[blindlaw] nfb v. target

Sat Mar 14 21:59:04 UTC 2009

heh the skills of blindness;) i had a job interview to be a rehabilitation teacher for the blind on Thursdfday and all the interview questions were like "what is a goal a blind person might set for themselves" and "what are some things a blind person could use to aide them in their every day living" it was like really are you asking me, a blind person, these questions lol.

> From: bspiry at comcast.net
> To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 13:21:49 -0700
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target
> 
> I completely agree with Angie's perspective on this. The reality is that if
> a blind person is able to navigate the internet and get to the site of a
> retailer, that blind person likely already has a higher skill level with the
> computer, out of simple necessity, than the average sighted person who
> simply uses their PC to browse the web, do some shopping and send a few
> emails. We will never be free of the necessity to learn the skills of
> blindness in order to live "normal" lives, but by God we should not be
> required to developed specialized technical and functional skills in order
> to use simple services and enjoy privledges when those services and
> privledges can be made accessible with limited cost and effort. 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Angie Matney
> Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 12:15 PM
> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] nfb v. target
> 
> Joe asked:
> 
> >What troubles me is that my question of accessibility standards has not
> been
> >answered on the other case against the LSAC. The same question is
> >applicable here. What standard was used to conclude that the web site was
> >not accessible? I do not claim to be a genius at manipulating technology
> to
> >serve my needs, but I did not have to try hard at all to make Target give
> me
> >what I needed between 2005 and 2008. 
> 
> I can't compare the relative accessibility of the Target site to the LSAC
> site because I haven't attempted to shop at Target's site. But the LSAC site
> is inaccessible to every person who uses JAWS as their sole means of
> accessing the internet. 
> (At least, this was the case when I applied to law schools in the fall of
> 2005.) Perhaps I overestimate my own abilities, but I feel pretty confident
> in saying that I can get just about any marginally accessible site to do
> what I want. But I could not 
> apply to law school without the aid of multiple friends who served as
> readers. In fall, 2005, the application forms used by LSAC were not
> accessible with JAWS. I believe I was able to enter information into the
> "general" form, which then 
> populated each application form with my personal data. But the specific
> application forms didn't speak. 
> 
> So is the problem the web site layout,
> >or is it our own technology training? Rather than chase every entity with
> >features a few people deem inaccessible, would it not be prudent to take
> our
> >standards, whatever those may be, to the classroom, to the software
> >developers, the relevant associations raising the performance standards of
> >its students and members? 
> 
> Possibly. But on the other hand, why should blind people have to be
> especially proficient computer users to access things like a retail web
> site? There will always be people who, for whatever reason, do not have the
> opportunity to receive the 
> kind of training you're talking about. There will be others who, regardless
> of training, possess less intuition about how to operate a screen reader in
> unfamiliar circumstances. I'm not suggesting that web site developers should
> assume zero 
> training on the part of the end user; but relying on extensive training to
> guarantee accessibility automatically means some people will be excluded.
> 
> This reminds me of an experience I had a few months back. I was flying to
> Boston to visit a friend, and I wanted to reserve window seats. I was
> presented with an image map that seemed to give me this opportunity. I
> thought about how best to 
> approach the thing, made an educated guess about what to do, and
> successfully reserved the seats I wanted. (The gate agent later happily
> informed me that he'd gone ahead and moved me to bulkhead seating because of
> my dog. I told him 
> I wanted my chosen seat. He refused, claiming regs required him to put me
> there. Fortunately the flight attendant let me have the seat I'd worked so
> hard to reserve. I wish I'd filed a formal complaint about that...But I
> digress.) I later heard a 
> blind friend, who is also quite proficient with access technology,
> characterize what I assume was a similar site (possibly even the same
> airline site) as inaccessible. I personally don't believe that the fact that
> I was able to figure this out makes 
> the site accessible. A sighted user would not have to work nearly so hard to
> reserve a seat on a flight.
> 
> There will always be some people who are intimidated by the internet in
> general. These individuals will have trouble accessing the basic features of
> many web sites. (My dad is one such person, and he's not blind.) But if
> reasonably proficient 
> blind computer users can't access a site, I think it's perfectly reasonable
> to insist on modifications. We don't want an internet that is only
> accessible to those of us who have had the most opportunities.
> 
> JMO,
> 
> Angie
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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