seq. - The Unruh Act) >> > >> > 26. The allegations contained in the previous paragraphs are >> > incorporated by reference. >> > >> > 27. California's Unruh Act requires that individuals with >> > disabilities have "full and equal accommodations, advantages, > >> facilities, >> > privileges or services in all business establishments of every kind >> > whatsoever." Cal. Civ. Code § 51(b). >> > >> > 28. LSAC and Lsac.org are business establishments as that term is >> > used in Cal. Civ. Code § 51(b) and lsac.org is an accommodation, >> > advantage, facility, privilege and service of LSAC. >> > >> > 29. Defendant's conduct alleged herein violates the Unruh Act, >> > including Cal. Civ. Code § 51(b), by denying Plaintiffs the full and >> equal >> > accommodations, advantages, facilities, privileges or services of LSAC >> and >> > lsac.org. >> > >> > 30. Defendant violated the Unruh Act intentionally and/or with >> > deliberate indifference to the likelihood that it was violating the >> rights >> > of blind people and/or Defendant's violations were so intuitive or >> obvious >> > that noncompliance could not be other than intentional. >> > >> > 31. As a result of Defendant's conduct, the NFB, the NFB of >> > California, and Ms. Goraya are entitled to injunctive relief requiring >> > Defendant to make lsac.org accessible to blind individuals, and to make >> > the LSAT test practice materials offered to lsac.org patrons available >> to >> > blind people in an accessible format. >> > >> > >> > >> > THIRD CAUSE OF ACTION >> > >> > (Declaratory Relief, Cal. Civ. Proc. § 1060 ) >> > >> > 32. The allegations contained in the previous paragraphs are >> > incorporated by reference. >> > >> > 33. On information and belief, Defendants contend that they may >> > lawfully deny Plaintiffs access to their website and its contents. >> > Plaintiffs contend that lsac.org, which LSAC owns, operates, and/or >> > controls, must provide blind patrons access to its website and website >> > contents under California Civil Code §§ 54, et seq. and California Civil >> > Code §§ 51, et seq., which prohibit discrimination against the blind. >> > >> > 34. A judicial declaration is necessary and appropriate at this >> time >> > in order that each of the parties may know their respective rights and >> > duties and act accordingly. >> > >> > WHEREFORE, Plaintiffs request relief as set forth below. >> > >> > RELIEF REQUESTED >> > >> > WHEREFORE, Plaintiffs pray for judgment as follows: >> > >> > 1. An order enjoining LSAC from violating California >> > Civil Code §§ 51, et seq. and §§ 54, et seq.; >> > >> > 2. A declaration that LSAC is owning, maintaining >> and/or >> > operating lsac.org in a manner which discriminates against the blind >> and >> > which fails to provide access for persons with disabilities as required >> by >> > law; >> > >> > 3. Plaintiffs' reasonable attorneys' fees and costs > >> as >> > authorized by California California Civil Code §§ 54, et seq., > >> California >> > Civil Code §§ 51, et seq., and pursuant to California Code of Civil >> > Procedure § 1021.5. >> > >> > 4. Such other and further relief as the Court deems >> just >> > and proper. >> > >> > >> > >> > DATED: >> > DISABILITY RIGHTS ADVOCATES >> > >> > >> > >> > >> By: >> > ____________________________ >> > >> > >> > Laurence W. Paradis >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. >> > >> > LaBarre Law Offices P.C. >> > 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 >> > Denver, Colorado 80222 >> > 303 504-5979 (voice) >> > 303 757-3640 (fax) >> > slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) >> > www.labarrelaw.com (website) >> > >> > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and >> > privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may >> not >> > read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this >> message >> > in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or >> > slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. >> This >> > message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic >> > Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. >> > _______________________________________________ >> > blindlaw mailing list >> > blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> > blindlaw: >> > >> > >> >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b75205%40gmail.com >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/bspiry%40comcast.n >> et >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b75205%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b75205%40gmail.com > From clucas at disabilitypride.com Tue Mar 10 19:58:10 2009 From: clucas at disabilitypride.com (Carrie Ann Lucas) Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 13:58:10 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target In-Reply-To: References: <001401c9a189$3fa59ee0$bef0dca0$@net> Message-ID: <4E8742A18776454A880746AD18B966F5@colorado0f48f8> I think the final fairness hearing was supposed to happen yesterday. Does anyone know if it happened, and if so, what were the results? Carrie Ann Lucas Director Center for Rights of Parents with Disabilities Colorado Cross-Disability Coalition 655 Broadway, Suite 775 Denver, CO 80203 303.839.1775 (main and messages) 303.839.0015 (direct and TTY) 303.839.1782 (facsimile) 800.817.1435 (main and messages) 877.267.1621 (direct and TTY) www.ccdconline.org From AZNOR99 at aol.com Wed Mar 11 02:24:16 2009 From: AZNOR99 at aol.com (AZNOR99 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 22:24:16 EDT Subject: [blindlaw] independent contractor? Message-ID: When I was in private practice, I had a network of attorneys I'd call if I needed one to appear due to a conflict. Many lawyers have such informal networks, but others hire that sort of work out. For example, I had a friend who hired a private contractor to appear for all status hearings. I would suggest you start by making a list of all the lawyers you know in your area of practice and then getting in touch with them to let them you're available for court appearances. I also want to suggest _www.lawcrossing.com_ (http://www.lawcrossing.com) . It's not free, but it is quite good. You can set it up so it sends you job opportunities every day. It works like a search engine for legal jobs, and its success rate is high. Finally, you may want to consider joining a firm as Of Counsel. This is a lot cheaper for the firm because they don't necessarily have to pay you benefits, and most pay hourly wages instead of a salary. It's also really handy when there are client conflicts, because the Chinese wall is a lot easier to maintain. And malpractice insurance is much cheaper for Of Counsels than for employees. Good luck. Ronza In a message dated 3/10/2009 3:38:25 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, ckrugman at sbcglobal.net writes: Here in California there are agencies that hire temporary attorneys. Additionally, locally I have seen several ads on Craigslist looking for stand-in attorneys for court appearances and the like. I would check such places as Craigslist under "legal jobs" as well as general bar associations as well as publications for specialized bar associations, e.g. trial lawyers or as we know it in California Consumer Lawyers. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Shaw" To: Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 12:45 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] independent contractor? hmmm potential business idea a "temp agency" for lawyers, assigning independent ontractorsfor such tasks.... > Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 09:32:07 -0700 > From: m_b_gilmore at yahoo.com > To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org > Subject: [blindlaw] independent contractor? > > I am a member of a listserv for contract attorneys. Most of the e-mails > from that listserv concern document review; however, I read one the other > day about licensed attorneys working as independent contractors. (Examples > of this would be taking a deposition for another attorney or doing legal > research for another attorney or handling a court case for an attorney who > needs the help.) > > Anyway, I was wondering if any of you out there in D.C. or Northern > Virginia have done independent contractor work. That option appeals to > me. (Taking depositions appeals to me but I don't know how familiar one > would need to be with the case or if one just asks the questions the > attorney supplies to him.) > > Thanks in advance for your help. > > Mike > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/timandvickie%40hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ Express your personality in color! Preview and select themes for Hotmail®. http://www.windowslive-hotmail.com/LearnMore/personalize.aspx?ocid=TXT_MSGTX_W L_HM_express_032009#colortheme _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal .net _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/aznor99%40aol.com **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1219671244x1201345076/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fwww.freecreditreport.com%2Fpm%2Fdefault.aspx%3Fsc%3D668072%26hmpgID %3D62%26bcd%3DfebemailfooterNO62) From slabarre at labarrelaw.com Tue Mar 10 22:35:26 2009 From: slabarre at labarrelaw.com (Scott C. LaBarre) Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 16:35:26 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target References: <001401c9a189$3fa59ee0$bef0dca0$@net> <4E8742A18776454A880746AD18B966F5@colorado0f48f8> Message-ID: <5F60EFF2D5FD48A6A428F280C2AE8727@labarre> Yes. It had been postponed and was rescheduled to yesterday. Our local counsel attended the hearing and this afternoon Judge Patel issued an order granting final approval of the settlement and dismissing the claims. The only remaining matter is that we are waiting for an opinion and ruling on attorneys fees. Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. LaBarre Law Offices P.C. 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 Denver, Colorado 80222 303 504-5979 (voice) 303 757-3640 (fax) slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) www.labarrelaw.com (website) CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carrie Ann Lucas" To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 1:58 PM Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target >I think the final fairness hearing was supposed to happen yesterday. Does > anyone know if it happened, and if so, what were the results? > > Carrie Ann Lucas > Director Center for Rights of Parents with Disabilities > Colorado Cross-Disability Coalition > 655 Broadway, Suite 775 > Denver, CO 80203 > 303.839.1775 (main and messages) > 303.839.0015 (direct and TTY) > 303.839.1782 (facsimile) > 800.817.1435 (main and messages) > 877.267.1621 (direct and TTY) > www.ccdconline.org > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/slabarre%40labarrelaw.com > From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Wed Mar 11 12:21:08 2009 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 05:21:08 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] comments needed regarding policy for audible pedestrian signals Message-ID: <46F35C9C59EA4BEA85A215EF8960813E@spike> The City of Fresno is proposing the policy shown below to evaluate the installation of audible traffic signals. As this is outside my expertise I would appreciate any comments regarding this document. Please feel free to contact me off list if needed. Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal 1237 P Street Fresno ca 93721 559-266-9237 APS Policy-03-09-LP .pdf DRAFT ACCESSIBLE PEDESTRIAN SIGNALS (APS) INTERSECTION EVALUATION PROCEDURE BACKGROUND Accessible Pedestrian Signals (APS), also known as audible pedestrian signals, are devices that communicate information about pedestrian timing in nonvisual format such as audible tones, verbal messages, and/or vibrating surfaces. APS are used in conjunction with standard pedestrian activated traffic signals to provide the following information to pedestrians: list of 4 items  Existence of and location of the pedestrian pushbutton  Beginning of the pedestrian WALK interval  Direction of the crosswalk and location of the destination curb  Clearance signal interval list end They are used to assist blind and visually impaired persons and other persons with disabilities of all ages to cross at designated streets and intersections. PURPOSE The purpose of this evaluation policy is to set forth factors to be used by the City of Fresno’s Public Works Department, in cooperation with the City of Fresno’s Disability Advisory Commission, in developing a priority listing of signalized intersection candidates to be retrofitted with audible devices that will provide guidance for the blind community and visually impaired persons and other persons with disabilities of all ages to cross certain streets. POLICY It is the policy of the City Council that the retrofitting of existing traffic signals with APS shall be based on factors established herein and that such measurements and computations as may be required in determining priority rating of candidate locations shall be the responsibility of the Public Works Department. It should be noted that in special situations, an APS should not be installed because of the adverse affect it could have on pedestrian safety as a result of the overall traffic circulation pattern of an area, or unusual geometric conditions where an APS would not provide the safety benefits necessary for the blind or visually impaired individuals to cross a street. It should also be noted that some traffic signals cannot be retrofitted with APS without major costly modifications. Retrofitting of traffic signals with APS shall be subject to approval by the City Engineer. Important: APS are utilized to help blind and visually impaired travelers recognize when a WALK signal is operating in a given direction. An APS may enhance the safety of blind travelers in two ways: list of 1 items 1. Lessens the chance of a blind or visually impaired pedestrian misjudging when the walk phase is operating, thereby lessening the chance of accidentally crossing against a signal. list end list of 1 items 2. Helps blind and visually impaired pedestrians recognize immediately when the walk phase begins, permitting them to cross the street in a timely fashion, thereby lessening the chance of being in the intersection when the signal changes. list end However, it is important to recognize that the APS does not and cannot assure the blind and visually impaired pedestrians that there will be no potential traffic conflicts while crossing when the APS is operating. In particular, the blind and visually impaired pedestrians should be aware of at least four possible conflicts. list of 4 items 1. Vehicles may be still clearing the intersection when the APS comes on. 2. Vehicles may fail to stop for the red light. This is particularly common for motorists attempting to enter on a yellow light. 3. Motorists may stop and make a right turn on red while watching traffic on their left but may fail to notice pedestrians on their right. 4. Vehicles may have right and left turns on the same phase as the pedestrian. list end Because of these potential conflicts, it is important that the blind or visually impaired traveler exercise due caution for his or her well-being when crossing a street, whether or not it is equipped with APS. It is especially important that blind and visually impaired travelers be properly trained by certified orientation and mobility specialists in safe travel techniques on the public right-of-way. EVALUATION PROCEDURE (See attached “Evaluation Form.”) The following basic considerations and evaluation factors shall be utilized to determine whether a location is eligible to be a candidate for APS and to determine its relative position on the priority list. Evaluation and scoring of factors will be conducted by an evaluation team consisting of a certified orientation-mobility specialist, a visually impaired/blind traveler and a traffic engineer. Candidate locations shall be requested by the City of Fresno Disability Advisory Commission, its working groups, and constituent requests to the ADA Coordinator’s office. Candidate locations will be evaluated by means of the sample evaluation sheet attached. I. BASIC CONSIDERATIONS: APS normally will be considered for installation only if the following conditions are met: list of 5 items A. Intersections must be signalized. B. Signals must be susceptible to retrofitting. C. Signals should be equipped with pedestrian signal actuations. (See also section on “Signals without Pedestrian Actuations.”) D. Location must be suitable to installation of audible signals, in terms of surrounding land use, noise level and neighborhood acceptance. E. There must be a demonstrated need for the audible signals in the form of a request from an individual or group that would use the audible signal. list end II EVALUATION FACTORS The following factors shall be used to establish a priority listing for potential audible traffic signal candidates. Candidates will be arranged in priority order of those with the highest total points (100 points maximum) on top and then in descending order. The scoring of factors will be conducted by an evaluation team consistent of a mobility specialist, a visually impaired/blind traveler and a traffic engineer. If the request for an APS was made by a deaf blind individual, or by representative of an organization serving deaf blind pedestrians in order to improve access in their geographic area, the evaluation team may also include a deaf blind rater. The decision whether to include a deaf blind rater will be made by the City Engineer. A) Intersection Safety 1. Accident Records: Past pedestrian accident experience at the intersection will be used as an indication of potential safety performance. Points will be based on pedestrian accidents reported by the City of Fresno’s Police Department. table with 3 columns and 6 rows Pedestrian Accidents Period Points 1 4 years 1 2 4 years 2 3 4 years 3 4 4 years 4 5 or more 4 years 5 table end 2. Intersection Configuration: The number of approaches to an intersection and their geometric configuration (offset, skewed, etc.) affect the ability of the blind and visually impaired persons crossing the roadway. In particular, traffic at 3-leg intersections tends not to provide adequate audible clues for the blind to permit them to effectively judge the signal phase. table with 2 columns and 6 rows Configuration Points 4-leg right angle intersection 1 3-leg T-intersection 2 3 or 4-leg skewed intersection 3 4-leg offset intersection 4 Other complex or multiple leg intersections 5 table end Note: Intersections with 5 or more legs will require special design. 3. Intersection Signalization: Pre-timed intersections are the easiest for blind pedestrian because the phase interval is constant and can be observed over time. Vehicle actuated intersections are more difficult, because the pedestrian interval may be of different lengths or skipped all together. Split-phasing can provide confusing auditory information, as a traveler may interpret left-turning vehicles as a parallel traffic surge. table with 2 columns and 5 rows Signalization Points Pre-timed 0 Vehicle Actuated 2 Split Phasing 4 Exclusive Ped Phase (for future reference) 5 table end 4. Width of Crossing: Wider streets are more difficult for blind travelers to cross. If each leg of the intersection has a different width, points will be assigned on the basis of the widest street on which pedestrians are permitted to cross. Crossing width will be measured at the point pedestrians normally cross the street. Islands and medians will be included in the total crossing distance even if they are equipped with separate pedestrian signal actuators. These points will be apportioned based upon the greatest width of the crossing at the subject intersection. table with 2 columns and 7 rows Width of Crossing Points 40 feet or less 0 40 to 59 feet 1 60 to 79 feet 2 80 to 99 feet 3 100 -119 4 120 feet or more 5 table end 5. Vehicle Speed: The speed of approaching traffic reflects the ability of approaching traffic to stop for a pedestrian clearing the intersection as the lights change. Audible signals help blind pedestrians get a timely start at the beginning of the walk phase, thereby permitting clearing the intersection in a timely manner. Points are assigned on the basis of the 85 percentile speed on the fastest approach leg. More points are assigned on the basis of higher speeds. table with 2 columns and 6 rows Speed Range Points 0 – 25 mph 1 26 – 30 mph 2 31 – 35 mph 3 36 – 40 mph 4 41 mph or over 5 table end B. Crosswalk Characteristics These points will be apportioned based upon the highest-scoring characteristics of any of the crosswalks at the intersection. For example, if any of the crosswalks at an intersection have a median island protruding into an intersection, then the intersection will receive the two points allotted for that characteristic. list of 1 items (a) Location of Pedestrian Push Button. Pedestrian push buttons that are too far from the intersection can present difficulties for blind pedestrians. They may make it harder for an individual to use the button as a cue for alignment and/or to push the button and cross in the same cycle. list end table with 2 columns and 4 rows Location of Pedestrian Actuations Points One or more ped pushbuttons located > 10 ft from curb 1 One or more ped pushbuttons located > 5 ft from crosswalk extended 2 One or more ped pushbuttons out of alignment with direction of travel 2 table end list of 1 items (b) Median Islands Blind pedestrians have difficulties interpreting traffic clues at medians and islands. Efforts should be made to permit the blind to cross in one continuous movement. In such cases, signal timing should be extended to accommodate the full crossing. Divided streets with or without a pedestrian signal actuator in the median will be handled as a single crossing, with the width measured across the entire street. list end table with 2 columns and 2 rows Median Island Points Protruding into crosswalk, or cut through. 2 table end list of 1 items (c) Alignment of Crosswalk. A skewed crosswalk is one in which the direction of travel on the crosswalk differs from that on the approaching sidewalk. In this context, skew is not defined as the angle at which streets intersect. If a blind pedestrian walking a straight line from the approaching sidewalk is headed toward parallel traffic lanes, the crosswalk is skewed. If the pedestrian would end up deviating from the crosswalk, but would still arrive at the opposite corner, the crosswalk is not defined as skewed for this purpose. list end Skewed Crosswalk 4 (d) Distance to Alternative APS table with 2 columns and 6 rows Distance to Alternative APS Crosswalk Points 1 block 0 2 blocks 0 3 blocks 2 4 blocks 2 5 or more blocks 3 table end (e) Requests for APS New requests for APS will be recorded by the ADA Coordinator. Requestors will be asked to specify the reason for the request (e.g. proximity on a route to school or work), the difficulty they encounter at the intersection, and the time of day that presents the greatest difficulty. This information may be used by the Orientation and Mobility Evaluation team in assessing the intersection. table with 2 columns and 4 rows APS Requests Points 1 request 1 2 recent documented requests 2 3 or more recent, documented requests 3-4 table end B) Pedestrian Usage Blind pedestrians share many characteristics with the sighted population in that they go to public places, business, social, educational and medical facilities. At the same time they have special needs. For example, they may have a greater reliance on public transportation than sighted persons. Audible signals should be placed with the view of improving mobility of blind persons and making more facilities accessible to them. Proximity of signals to these facilities may assure a greater degree of utilization. list of 1 items 1. Proximity to facilities for people who are blind or visually impaired: This includes the Department of Rehabilitation, Social Security offices, Valley Center for the Blind and other similar facilities. Special consideration may be given to senior citizens complexes or public housing facilities that have one or more blind or visually impaired persons in residence. Points are assigned on the basis of blocks or distance (1 block equals 400 feet) from proposed APS site to subject facility. The closer the two are, the more points are assigned. list end table with 2 columns and 6 rows Proximity Points 4 to 6 blocks 2 3 blocks 4 2 blocks 6 1 block 8 At subject facility 10 table end 2. Proximity to key facilities utilized by all pedestrians (blind and sighted.): This includes medical, educational, social, recreational, shopping, commercial, business, public and governmental facilities. Points are assigned on the basis of blocks or distance (1 block equals 400 feet) from proposed APS site to subject facility. In case of multiple facilities, points will be assigned on the basis of the closest facility. table with 2 columns and 6 rows Proximity Points 4 to 6 blocks 1 3 blocks 2 2 blocks 3 1 block 4 At subject facility 5 table end 3. Access to public transit: Because blind and visually impaired persons rely heavily upon public transportation (bus or trolley), special consideration will be given to those proposed APS sites that have heavy general use, serves any of the facilities indicated above (Ref. B-1 and B-2), or serves as a transfer point and serves 2 or more transit routes within a one-block walking distance. list of 1 items a) Number of transit stops and/or transit routes within one block of proposed audible signal site. list end table with 2 columns and 6 rows Number of Routes and Stops Points 1 – 2 routes and 1 stop 1 3 or more routes and 1 stop 2 1 – 2 routes and 2 stops 3 3 or more routes and 2 stops 4 2 or more routes and more than 2 stops 5 table end b) Passenger usage is based upon the total passengers boarding and debarking each day at a transit stop or transfer point within a one-block walking distance. table with 2 columns and 7 rows Passengers Boarding and Debarking Each Day Points 0 – 49 0 50-149 1 150-249 2 250-499 3 500-999 4 1,000 and over 5 table end C) Traffic Conditions Vehicle volumes, traffic distribution, traffic congestion and flow characteristics may assist or impede the blind traveler in crossing an intersection. Blind pedestrians can function best when crossing signalized intersections that are at right angles with a moderate but steady flow of traffic through the intersection on each leg and with a minimum of turning movements (right or left turns). Traffic that stops on each leg during each signal cycle is particularly helpful. Traffic that is either light, or very heavy, or erratic in its flow makes it difficult for the blind traveler to pick up audible clues as to whether the light is red or green. In such cases, audible signals will assist in determining when it is possible to cross the street. Points may be assigned by the evaluation team based upon their perception of the relative importance of each of these factors (which are not necessarily dependent upon the total average daily traffic). Candidate locations may score up to a maximum of 5 points for each of the following factors depending upon overall traffic distribution. table with 3 columns and 6 rows Heavy Traffic Flow Vehicles per hour Points Approach traffic on all legs is in excess of 2,000 vehicles per hour during any peak hour. 2,000 – 2,999 1 Approach traffic on all legs is in excess of 2,000 vehicles per hour during any peak hour. 3,000 – 3,999 2 Approach traffic on all legs is in excess of 2,000 vehicles per hour during any peak hour. 4,000 – 4,999 3 Approach traffic on all legs is in excess of 2,000 vehicles per hour during any peak hour. 5,000 – 5,999 4 Approach traffic on all legs is in excess of 2,000 vehicles per hour during any peak hour. 6,000 and over 5 table end table with 3 columns and 7 rows Off Peak Traffic Presence Direction 1 Points At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. Constant (≥ 90%) 0 At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. Heavy (70-80%) 1 At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. Moderate (50-60%) 2 At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. Light (30-40%) 3 At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. Occasional (<30%) 4 At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. None (no through lanes to create surge noise. 5 table end table with 3 columns and 7 rows Off Peak Traffic Presence Direction 2 Points At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. Constant (≥ 90%) 0 At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. Heavy (70-80%) 1 At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. Moderate (50-60%) 2 At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. Light (30-40%) 3 At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. Occasional (<30%) 4 At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. None (no through lanes to create surge noise. 5 table end E.) Mobility Evaluation Each intersection being considered for audible signals should be evaluated by a certified orientation and mobility specialist. Based on the judgment of the O-M specialist and the evaluation team, additional points may be assigned based on observed or special conditions not adequately covered by any of the previous factors. This may include a heavy right-turn volume, right-turn island, right-turn signals, limited cone of “visibility”, etc. Points Mobility and miscellaneous factors 0-15 Signals without Pedestrian Actuations Signalized intersections without pedestrian actuations may be considered for evaluation under this priority system, provided the following conditions are met: list of 3 items 1. There must be a demonstrated problem or need that can be alleviated by the installation of an audible signal in the form of a request from an individual or group that would use the audible signal. 2. The evaluation team must unanimously concur with the need. 3. Appropriate pedestrian actuation buttons and circuits must be provided as part of the APS installation. list end Accessible Signals at New Signal Installations Accessible signals will be considered for new signal installation if it is determined that installation is warranted by the criteria established above. Public Notice of Installation of Accessible Signals The City recognizes that the installation of an APS may be of interest to the community, especially residents in the immediate vicinity of the candidate intersection. In addition, research has indicated that APS are more effectively used by blind and visually impaired pedestrians if they have notice of its location and a basic understanding of the type of signal installed. Accordingly, the Director of Public Works will provide a notice to neighbors in a 350 feet radius from the intersection of the proposed installation of an APS at that site, and invite concerned citizens to contact him in writing. In addition, the Department of Public Works will issue press releases and informing the public and organizations serving people with disabilities, especially visual impairments, of type and location of proposed and installed APS. From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Wed Mar 11 13:00:00 2009 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 06:00:00 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. lsac complaint In-Reply-To: References: <001401c9a189$3fa59ee0$bef0dca0$@net> Message-ID: <0E0A546A5C8448378C8D855BF758CD0B@spike> we can always engage in acts of civil disobedience and disobey copyright laws. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Pepper" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 11:45 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. lsac complaint Well no wonder nothing becomes accessible. Stay with public domain documents then. Oh well. James On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 12:56 PM, Rod Alcidonis wrote: > You are also violating copyright laws whether you send it to Scott or > bill, > so you know. > > Rod Alcidonis > Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009. > Roger Williams University School of Law > 10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 > Bristol, RI 02809 > Cell: 718-704-4651 > Home: 401-824-8685 > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Pepper" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 1:42 PM > > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. lsac complaint > > > Well Bill the content is copyrighted by LSAC so I am not sure I can send > this to you. Perhaps some on this list can give that advice. I laid it out > properly. > > James > > On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 9:05 AM, Bill Spiry wrote: > > I would appreciate receiving this as well. Thanks. >> bspiry at comcast.net >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf Of James Pepper >> Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 1:46 AM >> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. lsac complaint >> >> Scott: I laid out the first section of the LSAT to be accessible and I >> can >> send you the files if you would like to see it. Also I made the form that >> they use accessible so the blind can fill out the test without >> assistance. >> This works with JAWS and Window Eyes and a combination of Adobe's Read >> out >> Loud and Microsoft Narrator. My process works and if you need references >> at >> NFB, AFB and the AAPD I can send them to you. >> >> It took a while to figure out how they made thier pdfs and I know where >> they >> are making their mistakes. I can correct this problem. These PDFs are >> made >> to work natively with JAWS and Adobe Reader and the other screen readers >> without making any adjustments. They work with the default settings in >> Adobe Reader. >> >> Also the forms can be digitally signed and saved and all that fancy stuff >> that you expect with Adobe Acrobat Professional can be done with >> Adobe Reader, versions 8 or 9 which is the free download from Adobe.com. >> So >> we can make the LSAT accessible to anyone with a PC running Windows XP Or >> VIsta without any change of settings. This means the PC can be there for >> the sighted and the blind, with equal access for all. >> >> Also since I labeled everything, it will be a lot quicker for you to fill >> out this test! >> >> Sincerely, >> >> James G. Pepper >> >> >> >> On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 4:32 PM, Scott C. LaBarre >> wrote: >> >> > Below I am sharing the complaint that we filed today in California > >> Court. >> > ************** >> > LaurEnce W. paradis (California Bar No. 122336) >> > >> > Anna levine (California Bar No. 227881) >> > >> > Disability Rights Advocates >> > >> > 2001 Center Street, Third Floor >> > >> > Berkeley, California 94704 >> > >> > Telephone: (510) 665-8644 >> > >> > Facsimile: (510) 665-8511 >> > >> > TTY: (510) 665-8716 >> > >> > >> > >> > SCOTT LABARRE (to seek pro hac vice admission) >> > >> > LABARRE LAW OFFICES, P.C. >> > >> > 1660 S. Albion Street, Ste 918 >> > >> > Denver, Colo 80222 >> > >> > Telephone: (303) 504-5979 >> > >> > Fax: (303) 757-3640 >> > >> > >> > >> > DANIEL F. GOLDSTEIN (to seek pro hac vice admission) >> > >> > MEHGAN Sidhu (to seek pro hac vice admission) >> > >> > Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP >> > >> > 120 E. Baltimore St., Suite 1700 >> > >> > Baltimore, MD 21202 >> > >> > Telephone: (410) 962-1030 >> > >> > Fax: (410) 385-0869 >> > >> > >> > >> > SUPERIOR COURT OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA >> > COUNTY OF ALAMEDA >> > >> > >> > >> > National Federation of the Blind, the National Federation of the >> Blind >> > of CALIFORNIA, and DEEPA GORAYA, >> > >> > >> > >> > Plaintiffs, >> > >> > v. >> > >> > LAW SCHOOL ADMISSION COUNCIL, INC., >> > >> > Defendant. >> > >> > >> > >> > Case No.: >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > COMPLAINT FOR INJUNCTIVE AND DECLARATORY RELIEF FOR VIOLATIONS OF >> THE >> > CALIFORNIA DISABLED PERSONS ACT AND UNRUH CIVIL RIGHTS ACT >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > INTRODUCTION >> > >> > Plaintiffs complain of Defendant and allege herein as follows: >> > >> > 1. This action, brought by the National Federation of the >> > Blind, >> > the National Federation of the Blind of California, and Deepa Goraya, >> seeks >> > to put an end to civil rights violations committed by defendant Law >> School >> > Admissions Council (hereafter "LSAC") against blind persons seeking to >> take >> > the LSAT exam and apply to law schools. Plaintiff Deepa Goraya, a >> > blind >> law >> > school applicant in California, has been and is being denied equal > >> access >> to >> > the accommodations, advantages, and facilities LSAC provides its >> > non-disabled customers through http://www.lsac.org (hereafter "lsac.org >> " >> > and "the website"). Plaintiffs National Federation of the Blind and >> > the >> > National Federation of the Blind of California have members who are >> > similarly denied full and equal access to such accommodations, > >> advantages >> > and facilities. Lsac.org is currently the only place online where >> > prospective law students can register for the Law School Admissions >> > Test >> > ("LSAT"), apply to law schools, and obtain official LSAT test > >> preparation >> > materials and information. Lsac.org contains multiple access barriers >> that >> > make it difficult if not impossible for blind law school applicants and >> LSAT >> > test takers to use the website and to obtain practice materials without >> > sighted assistance. LSAC thus excludes the blind, including Ms. >> > Goraya, >> > from full and equal access to the accommodations, advantages, > >> facilities, >> > and privileges of lsac.org. >> > >> > JURISDICTION >> > >> > 2. This is a civil action under California's Disabled Persons > >> Act >> > (Cal. Civ. Code §§ 54, et seq.) and the Unruh Civil Rights Act (Cal. > >> Civ. >> > Code §§ 51, et seq.) and for declaratory relief. This Court has >> > jurisdiction over the claims alleged herein pursuant to California >> > Civil >> > Code §§ 54, et seq. and California Civil Code §§ 51, et seq. and >> California >> > Code of Civil Procedure section 1060. >> > >> > 3. This Court has jurisdiction over LSAC because LSAC is a >> > corporation authorized to do business in California and LSAC conducts >> > substantial business in California. LSAC owns, maintains and operates > >> its >> > website, lsac.org, throughout California and in Alameda County. >> > >> > >> > >> > VENUE >> > >> > 4. Venue is proper in Alameda County because liability arises >> > in >> > part in Alameda County, where the National Federation of the Blind of >> > California has its headquarters. LSAC has been and is committing the >> acts >> > alleged herein in Alameda County, has been and is violating the rights >> > > >> of >> > patrons in Alameda County, and has been and is causing injury to >> > patrons >> in >> > Alameda County. >> > >> > 5. Plaintiff Goraya is a California citizen and has experienced >> > injury in California as a result of LSAC's inaccessible website and >> practice >> > materials. >> > >> > PARTIES >> > >> > 6. Plaintiff the National Federation of the Blind (hereafter >> "NFB") >> > is a national advocacy organization. The NFB, the oldest and largest >> > national organization of blind persons, is a non-profit corporation >> > duly >> > organized under the laws of the District of Columbia with its principal >> > place of business in Baltimore, Maryland. It has affiliates in all 50 >> > states (including California) as well as Washington, D.C. and Puerto >> Rico. >> > The vast majority of the approximately 50,000 members are blind > >> persons. >> > The NFB is widely recognized by the public, Congress, executive > >> agencies >> of >> > government and the courts as a collective and representative voice on >> behalf >> > of blind Americans and their families. The purpose of the NFB is to >> promote >> > the general welfare of the blind by (1) assisting the blind in their >> efforts >> > to integrate themselves into society on terms of equality and (2) >> removing >> > barriers and changing social attitudes, stereotypes and mistaken >> > beliefs >> > that sighted and blind persons hold concerning the limitations created >> > > >> by >> > blindness resulting in the denial of opportunity to blind persons in >> > virtually every sphere of life. The NFB and many of its members have >> long >> > been actively involved in promoting adaptive technology for the blind, >> > > >> so >> > that blind persons can live and work independently in today's >> > technology-dependent world. NFB members reside throughout the United >> > States, including the state of California, and many of its members >> > would >> use >> > the services of lsac.org if this website is made independently usable >> by >> > the blind. >> > >> > 7. Plaintiff the National Federation of the Blind of California >> > (hereafter "NFB of California") is a state affiliate of the National >> > Federation of the Blind. NFB of California is a California corporation >> and >> > carries out NFB's objectives at the state level. It has local chapters >> > throughout California, including Alameda County, and has its > >> headquarters >> in >> > Fremont, California, in Alameda County. >> > >> > 8. Plaintiff Goraya is a member of the NFB and the NFB of >> > California. She is blind and has been denied full and equal access to >> the >> > accommodations, advantages, facilities and privileges of lsac.org. >> > >> > 9. Defendant LSAC, is a non-profit corporation >> > established to coordinate, facilitate, and enhance the law school >> admissions >> > process. LSAC owns, operates and/or maintains the website lsac.com, a >> > public accommodation. Plaintiffs seek access to the services provided >> > > >> by >> > LSAC in California through lsac.org. >> > >> > FACTS >> > >> > 10. Lsac.org is owned, controlled and/or operated by LSAC. >> Lsac.org >> > is a public accommodation that offers its visitors comprehensive > >> services >> > for applying to law school. The website functions as the official >> > destination for guiding prospective law school applicants through the >> > fundamental steps of applying to law school. Among its services, >> lsac.orgoffers information about the LSAT and law school application >> process, and >> > extensive LSAT preparation materials and resources. Lsac.org also > >> serves >> as >> > the exclusive online means for registering for the LSAT and applying to >> > ABA-accredited law schools. >> > >> > 11. According to the website, lsac.org's online services enable >> > prospective law students to do the following, among other things: >> > >> > a.. Register for the LSAT >> > b.. Register for the LSDAS (Law School Data Assembly Service) >> > c.. Purchase publications and test preparation materials >> > d.. Have access to electronic applications for all ABA-approved law >> > schools >> > e.. Apply online to law schools >> > f.. Register for law school forums >> > g.. Have 24-hour file access >> > 12. In addition to facilitating the LSAT and law school application >> > processes, a significant portion of the lsac.org website is devoted to >> > preparing students to take the LSAT. Among the services offered in >> > that >> > regard are online information guides that explain how to prepare for >> > the >> > LSAT and free, downloadable sample practice tests and test questions. >> > Lsac.org also offers for a fee an online LSAT practice test tool and > >> the >> > opportunity to purchase more than 40 official LSAT practice tests. >> > >> > 13. While sighted visitors to lsac.org can easily obtain the benefits >> and >> > advantages offered by the website, blind individuals, including Ms. >> Goraya, >> > have been and are being denied access to lsac.org due to LSAC's failure >> > and refusal to remove access barriers to lsac.org. Specifically, blind >> > visitors to the website, including Ms. Goraya, cannot independently > >> apply >> to >> > law school, register for the LSAT, or obtain in an accessible format >> > the >> > LSAT preparation materials and practice tests available through >> lsac.org >> . >> > >> > 14. The blind access websites by using keyboards in conjunction >> with >> > screen-reading software. This software vocalizes or conveys to a >> refreshable >> > Braille display information that appears visually on a computer screen. >> > Unless websites are designed to allow for use in this manner, blind >> persons >> > are unable to fully access the internet websites and the information, >> > products and services contained therein. >> > >> > 15. There are well-established guidelines for making websites >> > accessible to the blind. These guidelines have been in place for at >> least >> > several years and have been followed successfully by other public >> > accommodations in making their online services accessible. The Web >> > Accessibility Initiative (WAI), a project of the World Wide Web >> Consortium, >> > which is the leading standards organization for the Web, has developed >> > guidelines for making information that is reached via the internet >> > accessible. The federal government has also promulgated accessibility >> > standards under Section 508 of the Rehabilitation Act. These >> > guidelines >> > have long been readily available via the internet so that any public >> > accommodation could easily secure the necessary information. >> > >> > 16. Lsac.org contains a variety of access barriers that prevent >> free >> > and full use by blind persons using keyboards and screen reading >> software. >> > These barriers include but are not limited to: lack of or improperly >> > labeled form controls; faulty keyboard navigation; and use of tables >> > and >> > charts that are not formatted for accessibility. Form controls allow >> users >> > to input data on online forms and applications. These controls must be >> > coded and labeled to allow screen-access software to detect and >> > vocalize >> the >> > requested information. Keyboard navigation refers to the ability to >> > successfully navigate a website using keyboard commands, as opposed to >> > requiring a mouse as the exclusive means for navigation of the site. >> > Further, charts and tables must be formatted to work with >> > screen-access >> > software. Much of the lsac.org website, and in particular the online >> law >> > school application and LSAT registration sections of the website, lack >> these >> > fundamental accessibility components. As a result, blind visitors to > >> the >> > website cannot independently use those and other critical features. >> > >> > 17. Lsac.org's test preparation materials that are available on > >> the >> > website in Adobe Portable Document (PDF) format, are not properly >> "tagged." >> > This means that the headings, paragraphs, tables, image descriptions > >> and >> > form controls are not easily discernable to screen-reading software. >> > As >> a >> > result, these materials are cumbersome, if not impossible, for a blind >> > visitor to navigate. >> > >> > 18. Finally, lsac.org fails to offer LSAT practice tests, >> available >> > as part of its test preparation services, in formats accessible to the >> > blind. While the sighted can easily use the website to obtain more >> > than >> 40 >> > formerly administered LSAT practice tests, the website fails to offer > >> the >> > opportunity to purchase these practice materials in formats accessible >> > > >> to >> > the blind, such as Braille or an accessible electronic format. >> > >> > 19. As a result of lsac.org's accessibility barriers, blind law >> > school applicants, including Ms. Goraya, must go over extraordinary >> hurdles >> > to register and prepare for the LSAT and to apply to law school >> > compared >> to >> > their sighted counterparts. After unsuccessfully attempting to use >> > lsac.org independently to register for the LSAT and fill out her law >> > school applications, for example, Plaintiff Goraya was forced to select >> and >> > rely upon a reader for over 50 hours simply to read aloud the content >> > of >> the >> > website and complete her law school applications. Moreover, none of >> > the >> > LSAT practice materials, which include previously administered versions >> of >> > the test, were available to her in accessible electronic formats. >> Lsac.org >> > thus contains numerous access barriers which deny full and equal access >> to >> > Plaintiff, who would otherwise use the accommodations, advantages, and >> > facilities of lsac.org. >> > >> > 20. On December 10, 2008, Plaintiff National Federation of the >> Blind >> > notified LSAC of the unlawful accessibility barriers on its website. >> LSAC >> > responded by setting up and then canceling a meeting with the NFB. On >> > January 22, 2009, the NFB notified LSAC that it intended to pursue >> > legal >> > action against LSAC for the unlawful barriers on its website. >> > >> > FIRST CAUSE OF ACTION >> > >> > (Violation of Cal. Civ. Code §§ 54, et seq. - the Disabled Persons Act) >> > >> > 21. The allegations contained in the previous paragraphs are >> > incorporated by reference. >> > >> > 22. The Disabled Persons Act ("DPA") requires that individuals > >> with >> > disabilities have "full and equal access, as other members of the > >> general >> > public, to accommodations, advantages, facilities, . . . and other > >> places >> to >> > which the general public is invited, subject only to the conditions and >> > limitations established by law, or state or federal regulation, and >> > applicable alike to all persons." Cal. Civ. Code 54.1(a)(1). >> > >> > 23. Lsac.org, which is owned, operated and/or maintained by LSAC, >> is >> > an >> > >> > accommodation, advantage, facility and/or place to which the general >> public >> > is invited, as those terms are used in Cal. Civ. Code § 54.1(a)(1). >> > >> > 24. Defendant's conduct alleged herein violates the DPA, >> > including >> > Cal. Civ. Code § 54.1(a)(1), by denying the Plaintiffs full and equal >> access >> > to the accommodations, advantages and facilities of lsac.org. >> > >> > 25. As a result of Defendant's conduct, the NFB, the NFB of >> > California, and Ms. Goraya are entitled to injunctive relief requiring >> > Defendant to make lsac.org accessible to blind individuals, and to make >> > the LSAT test practice materials offered to lsac.org patrons available >> to >> > blind people in an accessible format. >> > >> > SECOND CAUSE OF ACTION >> > >> > (Violation of Cal.Civ. Code §§ 51, et seq. - The Unruh Act) >> > >> > 26. The allegations contained in the previous paragraphs are >> > incorporated by reference. >> > >> > 27. California's Unruh Act requires that individuals with >> > disabilities have "full and equal accommodations, advantages, > >> facilities, >> > privileges or services in all business establishments of every kind >> > whatsoever." Cal. Civ. Code § 51(b). >> > >> > 28. LSAC and Lsac.org are business establishments as that term is >> > used in Cal. Civ. Code § 51(b) and lsac.org is an accommodation, >> > advantage, facility, privilege and service of LSAC. >> > >> > 29. Defendant's conduct alleged herein violates the Unruh Act, >> > including Cal. Civ. Code § 51(b), by denying Plaintiffs the full and >> equal >> > accommodations, advantages, facilities, privileges or services of LSAC >> and >> > lsac.org. >> > >> > 30. Defendant violated the Unruh Act intentionally and/or with >> > deliberate indifference to the likelihood that it was violating the >> rights >> > of blind people and/or Defendant's violations were so intuitive or >> obvious >> > that noncompliance could not be other than intentional. >> > >> > 31. As a result of Defendant's conduct, the NFB, the NFB of >> > California, and Ms. Goraya are entitled to injunctive relief requiring >> > Defendant to make lsac.org accessible to blind individuals, and to make >> > the LSAT test practice materials offered to lsac.org patrons available >> to >> > blind people in an accessible format. >> > >> > >> > >> > THIRD CAUSE OF ACTION >> > >> > (Declaratory Relief, Cal. Civ. Proc. § 1060 ) >> > >> > 32. The allegations contained in the previous paragraphs are >> > incorporated by reference. >> > >> > 33. On information and belief, Defendants contend that they may >> > lawfully deny Plaintiffs access to their website and its contents. >> > Plaintiffs contend that lsac.org, which LSAC owns, operates, and/or >> > controls, must provide blind patrons access to its website and website >> > contents under California Civil Code §§ 54, et seq. and California >> > Civil >> > Code §§ 51, et seq., which prohibit discrimination against the blind. >> > >> > 34. A judicial declaration is necessary and appropriate at this >> time >> > in order that each of the parties may know their respective rights and >> > duties and act accordingly. >> > >> > WHEREFORE, Plaintiffs request relief as set forth below. >> > >> > RELIEF REQUESTED >> > >> > WHEREFORE, Plaintiffs pray for judgment as follows: >> > >> > 1. An order enjoining LSAC from violating California >> > Civil Code §§ 51, et seq. and §§ 54, et seq.; >> > >> > 2. A declaration that LSAC is owning, maintaining >> and/or >> > operating lsac.org in a manner which discriminates against the blind >> and >> > which fails to provide access for persons with disabilities as required >> by >> > law; >> > >> > 3. Plaintiffs' reasonable attorneys' fees and costs >> > > >> as >> > authorized by California California Civil Code §§ 54, et seq., > >> California >> > Civil Code §§ 51, et seq., and pursuant to California Code of Civil >> > Procedure § 1021.5. >> > >> > 4. Such other and further relief as the Court deems >> just >> > and proper. >> > >> > >> > >> > DATED: >> > DISABILITY RIGHTS ADVOCATES >> > >> > >> > >> > >> By: >> > ____________________________ >> > >> > >> > Laurence W. Paradis >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. >> > >> > LaBarre Law Offices P.C. >> > 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 >> > Denver, Colorado 80222 >> > 303 504-5979 (voice) >> > 303 757-3640 (fax) >> > slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) >> > www.labarrelaw.com (website) >> > >> > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and >> > privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you >> > may >> not >> > read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this >> message >> > in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or >> > slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. >> This >> > message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic >> > Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. >> > _______________________________________________ >> > blindlaw mailing list >> > blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> > blindlaw: >> > >> > >> >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b75205%40gmail.com >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/bspiry%40comcast.n >> et >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b75205%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b75205%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net From Tim.Ford at cdph.ca.gov Wed Mar 11 14:31:54 2009 From: Tim.Ford at cdph.ca.gov (Ford, Tim (CDPH-OLS)) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 07:31:54 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target In-Reply-To: <5F60EFF2D5FD48A6A428F280C2AE8727@labarre> References: <001401c9a189$3fa59ee0$bef0dca0$@net><4E8742A18776454A880746AD18B966F5@colorado0f48f8> <5F60EFF2D5FD48A6A428F280C2AE8727@labarre> Message-ID: <839F18076C66C345BD1C0A4ACA67A1F60315B402@dhsexcmsg12.intra.dhs.ca.gov> Did they get a good response on people making claims? -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Scott C. LaBarre Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 3:35 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target Yes. It had been postponed and was rescheduled to yesterday. Our local counsel attended the hearing and this afternoon Judge Patel issued an order granting final approval of the settlement and dismissing the claims. The only remaining matter is that we are waiting for an opinion and ruling on attorneys fees. Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. LaBarre Law Offices P.C. 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 Denver, Colorado 80222 303 504-5979 (voice) 303 757-3640 (fax) slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) www.labarrelaw.com (website) CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carrie Ann Lucas" To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 1:58 PM Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target >I think the final fairness hearing was supposed to happen yesterday. >Does anyone know if it happened, and if so, what were the results? > > Carrie Ann Lucas > Director Center for Rights of Parents with Disabilities Colorado > Cross-Disability Coalition > 655 Broadway, Suite 775 > Denver, CO 80203 > 303.839.1775 (main and messages) > 303.839.0015 (direct and TTY) > 303.839.1782 (facsimile) > 800.817.1435 (main and messages) > 877.267.1621 (direct and TTY) > www.ccdconline.org > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/slabarre%40l > abarrelaw.com > _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tim.ford%40cdph.ca.gov From slabarre at labarrelaw.com Wed Mar 11 15:34:39 2009 From: slabarre at labarrelaw.com (Scott C. LaBarre) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 09:34:39 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. lsac complaint References: <001401c9a189$3fa59ee0$bef0dca0$@net> Message-ID: Greetings: For a variety of reasons, I respectfully decline an opportunity to receive a properly formatted LSAT practice exam. Ultimately, it is LSAC's responsibility to make their exams accessible. The lawsuit goes far beyond the practice exam, however. It also addresses the inaccessibility of the electronic application to law school part of their website, which is a much larger problem than the practice exam. James, thanks for your input and work. Please contact me off line with your contact info so that we can consult with you as the matter moves forward. Thanks, Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. LaBarre Law Offices P.C. 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 Denver, Colorado 80222 303 504-5979 (voice) 303 757-3640 (fax) slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) www.labarrelaw.com (website) CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rod Alcidonis" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 11:56 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. lsac complaint You are also violating copyright laws whether you send it to Scott or bill, so you know. Rod Alcidonis Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009. Roger Williams University School of Law 10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 Bristol, RI 02809 Cell: 718-704-4651 Home: 401-824-8685 ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Pepper" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 1:42 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. lsac complaint Well Bill the content is copyrighted by LSAC so I am not sure I can send this to you. Perhaps some on this list can give that advice. I laid it out properly. James On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 9:05 AM, Bill Spiry wrote: > I would appreciate receiving this as well. Thanks. > bspiry at comcast.net > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of James Pepper > Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 1:46 AM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. lsac complaint > > Scott: I laid out the first section of the LSAT to be accessible and I > can > send you the files if you would like to see it. Also I made the form that > they use accessible so the blind can fill out the test without assistance. > This works with JAWS and Window Eyes and a combination of Adobe's Read out > Loud and Microsoft Narrator. My process works and if you need references > at > NFB, AFB and the AAPD I can send them to you. > > It took a while to figure out how they made thier pdfs and I know where > they > are making their mistakes. I can correct this problem. These PDFs are > made > to work natively with JAWS and Adobe Reader and the other screen readers > without making any adjustments. They work with the default settings in > Adobe Reader. > > Also the forms can be digitally signed and saved and all that fancy stuff > that you expect with Adobe Acrobat Professional can be done with > Adobe Reader, versions 8 or 9 which is the free download from Adobe.com. > So > we can make the LSAT accessible to anyone with a PC running Windows XP Or > VIsta without any change of settings. This means the PC can be there for > the sighted and the blind, with equal access for all. > > Also since I labeled everything, it will be a lot quicker for you to fill > out this test! > > Sincerely, > > James G. Pepper > > > > On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 4:32 PM, Scott C. LaBarre > wrote: > > > Below I am sharing the complaint that we filed today in California > > Court. > > ************** > > LaurEnce W. paradis (California Bar No. 122336) > > > > Anna levine (California Bar No. 227881) > > > > Disability Rights Advocates > > > > 2001 Center Street, Third Floor > > > > Berkeley, California 94704 > > > > Telephone: (510) 665-8644 > > > > Facsimile: (510) 665-8511 > > > > TTY: (510) 665-8716 > > > > > > > > SCOTT LABARRE (to seek pro hac vice admission) > > > > LABARRE LAW OFFICES, P.C. > > > > 1660 S. Albion Street, Ste 918 > > > > Denver, Colo 80222 > > > > Telephone: (303) 504-5979 > > > > Fax: (303) 757-3640 > > > > > > > > DANIEL F. GOLDSTEIN (to seek pro hac vice admission) > > > > MEHGAN Sidhu (to seek pro hac vice admission) > > > > Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP > > > > 120 E. Baltimore St., Suite 1700 > > > > Baltimore, MD 21202 > > > > Telephone: (410) 962-1030 > > > > Fax: (410) 385-0869 > > > > > > > > SUPERIOR COURT OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA > > COUNTY OF ALAMEDA > > > > > > > > National Federation of the Blind, the National Federation of the > Blind > > of CALIFORNIA, and DEEPA GORAYA, > > > > > > > > Plaintiffs, > > > > v. > > > > LAW SCHOOL ADMISSION COUNCIL, INC., > > > > Defendant. > > > > > > > > Case No.: > > > > > > > > > > > > COMPLAINT FOR INJUNCTIVE AND DECLARATORY RELIEF FOR VIOLATIONS OF > THE > > CALIFORNIA DISABLED PERSONS ACT AND UNRUH CIVIL RIGHTS ACT > > > > > > > > > > INTRODUCTION > > > > Plaintiffs complain of Defendant and allege herein as follows: > > > > 1. This action, brought by the National Federation of the Blind, > > the National Federation of the Blind of California, and Deepa Goraya, > seeks > > to put an end to civil rights violations committed by defendant Law > School > > Admissions Council (hereafter "LSAC") against blind persons seeking to > take > > the LSAT exam and apply to law schools. Plaintiff Deepa Goraya, a blind > law > > school applicant in California, has been and is being denied equal > > access > to > > the accommodations, advantages, and facilities LSAC provides its > > non-disabled customers through http://www.lsac.org (hereafter "lsac.org" > > and "the website"). Plaintiffs National Federation of the Blind and the > > National Federation of the Blind of California have members who are > > similarly denied full and equal access to such accommodations, > > advantages > > and facilities. Lsac.org is currently the only place online where > > prospective law students can register for the Law School Admissions Test > > ("LSAT"), apply to law schools, and obtain official LSAT test > > preparation > > materials and information. Lsac.org contains multiple access barriers > that > > make it difficult if not impossible for blind law school applicants and > LSAT > > test takers to use the website and to obtain practice materials without > > sighted assistance. LSAC thus excludes the blind, including Ms. Goraya, > > from full and equal access to the accommodations, advantages, > > facilities, > > and privileges of lsac.org. > > > > JURISDICTION > > > > 2. This is a civil action under California's Disabled Persons > > Act > > (Cal. Civ. Code §§ 54, et seq.) and the Unruh Civil Rights Act (Cal. > > Civ. > > Code §§ 51, et seq.) and for declaratory relief. This Court has > > jurisdiction over the claims alleged herein pursuant to California Civil > > Code §§ 54, et seq. and California Civil Code §§ 51, et seq. and > California > > Code of Civil Procedure section 1060. > > > > 3. This Court has jurisdiction over LSAC because LSAC is a > > corporation authorized to do business in California and LSAC conducts > > substantial business in California. LSAC owns, maintains and operates > > its > > website, lsac.org, throughout California and in Alameda County. > > > > > > > > VENUE > > > > 4. Venue is proper in Alameda County because liability arises in > > part in Alameda County, where the National Federation of the Blind of > > California has its headquarters. LSAC has been and is committing the > acts > > alleged herein in Alameda County, has been and is violating the rights > > of > > patrons in Alameda County, and has been and is causing injury to patrons > in > > Alameda County. > > > > 5. Plaintiff Goraya is a California citizen and has experienced > > injury in California as a result of LSAC's inaccessible website and > practice > > materials. > > > > PARTIES > > > > 6. Plaintiff the National Federation of the Blind (hereafter > "NFB") > > is a national advocacy organization. The NFB, the oldest and largest > > national organization of blind persons, is a non-profit corporation duly > > organized under the laws of the District of Columbia with its principal > > place of business in Baltimore, Maryland. It has affiliates in all 50 > > states (including California) as well as Washington, D.C. and Puerto > Rico. > > The vast majority of the approximately 50,000 members are blind > > persons. > > The NFB is widely recognized by the public, Congress, executive > > agencies > of > > government and the courts as a collective and representative voice on > behalf > > of blind Americans and their families. The purpose of the NFB is to > promote > > the general welfare of the blind by (1) assisting the blind in their > efforts > > to integrate themselves into society on terms of equality and (2) > removing > > barriers and changing social attitudes, stereotypes and mistaken beliefs > > that sighted and blind persons hold concerning the limitations created > > by > > blindness resulting in the denial of opportunity to blind persons in > > virtually every sphere of life. The NFB and many of its members have > long > > been actively involved in promoting adaptive technology for the blind, > > so > > that blind persons can live and work independently in today's > > technology-dependent world. NFB members reside throughout the United > > States, including the state of California, and many of its members would > use > > the services of lsac.org if this website is made independently usable by > > the blind. > > > > 7. Plaintiff the National Federation of the Blind of California > > (hereafter "NFB of California") is a state affiliate of the National > > Federation of the Blind. NFB of California is a California corporation > and > > carries out NFB's objectives at the state level. It has local chapters > > throughout California, including Alameda County, and has its > > headquarters > in > > Fremont, California, in Alameda County. > > > > 8. Plaintiff Goraya is a member of the NFB and the NFB of > > California. She is blind and has been denied full and equal access to > the > > accommodations, advantages, facilities and privileges of lsac.org. > > > > 9. Defendant LSAC, is a non-profit corporation > > established to coordinate, facilitate, and enhance the law school > admissions > > process. LSAC owns, operates and/or maintains the website lsac.com, a > > public accommodation. Plaintiffs seek access to the services provided > > by > > LSAC in California through lsac.org. > > > > FACTS > > > > 10. Lsac.org is owned, controlled and/or operated by LSAC. > Lsac.org > > is a public accommodation that offers its visitors comprehensive > > services > > for applying to law school. The website functions as the official > > destination for guiding prospective law school applicants through the > > fundamental steps of applying to law school. Among its services, > lsac.orgoffers information about the LSAT and law school application > process, and > > extensive LSAT preparation materials and resources. Lsac.org also > > serves > as > > the exclusive online means for registering for the LSAT and applying to > > ABA-accredited law schools. > > > > 11. According to the website, lsac.org's online services enable > > prospective law students to do the following, among other things: > > > > a.. Register for the LSAT > > b.. Register for the LSDAS (Law School Data Assembly Service) > > c.. Purchase publications and test preparation materials > > d.. Have access to electronic applications for all ABA-approved law > > schools > > e.. Apply online to law schools > > f.. Register for law school forums > > g.. Have 24-hour file access > > 12. In addition to facilitating the LSAT and law school application > > processes, a significant portion of the lsac.org website is devoted to > > preparing students to take the LSAT. Among the services offered in that > > regard are online information guides that explain how to prepare for the > > LSAT and free, downloadable sample practice tests and test questions. > > Lsac.org also offers for a fee an online LSAT practice test tool and > > the > > opportunity to purchase more than 40 official LSAT practice tests. > > > > 13. While sighted visitors to lsac.org can easily obtain the benefits > and > > advantages offered by the website, blind individuals, including Ms. > Goraya, > > have been and are being denied access to lsac.org due to LSAC's failure > > and refusal to remove access barriers to lsac.org. Specifically, blind > > visitors to the website, including Ms. Goraya, cannot independently > > apply > to > > law school, register for the LSAT, or obtain in an accessible format the > > LSAT preparation materials and practice tests available through lsac.org > . > > > > 14. The blind access websites by using keyboards in conjunction > with > > screen-reading software. This software vocalizes or conveys to a > refreshable > > Braille display information that appears visually on a computer screen. > > Unless websites are designed to allow for use in this manner, blind > persons > > are unable to fully access the internet websites and the information, > > products and services contained therein. > > > > 15. There are well-established guidelines for making websites > > accessible to the blind. These guidelines have been in place for at > least > > several years and have been followed successfully by other public > > accommodations in making their online services accessible. The Web > > Accessibility Initiative (WAI), a project of the World Wide Web > Consortium, > > which is the leading standards organization for the Web, has developed > > guidelines for making information that is reached via the internet > > accessible. The federal government has also promulgated accessibility > > standards under Section 508 of the Rehabilitation Act. These guidelines > > have long been readily available via the internet so that any public > > accommodation could easily secure the necessary information. > > > > 16. Lsac.org contains a variety of access barriers that prevent > free > > and full use by blind persons using keyboards and screen reading > software. > > These barriers include but are not limited to: lack of or improperly > > labeled form controls; faulty keyboard navigation; and use of tables and > > charts that are not formatted for accessibility. Form controls allow > users > > to input data on online forms and applications. These controls must be > > coded and labeled to allow screen-access software to detect and vocalize > the > > requested information. Keyboard navigation refers to the ability to > > successfully navigate a website using keyboard commands, as opposed to > > requiring a mouse as the exclusive means for navigation of the site. > > Further, charts and tables must be formatted to work with screen-access > > software. Much of the lsac.org website, and in particular the online > law > > school application and LSAT registration sections of the website, lack > these > > fundamental accessibility components. As a result, blind visitors to > > the > > website cannot independently use those and other critical features. > > > > 17. Lsac.org's test preparation materials that are available on > > the > > website in Adobe Portable Document (PDF) format, are not properly > "tagged." > > This means that the headings, paragraphs, tables, image descriptions > > and > > form controls are not easily discernable to screen-reading software. As > a > > result, these materials are cumbersome, if not impossible, for a blind > > visitor to navigate. > > > > 18. Finally, lsac.org fails to offer LSAT practice tests, > available > > as part of its test preparation services, in formats accessible to the > > blind. While the sighted can easily use the website to obtain more than > 40 > > formerly administered LSAT practice tests, the website fails to offer > > the > > opportunity to purchase these practice materials in formats accessible > > to > > the blind, such as Braille or an accessible electronic format. > > > > 19. As a result of lsac.org's accessibility barriers, blind law > > school applicants, including Ms. Goraya, must go over extraordinary > hurdles > > to register and prepare for the LSAT and to apply to law school compared > to > > their sighted counterparts. After unsuccessfully attempting to use > > lsac.org independently to register for the LSAT and fill out her law > > school applications, for example, Plaintiff Goraya was forced to select > and > > rely upon a reader for over 50 hours simply to read aloud the content of > the > > website and complete her law school applications. Moreover, none of the > > LSAT practice materials, which include previously administered versions > of > > the test, were available to her in accessible electronic formats. > Lsac.org > > thus contains numerous access barriers which deny full and equal access > to > > Plaintiff, who would otherwise use the accommodations, advantages, and > > facilities of lsac.org. > > > > 20. On December 10, 2008, Plaintiff National Federation of the > Blind > > notified LSAC of the unlawful accessibility barriers on its website. > LSAC > > responded by setting up and then canceling a meeting with the NFB. On > > January 22, 2009, the NFB notified LSAC that it intended to pursue legal > > action against LSAC for the unlawful barriers on its website. > > > > FIRST CAUSE OF ACTION > > > > (Violation of Cal. Civ. Code §§ 54, et seq. - the Disabled Persons Act) > > > > 21. The allegations contained in the previous paragraphs are > > incorporated by reference. > > > > 22. The Disabled Persons Act ("DPA") requires that individuals > > with > > disabilities have "full and equal access, as other members of the > > general > > public, to accommodations, advantages, facilities, . . . and other > > places > to > > which the general public is invited, subject only to the conditions and > > limitations established by law, or state or federal regulation, and > > applicable alike to all persons." Cal. Civ. Code 54.1(a)(1). > > > > 23. Lsac.org, which is owned, operated and/or maintained by LSAC, > is > > an > > > > accommodation, advantage, facility and/or place to which the general > public > > is invited, as those terms are used in Cal. Civ. Code § 54.1(a)(1). > > > > 24. Defendant's conduct alleged herein violates the DPA, including > > Cal. Civ. Code § 54.1(a)(1), by denying the Plaintiffs full and equal > access > > to the accommodations, advantages and facilities of lsac.org. > > > > 25. As a result of Defendant's conduct, the NFB, the NFB of > > California, and Ms. Goraya are entitled to injunctive relief requiring > > Defendant to make lsac.org accessible to blind individuals, and to make > > the LSAT test practice materials offered to lsac.org patrons available > to > > blind people in an accessible format. > > > > SECOND CAUSE OF ACTION > > > > (Violation of Cal.Civ. Code §§ 51, et seq. - The Unruh Act) > > > > 26. The allegations contained in the previous paragraphs are > > incorporated by reference. > > > > 27. California's Unruh Act requires that individuals with > > disabilities have "full and equal accommodations, advantages, > > facilities, > > privileges or services in all business establishments of every kind > > whatsoever." Cal. Civ. Code § 51(b). > > > > 28. LSAC and Lsac.org are business establishments as that term is > > used in Cal. Civ. Code § 51(b) and lsac.org is an accommodation, > > advantage, facility, privilege and service of LSAC. > > > > 29. Defendant's conduct alleged herein violates the Unruh Act, > > including Cal. Civ. Code § 51(b), by denying Plaintiffs the full and > equal > > accommodations, advantages, facilities, privileges or services of LSAC > and > > lsac.org. > > > > 30. Defendant violated the Unruh Act intentionally and/or with > > deliberate indifference to the likelihood that it was violating the > rights > > of blind people and/or Defendant's violations were so intuitive or > obvious > > that noncompliance could not be other than intentional. > > > > 31. As a result of Defendant's conduct, the NFB, the NFB of > > California, and Ms. Goraya are entitled to injunctive relief requiring > > Defendant to make lsac.org accessible to blind individuals, and to make > > the LSAT test practice materials offered to lsac.org patrons available > to > > blind people in an accessible format. > > > > > > > > THIRD CAUSE OF ACTION > > > > (Declaratory Relief, Cal. Civ. Proc. § 1060 ) > > > > 32. The allegations contained in the previous paragraphs are > > incorporated by reference. > > > > 33. On information and belief, Defendants contend that they may > > lawfully deny Plaintiffs access to their website and its contents. > > Plaintiffs contend that lsac.org, which LSAC owns, operates, and/or > > controls, must provide blind patrons access to its website and website > > contents under California Civil Code §§ 54, et seq. and California Civil > > Code §§ 51, et seq., which prohibit discrimination against the blind. > > > > 34. A judicial declaration is necessary and appropriate at this > time > > in order that each of the parties may know their respective rights and > > duties and act accordingly. > > > > WHEREFORE, Plaintiffs request relief as set forth below. > > > > RELIEF REQUESTED > > > > WHEREFORE, Plaintiffs pray for judgment as follows: > > > > 1. An order enjoining LSAC from violating California > > Civil Code §§ 51, et seq. and §§ 54, et seq.; > > > > 2. A declaration that LSAC is owning, maintaining > and/or > > operating lsac.org in a manner which discriminates against the blind and > > which fails to provide access for persons with disabilities as required > by > > law; > > > > 3. Plaintiffs' reasonable attorneys' fees and costs > > as > > authorized by California California Civil Code §§ 54, et seq., > > California > > Civil Code §§ 51, et seq., and pursuant to California Code of Civil > > Procedure § 1021.5. > > > > 4. Such other and further relief as the Court deems > just > > and proper. > > > > > > > > DATED: > > DISABILITY RIGHTS ADVOCATES > > > > > > > > > By: > > ____________________________ > > > > > > Laurence W. Paradis > > > > > > > > > > > > Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. > > > > LaBarre Law Offices P.C. > > 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 > > Denver, Colorado 80222 > > 303 504-5979 (voice) > > 303 757-3640 (fax) > > slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) > > www.labarrelaw.com (website) > > > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and > > privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may > not > > read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this > message > > in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or > > slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. > This > > message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic > > Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. > > _______________________________________________ > > blindlaw mailing list > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > blindlaw: > > > > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b75205%40gmail.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/bspiry%40comcast.n > et > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b75205%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/slabarre%40labarrelaw.com From m_b_gilmore at yahoo.com Wed Mar 11 17:00:41 2009 From: m_b_gilmore at yahoo.com (Mike Gilmore) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 10:00:41 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [blindlaw] independent contractor? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <923518.50295.qm@web90306.mail.mud.yahoo.com> What is meant by the term Of counsel?   Mike --- On Tue, 3/10/09, AZNOR99 at aol.com wrote: From: AZNOR99 at aol.com Subject: Re: [blindlaw] independent contractor? To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org Date: Tuesday, March 10, 2009, 10:24 PM When I was in private practice, I had a network of attorneys I'd call if I needed one to appear due to a conflict. Many lawyers have such informal networks, but others hire that sort of work out. For example, I had a friend who hired a private contractor to appear for all status hearings. I would suggest you start by making a list of all the lawyers you know in your area of practice and then getting in touch with them to let them you're available for court appearances. I also want to suggest _www.lawcrossing.com_ (http://www.lawcrossing.com) . It's not free, but it is quite good. You can set it up so it sends you job opportunities every day. It works like a search engine for legal jobs, and its success rate is high. Finally, you may want to consider joining a firm as Of Counsel. This is a lot cheaper for the firm because they don't necessarily have to pay you benefits, and most pay hourly wages instead of a salary. It's also really handy when there are client conflicts, because the Chinese wall is a lot easier to maintain. And malpractice insurance is much cheaper for Of Counsels than for employees. Good luck. Ronza In a message dated 3/10/2009 3:38:25 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, ckrugman at sbcglobal.net writes: Here in California there are agencies that hire temporary attorneys. Additionally, locally I have seen several ads on Craigslist looking for stand-in attorneys for court appearances and the like. I would check such places as Craigslist under "legal jobs" as well as general bar associations as well as publications for specialized bar associations, e.g. trial lawyers or as we know it in California Consumer Lawyers. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Shaw" To: Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 12:45 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] independent contractor? hmmm potential business idea a "temp agency" for lawyers, assigning independent ontractorsfor such tasks.... > Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 09:32:07 -0700 > From: m_b_gilmore at yahoo.com > To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org > Subject: [blindlaw] independent contractor? > > I am a member of a listserv for contract attorneys. Most of the e-mails > from that listserv concern document review; however, I read one the other > day about licensed attorneys working as independent contractors. (Examples > of this would be taking a deposition for another attorney or doing legal > research for another attorney or handling a court case for an attorney who > needs the help.) > > Anyway, I was wondering if any of you out there in D.C. or Northern > Virginia have done independent contractor work. That option appeals to > me. (Taking depositions appeals to me but I don't know how familiar one > would need to be with the case or if one just asks the questions the > attorney supplies to him.) > > Thanks in advance for your help. > > Mike > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/timandvickie%40hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ Express your personality in color! Preview and select themes for Hotmail®. http://www.windowslive-hotmail.com/LearnMore/personalize.aspx?ocid=TXT_MSGTX_W L_HM_express_032009#colortheme _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal .net _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/aznor99%40aol.com **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1219671244x1201345076/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fwww.freecreditreport.com%2Fpm%2Fdefault.aspx%3Fsc%3D668072%26hmpgID %3D62%26bcd%3DfebemailfooterNO62) _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/m_b_gilmore%40yahoo.com From my5thattempt at yahoo.com Wed Mar 11 18:38:07 2009 From: my5thattempt at yahoo.com (M BG) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 11:38:07 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target References: <001401c9a189$3fa59ee0$bef0dca0$@net> <4E8742A18776454A880746AD18B966F5@colorado0f48f8> <5F60EFF2D5FD48A6A428F280C2AE8727@labarre> Message-ID: <547789.45557.qm@web36707.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Thank you for the update.  What is the estimated time that this process it expected to take and at what point do you feel any claimants will be notified of disbursement? ________________________________ From: Scott C. LaBarre To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 3:35:26 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target Yes. It had been postponed and was rescheduled to yesterday.  Our local counsel attended the hearing and this afternoon Judge Patel issued an order granting final approval of the settlement and dismissing the claims.  The only remaining matter is that we are waiting for an opinion and ruling on attorneys fees. Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. LaBarre Law Offices P.C. 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 Denver, Colorado 80222 303 504-5979 (voice) 303 757-3640 (fax) slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) www.labarrelaw.com (website) CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carrie Ann Lucas" To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 1:58 PM Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > I think the final fairness hearing was supposed to happen yesterday.  Does > anyone know if it happened, and if so, what were the results? > > Carrie Ann Lucas > Director Center for Rights of Parents with Disabilities > Colorado Cross-Disability Coalition > 655 Broadway, Suite 775 > Denver, CO 80203 > 303.839.1775 (main and messages) > 303.839.0015 (direct and TTY) > 303.839.1782 (facsimile) > 800.817.1435 (main and messages) > 877.267.1621 (direct and TTY) > www.ccdconline.org > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/slabarre%40labarrelaw.com > _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/my5thattempt%40yahoo.com From carter.tjoseph at gmail.com Wed Mar 11 17:53:07 2009 From: carter.tjoseph at gmail.com (T. Joseph Carter) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 10:53:07 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. lsac complaint In-Reply-To: References: <001401c9a189$3fa59ee0$bef0dca0$@net> Message-ID: <20090311175307.GE58098@yumi.bluecherry.net> Hence the reason for the lawsuit. Actually, you may be able to send them to Scott if he is representing the NFB on this issue for use as evidence demonstrating that LSAC CAN make the documents accessible, but has chosen not to. I say may, because it seems like Copyright could not be a shield to prevent the court from seeing that the documents could be made accessible without substantial changes, if LSAC were to take minimal effort. I'd suggest asking someone qualified, as I'm 0L. ;) Joseph On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 01:45:10PM -0500, James Pepper wrote: >Well no wonder nothing becomes accessible. Stay with public domain documents >then. Oh well. > >James From dgoraya at ucla.edu Wed Mar 11 22:29:48 2009 From: dgoraya at ucla.edu (deepa goraya) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 15:29:48 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Fw: Any information is appreciated. Message-ID: <644B1987D48948378D3378088F70A3EA@deepa8b7ac5f2a> If anyone has any helpful info, please respond. Deepa ----- Original Message ----- From: "Aziza C" To: "David McClain" ; "deepa goraya" ; "Frances Carrillo" ; "Greg Benavidez" ; "Keyson, Terry" ; "Shane Johnson" ; "slabarre" Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 10:10 PM Subject: Any information is appreciated. > Hi Everyone, > Most of you know that my sister is going through an intense child > custody battle with her X-husband. Her previous lawyer was charging > her massive fees that he could never justify, and so she dismissed him > from the case. She has been trying to locate another legal > representative, and has been attempting to proceed with the case on > her own. This has resulted in paperwork being filled out incorrectly, > and court orders being sent to the wrong people. My sister really > doesn't know how to represent herself. It has recently gotten worse > when her x-husband sent out a complaint aledging that the accusations > of abuse that were he was charged with almost ten years ago were > untrue. My other sister and I were witnesses to this physical abuse, > which he was charged with. He also stated that my sister abducted he > child when my family relocated to Texas after the death of my father. > He claims that my family told my nephew that his father left my > sister for another woman, and that has been the reason for the > disfunctional father son relationship. My nephew has complained about > being physically abused while at his father's house, and I have been > one of the people who filed a report to the police on one such > occasion. My sister really needs assstance in how to respond to such > fabrications, and how to proceed. She is driving herself crazy, and > allowing her emotions to take over in court, which isn't helping her > at all. > If anyone has any information about lawyers in the Ventura/Oxnard Ca > area that might be able to help her, please email me as soon as > possible. > Thank you. > Aziza From rumpole at roadrunner.com Wed Mar 11 22:21:47 2009 From: rumpole at roadrunner.com (Ross Doerr) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 18:21:47 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] College textbooks question Message-ID: Recently there was a case noted on this list that involved college level textbooks being in accessible format. If anyone recalls that case, could you please contact me off list? Any comments regarding college level textbook accessibility would be welcome as well. Ross Doerr Esq. rumpole at roadrunner.com From angie at mpmail.net Thu Mar 12 10:45:53 2009 From: angie at mpmail.net (Angie Matney) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 06:45:53 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] College textbooks question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20090312104747.51092C51F4@mail1-backupmx.mn2.visi.com> Hi Ross, I don't remember the case you're referring to, but I think there is a New York law concerning accessibility of post-secondary texts. The Cornell disability services person mentioned it to me when I was trying to decide where to go to law school. He made it sound as though publishers must provide electronic copies if they are requiested. Sorry I don't know more about this. Angie On Wed, 11 Mar 2009 18:21:47 -0400, Ross Doerr wrote: >Recently there was a case noted on this list that involved college level textbooks being in accessible format. >If anyone recalls that case, could you please contact me off list? >Any comments regarding college level textbook accessibility would be welcome as well. >Ross Doerr Esq. >rumpole at roadrunner.com >_______________________________________________ >blindlaw mailing list >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie%40mpmail.net From bspiry at comcast.net Thu Mar 12 01:52:30 2009 From: bspiry at comcast.net (Bill Spiry) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 18:52:30 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. lsac complaint In-Reply-To: References: <001401c9a189$3fa59ee0$bef0dca0$@net> Message-ID: <000c01c9a2b5$35c39440$a14abcc0$@net> I understand. What might be done to getLSAC to authorize use of this material as an accessible alternative to what they have to offer? I know NFB is sueing them, but in the mean time that leaves folks like me who don't have the Adobe skills you have, and facing the LSAT soon without accessible matter. Any ideas or suggestions? Thanks. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of James Pepper Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 10:43 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. lsac complaint Well Bill the content is copyrighted by LSAC so I am not sure I can send this to you. Perhaps some on this list can give that advice. I laid it out properly. James On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 9:05 AM, Bill Spiry wrote: > I would appreciate receiving this as well. Thanks. > bspiry at comcast.net > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of James Pepper > Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 1:46 AM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. lsac complaint > > Scott: I laid out the first section of the LSAT to be accessible and I > can > send you the files if you would like to see it. Also I made the form that > they use accessible so the blind can fill out the test without assistance. > This works with JAWS and Window Eyes and a combination of Adobe's Read out > Loud and Microsoft Narrator. My process works and if you need references > at > NFB, AFB and the AAPD I can send them to you. > > It took a while to figure out how they made thier pdfs and I know where > they > are making their mistakes. I can correct this problem. These PDFs are made > to work natively with JAWS and Adobe Reader and the other screen readers > without making any adjustments. They work with the default settings in > Adobe Reader. > > Also the forms can be digitally signed and saved and all that fancy stuff > that you expect with Adobe Acrobat Professional can be done with > Adobe Reader, versions 8 or 9 which is the free download from Adobe.com. > So > we can make the LSAT accessible to anyone with a PC running Windows XP Or > VIsta without any change of settings. This means the PC can be there for > the sighted and the blind, with equal access for all. > > Also since I labeled everything, it will be a lot quicker for you to fill > out this test! > > Sincerely, > > James G. Pepper > > > > On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 4:32 PM, Scott C. LaBarre > wrote: > > > Below I am sharing the complaint that we filed today in California Court. > > ************** > > LaurEnce W. paradis (California Bar No. 122336) > > > > Anna levine (California Bar No. 227881) > > > > Disability Rights Advocates > > > > 2001 Center Street, Third Floor > > > > Berkeley, California 94704 > > > > Telephone: (510) 665-8644 > > > > Facsimile: (510) 665-8511 > > > > TTY: (510) 665-8716 > > > > > > > > SCOTT LABARRE (to seek pro hac vice admission) > > > > LABARRE LAW OFFICES, P.C. > > > > 1660 S. Albion Street, Ste 918 > > > > Denver, Colo 80222 > > > > Telephone: (303) 504-5979 > > > > Fax: (303) 757-3640 > > > > > > > > DANIEL F. GOLDSTEIN (to seek pro hac vice admission) > > > > MEHGAN Sidhu (to seek pro hac vice admission) > > > > Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP > > > > 120 E. Baltimore St., Suite 1700 > > > > Baltimore, MD 21202 > > > > Telephone: (410) 962-1030 > > > > Fax: (410) 385-0869 > > > > > > > > SUPERIOR COURT OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA > > COUNTY OF ALAMEDA > > > > > > > > National Federation of the Blind, the National Federation of the > Blind > > of CALIFORNIA, and DEEPA GORAYA, > > > > > > > > Plaintiffs, > > > > v. > > > > LAW SCHOOL ADMISSION COUNCIL, INC., > > > > Defendant. > > > > > > > > Case No.: > > > > > > > > > > > > COMPLAINT FOR INJUNCTIVE AND DECLARATORY RELIEF FOR VIOLATIONS OF > THE > > CALIFORNIA DISABLED PERSONS ACT AND UNRUH CIVIL RIGHTS ACT > > > > > > > > > > INTRODUCTION > > > > Plaintiffs complain of Defendant and allege herein as follows: > > > > 1. This action, brought by the National Federation of the Blind, > > the National Federation of the Blind of California, and Deepa Goraya, > seeks > > to put an end to civil rights violations committed by defendant Law > School > > Admissions Council (hereafter "LSAC") against blind persons seeking to > take > > the LSAT exam and apply to law schools. Plaintiff Deepa Goraya, a blind > law > > school applicant in California, has been and is being denied equal access > to > > the accommodations, advantages, and facilities LSAC provides its > > non-disabled customers through http://www.lsac.org (hereafter "lsac.org" > > and "the website"). Plaintiffs National Federation of the Blind and the > > National Federation of the Blind of California have members who are > > similarly denied full and equal access to such accommodations, advantages > > and facilities. Lsac.org is currently the only place online where > > prospective law students can register for the Law School Admissions Test > > ("LSAT"), apply to law schools, and obtain official LSAT test preparation > > materials and information. Lsac.org contains multiple access barriers > that > > make it difficult if not impossible for blind law school applicants and > LSAT > > test takers to use the website and to obtain practice materials without > > sighted assistance. LSAC thus excludes the blind, including Ms. Goraya, > > from full and equal access to the accommodations, advantages, facilities, > > and privileges of lsac.org. > > > > JURISDICTION > > > > 2. This is a civil action under California's Disabled Persons Act > > (Cal. Civ. Code §§ 54, et seq.) and the Unruh Civil Rights Act (Cal. Civ. > > Code §§ 51, et seq.) and for declaratory relief. This Court has > > jurisdiction over the claims alleged herein pursuant to California Civil > > Code §§ 54, et seq. and California Civil Code §§ 51, et seq. and > California > > Code of Civil Procedure section 1060. > > > > 3. This Court has jurisdiction over LSAC because LSAC is a > > corporation authorized to do business in California and LSAC conducts > > substantial business in California. LSAC owns, maintains and operates its > > website, lsac.org, throughout California and in Alameda County. > > > > > > > > VENUE > > > > 4. Venue is proper in Alameda County because liability arises in > > part in Alameda County, where the National Federation of the Blind of > > California has its headquarters. LSAC has been and is committing the > acts > > alleged herein in Alameda County, has been and is violating the rights of > > patrons in Alameda County, and has been and is causing injury to patrons > in > > Alameda County. > > > > 5. Plaintiff Goraya is a California citizen and has experienced > > injury in California as a result of LSAC's inaccessible website and > practice > > materials. > > > > PARTIES > > > > 6. Plaintiff the National Federation of the Blind (hereafter > "NFB") > > is a national advocacy organization. The NFB, the oldest and largest > > national organization of blind persons, is a non-profit corporation duly > > organized under the laws of the District of Columbia with its principal > > place of business in Baltimore, Maryland. It has affiliates in all 50 > > states (including California) as well as Washington, D.C. and Puerto > Rico. > > The vast majority of the approximately 50,000 members are blind persons. > > The NFB is widely recognized by the public, Congress, executive agencies > of > > government and the courts as a collective and representative voice on > behalf > > of blind Americans and their families. The purpose of the NFB is to > promote > > the general welfare of the blind by (1) assisting the blind in their > efforts > > to integrate themselves into society on terms of equality and (2) > removing > > barriers and changing social attitudes, stereotypes and mistaken beliefs > > that sighted and blind persons hold concerning the limitations created by > > blindness resulting in the denial of opportunity to blind persons in > > virtually every sphere of life. The NFB and many of its members have > long > > been actively involved in promoting adaptive technology for the blind, so > > that blind persons can live and work independently in today's > > technology-dependent world. NFB members reside throughout the United > > States, including the state of California, and many of its members would > use > > the services of lsac.org if this website is made independently usable by > > the blind. > > > > 7. Plaintiff the National Federation of the Blind of California > > (hereafter "NFB of California") is a state affiliate of the National > > Federation of the Blind. NFB of California is a California corporation > and > > carries out NFB's objectives at the state level. It has local chapters > > throughout California, including Alameda County, and has its headquarters > in > > Fremont, California, in Alameda County. > > > > 8. Plaintiff Goraya is a member of the NFB and the NFB of > > California. She is blind and has been denied full and equal access to > the > > accommodations, advantages, facilities and privileges of lsac.org. > > > > 9. Defendant LSAC, is a non-profit corporation > > established to coordinate, facilitate, and enhance the law school > admissions > > process. LSAC owns, operates and/or maintains the website lsac.com, a > > public accommodation. Plaintiffs seek access to the services provided by > > LSAC in California through lsac.org. > > > > FACTS > > > > 10. Lsac.org is owned, controlled and/or operated by LSAC. > Lsac.org > > is a public accommodation that offers its visitors comprehensive services > > for applying to law school. The website functions as the official > > destination for guiding prospective law school applicants through the > > fundamental steps of applying to law school. Among its services, > lsac.orgoffers information about the LSAT and law school application > process, and > > extensive LSAT preparation materials and resources. Lsac.org also serves > as > > the exclusive online means for registering for the LSAT and applying to > > ABA-accredited law schools. > > > > 11. According to the website, lsac.org's online services enable > > prospective law students to do the following, among other things: > > > > a.. Register for the LSAT > > b.. Register for the LSDAS (Law School Data Assembly Service) > > c.. Purchase publications and test preparation materials > > d.. Have access to electronic applications for all ABA-approved law > > schools > > e.. Apply online to law schools > > f.. Register for law school forums > > g.. Have 24-hour file access > > 12. In addition to facilitating the LSAT and law school application > > processes, a significant portion of the lsac.org website is devoted to > > preparing students to take the LSAT. Among the services offered in that > > regard are online information guides that explain how to prepare for the > > LSAT and free, downloadable sample practice tests and test questions. > > Lsac.org also offers for a fee an online LSAT practice test tool and the > > opportunity to purchase more than 40 official LSAT practice tests. > > > > 13. While sighted visitors to lsac.org can easily obtain the benefits > and > > advantages offered by the website, blind individuals, including Ms. > Goraya, > > have been and are being denied access to lsac.org due to LSAC's failure > > and refusal to remove access barriers to lsac.org. Specifically, blind > > visitors to the website, including Ms. Goraya, cannot independently apply > to > > law school, register for the LSAT, or obtain in an accessible format the > > LSAT preparation materials and practice tests available through lsac.org > . > > > > 14. The blind access websites by using keyboards in conjunction > with > > screen-reading software. This software vocalizes or conveys to a > refreshable > > Braille display information that appears visually on a computer screen. > > Unless websites are designed to allow for use in this manner, blind > persons > > are unable to fully access the internet websites and the information, > > products and services contained therein. > > > > 15. There are well-established guidelines for making websites > > accessible to the blind. These guidelines have been in place for at > least > > several years and have been followed successfully by other public > > accommodations in making their online services accessible. The Web > > Accessibility Initiative (WAI), a project of the World Wide Web > Consortium, > > which is the leading standards organization for the Web, has developed > > guidelines for making information that is reached via the internet > > accessible. The federal government has also promulgated accessibility > > standards under Section 508 of the Rehabilitation Act. These guidelines > > have long been readily available via the internet so that any public > > accommodation could easily secure the necessary information. > > > > 16. Lsac.org contains a variety of access barriers that prevent > free > > and full use by blind persons using keyboards and screen reading > software. > > These barriers include but are not limited to: lack of or improperly > > labeled form controls; faulty keyboard navigation; and use of tables and > > charts that are not formatted for accessibility. Form controls allow > users > > to input data on online forms and applications. These controls must be > > coded and labeled to allow screen-access software to detect and vocalize > the > > requested information. Keyboard navigation refers to the ability to > > successfully navigate a website using keyboard commands, as opposed to > > requiring a mouse as the exclusive means for navigation of the site. > > Further, charts and tables must be formatted to work with screen-access > > software. Much of the lsac.org website, and in particular the online > law > > school application and LSAT registration sections of the website, lack > these > > fundamental accessibility components. As a result, blind visitors to the > > website cannot independently use those and other critical features. > > > > 17. Lsac.org's test preparation materials that are available on the > > website in Adobe Portable Document (PDF) format, are not properly > "tagged." > > This means that the headings, paragraphs, tables, image descriptions and > > form controls are not easily discernable to screen-reading software. As > a > > result, these materials are cumbersome, if not impossible, for a blind > > visitor to navigate. > > > > 18. Finally, lsac.org fails to offer LSAT practice tests, > available > > as part of its test preparation services, in formats accessible to the > > blind. While the sighted can easily use the website to obtain more than > 40 > > formerly administered LSAT practice tests, the website fails to offer the > > opportunity to purchase these practice materials in formats accessible to > > the blind, such as Braille or an accessible electronic format. > > > > 19. As a result of lsac.org's accessibility barriers, blind law > > school applicants, including Ms. Goraya, must go over extraordinary > hurdles > > to register and prepare for the LSAT and to apply to law school compared > to > > their sighted counterparts. After unsuccessfully attempting to use > > lsac.org independently to register for the LSAT and fill out her law > > school applications, for example, Plaintiff Goraya was forced to select > and > > rely upon a reader for over 50 hours simply to read aloud the content of > the > > website and complete her law school applications. Moreover, none of the > > LSAT practice materials, which include previously administered versions > of > > the test, were available to her in accessible electronic formats. > Lsac.org > > thus contains numerous access barriers which deny full and equal access > to > > Plaintiff, who would otherwise use the accommodations, advantages, and > > facilities of lsac.org. > > > > 20. On December 10, 2008, Plaintiff National Federation of the > Blind > > notified LSAC of the unlawful accessibility barriers on its website. > LSAC > > responded by setting up and then canceling a meeting with the NFB. On > > January 22, 2009, the NFB notified LSAC that it intended to pursue legal > > action against LSAC for the unlawful barriers on its website. > > > > FIRST CAUSE OF ACTION > > > > (Violation of Cal. Civ. Code §§ 54, et seq. - the Disabled Persons Act) > > > > 21. The allegations contained in the previous paragraphs are > > incorporated by reference. > > > > 22. The Disabled Persons Act ("DPA") requires that individuals with > > disabilities have "full and equal access, as other members of the general > > public, to accommodations, advantages, facilities, . . . and other places > to > > which the general public is invited, subject only to the conditions and > > limitations established by law, or state or federal regulation, and > > applicable alike to all persons." Cal. Civ. Code 54.1(a)(1). > > > > 23. Lsac.org, which is owned, operated and/or maintained by LSAC, > is > > an > > > > accommodation, advantage, facility and/or place to which the general > public > > is invited, as those terms are used in Cal. Civ. Code § 54.1(a)(1). > > > > 24. Defendant's conduct alleged herein violates the DPA, including > > Cal. Civ. Code § 54.1(a)(1), by denying the Plaintiffs full and equal > access > > to the accommodations, advantages and facilities of lsac.org. > > > > 25. As a result of Defendant's conduct, the NFB, the NFB of > > California, and Ms. Goraya are entitled to injunctive relief requiring > > Defendant to make lsac.org accessible to blind individuals, and to make > > the LSAT test practice materials offered to lsac.org patrons available > to > > blind people in an accessible format. > > > > SECOND CAUSE OF ACTION > > > > (Violation of Cal.Civ. Code §§ 51, et seq. - The Unruh Act) > > > > 26. The allegations contained in the previous paragraphs are > > incorporated by reference. > > > > 27. California's Unruh Act requires that individuals with > > disabilities have "full and equal accommodations, advantages, facilities, > > privileges or services in all business establishments of every kind > > whatsoever." Cal. Civ. Code § 51(b). > > > > 28. LSAC and Lsac.org are business establishments as that term is > > used in Cal. Civ. Code § 51(b) and lsac.org is an accommodation, > > advantage, facility, privilege and service of LSAC. > > > > 29. Defendant's conduct alleged herein violates the Unruh Act, > > including Cal. Civ. Code § 51(b), by denying Plaintiffs the full and > equal > > accommodations, advantages, facilities, privileges or services of LSAC > and > > lsac.org. > > > > 30. Defendant violated the Unruh Act intentionally and/or with > > deliberate indifference to the likelihood that it was violating the > rights > > of blind people and/or Defendant's violations were so intuitive or > obvious > > that noncompliance could not be other than intentional. > > > > 31. As a result of Defendant's conduct, the NFB, the NFB of > > California, and Ms. Goraya are entitled to injunctive relief requiring > > Defendant to make lsac.org accessible to blind individuals, and to make > > the LSAT test practice materials offered to lsac.org patrons available > to > > blind people in an accessible format. > > > > > > > > THIRD CAUSE OF ACTION > > > > (Declaratory Relief, Cal. Civ. Proc. § 1060 ) > > > > 32. The allegations contained in the previous paragraphs are > > incorporated by reference. > > > > 33. On information and belief, Defendants contend that they may > > lawfully deny Plaintiffs access to their website and its contents. > > Plaintiffs contend that lsac.org, which LSAC owns, operates, and/or > > controls, must provide blind patrons access to its website and website > > contents under California Civil Code §§ 54, et seq. and California Civil > > Code §§ 51, et seq., which prohibit discrimination against the blind. > > > > 34. A judicial declaration is necessary and appropriate at this > time > > in order that each of the parties may know their respective rights and > > duties and act accordingly. > > > > WHEREFORE, Plaintiffs request relief as set forth below. > > > > RELIEF REQUESTED > > > > WHEREFORE, Plaintiffs pray for judgment as follows: > > > > 1. An order enjoining LSAC from violating California > > Civil Code §§ 51, et seq. and §§ 54, et seq.; > > > > 2. A declaration that LSAC is owning, maintaining > and/or > > operating lsac.org in a manner which discriminates against the blind and > > which fails to provide access for persons with disabilities as required > by > > law; > > > > 3. Plaintiffs' reasonable attorneys' fees and costs as > > authorized by California California Civil Code §§ 54, et seq., California > > Civil Code §§ 51, et seq., and pursuant to California Code of Civil > > Procedure § 1021.5. > > > > 4. Such other and further relief as the Court deems > just > > and proper. > > > > > > > > DATED: > > DISABILITY RIGHTS ADVOCATES > > > > > > > > > By: > > ____________________________ > > > > > > Laurence W. Paradis > > > > > > > > > > > > Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. > > > > LaBarre Law Offices P.C. > > 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 > > Denver, Colorado 80222 > > 303 504-5979 (voice) > > 303 757-3640 (fax) > > slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) > > www.labarrelaw.com (website) > > > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and > > privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may > not > > read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this > message > > in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or > > slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. > This > > message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic > > Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. > > _______________________________________________ > > blindlaw mailing list > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > blindlaw: > > > > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b75205%40gmail.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/bspiry%40comcast.n > et > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b75205%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/bspiry%40comcast.n et From b75205 at gmail.com Thu Mar 12 17:28:44 2009 From: b75205 at gmail.com (James Pepper) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 12:28:44 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. lsac complaint In-Reply-To: <20090311175307.GE58098@yumi.bluecherry.net> References: <001401c9a189$3fa59ee0$bef0dca0$@net> <20090311175307.GE58098@yumi.bluecherry.net> Message-ID: Well I will make a default layout and send that instead. The problem here is that the folks at the LSAT are actually using the wrong program to make their PDFs. That program consistently makes errors for accessibility. James Pepper On Wed, Mar 11, 2009 at 12:53 PM, T. Joseph Carter wrote: > Hence the reason for the lawsuit. > > Actually, you may be able to send them to Scott if he is representing the > NFB on this issue for use as evidence demonstrating that LSAC CAN make the > documents accessible, but has chosen not to. I say may, because it seems > like Copyright could not be a shield to prevent the court from seeing that > the documents could be made accessible without substantial changes, if LSAC > were to take minimal effort. I'd suggest asking someone qualified, as I'm > 0L. ;) > > Joseph > > On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 01:45:10PM -0500, James Pepper wrote: > >> Well no wonder nothing becomes accessible. Stay with public domain >> documents >> then. Oh well. >> >> James >> > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b75205%40gmail.com > From b75205 at gmail.com Thu Mar 12 17:25:00 2009 From: b75205 at gmail.com (James Pepper) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 12:25:00 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] comments needed regarding policy for audible pedestrian signals In-Reply-To: <46F35C9C59EA4BEA85A215EF8960813E@spike> References: <46F35C9C59EA4BEA85A215EF8960813E@spike> Message-ID: Well if you are in London they have a lot of experience with this type of thing. Well what they should be doing is placing the raised warnings actually into the roads for the crosswalks but the law is specific in only providing a visual contrast, which is just painting lines into the road. Here is the ADAAG link: http://www.access-board.gov/adaag/html/adaag.htm#4.29 There is a man living near me whose dog is not that good and he has to spend a long time figuring out if he can safely walk across the street. His dog leads him diagonally across the street, it is a disaster! He wants to be independent and refuses to talk about it, but his dog is not that good. Toronto and London have accessible traffic lights, they will have the data on this type of thing. James Pepper On Wed, Mar 11, 2009 at 7:21 AM, wrote: > The City of Fresno is proposing the policy shown below to evaluate the > installation of audible traffic signals. As this is outside my expertise I > would appreciate any comments regarding this document. Please feel free to > contact me off list if needed. > Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal > 1237 P Street > Fresno ca 93721 > 559-266-9237 > > > APS Policy-03-09-LP .pdf > DRAFT ACCESSIBLE PEDESTRIAN SIGNALS (APS) > INTERSECTION EVALUATION PROCEDURE > BACKGROUND > Accessible Pedestrian Signals (APS), also known as audible pedestrian > signals, are devices > that communicate information about pedestrian timing in nonvisual format > such as audible > tones, verbal messages, and/or vibrating surfaces. APS are used in > conjunction with standard > pedestrian activated traffic signals to provide the following information > to pedestrians: > list of 4 items >  > Existence of and location of the pedestrian pushbutton >  > Beginning of the pedestrian WALK interval >  > Direction of the crosswalk and location of the destination curb >  > Clearance signal interval > list end > They are used to assist blind and visually impaired persons and other > persons with disabilities > of all ages to cross at designated streets and intersections. > PURPOSE > The purpose of this evaluation policy is to set forth factors to be used by > the City of Fresno’s > Public Works Department, in cooperation with the City of Fresno’s > Disability Advisory > Commission, in developing a priority listing of signalized intersection > candidates to be retrofitted > with audible devices that will provide guidance for the blind community and > visually impaired > persons and other persons with disabilities of all ages to cross certain > streets. > POLICY > It is the policy of the City Council that the retrofitting of existing > traffic signals with APS shall be > based on factors established herein and that such measurements and > computations as may be > required in determining priority rating of candidate locations shall be the > responsibility of the > Public Works Department. > It should be noted that in special situations, an APS should not be > installed because of the > adverse affect it could have on pedestrian safety as a result of the > overall traffic circulation > pattern of an area, or unusual geometric conditions where an APS would not > provide the safety > benefits necessary for the blind or visually impaired individuals to cross > a street. It should also > be noted that some traffic signals cannot be retrofitted with APS without > major costly > modifications. Retrofitting of traffic signals with APS shall be subject to > approval by the City > Engineer. > Important: APS are utilized to help blind and visually impaired travelers > recognize when a > WALK signal is operating in a given direction. An APS may enhance the > safety of blind > travelers in two ways: > list of 1 items > 1. > Lessens the chance of a blind or visually impaired pedestrian misjudging > when the walk > phase is operating, thereby lessening the chance of accidentally crossing > against a > signal. > list end > list of 1 items > 2. > Helps blind and visually impaired pedestrians recognize immediately when > the walk > phase begins, permitting them to cross the street in a timely fashion, > thereby lessening > the chance of being in the intersection when the signal changes. > list end > However, it is important to recognize that the APS does not and cannot > assure the blind and > visually impaired pedestrians that there will be no potential traffic > conflicts while crossing when > the APS is operating. In particular, the blind and visually impaired > pedestrians should be aware > of at least four possible conflicts. > list of 4 items > 1. > Vehicles may be still clearing the intersection when the APS comes on. > 2. > Vehicles may fail to stop for the red light. This is particularly common > for motorists > attempting to enter on a yellow light. > 3. > Motorists may stop and make a right turn on red while watching traffic on > their left but > may fail to notice pedestrians on their right. > 4. > Vehicles may have right and left turns on the same phase as the pedestrian. > list end > Because of these potential conflicts, it is important that the blind or > visually impaired traveler > exercise due caution for his or her well-being when crossing a street, > whether or not it is > equipped with APS. It is especially important that blind and visually > impaired travelers be > properly trained by certified orientation and mobility specialists in safe > travel techniques on the > public right-of-way. > EVALUATION PROCEDURE (See attached “Evaluation Form.”) > The following basic considerations and evaluation factors shall be utilized > to determine whether > a location is eligible to be a candidate for APS and to determine its > relative position on the > priority list. Evaluation and scoring of factors will be conducted by an > evaluation team consisting > of a certified orientation-mobility specialist, a visually impaired/blind > traveler and a traffic > engineer. Candidate locations shall be requested by the City of Fresno > Disability Advisory > Commission, its working groups, and constituent requests to the ADA > Coordinator’s office. > Candidate locations will be evaluated by means of the sample evaluation > sheet attached. > I. BASIC CONSIDERATIONS: > APS normally will be considered for installation only if the following > conditions are met: > list of 5 items > A. > Intersections must be signalized. > B. > Signals must be susceptible to retrofitting. > C. > Signals should be equipped with pedestrian signal actuations. (See also > section on > “Signals without Pedestrian Actuations.”) > D. > Location must be suitable to installation of audible signals, in terms of > surrounding land > use, noise level and neighborhood acceptance. > E. > There must be a demonstrated need for the audible signals in the form of a > request from > an individual or group that would use the audible signal. > list end > II EVALUATION FACTORS > The following factors shall be used to establish a priority listing for > potential audible traffic signal > candidates. Candidates will be arranged in priority order of those with the > highest total points > (100 points maximum) on top and then in descending order. The scoring of > factors will be > conducted by an evaluation team consistent of a mobility specialist, a > visually impaired/blind > traveler and a traffic engineer. If the request for an APS was made by a > deaf blind individual, or > by representative of an organization serving deaf blind pedestrians in > order to improve access in > their geographic area, the evaluation team may also include a deaf blind > rater. The decision > whether to include a deaf blind rater will be made by the City Engineer. > A) Intersection Safety > 1. Accident Records: Past pedestrian accident experience at the > intersection will > be used as an indication of potential safety performance. Points will be > based on > pedestrian accidents reported by the City of Fresno’s Police Department. > > table with 3 columns and 6 rows > Pedestrian Accidents > Period > Points > 1 > 4 years > 1 > 2 > 4 years > 2 > 3 > 4 years > 3 > 4 > 4 years > 4 > 5 or more > 4 years > 5 > table end > > 2. Intersection Configuration: The number of approaches to an intersection > and > their geometric configuration (offset, skewed, etc.) affect the ability of > the blind > and visually impaired persons crossing the roadway. In particular, traffic > at 3-leg > intersections tends not to provide adequate audible clues for the blind to > permit > them to effectively judge the signal phase. > > table with 2 columns and 6 rows > Configuration > Points > 4-leg right angle intersection > 1 > 3-leg T-intersection > 2 > 3 or 4-leg skewed intersection > 3 > 4-leg offset intersection > 4 > Other complex or multiple leg intersections > 5 > table end > > Note: Intersections with 5 or more legs will require special design. > 3. Intersection Signalization: Pre-timed intersections are the easiest for > blind > pedestrian because the phase interval is constant and can be observed over > time. Vehicle actuated intersections are more difficult, because the > pedestrian > interval may be of different lengths or skipped all together. Split-phasing > can > provide confusing auditory information, as a traveler may interpret > left-turning > vehicles as a parallel traffic surge. > > table with 2 columns and 5 rows > Signalization > Points > Pre-timed > 0 > Vehicle Actuated > 2 > Split Phasing > 4 > Exclusive Ped Phase (for future reference) > 5 > table end > > 4. > Width of Crossing: > Wider streets are more difficult for blind travelers to cross. If > each leg of the intersection has a different width, points will be assigned > on the > basis of the widest street on which pedestrians are permitted to cross. > Crossing > width will be measured at the point pedestrians normally cross the street. > Islands > and medians will be included in the total crossing distance even if they > are > equipped with separate pedestrian signal actuators. These points will be > apportioned based upon the greatest width of the crossing at the subject > intersection. > > table with 2 columns and 7 rows > Width of Crossing > Points > 40 feet or less > 0 > 40 to 59 feet > 1 > 60 to 79 feet > 2 > 80 to 99 feet > 3 > 100 -119 > 4 > 120 feet or more > 5 > table end > > 5. Vehicle Speed: The speed of approaching traffic reflects the ability of > approaching traffic to stop for a pedestrian clearing the intersection as > the lights > change. Audible signals help blind pedestrians get a timely start at the > beginning > of the walk phase, thereby permitting clearing the intersection in a timely > manner. > Points are assigned on the basis of the 85 percentile speed on the fastest > approach leg. More points are assigned on the basis of higher speeds. > > table with 2 columns and 6 rows > Speed Range > Points > 0 – 25 mph > 1 > 26 – 30 mph > 2 > 31 – 35 mph > 3 > 36 – 40 mph > 4 > 41 mph or over > 5 > table end > > B. Crosswalk Characteristics > These points will be apportioned based upon the highest-scoring > characteristics of any of the > crosswalks at the intersection. For example, if any of the crosswalks at an > intersection have a > median island protruding into an intersection, then the intersection will > receive the two points > allotted for that characteristic. > list of 1 items > (a) > Location of Pedestrian Push Button. Pedestrian push buttons that are too > far from > the intersection can present difficulties for blind pedestrians. They may > make it > harder for an individual to use the button as a cue for alignment and/or to > push the > button and cross in the same cycle. > list end > > table with 2 columns and 4 rows > Location of Pedestrian Actuations > Points > One or more ped pushbuttons located > 10 ft from curb > 1 > One or more ped pushbuttons located > 5 ft from crosswalk extended > 2 > One or more ped pushbuttons out of alignment with direction of travel > 2 > table end > > list of 1 items > (b) > Median Islands Blind pedestrians have difficulties interpreting traffic > clues at > medians and islands. Efforts should be made to permit the blind to cross in > one > continuous movement. In such cases, signal timing should be extended to > accommodate the full crossing. Divided streets with or without a pedestrian > signal > actuator in the median will be handled as a single crossing, with the width > measured > across the entire street. > list end > > table with 2 columns and 2 rows > Median Island > Points > Protruding into crosswalk, or cut through. > 2 > table end > > list of 1 items > (c) > Alignment of Crosswalk. A skewed crosswalk is one in which the direction of > travel > on the crosswalk differs from that on the approaching sidewalk. In this > context, > skew is not defined as the angle at which streets intersect. If a blind > pedestrian > walking a straight line from the approaching sidewalk is headed toward > parallel > traffic lanes, the crosswalk is skewed. If the pedestrian would end up > deviating from > the crosswalk, but would still arrive at the opposite corner, the crosswalk > is not > defined as skewed for this purpose. > list end > Skewed Crosswalk > 4 > (d) Distance to Alternative APS > > table with 2 columns and 6 rows > Distance to Alternative APS Crosswalk > Points > 1 block > 0 > 2 blocks > 0 > 3 blocks > 2 > 4 blocks > 2 > 5 or more blocks > 3 > table end > > (e) Requests for APS > New requests for APS will be recorded by the ADA Coordinator. Requestors > will be > asked to specify the reason for the request (e.g. proximity on a route to > school or work), > the difficulty they encounter at the intersection, and the time of day that > presents the > greatest difficulty. This information may be used by the Orientation and > Mobility > Evaluation team in assessing the intersection. > > table with 2 columns and 4 rows > APS Requests > Points > 1 request > 1 > 2 recent documented requests > 2 > 3 or more recent, documented requests > 3-4 > table end > > B) Pedestrian Usage > Blind pedestrians share many characteristics with the sighted population in > that they go to public > places, business, social, educational and medical facilities. At the same > time they have > special needs. For example, they may have a greater reliance on public > transportation than > sighted persons. Audible signals should be placed with the view of > improving mobility of blind > persons and making more facilities accessible to them. Proximity of signals > to these facilities > may assure a greater degree of utilization. > list of 1 items > 1. > Proximity to facilities for people who are blind or visually impaired: > This includes the > Department of Rehabilitation, Social Security offices, Valley Center for > the Blind and > other similar facilities. Special consideration may be given to senior > citizens complexes > or public housing facilities that have one or more blind or visually > impaired persons in > residence. Points are assigned on the basis of blocks or distance (1 block > equals 400 > feet) from proposed APS site to subject facility. The closer the two are, > the more points > are assigned. > list end > > table with 2 columns and 6 rows > Proximity > Points > 4 to 6 blocks > 2 > 3 blocks > 4 > 2 blocks > 6 > 1 block > 8 > At subject facility > 10 > table end > > 2. Proximity to key facilities utilized by all pedestrians (blind and > sighted.): This includes > medical, educational, social, recreational, shopping, commercial, business, > public and > governmental facilities. Points are assigned on the basis of blocks or > distance (1 block > equals 400 feet) from proposed APS site to subject facility. In case of > multiple facilities, > points will be assigned on the basis of the closest facility. > > table with 2 columns and 6 rows > Proximity > Points > 4 to 6 blocks > 1 > 3 blocks > 2 > 2 blocks > 3 > 1 block > 4 > At subject facility > 5 > table end > > 3. Access to public transit: Because blind and visually impaired persons > rely heavily upon > public transportation (bus or trolley), special consideration will be given > to those > proposed APS sites that have heavy general use, serves any of the > facilities indicated > above (Ref. B-1 and B-2), or serves as a transfer point and serves 2 or > more transit > routes within a one-block walking distance. > list of 1 items > a) > Number of transit stops and/or transit routes within one block of proposed > audible > signal site. > list end > > table with 2 columns and 6 rows > Number of Routes and Stops > Points > 1 – 2 routes and 1 stop > 1 > 3 or more routes and 1 stop > 2 > 1 – 2 routes and 2 stops > 3 > 3 or more routes and 2 stops > 4 > 2 or more routes and more than 2 stops > 5 > table end > > b) Passenger usage is based upon the total passengers boarding and > debarking each > day at a transit stop or transfer point within a one-block walking > distance. > > table with 2 columns and 7 rows > Passengers Boarding and Debarking Each Day > Points > 0 – 49 > 0 > 50-149 > 1 > 150-249 > 2 > 250-499 > 3 > 500-999 > 4 > 1,000 and over > 5 > table end > > C) Traffic Conditions > Vehicle volumes, traffic distribution, traffic congestion and flow > characteristics may assist or > impede the blind traveler in crossing an intersection. Blind pedestrians > can function best when > crossing signalized intersections that are at right angles with a moderate > but steady flow of > traffic through the intersection on each leg and with a minimum of turning > movements (right or > left turns). Traffic that stops on each leg during each signal cycle is > particularly helpful. Traffic > that is either light, or very heavy, or erratic in its flow makes it > difficult for the blind traveler to > pick up audible clues as to whether the light is red or green. In such > cases, audible signals will > assist in determining when it is possible to cross the street. Points may > be assigned by the > evaluation team based upon their perception of the relative importance of > each of these factors > (which are not necessarily dependent upon the total average daily traffic). > Candidate locations > may score up to a maximum of 5 points for each of the following factors > depending upon overall > traffic distribution. > > table with 3 columns and 6 rows > Heavy Traffic Flow > Vehicles per hour > Points > Approach traffic on all legs is in excess of 2,000 vehicles per hour during > any peak hour. > 2,000 – 2,999 > 1 > Approach traffic on all legs is in excess of 2,000 vehicles per hour during > any peak hour. > 3,000 – 3,999 > 2 > Approach traffic on all legs is in excess of 2,000 vehicles per hour during > any peak hour. > 4,000 – 4,999 > 3 > Approach traffic on all legs is in excess of 2,000 vehicles per hour during > any peak hour. > 5,000 – 5,999 > 4 > Approach traffic on all legs is in excess of 2,000 vehicles per hour during > any peak hour. > 6,000 and over > 5 > table end > > table with 3 columns and 7 rows > Off Peak Traffic Presence Direction 1 > Points > At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, > expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. > Constant (≥ 90%) > 0 > At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, > expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. > Heavy (70-80%) > 1 > At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, > expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. > Moderate (50-60%) > 2 > At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, > expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. > Light (30-40%) > 3 > At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, > expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. > Occasional (<30%) > 4 > At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, > expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. > None (no through lanes to create surge noise. > 5 > table end > > table with 3 columns and 7 rows > Off Peak Traffic Presence > Direction 2 > Points > At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, > expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. > Constant (≥ 90%) > 0 > At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, > expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. > Heavy (70-80%) > 1 > At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, > expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. > Moderate (50-60%) > 2 > At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, > expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. > Light (30-40%) > 3 > At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, > expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. > Occasional (<30%) > 4 > At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, > expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. > None (no through lanes to create surge noise. > 5 > table end > > E.) Mobility Evaluation > Each intersection being considered for audible signals should be evaluated > by a certified > orientation and mobility specialist. Based on the judgment of the O-M > specialist and the > evaluation team, additional points may be assigned based on observed or > special conditions not > adequately covered by any of the previous factors. This may include a heavy > right-turn volume, > right-turn island, right-turn signals, limited cone of “visibility”, etc. > Points > Mobility and miscellaneous factors > 0-15 > Signals without Pedestrian Actuations > Signalized intersections without pedestrian actuations may be considered > for evaluation under > this priority system, provided the following conditions are met: > list of 3 items > 1. > There must be a demonstrated problem or need that can be alleviated by the > installation of an audible signal in the form of a request from an > individual or group > that would use the audible signal. > 2. > The evaluation team must unanimously concur with the need. > 3. > Appropriate pedestrian actuation buttons and circuits must be provided as > part of the > APS installation. > list end > Accessible Signals at New Signal Installations > Accessible signals will be considered for new signal installation if it is > determined that > installation is warranted by the criteria established above. > Public Notice of Installation of Accessible Signals > The City recognizes that the installation of an APS may be of interest to > the community, > especially residents in the immediate vicinity of the candidate > intersection. In addition, research > has indicated that APS are more effectively used by blind and visually > impaired pedestrians if > they have notice of its location and a basic understanding of the type of > signal installed. > Accordingly, the Director of Public Works will provide a notice to > neighbors in a 350 feet radius > from the intersection of the proposed installation of an APS at that site, > and invite concerned > citizens to contact him in writing. In addition, the Department of Public > Works will issue press > releases and informing the public and organizations serving people with > disabilities, especially > visual impairments, of type and location of proposed and installed APS. > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b75205%40gmail.com > From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov Thu Mar 12 23:33:58 2009 From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 18:33:58 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] In-house litigation attorney position - Ref#17015731 Message-ID: Flagstar Bank’s Legal Department is seeking a litigation attorney in its Bellevue, Washington location. Flagstar Bank, FSB (FBC), publicly traded on the NYSE, is one of the nation’s largest mortgage lenders with banking branches in the Midwest and Southeast. RESPONSIBILITIES: *Managing and monitoring litigation, responding to discovery, reviewing pleadings, preparing for trial, and investigating issues pertaining to litigation; *Working closely with team members; *Retaining and working with outside counsel; *Initiating litigation and preparing and reviewing pleadings; *Working with outside investigators in initiating and/or defending litigation; *Interacting with other departments of the bank; *Supervising paralegals and other support staff. QUALIFICATIONS: *Unquestionable moral and ethical integrity; *Minimum of 4-6 years of solid litigation experience and/or in-house litigation experience performing and/or supervising full range of tasks from case inception through discovery process, trial, post-trial proceedings, and appeals; *Demonstrated ability to independently see projects through from inception to completion; *E-discovery case management experience; *Strong sense of accountability, taking ownership over projects and responsibilities and resolving issues proactively; *High level of accuracy, attention to detail, and excellent proofreading skills required; *Excellent oral and written communication skills, including the ability to communicate detailed and complex information to others; *Strong organizational and time management skills, including the ability to organize self and others; *Ability to manage multiple priorities and adjust to changing priorities in a professional manner; *Ability to work efficiently with attorneys and support staff located throughout the country; *Ability to work independently and within a team environment; *Strong service orientation, and an ability to establish and maintain effective working relationships with peers, other Bank departments, Bank management, and outside business partners; *Ability to work well under pressure, facilitate solutions, and meet deadlines and milestones. HOW TO APPLY Please apply on-line by visiting the Careers at Flagstar link at http://www.flagstar.com Flagstar Bank is an Equal Opportunity Employer ________________________________________ View and comment online: https://www.bigtent.com/group/forum/message/17015731 HINT: When replying by email, please do not include the original message. From bspiry at comcast.net Fri Mar 13 02:22:06 2009 From: bspiry at comcast.net (Bill Spiry) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 19:22:06 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target In-Reply-To: <547789.45557.qm@web36707.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <001401c9a189$3fa59ee0$bef0dca0$@net> <4E8742A18776454A880746AD18B966F5@colorado0f48f8> <5F60EFF2D5FD48A6A428F280C2AE8727@labarre> <547789.45557.qm@web36707.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <002e01c9a382$8265dec0$87319c40$@net> What kind of proposed resolution is involved here? Will it result in LSAC providing accessible materials in the immediate future?? -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of M BG Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2009 11:38 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target Thank you for the update.  What is the estimated time that this process it expected to take and at what point do you feel any claimants will be notified of disbursement? ________________________________ From: Scott C. LaBarre To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 3:35:26 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target Yes. It had been postponed and was rescheduled to yesterday.  Our local counsel attended the hearing and this afternoon Judge Patel issued an order granting final approval of the settlement and dismissing the claims.  The only remaining matter is that we are waiting for an opinion and ruling on attorneys fees. Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. LaBarre Law Offices P.C. 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 Denver, Colorado 80222 303 504-5979 (voice) 303 757-3640 (fax) slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) www.labarrelaw.com (website) CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carrie Ann Lucas" To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 1:58 PM Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > I think the final fairness hearing was supposed to happen yesterday.  Does > anyone know if it happened, and if so, what were the results? > > Carrie Ann Lucas > Director Center for Rights of Parents with Disabilities > Colorado Cross-Disability Coalition > 655 Broadway, Suite 775 > Denver, CO 80203 > 303.839.1775 (main and messages) > 303.839.0015 (direct and TTY) > 303.839.1782 (facsimile) > 800.817.1435 (main and messages) > 877.267.1621 (direct and TTY) > www.ccdconline.org > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/slabarre%40labarre law.com > _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/my5thattempt%40yah oo.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/bspiry%40comcast.n et From keith-vick at msn.com Thu Mar 12 23:42:37 2009 From: keith-vick at msn.com (Keith Vick) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 19:42:37 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Computer cursor - cross hair program In-Reply-To: <20090312104747.51092C51F4@mail1-backupmx.mn2.visi.com> References: <20090312104747.51092C51F4@mail1-backupmx.mn2.visi.com> Message-ID: Hi All, For those of us that have a narrow field of vision and don't necessarily require screen readers or enlarged text, I can recommend a Crosshair program by Michael Lin. The link is below. I has helped me tremendously. http://www.mlin.net/CrossHair.shtml Thanks, Keith Vick From jsorozco at gmail.com Fri Mar 13 00:19:38 2009 From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 20:19:38 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. lsac complaint In-Reply-To: <20090311175307.GE58098@yumi.bluecherry.net> Message-ID: <525537CFD0354718BFCFA328748D7DBD@Rufus> What standard was used to determine the accessibility of the web site? Joe Orozco -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of T. Joseph Carter Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2009 1:53 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. lsac complaint Hence the reason for the lawsuit. Actually, you may be able to send them to Scott if he is representing the NFB on this issue for use as evidence demonstrating that LSAC CAN make the documents accessible, but has chosen not to. I say may, because it seems like Copyright could not be a shield to prevent the court from seeing that the documents could be made accessible without substantial changes, if LSAC were to take minimal effort. I'd suggest asking someone qualified, as I'm 0L. ;) Joseph On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 01:45:10PM -0500, James Pepper wrote: >Well no wonder nothing becomes accessible. Stay with public domain >documents then. Oh well. > >James _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jsoroz co%40gmail.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3890 (20090226) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3890 (20090226) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From rumpole at roadrunner.com Thu Mar 12 21:44:31 2009 From: rumpole at roadrunner.com (Ross Doerr) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 17:44:31 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] College textbooks question References: <20090312104747.51092C51F4@mail1-backupmx.mn2.visi.com> Message-ID: <1BF7BC580A6848458EC7F6073968C91C@Rosslaptop> Hello Angie: thank you for the reference. I have been looking through the Instructional Materials Accessibility Act of 2002 provisions and am not finding the university level applicability I was hoping for, but it is nice to know that One state has takent he plunge in that direction. I will look into it. Thank you. Ross A. Doerr Esq. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Angie Matney" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Thursday, March 12, 2009 6:45 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] College textbooks question > Hi Ross, > > I don't remember the case you're referring to, but I think there is a New > York law concerning accessibility of post-secondary texts. The Cornell > disability services person mentioned it to me when I was trying to decide > where to go to law school. He > made it sound as though publishers must provide electronic copies if they > are requiested. > > Sorry I don't know more about this. > > Angie > > > > On Wed, 11 Mar 2009 18:21:47 -0400, Ross Doerr wrote: > >>Recently there was a case noted on this list that involved college level >>textbooks being in accessible format. >>If anyone recalls that case, could you please contact me off list? >>Any comments regarding college level textbook accessibility would be >>welcome as well. > >>Ross Doerr Esq. >>rumpole at roadrunner.com >>_______________________________________________ >>blindlaw mailing list >>blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>blindlaw: >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie%40mpmail.net > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rumpole%40adelphia.net From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov Thu Mar 12 22:33:56 2009 From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 17:33:56 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Puget Sound Clean Air Agency Posting - Ref#17029699 Message-ID: Puget Sound Clean Air Agency has an opening for an environmental/regulatory affairs attorney. http://www.pscleanair.org/about/employment.aspx From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Fri Mar 13 05:16:53 2009 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 22:16:53 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Fw: Any information is appreciated. In-Reply-To: <644B1987D48948378D3378088F70A3EA@deepa8b7ac5f2a> References: <644B1987D48948378D3378088F70A3EA@deepa8b7ac5f2a> Message-ID: In most counties there are legal aid programs that will assist low income people with family court matters. this party can also contact the county bar association. In California in the larger counties the county bar associations maintain a lawyer referral service where for a fee of about $30 here in Fresno County a person can get a consultation with a lawyer specializing in that particular area of law. After the consultation the party can negotiate arrangements with the lawyer if they are able to take a particular case. Unless a person has specialized training in law it is not recommended that a person represent themselves in a serious family matter such as abuse allegations and child custody. This is much different than something that is uncontested where there is essentially no dispute in question. While I do not specialize in working with family matters you can contact me off list for general information and I can research referrals for these resources. Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal 1237 P Street Fresno ca 93721 559-266-9237 ----- Original Message ----- From: "deepa goraya" To: "blindlaw" Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2009 3:29 PM Subject: [blindlaw] Fw: Any information is appreciated. > If anyone has any helpful info, please respond. > > Deepa > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Aziza C" > To: "David McClain" ; "deepa goraya" ; > "Frances Carrillo" ; "Greg Benavidez" > ; "Keyson, Terry" ; "Shane > Johnson" ; "slabarre" > > Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 10:10 PM > Subject: Any information is appreciated. > > >> Hi Everyone, >> Most of you know that my sister is going through an intense child >> custody battle with her X-husband. Her previous lawyer was charging >> her massive fees that he could never justify, and so she dismissed him >> from the case. She has been trying to locate another legal >> representative, and has been attempting to proceed with the case on >> her own. This has resulted in paperwork being filled out incorrectly, >> and court orders being sent to the wrong people. My sister really >> doesn't know how to represent herself. It has recently gotten worse >> when her x-husband sent out a complaint aledging that the accusations >> of abuse that were he was charged with almost ten years ago were >> untrue. My other sister and I were witnesses to this physical abuse, >> which he was charged with. He also stated that my sister abducted he >> child when my family relocated to Texas after the death of my father. >> He claims that my family told my nephew that his father left my >> sister for another woman, and that has been the reason for the >> disfunctional father son relationship. My nephew has complained about >> being physically abused while at his father's house, and I have been >> one of the people who filed a report to the police on one such >> occasion. My sister really needs assstance in how to respond to such >> fabrications, and how to proceed. She is driving herself crazy, and >> allowing her emotions to take over in court, which isn't helping her >> at all. >> If anyone has any information about lawyers in the Ventura/Oxnard Ca >> area that might be able to help her, please email me as soon as >> possible. >> Thank you. >> Aziza > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net From roddj12 at hotmail.com Fri Mar 13 06:31:57 2009 From: roddj12 at hotmail.com (Rod Alcidonis) Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 02:31:57 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. lsac complaint References: <001401c9a189$3fa59ee0$bef0dca0$@net> <000c01c9a2b5$35c39440$a14abcc0$@net> Message-ID: Well, academically speaking, the law suit could have prayed for a Temporary Restraining Order, or a preliminary Injunction against the LSAC for folks like you. Basically enjoined the LSAC from administering the exam until they make the changes. The only difficulty with that I think justifies the reason they probably did not pray for such a relief is that such a measure would cause too much harm to the public, I.E, the thousands of law students and schools who rely on the exam to make admissions decisions. Such an order while it would have forced the LSAC to make the changes much faster, it would have unreasonably halted the system for some times. If it were a class action with thousands of members, it probably would have been easier to argue, I think. Whether not passing an exam for the first time is considered irreparable harm is another question -- you can still make the argument under these circumstances. Rod Alcidonis Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009. Roger Williams University School of Law 10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 Bristol, RI 02809 Cell: 718-704-4651 Home: 401-824-8685 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Spiry" To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2009 9:52 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. lsac complaint I understand. What might be done to getLSAC to authorize use of this material as an accessible alternative to what they have to offer? I know NFB is sueing them, but in the mean time that leaves folks like me who don't have the Adobe skills you have, and facing the LSAT soon without accessible matter. Any ideas or suggestions? Thanks. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of James Pepper Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 10:43 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. lsac complaint Well Bill the content is copyrighted by LSAC so I am not sure I can send this to you. Perhaps some on this list can give that advice. I laid it out properly. James On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 9:05 AM, Bill Spiry wrote: > I would appreciate receiving this as well. Thanks. > bspiry at comcast.net > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of James Pepper > Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 1:46 AM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. lsac complaint > > Scott: I laid out the first section of the LSAT to be accessible and I > can > send you the files if you would like to see it. Also I made the form that > they use accessible so the blind can fill out the test without assistance. > This works with JAWS and Window Eyes and a combination of Adobe's Read out > Loud and Microsoft Narrator. My process works and if you need references > at > NFB, AFB and the AAPD I can send them to you. > > It took a while to figure out how they made thier pdfs and I know where > they > are making their mistakes. I can correct this problem. These PDFs are made > to work natively with JAWS and Adobe Reader and the other screen readers > without making any adjustments. They work with the default settings in > Adobe Reader. > > Also the forms can be digitally signed and saved and all that fancy stuff > that you expect with Adobe Acrobat Professional can be done with > Adobe Reader, versions 8 or 9 which is the free download from Adobe.com. > So > we can make the LSAT accessible to anyone with a PC running Windows XP Or > VIsta without any change of settings. This means the PC can be there for > the sighted and the blind, with equal access for all. > > Also since I labeled everything, it will be a lot quicker for you to fill > out this test! > > Sincerely, > > James G. Pepper > > > > On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 4:32 PM, Scott C. LaBarre > wrote: > > > Below I am sharing the complaint that we filed today in California Court. > > ************** > > LaurEnce W. paradis (California Bar No. 122336) > > > > Anna levine (California Bar No. 227881) > > > > Disability Rights Advocates > > > > 2001 Center Street, Third Floor > > > > Berkeley, California 94704 > > > > Telephone: (510) 665-8644 > > > > Facsimile: (510) 665-8511 > > > > TTY: (510) 665-8716 > > > > > > > > SCOTT LABARRE (to seek pro hac vice admission) > > > > LABARRE LAW OFFICES, P.C. > > > > 1660 S. Albion Street, Ste 918 > > > > Denver, Colo 80222 > > > > Telephone: (303) 504-5979 > > > > Fax: (303) 757-3640 > > > > > > > > DANIEL F. GOLDSTEIN (to seek pro hac vice admission) > > > > MEHGAN Sidhu (to seek pro hac vice admission) > > > > Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP > > > > 120 E. Baltimore St., Suite 1700 > > > > Baltimore, MD 21202 > > > > Telephone: (410) 962-1030 > > > > Fax: (410) 385-0869 > > > > > > > > SUPERIOR COURT OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA > > COUNTY OF ALAMEDA > > > > > > > > National Federation of the Blind, the National Federation of the > Blind > > of CALIFORNIA, and DEEPA GORAYA, > > > > > > > > Plaintiffs, > > > > v. > > > > LAW SCHOOL ADMISSION COUNCIL, INC., > > > > Defendant. > > > > > > > > Case No.: > > > > > > > > > > > > COMPLAINT FOR INJUNCTIVE AND DECLARATORY RELIEF FOR VIOLATIONS OF > THE > > CALIFORNIA DISABLED PERSONS ACT AND UNRUH CIVIL RIGHTS ACT > > > > > > > > > > INTRODUCTION > > > > Plaintiffs complain of Defendant and allege herein as follows: > > > > 1. This action, brought by the National Federation of the Blind, > > the National Federation of the Blind of California, and Deepa Goraya, > seeks > > to put an end to civil rights violations committed by defendant Law > School > > Admissions Council (hereafter "LSAC") against blind persons seeking to > take > > the LSAT exam and apply to law schools. Plaintiff Deepa Goraya, a blind > law > > school applicant in California, has been and is being denied equal access > to > > the accommodations, advantages, and facilities LSAC provides its > > non-disabled customers through http://www.lsac.org (hereafter "lsac.org" > > and "the website"). Plaintiffs National Federation of the Blind and the > > National Federation of the Blind of California have members who are > > similarly denied full and equal access to such accommodations, advantages > > and facilities. Lsac.org is currently the only place online where > > prospective law students can register for the Law School Admissions Test > > ("LSAT"), apply to law schools, and obtain official LSAT test preparation > > materials and information. Lsac.org contains multiple access barriers > that > > make it difficult if not impossible for blind law school applicants and > LSAT > > test takers to use the website and to obtain practice materials without > > sighted assistance. LSAC thus excludes the blind, including Ms. Goraya, > > from full and equal access to the accommodations, advantages, facilities, > > and privileges of lsac.org. > > > > JURISDICTION > > > > 2. This is a civil action under California's Disabled Persons Act > > (Cal. Civ. Code §§ 54, et seq.) and the Unruh Civil Rights Act (Cal. Civ. > > Code §§ 51, et seq.) and for declaratory relief. This Court has > > jurisdiction over the claims alleged herein pursuant to California Civil > > Code §§ 54, et seq. and California Civil Code §§ 51, et seq. and > California > > Code of Civil Procedure section 1060. > > > > 3. This Court has jurisdiction over LSAC because LSAC is a > > corporation authorized to do business in California and LSAC conducts > > substantial business in California. LSAC owns, maintains and operates its > > website, lsac.org, throughout California and in Alameda County. > > > > > > > > VENUE > > > > 4. Venue is proper in Alameda County because liability arises in > > part in Alameda County, where the National Federation of the Blind of > > California has its headquarters. LSAC has been and is committing the > acts > > alleged herein in Alameda County, has been and is violating the rights of > > patrons in Alameda County, and has been and is causing injury to patrons > in > > Alameda County. > > > > 5. Plaintiff Goraya is a California citizen and has experienced > > injury in California as a result of LSAC's inaccessible website and > practice > > materials. > > > > PARTIES > > > > 6. Plaintiff the National Federation of the Blind (hereafter > "NFB") > > is a national advocacy organization. The NFB, the oldest and largest > > national organization of blind persons, is a non-profit corporation duly > > organized under the laws of the District of Columbia with its principal > > place of business in Baltimore, Maryland. It has affiliates in all 50 > > states (including California) as well as Washington, D.C. and Puerto > Rico. > > The vast majority of the approximately 50,000 members are blind persons. > > The NFB is widely recognized by the public, Congress, executive agencies > of > > government and the courts as a collective and representative voice on > behalf > > of blind Americans and their families. The purpose of the NFB is to > promote > > the general welfare of the blind by (1) assisting the blind in their > efforts > > to integrate themselves into society on terms of equality and (2) > removing > > barriers and changing social attitudes, stereotypes and mistaken beliefs > > that sighted and blind persons hold concerning the limitations created by > > blindness resulting in the denial of opportunity to blind persons in > > virtually every sphere of life. The NFB and many of its members have > long > > been actively involved in promoting adaptive technology for the blind, so > > that blind persons can live and work independently in today's > > technology-dependent world. NFB members reside throughout the United > > States, including the state of California, and many of its members would > use > > the services of lsac.org if this website is made independently usable by > > the blind. > > > > 7. Plaintiff the National Federation of the Blind of California > > (hereafter "NFB of California") is a state affiliate of the National > > Federation of the Blind. NFB of California is a California corporation > and > > carries out NFB's objectives at the state level. It has local chapters > > throughout California, including Alameda County, and has its headquarters > in > > Fremont, California, in Alameda County. > > > > 8. Plaintiff Goraya is a member of the NFB and the NFB of > > California. She is blind and has been denied full and equal access to > the > > accommodations, advantages, facilities and privileges of lsac.org. > > > > 9. Defendant LSAC, is a non-profit corporation > > established to coordinate, facilitate, and enhance the law school > admissions > > process. LSAC owns, operates and/or maintains the website lsac.com, a > > public accommodation. Plaintiffs seek access to the services provided by > > LSAC in California through lsac.org. > > > > FACTS > > > > 10. Lsac.org is owned, controlled and/or operated by LSAC. > Lsac.org > > is a public accommodation that offers its visitors comprehensive services > > for applying to law school. The website functions as the official > > destination for guiding prospective law school applicants through the > > fundamental steps of applying to law school. Among its services, > lsac.orgoffers information about the LSAT and law school application > process, and > > extensive LSAT preparation materials and resources. Lsac.org also serves > as > > the exclusive online means for registering for the LSAT and applying to > > ABA-accredited law schools. > > > > 11. According to the website, lsac.org's online services enable > > prospective law students to do the following, among other things: > > > > a.. Register for the LSAT > > b.. Register for the LSDAS (Law School Data Assembly Service) > > c.. Purchase publications and test preparation materials > > d.. Have access to electronic applications for all ABA-approved law > > schools > > e.. Apply online to law schools > > f.. Register for law school forums > > g.. Have 24-hour file access > > 12. In addition to facilitating the LSAT and law school application > > processes, a significant portion of the lsac.org website is devoted to > > preparing students to take the LSAT. Among the services offered in that > > regard are online information guides that explain how to prepare for the > > LSAT and free, downloadable sample practice tests and test questions. > > Lsac.org also offers for a fee an online LSAT practice test tool and the > > opportunity to purchase more than 40 official LSAT practice tests. > > > > 13. While sighted visitors to lsac.org can easily obtain the benefits > and > > advantages offered by the website, blind individuals, including Ms. > Goraya, > > have been and are being denied access to lsac.org due to LSAC's failure > > and refusal to remove access barriers to lsac.org. Specifically, blind > > visitors to the website, including Ms. Goraya, cannot independently apply > to > > law school, register for the LSAT, or obtain in an accessible format the > > LSAT preparation materials and practice tests available through lsac.org > . > > > > 14. The blind access websites by using keyboards in conjunction > with > > screen-reading software. This software vocalizes or conveys to a > refreshable > > Braille display information that appears visually on a computer screen. > > Unless websites are designed to allow for use in this manner, blind > persons > > are unable to fully access the internet websites and the information, > > products and services contained therein. > > > > 15. There are well-established guidelines for making websites > > accessible to the blind. These guidelines have been in place for at > least > > several years and have been followed successfully by other public > > accommodations in making their online services accessible. The Web > > Accessibility Initiative (WAI), a project of the World Wide Web > Consortium, > > which is the leading standards organization for the Web, has developed > > guidelines for making information that is reached via the internet > > accessible. The federal government has also promulgated accessibility > > standards under Section 508 of the Rehabilitation Act. These guidelines > > have long been readily available via the internet so that any public > > accommodation could easily secure the necessary information. > > > > 16. Lsac.org contains a variety of access barriers that prevent > free > > and full use by blind persons using keyboards and screen reading > software. > > These barriers include but are not limited to: lack of or improperly > > labeled form controls; faulty keyboard navigation; and use of tables and > > charts that are not formatted for accessibility. Form controls allow > users > > to input data on online forms and applications. These controls must be > > coded and labeled to allow screen-access software to detect and vocalize > the > > requested information. Keyboard navigation refers to the ability to > > successfully navigate a website using keyboard commands, as opposed to > > requiring a mouse as the exclusive means for navigation of the site. > > Further, charts and tables must be formatted to work with screen-access > > software. Much of the lsac.org website, and in particular the online > law > > school application and LSAT registration sections of the website, lack > these > > fundamental accessibility components. As a result, blind visitors to the > > website cannot independently use those and other critical features. > > > > 17. Lsac.org's test preparation materials that are available on the > > website in Adobe Portable Document (PDF) format, are not properly > "tagged." > > This means that the headings, paragraphs, tables, image descriptions and > > form controls are not easily discernable to screen-reading software. As > a > > result, these materials are cumbersome, if not impossible, for a blind > > visitor to navigate. > > > > 18. Finally, lsac.org fails to offer LSAT practice tests, > available > > as part of its test preparation services, in formats accessible to the > > blind. While the sighted can easily use the website to obtain more than > 40 > > formerly administered LSAT practice tests, the website fails to offer the > > opportunity to purchase these practice materials in formats accessible to > > the blind, such as Braille or an accessible electronic format. > > > > 19. As a result of lsac.org's accessibility barriers, blind law > > school applicants, including Ms. Goraya, must go over extraordinary > hurdles > > to register and prepare for the LSAT and to apply to law school compared > to > > their sighted counterparts. After unsuccessfully attempting to use > > lsac.org independently to register for the LSAT and fill out her law > > school applications, for example, Plaintiff Goraya was forced to select > and > > rely upon a reader for over 50 hours simply to read aloud the content of > the > > website and complete her law school applications. Moreover, none of the > > LSAT practice materials, which include previously administered versions > of > > the test, were available to her in accessible electronic formats. > Lsac.org > > thus contains numerous access barriers which deny full and equal access > to > > Plaintiff, who would otherwise use the accommodations, advantages, and > > facilities of lsac.org. > > > > 20. On December 10, 2008, Plaintiff National Federation of the > Blind > > notified LSAC of the unlawful accessibility barriers on its website. > LSAC > > responded by setting up and then canceling a meeting with the NFB. On > > January 22, 2009, the NFB notified LSAC that it intended to pursue legal > > action against LSAC for the unlawful barriers on its website. > > > > FIRST CAUSE OF ACTION > > > > (Violation of Cal. Civ. Code §§ 54, et seq. - the Disabled Persons Act) > > > > 21. The allegations contained in the previous paragraphs are > > incorporated by reference. > > > > 22. The Disabled Persons Act ("DPA") requires that individuals with > > disabilities have "full and equal access, as other members of the general > > public, to accommodations, advantages, facilities, . . . and other places > to > > which the general public is invited, subject only to the conditions and > > limitations established by law, or state or federal regulation, and > > applicable alike to all persons." Cal. Civ. Code 54.1(a)(1). > > > > 23. Lsac.org, which is owned, operated and/or maintained by LSAC, > is > > an > > > > accommodation, advantage, facility and/or place to which the general > public > > is invited, as those terms are used in Cal. Civ. Code § 54.1(a)(1). > > > > 24. Defendant's conduct alleged herein violates the DPA, including > > Cal. Civ. Code § 54.1(a)(1), by denying the Plaintiffs full and equal > access > > to the accommodations, advantages and facilities of lsac.org. > > > > 25. As a result of Defendant's conduct, the NFB, the NFB of > > California, and Ms. Goraya are entitled to injunctive relief requiring > > Defendant to make lsac.org accessible to blind individuals, and to make > > the LSAT test practice materials offered to lsac.org patrons available > to > > blind people in an accessible format. > > > > SECOND CAUSE OF ACTION > > > > (Violation of Cal.Civ. Code §§ 51, et seq. - The Unruh Act) > > > > 26. The allegations contained in the previous paragraphs are > > incorporated by reference. > > > > 27. California's Unruh Act requires that individuals with > > disabilities have "full and equal accommodations, advantages, facilities, > > privileges or services in all business establishments of every kind > > whatsoever." Cal. Civ. Code § 51(b). > > > > 28. LSAC and Lsac.org are business establishments as that term is > > used in Cal. Civ. Code § 51(b) and lsac.org is an accommodation, > > advantage, facility, privilege and service of LSAC. > > > > 29. Defendant's conduct alleged herein violates the Unruh Act, > > including Cal. Civ. Code § 51(b), by denying Plaintiffs the full and > equal > > accommodations, advantages, facilities, privileges or services of LSAC > and > > lsac.org. > > > > 30. Defendant violated the Unruh Act intentionally and/or with > > deliberate indifference to the likelihood that it was violating the > rights > > of blind people and/or Defendant's violations were so intuitive or > obvious > > that noncompliance could not be other than intentional. > > > > 31. As a result of Defendant's conduct, the NFB, the NFB of > > California, and Ms. Goraya are entitled to injunctive relief requiring > > Defendant to make lsac.org accessible to blind individuals, and to make > > the LSAT test practice materials offered to lsac.org patrons available > to > > blind people in an accessible format. > > > > > > > > THIRD CAUSE OF ACTION > > > > (Declaratory Relief, Cal. Civ. Proc. § 1060 ) > > > > 32. The allegations contained in the previous paragraphs are > > incorporated by reference. > > > > 33. On information and belief, Defendants contend that they may > > lawfully deny Plaintiffs access to their website and its contents. > > Plaintiffs contend that lsac.org, which LSAC owns, operates, and/or > > controls, must provide blind patrons access to its website and website > > contents under California Civil Code §§ 54, et seq. and California Civil > > Code §§ 51, et seq., which prohibit discrimination against the blind. > > > > 34. A judicial declaration is necessary and appropriate at this > time > > in order that each of the parties may know their respective rights and > > duties and act accordingly. > > > > WHEREFORE, Plaintiffs request relief as set forth below. > > > > RELIEF REQUESTED > > > > WHEREFORE, Plaintiffs pray for judgment as follows: > > > > 1. An order enjoining LSAC from violating California > > Civil Code §§ 51, et seq. and §§ 54, et seq.; > > > > 2. A declaration that LSAC is owning, maintaining > and/or > > operating lsac.org in a manner which discriminates against the blind and > > which fails to provide access for persons with disabilities as required > by > > law; > > > > 3. Plaintiffs' reasonable attorneys' fees and costs as > > authorized by California California Civil Code §§ 54, et seq., California > > Civil Code §§ 51, et seq., and pursuant to California Code of Civil > > Procedure § 1021.5. > > > > 4. Such other and further relief as the Court deems > just > > and proper. > > > > > > > > DATED: > > DISABILITY RIGHTS ADVOCATES > > > > > > > > > By: > > ____________________________ > > > > > > Laurence W. Paradis > > > > > > > > > > > > Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. > > > > LaBarre Law Offices P.C. > > 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 > > Denver, Colorado 80222 > > 303 504-5979 (voice) > > 303 757-3640 (fax) > > slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) > > www.labarrelaw.com (website) > > > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and > > privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may > not > > read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this > message > > in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or > > slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. > This > > message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic > > Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. > > _______________________________________________ > > blindlaw mailing list > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > blindlaw: > > > > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b75205%40gmail.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/bspiry%40comcast.n > et > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b75205%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/bspiry%40comcast.n et _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail.com From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Fri Mar 13 07:03:55 2009 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 00:03:55 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] comments needed regarding policy for audiblepedestrian signals In-Reply-To: References: <46F35C9C59EA4BEA85A215EF8960813E@spike> Message-ID: <52F8ED176A924BB894D6663D0E67CFE0@spike> thanks. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Pepper" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Thursday, March 12, 2009 10:25 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] comments needed regarding policy for audiblepedestrian signals > Well if you are in London they have a lot of experience with this type of > thing. > > Well what they should be doing is placing the raised warnings actually > into > the roads for the crosswalks but the law is specific in only providing a > visual contrast, which is just painting lines into the road. Here is the > ADAAG link: > http://www.access-board.gov/adaag/html/adaag.htm#4.29 > > There is a man living near me whose dog is not that good and he has to > spend > a long time figuring out if he can safely walk across the street. His dog > leads him diagonally across the street, it is a disaster! He wants to be > independent and refuses to talk about it, but his dog is not that good. > > Toronto and London have accessible traffic lights, they will have the data > on this type of thing. > > James Pepper > > > On Wed, Mar 11, 2009 at 7:21 AM, wrote: > >> The City of Fresno is proposing the policy shown below to evaluate the >> installation of audible traffic signals. As this is outside my expertise >> I >> would appreciate any comments regarding this document. Please feel free >> to >> contact me off list if needed. >> Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal >> 1237 P Street >> Fresno ca 93721 >> 559-266-9237 >> >> >> APS Policy-03-09-LP .pdf >> DRAFT ACCESSIBLE PEDESTRIAN SIGNALS (APS) >> INTERSECTION EVALUATION PROCEDURE >> BACKGROUND >> Accessible Pedestrian Signals (APS), also known as audible pedestrian >> signals, are devices >> that communicate information about pedestrian timing in nonvisual format >> such as audible >> tones, verbal messages, and/or vibrating surfaces. APS are used in >> conjunction with standard >> pedestrian activated traffic signals to provide the following information >> to pedestrians: >> list of 4 items >>  >> Existence of and location of the pedestrian pushbutton >>  >> Beginning of the pedestrian WALK interval >>  >> Direction of the crosswalk and location of the destination curb >>  >> Clearance signal interval >> list end >> They are used to assist blind and visually impaired persons and other >> persons with disabilities >> of all ages to cross at designated streets and intersections. >> PURPOSE >> The purpose of this evaluation policy is to set forth factors to be used >> by >> the City of Fresno’s >> Public Works Department, in cooperation with the City of Fresno’s >> Disability Advisory >> Commission, in developing a priority listing of signalized intersection >> candidates to be retrofitted >> with audible devices that will provide guidance for the blind community >> and >> visually impaired >> persons and other persons with disabilities of all ages to cross certain >> streets. >> POLICY >> It is the policy of the City Council that the retrofitting of existing >> traffic signals with APS shall be >> based on factors established herein and that such measurements and >> computations as may be >> required in determining priority rating of candidate locations shall be >> the >> responsibility of the >> Public Works Department. >> It should be noted that in special situations, an APS should not be >> installed because of the >> adverse affect it could have on pedestrian safety as a result of the >> overall traffic circulation >> pattern of an area, or unusual geometric conditions where an APS would >> not >> provide the safety >> benefits necessary for the blind or visually impaired individuals to >> cross >> a street. It should also >> be noted that some traffic signals cannot be retrofitted with APS without >> major costly >> modifications. Retrofitting of traffic signals with APS shall be subject >> to >> approval by the City >> Engineer. >> Important: APS are utilized to help blind and visually impaired travelers >> recognize when a >> WALK signal is operating in a given direction. An APS may enhance the >> safety of blind >> travelers in two ways: >> list of 1 items >> 1. >> Lessens the chance of a blind or visually impaired pedestrian misjudging >> when the walk >> phase is operating, thereby lessening the chance of accidentally crossing >> against a >> signal. >> list end >> list of 1 items >> 2. >> Helps blind and visually impaired pedestrians recognize immediately when >> the walk >> phase begins, permitting them to cross the street in a timely fashion, >> thereby lessening >> the chance of being in the intersection when the signal changes. >> list end >> However, it is important to recognize that the APS does not and cannot >> assure the blind and >> visually impaired pedestrians that there will be no potential traffic >> conflicts while crossing when >> the APS is operating. In particular, the blind and visually impaired >> pedestrians should be aware >> of at least four possible conflicts. >> list of 4 items >> 1. >> Vehicles may be still clearing the intersection when the APS comes on. >> 2. >> Vehicles may fail to stop for the red light. This is particularly common >> for motorists >> attempting to enter on a yellow light. >> 3. >> Motorists may stop and make a right turn on red while watching traffic on >> their left but >> may fail to notice pedestrians on their right. >> 4. >> Vehicles may have right and left turns on the same phase as the >> pedestrian. >> list end >> Because of these potential conflicts, it is important that the blind or >> visually impaired traveler >> exercise due caution for his or her well-being when crossing a street, >> whether or not it is >> equipped with APS. It is especially important that blind and visually >> impaired travelers be >> properly trained by certified orientation and mobility specialists in >> safe >> travel techniques on the >> public right-of-way. >> EVALUATION PROCEDURE (See attached “Evaluation Form.”) >> The following basic considerations and evaluation factors shall be >> utilized >> to determine whether >> a location is eligible to be a candidate for APS and to determine its >> relative position on the >> priority list. Evaluation and scoring of factors will be conducted by an >> evaluation team consisting >> of a certified orientation-mobility specialist, a visually impaired/blind >> traveler and a traffic >> engineer. Candidate locations shall be requested by the City of Fresno >> Disability Advisory >> Commission, its working groups, and constituent requests to the ADA >> Coordinator’s office. >> Candidate locations will be evaluated by means of the sample evaluation >> sheet attached. >> I. BASIC CONSIDERATIONS: >> APS normally will be considered for installation only if the following >> conditions are met: >> list of 5 items >> A. >> Intersections must be signalized. >> B. >> Signals must be susceptible to retrofitting. >> C. >> Signals should be equipped with pedestrian signal actuations. (See also >> section on >> “Signals without Pedestrian Actuations.”) >> D. >> Location must be suitable to installation of audible signals, in terms of >> surrounding land >> use, noise level and neighborhood acceptance. >> E. >> There must be a demonstrated need for the audible signals in the form of >> a >> request from >> an individual or group that would use the audible signal. >> list end >> II EVALUATION FACTORS >> The following factors shall be used to establish a priority listing for >> potential audible traffic signal >> candidates. Candidates will be arranged in priority order of those with >> the >> highest total points >> (100 points maximum) on top and then in descending order. The scoring of >> factors will be >> conducted by an evaluation team consistent of a mobility specialist, a >> visually impaired/blind >> traveler and a traffic engineer. If the request for an APS was made by a >> deaf blind individual, or >> by representative of an organization serving deaf blind pedestrians in >> order to improve access in >> their geographic area, the evaluation team may also include a deaf blind >> rater. The decision >> whether to include a deaf blind rater will be made by the City Engineer. >> A) Intersection Safety >> 1. Accident Records: Past pedestrian accident experience at the >> intersection will >> be used as an indication of potential safety performance. Points will be >> based on >> pedestrian accidents reported by the City of Fresno’s Police Department. >> >> table with 3 columns and 6 rows >> Pedestrian Accidents >> Period >> Points >> 1 >> 4 years >> 1 >> 2 >> 4 years >> 2 >> 3 >> 4 years >> 3 >> 4 >> 4 years >> 4 >> 5 or more >> 4 years >> 5 >> table end >> >> 2. Intersection Configuration: The number of approaches to an >> intersection >> and >> their geometric configuration (offset, skewed, etc.) affect the ability >> of >> the blind >> and visually impaired persons crossing the roadway. In particular, >> traffic >> at 3-leg >> intersections tends not to provide adequate audible clues for the blind >> to >> permit >> them to effectively judge the signal phase. >> >> table with 2 columns and 6 rows >> Configuration >> Points >> 4-leg right angle intersection >> 1 >> 3-leg T-intersection >> 2 >> 3 or 4-leg skewed intersection >> 3 >> 4-leg offset intersection >> 4 >> Other complex or multiple leg intersections >> 5 >> table end >> >> Note: Intersections with 5 or more legs will require special design. >> 3. Intersection Signalization: Pre-timed intersections are the easiest >> for >> blind >> pedestrian because the phase interval is constant and can be observed >> over >> time. Vehicle actuated intersections are more difficult, because the >> pedestrian >> interval may be of different lengths or skipped all together. >> Split-phasing >> can >> provide confusing auditory information, as a traveler may interpret >> left-turning >> vehicles as a parallel traffic surge. >> >> table with 2 columns and 5 rows >> Signalization >> Points >> Pre-timed >> 0 >> Vehicle Actuated >> 2 >> Split Phasing >> 4 >> Exclusive Ped Phase (for future reference) >> 5 >> table end >> >> 4. >> Width of Crossing: >> Wider streets are more difficult for blind travelers to cross. If >> each leg of the intersection has a different width, points will be >> assigned >> on the >> basis of the widest street on which pedestrians are permitted to cross. >> Crossing >> width will be measured at the point pedestrians normally cross the >> street. >> Islands >> and medians will be included in the total crossing distance even if they >> are >> equipped with separate pedestrian signal actuators. These points will be >> apportioned based upon the greatest width of the crossing at the subject >> intersection. >> >> table with 2 columns and 7 rows >> Width of Crossing >> Points >> 40 feet or less >> 0 >> 40 to 59 feet >> 1 >> 60 to 79 feet >> 2 >> 80 to 99 feet >> 3 >> 100 -119 >> 4 >> 120 feet or more >> 5 >> table end >> >> 5. Vehicle Speed: The speed of approaching traffic reflects the ability >> of >> approaching traffic to stop for a pedestrian clearing the intersection as >> the lights >> change. Audible signals help blind pedestrians get a timely start at the >> beginning >> of the walk phase, thereby permitting clearing the intersection in a >> timely >> manner. >> Points are assigned on the basis of the 85 percentile speed on the >> fastest >> approach leg. More points are assigned on the basis of higher speeds. >> >> table with 2 columns and 6 rows >> Speed Range >> Points >> 0 – 25 mph >> 1 >> 26 – 30 mph >> 2 >> 31 – 35 mph >> 3 >> 36 – 40 mph >> 4 >> 41 mph or over >> 5 >> table end >> >> B. Crosswalk Characteristics >> These points will be apportioned based upon the highest-scoring >> characteristics of any of the >> crosswalks at the intersection. For example, if any of the crosswalks at >> an >> intersection have a >> median island protruding into an intersection, then the intersection will >> receive the two points >> allotted for that characteristic. >> list of 1 items >> (a) >> Location of Pedestrian Push Button. Pedestrian push buttons that are too >> far from >> the intersection can present difficulties for blind pedestrians. They may >> make it >> harder for an individual to use the button as a cue for alignment and/or >> to >> push the >> button and cross in the same cycle. >> list end >> >> table with 2 columns and 4 rows >> Location of Pedestrian Actuations >> Points >> One or more ped pushbuttons located > 10 ft from curb >> 1 >> One or more ped pushbuttons located > 5 ft from crosswalk extended >> 2 >> One or more ped pushbuttons out of alignment with direction of travel >> 2 >> table end >> >> list of 1 items >> (b) >> Median Islands Blind pedestrians have difficulties interpreting traffic >> clues at >> medians and islands. Efforts should be made to permit the blind to cross >> in >> one >> continuous movement. In such cases, signal timing should be extended to >> accommodate the full crossing. Divided streets with or without a >> pedestrian >> signal >> actuator in the median will be handled as a single crossing, with the >> width >> measured >> across the entire street. >> list end >> >> table with 2 columns and 2 rows >> Median Island >> Points >> Protruding into crosswalk, or cut through. >> 2 >> table end >> >> list of 1 items >> (c) >> Alignment of Crosswalk. A skewed crosswalk is one in which the direction >> of >> travel >> on the crosswalk differs from that on the approaching sidewalk. In this >> context, >> skew is not defined as the angle at which streets intersect. If a blind >> pedestrian >> walking a straight line from the approaching sidewalk is headed toward >> parallel >> traffic lanes, the crosswalk is skewed. If the pedestrian would end up >> deviating from >> the crosswalk, but would still arrive at the opposite corner, the >> crosswalk >> is not >> defined as skewed for this purpose. >> list end >> Skewed Crosswalk >> 4 >> (d) Distance to Alternative APS >> >> table with 2 columns and 6 rows >> Distance to Alternative APS Crosswalk >> Points >> 1 block >> 0 >> 2 blocks >> 0 >> 3 blocks >> 2 >> 4 blocks >> 2 >> 5 or more blocks >> 3 >> table end >> >> (e) Requests for APS >> New requests for APS will be recorded by the ADA Coordinator. Requestors >> will be >> asked to specify the reason for the request (e.g. proximity on a route to >> school or work), >> the difficulty they encounter at the intersection, and the time of day >> that >> presents the >> greatest difficulty. This information may be used by the Orientation and >> Mobility >> Evaluation team in assessing the intersection. >> >> table with 2 columns and 4 rows >> APS Requests >> Points >> 1 request >> 1 >> 2 recent documented requests >> 2 >> 3 or more recent, documented requests >> 3-4 >> table end >> >> B) Pedestrian Usage >> Blind pedestrians share many characteristics with the sighted population >> in >> that they go to public >> places, business, social, educational and medical facilities. At the same >> time they have >> special needs. For example, they may have a greater reliance on public >> transportation than >> sighted persons. Audible signals should be placed with the view of >> improving mobility of blind >> persons and making more facilities accessible to them. Proximity of >> signals >> to these facilities >> may assure a greater degree of utilization. >> list of 1 items >> 1. >> Proximity to facilities for people who are blind or visually impaired: >> This includes the >> Department of Rehabilitation, Social Security offices, Valley Center for >> the Blind and >> other similar facilities. Special consideration may be given to senior >> citizens complexes >> or public housing facilities that have one or more blind or visually >> impaired persons in >> residence. Points are assigned on the basis of blocks or distance (1 >> block >> equals 400 >> feet) from proposed APS site to subject facility. The closer the two are, >> the more points >> are assigned. >> list end >> >> table with 2 columns and 6 rows >> Proximity >> Points >> 4 to 6 blocks >> 2 >> 3 blocks >> 4 >> 2 blocks >> 6 >> 1 block >> 8 >> At subject facility >> 10 >> table end >> >> 2. Proximity to key facilities utilized by all pedestrians (blind and >> sighted.): This includes >> medical, educational, social, recreational, shopping, commercial, >> business, >> public and >> governmental facilities. Points are assigned on the basis of blocks or >> distance (1 block >> equals 400 feet) from proposed APS site to subject facility. In case of >> multiple facilities, >> points will be assigned on the basis of the closest facility. >> >> table with 2 columns and 6 rows >> Proximity >> Points >> 4 to 6 blocks >> 1 >> 3 blocks >> 2 >> 2 blocks >> 3 >> 1 block >> 4 >> At subject facility >> 5 >> table end >> >> 3. Access to public transit: Because blind and visually impaired persons >> rely heavily upon >> public transportation (bus or trolley), special consideration will be >> given >> to those >> proposed APS sites that have heavy general use, serves any of the >> facilities indicated >> above (Ref. B-1 and B-2), or serves as a transfer point and serves 2 or >> more transit >> routes within a one-block walking distance. >> list of 1 items >> a) >> Number of transit stops and/or transit routes within one block of >> proposed >> audible >> signal site. >> list end >> >> table with 2 columns and 6 rows >> Number of Routes and Stops >> Points >> 1 – 2 routes and 1 stop >> 1 >> 3 or more routes and 1 stop >> 2 >> 1 – 2 routes and 2 stops >> 3 >> 3 or more routes and 2 stops >> 4 >> 2 or more routes and more than 2 stops >> 5 >> table end >> >> b) Passenger usage is based upon the total passengers boarding and >> debarking each >> day at a transit stop or transfer point within a one-block walking >> distance. >> >> table with 2 columns and 7 rows >> Passengers Boarding and Debarking Each Day >> Points >> 0 – 49 >> 0 >> 50-149 >> 1 >> 150-249 >> 2 >> 250-499 >> 3 >> 500-999 >> 4 >> 1,000 and over >> 5 >> table end >> >> C) Traffic Conditions >> Vehicle volumes, traffic distribution, traffic congestion and flow >> characteristics may assist or >> impede the blind traveler in crossing an intersection. Blind pedestrians >> can function best when >> crossing signalized intersections that are at right angles with a >> moderate >> but steady flow of >> traffic through the intersection on each leg and with a minimum of >> turning >> movements (right or >> left turns). Traffic that stops on each leg during each signal cycle is >> particularly helpful. Traffic >> that is either light, or very heavy, or erratic in its flow makes it >> difficult for the blind traveler to >> pick up audible clues as to whether the light is red or green. In such >> cases, audible signals will >> assist in determining when it is possible to cross the street. Points may >> be assigned by the >> evaluation team based upon their perception of the relative importance of >> each of these factors >> (which are not necessarily dependent upon the total average daily >> traffic). >> Candidate locations >> may score up to a maximum of 5 points for each of the following factors >> depending upon overall >> traffic distribution. >> >> table with 3 columns and 6 rows >> Heavy Traffic Flow >> Vehicles per hour >> Points >> Approach traffic on all legs is in excess of 2,000 vehicles per hour >> during >> any peak hour. >> 2,000 – 2,999 >> 1 >> Approach traffic on all legs is in excess of 2,000 vehicles per hour >> during >> any peak hour. >> 3,000 – 3,999 >> 2 >> Approach traffic on all legs is in excess of 2,000 vehicles per hour >> during >> any peak hour. >> 4,000 – 4,999 >> 3 >> Approach traffic on all legs is in excess of 2,000 vehicles per hour >> during >> any peak hour. >> 5,000 – 5,999 >> 4 >> Approach traffic on all legs is in excess of 2,000 vehicles per hour >> during >> any peak hour. >> 6,000 and over >> 5 >> table end >> >> table with 3 columns and 7 rows >> Off Peak Traffic Presence Direction 1 >> Points >> At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, >> expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. >> Constant (≥ 90%) >> 0 >> At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, >> expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. >> Heavy (70-80%) >> 1 >> At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, >> expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. >> Moderate (50-60%) >> 2 >> At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, >> expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. >> Light (30-40%) >> 3 >> At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, >> expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. >> Occasional (<30%) >> 4 >> At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, >> expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. >> None (no through lanes to create surge noise. >> 5 >> table end >> >> table with 3 columns and 7 rows >> Off Peak Traffic Presence >> Direction 2 >> Points >> At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, >> expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. >> Constant (≥ 90%) >> 0 >> At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, >> expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. >> Heavy (70-80%) >> 1 >> At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, >> expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. >> Moderate (50-60%) >> 2 >> At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, >> expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. >> Light (30-40%) >> 3 >> At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, >> expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. >> Occasional (<30%) >> 4 >> At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, >> expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. >> None (no through lanes to create surge noise. >> 5 >> table end >> >> E.) Mobility Evaluation >> Each intersection being considered for audible signals should be >> evaluated >> by a certified >> orientation and mobility specialist. Based on the judgment of the O-M >> specialist and the >> evaluation team, additional points may be assigned based on observed or >> special conditions not >> adequately covered by any of the previous factors. This may include a >> heavy >> right-turn volume, >> right-turn island, right-turn signals, limited cone of “visibility”, etc. >> Points >> Mobility and miscellaneous factors >> 0-15 >> Signals without Pedestrian Actuations >> Signalized intersections without pedestrian actuations may be considered >> for evaluation under >> this priority system, provided the following conditions are met: >> list of 3 items >> 1. >> There must be a demonstrated problem or need that can be alleviated by >> the >> installation of an audible signal in the form of a request from an >> individual or group >> that would use the audible signal. >> 2. >> The evaluation team must unanimously concur with the need. >> 3. >> Appropriate pedestrian actuation buttons and circuits must be provided as >> part of the >> APS installation. >> list end >> Accessible Signals at New Signal Installations >> Accessible signals will be considered for new signal installation if it >> is >> determined that >> installation is warranted by the criteria established above. >> Public Notice of Installation of Accessible Signals >> The City recognizes that the installation of an APS may be of interest to >> the community, >> especially residents in the immediate vicinity of the candidate >> intersection. In addition, research >> has indicated that APS are more effectively used by blind and visually >> impaired pedestrians if >> they have notice of its location and a basic understanding of the type of >> signal installed. >> Accordingly, the Director of Public Works will provide a notice to >> neighbors in a 350 feet radius >> from the intersection of the proposed installation of an APS at that >> site, >> and invite concerned >> citizens to contact him in writing. In addition, the Department of Public >> Works will issue press >> releases and informing the public and organizations serving people with >> disabilities, especially >> visual impairments, of type and location of proposed and installed APS. >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b75205%40gmail.com >> > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net > From JMcCarthy at nfb.org Fri Mar 13 13:58:47 2009 From: JMcCarthy at nfb.org (McCarthy, Jim) Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 09:58:47 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] comments needed regarding policy for audible pedestriansignals In-Reply-To: <46F35C9C59EA4BEA85A215EF8960813E@spike> Message-ID: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6B26D659@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local> Chuck, I am happy to talk through this with you off line if you would prefer. Nevertheless, I will offer my immediate thoughts after reading. It is a little unclear what the goal is. This process is to prioritize intersections giving those most in need APS first. I am convinced that there are several signalized (light controlled) intersections that do not need these devices. However, this might be a way to provide APS at all signalized intersections in time and that may be what the Access-Board will come to require. I think it is good to have as a part of the evaluation team a blind person and a deaf blind person when the requester is deaf blind or serves that community. I have always found it problematic though when cities say that the centers blind people use should have some super priority. I lived in Portland Oregon and the west part of the city was hilly with curvy streets. Many were not straight and some had high speed traffic. However, the audible traffic signals were almost never in those neighborhoods (the better ones I might add) because it was assumed that blind people did not frequent them. To me that is a ghettoizing assumption that results from this process. I do think that public transit centers and such places should have greater attention paid though and this document would do that. Finally, in the main, I think that the traffic and street configuration factors are as they should be. I think that the locations with the greatest need based on these factors should be the first to receive signals. The Fresno process is similar to others I have seen, though I would prefer that the evaluation group use the factors and evaluate all signalized intersections using the factors more than whether and how many requests were made. Jim McCarthy -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2009 8:21 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: [blindlaw] comments needed regarding policy for audible pedestriansignals The City of Fresno is proposing the policy shown below to evaluate the installation of audible traffic signals. As this is outside my expertise I would appreciate any comments regarding this document. Please feel free to contact me off list if needed. Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal 1237 P Street Fresno ca 93721 559-266-9237 APS Policy-03-09-LP .pdf DRAFT ACCESSIBLE PEDESTRIAN SIGNALS (APS) INTERSECTION EVALUATION PROCEDURE BACKGROUND Accessible Pedestrian Signals (APS), also known as audible pedestrian signals, are devices that communicate information about pedestrian timing in nonvisual format such as audible tones, verbal messages, and/or vibrating surfaces. APS are used in conjunction with standard pedestrian activated traffic signals to provide the following information to pedestrians: list of 4 items · Existence of and location of the pedestrian pushbutton · Beginning of the pedestrian WALK interval · Direction of the crosswalk and location of the destination curb · Clearance signal interval list end They are used to assist blind and visually impaired persons and other persons with disabilities of all ages to cross at designated streets and intersections. PURPOSE The purpose of this evaluation policy is to set forth factors to be used by the City of Fresno's Public Works Department, in cooperation with the City of Fresno's Disability Advisory Commission, in developing a priority listing of signalized intersection candidates to be retrofitted with audible devices that will provide guidance for the blind community and visually impaired persons and other persons with disabilities of all ages to cross certain streets. POLICY It is the policy of the City Council that the retrofitting of existing traffic signals with APS shall be based on factors established herein and that such measurements and computations as may be required in determining priority rating of candidate locations shall be the responsibility of the Public Works Department. It should be noted that in special situations, an APS should not be installed because of the adverse affect it could have on pedestrian safety as a result of the overall traffic circulation pattern of an area, or unusual geometric conditions where an APS would not provide the safety benefits necessary for the blind or visually impaired individuals to cross a street. It should also be noted that some traffic signals cannot be retrofitted with APS without major costly modifications. Retrofitting of traffic signals with APS shall be subject to approval by the City Engineer. Important: APS are utilized to help blind and visually impaired travelers recognize when a WALK signal is operating in a given direction. An APS may enhance the safety of blind travelers in two ways: list of 1 items 1. Lessens the chance of a blind or visually impaired pedestrian misjudging when the walk phase is operating, thereby lessening the chance of accidentally crossing against a signal. list end list of 1 items 2. Helps blind and visually impaired pedestrians recognize immediately when the walk phase begins, permitting them to cross the street in a timely fashion, thereby lessening the chance of being in the intersection when the signal changes. list end However, it is important to recognize that the APS does not and cannot assure the blind and visually impaired pedestrians that there will be no potential traffic conflicts while crossing when the APS is operating. In particular, the blind and visually impaired pedestrians should be aware of at least four possible conflicts. list of 4 items 1. Vehicles may be still clearing the intersection when the APS comes on. 2. Vehicles may fail to stop for the red light. This is particularly common for motorists attempting to enter on a yellow light. 3. Motorists may stop and make a right turn on red while watching traffic on their left but may fail to notice pedestrians on their right. 4. Vehicles may have right and left turns on the same phase as the pedestrian. list end Because of these potential conflicts, it is important that the blind or visually impaired traveler exercise due caution for his or her well-being when crossing a street, whether or not it is equipped with APS. It is especially important that blind and visually impaired travelers be properly trained by certified orientation and mobility specialists in safe travel techniques on the public right-of-way. EVALUATION PROCEDURE (See attached "Evaluation Form.") The following basic considerations and evaluation factors shall be utilized to determine whether a location is eligible to be a candidate for APS and to determine its relative position on the priority list. Evaluation and scoring of factors will be conducted by an evaluation team consisting of a certified orientation-mobility specialist, a visually impaired/blind traveler and a traffic engineer. Candidate locations shall be requested by the City of Fresno Disability Advisory Commission, its working groups, and constituent requests to the ADA Coordinator's office. Candidate locations will be evaluated by means of the sample evaluation sheet attached. I. BASIC CONSIDERATIONS: APS normally will be considered for installation only if the following conditions are met: list of 5 items A. Intersections must be signalized. B. Signals must be susceptible to retrofitting. C. Signals should be equipped with pedestrian signal actuations. (See also section on "Signals without Pedestrian Actuations.") D. Location must be suitable to installation of audible signals, in terms of surrounding land use, noise level and neighborhood acceptance. E. There must be a demonstrated need for the audible signals in the form of a request from an individual or group that would use the audible signal. list end II EVALUATION FACTORS The following factors shall be used to establish a priority listing for potential audible traffic signal candidates. Candidates will be arranged in priority order of those with the highest total points (100 points maximum) on top and then in descending order. The scoring of factors will be conducted by an evaluation team consistent of a mobility specialist, a visually impaired/blind traveler and a traffic engineer. If the request for an APS was made by a deaf blind individual, or by representative of an organization serving deaf blind pedestrians in order to improve access in their geographic area, the evaluation team may also include a deaf blind rater. The decision whether to include a deaf blind rater will be made by the City Engineer. A) Intersection Safety 1. Accident Records: Past pedestrian accident experience at the intersection will be used as an indication of potential safety performance. Points will be based on pedestrian accidents reported by the City of Fresno's Police Department. table with 3 columns and 6 rows Pedestrian Accidents Period Points 1 4 years 1 2 4 years 2 3 4 years 3 4 4 years 4 5 or more 4 years 5 table end 2. Intersection Configuration: The number of approaches to an intersection and their geometric configuration (offset, skewed, etc.) affect the ability of the blind and visually impaired persons crossing the roadway. In particular, traffic at 3-leg intersections tends not to provide adequate audible clues for the blind to permit them to effectively judge the signal phase. table with 2 columns and 6 rows Configuration Points 4-leg right angle intersection 1 3-leg T-intersection 2 3 or 4-leg skewed intersection 3 4-leg offset intersection 4 Other complex or multiple leg intersections 5 table end Note: Intersections with 5 or more legs will require special design. 3. Intersection Signalization: Pre-timed intersections are the easiest for blind pedestrian because the phase interval is constant and can be observed over time. Vehicle actuated intersections are more difficult, because the pedestrian interval may be of different lengths or skipped all together. Split-phasing can provide confusing auditory information, as a traveler may interpret left-turning vehicles as a parallel traffic surge. table with 2 columns and 5 rows Signalization Points Pre-timed 0 Vehicle Actuated 2 Split Phasing 4 Exclusive Ped Phase (for future reference) 5 table end 4. Width of Crossing: Wider streets are more difficult for blind travelers to cross. If each leg of the intersection has a different width, points will be assigned on the basis of the widest street on which pedestrians are permitted to cross. Crossing width will be measured at the point pedestrians normally cross the street. Islands and medians will be included in the total crossing distance even if they are equipped with separate pedestrian signal actuators. These points will be apportioned based upon the greatest width of the crossing at the subject intersection. table with 2 columns and 7 rows Width of Crossing Points 40 feet or less 0 40 to 59 feet 1 60 to 79 feet 2 80 to 99 feet 3 100 -119 4 120 feet or more 5 table end 5. Vehicle Speed: The speed of approaching traffic reflects the ability of approaching traffic to stop for a pedestrian clearing the intersection as the lights change. Audible signals help blind pedestrians get a timely start at the beginning of the walk phase, thereby permitting clearing the intersection in a timely manner. Points are assigned on the basis of the 85 percentile speed on the fastest approach leg. More points are assigned on the basis of higher speeds. table with 2 columns and 6 rows Speed Range Points 0 - 25 mph 1 26 - 30 mph 2 31 - 35 mph 3 36 - 40 mph 4 41 mph or over 5 table end B. Crosswalk Characteristics These points will be apportioned based upon the highest-scoring characteristics of any of the crosswalks at the intersection. For example, if any of the crosswalks at an intersection have a median island protruding into an intersection, then the intersection will receive the two points allotted for that characteristic. list of 1 items (a) Location of Pedestrian Push Button. Pedestrian push buttons that are too far from the intersection can present difficulties for blind pedestrians. They may make it harder for an individual to use the button as a cue for alignment and/or to push the button and cross in the same cycle. list end table with 2 columns and 4 rows Location of Pedestrian Actuations Points One or more ped pushbuttons located > 10 ft from curb 1 One or more ped pushbuttons located > 5 ft from crosswalk extended 2 One or more ped pushbuttons out of alignment with direction of travel 2 table end list of 1 items (b) Median Islands Blind pedestrians have difficulties interpreting traffic clues at medians and islands. Efforts should be made to permit the blind to cross in one continuous movement. In such cases, signal timing should be extended to accommodate the full crossing. Divided streets with or without a pedestrian signal actuator in the median will be handled as a single crossing, with the width measured across the entire street. list end table with 2 columns and 2 rows Median Island Points Protruding into crosswalk, or cut through. 2 table end list of 1 items (c) Alignment of Crosswalk. A skewed crosswalk is one in which the direction of travel on the crosswalk differs from that on the approaching sidewalk. In this context, skew is not defined as the angle at which streets intersect. If a blind pedestrian walking a straight line from the approaching sidewalk is headed toward parallel traffic lanes, the crosswalk is skewed. If the pedestrian would end up deviating from the crosswalk, but would still arrive at the opposite corner, the crosswalk is not defined as skewed for this purpose. list end Skewed Crosswalk 4 (d) Distance to Alternative APS table with 2 columns and 6 rows Distance to Alternative APS Crosswalk Points 1 block 0 2 blocks 0 3 blocks 2 4 blocks 2 5 or more blocks 3 table end (e) Requests for APS New requests for APS will be recorded by the ADA Coordinator. Requestors will be asked to specify the reason for the request (e.g. proximity on a route to school or work), the difficulty they encounter at the intersection, and the time of day that presents the greatest difficulty. This information may be used by the Orientation and Mobility Evaluation team in assessing the intersection. table with 2 columns and 4 rows APS Requests Points 1 request 1 2 recent documented requests 2 3 or more recent, documented requests 3-4 table end B) Pedestrian Usage Blind pedestrians share many characteristics with the sighted population in that they go to public places, business, social, educational and medical facilities. At the same time they have special needs. For example, they may have a greater reliance on public transportation than sighted persons. Audible signals should be placed with the view of improving mobility of blind persons and making more facilities accessible to them. Proximity of signals to these facilities may assure a greater degree of utilization. list of 1 items 1. Proximity to facilities for people who are blind or visually impaired: This includes the Department of Rehabilitation, Social Security offices, Valley Center for the Blind and other similar facilities. Special consideration may be given to senior citizens complexes or public housing facilities that have one or more blind or visually impaired persons in residence. Points are assigned on the basis of blocks or distance (1 block equals 400 feet) from proposed APS site to subject facility. The closer the two are, the more points are assigned. list end table with 2 columns and 6 rows Proximity Points 4 to 6 blocks 2 3 blocks 4 2 blocks 6 1 block 8 At subject facility 10 table end 2. Proximity to key facilities utilized by all pedestrians (blind and sighted.): This includes medical, educational, social, recreational, shopping, commercial, business, public and governmental facilities. Points are assigned on the basis of blocks or distance (1 block equals 400 feet) from proposed APS site to subject facility. In case of multiple facilities, points will be assigned on the basis of the closest facility. table with 2 columns and 6 rows Proximity Points 4 to 6 blocks 1 3 blocks 2 2 blocks 3 1 block 4 At subject facility 5 table end 3. Access to public transit: Because blind and visually impaired persons rely heavily upon public transportation (bus or trolley), special consideration will be given to those proposed APS sites that have heavy general use, serves any of the facilities indicated above (Ref. B-1 and B-2), or serves as a transfer point and serves 2 or more transit routes within a one-block walking distance. list of 1 items a) Number of transit stops and/or transit routes within one block of proposed audible signal site. list end table with 2 columns and 6 rows Number of Routes and Stops Points 1 - 2 routes and 1 stop 1 3 or more routes and 1 stop 2 1 - 2 routes and 2 stops 3 3 or more routes and 2 stops 4 2 or more routes and more than 2 stops 5 table end b) Passenger usage is based upon the total passengers boarding and debarking each day at a transit stop or transfer point within a one-block walking distance. table with 2 columns and 7 rows Passengers Boarding and Debarking Each Day Points 0 - 49 0 50-149 1 150-249 2 250-499 3 500-999 4 1,000 and over 5 table end C) Traffic Conditions Vehicle volumes, traffic distribution, traffic congestion and flow characteristics may assist or impede the blind traveler in crossing an intersection. Blind pedestrians can function best when crossing signalized intersections that are at right angles with a moderate but steady flow of traffic through the intersection on each leg and with a minimum of turning movements (right or left turns). Traffic that stops on each leg during each signal cycle is particularly helpful. Traffic that is either light, or very heavy, or erratic in its flow makes it difficult for the blind traveler to pick up audible clues as to whether the light is red or green. In such cases, audible signals will assist in determining when it is possible to cross the street. Points may be assigned by the evaluation team based upon their perception of the relative importance of each of these factors (which are not necessarily dependent upon the total average daily traffic). Candidate locations may score up to a maximum of 5 points for each of the following factors depending upon overall traffic distribution. table with 3 columns and 6 rows Heavy Traffic Flow Vehicles per hour Points Approach traffic on all legs is in excess of 2,000 vehicles per hour during any peak hour. 2,000 - 2,999 1 Approach traffic on all legs is in excess of 2,000 vehicles per hour during any peak hour. 3,000 - 3,999 2 Approach traffic on all legs is in excess of 2,000 vehicles per hour during any peak hour. 4,000 - 4,999 3 Approach traffic on all legs is in excess of 2,000 vehicles per hour during any peak hour. 5,000 - 5,999 4 Approach traffic on all legs is in excess of 2,000 vehicles per hour during any peak hour. 6,000 and over 5 table end table with 3 columns and 7 rows Off Peak Traffic Presence Direction 1 Points At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. Constant (≥ 90%) 0 At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. Heavy (70-80%) 1 At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. Moderate (50-60%) 2 At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. Light (30-40%) 3 At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. Occasional (<30%) 4 At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. None (no through lanes to create surge noise. 5 table end table with 3 columns and 7 rows Off Peak Traffic Presence Direction 2 Points At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. Constant (≥ 90%) 0 At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. Heavy (70-80%) 1 At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. Moderate (50-60%) 2 At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. Light (30-40%) 3 At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. Occasional (<30%) 4 At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. None (no through lanes to create surge noise. 5 table end E.) Mobility Evaluation Each intersection being considered for audible signals should be evaluated by a certified orientation and mobility specialist. Based on the judgment of the O-M specialist and the evaluation team, additional points may be assigned based on observed or special conditions not adequately covered by any of the previous factors. This may include a heavy right-turn volume, right-turn island, right-turn signals, limited cone of "visibility", etc. Points Mobility and miscellaneous factors 0-15 Signals without Pedestrian Actuations Signalized intersections without pedestrian actuations may be considered for evaluation under this priority system, provided the following conditions are met: list of 3 items 1. There must be a demonstrated problem or need that can be alleviated by the installation of an audible signal in the form of a request from an individual or group that would use the audible signal. 2. The evaluation team must unanimously concur with the need. 3. Appropriate pedestrian actuation buttons and circuits must be provided as part of the APS installation. list end Accessible Signals at New Signal Installations Accessible signals will be considered for new signal installation if it is determined that installation is warranted by the criteria established above. Public Notice of Installation of Accessible Signals The City recognizes that the installation of an APS may be of interest to the community, especially residents in the immediate vicinity of the candidate intersection. In addition, research has indicated that APS are more effectively used by blind and visually impaired pedestrians if they have notice of its location and a basic understanding of the type of signal installed. Accordingly, the Director of Public Works will provide a notice to neighbors in a 350 feet radius from the intersection of the proposed installation of an APS at that site, and invite concerned citizens to contact him in writing. In addition, the Department of Public Works will issue press releases and informing the public and organizations serving people with disabilities, especially visual impairments, of type and location of proposed and installed APS. _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jmccarthy%40nfb.org From b75205 at gmail.com Fri Mar 13 15:47:47 2009 From: b75205 at gmail.com (James Pepper) Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 10:47:47 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] College textbooks question In-Reply-To: <1BF7BC580A6848458EC7F6073968C91C@Rosslaptop> References: <20090312104747.51092C51F4@mail1-backupmx.mn2.visi.com> <1BF7BC580A6848458EC7F6073968C91C@Rosslaptop> Message-ID: Colleges are required to have all access specifically in the Rehabilitation Act of 1973 and all of their federal money that they have received since 1973 acts as a lein against their assets requiring them to comply with the Act. This also includes all money in Federal Student Loans, Presidential Librairies, Grants, etc. They are extremely exposed by this law and so they should be providing alternative means for you to access content. If they are not, they would have to figure out how to operate without all of the assets since 1973. You might want to look into this law. They actually wrote a whole section of the law just for post secondary schools and they have been on the hook for this since 1973. Also they are required to do this in employment and in access to educational materials, so always check to see if they have done this in their employment division. James Pepper On Thu, Mar 12, 2009 at 4:44 PM, Ross Doerr wrote: > Hello Angie: > thank you for the reference. > I have been looking through the Instructional Materials Accessibility Act > of 2002 provisions and am not finding the university level applicability I > was hoping for, but it is nice to know that One state has takent he plunge > in that direction. I will look into it. > Thank you. > Ross A. Doerr Esq. > > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Angie Matney" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Thursday, March 12, 2009 6:45 AM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] College textbooks question > > > Hi Ross, >> >> I don't remember the case you're referring to, but I think there is a New >> York law concerning accessibility of post-secondary texts. The Cornell >> disability services person mentioned it to me when I was trying to decide >> where to go to law school. He >> made it sound as though publishers must provide electronic copies if they >> are requiested. >> >> Sorry I don't know more about this. >> >> Angie >> >> >> >> On Wed, 11 Mar 2009 18:21:47 -0400, Ross Doerr wrote: >> >> Recently there was a case noted on this list that involved college level >>> textbooks being in accessible format. >>> If anyone recalls that case, could you please contact me off list? >>> Any comments regarding college level textbook accessibility would be >>> welcome as well. >>> >> >> Ross Doerr Esq. >>> rumpole at roadrunner.com >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie%40mpmail.net >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rumpole%40adelphia.net >> > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b75205%40gmail.com > From carter.tjoseph at gmail.com Fri Mar 13 18:36:11 2009 From: carter.tjoseph at gmail.com (T. Joseph Carter) Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 11:36:11 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target In-Reply-To: <002e01c9a382$8265dec0$87319c40$@net> References: <4E8742A18776454A880746AD18B966F5@colorado0f48f8> <5F60EFF2D5FD48A6A428F280C2AE8727@labarre> <547789.45557.qm@web36707.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <002e01c9a382$8265dec0$87319c40$@net> Message-ID: <20090313183610.GA66589@yumi.bluecherry.net> I think you missed the subject change. This is about the Target case. Nothing's been settled regarding LSAC yet. Joseph On Thu, Mar 12, 2009 at 07:22:06PM -0700, Bill Spiry wrote: >What kind of proposed resolution is involved here? Will it result in LSAC >providing accessible materials in the immediate future?? From ms at browngold.com Fri Mar 13 18:51:55 2009 From: ms at browngold.com (Mehgan Sidhu) Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 14:51:55 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Introduction Message-ID: Hello Listserv Members, I just joined the listserv so that I can share relevant information on this forum. I'm an attorney at Brown, Goldstein & Levy and one of several attorneys at the firm who represents the National Federation of the Blind on access technology and other litigation matters. I've been with the firm for about two-and-a-half years and have worked on the Target case, the Apple iTunes settlement, and other website, technology and education cases. Recently, I've been working with Scott LaBarre, Disability Rights Advocates, and others on the listserv in the action against the LSAC's inaccessible website and have been working more generally on issues related to access to e-books for the NFB. I look forward to sharing information that may be useful, particularly related to the access technology issues. Best, Mehgan Mehgan Sidhu Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP 120 East Baltimore Street, Suite 1700 Baltimore, Maryland 21202 410-962-1030 x1324 410-385-0869 (fax) ms at browngold.com www.browngold.com Confidentiality Notice This e-mail may contain confidential information that may also be legally privileged and that is intended only for the use of the addressee(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient or an authorized agent of the recipient, please be advised that any dissemination or copying of this e-mail, or taking of any action in reliance on the information contained herein, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify me immediately by use of the reply button, and then delete the e-mail from your system. Thank you! From ms at browngold.com Fri Mar 13 19:20:32 2009 From: ms at browngold.com (Mehgan Sidhu) Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 15:20:32 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target Message-ID: To answer the recent questions posted about the Target case, the final settlement hearing took place on March 9th. I understand from our counsel in California, Larry Paradis of DRA and Josh Konecky, that there were no objectors and the Judge was pleased with the resolution of the case. The settlement is not fully "final" until the time for any appeals has run - which is about 30 days. Given there were no objectors, it is highly unlikely that any appeals will be filed. The judge has not yet made a ruling on attorneys fees, but that will not hold up enforcement of the settlement. As for disbursements, assuming there are no appeals, the claims administer has 45 days from the final approval date to disburse funds to claimants. I do not know the final tally of approved claimants, though I think there were several hundred. I will pass that information along when I have it. We will now be working on enforcing the settlement commitments that Target made with respect to the accessibility of the website. Mehgan Sidhu Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP 120 East Baltimore Street, Suite 1700 Baltimore, Maryland 21202 410-962-1030 x1324 410-385-0869 (fax) ms at browngold.com www.browngold.com Confidentiality Notice This e-mail may contain confidential information that may also be legally privileged and that is intended only for the use of the addressee(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient or an authorized agent of the recipient, please be advised that any dissemination or copying of this e-mail, or taking of any action in reliance on the information contained herein, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify me immediately by use of the reply button, and then delete the e-mail from your system. Thank you! From JMcCarthy at nfb.org Fri Mar 13 19:23:38 2009 From: JMcCarthy at nfb.org (McCarthy, Jim) Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 15:23:38 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Introduction In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6B26D662@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local> Mehgan, Welcome! You will certainly bring valuable discourse to our list. Jim McCarthy -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Mehgan Sidhu Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 2:52 PM To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org Subject: [blindlaw] Introduction Hello Listserv Members, I just joined the listserv so that I can share relevant information on this forum. I'm an attorney at Brown, Goldstein & Levy and one of several attorneys at the firm who represents the National Federation of the Blind on access technology and other litigation matters. I've been with the firm for about two-and-a-half years and have worked on the Target case, the Apple iTunes settlement, and other website, technology and education cases. Recently, I've been working with Scott LaBarre, Disability Rights Advocates, and others on the listserv in the action against the LSAC's inaccessible website and have been working more generally on issues related to access to e-books for the NFB. I look forward to sharing information that may be useful, particularly related to the access technology issues. Best, Mehgan Mehgan Sidhu Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP 120 East Baltimore Street, Suite 1700 Baltimore, Maryland 21202 410-962-1030 x1324 410-385-0869 (fax) ms at browngold.com www.browngold.com Confidentiality Notice This e-mail may contain confidential information that may also be legally privileged and that is intended only for the use of the addressee(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient or an authorized agent of the recipient, please be advised that any dissemination or copying of this e-mail, or taking of any action in reliance on the information contained herein, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify me immediately by use of the reply button, and then delete the e-mail from your system. Thank you! _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jmccarthy%40nf b.org From stevep.deeley at insightbb.com Fri Mar 13 20:31:00 2009 From: stevep.deeley at insightbb.com (Steve P. Deeley) Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 16:31:00 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <549FC55C53E54BA5814FA71C231CE71F@StevePC> This is ridiculous! How were these people damaged? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mehgan Sidhu" To: Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 3:20 PM Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > To answer the recent questions posted about the Target case, the final > settlement hearing took place on March 9th. I understand from our counsel > in California, Larry Paradis of DRA and Josh Konecky, that there were no > objectors and the Judge was pleased with the resolution of the case. The > settlement is not fully "final" until the time for any appeals has run - > which is about 30 days. Given there were no objectors, it is highly > unlikely that any appeals will be filed. The judge has not yet made a > ruling on attorneys fees, but that will not hold up enforcement of the > settlement. > > > > As for disbursements, assuming there are no appeals, the claims administer > has 45 days from the final approval date to disburse funds to claimants. > I do not know the final tally of approved claimants, though I think there > were several hundred. I will pass that information along when I have it. > > > > We will now be working on enforcing the settlement commitments that Target > made with respect to the accessibility of the website. > > > Mehgan Sidhu > Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP > 120 East Baltimore Street, Suite 1700 > Baltimore, Maryland 21202 > 410-962-1030 x1324 > 410-385-0869 (fax) > ms at browngold.com > www.browngold.com > > Confidentiality Notice > > This e-mail may contain confidential information that may also be legally > privileged and that is intended only for the use of the addressee(s) named > above. If you are not the intended recipient or an authorized agent of > the recipient, please be advised that any dissemination or copying of this > e-mail, or taking of any action in reliance on the information contained > herein, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in > error, please notify me immediately by use of the reply button, and then > delete the e-mail from your system. Thank you! > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release Date: 03/13/09 05:59:00 From ms at browngold.com Fri Mar 13 21:02:52 2009 From: ms at browngold.com (Mehgan Sidhu) Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 17:02:52 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target In-Reply-To: <549FC55C53E54BA5814FA71C231CE71F@StevePC> References: <549FC55C53E54BA5814FA71C231CE71F@StevePC> Message-ID: Steve, In addition to the ADA claim, the lawsuit was brought under California's Unruh Act and Disabled Person's Act, both of which provide for minimum statutory damages ($4,000 and $1,000 per violation, respectively). Under the agreement, members of the California class who are legally blind, had attempted to use Target.com between February 7, 2003 and December 9, 2008, and experienced significant barriers were eligible for damages of up to $3,500 per violation for a maximum of 2 violations. A copy of the settlement is available at the following site: http://www.nfbtargetlawsuit.com/final_settlement.html Mehgan Sidhu Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP 120 East Baltimore Street, Suite 1700 Baltimore, Maryland 21202 410-962-1030 x1324 410-385-0869 (fax) ms at browngold.com www.browngold.com Confidentiality Notice This e-mail may contain confidential information that may also be legally privileged and that is intended only for the use of the addressee(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient or an authorized agent of the recipient, please be advised that any dissemination or copying of this e-mail, or taking of any action in reliance on the information contained herein, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify me immediately by use of the reply button, and then delete the e-mail from your system. Thank you! -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 4:31 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target This is ridiculous! How were these people damaged? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mehgan Sidhu" To: Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 3:20 PM Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > To answer the recent questions posted about the Target case, the final > settlement hearing took place on March 9th. I understand from our counsel > in California, Larry Paradis of DRA and Josh Konecky, that there were no > objectors and the Judge was pleased with the resolution of the case. The > settlement is not fully "final" until the time for any appeals has run - > which is about 30 days. Given there were no objectors, it is highly > unlikely that any appeals will be filed. The judge has not yet made a > ruling on attorneys fees, but that will not hold up enforcement of the > settlement. > > > > As for disbursements, assuming there are no appeals, the claims administer > has 45 days from the final approval date to disburse funds to claimants. > I do not know the final tally of approved claimants, though I think there > were several hundred. I will pass that information along when I have it. > > > > We will now be working on enforcing the settlement commitments that Target > made with respect to the accessibility of the website. > > > Mehgan Sidhu > Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP > 120 East Baltimore Street, Suite 1700 > Baltimore, Maryland 21202 > 410-962-1030 x1324 > 410-385-0869 (fax) > ms at browngold.com > www.browngold.com > > Confidentiality Notice > > This e-mail may contain confidential information that may also be legally > privileged and that is intended only for the use of the addressee(s) named > above. If you are not the intended recipient or an authorized agent of > the recipient, please be advised that any dissemination or copying of this > e-mail, or taking of any action in reliance on the information contained > herein, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in > error, please notify me immediately by use of the reply button, and then > delete the e-mail from your system. Thank you! > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release Date: 03/13/09 05:59:00 _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ms%40browngold.com From my5thattempt at yahoo.com Fri Mar 13 21:22:26 2009 From: my5thattempt at yahoo.com (M BG) Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 14:22:26 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target References: Message-ID: <35605.8224.qm@web36707.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Ms. Sidhu, Thank you for the update and keeping those of us in California informed. Misty ________________________________ From: Mehgan Sidhu To: "blindlaw at nfbnet.org" Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 12:20:32 PM Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target To answer the recent questions posted about the Target case, the final settlement hearing took place on March 9th.  I understand from our counsel in California, Larry Paradis of DRA and Josh Konecky, that there were no objectors and the Judge was pleased with the resolution of the case.  The settlement is not fully "final" until the time for any appeals has run - which is about 30 days.  Given there were no objectors, it is highly unlikely that any appeals will be filed.  The judge has not yet made a ruling on attorneys fees, but that will not hold up enforcement of the settlement. As for disbursements, assuming there are no appeals, the claims administer has 45 days from the final approval date to disburse funds to claimants.  I do not know the final tally of approved claimants, though I think there were several hundred.  I will pass that information along when I have it. We will now be working on enforcing the settlement commitments that Target made with respect to the accessibility of the website. Mehgan Sidhu Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP 120 East Baltimore Street, Suite 1700 Baltimore, Maryland 21202 410-962-1030 x1324 410-385-0869 (fax) ms at browngold.com www.browngold.com Confidentiality Notice This e-mail may contain confidential information that may also be legally privileged and that is intended only for the use of the addressee(s) named above.  If you are not the intended recipient or an authorized agent of the recipient, please be advised that any dissemination or copying of this e-mail, or taking of any action in reliance on the information contained herein, is strictly prohibited.  If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify me immediately by use of the reply button, and then delete the e-mail from your system.  Thank you! _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/my5thattempt%40yahoo.com From slabarre at labarrelaw.com Fri Mar 13 21:38:51 2009 From: slabarre at labarrelaw.com (Scott C. LaBarre) Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 15:38:51 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target References: <549FC55C53E54BA5814FA71C231CE71F@StevePC> Message-ID: Violation of civil rights has long been recognized as a form of compensible legal damage as well it should be. Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. LaBarre Law Offices P.C. 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 Denver, Colorado 80222 303 504-5979 (voice) 303 757-3640 (fax) slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) www.labarrelaw.com (website) CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. Deeley" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 2:31 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > This is ridiculous! How were these people damaged? > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mehgan Sidhu" > To: > Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 3:20 PM > Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > >> To answer the recent questions posted about the Target case, the final >> settlement hearing took place on March 9th. I understand from our >> counsel in California, Larry Paradis of DRA and Josh Konecky, that there >> were no objectors and the Judge was pleased with the resolution of the >> case. The settlement is not fully "final" until the time for any >> appeals has run - which is about 30 days. Given there were no objectors, >> it is highly unlikely that any appeals will be filed. The judge has not >> yet made a ruling on attorneys fees, but that will not hold up >> enforcement of the settlement. >> >> >> >> As for disbursements, assuming there are no appeals, the claims >> administer has 45 days from the final approval date to disburse funds to >> claimants. I do not know the final tally of approved claimants, though I >> think there were several hundred. I will pass that information along >> when I have it. >> >> >> >> We will now be working on enforcing the settlement commitments that >> Target made with respect to the accessibility of the website. >> >> >> Mehgan Sidhu >> Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP >> 120 East Baltimore Street, Suite 1700 >> Baltimore, Maryland 21202 >> 410-962-1030 x1324 >> 410-385-0869 (fax) >> ms at browngold.com >> www.browngold.com >> >> Confidentiality Notice >> >> This e-mail may contain confidential information that may also be legally >> privileged and that is intended only for the use of the addressee(s) >> named above. If you are not the intended recipient or an authorized >> agent of the recipient, please be advised that any dissemination or >> copying of this e-mail, or taking of any action in reliance on the >> information contained herein, is strictly prohibited. If you have >> received this e-mail in error, please notify me immediately by use of the >> reply button, and then delete the e-mail from your system. Thank you! >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release Date: 03/13/09 > 05:59:00 > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/slabarre%40labarrelaw.com > From slabarre at labarrelaw.com Fri Mar 13 21:51:39 2009 From: slabarre at labarrelaw.com (Scott C. LaBarre) Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 15:51:39 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] Introduction References: Message-ID: <5AA77F8E31F74CECB341D611142A624F@labarre> Welcome Mehgan. You make a great addition to the group! Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. LaBarre Law Offices P.C. 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 Denver, Colorado 80222 303 504-5979 (voice) 303 757-3640 (fax) slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) www.labarrelaw.com (website) CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mehgan Sidhu" To: Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 12:51 PM Subject: [blindlaw] Introduction > Hello Listserv Members, > > I just joined the listserv so that I can share relevant information on > this forum. I'm an attorney at Brown, Goldstein & Levy and one of several > attorneys at the firm who represents the National Federation of the Blind > on access technology and other litigation matters. I've been with the > firm for about two-and-a-half years and have worked on the Target case, > the Apple iTunes settlement, and other website, technology and education > cases. Recently, I've been working with Scott LaBarre, Disability Rights > Advocates, and others on the listserv in the action against the LSAC's > inaccessible website and have been working more generally on issues > related to access to e-books for the NFB. I look forward to sharing > information that may be useful, particularly related to the access > technology issues. > > Best, > Mehgan > > Mehgan Sidhu > Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP > 120 East Baltimore Street, Suite 1700 > Baltimore, Maryland 21202 > 410-962-1030 x1324 > 410-385-0869 (fax) > ms at browngold.com > www.browngold.com > > Confidentiality Notice > > This e-mail may contain confidential information that may also be legally > privileged and that is intended only for the use of the addressee(s) named > above. If you are not the intended recipient or an authorized agent of > the recipient, please be advised that any dissemination or copying of this > e-mail, or taking of any action in reliance on the information contained > herein, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in > error, please notify me immediately by use of the reply button, and then > delete the e-mail from your system. Thank you! > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/slabarre%40labarrelaw.com > From b75205 at gmail.com Sat Mar 14 00:47:14 2009 From: b75205 at gmail.com (James Pepper) Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 19:47:14 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. lsac complaint In-Reply-To: References: <001401c9a189$3fa59ee0$bef0dca0$@net> <000c01c9a2b5$35c39440$a14abcc0$@net> Message-ID: Well here is that sample. It is not the LSAT but it shows what can be done. You should use the latest version of Adobe Reader to read documents, versions 8 or 9 because earlier versions have problems with how they lay out form fields. There are no form fields in this sample but it shows what can be done with a test. James Pepper On Fri, Mar 13, 2009 at 1:31 AM, Rod Alcidonis wrote: > Well, academically speaking, the law suit could have prayed for a Temporary > Restraining Order, or a preliminary Injunction against the LSAC for folks > like you. Basically enjoined the LSAC from administering the exam until they > make the changes. The only difficulty with that I think justifies the reason > they probably did not pray for such a relief is that such a measure would > cause too much harm to the public, I.E, the thousands of law students and > schools who rely on the exam to make admissions decisions. Such an order > while it would have forced the LSAC to make the changes much faster, it > would have unreasonably halted the system for some times. If it were a class > action with thousands of members, it probably would have been easier to > argue, I think. Whether not passing an exam for the first time is considered > irreparable harm is another question -- you can still make the argument > under these circumstances. > > Rod Alcidonis > Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009. > Roger Williams University School of Law > 10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 > Bristol, RI 02809 > Cell: 718-704-4651 > Home: 401-824-8685 > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Spiry" > To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" > Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2009 9:52 PM > > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. lsac complaint > > > I understand. What might be done to getLSAC to authorize use of this > material as an accessible alternative to what they have to offer? I know > NFB > is sueing them, but in the mean time that leaves folks like me who don't > have the Adobe skills you have, and facing the LSAT soon without > accessible > matter. Any ideas or suggestions? > > Thanks. > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of James Pepper > Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 10:43 AM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. lsac complaint > > Well Bill the content is copyrighted by LSAC so I am not sure I can send > this to you. Perhaps some on this list can give that advice. I laid it out > properly. > > James > > On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 9:05 AM, Bill Spiry wrote: > > I would appreciate receiving this as well. Thanks. >> bspiry at comcast.net >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf Of James Pepper >> Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 1:46 AM >> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. lsac complaint >> >> Scott: I laid out the first section of the LSAT to be accessible and I >> can >> send you the files if you would like to see it. Also I made the form that >> they use accessible so the blind can fill out the test without assistance. >> This works with JAWS and Window Eyes and a combination of Adobe's Read out >> Loud and Microsoft Narrator. My process works and if you need references >> at >> NFB, AFB and the AAPD I can send them to you. >> >> It took a while to figure out how they made thier pdfs and I know where >> they >> are making their mistakes. I can correct this problem. These PDFs are >> > made > >> to work natively with JAWS and Adobe Reader and the other screen readers >> without making any adjustments. They work with the default settings in >> Adobe Reader. >> >> Also the forms can be digitally signed and saved and all that fancy stuff >> that you expect with Adobe Acrobat Professional can be done with >> Adobe Reader, versions 8 or 9 which is the free download from Adobe.com. >> So >> we can make the LSAT accessible to anyone with a PC running Windows XP Or >> VIsta without any change of settings. This means the PC can be there for >> the sighted and the blind, with equal access for all. >> >> Also since I labeled everything, it will be a lot quicker for you to fill >> out this test! >> >> Sincerely, >> >> James G. Pepper >> >> >> >> On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 4:32 PM, Scott C. LaBarre >> wrote: >> >> > Below I am sharing the complaint that we filed today in California >> > Court. > >> > ************** >> > LaurEnce W. paradis (California Bar No. 122336) >> > >> > Anna levine (California Bar No. 227881) >> > >> > Disability Rights Advocates >> > >> > 2001 Center Street, Third Floor >> > >> > Berkeley, California 94704 >> > >> > Telephone: (510) 665-8644 >> > >> > Facsimile: (510) 665-8511 >> > >> > TTY: (510) 665-8716 >> > >> > >> > >> > SCOTT LABARRE (to seek pro hac vice admission) >> > >> > LABARRE LAW OFFICES, P.C. >> > >> > 1660 S. Albion Street, Ste 918 >> > >> > Denver, Colo 80222 >> > >> > Telephone: (303) 504-5979 >> > >> > Fax: (303) 757-3640 >> > >> > >> > >> > DANIEL F. GOLDSTEIN (to seek pro hac vice admission) >> > >> > MEHGAN Sidhu (to seek pro hac vice admission) >> > >> > Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP >> > >> > 120 E. Baltimore St., Suite 1700 >> > >> > Baltimore, MD 21202 >> > >> > Telephone: (410) 962-1030 >> > >> > Fax: (410) 385-0869 >> > >> > >> > >> > SUPERIOR COURT OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA >> > COUNTY OF ALAMEDA >> > >> > >> > >> > National Federation of the Blind, the National Federation of the >> Blind >> > of CALIFORNIA, and DEEPA GORAYA, >> > >> > >> > >> > Plaintiffs, >> > >> > v. >> > >> > LAW SCHOOL ADMISSION COUNCIL, INC., >> > >> > Defendant. >> > >> > >> > >> > Case No.: >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > COMPLAINT FOR INJUNCTIVE AND DECLARATORY RELIEF FOR VIOLATIONS OF >> THE >> > CALIFORNIA DISABLED PERSONS ACT AND UNRUH CIVIL RIGHTS ACT >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > INTRODUCTION >> > >> > Plaintiffs complain of Defendant and allege herein as follows: >> > >> > 1. This action, brought by the National Federation of the Blind, >> > the National Federation of the Blind of California, and Deepa Goraya, >> seeks >> > to put an end to civil rights violations committed by defendant Law >> School >> > Admissions Council (hereafter "LSAC") against blind persons seeking to >> take >> > the LSAT exam and apply to law schools. Plaintiff Deepa Goraya, a blind >> law >> > school applicant in California, has been and is being denied equal >> > access > >> to >> > the accommodations, advantages, and facilities LSAC provides its >> > non-disabled customers through http://www.lsac.org (hereafter "lsac.org >> " >> > and "the website"). Plaintiffs National Federation of the Blind and the >> > National Federation of the Blind of California have members who are >> > similarly denied full and equal access to such accommodations, >> > advantages > >> > and facilities. Lsac.org is currently the only place online where >> > prospective law students can register for the Law School Admissions Test >> > ("LSAT"), apply to law schools, and obtain official LSAT test >> > preparation > >> > materials and information. Lsac.org contains multiple access barriers >> that >> > make it difficult if not impossible for blind law school applicants and >> LSAT >> > test takers to use the website and to obtain practice materials without >> > sighted assistance. LSAC thus excludes the blind, including Ms. Goraya, >> > from full and equal access to the accommodations, advantages, >> > facilities, > >> > and privileges of lsac.org. >> > >> > JURISDICTION >> > >> > 2. This is a civil action under California's Disabled Persons >> > Act > >> > (Cal. Civ. Code §§ 54, et seq.) and the Unruh Civil Rights Act (Cal. >> > Civ. > >> > Code §§ 51, et seq.) and for declaratory relief. This Court has >> > jurisdiction over the claims alleged herein pursuant to California Civil >> > Code §§ 54, et seq. and California Civil Code §§ 51, et seq. and >> California >> > Code of Civil Procedure section 1060. >> > >> > 3. This Court has jurisdiction over LSAC because LSAC is a >> > corporation authorized to do business in California and LSAC conducts >> > substantial business in California. LSAC owns, maintains and operates >> > its > >> > website, lsac.org, throughout California and in Alameda County. >> > >> > >> > >> > VENUE >> > >> > 4. Venue is proper in Alameda County because liability arises in >> > part in Alameda County, where the National Federation of the Blind of >> > California has its headquarters. LSAC has been and is committing the >> acts >> > alleged herein in Alameda County, has been and is violating the rights >> > of > >> > patrons in Alameda County, and has been and is causing injury to patrons >> in >> > Alameda County. >> > >> > 5. Plaintiff Goraya is a California citizen and has experienced >> > injury in California as a result of LSAC's inaccessible website and >> practice >> > materials. >> > >> > PARTIES >> > >> > 6. Plaintiff the National Federation of the Blind (hereafter >> "NFB") >> > is a national advocacy organization. The NFB, the oldest and largest >> > national organization of blind persons, is a non-profit corporation duly >> > organized under the laws of the District of Columbia with its principal >> > place of business in Baltimore, Maryland. It has affiliates in all 50 >> > states (including California) as well as Washington, D.C. and Puerto >> Rico. >> > The vast majority of the approximately 50,000 members are blind >> > persons. > >> > The NFB is widely recognized by the public, Congress, executive >> > agencies > >> of >> > government and the courts as a collective and representative voice on >> behalf >> > of blind Americans and their families. The purpose of the NFB is to >> promote >> > the general welfare of the blind by (1) assisting the blind in their >> efforts >> > to integrate themselves into society on terms of equality and (2) >> removing >> > barriers and changing social attitudes, stereotypes and mistaken beliefs >> > that sighted and blind persons hold concerning the limitations created >> > by > >> > blindness resulting in the denial of opportunity to blind persons in >> > virtually every sphere of life. The NFB and many of its members have >> long >> > been actively involved in promoting adaptive technology for the blind, >> > so > >> > that blind persons can live and work independently in today's >> > technology-dependent world. NFB members reside throughout the United >> > States, including the state of California, and many of its members would >> use >> > the services of lsac.org if this website is made independently usable >> by >> > the blind. >> > >> > 7. Plaintiff the National Federation of the Blind of California >> > (hereafter "NFB of California") is a state affiliate of the National >> > Federation of the Blind. NFB of California is a California corporation >> and >> > carries out NFB's objectives at the state level. It has local chapters >> > throughout California, including Alameda County, and has its >> > headquarters > >> in >> > Fremont, California, in Alameda County. >> > >> > 8. Plaintiff Goraya is a member of the NFB and the NFB of >> > California. She is blind and has been denied full and equal access to >> the >> > accommodations, advantages, facilities and privileges of lsac.org. >> > >> > 9. Defendant LSAC, is a non-profit corporation >> > established to coordinate, facilitate, and enhance the law school >> admissions >> > process. LSAC owns, operates and/or maintains the website lsac.com, a >> > public accommodation. Plaintiffs seek access to the services provided >> > by > >> > LSAC in California through lsac.org. >> > >> > FACTS >> > >> > 10. Lsac.org is owned, controlled and/or operated by LSAC. >> Lsac.org >> > is a public accommodation that offers its visitors comprehensive >> > services > >> > for applying to law school. The website functions as the official >> > destination for guiding prospective law school applicants through the >> > fundamental steps of applying to law school. Among its services, >> lsac.orgoffers information about the LSAT and law school application >> process, and >> > extensive LSAT preparation materials and resources. Lsac.org also >> > serves > >> as >> > the exclusive online means for registering for the LSAT and applying to >> > ABA-accredited law schools. >> > >> > 11. According to the website, lsac.org's online services enable >> > prospective law students to do the following, among other things: >> > >> > a.. Register for the LSAT >> > b.. Register for the LSDAS (Law School Data Assembly Service) >> > c.. Purchase publications and test preparation materials >> > d.. Have access to electronic applications for all ABA-approved law >> > schools >> > e.. Apply online to law schools >> > f.. Register for law school forums >> > g.. Have 24-hour file access >> > 12. In addition to facilitating the LSAT and law school application >> > processes, a significant portion of the lsac.org website is devoted to >> > preparing students to take the LSAT. Among the services offered in that >> > regard are online information guides that explain how to prepare for the >> > LSAT and free, downloadable sample practice tests and test questions. >> > Lsac.org also offers for a fee an online LSAT practice test tool and >> > the > >> > opportunity to purchase more than 40 official LSAT practice tests. >> > >> > 13. While sighted visitors to lsac.org can easily obtain the benefits >> and >> > advantages offered by the website, blind individuals, including Ms. >> Goraya, >> > have been and are being denied access to lsac.org due to LSAC's failure >> > and refusal to remove access barriers to lsac.org. Specifically, blind >> > visitors to the website, including Ms. Goraya, cannot independently >> > apply > >> to >> > law school, register for the LSAT, or obtain in an accessible format the >> > LSAT preparation materials and practice tests available through >> lsac.org >> . >> > >> > 14. The blind access websites by using keyboards in conjunction >> with >> > screen-reading software. This software vocalizes or conveys to a >> refreshable >> > Braille display information that appears visually on a computer screen. >> > Unless websites are designed to allow for use in this manner, blind >> persons >> > are unable to fully access the internet websites and the information, >> > products and services contained therein. >> > >> > 15. There are well-established guidelines for making websites >> > accessible to the blind. These guidelines have been in place for at >> least >> > several years and have been followed successfully by other public >> > accommodations in making their online services accessible. The Web >> > Accessibility Initiative (WAI), a project of the World Wide Web >> Consortium, >> > which is the leading standards organization for the Web, has developed >> > guidelines for making information that is reached via the internet >> > accessible. The federal government has also promulgated accessibility >> > standards under Section 508 of the Rehabilitation Act. These guidelines >> > have long been readily available via the internet so that any public >> > accommodation could easily secure the necessary information. >> > >> > 16. Lsac.org contains a variety of access barriers that prevent >> free >> > and full use by blind persons using keyboards and screen reading >> software. >> > These barriers include but are not limited to: lack of or improperly >> > labeled form controls; faulty keyboard navigation; and use of tables and >> > charts that are not formatted for accessibility. Form controls allow >> users >> > to input data on online forms and applications. These controls must be >> > coded and labeled to allow screen-access software to detect and vocalize >> the >> > requested information. Keyboard navigation refers to the ability to >> > successfully navigate a website using keyboard commands, as opposed to >> > requiring a mouse as the exclusive means for navigation of the site. >> > Further, charts and tables must be formatted to work with screen-access >> > software. Much of the lsac.org website, and in particular the online >> law >> > school application and LSAT registration sections of the website, lack >> these >> > fundamental accessibility components. As a result, blind visitors to >> > the > >> > website cannot independently use those and other critical features. >> > >> > 17. Lsac.org's test preparation materials that are available on >> > the > >> > website in Adobe Portable Document (PDF) format, are not properly >> "tagged." >> > This means that the headings, paragraphs, tables, image descriptions >> > and > >> > form controls are not easily discernable to screen-reading software. As >> a >> > result, these materials are cumbersome, if not impossible, for a blind >> > visitor to navigate. >> > >> > 18. Finally, lsac.org fails to offer LSAT practice tests, >> available >> > as part of its test preparation services, in formats accessible to the >> > blind. While the sighted can easily use the website to obtain more than >> 40 >> > formerly administered LSAT practice tests, the website fails to offer >> > the > >> > opportunity to purchase these practice materials in formats accessible >> > to > >> > the blind, such as Braille or an accessible electronic format. >> > >> > 19. As a result of lsac.org's accessibility barriers, blind law >> > school applicants, including Ms. Goraya, must go over extraordinary >> hurdles >> > to register and prepare for the LSAT and to apply to law school compared >> to >> > their sighted counterparts. After unsuccessfully attempting to use >> > lsac.org independently to register for the LSAT and fill out her law >> > school applications, for example, Plaintiff Goraya was forced to select >> and >> > rely upon a reader for over 50 hours simply to read aloud the content of >> the >> > website and complete her law school applications. Moreover, none of the >> > LSAT practice materials, which include previously administered versions >> of >> > the test, were available to her in accessible electronic formats. >> Lsac.org >> > thus contains numerous access barriers which deny full and equal access >> to >> > Plaintiff, who would otherwise use the accommodations, advantages, and >> > facilities of lsac.org. >> > >> > 20. On December 10, 2008, Plaintiff National Federation of the >> Blind >> > notified LSAC of the unlawful accessibility barriers on its website. >> LSAC >> > responded by setting up and then canceling a meeting with the NFB. On >> > January 22, 2009, the NFB notified LSAC that it intended to pursue legal >> > action against LSAC for the unlawful barriers on its website. >> > >> > FIRST CAUSE OF ACTION >> > >> > (Violation of Cal. Civ. Code §§ 54, et seq. - the Disabled Persons Act) >> > >> > 21. The allegations contained in the previous paragraphs are >> > incorporated by reference. >> > >> > 22. The Disabled Persons Act ("DPA") requires that individuals >> > with > >> > disabilities have "full and equal access, as other members of the >> > general > >> > public, to accommodations, advantages, facilities, . . . and other >> > places > >> to >> > which the general public is invited, subject only to the conditions and >> > limitations established by law, or state or federal regulation, and >> > applicable alike to all persons." Cal. Civ. Code 54.1(a)(1). >> > >> > 23. Lsac.org, which is owned, operated and/or maintained by LSAC, >> is >> > an >> > >> > accommodation, advantage, facility and/or place to which the general >> public >> > is invited, as those terms are used in Cal. Civ. Code § 54.1(a)(1). >> > >> > 24. Defendant's conduct alleged herein violates the DPA, including >> > Cal. Civ. Code § 54.1(a)(1), by denying the Plaintiffs full and equal >> access >> > to the accommodations, advantages and facilities of lsac.org. >> > >> > 25. As a result of Defendant's conduct, the NFB, the NFB of >> > California, and Ms. Goraya are entitled to injunctive relief requiring >> > Defendant to make lsac.org accessible to blind individuals, and to make >> > the LSAT test practice materials offered to lsac.org patrons available >> to >> > blind people in an accessible format. >> > >> > SECOND CAUSE OF ACTION >> > >> > (Violation of Cal.Civ. Code §§ 51, et seq. - The Unruh Act) >> > >> > 26. The allegations contained in the previous paragraphs are >> > incorporated by reference. >> > >> > 27. California's Unruh Act requires that individuals with >> > disabilities have "full and equal accommodations, advantages, >> > facilities, > >> > privileges or services in all business establishments of every kind >> > whatsoever." Cal. Civ. Code § 51(b). >> > >> > 28. LSAC and Lsac.org are business establishments as that term is >> > used in Cal. Civ. Code § 51(b) and lsac.org is an accommodation, >> > advantage, facility, privilege and service of LSAC. >> > >> > 29. Defendant's conduct alleged herein violates the Unruh Act, >> > including Cal. Civ. Code § 51(b), by denying Plaintiffs the full and >> equal >> > accommodations, advantages, facilities, privileges or services of LSAC >> and >> > lsac.org. >> > >> > 30. Defendant violated the Unruh Act intentionally and/or with >> > deliberate indifference to the likelihood that it was violating the >> rights >> > of blind people and/or Defendant's violations were so intuitive or >> obvious >> > that noncompliance could not be other than intentional. >> > >> > 31. As a result of Defendant's conduct, the NFB, the NFB of >> > California, and Ms. Goraya are entitled to injunctive relief requiring >> > Defendant to make lsac.org accessible to blind individuals, and to make >> > the LSAT test practice materials offered to lsac.org patrons available >> to >> > blind people in an accessible format. >> > >> > >> > >> > THIRD CAUSE OF ACTION >> > >> > (Declaratory Relief, Cal. Civ. Proc. § 1060 ) >> > >> > 32. The allegations contained in the previous paragraphs are >> > incorporated by reference. >> > >> > 33. On information and belief, Defendants contend that they may >> > lawfully deny Plaintiffs access to their website and its contents. >> > Plaintiffs contend that lsac.org, which LSAC owns, operates, and/or >> > controls, must provide blind patrons access to its website and website >> > contents under California Civil Code §§ 54, et seq. and California Civil >> > Code §§ 51, et seq., which prohibit discrimination against the blind. >> > >> > 34. A judicial declaration is necessary and appropriate at this >> time >> > in order that each of the parties may know their respective rights and >> > duties and act accordingly. >> > >> > WHEREFORE, Plaintiffs request relief as set forth below. >> > >> > RELIEF REQUESTED >> > >> > WHEREFORE, Plaintiffs pray for judgment as follows: >> > >> > 1. An order enjoining LSAC from violating California >> > Civil Code §§ 51, et seq. and §§ 54, et seq.; >> > >> > 2. A declaration that LSAC is owning, maintaining >> and/or >> > operating lsac.org in a manner which discriminates against the blind >> and >> > which fails to provide access for persons with disabilities as required >> by >> > law; >> > >> > 3. Plaintiffs' reasonable attorneys' fees and costs >> > as > >> > authorized by California California Civil Code §§ 54, et seq., >> > California > >> > Civil Code §§ 51, et seq., and pursuant to California Code of Civil >> > Procedure § 1021.5. >> > >> > 4. Such other and further relief as the Court deems >> just >> > and proper. >> > >> > >> > >> > DATED: >> > DISABILITY RIGHTS ADVOCATES >> > >> > >> > >> > >> By: >> > ____________________________ >> > >> > >> > Laurence W. Paradis >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. >> > >> > LaBarre Law Offices P.C. >> > 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 >> > Denver, Colorado 80222 >> > 303 504-5979 (voice) >> > 303 757-3640 (fax) >> > slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) >> > www.labarrelaw.com (website) >> > >> > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and >> > privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may >> not >> > read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this >> message >> > in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or >> > slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. >> This >> > message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic >> > Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. >> > _______________________________________________ >> > blindlaw mailing list >> > blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> > blindlaw: >> > >> > >> >> >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b75205%40gmail.com > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> >> >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/bspiry%40comcast.n > >> et >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> >> >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b75205%40gmail.com > >> >> _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/bspiry%40comcast.n > et > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b75205%40gmail.com > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: James_Pepper.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 63315 bytes Desc: not available URL: From dennisgclark at sbcglobal.net Sat Mar 14 01:15:39 2009 From: dennisgclark at sbcglobal.net (Dennis Clark) Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 18:15:39 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target References: <549FC55C53E54BA5814FA71C231CE71F@StevePC> Message-ID: <001301c9a442$63a1e180$6401a8c0@server> They were damaged in that they were not able to place orders on Targets website using screen readers. As a result you would have to make purchases on the Target website using sighted assistance, likely paid assistance, or you would have to go to a Target store. If retailers like Target do not wish to make their websites available to all people, all they need to do is take the website down, and we can all go to the store in person to make our purchases. All the best, Dennis ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. Deeley" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 1:31 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > This is ridiculous! How were these people damaged? > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mehgan Sidhu" > To: > Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 3:20 PM > Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > >> To answer the recent questions posted about the Target case, the final >> settlement hearing took place on March 9th. I understand from our >> counsel in California, Larry Paradis of DRA and Josh Konecky, that there >> were no objectors and the Judge was pleased with the resolution of the >> case. The settlement is not fully "final" until the time for any >> appeals has run - which is about 30 days. Given there were no objectors, >> it is highly unlikely that any appeals will be filed. The judge has not >> yet made a ruling on attorneys fees, but that will not hold up >> enforcement of the settlement. >> >> >> >> As for disbursements, assuming there are no appeals, the claims >> administer has 45 days from the final approval date to disburse funds to >> claimants. I do not know the final tally of approved claimants, though I >> think there were several hundred. I will pass that information along >> when I have it. >> >> >> >> We will now be working on enforcing the settlement commitments that >> Target made with respect to the accessibility of the website. >> >> >> Mehgan Sidhu >> Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP >> 120 East Baltimore Street, Suite 1700 >> Baltimore, Maryland 21202 >> 410-962-1030 x1324 >> 410-385-0869 (fax) >> ms at browngold.com >> www.browngold.com >> >> Confidentiality Notice >> >> This e-mail may contain confidential information that may also be legally >> privileged and that is intended only for the use of the addressee(s) >> named above. If you are not the intended recipient or an authorized >> agent of the recipient, please be advised that any dissemination or >> copying of this e-mail, or taking of any action in reliance on the >> information contained herein, is strictly prohibited. If you have >> received this e-mail in error, please notify me immediately by use of the >> reply button, and then delete the e-mail from your system. Thank you! >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release Date: 03/13/09 > 05:59:00 > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dennisgclark%40sbcglobal.net From stevep.deeley at insightbb.com Sat Mar 14 01:20:11 2009 From: stevep.deeley at insightbb.com (Steve P. Deeley) Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 21:20:11 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target In-Reply-To: References: <549FC55C53E54BA5814FA71C231CE71F@StevePC> Message-ID: Well, sign me up. There are dozens of Web sites a year that I can't access. This is just ridiculous. This is, exactly, what raises the cost of doing business for companies. I'm not condoning Target's continuing unwillingness to deal with their inaccessible web site, however, there is no way that an individual is damaged to the tune of $4,000.00. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mehgan Sidhu" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 5:02 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > Steve, > > In addition to the ADA claim, the lawsuit was brought under California's > Unruh Act and Disabled Person's Act, both of which provide for minimum > statutory damages ($4,000 and $1,000 per violation, respectively). Under > the agreement, members of the California class who are legally blind, had > attempted to use Target.com between February 7, 2003 and December 9, 2008, > and experienced significant barriers were eligible for damages of up to > $3,500 per violation for a maximum of 2 violations. > > A copy of the settlement is available at the following site: > http://www.nfbtargetlawsuit.com/final_settlement.html > > Mehgan Sidhu > Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP > 120 East Baltimore Street, Suite 1700 > Baltimore, Maryland 21202 > 410-962-1030 x1324 > 410-385-0869 (fax) > ms at browngold.com > www.browngold.com > > Confidentiality Notice > > This e-mail may contain confidential information that may also be legally > privileged and that is intended only for the use of the addressee(s) named > above. If you are not the intended recipient or an authorized agent of > the recipient, please be advised that any dissemination or copying of this > e-mail, or taking of any action in reliance on the information contained > herein, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in > error, please notify me immediately by use of the reply button, and then > delete the e-mail from your system. Thank you! > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley > Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 4:31 PM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > This is ridiculous! How were these people damaged? > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mehgan Sidhu" > To: > Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 3:20 PM > Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > >> To answer the recent questions posted about the Target case, the final >> settlement hearing took place on March 9th. I understand from our >> counsel >> in California, Larry Paradis of DRA and Josh Konecky, that there were no >> objectors and the Judge was pleased with the resolution of the case. >> The >> settlement is not fully "final" until the time for any appeals has run - >> which is about 30 days. Given there were no objectors, it is highly >> unlikely that any appeals will be filed. The judge has not yet made a >> ruling on attorneys fees, but that will not hold up enforcement of the >> settlement. >> >> >> >> As for disbursements, assuming there are no appeals, the claims >> administer >> has 45 days from the final approval date to disburse funds to claimants. >> I do not know the final tally of approved claimants, though I think there >> were several hundred. I will pass that information along when I have it. >> >> >> >> We will now be working on enforcing the settlement commitments that >> Target >> made with respect to the accessibility of the website. >> >> >> Mehgan Sidhu >> Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP >> 120 East Baltimore Street, Suite 1700 >> Baltimore, Maryland 21202 >> 410-962-1030 x1324 >> 410-385-0869 (fax) >> ms at browngold.com >> www.browngold.com >> >> Confidentiality Notice >> >> This e-mail may contain confidential information that may also be legally >> privileged and that is intended only for the use of the addressee(s) >> named >> above. If you are not the intended recipient or an authorized agent of >> the recipient, please be advised that any dissemination or copying of >> this >> e-mail, or taking of any action in reliance on the information contained >> herein, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in >> error, please notify me immediately by use of the reply button, and then >> delete the e-mail from your system. Thank you! >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release Date: 03/13/09 > 05:59:00 > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ms%40browngold.com > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release Date: 03/13/09 05:59:00 From stevep.deeley at insightbb.com Sat Mar 14 01:22:41 2009 From: stevep.deeley at insightbb.com (Steve P. Deeley) Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 21:22:41 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target In-Reply-To: References: <549FC55C53E54BA5814FA71C231CE71F@StevePC> Message-ID: <489BACB231A24B1494701FE7E81396B8@StevePC> That is a lawyer talking who makes his living in rediculous situations like this one. Again, you show me how an individual was damaged and out $4,000.00. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott C. LaBarre" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 5:38 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target Violation of civil rights has long been recognized as a form of compensible legal damage as well it should be. Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. LaBarre Law Offices P.C. 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 Denver, Colorado 80222 303 504-5979 (voice) 303 757-3640 (fax) slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) www.labarrelaw.com (website) CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. Deeley" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 2:31 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > This is ridiculous! How were these people damaged? > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mehgan Sidhu" > To: > Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 3:20 PM > Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > >> To answer the recent questions posted about the Target case, the final >> settlement hearing took place on March 9th. I understand from our >> counsel in California, Larry Paradis of DRA and Josh Konecky, that there >> were no objectors and the Judge was pleased with the resolution of the >> case. The settlement is not fully "final" until the time for any >> appeals has run - which is about 30 days. Given there were no objectors, >> it is highly unlikely that any appeals will be filed. The judge has not >> yet made a ruling on attorneys fees, but that will not hold up >> enforcement of the settlement. >> >> >> >> As for disbursements, assuming there are no appeals, the claims >> administer has 45 days from the final approval date to disburse funds to >> claimants. I do not know the final tally of approved claimants, though I >> think there were several hundred. I will pass that information along >> when I have it. >> >> >> >> We will now be working on enforcing the settlement commitments that >> Target made with respect to the accessibility of the website. >> >> >> Mehgan Sidhu >> Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP >> 120 East Baltimore Street, Suite 1700 >> Baltimore, Maryland 21202 >> 410-962-1030 x1324 >> 410-385-0869 (fax) >> ms at browngold.com >> www.browngold.com >> >> Confidentiality Notice >> >> This e-mail may contain confidential information that may also be legally >> privileged and that is intended only for the use of the addressee(s) >> named above. If you are not the intended recipient or an authorized >> agent of the recipient, please be advised that any dissemination or >> copying of this e-mail, or taking of any action in reliance on the >> information contained herein, is strictly prohibited. If you have >> received this e-mail in error, please notify me immediately by use of the >> reply button, and then delete the e-mail from your system. Thank you! >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release Date: 03/13/09 > 05:59:00 > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/slabarre%40labarrelaw.com > _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release Date: 03/13/09 05:59:00 From carter.tjoseph at gmail.com Sat Mar 14 02:49:16 2009 From: carter.tjoseph at gmail.com (T. Joseph Carter) Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 19:49:16 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target In-Reply-To: References: <549FC55C53E54BA5814FA71C231CE71F@StevePC> Message-ID: <20090314024916.GB82715@yumi.bluecherry.net> The NFB contacted Target. Target was asked to fix it. They said no. This "cost of doing business" is self-inflicted. Joseph On Fri, Mar 13, 2009 at 09:20:11PM -0400, Steve P. Deeley wrote: > Well, sign me up. There are dozens of Web sites a year that I can't > access. This is just ridiculous. This is, exactly, what raises the cost > of doing business for companies. I'm not condoning Target's continuing > unwillingness to deal with their inaccessible > web site, however, there is no way that an individual is damaged to the > tune of $4,000.00. > Steve From roddj12 at hotmail.com Sat Mar 14 04:24:11 2009 From: roddj12 at hotmail.com (Rod Alcidonis) Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 00:24:11 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target References: <549FC55C53E54BA5814FA71C231CE71F@StevePC> Message-ID: Steve: If you are not an attorney or a law student, we may be arguing and understanding different concepts here. "Damage" is a legal concept, and if not used in that sense can certainly lead to ridiculous understanding. A damage award allows a plaintiff to be compensated for the harm caused by the defendant. Damages take various forms: physical harm, emotional harm, loss wages, etc. Here as Scott said, the legislature has decided to make such civil rights violations compensable as damages. It is a legal recognition that a harm was caused, and it was caused to the plaintiff. The harm here was violations of federal and State civil rights. I hope that helps. Rod Alcidonis Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009. Roger Williams University School of Law 10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 Bristol, RI 02809 Cell: 718-704-4651 Home: 401-824-8685 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. Deeley" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 9:20 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > Well, sign me up. There are dozens of Web sites a year that I can't > access. This is just ridiculous. This is, exactly, what raises the cost > of doing business for companies. I'm not condoning Target's continuing > unwillingness to deal with their inaccessible > web site, however, there is no way that an individual is damaged to the > tune of $4,000.00. > Steve > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mehgan Sidhu" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 5:02 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > >> Steve, >> >> In addition to the ADA claim, the lawsuit was brought under California's >> Unruh Act and Disabled Person's Act, both of which provide for minimum >> statutory damages ($4,000 and $1,000 per violation, respectively). Under >> the agreement, members of the California class who are legally blind, had >> attempted to use Target.com between February 7, 2003 and December 9, >> 2008, and experienced significant barriers were eligible for damages of >> up to $3,500 per violation for a maximum of 2 violations. >> >> A copy of the settlement is available at the following site: >> http://www.nfbtargetlawsuit.com/final_settlement.html >> >> Mehgan Sidhu >> Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP >> 120 East Baltimore Street, Suite 1700 >> Baltimore, Maryland 21202 >> 410-962-1030 x1324 >> 410-385-0869 (fax) >> ms at browngold.com >> www.browngold.com >> >> Confidentiality Notice >> >> This e-mail may contain confidential information that may also be legally >> privileged and that is intended only for the use of the addressee(s) >> named above. If you are not the intended recipient or an authorized >> agent of the recipient, please be advised that any dissemination or >> copying of this e-mail, or taking of any action in reliance on the >> information contained herein, is strictly prohibited. If you have >> received this e-mail in error, please notify me immediately by use of the >> reply button, and then delete the e-mail from your system. Thank you! >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley >> Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 4:31 PM >> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target >> >> This is ridiculous! How were these people damaged? >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Mehgan Sidhu" >> To: >> Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 3:20 PM >> Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target >> >> >>> To answer the recent questions posted about the Target case, the final >>> settlement hearing took place on March 9th. I understand from our >>> counsel >>> in California, Larry Paradis of DRA and Josh Konecky, that there were no >>> objectors and the Judge was pleased with the resolution of the case. The >>> settlement is not fully "final" until the time for any appeals has run - >>> which is about 30 days. Given there were no objectors, it is highly >>> unlikely that any appeals will be filed. The judge has not yet made a >>> ruling on attorneys fees, but that will not hold up enforcement of the >>> settlement. >>> >>> >>> >>> As for disbursements, assuming there are no appeals, the claims >>> administer >>> has 45 days from the final approval date to disburse funds to claimants. >>> I do not know the final tally of approved claimants, though I think >>> there >>> were several hundred. I will pass that information along when I have >>> it. >>> >>> >>> >>> We will now be working on enforcing the settlement commitments that >>> Target >>> made with respect to the accessibility of the website. >>> >>> >>> Mehgan Sidhu >>> Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP >>> 120 East Baltimore Street, Suite 1700 >>> Baltimore, Maryland 21202 >>> 410-962-1030 x1324 >>> 410-385-0869 (fax) >>> ms at browngold.com >>> www.browngold.com >>> >>> Confidentiality Notice >>> >>> This e-mail may contain confidential information that may also be >>> legally >>> privileged and that is intended only for the use of the addressee(s) >>> named >>> above. If you are not the intended recipient or an authorized agent of >>> the recipient, please be advised that any dissemination or copying of >>> this >>> e-mail, or taking of any action in reliance on the information contained >>> herein, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in >>> error, please notify me immediately by use of the reply button, and then >>> delete the e-mail from your system. Thank you! >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release Date: >> 03/13/09 >> 05:59:00 >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ms%40browngold.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release Date: 03/13/09 > 05:59:00 > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail.com > From angie at mpmail.net Sat Mar 14 04:54:38 2009 From: angie at mpmail.net (Angie Matney) Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 00:54:38 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. lsac complaint In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Now=20that=20the=20ABA=20advises=20schools=20to=20only=20consider=20the=20= highest=20score,=20it=20would=20seem=20to=20be=20less=20likely=20that=20a=20= low=20first=20score=20would=20be=20considered=20irreparable=20harm. Angie On=20Fri,=2013=20Mar=202009=2002:31:57=20-0400,=20Rod=20Alcidonis=20wrote:= >Well,=20academically=20speaking,=20the=20law=20suit=20could=20have=20pray= ed=20for=20a=20Temporary=20 >Restraining=20Order,=20or=20a=20preliminary=20Injunction=20against=20the=20= LSAC=20for=20folks=20 >like=20you.=20Basically=20enjoined=20the=20LSAC=20from=20administering=20= the=20exam=20until=20they=20 >make=20the=20changes.=20The=20only=20difficulty=20with=20that=20I=20think= =20justifies=20the=20reason=20 >they=20probably=20did=20not=20pray=20for=20such=20a=20relief=20is=20that=20= such=20a=20measure=20would=20 >cause=20too=20much=20harm=20to=20the=20public,=20I.E,=20the=20thousands=20= of=20law=20students=20and=20 >schools=20who=20rely=20on=20the=20exam=20to=20make=20admissions=20decisio= ns.=20Such=20an=20order=20 >while=20it=20would=20have=20forced=20the=20LSAC=20to=20make=20the=20chang= es=20much=20faster,=20it=20 >would=20have=20unreasonably=20halted=20the=20system=20for=20some=20times.= =20If=20it=20were=20a=20class=20 >action=20with=20thousands=20of=20members,=20it=20probably=20would=20have=20= been=20easier=20to=20 >argue,=20I=20think.=20Whether=20not=20passing=20an=20exam=20for=20the=20f= irst=20time=20is=20considered=20 >irreparable=20harm=20is=20another=20question=20--=20you=20can=20still=20m= ake=20the=20argument=20 >under=20these=20circumstances. >Rod=20Alcidonis >Juris=20Doctor=20Candidate,=202009. >Roger=20Williams=20University=20School=20of=20Law >10=20Metacom=20Ave.,=20Box:=209003 >Bristol,=20RI=2002809 >Cell:=20718-704-4651 >Home:=20401-824-8685 >-----=20Original=20Message=20-----=20 >From:=20"Bill=20Spiry"=20 >To:=20"'NFBnet=20Blind=20Law=20Mailing=20List'"=20 >Sent:=20Wednesday,=20March=2011,=202009=209:52=20PM >Subject:=20Re:=20[blindlaw]=20nfb=20v.=20lsac=20complaint >I=20understand.=20What=20might=20be=20done=20to=20getLSAC=20to=20authoriz= e=20use=20of=20this >material=20as=20an=20accessible=20alternative=20to=20what=20they=20have=20= to=20offer?=20I=20know=20NFB >is=20sueing=20them,=20but=20in=20the=20mean=20time=20that=20leaves=20folk= s=20like=20me=20who=20don't >have=20the=20Adobe=20skills=20you=20have,=20and=20facing=20the=20LSAT=20s= oon=20=20without=20accessible >matter.=20Any=20ideas=20or=20suggestions? >Thanks. >-----Original=20Message----- >From:=20blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org=20[mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org= ]=20On >Behalf=20Of=20James=20Pepper >Sent:=20Tuesday,=20March=2010,=202009=2010:43=20AM >To:=20NFBnet=20Blind=20Law=20Mailing=20List >Subject:=20Re:=20[blindlaw]=20nfb=20v.=20lsac=20complaint >Well=20Bill=20the=20content=20is=20copyrighted=20by=20LSAC=20so=20I=20am=20= not=20sure=20I=20can=20send >this=20to=20you.=20Perhaps=20some=20on=20this=20list=20can=20give=20that=20= advice.=20I=20laid=20it=20out >properly. >James >On=20Tue,=20Mar=2010,=202009=20at=209:05=20AM,=20Bill=20Spiry=20=20wrote: >>=20I=20would=20appreciate=20receiving=20this=20as=20well.=20Thanks. >>=20bspiry at comcast.net >> >> >>=20-----Original=20Message----- >>=20From:=20blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org=20[mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet= .org]=20On >>=20Behalf=20Of=20James=20Pepper >>=20Sent:=20Tuesday,=20March=2010,=202009=201:46=20AM >>=20To:=20NFBnet=20Blind=20Law=20Mailing=20List >>=20Subject:=20Re:=20[blindlaw]=20nfb=20v.=20lsac=20complaint >> >>=20=20Scott:=20I=20laid=20out=20the=20first=20section=20of=20the=20LSAT=20= to=20be=20accessible=20and=20I >>=20can >>=20send=20you=20the=20files=20if=20you=20would=20like=20to=20see=20it.=20= Also=20I=20made=20the=20form=20that >>=20they=20use=20accessible=20so=20the=20blind=20can=20fill=20out=20the=20= test=20without=20assistance. >>=20This=20works=20with=20JAWS=20and=20Window=20Eyes=20and=20a=20combinat= ion=20of=20Adobe's=20Read=20out >>=20Loud=20and=20Microsoft=20Narrator.=20=20My=20process=20works=20and=20= if=20you=20need=20references >>=20at >>=20NFB,=20AFB=20and=20the=20AAPD=20I=20can=20send=20them=20to=20you. >> >>=20It=20took=20a=20while=20to=20figure=20out=20how=20they=20made=20thier= =20pdfs=20and=20I=20know=20where >>=20they >>=20are=20making=20their=20mistakes.=20I=20can=20correct=20this=20problem= .=20=20These=20PDFs=20are >made >>=20to=20work=20natively=20with=20JAWS=20and=20Adobe=20Reader=20and=20the= =20other=20screen=20readers >>=20without=20making=20any=20adjustments.=20=20They=20work=20with=20the=20= default=20settings=20in >>=20Adobe=20Reader. >> >>=20Also=20the=20forms=20can=20be=20digitally=20signed=20and=20saved=20an= d=20all=20that=20fancy=20stuff >>=20that=20you=20expect=20with=20Adobe=20Acrobat=20Professional=20can=20b= e=20done=20with >>=20Adobe=20Reader,=20versions=208=20or=209=20which=20is=20the=20free=20d= ownload=20from=20Adobe.com. >>=20=20So >>=20we=20can=20make=20the=20LSAT=20accessible=20to=20anyone=20with=20a=20= PC=20running=20Windows=20XP=20Or >>=20VIsta=20without=20any=20change=20of=20settings.=20=20This=20means=20t= he=20PC=20can=20be=20there=20for >>=20the=20sighted=20and=20the=20blind,=20with=20equal=20access=20for=20al= l. >> >>=20Also=20since=20I=20labeled=20everything,=20it=20will=20be=20a=20lot=20= quicker=20for=20you=20to=20fill >>=20out=20this=20test! >> >>=20Sincerely, >> >>=20James=20G.=20Pepper >> >> >> >>=20On=20Thu,=20Feb=2019,=202009=20at=204:32=20PM,=20Scott=20C.=20LaBarre= >>=20wrote: >> >>=20>=20Below=20I=20am=20sharing=20the=20complaint=20that=20we=20filed=20= today=20in=20California >Court. >>=20>=20************** >>=20>=20LaurEnce=20W.=20paradis=20(California=20Bar=20No.=20122336) >>=20> >>=20>=20Anna=20levine=20=20(California=20Bar=20No.=20227881) >>=20> >>=20>=20Disability=20Rights=20Advocates >>=20> >>=20>=202001=20Center=20Street,=20Third=20Floor >>=20> >>=20>=20Berkeley,=20California=2094704 >>=20> >>=20>=20Telephone:=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20(510)=20665-8644 >>=20> >>=20>=20Facsimile:=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20(510)=20665-8511 >>=20> >>=20>=20TTY:=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20(510)=20665-8= 716 >>=20> >>=20> >>=20> >>=20>=20SCOTT=20LABARRE=20(to=20seek=20pro=20hac=20vice=20admission) >>=20> >>=20>=20LABARRE=20LAW=20OFFICES,=20P.C. >>=20> >>=20>=201660=20S.=20Albion=20Street,=20Ste=20918 >>=20> >>=20>=20Denver,=20Colo=20=2080222 >>=20> >>=20>=20Telephone:=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20(303)=20504-5979 >>=20> >>=20>=20Fax:=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20(303)=20= 757-3640 >>=20> >>=20> >>=20> >>=20>=20DANIEL=20F.=20GOLDSTEIN=20(to=20seek=20pro=20hac=20vice=20admissi= on) >>=20> >>=20>=20MEHGAN=20Sidhu=20(to=20seek=20pro=20hac=20vice=20admission) >>=20> >>=20>=20Brown,=20Goldstein=20&=20Levy,=20LLP >>=20> >>=20>=20120=20E.=20Baltimore=20St.,=20Suite=201700 >>=20> >>=20>=20Baltimore,=20MD=2021202 >>=20> >>=20>=20Telephone:=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20(410)=20962-1030 >>=20> >>=20>=20Fax:=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20(410)=20= 385-0869 >>=20> >>=20> >>=20> >>=20>=20SUPERIOR=20COURT=20OF=20THE=20STATE=20OF=20CALIFORNIA >>=20>=20COUNTY=20OF=20ALAMEDA >>=20> >>=20> >>=20> >>=20>=20=20=20=20=20=20National=20Federation=20of=20the=20Blind,=20the=20= National=20Federation=20of=20the >>=20Blind >>=20>=20of=20CALIFORNIA,=20and=20DEEPA=20GORAYA, >>=20> >>=20> >>=20> >>=20>=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20= =20=20=20=20=20=20=20Plaintiffs, >>=20> >>=20>=20=20=20=20=20=20v. >>=20> >>=20>=20=20=20=20=20=20LAW=20SCHOOL=20ADMISSION=20COUNCIL,=20INC., >>=20> >>=20>=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20= =20=20=20=20=20=20=20Defendant. >>=20> >>=20> >>=20> >>=20>=20=20=20=20=20Case=20No.: >>=20> >>=20> >>=20> >>=20> >>=20> >>=20>=20=20=20=20=20=20COMPLAINT=20FOR=20INJUNCTIVE=20AND=20DECLARATORY=20= RELIEF=20FOR=20VIOLATIONS=20OF >>=20THE >>=20>=20CALIFORNIA=20DISABLED=20PERSONS=20ACT=20AND=20UNRUH=20CIVIL=20RIG= HTS=20ACT >>=20> >>=20> >>=20> >>=20> >>=20>=20INTRODUCTION >>=20> >>=20>=20Plaintiffs=20complain=20of=20Defendant=20and=20allege=20herein=20= as=20follows: >>=20> >>=20>=201.=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20This=20action,=20brought=20by=20the=20= National=20Federation=20of=20the=20Blind, >>=20>=20the=20National=20Federation=20of=20the=20Blind=20of=20California,= =20and=20Deepa=20Goraya, >>=20seeks >>=20>=20to=20put=20an=20end=20to=20civil=20rights=20violations=20committe= d=20by=20defendant=20Law >>=20School >>=20>=20Admissions=20Council=20(hereafter=20"LSAC")=20against=20blind=20p= ersons=20seeking=20to >>=20take >>=20>=20the=20LSAT=20exam=20and=20apply=20to=20law=20schools.=20=20Plaint= iff=20Deepa=20Goraya,=20a=20blind >>=20law >>=20>=20school=20applicant=20in=20California,=20has=20been=20and=20is=20b= eing=20denied=20equal >access >>=20to >>=20>=20the=20accommodations,=20advantages,=20and=20facilities=20LSAC=20p= rovides=20its >>=20>=20non-disabled=20customers=20through=20http://www.lsac.org=20(herea= fter=20"lsac.org" >>=20>=20and=20"the=20website").=20=20Plaintiffs=20National=20Federation=20= of=20the=20Blind=20and=20the >>=20>=20National=20Federation=20of=20the=20Blind=20of=20California=20have= =20members=20who=20are >>=20>=20similarly=20denied=20full=20and=20equal=20access=20to=20such=20ac= commodations, >advantages >>=20>=20and=20facilities.=20=20Lsac.org=20is=20currently=20the=20only=20p= lace=20online=20where >>=20>=20prospective=20law=20students=20can=20register=20for=20the=20Law=20= School=20Admissions=20Test >>=20>=20("LSAT"),=20apply=20to=20law=20schools,=20and=20obtain=20official= =20LSAT=20test >preparation >>=20>=20materials=20and=20information.=20=20Lsac.org=20contains=20multipl= e=20access=20barriers >>=20that >>=20>=20make=20it=20difficult=20if=20not=20impossible=20for=20blind=20law= =20school=20applicants=20and >>=20LSAT >>=20>=20test=20takers=20to=20use=20the=20website=20and=20to=20obtain=20pr= actice=20materials=20without >>=20>=20sighted=20assistance.=20=20LSAC=20thus=20excludes=20the=20blind,=20= including=20Ms.=20Goraya, >>=20>=20from=20full=20and=20equal=20access=20to=20the=20accommodations,=20= advantages, >facilities, >>=20>=20and=20privileges=20of=20lsac.org. >>=20> >>=20>=20JURISDICTION >>=20> >>=20>=202.=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20This=20is=20a=20civil=20action=20und= er=20California's=20Disabled=20Persons >Act >>=20>=20(Cal.=20Civ.=20Code=20=A7=A7=2054,=20et=20seq.)=20and=20the=20Unr= uh=20Civil=20Rights=20Act=20(Cal. >Civ. >>=20>=20Code=20=A7=A7=2051,=20et=20seq.)=20and=20for=20declaratory=20reli= ef.=20=20This=20Court=20has >>=20>=20jurisdiction=20over=20the=20claims=20alleged=20herein=20pursuant=20= to=20California=20Civil >>=20>=20Code=20=A7=A7=2054,=20et=20seq.=20and=20California=20Civil=20Code= =20=A7=A7=2051,=20et=20seq.=20and >>=20California >>=20>=20Code=20of=20Civil=20Procedure=20section=201060. >>=20> >>=20>=203.=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20This=20Court=20has=20jurisdiction=20= over=20LSAC=20because=20LSAC=20is=20a >>=20>=20corporation=20authorized=20to=20do=20business=20in=20California=20= and=20LSAC=20conducts >>=20>=20substantial=20business=20in=20California.=20LSAC=20owns,=20mainta= ins=20and=20operates >its >>=20>=20website,=20lsac.org,=20throughout=20California=20and=20in=20Alame= da=20County. >>=20> >>=20> >>=20> >>=20>=20VENUE >>=20> >>=20>=204.=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20Venue=20is=20proper=20in=20Alameda=20= County=20because=20liability=20arises=20in >>=20>=20part=20in=20Alameda=20County,=20where=20the=20National=20Federati= on=20of=20the=20Blind=20of >>=20>=20California=20has=20its=20headquarters.=20=20LSAC=20has=20been=20a= nd=20is=20committing=20the >>=20acts >>=20>=20alleged=20herein=20in=20Alameda=20County,=20has=20been=20and=20is= =20violating=20the=20rights >of >>=20>=20patrons=20in=20Alameda=20County,=20and=20has=20been=20and=20is=20= causing=20injury=20to=20patrons >>=20in >>=20>=20Alameda=20County. >>=20> >>=20>=205.=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20Plaintiff=20Goraya=20is=20a=20Califo= rnia=20citizen=20and=20has=20experienced >>=20>=20injury=20in=20California=20as=20a=20result=20of=20LSAC's=20inacce= ssible=20website=20and >>=20practice >>=20>=20materials. >>=20> >>=20>=20PARTIES >>=20> >>=20>=206.=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20Plaintiff=20the=20National=20Federat= ion=20of=20the=20Blind=20(hereafter >>=20"NFB") >>=20>=20is=20a=20national=20advocacy=20organization.=20=20The=20NFB,=20th= e=20oldest=20and=20largest >>=20>=20national=20organization=20of=20blind=20persons,=20is=20a=20non-pr= ofit=20corporation=20duly >>=20>=20organized=20under=20the=20laws=20of=20the=20District=20of=20Colum= bia=20with=20its=20principal >>=20>=20place=20of=20business=20in=20Baltimore,=20Maryland.=20=20It=20has= =20affiliates=20in=20all=2050 >>=20>=20states=20(including=20California)=20as=20well=20as=20Washington,=20= D.C.=20and=20Puerto >>=20Rico. >>=20>=20=20The=20vast=20majority=20of=20the=20approximately=2050,000=20me= mbers=20are=20blind >persons. >>=20>=20=20The=20NFB=20is=20widely=20recognized=20by=20the=20public,=20Co= ngress,=20executive >agencies >>=20of >>=20>=20government=20and=20the=20courts=20as=20a=20collective=20and=20rep= resentative=20voice=20on >>=20behalf >>=20>=20of=20blind=20Americans=20and=20their=20families.=20=20The=20purpo= se=20of=20the=20NFB=20is=20to >>=20promote >>=20>=20the=20general=20welfare=20of=20the=20blind=20by=20(1)=20assisting= =20the=20blind=20in=20their >>=20efforts >>=20>=20to=20integrate=20themselves=20into=20society=20on=20terms=20of=20= equality=20and=20(2) >>=20removing >>=20>=20barriers=20and=20changing=20social=20attitudes,=20stereotypes=20a= nd=20mistaken=20beliefs >>=20>=20that=20sighted=20and=20blind=20persons=20hold=20concerning=20the=20= limitations=20created >by >>=20>=20blindness=20resulting=20in=20the=20denial=20of=20opportunity=20to= =20blind=20persons=20in >>=20>=20virtually=20every=20sphere=20of=20life.=20=20The=20NFB=20and=20ma= ny=20of=20its=20members=20have >>=20long >>=20>=20been=20actively=20involved=20in=20promoting=20adaptive=20technolo= gy=20for=20the=20blind, >so >>=20>=20that=20blind=20persons=20can=20live=20and=20work=20independently=20= in=20today's >>=20>=20technology-dependent=20world.=20=20NFB=20members=20reside=20throu= ghout=20the=20United >>=20>=20States,=20including=20the=20state=20of=20California,=20and=20many= =20of=20its=20members=20would >>=20use >>=20>=20the=20services=20of=20lsac.org=20if=20this=20website=20is=20made=20= independently=20usable=20by >>=20>=20the=20blind. >>=20> >>=20>=207.=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20Plaintiff=20the=20National=20Federat= ion=20of=20the=20Blind=20of=20California >>=20>=20(hereafter=20"NFB=20of=20California")=20is=20a=20state=20affiliat= e=20of=20the=20National >>=20>=20Federation=20of=20the=20Blind.=20=20NFB=20of=20California=20is=20= a=20California=20corporation >>=20and >>=20>=20carries=20out=20NFB's=20objectives=20at=20the=20state=20level.=20= =20It=20has=20local=20chapters >>=20>=20throughout=20California,=20including=20Alameda=20County,=20and=20= has=20its >headquarters >>=20in >>=20>=20Fremont,=20California,=20in=20Alameda=20County. >>=20> >>=20>=208.=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20Plaintiff=20Goraya=20is=20a=20member= =20of=20the=20NFB=20and=20the=20NFB=20of >>=20>=20California.=20=20She=20is=20blind=20and=20has=20been=20denied=20f= ull=20and=20equal=20access=20to >>=20the >>=20>=20accommodations,=20advantages,=20facilities=20and=20privileges=20o= f=20lsac.org. >>=20> >>=20>=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=209.=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20Def= endant=20LSAC,=20is=20a=20non-profit=20corporation >>=20>=20established=20to=20coordinate,=20facilitate,=20and=20enhance=20th= e=20law=20school >>=20admissions >>=20>=20process.=20LSAC=20owns,=20operates=20and/or=20maintains=20the=20w= ebsite=20lsac.com,=20a >>=20>=20public=20accommodation.=20=20Plaintiffs=20seek=20access=20to=20th= e=20services=20provided >by >>=20>=20LSAC=20in=20California=20through=20lsac.org. >>=20> >>=20>=20FACTS >>=20> >>=20>=2010.=20=20=20=20=20=20=20Lsac.org=20is=20owned,=20controlled=20and= /or=20operated=20by=20LSAC. >>=20=20Lsac.org >>=20>=20is=20a=20public=20accommodation=20that=20offers=20its=20visitors=20= comprehensive >services >>=20>=20for=20applying=20to=20law=20school.=20=20The=20website=20function= s=20as=20the=20official >>=20>=20destination=20for=20guiding=20prospective=20law=20school=20applic= ants=20through=20the >>=20>=20fundamental=20steps=20of=20applying=20to=20law=20school.=20=20Amo= ng=20its=20services, >>=20lsac.orgoffers=20information=20about=20the=20LSAT=20and=20law=20schoo= l=20application >>=20=20process,=20and >>=20>=20extensive=20LSAT=20preparation=20materials=20and=20resources.=20=20= Lsac.org=20also >serves >>=20as >>=20>=20the=20exclusive=20online=20means=20for=20registering=20for=20the=20= LSAT=20and=20applying=20to >>=20>=20ABA-accredited=20law=20schools. >>=20> >>=20>=2011.=20=20=20=20=20=20=20According=20to=20the=20website,=20lsac.or= g's=20online=20services=20enable >>=20>=20prospective=20law=20students=20to=20do=20the=20following,=20among= =20other=20things: >>=20> >>=20>=20=20a..=20Register=20for=20the=20LSAT >>=20>=20=20b..=20Register=20for=20the=20LSDAS=20(Law=20School=20Data=20As= sembly=20Service) >>=20>=20=20c..=20Purchase=20publications=20and=20test=20preparation=20mat= erials >>=20>=20=20d..=20Have=20access=20to=20electronic=20applications=20for=20a= ll=20ABA-approved=20law >>=20>=20schools >>=20>=20=20e..=20Apply=20online=20to=20law=20schools >>=20>=20=20f..=20Register=20for=20law=20school=20forums >>=20>=20=20g..=20Have=2024-hour=20file=20access >>=20>=2012.=20=20In=20addition=20to=20facilitating=20the=20LSAT=20and=20l= aw=20school=20application >>=20>=20processes,=20a=20significant=20portion=20of=20the=20lsac.org=20we= bsite=20is=20devoted=20to >>=20>=20preparing=20students=20to=20take=20the=20LSAT.=20=20Among=20the=20= services=20offered=20in=20that >>=20>=20regard=20are=20online=20information=20guides=20that=20explain=20h= ow=20to=20prepare=20for=20the >>=20>=20LSAT=20and=20free,=20downloadable=20sample=20practice=20tests=20a= nd=20test=20questions. >>=20>=20=20Lsac.org=20also=20offers=20for=20a=20fee=20an=20online=20LSAT=20= practice=20test=20tool=20and >the >>=20>=20opportunity=20to=20purchase=20more=20than=2040=20official=20LSAT=20= practice=20tests. >>=20> >>=20>=2013.=20=20While=20sighted=20visitors=20to=20lsac.org=20can=20easil= y=20obtain=20the=20benefits >>=20and >>=20>=20advantages=20offered=20by=20the=20website,=20blind=20individuals,= =20including=20Ms. >>=20Goraya, >>=20>=20have=20been=20and=20are=20being=20denied=20access=20to=20lsac.org= =20due=20to=20LSAC's=20failure >>=20>=20and=20refusal=20to=20remove=20access=20barriers=20to=20lsac.org.=20= =20Specifically,=20blind >>=20>=20visitors=20to=20the=20website,=20including=20Ms.=20Goraya,=20cann= ot=20independently >apply >>=20to >>=20>=20law=20school,=20register=20for=20the=20LSAT,=20or=20obtain=20in=20= an=20accessible=20format=20the >>=20>=20LSAT=20preparation=20materials=20and=20practice=20tests=20availab= le=20through=20lsac.org >>=20. >>=20> >>=20>=2014.=20=20=20=20=20=20=20The=20blind=20access=20websites=20by=20us= ing=20keyboards=20in=20conjunction >>=20with >>=20>=20screen-reading=20software.=20This=20software=20vocalizes=20or=20c= onveys=20to=20a >>=20refreshable >>=20>=20Braille=20display=20information=20that=20appears=20visually=20on=20= a=20computer=20screen. >>=20>=20=20Unless=20websites=20are=20designed=20to=20allow=20for=20use=20= in=20this=20manner,=20blind >>=20persons >>=20>=20are=20unable=20to=20fully=20access=20the=20internet=20websites=20= and=20the=20information, >>=20>=20products=20and=20services=20contained=20therein. >>=20> >>=20>=2015.=20=20=20=20=20=20=20There=20are=20well-established=20guidelin= es=20for=20making=20websites >>=20>=20accessible=20to=20the=20blind.=20=20These=20guidelines=20have=20b= een=20in=20place=20for=20at >>=20least >>=20>=20several=20years=20and=20have=20been=20followed=20successfully=20b= y=20other=20public >>=20>=20accommodations=20in=20making=20their=20online=20services=20access= ible.=20=20The=20Web >>=20>=20Accessibility=20Initiative=20(WAI),=20a=20project=20of=20the=20Wo= rld=20Wide=20Web >>=20Consortium, >>=20>=20which=20is=20the=20leading=20standards=20organization=20for=20the= =20Web,=20has=20developed >>=20>=20guidelines=20for=20making=20information=20that=20is=20reached=20v= ia=20the=20internet >>=20>=20accessible.=20=20The=20federal=20government=20has=20also=20promul= gated=20accessibility >>=20>=20standards=20under=20Section=20508=20of=20the=20Rehabilitation=20A= ct.=20=20These=20guidelines >>=20>=20have=20long=20been=20readily=20available=20via=20the=20internet=20= so=20that=20any=20public >>=20>=20accommodation=20could=20easily=20secure=20the=20necessary=20infor= mation. >>=20> >>=20>=2016.=20=20=20=20=20=20=20Lsac.org=20contains=20a=20variety=20of=20= access=20barriers=20that=20prevent >>=20free >>=20>=20and=20full=20use=20by=20blind=20persons=20using=20keyboards=20and= =20screen=20reading >>=20software. >>=20>=20=20These=20barriers=20include=20but=20are=20not=20limited=20to:=20= lack=20of=20or=20improperly >>=20>=20labeled=20form=20controls;=20faulty=20keyboard=20navigation;=20an= d=20use=20of=20tables=20and >>=20>=20charts=20that=20are=20not=20formatted=20for=20accessibility.=20=20= Form=20controls=20allow >>=20users >>=20>=20to=20input=20data=20on=20online=20forms=20and=20applications.=20=20= These=20controls=20must=20be >>=20>=20coded=20and=20labeled=20to=20allow=20screen-access=20software=20t= o=20detect=20and=20vocalize >>=20the >>=20>=20requested=20information.=20=20Keyboard=20navigation=20refers=20to= =20the=20ability=20to >>=20>=20successfully=20navigate=20a=20website=20using=20keyboard=20comman= ds,=20as=20opposed=20to >>=20>=20requiring=20a=20mouse=20as=20the=20exclusive=20means=20for=20navi= gation=20of=20the=20site. >>=20>=20=20Further,=20charts=20and=20tables=20must=20be=20formatted=20to=20= work=20with=20screen-access >>=20>=20software.=20=20Much=20of=20the=20lsac.org=20website,=20and=20in=20= particular=20the=20online >>=20law >>=20>=20school=20application=20and=20LSAT=20registration=20sections=20of=20= the=20website,=20lack >>=20these >>=20>=20fundamental=20accessibility=20components.=20=20As=20a=20result,=20= blind=20visitors=20to >the >>=20>=20website=20cannot=20independently=20use=20those=20and=20other=20cr= itical=20features. >>=20> >>=20>=2017.=20=20=20=20=20=20=20Lsac.org's=20test=20preparation=20materia= ls=20that=20are=20available=20on >the >>=20>=20website=20in=20Adobe=20Portable=20Document=20(PDF)=20format,=20ar= e=20not=20properly >>=20"tagged." >>=20>=20=20This=20means=20that=20the=20headings,=20paragraphs,=20tables,=20= image=20descriptions >and >>=20>=20form=20controls=20are=20not=20easily=20discernable=20to=20screen-= reading=20software.=20=20As >>=20a >>=20>=20result,=20these=20materials=20are=20cumbersome,=20if=20not=20impo= ssible,=20for=20a=20blind >>=20>=20visitor=20to=20navigate. >>=20> >>=20>=2018.=20=20=20=20=20=20=20Finally,=20lsac.org=20fails=20to=20offer=20= LSAT=20practice=20tests, >>=20available >>=20>=20as=20part=20of=20its=20test=20preparation=20services,=20in=20form= ats=20accessible=20to=20the >>=20>=20blind.=20=20While=20the=20sighted=20can=20easily=20use=20the=20we= bsite=20to=20obtain=20more=20than >>=2040 >>=20>=20formerly=20administered=20LSAT=20practice=20tests,=20the=20websit= e=20fails=20to=20offer >the >>=20>=20opportunity=20to=20purchase=20these=20practice=20materials=20in=20= formats=20accessible >to >>=20>=20the=20blind,=20such=20as=20Braille=20or=20an=20accessible=20elect= ronic=20format. >>=20> >>=20>=2019.=20=20=20=20=20=20=20As=20a=20result=20of=20lsac.org's=20acces= sibility=20barriers,=20blind=20law >>=20>=20school=20applicants,=20including=20Ms.=20Goraya,=20must=20go=20ov= er=20extraordinary >>=20hurdles >>=20>=20to=20register=20and=20prepare=20for=20the=20LSAT=20and=20to=20app= ly=20to=20law=20school=20compared >>=20to >>=20>=20their=20sighted=20counterparts.=20=20After=20unsuccessfully=20att= empting=20to=20use >>=20>=20lsac.org=20independently=20to=20register=20for=20the=20LSAT=20and= =20fill=20out=20her=20law >>=20>=20school=20applications,=20for=20example,=20Plaintiff=20Goraya=20wa= s=20forced=20to=20select >>=20and >>=20>=20rely=20upon=20a=20reader=20for=20over=2050=20hours=20simply=20to=20= read=20aloud=20the=20content=20of >>=20the >>=20>=20website=20and=20complete=20her=20law=20school=20applications.=20=20= Moreover,=20none=20of=20the >>=20>=20LSAT=20practice=20materials,=20which=20include=20previously=20adm= inistered=20versions >>=20of >>=20>=20the=20test,=20were=20available=20to=20her=20in=20accessible=20ele= ctronic=20formats. >>=20Lsac.org >>=20>=20thus=20contains=20numerous=20access=20barriers=20which=20deny=20f= ull=20and=20equal=20access >>=20to >>=20>=20Plaintiff,=20who=20would=20otherwise=20use=20the=20accommodations= ,=20advantages,=20and >>=20>=20facilities=20of=20lsac.org. >>=20> >>=20>=2020.=20=20=20=20=20=20=20On=20December=2010,=202008,=20Plaintiff=20= National=20Federation=20of=20the >>=20Blind >>=20>=20notified=20LSAC=20of=20the=20unlawful=20accessibility=20barriers=20= on=20its=20website. >>=20=20LSAC >>=20>=20responded=20by=20setting=20up=20and=20then=20canceling=20a=20meet= ing=20with=20the=20NFB.=20=20On >>=20>=20January=2022,=202009,=20the=20NFB=20notified=20LSAC=20that=20it=20= intended=20to=20pursue=20legal >>=20>=20action=20against=20LSAC=20for=20the=20unlawful=20barriers=20on=20= its=20website. >>=20> >>=20>=20FIRST=20CAUSE=20OF=20ACTION >>=20> >>=20>=20(Violation=20of=20Cal.=20Civ.=20Code=20=A7=A7=2054,=20et=20seq.=20= -=20the=20Disabled=20Persons=20Act) >>=20> >>=20>=2021.=20=20=20=20=20=20=20The=20allegations=20contained=20in=20the=20= previous=20paragraphs=20are >>=20>=20incorporated=20by=20reference. >>=20> >>=20>=2022.=20=20=20=20=20=20=20The=20Disabled=20Persons=20Act=20("DPA")=20= requires=20that=20individuals >with >>=20>=20disabilities=20have=20"full=20and=20equal=20access,=20as=20other=20= members=20of=20the >general >>=20>=20public,=20to=20accommodations,=20advantages,=20facilities,=20.=20= .=20.=20and=20other >places >>=20to >>=20>=20which=20the=20general=20public=20is=20invited,=20subject=20only=20= to=20the=20conditions=20and >>=20>=20limitations=20established=20by=20law,=20or=20state=20or=20federal= =20regulation,=20and >>=20>=20applicable=20alike=20to=20all=20persons."=20=20Cal.=20Civ.=20Code= =2054.1(a)(1). >>=20> >>=20>=2023.=20=20=20=20=20=20=20Lsac.org,=20which=20is=20owned,=20operate= d=20and/or=20maintained=20by=20LSAC, >>=20is >>=20>=20an >>=20> >>=20>=20accommodation,=20advantage,=20facility=20and/or=20place=20to=20wh= ich=20the=20general >>=20public >>=20>=20is=20invited,=20as=20those=20terms=20are=20used=20in=20Cal.=20Civ= .=20Code=20=A7=2054.1(a)(1). >>=20> >>=20>=2024.=20=20=20=20=20=20=20Defendant's=20conduct=20alleged=20herein=20= violates=20the=20DPA,=20including >>=20>=20Cal.=20Civ.=20Code=20=A7=2054.1(a)(1),=20by=20denying=20the=20Pla= intiffs=20full=20and=20equal >>=20access >>=20>=20to=20the=20accommodations,=20advantages=20and=20facilities=20of=20= lsac.org. >>=20> >>=20>=2025.=20=20=20=20=20=20=20As=20a=20result=20of=20Defendant's=20cond= uct,=20the=20NFB,=20the=20NFB=20of >>=20>=20California,=20and=20Ms.=20Goraya=20are=20entitled=20to=20injuncti= ve=20relief=20requiring >>=20>=20Defendant=20to=20make=20lsac.org=20accessible=20to=20blind=20indi= viduals,=20and=20to=20make >>=20>=20the=20LSAT=20test=20practice=20materials=20offered=20to=20lsac.or= g=20patrons=20available >>=20to >>=20>=20blind=20people=20in=20an=20accessible=20format. >>=20> >>=20>=20SECOND=20CAUSE=20OF=20ACTION >>=20> >>=20>=20(Violation=20of=20Cal.Civ.=20Code=20=A7=A7=2051,=20et=20seq.=20-=20= =20The=20Unruh=20Act) >>=20> >>=20>=2026.=20=20=20=20=20=20=20The=20allegations=20contained=20in=20the=20= previous=20paragraphs=20are >>=20>=20incorporated=20by=20reference. >>=20> >>=20>=2027.=20=20=20=20=20=20=20California's=20Unruh=20Act=20requires=20t= hat=20individuals=20with >>=20>=20disabilities=20have=20"full=20and=20equal=20accommodations,=20adv= antages, >facilities, >>=20>=20privileges=20or=20services=20in=20all=20business=20establishments= =20of=20every=20kind >>=20>=20whatsoever."=20=20Cal.=20Civ.=20Code=20=A7=2051(b). >>=20> >>=20>=2028.=20=20=20=20=20=20=20LSAC=20and=20Lsac.org=20are=20business=20= establishments=20as=20that=20term=20is >>=20>=20used=20in=20Cal.=20Civ.=20Code=20=A7=2051(b)=20and=20lsac.org=20i= s=20an=20accommodation, >>=20>=20advantage,=20facility,=20privilege=20and=20service=20of=20LSAC. >>=20> >>=20>=2029.=20=20=20=20=20=20=20Defendant's=20conduct=20alleged=20herein=20= violates=20the=20Unruh=20Act, >>=20>=20including=20Cal.=20Civ.=20Code=20=A7=2051(b),=20by=20denying=20Pl= aintiffs=20the=20full=20and >>=20equal >>=20>=20accommodations,=20advantages,=20facilities,=20privileges=20or=20s= ervices=20of=20LSAC >>=20and >>=20>=20lsac.org. >>=20> >>=20>=2030.=20=20=20=20=20=20=20Defendant=20violated=20the=20Unruh=20Act=20= intentionally=20and/or=20with >>=20>=20deliberate=20indifference=20to=20the=20likelihood=20that=20it=20w= as=20violating=20the >>=20rights >>=20>=20of=20blind=20people=20and/or=20Defendant's=20violations=20were=20= so=20intuitive=20or >>=20obvious >>=20>=20that=20noncompliance=20could=20not=20be=20other=20than=20intentio= nal. >>=20> >>=20>=2031.=20=20=20=20=20=20=20As=20a=20result=20of=20Defendant's=20cond= uct,=20the=20NFB,=20the=20NFB=20of >>=20>=20California,=20and=20Ms.=20Goraya=20are=20entitled=20to=20injuncti= ve=20relief=20requiring >>=20>=20Defendant=20to=20make=20lsac.org=20accessible=20to=20blind=20indi= viduals,=20and=20to=20make >>=20>=20the=20LSAT=20test=20practice=20materials=20offered=20to=20lsac.or= g=20patrons=20available >>=20to >>=20>=20blind=20people=20in=20an=20accessible=20format. >>=20> >>=20> >>=20> >>=20>=20THIRD=20CAUSE=20OF=20ACTION >>=20> >>=20>=20(Declaratory=20Relief,=20Cal.=20Civ.=20Proc.=20=A7=201060=20) >>=20> >>=20>=2032.=20=20=20=20=20=20=20The=20allegations=20contained=20in=20the=20= previous=20paragraphs=20are >>=20>=20incorporated=20by=20reference. >>=20> >>=20>=2033.=20=20=20=20=20=20=20On=20information=20and=20belief,=20Defend= ants=20contend=20that=20they=20may >>=20>=20lawfully=20deny=20Plaintiffs=20access=20to=20their=20website=20an= d=20its=20contents. >>=20>=20=20Plaintiffs=20contend=20that=20lsac.org,=20which=20LSAC=20owns,= =20operates,=20and/or >>=20>=20controls,=20must=20provide=20blind=20patrons=20access=20to=20its=20= website=20and=20website >>=20>=20contents=20under=20California=20Civil=20Code=20=A7=A7=2054,=20et=20= seq.=20and=20California=20Civil >>=20>=20Code=20=A7=A7=2051,=20et=20seq.,=20which=20prohibit=20discriminat= ion=20against=20the=20blind. >>=20> >>=20>=2034.=20=20=20=20=20=20=20A=20judicial=20declaration=20is=20necessa= ry=20and=20appropriate=20at=20this >>=20time >>=20>=20in=20order=20that=20each=20of=20the=20parties=20may=20know=20thei= r=20respective=20rights=20and >>=20>=20duties=20and=20act=20accordingly. >>=20> >>=20>=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20WHEREFORE,=20Plaintiffs=20reques= t=20relief=20as=20set=20forth=20below. >>=20> >>=20>=20RELIEF=20REQUESTED >>=20> >>=20>=20WHEREFORE,=20Plaintiffs=20pray=20for=20judgment=20as=20follows: >>=20> >>=20>=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=201.=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20An=20= order=20enjoining=20LSAC=20from=20violating=20California >>=20>=20Civil=20Code=20=A7=A7=2051,=20et=20seq.=20and=20=A7=A7=2054,=20et= =20seq.; >>=20> >>=20>=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=202.=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20A=20= declaration=20that=20LSAC=20is=20owning,=20maintaining >>=20and/or >>=20>=20operating=20lsac.org=20in=20a=20manner=20which=20discriminates=20= against=20the=20blind=20and >>=20>=20which=20fails=20to=20provide=20access=20for=20persons=20with=20di= sabilities=20as=20required >>=20by >>=20>=20law; >>=20> >>=20>=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=203.=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20Pla= intiffs'=20reasonable=20attorneys'=20fees=20and=20costs >as >>=20>=20authorized=20by=20California=20California=20Civil=20Code=20=A7=A7= =2054,=20et=20seq., >California >>=20>=20Civil=20Code=20=A7=A7=2051,=20et=20seq.,=20and=20pursuant=20to=20= California=20Code=20of=20Civil >>=20>=20Procedure=20=A7=201021.5. >>=20> >>=20>=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=204.=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20Suc= h=20other=20and=20further=20relief=20as=20the=20Court=20deems >>=20just >>=20>=20and=20proper. >>=20> >>=20> >>=20> >>=20>=20DATED: >>=20>=20=20=20DISABILITY=20RIGHTS=20ADVOCATES >>=20> >>=20> >>=20> >>=20> >>=20=20By: >>=20>=20____________________________ >>=20> >>=20> >>=20>=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20Laurence=20W.=20Paradis >>=20> >>=20> >>=20> >>=20> >>=20> >>=20>=20Scott=20C.=20LaBarre,=20Esq. >>=20> >>=20>=20LaBarre=20Law=20Offices=20P.C. >>=20>=201660=20South=20Albion=20Street,=20Ste.=20918 >>=20>=20Denver,=20Colorado=2080222 >>=20>=20303=20504-5979=20(voice) >>=20>=20303=20757-3640=20(fax) >>=20>=20slabarre at labarrelaw.com=20(e-mail) >>=20>=20www.labarrelaw.com=20(website) >>=20> >>=20>=20CONFIDENTIALITY=20NOTICE:=20This=20message=20may=20contain=20conf= idential=20and >>=20>=20privileged=20information.=20If=20you=20are=20not=20the=20designat= ed=20recipient,=20you=20may >>=20not >>=20>=20read,=20copy,=20distribute=20or=20retain=20this=20message.=20If=20= you=20received=20this >>=20message >>=20>=20in=20error,=20please=20notify=20the=20sender=20at=20303)=20504-59= 79=20or >>=20>=20slabarre at labarrelaw.com,=20and=20destroy=20and=20delete=20it=20fr= om=20your=20system. >>=20This >>=20>=20message=20and=20any=20attachments=20are=20covered=20by=20the=20El= ectronic >>=20>=20Communications=20Privacy=20Act,=2018=20U.S.C.=20=A7=A7=202510-252= 1. >>=20>=20_______________________________________________ >>=20>=20blindlaw=20mailing=20list >>=20>=20blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>=20>=20http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>=20>=20To=20unsubscribe,=20change=20your=20list=20options=20or=20get=20y= our=20account=20info=20for >>=20>=20blindlaw: >>=20> >>=20> >> >> >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b75205%40gmail.= com >>=20> >>=20> >>=20_______________________________________________ >>=20blindlaw=20mailing=20list >>=20blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>=20http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>=20To=20unsubscribe,=20change=20your=20list=20options=20or=20get=20your=20= account=20info=20for >>=20blindlaw: >> >> >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/bspiry%40comcas= t.n >>=20et >> >> >>=20_______________________________________________ >>=20blindlaw=20mailing=20list >>=20blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>=20http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>=20To=20unsubscribe,=20change=20your=20list=20options=20or=20get=20your=20= account=20info=20for >>=20blindlaw: >> >> >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b75205%40gmail.= com >> >_______________________________________________ >blindlaw=20mailing=20list >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >To=20unsubscribe,=20change=20your=20list=20options=20or=20get=20your=20ac= count=20info=20for >blindlaw: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/bspiry%40comcas= t.n >et >_______________________________________________ >blindlaw=20mailing=20list >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >To=20unsubscribe,=20change=20your=20list=20options=20or=20get=20your=20ac= count=20info=20for=20 >blindlaw: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotma= il.com >_______________________________________________ >blindlaw=20mailing=20list >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >To=20unsubscribe,=20change=20your=20list=20options=20or=20get=20your=20ac= count=20info=20for=20blindlaw: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie%40mpmail.= net From bspiry at comcast.net Sat Mar 14 04:55:25 2009 From: bspiry at comcast.net (Bill Spiry) Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 21:55:25 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target In-Reply-To: <20090313183610.GA66589@yumi.bluecherry.net> References: <4E8742A18776454A880746AD18B966F5@colorado0f48f8> <5F60EFF2D5FD48A6A428F280C2AE8727@labarre> <547789.45557.qm@web36707.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <002e01c9a382$8265dec0$87319c40$@net> <20090313183610.GA66589@yumi.bluecherry.net> Message-ID: <001301c9a461$16dee860$449cb920$@net> Yep, figured that out just after sending. Thanks. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of T. Joseph Carter Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 11:36 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target I think you missed the subject change. This is about the Target case. Nothing's been settled regarding LSAC yet. Joseph On Thu, Mar 12, 2009 at 07:22:06PM -0700, Bill Spiry wrote: >What kind of proposed resolution is involved here? Will it result in LSAC >providing accessible materials in the immediate future?? _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/bspiry%40comcast.n et From cdborne at gmail.com Sat Mar 14 05:15:54 2009 From: cdborne at gmail.com (Craig Borne) Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 01:15:54 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. lsac complaint In-Reply-To: <49bb3c67.8905be0a.68cc.5e82SMTPIN_ADDED@mx.google.com> References: <49bb3c67.8905be0a.68cc.5e82SMTPIN_ADDED@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <01b801c9a463$f3c9b550$7100a8c0@computer> Angie, I wonder how many ABA accredited schools will follow the ABA's advice. I really believe this is a better way to go, though neither the ABA or law schools in general have solicited my advice. Shame on them. Craig Craig Borne Baltimore, Maryland "A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial appearance of being right, and raises at first a formidable outcry in defense of custom." --Thomas Paine, Common Sense -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Angie Matney Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 12:55 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. lsac complaint Now that the ABA advises schools to only consider the highest score, it would seem to be less likely that a low first score would be considered irreparable harm. Angie On Fri, 13 Mar 2009 02:31:57 -0400, Rod Alcidonis wrote: >Well, academically speaking, the law suit could have prayed for a Temporary >Restraining Order, or a preliminary Injunction against the LSAC for folks >like you. Basically enjoined the LSAC from administering the exam until they >make the changes. The only difficulty with that I think justifies the reason >they probably did not pray for such a relief is that such a measure would >cause too much harm to the public, I.E, the thousands of law students and >schools who rely on the exam to make admissions decisions. Such an order >while it would have forced the LSAC to make the changes much faster, it >would have unreasonably halted the system for some times. If it were a class >action with thousands of members, it probably would have been easier to >argue, I think. Whether not passing an exam for the first time is considered >irreparable harm is another question -- you can still make the argument >under these circumstances. >Rod Alcidonis >Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009. >Roger Williams University School of Law >10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 >Bristol, RI 02809 >Cell: 718-704-4651 >Home: 401-824-8685 >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Bill Spiry" >To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2009 9:52 PM >Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. lsac complaint >I understand. What might be done to getLSAC to authorize use of this >material as an accessible alternative to what they have to offer? I know NFB >is sueing them, but in the mean time that leaves folks like me who don't >have the Adobe skills you have, and facing the LSAT soon without accessible >matter. Any ideas or suggestions? >Thanks. >-----Original Message----- >From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >Behalf Of James Pepper >Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 10:43 AM >To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. lsac complaint >Well Bill the content is copyrighted by LSAC so I am not sure I can send >this to you. Perhaps some on this list can give that advice. I laid it out >properly. >James >On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 9:05 AM, Bill Spiry wrote: >> I would appreciate receiving this as well. Thanks. >> bspiry at comcast.net >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf Of James Pepper >> Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 1:46 AM >> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. lsac complaint >> >> Scott: I laid out the first section of the LSAT to be accessible and I >> can >> send you the files if you would like to see it. Also I made the form that >> they use accessible so the blind can fill out the test without assistance. >> This works with JAWS and Window Eyes and a combination of Adobe's Read out >> Loud and Microsoft Narrator. My process works and if you need references >> at >> NFB, AFB and the AAPD I can send them to you. >> >> It took a while to figure out how they made thier pdfs and I know where >> they >> are making their mistakes. I can correct this problem. These PDFs are >made >> to work natively with JAWS and Adobe Reader and the other screen readers >> without making any adjustments. They work with the default settings in >> Adobe Reader. >> >> Also the forms can be digitally signed and saved and all that fancy stuff >> that you expect with Adobe Acrobat Professional can be done with >> Adobe Reader, versions 8 or 9 which is the free download from Adobe.com. >> So >> we can make the LSAT accessible to anyone with a PC running Windows XP Or >> VIsta without any change of settings. This means the PC can be there for >> the sighted and the blind, with equal access for all. >> >> Also since I labeled everything, it will be a lot quicker for you to fill >> out this test! >> >> Sincerely, >> >> James G. Pepper >> >> >> >> On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 4:32 PM, Scott C. LaBarre >> wrote: >> >> > Below I am sharing the complaint that we filed today in California >Court. >> > ************** >> > LaurEnce W. paradis (California Bar No. 122336) >> > >> > Anna levine (California Bar No. 227881) >> > >> > Disability Rights Advocates >> > >> > 2001 Center Street, Third Floor >> > >> > Berkeley, California 94704 >> > >> > Telephone: (510) 665-8644 >> > >> > Facsimile: (510) 665-8511 >> > >> > TTY: (510) 665-8716 >> > >> > >> > >> > SCOTT LABARRE (to seek pro hac vice admission) >> > >> > LABARRE LAW OFFICES, P.C. >> > >> > 1660 S. Albion Street, Ste 918 >> > >> > Denver, Colo 80222 >> > >> > Telephone: (303) 504-5979 >> > >> > Fax: (303) 757-3640 >> > >> > >> > >> > DANIEL F. GOLDSTEIN (to seek pro hac vice admission) >> > >> > MEHGAN Sidhu (to seek pro hac vice admission) >> > >> > Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP >> > >> > 120 E. Baltimore St., Suite 1700 >> > >> > Baltimore, MD 21202 >> > >> > Telephone: (410) 962-1030 >> > >> > Fax: (410) 385-0869 >> > >> > >> > >> > SUPERIOR COURT OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA >> > COUNTY OF ALAMEDA >> > >> > >> > >> > National Federation of the Blind, the National Federation of the >> Blind >> > of CALIFORNIA, and DEEPA GORAYA, >> > >> > >> > >> > Plaintiffs, >> > >> > v. >> > >> > LAW SCHOOL ADMISSION COUNCIL, INC., >> > >> > Defendant. >> > >> > >> > >> > Case No.: >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > COMPLAINT FOR INJUNCTIVE AND DECLARATORY RELIEF FOR VIOLATIONS OF >> THE >> > CALIFORNIA DISABLED PERSONS ACT AND UNRUH CIVIL RIGHTS ACT >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > INTRODUCTION >> > >> > Plaintiffs complain of Defendant and allege herein as follows: >> > >> > 1. This action, brought by the National Federation of the Blind, >> > the National Federation of the Blind of California, and Deepa Goraya, >> seeks >> > to put an end to civil rights violations committed by defendant Law >> School >> > Admissions Council (hereafter "LSAC") against blind persons seeking to >> take >> > the LSAT exam and apply to law schools. Plaintiff Deepa Goraya, a blind >> law >> > school applicant in California, has been and is being denied equal >access >> to >> > the accommodations, advantages, and facilities LSAC provides its >> > non-disabled customers through http://www.lsac.org (hereafter "lsac.org" >> > and "the website"). Plaintiffs National Federation of the Blind and the >> > National Federation of the Blind of California have members who are >> > similarly denied full and equal access to such accommodations, >advantages >> > and facilities. Lsac.org is currently the only place online where >> > prospective law students can register for the Law School Admissions Test >> > ("LSAT"), apply to law schools, and obtain official LSAT test >preparation >> > materials and information. Lsac.org contains multiple access barriers >> that >> > make it difficult if not impossible for blind law school applicants and >> LSAT >> > test takers to use the website and to obtain practice materials without >> > sighted assistance. LSAC thus excludes the blind, including Ms. Goraya, >> > from full and equal access to the accommodations, advantages, >facilities, >> > and privileges of lsac.org. >> > >> > JURISDICTION >> > >> > 2. This is a civil action under California's Disabled Persons >Act >> > (Cal. Civ. Code '' 54, et seq.) and the Unruh Civil Rights Act (Cal. >Civ. >> > Code '' 51, et seq.) and for declaratory relief. This Court has >> > jurisdiction over the claims alleged herein pursuant to California Civil >> > Code '' 54, et seq. and California Civil Code '' 51, et seq. and >> California >> > Code of Civil Procedure section 1060. >> > >> > 3. This Court has jurisdiction over LSAC because LSAC is a >> > corporation authorized to do business in California and LSAC conducts >> > substantial business in California. LSAC owns, maintains and operates >its >> > website, lsac.org, throughout California and in Alameda County. >> > >> > >> > >> > VENUE >> > >> > 4. Venue is proper in Alameda County because liability arises in >> > part in Alameda County, where the National Federation of the Blind of >> > California has its headquarters. LSAC has been and is committing the >> acts >> > alleged herein in Alameda County, has been and is violating the rights >of >> > patrons in Alameda County, and has been and is causing injury to patrons >> in >> > Alameda County. >> > >> > 5. Plaintiff Goraya is a California citizen and has experienced >> > injury in California as a result of LSAC's inaccessible website and >> practice >> > materials. >> > >> > PARTIES >> > >> > 6. Plaintiff the National Federation of the Blind (hereafter >> "NFB") >> > is a national advocacy organization. The NFB, the oldest and largest >> > national organization of blind persons, is a non-profit corporation duly >> > organized under the laws of the District of Columbia with its principal >> > place of business in Baltimore, Maryland. It has affiliates in all 50 >> > states (including California) as well as Washington, D.C. and Puerto >> Rico. >> > The vast majority of the approximately 50,000 members are blind >persons. >> > The NFB is widely recognized by the public, Congress, executive >agencies >> of >> > government and the courts as a collective and representative voice on >> behalf >> > of blind Americans and their families. The purpose of the NFB is to >> promote >> > the general welfare of the blind by (1) assisting the blind in their >> efforts >> > to integrate themselves into society on terms of equality and (2) >> removing >> > barriers and changing social attitudes, stereotypes and mistaken beliefs >> > that sighted and blind persons hold concerning the limitations created >by >> > blindness resulting in the denial of opportunity to blind persons in >> > virtually every sphere of life. The NFB and many of its members have >> long >> > been actively involved in promoting adaptive technology for the blind, >so >> > that blind persons can live and work independently in today's >> > technology-dependent world. NFB members reside throughout the United >> > States, including the state of California, and many of its members would >> use >> > the services of lsac.org if this website is made independently usable by >> > the blind. >> > >> > 7. Plaintiff the National Federation of the Blind of California >> > (hereafter "NFB of California") is a state affiliate of the National >> > Federation of the Blind. NFB of California is a California corporation >> and >> > carries out NFB's objectives at the state level. It has local chapters >> > throughout California, including Alameda County, and has its >headquarters >> in >> > Fremont, California, in Alameda County. >> > >> > 8. Plaintiff Goraya is a member of the NFB and the NFB of >> > California. She is blind and has been denied full and equal access to >> the >> > accommodations, advantages, facilities and privileges of lsac.org. >> > >> > 9. Defendant LSAC, is a non-profit corporation >> > established to coordinate, facilitate, and enhance the law school >> admissions >> > process. LSAC owns, operates and/or maintains the website lsac.com, a >> > public accommodation. Plaintiffs seek access to the services provided >by >> > LSAC in California through lsac.org. >> > >> > FACTS >> > >> > 10. Lsac.org is owned, controlled and/or operated by LSAC. >> Lsac.org >> > is a public accommodation that offers its visitors comprehensive >services >> > for applying to law school. The website functions as the official >> > destination for guiding prospective law school applicants through the >> > fundamental steps of applying to law school. Among its services, >> lsac.orgoffers information about the LSAT and law school application >> process, and >> > extensive LSAT preparation materials and resources. Lsac.org also >serves >> as >> > the exclusive online means for registering for the LSAT and applying to >> > ABA-accredited law schools. >> > >> > 11. According to the website, lsac.org's online services enable >> > prospective law students to do the following, among other things: >> > >> > a.. Register for the LSAT >> > b.. Register for the LSDAS (Law School Data Assembly Service) >> > c.. Purchase publications and test preparation materials >> > d.. Have access to electronic applications for all ABA-approved law >> > schools >> > e.. Apply online to law schools >> > f.. Register for law school forums >> > g.. Have 24-hour file access >> > 12. In addition to facilitating the LSAT and law school application >> > processes, a significant portion of the lsac.org website is devoted to >> > preparing students to take the LSAT. Among the services offered in that >> > regard are online information guides that explain how to prepare for the >> > LSAT and free, downloadable sample practice tests and test questions. >> > Lsac.org also offers for a fee an online LSAT practice test tool and >the >> > opportunity to purchase more than 40 official LSAT practice tests. >> > >> > 13. While sighted visitors to lsac.org can easily obtain the benefits >> and >> > advantages offered by the website, blind individuals, including Ms. >> Goraya, >> > have been and are being denied access to lsac.org due to LSAC's failure >> > and refusal to remove access barriers to lsac.org. Specifically, blind >> > visitors to the website, including Ms. Goraya, cannot independently >apply >> to >> > law school, register for the LSAT, or obtain in an accessible format the >> > LSAT preparation materials and practice tests available through lsac.org >> . >> > >> > 14. The blind access websites by using keyboards in conjunction >> with >> > screen-reading software. This software vocalizes or conveys to a >> refreshable >> > Braille display information that appears visually on a computer screen. >> > Unless websites are designed to allow for use in this manner, blind >> persons >> > are unable to fully access the internet websites and the information, >> > products and services contained therein. >> > >> > 15. There are well-established guidelines for making websites >> > accessible to the blind. These guidelines have been in place for at >> least >> > several years and have been followed successfully by other public >> > accommodations in making their online services accessible. The Web >> > Accessibility Initiative (WAI), a project of the World Wide Web >> Consortium, >> > which is the leading standards organization for the Web, has developed >> > guidelines for making information that is reached via the internet >> > accessible. The federal government has also promulgated accessibility >> > standards under Section 508 of the Rehabilitation Act. These guidelines >> > have long been readily available via the internet so that any public >> > accommodation could easily secure the necessary information. >> > >> > 16. Lsac.org contains a variety of access barriers that prevent >> free >> > and full use by blind persons using keyboards and screen reading >> software. >> > These barriers include but are not limited to: lack of or improperly >> > labeled form controls; faulty keyboard navigation; and use of tables and >> > charts that are not formatted for accessibility. Form controls allow >> users >> > to input data on online forms and applications. These controls must be >> > coded and labeled to allow screen-access software to detect and vocalize >> the >> > requested information. Keyboard navigation refers to the ability to >> > successfully navigate a website using keyboard commands, as opposed to >> > requiring a mouse as the exclusive means for navigation of the site. >> > Further, charts and tables must be formatted to work with screen-access >> > software. Much of the lsac.org website, and in particular the online >> law >> > school application and LSAT registration sections of the website, lack >> these >> > fundamental accessibility components. As a result, blind visitors to >the >> > website cannot independently use those and other critical features. >> > >> > 17. Lsac.org's test preparation materials that are available on >the >> > website in Adobe Portable Document (PDF) format, are not properly >> "tagged." >> > This means that the headings, paragraphs, tables, image descriptions >and >> > form controls are not easily discernable to screen-reading software. As >> a >> > result, these materials are cumbersome, if not impossible, for a blind >> > visitor to navigate. >> > >> > 18. Finally, lsac.org fails to offer LSAT practice tests, >> available >> > as part of its test preparation services, in formats accessible to the >> > blind. While the sighted can easily use the website to obtain more than >> 40 >> > formerly administered LSAT practice tests, the website fails to offer >the >> > opportunity to purchase these practice materials in formats accessible >to >> > the blind, such as Braille or an accessible electronic format. >> > >> > 19. As a result of lsac.org's accessibility barriers, blind law >> > school applicants, including Ms. Goraya, must go over extraordinary >> hurdles >> > to register and prepare for the LSAT and to apply to law school compared >> to >> > their sighted counterparts. After unsuccessfully attempting to use >> > lsac.org independently to register for the LSAT and fill out her law >> > school applications, for example, Plaintiff Goraya was forced to select >> and >> > rely upon a reader for over 50 hours simply to read aloud the content of >> the >> > website and complete her law school applications. Moreover, none of the >> > LSAT practice materials, which include previously administered versions >> of >> > the test, were available to her in accessible electronic formats. >> Lsac.org >> > thus contains numerous access barriers which deny full and equal access >> to >> > Plaintiff, who would otherwise use the accommodations, advantages, and >> > facilities of lsac.org. >> > >> > 20. On December 10, 2008, Plaintiff National Federation of the >> Blind >> > notified LSAC of the unlawful accessibility barriers on its website. >> LSAC >> > responded by setting up and then canceling a meeting with the NFB. On >> > January 22, 2009, the NFB notified LSAC that it intended to pursue legal >> > action against LSAC for the unlawful barriers on its website. >> > >> > FIRST CAUSE OF ACTION >> > >> > (Violation of Cal. Civ. Code '' 54, et seq. - the Disabled Persons Act) >> > >> > 21. The allegations contained in the previous paragraphs are >> > incorporated by reference. >> > >> > 22. The Disabled Persons Act ("DPA") requires that individuals >with >> > disabilities have "full and equal access, as other members of the >general >> > public, to accommodations, advantages, facilities, . . . and other >places >> to >> > which the general public is invited, subject only to the conditions and >> > limitations established by law, or state or federal regulation, and >> > applicable alike to all persons." Cal. Civ. Code 54.1(a)(1). >> > >> > 23. Lsac.org, which is owned, operated and/or maintained by LSAC, >> is >> > an >> > >> > accommodation, advantage, facility and/or place to which the general >> public >> > is invited, as those terms are used in Cal. Civ. Code ' 54.1(a)(1). >> > >> > 24. Defendant's conduct alleged herein violates the DPA, including >> > Cal. Civ. Code ' 54.1(a)(1), by denying the Plaintiffs full and equal >> access >> > to the accommodations, advantages and facilities of lsac.org. >> > >> > 25. As a result of Defendant's conduct, the NFB, the NFB of >> > California, and Ms. Goraya are entitled to injunctive relief requiring >> > Defendant to make lsac.org accessible to blind individuals, and to make >> > the LSAT test practice materials offered to lsac.org patrons available >> to >> > blind people in an accessible format. >> > >> > SECOND CAUSE OF ACTION >> > >> > (Violation of Cal.Civ. Code '' 51, et seq. - The Unruh Act) >> > >> > 26. The allegations contained in the previous paragraphs are >> > incorporated by reference. >> > >> > 27. California's Unruh Act requires that individuals with >> > disabilities have "full and equal accommodations, advantages, >facilities, >> > privileges or services in all business establishments of every kind >> > whatsoever." Cal. Civ. Code ' 51(b). >> > >> > 28. LSAC and Lsac.org are business establishments as that term is >> > used in Cal. Civ. Code ' 51(b) and lsac.org is an accommodation, >> > advantage, facility, privilege and service of LSAC. >> > >> > 29. Defendant's conduct alleged herein violates the Unruh Act, >> > including Cal. Civ. Code ' 51(b), by denying Plaintiffs the full and >> equal >> > accommodations, advantages, facilities, privileges or services of LSAC >> and >> > lsac.org. >> > >> > 30. Defendant violated the Unruh Act intentionally and/or with >> > deliberate indifference to the likelihood that it was violating the >> rights >> > of blind people and/or Defendant's violations were so intuitive or >> obvious >> > that noncompliance could not be other than intentional. >> > >> > 31. As a result of Defendant's conduct, the NFB, the NFB of >> > California, and Ms. Goraya are entitled to injunctive relief requiring >> > Defendant to make lsac.org accessible to blind individuals, and to make >> > the LSAT test practice materials offered to lsac.org patrons available >> to >> > blind people in an accessible format. >> > >> > >> > >> > THIRD CAUSE OF ACTION >> > >> > (Declaratory Relief, Cal. Civ. Proc. ' 1060 ) >> > >> > 32. The allegations contained in the previous paragraphs are >> > incorporated by reference. >> > >> > 33. On information and belief, Defendants contend that they may >> > lawfully deny Plaintiffs access to their website and its contents. >> > Plaintiffs contend that lsac.org, which LSAC owns, operates, and/or >> > controls, must provide blind patrons access to its website and website >> > contents under California Civil Code '' 54, et seq. and California Civil >> > Code '' 51, et seq., which prohibit discrimination against the blind. >> > >> > 34. A judicial declaration is necessary and appropriate at this >> time >> > in order that each of the parties may know their respective rights and >> > duties and act accordingly. >> > >> > WHEREFORE, Plaintiffs request relief as set forth below. >> > >> > RELIEF REQUESTED >> > >> > WHEREFORE, Plaintiffs pray for judgment as follows: >> > >> > 1. An order enjoining LSAC from violating California >> > Civil Code '' 51, et seq. and '' 54, et seq.; >> > >> > 2. A declaration that LSAC is owning, maintaining >> and/or >> > operating lsac.org in a manner which discriminates against the blind and >> > which fails to provide access for persons with disabilities as required >> by >> > law; >> > >> > 3. Plaintiffs' reasonable attorneys' fees and costs >as >> > authorized by California California Civil Code '' 54, et seq., >California >> > Civil Code '' 51, et seq., and pursuant to California Code of Civil >> > Procedure ' 1021.5. >> > >> > 4. Such other and further relief as the Court deems >> just >> > and proper. >> > >> > >> > >> > DATED: >> > DISABILITY RIGHTS ADVOCATES >> > >> > >> > >> > >> By: >> > ____________________________ >> > >> > >> > Laurence W. Paradis >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. >> > >> > LaBarre Law Offices P.C. >> > 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 >> > Denver, Colorado 80222 >> > 303 504-5979 (voice) >> > 303 757-3640 (fax) >> > slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) >> > www.labarrelaw.com (website) >> > >> > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and >> > privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may >> not >> > read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this >> message >> > in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or >> > slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. >> This >> > message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic >> > Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. '' 2510-2521. >> > _______________________________________________ >> > blindlaw mailing list >> > blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> > blindlaw: >> > >> > >> >> >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b75205%40gmail.co m >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> >> >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/bspiry%40comcast. n >> et >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> >> >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b75205%40gmail.co m >> >_______________________________________________ >blindlaw mailing list >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >blindlaw: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/bspiry%40comcast. n >et >_______________________________________________ >blindlaw mailing list >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >blindlaw: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail .com >_______________________________________________ >blindlaw mailing list >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie%40mpmail.ne t From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Sat Mar 14 05:16:34 2009 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 22:16:34 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] comments needed regarding policy for audiblepedestriansignals In-Reply-To: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6B26D659@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local> References: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6B26D659@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local> Message-ID: <3EF776BCF9174299958856D958862DCE@spike> thanks. Some of the audible signals that have been installed thus far installed at appropriate intersections. Others have been installed ast places where there is a low volume of traffic and where there is a low demand. Apparently they are wanting to have a more a systematic approach in place to determine where signals will be installed in the future. We have many intersections where there are medians crossing several wide streets where they have not been installed. On these I personally prefer to at times to divide the crossing in to two sections to pay more attention to traffic flow. There is another location where they should probably build a pedestrian crossing either above or below ground. There is a precedent for a couple of below ground crossings one in downtown Fresno that was built in the 60's and one that was just opened a couple of years ago to go under railroad tracks that cut through the campus of the local community college. There have been some above ground pedestrian crossings of major roads and freeways to benefit children going to school. As a long-time cane user trained long before audible signals were fashionable or feasible I still believe that traffic flow is the best audible signal. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "McCarthy, Jim" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 6:58 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] comments needed regarding policy for audiblepedestriansignals > Chuck, > I am happy to talk through this with you off line if you would prefer. > Nevertheless, I will offer my immediate thoughts after reading. It is a > little unclear what the goal is. This process is to prioritize > intersections giving those most in need APS first. I am convinced that > there are several signalized (light controlled) intersections that do not > need these devices. However, this might be a way to provide APS at all > signalized intersections in time and that may be what the Access-Board > will come to require. > > I think it is good to have as a part of the evaluation team a blind person > and a deaf blind person when the requester is deaf blind or serves that > community. I have always found it problematic though when cities say that > the centers blind people use should have some super priority. I lived in > Portland Oregon and the west part of the city was hilly with curvy > streets. Many were not straight and some had high speed traffic. > However, the audible traffic signals were almost never in those > neighborhoods (the better ones I might add) because it was assumed that > blind people did not frequent them. To me that is a ghettoizing > assumption that results from this process. I do think that public transit > centers and such places should have greater attention paid though and this > document would do that. > > Finally, in the main, I think that the traffic and street configuration > factors are as they should be. I think that the locations with the > greatest need based on these factors should be the first to receive > signals. The Fresno process is similar to others I have seen, though I > would prefer that the evaluation group use the factors and evaluate all > signalized intersections using the factors more than whether and how > many requests were made. > Jim McCarthy > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net > Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2009 8:21 AM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: [blindlaw] comments needed regarding policy for audible > pedestriansignals > > The City of Fresno is proposing the policy shown below to evaluate the > installation of audible traffic signals. As this is outside my expertise I > would appreciate any comments regarding this document. Please feel free to > contact me off list if needed. > Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal > 1237 P Street > Fresno ca 93721 > 559-266-9237 > > > APS Policy-03-09-LP .pdf > DRAFT ACCESSIBLE PEDESTRIAN SIGNALS (APS) INTERSECTION EVALUATION > PROCEDURE BACKGROUND Accessible Pedestrian Signals (APS), also known as > audible pedestrian signals, are devices that communicate information about > pedestrian timing in nonvisual format such as audible tones, verbal > messages, and/or vibrating surfaces. APS are used in conjunction with > standard pedestrian activated traffic signals to provide the following > information to pedestrians: > list of 4 items > б· > Existence of and location of the pedestrian pushbutton б· Beginning of the > pedestrian WALK interval б· Direction of the crosswalk and location of the > destination curb б· Clearance signal interval list end They are used to > assist blind and visually impaired persons and other persons with > disabilities of all ages to cross at designated streets and intersections. > PURPOSE > The purpose of this evaluation policy is to set forth factors to be used > by the City of Fresno's Public Works Department, in cooperation with the > City of Fresno's Disability Advisory Commission, in developing a priority > listing of signalized intersection candidates to be retrofitted with > audible devices that will provide guidance for the blind community and > visually impaired persons and other persons with disabilities of all ages > to cross certain streets. > POLICY > It is the policy of the City Council that the retrofitting of existing > traffic signals with APS shall be based on factors established herein and > that such measurements and computations as may be required in determining > priority rating of candidate locations shall be the responsibility of the > Public Works Department. > It should be noted that in special situations, an APS should not be > installed because of the adverse affect it could have on pedestrian safety > as a result of the overall traffic circulation pattern of an area, or > unusual geometric conditions where an APS would not provide the safety > benefits necessary for the blind or visually impaired individuals to cross > a street. It should also be noted that some traffic signals cannot be > retrofitted with APS without major costly modifications. Retrofitting of > traffic signals with APS shall be subject to approval by the City > Engineer. > Important: APS are utilized to help blind and visually impaired travelers > recognize when a WALK signal is operating in a given direction. An APS may > enhance the safety of blind travelers in two ways: > list of 1 items > 1. > Lessens the chance of a blind or visually impaired pedestrian misjudging > when the walk phase is operating, thereby lessening the chance of > accidentally crossing against a signal. > list end > list of 1 items > 2. > Helps blind and visually impaired pedestrians recognize immediately when > the walk phase begins, permitting them to cross the street in a timely > fashion, thereby lessening the chance of being in the intersection when > the signal changes. > list end > However, it is important to recognize that the APS does not and cannot > assure the blind and visually impaired pedestrians that there will be no > potential traffic conflicts while crossing when the APS is operating. In > particular, the blind and visually impaired pedestrians should be aware of > at least four possible conflicts. > list of 4 items > 1. > Vehicles may be still clearing the intersection when the APS comes on. > 2. > Vehicles may fail to stop for the red light. This is particularly common > for motorists attempting to enter on a yellow light. > 3. > Motorists may stop and make a right turn on red while watching traffic on > their left but may fail to notice pedestrians on their right. > 4. > Vehicles may have right and left turns on the same phase as the > pedestrian. > list end > Because of these potential conflicts, it is important that the blind or > visually impaired traveler exercise due caution for his or her well-being > when crossing a street, whether or not it is equipped with APS. It is > especially important that blind and visually impaired travelers be > properly trained by certified orientation and mobility specialists in safe > travel techniques on the public right-of-way. > EVALUATION PROCEDURE (See attached "Evaluation Form.") The following basic > considerations and evaluation factors shall be utilized to determine > whether a location is eligible to be a candidate for APS and to determine > its relative position on the priority list. Evaluation and scoring of > factors will be conducted by an evaluation team consisting of a certified > orientation-mobility specialist, a visually impaired/blind traveler and a > traffic engineer. Candidate locations shall be requested by the City of > Fresno Disability Advisory Commission, its working groups, and constituent > requests to the ADA Coordinator's office. > Candidate locations will be evaluated by means of the sample evaluation > sheet attached. > I. BASIC CONSIDERATIONS: > APS normally will be considered for installation only if the following > conditions are met: > list of 5 items > A. > Intersections must be signalized. > B. > Signals must be susceptible to retrofitting. > C. > Signals should be equipped with pedestrian signal actuations. (See also > section on "Signals without Pedestrian Actuations.") D. > Location must be suitable to installation of audible signals, in terms of > surrounding land use, noise level and neighborhood acceptance. > E. > There must be a demonstrated need for the audible signals in the form of a > request from an individual or group that would use the audible signal. > list end > II EVALUATION FACTORS > The following factors shall be used to establish a priority listing for > potential audible traffic signal candidates. Candidates will be arranged > in priority order of those with the highest total points (100 points > maximum) on top and then in descending order. The scoring of factors will > be conducted by an evaluation team consistent of a mobility specialist, a > visually impaired/blind traveler and a traffic engineer. If the request > for an APS was made by a deaf blind individual, or by representative of an > organization serving deaf blind pedestrians in order to improve access in > their geographic area, the evaluation team may also include a deaf blind > rater. The decision whether to include a deaf blind rater will be made by > the City Engineer. > A) Intersection Safety > 1. Accident Records: Past pedestrian accident experience at the > intersection will be used as an indication of potential safety > performance. Points will be based on pedestrian accidents reported by the > City of Fresno's Police Department. > > table with 3 columns and 6 rows > Pedestrian Accidents > Period > Points > 1 > 4 years > 1 > 2 > 4 years > 2 > 3 > 4 years > 3 > 4 > 4 years > 4 > 5 or more > 4 years > 5 > table end > > 2. Intersection Configuration: The number of approaches to an intersection > and their geometric configuration (offset, skewed, etc.) affect the > ability of the blind and visually impaired persons crossing the roadway. > In particular, traffic at 3-leg intersections tends not to provide > adequate audible clues for the blind to permit them to effectively judge > the signal phase. > > table with 2 columns and 6 rows > Configuration > Points > 4-leg right angle intersection > 1 > 3-leg T-intersection > 2 > 3 or 4-leg skewed intersection > 3 > 4-leg offset intersection > 4 > Other complex or multiple leg intersections > 5 > table end > > Note: Intersections with 5 or more legs will require special design. > 3. Intersection Signalization: Pre-timed intersections are the easiest for > blind pedestrian because the phase interval is constant and can be > observed over time. Vehicle actuated intersections are more difficult, > because the pedestrian interval may be of different lengths or skipped all > together. Split-phasing can provide confusing auditory information, as a > traveler may interpret left-turning vehicles as a parallel traffic surge. > > table with 2 columns and 5 rows > Signalization > Points > Pre-timed > 0 > Vehicle Actuated > 2 > Split Phasing > 4 > Exclusive Ped Phase (for future reference) > 5 > table end > > 4. > Width of Crossing: > Wider streets are more difficult for blind travelers to cross. If > each leg of the intersection has a different width, points will be > assigned on the > basis of the widest street on which pedestrians are permitted to cross. > Crossing > width will be measured at the point pedestrians normally cross the street. > Islands > and medians will be included in the total crossing distance even if they > are > equipped with separate pedestrian signal actuators. These points will be > apportioned based upon the greatest width of the crossing at the subject > intersection. > > table with 2 columns and 7 rows > Width of Crossing > Points > 40 feet or less > 0 > 40 to 59 feet > 1 > 60 to 79 feet > 2 > 80 to 99 feet > 3 > 100 -119 > 4 > 120 feet or more > 5 > table end > > 5. Vehicle Speed: The speed of approaching traffic reflects the ability of > approaching traffic to stop for a pedestrian clearing the intersection as > the lights > change. Audible signals help blind pedestrians get a timely start at the > beginning > of the walk phase, thereby permitting clearing the intersection in a > timely manner. > Points are assigned on the basis of the 85 percentile speed on the fastest > approach leg. More points are assigned on the basis of higher speeds. > > table with 2 columns and 6 rows > Speed Range > Points > 0 - 25 mph > 1 > 26 - 30 mph > 2 > 31 - 35 mph > 3 > 36 - 40 mph > 4 > 41 mph or over > 5 > table end > > B. Crosswalk Characteristics > These points will be apportioned based upon the highest-scoring > characteristics of any of the > crosswalks at the intersection. For example, if any of the crosswalks at > an intersection have a > median island protruding into an intersection, then the intersection will > receive the two points > allotted for that characteristic. > list of 1 items > (a) > Location of Pedestrian Push Button. Pedestrian push buttons that are too > far from > the intersection can present difficulties for blind pedestrians. They may > make it > harder for an individual to use the button as a cue for alignment and/or > to push the > button and cross in the same cycle. > list end > > table with 2 columns and 4 rows > Location of Pedestrian Actuations > Points > One or more ped pushbuttons located > 10 ft from curb > 1 > One or more ped pushbuttons located > 5 ft from crosswalk extended > 2 > One or more ped pushbuttons out of alignment with direction of travel > 2 > table end > > list of 1 items > (b) > Median Islands Blind pedestrians have difficulties interpreting traffic > clues at > medians and islands. Efforts should be made to permit the blind to cross > in one > continuous movement. In such cases, signal timing should be extended to > accommodate the full crossing. Divided streets with or without a > pedestrian signal > actuator in the median will be handled as a single crossing, with the > width measured > across the entire street. > list end > > table with 2 columns and 2 rows > Median Island > Points > Protruding into crosswalk, or cut through. > 2 > table end > > list of 1 items > (c) > Alignment of Crosswalk. A skewed crosswalk is one in which the direction > of travel > on the crosswalk differs from that on the approaching sidewalk. In this > context, > skew is not defined as the angle at which streets intersect. If a blind > pedestrian > walking a straight line from the approaching sidewalk is headed toward > parallel > traffic lanes, the crosswalk is skewed. If the pedestrian would end up > deviating from > the crosswalk, but would still arrive at the opposite corner, the > crosswalk is not > defined as skewed for this purpose. > list end > Skewed Crosswalk > 4 > (d) Distance to Alternative APS > > table with 2 columns and 6 rows > Distance to Alternative APS Crosswalk > Points > 1 block > 0 > 2 blocks > 0 > 3 blocks > 2 > 4 blocks > 2 > 5 or more blocks > 3 > table end > > (e) Requests for APS > New requests for APS will be recorded by the ADA Coordinator. Requestors > will be > asked to specify the reason for the request (e.g. proximity on a route to > school or work), > the difficulty they encounter at the intersection, and the time of day > that presents the > greatest difficulty. This information may be used by the Orientation and > Mobility > Evaluation team in assessing the intersection. > > table with 2 columns and 4 rows > APS Requests > Points > 1 request > 1 > 2 recent documented requests > 2 > 3 or more recent, documented requests > 3-4 > table end > > B) Pedestrian Usage > Blind pedestrians share many characteristics with the sighted population > in that they go to public > places, business, social, educational and medical facilities. At the same > time they have > special needs. For example, they may have a greater reliance on public > transportation than > sighted persons. Audible signals should be placed with the view of > improving mobility of blind > persons and making more facilities accessible to them. Proximity of > signals to these facilities > may assure a greater degree of utilization. > list of 1 items > 1. > Proximity to facilities for people who are blind or visually impaired: > This includes the > Department of Rehabilitation, Social Security offices, Valley Center for > the Blind and > other similar facilities. Special consideration may be given to senior > citizens complexes > or public housing facilities that have one or more blind or visually > impaired persons in > residence. Points are assigned on the basis of blocks or distance (1 block > equals 400 > feet) from proposed APS site to subject facility. The closer the two are, > the more points > are assigned. > list end > > table with 2 columns and 6 rows > Proximity > Points > 4 to 6 blocks > 2 > 3 blocks > 4 > 2 blocks > 6 > 1 block > 8 > At subject facility > 10 > table end > > 2. Proximity to key facilities utilized by all pedestrians (blind and > sighted.): This includes > medical, educational, social, recreational, shopping, commercial, > business, public and > governmental facilities. Points are assigned on the basis of blocks or > distance (1 block > equals 400 feet) from proposed APS site to subject facility. In case of > multiple facilities, > points will be assigned on the basis of the closest facility. > > table with 2 columns and 6 rows > Proximity > Points > 4 to 6 blocks > 1 > 3 blocks > 2 > 2 blocks > 3 > 1 block > 4 > At subject facility > 5 > table end > > 3. Access to public transit: Because blind and visually impaired persons > rely heavily upon > public transportation (bus or trolley), special consideration will be > given to those > proposed APS sites that have heavy general use, serves any of the > facilities indicated > above (Ref. B-1 and B-2), or serves as a transfer point and serves 2 or > more transit > routes within a one-block walking distance. > list of 1 items > a) > Number of transit stops and/or transit routes within one block of proposed > audible > signal site. > list end > > table with 2 columns and 6 rows > Number of Routes and Stops > Points > 1 - 2 routes and 1 stop > 1 > 3 or more routes and 1 stop > 2 > 1 - 2 routes and 2 stops > 3 > 3 or more routes and 2 stops > 4 > 2 or more routes and more than 2 stops > 5 > table end > > b) Passenger usage is based upon the total passengers boarding and > debarking each > day at a transit stop or transfer point within a one-block walking > distance. > > table with 2 columns and 7 rows > Passengers Boarding and Debarking Each Day > Points > 0 - 49 > 0 > 50-149 > 1 > 150-249 > 2 > 250-499 > 3 > 500-999 > 4 > 1,000 and over > 5 > table end > > C) Traffic Conditions > Vehicle volumes, traffic distribution, traffic congestion and flow > characteristics may assist or > impede the blind traveler in crossing an intersection. Blind pedestrians > can function best when > crossing signalized intersections that are at right angles with a moderate > but steady flow of > traffic through the intersection on each leg and with a minimum of turning > movements (right or > left turns). Traffic that stops on each leg during each signal cycle is > particularly helpful. Traffic > that is either light, or very heavy, or erratic in its flow makes it > difficult for the blind traveler to > pick up audible clues as to whether the light is red or green. In such > cases, audible signals will > assist in determining when it is possible to cross the street. Points may > be assigned by the > evaluation team based upon their perception of the relative importance of > each of these factors > (which are not necessarily dependent upon the total average daily > traffic). Candidate locations > may score up to a maximum of 5 points for each of the following factors > depending upon overall > traffic distribution. > > table with 3 columns and 6 rows > Heavy Traffic Flow > Vehicles per hour > Points > Approach traffic on all legs is in excess of 2,000 vehicles per hour > during any peak hour. > 2,000 - 2,999 > 1 > Approach traffic on all legs is in excess of 2,000 vehicles per hour > during any peak hour. > 3,000 - 3,999 > 2 > Approach traffic on all legs is in excess of 2,000 vehicles per hour > during any peak hour. > 4,000 - 4,999 > 3 > Approach traffic on all legs is in excess of 2,000 vehicles per hour > during any peak hour. > 5,000 - 5,999 > 4 > Approach traffic on all legs is in excess of 2,000 vehicles per hour > during any peak hour. > 6,000 and over > 5 > table end > > table with 3 columns and 7 rows > Off Peak Traffic Presence Direction 1 > Points > At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, > expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. > Constant (б≥ 90%) > 0 > At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, > expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. > Heavy (70-80%) > 1 > At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, > expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. > Moderate (50-60%) > 2 > At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, > expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. > Light (30-40%) > 3 > At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, > expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. > Occasional (<30%) > 4 > At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, > expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. > None (no through lanes to create surge noise. > 5 > table end > > table with 3 columns and 7 rows > Off Peak Traffic Presence > Direction 2 > Points > At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, > expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. > Constant (б≥ 90%) > 0 > At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, > expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. > Heavy (70-80%) > 1 > At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, > expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. > Moderate (50-60%) > 2 > At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, > expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. > Light (30-40%) > 3 > At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, > expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. > Occasional (<30%) > 4 > At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, > expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. > None (no through lanes to create surge noise. > 5 > table end > > E.) Mobility Evaluation > Each intersection being considered for audible signals should be evaluated > by a certified > orientation and mobility specialist. Based on the judgment of the O-M > specialist and the > evaluation team, additional points may be assigned based on observed or > special conditions not > adequately covered by any of the previous factors. This may include a > heavy right-turn volume, > right-turn island, right-turn signals, limited cone of "visibility", etc. > Points > Mobility and miscellaneous factors > 0-15 > Signals without Pedestrian Actuations > Signalized intersections without pedestrian actuations may be considered > for evaluation under > this priority system, provided the following conditions are met: > list of 3 items > 1. > There must be a demonstrated problem or need that can be alleviated by the > installation of an audible signal in the form of a request from an > individual or group > that would use the audible signal. > 2. > The evaluation team must unanimously concur with the need. > 3. > Appropriate pedestrian actuation buttons and circuits must be provided as > part of the > APS installation. > list end > Accessible Signals at New Signal Installations > Accessible signals will be considered for new signal installation if it is > determined that > installation is warranted by the criteria established above. > Public Notice of Installation of Accessible Signals > The City recognizes that the installation of an APS may be of interest to > the community, > especially residents in the immediate vicinity of the candidate > intersection. In addition, research > has indicated that APS are more effectively used by blind and visually > impaired pedestrians if > they have notice of its location and a basic understanding of the type of > signal installed. > Accordingly, the Director of Public Works will provide a notice to > neighbors in a 350 feet radius > from the intersection of the proposed installation of an APS at that site, > and invite concerned > citizens to contact him in writing. In addition, the Department of Public > Works will issue press > releases and informing the public and organizations serving people with > disabilities, especially > visual impairments, of type and location of proposed and installed APS. > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jmccarthy%40nfb.org > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net > From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Sat Mar 14 08:35:19 2009 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 01:35:19 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target In-Reply-To: <489BACB231A24B1494701FE7E81396B8@StevePC> References: <549FC55C53E54BA5814FA71C231CE71F@StevePC> <489BACB231A24B1494701FE7E81396B8@StevePC> Message-ID: As an individual I am insulted and damaged each time I am discriminated by a business not accommodating my ability to access their products and services, especially on the Internet when I have made sure that I have accommodated myself with the most up-to-date software to mitigate my needs as a blind person. I should not have to rely on sighted assistance to use a product or do without because the greedy corporations has chosen the most expedient road to sell their products. I am also insulted that you are posting this question. I have in my life time been sold out by too many blind people that thought they knew what I needed and I hope more companies will have to pay damages in these types of cases. Perhaps they will then learn how to meet the needs of all their customers. Fortunately here in California we have some laws with some teeth in them that are enforceable--although these teeth still need a good sharpening. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. Deeley" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 6:22 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target That is a lawyer talking who makes his living in rediculous situations like this one. Again, you show me how an individual was damaged and out $4,000.00. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott C. LaBarre" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 5:38 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target Violation of civil rights has long been recognized as a form of compensible legal damage as well it should be. Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. LaBarre Law Offices P.C. 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 Denver, Colorado 80222 303 504-5979 (voice) 303 757-3640 (fax) slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) www.labarrelaw.com (website) CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. Deeley" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 2:31 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > This is ridiculous! How were these people damaged? > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mehgan Sidhu" > To: > Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 3:20 PM > Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > >> To answer the recent questions posted about the Target case, the final >> settlement hearing took place on March 9th. I understand from our >> counsel in California, Larry Paradis of DRA and Josh Konecky, that there >> were no objectors and the Judge was pleased with the resolution of the >> case. The settlement is not fully "final" until the time for any >> appeals has run - which is about 30 days. Given there were no objectors, >> it is highly unlikely that any appeals will be filed. The judge has not >> yet made a ruling on attorneys fees, but that will not hold up >> enforcement of the settlement. >> >> >> >> As for disbursements, assuming there are no appeals, the claims >> administer has 45 days from the final approval date to disburse funds to >> claimants. I do not know the final tally of approved claimants, though I >> think there were several hundred. I will pass that information along >> when I have it. >> >> >> >> We will now be working on enforcing the settlement commitments that >> Target made with respect to the accessibility of the website. >> >> >> Mehgan Sidhu >> Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP >> 120 East Baltimore Street, Suite 1700 >> Baltimore, Maryland 21202 >> 410-962-1030 x1324 >> 410-385-0869 (fax) >> ms at browngold.com >> www.browngold.com >> >> Confidentiality Notice >> >> This e-mail may contain confidential information that may also be legally >> privileged and that is intended only for the use of the addressee(s) >> named above. If you are not the intended recipient or an authorized >> agent of the recipient, please be advised that any dissemination or >> copying of this e-mail, or taking of any action in reliance on the >> information contained herein, is strictly prohibited. If you have >> received this e-mail in error, please notify me immediately by use of the >> reply button, and then delete the e-mail from your system. Thank you! >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release Date: 03/13/09 > 05:59:00 > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/slabarre%40labarrelaw.com > _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release Date: 03/13/09 05:59:00 _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net From stevep.deeley at insightbb.com Sat Mar 14 13:24:24 2009 From: stevep.deeley at insightbb.com (Steve P. Deeley) Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 09:24:24 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target In-Reply-To: References: <549FC55C53E54BA5814FA71C231CE71F@StevePC> <489BACB231A24B1494701FE7E81396B8@StevePC> Message-ID: <78726D7BDC0D4E1EBBAE1E83A3D6FE14@StevePC> That should not result in you receiving damages of almost $4,000.00. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 4:35 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target As an individual I am insulted and damaged each time I am discriminated by a business not accommodating my ability to access their products and services, especially on the Internet when I have made sure that I have accommodated myself with the most up-to-date software to mitigate my needs as a blind person. I should not have to rely on sighted assistance to use a product or do without because the greedy corporations has chosen the most expedient road to sell their products. I am also insulted that you are posting this question. I have in my life time been sold out by too many blind people that thought they knew what I needed and I hope more companies will have to pay damages in these types of cases. Perhaps they will then learn how to meet the needs of all their customers. Fortunately here in California we have some laws with some teeth in them that are enforceable--although these teeth still need a good sharpening. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. Deeley" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 6:22 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target That is a lawyer talking who makes his living in rediculous situations like this one. Again, you show me how an individual was damaged and out $4,000.00. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott C. LaBarre" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 5:38 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target Violation of civil rights has long been recognized as a form of compensible legal damage as well it should be. Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. LaBarre Law Offices P.C. 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 Denver, Colorado 80222 303 504-5979 (voice) 303 757-3640 (fax) slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) www.labarrelaw.com (website) CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. Deeley" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 2:31 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > This is ridiculous! How were these people damaged? > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mehgan Sidhu" > To: > Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 3:20 PM > Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > >> To answer the recent questions posted about the Target case, the final >> settlement hearing took place on March 9th. I understand from our >> counsel in California, Larry Paradis of DRA and Josh Konecky, that there >> were no objectors and the Judge was pleased with the resolution of the >> case. The settlement is not fully "final" until the time for any >> appeals has run - which is about 30 days. Given there were no objectors, >> it is highly unlikely that any appeals will be filed. The judge has not >> yet made a ruling on attorneys fees, but that will not hold up >> enforcement of the settlement. >> >> >> >> As for disbursements, assuming there are no appeals, the claims >> administer has 45 days from the final approval date to disburse funds to >> claimants. I do not know the final tally of approved claimants, though I >> think there were several hundred. I will pass that information along >> when I have it. >> >> >> >> We will now be working on enforcing the settlement commitments that >> Target made with respect to the accessibility of the website. >> >> >> Mehgan Sidhu >> Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP >> 120 East Baltimore Street, Suite 1700 >> Baltimore, Maryland 21202 >> 410-962-1030 x1324 >> 410-385-0869 (fax) >> ms at browngold.com >> www.browngold.com >> >> Confidentiality Notice >> >> This e-mail may contain confidential information that may also be legally >> privileged and that is intended only for the use of the addressee(s) >> named above. If you are not the intended recipient or an authorized >> agent of the recipient, please be advised that any dissemination or >> copying of this e-mail, or taking of any action in reliance on the >> information contained herein, is strictly prohibited. If you have >> received this e-mail in error, please notify me immediately by use of the >> reply button, and then delete the e-mail from your system. Thank you! >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release Date: 03/13/09 > 05:59:00 > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/slabarre%40labarrelaw.com > _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release Date: 03/13/09 05:59:00 _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release Date: 03/13/09 05:59:00 From stevep.deeley at insightbb.com Sat Mar 14 13:25:45 2009 From: stevep.deeley at insightbb.com (Steve P. Deeley) Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 09:25:45 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target In-Reply-To: References: <549FC55C53E54BA5814FA71C231CE71F@StevePC> Message-ID: <03B8D4FE14404DA090F70CC5A0D9949B@StevePC> I want someone to show me how this results in damages of this magnitude. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rod Alcidonis" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 12:24 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > Steve: > > If you are not an attorney or a law student, we may be arguing and > understanding different concepts here. "Damage" is a legal concept, and if > not used in that sense can certainly lead to ridiculous understanding. A > damage award allows a plaintiff to be compensated for the harm caused by > the > defendant. Damages take various forms: physical harm, emotional harm, loss > wages, etc. Here as Scott said, the legislature has decided to make such > civil rights violations compensable as damages. It is a legal recognition > that a harm was caused, and it was caused to the plaintiff. The harm here > was violations of federal and State civil rights. > I hope that helps. > > Rod Alcidonis > Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009. > Roger Williams University School of Law > 10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 > Bristol, RI 02809 > Cell: 718-704-4651 > Home: 401-824-8685 > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Steve P. Deeley" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 9:20 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > >> Well, sign me up. There are dozens of Web sites a year that I can't >> access. This is just ridiculous. This is, exactly, what raises the cost >> of doing business for companies. I'm not condoning Target's continuing >> unwillingness to deal with their inaccessible >> web site, however, there is no way that an individual is damaged to the >> tune of $4,000.00. >> Steve >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Mehgan Sidhu" >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 5:02 PM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target >> >> >>> Steve, >>> >>> In addition to the ADA claim, the lawsuit was brought under California's >>> Unruh Act and Disabled Person's Act, both of which provide for minimum >>> statutory damages ($4,000 and $1,000 per violation, respectively). >>> Under >>> the agreement, members of the California class who are legally blind, >>> had >>> attempted to use Target.com between February 7, 2003 and December 9, >>> 2008, and experienced significant barriers were eligible for damages of >>> up to $3,500 per violation for a maximum of 2 violations. >>> >>> A copy of the settlement is available at the following site: >>> http://www.nfbtargetlawsuit.com/final_settlement.html >>> >>> Mehgan Sidhu >>> Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP >>> 120 East Baltimore Street, Suite 1700 >>> Baltimore, Maryland 21202 >>> 410-962-1030 x1324 >>> 410-385-0869 (fax) >>> ms at browngold.com >>> www.browngold.com >>> >>> Confidentiality Notice >>> >>> This e-mail may contain confidential information that may also be >>> legally >>> privileged and that is intended only for the use of the addressee(s) >>> named above. If you are not the intended recipient or an authorized >>> agent of the recipient, please be advised that any dissemination or >>> copying of this e-mail, or taking of any action in reliance on the >>> information contained herein, is strictly prohibited. If you have >>> received this e-mail in error, please notify me immediately by use of >>> the >>> reply button, and then delete the e-mail from your system. Thank you! >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>> On >>> Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley >>> Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 4:31 PM >>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target >>> >>> This is ridiculous! How were these people damaged? >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Mehgan Sidhu" >>> To: >>> Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 3:20 PM >>> Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target >>> >>> >>>> To answer the recent questions posted about the Target case, the final >>>> settlement hearing took place on March 9th. I understand from our >>>> counsel >>>> in California, Larry Paradis of DRA and Josh Konecky, that there were >>>> no >>>> objectors and the Judge was pleased with the resolution of the case. >>>> The >>>> settlement is not fully "final" until the time for any appeals has >>>> run - >>>> which is about 30 days. Given there were no objectors, it is highly >>>> unlikely that any appeals will be filed. The judge has not yet made a >>>> ruling on attorneys fees, but that will not hold up enforcement of the >>>> settlement. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> As for disbursements, assuming there are no appeals, the claims >>>> administer >>>> has 45 days from the final approval date to disburse funds to >>>> claimants. >>>> I do not know the final tally of approved claimants, though I think >>>> there >>>> were several hundred. I will pass that information along when I have >>>> it. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> We will now be working on enforcing the settlement commitments that >>>> Target >>>> made with respect to the accessibility of the website. >>>> >>>> >>>> Mehgan Sidhu >>>> Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP >>>> 120 East Baltimore Street, Suite 1700 >>>> Baltimore, Maryland 21202 >>>> 410-962-1030 x1324 >>>> 410-385-0869 (fax) >>>> ms at browngold.com >>>> www.browngold.com >>>> >>>> Confidentiality Notice >>>> >>>> This e-mail may contain confidential information that may also be >>>> legally >>>> privileged and that is intended only for the use of the addressee(s) >>>> named >>>> above. If you are not the intended recipient or an authorized agent of >>>> the recipient, please be advised that any dissemination or copying of >>>> this >>>> e-mail, or taking of any action in reliance on the information >>>> contained >>>> herein, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in >>>> error, please notify me immediately by use of the reply button, and >>>> then >>>> delete the e-mail from your system. Thank you! >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com >>> >>> >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> >>> >>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>> Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release Date: >>> 03/13/09 >>> 05:59:00 >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ms%40browngold.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release Date: >> 03/13/09 >> 05:59:00 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release Date: 03/13/09 05:59:00 From stevep.deeley at insightbb.com Sat Mar 14 13:26:44 2009 From: stevep.deeley at insightbb.com (Steve P. Deeley) Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 09:26:44 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target In-Reply-To: <001301c9a442$63a1e180$6401a8c0@server> References: <549FC55C53E54BA5814FA71C231CE71F@StevePC> <001301c9a442$63a1e180$6401a8c0@server> Message-ID: <588EC588BDA14F18B7560ACF4C83829B@StevePC> I'm quite certain there was psychological damage as well, right??? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dennis Clark" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 9:15 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > They were damaged in that they were not able to place orders on Targets > website using screen readers. As a result you would have to make > purchases > on the Target website using sighted assistance, likely paid assistance, or > you would have to go to a Target store. If retailers like Target do not > wish to make their websites available to all people, all they need to do > is > take the website down, and we can all go to the store in person to make > our > purchases. > All the best, > Dennis > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Steve P. Deeley" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 1:31 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > >> This is ridiculous! How were these people damaged? >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Mehgan Sidhu" >> To: >> Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 3:20 PM >> Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target >> >> >>> To answer the recent questions posted about the Target case, the final >>> settlement hearing took place on March 9th. I understand from our >>> counsel in California, Larry Paradis of DRA and Josh Konecky, that there >>> were no objectors and the Judge was pleased with the resolution of the >>> case. The settlement is not fully "final" until the time for any >>> appeals has run - which is about 30 days. Given there were no >>> objectors, >>> it is highly unlikely that any appeals will be filed. The judge has not >>> yet made a ruling on attorneys fees, but that will not hold up >>> enforcement of the settlement. >>> >>> >>> >>> As for disbursements, assuming there are no appeals, the claims >>> administer has 45 days from the final approval date to disburse funds to >>> claimants. I do not know the final tally of approved claimants, though I >>> think there were several hundred. I will pass that information along >>> when I have it. >>> >>> >>> >>> We will now be working on enforcing the settlement commitments that >>> Target made with respect to the accessibility of the website. >>> >>> >>> Mehgan Sidhu >>> Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP >>> 120 East Baltimore Street, Suite 1700 >>> Baltimore, Maryland 21202 >>> 410-962-1030 x1324 >>> 410-385-0869 (fax) >>> ms at browngold.com >>> www.browngold.com >>> >>> Confidentiality Notice >>> >>> This e-mail may contain confidential information that may also be >>> legally >>> privileged and that is intended only for the use of the addressee(s) >>> named above. If you are not the intended recipient or an authorized >>> agent of the recipient, please be advised that any dissemination or >>> copying of this e-mail, or taking of any action in reliance on the >>> information contained herein, is strictly prohibited. If you have >>> received this e-mail in error, please notify me immediately by use of >>> the >>> reply button, and then delete the e-mail from your system. Thank you! >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release Date: >> 03/13/09 >> 05:59:00 >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dennisgclark%40sbcglobal.net > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release Date: 03/13/09 05:59:00 From roddj12 at hotmail.com Sat Mar 14 13:27:42 2009 From: roddj12 at hotmail.com (Rod Alcidonis) Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 09:27:42 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target References: <549FC55C53E54BA5814FA71C231CE71F@StevePC> <489BACB231A24B1494701FE7E81396B8@StevePC> Message-ID: Steve: The effort here was to try to help your understanding and educate your logic, not to justify the existence of the legal system. I am afraid that you are still not willing to accept that "damage" as used in the law is a term of art. Meaning, It has a specific legal definition different from normal use. It is different when you say that "my bicycle was damaged, for example. It is a legal recognition that certain harms should be compensated. In this case, the plaintiffs are being paid not for the fact that they were physically damage in the normal use of the term, but for violations of their civil rights. See Denis' e-mail for what the harm was. In the bicycle example, if someone were to break your bicycle, you can receive "damages" as the cost of repair, or replacement of the bicycle. By the way, you are also entitled to enforce your civil rights if you so choose and receive damages. Not every violations entitle someone to such remedy. When a person cannot get damages under the law, that person has the option of seeking equitable relief in the form of an injunction or restraining order against the defendant. In this case damages was available as a remedy so the plaintiffs are getting money. They are getting paid because their civil rights were violated. I hope this further helps inform your comments. Take care. Rod Alcidonis Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009. Roger Williams University School of Law 10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 Bristol, RI 02809 Cell: 718-704-4651 Home: 401-824-8685 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. Deeley" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 9:22 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target That is a lawyer talking who makes his living in rediculous situations like this one. Again, you show me how an individual was damaged and out $4,000.00. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott C. LaBarre" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 5:38 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target Violation of civil rights has long been recognized as a form of compensible legal damage as well it should be. Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. LaBarre Law Offices P.C. 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 Denver, Colorado 80222 303 504-5979 (voice) 303 757-3640 (fax) slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) www.labarrelaw.com (website) CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. Deeley" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 2:31 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > This is ridiculous! How were these people damaged? > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mehgan Sidhu" > To: > Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 3:20 PM > Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > >> To answer the recent questions posted about the Target case, the final >> settlement hearing took place on March 9th. I understand from our >> counsel in California, Larry Paradis of DRA and Josh Konecky, that there >> were no objectors and the Judge was pleased with the resolution of the >> case. The settlement is not fully "final" until the time for any >> appeals has run - which is about 30 days. Given there were no objectors, >> it is highly unlikely that any appeals will be filed. The judge has not >> yet made a ruling on attorneys fees, but that will not hold up >> enforcement of the settlement. >> >> >> >> As for disbursements, assuming there are no appeals, the claims >> administer has 45 days from the final approval date to disburse funds to >> claimants. I do not know the final tally of approved claimants, though I >> think there were several hundred. I will pass that information along >> when I have it. >> >> >> >> We will now be working on enforcing the settlement commitments that >> Target made with respect to the accessibility of the website. >> >> >> Mehgan Sidhu >> Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP >> 120 East Baltimore Street, Suite 1700 >> Baltimore, Maryland 21202 >> 410-962-1030 x1324 >> 410-385-0869 (fax) >> ms at browngold.com >> www.browngold.com >> >> Confidentiality Notice >> >> This e-mail may contain confidential information that may also be legally >> privileged and that is intended only for the use of the addressee(s) >> named above. If you are not the intended recipient or an authorized >> agent of the recipient, please be advised that any dissemination or >> copying of this e-mail, or taking of any action in reliance on the >> information contained herein, is strictly prohibited. If you have >> received this e-mail in error, please notify me immediately by use of the >> reply button, and then delete the e-mail from your system. Thank you! >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release Date: 03/13/09 > 05:59:00 > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/slabarre%40labarrelaw.com > _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release Date: 03/13/09 05:59:00 _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail.com From lmilholland at hotmail.com Sat Mar 14 14:48:33 2009 From: lmilholland at hotmail.com (Locke Milholland) Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 10:48:33 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target References: <549FC55C53E54BA5814FA71C231CE71F@StevePC><001301c9a442$63a1e180$6401a8c0@server> <588EC588BDA14F18B7560ACF4C83829B@StevePC> Message-ID: Steve, Suppose, instead of a reasoned one, I were to insert an ad homonym response for explaining for a third time what your sarcasm indicates a continued lack of understanding, then you could hypothetically claim defamation. I've seen no calculus for computing damages, yet in defamation cases damages are nevertheless, reduced to monetary awards. The damages are as much against the defendant as for the plaintiff in some cases. If my actual pecuniary damages from having to shop through Amazon's accessible website over Target's inaccessible website were ten cents for a dvd, then the damages are likely not to encourage Target to do anything towards remedying their website. Four thousand dollars per instance may. A remedy at law is easier to enforce than one in equity for specific performance. A defined amount of damages has more bite than calculated out-of-pocket damages, and our envy of not being in California and denied shopping at target can continue from our less proactive jurisdictions. Locke ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. Deeley" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 9:26 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > I'm quite certain there was psychological damage as well, right??? > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Dennis Clark" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 9:15 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > >> They were damaged in that they were not able to place orders on Targets >> website using screen readers. As a result you would have to make >> purchases >> on the Target website using sighted assistance, likely paid assistance, >> or >> you would have to go to a Target store. If retailers like Target do not >> wish to make their websites available to all people, all they need to do >> is >> take the website down, and we can all go to the store in person to make >> our >> purchases. >> All the best, >> Dennis >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Steve P. Deeley" >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 1:31 PM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target >> >> >>> This is ridiculous! How were these people damaged? >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Mehgan Sidhu" >>> To: >>> Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 3:20 PM >>> Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target >>> >>> >>>> To answer the recent questions posted about the Target case, the final >>>> settlement hearing took place on March 9th. I understand from our >>>> counsel in California, Larry Paradis of DRA and Josh Konecky, that >>>> there >>>> were no objectors and the Judge was pleased with the resolution of the >>>> case. The settlement is not fully "final" until the time for any >>>> appeals has run - which is about 30 days. Given there were no >>>> objectors, >>>> it is highly unlikely that any appeals will be filed. The judge has >>>> not >>>> yet made a ruling on attorneys fees, but that will not hold up >>>> enforcement of the settlement. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> As for disbursements, assuming there are no appeals, the claims >>>> administer has 45 days from the final approval date to disburse funds >>>> to >>>> claimants. I do not know the final tally of approved claimants, though >>>> I >>>> think there were several hundred. I will pass that information along >>>> when I have it. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> We will now be working on enforcing the settlement commitments that >>>> Target made with respect to the accessibility of the website. >>>> >>>> >>>> Mehgan Sidhu >>>> Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP >>>> 120 East Baltimore Street, Suite 1700 >>>> Baltimore, Maryland 21202 >>>> 410-962-1030 x1324 >>>> 410-385-0869 (fax) >>>> ms at browngold.com >>>> www.browngold.com >>>> >>>> Confidentiality Notice >>>> >>>> This e-mail may contain confidential information that may also be >>>> legally >>>> privileged and that is intended only for the use of the addressee(s) >>>> named above. If you are not the intended recipient or an authorized >>>> agent of the recipient, please be advised that any dissemination or >>>> copying of this e-mail, or taking of any action in reliance on the >>>> information contained herein, is strictly prohibited. If you have >>>> received this e-mail in error, please notify me immediately by use of >>>> the >>>> reply button, and then delete the e-mail from your system. Thank you! >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com >>> >>> >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> >>> >>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>> Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release Date: >>> 03/13/09 >>> 05:59:00 >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dennisgclark%40sbcglobal.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release Date: 03/13/09 > 05:59:00 > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/lmilholland%40hotmail.com > From jsorozco at gmail.com Sat Mar 14 14:52:15 2009 From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco) Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 10:52:15 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target In-Reply-To: <78726D7BDC0D4E1EBBAE1E83A3D6FE14@StevePC> Message-ID: What troubles me is that my question of accessibility standards has not been answered on the other case against the LSAC. The same question is applicable here. What standard was used to conclude that the web site was not accessible? I do not claim to be a genius at manipulating technology to serve my needs, but I did not have to try hard at all to make Target give me what I needed between 2005 and 2008. So is the problem the web site layout, or is it our own technology training? Rather than chase every entity with features a few people deem inaccessible, would it not be prudent to take our standards, whatever those may be, to the classroom, to the software developers, the relevant associations raising the performance standards of its students and members? This method of engineering change gives us the perception of a watchdog group. If this is what we have become, and given the small margin of the population we represent, I would rather trigger change at the source rather than at the output. Joe Orozco "A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the crowd."--Max Lucado -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 9:24 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target That should not result in you receiving damages of almost $4,000.00. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 4:35 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target As an individual I am insulted and damaged each time I am discriminated by a business not accommodating my ability to access their products and services, especially on the Internet when I have made sure that I have accommodated myself with the most up-to-date software to mitigate my needs as a blind person. I should not have to rely on sighted assistance to use a product or do without because the greedy corporations has chosen the most expedient road to sell their products. I am also insulted that you are posting this question. I have in my life time been sold out by too many blind people that thought they knew what I needed and I hope more companies will have to pay damages in these types of cases. Perhaps they will then learn how to meet the needs of all their customers. Fortunately here in California we have some laws with some teeth in them that are enforceable--although these teeth still need a good sharpening. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. Deeley" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 6:22 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target That is a lawyer talking who makes his living in rediculous situations like this one. Again, you show me how an individual was damaged and out $4,000.00. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott C. LaBarre" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 5:38 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target Violation of civil rights has long been recognized as a form of compensible legal damage as well it should be. Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. LaBarre Law Offices P.C. 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 Denver, Colorado 80222 303 504-5979 (voice) 303 757-3640 (fax) slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) www.labarrelaw.com (website) CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. Deeley" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 2:31 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > This is ridiculous! How were these people damaged? > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mehgan Sidhu" > To: > Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 3:20 PM > Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > >> To answer the recent questions posted about the Target case, the final >> settlement hearing took place on March 9th. I understand from our >> counsel in California, Larry Paradis of DRA and Josh Konecky, that there >> were no objectors and the Judge was pleased with the resolution of the >> case. The settlement is not fully "final" until the time for any >> appeals has run - which is about 30 days. Given there were no objectors, >> it is highly unlikely that any appeals will be filed. The judge has not >> yet made a ruling on attorneys fees, but that will not hold up >> enforcement of the settlement. >> >> >> >> As for disbursements, assuming there are no appeals, the claims >> administer has 45 days from the final approval date to disburse funds to >> claimants. I do not know the final tally of approved claimants, though I >> think there were several hundred. I will pass that information along >> when I have it. >> >> >> >> We will now be working on enforcing the settlement commitments that >> Target made with respect to the accessibility of the website. >> >> >> Mehgan Sidhu >> Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP >> 120 East Baltimore Street, Suite 1700 >> Baltimore, Maryland 21202 >> 410-962-1030 x1324 >> 410-385-0869 (fax) >> ms at browngold.com >> www.browngold.com >> >> Confidentiality Notice >> >> This e-mail may contain confidential information that may also be legally >> privileged and that is intended only for the use of the addressee(s) >> named above. If you are not the intended recipient or an authorized >> agent of the recipient, please be advised that any dissemination or >> copying of this e-mail, or taking of any action in reliance on the >> information contained herein, is strictly prohibited. If you have >> received this e-mail in error, please notify me immediately by use of the >> reply button, and then delete the e-mail from your system. Thank you! >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep .deeley%40insightbb.com > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release Date: 03/13/09 > 05:59:00 > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/slabar re%40labarrelaw.com > _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep .deeley%40insightbb.com ---------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release Date: 03/13/09 05:59:00 _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugm an%40sbcglobal.net _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep .deeley%40insightbb.com ---------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release Date: 03/13/09 05:59:00 _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jsoroz co%40gmail.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3936 (20090313) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3936 (20090313) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From stevep.deeley at insightbb.com Sat Mar 14 16:41:51 2009 From: stevep.deeley at insightbb.com (Steve P. Deeley) Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 12:41:51 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target In-Reply-To: References: <549FC55C53E54BA5814FA71C231CE71F@StevePC> <489BACB231A24B1494701FE7E81396B8@StevePC> Message-ID: <3C355AFB1ACB43EEBDBD9356D3EFBF38@StevePC> I understand that, however, I just do not agree with the entire concept of awarding damages in this sort of case. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rod Alcidonis" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 9:27 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target Steve: The effort here was to try to help your understanding and educate your logic, not to justify the existence of the legal system. I am afraid that you are still not willing to accept that "damage" as used in the law is a term of art. Meaning, It has a specific legal definition different from normal use. It is different when you say that "my bicycle was damaged, for example. It is a legal recognition that certain harms should be compensated. In this case, the plaintiffs are being paid not for the fact that they were physically damage in the normal use of the term, but for violations of their civil rights. See Denis' e-mail for what the harm was. In the bicycle example, if someone were to break your bicycle, you can receive "damages" as the cost of repair, or replacement of the bicycle. By the way, you are also entitled to enforce your civil rights if you so choose and receive damages. Not every violations entitle someone to such remedy. When a person cannot get damages under the law, that person has the option of seeking equitable relief in the form of an injunction or restraining order against the defendant. In this case damages was available as a remedy so the plaintiffs are getting money. They are getting paid because their civil rights were violated. I hope this further helps inform your comments. Take care. Rod Alcidonis Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009. Roger Williams University School of Law 10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 Bristol, RI 02809 Cell: 718-704-4651 Home: 401-824-8685 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. Deeley" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 9:22 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target That is a lawyer talking who makes his living in rediculous situations like this one. Again, you show me how an individual was damaged and out $4,000.00. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott C. LaBarre" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 5:38 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target Violation of civil rights has long been recognized as a form of compensible legal damage as well it should be. Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. LaBarre Law Offices P.C. 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 Denver, Colorado 80222 303 504-5979 (voice) 303 757-3640 (fax) slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) www.labarrelaw.com (website) CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. Deeley" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 2:31 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > This is ridiculous! How were these people damaged? > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mehgan Sidhu" > To: > Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 3:20 PM > Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > >> To answer the recent questions posted about the Target case, the final >> settlement hearing took place on March 9th. I understand from our >> counsel in California, Larry Paradis of DRA and Josh Konecky, that there >> were no objectors and the Judge was pleased with the resolution of the >> case. The settlement is not fully "final" until the time for any >> appeals has run - which is about 30 days. Given there were no objectors, >> it is highly unlikely that any appeals will be filed. The judge has not >> yet made a ruling on attorneys fees, but that will not hold up >> enforcement of the settlement. >> >> >> >> As for disbursements, assuming there are no appeals, the claims >> administer has 45 days from the final approval date to disburse funds to >> claimants. I do not know the final tally of approved claimants, though I >> think there were several hundred. I will pass that information along >> when I have it. >> >> >> >> We will now be working on enforcing the settlement commitments that >> Target made with respect to the accessibility of the website. >> >> >> Mehgan Sidhu >> Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP >> 120 East Baltimore Street, Suite 1700 >> Baltimore, Maryland 21202 >> 410-962-1030 x1324 >> 410-385-0869 (fax) >> ms at browngold.com >> www.browngold.com >> >> Confidentiality Notice >> >> This e-mail may contain confidential information that may also be legally >> privileged and that is intended only for the use of the addressee(s) >> named above. If you are not the intended recipient or an authorized >> agent of the recipient, please be advised that any dissemination or >> copying of this e-mail, or taking of any action in reliance on the >> information contained herein, is strictly prohibited. If you have >> received this e-mail in error, please notify me immediately by use of the >> reply button, and then delete the e-mail from your system. Thank you! >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release Date: 03/13/09 > 05:59:00 > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/slabarre%40labarrelaw.com > _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release Date: 03/13/09 05:59:00 _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/2001 - Release Date: 03/14/09 06:54:00 From stevep.deeley at insightbb.com Sat Mar 14 16:52:54 2009 From: stevep.deeley at insightbb.com (Steve P. Deeley) Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 12:52:54 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Joe, I really like that response. What difficulties did you have with the web site. Wasn't the case in involving Target filed in California? The California laws in the area of civil rights make it much easier to litigate a case like this one in a state like California. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Orozco" To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 10:52 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target What troubles me is that my question of accessibility standards has not been answered on the other case against the LSAC. The same question is applicable here. What standard was used to conclude that the web site was not accessible? I do not claim to be a genius at manipulating technology to serve my needs, but I did not have to try hard at all to make Target give me what I needed between 2005 and 2008. So is the problem the web site layout, or is it our own technology training? Rather than chase every entity with features a few people deem inaccessible, would it not be prudent to take our standards, whatever those may be, to the classroom, to the software developers, the relevant associations raising the performance standards of its students and members? This method of engineering change gives us the perception of a watchdog group. If this is what we have become, and given the small margin of the population we represent, I would rather trigger change at the source rather than at the output. Joe Orozco "A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the crowd."--Max Lucado -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 9:24 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target That should not result in you receiving damages of almost $4,000.00. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 4:35 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target As an individual I am insulted and damaged each time I am discriminated by a business not accommodating my ability to access their products and services, especially on the Internet when I have made sure that I have accommodated myself with the most up-to-date software to mitigate my needs as a blind person. I should not have to rely on sighted assistance to use a product or do without because the greedy corporations has chosen the most expedient road to sell their products. I am also insulted that you are posting this question. I have in my life time been sold out by too many blind people that thought they knew what I needed and I hope more companies will have to pay damages in these types of cases. Perhaps they will then learn how to meet the needs of all their customers. Fortunately here in California we have some laws with some teeth in them that are enforceable--although these teeth still need a good sharpening. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. Deeley" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 6:22 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target That is a lawyer talking who makes his living in rediculous situations like this one. Again, you show me how an individual was damaged and out $4,000.00. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott C. LaBarre" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 5:38 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target Violation of civil rights has long been recognized as a form of compensible legal damage as well it should be. Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. LaBarre Law Offices P.C. 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 Denver, Colorado 80222 303 504-5979 (voice) 303 757-3640 (fax) slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) www.labarrelaw.com (website) CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. Deeley" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 2:31 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > This is ridiculous! How were these people damaged? > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mehgan Sidhu" > To: > Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 3:20 PM > Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > >> To answer the recent questions posted about the Target case, the final >> settlement hearing took place on March 9th. I understand from our >> counsel in California, Larry Paradis of DRA and Josh Konecky, that there >> were no objectors and the Judge was pleased with the resolution of the >> case. The settlement is not fully "final" until the time for any >> appeals has run - which is about 30 days. Given there were no objectors, >> it is highly unlikely that any appeals will be filed. The judge has not >> yet made a ruling on attorneys fees, but that will not hold up >> enforcement of the settlement. >> >> >> >> As for disbursements, assuming there are no appeals, the claims >> administer has 45 days from the final approval date to disburse funds to >> claimants. I do not know the final tally of approved claimants, though I >> think there were several hundred. I will pass that information along >> when I have it. >> >> >> >> We will now be working on enforcing the settlement commitments that >> Target made with respect to the accessibility of the website. >> >> >> Mehgan Sidhu >> Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP >> 120 East Baltimore Street, Suite 1700 >> Baltimore, Maryland 21202 >> 410-962-1030 x1324 >> 410-385-0869 (fax) >> ms at browngold.com >> www.browngold.com >> >> Confidentiality Notice >> >> This e-mail may contain confidential information that may also be legally >> privileged and that is intended only for the use of the addressee(s) >> named above. If you are not the intended recipient or an authorized >> agent of the recipient, please be advised that any dissemination or >> copying of this e-mail, or taking of any action in reliance on the >> information contained herein, is strictly prohibited. If you have >> received this e-mail in error, please notify me immediately by use of the >> reply button, and then delete the e-mail from your system. Thank you! >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep .deeley%40insightbb.com > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release Date: 03/13/09 > 05:59:00 > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/slabar re%40labarrelaw.com > _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep .deeley%40insightbb.com ---------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release Date: 03/13/09 05:59:00 _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugm an%40sbcglobal.net _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep .deeley%40insightbb.com ---------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release Date: 03/13/09 05:59:00 _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jsoroz co%40gmail.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3936 (20090313) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3936 (20090313) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/2001 - Release Date: 03/14/09 06:54:00 From mikefry79 at gmail.com Sat Mar 14 16:55:32 2009 From: mikefry79 at gmail.com (Michael Fry) Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 09:55:32 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Introduction In-Reply-To: <5AA77F8E31F74CECB341D611142A624F@labarre> References: <5AA77F8E31F74CECB341D611142A624F@labarre> Message-ID: <8c58e54a0903140955k6f926483n72e197e592b135cc@mail.gmail.com> Hi Megan, welcome to the group. On Fri, Mar 13, 2009 at 2:51 PM, Scott C. LaBarre wrote: > Welcome Mehgan. You make a great addition to the group! > Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. > > LaBarre Law Offices P.C. > 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 > Denver, Colorado 80222 > 303 504-5979 (voice) > 303 757-3640 (fax) > slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) > www.labarrelaw.com (website) > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and > privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not > read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message > in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or > slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. This > message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic > Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mehgan Sidhu" > To: > Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 12:51 PM > Subject: [blindlaw] Introduction > > > Hello Listserv Members, >> >> I just joined the listserv so that I can share relevant information on >> this forum. I'm an attorney at Brown, Goldstein & Levy and one of several >> attorneys at the firm who represents the National Federation of the Blind on >> access technology and other litigation matters. I've been with the firm for >> about two-and-a-half years and have worked on the Target case, the Apple >> iTunes settlement, and other website, technology and education cases. >> Recently, I've been working with Scott LaBarre, Disability Rights >> Advocates, and others on the listserv in the action against the LSAC's >> inaccessible website and have been working more generally on issues related >> to access to e-books for the NFB. I look forward to sharing information >> that may be useful, particularly related to the access technology issues. >> >> Best, >> Mehgan >> >> Mehgan Sidhu >> Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP >> 120 East Baltimore Street, Suite 1700 >> Baltimore, Maryland 21202 >> 410-962-1030 x1324 >> 410-385-0869 (fax) >> ms at browngold.com >> www.browngold.com >> >> Confidentiality Notice >> >> This e-mail may contain confidential information that may also be legally >> privileged and that is intended only for the use of the addressee(s) named >> above. If you are not the intended recipient or an authorized agent of the >> recipient, please be advised that any dissemination or copying of this >> e-mail, or taking of any action in reliance on the information contained >> herein, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, >> please notify me immediately by use of the reply button, and then delete the >> e-mail from your system. Thank you! >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/slabarre%40labarrelaw.com >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mikefry79%40gmail.com > From stevep.deeley at insightbb.com Sat Mar 14 16:57:30 2009 From: stevep.deeley at insightbb.com (Steve P. Deeley) Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 12:57:30 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target In-Reply-To: References: <549FC55C53E54BA5814FA71C231CE71F@StevePC> <001301c9a442$63a1e180$6401a8c0@server> <588EC588BDA14F18B7560ACF4C83829B@StevePC> Message-ID: <2C3EB2C010F94C3B85C01489EFB4B82B@StevePC> Some Sarcasm, I will admit, why not $4.00 and have the courts enforce the judicial order to remedy the situation. My real question in all of this is to learn how the amount of damages were arrived at in the case? Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Locke Milholland" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 10:48 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > Steve, > Suppose, instead of a reasoned one, I were to insert an ad homonym > response > for explaining for a third time what your sarcasm indicates a continued > lack > of understanding, then you could hypothetically claim defamation. I've > seen > no calculus for computing damages, yet in defamation cases damages are > nevertheless, reduced to monetary awards. The damages are as much against > the defendant as for the plaintiff in some cases. > > If my actual pecuniary damages from having to shop through Amazon's > accessible website over Target's inaccessible website were ten cents for a > dvd, then the damages are likely not to encourage Target to do anything > towards remedying their website. Four thousand dollars per instance may. > A > remedy at law is easier to enforce than one in equity for specific > performance. > > A defined amount of damages has more bite than calculated out-of-pocket > damages, and our envy of not being in California and denied shopping at > target can continue from our less proactive jurisdictions. > > > Locke > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Steve P. Deeley" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 9:26 AM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > >> I'm quite certain there was psychological damage as well, right??? >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Dennis Clark" >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 9:15 PM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target >> >> >>> They were damaged in that they were not able to place orders on Targets >>> website using screen readers. As a result you would have to make >>> purchases >>> on the Target website using sighted assistance, likely paid assistance, >>> or >>> you would have to go to a Target store. If retailers like Target do not >>> wish to make their websites available to all people, all they need to do >>> is >>> take the website down, and we can all go to the store in person to make >>> our >>> purchases. >>> All the best, >>> Dennis >>> >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Steve P. Deeley" >>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>> Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 1:31 PM >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target >>> >>> >>>> This is ridiculous! How were these people damaged? >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Mehgan Sidhu" >>>> To: >>>> Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 3:20 PM >>>> Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target >>>> >>>> >>>>> To answer the recent questions posted about the Target case, the final >>>>> settlement hearing took place on March 9th. I understand from our >>>>> counsel in California, Larry Paradis of DRA and Josh Konecky, that >>>>> there >>>>> were no objectors and the Judge was pleased with the resolution of the >>>>> case. The settlement is not fully "final" until the time for any >>>>> appeals has run - which is about 30 days. Given there were no >>>>> objectors, >>>>> it is highly unlikely that any appeals will be filed. The judge has >>>>> not >>>>> yet made a ruling on attorneys fees, but that will not hold up >>>>> enforcement of the settlement. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> As for disbursements, assuming there are no appeals, the claims >>>>> administer has 45 days from the final approval date to disburse funds >>>>> to >>>>> claimants. I do not know the final tally of approved claimants, though >>>>> I >>>>> think there were several hundred. I will pass that information along >>>>> when I have it. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> We will now be working on enforcing the settlement commitments that >>>>> Target made with respect to the accessibility of the website. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Mehgan Sidhu >>>>> Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP >>>>> 120 East Baltimore Street, Suite 1700 >>>>> Baltimore, Maryland 21202 >>>>> 410-962-1030 x1324 >>>>> 410-385-0869 (fax) >>>>> ms at browngold.com >>>>> www.browngold.com >>>>> >>>>> Confidentiality Notice >>>>> >>>>> This e-mail may contain confidential information that may also be >>>>> legally >>>>> privileged and that is intended only for the use of the addressee(s) >>>>> named above. If you are not the intended recipient or an authorized >>>>> agent of the recipient, please be advised that any dissemination or >>>>> copying of this e-mail, or taking of any action in reliance on the >>>>> information contained herein, is strictly prohibited. If you have >>>>> received this e-mail in error, please notify me immediately by use of >>>>> the >>>>> reply button, and then delete the e-mail from your system. Thank you! >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> blindlaw: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com >>>> >>>> >>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>>> Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release Date: >>>> 03/13/09 >>>> 05:59:00 >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dennisgclark%40sbcglobal.net >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release Date: >> 03/13/09 >> 05:59:00 >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/lmilholland%40hotmail.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/2001 - Release Date: 03/14/09 06:54:00 From mikefry79 at gmail.com Sat Mar 14 17:01:42 2009 From: mikefry79 at gmail.com (Michael Fry) Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 10:01:42 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. lsac complaint In-Reply-To: <01b801c9a463$f3c9b550$7100a8c0@computer> References: <49bb3c67.8905be0a.68cc.5e82SMTPIN_ADDED@mx.google.com> <01b801c9a463$f3c9b550$7100a8c0@computer> Message-ID: <8c58e54a0903141001w4710645v5f47c25aa0300a1f@mail.gmail.com> I did not know that a new policy regarding evalution of multiple LSAT scores had been implemented. I agree with Angie and Craig that its better. On Fri, Mar 13, 2009 at 10:15 PM, Craig Borne wrote: > Angie, > I wonder how many ABA accredited schools will follow the ABA's advice. I > really believe this is a better way to go, though neither the ABA or law > schools in general have solicited my advice. Shame on them. > Craig > > > Craig Borne > Baltimore, Maryland > "A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial > appearance of being right, and raises at first a formidable outcry in > defense of custom." --Thomas Paine, Common Sense > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of Angie Matney > Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 12:55 AM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. lsac complaint > > Now that the ABA advises schools to only consider the highest score, it > would seem to be less likely that a low first score would be considered > irreparable harm. > > Angie > > On Fri, 13 Mar 2009 02:31:57 -0400, Rod Alcidonis wrote: > > >Well, academically speaking, the law suit could have prayed for a > Temporary > > >Restraining Order, or a preliminary Injunction against the LSAC for folks > >like you. Basically enjoined the LSAC from administering the exam until > they > >make the changes. The only difficulty with that I think justifies the > reason > >they probably did not pray for such a relief is that such a measure would > >cause too much harm to the public, I.E, the thousands of law students and > >schools who rely on the exam to make admissions decisions. Such an order > >while it would have forced the LSAC to make the changes much faster, it > >would have unreasonably halted the system for some times. If it were a > class > >action with thousands of members, it probably would have been easier to > >argue, I think. Whether not passing an exam for the first time is > considered > >irreparable harm is another question -- you can still make the argument > >under these circumstances. > > >Rod Alcidonis > >Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009. > >Roger Williams University School of Law > >10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 > >Bristol, RI 02809 > >Cell: 718-704-4651 > >Home: 401-824-8685 > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Bill Spiry" > >To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" > >Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2009 9:52 PM > >Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. lsac complaint > > > >I understand. What might be done to getLSAC to authorize use of this > >material as an accessible alternative to what they have to offer? I know > NFB > >is sueing them, but in the mean time that leaves folks like me who don't > >have the Adobe skills you have, and facing the LSAT soon without > accessible > >matter. Any ideas or suggestions? > > >Thanks. > >-----Original Message----- > >From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > >Behalf Of James Pepper > >Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 10:43 AM > >To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > >Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. lsac complaint > > >Well Bill the content is copyrighted by LSAC so I am not sure I can send > >this to you. Perhaps some on this list can give that advice. I laid it out > >properly. > > >James > > >On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 9:05 AM, Bill Spiry wrote: > > >> I would appreciate receiving this as well. Thanks. > >> bspiry at comcast.net > >> > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] > On > >> Behalf Of James Pepper > >> Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 1:46 AM > >> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. lsac complaint > >> > >> Scott: I laid out the first section of the LSAT to be accessible and I > >> can > >> send you the files if you would like to see it. Also I made the form > that > >> they use accessible so the blind can fill out the test without > assistance. > >> This works with JAWS and Window Eyes and a combination of Adobe's Read > out > >> Loud and Microsoft Narrator. My process works and if you need > references > >> at > >> NFB, AFB and the AAPD I can send them to you. > >> > >> It took a while to figure out how they made thier pdfs and I know where > >> they > >> are making their mistakes. I can correct this problem. These PDFs are > >made > >> to work natively with JAWS and Adobe Reader and the other screen readers > >> without making any adjustments. They work with the default settings in > >> Adobe Reader. > >> > >> Also the forms can be digitally signed and saved and all that fancy > stuff > >> that you expect with Adobe Acrobat Professional can be done with > >> Adobe Reader, versions 8 or 9 which is the free download from Adobe.com. > >> So > >> we can make the LSAT accessible to anyone with a PC running Windows XP > Or > >> VIsta without any change of settings. This means the PC can be there > for > >> the sighted and the blind, with equal access for all. > >> > >> Also since I labeled everything, it will be a lot quicker for you to > fill > >> out this test! > >> > >> Sincerely, > >> > >> James G. Pepper > >> > >> > >> > >> On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 4:32 PM, Scott C. LaBarre > >> wrote: > >> > >> > Below I am sharing the complaint that we filed today in California > >Court. > >> > ************** > >> > LaurEnce W. paradis (California Bar No. 122336) > >> > > >> > Anna levine (California Bar No. 227881) > >> > > >> > Disability Rights Advocates > >> > > >> > 2001 Center Street, Third Floor > >> > > >> > Berkeley, California 94704 > >> > > >> > Telephone: (510) 665-8644 > >> > > >> > Facsimile: (510) 665-8511 > >> > > >> > TTY: (510) 665-8716 > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > SCOTT LABARRE (to seek pro hac vice admission) > >> > > >> > LABARRE LAW OFFICES, P.C. > >> > > >> > 1660 S. Albion Street, Ste 918 > >> > > >> > Denver, Colo 80222 > >> > > >> > Telephone: (303) 504-5979 > >> > > >> > Fax: (303) 757-3640 > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > DANIEL F. GOLDSTEIN (to seek pro hac vice admission) > >> > > >> > MEHGAN Sidhu (to seek pro hac vice admission) > >> > > >> > Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP > >> > > >> > 120 E. Baltimore St., Suite 1700 > >> > > >> > Baltimore, MD 21202 > >> > > >> > Telephone: (410) 962-1030 > >> > > >> > Fax: (410) 385-0869 > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > SUPERIOR COURT OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA > >> > COUNTY OF ALAMEDA > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > National Federation of the Blind, the National Federation of the > >> Blind > >> > of CALIFORNIA, and DEEPA GORAYA, > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > Plaintiffs, > >> > > >> > v. > >> > > >> > LAW SCHOOL ADMISSION COUNCIL, INC., > >> > > >> > Defendant. > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > Case No.: > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > COMPLAINT FOR INJUNCTIVE AND DECLARATORY RELIEF FOR VIOLATIONS OF > >> THE > >> > CALIFORNIA DISABLED PERSONS ACT AND UNRUH CIVIL RIGHTS ACT > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > INTRODUCTION > >> > > >> > Plaintiffs complain of Defendant and allege herein as follows: > >> > > >> > 1. This action, brought by the National Federation of the > Blind, > >> > the National Federation of the Blind of California, and Deepa Goraya, > >> seeks > >> > to put an end to civil rights violations committed by defendant Law > >> School > >> > Admissions Council (hereafter "LSAC") against blind persons seeking to > >> take > >> > the LSAT exam and apply to law schools. Plaintiff Deepa Goraya, a > blind > >> law > >> > school applicant in California, has been and is being denied equal > >access > >> to > >> > the accommodations, advantages, and facilities LSAC provides its > >> > non-disabled customers through http://www.lsac.org (hereafter > "lsac.org" > >> > and "the website"). Plaintiffs National Federation of the Blind and > the > >> > National Federation of the Blind of California have members who are > >> > similarly denied full and equal access to such accommodations, > >advantages > >> > and facilities. Lsac.org is currently the only place online where > >> > prospective law students can register for the Law School Admissions > Test > >> > ("LSAT"), apply to law schools, and obtain official LSAT test > >preparation > >> > materials and information. Lsac.org contains multiple access barriers > >> that > >> > make it difficult if not impossible for blind law school applicants > and > >> LSAT > >> > test takers to use the website and to obtain practice materials > without > >> > sighted assistance. LSAC thus excludes the blind, including Ms. > Goraya, > >> > from full and equal access to the accommodations, advantages, > >facilities, > >> > and privileges of lsac.org. > >> > > >> > JURISDICTION > >> > > >> > 2. This is a civil action under California's Disabled Persons > >Act > >> > (Cal. Civ. Code '' 54, et seq.) and the Unruh Civil Rights Act (Cal. > >Civ. > >> > Code '' 51, et seq.) and for declaratory relief. This Court has > >> > jurisdiction over the claims alleged herein pursuant to California > Civil > >> > Code '' 54, et seq. and California Civil Code '' 51, et seq. and > >> California > >> > Code of Civil Procedure section 1060. > >> > > >> > 3. This Court has jurisdiction over LSAC because LSAC is a > >> > corporation authorized to do business in California and LSAC conducts > >> > substantial business in California. LSAC owns, maintains and operates > >its > >> > website, lsac.org, throughout California and in Alameda County. > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > VENUE > >> > > >> > 4. Venue is proper in Alameda County because liability arises > in > >> > part in Alameda County, where the National Federation of the Blind of > >> > California has its headquarters. LSAC has been and is committing the > >> acts > >> > alleged herein in Alameda County, has been and is violating the rights > >of > >> > patrons in Alameda County, and has been and is causing injury to > patrons > >> in > >> > Alameda County. > >> > > >> > 5. Plaintiff Goraya is a California citizen and has > experienced > >> > injury in California as a result of LSAC's inaccessible website and > >> practice > >> > materials. > >> > > >> > PARTIES > >> > > >> > 6. Plaintiff the National Federation of the Blind (hereafter > >> "NFB") > >> > is a national advocacy organization. The NFB, the oldest and largest > >> > national organization of blind persons, is a non-profit corporation > duly > >> > organized under the laws of the District of Columbia with its > principal > >> > place of business in Baltimore, Maryland. It has affiliates in all 50 > >> > states (including California) as well as Washington, D.C. and Puerto > >> Rico. > >> > The vast majority of the approximately 50,000 members are blind > >persons. > >> > The NFB is widely recognized by the public, Congress, executive > >agencies > >> of > >> > government and the courts as a collective and representative voice on > >> behalf > >> > of blind Americans and their families. The purpose of the NFB is to > >> promote > >> > the general welfare of the blind by (1) assisting the blind in their > >> efforts > >> > to integrate themselves into society on terms of equality and (2) > >> removing > >> > barriers and changing social attitudes, stereotypes and mistaken > beliefs > >> > that sighted and blind persons hold concerning the limitations created > >by > >> > blindness resulting in the denial of opportunity to blind persons in > >> > virtually every sphere of life. The NFB and many of its members have > >> long > >> > been actively involved in promoting adaptive technology for the blind, > >so > >> > that blind persons can live and work independently in today's > >> > technology-dependent world. NFB members reside throughout the United > >> > States, including the state of California, and many of its members > would > >> use > >> > the services of lsac.org if this website is made independently usable > by > >> > the blind. > >> > > >> > 7. Plaintiff the National Federation of the Blind of > California > >> > (hereafter "NFB of California") is a state affiliate of the National > >> > Federation of the Blind. NFB of California is a California > corporation > >> and > >> > carries out NFB's objectives at the state level. It has local > chapters > >> > throughout California, including Alameda County, and has its > >headquarters > >> in > >> > Fremont, California, in Alameda County. > >> > > >> > 8. Plaintiff Goraya is a member of the NFB and the NFB of > >> > California. She is blind and has been denied full and equal access to > >> the > >> > accommodations, advantages, facilities and privileges of lsac.org. > >> > > >> > 9. Defendant LSAC, is a non-profit corporation > >> > established to coordinate, facilitate, and enhance the law school > >> admissions > >> > process. LSAC owns, operates and/or maintains the website lsac.com, a > >> > public accommodation. Plaintiffs seek access to the services provided > >by > >> > LSAC in California through lsac.org. > >> > > >> > FACTS > >> > > >> > 10. Lsac.org is owned, controlled and/or operated by LSAC. > >> Lsac.org > >> > is a public accommodation that offers its visitors comprehensive > >services > >> > for applying to law school. The website functions as the official > >> > destination for guiding prospective law school applicants through the > >> > fundamental steps of applying to law school. Among its services, > >> lsac.orgoffers information about the LSAT and law school application > >> process, and > >> > extensive LSAT preparation materials and resources. Lsac.org also > >serves > >> as > >> > the exclusive online means for registering for the LSAT and applying > to > >> > ABA-accredited law schools. > >> > > >> > 11. According to the website, lsac.org's online services enable > >> > prospective law students to do the following, among other things: > >> > > >> > a.. Register for the LSAT > >> > b.. Register for the LSDAS (Law School Data Assembly Service) > >> > c.. Purchase publications and test preparation materials > >> > d.. Have access to electronic applications for all ABA-approved law > >> > schools > >> > e.. Apply online to law schools > >> > f.. Register for law school forums > >> > g.. Have 24-hour file access > >> > 12. In addition to facilitating the LSAT and law school application > >> > processes, a significant portion of the lsac.org website is devoted > to > >> > preparing students to take the LSAT. Among the services offered in > that > >> > regard are online information guides that explain how to prepare for > the > >> > LSAT and free, downloadable sample practice tests and test questions. > >> > Lsac.org also offers for a fee an online LSAT practice test tool and > >the > >> > opportunity to purchase more than 40 official LSAT practice tests. > >> > > >> > 13. While sighted visitors to lsac.org can easily obtain the > benefits > >> and > >> > advantages offered by the website, blind individuals, including Ms. > >> Goraya, > >> > have been and are being denied access to lsac.org due to LSAC's > failure > >> > and refusal to remove access barriers to lsac.org. Specifically, > blind > >> > visitors to the website, including Ms. Goraya, cannot independently > >apply > >> to > >> > law school, register for the LSAT, or obtain in an accessible format > the > >> > LSAT preparation materials and practice tests available through > lsac.org > >> . > >> > > >> > 14. The blind access websites by using keyboards in conjunction > >> with > >> > screen-reading software. This software vocalizes or conveys to a > >> refreshable > >> > Braille display information that appears visually on a computer > screen. > >> > Unless websites are designed to allow for use in this manner, blind > >> persons > >> > are unable to fully access the internet websites and the information, > >> > products and services contained therein. > >> > > >> > 15. There are well-established guidelines for making websites > >> > accessible to the blind. These guidelines have been in place for at > >> least > >> > several years and have been followed successfully by other public > >> > accommodations in making their online services accessible. The Web > >> > Accessibility Initiative (WAI), a project of the World Wide Web > >> Consortium, > >> > which is the leading standards organization for the Web, has developed > >> > guidelines for making information that is reached via the internet > >> > accessible. The federal government has also promulgated accessibility > >> > standards under Section 508 of the Rehabilitation Act. These > guidelines > >> > have long been readily available via the internet so that any public > >> > accommodation could easily secure the necessary information. > >> > > >> > 16. Lsac.org contains a variety of access barriers that prevent > >> free > >> > and full use by blind persons using keyboards and screen reading > >> software. > >> > These barriers include but are not limited to: lack of or improperly > >> > labeled form controls; faulty keyboard navigation; and use of tables > and > >> > charts that are not formatted for accessibility. Form controls allow > >> users > >> > to input data on online forms and applications. These controls must > be > >> > coded and labeled to allow screen-access software to detect and > vocalize > >> the > >> > requested information. Keyboard navigation refers to the ability to > >> > successfully navigate a website using keyboard commands, as opposed to > >> > requiring a mouse as the exclusive means for navigation of the site. > >> > Further, charts and tables must be formatted to work with > screen-access > >> > software. Much of the lsac.org website, and in particular the online > >> law > >> > school application and LSAT registration sections of the website, lack > >> these > >> > fundamental accessibility components. As a result, blind visitors to > >the > >> > website cannot independently use those and other critical features. > >> > > >> > 17. Lsac.org's test preparation materials that are available on > >the > >> > website in Adobe Portable Document (PDF) format, are not properly > >> "tagged." > >> > This means that the headings, paragraphs, tables, image descriptions > >and > >> > form controls are not easily discernable to screen-reading software. > As > >> a > >> > result, these materials are cumbersome, if not impossible, for a blind > >> > visitor to navigate. > >> > > >> > 18. Finally, lsac.org fails to offer LSAT practice tests, > >> available > >> > as part of its test preparation services, in formats accessible to the > >> > blind. While the sighted can easily use the website to obtain more > than > >> 40 > >> > formerly administered LSAT practice tests, the website fails to offer > >the > >> > opportunity to purchase these practice materials in formats accessible > >to > >> > the blind, such as Braille or an accessible electronic format. > >> > > >> > 19. As a result of lsac.org's accessibility barriers, blind law > >> > school applicants, including Ms. Goraya, must go over extraordinary > >> hurdles > >> > to register and prepare for the LSAT and to apply to law school > compared > >> to > >> > their sighted counterparts. After unsuccessfully attempting to use > >> > lsac.org independently to register for the LSAT and fill out her law > >> > school applications, for example, Plaintiff Goraya was forced to > select > >> and > >> > rely upon a reader for over 50 hours simply to read aloud the content > of > >> the > >> > website and complete her law school applications. Moreover, none of > the > >> > LSAT practice materials, which include previously administered > versions > >> of > >> > the test, were available to her in accessible electronic formats. > >> Lsac.org > >> > thus contains numerous access barriers which deny full and equal > access > >> to > >> > Plaintiff, who would otherwise use the accommodations, advantages, and > >> > facilities of lsac.org. > >> > > >> > 20. On December 10, 2008, Plaintiff National Federation of the > >> Blind > >> > notified LSAC of the unlawful accessibility barriers on its website. > >> LSAC > >> > responded by setting up and then canceling a meeting with the NFB. On > >> > January 22, 2009, the NFB notified LSAC that it intended to pursue > legal > >> > action against LSAC for the unlawful barriers on its website. > >> > > >> > FIRST CAUSE OF ACTION > >> > > >> > (Violation of Cal. Civ. Code '' 54, et seq. - the Disabled Persons > Act) > >> > > >> > 21. The allegations contained in the previous paragraphs are > >> > incorporated by reference. > >> > > >> > 22. The Disabled Persons Act ("DPA") requires that individuals > >with > >> > disabilities have "full and equal access, as other members of the > >general > >> > public, to accommodations, advantages, facilities, . . . and other > >places > >> to > >> > which the general public is invited, subject only to the conditions > and > >> > limitations established by law, or state or federal regulation, and > >> > applicable alike to all persons." Cal. Civ. Code 54.1(a)(1). > >> > > >> > 23. Lsac.org, which is owned, operated and/or maintained by > LSAC, > >> is > >> > an > >> > > >> > accommodation, advantage, facility and/or place to which the general > >> public > >> > is invited, as those terms are used in Cal. Civ. Code ' 54.1(a)(1). > >> > > >> > 24. Defendant's conduct alleged herein violates the DPA, > including > >> > Cal. Civ. Code ' 54.1(a)(1), by denying the Plaintiffs full and equal > >> access > >> > to the accommodations, advantages and facilities of lsac.org. > >> > > >> > 25. As a result of Defendant's conduct, the NFB, the NFB of > >> > California, and Ms. Goraya are entitled to injunctive relief requiring > >> > Defendant to make lsac.org accessible to blind individuals, and to > make > >> > the LSAT test practice materials offered to lsac.org patrons > available > >> to > >> > blind people in an accessible format. > >> > > >> > SECOND CAUSE OF ACTION > >> > > >> > (Violation of Cal.Civ. Code '' 51, et seq. - The Unruh Act) > >> > > >> > 26. The allegations contained in the previous paragraphs are > >> > incorporated by reference. > >> > > >> > 27. California's Unruh Act requires that individuals with > >> > disabilities have "full and equal accommodations, advantages, > >facilities, > >> > privileges or services in all business establishments of every kind > >> > whatsoever." Cal. Civ. Code ' 51(b). > >> > > >> > 28. LSAC and Lsac.org are business establishments as that term > is > >> > used in Cal. Civ. Code ' 51(b) and lsac.org is an accommodation, > >> > advantage, facility, privilege and service of LSAC. > >> > > >> > 29. Defendant's conduct alleged herein violates the Unruh Act, > >> > including Cal. Civ. Code ' 51(b), by denying Plaintiffs the full and > >> equal > >> > accommodations, advantages, facilities, privileges or services of LSAC > >> and > >> > lsac.org. > >> > > >> > 30. Defendant violated the Unruh Act intentionally and/or with > >> > deliberate indifference to the likelihood that it was violating the > >> rights > >> > of blind people and/or Defendant's violations were so intuitive or > >> obvious > >> > that noncompliance could not be other than intentional. > >> > > >> > 31. As a result of Defendant's conduct, the NFB, the NFB of > >> > California, and Ms. Goraya are entitled to injunctive relief requiring > >> > Defendant to make lsac.org accessible to blind individuals, and to > make > >> > the LSAT test practice materials offered to lsac.org patrons > available > >> to > >> > blind people in an accessible format. > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > THIRD CAUSE OF ACTION > >> > > >> > (Declaratory Relief, Cal. Civ. Proc. ' 1060 ) > >> > > >> > 32. The allegations contained in the previous paragraphs are > >> > incorporated by reference. > >> > > >> > 33. On information and belief, Defendants contend that they may > >> > lawfully deny Plaintiffs access to their website and its contents. > >> > Plaintiffs contend that lsac.org, which LSAC owns, operates, and/or > >> > controls, must provide blind patrons access to its website and website > >> > contents under California Civil Code '' 54, et seq. and California > Civil > >> > Code '' 51, et seq., which prohibit discrimination against the blind. > >> > > >> > 34. A judicial declaration is necessary and appropriate at this > >> time > >> > in order that each of the parties may know their respective rights and > >> > duties and act accordingly. > >> > > >> > WHEREFORE, Plaintiffs request relief as set forth below. > >> > > >> > RELIEF REQUESTED > >> > > >> > WHEREFORE, Plaintiffs pray for judgment as follows: > >> > > >> > 1. An order enjoining LSAC from violating > California > >> > Civil Code '' 51, et seq. and '' 54, et seq.; > >> > > >> > 2. A declaration that LSAC is owning, maintaining > >> and/or > >> > operating lsac.org in a manner which discriminates against the blind > and > >> > which fails to provide access for persons with disabilities as > required > >> by > >> > law; > >> > > >> > 3. Plaintiffs' reasonable attorneys' fees and costs > >as > >> > authorized by California California Civil Code '' 54, et seq., > >California > >> > Civil Code '' 51, et seq., and pursuant to California Code of Civil > >> > Procedure ' 1021.5. > >> > > >> > 4. Such other and further relief as the Court deems > >> just > >> > and proper. > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > DATED: > >> > DISABILITY RIGHTS ADVOCATES > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> By: > >> > ____________________________ > >> > > >> > > >> > Laurence W. Paradis > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. > >> > > >> > LaBarre Law Offices P.C. > >> > 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 > >> > Denver, Colorado 80222 > >> > 303 504-5979 (voice) > >> > 303 757-3640 (fax) > >> > slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) > >> > www.labarrelaw.com (website) > >> > > >> > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and > >> > privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you > may > >> not > >> > read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this > >> message > >> > in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or > >> > slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. > >> This > >> > message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic > >> > Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. '' 2510-2521. > >> > _______________________________________________ > >> > blindlaw mailing list > >> > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> > blindlaw: > >> > > >> > > >> > >> > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b75205%40gmail.co > m > >> > > >> > > >> _______________________________________________ > >> blindlaw mailing list > >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> blindlaw: > >> > >> > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/bspiry%40comcast > . > n > >> et > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> blindlaw mailing list > >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> blindlaw: > >> > >> > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b75205%40gmail.co > m > >> > >_______________________________________________ > >blindlaw mailing list > >blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >blindlaw: > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/bspiry%40comcast > . > n > >et > > >_______________________________________________ > >blindlaw mailing list > >blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >blindlaw: > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail > .com > > > >_______________________________________________ > >blindlaw mailing list > >blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie%40mpmail.ne > t > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mikefry79%40gmail.com > From roddj12 at hotmail.com Sat Mar 14 18:23:47 2009 From: roddj12 at hotmail.com (Rod Alcidonis) Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 14:23:47 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target References: <549FC55C53E54BA5814FA71C231CE71F@StevePC><489BACB231A24B1494701FE7E81396B8@StevePC> <3C355AFB1ACB43EEBDBD9356D3EFBF38@StevePC> Message-ID: If damages are not awarded as a remedy at law, the next option would be to grant some equitable relief like an injunction. No court will ask Target to shut down its website until it make it accessible to the blind. This would be considered economic waste and against the public interest if millions of people are forced to stop shopping on line. In the law's eyes, what the plaintiffs really want is for their civil rights not to be violated. If one accept to go ahead and violate them, the least that the law can afford to those plaintiffs is money. The court knows that money is not primarily what the plaintiffs are seeking, but there must be a way for the defendant to answer to society for its wrong doing. Here, it was by making the defendant compensate the plaintiffs for the harm that it caused, I.E, by making the defendant pay for violating the plaintiffs' civil rights. Keep saying the following outloud you will get it: "the damages was for the violation of the plaintiffs' civil rights, not for any physical pain or frustration in not using the Target website." For further edification of your understanding: Once the court can calculate a dollar amount (hence the amount of the damages award), equitable relief is not necessary and such prayers will not be entertained in a court of equity. Here, the court was able to come up with a dollar amount for the violation of the plaintiffs' civil rights. Steve, unless you accept to place your emotions aside and exercise a little willingness to learn, even for one day, your reactions will continue to come across as being very uninformed. I don't think you want that. That's why some of us are trying to help you here while most have resolved to ignoring your comments. If you continue to persist along the same line in light of the effort that's been made to help you out, I will have to conclude in a very respectable way that you are just an ignorant man. I am sorry. Take care. Rod Alcidonis Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009. Roger Williams University School of Law 10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 Bristol, RI 02809 Cell: 718-704-4651 Home: 401-824-8685 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. Deeley" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 12:41 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target I understand that, however, I just do not agree with the entire concept of awarding damages in this sort of case. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rod Alcidonis" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 9:27 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target Steve: The effort here was to try to help your understanding and educate your logic, not to justify the existence of the legal system. I am afraid that you are still not willing to accept that "damage" as used in the law is a term of art. Meaning, It has a specific legal definition different from normal use. It is different when you say that "my bicycle was damaged, for example. It is a legal recognition that certain harms should be compensated. In this case, the plaintiffs are being paid not for the fact that they were physically damage in the normal use of the term, but for violations of their civil rights. See Denis' e-mail for what the harm was. In the bicycle example, if someone were to break your bicycle, you can receive "damages" as the cost of repair, or replacement of the bicycle. By the way, you are also entitled to enforce your civil rights if you so choose and receive damages. Not every violations entitle someone to such remedy. When a person cannot get damages under the law, that person has the option of seeking equitable relief in the form of an injunction or restraining order against the defendant. In this case damages was available as a remedy so the plaintiffs are getting money. They are getting paid because their civil rights were violated. I hope this further helps inform your comments. Take care. Rod Alcidonis Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009. Roger Williams University School of Law 10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 Bristol, RI 02809 Cell: 718-704-4651 Home: 401-824-8685 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. Deeley" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 9:22 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target That is a lawyer talking who makes his living in rediculous situations like this one. Again, you show me how an individual was damaged and out $4,000.00. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott C. LaBarre" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 5:38 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target Violation of civil rights has long been recognized as a form of compensible legal damage as well it should be. Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. LaBarre Law Offices P.C. 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 Denver, Colorado 80222 303 504-5979 (voice) 303 757-3640 (fax) slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) www.labarrelaw.com (website) CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. Deeley" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 2:31 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > This is ridiculous! How were these people damaged? > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mehgan Sidhu" > To: > Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 3:20 PM > Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > >> To answer the recent questions posted about the Target case, the final >> settlement hearing took place on March 9th. I understand from our >> counsel in California, Larry Paradis of DRA and Josh Konecky, that there >> were no objectors and the Judge was pleased with the resolution of the >> case. The settlement is not fully "final" until the time for any >> appeals has run - which is about 30 days. Given there were no objectors, >> it is highly unlikely that any appeals will be filed. The judge has not >> yet made a ruling on attorneys fees, but that will not hold up >> enforcement of the settlement. >> >> >> >> As for disbursements, assuming there are no appeals, the claims >> administer has 45 days from the final approval date to disburse funds to >> claimants. I do not know the final tally of approved claimants, though I >> think there were several hundred. I will pass that information along >> when I have it. >> >> >> >> We will now be working on enforcing the settlement commitments that >> Target made with respect to the accessibility of the website. >> >> >> Mehgan Sidhu >> Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP >> 120 East Baltimore Street, Suite 1700 >> Baltimore, Maryland 21202 >> 410-962-1030 x1324 >> 410-385-0869 (fax) >> ms at browngold.com >> www.browngold.com >> >> Confidentiality Notice >> >> This e-mail may contain confidential information that may also be legally >> privileged and that is intended only for the use of the addressee(s) >> named above. If you are not the intended recipient or an authorized >> agent of the recipient, please be advised that any dissemination or >> copying of this e-mail, or taking of any action in reliance on the >> information contained herein, is strictly prohibited. If you have >> received this e-mail in error, please notify me immediately by use of the >> reply button, and then delete the e-mail from your system. Thank you! >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release Date: 03/13/09 > 05:59:00 > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/slabarre%40labarrelaw.com > _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release Date: 03/13/09 05:59:00 _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/2001 - Release Date: 03/14/09 06:54:00 _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail.com From roddj12 at hotmail.com Sat Mar 14 18:24:23 2009 From: roddj12 at hotmail.com (Rod Alcidonis) Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 14:24:23 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. lsac complaint References: <49bb3c67.8905be0a.68cc.5e82SMTPIN_ADDED@mx.google.com><01b801c9a463$f3c9b550$7100a8c0@computer> <8c58e54a0903141001w4710645v5f47c25aa0300a1f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: But it will not be followed by schools, Mike. Rod Alcidonis Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009. Roger Williams University School of Law 10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 Bristol, RI 02809 Cell: 718-704-4651 Home: 401-824-8685 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Fry" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 1:01 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. lsac complaint >I did not know that a new policy regarding evalution of multiple LSAT >scores > had been implemented. I agree with Angie and Craig that its better. > > On Fri, Mar 13, 2009 at 10:15 PM, Craig Borne wrote: > >> Angie, >> I wonder how many ABA accredited schools will follow the ABA's advice. I >> really believe this is a better way to go, though neither the ABA or law >> schools in general have solicited my advice. Shame on them. >> Craig >> >> >> Craig Borne >> Baltimore, Maryland >> "A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial >> appearance of being right, and raises at first a formidable outcry in >> defense of custom." --Thomas Paine, Common Sense >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf Of Angie Matney >> Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 12:55 AM >> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. lsac complaint >> >> Now that the ABA advises schools to only consider the highest score, it >> would seem to be less likely that a low first score would be considered >> irreparable harm. >> >> Angie >> >> On Fri, 13 Mar 2009 02:31:57 -0400, Rod Alcidonis wrote: >> >> >Well, academically speaking, the law suit could have prayed for a >> Temporary >> >> >Restraining Order, or a preliminary Injunction against the LSAC for >> >folks >> >like you. Basically enjoined the LSAC from administering the exam until >> they >> >make the changes. The only difficulty with that I think justifies the >> reason >> >they probably did not pray for such a relief is that such a measure >> >would >> >cause too much harm to the public, I.E, the thousands of law students >> >and >> >schools who rely on the exam to make admissions decisions. Such an order >> >while it would have forced the LSAC to make the changes much faster, it >> >would have unreasonably halted the system for some times. If it were a >> class >> >action with thousands of members, it probably would have been easier to >> >argue, I think. Whether not passing an exam for the first time is >> considered >> >irreparable harm is another question -- you can still make the argument >> >under these circumstances. >> >> >Rod Alcidonis >> >Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009. >> >Roger Williams University School of Law >> >10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 >> >Bristol, RI 02809 >> >Cell: 718-704-4651 >> >Home: 401-824-8685 >> >> >----- Original Message ----- >> >From: "Bill Spiry" >> >To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >> >Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2009 9:52 PM >> >Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. lsac complaint >> >> >> >I understand. What might be done to getLSAC to authorize use of this >> >material as an accessible alternative to what they have to offer? I know >> NFB >> >is sueing them, but in the mean time that leaves folks like me who don't >> >have the Adobe skills you have, and facing the LSAT soon without >> accessible >> >matter. Any ideas or suggestions? >> >> >Thanks. >> >-----Original Message----- >> >From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >> >On >> >Behalf Of James Pepper >> >Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 10:43 AM >> >To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >> >Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. lsac complaint >> >> >Well Bill the content is copyrighted by LSAC so I am not sure I can send >> >this to you. Perhaps some on this list can give that advice. I laid it >> >out >> >properly. >> >> >James >> >> >On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 9:05 AM, Bill Spiry wrote: >> >> >> I would appreciate receiving this as well. Thanks. >> >> bspiry at comcast.net >> >> >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >> On >> >> Behalf Of James Pepper >> >> Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 1:46 AM >> >> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >> >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. lsac complaint >> >> >> >> Scott: I laid out the first section of the LSAT to be accessible and >> >> I >> >> can >> >> send you the files if you would like to see it. Also I made the form >> that >> >> they use accessible so the blind can fill out the test without >> assistance. >> >> This works with JAWS and Window Eyes and a combination of Adobe's Read >> out >> >> Loud and Microsoft Narrator. My process works and if you need >> references >> >> at >> >> NFB, AFB and the AAPD I can send them to you. >> >> >> >> It took a while to figure out how they made thier pdfs and I know >> >> where >> >> they >> >> are making their mistakes. I can correct this problem. These PDFs are >> >made >> >> to work natively with JAWS and Adobe Reader and the other screen >> >> readers >> >> without making any adjustments. They work with the default settings >> >> in >> >> Adobe Reader. >> >> >> >> Also the forms can be digitally signed and saved and all that fancy >> stuff >> >> that you expect with Adobe Acrobat Professional can be done with >> >> Adobe Reader, versions 8 or 9 which is the free download from >> >> Adobe.com. >> >> So >> >> we can make the LSAT accessible to anyone with a PC running Windows XP >> Or >> >> VIsta without any change of settings. This means the PC can be there >> for >> >> the sighted and the blind, with equal access for all. >> >> >> >> Also since I labeled everything, it will be a lot quicker for you to >> fill >> >> out this test! >> >> >> >> Sincerely, >> >> >> >> James G. Pepper >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 4:32 PM, Scott C. LaBarre >> >> wrote: >> >> >> >> > Below I am sharing the complaint that we filed today in California >> >Court. >> >> > ************** >> >> > LaurEnce W. paradis (California Bar No. 122336) >> >> > >> >> > Anna levine (California Bar No. 227881) >> >> > >> >> > Disability Rights Advocates >> >> > >> >> > 2001 Center Street, Third Floor >> >> > >> >> > Berkeley, California 94704 >> >> > >> >> > Telephone: (510) 665-8644 >> >> > >> >> > Facsimile: (510) 665-8511 >> >> > >> >> > TTY: (510) 665-8716 >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > SCOTT LABARRE (to seek pro hac vice admission) >> >> > >> >> > LABARRE LAW OFFICES, P.C. >> >> > >> >> > 1660 S. Albion Street, Ste 918 >> >> > >> >> > Denver, Colo 80222 >> >> > >> >> > Telephone: (303) 504-5979 >> >> > >> >> > Fax: (303) 757-3640 >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > DANIEL F. GOLDSTEIN (to seek pro hac vice admission) >> >> > >> >> > MEHGAN Sidhu (to seek pro hac vice admission) >> >> > >> >> > Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP >> >> > >> >> > 120 E. Baltimore St., Suite 1700 >> >> > >> >> > Baltimore, MD 21202 >> >> > >> >> > Telephone: (410) 962-1030 >> >> > >> >> > Fax: (410) 385-0869 >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > SUPERIOR COURT OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA >> >> > COUNTY OF ALAMEDA >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > National Federation of the Blind, the National Federation of >> >> > the >> >> Blind >> >> > of CALIFORNIA, and DEEPA GORAYA, >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > Plaintiffs, >> >> > >> >> > v. >> >> > >> >> > LAW SCHOOL ADMISSION COUNCIL, INC., >> >> > >> >> > Defendant. >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > Case No.: >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > COMPLAINT FOR INJUNCTIVE AND DECLARATORY RELIEF FOR VIOLATIONS >> >> > OF >> >> THE >> >> > CALIFORNIA DISABLED PERSONS ACT AND UNRUH CIVIL RIGHTS ACT >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > INTRODUCTION >> >> > >> >> > Plaintiffs complain of Defendant and allege herein as follows: >> >> > >> >> > 1. This action, brought by the National Federation of the >> Blind, >> >> > the National Federation of the Blind of California, and Deepa >> >> > Goraya, >> >> seeks >> >> > to put an end to civil rights violations committed by defendant Law >> >> School >> >> > Admissions Council (hereafter "LSAC") against blind persons seeking >> >> > to >> >> take >> >> > the LSAT exam and apply to law schools. Plaintiff Deepa Goraya, a >> blind >> >> law >> >> > school applicant in California, has been and is being denied equal >> >access >> >> to >> >> > the accommodations, advantages, and facilities LSAC provides its >> >> > non-disabled customers through http://www.lsac.org (hereafter >> "lsac.org" >> >> > and "the website"). Plaintiffs National Federation of the Blind and >> the >> >> > National Federation of the Blind of California have members who are >> >> > similarly denied full and equal access to such accommodations, >> >advantages >> >> > and facilities. Lsac.org is currently the only place online where >> >> > prospective law students can register for the Law School Admissions >> Test >> >> > ("LSAT"), apply to law schools, and obtain official LSAT test >> >preparation >> >> > materials and information. Lsac.org contains multiple access >> >> > barriers >> >> that >> >> > make it difficult if not impossible for blind law school applicants >> and >> >> LSAT >> >> > test takers to use the website and to obtain practice materials >> without >> >> > sighted assistance. LSAC thus excludes the blind, including Ms. >> Goraya, >> >> > from full and equal access to the accommodations, advantages, >> >facilities, >> >> > and privileges of lsac.org. >> >> > >> >> > JURISDICTION >> >> > >> >> > 2. This is a civil action under California's Disabled >> >> > Persons >> >Act >> >> > (Cal. Civ. Code '' 54, et seq.) and the Unruh Civil Rights Act (Cal. >> >Civ. >> >> > Code '' 51, et seq.) and for declaratory relief. This Court has >> >> > jurisdiction over the claims alleged herein pursuant to California >> Civil >> >> > Code '' 54, et seq. and California Civil Code '' 51, et seq. and >> >> California >> >> > Code of Civil Procedure section 1060. >> >> > >> >> > 3. This Court has jurisdiction over LSAC because LSAC is a >> >> > corporation authorized to do business in California and LSAC >> >> > conducts >> >> > substantial business in California. LSAC owns, maintains and >> >> > operates >> >its >> >> > website, lsac.org, throughout California and in Alameda County. >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > VENUE >> >> > >> >> > 4. Venue is proper in Alameda County because liability >> >> > arises >> in >> >> > part in Alameda County, where the National Federation of the Blind >> >> > of >> >> > California has its headquarters. LSAC has been and is committing >> >> > the >> >> acts >> >> > alleged herein in Alameda County, has been and is violating the >> >> > rights >> >of >> >> > patrons in Alameda County, and has been and is causing injury to >> patrons >> >> in >> >> > Alameda County. >> >> > >> >> > 5. Plaintiff Goraya is a California citizen and has >> experienced >> >> > injury in California as a result of LSAC's inaccessible website and >> >> practice >> >> > materials. >> >> > >> >> > PARTIES >> >> > >> >> > 6. Plaintiff the National Federation of the Blind (hereafter >> >> "NFB") >> >> > is a national advocacy organization. The NFB, the oldest and >> >> > largest >> >> > national organization of blind persons, is a non-profit corporation >> duly >> >> > organized under the laws of the District of Columbia with its >> principal >> >> > place of business in Baltimore, Maryland. It has affiliates in all >> >> > 50 >> >> > states (including California) as well as Washington, D.C. and Puerto >> >> Rico. >> >> > The vast majority of the approximately 50,000 members are blind >> >persons. >> >> > The NFB is widely recognized by the public, Congress, executive >> >agencies >> >> of >> >> > government and the courts as a collective and representative voice >> >> > on >> >> behalf >> >> > of blind Americans and their families. The purpose of the NFB is to >> >> promote >> >> > the general welfare of the blind by (1) assisting the blind in their >> >> efforts >> >> > to integrate themselves into society on terms of equality and (2) >> >> removing >> >> > barriers and changing social attitudes, stereotypes and mistaken >> beliefs >> >> > that sighted and blind persons hold concerning the limitations >> >> > created >> >by >> >> > blindness resulting in the denial of opportunity to blind persons in >> >> > virtually every sphere of life. The NFB and many of its members >> >> > have >> >> long >> >> > been actively involved in promoting adaptive technology for the >> >> > blind, >> >so >> >> > that blind persons can live and work independently in today's >> >> > technology-dependent world. NFB members reside throughout the >> >> > United >> >> > States, including the state of California, and many of its members >> would >> >> use >> >> > the services of lsac.org if this website is made independently >> >> > usable >> by >> >> > the blind. >> >> > >> >> > 7. Plaintiff the National Federation of the Blind of >> California >> >> > (hereafter "NFB of California") is a state affiliate of the National >> >> > Federation of the Blind. NFB of California is a California >> corporation >> >> and >> >> > carries out NFB's objectives at the state level. It has local >> chapters >> >> > throughout California, including Alameda County, and has its >> >headquarters >> >> in >> >> > Fremont, California, in Alameda County. >> >> > >> >> > 8. Plaintiff Goraya is a member of the NFB and the NFB of >> >> > California. She is blind and has been denied full and equal access >> >> > to >> >> the >> >> > accommodations, advantages, facilities and privileges of lsac.org. >> >> > >> >> > 9. Defendant LSAC, is a non-profit corporation >> >> > established to coordinate, facilitate, and enhance the law school >> >> admissions >> >> > process. LSAC owns, operates and/or maintains the website lsac.com, >> >> > a >> >> > public accommodation. Plaintiffs seek access to the services >> >> > provided >> >by >> >> > LSAC in California through lsac.org. >> >> > >> >> > FACTS >> >> > >> >> > 10. Lsac.org is owned, controlled and/or operated by LSAC. >> >> Lsac.org >> >> > is a public accommodation that offers its visitors comprehensive >> >services >> >> > for applying to law school. The website functions as the official >> >> > destination for guiding prospective law school applicants through >> >> > the >> >> > fundamental steps of applying to law school. Among its services, >> >> lsac.orgoffers information about the LSAT and law school application >> >> process, and >> >> > extensive LSAT preparation materials and resources. Lsac.org also >> >serves >> >> as >> >> > the exclusive online means for registering for the LSAT and applying >> to >> >> > ABA-accredited law schools. >> >> > >> >> > 11. According to the website, lsac.org's online services >> >> > enable >> >> > prospective law students to do the following, among other things: >> >> > >> >> > a.. Register for the LSAT >> >> > b.. Register for the LSDAS (Law School Data Assembly Service) >> >> > c.. Purchase publications and test preparation materials >> >> > d.. Have access to electronic applications for all ABA-approved law >> >> > schools >> >> > e.. Apply online to law schools >> >> > f.. Register for law school forums >> >> > g.. Have 24-hour file access >> >> > 12. In addition to facilitating the LSAT and law school application >> >> > processes, a significant portion of the lsac.org website is devoted >> to >> >> > preparing students to take the LSAT. Among the services offered in >> that >> >> > regard are online information guides that explain how to prepare for >> the >> >> > LSAT and free, downloadable sample practice tests and test >> >> > questions. >> >> > Lsac.org also offers for a fee an online LSAT practice test tool >> >> > and >> >the >> >> > opportunity to purchase more than 40 official LSAT practice tests. >> >> > >> >> > 13. While sighted visitors to lsac.org can easily obtain the >> benefits >> >> and >> >> > advantages offered by the website, blind individuals, including Ms. >> >> Goraya, >> >> > have been and are being denied access to lsac.org due to LSAC's >> failure >> >> > and refusal to remove access barriers to lsac.org. Specifically, >> blind >> >> > visitors to the website, including Ms. Goraya, cannot independently >> >apply >> >> to >> >> > law school, register for the LSAT, or obtain in an accessible format >> the >> >> > LSAT preparation materials and practice tests available through >> lsac.org >> >> . >> >> > >> >> > 14. The blind access websites by using keyboards in >> >> > conjunction >> >> with >> >> > screen-reading software. This software vocalizes or conveys to a >> >> refreshable >> >> > Braille display information that appears visually on a computer >> screen. >> >> > Unless websites are designed to allow for use in this manner, blind >> >> persons >> >> > are unable to fully access the internet websites and the >> >> > information, >> >> > products and services contained therein. >> >> > >> >> > 15. There are well-established guidelines for making websites >> >> > accessible to the blind. These guidelines have been in place for at >> >> least >> >> > several years and have been followed successfully by other public >> >> > accommodations in making their online services accessible. The Web >> >> > Accessibility Initiative (WAI), a project of the World Wide Web >> >> Consortium, >> >> > which is the leading standards organization for the Web, has >> >> > developed >> >> > guidelines for making information that is reached via the internet >> >> > accessible. The federal government has also promulgated >> >> > accessibility >> >> > standards under Section 508 of the Rehabilitation Act. These >> guidelines >> >> > have long been readily available via the internet so that any public >> >> > accommodation could easily secure the necessary information. >> >> > >> >> > 16. Lsac.org contains a variety of access barriers that >> >> > prevent >> >> free >> >> > and full use by blind persons using keyboards and screen reading >> >> software. >> >> > These barriers include but are not limited to: lack of or >> >> > improperly >> >> > labeled form controls; faulty keyboard navigation; and use of tables >> and >> >> > charts that are not formatted for accessibility. Form controls >> >> > allow >> >> users >> >> > to input data on online forms and applications. These controls must >> be >> >> > coded and labeled to allow screen-access software to detect and >> vocalize >> >> the >> >> > requested information. Keyboard navigation refers to the ability to >> >> > successfully navigate a website using keyboard commands, as opposed >> >> > to >> >> > requiring a mouse as the exclusive means for navigation of the site. >> >> > Further, charts and tables must be formatted to work with >> screen-access >> >> > software. Much of the lsac.org website, and in particular the >> >> > online >> >> law >> >> > school application and LSAT registration sections of the website, >> >> > lack >> >> these >> >> > fundamental accessibility components. As a result, blind visitors >> >> > to >> >the >> >> > website cannot independently use those and other critical features. >> >> > >> >> > 17. Lsac.org's test preparation materials that are available >> >> > on >> >the >> >> > website in Adobe Portable Document (PDF) format, are not properly >> >> "tagged." >> >> > This means that the headings, paragraphs, tables, image >> >> > descriptions >> >and >> >> > form controls are not easily discernable to screen-reading software. >> As >> >> a >> >> > result, these materials are cumbersome, if not impossible, for a >> >> > blind >> >> > visitor to navigate. >> >> > >> >> > 18. Finally, lsac.org fails to offer LSAT practice tests, >> >> available >> >> > as part of its test preparation services, in formats accessible to >> >> > the >> >> > blind. While the sighted can easily use the website to obtain more >> than >> >> 40 >> >> > formerly administered LSAT practice tests, the website fails to >> >> > offer >> >the >> >> > opportunity to purchase these practice materials in formats >> >> > accessible >> >to >> >> > the blind, such as Braille or an accessible electronic format. >> >> > >> >> > 19. As a result of lsac.org's accessibility barriers, blind >> >> > law >> >> > school applicants, including Ms. Goraya, must go over extraordinary >> >> hurdles >> >> > to register and prepare for the LSAT and to apply to law school >> compared >> >> to >> >> > their sighted counterparts. After unsuccessfully attempting to use >> >> > lsac.org independently to register for the LSAT and fill out her law >> >> > school applications, for example, Plaintiff Goraya was forced to >> select >> >> and >> >> > rely upon a reader for over 50 hours simply to read aloud the >> >> > content >> of >> >> the >> >> > website and complete her law school applications. Moreover, none of >> the >> >> > LSAT practice materials, which include previously administered >> versions >> >> of >> >> > the test, were available to her in accessible electronic formats. >> >> Lsac.org >> >> > thus contains numerous access barriers which deny full and equal >> access >> >> to >> >> > Plaintiff, who would otherwise use the accommodations, advantages, >> >> > and >> >> > facilities of lsac.org. >> >> > >> >> > 20. On December 10, 2008, Plaintiff National Federation of the >> >> Blind >> >> > notified LSAC of the unlawful accessibility barriers on its website. >> >> LSAC >> >> > responded by setting up and then canceling a meeting with the NFB. >> >> > On >> >> > January 22, 2009, the NFB notified LSAC that it intended to pursue >> legal >> >> > action against LSAC for the unlawful barriers on its website. >> >> > >> >> > FIRST CAUSE OF ACTION >> >> > >> >> > (Violation of Cal. Civ. Code '' 54, et seq. - the Disabled Persons >> Act) >> >> > >> >> > 21. The allegations contained in the previous paragraphs are >> >> > incorporated by reference. >> >> > >> >> > 22. The Disabled Persons Act ("DPA") requires that individuals >> >with >> >> > disabilities have "full and equal access, as other members of the >> >general >> >> > public, to accommodations, advantages, facilities, . . . and other >> >places >> >> to >> >> > which the general public is invited, subject only to the conditions >> and >> >> > limitations established by law, or state or federal regulation, and >> >> > applicable alike to all persons." Cal. Civ. Code 54.1(a)(1). >> >> > >> >> > 23. Lsac.org, which is owned, operated and/or maintained by >> LSAC, >> >> is >> >> > an >> >> > >> >> > accommodation, advantage, facility and/or place to which the general >> >> public >> >> > is invited, as those terms are used in Cal. Civ. Code ' 54.1(a)(1). >> >> > >> >> > 24. Defendant's conduct alleged herein violates the DPA, >> including >> >> > Cal. Civ. Code ' 54.1(a)(1), by denying the Plaintiffs full and >> >> > equal >> >> access >> >> > to the accommodations, advantages and facilities of lsac.org. >> >> > >> >> > 25. As a result of Defendant's conduct, the NFB, the NFB of >> >> > California, and Ms. Goraya are entitled to injunctive relief >> >> > requiring >> >> > Defendant to make lsac.org accessible to blind individuals, and to >> make >> >> > the LSAT test practice materials offered to lsac.org patrons >> available >> >> to >> >> > blind people in an accessible format. >> >> > >> >> > SECOND CAUSE OF ACTION >> >> > >> >> > (Violation of Cal.Civ. Code '' 51, et seq. - The Unruh Act) >> >> > >> >> > 26. The allegations contained in the previous paragraphs are >> >> > incorporated by reference. >> >> > >> >> > 27. California's Unruh Act requires that individuals with >> >> > disabilities have "full and equal accommodations, advantages, >> >facilities, >> >> > privileges or services in all business establishments of every kind >> >> > whatsoever." Cal. Civ. Code ' 51(b). >> >> > >> >> > 28. LSAC and Lsac.org are business establishments as that term >> is >> >> > used in Cal. Civ. Code ' 51(b) and lsac.org is an accommodation, >> >> > advantage, facility, privilege and service of LSAC. >> >> > >> >> > 29. Defendant's conduct alleged herein violates the Unruh Act, >> >> > including Cal. Civ. Code ' 51(b), by denying Plaintiffs the full and >> >> equal >> >> > accommodations, advantages, facilities, privileges or services of >> >> > LSAC >> >> and >> >> > lsac.org. >> >> > >> >> > 30. Defendant violated the Unruh Act intentionally and/or with >> >> > deliberate indifference to the likelihood that it was violating the >> >> rights >> >> > of blind people and/or Defendant's violations were so intuitive or >> >> obvious >> >> > that noncompliance could not be other than intentional. >> >> > >> >> > 31. As a result of Defendant's conduct, the NFB, the NFB of >> >> > California, and Ms. Goraya are entitled to injunctive relief >> >> > requiring >> >> > Defendant to make lsac.org accessible to blind individuals, and to >> make >> >> > the LSAT test practice materials offered to lsac.org patrons >> available >> >> to >> >> > blind people in an accessible format. >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > THIRD CAUSE OF ACTION >> >> > >> >> > (Declaratory Relief, Cal. Civ. Proc. ' 1060 ) >> >> > >> >> > 32. The allegations contained in the previous paragraphs are >> >> > incorporated by reference. >> >> > >> >> > 33. On information and belief, Defendants contend that they >> >> > may >> >> > lawfully deny Plaintiffs access to their website and its contents. >> >> > Plaintiffs contend that lsac.org, which LSAC owns, operates, and/or >> >> > controls, must provide blind patrons access to its website and >> >> > website >> >> > contents under California Civil Code '' 54, et seq. and California >> Civil >> >> > Code '' 51, et seq., which prohibit discrimination against the >> >> > blind. >> >> > >> >> > 34. A judicial declaration is necessary and appropriate at >> >> > this >> >> time >> >> > in order that each of the parties may know their respective rights >> >> > and >> >> > duties and act accordingly. >> >> > >> >> > WHEREFORE, Plaintiffs request relief as set forth below. >> >> > >> >> > RELIEF REQUESTED >> >> > >> >> > WHEREFORE, Plaintiffs pray for judgment as follows: >> >> > >> >> > 1. An order enjoining LSAC from violating >> California >> >> > Civil Code '' 51, et seq. and '' 54, et seq.; >> >> > >> >> > 2. A declaration that LSAC is owning, maintaining >> >> and/or >> >> > operating lsac.org in a manner which discriminates against the blind >> and >> >> > which fails to provide access for persons with disabilities as >> required >> >> by >> >> > law; >> >> > >> >> > 3. Plaintiffs' reasonable attorneys' fees and >> >> > costs >> >as >> >> > authorized by California California Civil Code '' 54, et seq., >> >California >> >> > Civil Code '' 51, et seq., and pursuant to California Code of Civil >> >> > Procedure ' 1021.5. >> >> > >> >> > 4. Such other and further relief as the Court >> >> > deems >> >> just >> >> > and proper. >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > DATED: >> >> > DISABILITY RIGHTS ADVOCATES >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> By: >> >> > ____________________________ >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > Laurence W. Paradis >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. >> >> > >> >> > LaBarre Law Offices P.C. >> >> > 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 >> >> > Denver, Colorado 80222 >> >> > 303 504-5979 (voice) >> >> > 303 757-3640 (fax) >> >> > slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) >> >> > www.labarrelaw.com (website) >> >> > >> >> > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and >> >> > privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you >> may >> >> not >> >> > read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this >> >> message >> >> > in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or >> >> > slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. >> >> This >> >> > message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic >> >> > Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. '' 2510-2521. >> >> > _______________________________________________ >> >> > blindlaw mailing list >> >> > blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> >> > for >> >> > blindlaw: >> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b75205%40gmail.co >> m >> >> > >> >> > >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> blindlaw mailing list >> >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> >> blindlaw: >> >> >> >> >> > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/bspiry%40comcast >> . >> n >> >> et >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> blindlaw mailing list >> >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> >> blindlaw: >> >> >> >> >> > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b75205%40gmail.co >> m >> >> >> >_______________________________________________ >> >blindlaw mailing list >> >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> >blindlaw: >> > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/bspiry%40comcast >> . >> n >> >et >> >> >_______________________________________________ >> >blindlaw mailing list >> >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> >blindlaw: >> > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail >> .com >> >> >> >_______________________________________________ >> >blindlaw mailing list >> >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie%40mpmail.ne >> t >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mikefry79%40gmail.com >> > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail.com > From angie.matney at gmail.com Sat Mar 14 18:36:32 2009 From: angie.matney at gmail.com (Angie Matney) Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 14:36:32 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. lsac complaint Message-ID: Craig, My school says they do. I think a lot of schools say so on paper, but the schools still get to see all of an applicant's scores. Of course, the new system means they can report higher median scores. Angie Sent from my Nokia N82. -original message- Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. lsac complaint From: "Craig Borne" Date: 03/14/2009 2:25 AM Angie, I wonder how many ABA accredited schools will follow the ABA's advice. I really believe this is a better way to go, though neither the ABA or law schools in general have solicited my advice. Shame on them. Craig Craig Borne Baltimore, Maryland "A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial appearance of being right, and raises at first a formidable outcry in defense of custom." --Thomas Paine, Common Sense -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Angie Matney Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 12:55 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. lsac complaint Now that the ABA advises schools to only consider the highest score, it would seem to be less likely that a low first score would be considered irreparable harm. Angie On Fri, 13 Mar 2009 02:31:57 -0400, Rod Alcidonis wrote: >Well, academically speaking, the law suit could have prayed for a Temporary >Restraining Order, or a preliminary Injunction against the LSAC for folks >like you. Basically enjoined the LSAC from administering the exam until they >make the changes. The only difficulty with that I think justifies the reason >they probably did not pray for such a relief is that such a measure would >cause too much harm to the public, I.E, the thousands of law students and >schools who rely on the exam to make admissions decisions. Such an order >while it would have forced the LSAC to make the changes much faster, it >would have unreasonably halted the system for some times. If it were a class >action with thousands of members, it probably would have been easier to >argue, I think. Whether not passing an exam for the first time is considered >irreparable harm is another question -- you can still make the argument >under these circumstances. >Rod Alcidonis >Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009. >Roger Williams University School of Law >10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 >Bristol, RI 02809 >Cell: 718-704-4651 >Home: 401-824-8685 >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Bill Spiry" >To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2009 9:52 PM >Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. lsac complaint >I understand. What might be done to getLSAC to authorize use of this >material as an accessible alternative to what they have to offer? I know NFB >is sueing them, but in the mean time that leaves folks like me who don't >have the Adobe skills you have, and facing the LSAT soon without accessible >matter. Any ideas or suggestions? >Thanks. >-----Original Message----- >From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >Behalf Of James Pepper >Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 10:43 AM >To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. lsac complaint >Well Bill the content is copyrighted by LSAC so I am not sure I can send >this to you. Perhaps some on this list can give that advice. I laid it out >properly. >James >On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 9:05 AM, Bill Spiry wrote: >> I would appreciate receiving this as well. Thanks. >> bspiry at comcast.net >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf Of James Pepper >> Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 1:46 AM >> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. lsac complaint >> >> Scott: I laid out the first section of the LSAT to be accessible and I >> can >> send you the files if you would like to see it. Also I made the form that >> they use accessible so the blind can fill out the test without assistance. >> This works with JAWS and Window Eyes and a combination of Adobe's Read out >> Loud and Microsoft Narrator. My process works and if you need references >> at >> NFB, AFB and the AAPD I can send them to you. >> >> It took a while to figure out how they made thier pdfs and I know where >> they >> are making their mistakes. I can correct this problem. These PDFs are >made >> to work natively with JAWS and Adobe Reader and the other screen readers >> without making any adjustments. They work with the default settings in >> Adobe Reader. >> >> Also the forms can be digitally signed and saved and all that fancy stuff >> that you expect with Adobe Acrobat Professional can be done with >> Adobe Reader, versions 8 or 9 which is the free download from Adobe.com. >> So >> we can make the LSAT accessible to anyone with a PC running Windows XP Or >> VIsta without any change of settings. This means the PC can be there for >> the sighted and the blind, with equal access for all. >> >> Also since I labeled everything, it will be a lot quicker for you to fill >> out this test! >> >> Sincerely, >> >> James G. Pepper >> >> >> >> On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 4:32 PM, Scott C. LaBarre >> wrote: >> >> > Below I am sharing the complaint that we filed today in California >Court. >> > ************** >> > LaurEnce W. paradis (California Bar No. 122336) >> > >> > Anna levine (California Bar No. 227881) >> > >> > Disability Rights Advocates >> > >> > 2001 Center Street, Third Floor >> > >> > Berkeley, California 94704 >> > >> > Telephone: (510) 665-8644 >> > >> > Facsimile: (510) 665-8511 >> > >> > TTY: (510) 665-8716 >> > >> > >> > >> > SCOTT LABARRE (to seek pro hac vice admission) >> > >> > LABARRE LAW OFFICES, P.C. >> > >> > 1660 S. Albion Street, Ste 918 >> > >> > Denver, Colo 80222 >> > >> > Telephone: (303) 504-5979 >> > >> > Fax: (303) 757-3640 >> > >> > >> > >> > DANIEL F. GOLDSTEIN (to seek pro hac vice admission) >> > >> > MEHGAN Sidhu (to seek pro hac vice admission) >> > >> > Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP >> > >> > 120 E. Baltimore St., Suite 1700 >> > >> > Baltimore, MD 21202 >> > >> > Telephone: (410) 962-1030 >> > >> > Fax: (410) 385-0869 >> > >> > >> > >> > SUPERIOR COURT OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA >> > COUNTY OF ALAMEDA >> > >> > >> > >> > National Federation of the Blind, the National Federation of the >> Blind >> > of CALIFORNIA, and DEEPA GORAYA, >> > >> > >> > >> > Plaintiffs, >> > >> > v. >> > >> > LAW SCHOOL ADMISSION COUNCIL, INC., >> > >> > Defendant. >> > >> > >> > >> > Case No.: >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > COMPLAINT FOR INJUNCTIVE AND DECLARATORY RELIEF FOR VIOLATIONS OF >> THE >> > CALIFORNIA DISABLED PERSONS ACT AND UNRUH CIVIL RIGHTS ACT >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > INTRODUCTION >> > >> > Plaintiffs complain of Defendant and allege herein as follows: >> > >> > 1. This action, brought by the National Federation of the Blind, >> > the National Federation of the Blind of California, and Deepa Goraya, >> seeks >> > to put an end to civil rights violations committed by defendant Law >> School >> > Admissions Council (hereafter "LSAC") against blind persons seeking to >> take >> > the LSAT exam and apply to law schools. Plaintiff Deepa Goraya, a blind >> law >> > school applicant in California, has been and is being denied equal >access >> to >> > the accommodations, advantages, and facilities LSAC provides its >> > non-disabled customers through http://www.lsac.org (hereafter "lsac.org" >> > and "the website"). Plaintiffs National Federation of the Blind and the >> > National Federation of the Blind of California have members who are >> > similarly denied full and equal access to such accommodations, >advantages >> > and facilities. Lsac.org is currently the only place online where >> > prospective law students can register for the Law School Admissions Test >> > ("LSAT"), apply to law schools, and obtain official LSAT test >preparation >> > materials and information. Lsac.org contains multiple access barriers >> that >> > make it difficult if not impossible for blind law school applicants and >> LSAT >> > test takers to use the website and to obtain practice materials without >> > sighted assistance. LSAC thus excludes the blind, including Ms. Goraya, >> > from full and equal access to the accommodations, advantages, >facilities, >> > and privileges of lsac.org. >> > >> > JURISDICTION >> > >> > 2. This is a civil action under California's Disabled Persons >Act >> > (Cal. Civ. Code '' 54, et seq.) and the Unruh Civil Rights Act (Cal. >Civ. >> > Code '' 51, et seq.) and for declaratory relief. This Court has >> > jurisdiction over the claims alleged herein pursuant to California Civil >> > Code '' 54, et seq. and California Civil Code '' 51, et seq. and >> California >> > Code of Civil Procedure section 1060. >> > >> > 3. This Court has jurisdiction over LSAC because LSAC is a >> > corporation authorized to do business in California and LSAC conducts >> > substantial business in California. LSAC owns, maintains and operates >its >> > website, lsac.org, throughout California and in Alameda County. >> > >> > >> > >> > VENUE >> > >> > 4. Venue is proper in Alameda County because liability arises in >> > part in Alameda County, where the National Federation of the Blind of >> > California has its headquarters. LSAC has been and is committing the >> acts >> > alleged herein in Alameda County, has been and is violating the rights >of >> > patrons in Alameda County, and has been and is causing injury to patrons >> in >> > Alameda County. >> > >> > 5. Plaintiff Goraya is a California citizen and has experienced >> > injury in California as a result of LSAC's inaccessible website and >> practice >> > materials. >> > >> > PARTIES >> > >> > 6. Plaintiff the National Federation of the Blind (hereafter >> "NFB") >> > is a national advocacy organization. The NFB, the oldest and largest >> > national organization of blind persons, is a non-profit corporation duly >> > organized under the laws of the District of Columbia with its principal >> > place of business in Baltimore, Maryland. It has affiliates in all 50 >> > states (including California) as well as Washington, D.C. and Puerto >> Rico. >> > The vast majority of the approximately 50,000 members are blind >persons. >> > The NFB is widely recognized by the public, Congress, executive >agencies >> of >> > government and the courts as a collective and representative voice on >> behalf >> > of blind Americans and their families. The purpose of the NFB is to >> promote >> > the general welfare of the blind by (1) assisting the blind in their >> efforts >> > to integrate themselves into society on terms of equality and (2) >> removing >> > barriers and changing social attitudes, stereotypes and mistaken beliefs >> > that sighted and blind persons hold concerning the limitations created >by >> > blindness resulting in the denial of opportunity to blind persons in >> > virtually every sphere of life. The NFB and many of its members have >> long >> > been actively involved in promoting adaptive technology for the blind, >so >> > that blind persons can live and work independently in today's >> > technology-dependent world. NFB members reside throughout the United >> > States, including the state of California, and many of its members would >> use >> > the services of lsac.org if this website is made independently usable by >> > the blind. >> > >> > 7. Plaintiff the National Federation of the Blind of California >> > (hereafter "NFB of California") is a state affiliate of the National >> > Federation of the Blind. NFB of California is a California corporation >> and >> > carries out NFB's objectives at the state level. It has local chapters >> > throughout California, including Alameda County, and has its >headquarters >> in >> > Fremont, California, in Alameda County. >> > >> > 8. Plaintiff Goraya is a member of the NFB and the NFB of >> > California. She is blind and has been denied full and equal access to >> the >> > accommodations, advantages, facilities and privileges of lsac.org. >> > >> > 9. Defendant LSAC, is a non-profit corporation >> > established to coordinate, facilitate, and enhance the law school >> admissions >> > process. LSAC owns, operates and/or maintains the website lsac.com, a >> > public accommodation. Plaintiffs seek access to the services provided >by >> > LSAC in California through lsac.org. >> > >> > FACTS >> > >> > 10. Lsac.org is owned, controlled and/or operated by LSAC. >> Lsac.org >> > is a public accommodation that offers its visitors comprehensive >services >> > for applying to law school. The website functions as the official >> > destination for guiding prospective law school applicants through the >> > fundamental steps of applying to law school. Among its services, >> lsac.orgoffers information about the LSAT and law school application >> process, and >> > extensive LSAT preparation materials and resources. Lsac.org also >serves >> as >> > the exclusive online means for registering for the LSAT and applying to >> > ABA-accredited law schools. >> > >> > 11. According to the website, lsac.org's online services enable >> > prospective law students to do the following, among other things: >> > >> > a.. Register for the LSAT >> > b.. Register for the LSDAS (Law School Data Assembly Service) >> > c.. Purchase publications and test preparation materials >> > d.. Have access to electronic applications for all ABA-approved law >> > schools >> > e.. Apply online to law schools >> > f.. Register for law school forums >> > g.. Have 24-hour file access >> > 12. In addition to facilitating the LSAT and law school application >> > processes, a significant portion of the lsac.org website is devoted to >> > preparing students to take the LSAT. Among the services offered in that >> > regard are online information guides that explain how to prepare for the >> > LSAT and free, downloadable sample practice tests and test questions. >> > Lsac.org also offers for a fee an online LSAT practice test tool and >the >> > opportunity to purchase more than 40 official LSAT practice tests. >> > >> > 13. While sighted visitors to lsac.org can easily obtain the benefits >> and >> > advantages offered by the website, blind individuals, including Ms. >> Goraya, >> > have been and are being denied access to lsac.org due to LSAC's failure >> > and refusal to remove access barriers to lsac.org. Specifically, blind >> > visitors to the website, including Ms. Goraya, cannot independently >apply >> to >> > law school, register for the LSAT, or obtain in an accessible format the >> > LSAT preparation materials and practice tests available through lsac.org >> . >> > >> > 14. The blind access websites by using keyboards in conjunction >> with >> > screen-reading software. This software vocalizes or conveys to a >> refreshable >> > Braille display information that appears visually on a computer screen. >> > Unless websites are designed to allow for use in this manner, blind >> persons >> > are unable to fully access the internet websites and the information, >> > products and services contained therein. >> > >> > 15. There are well-established guidelines for making websites >> > accessible to the blind. These guidelines have been in place for at >> least >> > several years and have been followed successfully by other public >> > accommodations in making their online services accessible. The Web >> > Accessibility Initiative (WAI), a project of the World Wide Web >> Consortium, >> > which is the leading standards organization for the Web, has developed >> > guidelines for making information that is reached via the internet >> > accessible. The federal government has also promulgated accessibility >> > standards under Section 508 of the Rehabilitation Act. These guidelines >> > have long been readily available via the internet so that any public >> > accommodation could easily secure the necessary information. >> > >> > 16. Lsac.org contains a variety of access barriers that prevent >> free >> > and full use by blind persons using keyboards and screen reading >> software. >> > These barriers include but are not limited to: lack of or improperly >> > labeled form controls; faulty keyboard navigation; and use of tables and >> > charts that are not formatted for accessibility. Form controls allow >> users >> > to input data on online forms and applications. These controls must be >> > coded and labeled to allow screen-access software to detect and vocalize >> the >> > requested information. Keyboard navigation refers to the ability to >> > successfully navigate a website using keyboard commands, as opposed to >> > requiring a mouse as the exclusive means for navigation of the site. >> > Further, charts and tables must be formatted to work with screen-access >> > software. Much of the lsac.org website, and in particular the online >> law >> > school application and LSAT registration sections of the website, lack >> these >> > fundamental accessibility components. As a result, blind visitors to >the >> > website cannot independently use those and other critical features. >> > >> > 17. Lsac.org's test preparation materials that are available on >the >> > website in Adobe Portable Document (PDF) format, are not properly >> "tagged." >> > This means that the headings, paragraphs, tables, image descriptions >and >> > form controls are not easily discernable to screen-reading software. As >> a >> > result, these materials are cumbersome, if not impossible, for a blind >> > visitor to navigate. >> > >> > 18. Finally, lsac.org fails to offer LSAT practice tests, >> available >> > as part of its test preparation services, in formats accessible to the >> > blind. While the sighted can easily use the website to obtain more than >> 40 >> > formerly administered LSAT practice tests, the website fails to offer >the >> > opportunity to purchase these practice materials in formats accessible >to >> > the blind, such as Braille or an accessible electronic format. >> > >> > 19. As a result of lsac.org's accessibility barriers, blind law >> > school applicants, including Ms. Goraya, must go over extraordinary >> hurdles >> > to register and prepare for the LSAT and to apply to law school compared >> to >> > their sighted counterparts. After unsuccessfully attempting to use >> > lsac.org independently to register for the LSAT and fill out her law >> > school applications, for example, Plaintiff Goraya was forced to select >> and >> > rely upon a reader for over 50 hours simply to read aloud the content of >> the >> > website and complete her law school applications. Moreover, none of the >> > LSAT practice materials, which include previously administered versions >> of >> > the test, were available to her in accessible electronic formats. >> Lsac.org >> > thus contains numerous access barriers which deny full and equal access >> to >> > Plaintiff, who would otherwise use the accommodations, advantages, and >> > facilities of lsac.org. >> > >> > 20. On December 10, 2008, Plaintiff National Federation of the >> Blind >> > notified LSAC of the unlawful accessibility barriers on its website. >> LSAC >> > responded by setting up and then canceling a meeting with the NFB. On >> > January 22, 2009, the NFB notified LSAC that it intended to pursue legal >> > action against LSAC for the unlawful barriers on its website. >> > >> > FIRST CAUSE OF ACTION >> > >> > (Violation of Cal. Civ. Code '' 54, et seq. - the Disabled Persons Act) >> > >> > 21. The allegations contained in the previous paragraphs are >> > incorporated by reference. >> > >> > 22. The Disabled Persons Act ("DPA") requires that individuals >with >> > disabilities have "full and equal access, as other members of the >general >> > public, to accommodations, advantages, facilities, . . . and other >places >> to >> > which the general public is invited, subject only to the conditions and >> > limitations established by law, or state or federal regulation, and >> > applicable alike to all persons." Cal. Civ. Code 54.1(a)(1). >> > >> > 23. Lsac.org, which is owned, operated and/or maintained by LSAC, >> is >> > an >> > >> > accommodation, advantage, facility and/or place to which the general >> public >> > is invited, as those terms are used in Cal. Civ. Code ' 54.1(a)(1). >> > >> > 24. Defendant's conduct alleged herein violates the DPA, including >> > Cal. Civ. Code ' 54.1(a)(1), by denying the Plaintiffs full and equal >> access >> > to the accommodations, advantages and facilities of lsac.org. >> > >> > 25. As a result of Defendant's conduct, the NFB, the NFB of >> > California, and Ms. Goraya are entitled to injunctive relief requiring >> > Defendant to make lsac.org accessible to blind individuals, and to make >> > the LSAT test practice materials offered to lsac.org patrons available >> to >> > blind people in an accessible format. >> > >> > SECOND CAUSE OF ACTION >> > >> > (Violation of Cal.Civ. Code '' 51, et seq. - The Unruh Act) >> > >> > 26. The allegations contained in the previous paragraphs are >> > incorporated by reference. >> > >> > 27. California's Unruh Act requires that individuals with >> > disabilities have "full and equal accommodations, advantages, >facilities, >> > privileges or services in all business establishments of every kind >> > whatsoever." Cal. Civ. Code ' 51(b). >> > >> > 28. LSAC and Lsac.org are business establishments as that term is >> > used in Cal. Civ. Code ' 51(b) and lsac.org is an accommodation, >> > advantage, facility, privilege and service of LSAC. >> > >> > 29. Defendant's conduct alleged herein violates the Unruh Act, >> > including Cal. Civ. Code ' 51(b), by denying Plaintiffs the full and >> equal >> > accommodations, advantages, facilities, privileges or services of LSAC >> and >> > lsac.org. >> > >> > 30. Defendant violated the Unruh Act intentionally and/or with >> > deliberate indifference to the likelihood that it was violating the >> rights >> > of blind people and/or Defendant's violations were so intuitive or >> obvious >> > that noncompliance could not be other than intentional. >> > >> > 31. As a result of Defendant's conduct, the NFB, the NFB of >> > California, and Ms. Goraya are entitled to injunctive relief requiring >> > Defendant to make lsac.org accessible to blind individuals, and to make >> > the LSAT test practice materials offered to lsac.org patrons available >> to >> > blind people in an accessible format. >> > >> > >> > >> > THIRD CAUSE OF ACTION >> > >> > (Declaratory Relief, Cal. Civ. Proc. ' 1060 ) >> > >> > 32. The allegations contained in the previous paragraphs are >> > incorporated by reference. >> > >> > 33. On information and belief, Defendants contend that they may >> > lawfully deny Plaintiffs access to their website and its contents. >> > Plaintiffs contend that lsac.org, which LSAC owns, operates, and/or >> > controls, must provide blind patrons access to its website and website >> > contents under California Civil Code '' 54, et seq. and California Civil >> > Code '' 51, et seq., which prohibit discrimination against the blind. >> > >> > 34. A judicial declaration is necessary and appropriate at this >> time >> > in order that each of the parties may know their respective rights and >> > duties and act accordingly. >> > >> > WHEREFORE, Plaintiffs request relief as set forth below. >> > >> > RELIEF REQUESTED >> > >> > WHEREFORE, Plaintiffs pray for judgment as follows: >> > >> > 1. An order enjoining LSAC from violating California >> > Civil Code '' 51, et seq. and '' 54, et seq.; >> > >> > 2. A declaration that LSAC is owning, maintaining >> and/or >> > operating lsac.org in a manner which discriminates against the blind and >> > which fails to provide access for persons with disabilities as required >> by >> > law; >> > >> > 3. Plaintiffs' reasonable attorneys' fees and costs >as >> > authorized by California California Civil Code '' 54, et seq., >California >> > Civil Code '' 51, et seq., and pursuant to California Code of Civil >> > Procedure ' 1021.5. >> > >> > 4. Such other and further relief as the Court deems >> just >> > and proper. >> > >> > >> > >> > DATED: >> > DISABILITY RIGHTS ADVOCATES >> > >> > >> > >> > >> By: >> > ____________________________ >> > >> > >> > Laurence W. Paradis >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. >> > >> > LaBarre Law Offices P.C. >> > 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 >> > Denver, Colorado 80222 >> > 303 504-5979 (voice) >> > 303 757-3640 (fax) >> > slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) >> > www.labarrelaw.com (website) >> > >> > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and >> > privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may >> not >> > read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this >> message >> > in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or >> > slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. >> This >> > message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic >> > Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. '' 2510-2521. >> > _______________________________________________ >> > blindlaw mailing list >> > blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> > blindlaw: >> > >> > >> >> >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b75205%40gmail.co m >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> >> >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/bspiry%40comcast. n >> et >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> >> >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b75205%40gmail.co m >> >_______________________________________________ >blindlaw mailing list >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >blindlaw: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/bspiry%40comcast. n >et >_______________________________________________ >blindlaw mailing list >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >blindlaw: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail .com >_______________________________________________ >blindlaw mailing list >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie%40mpmail.ne t _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie.matney%40gmail.com From angie at mpmail.net Sat Mar 14 19:14:47 2009 From: angie at mpmail.net (Angie Matney) Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 15:14:47 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Joe asked: >What troubles me is that my question of accessibility standards has not been >answered on the other case against the LSAC. The same question is >applicable here. What standard was used to conclude that the web site was >not accessible? I do not claim to be a genius at manipulating technology to >serve my needs, but I did not have to try hard at all to make Target give me >what I needed between 2005 and 2008. I can't compare the relative accessibility of the Target site to the LSAC site because I haven't attempted to shop at Target's site. But the LSAC site is inaccessible to every person who uses JAWS as their sole means of accessing the internet. (At least, this was the case when I applied to law schools in the fall of 2005.) Perhaps I overestimate my own abilities, but I feel pretty confident in saying that I can get just about any marginally accessible site to do what I want. But I could not apply to law school without the aid of multiple friends who served as readers. In fall, 2005, the application forms used by LSAC were not accessible with JAWS. I believe I was able to enter information into the "general" form, which then populated each application form with my personal data. But the specific application forms didn't speak. So is the problem the web site layout, >or is it our own technology training? Rather than chase every entity with >features a few people deem inaccessible, would it not be prudent to take our >standards, whatever those may be, to the classroom, to the software >developers, the relevant associations raising the performance standards of >its students and members? Possibly. But on the other hand, why should blind people have to be especially proficient computer users to access things like a retail web site? There will always be people who, for whatever reason, do not have the opportunity to receive the kind of training you're talking about. There will be others who, regardless of training, possess less intuition about how to operate a screen reader in unfamiliar circumstances. I'm not suggesting that web site developers should assume zero training on the part of the end user; but relying on extensive training to guarantee accessibility automatically means some people will be excluded. This reminds me of an experience I had a few months back. I was flying to Boston to visit a friend, and I wanted to reserve window seats. I was presented with an image map that seemed to give me this opportunity. I thought about how best to approach the thing, made an educated guess about what to do, and successfully reserved the seats I wanted. (The gate agent later happily informed me that he'd gone ahead and moved me to bulkhead seating because of my dog. I told him I wanted my chosen seat. He refused, claiming regs required him to put me there. Fortunately the flight attendant let me have the seat I'd worked so hard to reserve. I wish I'd filed a formal complaint about that...But I digress.) I later heard a blind friend, who is also quite proficient with access technology, characterize what I assume was a similar site (possibly even the same airline site) as inaccessible. I personally don't believe that the fact that I was able to figure this out makes the site accessible. A sighted user would not have to work nearly so hard to reserve a seat on a flight. There will always be some people who are intimidated by the internet in general. These individuals will have trouble accessing the basic features of many web sites. (My dad is one such person, and he's not blind.) But if reasonably proficient blind computer users can't access a site, I think it's perfectly reasonable to insist on modifications. We don't want an internet that is only accessible to those of us who have had the most opportunities. JMO, Angie From bspiry at comcast.net Sat Mar 14 20:21:49 2009 From: bspiry at comcast.net (Bill Spiry) Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 13:21:49 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target References: Message-ID: <000f01c9a4e2$815a4230$840ec690$@net> I completely agree with Angie's perspective on this. The reality is that if a blind person is able to navigate the internet and get to the site of a retailer, that blind person likely already has a higher skill level with the computer, out of simple necessity, than the average sighted person who simply uses their PC to browse the web, do some shopping and send a few emails. We will never be free of the necessity to learn the skills of blindness in order to live "normal" lives, but by God we should not be required to developed specialized technical and functional skills in order to use simple services and enjoy privledges when those services and privledges can be made accessible with limited cost and effort. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Angie Matney Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 12:15 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target Joe asked: >What troubles me is that my question of accessibility standards has not been >answered on the other case against the LSAC. The same question is >applicable here. What standard was used to conclude that the web site was >not accessible? I do not claim to be a genius at manipulating technology to >serve my needs, but I did not have to try hard at all to make Target give me >what I needed between 2005 and 2008. I can't compare the relative accessibility of the Target site to the LSAC site because I haven't attempted to shop at Target's site. But the LSAC site is inaccessible to every person who uses JAWS as their sole means of accessing the internet. (At least, this was the case when I applied to law schools in the fall of 2005.) Perhaps I overestimate my own abilities, but I feel pretty confident in saying that I can get just about any marginally accessible site to do what I want. But I could not apply to law school without the aid of multiple friends who served as readers. In fall, 2005, the application forms used by LSAC were not accessible with JAWS. I believe I was able to enter information into the "general" form, which then populated each application form with my personal data. But the specific application forms didn't speak. So is the problem the web site layout, >or is it our own technology training? Rather than chase every entity with >features a few people deem inaccessible, would it not be prudent to take our >standards, whatever those may be, to the classroom, to the software >developers, the relevant associations raising the performance standards of >its students and members? Possibly. But on the other hand, why should blind people have to be especially proficient computer users to access things like a retail web site? There will always be people who, for whatever reason, do not have the opportunity to receive the kind of training you're talking about. There will be others who, regardless of training, possess less intuition about how to operate a screen reader in unfamiliar circumstances. I'm not suggesting that web site developers should assume zero training on the part of the end user; but relying on extensive training to guarantee accessibility automatically means some people will be excluded. This reminds me of an experience I had a few months back. I was flying to Boston to visit a friend, and I wanted to reserve window seats. I was presented with an image map that seemed to give me this opportunity. I thought about how best to approach the thing, made an educated guess about what to do, and successfully reserved the seats I wanted. (The gate agent later happily informed me that he'd gone ahead and moved me to bulkhead seating because of my dog. I told him I wanted my chosen seat. He refused, claiming regs required him to put me there. Fortunately the flight attendant let me have the seat I'd worked so hard to reserve. I wish I'd filed a formal complaint about that...But I digress.) I later heard a blind friend, who is also quite proficient with access technology, characterize what I assume was a similar site (possibly even the same airline site) as inaccessible. I personally don't believe that the fact that I was able to figure this out makes the site accessible. A sighted user would not have to work nearly so hard to reserve a seat on a flight. There will always be some people who are intimidated by the internet in general. These individuals will have trouble accessing the basic features of many web sites. (My dad is one such person, and he's not blind.) But if reasonably proficient blind computer users can't access a site, I think it's perfectly reasonable to insist on modifications. We don't want an internet that is only accessible to those of us who have had the most opportunities. JMO, Angie _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/bspiry%40comcast.n et From stevep.deeley at insightbb.com Sat Mar 14 20:52:25 2009 From: stevep.deeley at insightbb.com (Steve P. Deeley) Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 16:52:25 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target In-Reply-To: References: <549FC55C53E54BA5814FA71C231CE71F@StevePC> <489BACB231A24B1494701FE7E81396B8@StevePC> <3C355AFB1ACB43EEBDBD9356D3EFBF38@StevePC> Message-ID: <90478605097E4FFFBD705620CC057167@StevePC> I will guarantee most individuals in our society don't agree with the way damages are calculated. You are a lawyer, so that sort of argument from you is expected, Especially telling others who don't agree with your position or, the position of most lawyers,concerning the calculation of damages in these civil rights cases. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rod Alcidonis" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 2:23 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target If damages are not awarded as a remedy at law, the next option would be to grant some equitable relief like an injunction. No court will ask Target to shut down its website until it make it accessible to the blind. This would be considered economic waste and against the public interest if millions of people are forced to stop shopping on line. In the law's eyes, what the plaintiffs really want is for their civil rights not to be violated. If one accept to go ahead and violate them, the least that the law can afford to those plaintiffs is money. The court knows that money is not primarily what the plaintiffs are seeking, but there must be a way for the defendant to answer to society for its wrong doing. Here, it was by making the defendant compensate the plaintiffs for the harm that it caused, I.E, by making the defendant pay for violating the plaintiffs' civil rights. Keep saying the following outloud you will get it: "the damages was for the violation of the plaintiffs' civil rights, not for any physical pain or frustration in not using the Target website." For further edification of your understanding: Once the court can calculate a dollar amount (hence the amount of the damages award), equitable relief is not necessary and such prayers will not be entertained in a court of equity. Here, the court was able to come up with a dollar amount for the violation of the plaintiffs' civil rights. Steve, unless you accept to place your emotions aside and exercise a little willingness to learn, even for one day, your reactions will continue to come across as being very uninformed. I don't think you want that. That's why some of us are trying to help you here while most have resolved to ignoring your comments. If you continue to persist along the same line in light of the effort that's been made to help you out, I will have to conclude in a very respectable way that you are just an ignorant man. I am sorry. Take care. Rod Alcidonis Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009. Roger Williams University School of Law 10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 Bristol, RI 02809 Cell: 718-704-4651 Home: 401-824-8685 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. Deeley" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 12:41 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target I understand that, however, I just do not agree with the entire concept of awarding damages in this sort of case. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rod Alcidonis" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 9:27 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target Steve: The effort here was to try to help your understanding and educate your logic, not to justify the existence of the legal system. I am afraid that you are still not willing to accept that "damage" as used in the law is a term of art. Meaning, It has a specific legal definition different from normal use. It is different when you say that "my bicycle was damaged, for example. It is a legal recognition that certain harms should be compensated. In this case, the plaintiffs are being paid not for the fact that they were physically damage in the normal use of the term, but for violations of their civil rights. See Denis' e-mail for what the harm was. In the bicycle example, if someone were to break your bicycle, you can receive "damages" as the cost of repair, or replacement of the bicycle. By the way, you are also entitled to enforce your civil rights if you so choose and receive damages. Not every violations entitle someone to such remedy. When a person cannot get damages under the law, that person has the option of seeking equitable relief in the form of an injunction or restraining order against the defendant. In this case damages was available as a remedy so the plaintiffs are getting money. They are getting paid because their civil rights were violated. I hope this further helps inform your comments. Take care. Rod Alcidonis Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009. Roger Williams University School of Law 10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 Bristol, RI 02809 Cell: 718-704-4651 Home: 401-824-8685 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. Deeley" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 9:22 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target That is a lawyer talking who makes his living in rediculous situations like this one. Again, you show me how an individual was damaged and out $4,000.00. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott C. LaBarre" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 5:38 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target Violation of civil rights has long been recognized as a form of compensible legal damage as well it should be. Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. LaBarre Law Offices P.C. 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 Denver, Colorado 80222 303 504-5979 (voice) 303 757-3640 (fax) slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) www.labarrelaw.com (website) CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. Deeley" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 2:31 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > This is ridiculous! How were these people damaged? > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mehgan Sidhu" > To: > Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 3:20 PM > Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > >> To answer the recent questions posted about the Target case, the final >> settlement hearing took place on March 9th. I understand from our >> counsel in California, Larry Paradis of DRA and Josh Konecky, that there >> were no objectors and the Judge was pleased with the resolution of the >> case. The settlement is not fully "final" until the time for any >> appeals has run - which is about 30 days. Given there were no objectors, >> it is highly unlikely that any appeals will be filed. The judge has not >> yet made a ruling on attorneys fees, but that will not hold up >> enforcement of the settlement. >> >> >> >> As for disbursements, assuming there are no appeals, the claims >> administer has 45 days from the final approval date to disburse funds to >> claimants. I do not know the final tally of approved claimants, though I >> think there were several hundred. I will pass that information along >> when I have it. >> >> >> >> We will now be working on enforcing the settlement commitments that >> Target made with respect to the accessibility of the website. >> >> >> Mehgan Sidhu >> Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP >> 120 East Baltimore Street, Suite 1700 >> Baltimore, Maryland 21202 >> 410-962-1030 x1324 >> 410-385-0869 (fax) >> ms at browngold.com >> www.browngold.com >> >> Confidentiality Notice >> >> This e-mail may contain confidential information that may also be legally >> privileged and that is intended only for the use of the addressee(s) >> named above. If you are not the intended recipient or an authorized >> agent of the recipient, please be advised that any dissemination or >> copying of this e-mail, or taking of any action in reliance on the >> information contained herein, is strictly prohibited. If you have >> received this e-mail in error, please notify me immediately by use of the >> reply button, and then delete the e-mail from your system. Thank you! >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release Date: 03/13/09 > 05:59:00 > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/slabarre%40labarrelaw.com > _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release Date: 03/13/09 05:59:00 _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/2001 - Release Date: 03/14/09 06:54:00 _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/2001 - Release Date: 03/14/09 06:54:00 From angie at mpmail.net Sat Mar 14 21:16:30 2009 From: angie at mpmail.net (Angie Matney) Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 17:16:30 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Multiple LSAT Scores In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Here's what UVA's web site says: What is your policy on multiple LSAT scores? The ABA requires law schools to report LSAT information using an admitted students highest score, so that is the score to which we give the most weight. We evaluate all information submitted as part of the application for admission, however, including all scores earned on the LSAT. Studies by the Law School Admission Council suggest that in most cases the average score is the most accurate predictor of academic performance in the first year of law school, so we encourage applicants with a significant difference in LSAT scores to include with their application any information that may be relevant to the interpretation of test results, such as illness, testing conditions, or other circumstances that may have affected LSAT performance. From carter.tjoseph at gmail.com Sat Mar 14 21:55:46 2009 From: carter.tjoseph at gmail.com (T. Joseph Carter) Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 14:55:46 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target In-Reply-To: <78726D7BDC0D4E1EBBAE1E83A3D6FE14@StevePC> References: <549FC55C53E54BA5814FA71C231CE71F@StevePC> <489BACB231A24B1494701FE7E81396B8@StevePC> <78726D7BDC0D4E1EBBAE1E83A3D6FE14@StevePC> Message-ID: <20090314215546.GF82715@yumi.bluecherry.net> Steve, I think you missed the whole point of what statutory damages are for. If I am doing something that could cost me $4,000 per person, per incident, I'm not very likely to do it am I? California's lawmakers (who arguably spend too much time in the Marijuana clinics if you look at some of the hair-brained things they've tried to make law) have decided to make the minimum amount of damage be $4,000 so that people will not discriminate. Their thinking was that this was high enough to convince them not to do it--or failing that a couple of really high profile cases like ours with Target would make people think twice. You can whine about the injustice of a huge cash payout to those blind Californians lucky enough to have attempted to use Target's website, but the fact remains that the payout is essentially how the California government has decided to punish discrimination. I say good for them. If discrimination can be proven 36 years after the Rehab Act and 18 years after the ADA, then obviously some people stubbornly refuse to get the message. Joseph On Sat, Mar 14, 2009 at 09:24:24AM -0400, Steve P. Deeley wrote: > That should not result in you receiving damages of almost $4,000.00. From timandvickie at hotmail.com Sat Mar 14 21:59:04 2009 From: timandvickie at hotmail.com (Tim Shaw) Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 21:59:04 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target In-Reply-To: <000f01c9a4e2$815a4230$840ec690$@net> References: <000f01c9a4e2$815a4230$840ec690$@net> Message-ID: heh the skills of blindness;) i had a job interview to be a rehabilitation teacher for the blind on Thursdfday and all the interview questions were like "what is a goal a blind person might set for themselves" and "what are some things a blind person could use to aide them in their every day living" it was like really are you asking me, a blind person, these questions lol. > From: bspiry at comcast.net > To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org > Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 13:21:49 -0700 > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > I completely agree with Angie's perspective on this. The reality is that if > a blind person is able to navigate the internet and get to the site of a > retailer, that blind person likely already has a higher skill level with the > computer, out of simple necessity, than the average sighted person who > simply uses their PC to browse the web, do some shopping and send a few > emails. We will never be free of the necessity to learn the skills of > blindness in order to live "normal" lives, but by God we should not be > required to developed specialized technical and functional skills in order > to use simple services and enjoy privledges when those services and > privledges can be made accessible with limited cost and effort. > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of Angie Matney > Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 12:15 PM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > Joe asked: > > >What troubles me is that my question of accessibility standards has not > been > >answered on the other case against the LSAC. The same question is > >applicable here. What standard was used to conclude that the web site was > >not accessible? I do not claim to be a genius at manipulating technology > to > >serve my needs, but I did not have to try hard at all to make Target give > me > >what I needed between 2005 and 2008. > > I can't compare the relative accessibility of the Target site to the LSAC > site because I haven't attempted to shop at Target's site. But the LSAC site > is inaccessible to every person who uses JAWS as their sole means of > accessing the internet. > (At least, this was the case when I applied to law schools in the fall of > 2005.) Perhaps I overestimate my own abilities, but I feel pretty confident > in saying that I can get just about any marginally accessible site to do > what I want. But I could not > apply to law school without the aid of multiple friends who served as > readers. In fall, 2005, the application forms used by LSAC were not > accessible with JAWS. I believe I was able to enter information into the > "general" form, which then > populated each application form with my personal data. But the specific > application forms didn't speak. > > So is the problem the web site layout, > >or is it our own technology training? Rather than chase every entity with > >features a few people deem inaccessible, would it not be prudent to take > our > >standards, whatever those may be, to the classroom, to the software > >developers, the relevant associations raising the performance standards of > >its students and members? > > Possibly. But on the other hand, why should blind people have to be > especially proficient computer users to access things like a retail web > site? There will always be people who, for whatever reason, do not have the > opportunity to receive the > kind of training you're talking about. There will be others who, regardless > of training, possess less intuition about how to operate a screen reader in > unfamiliar circumstances. I'm not suggesting that web site developers should > assume zero > training on the part of the end user; but relying on extensive training to > guarantee accessibility automatically means some people will be excluded. > > This reminds me of an experience I had a few months back. I was flying to > Boston to visit a friend, and I wanted to reserve window seats. I was > presented with an image map that seemed to give me this opportunity. I > thought about how best to > approach the thing, made an educated guess about what to do, and > successfully reserved the seats I wanted. (The gate agent later happily > informed me that he'd gone ahead and moved me to bulkhead seating because of > my dog. I told him > I wanted my chosen seat. He refused, claiming regs required him to put me > there. Fortunately the flight attendant let me have the seat I'd worked so > hard to reserve. I wish I'd filed a formal complaint about that...But I > digress.) I later heard a > blind friend, who is also quite proficient with access technology, > characterize what I assume was a similar site (possibly even the same > airline site) as inaccessible. I personally don't believe that the fact that > I was able to figure this out makes > the site accessible. A sighted user would not have to work nearly so hard to > reserve a seat on a flight. > > There will always be some people who are intimidated by the internet in > general. These individuals will have trouble accessing the basic features of > many web sites. (My dad is one such person, and he's not blind.) But if > reasonably proficient > blind computer users can't access a site, I think it's perfectly reasonable > to insist on modifications. We don't want an internet that is only > accessible to those of us who have had the most opportunities. > > JMO, > > Angie > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/bspiry%40comcast.n > et > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/timandvickie%40hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ Express your personality in color! Preview and select themes for Hotmail®. http://www.windowslive-hotmail.com/LearnMore/personalize.aspx?ocid=TXT_MSGTX_WL_HM_express_032009#colortheme From cdanielsen8 at aol.com Sat Mar 14 22:02:30 2009 From: cdanielsen8 at aol.com (Chris Danielsen) Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 18:02:30 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target In-Reply-To: <588EC588BDA14F18B7560ACF4C83829B@StevePC> References: <549FC55C53E54BA5814FA71C231CE71F@StevePC><001301c9a442$63a1e180$6401a8c0@server> <588EC588BDA14F18B7560ACF4C83829B@StevePC> Message-ID: <03511FE329E54410AB0E98A49306651B@Scorpio13> Darn right. Being discriminated against is always psychologically damaging. Look, Steve, the idea here is to show Target that it is wrong to discriminate against blind people. Some greedy corporations don't understand anything but money, so the legislature of California decided to impose a specific cost per claim on them so that they would learn this lesson the hard way. If corporations only had to payt ten cents every time they discriminated against somebody, they might figure that it was easier just to go right on discriminating. At $4,000 a pop--which isn't much money at all when you're a company like Target--maybe, just maybe, they'll think twice about it. Chris -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 9:27 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target I'm quite certain there was psychological damage as well, right??? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dennis Clark" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 9:15 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > They were damaged in that they were not able to place orders on Targets > website using screen readers. As a result you would have to make > purchases > on the Target website using sighted assistance, likely paid assistance, or > you would have to go to a Target store. If retailers like Target do not > wish to make their websites available to all people, all they need to do > is > take the website down, and we can all go to the store in person to make > our > purchases. > All the best, > Dennis > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Steve P. Deeley" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 1:31 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > >> This is ridiculous! How were these people damaged? >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Mehgan Sidhu" >> To: >> Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 3:20 PM >> Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target >> >> >>> To answer the recent questions posted about the Target case, the final >>> settlement hearing took place on March 9th. I understand from our >>> counsel in California, Larry Paradis of DRA and Josh Konecky, that there >>> were no objectors and the Judge was pleased with the resolution of the >>> case. The settlement is not fully "final" until the time for any >>> appeals has run - which is about 30 days. Given there were no >>> objectors, >>> it is highly unlikely that any appeals will be filed. The judge has not >>> yet made a ruling on attorneys fees, but that will not hold up >>> enforcement of the settlement. >>> >>> >>> >>> As for disbursements, assuming there are no appeals, the claims >>> administer has 45 days from the final approval date to disburse funds to >>> claimants. I do not know the final tally of approved claimants, though I >>> think there were several hundred. I will pass that information along >>> when I have it. >>> >>> >>> >>> We will now be working on enforcing the settlement commitments that >>> Target made with respect to the accessibility of the website. >>> >>> >>> Mehgan Sidhu >>> Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP >>> 120 East Baltimore Street, Suite 1700 >>> Baltimore, Maryland 21202 >>> 410-962-1030 x1324 >>> 410-385-0869 (fax) >>> ms at browngold.com >>> www.browngold.com >>> >>> Confidentiality Notice >>> >>> This e-mail may contain confidential information that may also be >>> legally >>> privileged and that is intended only for the use of the addressee(s) >>> named above. If you are not the intended recipient or an authorized >>> agent of the recipient, please be advised that any dissemination or >>> copying of this e-mail, or taking of any action in reliance on the >>> information contained herein, is strictly prohibited. If you have >>> received this e-mail in error, please notify me immediately by use of >>> the >>> reply button, and then delete the e-mail from your system. Thank you! >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in sightbb.com >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- >> >> >> >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release Date: >> 03/13/09 >> 05:59:00 >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dennisgclark%40sbc global.net > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in sightbb.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release Date: 03/13/09 05:59:00 _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3936 (20090313) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3936 (20090313) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From joramsey at cox.net Sat Mar 14 22:10:03 2009 From: joramsey at cox.net (John ) Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 18:10:03 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Multiple LSAT Scores In-Reply-To: <20090314215724.IUPS15875.fed1rmmtai110.cox.net@fed1rmimpi01.cox.net> Message-ID: <4F79E4EE98A44E7384EC96CA1D9C82BB@noneeb869fea9a> It has been several years since I had the displeasure of taking the LSAT, but something I have always pondered about is this fictional belief that the LSAT score is an accurate predictor of how a student will do in his first year of law school. I personally believe that it is not a predictor of anything, much less, how a person will perform in law school. I am sure that there a thousand studies supporting and refuting this claim. I just find it interesting. Take care, John John A. Ramsey Jr., Esq. Gainesville, FL 32609 Phone: (352) 505-6642 -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Angie Matney Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 5:17 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: [blindlaw] Multiple LSAT Scores Here's what UVA's web site says: What is your policy on multiple LSAT scores? The ABA requires law schools to report LSAT information using an admitted students highest score, so that is the score to which we give the most weight. We evaluate all information submitted as part of the application for admission, however, including all scores earned on the LSAT. Studies by the Law School Admission Council suggest that in most cases the average score is the most accurate predictor of academic performance in the first year of law school, so we encourage applicants with a significant difference in LSAT scores to include with their application any information that may be relevant to the interpretation of test results, such as illness, testing conditions, or other circumstances that may have affected LSAT performance. _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joramsey%40cox.net From b75205 at gmail.com Sat Mar 14 22:14:38 2009 From: b75205 at gmail.com (James Pepper) Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 17:14:38 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Multiple LSAT Scores In-Reply-To: <49bc25d7.4403be0a.6ba8.0730SMTPIN_ADDED@mx.google.com> References: <49bc25d7.4403be0a.6ba8.0730SMTPIN_ADDED@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Problem here is that the school cannot ask the applicant if they are disabled. Some testing agencies reveal what type of accessibility device is used to take a standardized test. I have seen this in forms for a local college. They know who is disabled or not without asking the student about their disability. This is for incoming freshman and not the LSAC. James From DFrye at nfb.org Sat Mar 14 22:11:48 2009 From: DFrye at nfb.org (Frye, Dan) Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 18:11:48 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target In-Reply-To: <90478605097E4FFFBD705620CC057167@StevePC> Message-ID: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6B839AD9@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local> List Colleagues: I suggest we stop engaging this gentleman as though his responses deserve a serious or thoughtful reply. Our good faith efforts to treat his comments with respect are only met with what is clearly a political commentary that he wants to express. While he is entitled to have whatever view of the world and civil rights that he wishes, I hardly think that his view warrants exhaustive coverage on this list that is designed to discuss legitimate matters of law, practice as blind lawyers, and the like. Responding to him only gives him repeated opportunities to articulate this hostile world view. He would be better suited to share his perspective on civil rights with a bunch of people who subscribe to his feelings, in a political forum designed for such a purpose. Dan Frye -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 4:52 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target I will guarantee most individuals in our society don't agree with the way damages are calculated. You are a lawyer, so that sort of argument from you is expected, Especially telling others who don't agree with your position or, the position of most lawyers,concerning the calculation of damages in these civil rights cases. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rod Alcidonis" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 2:23 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target If damages are not awarded as a remedy at law, the next option would be to grant some equitable relief like an injunction. No court will ask Target to shut down its website until it make it accessible to the blind. This would be considered economic waste and against the public interest if millions of people are forced to stop shopping on line. In the law's eyes, what the plaintiffs really want is for their civil rights not to be violated. If one accept to go ahead and violate them, the least that the law can afford to those plaintiffs is money. The court knows that money is not primarily what the plaintiffs are seeking, but there must be a way for the defendant to answer to society for its wrong doing. Here, it was by making the defendant compensate the plaintiffs for the harm that it caused, I.E, by making the defendant pay for violating the plaintiffs' civil rights. Keep saying the following outloud you will get it: "the damages was for the violation of the plaintiffs' civil rights, not for any physical pain or frustration in not using the Target website." For further edification of your understanding: Once the court can calculate a dollar amount (hence the amount of the damages award), equitable relief is not necessary and such prayers will not be entertained in a court of equity. Here, the court was able to come up with a dollar amount for the violation of the plaintiffs' civil rights. Steve, unless you accept to place your emotions aside and exercise a little willingness to learn, even for one day, your reactions will continue to come across as being very uninformed. I don't think you want that. That's why some of us are trying to help you here while most have resolved to ignoring your comments. If you continue to persist along the same line in light of the effort that's been made to help you out, I will have to conclude in a very respectable way that you are just an ignorant man. I am sorry. Take care. Rod Alcidonis Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009. Roger Williams University School of Law 10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 Bristol, RI 02809 Cell: 718-704-4651 Home: 401-824-8685 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. Deeley" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 12:41 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target I understand that, however, I just do not agree with the entire concept of awarding damages in this sort of case. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rod Alcidonis" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 9:27 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target Steve: The effort here was to try to help your understanding and educate your logic, not to justify the existence of the legal system. I am afraid that you are still not willing to accept that "damage" as used in the law is a term of art. Meaning, It has a specific legal definition different from normal use. It is different when you say that "my bicycle was damaged, for example. It is a legal recognition that certain harms should be compensated. In this case, the plaintiffs are being paid not for the fact that they were physically damage in the normal use of the term, but for violations of their civil rights. See Denis' e-mail for what the harm was. In the bicycle example, if someone were to break your bicycle, you can receive "damages" as the cost of repair, or replacement of the bicycle. By the way, you are also entitled to enforce your civil rights if you so choose and receive damages. Not every violations entitle someone to such remedy. When a person cannot get damages under the law, that person has the option of seeking equitable relief in the form of an injunction or restraining order against the defendant. In this case damages was available as a remedy so the plaintiffs are getting money. They are getting paid because their civil rights were violated. I hope this further helps inform your comments. Take care. Rod Alcidonis Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009. Roger Williams University School of Law 10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 Bristol, RI 02809 Cell: 718-704-4651 Home: 401-824-8685 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. Deeley" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 9:22 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target That is a lawyer talking who makes his living in rediculous situations like this one. Again, you show me how an individual was damaged and out $4,000.00. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott C. LaBarre" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 5:38 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target Violation of civil rights has long been recognized as a form of compensible legal damage as well it should be. Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. LaBarre Law Offices P.C. 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 Denver, Colorado 80222 303 504-5979 (voice) 303 757-3640 (fax) slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) www.labarrelaw.com (website) CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. Deeley" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 2:31 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > This is ridiculous! How were these people damaged? > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mehgan Sidhu" > To: > Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 3:20 PM > Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > >> To answer the recent questions posted about the Target case, the final >> settlement hearing took place on March 9th. I understand from our >> counsel in California, Larry Paradis of DRA and Josh Konecky, that there >> were no objectors and the Judge was pleased with the resolution of the >> case. The settlement is not fully "final" until the time for any >> appeals has run - which is about 30 days. Given there were no objectors, >> it is highly unlikely that any appeals will be filed. The judge has not >> yet made a ruling on attorneys fees, but that will not hold up >> enforcement of the settlement. >> >> >> >> As for disbursements, assuming there are no appeals, the claims >> administer has 45 days from the final approval date to disburse funds to >> claimants. I do not know the final tally of approved claimants, though I >> think there were several hundred. I will pass that information along >> when I have it. >> >> >> >> We will now be working on enforcing the settlement commitments that >> Target made with respect to the accessibility of the website. >> >> >> Mehgan Sidhu >> Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP >> 120 East Baltimore Street, Suite 1700 >> Baltimore, Maryland 21202 >> 410-962-1030 x1324 >> 410-385-0869 (fax) >> ms at browngold.com >> www.browngold.com >> >> Confidentiality Notice >> >> This e-mail may contain confidential information that may also be legally >> privileged and that is intended only for the use of the addressee(s) >> named above. If you are not the intended recipient or an authorized >> agent of the recipient, please be advised that any dissemination or >> copying of this e-mail, or taking of any action in reliance on the >> information contained herein, is strictly prohibited. If you have >> received this e-mail in error, please notify me immediately by use of the >> reply button, and then delete the e-mail from your system. Thank you! >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release Date: 03/13/09 > 05:59:00 > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/slabarre%40labarrelaw.com > _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release Date: 03/13/09 05:59:00 _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/2001 - Release Date: 03/14/09 06:54:00 _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/2001 - Release Date: 03/14/09 06:54:00 _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dfrye%40nfb.org From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Sun Mar 15 00:14:14 2009 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 17:14:14 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target In-Reply-To: <03B8D4FE14404DA090F70CC5A0D9949B@StevePC> References: <549FC55C53E54BA5814FA71C231CE71F@StevePC> <03B8D4FE14404DA090F70CC5A0D9949B@StevePC> Message-ID: <572950BB1C7A4653B86DA42CA429C608@spike> part of the issue here is that damages awarded to punish businesses for this type of inappropriate behavior. it is used as a deterrent to insure that businesses are made to follow the laws and take civil rights issues seriously. It is the same principle that courts use for assessing fines for drunk driving and other offenses. In order to bring about change you need to affect an individual or a business in a way that is effective and awarding damages is one of the best ways possible. It has become a sound principal of law and has been upheld in many court tests both in civil and criminal cases. Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal 1237 P Street Fresno ca 93721 559-266-9237 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. Deeley" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 6:25 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target >I want someone to show me how this results in damages of this magnitude. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Rod Alcidonis" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 12:24 AM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > >> Steve: >> >> If you are not an attorney or a law student, we may be arguing and >> understanding different concepts here. "Damage" is a legal concept, and >> if >> not used in that sense can certainly lead to ridiculous understanding. A >> damage award allows a plaintiff to be compensated for the harm caused by >> the >> defendant. Damages take various forms: physical harm, emotional harm, >> loss >> wages, etc. Here as Scott said, the legislature has decided to make such >> civil rights violations compensable as damages. It is a legal recognition >> that a harm was caused, and it was caused to the plaintiff. The harm here >> was violations of federal and State civil rights. >> I hope that helps. >> >> Rod Alcidonis >> Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009. >> Roger Williams University School of Law >> 10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 >> Bristol, RI 02809 >> Cell: 718-704-4651 >> Home: 401-824-8685 >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Steve P. Deeley" >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 9:20 PM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target >> >> >>> Well, sign me up. There are dozens of Web sites a year that I can't >>> access. This is just ridiculous. This is, exactly, what raises the cost >>> of doing business for companies. I'm not condoning Target's continuing >>> unwillingness to deal with their inaccessible >>> web site, however, there is no way that an individual is damaged to the >>> tune of $4,000.00. >>> Steve >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Mehgan Sidhu" >>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>> Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 5:02 PM >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target >>> >>> >>>> Steve, >>>> >>>> In addition to the ADA claim, the lawsuit was brought under >>>> California's >>>> Unruh Act and Disabled Person's Act, both of which provide for minimum >>>> statutory damages ($4,000 and $1,000 per violation, respectively). >>>> Under >>>> the agreement, members of the California class who are legally blind, >>>> had >>>> attempted to use Target.com between February 7, 2003 and December 9, >>>> 2008, and experienced significant barriers were eligible for damages of >>>> up to $3,500 per violation for a maximum of 2 violations. >>>> >>>> A copy of the settlement is available at the following site: >>>> http://www.nfbtargetlawsuit.com/final_settlement.html >>>> >>>> Mehgan Sidhu >>>> Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP >>>> 120 East Baltimore Street, Suite 1700 >>>> Baltimore, Maryland 21202 >>>> 410-962-1030 x1324 >>>> 410-385-0869 (fax) >>>> ms at browngold.com >>>> www.browngold.com >>>> >>>> Confidentiality Notice >>>> >>>> This e-mail may contain confidential information that may also be >>>> legally >>>> privileged and that is intended only for the use of the addressee(s) >>>> named above. If you are not the intended recipient or an authorized >>>> agent of the recipient, please be advised that any dissemination or >>>> copying of this e-mail, or taking of any action in reliance on the >>>> information contained herein, is strictly prohibited. If you have >>>> received this e-mail in error, please notify me immediately by use of >>>> the >>>> reply button, and then delete the e-mail from your system. Thank you! >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>> On >>>> Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley >>>> Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 4:31 PM >>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target >>>> >>>> This is ridiculous! How were these people damaged? >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Mehgan Sidhu" >>>> To: >>>> Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 3:20 PM >>>> Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target >>>> >>>> >>>>> To answer the recent questions posted about the Target case, the final >>>>> settlement hearing took place on March 9th. I understand from our >>>>> counsel >>>>> in California, Larry Paradis of DRA and Josh Konecky, that there were >>>>> no >>>>> objectors and the Judge was pleased with the resolution of the case. >>>>> The >>>>> settlement is not fully "final" until the time for any appeals has >>>>> run - >>>>> which is about 30 days. Given there were no objectors, it is highly >>>>> unlikely that any appeals will be filed. The judge has not yet made a >>>>> ruling on attorneys fees, but that will not hold up enforcement of the >>>>> settlement. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> As for disbursements, assuming there are no appeals, the claims >>>>> administer >>>>> has 45 days from the final approval date to disburse funds to >>>>> claimants. >>>>> I do not know the final tally of approved claimants, though I think >>>>> there >>>>> were several hundred. I will pass that information along when I have >>>>> it. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> We will now be working on enforcing the settlement commitments that >>>>> Target >>>>> made with respect to the accessibility of the website. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Mehgan Sidhu >>>>> Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP >>>>> 120 East Baltimore Street, Suite 1700 >>>>> Baltimore, Maryland 21202 >>>>> 410-962-1030 x1324 >>>>> 410-385-0869 (fax) >>>>> ms at browngold.com >>>>> www.browngold.com >>>>> >>>>> Confidentiality Notice >>>>> >>>>> This e-mail may contain confidential information that may also be >>>>> legally >>>>> privileged and that is intended only for the use of the addressee(s) >>>>> named >>>>> above. If you are not the intended recipient or an authorized agent >>>>> of >>>>> the recipient, please be advised that any dissemination or copying of >>>>> this >>>>> e-mail, or taking of any action in reliance on the information >>>>> contained >>>>> herein, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in >>>>> error, please notify me immediately by use of the reply button, and >>>>> then >>>>> delete the e-mail from your system. Thank you! >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> blindlaw: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com >>>> >>>> >>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>>> Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release Date: >>>> 03/13/09 >>>> 05:59:00 >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ms%40browngold.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com >>> >>> >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> >>> >>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>> Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release Date: >>> 03/13/09 >>> 05:59:00 >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail.com >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release Date: 03/13/09 > 05:59:00 > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net From timandvickie at hotmail.com Sun Mar 15 01:43:33 2009 From: timandvickie at hotmail.com (Tim Shaw) Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 01:43:33 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target In-Reply-To: <572950BB1C7A4653B86DA42CA429C608@spike> References: <549FC55C53E54BA5814FA71C231CE71F@StevePC> <03B8D4FE14404DA090F70CC5A0D9949B@StevePC> <572950BB1C7A4653B86DA42CA429C608@spike> Message-ID: yes, they could go an pass a limit that is way to low like they have in Texas for medical malpractice in Texas. They have set such a hard maximum for such medical cases in Texas that it is had to find a lawyer here anymore that will do malpractice cases anymore because the amount received wont even cover the legal fees > From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net > To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org > Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 17:14:14 -0700 > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > part of the issue here is that damages awarded to punish businesses for this > type of inappropriate behavior. it is used as a deterrent to insure that > businesses are made to follow the laws and take civil rights issues > seriously. It is the same principle that courts use for assessing fines for > drunk driving and other offenses. In order to bring about change you need to > affect an individual or a business in a way that is effective and awarding > damages is one of the best ways possible. It has become a sound principal of > law and has been upheld in many court tests both in civil and criminal > cases. > Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal > 1237 P Street > Fresno ca 93721 > 559-266-9237 > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Steve P. Deeley" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 6:25 AM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > > >I want someone to show me how this results in damages of this magnitude. > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Rod Alcidonis" > > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > > Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 12:24 AM > > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > > > > >> Steve: > >> > >> If you are not an attorney or a law student, we may be arguing and > >> understanding different concepts here. "Damage" is a legal concept, and > >> if > >> not used in that sense can certainly lead to ridiculous understanding. A > >> damage award allows a plaintiff to be compensated for the harm caused by > >> the > >> defendant. Damages take various forms: physical harm, emotional harm, > >> loss > >> wages, etc. Here as Scott said, the legislature has decided to make such > >> civil rights violations compensable as damages. It is a legal recognition > >> that a harm was caused, and it was caused to the plaintiff. The harm here > >> was violations of federal and State civil rights. > >> I hope that helps. > >> > >> Rod Alcidonis > >> Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009. > >> Roger Williams University School of Law > >> 10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 > >> Bristol, RI 02809 > >> Cell: 718-704-4651 > >> Home: 401-824-8685 > >> > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "Steve P. Deeley" > >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > >> Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 9:20 PM > >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > >> > >> > >>> Well, sign me up. There are dozens of Web sites a year that I can't > >>> access. This is just ridiculous. This is, exactly, what raises the cost > >>> of doing business for companies. I'm not condoning Target's continuing > >>> unwillingness to deal with their inaccessible > >>> web site, however, there is no way that an individual is damaged to the > >>> tune of $4,000.00. > >>> Steve > >>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>> From: "Mehgan Sidhu" > >>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > >>> Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 5:02 PM > >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > >>> > >>> > >>>> Steve, > >>>> > >>>> In addition to the ADA claim, the lawsuit was brought under > >>>> California's > >>>> Unruh Act and Disabled Person's Act, both of which provide for minimum > >>>> statutory damages ($4,000 and $1,000 per violation, respectively). > >>>> Under > >>>> the agreement, members of the California class who are legally blind, > >>>> had > >>>> attempted to use Target.com between February 7, 2003 and December 9, > >>>> 2008, and experienced significant barriers were eligible for damages of > >>>> up to $3,500 per violation for a maximum of 2 violations. > >>>> > >>>> A copy of the settlement is available at the following site: > >>>> http://www.nfbtargetlawsuit.com/final_settlement.html > >>>> > >>>> Mehgan Sidhu > >>>> Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP > >>>> 120 East Baltimore Street, Suite 1700 > >>>> Baltimore, Maryland 21202 > >>>> 410-962-1030 x1324 > >>>> 410-385-0869 (fax) > >>>> ms at browngold.com > >>>> www.browngold.com > >>>> > >>>> Confidentiality Notice > >>>> > >>>> This e-mail may contain confidential information that may also be > >>>> legally > >>>> privileged and that is intended only for the use of the addressee(s) > >>>> named above. If you are not the intended recipient or an authorized > >>>> agent of the recipient, please be advised that any dissemination or > >>>> copying of this e-mail, or taking of any action in reliance on the > >>>> information contained herein, is strictly prohibited. If you have > >>>> received this e-mail in error, please notify me immediately by use of > >>>> the > >>>> reply button, and then delete the e-mail from your system. Thank you! > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] > >>>> On > >>>> Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley > >>>> Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 4:31 PM > >>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > >>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > >>>> > >>>> This is ridiculous! How were these people damaged? > >>>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>>> From: "Mehgan Sidhu" > >>>> To: > >>>> Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 3:20 PM > >>>> Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>> To answer the recent questions posted about the Target case, the final > >>>>> settlement hearing took place on March 9th. I understand from our > >>>>> counsel > >>>>> in California, Larry Paradis of DRA and Josh Konecky, that there were > >>>>> no > >>>>> objectors and the Judge was pleased with the resolution of the case. > >>>>> The > >>>>> settlement is not fully "final" until the time for any appeals has > >>>>> run - > >>>>> which is about 30 days. Given there were no objectors, it is highly > >>>>> unlikely that any appeals will be filed. The judge has not yet made a > >>>>> ruling on attorneys fees, but that will not hold up enforcement of the > >>>>> settlement. > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> As for disbursements, assuming there are no appeals, the claims > >>>>> administer > >>>>> has 45 days from the final approval date to disburse funds to > >>>>> claimants. > >>>>> I do not know the final tally of approved claimants, though I think > >>>>> there > >>>>> were several hundred. I will pass that information along when I have > >>>>> it. > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> We will now be working on enforcing the settlement commitments that > >>>>> Target > >>>>> made with respect to the accessibility of the website. > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> Mehgan Sidhu > >>>>> Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP > >>>>> 120 East Baltimore Street, Suite 1700 > >>>>> Baltimore, Maryland 21202 > >>>>> 410-962-1030 x1324 > >>>>> 410-385-0869 (fax) > >>>>> ms at browngold.com > >>>>> www.browngold.com > >>>>> > >>>>> Confidentiality Notice > >>>>> > >>>>> This e-mail may contain confidential information that may also be > >>>>> legally > >>>>> privileged and that is intended only for the use of the addressee(s) > >>>>> named > >>>>> above. If you are not the intended recipient or an authorized agent > >>>>> of > >>>>> the recipient, please be advised that any dissemination or copying of > >>>>> this > >>>>> e-mail, or taking of any action in reliance on the information > >>>>> contained > >>>>> herein, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in > >>>>> error, please notify me immediately by use of the reply button, and > >>>>> then > >>>>> delete the e-mail from your system. Thank you! > >>>>> > >>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>> blindlaw mailing list > >>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>>>> blindlaw: > >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> No virus found in this incoming message. > >>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > >>>> Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release Date: > >>>> 03/13/09 > >>>> 05:59:00 > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> blindlaw mailing list > >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>>> blindlaw: > >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ms%40browngold.com > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> blindlaw mailing list > >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>>> blindlaw: > >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com > >>> > >>> > >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> No virus found in this incoming message. > >>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > >>> Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release Date: > >>> 03/13/09 > >>> 05:59:00 > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> blindlaw mailing list > >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>> blindlaw: > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail.com > >>> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> blindlaw mailing list > >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> blindlaw: > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > > Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release Date: 03/13/09 > > 05:59:00 > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > blindlaw mailing list > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/timandvickie%40hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail® is up to 70% faster. Now good news travels really fast. http://windowslive.com/online/hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_70faster_032009 From slabarre at labarrelaw.com Sun Mar 15 02:19:25 2009 From: slabarre at labarrelaw.com (Scott C. LaBarre) Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 20:19:25 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target References: Message-ID: <7DF12D30A7294ADEAA75754CE0751C02@labarre> The standards used are those of WCAG and Sec. 508. I did not work directly on Target and cannot tell you exactly the access barriers. I can tell you that with respect to filing applications to law schools through LSAC on their website, it is impossible to fill those applications out independently using screen reading softaware. Let me also assure list members that we don't simply jump on a website, encounter difficulty, and then sue them the next day. A lawsuit is the last resort when the entity is not willing to deal with us otherwise. Just because we are a small minority does not mean that our right to the mainstream of society must always be subservient to the majority's unwillingness to consider us due to our small numbers. Unless someone has a new point to be made on this topic, I respectfully suggest that we move onto different discussions. Let's also agree to disagree on certain points. Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. LaBarre Law Offices P.C. 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 Denver, Colorado 80222 303 504-5979 (voice) 303 757-3640 (fax) slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) www.labarrelaw.com (website) CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Orozco" To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 8:52 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target What troubles me is that my question of accessibility standards has not been answered on the other case against the LSAC. The same question is applicable here. What standard was used to conclude that the web site was not accessible? I do not claim to be a genius at manipulating technology to serve my needs, but I did not have to try hard at all to make Target give me what I needed between 2005 and 2008. So is the problem the web site layout, or is it our own technology training? Rather than chase every entity with features a few people deem inaccessible, would it not be prudent to take our standards, whatever those may be, to the classroom, to the software developers, the relevant associations raising the performance standards of its students and members? This method of engineering change gives us the perception of a watchdog group. If this is what we have become, and given the small margin of the population we represent, I would rather trigger change at the source rather than at the output. Joe Orozco "A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the crowd."--Max Lucado -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 9:24 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target That should not result in you receiving damages of almost $4,000.00. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 4:35 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target As an individual I am insulted and damaged each time I am discriminated by a business not accommodating my ability to access their products and services, especially on the Internet when I have made sure that I have accommodated myself with the most up-to-date software to mitigate my needs as a blind person. I should not have to rely on sighted assistance to use a product or do without because the greedy corporations has chosen the most expedient road to sell their products. I am also insulted that you are posting this question. I have in my life time been sold out by too many blind people that thought they knew what I needed and I hope more companies will have to pay damages in these types of cases. Perhaps they will then learn how to meet the needs of all their customers. Fortunately here in California we have some laws with some teeth in them that are enforceable--although these teeth still need a good sharpening. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. Deeley" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 6:22 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target That is a lawyer talking who makes his living in rediculous situations like this one. Again, you show me how an individual was damaged and out $4,000.00. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott C. LaBarre" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 5:38 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target Violation of civil rights has long been recognized as a form of compensible legal damage as well it should be. Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. LaBarre Law Offices P.C. 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 Denver, Colorado 80222 303 504-5979 (voice) 303 757-3640 (fax) slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) www.labarrelaw.com (website) CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. Deeley" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 2:31 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > This is ridiculous! How were these people damaged? > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mehgan Sidhu" > To: > Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 3:20 PM > Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > >> To answer the recent questions posted about the Target case, the final >> settlement hearing took place on March 9th. I understand from our >> counsel in California, Larry Paradis of DRA and Josh Konecky, that there >> were no objectors and the Judge was pleased with the resolution of the >> case. The settlement is not fully "final" until the time for any >> appeals has run - which is about 30 days. Given there were no objectors, >> it is highly unlikely that any appeals will be filed. The judge has not >> yet made a ruling on attorneys fees, but that will not hold up >> enforcement of the settlement. >> >> >> >> As for disbursements, assuming there are no appeals, the claims >> administer has 45 days from the final approval date to disburse funds to >> claimants. I do not know the final tally of approved claimants, though I >> think there were several hundred. I will pass that information along >> when I have it. >> >> >> >> We will now be working on enforcing the settlement commitments that >> Target made with respect to the accessibility of the website. >> >> >> Mehgan Sidhu >> Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP >> 120 East Baltimore Street, Suite 1700 >> Baltimore, Maryland 21202 >> 410-962-1030 x1324 >> 410-385-0869 (fax) >> ms at browngold.com >> www.browngold.com >> >> Confidentiality Notice >> >> This e-mail may contain confidential information that may also be legally >> privileged and that is intended only for the use of the addressee(s) >> named above. If you are not the intended recipient or an authorized >> agent of the recipient, please be advised that any dissemination or >> copying of this e-mail, or taking of any action in reliance on the >> information contained herein, is strictly prohibited. If you have >> received this e-mail in error, please notify me immediately by use of the >> reply button, and then delete the e-mail from your system. Thank you! >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep .deeley%40insightbb.com > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release Date: 03/13/09 > 05:59:00 > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/slabar re%40labarrelaw.com > _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep .deeley%40insightbb.com ---------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release Date: 03/13/09 05:59:00 _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugm an%40sbcglobal.net _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep .deeley%40insightbb.com ---------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release Date: 03/13/09 05:59:00 _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jsoroz co%40gmail.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3936 (20090313) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3936 (20090313) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/slabarre%40labarrelaw.com From slabarre at labarrelaw.com Sun Mar 15 02:21:12 2009 From: slabarre at labarrelaw.com (Scott C. LaBarre) Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 20:21:12 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target References: <549FC55C53E54BA5814FA71C231CE71F@StevePC><001301c9a442$63a1e180$6401a8c0@server> <588EC588BDA14F18B7560ACF4C83829B@StevePC> Message-ID: No, in fact. The law does not generally recognize compensatory damages in this type of claim. Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. LaBarre Law Offices P.C. 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 Denver, Colorado 80222 303 504-5979 (voice) 303 757-3640 (fax) slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) www.labarrelaw.com (website) CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. Deeley" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 7:26 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > I'm quite certain there was psychological damage as well, right??? > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Dennis Clark" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 9:15 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > >> They were damaged in that they were not able to place orders on Targets >> website using screen readers. As a result you would have to make >> purchases >> on the Target website using sighted assistance, likely paid assistance, >> or >> you would have to go to a Target store. If retailers like Target do not >> wish to make their websites available to all people, all they need to do >> is >> take the website down, and we can all go to the store in person to make >> our >> purchases. >> All the best, >> Dennis >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Steve P. Deeley" >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 1:31 PM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target >> >> >>> This is ridiculous! How were these people damaged? >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Mehgan Sidhu" >>> To: >>> Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 3:20 PM >>> Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target >>> >>> >>>> To answer the recent questions posted about the Target case, the final >>>> settlement hearing took place on March 9th. I understand from our >>>> counsel in California, Larry Paradis of DRA and Josh Konecky, that >>>> there >>>> were no objectors and the Judge was pleased with the resolution of the >>>> case. The settlement is not fully "final" until the time for any >>>> appeals has run - which is about 30 days. Given there were no >>>> objectors, >>>> it is highly unlikely that any appeals will be filed. The judge has >>>> not >>>> yet made a ruling on attorneys fees, but that will not hold up >>>> enforcement of the settlement. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> As for disbursements, assuming there are no appeals, the claims >>>> administer has 45 days from the final approval date to disburse funds >>>> to >>>> claimants. I do not know the final tally of approved claimants, though >>>> I >>>> think there were several hundred. I will pass that information along >>>> when I have it. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> We will now be working on enforcing the settlement commitments that >>>> Target made with respect to the accessibility of the website. >>>> >>>> >>>> Mehgan Sidhu >>>> Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP >>>> 120 East Baltimore Street, Suite 1700 >>>> Baltimore, Maryland 21202 >>>> 410-962-1030 x1324 >>>> 410-385-0869 (fax) >>>> ms at browngold.com >>>> www.browngold.com >>>> >>>> Confidentiality Notice >>>> >>>> This e-mail may contain confidential information that may also be >>>> legally >>>> privileged and that is intended only for the use of the addressee(s) >>>> named above. If you are not the intended recipient or an authorized >>>> agent of the recipient, please be advised that any dissemination or >>>> copying of this e-mail, or taking of any action in reliance on the >>>> information contained herein, is strictly prohibited. If you have >>>> received this e-mail in error, please notify me immediately by use of >>>> the >>>> reply button, and then delete the e-mail from your system. Thank you! >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com >>> >>> >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> >>> >>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>> Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release Date: >>> 03/13/09 >>> 05:59:00 >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dennisgclark%40sbcglobal.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release Date: 03/13/09 > 05:59:00 > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/slabarre%40labarrelaw.com > From cjmc404 at gmail.com Sun Mar 15 02:57:29 2009 From: cjmc404 at gmail.com (cory McMahon) Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 21:57:29 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Issues with RSB Message-ID: <65DC2ACEE6424AE2A0C44193D0055127@DDH3MGF1> I am not a member of NFB (I would like to become one), but am wondering if someone might have a good recommendation of an attorney located in St. Louis. I was sent by Nancy Goebel of RSB to who I thought was a qualified individual (Denise Rexroat) to undergo a thorough neuropsychological evaluation. Nancy told me that she was qualified, and that I would be would be working with both of them. However, I learned later that Denise Rexroat was unqualified to administer psychological evaluations and that the only qualification she has is a Master's In Education. Please also be advised that I was informed by Nancy Goebel, Senior VRC that both Dr. Paul Rexroat, PHD. and Denise Rexroat would be conducting the evaluation, however, I learned upon arrival for the evaluation that Dr. Paul Rexroat, PHD. was out-of-town on business. It is also important to note that although a neuropsychological evaluation was paid for, it was not administered. Based upon the results of this evaluation, Nancy believes I'm not employable. In addition, I hired an attorney to represent me at a Fair Hearing that was to be held on 2/17/09. Due to a hospitalization, I was unable to be there. I would like a good, competent attorney to represent me. If anyone has any questions, please contact me at: (314) 603-7949. Thanks, Cory A fair Hearing was set-up to take place on 1/27/09, however, due to poor weather, it was canceled at the request of RSB administrative officials. A hearing was then re-scheduled to take place on 2/17/09. Due to a hospitalization, I was unable to attend. An attourney was sent on my behalf, however. Because of my not being able to attend, RSB officials elected not to have the Fair Hearing. Instead, they elected to meet for an hour andahalf with my attourney, although he never met with me to let me know what it was that they discussed. Please read the information below, and let me know if one of you feel as though you would be able to assist in the upcoming Fair Hearing, whenever it is scheduled to take place: I am not a member of NFB (I would like to become one), but am wondering if someone might have a good recommendation of an attorney located in St. Louis. I was sent by Nancy Goebel of RSB to who I thought was a qualified individual (Denise Rexroat) to undergo a thorough neuropsychological evaluation. Nancy told me that she was qualified, and that I would be would be working with both of them. However, I learned later that Denise Rexroat was unqualified to administer psychological evaluations and that the only qualification she has is a Master's In Education. Please also be advised that I was informed by Nancy Goebel, Senior VRC that both Dr. Paul Rexroat, PHD. and Denise Rexroat would be conducting the evaluation, however, I learned upon arrival for the evaluation that Dr. Paul Rexroat, PHD. was out-of-town on business. It is also important to note that although a neuropsychological evaluation was paid for, it was not administered. Based upon the results of this evaluation, Nancy believes I'm not employable. In addition, I hired an attorney to represent me at a Fair Hearing that was to be held on 2/17/09. Due to a hospitalization, I was unable to be there. I would like a good, competent attorney to represent me. If anyone has any questions, please contact me at: (314) 603-7949. Thanks, Cory Cory McMahon Case Documentation and Evidence for Fair Hearing February 17, 2009 Prior to delving into any of the issues that I will be presenting during this fair hearing, I feel that I need to make a few brief points. First, and foremost, no blame should be placed on Michael Merrick, Assistant Deputy Director at Rehabilitation Services for the Blind, (RSB). He has only been the Assistant Deputy Director for a very short time. All issues center around the way I have been treated by Nancy Goebel, Senior VR Counselor at RSB; Naomi Soule, District Supervisor at RSB; and Mark Laird, Deputy Director of RSB. All communications with Mike have been positive, timely, helpful, and honest. It is unfortunate for Mike that the dirty work (this fair hearing) has been delegated to him by Mark Laird. Now I will address the issues and concerns I have regarding services with Rehabilitation Services for the Blind. NEUROPSYCHOLOGICAL EVALUATION: On July 18, 2008 I agreed to see Dr. Paul Rexroat, Ph.D. For a neuropsychological evaluation as requested by Nancy. I was informed that I would be seeing Dr. Paul Rexroat and his wife, Denise Rexroat who is equally as qualified according to Nancy. On August 8, 2008, I met with Denise Rexroat only, as Dr. Paul Rexroat was out-of-town. I thought it odd that I completed a neuropsychological/psychological evaluation administered by Denise Rexroat, an Administrative Assistant/Secretary. It is my understanding that the WAIS III and the MMPI in particular must be administered by a qualified individual, which Denise obviously is not. In an effort to gather the facts, I requested in writing on August 22, 2008 from Nancy, a copy of the written evaluation and all supporting documentation that she received from Dr. Paul Rexroat. My written request was ignored. Therefore, on September 2, 2008 I requested again in writing from Nancy a copy of all documentation pertaining to the evaluation that was completed on August 8, 2008. On September 3, 2008, I received a telephone call form Dr. Paul Rexroat, who informed me that he had been contact by Nancy Goebel and she had indicated to him that I requested a copy of the documentation form the psychological evaluation. Also, he informed me that: "It is the general rule, (and even I think the legal rule) that a copy of the information you are requesting is not customarily released to clients, as it is confidential in nature". I responded, acknowledging that I understood what he said. He went on to present me with a couple of options. 1.. "Although I will be out-of-town for a few weeks and booked for several weeks after that, I can set-up an appointment with you to go over the report, or 2.. The best thing to do would probably be to contact Nancy Goebel, as she is as equally as qualified as I am to interpret the report and go over it with you. Wouldn't that be the thing to do"? Frustrated, I let him know that I would contact her, which I did immediately after I hung up from talking with him. I inquired of Nancy as to why she contacted Dr. Paul Rexroat, especially since it wasn't him from whom I had requested the documentation. She reported to me that she met with her supervisors (Naomi and Mark), and that they "advised" her to: "Call Dr. Rexroat, advise him as to what Cory is requesting, and see what his thoughts are". I asked her when she" "met with her supervisor", as I was perplexed that it took her two weeks before she followed up on this request. She indicated: " met with them late Friday afternoon (8/29/2008. I asked: "Can we go over the report"? She informed me that "Dr. Rexroat is recommending that you and I set-up a meeting at which to go over the report". I calmly explained to Nancy that Dr. Rexroat instructed me to call her to go over the report, which, even after notification of this instruction, she appeared to still be unwilling to do so. Realizing that she was not going to go over (via phone) the report and/or any other documentation that may have resulted from the psychological evaluation, and also that her and I needed to amend my Individualized Plan of Employment (IPE), I agreed to meet with her (Nancy) on September 18, 2008 at 12:30 PM at her office. In the meantime, however, I contacted the Client Assistance Program (CAP), and received a call back form them on September 9, 2008, during which they began the short application process. I then received a call from Kathryn Koch, Advocacy Specialist and her supervisor, Pat Wheeler on September 16, 2008, during which I learned that they are the advocates that have been assigned to my case. After a discussion with these two advocates, we agreed that it would be advantageous for me to call Nancy and re-schedule our September 18, 2008 meeting, so that CAP had a sufficient amount of time with which to work to obtain my complete RSB case record, including documentation resulting from the psychological evaluation. I was advised to let Nancy know that I opened a CAP case, which I did. She appeared not to be upset at this point, however, that would quickly change days later. She let me know that she would wait for a form from them (CAP), and that the issue had become an administrative matter. Nancy then let me know that she was going to go talk with her supervisor, Naomi Soule. The next two conversations I had with Nancy worth noting were conversations that occurred on September 18, 2008 and September 19, 2008. I contacted her to inquire about items that were being shipped back from Lions World Services for the Blind, LWSB, since I elected not to return to this facility for training, and also to check on a cab trip scheduled for later on that afternoon for which RSB way paying. After discussing those two issues, she informed me that she had a discussion with Naomi Soule and that RSB would like to offer me the opportunity to have cab arrangements made and an appointment set-up for me to meet with Dr. Rexroat to go over the documentation pertaining to the psychological evaluation that his wife, Denise, conducted on August 8, 2008, in Nancy's words: "since he wrote the report. That way if you have any questions, you can have the opportunity to ask him directly". I let her know that I wanted to think about it and would get back with her. I called her back a couple of hours later, at which point I indicated to her that I would like to meet with him. She informed me that due to his schedule, I would be meeting with him on a Tuesday. She reported that he is out-of-town the week of 9/15, so she would need to wait until the week of 9/22 to contact him to inquire as to when he would be available to meet with me. She reported to me that as soon as she found out this information, she would get back in touch with me to advise me of the appointment date/time, as well as the time at which the cab will be picking me up from my apartment to take me to the appointment. Next, Nancy asked: "On another issue, what is the basis for your contacting CAP"? I stated: "I do not feel comfortable commenting on this matter". Her response: "So, in essence you're not going to tell me what the issues are"? My response: "No". She then stated: "Well, since you will not tell me what the issues are that caused you to open up a CAP case, and since we are not currently offering you services at this time, your case has been placed in "Services Interrupted" Status". I said: "OK", and then she reported: "I guess I don't need to stay in touch with you accept to let you know of your appointment with Dr. Rexroat". I said: "OK", and then the conversation was concluded. I met with Dr. Paul Rexroat on October 14, 2008 with Kathryn Koch, my CAP Advocacy Specialist present. Dr. Paul Rexroat reviewed the contents of the evaluation report. I inquired about recommendations and he indicated that he hadn't made any specific recommendations. I didn't believe him, as I have never completed an evaluation where there weren't any recommendations made, especially written reports. Further more, Nancy implied that there were recommendations. Dr. Paul Rexroat provided Kathryn a copy of the written evaluation. I questioned Dr. Paul Rexroat about the qualifications necessary for administering the WAIS III and the MMPI. He became defensive and informed me that a secretary can administer the MMPI. He obviously knew that I was on to him. Evidence: E-mail to Cory from Kathryn containing notes from meeting, dated October 14, 2008, 2:38 PM Dr. Paul Rexroat became concerned about the legalities of the entire situation, as he contacted me by telephone on October 14, 2008 in an effort to feed me a line and to get me off his back. He agreed to mail me a copy of his written evaluation and a two page letter that he had sent to Nancy on August 25, 2008. I believe that his intent was to silence me regarding the legal ramifications of the way he does business with clients and referral sources by giving in and giving me a copy of the report and follow-up letter. Evidence: Psychological Evaluation Report dated August 8, 2008 Evidence: Letter to Nancy from Dr. Paul Rexroat, dated August 25, 2008 Evidence: Copy of envelope containing the above documents with a postmark of October 15, 2008 Needless to say, I was quite shocked by the content of the letter. The recommendations are pretty serious and certainly considered to be drastic measures. It is repulsive to even think that Nancy would attempt to implement any of the suggestions for the following reasons: 1.. Dr. Paul Rexroat wasn't even present during the psychological evaluation 2.. The evaluation was completed by an unqualified individual 3.. Dr. Paul Rexroat hadn't seen me in over five years (age 15 to 21). I have matured greatly since working with him in any capacity at the Missouri School for the Blind 4.. Deception on the part of Dr. Paul Rexroat, Nancy Goebel, Naomi Soule, and Mark Laird 5.. Dr. Paul Rexroat fails to identify any of my strengths in his follow-up letter. Surly, he could have mentioned at least one positive attribute about me in the follow-up letter. 6.. The letter had a tone of hatred towards me Obviously, I am not the only one who is concerned about the qualifications of Denise Rexroat, given that Nancy sent a letter to Dr. Paul Rexroat, Ph.D. and Denise Rexroat, M.Ed. on December 12, 2008 inquiring about their credentials to administer psychological and neuropsychological testing. Evidence: Letter from Nancy to Paul and Denise Rexroat, dated December 12, 2008. It is apparent that Dr. Paul Rexroat was aware of Nancy's hidden agenda for inquiring about credentials, which wasn't for the purpose of updating her vendor resources. Rather, it was to verify the truth. I am confident that she was looking forward to receiving documentation that verified appropriate credentials that she could submit as evidence at this Fair Hearing. However, the written response that she received only further confirms what I believe to be the truth. And that is that Denise lacks the qualifications for test administration. Evidence: Letter to Nancy from Dr. Paul Rexroat, dated December 16, 2008 Initially, I do not believe that Nancy was truly aware of the fact that Denise wasn't qualified to conduct a psychological or neuropsychological evaluation. However, Nancy has a responsibility and an obligation to investigate in an even-handed manner the facts of the matter as an employee of RSB; as a competent Senior VR Counselor; and as a Licensed Social Worker. Inappropriate vendors should not be utilized for the provision of goods or services. The efforts to cover up the facts; failing to confirm the truth of the matter; and the retaliation directed towards me by Nancy, Naomi, and Mark are contrary to ethical behavior of these professionals. I called Dr. Paul Rexroat myself on December 10 , 2008 to request information about credentials of Denise Rexroat. I did not receive the requested documentation. However, I did receive a very nasty and threatening letter from him, dated December 22, 2008. His comments were directed towards Nancy and myself. It is interesting to note that this letter was not carbon copied to Nancy since the contents of it pertained to us both. Maybe he didn't think I would be sharing this letter with her. Evidence: Letter to me from Dr. Paul Rexroat, dated December 22, 2008 Evidence: Copy of envelope containing the above letter with a postmark of December 23, 2008 OTHER ISSUES, CONCERNS, & COMMENTS: COUNSELING WITH AMY PAIS, LPC: I find it interesting that I received counseling from Amy Pais, LPC two-to-three times a week for several months while in training at Lions World Services for the Blind. All of her reports were fairly positive with the exception of her last report. I cannot help but wonder why the change of attitude. Was she disappointed about the loss of income or did Nancy request such a report. Evidence: All counseling reports from Amy Pais, LPC INAPPROPRIATE REFERRAL: I was referred to The Center for Head Injury Services by Nancy without my knowledge. On September 24, 2008, I receive a letter from Dee Wolk, Vocational Tech of The Center for Head Injury Services, thanking me for "choosing The Center for Head Injury Services to provide your vocational services." The letter also states "Your vocational program is scheduled to start on Monday, October 6, 2008." I question the appropriateness of this referral, given that I do not have a head injury. I also believe that the information shared by Nancy far exceeded a "general inquiry" as she states in her narrative dated September 24, 2008. Nancy may not have even bothered to contact me regarding this referral. However, she was carbon-copied on the letter. Nancy's actions are contradictory to informed choice, selection of assessment services, and treatment as an active and full partner in the vocational rehabilitation process as outlined in the Policies and Procedures Related to Choice Throughout the Vocational Rehabilitation Process guidelines in my opinion. Evidence: Letter to me from Dee Wolk, dated September 23, 2008 Evidence: Copy of envelope with September 23, 2008 postmark Evidence: Copy of Policies and Procedures Related to Choice Throughout the Vocational Rehabilitation Process INAPPROPRIATE USE OF E-MAIL: On several occasions, I have been criticized for using e-mail inappropriately, and "e-mailing the world". I use e-mail for the same reason that staff at RSB use it, as a means for maintaining a paper trail through written documentation which cannot easily be disputed. Given the need to request a Fair Hearing, I have no regrets for using e-mail. It should also be noted that Nancy used e-mail inappropriately after case transfer. I did not appreciate the two e-mails that she sent me while I was at Lions World Services for the Blind. Counseling via e-mail is inappropriate. Sending demanding e-mails when just beginning to work with a client is no way to go about establishing rapport. Other individuals at LWSB had access to these e-mails because of being connected to a server. Criticizing the facility that I am attending and bad mouthing the staff of the facility was distasteful. I know for a fact that Mark Laird did not approve of the two e-mails that Nancy sent to me, as I was informed of this by Amy Pais, LPC during counseling. Amy had a telephone conversation with Mark during which the use of e-mail was discussed. Evidence: E-mail to me from Nancy dated June 25, 2008, 3:15 PM Evidence: E-mail to me from Nancy dated June 30, 2008, 12:07 PM Evidence: E-mail to me from Nancy dated July 3, 2008, 4:21 PM Evidence: E-mail from Nancy to Amy dated July 10, 2008, 10:40 AM NAOMI'S OVERALL SNIPPY ATTITUDE: I feel that Naomi has had an extreme dislike for me from May 1, 2008 to the present. On Thursday, May 1, 2008 Penny was informed by Naomi that renting an apartment to me was considered a "conflict of interest". The transfer of my case was not an option; the plan was for me to find alternative housing within a time period of six months. On Wednesday, May 28, 2008 Penny informed me that my case with Rehabilitation Services for the Blind was being transferred to Nancy Goebel, another counselor in the St. Louis South office, per instructions from Naomi. The tone of Naomi's e-mails to me have been snippy. Naomi was rather rude towards Kathryn Koch, my CAP Advocacy Specialist and me. I am of the understanding that Kathryn expressed similar concerns and feelings regarding Naomi's approach with her own supervisor. Naomi's attempt to obtain consent through intimidation is another reason that I sought legal counsel. Evidence: E-mail to me from Kathryn Koch dated December 1, 2008, 11:51 AM (Notes taken at IPE meeting on 11/21/2008 OTHER REASONS WHY I'M NOT CONSENTING TO A PSYCHIATRIC EVALUATION: 1.. I was evaluated every three years while at the Missouri School for the Blind for 10 years 2.. I completed an eight week comprehensive personal and vocational adjustment training program at the Cleveland Sight Center in Cleveland, Ohio during the summer of 2007. 3.. I completed a one month comprehensive personal and vocational adjustment evaluation at Lions World Services for the Blind beginning in January 2008, prior to completing six months of training at this facility. 4.. I saw Dr. Douglas, Psychiatrist several times while in training at LWSB. 5.. I saw Amy Pais, LPC for individual counseling two-to-three times a week while at LWSB. 6.. I completed a neuropsychological evaluation with Denise Rexroat on August 8, 2008 at the request of Nancy Goebel, Senior VR Counselor at RSB. 7.. I am currently under the care of Dr. Habib, Psychiatrist for medication management for major clinical depression. 8.. I am receiving individual counseling through Provident counseling once a week. Given the facts outlined above; leaving no stone unturned; is it, or should it be any surprise as to why I will not consent to any further evaluations by vendors that have been hand-picked by RSB. The emotional damage from Dr. Paul Rexroat's letters; retaliation from RSB personnel who should be supportive; and the general runaround that I have been given has been difficult to comprehend, understand, and dismiss. In less than 10 words, I have been a victim of the system. I feel that my relationship with RSB is one of disrepair. I chose to be represented by Michael Ackerman, Attorney at Law for the purpose of exposing the deception, lies, unethical behavior, lack of professionalism, and total disregard to me as a client by RSB personnel over the past several months. I do not feel that I would be served fairly by RSB from this point forward. Therefore, I am requesting that my Vocational Rehabilitation Case with Rehabilitation Services for the Blind be closed. I am further requesting that I be allowed to retain all equipment that has been purchased for my use. I would like this request to be acknowledged in the closure letter sent by Nancy. I am open to other reasonable solutions for receiving services without further retaliation. However, if other acceptable arrangements cannot be worked out, then I have no choice but to pursue litigation through the appropriate psychological and social work boards which govern Licensed Psychologists and Licensed Social Workers. In addition, I will seek remedy through the Governor's Office. Thanks in advance for your assistance, Cory From cjmc404 at gmail.com Sun Mar 15 03:01:30 2009 From: cjmc404 at gmail.com (cory McMahon) Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 22:01:30 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Gary Wunder's e-mail Message-ID: What is Gary Wunder's e-mail? Thanks, Cory Cory From b.schulz at sbcglobal.net Sun Mar 15 04:09:27 2009 From: b.schulz at sbcglobal.net (Bryan Schulz) Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 23:09:27 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Gary Wunder's e-mail References: Message-ID: <149C88E7CC324738AE84EF044608C1BB@notebook> hi, Gary's email is gwunder at earthlink.net. side note: if you're wanting to get a feel for the nfb, we are having the annual state convention in two weeks at the crown plaza hotel up on north lindbergh. the meat of the convention will be on saturday 3/28/09 from 8:00am to 5:00pm and i will pay for your lunch if you think you want to attend. Bryan Schulz The BEST Solution www.best-acts.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "cory McMahon" To: Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 10:01 PM Subject: [blindlaw] Gary Wunder's e-mail > What is Gary Wunder's e-mail? > > Thanks, > > Cory > Cory > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b.schulz%40sbcglobal.net From cjmc404 at gmail.com Sun Mar 15 04:17:35 2009 From: cjmc404 at gmail.com (cory McMahon) Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 23:17:35 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Gary Wunder's e-mail References: <149C88E7CC324738AE84EF044608C1BB@notebook> Message-ID: Thanks. Cory ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bryan Schulz" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 11:09 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Gary Wunder's e-mail > hi, > > Gary's email is gwunder at earthlink.net. > > side note: > if you're wanting to get a feel for the nfb, we are having the annual > state convention in two weeks at the crown plaza hotel up on north > lindbergh. > the meat of the convention will be on saturday 3/28/09 from 8:00am to > 5:00pm and i will pay for your lunch if you think you want to attend. > > Bryan Schulz > The BEST Solution > www.best-acts.com > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "cory McMahon" > To: > Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 10:01 PM > Subject: [blindlaw] Gary Wunder's e-mail > > >> What is Gary Wunder's e-mail? >> >> Thanks, >> >> Cory >> Cory >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b.schulz%40sbcglobal.net > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cjmc404%40gmail.com From b75205 at gmail.com Sun Mar 15 06:41:24 2009 From: b75205 at gmail.com (James Pepper) Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 01:41:24 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target In-Reply-To: <7DF12D30A7294ADEAA75754CE0751C02@labarre> References: <7DF12D30A7294ADEAA75754CE0751C02@labarre> Message-ID: Scott: What I do not get is why these companies are willing to go to court and spend all this money and put themselves into so much risk, when the solutions to these problems are actually just a matter of rolling up the sleeves and rebuilding the website. For instance I just took a look at the Target website. Right now as I type this it has 940 errors in its HTML code and 109 warnings according to the World Wide Web Consortium which sets the international standards the codes used to write websites. This is appalling! Their CSS errors are 38 errors, and 335 warnings. This means that they are not even up to the international standards for writing code properly. There is no excuse for this! The LSAT is using the wrong program to make their PDF files. They are using a program that fragments the content into such tiny pieces that the text cannot be put back together again. It is all gibberish. But this can be fixed! What I do not get is why this is such a problem for people to make their websites accessible? Why are they willing to fight in court, spend millions of dollars in settlement when the solutions are right in front of them! I am just amazed at the waste! James Pepper On Sat, Mar 14, 2009 at 9:19 PM, Scott C. LaBarre wrote: > The standards used are those of WCAG and Sec. 508. I did not work directly > on Target and cannot tell you exactly the access barriers. I can tell you > that with respect to filing applications to law schools through LSAC on > their website, it is impossible to fill those applications out independently > using screen reading softaware. Let me also assure list members that we > don't simply jump on a website, encounter difficulty, and then sue them the > next day. A lawsuit is the last resort when the entity is not willing to > deal with us otherwise. Just because we are a small minority does not mean > that our right to the mainstream of society must always be subservient to > the majority's unwillingness to consider us due to our small numbers. > Unless someone has a new point to be made on this topic, I respectfully > suggest that we move onto different discussions. Let's also agree to > disagree on certain points. > Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. > > LaBarre Law Offices P.C. > 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 > Denver, Colorado 80222 > 303 504-5979 (voice) > 303 757-3640 (fax) > slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) > www.labarrelaw.com (website) > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and > privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not > read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message > in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or > slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. This > message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic > Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Orozco" > To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" > Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 8:52 AM > > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > > What troubles me is that my question of accessibility standards has not > been > answered on the other case against the LSAC. The same question is > applicable here. What standard was used to conclude that the web site was > not accessible? I do not claim to be a genius at manipulating technology > to > serve my needs, but I did not have to try hard at all to make Target give > me > what I needed between 2005 and 2008. So is the problem the web site > layout, > or is it our own technology training? Rather than chase every entity with > features a few people deem inaccessible, would it not be prudent to take > our > standards, whatever those may be, to the classroom, to the software > developers, the relevant associations raising the performance standards of > its students and members? This method of engineering change gives us the > perception of a watchdog group. If this is what we have become, and given > the small margin of the population we represent, I would rather trigger > change at the source rather than at the output. > > Joe Orozco > > "A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the > crowd."--Max Lucado > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley > Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 9:24 AM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > That should not result in you receiving damages of almost $4,000.00. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 4:35 AM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > > As an individual I am insulted and damaged each time I am > discriminated by a > business not accommodating my ability to access their products > and services, > especially on the Internet when I have made sure that I have > accommodated > myself with the most up-to-date software to mitigate my needs as a blind > person. I should not have to rely on sighted assistance to use > a product or > do without because the greedy corporations has chosen the most expedient > road to sell their products. I am also insulted that you are > posting this > question. I have in my life time been sold out by too many > blind people that > thought they knew what I needed and I hope more companies will > have to pay > damages in these types of cases. Perhaps they will then learn > how to meet > the needs of all their customers. Fortunately here in California we have > some laws with some teeth in them that are > enforceable--although these teeth > still need a good sharpening. > Chuck > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. Deeley" < > stevep.deeley at insightbb.com> > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 6:22 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > > That is a lawyer talking who makes his living in rediculous > situations like > this one. Again, you show me how an individual was damaged and out > $4,000.00. > Steve > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott C. LaBarre" < > slabarre at labarrelaw.com> > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 5:38 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > > Violation of civil rights has long been recognized as a form of > compensible > legal damage as well it should be. > Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. > > LaBarre Law Offices P.C. > 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 > Denver, Colorado 80222 > 303 504-5979 (voice) > 303 757-3640 (fax) > slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) > www.labarrelaw.com (website) > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential > and privileged > information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read, > copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in > error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or > slabarre at labarrelaw.com, > and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and > any attachments > are covered by the Electronic > Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. Deeley" < > stevep.deeley at insightbb.com> > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 2:31 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > > This is ridiculous! How were these people damaged? >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mehgan Sidhu" >> To: >> Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 3:20 PM >> Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target >> >> >> To answer the recent questions posted about the Target case, >>> >> the final > >> settlement hearing took place on March 9th. I understand from our >>> counsel in California, Larry Paradis of DRA and Josh >>> >> Konecky, that there > >> were no objectors and the Judge was pleased with the >>> >> resolution of the > >> case. The settlement is not fully "final" until the time for any >>> appeals has run - which is about 30 days. Given there were >>> >> no objectors, > >> it is highly unlikely that any appeals will be filed. The >>> >> judge has not > >> yet made a ruling on attorneys fees, but that will not hold up >>> enforcement of the settlement. >>> >>> >>> >>> As for disbursements, assuming there are no appeals, the claims >>> administer has 45 days from the final approval date to >>> >> disburse funds to > >> claimants. I do not know the final tally of approved >>> >> claimants, though I > >> think there were several hundred. I will pass that information along >>> when I have it. >>> >>> >>> >>> We will now be working on enforcing the settlement commitments that >>> Target made with respect to the accessibility of the website. >>> >>> >>> Mehgan Sidhu >>> Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP >>> 120 East Baltimore Street, Suite 1700 >>> Baltimore, Maryland 21202 >>> 410-962-1030 x1324 >>> 410-385-0869 (fax) >>> ms at browngold.com >>> www.browngold.com >>> >>> Confidentiality Notice >>> >>> This e-mail may contain confidential information that may >>> >> also be legally > >> privileged and that is intended only for the use of the addressee(s) >>> named above. If you are not the intended recipient or an authorized >>> agent of the recipient, please be advised that any dissemination or >>> copying of this e-mail, or taking of any action in reliance on the >>> information contained herein, is strictly prohibited. If you have >>> received this e-mail in error, please notify me immediately >>> >> by use of the > >> reply button, and then delete the e-mail from your system. >>> >> Thank you! > >> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep > .deeley%40insightbb.com > >> >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------------- > >> >> >> >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release >> > Date: 03/13/09 > >> 05:59:00 >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/slabar > re%40labarrelaw.com > >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep > .deeley%40insightbb.com > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------------- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release > Date: 03/13/09 > 05:59:00 > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugm > an%40sbcglobal.net > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep > .deeley%40insightbb.com > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------------- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release > Date: 03/13/09 > 05:59:00 > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jsoroz > co%40gmail.com > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of > virus signature database 3936 (20090313) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature > database 3936 (20090313) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/slabarre%40labarrelaw.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b75205%40gmail.com > From dandrews at visi.com Sun Mar 15 06:02:14 2009 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 02:02:14 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target In-Reply-To: <3C355AFB1ACB43EEBDBD9356D3EFBF38@StevePC> References: <549FC55C53E54BA5814FA71C231CE71F@StevePC> <489BACB231A24B1494701FE7E81396B8@StevePC> <3C355AFB1ACB43EEBDBD9356D3EFBF38@StevePC> Message-ID: This is off topic, please stop. You may feel the way you do, and that is fine, but it has noting to do with the law and blindness, so is off topic for this list. David Andrews, Moderator At 12:41 PM 3/14/2009, you wrote: >I understand that, however, I just do not agree >with the entire concept of awarding damages in this sort of case. >Steve >----- Original Message ----- From: "Rod Alcidonis" >To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 9:27 AM >Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > > > Steve: > >The effort here was to try to help your understanding and educate your >logic, not to justify the existence of the legal system. I am afraid that >you are still not willing to accept that "damage" as used in the law is a >term of art. Meaning, It has a specific legal definition different from >normal use. It is different when you say that "my bicycle was damaged, for >example. It is a legal recognition that certain harms should be compensated. >In this case, the plaintiffs are being paid not for the fact that they were >physically damage in the normal use of the term, but for violations of their >civil rights. See Denis' e-mail for what the harm was. > >In the bicycle example, if someone were to break your bicycle, you can >receive "damages" as the cost of repair, or replacement of the bicycle. By >the way, you are also entitled to enforce your civil rights if you so choose >and receive damages. > >Not every violations entitle someone to such remedy. When a person cannot >get damages under the law, that person has the option of seeking equitable >relief in the form of an injunction or restraining order against the >defendant. In this case damages was available as a remedy so the plaintiffs >are getting money. They are getting paid because their civil rights were >violated. I hope this further helps inform your comments. > >Take care. > >Rod Alcidonis >Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009. >Roger Williams University School of Law >10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 >Bristol, RI 02809 >Cell: 718-704-4651 >Home: 401-824-8685 > >----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. >Deeley" >To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 9:22 PM >Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > >That is a lawyer talking who makes his living in rediculous situations like >this one. Again, you show me how an individual was damaged and out >$4,000.00. >Steve >----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott C. >LaBarre" >To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 5:38 PM >Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > >Violation of civil rights has long been recognized as a form of compensible >legal damage as well it should be. >Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. > >LaBarre Law Offices P.C. >1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 >Denver, Colorado 80222 >303 504-5979 (voice) >303 757-3640 (fax) >slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) >www.labarrelaw.com (website) > >CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and privileged >information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read, >copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in >error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or slabarre at labarrelaw.com, >and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any attachments >are covered by the Electronic >Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. >----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. >Deeley" >To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 2:31 PM >Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > >>This is ridiculous! How were these people damaged? >>----- Original Message ----- From: "Mehgan Sidhu" >>To: >>Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 3:20 PM >>Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target >> >> >>>To answer the recent questions posted about the Target case, the final >>>settlement hearing took place on March 9th. I understand from our >>>counsel in California, Larry Paradis of DRA and Josh Konecky, that there >>>were no objectors and the Judge was pleased with the resolution of the >>>case. The settlement is not fully "final" until the time for any >>>appeals has run - which is about 30 days. Given there were no objectors, >>>it is highly unlikely that any appeals will be filed. The judge has not >>>yet made a ruling on attorneys fees, but that will not hold up >>>enforcement of the settlement. >>> >>> >>> >>>As for disbursements, assuming there are no appeals, the claims >>>administer has 45 days from the final approval date to disburse funds to >>>claimants. I do not know the final tally of approved claimants, though I >>>think there were several hundred. I will pass that information along >>>when I have it. >>> >>> >>> >>>We will now be working on enforcing the settlement commitments that >>>Target made with respect to the accessibility of the website. >>> >>> >>>Mehgan Sidhu >>>Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP >>>120 East Baltimore Street, Suite 1700 >>>Baltimore, Maryland 21202 >>>410-962-1030 x1324 >>>410-385-0869 (fax) >>>ms at browngold.com >>>www.browngold.com >>> >>>Confidentiality Notice >>> >>>This e-mail may contain confidential information that may also be legally >>>privileged and that is intended only for the use of the addressee(s) >>>named above. If you are not the intended recipient or an authorized >>>agent of the recipient, please be advised that any dissemination or >>>copying of this e-mail, or taking of any action in reliance on the >>>information contained herein, is strictly prohibited. If you have >>>received this e-mail in error, please notify me immediately by use of the >>>reply button, and then delete the e-mail from your system. Thank you! >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>blindlaw mailing list >>>blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>blindlaw: >>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com >> >> >>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> >>No virus found in this incoming message. >>Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release Date: 03/13/09 >>05:59:00 >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>blindlaw mailing list >>blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>blindlaw: >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/slabarre%40labarrelaw.com > > > >_______________________________________________ >blindlaw mailing list >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >blindlaw: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com > > >-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release Date: 03/13/09 >05:59:00 > > >_______________________________________________ >blindlaw mailing list >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >blindlaw: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail.com > > >_______________________________________________ >blindlaw mailing list >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >your account info for blindlaw: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com > > >-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: >270.11.13/2001 - Release Date: 03/14/09 06:54:00 > > >_______________________________________________ >blindlaw mailing list >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >your account info for blindlaw: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40visi.com > From dandrews at visi.com Sun Mar 15 06:11:01 2009 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 02:11:01 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target In-Reply-To: <7DF12D30A7294ADEAA75754CE0751C02@labarre> References: <7DF12D30A7294ADEAA75754CE0751C02@labarre> Message-ID: Scott, Joe etc., The question of the Target site has come up, and Joe says he was able to use it. This very well could be true, as sometimes everything went fine. However, there were instances when the site put up on the screen a "purchase button" that was totally invisible to screen readers. Unless you clicked it, you could not finalize your purchase. It was not used for all purchases, but was for some. I know as it happened to me. Unfortunately I do not live in California. Anyway, if Joe didn't go all the way to making a purchase, or happened not to encounter the invisible button, then he would think the site was accessible. Dave At 10:19 PM 3/14/2009, you wrote: >The standards used are those of WCAG and Sec. >508. I did not work directly on Target and >cannot tell you exactly the access barriers. I >can tell you that with respect to filing >applications to law schools through LSAC on >their website, it is impossible to fill those >applications out independently using screen >reading softaware. Let me also assure list >members that we don't simply jump on a website, >encounter difficulty, and then sue them the next >day. A lawsuit is the last resort when the >entity is not willing to deal with us >otherwise. Just because we are a small minority >does not mean that our right to the mainstream >of society must always be subservient to the >majority's unwillingness to consider us due to >our small numbers. Unless someone has a new >point to be made on this topic, I respectfully >suggest that we move onto different >discussions. Let's also agree to disagree on certain points. >Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. > >LaBarre Law Offices P.C. >1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 >Denver, Colorado 80222 >303 504-5979 (voice) >303 757-3640 (fax) >slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) >www.labarrelaw.com (website) > >CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain >confidential and privileged information. If you >are not the designated recipient, you may not >read, copy, distribute or retain this message. >If you received this message in error, please >notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or >slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete >it from your system. This message and any >attachments are covered by the Electronic >Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. >----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Orozco" >To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 8:52 AM >Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > >What troubles me is that my question of accessibility standards has not been >answered on the other case against the LSAC. The same question is >applicable here. What standard was used to conclude that the web site was >not accessible? I do not claim to be a genius at manipulating technology to >serve my needs, but I did not have to try hard at all to make Target give me >what I needed between 2005 and 2008. So is the problem the web site layout, >or is it our own technology training? Rather than chase every entity with >features a few people deem inaccessible, would it not be prudent to take our >standards, whatever those may be, to the classroom, to the software >developers, the relevant associations raising the performance standards of >its students and members? This method of engineering change gives us the >perception of a watchdog group. If this is what we have become, and given >the small margin of the population we represent, I would rather trigger >change at the source rather than at the output. > >Joe Orozco > >"A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the >crowd."--Max Lucado > >-----Original Message----- >From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >[mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley >Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 9:24 AM >To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > >That should not result in you receiving damages of almost $4,000.00. >----- Original Message ----- >From: >To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 4:35 AM >Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > >As an individual I am insulted and damaged each time I am >discriminated by a >business not accommodating my ability to access their products >and services, >especially on the Internet when I have made sure that I have >accommodated >myself with the most up-to-date software to mitigate my needs as a blind >person. I should not have to rely on sighted assistance to use >a product or >do without because the greedy corporations has chosen the most expedient >road to sell their products. I am also insulted that you are >posting this >question. I have in my life time been sold out by too many >blind people that >thought they knew what I needed and I hope more companies will >have to pay >damages in these types of cases. Perhaps they will then learn >how to meet >the needs of all their customers. Fortunately here in California we have >some laws with some teeth in them that are >enforceable--although these teeth >still need a good sharpening. >Chuck >----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. >Deeley" >To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 6:22 PM >Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > >That is a lawyer talking who makes his living in rediculous >situations like >this one. Again, you show me how an individual was damaged and out >$4,000.00. >Steve >----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott C. >LaBarre" >To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 5:38 PM >Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > >Violation of civil rights has long been recognized as a form of >compensible >legal damage as well it should be. >Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. > >LaBarre Law Offices P.C. >1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 >Denver, Colorado 80222 >303 504-5979 (voice) >303 757-3640 (fax) >slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) >www.labarrelaw.com (website) > >CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential >and privileged >information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read, >copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in >error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or >slabarre at labarrelaw.com, >and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and >any attachments >are covered by the Electronic >Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. >----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. >Deeley" >To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 2:31 PM >Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > >>This is ridiculous! How were these people damaged? >>----- Original Message ----- From: "Mehgan Sidhu" >>To: >>Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 3:20 PM >>Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target >> >> >>>To answer the recent questions posted about the Target case, >the final >>>settlement hearing took place on March 9th. I understand from our >>>counsel in California, Larry Paradis of DRA and Josh >Konecky, that there >>>were no objectors and the Judge was pleased with the >resolution of the >>>case. The settlement is not fully "final" until the time for any >>>appeals has run - which is about 30 days. Given there were >no objectors, >>>it is highly unlikely that any appeals will be filed. The >judge has not >>>yet made a ruling on attorneys fees, but that will not hold up >>>enforcement of the settlement. >>> >>> >>> >>>As for disbursements, assuming there are no appeals, the claims >>>administer has 45 days from the final approval date to >disburse funds to >>>claimants. I do not know the final tally of approved >claimants, though I >>>think there were several hundred. I will pass that information along >>>when I have it. >>> >>> >>> >>>We will now be working on enforcing the settlement commitments that >>>Target made with respect to the accessibility of the website. >>> >>> >>>Mehgan Sidhu >>>Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP >>>120 East Baltimore Street, Suite 1700 >>>Baltimore, Maryland 21202 >>>410-962-1030 x1324 >>>410-385-0869 (fax) >>>ms at browngold.com >>>www.browngold.com >>> >>>Confidentiality Notice >>> >>>This e-mail may contain confidential information that may >also be legally >>>privileged and that is intended only for the use of the addressee(s) >>>named above. If you are not the intended recipient or an authorized >>>agent of the recipient, please be advised that any dissemination or >>>copying of this e-mail, or taking of any action in reliance on the >>>information contained herein, is strictly prohibited. If you have >>>received this e-mail in error, please notify me immediately >by use of the >>>reply button, and then delete the e-mail from your system. >Thank you! >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>blindlaw mailing list >>>blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>blindlaw: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep >.deeley%40insightbb.com >> >> >---------------------------------------------------------------- >---------------- >> >> >> >>No virus found in this incoming message. >>Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release >Date: 03/13/09 >>05:59:00 >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>blindlaw mailing list >>blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>blindlaw: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/slabar >re%40labarrelaw.com > > > >_______________________________________________ >blindlaw mailing list >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >blindlaw: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep >.deeley%40insightbb.com > > >---------------------------------------------------------------- >---------------- > > > >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release >Date: 03/13/09 >05:59:00 > > >_______________________________________________ >blindlaw mailing list >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >blindlaw: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugm >an%40sbcglobal.net > > >_______________________________________________ >blindlaw mailing list >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >blindlaw: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep >.deeley%40insightbb.com > > >---------------------------------------------------------------- >---------------- > > > >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release >Date: 03/13/09 >05:59:00 > > >_______________________________________________ >blindlaw mailing list >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >info for blindlaw: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jsoroz >co%40gmail.com > > >__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of >virus signature database 3936 (20090313) __________ > >The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > >http://www.eset.com > > > >__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature >database 3936 (20090313) __________ > >The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > >http://www.eset.com > > > >_______________________________________________ >blindlaw mailing list >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >your account info for blindlaw: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/slabarre%40labarrelaw.com > > > >_______________________________________________ >blindlaw mailing list >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >your account info for blindlaw: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40visi.com > From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Sun Mar 15 07:17:34 2009 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 00:17:34 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target In-Reply-To: <200903141943.n2EJheii028910@flpi184.prodigy.net> References: <200903141943.n2EJheii028910@flpi184.prodigy.net> Message-ID: <722CF4B2E98C4F3FB9E2BCAABFA98C97@spike> As I recall the problem with the Target sight was the poor labeling of graphics and identification of products that were on special and other such factors. Many of the items were not labeled at all preventing blind users from knowing what was advertised in some spots. In a recent visit to the site I found that the layout was still very confusing and it was hard to find particular items. The use of image maps that are not labeled would not be considered accessible. The standard web accessibility guidelines have been defined and are very clear for web designers to follow. they are readily available at various web sites that address these issues. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "Angie Matney" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 12:14 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > Joe asked: > >>What troubles me is that my question of accessibility standards has not >>been >>answered on the other case against the LSAC. The same question is >>applicable here. What standard was used to conclude that the web site was >>not accessible? I do not claim to be a genius at manipulating technology >>to >>serve my needs, but I did not have to try hard at all to make Target give >>me >>what I needed between 2005 and 2008. > > I can't compare the relative accessibility of the Target site to the LSAC > site because I haven't attempted to shop at Target's site. But the LSAC > site is inaccessible to every person who uses JAWS as their sole means of > accessing the internet. > (At least, this was the case when I applied to law schools in the fall of > 2005.) Perhaps I overestimate my own abilities, but I feel pretty > confident in saying that I can get just about any marginally accessible > site to do what I want. But I could not > apply to law school without the aid of multiple friends who served as > readers. In fall, 2005, the application forms used by LSAC were not > accessible with JAWS. I believe I was able to enter information into the > "general" form, which then > populated each application form with my personal data. But the specific > application forms didn't speak. > > So is the problem the web site layout, >>or is it our own technology training? Rather than chase every entity with >>features a few people deem inaccessible, would it not be prudent to take >>our >>standards, whatever those may be, to the classroom, to the software >>developers, the relevant associations raising the performance standards of >>its students and members? > > Possibly. But on the other hand, why should blind people have to be > especially proficient computer users to access things like a retail web > site? There will always be people who, for whatever reason, do not have > the opportunity to receive the > kind of training you're talking about. There will be others who, > regardless of training, possess less intuition about how to operate a > screen reader in unfamiliar circumstances. I'm not suggesting that web > site developers should assume zero > training on the part of the end user; but relying on extensive training to > guarantee accessibility automatically means some people will be excluded. > > This reminds me of an experience I had a few months back. I was flying to > Boston to visit a friend, and I wanted to reserve window seats. I was > presented with an image map that seemed to give me this opportunity. I > thought about how best to > approach the thing, made an educated guess about what to do, and > successfully reserved the seats I wanted. (The gate agent later happily > informed me that he'd gone ahead and moved me to bulkhead seating because > of my dog. I told him > I wanted my chosen seat. He refused, claiming regs required him to put me > there. Fortunately the flight attendant let me have the seat I'd worked so > hard to reserve. I wish I'd filed a formal complaint about that...But I > digress.) I later heard a > blind friend, who is also quite proficient with access technology, > characterize what I assume was a similar site (possibly even the same > airline site) as inaccessible. I personally don't believe that the fact > that I was able to figure this out makes > the site accessible. A sighted user would not have to work nearly so hard > to reserve a seat on a flight. > > There will always be some people who are intimidated by the internet in > general. These individuals will have trouble accessing the basic features > of many web sites. (My dad is one such person, and he's not blind.) But if > reasonably proficient > blind computer users can't access a site, I think it's perfectly > reasonable to insist on modifications. We don't want an internet that is > only accessible to those of us who have had the most opportunities. > > JMO, > > Angie > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Sun Mar 15 07:52:09 2009 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 00:52:09 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target In-Reply-To: References: <000f01c9a4e2$815a4230$840ec690$@net> Message-ID: those are probably the same questions that they ask all applicants. By asking everyone the same questions the interviewer is protecting himself and the organization for which he is interviewing from potential problems down the road. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Shaw" To: Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 2:59 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target heh the skills of blindness;) i had a job interview to be a rehabilitation teacher for the blind on Thursdfday and all the interview questions were like "what is a goal a blind person might set for themselves" and "what are some things a blind person could use to aide them in their every day living" it was like really are you asking me, a blind person, these questions lol. > From: bspiry at comcast.net > To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org > Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 13:21:49 -0700 > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > I completely agree with Angie's perspective on this. The reality is that > if > a blind person is able to navigate the internet and get to the site of a > retailer, that blind person likely already has a higher skill level with > the > computer, out of simple necessity, than the average sighted person who > simply uses their PC to browse the web, do some shopping and send a few > emails. We will never be free of the necessity to learn the skills of > blindness in order to live "normal" lives, but by God we should not be > required to developed specialized technical and functional skills in order > to use simple services and enjoy privledges when those services and > privledges can be made accessible with limited cost and effort. > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of Angie Matney > Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 12:15 PM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > Joe asked: > > >What troubles me is that my question of accessibility standards has not > been > >answered on the other case against the LSAC. The same question is > >applicable here. What standard was used to conclude that the web site was > >not accessible? I do not claim to be a genius at manipulating technology > to > >serve my needs, but I did not have to try hard at all to make Target give > me > >what I needed between 2005 and 2008. > > I can't compare the relative accessibility of the Target site to the LSAC > site because I haven't attempted to shop at Target's site. But the LSAC > site > is inaccessible to every person who uses JAWS as their sole means of > accessing the internet. > (At least, this was the case when I applied to law schools in the fall of > 2005.) Perhaps I overestimate my own abilities, but I feel pretty > confident > in saying that I can get just about any marginally accessible site to do > what I want. But I could not > apply to law school without the aid of multiple friends who served as > readers. In fall, 2005, the application forms used by LSAC were not > accessible with JAWS. I believe I was able to enter information into the > "general" form, which then > populated each application form with my personal data. But the specific > application forms didn't speak. > > So is the problem the web site layout, > >or is it our own technology training? Rather than chase every entity with > >features a few people deem inaccessible, would it not be prudent to take > our > >standards, whatever those may be, to the classroom, to the software > >developers, the relevant associations raising the performance standards > >of > >its students and members? > > Possibly. But on the other hand, why should blind people have to be > especially proficient computer users to access things like a retail web > site? There will always be people who, for whatever reason, do not have > the > opportunity to receive the > kind of training you're talking about. There will be others who, > regardless > of training, possess less intuition about how to operate a screen reader > in > unfamiliar circumstances. I'm not suggesting that web site developers > should > assume zero > training on the part of the end user; but relying on extensive training to > guarantee accessibility automatically means some people will be excluded. > > This reminds me of an experience I had a few months back. I was flying to > Boston to visit a friend, and I wanted to reserve window seats. I was > presented with an image map that seemed to give me this opportunity. I > thought about how best to > approach the thing, made an educated guess about what to do, and > successfully reserved the seats I wanted. (The gate agent later happily > informed me that he'd gone ahead and moved me to bulkhead seating because > of > my dog. I told him > I wanted my chosen seat. He refused, claiming regs required him to put me > there. Fortunately the flight attendant let me have the seat I'd worked so > hard to reserve. I wish I'd filed a formal complaint about that...But I > digress.) I later heard a > blind friend, who is also quite proficient with access technology, > characterize what I assume was a similar site (possibly even the same > airline site) as inaccessible. I personally don't believe that the fact > that > I was able to figure this out makes > the site accessible. A sighted user would not have to work nearly so hard > to > reserve a seat on a flight. > > There will always be some people who are intimidated by the internet in > general. These individuals will have trouble accessing the basic features > of > many web sites. (My dad is one such person, and he's not blind.) But if > reasonably proficient > blind computer users can't access a site, I think it's perfectly > reasonable > to insist on modifications. We don't want an internet that is only > accessible to those of us who have had the most opportunities. > > JMO, > > Angie > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/bspiry%40comcast.n > et > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/timandvickie%40hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ Express your personality in color! Preview and select themes for Hotmail®. http://www.windowslive-hotmail.com/LearnMore/personalize.aspx?ocid=TXT_MSGTX_WL_HM_express_032009#colortheme _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Sun Mar 15 08:22:27 2009 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 01:22:27 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target In-Reply-To: References: <549FC55C53E54BA5814FA71C231CE71F@StevePC><03B8D4FE14404DA090F70CC5A0D9949B@StevePC> <572950BB1C7A4653B86DA42CA429C608@spike> Message-ID: <9CC2821B33EE42839030603B8B324C82@spike> This is what happens when professional groups like the state medical society have too much influence. There have been similar attempts to do such things in California and our predominantly Democratic legislature has prevented it from happening. Many consumer protection groups are very effective when it comes to lobbying against such draconian measures. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Shaw" To: Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 6:43 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target yes, they could go an pass a limit that is way to low like they have in Texas for medical malpractice in Texas. They have set such a hard maximum for such medical cases in Texas that it is had to find a lawyer here anymore that will do malpractice cases anymore because the amount received wont even cover the legal fees > From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net > To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org > Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 17:14:14 -0700 > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > part of the issue here is that damages awarded to punish businesses for > this > type of inappropriate behavior. it is used as a deterrent to insure that > businesses are made to follow the laws and take civil rights issues > seriously. It is the same principle that courts use for assessing fines > for > drunk driving and other offenses. In order to bring about change you need > to > affect an individual or a business in a way that is effective and awarding > damages is one of the best ways possible. It has become a sound principal > of > law and has been upheld in many court tests both in civil and criminal > cases. > Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal > 1237 P Street > Fresno ca 93721 > 559-266-9237 > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Steve P. Deeley" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 6:25 AM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > > >I want someone to show me how this results in damages of this magnitude. > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Rod Alcidonis" > > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > > Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 12:24 AM > > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > > > > >> Steve: > >> > >> If you are not an attorney or a law student, we may be arguing and > >> understanding different concepts here. "Damage" is a legal concept, and > >> if > >> not used in that sense can certainly lead to ridiculous understanding. > >> A > >> damage award allows a plaintiff to be compensated for the harm caused > >> by > >> the > >> defendant. Damages take various forms: physical harm, emotional harm, > >> loss > >> wages, etc. Here as Scott said, the legislature has decided to make > >> such > >> civil rights violations compensable as damages. It is a legal > >> recognition > >> that a harm was caused, and it was caused to the plaintiff. The harm > >> here > >> was violations of federal and State civil rights. > >> I hope that helps. > >> > >> Rod Alcidonis > >> Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009. > >> Roger Williams University School of Law > >> 10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 > >> Bristol, RI 02809 > >> Cell: 718-704-4651 > >> Home: 401-824-8685 > >> > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "Steve P. Deeley" > >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > >> Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 9:20 PM > >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > >> > >> > >>> Well, sign me up. There are dozens of Web sites a year that I can't > >>> access. This is just ridiculous. This is, exactly, what raises the > >>> cost > >>> of doing business for companies. I'm not condoning Target's continuing > >>> unwillingness to deal with their inaccessible > >>> web site, however, there is no way that an individual is damaged to > >>> the > >>> tune of $4,000.00. > >>> Steve > >>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>> From: "Mehgan Sidhu" > >>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > >>> Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 5:02 PM > >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > >>> > >>> > >>>> Steve, > >>>> > >>>> In addition to the ADA claim, the lawsuit was brought under > >>>> California's > >>>> Unruh Act and Disabled Person's Act, both of which provide for > >>>> minimum > >>>> statutory damages ($4,000 and $1,000 per violation, respectively). > >>>> Under > >>>> the agreement, members of the California class who are legally blind, > >>>> had > >>>> attempted to use Target.com between February 7, 2003 and December 9, > >>>> 2008, and experienced significant barriers were eligible for damages > >>>> of > >>>> up to $3,500 per violation for a maximum of 2 violations. > >>>> > >>>> A copy of the settlement is available at the following site: > >>>> http://www.nfbtargetlawsuit.com/final_settlement.html > >>>> > >>>> Mehgan Sidhu > >>>> Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP > >>>> 120 East Baltimore Street, Suite 1700 > >>>> Baltimore, Maryland 21202 > >>>> 410-962-1030 x1324 > >>>> 410-385-0869 (fax) > >>>> ms at browngold.com > >>>> www.browngold.com > >>>> > >>>> Confidentiality Notice > >>>> > >>>> This e-mail may contain confidential information that may also be > >>>> legally > >>>> privileged and that is intended only for the use of the addressee(s) > >>>> named above. If you are not the intended recipient or an authorized > >>>> agent of the recipient, please be advised that any dissemination or > >>>> copying of this e-mail, or taking of any action in reliance on the > >>>> information contained herein, is strictly prohibited. If you have > >>>> received this e-mail in error, please notify me immediately by use of > >>>> the > >>>> reply button, and then delete the e-mail from your system. Thank you! > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org > >>>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] > >>>> On > >>>> Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley > >>>> Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 4:31 PM > >>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > >>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > >>>> > >>>> This is ridiculous! How were these people damaged? > >>>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>>> From: "Mehgan Sidhu" > >>>> To: > >>>> Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 3:20 PM > >>>> Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>> To answer the recent questions posted about the Target case, the > >>>>> final > >>>>> settlement hearing took place on March 9th. I understand from our > >>>>> counsel > >>>>> in California, Larry Paradis of DRA and Josh Konecky, that there > >>>>> were > >>>>> no > >>>>> objectors and the Judge was pleased with the resolution of the case. > >>>>> The > >>>>> settlement is not fully "final" until the time for any appeals has > >>>>> run - > >>>>> which is about 30 days. Given there were no objectors, it is highly > >>>>> unlikely that any appeals will be filed. The judge has not yet made > >>>>> a > >>>>> ruling on attorneys fees, but that will not hold up enforcement of > >>>>> the > >>>>> settlement. > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> As for disbursements, assuming there are no appeals, the claims > >>>>> administer > >>>>> has 45 days from the final approval date to disburse funds to > >>>>> claimants. > >>>>> I do not know the final tally of approved claimants, though I think > >>>>> there > >>>>> were several hundred. I will pass that information along when I have > >>>>> it. > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> We will now be working on enforcing the settlement commitments that > >>>>> Target > >>>>> made with respect to the accessibility of the website. > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> Mehgan Sidhu > >>>>> Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP > >>>>> 120 East Baltimore Street, Suite 1700 > >>>>> Baltimore, Maryland 21202 > >>>>> 410-962-1030 x1324 > >>>>> 410-385-0869 (fax) > >>>>> ms at browngold.com > >>>>> www.browngold.com > >>>>> > >>>>> Confidentiality Notice > >>>>> > >>>>> This e-mail may contain confidential information that may also be > >>>>> legally > >>>>> privileged and that is intended only for the use of the addressee(s) > >>>>> named > >>>>> above. If you are not the intended recipient or an authorized agent > >>>>> of > >>>>> the recipient, please be advised that any dissemination or copying > >>>>> of > >>>>> this > >>>>> e-mail, or taking of any action in reliance on the information > >>>>> contained > >>>>> herein, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in > >>>>> error, please notify me immediately by use of the reply button, and > >>>>> then > >>>>> delete the e-mail from your system. Thank you! > >>>>> > >>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>> blindlaw mailing list > >>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > >>>>> for > >>>>> blindlaw: > >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> No virus found in this incoming message. > >>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > >>>> Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release Date: > >>>> 03/13/09 > >>>> 05:59:00 > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> blindlaw mailing list > >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>>> blindlaw: > >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ms%40browngold.com > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> blindlaw mailing list > >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>>> blindlaw: > >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com > >>> > >>> > >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> No virus found in this incoming message. > >>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > >>> Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release Date: > >>> 03/13/09 > >>> 05:59:00 > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> blindlaw mailing list > >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>> blindlaw: > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail.com > >>> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> blindlaw mailing list > >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> blindlaw: > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > > Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release Date: > > 03/13/09 > > 05:59:00 > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > blindlaw mailing list > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/timandvickie%40hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail® is up to 70% faster. Now good news travels really fast. http://windowslive.com/online/hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_70faster_032009 _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net From angie at mpmail.net Sun Mar 15 10:41:05 2009 From: angie at mpmail.net (Angie Matney) Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 06:41:05 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] LSAC Reader Settlement In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Did LSAC ever put anything up on their site concerning their reader policy? If memory serves, you had to request that this info be sent to you when I was applying. Angie From roddj12 at hotmail.com Sun Mar 15 14:02:00 2009 From: roddj12 at hotmail.com (Rod Alcidonis) Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 10:02:00 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] LSAC Reader Settlement References: Message-ID: I only hope that for that reason, Angie, that any settlement with them this time has more teeth. Otherwise, we will be in the same place 5-10 years down the road. The LSAC has demonstrated times and again that they are not an entity willing to abide by legal obligations. Not only in not publishing their reader policy to test takers but in granting other accommodations -- where there is no standard to guide the process. I had accommodations that were granted to me because of blindness and denied to others also because of blindness. Rod Alcidonis Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009. Roger Williams University School of Law 10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 Bristol, RI 02809 Cell: 718-704-4651 Home: 401-824-8685 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Angie Matney" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 6:41 AM Subject: [blindlaw] LSAC Reader Settlement > Did LSAC ever put anything up on their site concerning their reader > policy? If memory serves, you had to request that this info be sent to you > when I was applying. > > Angie > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail.com > From joramsey at cox.net Sun Mar 15 15:25:28 2009 From: joramsey at cox.net (John ) Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 11:25:28 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] LSAC Reader Settlement In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <065953B7C3D24C20A70FFCC439750369@noneeb869fea9a> I remember having to call and inquire about the reader policy as well. Fortunately I did not have any granting of accommodation issues, but they were very secretive about the things they would and would not provide. Finally, like Rod, I know people who have been denied lesser accommodations than I was granted and they are blind too. It is a rather strange dilemma in dealing with LSAC. John A. Ramsey Jr., Esq. Gainesville, FL 32609 Phone: (352) 505-6642 -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Rod Alcidonis Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 10:02 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAC Reader Settlement I only hope that for that reason, Angie, that any settlement with them this time has more teeth. Otherwise, we will be in the same place 5-10 years down the road. The LSAC has demonstrated times and again that they are not an entity willing to abide by legal obligations. Not only in not publishing their reader policy to test takers but in granting other accommodations -- where there is no standard to guide the process. I had accommodations that were granted to me because of blindness and denied to others also because of blindness. Rod Alcidonis Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009. Roger Williams University School of Law 10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 Bristol, RI 02809 Cell: 718-704-4651 Home: 401-824-8685 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Angie Matney" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 6:41 AM Subject: [blindlaw] LSAC Reader Settlement > Did LSAC ever put anything up on their site concerning their reader > policy? If memory serves, you had to request that this info be sent to you > when I was applying. > > Angie > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail. com > _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joramsey%40cox.net From bspiry at comcast.net Sun Mar 15 15:44:00 2009 From: bspiry at comcast.net (Bill Spiry) Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 08:44:00 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target In-Reply-To: References: <7DF12D30A7294ADEAA75754CE0751C02@labarre> Message-ID: <000401c9a584$dca448f0$95ecdad0$@net> The world is unfortunately full of slow learners. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of James Pepper Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 11:41 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target Scott: What I do not get is why these companies are willing to go to court and spend all this money and put themselves into so much risk, when the solutions to these problems are actually just a matter of rolling up the sleeves and rebuilding the website. For instance I just took a look at the Target website. Right now as I type this it has 940 errors in its HTML code and 109 warnings according to the World Wide Web Consortium which sets the international standards the codes used to write websites. This is appalling! Their CSS errors are 38 errors, and 335 warnings. This means that they are not even up to the international standards for writing code properly. There is no excuse for this! The LSAT is using the wrong program to make their PDF files. They are using a program that fragments the content into such tiny pieces that the text cannot be put back together again. It is all gibberish. But this can be fixed! What I do not get is why this is such a problem for people to make their websites accessible? Why are they willing to fight in court, spend millions of dollars in settlement when the solutions are right in front of them! I am just amazed at the waste! James Pepper On Sat, Mar 14, 2009 at 9:19 PM, Scott C. LaBarre wrote: > The standards used are those of WCAG and Sec. 508. I did not work directly > on Target and cannot tell you exactly the access barriers. I can tell you > that with respect to filing applications to law schools through LSAC on > their website, it is impossible to fill those applications out independently > using screen reading softaware. Let me also assure list members that we > don't simply jump on a website, encounter difficulty, and then sue them the > next day. A lawsuit is the last resort when the entity is not willing to > deal with us otherwise. Just because we are a small minority does not mean > that our right to the mainstream of society must always be subservient to > the majority's unwillingness to consider us due to our small numbers. > Unless someone has a new point to be made on this topic, I respectfully > suggest that we move onto different discussions. Let's also agree to > disagree on certain points. > Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. > > LaBarre Law Offices P.C. > 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 > Denver, Colorado 80222 > 303 504-5979 (voice) > 303 757-3640 (fax) > slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) > www.labarrelaw.com (website) > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and > privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not > read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message > in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or > slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. This > message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic > Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Orozco" > To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" > Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 8:52 AM > > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > > What troubles me is that my question of accessibility standards has not > been > answered on the other case against the LSAC. The same question is > applicable here. What standard was used to conclude that the web site was > not accessible? I do not claim to be a genius at manipulating technology > to > serve my needs, but I did not have to try hard at all to make Target give > me > what I needed between 2005 and 2008. So is the problem the web site > layout, > or is it our own technology training? Rather than chase every entity with > features a few people deem inaccessible, would it not be prudent to take > our > standards, whatever those may be, to the classroom, to the software > developers, the relevant associations raising the performance standards of > its students and members? This method of engineering change gives us the > perception of a watchdog group. If this is what we have become, and given > the small margin of the population we represent, I would rather trigger > change at the source rather than at the output. > > Joe Orozco > > "A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the > crowd."--Max Lucado > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley > Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 9:24 AM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > That should not result in you receiving damages of almost $4,000.00. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 4:35 AM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > > As an individual I am insulted and damaged each time I am > discriminated by a > business not accommodating my ability to access their products > and services, > especially on the Internet when I have made sure that I have > accommodated > myself with the most up-to-date software to mitigate my needs as a blind > person. I should not have to rely on sighted assistance to use > a product or > do without because the greedy corporations has chosen the most expedient > road to sell their products. I am also insulted that you are > posting this > question. I have in my life time been sold out by too many > blind people that > thought they knew what I needed and I hope more companies will > have to pay > damages in these types of cases. Perhaps they will then learn > how to meet > the needs of all their customers. Fortunately here in California we have > some laws with some teeth in them that are > enforceable--although these teeth > still need a good sharpening. > Chuck > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. Deeley" < > stevep.deeley at insightbb.com> > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 6:22 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > > That is a lawyer talking who makes his living in rediculous > situations like > this one. Again, you show me how an individual was damaged and out > $4,000.00. > Steve > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott C. LaBarre" < > slabarre at labarrelaw.com> > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 5:38 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > > Violation of civil rights has long been recognized as a form of > compensible > legal damage as well it should be. > Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. > > LaBarre Law Offices P.C. > 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 > Denver, Colorado 80222 > 303 504-5979 (voice) > 303 757-3640 (fax) > slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) > www.labarrelaw.com (website) > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential > and privileged > information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read, > copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in > error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or > slabarre at labarrelaw.com, > and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and > any attachments > are covered by the Electronic > Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. Deeley" < > stevep.deeley at insightbb.com> > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 2:31 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > > This is ridiculous! How were these people damaged? >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mehgan Sidhu" >> To: >> Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 3:20 PM >> Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target >> >> >> To answer the recent questions posted about the Target case, >>> >> the final > >> settlement hearing took place on March 9th. I understand from our >>> counsel in California, Larry Paradis of DRA and Josh >>> >> Konecky, that there > >> were no objectors and the Judge was pleased with the >>> >> resolution of the > >> case. The settlement is not fully "final" until the time for any >>> appeals has run - which is about 30 days. Given there were >>> >> no objectors, > >> it is highly unlikely that any appeals will be filed. The >>> >> judge has not > >> yet made a ruling on attorneys fees, but that will not hold up >>> enforcement of the settlement. >>> >>> >>> >>> As for disbursements, assuming there are no appeals, the claims >>> administer has 45 days from the final approval date to >>> >> disburse funds to > >> claimants. I do not know the final tally of approved >>> >> claimants, though I > >> think there were several hundred. I will pass that information along >>> when I have it. >>> >>> >>> >>> We will now be working on enforcing the settlement commitments that >>> Target made with respect to the accessibility of the website. >>> >>> >>> Mehgan Sidhu >>> Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP >>> 120 East Baltimore Street, Suite 1700 >>> Baltimore, Maryland 21202 >>> 410-962-1030 x1324 >>> 410-385-0869 (fax) >>> ms at browngold.com >>> www.browngold.com >>> >>> Confidentiality Notice >>> >>> This e-mail may contain confidential information that may >>> >> also be legally > >> privileged and that is intended only for the use of the addressee(s) >>> named above. If you are not the intended recipient or an authorized >>> agent of the recipient, please be advised that any dissemination or >>> copying of this e-mail, or taking of any action in reliance on the >>> information contained herein, is strictly prohibited. If you have >>> received this e-mail in error, please notify me immediately >>> >> by use of the > >> reply button, and then delete the e-mail from your system. >>> >> Thank you! > >> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep > .deeley%40insightbb.com > >> >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------------- > >> >> >> >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release >> > Date: 03/13/09 > >> 05:59:00 >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/slabar > re%40labarrelaw.com > >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep > .deeley%40insightbb.com > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------------- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release > Date: 03/13/09 > 05:59:00 > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugm > an%40sbcglobal.net > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep > .deeley%40insightbb.com > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------------- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release > Date: 03/13/09 > 05:59:00 > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jsoroz > co%40gmail.com > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of > virus signature database 3936 (20090313) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature > database 3936 (20090313) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/slabarre%40labarre law.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b75205%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/bspiry%40comcast.n et From JMcCarthy at nfb.org Sun Mar 15 15:59:12 2009 From: JMcCarthy at nfb.org (McCarthy, Jim) Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 11:59:12 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] comments needed regarding policy foraudiblepedestriansignals In-Reply-To: <3EF776BCF9174299958856D958862DCE@spike> Message-ID: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6B26D668@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local> Chuck, You bring up streets with medians, which reminds me of a point in the document that I might question. The document says that it is better for blind people to complete the entire crossing rather than to wait in a median, doing the crossing in multiple parts, usually two. I think that when the person realizes that there is a median, he or she is more comfortable waiting there. What sometimes happens though is that the median is not clearly indicated so a blind person is not sure where in the street area would be safe to wait. I know that when I had a dog, he would go toward the place with the least obstructions so it was hard to realize that there might be a median. Medians that are not raised or otherwise distinguishable to a blind person are highly appropriate places for detectible warnings and in my experience, probably the most appropriate places for them. That, of course, is another topic. Jim McCarthy -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 1:17 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] comments needed regarding policy foraudiblepedestriansignals thanks. Some of the audible signals that have been installed thus far installed at appropriate intersections. Others have been installed ast places where there is a low volume of traffic and where there is a low demand. Apparently they are wanting to have a more a systematic approach in place to determine where signals will be installed in the future. We have many intersections where there are medians crossing several wide streets where they have not been installed. On these I personally prefer to at times to divide the crossing in to two sections to pay more attention to traffic flow. There is another location where they should probably build a pedestrian crossing either above or below ground. There is a precedent for a couple of below ground crossings one in downtown Fresno that was built in the 60's and one that was just opened a couple of years ago to go under railroad tracks that cut through the campus of the local community college. There have been some above ground pedestrian crossings of major roads and freeways to benefit children going to school. As a long-time cane user trained long before audible signals were fashionable or feasible I still believe that traffic flow is the best audible signal. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "McCarthy, Jim" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 6:58 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] comments needed regarding policy for audiblepedestriansignals > Chuck, > I am happy to talk through this with you off line if you would prefer. > Nevertheless, I will offer my immediate thoughts after reading. It is > a little unclear what the goal is. This process is to prioritize > intersections giving those most in need APS first. I am convinced > that there are several signalized (light controlled) intersections > that do not need these devices. However, this might be a way to > provide APS at all signalized intersections in time and that may be > what the Access-Board will come to require. > > I think it is good to have as a part of the evaluation team a blind > person and a deaf blind person when the requester is deaf blind or > serves that community. I have always found it problematic though when > cities say that the centers blind people use should have some super > priority. I lived in Portland Oregon and the west part of the city > was hilly with curvy streets. Many were not straight and some had high speed traffic. > However, the audible traffic signals were almost never in those > neighborhoods (the better ones I might add) because it was assumed > that blind people did not frequent them. To me that is a ghettoizing > assumption that results from this process. I do think that public > transit centers and such places should have greater attention paid > though and this document would do that. > > Finally, in the main, I think that the traffic and street > configuration factors are as they should be. I think that the > locations with the greatest need based on these factors should be the > first to receive signals. The Fresno process is similar to others I > have seen, though I would prefer that the evaluation group use the factors and evaluate all > signalized intersections using the factors more than whether and how > many requests were made. > Jim McCarthy > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] > On Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net > Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2009 8:21 AM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: [blindlaw] comments needed regarding policy for audible > pedestriansignals > > The City of Fresno is proposing the policy shown below to evaluate the > installation of audible traffic signals. As this is outside my > expertise I would appreciate any comments regarding this document. > Please feel free to contact me off list if needed. > Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal > 1237 P Street > Fresno ca 93721 > 559-266-9237 > > > APS Policy-03-09-LP .pdf > DRAFT ACCESSIBLE PEDESTRIAN SIGNALS (APS) INTERSECTION EVALUATION > PROCEDURE BACKGROUND Accessible Pedestrian Signals (APS), also known > as audible pedestrian signals, are devices that communicate > information about pedestrian timing in nonvisual format such as > audible tones, verbal messages, and/or vibrating surfaces. APS are > used in conjunction with standard pedestrian activated traffic signals > to provide the following information to pedestrians: > list of 4 items > · > Existence of and location of the pedestrian pushbutton · Beginning of > the pedestrian WALK interval · Direction of the crosswalk and location > of the destination curb · Clearance signal interval list end They are > used to assist blind and visually impaired persons and other persons > with disabilities of all ages to cross at designated streets and intersections. > PURPOSE > The purpose of this evaluation policy is to set forth factors to be > used by the City of Fresno's Public Works Department, in cooperation > with the City of Fresno's Disability Advisory Commission, in > developing a priority listing of signalized intersection candidates to > be retrofitted with audible devices that will provide guidance for the > blind community and visually impaired persons and other persons with > disabilities of all ages to cross certain streets. > POLICY > It is the policy of the City Council that the retrofitting of existing > traffic signals with APS shall be based on factors established herein > and that such measurements and computations as may be required in > determining priority rating of candidate locations shall be the > responsibility of the Public Works Department. > It should be noted that in special situations, an APS should not be > installed because of the adverse affect it could have on pedestrian > safety as a result of the overall traffic circulation pattern of an > area, or unusual geometric conditions where an APS would not provide > the safety benefits necessary for the blind or visually impaired > individuals to cross a street. It should also be noted that some > traffic signals cannot be retrofitted with APS without major costly > modifications. Retrofitting of traffic signals with APS shall be > subject to approval by the City Engineer. > Important: APS are utilized to help blind and visually impaired > travelers recognize when a WALK signal is operating in a given > direction. An APS may enhance the safety of blind travelers in two ways: > list of 1 items > 1. > Lessens the chance of a blind or visually impaired pedestrian > misjudging when the walk phase is operating, thereby lessening the > chance of accidentally crossing against a signal. > list end > list of 1 items > 2. > Helps blind and visually impaired pedestrians recognize immediately > when the walk phase begins, permitting them to cross the street in a > timely fashion, thereby lessening the chance of being in the > intersection when the signal changes. > list end > However, it is important to recognize that the APS does not and cannot > assure the blind and visually impaired pedestrians that there will be > no potential traffic conflicts while crossing when the APS is > operating. In particular, the blind and visually impaired pedestrians > should be aware of at least four possible conflicts. > list of 4 items > 1. > Vehicles may be still clearing the intersection when the APS comes on. > 2. > Vehicles may fail to stop for the red light. This is particularly > common for motorists attempting to enter on a yellow light. > 3. > Motorists may stop and make a right turn on red while watching traffic > on their left but may fail to notice pedestrians on their right. > 4. > Vehicles may have right and left turns on the same phase as the > pedestrian. > list end > Because of these potential conflicts, it is important that the blind > or visually impaired traveler exercise due caution for his or her > well-being when crossing a street, whether or not it is equipped with > APS. It is especially important that blind and visually impaired > travelers be properly trained by certified orientation and mobility > specialists in safe travel techniques on the public right-of-way. > EVALUATION PROCEDURE (See attached "Evaluation Form.") The following > basic considerations and evaluation factors shall be utilized to > determine whether a location is eligible to be a candidate for APS and > to determine its relative position on the priority list. Evaluation > and scoring of factors will be conducted by an evaluation team > consisting of a certified orientation-mobility specialist, a visually > impaired/blind traveler and a traffic engineer. Candidate locations > shall be requested by the City of Fresno Disability Advisory > Commission, its working groups, and constituent requests to the ADA Coordinator's office. > Candidate locations will be evaluated by means of the sample > evaluation sheet attached. > I. BASIC CONSIDERATIONS: > APS normally will be considered for installation only if the following > conditions are met: > list of 5 items > A. > Intersections must be signalized. > B. > Signals must be susceptible to retrofitting. > C. > Signals should be equipped with pedestrian signal actuations. (See > also section on "Signals without Pedestrian Actuations.") D. > Location must be suitable to installation of audible signals, in terms > of surrounding land use, noise level and neighborhood acceptance. > E. > There must be a demonstrated need for the audible signals in the form > of a request from an individual or group that would use the audible signal. > list end > II EVALUATION FACTORS > The following factors shall be used to establish a priority listing > for potential audible traffic signal candidates. Candidates will be > arranged in priority order of those with the highest total points (100 > points > maximum) on top and then in descending order. The scoring of factors > will be conducted by an evaluation team consistent of a mobility > specialist, a visually impaired/blind traveler and a traffic engineer. > If the request for an APS was made by a deaf blind individual, or by > representative of an organization serving deaf blind pedestrians in > order to improve access in their geographic area, the evaluation team > may also include a deaf blind rater. The decision whether to include a > deaf blind rater will be made by the City Engineer. > A) Intersection Safety > 1. Accident Records: Past pedestrian accident experience at the > intersection will be used as an indication of potential safety > performance. Points will be based on pedestrian accidents reported by > the City of Fresno's Police Department. > > table with 3 columns and 6 rows > Pedestrian Accidents > Period > Points > 1 > 4 years > 1 > 2 > 4 years > 2 > 3 > 4 years > 3 > 4 > 4 years > 4 > 5 or more > 4 years > 5 > table end > > 2. Intersection Configuration: The number of approaches to an > intersection and their geometric configuration (offset, skewed, etc.) > affect the ability of the blind and visually impaired persons crossing the roadway. > In particular, traffic at 3-leg intersections tends not to provide > adequate audible clues for the blind to permit them to effectively > judge the signal phase. > > table with 2 columns and 6 rows > Configuration > Points > 4-leg right angle intersection > 1 > 3-leg T-intersection > 2 > 3 or 4-leg skewed intersection > 3 > 4-leg offset intersection > 4 > Other complex or multiple leg intersections > 5 > table end > > Note: Intersections with 5 or more legs will require special design. > 3. Intersection Signalization: Pre-timed intersections are the easiest > for blind pedestrian because the phase interval is constant and can be > observed over time. Vehicle actuated intersections are more difficult, > because the pedestrian interval may be of different lengths or skipped > all together. Split-phasing can provide confusing auditory > information, as a traveler may interpret left-turning vehicles as a parallel traffic surge. > > table with 2 columns and 5 rows > Signalization > Points > Pre-timed > 0 > Vehicle Actuated > 2 > Split Phasing > 4 > Exclusive Ped Phase (for future reference) > 5 > table end > > 4. > Width of Crossing: > Wider streets are more difficult for blind travelers to cross. If each > leg of the intersection has a different width, points will be assigned > on the basis of the widest street on which pedestrians are permitted > to cross. > Crossing > width will be measured at the point pedestrians normally cross the street. > Islands > and medians will be included in the total crossing distance even if > they are equipped with separate pedestrian signal actuators. These > points will be apportioned based upon the greatest width of the > crossing at the subject intersection. > > table with 2 columns and 7 rows > Width of Crossing > Points > 40 feet or less > 0 > 40 to 59 feet > 1 > 60 to 79 feet > 2 > 80 to 99 feet > 3 > 100 -119 > 4 > 120 feet or more > 5 > table end > > 5. Vehicle Speed: The speed of approaching traffic reflects the > ability of approaching traffic to stop for a pedestrian clearing the > intersection as the lights change. Audible signals help blind > pedestrians get a timely start at the beginning of the walk phase, > thereby permitting clearing the intersection in a timely manner. > Points are assigned on the basis of the 85 percentile speed on the > fastest approach leg. More points are assigned on the basis of higher speeds. > > table with 2 columns and 6 rows > Speed Range > Points > 0 - 25 mph > 1 > 26 - 30 mph > 2 > 31 - 35 mph > 3 > 36 - 40 mph > 4 > 41 mph or over > 5 > table end > > B. Crosswalk Characteristics > These points will be apportioned based upon the highest-scoring > characteristics of any of the crosswalks at the intersection. For > example, if any of the crosswalks at an intersection have a median > island protruding into an intersection, then the intersection will > receive the two points allotted for that characteristic. > list of 1 items > (a) > Location of Pedestrian Push Button. Pedestrian push buttons that are > too far from the intersection can present difficulties for blind > pedestrians. They may make it harder for an individual to use the > button as a cue for alignment and/or to push the button and cross in > the same cycle. > list end > > table with 2 columns and 4 rows > Location of Pedestrian Actuations > Points > One or more ped pushbuttons located > 10 ft from curb > 1 > One or more ped pushbuttons located > 5 ft from crosswalk extended > 2 > One or more ped pushbuttons out of alignment with direction of travel > 2 > table end > > list of 1 items > (b) > Median Islands Blind pedestrians have difficulties interpreting > traffic clues at medians and islands. Efforts should be made to permit > the blind to cross in one continuous movement. In such cases, signal > timing should be extended to accommodate the full crossing. Divided > streets with or without a pedestrian signal actuator in the median > will be handled as a single crossing, with the width measured across > the entire street. > list end > > table with 2 columns and 2 rows > Median Island > Points > Protruding into crosswalk, or cut through. > 2 > table end > > list of 1 items > (c) > Alignment of Crosswalk. A skewed crosswalk is one in which the > direction of travel on the crosswalk differs from that on the > approaching sidewalk. In this context, skew is not defined as the > angle at which streets intersect. If a blind pedestrian walking a > straight line from the approaching sidewalk is headed toward parallel > traffic lanes, the crosswalk is skewed. If the pedestrian would end up > deviating from the crosswalk, but would still arrive at the opposite > corner, the crosswalk is not defined as skewed for this purpose. > list end > Skewed Crosswalk > 4 > (d) Distance to Alternative APS > > table with 2 columns and 6 rows > Distance to Alternative APS Crosswalk > Points > 1 block > 0 > 2 blocks > 0 > 3 blocks > 2 > 4 blocks > 2 > 5 or more blocks > 3 > table end > > (e) Requests for APS > New requests for APS will be recorded by the ADA Coordinator. > Requestors will be asked to specify the reason for the request (e.g. > proximity on a route to school or work), the difficulty they encounter > at the intersection, and the time of day that presents the greatest > difficulty. This information may be used by the Orientation and > Mobility Evaluation team in assessing the intersection. > > table with 2 columns and 4 rows > APS Requests > Points > 1 request > 1 > 2 recent documented requests > 2 > 3 or more recent, documented requests > 3-4 > table end > > B) Pedestrian Usage > Blind pedestrians share many characteristics with the sighted > population in that they go to public places, business, social, > educational and medical facilities. At the same time they have special > needs. For example, they may have a greater reliance on public > transportation than sighted persons. Audible signals should be placed > with the view of improving mobility of blind persons and making more > facilities accessible to them. Proximity of signals to these > facilities may assure a greater degree of utilization. > list of 1 items > 1. > Proximity to facilities for people who are blind or visually impaired: > This includes the > Department of Rehabilitation, Social Security offices, Valley Center > for the Blind and other similar facilities. Special consideration may > be given to senior citizens complexes or public housing facilities > that have one or more blind or visually impaired persons in residence. > Points are assigned on the basis of blocks or distance (1 block equals > 400 > feet) from proposed APS site to subject facility. The closer the two > are, the more points are assigned. > list end > > table with 2 columns and 6 rows > Proximity > Points > 4 to 6 blocks > 2 > 3 blocks > 4 > 2 blocks > 6 > 1 block > 8 > At subject facility > 10 > table end > > 2. Proximity to key facilities utilized by all pedestrians (blind and > sighted.): This includes > medical, educational, social, recreational, shopping, commercial, > business, public and governmental facilities. Points are assigned on > the basis of blocks or distance (1 block equals 400 feet) from > proposed APS site to subject facility. In case of multiple facilities, > points will be assigned on the basis of the closest facility. > > table with 2 columns and 6 rows > Proximity > Points > 4 to 6 blocks > 1 > 3 blocks > 2 > 2 blocks > 3 > 1 block > 4 > At subject facility > 5 > table end > > 3. Access to public transit: Because blind and visually impaired > persons rely heavily upon public transportation (bus or trolley), > special consideration will be given to those proposed APS sites that > have heavy general use, serves any of the facilities indicated above > (Ref. B-1 and B-2), or serves as a transfer point and serves 2 or more > transit routes within a one-block walking distance. > list of 1 items > a) > Number of transit stops and/or transit routes within one block of > proposed audible signal site. > list end > > table with 2 columns and 6 rows > Number of Routes and Stops > Points > 1 - 2 routes and 1 stop > 1 > 3 or more routes and 1 stop > 2 > 1 - 2 routes and 2 stops > 3 > 3 or more routes and 2 stops > 4 > 2 or more routes and more than 2 stops > 5 > table end > > b) Passenger usage is based upon the total passengers boarding and > debarking each day at a transit stop or transfer point within a > one-block walking distance. > > table with 2 columns and 7 rows > Passengers Boarding and Debarking Each Day Points 0 - 49 0 > 50-149 > 1 > 150-249 > 2 > 250-499 > 3 > 500-999 > 4 > 1,000 and over > 5 > table end > > C) Traffic Conditions > Vehicle volumes, traffic distribution, traffic congestion and flow > characteristics may assist or impede the blind traveler in crossing an > intersection. Blind pedestrians can function best when crossing > signalized intersections that are at right angles with a moderate but > steady flow of traffic through the intersection on each leg and with a > minimum of turning movements (right or left turns). Traffic that stops > on each leg during each signal cycle is particularly helpful. Traffic > that is either light, or very heavy, or erratic in its flow makes it > difficult for the blind traveler to pick up audible clues as to > whether the light is red or green. In such cases, audible signals will > assist in determining when it is possible to cross the street. Points > may be assigned by the evaluation team based upon their perception of > the relative importance of each of these factors (which are not > necessarily dependent upon the total average daily traffic). Candidate > locations may score up to a maximum of 5 points for each of the > following factors depending upon overall traffic distribution. > > table with 3 columns and 6 rows > Heavy Traffic Flow > Vehicles per hour > Points > Approach traffic on all legs is in excess of 2,000 vehicles per hour > during any peak hour. > 2,000 - 2,999 > 1 > Approach traffic on all legs is in excess of 2,000 vehicles per hour > during any peak hour. > 3,000 - 3,999 > 2 > Approach traffic on all legs is in excess of 2,000 vehicles per hour > during any peak hour. > 4,000 - 4,999 > 3 > Approach traffic on all legs is in excess of 2,000 vehicles per hour > during any peak hour. > 5,000 - 5,999 > 4 > Approach traffic on all legs is in excess of 2,000 vehicles per hour > during any peak hour. > 6,000 and over > 5 > table end > > table with 3 columns and 7 rows > Off Peak Traffic Presence Direction 1 > Points > At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, > expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. > Constant (≥ 90%) > 0 > At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, > expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. > Heavy (70-80%) > 1 > At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, > expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. > Moderate (50-60%) > 2 > At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, > expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. > Light (30-40%) > 3 > At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, > expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. > Occasional (<30%) > 4 > At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, > expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. > None (no through lanes to create surge noise. > 5 > table end > > table with 3 columns and 7 rows > Off Peak Traffic Presence > Direction 2 > Points > At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, > expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. > Constant (≥ 90%) > 0 > At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, > expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. > Heavy (70-80%) > 1 > At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, > expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. > Moderate (50-60%) > 2 > At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, > expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. > Light (30-40%) > 3 > At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, > expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. > Occasional (<30%) > 4 > At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, > expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. > None (no through lanes to create surge noise. > 5 > table end > > E.) Mobility Evaluation > Each intersection being considered for audible signals should be > evaluated by a certified orientation and mobility specialist. Based on > the judgment of the O-M specialist and the evaluation team, additional > points may be assigned based on observed or special conditions not > adequately covered by any of the previous factors. This may include a > heavy right-turn volume, right-turn island, right-turn signals, > limited cone of "visibility", etc. > Points > Mobility and miscellaneous factors > 0-15 > Signals without Pedestrian Actuations > Signalized intersections without pedestrian actuations may be > considered for evaluation under this priority system, provided the > following conditions are met: > list of 3 items > 1. > There must be a demonstrated problem or need that can be alleviated by > the installation of an audible signal in the form of a request from an > individual or group that would use the audible signal. > 2. > The evaluation team must unanimously concur with the need. > 3. > Appropriate pedestrian actuation buttons and circuits must be provided > as part of the APS installation. > list end > Accessible Signals at New Signal Installations Accessible signals will > be considered for new signal installation if it is determined that > installation is warranted by the criteria established above. > Public Notice of Installation of Accessible Signals The City > recognizes that the installation of an APS may be of interest to the > community, especially residents in the immediate vicinity of the > candidate intersection. In addition, research has indicated that APS > are more effectively used by blind and visually impaired pedestrians > if they have notice of its location and a basic understanding of the > type of signal installed. > Accordingly, the Director of Public Works will provide a notice to > neighbors in a 350 feet radius from the intersection of the proposed > installation of an APS at that site, and invite concerned citizens to > contact him in writing. In addition, the Department of Public Works > will issue press releases and informing the public and organizations > serving people with disabilities, especially visual impairments, of > type and location of proposed and installed APS. > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jmccarthy%40 > nfb.org > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40s > bcglobal.net > _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jmccarthy%40nfb.org From goldflash9 at sbcglobal.net Sun Mar 15 17:50:48 2009 From: goldflash9 at sbcglobal.net (Sarah Clark) Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 10:50:48 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target References: <549FC55C53E54BA5814FA71C231CE71F@StevePC><489BACB231A24B1494701FE7E81396B8@StevePC> <3C355AFB1ACB43EEBDBD9356D3EFBF38@StevePC> Message-ID: <002c01c9a596$932199a0$6801a8c0@computer2> Sometimes monetary damages are awarded more to try to curb the behavior of the defendent than to award the plaintiff. With a big corporation like Target, the amount needs to be substantial in order to get their attention enough to cause them to change their behavior. I doubt that they'd feel the need to change anything if every claim represented merely $10. $3500 would likely get their attention, however. Its like a smack on the hand, except large companies need a bigger one in order to feel it. Sarah ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. Deeley" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 9:41 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target I understand that, however, I just do not agree with the entire concept of awarding damages in this sort of case. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rod Alcidonis" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 9:27 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target Steve: The effort here was to try to help your understanding and educate your logic, not to justify the existence of the legal system. I am afraid that you are still not willing to accept that "damage" as used in the law is a term of art. Meaning, It has a specific legal definition different from normal use. It is different when you say that "my bicycle was damaged, for example. It is a legal recognition that certain harms should be compensated. In this case, the plaintiffs are being paid not for the fact that they were physically damage in the normal use of the term, but for violations of their civil rights. See Denis' e-mail for what the harm was. In the bicycle example, if someone were to break your bicycle, you can receive "damages" as the cost of repair, or replacement of the bicycle. By the way, you are also entitled to enforce your civil rights if you so choose and receive damages. Not every violations entitle someone to such remedy. When a person cannot get damages under the law, that person has the option of seeking equitable relief in the form of an injunction or restraining order against the defendant. In this case damages was available as a remedy so the plaintiffs are getting money. They are getting paid because their civil rights were violated. I hope this further helps inform your comments. Take care. Rod Alcidonis Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009. Roger Williams University School of Law 10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 Bristol, RI 02809 Cell: 718-704-4651 Home: 401-824-8685 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. Deeley" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 9:22 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target That is a lawyer talking who makes his living in rediculous situations like this one. Again, you show me how an individual was damaged and out $4,000.00. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott C. LaBarre" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 5:38 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target Violation of civil rights has long been recognized as a form of compensible legal damage as well it should be. Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. LaBarre Law Offices P.C. 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 Denver, Colorado 80222 303 504-5979 (voice) 303 757-3640 (fax) slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) www.labarrelaw.com (website) CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. Deeley" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 2:31 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > This is ridiculous! How were these people damaged? > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mehgan Sidhu" > To: > Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 3:20 PM > Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > >> To answer the recent questions posted about the Target case, the final >> settlement hearing took place on March 9th. I understand from our >> counsel in California, Larry Paradis of DRA and Josh Konecky, that there >> were no objectors and the Judge was pleased with the resolution of the >> case. The settlement is not fully "final" until the time for any >> appeals has run - which is about 30 days. Given there were no objectors, >> it is highly unlikely that any appeals will be filed. The judge has not >> yet made a ruling on attorneys fees, but that will not hold up >> enforcement of the settlement. >> >> >> >> As for disbursements, assuming there are no appeals, the claims >> administer has 45 days from the final approval date to disburse funds to >> claimants. I do not know the final tally of approved claimants, though I >> think there were several hundred. I will pass that information along >> when I have it. >> >> >> >> We will now be working on enforcing the settlement commitments that >> Target made with respect to the accessibility of the website. >> >> >> Mehgan Sidhu >> Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP >> 120 East Baltimore Street, Suite 1700 >> Baltimore, Maryland 21202 >> 410-962-1030 x1324 >> 410-385-0869 (fax) >> ms at browngold.com >> www.browngold.com >> >> Confidentiality Notice >> >> This e-mail may contain confidential information that may also be legally >> privileged and that is intended only for the use of the addressee(s) >> named above. If you are not the intended recipient or an authorized >> agent of the recipient, please be advised that any dissemination or >> copying of this e-mail, or taking of any action in reliance on the >> information contained herein, is strictly prohibited. If you have >> received this e-mail in error, please notify me immediately by use of the >> reply button, and then delete the e-mail from your system. Thank you! >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release Date: 03/13/09 > 05:59:00 > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/slabarre%40labarrelaw.com > _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release Date: 03/13/09 05:59:00 _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/2001 - Release Date: 03/14/09 06:54:00 _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/goldflash9%40sbcglobal.net From cdborne at gmail.com Sun Mar 15 17:51:22 2009 From: cdborne at gmail.com (Craig Borne) Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 13:51:22 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Multiple LSAT Scores In-Reply-To: <4F79E4EE98A44E7384EC96CA1D9C82BB@noneeb869fea9a> References: <20090314215724.IUPS15875.fed1rmmtai110.cox.net@fed1rmimpi01.cox.net> <4F79E4EE98A44E7384EC96CA1D9C82BB@noneeb869fea9a> Message-ID: <028501c9a596$a7c91360$7100a8c0@computer> John, I agree. Never in my 3 1/2 years of law school was I asked to calculate how many green M and Ms would fit in a school locker. Craig Craig Borne Baltimore, Maryland "A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial appearance of being right, and raises at first a formidable outcry in defense of custom." --Thomas Paine, Common Sense -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of John Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 6:10 PM To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Multiple LSAT Scores It has been several years since I had the displeasure of taking the LSAT, but something I have always pondered about is this fictional belief that the LSAT score is an accurate predictor of how a student will do in his first year of law school. I personally believe that it is not a predictor of anything, much less, how a person will perform in law school. I am sure that there a thousand studies supporting and refuting this claim. I just find it interesting. Take care, John John A. Ramsey Jr., Esq. Gainesville, FL 32609 Phone: (352) 505-6642 -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Angie Matney Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 5:17 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: [blindlaw] Multiple LSAT Scores Here's what UVA's web site says: What is your policy on multiple LSAT scores? The ABA requires law schools to report LSAT information using an admitted students highest score, so that is the score to which we give the most weight. We evaluate all information submitted as part of the application for admission, however, including all scores earned on the LSAT. Studies by the Law School Admission Council suggest that in most cases the average score is the most accurate predictor of academic performance in the first year of law school, so we encourage applicants with a significant difference in LSAT scores to include with their application any information that may be relevant to the interpretation of test results, such as illness, testing conditions, or other circumstances that may have affected LSAT performance. _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joramsey%40cox.net _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdborne%40gmail.co m From ukekearuaro at valtdnet.com Sun Mar 15 17:54:38 2009 From: ukekearuaro at valtdnet.com (Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc.) Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 11:54:38 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] EMPLOYMENT PRACTICE ATORNEY SOUGHT References: Message-ID: <45F8016BD1A44EB68DCA01987EF191DE@valtd> Hi Everyone: I am seeking for an employment practice attorney (hope i got the term correctly? ) Such an attorney MUST E ABLE TO PRACTICE EMPLOYMENT LAW in the State of Colorado. Please contact me privately by sending E-Mail to: ukekearuaro at valtdnet.com Alternately, referrals toan employment practice attorney in Colorado will be graciously appreciated. Tanks for all help!! Sincerely, Olusegun Denver, Colorado From stevep.deeley at insightbb.com Sun Mar 15 18:56:17 2009 From: stevep.deeley at insightbb.com (Steve P. Deeley) Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 14:56:17 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target In-Reply-To: <572950BB1C7A4653B86DA42CA429C608@spike> References: <549FC55C53E54BA5814FA71C231CE71F@StevePC> <03B8D4FE14404DA090F70CC5A0D9949B@StevePC> <572950BB1C7A4653B86DA42CA429C608@spike> Message-ID: <488509EEF1F84C2F892BBCE66BB15E74@StevePC> I really do understand how the process works. I am looking forward to learning the total amount of damages, including attorneys' fees. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 8:14 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > part of the issue here is that damages awarded to punish businesses for > this > type of inappropriate behavior. it is used as a deterrent to insure that > businesses are made to follow the laws and take civil rights issues > seriously. It is the same principle that courts use for assessing fines > for > drunk driving and other offenses. In order to bring about change you need > to > affect an individual or a business in a way that is effective and awarding > damages is one of the best ways possible. It has become a sound principal > of > law and has been upheld in many court tests both in civil and criminal > cases. > Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal > 1237 P Street > Fresno ca 93721 > 559-266-9237 > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Steve P. Deeley" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 6:25 AM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > >>I want someone to show me how this results in damages of this magnitude. >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Rod Alcidonis" >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 12:24 AM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target >> >> >>> Steve: >>> >>> If you are not an attorney or a law student, we may be arguing and >>> understanding different concepts here. "Damage" is a legal concept, and >>> if >>> not used in that sense can certainly lead to ridiculous understanding. A >>> damage award allows a plaintiff to be compensated for the harm caused by >>> the >>> defendant. Damages take various forms: physical harm, emotional harm, >>> loss >>> wages, etc. Here as Scott said, the legislature has decided to make such >>> civil rights violations compensable as damages. It is a legal >>> recognition >>> that a harm was caused, and it was caused to the plaintiff. The harm >>> here >>> was violations of federal and State civil rights. >>> I hope that helps. >>> >>> Rod Alcidonis >>> Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009. >>> Roger Williams University School of Law >>> 10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 >>> Bristol, RI 02809 >>> Cell: 718-704-4651 >>> Home: 401-824-8685 >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Steve P. Deeley" >>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>> Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 9:20 PM >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target >>> >>> >>>> Well, sign me up. There are dozens of Web sites a year that I can't >>>> access. This is just ridiculous. This is, exactly, what raises the >>>> cost >>>> of doing business for companies. I'm not condoning Target's continuing >>>> unwillingness to deal with their inaccessible >>>> web site, however, there is no way that an individual is damaged to the >>>> tune of $4,000.00. >>>> Steve >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Mehgan Sidhu" >>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>> Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 5:02 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target >>>> >>>> >>>>> Steve, >>>>> >>>>> In addition to the ADA claim, the lawsuit was brought under >>>>> California's >>>>> Unruh Act and Disabled Person's Act, both of which provide for minimum >>>>> statutory damages ($4,000 and $1,000 per violation, respectively). >>>>> Under >>>>> the agreement, members of the California class who are legally blind, >>>>> had >>>>> attempted to use Target.com between February 7, 2003 and December 9, >>>>> 2008, and experienced significant barriers were eligible for damages >>>>> of >>>>> up to $3,500 per violation for a maximum of 2 violations. >>>>> >>>>> A copy of the settlement is available at the following site: >>>>> http://www.nfbtargetlawsuit.com/final_settlement.html >>>>> >>>>> Mehgan Sidhu >>>>> Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP >>>>> 120 East Baltimore Street, Suite 1700 >>>>> Baltimore, Maryland 21202 >>>>> 410-962-1030 x1324 >>>>> 410-385-0869 (fax) >>>>> ms at browngold.com >>>>> www.browngold.com >>>>> >>>>> Confidentiality Notice >>>>> >>>>> This e-mail may contain confidential information that may also be >>>>> legally >>>>> privileged and that is intended only for the use of the addressee(s) >>>>> named above. If you are not the intended recipient or an authorized >>>>> agent of the recipient, please be advised that any dissemination or >>>>> copying of this e-mail, or taking of any action in reliance on the >>>>> information contained herein, is strictly prohibited. If you have >>>>> received this e-mail in error, please notify me immediately by use of >>>>> the >>>>> reply button, and then delete the e-mail from your system. Thank you! >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>>> On >>>>> Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley >>>>> Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 4:31 PM >>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target >>>>> >>>>> This is ridiculous! How were these people damaged? >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Mehgan Sidhu" >>>>> To: >>>>> Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 3:20 PM >>>>> Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> To answer the recent questions posted about the Target case, the >>>>>> final >>>>>> settlement hearing took place on March 9th. I understand from our >>>>>> counsel >>>>>> in California, Larry Paradis of DRA and Josh Konecky, that there were >>>>>> no >>>>>> objectors and the Judge was pleased with the resolution of the case. >>>>>> The >>>>>> settlement is not fully "final" until the time for any appeals has >>>>>> run - >>>>>> which is about 30 days. Given there were no objectors, it is highly >>>>>> unlikely that any appeals will be filed. The judge has not yet made >>>>>> a >>>>>> ruling on attorneys fees, but that will not hold up enforcement of >>>>>> the >>>>>> settlement. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> As for disbursements, assuming there are no appeals, the claims >>>>>> administer >>>>>> has 45 days from the final approval date to disburse funds to >>>>>> claimants. >>>>>> I do not know the final tally of approved claimants, though I think >>>>>> there >>>>>> were several hundred. I will pass that information along when I have >>>>>> it. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> We will now be working on enforcing the settlement commitments that >>>>>> Target >>>>>> made with respect to the accessibility of the website. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Mehgan Sidhu >>>>>> Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP >>>>>> 120 East Baltimore Street, Suite 1700 >>>>>> Baltimore, Maryland 21202 >>>>>> 410-962-1030 x1324 >>>>>> 410-385-0869 (fax) >>>>>> ms at browngold.com >>>>>> www.browngold.com >>>>>> >>>>>> Confidentiality Notice >>>>>> >>>>>> This e-mail may contain confidential information that may also be >>>>>> legally >>>>>> privileged and that is intended only for the use of the addressee(s) >>>>>> named >>>>>> above. If you are not the intended recipient or an authorized agent >>>>>> of >>>>>> the recipient, please be advised that any dissemination or copying of >>>>>> this >>>>>> e-mail, or taking of any action in reliance on the information >>>>>> contained >>>>>> herein, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in >>>>>> error, please notify me immediately by use of the reply button, and >>>>>> then >>>>>> delete the e-mail from your system. Thank you! >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> blindlaw: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>>>> Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release Date: >>>>> 03/13/09 >>>>> 05:59:00 >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> blindlaw: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ms%40browngold.com >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> blindlaw: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com >>>> >>>> >>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>>> Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release Date: >>>> 03/13/09 >>>> 05:59:00 >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release Date: >> 03/13/09 >> 05:59:00 >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/2001 - Release Date: 03/14/09 06:54:00 From joramsey at cox.net Sun Mar 15 18:57:27 2009 From: joramsey at cox.net (John ) Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 14:57:27 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Multiple LSAT Scores In-Reply-To: <028501c9a596$a7c91360$7100a8c0@computer> Message-ID: <107BE7431F3C4AD3A26E7F337F75568A@noneeb869fea9a> Hello Craig, Nor did it matter which ship could dock at which port on which day. As far as the reading comprehension sections were concerned, the articles were dull and made me sleepy, but did not have any impact on my professor's being equally dull. Take care, John John A. Ramsey Jr., Esq. Gainesville, FL 32609 Phone: (352) 505-6642 -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Craig Borne Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 1:51 PM To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Multiple LSAT Scores John, I agree. Never in my 3 1/2 years of law school was I asked to calculate how many green M and Ms would fit in a school locker. Craig Craig Borne Baltimore, Maryland "A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial appearance of being right, and raises at first a formidable outcry in defense of custom." --Thomas Paine, Common Sense -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of John Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 6:10 PM To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Multiple LSAT Scores It has been several years since I had the displeasure of taking the LSAT, but something I have always pondered about is this fictional belief that the LSAT score is an accurate predictor of how a student will do in his first year of law school. I personally believe that it is not a predictor of anything, much less, how a person will perform in law school. I am sure that there a thousand studies supporting and refuting this claim. I just find it interesting. Take care, John John A. Ramsey Jr., Esq. Gainesville, FL 32609 Phone: (352) 505-6642 -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Angie Matney Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 5:17 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: [blindlaw] Multiple LSAT Scores Here's what UVA's web site says: What is your policy on multiple LSAT scores? The ABA requires law schools to report LSAT information using an admitted students highest score, so that is the score to which we give the most weight. We evaluate all information submitted as part of the application for admission, however, including all scores earned on the LSAT. Studies by the Law School Admission Council suggest that in most cases the average score is the most accurate predictor of academic performance in the first year of law school, so we encourage applicants with a significant difference in LSAT scores to include with their application any information that may be relevant to the interpretation of test results, such as illness, testing conditions, or other circumstances that may have affected LSAT performance. _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joramsey%40cox.net _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdborne%40gmail.co m _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joramsey%40cox.net From stevep.deeley at insightbb.com Sun Mar 15 18:58:10 2009 From: stevep.deeley at insightbb.com (Steve P. Deeley) Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 14:58:10 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target In-Reply-To: <03511FE329E54410AB0E98A49306651B@Scorpio13> References: <549FC55C53E54BA5814FA71C231CE71F@StevePC> <001301c9a442$63a1e180$6401a8c0@server> <588EC588BDA14F18B7560ACF4C83829B@StevePC> <03511FE329E54410AB0E98A49306651B@Scorpio13> Message-ID: I know that. I appreciate all of the great discussion on the matter. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Danielsen" To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 6:02 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > Darn right. Being discriminated against is always psychologically > damaging. > Look, Steve, the idea here is to show Target that it is wrong to > discriminate against blind people. Some greedy corporations don't > understand > anything but money, so the legislature of California decided to impose a > specific cost per claim on them so that they would learn this lesson the > hard way. If corporations only had to payt ten cents every time they > discriminated against somebody, they might figure that it was easier just > to > go right on discriminating. At $4,000 a pop--which isn't much money at all > when you're a company like Target--maybe, just maybe, they'll think twice > about it. > > Chris > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley > Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 9:27 AM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > I'm quite certain there was psychological damage as well, right??? > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Dennis Clark" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 9:15 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > >> They were damaged in that they were not able to place orders on Targets >> website using screen readers. As a result you would have to make >> purchases >> on the Target website using sighted assistance, likely paid assistance, >> or >> you would have to go to a Target store. If retailers like Target do not >> wish to make their websites available to all people, all they need to do >> is >> take the website down, and we can all go to the store in person to make >> our >> purchases. >> All the best, >> Dennis >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Steve P. Deeley" >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 1:31 PM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target >> >> >>> This is ridiculous! How were these people damaged? >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Mehgan Sidhu" >>> To: >>> Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 3:20 PM >>> Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target >>> >>> >>>> To answer the recent questions posted about the Target case, the final >>>> settlement hearing took place on March 9th. I understand from our >>>> counsel in California, Larry Paradis of DRA and Josh Konecky, that >>>> there >>>> were no objectors and the Judge was pleased with the resolution of the >>>> case. The settlement is not fully "final" until the time for any >>>> appeals has run - which is about 30 days. Given there were no >>>> objectors, >>>> it is highly unlikely that any appeals will be filed. The judge has >>>> not >>>> yet made a ruling on attorneys fees, but that will not hold up >>>> enforcement of the settlement. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> As for disbursements, assuming there are no appeals, the claims >>>> administer has 45 days from the final approval date to disburse funds >>>> to >>>> claimants. I do not know the final tally of approved claimants, though >>>> I >>>> think there were several hundred. I will pass that information along >>>> when I have it. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> We will now be working on enforcing the settlement commitments that >>>> Target made with respect to the accessibility of the website. >>>> >>>> >>>> Mehgan Sidhu >>>> Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP >>>> 120 East Baltimore Street, Suite 1700 >>>> Baltimore, Maryland 21202 >>>> 410-962-1030 x1324 >>>> 410-385-0869 (fax) >>>> ms at browngold.com >>>> www.browngold.com >>>> >>>> Confidentiality Notice >>>> >>>> This e-mail may contain confidential information that may also be >>>> legally >>>> privileged and that is intended only for the use of the addressee(s) >>>> named above. If you are not the intended recipient or an authorized >>>> agent of the recipient, please be advised that any dissemination or >>>> copying of this e-mail, or taking of any action in reliance on the >>>> information contained herein, is strictly prohibited. If you have >>>> received this e-mail in error, please notify me immediately by use of >>>> the >>>> reply button, and then delete the e-mail from your system. Thank you! >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in > sightbb.com >>> >>> >>> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---- >>> >>> >>> >>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>> Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release Date: >>> 03/13/09 >>> 05:59:00 >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dennisgclark%40sbc > global.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in > sightbb.com > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release Date: 03/13/09 > 05:59:00 > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. > com > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature > database 3936 (20090313) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature > database 3936 (20090313) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/2001 - Release Date: 03/14/09 06:54:00 From stevep.deeley at insightbb.com Sun Mar 15 18:58:35 2009 From: stevep.deeley at insightbb.com (Steve P. Deeley) Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 14:58:35 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target In-Reply-To: <20090314215546.GF82715@yumi.bluecherry.net> References: <549FC55C53E54BA5814FA71C231CE71F@StevePC> <489BACB231A24B1494701FE7E81396B8@StevePC> <78726D7BDC0D4E1EBBAE1E83A3D6FE14@StevePC> <20090314215546.GF82715@yumi.bluecherry.net> Message-ID: Nope. ----- Original Message ----- From: "T. Joseph Carter" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 5:55 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > Steve, > > I think you missed the whole point of what statutory damages are for. > > If I am doing something that could cost me $4,000 per person, per > incident, I'm not very likely to do it am I? California's lawmakers > (who arguably spend too much time in the Marijuana clinics if you > look at some of the hair-brained things they've tried to make law) > have decided to make the minimum amount of damage be $4,000 so that > people will not discriminate. Their thinking was that this was high > enough to convince them not to do it--or failing that a couple of > really high profile cases like ours with Target would make people > think twice. > > You can whine about the injustice of a huge cash payout to those > blind Californians lucky enough to have attempted to use Target's > website, but the fact remains that the payout is essentially how the > California government has decided to punish discrimination. > > I say good for them. If discrimination can be proven 36 years after > the Rehab Act and 18 years after the ADA, then obviously some people > stubbornly refuse to get the message. > > Joseph > > On Sat, Mar 14, 2009 at 09:24:24AM -0400, Steve P. Deeley wrote: >> That should not result in you receiving damages of almost $4,000.00. > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/2001 - Release Date: 03/14/09 06:54:00 From ukekearuaro at valtdnet.com Sun Mar 15 19:28:53 2009 From: ukekearuaro at valtdnet.com (Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc.) Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 13:28:53 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] CURRENCY IDENTIFICATION IMPLEMENTATION References: <33F75BFED8B0464E98F88836186BA75481CCED@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local> Message-ID: <27C60A2B4C174997AB3E3F73451B21C5@valtd> Hi Everyone: Does anyone have an idea when the Treasury Department will begin implementation of the currency identification by the blind? It is my understanding that the Court of Appeals DID REAFFIRM the lower court's position on the subject. How long does it take from the time of reaffirmation until final implementation? Mega thanks for any pointers!! Sincerely, Olusegun Denver, Colorado From JMcCarthy at nfb.org Sun Mar 15 19:43:17 2009 From: JMcCarthy at nfb.org (McCarthy, Jim) Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 15:43:17 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Multiple LSAT Scores In-Reply-To: <028501c9a596$a7c91360$7100a8c0@computer> Message-ID: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6B26D66D@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local> I take Craig's point, but I do think that the logic games or whatever they are called may actually measure one's ability to apply conditions. And though I hated those questions and found them difficult as a blind person not to mention just weird, I think that properly using conditions may be a valuable thing to do in law school and beyond as a lawyer. Now to the real point though, I imagine that regardless what the studies say about the predictive power of the LSAT, the one thing it possibly can do is rank candidates. There is so much variability among the higher education institutions of this country that grades are probably somewhat meaningless because we really don't know what kind of effort a student must put forward to get a particular grade at any particular institution. The possible answer to this is to make us all take the same dull test and compare us that way. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Craig Borne Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 1:51 PM To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Multiple LSAT Scores John, I agree. Never in my 3 1/2 years of law school was I asked to calculate how many green M and Ms would fit in a school locker. Craig Craig Borne Baltimore, Maryland "A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial appearance of being right, and raises at first a formidable outcry in defense of custom." --Thomas Paine, Common Sense -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of John Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 6:10 PM To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Multiple LSAT Scores It has been several years since I had the displeasure of taking the LSAT, but something I have always pondered about is this fictional belief that the LSAT score is an accurate predictor of how a student will do in his first year of law school. I personally believe that it is not a predictor of anything, much less, how a person will perform in law school. I am sure that there a thousand studies supporting and refuting this claim. I just find it interesting. Take care, John John A. Ramsey Jr., Esq. Gainesville, FL 32609 Phone: (352) 505-6642 -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Angie Matney Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 5:17 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: [blindlaw] Multiple LSAT Scores Here's what UVA's web site says: What is your policy on multiple LSAT scores? The ABA requires law schools to report LSAT information using an admitted students highest score, so that is the score to which we give the most weight. We evaluate all information submitted as part of the application for admission, however, including all scores earned on the LSAT. Studies by the Law School Admission Council suggest that in most cases the average score is the most accurate predictor of academic performance in the first year of law school, so we encourage applicants with a significant difference in LSAT scores to include with their application any information that may be relevant to the interpretation of test results, such as illness, testing conditions, or other circumstances that may have affected LSAT performance. _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joramsey%40cox .net _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdborne%40gmai l.co m _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jmccarthy%40nf b.org From stevep.deeley at insightbb.com Sun Mar 15 20:11:53 2009 From: stevep.deeley at insightbb.com (Steve P. Deeley) Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 16:11:53 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target In-Reply-To: <000401c9a584$dca448f0$95ecdad0$@net> References: <7DF12D30A7294ADEAA75754CE0751C02@labarre> <000401c9a584$dca448f0$95ecdad0$@net> Message-ID: I agree with that. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Spiry" To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 11:44 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target The world is unfortunately full of slow learners. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of James Pepper Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 11:41 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target Scott: What I do not get is why these companies are willing to go to court and spend all this money and put themselves into so much risk, when the solutions to these problems are actually just a matter of rolling up the sleeves and rebuilding the website. For instance I just took a look at the Target website. Right now as I type this it has 940 errors in its HTML code and 109 warnings according to the World Wide Web Consortium which sets the international standards the codes used to write websites. This is appalling! Their CSS errors are 38 errors, and 335 warnings. This means that they are not even up to the international standards for writing code properly. There is no excuse for this! The LSAT is using the wrong program to make their PDF files. They are using a program that fragments the content into such tiny pieces that the text cannot be put back together again. It is all gibberish. But this can be fixed! What I do not get is why this is such a problem for people to make their websites accessible? Why are they willing to fight in court, spend millions of dollars in settlement when the solutions are right in front of them! I am just amazed at the waste! James Pepper On Sat, Mar 14, 2009 at 9:19 PM, Scott C. LaBarre wrote: > The standards used are those of WCAG and Sec. 508. I did not work directly > on Target and cannot tell you exactly the access barriers. I can tell you > that with respect to filing applications to law schools through LSAC on > their website, it is impossible to fill those applications out independently > using screen reading softaware. Let me also assure list members that we > don't simply jump on a website, encounter difficulty, and then sue them the > next day. A lawsuit is the last resort when the entity is not willing to > deal with us otherwise. Just because we are a small minority does not mean > that our right to the mainstream of society must always be subservient to > the majority's unwillingness to consider us due to our small numbers. > Unless someone has a new point to be made on this topic, I respectfully > suggest that we move onto different discussions. Let's also agree to > disagree on certain points. > Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. > > LaBarre Law Offices P.C. > 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 > Denver, Colorado 80222 > 303 504-5979 (voice) > 303 757-3640 (fax) > slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) > www.labarrelaw.com (website) > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and > privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not > read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message > in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or > slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. This > message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic > Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Orozco" > To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" > Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 8:52 AM > > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > > What troubles me is that my question of accessibility standards has not > been > answered on the other case against the LSAC. The same question is > applicable here. What standard was used to conclude that the web site was > not accessible? I do not claim to be a genius at manipulating technology > to > serve my needs, but I did not have to try hard at all to make Target give > me > what I needed between 2005 and 2008. So is the problem the web site > layout, > or is it our own technology training? Rather than chase every entity with > features a few people deem inaccessible, would it not be prudent to take > our > standards, whatever those may be, to the classroom, to the software > developers, the relevant associations raising the performance standards of > its students and members? This method of engineering change gives us the > perception of a watchdog group. If this is what we have become, and given > the small margin of the population we represent, I would rather trigger > change at the source rather than at the output. > > Joe Orozco > > "A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the > crowd."--Max Lucado > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley > Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 9:24 AM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > That should not result in you receiving damages of almost $4,000.00. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 4:35 AM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > > As an individual I am insulted and damaged each time I am > discriminated by a > business not accommodating my ability to access their products > and services, > especially on the Internet when I have made sure that I have > accommodated > myself with the most up-to-date software to mitigate my needs as a blind > person. I should not have to rely on sighted assistance to use > a product or > do without because the greedy corporations has chosen the most expedient > road to sell their products. I am also insulted that you are > posting this > question. I have in my life time been sold out by too many > blind people that > thought they knew what I needed and I hope more companies will > have to pay > damages in these types of cases. Perhaps they will then learn > how to meet > the needs of all their customers. Fortunately here in California we have > some laws with some teeth in them that are > enforceable--although these teeth > still need a good sharpening. > Chuck > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. Deeley" < > stevep.deeley at insightbb.com> > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 6:22 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > > That is a lawyer talking who makes his living in rediculous > situations like > this one. Again, you show me how an individual was damaged and out > $4,000.00. > Steve > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott C. LaBarre" < > slabarre at labarrelaw.com> > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 5:38 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > > Violation of civil rights has long been recognized as a form of > compensible > legal damage as well it should be. > Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. > > LaBarre Law Offices P.C. > 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 > Denver, Colorado 80222 > 303 504-5979 (voice) > 303 757-3640 (fax) > slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) > www.labarrelaw.com (website) > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential > and privileged > information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read, > copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in > error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or > slabarre at labarrelaw.com, > and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and > any attachments > are covered by the Electronic > Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. Deeley" < > stevep.deeley at insightbb.com> > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 2:31 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > > This is ridiculous! How were these people damaged? >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mehgan Sidhu" >> To: >> Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 3:20 PM >> Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target >> >> >> To answer the recent questions posted about the Target case, >>> >> the final > >> settlement hearing took place on March 9th. I understand from our >>> counsel in California, Larry Paradis of DRA and Josh >>> >> Konecky, that there > >> were no objectors and the Judge was pleased with the >>> >> resolution of the > >> case. The settlement is not fully "final" until the time for any >>> appeals has run - which is about 30 days. Given there were >>> >> no objectors, > >> it is highly unlikely that any appeals will be filed. The >>> >> judge has not > >> yet made a ruling on attorneys fees, but that will not hold up >>> enforcement of the settlement. >>> >>> >>> >>> As for disbursements, assuming there are no appeals, the claims >>> administer has 45 days from the final approval date to >>> >> disburse funds to > >> claimants. I do not know the final tally of approved >>> >> claimants, though I > >> think there were several hundred. I will pass that information along >>> when I have it. >>> >>> >>> >>> We will now be working on enforcing the settlement commitments that >>> Target made with respect to the accessibility of the website. >>> >>> >>> Mehgan Sidhu >>> Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP >>> 120 East Baltimore Street, Suite 1700 >>> Baltimore, Maryland 21202 >>> 410-962-1030 x1324 >>> 410-385-0869 (fax) >>> ms at browngold.com >>> www.browngold.com >>> >>> Confidentiality Notice >>> >>> This e-mail may contain confidential information that may >>> >> also be legally > >> privileged and that is intended only for the use of the addressee(s) >>> named above. If you are not the intended recipient or an authorized >>> agent of the recipient, please be advised that any dissemination or >>> copying of this e-mail, or taking of any action in reliance on the >>> information contained herein, is strictly prohibited. If you have >>> received this e-mail in error, please notify me immediately >>> >> by use of the > >> reply button, and then delete the e-mail from your system. >>> >> Thank you! > >> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep > .deeley%40insightbb.com > >> >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------------- > >> >> >> >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release >> > Date: 03/13/09 > >> 05:59:00 >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/slabar > re%40labarrelaw.com > >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep > .deeley%40insightbb.com > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------------- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release > Date: 03/13/09 > 05:59:00 > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugm > an%40sbcglobal.net > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep > .deeley%40insightbb.com > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------------- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release > Date: 03/13/09 > 05:59:00 > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jsoroz > co%40gmail.com > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of > virus signature database 3936 (20090313) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature > database 3936 (20090313) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/slabarre%40labarre law.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b75205%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/bspiry%40comcast.n et _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/2001 - Release Date: 03/14/09 06:54:00 From stevep.deeley at insightbb.com Sun Mar 15 20:56:08 2009 From: stevep.deeley at insightbb.com (Steve P. Deeley) Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 16:56:08 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] LSAC Reader Settlement In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Rod, How would you suggest that I approach a bank who has a Web site that is not quite accessible. They want the user to type in a random code. Of course, the Window-eyes will not read the code. I've talked with them twice and they can't seem to understand how to fix the problem. I'm planning to have a AT professional speak with them in the near future. I really don't want to seem adversarial when I speak with them again. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rod Alcidonis" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 10:02 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAC Reader Settlement >I only hope that for that reason, Angie, that any settlement with them this > time has more teeth. Otherwise, we will be in the same place 5-10 years > down > the road. The LSAC has demonstrated times and again that they are not an > entity willing to abide by legal obligations. Not only in not publishing > their reader policy to test takers but in granting other accommodations -- > where there is no standard to guide the process. I had accommodations that > were granted to me because of blindness and denied to others also because > of > blindness. > > Rod Alcidonis > Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009. > Roger Williams University School of Law > 10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 > Bristol, RI 02809 > Cell: 718-704-4651 > Home: 401-824-8685 > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Angie Matney" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 6:41 AM > Subject: [blindlaw] LSAC Reader Settlement > > >> Did LSAC ever put anything up on their site concerning their reader >> policy? If memory serves, you had to request that this info be sent to >> you >> when I was applying. >> >> Angie >> >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/2001 - Release Date: 03/14/09 06:54:00 From stephanie_enyart at yahoo.com Sun Mar 15 21:32:15 2009 From: stephanie_enyart at yahoo.com (Stephanie Enyart) Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 14:32:15 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. lsac complaint In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000501c9a5b5$c00dc000$0401a8c0@DF5R2QD1> Dear Bill, I have a few suggestions for your LSAT preparation. 1) Consider buying a test prep course. Although they are costly, often they are worth it. Nearly all the students at my law school took prep courses and TestMasters was the most popular company. I did TestMasters and bought some individual tutoring to figure out how to address some of my disability-related needs. I know several blind law students/lawyers who used TestMasters or Kaplan. Both of these companies have experience dealing with blind students and can give you electronic copies of all their test material. One of the major distinctions between then is that TestMasters only uses former LSAT questions where Kaplan writes their own practice questions. The result is that if you took TestMasters, the practice material that is currently inaccessible and sold on the LSAC website is made accessible as a TestMasters student. Depending on what state you live in, I recommend working with Vocational Rehab to have this paid for as part of your voc rehab plan. 2) Convert the printed material sold by LSAT into accessible format. I'm unsure of whether you own a scanner and software like Kurzweil or Open book but you could scan any practice tests you buy from LSAC.org and make them accessible that way. If you don’t have a scanner and software, I highly recommend getting them before law school because they are extremely handy for bridging the gap between what your school can provide and what you need (like scanning any paper based items the school won't provide in electronic format). If this isn't possible right now, try to find a blind center (one of NFB's, a Lighthouse for the Blind, or even independent living center) where you could go and scan this. You could even turn to a local NFB chapter to see if there are any members who would allow you to use their assistive technology. 3) Borrow Braille practice tests from LSAC. I'm not sure if you're a Braille user but LSAC has around 9 practice tests that you can borrow three at a time once you've submitted your documentation for disability accommodations for the LSAT. This isn’t advertised or explained anywhere in their materials but if you call them and tell them you "know" there is a program to loan Braille tests, they won't deny this request. But there are a few things that make this option not ideal. Fist, there are only a few tests and generally people take a ton of them so it isn't a complete solution. Then, the really quirky thing about these tests is that they aren't titled -- they're lacking the title of which test you are actually taking (e.g. the June 2000 test or February 1999 test). If you're studying pretty hard and taking lots of practice tests, it is a pretty big bummer to plan to take a 7 plus hour practice test to then find out the one you're taking is one you've already done and you recognize the questions or you are taking a very old test that strays from how they're testing today. Plus, few blind people opt to take the test in Braille anyway -- roughly 5 a year -- so you might not want to practice in Braille if you aren't planning to take it in that medium. 4) Search Bookshare.org or RFBD for recent LSAT test prep material. Although I haven't checked lately, I know bookshare had some scanned versions of Kaplan materials. Just make sure you get something recent though because the test has evolved over time. I spoke with the head of Bookshare last week and they're very aware of the LSAT materials problem -- we just need a recent LSAT test taker who is a member of Bookshare to post their accessible stuff on that site . . . anyone out there? 5) Work with a reader to access printed material. Although this isn't the easiest thing to do, nor the cheapest, it may be the only option for you. Plus, if you are planning to take the test with one of their live readers, being used to practicing that way is helpful. If this is your method, certainly make sure you spend time advocating for Rehab to pay for it. I think I racked up around $7000 in reader fees when I was practicing (this was before TestMasters had electronic access to their materials so all my TestMasters homework was done with readers too). Remember, there has been at least one blind test taker who has successfully been granted the accommodation of taking the test on a computer with Jaws so if you want that, you'll need to fight for it and you might really want to do all your studying or as much as possible, in the medium you're going to use on test day. I hope this helps. I've done quite a bit of research on LSAT/law school admissions issues so don't hesitate to contact me off-list if you have any questions along the way. Best of luck in your studies, Stephanie Enyart -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Rod Alcidonis Sent: Thursday, March 12, 2009 11:32 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. lsac complaint Well, academically speaking, the law suit could have prayed for a Temporary Restraining Order, or a preliminary Injunction against the LSAC for folks like you. Basically enjoined the LSAC from administering the exam until they make the changes. The only difficulty with that I think justifies the reason they probably did not pray for such a relief is that such a measure would cause too much harm to the public, I.E, the thousands of law students and schools who rely on the exam to make admissions decisions. Such an order while it would have forced the LSAC to make the changes much faster, it would have unreasonably halted the system for some times. If it were a class action with thousands of members, it probably would have been easier to argue, I think. Whether not passing an exam for the first time is considered irreparable harm is another question -- you can still make the argument under these circumstances. Rod Alcidonis Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009. Roger Williams University School of Law 10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 Bristol, RI 02809 Cell: 718-704-4651 Home: 401-824-8685 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Spiry" To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2009 9:52 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. lsac complaint I understand. What might be done to getLSAC to authorize use of this material as an accessible alternative to what they have to offer? I know NFB is sueing them, but in the mean time that leaves folks like me who don't have the Adobe skills you have, and facing the LSAT soon without accessible matter. Any ideas or suggestions? Thanks. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of James Pepper Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 10:43 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. lsac complaint Well Bill the content is copyrighted by LSAC so I am not sure I can send this to you. Perhaps some on this list can give that advice. I laid it out properly. James On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 9:05 AM, Bill Spiry wrote: > I would appreciate receiving this as well. Thanks. > bspiry at comcast.net > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of James Pepper > Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 1:46 AM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. lsac complaint > > Scott: I laid out the first section of the LSAT to be accessible and I > can > send you the files if you would like to see it. Also I made the form that > they use accessible so the blind can fill out the test without assistance. > This works with JAWS and Window Eyes and a combination of Adobe's Read out > Loud and Microsoft Narrator. My process works and if you need references > at > NFB, AFB and the AAPD I can send them to you. > > It took a while to figure out how they made thier pdfs and I know where > they > are making their mistakes. I can correct this problem. These PDFs are made > to work natively with JAWS and Adobe Reader and the other screen readers > without making any adjustments. They work with the default settings in > Adobe Reader. > > Also the forms can be digitally signed and saved and all that fancy stuff > that you expect with Adobe Acrobat Professional can be done with > Adobe Reader, versions 8 or 9 which is the free download from Adobe.com. > So > we can make the LSAT accessible to anyone with a PC running Windows XP Or > VIsta without any change of settings. This means the PC can be there for > the sighted and the blind, with equal access for all. > > Also since I labeled everything, it will be a lot quicker for you to fill > out this test! > > Sincerely, > > James G. Pepper > > > > On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 4:32 PM, Scott C. LaBarre > wrote: > > > Below I am sharing the complaint that we filed today in California Court. > > ************** > > LaurEnce W. paradis (California Bar No. 122336) > > > > Anna levine (California Bar No. 227881) > > > > Disability Rights Advocates > > > > 2001 Center Street, Third Floor > > > > Berkeley, California 94704 > > > > Telephone: (510) 665-8644 > > > > Facsimile: (510) 665-8511 > > > > TTY: (510) 665-8716 > > > > > > > > SCOTT LABARRE (to seek pro hac vice admission) > > > > LABARRE LAW OFFICES, P.C. > > > > 1660 S. Albion Street, Ste 918 > > > > Denver, Colo 80222 > > > > Telephone: (303) 504-5979 > > > > Fax: (303) 757-3640 > > > > > > > > DANIEL F. GOLDSTEIN (to seek pro hac vice admission) > > > > MEHGAN Sidhu (to seek pro hac vice admission) > > > > Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP > > > > 120 E. Baltimore St., Suite 1700 > > > > Baltimore, MD 21202 > > > > Telephone: (410) 962-1030 > > > > Fax: (410) 385-0869 > > > > > > > > SUPERIOR COURT OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA > > COUNTY OF ALAMEDA > > > > > > > > National Federation of the Blind, the National Federation of the > Blind > > of CALIFORNIA, and DEEPA GORAYA, > > > > > > > > Plaintiffs, > > > > v. > > > > LAW SCHOOL ADMISSION COUNCIL, INC., > > > > Defendant. > > > > > > > > Case No.: > > > > > > > > > > > > COMPLAINT FOR INJUNCTIVE AND DECLARATORY RELIEF FOR VIOLATIONS OF > THE > > CALIFORNIA DISABLED PERSONS ACT AND UNRUH CIVIL RIGHTS ACT > > > > > > > > > > INTRODUCTION > > > > Plaintiffs complain of Defendant and allege herein as follows: > > > > 1. This action, brought by the National Federation of the Blind, > > the National Federation of the Blind of California, and Deepa Goraya, > seeks > > to put an end to civil rights violations committed by defendant Law > School > > Admissions Council (hereafter "LSAC") against blind persons seeking to > take > > the LSAT exam and apply to law schools. Plaintiff Deepa Goraya, a blind > law > > school applicant in California, has been and is being denied equal access > to > > the accommodations, advantages, and facilities LSAC provides its > > non-disabled customers through http://www.lsac.org (hereafter "lsac.org" > > and "the website"). Plaintiffs National Federation of the Blind and the > > National Federation of the Blind of California have members who are > > similarly denied full and equal access to such accommodations, advantages > > and facilities. Lsac.org is currently the only place online where > > prospective law students can register for the Law School Admissions Test > > ("LSAT"), apply to law schools, and obtain official LSAT test preparation > > materials and information. Lsac.org contains multiple access barriers > that > > make it difficult if not impossible for blind law school applicants and > LSAT > > test takers to use the website and to obtain practice materials without > > sighted assistance. LSAC thus excludes the blind, including Ms. Goraya, > > from full and equal access to the accommodations, advantages, facilities, > > and privileges of lsac.org. > > > > JURISDICTION > > > > 2. This is a civil action under California's Disabled Persons Act > > (Cal. Civ. Code §§ 54, et seq.) and the Unruh Civil Rights Act (Cal. Civ. > > Code §§ 51, et seq.) and for declaratory relief. This Court has > > jurisdiction over the claims alleged herein pursuant to California Civil > > Code §§ 54, et seq. and California Civil Code §§ 51, et seq. and > California > > Code of Civil Procedure section 1060. > > > > 3. This Court has jurisdiction over LSAC because LSAC is a > > corporation authorized to do business in California and LSAC conducts > > substantial business in California. LSAC owns, maintains and operates its > > website, lsac.org, throughout California and in Alameda County. > > > > > > > > VENUE > > > > 4. Venue is proper in Alameda County because liability arises in > > part in Alameda County, where the National Federation of the Blind of > > California has its headquarters. LSAC has been and is committing the > acts > > alleged herein in Alameda County, has been and is violating the rights of > > patrons in Alameda County, and has been and is causing injury to patrons > in > > Alameda County. > > > > 5. Plaintiff Goraya is a California citizen and has experienced > > injury in California as a result of LSAC's inaccessible website and > practice > > materials. > > > > PARTIES > > > > 6. Plaintiff the National Federation of the Blind (hereafter > "NFB") > > is a national advocacy organization. The NFB, the oldest and largest > > national organization of blind persons, is a non-profit corporation duly > > organized under the laws of the District of Columbia with its principal > > place of business in Baltimore, Maryland. It has affiliates in all 50 > > states (including California) as well as Washington, D.C. and Puerto > Rico. > > The vast majority of the approximately 50,000 members are blind persons. > > The NFB is widely recognized by the public, Congress, executive agencies > of > > government and the courts as a collective and representative voice on > behalf > > of blind Americans and their families. The purpose of the NFB is to > promote > > the general welfare of the blind by (1) assisting the blind in their > efforts > > to integrate themselves into society on terms of equality and (2) > removing > > barriers and changing social attitudes, stereotypes and mistaken beliefs > > that sighted and blind persons hold concerning the limitations created by > > blindness resulting in the denial of opportunity to blind persons in > > virtually every sphere of life. The NFB and many of its members have > long > > been actively involved in promoting adaptive technology for the blind, so > > that blind persons can live and work independently in today's > > technology-dependent world. NFB members reside throughout the United > > States, including the state of California, and many of its members would > use > > the services of lsac.org if this website is made independently usable by > > the blind. > > > > 7. Plaintiff the National Federation of the Blind of California > > (hereafter "NFB of California") is a state affiliate of the National > > Federation of the Blind. NFB of California is a California corporation > and > > carries out NFB's objectives at the state level. It has local chapters > > throughout California, including Alameda County, and has its headquarters > in > > Fremont, California, in Alameda County. > > > > 8. Plaintiff Goraya is a member of the NFB and the NFB of > > California. She is blind and has been denied full and equal access to > the > > accommodations, advantages, facilities and privileges of lsac.org. > > > > 9. Defendant LSAC, is a non-profit corporation > > established to coordinate, facilitate, and enhance the law school > admissions > > process. LSAC owns, operates and/or maintains the website lsac.com, a > > public accommodation. Plaintiffs seek access to the services provided by > > LSAC in California through lsac.org. > > > > FACTS > > > > 10. Lsac.org is owned, controlled and/or operated by LSAC. > Lsac.org > > is a public accommodation that offers its visitors comprehensive services > > for applying to law school. The website functions as the official > > destination for guiding prospective law school applicants through the > > fundamental steps of applying to law school. Among its services, > lsac.orgoffers information about the LSAT and law school application > process, and > > extensive LSAT preparation materials and resources. Lsac.org also serves > as > > the exclusive online means for registering for the LSAT and applying to > > ABA-accredited law schools. > > > > 11. According to the website, lsac.org's online services enable > > prospective law students to do the following, among other things: > > > > a.. Register for the LSAT > > b.. Register for the LSDAS (Law School Data Assembly Service) > > c.. Purchase publications and test preparation materials > > d.. Have access to electronic applications for all ABA-approved law > > schools > > e.. Apply online to law schools > > f.. Register for law school forums > > g.. Have 24-hour file access > > 12. In addition to facilitating the LSAT and law school application > > processes, a significant portion of the lsac.org website is devoted to > > preparing students to take the LSAT. Among the services offered in that > > regard are online information guides that explain how to prepare for the > > LSAT and free, downloadable sample practice tests and test questions. > > Lsac.org also offers for a fee an online LSAT practice test tool and the > > opportunity to purchase more than 40 official LSAT practice tests. > > > > 13. While sighted visitors to lsac.org can easily obtain the benefits > and > > advantages offered by the website, blind individuals, including Ms. > Goraya, > > have been and are being denied access to lsac.org due to LSAC's failure > > and refusal to remove access barriers to lsac.org. Specifically, blind > > visitors to the website, including Ms. Goraya, cannot independently apply > to > > law school, register for the LSAT, or obtain in an accessible format the > > LSAT preparation materials and practice tests available through lsac.org > . > > > > 14. The blind access websites by using keyboards in conjunction > with > > screen-reading software. This software vocalizes or conveys to a > refreshable > > Braille display information that appears visually on a computer screen. > > Unless websites are designed to allow for use in this manner, blind > persons > > are unable to fully access the internet websites and the information, > > products and services contained therein. > > > > 15. There are well-established guidelines for making websites > > accessible to the blind. These guidelines have been in place for at > least > > several years and have been followed successfully by other public > > accommodations in making their online services accessible. The Web > > Accessibility Initiative (WAI), a project of the World Wide Web > Consortium, > > which is the leading standards organization for the Web, has developed > > guidelines for making information that is reached via the internet > > accessible. The federal government has also promulgated accessibility > > standards under Section 508 of the Rehabilitation Act. These guidelines > > have long been readily available via the internet so that any public > > accommodation could easily secure the necessary information. > > > > 16. Lsac.org contains a variety of access barriers that prevent > free > > and full use by blind persons using keyboards and screen reading > software. > > These barriers include but are not limited to: lack of or improperly > > labeled form controls; faulty keyboard navigation; and use of tables and > > charts that are not formatted for accessibility. Form controls allow > users > > to input data on online forms and applications. These controls must be > > coded and labeled to allow screen-access software to detect and vocalize > the > > requested information. Keyboard navigation refers to the ability to > > successfully navigate a website using keyboard commands, as opposed to > > requiring a mouse as the exclusive means for navigation of the site. > > Further, charts and tables must be formatted to work with screen-access > > software. Much of the lsac.org website, and in particular the online > law > > school application and LSAT registration sections of the website, lack > these > > fundamental accessibility components. As a result, blind visitors to the > > website cannot independently use those and other critical features. > > > > 17. Lsac.org's test preparation materials that are available on the > > website in Adobe Portable Document (PDF) format, are not properly > "tagged." > > This means that the headings, paragraphs, tables, image descriptions and > > form controls are not easily discernable to screen-reading software. As > a > > result, these materials are cumbersome, if not impossible, for a blind > > visitor to navigate. > > > > 18. Finally, lsac.org fails to offer LSAT practice tests, > available > > as part of its test preparation services, in formats accessible to the > > blind. While the sighted can easily use the website to obtain more than > 40 > > formerly administered LSAT practice tests, the website fails to offer the > > opportunity to purchase these practice materials in formats accessible to > > the blind, such as Braille or an accessible electronic format. > > > > 19. As a result of lsac.org's accessibility barriers, blind law > > school applicants, including Ms. Goraya, must go over extraordinary > hurdles > > to register and prepare for the LSAT and to apply to law school compared > to > > their sighted counterparts. After unsuccessfully attempting to use > > lsac.org independently to register for the LSAT and fill out her law > > school applications, for example, Plaintiff Goraya was forced to select > and > > rely upon a reader for over 50 hours simply to read aloud the content of > the > > website and complete her law school applications. Moreover, none of the > > LSAT practice materials, which include previously administered versions > of > > the test, were available to her in accessible electronic formats. > Lsac.org > > thus contains numerous access barriers which deny full and equal access > to > > Plaintiff, who would otherwise use the accommodations, advantages, and > > facilities of lsac.org. > > > > 20. On December 10, 2008, Plaintiff National Federation of the > Blind > > notified LSAC of the unlawful accessibility barriers on its website. > LSAC > > responded by setting up and then canceling a meeting with the NFB. On > > January 22, 2009, the NFB notified LSAC that it intended to pursue legal > > action against LSAC for the unlawful barriers on its website. > > > > FIRST CAUSE OF ACTION > > > > (Violation of Cal. Civ. Code §§ 54, et seq. - the Disabled Persons Act) > > > > 21. The allegations contained in the previous paragraphs are > > incorporated by reference. > > > > 22. The Disabled Persons Act ("DPA") requires that individuals with > > disabilities have "full and equal access, as other members of the general > > public, to accommodations, advantages, facilities, . . . and other places > to > > which the general public is invited, subject only to the conditions and > > limitations established by law, or state or federal regulation, and > > applicable alike to all persons." Cal. Civ. Code 54.1(a)(1). > > > > 23. Lsac.org, which is owned, operated and/or maintained by LSAC, > is > > an > > > > accommodation, advantage, facility and/or place to which the general > public > > is invited, as those terms are used in Cal. Civ. Code § 54.1(a)(1). > > > > 24. Defendant's conduct alleged herein violates the DPA, including > > Cal. Civ. Code § 54.1(a)(1), by denying the Plaintiffs full and equal > access > > to the accommodations, advantages and facilities of lsac.org. > > > > 25. As a result of Defendant's conduct, the NFB, the NFB of > > California, and Ms. Goraya are entitled to injunctive relief requiring > > Defendant to make lsac.org accessible to blind individuals, and to make > > the LSAT test practice materials offered to lsac.org patrons available > to > > blind people in an accessible format. > > > > SECOND CAUSE OF ACTION > > > > (Violation of Cal.Civ. Code §§ 51, et seq. - The Unruh Act) > > > > 26. The allegations contained in the previous paragraphs are > > incorporated by reference. > > > > 27. California's Unruh Act requires that individuals with > > disabilities have "full and equal accommodations, advantages, facilities, > > privileges or services in all business establishments of every kind > > whatsoever." Cal. Civ. Code § 51(b). > > > > 28. LSAC and Lsac.org are business establishments as that term is > > used in Cal. Civ. Code § 51(b) and lsac.org is an accommodation, > > advantage, facility, privilege and service of LSAC. > > > > 29. Defendant's conduct alleged herein violates the Unruh Act, > > including Cal. Civ. Code § 51(b), by denying Plaintiffs the full and > equal > > accommodations, advantages, facilities, privileges or services of LSAC > and > > lsac.org. > > > > 30. Defendant violated the Unruh Act intentionally and/or with > > deliberate indifference to the likelihood that it was violating the > rights > > of blind people and/or Defendant's violations were so intuitive or > obvious > > that noncompliance could not be other than intentional. > > > > 31. As a result of Defendant's conduct, the NFB, the NFB of > > California, and Ms. Goraya are entitled to injunctive relief requiring > > Defendant to make lsac.org accessible to blind individuals, and to make > > the LSAT test practice materials offered to lsac.org patrons available > to > > blind people in an accessible format. > > > > > > > > THIRD CAUSE OF ACTION > > > > (Declaratory Relief, Cal. Civ. Proc. § 1060 ) > > > > 32. The allegations contained in the previous paragraphs are > > incorporated by reference. > > > > 33. On information and belief, Defendants contend that they may > > lawfully deny Plaintiffs access to their website and its contents. > > Plaintiffs contend that lsac.org, which LSAC owns, operates, and/or > > controls, must provide blind patrons access to its website and website > > contents under California Civil Code §§ 54, et seq. and California Civil > > Code §§ 51, et seq., which prohibit discrimination against the blind. > > > > 34. A judicial declaration is necessary and appropriate at this > time > > in order that each of the parties may know their respective rights and > > duties and act accordingly. > > > > WHEREFORE, Plaintiffs request relief as set forth below. > > > > RELIEF REQUESTED > > > > WHEREFORE, Plaintiffs pray for judgment as follows: > > > > 1. An order enjoining LSAC from violating California > > Civil Code §§ 51, et seq. and §§ 54, et seq.; > > > > 2. A declaration that LSAC is owning, maintaining > and/or > > operating lsac.org in a manner which discriminates against the blind and > > which fails to provide access for persons with disabilities as required > by > > law; > > > > 3. Plaintiffs' reasonable attorneys' fees and costs as > > authorized by California California Civil Code §§ 54, et seq., California > > Civil Code §§ 51, et seq., and pursuant to California Code of Civil > > Procedure § 1021.5. > > > > 4. Such other and further relief as the Court deems > just > > and proper. > > > > > > > > DATED: > > DISABILITY RIGHTS ADVOCATES > > > > > > > > > By: > > ____________________________ > > > > > > Laurence W. Paradis > > > > > > > > > > > > Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. > > > > LaBarre Law Offices P.C. > > 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 > > Denver, Colorado 80222 > > 303 504-5979 (voice) > > 303 757-3640 (fax) > > slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) > > www.labarrelaw.com (website) > > > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and > > privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may > not > > read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this > message > > in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or > > slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. > This > > message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic > > Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. > > _______________________________________________ > > blindlaw mailing list > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > blindlaw: > > > > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b75205%40gmail.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/bspiry%40comcast.n > et > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b75205%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/bspiry%40comcast.n et _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail. com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stephanie_enyart%4 0yahoo.com From lmilholland at hotmail.com Sun Mar 15 22:08:05 2009 From: lmilholland at hotmail.com (Locke Milholland) Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 18:08:05 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Multiple LSAT Scores References: <107BE7431F3C4AD3A26E7F337F75568A@noneeb869fea9a> Message-ID: "Nor did it matter which ship could dock at which port on which day." Except for that one torts case where the ship in the storm caused damage to the dock. Had it not been for my Princeton LSAT review, I would have briefed the court ruled choice A. instead of choice C. j/k. ----- Original Message ----- From: "John " To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 2:57 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Multiple LSAT Scores > Hello Craig, > Nor did it matter which ship could dock at which port on which day. As far > as the reading comprehension sections were concerned, the articles were > dull > and made me sleepy, but did not have any impact on my professor's being > equally dull. > Take care, > John > > John A. Ramsey Jr., Esq. > > Gainesville, FL 32609 > > Phone: (352) 505-6642 > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of Craig Borne > Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 1:51 PM > To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Multiple LSAT Scores > > > John, > > I agree. Never in my 3 1/2 years of law school was I asked to calculate > how > many green M and Ms would fit in a school locker. > > Craig > > Craig Borne > Baltimore, Maryland > "A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial > appearance of being right, and raises at first a formidable outcry in > defense of custom." --Thomas Paine, Common Sense > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of John > Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 6:10 PM > To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Multiple LSAT Scores > > It has been several years since I had the displeasure of taking the LSAT, > but something I have always pondered about is this fictional belief that > the > LSAT score is an accurate predictor of how a student will do in his first > year of law school. I personally believe that it is not a predictor of > anything, much less, how a person will perform in law school. I am sure > that > there a thousand studies supporting and refuting this claim. I just find > it > interesting. Take care, John > > John A. Ramsey Jr., Esq. > > Gainesville, FL 32609 > > Phone: (352) 505-6642 > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of Angie Matney > Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 5:17 PM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: [blindlaw] Multiple LSAT Scores > > > Here's what UVA's web site says: > > What is your policy on multiple LSAT scores? > The ABA requires law schools to report LSAT information using an admitted > students highest score, so that is the score to which we give the most > weight. We evaluate all information submitted as part of the application > for > admission, however, including all scores earned on the LSAT. Studies by > the > Law School Admission Council suggest that in most cases the average score > is > the most accurate predictor of academic performance in the first year of > law > school, so we encourage applicants with a significant difference in LSAT > scores to include with their application any information that may be > relevant to the interpretation of test results, such as illness, testing > conditions, or other circumstances that may have affected LSAT > performance. > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joramsey%40cox.net > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdborne%40gmail.co > m > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joramsey%40cox.net > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/lmilholland%40hotmail.com > From stephanie_enyart at yahoo.com Sun Mar 15 22:50:08 2009 From: stephanie_enyart at yahoo.com (Stephanie Enyart) Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 15:50:08 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Introduction In-Reply-To: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6B26D662@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local> Message-ID: <004401c9a5c0$64c25110$0401a8c0@DF5R2QD1> Welcome Mehgan! -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of McCarthy, Jim Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 12:24 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Introduction Mehgan, Welcome! You will certainly bring valuable discourse to our list. Jim McCarthy -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Mehgan Sidhu Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 2:52 PM To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org Subject: [blindlaw] Introduction Hello Listserv Members, I just joined the listserv so that I can share relevant information on this forum. I'm an attorney at Brown, Goldstein & Levy and one of several attorneys at the firm who represents the National Federation of the Blind on access technology and other litigation matters. I've been with the firm for about two-and-a-half years and have worked on the Target case, the Apple iTunes settlement, and other website, technology and education cases. Recently, I've been working with Scott LaBarre, Disability Rights Advocates, and others on the listserv in the action against the LSAC's inaccessible website and have been working more generally on issues related to access to e-books for the NFB. I look forward to sharing information that may be useful, particularly related to the access technology issues. Best, Mehgan Mehgan Sidhu Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP 120 East Baltimore Street, Suite 1700 Baltimore, Maryland 21202 410-962-1030 x1324 410-385-0869 (fax) ms at browngold.com www.browngold.com Confidentiality Notice This e-mail may contain confidential information that may also be legally privileged and that is intended only for the use of the addressee(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient or an authorized agent of the recipient, please be advised that any dissemination or copying of this e-mail, or taking of any action in reliance on the information contained herein, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify me immediately by use of the reply button, and then delete the e-mail from your system. Thank you! _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jmccarthy%40nf b.org _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stephanie_enyart%4 0yahoo.com From JMcCarthy at nfb.org Sun Mar 15 23:17:21 2009 From: JMcCarthy at nfb.org (McCarthy, Jim) Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 19:17:21 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. lsac complaint In-Reply-To: <000501c9a5b5$c00dc000$0401a8c0@DF5R2QD1> Message-ID: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6B26D671@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local> Stephanie, That is about as thorough an explanation on what those wanting to take the LSAT should consider that I have ever read. I wish you were older than me and could have given me that advice when I took the darned LSAT, but it worked out all right, I guess. Jim -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Stephanie Enyart Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 5:32 PM To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. lsac complaint Dear Bill, I have a few suggestions for your LSAT preparation. 1) Consider buying a test prep course. Although they are costly, often they are worth it. Nearly all the students at my law school took prep courses and TestMasters was the most popular company. I did TestMasters and bought some individual tutoring to figure out how to address some of my disability-related needs. I know several blind law students/lawyers who used TestMasters or Kaplan. Both of these companies have experience dealing with blind students and can give you electronic copies of all their test material. One of the major distinctions between then is that TestMasters only uses former LSAT questions where Kaplan writes their own practice questions. The result is that if you took TestMasters, the practice material that is currently inaccessible and sold on the LSAC website is made accessible as a TestMasters student. Depending on what state you live in, I recommend working with Vocational Rehab to have this paid for as part of your voc rehab plan. 2) Convert the printed material sold by LSAT into accessible format. I'm unsure of whether you own a scanner and software like Kurzweil or Open book but you could scan any practice tests you buy from LSAC.org and make them accessible that way. If you don't have a scanner and software, I highly recommend getting them before law school because they are extremely handy for bridging the gap between what your school can provide and what you need (like scanning any paper based items the school won't provide in electronic format). If this isn't possible right now, try to find a blind center (one of NFB's, a Lighthouse for the Blind, or even independent living center) where you could go and scan this. You could even turn to a local NFB chapter to see if there are any members who would allow you to use their assistive technology. 3) Borrow Braille practice tests from LSAC. I'm not sure if you're a Braille user but LSAC has around 9 practice tests that you can borrow three at a time once you've submitted your documentation for disability accommodations for the LSAT. This isn't advertised or explained anywhere in their materials but if you call them and tell them you "know" there is a program to loan Braille tests, they won't deny this request. But there are a few things that make this option not ideal. Fist, there are only a few tests and generally people take a ton of them so it isn't a complete solution. Then, the really quirky thing about these tests is that they aren't titled -- they're lacking the title of which test you are actually taking (e.g. the June 2000 test or February 1999 test). If you're studying pretty hard and taking lots of practice tests, it is a pretty big bummer to plan to take a 7 plus hour practice test to then find out the one you're taking is one you've already done and you recognize the questions or you are taking a very old test that strays from how they're testing today. Plus, few blind people opt to take the test in Braille anyway -- roughly 5 a year -- so you might not want to practice in Braille if you aren't planning to take it in that medium. 4) Search Bookshare.org or RFBD for recent LSAT test prep material. Although I haven't checked lately, I know bookshare had some scanned versions of Kaplan materials. Just make sure you get something recent though because the test has evolved over time. I spoke with the head of Bookshare last week and they're very aware of the LSAT materials problem -- we just need a recent LSAT test taker who is a member of Bookshare to post their accessible stuff on that site . . . anyone out there? 5) Work with a reader to access printed material. Although this isn't the easiest thing to do, nor the cheapest, it may be the only option for you. Plus, if you are planning to take the test with one of their live readers, being used to practicing that way is helpful. If this is your method, certainly make sure you spend time advocating for Rehab to pay for it. I think I racked up around $7000 in reader fees when I was practicing (this was before TestMasters had electronic access to their materials so all my TestMasters homework was done with readers too). Remember, there has been at least one blind test taker who has successfully been granted the accommodation of taking the test on a computer with Jaws so if you want that, you'll need to fight for it and you might really want to do all your studying or as much as possible, in the medium you're going to use on test day. I hope this helps. I've done quite a bit of research on LSAT/law school admissions issues so don't hesitate to contact me off-list if you have any questions along the way. Best of luck in your studies, Stephanie Enyart -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Rod Alcidonis Sent: Thursday, March 12, 2009 11:32 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. lsac complaint Well, academically speaking, the law suit could have prayed for a Temporary Restraining Order, or a preliminary Injunction against the LSAC for folks like you. Basically enjoined the LSAC from administering the exam until they make the changes. The only difficulty with that I think justifies the reason they probably did not pray for such a relief is that such a measure would cause too much harm to the public, I.E, the thousands of law students and schools who rely on the exam to make admissions decisions. Such an order while it would have forced the LSAC to make the changes much faster, it would have unreasonably halted the system for some times. If it were a class action with thousands of members, it probably would have been easier to argue, I think. Whether not passing an exam for the first time is considered irreparable harm is another question -- you can still make the argument under these circumstances. Rod Alcidonis Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009. Roger Williams University School of Law 10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 Bristol, RI 02809 Cell: 718-704-4651 Home: 401-824-8685 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Spiry" To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2009 9:52 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. lsac complaint I understand. What might be done to getLSAC to authorize use of this material as an accessible alternative to what they have to offer? I know NFB is sueing them, but in the mean time that leaves folks like me who don't have the Adobe skills you have, and facing the LSAT soon without accessible matter. Any ideas or suggestions? Thanks. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of James Pepper Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 10:43 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. lsac complaint Well Bill the content is copyrighted by LSAC so I am not sure I can send this to you. Perhaps some on this list can give that advice. I laid it out properly. James On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 9:05 AM, Bill Spiry wrote: > I would appreciate receiving this as well. Thanks. > bspiry at comcast.net > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of James Pepper > Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 1:46 AM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. lsac complaint > > Scott: I laid out the first section of the LSAT to be accessible and I > can > send you the files if you would like to see it. Also I made the form that > they use accessible so the blind can fill out the test without assistance. > This works with JAWS and Window Eyes and a combination of Adobe's Read out > Loud and Microsoft Narrator. My process works and if you need references > at > NFB, AFB and the AAPD I can send them to you. > > It took a while to figure out how they made thier pdfs and I know where > they > are making their mistakes. I can correct this problem. These PDFs are made > to work natively with JAWS and Adobe Reader and the other screen readers > without making any adjustments. They work with the default settings in > Adobe Reader. > > Also the forms can be digitally signed and saved and all that fancy stuff > that you expect with Adobe Acrobat Professional can be done with > Adobe Reader, versions 8 or 9 which is the free download from Adobe.com. > So > we can make the LSAT accessible to anyone with a PC running Windows XP Or > VIsta without any change of settings. This means the PC can be there for > the sighted and the blind, with equal access for all. > > Also since I labeled everything, it will be a lot quicker for you to fill > out this test! > > Sincerely, > > James G. Pepper > > > > On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 4:32 PM, Scott C. LaBarre > wrote: > > > Below I am sharing the complaint that we filed today in California Court. > > ************** > > LaurEnce W. paradis (California Bar No. 122336) > > > > Anna levine (California Bar No. 227881) > > > > Disability Rights Advocates > > > > 2001 Center Street, Third Floor > > > > Berkeley, California 94704 > > > > Telephone: (510) 665-8644 > > > > Facsimile: (510) 665-8511 > > > > TTY: (510) 665-8716 > > > > > > > > SCOTT LABARRE (to seek pro hac vice admission) > > > > LABARRE LAW OFFICES, P.C. > > > > 1660 S. Albion Street, Ste 918 > > > > Denver, Colo 80222 > > > > Telephone: (303) 504-5979 > > > > Fax: (303) 757-3640 > > > > > > > > DANIEL F. GOLDSTEIN (to seek pro hac vice admission) > > > > MEHGAN Sidhu (to seek pro hac vice admission) > > > > Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP > > > > 120 E. Baltimore St., Suite 1700 > > > > Baltimore, MD 21202 > > > > Telephone: (410) 962-1030 > > > > Fax: (410) 385-0869 > > > > > > > > SUPERIOR COURT OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA > > COUNTY OF ALAMEDA > > > > > > > > National Federation of the Blind, the National Federation of the > Blind > > of CALIFORNIA, and DEEPA GORAYA, > > > > > > > > Plaintiffs, > > > > v. > > > > LAW SCHOOL ADMISSION COUNCIL, INC., > > > > Defendant. > > > > > > > > Case No.: > > > > > > > > > > > > COMPLAINT FOR INJUNCTIVE AND DECLARATORY RELIEF FOR VIOLATIONS OF > THE > > CALIFORNIA DISABLED PERSONS ACT AND UNRUH CIVIL RIGHTS ACT > > > > > > > > > > INTRODUCTION > > > > Plaintiffs complain of Defendant and allege herein as follows: > > > > 1. This action, brought by the National Federation of the Blind, > > the National Federation of the Blind of California, and Deepa Goraya, > seeks > > to put an end to civil rights violations committed by defendant Law > School > > Admissions Council (hereafter "LSAC") against blind persons seeking to > take > > the LSAT exam and apply to law schools. Plaintiff Deepa Goraya, a blind > law > > school applicant in California, has been and is being denied equal access > to > > the accommodations, advantages, and facilities LSAC provides its > > non-disabled customers through http://www.lsac.org (hereafter "lsac.org" > > and "the website"). Plaintiffs National Federation of the Blind and the > > National Federation of the Blind of California have members who are > > similarly denied full and equal access to such accommodations, advantages > > and facilities. Lsac.org is currently the only place online where > > prospective law students can register for the Law School Admissions Test > > ("LSAT"), apply to law schools, and obtain official LSAT test preparation > > materials and information. Lsac.org contains multiple access barriers > that > > make it difficult if not impossible for blind law school applicants and > LSAT > > test takers to use the website and to obtain practice materials without > > sighted assistance. LSAC thus excludes the blind, including Ms. Goraya, > > from full and equal access to the accommodations, advantages, facilities, > > and privileges of lsac.org. > > > > JURISDICTION > > > > 2. This is a civil action under California's Disabled Persons Act > > (Cal. Civ. Code §§ 54, et seq.) and the Unruh Civil Rights Act (Cal. Civ. > > Code §§ 51, et seq.) and for declaratory relief. This Court has > > jurisdiction over the claims alleged herein pursuant to California Civil > > Code §§ 54, et seq. and California Civil Code §§ 51, et seq. and > California > > Code of Civil Procedure section 1060. > > > > 3. This Court has jurisdiction over LSAC because LSAC is a > > corporation authorized to do business in California and LSAC conducts > > substantial business in California. LSAC owns, maintains and operates its > > website, lsac.org, throughout California and in Alameda County. > > > > > > > > VENUE > > > > 4. Venue is proper in Alameda County because liability arises in > > part in Alameda County, where the National Federation of the Blind of > > California has its headquarters. LSAC has been and is committing the > acts > > alleged herein in Alameda County, has been and is violating the rights of > > patrons in Alameda County, and has been and is causing injury to patrons > in > > Alameda County. > > > > 5. Plaintiff Goraya is a California citizen and has experienced > > injury in California as a result of LSAC's inaccessible website and > practice > > materials. > > > > PARTIES > > > > 6. Plaintiff the National Federation of the Blind (hereafter > "NFB") > > is a national advocacy organization. The NFB, the oldest and largest > > national organization of blind persons, is a non-profit corporation duly > > organized under the laws of the District of Columbia with its principal > > place of business in Baltimore, Maryland. It has affiliates in all 50 > > states (including California) as well as Washington, D.C. and Puerto > Rico. > > The vast majority of the approximately 50,000 members are blind persons. > > The NFB is widely recognized by the public, Congress, executive agencies > of > > government and the courts as a collective and representative voice on > behalf > > of blind Americans and their families. The purpose of the NFB is to > promote > > the general welfare of the blind by (1) assisting the blind in their > efforts > > to integrate themselves into society on terms of equality and (2) > removing > > barriers and changing social attitudes, stereotypes and mistaken beliefs > > that sighted and blind persons hold concerning the limitations created by > > blindness resulting in the denial of opportunity to blind persons in > > virtually every sphere of life. The NFB and many of its members have > long > > been actively involved in promoting adaptive technology for the blind, so > > that blind persons can live and work independently in today's > > technology-dependent world. NFB members reside throughout the United > > States, including the state of California, and many of its members would > use > > the services of lsac.org if this website is made independently usable by > > the blind. > > > > 7. Plaintiff the National Federation of the Blind of California > > (hereafter "NFB of California") is a state affiliate of the National > > Federation of the Blind. NFB of California is a California corporation > and > > carries out NFB's objectives at the state level. It has local chapters > > throughout California, including Alameda County, and has its headquarters > in > > Fremont, California, in Alameda County. > > > > 8. Plaintiff Goraya is a member of the NFB and the NFB of > > California. She is blind and has been denied full and equal access to > the > > accommodations, advantages, facilities and privileges of lsac.org. > > > > 9. Defendant LSAC, is a non-profit corporation > > established to coordinate, facilitate, and enhance the law school > admissions > > process. LSAC owns, operates and/or maintains the website lsac.com, a > > public accommodation. Plaintiffs seek access to the services provided by > > LSAC in California through lsac.org. > > > > FACTS > > > > 10. Lsac.org is owned, controlled and/or operated by LSAC. > Lsac.org > > is a public accommodation that offers its visitors comprehensive services > > for applying to law school. The website functions as the official > > destination for guiding prospective law school applicants through the > > fundamental steps of applying to law school. Among its services, > lsac.orgoffers information about the LSAT and law school application > process, and > > extensive LSAT preparation materials and resources. Lsac.org also serves > as > > the exclusive online means for registering for the LSAT and applying to > > ABA-accredited law schools. > > > > 11. According to the website, lsac.org's online services enable > > prospective law students to do the following, among other things: > > > > a.. Register for the LSAT > > b.. Register for the LSDAS (Law School Data Assembly Service) > > c.. Purchase publications and test preparation materials > > d.. Have access to electronic applications for all ABA-approved law > > schools > > e.. Apply online to law schools > > f.. Register for law school forums > > g.. Have 24-hour file access > > 12. In addition to facilitating the LSAT and law school application > > processes, a significant portion of the lsac.org website is devoted to > > preparing students to take the LSAT. Among the services offered in that > > regard are online information guides that explain how to prepare for the > > LSAT and free, downloadable sample practice tests and test questions. > > Lsac.org also offers for a fee an online LSAT practice test tool and the > > opportunity to purchase more than 40 official LSAT practice tests. > > > > 13. While sighted visitors to lsac.org can easily obtain the benefits > and > > advantages offered by the website, blind individuals, including Ms. > Goraya, > > have been and are being denied access to lsac.org due to LSAC's failure > > and refusal to remove access barriers to lsac.org. Specifically, blind > > visitors to the website, including Ms. Goraya, cannot independently apply > to > > law school, register for the LSAT, or obtain in an accessible format the > > LSAT preparation materials and practice tests available through lsac.org > . > > > > 14. The blind access websites by using keyboards in conjunction > with > > screen-reading software. This software vocalizes or conveys to a > refreshable > > Braille display information that appears visually on a computer screen. > > Unless websites are designed to allow for use in this manner, blind > persons > > are unable to fully access the internet websites and the information, > > products and services contained therein. > > > > 15. There are well-established guidelines for making websites > > accessible to the blind. These guidelines have been in place for at > least > > several years and have been followed successfully by other public > > accommodations in making their online services accessible. The Web > > Accessibility Initiative (WAI), a project of the World Wide Web > Consortium, > > which is the leading standards organization for the Web, has developed > > guidelines for making information that is reached via the internet > > accessible. The federal government has also promulgated accessibility > > standards under Section 508 of the Rehabilitation Act. These guidelines > > have long been readily available via the internet so that any public > > accommodation could easily secure the necessary information. > > > > 16. Lsac.org contains a variety of access barriers that prevent > free > > and full use by blind persons using keyboards and screen reading > software. > > These barriers include but are not limited to: lack of or improperly > > labeled form controls; faulty keyboard navigation; and use of tables and > > charts that are not formatted for accessibility. Form controls allow > users > > to input data on online forms and applications. These controls must be > > coded and labeled to allow screen-access software to detect and vocalize > the > > requested information. Keyboard navigation refers to the ability to > > successfully navigate a website using keyboard commands, as opposed to > > requiring a mouse as the exclusive means for navigation of the site. > > Further, charts and tables must be formatted to work with screen-access > > software. Much of the lsac.org website, and in particular the online > law > > school application and LSAT registration sections of the website, lack > these > > fundamental accessibility components. As a result, blind visitors to the > > website cannot independently use those and other critical features. > > > > 17. Lsac.org's test preparation materials that are available on the > > website in Adobe Portable Document (PDF) format, are not properly > "tagged." > > This means that the headings, paragraphs, tables, image descriptions and > > form controls are not easily discernable to screen-reading software. As > a > > result, these materials are cumbersome, if not impossible, for a blind > > visitor to navigate. > > > > 18. Finally, lsac.org fails to offer LSAT practice tests, > available > > as part of its test preparation services, in formats accessible to the > > blind. While the sighted can easily use the website to obtain more than > 40 > > formerly administered LSAT practice tests, the website fails to offer the > > opportunity to purchase these practice materials in formats accessible to > > the blind, such as Braille or an accessible electronic format. > > > > 19. As a result of lsac.org's accessibility barriers, blind law > > school applicants, including Ms. Goraya, must go over extraordinary > hurdles > > to register and prepare for the LSAT and to apply to law school compared > to > > their sighted counterparts. After unsuccessfully attempting to use > > lsac.org independently to register for the LSAT and fill out her law > > school applications, for example, Plaintiff Goraya was forced to select > and > > rely upon a reader for over 50 hours simply to read aloud the content of > the > > website and complete her law school applications. Moreover, none of the > > LSAT practice materials, which include previously administered versions > of > > the test, were available to her in accessible electronic formats. > Lsac.org > > thus contains numerous access barriers which deny full and equal access > to > > Plaintiff, who would otherwise use the accommodations, advantages, and > > facilities of lsac.org. > > > > 20. On December 10, 2008, Plaintiff National Federation of the > Blind > > notified LSAC of the unlawful accessibility barriers on its website. > LSAC > > responded by setting up and then canceling a meeting with the NFB. On > > January 22, 2009, the NFB notified LSAC that it intended to pursue legal > > action against LSAC for the unlawful barriers on its website. > > > > FIRST CAUSE OF ACTION > > > > (Violation of Cal. Civ. Code §§ 54, et seq. - the Disabled Persons Act) > > > > 21. The allegations contained in the previous paragraphs are > > incorporated by reference. > > > > 22. The Disabled Persons Act ("DPA") requires that individuals with > > disabilities have "full and equal access, as other members of the general > > public, to accommodations, advantages, facilities, . . . and other places > to > > which the general public is invited, subject only to the conditions and > > limitations established by law, or state or federal regulation, and > > applicable alike to all persons." Cal. Civ. Code 54.1(a)(1). > > > > 23. Lsac.org, which is owned, operated and/or maintained by LSAC, > is > > an > > > > accommodation, advantage, facility and/or place to which the general > public > > is invited, as those terms are used in Cal. Civ. Code § 54.1(a)(1). > > > > 24. Defendant's conduct alleged herein violates the DPA, including > > Cal. Civ. Code § 54.1(a)(1), by denying the Plaintiffs full and equal > access > > to the accommodations, advantages and facilities of lsac.org. > > > > 25. As a result of Defendant's conduct, the NFB, the NFB of > > California, and Ms. Goraya are entitled to injunctive relief requiring > > Defendant to make lsac.org accessible to blind individuals, and to make > > the LSAT test practice materials offered to lsac.org patrons available > to > > blind people in an accessible format. > > > > SECOND CAUSE OF ACTION > > > > (Violation of Cal.Civ. Code §§ 51, et seq. - The Unruh Act) > > > > 26. The allegations contained in the previous paragraphs are > > incorporated by reference. > > > > 27. California's Unruh Act requires that individuals with > > disabilities have "full and equal accommodations, advantages, facilities, > > privileges or services in all business establishments of every kind > > whatsoever." Cal. Civ. Code § 51(b). > > > > 28. LSAC and Lsac.org are business establishments as that term is > > used in Cal. Civ. Code § 51(b) and lsac.org is an accommodation, > > advantage, facility, privilege and service of LSAC. > > > > 29. Defendant's conduct alleged herein violates the Unruh Act, > > including Cal. Civ. Code § 51(b), by denying Plaintiffs the full and > equal > > accommodations, advantages, facilities, privileges or services of LSAC > and > > lsac.org. > > > > 30. Defendant violated the Unruh Act intentionally and/or with > > deliberate indifference to the likelihood that it was violating the > rights > > of blind people and/or Defendant's violations were so intuitive or > obvious > > that noncompliance could not be other than intentional. > > > > 31. As a result of Defendant's conduct, the NFB, the NFB of > > California, and Ms. Goraya are entitled to injunctive relief requiring > > Defendant to make lsac.org accessible to blind individuals, and to make > > the LSAT test practice materials offered to lsac.org patrons available > to > > blind people in an accessible format. > > > > > > > > THIRD CAUSE OF ACTION > > > > (Declaratory Relief, Cal. Civ. Proc. § 1060 ) > > > > 32. The allegations contained in the previous paragraphs are > > incorporated by reference. > > > > 33. On information and belief, Defendants contend that they may > > lawfully deny Plaintiffs access to their website and its contents. > > Plaintiffs contend that lsac.org, which LSAC owns, operates, and/or > > controls, must provide blind patrons access to its website and website > > contents under California Civil Code §§ 54, et seq. and California Civil > > Code §§ 51, et seq., which prohibit discrimination against the blind. > > > > 34. A judicial declaration is necessary and appropriate at this > time > > in order that each of the parties may know their respective rights and > > duties and act accordingly. > > > > WHEREFORE, Plaintiffs request relief as set forth below. > > > > RELIEF REQUESTED > > > > WHEREFORE, Plaintiffs pray for judgment as follows: > > > > 1. An order enjoining LSAC from violating California > > Civil Code §§ 51, et seq. and §§ 54, et seq.; > > > > 2. A declaration that LSAC is owning, maintaining > and/or > > operating lsac.org in a manner which discriminates against the blind and > > which fails to provide access for persons with disabilities as required > by > > law; > > > > 3. Plaintiffs' reasonable attorneys' fees and costs as > > authorized by California California Civil Code §§ 54, et seq., California > > Civil Code §§ 51, et seq., and pursuant to California Code of Civil > > Procedure § 1021.5. > > > > 4. Such other and further relief as the Court deems > just > > and proper. > > > > > > > > DATED: > > DISABILITY RIGHTS ADVOCATES > > > > > > > > > By: > > ____________________________ > > > > > > Laurence W. Paradis > > > > > > > > > > > > Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. > > > > LaBarre Law Offices P.C. > > 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 > > Denver, Colorado 80222 > > 303 504-5979 (voice) > > 303 757-3640 (fax) > > slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) > > www.labarrelaw.com (website) > > > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and > > privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may > not > > read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this > message > > in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or > > slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. > This > > message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic > > Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. > > _______________________________________________ > > blindlaw mailing list > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > blindlaw: > > > > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b75205%40gmail.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/bspiry%40comcast.n > et > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b75205%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/bspiry%40comcast.n et _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail. com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stephanie_enyart%4 0yahoo.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jmccarthy%40nfb.org From angie at mpmail.net Mon Mar 16 00:50:53 2009 From: angie at mpmail.net (Angie Matney) Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 20:50:53 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Multiple LSAT Scores In-Reply-To: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6B26D66D@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local> Message-ID: I guess I'm solidly in the minority: I liked the logic games. In fact, I think I got a perfect score on that section. This might have been due in part to all those years I wasted--er, spent in math grad school. (grin) Angie On Sun, 15 Mar 2009 15:43:17 -0400, McCarthy, Jim wrote: >I take Craig's point, but I do think that the logic games or whatever >they are called may actually measure one's ability to apply conditions. >And though I hated those questions and found them difficult as a blind >person not to mention just weird, I think that properly using conditions >may be a valuable thing to do in law school and beyond as a lawyer. >Now to the real point though, I imagine that regardless what the studies >say about the predictive power of the LSAT, the one thing it possibly >can do is rank candidates. There is so much variability among the >higher education institutions of this country that grades are probably >somewhat meaningless because we really don't know what kind of effort a >student must put forward to get a particular grade at any particular >institution. The possible answer to this is to make us all take the >same dull test and compare us that way. >-----Original Message----- >From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >On Behalf Of Craig Borne >Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 1:51 PM >To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' >Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Multiple LSAT Scores >John, >I agree. Never in my 3 1/2 years of law school was I asked to calculate >how many green M and Ms would fit in a school locker. >Craig >Craig Borne >Baltimore, Maryland >"A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial >appearance of being right, and raises at first a formidable outcry in >defense of custom." --Thomas Paine, Common Sense >-----Original Message----- >From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >On Behalf Of John >Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 6:10 PM >To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' >Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Multiple LSAT Scores >It has been several years since I had the displeasure of taking the >LSAT, but something I have always pondered about is this fictional >belief that the LSAT score is an accurate predictor of how a student >will do in his first year of law school. I personally believe that it is >not a predictor of anything, much less, how a person will perform in law >school. >I am sure that there a thousand studies supporting and refuting this >claim. >I just find it interesting. >Take care, >John >John A. Ramsey Jr., Esq. >Gainesville, FL 32609 >Phone: (352) 505-6642 >-----Original Message----- >From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >On Behalf Of Angie Matney >Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 5:17 PM >To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >Subject: [blindlaw] Multiple LSAT Scores >Here's what UVA's web site says: >What is your policy on multiple LSAT scores? >The ABA requires law schools to report LSAT information using an >admitted students highest score, so that is the score to which we give >the most weight. We evaluate all information submitted as part of the >application for admission, however, including all scores earned on the >LSAT. Studies by the Law School Admission Council suggest that in most >cases the average score is the most accurate predictor of academic >performance in the first year of law school, so we encourage applicants >with a significant difference in LSAT scores to include with their >application any information that may be relevant to the interpretation >of test results, such as illness, testing conditions, or other >circumstances that may have affected LSAT performance. >_______________________________________________ >blindlaw mailing list >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >blindlaw: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joramsey%40cox >.net >_______________________________________________ >blindlaw mailing list >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >blindlaw: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdborne%40gmai >l.co >m >_______________________________________________ >blindlaw mailing list >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >blindlaw: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jmccarthy%40nf >b.org >_______________________________________________ >blindlaw mailing list >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie%40mpmail.net From jsorozco at gmail.com Mon Mar 16 01:11:48 2009 From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco) Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 21:11:48 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Angie, Forgive the lack of clarification on my part. When I referred to nipping the problem in the bud and focusing on classrooms, I meant concentrating on students learning how to develop sites in the first place. Litigation is costly and can take years. By the time a settlement is achieved further down the road the landscape of web accessibility has changed to encompass issues that may not have been an issue in the original case. Packages like DreamWeaver are already offering features to increase accessibility. I simply believe it would behoove us to refocus our efforts at targeting the source of the evolving Internet rather than isolating a few companies at a time. I am not defending the lack of cooperation of some entities. I am saying our priorities should be laid out in such a way that maximizes the money the membership raises to make such litigation possible. On the same point about priorities, I believe a greater priority would have been our access to the disability department at the LSAC that goes beyond an e-mail address. Bill, No matter how minimal the task may be for the party on the other end, we are always going to be competing with the expansion of technology. You say it is not fair that blind people should have to develop special ways of gaining accessibility. I agree, but we already do this in everyday life. If we are gauging success on the elimination of special techniques we will forever be chasing the next barrier and the barrier after that. There is no such thing as simple service, because the Internet itself is not a simple domain. Up to a point it really is up to individuals to learn how to remain caught up with the latest methods of accessing the same information as sighted peers. Perhaps we could do more to stimulate a dialogue between adaptive technology companies and major software manufacturers. Scott, Is it true that the WCAG was last revised in 1999? Am I mistaken in my perception that Section 508 is singularly dealing with government agencies? These are genuine points of information I would like addressed so that I am explaining the situation accurately to other individuals. It would also help me better understand the role of these standards across the cases the organization has taken up. At first glance it would appear the documents are not fully accounting for the ever growing spectrum of Internet accessibility such as those elements introduced in the Web 2.0 era alone, but even if these documents are somehow written in such a way as to dictate every possible technological scenario imaginable, how do we begin to determine where the line of company responsibility ends and personal obligation begins. A blind person may very well have difficulty navigating even a web site that meets every standard imaginable. Can that person claim a wrong was committed because they themselves are incapable of navigating the site? On that point, I believe a survey was supposedly distributed among prospective law students asking for feedback on their experience with the LSAC. I submitted a request for a copy of that survey and never received a response. My feelings aren't hurt that my input was not collected, but I would be curious to learn the results of said survey. What trends were discovered, and how did these patterns correspond to our general standard of pursuing formal action against a company? The organization may not be stumbling across web sites, finding them inaccessible and litigating the next day, but it's a hard case to prove when it seems we are in a continuous state of isolating one company after another. What have we achieved with each case? How, for example, has our work on the Target matter translated over to other major retailers and the Internet as a whole? How much has it cost to carry the Target case from beginning to present? No, our small numbers does not give the majority the right to trample our rights. No one has argued to the contrary, but because we are smaller in numbers we should exercise prudence in how we exhaust time and money on the issue because web accessibility is not the only item on our radar. I would respectfully ask you in return that you allow time for these questions to be answered rather than encourage the subject off the list and increase the risk of ignorance among the membership. James, What I do not get is why the strength of the Jernigan Institute has not been exercised to provide training to companies and developers on what constitutes proper accessibility. Dave, I've made purchases on Target since 2005. I have never required sighted assistance, nor have I ever needed to call their telephone line to require assistance. I have never encountered an invisible button. Does this mean this invisible button does not exist? Certainly not, but I also did not think that one's web site viewing changed according to one's geography. Again, this is an educational point for me, because maybe different screen readers and different physical locations count for something. Actually, that raises an interesting point because not all screen readers are built equally. Are we relying on a fixed level of screen reader capacity, or is my persistent request for common standards simply just too much. In closing, I am not sympathetic to companies that do not cooperate with us when problems are found. I am saying that long-term strategies are necessary to deliver bigger impacts with our treasury. I enjoy a good fight as much as the next hawk, but in the oscillating arena of technology I believe there is a point where we have to assume the role of the educator and do more to bring about solutions at the foundation level rather than at the top where both sides are expending valuable resources on a case that could have been resolved a lot sooner. Joe Orozco "A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the crowd."--Max Lucado -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of David Andrews Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 2:11 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target Scott, Joe etc., The question of the Target site has come up, and Joe says he was able to use it. This very well could be true, as sometimes everything went fine. However, there were instances when the site put up on the screen a "purchase button" that was totally invisible to screen readers. Unless you clicked it, you could not finalize your purchase. It was not used for all purchases, but was for some. I know as it happened to me. Unfortunately I do not live in California. Anyway, if Joe didn't go all the way to making a purchase, or happened not to encounter the invisible button, then he would think the site was accessible. Dave At 10:19 PM 3/14/2009, you wrote: >The standards used are those of WCAG and Sec. >508. I did not work directly on Target and cannot tell you exactly the >access barriers. I can tell you that with respect to filing >applications to law schools through LSAC on their website, it is >impossible to fill those applications out independently using screen >reading softaware. Let me also assure list members that we don't >simply jump on a website, encounter difficulty, and then sue them the >next day. A lawsuit is the last resort when the entity is not willing >to deal with us otherwise. Just because we are a small minority does >not mean that our right to the mainstream of society must always be >subservient to the majority's unwillingness to consider us due to our >small numbers. Unless someone has a new point to be made on this >topic, I respectfully suggest that we move onto different discussions. >Let's also agree to disagree on certain points. >Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. > >LaBarre Law Offices P.C. >1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 >Denver, Colorado 80222 >303 504-5979 (voice) >303 757-3640 (fax) >slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) >www.labarrelaw.com (website) > >CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and >privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you >may not read, copy, distribute or retain this message. >If you received this message in error, please notify the sender at 303) >504-5979 or slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from >your system. This message and any attachments are covered by the >Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. >----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Orozco" >To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" >Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 8:52 AM >Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > >What troubles me is that my question of accessibility standards has not >been answered on the other case against the LSAC. The same question is >applicable here. What standard was used to conclude that the web site >was not accessible? I do not claim to be a genius at manipulating >technology to serve my needs, but I did not have to try hard at all to >make Target give me what I needed between 2005 and 2008. So is the >problem the web site layout, or is it our own technology training? >Rather than chase every entity with features a few people deem >inaccessible, would it not be prudent to take our standards, whatever >those may be, to the classroom, to the software developers, the >relevant associations raising the performance standards of its students >and members? This method of engineering change gives us the perception >of a watchdog group. If this is what we have become, and given the >small margin of the population we represent, I would rather trigger change at the source rather than at the output. > >Joe Orozco > >"A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the >crowd."--Max Lucado > >-----Original Message----- >From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org >[mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley >Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 9:24 AM >To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > >That should not result in you receiving damages of almost $4,000.00. >----- Original Message ----- >From: >To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 4:35 AM >Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > >As an individual I am insulted and damaged each time I am discriminated >by a business not accommodating my ability to access their products and >services, especially on the Internet when I have made sure that I have >accommodated myself with the most up-to-date software to mitigate my >needs as a blind person. I should not have to rely on sighted >assistance to use a product or do without because the greedy >corporations has chosen the most expedient road to sell their products. >I am also insulted that you are posting this question. I have in my >life time been sold out by too many blind people that thought they knew >what I needed and I hope more companies will have to pay damages in >these types of cases. Perhaps they will then learn how to meet the >needs of all their customers. Fortunately here in California we have >some laws with some teeth in them that are enforceable--although these >teeth still need a good sharpening. >Chuck >----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. >Deeley" >To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 6:22 PM >Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > >That is a lawyer talking who makes his living in rediculous situations >like this one. Again, you show me how an individual was damaged and >out $4,000.00. >Steve >----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott C. >LaBarre" >To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 5:38 PM >Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > >Violation of civil rights has long been recognized as a form of >compensible legal damage as well it should be. >Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. > >LaBarre Law Offices P.C. >1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 >Denver, Colorado 80222 >303 504-5979 (voice) >303 757-3640 (fax) >slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) >www.labarrelaw.com (website) > >CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and >privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you >may not read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received >this message in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or >slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. >This message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic >Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. >----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. >Deeley" >To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 2:31 PM >Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > >>This is ridiculous! How were these people damaged? >>----- Original Message ----- From: "Mehgan Sidhu" >>To: >>Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 3:20 PM >>Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target >> >> >>>To answer the recent questions posted about the Target case, >the final >>>settlement hearing took place on March 9th. I understand from our >>>counsel in California, Larry Paradis of DRA and Josh >Konecky, that there >>>were no objectors and the Judge was pleased with the >resolution of the >>>case. The settlement is not fully "final" until the time for any >>>appeals has run - which is about 30 days. Given there were >no objectors, >>>it is highly unlikely that any appeals will be filed. The >judge has not >>>yet made a ruling on attorneys fees, but that will not hold up >>>enforcement of the settlement. >>> >>> >>> >>>As for disbursements, assuming there are no appeals, the claims >>>administer has 45 days from the final approval date to >disburse funds to >>>claimants. I do not know the final tally of approved >claimants, though I >>>think there were several hundred. I will pass that information along >>>when I have it. >>> >>> >>> >>>We will now be working on enforcing the settlement commitments that >>>Target made with respect to the accessibility of the website. >>> >>> >>>Mehgan Sidhu >>>Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP >>>120 East Baltimore Street, Suite 1700 Baltimore, Maryland 21202 >>>410-962-1030 x1324 >>>410-385-0869 (fax) >>>ms at browngold.com >>>www.browngold.com >>> >>>Confidentiality Notice >>> >>>This e-mail may contain confidential information that may >also be legally >>>privileged and that is intended only for the use of the addressee(s) >>>named above. If you are not the intended recipient or an authorized >>>agent of the recipient, please be advised that any dissemination or >>>copying of this e-mail, or taking of any action in reliance on the >>>information contained herein, is strictly prohibited. If you have >>>received this e-mail in error, please notify me immediately >by use of the >>>reply button, and then delete the e-mail from your system. >Thank you! >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>blindlaw mailing list >>>blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>blindlaw: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep >.deeley%40insightbb.com >> >> >---------------------------------------------------------------- >---------------- >> >> >> >>No virus found in this incoming message. >>Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release >Date: 03/13/09 >>05:59:00 >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>blindlaw mailing list >>blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>blindlaw: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/slabar >re%40labarrelaw.com > > > >_______________________________________________ >blindlaw mailing list >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >blindlaw: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep >.deeley%40insightbb.com > > >---------------------------------------------------------------- >---------------- > > > >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release >Date: 03/13/09 >05:59:00 > > >_______________________________________________ >blindlaw mailing list >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >blindlaw: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugm >an%40sbcglobal.net > > >_______________________________________________ >blindlaw mailing list >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >blindlaw: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep >.deeley%40insightbb.com > > >---------------------------------------------------------------- >---------------- > > > >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release >Date: 03/13/09 >05:59:00 > > >_______________________________________________ >blindlaw mailing list >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >blindlaw: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jsoroz >co%40gmail.com > > >__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >signature database 3936 (20090313) __________ > >The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > >http://www.eset.com > > > >__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >signature database 3936 (20090313) __________ > >The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > >http://www.eset.com > > > >_______________________________________________ >blindlaw mailing list >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >blindlaw: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/slabarre%40la >barrelaw.com > > > >_______________________________________________ >blindlaw mailing list >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >blindlaw: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40vi >si.com > _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jsoroz co%40gmail.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3936 (20090313) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3937 (20090314) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Mon Mar 16 02:41:00 2009 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 19:41:00 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] comments needed regarding policyforaudiblepedestriansignals In-Reply-To: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6B26D668@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local> References: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6B26D668@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local> Message-ID: <52EF5BE098F045CB9C686CB25AFFBB5B@spike> When I read this this was one of my concerns as well. Most of our medians here are raised and in some cases they are wide enough to have a bit of landscaping on them. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "McCarthy, Jim" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 8:59 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] comments needed regarding policyforaudiblepedestriansignals > Chuck, > You bring up streets with medians, which reminds me of a point in the > document that I might question. The document says that it is better for > blind people to complete the entire crossing rather than to wait in a > median, doing the crossing in multiple parts, usually two. I think that > when the person realizes that there is a median, he or she is more > comfortable waiting there. What sometimes happens though is that the > median is not clearly indicated so a blind person is not sure where in the > street area would be safe to wait. I know that when I had a dog, he would > go toward the place with the least obstructions so it was hard to realize > that there might be a median. Medians that are not raised or otherwise > distinguishable to a blind person are highly appropriate places for > detectible warnings and in my experience, probably the most appropriate > places for them. That, of course, is another topic. > Jim McCarthy > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net > Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 1:17 AM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] comments needed regarding policy > foraudiblepedestriansignals > > thanks. Some of the audible signals that have been installed thus far > installed at appropriate intersections. Others have been installed ast > places where there is a low volume of traffic and where there is a low > demand. Apparently they are wanting to have a more a systematic approach > in place to determine where signals will be installed in the future. We > have many intersections where there are medians crossing several wide > streets where they have not been installed. On these I personally prefer > to at times to divide the crossing in to two sections to pay more > attention to traffic flow. There is another location where they should > probably build a pedestrian crossing either above or below ground. There > is a precedent for a couple of below ground crossings one in downtown > Fresno that was built in the 60's and one that was just opened a couple of > years ago to go under railroad tracks that cut through the campus of the > local community college. > There have been some above ground pedestrian crossings of major roads and > freeways to benefit children going to school. As a long-time cane user > trained long before audible signals were fashionable or feasible I still > believe that traffic flow is the best audible signal. > Chuck > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "McCarthy, Jim" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 6:58 AM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] comments needed regarding policy for > audiblepedestriansignals > > >> Chuck, >> I am happy to talk through this with you off line if you would prefer. >> Nevertheless, I will offer my immediate thoughts after reading. It is >> a little unclear what the goal is. This process is to prioritize >> intersections giving those most in need APS first. I am convinced >> that there are several signalized (light controlled) intersections >> that do not need these devices. However, this might be a way to >> provide APS at all signalized intersections in time and that may be >> what the Access-Board will come to require. >> >> I think it is good to have as a part of the evaluation team a blind >> person and a deaf blind person when the requester is deaf blind or >> serves that community. I have always found it problematic though when >> cities say that the centers blind people use should have some super >> priority. I lived in Portland Oregon and the west part of the city >> was hilly with curvy streets. Many were not straight and some had high >> speed traffic. >> However, the audible traffic signals were almost never in those >> neighborhoods (the better ones I might add) because it was assumed >> that blind people did not frequent them. To me that is a ghettoizing >> assumption that results from this process. I do think that public >> transit centers and such places should have greater attention paid >> though and this document would do that. >> >> Finally, in the main, I think that the traffic and street >> configuration factors are as they should be. I think that the >> locations with the greatest need based on these factors should be the >> first to receive signals. The Fresno process is similar to others I >> have seen, though I would prefer that the evaluation group use the >> factors and evaluate all >> signalized intersections using the factors more than whether and how >> many requests were made. >> Jim McCarthy >> -----Original Message----- >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >> On Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net >> Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2009 8:21 AM >> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >> Subject: [blindlaw] comments needed regarding policy for audible >> pedestriansignals >> >> The City of Fresno is proposing the policy shown below to evaluate the >> installation of audible traffic signals. As this is outside my >> expertise I would appreciate any comments regarding this document. >> Please feel free to contact me off list if needed. >> Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal >> 1237 P Street >> Fresno ca 93721 >> 559-266-9237 >> >> >> APS Policy-03-09-LP .pdf >> DRAFT ACCESSIBLE PEDESTRIAN SIGNALS (APS) INTERSECTION EVALUATION >> PROCEDURE BACKGROUND Accessible Pedestrian Signals (APS), also known >> as audible pedestrian signals, are devices that communicate >> information about pedestrian timing in nonvisual format such as >> audible tones, verbal messages, and/or vibrating surfaces. APS are >> used in conjunction with standard pedestrian activated traffic signals >> to provide the following information to pedestrians: >> list of 4 items >> б· >> Existence of and location of the pedestrian pushbutton б· Beginning of >> the pedestrian WALK interval б· Direction of the crosswalk and location >> of the destination curb б· Clearance signal interval list end They are >> used to assist blind and visually impaired persons and other persons >> with disabilities of all ages to cross at designated streets and >> intersections. >> PURPOSE >> The purpose of this evaluation policy is to set forth factors to be >> used by the City of Fresno's Public Works Department, in cooperation >> with the City of Fresno's Disability Advisory Commission, in >> developing a priority listing of signalized intersection candidates to >> be retrofitted with audible devices that will provide guidance for the >> blind community and visually impaired persons and other persons with >> disabilities of all ages to cross certain streets. >> POLICY >> It is the policy of the City Council that the retrofitting of existing >> traffic signals with APS shall be based on factors established herein >> and that such measurements and computations as may be required in >> determining priority rating of candidate locations shall be the >> responsibility of the Public Works Department. >> It should be noted that in special situations, an APS should not be >> installed because of the adverse affect it could have on pedestrian >> safety as a result of the overall traffic circulation pattern of an >> area, or unusual geometric conditions where an APS would not provide >> the safety benefits necessary for the blind or visually impaired >> individuals to cross a street. It should also be noted that some >> traffic signals cannot be retrofitted with APS without major costly >> modifications. Retrofitting of traffic signals with APS shall be >> subject to approval by the City Engineer. >> Important: APS are utilized to help blind and visually impaired >> travelers recognize when a WALK signal is operating in a given >> direction. An APS may enhance the safety of blind travelers in two ways: >> list of 1 items >> 1. >> Lessens the chance of a blind or visually impaired pedestrian >> misjudging when the walk phase is operating, thereby lessening the >> chance of accidentally crossing against a signal. >> list end >> list of 1 items >> 2. >> Helps blind and visually impaired pedestrians recognize immediately >> when the walk phase begins, permitting them to cross the street in a >> timely fashion, thereby lessening the chance of being in the >> intersection when the signal changes. >> list end >> However, it is important to recognize that the APS does not and cannot >> assure the blind and visually impaired pedestrians that there will be >> no potential traffic conflicts while crossing when the APS is >> operating. In particular, the blind and visually impaired pedestrians >> should be aware of at least four possible conflicts. >> list of 4 items >> 1. >> Vehicles may be still clearing the intersection when the APS comes on. >> 2. >> Vehicles may fail to stop for the red light. This is particularly >> common for motorists attempting to enter on a yellow light. >> 3. >> Motorists may stop and make a right turn on red while watching traffic >> on their left but may fail to notice pedestrians on their right. >> 4. >> Vehicles may have right and left turns on the same phase as the >> pedestrian. >> list end >> Because of these potential conflicts, it is important that the blind >> or visually impaired traveler exercise due caution for his or her >> well-being when crossing a street, whether or not it is equipped with >> APS. It is especially important that blind and visually impaired >> travelers be properly trained by certified orientation and mobility >> specialists in safe travel techniques on the public right-of-way. >> EVALUATION PROCEDURE (See attached "Evaluation Form.") The following >> basic considerations and evaluation factors shall be utilized to >> determine whether a location is eligible to be a candidate for APS and >> to determine its relative position on the priority list. Evaluation >> and scoring of factors will be conducted by an evaluation team >> consisting of a certified orientation-mobility specialist, a visually >> impaired/blind traveler and a traffic engineer. Candidate locations >> shall be requested by the City of Fresno Disability Advisory >> Commission, its working groups, and constituent requests to the ADA >> Coordinator's office. >> Candidate locations will be evaluated by means of the sample >> evaluation sheet attached. >> I. BASIC CONSIDERATIONS: >> APS normally will be considered for installation only if the following >> conditions are met: >> list of 5 items >> A. >> Intersections must be signalized. >> B. >> Signals must be susceptible to retrofitting. >> C. >> Signals should be equipped with pedestrian signal actuations. (See >> also section on "Signals without Pedestrian Actuations.") D. >> Location must be suitable to installation of audible signals, in terms >> of surrounding land use, noise level and neighborhood acceptance. >> E. >> There must be a demonstrated need for the audible signals in the form >> of a request from an individual or group that would use the audible >> signal. >> list end >> II EVALUATION FACTORS >> The following factors shall be used to establish a priority listing >> for potential audible traffic signal candidates. Candidates will be >> arranged in priority order of those with the highest total points (100 >> points >> maximum) on top and then in descending order. The scoring of factors >> will be conducted by an evaluation team consistent of a mobility >> specialist, a visually impaired/blind traveler and a traffic engineer. >> If the request for an APS was made by a deaf blind individual, or by >> representative of an organization serving deaf blind pedestrians in >> order to improve access in their geographic area, the evaluation team >> may also include a deaf blind rater. The decision whether to include a >> deaf blind rater will be made by the City Engineer. >> A) Intersection Safety >> 1. Accident Records: Past pedestrian accident experience at the >> intersection will be used as an indication of potential safety >> performance. Points will be based on pedestrian accidents reported by >> the City of Fresno's Police Department. >> >> table with 3 columns and 6 rows >> Pedestrian Accidents >> Period >> Points >> 1 >> 4 years >> 1 >> 2 >> 4 years >> 2 >> 3 >> 4 years >> 3 >> 4 >> 4 years >> 4 >> 5 or more >> 4 years >> 5 >> table end >> >> 2. Intersection Configuration: The number of approaches to an >> intersection and their geometric configuration (offset, skewed, etc.) >> affect the ability of the blind and visually impaired persons crossing >> the roadway. >> In particular, traffic at 3-leg intersections tends not to provide >> adequate audible clues for the blind to permit them to effectively >> judge the signal phase. >> >> table with 2 columns and 6 rows >> Configuration >> Points >> 4-leg right angle intersection >> 1 >> 3-leg T-intersection >> 2 >> 3 or 4-leg skewed intersection >> 3 >> 4-leg offset intersection >> 4 >> Other complex or multiple leg intersections >> 5 >> table end >> >> Note: Intersections with 5 or more legs will require special design. >> 3. Intersection Signalization: Pre-timed intersections are the easiest >> for blind pedestrian because the phase interval is constant and can be >> observed over time. Vehicle actuated intersections are more difficult, >> because the pedestrian interval may be of different lengths or skipped >> all together. Split-phasing can provide confusing auditory >> information, as a traveler may interpret left-turning vehicles as a >> parallel traffic surge. >> >> table with 2 columns and 5 rows >> Signalization >> Points >> Pre-timed >> 0 >> Vehicle Actuated >> 2 >> Split Phasing >> 4 >> Exclusive Ped Phase (for future reference) >> 5 >> table end >> >> 4. >> Width of Crossing: >> Wider streets are more difficult for blind travelers to cross. If each >> leg of the intersection has a different width, points will be assigned >> on the basis of the widest street on which pedestrians are permitted >> to cross. >> Crossing >> width will be measured at the point pedestrians normally cross the >> street. >> Islands >> and medians will be included in the total crossing distance even if >> they are equipped with separate pedestrian signal actuators. These >> points will be apportioned based upon the greatest width of the >> crossing at the subject intersection. >> >> table with 2 columns and 7 rows >> Width of Crossing >> Points >> 40 feet or less >> 0 >> 40 to 59 feet >> 1 >> 60 to 79 feet >> 2 >> 80 to 99 feet >> 3 >> 100 -119 >> 4 >> 120 feet or more >> 5 >> table end >> >> 5. Vehicle Speed: The speed of approaching traffic reflects the >> ability of approaching traffic to stop for a pedestrian clearing the >> intersection as the lights change. Audible signals help blind >> pedestrians get a timely start at the beginning of the walk phase, >> thereby permitting clearing the intersection in a timely manner. >> Points are assigned on the basis of the 85 percentile speed on the >> fastest approach leg. More points are assigned on the basis of higher >> speeds. >> >> table with 2 columns and 6 rows >> Speed Range >> Points >> 0 - 25 mph >> 1 >> 26 - 30 mph >> 2 >> 31 - 35 mph >> 3 >> 36 - 40 mph >> 4 >> 41 mph or over >> 5 >> table end >> >> B. Crosswalk Characteristics >> These points will be apportioned based upon the highest-scoring >> characteristics of any of the crosswalks at the intersection. For >> example, if any of the crosswalks at an intersection have a median >> island protruding into an intersection, then the intersection will >> receive the two points allotted for that characteristic. >> list of 1 items >> (a) >> Location of Pedestrian Push Button. Pedestrian push buttons that are >> too far from the intersection can present difficulties for blind >> pedestrians. They may make it harder for an individual to use the >> button as a cue for alignment and/or to push the button and cross in >> the same cycle. >> list end >> >> table with 2 columns and 4 rows >> Location of Pedestrian Actuations >> Points >> One or more ped pushbuttons located > 10 ft from curb >> 1 >> One or more ped pushbuttons located > 5 ft from crosswalk extended >> 2 >> One or more ped pushbuttons out of alignment with direction of travel >> 2 >> table end >> >> list of 1 items >> (b) >> Median Islands Blind pedestrians have difficulties interpreting >> traffic clues at medians and islands. Efforts should be made to permit >> the blind to cross in one continuous movement. In such cases, signal >> timing should be extended to accommodate the full crossing. Divided >> streets with or without a pedestrian signal actuator in the median >> will be handled as a single crossing, with the width measured across >> the entire street. >> list end >> >> table with 2 columns and 2 rows >> Median Island >> Points >> Protruding into crosswalk, or cut through. >> 2 >> table end >> >> list of 1 items >> (c) >> Alignment of Crosswalk. A skewed crosswalk is one in which the >> direction of travel on the crosswalk differs from that on the >> approaching sidewalk. In this context, skew is not defined as the >> angle at which streets intersect. If a blind pedestrian walking a >> straight line from the approaching sidewalk is headed toward parallel >> traffic lanes, the crosswalk is skewed. If the pedestrian would end up >> deviating from the crosswalk, but would still arrive at the opposite >> corner, the crosswalk is not defined as skewed for this purpose. >> list end >> Skewed Crosswalk >> 4 >> (d) Distance to Alternative APS >> >> table with 2 columns and 6 rows >> Distance to Alternative APS Crosswalk >> Points >> 1 block >> 0 >> 2 blocks >> 0 >> 3 blocks >> 2 >> 4 blocks >> 2 >> 5 or more blocks >> 3 >> table end >> >> (e) Requests for APS >> New requests for APS will be recorded by the ADA Coordinator. >> Requestors will be asked to specify the reason for the request (e.g. >> proximity on a route to school or work), the difficulty they encounter >> at the intersection, and the time of day that presents the greatest >> difficulty. This information may be used by the Orientation and >> Mobility Evaluation team in assessing the intersection. >> >> table with 2 columns and 4 rows >> APS Requests >> Points >> 1 request >> 1 >> 2 recent documented requests >> 2 >> 3 or more recent, documented requests >> 3-4 >> table end >> >> B) Pedestrian Usage >> Blind pedestrians share many characteristics with the sighted >> population in that they go to public places, business, social, >> educational and medical facilities. At the same time they have special >> needs. For example, they may have a greater reliance on public >> transportation than sighted persons. Audible signals should be placed >> with the view of improving mobility of blind persons and making more >> facilities accessible to them. Proximity of signals to these >> facilities may assure a greater degree of utilization. >> list of 1 items >> 1. >> Proximity to facilities for people who are blind or visually impaired: >> This includes the >> Department of Rehabilitation, Social Security offices, Valley Center >> for the Blind and other similar facilities. Special consideration may >> be given to senior citizens complexes or public housing facilities >> that have one or more blind or visually impaired persons in residence. >> Points are assigned on the basis of blocks or distance (1 block equals >> 400 >> feet) from proposed APS site to subject facility. The closer the two >> are, the more points are assigned. >> list end >> >> table with 2 columns and 6 rows >> Proximity >> Points >> 4 to 6 blocks >> 2 >> 3 blocks >> 4 >> 2 blocks >> 6 >> 1 block >> 8 >> At subject facility >> 10 >> table end >> >> 2. Proximity to key facilities utilized by all pedestrians (blind and >> sighted.): This includes >> medical, educational, social, recreational, shopping, commercial, >> business, public and governmental facilities. Points are assigned on >> the basis of blocks or distance (1 block equals 400 feet) from >> proposed APS site to subject facility. In case of multiple facilities, >> points will be assigned on the basis of the closest facility. >> >> table with 2 columns and 6 rows >> Proximity >> Points >> 4 to 6 blocks >> 1 >> 3 blocks >> 2 >> 2 blocks >> 3 >> 1 block >> 4 >> At subject facility >> 5 >> table end >> >> 3. Access to public transit: Because blind and visually impaired >> persons rely heavily upon public transportation (bus or trolley), >> special consideration will be given to those proposed APS sites that >> have heavy general use, serves any of the facilities indicated above >> (Ref. B-1 and B-2), or serves as a transfer point and serves 2 or more >> transit routes within a one-block walking distance. >> list of 1 items >> a) >> Number of transit stops and/or transit routes within one block of >> proposed audible signal site. >> list end >> >> table with 2 columns and 6 rows >> Number of Routes and Stops >> Points >> 1 - 2 routes and 1 stop >> 1 >> 3 or more routes and 1 stop >> 2 >> 1 - 2 routes and 2 stops >> 3 >> 3 or more routes and 2 stops >> 4 >> 2 or more routes and more than 2 stops >> 5 >> table end >> >> b) Passenger usage is based upon the total passengers boarding and >> debarking each day at a transit stop or transfer point within a >> one-block walking distance. >> >> table with 2 columns and 7 rows >> Passengers Boarding and Debarking Each Day Points 0 - 49 0 >> 50-149 >> 1 >> 150-249 >> 2 >> 250-499 >> 3 >> 500-999 >> 4 >> 1,000 and over >> 5 >> table end >> >> C) Traffic Conditions >> Vehicle volumes, traffic distribution, traffic congestion and flow >> characteristics may assist or impede the blind traveler in crossing an >> intersection. Blind pedestrians can function best when crossing >> signalized intersections that are at right angles with a moderate but >> steady flow of traffic through the intersection on each leg and with a >> minimum of turning movements (right or left turns). Traffic that stops >> on each leg during each signal cycle is particularly helpful. Traffic >> that is either light, or very heavy, or erratic in its flow makes it >> difficult for the blind traveler to pick up audible clues as to >> whether the light is red or green. In such cases, audible signals will >> assist in determining when it is possible to cross the street. Points >> may be assigned by the evaluation team based upon their perception of >> the relative importance of each of these factors (which are not >> necessarily dependent upon the total average daily traffic). Candidate >> locations may score up to a maximum of 5 points for each of the >> following factors depending upon overall traffic distribution. >> >> table with 3 columns and 6 rows >> Heavy Traffic Flow >> Vehicles per hour >> Points >> Approach traffic on all legs is in excess of 2,000 vehicles per hour >> during any peak hour. >> 2,000 - 2,999 >> 1 >> Approach traffic on all legs is in excess of 2,000 vehicles per hour >> during any peak hour. >> 3,000 - 3,999 >> 2 >> Approach traffic on all legs is in excess of 2,000 vehicles per hour >> during any peak hour. >> 4,000 - 4,999 >> 3 >> Approach traffic on all legs is in excess of 2,000 vehicles per hour >> during any peak hour. >> 5,000 - 5,999 >> 4 >> Approach traffic on all legs is in excess of 2,000 vehicles per hour >> during any peak hour. >> 6,000 and over >> 5 >> table end >> >> table with 3 columns and 7 rows >> Off Peak Traffic Presence Direction 1 >> Points >> At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, >> expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. >> Constant (б≥ 90%) >> 0 >> At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, >> expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. >> Heavy (70-80%) >> 1 >> At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, >> expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. >> Moderate (50-60%) >> 2 >> At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, >> expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. >> Light (30-40%) >> 3 >> At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, >> expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. >> Occasional (<30%) >> 4 >> At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, >> expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. >> None (no through lanes to create surge noise. >> 5 >> table end >> >> table with 3 columns and 7 rows >> Off Peak Traffic Presence >> Direction 2 >> Points >> At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, >> expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. >> Constant (б≥ 90%) >> 0 >> At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, >> expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. >> Heavy (70-80%) >> 1 >> At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, >> expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. >> Moderate (50-60%) >> 2 >> At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, >> expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. >> Light (30-40%) >> 3 >> At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, >> expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. >> Occasional (<30%) >> 4 >> At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, >> expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. >> None (no through lanes to create surge noise. >> 5 >> table end >> >> E.) Mobility Evaluation >> Each intersection being considered for audible signals should be >> evaluated by a certified orientation and mobility specialist. Based on >> the judgment of the O-M specialist and the evaluation team, additional >> points may be assigned based on observed or special conditions not >> adequately covered by any of the previous factors. This may include a >> heavy right-turn volume, right-turn island, right-turn signals, >> limited cone of "visibility", etc. >> Points >> Mobility and miscellaneous factors >> 0-15 >> Signals without Pedestrian Actuations >> Signalized intersections without pedestrian actuations may be >> considered for evaluation under this priority system, provided the >> following conditions are met: >> list of 3 items >> 1. >> There must be a demonstrated problem or need that can be alleviated by >> the installation of an audible signal in the form of a request from an >> individual or group that would use the audible signal. >> 2. >> The evaluation team must unanimously concur with the need. >> 3. >> Appropriate pedestrian actuation buttons and circuits must be provided >> as part of the APS installation. >> list end >> Accessible Signals at New Signal Installations Accessible signals will >> be considered for new signal installation if it is determined that >> installation is warranted by the criteria established above. >> Public Notice of Installation of Accessible Signals The City >> recognizes that the installation of an APS may be of interest to the >> community, especially residents in the immediate vicinity of the >> candidate intersection. In addition, research has indicated that APS >> are more effectively used by blind and visually impaired pedestrians >> if they have notice of its location and a basic understanding of the >> type of signal installed. >> Accordingly, the Director of Public Works will provide a notice to >> neighbors in a 350 feet radius from the intersection of the proposed >> installation of an APS at that site, and invite concerned citizens to >> contact him in writing. In addition, the Department of Public Works >> will issue press releases and informing the public and organizations >> serving people with disabilities, especially visual impairments, of >> type and location of proposed and installed APS. >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jmccarthy%40 >> nfb.org >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40s >> bcglobal.net >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jmccarthy%40nfb.org > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net > From timandvickie at hotmail.com Mon Mar 16 03:51:43 2009 From: timandvickie at hotmail.com (Tim Shaw) Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 03:51:43 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] comments needed regarding policyforaudiblepedestriansignals In-Reply-To: <52EF5BE098F045CB9C686CB25AFFBB5B@spike> References: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6B26D668@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local> <52EF5BE098F045CB9C686CB25AFFBB5B@spike> Message-ID: yes, the only street i cross regularly that has a median is raised and about 6 foot acrosss so i feel safe stopping there if i feel the red light is going t change soon > From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net > To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org > Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 19:41:00 -0700 > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] comments needed regarding policyforaudiblepedestriansignals > > When I read this this was one of my concerns as well. Most of our medians > here are raised and in some cases they are wide enough to have a bit of > landscaping on them. > Chuck > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "McCarthy, Jim" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 8:59 AM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] comments needed regarding > policyforaudiblepedestriansignals > > > > Chuck, > > You bring up streets with medians, which reminds me of a point in the > > document that I might question. The document says that it is better for > > blind people to complete the entire crossing rather than to wait in a > > median, doing the crossing in multiple parts, usually two. I think that > > when the person realizes that there is a median, he or she is more > > comfortable waiting there. What sometimes happens though is that the > > median is not clearly indicated so a blind person is not sure where in the > > street area would be safe to wait. I know that when I had a dog, he would > > go toward the place with the least obstructions so it was hard to realize > > that there might be a median. Medians that are not raised or otherwise > > distinguishable to a blind person are highly appropriate places for > > detectible warnings and in my experience, probably the most appropriate > > places for them. That, of course, is another topic. > > Jim McCarthy > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > > Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net > > Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 1:17 AM > > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] comments needed regarding policy > > foraudiblepedestriansignals > > > > thanks. Some of the audible signals that have been installed thus far > > installed at appropriate intersections. Others have been installed ast > > places where there is a low volume of traffic and where there is a low > > demand. Apparently they are wanting to have a more a systematic approach > > in place to determine where signals will be installed in the future. We > > have many intersections where there are medians crossing several wide > > streets where they have not been installed. On these I personally prefer > > to at times to divide the crossing in to two sections to pay more > > attention to traffic flow. There is another location where they should > > probably build a pedestrian crossing either above or below ground. There > > is a precedent for a couple of below ground crossings one in downtown > > Fresno that was built in the 60's and one that was just opened a couple of > > years ago to go under railroad tracks that cut through the campus of the > > local community college. > > There have been some above ground pedestrian crossings of major roads and > > freeways to benefit children going to school. As a long-time cane user > > trained long before audible signals were fashionable or feasible I still > > believe that traffic flow is the best audible signal. > > Chuck > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "McCarthy, Jim" > > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > > Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 6:58 AM > > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] comments needed regarding policy for > > audiblepedestriansignals > > > > > >> Chuck, > >> I am happy to talk through this with you off line if you would prefer. > >> Nevertheless, I will offer my immediate thoughts after reading. It is > >> a little unclear what the goal is. This process is to prioritize > >> intersections giving those most in need APS first. I am convinced > >> that there are several signalized (light controlled) intersections > >> that do not need these devices. However, this might be a way to > >> provide APS at all signalized intersections in time and that may be > >> what the Access-Board will come to require. > >> > >> I think it is good to have as a part of the evaluation team a blind > >> person and a deaf blind person when the requester is deaf blind or > >> serves that community. I have always found it problematic though when > >> cities say that the centers blind people use should have some super > >> priority. I lived in Portland Oregon and the west part of the city > >> was hilly with curvy streets. Many were not straight and some had high > >> speed traffic. > >> However, the audible traffic signals were almost never in those > >> neighborhoods (the better ones I might add) because it was assumed > >> that blind people did not frequent them. To me that is a ghettoizing > >> assumption that results from this process. I do think that public > >> transit centers and such places should have greater attention paid > >> though and this document would do that. > >> > >> Finally, in the main, I think that the traffic and street > >> configuration factors are as they should be. I think that the > >> locations with the greatest need based on these factors should be the > >> first to receive signals. The Fresno process is similar to others I > >> have seen, though I would prefer that the evaluation group use the > >> factors and evaluate all > >> signalized intersections using the factors more than whether and how > >> many requests were made. > >> Jim McCarthy > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] > >> On Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net > >> Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2009 8:21 AM > >> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > >> Subject: [blindlaw] comments needed regarding policy for audible > >> pedestriansignals > >> > >> The City of Fresno is proposing the policy shown below to evaluate the > >> installation of audible traffic signals. As this is outside my > >> expertise I would appreciate any comments regarding this document. > >> Please feel free to contact me off list if needed. > >> Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal > >> 1237 P Street > >> Fresno ca 93721 > >> 559-266-9237 > >> > >> > >> APS Policy-03-09-LP .pdf > >> DRAFT ACCESSIBLE PEDESTRIAN SIGNALS (APS) INTERSECTION EVALUATION > >> PROCEDURE BACKGROUND Accessible Pedestrian Signals (APS), also known > >> as audible pedestrian signals, are devices that communicate > >> information about pedestrian timing in nonvisual format such as > >> audible tones, verbal messages, and/or vibrating surfaces. APS are > >> used in conjunction with standard pedestrian activated traffic signals > >> to provide the following information to pedestrians: > >> list of 4 items > >> 징짚 > >> Existence of and location of the pedestrian pushbutton 징짚 Beginning of > >> the pedestrian WALK interval 징짚 Direction of the crosswalk and location > >> of the destination curb 징짚 Clearance signal interval list end They are > >> used to assist blind and visually impaired persons and other persons > >> with disabilities of all ages to cross at designated streets and > >> intersections. > >> PURPOSE > >> The purpose of this evaluation policy is to set forth factors to be > >> used by the City of Fresno's Public Works Department, in cooperation > >> with the City of Fresno's Disability Advisory Commission, in > >> developing a priority listing of signalized intersection candidates to > >> be retrofitted with audible devices that will provide guidance for the > >> blind community and visually impaired persons and other persons with > >> disabilities of all ages to cross certain streets. > >> POLICY > >> It is the policy of the City Council that the retrofitting of existing > >> traffic signals with APS shall be based on factors established herein > >> and that such measurements and computations as may be required in > >> determining priority rating of candidate locations shall be the > >> responsibility of the Public Works Department. > >> It should be noted that in special situations, an APS should not be > >> installed because of the adverse affect it could have on pedestrian > >> safety as a result of the overall traffic circulation pattern of an > >> area, or unusual geometric conditions where an APS would not provide > >> the safety benefits necessary for the blind or visually impaired > >> individuals to cross a street. It should also be noted that some > >> traffic signals cannot be retrofitted with APS without major costly > >> modifications. Retrofitting of traffic signals with APS shall be > >> subject to approval by the City Engineer. > >> Important: APS are utilized to help blind and visually impaired > >> travelers recognize when a WALK signal is operating in a given > >> direction. An APS may enhance the safety of blind travelers in two ways: > >> list of 1 items > >> 1. > >> Lessens the chance of a blind or visually impaired pedestrian > >> misjudging when the walk phase is operating, thereby lessening the > >> chance of accidentally crossing against a signal. > >> list end > >> list of 1 items > >> 2. > >> Helps blind and visually impaired pedestrians recognize immediately > >> when the walk phase begins, permitting them to cross the street in a > >> timely fashion, thereby lessening the chance of being in the > >> intersection when the signal changes. > >> list end > >> However, it is important to recognize that the APS does not and cannot > >> assure the blind and visually impaired pedestrians that there will be > >> no potential traffic conflicts while crossing when the APS is > >> operating. In particular, the blind and visually impaired pedestrians > >> should be aware of at least four possible conflicts. > >> list of 4 items > >> 1. > >> Vehicles may be still clearing the intersection when the APS comes on. > >> 2. > >> Vehicles may fail to stop for the red light. This is particularly > >> common for motorists attempting to enter on a yellow light. > >> 3. > >> Motorists may stop and make a right turn on red while watching traffic > >> on their left but may fail to notice pedestrians on their right. > >> 4. > >> Vehicles may have right and left turns on the same phase as the > >> pedestrian. > >> list end > >> Because of these potential conflicts, it is important that the blind > >> or visually impaired traveler exercise due caution for his or her > >> well-being when crossing a street, whether or not it is equipped with > >> APS. It is especially important that blind and visually impaired > >> travelers be properly trained by certified orientation and mobility > >> specialists in safe travel techniques on the public right-of-way. > >> EVALUATION PROCEDURE (See attached "Evaluation Form.") The following > >> basic considerations and evaluation factors shall be utilized to > >> determine whether a location is eligible to be a candidate for APS and > >> to determine its relative position on the priority list. Evaluation > >> and scoring of factors will be conducted by an evaluation team > >> consisting of a certified orientation-mobility specialist, a visually > >> impaired/blind traveler and a traffic engineer. Candidate locations > >> shall be requested by the City of Fresno Disability Advisory > >> Commission, its working groups, and constituent requests to the ADA > >> Coordinator's office. > >> Candidate locations will be evaluated by means of the sample > >> evaluation sheet attached. > >> I. BASIC CONSIDERATIONS: > >> APS normally will be considered for installation only if the following > >> conditions are met: > >> list of 5 items > >> A. > >> Intersections must be signalized. > >> B. > >> Signals must be susceptible to retrofitting. > >> C. > >> Signals should be equipped with pedestrian signal actuations. (See > >> also section on "Signals without Pedestrian Actuations.") D. > >> Location must be suitable to installation of audible signals, in terms > >> of surrounding land use, noise level and neighborhood acceptance. > >> E. > >> There must be a demonstrated need for the audible signals in the form > >> of a request from an individual or group that would use the audible > >> signal. > >> list end > >> II EVALUATION FACTORS > >> The following factors shall be used to establish a priority listing > >> for potential audible traffic signal candidates. Candidates will be > >> arranged in priority order of those with the highest total points (100 > >> points > >> maximum) on top and then in descending order. The scoring of factors > >> will be conducted by an evaluation team consistent of a mobility > >> specialist, a visually impaired/blind traveler and a traffic engineer. > >> If the request for an APS was made by a deaf blind individual, or by > >> representative of an organization serving deaf blind pedestrians in > >> order to improve access in their geographic area, the evaluation team > >> may also include a deaf blind rater. The decision whether to include a > >> deaf blind rater will be made by the City Engineer. > >> A) Intersection Safety > >> 1. Accident Records: Past pedestrian accident experience at the > >> intersection will be used as an indication of potential safety > >> performance. Points will be based on pedestrian accidents reported by > >> the City of Fresno's Police Department. > >> > >> table with 3 columns and 6 rows > >> Pedestrian Accidents > >> Period > >> Points > >> 1 > >> 4 years > >> 1 > >> 2 > >> 4 years > >> 2 > >> 3 > >> 4 years > >> 3 > >> 4 > >> 4 years > >> 4 > >> 5 or more > >> 4 years > >> 5 > >> table end > >> > >> 2. Intersection Configuration: The number of approaches to an > >> intersection and their geometric configuration (offset, skewed, etc.) > >> affect the ability of the blind and visually impaired persons crossing > >> the roadway. > >> In particular, traffic at 3-leg intersections tends not to provide > >> adequate audible clues for the blind to permit them to effectively > >> judge the signal phase. > >> > >> table with 2 columns and 6 rows > >> Configuration > >> Points > >> 4-leg right angle intersection > >> 1 > >> 3-leg T-intersection > >> 2 > >> 3 or 4-leg skewed intersection > >> 3 > >> 4-leg offset intersection > >> 4 > >> Other complex or multiple leg intersections > >> 5 > >> table end > >> > >> Note: Intersections with 5 or more legs will require special design. > >> 3. Intersection Signalization: Pre-timed intersections are the easiest > >> for blind pedestrian because the phase interval is constant and can be > >> observed over time. Vehicle actuated intersections are more difficult, > >> because the pedestrian interval may be of different lengths or skipped > >> all together. Split-phasing can provide confusing auditory > >> information, as a traveler may interpret left-turning vehicles as a > >> parallel traffic surge. > >> > >> table with 2 columns and 5 rows > >> Signalization > >> Points > >> Pre-timed > >> 0 > >> Vehicle Actuated > >> 2 > >> Split Phasing > >> 4 > >> Exclusive Ped Phase (for future reference) > >> 5 > >> table end > >> > >> 4. > >> Width of Crossing: > >> Wider streets are more difficult for blind travelers to cross. If each > >> leg of the intersection has a different width, points will be assigned > >> on the basis of the widest street on which pedestrians are permitted > >> to cross. > >> Crossing > >> width will be measured at the point pedestrians normally cross the > >> street. > >> Islands > >> and medians will be included in the total crossing distance even if > >> they are equipped with separate pedestrian signal actuators. These > >> points will be apportioned based upon the greatest width of the > >> crossing at the subject intersection. > >> > >> table with 2 columns and 7 rows > >> Width of Crossing > >> Points > >> 40 feet or less > >> 0 > >> 40 to 59 feet > >> 1 > >> 60 to 79 feet > >> 2 > >> 80 to 99 feet > >> 3 > >> 100 -119 > >> 4 > >> 120 feet or more > >> 5 > >> table end > >> > >> 5. Vehicle Speed: The speed of approaching traffic reflects the > >> ability of approaching traffic to stop for a pedestrian clearing the > >> intersection as the lights change. Audible signals help blind > >> pedestrians get a timely start at the beginning of the walk phase, > >> thereby permitting clearing the intersection in a timely manner. > >> Points are assigned on the basis of the 85 percentile speed on the > >> fastest approach leg. More points are assigned on the basis of higher > >> speeds. > >> > >> table with 2 columns and 6 rows > >> Speed Range > >> Points > >> 0 - 25 mph > >> 1 > >> 26 - 30 mph > >> 2 > >> 31 - 35 mph > >> 3 > >> 36 - 40 mph > >> 4 > >> 41 mph or over > >> 5 > >> table end > >> > >> B. Crosswalk Characteristics > >> These points will be apportioned based upon the highest-scoring > >> characteristics of any of the crosswalks at the intersection. For > >> example, if any of the crosswalks at an intersection have a median > >> island protruding into an intersection, then the intersection will > >> receive the two points allotted for that characteristic. > >> list of 1 items > >> (a) > >> Location of Pedestrian Push Button. Pedestrian push buttons that are > >> too far from the intersection can present difficulties for blind > >> pedestrians. They may make it harder for an individual to use the > >> button as a cue for alignment and/or to push the button and cross in > >> the same cycle. > >> list end > >> > >> table with 2 columns and 4 rows > >> Location of Pedestrian Actuations > >> Points > >> One or more ped pushbuttons located > 10 ft from curb > >> 1 > >> One or more ped pushbuttons located > 5 ft from crosswalk extended > >> 2 > >> One or more ped pushbuttons out of alignment with direction of travel > >> 2 > >> table end > >> > >> list of 1 items > >> (b) > >> Median Islands Blind pedestrians have difficulties interpreting > >> traffic clues at medians and islands. Efforts should be made to permit > >> the blind to cross in one continuous movement. In such cases, signal > >> timing should be extended to accommodate the full crossing. Divided > >> streets with or without a pedestrian signal actuator in the median > >> will be handled as a single crossing, with the width measured across > >> the entire street. > >> list end > >> > >> table with 2 columns and 2 rows > >> Median Island > >> Points > >> Protruding into crosswalk, or cut through. > >> 2 > >> table end > >> > >> list of 1 items > >> (c) > >> Alignment of Crosswalk. A skewed crosswalk is one in which the > >> direction of travel on the crosswalk differs from that on the > >> approaching sidewalk. In this context, skew is not defined as the > >> angle at which streets intersect. If a blind pedestrian walking a > >> straight line from the approaching sidewalk is headed toward parallel > >> traffic lanes, the crosswalk is skewed. If the pedestrian would end up > >> deviating from the crosswalk, but would still arrive at the opposite > >> corner, the crosswalk is not defined as skewed for this purpose. > >> list end > >> Skewed Crosswalk > >> 4 > >> (d) Distance to Alternative APS > >> > >> table with 2 columns and 6 rows > >> Distance to Alternative APS Crosswalk > >> Points > >> 1 block > >> 0 > >> 2 blocks > >> 0 > >> 3 blocks > >> 2 > >> 4 blocks > >> 2 > >> 5 or more blocks > >> 3 > >> table end > >> > >> (e) Requests for APS > >> New requests for APS will be recorded by the ADA Coordinator. > >> Requestors will be asked to specify the reason for the request (e.g. > >> proximity on a route to school or work), the difficulty they encounter > >> at the intersection, and the time of day that presents the greatest > >> difficulty. This information may be used by the Orientation and > >> Mobility Evaluation team in assessing the intersection. > >> > >> table with 2 columns and 4 rows > >> APS Requests > >> Points > >> 1 request > >> 1 > >> 2 recent documented requests > >> 2 > >> 3 or more recent, documented requests > >> 3-4 > >> table end > >> > >> B) Pedestrian Usage > >> Blind pedestrians share many characteristics with the sighted > >> population in that they go to public places, business, social, > >> educational and medical facilities. At the same time they have special > >> needs. For example, they may have a greater reliance on public > >> transportation than sighted persons. Audible signals should be placed > >> with the view of improving mobility of blind persons and making more > >> facilities accessible to them. Proximity of signals to these > >> facilities may assure a greater degree of utilization. > >> list of 1 items > >> 1. > >> Proximity to facilities for people who are blind or visually impaired: > >> This includes the > >> Department of Rehabilitation, Social Security offices, Valley Center > >> for the Blind and other similar facilities. Special consideration may > >> be given to senior citizens complexes or public housing facilities > >> that have one or more blind or visually impaired persons in residence. > >> Points are assigned on the basis of blocks or distance (1 block equals > >> 400 > >> feet) from proposed APS site to subject facility. The closer the two > >> are, the more points are assigned. > >> list end > >> > >> table with 2 columns and 6 rows > >> Proximity > >> Points > >> 4 to 6 blocks > >> 2 > >> 3 blocks > >> 4 > >> 2 blocks > >> 6 > >> 1 block > >> 8 > >> At subject facility > >> 10 > >> table end > >> > >> 2. Proximity to key facilities utilized by all pedestrians (blind and > >> sighted.): This includes > >> medical, educational, social, recreational, shopping, commercial, > >> business, public and governmental facilities. Points are assigned on > >> the basis of blocks or distance (1 block equals 400 feet) from > >> proposed APS site to subject facility. In case of multiple facilities, > >> points will be assigned on the basis of the closest facility. > >> > >> table with 2 columns and 6 rows > >> Proximity > >> Points > >> 4 to 6 blocks > >> 1 > >> 3 blocks > >> 2 > >> 2 blocks > >> 3 > >> 1 block > >> 4 > >> At subject facility > >> 5 > >> table end > >> > >> 3. Access to public transit: Because blind and visually impaired > >> persons rely heavily upon public transportation (bus or trolley), > >> special consideration will be given to those proposed APS sites that > >> have heavy general use, serves any of the facilities indicated above > >> (Ref. B-1 and B-2), or serves as a transfer point and serves 2 or more > >> transit routes within a one-block walking distance. > >> list of 1 items > >> a) > >> Number of transit stops and/or transit routes within one block of > >> proposed audible signal site. > >> list end > >> > >> table with 2 columns and 6 rows > >> Number of Routes and Stops > >> Points > >> 1 - 2 routes and 1 stop > >> 1 > >> 3 or more routes and 1 stop > >> 2 > >> 1 - 2 routes and 2 stops > >> 3 > >> 3 or more routes and 2 stops > >> 4 > >> 2 or more routes and more than 2 stops > >> 5 > >> table end > >> > >> b) Passenger usage is based upon the total passengers boarding and > >> debarking each day at a transit stop or transfer point within a > >> one-block walking distance. > >> > >> table with 2 columns and 7 rows > >> Passengers Boarding and Debarking Each Day Points 0 - 49 0 > >> 50-149 > >> 1 > >> 150-249 > >> 2 > >> 250-499 > >> 3 > >> 500-999 > >> 4 > >> 1,000 and over > >> 5 > >> table end > >> > >> C) Traffic Conditions > >> Vehicle volumes, traffic distribution, traffic congestion and flow > >> characteristics may assist or impede the blind traveler in crossing an > >> intersection. Blind pedestrians can function best when crossing > >> signalized intersections that are at right angles with a moderate but > >> steady flow of traffic through the intersection on each leg and with a > >> minimum of turning movements (right or left turns). Traffic that stops > >> on each leg during each signal cycle is particularly helpful. Traffic > >> that is either light, or very heavy, or erratic in its flow makes it > >> difficult for the blind traveler to pick up audible clues as to > >> whether the light is red or green. In such cases, audible signals will > >> assist in determining when it is possible to cross the street. Points > >> may be assigned by the evaluation team based upon their perception of > >> the relative importance of each of these factors (which are not > >> necessarily dependent upon the total average daily traffic). Candidate > >> locations may score up to a maximum of 5 points for each of the > >> following factors depending upon overall traffic distribution. > >> > >> table with 3 columns and 6 rows > >> Heavy Traffic Flow > >> Vehicles per hour > >> Points > >> Approach traffic on all legs is in excess of 2,000 vehicles per hour > >> during any peak hour. > >> 2,000 - 2,999 > >> 1 > >> Approach traffic on all legs is in excess of 2,000 vehicles per hour > >> during any peak hour. > >> 3,000 - 3,999 > >> 2 > >> Approach traffic on all legs is in excess of 2,000 vehicles per hour > >> during any peak hour. > >> 4,000 - 4,999 > >> 3 > >> Approach traffic on all legs is in excess of 2,000 vehicles per hour > >> during any peak hour. > >> 5,000 - 5,999 > >> 4 > >> Approach traffic on all legs is in excess of 2,000 vehicles per hour > >> during any peak hour. > >> 6,000 and over > >> 5 > >> table end > >> > >> table with 3 columns and 7 rows > >> Off Peak Traffic Presence Direction 1 > >> Points > >> At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, > >> expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. > >> Constant (징�� 90%) > >> 0 > >> At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, > >> expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. > >> Heavy (70-80%) > >> 1 > >> At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, > >> expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. > >> Moderate (50-60%) > >> 2 > >> At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, > >> expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. > >> Light (30-40%) > >> 3 > >> At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, > >> expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. > >> Occasional (<30%) > >> 4 > >> At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, > >> expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. > >> None (no through lanes to create surge noise. > >> 5 > >> table end > >> > >> table with 3 columns and 7 rows > >> Off Peak Traffic Presence > >> Direction 2 > >> Points > >> At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, > >> expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. > >> Constant (징�� 90%) > >> 0 > >> At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, > >> expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. > >> Heavy (70-80%) > >> 1 > >> At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, > >> expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. > >> Moderate (50-60%) > >> 2 > >> At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, > >> expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. > >> Light (30-40%) > >> 3 > >> At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, > >> expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. > >> Occasional (<30%) > >> 4 > >> At least two vehicles present on both directions on parallel street, > >> expressed as a percentage of ten cycles. > >> None (no through lanes to create surge noise. > >> 5 > >> table end > >> > >> E.) Mobility Evaluation > >> Each intersection being considered for audible signals should be > >> evaluated by a certified orientation and mobility specialist. Based on > >> the judgment of the O-M specialist and the evaluation team, additional > >> points may be assigned based on observed or special conditions not > >> adequately covered by any of the previous factors. This may include a > >> heavy right-turn volume, right-turn island, right-turn signals, > >> limited cone of "visibility", etc. > >> Points > >> Mobility and miscellaneous factors > >> 0-15 > >> Signals without Pedestrian Actuations > >> Signalized intersections without pedestrian actuations may be > >> considered for evaluation under this priority system, provided the > >> following conditions are met: > >> list of 3 items > >> 1. > >> There must be a demonstrated problem or need that can be alleviated by > >> the installation of an audible signal in the form of a request from an > >> individual or group that would use the audible signal. > >> 2. > >> The evaluation team must unanimously concur with the need. > >> 3. > >> Appropriate pedestrian actuation buttons and circuits must be provided > >> as part of the APS installation. > >> list end > >> Accessible Signals at New Signal Installations Accessible signals will > >> be considered for new signal installation if it is determined that > >> installation is warranted by the criteria established above. > >> Public Notice of Installation of Accessible Signals The City > >> recognizes that the installation of an APS may be of interest to the > >> community, especially residents in the immediate vicinity of the > >> candidate intersection. In addition, research has indicated that APS > >> are more effectively used by blind and visually impaired pedestrians > >> if they have notice of its location and a basic understanding of the > >> type of signal installed. > >> Accordingly, the Director of Public Works will provide a notice to > >> neighbors in a 350 feet radius from the intersection of the proposed > >> installation of an APS at that site, and invite concerned citizens to > >> contact him in writing. In addition, the Department of Public Works > >> will issue press releases and informing the public and organizations > >> serving people with disabilities, especially visual impairments, of > >> type and location of proposed and installed APS. > >> _______________________________________________ > >> blindlaw mailing list > >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> blindlaw: > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jmccarthy%40 > >> nfb.org > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> blindlaw mailing list > >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> blindlaw: > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40s > >> bcglobal.net > >> > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > blindlaw mailing list > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jmccarthy%40nfb.org > > > > _______________________________________________ > > blindlaw mailing list > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net > > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/timandvickie%40hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live짖창 Contacts: Organize your contact list. http://windowslive.com/connect/post/marcusatmicrosoft.spaces.live.com-Blog-cns!503D1D86EBB2B53C!2285.entry?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_UGC_Contacts_032009 From timandvickie at hotmail.com Mon Mar 16 03:55:31 2009 From: timandvickie at hotmail.com (Tim Shaw) Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 03:55:31 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: as far as web accessibility i hacvent mentioned it before, but io use the high contrast setting in microsofts disability setting on windows, the high contrast settings seeem to cause ALOT of websites to have dificulties, somewebsites, hotmail qwhich is microsots as well until recently, have alot of fiiculties. For instance hotmail use to open the log in screen and the font would end up so large that not even half of a single letter would end up on a screen, they have fiixed that but alot of sites havent.Other sites while im usign the high contrast settinsd alot of the images and buttopns wont load, for instance i rcently use freecreditreports.copm to get my three credit reports and the icons showing which redit report was each wouldnt show up. Who should i take this up wqioth? doe s anyoen have contact info fo rthe people at microsoft iwshould contact about this? > From: jsorozco at gmail.com > To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org > Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 21:11:48 -0400 > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > Angie, > > Forgive the lack of clarification on my part. When I referred to nipping > the problem in the bud and focusing on classrooms, I meant concentrating on > students learning how to develop sites in the first place. Litigation is > costly and can take years. By the time a settlement is achieved further > down the road the landscape of web accessibility has changed to encompass > issues that may not have been an issue in the original case. Packages like > DreamWeaver are already offering features to increase accessibility. I > simply believe it would behoove us to refocus our efforts at targeting the > source of the evolving Internet rather than isolating a few companies at a > time. I am not defending the lack of cooperation of some entities. I am > saying our priorities should be laid out in such a way that maximizes the > money the membership raises to make such litigation possible. On the same > point about priorities, I believe a greater priority would have been our > access to the disability department at the LSAC that goes beyond an e-mail > address. > > Bill, > > No matter how minimal the task may be for the party on the other end, we are > always going to be competing with the expansion of technology. You say it > is not fair that blind people should have to develop special ways of gaining > accessibility. I agree, but we already do this in everyday life. If we are > gauging success on the elimination of special techniques we will forever be > chasing the next barrier and the barrier after that. There is no such thing > as simple service, because the Internet itself is not a simple domain. Up > to a point it really is up to individuals to learn how to remain caught up > with the latest methods of accessing the same information as sighted peers. > Perhaps we could do more to stimulate a dialogue between adaptive technology > companies and major software manufacturers. > > Scott, > > Is it true that the WCAG was last revised in 1999? Am I mistaken in my > perception that Section 508 is singularly dealing with government agencies? > These are genuine points of information I would like addressed so that I am > explaining the situation accurately to other individuals. It would also > help me better understand the role of these standards across the cases the > organization has taken up. At first glance it would appear the documents > are not fully accounting for the ever growing spectrum of Internet > accessibility such as those elements introduced in the Web 2.0 era alone, > but even if these documents are somehow written in such a way as to dictate > every possible technological scenario imaginable, how do we begin to > determine where the line of company responsibility ends and personal > obligation begins. A blind person may very well have difficulty navigating > even a web site that meets every standard imaginable. Can that person claim > a wrong was committed because they themselves are incapable of navigating > the site? > > On that point, I believe a survey was supposedly distributed among > prospective law students asking for feedback on their experience with the > LSAC. I submitted a request for a copy of that survey and never received a > response. My feelings aren't hurt that my input was not collected, but I > would be curious to learn the results of said survey. What trends were > discovered, and how did these patterns correspond to our general standard of > pursuing formal action against a company? The organization may not be > stumbling across web sites, finding them inaccessible and litigating the > next day, but it's a hard case to prove when it seems we are in a continuous > state of isolating one company after another. What have we achieved with > each case? How, for example, has our work on the Target matter translated > over to other major retailers and the Internet as a whole? How much has it > cost to carry the Target case from beginning to present? > > No, our small numbers does not give the majority the right to trample our > rights. No one has argued to the contrary, but because we are smaller in > numbers we should exercise prudence in how we exhaust time and money on the > issue because web accessibility is not the only item on our radar. I would > respectfully ask you in return that you allow time for these questions to be > answered rather than encourage the subject off the list and increase the > risk of ignorance among the membership. > > James, > > What I do not get is why the strength of the Jernigan Institute has not been > exercised to provide training to companies and developers on what > constitutes proper accessibility. > > Dave, > > I've made purchases on Target since 2005. I have never required sighted > assistance, nor have I ever needed to call their telephone line to require > assistance. I have never encountered an invisible button. Does this mean > this invisible button does not exist? Certainly not, but I also did not > think that one's web site viewing changed according to one's geography. > Again, this is an educational point for me, because maybe different screen > readers and different physical locations count for something. > > Actually, that raises an interesting point because not all screen readers > are built equally. Are we relying on a fixed level of screen reader > capacity, or is my persistent request for common standards simply just too > much. > > In closing, I am not sympathetic to companies that do not cooperate with us > when problems are found. I am saying that long-term strategies are > necessary to deliver bigger impacts with our treasury. I enjoy a good fight > as much as the next hawk, but in the oscillating arena of technology I > believe there is a point where we have to assume the role of the educator > and do more to bring about solutions at the foundation level rather than at > the top where both sides are expending valuable resources on a case that > could have been resolved a lot sooner. > > Joe Orozco > > "A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the > crowd."--Max Lucado > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of David Andrews > Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 2:11 AM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > Scott, Joe etc., > > The question of the Target site has come up, and Joe says he > was able to use it. This very well could be true, as sometimes > everything went fine. However, there were instances when the > site put up on the screen a "purchase button" > that was totally invisible to screen > readers. Unless you clicked it, you could not finalize your > purchase. It was not used for all purchases, but was for some. > I know as it happened to me. Unfortunately I do not live in > California. > > Anyway, if Joe didn't go all the way to making a purchase, or > happened not to encounter the invisible button, then he would > think the site was accessible. > > Dave > > At 10:19 PM 3/14/2009, you wrote: > >The standards used are those of WCAG and Sec. > >508. I did not work directly on Target and cannot tell you > exactly the > >access barriers. I can tell you that with respect to filing > >applications to law schools through LSAC on their website, it is > >impossible to fill those applications out independently using screen > >reading softaware. Let me also assure list members that we don't > >simply jump on a website, encounter difficulty, and then sue them the > >next day. A lawsuit is the last resort when the entity is not willing > >to deal with us otherwise. Just because we are a small minority does > >not mean that our right to the mainstream of society must always be > >subservient to the majority's unwillingness to consider us due to our > >small numbers. Unless someone has a new point to be made on this > >topic, I respectfully suggest that we move onto different > discussions. > >Let's also agree to disagree on certain points. > >Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. > > > >LaBarre Law Offices P.C. > >1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 > >Denver, Colorado 80222 > >303 504-5979 (voice) > >303 757-3640 (fax) > >slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) > >www.labarrelaw.com (website) > > > >CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and > >privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you > >may not read, copy, distribute or retain this message. > >If you received this message in error, please notify the > sender at 303) > >504-5979 or slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from > >your system. This message and any attachments are covered by the > >Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. > >----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Orozco" > >To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" > >Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 8:52 AM > >Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > > > > >What troubles me is that my question of accessibility > standards has not > >been answered on the other case against the LSAC. The same > question is > >applicable here. What standard was used to conclude that the web site > >was not accessible? I do not claim to be a genius at manipulating > >technology to serve my needs, but I did not have to try hard at all to > >make Target give me what I needed between 2005 and 2008. So is the > >problem the web site layout, or is it our own technology training? > >Rather than chase every entity with features a few people deem > >inaccessible, would it not be prudent to take our standards, whatever > >those may be, to the classroom, to the software developers, the > >relevant associations raising the performance standards of its > students > >and members? This method of engineering change gives us the > perception > >of a watchdog group. If this is what we have become, and given the > >small margin of the population we represent, I would rather > trigger change at the source rather than at the output. > > > >Joe Orozco > > > >"A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the > >crowd."--Max Lucado > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org > >[mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley > >Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 9:24 AM > >To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > >Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > > >That should not result in you receiving damages of almost $4,000.00. > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: > >To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > >Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 4:35 AM > >Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > > > > >As an individual I am insulted and damaged each time I am > discriminated > >by a business not accommodating my ability to access their > products and > >services, especially on the Internet when I have made sure that I have > >accommodated myself with the most up-to-date software to mitigate my > >needs as a blind person. I should not have to rely on sighted > >assistance to use a product or do without because the greedy > >corporations has chosen the most expedient road to sell their > products. > >I am also insulted that you are posting this question. I have in my > >life time been sold out by too many blind people that thought > they knew > >what I needed and I hope more companies will have to pay damages in > >these types of cases. Perhaps they will then learn how to meet the > >needs of all their customers. Fortunately here in California we have > >some laws with some teeth in them that are enforceable--although these > >teeth still need a good sharpening. > >Chuck > >----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. > >Deeley" > >To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > >Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 6:22 PM > >Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > > > > >That is a lawyer talking who makes his living in rediculous situations > >like this one. Again, you show me how an individual was damaged and > >out $4,000.00. > >Steve > >----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott C. > >LaBarre" > >To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > >Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 5:38 PM > >Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > > > > >Violation of civil rights has long been recognized as a form of > >compensible legal damage as well it should be. > >Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. > > > >LaBarre Law Offices P.C. > >1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 > >Denver, Colorado 80222 > >303 504-5979 (voice) > >303 757-3640 (fax) > >slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) > >www.labarrelaw.com (website) > > > >CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and > >privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you > >may not read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received > >this message in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or > >slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. > >This message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic > >Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. > >----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. > >Deeley" > >To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > >Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 2:31 PM > >Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > > > > >>This is ridiculous! How were these people damaged? > >>----- Original Message ----- From: "Mehgan Sidhu" > >>To: > >>Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 3:20 PM > >>Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > >> > >> > >>>To answer the recent questions posted about the Target case, > >the final > >>>settlement hearing took place on March 9th. I understand from our > >>>counsel in California, Larry Paradis of DRA and Josh > >Konecky, that there > >>>were no objectors and the Judge was pleased with the > >resolution of the > >>>case. The settlement is not fully "final" until the time for any > >>>appeals has run - which is about 30 days. Given there were > >no objectors, > >>>it is highly unlikely that any appeals will be filed. The > >judge has not > >>>yet made a ruling on attorneys fees, but that will not hold up > >>>enforcement of the settlement. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>As for disbursements, assuming there are no appeals, the claims > >>>administer has 45 days from the final approval date to > >disburse funds to > >>>claimants. I do not know the final tally of approved > >claimants, though I > >>>think there were several hundred. I will pass that > information along > >>>when I have it. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>We will now be working on enforcing the settlement commitments that > >>>Target made with respect to the accessibility of the website. > >>> > >>> > >>>Mehgan Sidhu > >>>Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP > >>>120 East Baltimore Street, Suite 1700 Baltimore, Maryland 21202 > >>>410-962-1030 x1324 > >>>410-385-0869 (fax) > >>>ms at browngold.com > >>>www.browngold.com > >>> > >>>Confidentiality Notice > >>> > >>>This e-mail may contain confidential information that may > >also be legally > >>>privileged and that is intended only for the use of the addressee(s) > >>>named above. If you are not the intended recipient or an authorized > >>>agent of the recipient, please be advised that any dissemination or > >>>copying of this e-mail, or taking of any action in reliance on the > >>>information contained herein, is strictly prohibited. If you have > >>>received this e-mail in error, please notify me immediately > >by use of the > >>>reply button, and then delete the e-mail from your system. > >Thank you! > >>> > >>>_______________________________________________ > >>>blindlaw mailing list > >>>blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>>blindlaw: > >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep > >.deeley%40insightbb.com > >> > >> > >---------------------------------------------------------------- > >---------------- > >> > >> > >> > >>No virus found in this incoming message. > >>Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > >>Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release > >Date: 03/13/09 > >>05:59:00 > >> > >> > >>_______________________________________________ > >>blindlaw mailing list > >>blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>blindlaw: > >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/slabar > >re%40labarrelaw.com > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >blindlaw mailing list > >blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >blindlaw: > >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep > >.deeley%40insightbb.com > > > > > >---------------------------------------------------------------- > >---------------- > > > > > > > >No virus found in this incoming message. > >Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > >Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release > >Date: 03/13/09 > >05:59:00 > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >blindlaw mailing list > >blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >blindlaw: > >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugm > >an%40sbcglobal.net > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >blindlaw mailing list > >blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >blindlaw: > >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep > >.deeley%40insightbb.com > > > > > >---------------------------------------------------------------- > >---------------- > > > > > > > >No virus found in this incoming message. > >Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > >Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release > >Date: 03/13/09 > >05:59:00 > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >blindlaw mailing list > >blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >blindlaw: > >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jsoroz > >co%40gmail.com > > > > > >__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > >signature database 3936 (20090313) __________ > > > >The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > > >http://www.eset.com > > > > > > > >__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > >signature database 3936 (20090313) __________ > > > >The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > > >http://www.eset.com > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >blindlaw mailing list > >blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >blindlaw: > >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/slabarre%40la > >barrelaw.com > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >blindlaw mailing list > >blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >blindlaw: > >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40vi > >si.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jsoroz > co%40gmail.com > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of > virus signature database 3936 (20090313) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature > database 3937 (20090314) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/timandvickie%40hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail® is up to 70% faster. Now good news travels really fast. http://windowslive.com/online/hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_70faster_032009 From timandvickie at hotmail.com Mon Mar 16 03:57:11 2009 From: timandvickie at hotmail.com (Tim Shaw) Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 03:57:11 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] Multiple LSAT Scores In-Reply-To: References: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6B26D66D@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local> Message-ID: i as well gdid not find the logic pro blems to b e to bad sin ce I was in GT classes since age 3, gifted and talented that is, where qwe diod such problems since kindergarden on and off. I did not however request as much time as i shouldf have for thtest so i was rushed in ever section > From: angie at mpmail.net > To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org > Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 20:50:53 -0400 > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Multiple LSAT Scores > > I guess I'm solidly in the minority: I liked the logic games. In fact, I think I got a perfect score on that section. This might have been due in part to all those years I wasted--er, spent in math grad school. (grin) > > Angie > > > > On Sun, 15 Mar 2009 15:43:17 -0400, McCarthy, Jim wrote: > > >I take Craig's point, but I do think that the logic games or whatever > >they are called may actually measure one's ability to apply conditions. > >And though I hated those questions and found them difficult as a blind > >person not to mention just weird, I think that properly using conditions > >may be a valuable thing to do in law school and beyond as a lawyer. > > >Now to the real point though, I imagine that regardless what the studies > >say about the predictive power of the LSAT, the one thing it possibly > >can do is rank candidates. There is so much variability among the > >higher education institutions of this country that grades are probably > >somewhat meaningless because we really don't know what kind of effort a > >student must put forward to get a particular grade at any particular > >institution. The possible answer to this is to make us all take the > >same dull test and compare us that way. > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] > >On Behalf Of Craig Borne > >Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 1:51 PM > >To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' > >Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Multiple LSAT Scores > > >John, > > >I agree. Never in my 3 1/2 years of law school was I asked to calculate > >how many green M and Ms would fit in a school locker. > > >Craig > > >Craig Borne > >Baltimore, Maryland > >"A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial > >appearance of being right, and raises at first a formidable outcry in > >defense of custom." --Thomas Paine, Common Sense > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] > >On Behalf Of John > >Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 6:10 PM > >To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' > >Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Multiple LSAT Scores > > >It has been several years since I had the displeasure of taking the > >LSAT, but something I have always pondered about is this fictional > >belief that the LSAT score is an accurate predictor of how a student > >will do in his first year of law school. I personally believe that it is > >not a predictor of anything, much less, how a person will perform in law > >school. > >I am sure that there a thousand studies supporting and refuting this > >claim. > >I just find it interesting. > >Take care, > >John > > >John A. Ramsey Jr., Esq. > > >Gainesville, FL 32609 > > >Phone: (352) 505-6642 > > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] > >On Behalf Of Angie Matney > >Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 5:17 PM > >To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > >Subject: [blindlaw] Multiple LSAT Scores > > > >Here's what UVA's web site says: > > >What is your policy on multiple LSAT scores? > >The ABA requires law schools to report LSAT information using an > >admitted students highest score, so that is the score to which we give > >the most weight. We evaluate all information submitted as part of the > >application for admission, however, including all scores earned on the > >LSAT. Studies by the Law School Admission Council suggest that in most > >cases the average score is the most accurate predictor of academic > >performance in the first year of law school, so we encourage applicants > >with a significant difference in LSAT scores to include with their > >application any information that may be relevant to the interpretation > >of test results, such as illness, testing conditions, or other > >circumstances that may have affected LSAT performance. > > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >blindlaw mailing list > >blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >blindlaw: > >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joramsey%40cox > >.net > > > >_______________________________________________ > >blindlaw mailing list > >blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >blindlaw: > >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdborne%40gmai > >l.co > >m > > > >_______________________________________________ > >blindlaw mailing list > >blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >blindlaw: > >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jmccarthy%40nf > >b.org > > >_______________________________________________ > >blindlaw mailing list > >blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie%40mpmail.net > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/timandvickie%40hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live™ Contacts: Organize your contact list. http://windowslive.com/connect/post/marcusatmicrosoft.spaces.live.com-Blog-cns!503D1D86EBB2B53C!2285.entry?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_UGC_Contacts_032009 From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Mon Mar 16 07:20:49 2009 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 00:20:49 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] LSAC Reader Settlement In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <08890DCEE5D94AAB801E3BCF1EA35E85@spike> many corporate sites that use a captcha or random code that you are referring to can provide an audio alternative. This is done on many major web sites such as Pay Pal EBay and MSN. this would address the problem as you can hear the code that appears on the screen. The problem with some of the audio alternatives is that the voices are intentionally garbled and spoken in different pitches and dialects which causes confusion. This is done to try to simulate the appearance of what is on the screen as it is apparently somewhat garbled in appearance. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. Deeley" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 1:56 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAC Reader Settlement > Rod, How would you suggest that I approach a bank who has a Web site that > is not quite accessible. They want the user to type in a random code. Of > course, the Window-eyes will not read the code. I've talked with them > twice and they can't seem to understand how to fix the problem. I'm > planning to have a AT professional speak with them in the near future. I > really don't want to seem adversarial when I speak with them again. > > Steve > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Rod Alcidonis" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 10:02 AM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAC Reader Settlement > > >>I only hope that for that reason, Angie, that any settlement with them >>this >> time has more teeth. Otherwise, we will be in the same place 5-10 years >> down >> the road. The LSAC has demonstrated times and again that they are not an >> entity willing to abide by legal obligations. Not only in not publishing >> their reader policy to test takers but in granting other >> accommodations -- >> where there is no standard to guide the process. I had accommodations >> that >> were granted to me because of blindness and denied to others also because >> of >> blindness. >> >> Rod Alcidonis >> Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009. >> Roger Williams University School of Law >> 10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 >> Bristol, RI 02809 >> Cell: 718-704-4651 >> Home: 401-824-8685 >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Angie Matney" >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 6:41 AM >> Subject: [blindlaw] LSAC Reader Settlement >> >> >>> Did LSAC ever put anything up on their site concerning their reader >>> policy? If memory serves, you had to request that this info be sent to >>> you >>> when I was applying. >>> >>> Angie >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail.com >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/2001 - Release Date: 03/14/09 > 06:54:00 > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net From joramsey at cox.net Mon Mar 16 08:12:25 2009 From: joramsey at cox.net (John ) Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 04:12:25 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] LSAC Reader Settlement In-Reply-To: <08890DCEE5D94AAB801E3BCF1EA35E85@spike> Message-ID: <7739ABEF6A0C423E9B86E30512012A5A@noneeb869fea9a> Chuck, And the garbled audio is exactly what defeats the purpose of the so called alternative. Have many of you had any real success using the audio alternatives. I know I certainly haven't and that is one of the big things I would like to see addressed is some way to get screen readers to read those captias. John John A. Ramsey Jr., Esq. Gainesville, FL 32609 Phone: (352) 505-6642 -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 3:21 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAC Reader Settlement many corporate sites that use a captcha or random code that you are referring to can provide an audio alternative. This is done on many major web sites such as Pay Pal EBay and MSN. this would address the problem as you can hear the code that appears on the screen. The problem with some of the audio alternatives is that the voices are intentionally garbled and spoken in different pitches and dialects which causes confusion. This is done to try to simulate the appearance of what is on the screen as it is apparently somewhat garbled in appearance. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. Deeley" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 1:56 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAC Reader Settlement > Rod, How would you suggest that I approach a bank who has a Web site > that > is not quite accessible. They want the user to type in a random code. Of > course, the Window-eyes will not read the code. I've talked with them > twice and they can't seem to understand how to fix the problem. I'm > planning to have a AT professional speak with them in the near future. I > really don't want to seem adversarial when I speak with them again. > > Steve > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Rod Alcidonis" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 10:02 AM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAC Reader Settlement > > >>I only hope that for that reason, Angie, that any settlement with them >>this >> time has more teeth. Otherwise, we will be in the same place 5-10 years >> down >> the road. The LSAC has demonstrated times and again that they are not an >> entity willing to abide by legal obligations. Not only in not publishing >> their reader policy to test takers but in granting other >> accommodations -- >> where there is no standard to guide the process. I had accommodations >> that >> were granted to me because of blindness and denied to others also because >> of >> blindness. >> >> Rod Alcidonis >> Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009. >> Roger Williams University School of Law >> 10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 >> Bristol, RI 02809 >> Cell: 718-704-4651 >> Home: 401-824-8685 >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Angie Matney" >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 6:41 AM >> Subject: [blindlaw] LSAC Reader Settlement >> >> >>> Did LSAC ever put anything up on their site concerning their reader >>> policy? If memory serves, you had to request that this info be sent >>> to you when I was applying. >>> >>> Angie >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> blindlaw: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail. com >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in sightbb.com > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/2001 - Release Date: > 03/14/09 > 06:54:00 > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob al.net _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joramsey%40cox.net From everett at zufelt.ca Mon Mar 16 09:18:23 2009 From: everett at zufelt.ca (E.J. Zufelt) Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 06:18:23 -0300 Subject: [blindlaw] LSAC Reader Settlement In-Reply-To: <7739ABEF6A0C423E9B86E30512012A5A@noneeb869fea9a> References: <7739ABEF6A0C423E9B86E30512012A5A@noneeb869fea9a> Message-ID: <4A500E46-5A53-43F0-B5F2-2BFF27FAAE34@zufelt.ca> Good morning, Have you tried to use the Firefox Webvisum plugin for solving the bank CAPTCHA? Everett On 16-Mar-09, at 5:12 AM, John wrote: > Chuck, > And the garbled audio is exactly what defeats the purpose of the so > called > alternative. Have many of you had any real success using the audio > alternatives. I know I certainly haven't and that is one of the big > things I > would like to see addressed is some way to get screen readers to > read those > captias. > John > > John A. Ramsey Jr., Esq. > > Gainesville, FL 32609 > > Phone: (352) 505-6642 > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw- > bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net > Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 3:21 AM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAC Reader Settlement > > > many corporate sites that use a captcha or random code that you are > referring to can provide an audio alternative. This is done on many > major > web sites such as Pay Pal EBay and MSN. this would address the > problem as > you can hear the code that appears on the screen. The problem with > some of > the audio alternatives is that the voices are intentionally garbled > and > spoken in different pitches and dialects which causes confusion. > This is > done to try to simulate the appearance of what is on the screen as > it is > apparently somewhat garbled in appearance. > Chuck > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Steve P. Deeley" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 1:56 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAC Reader Settlement > > >> Rod, How would you suggest that I approach a bank who has a Web site >> that >> is not quite accessible. They want the user to type in a random >> code. Of > >> course, the Window-eyes will not read the code. I've talked with >> them >> twice and they can't seem to understand how to fix the problem. I'm >> planning to have a AT professional speak with them in the near >> future. I >> really don't want to seem adversarial when I speak with them again. >> >> Steve >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Rod Alcidonis" >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 10:02 AM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAC Reader Settlement >> >> >>> I only hope that for that reason, Angie, that any settlement with >>> them >>> this >>> time has more teeth. Otherwise, we will be in the same place 5-10 >>> years >>> down >>> the road. The LSAC has demonstrated times and again that they are >>> not an >>> entity willing to abide by legal obligations. Not only in not >>> publishing >>> their reader policy to test takers but in granting other >>> accommodations -- >>> where there is no standard to guide the process. I had >>> accommodations >>> that >>> were granted to me because of blindness and denied to others also >>> because > >>> of >>> blindness. >>> >>> Rod Alcidonis >>> Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009. >>> Roger Williams University School of Law >>> 10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 >>> Bristol, RI 02809 >>> Cell: 718-704-4651 >>> Home: 401-824-8685 >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Angie Matney" >>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>> Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 6:41 AM >>> Subject: [blindlaw] LSAC Reader Settlement >>> >>> >>>> Did LSAC ever put anything up on their site concerning their reader >>>> policy? If memory serves, you had to request that this info be sent >>>> to you when I was applying. >>>> >>>> Angie >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail > . > com >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> blindlaw: >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in > sightbb.com >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> ---------- >> >> >> >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/2001 - Release Date: >> 03/14/09 >> 06:54:00 >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob > al.net > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joramsey%40cox.net > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/everett%40zufelt.ca From joramsey at cox.net Mon Mar 16 09:50:03 2009 From: joramsey at cox.net (John ) Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 05:50:03 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] LSAC Reader Settlement In-Reply-To: <4A500E46-5A53-43F0-B5F2-2BFF27FAAE34@zufelt.ca> Message-ID: <02059BC7B570457D8946FD3E1668C8B3@noneeb869fea9a> Everett, I have found that the Webvisum plug in almost never works. Apparently there is a form of captia that it is not compatible with and that is the form that seems to be universally used on the internet. Take care, John John A. Ramsey Jr., Esq. Gainesville, FL 32609 Phone: (352) 505-6642 -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of E.J. Zufelt Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 5:18 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAC Reader Settlement Good morning, Have you tried to use the Firefox Webvisum plugin for solving the bank CAPTCHA? Everett On 16-Mar-09, at 5:12 AM, John wrote: > Chuck, > And the garbled audio is exactly what defeats the purpose of the so > called > alternative. Have many of you had any real success using the audio > alternatives. I know I certainly haven't and that is one of the big > things I > would like to see addressed is some way to get screen readers to > read those > captias. > John > > John A. Ramsey Jr., Esq. > > Gainesville, FL 32609 > > Phone: (352) 505-6642 > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw- > bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net > Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 3:21 AM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAC Reader Settlement > > > many corporate sites that use a captcha or random code that you are > referring to can provide an audio alternative. This is done on many > major > web sites such as Pay Pal EBay and MSN. this would address the > problem as > you can hear the code that appears on the screen. The problem with > some of > the audio alternatives is that the voices are intentionally garbled > and > spoken in different pitches and dialects which causes confusion. > This is > done to try to simulate the appearance of what is on the screen as > it is > apparently somewhat garbled in appearance. > Chuck > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Steve P. Deeley" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 1:56 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAC Reader Settlement > > >> Rod, How would you suggest that I approach a bank who has a Web site >> that is not quite accessible. They want the user to type in a random >> code. Of > >> course, the Window-eyes will not read the code. I've talked with >> them >> twice and they can't seem to understand how to fix the problem. I'm >> planning to have a AT professional speak with them in the near >> future. I >> really don't want to seem adversarial when I speak with them again. >> >> Steve >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Rod Alcidonis" >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 10:02 AM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAC Reader Settlement >> >> >>> I only hope that for that reason, Angie, that any settlement with >>> them >>> this >>> time has more teeth. Otherwise, we will be in the same place 5-10 >>> years >>> down >>> the road. The LSAC has demonstrated times and again that they are >>> not an >>> entity willing to abide by legal obligations. Not only in not >>> publishing >>> their reader policy to test takers but in granting other >>> accommodations -- >>> where there is no standard to guide the process. I had >>> accommodations >>> that >>> were granted to me because of blindness and denied to others also >>> because > >>> of >>> blindness. >>> >>> Rod Alcidonis >>> Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009. >>> Roger Williams University School of Law >>> 10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 >>> Bristol, RI 02809 >>> Cell: 718-704-4651 >>> Home: 401-824-8685 >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Angie Matney" >>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>> Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 6:41 AM >>> Subject: [blindlaw] LSAC Reader Settlement >>> >>> >>>> Did LSAC ever put anything up on their site concerning their reader >>>> policy? If memory serves, you had to request that this info be sent >>>> to you when I was applying. >>>> >>>> Angie >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40ho > tmail > . > com >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> blindlaw: >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deele > y%40in > sightbb.com >> >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> - >> ---------- >> >> >> >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/2001 - Release Date: >> 03/14/09 06:54:00 >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40s > bcglob > al.net > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joramsey%40c > ox.net > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/everett%40zufelt.c a _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joramsey%40cox.net From roddj12 at hotmail.com Mon Mar 16 10:19:30 2009 From: roddj12 at hotmail.com (Rod Alcidonis) Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 06:19:30 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] LSAC Reader Settlement References: <02059BC7B570457D8946FD3E1668C8B3@noneeb869fea9a> Message-ID: I have encountered a different form of captia, where the site would say something like: "what's 4 plus 4? Type in the result in the box below." Others would even ask you something like: "how many months are in a year?" I found these to be much more effective than the other alternatives. Rod Alcidonis Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009. Roger Williams University School of Law 10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 Bristol, RI 02809 Cell: 718-704-4651 Home: 401-824-8685 ----- Original Message ----- From: "John " To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 5:50 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAC Reader Settlement > Everett, > I have found that the Webvisum plug in almost never works. Apparently > there > is a form of captia that it is not compatible with and that is the form > that > seems to be universally used on the internet. > Take care, > John > > John A. Ramsey Jr., Esq. > > Gainesville, FL 32609 > > Phone: (352) 505-6642 > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of E.J. Zufelt > Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 5:18 AM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAC Reader Settlement > > > Good morning, > > Have you tried to use the Firefox Webvisum plugin for solving the bank > CAPTCHA? > > Everett > > > On 16-Mar-09, at 5:12 AM, John wrote: > >> Chuck, >> And the garbled audio is exactly what defeats the purpose of the so >> called >> alternative. Have many of you had any real success using the audio >> alternatives. I know I certainly haven't and that is one of the big >> things I >> would like to see addressed is some way to get screen readers to >> read those >> captias. >> John >> >> John A. Ramsey Jr., Esq. >> >> Gainesville, FL 32609 >> >> Phone: (352) 505-6642 >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw- >> bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net >> Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 3:21 AM >> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAC Reader Settlement >> >> >> many corporate sites that use a captcha or random code that you are >> referring to can provide an audio alternative. This is done on many >> major >> web sites such as Pay Pal EBay and MSN. this would address the >> problem as >> you can hear the code that appears on the screen. The problem with >> some of >> the audio alternatives is that the voices are intentionally garbled >> and >> spoken in different pitches and dialects which causes confusion. >> This is >> done to try to simulate the appearance of what is on the screen as >> it is >> apparently somewhat garbled in appearance. >> Chuck >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Steve P. Deeley" >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 1:56 PM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAC Reader Settlement >> >> >>> Rod, How would you suggest that I approach a bank who has a Web site >>> that is not quite accessible. They want the user to type in a random >>> code. Of >> >>> course, the Window-eyes will not read the code. I've talked with >>> them >>> twice and they can't seem to understand how to fix the problem. I'm >>> planning to have a AT professional speak with them in the near >>> future. I >>> really don't want to seem adversarial when I speak with them again. >>> >>> Steve >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Rod Alcidonis" >>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>> Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 10:02 AM >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAC Reader Settlement >>> >>> >>>> I only hope that for that reason, Angie, that any settlement with >>>> them >>>> this >>>> time has more teeth. Otherwise, we will be in the same place 5-10 >>>> years >>>> down >>>> the road. The LSAC has demonstrated times and again that they are >>>> not an >>>> entity willing to abide by legal obligations. Not only in not >>>> publishing >>>> their reader policy to test takers but in granting other >>>> accommodations -- >>>> where there is no standard to guide the process. I had >>>> accommodations >>>> that >>>> were granted to me because of blindness and denied to others also >>>> because >> >>>> of >>>> blindness. >>>> >>>> Rod Alcidonis >>>> Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009. >>>> Roger Williams University School of Law >>>> 10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 >>>> Bristol, RI 02809 >>>> Cell: 718-704-4651 >>>> Home: 401-824-8685 >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Angie Matney" >>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>> Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 6:41 AM >>>> Subject: [blindlaw] LSAC Reader Settlement >>>> >>>> >>>>> Did LSAC ever put anything up on their site concerning their reader >>>>> policy? If memory serves, you had to request that this info be sent >>>>> to you when I was applying. >>>>> >>>>> Angie >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> blindlaw: >>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40ho >> tmail >> . >> com >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deele >> y%40in >> sightbb.com >>> >>> >>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> - >>> ---------- >>> >>> >>> >>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>> Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/2001 - Release Date: >>> 03/14/09 06:54:00 >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40s >> bcglob >> al.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joramsey%40c >> ox.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/everett%40zufelt.c > a > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joramsey%40cox.net > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail.com > From angie at mpmail.net Mon Mar 16 11:22:28 2009 From: angie at mpmail.net (Angie Matney) Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 07:22:28 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Multiple LSAT Scores In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hey=20Tim, I=20only=20wish=20I'd=20done=20as=20well=20on=20the=20other=20parts.=20(gr= in) Angie On=20Mon,=2016=20Mar=202009=2003:57:11=20+0000,=20Tim=20Shaw=20wrote: >i=20as=20well=20gdid=20not=20find=20the=20logic=20pro=20blems=20to=20b=20= e=20to=20bad=20sin=20ce=20I=20was=20in=20GT=20classes=20since=20age=203,=20= gifted=20and=20talented=20that=20is,=20where=20qwe=20diod=20such=20problem= s=20since=20kindergarden=20on=20and=20off.=20I=20did=20not=20however=20req= uest=20as=20much=20time=20as=20i=20shouldf=20=20 have=20for=20thtest=20so=20i=20was=20rushed=20in=20ever=20section >=20 >>=20From:=20angie at mpmail.net >>=20To:=20blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>=20Date:=20Sun,=2015=20Mar=202009=2020:50:53=20-0400 >>=20Subject:=20Re:=20[blindlaw]=20Multiple=20LSAT=20Scores >>=20 >>=20I=20guess=20I'm=20solidly=20in=20the=20minority:=20I=20liked=20the=20= logic=20games.=20In=20fact,=20I=20think=20I=20got=20a=20perfect=20score=20= on=20that=20section.=20This=20might=20have=20been=20due=20in=20part=20to=20= all=20those=20years=20I=20wasted--er,=20spent=20in=20math=20grad=20school.= =20(grin) >>=20 >>=20Angie >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20On=20Sun,=2015=20Mar=202009=2015:43:17=20-0400,=20McCarthy,=20Jim=20w= rote: >>=20 >>=20>I=20take=20Craig's=20point,=20but=20I=20do=20think=20that=20the=20lo= gic=20games=20or=20whatever >>=20>they=20are=20called=20may=20actually=20measure=20one's=20ability=20t= o=20apply=20conditions. >>=20>And=20though=20I=20hated=20those=20questions=20and=20found=20them=20= difficult=20as=20a=20blind >>=20>person=20not=20to=20mention=20just=20weird,=20I=20think=20that=20pro= perly=20using=20conditions >>=20>may=20be=20a=20valuable=20thing=20to=20do=20in=20law=20school=20and=20= beyond=20as=20a=20lawyer.=20 >>=20 >>=20>Now=20to=20the=20real=20point=20though,=20I=20imagine=20that=20regar= dless=20what=20the=20studies >>=20>say=20about=20the=20predictive=20power=20of=20the=20LSAT,=20the=20on= e=20thing=20it=20possibly >>=20>can=20do=20is=20rank=20candidates.=20There=20is=20so=20much=20variab= ility=20among=20the >>=20>higher=20education=20institutions=20of=20this=20country=20that=20gra= des=20are=20probably >>=20>somewhat=20meaningless=20because=20we=20really=20don't=20know=20what= =20kind=20of=20effort=20a >>=20>student=20must=20put=20forward=20to=20get=20a=20particular=20grade=20= at=20any=20particular >>=20>institution.=20The=20possible=20answer=20to=20this=20is=20to=20make=20= us=20all=20take=20the >>=20>same=20dull=20test=20and=20compare=20us=20that=20way.=20 >>=20 >>=20>-----Original=20Message----- >>=20>From:=20blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org=20[mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbne= t.org] >>=20>On=20Behalf=20Of=20Craig=20Borne >>=20>Sent:=20Sunday,=20March=2015,=202009=201:51=20PM >>=20>To:=20'NFBnet=20Blind=20Law=20Mailing=20List' >>=20>Subject:=20Re:=20[blindlaw]=20Multiple=20LSAT=20Scores >>=20 >>=20>John, >>=20 >>=20>I=20agree.=20Never=20in=20my=203=201/2=20years=20of=20law=20school=20= was=20I=20asked=20to=20calculate >>=20>how=20many=20green=20M=20and=20Ms=20would=20fit=20in=20a=20school=20= locker. >>=20 >>=20>Craig >>=20 >>=20>Craig=20Borne >>=20>Baltimore,=20Maryland >>=20>"A=20long=20habit=20of=20not=20thinking=20a=20thing=20wrong,=20gives= =20it=20a=20superficial >>=20>appearance=20of=20being=20right,=20and=20raises=20at=20first=20a=20f= ormidable=20outcry=20in >>=20>defense=20of=20custom."=20--Thomas=20Paine,=20Common=20Sense >>=20 >>=20>-----Original=20Message----- >>=20>From:=20blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org=20[mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbne= t.org] >>=20>On=20Behalf=20Of=20John >>=20>Sent:=20Saturday,=20March=2014,=202009=206:10=20PM >>=20>To:=20'NFBnet=20Blind=20Law=20Mailing=20List' >>=20>Subject:=20Re:=20[blindlaw]=20Multiple=20LSAT=20Scores >>=20 >>=20>It=20has=20been=20several=20years=20since=20I=20had=20the=20displeas= ure=20of=20taking=20the >>=20>LSAT,=20but=20something=20I=20have=20always=20pondered=20about=20is=20= this=20fictional >>=20>belief=20that=20the=20LSAT=20score=20is=20an=20accurate=20predictor=20= of=20how=20a=20student >>=20>will=20do=20in=20his=20first=20year=20of=20law=20school.=20I=20perso= nally=20believe=20that=20it=20is >>=20>not=20a=20predictor=20of=20anything,=20much=20less,=20how=20a=20pers= on=20will=20perform=20in=20law >>=20>school. >>=20>I=20am=20sure=20that=20there=20a=20thousand=20studies=20supporting=20= and=20refuting=20this >>=20>claim. >>=20>I=20just=20find=20it=20interesting. >>=20>Take=20care, >>=20>John >>=20 >>=20>John=20A.=20Ramsey=20Jr.,=20Esq. >>=20 >>=20>Gainesville,=20FL=2032609 >>=20 >>=20>Phone:=20(352)=20505-6642 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20>-----Original=20Message----- >>=20>From:=20blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org=20[mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbne= t.org] >>=20>On=20Behalf=20Of=20Angie=20Matney >>=20>Sent:=20Saturday,=20March=2014,=202009=205:17=20PM >>=20>To:=20NFBnet=20Blind=20Law=20Mailing=20List >>=20>Subject:=20[blindlaw]=20Multiple=20LSAT=20Scores >>=20 >>=20 >>=20>Here's=20what=20UVA's=20web=20site=20says: >>=20 >>=20>What=20is=20your=20policy=20on=20multiple=20LSAT=20scores? >>=20>The=20ABA=20requires=20law=20schools=20to=20report=20LSAT=20informat= ion=20using=20an >>=20>admitted=20student=19s=20highest=20score,=20so=20that=20is=20the=20s= core=20to=20which=20we=20give >>=20>the=20most=20weight.=20We=20evaluate=20all=20information=20submitted= =20as=20part=20of=20the >>=20>application=20for=20admission,=20however,=20including=20all=20scores= =20earned=20on=20the >>=20>LSAT.=20Studies=20by=20the=20Law=20School=20Admission=20Council=20su= ggest=20that=20in=20most >>=20>cases=20the=20average=20score=20is=20the=20most=20accurate=20predict= or=20of=20academic >>=20>performance=20in=20the=20first=20year=20of=20law=20school,=20so=20we= =20encourage=20applicants >>=20>with=20a=20significant=20difference=20in=20LSAT=20scores=20to=20incl= ude=20with=20their >>=20>application=20any=20information=20that=20may=20be=20relevant=20to=20= the=20interpretation >>=20>of=20test=20results,=20such=20as=20illness,=20testing=20conditions,=20= or=20other >>=20>circumstances=20that=20may=20have=20affected=20LSAT=20performance.=20= >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20>_______________________________________________ >>=20>blindlaw=20mailing=20list >>=20>blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>=20>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>=20>To=20unsubscribe,=20change=20your=20list=20options=20or=20get=20your= =20account=20info=20for >>=20>blindlaw: >>=20>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joramsey%4= 0cox >>=20>.net >>=20 >>=20 >>=20>_______________________________________________ >>=20>blindlaw=20mailing=20list >>=20>blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>=20>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>=20>To=20unsubscribe,=20change=20your=20list=20options=20or=20get=20your= =20account=20info=20for >>=20>blindlaw: >>=20>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdborne%40= gmai >>=20>l.co >>=20>m >>=20 >>=20 >>=20>_______________________________________________ >>=20>blindlaw=20mailing=20list >>=20>blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>=20>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>=20>To=20unsubscribe,=20change=20your=20list=20options=20or=20get=20your= =20account=20info=20for >>=20>blindlaw: >>=20>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jmccarthy%= 40nf >>=20>b.org >>=20 >>=20>_______________________________________________ >>=20>blindlaw=20mailing=20list >>=20>blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>=20>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>=20>To=20unsubscribe,=20change=20your=20list=20options=20or=20get=20your= =20account=20info=20for=20blindlaw: >>=20>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie%40mp= mail.net >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20_______________________________________________ >>=20blindlaw=20mailing=20list >>=20blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>=20http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>=20To=20unsubscribe,=20change=20your=20list=20options=20or=20get=20your=20= account=20info=20for=20blindlaw: >>=20http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/timandvicki= e%40hotmail.com >_________________________________________________________________ >Windows=20Live=99=20Contacts:=20Organize=20your=20contact=20list.=20 >http://windowslive.com/connect/post/marcusatmicrosoft.spaces.live.com-Blo= g-cns!503D1D86EBB2B53C!2285.entry?ocid=3DTXT_TAGLM_WL_UGC_Contacts_032009 >_______________________________________________ >blindlaw=20mailing=20list >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >To=20unsubscribe,=20change=20your=20list=20options=20or=20get=20your=20ac= count=20info=20for=20blindlaw: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie%40mpmail.= net From angie at mpmail.net Mon Mar 16 11:26:23 2009 From: angie at mpmail.net (Angie Matney) Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 07:26:23 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] LSAC Reader Settlement In-Reply-To: <7739ABEF6A0C423E9B86E30512012A5A@noneeb869fea9a> Message-ID: Hi John, Have you tried listening to those audio captchas with headphones? I usually listen to my computer with headphones anyway, but I think it makes a real difference in decoding those annoying audio captchas. The most inaccessible forms of verification I have encountered involve several pictures, and a statement like, "Roll your mouse over all the images that are images of cats." Angie On Mon, 16 Mar 2009 04:12:25 -0400, John wrote: >Chuck, >And the garbled audio is exactly what defeats the purpose of the so called >alternative. Have many of you had any real success using the audio >alternatives. I know I certainly haven't and that is one of the big things I >would like to see addressed is some way to get screen readers to read those >captias. >John >John A. Ramsey Jr., Esq. >Gainesville, FL 32609 >Phone: (352) 505-6642 >-----Original Message----- >From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net >Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 3:21 AM >To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAC Reader Settlement >many corporate sites that use a captcha or random code that you are >referring to can provide an audio alternative. This is done on many major >web sites such as Pay Pal EBay and MSN. this would address the problem as >you can hear the code that appears on the screen. The problem with some of >the audio alternatives is that the voices are intentionally garbled and >spoken in different pitches and dialects which causes confusion. This is >done to try to simulate the appearance of what is on the screen as it is >apparently somewhat garbled in appearance. >Chuck >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Steve P. Deeley" >To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 1:56 PM >Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAC Reader Settlement >> Rod, How would you suggest that I approach a bank who has a Web site >> that >> is not quite accessible. They want the user to type in a random code. Of >> course, the Window-eyes will not read the code. I've talked with them >> twice and they can't seem to understand how to fix the problem. I'm >> planning to have a AT professional speak with them in the near future. I >> really don't want to seem adversarial when I speak with them again. >> >> Steve >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Rod Alcidonis" >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 10:02 AM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAC Reader Settlement >> >> >>>I only hope that for that reason, Angie, that any settlement with them >>>this >>> time has more teeth. Otherwise, we will be in the same place 5-10 years >>> down >>> the road. The LSAC has demonstrated times and again that they are not an >>> entity willing to abide by legal obligations. Not only in not publishing >>> their reader policy to test takers but in granting other >>> accommodations -- >>> where there is no standard to guide the process. I had accommodations >>> that >>> were granted to me because of blindness and denied to others also because >>> of >>> blindness. >>> >>> Rod Alcidonis >>> Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009. >>> Roger Williams University School of Law >>> 10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 >>> Bristol, RI 02809 >>> Cell: 718-704-4651 >>> Home: 401-824-8685 >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Angie Matney" >>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>> Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 6:41 AM >>> Subject: [blindlaw] LSAC Reader Settlement >>> >>> >>>> Did LSAC ever put anything up on their site concerning their reader >>>> policy? If memory serves, you had to request that this info be sent >>>> to you when I was applying. >>>> >>>> Angie >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail. >com >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in >sightbb.com >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> ---------- >> >> >> >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/2001 - Release Date: >> 03/14/09 >> 06:54:00 >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob >al.net >_______________________________________________ >blindlaw mailing list >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >blindlaw: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joramsey%40cox.net >_______________________________________________ >blindlaw mailing list >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie%40mpmail.net From rjaquiss at earthlink.net Mon Mar 16 13:42:29 2009 From: rjaquiss at earthlink.net (Robert Jaquiss) Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 08:42:29 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] LSAC Reader Settlement References: <7739ABEF6A0C423E9B86E30512012A5A@noneeb869fea9a> Message-ID: Hello: A big problem with CAPTCHAs is that according to my sighted wife, the letters displayed on the screen are themselves not clearly displayed. A screen reader would need to do OCR on an image accurately and fast enough to deal with time limitations on entering the characters. Regards, Robert ----- Original Message ----- From: "John " To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 3:12 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAC Reader Settlement > Chuck, > And the garbled audio is exactly what defeats the purpose of the so called > alternative. Have many of you had any real success using the audio > alternatives. I know I certainly haven't and that is one of the big things > I > would like to see addressed is some way to get screen readers to read > those > captias. > John > > John A. Ramsey Jr., Esq. > > Gainesville, FL 32609 > > Phone: (352) 505-6642 > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net > Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 3:21 AM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAC Reader Settlement > > > many corporate sites that use a captcha or random code that you are > referring to can provide an audio alternative. This is done on many major > web sites such as Pay Pal EBay and MSN. this would address the problem as > you can hear the code that appears on the screen. The problem with some of > the audio alternatives is that the voices are intentionally garbled and > spoken in different pitches and dialects which causes confusion. This is > done to try to simulate the appearance of what is on the screen as it is > apparently somewhat garbled in appearance. > Chuck > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Steve P. Deeley" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 1:56 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAC Reader Settlement > > >> Rod, How would you suggest that I approach a bank who has a Web site >> that >> is not quite accessible. They want the user to type in a random code. >> Of > >> course, the Window-eyes will not read the code. I've talked with them >> twice and they can't seem to understand how to fix the problem. I'm >> planning to have a AT professional speak with them in the near future. I >> really don't want to seem adversarial when I speak with them again. >> >> Steve >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Rod Alcidonis" >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 10:02 AM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAC Reader Settlement >> >> >>>I only hope that for that reason, Angie, that any settlement with them >>>this >>> time has more teeth. Otherwise, we will be in the same place 5-10 years >>> down >>> the road. The LSAC has demonstrated times and again that they are not an >>> entity willing to abide by legal obligations. Not only in not publishing >>> their reader policy to test takers but in granting other >>> accommodations -- >>> where there is no standard to guide the process. I had accommodations >>> that >>> were granted to me because of blindness and denied to others also >>> because > >>> of >>> blindness. >>> >>> Rod Alcidonis >>> Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009. >>> Roger Williams University School of Law >>> 10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 >>> Bristol, RI 02809 >>> Cell: 718-704-4651 >>> Home: 401-824-8685 >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Angie Matney" >>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>> Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 6:41 AM >>> Subject: [blindlaw] LSAC Reader Settlement >>> >>> >>>> Did LSAC ever put anything up on their site concerning their reader >>>> policy? If memory serves, you had to request that this info be sent >>>> to you when I was applying. >>>> >>>> Angie >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail. > com >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in > sightbb.com >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> ---------- >> >> >> >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/2001 - Release Date: >> 03/14/09 >> 06:54:00 >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob > al.net > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joramsey%40cox.net > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rjaquiss%40earthlink.net From Tim.Ford at cdph.ca.gov Mon Mar 16 14:41:01 2009 From: Tim.Ford at cdph.ca.gov (Ford, Tim (CDPH-OLS)) Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 07:41:01 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target In-Reply-To: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6B839AD9@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local> References: <90478605097E4FFFBD705620CC057167@StevePC> <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6B839AD9@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local> Message-ID: <839F18076C66C345BD1C0A4ACA67A1F60315B460@dhsexcmsg12.intra.dhs.ca.gov> Thank you Mr. Frye for your excellent and patient post that in my mind hits the mark exactly. This is a list for lawyers and other legal practitioners, not a list to require legal professionals to explain/justify the American legal system. Tim Ford -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Frye, Dan Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 3:12 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target List Colleagues: I suggest we stop engaging this gentleman as though his responses deserve a serious or thoughtful reply. Our good faith efforts to treat his comments with respect are only met with what is clearly a political commentary that he wants to express. While he is entitled to have whatever view of the world and civil rights that he wishes, I hardly think that his view warrants exhaustive coverage on this list that is designed to discuss legitimate matters of law, practice as blind lawyers, and the like. Responding to him only gives him repeated opportunities to articulate this hostile world view. He would be better suited to share his perspective on civil rights with a bunch of people who subscribe to his feelings, in a political forum designed for such a purpose. Dan Frye -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 4:52 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target I will guarantee most individuals in our society don't agree with the way damages are calculated. You are a lawyer, so that sort of argument from you is expected, Especially telling others who don't agree with your position or, the position of most lawyers,concerning the calculation of damages in these civil rights cases. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rod Alcidonis" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 2:23 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target If damages are not awarded as a remedy at law, the next option would be to grant some equitable relief like an injunction. No court will ask Target to shut down its website until it make it accessible to the blind. This would be considered economic waste and against the public interest if millions of people are forced to stop shopping on line. In the law's eyes, what the plaintiffs really want is for their civil rights not to be violated. If one accept to go ahead and violate them, the least that the law can afford to those plaintiffs is money. The court knows that money is not primarily what the plaintiffs are seeking, but there must be a way for the defendant to answer to society for its wrong doing. Here, it was by making the defendant compensate the plaintiffs for the harm that it caused, I.E, by making the defendant pay for violating the plaintiffs' civil rights. Keep saying the following outloud you will get it: "the damages was for the violation of the plaintiffs' civil rights, not for any physical pain or frustration in not using the Target website." For further edification of your understanding: Once the court can calculate a dollar amount (hence the amount of the damages award), equitable relief is not necessary and such prayers will not be entertained in a court of equity. Here, the court was able to come up with a dollar amount for the violation of the plaintiffs' civil rights. Steve, unless you accept to place your emotions aside and exercise a little willingness to learn, even for one day, your reactions will continue to come across as being very uninformed. I don't think you want that. That's why some of us are trying to help you here while most have resolved to ignoring your comments. If you continue to persist along the same line in light of the effort that's been made to help you out, I will have to conclude in a very respectable way that you are just an ignorant man. I am sorry. Take care. Rod Alcidonis Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009. Roger Williams University School of Law 10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 Bristol, RI 02809 Cell: 718-704-4651 Home: 401-824-8685 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. Deeley" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 12:41 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target I understand that, however, I just do not agree with the entire concept of awarding damages in this sort of case. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rod Alcidonis" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 9:27 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target Steve: The effort here was to try to help your understanding and educate your logic, not to justify the existence of the legal system. I am afraid that you are still not willing to accept that "damage" as used in the law is a term of art. Meaning, It has a specific legal definition different from normal use. It is different when you say that "my bicycle was damaged, for example. It is a legal recognition that certain harms should be compensated. In this case, the plaintiffs are being paid not for the fact that they were physically damage in the normal use of the term, but for violations of their civil rights. See Denis' e-mail for what the harm was. In the bicycle example, if someone were to break your bicycle, you can receive "damages" as the cost of repair, or replacement of the bicycle. By the way, you are also entitled to enforce your civil rights if you so choose and receive damages. Not every violations entitle someone to such remedy. When a person cannot get damages under the law, that person has the option of seeking equitable relief in the form of an injunction or restraining order against the defendant. In this case damages was available as a remedy so the plaintiffs are getting money. They are getting paid because their civil rights were violated. I hope this further helps inform your comments. Take care. Rod Alcidonis Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009. Roger Williams University School of Law 10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 Bristol, RI 02809 Cell: 718-704-4651 Home: 401-824-8685 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. Deeley" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 9:22 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target That is a lawyer talking who makes his living in rediculous situations like this one. Again, you show me how an individual was damaged and out $4,000.00. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott C. LaBarre" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 5:38 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target Violation of civil rights has long been recognized as a form of compensible legal damage as well it should be. Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. LaBarre Law Offices P.C. 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 Denver, Colorado 80222 303 504-5979 (voice) 303 757-3640 (fax) slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) www.labarrelaw.com (website) CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. Deeley" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 2:31 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > This is ridiculous! How were these people damaged? > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mehgan Sidhu" > To: > Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 3:20 PM > Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > >> To answer the recent questions posted about the Target case, the final >> settlement hearing took place on March 9th. I understand from our >> counsel in California, Larry Paradis of DRA and Josh Konecky, that there >> were no objectors and the Judge was pleased with the resolution of the >> case. The settlement is not fully "final" until the time for any >> appeals has run - which is about 30 days. Given there were no objectors, >> it is highly unlikely that any appeals will be filed. The judge has not >> yet made a ruling on attorneys fees, but that will not hold up >> enforcement of the settlement. >> >> >> >> As for disbursements, assuming there are no appeals, the claims >> administer has 45 days from the final approval date to disburse funds to >> claimants. I do not know the final tally of approved claimants, though I >> think there were several hundred. I will pass that information along >> when I have it. >> >> >> >> We will now be working on enforcing the settlement commitments that >> Target made with respect to the accessibility of the website. >> >> >> Mehgan Sidhu >> Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP >> 120 East Baltimore Street, Suite 1700 >> Baltimore, Maryland 21202 >> 410-962-1030 x1324 >> 410-385-0869 (fax) >> ms at browngold.com >> www.browngold.com >> >> Confidentiality Notice >> >> This e-mail may contain confidential information that may also be legally >> privileged and that is intended only for the use of the addressee(s) >> named above. If you are not the intended recipient or an authorized >> agent of the recipient, please be advised that any dissemination or >> copying of this e-mail, or taking of any action in reliance on the >> information contained herein, is strictly prohibited. If you have >> received this e-mail in error, please notify me immediately by use of the >> reply button, and then delete the e-mail from your system. Thank you! >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release Date: 03/13/09 > 05:59:00 > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/slabarre%40labarrelaw.com > _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release Date: 03/13/09 05:59:00 _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/2001 - Release Date: 03/14/09 06:54:00 _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/2001 - Release Date: 03/14/09 06:54:00 _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dfrye%40nfb.org _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tim.ford%40cdph.ca.gov From slabarre at labarrelaw.com Mon Mar 16 14:54:32 2009 From: slabarre at labarrelaw.com (Scott C. LaBarre) Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 08:54:32 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target References: <7DF12D30A7294ADEAA75754CE0751C02@labarre> Message-ID: <753F548D527149CFBBF781FAEB8C2CE1@labarre> Oh, I wish I had a simple answer to that wuestion. It is always astonishing to me why companies/organizations would rather fight in court than fix whatever problem caused the issue. I have seen this occur hundreds of times in my legal career. With respect to blindness, some times it comes down to a fundamental and great misunderstanding of the capacities of the blind/disabled. Any way, I could go on and on but have not the time to do so currently. Step by step and by a variety of different techniques, we will keep advancing the ball! Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. LaBarre Law Offices P.C. 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 Denver, Colorado 80222 303 504-5979 (voice) 303 757-3640 (fax) slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) www.labarrelaw.com (website) CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Pepper" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 12:41 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target Scott: What I do not get is why these companies are willing to go to court and spend all this money and put themselves into so much risk, when the solutions to these problems are actually just a matter of rolling up the sleeves and rebuilding the website. For instance I just took a look at the Target website. Right now as I type this it has 940 errors in its HTML code and 109 warnings according to the World Wide Web Consortium which sets the international standards the codes used to write websites. This is appalling! Their CSS errors are 38 errors, and 335 warnings. This means that they are not even up to the international standards for writing code properly. There is no excuse for this! The LSAT is using the wrong program to make their PDF files. They are using a program that fragments the content into such tiny pieces that the text cannot be put back together again. It is all gibberish. But this can be fixed! What I do not get is why this is such a problem for people to make their websites accessible? Why are they willing to fight in court, spend millions of dollars in settlement when the solutions are right in front of them! I am just amazed at the waste! James Pepper On Sat, Mar 14, 2009 at 9:19 PM, Scott C. LaBarre wrote: > The standards used are those of WCAG and Sec. 508. I did not work > directly > on Target and cannot tell you exactly the access barriers. I can tell you > that with respect to filing applications to law schools through LSAC on > their website, it is impossible to fill those applications out > independently > using screen reading softaware. Let me also assure list members that we > don't simply jump on a website, encounter difficulty, and then sue them > the > next day. A lawsuit is the last resort when the entity is not willing to > deal with us otherwise. Just because we are a small minority does not > mean > that our right to the mainstream of society must always be subservient to > the majority's unwillingness to consider us due to our small numbers. > Unless someone has a new point to be made on this topic, I respectfully > suggest that we move onto different discussions. Let's also agree to > disagree on certain points. > Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. > > LaBarre Law Offices P.C. > 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 > Denver, Colorado 80222 > 303 504-5979 (voice) > 303 757-3640 (fax) > slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) > www.labarrelaw.com (website) > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and > privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may > not > read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this > message > in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or > slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. This > message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic > Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Orozco" > To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" > Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 8:52 AM > > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > > What troubles me is that my question of accessibility standards has not > been > answered on the other case against the LSAC. The same question is > applicable here. What standard was used to conclude that the web site was > not accessible? I do not claim to be a genius at manipulating technology > to > serve my needs, but I did not have to try hard at all to make Target give > me > what I needed between 2005 and 2008. So is the problem the web site > layout, > or is it our own technology training? Rather than chase every entity with > features a few people deem inaccessible, would it not be prudent to take > our > standards, whatever those may be, to the classroom, to the software > developers, the relevant associations raising the performance standards of > its students and members? This method of engineering change gives us the > perception of a watchdog group. If this is what we have become, and given > the small margin of the population we represent, I would rather trigger > change at the source rather than at the output. > > Joe Orozco > > "A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the > crowd."--Max Lucado > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley > Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 9:24 AM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > That should not result in you receiving damages of almost $4,000.00. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 4:35 AM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > > As an individual I am insulted and damaged each time I am > discriminated by a > business not accommodating my ability to access their products > and services, > especially on the Internet when I have made sure that I have > accommodated > myself with the most up-to-date software to mitigate my needs as a blind > person. I should not have to rely on sighted assistance to use > a product or > do without because the greedy corporations has chosen the most expedient > road to sell their products. I am also insulted that you are > posting this > question. I have in my life time been sold out by too many > blind people that > thought they knew what I needed and I hope more companies will > have to pay > damages in these types of cases. Perhaps they will then learn > how to meet > the needs of all their customers. Fortunately here in California we have > some laws with some teeth in them that are > enforceable--although these teeth > still need a good sharpening. > Chuck > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. Deeley" < > stevep.deeley at insightbb.com> > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 6:22 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > > That is a lawyer talking who makes his living in rediculous > situations like > this one. Again, you show me how an individual was damaged and out > $4,000.00. > Steve > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott C. LaBarre" < > slabarre at labarrelaw.com> > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 5:38 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > > Violation of civil rights has long been recognized as a form of > compensible > legal damage as well it should be. > Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. > > LaBarre Law Offices P.C. > 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 > Denver, Colorado 80222 > 303 504-5979 (voice) > 303 757-3640 (fax) > slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) > www.labarrelaw.com (website) > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential > and privileged > information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read, > copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in > error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or > slabarre at labarrelaw.com, > and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and > any attachments > are covered by the Electronic > Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. Deeley" < > stevep.deeley at insightbb.com> > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 2:31 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > > This is ridiculous! How were these people damaged? >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mehgan Sidhu" >> To: >> Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 3:20 PM >> Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target >> >> >> To answer the recent questions posted about the Target case, >>> >> the final > >> settlement hearing took place on March 9th. I understand from our >>> counsel in California, Larry Paradis of DRA and Josh >>> >> Konecky, that there > >> were no objectors and the Judge was pleased with the >>> >> resolution of the > >> case. The settlement is not fully "final" until the time for any >>> appeals has run - which is about 30 days. Given there were >>> >> no objectors, > >> it is highly unlikely that any appeals will be filed. The >>> >> judge has not > >> yet made a ruling on attorneys fees, but that will not hold up >>> enforcement of the settlement. >>> >>> >>> >>> As for disbursements, assuming there are no appeals, the claims >>> administer has 45 days from the final approval date to >>> >> disburse funds to > >> claimants. I do not know the final tally of approved >>> >> claimants, though I > >> think there were several hundred. I will pass that information along >>> when I have it. >>> >>> >>> >>> We will now be working on enforcing the settlement commitments that >>> Target made with respect to the accessibility of the website. >>> >>> >>> Mehgan Sidhu >>> Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP >>> 120 East Baltimore Street, Suite 1700 >>> Baltimore, Maryland 21202 >>> 410-962-1030 x1324 >>> 410-385-0869 (fax) >>> ms at browngold.com >>> www.browngold.com >>> >>> Confidentiality Notice >>> >>> This e-mail may contain confidential information that may >>> >> also be legally > >> privileged and that is intended only for the use of the addressee(s) >>> named above. If you are not the intended recipient or an authorized >>> agent of the recipient, please be advised that any dissemination or >>> copying of this e-mail, or taking of any action in reliance on the >>> information contained herein, is strictly prohibited. If you have >>> received this e-mail in error, please notify me immediately >>> >> by use of the > >> reply button, and then delete the e-mail from your system. >>> >> Thank you! > >> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep > .deeley%40insightbb.com > >> >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------------- > >> >> >> >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release >> > Date: 03/13/09 > >> 05:59:00 >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/slabar > re%40labarrelaw.com > >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep > .deeley%40insightbb.com > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------------- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release > Date: 03/13/09 > 05:59:00 > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugm > an%40sbcglobal.net > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep > .deeley%40insightbb.com > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------------- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release > Date: 03/13/09 > 05:59:00 > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jsoroz > co%40gmail.com > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of > virus signature database 3936 (20090313) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature > database 3936 (20090313) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/slabarre%40labarrelaw.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b75205%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/slabarre%40labarrelaw.com From b75205 at gmail.com Mon Mar 16 15:47:46 2009 From: b75205 at gmail.com (James Pepper) Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 10:47:46 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] LSAC Reader Settlement In-Reply-To: References: <7739ABEF6A0C423E9B86E30512012A5A@noneeb869fea9a> Message-ID: Yes the visual CAPTCHAs are very difficult to read. The purpose is to make sure a human being is ordering the order and not a machine. The better alternative is to use a Digital Signature. James Pepper On Mon, Mar 16, 2009 at 8:42 AM, Robert Jaquiss wrote: > Hello: > > A big problem with CAPTCHAs is that according to my sighted wife, the > letters displayed on the screen are themselves not clearly displayed. A > screen reader would need to do OCR on an image accurately and fast enough to > deal with time limitations on entering the characters. > > Regards, > > Robert > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "John " > To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" > Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 3:12 AM > > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAC Reader Settlement > > > Chuck, >> And the garbled audio is exactly what defeats the purpose of the so called >> alternative. Have many of you had any real success using the audio >> alternatives. I know I certainly haven't and that is one of the big things >> I >> would like to see addressed is some way to get screen readers to read >> those >> captias. >> John >> >> John A. Ramsey Jr., Esq. >> >> Gainesville, FL 32609 >> >> Phone: (352) 505-6642 >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net >> Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 3:21 AM >> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAC Reader Settlement >> >> >> many corporate sites that use a captcha or random code that you are >> referring to can provide an audio alternative. This is done on many major >> web sites such as Pay Pal EBay and MSN. this would address the problem as >> you can hear the code that appears on the screen. The problem with some of >> the audio alternatives is that the voices are intentionally garbled and >> spoken in different pitches and dialects which causes confusion. This is >> done to try to simulate the appearance of what is on the screen as it is >> apparently somewhat garbled in appearance. >> Chuck >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. Deeley" < >> stevep.deeley at insightbb.com> >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 1:56 PM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAC Reader Settlement >> >> >> Rod, How would you suggest that I approach a bank who has a Web site >>> that >>> is not quite accessible. They want the user to type in a random code. Of >>> >> >> course, the Window-eyes will not read the code. I've talked with them >>> twice and they can't seem to understand how to fix the problem. I'm >>> planning to have a AT professional speak with them in the near future. I >>> really don't want to seem adversarial when I speak with them again. >>> >>> Steve >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Rod Alcidonis" >>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>> Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 10:02 AM >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAC Reader Settlement >>> >>> >>> I only hope that for that reason, Angie, that any settlement with them >>>> this >>>> time has more teeth. Otherwise, we will be in the same place 5-10 years >>>> down >>>> the road. The LSAC has demonstrated times and again that they are not an >>>> entity willing to abide by legal obligations. Not only in not publishing >>>> their reader policy to test takers but in granting other >>>> accommodations -- >>>> where there is no standard to guide the process. I had accommodations >>>> that >>>> were granted to me because of blindness and denied to others also >>>> because >>>> >>> >> of >>>> blindness. >>>> >>>> Rod Alcidonis >>>> Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009. >>>> Roger Williams University School of Law >>>> 10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 >>>> Bristol, RI 02809 >>>> Cell: 718-704-4651 >>>> Home: 401-824-8685 >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Angie Matney" >>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>>> Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 6:41 AM >>>> Subject: [blindlaw] LSAC Reader Settlement >>>> >>>> >>>> Did LSAC ever put anything up on their site concerning their reader >>>>> policy? If memory serves, you had to request that this info be sent >>>>> to you when I was applying. >>>>> >>>>> Angie >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> blindlaw: >>>>> >>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail >> . >> com >> >>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> >>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in >> sightbb.com >> >>> >>> >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> ---------- >>> >>> >>> >>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>> Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/2001 - Release Date: >>> 03/14/09 >>> 06:54:00 >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> >>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob >> al.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joramsey%40cox.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/rjaquiss%40earthlink.net >> > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b75205%40gmail.com > From stone_troll at sbcglobal.net Mon Mar 16 16:10:21 2009 From: stone_troll at sbcglobal.net (Mark BurningHawk) Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 09:10:21 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] comments needed regarding policyforaudiblepedestriansignals In-Reply-To: References: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6B26D668@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local> <52EF5BE098F045CB9C686CB25AFFBB5B@spike> Message-ID: <2A760F9B-BD1E-42B4-9E1F-C93641E869CE@sbcglobal.net> I don't know if my comments below are germane, but here's what I have experienced: I have never encountered audible crosswalk signals until I came to California, about five years ago. For the previous thirty something years, I crossed streets without such. Because of my hearing loss, I am not averse to the added information such signals give, but I feel they may hinder more than they harm . If a blind person becomes dependent upon the beeps to know when to cross a street, instead of using real skills to cross the street, the potential for dependent behavior and dangerous outcomes is considerably high. Also, it has been my experience--sometimes almost scary experience--that the audible portion of the signal is not always accurate; a "north-south beep," might in fact signal permission to walk crossing an east-west street, if that makes any sense. The upshot is that the beep you think means walk will sometimes mean don't walk, and so any reassurance provided by the extra information is not all that reassuring. Also, with the advent of left turn only cycles, a crosswalk may in fact give false information. I'm not sure that these devices are at a stage where we should be pushing whole-heartedly for them, but I also see their use in a limited capacity. From william.odonnell1 at yahoo.com Mon Mar 16 16:16:49 2009 From: william.odonnell1 at yahoo.com (William ODonnell) Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 09:16:49 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target In-Reply-To: <839F18076C66C345BD1C0A4ACA67A1F60315B460@dhsexcmsg12.intra.dhs.ca.gov> Message-ID: <341709.36520.qm@web30904.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Greetings, I would like to open By saying that Rod, your comments arre very well thought out; Steve, you are looking for a way over on the system and are looking for an excuse to undo an injustice that you felt done to you. Stop looking for handouts and free passes since you are disabled. The world does not work like this. --- On Mon, 3/16/09, Ford, Tim (CDPH-OLS) wrote: > From: Ford, Tim (CDPH-OLS) > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Date: Monday, March 16, 2009, 10:41 AM > Thank you Mr. Frye for your excellent and patient post that > in my mind hits the mark exactly. This is a list for > lawyers and other legal practitioners, not a list to require > legal professionals to explain/justify the American legal > system. > > Tim Ford > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Frye, Dan > Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 3:12 PM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > List Colleagues: > > I suggest we stop engaging this gentleman as though his > responses deserve a serious or thoughtful reply. Our good > faith efforts to treat his comments with respect are only > met with what is clearly a political commentary that he > wants to express. While he is entitled to have whatever view > of the world and civil rights that he wishes, I hardly think > that his view warrants exhaustive coverage on this list that > is designed to discuss legitimate matters of law, practice > as blind lawyers, and the like. Responding to him only gives > him repeated opportunities to articulate this hostile world > view. He would be better suited to share his perspective on > civil rights with a bunch of people who subscribe to his > feelings, in a political forum designed for such a purpose. > > Dan Frye > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Steve P. > Deeley > Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 4:52 PM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > I will guarantee most individuals in our society don't > agree with the way damages are calculated. You are a > lawyer, so that sort of argument from you is expected, > Especially telling others who don't agree with your > position or, the position of most lawyers,concerning the > calculation of damages in these civil rights cases. > Steve > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Rod Alcidonis" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > > Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 2:23 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > > If damages are not awarded as a remedy at law, the next > option would be to grant some equitable relief like an > injunction. No court will ask Target to shut down its > website until it make it accessible to the blind. This would > be considered economic waste and against the public interest > if millions of people are forced to stop shopping on line. > > In the law's eyes, what the plaintiffs really want is > for their civil rights not to be violated. If one accept to > go ahead and violate them, the least that the law can afford > to those plaintiffs is money. The court knows that money is > not primarily what the plaintiffs are seeking, but there > must be a way for the defendant to answer to society for its > wrong doing. Here, it was by making the defendant compensate > the plaintiffs for the harm that it caused, I.E, by making > the defendant pay for violating the plaintiffs' civil > rights. Keep saying the following outloud you will get it: > "the damages was for the violation of the > plaintiffs' civil rights, not for any physical pain or > frustration in not using the Target website." > > For further edification of your understanding: Once the > court can calculate a dollar amount (hence the amount of the > damages award), equitable relief is not necessary and such > prayers will not be entertained in a court of equity. > Here, the court was able to come up with a dollar amount > for the violation of the plaintiffs' civil rights. > > Steve, unless you accept to place your emotions aside and > exercise a little willingness to learn, even for one day, > your reactions will continue to come across as being very > uninformed. I don't think you want that. That's why > some of us are trying to help you here while most have > resolved to ignoring your comments. If you continue to > persist along the same line in light of the effort > that's been made to help you out, I will have to > conclude in a very respectable way that you are just an > ignorant man. I am sorry. > > Take care. > > Rod Alcidonis > Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009. > Roger Williams University School of Law > 10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 > Bristol, RI 02809 > Cell: 718-704-4651 > Home: 401-824-8685 > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Steve P. Deeley" > > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > > Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 12:41 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > > I understand that, however, I just do not agree with the > entire concept of awarding damages in this sort of case. > Steve > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Rod Alcidonis" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > > Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 9:27 AM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > > > Steve: > > The effort here was to try to help your understanding and > educate your > logic, not to justify the existence of the legal system. I > am afraid that > you are still not willing to accept that "damage" > as used in the law is a > term of art. Meaning, It has a specific legal definition > different from > normal use. It is different when you say that "my > bicycle was damaged, for > example. It is a legal recognition that certain harms > should be compensated. > In this case, the plaintiffs are being paid not for the > fact that they were > physically damage in the normal use of the term, but for > violations of their > civil rights. See Denis' e-mail for what the harm was. > > In the bicycle example, if someone were to break your > bicycle, you can > receive "damages" as the cost of repair, or > replacement of the bicycle. By > the way, you are also entitled to enforce your civil rights > if you so choose > and receive damages. > > Not every violations entitle someone to such remedy. When a > person cannot > get damages under the law, that person has the option of > seeking equitable > relief in the form of an injunction or restraining order > against the > defendant. In this case damages was available as a remedy > so the plaintiffs > are getting money. They are getting paid because their > civil rights were > violated. I hope this further helps inform your comments. > > Take care. > > Rod Alcidonis > Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009. > Roger Williams University School of Law > 10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 > Bristol, RI 02809 > Cell: 718-704-4651 > Home: 401-824-8685 > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Steve P. Deeley" > > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > > Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 9:22 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > > That is a lawyer talking who makes his living in rediculous > situations like > this one. Again, you show me how an individual was damaged > and out > $4,000.00. > Steve > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Scott C. LaBarre" > > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > > Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 5:38 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > > Violation of civil rights has long been recognized as a > form of compensible > legal damage as well it should be. > Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. > > LaBarre Law Offices P.C. > 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 > Denver, Colorado 80222 > 303 504-5979 (voice) > 303 757-3640 (fax) > slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) > www.labarrelaw.com (website) > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain > confidential and privileged > information. If you are not the designated recipient, you > may not read, > copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received > this message in > error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or > slabarre at labarrelaw.com, > and destroy and delete it from your system. This message > and any attachments > are covered by the Electronic > Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Steve P. Deeley" > > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > > Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 2:31 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > > > This is ridiculous! How were these people damaged? > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Mehgan Sidhu" > > > To: > > Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 3:20 PM > > Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > > > > >> To answer the recent questions posted about the > Target case, the final > >> settlement hearing took place on March 9th. I > understand from our > >> counsel in California, Larry Paradis of DRA and > Josh Konecky, that there > >> were no objectors and the Judge was pleased with > the resolution of the > >> case. The settlement is not fully > "final" until the time for any > >> appeals has run - which is about 30 days. Given > there were no objectors, > >> it is highly unlikely that any appeals will be > filed. The judge has not > >> yet made a ruling on attorneys fees, but that will > not hold up > >> enforcement of the settlement. > >> > >> > >> > >> As for disbursements, assuming there are no > appeals, the claims > >> administer has 45 days from the final approval > date to disburse funds to > >> claimants. I do not know the final tally of > approved claimants, though I > >> think there were several hundred. I will pass > that information along > >> when I have it. > >> > >> > >> > >> We will now be working on enforcing the settlement > commitments that > >> Target made with respect to the accessibility of > the website. > >> > >> > >> Mehgan Sidhu > >> Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP > >> 120 East Baltimore Street, Suite 1700 > >> Baltimore, Maryland 21202 > >> 410-962-1030 x1324 > >> 410-385-0869 (fax) > >> ms at browngold.com > >> www.browngold.com > >> > >> Confidentiality Notice > >> > >> This e-mail may contain confidential information > that may also be legally > >> privileged and that is intended only for the use > of the addressee(s) > >> named above. If you are not the intended > recipient or an authorized > >> agent of the recipient, please be advised that any > dissemination or > >> copying of this e-mail, or taking of any action in > reliance on the > >> information contained herein, is strictly > prohibited. If you have > >> received this e-mail in error, please notify me > immediately by use of the > >> reply button, and then delete the e-mail from your > system. Thank you! > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> blindlaw mailing list > >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get > your account info for > >> blindlaw: > >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com > > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > > Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - > Release Date: 03/13/09 > > 05:59:00 > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > blindlaw mailing list > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for > > blindlaw: > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/slabarre%40labarrelaw.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release > Date: 03/13/09 > 05:59:00 > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/2001 - Release > Date: 03/14/09 > 06:54:00 > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/2001 - Release > Date: 03/14/09 > 06:54:00 > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dfrye%40nfb.org > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tim.ford%40cdph.ca.gov > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/william.odonnell1%40yahoo.com From william.odonnell1 at yahoo.com Mon Mar 16 16:32:16 2009 From: william.odonnell1 at yahoo.com (William ODonnell) Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 09:32:16 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [blindlaw] LSAC Reader Settlement Message-ID: <217836.63968.qm@web30907.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Another viable solution to this problem is installing webvisum on the lateist version of the firefox browser. Webvisum is an add-on that is found at: www.webvisum.com. Hope this helps. --- On Mon, 3/16/09, Rod Alcidonis wrote: > From: Rod Alcidonis > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAC Reader Settlement > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Date: Monday, March 16, 2009, 6:19 AM > I have encountered a different form of captia, where the > site would say > something like: "what's 4 plus 4? Type in the > result in the box below." > Others would even ask you something like: "how many > months are in a year?" I > found these to be much more effective than the other > alternatives. > > Rod Alcidonis > Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009. > Roger Williams University School of Law > 10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 > Bristol, RI 02809 > Cell: 718-704-4651 > Home: 401-824-8685 > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John " > To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" > > Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 5:50 AM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAC Reader Settlement > > > > Everett, > > I have found that the Webvisum plug in almost never > works. Apparently > > there > > is a form of captia that it is not compatible with and > that is the form > > that > > seems to be universally used on the internet. > > Take care, > > John > > > > John A. Ramsey Jr., Esq. > > > > Gainesville, FL 32609 > > > > Phone: (352) 505-6642 > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > > Behalf Of E.J. Zufelt > > Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 5:18 AM > > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAC Reader Settlement > > > > > > Good morning, > > > > Have you tried to use the Firefox Webvisum plugin for > solving the bank > > CAPTCHA? > > > > Everett > > > > > > On 16-Mar-09, at 5:12 AM, John wrote: > > > >> Chuck, > >> And the garbled audio is exactly what defeats the > purpose of the so > >> called > >> alternative. Have many of you had any real success > using the audio > >> alternatives. I know I certainly haven't and > that is one of the big > >> things I > >> would like to see addressed is some way to get > screen readers to > >> read those > >> captias. > >> John > >> > >> John A. Ramsey Jr., Esq. > >> > >> Gainesville, FL 32609 > >> > >> Phone: (352) 505-6642 > >> > >> > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:blindlaw- > >> bounces at nfbnet.org] On > >> Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net > >> Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 3:21 AM > >> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAC Reader Settlement > >> > >> > >> many corporate sites that use a captcha or random > code that you are > >> referring to can provide an audio alternative. > This is done on many > >> major > >> web sites such as Pay Pal EBay and MSN. this would > address the > >> problem as > >> you can hear the code that appears on the screen. > The problem with > >> some of > >> the audio alternatives is that the voices are > intentionally garbled > >> and > >> spoken in different pitches and dialects which > causes confusion. > >> This is > >> done to try to simulate the appearance of what is > on the screen as > >> it is > >> apparently somewhat garbled in appearance. > >> Chuck > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "Steve P. Deeley" > > >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > > >> Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 1:56 PM > >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAC Reader Settlement > >> > >> > >>> Rod, How would you suggest that I approach a > bank who has a Web site > >>> that is not quite accessible. They want the > user to type in a random > >>> code. Of > >> > >>> course, the Window-eyes will not read the > code. I've talked with > >>> them > >>> twice and they can't seem to understand > how to fix the problem. I'm > >>> planning to have a AT professional speak with > them in the near > >>> future. I > >>> really don't want to seem adversarial when > I speak with them again. > >>> > >>> Steve > >>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>> From: "Rod Alcidonis" > > >>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > > >>> Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 10:02 AM > >>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAC Reader Settlement > >>> > >>> > >>>> I only hope that for that reason, Angie, > that any settlement with > >>>> them > >>>> this > >>>> time has more teeth. Otherwise, we will be > in the same place 5-10 > >>>> years > >>>> down > >>>> the road. The LSAC has demonstrated times > and again that they are > >>>> not an > >>>> entity willing to abide by legal > obligations. Not only in not > >>>> publishing > >>>> their reader policy to test takers but in > granting other > >>>> accommodations -- > >>>> where there is no standard to guide the > process. I had > >>>> accommodations > >>>> that > >>>> were granted to me because of blindness > and denied to others also > >>>> because > >> > >>>> of > >>>> blindness. > >>>> > >>>> Rod Alcidonis > >>>> Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009. > >>>> Roger Williams University School of Law > >>>> 10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 > >>>> Bristol, RI 02809 > >>>> Cell: 718-704-4651 > >>>> Home: 401-824-8685 > >>>> > >>>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>>> From: "Angie Matney" > > >>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing > List" > >>>> Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 6:41 AM > >>>> Subject: [blindlaw] LSAC Reader Settlement > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>> Did LSAC ever put anything up on their > site concerning their reader > >>>>> policy? If memory serves, you had to > request that this info be sent > >>>>> to you when I was applying. > >>>>> > >>>>> Angie > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > _______________________________________________ > >>>>> blindlaw mailing list > >>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list > options or get your account info > >>>>> for > >>>>> blindlaw: > >>>>> > >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40ho > >> tmail > >> . > >> com > >>>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > _______________________________________________ > >>>> blindlaw mailing list > >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options > or get your account info > >>>> for > >>>> blindlaw: > >>>> > >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deele > >> y%40in > >> sightbb.com > >>> > >>> > >>> > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>> - > >>> ---------- > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> No virus found in this incoming message. > >>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > >>> Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: > 270.11.13/2001 - Release Date: > >>> 03/14/09 06:54:00 > >>> > >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ > >>> blindlaw mailing list > >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or > get your account info for > >>> blindlaw: > >>> > >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40s > >> bcglob > >> al.net > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> blindlaw mailing list > >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get > your account info for > >> blindlaw: > >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joramsey%40c > >> ox.net > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> blindlaw mailing list > >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get > your account info > >> for blindlaw: > >> > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/everett%40zufelt.c > > a > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > blindlaw mailing list > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for > > blindlaw: > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joramsey%40cox.net > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > blindlaw mailing list > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for > > blindlaw: > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/william.odonnell1%40yahoo.com From stevep.deeley at insightbb.com Mon Mar 16 16:40:20 2009 From: stevep.deeley at insightbb.com (Steve P. Deeley) Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 12:40:20 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target In-Reply-To: <341709.36520.qm@web30904.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <341709.36520.qm@web30904.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <410EC5062B7C49259B7A74FA81F91829@StevePC> What are you talking about dude. We were having an academic discussion and you come in with this garbage! You are apparently unable to discuss the calculations of damages and whether you agree with such damages in a case like this one. That was my point in this discussion. Keep the personal garbage comments to yourself. I've never taken a hand-out from anyone. I've always been employed during the past 35 years. Can you say the same? I do not believe there have ever been any injustices come my way. We all are responsible for our own breaks in life. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "William ODonnell" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 12:16 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target Greetings, I would like to open By saying that Rod, your comments arre very well thought out; Steve, you are looking for a way over on the system and are looking for an excuse to undo an injustice that you felt done to you. Stop looking for handouts and free passes since you are disabled. The world does not work like this. --- On Mon, 3/16/09, Ford, Tim (CDPH-OLS) wrote: > From: Ford, Tim (CDPH-OLS) > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Date: Monday, March 16, 2009, 10:41 AM > Thank you Mr. Frye for your excellent and patient post that > in my mind hits the mark exactly. This is a list for > lawyers and other legal practitioners, not a list to require > legal professionals to explain/justify the American legal > system. > > Tim Ford > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Frye, Dan > Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 3:12 PM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > List Colleagues: > > I suggest we stop engaging this gentleman as though his > responses deserve a serious or thoughtful reply. Our good > faith efforts to treat his comments with respect are only > met with what is clearly a political commentary that he > wants to express. While he is entitled to have whatever view > of the world and civil rights that he wishes, I hardly think > that his view warrants exhaustive coverage on this list that > is designed to discuss legitimate matters of law, practice > as blind lawyers, and the like. Responding to him only gives > him repeated opportunities to articulate this hostile world > view. He would be better suited to share his perspective on > civil rights with a bunch of people who subscribe to his > feelings, in a political forum designed for such a purpose. > > Dan Frye > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Steve P. > Deeley > Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 4:52 PM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > I will guarantee most individuals in our society don't > agree with the way damages are calculated. You are a > lawyer, so that sort of argument from you is expected, > Especially telling others who don't agree with your > position or, the position of most lawyers,concerning the > calculation of damages in these civil rights cases. > Steve > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Rod Alcidonis" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > > Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 2:23 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > > If damages are not awarded as a remedy at law, the next > option would be to grant some equitable relief like an > injunction. No court will ask Target to shut down its > website until it make it accessible to the blind. This would > be considered economic waste and against the public interest > if millions of people are forced to stop shopping on line. > > In the law's eyes, what the plaintiffs really want is > for their civil rights not to be violated. If one accept to > go ahead and violate them, the least that the law can afford > to those plaintiffs is money. The court knows that money is > not primarily what the plaintiffs are seeking, but there > must be a way for the defendant to answer to society for its > wrong doing. Here, it was by making the defendant compensate > the plaintiffs for the harm that it caused, I.E, by making > the defendant pay for violating the plaintiffs' civil > rights. Keep saying the following outloud you will get it: > "the damages was for the violation of the > plaintiffs' civil rights, not for any physical pain or > frustration in not using the Target website." > > For further edification of your understanding: Once the > court can calculate a dollar amount (hence the amount of the > damages award), equitable relief is not necessary and such > prayers will not be entertained in a court of equity. > Here, the court was able to come up with a dollar amount > for the violation of the plaintiffs' civil rights. > > Steve, unless you accept to place your emotions aside and > exercise a little willingness to learn, even for one day, > your reactions will continue to come across as being very > uninformed. I don't think you want that. That's why > some of us are trying to help you here while most have > resolved to ignoring your comments. If you continue to > persist along the same line in light of the effort > that's been made to help you out, I will have to > conclude in a very respectable way that you are just an > ignorant man. I am sorry. > > Take care. > > Rod Alcidonis > Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009. > Roger Williams University School of Law > 10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 > Bristol, RI 02809 > Cell: 718-704-4651 > Home: 401-824-8685 > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Steve P. Deeley" > > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > > Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 12:41 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > > I understand that, however, I just do not agree with the > entire concept of awarding damages in this sort of case. > Steve > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Rod Alcidonis" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > > Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 9:27 AM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > > > Steve: > > The effort here was to try to help your understanding and > educate your > logic, not to justify the existence of the legal system. I > am afraid that > you are still not willing to accept that "damage" > as used in the law is a > term of art. Meaning, It has a specific legal definition > different from > normal use. It is different when you say that "my > bicycle was damaged, for > example. It is a legal recognition that certain harms > should be compensated. > In this case, the plaintiffs are being paid not for the > fact that they were > physically damage in the normal use of the term, but for > violations of their > civil rights. See Denis' e-mail for what the harm was. > > In the bicycle example, if someone were to break your > bicycle, you can > receive "damages" as the cost of repair, or > replacement of the bicycle. By > the way, you are also entitled to enforce your civil rights > if you so choose > and receive damages. > > Not every violations entitle someone to such remedy. When a > person cannot > get damages under the law, that person has the option of > seeking equitable > relief in the form of an injunction or restraining order > against the > defendant. In this case damages was available as a remedy > so the plaintiffs > are getting money. They are getting paid because their > civil rights were > violated. I hope this further helps inform your comments. > > Take care. > > Rod Alcidonis > Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009. > Roger Williams University School of Law > 10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 > Bristol, RI 02809 > Cell: 718-704-4651 > Home: 401-824-8685 > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Steve P. Deeley" > > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > > Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 9:22 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > > That is a lawyer talking who makes his living in rediculous > situations like > this one. Again, you show me how an individual was damaged > and out > $4,000.00. > Steve > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Scott C. LaBarre" > > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > > Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 5:38 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > > Violation of civil rights has long been recognized as a > form of compensible > legal damage as well it should be. > Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. > > LaBarre Law Offices P.C. > 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 > Denver, Colorado 80222 > 303 504-5979 (voice) > 303 757-3640 (fax) > slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) > www.labarrelaw.com (website) > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain > confidential and privileged > information. If you are not the designated recipient, you > may not read, > copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received > this message in > error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or > slabarre at labarrelaw.com, > and destroy and delete it from your system. This message > and any attachments > are covered by the Electronic > Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Steve P. Deeley" > > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > > Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 2:31 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > > > This is ridiculous! How were these people damaged? > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Mehgan Sidhu" > > > To: > > Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 3:20 PM > > Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > > > > >> To answer the recent questions posted about the > Target case, the final > >> settlement hearing took place on March 9th. I > understand from our > >> counsel in California, Larry Paradis of DRA and > Josh Konecky, that there > >> were no objectors and the Judge was pleased with > the resolution of the > >> case. The settlement is not fully > "final" until the time for any > >> appeals has run - which is about 30 days. Given > there were no objectors, > >> it is highly unlikely that any appeals will be > filed. The judge has not > >> yet made a ruling on attorneys fees, but that will > not hold up > >> enforcement of the settlement. > >> > >> > >> > >> As for disbursements, assuming there are no > appeals, the claims > >> administer has 45 days from the final approval > date to disburse funds to > >> claimants. I do not know the final tally of > approved claimants, though I > >> think there were several hundred. I will pass > that information along > >> when I have it. > >> > >> > >> > >> We will now be working on enforcing the settlement > commitments that > >> Target made with respect to the accessibility of > the website. > >> > >> > >> Mehgan Sidhu > >> Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP > >> 120 East Baltimore Street, Suite 1700 > >> Baltimore, Maryland 21202 > >> 410-962-1030 x1324 > >> 410-385-0869 (fax) > >> ms at browngold.com > >> www.browngold.com > >> > >> Confidentiality Notice > >> > >> This e-mail may contain confidential information > that may also be legally > >> privileged and that is intended only for the use > of the addressee(s) > >> named above. If you are not the intended > recipient or an authorized > >> agent of the recipient, please be advised that any > dissemination or > >> copying of this e-mail, or taking of any action in > reliance on the > >> information contained herein, is strictly > prohibited. If you have > >> received this e-mail in error, please notify me > immediately by use of the > >> reply button, and then delete the e-mail from your > system. Thank you! > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> blindlaw mailing list > >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get > your account info for > >> blindlaw: > >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com > > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > > Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - > Release Date: 03/13/09 > > 05:59:00 > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > blindlaw mailing list > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for > > blindlaw: > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/slabarre%40labarrelaw.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release > Date: 03/13/09 > 05:59:00 > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/2001 - Release > Date: 03/14/09 > 06:54:00 > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/2001 - Release > Date: 03/14/09 > 06:54:00 > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dfrye%40nfb.org > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tim.ford%40cdph.ca.gov > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/william.odonnell1%40yahoo.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.15/2004 - Release Date: 03/16/09 07:04:00 From stevep.deeley at insightbb.com Mon Mar 16 16:41:43 2009 From: stevep.deeley at insightbb.com (Steve P. Deeley) Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 12:41:43 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target In-Reply-To: <753F548D527149CFBBF781FAEB8C2CE1@labarre> References: <7DF12D30A7294ADEAA75754CE0751C02@labarre> <753F548D527149CFBBF781FAEB8C2CE1@labarre> Message-ID: <35F783C1AEFB4675ACDC37277A2DD1FA@StevePC> Agreed. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott C. LaBarre" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 10:54 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target Oh, I wish I had a simple answer to that wuestion. It is always astonishing to me why companies/organizations would rather fight in court than fix whatever problem caused the issue. I have seen this occur hundreds of times in my legal career. With respect to blindness, some times it comes down to a fundamental and great misunderstanding of the capacities of the blind/disabled. Any way, I could go on and on but have not the time to do so currently. Step by step and by a variety of different techniques, we will keep advancing the ball! Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. LaBarre Law Offices P.C. 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 Denver, Colorado 80222 303 504-5979 (voice) 303 757-3640 (fax) slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) www.labarrelaw.com (website) CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Pepper" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 12:41 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target Scott: What I do not get is why these companies are willing to go to court and spend all this money and put themselves into so much risk, when the solutions to these problems are actually just a matter of rolling up the sleeves and rebuilding the website. For instance I just took a look at the Target website. Right now as I type this it has 940 errors in its HTML code and 109 warnings according to the World Wide Web Consortium which sets the international standards the codes used to write websites. This is appalling! Their CSS errors are 38 errors, and 335 warnings. This means that they are not even up to the international standards for writing code properly. There is no excuse for this! The LSAT is using the wrong program to make their PDF files. They are using a program that fragments the content into such tiny pieces that the text cannot be put back together again. It is all gibberish. But this can be fixed! What I do not get is why this is such a problem for people to make their websites accessible? Why are they willing to fight in court, spend millions of dollars in settlement when the solutions are right in front of them! I am just amazed at the waste! James Pepper On Sat, Mar 14, 2009 at 9:19 PM, Scott C. LaBarre wrote: > The standards used are those of WCAG and Sec. 508. I did not work > directly > on Target and cannot tell you exactly the access barriers. I can tell you > that with respect to filing applications to law schools through LSAC on > their website, it is impossible to fill those applications out > independently > using screen reading softaware. Let me also assure list members that we > don't simply jump on a website, encounter difficulty, and then sue them > the > next day. A lawsuit is the last resort when the entity is not willing to > deal with us otherwise. Just because we are a small minority does not > mean > that our right to the mainstream of society must always be subservient to > the majority's unwillingness to consider us due to our small numbers. > Unless someone has a new point to be made on this topic, I respectfully > suggest that we move onto different discussions. Let's also agree to > disagree on certain points. > Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. > > LaBarre Law Offices P.C. > 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 > Denver, Colorado 80222 > 303 504-5979 (voice) > 303 757-3640 (fax) > slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) > www.labarrelaw.com (website) > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and > privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may > not > read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this > message > in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or > slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. This > message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic > Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Orozco" > To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" > Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 8:52 AM > > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > > What troubles me is that my question of accessibility standards has not > been > answered on the other case against the LSAC. The same question is > applicable here. What standard was used to conclude that the web site was > not accessible? I do not claim to be a genius at manipulating technology > to > serve my needs, but I did not have to try hard at all to make Target give > me > what I needed between 2005 and 2008. So is the problem the web site > layout, > or is it our own technology training? Rather than chase every entity with > features a few people deem inaccessible, would it not be prudent to take > our > standards, whatever those may be, to the classroom, to the software > developers, the relevant associations raising the performance standards of > its students and members? This method of engineering change gives us the > perception of a watchdog group. If this is what we have become, and given > the small margin of the population we represent, I would rather trigger > change at the source rather than at the output. > > Joe Orozco > > "A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the > crowd."--Max Lucado > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley > Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 9:24 AM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > That should not result in you receiving damages of almost $4,000.00. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 4:35 AM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > > As an individual I am insulted and damaged each time I am > discriminated by a > business not accommodating my ability to access their products > and services, > especially on the Internet when I have made sure that I have > accommodated > myself with the most up-to-date software to mitigate my needs as a blind > person. I should not have to rely on sighted assistance to use > a product or > do without because the greedy corporations has chosen the most expedient > road to sell their products. I am also insulted that you are > posting this > question. I have in my life time been sold out by too many > blind people that > thought they knew what I needed and I hope more companies will > have to pay > damages in these types of cases. Perhaps they will then learn > how to meet > the needs of all their customers. Fortunately here in California we have > some laws with some teeth in them that are > enforceable--although these teeth > still need a good sharpening. > Chuck > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. Deeley" < > stevep.deeley at insightbb.com> > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 6:22 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > > That is a lawyer talking who makes his living in rediculous > situations like > this one. Again, you show me how an individual was damaged and out > $4,000.00. > Steve > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott C. LaBarre" < > slabarre at labarrelaw.com> > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 5:38 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > > Violation of civil rights has long been recognized as a form of > compensible > legal damage as well it should be. > Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. > > LaBarre Law Offices P.C. > 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 > Denver, Colorado 80222 > 303 504-5979 (voice) > 303 757-3640 (fax) > slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) > www.labarrelaw.com (website) > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential > and privileged > information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read, > copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in > error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or > slabarre at labarrelaw.com, > and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and > any attachments > are covered by the Electronic > Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. Deeley" < > stevep.deeley at insightbb.com> > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 2:31 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target > > > This is ridiculous! How were these people damaged? >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mehgan Sidhu" >> To: >> Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 3:20 PM >> Subject: [blindlaw] nfb v. target >> >> >> To answer the recent questions posted about the Target case, >>> >> the final > >> settlement hearing took place on March 9th. I understand from our >>> counsel in California, Larry Paradis of DRA and Josh >>> >> Konecky, that there > >> were no objectors and the Judge was pleased with the >>> >> resolution of the > >> case. The settlement is not fully "final" until the time for any >>> appeals has run - which is about 30 days. Given there were >>> >> no objectors, > >> it is highly unlikely that any appeals will be filed. The >>> >> judge has not > >> yet made a ruling on attorneys fees, but that will not hold up >>> enforcement of the settlement. >>> >>> >>> >>> As for disbursements, assuming there are no appeals, the claims >>> administer has 45 days from the final approval date to >>> >> disburse funds to > >> claimants. I do not know the final tally of approved >>> >> claimants, though I > >> think there were several hundred. I will pass that information along >>> when I have it. >>> >>> >>> >>> We will now be working on enforcing the settlement commitments that >>> Target made with respect to the accessibility of the website. >>> >>> >>> Mehgan Sidhu >>> Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP >>> 120 East Baltimore Street, Suite 1700 >>> Baltimore, Maryland 21202 >>> 410-962-1030 x1324 >>> 410-385-0869 (fax) >>> ms at browngold.com >>> www.browngold.com >>> >>> Confidentiality Notice >>> >>> This e-mail may contain confidential information that may >>> >> also be legally > >> privileged and that is intended only for the use of the addressee(s) >>> named above. If you are not the intended recipient or an authorized >>> agent of the recipient, please be advised that any dissemination or >>> copying of this e-mail, or taking of any action in reliance on the >>> information contained herein, is strictly prohibited. If you have >>> received this e-mail in error, please notify me immediately >>> >> by use of the > >> reply button, and then delete the e-mail from your system. >>> >> Thank you! > >> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep > .deeley%40insightbb.com > >> >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------------- > >> >> >> >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release >> > Date: 03/13/09 > >> 05:59:00 >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/slabar > re%40labarrelaw.com > >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep > .deeley%40insightbb.com > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------------- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release > Date: 03/13/09 > 05:59:00 > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugm > an%40sbcglobal.net > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep > .deeley%40insightbb.com > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------------- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release > Date: 03/13/09 > 05:59:00 > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jsoroz > co%40gmail.com > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of > virus signature database 3936 (20090313) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature > database 3936 (20090313) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/slabarre%40labarrelaw.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b75205%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/slabarre%40labarrelaw.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.15/2004 - Release Date: 03/16/09 07:04:00 From Tim.Ford at cdph.ca.gov Mon Mar 16 16:41:58 2009 From: Tim.Ford at cdph.ca.gov (Ford, Tim (CDPH-OLS)) Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 09:41:58 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] comments needed regarding policy for audible pedestrian signals In-Reply-To: <2A760F9B-BD1E-42B4-9E1F-C93641E869CE@sbcglobal.net> References: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6B26D668@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local><52EF5BE098F045CB9C686CB25AFFBB5B@spike> <2A760F9B-BD1E-42B4-9E1F-C93641E869CE@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <839F18076C66C345BD1C0A4ACA67A1F60315B466@dhsexcmsg12.intra.dhs.ca.gov> I have no comment on this string of notes, I just got tired of listening to the subject line with all the words run together, so I have taken a minute to correct the subject line. Tim Ford -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Mark BurningHawk Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 9:10 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] comments neededregarding policyforaudiblepedestriansignals I don't know if my comments below are germane, but here's what I have experienced: I have never encountered audible crosswalk signals until I came to California, about five years ago. For the previous thirty something years, I crossed streets without such. Because of my hearing loss, I am not averse to the added information such signals give, but I feel they may hinder more than they harm . If a blind person becomes dependent upon the beeps to know when to cross a street, instead of using real skills to cross the street, the potential for dependent behavior and dangerous outcomes is considerably high. Also, it has been my experience--sometimes almost scary experience--that the audible portion of the signal is not always accurate; a "north-south beep," might in fact signal permission to walk crossing an east-west street, if that makes any sense. The upshot is that the beep you think means walk will sometimes mean don't walk, and so any reassurance provided by the extra information is not all that reassuring. Also, with the advent of left turn only cycles, a crosswalk may in fact give false information. I'm not sure that these devices are at a stage where we should be pushing whole-heartedly for them, but I also see their use in a limited capacity. _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tim.ford%40cdp h.ca.gov From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Mon Mar 16 16:45:10 2009 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 09:45:10 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] LSAC Reader Settlement In-Reply-To: <7739ABEF6A0C423E9B86E30512012A5A@noneeb869fea9a> References: <7739ABEF6A0C423E9B86E30512012A5A@noneeb869fea9a> Message-ID: <6EE265B9FB2349B2A008FA27CBD57E7E@spike> I have beaten with the odds with the garbled audio with several attempts on the EBAY site but some of the voices that they used sounded like people with foreign dialects or speech impediments. I have also advised companies that this is not an acceptable option. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "John " To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 1:12 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAC Reader Settlement > Chuck, > And the garbled audio is exactly what defeats the purpose of the so called > alternative. Have many of you had any real success using the audio > alternatives. I know I certainly haven't and that is one of the big things > I > would like to see addressed is some way to get screen readers to read > those > captias. > John > > John A. Ramsey Jr., Esq. > > Gainesville, FL 32609 > > Phone: (352) 505-6642 > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net > Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 3:21 AM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAC Reader Settlement > > > many corporate sites that use a captcha or random code that you are > referring to can provide an audio alternative. This is done on many major > web sites such as Pay Pal EBay and MSN. this would address the problem as > you can hear the code that appears on the screen. The problem with some of > the audio alternatives is that the voices are intentionally garbled and > spoken in different pitches and dialects which causes confusion. This is > done to try to simulate the appearance of what is on the screen as it is > apparently somewhat garbled in appearance. > Chuck > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Steve P. Deeley" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 1:56 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAC Reader Settlement > > >> Rod, How would you suggest that I approach a bank who has a Web site >> that >> is not quite accessible. They want the user to type in a random code. >> Of > >> course, the Window-eyes will not read the code. I've talked with them >> twice and they can't seem to understand how to fix the problem. I'm >> planning to have a AT professional speak with them in the near future. I >> really don't want to seem adversarial when I speak with them again. >> >> Steve >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Rod Alcidonis" >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 10:02 AM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAC Reader Settlement >> >> >>>I only hope that for that reason, Angie, that any settlement with them >>>this >>> time has more teeth. Otherwise, we will be in the same place 5-10 years >>> down >>> the road. The LSAC has demonstrated times and again that they are not an >>> entity willing to abide by legal obligations. Not only in not publishing >>> their reader policy to test takers but in granting other >>> accommodations -- >>> where there is no standard to guide the process. I had accommodations >>> that >>> were granted to me because of blindness and denied to others also >>> because > >>> of >>> blindness. >>> >>> Rod Alcidonis >>> Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009. >>> Roger Williams University School of Law >>> 10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 >>> Bristol, RI 02809 >>> Cell: 718-704-4651 >>> Home: 401-824-8685 >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Angie Matney" >>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>> Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 6:41 AM >>> Subject: [blindlaw] LSAC Reader Settlement >>> >>> >>>> Did LSAC ever put anything up on their site concerning their reader >>>> policy? If memory serves, you had to request that this info be sent >>>> to you when I was applying. >>>> >>>> Angie >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail. > com >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in > sightbb.com >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> ---------- >> >> >> >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/2001 - Release Date: >> 03/14/09 >> 06:54:00 >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob > al.net > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joramsey%40cox.net > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net From joramsey at cox.net Mon Mar 16 19:53:24 2009 From: joramsey at cox.net (John ) Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 15:53:24 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] LSAC Reader Settlement In-Reply-To: <20090316114442.EQEO13984.eastrmmtai104.cox.net@eastrmimpi03.cox.net> Message-ID: Hi Angie, I haven't had any luck with phones either and I usually wear them on the computer regardless of what I am doing. I have not encountered the rolling mouse dilemma. Take care, John John A. Ramsey Jr., Esq. Gainesville, FL 32609 Phone: (352) 505-6642 -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Angie Matney Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 7:26 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAC Reader Settlement Hi John, Have you tried listening to those audio captchas with headphones? I usually listen to my computer with headphones anyway, but I think it makes a real difference in decoding those annoying audio captchas. The most inaccessible forms of verification I have encountered involve several pictures, and a statement like, "Roll your mouse over all the images that are images of cats." Angie On Mon, 16 Mar 2009 04:12:25 -0400, John wrote: >Chuck, >And the garbled audio is exactly what defeats the purpose of the so >called alternative. Have many of you had any real success using the >audio alternatives. I know I certainly haven't and that is one of the >big things I would like to see addressed is some way to get screen >readers to read those captias. John >John A. Ramsey Jr., Esq. >Gainesville, FL 32609 >Phone: (352) 505-6642 >-----Original Message----- >From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] >On Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net >Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 3:21 AM >To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAC Reader Settlement >many corporate sites that use a captcha or random code that you are >referring to can provide an audio alternative. This is done on many major >web sites such as Pay Pal EBay and MSN. this would address the problem as >you can hear the code that appears on the screen. The problem with some of >the audio alternatives is that the voices are intentionally garbled and >spoken in different pitches and dialects which causes confusion. This is >done to try to simulate the appearance of what is on the screen as it is >apparently somewhat garbled in appearance. >Chuck >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Steve P. Deeley" >To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 1:56 PM >Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAC Reader Settlement >> Rod, How would you suggest that I approach a bank who has a Web site >> that >> is not quite accessible. They want the user to type in a random code. Of >> course, the Window-eyes will not read the code. I've talked with them >> twice and they can't seem to understand how to fix the problem. I'm >> planning to have a AT professional speak with them in the near future. I >> really don't want to seem adversarial when I speak with them again. >> >> Steve >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Rod Alcidonis" >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 10:02 AM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAC Reader Settlement >> >> >>>I only hope that for that reason, Angie, that any settlement with them >>>this >>> time has more teeth. Otherwise, we will be in the same place 5-10 years >>> down >>> the road. The LSAC has demonstrated times and again that they are not an >>> entity willing to abide by legal obligations. Not only in not publishing >>> their reader policy to test takers but in granting other >>> accommodations -- >>> where there is no standard to guide the process. I had accommodations >>> that >>> were granted to me because of blindness and denied to others also because >>> of >>> blindness. >>> >>> Rod Alcidonis >>> Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009. >>> Roger Williams University School of Law >>> 10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 >>> Bristol, RI 02809 >>> Cell: 718-704-4651 >>> Home: 401-824-8685 >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Angie Matney" >>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >>> Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 6:41 AM >>> Subject: [blindlaw] LSAC Reader Settlement >>> >>> >>>> Did LSAC ever put anything up on their site concerning their reader >>>> policy? If memory serves, you had to request that this info be sent >>>> to you when I was applying. >>>> >>>> Angie >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail . >com >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40i n >sightbb.com >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> ---------- >> >> >> >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/2001 - Release Date: >> 03/14/09 >> 06:54:00 >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglo b >al.net >_______________________________________________ >blindlaw mailing list >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >blindlaw: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joramsey%40cox.ne t >_______________________________________________ >blindlaw mailing list >blindlaw at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/angie%40mpmail.ne t _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joramsey%40cox.net From timandvickie at hotmail.com Mon Mar 16 20:02:17 2009 From: timandvickie at hotmail.com (Tim Shaw) Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 20:02:17 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] LSAC Reader Settlement In-Reply-To: <6EE265B9FB2349B2A008FA27CBD57E7E@spike> References: <7739ABEF6A0C423E9B86E30512012A5A@noneeb869fea9a> <6EE265B9FB2349B2A008FA27CBD57E7E@spike> Message-ID: ive never ahd problems with the audio, but ive never encoutnered ones taht sounded like they were read by people with foriegn dialects. If they sound that way, its probably cuz they were recorded by someone sitting in India making a dollar an hour > From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net > To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org > Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 09:45:10 -0700 > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAC Reader Settlement > > I have beaten with the odds with the garbled audio with several attempts on > the EBAY site but some of the voices that they used sounded like people with > foreign dialects or speech impediments. I have also advised companies that > this is not an acceptable option. > Chuck > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John " > To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" > Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 1:12 AM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAC Reader Settlement > > > > Chuck, > > And the garbled audio is exactly what defeats the purpose of the so called > > alternative. Have many of you had any real success using the audio > > alternatives. I know I certainly haven't and that is one of the big things > > I > > would like to see addressed is some way to get screen readers to read > > those > > captias. > > John > > > > John A. Ramsey Jr., Esq. > > > > Gainesville, FL 32609 > > > > Phone: (352) 505-6642 > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > > Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net > > Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 3:21 AM > > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAC Reader Settlement > > > > > > many corporate sites that use a captcha or random code that you are > > referring to can provide an audio alternative. This is done on many major > > web sites such as Pay Pal EBay and MSN. this would address the problem as > > you can hear the code that appears on the screen. The problem with some of > > the audio alternatives is that the voices are intentionally garbled and > > spoken in different pitches and dialects which causes confusion. This is > > done to try to simulate the appearance of what is on the screen as it is > > apparently somewhat garbled in appearance. > > Chuck > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Steve P. Deeley" > > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > > Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 1:56 PM > > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAC Reader Settlement > > > > > >> Rod, How would you suggest that I approach a bank who has a Web site > >> that > >> is not quite accessible. They want the user to type in a random code. > >> Of > > > >> course, the Window-eyes will not read the code. I've talked with them > >> twice and they can't seem to understand how to fix the problem. I'm > >> planning to have a AT professional speak with them in the near future. I > >> really don't want to seem adversarial when I speak with them again. > >> > >> Steve > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "Rod Alcidonis" > >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > >> Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 10:02 AM > >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAC Reader Settlement > >> > >> > >>>I only hope that for that reason, Angie, that any settlement with them > >>>this > >>> time has more teeth. Otherwise, we will be in the same place 5-10 years > >>> down > >>> the road. The LSAC has demonstrated times and again that they are not an > >>> entity willing to abide by legal obligations. Not only in not publishing > >>> their reader policy to test takers but in granting other > >>> accommodations -- > >>> where there is no standard to guide the process. I had accommodations > >>> that > >>> were granted to me because of blindness and denied to others also > >>> because > > > >>> of > >>> blindness. > >>> > >>> Rod Alcidonis > >>> Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009. > >>> Roger Williams University School of Law > >>> 10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 > >>> Bristol, RI 02809 > >>> Cell: 718-704-4651 > >>> Home: 401-824-8685 > >>> > >>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>> From: "Angie Matney" > >>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > >>> Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 6:41 AM > >>> Subject: [blindlaw] LSAC Reader Settlement > >>> > >>> > >>>> Did LSAC ever put anything up on their site concerning their reader > >>>> policy? If memory serves, you had to request that this info be sent > >>>> to you when I was applying. > >>>> > >>>> Angie > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> blindlaw mailing list > >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > >>>> for > >>>> blindlaw: > >>>> > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail. > > com > >>>> > >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> blindlaw mailing list > >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>> blindlaw: > >>> > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in > > sightbb.com > >> > >> > >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> ---------- > >> > >> > >> > >> No virus found in this incoming message. > >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > >> Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/2001 - Release Date: > >> 03/14/09 > >> 06:54:00 > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> blindlaw mailing list > >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> blindlaw: > >> > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob > > al.net > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > blindlaw mailing list > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/joramsey%40cox.net > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > blindlaw mailing list > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/timandvickie%40hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ Express your personality in color! Preview and select themes for Hotmail®. http://www.windowslive-hotmail.com/LearnMore/personalize.aspx?ocid=TXT_MSGTX_WL_HM_express_032009#colortheme From ms at browngold.com Wed Mar 18 16:53:19 2009 From: ms at browngold.com (Mehgan Sidhu) Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 12:53:19 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] BGL Disability Rights Fellowship Message-ID: Dear All, I'm pleased to make the following announcement on behalf of Brown, Goldstein & Levy. I hope that many of you will apply. Please let me know if you have any questions. Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP, is proud to introduce a one-year disability rights fellowship. The Fellowship offers a recent law-school graduate or judicial clerk (0 to 3 years out) with a disability the opportunity to participate in all phases of disability rights litigation at our firm in Baltimore, Maryland. Brown, Goldstein & Levy is a 16-lawyer, Baltimore-based law firm devoted principally to litigation. The firm has developed a national reputation for its high-profile, high-impact disability rights cases. The one-year fellowship will begin in September 2009. The application deadline is April 15, 2009. Please visit our website for additional details about the fellowship and the firm and to download an application: www.browngold.com. Mehgan Sidhu Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP 120 East Baltimore Street, Suite 1700 Baltimore, Maryland 21202 410-962-1030 x1324 410-385-0869 (fax) ms at browngold.com www.browngold.com Confidentiality Notice This e-mail may contain confidential information that may also be legally privileged and that is intended only for the use of the addressee(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient or an authorized agent of the recipient, please be advised that any dissemination or copying of this e-mail, or taking of any action in reliance on the information contained herein, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify me immediately by use of the reply button, and then delete the e-mail from your system. Thank you! From JMcCarthy at nfb.org Wed Mar 18 20:11:05 2009 From: JMcCarthy at nfb.org (McCarthy, Jim) Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 16:11:05 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Law Symposium Message-ID: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6B26D6A8@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local> Lou Ann Blake, the coordinator of the upcoming Jacobus TenBroek Disability Law Symposium, asked me to post the following message. I would further editorialize that you should make all efforts to attend this event. As you will see, the agenda contains some of the foremost experts in disability law and policy. Kareem Dale, President Obama's Special Assistant for Disability Policy to Speak at the 2009 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium Don't miss this opportunity to voice your concerns to Kareem Dale, Special Assistant to the President for Disability Policy, at the 2009 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium on April 17th at the National Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute in Baltimore, Maryland. Mr. Dale will speak on the Obama administration's policies on disability issues for approximately thirty minutes followed by a forty-five minute question and answer session. In addition to Mr. Dale, the presenters for the 2009 symposium are: * Maura Healey, Assistant Attorney General and Chief, Office of Civil Rights, Commonwealth of Massachusetts; * Amy Robertson and Timothy Fox, Principals, Fox & Robertson, P.C.; * Gerard Quinn, Professor of Law, National University of Ireland, Galway; * Katherine Guernsey, International Lawyer and Adjunct Professor, American University School of International Service; * Samuel Bagenstos, Visiting Professor of Law, University of Michigan Law School; * Christine Griffin, Commissioner, United States Equal Employment Opportunity Commission; and * Peter Blanck, University Professor and Chairman, Burton Blatt Institute at Syracuse University. Ari Ne'eman, founding president of the Autistic Self-Advocacy Network, will give the luncheon keynote address. To view the full agenda, register online, or download the registration form to register by mail or fax, visit the symposium web page at http://www.nfb.org/nfb/Law_Symposium.asp. Hotel information may also be found on the symposium Web page. The registration fee is $150; students may register for $20. A limited number of scholarships to cover the registration fee will be available to individuals with demonstrated financial need. Don't miss this exciting opportunity to interact with leading scholars, government officials, and advocates and to make your voice heard. The deadline to register is April 10, 2009. Symposium attendees will be provided documentation for CLE credit. Individuals will be responsible for filing the application for CLE credit with their state board. The 2009 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium is sponsored by the National Federation of the Blind, the American Bar Association Commission on Mental and Physical Disability Law, the Maryland Department of Disability, the Texas Journal on Civil Liberties and Civil Rights, and the Legal Times. For additional information about the symposium, contact: Lou Ann Blake, Law Symposium Coordinator National Federation of the Blind Telephone: (410) 659-9314, ext. 2221 E-mail: lblake at nfb.org From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov Wed Mar 18 22:03:59 2009 From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel) Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 17:03:59 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] FW: Attorney Vacancies at the U.S. Department of Justice Message-ID: ________________________________ From: jobs-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:jobs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Maurer, Patricia Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 4:49 AM To: jobs at nfbnet.org Subject: [Jobs] FW: Attorney Vacancies at the U.S. Department of Justice ________________________________ From: Hunter, Sue [mailto:Sue.Hunter at usdoj.gov] Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 12:18 PM To: nedy at wyjlaw.com; newmedia at ja.org; Neysas at dnfsb.gov; Maurer, Patricia; nijc at aol.com; nlove at opd.state.md.us; nmcconnell at jackscamp.com; noconnell at tabinc.org; noryrp at cox.net; nromulus at gmail.com; ntb at boglechang.com; ocaaba at cox.net; omanager at lawyerscomm.org; palsd at hotmail.com; patel at fr.com; pchanster at yahoo.com; pchapman at koonz.com; pgrewal at daycasebeer.com; pkim at lordbissell.com; Maurer, Patricia; pmorrison at state.wv.us; poppy.johnston at unlv.edu; president at abaw.org; president at adc.org; president at apabala.org Subject: FW: Attorney Vacancies at the U.S. Department of Justice To learn more about our attorneys and what they like most about working at DOJ, please visit our attorney profiles at, http://www.usdoj.gov/oarm/arm/profiles.htm, and the video clips of our attorneys and interns available at https://www.avuedigitalservices.com/ads/jobsatdojoarm/index.jsp We encourage you to share this email with interested colleagues and peers. If you no longer wish to receive these periodic email announcements, please respond to this email address and ask to be removed from our mailing list. Thank you. Current Department of Justice Attorney Vacancies * EXPERIENCED ATTORNEYS, GS-13 to GS-15 UNITED STATES DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE NATIONAL SECURITY DIVISION OFFICE OF LAW AND POLICY Announcement remains opened until positions are filled. Date posted: 03-13-2009 * DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE U.S. TRUSTEE'S OFFICE -- LAS VEGAS, NEVADA TRIAL ATTORNEY Applications must be postmarked by the closing date of and will be accepted up to five calendar days after the closing date (April 6, 2009). Date posted: 03-13-2009 * ASSISTANT UNITED STATES ATTORNEY UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE DISTRICT OF KANSAS VACANCY ANNOUNCEMENT NUMBER: 09-KS-AUSA-02 Application must be received by March 20, 2009. Date posted: 03-13-2009 * U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE CRIMINAL DIVISION NARCOTIC AND DANGEROUS DRUG SECTION TRIAL ATTORNEY / GS-13 to GS-15 VACANCY ANNOUNCEMENT NUMBER: 09-CRM-NDDS-006 This position is open until April 2, 2009. Date posted: 03-12-2009 * BOARD MEMBER BOARD OF IMMIGRATION APPEALS EXECUTIVE OFFICE FOR IMMIGRATION REVIEW VACANCY ANNOUNCEMENT NUMBER: EOIR-09-0031 Applications received after April 10, 2009 will not be considered. Date posted: 03-12-2009 * GENERAL COUNSEL EXECUTIVE OFFICE FOR IMMIGRATION REVIEW VACANCY ANNOUNCEMENT NUMBER: EOIR-09-0030 Applications received after April 9, 2009 will not be considered. Date posted: 03-12-2009 * SPECIAL ASSISTANT (GS-0905-13/14/15) U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE ANTITRUST DIVISION OFFICE OF OPERATIONS Applications must be received no later than March 18, 2009. Date posted: 03-12-2009 * EXPERIENCED ATTORNEYS / GS-12 to GS-15 CIVIL DIVISION, COMMERCIAL LITIGATION BRANCH FRAUD SECTION Applications should be submitted as early as possible but, in any event, not later than April 1, 2009. Date posted: 03-11-2009 * U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE CIVIL RIGHTS DIVISION OFFICE OF SPECIAL COUNSEL FOR IMMIGRATION RELATED UNFAIR EMPLOYMENT PRACTICES TRIAL ATTORNEY, GS-905-14/15 This position is open until March 31, 2009. Date posted: 03-11-2009 * U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE CRIMINAL DIVISION RESIDENT LEGAL ADVISOR IN KYRGYZSTAN Applications will be accepted until the position is filled. Date posted: 03-10-2009 * COUNSEL TO THE ASSISTANT ATTORNEY GENERAL (GS-0905-15) U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE ANTITRUST DIVISION OFFICE OF ASSISTANT ATTORNEY GENERAL Applications must be received no later than March 13, 2009. Date posted: 03-09-2009 * ATTORNEY-ADVISOR/GS-14 U.S. PAROLE COMMISSION CHEVY CHASE, MARYLAND Closing date March 30, 2009. Date posted: 03-09-2009 * ASSISTANT UNITED STATES ATTORNEY UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE DISTRICT OF ARIZONA 09-AZ-03 Send application by March 23, 2009. Date posted: 03-06-2009 * U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE CIVIL RIGHTS DIVISION/EDUCATIONAL OPPORTUNITIES SECTION TRIAL ATTORNEYS/GS-12 to GS-15 This position is open until March 27, 2009. Date posted: 03-06-2009 * U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE DRUG ENFORCEMENT ADMINISTRATION OFFICE OF CHIEF COUNSEL DIVISION COUNSEL - SEATTLE DIVISION SEATTLE, WASHINGTON ATTORNEY/GS 15 Applications must be received by April 6, 2009. Date posted: 03-06-2009 * U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE DRUG ENFORCEMENT ADMINISTRATION OFFICE OF CHIEF COUNSEL DIVISION COUNSEL - MIAMI DIVISION MIAMI, FLORIDA ATTORNEY/GS 15 Applications must be received by April 6, 2009. Date posted: 03-06-2009 * U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE DRUG ENFORCEMENT ADMINISTRATION OFFICE OF CHIEF COUNSEL DIVISION COUNSEL - SAN DIEGO DIVISION SAN DIEGO, CALIFORNIA ATTORNEY/GS 15 Applications must be received by April 13, 2009. Date posted: 03-06-2009 * U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE U.S. TRUSTEE'S OFFICE -- BOSTON, MASSACHUSETTS EXPERIENCED ATTORNEY/GS-13 to GS-15 This position will be open until March 23, 2009. Date posted: 03-06-2009 * U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE EXECUTIVE OFFICE FOR UNITED STATES ATTORNEYS OFFICE OF THE CHIEF INFORMATION OFFICER ATTORNEY-ADVISOR/LITIGATOR, GS-0905-15 VACANCY ANNOUNCEMENT NO: 09-EOUSA-35 Application materials must be received by 11:59pm (Eastern Standard Time) on the closing date. Date posted: 03-04-2009 * ASSISTANT UNITED STATES ATTORNEY UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE District of Alaska 09-AK-005 Resumes will be reviewed and acted upon on a rolling basis until the position is filled. Date posted: 03-04-2009 The purpose of this email is to advise potential interested persons of employment opportunities at the Department of Justice. The Department of Justice cannot control further dissemination and/or posting of this information. Such posting and/or dissemination is not an endorsement by the Department of the organization or group disseminating and/or posting the information. -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Jobs mailing list Jobs at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/jobs_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Jobs: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/jobs_nfbnet.org/noel.nightingale%40ed.gov From mildredrivera at yahoo.com Thu Mar 19 14:51:58 2009 From: mildredrivera at yahoo.com (Mildred Rivera-Rau) Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 07:51:58 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [blindlaw] JOBS @ EEOC -- hurry over 70 positions Message-ID: <650798.78749.qm@web33006.mail.mud.yahoo.com>   I wanted to let everyone know that EEOC is going though a hiring phase. We are looking for over 70 investigators and other positions nation-wide. Please forward this information to relevant disability list serves if you have contacts. We would like to hire people with targeted disabilities. If the posting says "status candidates" that includes people with Sch A hiring but not the general public.  Please see this link:   http://jobsearch.usajobs.opm.gov/jobsearch.asp?q=&jbf574=EE00&lid=&jbf522=&salmin=&salmax=&paygrademin=&paygrademax=&FedEmp=Y&tm=&sort=rv&vw=d&ss=0&brd=3876&FedPub=Y&caller=%2Fagency_search.asp&SUBMIT1.x=95&SUBMIT1.y=10   Good luck!!         From Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov Fri Mar 20 21:57:15 2009 From: Noel.Nightingale at ed.gov (Nightingale, Noel) Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 16:57:15 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] IRS tax lawyer vacancies Message-ID: IRS tax-related positions: We invite you to visit the F&M Personnel web page where all of the Office of Chief Counsel's vacancy announcements are posted. IF YOU HAVE QUESTIONS, PLEASE CONTACT THE HR SPECIALIST LISTED ON THE ANNOUNCEMENT. NEW POSTINGS The following positions are new postings for this week. We hope you have an opportunity to view these postings, as well as, other postings that are currently open. You may go directly to these listings or view or open announcements by clicking on the following link: http://intranet/etools/vacancy. (you may want to save this link for future reference). We also will be sending this email as a weekly reminder of new postings. Please note most new announcements posted by the Staffing, Classification and Benefits Branch (GS-14 and below) use an automated process for making application. This enhancement will permit you to directly apply on-line simply by clicking the announcement number. On screen instructions will lead you through the application process. Applicants are encouraged to use this new system because it will make it easier to apply for vacant positions. However, if you are unable to use the system or have questions, you may contact the HR Specialist named on the vacancy announcement. Please note that we were notified today by Career Connector Management and Monster.com that the system will be down until Monday noon. You will be able to apply for the vacancy announcements after 12 p.m on Monday. GS-ERB-09-17 Supervisory Trial Attorney (Tax), Associate Area Counsel, GS-905-15 Office of Division Counsel (Small Business/Self Employed) Oklahoma City, OK Area of Consideration: Office of Chief Counsel Employees only Contact Name: Jacqueline T. Lawson Opens: 03/18/2009 Closes: 04/08/2009 NBU GS-ERB-09-18 Supervisory Trial Attorney (Tax), Associate Area Counsel, GS-905-15 Office of Division Counsel (Small Business/Self Employed) San Francisco, CA Area of Consideration: Office of Chief Counsel Employees only. Contact Name: Jacqueline T. Lawson Opens: 03/18/2009 Closes: 04/08/2009 NBU GS-ERB-09-20 Supervisory Trial Attorney (Tax), Associate Area Counsel, GS-905-15 Office of Division Counsel (Small Business/Self Employed) Manhattan, NY Area of Consideration: Office of Chief Counsel Employees only. Contact Name: Jacqueline T. Lawson Opens: 03/18/2009 Closes: 04/08/2009 NBU CCKM-09-52 General Attorney (Tax), GS-905-13/14 Division Counsel/Associate Chief Counsel (Tax Exempt & Government Entities), Exempt Organizations Washington, DC Area of Consideration: All Sources Contact Name: Krista Moffat Opens: 03/19/2009 Closes: 04/06/2009 BU CCKM-09-48 General Attorney (Tax), GS-905-12/13/14 Division Counsel/Associate Chief Counsel (Tax Exempt & Government Entities) Chicago, IL; Denver, CO; Long Island, NY Area of Consideration: All Sources Contact Name: Krista Moffat Opens: 03/19/2009 Closes: 04/06/2009 BU CCLO-09-43 General Attorney (Tax), GS-905-12/13/14 Associate Chief Counsel (Small Business/Self Employed) Various (please refer to the vacancy announcement) Area of Consideration: All Sources Contact Name: Laura O'Nan Opens: 03/19/2009 Closes: 04/01/2009 BU CCLO-09-44 General Attorney (Tax), GS-905-12/13/14 Associate Chief Counsel (Small Business/Self Employed) Various (please refer to the vacany announcement) Area of Consideration: All Sources Contact Name: Laura O'Nan Opens: 03/19/2009 Closes: 04/01/2009 BU CCLO-09-45 General Attorney (Tax), GS-905-12/13/14 Associate Chief Counsel (Small Business/Self Employed) Various (Please refer to the vacancy announcement) Area of Consideration: All Sources Contact Name: Laura O'Nan Opens: 03/19/2009 Closes: 04/01/2009 BU CCDP-09-46 General Attorney (Tax), GS-905-12/13/14 Associate Chief Counsel (Small Business/Self Employed) Various (Please refer to the vacancy announcement) Area of Consideration: All Sources Contact Name: Deanna Porter Opens: 03/19/2009 Closes: 04/01/2009 BU CCTW-09-31 General Attorney, GS-905-12/13/14 Office of the Division Counsel (LMSB) Boston, MA - Manhattan, NY - Long Island, NY - Hartford, CT Area of Consideration: All Sources Contact Name: Theresa Woodard Opens: 03/19/2009 Closes: 04/02/2009 BU CCTW-09-35 General Attorney (Tax), GS-905-12/13/14 Office of Division Counsel (LMSB) Various (please refer to the vacany announcement) Area of Consideration: All sources Contact Name: Theresa Woodard Opens: 03/19/2009 Closes: 04/02/2009 BU CCKM-09-49 General Attorney (Tax), GS-905-12/13/14 Division Counsel/Associate Chief Counsel (Tax Exempt & Government Entities) Dallas, TX Area of Consideration: All Sources Contact Name: Krista Moffat Opens: 03/19/2009 Closes: 04/06/2009 BU CCKM-09-53 General Attorney (Tax), GS-905-12/13/14 Division Counsel/Associate Chief Counsel (Tax Exempt & Government Entities), Health & Welfare Branch Washington, DC Area of Consideration: All Sources Contact Name: Krista Moffat Opens: 03/19/2009 Closes: 04/06/2009 BU CCKM-09-54 General Attorney (Tax), GS-905-12/13/14 Division Counsel/Associate Chief Counsel (Tax Exempt & Government Entities), Qualified Plans Branch 1 or 2 Washington, DC Area of Consideration: All Sources Contact Name: Krista Moffat Opens: 03/19/2009 Closes: 04/06/2009 BU CCNH-09-28 (AMENDED) P&A, General Attorney (Tax), GS-905-12/13/14 Associate Chief Counsel (Procedure and Administration) Washington, DC Area of Consideration: All Sources Contact Name: Nancy Hom Opens: 03/19/2009 Closes: 04/02/2009 BU CCTW-09-38 General Attorney (Tax), GS-905-12/13/14 Associate Chief Counsel (P&SI) Washington, DC Area of Consideration: All sources Contact Name: Theresa Woodard Opens: 03/19/2009 Closes: 04/02/2009 BU CCTW-09-32 GEneral Attorney (Tax), GS-905-12/13/14 Office of the Division Counsel (LMSB) various (please refer to the vacany announcement) Area of Consideration: All sources Contact Name: Theresa Woodard Opens: 03/19/2009 Closes: 04/02/2009 BU CCTW-09-33 General Attorney (Tax), GS-905-12/13/14 Office of the Division Counsel (LMSB) Various (please refer to the vacany announcement) Area of Consideration: All sources Contact Name: Theresa Woodard Opens: 03/19/2009 Closes: 04/02/2009 BU CCTW-09-34 General Attorney (Tax), GS-905-12/13/14 Office of Division Counsel (LMSB) Various (please refer to the vacany announcement) Area of Consideration: All Sources Contact Name: Theresa Woodard Opens: 03/19/2009 Closes: 04/02/2009 BU CCDP-09-47 General Attorney (Tax), GS-905-12/13/14 Associate Chief Counsel (Small Business/Self Employed) Various (Please refer to the vacancy announcement) Area of Consideration: All Sources Contact Name: Deanna Porter Opens: 03/19/2009 Closes: 04/01/2009 BU 9W2-083-NC Secretary (OA), GS-318-07 Associate Chief Counsel (Finance and Management) Chicago, IL Area of Consideration: Status Chief Counsel and IRS Employees Contact Name: Derika Ferdinand Opens: 03/16/2009 Closes: 03/30/2009 NBU ES-ERB-09-16 Deputy Associate Chief Counsel (Strategic International Programs) Office of Associate Chief Counsel (International), ES-905 Washington, DC Area of Consideration: All Qualified Persons Contact Name: Jacqueline T. Lawson Opens: 03/06/2009 Closes: 04/06/2009 NBU FIRST CONSIDERATION OPPORTUNITIES The following bargaining unit support field positions have been posted by the Brookhaven IRS personnel staff. Under the Counsel-NTEU collective bargaining agreement, all Counsel applicants are entitled to first consideration for such positions. In order to receive first consideration, please email your application to the listed contact by the specified date. If you do not send your application by this means, you will not receive first consideration under the union contract. To see the associated vacancy for these listings please view the Career Opportunities List (COL) at: http://col.web.irs.gov/ . CCKM-09-M51 Paralegal Specialist, GS-950-07 Division Counsel (Large and Mid-Sized Business) Cincinnati, OH and Philadelphia, PA Area of Consideration: Status applicants in the Office of Chief Counsel Contact Name: Krista Moffat Opens: 03/19/2009 Closes: 04/02/2009 BU CCKM-09-D37 Paralegal Specialist, GS-950-07 Division Counsel (Small Business and Self-Employed) Chicago, IL Area of Consideration: Status applicants in the Office of Chief Counsel Contact Name: Krista Moffat Opens: 03/13/2009 Closes: 03/27/2009 BU From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Sat Mar 21 07:04:18 2009 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 00:04:18 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] California need info re statutes involving admission of service animal to business Message-ID: I have a chapter member that experienced discrimination by a store because he brought his guide dog in to the business. I know that this probably falls under the Unruh Civil Rights Act in California and the ADA but I'm also interested in any specific statutes or experiences with this type of discrimination in California as well as possibly referring him to an attorney. Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal 1237 P Street Fresno ca 93721 559-266-9237 From AZNOR99 at aol.com Sat Mar 21 22:18:20 2009 From: AZNOR99 at aol.com (AZNOR99 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 18:18:20 EDT Subject: [blindlaw] Bus from Detroit Airport to Marriott Message-ID: Hi Everyone, Today, I booked my hotel room for convention. I was a bit worried about the $40 cab fare each way from the hotel to the airport, so I asked about cheaper transportation and learned the following: There is a bus that picks up from Baggage Claim at both airport terminals every half hour on week days and every hour on weekends. The fare is $1.50. It drops off two blocks from the Marriott. It also does the return trip to the airport for the same fare. It is the Fort Street bus #125. I was really excited about this because it means I can save $77 in transportation costs and wanted to share the information with all of you. Hope this helps. Ronza **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1220863691x1201421954/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fwww.freecreditreport.com%2Fpm%2Fdefault.aspx%3Fsc%3D668072%26hmpgID %3D62%26bcd%3DMarchfooterNO62) From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Sun Mar 22 01:09:59 2009 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 18:09:59 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Bus from Detroit Airport to Marriott In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <27B0B1C15FB04C3EB59D51F4E01089D7@spike> If it hasn't changed from when I lived in Detroit there is also limousine service from the air port that goes to the various hotels. This may also be something that needs to be researched. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; ; ; ; ; ; ; Sent: Saturday, March 21, 2009 3:18 PM Subject: [blindlaw] Bus from Detroit Airport to Marriott > Hi Everyone, > > Today, I booked my hotel room for convention. I was a bit worried about > the > $40 cab fare each way from the hotel to the airport, so I asked about > cheaper transportation and learned the following: > > There is a bus that picks up from Baggage Claim at both airport terminals > every half hour on week days and every hour on weekends. The fare is > $1.50. It > drops off two blocks from the Marriott. It also does the return trip to > the > airport for the same fare. It is the Fort Street bus #125. > > I was really excited about this because it means I can save $77 in > transportation costs and wanted to share the information with all of you. > Hope this > helps. > > Ronza > > **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 > easy > steps! > (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1220863691x1201421954/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fwww.freecreditreport.com%2Fpm%2Fdefault.aspx%3Fsc%3D668072%26hmpgID > %3D62%26bcd%3DMarchfooterNO62) > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net From b75205 at gmail.com Sun Mar 22 04:18:06 2009 From: b75205 at gmail.com (James Pepper) Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 23:18:06 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Bus from Detroit Airport to Marriott In-Reply-To: <27B0B1C15FB04C3EB59D51F4E01089D7@spike> References: <27B0B1C15FB04C3EB59D51F4E01089D7@spike> Message-ID: If you go through the detroit airport and you are photosensitive watch out for the underground walkway because it has flashing lights strobe lights which is considered art. It is a disaster for those sensitive to this type of problem. The lights span about 1000 feet and it takes about 5 minutes for you to pass through this area. James On Sat, Mar 21, 2009 at 8:09 PM, wrote: > If it hasn't changed from when I lived in Detroit there is also limousine > service from the air port that goes to the various hotels. This may also be > something that needs to be researched. > Chuck > ----- Original Message ----- From: > To: ; ; < > greater-baltimore at nfbnet.org>; ; ; > ; ; > Sent: Saturday, March 21, 2009 3:18 PM > Subject: [blindlaw] Bus from Detroit Airport to Marriott > > > Hi Everyone, >> >> Today, I booked my hotel room for convention. I was a bit worried about >> the >> $40 cab fare each way from the hotel to the airport, so I asked about >> cheaper transportation and learned the following: >> >> There is a bus that picks up from Baggage Claim at both airport terminals >> every half hour on week days and every hour on weekends. The fare is >> $1.50. It >> drops off two blocks from the Marriott. It also does the return trip to >> the >> airport for the same fare. It is the Fort Street bus #125. >> >> I was really excited about this because it means I can save $77 in >> transportation costs and wanted to share the information with all of you. >> Hope this >> helps. >> >> Ronza >> >> **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 >> easy >> steps! >> ( >> http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1220863691x1201421954/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fwww.freecreditreport.com%2Fpm%2Fdefault.aspx%3Fsc%3D668072%26hmpgID >> %3D62%26bcd%3DMarchfooterNO62) >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b75205%40gmail.com > From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Sun Mar 22 09:00:16 2009 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Sun, 22 Mar 2009 02:00:16 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Bus from Detroit Airport to Marriott In-Reply-To: References: <27B0B1C15FB04C3EB59D51F4E01089D7@spike> Message-ID: <8209C298C0EA43F2AD723ED1FD709677@spike> just think of the potential litigation if the lights triggered seizure activity. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Pepper" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Saturday, March 21, 2009 9:18 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Bus from Detroit Airport to Marriott > If you go through the detroit airport and you are photosensitive watch out > for the underground walkway because it has flashing lights strobe lights > which is considered art. It is a disaster for those sensitive to this > type > of problem. The lights span about 1000 feet and it takes about 5 minutes > for you to pass through this area. > > James > > On Sat, Mar 21, 2009 at 8:09 PM, wrote: > >> If it hasn't changed from when I lived in Detroit there is also limousine >> service from the air port that goes to the various hotels. This may also >> be >> something that needs to be researched. >> Chuck >> ----- Original Message ----- From: >> To: ; ; < >> greater-baltimore at nfbnet.org>; ; ; >> ; ; >> >> Sent: Saturday, March 21, 2009 3:18 PM >> Subject: [blindlaw] Bus from Detroit Airport to Marriott >> >> >> Hi Everyone, >>> >>> Today, I booked my hotel room for convention. I was a bit worried >>> about >>> the >>> $40 cab fare each way from the hotel to the airport, so I asked about >>> cheaper transportation and learned the following: >>> >>> There is a bus that picks up from Baggage Claim at both airport >>> terminals >>> every half hour on week days and every hour on weekends. The fare is >>> $1.50. It >>> drops off two blocks from the Marriott. It also does the return trip >>> to >>> the >>> airport for the same fare. It is the Fort Street bus #125. >>> >>> I was really excited about this because it means I can save $77 in >>> transportation costs and wanted to share the information with all of >>> you. >>> Hope this >>> helps. >>> >>> Ronza >>> >>> **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 >>> easy >>> steps! >>> ( >>> http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1220863691x1201421954/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fwww.freecreditreport.com%2Fpm%2Fdefault.aspx%3Fsc%3D668072%26hmpgID >>> %3D62%26bcd%3DMarchfooterNO62) >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net >>> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b75205%40gmail.com >> > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net From qmsingleton at comcast.net Sun Mar 22 21:34:15 2009 From: qmsingleton at comcast.net (Quintina M. Singleton) Date: Sun, 22 Mar 2009 16:34:15 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Jim McCarthy on Thruoureyes Message-ID: The next "Thruoureyes with Joe Ruffalo" live internet radio show is scheduled for Wednesday March 25, 2009 at 8:00 PM EST. Guest host, Jerry Moreno, will be interviewing director of governmental affairs for the National Federation of the Blind, James McCarthy. A brief summary of this year's Washington Seminar, what listeners could be doing to assist in legislative initiatives presently, and advisement concerning how to stay informed with legislative issues year round are topics that will be discussed on the evening's show. I invite you to visit www.thruoureyes.org or to hear the program live via telephone dial 201 793 9022 with the access code: 2400484. To phone in live during the show use: 1 888 572 0141 From b75205 at gmail.com Mon Mar 23 01:34:48 2009 From: b75205 at gmail.com (James Pepper) Date: Sun, 22 Mar 2009 20:34:48 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Bus from Detroit Airport to Marriott In-Reply-To: <8209C298C0EA43F2AD723ED1FD709677@spike> References: <27B0B1C15FB04C3EB59D51F4E01089D7@spike> <8209C298C0EA43F2AD723ED1FD709677@spike> Message-ID: Well that the thing, I saw a man going through the airport in a wheel chair and he was covering his eyes. He was telling me it was all because of this problem. He said it was the guantlet, that's what he called it. It was a strange thing to see this guy holding his eyes while the skycap was pushing the wheel chair. Apparently it causes nausea just with that much exposure. Since the NFB convention is in Detroit, you all might want to investigate this problem. It is an underground walkway under the airplanes between two terminals. James On Sun, Mar 22, 2009 at 4:00 AM, wrote: > just think of the potential litigation if the lights triggered seizure > activity. > Chuck > ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Pepper" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Saturday, March 21, 2009 9:18 PM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Bus from Detroit Airport to Marriott > > > > If you go through the detroit airport and you are photosensitive watch out >> for the underground walkway because it has flashing lights strobe lights >> which is considered art. It is a disaster for those sensitive to this >> type >> of problem. The lights span about 1000 feet and it takes about 5 minutes >> for you to pass through this area. >> >> James >> >> On Sat, Mar 21, 2009 at 8:09 PM, wrote: >> >> If it hasn't changed from when I lived in Detroit there is also limousine >>> service from the air port that goes to the various hotels. This may also >>> be >>> something that needs to be researched. >>> Chuck >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: >>> To: ; ; < >>> greater-baltimore at nfbnet.org>; ; >> >; >>> ; ; < >>> njabs-talk at nfbnet.org> >>> Sent: Saturday, March 21, 2009 3:18 PM >>> Subject: [blindlaw] Bus from Detroit Airport to Marriott >>> >>> >>> Hi Everyone, >>> >>>> >>>> Today, I booked my hotel room for convention. I was a bit worried about >>>> the >>>> $40 cab fare each way from the hotel to the airport, so I asked about >>>> cheaper transportation and learned the following: >>>> >>>> There is a bus that picks up from Baggage Claim at both airport >>>> terminals >>>> every half hour on week days and every hour on weekends. The fare is >>>> $1.50. It >>>> drops off two blocks from the Marriott. It also does the return trip >>>> to >>>> the >>>> airport for the same fare. It is the Fort Street bus #125. >>>> >>>> I was really excited about this because it means I can save $77 in >>>> transportation costs and wanted to share the information with all of >>>> you. >>>> Hope this >>>> helps. >>>> >>>> Ronza >>>> >>>> **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 >>>> easy >>>> steps! >>>> ( >>>> >>>> http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1220863691x1201421954/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fwww.freecreditreport.com%2Fpm%2Fdefault.aspx%3Fsc%3D668072%26hmpgID >>>> %3D62%26bcd%3DMarchfooterNO62) >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> >>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> >>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b75205%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net >> > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b75205%40gmail.com > From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Mon Mar 23 02:57:46 2009 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Sun, 22 Mar 2009 19:57:46 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Bus from Detroit Airport to Marriott In-Reply-To: References: <27B0B1C15FB04C3EB59D51F4E01089D7@spike><8209C298C0EA43F2AD723ED1FD709677@spike> Message-ID: <74AC6B95D7D442D6B546C7288723818B@spike> this is actually a very valid problem where the strobe lights can cause effects such as nausea and in some cases can trigger seizure activity. I understand that this has also come to light regarding certain people with seizure disorders being around light shows, and arcades with video games with this type of lighting. Chucik ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Pepper" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Sunday, March 22, 2009 6:34 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Bus from Detroit Airport to Marriott > Well that the thing, I saw a man going through the airport in a wheel > chair > and he was covering his eyes. He was telling me it was all because of > this > problem. He said it was the guantlet, that's what he called it. It was a > strange thing to see this guy holding his eyes while the skycap was > pushing > the wheel chair. Apparently it causes nausea just with that much > exposure. > > Since the NFB convention is in Detroit, you all might want to investigate > this problem. It is an underground walkway under the airplanes between > two > terminals. > > James > > On Sun, Mar 22, 2009 at 4:00 AM, wrote: > >> just think of the potential litigation if the lights triggered seizure >> activity. >> Chuck >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Pepper" >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" >> Sent: Saturday, March 21, 2009 9:18 PM >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Bus from Detroit Airport to Marriott >> >> >> >> If you go through the detroit airport and you are photosensitive watch >> out >>> for the underground walkway because it has flashing lights strobe lights >>> which is considered art. It is a disaster for those sensitive to this >>> type >>> of problem. The lights span about 1000 feet and it takes about 5 >>> minutes >>> for you to pass through this area. >>> >>> James >>> >>> On Sat, Mar 21, 2009 at 8:09 PM, wrote: >>> >>> If it hasn't changed from when I lived in Detroit there is also >>> limousine >>>> service from the air port that goes to the various hotels. This may >>>> also >>>> be >>>> something that needs to be researched. >>>> Chuck >>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: >>>> To: ; ; < >>>> greater-baltimore at nfbnet.org>; ; >>> >; >>>> ; ; < >>>> njabs-talk at nfbnet.org> >>>> Sent: Saturday, March 21, 2009 3:18 PM >>>> Subject: [blindlaw] Bus from Detroit Airport to Marriott >>>> >>>> >>>> Hi Everyone, >>>> >>>>> >>>>> Today, I booked my hotel room for convention. I was a bit worried >>>>> about >>>>> the >>>>> $40 cab fare each way from the hotel to the airport, so I asked about >>>>> cheaper transportation and learned the following: >>>>> >>>>> There is a bus that picks up from Baggage Claim at both airport >>>>> terminals >>>>> every half hour on week days and every hour on weekends. The fare is >>>>> $1.50. It >>>>> drops off two blocks from the Marriott. It also does the return trip >>>>> to >>>>> the >>>>> airport for the same fare. It is the Fort Street bus #125. >>>>> >>>>> I was really excited about this because it means I can save $77 in >>>>> transportation costs and wanted to share the information with all of >>>>> you. >>>>> Hope this >>>>> helps. >>>>> >>>>> Ronza >>>>> >>>>> **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 >>>>> easy >>>>> steps! >>>>> ( >>>>> >>>>> http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1220863691x1201421954/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fwww.freecreditreport.com%2Fpm%2Fdefault.aspx%3Fsc%3D668072%26hmpgID >>>>> %3D62%26bcd%3DMarchfooterNO62) >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> blindlaw: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> >>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b75205%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> blindlaw: >>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b75205%40gmail.com >> > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net From carter.tjoseph at gmail.com Mon Mar 23 18:09:45 2009 From: carter.tjoseph at gmail.com (T. Joseph Carter) Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 11:09:45 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Bus from Detroit Airport to Marriott In-Reply-To: References: <27B0B1C15FB04C3EB59D51F4E01089D7@spike> <8209C298C0EA43F2AD723ED1FD709677@spike> Message-ID: <20090323180945.GC62271@yumi.bluecherry.net> All I can say, as an albino, is that I'm glad I've got a cane and know how to use it. Joseph On Sun, Mar 22, 2009 at 08:34:48PM -0500, James Pepper wrote: >Well that the thing, I saw a man going through the airport in a wheel chair >and he was covering his eyes. He was telling me it was all because of this >problem. He said it was the guantlet, that's what he called it. It was a >strange thing to see this guy holding his eyes while the skycap was pushing >the wheel chair. Apparently it causes nausea just with that much exposure. > >Since the NFB convention is in Detroit, you all might want to investigate >this problem. It is an underground walkway under the airplanes between two >terminals. > >James From my5thattempt at yahoo.com Tue Mar 24 20:28:51 2009 From: my5thattempt at yahoo.com (M BG) Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 13:28:51 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [blindlaw] Target suit Message-ID: <519022.95249.qm@web36702.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Not to beat a dead horse, but any word on the Target suit disbursements yet? From ms at browngold.com Tue Mar 24 20:55:23 2009 From: ms at browngold.com (Mehgan Sidhu) Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 16:55:23 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Target suit In-Reply-To: <519022.95249.qm@web36702.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <519022.95249.qm@web36702.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I have not heard anything recently. However, the claims administrator has 30 to 75 days from the date of the final order (which was March 10) to disburse the checks to claimants. So, it is unlikely that the checks will be received before mid-April, at the earliest. Mehgan Sidhu Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP 120 East Baltimore Street, Suite 1700 Baltimore, Maryland 21202 410-962-1030 x1324 410-385-0869 (fax) ms at browngold.com www.browngold.com Confidentiality Notice This e-mail may contain confidential information that may also be legally privileged and that is intended only for the use of the addressee(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient or an authorized agent of the recipient, please be advised that any dissemination or copying of this e-mail, or taking of any action in reliance on the information contained herein, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify me immediately by use of the reply button, and then delete the e-mail from your system. Thank you! -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of M BG Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2009 4:29 PM To: Blind Law Mailing List Subject: [blindlaw] Target suit Not to beat a dead horse, but any word on the Target suit disbursements yet? _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ms%40browngold.com From Tim.Ford at cdph.ca.gov Tue Mar 24 23:01:02 2009 From: Tim.Ford at cdph.ca.gov (Ford, Tim (CDPH-OLS)) Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 16:01:02 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Target suit In-Reply-To: References: <519022.95249.qm@web36702.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <839F18076C66C345BD1C0A4ACA67A1F60315B54C@dhsexcmsg12.intra.dhs.ca.gov> Having just dealt with a tax matter, I want to suggest that when recipients are sent their checks, it could be mentioned that the payments are taxable as ordinary income, if that is in fact the case. I am also assuming that these payments will be reported to IRS, so that warning may help folks to avoid later hearing from the IRS. I am guessing that a significant number of recipients would not even think that this would be something to include and pay taxes on. Now if there is some exception that covers these types of payments, then great, but I just wanted to mention this in case they are taxable. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Mehgan Sidhu Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2009 1:55 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Target suit I have not heard anything recently. However, the claims administrator has 30 to 75 days from the date of the final order (which was March 10) to disburse the checks to claimants. So, it is unlikely that the checks will be received before mid-April, at the earliest. Mehgan Sidhu Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP 120 East Baltimore Street, Suite 1700 Baltimore, Maryland 21202 410-962-1030 x1324 410-385-0869 (fax) ms at browngold.com www.browngold.com Confidentiality Notice This e-mail may contain confidential information that may also be legally privileged and that is intended only for the use of the addressee(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient or an authorized agent of the recipient, please be advised that any dissemination or copying of this e-mail, or taking of any action in reliance on the information contained herein, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify me immediately by use of the reply button, and then delete the e-mail from your system. Thank you! -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of M BG Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2009 4:29 PM To: Blind Law Mailing List Subject: [blindlaw] Target suit Not to beat a dead horse, but any word on the Target suit disbursements yet? _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ms%40browngold .com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/tim.ford%40cdp h.ca.gov From dandrews at visi.com Thu Mar 26 13:45:25 2009 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 08:45:25 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] National Federation of the Blind Celebrates Release of the 2009 Louis Braille Bicentennial Silver Dollar Message-ID: FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE CONTACT: Chris Danielsen Director of Public Relations National Federation of the Blind (410) 659-9314, ext. 2330 (410) 262-1281 (Cell) cdanielsen at nfb.org National Federation of the Blind Celebrates Release of the 2009 Louis Braille Bicentennial Silver Dollar NFB Jernigan Institute Releases Report to the Nation on Braille Literacy Crisis Baltimore, Maryland (March 26, 2009): The National Federation of the Blind (NFB), the nation’s oldest and largest organization of blind people and the leading advocate for Braille literacy, today celebrates the release of the 2009 Louis Braille Bicentennial Silver Dollar. This historic commemorative coin, the first-ever U.S. coin to contain tactile, readable Braille, will be launched at a special ceremony at the headquarters of the National Federation of the Blind in Baltimore beginning at 10:00 a.m. on March 26, 2009. The NFB Jernigan Institute, the research and training arm of the National Federation of the Blind, will also release a report to the nation on the literacy crisis facing the blind in America. “The Braille Literacy Crisis in America: Facing the Truth, Reversing the Trend, Empowering the Blind” describes the factors that have contributed to the shocking illiteracy rate of 90 percent among blind children and outlines steps to reverse this trend. A portion of the money from sales of the 2009 Louis Braille Bicentennial Silver Dollar, which was authorized by a law signed by President George W. Bush in 2006, will be used to support the NFB’s “Braille Readers are Leaders” campaign. The campaign is a national initiative created to double the number of blind children learning Braille by 2015. Dr. Marc Maurer, President of the National Federation of the Blind, said: “If the blind can read, the blind can achieve. The Louis Braille Bicentennial Silver Dollar celebrates the man who gave literacy to the blind and is a unique and beautiful keepsake, but it is also a coin with a mission: to make sure that every blind child and every adult losing vision in our nation has the opportunity to learn Braille.” Dr. Fredric K. Schroeder, first vice president of the National Federation of the Blind and coordinator of the NFB’s national Braille Readers are Leaders campaign, said: “Braille is not being taught to many blind children and adults because there are myths and misconceptions surrounding the code. Braille is said to be slow and inefficient, difficult to learn, unnecessary in light of new technology, and something that isolates blind students from their sighted peers. But the blind know these myths to be false, and studies have shown that Braille leads to employment opportunities, independence, and self-confidence for blind people.” The program celebrating the launch of the Louis Braille Bicentennial Silver Dollar will feature: · The presentation of the report · Remarks by Dr. Marc Maurer, President of the National Federation of the Blind · Remarks by Dr. Abraham Nemeth, who invented the Braille code used for mathematics and scientific notation in the United States · Demonstrations by proficient Braille readers, including blind children · A message from United States Senator Christopher J. Dodd, chairman of the Committee on Banking, Housing and Urban Affairs and the sponsor of the legislation authorizing the Louis Braille Bicentennial Silver Dollar · Ed Moy, director of the United States Mint, who will give remarks and sign certificates of authenticity · A “Braille Fair” featuring fun activities for children and adults who want to learn about Braille The National Federation of the Blind is asking the American public, through purchasing this stunning silver dollar, to join its campaign to bring literacy, education, opportunity, and success to the blind of America. The Louis Braille Bicentennial Silver Dollar goes on sale to the general public at noon today. Those interested in ordering a coin should visit www.usmint.gov or call 1-800-USA-MINT (872-6468). For more information about the National Federation of the Blind and the Braille Readers are Leaders campaign, visit www.braille.org. ### David Andrews and white cane Harry. From dandrews at visi.com Fri Mar 27 20:40:37 2009 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 15:40:37 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Informational Picketing Against Authors Guild in New York City Message-ID: >From Chris Danielson: Dear Fellow Federationists: As you may already know, Amazon, Inc. released the newest version of its e-book reader, the Kindle, on February 9 of this year. The Kindle 2 includes a feature that allows e-books downloaded to it to be read aloud. The Authors Guild has objected to this feature because it believes these e-books are licensed only for visual display, and under pressure from the Guild, Amazon has decided to allow authors and publishers to decide which books can be read aloud by this device. Naturally, this is a blow to blind people and others with print disabilities who can benefit from the text-to-speech feature and who would love to be able to purchase books and start reading them immediately for the first time in history. For this reason the National Federation of the Blind has joined with other organizations representing people who cannot use print effectively to fight the Authors Guild. We plan to kick off our public education campaign to increase public pressure on the Authors Guild to reverse its stance with an informational protest in front of the Guild’s headquarters in New York City. This picket will take place on Tuesday, April 7, from noon until 2:00 p.m. I am writing to you in hopes that you can organize members to come to this protest. A number of Federationists from Maryland are coming and we expect participation from other organizations in the coalition, but it would be very helpful if those of you with easy access to New York City would help us by providing more picketers. It is extremely important that we make a strong impression on the Authors Guild and the media so that our message will be heard. In the next few days you will receive more communications with additional logistical details, as well as more information about our position and suggestions on how to respond to questions from the media. In the meantime, if you have additional questions, please do not hesitate to contact me. As soon as you have an idea of how many people may be able to come to this event, please provide that information to John Paré by calling 410-659-9314, ext. 2227, or by e-mailing jpare at nfb.org. Thank you for your assistance in this important matter. Sincerely: Chris Danielsen Christopher S. Danielsen Director of Public Relations NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND David Andrews and white cane Harry. From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Sat Mar 28 07:36:27 2009 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2009 00:36:27 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Informational Picketing Against Authors Guild in NewYork City In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <94D47A96FA004126B3FFB96F0B9C6F95@spike> If the legislative alert system previously discussed on this list hade been implemented members from all over the country could respond with emails or faxes to the Authors Guild to address this issue. This would be much more effective then to expect Federations spending hundreds of dollars on plain fare and hotel accommodations for this cause. While the information definitely needs to be provided there are much more effective ways for this to be done. Charles L. Krugman, M.S.W., ParalegalPresident, NFB of California Central Valley Chapter 1237 P Street Fresno ca 93721 559-266-9237 ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Andrews" To: Sent: Friday, March 27, 2009 1:40 PM Subject: [blindlaw] Informational Picketing Against Authors Guild in NewYork City >From Chris Danielson: Dear Fellow Federationists: As you may already know, Amazon, Inc. released the newest version of its e-book reader, the Kindle, on February 9 of this year. The Kindle 2 includes a feature that allows e-books downloaded to it to be read aloud. The Authors Guild has objected to this feature because it believes these e-books are licensed only for visual display, and under pressure from the Guild, Amazon has decided to allow authors and publishers to decide which books can be read aloud by this device. Naturally, this is a blow to blind people and others with print disabilities who can benefit from the text-to-speech feature and who would love to be able to purchase books and start reading them immediately for the first time in history. For this reason the National Federation of the Blind has joined with other organizations representing people who cannot use print effectively to fight the Authors Guild. We plan to kick off our public education campaign to increase public pressure on the Authors Guild to reverse its stance with an informational protest in front of the Guild's headquarters in New York City. This picket will take place on Tuesday, April 7, from noon until 2:00 p.m. I am writing to you in hopes that you can organize members to come to this protest. A number of Federationists from Maryland are coming and we expect participation from other organizations in the coalition, but it would be very helpful if those of you with easy access to New York City would help us by providing more picketers. It is extremely important that we make a strong impression on the Authors Guild and the media so that our message will be heard. In the next few days you will receive more communications with additional logistical details, as well as more information about our position and suggestions on how to respond to questions from the media. In the meantime, if you have additional questions, please do not hesitate to contact me. As soon as you have an idea of how many people may be able to come to this event, please provide that information to John Paré by calling 410-659-9314, ext. 2227, or by e-mailing jpare at nfb.org. Thank you for your assistance in this important matter. Sincerely: Chris Danielsen Christopher S. Danielsen Director of Public Relations NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND David Andrews and white cane Harry. _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net From everett at zufelt.ca Sat Mar 28 09:00:32 2009 From: everett at zufelt.ca (E.J. Zufelt) Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2009 06:00:32 -0300 Subject: [blindlaw] Informational Picketing Against Authors Guild in NewYork City In-Reply-To: <94D47A96FA004126B3FFB96F0B9C6F95@spike> References: <94D47A96FA004126B3FFB96F0B9C6F95@spike> Message-ID: <4D5D1503-3D66-471B-A599-6FEEF84E6840@zufelt.ca> Good morning, My concern with this action is whether or not the opinion expressed is representative of NFB membership. I for one believe that Amazon is well within their reasonable right to block this functionality from titles on their site to perserve the authors rights to their intellectual property. Perhaps a better approach would be for Amazon to be required to make an unlocked version of the texts available to individuals who register as text impaired. Understandably this method would have several problems that would have to be negotiated between all concerned parties. Just my two cents, Everett On 28-Mar-09, at 4:36 AM, wrote: > If the legislative alert system previously discussed on this list > hade been implemented members from all over the country could > respond with emails or faxes to the Authors Guild to address this > issue. This would be much more effective then to expect Federations > spending hundreds of dollars on plain fare and hotel accommodations > for this cause. While the information definitely needs to be > provided there are much more effective ways for this to be done. > Charles L. Krugman, M.S.W., ParalegalPresident, > NFB of California Central Valley Chapter > 1237 P Street > Fresno ca 93721 > 559-266-9237 > ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Andrews" > To: > Sent: Friday, March 27, 2009 1:40 PM > Subject: [blindlaw] Informational Picketing Against Authors Guild in > NewYork City > > > > >From Chris Danielson: > > Dear Fellow Federationists: > > As you may already know, Amazon, Inc. released the newest version of > its > > e-book reader, the Kindle, on February 9 of this year. The Kindle 2 > > includes a feature that allows e-books downloaded to it to be read > aloud. > > The Authors Guild has objected to this feature because it believes > these > > e-books are licensed only for visual display, and under pressure > from the > > Guild, Amazon has decided to allow authors and publishers to decide > which > > books can be read aloud by this device. Naturally, this is a blow > to blind > > people and others with print disabilities who can benefit from the > > text-to-speech feature and who would love to be able to purchase > books and > > start reading them immediately for the first time in history. For > this > > reason the National Federation of the Blind has joined with other > > organizations representing people who cannot use print effectively > to fight > > the Authors Guild. > > We plan to kick off our public education campaign to increase public > > pressure on the Authors Guild to reverse its stance with an > informational > > protest in front of the Guild's headquarters in New York City. This > picket > > will take place on Tuesday, April 7, from noon until 2:00 p.m. I am > writing > > to you in hopes that you can organize members to come to this > protest. A > > number of Federationists from Maryland are coming and we expect > > participation from other organizations in the coalition, but it > would be > > very helpful if those of you with easy access to New York City would > help us > > by providing more picketers. It is extremely important that we make a > > strong impression on the Authors Guild and the media so that our > message > > will be heard. > > In the next few days you will receive more communications with > additional > > logistical details, as well as more information about our position and > > suggestions on how to respond to questions from the media. In the > meantime, > > if you have additional questions, please do not hesitate to contact > me. As > > soon as you have an idea of how many people may be able to come to > this > > event, please provide that information to John Paré by calling > 410-659-9314, > > ext. 2227, or by e-mailing jpare at nfb.org. Thank you for your > assistance in > > this important matter. > > Sincerely: > > Chris Danielsen > > Christopher S. Danielsen > > Director of Public Relations > > NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND > > > David Andrews and white cane Harry. > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/everett%40zufelt.ca From cdanielsen8 at aol.com Sat Mar 28 11:16:27 2009 From: cdanielsen8 at aol.com (Chris Danielsen) Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2009 07:16:27 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Informational Picketing Against Authors Guild inNewYork City In-Reply-To: <4D5D1503-3D66-471B-A599-6FEEF84E6840@zufelt.ca> References: <94D47A96FA004126B3FFB96F0B9C6F95@spike> <4D5D1503-3D66-471B-A599-6FEEF84E6840@zufelt.ca> Message-ID: <50AF7F0597184596939D794676C898AF@Scorpio13> Hi Everett, First, let me say that not only are Federation members supportive of this action, but we have in fact reached out to other disability organizations representing individuals with spinal cord injuries, dyslexia and other learning disabilities, and other print disabilities and they are all in agreement with this position. Second, the issue here is not whether authors have the right to control their intellectual property, which they most certainly do. The issue is whether they can parse up the uses of an e-book that an individual has already paid for and claim that each potential use of it is an intellectual property right. The Authors Guild is upset because Amazon added a text-to-speech function to its Kindle 2, which means that downloaded e-books can be read aloud. Initially, Amazon did not plan to include the ability to disable that function; the company only backed down when the Authors Guild raised a stink. But the fact is that Amazon was initially legally correct to believe that there was no inherent intellectual property right involved. The reading aloud of text that one has purchased, in private, is not a copyright violation but a fair use. To argue otherwise is to argue that parents who read bedtime stories to their kids, or for that matter blind people who have a print textbook read aloud to them by a reader (human or machine), are violating copyright law. This is ridiculous and every copyright lawyer worth his or her salt knows it; even the Authors Guild is now backing down from it, arguing instead that the terms of their contracts prohibit this use. It makes absolutely no difference whether the reading aloud is done by a human or a machine, as long as there is no "public performance" or derivative work created. The Authors Guild wants what you have suggested--a registration system for people with disabilities, who would then be allowed to unlock the text-to-speech function. But more than just blind people are affected here, and many of them have disabilities that are not tied to a specific organic cause and can't be medically diagnosed. Besides, who would administer this system? Amazon? The Authors Guild? And more to the point, why should disabled readers have to register to read a book that we have paid good money for? The Guild's position is tantamount to saying, "You can buy our e-books but you can't read them without clearance from us." It is unacceptable and discriminatory. Bottom line; Everyone who pays good money for an e-book--which is not inherently either a visual or audio work and could conceivably be converted into even more formats, including Braille--should be able to read it in whatever form works best for them. The authors have a chance here to get money from the disability community--a revenue stream they've never had before since right now we get a lot of our reading material from free or subscription services like NLS or Bookshare. But our money apparently isn't good enough for them. Sure, they're motivated not by keeping us out but by trying to keep out the sighted, in order to make sure that the sighted either pay a surcharge for text-to-speech or buy the much more expensive audio book version. But that's just greed, not an intellectual property dispute. And disabled people who have legitimate reading problems but can't "prove" them to the satisfaction of the Authors Guild will also have to pay that surcharge. This is wrong on many levels and it's lousy business too. I hope that in light of all this you will consider supporting our action. Library services for the blind and others have their place, but the advent of the e-book means that we no longer have to be locked into those systems and potentially will have access to a much broader array of literary content. This has been the dream of the blind and others with print disabilities for generations. We are not going to let a knee-jerk, poorly thought out reaction from some authors organization take that dream away. Chris -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of E.J. Zufelt Sent: Saturday, March 28, 2009 5:01 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Informational Picketing Against Authors Guild inNewYork City Good morning, My concern with this action is whether or not the opinion expressed is representative of NFB membership. I for one believe that Amazon is well within their reasonable right to block this functionality from titles on their site to perserve the authors rights to their intellectual property. Perhaps a better approach would be for Amazon to be required to make an unlocked version of the texts available to individuals who register as text impaired. Understandably this method would have several problems that would have to be negotiated between all concerned parties. Just my two cents, Everett On 28-Mar-09, at 4:36 AM, wrote: > If the legislative alert system previously discussed on this list > hade been implemented members from all over the country could > respond with emails or faxes to the Authors Guild to address this > issue. This would be much more effective then to expect Federations > spending hundreds of dollars on plain fare and hotel accommodations > for this cause. While the information definitely needs to be > provided there are much more effective ways for this to be done. > Charles L. Krugman, M.S.W., ParalegalPresident, > NFB of California Central Valley Chapter > 1237 P Street > Fresno ca 93721 > 559-266-9237 > ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Andrews" > To: > Sent: Friday, March 27, 2009 1:40 PM > Subject: [blindlaw] Informational Picketing Against Authors Guild in > NewYork City > > > > >From Chris Danielson: > > Dear Fellow Federationists: > > As you may already know, Amazon, Inc. released the newest version of > its > > e-book reader, the Kindle, on February 9 of this year. The Kindle 2 > > includes a feature that allows e-books downloaded to it to be read > aloud. > > The Authors Guild has objected to this feature because it believes > these > > e-books are licensed only for visual display, and under pressure > from the > > Guild, Amazon has decided to allow authors and publishers to decide > which > > books can be read aloud by this device. Naturally, this is a blow > to blind > > people and others with print disabilities who can benefit from the > > text-to-speech feature and who would love to be able to purchase > books and > > start reading them immediately for the first time in history. For > this > > reason the National Federation of the Blind has joined with other > > organizations representing people who cannot use print effectively > to fight > > the Authors Guild. > > We plan to kick off our public education campaign to increase public > > pressure on the Authors Guild to reverse its stance with an > informational > > protest in front of the Guild's headquarters in New York City. This > picket > > will take place on Tuesday, April 7, from noon until 2:00 p.m. I am > writing > > to you in hopes that you can organize members to come to this > protest. A > > number of Federationists from Maryland are coming and we expect > > participation from other organizations in the coalition, but it > would be > > very helpful if those of you with easy access to New York City would > help us > > by providing more picketers. It is extremely important that we make a > > strong impression on the Authors Guild and the media so that our > message > > will be heard. > > In the next few days you will receive more communications with > additional > > logistical details, as well as more information about our position and > > suggestions on how to respond to questions from the media. In the > meantime, > > if you have additional questions, please do not hesitate to contact > me. As > > soon as you have an idea of how many people may be able to come to > this > > event, please provide that information to John Paré by calling > 410-659-9314, > > ext. 2227, or by e-mailing jpare at nfb.org. Thank you for your > assistance in > > this important matter. > > Sincerely: > > Chris Danielsen > > Christopher S. Danielsen > > Director of Public Relations > > NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND > > > David Andrews and white cane Harry. > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob al.net > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/everett%40zufelt.c a _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3971 (20090328) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3972 (20090328) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From everett at zufelt.ca Sat Mar 28 12:25:11 2009 From: everett at zufelt.ca (E.J. Zufelt) Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2009 09:25:11 -0300 Subject: [blindlaw] Informational Picketing Against Authors Guild inNewYork City In-Reply-To: <50AF7F0597184596939D794676C898AF@Scorpio13> References: <94D47A96FA004126B3FFB96F0B9C6F95@spike> <4D5D1503-3D66-471B-A599-6FEEF84E6840@zufelt.ca> <50AF7F0597184596939D794676C898AF@Scorpio13> Message-ID: Good morning, Interesting, I think that the word that persuades me here is performance. The argument then, as I understand it, is that the reading aloud, by a person or machine, of a work differs from an audio book that is commercially produced that would be considered a performance of the work. I think that I can accept that to be a reasonable distinction between the two. So, even if the ability to have a work read aloud impacts negatively on an authors return on investment, which it may not, it is as a result of evolving technology and is something that the authoring industry will need to deal with in the same manner as other industries must deal with the potential negative economic impact of evolving technology. Thanks for your thorough explanation, Everett On 28-Mar-09, at 8:16 AM, Chris Danielsen wrote: > Hi Everett, > > First, let me say that not only are Federation members supportive of > this > action, but we have in fact reached out to other disability > organizations > representing individuals with spinal cord injuries, dyslexia and other > learning disabilities, and other print disabilities and they are all > in > agreement with this position. Second, the issue here is not whether > authors > have the right to control their intellectual property, which they most > certainly do. The issue is whether they can parse up the uses of an > e-book > that an individual has already paid for and claim that each > potential use of > it is an intellectual property right. > > The Authors Guild is upset because Amazon added a text-to-speech > function to > its Kindle 2, which means that downloaded e-books can be read aloud. > Initially, Amazon did not plan to include the ability to disable that > function; the company only backed down when the Authors Guild raised a > stink. But the fact is that Amazon was initially legally correct to > believe > that there was no inherent intellectual property right involved. The > reading > aloud of text that one has purchased, in private, is not a copyright > violation but a fair use. To argue otherwise is to argue that > parents who > read bedtime stories to their kids, or for that matter blind people > who have > a print textbook read aloud to them by a reader (human or machine), > are > violating copyright law. This is ridiculous and every copyright > lawyer worth > his or her salt knows it; even the Authors Guild is now backing down > from > it, arguing instead that the terms of their contracts prohibit this > use. It > makes absolutely no difference whether the reading aloud is done by > a human > or a machine, as long as there is no "public performance" or > derivative work > created. > > The Authors Guild wants what you have suggested--a registration > system for > people with disabilities, who would then be allowed to unlock the > text-to-speech function. But more than just blind people are > affected here, > and many of them have disabilities that are not tied to a specific > organic > cause and can't be medically diagnosed. Besides, who would > administer this > system? Amazon? The Authors Guild? And more to the point, why should > disabled readers have to register to read a book that we have paid > good > money for? The Guild's position is tantamount to saying, "You can > buy our > e-books but you can't read them without clearance from us." It is > unacceptable and discriminatory. > > Bottom line; Everyone who pays good money for an e-book--which is not > inherently either a visual or audio work and could conceivably be > converted > into even more formats, including Braille--should be able to read it > in > whatever form works best for them. The authors have a chance here to > get > money from the disability community--a revenue stream they've never > had > before since right now we get a lot of our reading material from > free or > subscription services like NLS or Bookshare. But our money > apparently isn't > good enough for them. Sure, they're motivated not by keeping us out > but by > trying to keep out the sighted, in order to make sure that the sighted > either pay a surcharge for text-to-speech or buy the much more > expensive > audio book version. But that's just greed, not an intellectual > property > dispute. And disabled people who have legitimate reading problems > but can't > "prove" them to the satisfaction of the Authors Guild will also have > to pay > that surcharge. This is wrong on many levels and it's lousy business > too. I > hope that in light of all this you will consider supporting our > action. > > Library services for the blind and others have their place, but the > advent > of the e-book means that we no longer have to be locked into those > systems > and potentially will have access to a much broader array of literary > content. This has been the dream of the blind and others with print > disabilities for generations. We are not going to let a knee-jerk, > poorly > thought out reaction from some authors organization take that dream > away. > > Chris > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw- > bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of E.J. Zufelt > Sent: Saturday, March 28, 2009 5:01 AM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Informational Picketing Against Authors Guild > inNewYork City > > Good morning, > > My concern with this action is whether or not the opinion expressed is > representative of NFB membership. I for one believe that Amazon is > well within their reasonable right to block this functionality from > titles on their site to perserve the authors rights to their > intellectual property. > > Perhaps a better approach would be for Amazon to be required to make > an unlocked version of the texts available to individuals who register > as text impaired. Understandably this method would have several > problems that would have to be negotiated between all concerned > parties. > > Just my two cents, > Everett > > > On 28-Mar-09, at 4:36 AM, wrote: > >> If the legislative alert system previously discussed on this list >> hade been implemented members from all over the country could >> respond with emails or faxes to the Authors Guild to address this >> issue. This would be much more effective then to expect Federations >> spending hundreds of dollars on plain fare and hotel accommodations >> for this cause. While the information definitely needs to be >> provided there are much more effective ways for this to be done. >> Charles L. Krugman, M.S.W., ParalegalPresident, >> NFB of California Central Valley Chapter >> 1237 P Street >> Fresno ca 93721 >> 559-266-9237 >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Andrews" >> >> To: >> Sent: Friday, March 27, 2009 1:40 PM >> Subject: [blindlaw] Informational Picketing Against Authors Guild in >> NewYork City >> >> >> >>> From Chris Danielson: >> >> Dear Fellow Federationists: >> >> As you may already know, Amazon, Inc. released the newest version of >> its >> >> e-book reader, the Kindle, on February 9 of this year. The Kindle 2 >> >> includes a feature that allows e-books downloaded to it to be read >> aloud. >> >> The Authors Guild has objected to this feature because it believes >> these >> >> e-books are licensed only for visual display, and under pressure >> from the >> >> Guild, Amazon has decided to allow authors and publishers to decide >> which >> >> books can be read aloud by this device. Naturally, this is a blow >> to blind >> >> people and others with print disabilities who can benefit from the >> >> text-to-speech feature and who would love to be able to purchase >> books and >> >> start reading them immediately for the first time in history. For >> this >> >> reason the National Federation of the Blind has joined with other >> >> organizations representing people who cannot use print effectively >> to fight >> >> the Authors Guild. >> >> We plan to kick off our public education campaign to increase public >> >> pressure on the Authors Guild to reverse its stance with an >> informational >> >> protest in front of the Guild's headquarters in New York City. This >> picket >> >> will take place on Tuesday, April 7, from noon until 2:00 p.m. I am >> writing >> >> to you in hopes that you can organize members to come to this >> protest. A >> >> number of Federationists from Maryland are coming and we expect >> >> participation from other organizations in the coalition, but it >> would be >> >> very helpful if those of you with easy access to New York City would >> help us >> >> by providing more picketers. It is extremely important that we >> make a >> >> strong impression on the Authors Guild and the media so that our >> message >> >> will be heard. >> >> In the next few days you will receive more communications with >> additional >> >> logistical details, as well as more information about our position >> and >> >> suggestions on how to respond to questions from the media. In the >> meantime, >> >> if you have additional questions, please do not hesitate to contact >> me. As >> >> soon as you have an idea of how many people may be able to come to >> this >> >> event, please provide that information to John Paré by calling >> 410-659-9314, >> >> ext. 2227, or by e-mailing jpare at nfb.org. Thank you for your >> assistance in >> >> this important matter. >> >> Sincerely: >> >> Chris Danielsen >> >> Christopher S. Danielsen >> >> Director of Public Relations >> >> NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND >> >> >> David Andrews and white cane Harry. >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob > al.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/everett%40zufelt.c > a > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol > . > com > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature > database 3971 (20090328) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature > database 3972 (20090328) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/everett%40zufelt.ca From mikefry79 at gmail.com Sat Mar 28 16:17:16 2009 From: mikefry79 at gmail.com (Michael Fry) Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2009 09:17:16 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Informational Picketing Against Authors Guild inNewYork City In-Reply-To: References: <94D47A96FA004126B3FFB96F0B9C6F95@spike> <4D5D1503-3D66-471B-A599-6FEEF84E6840@zufelt.ca> <50AF7F0597184596939D794676C898AF@Scorpio13> Message-ID: <8c58e54a0903280917t4d5b93ear95d903b361ddceab@mail.gmail.com> Without doing an in depth analysis of the issue I will simply say that I strongly support the NFB on this issue. I'm very proud of the NFB for courageously taking up a difficult fight whose positive outcome will in all practical terms improve the lives of the blind. The Guild's neo-luddite stance is shameful and wrong. I will go so far as to say that any anti-technology or scientific advancement policy or stance is detrimental to the visually impaired community because it is only through this technology that the lot of the visually impaired is appreciably improved and frankly the only path to eventually curing blindness. But that's a broader message used perhaps as a guideline that may already be tacitly incorporated into the NFB's mission statement. The NFB should form a coalition with it's other disability advocacy brothers such as those with spinal cord injury ect. to oppose any luddite stances and vigorously advocate the federal government for increased hard life science research and development and less draconian regulations. On Sat, Mar 28, 2009 at 5:25 AM, E.J. Zufelt wrote: > Good morning, > > Interesting, I think that the word that persuades me here is performance. > The argument then, as I understand it, is that the reading aloud, by a > person or machine, of a work differs from an audio book that is commercially > produced that would be considered a performance of the work. I think that I > can accept that to be a reasonable distinction between the two. So, even if > the ability to have a work read aloud impacts negatively on an authors > return on investment, which it may not, it is as a result of evolving > technology and is something that the authoring industry will need to deal > with in the same manner as other industries must deal with the potential > negative economic impact of evolving technology. > > Thanks for your thorough explanation, > Everett > > > > On 28-Mar-09, at 8:16 AM, Chris Danielsen wrote: > > Hi Everett, >> >> First, let me say that not only are Federation members supportive of this >> action, but we have in fact reached out to other disability organizations >> representing individuals with spinal cord injuries, dyslexia and other >> learning disabilities, and other print disabilities and they are all in >> agreement with this position. Second, the issue here is not whether >> authors >> have the right to control their intellectual property, which they most >> certainly do. The issue is whether they can parse up the uses of an e-book >> that an individual has already paid for and claim that each potential use >> of >> it is an intellectual property right. >> >> The Authors Guild is upset because Amazon added a text-to-speech function >> to >> its Kindle 2, which means that downloaded e-books can be read aloud. >> Initially, Amazon did not plan to include the ability to disable that >> function; the company only backed down when the Authors Guild raised a >> stink. But the fact is that Amazon was initially legally correct to >> believe >> that there was no inherent intellectual property right involved. The >> reading >> aloud of text that one has purchased, in private, is not a copyright >> violation but a fair use. To argue otherwise is to argue that parents who >> read bedtime stories to their kids, or for that matter blind people who >> have >> a print textbook read aloud to them by a reader (human or machine), are >> violating copyright law. This is ridiculous and every copyright lawyer >> worth >> his or her salt knows it; even the Authors Guild is now backing down from >> it, arguing instead that the terms of their contracts prohibit this use. >> It >> makes absolutely no difference whether the reading aloud is done by a >> human >> or a machine, as long as there is no "public performance" or derivative >> work >> created. >> >> The Authors Guild wants what you have suggested--a registration system for >> people with disabilities, who would then be allowed to unlock the >> text-to-speech function. But more than just blind people are affected >> here, >> and many of them have disabilities that are not tied to a specific organic >> cause and can't be medically diagnosed. Besides, who would administer this >> system? Amazon? The Authors Guild? And more to the point, why should >> disabled readers have to register to read a book that we have paid good >> money for? The Guild's position is tantamount to saying, "You can buy our >> e-books but you can't read them without clearance from us." It is >> unacceptable and discriminatory. >> >> Bottom line; Everyone who pays good money for an e-book--which is not >> inherently either a visual or audio work and could conceivably be >> converted >> into even more formats, including Braille--should be able to read it in >> whatever form works best for them. The authors have a chance here to get >> money from the disability community--a revenue stream they've never had >> before since right now we get a lot of our reading material from free or >> subscription services like NLS or Bookshare. But our money apparently >> isn't >> good enough for them. Sure, they're motivated not by keeping us out but by >> trying to keep out the sighted, in order to make sure that the sighted >> either pay a surcharge for text-to-speech or buy the much more expensive >> audio book version. But that's just greed, not an intellectual property >> dispute. And disabled people who have legitimate reading problems but >> can't >> "prove" them to the satisfaction of the Authors Guild will also have to >> pay >> that surcharge. This is wrong on many levels and it's lousy business too. >> I >> hope that in light of all this you will consider supporting our action. >> >> Library services for the blind and others have their place, but the advent >> of the e-book means that we no longer have to be locked into those systems >> and potentially will have access to a much broader array of literary >> content. This has been the dream of the blind and others with print >> disabilities for generations. We are not going to let a knee-jerk, poorly >> thought out reaction from some authors organization take that dream away. >> >> Chris >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf Of E.J. Zufelt >> Sent: Saturday, March 28, 2009 5:01 AM >> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Informational Picketing Against Authors Guild >> inNewYork City >> >> Good morning, >> >> My concern with this action is whether or not the opinion expressed is >> representative of NFB membership. I for one believe that Amazon is >> well within their reasonable right to block this functionality from >> titles on their site to perserve the authors rights to their >> intellectual property. >> >> Perhaps a better approach would be for Amazon to be required to make >> an unlocked version of the texts available to individuals who register >> as text impaired. Understandably this method would have several >> problems that would have to be negotiated between all concerned parties. >> >> Just my two cents, >> Everett >> >> >> On 28-Mar-09, at 4:36 AM, wrote: >> >> If the legislative alert system previously discussed on this list >>> hade been implemented members from all over the country could >>> respond with emails or faxes to the Authors Guild to address this >>> issue. This would be much more effective then to expect Federations >>> spending hundreds of dollars on plain fare and hotel accommodations >>> for this cause. While the information definitely needs to be >>> provided there are much more effective ways for this to be done. >>> Charles L. Krugman, M.S.W., ParalegalPresident, >>> NFB of California Central Valley Chapter >>> 1237 P Street >>> Fresno ca 93721 >>> 559-266-9237 >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Andrews" >>> To: >>> Sent: Friday, March 27, 2009 1:40 PM >>> Subject: [blindlaw] Informational Picketing Against Authors Guild in >>> NewYork City >>> >>> >>> >>> From Chris Danielson: >>>> >>> >>> Dear Fellow Federationists: >>> >>> As you may already know, Amazon, Inc. released the newest version of >>> its >>> >>> e-book reader, the Kindle, on February 9 of this year. The Kindle 2 >>> >>> includes a feature that allows e-books downloaded to it to be read >>> aloud. >>> >>> The Authors Guild has objected to this feature because it believes >>> these >>> >>> e-books are licensed only for visual display, and under pressure >>> from the >>> >>> Guild, Amazon has decided to allow authors and publishers to decide >>> which >>> >>> books can be read aloud by this device. Naturally, this is a blow >>> to blind >>> >>> people and others with print disabilities who can benefit from the >>> >>> text-to-speech feature and who would love to be able to purchase >>> books and >>> >>> start reading them immediately for the first time in history. For >>> this >>> >>> reason the National Federation of the Blind has joined with other >>> >>> organizations representing people who cannot use print effectively >>> to fight >>> >>> the Authors Guild. >>> >>> We plan to kick off our public education campaign to increase public >>> >>> pressure on the Authors Guild to reverse its stance with an >>> informational >>> >>> protest in front of the Guild's headquarters in New York City. This >>> picket >>> >>> will take place on Tuesday, April 7, from noon until 2:00 p.m. I am >>> writing >>> >>> to you in hopes that you can organize members to come to this >>> protest. A >>> >>> number of Federationists from Maryland are coming and we expect >>> >>> participation from other organizations in the coalition, but it >>> would be >>> >>> very helpful if those of you with easy access to New York City would >>> help us >>> >>> by providing more picketers. It is extremely important that we make a >>> >>> strong impression on the Authors Guild and the media so that our >>> message >>> >>> will be heard. >>> >>> In the next few days you will receive more communications with >>> additional >>> >>> logistical details, as well as more information about our position and >>> >>> suggestions on how to respond to questions from the media. In the >>> meantime, >>> >>> if you have additional questions, please do not hesitate to contact >>> me. As >>> >>> soon as you have an idea of how many people may be able to come to >>> this >>> >>> event, please provide that information to John Paré by calling >>> 410-659-9314, >>> >>> ext. 2227, or by e-mailing jpare at nfb.org. Thank you for your >>> assistance in >>> >>> this important matter. >>> >>> Sincerely: >>> >>> Chris Danielsen >>> >>> Christopher S. Danielsen >>> >>> Director of Public Relations >>> >>> NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND >>> >>> >>> David Andrews and white cane Harry. >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for blindlaw: >>> >>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob >> al.net >> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for blindlaw: >>> >>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/everett%40zufelt.c >> a >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol >> . >> com >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >> signature >> database 3971 (20090328) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >> signature >> database 3972 (20090328) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/everett%40zufelt.ca >> > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mikefry79%40gmail.com > From johnrsheehan at yahoo.com Sat Mar 28 19:34:05 2009 From: johnrsheehan at yahoo.com (John Sheehan) Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2009 12:34:05 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [blindlaw] Informational Picketing Against Authors Guild in New York City In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <587382.84772.qm@web53807.mail.re2.yahoo.com> The Xavier Society for the Blind strongly supports this effort - we'll put the note (and additional information as it becomes available) on our website and we will encourage people to show up. I will definitely be there.   Fr. John R. Sheehan, SJ Chairman Xavier Society for the Blind 154 East 23rd St New York, NY 10010 Office 212 473-7800 Help us raise money for the Xavier Society for the Blind just by searching the Internet or shopping online with GoodSearch - www.goodsearch.com - powered by Yahoo! Free for you - and money for us! Thank you. ________________________________ From: David Andrews To: david.andrews at nfbnet.org Sent: Friday, March 27, 2009 4:40:37 PM Subject: [blindlaw] Informational Picketing Against Authors Guild in New York City >From Chris Danielson: Dear Fellow Federationists: As you may already know, Amazon, Inc. released the newest version of its e-book reader, the Kindle, on February 9 of this year.  The Kindle 2 includes a feature that allows e-books downloaded to it to be read aloud. The Authors Guild has objected to this feature because it believes these e-books are licensed only for visual display, and under pressure from the Guild, Amazon has decided to allow authors and publishers to decide which books can be read aloud by this device.  Naturally, this is a blow to blind people and others with print disabilities who can benefit from the text-to-speech feature and who would love to be able to purchase books and start reading them immediately for the first time in history.  For this reason the National Federation of the Blind has joined with other organizations representing people who cannot use print effectively to fight the Authors Guild. We plan to kick off our public education campaign to increase public pressure on the Authors Guild to reverse its stance with an informational protest in front of the Guild’s headquarters in New York City.  This picket will take place on Tuesday, April 7, from noon until 2:00 p.m.  I am writing to you in hopes that you can organize members to come to this protest.  A number of Federationists from Maryland are coming and we expect participation from other organizations in the coalition, but it would be very helpful if those of you with easy access to New York City would help us by providing more picketers.  It is extremely important that we make a strong impression on the Authors Guild and the media so that our message will be heard. In the next few days you will receive more communications with additional logistical details, as well as more information about our position and suggestions on how to respond to questions from the media.  In the meantime, if you have additional questions, please do not hesitate to contact me.  As soon as you have an idea of how many people may be able to come to this event, please provide that information to John Paré by calling 410-659-9314, ext. 2227, or by e-mailing jpare at nfb.org.  Thank you for your assistance in this important matter. Sincerely: Chris Danielsen Christopher S. Danielsen Director of Public Relations NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND David Andrews and white cane Harry. _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/johnrsheehan%40yahoo.com From kdbenterprises at yahoo.com Sat Mar 28 20:17:10 2009 From: kdbenterprises at yahoo.com (kdb) Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2009 13:17:10 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [blindlaw] NO MORE EXCUSES - THE BLIND HAVE RIGHTS TO "HEAR WHAT OTHERS SEE" CHALLENGE 09 Message-ID: <629281.6247.qm@web57315.mail.re1.yahoo.com> DEAR EVERYONE WHO CARES! re: Author's Guild/ Amazon Actions and Excuses.... So few seem to really understand, or rather choose instead to ignore, the fact that a product "VISUALLY" offered to us as consumers does nothing for the large segment of our population who are of low vision or blind. Instead it effectively continues the long time practice of discrimination and essentially disallows the visually disabled from active participation in what all others who can see are offered. .. The point remains easy to recognize but seemingly easier to forget: for most visually disabled individuals, their ears aretheir eyes. So, Please help others to understand this as you will gain better insight into the issues after reading the digest contained below following this message and challenge which concerns an attempt to organize a protest against AMAZON.com & the Author's Guild.. Please continue reading and decide if you will join this challenge by signing and sending this on to gain support and possibly convince an attorney or lawyer group to take this human rights issue through those almighty courthouse doors. Then please do scroll below the signatures to read the digest itself from the mighty and wonderful BlindLaw Yahoo group, There you will learn of dates of the protest in NY City planned for April 7, 2009. This is the larger challenge however: via a class action case we propose a suit to prohibit all communication, written notification companies and producers of any type of communication devise or software etc., especially phones, fax machines, all cell phone/tech equipment, and all other products designed to communicate and / or offer communication messages and methods, so production/designer companies refrain from further discrimination against the blind and low visioned population. It is proposed that by establishing this as a requirement during all communication devises production and designing it so accountability is built into the law to prove that all devises etc. are produced with text to speech/voice recognition and voice command abilities so the ease of use feature activates from start up through usage AND established reasonable costs for the devises are based on the average income levels of the disabled. Also essential to this effort will be to establishing the doctor's authority to write Rx's for essential communication devises, these may vary and will need to be defined in the case, and require insurance company/medicaid and medicare, approvals to pay for the devise or equipment. This elimination of an effective equally accessible communication system via text to speech/voice commands and voice recognition software, already developed and in operation with screen reader abilities, must be applied and useable - as well as user friendly - on all platforms including Apple/mac product - ie.. the latest ipod shuffle with reading aloud abilities throughout every menu and sub menu thus making it useable by the blind and visually impaired! This simple system is essential and finally available to the sightless, those who so often, too often, suffer the indignities of a profit seeking - world. A world where others MAKE THE DECISIONS TO HOLD back the rights of the disabled yet make profits often on them by selling them the only products available that are much too difficult for them to easily operate let alone, set up to use! And then, too often , the cost is prohibitive for so many! So why is a universally accessible communication policy and system that assures equal access via these technologies and software still not equally and always available to the blind and low visioned? IS MONEY THE EXCUSE?? Too expensive to produce? Can't use that excuse as it is already out there and has been for years. So, WHAT OTHER REASON COULD IT BE TO NOT have speaking abilities, voice command, voice recognition software built in to the equipment (like the easy to use VoiceOver in mac products) and easily accessible to all visually disabled people? These are the people who require it to have equal access to all that is offered visually to the sighted. AND YES! Braille counts but braille is ONLY ONE WAY AND IS, TO MOST IN TODAYS WORLD, NO LONGER THE EASIEST METHOD. For the deaf and blind perhaps but not so any longer for the Visually Disabled who are able to hear!!! Some items that are available are so costly the expense prohibits many to secure the services. And this is called accessibility? I think not! This seems to remain a legal/human rights for the disabled ADA issue and also seems to indicate it really should be a class action suit leading to the highest level so ALL equipment is made speakable and is useable at a FREE or very reasonable cost to the low visioned and blind users. It applies to all aspects of communication devises such as TV and movies, VDRs , PDAs, clocks, watches, ANYTHING others can see to communicate thoughts or facts and knowledge that the low visioned or blind cannot!!! Why does NOT that make sense to everyone? Money ? That is not an acceptable answer. Consider: Years ago, the deaf fought for hearing aides. And cost was a factor until the fight was won and hearing devices where on the market until the demand was satisfied and costs went down to a reasonable level - in most cases. Insurances were accessed and the story goes on. All must have access - equally! Not selectively! The blind / low visioned MUST have the ability to have all aspects of communication devices spoken aloud to them, especially land line phone caller ID by name and number, phone buttons, all sub-menus within the system, remotes and all sub menus within their oiperating suystems.. the list goes on forever. My long time hope remains that a caring dedicated lawyer will take on this noble cause and keep the world informed as it progresses! Including a text to speech method so the blind too can be aware of what is happening around them as well as what may effect them and can then allow then the option of choice to determine if they want to participate in that effort or act on the information learned or not. Copywrite issues are critical but human rights far exceed them. How can one be part of an effort - perhaps to decide to purchase the book or music or movie etc. if one is not able to understand the communication regarding them because it is only offered VISUALLY? SIMPLY PUT,DESIGNERS AND PRODUCERS OF EQUIPMENT MUST USE SOFTWARE TO USE THE AUDITORY CHANNEL OF THE VISUALLY DISABLED SO THEY TOO ARE INCLUDED IN THE POPULATION. That is it in a nutshell. Now we must fight to get it unilaterally applied to everything. If you agree or disagree this will not be criticized as we all learn form others and our errors are often times corrected through discourse and debate. It is asked that you do so politely, however. Please feel free to comment to help move this noble effort forward. Please help the Blind and Visually Disabled gain equal access to today's technologically advanced world similar to the level those of us who "see with our eyes" are able to do! Thanks for spreading the word. PS - An aside but a notable one: Seems as if a huge part of the profit producing market is being left out of the "BRILLIANT" marketing strategies of communication products, does it not? Foolish move. Tired of excuses, FEEL FREE TO SEND ANY PART OR ALL OF THIS PROTEST AS YOUR OWN WITH ANY CHANGES YOU FEEL WOULD HELP TO INFLUENCE THOSE IN AUTHORITY WITH THE POWER TO CHANGE THIS SITUATION AND GRANT THESE BASIC RIGHTS TO THE BLIND AND VISUALLY IMPAIRED. YES WE CAN! WE CAN CHANGE THIS!... JOIN THIS EFFORT FOR OUR SIGHTLESS RELATIVES AND FRIENDS, PLEASE. AS I SO SADLY LEARNED, TOMORROW BLINDNESS COULD VERY EASILY AFFECT AND /OR INCLUDE YOU! We are 'Tired of Excuses", ***PLEASE SCROLL AND READ BELOW OUR E- SIGNATURES/ EFFORTS FROM THE BLIND LAW DIGEST: KATHY AND DENNIS DIBONA ALICE DRABIK ROSE TURNER kdbenterprises at yahoo.comhttp://fl.local.yahoo.biz/kdbenterprises/index.html From: "blindlaw-request at nfbnet.org" To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org Sent: Saturday, March 28, 2009 1:00:12 PM Subject: blindlaw Digest, Vol 58, Issue 28 Send blindlaw mailing list submissions to blindlaw at nfbnet.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to blindlaw-request at nfbnet.org Today's Topics: Informational Picketing Against Authors Guild in New York Message: 1 Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 15:40:37 -0500 From: David Andrews Subject: [blindlaw] Informational Picketing Against Authors Guild in New York City To: david.andrews at nfbnet.org Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed >From Chris Danielson: Dear Fellow Federationists: As you may already know, Amazon, Inc.. released the newest version of its e-book reader, the Kindle, on February 9 of this year. The Kindle 2 includes a feature that allows e-books downloaded to it to be read aloud. The Authors Guild has objected to this feature because it believes these e-books are licensed only for visual display, and under pressure from the Guild, Amazon has decided to allow authors and publishers to decide which books can be read aloud by this device. Naturally, this is a blow to blind people and others with print disabilities who can benefit from the text-to-speech feature and who would love to be able to purchase books and start reading them immediately for the first time in history. For this reason the National Federation of the Blind has joined with other organizations representing people who cannot use print effectively to fight the Authors Guild. We plan to kick off our public education campaign to increase public pressure on the Authors Guild to reverse its stance with an informational protest in front of the Guild?s headquarters in New York City. This picket will take place on Tuesday, April 7, from noon until 2:00 p.m. I am writing to you in hopes that you can organize members to come to this protest. A number of Federationists from Maryland are coming and we expect participation from other organizations in the coalition, but it would be very helpful if those of you with easy access to New York City would help us by providing more picketers. It is extremely important that we make a strong impression on the Authors Guild and the media so that our message will be heard. In the next few days you will receive more communications with additional logistical details, as well as more information about our position and suggestions on how to respond to questions from the media. In the meantime, if you have additional questions, please do not hesitate to contact me. As soon as you have an idea of how many people may be able to come to this event, please provide that information to John Par? by calling 410-659-9314, ext. 2227, or by e-mailing jpare at nfb.org. Thank you for your assistance in this important matter. Sincerely: Chris Danielsen Christopher S. Danielsen Director of Public Relations NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND David Andrews and white cane Harry. ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2009 00:36:27 -0700 From: Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Informational Picketing Against Authors Guild in NewYork City To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Message-ID: <94D47A96FA004126B3FFB96F0B9C6F95 at spike> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response If the legislative alert system previously discussed on this list hade been implemented members from all over the country could respond with emails or faxes to the Authors Guild to address this issue. This would be much more effective then to expect Federations spending hundreds of dollars on plain fare and hotel accommodations for this cause. While the information definitely needs to be provided there are much more effective ways for this to be done. Charles L. Krugman, M.S.W., ParalegalPresident, NFB of California Central Valley Chapter 1237 P Street Fresno ca 93721 559-266-9237 ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Andrews" To: Sent: Friday, March 27, 2009 1:40 PM Subject: [blindlaw] Informational Picketing Against Authors Guild in NewYork City >From Chris Danielson: Dear Fellow Federationists: As you may already know, Amazon, Inc. released the newest version of its e-book reader, the Kindle, on February 9 of this year. The Kindle 2 includes a feature that allows e-books downloaded to it to be read aloud. The Authors Guild has objected to this feature because it believes these e-books are licensed only for visual display, and under pressure from the Guild, Amazon has decided to allow authors and publishers to decide which books can be read aloud by this device. Naturally, this is a blow to blind people and others with print disabilities who can benefit from the text-to-speech feature and who would love to be able to purchase books and start reading them immediately for the first time in history. For this reason the National Federation of the Blind has joined with other organizations representing people who cannot use print effectively to fight the Authors Guild. We plan to kick off our public education campaign to increase public pressure on the Authors Guild to reverse its stance with an informational protest in front of the Guild's headquarters in New York City. This picket will take place on Tuesday, April 7, from noon until 2:00 p.m. I am writing to you in hopes that you can organize members to come to this protest. A number of Federationists from Maryland are coming and we expect participation from other organizations in the coalition, but it would be very helpful if those of you with easy access to New York City would help us by providing more picketers. It is extremely important that we make a strong impression on the Authors Guild and the media so that our message will be heard. In the next few days you will receive more communications with additional logistical details, as well as more information about our position and suggestions on how to respond to questions from the media. In the meantime, if you have additional questions, please do not hesitate to contact me. As soon as you have an idea of how many people may be able to come to this event, please provide that information to John Par? by calling 410-659-9314, ext. 2227, or by e-mailing jpare at nfb.org. Thank you for your assistance in this important matter. Sincerely: Chris Danielsen Christopher S. Danielsen Director of Public Relations NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND David Andrews and white cane Harry. _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2009 06:00:32 -0300 From: "E.J. Zufelt" Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Informational Picketing Against Authors Guild in NewYork City To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Message-ID: <4D5D1503-3D66-471B-A599-6FEEF84E6840 at zufelt.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed; delsp=yes Good morning, My concern with this action is whether or not the opinion expressed is representative of NFB membership. I for one believe that Amazon is well within their reasonable right to block this functionality from titles on their site to perserve the authors rights to their intellectual property. Perhaps a better approach would be for Amazon to be required to make an unlocked version of the texts available to individuals who register as text impaired. Understandably this method would have several problems that would have to be negotiated between all concerned parties. Just my two cents, Everett On 28-Mar-09, at 4:36 AM, wrote: > If the legislative alert system previously discussed on this list > hade been implemented members from all over the country could > respond with emails or faxes to the Authors Guild to address this > issue. This would be much more effective then to expect Federations > spending hundreds of dollars on plain fare and hotel accommodations > for this cause. While the information definitely needs to be > provided there are much more effective ways for this to be done. > Charles L. Krugman, M.S.W., ParalegalPresident, > NFB of California Central Valley Chapter > 1237 P Street > Fresno ca 93721 > 559-266-9237 > ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Andrews" > To: > Sent: Friday, March 27, 2009 1:40 PM > Subject: [blindlaw] Informational Picketing Against Authors Guild in > NewYork City > > > > >From Chris Danielson: > > Dear Fellow Federationists: > > As you may already know, Amazon, Inc. released the newest version of > its > > e-book reader, the Kindle, on February 9 of this year. The Kindle 2 > > includes a feature that allows e-books downloaded to it to be read > aloud. > > The Authors Guild has objected to this feature because it believes > these > > e-books are licensed only for visual display, and under pressure > from the > > Guild, Amazon has decided to allow authors and publishers to decide > which > > books can be read aloud by this device. Naturally, this is a blow > to blind > > people and others with print disabilities who can benefit from the > > text-to-speech feature and who would love to be able to purchase > books and > > start reading them immediately for the first time in history. For > this > > reason the National Federation of the Blind has joined with other > > organizations representing people who cannot use print effectively > to fight > > the Authors Guild. > > We plan to kick off our public education campaign to increase public > > pressure on the Authors Guild to reverse its stance with an > informational > > protest in front of the Guild's headquarters in New York City. This > picket > > will take place on Tuesday, April 7, from noon until 2:00 p.m. I am > writing > > to you in hopes that you can organize members to come to this > protest. A > > number of Federationists from Maryland are coming and we expect > > participation from other organizations in the coalition, but it > would be > > very helpful if those of you with easy access to New York City would > help us > > by providing more picketers. It is extremely important that we make a > > strong impression on the Authors Guild and the media so that our > message > > will be heard. > > In the next few days you will receive more communications with > additional > > logistical details, as well as more information about our position and > > suggestions on how to respond to questions from the media. In the > meantime, > > if you have additional questions, please do not hesitate to contact > me. As > > soon as you have an idea of how many people may be able to come to > this > > event, please provide that information to John Par? by calling > 410-659-9314, > > ext. 2227, or by e-mailing jpare at nfb.org. Thank you for your > assistance in > > this important matter. > > Sincerely: > > Chris Danielsen > > Christopher S. Danielsen > > Director of Public Relations > > NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND > > > David Andrews and white cane Harry. > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/everett%40zufelt.ca ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2009 07:16:27 -0400 From: "Chris Danielsen" Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Informational Picketing Against Authors Guild inNewYork City To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" Message-ID: <50AF7F0597184596939D794676C898AF at Scorpio13> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hi Everett, First, let me say that not only are Federation members supportive of this action, but we have in fact reached out to other disability organizations representing individuals with spinal cord injuries, dyslexia and other learning disabilities, and other print disabilities and they are all in agreement with this position. Second, the issue here is not whether authors have the right to control their intellectual property, which they most certainly do. The issue is whether they can parse up the uses of an e-book that an individual has already paid for and claim that each potential use of it is an intellectual property right. The Authors Guild is upset because Amazon added a text-to-speech function to its Kindle 2, which means that downloaded e-books can be read aloud. Initially, Amazon did not plan to include the ability to disable that function; the company only backed down when the Authors Guild raised a stink. But the fact is that Amazon was initially legally correct to believe that there was no inherent intellectual property right involved. The reading aloud of text that one has purchased, in private, is not a copyright violation but a fair use. To argue otherwise is to argue that parents who read bedtime stories to their kids, or for that matter blind people who have a print textbook read aloud to them by a reader (human or machine), are violating copyright law. This is ridiculous and every copyright lawyer worth his or her salt knows it; even the Authors Guild is now backing down from it, arguing instead that the terms of their contracts prohibit this use. It makes absolutely no difference whether the reading aloud is done by a human or a machine, as long as there is no "public performance" or derivative work created. The Authors Guild wants what you have suggested--a registration system for people with disabilities, who would then be allowed to unlock the text-to-speech function. But more than just blind people are affected here, and many of them have disabilities that are not tied to a specific organic cause and can't be medically diagnosed. Besides, who would administer this system? Amazon? The Authors Guild? And more to the point, why should disabled readers have to register to read a book that we have paid good money for? The Guild's position is tantamount to saying, "You can buy our e-books but you can't read them without clearance from us." It is unacceptable and discriminatory. Bottom line; Everyone who pays good money for an e-book--which is not inherently either a visual or audio work and could conceivably be converted into even more formats, including Braille--should be able to read it in whatever form works best for them. The authors have a chance here to get money from the disability community--a revenue stream they've never had before since right now we get a lot of our reading material from free or subscription services like NLS or Bookshare. But our money apparently isn't good enough for them. Sure, they're motivated not by keeping us out but by trying to keep out the sighted, in order to make sure that the sighted either pay a surcharge for text-to-speech or buy the much more expensive audio book version. But that's just greed, not an intellectual property dispute. And disabled people who have legitimate reading problems but can't "prove" them to the satisfaction of the Authors Guild will also have to pay that surcharge. This is wrong on many levels and it's lousy business too. I hope that in light of all this you will consider supporting our action. Library services for the blind and others have their place, but the advent of the e-book means that we no longer have to be locked into those systems and potentially will have access to a much broader array of literary content. This has been the dream of the blind and others with print disabilities for generations. We are not going to let a knee-jerk, poorly thought out reaction from some authors organization take that dream away. Chris -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of E.J. Zufelt Sent: Saturday, March 28, 2009 5:01 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Informational Picketing Against Authors Guild inNewYork City Good morning, My concern with this action is whether or not the opinion expressed is representative of NFB membership. I for one believe that Amazon is well within their reasonable right to block this functionality from titles on their site to perserve the authors rights to their intellectual property. Perhaps a better approach would be for Amazon to be required to make an unlocked version of the texts available to individuals who register as text impaired. Understandably this method would have several problems that would have to be negotiated between all concerned parties. Just my two cents, Everett On 28-Mar-09, at 4:36 AM, wrote: > If the legislative alert system previously discussed on this list > hade been implemented members from all over the country could > respond with emails or faxes to the Authors Guild to address this > issue. This would be much more effective then to expect Federations > spending hundreds of dollars on plain fare and hotel accommodations > for this cause. While the information definitely needs to be > provided there are much more effective ways for this to be done. > Charles L. Krugman, M.S.W., ParalegalPresident, > NFB of California Central Valley Chapter > 1237 P Street > Fresno ca 93721 > 559-266-9237 > ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Andrews" > To: > Sent: Friday, March 27, 2009 1:40 PM > Subject: [blindlaw] Informational Picketing Against Authors Guild in > NewYork City > > > > >From Chris Danielson: > > Dear Fellow Federationists: > > As you may already know, Amazon, Inc. released the newest version of > its > > e-book reader, the Kindle, on February 9 of this year. The Kindle 2 > > includes a feature that allows e-books downloaded to it to be read > aloud. > > The Authors Guild has objected to this feature because it believes > these > > e-books are licensed only for visual display, and under pressure > from the > > Guild, Amazon has decided to allow authors and publishers to decide > which > > books can be read aloud by this device. Naturally, this is a blow > to blind > > people and others with print disabilities who can benefit from the > > text-to-speech feature and who would love to be able to purchase > books and > > start reading them immediately for the first time in history. For > this > > reason the National Federation of the Blind has joined with other > > organizations representing people who cannot use print effectively > to fight > > the Authors Guild. > > We plan to kick off our public education campaign to increase public > > pressure on the Authors Guild to reverse its stance with an > informational > > protest in front of the Guild's headquarters in New York City. This > picket > > will take place on Tuesday, April 7, from noon until 2:00 p.m. I am > writing > > to you in hopes that you can organize members to come to this > protest. A > > number of Federationists from Maryland are coming and we expect > > participation from other organizations in the coalition, but it > would be > > very helpful if those of you with easy access to New York City would > help us > > by providing more picketers. It is extremely important that we make a > > strong impression on the Authors Guild and the media so that our > message > > will be heard. > > In the next few days you will receive more communications with > additional > > logistical details, as well as more information about our position and > > suggestions on how to respond to questions from the media. In the > meantime, > > if you have additional questions, please do not hesitate to contact > me. As > > soon as you have an idea of how many people may be able to come to > this > > event, please provide that information to John Par? by calling > 410-659-9314, > > ext. 2227, or by e-mailing jpare at nfb.org. Thank you for your > assistance in > > this important matter. > > Sincerely: > > Chris Danielsen > > Christopher S. Danielsen > > Director of Public Relations > > NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND > > > David Andrews and white cane Harry. > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob al.net > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/everett%40zufelt.c a _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3971 (20090328) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3972 (20090328) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2009 09:25:11 -0300 From: "E.J. Zufelt" Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Informational Picketing Against Authors Guild inNewYork City To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed; delsp=yes Good morning, Interesting, I think that the word that persuades me here is performance. The argument then, as I understand it, is that the reading aloud, by a person or machine, of a work differs from an audio book that is commercially produced that would be considered a performance of the work. I think that I can accept that to be a reasonable distinction between the two.. So, even if the ability to have a work read aloud impacts negatively on an authors return on investment, which it may not, it is as a result of evolving technology and is something that the authoring industry will need to deal with in the same manner as other industries must deal with the potential negative economic impact of evolving technology. Thanks for your thorough explanation, Everett On 28-Mar-09, at 8:16 AM, Chris Danielsen wrote: > Hi Everett, > > First, let me say that not only are Federation members supportive of > this > action, but we have in fact reached out to other disability > organizations > representing individuals with spinal cord injuries, dyslexia and other > learning disabilities, and other print disabilities and they are all > in > agreement with this position. Second, the issue here is not whether > authors > have the right to control their intellectual property, which they most > certainly do. The issue is whether they can parse up the uses of an > e-book > that an individual has already paid for and claim that each > potential use of > it is an intellectual property right. > > The Authors Guild is upset because Amazon added a text-to-speech > function to > its Kindle 2, which means that downloaded e-books can be read aloud. > Initially, Amazon did not plan to include the ability to disable that > function; the company only backed down when the Authors Guild raised a > stink. But the fact is that Amazon was initially legally correct to > believe > that there was no inherent intellectual property right involved. The > reading > aloud of text that one has purchased, in private, is not a copyright > violation but a fair use. To argue otherwise is to argue that > parents who > read bedtime stories to their kids, or for that matter blind people > who have > a print textbook read aloud to them by a reader (human or machine), > are > violating copyright law. This is ridiculous and every copyright > lawyer worth > his or her salt knows it; even the Authors Guild is now backing down > from > it, arguing instead that the terms of their contracts prohibit this > use. It > makes absolutely no difference whether the reading aloud is done by > a human > or a machine, as long as there is no "public performance" or > derivative work > created. > > The Authors Guild wants what you have suggested--a registration > system for > people with disabilities, who would then be allowed to unlock the > text-to-speech function. But more than just blind people are > affected here, > and many of them have disabilities that are not tied to a specific > organic > cause and can't be medically diagnosed. Besides, who would > administer this > system? Amazon? The Authors Guild? And more to the point, why should > disabled readers have to register to read a book that we have paid > good > money for? The Guild's position is tantamount to saying, "You can > buy our > e-books but you can't read them without clearance from us." It is > unacceptable and discriminatory. > > Bottom line; Everyone who pays good money for an e-book--which is not > inherently either a visual or audio work and could conceivably be > converted > into even more formats, including Braille--should be able to read it > in > whatever form works best for them. The authors have a chance here to > get > money from the disability community--a revenue stream they've never > had > before since right now we get a lot of our reading material from > free or > subscription services like NLS or Bookshare. But our money > apparently isn't > good enough for them. Sure, they're motivated not by keeping us out > but by > trying to keep out the sighted, in order to make sure that the sighted > either pay a surcharge for text-to-speech or buy the much more > expensive > audio book version. But that's just greed, not an intellectual > property > dispute. And disabled people who have legitimate reading problems > but can't > "prove" them to the satisfaction of the Authors Guild will also have > to pay > that surcharge. This is wrong on many levels and it's lousy business > too. I > hope that in light of all this you will consider supporting our > action. > > Library services for the blind and others have their place, but the > advent > of the e-book means that we no longer have to be locked into those > systems > and potentially will have access to a much broader array of literary > content. This has been the dream of the blind and others with print > disabilities for generations. We are not going to let a knee-jerk, > poorly > thought out reaction from some authors organization take that dream > away. > > Chris > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw- > bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of E.J. Zufelt > Sent: Saturday, March 28, 2009 5:01 AM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Informational Picketing Against Authors Guild > inNewYork City > > Good morning, > > My concern with this action is whether or not the opinion expressed is > representative of NFB membership. I for one believe that Amazon is > well within their reasonable right to block this functionality from > titles on their site to perserve the authors rights to their > intellectual property. > > Perhaps a better approach would be for Amazon to be required to make > an unlocked version of the texts available to individuals who register > as text impaired. Understandably this method would have several > problems that would have to be negotiated between all concerned > parties. > > Just my two cents, > Everett > > > On 28-Mar-09, at 4:36 AM, wrote: > >> If the legislative alert system previously discussed on this list >> hade been implemented members from all over the country could >> respond with emails or faxes to the Authors Guild to address this >> issue. This would be much more effective then to expect Federations >> spending hundreds of dollars on plain fare and hotel accommodations >> for this cause. While the information definitely needs to be >> provided there are much more effective ways for this to be done. >> Charles L. Krugman, M.S.W., ParalegalPresident, >> NFB of California Central Valley Chapter >> 1237 P Street >> Fresno ca 93721 >> 559-266-9237 >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Andrews" >> >> To: >> Sent: Friday, March 27, 2009 1:40 PM >> Subject: [blindlaw] Informational Picketing Against Authors Guild in >> NewYork City >> >> >> >>> From Chris Danielson: >> >> Dear Fellow Federationists: >> >> As you may already know, Amazon, Inc. released the newest version of >> its >> >> e-book reader, the Kindle, on February 9 of this year. The Kindle 2 >> >> includes a feature that allows e-books downloaded to it to be read >> aloud. >> >> The Authors Guild has objected to this feature because it believes >> these >> >> e-books are licensed only for visual display, and under pressure >> from the >> >> Guild, Amazon has decided to allow authors and publishers to decide >> which >> >> books can be read aloud by this device. Naturally, this is a blow >> to blind >> >> people and others with print disabilities who can benefit from the >> >> text-to-speech feature and who would love to be able to purchase >> books and >> >> start reading them immediately for the first time in history. For >> this >> >> reason the National Federation of the Blind has joined with other >> >> organizations representing people who cannot use print effectively >> to fight >> >> the Authors Guild. >> >> We plan to kick off our public education campaign to increase public >> >> pressure on the Authors Guild to reverse its stance with an >> informational >> >> protest in front of the Guild's headquarters in New York City. This >> picket >> >> will take place on Tuesday, April 7, from noon until 2:00 p.m. I am >> writing >> >> to you in hopes that you can organize members to come to this >> protest. A >> >> number of Federationists from Maryland are coming and we expect >> >> participation from other organizations in the coalition, but it >> would be >> >> very helpful if those of you with easy access to New York City would >> help us >> >> by providing more picketers. It is extremely important that we >> make a >> >> strong impression on the Authors Guild and the media so that our >> message >> >> will be heard. >> >> In the next few days you will receive more communications with >> additional >> >> logistical details, as well as more information about our position >> and >> >> suggestions on how to respond to questions from the media. In the >> meantime, >> >> if you have additional questions, please do not hesitate to contact >> me. As >> >> soon as you have an idea of how many people may be able to come to >> this >> >> event, please provide that information to John Par? by calling >> 410-659-9314, >> >> ext. 2227, or by e-mailing jpare at nfb.org. Thank you for your >> assistance in >> >> this important matter. >> >> Sincerely: >> >> Chris Danielsen >> >> Christopher S. Danielsen >> >> Director of Public Relations >> >> NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND >> >> >> David Andrews and white cane Harry. >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob > al.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/everett%40zufelt.c > a > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol > . > com > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature > database 3971 (20090328) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature > database 3972 (20090328) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet..org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/everett%40zufelt.ca ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2009 09:17:16 -0700 From: Michael Fry Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Informational Picketing Against Authors Guild inNewYork City To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Message-ID: <8c58e54a0903280917t4d5b93ear95d903b361ddceab at mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Without doing an in depth analysis of the issue I will simply say that I strongly support the NFB on this issue. I'm very proud of the NFB for courageously taking up a difficult fight whose positive outcome will in all practical terms improve the lives of the blind. The Guild's neo-luddite stance is shameful and wrong. I will go so far as to say that any anti-technology or scientific advancement policy or stance is detrimental to the visually impaired community because it is only through this technology that the lot of the visually impaired is appreciably improved and frankly the only path to eventually curing blindness. But that's a broader message used perhaps as a guideline that may already be tacitly incorporated into the NFB's mission statement. The NFB should form a coalition with it's other disability advocacy brothers such as those with spinal cord injury ect. to oppose any luddite stances and vigorously advocate the federal government for increased hard life science research and development and less draconian regulations. On Sat, Mar 28, 2009 at 5:25 AM, E.J. Zufelt wrote: > Good morning, > > Interesting, I think that the word that persuades me here is performance. > The argument then, as I understand it, is that the reading aloud, by a > person or machine, of a work differs from an audio book that is commercially > produced that would be considered a performance of the work. I think that I > can accept that to be a reasonable distinction between the two. So, even if > the ability to have a work read aloud impacts negatively on an authors > return on investment, which it may not, it is as a result of evolving > technology and is something that the authoring industry will need to deal > with in the same manner as other industries must deal with the potential > negative economic impact of evolving technology. > > Thanks for your thorough explanation, > Everett > > > > On 28-Mar-09, at 8:16 AM, Chris Danielsen wrote: > > Hi Everett, >> >> First, let me say that not only are Federation members supportive of this >> action, but we have in fact reached out to other disability organizations >> representing individuals with spinal cord injuries, dyslexia and other >> learning disabilities, and other print disabilities and they are all in >> agreement with this position. Second, the issue here is not whether >> authors >> have the right to control their intellectual property, which they most >> certainly do. The issue is whether they can parse up the uses of an e-book >> that an individual has already paid for and claim that each potential use >> of >> it is an intellectual property right. >> >> The Authors Guild is upset because Amazon added a text-to-speech function >> to >> its Kindle 2, which means that downloaded e-books can be read aloud. >> Initially, Amazon did not plan to include the ability to disable that >> function; the company only backed down when the Authors Guild raised a >> stink.. But the fact is that Amazon was initially legally correct to >> believe >> that there was no inherent intellectual property right involved. The >> reading >> aloud of text that one has purchased, in private, is not a copyright >> violation but a fair use. To argue otherwise is to argue that parents who >> read bedtime stories to their kids, or for that matter blind people who >> have >> a print textbook read aloud to them by a reader (human or machine), are >> violating copyright law. This is ridiculous and every copyright lawyer >> worth >> his or her salt knows it; even the Authors Guild is now backing down from >> it, arguing instead that the terms of their contracts prohibit this use. >> It >> makes absolutely no difference whether the reading aloud is done by a >> human >> or a machine, as long as there is no "public performance" or derivative >> work >> created. >> >> The Authors Guild wants what you have suggested--a registration system for >> people with disabilities, who would then be allowed to unlock the >> text-to-speech function. But more than just blind people are affected >> here, >> and many of them have disabilities that are not tied to a specific organic >> cause and can't be medically diagnosed. Besides, who would administer this >> system? Amazon? The Authors Guild? And more to the point, why should >> disabled readers have to register to read a book that we have paid good >> money for? The Guild's position is tantamount to saying, "You can buy our >> e-books but you can't read them without clearance from us." It is >> unacceptable and discriminatory. >> >> Bottom line; Everyone who pays good money for an e-book--which is not >> inherently either a visual or audio work and could conceivably be >> converted >> into even more formats, including Braille--should be able to read it in >> whatever form works best for them. The authors have a chance here to get >> money from the disability community--a revenue stream they've never had >> before since right now we get a lot of our reading material from free or >> subscription services like NLS or Bookshare. But our money apparently >> isn't >> good enough for them. Sure, they're motivated not by keeping us out but by >> trying to keep out the sighted, in order to make sure that the sighted >> either pay a surcharge for text-to-speech or buy the much more expensive >> audio book version. But that's just greed, not an intellectual property >> dispute. And disabled people who have legitimate reading problems but >> can't >> "prove" them to the satisfaction of the Authors Guild will also have to >> pay >> that surcharge. This is wrong on many levels and it's lousy business too. >> I >> hope that in light of all this you will consider supporting our action. >> >> Library services for the blind and others have their place, but the advent >> of the e-book means that we no longer have to be locked into those systems >> and potentially will have access to a much broader array of literary >> content. This has been the dream of the blind and others with print >> disabilities for generations. We are not going to let a knee-jerk, poorly >> thought out reaction from some authors organization take that dream away. >> >> Chris >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf Of E.J. Zufelt >> Sent: Saturday, March 28, 2009 5:01 AM >> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Informational Picketing Against Authors Guild >> inNewYork City >> >> Good morning, >> >> My concern with this action is whether or not the opinion expressed is >> representative of NFB membership. I for one believe that Amazon is >> well within their reasonable right to block this functionality from >> titles on their site to perserve the authors rights to their >> intellectual property. >> >> Perhaps a better approach would be for Amazon to be required to make >> an unlocked version of the texts available to individuals who register >> as text impaired. Understandably this method would have several >> problems that would have to be negotiated between all concerned parties. >> >> Just my two cents, >> Everett >> >> >> On 28-Mar-09, at 4:36 AM, wrote: >> >> If the legislative alert system previously discussed on this list >>> hade been implemented members from all over the country could >>> respond with emails or faxes to the Authors Guild to address this >>> issue. This would be much more effective then to expect Federations >>> spending hundreds of dollars on plain fare and hotel accommodations >>> for this cause. While the information definitely needs to be >>> provided there are much more effective ways for this to be done. >>> Charles L. Krugman, M.S.W., ParalegalPresident, >>> NFB of California Central Valley Chapter >>> 1237 P Street >>> Fresno ca 93721 >>> 559-266-9237 >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Andrews" >>> To: >>> Sent: Friday, March 27, 2009 1:40 PM >>> Subject: [blindlaw] Informational Picketing Against Authors Guild in >>> NewYork City >>> >>> >>> >>> From Chris Danielson: >>>> >>> >>> Dear Fellow Federationists: >>> >>> As you may already know, Amazon, Inc. released the newest version of >>> its >>> >>> e-book reader, the Kindle, on February 9 of this year. The Kindle 2 >>> >>> includes a feature that allows e-books downloaded to it to be read >>> aloud. >>> >>> The Authors Guild has objected to this feature because it believes >>> these >>> >>> e-books are licensed only for visual display, and under pressure >>> from the >>> >>> Guild, Amazon has decided to allow authors and publishers to decide >>> which >>> >>> books can be read aloud by this device. Naturally, this is a blow >>> to blind >>> >>> people and others with print disabilities who can benefit from the >>> >>> text-to-speech feature and who would love to be able to purchase >>> books and >>> >>> start reading them immediately for the first time in history. For >>> this >>> >>> reason the National Federation of the Blind has joined with other >>> >>> organizations representing people who cannot use print effectively >>> to fight >>> >>> the Authors Guild. >>> >>> We plan to kick off our public education campaign to increase public >>> >>> pressure on the Authors Guild to reverse its stance with an >>> informational >>> >>> protest in front of the Guild's headquarters in New York City. This >>> picket >>> >>> will take place on Tuesday, April 7, from noon until 2:00 p.m. I am >>> writing >>> >>> to you in hopes that you can organize members to come to this >>> protest. A >>> >>> number of Federationists from Maryland are coming and we expect >>> >>> participation from other organizations in the coalition, but it >>> would be >>> >>> very helpful if those of you with easy access to New York City would >>> help us >>> >>> by providing more picketers. It is extremely important that we make a >>> >>> strong impression on the Authors Guild and the media so that our >>> message >>> >>> will be heard. >>> >>> In the next few days you will receive more communications with >>> additional >>> >>> logistical details, as well as more information about our position and >>> >>> suggestions on how to respond to questions from the media. In the >>> meantime, >>> >>> if you have additional questions, please do not hesitate to contact >>> me. As >>> >>> soon as you have an idea of how many people may be able to come to >>> this >>> >>> event, please provide that information to John Par? by calling >>> 410-659-9314, >>> >>> ext. 2227, or by e-mailing jpare at nfb.org. Thank you for your >>> assistance in >>> >>> this important matter. >>> >>> Sincerely: >>> >>> Chris Danielsen >>> >>> Christopher S. Danielsen >>> >>> Director of Public Relations >>> >>> NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND >>> >>> >>> David Andrews and white cane Harry. >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for blindlaw: >>> >>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob >> al.net >> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for blindlaw: >>> >>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/everett%40zufelt.c >> a >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol >> . >> com >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >> signature >> database 3971 (20090328) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >> signature >> database 3972 (20090328) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/everett%40zufelt.ca >> > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mikefry79%40gmail.com > ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org End of blindlaw Digest, Vol 58, Issue 28 **************************************** From timandvickie at hotmail.com Sat Mar 28 22:21:09 2009 From: timandvickie at hotmail.com (Tim Shaw) Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2009 22:21:09 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] Informational Picketing Against Authors Guild in New York City In-Reply-To: <587382.84772.qm@web53807.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <587382.84772.qm@web53807.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: good luck, wish i could be there, but 1. i cant afford it. and 2. that will be the second day of my new job, dont think i sohuld ask for a day off that early;) > Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2009 12:34:05 -0700 > From: johnrsheehan at yahoo.com > To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org; david.andrews at nfbnet.org > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Informational Picketing Against Authors Guild in New York City > > The Xavier Society for the Blind strongly supports this effort - we'll put the note (and additional information as it becomes available) on our website and we will encourage people to show up. I will definitely be there. > > Fr. John R. Sheehan, SJ > Chairman > Xavier Society for the Blind > 154 East 23rd St > New York, NY 10010 > > Office 212 473-7800 > Help us raise money for the Xavier Society for the Blind just by searching the Internet or shopping online with GoodSearch - www.goodsearch.com - powered by Yahoo! Free for you - and money for us! Thank you. > > > > > ________________________________ > From: David Andrews > To: david.andrews at nfbnet.org > Sent: Friday, March 27, 2009 4:40:37 PM > Subject: [blindlaw] Informational Picketing Against Authors Guild in New York City > > > >From Chris Danielson: > > Dear Fellow Federationists: > > As you may already know, Amazon, Inc. released the newest version of its > > e-book reader, the Kindle, on February 9 of this year. The Kindle 2 > > includes a feature that allows e-books downloaded to it to be read aloud. > > The Authors Guild has objected to this feature because it believes these > > e-books are licensed only for visual display, and under pressure from the > > Guild, Amazon has decided to allow authors and publishers to decide which > > books can be read aloud by this device. Naturally, this is a blow to blind > > people and others with print disabilities who can benefit from the > > text-to-speech feature and who would love to be able to purchase books and > > start reading them immediately for the first time in history. For this > > reason the National Federation of the Blind has joined with other > > organizations representing people who cannot use print effectively to fight > > the Authors Guild. > > We plan to kick off our public education campaign to increase public > > pressure on the Authors Guild to reverse its stance with an informational > > protest in front of the Guild’s headquarters in New York City. This picket > > will take place on Tuesday, April 7, from noon until 2:00 p.m. I am writing > > to you in hopes that you can organize members to come to this protest. A > > number of Federationists from Maryland are coming and we expect > > participation from other organizations in the coalition, but it would be > > very helpful if those of you with easy access to New York City would help us > > by providing more picketers. It is extremely important that we make a > > strong impression on the Authors Guild and the media so that our message > > will be heard. > > In the next few days you will receive more communications with additional > > logistical details, as well as more information about our position and > > suggestions on how to respond to questions from the media. In the meantime, > > if you have additional questions, please do not hesitate to contact me. As > > soon as you have an idea of how many people may be able to come to this > > event, please provide that information to John Paré by calling 410-659-9314, > > ext. 2227, or by e-mailing jpare at nfb.org. Thank you for your assistance in > > this important matter. > > Sincerely: > > Chris Danielsen > > Christopher S. Danielsen > > Director of Public Relations > > NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND > > > David Andrews and white cane Harry. > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/johnrsheehan%40yahoo.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/timandvickie%40hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ Express your personality in color! Preview and select themes for Hotmail®. http://www.windowslive-hotmail.com/LearnMore/personalize.aspx?ocid=TXT_MSGTX_WL_HM_express_032009#colortheme From cdanielsen8 at aol.com Sun Mar 29 00:43:41 2009 From: cdanielsen8 at aol.com (Chris Danielsen) Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2009 20:43:41 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Informational Picketing Against Authors GuildinNewYork City In-Reply-To: References: <94D47A96FA004126B3FFB96F0B9C6F95@spike><4D5D1503-3D66-471B-A599-6FEEF84E6840@zufelt.ca><50AF7F0597184596939D794676C898AF@Scorpio13> Message-ID: You're exactly right. In my opinion this is not dissimilar to what happened with the music industry, where there was also a knee-jerk reaction against new technology but now you're starting to see download services without DRM. You can go back further than that and see that the same thing happened with VCR's. The pattern is that industries always feel threatened by new technology that they feel loosens the control they have on their product, but the public is way ahead of them. I suspect that the pattern will be repeated in this case. Hopefully our action will move the cycle along a lot faster though. -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of E.J. Zufelt Sent: Saturday, March 28, 2009 8:25 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Informational Picketing Against Authors GuildinNewYork City Good morning, Interesting, I think that the word that persuades me here is performance. The argument then, as I understand it, is that the reading aloud, by a person or machine, of a work differs from an audio book that is commercially produced that would be considered a performance of the work. I think that I can accept that to be a reasonable distinction between the two. So, even if the ability to have a work read aloud impacts negatively on an authors return on investment, which it may not, it is as a result of evolving technology and is something that the authoring industry will need to deal with in the same manner as other industries must deal with the potential negative economic impact of evolving technology. Thanks for your thorough explanation, Everett On 28-Mar-09, at 8:16 AM, Chris Danielsen wrote: > Hi Everett, > > First, let me say that not only are Federation members supportive of > this > action, but we have in fact reached out to other disability > organizations > representing individuals with spinal cord injuries, dyslexia and other > learning disabilities, and other print disabilities and they are all > in > agreement with this position. Second, the issue here is not whether > authors > have the right to control their intellectual property, which they most > certainly do. The issue is whether they can parse up the uses of an > e-book > that an individual has already paid for and claim that each > potential use of > it is an intellectual property right. > > The Authors Guild is upset because Amazon added a text-to-speech > function to > its Kindle 2, which means that downloaded e-books can be read aloud. > Initially, Amazon did not plan to include the ability to disable that > function; the company only backed down when the Authors Guild raised a > stink. But the fact is that Amazon was initially legally correct to > believe > that there was no inherent intellectual property right involved. The > reading > aloud of text that one has purchased, in private, is not a copyright > violation but a fair use. To argue otherwise is to argue that > parents who > read bedtime stories to their kids, or for that matter blind people > who have > a print textbook read aloud to them by a reader (human or machine), > are > violating copyright law. This is ridiculous and every copyright > lawyer worth > his or her salt knows it; even the Authors Guild is now backing down > from > it, arguing instead that the terms of their contracts prohibit this > use. It > makes absolutely no difference whether the reading aloud is done by > a human > or a machine, as long as there is no "public performance" or > derivative work > created. > > The Authors Guild wants what you have suggested--a registration > system for > people with disabilities, who would then be allowed to unlock the > text-to-speech function. But more than just blind people are > affected here, > and many of them have disabilities that are not tied to a specific > organic > cause and can't be medically diagnosed. Besides, who would > administer this > system? Amazon? The Authors Guild? And more to the point, why should > disabled readers have to register to read a book that we have paid > good > money for? The Guild's position is tantamount to saying, "You can > buy our > e-books but you can't read them without clearance from us." It is > unacceptable and discriminatory. > > Bottom line; Everyone who pays good money for an e-book--which is not > inherently either a visual or audio work and could conceivably be > converted > into even more formats, including Braille--should be able to read it > in > whatever form works best for them. The authors have a chance here to > get > money from the disability community--a revenue stream they've never > had > before since right now we get a lot of our reading material from > free or > subscription services like NLS or Bookshare. But our money > apparently isn't > good enough for them. Sure, they're motivated not by keeping us out > but by > trying to keep out the sighted, in order to make sure that the sighted > either pay a surcharge for text-to-speech or buy the much more > expensive > audio book version. But that's just greed, not an intellectual > property > dispute. And disabled people who have legitimate reading problems > but can't > "prove" them to the satisfaction of the Authors Guild will also have > to pay > that surcharge. This is wrong on many levels and it's lousy business > too. I > hope that in light of all this you will consider supporting our > action. > > Library services for the blind and others have their place, but the > advent > of the e-book means that we no longer have to be locked into those > systems > and potentially will have access to a much broader array of literary > content. This has been the dream of the blind and others with print > disabilities for generations. We are not going to let a knee-jerk, > poorly > thought out reaction from some authors organization take that dream > away. > > Chris > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw- > bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of E.J. Zufelt > Sent: Saturday, March 28, 2009 5:01 AM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Informational Picketing Against Authors Guild > inNewYork City > > Good morning, > > My concern with this action is whether or not the opinion expressed is > representative of NFB membership. I for one believe that Amazon is > well within their reasonable right to block this functionality from > titles on their site to perserve the authors rights to their > intellectual property. > > Perhaps a better approach would be for Amazon to be required to make > an unlocked version of the texts available to individuals who register > as text impaired. Understandably this method would have several > problems that would have to be negotiated between all concerned > parties. > > Just my two cents, > Everett > > > On 28-Mar-09, at 4:36 AM, wrote: > >> If the legislative alert system previously discussed on this list >> hade been implemented members from all over the country could >> respond with emails or faxes to the Authors Guild to address this >> issue. This would be much more effective then to expect Federations >> spending hundreds of dollars on plain fare and hotel accommodations >> for this cause. While the information definitely needs to be >> provided there are much more effective ways for this to be done. >> Charles L. Krugman, M.S.W., ParalegalPresident, >> NFB of California Central Valley Chapter >> 1237 P Street >> Fresno ca 93721 >> 559-266-9237 >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Andrews" >> >> To: >> Sent: Friday, March 27, 2009 1:40 PM >> Subject: [blindlaw] Informational Picketing Against Authors Guild in >> NewYork City >> >> >> >>> From Chris Danielson: >> >> Dear Fellow Federationists: >> >> As you may already know, Amazon, Inc. released the newest version of >> its >> >> e-book reader, the Kindle, on February 9 of this year. The Kindle 2 >> >> includes a feature that allows e-books downloaded to it to be read >> aloud. >> >> The Authors Guild has objected to this feature because it believes >> these >> >> e-books are licensed only for visual display, and under pressure >> from the >> >> Guild, Amazon has decided to allow authors and publishers to decide >> which >> >> books can be read aloud by this device. Naturally, this is a blow >> to blind >> >> people and others with print disabilities who can benefit from the >> >> text-to-speech feature and who would love to be able to purchase >> books and >> >> start reading them immediately for the first time in history. For >> this >> >> reason the National Federation of the Blind has joined with other >> >> organizations representing people who cannot use print effectively >> to fight >> >> the Authors Guild. >> >> We plan to kick off our public education campaign to increase public >> >> pressure on the Authors Guild to reverse its stance with an >> informational >> >> protest in front of the Guild's headquarters in New York City. This >> picket >> >> will take place on Tuesday, April 7, from noon until 2:00 p.m. I am >> writing >> >> to you in hopes that you can organize members to come to this >> protest. A >> >> number of Federationists from Maryland are coming and we expect >> >> participation from other organizations in the coalition, but it >> would be >> >> very helpful if those of you with easy access to New York City would >> help us >> >> by providing more picketers. It is extremely important that we >> make a >> >> strong impression on the Authors Guild and the media so that our >> message >> >> will be heard. >> >> In the next few days you will receive more communications with >> additional >> >> logistical details, as well as more information about our position >> and >> >> suggestions on how to respond to questions from the media. In the >> meantime, >> >> if you have additional questions, please do not hesitate to contact >> me. As >> >> soon as you have an idea of how many people may be able to come to >> this >> >> event, please provide that information to John Paré by calling >> 410-659-9314, >> >> ext. 2227, or by e-mailing jpare at nfb.org. Thank you for your >> assistance in >> >> this important matter. >> >> Sincerely: >> >> Chris Danielsen >> >> Christopher S. Danielsen >> >> Director of Public Relations >> >> NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND >> >> >> David Andrews and white cane Harry. >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob > al.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/everett%40zufelt.c > a > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol > . > com > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature > database 3971 (20090328) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature > database 3972 (20090328) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/everett%40zufelt.c a _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3972 (20090328) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3972 (20090328) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Sun Mar 29 05:38:40 2009 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2009 22:38:40 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Informational Picketing Against Authors GuildinNewYork City In-Reply-To: References: <94D47A96FA004126B3FFB96F0B9C6F95@spike><4D5D1503-3D66-471B-A599-6FEEF84E6840@zufelt.ca><50AF7F0597184596939D794676C898AF@Scorpio13> Message-ID: The authors Guild or any other such guild is not exempt from complying with the ADA and other legislation to make their products or services accessible to people with disabilities. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "E.J. Zufelt" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Saturday, March 28, 2009 5:25 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Informational Picketing Against Authors GuildinNewYork City Good morning, Interesting, I think that the word that persuades me here is performance. The argument then, as I understand it, is that the reading aloud, by a person or machine, of a work differs from an audio book that is commercially produced that would be considered a performance of the work. I think that I can accept that to be a reasonable distinction between the two. So, even if the ability to have a work read aloud impacts negatively on an authors return on investment, which it may not, it is as a result of evolving technology and is something that the authoring industry will need to deal with in the same manner as other industries must deal with the potential negative economic impact of evolving technology. Thanks for your thorough explanation, Everett On 28-Mar-09, at 8:16 AM, Chris Danielsen wrote: > Hi Everett, > > First, let me say that not only are Federation members supportive of this > action, but we have in fact reached out to other disability organizations > representing individuals with spinal cord injuries, dyslexia and other > learning disabilities, and other print disabilities and they are all in > agreement with this position. Second, the issue here is not whether > authors > have the right to control their intellectual property, which they most > certainly do. The issue is whether they can parse up the uses of an > e-book > that an individual has already paid for and claim that each potential use > of > it is an intellectual property right. > > The Authors Guild is upset because Amazon added a text-to-speech function > to > its Kindle 2, which means that downloaded e-books can be read aloud. > Initially, Amazon did not plan to include the ability to disable that > function; the company only backed down when the Authors Guild raised a > stink. But the fact is that Amazon was initially legally correct to > believe > that there was no inherent intellectual property right involved. The > reading > aloud of text that one has purchased, in private, is not a copyright > violation but a fair use. To argue otherwise is to argue that parents who > read bedtime stories to their kids, or for that matter blind people who > have > a print textbook read aloud to them by a reader (human or machine), are > violating copyright law. This is ridiculous and every copyright lawyer > worth > his or her salt knows it; even the Authors Guild is now backing down from > it, arguing instead that the terms of their contracts prohibit this use. > It > makes absolutely no difference whether the reading aloud is done by a > human > or a machine, as long as there is no "public performance" or derivative > work > created. > > The Authors Guild wants what you have suggested--a registration system > for > people with disabilities, who would then be allowed to unlock the > text-to-speech function. But more than just blind people are affected > here, > and many of them have disabilities that are not tied to a specific > organic > cause and can't be medically diagnosed. Besides, who would administer > this > system? Amazon? The Authors Guild? And more to the point, why should > disabled readers have to register to read a book that we have paid good > money for? The Guild's position is tantamount to saying, "You can buy our > e-books but you can't read them without clearance from us." It is > unacceptable and discriminatory. > > Bottom line; Everyone who pays good money for an e-book--which is not > inherently either a visual or audio work and could conceivably be > converted > into even more formats, including Braille--should be able to read it in > whatever form works best for them. The authors have a chance here to get > money from the disability community--a revenue stream they've never had > before since right now we get a lot of our reading material from free or > subscription services like NLS or Bookshare. But our money apparently > isn't > good enough for them. Sure, they're motivated not by keeping us out but > by > trying to keep out the sighted, in order to make sure that the sighted > either pay a surcharge for text-to-speech or buy the much more expensive > audio book version. But that's just greed, not an intellectual property > dispute. And disabled people who have legitimate reading problems but > can't > "prove" them to the satisfaction of the Authors Guild will also have to > pay > that surcharge. This is wrong on many levels and it's lousy business too. > I > hope that in light of all this you will consider supporting our action. > > Library services for the blind and others have their place, but the > advent > of the e-book means that we no longer have to be locked into those > systems > and potentially will have access to a much broader array of literary > content. This has been the dream of the blind and others with print > disabilities for generations. We are not going to let a knee-jerk, poorly > thought out reaction from some authors organization take that dream away. > > Chris > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw- bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of E.J. Zufelt > Sent: Saturday, March 28, 2009 5:01 AM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Informational Picketing Against Authors Guild > inNewYork City > > Good morning, > > My concern with this action is whether or not the opinion expressed is > representative of NFB membership. I for one believe that Amazon is > well within their reasonable right to block this functionality from > titles on their site to perserve the authors rights to their > intellectual property. > > Perhaps a better approach would be for Amazon to be required to make > an unlocked version of the texts available to individuals who register > as text impaired. Understandably this method would have several > problems that would have to be negotiated between all concerned parties. > > Just my two cents, > Everett > > > On 28-Mar-09, at 4:36 AM, wrote: > >> If the legislative alert system previously discussed on this list >> hade been implemented members from all over the country could >> respond with emails or faxes to the Authors Guild to address this >> issue. This would be much more effective then to expect Federations >> spending hundreds of dollars on plain fare and hotel accommodations >> for this cause. While the information definitely needs to be >> provided there are much more effective ways for this to be done. >> Charles L. Krugman, M.S.W., ParalegalPresident, >> NFB of California Central Valley Chapter >> 1237 P Street >> Fresno ca 93721 >> 559-266-9237 >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Andrews" >> To: >> Sent: Friday, March 27, 2009 1:40 PM >> Subject: [blindlaw] Informational Picketing Against Authors Guild in >> NewYork City >> >> >> >>> From Chris Danielson: >> >> Dear Fellow Federationists: >> >> As you may already know, Amazon, Inc. released the newest version of >> its >> >> e-book reader, the Kindle, on February 9 of this year. The Kindle 2 >> >> includes a feature that allows e-books downloaded to it to be read >> aloud. >> >> The Authors Guild has objected to this feature because it believes >> these >> >> e-books are licensed only for visual display, and under pressure >> from the >> >> Guild, Amazon has decided to allow authors and publishers to decide >> which >> >> books can be read aloud by this device. Naturally, this is a blow >> to blind >> >> people and others with print disabilities who can benefit from the >> >> text-to-speech feature and who would love to be able to purchase >> books and >> >> start reading them immediately for the first time in history. For >> this >> >> reason the National Federation of the Blind has joined with other >> >> organizations representing people who cannot use print effectively >> to fight >> >> the Authors Guild. >> >> We plan to kick off our public education campaign to increase public >> >> pressure on the Authors Guild to reverse its stance with an >> informational >> >> protest in front of the Guild's headquarters in New York City. This >> picket >> >> will take place on Tuesday, April 7, from noon until 2:00 p.m. I am >> writing >> >> to you in hopes that you can organize members to come to this >> protest. A >> >> number of Federationists from Maryland are coming and we expect >> >> participation from other organizations in the coalition, but it >> would be >> >> very helpful if those of you with easy access to New York City would >> help us >> >> by providing more picketers. It is extremely important that we make a >> >> strong impression on the Authors Guild and the media so that our >> message >> >> will be heard. >> >> In the next few days you will receive more communications with >> additional >> >> logistical details, as well as more information about our position and >> >> suggestions on how to respond to questions from the media. In the >> meantime, >> >> if you have additional questions, please do not hesitate to contact >> me. As >> >> soon as you have an idea of how many people may be able to come to >> this >> >> event, please provide that information to John Paré by calling >> 410-659-9314, >> >> ext. 2227, or by e-mailing jpare at nfb.org. Thank you for your >> assistance in >> >> this important matter. >> >> Sincerely: >> >> Chris Danielsen >> >> Christopher S. Danielsen >> >> Director of Public Relations >> >> NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND >> >> >> David Andrews and white cane Harry. >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob > al.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/everett%40zufelt.c > a > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol . > com > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature > database 3971 (20090328) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature > database 3972 (20090328) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/everett%40zufelt.ca _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net From cdanielsen8 at aol.com Sun Mar 29 21:21:42 2009 From: cdanielsen8 at aol.com (Chris Danielsen) Date: Sun, 29 Mar 2009 17:21:42 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Informational Picketing Against Authors Guild in NewYork City In-Reply-To: <587382.84772.qm@web53807.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <587382.84772.qm@web53807.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: John, Thanks so much for your support! Chris -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of John Sheehan Sent: Saturday, March 28, 2009 3:34 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List; david.andrews at nfbnet.org Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Informational Picketing Against Authors Guild in NewYork City The Xavier Society for the Blind strongly supports this effort - we'll put the note (and additional information as it becomes available) on our website and we will encourage people to show up. I will definitely be there.   Fr. John R. Sheehan, SJ Chairman Xavier Society for the Blind 154 East 23rd St New York, NY 10010 Office 212 473-7800 Help us raise money for the Xavier Society for the Blind just by searching the Internet or shopping online with GoodSearch - www.goodsearch.com - powered by Yahoo! Free for you - and money for us! Thank you. ________________________________ From: David Andrews To: david.andrews at nfbnet.org Sent: Friday, March 27, 2009 4:40:37 PM Subject: [blindlaw] Informational Picketing Against Authors Guild in New York City >From Chris Danielson: Dear Fellow Federationists: As you may already know, Amazon, Inc. released the newest version of its e-book reader, the Kindle, on February 9 of this year.  The Kindle 2 includes a feature that allows e-books downloaded to it to be read aloud. The Authors Guild has objected to this feature because it believes these e-books are licensed only for visual display, and under pressure from the Guild, Amazon has decided to allow authors and publishers to decide which books can be read aloud by this device.  Naturally, this is a blow to blind people and others with print disabilities who can benefit from the text-to-speech feature and who would love to be able to purchase books and start reading them immediately for the first time in history.  For this reason the National Federation of the Blind has joined with other organizations representing people who cannot use print effectively to fight the Authors Guild. We plan to kick off our public education campaign to increase public pressure on the Authors Guild to reverse its stance with an informational protest in front of the Guild’s headquarters in New York City.  This picket will take place on Tuesday, April 7, from noon until 2:00 p.m.  I am writing to you in hopes that you can organize members to come to this protest.  A number of Federationists from Maryland are coming and we expect participation from other organizations in the coalition, but it would be very helpful if those of you with easy access to New York City would help us by providing more picketers.  It is extremely important that we make a strong impression on the Authors Guild and the media so that our message will be heard. In the next few days you will receive more communications with additional logistical details, as well as more information about our position and suggestions on how to respond to questions from the media.  In the meantime, if you have additional questions, please do not hesitate to contact me.  As soon as you have an idea of how many people may be able to come to this event, please provide that information to John Paré by calling 410-659-9314, ext. 2227, or by e-mailing jpare at nfb.org.  Thank you for your assistance in this important matter. Sincerely: Chris Danielsen Christopher S. Danielsen Director of Public Relations NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND David Andrews and white cane Harry. _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/johnrsheehan%40yah oo.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3973 (20090329) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From ukekearuaro at valtdnet.com Sun Mar 29 22:58:35 2009 From: ukekearuaro at valtdnet.com (Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc.) Date: Sun, 29 Mar 2009 16:58:35 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] Court of Appeals affirms currency ruling References: <4313AD4429551F4595A8A414A660C75F12EFF12A@wdcrobe2m05.ed.gov> Message-ID: <4A87133D67BD435A843E1680109F4E8C@valtd> Any more word on the implementation of the Court of Appeals reaffirmation of the currency identification ruling? Sincerely, Olusegun Denver, Colorado From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Mon Mar 30 03:23:33 2009 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Sun, 29 Mar 2009 20:23:33 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Court of Appeals affirms currency ruling In-Reply-To: <4A87133D67BD435A843E1680109F4E8C@valtd> References: <4313AD4429551F4595A8A414A660C75F12EFF12A@wdcrobe2m05.ed.gov> <4A87133D67BD435A843E1680109F4E8C@valtd> Message-ID: I remember that it was referred back to the Department of the Treasury to explore methods of implementations when they decided not to appeal the ruling. I don't recall a specific time frame however. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc." To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Sunday, March 29, 2009 3:58 PM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Court of Appeals affirms currency ruling > Any more word on the implementation of the Court of Appeals reaffirmation > of the currency identification ruling? > > Sincerely, > Olusegun > Denver, Colorado > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net From slabarre at labarrelaw.com Mon Mar 30 16:16:51 2009 From: slabarre at labarrelaw.com (Scott C. LaBarre) Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2009 10:16:51 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] Fw: Reading Rights Coalition Urges Authors to Allow Everyone Access to E-books Message-ID: <40DB1C3BA7A1407E83E3E7A85D0E24FE@labarre> ----- Original Message ----- From: Freeh, Jessica To: Alpidio Rolon ; Amy Buresh ; Anil Lewis ; Art Schreiber ; Beth Rival ; Bob Kresmer ; Carl Jacobsen ; Cathy Jackson ; Charlene Smyth ; Christine G. Hall ; Daniel Burke ; David Ticchi ; Don Galloway ; Donna Wood ; Elsie Lamp ; Frank Lee ; Franklin Shiner ; Fred Schroeder ; Fred Wurtzel ; Gary Ray ; Gary Wunder ; J.W. Smith ; James Antonacci ; James Broadnax ; Jennelle Bichler ; Jennifer Dunnam ; Jerree Harris ; Joe Ruffalo ; John Batron ; John Fritz ; Joyce Scanlan ; Kathy Davis ; Ken Rollman ; Kevan Worley ; Marie Johnson ; Mary Willows ; Melissa Riccobono ; Michael Barber ; Michael Freeman ; Nani Fife ; Pam Allen ; Parnell Diggs ; Patti Chang ; Richard Bennett ; Richard Gaffney ; Ron Brown ; Ron Gardner ; Sam Gleese ; Scott LaBarre ; Selena Sundling-Crawford ; Steven Priddle ; Terri Rupp ; Tommy Craig Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 7:09 AM Subject: Reading Rights Coalition Urges Authors to Allow Everyone Access to E-books FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE CONTACT: Chris Danielsen Director of Public Relations National Federation of the Blind (410) 659-9314, ext. 2330 (410) 262-1281 (Cell) cdanielsen at nfb.org Reading Rights Coalition Urges Authors to Allow Everyone Access to E-books Informational Protest to be Held at Authors Guild Headquarters New York City (March 30, 2009): The Reading Rights Coalition, which represents people who cannot read print, will protest the threatened removal of the text-to-speech function from e-books for the Amazon Kindle 2 outside the Authors Guild headquarters in New York City at 31 East 32nd Street on April 7, 2009, from noon to 2:00 p.m. The coalition includes the blind, people with dyslexia, people with learning or processing issues, seniors losing vision, people with spinal cord injuries, people recovering from strokes, and many others for whom the addition of text-to-speech on the Kindle 2 promised for the first time easy, mainstream access to over 245,000 books. When Amazon released the Kindle 2 electronic book reader on February 9, 2009, the company announced that the device would be able to read e-books aloud using text-to-speech technology. Under pressure from the Authors Guild, Amazon has announced that it will give authors and publishers the ability to disable the text-to-speech function on any or all of their e-books available for the Kindle 2. Dr. Marc Maurer, President of the National Federation of the Blind, said: "The blind and print-disabled have for years utilized text-to-speech technology to read and access information. As technology advances and more books move from hard-copy print to electronic formats, people with print disabilities have for the first time in history the opportunity to enjoy access to books on an equal basis with those who can read print. Authors and publishers who elect to disable text-to-speech for their e-books on the Kindle 2 prevent people who are blind or have other print disabilities from reading these e-books. This is blatant discrimination and we will not tolerate it." Mike Shuttic, president of the Association on Higher Education and Disability (AHEAD), said: "AHEAD envisions educational and societal environments that value disability and embody equality of opportunity. This vision of AHEAD is directly aligned with the efforts of this coalition. Although much rhetoric is made about potential obstacles and problems that exist, the basic goal is clear and simple--access for everyone. And why create something that prevents it?" Mitch Pomerantz, president of the American Council of the Blind, said: "Removing the text-to-speech features closes the door on an innovative technological solution that would make regular print books available to tens of thousands of individuals who are blind or visually impaired." Andrew Imparato, President and Chief Executive Officer for the American Association of People with Disabilities (AAPD), said: "It is outrageous when a technology device shuts out people with all kinds of disabilities. AAPD works to remove barriers to accessibility and usability in technology, and we don't expect to see people with disabilities singled out by having to pay more for access. New technologies, such as electronic books, should be available to everyone regardless of disability." Paul Schroeder, vice president of programs and policy for the American Foundation for the Blind, said: "Those of us with print disabilities have long dreamed of a world in which books and media are available to us at the same time as everyone else. The Kindle 2 offers that possibility for the first time. We hope publishers and authors come to see that text-to-speech is simply an alternative means of access to print." Dr. Peter Blanck, chairman and university professor at Burton Blatt Institute at Syracuse University, said: "As electronic books become the norm, denying universal access will result in more and more people with disabilities being left out of education, employment, and the societal conversation. We will all suffer from the absence of their participation and contribution to the debates that occupy us as a society." George Kerscher of the Digital Accessible Information System (DAISY) Consortium, said: "The DAISY Consortium envisions a world where people with print disabilities have equal access to information and knowledge, without delay or additional expense. Authors and publishers surely must share this vision. Now that the issue of human rights has been explained, and the opportunity for larger sales are known, I urge the Authors Guild to reverse their position on text-to-speech and join us in actively encouraging all publishers and reading technology developers to open the world of reading to everybody. Authors, join us on the picket line." Steve Jacobs, president of IDEAL Group Inc., said, "Not only is text-to-speech important to people who are blind, it is critical in providing quality educations to millions of young people who rely on text-to-speech to learn effectively. This includes students with autism, learning disabilities, mobility disabilities, and cognitive disabilities that impact their ability to acquire information with their eyes only. I remain hopeful that the talented members of the Authors Guild come to understand the potential negative impact of disabling the text-to-speech function on their e-books and reconsider their position." Cynthia D. Waddell, executive director of the International Center for Disability Resources on the Internet (ICDRI), said: "The mission of ICDRI supports the removal of barriers in electronic and information technology and the promotion of equal access. ICDRI welcomes the text-to-speech functionality being offered by the Kindle 2 since it increases mainstream access to books for the first time in history. We question why the Authors Guild demands that it be turned it off since many more books would be sold if text-to-speech was turned back on. Not only does this feature benefit persons with disabilities, but it also helps persons for whom English is not their native language. In an increasingly mobile society, flexibility in access to content improves the quality of life for everyone." James Love, director of Knowledge Ecology International, said: "Knowing full well that not everyone can see, the Authors Guild wants the right to be seen, but not heard. By bullying Amazon to change the technology of Kindle 2, the Authors Guild will either deny access to people who are disabled, or make them pay more. By attacking disabled persons in this way, the Authors Guild is attacking everyone who would otherwise benefit from the contributions this community has the potential to offer." James H. Wendorf, executive director for the National Center for Learning Disabilities, said: "Access to the written word is the cornerstone of education and democracy. New technologies must serve individuals with disabilities, not impede them. Our homes, schools and ultimately our economy rely on support for the future, not discriminating practices and beliefs from the past." While the Kindle 2 is not currently accessible to blind users, Amazon recently announced on its Kindle 2 blog that it is currently at work on making the device's navigational features accessible to the blind. The coalition includes: American Association of People with Disabilities, American Council of the Blind, American Foundation for the Blind, Association on Higher Education and Disability, Bazelon Center for Mental Health Law, Burton Blatt Institute, Digital Accessible Information System (DAISY) Consortium, Disability Rights Education and Defense Fund (DREDF), IDEAL Group, Inc., International Center for Disability Resources on the Internet, International Dyslexia Association, International Dyslexia Association--New York Branch, Knowledge Ecology International, Learning Disabilities Association of America, National Center for Learning Disabilities, National Disability Rights Network, National Federation of the Blind, NISH, and the National Spinal Cord Injury Association. In addition to the April 7 New York City protest, the coalition will participate in the Los Angeles Times Festival of Books on April 25-26. ### From DFrye at nfb.org Mon Mar 30 16:19:56 2009 From: DFrye at nfb.org (Frye, Dan) Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2009 12:19:56 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] tenBroek Law Symposium--Still Time to Register Message-ID: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6B953E11@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local> List Colleagues: Lou Ann Blake, the tenBroek Law Symposium coordinator on the NFB national staff, has asked that I post this reminder flyer once again to members of the blind and visually impaired legal community subscribed to this list. In addition to everything Lou Ann says in the following announcement (which is also attached as a Word Document for your convenience), I am reasonably confident that some accommodations here at the National Center for the Blind can be made available for our members and friends who would come except for the additional expense associated with lodging. If free sleeping accommodations here at the National Center for the Blind would make your participation more likely, please contact Lou Ann Blake to discuss arrangements. As stated in the announcement, other financial concessions associated with the tenBroek Law Symposium can also be made in certain circumstances. Lou Ann has assembled a high-caliber array of program presenters, and we want to make certain that people can benefit from this important symposium. See the announcement pasted below and attached to this message for further information: There's Still Time to Register and Reserve Your Room at the Holiday Inn Inner Harbor For the 2009 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium New Perspectives on Disability Law: Advancing the Right to Live in the World Be sure to let your colleagues and friends know that the deadline to register for this exciting and powerful symposium is April 10, 2009, and that the cut-off date for reserving rooms at the Holiday Inn Inner Harbor has been extended to April 3, 2009. Don't miss this opportunity to voice your concerns to Kareem Dale, Special Assistant to President Obama for Disability Policy, at the 2009 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium on April 17th at the National Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute in Baltimore, Maryland. Mr. Dale will speak on the Obama administration's policies on disability issues for approximately thirty minutes followed by a forty-five minute question and answer session. In addition to Mr. Dale, the presenters for the 2009 symposium are: * Maura Healey, Assistant Attorney General and Chief, Office of Civil Rights, Commonwealth of Massachusetts; * Amy Robertson and Timothy Fox, Principals, Fox & Robertson, P.C.; * Gerard Quinn, Professor of Law, National University of Ireland, Galway; * Katherine Guernsey, International Lawyer and Adjunct Professor, American University School of International Service; * Samuel Bagenstos, Visiting Professor of Law, UCLA Law School; * Christine Griffin, Commissioner, United States Equal Employment Opportunity Commission; and * Peter Blanck, University Professor and Chairman, Burton Blatt Institute at Syracuse University. Ari Ne'eman, founding president of the Autistic Self-Advocacy Network, will give the luncheon keynote address. To view the full agenda, register online, or download the registration form to register by mail or fax, visit the symposium Web page at http://www.nfb.org/nfb/Law_Symposium.asp. Hotel information may also be found on the symposium Web page. The deadline to make room reservations at the Holiday Inn Inner Harbor has been extended to 3:00 pm, April 3, 2009. The registration fee is $150; students may register for $20. A limited number of scholarships to cover the registration fee will be available to individuals with demonstrated financial need. Don't miss this exciting opportunity to interact with leading scholars, government officials, and advocates and to make your voice heard. The deadline to register is April 10, 2009. Symposium attendees will be provided documentation for CLE credit. Individuals will be responsible for filing the application for CLE credit with their state board. The 2009 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium is sponsored by the National Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute, the American Bar Association Commission on Mental and Physical Disability Law, the Maryland Department of Disability, the Texas Journal on Civil Liberties and Civil Rights, and the Legal Times. For additional information about the symposium, contact: Lou Ann Blake, Law Symposium Coordinator National Federation of the Blind Telephone: (410) 659-9314, ext. 2221 E-mail: lblake at nfb.org I look forward to seeing many of you on April 17, 2009, for the second annual tenBroek Law Symposium. With Kind Regards, *********************** Daniel B. Frye, J.D. Associate Editor The Braille Monitor National Federation of the Blind Office of the President 1800 Johnson Street Baltimore, Maryland 21230 Telephone: (410) 659-9314 Ext. 2208 Mobile: (410) 241-7006 Fax: (410) 685-5653 Email: DFrye at nfb.org Web Address: www.nfb.org "Voice of the Nation's Blind" -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 3-30 2009 law sym promo e-mail.doc Type: application/msword Size: 29184 bytes Desc: 3-30 2009 law sym promo e-mail.doc URL: From mikefry79 at gmail.com Mon Mar 30 17:21:21 2009 From: mikefry79 at gmail.com (Michael Fry) Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2009 10:21:21 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Fw: Reading Rights Coalition Urges Authors to Allow Everyone Access to E-books In-Reply-To: <40DB1C3BA7A1407E83E3E7A85D0E24FE@labarre> References: <40DB1C3BA7A1407E83E3E7A85D0E24FE@labarre> Message-ID: <8c58e54a0903301021m44094b44q5bcb7e72ab209a59@mail.gmail.com> It is awesome that so many organizations are coalescing around such a noble and worthy cause. The Guilds position is immoral since it is infringes on human rights and dignity because it exploits, for profit, a vulnerable minority of the population. Requiring the disabled to 'register' - like some kind of inferior animal - in order to use new, free, and innovative text-to-speech technology places an unnecessary obstacle in path of people with disablities. This obstacle is desgined solely to exploit money from people without the time or inclination or, who are too embarrassed to register, as a text disabled individuals. They are attempting to bully extra profits out of people with disabilities. The Guild, comprised of enlightened and educated individuals, should be ashamed since there is no explanation other than immoral greed for their position. On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 9:16 AM, Scott C. LaBarre wrote: > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Freeh, Jessica > To: Alpidio Rolon ; Amy Buresh ; Anil Lewis ; Art Schreiber ; Beth Rival ; > Bob Kresmer ; Carl Jacobsen ; Cathy Jackson ; Charlene Smyth ; Christine G. > Hall ; Daniel Burke ; David Ticchi ; Don Galloway ; Donna Wood ; Elsie Lamp > ; Frank Lee ; Franklin Shiner ; Fred Schroeder ; Fred Wurtzel ; Gary Ray ; > Gary Wunder ; J.W. Smith ; James Antonacci ; James Broadnax ; Jennelle > Bichler ; Jennifer Dunnam ; Jerree Harris ; Joe Ruffalo ; John Batron ; John > Fritz ; Joyce Scanlan ; Kathy Davis ; Ken Rollman ; Kevan Worley ; Marie > Johnson ; Mary Willows ; Melissa Riccobono ; Michael Barber ; Michael > Freeman ; Nani Fife ; Pam Allen ; Parnell Diggs ; Patti Chang ; Richard > Bennett ; Richard Gaffney ; Ron Brown ; Ron Gardner ; Sam Gleese ; Scott > LaBarre ; Selena Sundling-Crawford ; Steven Priddle ; Terri Rupp ; Tommy > Craig > Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 7:09 AM > Subject: Reading Rights Coalition Urges Authors to Allow Everyone Access to > E-books > > > FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE > > > CONTACT: > > Chris Danielsen > > Director of Public Relations > > National Federation of the Blind > > (410) 659-9314, ext. 2330 > > (410) 262-1281 (Cell) > cdanielsen at nfb.org > > > > Reading Rights Coalition Urges Authors to Allow > Everyone Access to E-books > > > > Informational Protest to be Held at Authors Guild Headquarters > > > > New York City (March 30, 2009): The Reading Rights Coalition, which > represents people who cannot read print, will protest the threatened removal > of the text-to-speech function from e-books for the Amazon Kindle 2 outside > the Authors Guild headquarters in New York City at 31 East 32nd Street on > April 7, 2009, from noon to 2:00 p.m. The coalition includes the blind, > people with dyslexia, people with learning or processing issues, seniors > losing vision, people with spinal cord injuries, people recovering from > strokes, and many others for whom the addition of text-to-speech on the > Kindle 2 promised for the first time easy, mainstream access to over 245,000 > books. > > > > When Amazon released the Kindle 2 electronic book reader on February 9, > 2009, the company announced that the device would be able to read e-books > aloud using text-to-speech technology. Under pressure from the Authors > Guild, Amazon has announced that it will give authors and publishers the > ability to disable the text-to-speech function on any or all of their > e-books available for the Kindle 2. > > > > Dr. Marc Maurer, President of the National Federation of the Blind, said: > "The blind and print-disabled have for years utilized text-to-speech > technology to read and access information. As technology advances and more > books move from hard-copy print to electronic formats, people with print > disabilities have for the first time in history the opportunity to enjoy > access to books on an equal basis with those who can read print. Authors > and publishers who elect to disable text-to-speech for their e-books on the > Kindle 2 prevent people who are blind or have > > other print disabilities from reading these e-books. This is blatant > discrimination and we will not tolerate it." > > > > Mike Shuttic, president of the Association on Higher Education and > Disability (AHEAD), said: "AHEAD envisions educational and societal > environments that value disability and embody equality of opportunity. This > vision of AHEAD is directly aligned with the efforts of this coalition. > Although much rhetoric is made about potential obstacles and problems that > exist, the basic goal is clear and simple--access for everyone. And why > create something that prevents it?" > > > > Mitch Pomerantz, president of the American Council of the Blind, said: > "Removing the text-to-speech features closes the door on an innovative > technological solution that would make regular print books available to tens > of thousands of individuals who are blind or visually impaired." > > > > Andrew Imparato, President and Chief Executive Officer for the American > Association of People with Disabilities (AAPD), said: "It is outrageous when > a technology device shuts out people with all kinds of disabilities. AAPD > works to remove barriers to accessibility and usability in technology, and > we don't expect to see people with disabilities singled out by having to pay > more for access. New technologies, such as electronic books, should be > available to everyone regardless of disability." > > Paul Schroeder, vice president of programs and policy for the American > Foundation for the Blind, said: "Those of us with print disabilities have > long dreamed of a world in which books and media are available to us at the > same time as everyone else. The Kindle 2 offers that possibility for the > first time. We hope publishers and authors come to see that text-to-speech > is simply an alternative means of access to print." > > Dr. Peter Blanck, chairman and university professor at Burton Blatt > Institute at Syracuse University, said: "As electronic books become the > norm, denying universal access will result in more and more people with > disabilities being left out of education, employment, and the societal > conversation. We will all suffer from the absence of their participation > and contribution to the debates that occupy us as a society." > > > > George Kerscher of the Digital Accessible Information System (DAISY) > Consortium, said: "The DAISY Consortium envisions a world where people with > print disabilities have equal access to information and knowledge, without > delay or additional expense. Authors and publishers surely must share this > vision. Now that the issue of human rights has been explained, and the > opportunity for larger sales are known, I urge the Authors Guild to reverse > their position on text-to-speech and join us in actively encouraging all > publishers and reading technology developers to open the world of reading to > everybody. Authors, join us on the picket line." > > > > > > Steve Jacobs, president of IDEAL Group Inc., said, "Not only is > text-to-speech important to people who are blind, it is critical in > providing quality educations to millions of young people who rely on > text-to-speech to learn effectively. This includes students with autism, > learning disabilities, mobility disabilities, and cognitive disabilities > that impact their ability to acquire information with their eyes only. I > remain hopeful that the talented members of the Authors Guild come to > understand the potential negative impact of disabling the text-to-speech > function on their e-books and reconsider their position." > > > > Cynthia D. Waddell, executive director of the International Center for > Disability Resources on the Internet (ICDRI), said: "The mission of ICDRI > supports the removal of barriers in electronic and information technology > and the promotion of equal access. ICDRI welcomes the text-to-speech > functionality being offered by the Kindle 2 since it increases mainstream > access to books for the first time in history. We question why the Authors > Guild demands that it be turned it off since many more books would be sold > if text-to-speech was turned back on. Not only > > does this feature benefit persons with disabilities, but it also helps > persons for whom English is not their native language. In an increasingly > mobile society, flexibility in access to content improves the quality of > life for everyone." > > > > James Love, director of Knowledge Ecology International, said: "Knowing > full well that not everyone can see, the Authors Guild wants the right to be > seen, but not heard. By bullying Amazon to change the technology of Kindle > 2, the Authors Guild will either deny access to people who are disabled, or > make them pay more. By attacking disabled persons in this way, the Authors > Guild is attacking everyone who would otherwise benefit from the > contributions this community has the potential to offer." > > > > James H. Wendorf, executive director for the National Center for Learning > Disabilities, said: "Access to the written word is the cornerstone of > education and democracy. New technologies must serve individuals with > disabilities, not impede them. Our homes, schools and ultimately our > economy rely on support for the future, not discriminating practices and > beliefs from the past." > > While the Kindle 2 is not currently accessible to blind users, Amazon > recently announced on its Kindle 2 blog that it is currently at work on > making the device's navigational features accessible to the blind. > > > > The coalition includes: American Association of People with Disabilities, > American Council of the Blind, American Foundation for the Blind, > Association on Higher Education and Disability, Bazelon Center for Mental > Health Law, Burton Blatt Institute, Digital Accessible Information System > (DAISY) Consortium, Disability Rights Education and Defense Fund (DREDF), > IDEAL Group, Inc., International Center for Disability Resources on the > Internet, International Dyslexia Association, International Dyslexia > Association--New York Branch, Knowledge Ecology International, Learning > Disabilities Association of America, National Center for Learning > Disabilities, National Disability Rights Network, National Federation of the > Blind, NISH, and the National Spinal Cord Injury Association. In addition > to the April 7 New York City protest, the coalition will participate in the > Los Angeles Times Festival of Books on April 25-26. > > > > ### > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mikefry79%40gmail.com > From fwlopez at comcast.net Mon Mar 30 17:36:27 2009 From: fwlopez at comcast.net (Fred Wright Lopez) Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2009 10:36:27 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] tenBroek Law Symposium--Still Time to Register In-Reply-To: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6B953E11@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local> References: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6B953E11@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local> Message-ID: I am an attorney member of the Blind Lawyers Association, although not an NFB member I first would like to thank you for the genrerous offer you have extended with regard to loggingassistance for the tenBroek Law Sympsium. Transportation costs are certaintly a disincentive to participation in this education conference. However, I am at a lost to understand why there was no effort to provide "Web Casting" of this very important legal training session. I reside in California and accordingly the length of time taken to travel to and from the conference site is also a consideration. I for one would very like to benefit from the tenbroek seminar but can not afford the time away from other pressing legal obligations. Web casting of the event would provide the opportunity for many of us to participate. Is there any possibility that the symposium can be web cast? Sincerely, Fred W. Lopez On Mar 30, 2009, at 9:19 AM, Frye, Dan wrote: > List Colleagues: > > Lou Ann Blake, the tenBroek Law Symposium coordinator on the NFB > national staff, has asked that I post this reminder flyer once again > to > members of the blind and visually impaired legal community > subscribed to > this list. In addition to everything Lou Ann says in the following > announcement (which is also attached as a Word Document for your > convenience), I am reasonably confident that some accommodations > here at > the National Center for the Blind can be made available for our > members > and friends who would come except for the additional expense > associated > with lodging. If free sleeping accommodations here at the National > Center for the Blind would make your participation more likely, please > contact Lou Ann Blake to discuss arrangements. As stated in the > announcement, other financial concessions associated with the tenBroek > Law Symposium can also be made in certain circumstances. Lou Ann has > assembled a high-caliber array of program presenters, and we want to > make certain that people can benefit from this important symposium. > See > the announcement pasted below and attached to this message for further > information: > > There's Still Time to Register and Reserve Your Room at the Holiday > Inn > Inner Harbor > > > > For the > > > > 2009 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium > > New Perspectives on Disability Law: Advancing the Right to Live in the > World > > > > > > Be sure to let your colleagues and friends know that the deadline to > register for this exciting and powerful symposium is April 10, 2009, > and > that the cut-off date for reserving rooms at the Holiday Inn Inner > Harbor has been extended to April 3, 2009. Don't miss this > opportunity > to voice your concerns to Kareem Dale, Special Assistant to President > Obama for Disability Policy, at the 2009 Jacobus tenBroek Disability > Law > Symposium on April 17th at the National Federation of the Blind > Jernigan > Institute in Baltimore, Maryland. Mr. Dale will speak on the Obama > administration's policies on disability issues for approximately > thirty > minutes followed by a forty-five minute question and answer > session. In > addition to Mr. Dale, the presenters for the 2009 symposium are: > > > > * Maura Healey, Assistant Attorney General and Chief, Office of > Civil Rights, Commonwealth of Massachusetts; > * Amy Robertson and Timothy Fox, Principals, Fox & Robertson, > P.C.; > * Gerard Quinn, Professor of Law, National University of Ireland, > Galway; > * Katherine Guernsey, International Lawyer and Adjunct Professor, > American University School of International Service; > * Samuel Bagenstos, Visiting Professor of Law, UCLA Law School; > * Christine Griffin, Commissioner, United States Equal Employment > Opportunity Commission; and > * Peter Blanck, University Professor and Chairman, Burton Blatt > Institute at Syracuse University. > > > > Ari Ne'eman, founding president of the Autistic Self-Advocacy Network, > will give the luncheon keynote address. > > > > To view the full agenda, register online, or download the registration > form to register by mail or fax, visit the symposium Web page at > http://www.nfb.org/nfb/Law_Symposium.asp. Hotel information may > also be > found on the symposium Web page. The deadline to make room > reservations > at the Holiday Inn Inner Harbor has been extended to 3:00 pm, April 3, > 2009. > > > > The registration fee is $150; students may register for $20. A > limited > number of scholarships to cover the registration fee will be available > to individuals with demonstrated financial need. Don't miss this > exciting opportunity to interact with leading scholars, government > officials, and advocates and to make your voice heard. The deadline > to > register is April 10, 2009. > > > > Symposium attendees will be provided documentation for CLE credit. > Individuals will be responsible for filing the application for CLE > credit with their state board. > > > > The 2009 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium is sponsored by the > National Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute, the American Bar > Association Commission on Mental and Physical Disability Law, the > Maryland Department of Disability, the Texas Journal on Civil > Liberties > and Civil Rights, and the Legal Times. > > > > For additional information about the symposium, contact: > > > > Lou Ann Blake, Law Symposium Coordinator > > National Federation of the Blind > > Telephone: (410) 659-9314, ext. 2221 > > E-mail: lblake at nfb.org > > > > I look forward to seeing many of you on April 17, 2009, for the second > annual tenBroek Law Symposium. > > > > With Kind Regards, > > > > > *********************** > Daniel B. Frye, J.D. > Associate Editor > The Braille Monitor > National Federation of the Blind > Office of the President > 1800 Johnson Street > Baltimore, Maryland 21230 > Telephone: (410) 659-9314 Ext. 2208 > Mobile: (410) 241-7006 > Fax: (410) 685-5653 > Email: DFrye at nfb.org > Web Address: www.nfb.org > "Voice of the Nation's Blind" > > <3-30 2009 law sym promo e- > mail.doc>_______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/fwlopez%40comcast.net From william.odonnell1 at yahoo.com Mon Mar 30 17:58:04 2009 From: william.odonnell1 at yahoo.com (William ODonnell) Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2009 10:58:04 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [blindlaw] NO MORE EXCUSES - THE BLIND HAVE RIGHTS TO "HEAR WHAT OTHERS SEE" CHALLENGE 09 Message-ID: <835440.21854.qm@web30901.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Stop looking for a free pass or a handout. So what; we are not equally able to utilize technology, Move on. You are not saying anything new. If this attitude persists, one might be better off sitting home collecting a check complaining that they are disabled. Stop collecting checks, go out and work. Prove yourselves to others this is the only way one will get ahead. People said that some things would never be possible, look at Barak Obama as a prime example. He proved himself, stood up for his beliefs, and was a success. He lives proof that anyone is able to do something that they truly dream and believe in. It would be great to see technology be accessible; however, the unfortunate reality is that the market for the blind is small in comparison to the large markets for the sighted and funding is based on greater need. Let us face a harsh reality that the fundamentals of the USA are based on majority and major capital as well and the sightless are in a minority. Remember that America is still grappling with the old fundamentals of our past. I say this because a person’s appearance supersedes there fundamental needs if you show one that you are blind, they prejudge you. This is due to a lack of education. Thus, the small man is undermined and ignored since the majority of the population is unaffected. We live in a society where people think and act for today, not tomarro. Everything is taken for granted and no one thinks of anyone else, they only think of their selfish greed. People do not realize what they have until it is gone and they see how they are affected. Also, remember that the ADA is just 19 years old. We are not as advanced as the rest of the world when it comes to access and technology. Hopefully, this will change in the coming decades. Most importantly, remember that attitudes and people do not respond to radical change. Change has to come slowly for people’s adjustment. Stop complaining about what you do not have and make change. Become an innovator instead of the hopeless blind person. Remember the movie blindness and why the NFB protested it because we are not beggars and not looking for handouts. Your conversation here is both a personal insult to a fellow blind person; most importantly, you, the writer. Change does not come over night and Rhome was not built in a day. --- On Sat, 3/28/09, kdb wrote: > From: kdb > Subject: [blindlaw] NO MORE EXCUSES - THE BLIND HAVE RIGHTS TO "HEAR WHAT OTHERS SEE" CHALLENGE 09 > To: "David Musial" , "Robert Wohler" , "Daniel Drabik" , blindlaw at nfbnet.org > Cc: "Dennis Blind Chef DiBona" , "Dennis Blind Chef DiBona" > Date: Saturday, March 28, 2009, 4:17 PM > DEAR EVERYONE WHO CARES! > re: Author's Guild/ Amazon Actions and Excuses.... > > So few seem to really understand, or rather choose instead > to ignore, the fact that a product  "VISUALLY" offered > to us as consumers does nothing for the large segment of our > population who are of low vision or blind. > Instead it effectively continues the long time practice > of  discrimination and essentially disallows the > visually disabled from active participation in what all > others who can see are offered. .. > The point remains easy to recognize but seemingly easier to > forget: for most visually disabled individuals, > their ears aretheir eyes. > So,  Please help others to understand this as you > will gain better insight into the issues after reading the > digest contained below following this message and challenge > which concerns an attempt to organize a protest > against  AMAZON.com & the Author's Guild.. > Please continue reading and decide if you will join this > challenge by signing and sending this on to gain support and > possibly convince an attorney or lawyer  group to  > take this human rights issue through those almighty > courthouse doors. > Then please do scroll below the signatures to read the > digest itself  from the  mighty and > wonderful  BlindLaw Yahoo group,  There you > will  learn of dates of the protest in NY City planned > for April 7, 2009.  > This is the larger challenge however:  via a class > action case  we propose a suit to prohibit all > communication, written notification companies and producers > of any type of communication devise or software etc., > especially phones, fax machines, all cell phone/tech > equipment, and all other products designed to communicate > and / or offer communication messages and methods, so > production/designer companies refrain  from further > discrimination against the blind and low visioned > population. > It is proposed that by establishing this as a requirement > during all communication devises production and designing it > so  accountability is built into the law to prove that > all devises etc. are produced with text to speech/voice > recognition and voice command abilities so the ease of use > feature activates from start up through usage AND > established reasonable costs for the devises are based on > the  average income levels of the disabled. Also > essential to this effort will be to establishing the > doctor's authority to write Rx's for essential communication > devises, these may vary and will need to be defined in the > case, and require insurance company/medicaid and > medicare,  approvals to pay for the devise or > equipment. > This elimination of an effective equally accessible > communication system via text to speech/voice commands and > voice recognition software, already developed and in > operation with screen reader abilities, must be applied and > useable - as well as user friendly - on all platforms > including Apple/mac product - ie.. the latest ipod shuffle > with reading aloud abilities throughout every menu and sub > menu  thus making it useable by the blind and visually > impaired! > This simple system is essential and finally available to > the sightless, those who so often, too often,  suffer > the indignities of a profit seeking - world. A world where > others MAKE THE DECISIONS TO HOLD back the rights of the > disabled yet make profits often on them by selling them the > only products available that are much too difficult for them > to easily operate let alone, set up to use! > And then, too often , the cost is prohibitive for so many! > So why is  a universally accessible communication > policy and system that assures equal access via these > technologies and software still not equally and always > available to the blind and low visioned?   IS > MONEY THE EXCUSE??  Too expensive to produce? Can't use > that excuse as it is already out there and has been for > years. So,  WHAT OTHER REASON COULD IT BE TO NOT have > speaking abilities, voice command, voice recognition > software built in to the equipment (like  the easy to > use VoiceOver in mac products)  and easily accessible > to all visually disabled people? > These are the people who require it to have equal access to > all that is offered visually to the sighted. >   AND YES!  Braille counts but braille is ONLY > ONE WAY AND IS, TO MOST IN TODAYS WORLD, NO LONGER THE > EASIEST METHOD.  For the deaf and blind perhaps but not > so any longer for the Visually Disabled who are able to > hear!!! > Some items that are available are so costly the expense > prohibits many to secure the services. And this is called > accessibility?   I think not!  This > seems to remain a legal/human rights for the disabled ADA > issue and also seems to indicate it really  should be a > class action suit leading to the highest level so ALL > equipment is made speakable and is useable at a FREE or very > reasonable cost to the low visioned and blind users. > It applies to all aspects of communication devises such as > TV and movies, VDRs , PDAs, clocks, watches, ANYTHING others > can see to communicate  thoughts or facts and knowledge > that the low visioned or blind cannot!!! > Why does NOT that make sense to everyone? >   Money ?  That is not an acceptable answer. > Consider:  Years ago, the deaf fought for hearing > aides. And cost was a factor until the fight was won and > hearing devices where on the market until the demand was > satisfied and costs went down to a reasonable level - in > most cases. Insurances were accessed and the story goes on. > > All must have access  - equally!  Not > selectively! > The blind / low visioned MUST have the ability to have all > aspects of communication devices spoken aloud to them, > especially land line phone caller ID by name and number, > phone buttons, all sub-menus within the system, remotes and > all sub menus within their oiperating suystems.. the list > goes on forever. > My long time hope remains that a caring dedicated lawyer > will take on this noble cause and keep the world informed as > it progresses!   Including a text to speech > method so the blind too can be aware of what is happening > around them as well as what may effect them and can then > allow then  the option of choice to determine if they > want to participate in that effort or act on the information > learned or not. > Copywrite issues are critical but human rights far exceed > them. How can one be part of an effort - perhaps to decide > to purchase the book or music or movie etc. if one is not > able to understand the communication regarding them because > it is only offered VISUALLY? > SIMPLY PUT,DESIGNERS AND PRODUCERS OF EQUIPMENT MUST USE > SOFTWARE TO USE THE AUDITORY CHANNEL OF THE VISUALLY > DISABLED SO THEY TOO ARE INCLUDED IN THE POPULATION. > That is it in a nutshell. Now we must fight to get it > unilaterally applied to everything. If you agree or disagree > this will not be criticized as we all learn form others and > our errors are often times corrected through discourse and > debate. It is asked that you do so politely, however. > Please feel free to comment to help move this noble effort > forward. > Please help the Blind  and Visually Disabled gain > equal access to today's technologically advanced world > similar to the level those of us who "see with our eyes" are > able to do! > Thanks for spreading the word. > PS - An aside but a notable one: > Seems as if a huge part of  the profit producing > market is being left out of the "BRILLIANT" marketing > strategies of communication products, does it not?  > Foolish move. > > Tired of excuses, > FEEL FREE TO  SEND ANY PART OR ALL OF THIS PROTEST AS > YOUR OWN WITH ANY CHANGES YOU FEEL WOULD HELP TO INFLUENCE > THOSE IN AUTHORITY WITH THE POWER TO CHANGE THIS SITUATION > AND GRANT THESE BASIC  RIGHTS TO THE BLIND AND VISUALLY > IMPAIRED. > YES WE CAN!  WE CAN CHANGE THIS!... JOIN THIS EFFORT > FOR OUR SIGHTLESS RELATIVES AND FRIENDS, PLEASE. > AS I SO SADLY LEARNED, TOMORROW BLINDNESS COULD VERY > EASILY AFFECT AND /OR  INCLUDE YOU! > We are 'Tired of Excuses", > ***PLEASE SCROLL AND READ BELOW  OUR E- SIGNATURES/ > EFFORTS FROM THE BLIND LAW DIGEST: > KATHY AND DENNIS  DIBONA > ALICE DRABIK > ROSE TURNER > kdbenterprises at yahoo.comhttp://fl.local.yahoo.biz/kdbenterprises/index.html > From: "blindlaw-request at nfbnet.org" > > To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org > Sent: Saturday, March 28, 2009 1:00:12 PM > Subject: blindlaw Digest, Vol 58, Issue 28 > Send blindlaw mailing list submissions to >     blindlaw at nfbnet.org > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' > to >     blindlaw-request at nfbnet.org > Today's Topics: > Informational Picketing Against Authors Guild in New  >   York > Message: 1 > Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 15:40:37 -0500 > From: David Andrews > Subject: [blindlaw] Informational Picketing Against Authors > Guild in >     New    York City > To: david.andrews at nfbnet.org > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; > format=flowed > > > >From Chris Danielson: > > Dear Fellow Federationists: > > As you may already know, Amazon, Inc.. released the newest > version of its > > e-book reader, the Kindle, on February 9 of this > year.  The Kindle 2 > > includes a feature that allows e-books downloaded to it to > be read aloud. > > The Authors Guild has objected to this feature because it > believes these > > e-books are licensed only for visual display, and under > pressure from the > > Guild, Amazon has decided to allow authors and publishers > to decide which > > books can be read aloud by this device.  Naturally, > this is a blow to blind > > people and others with print disabilities who can benefit > from the > > text-to-speech feature and who would love to be able to > purchase books and > > start reading them immediately for the first time in > history.  For this > > reason the National Federation of the Blind has joined with > other > > organizations representing people who cannot use print > effectively to fight > > the Authors Guild. > > We plan to kick off our public education campaign to > increase public > > pressure on the Authors Guild to reverse its stance with an > informational > > protest in front of the Guild?s headquarters in New York > City.  This picket > > will take place on Tuesday, April 7, from noon until 2:00 > p.m.  I am writing > > to you in hopes that you can organize members to come to > this protest.  A > > number of Federationists from Maryland are coming and we > expect > > participation from other organizations in the coalition, > but it would be > > very helpful if those of you with easy access to New York > City would help us > > by providing more picketers.  It is extremely > important that we make a > > strong impression on the Authors Guild and the media so > that our message > > will be heard. > > In the next few days you will receive more communications > with additional > > logistical details, as well as more information about our > position and > > suggestions on how to respond to questions from the > media.  In the meantime, > > if you have additional questions, please do not hesitate to > contact me.  As > > soon as you have an idea of how many people may be able to > come to this > > event, please provide that information to John Par? by > calling 410-659-9314, > > ext. 2227, or by e-mailing jpare at nfb.org.  > Thank you for your assistance in > > this important matter. > > Sincerely: > > Chris Danielsen > > Christopher S. Danielsen > > Director of Public Relations > > NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND > > > David Andrews and white cane Harry. > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2009 00:36:27 -0700 > From: > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Informational Picketing Against > Authors Guild >     in    NewYork City > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Message-ID: <94D47A96FA004126B3FFB96F0B9C6F95 at spike> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; > charset="iso-8859-1"; >     reply-type=response > > If the legislative alert system previously discussed on > this list hade been > implemented members from all over the country could respond > with emails or > faxes to the Authors Guild to address this issue. This > would be much more > effective then to expect Federations spending hundreds of > dollars on plain > fare and hotel accommodations for this cause. While the > information > definitely needs to be provided there are much more > effective ways for this > to be done. > Charles L. Krugman, M.S.W., ParalegalPresident, > NFB of California Central Valley Chapter > 1237 P Street > Fresno ca 93721 > 559-266-9237 > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "David Andrews" > To: > Sent: Friday, March 27, 2009 1:40 PM > Subject: [blindlaw] Informational Picketing Against Authors > Guild in NewYork > City > > > > >From Chris Danielson: > > Dear Fellow Federationists: > > As you may already know, Amazon, Inc. released the newest > version of its > > e-book reader, the Kindle, on February 9 of this > year.  The Kindle 2 > > includes a feature that allows e-books downloaded to it to > be read aloud. > > The Authors Guild has objected to this feature because it > believes these > > e-books are licensed only for visual display, and under > pressure from the > > Guild, Amazon has decided to allow authors and publishers > to decide which > > books can be read aloud by this device.  Naturally, > this is a blow to blind > > people and others with print disabilities who can benefit > from the > > text-to-speech feature and who would love to be able to > purchase books and > > start reading them immediately for the first time in > history.  For this > > reason the National Federation of the Blind has joined with > other > > organizations representing people who cannot use print > effectively to fight > > the Authors Guild. > > We plan to kick off our public education campaign to > increase public > > pressure on the Authors Guild to reverse its stance with an > informational > > protest in front of the Guild's headquarters in New York > City.  This picket > > will take place on Tuesday, April 7, from noon until 2:00 > p.m.  I am writing > > to you in hopes that you can organize members to come to > this protest.  A > > number of Federationists from Maryland are coming and we > expect > > participation from other organizations in the coalition, > but it would be > > very helpful if those of you with easy access to New York > City would help us > > by providing more picketers.  It is extremely > important that we make a > > strong impression on the Authors Guild and the media so > that our message > > will be heard. > > In the next few days you will receive more communications > with additional > > logistical details, as well as more information about our > position and > > suggestions on how to respond to questions from the > media.  In the meantime, > > if you have additional questions, please do not hesitate to > contact me.  As > > soon as you have an idea of how many people may be able to > come to this > > event, please provide that information to John Par? by > calling 410-659-9314, > > ext. 2227, or by e-mailing jpare at nfb.org.  > Thank you for your assistance in > > this important matter. > > Sincerely: > > Chris Danielsen > > Christopher S. Danielsen > > Director of Public Relations > > NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND > > > David Andrews and white cane Harry. > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2009 06:00:32 -0300 > From: "E.J. Zufelt" > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Informational Picketing Against > Authors Guild >     in    NewYork City > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Message-ID: <4D5D1503-3D66-471B-A599-6FEEF84E6840 at zufelt.ca> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; > format=flowed; delsp=yes > > Good morning, > > My concern with this action is whether or not the opinion > expressed is  > representative of NFB membership.  I for one believe > that Amazon is  > well within their reasonable right to block this > functionality from  > titles on their site to perserve the authors rights to > their  > intellectual property. > > Perhaps a better approach would be for Amazon to be > required to make  > an unlocked version of the texts available to individuals > who register  > as text impaired.  Understandably this method would > have several  > problems that would have to be negotiated between all > concerned parties. > > Just my two cents, > Everett > > > On 28-Mar-09, at 4:36 AM, > wrote: > > > If the legislative alert system previously discussed > on this list  > > hade been implemented members from all over the > country could  > > respond with emails or faxes to the Authors Guild to > address this  > > issue. This would be much more effective then to > expect Federations  > > spending hundreds of dollars on plain fare and hotel > accommodations  > > for this cause. While the information definitely needs > to be  > > provided there are much more effective ways for this > to be done. > > Charles L. Krugman, M.S.W., ParalegalPresident, > > NFB of California Central Valley Chapter > > 1237 P Street > > Fresno ca 93721 > > 559-266-9237 > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Andrews" > > > To: > > Sent: Friday, March 27, 2009 1:40 PM > > Subject: [blindlaw] Informational Picketing Against > Authors Guild in  > > NewYork City > > > > > > > > >From Chris Danielson: > > > > Dear Fellow Federationists: > > > > As you may already know, Amazon, Inc. released the > newest version of  > > its > > > > e-book reader, the Kindle, on February 9 of this > year.  The Kindle 2 > > > > includes a feature that allows e-books downloaded to > it to be read  > > aloud. > > > > The Authors Guild has objected to this feature because > it believes  > > these > > > > e-books are licensed only for visual display, and > under pressure  > > from the > > > > Guild, Amazon has decided to allow authors and > publishers to decide  > > which > > > > books can be read aloud by this device.  > Naturally, this is a blow  > > to blind > > > > people and others with print disabilities who can > benefit from the > > > > text-to-speech feature and who would love to be able > to purchase  > > books and > > > > start reading them immediately for the first time in > history.  For  > > this > > > > reason the National Federation of the Blind has joined > with other > > > > organizations representing people who cannot use print > effectively  > > to fight > > > > the Authors Guild. > > > > We plan to kick off our public education campaign to > increase public > > > > pressure on the Authors Guild to reverse its stance > with an  > > informational > > > > protest in front of the Guild's headquarters in New > York City.  This  > > picket > > > > will take place on Tuesday, April 7, from noon until > 2:00 p.m.  I am  > > writing > > > > to you in hopes that you can organize members to come > to this  > > protest.  A > > > > number of Federationists from Maryland are coming and > we expect > > > > participation from other organizations in the > coalition, but it  > > would be > > > > very helpful if those of you with easy access to New > York City would  > > help us > > > > by providing more picketers.  It is extremely > important that we make a > > > > strong impression on the Authors Guild and the media > so that our  > > message > > > > will be heard. > > > > In the next few days you will receive more > communications with  > > additional > > > > logistical details, as well as more information about > our position and > > > > suggestions on how to respond to questions from the > media.  In the  > > meantime, > > > > if you have additional questions, please do not > hesitate to contact  > > me.  As > > > > soon as you have an idea of how many people may be > able to come to  > > this > > > > event, please provide that information to John Par? by > calling  > > 410-659-9314, > > > > ext. 2227, or by e-mailing jpare at nfb.org.  > Thank you for your  > > assistance in > > > > this important matter. > > > > Sincerely: > > > > Chris Danielsen > > > > Christopher S. Danielsen > > > > Director of Public Relations > > > > NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND > > > > > > David Andrews and white cane Harry. > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > blindlaw mailing list > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info  > > for blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > blindlaw mailing list > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info  > > for blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/everett%40zufelt.ca > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2009 07:16:27 -0400 > From: "Chris Danielsen" > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Informational Picketing Against > Authors Guild >     inNewYork City > To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" > Message-ID: > <50AF7F0597184596939D794676C898AF at Scorpio13> > Content-Type: text/plain;    > charset="iso-8859-1" > > Hi Everett, > > First, let me say that not only are Federation members > supportive of this > action, but we have in fact reached out to other disability > organizations > representing individuals with spinal cord injuries, > dyslexia and other > learning disabilities, and other print disabilities and > they are all in > agreement with this position. Second, the issue here is not > whether authors > have the right to control their intellectual property, > which they most > certainly do. The issue is whether they can parse up the > uses of an e-book > that an individual has already paid for and claim that each > potential use of > it is an intellectual property right. > > The Authors Guild is upset because Amazon added a > text-to-speech function to > its Kindle 2, which means that downloaded e-books can be > read aloud. > Initially, Amazon did not plan to include the ability to > disable that > function; the company only backed down when the Authors > Guild raised a > stink. But the fact is that Amazon was initially legally > correct to believe > that there was no inherent intellectual property right > involved. The reading > aloud of text that one has purchased, in private, is not a > copyright > violation but a fair use. To argue otherwise is to argue > that parents who > read bedtime stories to their kids, or for that matter > blind people who have > a print textbook read aloud to them by a reader (human or > machine), are > violating copyright law. This is ridiculous and every > copyright lawyer worth > his or her salt knows it; even the Authors Guild is now > backing down from > it, arguing instead that the terms of their contracts > prohibit this use. It > makes absolutely no difference whether the reading aloud is > done by a human > or a machine, as long as there is no "public performance" > or derivative work > created. > > The Authors Guild wants what you have suggested--a > registration system for > people with disabilities, who would then be allowed to > unlock the > text-to-speech function. But more than just blind people > are affected here, > and many of them have disabilities that are not tied to a > specific organic > cause and can't be medically diagnosed. Besides, who would > administer this > system? Amazon? The Authors Guild? And more to the point, > why should > disabled readers have to register to read a book that we > have paid good > money for? The Guild's position is tantamount to saying, > "You can buy our > e-books but you can't read them without clearance from us." > It is > unacceptable and discriminatory. > > Bottom line; Everyone who pays good money for an > e-book--which is not > inherently either a visual or audio work and could > conceivably be converted > into even more formats, including Braille--should be able > to read it in > whatever form works best for them. The authors have a > chance here to get > money from the disability community--a revenue stream > they've never had > before since right now we get a lot of our reading material > from free or > subscription services like NLS or Bookshare. But our money > apparently isn't > good enough for them. Sure, they're motivated not by > keeping us out but by > trying to keep out the sighted, in order to make sure that > the sighted > either pay a surcharge for text-to-speech or buy the much > more expensive > audio book version. But that's just greed, not an > intellectual property > dispute. And disabled people who have legitimate reading > problems but can't > "prove" them to the satisfaction of the Authors Guild will > also have to pay > that surcharge. This is wrong on many levels and it's lousy > business too. I > hope that in light of all this you will consider supporting > our action. > > Library services for the blind and others have their place, > but the advent > of the e-book means that we no longer have to be locked > into those systems > and potentially will have access to a much broader array of > literary > content. This has been the dream of the blind and others > with print > disabilities for generations. We are not going to let a > knee-jerk, poorly > thought out reaction from some authors organization take > that dream away. > > Chris > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] > On > Behalf Of E.J. Zufelt > Sent: Saturday, March 28, 2009 5:01 AM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Informational Picketing Against > Authors Guild > inNewYork City > > Good morning, > > My concern with this action is whether or not the opinion > expressed is  > representative of NFB membership.  I for one believe > that Amazon is  > well within their reasonable right to block this > functionality from  > titles on their site to perserve the authors rights to > their  > intellectual property. > > Perhaps a better approach would be for Amazon to be > required to make  > an unlocked version of the texts available to individuals > who register  > as text impaired.  Understandably this method would > have several  > problems that would have to be negotiated between all > concerned parties. > > Just my two cents, > Everett > > > On 28-Mar-09, at 4:36 AM, > wrote: > > > If the legislative alert system previously discussed > on this list  > > hade been implemented members from all over the > country could  > > respond with emails or faxes to the Authors Guild to > address this  > > issue. This would be much more effective then to > expect Federations  > > spending hundreds of dollars on plain fare and hotel > accommodations  > > for this cause. While the information definitely needs > to be  > > provided there are much more effective ways for this > to be done. > > Charles L. Krugman, M.S.W., ParalegalPresident, > > NFB of California Central Valley Chapter > > 1237 P Street > > Fresno ca 93721 > > 559-266-9237 > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Andrews" > > > To: > > Sent: Friday, March 27, 2009 1:40 PM > > Subject: [blindlaw] Informational Picketing Against > Authors Guild in  > > NewYork City > > > > > > > > >From Chris Danielson: > > > > Dear Fellow Federationists: > > > > As you may already know, Amazon, Inc. released the > newest version of  > > its > > > > e-book reader, the Kindle, on February 9 of this > year.  The Kindle 2 > > > > includes a feature that allows e-books downloaded to > it to be read  > > aloud. > > > > The Authors Guild has objected to this feature because > it believes  > > these > > > > e-books are licensed only for visual display, and > under pressure  > > from the > > > > Guild, Amazon has decided to allow authors and > publishers to decide  > > which > > > > books can be read aloud by this device.  > Naturally, this is a blow  > > to blind > > > > people and others with print disabilities who can > benefit from the > > > > text-to-speech feature and who would love to be able > to purchase  > > books and > > > > start reading them immediately for the first time in > history.  For  > > this > > > > reason the National Federation of the Blind has joined > with other > > > > organizations representing people who cannot use print > effectively  > > to fight > > > > the Authors Guild. > > > > We plan to kick off our public education campaign to > increase public > > > > pressure on the Authors Guild to reverse its stance > with an  > > informational > > > > protest in front of the Guild's headquarters in New > York City.  This  > > picket > > > > will take place on Tuesday, April 7, from noon until > 2:00 p.m.  I am  > > writing > > > > to you in hopes that you can organize members to come > to this  > > protest.  A > > > > number of Federationists from Maryland are coming and > we expect > > > > participation from other organizations in the > coalition, but it  > > would be > > > > very helpful if those of you with easy access to New > York City would  > > help us > > > > by providing more picketers.  It is extremely > important that we make a > > > > strong impression on the Authors Guild and the media > so that our  > > message > > > > will be heard. > > > > In the next few days you will receive more > communications with  > > additional > > > > logistical details, as well as more information about > our position and > > > > suggestions on how to respond to questions from the > media.  In the  > > meantime, > > > > if you have additional questions, please do not > hesitate to contact  > > me.  As > > > > soon as you have an idea of how many people may be > able to come to  > > this > > > > event, please provide that information to John Par? by > calling  > > 410-659-9314, > > > > ext. 2227, or by e-mailing jpare at nfb.org.  > Thank you for your  > > assistance in > > > > this important matter. > > > > Sincerely: > > > > Chris Danielsen > > > > Christopher S. Danielsen > > > > Director of Public Relations > > > > NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND > > > > > > David Andrews and white cane Harry. > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > blindlaw mailing list > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info  > > for blindlaw: > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob > al.net > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > blindlaw mailing list > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info  > > for blindlaw: > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/everett%40zufelt.c > a > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. > com > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version > of virus signature > database 3971 (20090328) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version > of virus signature > database 3972 (20090328) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2009 09:25:11 -0300 > From: "E.J. Zufelt" > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Informational Picketing Against > Authors Guild >     inNewYork City > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; > format=flowed; delsp=yes > > Good morning, > > Interesting, I think that the word that persuades me here > is  > performance.  The argument then, as I understand it, > is that the  > reading aloud, by a person or machine, of a work differs > from an audio  > book that is commercially produced that would be considered > a  > performance of the work.  I think that I can accept > that to be a  > reasonable distinction between the two..  So, even if > the ability to  > have a work read aloud impacts negatively on an authors > return on  > investment, which it may not, it is as a result of evolving > technology  > and is something that the authoring industry will need to > deal with in  > the same manner as other industries must deal with the > potential  > negative economic impact of evolving technology. > > Thanks for your thorough explanation, > Everett > > > On 28-Mar-09, at 8:16 AM, Chris Danielsen wrote: > > > Hi Everett, > > > > First, let me say that not only are Federation members > supportive of  > > this > > action, but we have in fact reached out to other > disability  > > organizations > > representing individuals with spinal cord injuries, > dyslexia and other > > learning disabilities, and other print disabilities > and they are all  > > in > > agreement with this position. Second, the issue here > is not whether  > > authors > > have the right to control their intellectual property, > which they most > > certainly do. The issue is whether they can parse up > the uses of an  > > e-book > > that an individual has already paid for and claim that > each  > > potential use of > > it is an intellectual property right. > > > > The Authors Guild is upset because Amazon added a > text-to-speech  > > function to > > its Kindle 2, which means that downloaded e-books can > be read aloud. > > Initially, Amazon did not plan to include the ability > to disable that > > function; the company only backed down when the > Authors Guild raised a > > stink. But the fact is that Amazon was initially > legally correct to  > > believe > > that there was no inherent intellectual property right > involved. The  > > reading > > aloud of text that one has purchased, in private, is > not a copyright > > violation but a fair use. To argue otherwise is to > argue that  > > parents who > > read bedtime stories to their kids, or for that matter > blind people  > > who have > > a print textbook read aloud to them by a reader (human > or machine),  > > are > > violating copyright law. This is ridiculous and every > copyright  > > lawyer worth > > his or her salt knows it; even the Authors Guild is > now backing down  > > from > > it, arguing instead that the terms of their contracts > prohibit this  > > use. It > > makes absolutely no difference whether the reading > aloud is done by  > > a human > > or a machine, as long as there is no "public > performance" or  > > derivative work > > created. > > > > The Authors Guild wants what you have suggested--a > registration  > > system for > > people with disabilities, who would then be allowed to > unlock the > > text-to-speech function. But more than just blind > people are  > > affected here, > > and many of them have disabilities that are not tied > to a specific  > > organic > > cause and can't be medically diagnosed. Besides, who > would  > > administer this > > system? Amazon? The Authors Guild? And more to the > point, why should > > disabled readers have to register to read a book that > we have paid  > > good > > money for? The Guild's position is tantamount to > saying, "You can  > > buy our > > e-books but you can't read them without clearance from > us." It is > > unacceptable and discriminatory. > > > > Bottom line; Everyone who pays good money for an > e-book--which is not > > inherently either a visual or audio work and could > conceivably be  > > converted > > into even more formats, including Braille--should be > able to read it  > > in > > whatever form works best for them. The authors have a > chance here to  > > get > > money from the disability community--a revenue stream > they've never  > > had > > before since right now we get a lot of our reading > material from  > > free or > > subscription services like NLS or Bookshare. But our > money  > > apparently isn't > > good enough for them. Sure, they're motivated not by > keeping us out  > > but by > > trying to keep out the sighted, in order to make sure > that the sighted > > either pay a surcharge for text-to-speech or buy the > much more  > > expensive > > audio book version. But that's just greed, not an > intellectual  > > property > > dispute. And disabled people who have legitimate > reading problems  > > but can't > > "prove" them to the satisfaction of the Authors Guild > will also have  > > to pay > > that surcharge. This is wrong on many levels and it's > lousy business  > > too. I > > hope that in light of all this you will consider > supporting our  > > action. > > > > Library services for the blind and others have their > place, but the  > > advent > > of the e-book means that we no longer have to be > locked into those  > > systems > > and potentially will have access to a much broader > array of literary > > content. This has been the dream of the blind and > others with print > > disabilities for generations. We are not going to let > a knee-jerk,  > > poorly > > thought out reaction from some authors organization > take that dream  > > away. > > > > Chris > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:blindlaw- > > bounces at nfbnet.org] > On > > Behalf Of E.J. Zufelt > > Sent: Saturday, March 28, 2009 5:01 AM > > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Informational Picketing > Against Authors Guild > > inNewYork City > > > > Good morning, > > > > My concern with this action is whether or not the > opinion expressed is > > representative of NFB membership.  I for one > believe that Amazon is > > well within their reasonable right to block this > functionality from > > titles on their site to perserve the authors rights to > their > > intellectual property. > > > > Perhaps a better approach would be for Amazon to be > required to make > > an unlocked version of the texts available to > individuals who register > > as text impaired.  Understandably this method > would have several > > problems that would have to be negotiated between all > concerned  > > parties. > > > > Just my two cents, > > Everett > > > > > > On 28-Mar-09, at 4:36 AM, > wrote: > > > >> If the legislative alert system previously > discussed on this list > >> hade been implemented members from all over the > country could > >> respond with emails or faxes to the Authors Guild > to address this > >> issue. This would be much more effective then to > expect Federations > >> spending hundreds of dollars on plain fare and > hotel accommodations > >> for this cause. While the information definitely > needs to be > >> provided there are much more effective ways for > this to be done. > >> Charles L. Krugman, M.S.W., ParalegalPresident, > >> NFB of California Central Valley Chapter > >> 1237 P Street > >> Fresno ca 93721 > >> 559-266-9237 > >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "David > Andrews"  > >> > >> To: > >> Sent: Friday, March 27, 2009 1:40 PM > >> Subject: [blindlaw] Informational Picketing > Against Authors Guild in > >> NewYork City > >> > >> > >> > >>> From Chris Danielson: > >> > >> Dear Fellow Federationists: > >> > >> As you may already know, Amazon, Inc. released the > newest version of > >> its > >> > >> e-book reader, the Kindle, on February 9 of this > year.  The Kindle 2 > >> > >> includes a feature that allows e-books downloaded > to it to be read > >> aloud. > >> > >> The Authors Guild has objected to this feature > because it believes > >> these > >> > >> e-books are licensed only for visual display, and > under pressure > >> from the > >> > >> Guild, Amazon has decided to allow authors and > publishers to decide > >> which > >> > >> books can be read aloud by this device.  > Naturally, this is a blow > >> to blind > >> > >> people and others with print disabilities who can > benefit from the > >> > >> text-to-speech feature and who would love to be > able to purchase > >> books and > >> > >> start reading them immediately for the first time > in history.  For > >> this > >> > >> reason the National Federation of the Blind has > joined with other > >> > >> organizations representing people who cannot use > print effectively > >> to fight > >> > >> the Authors Guild. > >> > >> We plan to kick off our public education campaign > to increase public > >> > >> pressure on the Authors Guild to reverse its > stance with an > >> informational > >> > >> protest in front of the Guild's headquarters in > New York City.  This > >> picket > >> > >> will take place on Tuesday, April 7, from noon > until 2:00 p.m.  I am > >> writing > >> > >> to you in hopes that you can organize members to > come to this > >> protest.  A > >> > >> number of Federationists from Maryland are coming > and we expect > >> > >> participation from other organizations in the > coalition, but it > >> would be > >> > >> very helpful if those of you with easy access to > New York City would > >> help us > >> > >> by providing more picketers.  It is extremely > important that we  > >> make a > >> > >> strong impression on the Authors Guild and the > media so that our > >> message > >> > >> will be heard. > >> > >> In the next few days you will receive more > communications with > >> additional > >> > >> logistical details, as well as more information > about our position  > >> and > >> > >> suggestions on how to respond to questions from > the media.  In the > >> meantime, > >> > >> if you have additional questions, please do not > hesitate to contact > >> me.  As > >> > >> soon as you have an idea of how many people may be > able to come to > >> this > >> > >> event, please provide that information to John > Par? by calling > >> 410-659-9314, > >> > >> ext. 2227, or by e-mailing jpare at nfb.org.  > Thank you for your > >> assistance in > >> > >> this important matter. > >> > >> Sincerely: > >> > >> Chris Danielsen > >> > >> Christopher S. Danielsen > >> > >> Director of Public Relations > >> > >> NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND > >> > >> > >> David Andrews and white cane Harry. > >> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> blindlaw mailing list > >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get > your account info > >> for blindlaw: > >> > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob > > al.net > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> blindlaw mailing list > >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get > your account info > >> for blindlaw: > >> > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/everett%40zufelt.c > > a > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > blindlaw mailing list > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for > > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol > > > . > > com > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, > version of virus  > > signature > > database 3971 (20090328) __________ > > > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > > > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, > version of virus  > > signature > > database 3972 (20090328) __________ > > > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > blindlaw mailing list > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info  > > for blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet..org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/everett%40zufelt.ca > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2009 09:17:16 -0700 > From: Michael Fry > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Informational Picketing Against > Authors Guild >     inNewYork City > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Message-ID: >     <8c58e54a0903280917t4d5b93ear95d903b361ddceab at mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Without doing an in depth analysis of the issue I will > simply say that I > strongly support the NFB on this issue.  I'm very > proud of the NFB > for courageously taking up a difficult fight whose positive > outcome will in > all practical terms improve the lives of the blind.  > The Guild's neo-luddite > stance is shameful and wrong. > > I will go so far as to say that any anti-technology or > scientific > advancement policy or stance is detrimental to the visually > impaired > community because it is only through this technology that > the lot of the > visually impaired is appreciably improved and frankly the > only path to > eventually curing blindness.  But that's a broader > message used perhaps as a > guideline that may already be tacitly incorporated into the > NFB's mission > statement. > > The NFB should form a coalition with it's other disability > advocacy brothers > such as those with spinal cord injury ect. to oppose any > luddite stances and > vigorously advocate the federal government for increased > hard life > science research and development and less draconian > regulations. > > > > On Sat, Mar 28, 2009 at 5:25 AM, E.J. Zufelt > wrote: > > > Good morning, > > > > Interesting, I think that the word that persuades me > here is performance. > >  The argument then, as I understand it, is that > the reading aloud, by a > > person or machine, of a work differs from an audio > book that is commercially > > produced that would be considered a performance of the > work.  I think that I > > can accept that to be a reasonable distinction between > the two.  So, even if > > the ability to have a work read aloud impacts > negatively on an authors > > return on investment, which it may not, it is as a > result of evolving > > technology and is something that the authoring > industry will need to deal > > with in the same manner as other industries must deal > with the potential > > negative economic impact of evolving technology. > > > > Thanks for your thorough explanation, > > Everett > > > > > > > > On 28-Mar-09, at 8:16 AM, Chris Danielsen wrote: > > > >   Hi Everett, > >> > >> First, let me say that not only are Federation > members supportive of this > >> action, but we have in fact reached out to other > disability organizations > >> representing individuals with spinal cord > injuries, dyslexia and other > >> learning disabilities, and other print > disabilities and they are all in > >> agreement with this position. Second, the issue > here is not whether > >> authors > >> have the right to control their intellectual > property, which they most > >> certainly do. The issue is whether they can parse > up the uses of an e-book > >> that an individual has already paid for and claim > that each potential use > >> of > >> it is an intellectual property right. > >> > >> The Authors Guild is upset because Amazon added a > text-to-speech function > >> to > >> its Kindle 2, which means that downloaded e-books > can be read aloud. > >> Initially, Amazon did not plan to include the > ability to disable that > >> function; the company only backed down when the > Authors Guild raised a > >> stink.. But the fact is that Amazon was initially > legally correct to > >> believe > >> that there was no inherent intellectual property > right involved. The > >> reading > >> aloud of text that one has purchased, in private, > is not a copyright > >> violation but a fair use. To argue otherwise is to > argue that parents who > >> read bedtime stories to their kids, or for that > matter blind people who > >> have > >> a print textbook read aloud to them by a reader > (human or machine), are > >> violating copyright law. This is ridiculous and > every copyright lawyer > >> worth > >> his or her salt knows it; even the Authors Guild > is now backing down from > >> it, arguing instead that the terms of their > contracts prohibit this use. > >> It > >> makes absolutely no difference whether the reading > aloud is done by a > >> human > >> or a machine, as long as there is no "public > performance" or derivative > >> work > >> created. > >> > >> The Authors Guild wants what you have suggested--a > registration system for > >> people with disabilities, who would then be > allowed to unlock the > >> text-to-speech function. But more than just blind > people are affected > >> here, > >> and many of them have disabilities that are not > tied to a specific organic > >> cause and can't be medically diagnosed. Besides, > who would administer this > >> system? Amazon? The Authors Guild? And more to the > point, why should > >> disabled readers have to register to read a book > that we have paid good > >> money for? The Guild's position is tantamount to > saying, "You can buy our > >> e-books but you can't read them without clearance > from us." It is > >> unacceptable and discriminatory. > >> > >> Bottom line; Everyone who pays good money for an > e-book--which is not > >> inherently either a visual or audio work and could > conceivably be > >> converted > >> into even more formats, including Braille--should > be able to read it in > >> whatever form works best for them. The authors > have a chance here to get > >> money from the disability community--a revenue > stream they've never had > >> before since right now we get a lot of our reading > material from free or > >> subscription services like NLS or Bookshare. But > our money apparently > >> isn't > >> good enough for them. Sure, they're motivated not > by keeping us out but by > >> trying to keep out the sighted, in order to make > sure that the sighted > >> either pay a surcharge for text-to-speech or buy > the much more expensive > >> audio book version. But that's just greed, not an > intellectual property > >> dispute. And disabled people who have legitimate > reading problems but > >> can't > >> "prove" them to the satisfaction of the Authors > Guild will also have to > >> pay > >> that surcharge. This is wrong on many levels and > it's lousy business too. > >> I > >> hope that in light of all this you will consider > supporting our action. > >> > >> Library services for the blind and others have > their place, but the advent > >> of the e-book means that we no longer have to be > locked into those systems > >> and potentially will have access to a much broader > array of literary > >> content. This has been the dream of the blind and > others with print > >> disabilities for generations. We are not going to > let a knee-jerk, poorly > >> thought out reaction from some authors > organization take that dream away. > >> > >> Chris > >> > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] > On > >> Behalf Of E.J. Zufelt > >> Sent: Saturday, March 28, 2009 5:01 AM > >> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Informational Picketing > Against Authors Guild > >> inNewYork City > >> > >> Good morning, > >> > >> My concern with this action is whether or not the > opinion expressed is > >> representative of NFB membership.  I for one > believe that Amazon is > >> well within their reasonable right to block this > functionality from > >> titles on their site to perserve the authors > rights to their > >> intellectual property. > >> > >> Perhaps a better approach would be for Amazon to > be required to make > >> an unlocked version of the texts available to > individuals who register > >> as text impaired.  Understandably this method > would have several > >> problems that would have to be negotiated between > all concerned parties. > >> > >> Just my two cents, > >> Everett > >> > >> > >> On 28-Mar-09, at 4:36 AM, > wrote: > >> > >> If the legislative alert system previously > discussed on this list > >>> hade been implemented members from all over > the country could > >>> respond with emails or faxes to the Authors > Guild to address this > >>> issue. This would be much more effective then > to expect Federations > >>> spending hundreds of dollars on plain fare and > hotel accommodations > >>> for this cause. While the information > definitely needs to be > >>> provided there are much more effective ways > for this to be done. > >>> Charles L. Krugman, M.S.W., > ParalegalPresident, > >>> NFB of California Central Valley Chapter > >>> 1237 P Street > >>> Fresno ca 93721 > >>> 559-266-9237 > >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "David > Andrews" > >>> To: > >>> Sent: Friday, March 27, 2009 1:40 PM > >>> Subject: [blindlaw] Informational Picketing > Against Authors Guild in > >>> NewYork City > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> From Chris Danielson: > >>>> > >>> > >>> Dear Fellow Federationists: > >>> > >>> As you may already know, Amazon, Inc. released > the newest version of > >>> its > >>> > >>> e-book reader, the Kindle, on February 9 of > this year.  The Kindle 2 > >>> > >>> includes a feature that allows e-books > downloaded to it to be read > >>> aloud. > >>> > >>> The Authors Guild has objected to this feature > because it believes > >>> these > >>> > >>> e-books are licensed only for visual display, > and under pressure > >>> from the > >>> > >>> Guild, Amazon has decided to allow authors and > publishers to decide > >>> which > >>> > >>> books can be read aloud by this device.  > Naturally, this is a blow > >>> to blind > >>> > >>> people and others with print disabilities who > can benefit from the > >>> > >>> text-to-speech feature and who would love to > be able to purchase > >>> books and > >>> > >>> start reading them immediately for the first > time in history.  For > >>> this > >>> > >>> reason the National Federation of the Blind > has joined with other > >>> > >>> organizations representing people who cannot > use print effectively > >>> to fight > >>> > >>> the Authors Guild. > >>> > >>> We plan to kick off our public education > campaign to increase public > >>> > >>> pressure on the Authors Guild to reverse its > stance with an > >>> informational > >>> > >>> protest in front of the Guild's headquarters > in New York City.  This > >>> picket > >>> > >>> will take place on Tuesday, April 7, from noon > until 2:00 p.m.  I am > >>> writing > >>> > >>> to you in hopes that you can organize members > to come to this > >>> protest.  A > >>> > >>> number of Federationists from Maryland are > coming and we expect > >>> > >>> participation from other organizations in the > coalition, but it > >>> would be > >>> > >>> very helpful if those of you with easy access > to New York City would > >>> help us > >>> > >>> by providing more picketers.  It is > extremely important that we make a > >>> > >>> strong impression on the Authors Guild and the > media so that our > >>> message > >>> > >>> will be heard. > >>> > >>> In the next few days you will receive more > communications with > >>> additional > >>> > >>> logistical details, as well as more > information about our position and > >>> > >>> suggestions on how to respond to questions > from the media.  In the > >>> meantime, > >>> > >>> if you have additional questions, please do > not hesitate to contact > >>> me.  As > >>> > >>> soon as you have an idea of how many people > may be able to come to > >>> this > >>> > >>> event, please provide that information to John > Par? by calling > >>> 410-659-9314, > >>> > >>> ext. 2227, or by e-mailing jpare at nfb.org.  > Thank you for your > >>> assistance in > >>> > >>> this important matter. > >>> > >>> Sincerely: > >>> > >>> Chris Danielsen > >>> > >>> Christopher S. Danielsen > >>> > >>> Director of Public Relations > >>> > >>> NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND > >>> > >>> > >>> David Andrews and white cane Harry. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ > >>> blindlaw mailing list > >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or > get your account info > >>> for blindlaw: > >>> > >>> > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob > >> al.net > >> > >>> > >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ > >>> blindlaw mailing list > >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or > get your account info > >>> for blindlaw: > >>> > >>> > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/everett%40zufelt.c > >> a > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> blindlaw mailing list > >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get > your account info for > >> blindlaw: > >> > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol > >> . > >> com > >> > >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, > version of virus > >> signature > >> database 3971 (20090328) __________ > >> > >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > >> > >> http://www.eset.com > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, > version of virus > >> signature > >> database 3972 (20090328) __________ > >> > >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > >> > >> http://www.eset.com > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> blindlaw mailing list > >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get > your account info for > >> blindlaw: > >> > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/everett%40zufelt.ca > >> > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > blindlaw mailing list > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for > > blindlaw: > > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mikefry79%40gmail.com > > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > > End of blindlaw Digest, Vol 58, Issue 28 > **************************************** > > > >       > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/william.odonnell1%40yahoo.com > From DFrye at nfb.org Mon Mar 30 18:37:50 2009 From: DFrye at nfb.org (Frye, Dan) Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2009 14:37:50 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] tenBroek Law Symposium--Still Time to Register In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6B953F49@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local> Fred: I appreciate your constructive suggestion for expanding the reach of the tenBroek Law Symposium, and I will pass your feedback along to event organizers. In this instance I have only been asked to convey the announcement to this list; I have not been directly involved with event logistics. While I cannot speak with any authority on this subject, I would doubt that Web-casting the symposium at this stage can or will be managed. Please know that if you were available to attend, I am confident that provision could be made for your lodging without regard to your organizational affiliation. I wouldn't "be at a loss" if I were you about no plans for Web-casting the event; it's either not being done because all the good ideas didn't originate with the bright but human event organizers or a conscious decision to encourage in-person participation was made. I am certain that the decision about Web-casting (whatever it was) was not an oversight calculated to offend, cause consternation or outrage, or leave people "at a loss." Obviously not everybody will be able to attend--we just want people to know that the welcome mat is extended if your life's circumstances allow for you to take the time and spend the money to do so. Dan Frye -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Fred Wright Lopez Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 1:36 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] tenBroek Law Symposium--Still Time to Register I am an attorney member of the Blind Lawyers Association, although not an NFB member I first would like to thank you for the genrerous offer you have extended with regard to loggingassistance for the tenBroek Law Sympsium. Transportation costs are certaintly a disincentive to participation in this education conference. However, I am at a lost to understand why there was no effort to provide "Web Casting" of this very important legal training session. I reside in California and accordingly the length of time taken to travel to and from the conference site is also a consideration. I for one would very like to benefit from the tenbroek seminar but can not afford the time away from other pressing legal obligations. Web casting of the event would provide the opportunity for many of us to participate. Is there any possibility that the symposium can be web cast? Sincerely, Fred W. Lopez On Mar 30, 2009, at 9:19 AM, Frye, Dan wrote: > List Colleagues: > > Lou Ann Blake, the tenBroek Law Symposium coordinator on the NFB > national staff, has asked that I post this reminder flyer once again > to members of the blind and visually impaired legal community > subscribed to this list. In addition to everything Lou Ann says in the > following announcement (which is also attached as a Word Document for > your convenience), I am reasonably confident that some accommodations > here at the National Center for the Blind can be made available for > our members and friends who would come except for the additional > expense associated with lodging. If free sleeping accommodations here > at the National Center for the Blind would make your participation > more likely, please contact Lou Ann Blake to discuss arrangements. As > stated in the announcement, other financial concessions associated > with the tenBroek Law Symposium can also be made in certain > circumstances. Lou Ann has assembled a high-caliber array of program > presenters, and we want to make certain that people can benefit from > this important symposium. > See > the announcement pasted below and attached to this message for further > information: > > There's Still Time to Register and Reserve Your Room at the Holiday > Inn Inner Harbor > > > > For the > > > > 2009 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium > > New Perspectives on Disability Law: Advancing the Right to Live in the > World > > > > > > Be sure to let your colleagues and friends know that the deadline to > register for this exciting and powerful symposium is April 10, 2009, > and that the cut-off date for reserving rooms at the Holiday Inn Inner > Harbor has been extended to April 3, 2009. Don't miss this > opportunity to voice your concerns to Kareem Dale, Special Assistant > to President Obama for Disability Policy, at the 2009 Jacobus tenBroek > Disability Law Symposium on April 17th at the National Federation of > the Blind Jernigan Institute in Baltimore, Maryland. Mr. Dale will > speak on the Obama administration's policies on disability issues for > approximately thirty minutes followed by a forty-five minute question > and answer session. In addition to Mr. Dale, the presenters for the > 2009 symposium are: > > > > * Maura Healey, Assistant Attorney General and Chief, Office of > Civil Rights, Commonwealth of Massachusetts; > * Amy Robertson and Timothy Fox, Principals, Fox & Robertson, > P.C.; > * Gerard Quinn, Professor of Law, National University of Ireland, > Galway; > * Katherine Guernsey, International Lawyer and Adjunct Professor, > American University School of International Service; > * Samuel Bagenstos, Visiting Professor of Law, UCLA Law School; > * Christine Griffin, Commissioner, United States Equal Employment > Opportunity Commission; and > * Peter Blanck, University Professor and Chairman, Burton Blatt > Institute at Syracuse University. > > > > Ari Ne'eman, founding president of the Autistic Self-Advocacy Network, > will give the luncheon keynote address. > > > > To view the full agenda, register online, or download the registration > form to register by mail or fax, visit the symposium Web page at > http://www.nfb.org/nfb/Law_Symposium.asp. Hotel information may also > be found on the symposium Web page. The deadline to make room > reservations at the Holiday Inn Inner Harbor has been extended to 3:00 > pm, April 3, 2009. > > > > The registration fee is $150; students may register for $20. A > limited number of scholarships to cover the registration fee will be > available to individuals with demonstrated financial need. Don't miss > this exciting opportunity to interact with leading scholars, > government officials, and advocates and to make your voice heard. The > deadline to register is April 10, 2009. > > > > Symposium attendees will be provided documentation for CLE credit. > Individuals will be responsible for filing the application for CLE > credit with their state board. > > > > The 2009 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium is sponsored by the > National Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute, the American Bar > Association Commission on Mental and Physical Disability Law, the > Maryland Department of Disability, the Texas Journal on Civil > Liberties and Civil Rights, and the Legal Times. > > > > For additional information about the symposium, contact: > > > > Lou Ann Blake, Law Symposium Coordinator > > National Federation of the Blind > > Telephone: (410) 659-9314, ext. 2221 > > E-mail: lblake at nfb.org > > > > I look forward to seeing many of you on April 17, 2009, for the second > annual tenBroek Law Symposium. > > > > With Kind Regards, > > > > > *********************** > Daniel B. Frye, J.D. > Associate Editor > The Braille Monitor > National Federation of the Blind > Office of the President > 1800 Johnson Street > Baltimore, Maryland 21230 > Telephone: (410) 659-9314 Ext. 2208 > Mobile: (410) 241-7006 > Fax: (410) 685-5653 > Email: DFrye at nfb.org > Web Address: www.nfb.org "Voice of the Nation's > Blind" > > <3-30 2009 law sym promo e- > mail.doc>_______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/fwlopez%40co > mcast.net _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/dfrye%40nfb.or g From chatter8712 at gmail.com Mon Mar 30 18:47:59 2009 From: chatter8712 at gmail.com (Shane D) Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2009 14:47:59 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Fw: Reading Rights Coalition Urges Authors to Allow Everyone Access to E-books In-Reply-To: <8c58e54a0903301021m44094b44q5bcb7e72ab209a59@mail.gmail.com> References: <40DB1C3BA7A1407E83E3E7A85D0E24FE@labarre> <8c58e54a0903301021m44094b44q5bcb7e72ab209a59@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7556b95a0903301147s5ef9d3b9ubf43957bd3e1787d@mail.gmail.com> I may have missed it, but where did you come up with the registering and paying extra? The issue is that they can just turn off the reading for all. On 3/30/09, Michael Fry wrote: > It is awesome that so many organizations are coalescing around such a noble > and worthy cause. > > The Guilds position is immoral since it is infringes on human rights > and dignity because it exploits, for profit, a vulnerable minority of the > population. Requiring the disabled to 'register' - like some kind > of inferior animal - in order to use new, free, and > innovative text-to-speech technology places an unnecessary obstacle in path > of people with disablities. This obstacle is desgined solely to exploit > money from people without the time or inclination or, who are too > embarrassed to register, as a text disabled individuals. They are > attempting to bully extra profits out of people with disabilities. The > Guild, comprised of enlightened and educated individuals, should be ashamed > since there is no explanation other than immoral greed for their position. > > > On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 9:16 AM, Scott C. LaBarre > wrote: > >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Freeh, Jessica >> To: Alpidio Rolon ; Amy Buresh ; Anil Lewis ; Art Schreiber ; Beth Rival ; >> Bob Kresmer ; Carl Jacobsen ; Cathy Jackson ; Charlene Smyth ; Christine >> G. >> Hall ; Daniel Burke ; David Ticchi ; Don Galloway ; Donna Wood ; Elsie >> Lamp >> ; Frank Lee ; Franklin Shiner ; Fred Schroeder ; Fred Wurtzel ; Gary Ray ; >> Gary Wunder ; J.W. Smith ; James Antonacci ; James Broadnax ; Jennelle >> Bichler ; Jennifer Dunnam ; Jerree Harris ; Joe Ruffalo ; John Batron ; >> John >> Fritz ; Joyce Scanlan ; Kathy Davis ; Ken Rollman ; Kevan Worley ; Marie >> Johnson ; Mary Willows ; Melissa Riccobono ; Michael Barber ; Michael >> Freeman ; Nani Fife ; Pam Allen ; Parnell Diggs ; Patti Chang ; Richard >> Bennett ; Richard Gaffney ; Ron Brown ; Ron Gardner ; Sam Gleese ; Scott >> LaBarre ; Selena Sundling-Crawford ; Steven Priddle ; Terri Rupp ; Tommy >> Craig >> Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 7:09 AM >> Subject: Reading Rights Coalition Urges Authors to Allow Everyone Access >> to >> E-books >> >> >> FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE >> >> >> CONTACT: >> >> Chris Danielsen >> >> Director of Public Relations >> >> National Federation of the Blind >> >> (410) 659-9314, ext. 2330 >> >> (410) 262-1281 (Cell) >> cdanielsen at nfb.org >> >> >> >> Reading Rights Coalition Urges Authors to Allow >> Everyone Access to E-books >> >> >> >> Informational Protest to be Held at Authors Guild Headquarters >> >> >> >> New York City (March 30, 2009): The Reading Rights Coalition, which >> represents people who cannot read print, will protest the threatened >> removal >> of the text-to-speech function from e-books for the Amazon Kindle 2 >> outside >> the Authors Guild headquarters in New York City at 31 East 32nd Street on >> April 7, 2009, from noon to 2:00 p.m. The coalition includes the blind, >> people with dyslexia, people with learning or processing issues, seniors >> losing vision, people with spinal cord injuries, people recovering from >> strokes, and many others for whom the addition of text-to-speech on the >> Kindle 2 promised for the first time easy, mainstream access to over >> 245,000 >> books. >> >> >> >> When Amazon released the Kindle 2 electronic book reader on February 9, >> 2009, the company announced that the device would be able to read e-books >> aloud using text-to-speech technology. Under pressure from the Authors >> Guild, Amazon has announced that it will give authors and publishers the >> ability to disable the text-to-speech function on any or all of their >> e-books available for the Kindle 2. >> >> >> >> Dr. Marc Maurer, President of the National Federation of the Blind, said: >> "The blind and print-disabled have for years utilized text-to-speech >> technology to read and access information. As technology advances and >> more >> books move from hard-copy print to electronic formats, people with print >> disabilities have for the first time in history the opportunity to enjoy >> access to books on an equal basis with those who can read print. Authors >> and publishers who elect to disable text-to-speech for their e-books on >> the >> Kindle 2 prevent people who are blind or have >> >> other print disabilities from reading these e-books. This is blatant >> discrimination and we will not tolerate it." >> >> >> >> Mike Shuttic, president of the Association on Higher Education and >> Disability (AHEAD), said: "AHEAD envisions educational and societal >> environments that value disability and embody equality of opportunity. >> This >> vision of AHEAD is directly aligned with the efforts of this coalition. >> Although much rhetoric is made about potential obstacles and problems >> that >> exist, the basic goal is clear and simple--access for everyone. And why >> create something that prevents it?" >> >> >> >> Mitch Pomerantz, president of the American Council of the Blind, said: >> "Removing the text-to-speech features closes the door on an innovative >> technological solution that would make regular print books available to >> tens >> of thousands of individuals who are blind or visually impaired." >> >> >> >> Andrew Imparato, President and Chief Executive Officer for the American >> Association of People with Disabilities (AAPD), said: "It is outrageous >> when >> a technology device shuts out people with all kinds of disabilities. AAPD >> works to remove barriers to accessibility and usability in technology, and >> we don't expect to see people with disabilities singled out by having to >> pay >> more for access. New technologies, such as electronic books, should be >> available to everyone regardless of disability." >> >> Paul Schroeder, vice president of programs and policy for the American >> Foundation for the Blind, said: "Those of us with print disabilities have >> long dreamed of a world in which books and media are available to us at >> the >> same time as everyone else. The Kindle 2 offers that possibility for the >> first time. We hope publishers and authors come to see that >> text-to-speech >> is simply an alternative means of access to print." >> >> Dr. Peter Blanck, chairman and university professor at Burton Blatt >> Institute at Syracuse University, said: "As electronic books become the >> norm, denying universal access will result in more and more people with >> disabilities being left out of education, employment, and the societal >> conversation. We will all suffer from the absence of their participation >> and contribution to the debates that occupy us as a society." >> >> >> >> George Kerscher of the Digital Accessible Information System (DAISY) >> Consortium, said: "The DAISY Consortium envisions a world where people >> with >> print disabilities have equal access to information and knowledge, without >> delay or additional expense. Authors and publishers surely must share >> this >> vision. Now that the issue of human rights has been explained, and the >> opportunity for larger sales are known, I urge the Authors Guild to >> reverse >> their position on text-to-speech and join us in actively encouraging all >> publishers and reading technology developers to open the world of reading >> to >> everybody. Authors, join us on the picket line." >> >> >> >> >> >> Steve Jacobs, president of IDEAL Group Inc., said, "Not only is >> text-to-speech important to people who are blind, it is critical in >> providing quality educations to millions of young people who rely on >> text-to-speech to learn effectively. This includes students with autism, >> learning disabilities, mobility disabilities, and cognitive disabilities >> that impact their ability to acquire information with their eyes only. I >> remain hopeful that the talented members of the Authors Guild come to >> understand the potential negative impact of disabling the text-to-speech >> function on their e-books and reconsider their position." >> >> >> >> Cynthia D. Waddell, executive director of the International Center for >> Disability Resources on the Internet (ICDRI), said: "The mission of ICDRI >> supports the removal of barriers in electronic and information technology >> and the promotion of equal access. ICDRI welcomes the text-to-speech >> functionality being offered by the Kindle 2 since it increases mainstream >> access to books for the first time in history. We question why the >> Authors >> Guild demands that it be turned it off since many more books would be sold >> if text-to-speech was turned back on. Not only >> >> does this feature benefit persons with disabilities, but it also helps >> persons for whom English is not their native language. In an increasingly >> mobile society, flexibility in access to content improves the quality of >> life for everyone." >> >> >> >> James Love, director of Knowledge Ecology International, said: "Knowing >> full well that not everyone can see, the Authors Guild wants the right to >> be >> seen, but not heard. By bullying Amazon to change the technology of >> Kindle >> 2, the Authors Guild will either deny access to people who are disabled, >> or >> make them pay more. By attacking disabled persons in this way, the >> Authors >> Guild is attacking everyone who would otherwise benefit from the >> contributions this community has the potential to offer." >> >> >> >> James H. Wendorf, executive director for the National Center for Learning >> Disabilities, said: "Access to the written word is the cornerstone of >> education and democracy. New technologies must serve individuals with >> disabilities, not impede them. Our homes, schools and ultimately our >> economy rely on support for the future, not discriminating practices and >> beliefs from the past." >> >> While the Kindle 2 is not currently accessible to blind users, Amazon >> recently announced on its Kindle 2 blog that it is currently at work on >> making the device's navigational features accessible to the blind. >> >> >> >> The coalition includes: American Association of People with Disabilities, >> American Council of the Blind, American Foundation for the Blind, >> Association on Higher Education and Disability, Bazelon Center for Mental >> Health Law, Burton Blatt Institute, Digital Accessible Information System >> (DAISY) Consortium, Disability Rights Education and Defense Fund (DREDF), >> IDEAL Group, Inc., International Center for Disability Resources on the >> Internet, International Dyslexia Association, International Dyslexia >> Association--New York Branch, Knowledge Ecology International, Learning >> Disabilities Association of America, National Center for Learning >> Disabilities, National Disability Rights Network, National Federation of >> the >> Blind, NISH, and the National Spinal Cord Injury Association. In addition >> to the April 7 New York City protest, the coalition will participate in >> the >> Los Angeles Times Festival of Books on April 25-26. >> >> >> >> ### >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mikefry79%40gmail.com >> > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/chatter8712%40gmail.com > -- -Shane Website: http://www.blind-geek.com AIM: inhaddict MSN: shane at blind-geek.com Skype: chatter8712 Twitter: blind_geek From stone_troll at sbcglobal.net Mon Mar 30 19:28:35 2009 From: stone_troll at sbcglobal.net (Mark BurningHawk) Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2009 12:28:35 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] NO MORE EXCUSES - THE BLIND HAVE RIGHTS TO "HEAR WHAT OTHERS SEE" CHALLENGE 09 In-Reply-To: <835440.21854.qm@web30901.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <835440.21854.qm@web30901.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <0A854623-B9A3-40F7-916E-2E5747628147@sbcglobal.net> That's right, darn it! The blind deserve the right to be just as selfish and greedy and uncaring as the rest of them! The blind should be able to live for today and not care about the problems of tomorrow with the same blaze disregard for the downtrodden as do the rest of the Americans! ... get my point? Don't trade one set of stereotypes for another; you sound just as bitter as the whining blindies sitting home collecting their checks and expecting the world to be handed to them. While I prefer your particular brand of bitterness over their, and to a very large degree share it, I am also aware of the follies in trading one stereotype for another. Beware of becoming your enemy. From everett at zufelt.ca Mon Mar 30 22:15:26 2009 From: everett at zufelt.ca (E.J. Zufelt) Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2009 19:15:26 -0300 Subject: [blindlaw] Fw: Reading Rights Coalition Urges Authors to Allow Everyone Access to E-books In-Reply-To: <8c58e54a0903301021m44094b44q5bcb7e72ab209a59@mail.gmail.com> References: <40DB1C3BA7A1407E83E3E7A85D0E24FE@labarre> <8c58e54a0903301021m44094b44q5bcb7e72ab209a59@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <02D7D05D-7EE8-4D75-A7F1-05A1096E94B4@zufelt.ca> Is it immoral for Bookshare to require registration aswell? Everett On 30-Mar-09, at 2:21 PM, Michael Fry wrote: > It is awesome that so many organizations are coalescing around such > a noble > and worthy cause. > > The Guilds position is immoral since it is infringes on human rights > and dignity because it exploits, for profit, a vulnerable minority > of the > population. Requiring the disabled to 'register' - like some kind > of inferior animal - in order to use new, free, and > innovative text-to-speech technology places an unnecessary obstacle > in path > of people with disablities. This obstacle is desgined solely to > exploit > money from people without the time or inclination or, who are too > embarrassed to register, as a text disabled individuals. They are > attempting to bully extra profits out of people with disabilities. > The > Guild, comprised of enlightened and educated individuals, should be > ashamed > since there is no explanation other than immoral greed for their > position. > > > On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 9:16 AM, Scott C. LaBarre > wrote: > >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Freeh, Jessica >> To: Alpidio Rolon ; Amy Buresh ; Anil Lewis ; Art Schreiber ; Beth >> Rival ; >> Bob Kresmer ; Carl Jacobsen ; Cathy Jackson ; Charlene Smyth ; >> Christine G. >> Hall ; Daniel Burke ; David Ticchi ; Don Galloway ; Donna Wood ; >> Elsie Lamp >> ; Frank Lee ; Franklin Shiner ; Fred Schroeder ; Fred Wurtzel ; >> Gary Ray ; >> Gary Wunder ; J.W. Smith ; James Antonacci ; James Broadnax ; >> Jennelle >> Bichler ; Jennifer Dunnam ; Jerree Harris ; Joe Ruffalo ; John >> Batron ; John >> Fritz ; Joyce Scanlan ; Kathy Davis ; Ken Rollman ; Kevan Worley ; >> Marie >> Johnson ; Mary Willows ; Melissa Riccobono ; Michael Barber ; Michael >> Freeman ; Nani Fife ; Pam Allen ; Parnell Diggs ; Patti Chang ; >> Richard >> Bennett ; Richard Gaffney ; Ron Brown ; Ron Gardner ; Sam Gleese ; >> Scott >> LaBarre ; Selena Sundling-Crawford ; Steven Priddle ; Terri Rupp ; >> Tommy >> Craig >> Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 7:09 AM >> Subject: Reading Rights Coalition Urges Authors to Allow Everyone >> Access to >> E-books >> >> >> FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE >> >> >> CONTACT: >> >> Chris Danielsen >> >> Director of Public Relations >> >> National Federation of the Blind >> >> (410) 659-9314, ext. 2330 >> >> (410) 262-1281 (Cell) >> cdanielsen at nfb.org >> >> >> >> Reading Rights Coalition Urges Authors to Allow >> Everyone Access to E-books >> >> >> >> Informational Protest to be Held at Authors Guild Headquarters >> >> >> >> New York City (March 30, 2009): The Reading Rights Coalition, which >> represents people who cannot read print, will protest the >> threatened removal >> of the text-to-speech function from e-books for the Amazon Kindle 2 >> outside >> the Authors Guild headquarters in New York City at 31 East 32nd >> Street on >> April 7, 2009, from noon to 2:00 p.m. The coalition includes the >> blind, >> people with dyslexia, people with learning or processing issues, >> seniors >> losing vision, people with spinal cord injuries, people recovering >> from >> strokes, and many others for whom the addition of text-to-speech on >> the >> Kindle 2 promised for the first time easy, mainstream access to >> over 245,000 >> books. >> >> >> >> When Amazon released the Kindle 2 electronic book reader on >> February 9, >> 2009, the company announced that the device would be able to read e- >> books >> aloud using text-to-speech technology. Under pressure from the >> Authors >> Guild, Amazon has announced that it will give authors and >> publishers the >> ability to disable the text-to-speech function on any or all of their >> e-books available for the Kindle 2. >> >> >> >> Dr. Marc Maurer, President of the National Federation of the Blind, >> said: >> "The blind and print-disabled have for years utilized text-to-speech >> technology to read and access information. As technology advances >> and more >> books move from hard-copy print to electronic formats, people with >> print >> disabilities have for the first time in history the opportunity to >> enjoy >> access to books on an equal basis with those who can read print. >> Authors >> and publishers who elect to disable text-to-speech for their e- >> books on the >> Kindle 2 prevent people who are blind or have >> >> other print disabilities from reading these e-books. This is blatant >> discrimination and we will not tolerate it." >> >> >> >> Mike Shuttic, president of the Association on Higher Education and >> Disability (AHEAD), said: "AHEAD envisions educational and societal >> environments that value disability and embody equality of >> opportunity. This >> vision of AHEAD is directly aligned with the efforts of this >> coalition. >> Although much rhetoric is made about potential obstacles and >> problems that >> exist, the basic goal is clear and simple--access for everyone. >> And why >> create something that prevents it?" >> >> >> >> Mitch Pomerantz, president of the American Council of the Blind, >> said: >> "Removing the text-to-speech features closes the door on an >> innovative >> technological solution that would make regular print books >> available to tens >> of thousands of individuals who are blind or visually impaired." >> >> >> >> Andrew Imparato, President and Chief Executive Officer for the >> American >> Association of People with Disabilities (AAPD), said: "It is >> outrageous when >> a technology device shuts out people with all kinds of >> disabilities. AAPD >> works to remove barriers to accessibility and usability in >> technology, and >> we don't expect to see people with disabilities singled out by >> having to pay >> more for access. New technologies, such as electronic books, >> should be >> available to everyone regardless of disability." >> >> Paul Schroeder, vice president of programs and policy for the >> American >> Foundation for the Blind, said: "Those of us with print >> disabilities have >> long dreamed of a world in which books and media are available to >> us at the >> same time as everyone else. The Kindle 2 offers that possibility >> for the >> first time. We hope publishers and authors come to see that text- >> to-speech >> is simply an alternative means of access to print." >> >> Dr. Peter Blanck, chairman and university professor at Burton Blatt >> Institute at Syracuse University, said: "As electronic books become >> the >> norm, denying universal access will result in more and more people >> with >> disabilities being left out of education, employment, and the >> societal >> conversation. We will all suffer from the absence of their >> participation >> and contribution to the debates that occupy us as a society." >> >> >> >> George Kerscher of the Digital Accessible Information System (DAISY) >> Consortium, said: "The DAISY Consortium envisions a world where >> people with >> print disabilities have equal access to information and knowledge, >> without >> delay or additional expense. Authors and publishers surely must >> share this >> vision. Now that the issue of human rights has been explained, and >> the >> opportunity for larger sales are known, I urge the Authors Guild to >> reverse >> their position on text-to-speech and join us in actively >> encouraging all >> publishers and reading technology developers to open the world of >> reading to >> everybody. Authors, join us on the picket line." >> >> >> >> >> >> Steve Jacobs, president of IDEAL Group Inc., said, "Not only is >> text-to-speech important to people who are blind, it is critical in >> providing quality educations to millions of young people who rely on >> text-to-speech to learn effectively. This includes students with >> autism, >> learning disabilities, mobility disabilities, and cognitive >> disabilities >> that impact their ability to acquire information with their eyes >> only. I >> remain hopeful that the talented members of the Authors Guild come to >> understand the potential negative impact of disabling the text-to- >> speech >> function on their e-books and reconsider their position." >> >> >> >> Cynthia D. Waddell, executive director of the International Center >> for >> Disability Resources on the Internet (ICDRI), said: "The mission >> of ICDRI >> supports the removal of barriers in electronic and information >> technology >> and the promotion of equal access. ICDRI welcomes the text-to-speech >> functionality being offered by the Kindle 2 since it increases >> mainstream >> access to books for the first time in history. We question why the >> Authors >> Guild demands that it be turned it off since many more books would >> be sold >> if text-to-speech was turned back on. Not only >> >> does this feature benefit persons with disabilities, but it also >> helps >> persons for whom English is not their native language. In an >> increasingly >> mobile society, flexibility in access to content improves the >> quality of >> life for everyone." >> >> >> >> James Love, director of Knowledge Ecology International, said: >> "Knowing >> full well that not everyone can see, the Authors Guild wants the >> right to be >> seen, but not heard. By bullying Amazon to change the technology >> of Kindle >> 2, the Authors Guild will either deny access to people who are >> disabled, or >> make them pay more. By attacking disabled persons in this way, the >> Authors >> Guild is attacking everyone who would otherwise benefit from the >> contributions this community has the potential to offer." >> >> >> >> James H. Wendorf, executive director for the National Center for >> Learning >> Disabilities, said: "Access to the written word is the cornerstone of >> education and democracy. New technologies must serve individuals >> with >> disabilities, not impede them. Our homes, schools and ultimately our >> economy rely on support for the future, not discriminating >> practices and >> beliefs from the past." >> >> While the Kindle 2 is not currently accessible to blind users, Amazon >> recently announced on its Kindle 2 blog that it is currently at >> work on >> making the device's navigational features accessible to the blind. >> >> >> >> The coalition includes: American Association of People with >> Disabilities, >> American Council of the Blind, American Foundation for the Blind, >> Association on Higher Education and Disability, Bazelon Center for >> Mental >> Health Law, Burton Blatt Institute, Digital Accessible Information >> System >> (DAISY) Consortium, Disability Rights Education and Defense Fund >> (DREDF), >> IDEAL Group, Inc., International Center for Disability Resources on >> the >> Internet, International Dyslexia Association, International Dyslexia >> Association--New York Branch, Knowledge Ecology International, >> Learning >> Disabilities Association of America, National Center for Learning >> Disabilities, National Disability Rights Network, National >> Federation of the >> Blind, NISH, and the National Spinal Cord Injury Association. In >> addition >> to the April 7 New York City protest, the coalition will >> participate in the >> Los Angeles Times Festival of Books on April 25-26. >> >> >> >> ### >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mikefry79%40gmail.com >> > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/everett%40zufelt.ca From angie.matney at gmail.com Mon Mar 30 23:26:23 2009 From: angie.matney at gmail.com (Angie Matney) Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2009 19:26:23 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Fw: Reading Rights Coalition Urges Authors to Allow Everyone Access to E-books In-Reply-To: <02D7D05D-7EE8-4D75-A7F1-05A1096E94B4@zufelt.ca> References: <40DB1C3BA7A1407E83E3E7A85D0E24FE@labarre> <8c58e54a0903301021m44094b44q5bcb7e72ab209a59@mail.gmail.com> <02D7D05D-7EE8-4D75-A7F1-05A1096E94B4@zufelt.ca> Message-ID: <49d1551c.86c3f10a.4caf.ffff857c@mx.google.com> Given that wide-spread use of Bookshare would indeed amount to copyright violations, since it would involve creation and distribution of eBooks by third parties; and given that use of the Kindle involves an audible rendering based on a licensed copy of an ebook, and no additional copy is created; the two situations are quite dissimilar. Angie -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of E.J. Zufelt Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 6:15 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Fw: Reading Rights Coalition Urges Authors to Allow Everyone Access to E-books Is it immoral for Bookshare to require registration aswell? From mikefry79 at gmail.com Mon Mar 30 23:29:39 2009 From: mikefry79 at gmail.com (Michael Fry) Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2009 16:29:39 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Fw: Reading Rights Coalition Urges Authors to Allow Everyone Access to E-books In-Reply-To: <7556b95a0903301147s5ef9d3b9ubf43957bd3e1787d@mail.gmail.com> References: <40DB1C3BA7A1407E83E3E7A85D0E24FE@labarre> <8c58e54a0903301021m44094b44q5bcb7e72ab209a59@mail.gmail.com> <7556b95a0903301147s5ef9d3b9ubf43957bd3e1787d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <8c58e54a0903301629obd7c8b0nb50fc62d55697957@mail.gmail.com> To address the first part of your question, Shane, the Guild made the suggestion that those with disabilities desiring to use the Kindle 2 text-to-speech software would have to register in order to obtain access to that software. A burden of proof showing the extent of the registrants disability would be placed on the registrant. This in addition to the hassle of filling out and processing the registration form. I don't know about you Shane, but I don't want to tell the Guild about the intimate details of my disability. Regarding the second part of your first question, Shane. As far as the additional cost goes the Guild can charge more for an aduiobook than they can for a print based book. The reason they don't want the text-to-speech software used is because they think demand for more expensive audiobooks will decrease. This is a stupidly held belief on their part since audiobooks should be considered a different media than books read via text-to-speech software because audiobooks are read by humans and therefore have a superior sounding quality. The Guild's position is analogous to them saying anyone with a reading disability must buy a more expensive hard cover book. In fact it's even more egregious than that because the selection of audiobooks is paltry compared to that of print books. I know that Guild wants to have the ability to just turn off the text to reading software. But the real issue is why do they want to turn off the reading software? The answer to that question, Shane, is so Guild can force people with text-reading-disabilities to buy more expensive audiobooks. I realize the last posting I made in this thread had some grammatical problems. I was in a rush while writing it. Nonetheless, I hope I got the point across. Mike On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 11:47 AM, Shane D wrote: > I may have missed it, but where did you come up with the registering > and paying extra? The issue is that they can just turn off the reading > for all. > > On 3/30/09, Michael Fry wrote: > > It is awesome that so many organizations are coalescing around such a > noble > > and worthy cause. > > > > The Guilds position is immoral since it is infringes on human rights > > and dignity because it exploits, for profit, a vulnerable minority of the > > population. Requiring the disabled to 'register' - like some kind > > of inferior animal - in order to use new, free, and > > innovative text-to-speech technology places an unnecessary obstacle in > path > > of people with disablities. This obstacle is desgined solely to exploit > > money from people without the time or inclination or, who are too > > embarrassed to register, as a text disabled individuals. They are > > attempting to bully extra profits out of people with disabilities. The > > Guild, comprised of enlightened and educated individuals, should be > ashamed > > since there is no explanation other than immoral greed for their > position. > > > > > > On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 9:16 AM, Scott C. LaBarre > > wrote: > > > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: Freeh, Jessica > >> To: Alpidio Rolon ; Amy Buresh ; Anil Lewis ; Art Schreiber ; Beth Rival > ; > >> Bob Kresmer ; Carl Jacobsen ; Cathy Jackson ; Charlene Smyth ; Christine > >> G. > >> Hall ; Daniel Burke ; David Ticchi ; Don Galloway ; Donna Wood ; Elsie > >> Lamp > >> ; Frank Lee ; Franklin Shiner ; Fred Schroeder ; Fred Wurtzel ; Gary Ray > ; > >> Gary Wunder ; J.W. Smith ; James Antonacci ; James Broadnax ; Jennelle > >> Bichler ; Jennifer Dunnam ; Jerree Harris ; Joe Ruffalo ; John Batron ; > >> John > >> Fritz ; Joyce Scanlan ; Kathy Davis ; Ken Rollman ; Kevan Worley ; Marie > >> Johnson ; Mary Willows ; Melissa Riccobono ; Michael Barber ; Michael > >> Freeman ; Nani Fife ; Pam Allen ; Parnell Diggs ; Patti Chang ; Richard > >> Bennett ; Richard Gaffney ; Ron Brown ; Ron Gardner ; Sam Gleese ; Scott > >> LaBarre ; Selena Sundling-Crawford ; Steven Priddle ; Terri Rupp ; Tommy > >> Craig > >> Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 7:09 AM > >> Subject: Reading Rights Coalition Urges Authors to Allow Everyone Access > >> to > >> E-books > >> > >> > >> FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE > >> > >> > >> CONTACT: > >> > >> Chris Danielsen > >> > >> Director of Public Relations > >> > >> National Federation of the Blind > >> > >> (410) 659-9314, ext. 2330 > >> > >> (410) 262-1281 (Cell) > >> cdanielsen at nfb.org > >> > >> > >> > >> Reading Rights Coalition Urges Authors to Allow > >> Everyone Access to E-books > >> > >> > >> > >> Informational Protest to be Held at Authors Guild Headquarters > >> > >> > >> > >> New York City (March 30, 2009): The Reading Rights Coalition, which > >> represents people who cannot read print, will protest the threatened > >> removal > >> of the text-to-speech function from e-books for the Amazon Kindle 2 > >> outside > >> the Authors Guild headquarters in New York City at 31 East 32nd Street > on > >> April 7, 2009, from noon to 2:00 p.m. The coalition includes the blind, > >> people with dyslexia, people with learning or processing issues, seniors > >> losing vision, people with spinal cord injuries, people recovering from > >> strokes, and many others for whom the addition of text-to-speech on the > >> Kindle 2 promised for the first time easy, mainstream access to over > >> 245,000 > >> books. > >> > >> > >> > >> When Amazon released the Kindle 2 electronic book reader on February 9, > >> 2009, the company announced that the device would be able to read > e-books > >> aloud using text-to-speech technology. Under pressure from the Authors > >> Guild, Amazon has announced that it will give authors and publishers the > >> ability to disable the text-to-speech function on any or all of their > >> e-books available for the Kindle 2. > >> > >> > >> > >> Dr. Marc Maurer, President of the National Federation of the Blind, > said: > >> "The blind and print-disabled have for years utilized text-to-speech > >> technology to read and access information. As technology advances and > >> more > >> books move from hard-copy print to electronic formats, people with print > >> disabilities have for the first time in history the opportunity to enjoy > >> access to books on an equal basis with those who can read print. > Authors > >> and publishers who elect to disable text-to-speech for their e-books on > >> the > >> Kindle 2 prevent people who are blind or have > >> > >> other print disabilities from reading these e-books. This is blatant > >> discrimination and we will not tolerate it." > >> > >> > >> > >> Mike Shuttic, president of the Association on Higher Education and > >> Disability (AHEAD), said: "AHEAD envisions educational and societal > >> environments that value disability and embody equality of opportunity. > >> This > >> vision of AHEAD is directly aligned with the efforts of this coalition. > >> Although much rhetoric is made about potential obstacles and problems > >> that > >> exist, the basic goal is clear and simple--access for everyone. And why > >> create something that prevents it?" > >> > >> > >> > >> Mitch Pomerantz, president of the American Council of the Blind, said: > >> "Removing the text-to-speech features closes the door on an innovative > >> technological solution that would make regular print books available to > >> tens > >> of thousands of individuals who are blind or visually impaired." > >> > >> > >> > >> Andrew Imparato, President and Chief Executive Officer for the American > >> Association of People with Disabilities (AAPD), said: "It is outrageous > >> when > >> a technology device shuts out people with all kinds of disabilities. > AAPD > >> works to remove barriers to accessibility and usability in technology, > and > >> we don't expect to see people with disabilities singled out by having to > >> pay > >> more for access. New technologies, such as electronic books, should be > >> available to everyone regardless of disability." > >> > >> Paul Schroeder, vice president of programs and policy for the American > >> Foundation for the Blind, said: "Those of us with print disabilities > have > >> long dreamed of a world in which books and media are available to us at > >> the > >> same time as everyone else. The Kindle 2 offers that possibility for the > >> first time. We hope publishers and authors come to see that > >> text-to-speech > >> is simply an alternative means of access to print." > >> > >> Dr. Peter Blanck, chairman and university professor at Burton Blatt > >> Institute at Syracuse University, said: "As electronic books become the > >> norm, denying universal access will result in more and more people with > >> disabilities being left out of education, employment, and the societal > >> conversation. We will all suffer from the absence of their > participation > >> and contribution to the debates that occupy us as a society." > >> > >> > >> > >> George Kerscher of the Digital Accessible Information System (DAISY) > >> Consortium, said: "The DAISY Consortium envisions a world where people > >> with > >> print disabilities have equal access to information and knowledge, > without > >> delay or additional expense. Authors and publishers surely must share > >> this > >> vision. Now that the issue of human rights has been explained, and the > >> opportunity for larger sales are known, I urge the Authors Guild to > >> reverse > >> their position on text-to-speech and join us in actively encouraging all > >> publishers and reading technology developers to open the world of > reading > >> to > >> everybody. Authors, join us on the picket line." > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> Steve Jacobs, president of IDEAL Group Inc., said, "Not only is > >> text-to-speech important to people who are blind, it is critical in > >> providing quality educations to millions of young people who rely on > >> text-to-speech to learn effectively. This includes students with > autism, > >> learning disabilities, mobility disabilities, and cognitive disabilities > >> that impact their ability to acquire information with their eyes only. I > >> remain hopeful that the talented members of the Authors Guild come to > >> understand the potential negative impact of disabling the text-to-speech > >> function on their e-books and reconsider their position." > >> > >> > >> > >> Cynthia D. Waddell, executive director of the International Center for > >> Disability Resources on the Internet (ICDRI), said: "The mission of > ICDRI > >> supports the removal of barriers in electronic and information > technology > >> and the promotion of equal access. ICDRI welcomes the text-to-speech > >> functionality being offered by the Kindle 2 since it increases > mainstream > >> access to books for the first time in history. We question why the > >> Authors > >> Guild demands that it be turned it off since many more books would be > sold > >> if text-to-speech was turned back on. Not only > >> > >> does this feature benefit persons with disabilities, but it also helps > >> persons for whom English is not their native language. In an > increasingly > >> mobile society, flexibility in access to content improves the quality of > >> life for everyone." > >> > >> > >> > >> James Love, director of Knowledge Ecology International, said: "Knowing > >> full well that not everyone can see, the Authors Guild wants the right > to > >> be > >> seen, but not heard. By bullying Amazon to change the technology of > >> Kindle > >> 2, the Authors Guild will either deny access to people who are disabled, > >> or > >> make them pay more. By attacking disabled persons in this way, the > >> Authors > >> Guild is attacking everyone who would otherwise benefit from the > >> contributions this community has the potential to offer." > >> > >> > >> > >> James H. Wendorf, executive director for the National Center for > Learning > >> Disabilities, said: "Access to the written word is the cornerstone of > >> education and democracy. New technologies must serve individuals with > >> disabilities, not impede them. Our homes, schools and ultimately our > >> economy rely on support for the future, not discriminating practices and > >> beliefs from the past." > >> > >> While the Kindle 2 is not currently accessible to blind users, Amazon > >> recently announced on its Kindle 2 blog that it is currently at work on > >> making the device's navigational features accessible to the blind. > >> > >> > >> > >> The coalition includes: American Association of People with > Disabilities, > >> American Council of the Blind, American Foundation for the Blind, > >> Association on Higher Education and Disability, Bazelon Center for > Mental > >> Health Law, Burton Blatt Institute, Digital Accessible Information > System > >> (DAISY) Consortium, Disability Rights Education and Defense Fund > (DREDF), > >> IDEAL Group, Inc., International Center for Disability Resources on the > >> Internet, International Dyslexia Association, International Dyslexia > >> Association--New York Branch, Knowledge Ecology International, Learning > >> Disabilities Association of America, National Center for Learning > >> Disabilities, National Disability Rights Network, National Federation of > >> the > >> Blind, NISH, and the National Spinal Cord Injury Association. In > addition > >> to the April 7 New York City protest, the coalition will participate in > >> the > >> Los Angeles Times Festival of Books on April 25-26. > >> > >> > >> > >> ### > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> blindlaw mailing list > >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> blindlaw: > >> > >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mikefry79%40gmail.com > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > blindlaw mailing list > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > blindlaw: > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/chatter8712%40gmail.com > > > > > -- > -Shane > Website: http://www.blind-geek.com > AIM: inhaddict > MSN: shane at blind-geek.com > Skype: chatter8712 > Twitter: blind_geek > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mikefry79%40gmail.com > From roddj12 at hotmail.com Tue Mar 31 00:11:51 2009 From: roddj12 at hotmail.com (Rod Alcidonis) Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2009 20:11:51 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Fw: Reading Rights Coalition Urges Authors to Allow Everyone Access to E-books In-Reply-To: <02D7D05D-7EE8-4D75-A7F1-05A1096E94B4@zufelt.ca> References: <40DB1C3BA7A1407E83E3E7A85D0E24FE@labarre> <8c58e54a0903301021m44094b44q5bcb7e72ab209a59@mail.gmail.com> <02D7D05D-7EE8-4D75-A7F1-05A1096E94B4@zufelt.ca> Message-ID: I can't tell you how much I hate it when a legal issue is seriously being debated on this list and someone comes along with a statement that is at best, uninformed. The current issue is not even close to a bookshare situation. I am afraid that this listserv might soon loses its character as a legal forum for blind legal professionals. Sad. Rod Alcidonis  Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009. Roger Williams University School of Law 10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 Bristol, RI 02809 Home: (401) 824-8685 Cell: (718) 704-4651  E-mail: roddj12 at hotmail.com -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of E.J. Zufelt Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 6:15 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Fw: Reading Rights Coalition Urges Authors to Allow Everyone Access to E-books Is it immoral for Bookshare to require registration aswell? Everett On 30-Mar-09, at 2:21 PM, Michael Fry wrote: > It is awesome that so many organizations are coalescing around such > a noble > and worthy cause. > > The Guilds position is immoral since it is infringes on human rights > and dignity because it exploits, for profit, a vulnerable minority > of the > population. Requiring the disabled to 'register' - like some kind > of inferior animal - in order to use new, free, and > innovative text-to-speech technology places an unnecessary obstacle > in path > of people with disablities. This obstacle is desgined solely to > exploit > money from people without the time or inclination or, who are too > embarrassed to register, as a text disabled individuals. They are > attempting to bully extra profits out of people with disabilities. > The > Guild, comprised of enlightened and educated individuals, should be > ashamed > since there is no explanation other than immoral greed for their > position. > > > On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 9:16 AM, Scott C. LaBarre > wrote: > >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Freeh, Jessica >> To: Alpidio Rolon ; Amy Buresh ; Anil Lewis ; Art Schreiber ; Beth >> Rival ; >> Bob Kresmer ; Carl Jacobsen ; Cathy Jackson ; Charlene Smyth ; >> Christine G. >> Hall ; Daniel Burke ; David Ticchi ; Don Galloway ; Donna Wood ; >> Elsie Lamp >> ; Frank Lee ; Franklin Shiner ; Fred Schroeder ; Fred Wurtzel ; >> Gary Ray ; >> Gary Wunder ; J.W. Smith ; James Antonacci ; James Broadnax ; >> Jennelle >> Bichler ; Jennifer Dunnam ; Jerree Harris ; Joe Ruffalo ; John >> Batron ; John >> Fritz ; Joyce Scanlan ; Kathy Davis ; Ken Rollman ; Kevan Worley ; >> Marie >> Johnson ; Mary Willows ; Melissa Riccobono ; Michael Barber ; Michael >> Freeman ; Nani Fife ; Pam Allen ; Parnell Diggs ; Patti Chang ; >> Richard >> Bennett ; Richard Gaffney ; Ron Brown ; Ron Gardner ; Sam Gleese ; >> Scott >> LaBarre ; Selena Sundling-Crawford ; Steven Priddle ; Terri Rupp ; >> Tommy >> Craig >> Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 7:09 AM >> Subject: Reading Rights Coalition Urges Authors to Allow Everyone >> Access to >> E-books >> >> >> FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE >> >> >> CONTACT: >> >> Chris Danielsen >> >> Director of Public Relations >> >> National Federation of the Blind >> >> (410) 659-9314, ext. 2330 >> >> (410) 262-1281 (Cell) >> cdanielsen at nfb.org >> >> >> >> Reading Rights Coalition Urges Authors to Allow >> Everyone Access to E-books >> >> >> >> Informational Protest to be Held at Authors Guild Headquarters >> >> >> >> New York City (March 30, 2009): The Reading Rights Coalition, which >> represents people who cannot read print, will protest the >> threatened removal >> of the text-to-speech function from e-books for the Amazon Kindle 2 >> outside >> the Authors Guild headquarters in New York City at 31 East 32nd >> Street on >> April 7, 2009, from noon to 2:00 p.m. The coalition includes the >> blind, >> people with dyslexia, people with learning or processing issues, >> seniors >> losing vision, people with spinal cord injuries, people recovering >> from >> strokes, and many others for whom the addition of text-to-speech on >> the >> Kindle 2 promised for the first time easy, mainstream access to >> over 245,000 >> books. >> >> >> >> When Amazon released the Kindle 2 electronic book reader on >> February 9, >> 2009, the company announced that the device would be able to read e- >> books >> aloud using text-to-speech technology. Under pressure from the >> Authors >> Guild, Amazon has announced that it will give authors and >> publishers the >> ability to disable the text-to-speech function on any or all of their >> e-books available for the Kindle 2. >> >> >> >> Dr. Marc Maurer, President of the National Federation of the Blind, >> said: >> "The blind and print-disabled have for years utilized text-to-speech >> technology to read and access information. As technology advances >> and more >> books move from hard-copy print to electronic formats, people with >> print >> disabilities have for the first time in history the opportunity to >> enjoy >> access to books on an equal basis with those who can read print. >> Authors >> and publishers who elect to disable text-to-speech for their e- >> books on the >> Kindle 2 prevent people who are blind or have >> >> other print disabilities from reading these e-books. This is blatant >> discrimination and we will not tolerate it." >> >> >> >> Mike Shuttic, president of the Association on Higher Education and >> Disability (AHEAD), said: "AHEAD envisions educational and societal >> environments that value disability and embody equality of >> opportunity. This >> vision of AHEAD is directly aligned with the efforts of this >> coalition. >> Although much rhetoric is made about potential obstacles and >> problems that >> exist, the basic goal is clear and simple--access for everyone. >> And why >> create something that prevents it?" >> >> >> >> Mitch Pomerantz, president of the American Council of the Blind, >> said: >> "Removing the text-to-speech features closes the door on an >> innovative >> technological solution that would make regular print books >> available to tens >> of thousands of individuals who are blind or visually impaired." >> >> >> >> Andrew Imparato, President and Chief Executive Officer for the >> American >> Association of People with Disabilities (AAPD), said: "It is >> outrageous when >> a technology device shuts out people with all kinds of >> disabilities. AAPD >> works to remove barriers to accessibility and usability in >> technology, and >> we don't expect to see people with disabilities singled out by >> having to pay >> more for access. New technologies, such as electronic books, >> should be >> available to everyone regardless of disability." >> >> Paul Schroeder, vice president of programs and policy for the >> American >> Foundation for the Blind, said: "Those of us with print >> disabilities have >> long dreamed of a world in which books and media are available to >> us at the >> same time as everyone else. The Kindle 2 offers that possibility >> for the >> first time. We hope publishers and authors come to see that text- >> to-speech >> is simply an alternative means of access to print." >> >> Dr. Peter Blanck, chairman and university professor at Burton Blatt >> Institute at Syracuse University, said: "As electronic books become >> the >> norm, denying universal access will result in more and more people >> with >> disabilities being left out of education, employment, and the >> societal >> conversation. We will all suffer from the absence of their >> participation >> and contribution to the debates that occupy us as a society." >> >> >> >> George Kerscher of the Digital Accessible Information System (DAISY) >> Consortium, said: "The DAISY Consortium envisions a world where >> people with >> print disabilities have equal access to information and knowledge, >> without >> delay or additional expense. Authors and publishers surely must >> share this >> vision. Now that the issue of human rights has been explained, and >> the >> opportunity for larger sales are known, I urge the Authors Guild to >> reverse >> their position on text-to-speech and join us in actively >> encouraging all >> publishers and reading technology developers to open the world of >> reading to >> everybody. Authors, join us on the picket line." >> >> >> >> >> >> Steve Jacobs, president of IDEAL Group Inc., said, "Not only is >> text-to-speech important to people who are blind, it is critical in >> providing quality educations to millions of young people who rely on >> text-to-speech to learn effectively. This includes students with >> autism, >> learning disabilities, mobility disabilities, and cognitive >> disabilities >> that impact their ability to acquire information with their eyes >> only. I >> remain hopeful that the talented members of the Authors Guild come to >> understand the potential negative impact of disabling the text-to- >> speech >> function on their e-books and reconsider their position." >> >> >> >> Cynthia D. Waddell, executive director of the International Center >> for >> Disability Resources on the Internet (ICDRI), said: "The mission >> of ICDRI >> supports the removal of barriers in electronic and information >> technology >> and the promotion of equal access. ICDRI welcomes the text-to-speech >> functionality being offered by the Kindle 2 since it increases >> mainstream >> access to books for the first time in history. We question why the >> Authors >> Guild demands that it be turned it off since many more books would >> be sold >> if text-to-speech was turned back on. Not only >> >> does this feature benefit persons with disabilities, but it also >> helps >> persons for whom English is not their native language. In an >> increasingly >> mobile society, flexibility in access to content improves the >> quality of >> life for everyone." >> >> >> >> James Love, director of Knowledge Ecology International, said: >> "Knowing >> full well that not everyone can see, the Authors Guild wants the >> right to be >> seen, but not heard. By bullying Amazon to change the technology >> of Kindle >> 2, the Authors Guild will either deny access to people who are >> disabled, or >> make them pay more. By attacking disabled persons in this way, the >> Authors >> Guild is attacking everyone who would otherwise benefit from the >> contributions this community has the potential to offer." >> >> >> >> James H. Wendorf, executive director for the National Center for >> Learning >> Disabilities, said: "Access to the written word is the cornerstone of >> education and democracy. New technologies must serve individuals >> with >> disabilities, not impede them. Our homes, schools and ultimately our >> economy rely on support for the future, not discriminating >> practices and >> beliefs from the past." >> >> While the Kindle 2 is not currently accessible to blind users, Amazon >> recently announced on its Kindle 2 blog that it is currently at >> work on >> making the device's navigational features accessible to the blind. >> >> >> >> The coalition includes: American Association of People with >> Disabilities, >> American Council of the Blind, American Foundation for the Blind, >> Association on Higher Education and Disability, Bazelon Center for >> Mental >> Health Law, Burton Blatt Institute, Digital Accessible Information >> System >> (DAISY) Consortium, Disability Rights Education and Defense Fund >> (DREDF), >> IDEAL Group, Inc., International Center for Disability Resources on >> the >> Internet, International Dyslexia Association, International Dyslexia >> Association--New York Branch, Knowledge Ecology International, >> Learning >> Disabilities Association of America, National Center for Learning >> Disabilities, National Disability Rights Network, National >> Federation of the >> Blind, NISH, and the National Spinal Cord Injury Association. In >> addition >> to the April 7 New York City protest, the coalition will >> participate in the >> Los Angeles Times Festival of Books on April 25-26. >> >> >> >> ### >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mikefry79%40gmail. com >> > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/everett%40zufelt.c a _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail. com From everett at zufelt.ca Tue Mar 31 01:02:07 2009 From: everett at zufelt.ca (E.J. Zufelt) Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2009 22:02:07 -0300 Subject: [blindlaw] Fw: Reading Rights Coalition Urges Authors to Allow Everyone Access to E-books In-Reply-To: References: <40DB1C3BA7A1407E83E3E7A85D0E24FE@labarre> <8c58e54a0903301021m44094b44q5bcb7e72ab209a59@mail.gmail.com> <02D7D05D-7EE8-4D75-A7F1-05A1096E94B4@zufelt.ca> Message-ID: <350259D0-F452-4768-AB76-04A29D84F0C3@zufelt.ca> Good evening, One part of the argument was that: "The Guilds position is immoral since it is infringes on human rights and dignity because it exploits, for profit, a vulnerable minority > >> of the population. Requiring the disabled to 'register' - like >> some kind >> of inferior animal - in order to use new, free, and innovative text- >> to-speech technology...". Understandably Bookshare.org is not for profit, however, the strongest words in the above citation are related to having to "...register' - like some kind of inferior animal...". If the registration requirement for one service is acceptable how can the registration requirement for a similar, but recognizably different, service been seen as treating people like "inferior animals"? I agree that a method needs to be found to accommodate the needs of all involved and to respect all current laws and the right of access to information for the text-impaired population. However, the "inferior animals" argument does not seem to have much foundation in the facts. Perhaps the best solution is to require digital media distributors to leave their publications unlocked for all readers, to ensure the most open access to information for the text-impaired, "inferior animals" does not seem to add any weight to the legal argument on either side of this issue. Thanks, Everett On 30-Mar-09, at 9:11 PM, Rod Alcidonis wrote: > I can't tell you how much I hate it when a legal issue is seriously > being > debated on this list and someone comes along with a statement that > is at > best, uninformed. The current issue is not even close to a bookshare > situation. I am afraid that this listserv might soon loses its > character > as a legal forum for blind legal professionals. Sad. > > Rod Alcidonis > Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009. > Roger Williams University School of Law > 10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 > Bristol, RI 02809 > Home: (401) 824-8685 > Cell: (718) 704-4651 > E-mail: roddj12 at hotmail.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw- > bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of E.J. Zufelt > Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 6:15 PM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Fw: Reading Rights Coalition Urges Authors > to Allow > Everyone Access to E-books > > Is it immoral for Bookshare to require registration aswell? > > Everett > > > On 30-Mar-09, at 2:21 PM, Michael Fry wrote: > >> It is awesome that so many organizations are coalescing around such >> a noble >> and worthy cause. >> >> The Guilds position is immoral since it is infringes on human rights >> and dignity because it exploits, for profit, a vulnerable minority >> of the >> population. Requiring the disabled to 'register' - like some kind >> of inferior animal - in order to use new, free, and >> innovative text-to-speech technology places an unnecessary obstacle >> in path >> of people with disablities. This obstacle is desgined solely to >> exploit >> money from people without the time or inclination or, who are too >> embarrassed to register, as a text disabled individuals. They are >> attempting to bully extra profits out of people with disabilities. >> The >> Guild, comprised of enlightened and educated individuals, should be >> ashamed >> since there is no explanation other than immoral greed for their >> position. >> >> >> On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 9:16 AM, Scott C. LaBarre >> wrote: >> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: Freeh, Jessica >>> To: Alpidio Rolon ; Amy Buresh ; Anil Lewis ; Art Schreiber ; Beth >>> Rival ; >>> Bob Kresmer ; Carl Jacobsen ; Cathy Jackson ; Charlene Smyth ; >>> Christine G. >>> Hall ; Daniel Burke ; David Ticchi ; Don Galloway ; Donna Wood ; >>> Elsie Lamp >>> ; Frank Lee ; Franklin Shiner ; Fred Schroeder ; Fred Wurtzel ; >>> Gary Ray ; >>> Gary Wunder ; J.W. Smith ; James Antonacci ; James Broadnax ; >>> Jennelle >>> Bichler ; Jennifer Dunnam ; Jerree Harris ; Joe Ruffalo ; John >>> Batron ; John >>> Fritz ; Joyce Scanlan ; Kathy Davis ; Ken Rollman ; Kevan Worley ; >>> Marie >>> Johnson ; Mary Willows ; Melissa Riccobono ; Michael Barber ; >>> Michael >>> Freeman ; Nani Fife ; Pam Allen ; Parnell Diggs ; Patti Chang ; >>> Richard >>> Bennett ; Richard Gaffney ; Ron Brown ; Ron Gardner ; Sam Gleese ; >>> Scott >>> LaBarre ; Selena Sundling-Crawford ; Steven Priddle ; Terri Rupp ; >>> Tommy >>> Craig >>> Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 7:09 AM >>> Subject: Reading Rights Coalition Urges Authors to Allow Everyone >>> Access to >>> E-books >>> >>> >>> FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE >>> >>> >>> CONTACT: >>> >>> Chris Danielsen >>> >>> Director of Public Relations >>> >>> National Federation of the Blind >>> >>> (410) 659-9314, ext. 2330 >>> >>> (410) 262-1281 (Cell) >>> cdanielsen at nfb.org >>> >>> >>> >>> Reading Rights Coalition Urges Authors to Allow >>> Everyone Access to E-books >>> >>> >>> >>> Informational Protest to be Held at Authors Guild Headquarters >>> >>> >>> >>> New York City (March 30, 2009): The Reading Rights Coalition, which >>> represents people who cannot read print, will protest the >>> threatened removal >>> of the text-to-speech function from e-books for the Amazon Kindle 2 >>> outside >>> the Authors Guild headquarters in New York City at 31 East 32nd >>> Street on >>> April 7, 2009, from noon to 2:00 p.m. The coalition includes the >>> blind, >>> people with dyslexia, people with learning or processing issues, >>> seniors >>> losing vision, people with spinal cord injuries, people recovering >>> from >>> strokes, and many others for whom the addition of text-to-speech on >>> the >>> Kindle 2 promised for the first time easy, mainstream access to >>> over 245,000 >>> books. >>> >>> >>> >>> When Amazon released the Kindle 2 electronic book reader on >>> February 9, >>> 2009, the company announced that the device would be able to read e- >>> books >>> aloud using text-to-speech technology. Under pressure from the >>> Authors >>> Guild, Amazon has announced that it will give authors and >>> publishers the >>> ability to disable the text-to-speech function on any or all of >>> their >>> e-books available for the Kindle 2. >>> >>> >>> >>> Dr. Marc Maurer, President of the National Federation of the Blind, >>> said: >>> "The blind and print-disabled have for years utilized text-to-speech >>> technology to read and access information. As technology advances >>> and more >>> books move from hard-copy print to electronic formats, people with >>> print >>> disabilities have for the first time in history the opportunity to >>> enjoy >>> access to books on an equal basis with those who can read print. >>> Authors >>> and publishers who elect to disable text-to-speech for their e- >>> books on the >>> Kindle 2 prevent people who are blind or have >>> >>> other print disabilities from reading these e-books. This is >>> blatant >>> discrimination and we will not tolerate it." >>> >>> >>> >>> Mike Shuttic, president of the Association on Higher Education and >>> Disability (AHEAD), said: "AHEAD envisions educational and societal >>> environments that value disability and embody equality of >>> opportunity. This >>> vision of AHEAD is directly aligned with the efforts of this >>> coalition. >>> Although much rhetoric is made about potential obstacles and >>> problems that >>> exist, the basic goal is clear and simple--access for everyone. >>> And why >>> create something that prevents it?" >>> >>> >>> >>> Mitch Pomerantz, president of the American Council of the Blind, >>> said: >>> "Removing the text-to-speech features closes the door on an >>> innovative >>> technological solution that would make regular print books >>> available to tens >>> of thousands of individuals who are blind or visually impaired." >>> >>> >>> >>> Andrew Imparato, President and Chief Executive Officer for the >>> American >>> Association of People with Disabilities (AAPD), said: "It is >>> outrageous when >>> a technology device shuts out people with all kinds of >>> disabilities. AAPD >>> works to remove barriers to accessibility and usability in >>> technology, and >>> we don't expect to see people with disabilities singled out by >>> having to pay >>> more for access. New technologies, such as electronic books, >>> should be >>> available to everyone regardless of disability." >>> >>> Paul Schroeder, vice president of programs and policy for the >>> American >>> Foundation for the Blind, said: "Those of us with print >>> disabilities have >>> long dreamed of a world in which books and media are available to >>> us at the >>> same time as everyone else. The Kindle 2 offers that possibility >>> for the >>> first time. We hope publishers and authors come to see that text- >>> to-speech >>> is simply an alternative means of access to print." >>> >>> Dr. Peter Blanck, chairman and university professor at Burton Blatt >>> Institute at Syracuse University, said: "As electronic books become >>> the >>> norm, denying universal access will result in more and more people >>> with >>> disabilities being left out of education, employment, and the >>> societal >>> conversation. We will all suffer from the absence of their >>> participation >>> and contribution to the debates that occupy us as a society." >>> >>> >>> >>> George Kerscher of the Digital Accessible Information System (DAISY) >>> Consortium, said: "The DAISY Consortium envisions a world where >>> people with >>> print disabilities have equal access to information and knowledge, >>> without >>> delay or additional expense. Authors and publishers surely must >>> share this >>> vision. Now that the issue of human rights has been explained, and >>> the >>> opportunity for larger sales are known, I urge the Authors Guild to >>> reverse >>> their position on text-to-speech and join us in actively >>> encouraging all >>> publishers and reading technology developers to open the world of >>> reading to >>> everybody. Authors, join us on the picket line." >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Steve Jacobs, president of IDEAL Group Inc., said, "Not only is >>> text-to-speech important to people who are blind, it is critical in >>> providing quality educations to millions of young people who rely on >>> text-to-speech to learn effectively. This includes students with >>> autism, >>> learning disabilities, mobility disabilities, and cognitive >>> disabilities >>> that impact their ability to acquire information with their eyes >>> only. I >>> remain hopeful that the talented members of the Authors Guild come >>> to >>> understand the potential negative impact of disabling the text-to- >>> speech >>> function on their e-books and reconsider their position." >>> >>> >>> >>> Cynthia D. Waddell, executive director of the International Center >>> for >>> Disability Resources on the Internet (ICDRI), said: "The mission >>> of ICDRI >>> supports the removal of barriers in electronic and information >>> technology >>> and the promotion of equal access. ICDRI welcomes the text-to- >>> speech >>> functionality being offered by the Kindle 2 since it increases >>> mainstream >>> access to books for the first time in history. We question why the >>> Authors >>> Guild demands that it be turned it off since many more books would >>> be sold >>> if text-to-speech was turned back on. Not only >>> >>> does this feature benefit persons with disabilities, but it also >>> helps >>> persons for whom English is not their native language. In an >>> increasingly >>> mobile society, flexibility in access to content improves the >>> quality of >>> life for everyone." >>> >>> >>> >>> James Love, director of Knowledge Ecology International, said: >>> "Knowing >>> full well that not everyone can see, the Authors Guild wants the >>> right to be >>> seen, but not heard. By bullying Amazon to change the technology >>> of Kindle >>> 2, the Authors Guild will either deny access to people who are >>> disabled, or >>> make them pay more. By attacking disabled persons in this way, the >>> Authors >>> Guild is attacking everyone who would otherwise benefit from the >>> contributions this community has the potential to offer." >>> >>> >>> >>> James H. Wendorf, executive director for the National Center for >>> Learning >>> Disabilities, said: "Access to the written word is the cornerstone >>> of >>> education and democracy. New technologies must serve individuals >>> with >>> disabilities, not impede them. Our homes, schools and ultimately >>> our >>> economy rely on support for the future, not discriminating >>> practices and >>> beliefs from the past." >>> >>> While the Kindle 2 is not currently accessible to blind users, >>> Amazon >>> recently announced on its Kindle 2 blog that it is currently at >>> work on >>> making the device's navigational features accessible to the blind. >>> >>> >>> >>> The coalition includes: American Association of People with >>> Disabilities, >>> American Council of the Blind, American Foundation for the Blind, >>> Association on Higher Education and Disability, Bazelon Center for >>> Mental >>> Health Law, Burton Blatt Institute, Digital Accessible Information >>> System >>> (DAISY) Consortium, Disability Rights Education and Defense Fund >>> (DREDF), >>> IDEAL Group, Inc., International Center for Disability Resources on >>> the >>> Internet, International Dyslexia Association, International Dyslexia >>> Association--New York Branch, Knowledge Ecology International, >>> Learning >>> Disabilities Association of America, National Center for Learning >>> Disabilities, National Disability Rights Network, National >>> Federation of the >>> Blind, NISH, and the National Spinal Cord Injury Association. In >>> addition >>> to the April 7 New York City protest, the coalition will >>> participate in the >>> Los Angeles Times Festival of Books on April 25-26. >>> >>> >>> >>> ### >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> blindlaw: >>> >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mikefry79%40gmail > . > com >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for blindlaw: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/everett%40zufelt.c > a > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail > . > com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/everett%40zufelt.ca From cdanielsen8 at aol.com Tue Mar 31 01:12:57 2009 From: cdanielsen8 at aol.com (Chris Danielsen) Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2009 21:12:57 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Fw: Reading Rights Coalition Urges Authors to AllowEveryone Access to E-books In-Reply-To: <7556b95a0903301147s5ef9d3b9ubf43957bd3e1787d@mail.gmail.com> References: <40DB1C3BA7A1407E83E3E7A85D0E24FE@labarre><8c58e54a0903301021m44094b44q5bcb7e72ab209a59@mail.gmail.com> <7556b95a0903301147s5ef9d3b9ubf43957bd3e1787d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <682E6BAAC17F4FE29F65138991E41E72@Scorpio13> The NFB has communicated directly with the Authors Guild. They have told us that they are willing for the TTS to be turned on for the disabled and no one else if there is a national registry of those with print disabilities. When we told them that this is unacceptable, they suggested that those who want to have books read aloud should pay a surcharge. Chris -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Shane D Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 2:48 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Fw: Reading Rights Coalition Urges Authors to AllowEveryone Access to E-books I may have missed it, but where did you come up with the registering and paying extra? The issue is that they can just turn off the reading for all. On 3/30/09, Michael Fry wrote: > It is awesome that so many organizations are coalescing around such a noble > and worthy cause. > > The Guilds position is immoral since it is infringes on human rights > and dignity because it exploits, for profit, a vulnerable minority of the > population. Requiring the disabled to 'register' - like some kind > of inferior animal - in order to use new, free, and > innovative text-to-speech technology places an unnecessary obstacle in path > of people with disablities. This obstacle is desgined solely to exploit > money from people without the time or inclination or, who are too > embarrassed to register, as a text disabled individuals. They are > attempting to bully extra profits out of people with disabilities. The > Guild, comprised of enlightened and educated individuals, should be ashamed > since there is no explanation other than immoral greed for their position. > > > On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 9:16 AM, Scott C. LaBarre > wrote: > >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Freeh, Jessica >> To: Alpidio Rolon ; Amy Buresh ; Anil Lewis ; Art Schreiber ; Beth Rival ; >> Bob Kresmer ; Carl Jacobsen ; Cathy Jackson ; Charlene Smyth ; Christine >> G. >> Hall ; Daniel Burke ; David Ticchi ; Don Galloway ; Donna Wood ; Elsie >> Lamp >> ; Frank Lee ; Franklin Shiner ; Fred Schroeder ; Fred Wurtzel ; Gary Ray ; >> Gary Wunder ; J.W. Smith ; James Antonacci ; James Broadnax ; Jennelle >> Bichler ; Jennifer Dunnam ; Jerree Harris ; Joe Ruffalo ; John Batron ; >> John >> Fritz ; Joyce Scanlan ; Kathy Davis ; Ken Rollman ; Kevan Worley ; Marie >> Johnson ; Mary Willows ; Melissa Riccobono ; Michael Barber ; Michael >> Freeman ; Nani Fife ; Pam Allen ; Parnell Diggs ; Patti Chang ; Richard >> Bennett ; Richard Gaffney ; Ron Brown ; Ron Gardner ; Sam Gleese ; Scott >> LaBarre ; Selena Sundling-Crawford ; Steven Priddle ; Terri Rupp ; Tommy >> Craig >> Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 7:09 AM >> Subject: Reading Rights Coalition Urges Authors to Allow Everyone Access >> to >> E-books >> >> >> FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE >> >> >> CONTACT: >> >> Chris Danielsen >> >> Director of Public Relations >> >> National Federation of the Blind >> >> (410) 659-9314, ext. 2330 >> >> (410) 262-1281 (Cell) >> cdanielsen at nfb.org >> >> >> >> Reading Rights Coalition Urges Authors to Allow >> Everyone Access to E-books >> >> >> >> Informational Protest to be Held at Authors Guild Headquarters >> >> >> >> New York City (March 30, 2009): The Reading Rights Coalition, which >> represents people who cannot read print, will protest the threatened >> removal >> of the text-to-speech function from e-books for the Amazon Kindle 2 >> outside >> the Authors Guild headquarters in New York City at 31 East 32nd Street on >> April 7, 2009, from noon to 2:00 p.m. The coalition includes the blind, >> people with dyslexia, people with learning or processing issues, seniors >> losing vision, people with spinal cord injuries, people recovering from >> strokes, and many others for whom the addition of text-to-speech on the >> Kindle 2 promised for the first time easy, mainstream access to over >> 245,000 >> books. >> >> >> >> When Amazon released the Kindle 2 electronic book reader on February 9, >> 2009, the company announced that the device would be able to read e-books >> aloud using text-to-speech technology. Under pressure from the Authors >> Guild, Amazon has announced that it will give authors and publishers the >> ability to disable the text-to-speech function on any or all of their >> e-books available for the Kindle 2. >> >> >> >> Dr. Marc Maurer, President of the National Federation of the Blind, said: >> "The blind and print-disabled have for years utilized text-to-speech >> technology to read and access information. As technology advances and >> more >> books move from hard-copy print to electronic formats, people with print >> disabilities have for the first time in history the opportunity to enjoy >> access to books on an equal basis with those who can read print. Authors >> and publishers who elect to disable text-to-speech for their e-books on >> the >> Kindle 2 prevent people who are blind or have >> >> other print disabilities from reading these e-books. This is blatant >> discrimination and we will not tolerate it." >> >> >> >> Mike Shuttic, president of the Association on Higher Education and >> Disability (AHEAD), said: "AHEAD envisions educational and societal >> environments that value disability and embody equality of opportunity. >> This >> vision of AHEAD is directly aligned with the efforts of this coalition. >> Although much rhetoric is made about potential obstacles and problems >> that >> exist, the basic goal is clear and simple--access for everyone. And why >> create something that prevents it?" >> >> >> >> Mitch Pomerantz, president of the American Council of the Blind, said: >> "Removing the text-to-speech features closes the door on an innovative >> technological solution that would make regular print books available to >> tens >> of thousands of individuals who are blind or visually impaired." >> >> >> >> Andrew Imparato, President and Chief Executive Officer for the American >> Association of People with Disabilities (AAPD), said: "It is outrageous >> when >> a technology device shuts out people with all kinds of disabilities. AAPD >> works to remove barriers to accessibility and usability in technology, and >> we don't expect to see people with disabilities singled out by having to >> pay >> more for access. New technologies, such as electronic books, should be >> available to everyone regardless of disability." >> >> Paul Schroeder, vice president of programs and policy for the American >> Foundation for the Blind, said: "Those of us with print disabilities have >> long dreamed of a world in which books and media are available to us at >> the >> same time as everyone else. The Kindle 2 offers that possibility for the >> first time. We hope publishers and authors come to see that >> text-to-speech >> is simply an alternative means of access to print." >> >> Dr. Peter Blanck, chairman and university professor at Burton Blatt >> Institute at Syracuse University, said: "As electronic books become the >> norm, denying universal access will result in more and more people with >> disabilities being left out of education, employment, and the societal >> conversation. We will all suffer from the absence of their participation >> and contribution to the debates that occupy us as a society." >> >> >> >> George Kerscher of the Digital Accessible Information System (DAISY) >> Consortium, said: "The DAISY Consortium envisions a world where people >> with >> print disabilities have equal access to information and knowledge, without >> delay or additional expense. Authors and publishers surely must share >> this >> vision. Now that the issue of human rights has been explained, and the >> opportunity for larger sales are known, I urge the Authors Guild to >> reverse >> their position on text-to-speech and join us in actively encouraging all >> publishers and reading technology developers to open the world of reading >> to >> everybody. Authors, join us on the picket line." >> >> >> >> >> >> Steve Jacobs, president of IDEAL Group Inc., said, "Not only is >> text-to-speech important to people who are blind, it is critical in >> providing quality educations to millions of young people who rely on >> text-to-speech to learn effectively. This includes students with autism, >> learning disabilities, mobility disabilities, and cognitive disabilities >> that impact their ability to acquire information with their eyes only. I >> remain hopeful that the talented members of the Authors Guild come to >> understand the potential negative impact of disabling the text-to-speech >> function on their e-books and reconsider their position." >> >> >> >> Cynthia D. Waddell, executive director of the International Center for >> Disability Resources on the Internet (ICDRI), said: "The mission of ICDRI >> supports the removal of barriers in electronic and information technology >> and the promotion of equal access. ICDRI welcomes the text-to-speech >> functionality being offered by the Kindle 2 since it increases mainstream >> access to books for the first time in history. We question why the >> Authors >> Guild demands that it be turned it off since many more books would be sold >> if text-to-speech was turned back on. Not only >> >> does this feature benefit persons with disabilities, but it also helps >> persons for whom English is not their native language. In an increasingly >> mobile society, flexibility in access to content improves the quality of >> life for everyone." >> >> >> >> James Love, director of Knowledge Ecology International, said: "Knowing >> full well that not everyone can see, the Authors Guild wants the right to >> be >> seen, but not heard. By bullying Amazon to change the technology of >> Kindle >> 2, the Authors Guild will either deny access to people who are disabled, >> or >> make them pay more. By attacking disabled persons in this way, the >> Authors >> Guild is attacking everyone who would otherwise benefit from the >> contributions this community has the potential to offer." >> >> >> >> James H. Wendorf, executive director for the National Center for Learning >> Disabilities, said: "Access to the written word is the cornerstone of >> education and democracy. New technologies must serve individuals with >> disabilities, not impede them. Our homes, schools and ultimately our >> economy rely on support for the future, not discriminating practices and >> beliefs from the past." >> >> While the Kindle 2 is not currently accessible to blind users, Amazon >> recently announced on its Kindle 2 blog that it is currently at work on >> making the device's navigational features accessible to the blind. >> >> >> >> The coalition includes: American Association of People with Disabilities, >> American Council of the Blind, American Foundation for the Blind, >> Association on Higher Education and Disability, Bazelon Center for Mental >> Health Law, Burton Blatt Institute, Digital Accessible Information System >> (DAISY) Consortium, Disability Rights Education and Defense Fund (DREDF), >> IDEAL Group, Inc., International Center for Disability Resources on the >> Internet, International Dyslexia Association, International Dyslexia >> Association--New York Branch, Knowledge Ecology International, Learning >> Disabilities Association of America, National Center for Learning >> Disabilities, National Disability Rights Network, National Federation of >> the >> Blind, NISH, and the National Spinal Cord Injury Association. In addition >> to the April 7 New York City protest, the coalition will participate in >> the >> Los Angeles Times Festival of Books on April 25-26. >> >> >> >> ### >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mikefry79%40gmail. com >> > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/chatter8712%40gmai l.com > -- -Shane Website: http://www.blind-geek.com AIM: inhaddict MSN: shane at blind-geek.com Skype: chatter8712 Twitter: blind_geek _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3976 (20090330) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3976 (20090330) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From cdanielsen8 at aol.com Tue Mar 31 01:17:12 2009 From: cdanielsen8 at aol.com (Chris Danielsen) Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2009 21:17:12 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Fw: Reading Rights Coalition Urges Authors to AllowEveryone Access to E-books In-Reply-To: <02D7D05D-7EE8-4D75-A7F1-05A1096E94B4@zufelt.ca> References: <40DB1C3BA7A1407E83E3E7A85D0E24FE@labarre><8c58e54a0903301021m44094b44q5bcb7e72ab209a59@mail.gmail.com> <02D7D05D-7EE8-4D75-A7F1-05A1096E94B4@zufelt.ca> Message-ID: <3632128BE00345E7A3A982C3407FA5DC@Scorpio13> With Bookshare, you're not paying for the books you download. By contrast, if I buy a book like everyone else, it's nobody's business how I read it or why I'm reading it that way. Chris -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of E.J. Zufelt Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 6:15 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Fw: Reading Rights Coalition Urges Authors to AllowEveryone Access to E-books Is it immoral for Bookshare to require registration aswell? Everett On 30-Mar-09, at 2:21 PM, Michael Fry wrote: > It is awesome that so many organizations are coalescing around such > a noble > and worthy cause. > > The Guilds position is immoral since it is infringes on human rights > and dignity because it exploits, for profit, a vulnerable minority > of the > population. Requiring the disabled to 'register' - like some kind > of inferior animal - in order to use new, free, and > innovative text-to-speech technology places an unnecessary obstacle > in path > of people with disablities. This obstacle is desgined solely to > exploit > money from people without the time or inclination or, who are too > embarrassed to register, as a text disabled individuals. They are > attempting to bully extra profits out of people with disabilities. > The > Guild, comprised of enlightened and educated individuals, should be > ashamed > since there is no explanation other than immoral greed for their > position. > > > On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 9:16 AM, Scott C. LaBarre > wrote: > >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Freeh, Jessica >> To: Alpidio Rolon ; Amy Buresh ; Anil Lewis ; Art Schreiber ; Beth >> Rival ; >> Bob Kresmer ; Carl Jacobsen ; Cathy Jackson ; Charlene Smyth ; >> Christine G. >> Hall ; Daniel Burke ; David Ticchi ; Don Galloway ; Donna Wood ; >> Elsie Lamp >> ; Frank Lee ; Franklin Shiner ; Fred Schroeder ; Fred Wurtzel ; >> Gary Ray ; >> Gary Wunder ; J.W. Smith ; James Antonacci ; James Broadnax ; >> Jennelle >> Bichler ; Jennifer Dunnam ; Jerree Harris ; Joe Ruffalo ; John >> Batron ; John >> Fritz ; Joyce Scanlan ; Kathy Davis ; Ken Rollman ; Kevan Worley ; >> Marie >> Johnson ; Mary Willows ; Melissa Riccobono ; Michael Barber ; Michael >> Freeman ; Nani Fife ; Pam Allen ; Parnell Diggs ; Patti Chang ; >> Richard >> Bennett ; Richard Gaffney ; Ron Brown ; Ron Gardner ; Sam Gleese ; >> Scott >> LaBarre ; Selena Sundling-Crawford ; Steven Priddle ; Terri Rupp ; >> Tommy >> Craig >> Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 7:09 AM >> Subject: Reading Rights Coalition Urges Authors to Allow Everyone >> Access to >> E-books >> >> >> FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE >> >> >> CONTACT: >> >> Chris Danielsen >> >> Director of Public Relations >> >> National Federation of the Blind >> >> (410) 659-9314, ext. 2330 >> >> (410) 262-1281 (Cell) >> cdanielsen at nfb.org >> >> >> >> Reading Rights Coalition Urges Authors to Allow >> Everyone Access to E-books >> >> >> >> Informational Protest to be Held at Authors Guild Headquarters >> >> >> >> New York City (March 30, 2009): The Reading Rights Coalition, which >> represents people who cannot read print, will protest the >> threatened removal >> of the text-to-speech function from e-books for the Amazon Kindle 2 >> outside >> the Authors Guild headquarters in New York City at 31 East 32nd >> Street on >> April 7, 2009, from noon to 2:00 p.m. The coalition includes the >> blind, >> people with dyslexia, people with learning or processing issues, >> seniors >> losing vision, people with spinal cord injuries, people recovering >> from >> strokes, and many others for whom the addition of text-to-speech on >> the >> Kindle 2 promised for the first time easy, mainstream access to >> over 245,000 >> books. >> >> >> >> When Amazon released the Kindle 2 electronic book reader on >> February 9, >> 2009, the company announced that the device would be able to read e- >> books >> aloud using text-to-speech technology. Under pressure from the >> Authors >> Guild, Amazon has announced that it will give authors and >> publishers the >> ability to disable the text-to-speech function on any or all of their >> e-books available for the Kindle 2. >> >> >> >> Dr. Marc Maurer, President of the National Federation of the Blind, >> said: >> "The blind and print-disabled have for years utilized text-to-speech >> technology to read and access information. As technology advances >> and more >> books move from hard-copy print to electronic formats, people with >> print >> disabilities have for the first time in history the opportunity to >> enjoy >> access to books on an equal basis with those who can read print. >> Authors >> and publishers who elect to disable text-to-speech for their e- >> books on the >> Kindle 2 prevent people who are blind or have >> >> other print disabilities from reading these e-books. This is blatant >> discrimination and we will not tolerate it." >> >> >> >> Mike Shuttic, president of the Association on Higher Education and >> Disability (AHEAD), said: "AHEAD envisions educational and societal >> environments that value disability and embody equality of >> opportunity. This >> vision of AHEAD is directly aligned with the efforts of this >> coalition. >> Although much rhetoric is made about potential obstacles and >> problems that >> exist, the basic goal is clear and simple--access for everyone. >> And why >> create something that prevents it?" >> >> >> >> Mitch Pomerantz, president of the American Council of the Blind, >> said: >> "Removing the text-to-speech features closes the door on an >> innovative >> technological solution that would make regular print books >> available to tens >> of thousands of individuals who are blind or visually impaired." >> >> >> >> Andrew Imparato, President and Chief Executive Officer for the >> American >> Association of People with Disabilities (AAPD), said: "It is >> outrageous when >> a technology device shuts out people with all kinds of >> disabilities. AAPD >> works to remove barriers to accessibility and usability in >> technology, and >> we don't expect to see people with disabilities singled out by >> having to pay >> more for access. New technologies, such as electronic books, >> should be >> available to everyone regardless of disability." >> >> Paul Schroeder, vice president of programs and policy for the >> American >> Foundation for the Blind, said: "Those of us with print >> disabilities have >> long dreamed of a world in which books and media are available to >> us at the >> same time as everyone else. The Kindle 2 offers that possibility >> for the >> first time. We hope publishers and authors come to see that text- >> to-speech >> is simply an alternative means of access to print." >> >> Dr. Peter Blanck, chairman and university professor at Burton Blatt >> Institute at Syracuse University, said: "As electronic books become >> the >> norm, denying universal access will result in more and more people >> with >> disabilities being left out of education, employment, and the >> societal >> conversation. We will all suffer from the absence of their >> participation >> and contribution to the debates that occupy us as a society." >> >> >> >> George Kerscher of the Digital Accessible Information System (DAISY) >> Consortium, said: "The DAISY Consortium envisions a world where >> people with >> print disabilities have equal access to information and knowledge, >> without >> delay or additional expense. Authors and publishers surely must >> share this >> vision. Now that the issue of human rights has been explained, and >> the >> opportunity for larger sales are known, I urge the Authors Guild to >> reverse >> their position on text-to-speech and join us in actively >> encouraging all >> publishers and reading technology developers to open the world of >> reading to >> everybody. Authors, join us on the picket line." >> >> >> >> >> >> Steve Jacobs, president of IDEAL Group Inc., said, "Not only is >> text-to-speech important to people who are blind, it is critical in >> providing quality educations to millions of young people who rely on >> text-to-speech to learn effectively. This includes students with >> autism, >> learning disabilities, mobility disabilities, and cognitive >> disabilities >> that impact their ability to acquire information with their eyes >> only. I >> remain hopeful that the talented members of the Authors Guild come to >> understand the potential negative impact of disabling the text-to- >> speech >> function on their e-books and reconsider their position." >> >> >> >> Cynthia D. Waddell, executive director of the International Center >> for >> Disability Resources on the Internet (ICDRI), said: "The mission >> of ICDRI >> supports the removal of barriers in electronic and information >> technology >> and the promotion of equal access. ICDRI welcomes the text-to-speech >> functionality being offered by the Kindle 2 since it increases >> mainstream >> access to books for the first time in history. We question why the >> Authors >> Guild demands that it be turned it off since many more books would >> be sold >> if text-to-speech was turned back on. Not only >> >> does this feature benefit persons with disabilities, but it also >> helps >> persons for whom English is not their native language. In an >> increasingly >> mobile society, flexibility in access to content improves the >> quality of >> life for everyone." >> >> >> >> James Love, director of Knowledge Ecology International, said: >> "Knowing >> full well that not everyone can see, the Authors Guild wants the >> right to be >> seen, but not heard. By bullying Amazon to change the technology >> of Kindle >> 2, the Authors Guild will either deny access to people who are >> disabled, or >> make them pay more. By attacking disabled persons in this way, the >> Authors >> Guild is attacking everyone who would otherwise benefit from the >> contributions this community has the potential to offer." >> >> >> >> James H. Wendorf, executive director for the National Center for >> Learning >> Disabilities, said: "Access to the written word is the cornerstone of >> education and democracy. New technologies must serve individuals >> with >> disabilities, not impede them. Our homes, schools and ultimately our >> economy rely on support for the future, not discriminating >> practices and >> beliefs from the past." >> >> While the Kindle 2 is not currently accessible to blind users, Amazon >> recently announced on its Kindle 2 blog that it is currently at >> work on >> making the device's navigational features accessible to the blind. >> >> >> >> The coalition includes: American Association of People with >> Disabilities, >> American Council of the Blind, American Foundation for the Blind, >> Association on Higher Education and Disability, Bazelon Center for >> Mental >> Health Law, Burton Blatt Institute, Digital Accessible Information >> System >> (DAISY) Consortium, Disability Rights Education and Defense Fund >> (DREDF), >> IDEAL Group, Inc., International Center for Disability Resources on >> the >> Internet, International Dyslexia Association, International Dyslexia >> Association--New York Branch, Knowledge Ecology International, >> Learning >> Disabilities Association of America, National Center for Learning >> Disabilities, National Disability Rights Network, National >> Federation of the >> Blind, NISH, and the National Spinal Cord Injury Association. In >> addition >> to the April 7 New York City protest, the coalition will >> participate in the >> Los Angeles Times Festival of Books on April 25-26. >> >> >> >> ### >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mikefry79%40gmail. com >> > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/everett%40zufelt.c a _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3976 (20090330) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3976 (20090330) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From timandvickie at hotmail.com Tue Mar 31 01:31:14 2009 From: timandvickie at hotmail.com (Tim Shaw) Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2009 01:31:14 +0000 Subject: [blindlaw] Fw: Reading Rights Coalition Urges Authors to AllowEveryone Access to E-books In-Reply-To: <682E6BAAC17F4FE29F65138991E41E72@Scorpio13> References: <40DB1C3BA7A1407E83E3E7A85D0E24FE@labarre><8c58e54a0903301021m44094b44q5bcb7e72ab209a59@mail.gmail.com> <7556b95a0903301147s5ef9d3b9ubf43957bd3e1787d@mail.gmail.com> <682E6BAAC17F4FE29F65138991E41E72@Scorpio13> Message-ID: i dont think the authors guild understand the xtreme differnce between listening to an audio book which is read by actors and involves studio time and what not to produce, and listening to text read by a synthesized,monotone voice > From: cdanielsen8 at aol.com > To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org > Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2009 21:12:57 -0400 > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Fw: Reading Rights Coalition Urges Authors to AllowEveryone Access to E-books > > The NFB has communicated directly with the Authors Guild. They have told us > that they are willing for the TTS to be turned on for the disabled and no > one else if there is a national registry of those with print disabilities. > When we told them that this is unacceptable, they suggested that those who > want to have books read aloud should pay a surcharge. > > Chris > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of Shane D > Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 2:48 PM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Fw: Reading Rights Coalition Urges Authors to > AllowEveryone Access to E-books > > I may have missed it, but where did you come up with the registering > and paying extra? The issue is that they can just turn off the reading > for all. > > On 3/30/09, Michael Fry wrote: > > It is awesome that so many organizations are coalescing around such a > noble > > and worthy cause. > > > > The Guilds position is immoral since it is infringes on human rights > > and dignity because it exploits, for profit, a vulnerable minority of the > > population. Requiring the disabled to 'register' - like some kind > > of inferior animal - in order to use new, free, and > > innovative text-to-speech technology places an unnecessary obstacle in > path > > of people with disablities. This obstacle is desgined solely to exploit > > money from people without the time or inclination or, who are too > > embarrassed to register, as a text disabled individuals. They are > > attempting to bully extra profits out of people with disabilities. The > > Guild, comprised of enlightened and educated individuals, should be > ashamed > > since there is no explanation other than immoral greed for their position. > > > > > > On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 9:16 AM, Scott C. LaBarre > > wrote: > > > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: Freeh, Jessica > >> To: Alpidio Rolon ; Amy Buresh ; Anil Lewis ; Art Schreiber ; Beth Rival > ; > >> Bob Kresmer ; Carl Jacobsen ; Cathy Jackson ; Charlene Smyth ; Christine > >> G. > >> Hall ; Daniel Burke ; David Ticchi ; Don Galloway ; Donna Wood ; Elsie > >> Lamp > >> ; Frank Lee ; Franklin Shiner ; Fred Schroeder ; Fred Wurtzel ; Gary Ray > ; > >> Gary Wunder ; J.W. Smith ; James Antonacci ; James Broadnax ; Jennelle > >> Bichler ; Jennifer Dunnam ; Jerree Harris ; Joe Ruffalo ; John Batron ; > >> John > >> Fritz ; Joyce Scanlan ; Kathy Davis ; Ken Rollman ; Kevan Worley ; Marie > >> Johnson ; Mary Willows ; Melissa Riccobono ; Michael Barber ; Michael > >> Freeman ; Nani Fife ; Pam Allen ; Parnell Diggs ; Patti Chang ; Richard > >> Bennett ; Richard Gaffney ; Ron Brown ; Ron Gardner ; Sam Gleese ; Scott > >> LaBarre ; Selena Sundling-Crawford ; Steven Priddle ; Terri Rupp ; Tommy > >> Craig > >> Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 7:09 AM > >> Subject: Reading Rights Coalition Urges Authors to Allow Everyone Access > >> to > >> E-books > >> > >> > >> FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE > >> > >> > >> CONTACT: > >> > >> Chris Danielsen > >> > >> Director of Public Relations > >> > >> National Federation of the Blind > >> > >> (410) 659-9314, ext. 2330 > >> > >> (410) 262-1281 (Cell) > >> cdanielsen at nfb.org > >> > >> > >> > >> Reading Rights Coalition Urges Authors to Allow > >> Everyone Access to E-books > >> > >> > >> > >> Informational Protest to be Held at Authors Guild Headquarters > >> > >> > >> > >> New York City (March 30, 2009): The Reading Rights Coalition, which > >> represents people who cannot read print, will protest the threatened > >> removal > >> of the text-to-speech function from e-books for the Amazon Kindle 2 > >> outside > >> the Authors Guild headquarters in New York City at 31 East 32nd Street on > >> April 7, 2009, from noon to 2:00 p.m. The coalition includes the blind, > >> people with dyslexia, people with learning or processing issues, seniors > >> losing vision, people with spinal cord injuries, people recovering from > >> strokes, and many others for whom the addition of text-to-speech on the > >> Kindle 2 promised for the first time easy, mainstream access to over > >> 245,000 > >> books. > >> > >> > >> > >> When Amazon released the Kindle 2 electronic book reader on February 9, > >> 2009, the company announced that the device would be able to read e-books > >> aloud using text-to-speech technology. Under pressure from the Authors > >> Guild, Amazon has announced that it will give authors and publishers the > >> ability to disable the text-to-speech function on any or all of their > >> e-books available for the Kindle 2. > >> > >> > >> > >> Dr. Marc Maurer, President of the National Federation of the Blind, said: > >> "The blind and print-disabled have for years utilized text-to-speech > >> technology to read and access information. As technology advances and > >> more > >> books move from hard-copy print to electronic formats, people with print > >> disabilities have for the first time in history the opportunity to enjoy > >> access to books on an equal basis with those who can read print. Authors > >> and publishers who elect to disable text-to-speech for their e-books on > >> the > >> Kindle 2 prevent people who are blind or have > >> > >> other print disabilities from reading these e-books. This is blatant > >> discrimination and we will not tolerate it." > >> > >> > >> > >> Mike Shuttic, president of the Association on Higher Education and > >> Disability (AHEAD), said: "AHEAD envisions educational and societal > >> environments that value disability and embody equality of opportunity. > >> This > >> vision of AHEAD is directly aligned with the efforts of this coalition. > >> Although much rhetoric is made about potential obstacles and problems > >> that > >> exist, the basic goal is clear and simple--access for everyone. And why > >> create something that prevents it?" > >> > >> > >> > >> Mitch Pomerantz, president of the American Council of the Blind, said: > >> "Removing the text-to-speech features closes the door on an innovative > >> technological solution that would make regular print books available to > >> tens > >> of thousands of individuals who are blind or visually impaired." > >> > >> > >> > >> Andrew Imparato, President and Chief Executive Officer for the American > >> Association of People with Disabilities (AAPD), said: "It is outrageous > >> when > >> a technology device shuts out people with all kinds of disabilities. > AAPD > >> works to remove barriers to accessibility and usability in technology, > and > >> we don't expect to see people with disabilities singled out by having to > >> pay > >> more for access. New technologies, such as electronic books, should be > >> available to everyone regardless of disability." > >> > >> Paul Schroeder, vice president of programs and policy for the American > >> Foundation for the Blind, said: "Those of us with print disabilities have > >> long dreamed of a world in which books and media are available to us at > >> the > >> same time as everyone else. The Kindle 2 offers that possibility for the > >> first time. We hope publishers and authors come to see that > >> text-to-speech > >> is simply an alternative means of access to print." > >> > >> Dr. Peter Blanck, chairman and university professor at Burton Blatt > >> Institute at Syracuse University, said: "As electronic books become the > >> norm, denying universal access will result in more and more people with > >> disabilities being left out of education, employment, and the societal > >> conversation. We will all suffer from the absence of their participation > >> and contribution to the debates that occupy us as a society." > >> > >> > >> > >> George Kerscher of the Digital Accessible Information System (DAISY) > >> Consortium, said: "The DAISY Consortium envisions a world where people > >> with > >> print disabilities have equal access to information and knowledge, > without > >> delay or additional expense. Authors and publishers surely must share > >> this > >> vision. Now that the issue of human rights has been explained, and the > >> opportunity for larger sales are known, I urge the Authors Guild to > >> reverse > >> their position on text-to-speech and join us in actively encouraging all > >> publishers and reading technology developers to open the world of reading > >> to > >> everybody. Authors, join us on the picket line." > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> Steve Jacobs, president of IDEAL Group Inc., said, "Not only is > >> text-to-speech important to people who are blind, it is critical in > >> providing quality educations to millions of young people who rely on > >> text-to-speech to learn effectively. This includes students with autism, > >> learning disabilities, mobility disabilities, and cognitive disabilities > >> that impact their ability to acquire information with their eyes only. I > >> remain hopeful that the talented members of the Authors Guild come to > >> understand the potential negative impact of disabling the text-to-speech > >> function on their e-books and reconsider their position." > >> > >> > >> > >> Cynthia D. Waddell, executive director of the International Center for > >> Disability Resources on the Internet (ICDRI), said: "The mission of > ICDRI > >> supports the removal of barriers in electronic and information technology > >> and the promotion of equal access. ICDRI welcomes the text-to-speech > >> functionality being offered by the Kindle 2 since it increases mainstream > >> access to books for the first time in history. We question why the > >> Authors > >> Guild demands that it be turned it off since many more books would be > sold > >> if text-to-speech was turned back on. Not only > >> > >> does this feature benefit persons with disabilities, but it also helps > >> persons for whom English is not their native language. In an > increasingly > >> mobile society, flexibility in access to content improves the quality of > >> life for everyone." > >> > >> > >> > >> James Love, director of Knowledge Ecology International, said: "Knowing > >> full well that not everyone can see, the Authors Guild wants the right to > >> be > >> seen, but not heard. By bullying Amazon to change the technology of > >> Kindle > >> 2, the Authors Guild will either deny access to people who are disabled, > >> or > >> make them pay more. By attacking disabled persons in this way, the > >> Authors > >> Guild is attacking everyone who would otherwise benefit from the > >> contributions this community has the potential to offer." > >> > >> > >> > >> James H. Wendorf, executive director for the National Center for Learning > >> Disabilities, said: "Access to the written word is the cornerstone of > >> education and democracy. New technologies must serve individuals with > >> disabilities, not impede them. Our homes, schools and ultimately our > >> economy rely on support for the future, not discriminating practices and > >> beliefs from the past." > >> > >> While the Kindle 2 is not currently accessible to blind users, Amazon > >> recently announced on its Kindle 2 blog that it is currently at work on > >> making the device's navigational features accessible to the blind. > >> > >> > >> > >> The coalition includes: American Association of People with Disabilities, > >> American Council of the Blind, American Foundation for the Blind, > >> Association on Higher Education and Disability, Bazelon Center for Mental > >> Health Law, Burton Blatt Institute, Digital Accessible Information System > >> (DAISY) Consortium, Disability Rights Education and Defense Fund (DREDF), > >> IDEAL Group, Inc., International Center for Disability Resources on the > >> Internet, International Dyslexia Association, International Dyslexia > >> Association--New York Branch, Knowledge Ecology International, Learning > >> Disabilities Association of America, National Center for Learning > >> Disabilities, National Disability Rights Network, National Federation of > >> the > >> Blind, NISH, and the National Spinal Cord Injury Association. In > addition > >> to the April 7 New York City protest, the coalition will participate in > >> the > >> Los Angeles Times Festival of Books on April 25-26. > >> > >> > >> > >> ### > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> blindlaw mailing list > >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> blindlaw: > >> > >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mikefry79%40gmail. > com > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > blindlaw mailing list > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > blindlaw: > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/chatter8712%40gmai > l.com > > > > > -- > -Shane > Website: http://www.blind-geek.com > AIM: inhaddict > MSN: shane at blind-geek.com > Skype: chatter8712 > Twitter: blind_geek > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. > com > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature > database 3976 (20090330) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature > database 3976 (20090330) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/timandvickie%40hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ Quick access to Windows Live and your favorite MSN content with Internet Explorer 8. http://ie8.msn.com/microsoft/internet-explorer-8/en-us/ie8.aspx?ocid=B037MSN55C0701A From JFreeh at nfb.org Tue Mar 31 02:03:59 2009 From: JFreeh at nfb.org (Freeh, Jessica) Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2009 21:03:59 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Reading Rights Coalition Urges Authors to Allow Everyone Access to E-books Message-ID: FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE CONTACT: Chris Danielsen Director of Public Relations National Federation of the Blind (410) 659-9314, ext. 2330 (410) 262-1281 (Cell) cdanielsen at nfb.org Reading Rights Coalition Urges Authors to Allow Everyone Access to E-books Informational Protest to be Held at Authors Guild Headquarters New York City (March 30, 2009): The Reading Rights Coalition, which represents people who cannot read print, will protest the threatened removal of the text-to-speech function from e-books for the Amazon Kindle 2 outside the Authors Guild headquarters in New York City at 31 East 32nd Street on April 7, 2009, from noon to 2:00 p.m. The coalition includes the blind, people with dyslexia, people with learning or processing issues, seniors losing vision, people with spinal cord injuries, people recovering from strokes, and many others for whom the addition of text-to-speech on the Kindle 2 promised for the first time easy, mainstream access to over 255,000 books. When Amazon released the Kindle 2 electronic book reader on February 9, 2009, the company announced that the device would be able to read e-books aloud using text-to-speech technology. Under pressure from the Authors Guild, Amazon has announced that it will give authors and publishers the ability to disable the text-to-speech function on any or all of their e-books available for the Kindle 2. Dr. Marc Maurer, President of the National Federation of the Blind, said: “The blind and print-disabled have for years utilized text-to-speech technology to read and access information. As technology advances and more books move from hard-copy print to electronic formats, people with print disabilities have for the first time in history the opportunity to enjoy access to books on an equal basis with those who can read print. Authors and publishers who elect to disable text-to-speech for their e-books on the Kindle 2 prevent people who are blind or have other print disabilities from reading these e-books. This is blatant discrimination and we will not tolerate it.” Mike Shuttic, president of the Association on Higher Education and Disability (AHEAD), said: “AHEAD envisions educational and societal environments that value disability and embody equality of opportunity. This vision of AHEAD is directly aligned with the efforts of this coalition. Although much rhetoric is made about potential obstacles and problems that exist, the basic goal is clear and simple––access for everyone. And why create something that prevents it?” Mitch Pomerantz, president of the American Council of the Blind, said: “Removing the text-to-speech features closes the door on an innovative technological solution that would make regular print books available to tens of thousands of individuals who are blind or visually impaired.” Andrew Imparato, President and Chief Executive Officer for the American Association of People with Disabilities (AAPD), said: “It is outrageous when a technology device shuts out people with all kinds of disabilities. AAPD works to remove barriers to accessibility and usability in technology, and we don't expect to see people with disabilities singled out by having to pay more for access. New technologies, such as electronic books, should be available to everyone regardless of disability.” Paul Schroeder, vice president of programs and policy for the American Foundation for the Blind, said: "Those of us with print disabilities have long dreamed of a world in which books and media are available to us at the same time as everyone else. The Kindle 2 offers that possibility for the first time. We hope publishers and authors come to see that text-to-speech is simply an alternative means of access to print." Dr. Peter Blanck, chairman and university professor at Burton Blatt Institute at Syracuse University, said: “As electronic books become the norm, denying universal access will result in more and more people with disabilities being left out of education, employment, and the societal conversation. We will all suffer from the absence of their participation and contribution to the debates that occupy us as a society.” George Kerscher of the Digital Accessible Information System (DAISY) Consortium, said: "The DAISY Consortium envisions a world where people with print disabilities have equal access to information and knowledge, without delay or additional expense. Authors and publishers surely must share this vision. Now that the issue of human rights has been explained, and the opportunity for larger sales are known, I urge the Authors Guild to reverse their position on text-to-speech and join us in actively encouraging all publishers and reading technology developers to open the world of reading to everybody. Authors, join us on the picket line." Steve Jacobs, president of IDEAL Group Inc., said, “Not only is text-to-speech important to people who are blind, it is critical in providing quality educations to millions of young people who rely on text-to-speech to learn effectively. This includes students with autism, learning disabilities, mobility disabilities, and cognitive disabilities that impact their ability to acquire information with their eyes only. I remain hopeful that the talented members of the Authors Guild come to understand the potential negative impact of disabling the text-to-speech function on their e-books and reconsider their position.” Cynthia D. Waddell, executive director of the International Center for Disability Resources on the Internet (ICDRI), said: “The mission of ICDRI supports the removal of barriers in electronic and information technology and the promotion of equal access. ICDRI welcomes the text-to-speech functionality being offered by the Kindle 2 since it increases mainstream access to books for the first time in history. We question why the Authors Guild demands that it be turned it off since many more books would be sold if text-to-speech was turned back on. Not only does this feature benefit persons with disabilities, but it also helps persons for whom English is not their native language. In an increasingly mobile society, flexibility in access to content improves the quality of life for everyone.” James Love, director of Knowledge Ecology International, said: “Knowing full well that not everyone can see, the Authors Guild wants the right to be seen, but not heard. By bullying Amazon to change the technology of Kindle 2, the Authors Guild will either deny access to people who are disabled, or make them pay more. By attacking disabled persons in this way, the Authors Guild is attacking everyone who would otherwise benefit from the contributions this community has the potential to offer.” James H. Wendorf, executive director for the National Center for Learning Disabilities, said: "Access to the written word is the cornerstone of education and democracy. New technologies must serve individuals with disabilities, not impede them. Our homes, schools and ultimately our economy rely on support for the future, not discriminating practices and beliefs from the past.” While the Kindle 2 is not currently accessible to blind users, Amazon recently announced on its Kindle 2 blog that it is currently at work on making the device’s navigational features accessible to the blind. The coalition includes: American Association of People with Disabilities, American Council of the Blind, American Foundation for the Blind, Association on Higher Education and Disability, Bazelon Center for Mental Health Law, Burton Blatt Institute, Digital Accessible Information System (DAISY) Consortium, Disability Rights Education and Defense Fund (DREDF), IDEAL Group, Inc., International Center for Disability Resources on the Internet, International Dyslexia Association, International Dyslexia Association––New York Branch, Knowledge Ecology International, Learning Disabilities Association of America, National Center for Learning Disabilities, National Disability Rights Network, National Federation of the Blind, NISH, and the National Spinal Cord Injury Association. In addition to the April 7 New York City protest, the coalition will participate in the Los Angeles Times Festival of Books on April 25-26. ### __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 3832 (20090206) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com From David.B.Andrews at state.mn.us Tue Mar 31 02:17:05 2009 From: David.B.Andrews at state.mn.us (David B Andrews) Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2009 21:17:05 -0500 Subject: [blindlaw] Kindle E-Reader: A Trojan Horse for Free Thought Message-ID: With all the discussion about the Kindle, and what it permits, and doesn't permit, I thought this might be of interest to some. David Andrews Kindle E-Reader: A Trojan Horse for Free Thought By Emily Walshe The Christian Science Monitor from the March 18, 2009 edition <http://www.csmonitor.com/2009/0318/p09s01-coop.html> Brookville, N.Y. - All you really need to know about the dangers of digital commodification you learned in kindergarten. Think back. Remember swapping your baloney sandwich for Jell-o pudding? Now, imagine handing over your sandwich and getting just a spoon. That's one trade you'd never make again. Yet that's just what millions of Americans are doing every day when they read "books" on Kindle, Amazon's e- reading device. In our rush to adopt new technologies, we have too readily surrendered ownership in favor of its twisted sister, access. Web 2.0 and its culture of collaboration supposedly unleashed a sharing society. But we can share only what we own. And as more and more content gets digitized, commercialized, and monopolized, our cultural integrity is threatened. The free and balanced flow of information that gives shape to democratic society is jeopardized. For now, though, Kindle is on fire in the marketplace. Who could resist reading "what you want, when you want it?" Access to more than 240,000 books is just seconds away. And its "revolutionary electronic-paper display ... looks and reads like real paper." But it comes with restrictions: You can't resell or share your books - because you don't own them. You can download only from Amazon's store, making it difficult to read anything that is not routed through Amazon first. You're not buying a book; you're buying access to a book. No, it's not like borrowing a book from a library, because there is no public investment. It's like taking an interest-only mortgage out on intellectual property. If our flailing economy is to teach us anything, it might be that an on-demand world of universal access (with words like lease, licensure, and liquidity) gets us into trouble. Amazon and other e-media aggregators know that digital text is the irrational exuberance of the day, and so are seizing the opportunity to codify, commodify, and control access for tomorrow. But access doesn't "look and read" like printed paper at all - just ask any forlorn investor. Access is useless currency. Why is this important? Because Kindle is the kind of technology that challenges media freedom and restricts media pluralism. It exacerbates what historian William Leach calls "the landscape of the temporary": a hyper mobile and rootless society that prefers access to ownership. Such a society is vulnerable to the dangers of selective censorship and control. Digital rights management (DRM), which Kindle uses to lock in its library, raises critical questions about the nature of property and identity in digital culture. Culture plays a large role - in some ways, larger than government - in shaping who we are as individuals in a society. The First Amendment protects our right to participate in the production of that culture. The widespread commodification of access is shaping nearly every aspect of modern citizenship. There are benefits, to be sure, but this transformation also poses a big- time threat to free expression and assembly. When Facebook, for example, proposed revisions to its terms of service last month - claiming ownership of user profiles and personal data - the successful backlash it spawned caused complex (even existential) ideas about property, identity, and capitulation to bubble up: Is my Facebook profile the essence of who I am? If so, who owns me? The hallmark of a constitutionally governed society, after all, is the acknowledgment that we are the authors of our own experience. In an Internet age, this is manifest not only in published works, but also an ever-evolving host of user-generated content (Twitter, Blogger, Facebook, YouTube, etc.). If service providers lay claim to digital content now, how will it all end? Print may be dying, but the idea of print would be the more critical demise: the idea that there needs to be a record - an artifact of permanence, residence, and posterity - that is independent of some well-appointed thingamajig in order to be seen, touched, understood, or wholly possessed. "You don't have to burn books to destroy a culture," Ray Bradbury once said. "Just get people to stop reading them." Access equals control. In this case, it is control over what is read and what is not; what is referenced and what is overlooked; what is retained and what is deleted; what is and what seems to be. To kindle, we must remember, is to set fire to. The combustible power of this device (and others like it) lies in their quiet but constant claim to intangible, algorithmic capital. What the Kindle should be igniting is serious debate on the fundamental, inalienable right to property in a digital age - and clarifying what's yours, mine, and ours. It should strike a match against the winner-take-all casino economies that this kind of technology engenders; revitalize American libraries and other social institutions in their quest to preserve the doctrines of fair use and first sale (which allow for free and lawful sharing); and finally, spark Americans to consider the extent to which they are handing over their baloney sandwich for a plastic spoon. Like a lot of people, I'm a sucker for a good book. But not at the expense of freedom, or foreclosure of thought. Emily Walshe is a librarian and professor at Long Island University in New York. From jsorozco at gmail.com Tue Mar 31 02:27:05 2009 From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco) Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2009 22:27:05 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Fw: Reading Rights Coalition Urges Authors toAllowEveryone Access to E-books In-Reply-To: <3632128BE00345E7A3A982C3407FA5DC@Scorpio13> Message-ID: Is there something those of us who cannot go to New York do to show support? Joe Orozco "A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the crowd."--Max Lucado -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Chris Danielsen Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 9:17 PM To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Fw: Reading Rights Coalition Urges Authors toAllowEveryone Access to E-books With Bookshare, you're not paying for the books you download. By contrast, if I buy a book like everyone else, it's nobody's business how I read it or why I'm reading it that way. Chris -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of E.J. Zufelt Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 6:15 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Fw: Reading Rights Coalition Urges Authors to AllowEveryone Access to E-books Is it immoral for Bookshare to require registration aswell? Everett On 30-Mar-09, at 2:21 PM, Michael Fry wrote: > It is awesome that so many organizations are coalescing around such a > noble and worthy cause. > > The Guilds position is immoral since it is infringes on human rights > and dignity because it exploits, for profit, a vulnerable minority of > the population. Requiring the disabled to 'register' - like some kind > of inferior animal - in order to use new, free, and innovative > text-to-speech technology places an unnecessary obstacle in path of > people with disablities. This obstacle is desgined solely to exploit > money from people without the time or inclination or, who are too > embarrassed to register, as a text disabled individuals. They are > attempting to bully extra profits out of people with disabilities. > The > Guild, comprised of enlightened and educated individuals, should be > ashamed since there is no explanation other than immoral greed for > their position. > > > On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 9:16 AM, Scott C. LaBarre > wrote: > >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Freeh, Jessica >> To: Alpidio Rolon ; Amy Buresh ; Anil Lewis ; Art Schreiber ; Beth >> Rival ; Bob Kresmer ; Carl Jacobsen ; Cathy Jackson ; Charlene Smyth >> ; Christine G. >> Hall ; Daniel Burke ; David Ticchi ; Don Galloway ; Donna Wood ; >> Elsie Lamp ; Frank Lee ; Franklin Shiner ; Fred Schroeder ; Fred >> Wurtzel ; Gary Ray ; Gary Wunder ; J.W. Smith ; James Antonacci ; >> James Broadnax ; Jennelle Bichler ; Jennifer Dunnam ; Jerree Harris ; >> Joe Ruffalo ; John Batron ; John Fritz ; Joyce Scanlan ; Kathy Davis >> ; Ken Rollman ; Kevan Worley ; Marie Johnson ; Mary Willows ; Melissa >> Riccobono ; Michael Barber ; Michael Freeman ; Nani Fife ; Pam Allen >> ; Parnell Diggs ; Patti Chang ; Richard Bennett ; Richard Gaffney ; >> Ron Brown ; Ron Gardner ; Sam Gleese ; Scott LaBarre ; Selena >> Sundling-Crawford ; Steven Priddle ; Terri Rupp ; Tommy Craig >> Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 7:09 AM >> Subject: Reading Rights Coalition Urges Authors to Allow Everyone >> Access to E-books >> >> >> FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE >> >> >> CONTACT: >> >> Chris Danielsen >> >> Director of Public Relations >> >> National Federation of the Blind >> >> (410) 659-9314, ext. 2330 >> >> (410) 262-1281 (Cell) >> cdanielsen at nfb.org >> >> >> >> Reading Rights Coalition Urges Authors to Allow Everyone Access to >> E-books >> >> >> >> Informational Protest to be Held at Authors Guild Headquarters >> >> >> >> New York City (March 30, 2009): The Reading Rights Coalition, which >> represents people who cannot read print, will protest the threatened >> removal of the text-to-speech function from e-books for the Amazon >> Kindle 2 outside the Authors Guild headquarters in New York City at >> 31 East 32nd Street on April 7, 2009, from noon to 2:00 p.m. The >> coalition includes the blind, people with dyslexia, people with >> learning or processing issues, seniors losing vision, people with >> spinal cord injuries, people recovering from strokes, and many others >> for whom the addition of text-to-speech on the Kindle 2 promised for >> the first time easy, mainstream access to over 245,000 books. >> >> >> >> When Amazon released the Kindle 2 electronic book reader on February >> 9, 2009, the company announced that the device would be able to read >> e- books aloud using text-to-speech technology. Under pressure from >> the Authors Guild, Amazon has announced that it will give authors and >> publishers the ability to disable the text-to-speech function on any >> or all of their e-books available for the Kindle 2. >> >> >> >> Dr. Marc Maurer, President of the National Federation of the Blind, >> said: >> "The blind and print-disabled have for years utilized text-to-speech >> technology to read and access information. As technology advances >> and more books move from hard-copy print to electronic formats, >> people with print disabilities have for the first time in history the >> opportunity to enjoy >> access to books on an equal basis with those who can read print. >> Authors >> and publishers who elect to disable text-to-speech for their e- books >> on the Kindle 2 prevent people who are blind or have >> >> other print disabilities from reading these e-books. This is blatant >> discrimination and we will not tolerate it." >> >> >> >> Mike Shuttic, president of the Association on Higher Education and >> Disability (AHEAD), said: "AHEAD envisions educational and societal >> environments that value disability and embody equality of >> opportunity. This vision of AHEAD is directly aligned with the >> efforts of this coalition. >> Although much rhetoric is made about potential obstacles and problems >> that >> exist, the basic goal is clear and simple--access for everyone. >> And why >> create something that prevents it?" >> >> >> >> Mitch Pomerantz, president of the American Council of the Blind, >> said: >> "Removing the text-to-speech features closes the door on an >> innovative technological solution that would make regular print books >> available to tens of thousands of individuals who are blind or >> visually impaired." >> >> >> >> Andrew Imparato, President and Chief Executive Officer for the >> American Association of People with Disabilities (AAPD), said: "It is >> outrageous when a technology device shuts out people with all kinds >> of disabilities. AAPD works to remove barriers to accessibility and >> usability in technology, and we don't expect to see people with >> disabilities singled out by having to pay more for access. New >> technologies, such as electronic books, should be available to >> everyone regardless of disability." >> >> Paul Schroeder, vice president of programs and policy for the >> American Foundation for the Blind, said: "Those of us with print >> disabilities have long dreamed of a world in which books and media >> are available to us at the same time as everyone else. The Kindle 2 >> offers that possibility for the first time. We hope publishers and >> authors come to see that text- to-speech is simply an alternative >> means of access to print." >> >> Dr. Peter Blanck, chairman and university professor at Burton Blatt >> Institute at Syracuse University, said: "As electronic books become >> the norm, denying universal access will result in more and more >> people with disabilities being left out of education, employment, and >> the societal conversation. We will all suffer from the absence of >> their participation and contribution to the debates that occupy us as >> a society." >> >> >> >> George Kerscher of the Digital Accessible Information System (DAISY) >> Consortium, said: "The DAISY Consortium envisions a world where >> people with print disabilities have equal access to information and >> knowledge, without delay or additional expense. Authors and >> publishers surely must share this vision. Now that the issue of >> human rights has been explained, and the opportunity for larger sales >> are known, I urge the Authors Guild to reverse their position on >> text-to-speech and join us in actively encouraging all publishers and >> reading technology developers to open the world of reading to >> everybody. Authors, join us on the picket line." >> >> >> >> >> >> Steve Jacobs, president of IDEAL Group Inc., said, "Not only is >> text-to-speech important to people who are blind, it is critical in >> providing quality educations to millions of young people who rely on >> text-to-speech to learn effectively. This includes students with >> autism, learning disabilities, mobility disabilities, and cognitive >> disabilities that impact their ability to acquire information with >> their eyes only. I remain hopeful that the talented members of the >> Authors Guild come to understand the potential negative impact of >> disabling the text-to- speech function on their e-books and >> reconsider their position." >> >> >> >> Cynthia D. Waddell, executive director of the International Center >> for Disability Resources on the Internet (ICDRI), said: "The mission >> of ICDRI supports the removal of barriers in electronic and >> information technology and the promotion of equal access. ICDRI >> welcomes the text-to-speech functionality being offered by the Kindle >> 2 since it increases mainstream access to books for the first time in >> history. We question why the Authors Guild demands that it be turned >> it off since many more books would be sold if text-to-speech was >> turned back on. Not only >> >> does this feature benefit persons with disabilities, but it also >> helps persons for whom English is not their native language. In an >> increasingly mobile society, flexibility in access to content >> improves the quality of life for everyone." >> >> >> >> James Love, director of Knowledge Ecology International, said: >> "Knowing >> full well that not everyone can see, the Authors Guild wants the >> right to be seen, but not heard. By bullying Amazon to change the >> technology of Kindle 2, the Authors Guild will either deny access to >> people who are disabled, or make them pay more. By attacking >> disabled persons in this way, the Authors Guild is attacking everyone >> who would otherwise benefit from the contributions this community has >> the potential to offer." >> >> >> >> James H. Wendorf, executive director for the National Center for >> Learning Disabilities, said: "Access to the written word is the >> cornerstone of education and democracy. New technologies must serve >> individuals with disabilities, not impede them. Our homes, schools >> and ultimately our economy rely on support for the future, not >> discriminating practices and beliefs from the past." >> >> While the Kindle 2 is not currently accessible to blind users, Amazon >> recently announced on its Kindle 2 blog that it is currently at work >> on making the device's navigational features accessible to the blind. >> >> >> >> The coalition includes: American Association of People with >> Disabilities, >> American Council of the Blind, American Foundation for the Blind, >> Association on Higher Education and Disability, Bazelon Center for >> Mental >> Health Law, Burton Blatt Institute, Digital Accessible Information >> System >> (DAISY) Consortium, Disability Rights Education and Defense Fund >> (DREDF), >> IDEAL Group, Inc., International Center for Disability Resources on >> the >> Internet, International Dyslexia Association, International Dyslexia >> Association--New York Branch, Knowledge Ecology International, >> Learning >> Disabilities Association of America, National Center for Learning >> Disabilities, National Disability Rights Network, National >> Federation of the >> Blind, NISH, and the National Spinal Cord Injury Association. In >> addition >> to the April 7 New York City protest, the coalition will >> participate in the >> Los Angeles Times Festival of Books on April 25-26. >> >> >> >> ### >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mikefr y79%40gmail. com >> > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/everet t%40zufelt.c a _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanie lsen8%40aol. com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3976 (20090330) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3976 (20090330) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jsoroz co%40gmail.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3973 (20090329) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3973 (20090329) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From ckrugman at sbcglobal.net Tue Mar 31 04:03:50 2009 From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net (ckrugman at sbcglobal.net) Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2009 21:03:50 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] tenBroek Law Symposium--Still Time to Register In-Reply-To: References: <7638A85981599142811F69FBB9508B6B953E11@FPNTEXCBE01.services.local> Message-ID: <5968BC8D069D44CBAD43F9911C0650BC@spike> I too am in California and have raised the same issues. As a chapter president of a NFB chapter It is surprising that NFB has brought itself more in to the current age of the internet with webcasts and legislative alert systems. Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal PresidentNFBC central Valley Chapter 1237 P Street Fresno ca 93721 559-266-9237 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred Wright Lopez" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 10:36 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] tenBroek Law Symposium--Still Time to Register >I am an attorney member of the Blind Lawyers Association, although not an >NFB member I first would like to thank you for the genrerous offer you >have extended with regard to loggingassistance for the tenBroek Law >Sympsium. Transportation costs are certaintly a disincentive to >participation in this education conference. However, I am at a lost to >understand why there was no effort to provide "Web Casting" of this very >important legal training session. I reside in California and accordingly >the length of time taken to travel to and from the conference site is also >a consideration. I for one would very like to benefit from the tenbroek >seminar but can not afford the time away from other pressing legal >obligations. Web casting of the event would provide the opportunity for >many of us to participate. Is there any possibility that the symposium >can be web cast? > > Sincerely, Fred W. Lopez > > > On Mar 30, 2009, at 9:19 AM, Frye, Dan wrote: > >> List Colleagues: >> >> Lou Ann Blake, the tenBroek Law Symposium coordinator on the NFB >> national staff, has asked that I post this reminder flyer once again to >> members of the blind and visually impaired legal community subscribed to >> this list. In addition to everything Lou Ann says in the following >> announcement (which is also attached as a Word Document for your >> convenience), I am reasonably confident that some accommodations here at >> the National Center for the Blind can be made available for our members >> and friends who would come except for the additional expense associated >> with lodging. If free sleeping accommodations here at the National >> Center for the Blind would make your participation more likely, please >> contact Lou Ann Blake to discuss arrangements. As stated in the >> announcement, other financial concessions associated with the tenBroek >> Law Symposium can also be made in certain circumstances. Lou Ann has >> assembled a high-caliber array of program presenters, and we want to >> make certain that people can benefit from this important symposium. See >> the announcement pasted below and attached to this message for further >> information: >> >> There's Still Time to Register and Reserve Your Room at the Holiday Inn >> Inner Harbor >> >> >> >> For the >> >> >> >> 2009 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium >> >> New Perspectives on Disability Law: Advancing the Right to Live in the >> World >> >> >> >> >> >> Be sure to let your colleagues and friends know that the deadline to >> register for this exciting and powerful symposium is April 10, 2009, and >> that the cut-off date for reserving rooms at the Holiday Inn Inner >> Harbor has been extended to April 3, 2009. Don't miss this opportunity >> to voice your concerns to Kareem Dale, Special Assistant to President >> Obama for Disability Policy, at the 2009 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law >> Symposium on April 17th at the National Federation of the Blind Jernigan >> Institute in Baltimore, Maryland. Mr. Dale will speak on the Obama >> administration's policies on disability issues for approximately thirty >> minutes followed by a forty-five minute question and answer session. In >> addition to Mr. Dale, the presenters for the 2009 symposium are: >> >> >> >> * Maura Healey, Assistant Attorney General and Chief, Office of >> Civil Rights, Commonwealth of Massachusetts; >> * Amy Robertson and Timothy Fox, Principals, Fox & Robertson, >> P.C.; >> * Gerard Quinn, Professor of Law, National University of Ireland, >> Galway; >> * Katherine Guernsey, International Lawyer and Adjunct Professor, >> American University School of International Service; >> * Samuel Bagenstos, Visiting Professor of Law, UCLA Law School; >> * Christine Griffin, Commissioner, United States Equal Employment >> Opportunity Commission; and >> * Peter Blanck, University Professor and Chairman, Burton Blatt >> Institute at Syracuse University. >> >> >> >> Ari Ne'eman, founding president of the Autistic Self-Advocacy Network, >> will give the luncheon keynote address. >> >> >> >> To view the full agenda, register online, or download the registration >> form to register by mail or fax, visit the symposium Web page at >> http://www.nfb.org/nfb/Law_Symposium.asp. Hotel information may also be >> found on the symposium Web page. The deadline to make room reservations >> at the Holiday Inn Inner Harbor has been extended to 3:00 pm, April 3, >> 2009. >> >> >> >> The registration fee is $150; students may register for $20. A limited >> number of scholarships to cover the registration fee will be available >> to individuals with demonstrated financial need. Don't miss this >> exciting opportunity to interact with leading scholars, government >> officials, and advocates and to make your voice heard. The deadline to >> register is April 10, 2009. >> >> >> >> Symposium attendees will be provided documentation for CLE credit. >> Individuals will be responsible for filing the application for CLE >> credit with their state board. >> >> >> >> The 2009 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium is sponsored by the >> National Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute, the American Bar >> Association Commission on Mental and Physical Disability Law, the >> Maryland Department of Disability, the Texas Journal on Civil Liberties >> and Civil Rights, and the Legal Times. >> >> >> >> For additional information about the symposium, contact: >> >> >> >> Lou Ann Blake, Law Symposium Coordinator >> >> National Federation of the Blind >> >> Telephone: (410) 659-9314, ext. 2221 >> >> E-mail: lblake at nfb.org >> >> >> >> I look forward to seeing many of you on April 17, 2009, for the second >> annual tenBroek Law Symposium. >> >> >> >> With Kind Regards, >> >> >> >> >> *********************** >> Daniel B. Frye, J.D. >> Associate Editor >> The Braille Monitor >> National Federation of the Blind >> Office of the President >> 1800 Johnson Street >> Baltimore, Maryland 21230 >> Telephone: (410) 659-9314 Ext. 2208 >> Mobile: (410) 241-7006 >> Fax: (410) 685-5653 >> Email: DFrye at nfb.org >> Web Address: www.nfb.org >> "Voice of the Nation's Blind" >> >> <3-30 2009 law sym promo e- >> mail.doc>_______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/fwlopez%40comcast.net > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net From carter.tjoseph at gmail.com Tue Mar 31 11:56:45 2009 From: carter.tjoseph at gmail.com (T. Joseph Carter) Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2009 04:56:45 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Fw: Reading Rights Coalition Urges Authors to AllowEveryone Access to E-books In-Reply-To: <682E6BAAC17F4FE29F65138991E41E72@Scorpio13> References: <7556b95a0903301147s5ef9d3b9ubf43957bd3e1787d@mail.gmail.com> <682E6BAAC17F4FE29F65138991E41E72@Scorpio13> Message-ID: <20090331115645.GH30293@yumi.bluecherry.net> I think it's time we educate them. How do I wish I were in the area--I'd LOVE to be there. Joseph On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 09:12:57PM -0400, Chris Danielsen wrote: >The NFB has communicated directly with the Authors Guild. They have told us >that they are willing for the TTS to be turned on for the disabled and no >one else if there is a national registry of those with print disabilities. >When we told them that this is unacceptable, they suggested that those who >want to have books read aloud should pay a surcharge. > >Chris From jackchenonline at hotmail.com Tue Mar 31 12:34:47 2009 From: jackchenonline at hotmail.com (Jack Chen) Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2009 08:34:47 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Fw: Reading Rights Coalition Urges Authorsto AllowEveryone Access to E-books References: <7556b95a0903301147s5ef9d3b9ubf43957bd3e1787d@mail.gmail.com><682E6BAAC17F4FE29F65138991E41E72@Scorpio13> <20090331115645.GH30293@yumi.bluecherry.net> Message-ID: How would the problem be stated best? Is it an issue with having to register at all or is it a problem with the perception that such a registration list would label individuals as disabled? My apologies if my basic question offends anyone -- I'm just trying to understand the problem better. jack ----- Original Message ----- From: "T. Joseph Carter" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2009 7:56 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Fw: Reading Rights Coalition Urges Authorsto AllowEveryone Access to E-books >I think it's time we educate them. How do I wish I were in the area--I'd >LOVE to be there. > > Joseph > > On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 09:12:57PM -0400, Chris Danielsen wrote: >>The NFB has communicated directly with the Authors Guild. They have told >>us >>that they are willing for the TTS to be turned on for the disabled and no >>one else if there is a national registry of those with print disabilities. >>When we told them that this is unacceptable, they suggested that those who >>want to have books read aloud should pay a surcharge. >> >>Chris > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jackchenonline%40hotmail.com > From chatter8712 at gmail.com Tue Mar 31 12:35:19 2009 From: chatter8712 at gmail.com (Shane D) Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2009 08:35:19 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Fw: Reading Rights Coalition Urges Authors to Allow Everyone Access to E-books In-Reply-To: <350259D0-F452-4768-AB76-04A29D84F0C3@zufelt.ca> References: <40DB1C3BA7A1407E83E3E7A85D0E24FE@labarre> <8c58e54a0903301021m44094b44q5bcb7e72ab209a59@mail.gmail.com> <02D7D05D-7EE8-4D75-A7F1-05A1096E94B4@zufelt.ca> <350259D0-F452-4768-AB76-04A29D84F0C3@zufelt.ca> Message-ID: <7556b95a0903310535v3cdfb93lcbbf27cf04bdb5e7@mail.gmail.com> Re: Bookshare, we are being given nearly free access to copyrighted books. The $50/year goes to paying Bookshare's overhead. As such, Bookshare is required by law to varify our disabilities. However, Bookshare does not share with the publisher our disability information. I think the best analogy to this situation would be the Authors Guild taking a cut of Jaws proffit because it enables us to read books with audio. Bookshare is just a source for getting books. On 3/30/09, E.J. Zufelt wrote: > Good evening, > > One part of the argument was that: "The Guilds position is immoral > since it is infringes on human rights and dignity because it exploits, > for profit, a vulnerable minority >> >>> of the population. Requiring the disabled to 'register' - like >>> some kind >>> of inferior animal - in order to use new, free, and innovative text- >>> to-speech technology...". > > Understandably Bookshare.org is not for profit, however, the strongest > words in the above citation are related to having to "...register' - > like some kind of inferior animal...". If the registration > requirement for one service is acceptable how can the registration > requirement for a similar, but recognizably different, service been > seen as treating people like "inferior animals"? > > I agree that a method needs to be found to accommodate the needs of > all involved and to respect all current laws and the right of access > to information for the text-impaired population. However, the > "inferior animals" argument does not seem to have much foundation in > the facts. Perhaps the best solution is to require digital media > distributors to leave their publications unlocked for all readers, to > ensure the most open access to information for the text-impaired, > "inferior animals" does not seem to add any weight to the legal > argument on either side of this issue. > > Thanks, > Everett > > > On 30-Mar-09, at 9:11 PM, Rod Alcidonis wrote: > >> I can't tell you how much I hate it when a legal issue is seriously >> being >> debated on this list and someone comes along with a statement that >> is at >> best, uninformed. The current issue is not even close to a bookshare >> situation. I am afraid that this listserv might soon loses its >> character >> as a legal forum for blind legal professionals. Sad. >> >> Rod Alcidonis >> Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009. >> Roger Williams University School of Law >> 10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 >> Bristol, RI 02809 >> Home: (401) 824-8685 >> Cell: (718) 704-4651 >> E-mail: roddj12 at hotmail.com >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw- >> bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf Of E.J. Zufelt >> Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 6:15 PM >> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Fw: Reading Rights Coalition Urges Authors >> to Allow >> Everyone Access to E-books >> >> Is it immoral for Bookshare to require registration aswell? >> >> Everett >> >> >> On 30-Mar-09, at 2:21 PM, Michael Fry wrote: >> >>> It is awesome that so many organizations are coalescing around such >>> a noble >>> and worthy cause. >>> >>> The Guilds position is immoral since it is infringes on human rights >>> and dignity because it exploits, for profit, a vulnerable minority >>> of the >>> population. Requiring the disabled to 'register' - like some kind >>> of inferior animal - in order to use new, free, and >>> innovative text-to-speech technology places an unnecessary obstacle >>> in path >>> of people with disablities. This obstacle is desgined solely to >>> exploit >>> money from people without the time or inclination or, who are too >>> embarrassed to register, as a text disabled individuals. They are >>> attempting to bully extra profits out of people with disabilities. >>> The >>> Guild, comprised of enlightened and educated individuals, should be >>> ashamed >>> since there is no explanation other than immoral greed for their >>> position. >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 9:16 AM, Scott C. LaBarre >>> wrote: >>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: Freeh, Jessica >>>> To: Alpidio Rolon ; Amy Buresh ; Anil Lewis ; Art Schreiber ; Beth >>>> Rival ; >>>> Bob Kresmer ; Carl Jacobsen ; Cathy Jackson ; Charlene Smyth ; >>>> Christine G. >>>> Hall ; Daniel Burke ; David Ticchi ; Don Galloway ; Donna Wood ; >>>> Elsie Lamp >>>> ; Frank Lee ; Franklin Shiner ; Fred Schroeder ; Fred Wurtzel ; >>>> Gary Ray ; >>>> Gary Wunder ; J.W. Smith ; James Antonacci ; James Broadnax ; >>>> Jennelle >>>> Bichler ; Jennifer Dunnam ; Jerree Harris ; Joe Ruffalo ; John >>>> Batron ; John >>>> Fritz ; Joyce Scanlan ; Kathy Davis ; Ken Rollman ; Kevan Worley ; >>>> Marie >>>> Johnson ; Mary Willows ; Melissa Riccobono ; Michael Barber ; >>>> Michael >>>> Freeman ; Nani Fife ; Pam Allen ; Parnell Diggs ; Patti Chang ; >>>> Richard >>>> Bennett ; Richard Gaffney ; Ron Brown ; Ron Gardner ; Sam Gleese ; >>>> Scott >>>> LaBarre ; Selena Sundling-Crawford ; Steven Priddle ; Terri Rupp ; >>>> Tommy >>>> Craig >>>> Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 7:09 AM >>>> Subject: Reading Rights Coalition Urges Authors to Allow Everyone >>>> Access to >>>> E-books >>>> >>>> >>>> FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE >>>> >>>> >>>> CONTACT: >>>> >>>> Chris Danielsen >>>> >>>> Director of Public Relations >>>> >>>> National Federation of the Blind >>>> >>>> (410) 659-9314, ext. 2330 >>>> >>>> (410) 262-1281 (Cell) >>>> cdanielsen at nfb.org >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Reading Rights Coalition Urges Authors to Allow >>>> Everyone Access to E-books >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Informational Protest to be Held at Authors Guild Headquarters >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> New York City (March 30, 2009): The Reading Rights Coalition, which >>>> represents people who cannot read print, will protest the >>>> threatened removal >>>> of the text-to-speech function from e-books for the Amazon Kindle 2 >>>> outside >>>> the Authors Guild headquarters in New York City at 31 East 32nd >>>> Street on >>>> April 7, 2009, from noon to 2:00 p.m. The coalition includes the >>>> blind, >>>> people with dyslexia, people with learning or processing issues, >>>> seniors >>>> losing vision, people with spinal cord injuries, people recovering >>>> from >>>> strokes, and many others for whom the addition of text-to-speech on >>>> the >>>> Kindle 2 promised for the first time easy, mainstream access to >>>> over 245,000 >>>> books. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> When Amazon released the Kindle 2 electronic book reader on >>>> February 9, >>>> 2009, the company announced that the device would be able to read e- >>>> books >>>> aloud using text-to-speech technology. Under pressure from the >>>> Authors >>>> Guild, Amazon has announced that it will give authors and >>>> publishers the >>>> ability to disable the text-to-speech function on any or all of >>>> their >>>> e-books available for the Kindle 2. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Dr. Marc Maurer, President of the National Federation of the Blind, >>>> said: >>>> "The blind and print-disabled have for years utilized text-to-speech >>>> technology to read and access information. As technology advances >>>> and more >>>> books move from hard-copy print to electronic formats, people with >>>> print >>>> disabilities have for the first time in history the opportunity to >>>> enjoy >>>> access to books on an equal basis with those who can read print. >>>> Authors >>>> and publishers who elect to disable text-to-speech for their e- >>>> books on the >>>> Kindle 2 prevent people who are blind or have >>>> >>>> other print disabilities from reading these e-books. This is >>>> blatant >>>> discrimination and we will not tolerate it." >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Mike Shuttic, president of the Association on Higher Education and >>>> Disability (AHEAD), said: "AHEAD envisions educational and societal >>>> environments that value disability and embody equality of >>>> opportunity. This >>>> vision of AHEAD is directly aligned with the efforts of this >>>> coalition. >>>> Although much rhetoric is made about potential obstacles and >>>> problems that >>>> exist, the basic goal is clear and simple--access for everyone. >>>> And why >>>> create something that prevents it?" >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Mitch Pomerantz, president of the American Council of the Blind, >>>> said: >>>> "Removing the text-to-speech features closes the door on an >>>> innovative >>>> technological solution that would make regular print books >>>> available to tens >>>> of thousands of individuals who are blind or visually impaired." >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Andrew Imparato, President and Chief Executive Officer for the >>>> American >>>> Association of People with Disabilities (AAPD), said: "It is >>>> outrageous when >>>> a technology device shuts out people with all kinds of >>>> disabilities. AAPD >>>> works to remove barriers to accessibility and usability in >>>> technology, and >>>> we don't expect to see people with disabilities singled out by >>>> having to pay >>>> more for access. New technologies, such as electronic books, >>>> should be >>>> available to everyone regardless of disability." >>>> >>>> Paul Schroeder, vice president of programs and policy for the >>>> American >>>> Foundation for the Blind, said: "Those of us with print >>>> disabilities have >>>> long dreamed of a world in which books and media are available to >>>> us at the >>>> same time as everyone else. The Kindle 2 offers that possibility >>>> for the >>>> first time. We hope publishers and authors come to see that text- >>>> to-speech >>>> is simply an alternative means of access to print." >>>> >>>> Dr. Peter Blanck, chairman and university professor at Burton Blatt >>>> Institute at Syracuse University, said: "As electronic books become >>>> the >>>> norm, denying universal access will result in more and more people >>>> with >>>> disabilities being left out of education, employment, and the >>>> societal >>>> conversation. We will all suffer from the absence of their >>>> participation >>>> and contribution to the debates that occupy us as a society." >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> George Kerscher of the Digital Accessible Information System (DAISY) >>>> Consortium, said: "The DAISY Consortium envisions a world where >>>> people with >>>> print disabilities have equal access to information and knowledge, >>>> without >>>> delay or additional expense. Authors and publishers surely must >>>> share this >>>> vision. Now that the issue of human rights has been explained, and >>>> the >>>> opportunity for larger sales are known, I urge the Authors Guild to >>>> reverse >>>> their position on text-to-speech and join us in actively >>>> encouraging all >>>> publishers and reading technology developers to open the world of >>>> reading to >>>> everybody. Authors, join us on the picket line." >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Steve Jacobs, president of IDEAL Group Inc., said, "Not only is >>>> text-to-speech important to people who are blind, it is critical in >>>> providing quality educations to millions of young people who rely on >>>> text-to-speech to learn effectively. This includes students with >>>> autism, >>>> learning disabilities, mobility disabilities, and cognitive >>>> disabilities >>>> that impact their ability to acquire information with their eyes >>>> only. I >>>> remain hopeful that the talented members of the Authors Guild come >>>> to >>>> understand the potential negative impact of disabling the text-to- >>>> speech >>>> function on their e-books and reconsider their position." >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Cynthia D. Waddell, executive director of the International Center >>>> for >>>> Disability Resources on the Internet (ICDRI), said: "The mission >>>> of ICDRI >>>> supports the removal of barriers in electronic and information >>>> technology >>>> and the promotion of equal access. ICDRI welcomes the text-to- >>>> speech >>>> functionality being offered by the Kindle 2 since it increases >>>> mainstream >>>> access to books for the first time in history. We question why the >>>> Authors >>>> Guild demands that it be turned it off since many more books would >>>> be sold >>>> if text-to-speech was turned back on. Not only >>>> >>>> does this feature benefit persons with disabilities, but it also >>>> helps >>>> persons for whom English is not their native language. In an >>>> increasingly >>>> mobile society, flexibility in access to content improves the >>>> quality of >>>> life for everyone." >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> James Love, director of Knowledge Ecology International, said: >>>> "Knowing >>>> full well that not everyone can see, the Authors Guild wants the >>>> right to be >>>> seen, but not heard. By bullying Amazon to change the technology >>>> of Kindle >>>> 2, the Authors Guild will either deny access to people who are >>>> disabled, or >>>> make them pay more. By attacking disabled persons in this way, the >>>> Authors >>>> Guild is attacking everyone who would otherwise benefit from the >>>> contributions this community has the potential to offer." >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> James H. Wendorf, executive director for the National Center for >>>> Learning >>>> Disabilities, said: "Access to the written word is the cornerstone >>>> of >>>> education and democracy. New technologies must serve individuals >>>> with >>>> disabilities, not impede them. Our homes, schools and ultimately >>>> our >>>> economy rely on support for the future, not discriminating >>>> practices and >>>> beliefs from the past." >>>> >>>> While the Kindle 2 is not currently accessible to blind users, >>>> Amazon >>>> recently announced on its Kindle 2 blog that it is currently at >>>> work on >>>> making the device's navigational features accessible to the blind. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> The coalition includes: American Association of People with >>>> Disabilities, >>>> American Council of the Blind, American Foundation for the Blind, >>>> Association on Higher Education and Disability, Bazelon Center for >>>> Mental >>>> Health Law, Burton Blatt Institute, Digital Accessible Information >>>> System >>>> (DAISY) Consortium, Disability Rights Education and Defense Fund >>>> (DREDF), >>>> IDEAL Group, Inc., International Center for Disability Resources on >>>> the >>>> Internet, International Dyslexia Association, International Dyslexia >>>> Association--New York Branch, Knowledge Ecology International, >>>> Learning >>>> Disabilities Association of America, National Center for Learning >>>> Disabilities, National Disability Rights Network, National >>>> Federation of the >>>> Blind, NISH, and the National Spinal Cord Injury Association. In >>>> addition >>>> to the April 7 New York City protest, the coalition will >>>> participate in the >>>> Los Angeles Times Festival of Books on April 25-26. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ### >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> >>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mikefry79%40gmail >> >> . >> com >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for blindlaw: >>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/everett%40zufelt.c >> a >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail >> >> . >> com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/everett%40zufelt.ca > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/chatter8712%40gmail.com > -- -Shane Website: http://www.blind-geek.com AIM: inhaddict MSN: shane at blind-geek.com Skype: chatter8712 Twitter: blind_geek From roddj12 at hotmail.com Tue Mar 31 14:12:38 2009 From: roddj12 at hotmail.com (Rod Alcidonis) Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2009 10:12:38 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Fw: Reading Rights Coalition Urges Authors to Allow Everyone Access to E-books In-Reply-To: <7556b95a0903310535v3cdfb93lcbbf27cf04bdb5e7@mail.gmail.com> References: <40DB1C3BA7A1407E83E3E7A85D0E24FE@labarre> <8c58e54a0903301021m44094b44q5bcb7e72ab209a59@mail.gmail.com> <02D7D05D-7EE8-4D75-A7F1-05A1096E94B4@zufelt.ca> <350259D0-F452-4768-AB76-04A29D84F0C3@zufelt.ca> <7556b95a0903310535v3cdfb93lcbbf27cf04bdb5e7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Folks: this situation and that of bookshare is two different, and completely separate legal analyses. Let's not continue to mix the two. It is like mixing apples and oranges just because they are both known as fruits. Unlike as some have suggested, bookshare is required to verify your disability because it is a not-for-profit entity engaging in the distribution of copyrighted books to blind individuals. Distribution of copyrighted books would constitute a violation had bookshare not adhear to the requirement that its members are blind. It has nothing to do with you getting books nearly for free. Bookshare holds no right to these materials. Think of bookshare and RFBD as an exception to the general rule. This situation, however, involves not a copyright violation of any kind. No one is sharing copyrighted information. The information on this device is already being released with the entity's permission and attached conditions; rather, what's at issue here is that the entity is fearful that by allowing people to listen to books this way, in effect would interfere with some rights, which we are debating is unclear as to what that right is. By asking for people to registrer, the entity is seeking to place itself in the shoes of Bookshare and alike, but remember that it is a commercial entity. Unlike bookshare, this entity holds the copyrighted content on these devices. Rod Alcidonis  Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009. Roger Williams University School of Law 10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 Bristol, RI 02809 Home: (401) 824-8685 Cell: (718) 704-4651  E-mail: roddj12 at hotmail.com -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Shane D Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2009 8:35 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Fw: Reading Rights Coalition Urges Authors to Allow Everyone Access to E-books Re: Bookshare, we are being given nearly free access to copyrighted books. The $50/year goes to paying Bookshare's overhead. As such, Bookshare is required by law to varify our disabilities. However, Bookshare does not share with the publisher our disability information. I think the best analogy to this situation would be the Authors Guild taking a cut of Jaws proffit because it enables us to read books with audio. Bookshare is just a source for getting books. On 3/30/09, E.J. Zufelt wrote: > Good evening, > > One part of the argument was that: "The Guilds position is immoral > since it is infringes on human rights and dignity because it exploits, > for profit, a vulnerable minority >> >>> of the population. Requiring the disabled to 'register' - like >>> some kind >>> of inferior animal - in order to use new, free, and innovative text- >>> to-speech technology...". > > Understandably Bookshare.org is not for profit, however, the strongest > words in the above citation are related to having to "...register' - > like some kind of inferior animal...". If the registration > requirement for one service is acceptable how can the registration > requirement for a similar, but recognizably different, service been > seen as treating people like "inferior animals"? > > I agree that a method needs to be found to accommodate the needs of > all involved and to respect all current laws and the right of access > to information for the text-impaired population. However, the > "inferior animals" argument does not seem to have much foundation in > the facts. Perhaps the best solution is to require digital media > distributors to leave their publications unlocked for all readers, to > ensure the most open access to information for the text-impaired, > "inferior animals" does not seem to add any weight to the legal > argument on either side of this issue. > > Thanks, > Everett > > > On 30-Mar-09, at 9:11 PM, Rod Alcidonis wrote: > >> I can't tell you how much I hate it when a legal issue is seriously >> being >> debated on this list and someone comes along with a statement that >> is at >> best, uninformed. The current issue is not even close to a bookshare >> situation. I am afraid that this listserv might soon loses its >> character >> as a legal forum for blind legal professionals. Sad. >> >> Rod Alcidonis >> Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009. >> Roger Williams University School of Law >> 10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 >> Bristol, RI 02809 >> Home: (401) 824-8685 >> Cell: (718) 704-4651 >> E-mail: roddj12 at hotmail.com >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw- >> bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf Of E.J. Zufelt >> Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 6:15 PM >> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Fw: Reading Rights Coalition Urges Authors >> to Allow >> Everyone Access to E-books >> >> Is it immoral for Bookshare to require registration aswell? >> >> Everett >> >> >> On 30-Mar-09, at 2:21 PM, Michael Fry wrote: >> >>> It is awesome that so many organizations are coalescing around such >>> a noble >>> and worthy cause. >>> >>> The Guilds position is immoral since it is infringes on human rights >>> and dignity because it exploits, for profit, a vulnerable minority >>> of the >>> population. Requiring the disabled to 'register' - like some kind >>> of inferior animal - in order to use new, free, and >>> innovative text-to-speech technology places an unnecessary obstacle >>> in path >>> of people with disablities. This obstacle is desgined solely to >>> exploit >>> money from people without the time or inclination or, who are too >>> embarrassed to register, as a text disabled individuals. They are >>> attempting to bully extra profits out of people with disabilities. >>> The >>> Guild, comprised of enlightened and educated individuals, should be >>> ashamed >>> since there is no explanation other than immoral greed for their >>> position. >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 9:16 AM, Scott C. LaBarre >>> wrote: >>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: Freeh, Jessica >>>> To: Alpidio Rolon ; Amy Buresh ; Anil Lewis ; Art Schreiber ; Beth >>>> Rival ; >>>> Bob Kresmer ; Carl Jacobsen ; Cathy Jackson ; Charlene Smyth ; >>>> Christine G. >>>> Hall ; Daniel Burke ; David Ticchi ; Don Galloway ; Donna Wood ; >>>> Elsie Lamp >>>> ; Frank Lee ; Franklin Shiner ; Fred Schroeder ; Fred Wurtzel ; >>>> Gary Ray ; >>>> Gary Wunder ; J.W. Smith ; James Antonacci ; James Broadnax ; >>>> Jennelle >>>> Bichler ; Jennifer Dunnam ; Jerree Harris ; Joe Ruffalo ; John >>>> Batron ; John >>>> Fritz ; Joyce Scanlan ; Kathy Davis ; Ken Rollman ; Kevan Worley ; >>>> Marie >>>> Johnson ; Mary Willows ; Melissa Riccobono ; Michael Barber ; >>>> Michael >>>> Freeman ; Nani Fife ; Pam Allen ; Parnell Diggs ; Patti Chang ; >>>> Richard >>>> Bennett ; Richard Gaffney ; Ron Brown ; Ron Gardner ; Sam Gleese ; >>>> Scott >>>> LaBarre ; Selena Sundling-Crawford ; Steven Priddle ; Terri Rupp ; >>>> Tommy >>>> Craig >>>> Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 7:09 AM >>>> Subject: Reading Rights Coalition Urges Authors to Allow Everyone >>>> Access to >>>> E-books >>>> >>>> >>>> FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE >>>> >>>> >>>> CONTACT: >>>> >>>> Chris Danielsen >>>> >>>> Director of Public Relations >>>> >>>> National Federation of the Blind >>>> >>>> (410) 659-9314, ext. 2330 >>>> >>>> (410) 262-1281 (Cell) >>>> cdanielsen at nfb.org >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Reading Rights Coalition Urges Authors to Allow >>>> Everyone Access to E-books >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Informational Protest to be Held at Authors Guild Headquarters >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> New York City (March 30, 2009): The Reading Rights Coalition, which >>>> represents people who cannot read print, will protest the >>>> threatened removal >>>> of the text-to-speech function from e-books for the Amazon Kindle 2 >>>> outside >>>> the Authors Guild headquarters in New York City at 31 East 32nd >>>> Street on >>>> April 7, 2009, from noon to 2:00 p.m. The coalition includes the >>>> blind, >>>> people with dyslexia, people with learning or processing issues, >>>> seniors >>>> losing vision, people with spinal cord injuries, people recovering >>>> from >>>> strokes, and many others for whom the addition of text-to-speech on >>>> the >>>> Kindle 2 promised for the first time easy, mainstream access to >>>> over 245,000 >>>> books. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> When Amazon released the Kindle 2 electronic book reader on >>>> February 9, >>>> 2009, the company announced that the device would be able to read e- >>>> books >>>> aloud using text-to-speech technology. Under pressure from the >>>> Authors >>>> Guild, Amazon has announced that it will give authors and >>>> publishers the >>>> ability to disable the text-to-speech function on any or all of >>>> their >>>> e-books available for the Kindle 2. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Dr. Marc Maurer, President of the National Federation of the Blind, >>>> said: >>>> "The blind and print-disabled have for years utilized text-to-speech >>>> technology to read and access information. As technology advances >>>> and more >>>> books move from hard-copy print to electronic formats, people with >>>> print >>>> disabilities have for the first time in history the opportunity to >>>> enjoy >>>> access to books on an equal basis with those who can read print. >>>> Authors >>>> and publishers who elect to disable text-to-speech for their e- >>>> books on the >>>> Kindle 2 prevent people who are blind or have >>>> >>>> other print disabilities from reading these e-books. This is >>>> blatant >>>> discrimination and we will not tolerate it." >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Mike Shuttic, president of the Association on Higher Education and >>>> Disability (AHEAD), said: "AHEAD envisions educational and societal >>>> environments that value disability and embody equality of >>>> opportunity. This >>>> vision of AHEAD is directly aligned with the efforts of this >>>> coalition. >>>> Although much rhetoric is made about potential obstacles and >>>> problems that >>>> exist, the basic goal is clear and simple--access for everyone. >>>> And why >>>> create something that prevents it?" >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Mitch Pomerantz, president of the American Council of the Blind, >>>> said: >>>> "Removing the text-to-speech features closes the door on an >>>> innovative >>>> technological solution that would make regular print books >>>> available to tens >>>> of thousands of individuals who are blind or visually impaired." >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Andrew Imparato, President and Chief Executive Officer for the >>>> American >>>> Association of People with Disabilities (AAPD), said: "It is >>>> outrageous when >>>> a technology device shuts out people with all kinds of >>>> disabilities. AAPD >>>> works to remove barriers to accessibility and usability in >>>> technology, and >>>> we don't expect to see people with disabilities singled out by >>>> having to pay >>>> more for access. New technologies, such as electronic books, >>>> should be >>>> available to everyone regardless of disability." >>>> >>>> Paul Schroeder, vice president of programs and policy for the >>>> American >>>> Foundation for the Blind, said: "Those of us with print >>>> disabilities have >>>> long dreamed of a world in which books and media are available to >>>> us at the >>>> same time as everyone else. The Kindle 2 offers that possibility >>>> for the >>>> first time. We hope publishers and authors come to see that text- >>>> to-speech >>>> is simply an alternative means of access to print." >>>> >>>> Dr. Peter Blanck, chairman and university professor at Burton Blatt >>>> Institute at Syracuse University, said: "As electronic books become >>>> the >>>> norm, denying universal access will result in more and more people >>>> with >>>> disabilities being left out of education, employment, and the >>>> societal >>>> conversation. We will all suffer from the absence of their >>>> participation >>>> and contribution to the debates that occupy us as a society." >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> George Kerscher of the Digital Accessible Information System (DAISY) >>>> Consortium, said: "The DAISY Consortium envisions a world where >>>> people with >>>> print disabilities have equal access to information and knowledge, >>>> without >>>> delay or additional expense. Authors and publishers surely must >>>> share this >>>> vision. Now that the issue of human rights has been explained, and >>>> the >>>> opportunity for larger sales are known, I urge the Authors Guild to >>>> reverse >>>> their position on text-to-speech and join us in actively >>>> encouraging all >>>> publishers and reading technology developers to open the world of >>>> reading to >>>> everybody. Authors, join us on the picket line." >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Steve Jacobs, president of IDEAL Group Inc., said, "Not only is >>>> text-to-speech important to people who are blind, it is critical in >>>> providing quality educations to millions of young people who rely on >>>> text-to-speech to learn effectively. This includes students with >>>> autism, >>>> learning disabilities, mobility disabilities, and cognitive >>>> disabilities >>>> that impact their ability to acquire information with their eyes >>>> only. I >>>> remain hopeful that the talented members of the Authors Guild come >>>> to >>>> understand the potential negative impact of disabling the text-to- >>>> speech >>>> function on their e-books and reconsider their position." >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Cynthia D. Waddell, executive director of the International Center >>>> for >>>> Disability Resources on the Internet (ICDRI), said: "The mission >>>> of ICDRI >>>> supports the removal of barriers in electronic and information >>>> technology >>>> and the promotion of equal access. ICDRI welcomes the text-to- >>>> speech >>>> functionality being offered by the Kindle 2 since it increases >>>> mainstream >>>> access to books for the first time in history. We question why the >>>> Authors >>>> Guild demands that it be turned it off since many more books would >>>> be sold >>>> if text-to-speech was turned back on. Not only >>>> >>>> does this feature benefit persons with disabilities, but it also >>>> helps >>>> persons for whom English is not their native language. In an >>>> increasingly >>>> mobile society, flexibility in access to content improves the >>>> quality of >>>> life for everyone." >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> James Love, director of Knowledge Ecology International, said: >>>> "Knowing >>>> full well that not everyone can see, the Authors Guild wants the >>>> right to be >>>> seen, but not heard. By bullying Amazon to change the technology >>>> of Kindle >>>> 2, the Authors Guild will either deny access to people who are >>>> disabled, or >>>> make them pay more. By attacking disabled persons in this way, the >>>> Authors >>>> Guild is attacking everyone who would otherwise benefit from the >>>> contributions this community has the potential to offer." >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> James H. Wendorf, executive director for the National Center for >>>> Learning >>>> Disabilities, said: "Access to the written word is the cornerstone >>>> of >>>> education and democracy. New technologies must serve individuals >>>> with >>>> disabilities, not impede them. Our homes, schools and ultimately >>>> our >>>> economy rely on support for the future, not discriminating >>>> practices and >>>> beliefs from the past." >>>> >>>> While the Kindle 2 is not currently accessible to blind users, >>>> Amazon >>>> recently announced on its Kindle 2 blog that it is currently at >>>> work on >>>> making the device's navigational features accessible to the blind. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> The coalition includes: American Association of People with >>>> Disabilities, >>>> American Council of the Blind, American Foundation for the Blind, >>>> Association on Higher Education and Disability, Bazelon Center for >>>> Mental >>>> Health Law, Burton Blatt Institute, Digital Accessible Information >>>> System >>>> (DAISY) Consortium, Disability Rights Education and Defense Fund >>>> (DREDF), >>>> IDEAL Group, Inc., International Center for Disability Resources on >>>> the >>>> Internet, International Dyslexia Association, International Dyslexia >>>> Association--New York Branch, Knowledge Ecology International, >>>> Learning >>>> Disabilities Association of America, National Center for Learning >>>> Disabilities, National Disability Rights Network, National >>>> Federation of the >>>> Blind, NISH, and the National Spinal Cord Injury Association. In >>>> addition >>>> to the April 7 New York City protest, the coalition will >>>> participate in the >>>> Los Angeles Times Festival of Books on April 25-26. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ### >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> >>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mikefry79%40gmail >> >> . >> com >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for blindlaw: >>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/everett%40zufelt.c >> a >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail >> >> . >> com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/everett%40zufelt.c a > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/chatter8712%40gmai l.com > -- -Shane Website: http://www.blind-geek.com AIM: inhaddict MSN: shane at blind-geek.com Skype: chatter8712 Twitter: blind_geek _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail. com From mikefry79 at gmail.com Tue Mar 31 16:00:32 2009 From: mikefry79 at gmail.com (Michael Fry) Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2009 09:00:32 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Fw: Reading Rights Coalition Urges Authors to Allow Everyone Access to E-books In-Reply-To: References: <40DB1C3BA7A1407E83E3E7A85D0E24FE@labarre> <8c58e54a0903301021m44094b44q5bcb7e72ab209a59@mail.gmail.com> <02D7D05D-7EE8-4D75-A7F1-05A1096E94B4@zufelt.ca> <350259D0-F452-4768-AB76-04A29D84F0C3@zufelt.ca> <7556b95a0903310535v3cdfb93lcbbf27cf04bdb5e7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <8c58e54a0903310900k3ccebd04nadbe49f2c96a9445@mail.gmail.com> I wish I would have been there too. How did yesterday's protest go? Wait until one of these Harvard Educated law firms that just got done cleaning the floor with Target and the U.S. Treasury Department gets a hold of this case. I almost suspect the NFB is just going through the motions of giving the Guild notice of their wrongful actions before the NFB sues the pants off of them. I agree with Rod that it seems this will be close to a legal slam dunk against the Guild. I wonder if there's some Sherman Act violations here, in addtion to ADA violations. Mike On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 7:12 AM, Rod Alcidonis wrote: > Folks: this situation and that of bookshare is two different, and > completely > separate legal analyses. Let's not continue to mix the two. It is like > mixing apples and oranges just because they are both known as fruits. > Unlike as some have suggested, bookshare is required to verify your > disability because it is a not-for-profit entity engaging in the > distribution of copyrighted books to blind individuals. Distribution of > copyrighted books would constitute a violation had bookshare not adhear to > the requirement that its members are blind. It has nothing to do with you > getting books nearly for free. Bookshare holds no right to these materials. > Think of bookshare and RFBD as an exception to the general rule. > > This situation, however, involves not a copyright violation of any kind. No > one is sharing copyrighted information. The information on this device is > already being released with the entity's permission and attached > conditions; > rather, what's at issue here is that the entity is fearful that by allowing > people to listen to books this way, in effect would interfere with some > rights, which we are debating is unclear as to what that right is. By > asking > for people to registrer, the entity is seeking to place itself in the shoes > of Bookshare and alike, but remember that it is a commercial entity. Unlike > bookshare, this entity holds the copyrighted content on these devices. > > Rod Alcidonis > Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009. > Roger Williams University School of Law > 10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 > Bristol, RI 02809 > Home: (401) 824-8685 > Cell: (718) 704-4651 > E-mail: roddj12 at hotmail.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of Shane D > Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2009 8:35 AM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Fw: Reading Rights Coalition Urges Authors to Allow > Everyone Access to E-books > > Re: Bookshare, we are being given nearly free access to copyrighted > books. The $50/year goes to paying Bookshare's overhead. As such, > Bookshare is required by law to varify our disabilities. However, > Bookshare does not share with the publisher our disability > information. > > I think the best analogy to this situation would be the Authors Guild > taking a cut of Jaws proffit because it enables us to read books with > audio. Bookshare is just a source for getting books. > > On 3/30/09, E.J. Zufelt wrote: > > Good evening, > > > > One part of the argument was that: "The Guilds position is immoral > > since it is infringes on human rights and dignity because it exploits, > > for profit, a vulnerable minority > >> > >>> of the population. Requiring the disabled to 'register' - like > >>> some kind > >>> of inferior animal - in order to use new, free, and innovative text- > >>> to-speech technology...". > > > > Understandably Bookshare.org is not for profit, however, the strongest > > words in the above citation are related to having to "...register' - > > like some kind of inferior animal...". If the registration > > requirement for one service is acceptable how can the registration > > requirement for a similar, but recognizably different, service been > > seen as treating people like "inferior animals"? > > > > I agree that a method needs to be found to accommodate the needs of > > all involved and to respect all current laws and the right of access > > to information for the text-impaired population. However, the > > "inferior animals" argument does not seem to have much foundation in > > the facts. Perhaps the best solution is to require digital media > > distributors to leave their publications unlocked for all readers, to > > ensure the most open access to information for the text-impaired, > > "inferior animals" does not seem to add any weight to the legal > > argument on either side of this issue. > > > > Thanks, > > Everett > > > > > > On 30-Mar-09, at 9:11 PM, Rod Alcidonis wrote: > > > >> I can't tell you how much I hate it when a legal issue is seriously > >> being > >> debated on this list and someone comes along with a statement that > >> is at > >> best, uninformed. The current issue is not even close to a bookshare > >> situation. I am afraid that this listserv might soon loses its > >> character > >> as a legal forum for blind legal professionals. Sad. > >> > >> Rod Alcidonis > >> Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009. > >> Roger Williams University School of Law > >> 10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 > >> Bristol, RI 02809 > >> Home: (401) 824-8685 > >> Cell: (718) 704-4651 > >> E-mail: roddj12 at hotmail.com > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw- > >> bounces at nfbnet.org] On > >> Behalf Of E.J. Zufelt > >> Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 6:15 PM > >> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Fw: Reading Rights Coalition Urges Authors > >> to Allow > >> Everyone Access to E-books > >> > >> Is it immoral for Bookshare to require registration aswell? > >> > >> Everett > >> > >> > >> On 30-Mar-09, at 2:21 PM, Michael Fry wrote: > >> > >>> It is awesome that so many organizations are coalescing around such > >>> a noble > >>> and worthy cause. > >>> > >>> The Guilds position is immoral since it is infringes on human rights > >>> and dignity because it exploits, for profit, a vulnerable minority > >>> of the > >>> population. Requiring the disabled to 'register' - like some kind > >>> of inferior animal - in order to use new, free, and > >>> innovative text-to-speech technology places an unnecessary obstacle > >>> in path > >>> of people with disablities. This obstacle is desgined solely to > >>> exploit > >>> money from people without the time or inclination or, who are too > >>> embarrassed to register, as a text disabled individuals. They are > >>> attempting to bully extra profits out of people with disabilities. > >>> The > >>> Guild, comprised of enlightened and educated individuals, should be > >>> ashamed > >>> since there is no explanation other than immoral greed for their > >>> position. > >>> > >>> > >>> On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 9:16 AM, Scott C. LaBarre > >>> wrote: > >>> > >>>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>>> From: Freeh, Jessica > >>>> To: Alpidio Rolon ; Amy Buresh ; Anil Lewis ; Art Schreiber ; Beth > >>>> Rival ; > >>>> Bob Kresmer ; Carl Jacobsen ; Cathy Jackson ; Charlene Smyth ; > >>>> Christine G. > >>>> Hall ; Daniel Burke ; David Ticchi ; Don Galloway ; Donna Wood ; > >>>> Elsie Lamp > >>>> ; Frank Lee ; Franklin Shiner ; Fred Schroeder ; Fred Wurtzel ; > >>>> Gary Ray ; > >>>> Gary Wunder ; J.W. Smith ; James Antonacci ; James Broadnax ; > >>>> Jennelle > >>>> Bichler ; Jennifer Dunnam ; Jerree Harris ; Joe Ruffalo ; John > >>>> Batron ; John > >>>> Fritz ; Joyce Scanlan ; Kathy Davis ; Ken Rollman ; Kevan Worley ; > >>>> Marie > >>>> Johnson ; Mary Willows ; Melissa Riccobono ; Michael Barber ; > >>>> Michael > >>>> Freeman ; Nani Fife ; Pam Allen ; Parnell Diggs ; Patti Chang ; > >>>> Richard > >>>> Bennett ; Richard Gaffney ; Ron Brown ; Ron Gardner ; Sam Gleese ; > >>>> Scott > >>>> LaBarre ; Selena Sundling-Crawford ; Steven Priddle ; Terri Rupp ; > >>>> Tommy > >>>> Craig > >>>> Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 7:09 AM > >>>> Subject: Reading Rights Coalition Urges Authors to Allow Everyone > >>>> Access to > >>>> E-books > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> CONTACT: > >>>> > >>>> Chris Danielsen > >>>> > >>>> Director of Public Relations > >>>> > >>>> National Federation of the Blind > >>>> > >>>> (410) 659-9314, ext. 2330 > >>>> > >>>> (410) 262-1281 (Cell) > >>>> cdanielsen at nfb.org > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Reading Rights Coalition Urges Authors to Allow > >>>> Everyone Access to E-books > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Informational Protest to be Held at Authors Guild Headquarters > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> New York City (March 30, 2009): The Reading Rights Coalition, which > >>>> represents people who cannot read print, will protest the > >>>> threatened removal > >>>> of the text-to-speech function from e-books for the Amazon Kindle 2 > >>>> outside > >>>> the Authors Guild headquarters in New York City at 31 East 32nd > >>>> Street on > >>>> April 7, 2009, from noon to 2:00 p.m. The coalition includes the > >>>> blind, > >>>> people with dyslexia, people with learning or processing issues, > >>>> seniors > >>>> losing vision, people with spinal cord injuries, people recovering > >>>> from > >>>> strokes, and many others for whom the addition of text-to-speech on > >>>> the > >>>> Kindle 2 promised for the first time easy, mainstream access to > >>>> over 245,000 > >>>> books. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> When Amazon released the Kindle 2 electronic book reader on > >>>> February 9, > >>>> 2009, the company announced that the device would be able to read e- > >>>> books > >>>> aloud using text-to-speech technology. Under pressure from the > >>>> Authors > >>>> Guild, Amazon has announced that it will give authors and > >>>> publishers the > >>>> ability to disable the text-to-speech function on any or all of > >>>> their > >>>> e-books available for the Kindle 2. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Dr. Marc Maurer, President of the National Federation of the Blind, > >>>> said: > >>>> "The blind and print-disabled have for years utilized text-to-speech > >>>> technology to read and access information. As technology advances > >>>> and more > >>>> books move from hard-copy print to electronic formats, people with > >>>> print > >>>> disabilities have for the first time in history the opportunity to > >>>> enjoy > >>>> access to books on an equal basis with those who can read print. > >>>> Authors > >>>> and publishers who elect to disable text-to-speech for their e- > >>>> books on the > >>>> Kindle 2 prevent people who are blind or have > >>>> > >>>> other print disabilities from reading these e-books. This is > >>>> blatant > >>>> discrimination and we will not tolerate it." > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Mike Shuttic, president of the Association on Higher Education and > >>>> Disability (AHEAD), said: "AHEAD envisions educational and societal > >>>> environments that value disability and embody equality of > >>>> opportunity. This > >>>> vision of AHEAD is directly aligned with the efforts of this > >>>> coalition. > >>>> Although much rhetoric is made about potential obstacles and > >>>> problems that > >>>> exist, the basic goal is clear and simple--access for everyone. > >>>> And why > >>>> create something that prevents it?" > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Mitch Pomerantz, president of the American Council of the Blind, > >>>> said: > >>>> "Removing the text-to-speech features closes the door on an > >>>> innovative > >>>> technological solution that would make regular print books > >>>> available to tens > >>>> of thousands of individuals who are blind or visually impaired." > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Andrew Imparato, President and Chief Executive Officer for the > >>>> American > >>>> Association of People with Disabilities (AAPD), said: "It is > >>>> outrageous when > >>>> a technology device shuts out people with all kinds of > >>>> disabilities. AAPD > >>>> works to remove barriers to accessibility and usability in > >>>> technology, and > >>>> we don't expect to see people with disabilities singled out by > >>>> having to pay > >>>> more for access. New technologies, such as electronic books, > >>>> should be > >>>> available to everyone regardless of disability." > >>>> > >>>> Paul Schroeder, vice president of programs and policy for the > >>>> American > >>>> Foundation for the Blind, said: "Those of us with print > >>>> disabilities have > >>>> long dreamed of a world in which books and media are available to > >>>> us at the > >>>> same time as everyone else. The Kindle 2 offers that possibility > >>>> for the > >>>> first time. We hope publishers and authors come to see that text- > >>>> to-speech > >>>> is simply an alternative means of access to print." > >>>> > >>>> Dr. Peter Blanck, chairman and university professor at Burton Blatt > >>>> Institute at Syracuse University, said: "As electronic books become > >>>> the > >>>> norm, denying universal access will result in more and more people > >>>> with > >>>> disabilities being left out of education, employment, and the > >>>> societal > >>>> conversation. We will all suffer from the absence of their > >>>> participation > >>>> and contribution to the debates that occupy us as a society." > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> George Kerscher of the Digital Accessible Information System (DAISY) > >>>> Consortium, said: "The DAISY Consortium envisions a world where > >>>> people with > >>>> print disabilities have equal access to information and knowledge, > >>>> without > >>>> delay or additional expense. Authors and publishers surely must > >>>> share this > >>>> vision. Now that the issue of human rights has been explained, and > >>>> the > >>>> opportunity for larger sales are known, I urge the Authors Guild to > >>>> reverse > >>>> their position on text-to-speech and join us in actively > >>>> encouraging all > >>>> publishers and reading technology developers to open the world of > >>>> reading to > >>>> everybody. Authors, join us on the picket line." > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Steve Jacobs, president of IDEAL Group Inc., said, "Not only is > >>>> text-to-speech important to people who are blind, it is critical in > >>>> providing quality educations to millions of young people who rely on > >>>> text-to-speech to learn effectively. This includes students with > >>>> autism, > >>>> learning disabilities, mobility disabilities, and cognitive > >>>> disabilities > >>>> that impact their ability to acquire information with their eyes > >>>> only. I > >>>> remain hopeful that the talented members of the Authors Guild come > >>>> to > >>>> understand the potential negative impact of disabling the text-to- > >>>> speech > >>>> function on their e-books and reconsider their position." > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Cynthia D. Waddell, executive director of the International Center > >>>> for > >>>> Disability Resources on the Internet (ICDRI), said: "The mission > >>>> of ICDRI > >>>> supports the removal of barriers in electronic and information > >>>> technology > >>>> and the promotion of equal access. ICDRI welcomes the text-to- > >>>> speech > >>>> functionality being offered by the Kindle 2 since it increases > >>>> mainstream > >>>> access to books for the first time in history. We question why the > >>>> Authors > >>>> Guild demands that it be turned it off since many more books would > >>>> be sold > >>>> if text-to-speech was turned back on. Not only > >>>> > >>>> does this feature benefit persons with disabilities, but it also > >>>> helps > >>>> persons for whom English is not their native language. In an > >>>> increasingly > >>>> mobile society, flexibility in access to content improves the > >>>> quality of > >>>> life for everyone." > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> James Love, director of Knowledge Ecology International, said: > >>>> "Knowing > >>>> full well that not everyone can see, the Authors Guild wants the > >>>> right to be > >>>> seen, but not heard. By bullying Amazon to change the technology > >>>> of Kindle > >>>> 2, the Authors Guild will either deny access to people who are > >>>> disabled, or > >>>> make them pay more. By attacking disabled persons in this way, the > >>>> Authors > >>>> Guild is attacking everyone who would otherwise benefit from the > >>>> contributions this community has the potential to offer." > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> James H. Wendorf, executive director for the National Center for > >>>> Learning > >>>> Disabilities, said: "Access to the written word is the cornerstone > >>>> of > >>>> education and democracy. New technologies must serve individuals > >>>> with > >>>> disabilities, not impede them. Our homes, schools and ultimately > >>>> our > >>>> economy rely on support for the future, not discriminating > >>>> practices and > >>>> beliefs from the past." > >>>> > >>>> While the Kindle 2 is not currently accessible to blind users, > >>>> Amazon > >>>> recently announced on its Kindle 2 blog that it is currently at > >>>> work on > >>>> making the device's navigational features accessible to the blind. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> The coalition includes: American Association of People with > >>>> Disabilities, > >>>> American Council of the Blind, American Foundation for the Blind, > >>>> Association on Higher Education and Disability, Bazelon Center for > >>>> Mental > >>>> Health Law, Burton Blatt Institute, Digital Accessible Information > >>>> System > >>>> (DAISY) Consortium, Disability Rights Education and Defense Fund > >>>> (DREDF), > >>>> IDEAL Group, Inc., International Center for Disability Resources on > >>>> the > >>>> Internet, International Dyslexia Association, International Dyslexia > >>>> Association--New York Branch, Knowledge Ecology International, > >>>> Learning > >>>> Disabilities Association of America, National Center for Learning > >>>> Disabilities, National Disability Rights Network, National > >>>> Federation of the > >>>> Blind, NISH, and the National Spinal Cord Injury Association. In > >>>> addition > >>>> to the April 7 New York City protest, the coalition will > >>>> participate in the > >>>> Los Angeles Times Festival of Books on April 25-26. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> ### > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> blindlaw mailing list > >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > >>>> for > >>>> blindlaw: > >>>> > >>>> > >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mikefry79%40gmail > >> > >> . > >> com > >>>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> blindlaw mailing list > >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > >>> for blindlaw: > >>> > >> > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/everett%40zufelt.c > >> a > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> blindlaw mailing list > >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> blindlaw: > >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail > >> > >> . > >> com > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> blindlaw mailing list > >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > >> for blindlaw: > >> > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/everett%40zufelt.c > a > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > blindlaw mailing list > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > blindlaw: > > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/chatter8712%40gmai > l.com > > > > > -- > -Shane > Website: http://www.blind-geek.com > AIM: inhaddict > MSN: shane at blind-geek.com > Skype: chatter8712 > Twitter: blind_geek > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail. > com > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mikefry79%40gmail.com > From mworkman at ualberta.ca Tue Mar 31 16:52:56 2009 From: mworkman at ualberta.ca (mworkman at ualberta.ca) Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2009 10:52:56 -0600 Subject: [blindlaw] Fw: Reading Rights Coalition Urges Authors toAllow Everyone Access to E-books In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Rod, it looks to me like you are begging the question. You say the two cases are completely different because one involves distributing copyrighted material under the exception for persons with disabilities, and the other case does not involve a violation of copyright, but the latter point is exactly what is up for debate. The author's guild is claiming that the TTS on the Kindel is, in fact, a violation of copyright, which they are prepared to overlook as an exception for people with print disabilities, provided that people register, exactly as they must in the case of Bookshare. Personally, I don't think that TTS should be construed as a violation of copyright, but you can't say two cases are different because of X, and then simply assert X, as you have done. Marc -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]On Behalf Of Rod Alcidonis Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2009 8:13 AM To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Fw: Reading Rights Coalition Urges Authors toAllow Everyone Access to E-books Folks: this situation and that of bookshare is two different, and completely separate legal analyses. Let's not continue to mix the two. It is like mixing apples and oranges just because they are both known as fruits. Unlike as some have suggested, bookshare is required to verify your disability because it is a not-for-profit entity engaging in the distribution of copyrighted books to blind individuals. Distribution of copyrighted books would constitute a violation had bookshare not adhear to the requirement that its members are blind. It has nothing to do with you getting books nearly for free. Bookshare holds no right to these materials. Think of bookshare and RFBD as an exception to the general rule. This situation, however, involves not a copyright violation of any kind. No one is sharing copyrighted information. The information on this device is already being released with the entity's permission and attached conditions; rather, what's at issue here is that the entity is fearful that by allowing people to listen to books this way, in effect would interfere with some rights, which we are debating is unclear as to what that right is. By asking for people to registrer, the entity is seeking to place itself in the shoes of Bookshare and alike, but remember that it is a commercial entity. Unlike bookshare, this entity holds the copyrighted content on these devices. Rod Alcidonis  Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009. Roger Williams University School of Law 10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 Bristol, RI 02809 Home: (401) 824-8685 Cell: (718) 704-4651  E-mail: roddj12 at hotmail.com -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Shane D Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2009 8:35 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Fw: Reading Rights Coalition Urges Authors to Allow Everyone Access to E-books Re: Bookshare, we are being given nearly free access to copyrighted books. The $50/year goes to paying Bookshare's overhead. As such, Bookshare is required by law to varify our disabilities. However, Bookshare does not share with the publisher our disability information. I think the best analogy to this situation would be the Authors Guild taking a cut of Jaws proffit because it enables us to read books with audio. Bookshare is just a source for getting books. On 3/30/09, E.J. Zufelt wrote: > Good evening, > > One part of the argument was that: "The Guilds position is immoral > since it is infringes on human rights and dignity because it exploits, > for profit, a vulnerable minority >> >>> of the population. Requiring the disabled to 'register' - like >>> some kind >>> of inferior animal - in order to use new, free, and innovative text- >>> to-speech technology...". > > Understandably Bookshare.org is not for profit, however, the strongest > words in the above citation are related to having to "...register' - > like some kind of inferior animal...". If the registration > requirement for one service is acceptable how can the registration > requirement for a similar, but recognizably different, service been > seen as treating people like "inferior animals"? > > I agree that a method needs to be found to accommodate the needs of > all involved and to respect all current laws and the right of access > to information for the text-impaired population. However, the > "inferior animals" argument does not seem to have much foundation in > the facts. Perhaps the best solution is to require digital media > distributors to leave their publications unlocked for all readers, to > ensure the most open access to information for the text-impaired, > "inferior animals" does not seem to add any weight to the legal > argument on either side of this issue. > > Thanks, > Everett > > > On 30-Mar-09, at 9:11 PM, Rod Alcidonis wrote: > >> I can't tell you how much I hate it when a legal issue is seriously >> being >> debated on this list and someone comes along with a statement that >> is at >> best, uninformed. The current issue is not even close to a bookshare >> situation. I am afraid that this listserv might soon loses its >> character >> as a legal forum for blind legal professionals. Sad. >> >> Rod Alcidonis >> Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009. >> Roger Williams University School of Law >> 10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 >> Bristol, RI 02809 >> Home: (401) 824-8685 >> Cell: (718) 704-4651 >> E-mail: roddj12 at hotmail.com >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw- >> bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf Of E.J. Zufelt >> Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 6:15 PM >> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Fw: Reading Rights Coalition Urges Authors >> to Allow >> Everyone Access to E-books >> >> Is it immoral for Bookshare to require registration aswell? >> >> Everett >> >> >> On 30-Mar-09, at 2:21 PM, Michael Fry wrote: >> >>> It is awesome that so many organizations are coalescing around such >>> a noble >>> and worthy cause. >>> >>> The Guilds position is immoral since it is infringes on human rights >>> and dignity because it exploits, for profit, a vulnerable minority >>> of the >>> population. Requiring the disabled to 'register' - like some kind >>> of inferior animal - in order to use new, free, and >>> innovative text-to-speech technology places an unnecessary obstacle >>> in path >>> of people with disablities. This obstacle is desgined solely to >>> exploit >>> money from people without the time or inclination or, who are too >>> embarrassed to register, as a text disabled individuals. They are >>> attempting to bully extra profits out of people with disabilities. >>> The >>> Guild, comprised of enlightened and educated individuals, should be >>> ashamed >>> since there is no explanation other than immoral greed for their >>> position. >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 9:16 AM, Scott C. LaBarre >>> wrote: >>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: Freeh, Jessica >>>> To: Alpidio Rolon ; Amy Buresh ; Anil Lewis ; Art Schreiber ; Beth >>>> Rival ; >>>> Bob Kresmer ; Carl Jacobsen ; Cathy Jackson ; Charlene Smyth ; >>>> Christine G. >>>> Hall ; Daniel Burke ; David Ticchi ; Don Galloway ; Donna Wood ; >>>> Elsie Lamp >>>> ; Frank Lee ; Franklin Shiner ; Fred Schroeder ; Fred Wurtzel ; >>>> Gary Ray ; >>>> Gary Wunder ; J.W. Smith ; James Antonacci ; James Broadnax ; >>>> Jennelle >>>> Bichler ; Jennifer Dunnam ; Jerree Harris ; Joe Ruffalo ; John >>>> Batron ; John >>>> Fritz ; Joyce Scanlan ; Kathy Davis ; Ken Rollman ; Kevan Worley ; >>>> Marie >>>> Johnson ; Mary Willows ; Melissa Riccobono ; Michael Barber ; >>>> Michael >>>> Freeman ; Nani Fife ; Pam Allen ; Parnell Diggs ; Patti Chang ; >>>> Richard >>>> Bennett ; Richard Gaffney ; Ron Brown ; Ron Gardner ; Sam Gleese ; >>>> Scott >>>> LaBarre ; Selena Sundling-Crawford ; Steven Priddle ; Terri Rupp ; >>>> Tommy >>>> Craig >>>> Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 7:09 AM >>>> Subject: Reading Rights Coalition Urges Authors to Allow Everyone >>>> Access to >>>> E-books >>>> >>>> >>>> FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE >>>> >>>> >>>> CONTACT: >>>> >>>> Chris Danielsen >>>> >>>> Director of Public Relations >>>> >>>> National Federation of the Blind >>>> >>>> (410) 659-9314, ext. 2330 >>>> >>>> (410) 262-1281 (Cell) >>>> cdanielsen at nfb.org >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Reading Rights Coalition Urges Authors to Allow >>>> Everyone Access to E-books >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Informational Protest to be Held at Authors Guild Headquarters >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> New York City (March 30, 2009): The Reading Rights Coalition, which >>>> represents people who cannot read print, will protest the >>>> threatened removal >>>> of the text-to-speech function from e-books for the Amazon Kindle 2 >>>> outside >>>> the Authors Guild headquarters in New York City at 31 East 32nd >>>> Street on >>>> April 7, 2009, from noon to 2:00 p.m. The coalition includes the >>>> blind, >>>> people with dyslexia, people with learning or processing issues, >>>> seniors >>>> losing vision, people with spinal cord injuries, people recovering >>>> from >>>> strokes, and many others for whom the addition of text-to-speech on >>>> the >>>> Kindle 2 promised for the first time easy, mainstream access to >>>> over 245,000 >>>> books. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> When Amazon released the Kindle 2 electronic book reader on >>>> February 9, >>>> 2009, the company announced that the device would be able to read e- >>>> books >>>> aloud using text-to-speech technology. Under pressure from the >>>> Authors >>>> Guild, Amazon has announced that it will give authors and >>>> publishers the >>>> ability to disable the text-to-speech function on any or all of >>>> their >>>> e-books available for the Kindle 2. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Dr. Marc Maurer, President of the National Federation of the Blind, >>>> said: >>>> "The blind and print-disabled have for years utilized text-to-speech >>>> technology to read and access information. As technology advances >>>> and more >>>> books move from hard-copy print to electronic formats, people with >>>> print >>>> disabilities have for the first time in history the opportunity to >>>> enjoy >>>> access to books on an equal basis with those who can read print. >>>> Authors >>>> and publishers who elect to disable text-to-speech for their e- >>>> books on the >>>> Kindle 2 prevent people who are blind or have >>>> >>>> other print disabilities from reading these e-books. This is >>>> blatant >>>> discrimination and we will not tolerate it." >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Mike Shuttic, president of the Association on Higher Education and >>>> Disability (AHEAD), said: "AHEAD envisions educational and societal >>>> environments that value disability and embody equality of >>>> opportunity. This >>>> vision of AHEAD is directly aligned with the efforts of this >>>> coalition. >>>> Although much rhetoric is made about potential obstacles and >>>> problems that >>>> exist, the basic goal is clear and simple--access for everyone. >>>> And why >>>> create something that prevents it?" >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Mitch Pomerantz, president of the American Council of the Blind, >>>> said: >>>> "Removing the text-to-speech features closes the door on an >>>> innovative >>>> technological solution that would make regular print books >>>> available to tens >>>> of thousands of individuals who are blind or visually impaired." >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Andrew Imparato, President and Chief Executive Officer for the >>>> American >>>> Association of People with Disabilities (AAPD), said: "It is >>>> outrageous when >>>> a technology device shuts out people with all kinds of >>>> disabilities. AAPD >>>> works to remove barriers to accessibility and usability in >>>> technology, and >>>> we don't expect to see people with disabilities singled out by >>>> having to pay >>>> more for access. New technologies, such as electronic books, >>>> should be >>>> available to everyone regardless of disability." >>>> >>>> Paul Schroeder, vice president of programs and policy for the >>>> American >>>> Foundation for the Blind, said: "Those of us with print >>>> disabilities have >>>> long dreamed of a world in which books and media are available to >>>> us at the >>>> same time as everyone else. The Kindle 2 offers that possibility >>>> for the >>>> first time. We hope publishers and authors come to see that text- >>>> to-speech >>>> is simply an alternative means of access to print." >>>> >>>> Dr. Peter Blanck, chairman and university professor at Burton Blatt >>>> Institute at Syracuse University, said: "As electronic books become >>>> the >>>> norm, denying universal access will result in more and more people >>>> with >>>> disabilities being left out of education, employment, and the >>>> societal >>>> conversation. We will all suffer from the absence of their >>>> participation >>>> and contribution to the debates that occupy us as a society." >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> George Kerscher of the Digital Accessible Information System (DAISY) >>>> Consortium, said: "The DAISY Consortium envisions a world where >>>> people with >>>> print disabilities have equal access to information and knowledge, >>>> without >>>> delay or additional expense. Authors and publishers surely must >>>> share this >>>> vision. Now that the issue of human rights has been explained, and >>>> the >>>> opportunity for larger sales are known, I urge the Authors Guild to >>>> reverse >>>> their position on text-to-speech and join us in actively >>>> encouraging all >>>> publishers and reading technology developers to open the world of >>>> reading to >>>> everybody. Authors, join us on the picket line." >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Steve Jacobs, president of IDEAL Group Inc., said, "Not only is >>>> text-to-speech important to people who are blind, it is critical in >>>> providing quality educations to millions of young people who rely on >>>> text-to-speech to learn effectively. This includes students with >>>> autism, >>>> learning disabilities, mobility disabilities, and cognitive >>>> disabilities >>>> that impact their ability to acquire information with their eyes >>>> only. I >>>> remain hopeful that the talented members of the Authors Guild come >>>> to >>>> understand the potential negative impact of disabling the text-to- >>>> speech >>>> function on their e-books and reconsider their position." >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Cynthia D. Waddell, executive director of the International Center >>>> for >>>> Disability Resources on the Internet (ICDRI), said: "The mission >>>> of ICDRI >>>> supports the removal of barriers in electronic and information >>>> technology >>>> and the promotion of equal access. ICDRI welcomes the text-to- >>>> speech >>>> functionality being offered by the Kindle 2 since it increases >>>> mainstream >>>> access to books for the first time in history. We question why the >>>> Authors >>>> Guild demands that it be turned it off since many more books would >>>> be sold >>>> if text-to-speech was turned back on. Not only >>>> >>>> does this feature benefit persons with disabilities, but it also >>>> helps >>>> persons for whom English is not their native language. In an >>>> increasingly >>>> mobile society, flexibility in access to content improves the >>>> quality of >>>> life for everyone." >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> James Love, director of Knowledge Ecology International, said: >>>> "Knowing >>>> full well that not everyone can see, the Authors Guild wants the >>>> right to be >>>> seen, but not heard. By bullying Amazon to change the technology >>>> of Kindle >>>> 2, the Authors Guild will either deny access to people who are >>>> disabled, or >>>> make them pay more. By attacking disabled persons in this way, the >>>> Authors >>>> Guild is attacking everyone who would otherwise benefit from the >>>> contributions this community has the potential to offer." >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> James H. Wendorf, executive director for the National Center for >>>> Learning >>>> Disabilities, said: "Access to the written word is the cornerstone >>>> of >>>> education and democracy. New technologies must serve individuals >>>> with >>>> disabilities, not impede them. Our homes, schools and ultimately >>>> our >>>> economy rely on support for the future, not discriminating >>>> practices and >>>> beliefs from the past." >>>> >>>> While the Kindle 2 is not currently accessible to blind users, >>>> Amazon >>>> recently announced on its Kindle 2 blog that it is currently at >>>> work on >>>> making the device's navigational features accessible to the blind. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> The coalition includes: American Association of People with >>>> Disabilities, >>>> American Council of the Blind, American Foundation for the Blind, >>>> Association on Higher Education and Disability, Bazelon Center for >>>> Mental >>>> Health Law, Burton Blatt Institute, Digital Accessible Information >>>> System >>>> (DAISY) Consortium, Disability Rights Education and Defense Fund >>>> (DREDF), >>>> IDEAL Group, Inc., International Center for Disability Resources on >>>> the >>>> Internet, International Dyslexia Association, International Dyslexia >>>> Association--New York Branch, Knowledge Ecology International, >>>> Learning >>>> Disabilities Association of America, National Center for Learning >>>> Disabilities, National Disability Rights Network, National >>>> Federation of the >>>> Blind, NISH, and the National Spinal Cord Injury Association. In >>>> addition >>>> to the April 7 New York City protest, the coalition will >>>> participate in the >>>> Los Angeles Times Festival of Books on April 25-26. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ### >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> >>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mikefry79%40gmail >> >> . >> com >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for blindlaw: >>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/everett%40zufelt.c >> a >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail >> >> . >> com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/everett%40zufelt.c a > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/chatter8712%40gmai l.com > -- -Shane Website: http://www.blind-geek.com AIM: inhaddict MSN: shane at blind-geek.com Skype: chatter8712 Twitter: blind_geek _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail. com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mworkman%40ualbert a.ca From mar.cra at comcast.net Tue Mar 31 17:05:16 2009 From: mar.cra at comcast.net (Craig R. Anderson) Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2009 17:05:16 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [blindlaw] Kindle E-Reader: A Trojan Horse for Free Thought In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1146423434.1444691238519116668.JavaMail.root@sz0094a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Dave, Heady thoughts indeed. But isn't Ms. Walsh a little too alarmist? How, after all, is a digitalized book on a Kindle Reader significantly different in this respect from a borrowed library book? Thanks in any event for posting the essay. Regards. Craig ----- David B Andrews wrote: > With all the discussion about the Kindle, and what it permits, and > doesn't permit, I thought this might be of interest to some. > > David Andrews > > > Kindle E-Reader: A Trojan Horse for Free Thought > > By Emily Walshe > The Christian Science Monitor > from the March 18, 2009 edition > <http://www.csmonitor.com/2009/0318/p09s01-coop.html> > > Brookville, N.Y. - All you really need to know about > the dangers of digital commodification you learned in > kindergarten. > > Think back. Remember swapping your baloney sandwich for > Jell-o pudding? Now, imagine handing over your sandwich > and getting just a spoon. > > That's one trade you'd never make again. > > Yet that's just what millions of Americans are doing > every day when they read "books" on Kindle, Amazon's e- > reading device. In our rush to adopt new technologies, > we have too readily surrendered ownership in favor of > its twisted sister, access. > > Web 2.0 and its culture of collaboration supposedly > unleashed a sharing society. But we can share only what > we own. And as more and more content gets digitized, > commercialized, and monopolized, our cultural integrity > is threatened. The free and balanced flow of > information that gives shape to democratic society is > jeopardized. > > For now, though, Kindle is on fire in the marketplace. > Who could resist reading "what you want, when you want > it?" Access to more than 240,000 books is just seconds > away. And its "revolutionary electronic-paper display > ... looks and reads like real paper." > > But it comes with restrictions: You can't resell or > share your books - because you don't own them. You can > download only from Amazon's store, making it difficult > to read anything that is not routed through Amazon > first. You're not buying a book; you're buying access > to a book. No, it's not like borrowing a book from a > library, because there is no public investment. It's > like taking an interest-only mortgage out on > intellectual property. > > If our flailing economy is to teach us anything, it > might be that an on-demand world of universal access > (with words like lease, licensure, and liquidity) gets > us into trouble. Amazon and other e-media aggregators > know that digital text is the irrational exuberance of > the day, and so are seizing the opportunity to codify, > commodify, and control access for tomorrow. But access > doesn't "look and read" like printed paper at all - > just ask any forlorn investor. Access is useless > currency. > > Why is this important? Because Kindle is the kind of > technology that challenges media freedom and restricts > media pluralism. It exacerbates what historian William > Leach calls "the landscape of the temporary": a hyper > mobile and rootless society that prefers access to > ownership. Such a society is vulnerable to the dangers > of selective censorship and control. > > Digital rights management (DRM), which Kindle uses to > lock in its library, raises critical questions about > the nature of property and identity in digital culture. > Culture plays a large role - in some ways, larger than > government - in shaping who we are as individuals in a > society. The First Amendment protects our right to > participate in the production of that culture. The > widespread commodification of access is shaping nearly > every aspect of modern citizenship. There are benefits, > to be sure, but this transformation also poses a big- > time threat to free expression and assembly. > > When Facebook, for example, proposed revisions to its > terms of service last month - claiming ownership of > user profiles and personal data - the successful > backlash it spawned caused complex (even existential) > ideas about property, identity, and capitulation to > bubble up: Is my Facebook profile the essence of who I > am? If so, who owns me? > > The hallmark of a constitutionally governed society, > after all, is the acknowledgment that we are the > authors of our own experience. In an Internet age, this > is manifest not only in published works, but also an > ever-evolving host of user-generated content (Twitter, > Blogger, Facebook, YouTube, etc.). If service providers > lay claim to digital content now, how will it all end? > > Print may be dying, but the idea of print would be the > more critical demise: the idea that there needs to be a > record - an artifact of permanence, residence, and > posterity - that is independent of some well-appointed > thingamajig in order to be seen, touched, understood, > or wholly possessed. > > "You don't have to burn books to destroy a culture," > Ray Bradbury once said. "Just get people to stop > reading them." > > Access equals control. In this case, it is control over > what is read and what is not; what is referenced and > what is overlooked; what is retained and what is > deleted; what is and what seems to be. > > To kindle, we must remember, is to set fire to. The > combustible power of this device (and others like it) > lies in their quiet but constant claim to intangible, > algorithmic capital. What the Kindle should be igniting > is serious debate on the fundamental, inalienable right > to property in a digital age - and clarifying what's > yours, mine, and ours. > > It should strike a match against the winner-take-all > casino economies that this kind of technology > engenders; revitalize American libraries and other > social institutions in their quest to preserve the > doctrines of fair use and first sale (which allow for > free and lawful sharing); and finally, spark Americans > to consider the extent to which they are handing over > their baloney sandwich for a plastic spoon. > > Like a lot of people, I'm a sucker for a good book. But > not at the expense of freedom, or foreclosure of > thought. > > > Emily Walshe is a librarian and professor at Long > Island University in New York. > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mar.cra%40comcast.net From craig.borne at dot.gov Tue Mar 31 18:09:48 2009 From: craig.borne at dot.gov (craig.borne at dot.gov) Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2009 14:09:48 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Kindle E-Reader: A Trojan Horse for Free Thought In-Reply-To: <1146423434.1444691238519116668.JavaMail.root@sz0094a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> References: <1146423434.1444691238519116668.JavaMail.root@sz0094a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <61017FCC3706464B8ACB770A8038174E371C45@OSTMAIL03VS3.ad.dot.gov> Hi Craig, One major difference I see is that a library book is never owned by the patron. It is merely borrowed. On the other hand, the patron who purchases the electronic book on the Kindle is purchasing the same privileages as one who purchases a hard copy of the book, yet that purchase, though promising ownership of the book, is severely limited as to the portability of that book, which is not the case with a hard bound book. My impression of the article's focus was that we are indeed heading into a great technological age, but we also seem to be giving up certain privileages along the way. ITunes is another great example: I can purchase an entire albumn of music, but I am limited in how I want to listen to that music. I am also limited in allowing my neighbor to borrow the albumn to decide whether or not he is interested in purchasing it for himself (I am not suggesting any copying of the albumn in this example). Craig Craig Borne NHTSA/DOT (202) 493-0627 craig.borne at dot.gov -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Craig R. Anderson Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2009 1:05 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Kindle E-Reader: A Trojan Horse for Free Thought Dave, Heady thoughts indeed. But isn't Ms. Walsh a little too alarmist? How, after all, is a digitalized book on a Kindle Reader significantly different in this respect from a borrowed library book? Thanks in any event for posting the essay. Regards. Craig ----- David B Andrews wrote: > With all the discussion about the Kindle, and what it permits, and > doesn't permit, I thought this might be of interest to some. > > David Andrews > > > Kindle E-Reader: A Trojan Horse for Free Thought > > By Emily Walshe > The Christian Science Monitor > from the March 18, 2009 edition > <http://www.csmonitor.com/200 9/0318/p09s01-coop.html> > > Brookville, N.Y. - All you really need to know about > the dangers of digital commodification you learned in > kindergarten. > > Think back. Remember swapping your baloney sandwich for > Jell-o pudding? Now, imagine handing over your sandwich > and getting just a spoon. > > That's one trade you'd never make again. > > Yet that's just what millions of Americans are doing > every day when they read "books" on Kindle, Amazon's e- > reading device. In our rush to adopt new technologies, > we have too readily surrendered ownership in favor of > its twisted sister, access. > > Web 2.0 and its culture of collaboration supposedly > unleashed a sharing society. But we can share only what > we own. And as more and more content gets digitized, > commercialized, and monopolized, our cultural integrity > is threatened. The free and balanced flow of > information that gives shape to democratic society is > jeopardized. > > For now, though, Kindle is on fire in the marketplace. > Who could resist reading "what you want, when you want > it?" Access to more than 240,000 books is just seconds > away. And its "revolutionary electronic-paper display > ... looks and reads like real paper." > > But it comes with restrictions: You can't resell or > share your books - because you don't own them. You can > download only from Amazon's store, making it difficult > to read anything that is not routed through Amazon > first. You're not buying a book; you're buying access > to a book. No, it's not like borrowing a book from a > library, because there is no public investment. It's > like taking an interest-only mortgage out on > intellectual property. > > If our flailing economy is to teach us anything, it > might be that an on-demand world of universal access > (with words like lease, licensure, and liquidity) gets > us into trouble. Amazon and other e-media aggregators > know that digital text is the irrational exuberance of > the day, and so are seizing the opportunity to codify, > commodify, and control access for tomorrow. But access > doesn't "look and read" like printed paper at all - > just ask any forlorn investor. Access is useless > currency. > > Why is this important? Because Kindle is the kind of > technology that challenges media freedom and restricts > media pluralism. It exacerbates what historian William > Leach calls "the landscape of the temporary": a hyper > mobile and rootless society that prefers access to > ownership. Such a society is vulnerable to the dangers > of selective censorship and control. > > Digital rights management (DRM), which Kindle uses to > lock in its library, raises critical questions about > the nature of property and identity in digital culture. > Culture plays a large role - in some ways, larger than > government - in shaping who we are as individuals in a > society. The First Amendment protects our right to > participate in the production of that culture. The > widespread commodification of access is shaping nearly > every aspect of modern citizenship. There are benefits, > to be sure, but this transformation also poses a big- > time threat to free expression and assembly. > > When Facebook, for example, proposed revisions to its > terms of service last month - claiming ownership of > user profiles and personal data - the successful > backlash it spawned caused complex (even existential) > ideas about property, identity, and capitulation to > bubble up: Is my Facebook profile the essence of who I > am? If so, who owns me? > > The hallmark of a constitutionally governed society, > after all, is the acknowledgment that we are the > authors of our own experience. In an Internet age, this > is manifest not only in published works, but also an > ever-evolving host of user-generated content (Twitter, > Blogger, Facebook, YouTube, etc.). If service providers > lay claim to digital content now, how will it all end? > > Print may be dying, but the idea of print would be the > more critical demise: the idea that there needs to be a > record - an artifact of permanence, residence, and > posterity - that is independent of some well-appointed > thingamajig in order to be seen, touched, understood, > or wholly possessed. > > "You don't have to burn books to destroy a culture," > Ray Bradbury once said. "Just get people to stop > reading them." > > Access equals control. In this case, it is control over > what is read and what is not; what is referenced and > what is overlooked; what is retained and what is > deleted; what is and what seems to be. > > To kindle, we must remember, is to set fire to. The > combustible power of this device (and others like it) > lies in their quiet but constant claim to intangible, > algorithmic capital. What the Kindle should be igniting > is serious debate on the fundamental, inalienable right > to property in a digital age - and clarifying what's > yours, mine, and ours. > > It should strike a match against the winner-take-all > casino economies that this kind of technology > engenders; revitalize American libraries and other > social institutions in their quest to preserve the > doctrines of fair use and first sale (which allow for > free and lawful sharing); and finally, spark Americans > to consider the extent to which they are handing over > their baloney sandwich for a plastic spoon. > > Like a lot of people, I'm a sucker for a good book. But > not at the expense of freedom, or foreclosure of > thought. > > > Emily Walshe is a librarian and professor at Long > Island University in New York. > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mar.cra%40comc ast.net _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/craig.borne%40 dot.gov From kdbenterprises at yahoo.com Tue Mar 31 21:02:12 2009 From: kdbenterprises at yahoo.com (kdb) Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2009 14:02:12 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [blindlaw] Ideas please- to show support Message-ID: <786010.96569.qm@web57302.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Please list any ideas those of you in support of the protest may have so that WE, who are unable to attend this effort as well as future efforts to fight for our rights, can access and use to lend our support. Thanks kdbenterprises at yahoo.com Retinopathy Blindness Tech Support Consultant From ms at browngold.com Tue Mar 31 21:50:25 2009 From: ms at browngold.com (Mehgan Sidhu) Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2009 17:50:25 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Ideas please- to show support In-Reply-To: <786010.96569.qm@web57302.mail.re1.yahoo.com> References: <786010.96569.qm@web57302.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: The Coalition is adding a "Take Action" section to the ReadingRights.org website that suggests several ways you can show support regardless of where you live. Those steps include: (1) Writing letters to the members of the Board of the Authors Guild and major publishers (contact information will be posted); (2) Sending statements to us about what text-to-speech and equal access to books means to you that we can post on the website and use in the campaign; (3) Uploading videos to YouTube that show how and why you use text-to-speech to read (and letting us know about your video so we can link to it from the website); (4) Encouraging friends and family members, colleagues, and everyone you know to get involved by coming to the protests, writing letters to authors, and / or sending us statements; We need everyone's help - regardless of whether you can make it to the protest - to ensure that the right to equal access to books does not slip out of reach at the foolhardy insistence of the Authors Guild. Mehgan Sidhu Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP 120 East Baltimore Street, Suite 1700 Baltimore, Maryland 21202 410-962-1030 x1324 410-385-0869 (fax) ms at browngold.com www.browngold.com Confidentiality Notice This e-mail may contain confidential information that may also be legally privileged and that is intended only for the use of the addressee(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient or an authorized agent of the recipient, please be advised that any dissemination or copying of this e-mail, or taking of any action in reliance on the information contained herein, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify me immediately by use of the reply button, and then delete the e-mail from your system. Thank you! -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of kdb Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2009 5:02 PM To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org Subject: [blindlaw] Ideas please- to show support Please list any ideas those of you in support of the protest may have so that WE, who are unable to attend this effort as well as future efforts to fight for our rights, can access and use to lend our support. Thanks kdbenterprises at yahoo.com Retinopathy Blindness Tech Support Consultant _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ms%40browngold.com From cdanielsen8 at aol.com Tue Mar 31 21:58:40 2009 From: cdanielsen8 at aol.com (Chris Danielsen) Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2009 17:58:40 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Kindle E-Reader: A Trojan Horse for Free Thought In-Reply-To: <61017FCC3706464B8ACB770A8038174E371C45@OSTMAIL03VS3.ad.dot.gov> References: <1146423434.1444691238519116668.JavaMail.root@sz0094a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> <61017FCC3706464B8ACB770A8038174E371C45@OSTMAIL03VS3.ad.dot.gov> Message-ID: <5E3AA80EBBD94D86A8F493533B534922@Scorpio13> I read another blog post from writer Corry Doctorow today indicating this same problem: we do not own what we think we own. Doctorow in effect asked his readers to put themselves in the position of the purchaser of a Kindle 2. When the purchaser bought the device, it was advertised as having the ability to read e-books aloud. But when Amazon makes the technical changes that allow authors and publishers to disable their books, the Kindle 2 will not work as advertised at least some of the time. Amazon will probably coerce the purchaser into accepting this change by requiring that he or she download the firmware making this modification in order to be permitted to purchase more e-books. Nowadays the devices we purchase can turn on us, without warning and with no input from us, simply because the device manufacturer, under pressure from some faction or other, makes a firmware modification that causes an advertised feature to disappear or become severely restricted. Authors, Doctorow suggested, should be the last people to make themselves party to such a reading device--a device that controls how the reader can use content at the whim of third parties. I'll forward the original post to this list if I can find it, since Doctorow expressed the problem better than me and also made some very coherent arguments about why the Authors Guild is wrong about text-to-speech. Chris -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of craig.borne at dot.gov Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2009 2:10 PM To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Kindle E-Reader: A Trojan Horse for Free Thought Hi Craig, One major difference I see is that a library book is never owned by the patron. It is merely borrowed. On the other hand, the patron who purchases the electronic book on the Kindle is purchasing the same privileages as one who purchases a hard copy of the book, yet that purchase, though promising ownership of the book, is severely limited as to the portability of that book, which is not the case with a hard bound book. My impression of the article's focus was that we are indeed heading into a great technological age, but we also seem to be giving up certain privileages along the way. ITunes is another great example: I can purchase an entire albumn of music, but I am limited in how I want to listen to that music. I am also limited in allowing my neighbor to borrow the albumn to decide whether or not he is interested in purchasing it for himself (I am not suggesting any copying of the albumn in this example). Craig Craig Borne NHTSA/DOT (202) 493-0627 craig.borne at dot.gov -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Craig R. Anderson Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2009 1:05 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Kindle E-Reader: A Trojan Horse for Free Thought Dave, Heady thoughts indeed. But isn't Ms. Walsh a little too alarmist? How, after all, is a digitalized book on a Kindle Reader significantly different in this respect from a borrowed library book? Thanks in any event for posting the essay. Regards. Craig ----- David B Andrews wrote: > With all the discussion about the Kindle, and what it permits, and > doesn't permit, I thought this might be of interest to some. > > David Andrews > > > Kindle E-Reader: A Trojan Horse for Free Thought > > By Emily Walshe > The Christian Science Monitor > from the March 18, 2009 edition > <http://www.csmonitor.com/200 9/0318/p09s01-coop.html> > > Brookville, N.Y. - All you really need to know about > the dangers of digital commodification you learned in > kindergarten. > > Think back. Remember swapping your baloney sandwich for > Jell-o pudding? Now, imagine handing over your sandwich > and getting just a spoon. > > That's one trade you'd never make again. > > Yet that's just what millions of Americans are doing > every day when they read "books" on Kindle, Amazon's e- > reading device. In our rush to adopt new technologies, > we have too readily surrendered ownership in favor of > its twisted sister, access. > > Web 2.0 and its culture of collaboration supposedly > unleashed a sharing society. But we can share only what > we own. And as more and more content gets digitized, > commercialized, and monopolized, our cultural integrity > is threatened. The free and balanced flow of > information that gives shape to democratic society is > jeopardized. > > For now, though, Kindle is on fire in the marketplace. > Who could resist reading "what you want, when you want > it?" Access to more than 240,000 books is just seconds > away. And its "revolutionary electronic-paper display > ... looks and reads like real paper." > > But it comes with restrictions: You can't resell or > share your books - because you don't own them. You can > download only from Amazon's store, making it difficult > to read anything that is not routed through Amazon > first. You're not buying a book; you're buying access > to a book. No, it's not like borrowing a book from a > library, because there is no public investment. It's > like taking an interest-only mortgage out on > intellectual property. > > If our flailing economy is to teach us anything, it > might be that an on-demand world of universal access > (with words like lease, licensure, and liquidity) gets > us into trouble. Amazon and other e-media aggregators > know that digital text is the irrational exuberance of > the day, and so are seizing the opportunity to codify, > commodify, and control access for tomorrow. But access > doesn't "look and read" like printed paper at all - > just ask any forlorn investor. Access is useless > currency. > > Why is this important? Because Kindle is the kind of > technology that challenges media freedom and restricts > media pluralism. It exacerbates what historian William > Leach calls "the landscape of the temporary": a hyper > mobile and rootless society that prefers access to > ownership. Such a society is vulnerable to the dangers > of selective censorship and control. > > Digital rights management (DRM), which Kindle uses to > lock in its library, raises critical questions about > the nature of property and identity in digital culture. > Culture plays a large role - in some ways, larger than > government - in shaping who we are as individuals in a > society. The First Amendment protects our right to > participate in the production of that culture. The > widespread commodification of access is shaping nearly > every aspect of modern citizenship. There are benefits, > to be sure, but this transformation also poses a big- > time threat to free expression and assembly. > > When Facebook, for example, proposed revisions to its > terms of service last month - claiming ownership of > user profiles and personal data - the successful > backlash it spawned caused complex (even existential) > ideas about property, identity, and capitulation to > bubble up: Is my Facebook profile the essence of who I > am? If so, who owns me? > > The hallmark of a constitutionally governed society, > after all, is the acknowledgment that we are the > authors of our own experience. In an Internet age, this > is manifest not only in published works, but also an > ever-evolving host of user-generated content (Twitter, > Blogger, Facebook, YouTube, etc.). If service providers > lay claim to digital content now, how will it all end? > > Print may be dying, but the idea of print would be the > more critical demise: the idea that there needs to be a > record - an artifact of permanence, residence, and > posterity - that is independent of some well-appointed > thingamajig in order to be seen, touched, understood, > or wholly possessed. > > "You don't have to burn books to destroy a culture," > Ray Bradbury once said. "Just get people to stop > reading them." > > Access equals control. In this case, it is control over > what is read and what is not; what is referenced and > what is overlooked; what is retained and what is > deleted; what is and what seems to be. > > To kindle, we must remember, is to set fire to. The > combustible power of this device (and others like it) > lies in their quiet but constant claim to intangible, > algorithmic capital. What the Kindle should be igniting > is serious debate on the fundamental, inalienable right > to property in a digital age - and clarifying what's > yours, mine, and ours. > > It should strike a match against the winner-take-all > casino economies that this kind of technology > engenders; revitalize American libraries and other > social institutions in their quest to preserve the > doctrines of fair use and first sale (which allow for > free and lawful sharing); and finally, spark Americans > to consider the extent to which they are handing over > their baloney sandwich for a plastic spoon. > > Like a lot of people, I'm a sucker for a good book. But > not at the expense of freedom, or foreclosure of > thought. > > > Emily Walshe is a librarian and professor at Long > Island University in New York. > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mar.cra%40comc ast.net _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/craig.borne%40 dot.gov _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3979 (20090331) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3979 (20090331) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From cdanielsen8 at aol.com Tue Mar 31 22:08:55 2009 From: cdanielsen8 at aol.com (Chris Danielsen) Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2009 18:08:55 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Fw: Reading Rights Coalition UrgesAuthorsto AllowEveryone Access to E-books In-Reply-To: References: <7556b95a0903301147s5ef9d3b9ubf43957bd3e1787d@mail.gmail.com><682E6BAAC17F4FE29F65138991E41E72@Scorpio13><20090331115645.GH30293@yumi.bluecherry.net> Message-ID: <36D42C71D635459FAE59AF91ED334F57@Scorpio13> Jack, Both are problems. First, one simply shouldn't have to register to read a book that one has paid for. Nobody else has to. Blind people do have to register for library services and special distributors like Bookshare, but even our sighted friends have to get library cards. But when they go to the bookstore, all they have to do is pay for their book; it should be the same for us. The second issue, having to identify oneself as having a disability, is also nontrivial for some people. For one thing, not all reading disabilities are linked to an organic cause, putting the applicant in the position of having to "prove" the disability. For another, there are still places in this world where identifying oneself as having a disability can cause one to be instantly ostracized, possibly even institutionalized. Chris -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jack Chen Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2009 8:35 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Fw: Reading Rights Coalition UrgesAuthorsto AllowEveryone Access to E-books How would the problem be stated best? Is it an issue with having to register at all or is it a problem with the perception that such a registration list would label individuals as disabled? My apologies if my basic question offends anyone -- I'm just trying to understand the problem better. jack ----- Original Message ----- From: "T. Joseph Carter" To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2009 7:56 AM Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Fw: Reading Rights Coalition Urges Authorsto AllowEveryone Access to E-books >I think it's time we educate them. How do I wish I were in the area--I'd >LOVE to be there. > > Joseph > > On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 09:12:57PM -0400, Chris Danielsen wrote: >>The NFB has communicated directly with the Authors Guild. They have told >>us >>that they are willing for the TTS to be turned on for the disabled and no >>one else if there is a national registry of those with print disabilities. >>When we told them that this is unacceptable, they suggested that those who >>want to have books read aloud should pay a surcharge. >> >>Chris > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jackchenonline%40h otmail.com > _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3979 (20090331) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3979 (20090331) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From cdanielsen8 at aol.com Tue Mar 31 22:17:13 2009 From: cdanielsen8 at aol.com (Chris Danielsen) Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2009 18:17:13 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Fw: Reading Rights Coalition Urges AuthorstoAllowEveryone Access to E-books In-Reply-To: References: <3632128BE00345E7A3A982C3407FA5DC@Scorpio13> Message-ID: <976DD878819F4BADA11AC21CE39B428D@Scorpio13> Joe, Suggestions for other actions will soon be posted on the Web site www.readingrights.org. Chris -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Joe Orozco Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 10:27 PM To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Fw: Reading Rights Coalition Urges AuthorstoAllowEveryone Access to E-books Is there something those of us who cannot go to New York do to show support? Joe Orozco "A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the crowd."--Max Lucado -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Chris Danielsen Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 9:17 PM To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Fw: Reading Rights Coalition Urges Authors toAllowEveryone Access to E-books With Bookshare, you're not paying for the books you download. By contrast, if I buy a book like everyone else, it's nobody's business how I read it or why I'm reading it that way. Chris -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of E.J. Zufelt Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 6:15 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Fw: Reading Rights Coalition Urges Authors to AllowEveryone Access to E-books Is it immoral for Bookshare to require registration aswell? Everett On 30-Mar-09, at 2:21 PM, Michael Fry wrote: > It is awesome that so many organizations are coalescing around such a > noble and worthy cause. > > The Guilds position is immoral since it is infringes on human rights > and dignity because it exploits, for profit, a vulnerable minority of > the population. Requiring the disabled to 'register' - like some kind > of inferior animal - in order to use new, free, and innovative > text-to-speech technology places an unnecessary obstacle in path of > people with disablities. This obstacle is desgined solely to exploit > money from people without the time or inclination or, who are too > embarrassed to register, as a text disabled individuals. They are > attempting to bully extra profits out of people with disabilities. > The > Guild, comprised of enlightened and educated individuals, should be > ashamed since there is no explanation other than immoral greed for > their position. > > > On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 9:16 AM, Scott C. LaBarre > wrote: > >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Freeh, Jessica >> To: Alpidio Rolon ; Amy Buresh ; Anil Lewis ; Art Schreiber ; Beth >> Rival ; Bob Kresmer ; Carl Jacobsen ; Cathy Jackson ; Charlene Smyth >> ; Christine G. >> Hall ; Daniel Burke ; David Ticchi ; Don Galloway ; Donna Wood ; >> Elsie Lamp ; Frank Lee ; Franklin Shiner ; Fred Schroeder ; Fred >> Wurtzel ; Gary Ray ; Gary Wunder ; J.W. Smith ; James Antonacci ; >> James Broadnax ; Jennelle Bichler ; Jennifer Dunnam ; Jerree Harris ; >> Joe Ruffalo ; John Batron ; John Fritz ; Joyce Scanlan ; Kathy Davis >> ; Ken Rollman ; Kevan Worley ; Marie Johnson ; Mary Willows ; Melissa >> Riccobono ; Michael Barber ; Michael Freeman ; Nani Fife ; Pam Allen >> ; Parnell Diggs ; Patti Chang ; Richard Bennett ; Richard Gaffney ; >> Ron Brown ; Ron Gardner ; Sam Gleese ; Scott LaBarre ; Selena >> Sundling-Crawford ; Steven Priddle ; Terri Rupp ; Tommy Craig >> Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 7:09 AM >> Subject: Reading Rights Coalition Urges Authors to Allow Everyone >> Access to E-books >> >> >> FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE >> >> >> CONTACT: >> >> Chris Danielsen >> >> Director of Public Relations >> >> National Federation of the Blind >> >> (410) 659-9314, ext. 2330 >> >> (410) 262-1281 (Cell) >> cdanielsen at nfb.org >> >> >> >> Reading Rights Coalition Urges Authors to Allow Everyone Access to >> E-books >> >> >> >> Informational Protest to be Held at Authors Guild Headquarters >> >> >> >> New York City (March 30, 2009): The Reading Rights Coalition, which >> represents people who cannot read print, will protest the threatened >> removal of the text-to-speech function from e-books for the Amazon >> Kindle 2 outside the Authors Guild headquarters in New York City at >> 31 East 32nd Street on April 7, 2009, from noon to 2:00 p.m. The >> coalition includes the blind, people with dyslexia, people with >> learning or processing issues, seniors losing vision, people with >> spinal cord injuries, people recovering from strokes, and many others >> for whom the addition of text-to-speech on the Kindle 2 promised for >> the first time easy, mainstream access to over 245,000 books. >> >> >> >> When Amazon released the Kindle 2 electronic book reader on February >> 9, 2009, the company announced that the device would be able to read >> e- books aloud using text-to-speech technology. Under pressure from >> the Authors Guild, Amazon has announced that it will give authors and >> publishers the ability to disable the text-to-speech function on any >> or all of their e-books available for the Kindle 2. >> >> >> >> Dr. Marc Maurer, President of the National Federation of the Blind, >> said: >> "The blind and print-disabled have for years utilized text-to-speech >> technology to read and access information. As technology advances >> and more books move from hard-copy print to electronic formats, >> people with print disabilities have for the first time in history the >> opportunity to enjoy >> access to books on an equal basis with those who can read print. >> Authors >> and publishers who elect to disable text-to-speech for their e- books >> on the Kindle 2 prevent people who are blind or have >> >> other print disabilities from reading these e-books. This is blatant >> discrimination and we will not tolerate it." >> >> >> >> Mike Shuttic, president of the Association on Higher Education and >> Disability (AHEAD), said: "AHEAD envisions educational and societal >> environments that value disability and embody equality of >> opportunity. This vision of AHEAD is directly aligned with the >> efforts of this coalition. >> Although much rhetoric is made about potential obstacles and problems >> that >> exist, the basic goal is clear and simple--access for everyone. >> And why >> create something that prevents it?" >> >> >> >> Mitch Pomerantz, president of the American Council of the Blind, >> said: >> "Removing the text-to-speech features closes the door on an >> innovative technological solution that would make regular print books >> available to tens of thousands of individuals who are blind or >> visually impaired." >> >> >> >> Andrew Imparato, President and Chief Executive Officer for the >> American Association of People with Disabilities (AAPD), said: "It is >> outrageous when a technology device shuts out people with all kinds >> of disabilities. AAPD works to remove barriers to accessibility and >> usability in technology, and we don't expect to see people with >> disabilities singled out by having to pay more for access. New >> technologies, such as electronic books, should be available to >> everyone regardless of disability." >> >> Paul Schroeder, vice president of programs and policy for the >> American Foundation for the Blind, said: "Those of us with print >> disabilities have long dreamed of a world in which books and media >> are available to us at the same time as everyone else. The Kindle 2 >> offers that possibility for the first time. We hope publishers and >> authors come to see that text- to-speech is simply an alternative >> means of access to print." >> >> Dr. Peter Blanck, chairman and university professor at Burton Blatt >> Institute at Syracuse University, said: "As electronic books become >> the norm, denying universal access will result in more and more >> people with disabilities being left out of education, employment, and >> the societal conversation. We will all suffer from the absence of >> their participation and contribution to the debates that occupy us as >> a society." >> >> >> >> George Kerscher of the Digital Accessible Information System (DAISY) >> Consortium, said: "The DAISY Consortium envisions a world where >> people with print disabilities have equal access to information and >> knowledge, without delay or additional expense. Authors and >> publishers surely must share this vision. Now that the issue of >> human rights has been explained, and the opportunity for larger sales >> are known, I urge the Authors Guild to reverse their position on >> text-to-speech and join us in actively encouraging all publishers and >> reading technology developers to open the world of reading to >> everybody. Authors, join us on the picket line." >> >> >> >> >> >> Steve Jacobs, president of IDEAL Group Inc., said, "Not only is >> text-to-speech important to people who are blind, it is critical in >> providing quality educations to millions of young people who rely on >> text-to-speech to learn effectively. This includes students with >> autism, learning disabilities, mobility disabilities, and cognitive >> disabilities that impact their ability to acquire information with >> their eyes only. I remain hopeful that the talented members of the >> Authors Guild come to understand the potential negative impact of >> disabling the text-to- speech function on their e-books and >> reconsider their position." >> >> >> >> Cynthia D. Waddell, executive director of the International Center >> for Disability Resources on the Internet (ICDRI), said: "The mission >> of ICDRI supports the removal of barriers in electronic and >> information technology and the promotion of equal access. ICDRI >> welcomes the text-to-speech functionality being offered by the Kindle >> 2 since it increases mainstream access to books for the first time in >> history. We question why the Authors Guild demands that it be turned >> it off since many more books would be sold if text-to-speech was >> turned back on. Not only >> >> does this feature benefit persons with disabilities, but it also >> helps persons for whom English is not their native language. In an >> increasingly mobile society, flexibility in access to content >> improves the quality of life for everyone." >> >> >> >> James Love, director of Knowledge Ecology International, said: >> "Knowing >> full well that not everyone can see, the Authors Guild wants the >> right to be seen, but not heard. By bullying Amazon to change the >> technology of Kindle 2, the Authors Guild will either deny access to >> people who are disabled, or make them pay more. By attacking >> disabled persons in this way, the Authors Guild is attacking everyone >> who would otherwise benefit from the contributions this community has >> the potential to offer." >> >> >> >> James H. Wendorf, executive director for the National Center for >> Learning Disabilities, said: "Access to the written word is the >> cornerstone of education and democracy. New technologies must serve >> individuals with disabilities, not impede them. Our homes, schools >> and ultimately our economy rely on support for the future, not >> discriminating practices and beliefs from the past." >> >> While the Kindle 2 is not currently accessible to blind users, Amazon >> recently announced on its Kindle 2 blog that it is currently at work >> on making the device's navigational features accessible to the blind. >> >> >> >> The coalition includes: American Association of People with >> Disabilities, >> American Council of the Blind, American Foundation for the Blind, >> Association on Higher Education and Disability, Bazelon Center for >> Mental >> Health Law, Burton Blatt Institute, Digital Accessible Information >> System >> (DAISY) Consortium, Disability Rights Education and Defense Fund >> (DREDF), >> IDEAL Group, Inc., International Center for Disability Resources on >> the >> Internet, International Dyslexia Association, International Dyslexia >> Association--New York Branch, Knowledge Ecology International, >> Learning >> Disabilities Association of America, National Center for Learning >> Disabilities, National Disability Rights Network, National >> Federation of the >> Blind, NISH, and the National Spinal Cord Injury Association. In >> addition >> to the April 7 New York City protest, the coalition will >> participate in the >> Los Angeles Times Festival of Books on April 25-26. >> >> >> >> ### >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mikefr y79%40gmail. com >> > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/everet t%40zufelt.c a _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanie lsen8%40aol. com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3976 (20090330) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3976 (20090330) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jsoroz co%40gmail.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3973 (20090329) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3973 (20090329) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3979 (20090331) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3979 (20090331) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From carter.tjoseph at gmail.com Tue Mar 31 22:22:19 2009 From: carter.tjoseph at gmail.com (T. Joseph Carter) Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2009 15:22:19 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Fw: Reading Rights Coalition Urges Authorsto AllowEveryone Access to E-books In-Reply-To: References: <20090331115645.GH30293@yumi.bluecherry.net> Message-ID: <20090331222219.GD37084@yumi.bluecherry.net> Text-to-speech is clumsy at best, even when access technology is present, unless you are dealing with content specifically designed for text-to-speech. The complexity of the screen reader is not so much in getting it to tell you what text is drawn on the screen, but rather to intelligently determine what text to say, when to say it, and how. Is "sep" to indicate September or separator, or is it just a nonsense word or a typo? This is the easiest sort of problem a screen reader has to figure out. What you have in the case of the Kindle is a device whose firmware could--and would, with some coaxing from organizations like the NFB--be made to be useful by blind and sighted people alike. It is universal design, available to all. Using a talking Kindle, a blind person is, for all intents and purposes, the same as a sighted person. One who is dyslexic has the same access to the printed word as any bookworm. The device is a commodity product, the content is ready to be read by the eye or the TTS engine, and you can just pick it up and go. When I have the means to participate in society in the same way as my sighted peers by reading the same books, using the same methods, available to me at the same time and for the same price, I know it is respectable to be blind. I know this because to be blind is then clearly no different than to be sighted. That changes if I have to beg Amazon to consider me crippled enough to need to be allowed to have my books read to me, as a special concession to my pitiful state of just not having enough vision to read even the largest font size for a long period of time. Please Amazon, approve my request? Take pity on me, please? It truly is a matter of dignity. Is the accommodation obvious and available to anyone who needs it without justification necessary? Or is it something unreasonable that is provided only to those who truly need it, if they can prove their need outweighs the cost of allowing them special treatment? The Author's Guild seems to believe the latter. Joseph On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 08:34:47AM -0400, Jack Chen wrote: > How would the problem be stated best? Is it an issue with having to > register at all or is it a problem with the perception that such a > registration list would label individuals as disabled? My apologies if > my basic question offends anyone -- I'm just trying to understand the > problem better. > > jack > ----- Original Message ----- From: "T. Joseph Carter" > > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2009 7:56 AM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Fw: Reading Rights Coalition Urges Authorsto > AllowEveryone Access to E-books > > >> I think it's time we educate them. How do I wish I were in the >> area--I'd LOVE to be there. >> >> Joseph >> >> On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 09:12:57PM -0400, Chris Danielsen wrote: >>> The NFB has communicated directly with the Authors Guild. They have >>> told us >>> that they are willing for the TTS to be turned on for the disabled and no >>> one else if there is a national registry of those with print disabilities. >>> When we told them that this is unacceptable, they suggested that those who >>> want to have books read aloud should pay a surcharge. >>> >>> Chris >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jackchenonline%40hotmail.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/carter.tjoseph%40gmail.com From roddj12 at hotmail.com Tue Mar 31 22:36:42 2009 From: roddj12 at hotmail.com (Rod Alcidonis) Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2009 18:36:42 -0400 Subject: [blindlaw] Fw: Reading Rights Coalition Urges Authors toAllow Everyone Access to E-books In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Marc: Actually, I first argue that there is not a violation by listening to books on the Kindle, so the entity here has no rights to claim. That's my conclusion. I think the issue in this situation is that this entity is trying to assert a right but they don't know what that right is, so they call it copyright violation. Not many judges would buy this nonsense when a purchaser cannot even share the books on this device. In fact, this argument would not go beyond the courthouse. Think about it: it is impossible to violate the copyright of the entity even if one would want to. This machine is protected with security features. This entity would have had to prove that somehow, that by listening to the books, this in a way interferes with the features of the Kindle and this violates their rights because it would allow a blind person to start sharing the books. I am confident that this argument would suffer the same defects that the treasury department's argument suffered in the currency case, when they argued that because blind people had access to credit cards, they did not also require access to bills. You saw what happened there. Such an outcome, if it were adopted, would lead to situations where someone borrows a book, reads it, and give it back to the owner to also constitute copyright violations. This would be absurd. The current situation certainly would be proper use of the device. Secondly, I argued that this is different from bookshare because unlike the situation here, bookshare does not have any rights to the books; they are just distributing them. Keep in mind that this is an exception to the law; if it did not exist, bookshare's actions would be an obvious violation. Furthermore, Bookshare can violate copyright laws; the entity here cannot. Bookshare cannot give permission of any sorts to anyone to use these books; the entity here could and it has given permission to Amazon to use their property by putting it on the Kindle. Moreover, when a user downloads a book from Bookshare, this user can share it and violate copyrights; however, when a user purchases the Kindle, he/she cannot remove the books, transfers them, and shares them with his/her friends. These are two different situations, and as such, they both deserve independent legal analyses. Rod Alcidonis  Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009. Roger Williams University School of Law 10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 Bristol, RI 02809 Home: (401) 824-8685 Cell: (718) 704-4651  E-mail: roddj12 at hotmail.com -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of mworkman at ualberta.ca Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2009 12:53 PM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Fw: Reading Rights Coalition Urges Authors toAllow Everyone Access to E-books Rod, it looks to me like you are begging the question. You say the two cases are completely different because one involves distributing copyrighted material under the exception for persons with disabilities, and the other case does not involve a violation of copyright, but the latter point is exactly what is up for debate. The author's guild is claiming that the TTS on the Kindel is, in fact, a violation of copyright, which they are prepared to overlook as an exception for people with print disabilities, provided that people register, exactly as they must in the case of Bookshare. Personally, I don't think that TTS should be construed as a violation of copyright, but you can't say two cases are different because of X, and then simply assert X, as you have done. Marc -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]On Behalf Of Rod Alcidonis Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2009 8:13 AM To: 'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List' Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Fw: Reading Rights Coalition Urges Authors toAllow Everyone Access to E-books Folks: this situation and that of bookshare is two different, and completely separate legal analyses. Let's not continue to mix the two. It is like mixing apples and oranges just because they are both known as fruits. Unlike as some have suggested, bookshare is required to verify your disability because it is a not-for-profit entity engaging in the distribution of copyrighted books to blind individuals. Distribution of copyrighted books would constitute a violation had bookshare not adhear to the requirement that its members are blind. It has nothing to do with you getting books nearly for free. Bookshare holds no right to these materials. Think of bookshare and RFBD as an exception to the general rule. This situation, however, involves not a copyright violation of any kind. No one is sharing copyrighted information. The information on this device is already being released with the entity's permission and attached conditions; rather, what's at issue here is that the entity is fearful that by allowing people to listen to books this way, in effect would interfere with some rights, which we are debating is unclear as to what that right is. By asking for people to registrer, the entity is seeking to place itself in the shoes of Bookshare and alike, but remember that it is a commercial entity. Unlike bookshare, this entity holds the copyrighted content on these devices. Rod Alcidonis  Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009. Roger Williams University School of Law 10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 Bristol, RI 02809 Home: (401) 824-8685 Cell: (718) 704-4651  E-mail: roddj12 at hotmail.com -----Original Message----- From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Shane D Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2009 8:35 AM To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Fw: Reading Rights Coalition Urges Authors to Allow Everyone Access to E-books Re: Bookshare, we are being given nearly free access to copyrighted books. The $50/year goes to paying Bookshare's overhead. As such, Bookshare is required by law to varify our disabilities. However, Bookshare does not share with the publisher our disability information. I think the best analogy to this situation would be the Authors Guild taking a cut of Jaws proffit because it enables us to read books with audio. Bookshare is just a source for getting books. On 3/30/09, E.J. Zufelt wrote: > Good evening, > > One part of the argument was that: "The Guilds position is immoral > since it is infringes on human rights and dignity because it exploits, > for profit, a vulnerable minority >> >>> of the population. Requiring the disabled to 'register' - like >>> some kind >>> of inferior animal - in order to use new, free, and innovative text- >>> to-speech technology...". > > Understandably Bookshare.org is not for profit, however, the strongest > words in the above citation are related to having to "...register' - > like some kind of inferior animal...". If the registration > requirement for one service is acceptable how can the registration > requirement for a similar, but recognizably different, service been > seen as treating people like "inferior animals"? > > I agree that a method needs to be found to accommodate the needs of > all involved and to respect all current laws and the right of access > to information for the text-impaired population. However, the > "inferior animals" argument does not seem to have much foundation in > the facts. Perhaps the best solution is to require digital media > distributors to leave their publications unlocked for all readers, to > ensure the most open access to information for the text-impaired, > "inferior animals" does not seem to add any weight to the legal > argument on either side of this issue. > > Thanks, > Everett > > > On 30-Mar-09, at 9:11 PM, Rod Alcidonis wrote: > >> I can't tell you how much I hate it when a legal issue is seriously >> being >> debated on this list and someone comes along with a statement that >> is at >> best, uninformed. The current issue is not even close to a bookshare >> situation. I am afraid that this listserv might soon loses its >> character >> as a legal forum for blind legal professionals. Sad. >> >> Rod Alcidonis >> Juris Doctor Candidate, 2009. >> Roger Williams University School of Law >> 10 Metacom Ave., Box: 9003 >> Bristol, RI 02809 >> Home: (401) 824-8685 >> Cell: (718) 704-4651 >> E-mail: roddj12 at hotmail.com >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw- >> bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf Of E.J. Zufelt >> Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 6:15 PM >> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List >> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Fw: Reading Rights Coalition Urges Authors >> to Allow >> Everyone Access to E-books >> >> Is it immoral for Bookshare to require registration aswell? >> >> Everett >> >> >> On 30-Mar-09, at 2:21 PM, Michael Fry wrote: >> >>> It is awesome that so many organizations are coalescing around such >>> a noble >>> and worthy cause. >>> >>> The Guilds position is immoral since it is infringes on human rights >>> and dignity because it exploits, for profit, a vulnerable minority >>> of the >>> population. Requiring the disabled to 'register' - like some kind >>> of inferior animal - in order to use new, free, and >>> innovative text-to-speech technology places an unnecessary obstacle >>> in path >>> of people with disablities. This obstacle is desgined solely to >>> exploit >>> money from people without the time or inclination or, who are too >>> embarrassed to register, as a text disabled individuals. They are >>> attempting to bully extra profits out of people with disabilities. >>> The >>> Guild, comprised of enlightened and educated individuals, should be >>> ashamed >>> since there is no explanation other than immoral greed for their >>> position. >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 9:16 AM, Scott C. LaBarre >>> wrote: >>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: Freeh, Jessica >>>> To: Alpidio Rolon ; Amy Buresh ; Anil Lewis ; Art Schreiber ; Beth >>>> Rival ; >>>> Bob Kresmer ; Carl Jacobsen ; Cathy Jackson ; Charlene Smyth ; >>>> Christine G. >>>> Hall ; Daniel Burke ; David Ticchi ; Don Galloway ; Donna Wood ; >>>> Elsie Lamp >>>> ; Frank Lee ; Franklin Shiner ; Fred Schroeder ; Fred Wurtzel ; >>>> Gary Ray ; >>>> Gary Wunder ; J.W. Smith ; James Antonacci ; James Broadnax ; >>>> Jennelle >>>> Bichler ; Jennifer Dunnam ; Jerree Harris ; Joe Ruffalo ; John >>>> Batron ; John >>>> Fritz ; Joyce Scanlan ; Kathy Davis ; Ken Rollman ; Kevan Worley ; >>>> Marie >>>> Johnson ; Mary Willows ; Melissa Riccobono ; Michael Barber ; >>>> Michael >>>> Freeman ; Nani Fife ; Pam Allen ; Parnell Diggs ; Patti Chang ; >>>> Richard >>>> Bennett ; Richard Gaffney ; Ron Brown ; Ron Gardner ; Sam Gleese ; >>>> Scott >>>> LaBarre ; Selena Sundling-Crawford ; Steven Priddle ; Terri Rupp ; >>>> Tommy >>>> Craig >>>> Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 7:09 AM >>>> Subject: Reading Rights Coalition Urges Authors to Allow Everyone >>>> Access to >>>> E-books >>>> >>>> >>>> FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE >>>> >>>> >>>> CONTACT: >>>> >>>> Chris Danielsen >>>> >>>> Director of Public Relations >>>> >>>> National Federation of the Blind >>>> >>>> (410) 659-9314, ext. 2330 >>>> >>>> (410) 262-1281 (Cell) >>>> cdanielsen at nfb.org >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Reading Rights Coalition Urges Authors to Allow >>>> Everyone Access to E-books >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Informational Protest to be Held at Authors Guild Headquarters >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> New York City (March 30, 2009): The Reading Rights Coalition, which >>>> represents people who cannot read print, will protest the >>>> threatened removal >>>> of the text-to-speech function from e-books for the Amazon Kindle 2 >>>> outside >>>> the Authors Guild headquarters in New York City at 31 East 32nd >>>> Street on >>>> April 7, 2009, from noon to 2:00 p.m. The coalition includes the >>>> blind, >>>> people with dyslexia, people with learning or processing issues, >>>> seniors >>>> losing vision, people with spinal cord injuries, people recovering >>>> from >>>> strokes, and many others for whom the addition of text-to-speech on >>>> the >>>> Kindle 2 promised for the first time easy, mainstream access to >>>> over 245,000 >>>> books. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> When Amazon released the Kindle 2 electronic book reader on >>>> February 9, >>>> 2009, the company announced that the device would be able to read e- >>>> books >>>> aloud using text-to-speech technology. Under pressure from the >>>> Authors >>>> Guild, Amazon has announced that it will give authors and >>>> publishers the >>>> ability to disable the text-to-speech function on any or all of >>>> their >>>> e-books available for the Kindle 2. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Dr. Marc Maurer, President of the National Federation of the Blind, >>>> said: >>>> "The blind and print-disabled have for years utilized text-to-speech >>>> technology to read and access information. As technology advances >>>> and more >>>> books move from hard-copy print to electronic formats, people with >>>> print >>>> disabilities have for the first time in history the opportunity to >>>> enjoy >>>> access to books on an equal basis with those who can read print. >>>> Authors >>>> and publishers who elect to disable text-to-speech for their e- >>>> books on the >>>> Kindle 2 prevent people who are blind or have >>>> >>>> other print disabilities from reading these e-books. This is >>>> blatant >>>> discrimination and we will not tolerate it." >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Mike Shuttic, president of the Association on Higher Education and >>>> Disability (AHEAD), said: "AHEAD envisions educational and societal >>>> environments that value disability and embody equality of >>>> opportunity. This >>>> vision of AHEAD is directly aligned with the efforts of this >>>> coalition. >>>> Although much rhetoric is made about potential obstacles and >>>> problems that >>>> exist, the basic goal is clear and simple--access for everyone. >>>> And why >>>> create something that prevents it?" >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Mitch Pomerantz, president of the American Council of the Blind, >>>> said: >>>> "Removing the text-to-speech features closes the door on an >>>> innovative >>>> technological solution that would make regular print books >>>> available to tens >>>> of thousands of individuals who are blind or visually impaired." >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Andrew Imparato, President and Chief Executive Officer for the >>>> American >>>> Association of People with Disabilities (AAPD), said: "It is >>>> outrageous when >>>> a technology device shuts out people with all kinds of >>>> disabilities. AAPD >>>> works to remove barriers to accessibility and usability in >>>> technology, and >>>> we don't expect to see people with disabilities singled out by >>>> having to pay >>>> more for access. New technologies, such as electronic books, >>>> should be >>>> available to everyone regardless of disability." >>>> >>>> Paul Schroeder, vice president of programs and policy for the >>>> American >>>> Foundation for the Blind, said: "Those of us with print >>>> disabilities have >>>> long dreamed of a world in which books and media are available to >>>> us at the >>>> same time as everyone else. The Kindle 2 offers that possibility >>>> for the >>>> first time. We hope publishers and authors come to see that text- >>>> to-speech >>>> is simply an alternative means of access to print." >>>> >>>> Dr. Peter Blanck, chairman and university professor at Burton Blatt >>>> Institute at Syracuse University, said: "As electronic books become >>>> the >>>> norm, denying universal access will result in more and more people >>>> with >>>> disabilities being left out of education, employment, and the >>>> societal >>>> conversation. We will all suffer from the absence of their >>>> participation >>>> and contribution to the debates that occupy us as a society." >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> George Kerscher of the Digital Accessible Information System (DAISY) >>>> Consortium, said: "The DAISY Consortium envisions a world where >>>> people with >>>> print disabilities have equal access to information and knowledge, >>>> without >>>> delay or additional expense. Authors and publishers surely must >>>> share this >>>> vision. Now that the issue of human rights has been explained, and >>>> the >>>> opportunity for larger sales are known, I urge the Authors Guild to >>>> reverse >>>> their position on text-to-speech and join us in actively >>>> encouraging all >>>> publishers and reading technology developers to open the world of >>>> reading to >>>> everybody. Authors, join us on the picket line." >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Steve Jacobs, president of IDEAL Group Inc., said, "Not only is >>>> text-to-speech important to people who are blind, it is critical in >>>> providing quality educations to millions of young people who rely on >>>> text-to-speech to learn effectively. This includes students with >>>> autism, >>>> learning disabilities, mobility disabilities, and cognitive >>>> disabilities >>>> that impact their ability to acquire information with their eyes >>>> only. I >>>> remain hopeful that the talented members of the Authors Guild come >>>> to >>>> understand the potential negative impact of disabling the text-to- >>>> speech >>>> function on their e-books and reconsider their position." >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Cynthia D. Waddell, executive director of the International Center >>>> for >>>> Disability Resources on the Internet (ICDRI), said: "The mission >>>> of ICDRI >>>> supports the removal of barriers in electronic and information >>>> technology >>>> and the promotion of equal access. ICDRI welcomes the text-to- >>>> speech >>>> functionality being offered by the Kindle 2 since it increases >>>> mainstream >>>> access to books for the first time in history. We question why the >>>> Authors >>>> Guild demands that it be turned it off since many more books would >>>> be sold >>>> if text-to-speech was turned back on. Not only >>>> >>>> does this feature benefit persons with disabilities, but it also >>>> helps >>>> persons for whom English is not their native language. In an >>>> increasingly >>>> mobile society, flexibility in access to content improves the >>>> quality of >>>> life for everyone." >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> James Love, director of Knowledge Ecology International, said: >>>> "Knowing >>>> full well that not everyone can see, the Authors Guild wants the >>>> right to be >>>> seen, but not heard. By bullying Amazon to change the technology >>>> of Kindle >>>> 2, the Authors Guild will either deny access to people who are >>>> disabled, or >>>> make them pay more. By attacking disabled persons in this way, the >>>> Authors >>>> Guild is attacking everyone who would otherwise benefit from the >>>> contributions this community has the potential to offer." >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> James H. Wendorf, executive director for the National Center for >>>> Learning >>>> Disabilities, said: "Access to the written word is the cornerstone >>>> of >>>> education and democracy. New technologies must serve individuals >>>> with >>>> disabilities, not impede them. Our homes, schools and ultimately >>>> our >>>> economy rely on support for the future, not discriminating >>>> practices and >>>> beliefs from the past." >>>> >>>> While the Kindle 2 is not currently accessible to blind users, >>>> Amazon >>>> recently announced on its Kindle 2 blog that it is currently at >>>> work on >>>> making the device's navigational features accessible to the blind. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> The coalition includes: American Association of People with >>>> Disabilities, >>>> American Council of the Blind, American Foundation for the Blind, >>>> Association on Higher Education and Disability, Bazelon Center for >>>> Mental >>>> Health Law, Burton Blatt Institute, Digital Accessible Information >>>> System >>>> (DAISY) Consortium, Disability Rights Education and Defense Fund >>>> (DREDF), >>>> IDEAL Group, Inc., International Center for Disability Resources on >>>> the >>>> Internet, International Dyslexia Association, International Dyslexia >>>> Association--New York Branch, Knowledge Ecology International, >>>> Learning >>>> Disabilities Association of America, National Center for Learning >>>> Disabilities, National Disability Rights Network, National >>>> Federation of the >>>> Blind, NISH, and the National Spinal Cord Injury Association. In >>>> addition >>>> to the April 7 New York City protest, the coalition will >>>> participate in the >>>> Los Angeles Times Festival of Books on April 25-26. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ### >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> blindlaw mailing list >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> blindlaw: >>>> >>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mikefry79%40gmail >> >> . >> com >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> blindlaw mailing list >>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for blindlaw: >>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/everett%40zufelt.c >> a >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail >> >> . >> com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> blindlaw mailing list >> blindlaw at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for blindlaw: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/everett%40zufelt.c a > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/chatter8712%40gmai l.com > -- -Shane Website: http://www.blind-geek.com AIM: inhaddict MSN: shane at blind-geek.com Skype: chatter8712 Twitter: blind_geek _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail. com _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mworkman%40ualbert a.ca _______________________________________________ blindlaw mailing list blindlaw at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindlaw: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/roddj12%40hotmail. com From mikefry79 at gmail.com Tue Mar 31 23:56:28 2009 From: mikefry79 at gmail.com (Michael Fry) Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2009 16:56:28 -0700 Subject: [blindlaw] Fw: Reading Rights Coalition UrgesAuthorsto AllowEveryone Access to E-books In-Reply-To: <36D42C71D635459FAE59AF91ED334F57@Scorpio13> References: <7556b95a0903301147s5ef9d3b9ubf43957bd3e1787d@mail.gmail.com> <682E6BAAC17F4FE29F65138991E41E72@Scorpio13> <20090331115645.GH30293@yumi.bluecherry.net> <36D42C71D635459FAE59AF91ED334F57@Scorpio13> Message-ID: <8c58e54a0903311656k1a416d41r7a292d005210b2c@mail.gmail.com> Hear, hear!! Really well said Chris. On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 3:08 PM, Chris Danielsen wrote: > Jack, > > Both are problems. First, one simply shouldn't have to register to read a > book that one has paid for. Nobody else has to. Blind people do have to > register for library services and special distributors like Bookshare, but > even our sighted friends have to get library cards. But when they go to the > bookstore, all they have to do is pay for their book; it should be the same > for us. The second issue, having to identify oneself as having a > disability, > is also nontrivial for some people. For one thing, not all reading > disabilities are linked to an organic cause, putting the applicant in the > position of having to "prove" the disability. For another, there are still > places in this world where identifying oneself as having a disability can > cause one to be instantly ostracized, possibly even institutionalized. > > Chris > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of Jack Chen > Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2009 8:35 AM > To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Fw: Reading Rights Coalition UrgesAuthorsto > AllowEveryone Access to E-books > > How would the problem be stated best? Is it an issue with having to > register at all or is it a problem with the perception that such a > registration list would label individuals as disabled? My apologies if my > basic question offends anyone -- I'm just trying to understand the problem > better. > > jack > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "T. Joseph Carter" > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" > Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2009 7:56 AM > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Fw: Reading Rights Coalition Urges Authorsto > AllowEveryone Access to E-books > > > >I think it's time we educate them. How do I wish I were in the area--I'd > >LOVE to be there. > > > > Joseph > > > > On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 09:12:57PM -0400, Chris Danielsen wrote: > >>The NFB has communicated directly with the Authors Guild. They have told > >>us > >>that they are willing for the TTS to be turned on for the disabled and no > >>one else if there is a national registry of those with print > disabilities. > >>When we told them that this is unacceptable, they suggested that those > who > >>want to have books read aloud should pay a surcharge. > >> > >>Chris > > > > _______________________________________________ > > blindlaw mailing list > > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > blindlaw: > > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/jackchenonline%40h > otmail.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cdanielsen8%40aol. > com > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature > database 3979 (20090331) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature > database 3979 (20090331) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > blindlaw mailing list > blindlaw at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindlaw: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mikefry79%40gmail.com >